The Joe Rogan Experience - #1174 - Vinnie Paz

Episode Date: September 26, 2018

Vinnie Paz is a rapper and the lyricist behind the Philadelphia underground hip hop group Jedi Mind Tricks. He is also the frontman of the hip hop supergroup Army of the Pharaohs.

If they don't fuck up, I don't trust them. My father used to say, if someone doesn't say the word fuck, or if their name is an initial, don't trust them. Yeah, that's a creepy one. Initials are creepy. Yeah. But you never know. It's like, it's not a hard, fast rule. No, I give everyone the fair shake, but I'm looking.

Yeah, hmm. Yeah. If they frickin', if all the time it's frickin' this. Or Mickey Ficky. Yeah. I heard that one time. Oh,'re all the time it's fricking this or Mickey Ficky yeah I heard that one time oh I never heard that one yeah someone said

Mickey Ficky said a motherfucker yeah I wasn't happy about it shut the front door is one like moms like to do around their kids yes yes

yeah hmm yeah I come from a WAP South Philly family so it's like a fucking Richard Pryor you know

the seven fishes on Christmas Eve is like a Richard is like him on the Sunset St, you know, the seven fishes on Christmas Eve is like him on the Sunset Strip. You know who surprisingly doesn't swear? Teddy Atlas. I know Teddy doesn't. I've seen, you know, animated. I don't have to tell you.

He was just on the show. Very animated. Very animated. But yeah, he doesn't really. Yeah. It's like frickin' this and frickin' that. Yeah. Yeah.

What the frick? He says, what the frick? It's nuts. Yeah. You know who also doesn't swear what the frick? It's nuts. Yeah. You know who also doesn't swear? Henry Rollins. Rollins does not. Does not swear.

Yeah, but. And he makes note of it. Note that I don't swear. I mean, I feel like that happened in the second half of his life because Black Flag records, not so much. Yeah, I think he's trying to get, I don't want to say more people to listen to him, like trying to be more mainstream, but he's trying to eliminate the noise. Sure.

In what he's doing. Sure. Yeah. He's a brilliant mind. He is. Yeah. Yeah. Unlike me.

I mean, you're really, Rogan, you've hit a little snag here. Teddy Atlas, Jordan Peterson, Shapiro, henry rollins then this no dude i love your music thank you out of here no we were saying you were saying you know about fuck ups before the show saying i don't know anybody who's an artist who doesn't fuck things up like if you if you really create there's something about being like legitimately creative there has to be something wrong with you you're wired differently yeah so what what we perceive as what people see perceive as fucking up isn't to us yeah so technically it's a fuck up but in reality to us it's just um just behavioral it's just how it works it's just traits yeah sure if you were working in an office in human resources you

there's no way. I'd be gone in like three hours. Yeah. Yeah. But before that, I'd probably put a bullet through my head if I was in a cubicle. Just give up at that point. Some people can do it, though. Some people, it's not a problem.

No. They're just wired that way. I knew from such an early age that now I'm not wired this way. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, me too. I was terrified of getting a job when I was a child. Yeah, it's fearful. But what you've done, though, man, it's – I've told you how much of a fan I am,

but I'm such a fan of how punk rock – you've built all of this outside of rock you've built all of this outside of um what you were expected to do this show is a fuck you really it's just what it is you know what i mean this is this is what happens when you don't calculate yeah well there's no just do what you want to do yeah this is what happens but people don't have the balls to do that it's uh it's a little bit balls it's a little bit Fear Factor gave me a lot of financial freedom sure that helped too

sure News Radio yeah News Radio did a little bit but Fear Factor did way more just gave me enough money so I go okay the money part I got

yeah so now let's just have some fun sure but look what it's become yeah it changed people's lives man it's weird

that's the weird part. That wasn't anticipated. It wasn't part of the plan. Yeah. It was just supposed to be smoking weed and having a good time. Well, you're not aware until you're aware, until people say, yo, you've helped me through tough times. This show has got, you know, people tell me about your show.

Yo, that guy gets me through tough times, you know, and that's, what's more important than that? Well, people need friends, you know, and they need community. And one of the things that this show has shown by having all my friends on all the times, like this is a tight group of people that love each other and care about each other and want to promote that way of thinking and being.

You can do that. You can get through life and all support each other. Like this backstabby bullshit that people get involved in, that is so detrimental to you, to them, to everyone, to the sense of community that you create around each other. A clip of yours went viral of you talking about just get the fuck, keep negative people the fuck away from me. And I had that around me and it was draining

my spirit it's one of the worst things but when you're living a certain way and everything's fast it's the same with comedy and you're on the road yeah you're grinding it out you can't always analyze you can't always step back and say this is why things are fucked up because everything's moving so fast and it wasn't until I took that time and said there's cancers in my life they're basically emotional barnacles

you know what I mean and once you cut the cancer out you see how different things become and it's kind of um i i didn't realize it was that easy yeah you can do it you can do it but to them too it's a good lesson for them to be cast aside and for them if they're smart or if they have some awareness or some objectivity they're going to

look at themselves and say you know what i'm a fucking mess yeah like'm negative all the time, and people don't want to be around me. I was real negative when I was younger. So was I. Yeah. It's not something that's insurmountable. You can get over it. Yeah. And it's whatever hands you've been dealt, you have to realize the reality of the situation, bro.

There's people living in mud huts and places that are smiling. Yeah. And I have the balls to be complaining about. Your tour. Right. Right. And not getting enough sleep. Right.

Or I don't like to travel. Right. You just really have to assess that and say, this isn't the way I should be thinking or processing information. Because we're blessed. Yeah. To do what we do you know what i mean you make people laugh bro for a living i know there's also there's a balance that you can achieve between uh discipline and the creative people like we're talking about like yourself who are just off you know hand tattoos wacky sure something about you know this like

people see you like what the fuck is this guy doing that follow you when you're walking through a store Sure There's the balance between that and then real disciplined people like, you know fucking Navy SEAL type cats Yeah, you learn from them too sure and you go well You can incorporate some of that into your life as well And it helps balance out all the the wacky creative aspects of it And it makes you a little bit more productive a little bit happier you know Dead Presence

they had a song Discipline Makes Things Easier it's a great fucking song it's a great song because it's real it really does discipline makes things easier organize your life for me when

I feel most of course you know because of how you live, but your body feeds into how your mind works, too. When I was talking about those horrible negative years, it was also dictated by terrible diet. Terrible, you you know not that I'm in great shape or anything now but I've changed things and I felt it up here yeah you know what I mean that's what people don't think you feel it in your brain I feel like a different person man after I've after I spar a little bit or whatever it is feel different I I get more energy where you

would think logic would dictate you would get tired. I'm like, now I'm ready to write. Now I'm ready. Crazy, right? You know what I mean? It's counterintuitive. It is. But again, like you said, it's discipline.

My mother's making gravy and meatballs. It's hard to say, Mom, settle down. You can eat that once a week. Once a week, you just go whole hog. Sure. You know? Right, right. Gravy, that's such an East Coast Italian word.

I know. That was my grandparents in New Jersey. It was gravy. Everything was gravy. I apologize to everyone that's not in New York, Philly, and Jersey right now. It's barely New York. It's like, it's not Manhattan. They'll fight you.

They'll say, it's sauce. Yeah. Listen, man. It's fucking gravy, man. Let's not do this. Yeah. Gravy's not Manhattan. Nah, they'll fight you. They'll say, it's sauce. Yeah. Listen, man. It's fucking gravy, man. Let's not do this. Yeah. Gravy's New Jersey. New Jersey, like old school Italian soprano style.

Yes. That's gravy. Philly's gravy. Yes. Then you go south of Philly, it becomes sauce again. Yes. Yeah. It's fucking good no matter what.

It is good. Yeah. It's weird how, like if you go to, have you been to Italy? Yes. A lot of my family's still over there. The food is fucking fantastic. Next level. But it's a different kind of food.

What Italian-Americans did is a totally different cuisine. Yeah, it's interesting, right? It is. The meatballs, the lasagna. Yes. They will put some shit in front of you that you don't know what it is. But all right, let's have at it. Yeah, the Italian food in Italy is lighter.

Yes. You know, it's a lot more fish. And then you have the regions. If you're north, if you're south, if you're in Sigi. Yeah. You know, it's, yeah, it is odd. It was culture shock just to think of what I've been eating for my mother's food and grandparents. You know what I mean?

And then it's just different. My grandmother was fresh off the boat, and she used to cook everything from scratch. Tomato sauce from scratch, everything. The pasta, she would roll the pasta herself. She would do everything. She would make her own bread. She would do everything. Everything from scratch.

The bread was occasional because a lot of times when they lived in New Jersey, there was a store that they would go to, a bread place, that you would go and buy fresh bread basically every couple days. Sure. And it would go bad within hours because it was real bread. And without 8,000 dude I had a piece of bread the other day and it was sitting on the kitchen table for like a few hours I left I went back it was still soft as fuck because it's all filled with chemicals of course man everything is yeah everything is it's like when you realize that there's fluoride in our drinking water and people are just all right with that yeah what I'm not sure that that's

that should be there i've read that i've read about floyd and the drinking water like the pros and cons the pros don't make any sense not to me like brush your fucking teeth bitch yeah like use toothpaste yeah i'm not i mean uh you know i'm not the i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but i don't think it should be in our drinking water. Well, you get into all the conspiracy theories. That's when you got to wade through all the bullshit. Like, okay, it was a Nazi plot to soften minds. And, oh, it wasn't? Or is it just like, I feel like somebody's just got a lot of fluoride they're trying to sell.

And they got some sort of a deal with the government to dump it into the water. That's probably more logical. But the thing is, with all that conspiracy shit, you have to sift through shit because there are kernels in there. That's the problem. Right. But they like that. Yeah. The more ridiculous

the theories, the better it is for them because it seems more ridiculous in that you're alone. Yeah. Oh, you mean they're like the government but whoever whoever's dumping the floor yeah whoever they is bags of floor remember your grandmama used to say they and you go who's they right right right they say that you're not supposed to go who's they who are they but whoever they is whatever they're doing the more ridiculous things seem it it

nullifies some more realistic things, like what they're pumping into food, into cattle, steroids in cattle. Like, for me, when we were younger, bro, white girls didn't have fat asses. Yeah, but they learned squats. You think that's what it is? I don't think it has to do with cattle. I really don't. If you think it's squats-

There's a lot of white girls out there with flat asses to this day. There is. They're just lazy. All right. I'm going to trust you. I you think it's squats. There's a lot of white girls out there with flat asses to this day. There is. They're just lazy. All right. I'm going to trust you because I believe you. You're a gym guy. Most of what's going on with food is not steroids. Most of what's going on with food is antibiotics because they're getting sick from eating corn.

Okay. If you watch, there's a great documentary, King Corn. Okay. And it documents how a lot of cows have huge issues digesting all that corn it's not a natural thing for them they're supposed to eat grass right sure sure it fattens them the fuck up and makes them quite tasty sure but it's really not what they're supposed to be eating that's interesting i mean i guess i always thought chemically speaking that that's what was being pumped into everything nah because it's expensive

they don't need to do it either like in Mexico they still do it that's how Canelo got popped yeah with the clan allegedly yeah on a air quote

allegedly yeah I mean that's how he got Clambuterol anyone thinks Clambuterol came from a steak I got a fucking bridge to sell you in Brooklyn

but you can get it from a steak unfortunately oh yeah there's fighters that say oh no I train in Mexico. Someone recently said, I don't see his name, a fighter said, yeah, I eat it and it's got clen in it.

And they're like, then why didn't you get popped? He's like, because I don't inject it. That was his line. Yeah. Well, without a doubt, there's some shenanigans going on in all combat sports and all professional sports. You get a little edge. That's just the money involved.

Of course. Being able to. Yeah. And Teddy loses his mind with that. Yeah. I mean, rightly so. When someone's that passionate about anything, I mean, the guy is just like, Jesus, man. He's a treasure.

He is. He's an American treasure. Yeah. He is. He is. He was great, man. Yeah. Amazing. His story's about his

dad did you did you hear it did you hear the podcast i watched half of it but i read his book so and you know teddy teddy was a goon man yeah you know what i mean well that's where he got that slice yeah it was hanging his face was hanging off yeah yeah it's crazy yeah but um yeah well the jordan peterson man i mean mean, I'm in awe of that guy. Yeah, he's a really fascinating gentleman. He is. He is. And just scary smart.

Yeah. You know, I would just crumble trying to have a conversation with the guy. You wouldn't, though. I'd feel like a nitwit. You would catch up. That's what happens when you're around. Probably a couple days later, my friend. But the thing about people like that is like if you are around a certain caliber of thinker,

then your vibration sort of matches their vibration. Sure, sure. When you're around people that are way smarter than you, you realize like, oh, there's some shortcuts to thinking that I'm taking. Yes. And then there's some pitfalls in the way I analyze things. And these people don't have those things. And then my vocabulary is stunted. Maybe I should increase my vocabulary.

Maybe I should start reading more and reading the things. With most people, it's the same thing as with fitness. It's the amount of how much time you put in for how long. And that's the same thing with your intellect. It's the same thing with your emotional stability. It's how much energy and effort and focus have you put into it and for how long. Yeah, of course.

But like you said, though, to be around someone like him, you're naturally going to fall into a line of thinking where, wow, this guy's got a lot of shit. His understanding of his calmness, man, it's like, it's just i i can't see that guy being rattled i've watched debates and he's just he's so confident in in what he believes

yeah you know what i'm saying he's thought things through clearly he's not a silly person i think i am so that's the problem there yeah i am too yeah I'm a nitwit so watching him it's it's you know it's um it's humbling to watch someone like him that's got it together and has that level of understanding because I spend a lot of my life trying to get to that level understanding so to watch someone that's there yeah it's like it's just humbling to i i'm just curious where he's gonna go because him being known to you know to is relatively new you know it's not this isn't a guy who's been you know it's a couple years right well he's a what you would call like a public superstar intellectual now you're right that's a new thing it is it really in it really hasn't existed over

the last decade or so no it hasn't been and now they're starting and i think because of youtube and podcasts and things along those lines these guys are getting super popular i mean he's selling out places where fucking iron maiden plays absolutely i mean he's absolutely it's crazy and he talks about philosophy in life yeah and if you told me that a place where Maiden would sell out, someone would go talk to a modern-day philosopher, I wouldn't believe that. You know what I mean? Because it's idiocracy now. You know he only eats meat? That's all he eats?

No. Yeah, he's on this carnivore diet. Really? No vegetables at all. Nothing. Salt and meat and water. Wow. Yeah, he's so wacky with it.

He told me that he had a glass of cider and he couldn't sleep for 24 days. Like, he's not okay. He's eccentric, like in a heavy way. Yeah, he's a heavy guy. Yeah. But. It's a burden. Being that guy is a burden.

And I don't mean that in a negative or derogatory way. I mean, to be that smart and that old. Well, don't you feel historically that they're the people who are the most sad and broken? Because they know too much. There's nothing worse than knowing shit. The dumbest people I know are happy as a fucking clam, man. Right. Simple people.

Sure. And it's obviously his level of intellect is next level. But even being a bright guy or just being a reader or reading Kafka and Salinger or whoever and just becoming aware of certain things, you realize certain times realizations aren't always the greatest things. I used to say that to kids when I was coaching them, when I was coaching martial artists. I would say, you're scared because you're smart.

You see these people around you that aren't scared? They're stupid. Of course. They don't understand the possibilities. You're aware of the dangers and all the variables. You got to put that aside and just concentrate on your technique and your task in hand. But the reason why you're scared is because you're smart. Everything, my life exists around fear. It's not good. It's not

healthy. I'm not healthy mentally because of it. And I don't know how to shake that. But what kind of fear? My father died when I was 10, so I have the, like, my mom's my best friend, you know, and she's 72 now. So, like, just every day is worried about her. Yeah. In every way. It's not even driven by anything that's rational. Right.

It's not like she's sick. She's the best. You know what I mean? She's 72, listens to Jay-Z and wears Jordans. like she's sick. She's the best. You know what I mean? She's 72, listens to Jay-Z and wears Jordans. Does she? Yeah. She's the best.

Did she sing along? Yeah, of course. I'm going to get a video of this. Yeah, no problem. But it's fear of not having her. Fear of the unknown. Bro, really, I fear the unknown.

I fear, what if this all ends? Right. My adult life has been what I do, which is music. Right. Yours has been, too. Bro, I don't know how to do anything. Right. I don't know how to fix a fucking car.

Right, right. I can't be a mechanic. I don't know how to. I literally don't know how to do anything, bro. But that fear is for mechanics, too, because they're like, fuck, what if there's no more cars? What if these electric cars come along? I don't know how to. I literally don't know how to do anything, bro. But that fear is for mechanics, too, because they're like, fuck, what if there's no more cars? What if these electric cars come along? I don't know how to work a computer. Everything's going to be computer controlled.

I mean, people's business. Think about the poor bastard that opened up Blockbuster. He's like, we got this. We got it a lot. We got this forever. Right. He's just spending money like it's growing. And then one day, they're like, oh, we got this new thing.

It's called Apple TV. People are like, fuck got this uh this new thing it's called uh apple tv people like fuck apple tv yeah where's that gonna go michael blockbuster is not living in a box somewhere right yeah probably yeah well he probably sold for smart i probably saw the writing on the wall yeah but i mean there's a lot of things that just go away and people find a way to make do you get through whatever made you a successful rapper, you could be successful at anything. I don't know that I want that. Well, you don't have to,

luckily. I don't want to be a successful mechanic. I know. I don't want to be either. I don't want... The fear of not being able to continue

the way I continue, I know, again, from being a fan, how you do what you want, essentially. Of course, work is work. And even though we love it, it's still work. And I think we both have people in our lives that don't get that. Yes.

They think when we talk when you were in Philly, people hit you up the day of the show. Can you get me two passes back, bud? Like it's a fucking party. Right. It's your job, man. Yeah. It's how you it's it's how you you know what i mean put food on the table and i think there's a disconnect there with people

that don't live in that world that they think everything we do is a party yeah well that sorry it goes back to discipline what we're talking about earlier that you got to love it but you also have to have the discipline to get the work done. Of course. You know? Of course. But I have a problem with people that don't understand that, that there is discipline involved. They think that there's not, that we got lucky. We didn't. Well, we did and we didn't. We did get lucky.

We created our own luck, though. There's a little bit of that, for sure. We're lucky we live in America. We're our own luck, though. There's a little bit of that, for sure. We're lucky we live in America. We're lucky we weren't born in a shack in Ethiopia. Sure. There's luck, but then there's also you have to put in the work, and you have to figure it out. It's a puzzle.

It's this open-ended puzzle. You make it. You turn it into something. But you did it. You did it. You started. You got your shot, and you took it and had the balls to run with that shot. Some people fumble the ball.

There's a lot of fumblers out there. But I fumbled a bunch too. You just get back up and figure out why you fumbled. I fumbled, but I knew that I had to get back up. These people fumble the ball and then go into, woe is me. Into the woe is me. Can't catch a break. The universe is out to get me. I can't catch a break. The universe is out to get me.

I can't catch a break. This doesn't. And that's all. I can't say all, but a lot of it is self-inflicted. Yeah, it is. Well, instead of looking at it that way, what they should look at it. Okay. Now I know how not to do it.

I learned now this is going to make me better. You have to learn. You have to learn from everything that happens. If you're not, it's, you know, my father would say, it's not a mistake if to learn from everything that happens. If you're not, it's, my father would say, it's not a mistake if you learn from it. Yeah. You have to be able to, look, it's adapt or die. Like we're Blockbuster, right?

So adapt or die. Everything's changing with us. You know what I mean? This podcast is bigger than shows on terrestrial radio. If you told me that back when I was listening to Stern, I'd be like, what? What are you even talking about? A podcast, what is a podcast?

How big could that be? And you're bigger than radio personality. Well, I thought that when I did it too, when I first started doing it, I never thought it was going to be a thing. I thought it was just a goof. I was doing it for fun. Right.

Like I would respond to someone on Twitter, like just fuck it, just have some fun yeah and it but you you change culture you've shifted culture and how people communicate with this show i mean you should be very proud of that man if you're not already i don't think about it i think if you think about it you'll you'll trip over your own feet i don't think about it someone can give me the best compliment ever and i'm like i'm a piece of garbage you're better off that way yeah just keep pressing forward joe we don't have a problem there well like you were saying about your fear of it all going away i think that fear is what makes you show up at the studio 10 minutes early that fear is what makes you get out that notebook and start writing yeah that fear is what makes you sit alone thinking about how you're gonna structure

this or you know write your next this. Yeah. It's all important. People think that a guy like you who's a successful rapper or a comedian that's successful, that you just got no worries anymore. That's bullshit. I have more worries now than I've ever had in my life. I have way more worries than when I had nothing in my pocket in high school when I was rapping on street corners. I think about it all

the time. And I look at the worries I had then and they're laughable. I crack up at the shit that used to bother me. You know what's interesting? Could you imagine going back to the first day starting over from scratch, knowing what you know now? How much better

you would be, right? I can't even imagine. But think of that in the future as of now that's a that's heavy yeah that's heavy you know if you look back on yourself like if you're a 60 year old man looking back at yourself you're like vinny you had the world by the balls of course the problem is um i have a problem with living in the moment. I'm always thinking about the ramifications of that moment while the moment is happening. Yeah. And it's detrimental to my mental health to think that way.

You know what I mean? I know. I can't. I see people live in the moment. I see people that just are able to to let things wash over them and i'm envious of that because everything is overanalyzed in every way possible and it eats at me you know yeah but i think that that's one of the reasons why your lyrics are so good it's like as a person a person has that sort of the the this the over analyzing aspect of you is also what makes you

go over all these details and find better hooks and find a better way to phrase things and this is like you can't be complacent you just can't i just wish it could just only exist in that part of my life i don't think it works man everybody that i talked to the successful is the same way they're all a mess. Yeah. What are we going to do about that, man? How do we fix that? There's nothing you can do.

You just got to keep fucking, you just got to not give a fuck and keep pressing forward and know that this is just part of who you are. I mean, if we go back historically, everyone's a loon that was brilliant. Like, look at Lennon. You know, look at all these, you know what I'm saying? They're all crazy. Every comic that's ever lived has been crazy as fuck. I think Stan Hope's one of the most brilliant minds ever.

Bat shit crazy, you know? Oh, yeah, he's a good buddy of mine. Yeah, I know he is. You know, you look at, you know, whether it's Bill Hicks, whether it's Louis, whoever, you know what I mean? Kennison. Yeah, I mean, Sam was the most troubled person in the world. Well, that's my defense of Roseanne. You know, all these people are coming after Roseanne.

I'm like, you don't understand. She's batshit. She's not just batshit. She got in a car accident. She has severe brain damage. Yeah. She's on all sorts of medications. She has multiple personality disorder.

She's drinking. She's on Ambien. And she's 70 years old. What the fuck do you want? Right. What do you want from this lady? You know, and you spoke that way, and so did Norm. You know, Norm talked about Louis and Roseanne, and the same way you.

Like, yo, man, she's batshit crazy, first of all. Like, if you're going to her for, you know, if you're going to her for political discourse, you might want to reevaluate your life. That's the problem's on you. Yeah, that's your fault. Yeah, it's not her. That's your fault at some point. It's you. Yeah, and that doesn't mean either one of us agree with exactly what she wrote.

It's just how she got there. But that's also why she's so funny. You know, if you go back and watch Roseanne in the early days. Bro, that show was fucking heavy, man. It was a great show. And her stand-up, even before that, was fantastic. I put her in the top 20 of all-time She was brilliant. She was brilliant She's also a monster man. Like there was nobody like her before like where she was just his brash. I don't give a fuck Yeah, she was like a man. Yeah kill like like a like like a world-class stand-up sure

I mean, I remember like when that show came on, just seeing that house. I'd never seen a house like that on television before. You know what I mean? Like closer to what we knew than what I had ever seen. My house didn't look like the Cosby's. Right. You know what I mean?

I was like, maybe Archie Bunker, you know, was like a little bit like closer. But it's when people are batshit crazy and someone reacts to that with not confusion, with contempt. I'm like, you understand they're batshit crazy. Right. And it's part of why they got to where they're at. Yeah. Don't don't act surprised now that someone said something loony.

Yeah. This many years after. You know what I mean? It just seems strange to me that now you something loony. Yeah. This many years after, you know what I mean? It just seems strange to me that now you're blown away. She's been saying batshit crazy shit for a long time. I think it's also part of this new culture that we have in where people just, they find a target and they attack. Of course. It's like if you have, if there's any sort of weakness, like if you have chickens and one chicken

gets sick, that's what that pecking order thing is. Sure. One chicken doesn't feel good. The other chickens, they don't like make moral judgments on this chicken. They just find a target. There's something wrong with that chicken. So they start fucking it up. Right.

And this, it happens with dogs. It's an animal thing. It is. up right and this it happens with dogs it has it's a it's an animal thing it is and human beings we have to if we're going to be real if we're going to if we're going to be compassionate we're really going to be compassionate if we're really going to like try to engineer a better culture yeah and a better community we got to stop doing that i agree we got to just stop attacking people like she didn't i believe i talked to her on the phone, just me and her. She did not know that lady was black.

I believe she didn't know that. She goes, she looks Jewish. She looks like me. That's what she said. I believe you. I believe her, too. I think she was just cracking a joke, fucked up on Ambien, been drinking and smoking weed all night. Sure.

But no one cares what her intent was. All they care is, I got a green light. That's a target. Sure. We're going to go in. Well, here's my issue with the modern. The modern left is they talk compassion, but they pounce. I feel like a man with no country now.

Me too. Because the modern left isn't something that i gravitate towards and neither is the right and when i was growing up and listening to public enemy you know and that left of it changed it changed and i didn't yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have these people. I don't know where I stand anymore, man. Well, I think there's rational left-leaning people that are against discrimination and for welfare. Look, I was on welfare when I was a kid.

If people say I shouldn't be on welfare, well, what the fuck, man? My parents were on welfare. No, I came from a poor family we had food stamps yeah and eventually they did better and we got off of it sure but if you want to tell me that that doesn't help that fed me absolutely so how could i ever go against that when that was a part of my childhood absolutely like this there's all these things that people want to associate with being, you know, like with left or right. I think there's just a gigantic problem with people being tribal. That's what it is. It's tribalism at its highest degree, which since I've been alive, I haven't seen.

Never seen it like this before. I think we know why. Well, it's facilitated not just by Trump, but it's also by the ability to communicate instantaneously. Of course. Without any consideration. And you can just tweet something or make a YouTube video about something instantaneously. Sure. Roseanne's ability to tweet that.

Yeah. That quickly with the phone is why. Song Kerr show costs millions of dollars. Yeah. People lost their jobs. ABC, you know. Yeah. Now they're going to do the Connors. Guess what? what that show's gonna fucking sink like the titanic of course it's gonna roseanne

get the fuck out of here it's roseanne without roseanne right three episodes yeah that's like flavor-free diet coke tastes like water just have water motherfucker Half water, motherfucker. It's Diet Coke, but without the flavor. It's true. What? It's true. And I don't, it's just, it's the hypersensitivity and it's like the ability for anyone, right or wrong, to be able to say something right then. Right. Where you would have, you know, if you're doing Fear Factor and Rolling Stone interviews you, there's a thought process there.

And there's editing and you're sitting there and you're talking with a journalist. All of that's gone, man. It's like it. That's what it's come down to. You know, we have all three of us have phones in our pockets. We can say something crazy right now if we stubbed our toe. Right. It's not.

Fuck this. And all of a sudden toe. Right. It's not. Fuck this. And all of a sudden you're done. You're sunk. Well, there's good in that because the tyranny of these gigantic organizations, like if they were tyrannical, if they did have an agenda, if they were trying to smear you, you were fucked. You had no recourse. Right. And they did that to many people, I'm sure. There's unscrupulous journalists.

Sure. But also journalistic integrity takes a backseat too because now they have to get clicks. Like, these people are, real journalists are fighting for their lives. Absolutely.

Because these publications are going under. Well, real journalism is almost dead. It's not totally dead, but real. It's bad.

It's hurting. It's got emphysema. Like, the Alex Jones thing, right? Whether I agree with shit he says or not, corporations shut him down.

And to me, that's scary. That the corporations can decide what we are able to hear, really. Well, I was having a good conversation about this last night with some friends. And they were talking about whether or not things like YouTube or Twitter or Instagram should be regulated like utilities. Okay. Where anybody can use it. Okay. You know, like you have the right to get the power.

Like if you have a house, you have the right to pay your money, you get your power turned on. It's a utility. Yes. Maybe a channel like that, whether it's YouTube or whether it's Twitter, maybe a channel should be treated like a utility. But then the question is like, what is it exactly that is good enough to get you kicked off? Because I've seen some horrible shit that people have read or written, rather, on Twitter

and they're still on. I've seen shit, whatever he's being, whatever, you know, is why he was brought down. I've seen people say much worse shit. The big thing was the Sandy Hook. Right. And it was that the Sandy Hook thing was he said that he thought that it was fake. He's since disavowed that. Yeah.

But they don't care if you disavow things. No, of course not. It's like they have this thing on you now. You said that the kids didn't die. They definitely did. Of course. It's like they have this thing on you now. You said that the kids didn't die. They definitely did. Of course. Let's get rid of you. But are you saying that people aren't allowed to make mistakes?

Are you saying that people aren't allowed to evolve their thinking? Are you saying that people aren't allowed to say things that are wrong? Because a lot of people say things that are wrong. But is it only things that are wrong about children? Like, what standards? Where's the line? I don't know where lines are anymore. And I don't know who's the one drawing them.

Well, it's these people that either are the CEOs or the stockholders or the CFOs, whoever it is that is in the meeting that's dictating these standards. They're deciding. These are gigantic corporations. We were just talking about this. I don't think they ever anticipated this. I think when they made Twitter, they thought it would be, like Jamie was saying, it was a fun way to tell your friends, Vinnie Paz and Joe Rogan are going to the movies. Sure. And that's what you would do.

Of course. That's what Twitter was. Of course. It was just like, I'm eating pizza at the mall. Yeah. It wasn't anything crazy. Right. And then people started using it as a platform for, I don't know why.

Well, Sam Harris has been tweeting to Jack. He's been trying to get Jack to ban Trump. He's like, look, he's clearly violating your standards of practice. Wow, that's great. He's clearly doing that. And he's like, Jack just won't respond to him anymore. Wow. Jack's going radio silent.

Yeah, he's like, fuck this. I don't need to deal with this in my life. I mean, you don't want to do that right now. Maybe when he gets impeached, then you ban him. Yo, if you read that guy's Twitter, the fact that he's the leader of the free world. It's crazy. It's batshit crazy. He calls people losers.

Yes. Leader of the free world. Calls people losers. Losers. He's threatening nuclear war. I love, my favorite is very sad with the exclamation point. Yes. All caps.

Yes. That's like my, that's my favorite thing. If we get through this without getting blown up, we're going to look back and laugh at the Trump days. They're going to be fun. I don't know how long we're into his presidency, but when I walk by the TV and hear someone say President Trump, I still have a little chuckle.

I know. You know? It might not be a hearty laugh. It might not be a belly laugh, but I still crack up. Well, it's been two years. Yeah. Because this is how I know. I know by Netflix specials.

Because my last Netflix special was exactly two years ago. And during that special, I was like, we are that close to President Trump. And people are laughing like, ha, ha, ha. I was laughing. I was like, I went to bed or whatever, whatever, knowing that there was zero chance. Yeah. You know, and I didn't think Hillary was a great candidate, but I thought a fucking,

I thought a cardboard box would beat him. Yeah. I thought people would think of him as more of a liability than anything. But the thing is, these people in america just don't feel represented they feel disrespected yes and not represented and he figured that out and tapped into that he did well i saw jordan peterson say something in this interview and uh it made me think because obviously we're joking right now and the joke about him is how dumb he is and jordan peterson said the bit the reason he's in and the biggest mistake americans have made is underestimating him and thinking he's dumb yeah you know what i mean he's not dumb he just does dumb shit yes

and he's definitely an egomaniac well i think he has narcissistic personality disorder and that's but that doesn't mean you're stupid right you know what i mean but he um he took advantage of exactly what you said there's a big portion of this country you've been there i've been there there's where you're an east coast guy i'm an east coast guy now we're both on the west coast we because of what we do these are the worlds we know and what we're surrounded by. My father used to say, if you don't live near a coast, you're a retard. Now more than half the country hates me. I don't believe that, but my father said that.

But anyway, when you go through the middle of the country on tour and you meet people, I've been like, yo, I've never met anyone like this before. Not in a good way or a bad way. I just. You're not around them. I'm not around them. And they probably feel like no one has ever spoken for me.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. And even if a dimwit does, that's better than no one speaking for me. Right. That's better than someone just calling them flyover states and disrespecting them. Sure. Of course. Of course. And when I was younger, I did it too. I talked for me. Right. That's better than someone just calling them flyover states and disrespecting them. Sure. Of course.

Of course. And when I was younger, I did it too. I talked that way. Yeah. You know, when tours would get booked, oh, I don't want to go there. But it's just youth. It's just, it's ego of being where you're from, from the East Coast. Well, obviously, everyone on the East Coast is very proud of that fact.

Everyone in the West is very proud of that fact. You know, I don't know anything about Arkansas pride. It's just naivete. I just don't know anyone there, bro. There's no fucking Italians there. I don't know. That's what I am. I'm a WAP. My family's from Italy.

It's just naivete and it's being an ignorant American. I spent a lot of time like that until I saw the world, not the country, the world. And being on different continents, it changes your thinking, man. The thing you were talking about with diet and discipline, these people run, walk everywhere, run everywhere, ride bikes everywhere. McDonald's is eaten like once a year. It's a crazy night out.

My son lives overseas. He's had McDonald's like three times in his life. Little kids here, it's like every day, Mommy, Chicken McNuggets. You see cultural shifts and why there's no um like i've talked to people over there who didn't know what autism was they never heard of it legitimately like what is that and i had to explain it and that shit got me thinking too it's like okay why why is that why is that not happening there? What could be the reason?

Artism? Artism. Autism. Yes. Autism. Yes. Oh, the disease. Yes.

Okay, I thought you were saying artism. Oh, I'm sorry. I was like, what is that? I don't know what it is either. No. You're looking at me like I— I was trying to figure out if you meant artisan, like handcrafted. Yes, yes, yes.

Autism. Autism. Yeah, it's that accent, bro. Sorry, my friend. That Philly accent. Sorry, buddy. No, but. Yeah, well, it's more common, I think, now than ever before.

But the question is whether it's more common because it's more diagnosed or whether it's more common because there's more incidence of it. Yeah. There's a lot of questions as to why. One of the big ones is apparently older people having kids. People waiting and putting off the children. Uh-huh. And particularly men. Apparently there's a big risk for older men.

Older men a lot of times have autistic kids. I have more than a couple friends with autistic children. Me too. And I just, like, do you remember when we were young? I think, like, the first time I even was aware was probably the movie Rain Man. I'm not even being funny about it. No, me too.

100%, first time I was aware. Did it exist and wasn't diagnosed? Well, they wrote a movie about it. I don't think they made it up for the movie. It's like the disease came along and popped into the movie. Right, right. But what happened? What happened? Is it chemical?

Is it people that were on drugs? Is it things? Or was it undiagnosed? I think there's a bunch of factors. I think undiagnosed is one of them. I think also the ability to exchange information now allows you to be aware of it much quicker. Because of the internet, because people text and tweet and do these things on phones. Now you hear conversations about autism and all these different things you don't hear about before.

And then I think it's entirely possible that. Well, first of all, there's definitely more people than ever before. Yeah. So because of more people, you're going to have more incidences of all sorts of diseases, cancer, whatever. And the question is, is it more per capita or is it more period because there's more people? I don't know the answer. Sure.

Well, what you said about more knowledge and information being able to be shared, I have a dissociative disorder. It's called depersonalization disorder. What does that do? So basically I'll be sitting here talking to you and I'll just, my mind, body, and soul will remove itself from my body. I'll feel like I'm floating down over my body. I'll look at my hands and they won't feel like mine.

Do you smoke weed? No. That's the problem. No. It'll trigger it. Will it? Yes. Right now, if we got high, you would float above yourself?

I would fucking take that deer head and put it through my ear. I would lose my shit. Really? And I'm envious. I'm envious of how weed has helped so many people and that it can't help me. What does it do to you? It makes me,

I smoked when I was young and what happened was something triggers DPD in people. It's, you know, it could be a traumatic event. It could be PTSD. You know what I'm saying? Gun to my head, I would say it was my father dying, but it didn't happen right away. Because he died when I

was 10, and this started when I was 14. I smoked a blunt of dust. Yeah. And lost my shit. And for about 18 months, no lie, I thought I was in purgatory. Whoa. How old were you, 14?

14. I was like, I'm definitely not in hell. I'm definitely not in heaven, whatever those might be. Wow. Yo, man. And this is, so this is back then. There is no Twitter in it. I didn't even know what it was.

I went to a doctor, told him what happened. He was like, oh, it was what you smoked. You know, don't do that again. And it never left. And then I get these episodes. I'll be in the shower on tour in the Czech Republic, washing my hair, closing my eyes, and I'll open them and not know where I'm at.

No clue where I'm at. And I'll feel like I'm floating outside of my body. You know when you would hear the stories of people dying in an out-of-body experience? That's literally my disorder. I had an out-of-body experience once when I took salvia. I was over here, like floating above my, pulsating. Were you scared? Floating above myself.

No, I was tripping balls. Yes, I think it's it. I'm doing the Fred G. Sanford, Elizabeth. I'm coming to see her. When you hear those drug stories where a guy gets fucked up for like a year, those scared the shit out of me. Well, it happened. Mark Maron was telling us about that.

He did coke with Sam Kinison for like a couple of days. They didn't sleep. And he was fucked up for a year. For a whole year, he heard voices. I would trade being fucked up for a year to do coke with sam kinnison no but it was like it was like 18 months of my life and yo how do you tell your italian mother that no you can't you gotta keep your mouth shut when you come from that culture man like my family that like old school italians they don't believe mental you have to see it right

they believe in cancer because they see it destroy your body. Right. If you say, I'm bipolar, I'm depressed. You know what I'm saying? Right. Like, I'm diagnosed depressed. I'm diagnosed DPD. I take medication for it.

That still isn't enough for these people. Right. It's to shake it off. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. If my father was alive, he'd probably throw me up the flight of stairs for that. That's what Joey Diaz calls immigrant mentality.

Immigrant mentality is real. And I'm going to steal that. Because they want no fun. Again, if it's not tangible, they don't believe in it. If I broke my leg, that woman would do everything for me. If I'm in the middle of a fucking breakdown, she's like, you want gravy and meatballs? I'm like, ma, I'm losing my shit. I need to be hospitalized.

Right. Can't process it, Ben. The best woman. I love no one in the world more than my mother. And no one has been more supportive of me. And that's rare, too too with the immigrant mentality. You think I'd get to get a job, go to college. And she was like, baby, you do you.

Like, if that's what you want, do it. That's amazing. Do it, but you better do it. Right. Don't do it half-assed and don't bullshit. You know, this drinking 40s and smoking blunts rap shit looks good in the video, but you got to work. Right.

You know what I mean? And it's the work ethic, you know, like Joey said, the immigrant mentality, but it helps you in other places because when you have relatives that didn't have shit and, you know, they're dressed in potato sacks, you go, yo, I can't let my father down. He's not with us anymore, but I can't let him down because I carry his name. I don't want to embarrass him. I don't want to embarrass my mother. I want her to be proud. And that drives everything, man. I'm getting choked up talking about it because it's like,

I do everything for her and my son. And when you're driven by that, it doesn't have to be your mom or your sister. When you're driven by something that you care about, it changes everything, man. We have people in our industries, in the entertainment industry, that just have this fucking sense of entitlement, man. It's plagued.

I know you know comics with a fucking sense of entitlement, man. It's plagued. I know you know comics with a fucking sense of entitlement. When they're rude, when you go backstage, I know from how you are that you shake everyone's hands, say, how you doing? Thank you when they bring you something. Please, thank you. Sure. Yo, people don't do that, man. I know.

You know what drives me crazy? When they don't do that to waiters. Waiters and waitresses. They don't say thank you and they don't tip or they don't do that man i know you know what drives me crazy when they don't do that to waiters waiters and waitresses they don't say thank you and they don't tip or they don't tip well i last night the bill was uh 1 30 in the bar and i gave them 2 30 and the guy like chased me and to stop yeah i'm you know they made a mistake he did he said did you he was like yo yo yo yo did you mean to do this you took care of me all night, man. And I know that people are shitting on you and leaving a dollar or maybe not even that. And same with waitresses, man. No one gets shit on more than them.

What do they get, like $2 an hour or something? And you know when you really appreciate them? When you go overseas and they don't get tips. Yes. Because those people barely pay attention to you. Those motherfuckers don't care. You'll sit in Amsterdam. They won't even come over to give you your soda for an hour. And in Italy,

we were eating at some nice restaurants and the service was terrible. Awful. Awful. Because they don't give a fuck. They don't give a fuck. They pay the exact same amount. Why would they act any different than someone at Burger King? You know what the lady said to me at the restaurant? She goes, we don't include

a tip, but if you want, you can leave one. And I said, listen, baby, I'm going to leave you one. That's right. Take care of us. She goes, okay. So we had like a little American exchange there. There you go. Don't worry about it, baby.

I got you. If you set it up, if there's a preamble, then it works. Yeah. That's what you got to do. Like when they're sitting you down, you say, listen, I'm from America. We tip in America. Set the precedent. We tip.

I tip big. Right. Okay. Let's make this wonderful. You're setting the Rogan precedent I'm taking care of you yeah so take care of us

yeah yeah man but that it's just you know when a kid brings in a case of water I'm like hey man

thank you I've had those kids say to me yo I've been doing this 15 years no one's ever addressed me

right and I'm like that's awful hey and I'm sorry for that but it's not gonna be for me a kid that brings the towels for the stage hey thank you thank you so much for having us i appreciate you i hope we did good i hope uh i hope the bar did well because my fans are degenerates i hope i hope this went well you know yeah and i think um i think that goes a long way, bro, in life.

You know? I don't want to get into like a karma discussion, but I think whether it's a comic or rapper, a metal band, if you treat people like shit for a long time, that gets around, bro. Like, comic promoters know each other. Yeah. Music promoters know each other. They'll fucking call it. Yo, this guy's a fucking dickface, man.

I get those stories. You know, like I was talking to a promoter the other day, and he was telling me about some guy who's an asshole and is like yelling at the sound guy, the sound check, and yelling at the promoter. Made them fly to New York for some thing because the sound wasn't right or he wasn't happy with something. And, you know, they have to accommodate this guy. But they're shaking their head, and then every chance they get, they're going to tell everybody else of course what a prima donna

he is and i don't and if he's popular right now when he starts to wane those motherfuckers will remember that yeah now when dudes like me and you if we start to wane we'll still get love yeah because of the way we treated people and that's reciprocated like yo maybe he did 5,000 people last time this time you know I'm talking 20 years down the line or something yeah and then you only do half they're still gonna have you because of the way you behave the way you were raised well it's also you got an opportunity when you're interacting with people like if you're working with someone and you guys are doing something together you got an opportunity to just put smiles on face

yes and they they put smiles on other people's faces. Because of that, everybody's smiling. Then you got a nice little community. Trickle-down effect, man. Yeah, it's a nice community. It takes more energy to be an asshole. It does for me because I can be an asshole. And when I am, I feel drained.

Yeah. It drains the shit out of me. I don't feel good about it. I just have a temper. I have a wop temper. But I try to curb it. And I realize when I treat people the way

that they deserve to be treated, everything changes. The energy in the room changes. They might bring you I don't know if you drink or smoke before you perform. Both. So if on your rider is two bottles of Grey Goose, you might look over and there might be four.

Just because you're a sweetheart, not because you asked for it. It's just little shit. I'm not even saying it's a big deal and it's life changing. There's just little shit that people will, you know, it makes their day. Just by us being polite. Instead of the guy that they had the last night there was a ball breaker and saying the the sound man the the first off the guy that don't you don't ever fuck with a sound man as a performer that motherfucker will get you that motherfucker's got a ponytail

he fucking listens he smokes weed the allman brothers he's been around the block yeah and people don't realize that shit. That motherfucker is 60. He fucking listened to the MC5. Yep. He fucking did sound for everybody you and I probably worship. Yeah. He is not impressed. He's probably impressed by you.

He's definitely not impressed by me, a rapper from Philly. He don't give a fuck. He don't want to be doing my sound. Right. So the last thing I need to do is be like, yo, Schmohawk, turn this up. This is done. You know? But there's a mentality that a lot of people adopt that when they become successful, they want to be a prick. They want to let everybody know.

They want to be that guy who yells and wrecks hotel rooms. Yes. You know that kind of shit? Oh, I do. But I can't. I don't understand it. Yeah. You know.

I understand it. Do you? It's a weakness. And it's just, they waited for so long to make it. Now they finally make it. They want everybody to suck their dick. But do you think that things like that can be controlled by upbringing? Yeah, they can be, but it's also.

Like my mom, I hear, all right, so I'm ready to smash something in a hotel. I hear my mom. If you do that to those people, that maid is going to have to spend all day. You know what I mean? She tells me when I'm cranky about a show or I'm leaving for a tour and there's no sleep, she says, you talk to every one of those kids, you sign every autograph, and you take every picture. I'm going upside your head with a wooden spoon. And the wooden spoon still has the crack from my head from back then.

And it's still the one she stirs the gravy with, but it's still cracked. But she said, you are here for a reason. And these people look up to you and these people respect you. And you do your best to not just continue that, but to have them think you're a better person than they already do. Because that's going to trickle down. And then maybe they'll treat people better. You said it.

All this energy travels, man. It does. You know, if someone was in here right now, all three of us would get miserable real quick. If someone was in here, bitch. Everyone's out to get me. It's everyone's fault, man, except theirs. You know that type of motherfucker? It's never their fault.

Every fucking decision they made is self-inflicted, but they can't self-examine and say, maybe it's me. How about just give me a maybe, motherfucker? Some of these people I know, that's not even in their head. It's all of us. It's you. It's me. You you didn't give them a break you didn't let them on this show motherfucker maybe it's you yeah maybe your energy it's also our responsibility to cast those people aside agreed as a lesson agreed and that's what tribes would do but when you're talking about a lesson i think when you're too deep into it you're not learning i think when you hit a certain age and you're still like that right i think you're done man some people yeah i just when you're too deep into it, you're not learning. I think when you hit a certain age and you're still like that, I think you're done, man.

Some people, yeah. I just think you're done. I know that's a negative way, and we're talking about not being negative, but sometimes just reality is reality. Well, if you're being pragmatic and you want to talk about good use of your time, yeah, you're not going to fix a 45-year-old guy who complains every day. And that's what I'm talking about. A 25-year-old kid might be going through some shit. It could be a breakup, a loss of a parent. Bad pattern that they're in.

Yeah, of course. Some bad mental pattern. And you have to break patterns. And if you don't break them, you end up being that 45-year-old guy. I was a shitty friend to people, man. I've always been loved. And, like, in my 20s and shit, I was just selfish. Like, nothing crazy.

I never did anything, like, horrible to someone. But just I thought about myself first and i was probably like not maybe the like best friend of some of these people and they're still in my life and i had to make a conscious effort to to evolve to evolve and break patterns man breaking patterns is hard as fuck it's hard as fuck but that's part of growth you? And that's one of the reasons why it's important to be around people that are also doing the same kind of thing. You feed off of each other.

Yes, yes. And when you're around people that are just real negative, that feeds off of it too. Of course. You want to be negative as well. Yeah, and you don't feel the need to break that cycle

because you're around motherfuckers that are thinking like that too. So it becomes this pity party where you're all, it's a circle jerk of misery you know what i'm saying and and the circle jerk of misery it's just it's it's never ending man don't you think that one of the things that really expands your understanding of people and life is just being in a bunch of different places and understanding that where you grew up is just one part of the world yes the world yes the

world is this massive place like i just got back from thailand i was in thailand this summer i've never been around so many friendly people right friendly nice smiling people that i think they call it the land of the smile or land of a thousand smiles or some show it's beautiful but that's what it's like when you're over there people are just so friendly and i was like wow okay if you grew up here something about whatever momentum that these people have developed in their culture their culture is like smiley and friendly to each other yes this is uh this is just the the vibe the way they do it but if you around some real aggro super shitty insulting aggressive culture then that would be what you had to adapt to bro Philly was voted the most hostile city in America

by Time Magazine. Oh, it's up there. So... You know, I was always... Philly loves you, though. Recently, when I said... This is how I described Philly. I said,

there are very smart people who will punch you. Yeah. That's a good description of me. Yeah, that's... Not the very smart. Not the very smart. Media of average intelligence that will punch you. Yeah. That's a good description of me. Yeah. Not the very smart. Not the very smart. Media of average intelligence that will punch you. But Philly's a sophisticated city.

It's a real city, but they're all, they're hard people. Goons, man. Yeah, there are hard people there. Look, man, we threw snowballs at Santa Claus. Yeah. Michael Irvin broke his leg and we cheered. Well, the famous Bill Burr rant. Yes. When they booed Dom Herrera. Yeah. Michael Irvin broke his leg and we cheered. Well, the famous Bill Burr rant. Yes.

When they booed Dom Herrera. Yes. And then Bill Burr went on Torch in Philly for 10 minutes. Yes. Yes. And I love Dom. I love Dom. Me and Dom eat at the same restaurant.

I'm working with Dom tonight. Are you? At the Ice House. Big Petey, Little Petey, and Re-Petey. Yeah. Dom's great, man. He's the best. We eat at a place called Poppy's in South Philly and I see him all the time.

He's a sweetheart. He's a great guy. Great guy man legend yeah um i just saw him on the uh the bruce willis roast and he murdered on that yeah murdered but he's great guy i uh but um i've been friends with don for like 25 years have you yeah wow you know he's a philly guy, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But yeah, there's also a level of guilt, though, in cutting some of these people off that you were talking about. That's kind of hard for me. Yeah. Because loyalty is a big thing, too, when you're talking about all these- You've got to tell them.

They don't listen. Then you've got to tell them again. If they don't listen, then you've got to cut them off, and then you go, look, I told you. That's what's happening now, but still it's it eats at me i feel bad like i should be like uh it's a savior complex you know what i'm saying i know that i i don't want anyone to be fucked up man and i have a hard time being like yo this person is detrimental and my energy is fucked up with them being in my life. But when it's time to cut them off, I still feel like, am I being a shitty person by doing that? Yeah, well, that's what they want you to think.

Because they don't take care of themselves. You got to take care of yourself before I take care of you. I mean, you got to at least want to. I'll help you if you want to. But if you're not taking care of yourself and you want me to do it for you hey hey you got to get your own shit together first yeah at least get make an attempt you can't just ask everybody to carry your bags like come on they want you to carry their emotional bags exactly all the time and and again like i said there's no there's no introspection there's no well maybe this many years and all of this shit happened to me.

Maybe it's me and I'm a dickhead. When you can't see that, I feel like, I don't know, man. Calling people lost causes seems very dark and grim, but I think they exist. Well, I think you probably have this attitude because your dad died when you were young and you were left alone. Yeah. And I have a lot of that because my father and my mother split up when I was real young and I haven't seen my dad since I was seven. So it's the same sort of thing.

You feel abandoned. Of course. And so you don't want to leave anybody behind. So I always rescued stray dogs and feral cats and took in crazy friends. And my whole life has been like that, taking in the misfits. And your father made that decision and that weighs onfits. And your father made that decision, and that weighs on you. And my father made the decision to die. He had bypass surgeries.

They told him, stop smoking. Stop doing this. Stop doing that. He had my older brother bring cigarettes to the hospital. He drug the IV down to the bathroom and was smoking out of the window. He had a young son and made a choice not to live for him. My other brothers are 11 and 12 years older.

So they got him for, they were 21 and 22. You know what I mean? Like, bro, I can't remember his voice. You know what I mean? And that shit weighs heavy because it's like, did he not love me enough to live for me?

You know, and those things manifest themselves in different ways as you get older that you don't even know. You know what's crazy? It's a gift in some ways. It's a gift and a curse. Yeah. The gift is that you have this energy that comes from this lack, this lack of something in your life when you're young. Yeah. You know?

I mean, this is something I struggle with with my kids because I try to give my kids everything. Always give them love. Always give them love. Yeah, hug, kiss all the time. Make sure they know. We were talking about this yesterday. All my friends that are interesting

came from fucked up childhoods. All my favorite friends. Right. All my favorite friends, their life was chaos when they were growing up and they became these really interesting people.

I hate that that's what created us. But you're right. I mean, you couldn't be more right. I mean, that's what created us. But you're right. I mean, you couldn't be more right. I mean, you're talking about your favorite friends that are in there. I mean, my favorite everything. Everything. Artists.

Painters, musicians, rock bands, punk, metal. All of them were fucked in there. I don't know any well-balanced people that I feel like, oh, that guy's a brilliant mind. He came from a two-parent home in the suburbs of Connecticut. I don't know anyone like that. Pressure creates diamonds. Yeah, man. It busts pipes, too.

It does bust pipes. But the thing, yeah, but, you know, I wonder, like, how much of that stuff haunts me and creates, you know, like, you know, your parents splitting and being seven. Like, how many of the fucked up things that go on in your head now relate back to that? And you're not even aware because the mind is so complicated. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of it.

You know, when I started realizing it when I was smoking weed, I didn't really start smoking weed seriously until I was 30. Okay. And then when I started doing it, then I started thinking about all sorts of different patterns of my behavior and why I was angry all the time. And I think a lot of it came from this resentment of being abandoned when I was young. Well, some of your early stuff was fucking super dark. I mean, I think you're a brilliant comic, so I love all your stuff. Thank you. But some of that earlier stuff, man.

Yeah, well. It was pretty fucking dark places. Young and angry. It was also, I was, that was also like just a few years after I was done fighting, like I was a different person. I just, I had a different mindset and that's a very strange transition between, um, competition and then standup comedy. It's just a very different kind of mindset. I carried a little bit too much combat with me. Yeah. Well, you were still fighting. You were still fighting.

And sometimes when you don't know what you're fighting, it's worse. It's worse because you start internalizing it and you don't know what the, it's war with self. And the war with self, because you don't, you want to, this energy needs to be channeled. And how can it be? And you went batshit on the mic and went really dark with it. And I've done that too. But for us to be channeled and how can it be and you went bad shit on the mic and went really dark

with it and i've done that too but for us to be healthy here's the other question though if we were to get healthy will we just suck yeah well i used to worry about that when i was young i used to worry about being my idea was that if i became somehow you know air quote enlightened right that i wouldn't be funny anymore right because all the funny people I knew were fucked up. Of course. I thought that I needed to be a drug addict. I'm like, damn, Kinison was a drug addict. Pryor was a drug addict.

Maybe I need to be a drug addict. I got it. You look at these people. I mean, historically, look at Hendrix. Yeah. You know what I mean? Look at, look at Bukowski. Janis Joplin.

Yeah. Yes. Bukowski. Yeah. Bukowski's a fucking mess. The town drunk. Yeah. And one of the best. Yeah. I thought and think the same way. I'm like, I might fucking mess. The town drunk. Yeah. And one of the best.

I thought and think the same way. I'm like, I might need to pick up a habit. Yeah. Do you drink? Yeah. Just a little bit or a lot? I shouldn't. I drank a lot and had an epiphany.

I woke up one day and cold turkey'd it. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I drank a lot for a lot of years. And now you don't drink at all or just drink a little? No, no. It's like, gosh. A little bit. Yeah, you know, a little bit. lot of years. And now you don't drink at all or just drink a little? It's like, gosh.

A little bit. You know, a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. But it's more like when I perform. Right. You know what I mean? Just loosen up.

Yeah, but I was drinking two bottles of Grey Goose alone every night. Oh. Yeah. Alone. Dola. Oh. Every night. Seven days a week.

That's a lot. Two bottles to the head. That's Bert Kreischer. Love Bert. Love the Bert. Seven days a week. That's a lot. Two bottles to the head. That's Bert Kreischer. Love Bert. Love the Bert. I know the Bert. He's got a bottle on his hip. What? When he's listening to this. What? Love the Bert. Yeah. You guys are

close, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing Sober October. We're trying to figure out the bet. Who cracks first? We're trying to figure out what to do. Tom Segura's got some great idea. Instead of yoga classes, there's some application that you, let me find out. Are you in on this bet? I want money on this.

Yeah. Christ is going to crack. You're not going to be able to do the pot? No, I took the last Sober October off. The whole month? Yeah, I took the whole month off. No pot? No, no pot.

You don't believe me? How dare you? Wow, listen. You're looking at me, I took the whole month off. No pot? No, no pot. You don't believe me? How dare you? Wow, listen. You're looking at me. I am looking at you crazy. Let me find the order here. Joseph, I don't believe that. You were sneaking the pot.

No, I wasn't. What does he say in Family Guy? I didn't believe it either. Ari wanted to get me tested. We went to a yoga class. Ari's like, we're going to do this. Oh, if I put money on it, if I put money, I'm getting blood work. Ari's like, we're going to go to CVS.

We're going to take a drug test. He said he's still going to do mushrooms when he's camping or some shit. Oh, that's put money on it, if I put money, I'm getting blood work. Ari's like, we're going to go to CVS. We're going to take a drug test. He said he's still going to do mushrooms when he's camping or some shit. Oh, that's okay. That's all right. I'll let that slide. So this is what the fuck this thing is. It is a, it's some sort of a heart rate application. What is it called?

My zone, some my zone. It's a, you wear this thing around your chest and it registers on an app. Okay. And it gives you points for and it registers on an app. Okay. And it gives you points for the amount of work you do. Okay. And Tom suggested that we try to achieve some ridiculous amount of points for the month. All right. So it's like 40,000 points or some shit.

This is it? You got it? I forget what the number that Tom said, we're gonna have to agree on this number and what it would basically mean is you got to work out almost an hour and a half every single fucking day of the month or no off days no off days oh you're in good shape you can do that yeah i'll uh i'll be all right i'll figure out different shit to do. So I'll run hills, I'll kick box, I'll do a little jiu-jitsu. If I get in on it, you guys can bet on how long before I die. Well, you work out, right?

I know you do a little boxing. Well, here's the thing. I did and was in good shape as a kid. Then when I got rap money, I did the dumb thing and turned into a fat pig. So the past maybe years, you know, a couple years, maybe 18 months, I'm back boxing again.

So, you're just regular, hitting the bag, skipping rope. Hitting the bag, cardio, skipping rope. I know you're a giant

boxing fan. Yeah, like, obsessive. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I know you are.

Yeah. I know you are. Yeah, I liked your post on Canelo Alvarez and Triple G too. The casual boxing fans are the worst. I mean, I don't think that.

It's really like child molesters. They're the worst. Pedophiles are the worst. And then casual boxing fans. Yeah, it's the same with MMA fans. Oh, I'm sure. Well, those kids hate me. They just yell at me that I should.

When I post something about boxing, watch MMA, faggot. I'm like, Jesus, man. Yo, man. You know, it's a little aggro towards me. Yeah, how come you could be a soccer fan but you can't be a boxing fan? I don't know, man. How come you could be a basketball fan, can't be a boxing fan?

I don't know. The hostility is there, man. Well, it's a stupid conflict between MMA and boxing. I think it's stupid. It's a deal to a lot of people. You know what I mean? It's so stupid because so many MMA fighters have learned from boxers. Absolutely.

You know, Mack Danzig. Sure, yeah. Mack's a friend of mine, and he's a huge boxing fan and would train a wild card. He's one of the rare—Mac Danzig was one of the rare vegans that competed successfully for a long period of time in MMA. One of the rare ones. Yeah. But he's a smart guy. Very bright guy.

Yeah, really watched his diet correctly and made sure he got the proper foods and fatty acids and all the different things. Yeah, I couldn't do it. Yeah, well, I mean, for him, in his mind, it was an ethical choice. I know there's a lot of other ones that are vegetarians that do really well, like Jake Shields, he's a vegetarian, but he eats eggs. And milk and cheese and things along those lines. But you hunt your own stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you enjoy that? I do, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. hunt your own stuff yeah yeah do you enjoy that i do yeah yeah yeah um but how did you like how do you learn that process of what you do after the animal like yeah i i got lucky that i learned from people that know what they're doing yeah steve ranella is a good friend of mine took me for the first time on a television show okay so the first time i ever hunted was on tv which is kind of

yeah nerve-wracking you don't want to fuck up and wound an animal on television. But what it is to me, it's like I saw so many PETA videos. I saw so many of those factory farming videos. I don't want to be a part of this. Me too. So I was either going to be a vegetarian, which I tried to be when I was fighting. I was trying to stay at a lower weight class and and I was a vegetarian for a while, and I felt like shit.

And then, I probably was doing it wrong. If you're ready to scream at your keyboard right now. Oh, no, that's what they're doing right now. Vegan plant power, plant-based power. Yeah, you're going to get bombarded. But when I started eating meat again, I went up a weight class, and I became much better. Yeah. My body just reacts better with meat. Me too. Yeah too i like i tried it too you know what i mean

um i just found that you know um making smart decisions forget vegan vegetarian or meat diet just making smart decisions right dietary dietary decisionsary decisions. Dietary decisions. You know what I mean? It was all the difference in the world for me. And as someone who works out as much as you do, you feel better. You just do. It's not a lie. No one's lying to you about it. You just feel better when you work out. Well, the thing about the fighters and people that are in competition, though,

it's like there's more at stake because it's not just about feeling better. It's like you have you have an obligation to your brain to your body and to your future to perform at your best in your life yeah because that's not a game you don't play mma you don't play boxing right it's true that you can die and people have yeah people have if you're cutting weight the wrong way right you know what i mean if you because there's tons of wrong ways to do shit. You know, we know diuretics, all of that. And you come in, you know, malnourished and someone hits like a fucking mule, man.

You know, that's no joke. It's no joke. I mean, if anybody thinks you play boxing, watch Canelo Alvarez versus, you know, anybody where he like watch, watch watch any real vicious knockout where someone's getting their head bounced off the canvas. He took James Kirkland's soul out of his body. How about Amir Khan?

When he cracked Amir Khan with that right hand. Boom! I mean, we go back to the 80s and Julian Jackson would just separate people from their... Dude. Julian Jackson was a murderous puncher. He's the hardest puncher I ever saw in my life. Here's Amir Khan right here and Canelo Alvarez.

The right hand. See, this is... Oh, good Lord. Beautiful. That was one of those fights where... He's short-circuited right there. He doesn't know where he's at. That's not a game right there.

No. You're not playing that. Canelo is so much bigger than him, too. So much bigger. Yeah, I mean, he made 154, but he's a middleweight. And Amir Khan is a blown up welter. Yeah. But he just separated his soul from his body right there.

Just fucking hammer time. That was one of the interesting things. And you put this on your Instagram about the first Triple G fight. He landed in on Triple G, and Triple G shook it off and kept walking towards him. Yeah. And you can see it in his eyes like and kept walking towards him. And laughed. Yeah. And you can see it in his eyes like, oh my goodness. Caught him clean. I mean, you're a fighter, man. You hit someone with your best shit and they don't budge. Yeah.

Especially if you're used to taking people out. And everything shifts. Well, that's where a guy like Pauly Malignaggi has a slight advantage. He very rarely knocks anybody out. So he's used to hitting people and keeping going. Yes, yes. He's got to have crazy endurance.

He had bad hands. So he had to change his style, you know, to box and just poke the jab over and over and over. Throw a right hand every now and then to keep him honest. But with bad hands. But the beautiful thing that Canelo did, he just pawed with a jab just to draw him down. Then it came over the top with the right hand. But yeah, beautiful stuff. Yeah, that fight, I watched it again

after Teddy Atlas and I had a podcast. I watched a Triple G Canelo fight again. Did you score it? Nope. No, I didn't. Because my kids were running around. So the eye test, what does your eye test say? Fucking close fight. Fucking close fight. I. Fucking close fight.

You know, I think Triple G came on real strong towards the end of the fight. Second half, yeah. Makes you want a 15-round fight is what it makes. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. But again, them motherfuckers were struggling. Yeah. You know, with those 15 rounds.

Like the Dooku Kim stuff with Ray. I think like a lot of that shit was because of the 15 rounds. You know what I mean? Also because of weight cutting back then. Of course. No IVs. And same-day weigh-ins. Yeah.

Which is fucking dangerous. Yeah. Real dangerous. Yes. But 15 rounds. I mean, it's funny. We watch fighters in any professional fight in combat sports. You see them gassing in the second.

Larry Holmes had big tits, and he was going 15 easy. Yeah. It's crazy, you know. It's just the human body is. It's also understanding how to manage your energy too, right? Of course. Of course.

Of course. I mean, when you come out in the first couple and you're just letting shots fly and then you're gassing in the middle, that's not a shock. Yeah. Yeah. It can work, but when it doesn't work, you're gassed in the middle it's that's not a shock yeah yeah that's it's it can work but when it doesn't work you're fucked exactly yeah yeah when you ice them in the second you look like you have a you had a brilliant game plan yeah when you're gassed in the seventh

people are questioning you know your ability your ring iq your your corner you know it's a risk it's a heavy risk to throw all your artillery at someone in the first round. Absolutely. It's just such a fascinating sport. I love all combat sports, but one of the things about boxing is it's a combat sport that has the longest,

richest history. When you go back and you can watch, when Teddy was here, we were watching Max Schmeling versus Joe Lewis, the second fight. You can go back and you can watch, I mean, when Teddy was here, we were watching Max Schmeling versus Joe Louis, the second fight. And, you know, you can go back and watch some of Sugar Ray Robinson's greatest fights. Yeah, Henry Armstrong. Yeah. Oh, man.

I mean, you get to see the rich history of boxing. And then you look at Jack Johnson fighting with those, you know, black and white films. Yeah. Jack Dempsey. Yeah. Gene Tunney. Yeah, man. It's crazy.

It's beautiful that we have it to see. All the guys in the audience with hats on. Who is that about Gene Tunney. Yeah, man. It's crazy. It's beautiful that we have it to see. All the guys in the audience with hats on? Who is that about? I don't know, man. Like, in the olden days, dudes all wore hats. All wore hats. Like pork pies. Yeah, strange.

Well, very strange. Yeah. I mean, there's a history to boxing that no other sport could really come close to. Agreed. Yeah. Now, I always have been a giant fan of boxing. Before MMA came around, I mean, that was really all you had to watch. You could watch a little bit of kickboxing on television, rarely, but it was always bad. Well, the other thing was those guys were superstars. The heavyweight champ of the world when we were younger was like, you know, if we walked out on the street right now and asked someone who the heavyweight champ is, I'm guessing no one knows.

Some of them might say Mike Tyson. Well, for the longest time, the crazy thing was it was a white guy. Yeah. And no one knew. Like everybody when we were kids wanted a white heavyweight champion. That's why they pumped, you know, Jerry Cooney so hard. You know what I mean? Like they were trying, Tommy Morrison.

Yep. They wanted it so bad. You know what I mean? I know. But those guys, like Sugar Ray Leonard was a hero. He's on the McDonald's commercial. Those days are gone, though. It's become a niche.

It's now a niche sport again. You know what I mean? Why do you think that is? I don't know. I honestly don't know. Is it because people got tired of corruption? I've talked to Teddy at fights, you know, not at length like you did. But when, you know, when I go to fights and he's calling them, I always pay my respect. But I'm not sure how or why or when it shifted, that shift from the 80s to early 90s, and then that's it.

You know, was it Mike going to jail? I don't know. Was it, you know, Dale Ahoy was huge, but I don't know. I don't know. These dudes were like, you know, Ali was the most well-known. He's still the most well-known athlete ever maybe, right? Probably. Close to it.

You know, I don't know who else would beat him. Jordan by name, you know what I mean? What was really interesting was when Larry Holmes was a champ, nobody gave a shit. Because he had to fill the void of Muhammad Ali. And he was between Ali and Tyson. Tyson, yeah. The two dudes who basically transcended this world. Meanwhile, the Ali that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney,

I would have loved to see him against Tyson. Me too. That's a different, I mean, not Ali, excuse me, Larry Holmes. Yeah. The Larry Holmes that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney. Because he came out of retirement for that payday against Mike. He was fat. Yeah.

He looked out of shape. And he still looked good in the second round up until he got cracked. When he was dancing. Yeah. He looked good. A prime Larry gives Mike problems all day. Yes. Yes.

A prime Larry was a beast. A beast. He was a special fighter. He had a tremendous jab. The best heavyweight jab I ever saw. When he, the Ali that fought Larry Holmes was an old, broken down Ali. A shell of him. They shouldn't ever let that fight take place.

A shell of himself. It was horrible to watch. But that Larry Holmes, that Larry Holmes would have given Mike Tyson fits. Absolutely. It was a different Larry Holmes. Absolutely. He was a monster when he was young. Absolutely.

Long, snap and jab. Criminally underrated in history. Eddie Futch trained. Yes. I mean, you know, Eddie Futch may be the best trainer of all time. One of them, for sure. But again, like you said things are time and place man and everything music too yeah comedy some some some brilliant comedians

slipped through the cracks due to what was happening at that time yeah in comedy and then and with and with larry it's like yo you came after the most popular fighter of all time ever and before mike who you know again two dudes who transcended the sport and he beat up the most popular fighter of all time when everybody knew it was long long over yeah yeah so he can't people weren't happy about that and then he talked shit about marciano which didn't endear him to people that was a mistake yeah he said marciano couldn't carry his jockstrap. Yeah, that's my son's name. My son's name, Marciano. So that hurt. Yeah, that's a hurt one.

A little bit. Yeah. It's, you know, Larry just had poor timing, unfortunately, for him. Yeah. You know? He was very smart with his money, though, because I still see him at the fights. Yeah. And he's paid.

That's good. Yeah, it's good to hear because you know as well as I do what happens to some fighters. Well, didn't he own like a shitload of things in Easton, Pennsylvania? He just took over Easton. He did. Bought like car dealerships. Car washers and shit like that. Yeah, Larry was smart

man and he still talks shit too. Does he? Yeah. Well, remember when he came back and he boxed the face off of Ray Mercer? Yeah. He was old. He was old as shit when he remember he fought Butterbean and boxed him off. Yes. He still had it.

And when Mike Tyson went to jail, he's like, as long as Mike Tyson's in jail. Yeah. That was great. I'll keep fighting. Sure. That was hilarious. Yeah. Larry Holmes was something special.

He was. For a lot of people, he slipped through the cracks. People in the know know, though, and that's what's most important at the end of the day, you know? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. I mean, and then Trevor Burbick fought Ali, too, right? Yes. That was like, was that the last fight?

Yeah, or second to last, but the Parkinson's was already starting, man. You know, because you think of him a couple years later at Tyson, when Tyson beat Berbick, and he was trembling then. You know what I mean? Like, wow. Yeah. So that's what we talk about. You don't play boxing, man. You don't play MMA.

It's your life. It's interesting, too, that Ali, you know, I always like to watch that fight with Jerry Corey because it was after three years off yeah man and you see his body looks different it just looks softer you know if you see ali versus like cleveland williams yeah and then you see ali three years later after all that time off he just doesn't look the same he was never really the same he wasn't but you when you think about why he did it imagine having the constitution to give away the prime of your fighting career to not do that.

Yeah. It's very special. Because they wanted him to fight in the Vietnam War. He's like, this is a bullshit war. This is bullshit. None of them ever called. He said, none of them ever called me the damn word. Yeah.

You know what I mean? I'm not going over there to do that. They took three. It's prime. Yeah. You know you got that window as a fighter, man. Yeah. It's like four to six years.

And half of it was taken. It's kind four to six years, and half of it was taken. It's kind of amazing, too, that they did that, and then they gave it back to him. They let him fight again. I don't know what was the circumstances. How did they reinstate his boxing? I actually don't remember. I don't know either.

But I remember when he fought Frazier, I was like, man, I would have loved to see this fight three years ago. Yeah, man. Because he just was a different guy by then. He was way too flat-footed. he just was a different guy by then. He was way too flat-footed. It just was a different guy. Yeah. Well, Joe and Ali hated each other for real.

For real. Yeah, because Ali was saying horrible shit. Horrible shit. Horrible shit. Well, he's trying to fuck with his head, and that's how you do it. It worked, man. He was the original shit-talker, man. You think about it, it's like you see Conor and you're like, that's Ali.

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. There's a lot of them. And like Ric Flair. It's like Ali and Ric Flair. Yeah, there's a little bit of both of them there, too. Well, you remember when Henry Cooper knocked down Ali?

That was like the biggest thing in the U.K. ever. Hurt him bad. And then Angelo Dundee cut the gloves. Yep. I mean, if it wasn't for that move, Ali could have lost by stoppage in that fight. Very easily. Absolutely. He got fucking cracked in that fight.

Right on the fucking button. And sat down. He was on Queer Street. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, he had a house on Queer Street. He was picking up the mail. Here it is, right here.

Boom! Let's watch that again. that again i mean that is a fucking picture perfect left hand i mean look at him right on the button he is staggering back to his corner and it happened luckily for him at the very end of the round this is him he wasn't even muhammad ali back then right this was cashless clay correct so this is before he fought was it it before he fought Sonny Liston? I want to say it was. It was. Yeah.

Ooh, man. Who knows? They cheated him, though. Yeah, they did. They cheated him. It's a different world. Oh, we got to change gloves. They gave him a long-ass time.

Oh, we got to undo these laces, cut this tape. Brilliant, though. Yeah. Wow, hey, Angelo Dundee. He wasn't a newcomer. No, he was not. He knew what the fuck he was doing. He was great, man.

Yeah. My favorite stoppage of all Ali's fights is Cleveland Big Cat Williams because he hit him with these just welterweight combinations. Oh, his hit? Bing, bing, bing, bing. He did it. Bop, bop, bop, bop. Yeah.

I mean, he was throwing. Really, I never saw anyone throw combinations heavyweight like that before. He threw combinations like Ray Robinson. And the fluidity of them, too. Pull that fight up. This was one of my all-time favorites because Williams was a scary fucking dude, too. He was a big puncher, and Ali was just light on his feet, dancing in front of him. He was dancing, jabbing to the body.

No one does that anymore. Yeah, and Williams just kept pressing forward, pressing forward. Williams was a big puncher, man. Yeah, he could crack. He just couldn't find Ali and Ali was so loose in front of him. I mean, look at that. Jab to the body, hook to the head. Hook to the head.

Beautiful. He's dancing on him. Boom. Check left hook, move around. And then once he started tuning them up. The jab to the body and then back up top is beautiful, man. Beautiful. Oh, man.

This is art. This is art right here, man. Because there was never a heavyweight that moved like this. People have to realize this just didn't exist, man. And rarely does exist. The only guy who moves even remotely like this today is Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury can move. That big

motherfucker can dance. Yeah, he can. He dances and he's six foot, what, nine or eight or some shit? Six, eight, I think. He's huge. Yeah, he gets clipped a little too much for me. He definitely gets tagged. Yeah. He got tagged by Steve Cunningham from Philly and dropped that's the

cruiserweight yes which was even great i'm like yo his chin might not be all there well you know what cunningham's a shorter guy and sometimes for those really tall fighters it's very difficult to punch down that's how mike was getting over because he was in the chest and he was real yeah i mean that head movement and and the and the peekboo that, you know, the custom model developed. Put the end of that fight up so I could see the combinations that led to the stoppage. See, once he had Williams in trouble, go big screen. I mean, even there, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Yeah.

Like, once Williams' face had been jabbed off. And, Joe, the craziest thing—beautiful. The craziest thing about him is everyone historically has to sit down on their punches to get leverage on them. He didn't. He's dancing and bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Well, he wasn't trying to knock you out with every punch. He was just

cracking you. Pat, pat, pat, pat. And when you're getting peppered, that's fucking rough to deal with. Rough to deal with. It's frustrating. Because in your head, you're like, if I touch this motherfucker, I'm going to hurt him. But you can't touch him. And you just keep getting peppered. And eventually your legs start wobbling a little bit.

It's like trying to fight Willie Pepp. Yeah. He had the footwork of Willie Pepp in a heavyweight. It's un-fucking-heard of, man. That's another guy that people forgot about. Willie Pepp was one of the rare guys that won a round without ever throwing a punch. Yes, yes. Like, what the fuck, man?

Yep. Unbelievable. And a Dago. Yes. Yes. Indeed. We had a lot of good ones back in the day. Maybe not so much now, Joseph.

But we had a run. We had Lomato. We had Graziano. Graziano. Well, the community got established. That's the problem. People started doing well. Exactly. And then they get soft. Graziano. Well, the community got established. That's the problem. People started doing well. Exactly.

And then they get soft. Exactly. Exactly. The last guy we had was Arturo Gatti. Yeah. To really rap. Yeah. To really rap and, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. That's how it goes, though, right? The early immigrants are the ones who get shit on. Yeah. They're the ones who come up strong. Yeah. They're tough fighters.

And then, you know, now it's Cubans and Russians. Yeah. Because you come from that Russian amateur program, man. Like, there's no fucking joke. Right. That's one of the reasons why I love Lomachenko. That guy's an artist. You talk about art, man.

Yeah. I haven't seen anything, maybe 30 years, I haven't seen anything like him I know the footwork it's ridiculous I've never seen someone he's in a position to not throw a punch and throws a beautiful three punch combination I don't even know

I mean you know they call him the matrix or high tech two perfect names but I mean I've never seen anything like him maybe maybe a prime Roy. Yeah. You know, maybe. But Roy was different, too.

Roy was technically awful. He just had such reflexes. When they went, that's when he got melted. Yeah. Because he never. He didn't jab. No, he didn't do anything right, bro. He threw a left hook.

A lead left hook. A lead left hook. Rights from weird angles. Yeah. And it worked because his reflexes were superhuman. He was Superman. And then as soon as they deteriorated a little bit, and in fighting, you can deteriorate a little bit in baseball. You can deteriorate.

Well, I think what got Roy, what really got Roy, in my opinion, I'm a giant Roy Jones Jr. fan. He's maybe one of my all-time favorite fighters. What really got Roy is when we went up to fight John Ruiz. Yeah. And then he went back down to fight Tarver. Yeah. He was depleted. Depleted.

And I think when he went up to fight Ruiz, he might have had some Mexican supplements in his system. Yeah. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Sure. Yeah. I mean, he was like 200 and plus pounds. Like 208 or something.

Jacked, looked good. I think he should have retired after that win. Well, he definitely should have consulted with an endocrinologist and tried to figure out how his system was. And then the weight cut down to 175 must have been brutal because he was smooth. He looked like shit. He lost all his muscle tone. He looked like a guy.

And he was shredded in the 90s. Exactly. He looked like a guy whose system had been shut down. The thing that these guys don't maybe don't recognize if they take some shit or if they you know even if you just cut too much weight your body stops producing hormones sure your body's all fucked up yeah you're on you're on your way to die your body's telling you what the fuck are you doing yeah yeah so if he was 200 plus pounds when he fought ruiz then he has to cut down to 175. Yeah, 30.

Yeah, and who knows how sophisticated his methods were. I mean, some fighters today are amazing at doing that. Yeah. I mean, they know how to do it correctly. They know how to rehydrate correctly. Yeah. And boxing at least has the benefit of not having USADA in place like the UFC does. The UFC has a real problem with a lack of IVs,

and these guys can't rehydrate correctly or the way that they want to. It's dangerous. It is dangerous, but in their defense, it's also a way that they can detect whether or not someone's cheating. Okay. Because when they're using IVs, you can mask a lot of shit. Right. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's why they do it. Okay. Yeah, they just using IVs, you can mask a lot of shit. Right. Yeah, I didn't think about that.

Yeah, that's why they do it. Okay. Yeah, they just won't let you do it. So when, I don't know what happened with Roy when he did it, but then you can't take anything away from Tarver either, because Tarver almost beat Roy the first time they fought. Yeah. But then fucked him up the second fight. Oh, he fucking flew his head.

Yeah. And the famous words, any excuses tonight, Roy? Yeah, right before they fight. I never saw anything like that. He was so head. Yeah. And the famous words, any excuses tonight, Roy? Yeah, right before they fight. I never saw anything like that. He was so confident. Yeah. I don't think he gets his due either. No, he doesn't.

He doesn't. He had some great wins. Yeah. He had some great wins. He's still at it too, right? Yeah, at heavyweight. Is he like 45 or something like that? 46, 47.

And he's still at it. But he got popped. For steroids. Yeah. Well, duh. If you're 45 and you're still looking good there's something going on the only person

I truly believe and I realize you'll think I'm biased because of where I'm from but I don't think Bernard ever did anything I don't think he did anything either

Bernard just lives clean I've seen him order grilled chicken and get chicken that was fried by accident and peel the fry off of it rather than just go, oh, just this once I'll do it. Watched him take it off to just, you know what I mean,

to not eat his just insane dietary in the gym, you know. I agree. But the Joe Smith fight was sad to watch. Of course. That was a— The Kovalev fight was sad to watch. I was there, man. I was ringside, and I love Kovalev.

Yeah. But, you know, a Philly legend, like, ah, man, this is rough. Well, it's crazy to see how deep into his career he was still successful. Like, I wrote a blog article about the Kelly Pavlik fight. Uh-huh. Because I'm like, I don't remember how old he was at the time, but everybody had already written him off. Oh, my brother and I were there like, Pavlik's going to beat the dog shit out of Bernard.

And he gave him a fucking lesson. Boxing lesson. He put on a clinic. Well, people have to realize he was technically past his prime when he fucked up Tito Trinidad. He was 36. Yes. 36. It was 36 in 2001.

Yes. That was two weeks after 9-11, that fight, and he was 36 then. How crazy is that? Yeah. How old was he when he fought Joe Smith? 50? 50. Damn.

Maybe 51. Definitely 50. Crazy. So he was, he, I'd say he lasted 15 years longer than the average guy. Yeah. You know? Well, how about when he came back and boxed Roy Jr.? Yeah. Well, Roy, when Roy beat him the first time, was beating him with all those reflex guy. Yeah. You know? Well, how about when he came back and boxed Roy Jr.? Yeah.

Well, when Roy beat him the first time, he was beating him with all those reflexes. Yes. And then when the reflexes slid off, he clearly outboxed Roy in the second fight. With just fundamentals. Yes. Perfect mechanics.

Because Roy didn't have them. He didn't have them. Yeah. He was relying on what was once there. Yeah. But it wasn't. He was a shell of his former self. Well, it was also the Glenn Johnson fight. It was a scary knockout he was on queer street well he was just flatlined

and astral traveling after the got knocked out by tarver yeah then there was not that much time in between those two fights no no it was it was the next fight yeah and he and that those knockouts where you're you're out on your feet before you hit the ground, then your head hits the canvas, which is two shots. And he was stiffened up. It was sad to watch. It was. It was.

I thought that was going to be the end. Me too. And then he started fighting, like, in Russia, getting sanctioned over there. He's a Russian citizen. Yes, man. That's a bizarro world. Russian pussy involved. It has to be.

It has to be. He's got to have some Toto over there, man, to do that. When you're talking about Larry Holmes, I looked up his Wikipedia. His last fight was in 2002 against Butterbean. He was 51 or so. And he put it on Butterbean. Ten-round fight.

That's crazy. And Butterbean can crack. That big motherfucker hit hard. But Larry just, that snake, that snake in the jab. You're not getting through that.

Yeah, pop. Every time he tries to come in, bong, bong. Remember that, when dudes would wear those golden palace dot com things

Yes, Bernard was the first person, he did it in the Tito fight, remember? Was that the first? Yeah. Yeah, that was so weird. Someone did it in the UFC too.

They wore that shit on their back. It's odd. Yeah. Just put it on your trunks if you're going to do it, I guess. Well, you don't get as much money. But it is. I know Bernard got 50K to put it on his back, and he bet it on himself against Tito.

Really? Yeah. And you know he was a huge underdog. Wow. Everyone thought Tito was going to whoop his ass. Everyone. Everyone. I was jumping off my brother's couch when i

yeah he fucked him up yeah man yeah bernard was a special athlete he really was absolutely special fight all-time great for sure yeah definitely yeah and it was interesting because i used to watch him when he was in his 30s and he would complain about crooked promoters and all these things yeah and my thought was man it's too bad this guy missed his prime. Right. And then he did what he did. And then he did what he did after that. After that, yeah.

Because he was in jail for strong-arm robbery and got out and kind of wallowed in obscurity. And then his shot was that Roy fight. Yeah. And so we were like, ah, you got your shot. I guess that's it. Yeah. And he just got better.

Yeah. Better with age. Oh, man, it got your shot. I guess that's it. And it just got better. You know, better with age. Oh, man, it's like the rarest thing in anything. Well, the discipline that he had. That's what it is. It's extraordinary discipline and, you know, his mindset. It should be a lesson to everyone. Yeah.

You know, the discipline and dedication to whatever you want to do can be achieved through that. And he's still in good shape. Amazing shape. That's the other thing. He doesn't balloon up. Amazing shape. No, never, never. I see him at the fights.

He's still the same. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Oscar's chubby now. Yeah. You know. But I don't blame those dudes. Like, when Duran got really big, that dude was cutting.

When he was trying to make 135 and all that. Yeah. You know, he just kept going up because he liked to eat. Yeah when he fought iran barkley at 168 i mean this is a dude who turned pro 135 well i remember when he fucked up davy moore oh my god that was unreal i was like what is this everybody thought davy moore this young lion lion destroy this old legend and roberto thumbed him the rams are my top five all time oh Oh, yeah. Any weight class, top five, yeah. Well, I always tell people, if you really want to watch Roberto, you got to watch the lightweight Roberto.

Before he even went to fight Leonard. The black and white fights. Yeah, Kenny Buchanan. Right. Oh, that's beautiful. Most people in America think of Durant from like Sugar Ray on. I'm like, you want to see art. Yeah.

And just subtle shit on the inside that he did, what he was doing before Chavez. Yeah. That little subtle shit on the inside and picking off shots that people don't know is defense. He was eating none of those shots

on the inside and then banging the body and all of that. Those fights were art. Yes, he was great at 40, 47, 54, 60. He did amazing things. And again, that's why he's in my top five. But you're right.

If people want to see Duran, watch those fights at lightweight. Yeah, he came up in weight just to get paid. Of course. I mean, he could have stayed at lightweight for a long time. Of course, and just dominated and been. I still, even now, think he's the best lightweight ever. Wow. I don't think there's any lightweight that was better.

Well, he was shredded back then. Yes. With that fucking dark shredded back then. Yes. With that fucking dark goatee. He looked like the devil. I said, once I'm on a post, I said, if I'm in a dark alley, I'm more scared of Duran than Tyson. Really? Yes. All day.

That motherfucker will do some shit to us that I don't know Mike's capable of. I don't know Mike's capable of. There was an interview where they went to see him in Panama, and he picked up a cat by the tail and smashed it against a brick wall. Yeah, okay. I don't want to see that guy in an alley. Yeah, and the interviewer was like, what? Yeah.

He just grabbed a cat and chucked it against a wall. Look, man. I mean, look. There's a darkness to that. Yeah. You're a couple sandwiches short of a picnic if you're doing that. Well, I mean, you got to think about a guy growing up in Panama when he did. You're fighting for your life.

No rugs, no floor, mud. That's another level of poverty that we don't get the very first thing you said in this interview we were born in America we already had that one step above all these you're talking about Castro's Cuba

he won't let those amateurs leave Rigondeaux had to escape all those dudes had to escape his family's there these dudes leave their family on a fucking boat had to escape. All those dudes had to escape. Erislandy Lara, his family's there, bro. These dudes leave their family on a fucking boat, not a boat,

on a fucking raft. Yep. Because Castro's like, no, we want to build the amateur program. That's why Rigondeaux, he's got dudes in like two Olympics.

You try to make it to one and then go pro and he won't let them. Yeah. The program, I don't know if his son, it seems like there's a shift now there's a shift culturally they let yoel romero come back yeah yoel romero

went back and he was hanging out there but he said it was very tense like you don't talk you don't say nothing really he's like yeah he goes because everybody's jealous they're all mad that you get to come back and forth because you know yoel, Yoel Romero, top UFC fighter, he went back. I wouldn't go back. I wouldn't go back. You know? Not if I had the life I had here. You know what I mean?

And being a top guy and getting paydays. I understand why he went back. Of course I understand why. You know what I mean? But if me and you go to Italy knowing we might not come back here, look, they can have it. Yeah, they can have it. You know? I've got pictures. and you go to Italy, no, we might not come back here. Look, they can have it. Yeah, they can have it. You know?

I've got pictures. There you go. I've got family and we've got WhatsApp and shit like that. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, I'm not interested in going anywhere. I can't come back. No, man.

No. But I just don't think we'll ever understand what it's like to be essentially a prisoner in a communist dictatorship. Absolutely. And to grow up through the amateur program. And when Yoel Romero was on the podcast, Joey Diaz was translating for him. It was beautiful. And he was explaining, you know,

what life is like in, you know, these amateur programs. It's like you are sharing time with 10 other people that want your spot. Yeah. And that's what you're doing all day long. You're training with 10 other people. That's all those kids do, man. That's all they do.

It's all they know. And you think about, there's no scenario where I'm jumping in shark-infested waters on a fucking raft. Right. And if you're driven to do that, whatever drives you to do that must be fucking heavy, man. Yeah. And of course, him telling you that allowed you into the mind of that fighter. That's a very rare experience that you had that he shared that. Because a lot of these dudes don't get to tell their story, you know what I mean, of what it was like.

And the amateur program, being stuck there, being a prisoner. Once these dudes get out, you know, like some of them, they'll be like, you know, like there'll be Olympic Games in, say, Europe, and they'll escape from there. Yep. They'll just dart after the fight. Well, that's what happened with Yoel. Oh, that's what he did. He escaped in Germany. Okay, yeah, yeah.

A couple people did the same thing, like Russia, wherever they were at for games, and got the fuck out. I mean, him getting in the ring after going through that is cake. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's living, you know, training in a gym and sleeping on a bed with sheets. And it's like, this is cake. You know, that's the shit we don't appreciate when I was talking about being a negative person.

Yeah. Well, he was talking about in the amateur program, if you do well, if you're at the top, you get three meals a day. If you don't do so well, you get two. Like you're literally fighting for your ability to eat. It's insane.

Like we don't, we can't understand. No, man. Not on any level. No. I mean, imagine that's all you've ever known too.

Of course. And then you see these slobs in America complaining. Yes. You know? That's how I, when I started seeing shit, some of the places in Eastern Europe that weren't part of the union yet, and then squalor and two-year-olds asking me for money. I'm like, yo, man, get your shit together, meaning me. Get your way of thinking.

Change it. Because this is this kid's reality. Yeah. She's a two-year-old girl. Her mom's telling her to come over, you know, asking me for Euro. Yeah. That's a game changer. Yeah.

And if that doesn't change you, I don't know, man. You're off. The biggest mindfuck is that if you make $35,000, you're off the biggest mind fuck is that if you make 35 000 you're in the one percent of the world when people talk about one percent as you think about people with yachts and private jets and fucking diamond rings of course nope one percent is 35 000 a year for the world yeah man yeah that's that's sobering that's scary yeah when you travel a lot like where's your favorite places to go yeah i know you do europe you you travel all over the place touring um i love scandinavia really yeah why is that i don't know i like i hate the heat

bro oh do you yeah i'm like one of those dudes the air conditions on 24 hours and it's 30 degrees. It's mega clean, too. Yeah. It's super clean. It looks fake. It looks like a movie set. Really? Yeah, but the crowds are crazy.

I mean, I'm from Italy, so of course I love that. Australia was incredible, but I almost had a nervous breakdown on the flight. Oh, because it's too long? Bro. Bro. It's a flight and a half, man. Bro. incredible but i almost had a nervous breakdown on the flight oh because it's too long bro bro it's a flight and a half man bro it's five five or six hours from philly and then you fly out of la acton was another 17 is it 17 australia if you leave from philly it's 22 right that's a long look man look man how much is it if you go the other way? On the way home, we were at the farthest point in Australia. So the flight in Australia was like six hours.

So from the time I texted my mom, Mom, I'm leaving to come home to Philadelphia, I got home 36 hours later. So they offer me constantly to come back. And, you know, this is what we do for a living. We go places. And I'm like, yo, man, that flight, nervous breakdown. You have to decide what's more important, money or your mental stability.

And I'm already nuttier than squirrel shit. So I don't need anything to push me any further than it's already what's going on in between my ears. Thailand is a similar thing. It's like 14 and then another five. I think it was like 11 to go to Europe. Or where did we go? I think we went to Taiwan first and then it was another like five or something or but when by the time you're back you're so confused it took me two solid weeks

before I started sleeping at night again I think it took me three I'd wake up like two hours later I'd go to bed tired as fuck wake up two hours later wide awake it was two in the morning i'm like what is this your whole um circadian rhythms jacked fucked it takes forever to get back yeah man took me two or three weeks too and i we fucked up my family we did two trips in the summer we went to thailand and then we took two weeks off then we went to italy so it was just a double bunker so was it enough for you to be like i'm not going back or would you no no i like it all right i've learned how to travel i really like taking my kids places too i really like the fact that i like to expose them to places like thailand

like italy and take them to different places i I like exposing them to Costa Rica. Well, we didn't get to do that. Yeah. So the fact that you have the ability to do that, it's beautiful for them. That's a lot. That's cool shit to say that they did that. I'm enjoying it more than I ever thought I would. Being a parent to me, it's not just a beautiful thing to watch these little people that I love so much grow and have fun and

be happy but it's also I'm getting to experience the world through their eyes watch them ride an elephant in Thailand watch them you know watch them uh zipline with me in Costa Rica we're laughing together on the beach it's intense man it really is it's intense and it's made me shift my values and shift how I think about just experiencing things. Yeah. It's a heavy thing, man. They change you in ways you didn't think were possible. Yeah. You know, empathy. But like you said, seeing things through their eyes, that's like the coolest thing. You know what I mean? Because we didn't have that.

Yeah. It's weird. it's weird it's weird man so it makes you feel super vulnerable too you know like you were talking about your mom like worrying about your mom yeah yeah you worry about people that you care but it's one of the things that's like a catch-22 it's like if you're on your own you don't have to worry about nobody you don't give a fuck about nothing but you also don't have anything right so when you have all these people that you love and you care about so much then you worry about losing them it's it's it's double-edged sword man it's heavy yeah because when i when i was alone just wilding it's like i was behaving that way because i had nothing right so you're looking for something then you find it right and all you do is worry about losing it yeah you know

it was like it goes back to what we're talking about earlier like if you're not scared a little if you're not nervous a little if if you're not nervous a little, if you're not, like, if you don't get a little bit of anxiety, well, you're not paying attention. You know, you're not living your life. No, you're not seeing anything. You're not putting yourself out there.

Right. If you're putting yourself out there, you're going to have some anxiety. You're going to have some fear. You're going to have some worries. Well, those people that don't have that don't put themselves out there. Exactly.

They live in a bubble, and they're comfortable in that bubble. They live gray and dry. Yes. It's that Nietzsche question. Would you rather live your life in a series of tremendous highs and tremendous lows or just flatline? Flatline. These people think flatlining that square life is like, yo, you know, 2.5 kids and a house.

Like, this is it. No, that's not it, man. It's not it. I mean, there's nothing wrong with having 2.5 kids and a house, Like, this is it. I'm like, no, that's not it, man. It's not it. I mean, there's nothing wrong with having 2.5 kids in a house, but go do some shit. No, that's what I meant. Take your kids. Yeah, that's what I meant.

Go to the woods. Go rafting. Sure. You know? Yeah, get something done, man. We went whitewater rafting last year in Montana. That was shit, too. Wow.

With the kids? Yeah, man. Glacier River, you know, fucking freezing cold water, bears everywhere and shit. Wow. N kids yeah man glacier river you know fucking freezing cold water bears everywhere and shit it's nuts man wow you're going rafting down this river and you're seeing trout jump and it's like just getting to them to see them experience shit like we took them to yellowstone they got to see bison you know wild bison up close so their minds are just blown by i just want them to see as much shit as i can show them that's great i want them to see bison, wild bison up close. Yeah, so their minds are just blown by it. I just want them to see as much shit as I can show them. That's great, man.

I want them to see. I mean, every few months, my wife and I sit down and talk. Like, what are we going to do this summer? Where are we going to take them? Like, this year was Thailand. Where are we going to go next year? We got to take them somewhere else weird. God bless.

Yeah, it's fun, man. It's fascinating. It's a weird life education that I didn't anticipate. Of course. You build it, man, and you deserve it because you did it your way, and that's punk rock as fuck. Punk rock as fuck. That's funny.

Yeah. When you're traveling, how many guys are you bringing with you? It's usually, so there's three of us on stage, like me rhyming, a hype man and a DJ, and then a tour manager and a merch guy. So usually five. That's a good thing because comics a lot of times travel by themselves. Right. They get depressed well i know like i know like arty would talk about it a lot like just being alone in a in a hotel room and fucking schenectady i figured that

shit out a long time ago though i started bringing my friends with me because in in promoters or clubs they wouldn't pay for the friend they wouldn't pay they wouldn't pay for so i would just say look give me a flat rate. I'll pay my opening act. I'll pay their airfare. I'll pay their hotel. I'd rather lose money. On my earlier tours,

I was, the promoters didn't care about opening acts and I was paying my homeboys to be the opening acts just like you. What I was getting paid,

I was handing it to them. Same thing. But it's a better experience. It is, because you're keeping yourself sane. Yeah, and you have family in the road. When I go on the road, if I go on the road was getting paid i was handing it to them same thing but it's a better experience it is because you're keeping yourself sane yeah and you have family in the road like when i go on the road if i go on the road with joey or ari or any of those guys we're family yeah tony we're having a good time sure you know it's like wherever we are like what time you guys want to eat let's eat at lunch

right noon okay i'll meet you guys down yeah that's how we are you guys want to go to the gym all right let's go hit the gym so we're laughing and having a good time but in the early days i did a lot of those solo trips. There's a weird, empty feeling you have. Sure, man. That's very dark. That's, I mean, did you see that Louis episode? No.

That he did about traveling and he's alone? Oh, dude. It's a whole episode dedicated to what you just said. Yeah. And it was very dark. It was not humorous. You got to take friends with you. Yeah.

And I have friends to this day that don't do it that way. They go on this. They use local acts. And I'm like, man, don't do it. Yeah. But then I have to pay for his airfare. I'm like, pay the money. Sure, man.

Sure. I know you're going to make less money that way, but you'll feel better. You have to. There comes a time where those decisions where you're doing things monetarily, you're making this decision based on financial and you have to worry about your mental stability more. Yeah. Whatever the opener would get, if it's 500, a grand, three grand, five, whatever it is, that's worth having family with you. Not only that, I feel like your performance is going to be better. Because you're going to be with friends,

you're going to have a good time, you're not worried about the show, you bring a funny guy to open up for you. And you know he's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then so then more people

will come to your next show. It's like, it's better for you financially. It's a short-term investment for a long-term gain. Of course. Of course. That's what these people think.

They're penny wise and pound foolish. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't understand it when what you're doing everyone's gonna kill and then it's gonna be double the people next time yeah you know well at least everybody's gonna have a good time and you're not gonna get out of there crazy when i come back sunday morning i might be tired but at least i had a good time sure yeah i'm not i don't feel like i'm gonna fucking shoot myself. Absolutely.

Yeah. That's the real problem with travel. It's fucking depressing. You know, one of the things I read about an interview with Bourdain after he died, I started reading a bunch of shit that he had, because it blindsided me. I didn't see it coming. Yeah. And then after he died, I read a bunch of his stuff where he was talking about how intensely lonely it was when he was traveling and i knew he traveled with people that he cared about you know he traveled with people that he liked but i think just traveling

250 days a year period will fuck you up absolutely i i i can't say that people being with me i still don't feel lonely because there's something, there's a connection to home that once I separate from that, from home, from Philly, from my mom, you know, all of that, once, once I'm separated from that reality, it, I love having my friends around me and it makes it better, but it doesn't fix it. There's still this sense of I'm out here alone, but it doesn't fix it. Yeah. There's still this sense of I'm out here alone.

You know, there's still, and I don't, I can't make any sense out of that because I'm technically not alone. So it's not, it doesn't make much sense. You're not home though. Right. I read something where you were saying that this might be your last tour. I'm just, I don't know, man. It's coming. Yeah?

Yeah. How old are you now? I'll be 41 on October 5th. And you just getting tired of it? It's draining me, man. It's draining. Forget the physical. It's draining my spirit.

It's the anxiety before I'm leaving. Say you get nervous like three days before you're leaving. Now it's starting like two months before I'm leaving. Really? Yeah. When you go out, how long before you're leaving. Now it's starting like two months before I'm leaving. Really? Yeah. When you go out, how long do you go out for? That's changed too. I mean, I would go out for six weeks, 42 shows in a row before, you know,

before. Now I got like two, two and a half weeks in me. Then I'll come home. Then I go, like when I, when I come back from Cali, then I go to Europe, you know? But, you know, again, like to say last tour, it's like I don't want to fucking turn into Gene Simmons. You know what I'm saying? Where it's like, this is it.

So come see me. You're never going to see me again. Like I'm not doing that. That was in the 1980s they did that. Yeah, in 83 or something, you know. I don't want to do that. It's why I chose my words properly where it was more like you know i'm getting run down and it's you know traveling is is uh it's uh again it's no different

than you it's beautiful being up on stage when people are laughing you know but getting there yeah the flights the this the that the hotels it's just i don't you know it's something that you could never explain to someone who doesn't do it and why exactly you're tired. Still, when you walk out on stage in Germany or some shit. It all goes away.

And everybody goes crazy. It all goes away, man. Oh. You know, it's still. Other side of the planet. Other side of the planet. It's still the most humbling thing in the world because it's still in my head like,

no, I'm a kid from Philly, you know, like it was rhyming on street corners. Ladies and gentlemen, Vinnie Pass. Yeah. That could never... It's crazy, right? Never not feel great, you know? I know.

It's... I almost feel bad for people that'll never experience that. Sure, sure. It's a mind fuck. It's unreal. It's like, it's pinch yourself shit. Yeah. You know, you're like, how the fuck did they...

Sometimes you gotta step back, you know? I don't think as people we do that shit. Yeah. You know, you're like, how the fuck did that? Sometimes you got to step back, you know? I don't think as people we do that enough. Yeah. You know, because we're living in the moment. Like, even right now, like, I've been a fan of yours for a very long time. And just to have this convo with you is beautiful. And it's going to be a mind fuck later after I think about it. Right.

You know what I mean? Because we're just talking like old friends now. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it's like, I've been following your whole career, you know what I mean? And been a fan your whole career.

So it's... I still get weirded out when I meet people. Of course. It's weird. Of course. Knowing someone for a long time by watching their stuff or listening to their stuff.

And then you're right in front of them like, hey. Yeah, man. Yeah, like I became friends of Bill Paxton because he like was like can I can I come to the show I'm a fan why that guy was great oh it was the best you know what I loved him in remember that vampire movie oh shit the fuck was that movie I don't remember what that was called what was that goddamnit did you see the shit he directed, Frailty? I did see that. That was good.

That was very good. Yeah, man. That was creepy. Very creepy. Yeah. What the fuck was that vampire movie? Jamie's got it. What is it, Jamie?

Near Dark. That was a great film. That's one of the best vampire movies ever. And one of the ones that people forgot about. Jamie's like, you're fucking... This motherfucker. He's a wizard that people forgot about. Jamie's like, you're fucking, this motherfucker. He's a wizard.

Yo, man. He's a wizard. You're like not even finished sentences and shit's gone. He's on the ball. What we've been working together a long time

is telepathic. That's what's going on. I can tell. No shit. I can tell. Much respect, man. Paxton was in a gang of good movies, man.

Yeah, man. He was great. Bro, Chet. Yeah. Your stooge, buttwad. Yeah. Aliens. Yes. He was in Aliens, the second Alien movie. movies yeah man he was great bro chet yeah you're stewed buttwad yeah aliens yes he's an alien it's a second alien remember he's in the first scene of terminator he's the punk rock he takes his clothes remember that's right yeah yeah man talented guy very sad man that guy went on fucking good morning america yeah he went on good morning amer America and bigged me up to like Kathy Lee.

Really? She's like, I heard you're a hip hop fan. He's like, yeah, Jedi Mind Tricks. I was like, what the fuck? You want to talk about what the fuck? You know what I mean? I'm like, I got like one sock on, my hair sticking up, and Bill Paxton saying my name on Good Morning America.

How old was he when he died? I can't. I think he was only like 50 something. Yeah, man. He was young. He died of a stroke he was young and and and not a dude who like he was in good shape and you know lived well 62 fuck stroke jesus christ and he had a young son has a young son you know very young he's only 21 now 22 you know so that's yeah you never know

man you do never know yeah that's a hard life too man that movie star life maybe oh poor baby's a movie star but those set days are rough man 16 hours a day 16 18 hours standing around waiting and then you got to do it again the next day and you're working six seven days a week rarely do you have a day off because their budget is only a certain amount they're gonna smash in all the filming so you're doing 42 days in a row or something yeah everybody's on everybody's nerves you're on top of people and stressful intense you ever hear the christian bell rant yes the fucking sound guy or the lighting guy was in his way. You fucking amateur, man. Losing it. Yeah.

Loses his shit. Yeah. Well, he's an intense motherfucker, that guy. Brilliant actor. Yeah. He's one of those I'll almost die for a part guys. Definitely. When he did the Dickie Eklund, the Mickey Ward shit, he almost died.

Well, and then that was the second time he did that. Mechanic. Remember he did the mechanic? Yes. A machinist. Machinist and a mechanic. That shit is brilliant. It's not even a good movie. That's the problem time he did that. The mechanic. The mechanic. Yes. A machinist. Machinist and a mechanic. That shit is brilliant. It's not even a good movie. That's the problem.

It's just a horror scene. Yeah. It's just a horror scene. Just seeing him literally on death's door. Yeah. That's the brilliance in it. Yeah. I just don't understand people that are willing to do that.

I mean, just do something else, man. Yeah. I'm not willing to do anything. So he almost died. Do a role where you don't have to starve yourself, man. Yeah, you had to have another script in front of you that day. And that's the thing.

Do that movie and all that movie is known for is the fact that you almost died. Yeah. That's it. Nobody's like, man, the machinist was... Like when Robert De Niro gained a shitload of weight for Raging Bull. Yeah.

He got in fantastic shape, played Jake LaMotta, was ripped, and then gained a fuckload of weight to play Jake as he was older. Yes. Like you go, wow, that's some serious goddamn commitment. And it's one of the best movies ever. Yeah, that's the thing. It's one of the best movies ever. Yeah, that's the thing. It's one of the best movies ever. But if you do that,

like Charlize Theron did that when she played Eileen Wernos. Monster, yes. Yeah, that was another one. And that was even more bold. She's a beautiful woman. Yes, yes. So for her to get fat and disgusting like that,

it was like, wow. Yeah, and that movie's great. It was a great movie. It won the Oscar, right? Or she did? I don't know. Yeah. I think, yeah, she got gross, man. Jeez. Yeah. It was a great movie. It won the Oscar, right? Or she did? Oh, yeah. I think, yeah, she got gross, man.

Jeez. Yeah. That's a horror movie. My friend Patty wrote and directed that. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. Patty Jenkins in the house.

Wow. That's crazy. You think about how fucking smoking hot she is. Yeah, man. She got gross. Got rid of her eyelashes, her eyebrows, everything. Look at her with that Oscar. Ooh, same person, hollow.

It makes you think, all those chubby, gross ladies. Maybe they just need a little motivation. Look like Charlize Theron. It's a tough craft, that acting. It's one of those jobs where everybody wants to do it, but very few people can. And when you do do it, it's like such an unbelievably grueling grind. Yeah. You can only do it for so long.

Of course. And if you're a woman, man, you got just a few years in your body. Oh, your window is very tiny. Yeah, especially if you're a hot woman. Yeah. There's a gang of those 22-year-old cupcakes coming up trying to take your spot.

Absolutely. And they're just as crazy as you. They can cry on cue. And they will always be coming up. Always. Always. Always. There's always bad parents out there

making good actors. Absolutely. Making bad parental decisions and sending their kids to Hollywood. I mean, that's what it is here. There's a flood of, I mean,

how often do you spend time out here? Pretty often. A couple times a year. I have a lot of, like, close friends out here. It's a Hollywood. I mean, that's what it is here. There's a flood of, I mean, how often do you spend time out here? Pretty often. A couple times a year. I have a lot of close friends out here. It's a strange place. It's a bizarro world. Yeah. Yeah.

And Philly is not a showbiz hub. No. At all. But there's a lot of great showbiz. Kevin Hart. Sure. A lot of great bands. Yeah, yeah.

A lot of great music. Of course. Great stuff comes from Philly. Yeah. But it's not a showbiz hub. It's not. It's not. I mean, we're 90 miles from New York, so that's like, you know, but not close enough.

But this is a showbiz hub. Of course, yeah. So this attracts all the weirdos. I mean, every waiter's an aspiring actor. You know, bartenders. But I still, through all the times I've been coming here, can't wrap my head around that. Like, everyone's an aspiring something. Everyone.

Everyone. Yeah, that's what it is Yeah, so place well the other thing is you get to know like I get to know people when they have kids Yeah, your kids become friends with their kids and then you meet the pain you think the parents are normal and it turns out No, you know there were actors that gave it up and you know sells fucking computers or whatever, right? It's like everyone had this dream to come out here. I think if you just took into account all showbiz aspirations in Southern California, you saw it on a map, like a little red light would go off wherever the showbiz aspirations were.

It'd be overwhelming, man. It would be. It would be. Whereas in a place like Philly or Boston, where I'm from, you don't see much. No. Anyone with aspirations is sort of self-contained. Yeah. And they do what's necessary.

But it's just I've always been intrigued because L.A. and New York are those places where everyone you ask isn't from there. Right. You know what I mean? The girl walking down the street in Manhattan is from Iowa. Right. And she wants to be a model or whatever. And it's like the same thing out here. Like, oh, I'm from wherever.

Nobody's from here. Yeah. Well, not nobody. Very few. Yeah. Very few. Yeah. It's a total transient city.

And New York is a weird one, too, because whenever I'm in New York, I look at all these people, I go, okay, how do you afford this? I just see a shmall walking down the street, and I'm like, yo, a closet here is like five grand a month, and you just look, it looks like you just walked out of a sewer like a chud. I don't understand it. I don't either. And, you know, I've talked to people that lived there in the 90s and still live there today.

Yeah. They're like, New York City used to be a lot of artists and a lot of, like, weird people. Especially downtown. Yeah. Now, it's all finance people. It's just so gentrified. It doesn't look like the New York that we used to see. Gentrified is a fun name for white people, right?

It is. That's what it is, right? It is, sure. It's happening in Philly, too. Is it? Yeah, whitey's bum-rush in places that I used to hang out with. You had to speak Spanish to be there, and it was the hood. And now it's like white people walking

that look like they're in Weezer, walking little, like, toy dogs. You know, it's a fucking, it's a murder scene, man. Well, that's a weird thing. Like, D.C. has that, too. D.C.'s weird in that the hood and the gentrified neighborhoods are, like, a block away from each other. That's how weird thing. Like, D.C. has that, too. D.C.'s weird in that the hood and the gentrified neighborhoods are like a block away from each other. That's how Philly is. And these motherfuckers are going to walk one block the wrong way and be fucking beheaded.

But look, have at it, man, I guess. How does that work? It's just people go there for some sort of a professional gig and they run out of real estate. So they just start redoing houses. Yeah, man. It's like it's basically like glorified slumlord shit. Like, you know, and you can't you can't displace poor people. It's not like they just disappear.

Right. Everyone's got to go somewhere. You know what I mean? So you're just like you're basically playing Tetris with humans. Like you're moving. You're moving. This is like one of the worst hoods in Philly, and now it's bougie. Is that really happening in Philly? Yeah, absolutely, man.

Like, the only city more gentrified than New York is Philadelphia, in my opinion. Well, that's happening in Brownsville, right? Yeah. I mean, you can just start going to East New York and Brownsville and say gentrify, Bed-Stuy. You know, like, you're talking Bed-Stuy, do or die. People just start going to East New York and Brownsville and say, gentrify, bed-stie. You're talking bed-stie, do or die. And now there's white guys named Chip walking around. It's like, what's happening, man?

So strange. It's bizarre. Gentrification is just bizarre in general because I'm like, yo, where are you putting the people that are leaving? Right. Where are they going? Well, whose responsibility is it? If you wanted to buy a building, are you supposed to think about the people that are poor that are there are you supposed to think about

your money that you're buying the building for the people that want to do it have to be cut from a different cloth that i'm not cut from i couldn't do that i couldn't do that just displace people sure yeah i don't it's just you have to it's there's a there's a cutthroat mentality that's needed and and it's needed in the um the music and entertainment industry that I don't have. And it's probably held me back by being just like a good guy. Do you think so? Like in what way? What could you have done that would have propelled you further?

Well, as far as like, as far as being more popular I don't know but decisions I've made like when you said you know you would pay for your buddies to come and I do too now if we had like a financial advisor they'd be like you two are morons

for doing that I would tell them these wrong cause I'd be performing better so it'd be better shows. My lawyer's like, you're the worst client ever. You pay everyone. You pay them too well. You pay them too handsomely.

Fuck everybody. I'm like, yo, man. I don't know if that helps you get by. I don't think that really advances you. If you have that mentality, I don't think that really advances you. I think have that mentality i don't think that really advances you i think what advances you is great work and what what is that's fair what does it take to make great work i think there's got to be a certain amount of you have to have a certain amount of chaos but also a certain amount of peace yeah of course you know and you

you get those from the there's decisions that you've made that I've made that ultimately you made them because that's who you are yeah well I I think in order for me to have altered who I am then I would have had to live with that too yeah and I don't want to not be who I am because if I I wouldn't want to do the the success wouldn't mean anything to me if I got there by not being me. You got to live with that. And that's worse than not succeeding to me. You know, I don't know about other people. A lot of people just fake it.

And they're not who they are. And they're okay with that if it comes with success. In order for me to shift who I am inherently, my fiber, my being, the way that i was raised to treat people if i had to shift that and have success i the success wouldn't be success to me it would be on paper the rap business is just so strange right and i don't know how you feel about mumble rap but mumble rap is one of the weirdest things to me it's i'm confused it's bizarre it's bizarre what is happening i just i feel like i feel like i don't want to be that dude right who doesn't get it right right you know what i mean but you don't get it i don't i don't get it either i don't but when you start dealing with youth culture and when i was the age of these mumble rap kids, there were older heads saying, you know,

the generation before us, the Cold Crush Brothers to the Big Daddy Kings, they probably thought what we were doing was crazy. So is that what's happening? I don't know. Maybe everyone's like, what the fuck is that? It's like, it's to the point with me where I'm like, yo, is that even a genre of rap?

Like, I almost look at it't i guess i don't have a problem with it because i don't process it as anything close to what i do right it's almost like if you said yo what do you think about edm i'd be like oh i don't know i guess it's all right it's right i don't even look at it like i i can't listen to that and then hear big daddy cane and think it's the same thing well when we were kids listening to music right if you're you were listening to something that you enjoyed, one of the things you loved was like good lyrics.

Of course. And when you can't understand what they're saying. Yeah. It's also, it's just so driven by, it's like phrase driven. Yeah.

They just say whatever the line. Over and over again. Over and over again, yeah. I don't know if like, it's just because these kids are doing Maui or whatever. Yeah. And they're just in a zone.

Is it drug culture? Because that's happened before, too. One thing creates the other. It's like chicken or the egg. Are these kids doing Mali and make mumble rap, or are they doing mumble rap and eating Mali? And it's the 60s, going back to the 50s, and beatniks and that scene, and jazz and heroin,

and what created it? You know what I mean? Did Miles and Coltrane make some of those records because they were on Heron, or vice versa? beatniks in that scene and jazz and heroin and what created it you know what i mean that miles and coltrane make some of those records because they were on haran or right vice versa and it's happened historically is this just a drug-driven culture i don't know because i it's i'm detached you know i'm detaching that and i and you know i'm i'm a kid who grew up you know listening to metal and stuff like that so i i don't i'm not at a shortage for, I'll listen to Slayer. I'll just listen to Slayer before I listen to that.

If that's my only option, then I'll listen to Slayer. You know what I mean? I'll listen to Black Flag. I'll listen to Minor Threat. That's what I'll do. So however I feel about it becomes irrelevant when you realize that you have so much good shit out there. So I don't need, it's like with film. I'm not worried about a bad movie.

I'll just watch a dope movie. Right. There's so many movies. They're not throwing them away. Right. And it's like, yo, I'll just listen to Thin Lizzy if I don't feel like adjusting to that. You know what I mean? And there's other things that we might not get because we're not doing what we used to do.

Maybe if we were out of the bar or the club five nights a week and you weren't married with kids and we were hammered, maybe it sounds different. It's time and place shit. It's like you hear certain songs and you're like, I'm not listening to this in my car. I'm rolling the windows up if someone sees this. But maybe it affects them differently in a live environment or something. I don't know. I'm not listening to this in my car. I'm rolling the windows up if someone sees this. But maybe it affects them differently in a live environment or something. I don't know. I'm playing devil's advocate. It's just a strange trend

where it's a lot of mumbling. I'm like, what? I don't know what they're on about. Cough syrup? Yeah, I think it's just lean and molly. And I think that drug culture created that. I have a friend of mine who's a real estate agent, and some mumble rapper was working at a house,

and she's like, I literally had no idea what the fuck he was saying when he was talking to me. So him talking is a human mumble. Who is he? He's a mumble. Wow. Yeah, he's just mumbling. He's all about mumbling. See, I didn't know that.

I thought it was like their style when they rhymed. But maybe it was just this one. She was showing him this dope house, and he's mumbling up a storm. Wow. So he's like asking her for a jacuzzi, and she thinks she's ordering a pizza. I don't know. I love listening to Nas, and I love listening to Public Enemy and clean lyrics that had a hit to them. Yeah, KRS-One.

Yeah, Big Daddy K. Yeah, of course. Whoop, whoop. That's a hit to them. Yeah, KRS-One. Yeah, Big Daddy K. Yeah, of course. Whoop, whoop. That's a side of the police. That's hip-hop. Yeah, there was something to it, though, that you knew that they were trying to get a message across along with the music. Of course. There was something cool about it.

Yeah, I think maybe these kids think you can't do both. Yeah. And our era was different. It's like people could dance to Public Enemy, and they were talking about what was going on in the urban community. Yeah. That era, there were boogie-down production KRS records. You could dance to Sound of the Police.

You could dance to Out of Here. You could dance. I think there's a disconnect with these kids that they don't think you can say something and have people dance or whatever. I don't know what these fucking mumble motherfuckers are doing. They might just slobber in the corner. Well, they all have to have tattoos on their face, too. Oh, yeah. That's another part of the program.

That's like another mockery. The tattoo. Settle down, man. You know they don't come off, right? You know? It's like, I think these kids think they can come off. I don't think they care. I just don't think they care.

I don't think they're thinking. I mean, it's all this I don't give a fuck culture. Yeah. It's like you just, and like, they're not trying to get cool shit on their face. They're trying to get like scribbles. Yeah. No, it looks like, you know, you draw on the face of the drunk kid at the party. That's what they all look like.

Yeah. You know? They all look the face of the drunk kid at the party. That's what they all look like. Yeah. You know? They all look like that with pink dreads. There's a lot of rap music that slips through the cracks, too. Like, a lot of people forget about Gangstar. Yeah. They're one of the greatest groups ever. Yeah.

You know? But it's like, it becomes the responsibility of the culture to uphold that. Like, when someone like Mitchitch hedberg who passed away young someone like bill hicks it's like the the the the comedic community it's their responsibility that those guys don't get forgotten right and it's the same with hip-hop it's it's my responsibility to to talk about gangsta and interviews so the 16 year old kid says oh i'll check that out it's my responsibility to say talk about big daddy kane and cool g rap and these dudes so people go cool g rap a lot of people forget about to me he's

the greatest of all time he was one of the greatest for sure i've listened to so much of his shit yeah to me he's the best ever that song cock blocking oh god just ignorance at its finest. That's a great fucking song. The guy says, stand up and wipe his dick on your curtain. That might be the best rap lyric of all time. Yeah, people forgot about Cool G rap. But if you think about Hicks, right? So he was 33, and I was like 93. There's young kids that love comedy that don't know about Bill. And he influenced my life.

Because towards the end, he was doing more social commentary than anything like it wasn't even a lot of it wasn't even that funny it stopped being jokes it was just like he was expanding his mind and felt like talking about it and Hedberg was brilliant like you know it's our responsibility

to like carry the torch of all these people that were great minds that left too soon like what Bourdain. I don't want people to forget about that guy. You know what I'm saying? He was special. Well, luckily we have a lot of shows to watch. Yeah.

His show was so unique too because of his narration. What's going to be interesting, I have the newest one with W. Kamau Bell. I haven't watched that yet, but it apparently is the last one where he does narration. Oh, okay. And then all the other ones from this season was after he died. So someone else is gonna... No, no.

They're not gonna do any narration. Oh, okay. They're just gonna let the show play itself out. Just be what it is. They're gonna do it, I guess, somehow with editing, and they're gonna figure it out. But, man. It's tough, man.

Another punk rock guy, too. Oh, yeah, man. That man. It's tough, man. Another punk rock guy too. Oh yeah, man. That guy went hard. Yeah, man. He went hard. OG. Yeah. If you look at him from like 2014 and then look at him for 2018, it's like he lived several

decades inside of a few years. Yeah. He went hard. He was going hard. He was going hard. Yeah. I don't know if I recommend it, but he said it best. You should treat your body like it's an amusement park.

He did. Yeah. Yeah, he did. I mean, there's something that we all have in common with all these artists is that there's an understanding that we have that they're all living this non-standard way of getting through this life that they're all living this this strange chaotic way and and creating these amazing things through this strange chaotic existence and we all cling to it and celebrate it and and look at it i mean whether it's henry rollins who travels he you know his crazy thing is he'll just pick a spot on the map and travel and stay there for a couple weeks yeah he doesn't even

know anybody that just goes there yeah or whether it's bourdain who would make these shows about it or whether it's musicians or comedians or anybody who does these things. It's like, I think I take comfort in the fact that there's guys like you out there and that everybody's not trying to be some cardigan wearing, you know, buttoned down, fake progressive who's just trying to not have people mad at them. So he's trying to say the things that you think you're supposed to say so that everybody likes you. And then before you know it, you're dead yeah there's no rebellion no no personal real objective opinions on things everything the great that's ever come has come out of rebellion yeah it's come out of a fuck you

to something if not a fuck you fuck me yeah you know, just fuck everything. What is this? What are we doing? Yeah, I don't know what we're doing. Fuck my life. Fuck, yeah. Fuck this. If I don't know what I'm doing, then I have to explore everything I can to try to figure out what I'm doing. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's the only way to learn is to say, I don't know what I'm doing, and then live in a bubble.

That's the antithesis of how to fix that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, you know, the beautiful thing is that a guy like you or me or other people that are living these different alternative lives, the other thing they do is they send a signal to that kid who's sitting in his room right now. His parents are yelling at him he's got all d's yes and he's like i can't fucking do this but you know what i really like to do i really like to listen to rap or i really like to listen to stand up yeah or i really like to do whatever the fuck it is i really like to read books i just don't want to telling that kid it's

okay it's an important part of what we do it's a huge part telling that kid the system that they have set up for you when you go through this bullshit education process then next thing you know you're in some fucking factory job or some nonsense cubicle that is not good right and they're not telling you that that that educational system they're not telling you anything they're not telling you about finance they're not telling you about diet they're not telling you that think about what we learned in high school and how it applies to our life. Almost nothing. Nothing.

Information with no, it's literally like giving you an engine but not giving you driving lessons. Yeah. And think of what they could be doing to prepare you. It's out there. Like, why aren't you giving these kids Kafka or Nietzsche? Or why aren't you telling them that this is terrible for you or this is filled with chemicals or this is this? That's information that needs to be out there. You know, I don't, I have, in terms of, did you ever learn anything about money when you were?

No. Nothing. You have to have it. You got to pay your bills. Yeah, I know that much. Get a good job. Yeah. Don't be a loser.

You're right. That's all I know. Fuck. And then how am I going to do that? Because I don't want to do that. I I know that much. Get a good job. Yeah. Don't be a loser. You're right. That's all I know. Fuck. And then how am I going to do that? Because I don't want to do that. I don't want to be in a cubicle. I know that. So how do I maneuver this?

What do I do? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. And if you tell people you want to try something different, like I want to be a rapper. Forget it. Get the fuck out of here. Forget about it, man. Forget about it.

Get a job. Yes. Yeah. So you're not just fighting the machine you're fighting people that love you yeah they don't want you to be a loser yeah and and it's it's you're trying to do the opposite of that you're trying to change yeah you're trying to break the cycle of this you know this you know you you go to school then you get a job or you go to school then you go to college and then you get a job, or you go to school, then you go to college, and then you get into $250,000 worth of debt to go work a job you hate to pay off that $250,000 debt.

And it's this cycle, and that's what the cycle of this country. And the fucked up thing is, if you want to do something different, nobody's got a path for you. Like, if you say, hey, you know, I really love hip-hop. I want to be a rapper. Yeah. No one says, oh, well well that's a viable job opportunity obviously a lot of people are rappers right you can do this this is something you can do no one says that nobody no one no if you tell them you want to be a stand-up what are you fucking out of your mind you're not funny right my own mom told

me that did she wow i never thought you were very funny. All right, Mom, wait till I talk shit about you and all the people laugh. Yeah, and the weightlifting skit you did. Ma! That was me and Brian Callen. Brilliant. Yeah, but this alternative lives, like outside of the straight and narrow structure that most people follow. That's available to people. They just have to have more examples of it. It's example.

People like us are examples, and they also, there is, though, I will say this, you have to have balls to do it. And you have to be able to look at things honestly and fix things that aren't right. That shit I didn't do. honestly and fix things that aren't right. That shit I didn't do. I wasn't being self-aware at certain times. And then once you start doing that and saying, maybe this is me.

Maybe this is me. And if I change this, you see instant results. Yeah. You know what I mean? How long have you been doing it for? I wrote my first rhyme at nine, but it was like the worst thing ever. Wow. What was your early influences?

Well, my brother's brought home Suck MCs. That was 83. It was like little. I played on my Muppets turntable. And the first record where I said I want to rap was La Ti. This Cuts Got Flavor. I was like, I want to do this. And then I did, remember Candy Girl

by New Edition? Yes. I rapped on that in like third grade talent show. Really? Third grade? Yeah, my mom's got it on VHS and threatens me with it. I'm like, that's not a threat. Put it on. You don't got to threaten me with that.

When I was in junior high school i heard sugar hill gang for the very first time it's a life change and i remember thinking whoa this is a new kind of music yeah this is a new thing hip hop inhibited hip hop beat don't stop a rocket did the bang jump boogie crazy yeah i mean i remember, wow, this is a new thing. Yeah. And then when Run DMC was so hard with Suck MCs, I was like, yo, what the fuck is this? Yeah. Because Sugar Hill, I obviously love that record and changed the course of history, but they were rhyming over the Chic instrumental. But when Suck MCs just rock those drums, drums, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, you know, those hard drums. And then being from Philly, like, hearing Schoolie D and, like, you know, these hard records.

But, like, first time, like, I rhymed, like, to record something, like, 90, 91, you know. And it was awful, you know. But you just work on your craft and hope that you get to a point where people don't think you're awful when did you start getting paid um let me see so we put out an ep on our own that we pressed up in 96 and um like where i was like Like, where I was like, I'm living off rap. Is that what you mean?

98. 98. What kind of jobs did you have before you were doing that? I didn't really have jobs. I like... Just dirtbagged it? Yeah. Dirtbag shit. Yeah, for a couple years.

After high school. Just some scumbag shit and then the first check came i was like there's no turning back now man right you know what i mean this is the greatest shit ever like money from what you want to do i could buy jordans from rapping what are you talking about yeah blew my fucking mind man you know blew my mind like you, buying a pair of Jordans with that. It's unreal. But yeah, if I can die never having a square gig, I'll consider it a success. Yeah, yeah. When did you really say to yourself, okay, I'm a legit professional now?

This is it. There's no turning back. I'm 100% now. I don't have to worry about this going away i still don't think that way really i it's the fear again it's the fear of like the second i think that it'll go away you know what i mean things get bigger our office gets bigger you know the merge business grows the tours grow and i'm still the fear is is like yo um I'm just lucky I just feel lucky that I'm able to do it so I never want to think that way you know I guess I have to answer

the question if someone's a stranger says what do you do you know I have to answer it because it is what I do right and I made a lot of money and I'm good my mom's good because of it you know but I feel like the day that I I feel like that that that that maybe uh I don't know you know like the philosophy when a when a fighter's thinking of retirement it means that yes they're already retired in their head I'm sort of applying that logic like the second I say yo this is my thing you know I could play for 75 000 kids in a festival in switzerland i still i'm still still think i'm a piece of garbage you know and that's sort of like what drive it's sort of a driving thing with me you know what i mean

whereas you know historically rap has just been so ego driven i'm the best i'm you know that's the cornerstone of it when you rhyme but But some people carry themselves like that in real life. You know? And I don't want to be that, man. You know? It's like I'm so scared of someone ever thinking that humility isn't the most important thing to me. And being polite isn't the most important thing to me. You know?

And it is. And that's not really how people are in this game. Right. You know? And not just rap. Just the entertainment business, man. You'll meet an actor who's a dickhead. Right. to me you know and it is and and that's not really how people are in this game right you know and and not just a rap just the entertainment business man you'll meet an actor who's a right yo man you get paid to act you get that's a blessing yeah we're lucky to be here right here i'm just blessed to be sitting here with you man so why would i why would i be anything but appreciative of that and i don't want to think, oh, this is what I do.

You know what I mean? I just want to live in. Be in the moment. Yeah, maybe when it's over, I'll tell you. But if you don't tour, if you say you're not going to tour again, do you mean you won't tour internationally or you won't tour, will you still perform locally? What are you going to do?

Well, I just landed yesterday. From? you gonna do well the the i just landed uh yesterday from so what we did we started in baltimore baltimore new york philly boston vermont and like to to sell out your hometown man it's like this many years later you know and to sell out new york and sell out boston it's this thing that where you it's still fucking mind-blowing right you know what i mean and it's still people cheering your name it's mine but i just maybe i just maybe it's more of like sometimes people need to decompress and maybe i just need to decompress for a little bit and i'll completely change my mind and just not just not tour next year

or something you know and then maybe I'll be ready or something it's just I love walking out on that stage man

I love being out here talking to you I love I was with B-Real yesterday from Cypress doing his stuff I love all this did you do the smoke box?

I would lose my fucking brain I would lose my fucking brain what I would lose my fucking brain. What if he hot boxed you? It was just him in there. Bro, I don't have to tell you they were smoking heavy. I think I walked out zonked just being in the room with them guys. I'm sure.

Yeah, I was zapped. Yeah, he's one of those all-day dudes. Yes, sir. I can't do that. Yes, sir. I have too much stuff to do. Yeah, sure. Of course, we all do.

He's getting shit done, though. Yeah it's like real is one of those rare individuals yeah I could stay stoned but uh yeah no I just I think maybe some decompression I like I think like in Dante's circles of hell I think airports might be on there this is a load them. I hate the whole process. Right. Like checking in, like this, that. It's like, you know, people, God bless people who have that private jet money, that Elon Musk money. You know what I'm saying?

But that's wasting. You're burning off all that cash. Sure. Like if you're making $100 and spending $40 on the jet, like shit, man. You could have spent $2. Yeah, no, indeed. It's just the process, man. When you were talking about being alone in hotel rooms, I hate the hurry up and wait of the entertainment industry.

And that's what it's built around. You know what still trips me out? When I wake up in the morning, I look at the ceiling, and I don't remember where I am. Yo. Ohio? No. Yes. Philly. No and I don't remember where I am. Yo. Ohio? No. Yes. Philly.

No, no, no, no. That's not true. Yes. Yes. I'm like, yo, what country am I in? Yeah. It's fucked. It's fucked.

It's weird. It's very weird. Do you think when you take the time off, are you going to still write? Are you going to still? I'm in the studio. I write five days a week, and I record every Thursday. Every Thursday? Every Thursday.

Really? Yeah. So you write five days a week. Now, what's your process? How do you write? It has to be super late at night. Yeah? Yeah.

I really can't do anything during the day. I'm just nocturnal by nature um i just sit there with the beat blasting and just sit there yeah and let it come one bar one bar one bar until it's done so do you have like a raw beat with no lyrics and then yeah yeah so who makes a beat for you first um that i work with a lot of producers so when they'll send them and when i love something i'll go all right i'm gonna work on this tonight you know so you get the beat and then and then you sit and listen to it and you start thinking about things yeah exactly like oh what's the hardest thing uh for me is the first line right that's the hardest thing yeah um. Authors say the exact same thing.

Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, the first joke's probably hard because everything goes off of that. You know what I mean? So that line is super hard. And then I love being in the studio. I love it. That's where I would be. Unfortunately, because when we were kids, records were sold. Right. I love it the whole that's where I would be unfortunately

because when we were kids records were sold right so you could be like I don't want to tour I'm fucking we're the Beatles we sold fucking

100 million records we don't have to tour they just decided they didn't want to tour in like 67 and they never did again yeah you know what I mean

but it's everything is generated monetarily through touring merch you know what I mean so it everything is generated monetarily through touring, merch. You know what I mean? So it's like the grind is there. I don't like to feel like my hand is forced ever because that's when it starts. That's that square world.

And I never want to feel like I'm obligated to do something. And that could be some of my animosity towards touring. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you know, this is what you do. This is what you have to do. You know, go out this many days, this, this, this. Like, it's just, it just fries my brain, man, you know?

Obviously, all this shit takes a physical toll on you, but it fries my brain where I'm, like, just completely zonked. Like, walking through life, I never, like, um, uh, walking through life. I never, like, I never see anything. People are like,

how was blah, blah, blah. How was the Louvre? I'm like, I never saw that shit. You know, like,

how was the blah, blah, blah. You deal with the same shit, man. It's like, oh, how was,

I never saw shit, man. Nothing. Right. Ever. No room, venue, hotel room, van or bus or whatever. know what i mean yeah it's and repeat yeah it's like rinse repeat you know and people you know people

like i said like i think it just the entertainment business in general it's there's a there's a perception that it isn't work because it's not the work they do. Yeah. Like, try working on a car all day. I'm like, try driving 15 hours with someone who smells like balls in a tour van. But you'll take it, though, right? I mean, you'll take it over a regular job. Of course, man. Now, when you write, do you write with a pencil and paper? Do you write no when you write do you write with a pencil and paper do you write in your head do you write on a computer how do you write i uh

i wrote in a rhyme book it's like a spiral rhyme book for you for all my adult life and then i started not being able to read my handwriting because i i write like a graffiti writer and i'd be like what's this word so now i go i what I do I go it over my head when I have enough when I have enough I'll type it out you know and then like go over my head go over my head type it out now it's like clean and organized which is not me on any level how long you been doing it that way really recent like how within a year really yeah and do you write like on Microsoft Word or something like uh I don't even know what it is. It's just like a note thing on the computer.

It's called like Notepad or something. Okay. Yeah. Like on a Mac? No, a PC. But writing five days a week and going to the – and recording every Thursday only started when I stopped the heavy drinking. Like everything changed. Like, everything changed. Yeah.

Everything changed. Because you don't want to be creative when you're hungover. No. You want to sleep. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, like, I recorded more

in the past two years than the previous ten. Yeah, man. Wow. Yeah, I have tons of music recorded. Maybe it's not all great, but it's recorded. And I'm writing. I have clarity on a lot of levels.

Is there any window that you could see opening up where you could make money from the actual music itself? Because this is, I mean, the last couple of decades threw the music business on its head. But there's streaming services now. And Jamie was just talking about the thing that Steven Tyler was talking about. It's called MM. Music Modernization Act.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing where they're trying to get these streaming companies. Correct. Because they're giving you a pittance. Well, Pandora, there was a Pandora that just sold for billions of dollars. And it's like, what do you do that you're worth billions of dollars? What you do, you distribute other people's art. You don't really have anything.

And don't pay them. Yeah, you don't pay them. You make all the money. To say pennies on the dollar wouldn't be enough. I'm not exaggerating. It's less than that. enough i'm not exaggerating it's yeah it's less than that no um i'm not sure if either one of you guys saw the tweet uh from um uh crosby from crosby stills and nash i didn't see it uh it was like a breakdown of what he got paid from you know how huge those records were something it was like

55 or something something for like 200 million streams. And then Peter Frampton responded to him with another screenshot. It's like, here's mine and I have one of the biggest records ever. Peter Frampton comes a lot. And they were going back and forth and like people in the industry were retweeting it because

I mean, these are guys who are A, older and B, richer than we can ever imagine. And they, it's important for people like them to speak up. I repeat, the streamers don't pay us for the damned music that we made. In all caps, don't pay us. This is David Crosby. He's got a few tweets that are similar. Yeah, there's one with the actual numbers.

It's stunning, and I don't understand how they're getting away with it. I don't either. I don't either, and I'm not powerful enough to do that. That's why dudes like him. At one point, Taylor Swift pulled all her shit, and I was like, that's great, because she's huge. That's an important statement, you know what I mean?

It's like, if you guys weren't getting paid correctly from a streaming service for your stand-up and someone like eddie murphy spoke up that's important yeah uh a fucking a hack and schenectady tweeting about it's not gonna help you i won't let them put my podcast on they and they've been trying to do it for years and i'm saying no yeah like what do i get out of it right of course they're like well it's just another way for people to get your, you know, there's a lot of people that are listening. Like, there's people who are already listening. Right.

I don't want to. That shit happens to me. Well, you do this. No. And they're blown away that you say no. Yeah. And again, that's why I think you're punk rock. Whether you do it or not, you just say, fuck you.

Well, I just understand what they're doing. They're thieves. Yeah. And they want to put ads on it. And the most recent thing is that they'll give you some money, but not compared to what you're making. Right. What are you going to do? All you have is other people's work.

Right. Other than that, you just have a station. I feel bad for people. You've built your own everything. You're your own entity. I've done the same thing on a smaller level we're we're we're outliers bro like some people really need that shit you know you know what i mean like well they get stuck in the system and then even worse they become a part of some sort of a network where they have a bunch of executives telling them what they can and can't do

sign those major label deals that are you know in the videos with the jewelry and shit. None of that shit real. It's either fake. It's rented. Those cars are rented. Yeah, I know. You know what I mean? There's dudes still living in the projects, and they're in those videos with Lambos.

Yeah. You know? It's like perceptions become reality through social media. So people think, like, you have a rented car and rented jewelry on that you're worth this. And I'm like, yo, you don't know the fuckery that that label offered them. He's got a 360 deal.

They're taking his merch. They're taking this. That's what's crazy, that they take your merch and your ticket sales. Yes, that's those 360s. The music company that doesn't have anything to do with you performing, they take a piece of you performing.

Yes. Yes. And these things are offered to me. And I'm like, yo, man, I spent my entire life building this. And you want a piece of the pie that I baked for no reason. Yeah. I'll share with anybody. But what's the reason for it?

Well, you've got to be offering something. Bring something to the table. They're not offering you anything. They're not bringing anything to the table. What are they saying? That we can make you bigger? We'll get you on the radio, which nobody listens to anymore? What are they saying?

Right. Who listens to the radio? Not me. Is there a big radio station these days that anybody listens to? Not that I'm aware of. I mean, I know they still exist. I know Hot 97 is still in New York, but I don't know if anyone listens to it. Well, where do kids find out about music now?

It's got to be through the internet. Yeah, the interwebs. I asked a kid, a young barber was cutting me, and he was like, what are you doing? You're a musician? You know, he casually got into it. I was just making conversation. I was like, how do you listen to music? He was like, Spotify, Apple Music, and SoundCloud.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, I don't use any of the three of them. Yeah. But it's good to know. You know what I mean? It's like I listen to your podcast on a podcast app on my phone. You know what I mean? And I'm assuming that's what people do.

It's a little bit easier to track, I suppose. But again, it's like the Peter Frampton and David Crosby thing. Like I said, it was some number that's outlandish, like 200 million streams or something. 50 bucks. Yeah. How is that legal? Criminals. How is it legal?

It shouldn't be. They rigged the system. They did. They had to figure out a way to quantify it the same way record sales would have been. Right. Like, when we went to the fucking store, when we went to Tower Records or the Mom and Pop store or whatever. Here it goes.

That's it. Recent numbers per scream. Napster was Rhapsody. 0.019. Tidal, 0.0125. Apple Music. So get your song played a million times and get less than $5. Seems fair.

Yeah, that's it. That's what he said. That's fucking insane. A million streams, you get less than five clams, man. That is insane. That's such a small number. It's so small. YouTube, 0.00069.

What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that? That's fucking insane. That's 160,900,000th. That's a hard word to say. 100,000th of a dollar.

Can you even quantify that as money at that point? But what does anyone do when they're faced with this sort of information? Like, is anything going to change? And if it does change, what are they going to do, double it? That's what I mean. That's my worry. It's still $10. That's my worry, that it's being brought to people's attention, and it might go to the big government might get involved.

How much is that going to shift? Right. Well, it seems like the artists can't pull their music. The music is owned by the record companies. The record companies are going to play it, and they're not going to pay them the same they would pay someone who is buying it. Right. I know Taylor Swift pulled her shit for a minute on some making a stance, but however

it was rectified, she put it back up. They gave her money. Probably. I'm sure they gave her money. Yeah. Yeah. They give people money. Yeah.

They're giving people money for podcasts too. They give you money for exclusive use of it for a couple days or something like that. Like for two days. Yeah. Something along those lines. Or they want to put their own ads on it. Right. Something along those lines or they want to put their own ads on it. Right. Something along those lines.

But people can get your podcast. You don't need to do that. No, man. You're just letting someone make some money off you for no reason. Absolutely. Absolutely. And what we do, it's like we control our shit. Why would we give that up?

Yeah. Tell me why. That's what they need to do. Tell me why I would give up controlling my shit to you. Yeah. You can why. That's what they need to do. Tell me why I would give up controlling my shit to you. Yeah. You can't. Right. There's no logical explanation unless we're talking fucking money.

Do you own all your music? Yeah. Yeah. See, that's nice. That's nice. And there's not a lot of people that can say that. No, because, you know, when you sign with a major, they own your masters, man. So it's like you can't do it.

on your masters man so it's like you can't do it you know if i want to uh you know an album of mine that came out in 2010 say in 2020 i want to do a 10th anniversary edition on blue vinyl and all that kind of cool shit i can't i don't have to ask anybody you know what i mean it's just like right it's like direct to consumer shit is basically what I'm doing. It's how my merch companies run. I try to do that as much as possible because that DIY aesthetic is important to me. You know what I mean? We grew up with people and they seemed untouchable. Rockstar shit, superheroes. You know what I mean? And I would like to sort of bridge that gap where it's like,

no, come up and say what's up, man. You know what I mean? Let's, let's talk. How are you? You know,

what's your name? Um, do you still sell actual physical CDs anymore? Yeah, we do because there's a niche audience, man. That like, how many people buy them?

Is that like, it's like well see i press vinyl i press tapes before but just to be just to be cute yeah yeah i like to be cute joseph nah uh yeah tapes vinyl cd vinyl sells the most really yeah people love vinyl these days right yeah it's a big comeback. CDs still? They're the most. Honestly, right now, today, tapes are more popular than CDs. Whoa.

Yeah, it's just like a nostalgia thing. It'll probably go away. But we discuss not even pressing them. Wow. Yeah, that's how much. I did because I'm old school. But we discuss not doing it. But vinyl's still coming in strong.

Yeah. Do you buy into the sound difference? I do. Yeah? Yeah. But I buy into it with, first, you have to start at the source. If it's recorded amazingly, if it sounds shitty, it's going to sound shitty. I'd rather listen to the Beatles on vinyl.

I'd rather listen to Thin Lizzy vinyl i'd rather listen to you know rather listen to thin lizzy on vinyl metal stuff like i mean a lot of a lot of hip-hop you know kids have a a mic and a laptop in the bedroom and that's the that's the recording studio yeah you know that's not going to make any difference it's going to be what it is you know what i mean but bands who care i i it's it's warmer like if i listen to stevie wonder records they sound warmer warmer yeah yeah i've heard that expression before yeah i don't know really how to articulate it but in my head i know what it means just the bass lines and drums everything sounds warm to me can they replicate that is it possible some people can um with electronics to a degree you still need to you still need to get analog to a degree you know what i mean there's still a few studios in the

country that do shit on reel-to-reel because that sound you can't right you can't ever fully replicate it you can get close but you need to go to a reel to Real to really get that sound that we loved. Yeah. Now, what about Apple Music and people buying things on iTunes and things like that? People still do that, right? Yeah, but that's dropping, too. Yeah? Yeah.

Mostly streaming now? It's so stream-dominated. Because even when people were doing that, like buying albums on iTunes, buying albums digitally on Amazon, or whatever someone's preference is it was sweet it was good good money all of that and then the streaming shit like because logically if you're a casual music fan you pay ten dollars a month for spotify for every album that's ever been recorded right can you really blame the fan right you know what i mean and their ways of the ways of ingesting music are so different.

Like, I loved opening the vinyl. I love reading the thank yous. Right. I love the smell of the fucking cassette tape. I loved all that. It was an experience going to the store, being on the bus with the headphones on the first time you hear it. Yeah. You know, I can tell you where I was when I bought Nas-O-Matic.

Right. Where I am. I can tell you all that. That's dead. The experience, it's boom, bong, now I have the album. You do a comedy, I got the new Joe Rogan album. Right. Two seconds with a click.

That's a weird thing to me. Yeah. You know what I mean? I guess it's not weird to them. Remember those stores you would go to where there was little stations where you could press a button to listen? Of course. A preview of all these different, and people would just stand there all day.

All day. Listening to music. All day. That's the only way you could get it. And if they didn't have them, you were buying shit and guessing. Yeah. You know how many bad shit I bought? Just look at a cool album cover.

This album cover's great. Let's give it a chance. Yep. I bought metal albums with a badass cover, and the band was just terrible. Yeah. You know what I mean? Did you see Sugar Man? Yes. How crazy is that movie?

Fucking crazy. I don't know what's crazy. The story or that he got big in Africa. It's just a bad shit crazy. That movie made me cry. Me too. Bad shit crazy. How insane that this guy went on to become like a laborer for a construction company. Had no idea

that he was a superstar in Africa. Insane. And then goes there as an older man to a sold-out stadium, and they all know the words. It's beautiful, man. That is one of the craziest documentaries of all time. I agree. Search it for Sugar Man.

If you haven't seen it, folks, you've got to see it. It's brilliant. Well done. Yeah, and that's a different era, too. You know that guy gave all his money away? I do. Another insane thing. He's brilliant. Well done. Yeah, and that's a different era, too. Yeah. You know that guy gave all his money away? I do. Another insane thing. He's the real fucking deal.

He's the no fucking joke, man. Yeah. I mean, he still lives like he lived when he was a poor construction worker. Yep. Whoa. It's an elevated way of thinking, man. Yeah, I think he just got so used to being in that space for so long. And his fucking music is good, man. good it's really good i think sometimes man like when that's brought

on you you're still more comfortable in that other way yeah you know some people don't want to they're not comfortable embracing that yeah you know, whether it's wealth or fame or a mixture of both. I just think he was like, I'm good. I'm content. And there's people with billions that aren't content. What's more, there's nothing more important than being good with yourself. And he seems good with himself. Yeah. That is one of the scarier things is someone who's insanely successful, but never satisfied.

I think a lot of people are like that. That's one of the things that I was saying about Trump. Like, if you are 70 years old and you have billions of dollars, why are you still working? Yes. Do you think something's going to change and you're going to live forever? Right. Do you have no perception that you literally are on the last finger full of grains

in your hourglass. It's all you got left. And you're not spending it on a yacht in Acapulco, getting your dick sucked to Big Pimpin' in the background. What's the mechanism in his head that's driving this? I don't get it. I think about that about Warren Buffett. Yeah, right.

He keeps you going. He's like 409 years old. I don't even know how much money. Well, he's a real weird one because he still lives in fucking the middle of nowhere. Yeah, he's a strange bird. In a regular house. Yeah, and his suits always look like they were just pulled off the rack and weren't tailored. Yeah.

He goes to Terrence Crawford fights, though. Always. He's always there. He was hanging out with Floyd one night. It was funny. Yeah, he reps Nebraska. Yeah, hard. Yeah.

He's an interesting guy. He's super interesting. Yeah. Yeah. But listen, man, we just did three hours, believe it or not. Thank you for having me, my friend.

My pleasure, brother. I'm glad we finally got a chance to do this. Me too, man. It means a lot. I've been a big fan for a very long time. Me too, man. So thank you. Tell people how they can find you on Twitter, Instagram, Boxcutter Pazzy on Instagram.

Yeah. What is Twitter? It's Vinny underscore Paz. And website? JMTstore.com. Jedi Mind Tricks. Everything's on there. Thank you, brother.

It was awesome. Thank you so much, Joe. We appreciate it, man. Thank you, man. See you. What's the matter? My audio fucked up. What happened? I don't know.

Oh, that was great. Oh, man.