The Joe Rogan Experience - #1137 - Duncan Trussell

Episode Date: June 27, 2018

Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, and host of his own podcast “The Duncan Trussell Family Hour” available on Spotify. http://www.duncantrussell.com/

I'm teaching Duncan the ways of a Windows laptop. I fucking love it. Mac's keyboards can go fuck themselves. Those are terrible keyboards. They're not designed for comfort and writing. This whole idea of get it thinner, man. Get it thinner and thinner. Get it so it's a piece of paper.

And it magically unfolds. It expands to the right size. Yeah. This is not too thick. Yeah. How come they can do it? How come you guys can't do it? How come you only offer one shitty-ass fucking keyboard?

Find out if your MacBook qualifies for Apple's keyboard repair program. I don't want you to repair the same shitty keyboard. I want you to make a real keyboard where you have like, it's got like a little bit of a U shape to it where your finger goes into the center. What is that called? How do they describe that? And the keys have like a little

bit of a dip to them in the middle. You feel where they are. Yeah, dimpled perhaps. You feel where they are. They have dimpled, perhaps. You feel where they are. They have travel, so your fingers know what's going on. You get tactile feedback. More tactile feedback than this little clickety-click thing, which

might as well be, you might as well be doing it on an iPad. You have an iPad keyboard, and it kind of works, but it kind of doesn't, because your fingers are all feeling the same thing every time. You want individual buttons that give you individual feedback so you don't have to think about what's happening you can just think about the words it feels like this they hired an alien at apple that forgot that humans like to push buttons we like it it feels good it feels good

they're they're ignoring like a basic human trait which is like have you seen those dumb cubes nervous people get they've got like buttons and shit and you spin it around it's it was the same thing as this thing it's like gives you this tactile little thing where you take all that extra energy and you put it in your in your stress ball you see people like to punch and press and click and switch. And that's what Apple forgot. It's like when I'm typing, man, I like that. I like in the shining. When you hear, that means I'm typing.

I like the sound, the flutter of the keys as you're writing. That fucking Apple keyboard, man. When I went in, I was so ready to buy a brand new MacBook Pro. So excited. Really excited. Mine's from like 2014 or 2015. I mean, not to like be a fucking Apple fanboy, but I will say that when I went in there with it, instead of trying to sell me the new macbook she looked at it and was like what are you doing on the thing and i'm like oh i edit sound and she was like i don't know that

you that you even need a new one outside of the fact that it's new whoever you are young lady odin blesses you odin blesses you Odin blesses you for your truth. Yeah. For your wisdom. Dude, I was so shocked. We don't need this computing power. I was stunned, man. Because I've never... That moment has kind of made me

perpetually love Apple. Because they're training their employees not to pressure sell shit, but just to actually help. They probably were out of stock. She couldn't sell you one anyway. She's like, dude, you don't even want one. She's probably quitting.

She's quitting. She's sick of her job. For the last four days, she's been telling everyone, no matter what they came in to buy, she's like, you know, you don't need this. Her boss has been saying creepy shit to her. She's been ready to quit for a while. He's an asshole. Yeah.

Yeah. No. Okay, Mark. Okay. I'm going to go out on the floor, Mark. Jessica, I've noticed your sales have gone to zero. Hey, move those new laptops, will ya? Yeah.

Sure, Mark. Mark's got a creepy wink. Yeah. Can you get away with that at work? What can you do now? If you're like, hey, Suzy, make sure you have that copy done to personnel by two. No.

Can't do that. Hell no. You can't wink and go, you definitely can't do the gun. Nope. Unless you're doing it to everybody. If you're in a meeting, you could go, no, because then you're a mass shooter. Oh! You can't do it to one person oh you can't do it to one person you can't do it to a group of people you can't make the finger gun anymore the finger gun's gone

you can't do i i you know i'm we're both we have cool jobs dude so like i have to imagine that that's gone like you know my house the finger gone's not going. The gun's not going. I shoot my dogs every day. In front of my wife, I like looking at her Cavaliers and being like, bam, bam, dead. Now what? Now what? You can't even play around anymore. I love those dogs. But it's like there's no room for new ones. Because there are crazy people that do shoot people, you can't pretend to shoot people anymore.

Dude, this is it, man. people you can't pretend to shoot people anymore dude this is it man this is exactly the fucking problem of being interconnected by technology is that we are paying for the sins of the of the small percentile of absolute dumb asses on the planet and because of that there you know you know anytime i look at a sign any sign that's got like an obvious thing in it, don't shit in the hot tub or like on the roller coaster. Don't get out of your seat. When I look at that, I think that's because of dumb, dumb, dumb. Because there might be a person who's in the roller coaster is like, oh, stand up. It'll be more fun.

Didn't mean to do a southern accent, by the way. I'm from the south. I don't think they're all dumb. This is too many people talking. There's too many people talking in this world. Didn't used to be like that. This is a new thing. For the last 10 years, people started talking.

Yeah. The average person didn't have a voice 20 years ago. There's great things to anyone having a voice. Great things. Great. Great things.

Yeah. But we're going to have to relearn human communication. Right. We can't use the old rules for today. It just can't work. It can't work.

And it's too easy to be an asshole. People got to stop seeking that out like i the lashing out at people for no reason it's just it's so crazy how many people do it you'll see someone post something and someone will be like fuck you you dumb piece of shit don't you realize that this is why this and that is why that any i you know steven kotler he's been on the show a few times sure he's awesome and they're doing he's doing this new psychedelic study psychedelics and flow states so i retweeted a tweet because he he's like they're doing research right now they need people to fill out a survey so i retweeted that to help steven

out just like ah cool yeah that's a cool thing i think psychedelics probably do induce flow states i'd like to find out for sure but within like six comments it's still up there if y'all want to look some dude wrote to me something along the lines of like you're hurting people and don't even know it that's six down it's like hurting people i can't remember what language you use but it's like what the fuck you this is a survey dude like what are you talking about like is it maybe he means by retweeting surveys that sucks because no one wants to see that on their timeline but i think he meant you're hurting people by uh demystifying and destigmatizing psychedelics. Yeah. Little do you know, you're funding cruelty.

Funding! Funding cruelty! I like how you just said, huh? Because I want the explanation, because it's like, when someone says something like that, it's so terribly, absolutely, impossibly wrong from my reality tunnel that it's like, I want to get in their reality tunnel and hear, cause that guy really, he believes it. Well, or he's a troll. It could be, he's a troll.

It could be that he's had terrible experiences with psychedelics. That's, you know, maybe he's one of those guys that had a real, you know, look, when people get really into something, they want everybody to get into it. I'm a terrible example of that. I'm telling everybody, you got to do yoga. You got to do yoga. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This happens with everything.

Oh, yeah. And people that get sober, like people that have a real problem, they have like, we all know someone who's gone off the deep end with drugs, right? When they come out of that, some folks turn into evangelists for sobriety yeah and it gets super annoying yeah and one of the things they do is they demonize all positive experiences yes that were with the same substance as their negative experience in their fucking crazy head they've decided because they had a bad trip. Every trip is bad. The millions of people tripping all over the world, taking mushrooms, finding God and love and companionship and harmony with the universe and acceptance of their mortality, all that doesn't count because Billy couldn't keep his shit together at the Pink Floyd concert

because this fucking asshole decided to eat the entire bag of mushrooms. And he tripped his balls off and was screaming. They had to take him to the hospital. And he called his ex-girlfriend and cried to her for hours. And now her boyfriend, the new boyfriend, wants to beat him up. And he doesn't even remember doing it. That guy's an idiot. There's a lot of those people out there.

A lot of them. A whole lot of them. And there's people of them a whole lot of them and there's people that just aren't geared for psychedelics for whatever reason you know there's people that are like really close to losing their shit with regular reality for sure and for them it's not a good idea it's not a good idea absolutely that's definitely something that like in my old age i want to put in like italics and underline that's what you just said because when i was younger when you're younger and you are in that evangelical part of your psychedelic life you can become like if you're not careful ridiculous and irresponsible

and you start throwing out there this like idea that is not only fundamentally wrong, it's fundamentally wrong in everything as far as I'm concerned, which is there's not really a one cure to your troubles. You know what I mean? So but with psychedelics, people think this is the answer. This is the answer. This is it. This is what we need. And it's like, well, it's part of what some people need. But if you've got manic depression, for example, if you've got bipolar, you know,

dude, I had this moment where this, some parents came up to me and were, did I tell you about this? They came in to talk to me at a show and they were like, talking about how their kid liked my podcast and it was really sad because he had been at one of my podcasts and i think he'd come on stage to ask a question or something or or and they were looking for a recording of the live show because they thought maybe they could hear him talk or get some like his laughter or something. But anyway, what happened was he, I think he had some kind of bipolar. I'm not sure what, but he's one of my friends, Raven. He's like his, he uses the term gyro. His gyro was off a little bit, you know, something was off a little bit.

But anyway, the kid went and did ayahuasca in Peru. He did a eight night or one. You know how they're doing these? Like, I don't know how they do every night or every other night. Eight night retreat, drinking the medicine every night. And then after that, went to some kind of like other shaman or some woman. I don't know who it was. I'm not sure the deets.

But then he came home and he jumped off a waterfall and killed himself because because he what had happened is he a manic he was in a manic state it triggered a manic state um and he killed himself. And that was ayahuasca. That's like the medicine. And so it's just for some reason I think some people are de-emphasizing what it means to be healed by a psychedelic or to be worked on by a psychedelic or to enter into that state. Because it's becoming, thank god uh destigmatized much more so do you remember how it was 20 years ago dude it was you couldn't even talk about it couldn't talk about it couldn't mention it it was you it was bad bad bad drugs it was heroin yeah it was on the same level as like you you if you're taking lsd that was like heroin, man.

So people look at you like you're crazy. And then there's also, you know, there's real problems that people have with being tested at work. A lot of people get tested at work and people are worried about losing their jobs. So drugs don't just become a thing where you could fuck up and, you know, and get addicted to them. But now they become a thing that can take away your livelihood. Take away your livelihood. They check your pee. They put this state of paranoia on their employees. Just imagine that feeling. You're working for some office.

You probably don't dig the gig anyway. You don't even like it. And they have to check your piss every now and then. They don't let you know when. Duncan, can I see you for a moment? Hi, Duncan. It's that time of the year. Random drug test. Okay. So I'm just going to have to go with you and watch you pull your penis out and put it into

this cup and give me a little sample of your body fluids. Okay, baby. Okay? Yeah. Whatever you want. What if that didn't work anymore? What if they figured a way around that so they had to collect your shit? I need to see you shit.

Yeah. I need to see your asshole open up. And I need to see that tube come out into see your asshole open up and i need to see that tube come out into this tupperware container yeah i'm gonna be there yeah that'd be thank god in a way thank god that's how they detect drugs thank god it's through the piss thank god like thank god it's not like you you know like probably i don't know this for sure but i bet every asshole has a thumbprint like you know everybody has a different thumbprint. I bet, like, if you took asshole prints, every human would also have, like, a different asshole print.

And, like... Can you imagine if that was true? If, like, you could see in fingerprints, like, oh, look, it gives you the ingredients. This guy's, like, 60% asshole. It says in it. We just didn't look at this. No, I don't mean asshole. I mean the literal asshole.

Oh. Like, if you take a person's asshole and put like, and you're like. Oh, like an asshole print, like a retina scan. Put it on ink. Yeah. Like a retina scan. It's the brown eye retina scan. Everyone.

Wow. For sure. Probably the asshole has a thumbprint. It's just like. Probably for sure. For sure. So if like you took psychedelics and it caused that thumbprint to change a little bit and that's how they told words they don't even look at your shit you just

have to they have to look at like your they have to scan your ass and like oh the print changed you didn't mescaline oh that's we're lucky it's in the piss but yeah but also if you really think about the fact that we are in a world where people have to go to work to do a job that by the way man if there is a dude you need to get on this podcast and there's a book that you would love david graber wrote this book called bullshit jobs this guy is a fucking genius man and this book bullshit jobs breaks down the phenomena of uh how many many people are working in jobs that don't do anything for the world or the company they're working for. And it's not like this judgmental thing where he's like, yeah, that's a bullshit job. You're a blah, blah, blah.

He's like an anthropologist, so he's very precise. But one of the qualifications for your job to be a bullshit job is, you know, that it's really kind of a worthless job. It's not really doing anything. And like companies have gotten so fucking big that they end up having like departments or people running departments or extra employees that don't really need to be there at all. And they have to pretend to work. That's what he writes about. He writes that if you really want to torture a person, not only give them the job of pouring a glass of water in an empty glass and pouring it back, but then add to it that they have to deceive their boss into thinking that they're like doing an important job or they lose their job so these not only are these like some

corporations and companies scanning your piss to see if you're taking a substance that is allowing you to connect with home, what you actually are, they are also demanding that you spend many hours a day lying to them that you're doing work that you're not doing. If you're fucking efficient, you know, and this is another thing Graber writes about, forgive me, David Graber, if in any way Iconstrued this, I read your writings stoned. But the other fucking element to it that is absolutely atrocious and fucking horrible is that these substances are connecting us to home. They don't want us to be in those states and they're asking us to fucking

lie all day. And you know what psychedelic means? The etymology of psychedelic? us to home, they don't want us to be in those states and they're asking us to fucking lie all day. And you know what psychedelic means? The etymology of psychedelic? No. It means mind manifesting or soul manifesting, right? So a psychedelic connects us potentially with the truth, what we are, identity right and these companies they're asking us to lie to be the opposite of our identities to wear weird a suit or some kind of dress code and to sit in a desk where because

you're efficient you get your job done in 45 minutes and for the next six hours you got to sit and type and pretend that you're working knowing it you're a person and knowing that this is like unethical. But if you if you like go and tell your boss, hey, man, I don't really have much to do. You might get fired. The boss might like in the book, he cites one person because he did like a survey and he cites one person who went to her boss and she's like hey i can finish my job in two hours i need can i have other stuff to do and her boss is like don't talk about that stay quiet about that oh yeah man that's the fucking world we're in right now because of automation there's less to do computers are making shit fast it's why are we we're working the exact same amount of time we were when there were no computers?

But you have to be there to get paid. And you have to act like you're doing something or they can you. Yeah. So many people right now are doing just that while they're listening to this. A lot. A lot. And by the way. If you had to guess, what percentage of people are listening right now that are really supposed to be doing some bullshit job?

And they're kind of sitting in front of their keyboard with earbuds on, just barely paying attention, trying not to get caught looking at porn. Yeah. Probably all over the planet, over a million. Over a million in the workforce, probably. When do you think companies had to put in rules that you can't look at porn at work like that wasn't a thing in the 70s it wasn't a thing in the 80s right it wasn't a thing in the 90s right then all of a sudden you could just find porn online and people they have a work computer that's hooked up to the internet like when did

companies start going oh yeah we didn't know about that yeah you can't look at that dude i mean i'm sure it started with like penthouse right like you when when they had penthouse like penthouse magazine like when you had fucking like you know yeah for sure you couldn't bring your you couldn't bring your penthouse your fucking hustler to work that's's true. But the, but looking at something online is so much easier than going to the store and getting a hustler. Like the access is universal, instantaneous. Everyone has the,

the ability to just go and download it. You know, if we're going to like ask questions that are impossible to answer, like how many people right now do you think listening to the podcast or in their bullshit job jerking off the porn while they listen? At least one dude. Yeah. answers like how many people right now do you think listening to the podcast are in their bullshit job jerking off to porn while they listen at least one dude yeah for sure that's what dudes do yeah i mean because they can get away with it they jerk off especially a guy with a bad job who could find a way to jerk off somewhere yeah let me just keep five minutes

in this bathroom with jerk off just so i don't have to think about this stupid fucking job. Dude, come on. That's like sexual assault. I don't think it is. Jerking off in an office? Not in the... What if you scream? If like...

And everyone knows. You're going to go, hey, I'm going to go in there. I'm going to jerk off. And when I come, I scream. That's sexual assault. Oh, for sure. Well, that is. I fucking feel like suing you right now man that's fucked up

you imagine you work with some guy and he's like 300 pounds and you're like 150 pounds and you're like hey man uh i need to uh figure out how to fix this computer uh we're gonna have to unplug everything for a while he goes okay cool i'm gonna go in the bathroom and i'm gonna jerk off and when i come, I scream. Dude, I don't know why you even have to add the scream to it. It's like, I mean, I think. What I'm saying is just even for a dude, it's a terrible prospect. I think it's interesting too because when you consider like the act of shitting versus the act of jerking off is like far more like repulsive.

You're expelling like foul smelling toxins from your body into the toilet. And if you say to your friend, Hey, I gotta go take a shit, man. Your friend's probably going to be like, well, you didn't need to tell me that.

Like, okay. I don't, but, but your friend's not going to be like, whoa, dude, what?

And yet jerking off really, if you think about it, it's like you're giving yourself a hand massage that ends with like a little spray of like cream coming out. Horrific. It's like, but in our culture, no, no, don't do it at the office. My God, John. Don't do it here, John. I'm just picturing John

just with an itchy trigger finger, just ready to reach into his pants. No. No. No. John? No, did you do it again, John? It's a gross relationship

that the worker has now with the corporation, and it's an unnatural relationship, and it's a relationship that seems to have dehumanized people to the point of being automatons that don't have a sex drive, that don't deserve to be able to explore their consciousness. And this is a real problem. Do you know what Ari told me? What? You know, Ari studied

the Talmud and did it for like 12 hours a day when he was a young man. Yeah. He told me there was one passage where in one of the ancient texts where it was talking about battling a dragon and he said, he's like, this

doesn't make sense because everything in here is supposed to be a story that actually happened like what is this dragon oh the dragon is a metaphor for masturbation they tell him so the dragon that takes away young boys this is it is it is a metaphor for masturbation did you talk about this on the podcast? Yes. Dude, it's, it's, you know, Ari knows about as much as anyone you're ever going to meet about Orthodox Jewish traditions and the, the, you know, the religion and the texts. He really did study that shit every day, 12 hours a day for years. In Israel, right? Yeah. Yeah. So when he tells you about it, he got the

actual translation of the metaphor from a guy who's a scholar. Yeah, dude. Yeah. That's a bad metaphor. It's a dragon. I think if I wanted, for whatever reason, to dissuade people from jerking off, I could come up with a way better

thing than a dragon to represent it. There'd be some other thing like a – I don't know, man. What's like a – what would be like the creature version of a rolled up ball of dried cum that you've thrown next to your bed and someone walks into your bedroom and sees the rolled up ball of dried cum Kleenex and it's just kind of like, that's gross. You didn't clean up your cum Kleenex. It would be like one of them Ghostbuster villains. Right.

Like some sort of plasma thing that just jizzes all over you. Yeah. You know, they'd get Ghostbustered. What do you think about the anti-fap movement? Anti-fap movement? Fap, F-A-P. Oh, no jerking off? Yeah.

No fap, not anti-fap. Anti-fap movement? Fap. F-A-P. Oh, no jerking off? Yeah. No fap. Not anti-fap. Anti-fap's a different movement. Well, there's good and bad. The good thing is sex will be way more pleasurable. The bad is it'll be way more desirable. So, like, to mitigate your sexual urges. So you don't do stupid things and hang out with stupid people

and have sex with people you don't really like but you think are hot because you're horny. Yeah. And they're willing, which is a lot of people. They get roped up in these relationships with these guys and gals that they're not really in love with, but they like to fuck. Right. You know? What do you think, it's like,

what do you think about it? Well, like, I think that there, you know what I, what, something I always think back on is when you were sponsored by fleshlight. And this is when we were doing the podcast from your house and I,

and you'd come to do your podcast and you'd walk away with a fleshlight. So I ended up with like, I don't know, three or four flashlights. And like at first I just wanted, like you had different types. And at first I just went for like, oh, the one that looks like a pussy. Right? But then like, you know, it's like, oh, I got that one. But then you had like one that was like, I don't know, man, like some kind of like gargoyle alien thing.

It was really not. Blue or something. It was really fucking weird, man. But anyway, you know, I fucked those things. And when I think back to it, it's like the first time I did it, it tricked my brain. Yeah. The second time or the third time I did it, it wasn't getting the same effect. Whereas when I have sex with a human, it's a completely different. It feels like it's a completely different series of chemicals that must be being released in my mind.

Yeah. You're uniting with someone. You're bonding with someone. You certainly get that oxytocin from orgasming together. Yeah. That bonds people so i've always thought uh generally like if i'm in a period in my life where i'm jerking off a lot it's like usually like there's something imbalanced in there like i don't mean to apply like a sin to it at all i'm just saying like

personally yeah it feels a little dissipative when you're doing it a lot there is this i don't know no i completely agree but that's the balance but the balance is also like you don't want to just be horny all the time no because when you're horny you make shitty decisions so you like yeah you'll date someone just for sex yeah well you need to like i mean i think that there is something to be said for figuring out how to uh deal with like the that kind of energy like if so that's an that's an energetic state like if suddenly you get being horny is an energetic state yeah it's energy like if you're really horny and you sit and like watch the the feeling itself it's electrical like you can feel it moving around in your body. It can almost make you twitchy a little bit.

It's like a very potent energetic state. So theoretically, instead of trying to get, the question would be rather, is there a way to release that energy that isn't through the tip of my dick in the form of DNA? Is there a way for me to release that energy in other ways or is the only way, the only valve on that to come? That's a question.

What do you think? I think there's when this natural buildup happens, it makes people more easily aroused. It makes people more concentrating on sex and I think that it that can put you out of balance too you can be put out of balance both by too much masturbation you can definitely be put out of balance by too much desire for sex yeah cuz you're just horny sure you just take care of it yourself and you'd be relieved and then you could think clear you know i think the body needs a balance right that's why i'm a big proponent of exercise i'm a big proponent of meditation

and mindfulness and just trying to i mean it's not that's all those are toxic words right now meditation and mindfulness are they yeah they've been thrown around by too many knuckleheads like there's something about it that it's like oh that's kind of a bullshitty word you're kind of yeah you know what i mean you're like oh i'm just all about mindfulness like oh you're annoying that's what you are dude you're the annoying guy i i saw a book just yesterday in one of these like boutique stores someone had made a sarcastic kids book called the grown-ups guide to mindfulness and whoever wrote that fucking book hates the word mindful hate this has got definitely has an obnoxious friend who's into mindfulness because the the book is just like a first of all the guy doesn't seem to really understand what it is in the book like it's uh he seems a little confused

about the nature of it but uh and i remember looking at that and being like oh i guess people are getting annoyed with the word mindfulness now, like the pendulum swinging that way. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those words that people love to say. It sounds good, and it makes you seem like a spiritual person. So when a word gets moved around and used too much, like something happens to it where it gets icky. Yeah.

Because it's like it becomes popular popular and then people start using it. And then you see like a bunch of phony guru type dudes at seminars using it. What's important here is mindfulness. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's very important. You know, there's like typically unique behaviors. You know what I mean?

Yes. Especially when it comes to like people that are full of shit. There's like a typical uniqueness. comes to like people that are full of shit there's like a typical uniqueness like there's just a thing that a lot of people adopt and it sounds like everyone else yeah and it's just a way that people do it and uh i i hope you understand like what are you doing sure why are you doing that yeah you're adopting this weird funky thing and you know i think it's really important that we practice mindfulness it falls into that it falls into that even though it's an excellent practice well it's very important but people you know it's called an um i i i just i now i took on for lack of better word i'm working

with a actual uh teacher of the kagu lineage of buddhism which is like Chogyam Trungpa's lineage of Buddhism. And he's amazing. And he's teaching me mindfulness meditation practice. This guy, David Nickturn. How does he deal with masturbation? What's cool about him is if you asked him, he would tell you. He would tell you? There's no like, you know, that he wouldn't be like, well, how dare you ask me that question?

Right. But I think that probably, I can't answer for him. I think it would fall in line with what you're saying with balance, you know, which is that it's really like sort of the concept with it is the thing that's happening right now, whatever it may be. You can just, you know, apply mindfulness to it. You could apply like a being in the moment and being with the thing that's happening right now. And so the thing he's teaching me, I love it so much, dude, because it isn't isn't woo-woo-y or like out there crazy. It's literally this very simple way that you meditate,

the way that you sit, which is you sit on a cushion, you put your hands on your knees and you sit back. And the word they use in this Kagu lineage for it is the warrior pose. And what that means is that it's a kind of confidence. It's the way like people who are like confident sit. So you sit like that when you're meditating, your legs across, you sit in a chair if you want. And you look straight ahead about eight feet, nine feet. And you watch your breath. And when you're going to your thoughts,

which happens, of course, you go, you think, thinking, and then you go back to your breath. That's it. You say thinking? You don't say it, you think it. Think, thinking. Thinking, just so,

because what's all these, so like what you start realizing when you start this practice, and full disclosure here, man, you know me, Joe. I have problems with discipline, and I have problems with sticking to stuff over and over again. And working with this guy has been incredible because it's actually getting me to do it. But still, I have like, I did it today, didn't do it yesterday. I don't want to get out there with some nonsense that I'm like spending all day long meditating. But what you start seeing is when you're doing it,

is you realize like, oh, there's a cycle happening in my consciousness, in my mind. There's a cycle that's happening in my life, which is that I kind of blink into the moment, following the breath, and I blink out of the moment into the thought realm, right? We're like little fireflies. We flicker into the moment. We're here. Now we're here. We're not lost in our thoughts. We're not thinking about the next thing we're going to say. We're not thinking about the next thing we're going to do. We're just here in this moment. And then we're off, you know, off and running, like thinking about the bills, thinking about the girl, thinking about the thing, thinking about that. And then that leads to another thought and another thought. Next thing you know,

you've been thinking for three years straight, you know what I mean? Or three minutes or five hours or whatever. And then you come back and that's the cycle. This is a cycle that happens so mindfulness is starting to pay attention and and and and to that cycle but and and the breathing thing is kind of like a respiratory mnemonic device which is that suddenly what's been happening to me now is i'll just be like walking down the street and then notice my breath. Oh, shit. I'm back. Oh, I'm here.

I was totally up in my head. Oh, I'm back. That was thinking, you know. That's all. It's very, very, very simple. But he's just teaching me the basic shit right now. It does, I think, get pretty interesting. On my own, thinking about my own life and observing other people's lives,

I've come up with this thing that I bring up all the time, the momentum of your past. Like so many people, as they're going down the street, so many people, as they're interacting with people, they're carrying the momentum of all the fucked up things that are going on. Bills that they have to pay and things that they forgot to do and a career they never chased and a girl they never called back and a thing that they lied about and things that they forgot to do and a career they never chased and a girl they never called back and a thing that they lied about and a thing they stole and the reason why they got fired from work and maybe if i call my boss i'll get my and all this craziness you're bringing with you into everything yeah and that is so hard to escape it's so hard for people to escape the momentum of the

past you know people sort of uh they get into this thing of defining themselves by failures, by past failures, and never just learning from them. Go, oh, I'm that fucking loser. It's a real problem. It's a real problem with people to be able to learn from something and to just look at yourself.

And it's painful to look at yourself. So everybody wants to pretend that they didn't do anything wrong. Everybody else is an asshole. Yes. Yeah, and so what you're doing by doing that is you're stunting your own growth. You feel like you're protecting yourself

because you're protecting your ego. You're like, you know, I didn't do anything wrong. Fuck him. He's the asshole. But you know you could have avoided that. You know you could have done better. Yeah. Like, everybody has moments like that in their life.

The more you avoid those and don't take credit for the ones that you actually fucked up, the more you actually hurt yourself in this ironic thing, because it seems like you're protecting yourself. No, you're, I'm exonerating myself from guilt. Fuck it. It wasn't me. I didn't do it. But you know, you did.

So in your head, you're the guy who lies about making mistakes instead of you're the guy who mans up to your mistakes, realizes it was a mistake, and then vows to do better. Yeah, man. That's beautiful. It's beautiful. You just have to be able to say you're wrong. You have to be able to say I'm sorry. Yeah. You have to be able to – and you got to be able to look at yourself like all the time, not just when you fuck up because you can avoid some of those fuck ups.

Just look at yourself critically along the time. Not just when you fuck up because you can avoid some of those fuck ups. Just look at yourself critically along the way. But we all have to understand that we are all an evolving process. Like I had this conversation with Dennis McKenna. It's a crazy conversation

because it's a ridiculous thing to say. But he was talking about Donald Trump and I was saying, isn't it possible that he could grow and learn?

Like why do we give up on people? Why does a guy get to a certain age and we say, oh, he's 60. He's set in his ways. He's 70. He'll never change. He'll never evolve. You don't ever say that about a 20-year-old. You see some asshole who's a 20-year-old.

You say, he just needs discipline. He just needs love. He finds the right people in his life, right person to love. He'll be okay. He's going to mature. his life, right person to love. He'll be okay. He's going to mature, and eventually he's going to be a solid man. But you get to a certain age, we just give up on you. We're just like, you're still alive, but you've passed the cycle that I usually enjoy people to be ready to sort of interact as valuable, creative, loving members of society. You pass that by.

You're still thinking about yourself only deep into your 60s. This is stupid shit. This is shit you're supposed to do when you're 17. By the time you're 7D, you're supposed to be going, oh my god, I don't have much time left. Oh my god, what have I done while I'm here? What is important? What do I feel the best about? I feel the best about love

and companionship and friendship and real warmth and interaction between people that you care about. This money thing, man, this is not – you can't keep chasing this. You can't keep chasing power. You can't keep chasing money. You're going to reach a point where it's not going to matter because you're going to die. So you really want to be that guy from the bumper sticker, he who dies the most toys wins?

Because this is literally what you're working towards. You're working towards a joke. Yeah. Because this is literally what you're working towards. You're working towards a joke. Yeah. Well, can I – one thing I would add to that is that – so what you're saying here, and you're right, man. But the one thing I think I disagree with you on is that you're creating a situation where that's it.

You die and that's it. The momentum – it's like the momentum goes into a black hole. It's gone. Like the momentum has been like, is disintegrated, vanishes that momentum, right? But the way I've been taught is that actually that momentum keeps going. That momentum doesn't just stop because your body stops, right?

So that momentum keeps going. And in fact, what's really beautiful is like, and it's good that you call it momentum. That's exactly what it is. It's what it feels like with me. It's a tendency. Yes. We have a tendency towards a certain thing.

We have proclivities and tendencies and habituations. And if you just kind of like, if you put you and me in a room and put a bunch of different objects on the floor, right, you're going to go towards something and I'm going to go towards something else, right? You're going to go towards something and I'm going to go towards something else, right? You know, if there's fucking VR goggles and a goddamn badass, like some kind of like badass compound bow manufactured at fucking DARPA,

you know what I mean? And there's VR goggles manufactured by DARPA. I don't know. I'm going for the VR goggles. You're probably going to go for the cross or the bow, right? So we have proclivities. That's the momentum, right? That is one way you can understand what karma is, right?

So that's the momentum. So that thing that you've got right now, when you begin to really look at it and think about it, you could ask yourself, when did this start, this momentum, right? When did these proclivities and tendencies and things that I'm being sort of pushed towards, when did they start? And a lot of it is your parents taught you certain things. Well, let's talk about a super common one that's horrible, cigarettes.

You got hooked by that bug. Ari got hooked by that bug. Red Band's still hooked. Joey Diaz kicked it you know that's a that's a really really really common one man that sort of defines people i'm that guy who smokes i'm gonna walk into this store and even though i know these things cause cancer i'm gonna buy a pack i'm gonna go outside and i can't wait to light it up i'm just not even thinking about that right now man i'm trying to relax and you get that thing in your mouth. There you go. And you, you take that drag and you feel that cancer causing chemical rush and you're like, I'll take it. I'm all right today. No cancer there. And you take a

big, deep breath and you blow it out and you look at the other fellow cancer Dodgers and they're just looking at you and smoking together and everybody just they're just really good at dodging cancer so you know another one way you could actually say it is like every time you do that you're planting a seed so every time you smoke a cigarette you could imagine that you have this field right and the field is your health and in that field anytime you like exercise or do something you know decide instead of eating the fucking ice cream you're gonna eat the seaweed chips or like anytime you do that you could just imagine obviously it's not the way it works exactly but you could think i'm planting a seed in this field right so if i keep

planting certain types of seeds in any type of field and i cultivate those seeds, they're going to grow into something, right? That's karma. So for a person, when the cancer comes, when the muscles come, when the failure comes, when the success comes, if you look at that moment, you realize this is actually the flowering of a thing that's been growing for a very long time inside of me or in the world or in time so that's the idea people already have within them planted all of these seeds that haven't haven't been expressed yet into time because they're still inside of them like the dude with the like imagine a guy with the guy who like shot the guy because he had road rage you know that guy for years had a really bad anger disorder and he knew it you know there he would look he would think at times in this very

calmest moments i sure get really angry all the time i don't know if this is normal right a lot of those people were beaten when they were kids that's it dude yeah super common yeah yeah super common trauma so yeah man that's like cigarette smoking any kind of behavior that like is risky or over time produces some kind of negative result it's just planting seeds yeah you know and so the momentum you're experiencing right now is the sum total of all those fucking seeds that you planted and that were planted inside of you over the course of your life. That's what you are. You're like a walking field of karma at varying stages of growth, growing varying types of vegetations. And some are good and some are bad.

But it's like that's what you are right now and what's beautiful about that is that means that you can start cultivating that field you know you don't have to just like let it grow wild and pretend every time you smoke a cigarette or do some stupid shit you're like an unconscious farmer you know right i just throw seeds everywhere oh my god what i can't believe i'm drinking and driving again but i gotta get home there you oh shit oh my god the dui plant grew again in the field i wonder why that thing keeps growing in my field well because you keep fucking drinking and driving dude the dui DUI plant. Oh my God. Yeah.

You can cultivate it. That's what's beautiful about it. You can cultivate the field. You don't have to let it just have fucking weird random weeds spring up. They'll let a patch or two have some weeds because those are fun. Imagine spending that tobacco money. Imagine spending that money thinking about all that cancer. Just spending all that money. God. Just buying a big castle about all that cancer. Just spending all that money.

God. Just buying a big castle with all that cancer money. Look at it all. Castle cancer. Hey, the people want it. They want it. In this country,

you've got the freedom to buy whatever you want. Well, yeah, right. I mean, it's a person's choice, but to get back to what you were just saying, the ethics of the fucking thing, how about this? How many people who run

big tobacco own stock in companies that make chemotherapy drugs? There's a big question. Like, how many of those people in their portfolio that they barely know about, they're like, well, you know, like, a really big investment these days is

gene therapy for cancer. Really? Is cancer out of hand these days? Huh therapy for cancer. Really? Is cancer out of hand these days? Huh? Really interesting. I wonder what could be going wrong. The problem with cigarettes is that they're addictive. Not just that they kill you, but that they're addictive.

Like, I've smoked a cigarette before, and it gives you a head rush. You get, like, a nice little weird rush. And also the other problem is nicotine is a medicine and it has like some health benefits if used in the right way and also it's a nootropic so it's like it's not just like it gives you a rush, it's like

it's somehow focusing you a little bit. Stephen King said that was one of the most difficult things when he quit smoking was not having one while he writes. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's the nature of addiction. It's like kudzu does to trees.

It wraps around your favorite thing in life and tricks you. What's kudzu? Kudzu is a plant that was introduced from Japan and I think from Japan into the south. Kudzu is a plant that was introduced from Japan and I think from Japan into the south. And it's just a growing vine that when it wraps around trees and it covers them up completely so the trees can't get any sun and the trees just die. Yeah, it wasn't native to the United States. So sometimes, I don't know, maybe they took care of kudzu. But when I was a kid, you would drive by these beautiful forests where the trees were just covered in fucking kudzu.

Yeah, like that. Holy shit, dude. Yeah. That's crazy. It's like they got eaten by other plants. That's right, man. And those trees are dying. They can't get the sun.

Oh, my God. That's insane. Yeah. And that's a great metaphor for addiction. What? Yeah. That is a perfect metaphor. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's's insane how did i not know about this i don't know it definitely seems like something you know about look it looks like they're alive it looks like people

dude there is just too much to know there's too much cool shit a lot of shit out there too much look at that go to the one above that no above that above that one right above that there that one look at that yeah look how green that is that's insane yeah dude that does something weird to your brain beautiful it's like it makes you feel like you're like you're on a drug yeah like if you were standing there and it was that green and that like vibrant you'd be like oh my god yep yeah you would it would feel so good when do you ever see anything that looks like that? I say let those fuckers take over let the kudzu take over. Those bitch ass trees can't fight off the kudzu They don't deserve to live. They have to fucking evolve these kudzu are cooler

They're offering you a cooler look, but here's what hey you want to look at your boring ass fucking gray bark Yeah, bullshit leaves on the ground or how about we just take over everything motherfucker. We cover the floor. It's like a carpet. We cover the floor and the hillsides and all the trees. Everything. Green as fuck. What kind of green? Like flow green, man.

Like vibrant flow green. If you smoke weed there, you're going to trip balls. Yeah, look at that. What is that? It covered its statue? Is that a golf statue? I think that's just a telephone pole. A light pole. It seems like someone could have sculpted that a little bit, though.

Maybe. Or maybe it's just really covering a light pole. Yeah. Yeah, cut to, man. There you go. So that's like a really funny thing that like alcoholics will get their alcoholism wound up in their social life or like their creativity, their creative cycle. So they will think like, fuck, man, without the booze, I don't think I'm going to be able to write as well.

Right. Or, you know, whatever it is, like mostly it's just people have this a really smart way to avoid getting healthier or the learning curve associated with getting healthier and it's a really intelligent trick to play on yourself which is to imagine that you know whatever it may be that's currently out of balance in your life if you remove that you're not gonna be able to be as good as person you know there's a lot of alcoholics out there, performers who think, oh, if I don't drink, I got to have a beer on stage, man. Or like where it gets hardcore is when it's like actually fucking wrapped up in the art publicly.

Like, I don't know if you're aware of this rapper who died named Lil Peep. You know about Lil Peep? I heard about him. Yeah. In one of his videos, it just shows like the floor of his car, just pill bottles scattered everywhere. Right. So like part of the identity he was projecting into the world involved like the romanticization of addiction to pharmaceutical medications right and so that's where it gets real or like big comics when all their jokes are about being fat

yeah and if they so so they they don't only have to like worry about like you know being fat they have to worry about if i got healthy i don't know if my jokes are going to work anymore. Yeah. So you know what I mean? It's like that's how insidious it can get. Yeah, that's a good one. That one does creep in. I actually heard Kevin James.

I heard someone say that to him. You lose weight, you're losing rolls. God, someone just told me it's like you either need to lose 15 pounds or gain 15 pounds if you want to get in the movies. I don't remember who said that. But it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, you become this like character or something like that. And the next thing you know, your fucking addiction is like just riding you around like a horse whispering in your ear. Without me, you won't know where to go. And now you're fucked you're fucked

yeah i'm your comfort blanket yeah yeah when you're all alone when you're drinking alone in your hotel room dark that's dark but then when you get into it too when you're not just drinking alone but you're like telling stories to yourself celebrating it you're pretending anytime you find yourself pretending you're fucking hunter s thompson look out baby yeah if you get a cigarette holder yeah yeah unless you're writing like him yeah you ain't hunter s thompson all right yeah you're having fun no doubt but i know in my life like the times where i've been like it's kind of like hunter s thompson it's like, you need to go to bed. Like, stop.

You're like, you're tricking yourself. Now, you know, that's all. Just don't trick yourself. By the way, if you want to be a self-destructive alcoholic, drug addict, whatever it is, be that thing. But don't fool yourself into thinking that's not what you're doing. It's romantic. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't like as you're plummeting towards splattering all over the fucking ground, pretend that you're flying towards the earth. Well, maybe you could. Maybe that's actually a cool way to die. Maybe that's a good way to die. Yeah. That's a good way to think about it. Right before impact. Maybe that's the water tower guy did.

Yeah, dude. Maybe so. right before impact maybe that's the water tower guy did yeah dude maybe so i but i mean who knows what you see when you do eight days of ayahuasca who knows what you see that seems like eight days of any potent psychedelic i've never done that i've never done more than one day in a row i've done one day in a row take a break maybe a little pot the next day sure and then i don't do anything for like months that's how i've always done it i've never done like right big session followed by big session yeah yeah i you know we can only speculate i don't know exactly what that would be like i mean i can imagine i couldn't imagine dude i had this crazy like idea crazy idea now this is a lens i don't know if it's

true or not but obviously it's probably not true but i got this crazy idea that like and again like this is the with you i could just say this and i don't have to preface it but since people listen to your podcast i have to preface it by saying i do not believe this i am not going insane but this is a fun thing to think about you know right it's okay to imagine shit in your mind it's okay like you can imagine stuff but so i was thinking like inspiration right specifically i was thinking like jr tolkien when you read lord of the rings it's like that guy went over there. That writing is so beautiful and so perfect and so like interdimensional, extra dimensional. It's fucking old.

And it's beautiful, his writing. Yeah. And I was thinking, oh, that guy, Tolkien, that inspiration is outflow from the DMT realm into this dimension through the processor of his meat computer. And this is like a kind of drip coming out of a dam, right? The dam is something that's been constructed by power structures who want to keep that realm out of here, right? And so over there, you get

usually a kind of message, right? And the message is usually something along the lines of, we need to love each other. We could love each other here. There's something more important than money. That's to really be very reductive about it but some version of that story that usually involves some kind of desire to no longer harm people or to reduce suffering or to be a better person or however you want to put it right yeah so there's a dam that's been built and the dam is built by the people who scan your piss for LSD. It's people who have created an intentional legal obstruction between one realm and the other, which is the realm McKenna called hyperspace in the realm that we're currently existing in, which is where there's a lot of scientific materialism, where people only believe that there is only matter here. There's only matter.

That's it. There's nothing else. No spirit, no soul, right? The gatekeepers. The gatekeepers. I used to think of them as gatekeepers. Now I think of them as dam builders, right? Dam builders.

And what happens is, from time to time, a big crack in the dam opens up, right? is from time to time, a big crack in the dam opens up, right? That's when someone like fucking Martin Luther King appears and is standing in front of so many people telling them, I think that we're all the same, is what I think. I think we're all the same. And he's doing it in this very charismatic, beautiful way, right? Yeah. That's a big fucking crack in the dam

because over on this side of things, they don't want us to be all the same. They want us to be separated by a lot of different fucking things. They don't want us to be all the same over here. So the cracks in the dam open up, and the big cracks, the little cracks they're like the good art the good poetry the great movies the good the inspiration and now what's happening because of the fucking internet is all these fucking cracks in the dam are opening up they

can't seal them up anymore it's like you can't seal the fucking dam anymore and the singularity that mckenna was talking about the apocalypse which actually means lifting of the veil what that is is when the dam reaches like a point where the structural integrity has been permanently compromised and the dmt realm flows into this dimension in the form of some kind of technology that either unifies all of us or like rips a hole literally into whatever that membrane is that separates us from the infinite. And that is what, for whatever reason over in this dimension,

people have been trying to stop. Cause it impedes progress in terms of making money, building businesses. You can't be building businesses if people are doing LSD on their breaks. I don't think that's true. I think you could run a wonderful business. No, no, no. They're going to come back, and they're not going to be concerned with productivity. Well, they're not going to be.

No, no, no. If we get a group of people together and start building something amazing, not for money. Oh, no. I'm just being facetious. Oh, I know. It certainly can be done. I'm arguing with the devil's advocate. Okay, let me play the devil.

Okay, nice to meet you, finally. Can I have my soul back? No. Damn it. This whole thing of you exploring hyper-dimensional space and all that stuff, all that does is make you stupider, and you show up at work, work and you're less disciplined and you're not interested in getting the job done. Okay. This company is built on teamwork.

Okay. And it's built on everyone pulling their weight. Now, if you're off fucking off in hyperspace from Friday night to Sunday morning and you barely get six hours sleep over the weekend, you show up Monday, I'm going to test your piss. Okay? Yeah. And if I find psilocybin in there or anything else fucking squirrely.

Do you mind if I show you David Nutt's, Professor David Nutt's study on the Lancet about the dangers of the variety of drugs? I'm talking to the devil here. Do you mind if I show you this? Please do. If you notice, sir, on this chart, again, published in the Lancet, it was peer-reviewed. This is a very important study. Professor David Nutt, of course, has since, I think, been dis, psilocybin is considered the least harmful of mind-altering...

I'm not interested in harmful, sir. I'm interested in productivity. I want this place to run fast. We're in competition, and we're losing jobs overseas. Do you know they're going to start to make Harley motherfucking Davidson motorcycles in Thailand? Yes, sir. Yeah. What kind of shit is that?

Huh? It's a goddamn American bike. And they're making it over in fucking Asia. Why? Because the people in the factory over here didn't kick ass. Okay? They're over in the fucking park taking their magic mushrooms and tripping balls when they should be thinking about how to keep this company active. This company feeds and houses 150 families.

You understand that? Yes, sir. Now it's 100. Are you happy? No. You still want to fucking raise? Sir, before I forget, I picked up your prescription for Oxycontin. Speed!

Oxycontin. I'm on speed, motherfucker. I don't take none of that Oxy bullshit. That's for pussies. Yeah, you're on Adderall. You're on methamphetamine. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, right.

So devil and devil's eye. So, right. So the answer to it is that, oh, I'm talking to you. Oh, well, here's the problem, sir. You don't realize this, but you're kind of a low-level priest in a religion that is spread far and wide. East in a religion that is spread far and wide. And in this religion, it's not really the money that you're interested in as much as it is the power, because you've become a servant of a being called the Demiurge, which is essentially attempting to create a sort of authoritarian hierarchy in this particular dimension that's been separated from another

place known as the galactic, you can call it whatever the fuck you want, but it's the aliens. It's a galactic civilization that is about to pour into this civilization. And so it really doesn't matter what you do, because within the next 20 or 30 years through technology and through the unification of people because of that technology, you're going to really doesn't matter what you do because within the next 20 or 30 years through technology and through the unification of people because of that technology you're gonna either come to our side or go completely insane okay the counter that of course is the only way you're gonna get there you fucking lazy hippies is if we make you go to work and we get shit done and you buy things and you keep this fucking

country's economy healthy that way the technology innovates that way we make the hyperspace gateway you lazy fucking hippies tripping balls on your lawn furniture you're not creating shit you show up for work on time you get the job done

eventually we'll get our portal can I just address something you just said Satan on time now this is a very funny term And eventually we'll get our portal. Well, it sounds, okay. Can I just address something you just said, Satan? Yes. On time. Now, this is a very funny term. Thank God I'm reading David Grave.

Here's a great term, on time, right? So like, boss, the problem is that like the thing you're doing with time or being on time, that's a relatively new imposition into society. And it started with clock towers. During the Industrial Revolution, they put clock towers up so that people always knew what time it was so they wouldn't be late for going to work in a factory, you see. There was a time when people weren't, like, obsessed with their fucking watch because the idea that you could sell time. Here's what it is sir you think you and i've entered into a contract where for some ridiculous reason i've agreed to sell you eight hours of time my time per day it's essentially a form of um slavery it's a kind of like slavery except i get to go free for a certain amount of hours per week. Indentured servitude.

Yeah, we can call it that with like less of the power. I can leave anytime I want. Indentured servants, I don't think they could because they were kind of trapped until they paid off. Certain jobs are kind of trapped. Well, you could quit most jobs. I mean, that's kind of the rationalization that people use is they're like, you can leave anytime you want, bud. You can leave anytime you want, bud. You can leave anytime you want. The hard jobs are those jobs where people work for salary and their time is just whatever the project takes.

Like, do you ever talk to somebody who works on video games? Right. No. I've met very few people. I mean, I've met a few, but it's like they don't work in the big companies. Dude, the hours that they put in before a video game is released is insane. A lot of them just sleep in the offices. They're working 16 hours a day just coding.

They're all living on top of each other. Yeah. Dude. Brutal. Dude. Brutal. Brutal, yeah, brutal. That's not a job.

You're asking for someone's whole life. That's right. You're asking for the whole life Yeah, you occasionally can get away from me and go camping. Yeah, occasionally get away from me have a picnic with your family You should usually can get away. But for many many months, I want you all the time I just want you there all the time and in exchange, I'll give you some money. So like conceptually, I don't think that this is like a terrible situation as long as the person is really into what they're doing right and then what we have is just like a kind of like a

um i guess you could say what a capitalist commune or i don't know what you'd call it's like a group of people communing together seeking to like extract money from the universe but also like you know what comes to mind sorry anyone from blizzard who's listening you like doesn't like your job there but i got to i went to on this tour of blizzard and they fucking every company that makes video games they make the best video games outside of like the only game i notch up with it right now, I'm into God of War. It's so fucking good. That looks pretty badass. It is amazing. It is amazing.

Look at you. Dude, it's the first AAA game I've liked in so long. What's a AAA game? It's called AAA, right? AAA. It's a really expensive game to make. It's like a hardcore, big time. Pull up a video.

Let me see God of War. God, it's so. The graphics are pretty fucking incredible. Dude, dude. It's beautiful. Don't get me... Fuck the alien damn bullshit. God of War is like...

It's so good, man. And like, I'm stuck in it right now. So you put on the HTC Vive today, the new one that we have, but you didn't get into a game yet. There's some games in it where you're just like, whoa, I see where this is going. And I saw that from yours. But yours was, when I was over your place, what was that? Two or three years ago. Probably two years ago.

Look how good that is. Kratos. Look how good that is. You can see the dirt on his hands. It's like you're watching an episode of Vikings. Dude, it's really good. And it's like... Bitch ass fucking thing freezing up again. Here it goes. So this is actual gameplay? Yeah. See, why is this doing this? that's fucking gameplay dude that's gameplay that's gameplay that's amazing yeah it's

incredible it's amazing she's so hot she's very hot i know the do you think you could hang out with a chick who's like cut people's heads off with swords yes absolutely look at her. Look at him, brother. Her. Look at this. This is fucking badass, dude. But it's not just, dude, what's great about this game is not just, like, the graphics, which are incredible, or the fight mechanics, which are also incredible, but the fucking story is really good,

and the acting is really good and like the relationships between characters are really intense this game will make you like tear up man like it's like damn holy you see what he just did chop that dude in half with an axe holy he just got smashed by a giant smashed he gets smashed a lot but he's kratos the god of war he doesn't give a fuck does not give a fuck man that this is incredible i wouldn't even show much more of this it's spoilers i don't want anybody to see any of the characters or to know what's happening because it's that good like it's such a good game most games the way i've played video games is i try to rush through it for some reason which is really dumb to be like oh i gotta win this thing this, you want to hang out, look around, see the landscape,

and you get really into it. It's a glorious game. But to get back to what we were talking about, at Blizzard, one of the people working there told me, we like building World of Warcraft because we like playing world of warcraft we've created a dimension we want to be inside of like we enjoy it they love it like and and that's why the game is so good because it's being made by people who enjoy playing the game so i don't know how many hours they work at blizzard i imagine it's it can be a pretty brutal schedule but and in anything you do even things you love i know become grueling but i think that

example of a company versus a company where you're like either doing something that you don't even need to be there to do or no comparison Yeah. I mean, it might be massive hours a day, but I bet you're having a great time a lot of the time and the actual result's insane. You know, I was friends with a lot of those guys from id Software back in the Quake 2 days. Yeah. And played Quake 3. I got to play Quake 3 before

it ever came out. I was with you. That's right. That's right. In Dallas. What's his name? Cliff. No. Cliffy? That's Cliffy B. He's id Software. Id software is Doom and Quake. Cliffy B is Unreal. Oh, I was with you when Cliffy B gave us a tour. I didn't see the Quake tour. Sorry, dude.

Well, they're both amazing. But, yeah, we got to see Unreal Tournament when they were putting that together. And they were putting together this new engine that wound up being used in a bunch of different games afterward. But it was fucking crazy. We get to see the graphics as they're designing things and same thing with the Quake Studios. But those guys all were crazy gamers. They would get LAN parties

and sync all the things. We played at the id Software. We got to play death matches between everybody in the studio. It was awesome to play Quake with the guys who made Quake. Fucking cool. The funnest shit ever. Fucking cool, man.

And, you know, I mean, what they did was, if you've never played one of those games before, the three-dimensional games, when you're running down, you hear things over here behind you. Yeah. And you, like, you could turn around and sneak around corners and people are chasing around the map and sometimes you can walk

and it doesn't make any noise or you can run and you can hear the footsteps fucking cool fuck it's the crazy there's so adrenaline packed when you're playing those games

like these guys I'm so terrified we're putting a LAN in here in the next couple weeks I know you are oh we're gonna you and I

we're gonna have some fun. No, we're not, because you're going to beat me at fucking Quake. I suck at shooters, dude. I haven't played in forever. Please. I haven't played in forever. I'll probably be terrible for at least the first 16 hours. If I had a shrink ray and shrunk you into an eight-year-old,

you would still beat me at shooters. I suck at fucking shooters, man. What is your thing? What do you like? You like those role play? I don't want to say it, dude,

because you're going to make fun of me. I won't do it. Come on. I like Hearthstone, man. What is that? I don't even know what it is. Fucking fell for it,

man. I didn't even fall for it. I'm being sincere. I don't know what it is. It's an online fantasy card game. It's like a furry thing. Like furries? I love comedians so much.

Because it's like I knew you were going to insult me. I just didn't know how. And like it's way, the way you did it was way worse than I expected. Like you pretend to be a fox, right? You're like foxkin? Are you otherkin? No, it's not like fucking furries. Is that what it is?

You just get a kick out of it? Do you ever do it in your footie pajamas? With like a little bunny rabbit tail on? I'm in the woods and I'm a rabbit. Oh, fuck, man. I've got to be clever to get away from the fox. All right. Well, let me tell you something.

It's a wonderful fucking game with and it's deep and it's got a lot of strategy and i and i and i love playing it man i really do i i'm not good at it anymore i went through a period of being good i haven't played it in a while because uh i've been playing god of war but oh look at this is this it yeah this looks like death. What is happening here? What is happening here? Let's see. They're cards? Yeah, they're cards. Basically, I'm not going to explain the rules of Hearthstone on your show, dude.

Please don't. It's a great game. This is killing me. It's a great, very fun, very enjoyable game. It's a good game for nine-year-old girls. That's what it looks like. Get it for my kids. I'm just thinking all I had to do was say Starcrafter.

I could have lied, but I knew I had to tell you the truth. But I knew you were addicted to that. You had a real problem with that for a while. You and I mirror each other in our video game addictive tendencies. Right. We're both like, ugh. Yeah. Gotta be careful. But, careful but dude you know this is

this is something i was thinking i wanted to bring up during the podcast man it's like when we first started hanging out you told me something i've never forgotten you mentioned something from that book, which is that learn one thing and you will know how to do a lot of other stuff, right? Yeah. So he would apparently, he was a samurai. And so he recommended for samurai, not just to learn the sword but to learn poetry learn how to paint learn how to do this stuff because in the meta process of learning

you learn you like you you there's something in there that like fits onto all forms of learning right you don't want to be too hard but you don't want to be too hard, but you don't want to be too soft. You want to be a balance. In a balance, you have to be artistic and destructive. You have to be loving and hating. He played games with his opponents. He didn't just fight nobly. He was an asshole. He would show up hours late for duels and make the guy wait.

So he knew the guy would be freaking out. He would show up sometimes with wooden swords instead of metal swords to fuck with their heads. One time he whittled a sword out of an oar of the boat that he rowed over to the beach where he was supposed to have the sword fight, showed up hours late, fucked the dude up with an oar. Oh, dude.

Yeah, he would play games with people. He knew that there was psychological warfare in him showing up late right you know right yeah and do you remember the first sentence of the book i do not i remember the quote that you just were talking about because i say it all the time it's like the reason why i have this tattoo on my arm this is musashi you know yeah it's once you understand the way broadly or once you know the way broadly you'll see it in all things that yeah so so and which is also uh as above so below it's another way of saying that it's like in it so it's the

concept that uh if i practice something yeah for example like right now like i'm learning how to do modular synthesis like i have modular sense theyass. It's like for making music, right? I'm 44. I'm not like thinking to myself like, man, one day I'm going to be fucking bass nectar. I'm not thinking that,

you know what I mean? I don't, I don't even think I'll, I perform live with them ever, but I'm, I, I, I got sucked into it and now I'm taking it seriously.

So I'm learning how to do it for real. Like, and then that pulls you into like music theory. Right. So now you start looking at, well, what is a song and why does a song, why is a song set up like it is and what are notes and what's a tone, right? What's an oscillator? What are these things? And then like, from that, you get pulled into like Pythagoras, you know, like and then suddenly you're like reading like shit by Pythagoras now when I sit down and play guitar, like, I'm a little better at it.

But then where it gets fucking weird is when I sit down and play, like, God of War, I'm a little better at that, too. And then, like, when I'm thinking about cutting tomatoes, for example, something really basic in the pressure i'm exerting to cut the tomato versus the sharpness of the knife i think about music and i think about whoa in a weird way my knife is like a this is you won't know what this is maybe like my knife is like a cv gate which is like if you have a tone like a gate might be an on and off like switch that makes the tone go. Right. So suddenly the shit you're learning from like and by the way, synth nerds out there. I don't know what I just fucking said.

I already fucked it up. I'm sorry. I'm learning. But what I'm saying is it's like what he was teaching is so powerful which is like what you don't just get good at one thing yeah it bleeds into other shit in your life too sure that is an incredible thing for me to realize man it's been pretty intense because like you know when you like what you were saying you know for if you're a 20 year old, you know, people expect you to be learning something, this or that. But when you're in your 40s, you know, you could trick yourself into thinking like, I don't need to learn how to do anything anymore.

And then you're basically like turning down all the lights in your life. Because when you start working on something, even this is what i was going to ask you man maybe even video games oh for sure video games do we dismiss them because they were thought of as frivolous exercises and we embrace chess and go and all that and even poker because we know that it's an intellectual pursuit like real poker players are all super fucking smart guys the guys who were really good at it yeah i think that we do that with video games because at one point in time, they were just Pong, and then they were Mario Brothers, and they were silliness and fun.

You get the mushroom and have a good time. Yeah. And Pac-Man and all that shit. But now, when you see God of War, you're like, okay. Well, clearly, your brain is firing on all cylinders when you're doing that. That's right. You're swinging that axe and switching to the spear and doing this and jumping there and chopping this dude in half and getting away from the guy with the fucking flying

log he's throwing at you. Yeah. That's your brain. Your brain's firing left and right. The idea that this is totally useless seems stupid. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that potentially through anything, the problem with video games is you can play them and actually not get better at them because you just like are slashing and pressing buttons and shit.

You can focus. But I think when your attention and focus gets put on improving anything, like theoretically I imagine if you just started working on drawing a circle or drawing like a perfect circle and just spent day after day working on that pursuit sounds insane like you'd look crazy to your friends but potentially other shit in your life you'd start improving at too your mind gets a little sharper maybe maybe it's just some kind of neurogenesis or something. I don't know. It's exercise. It's exercise for your mind.

For sure, your brain is very, very active when you're playing a video game. You know, I know when I would play Quake, my hands would get so sweaty that I would put antiperspirant on my hands. I would spray antiperspirant all over my hands, and then I would blow on them to keep them from getting so sweaty because my fingers would barely, they would slip around over my hands. And then I would blow on them to keep them from getting so sweaty. Because my fingers would barely, they would slip around over the keyboard. I would leave puddles in the keys. My mouse would get soaking wet.

It would be dripping all over the mouse pad and the ball would get stuck. Then it eventually became a laser beam, laser tracking. First it sucked, then it got way better. First it was like you wanted that ball. You wanted to feel the ball underneath the the mouse because you got that tactile sensation right but then it got to a point where these laser ones were so much more accurate and they never fuck up they just became better that shit has always been like really odd to me when you look at a gaming mouse and it says how precise it is down to the like the d Yeah, the DPIs. Yeah, the DPIs. I remember Razormouse had one that was 2,000 DPI, the Mamba, and it was crazy.

You'd play with the thing and be like, Jesus Christ, it was so fast, but it was an odd shape, like it was a duck foot. Do you remember that? Yeah, I would say, wait, see, the ones now, there's a button on it. You can switch mid-game depending on what you're doing or what you need. You can set up your DPI from up to 8,000, 8,000, 10,000, down to 200, 100. I wonder why you would need it slower. Why would you want it slower? There's some games like you don't need to be moving that much.

It might be a sniper, so you need very small adjustments, and you can make big moves with your hands and have still a small adjustment. Yeah, some guys, when the adrenaline would kick in, they would like a slow mouse speed and a big mouse pad. And they would move the pad around like that. And they felt more precise that way than they were with a small pad and a high speed. Because some guys used to do little wrist flicks with super high speed.

And you would try their mouse. You'd be like, hey, man, can I try your setup? Because everybody's setup was different. And I would try their setup. I'd be like, Jesus, how do you even concentrate? This is crazy. You're moving so fast. They would have their speed just jack. And I would try their setup. I'd be like, Jesus, how do you even concentrate? This is crazy. You're moving so fast. They would have their speed just –

And they would have mouse acceleration. You know what mouse acceleration is? Yeah. So if you move faster, it actually goes faster. Yeah. Almost like you're throwing a whip. Yeah. Yeah.

I know, dude. You need that in StarCraft. You do need that too? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's very important getting your mouse set at the right speed, and then you get used to that speed. So if your mouse is fucked up, you're definitely going to make bad decisions. But I never got, like, I got okay at StarCraft.

I think I got up to, like, I don't know, maybe Silver League or something like that. What does that mean? If you were in Jiu-Jitsu. It's not a big deal. Would you have a purple belt? What's the belt after white belt? Blue. the one after that purple it's probably blue blue belt because bronze league is where i stayed forever that's the white belt stage yeah mercilessly getting my fucking ass handed to me in bronze league and then like finally i figured it out

a little bit enough where i popped into the silver. And then you want to go back to the fucking Bronze League. Because once you get to the Silver League, you can't do a fucking early game baneling rush. You can't like. Can't do that? Fuck no. You can't do any of that shit. And when you try it, when you try it, they're going to like, they're going to make fun. They're going to type to you like, no.

But they're also going to be like, what? Like, what are you doing, you fucking noob? Fuck you. Why are you doing that shit? I wanted a real game. You're going to do some early game bailing rush? Get smart. You know when people get super mad when their fucking connection would time out

and they would be stuck in the game and you'd fuck them up? Oh, yeah. They'd be stuck frozen. Oh, yeah. You'd just light them up. Sometimes you'd use your smallest gun and, yeah. They'd be stuck frozen. Oh, yeah. And you'd just light them up. You know, like, sometimes you'd use, like, your smallest gun and just slowly pick away their health. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.

Or you'd punch them. Remember in the old Quake games, you could punch dudes? Yeah. Yeah. There was some video that popped up of that new game, Fortnite, everybody's playing. And it's, like, it was on Reddit. It's, like, the worst Fortnite player ever

because it's someone who clearly got up to go get chips or maybe they, and the dude's like shooting at them and can't hit like a still person. Yeah, man. That's funny. Games are badass these days, man. I really love them. But I do like think to myself, I still, and probably just because I'm like

an older person I do think there's like a hierarchy of like what's good to do and I think it's better for me it's better I like learning music right now I like sitting down picking some basic thing about music

figuring out one little thing about a module one of my synths and what it does and understanding it does and understanding it and then like unfolding that into something bigger. And that can lead to hours of it. Whereas like if I sit down and play God of War, you know, that's also going to lead to hours. But at the end of it, I'm going to know more about a story.

Whereas the other one, I'm going to know a little bit more about math and like how sound works in general, which is a fascinating thing altogether. So I don't know. What do you think? Is like there a hierarchy of shit to do? No, I don't think there is. I think there's a hierarchy and elevated passion levels. It's like, what are you passionate about? Say if you were doing something and, you know and you were very apathetic about it,

but then there was this other thing that you did that once you started – like for some people, the World Cup was on today. I went to get a cup of coffee and they had the World Cup on. Yeah. And all these guys are gathering around watching the World Cup. To me, it's just some dudes running around. I don't know what's going on. I like it.

It's fine. It's great. It's good. But for them, there was clearly – and for the world, for all the people watching in the stands, there's an elevated level of passion for that. Now, if that was your thing, I would say maybe you could be a commentator or maybe you could be a player or maybe you could be someone who produces one of those soccer shows or something like that.

Right. There's plenty of gigs for that. Right. But if that's your thing and instead you get into shoe sales like Al Bundy, after a while that shit chips away at you. You're like, this is not what I like. What I like is I want to play soccer. I want to watch soccer.

I want to talk about soccer. I want to commentate on soccer. You've got to find the thing. And you're like, oh, not everybody can commentate on soccer. That is true. But it's also a loser mentality. Like someone can. Yeah, not everybody can. But how many many people try that's the other thing like people say not everybody could be a successful comedian

you're right how many people try though right not that many people try yeah you know more people could do it than than try i think there's a bunch of people out there that could i always tell you about i've told you about this guy my friend dave dolan who is uh my boss he's a bunch of people out there that could. I always tell you about, I've told you about this guy, my friend Dave Dolan, who is my boss. He was a private investigator when I was a kid. Right. I got a gig driving him around. He needed an assistant. Really, he got a DUI.

They took his license away and needed a driver. That's it. He was the funniest guy I've ever met. Yeah. He was right up there with Joey Diaz. Wow. So funny, man. And, you know, no aspirations for comedy at all.

And his cousin was Billy Downs, who was one of the owners of the Comedy Connection in Boston. So his cousin was a former comedian who owned a comedy club and just randomly became friends with him from an ad on one of those newspaper ads for the job seeking a private investigator's assistant. I'm like, that sounds like a cool job. Wow. Yeah.

So, but this guy easily could have been a comic. Like a hundred percent could have been a comic. He's a, he was a funny fucking dude. And he was always the guy that if a bunch of people were to say it around, he would say something like totally ridiculous, look you in the eye and say it. And everybody would be laughing. It was just natural. He was just a naturally funny guy.

Just didn't do it. Did he like being a private investigator? Loved it. There you go. Loved busting people. Yeah. Cheaters. Mostly people who were cheating on their insurance.

Oh, yeah. That was mostly. There was a few. He had one guy who kept asking him to take pictures of his girlfriend getting fucked by this giant bodybuilder dude. And after a while, he's like, hey, dude, enough with this kinky shit. I'm not giving you any more fucking pictures. He threw it at the dude. He's like, get the fuck out of here with this. He goes, what else do you want, bro?

I got the pictures. I'm not going to get more pictures, you fucking idiot. That's so funny. That's so funny. That's so funny. Why didn't the guy just hire a photographer, right? Well, the guy was, he was this like really wealthy but diminutive, very non

masculine man. And he had this bombshell girl that he had figured out a way to get a part of. Yeah. But she was just getting drilled on the side. Did she know he was getting pictures taken? I don get a part of. Yeah. But she was just getting drilled on the side. Did she know he was getting pictures taken? I don't think she did. No.

I don't think she did. Because that's what it sounds like to me. It sounds like a fetish game where he's like, oh, I'm- It seems like it, but I don't think it was. I think it was just a weak guy who didn't know what to do. Because they would be on the beach. He'd get pictures of them on the beach making out and stuff. He got enough pictures.

A lot of these guys, I mean, yeah. I don't know, man. That to me sounds a little bit like... Well, that's what he thought a little bit. He thought the guy was a little bit of a freak. But at the end of the day, he was like, look, come on. You know, it was his fucking heavy Boston accent. Bro, I got you your fucking pictures.

Yeah. Make a move. Right. I'm not taking it anymore. Right. It's hilarious. Thank you. See you later.

That sucks. That's a shit job. I wouldn't want to do that. He loved busting people That's not his thing, he didn't really like That was rare, most of the time he worked for insurance companies Most of the time it was like Say if you were married and you were a woman

And you had a different maiden name You would get injured on the job And then you would start using your maiden name And take a job on the side while you were getting workman's compensation So people would get double paid Whoa And they would have to leave their jobs like people would leave their jobs super early in the morning so we would camp out in front of people's houses where we would get there at four o'clock in the morning when everybody's asleep we'd sit in the car across the street and we'd wait sometimes earlier and we'd wait and we'd wait and we wait five third

roll around and then you'd see some light go on and you're like he, he's up, he's up, he's up. Here he goes. Here he goes. This motherfucker's going to work. And this is a guy who's supposed to be laid up in bed. And we catch him, like, working as a roofer. Holy shit. Carrying shingles up a ladder. And they're getting disability insurance.

Yeah. So that was a really common thing. Most of it was disability insurance. Man, what a fucked up state of life to get into where you're doing insurance fraud. Like, that's a sad existence to, like, get into that spot where you're like, I'm going to give it to the man. I've come up with a scheme, honey. You know, someone from the comedy store. I probably can't mention their name.

But sometimes it's not like that, man. See, this is the thing. Like, it was nice people. They just didn't know better and i don't say that like they're stupid i say that like they're just they didn't think they're gonna get caught they didn't think it was that big a deal they didn't think through it very well like there was one lady was so nice she uh he had a scam this was a scam say if your license plate number he would write down your license plate number and then write down one that was really close to it and write down another one that was really

close to that and then he would knock on your door and he'd say I hate to bother you but my girlfriend was in a car accident and the police report where they had the witnesses driver's license number some coffee got spilt on the report and they don't know exactly what the license number is there's we've checked these two it's not them I have a friend who works in the DMV and they hooked me up and then you tell her an injury oh I'm sorry well what happened to is she okay she's okay but she did this oh my god I had that same injury you tell them the injury that they had that's giving them workman's compensation and yeah I had the same that's giving them workman's compensation. And yeah, I had the same.

That's terrible. Do you guys want to come in and have a cup of coffee? She invites us in the fucking house. Strangers. This is what people did in the 80s, dude. They invited people in the house like pilgrims. These crazy, this lady invited two guys into her house and he spins her a yarn about his girlfriend being injured.

And she said, I had the exact same problem. And he said, well, what happened? She said, well, I was on the job as a flight attendant and I fell down and hurt myself. And he goes, well, you're getting paid, aren't you? And she goes, oh, not only am I getting paid, but I'm also working under my maiden name at another job. Wow. And he's like, oh, yeah, great, great idea. Way to do it.

Lady's so nice. And we got out of there. And I was like, man, we can't turn her in. He's like, fuck her. She goes. Wow. She goes. She's a fucking crook. He goes, that lady's a fucking crook.

I go, she's so nice. She let us in her house. She gave us coffee. Fuck her. I love that shit, man. How being nice has somehow become synonymous with not being dangerous or a crook. That's a really funny thing. It's true.

Because being nice, that's a really great costume to put on. If you want to camouflage yourself and you're a predator, the way the tigers- She wasn't a predator. She was just a lady who didn't think it was a big deal to rip off a corporation. People grow up thinking corporations are faceless, nameless entities, and you can extract money from them. That's the way people think of some liability lawsuits. You slip on some water in the hallway in a big building, and you fall down like, oh,

I'm hurt. I'm real hurt. You guys didn't protect me. My balance was compromised. I know.. I'm real hurt. You guys didn't protect me. My balance was compromised. I know. I fell on your ground. Somebody put some water on your ground. I'm not responsible for this.

I'm going to sue, sue, sue, sue. Yeah, it's fucked. It's bad. That woman was making a terrible mistake. And your friend, Dolan. Dynamite Dickless Dave Dolan, he used to call himself. He helped her. He helped her.

He helped her out. Because that kind of shit, that kind of life. Stealing. You want to create. Yeah. You want to create a version of that woman where inside she didn't feel at least a little bad, a little bitter, a little weak, a little off balance. Of course. But reality, the reality is she didn't feel good about that probably. And that's not a great way to live, man.

And so by getting corrected by the universe in those ways, you know, I think it's a good thing. I'm glad that, you know, some things aren't illegal, for example, but they are, you know, like obviously, like we agree on some of these things, right? Those things it's fucked up to bust people for but if you're stealing you know in in in in at that in that way i don't know man no you're right no you're right but i would have never turned her in i would have said that i can't that would have never been a good private investigator i just i i feel like a lot of those people and i was 20 at the time 21 at the time at the most 21 i think um at that time i was really well aware of like the the neighborhood where my grandparents grew up right like and and being around them and being

around my parents who grew up in the 60s and then my grandparents who grew up I mean they were they were here in the depression and they just there was a different attitude about opportunity like everybody was poor right yeah everybody would like take advantage of every opportunity and if you got an opportunity to run a scam yeah you did You did it. Yeah. And that's a terrible thing that happens in poor communities is that people do think of, like, insurance scams, this kind of scam. Like, you know, you got to think about it like it's a score. You know, think about it like it's a score. I've heard guys say that to me.

I know. Older Italian guys, look, you got to think about this. This is a score. Okay? You can't fuck this up. You got an opportunity here. All you have to do is you go to the fucking chiropractor my back hurts They can't tell you why your back hurts. Nobody knows why you're fucking hurts, which is true

Yeah, you know you would go to a chiropractor every day and say my bag is fucking killing me I'm shooting pain down my leg. They can't prove it or disprove it next thing You know you get a thirty five thousand dollar check in the mail, right? Yeah, you know man Here's the thing. Number one, I feel like I have to say this. I would not have turned this fucking, that woman in if I was not a private investigator. Of course you wouldn't.

But that'd be, and Dolan ethically had to turn her in. Cause if he didn't, he would be guilty of stealing from the person who was giving him money to do the job. There was never a question. Right. I mean,

that's what he did for a living. He was turning her in. Yeah. But the, the, the the main problem with stealing, like, you know, sometimes I've been hanging out with people, you leave a grocery store and somehow they didn't charge for like, I don't know, a bottle of water or whatever. Like they didn't see it in the car. Yeah.

Right. And the people, some people are like, yeah, I did it. Free water. They fucked up. Right. And like, man, I think those people are unaware of this like weird law in the universe, which is that you seem to like have to, you get shit back times three. It feels like maybe a little bit more than that when you give or take or take so

like if you steal a two dollar bottle of water now this is my superstition you're gonna end up paying like at least six bucks for that bottle of water in some other way some karmic way some shit's gonna happen you're gonna get a parking ticket you're gonna get some weird fucking thing so i think a thief is unaware of a metaphysical economy which is like you think you're gonna get a parking ticket you're gonna get some weird fucking thing so i think a thief is unaware of a metaphysical economy which is like you think you're gonna get away with that but you're you're not like if you could really get away with it it would give me pause but like i've noticed man all my friends who are really successful they leave giant fucking tips, crazy tips, crazy tips. You know a few of these people, Joe.

Tips where, like, it makes the waitress cry. And also I've noticed they will dodge out of a place before they could be acknowledged for leaving some insanely massive tip. Dude, I'm right here. You don't have insanely massive tip dude. I'm right here You don't have to talk about me like I'm not here I just don't want to fucking embarrass you man because it's like you know a lot of you know I don't it but the main thing is like that's a love bomb. That's why I was called that yeah You leave a love bomb for the waiter right yeah, but I think also

There's another side to it That is is more than just like the the feeling you get of knowing you've been generous and you're not that attached to money. No, it's not even that. It's like you get an opportunity to give a nudge in a positive. They feel good. So if they feel good, like somebody gives you a $100 tip for a fucking cup of coffee or something, they get this feeling like, holy shit. All of a sudden, a beautiful feeling out of a normal situation, just a normal interaction. I give you this and you give me that.

And I say thank you and I go. Well, in that normal interaction, all of a sudden, boom, you get this beautiful gift from a stranger that didn't have to do that for no reason at all. Just a little love bomb. It's even better when you're not there, when you're in the car driving and they realize you left it for them. Right. See, that thing right there, man, if you go back to what we were talking about, about momentum. Yeah, it puts little ripples out there. Yeah.

And those ripples spread. Yeah. And it's not just with that, obviously. Oh, the only way to do it is with money. No. It's being nice to people. Sometimes I've had days where, like, I'm just walking somewhere and someone looks at me and they go, hey, how are you? Everything good?

Yeah, man, everything's good. How you doing? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Enjoy the day. Just a nice little friendly interaction with some person you never met before and for no reason just wants to be a nice guy. Yeah. Those make you feel good, man.

Yeah, dude. Those are nice moments. Conversely, weird moments that I've had where people that are distracted and they're looking at their phone they're not paying attention like look at this fucking dummy that almost ran into me I don't have to think that way that's a dumb way to think but I do think it especially if it's like a kid you know some fucking kid

just trying to pussy where's the pussy and they almost run into you like hey dude your phone right they're radiating this momentum into the world. They're not interacting with people that are there. Versus a person who's genuinely nice. It's like, just see someone walking down the street and they say, good morning.

You're like, good morning. And everybody feels good. It's a nice little thing like that. That's right. Those spread. That person might do it to the next person they meet. And then, boom, everybody's saying hi to everybody. Everybody's hugging everybody.

This is it. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about this probably every time because we both agree that this is like probably if there was going to be a nonviolent revolution in this country that wasn't based on voting, it's going to start with that. Yeah. And what is that you know and in the the thing i'm being taught is like that thing you're talking about it can be cultivated and like refined so you can sort of that's why it's called a practice like when you're sitting

and you're watching your breath and you're learning how to be in the moment instead of thinking i'm doing this for, instead of thinking, I'm doing this for this reason or that, like I'm doing this because when I'm like talking to somebody, they're going to think I'm spiritual. I'm doing this because I want to be more focused. I'm doing this because I have an anxiety disorder. I'm doing this because of this or that. That's great. But there's another reason to do it, which is that if you get really good at being in the moment with people, and also when you're sitting with yourself and learning who you are, you have to start applying a lot of compassion to yourself because you're going to sit, man, and you're going to, some

shit's going to float to the surface of the stream that you wish had stayed under some rocks, man. You're going to see not just shit that's been done to you, but you're going to see shit that you've done to other people. And you're going to have to deal with that, right? And the way to deal with that is not to do like, I don't know if you do this at all, but sometimes I will remember something from when I was very young

and be like, you fucking dick. I'll say it out loud to nobody. Yelling to someone like 15 years ago, right? And you're yelling at you? At my past self. Like, you motherfucker, you know? What have you gotten me into with my memories? Jesus Christ, man.

Why were you doing that? Why did you do that? So that's like the opposite of compassion for the self, right? So anyway, the point is, if you can like sort of cultivate compassion for who you are right now, that's not to say use that as an excuse to not try to become a kinder person, but I'm saying cultivate compassion

for the fact that like, man, your dad had PTSD and your fucking folks got divorced when you were three. And your dad remarried an abusive woman who hated your fucking guts for seven fucking years. And she did some really bad things to you over the course of that time that you were way too young to process or you had no you had no way to deal with that and now when you're in you're in your 20s or your 30s you're realizing that you seem to be kind of a selfish cunt and it's like well yeah the reason you're being a selfish quote cunt is because you had to build up a very high powered defense mechanism to deal with the fact that you were abused for almost a decade when your brain was forming more neurons than it ever will at any other point in its life.

selfish cunt, we could think, oh, I've got too big a force field up. I've developed a thing to protect me from an environment that I'm no longer in. And then the point is, once you start becoming compassionate to yourself, that's when you run into the person who's being a selfish cunt, who's being a selfish cunt who you can look at and say, oh, I see you. I know who you are. I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was an abusive parent. I don't know if it was a heartbreak. I don't know if it was something you read.

I don't know if it was something. I don't know. Maybe genetic. I don't know. But I know from looking into myself enough to know that you deserve more compassion than you're getting. That's it. So we have this agreement that everybody can learn up to a certain point, right? We agree that pretty much everyone who's normal

and not impaired mentally can learn how to read. Yes. We agree to this. I think so, yeah. Yeah, we agree to simple mathematics. Everyone can learn how to add and subtract and multiply. And after that, it gets a little squirrely with division. Sure.

People can't count. But we're agreeing that with minimal paying attention in school, we could all achieve a certain level. Yes. But there's very little, very little attention ever paid to considering how you behave and how you think and how you observe yourself and how you correct mistakes and how you learn from the past. Yeah. It's never taught. It's one of the most important things I've ever learned in my life. Yeah.

Is to not cling on to the past, but don't forget it either. That's great. Remember that you fucked up., but don't forget it either. That's great. Remember that you fucked up. Don't do it again. But don't live in this world of 20 years ago or 30 years ago or whatever that one instance where you wish you didn't say this one thing to some person or hit some person or drive your car where you should. Whatever the fuck it is.

Whatever thing that it was that you still sit back and go god yeah you know i i rear-ended somebody once with my car um when i was on my way to selling it and i wasn't paying attention to the red light and my car had a i think it was a 1978 oldsmobile cutlass and the front, I crunched this guy's bumper with the fiberglass part of my car. I didn't do shit to his car. He had a truck. But I fucked up my car on the way to selling it. And I brought it to this person and the grill was like half hanging off

and I remember in my car just going fuck! Fuck! I just fucking... I was so broke and such a loser and barely keeping it together and on my way to selling this car I fucked it up, and I was just like you fucking loser Yeah, I remember being in my car screaming at myself you fucking loser And I remember the guy bought it anyway. He just took a bunch of money off of it. I forget what we agreed on

but But this feeling would haunt me for months for months i'd be doing other things and i would think of rear end of that car not paying attention fucking up the front i'm like because it wasn't even like an accident it was like i left my foot off the gas yeah and i just slammed into somebody because i wasn't paying attention. Right. Yeah, man. I let my foot off the brake, rather. It was something that I literally was defining myself by for months. Sure. I was thinking that I was a loser because I did this.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it right there. It wasn't like, hey, asshole, don't let your foot off the brake. Pay attention to what you're doing. You're driving a fucking car. I know you're only 18, but pay attention to what the fuck you're doing. It wasn't that.

It was, you fucking loser! You fucking loser! I was screaming at myself. Dude, I was talking to this dude at one of these Ram Dass retreats who's in his 20s. I'm really, by the way, I'm't at a, I'm like really like veiling a person very, very deeply here. Like, but the point is, this person was telling me some shitty thing that had happened to them when they were a kid. Right. And real young.

And like it happened like at a doctor's office. The doctor like, it was like a a doctor's office. The doctor, like it was like a shitty doctor or something. I don't know. But the doctor like slap, slap the kid. Right. Jesus.

Yeah. And so, for what reason? Well, there's no reason. Is there Joe? Like, there's really no reason to slap a kid.

He's come to a doctor's office. Right. So for sure. Right. What was the reason? Well, that's the thing. The kids, that's the thing. My friend office, right? Oh, for sure. But what was the reason the doctor had? That's the thing my friend said.

My friend said, well, I was squirming around. Oh, Jesus. He hadn't considered. He hadn't even considered that he was five. So like I said to him, I'm like, hey, man, when was the last time you picked up a five year old? Do you know how small five year olds are? Do you understand that you didn't do anything wrong?

That that was a shitty doctor? That was a crazy fucking doctor and your whole life to rationalize the fact that sometimes big people are crazy and slap little people you try to apply some logic or like to to the act itself right now that's a heavy burden to carry because if you think you're a bad five-year-old you're probably going to think you're a bad 30 god knows you're going to think you're a bad 35 year old all the crazy shit you can do when you're 35 so it's like that mentality of looking back on our former self and hating it is the very same reason that we hate others it's identical if i'm going to hate myself definitely i'm giving myself permission aid everybody else around me and that's so the work is let's figure out how to like be compassionate to our former selves and not just when we were

fucking kids in a doctor's office and not just 10 years ago and not just 20 years ago like start and start now like right now because you're sitting on top of a card house made of memory right and it's like that you're the entire thing so you got to love it all and then then if you start doing that shit i have noticed your degree of country drops by a lot it's not gonna go away it will definitely at least for me i i mean one of the things that people i've had many guys ask me before like why do you uh why do you so insist on exercise it's a big one yeah do you really think it helps you i'm like i know it helps me i don't want it's like jerking off but for the body. Right.

Like instead of this thing that you get when you jerk off, this relief from the need for sex. Yeah. There's unnoticed tension that's constantly in your body that flavors the way you think about things. It really just does. Last night my daughter was upset at something. She had gotten into a little tift with one of her friends. Super upset and really her friend, she thought her friend was being mean and just didn't, you know, trying to deal with it. We went to the garage and I said, let's just go.

We'll work out. You'll feel better. And I put the pads on and we started moving around, started throwing some kicks and punches, started breaking a sweat, really getting into it. Pop, pop, wap, pop, pop, wap. And getting in. Woo, this is fun. And then laughing and joking around.

And then we talked about it. Because now you can talk about it rationally. Because now it's not fucking with you. You have this energy that's just pent up. You got to let that energy out. And then you're left with the thoughts. But too many people get stuck with the energy and the thought yeah and the energy is overwhelming the thought and it's like all this fucking emotion and all this craziness yeah and run around the block or fucking hitting the heavy bag or hitting the pads yeah or skip some rope or

whatever you're into take a yoga class whatever you're into drain the stress out of the body and then look at the object or the the idea for what it is and this is a fucking important method of managing the way you think about things that people overlook they overlook the impact of physical tension on the body and your decision making process oh wow yeah do you hey do you believe that trauma is stored in the body you think that's bullshit i don't know i mean i know that trauma is stored in the body? You think that's bullshit? I don't know. I mean, I know that trauma is something that clings inside your subconsciousness. Your subconsciousness is a part of your consciousness.

Your consciousness supposedly resides in your body. So why wouldn't it be in your body somehow, way, shape, or form? Right. You know, there's also the idea that there's parts of your body that retain memory, not just your brain. But there's neurons in your body, and perhaps they retain memory would not just your brain but there's neurons in your body and perhaps they retain memory right like there's the concept that there's apparently there's some type of neuron in the heart right yes and this is what a lot of people believe was responsible for this idea of like follow your heart follow your heart maybe if those are your memories and your your

database of collective emotional ideas if there's really something to that, like maybe it's not just in the brain area but also in the heart area and in all the neurons. Maybe we just think because our consciousness resides in the brain that all of our memories reside there as well and that they're not in various areas of our body. People that get transplants, man, one of the weird things that they say is they find that they have cravings for things. Right. The person who donated the organ. Right. Right. I don't know if that's real or not because obviously I've never gone through a transplant, but.

I've heard that shit a lot, man. I've heard that too. And someone was explaining it to me like, well, like, oh, God, here comes fucking bro scientist Trussell. Get ready, gang. Here we go. I'm ready. Dr. Trussell. I've got a fucking master's degree in bro science.

Do you? Oh, yeah, dude. Hey, are you working tonight? You doing anything tonight? What's that? Yeah, dude, I am. You got a gig? Yeah.

Why? What's going on? Ice house. I can't do it. That's okay. Dude, thank you so much though anytime i was just thinking right before i do my bro science thing man your daughter's fucking lucky god damn your dad's like let's go to the gym in the house and fucking kick box you're upset that's super cool man i was just

thinking that the other thing well it's only cool if they like it the thing is she likes to do it this is one thing that I think is extremely important because I see people that like get their son to play football because they played football and the kid doesn't want to play fucking football yeah man you got to let your kids be who they are they get super resentful right I've seen people raise

their kids and try to force their kids into holes you got to support them and love them and let them find their path you have to you have to let them find their path you can't decide they're going to be a doctor or decide they're going to be a lawyer or decide they're going to be whatever the fuck you want them to be they they gotta be what they are we're all so different and you are literally robbing a kid of their future if you over influence their choice making in terms of like not following their passion or their dream or their ideas. Yeah.

And it can be done. And to say that it can't be done is, oh, so many people can't do it. So many people don't get their doctorate. So many people don't ever become scientists or astronauts or fucking mathematicians. A lot of things are hard to do, man. A lot of things. But you can't decide the way that kid's brain works. You're not in there.

You're not in there. And it's different than yours. And hers is different than his. And this brother is different than this sister. And the mom's different than all of them. And you've got to let people be. You've got to let them be. You have to.

And people don't. And those fucking people hate their parents those people develop this fucking resentment because there's no freedom their fucking mom is always on them mom i don't want to do that will you just stop i raised you i didn't raise you to talk to me like this you're my son i don't want you being a loser Do you understand it? You're like I don't want to be a doctor Yeah I'm so disappointed in you I know friends where their parents Don't talk to them anymore

Because they changed majors Whoa Yeah They changed majors And dad stopped talking to them What? Yeah You don't want to

Take on the company business? You don't want to take on the company The idea was We were going to send you to go to school And you were going to take over The company business Yeah man I want to take on the company business? You don't want to take on the company? The idea was we were going to send you to go to school and you were going to take over the company business. Yeah, man. I want to be in a band. You're a fucking loser.

Some people have a really tough... It's like we got to be so much kinder to people. Just thinking shit like that helps you understand how people are. You run into just about anybody, man, and it's so easy to have someone in your life and enjoy the idea that they're an asshole and they deserve it but if you spend just a speck of time thinking about it it's like it we really it's suck in a weird way it sucks we just wait until you have kids well then it gets really

really interesting because you start looking at people like they used to be babies that's what happened to me i got a baby boy coming man i know you do i don't like yeah this is the first place i've said it holy shit like i talked to my wife be your daddy she said it's okay uh you know you can when when you're in the early months you're you i don't know why but like yeah you're scared it's it's it's such a sacred thing. Yeah. It's a vulnerable thing to talk about. It makes you feel vulnerable. It makes you feel nervous. And because of that energy, you're worried about talking. I fucking love it, dude.

It is the most transformative. Like, you know, like you hear all the time to the point where I was like suspicious of it. Like I was like, you know, I don't. Stan Hope has done this joke for a while. So I think I'm allowed to say it or you not. Should I not even? What's the rule? Yeah.

Yeah. He doesn't do any of his old stuff. He's got some of my favorite jokes of all time. Many of them. But he's got this killer fucking joke about how like pregnant people are like heroin addicts. They're like, just try it. You'll love it. Just try it.

And then when you do it, you're stuck. You're trapped, which is how I used to think. But man, it's so humbling to realize that all the shit you heard was true in the sense that you hear people say, oh no, it's psychedelic. Now, I always associated that with like when the baby's born, there must be some serotonin or dopamine that gets released, not just in the woman.

We know the woman's brain is flooded with oxytocin and a variety of things. The mother, the bonding chemicals. But, you know, I thought, well, that clearly would would happen for the father maybe just not in the same level so when people say it's psychedelic that must be what they mean but now i know you know the birth hasn't happened yet so but just being in the presence of a person who's growing a life inside of their belly and realizing that like the bonding that's happening there and like the sacred duty is coming up of you being a father and that a soul is coming into this dimension that is going to be completely dependent on you. And my wife, of course, wanting to keep her safe. And then,

my wife of course wanting to keep her safe and then man it the combination of all these things is so incredibly psychedelic in the most beautiful way and so humbling because it's like boy oh boy did i fucking tell myself that i'd figured out something really smart and that was like reproduction is a trick of the dna and this marriage thing and the baby thing is some kind of vestigial societal organ like the appendix we don't need to do that there's nothing to it obviously i wasn't using that voice but like it was such a pretentious fucking pompous ridiculous place that i was standing at which is to judge people for reproducing having enjoying the ability to judge because my parents reproduced you know what i mean right so it's so humbling to realize like oh i was wrong but i wasn't just like kind of wrong like i was deeply fundamentally completely wrong about this phase of life in this uh, what's the word for it?

Well, I like in Hinduism, they call it an ashram, like a monastery. It's called the Grihastha ashram. It's like a temple. It's considered to be like a temple, the family. Holy fuck, man. It's real. The rubbers hit the road, man. And it's like, it's really, really beautiful, though obviously a little scary.

Yeah. It's love. It's real love. And it's love where you know you're going to be able to love your children unconditionally in a very strange way. That we really have a hard time with other people. And I think the thing about it is not just that you're bringing a life into this world which is very psychedelic but that your love bond with this kid is so ultimate it's so it's so intense the love that you have for each other to raising the kid together there's a thing that happens with with

with people when they are just really deeply connected at a, like a DNA level. Like this is a little person that is literally come out of nowhere from two bodies. Yeah. And it's, it makes you realize how precious life is, how vulnerable we all are. And it makes you realize that,

I mean, there's such a cliche phrase, the actual power of love. Right. And then it's not just the love of this kid or the love of yourselves, the two together and the family together and all the other people that you love. It's the love of all people. It's the love.

Right. We just really have a hard time loving people. We have a really hard time trusting that people are going to love us back or that they're not going to get in our way. They're not going to be overly needy or annoying or they're not going to be intrusive or they're not going to tell you what to do, which is why people hate their fucking parents telling them what to do. Oh, love comes with this bullshit.

Love comes with this nonsense. Love comes with fucking rules and I have to be annoyed all the time. I have to wear my suit on Sunday. Fuck love. Fuck it. I don't want it. And then that carries on. You develop these shields that you put up for the whole

world because of that. That's one of the most common things that people do in terms of our definitions of love. We define it by the people that we're supposed to be the lovers in our lives. But the just unconditional kindness and love. So few people are balanced in

the beginning of the relationship. It's just lust. And then after a while, you get annoyed with each other. And you can't wait to get free and find somebody else who's going to make you happy. They don't make you happy either. And most of us in the early years of our lives, in particular, we bounce around. We try to find a new person that's going to make us happy. That's right. And we attract the kind of people that are the most destructive for us.

I mean, for some strange reason, we're always looking to be distracted. Yes. And when I think when you can learn how to abandon that, and it's not a learn like now I know. It's a slow, gradual process where the instances of cuntiness occur less frequently. Right. Less and less and less and less frequently to your more and more and more kind. And then you get it as good as you can get it on any given day. Yeah.

And that's part of being the hairless ape in this strange land of electronics and concrete buildings. Right. We're still trying to figure out the rules to this completely new way of living. And part of this completely new way of living has shifted over the last 10 years. And that's where the internet comes in. Where in the last 10, 20 years, no more than 24 years, the whole world's changed. Topsy-turvy, up to down.

I mean, the whole thing is just different now. Yeah. It's a different reality. Anybody from any point in the past, if you transported them to today, they'd be living in some fucking Blade Runner movie. I mean, it really is a Ridley Scott film. For sure, if you were living in the 1950s and someone brought you to 2018 and picked you up from the airport in a Tesla, you're on a plane. Seems normal. You're on a plane, just like planes. What are these screens on the seats? Holy shit, there's screens in the seats and someone picks you up in a Tesla. It doesn't make any noise. It's electric

There's a giant laptop in the front of it It shows this huge map and you're driving around and people are taking phone calls in the air. Yeah, just go. Hey, what's up? Mike you're like what you're talking in the car What the fuck they're driving around to all these different places and you see the mass of humans and the architecture change and people would freak the fuck out. Sure. And this is the world that we've totally, completely become accustomed to. That's right.

And no one's prepared for this. We're all just playing it on ear. And the worst aspects of it, some of the chaos and the social upheaval and the way the infighting between people, people getting kicked out of restaurants because they work for the wrong people. Have you seen Maxine Waters telling people that if you find people that work for the Trump administration, you find them in a restaurant, you find them anywhere. You go and you get together a group of people. You build a crowd and you let them know that you don't agree with their policies. Like, whoa! We're calling

for gangs? We're calling for gangs of people randomly in the street to interrupt people's meals, interrupt people in stores, get a crowd together, don't let them be safe in public because you disagree with their policies? Woo! This is getting crazy. And I know one of the policies

is the immigrants, the children of immigrants being separated from their parents, which I'm 100% with you. It's immoral. It's disgusting. It saddens me that it's even considered an option. It makes no sense. I don't give a fuck if they broke the law. You don't take parents and kids and separate them. You just fucking don't.

It's disgusting. There's other ways around it. If you're saying, well, they shouldn't have broke the law. Maybe they shouldn't have broke the law. You don fucking don't. It's disgusting. There's other ways around it. If you're saying, well, they shouldn't have broke the law. Maybe they shouldn't have broke the law. You don't get to do something that's a thousand times worse than crossing a line in the dirt. That fucking imaginary line in the dirt, crossing that is nothing

in comparison to your crime of stealing a baby from its mother. That's fucking insane. That's not America in 2018. That's just insane. And we wouldn't be doing that to Canadians. Okay. If Canadians came over here with their beautiful, cute, blonde haired kids, we're not stealing them from their fucking parents. And that's one of the reasons why it's sick. The whole thing's sick. It's, it's, it's chaos. So in one hand, on one

hand, I understand where a lot of people are outraged and I understand where they're coming from. You shouldn't separate parents from their children in any way, shape, or form. But the way to fix that is not saying anybody who's on that team working for that administration should be chased by a mob of street vigilantes. And you should encourage this mob. Make a crowd. Get everybody together. Make a crowd. Make some noise.

Let them know they're not welcome. Like, whoa. crowd get everybody together make a crowd make some noise let them know they're not welcome like whoa well isn't it isn't like who one of the one of the problems with it is that we now we have a little bit of a a slippery slope like we let's you know i don't want to play mob justice ping pong with you right because if i start playing that with you then that ping pong could potentially turn into a civil war oh do you know there was a recent usa today poll that said 31 percent of america thinks that we're close to a civil war right now now that being said and also people who like fantasize about a civil war i don't know if they've really thought it out all

the way like what that looks like i can answer that for you they definitely have it right so they definitely have it because if they did and they thought it through and thought it was a good idea they're out of their fucking minds they're crazy or they're stupid yeah but but but the i was really passionate about that yeah man well i mean because he wants to fucking be in a goddamn civil war but the the the you know for me when i see shit like that going down um i i see i i've like come up with like i didn't come up with i got it from the fucking dalai lama but i've come up with – I didn't come up with it. I got it from the fucking Dalai Lama. But I've come up with a good little equation to go back to, which is does this reduce suffering?

And I don't think it reduces suffering. And these people who are really upset on both sides of the fence are suffering. Like we're, we're really looking at like a world where a lot of people are deeply upset, deeply suffering and really scared and really, really, really freaking the fuck out. And,

and as I've been watching this thing emerge on the internet, on Twitter, where people tweet things that paint that where you look at it and you think it's almost as though you're living in another world than i am like the world that you're you're talking about man it's fucking terrifying like it's scary and it's like it's it's really fucked up and maybe like the reason I think that is because I started doing LSD when I was 16. So when I was when I was 16, I became brutally aware of the fact that the current government and the past government was repressive. And something about that drug, which I don't do anymore because it's illegal. I was a crazy kid. But something about

that drug really shows you the conditioning. Right. And so I knew from a pretty young age, I was like, oh, wow, I don't I the United States is dropping bombs on other countries because of justice or some threat. It appears to be that some people are making money off of this shit. And I don't think these drugs are illegal because they're bad for you. bad for you. I think they're illegal because somebody doesn't want the herd to experience these states of

consciousness because it will make them more difficult to shear. I had this conversation with Hamilton Morris yesterday and he strongly disagrees because he's talked to the people actually in the DEA. He's talked to the people in drug enforcement. Oh sure. And he said that what really is happening is they have zero experience with these drugs,

but they know these drugs are illegal. And so they pursue it as if it's a viable target. And we talked about it in terms of the real problem with law enforcement being that it's a game. I've always said that the real problem with cops is not cops. The real problem with cops is human nature. This is a bad guy. I get a point if I take him out.

You start looking for bad guys. You start looking for bad guys you start looking for bad guys that aren't even there you start forcing situations yeah yeah yeah i know we get comes yeah sorry no go ahead we get into this a lot i and i don't mean the dea like i've heard the exact same thing about the dea like they don't they i don't even think people above them have experience with it i'm i'm not even so I'm not even talking about people above them. I'm talking about tendencies. So like if an individual has a tendency, right? Like tendency.

So a person has a tendency, then a group of people might have a tendency. For example, if I get a group of Swedish people together and I bring them to the World Cup, they're going to have the tendency to cheer for Sweden right I'm gonna bet on that and gamble on that there's a tendency right right my boss fucking sucks he's a fucking asshole right right then you think back to the way all your other bosses acted and you realize like wait there seems to be a tendency when people are in that

position of power to behave in a certain way right yeah it's hard hard job so so but what i'm saying is is the person who's in the position of power is that thing coming from inside of them or is it that there's something like built in to the dna of a leadership position they say that like in the same way like when you got a pregnant wife some new thing kicks in and i was reading about it built in it feels like where it's like I'm getting a fucking security system I'm fucking like you know what I mean I want to make her safe I want to make sure that like we're saving money we're like you know what I mean I'm working harder than I've ever worked in my fucking life because I want to make sure that like there's plenty for her and plenty for the kid and like something kicks in there's a tendency there right right so what i'm saying is if there seems to be a tendency that happens when there is a a convergence of people in power right it starts behaving in a certain way it builds walls it starts taking people to jail who don't belong in jail it dehumanizes essentially that's the fucking tendency right and so when you're taking a

psychedelic and you look around and you realize oh i see the government though it's filled with people who are wonderful there are people in the fucking dea who listen to your show and guaranteed love the show and are like you you're fucking right, man. I don't want to enforce these goddamn laws arresting people for a thing that is being shown not only to be harmless but potentially therapeutic. There's people in all branches of government, and there's some people who just need a job, and maybe there's some assholes in there. Well, there's some people that want to bust crack dealers. They want to bust assholes that are killing people that happen to also be drug dealers and this is part of the job right so i'm not talking about the individual atomic structure of the power structure i'm talking about the some

total convergence the gestalt of the thing emanates certain behavior patterns right and those fucking behavior patterns those behavior patterns have been going on for a very long time and so forever forever as far as we know right there's always been kings so now i'm not saying like therefore your fear your terror is unjustified i just think maybe because of the garishness of the uh current administration compared to like Obama, who is like, you know, we know what happened with Obama in the NSA. We know what happened with Obama and the drones. We know what happened.

Well, we don't know what all the shit that probably happened with Obama, but we do know with Obama. And I remember hearing this and then looking it up and then looking it up again. He apparently like deported. In fact, maybe please find out if i'm wrong about this so i don't have to deal with seven billion people calling me a fucking motherfucker for the rest of my life but apparently he deported more people than any than all american presidents combined his administration did right deported more people yeah yeah yeah and and and so

now trump he he's at the beginning of the fucking deportation race. Like by the time he's done, he might have beaten Obama's score by a fucking long shot. I don't fucking know. But the main thing is what I'm saying here is like I think I've been aware of the fact that there is something wonky going on. And it's wonky in the most rotten, brutal way. It's wonky in the sense that it kills people it separates children from families not just of immigrants but of farmers some people were growing marijuana and guaranteed their kids are in foster care now and they're in fucking jail

right this has been going on and on and on and on. I think maybe now it's great about the fear that we're seeing and the hyper reaction is if there is anything great about it, is that people are waking up to the fact that our government right now, the American government is out of balance. We've been at war for 90 percent of our history. Right. And there's a lot of shit going on in there that doesn't need to be going on. And we're waking up to it. It's just some people are like, they're waking up to it like they were sleeping someone

threw water in their face. And they're like, holy fucking shit! Holy fucking shit! This is like, you know, this happened, this sounds condescending. I don't mean it to be.

But when I was like 18 or 17 looking at a fucking dollar bill, tripping balls, looking at that fucking green pyramid and the weird symbols, and then thinking like, wait a minute, this is covered with occult symbology. All over it. All over it. And then thinking like, wait a minute, wait, there's something, this isn't really worth anything. this shit this shit this isn't really worth anything like this is just paper and then setting it on fire you know just to do like the worst thing like igniting a joke obviously because

it's illegal to set it on fire right yeah of course it's a joke i would never fucking do that man no way i never ever in a million years would ignite currency not with old glory not with all glory not with the fucking money but i guess what I'm saying is like if there is something positive about the mobs of people doing this or that or the hyper outrage, almost as though like we're looking at an immune response like that's kind of going overboard. Yes, exactly like that. in it it's that it seems that huge swaths of people are becoming familiar with the machinations of the american empire and understanding that here's how it's working right now and um well not only that like this illusion that it worked far differently when obama was in office like have you seen that video or where Obama was running for president and he started talking about how to deal with immigration

and immigration policies? No. It's a disturbing video because it's a Republican viewpoint. The way he's talking about it, it sounds like someone running for a conservative position now. It's not like this Democratic Socialist idea of eliminating ICE.

There's a lot of people that their their their ideas that immigration Customs enforcement those people are monsters and we should eliminate the position We shouldn't have it anymore and we should have open borders and those those Pete same people would love to have Obama in office You know, they would think that it would be great if Obama was here boy It was so much better when Obama was here back play should get him back. Play that video. Find the video of Obama. I think it was, I want to say 2007 or 8 or something like that. Something like that. But it's one of those ones where you're like, whoa, wait a minute.

What? 2005 actually. 2005. You watch it and you go, what? Yeah. Wow. Like this sounds like a Republican. Like imagine. Let's just imagine. Yeah. And imagine this is a young, blonde, white man who's saying this in 2018. Right. Listen to this. Listen, listen to his position. Or and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants. You know, we are a generous and welcoming people here in the United States.

But those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law. Wait, can you pause that? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. May I ask for a pause? What's the date on that video? 2005. That's for sure. what's the date on that video 2005 that's for sure the date on the actual upload flashback 2005 senator uh senator obama published on january 31st 2000 what is that 17 okay now here's the thing man his lips look i might be bullshit i've looked up that obama has deported more people than any american president but we have to be very careful these days because if you look, his lips aren't tracking. Oh, let me see. They are showing disregard

for those who are following the law. Oh, yeah. It's not tracking at all. Well, someone would know if that was a real C-SPAN thing. Well, I think we need to... ...to better secure the border and to punish employers i don't

think that you choose to hire illegal immigrants i'm not saying this because i'm shocked yeah but it's just off but it's the same words we all agree he's saying the same words well can we google find a version of it where it doesn't do that sorry you guys these days man i like no that's right so like and this is a problem we're going to deal with even more like and also i'm not saying like you would never do that. I'm just saying like that looks a little fishy. But you can just look up did Obama deport more people than – That's what I was looking up before you asked me to find the video.

And I'm finding various problems in that statement or statistics. So Snopes has it, but they've changed it to a mixture instead of being true or false because the definition of a deportation was changed at some point in the last couple years the point is he deported a lot of people you know like i don't know like how many or i don't know it wasn't justin trudeau he wasn't just opening borders letting everybody in but dude let's please find out if that fucking clip was actually i think we would know we would know if that clip was bullshit there's no way they would just let it slide if obama never said that there's no way they would just let it slide. If Obama never said that, there's no way they would just let that stay up.

I'd just like to see one where it was synced. Well, you would kind of know because that's a pretty famous clip and it gets used all the time. We all agree on the need to better secure. Okay, sorry. What's up with the fucking thing? To hire illegal immigrants You know, we are a generous and welcoming people Still off

So yeah, you guys are also watching a version That's going through three different machines Are you watching it? Okay, when was it published? When was that uploaded? This was uploaded in 2005 Okay, great, perfect Sorry you guys

You gotta be careful these days though, man Because they're fucking putting out shit That looks real that is not I listened to that Radiolab one Where they were showing how good it is today. It's fucking terrifying. It's close. It's real close to being indistinguishable, especially for you and I. Yeah.

You and I have hundreds of hours of us talking shit and saying things that are ridiculous. Oh, my God. I mean, you and I together probably have over 100 podcasts we've done. Wait till you see the stupid shit people make us say, man. It's going to be so fucking embarrassing. Well, here's the thing. It's embarrassing for you if you watch it. There's a million things to watch.

You're going to watch people put words in your mouth? Yeah, you don't have to watch that. Just keep moving. Keep moving. But, dude, let's get back to this. I like this topic here that we're talking about, which is that there's an imbalance here. There's definitely an imbalance.

I think that imbalance is being exposed by people's real opinion. And this is one of the reasons why actual education and actual like raising of human beings is going to be in critical, critically important. Whereas we ignored it as being not important for a while. Well, it's way more important now because the community has gotten closer than ever. The community of humans. And by not respecting this community and not really concentrating on the way people behave and think rather than what they own or what their job title is or what degree they have, instead of concentrating on one of the things that's most important for us is the way we interact with each other right we have created this issue where now that everyone has a word in you've got all these broken people chiming in yeah throwing in insult bombs and look anytime a woman is in the news who does something remotely questionable, the Caller a Cunt Brigade comes out in full force on Twitter.

And it's all these fake accounts and eggs. And some people in real accounts just want attention. And they just attack. I mean, this is just a real thing. It's not just women. But they do it to men, too. But to women, it always takes on a particularly vile, creepy quality. It's like, finally finally i get to say this

thing and what what has happened there well somebody got raised badly somebody somebody did a terrible job raising a man they got him to this position where there's this broken bundle of emotions and memories and they're all fucked up with no self-esteem yeah and they find some little target online whatever it is and fuck you duncan trussell you fucking sellout faggot and next thing you know they're attacking you and you might just be about to go to the movies with your wife, and you read that, like, what the fuck is this guy's problem, man? I didn't do anything.

You put your phone down, and you go into that theater, and you're all pissed off. I should fucking tweet him back. But you shouldn't. You can't. There's too many people. There's too many people. There's too many people. No way.

And the bad thing is, you're going to miss a lot of the good people. But the good thing is, you're going to miss a lot of the good people. But the good thing is you're going to put a lot out. You have to put a lot of good out there. But you can't dwell too much in the bad. We're going to get through this. This is a tumultuous adolescent stage of human interaction. Yeah, that's right. That's what's happening.

We're going to get through this and reach a much higher level of understanding of each other and a higher level of understanding of community. And, you know, this is why all these school shootings are happening and all this chaos and people driving trucks into crowds and shit. It's because people are feeling out of this project of civilization and culture. They feel horribly suicidal and depressed and confused and hateful and angry. And they're filled up with chemicals and pharmaceuticals and loneliness and confused and hateful and angry. And they're filled up with chemicals and pharmaceuticals and loneliness and despair and anger and resentment

and religious fervor and whatever the fuck else is pushing them through this life. And then they react. They explode. And more explode all over the place. We've got to take away the tools of explosion. No, you've got to figure out why people are exploding. How come no one is concentrating on why people are exploding?

Everyone wants to. The women want to go, oh, it's toxic masculinity. And the men want to go, we're raising pussies. And nobody wants to figure out what the fuck it is. And they just hope that it doesn't happen again. And then it happens again, and the argument starts up. And Ted Nugent calls everybody a cuck. And the fucking people who want the guns

taken away they all fucking storm in and they they demand and they they shriek in front of the senator's house at two o'clock in the morning cunt brigade rolls in cunt brigade rolls in they start tweeting up a cunty storm yeah yeah man this is this is where we're at where we're not examining the behavior and the development of the human being. It's a non-issue in our culture. It's one of the most important things about being a person. You've got to wait until you get to be 30 and you take a fucking Anthony Robbins seminar and try to get your shit together with some voodoo preacher down in Malibu that's doing some rock and roll church Christian thing. And all the cool people go, I want to go sing along.

Jesus, I love you. Oh, it's amazing. The guy plays piano and he fucks everybody he can. It's chaos. This is where we are. This is where we are. We're this tumultuous stage where all this information is flowing around. And we got to come up with management skills. Management skills for behavior and communication.

That's right. And we have to recognize that we're all in this together. Dude, I love that description. It's such a perfect description. And I think that's the main thing for everyone who's freaked out to remind themselves of. It's like, yeah, of course you're freaked out. Of course.

You should be freaked out. This is the right way to feel. In a snowstorm, you're going to feel like, I can't quite see what's up. So definitely, i have to be more compassionate when i when i see people are super freaking out because sometimes i judge them and then and they should be we all have to be more compassionate to ourselves but then so if this is the state of chaos and you're talking about management skills so to speak this is a thing

this guy jack cornfield i have in my podcast sometimes taught me this guy's an he's amazing he's a buddhist teacher but he says tend to the part of the garden that you can touch right and i think that is such incredible incredible instruction that's a great way to put it yeah it's a great way to put it yeah so. It's a great way to put it. Yeah. So it's like in all that chaos that you just described where like you see the thing and you realize like whatever it may be, the thing, the school shooting, the immigration, the bus, the whatever. And you really get this sad feeling. There's nothing I can do about that. And so you like end up online, you're scared. Fear in Buddhism is cold anger. Like when fear gets hot, it turns into anger.

So you're going to turn, you're going to be angry because you're scared. And then you start firing these like shots online. And the entire time you're doing that, the entire time you're doing that, your mother who lives at the other, you know, that the entire time you're doing that your mother who lives at the other you know somewhere in the middle of the country is living by herself in a house where she doesn't have enough money and the house is dilapidated and you haven't been paying attention to her she needs your fucking help right it's not time for you necessarily needs your fucking help right it's not time for you necessarily even though your aspiration to rebalance a democracy is beautiful and we all want that you're fucking neglecting one of your best friends not your mom you know what i'm saying someone you know is exhibiting

like some fucking behaviors that are off a little bit, or somebody in your neighborhood. So it's like the whole time your mind through anger is focusing on the fucking press secretary. Who, by the way, Joe, I don't think the press secretary, I could be totally off on this,

but you want to talk about shooting the fucking messenger, man. That's such a perfect statement. She's the messenger. Literally. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that, that woman, like that, that is a messenger. Like, is she, does she have the most pleasing personality?

Do you agree with her politics? Probably not. But like, come she, does she have the most pleasing personality? Do you agree with her politics? Probably not. But like, come on, man. I'll tell you this much. Can you imagine if she didn't have that kind of personality? Imagine if she was like cheerful. She went up there and Jim Costa was fucking screaming at her. Yeah.

Is that his name? Acosta? Whatever his name is. Boy, that guy gets heckled everywhere he goes now. They put signs up behind him that say CNN sucks. There's some really fun things about the Trump administration. Some really fun things.

And one of the fun things is these people that are journalists that take themselves super serious are getting shit on for the first time. I mean, they're getting, you know, they're getting called out for some of their ridiculous behavior,

like yelling out questions during a press conference, like your question's more important than all the people around you that might be politely raising their hand. You've decided. The world needs to know. The world needs to know. And they're going to hold these people, hold their feet to the fire.

Okay. Maybe. Maybe this is not the way to communicate with people ever. Maybe this Maxine Waters idea of getting people to protest, people in restaurants, and build a crowd and let them know that they're not welcome. Okay, maybe that's the only way, right? Let's just play devil's advocate.

If you're looking at all these people that are imposing these immoral policies, separating children from their parents, which seems to be the most egregious, that's the one that bothers us the most. Everyone. Yeah. That's the one that's most horrific. So how else do you stop that? Way more than bombing them. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, that's far away. That's most horrific. So how would you stop that? Way more than bombing them.

Yeah, it's crazy. Well, that's far away. That's not here. But how do you stop that? If you just let it happen, these smiling demons just pass these laws and laugh in your face and there's no pushback, that doesn't work. So what's the pushback? How do you get pushback? Well, this is where it gets weird.

They might have a point. Okay? If you're dealing with something that's that disgusting, as long as there's no actual violence, if you're dealing with something that's so heinous, you're separating poor people from their parents that are just coming over here, trying to take a chance to get a migrant labor work job. They're trying to pick strawberries or something.

And then you have ICE come in and steal them from their kids and steal their kids from them. And no, you don't, you can't come over here. Who are you protecting, man? Who's who, who are they competing with to get these fucking strawberry picking jobs?

Nobody. This is bullshit. Right. How do you stop that from happening? Well, what about the law? So in the middle, until this law gets changed,

until we reconsider the, the humane aspects of this law, how many people's lives are going to get ruined? How many thousands of kids are going to get traumatically separated from their parents and develop to become a more fucked up person who truly resents and hates the United States? And get molested by some ICE agents. Oh, Jesus. Could that happen?

It did. I'm sure. It already happened. I'm sure. I'm not surprised. I don't even want to know the story. It's that, but how would you stop that? I don't know how you would stop that, but one of the only ways that I could think of

being really, really effective in getting a message across is to make it super uncomfortable for people that push that message through. People that support that policy, people that think it's not a big deal. Did you hear Jeff Sessions gave a speech where they made a joke about separating kids from their families and the audience laughed pull pull that up it's it's on it was on the cover of like every news source today here we go fucking sessions but this poor little fuck it's the same thing with him like this guy he just stopped evolving and he got into this and he's not getting information he's not getting it he's not he's not interacting with people he's not evolving his

ideas yeah he's stuck on this people who smoke marijuana are bad people phase which is like some 1930s shit i know he's a moron you know in a lot of ways and this is the product of his environment it's a product of his interactions and the ecosystem that he exists in. He exists in this bubble. Jeff Sessions speaking out about separating families. From the other side on this issue, as on many others, has become radicalized. We hear views on television today that are on the lunatic fringe, frankly. And what is perhaps more galling is the hypocrisy. These same people

live in gated communities, many of them, and are featured at events where you have to have an ID to even come in and hear them speak. I like the little security around themselves. And if you try to scale the fence, believe me, they'll be even too happy to have you arrested and separated from your children. It seemed like that joke was actually written for him, which is interesting. Says the fucking guy getting people arrested for marijuana. What a loon. Well, you know, obviously, fucking dummy. There's a bigger difference between someone breaking into your house and breaking into the country to try to get a job you're not saying that people should break

into people's houses the main thing is jeff sessions is like it represents something in the world and what that thing is is a force that is actively trying to reduce love in the universe. And it's fucking real. And so that's the, if you want to come up with a nice war or a name for what's happening, this revolution that's happening, and it is, is we're pushing back against that. Okay, can I be the devil's advocate?

I'll be the devil again. Sure. That's not what he's doing. He's supporting the law. We have a law. And this is how we keep a beautiful country like America. The reason why we have nice clean streets, the reason why we have cops and Social Security, it's because we have rules.

And as soon as we just allow people to bypass those rules, people that don't agree with our way of life, they don't support our way of life, they just want to come over here and mooch off the system. That's harder for you. It's harder for him. It's harder for everybody else. All Johnny Taxpayer out there has to pay for these migrants. So you don't even know. They're not even a part of your clan. They're from another close-by clan.

I know, Jeff. But here's the bigger problem. This is the big problem, man. Okay. And you're right. Everything you just said, Mr. Sessions. Too legit to quit? said, Mr. Sessions. Too legit to quit? Hey, hey.

As far as the rules of the game, in some ways, I guess it's true. But if we look at it from a bigger perspective, which your type really doesn't like at all for some reason. But maybe it's just because you're old and your body probably hurts a little bit. And also, that fucking butt plug that I would bet $200,000 that you have shoved into your asshole right now. All the time you think? I think all the fucking time. And I think it's like,

I think I get the, I get a big BDSM vibe from that too, but that's just me. I don't think it's true. I don't know. Here's my point, man. You,

there's a bigger thing happening. And that bigger thing is like, is, is just, it's for a lot of people, it's unpalatable because it's so complex and we don't yet know how to do it. But we live on a planet, and you say this all the time,

where we are all people. We are planetarians. We are earthlings, right? We happen to have been born into a country, this country or that country. Some of these countries have big fucking walls around them because there's prosperity inside that country. And there's prosperity inside that country and there's not prosperity in other places. And people are suffering. They're suffering bad, dude.

Bad, bad, bad suffering where it's like they can't's like they can't they can't live in some of these places without getting killed for sure the chance of them getting killed is high for whatever reason and they're just doing what any living organism does they're trying to get to a better spot also mr sessions you probably don't believe in it but once those fucking ice caps melt holy fuck when the cities in the next 50 years or so become inundated with water and people have to start moving more and more and more from places that are becoming uninhabitable. What do you think that's going to happen? I don't know, man, but let's just say it's, let's make a long date.

So what do we do, Duncan? We just open up the borders for everybody? Mr. Sessions, I don't fucking know. But I can tell you this. If we start approaching this from the perspective of love, which is the perspective of like we don't need to separate them from their kids. And there might be a way to do this that eases their suffering a little bit more. I don't know what it is. But from looking at what you're doing right now, that ain't it. And I think we can do it better.

I don't know what it is, but I think if we get a lot of people together and really think about it and figure it out, I'm not talking redistribution of wealth or some kind of crazy communist shit. I'm just saying, I know for sure we can do better than those goddamn aluminum blankets you're putting on those fucking kids. Can we get a guitar player in here in here hey maybe we can get some beds in here is there a way to like you know there's just all kinds of shit we could do i think that's better why would that help though what i mean the people are still going to come over here they're still going to be in prison so you play the guitar is that really no i'm not saying play the guitar to solve the immigration problem if that worked i'm sure the

immigration problem would be solved i'm just saying that the current methodology seems to be a little more sadistic than it needs to be that's all i don't know the answer i don't know what the answer is but i do know we're converging as a species and uh i would imagine that as technology continues to connect us we're going to be transcending nationalities in a way that aren't going to be palatable to people yeah like jeff sessions and i think that that's a um uh that's what's happening so what do we do now what would you like honestly like i'm not jeff sessions anymore i'm me now i'm me hey talking to you again um what would you do well for okay i i'll give you my response to that which isn't going to be right, because I don't really, I don't understand the issue at a level deep enough, right?

So can I just say like one, there's many, it's a complex situation. There's not one answer to it, right? You just let anybody in who's not a criminal? See, here's the thing, it's hard to get in. How do we detect that? Well, we'd have to have some sort of faith in their records so we would have to help their record keeping so really what we want the really the way to do it correctly is first of all anyone who's attached to us whether it's mexico or canada make sure they're okay make sure that they are viable and stable and help them

that's the real thing treat them as if they're a colony of the united states they're like not that they're not sovereign that they're still mexico but like treat them like they are connected to us and we don't want them to be fucked up and crazy instead of building up a wall make it so that nobody wants to come over here like that seems to be the prosperity way to go about it like to say hey you know mexico's fucking beautiful all right there's a reason why people vacation in mexico it's fucking amazing okay you go to punta mita or uh fucking uh puerto vallarta or cabo or yeah tulum there's it's fucking beautiful yeah the idea that it's beautiful and also dangerous and scary and filled with crime, that's fucking stupid.

So then you would go, well, what's the problem here? Well, the problem here is drugs are illegal. Drugs are illegal, and the United States wants to buy a bunch of drugs. So all these people are making billions of dollars selling drugs. There's only one way to do that. You've got to kill cops. You've got to kill cops. You've got to kill rats.

You've got to kill rivals. You've got to kill whoever the fuck you've got to kill. And you've got to send a message. You've got to hang people. You've got to kill rats. You've got to kill rivals. You've got to kill whoever the fuck you've got to kill. And you've got to send a message. You've got to hang people from fucking bridges and shit. You've got to do things to send a message that you're ruthless and you're here to get that money. And there's a lot of that going on. And that is no different than Al Capone during the fucking prohibition of alcohol in the United States of America. It's the same goddamn thing.

You make something illegal that everybody wants and only criminals are willing to sell it. And boom, you got a thriving criminal economy. There you go. And so we're stuck next to a thriving criminal economy with no management of it whatsoever other than bullets. Right. So occasionally they throw some bullets into these people and then they come back stronger than ever because there's more drug money and there's less of them. And the one person gets stronger and El Chapo digs a fucking hole a mile through the ground and gets out of jail again.

Awesome. The whole thing is crazy, but this is what we're next to. And so instead of saying, hey, we've got to make a fucking wall, what we should be saying is, what do we have to do to not just fix Mexico, not just help them and come up with some sort of strategy and a plan to build them up almost as equals, but we've got to fix our fucking poor neighborhoods.

We've got to fix these fucking neighborhoods that have been drenched in poverty since the 1920s. How about fix them? Fix them. Put some energy into it. Put some planning. Hire people. The same way Halliburton hires people to fucking rebuild shit we blow up in Iraq, they should be hiring people to figure out how to rebuild these communities. Figure out how to give people jobs. Figure out how

to develop community centers so that kids have somewhere to go there where they can learn and be productive so you're developing less losers. Giving people hopes and dreams. Giving them things that they can put their energy to that make them feel good about life. Give them skills and games that they can play and things they could do where they get good at it. Where they develop self-esteem which is one of the most terrible things about growing up in an impoverished, crime-ridden, gang-infested neighborhood is you feel like you're nothing. You're nothing. Your life can be taken away at any moment.

You've got to be careful where you go. Bullets are flying. People are getting killed. People are killing people over words and insults and fucking territory for drugs. And your aunt's on crack and your uncle's in jail. And it just seems like there's no fucking hope. And no one does anything about it. No one does anything, but a few people do things about it.

A lot of people dedicate their lives to it. But it's not enough from a governmental level. No one in the top of the organization is looking at this big thing and saying, they're all going, hey, we've got to drill more oil. Hey, we've got to do it with the resources, the resources. What about our greatest resource? Human beings. The greatest way to make America great again is to have less losers.

The way to have less losers is you've got to find the spots that are sick and heal them. Yes. Yeah. Find these communities that have the momentum of poverty and crime and violence, and it's existed for as long as we can think. For decades. Fix them. Fix them. And have a concerted effort to fix them.

And bring everybody together. Bring everybody together. And instead of this idea that we're all separate and we're all fucking two-party right-left nonsense, this civil war between Trump supporters and people want to kick people out of restaurants. How about we all realize that if we're going to treat each other as Americans, we're going to agree that we're on this team.

We got to start acting like teammates. That's it. Yeah. So you don't like what the coach is saying? Let's find common ground. Instead of always searching for the negative in things, instead of reinforcing ridiculous ideas because you know that that's what your team supports. Like, I see a lot of people online

talking about this immigrant issue, and they either don't have kids or they don't think it could happen to their kids. Their idea is, hey, shouldn't have fucking come over here. You get those kind of people. Broke the law. Shouldn't have fucking come over here if you're a kid. You didn't want to get your kids separated.

If you were in the presence of a woman who came over here from Guatemala and she's poor and she's starving and they're taking her baby away and she's wailing and screaming from a primal place in her DNA that the one thing she loves

more than anything is being taken away. A baby. If that doesn't freak you the fuck out, you're not a part of the team, man. You're missing it. You're missing it. What are we here for?

We're here for 100 years of whatever. That's what we're here for. If you want to spend 100 years saying, hey, you should have fucking broke the law, I don't want you on the team. You're an asshole, right? And I don't give a fuck if you're right or left. I don't care if you're religious or I don't care if you're an atheist. If that's what you support,

you're an asshole and we don't want you on our team. Okay? So, but if you agree with certain economic policies that I don't agree with and we could have a discussion about it, we could figure out why you agree

and we could figure out why people are allowing all of this money to get into politics. Why are we allowing all these special interest groups and lobbyists to interfere with our laws and influence our politicians and create all this shit that we don't want? Well,

here's the number one reason. You can't just vote online. You can't just vote. It's not one person, one vote. It's the electoral college and there's a lot of checks and balances that are in place. It's all wonderful and groovy, but it's not giving the trust to the people. The trust of the people that they're informed, that they can make their groovy, but it's not giving the trust to the people. The trust of the people that they're informed that they can make their own decisions, that more people should be able to make the decision. But they're happening now. That 28-year-old girl who won in New York.

I know, dude. 28-year-old Democratic Socialist. Whether I agree with her or not, and I don't know if I do or don't, I bet I agree with her on a lot of things. I think education should be free. I think we should figure out a way. If we could pay for bombs, we could pay for schools. I think this idea that everybody should have healthcare, it's a

great idea. Who the fuck wants people to not be healthy? Who wants people to be hurt and not be able to fix it? Are you really saying that struggling people should have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to get fixed when we could maybe chip in and help members of our team? That's stupid.

Can't fill it up. Figure it out yourself. I had to. You got lucky, bitch. You got lucky you don't have leukemia. You didn't break both your legs when you were 18. Your parents are dead. You got lucky, piece of shit.

These are people on our team. I'm not talking about people who are lazy, good for nothing, losers, mooching off the system. You're going to have that too. Well, we got to figure out how to educate people so that that happens less and less. That's what we got to figure out how to do. That's it. Yeah. You just described it.

I mean, that is it. I don't know what to call that thing you just talked about, but like that's happening everywhere. That's not just happening in the United States. That's a global shift that's happening. Did you see the video of when she found out she won? It's amazing. Play it. It's like one of the realest moments.

And look, people are angry. 28-year-olds, what the fuck does she know? What she doesn't know, she'll learn. Let's find out. Let's find out what she learns. Maybe she knows a lot. What the fuck do you know? That's ridiculous.

I like the fact she wasn't supposed to win. I like the fact that the guy who was an incumbent was a 10-term incumbent. And that he spent 10 to 1 versus on her. How much money she spent? 10 to 1. And grassroots got her elected, man. And that's how this – that can happen. Dude, she's a kid.

Yeah. And she's pretty. She's a pretty, young 28-year-old. I mean, watch this. Watch this shit when she wins. Play this. She's looking at herself on television right now. How are you feeling?

Can you put it into words? Nope. I cannot put this into words. She won. There you go. And look, you know, I don't know if democratic socialism is the answer, but I know it's a part of the conversation. Yep. And this is the thing, locking out any ideology in this team

as part of the conversation like what does democratic socialism entail like what does it entail i'm i don't i don't buy all this the market will take care of care of itself bullshit i think there's a certain amount of us we have to chip into the community pile yeah i think that's real the real problem is how efficient and good is the community pile? Are they a bunch of lazy cunts in the community pile? Is there waste and nonsense and bullshit? And these people that have those jobs you were talking about earlier, they're told, slow down, slow down. I know you could do this in two hours, but you can get an eight-hour day out of this. Just don't fuck this up.

How much of that's going on? I don't want any of that going on. But if the community pile is taking care of it and managed in an honest and a way that's trustworthy and great for all involved and beneficial to the community and supportive of community values and love and this idea that we're all on a team and that you're going to be okay. Did you break your leg, Duncan? Hey, you're going to be okay. And we make fun of Canada's healthcare and it's not the best. It's not the best. I have friends, my friend Jen, she broke her fucking knee. She had to get a ACL reconstruction.

They kind of botched it and they had to go back in and fix it again. She had to wait forever. It's not the best, but it's there. It's something. And it may be that can be improved. I may be improving. That is better. Let me throw this in.

And I also have options, but I also believe in options for people to do it better. Like the surgeons that you can get in the United States. Like there's a guy, Dr. Gettleman, the guy who fixed my knee. He's a fucking wizard. This guy's really good. He does a lot of pro athletes. I mean, he did a great fucking job reconstructing my knee. He's an artist. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone like that getting paid more. I don't think someone like, wrong with someone like that getting paid more. I think LeBron James should get paid more for playing basketball than me. If I was playing basketball, I shouldn't get paid as much as him.

He's fucking way better. I think that there's that with doctors as well. I think with everything as well. But I think that it's a lot like there's a lot of people that are state-funded prosecutors or defense attorneys where people can't afford it. You get – what is that called?

Public defender. Public defender, yeah. There's a lot of people that are really good, really good, young, hungry, very good at it. They're going to put in their time in the public sector or doing it for the public, public defender, and then they eventually go on to maybe even not do that. Maybe they just get satisfaction out of helping people that don't have any money. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't have high-priced lawyers as well. And it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to pursue excellence

and be rewarded for that excellence and be able to do whatever the fuck they want with it, whether they want to be charitable with that money or whether they want to be selfish with that money. If they're pursuing excellence and through their excellence, they manage to amass an extreme amount of wealth, playing the guitar, whatever the fuck they do. There's nothing wrong with that either. We've got to stop thinking there's something wrong with that. But chipping in and everybody putting into the company pile is, in a sense, some form

of socialism, right? Like, we agree on some kind of socialism. When you consider the fire department, the police department, this is like social things, right? We put money into it. It's not a total redistribution of wealth, like deciding how much rich people should make. But it is deciding, you've got to chip in. We've all got to chip in. Everybody's got to chip in.

Sure. We just don't feel like the chipping in is good. We feel like it's all fucked up. We feel like there's a bunch of dummies out there, like this Jeff Sessions guy. That guy gets paid for my chip. This fucking dummy. And all these fucking people that are robbing the system with their two-hour-a-day jobs that they're stretching out to eight hours. That builds resentment.

It's poor management. And it's also people that are listless. And they're stretching out to eight hours, that builds resentment. Right. It's poor management. And it's also people that are listless. And they have these, they're not valuable jobs. They're not like a job that commands the same sort of attention as like some of the more attractive jobs that people seek out. Yeah, man. It's all of it true. I just think it's what people think is, let's wait for the government to do this yeah

and that's where i think the problem is like instead of thinking like okay yeah all that's true let's like figure out a way to get more taxpayer money out of the military industrial complex out of the prisons and let's put it in the neighborhoods that need it let's get it for funding education all of that is really beautiful. But when it's still and you want to vote and make all that happen, grassroots movements, all of it. But also think of the term socialism, right? Just what is it? Social. It's like you don't have to wait for the state to come and start figuring out ways to tax people to make that pile of money happen. Like this is where I think it's an interesting thing to start exploring the idea of like intentional communities.

I'm not saying starting a commune or anything like that, but you can actually push your friendship group to the next level. Like it doesn't just have to be a random group of friends who knows each other. Like you can start that pile of opulence with a group of friends where it's like, you know what I mean? A group of friends can just agree with each other. Like,

Hey man, just so you know, you're not going to be homeless. I got you. I'm not going to fucking give you money all the goddamn time. And if you like, you know, if you're like, you don't even have to say any of this shit. Except, hey, we're. You're always okay.

You're okay. I got you. Right? Dude, that's what you and I did when you moved in with me. I know, Joe. I know, man. I forget about that sometimes. We lived together for like six months.

I don't forget about it that kind of thing which is what I'm saying is like everyone right now and I understand why man but to me there seems to be something demonic about the public fixation on the state it's like the state

is this like dragon and it's like I think it's like the state is this like dragon and it's like god like it's a well i think it's a daddy it's a daddy it's a multi-armed daddy with a bunch of fucking laser pointers that it's got the entire population watching like cats running around right right we're all like oh god they did that oh my god he did that oh my god they God, they did that. When will this change? When will this change? Your phone's ringing. Guess who's fucking calling?

Your dad. When was the last time you talked to your dad? Three months ago. Call your fucking dad back. The whole time you're like, the whole time you're neglecting your family. You're neglecting your neighborhood. You're walking down the street,

looking at your phone like, fuck he said that i'm writing a fucking blog about that guess what you're walking by dude you're walking by fucking plastic bottles piles of fucking trash three fucking meth addicts and some fucking woman who just got beaten by her husband is now living on the streets for the last couple of weeks and you've got fucking forty thousand dollars in the bank account liquid i like saying to the garden you can touch yes yes tend to the garden you can touch and do it in an organized way and then like maybe okay but don't you have a garden that you can touch that's giant like think about that think about what you've done during this podcast and some of the things that you've said. You basically touched an enormous garden. Sure.

That's a really easy way to do it because I'm a yappy motherfucker. I'm talking about like— No, in your life too, but that counts too. I think it does count, but I think that it would be easy to do things like that and still forget about something that's really basic, which is now that I'm talking about this shit, I'm thinking to myself right now, like, in my neighborhood, I'm thinking, like, wait a minute, like, what am I not doing? I don't know what it is yet, but I guarantee there's something that I could do. And I like that, man, because you know, like, tithing to the church? Yes.

So to me, I think we may have talked about this before, but I get it and all. But like, that has always seemed like a really boring way to do it. Like the plate comes by, you throw some money in, it goes to church stuff. Like the plate comes by, you throw some money in, you don't, it goes to church stuff. You don't know. But the idea of tithing, I think there's something to it, which is like, if you just kind of look at your income and you think, all right, 5% of this shit is going to get spent or 10% or whatever you're comfortable with. I'm putting that in a pile. And that pile is going to helping people in my neighborhood or my friends or my family. And I'm just going to give that away.

And I think there's something to be said for that because right now I think we were a little too fixated on the daddy state helping us. And I think it's more important that we start helping each other and forming communities that are based on love and friendship and just figure it out. Some of the communities are going to fail. Some of them are going to get a couple of assholes in there who are con artists and trick everybody or lazy people. But the main thing is, is like, let's start thinking in terms of organizing into communities that aren't based on a fixation on the government

right now. And then let's see what happens. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, we conclude another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. I'd like to thank my guest, Duncan Trussell. Thank you. The great Duncan Trussell. Praise Odin. Hare Krishna.

Young Jamie on the mic And the work of the keys In the background And all of you fucks Love you Love for everybody We can do this folks We are doing it We're doing this

We're gonna be okay Bye