The Joe Rogan Experience - #1169 - Elon Musk

Episode Date: September 7, 2018

Elon Musk is a business magnet, investor and engineer.

Ah. Ha, ha, ha. Four, three, two, one. Boom. Thank you. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it. You're welcome.

Very good to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. And thanks for not lighting this place on fire. You're welcome. That's coming later. How does one, just in the middle of doing all the things you do, create cars, rockets, all this stuff you're doing, constantly innovating, decide to just make a flamethrower.

Where do you have the time for that? Well, we didn't put a lot of time into the flamethrower. This was an off-the-cuff thing. And so it's sort of a hobby company called The Boring Company, sort of like, it's sort of a hobby company called The Boring Company, which started out as a joke, and we decided to make it real and dig a tunnel under LA.

And then other people asked us to dig tunnels, and so we said yes in a few cases. And then we have a merchandise section that only has one piece of merchandise at a time. And we started off with a cap. And there was only one thing. It was just boringcompany.com slash cap or hat. That's it.

And then we sold the hats, limited edition. It just said The Boring Company. And then I'm a big fan of Spaceballs the movie. And in Spaceballs yogurt goes through the merchandising section

and they have a flamethrower in the merchandising section of Spaceballs. And like the kids love that one. That's the line. When he pulls out the flamethrower it's like we should do a flamethrower so we does anybody tell you no does anybody go elon um

maybe for yourself but selling a flamethrower the liabilities all the people you're selling this device to what kind of unhinged people are going to be buying a flamethrower in the first place? Do we really want to connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists? Yeah, it's a terrible idea. Terrible. I shouldn't buy one. I said don't buy this flamethrower. Don't buy it.

Don't buy it. That's what I said. But still people bought it. There's nothing I can do to stop them. I could not stop them. I said don't buy it it's a bad idea how many did you make you it's dangerous it's got it's wrong don't buy it still people bought it I couldn't stop them how many did you make 20,000 And they're all gone. In three, I think four days. They sold out in four days.

Are you going to do another run? No. No, that's it? Yes. I said we would do 20,000. We did 50,000 hats. And that was a million dollars. And he's like, okay, we'll sell something for 10 million. And that was 20,000 flamethrowers at $500 each.

They went fast. How do you have the time to do that, though? I mean, I understand that it's not a big deal in terms of all the other things that you do, but how do you have time to do anything?, though? I mean, I understand that it's not a big deal in terms of all the other things you do. But how do you have time to do anything? I just don't understand your time management skills. I mean, I didn't spend much time on this flamethrower. I mean, to be totally frank, it's actually just a roofing torch with an air rifle cover.

It's not a real flamethrower. Which is why it says not a flamethrower. That's why we were very clear. This is not actually a flamethrower. Which is why it says not a flamethrower. That's why we were very clear. This is not actually a flamethrower. And also we were told that various countries would ban shipping of it. They would ban flamethrowers. So to solve this problem for all the customs agencies, we labeled it not a flamethrower.

Did it work? Was it effective? I don't know. I think so yes so far yes now but you said you cannot strip a flamethrower but you do so many different things forget about the flamethrower like how do you do all that other shit like how do you how do you how does one decide to fix la traffic by drilling holes in the ground and who do you even approach with that like when you have this, who do you talk to about that? I mean, I'm not saying it's going to be successful or something, you know, I know, it's like asserting that it's going to be successful. But so far, I've lived in LA for

16 years, and the traffic has always been terrible. And so I don't see any other ideas for improving the traffic. So in desperation, we're going to dig a tunnel. And maybe that tunnel will be successful, and maybe it won't. I'm listening. Yeah. I'm not trying to convince you it's going to work. And are the people that you're – Or trying to convince you it's going to work. Or anyone. But you were starting this, though.

This is actually a project you're starting to implement, right? Yeah, we've dug about a mile. It's quite long. It takes a long time to walk it. Yeah. Now, when you're doing this, what is the ultimate plan? The ultimate plan is to have these in major cities and anywhere there's mass congestion and just try it out in L.A. first? Yeah, it's in L.A. because I mostly live in L.A.

That's the reason. It's a terrible place to dig tunnels. This is one of the worst places to dig tunnels because the – mostly because of the paperwork. People think it's like what about seismic? It's like actually tunnels are very safe in earthquakes. Why is that? Earthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon. It's like waves on the ocean.

So if there's a storm, you want to be in a submarine. So being in a tunnel is like being in a submarine. Now, the way the tunnel is constructed is it's constructed out of these interlocking segments, kind of like a snake. It's sort of like a snake exoskeleton with double seals. And so even when the ground moves, the tunnel actually is able to shift along with the ground, like an underground snake. And it doesn't crack or break. And it's extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken. And it's capable of taking five atmospheres of pressure. It's waterproof, methane-proof, or gas-proof of any kind, and meets all California seismic requirements.

So when you have this idea, who do you bring this to? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Well, when you're implementing it, so you're digging holes in the ground. You have to bring it to someone that lets you do it. Yeah, so there were some engineers from SpaceX who thought it would be cool to do this. And the guy who runs it, like, day-to-day is Steve Davis. He's a longtime SpaceX engineer. He's great.

So Steve was like, I'd like to help make this happen. I was like, cool. So we started off with digging a hole in the ground. He was like, I'd like to help make this happen. I was like, cool. So we started off with digging a hole in the ground. It's got like a permit for a pit, big pit, and just dug a big pit. And do you have to tell them what the pit's for or you just say, hey, we just want to dig a hole? I just fill out this form. That's it?

Yeah, it was a pit in our parking lot. But do you have to give them some sort of a blueprint for your ultimate idea? And do they have to approve it? Like, how does that work? No, we just started off with a pit. Okay. A big pit. And they don't really care about the existential nature of a pit.

You just say, like, I want a pit. Right. Yeah. And it's a hole in the ground. So then we got the permit of a pit. You just say, like, I want a pit. Right. Yeah. And it's a hole in the ground. So then we got the permit for the pit, and we dug the pit. And we dug it in, like, I don't know, three days, two, three days. Actually, I think 48 hours, something like that. Because Eric Garcetti was coming by for the hype to,

he was going to attend the Hyperloop competition, which is like a student competition we have for who can make the fastest pod in the Hyperloop. And he was coming – the finals were going to be on Sunday afternoon. And so Eric was coming by on Sunday afternoon. He was like, you know, we should take this pit and then, like, show Eric. So we – this was, like, Friday morning. And then, yeah, so it was about a little over 40 hours later, we dug the pit. It was, like, we're in 24-7, or 24, 48 straight hours, something like that. And dug this big pit.

And we, like, showed Eric the pit. Like, obviously, it's just a pit. But, hey, hole in the ground is better than no hole in the ground. And what do you tell them about this pit? I mean, you just said this is the beginning of this idea. Yes. We're going to build tunnels under LA to help funnel traffic better. And they just go, okay.

We've joked around about this in the podcast before. They're like, what other person can go to the people that run the city and go, hey, I'm going to dig some holes in the ground and put some tunnels in there. And they go, oh, yeah, okay. Nothing wrong with a hole in the ground. People dig holes in the ground all the time. But my question is, like, I know how much time you must be spending on your Tesla factory. I know how much time you must be spending on SpaceX.

And yet you still have time to dig holes under the ground in LA and come up with these ideas and then implement them. I got a million ideas. I'm sure you do. There's no shortage of that. Yeah. I just don't know how you manage your time. I don't understand it. It doesn't even seem humanly possible.

You know, I do basically – I think people don't totally understand what I do with my time. They think I'm a business guy or something like that. My Wikipedia page says business magnate. What would you call yourself? I'm a business magnet. Can someone please change my Wikipedia page to magnet? They'll change it right now. It's probably already changed.

It's locked. So somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to magnet. I want to be a magnet. They'll change it right now. Please change it. It's probably already changed. It's locked. So somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to magnet. Someone will get that. I want to be a magnet. I do engineering and manufacturing and that kind of thing. That's like 80% or more of my time. Ideas and then the implementation of those ideas. That's like hardcore engineering.

Yeah. Designing things. Right. does like hardcore engineering like you know designing things you know right structural mechanical electrical software uh user interface engineering aerospace engineering but you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you you know that right to your inaudible yes to chimps like me we're all chimps we're one notch above a chimp some of us are a little more confused

when I watch you doing all these things I'm like how does this motherfucker have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas and then people just let him do these things because I'm an alien that's what I've speculated I'm on record saying this in the past.

I wonder. It's true. If there was one. I was like, if there was maybe an intelligent being that we created, like some AI creature that's superior to people, maybe it would just hang around with us for a little while like you've been doing and then fix a bunch of shit. Maybe that's the way.

I might have some mutation or something like that. You might. Do you think you do? Probably. Do you wonder? Like, are you around normal people? You're like, hmm. Like, what's up with these boring, dumb motherfuckers? Ever? Not bad for a human. But I think

we'll not be able to hold a candle to AI. Hmm. You scare the shit out of me hold a candle to AI. You scare the shit out of me when you talk about AI, between you and Sam Harris. I didn't even consider it until I had a podcast with Sam once. That's great. He made me shit my pants. Talking about AI, I realized like,

oh, well, this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle, you're never getting it back in. That's true. There was a video that you tweeted about one of those boston dynamic robots and you're like in the future it'll be moving so fast you can't see it without a strobe light yeah you could probably do that right now and no one's really uh paying attention too much other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology all these things are happening. These robots are... Did you see the one where

PETA put out a statement that you shouldn't kick robots? It's probably not wise. For retribution. Their memory is very good. I bet it's really good. It's really good. I bet it is. And getting better every day. It's really good. Are you honestly

legitimately concerned about this? Is AI one of your main worries in regards to the future? Yes. It's less of a worry than it used to be, mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude. So you used to have more hope and you gave up some of it and now you don't worry as much about AI. You're like, this is just what it is. Pretty much.

No, it's not necessarily bad. It's just, it's definitely going to be outside of human control. Not necessarily bad, right? Yes, it's not necessarily bad. It's just outside of human control. Now, the thing that's going to be tricky here is that it's going to be very tempting to use AI as a weapon. It's going to be very tempting. In fact, it will be used as a weapon. So the on-ramp to serious AI, the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other, I think, most likely.

That'll be the danger. Yeah. How far do you think we are from something that can make its own mind up, whether or not something's ethically or morally correct, or whether or not it wants to do something, or whether or not it wants to improve itself, or whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other AI? How far away are we from something that's really truly sentient? Well, I mean, you could argue that any group of people, like a company is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines.

That's what a company is. And then there are different levels of complexity in the way these companies are formed. And then there's sort of like a collective AI in the Google search, where we're all sort of plugged in as like nodes on the network, like leaves on a big tree. And we're all feeding this network with our questions and answers. We're all collectively programming the AI. And Google plus the older humans that connect to it

are one giant cybernetic collective. This is also true of Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all these social networks. They're giant cybernetic collectives. Humans and electronics all interfacing and constantly now, constantly connected.

Yes. Constantly. One of the things that I've been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how many people

are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest, greatest thing. And I wonder how much of that is, well, a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation. And it almost seems like it's built into us. It's like what we like and what we want, that we're fueling this thing that's constantly around us all the time. And it doesn't seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes. It doesn't seem possible at this stage when we're constantly expecting the newest cell phone, the latest Tesla update, the newest MacBook Pro. Everything has to be newer and better.

And that's going to lead to some incredible point. And it seems like it's built into us. It almost seems like it's an instinct that we're working towards this, that we like it. Our job, just like the ants build the anthill, our job is to somehow or another fuel this. Yes. I mean, I made this comment some years ago, but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for AI, effectively. We are building it. And then we're building progressively greater intelligence.

And the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing. And eventually, we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence. But the AI is informed strangely by the human limbic system. It is in large part our id writ large.

How so? We mentioned all those things, the sort of primal drives. There's all the things that we like and hate and fear. They're all there on the internet. They're a projection of our limbic system. It's true. No, it makes sense. And the thinking of it as a, I mean, thinking of corporations and just thinking of just human beings communicating online

through these social media networks as some sort of an organism, that's a, it's a cyborg. It's a combination. It's a combination of electronics and biology. Yeah. In some measure, like, the success of these online systems is sort of a function of how much limbic resonance they're able to achieve with people. The more limbic resonance, the more engagement. Whereas like one of the reasons why probably Instagram is more enticing than Twitter.

Limbic resonance. Yeah. You get more images, more video. Yes. Tweaking your system more. Yes. Do you worry or wonder, in fact, about what the next step is? I mean, a lot of people didn't see Twitter coming,

that communicating with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in. Like, it's going to become more connected to us, right? Yes, things are getting more and more connected. They're at this point constrained by bandwidth. Our input output is slow, particularly output. Output got worse with thumbs. You know, we used to have input with 10 fingers.

Now we have thumbs. But images are also a way of communicating at high bandwidth. You take pictures and you send pictures to people. That communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumbs. So what happened with you where you decided or you took on a more fatalistic attitude? Was there any specific thing or was it just the inevitability of our future? I try to convince people to slow down,

slow down AI, to regulate AI. This was futile. I tried for years this seems nobody listen in a movie nobody robots are gonna fucking take over you're freaking me out nobody listened nobody listen no one are people more inclined to listen today it seems like an issue that's brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe five, 10 years ago. It seemed like science fiction. Maybe they will. So far they haven't. I think people don't like the normally the way that regulations work is very slow,

very slow indeed. So usually there will be something, some new technology. It will cause damage or death. There will be an outcry. There will be an investigation. Years will pass. There will be some sort of insight committee. There will be rulemaking. Then committee. There will be rulemaking. Then there will be oversight, eventually regulations.

This all takes many years. This is the normal course of things. If you look at, say, automotive regulations, how long did it take for seatbelts to be implemented, to be required? to be implemented, to be required. The auto industry fought seatbelts, I think, for more than a decade. Successfully fought any regulations on seatbelts, even though the numbers were extremely obvious. If you had a seatbelt on, you would be far less likely to die or be seriously injured. It was unequivocal.

And the industry fought this for years, successfully. Eventually, after many, many people died, regulators insisted on seatbelts. This is a... This time frame is not relevant to AI.

You can't take 10 years from the point at which it's dangerous. It's too late. And you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late? If you have this fatalistic attitude and you feel like we're in we're in a almost like a doomsday countdown it's not necessarily a doomsday countdown it's it's a out of control countdown out of control yeah people call it the singularity and uh that's that's probably a good way to think about it it's a singular it's hard to predict like a black hole what what happens past the event horizon right so

once it's implemented it's very different because it it wants to change out of the bottle what's going to happen and it will be able to improve itself yes that's where it gets spooky right the idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation we're very very quickly yeah and then we'll be just ridiculous ridiculous we will be like this ridiculous biological shitting pissing thing trying to stop the gods no stop we like we like living with a finite lifespan and and watching you know norman rockwell paintings it could be terrible and it could be great it's not not clear. Right. But one thing is for sure, we will not

control it. Do you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it'll augment what we are now? Or do you think it will replace us? Well, that's the scenario. The merge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best. For us. Yes. Like if you can't beat it, join it. That's, you know. Yeah. You know.

So from a long-term existential standpoint, that's like the purpose of Neuralink is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with AI. Because we have a bandwidth problem. You just can't communicate through open goes. It's too slow. And where's Neuralink at right now? I think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months. That's at least an order of magnitude

better than anything else. I think better than probably anyone thinks is possible. How much can you talk about that right now? I don't want to drop the gun on that. But what's the ultimate, what's the idea behind it? What are you trying to accomplish with it? What would you like, best case scenario? I think best case scenario, we effectively merge with AI,

where AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer, where we've got the limbic system, kind of the primitive brain, essentially. You've got the cortex. So you're currently in a symbiotic relationship. Your cortex and limbic system are in a symbiotic relationship. And generally, people like their cortex and they like their limbic system. I haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex. Everybody seems to like both. And the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system. People may think that the thinking part of themselves is in charge, but it's mostly their

limbic system that's in charge. And the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy. That's what most of that computing power is, aren't towards. How can I make the limbic system happy? That's what it's trying to do. Now, if we do have a third layer, which is the AI extension of yourself, that is also symbiotic,

and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself such that the AI doesn't de facto separate, then that could be a good outcome. That could be quite a positive outcome for the future. So instead of replacing us, it will radically change our capabilities. Yes. It will enable anyone who wants to have superhuman cognition. Anyone who wants. This is not a matter of earning power because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it.

So it's just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory. That's the theory. And if that's the case, then, and let's say billions of people do it, then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of of human will the sum of billions of people's desire for the future and that billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability radically enhanced yes and which would be it but how much different than people today like if you if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really understand what you're saying how much different are you talking about when you say radically improve like what do you mean you mean mind reading it would be difficult to to really appreciate the difference. It's kind of like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without.

You're vastly smarter, actually. You can answer any question. If you connect to the Internet, you can answer any question pretty much instantly, any calculation. Your phone's memory is essentially perfect. You can remember flawlessly. Your phone can remember videos, pictures, everything perfectly. Your phone is already an extension of you. You're already a cyborg. You don't even, well, most people don't realize they are already a cyborg. That phone is an extension of yourself. It's just that the data rate, the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself, that is your phone and computer, is slow. It's very slow.

Very slow. And that is like a tiny straw of information flow between your biological self and your digital self. And we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river. Huge, high bandwidth interface. It's an interface problem. Data rate problem. Solve the data rate problem, then I think we can hang on to human machine symbiosis

through the long term. And then people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not. I think they'll probably choose to retain their biological self or not. I think they'll probably choose to retain their biological self. Versus some sort of Ray Kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer? You will be essentially snapshotted into a computer at any time. If your biological self dies,

you could just probably just upload into a new unit. Literally. Pass that whiskey. We're getting crazy over here. This is getting ridiculous. Down the rabbit hole. Grab that whiskey. We're getting crazy over here. This is getting ridiculous. Down the rabbit hole. Grab that sucker. Give me some of that.

This is too freaky. I've been thinking about this for a long time, by the way. I believe you have. If I was talking to one of my... Cheers, by the way. Cheers. Yeah, this is great whiskey. Thank you.

I don't know where this came from. Who brought this to us? Trying to remember. Somebody gave it to us. Old Camp. Whoever it was came from. Who brought this to us? Trying to remember. Somebody gave it to us. Old Camp, whoever it was. Thanks. Yeah, it is good. This is just inevitable.

Again, going back to when you decided to have this fatalistic viewpoint. So you tried to warn people. You talked about this pretty extensively. I've read several interviews where you talked about this. And then you just sort of just said, okay, it just is. Pretty extensively. I've read several interviews where you talked about this, and then you just sort of said, okay, it just is. And in a way, by communicating the potential fear, I mean, for sure you're getting the warning out to some people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really going on the warning quite quite a lot I was

warning everyone I could you've met with Obama and just for one reason look at what about AI yes and what did he say so what about Hillary worry about her first Shh no he listened he certainly listened I met with Congress. I was at a meeting of all 50 governors and talked about just AI danger. And I talked to everyone I could.

No one seemed to realize where this was going. Is it that or do they just assume that someone smarter than them has already taken care of it? Because when people hear about something like AI, it's almost abstract. It's almost like it's so hard to wrap your head around it. By the time it already happens, it'll be too late. Yeah.

I think they didn't quite understand it or didn't think it was near term or not sure what to do about it. An obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee,

government committee, to gain insight before you do oversight, before you do make regulations, they should try to understand what's going on. And then if you have an insight committee, then once they learn what's going on, get up to speed, then they can make maybe some rules or propose some rules. And that would be probably a safer way to go about things it seems i mean i know that it's probably something that the government's supposed to handle but it seems like i wouldn't want the i don't want the government to handle this who do you want to

i want you to handle this oh geez yeah i feel like you're the one who could ring the bell better because if if mike pence starts talking about ai i'm like shut up bitch you don't know anything about ai come on man he doesn't know what he's talking about AI, I'm like, shut up, bitch. You don't know anything about AI. Come on, man. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't have the power to regulate other companies. What am I supposed to? Right. But maybe companies could agree. Maybe there could be some sort of a... I mean, there's...

We have agreements where you're not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean. You're not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging, even though they'd be profitable. maybe this is one of those things maybe we should realize that you can't hit the switch on something that's going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to whether or not it wants to survive or not and whether or not it thinks you're a threat and whether or not it thinks you're useless like why do i keep this dumb finite life form alive?

Why keep this thing around? It's just stupid. It just keeps polluting everything, shitting everywhere it goes, lighting everything on fire and shooting each other. Why would I keep this stupid thing alive? Because sometimes it makes good music. Sometimes it makes great movies. Sometimes it makes beautiful art. And sometimes it's cool to hang out with.

Yes, all those reasons yeah for us those are great reasons yes but for anything objective standing outside like oh this is definitely a flawed system this is like if you went to the jungle and you watch these chimps engage in warfare and beat each other with sticks they're fucking real mean they're fucking mean they're real mean i saw that movie chimpanzee i thought it was gonna be like some disney thing like holy cow what movie was that it's literally called chimpanzee who is it a documentary yeah yeah it's kind of like a documentary i was like damn these chimps are mean they're mean yeah they're cruel yeah they're they're calculated yeah yeah they sneak up on each other and like i didn't realize chimps did calculated cruelty yeah that's pretty

ah i left that meeting kind of thinking, whoa, this is dark. Right, well, we know better because we've advanced,

but if we hadn't, we'd be like, man, I don't want to fucking live in a house. I like the chimp ways, bro. Chimp ways to go.

This is it, man. Chimp life. Chimp life. It's not like I know, but we, in a way, to the AI,

might be like those chimps. We're like, these stupid fucks launching missiles out of drones and shooting each other underwater. Like, we're crazy. We've got torpedoes and submarines and fucking airplanes that drop nuclear bombs indiscriminately on cities. We're assholes. Yeah. They might go, why are they doing this it might like look at our politics look at what we do in terms of our our food system what kind of food we force down each other's throats

and they might go these people are crazy they don't even look out for themselves i don't know i mean how much do we think about chimps? Not much. Very little. It's true. These chimps are at war. Right. These little groups of chimps just attack each other, and they kill each other, and they torture each other. That's pretty bad. They hunt monkeys. This is probably the most. When's the last time you talked about chimps? Me? Yeah time you do talking to the wrong guy podcast dude i talk about chips

okay people are laughing right now yeah constantly i'm obsessed i saw that david attenborough documentary on chimps when they were eating those colobus monkeys and ripping them apart i saw that many, many years ago. It just changed how I go, oh, this is why people are so crazy. We came from that thing. Yeah, exactly. They got a better philosophy.

Yeah, they're like swingers. Yeah, they really are. They seem to be way more, even than us, way more civilized. They just seem to resolve everything with sex. The only rules they have is the mom won't bang the son. That's it.

Mom won't bang her sons. They're good women. Good women in the bonobo community. Everybody else is just banging it out. Yeah. I haven't seen the bonobo movie. Well, they're disturbing just at a zoo. You know, you have Bonobos at the zoo.

They're just constantly going. Constantly fucking, yeah. That's all they do. This won't stop. Yeah, and they don't care. Gay, straight, whatever. Let's just fuck. Let's put these labels.

I haven't seen Bonobos at a zoo. It's probably like not in the PG section. Yeah, I don't think they have them at many zoos. We've looked that up before too it's probably pretty awkward I think that's the thing they like to keep

regular chimps at zoos because bonobos are just always jacking off yeah what's that they have them in San Diego

San Diego's has got some really interesting probably separate them yeah I mean how many are there in a cage it's going to be

pretty intense yeah we're a weird thing you know and I've right it's gonna be pretty intense yeah yeah yeah we're we're a weird thing you know and i've often wondered if whether or not we're you know our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing and that's why we're so obsessed with technology because it's not like this technology is really i mean it's certainly enhancing our lives to in a certain way but is i mean ultimately is it making people happier right now most technology i would say no in fact you and i were talking about social media before this about just not having instagram on

your phone and not dealing and you feel better yes i think that one of the issues with social media that's been pointed out by many people is that um um, I think maybe particularly Instagram, um, people look like they have a much better life than they really do. Right. So by design. Yeah. People are posting pictures of when they're really happy. They're modifying those pictures to be better looking. Um, even if they're not modifying the pictures, they're at least selecting the pictures for the best lighting, the best angle. So people basically seem, they're way better looking than they basically really are. And they're way happier seeming than they really are. So if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, man, They really are.

So if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, man, there are all these happy, beautiful people. And I'm not that good looking and I am not happy. So I must suck, you know. And that's going to make people sad. So when, in fact, those people you think are super happy, actually not that happy. Some of them are really depressed. They're very sad. Some of the happiest-seeming people, actually some of the saddest people in reality.

And nobody looks good all the time. It doesn't matter who you are. No. It's not even something you should want. Why do you want to look great all the time? Yeah, exactly. So I think things like that can make people quite sad. Just by comparison because you just sort of – people generally think of themselves relative to others.

We are constantly re-baselining our expectations. And you can see this, say, if you watch some show like Naked and Afraid or, you know, if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while and you're like, civilization is quite great. A lot of it is people want to come back to civilization pretty fast on Naked and Afraid. Wasn't that a Thoreau quote? The comparison is a thief of joy? Yeah. Well, happiness is reality minus expectations.

That's great, too. But the comparison is a thief of joy really holds true to people. Is it? Theodore Roosevelt. Roosevelt. Fascinating. And when you're thinking about Instagram, because what essentially Instagram is with a lot of people is you're giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent and they always

go towards the glamorous. You know? And when anybody does show, you know, hashtag no filter, if they really do do that, like, oh, you're so brave. Look at you.

No makeup. You know? Yeah. They look good anyway. You look great. What are you doing? Oh my God, you don't have makeup on.

You still look hot as fuck. You know what you're doing. You know what you're doing. I know what you're doing, too. They're letting you know. And then they're feeding off that comment section. Ooh. Just a little... Sitting there like it's a fresh stream of love.

Like you're getting right up to the source as it comes out of the earth. And you're sucking that sweet, sweet love water. Emojis. Emojis. Yeah. A lot of emojis. A lot of emojis. Love water.

Emojis. Emojis. Yeah. A lot of emojis. My concern is not so much what Instagram is, is that I didn't think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers and comments and this ability to project this sort of distorted version

of who you really are. But I worry about where it goes. Like, what's the next one? What's the next one? Like, where is it? Is it going to be augmented to some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you're not going to want to live in this real world? You're going to want to interface with this sort of world that you've created through

your social media page. Some next level thing. Yeah. Go live in the simulation. maybe in the simulation some ready player one type shit that's real that seems we have that htc vibe here and i've only done it a couple times quite honestly because it kind of freaks me out sure my kids fucking love it man they love it they love playing these weirdo games and and and walking around with that headset on but part of me watching them do it goes wow i wonder if this is like the precursor just sort of like if you look at that that phone that gordon gecko had on the beach yeah and you compare that

yeah you compare that to like a galaxy note 9 like how the fuck did that become that right and i wonder when i see this htc vive i'm like what is that thing going to be 10 years from now when we're making fun of what it is now what is it how i mean how ingrained and how how how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life it will be at some point indistinguishable from reality. Where we'll lose this. We'll lose this. Like you and I are just looking at each other through our eyes. I see you and you see me, I think, I hope.

You think so? I think you probably have regular eyes. This could be some simulation. It could. Do you entertain that? Well, the argument for the simulation I think is quite strong because if you assume any improvement at all over time, any improvement, 1%, 0.1%, just extend the timeframe, make it a thousand years, a million years, the universe is 13.8 billion years old. Civilization, if you count it, if you're very generous, civilization is maybe seven or eight

thousand years old, if you count it from the first writing. This is nothing. This is nothing. So if you assume any rate of improvement at all, then games will be indistinguishable from reality. Or civilization will end. One of those two things will occur. Therefore, we are most likely

in a simulation. Or we're on our way to one. But just because we exist, we could most certainly be on the road. We could be on the road to that, right? It doesn't mean that it has to avert... We could be in base reality. We could be in base reality.

We could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again, where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the internet or the next level of sharing information but right now we're not there yet that's possible too right it's possible that a simulation is one day going to be inevitable that we're going to have something that's indistinguishable from regular reality but

maybe we're not there yet that's also also possible. We're not quite there yet. This is real? When I touch that wood? Feels very real. Maybe that's why everybody's into mason jars and shit. Mason jars. Suede shoes. People are into craft restaurants and they want raw wood. Everyone wants to see metal.

It seems like people are longing towards some weird log cabin type nostalgia. Yeah, like holding on, like clinging, just dragging their nails through the mud, like, don't take me yet. Yes. But then people will go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle. That's dark. Makes me lose faith in humanity.

Wine stem and a handle, they have those? Yes. Oh, those dirty people. That's just assholes. That's wine stem and a handle. They have those? Yes. Oh, those dirty people. That's just assholes. That's like people make pet rocks. Rough. Right? Some people are just assholes.

They take advantage of our generous nature. It was made with a wine stem. Made with a handle. They made it that way? Yes. So it wasn't like they welded it onto the masonry. Oh, you fucks. That would be fine if it was, they glued it on or something. Right.

It was made that way. White trash chic. Oh, this is disgusting. Look at this. Here it is right there. Yep. This is terrible. Yeah.

That's like fake breasts that are designed to be hard, like fake breasts from the 60s. It's like if you really long for the ones with ripples, here we go. Yeah. That's almost what that is. Yeah. What are you going to do, man? There's nothing, I mean, it's not you do stop certain terrible ideas from propagating. Yeah.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like things are too dark because I think you kind of have to be optimistic about the future there's no point in being pessimistic it's just too negative it doesn't help it doesn't help I think you want to be

my theory is you'd rather be optimistic I'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right. Right. At least or on that side. Right. Yeah. Because if you're pessimistic, you're just going to be miserable. Yeah.

Yeah. And nobody wants to be around you anyway. If it's the end of the world, you're like, I fucking told you, bro. Yeah. The world's ending. Yeah. It is what it is for all. I mean, enjoy the bro. Yeah. The world's ending. It is what it is for all. Enjoy the journey.

Right. If you really want to get morose, I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We're all going to go, unless something changes. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we'd be, we'd still eventually, that'd be like the heat death of the universe. Right. A zillion years from now.

Right, even if we get it past the sun. If we figure out a way past the sun running out of juice. Eventually it's going to end. It's just a question of when. Right. So it really is all about the journey. Hmm. Or transcendence from whatever we are now

into something that doesn't worry about death. The universe as we know it will dissipate into a fine mist of cold nothingness eventually. And then someone's going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it. Sell it to French people in another dimension. It's just a very long time. So I think it's really just about how can we make it last longer? Are you a proponent of the multi-universes theory?

Do you believe that there are many, many universes and that even if this one fades out, that there's other ones that are starting fresh right now and there's an infinite number of them and they're just constantly in this never-ending cycle of birth and death? And they're just constantly in this never-ending cycle of birth and death? I think most likely.

This is just about probability. There are many, many simulations. These simulations are, you might as well call them reality. Or you could call them the multiverse. These simulations, you believe, are created? Like someone has manufactured them? They're running on a substrate. So? That substrate is probably boring. Boring? These simulations you believe are created? Like someone has manufactured... They're running on a substrate. So... That substrate is probably boring.

Boring? How so? Well, when we create a simulation, like a game or a movie, it's a distillation of what's interesting about life. It takes a year to shoot an action movie, and then that's all distilled down into two or three hours. So let me tell you, if you see an action movie being filmed, it's frigging boring, super boring.

There's like lots of takes. Everything's on a green screen. Looks pretty goofy. Doesn't look cool. But once you add the cgi and have great editing it's amazing so i think most likely if we're a simulation it's really boring outside the simulation because why would you make a simulation that's boring? Because it makes simulation way more interesting than the base reality. That is if this right now is a simulation.

Yes. And ultimately, inevitably, as long as we don't die or get hit by a meteor, we're going to create some sort of simulation if we continue on the same technological path we're on right now. Yes. But we might not be there yet. So it might not be a simulation here. But it most likely is

you feel other places. This notion of place or where is... Flawed. Yes. Flawed perception. Like where... Like that...

If you have this sort of... That vibe, you know, which... That's made by Valve. It's really Valve that made it. HTC did the hardware, but it's really a Valve thing. Makers of Half-Life.

Yes. Valve, great company. Great company. When you're in that virtual reality, which is only going to get better, where are you? Where are you really? Right. You aren't anywhere. You're in the computer.

What defines where you are? Exactly. It's your perception. Is it your perceptions or is it a scale that we have under your butt? You're right here. I've measured you. You're the same weight as you were when you left. Meanwhile, your experience is radically different. Why do you think you're where you are right now?

You might not be. I'll spark up a joint if you keep talking. Your manager's going to come in here. We might have to lock the door. Right now, you think you're in a studio in L.A. That's what I heard. You might be in a computer. Oh, listen, man. I think about this lock the door. Right now you think you're in a studio in L.A. That's what I heard. You might be in a computer. Oh, listen, man.

I think about this all the time. Yeah, I mean, it's unquestionable that one day that'll be the case. As long as we keep going. As long as nothing interrupts us. And if we start from scratch and, you know, we're single-celled organisms all over again. And then millions and millions of years later, we become the next thing that is us with creativity and the ability to change this environment.

It's going to keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality, to change, I mean, to almost, like, punch a hole through what is this thing into what it wants it to be and create new things. And then those new things will intersect with other people's new things. And then there'll be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology.

Yeah. And then we're going to wonder, like, why are we here? What are we doing? Let's find out. why are we here? What are we doing? Let's find out. Well,

I mean, I think we should take the actions, the set of actions that are most likely to make the future better. Yes. Right. Yeah. Right. Right.

And then reevaluate those actions to make sure they're there, that it's true. Well, I think there's a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement, I think some of it's misguided and some of it's exaggerated. And there's true. Well, I think there's a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement, I think some of it's misguided and some of it's exaggerated. And there's a lot of people

that are fighting for their side out there. But it seems like the general trend of like social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through Facebook or Twitter or what have you.

And that the trend is to abandon preconceived notions, abandon prejudice, abandon discrimination and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. Look at this knife. Somebody gave it to me. Sorry. Yeah, what is this? What the fuck did you do? My friend Donnie brought this with him, and it just stayed here.

I have a real samurai sword if you want to play with that. I know you're into weapons. That's from the 1500s. Samurai sword at the end of the table? Yeah. That's cool. I'll grab it. Hold on.

Yeah, that's a legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s if you pull out that blade that blade was made the old way where a master craftsman folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time and honed that blade into what it is now. What's crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine. I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it until it got to the podcast room, it's pretty fucking crazy. One day, someone's going to be looking at a Tesla like that.

Dude. These fucking back doors, they pop up sideways like a Lamborghini. You should see what a Tesla can do. You didn't. I'll show you afterwards. Well, I've driven one. I love them. Yeah, but most people don't know what it can do.

In terms of like ludicrous mode? In terms of like driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads? Is that what you're saying? Well, any car can do that. Yeah. What can it do that, that I need to know about? I mean, the Model X can do this like ballet thing to the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. It's pretty cool.

Where it dances? Yes. Legitimately? Legit pretty cool. Where it dances? Yes. Legitimately? It moves around. Yes. Why would you program that into a car? Seemed like fun. That's what I get about you.

That's what's weird. When you showed up here, you were all smiles, and you pull out a fucking blowtorch and not a blowtorch. But I'm like, look at this dude. Not a flamethrower. Not a flamethrower. I'm like, look at this dude. Not a flamethrower. Not a flamethrower. I want to be clear, it's definitely not a flamethrower. You're having fun. Like, this thing, when you program a car to do a ballet dance,

you're having fun. But how do you have the time to do that? I don't understand. While you're digging holes under the earth and sending rockets into space and powering people in Australia, how the fuck do you have time to make the car dance ballet? Well, I mean, in that case, there were some engineers at Tesla that said, you know, what if we make this car dance and play music?

I was like, that sounds great. Please do it. Let's try to get it done in time for Christmas. We did. Is there a concern about someone just losing their mind and making it do that on the highway? No, it won't do that. What if it's in bumper-to-bumper traffic? Nope.

No, won't do it. Nope. Actually, you have to, it's an Easter egg. Oh, it's an Easter egg. Yeah. That's why people don't know about it, including people who have the car. It's like you can do lots of things, lots of things. Once Reddit gets a hold of it, everyone's going to know that.

Oh, you just have to – if you search for it on the internet, you will find out. But people don't know that they should even search for it. Oh, well, they do now. Yes. Yes. Oh, well, they do now. Yes. Yes.

There's so many things about the Model X and the Model S and the Model 3 that people don't know about. We should probably do a video or something and explain it. Because I have close friends of mine, and I say, do you know the car can do this? And they're like, nope. Do you want to do a video of that, or do you like the fact that some people don't know? No, I think it's probably not we should tell people. Yeah, probably. Yes.

That would help your product. I mean, it's not like you don't sell enough of them. You sell almost too many of them, right? I mean, I think a Tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever. That's what it's meant to be. Well. Our goal is to make, it's not exactly a car. It's actually a thing to maximize enjoyment.

Make it maximum fun. Okay. Electronic. make it maximum fun okay electronic like big screen, laptop ridiculous speed handling, all that stuff yeah and we're going to put video games in it you are? yeah

is that wise? you won't be able to drive while you're playing the video game for example we're just putting the Atari emulator, ROM emulator in it. So you'll be able to play Missile Command and Lunar Lander and a bunch of other things. Yeah. That sounds cool. It's pretty fun.

I like that. Yeah. And we improved the interface of Missile Command because it was too hard with the old trackball. So this is a touchscreen version of Missile Command. So you have a chance. Do you... You have an old car, don't you? Don't you have like an old Jaguar? Yeah.

How do you know that? That's – 61 Series 1 E-Type Jaguar. I love cars. It's great. Yeah, I love old cars. That's why I'm thinking – Yeah. That's what I'm thinking Yeah

The only two Gasoline cars I have Are that And An old Like a Ford Model T That a friend of mine gave me That's my only two

Gasoline cars Is the Ford Model T All stock Oh there's your car Ooh Look at that I have the Convertible

That is a gorgeous car God That's a good looking car Yes Is that yours That is It's not mine It's extremely gorgeous car. God, that's a good-looking car. Yes. Is that yours? That is. It's not mine. It's extremely close to mine.

But I don't have a French license plate on mine. Oh, it's a beautiful car. They nailed that. Mine looks like that. God, they nailed that. That's what mine looks like. Maybe that is mine. There's certain iconic shapes.

Yes. And there's something about those cars, too. They're not as capable, not nearly as capable as, like, a Tesla. But there's something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of, like, feeling the steering and the grinding of the gears and the shifting. There's something about those that's extremely satisfying, even though they're not that competent. There's something about those that's extremely satisfying, even though they're not that competent. I have a 1993 Porsche 964. It's lightweight.

It's an RS America. It's not very fast. It's not in comparison to a Tesla or anything like that. But the thing about it is it's mechanical. You feel it. Everything's like... It gives you this weird thrill thrill like you're on this clinky ride and there's all this feedback there's something to that yeah yeah absolutely i mean yeah my e-type is like basically no electronics yeah um so you like, but you also like electronics. Yes. Like your Tesla is super.

It's like the far end of electronics. Yes. Drives itself. It's driving itself better every day. Yeah. It's like we're about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on, and it'll drive from highway on-ramp to highway exit, do lane changes, overtake other cars, Jesus,

go from one interchange to the next. If you get on, say the four Oh five and get off, get off 300 miles later and go through several highway interchanges and just take overtake other cars and hook into the nav system. And then, um, and you're just meditating.

Oh, yeah. The car's just traveling. It's kind of eerie. What did you think when you saw that video of that dude falling asleep behind the wheel? I'm sure you've seen it. The one in San Francisco. He's right outside of San Jose.

The dude's out cold like this. And the car's in bumper-to-bumper traffic moving along. Have you seen it, right? Yeah, yeah. We changed the software. We changed the software. That's, I think, an old video. moving along? Yeah. Have you seen it, right? Yeah, yeah. Did you say, what have I done? We changed the software. That's, I think, an old video. We changed the software where if you don't touch the wheel, it will gradually slow down

and put the emergency lights on and wake you up. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah. Can you choose what voice wakes you up? Well, it's sort of more of a it sort of honks. Oh, it honks?ks yeah you should be like wake up fuckface well you're endangering your fellow humans we could we could

gently wake you up with a sultry voice oh that would be good like something with a southern accent hey wake up sunshine hey sweet exactly won't you wake you like pick could pick your right like what do you want yeah I choose the Australian girl for Siri yeah I like her voice you want. Yeah, I'd choose the Australian girl for Siri. Yeah. I like her voice. Do you want it seductive? It's my favorite.

I like Australian. What flavor? Do you want it to be angry? It could be anything. Do you want those Australian prison lady jeans? Now, when you program something like that in, is this in response to a concern or is it your own? Yeah. Do you look at it and go, hey um they shouldn't just be able to

fall asleep let's wake them up yeah yeah we it's like you know we're like well you know people falling asleep we we've got to do something about that right but when you first released it you didn't consider it right you're just like well no one's gonna just sleep people fall asleep in cars all the time all the the time. And crash. Yeah. At least our car doesn't crash. That's better. It's better not to crash.

Imagine if that guy had fallen asleep in a gasoline car. They do it all the time. For sure. Yeah. Then they would crash into somebody. Yeah. In fact, the thing that really got me to, it's like, man, we better get autopilot going and get it out there, It got me to, it's like, man, we better get autopilot going and get it out there.

A guy was in an early Tesla driving down the highway and he fell asleep and he ran over a cyclist and killed him. And the cyclist was like, man, if we had autopilot, we might have fallen asleep, but at least he wouldn't have run over that cyclist. So how did you implement it like did you just use cameras and yeah programmed with the the system so that if it sees images it slows down and how much time do you give is the person who's in control of it allowed to program how fast it goes yes yeah you can program it to be more or less, like, more conservative, like, more aggressive driver. And you can say what speed you want it to, what speed is okay. I know you have ludicrous mode.

Do you have douchebag mode? Ha-ha. Ha-ha-ha. Well, in... It just cuts people off. Well, for lane changes, it's tricky because if you're in like L.A., like unless you're pretty aggressive, it's hard to change lanes sometimes. It's hard to be Sat Nam.

It's hard to be Namaste here in L.A. Yeah. If you want to hit that Santa Monica Boulevard off ramp. I mean, you've got to be a little pushy. You've got to be a little pushy, yeah, especially when people are angry. They're a little angry. They don't want you in. They speed up.

Sometimes. You know, I think people, like, overall are pretty nice on the highway, even in L.A., but sometimes they're not. Do you think the Neuralink will help that? Probably. Everybody will be locked in together, this hive mind. Tunnels will help it. We're going to have traffic. That will help a lot.

Yeah. How many of those can you put in there nice thing about tunnels nice thing about tunnels is you can go 3d so you can go many levels right so until you hit hell yeah but you could go you can have 100 levels of tunnel no problems jesus christ i don't want to be on 99 i'm gonna be on 99. That would be on negative 99 floors. Whew. This is one of the fundamental things people don't appreciate about tunnels

is that it's not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system and a 3D living and workspace environment.

So, you've got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments and then you want to go into this 2D transport system, which is pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far. And so that obviously is not going to work.

You're going to have traffic guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic. And you can either go 3D up with a flying car or you can go 3D down your transport system, then you can solve all traffic. And you can either go 3D up with a flying car, or you can go 3D down with tunnels. You can have as many tunnel levels as you want. And you can arbitrarily relieve any amount

of traffic. You can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. You're 10,000 feet down if you want. I wouldn't recommend it, but... What was that movie with... What's his face? Bradley Cooper?

Not Bradley Cooper. Christian... No, what the fuck's his name? Batman. Who was Batman? Christian Bale. Where they fought dragons, him and Matthew McConaughey.

They went down deep into the earth. How deep can you go? I don't think that was Batman. Yeah, it was. It was. Batman, Four Dragons? No, it wasn't Batman, but it was Christian Bale. Rain of Fire. You ever saw that? No. Terrible movie. Terrible movie, but good.

I wouldn't recommend drilling super far down. Yeah, but you get real deep. It gets hot, right? Earth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top, which we think of as like the surface. This thin crust. And it's mostly just a big ball of lava.

That's Earth. But 10,000 feet is not a big deal. Have you given any consideration whatsoever to the flat Earth movement? Ha-ha. I think that's a troll situation. Oh, it's not. Have you given any consideration whatsoever to the flat earth movement? Ha ha. I think that's a troll situation. Oh, it's not. No, it's not. You would like to think that because you're a super genius.

But I, as a normal person, I know there's people way dumber than me. And they really, really believe. dumber than me. And they really, really believe. They watch YouTube videos which go on uninterrupted and spew out a bunch of fucking fake facts very eloquently and articulately. And they really believe.

These people really believe. I mean, if it works for them, sure. Fine. It's weird though, right? That in this age where, you know, there's ludicrous that in this age where you know there's ludicrous mode in your car goes 1.9 seconds

0 to 60 2.2 2.2 which one's 1.9 the roadster the next generation roadster okay standard edition

yeah I'm on top of this shit that's what that is standard edition yeah it's about the performance package what performance package yeah What performance package?

What the fuck do you need? We're going to put rocket thrusters on it. For real? Yes. What are they going to burn? Nothing. Ultra high pressure compressed air. Whoa.

Just air? Cold gas thrusters. Do you have to have air tanks or are they sucking the air out? Okay. Yeah, it's an electric pump. Whoa. Pump it up to like 10,000 PSI. And how fast are we talking?

Zero to 60. How fast do you want to go? I want to go instantaneously. We could make it just fly. I want to go back in time. We could make it fly. You make it fly. Sure.

Do you anticipate that as being, I mean, you were talking about the tunnels and then flying cars. Do you really think that's going to be real? It's too noisy. And there's too much airflow. So the fundamental issue with flying cars, I mean, if you get one of those like toy drones, think of how loud those are and how much air they blow. Now imagine if that's like a thousand times heavier.

This is not going to make your neighbors happy. Your neighbors are not going to be happy if you land a flying car in your backyard. It'll be very helicopter-like. Or on your roof. They're just really going to be like, what the hell? That was annoying. You can't even, like, if you want a flying car, just put some wheels on a helicopter. Is there a way around that?

Like, what if they figure out some sort of magnetic technology? Like, all those Bob Lazar-type characters were thinking that was a part of the UFO technology they were doing at Area 51? Remember, didn't they have some thoughts about magnetics? Nope. No? Bullshit? Yes. Really? Yeah, there's a fundamental momentum exchange with the air. So you must accelerate.

There's a certain, you have a mass and you have gravitational acceleration. And mass times, your mass times gravity must equal the mass of airflow times the acceleration of that airflow to have a neutral force. So it's impossible to get around. And then you won't move. But if MG is greater than Ma, you will go down. And if Ma is greater than Mg, you will go up. That's how it works. There's just no way around that.

There is definitely no way around it. There's no way to create some sort of a magnetic something or another that allows you to... Technically, yes. You could have a strong enough magnet. But that magnet would be so strong that you would create a lot of trouble. You would just suck cars up into your car? Just pick up axles and shit?

You'd have to rappel off of either material on the ground or in a really nutty situation off of Earth's gravitational field and somehow make that incredibly light. But that magnet would cause so much destruction, you'd be better off with a helicopter. much destruction, you'd be better off with a helicopter. So if there was some sort of magnet road, like you have two magnets and they repel each other, if you had some sort of a magnet road that was below you and you could travel on that magnet road, that would work. Ha ha ha. Yes.

Yes, you could have a magnet road. A magnet road. Is that too ridiculous? No, it would work. You could do that. Cement's pretty ridiculous too, right? I would not recommend it. There's a lot of things I don't recommend.

I would super not recommend that. Not wise, I think. No? Magnet roads? No. No. Definitely not. Definitely not.

That would cause a lot of trouble. So you've put some time and consideration into this, you know, instead of, like, my foolishly rendered thoughts. So you think that tunnels are the way to do it. Oh, it'll work for sure. That'll work. Yes. And these tunnels that you're building right now, these are basically just, like, test versions of this ultimate idea that you have? You know, it's just a hole in the ground. Right.

We played videos of it where your idea is that you're going to drop that hole in the ground. There's a sled on it, and the sled goes very fast, like 100 miles an hour plus. Yeah, you can go real fast. You can go as fast as you want. And then if you want to go long distances, you can just draw the air out of the tunnel, make sure it's real straight. Draw the air out of the tunnel. Yeah, yeah, just have a vacuum tunnel. And then depending on how fast you want to go, you can use wheels, or you could use air bearings,

depending upon the ambient pressure in the tunnel, or you could maglev it if you want to go super fast. So a magnet road. Yes. But underground magnet roads. Underground magnet roads. Yeah, otherwise you're going to really create a lot of trouble because of those metal things. So magnet roads are the way to go, just underground. If you want to go really fast underground, you would be maglev in a vacuum tunnel.

Mag in a vacuum tunnel. Magnetic levitation in a vacuum tunnel. Rocket launchers. With rocket launchers. No, I would not recommend putting any exhaust gas in the tunnel. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Because then your air will be gone.

Right. You'll have to pump it out and you'll probably have a limited amount of air in the first place. How much can you breathe? Do you have to pump oxygen into these cubicles? No, you'd have a pressurized pod. It'd be like a little tiny underground spaceship basically. Like an airplane. Because you have air in an airplane, it's not getting new air in. It is.

It is? Yes. They have like a little hole? Yeah, they have a pump. Really? Yeah. So it gets it from the outside? Yes.

Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, they have a pump. Really? Yeah. So it gets it from the outside? Yes. Wow, I didn't know that. And it's like the – airplanes have it easy because essentially you can – they're pretty leaky. Jesus.

Yeah. So long as the air pump is working at a decent speed, they have backup pumps. Oh. So they have like three pumps or four pumps or something. So they'll have like three pumps or four pumps or something. And then it exhausts through the outflow valve and through whatever seals are not sealing quite right. Usually the door doesn't seal quite right on a plane. So there's a bit of leakage around the door.

But the pumps exceed the outflow rate and then that sets the pressure in the cabin. Now, have you ever looked at planes and gone, I could fix this? I just don't have the time. I have a design for a plane. You do? Yes. A better design? I mean, probably.

I think it is. Who have you talked to about this I've talked to friends I'm your friend you can tell me what do you got what's going on well I mean the exciting thing to do would be

some sort of electric vertical takeoff and landing supersonic vertical takeoff and landing no need for a runway. Just shoot up straight in the air and then... Ooh. How would you do that? And they do that on some military aircrafts, correct?

Yes. The trick is that you have to transition to level flight and then the thing that you would use for vertical takeoff and landing is not suitable for high-speed flight. So you have two different systems? I've thought about this quite a lot. I've thought about this quite a lot.

The interesting thing about an electric plane is that you want to go as high as possible, but you need a certain energy density in the battery pack because you have to overcome gravitational potential energy. Once you've overcome gravitational potential energy and you're at a high altitude, the energy you use in cruise is very low. And then you can recapture a large part of the gravitational potential energy on the way down. So you really don't need any kind of reserve fuel, if you will, because you have the energy of height, gravitational potential energy.

This is a lot of energy. So once you can get high, like the way to think about a plane is it's a force balance. So the force balance, The way to think about a plane is it's a force balance. So the force balance, so a plane that is not accelerating is a neutral force balance. You have the force of gravity, you have the lift force of the wings, then you've got the force of the, whatever, thrusting device, the propeller or turbine or whatever it is,

and you've got the resistance force of the air. Now, the higher you go, the lower the air resistance is. Air density drops exponentially, but drag increases with a square, and exponential beats a square. The higher you go, the faster you will go for the same amount of energy. And at a certain altitude, you can go supersonic with less energy per mile, quite a lot less energy per mile than an aircraft at 35,000 feet because it's just a force balance.

I'm too stupid for this conversation. It makes sense, though. No, I'm sure stupid for this conversation. It makes sense, though. No, I'm sure it does. Now, when you think about this new idea of designing, when you have this idea about improving planes, are you going to bring this to somebody? Are you just chuck this around? Well, I have a lot on my plate.

Right, that's what I'm saying. I don't know how you do what you do now, but if you keep coming up with these... But it's got to be hard to pawn these off on someone else either. Hey, go do a good job with this vertical takeoff and landing system that I want to implement to regular planes. The electric airplane isn't necessary right now. Electric cars are important.

Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic VTOL. Also, the planes naturally, you really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft, and this is improving over time. So, you know, it's important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. That's why electric cars, it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later. You know, we're really playing a crazy game here with the atmosphere and the oceans.

with the atmosphere and the oceans. We're taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this in the atmosphere. This is crazy. We should not do this. It's very dangerous. So we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. So we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. I mean, the bizarre thing is that obviously we're going to run out of oil in the long term.

You know, there's only so much oil we can mine and burn. It's tautological. We must have a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term. So we know that's the end point. We know that. So why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans? This is an insane experiment. It's the dumbest experiment in human history. Why are we doing this? It's crazy. Do you think this is a product of momentum that we started we doing this? It's crazy. Do you think this is a product of momentum, that we started off doing this when it was just a few engines,

a few hundred million gallons of fuel over the whole world, not that big of a deal, and then slowly but surely over a century it got out of control? And now it's not just our fuel, but it's also, I mean, fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics, so many different items that people buy. It's just this constant desire for fossil fuels, constant need for oil without consideration of the sustainability. The things like oil, oil, coal, gas, it's the easy money. It's the easy money. Have you heard about clean coal?

The president's been tweeting about it. It's got to be real. Clean coal, all caps. Did you see? He used all caps. Clean coal. Well, you know, it's very difficult to put that CO2 back in the ground. It doesn't like being in solid form.

It takes a lot of energy. Have you thought about something like that? Like some sort of a filter? Giant building-sized filter sucks carbon out of the atmosphere? Is that possible? No, it's not possible. No? No.

No, definitely not. So we're fucked. No, we're not fucked. No. Nope, definitely not. So we're fucked. No, we're not fucked. I mean, this is quite a complex question.

Right. You know, we're really just, the more carbon we take out of the ground and add to the atmosphere, and a lot of it gets permeated into the oceans, the more dangerous it is. Like Like I don't think right now, I think we're okay right now. We can probably even add some more. But the momentum towards sustainable energy is too slow. Like there's a vast base of industry, vast transportation system. Like there's two and a half billion cars and trucks in the world. And the new car and truck production,

if it was 100% electric, that's only about 100 million per year. So it would take, if you could snap your fingers and instantly turn all cars and trucks electric, it would still take 25 years to change the transport base to electric. Makes sense because how long does a car truck last before it goes into the junkyard and gets crushed? About 20 to 25 years. Is there a way to accelerate that process, like some sort of subsidies

or some encouragement from the government financially? Well, the thing that is going on right now is that there is an inherent subsidy in any oil-burning device. Any power plant or car is fundamentally consuming the carbon capacity of the oceans and atmosphere. I'll just say atmosphere for short. So you can say, okay, there's a certain probability of something bad happening past a certain carbon concentration in the atmosphere. And so there's some uncertain number where if we put too much carbon in the atmosphere, things overheat, oceans warm up, ice caps melt, ocean real estate becomes a lot less valuable, things are underwater. But it's not clear what that number is.

But it's definitely a scientist's world. It's really quite the that number is, but it's definitely a scientist. It's really quite, the scientific consensus is overwhelming. Overwhelming. I mean, I don't know any serious scientists, actually zero, literally zero, who don't think that we have quite a serious climate risk that we're facing. And so there's fundamentally a subsidy occurring with every fossil fuel burning thing,

power plants, aircraft, car, frankly, even rockets. I mean, rockets use up, you know, they burn fuel. But there's just, you know, with rockets, there's just no other way to get to orbit, unfortunately. So it's the only way. But with cars, there's definitely a better way with electric cars. And to generate the energy, do so with photovoltaics because we've got a giant thermonuclear reactor in the sky called the Sun.

It's great. It shows up every day. Very reliable. So if you can generate energy from solar panels, store it with batteries, you can have energy 24 hours a day. And then you can send it to the poles or near to the north with high voltage lines. Also, the northern parts of the world tend to have a lot of hydropower as well. But anyway, all fossil fuel powered things have an inherent subsidy, which is their consumption of the carbon capacity of the atmosphere and oceans. So people tend to think like, why should electric vehicles have a subsidy? But they're not taking into account that all fossil fuel burning vehicles fundamentally

are subsidized by the cost, the environmental cost to Earth. But nobody's paying for it. We are going to pay for it, obviously, in the future. We will pay for it. It's just not paid for now. Now, what is the bottleneck in regards to electric cars and trucks and things like that? Is it battery capacity?

Yeah, I've got to scale up production. I've got to make the car compelling, make it better than gasoline or diesel cars. Make it more efficient in terms of the distance it can travel. Yeah, you've got to be able to go far enough, recharge fast. And your Roadster, you're anticipating 600 miles, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, 600 miles, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, 600 miles. Is that right now?

Like, have you driven one 600 miles now? No, we could totally make one right now that would do 600 miles. But the thing is, it's too expensive. So, like, the car's got to— How much more so? Well, you know, just have a 200-kilowatt-hour battery pack, and you can go 600 miles. Right, versus what do you have now? 330-mile range.

330-mile range, what is that in terms of kilowatts? Well, that would be for Model S 100-kilowatt-hour pack, we'll do about 330 miles, maybe 335. But some people have hyper-miled it to 500 miles. Hyper-miled it? What does that mean? Yeah, just like go on. 45 miles an hour or something? Yeah, like 30 miles an hour or something.

It's like on level ground with, you pump the tires up really well and go on a smooth surface. And you can go for a long time. But you can like definitely comfortably do 300 miles. Is there any? this is fine for most people usually 200 or 250 miles is fine 300 miles is you don't even think about it really is there any possibility that you could use solar power that solar powered one day especially in Los Angeles I mean as you said about that giant nuclear reactor a million times bigger than Earth just floating in the

sky is it possible that one day you'll be able to just power all these cars just on solar power? I mean, we don't ever have cloudy days. If we do, there's three of them. Well, the surface area of a car is, without making the car, like, really blocky or having some— Like a G-wagon? Yeah, and just like having a look a lot of surface area where like maybe like solar panels fold out or something like your e-class that's what we needed the e-type yeah that the e uh jaguar e-type with a giant long hood that

could be a giant solar panel well at the beginning of tesla i did want to have this like unfolding solar panel thing that you'd press a button and it would just, like, unfold these solar panels and, like, recharge your car in the parking lot. Ah. Yeah, we could do that, but I think it's probably better to just put that on your roof. Right. And then it's going to just be facing the sun all the time. What car had that on the roof? Otherwise, your car could be in the shade, you know, could be in the shade, it could be in a garage or something like that.

Yeah. Didn't a Fisker have that on the roof? The Fisker Karma new generation for, I believe it was only for the radio. Is that correct? Yeah. I mean, I think it could recharge like two miles a day or something. Did you laugh when they started blowing up when they got hit with water? Do you remember what happened?

They got what? Yeah. When they had a dealership oh yeah the Fisker Karmas were parked was that like

where the flood in Jersey yes yes when the hurricane came in they got overwhelmed with water and they all started exploding this fucking great video of it

did you watch the video? I didn't watch the video but I did see I saw a picture of the ass on the back of my mouth I'd be naked lubed up watch that video laugh my ass off see a second-hand picture of the astronaut. I'd be naked, lubed up.

Watch that video, laugh my ass off. They all blow up. They got wet and they blew up. That's not good. Yeah, we made our battery waterproof so that doesn't happen. Smart move. Yeah, there was a guy in Kazakhstan that, I think it was Kazakhstan, that

he just boated through a tunnel, an underwater tunnel, like a flooded tunnel, and just turned the wheels to steer and pressed the accelerator. And it just floated through the tunnel and he steered around the other cars. You're like, it's on the internet. What happens if your car gets a little sideways, like if you're driving in snow? if your car gets a little sideways? Like, if you're driving in snow. Like, what if you're driving, if your autopilot is on, and you're in,

like, Denver, and it snows out. And your car gets a little sideways. Does it correct itself? Oh, yeah. It's got great traction control. But does it know how to, like, correct? Do you know how, like, your ass end kicks out? You know how to countersteer? Oh, yeah. No, it's really good. It knows how to do it?

Yeah. Whoa. It's pretty crazy. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. So, like to countersteer. Oh, yeah. No, it's really good. It knows how to do it? Yeah. Whoa. It's pretty crazy. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. So, like, if you're going sideways, it knows how to correct itself? It generally won't go sideways. It won't? No.

Why not? It will correct itself before it goes sideways. Even in black eyes? Yeah. This video is where you can see the car. That alone? yeah this video is where you can see the car the uh that alone traction control system is very good it makes you feel like superman it's great you like feel like you can like it it'll make you feel like this incredible driver i believe it yeah now how do you program we do our testing on like an ice lake in Sweden. Oh, really?

Yeah, and like Norway and Canada and a few other places. Porsche does a lot of that too. New Zealand as well. They do some of their driver training school on these frozen surfaces. So the car is going sideways whether you like it or not, and you have to learn how to slide into corners and how to adjust. Well, electric cars have really great traction control because the reaction time is so fast. Right.

So with a gasoline car, you've got a lot of latency. It takes a while for the engine to react. But for electric motors, incredibly precise. That's why you can imagine if you had a printer or something, you wouldn't have a gasoline engine printer. That would be pretty weird. Or like a surgical device. It's going to be an electric motor on the surgical device, on the printer. Gasoline engine is going to be just chugging away. It's not going to have the reaction time.

But to an electric motor, it's operating at the millisecond level. So it can turn on and off traction within inches of getting on the honest, like let's say you drive a patch of ice. It'll turn traction off and then turn it on a couple inches right after the ice, like a little patch of ice. Because in the frame of the electric motor, you're moving incredibly slowly. You're like a snail.

You're just moving so slowly. Because it can see at 1 thousand frames a second and so it's like say one mississippi it it just thought about things a thousand times so it's realized that your wheels are not getting traction it understands there's some slippery surface that you're driving on yes and it makes adjustments in real time yes and milliseconds that was That would be so much safer than a regular car. Yes. It is. Just that alone, for loved ones, you'd want them to be driving your car.

Yes. I'm on board. Fuck motors. Dude, fuck regular motors. The S, X, and 3 have the lowest probability of injury of any cars ever tested by the US government. Wow. Yeah. But it's pretty funny. It's pretty crazy.

Like we, you know, people still sue us. Like they'll have like some accident at 60 miles an hour where they like twisted an ankle and they sue, like there'll be dead in another car. They still sue us. But that's to be expected, isn't it? It is to be expected.

Do you take that into account with like the same sort of fatalistic undertones? Just sort of just go, you got to just let it go. This is what people do. I'll tell you. I've got quite a lot of respect for the justice system. Judges are very smart. I'll tell you, I've got quite a lot of respect for the justice system. Judges are very smart.

And they see, like I haven't, so far I've found judges to be very good at justice. Because I, like, what? And juries are good too. Like, they're actually quite good. You know, people, you know, you read about, like, occasional errors in the justice system. Let me tell you, most of the time, they're very good. The guy I mentioned who fell asleep in the car and he rode over a cyclist, and that was what encouraged me to get autopilot out as soon as possible.

That guy sued us. He sued you for falling asleep? Yes. I'm not kidding. He blamed it on the new car smell. What? Yes. He blamed him falling asleep on your new car smell. There's someone who's a lawyer. This is a real thing that happens. Somewhere there's a lawyer that thought that through in front of his laptop before he wrote that up. Yes. He got a lawyer and he sued us. And the judge was like, this is crazy. Stop bothering me. No.

Thank God. Yes. Thank God. Thank God there's a judge out there with a brain. I tell you, judges are very good. Some of them. What about that judge that sent those boys up the river in Pennsylvania who was selling those kids out?

You know about that story? Yeah. Judge was selling young boys to prisons. He was like literally, yeah, literally under bribes for – he was – Was this an elected judge or – because sometimes you have a judge that's like actually a politician. No, he was an elected judge. This is a very famous story. Okay.

He's in jail right now I, for the rest of his life. And he put away, he would take like a young boy would do something like steal something from a store. And he would put him in detention for five years, something ridiculously egregious. And they investigated his history and they found out that he was literally being paid off. Was it by private prisons? Is that what the deal was? There was some sort of a, but anyway, this judge is, two judges? Two judges. Kids for Cash Scandal is what it's called. 2008. 2008, yeah. Commonplace judges.

So I think they are elected. And who was paying them? Oh. Someone, it was proven to the point where they're in jail now, that someone was paying them to put more asses in the seats in these private prisons.

A million dollar payment to put them in the youth centers. A million dollar payment. I do think it's this private prisons thing is creating a bad incentive. Yes. I mean, that judge is in prison. Thank God.

Yes. But for people who think perhaps the justice system consists entirely of judges like that, I want to assure you this is not the case. The vast majority of judges are very good. I agree. And they care about justice and they could have made a lot more money if they wanted to be a trial lawyer. And instead they cared about justice and they made less money because they care about justice. And that's why they're judges. I feel that same way about police officers. I feel like there's so many interactions with so many different people with police officers that the very few that stand out that are horrific, we tend to look at that like this

is evidence that police are all corrupt. And I think that's crazy. No, most police are very honest. Yes. And have an insanely different – The military personnel that I know are very honorable, ethical people. Yes. And much more honorable and ethical than the average person.

I agree. That's my impression. That is my impression as well. And that's not to suggest that we be complacent and assume everyone's honest and ethical. And obviously if somebody is given a trusted place in society, such as being a police officer or a judge, and they are corrupted, then we must be extra vigilant against such situations and take action. But we should not think that this is somehow broadly descriptive of people in that profession. I couldn't agree more. I think there's also an issue with one of the things that happens with police officers, prosecutors, and anyone that's trying to convict someone or arrest

someone is that it becomes a game. And in games, people want to win. And sometimes people cheat. Yes. Yes. I mean, if you're a prosecutor, you should not always want to win. Yes. And sometimes people cheat. Yes. Yes. I mean, you know, if you're a prosecutor, you should not always want to win. There are times when you should like, okay, I just should not want to win this case. And then, you know, like just pass on that case. Sometimes people want to win too much. That is true. I think also it becomes tough. If you're like a district attorney, you tend to sort of see a lot of criminals.

And then your view of the world can get negatively – have a negative view of the world because you're just interacting with a lot of criminals. But actually most of society is not consistent criminals. And I actually had this conversation at dinner several years ago with a district attorney. I was like, man, it must sometimes seem pretty dark because, you know, man, there's some terrible human beings out there. And he was like, yep. And he was like, yep. And he was like dealing with some case which consisted of a couple of old ladies that would run people over somehow for insurance money. It was rough.

I was like, wow, that's pretty rough. It's like hard to maintain faith in humanity if you're a district attorney. But, you know, it's only a few percent of society that are actually bad and then if you go to the worst say 0.1 percent of society or the worst one in a thousand one in a million you know like how bad is the millionth worst person in the united states pretty damn bad like damn evil like the the millionth liketh, well, one in a million of evil is so evil, people cannot even conceive of it. But there's 330 million people in the United States, so that's 330 people out there somewhere. But by the same token, there's also 330 people who are incredible angels and unbelievably good human beings. Yeah.

On the other side. But because of our fear of danger, we tend to – our thoughts tend to gravitate towards the worst-case scenario. Yes. And we want to frame that. And it's one of the real problems with prejudice. Whether it's prejudice towards different uh, different minorities or prejudice towards police officers or anything. It's like, we want to look at the worst case scenario and say, this is an example of what this is all about. And you see that even with people, how they frame

genders, some, some men frame women like that. They get ripped off by a few women and they decide all women are evil. Some women get fucked over by a few men. All men are shit. And this is very toxic. It is. It's also, it's a very unbalanced way of viewing the world and it's very emotionally based and it's based on your own experience, your own anecdotal experience. And it can be very influential to the people around you and it's just, it's a dangerous way, it's a dangerous thought process and pattern to the people around you. And it's just, it's a dangerous way. It's a dangerous thought process and pattern to promote.

It is. It is a very dangerous thought pattern. I really think, you know, people should give other people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're good until proven otherwise. And I think really most people are actually pretty good people. Nobody's perfect. They have to be. If you think of the vast numbers of us that are just interacting with each other constantly,

we have to be better than we think we are. There's no other way. I mean, here are these weapons, but how many times nobody's presumably tried to murder you in your studio? Nobody yet. Yes, nobody's. Now there's a fake flamethrower here. I'm not a flamethrower. Now we've got a real problem. I'm going to put it on that side, too.

I'm going to leave it for the guests. Yeah. I'm like, look, man, if I say something that fucked up, it's right there. It's going to liven things up for sure. It's guaranteed to make any party better. Yeah. Well, that's the armed civilization theory, right? That an armed community is a safe and polite community.

Yeah. In Texas, it's kind of true. Yeah, I mean. People in Texas are super polite and everyone's got a gun. Yes. Don't make somebody angry. Yeah. Don't know what's going to happen.

Yeah, it's not a good move. Yeah. Piss people off when everybody can have a gun. You're better off to just let that guy get in your lane. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we've got a big test site in central Texas near Waco. Oh, beautiful.

Yeah, SpaceX in McGregor. It's about 15 minutes away from Waco. That's close to where Ted Nugent lives. It is? Shout out to Ted Nugent. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's close to where Ted Nugent lives.

It is? Shout out to Ted Nugent. Okay, cool. Yeah, we have lots of fire and loud explosions and things. I bet. They're cool with it. They don't give a fuck out there. They're very supportive.

Yeah, you can buy fireworks where your kids go to school. Yeah, it's dangerous. Yeah, but it's free. It's free. There's something about Texas that's very enticing because of that. It is dangerous, but it's also free. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I kind of like Texas, actually. Well, I prefer it over places that are more restrictive but more liberal because you could always be liberal. Just because things are free and just because you have a certain amount of right know right wing type characters it doesn't mean you have to be that way you know and and honestly there's a lot of those people that are pretty fucking open-minded and let you do whatever you want to do right you don't bother them yeah exactly that's my hope right now with um the way we're able to communicate with each other today and how radically different it is than generations past is that we all just, the dust settles and we all realize like, like what you were saying that most people are good.

Most people are good. The vast majority. Yes. I think you should give people the benefit of the doubt for sure. I think you're right. Yeah. You know what could help that? Mushrooms.

Mushrooms. Don't you think? They're delicious. Yeah, right? Yeah. They're good for you, too. Yeah. All of them.

All kinds of them. What do you see in terms of, like, when you think about the future of your companies, what do you see as, like, bottlenecks? You want some more of this? Sure. Thank you. What do you see as like bottlenecks? You want some more of this?

Sure. Thank you. What do you see in terms of like bottlenecks, of things that are holding back innovation? Is it regulatory commissions and people that don't understand the technology that are influencing policy? What could potentially be holding you guys back right now? Is there anything that you would change? Yeah. That's a good question.

You know, I wish politicians were better at science. That would help a lot. That's a problem. Yes. There's no incentive for them to be good at science. There isn't. Actually, they're pretty good at science in China, I have to say. Yeah, the mayor of Beijing has, I believe, an environmental engineering degree,

and the deputy mayor has a physics degree. I met them. And the mayor of Shanghai is really smart. You're up on technology. What do you think about this government policy of stopping use of Huawei phones? And there's something about the worry about spying. I mean, from what I understand from real tech people, they think it's horseshit. Oh, I don't know. I don't know um like the government say don't you buy huawei phones is that do you are you up on that at all no should we just abandon this idea

well i think like i guess if you're if you're uh if you have like top secret stuff um then you want to be pretty careful about what hardware you use. But, you know, like most people do not have top secret stuff. Right. And like nobody really cares what porn you watch. Right. Or it's like nobody actually cares, you know. And if they do, that's kind of on them.

It's like national spy agencies do not give a rat's ass what porn you watch. They do not care. So like what secrets does a national spy agency have to learn from the average citizen? Nothing. Well, that's the argument against the narrative. And the argument by a lot of these tech people is that the real concern is that these companies like Huawei are innovating at a radical pace. And they're trying to stop them from integrating into our culture and letting this – like right now, they're the number two cell phone manufacturer in the world. Samsung's number one.

Huawei is number two. Apple is now number three. They surpassed Apple as number two. And the idea is that this is all taking place without them having any foothold whatsoever in America. There's no carriers that have their phones. You have to buy their phones unlocked through some sort of a third party and then put – And the worry is that these are somehow or another controlled by the Chinese government. The communist Chinese government is going to distribute these phones. And I don't know if the worry is economic influence,

that they'll have too much power. I don't know what it is. Are you paying attention to any of this? Not really. No? I don't think we should worry too much about Huawei phones. Maybe our national security agencies shouldn't have Huawei phones. Maybe that's a question mark. But I think for the average citizen

it doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure the Chinese government does not care about the goings on of the average American citizen. Is there a time where you think that there will be no security, where it will be impossible to hold back information, that whatever bottleneck we'll let go, we're going to give in, that whatever bottleneck between privacy and ultimate innovation will have to be bridged in order for us to achieve the next level of technological proficiency that we're just going to abandon it. And there'll be no security, no privacy. Do people want privacy? Because they seem to put everything on the internet. Well, right now they're confused.

But when you're talking about your neural link and this idea that one day we are going to be able to share information and we're going to be some sort of a thing that's symbiotically connected. I think we really need to worry about sort of a thing that's symbiotically connected. Yeah. I think we really need to worry about security in that situation, for sure. That's like a security paramount. Sure. But also, what we will be is we'll be so much different. Our concerns about money, about status, about wealth, all these things will seemingly go by the wayside if we really become enlightened, if we really become artificially enlightened by some sort of an AI

Interface where we have the symbiotic relationship with some new internet type connection to information What you know what happens then What what happens then? What is important and what is not important? Is privacy important when we're all gods? I mean, I think the things that we think are important to keep private right now, we probably will not think are important. Shame, right?

Information, right? What are you hiding? Emot right? What are you hiding? Emotions? What are we hiding? I mean, I think like, I don't know, maybe it's like embarrassing stuff. Right. Embarrassing stuff. But there's actually, like I think people, there's like not that much that's kept private that people, that is actually relevant.

Right. That other people actually care about. I mean we think other people care about it but they don't really care about it and certainly governments don't. Well, some people care about it but then it gets weird when it gets exposed. Like Jennifer Lawrence, when all those naked pictures of her got exposed. Like I think in some ways people liked her more. They realized like she's just a person, just a girl who likes sex and is just alive and has a boyfriend and sends them messages. And now you get to look into it and you probably shouldn't have.

But somebody let it go and they put it online and all right. She seems to be doing okay. She's a person. She's just you and me and it's the same thing. She's just in some weird place where she's on a 35 foot tall screen with music playing every time she talks yeah i i i i mean i'm sure she's she's like not a not happy about it but she's she's but she's clearly doing fine but once this interface is fully realized where we really do become something far more powerful in terms of our cognitive ability, our ability to understand irrational thoughts and mitigate them.

And that we're all connected in some sort of an insane way. What do I mean? How, what are our thoughts on wealth, our thoughts on social status, like how many of those just evaporate and our need for privacy? Maybe our need for privacy? Maybe our need for privacy will be the ultimate bottleneck that we'll have to surpass. I think the things that we think are important now will probably not be important in the future. But there will be things that are important. What will be more important? Different things.

There might be some war of ideas, potentially. I don't think Darwin's going away. Right. Darwin's going to be there. Darwin will be there forever. Forever, yeah. It will just be a different arena. Different arena. A digital arena. Different arena.

A digital arena. Different arena. Darwin's not going away. What keeps you up at night? Well, it's quite hard to run companies. Yeah. Especially car companies, I would say. It's quite challenging.

The car business is the hardest one of all the things you do? Yes. Because it's a consumer-oriented business as opposed to like SpaceX and... Not that SpaceX... SpaceX is no walk in the park, but a car company, it's very difficult to keep a car company alive. It's very difficult.

You know, there's only two car companies in the history of American car companies that haven't gone bankrupt, and that's Ford and Tesla. That's it. Yeah, Ford rode out that crazy storm, huh? They're the only ones. By the skin of their teeth. Shout out to the Mustang.

Yeah. Yeah, by the skin of their teeth. That is interesting, right? Same with Tesla. We barely survived. How close did you get to folding? Very close. 2008 is not a good time to be a car company, especially a startup car company, and especially an electric car company. That was like stupidity squared.

And this is when you had those cool Roadsters with the T-top? With the target top? Yeah. We had like a highly modified Elise chassis. The body was all completely different. By the way, that was a super dumb strategy that we actually did. Why was it dumb? It was based on two false premises.

One false premise was that we'd be able to cheaply convert the Lotus Elise and use that as a car platform. And that we would be able to use technology from this little company called AC Propulsion for the electric drivetrain and the battery. Problem is, the AC Propulsion technology did not work in production, and we ended up using none of it in the long term, none of it. We had to redesign everything. And then once you add a battery pack and electric motor to the car, it got heavier, it got 30% heavier, invalidated the entire structure, all the crash structure,

everything had to be redone. Nothing. I think it had less than 7% of the parts were common with any other device, including cars or anything. Less than 7%? Yes. Everything, including tires and wheels, bolts, brakes, steering wheel, seats. The steering wheel was, I think the steering wheel was almost the same. Yes, the windscreen.

Different. No, I think the windscreen was the same. Same. Yes, I think we were able to keep the windscreen... Less than 7%. So that's basically... Every body panel was different. The entire structure was different. We couldn't use the HVAC system, the air conditioner.

It was a belt-driven air conditioner. So now we needed something that was electrically driven. We needed a new AC compressor. And all that takes away from the battery life as well, right? Yeah. We needed a small, highly efficient air conditioning system that fit in a tiny car and was electrically powered, not belt-driven. It was very difficult.

How much did those weigh? Those cars? The Roadster? I think it was about 2,700 pounds. That's still very light. Depending on which version, 2,650 to 2,750 pounds, something like that. And what was the weight distribution? It was about

50... Well, there were different versions of the car um so it's about 55 on the rear because it was rear bias right but not bad like considering like a 911 which is like one of the most it despite Newton not being on their side. Yeah. If you're fighting Newton, it's very difficult. Well. It's like you've got this. The moments of inertia on a 911 don't make any sense.

They do once you understand them. Once you understand them. You don't want to hang the engine off the gas. This is not a wise move. You don't want to let up on the gas when you're in a corner. The problem with something that's where the engine is mounted over the rear axle or off the rear axle towards the rear is that your pull moment of inertia is fundamentally screwed. You cannot solve this. It's unsolvable.

You're screwed. Pull moment of inertia inertia you're screwed. Right. Like essentially if you spun the car like a top that's your pull a moment of inertia. You're just I promise I wouldn't swear on this show by the way.

Really? To who? To a friend. Tell that friend to go fuck himself. Who told you not to swear? A friend. That's not a good friend. Yes. That friend needs to realize you're fucking Elon Musk. You can do whatever you want, man. If you ever get confused, call me.

I'll swear in private. Swear up a storm. Just say frickin'. It's a fun way. There's like old house moms. Wives and shit that have children. this freaking thing yeah but anyway like like the porsche is kind of incredible how well porsche handles given that uh it's the physics yes moments of inertia aren't so messed up uh to actually still make it work well is is incredible well

if you know how to turn into the corner once once you get used to the feeling of it, there's actual benefits to it. You know, there are some benefits. I enjoy, the car I had before Tesla was a 911. Oh, okay. That was... 997 or 6? Yeah.

997? Yeah. Yeah. Great car, man. Yeah, I mean, particularly on the Porsche Turbo when they had the variable vanes, the turbo, and you didn't have the turbo lag, that was great. Yeah. That was really great. The turbo lag was like, you know, you floor it, like phone home, call your mom.

The older ones, right? About an hour later, the car accelerates. And super dangerous, too, because then the rear wheels start spinning. Yeah. Yeah. There's something fun about it, though, like feeling that rear weight kicking around. You know, and again, it's not efficient. It had a good feel to it.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But that's what I was talking about earlier about that little car that I have, the 93 911. It's just, it's not fast. It's not the best handling car. But it's more satisfying than any other car I have because it's so mechanical.

It's like everything about it like crackles and bumps and it gives you all this feedback. And I take it to the comedy store because when I get there, I feel like my brain is just popping and it's on fire. It's like a strategy for me now that I really stop driving other cars there. I drive that car there just for the brain juice, just for the interaction. I mean, you should try Model S P100D. I'll try it. It will blow your mind out of your skull. Okay.

Yeah. Tell me what to order. I'll order it. Model S P100D. Okay. Jamie, write it down. That's the car that I drive. Okay.

Okay, I'll get with the car you drive. Okay. It will blow your mind out of your skull. I believe That's the car that I drive. Okay, I'll get with the car you drive. Okay. It will blow your mind out of your skull. I believe you. How far can I drive? About 300 miles. That's good.

For LA regular days. You'll never notice the battery. Never. Never. How hard is it to get one of them crazy plugs installed in your house? That difficult? No, it's super easy. It's easy it's like yeah it's like a dryer plug it's like a dryer outlet didn't you come up with some crazy tiles for your roof that are solar

paneled yeah yeah we're i have it on my roof right now actually i'm just trying it out it's like it the thing it takes a while to like test roof stuff because roofs have to last a long time right so like you want your roof to last like 30 years over a regular roof now so there's two versions there's like the solar panels you put on a roof so like depends on whether your roof to last at least 30 years. Could you put it over a regular roof? So there's two versions. There's the solar panels you put on a roof. So it depends on whether your roof is new or old. So if your roof is new, you don't want to replace the roof. You want to put solar panels on the roof.

Right. So that's retrofit. And then we try to make the retrofit panels look real nice. But then the new product we're coming out with is if you have a roof that's either you're building a house or you're going to replace your roof anyway, then you make the tiles have solar cells embedded in the tiles. And then it's quite a tricky thing because you want to not see the solar cell behind the glass tile. So you have to really work with the glass and the various coatings and layers so that you don't see the solar cell behind the glass. Otherwise, it doesn't look right.

So it's really tricky. There it is. Jamie put it up there. Yeah. Man, that looks good. See, if you look closely, you can see if you're zooming right, you can see the cell. But if you're zooming, you can see the cell.

But if you zoom out, you don't see the cell. Right. Well, it looks cool, though. That's hard. Invisible solar cells. That's really hard because you have to have sunlight go through. Right. But when it gets reflected back out, it hides the fact that there's a cell there.

Now, are those available to the consumer right now? Well, we have, I think about... Those on that roof right there? Yes. That's amazing. Oh, that looks good. Yeah. Ooh, I like that.

That one is hard. Oh, so you get that kind of fake Spanish-looking thing. I like that. That's French slate. That's white people in Connecticut smoking pipes. Look at that one. Yeah. That's badass, dude. That's French light. That's white people in Connecticut smoking pipes. Look at that one. Yeah. That's badass, dude.

Those will actually work. I believe you. So the solar panels that are on that house that we just looked at, is that sufficient to power the entire home? It depends on your energy, on how efficient. Yeah, yeah. So generally, yes. I would say it's probably for most, it's going to vary, but anywhere from more than you need to maybe half.

Like call it half to 1.5 of the energy that you need, depending on how much roof you have relative to living space and how ridiculous you are with tv tv is no problem air conditioning air conditioning air conditioning is the problem if you have an efficient air conditioner and you don't and depending on how like are you air conditioning rooms when they don't need to be air conditioned which is very common because it's a pain in the neck you know it's like programming a VCR. It's like – it's just a blinking 12. So people are just like, hell with that.

I'm just going to make it this temperature all day long. Right. They don't have a smart home where if you're in the room, then it stays cool, right? Yeah. It should predict when you're going to be home and then cool the rooms that you're likely to use with a little bit of intelligence. We're not talking about like genius home here. We're just talking like elementary basic stuff. You know, like if you could hook that into the car, like it knows you're coming home.

Like there's no point in cooling the home, keeping the home really cool when you're not there. But it can tell that you're coming home. It's going to cool it to the right temperature right when you get there. That works with your solar panels or anything like that? Yeah. Yeah, we do. But we need to hook it into the air conditioning to really make the air conditioning work. Have you thought about creating an air conditioning system?

I know you have. Trick question. I know you have trick question okay let's just let it go we'll move on to the next thing that would be an interesting idea yeah I would say radiant heating all that good ideas now when you when you think about the efficiency of these homes and you think about implementing solar power and battery power, is there anything else that people are missing? Is there any other – like I just saw a smart watch that is powered by the heat of the human body. It's some new technology. It's able to fully power that way? I don't know if it's fully or if it's like this watch right here.

This is a Casio. Okay. It's called a ProTech, and it's like an outdoors watch, and it's solar powered. Okay. And so it has the ability to operate for a certain amount of time on solar. Yeah. So if you have it exposed, it could function for a certain amount of time on solar. Yeah.

Well, you know, like there's the self-winding watches where, you know, it's just got a weight in the watch. And as you move your wrist, the weight moves from one side to the other and it winds the watch up. That's a pretty cool thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's amazing that like Rolex is that it's all done mechanically. There's no batteries in there. There's no nothing. Yeah. You could do the same thing, create a little charger that's based on a wrist movement, but it really depends on how much energy your watch uses. You know what's fucked up about that, though? We accept a certain amount of fuckery with those watches. I brought my watch.

I have a Rolex that my friend Lorenzo gave me, and I brought it to the watch store, and I said, this thing's always fast. I said, it's always like after a couple months, it's like five minutes fast. And they go yep they go yeah really it's just what it does okay hold on i go so you're telling me that it just is always going to be fast they's like yeah it's just like every few months you gotta like

reset it it seems like they should recalibrate that thing they can't they tried they say every few months whether it's four months or five months or six months, it's going to be a couple minutes fast. Okay. It seems like they should really recalibrate that because if it's always fast, you can just delete those minutes. You need to fucking kick down the door at Rolex and go, you bitches are lazy. It's kind of amazing that you can keep time mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears. It's amazing. I mean, the whole luxury watch market is fascinating. that you can keep time mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears. It's amazing. Yeah.

I mean, the whole luxury watch market is fascinating. I'm not that involved in terms of, like, I don't buy them. I bought them as gifts, so I don't buy them for myself. But when I look at them online, there's million-dollar watches out there now that are, like, they have, like, little rotating moons and stars, and they they live like look at this thing how much is that one jamie these are fucking preposterous i like gears i love them yeah i think they're beautiful but there's some of these people that are just taking

it right in the ass they're buying these watches for like 750 000 i'm like yo that's a timex son nobody knows it's not any better than some Casio that you could just buy online. Like, look at that, though. Well, here's the thing. If you're a person that doesn't just want to know the time, you want craftsmanship, you want some artisan's touch, you want innovation in terms of, like, a person figuring out how gears and cogs all line up perfectly to every time it turns over it's basically a second i mean that's just there's there's art to that

that's yeah i agree yeah it's not just telling time i like this watch a lot but if it got hit by a rock i wouldn't be sad yeah it's just a just a watch. It's a mass-produced thing that runs on some quartz battery. But those things, there's art to that. No, I agree. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Love it.

Yeah. There's something amazing about it. Because it represents the human creativity. It's not just electronic innovation. There's something. There's a person's work in that. Yes. But you don't have a watch on.

No. Ever? I used to have a watch. What happened? My phone tells the time. Good point. What if you lose your phone? Wait, hold on.

True. Let me guess. You are a no-case guy. That's correct. Living on the edge. Living on the edge without a case. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson was in here last week.

I marveled at his ability to get through life without a case. That's right. You know, he takes his phone and he flips it in between his fingers like a soldier would do with his rifle. Really? He just rolls that shit in between his fingers. Okay. Marvelous. Wow.

He says that's the reason why they do it. He said, when you look at someone who has a rifle, why would they do that? Why would they flip it around like that? Right. So that when it goes to drop, they have it in their hand. They catch it quickly so that's what he does with his phone he's just flipping his phone around all the time i got that in mexico i was hoping it holds joints does it do anything it seems to open it's just a whole good storage

store things in there but like try to put a joint in there. Close it. You put like one. One blunt. One. But it seems pretentious. You know? That's the idea behind it. I bought it when I was in Mexico because I figured it would be a good size to hold joints. Or not. So is that a joint?

Or is it a cigar? No. Okay. It's marijuana inside of tobacco. Okay. So it's like pot, tobacco, pot. You never had that? Yeah, I think I tried one once.

Come on, man. You probably can't because of stockholders, right? I mean, it's legal, right? Totally legal. Okay. How does that work? Do people get upset at you if you do certain things? There's tobacco and marijuana in there.

That's all it is. The combination of tobacco and marijuana is wonderful. First turned on to it by Charlie Murphy and then reignited by Dave Chappelle. There you go. Plus whiskey. Exactly. Perfect. Balances it out. Alcohol's a drug. It's been grandfathered in.

Well, it's not just a drug. It's a drug that gets a bad rap because you just have a little. It's great. Fine. Yeah, a little sip here and there and your inhibitions are relaxed and it shows your true self and hopefully you're more joyous and friendly and happy and and everything's good the real worry is the people that can't handle it like the real worry about people who can't handle cars that can go 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds or anything. Have you ever considered something that, like, imagine if one day everyone has a car that's on the same, at least technological standard as one of your cars, and everyone agrees that

the smart thing to do is not just to have bumpers, but to perhaps have some sort of a magnetic repellent device something some electromagnetic field around the cars and as cars come close to each other they automatically radically decelerate because of magnets or something well i mean our cars break automatically break yeah yeah when they see things yes but like a physical barrier like uh well the wheels work pretty well the wheels do yeah yeah they work pretty well Yes. But like a physical barrier. Well, the wheels work pretty well. The wheels do.

Yeah, yeah. They work pretty well. Decelerated, that's 1.1 to 1.2 Gs, that kind of thing. Is there a concern that one day all your cars will be on the road and that there will still be regular people with regular cars 20, 30 years from now that will get in the mix and be the main problem? regular people with regular cars 20, 30 years from now that'll get in the mix and be the main problem? Yeah, I think it'd be sort of like

it was a time of transition where there were horses and gasoline cars on the road at the same time. It's been pretty weird. Oh, that'd be the weirdest. Yeah. And horses were tricky. Back in Manhattan had like 300, were tricky. You know, back in Manhattan, I had like 300,000 horses.

You figure, like, if a horse lives 15 years, you've got 20,000 horses dropping dead every day. Or every year, I should say. Every year is 20,000 horses if there's 300,000 horses in a 15-year lifespan.

Back in the gangs in New York days. That movie? Yeah. It's a lot of dead horses and you need a horse to move the horse right they'll probably get pretty freaked out if they have to move a dead horse do you think they know what's going on yeah i mean it's gonna be like pretty weird like no i would imagine why am i dragging this dead horse around? And I'm a horse. Do you ever stop and think about your role in civilization? Do you ever stop and think about your role in the culture? Because me as a person who never met you until today,

when I think of you, I've always thought of you as being this weirdo, super inventor dude who just somehow or another keeps coming up with new shit. But there's not a lot of you out there. Like, everybody else seems to be, I mean, obviously, you make a lot of money, and there's a lot of people that make a lot of money. You like that? Clock? Yeah. Pretty dope, right?

This is a great clock. Yeah, you want one? I'll get you one. Sure. Okay. Done. I like weird things like this. Oh, this is the coolest.

It's TGT Promotion. What is this? TGT Studios? TGT Studios? TGT Studios? Yeah. It's a gentleman who makes all this by hand. Yeah, it's really cool. My study is filled with weird devices.

Well, get ready for another one. I'm sending it your way. You want a werewolf too? I'll hook you up. Alright. I'll take one. One werewolf too? I'll hook you up. All right. I'll take one. One werewolf and one clock coming up. Do you think about your role in the culture? Because me as a person who never met you until today, I've always looked at you and like,

wow, how does this guy just keep inventing shit? How do you keep coming up with all these new devices? Do you ever consider how on you? Like, I had a dream once that there was a million Teslas. Instead of like one Tesla, there was a million Teslas. Okay. Not Chesley the car, but Nikola. Oh, yeah, sure.

And that in his day, there was a million people like him who were radically innovative. It was a weird dream, man. It was so strange. And I've had it more than once. Resulting in very rapid technology innovation. That's for sure. It's one of the only dreams in my life I've had more than one time. Okay.

Like where I've woken up and it's in the same dream. I'm in the same dream. And in this dream, it's 1940s, 1950s. But everyone is severely advanced there's flying blimps with like lcd screens on the side of them and everything's bizarre and strange and it stuck with me for whatever obviously this is just a stupid dream but for whatever reason all these years that stuck with me like it takes one man like nikola tesla to have more than a hundred inventions that were patents right i mean he had some it's pretty great pretty fucking amazing ideas yes but there was in his day there was very few people like him that's true what if there was

a million like what and then things would advance very quickly. Right. But there's not a million Elon Musks. There's one motherfucker. Do you think about that? Or do you just try to not? Hmm. Hmm. I don't think

I don't think you'd necessarily want to be me Well What's the worst part about you? I don't think people would like it that much Well most people wouldn't but they can't be you So that's like That's like some superhero type shit You know

You wouldn't want to be Spider-Man Rather just sleep tight in Gotham City I hope he's out there doing his job. It's very hard to turn it off. Yeah. What's the hardest part? It might sound great if it's turned on, but what if it doesn't turn off? Now, I showed you the isolation tank, and you've never experienced that before.

No. I think that could help you turn it off a little bit just for the night. Yeah, just give you a little bit of sleep, a little bit of perspective. It's magnesium that you get from the water as well that makes you sleep easier because the water has epsom salts in it. But maybe some sort of strategy for sacrificing your biological, not sacrificing, but enhancing your biological recovery time by figuring out a way, whether it's through meditation or some other ways to shut off that thing at night. Like you must have like a constant stream of ideas

that's running through your head all the time. You getting text messages from chicks? No. you getting text messages from chicks no uh i'm getting text messages from from friends saying what the hell are you doing smoking weed is that bad for you it's legal it's government approved it's not you know uh i'm not a regular smoker of weed how often you smoke it? Almost never. How does it feel? I don't actually notice any effect.

Well, there you go. There was a time where I think it was Ram Dass or someone gave some Buddhist monk a bunch of acid. Okay. And he ate it, and it had no effect on him. I doubt that. I would say that too, but I've never meditated to the level that some of these people have, where they're constantly meditating all day. They don't have any material possessions, and all of their energy is spent trying to achieve a certain mindset.

I would like to cynically deny that. I'd like to cynically say, they just fucking think the same way I do. They just hang out with flip-flops on and make weird noises but maybe no you know i i know a lot of people like weed and that's fine uh but i don't find that it is very good for productivity for you not for me yeah it's i mean i would imagine that for someone like you, it's not. Someone like you, it would be more like a cup of coffee, right? You want to, you have a latte. Yeah, it's more like the opposite of a cup of coffee.

What do you like? It's like a cup of coffee in reverse. Oh, weed is. Yeah. No, I'm saying you would like more, more like what would be beneficial to you would be like coffee. I like to get things done would be beneficial to you would be like coffee i like to get things done i like to be useful um that is one of the hardest things to do is to be useful

when you say you like to get things done like in terms of like what gives you satisfaction when you complete a project when something something that you invent comes to fruition and you see people enjoying it that feeling yes doing something useful for other people that i like doing that's interesting for other people yes so that do you think that that is maybe the way you recognize that you have this unusual position in the culture where you can uniquely influence certain things because of this i mean you essentially have a gift right i mean you would think it was a curse but i'm sure it's been fueled by many many years of discipline and learning but you essentially have a gift and that you have this radical

sort of creativity engine when it comes to innovation and technology it's like you're just you're going at a very high RPMs all the time what is that like? it doesn't stop I don't know what would happen if I got into a sensory deprivation tank

let's try it sounds concerning it's like running the engine with no resistance What would happen if I got into a sensory deprivation tank? Let's try it. Sounds concerning. It's like running the engine with no resistance. Is that what it is, though? Maybe it's not. Maybe it's fine. I don't know. I'll try it.

I'll try it. Have you ever experimented with meditation or anything? Yes. What do you do? Or what have you done, rather? I mean, you just sort of sit there and be quiet and then repeat some

mantra, which acts as a focal point. It distills the mind. It distills the mind. But I don't find myself drawn to it frequently. Do you think that perhaps productivity is maybe more attractive to you than enlightenment? Or even the concept of whatever enlightenment means.

Like what are you trying to achieve when you're meditating all the time with you it seems like almost like there's a franticness to your creativity that comes out of this this burning furnace and for in order for you to like calm that thing down you might have to throw too much water on it it's like a never-ending explosion like what is it like i try to explain it to a dumb person like me what's going on never ending explosion it's just constant ideas just bouncing around yes damn yeah so when everybody leaves it's just elon sitting at home brushing his teeth just a bunch of ideas bouncing around in your head. Yeah.

All the time. When did you realize that that's not the case with most people? I think when I was, I don't know, five or six or something. I thought I was insane. Why did you think you were insane because it was clear that other people did not what their mind wasn't exploding with ideas all the time they weren't expressing it they weren't talking about it all day and you realize by the time you were five or six like oh they're

probably not even getting this thing that I'm getting no it was just strange it was like hmm i'm strange that was my conclusion i'm strange but did you feel diminished by it in any way like knowing that this is a weird thing that you really probably couldn't commiserate with with other people they wouldn't understand you i hope they wouldn't find out because they might like put me away with something you thought that for a second yes when you were little yeah and they put people away what if they put me away like when you were little you thought this yes wow like you thought this is so radically different than the people that are around me if they find out i got this stream coming in yeah wow

but you know i was only like five or six so like do you think this is like i mean there's there's outliers biologically you mean there's people that are seven foot nine there's people that have giant hands there's people that have eyes that are 2015 vision. There's always outliers. Do you feel like you like caught this? Like you have got some, you're like on some weird innovation, creativity sort of wave that's very unusual.

Like you tapped into... I mean, just think of the various things you've been able to accomplish in a very short amount of time. And you're constantly doing this. That's a weird... You're a weird person, right? I agree.

Yeah. Like, what if there's a million Elon Musks? Well, that would be very very weird whoo whoo yeah we pretty weird like right real weird definitely yeah what if there are million show rockets oh the probably is probably two million I mean I think that's the case with a lot of folks. Yeah.

I mean, but like, you know, my goal is like try to do useful things, try to maximize the probability the future is good, make the future exciting. Something you look forward to, you know. make the future exciting, something you look forward to, you know, you know, with, you know, with Tesla,

we're like trying to make things that people love. You know, it's like not, how many, how many things can you buy that you really love, that really give you joy? So rare, so rare.

I wish there were more things. That's what we're trying to do. Just make things that somebody loves. That's so difficult. When you think about making things that someone loves, do you specifically think about what things would improve people's experience? What would change the way people interface with life that would make them more relaxed or more happy you really think

like when you're thinking about things like that is that like one of your considerations like what what could i do that would help people that maybe they wouldn't be able to figure out yeah like like what are the set of things that can be done to make the future better like you know like so i think that a future where we are a space-faring civilization and out there among the stars this is very exciting this makes me look forward to the future this makes me want that future you know the things they need to be things that make you look forward to waking up in the morning. You wake up in the morning, you look forward to the day, you look forward to the future. A future where we are a space-faring civilization and out there among the stars, I think that's very exciting.

That is a thing we want. Whereas if you knew we would not be a space-faring civilization but forever confined to Earth, this would not be a good future. That would be very sad, I think. We don't want the sad future. Of just the finite lifespan of the Earth itself and the solar system itself, that even though it's possibly, you know, I mean, how long do they feel like this sun and the solar system is going to exist? How many hundreds of millions of years?

Well, it's probably, if you're saying when does the sun boil the oceans? Right. About 500 million years. So is it sad that we never leave because in 500 million years that happens? Is that what you're saying? No, I just think like if there are two futurists and one futurist we're out there among the stars and the things we read about and see in science fiction movies the good ones are true we have these starships and we're we're going to see what other planets are like and We're a multi-planet species and the scope and scale of consciousness has expanded across many civilizations and many planets and many star systems.

This is a great future. This is a wonderful thing to me. And that's what we should strive for. But that's biological travel. That's cells traveling physically to another location. Yes. Do you think that's definitely where we're going? No.

Yeah, I don't think so either. I used to think so, and now I'm thinking more likely less than ever, like almost every day less likely. We can definitely go to the moon and Mars. Yeah. Do you think we'll colonize? We can go to the asteroid belt and we can go to the moons of Jupiter, Saturn.

We can even get to Pluto. That would be the craziest place ever if we colonized Mars and re-terraformed it and turned it into like a big Jamaica. Just oceans. I think we should. I think that would be great. That would be great. It's possible, right? We could turn the whole thing into Cancun.

Well. I mean, over time. It wouldn't be easy, but yes. Right. You could just warm it up. Yeah. You could warm it up. You could add air.

You could get some water there. I mean, over time. Hundreds of millions of years or whatever it takes. We could be a multi-planet species. That would be amazing. We're a multi-planet species. That's what we want to be. Legitimately air-conditioned Saturn.

I'm pro-human. Me too. Yeah, me too. I love humanity. I think it's great. We're glad, as a robot, that you love humans, because we love you you too and we don't want you to kill us and eat us. I mean, you know, strangely I think a lot of people

don't like humanity and see it as a blight, but I do not. Well, I think one of those I think part of that is just they've been you know, they've been struggling. When people struggle, they associate their struggle with other people. They never internalize their problems. They look to other people as holding them back

and people suck and fuck people. And it's just, you know, it's a never-ending cycle. But not always. Again, most people are really good. Most people. The vast majority. This may sound corny. It does sound corny.

But love is the answer. It is the answer. Yep. Yeah, it is. It sounds corny because we're all scared. You know, we're all scared of trying to love people and being rejected or someone taking advantage of you because you're trying to be loving. Sure. But if we all could just relax and love each other.

Wouldn't hurt to have more love in the world. It definitely wouldn't hurt. Yeah. It'd be great. Yeah, we should do that. Yeah. I agree, man. Really?

How do you get to fix that? You have a love machine you're working on? No, but probably spend more time with your friends and less time on social media. Now, deleting social media from your applications, from your phones, does that give you a 10% boost to happiness? What do you think the percentage is? I think probably something like that, yeah. Yeah, a good 10%.

Yeah. I mean, the only thing I've kept is Twitter because I kind of need some means of getting a message out. Right. Well, that's about it. So far, so good. Well, what's interesting with you, you actually occasionally engage with people on Twitter. Yeah. What percentage of that is a good idea? Ha ha. You actually occasionally engage with people on Twitter. Yeah.

What percentage of that is a good idea? Ha ha. Good question. Probably 10%, right? It's hard. It's mostly, I think it's on balance more good than bad, but there's definitely some bad. So hopefully the good outweighs the bad. Do you ever think about how odd it is, the weird feeling that you get when someone says something shitty to you

on Twitter and you read it, the weird feeling? This weird little negative jolt. It's like a subjective negative jolt of energy that you don't really need to absorb, but you anyway well fuck this guy fuck him i mean there's a lot of negativity on twitter it is but it's a weird it's in in its form like the way if you ingest it as if you're like you try to be like a little scientist as you're ingesting it you're like well how weird is this? And I'm even getting upset at some strange person saying something mean to me. It's not even accurate. I mean, there are a vast number of negative comments.

So the vast majority of them, I just ignore them. The vast majority. Yeah. But every now and again, you get drawn in. It's not good. It's not good. Make mistakes. Yes, you can make mistakes. You can make some mistakes. you're drawn in. It's not good. It's not good. Make mistakes. Yes, you can make mistakes.

You can make some mistakes. We're all human. We can make mistakes. Yeah. It's hard. And people love it when you say something and you take it back. And they're like, fuck you. We saved it forever.

Fucking screenshot that shit, bitch. You had that thought. You had that thought. You're like, well, I deleted it. Not good enough. You had the thought you had that thought you're like well i deleted it not good enough you had the thought i'm better than you i never had that thought you had that thought you piece of shit look i saved it i put it on my blog yeah i'm not sure why people think that that anyone would think that deleting a tweet makes it go away it's like hello been on the internet for a while.

Yeah. Well, it's even like, the thing is they don't want you to be able to delete it. Because the problem is, if you don't delete it and you don't believe it anymore, it's really hard to say, hey, that thing above, I don't really believe that anymore.

I changed the way I view things. Yes. Because people go, well, fuck you. I have that over there. I'm going to just take that. I'm not going to pay attention to that shit you you wrote on your it's on your permanent record forever bro Like I said to will put this on your permanent record. Yeah, it's like a tattoo you keep it. Oh, yeah. Yeah Well, it's it's this thing where there's it's it's a there's a lack of compassion

It's a lack of compassion issue people just like intentionally shitty to each other all the time online and trying to catch me. They're more trying to catch people doing something that's arrestable, like a cop trying to like get, you know, arrests on his record. It's like they're trying to catch you with something more than they're logically looking at it thinking it's a bad thing that you've done or that it's an idea they don't agree with so much they need to insult you trying to catch you yeah i mean it's way easier to be mean on social media than it is to be mean in person yes way easier yeah yes it's weird it's not a normal way of human interacting it's cheating we're not supposed to be able to interact so easily with people we're not looking at. Yes. You would never do that.

You'd never be so mean to somebody looking in their eyes and if you did, you'd feel like shit. Most people. Yeah, unless you're a sociopath, you'd feel terrible. Yes.

Elon Musk, this has been a pleasure. Yeah, likewise. It really has been. It's been an honor. Thank you for having me. Thanks for doing this because I know you don't do a lot of

long form stuff like this. I hope I didn't weird you out and I hope you don't get mad that you smoke weed. It's not bad. It's legal. We're in California. This is just as legal as this whiskey we've been drinking. Exactly.

This is all good, right? Cheers. Thank you. Is there any message you would like to put out other than love is the answer? Cause I think you really nailed it with that. No, I think, you know, I think people should be nicer to each other and give people and give, give more credit to others and don't assume that they're mean until you know they're actually mean. You know, just it's easy to demonize people.

You're usually wrong about it. People are nicer than you think. Give people more credit. I couldn't agree more and I want to thank you not just for all the crazy innovations you've come up with and your constant flow of ideas, but that you choose to spread that idea, which is, it's a, it's a very vulnerable, but it's very honest and I, it resonates with me

and I believe it. I believe it's true too. So thank you. You're welcome. And all you assholes out there, be nice. Be nice, bitch. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Elon. Thank you. Good night, everybody.