The Joe Rogan Experience - #1217 - Nimesh Patel

Episode Date: December 19, 2018

Nimesh Patel is a stand up comedian and writer. In 2017, he became the first Indian American writer on SNL.

two one fucking kids today fucking kids today fucking kids today hasn't everybody said that from the beginning of time i bet k people were saying that shit uh-huh you know it's just it is what it is, right? Every new group comes up. They try to reestablish themselves as smarter. You know, there's the new group coming up. They're going to change the rules. I don't know what's so wrong with how we turned out. You know what I mean? Oh, we're a mess.

I mean, I'm saying that from a, like, I mean, every, I think every generation is better than the next in terms of how, like, things, this is the best times I've ever been for most people. Right. But I'm saying from, like, how we handled things perspective, things seem, I'm like a fine human being. You seem like a fine human, like, most human beings are fine. And we were raised quite, I don't want to say differently, but a little better in my perspective than what's happening now. What is being corrected is strange to me. To people that don't know the story, let's fill them in on your story and how we got together. You're doing a gig.

You're at Columbia. A few months ago, I got this group called the Asianian american alliance at columbia university hit me up saying hey you know we're big fans of your work um i was the first indian to ever write for snl um and so they were like that was a story in the asian american indian community and so they hit me up in like may or june like hey come we have this show in november it's called culture shock um it's a big like fashion culture kind of event and i've done like tons of these before you know because my sister and i we both went to nyu but my sister um like helped put on these kinds of shows so i would attend them and like i've seen them ever since high school because i went to

high school in parsippany new jersey which is like a hyper diverse kind of place um at least with like asians and indian people and like I went to a few in high school I got late after one of them when I was in high school so they had like a my lost my virginity after one of them so like it was like they held a special place in my heart and so I'm like I went thinking okay this is going to be fun and and they know who they're getting in that you know the email said we're fans of your work like we want you to come do the show it's about like representing Asian identities and all that I'm like dope and that's I get there at like 7 30 and I walk in and I'm like okay I know all these kids I mean they're like 20 or something but like I know them I grew up with these kids you know like Abigail's and Prateek's or whatever like I know all these guys right and immediately my comic

hat turns on I'm like okay the show itself the energy is dope but the show like acoustically i'm looking okay this is a high ceiling the lighting shit uh it's not set up for like a comedy event but i still think okay this is gonna go well 8 30 8 45 i get on stage um and i'm like i do some columbia stuff because i went to columbia for like a summer program i start making fun of the kids a bit. And I say, do I have to give like a trigger warning? Almost like joking. Like, do I have to give a trigger warning?

Because I know, you know, that's a thing. And I say, like, be careful. Some of this might be sexist. Some of this might be racist. You know, just buckle up. And one girl boos. And I'm like, you're booing? Already?

It's like two minutes in. And I'm like, well, look like well look this is i literally said i just listened to the set the on the way here and i said uh well buckle up you know because this is the real world or whatever and then i go into material and about and it's going well this is one story i want to dispel like i i will fully own a bomb you know if i'm bombing i know i'm bombing i will tell you i've bombed before a billion times i'm doing fine 60 70 percent of the set 17 minutes in i tell the joke where i say um effectively you know i don't think being gay is a choice which is i don't think

it is at all uh but this is how you know because there's gay black people and no one's gonna choose to be gay if they're already black. Right. No one's doubling down on hardship. That's a funny joke. Thank you. It's a funny joke. Thank you. No one like no black dude ever wakes up and thinks, you know what, this black shit too easy.

I'm going to put on a Madonna halter top and some Jordans and tell an Indian dude how to live his life. That's not a choice. You were born that way. And that it bombs like this silence really complete silence and then i say uh you're exactly who i expected to be as a crowd and then i say uh um the only person that chooses this is also what was imprinted is that the the offensive part to me what i think is offensive is the next part where i say the only person that chooses whether or not to be gay on a daily basis is Mike Pence.

We can all agree that I don't know if he's gay or not, but no man hates homosexuals that much. If he himself is not a homosexual, he chooses not to be gay every day. And that gets some laughs and applause. And I'm like, okay, cool. And then I get back into it. I'm rolling for about another two or three minutes. I start talking to some i do a joke about uh how my dad landed in newark when he uh immigrated to america some girls from newark

she interrupts i start talking to her for like two minutes and that goes terribly it's just like i'm trying to i'm going fishing with her just trying to see if i can get back into what is she interrupting i say i'm heckling or is she i say i say a joke where i said my dad landed in newark um back when he landed it was called brick city because if you hit if you looked at someone wrong they'd hit you with a brick right fine kind of throwaway line this girl goes that's not true i'm like well yeah i'm like obviously you know so i'm just i'm just kidding uh but like i i know where she's what she's trying to do i'm just trying to talk to her and i'm going trying to talk about like trying to get back into material um and that's like probably minute 20 or something

and then out of my corner of my left eye i see the three girls that invited me to do the show initially in may or june like gather and i'm like that's kind of strange i still talk to this girl for like another 30 seconds and then as i'm concluding my talking to her because I realized that's not going to go anywhere they come on stage with microphones and like one trench coat and they're just like they're like it's time to literally say there's been a change thank you Namesh has been a changing program um you know we've received some comments from members um you know uh we think uh that's enough how long have you been on stage for uh 20 something minutes at this point and it was that one joke that did it so this is so i go i'm like

i'm first i'm like i'm i'm not even mad at this point i'm just like in shock i'm like this there's like an episode of impractical jokers i'm just like what what are you talking about i still have 45 minutes left um i'm slated to do an hour i'm like really what and they say yeah there's been comments like people are upset or offended and i'm like i feel like we're having a good time and some of the crowd cheers and then i'm like why do i gotta go and one of the girls goes the tech has to leave and i look at the tech has this is all on youtube like someone put the youtube video out of this particular part and i go they better be leaving because i can see i can see the tech people and i'm look at him like you you got a

bounce dude and so the tech people meaning the people that are coordinating the electronics that yeah the broadcast the show exactly like whoever's running i think i'm like i don't need tech i'm i don't have fucking pyro microphones on yeah what do you mean the tech has to go? The tech people, they're coming up with lies. Yeah, I mean, I understand why she lied because she's trying to save face and try, I guess, not to embarrass me or whatever, but I'm like, I'm not going to believe that shit that all three of you came out to be like,

the tech has to go. And then I go, is it because the tech has to leave or because I'm saying some things that made people uncomfortable? And one of the other girls goes, we think there's a distinction between being uncomfortable and being disrespectful. And I'm like, don't use your big words on me. But in my brain, I'm like, what are you talking about? I don't think I've been disrespectful at all.

And there are some people who are like, what the fuck is going on? Majority of people are like, what the fuck is going on? But there's a pocket of the crowd where the three Asian American Alliance leaders and the rest of the crew was waiting. And I think some of them cheer when there's a distinction between disrespectful and being uncomfortable. I'm like, I haven't been disrespectful in the slightest. What are you talking about? And then one girl goes, we think you're not entitled to be making some of the jokes you're making.

And I'm like, my trigger word is entitled. You know, like I'm thinking, and at this point I'm like, I'm too almost in shock, deer in headlights kind of to like even process anger i'm just like now i'm just trying to assess what they're specifically saying like which joke specifically and they're like we think that gay and black joke um uh is particularly offensive or whatever and i'm like and then at this point i'm like instead of explaining that the joke is quite progressive i'm like i literally got that joke from an audience member at stand-up new york in like 2011 like i remember the conversation distinctly because it was such

like one of these sort of oh shit that's a good bit moments right and i tell them that and they were like you got it talking to a guy in the crowd so i was on stage and i used to live in hell's kitchen um in new york and i'm and in New York. And there's a gay black constituency that would always make fun of me when I was leaving my apartment. But like ribbing me, you know what I mean? Right. And so I'm trying to talk about that on stage at Stand Up New York, doing a check spot or whatever. And I'm talking to the crowd and then there's a gay black guy that heckled me. And I start talking to him.

And then at some point, I'm like, this is how you know being gay can't be a choice, right? And he starts me and i started talking to him and then at some point i'm like this is how you know being gay can't be a choice right and he's he starts dying and we have like a good rapport i'm like oh perfect this is a great bit that i just got right right and so i tell them that and they're like no you know there's been a change you like you have to go and i'm like effectively i'm like like you're wrong for doing what you're doing right now i'm i'm i'm a generation older than you guys i know comedy better than anybody in this room that's for goddamn sure and i know disrespect and i've been through a lot of shit like i know that what i'm saying right now uh hasn't been offensive in the slightest and i say you can't isolate yourself from the real world

like this what are you going to do when when some real bad shit happens in the world? If someone actually does something that's offensive, you can't handle things this way. If you silence someone, that's not progress or whatever. And then they asked me if I have closing remarks. Whoa, you have closing remarks? Closing remarks. You should have prepared some. It's hard to come up with closing remarks out of nowhere.

On the spot, I tried to save it it i tried to save it with a bit you know and it fucking bombs and i'm like all right and i just i'm like i'm still talking and then they cut my mic and i'm like really i'm like really really you cut my all right and then i'm like all right thank you well put the mic down and i bounce and then they to, then they won't even let me talk to them backstage. Like one member's like, we got to escort you out. I'm like, you're going to escort me out? I'm a six foot one Indian dude. Like I don't need escort from you, tiny person.

Like I'll be fine. I'm not here to fight anybody. Even though I was, this is just not the move you're going to make. So are they escorting you out because they want to kick you out or are they worried about your safety like no they want to escort me out because they want to take me out right right right and so i go to um where i have a camera crew there because i'm trying to film every hour that i do and i go to them and i'm like what the what just if you watch the youtube clip i'm like on stage like look at them i go to them i'm like and then some of the members from the alliance try to uh uh talk to me um like we're so sorry

that that happened like uh you know that's not all of us or we don't know what just happened and i'm in my head i'm like thinking so much for the alliance part of this whole thing right like i thought we're the same people i'm flesh if you know like we come from the same place so there's no other jokes they found offensive? That was the only one? That's what they said. There's two or three things that said, or articles, which I made the mistake of just reading everything. Don't ever do that.

Don't ever do that. I read everything. There's two or three articles that say I was badgering two people in the crowd. And there's like one girl who like maybe two or three minutes in like i talked to her for crowd work like i asked where she's from what she's doing whatever and she she gets up like she stands and like shows herself off to the crowd i make fun of her for a little bit and then this other girl the one the new work chick that is like we get personal because she reveals that you know her father's not in her

life with the conversation just gets awkward it's, you know, her father's not in her life with the conversation just gets awkward. It's not, she revealed that her father is not in her life. She was, I'm talking to her. I'm talking to her. Like, uh,

um, I was like, what are you, what are your parents do or whatever? And she's like, she's like, I don't know what my dad does. I'm like,

what do you mean? He's like, oh, I don't know him. I'm like, oh, you, but you don't,

he's not in your life or whatever. He doesn't. And she's like, yeah. I was like, okay. I can sense that she's uncomfortable now to the point where i asked her i was like are you uncomfortable and she said no i'm like okay cool i could like make this worse and and then i'm like but i won't you seem like a nice person that's when they came out but the the people are apologizing to me and i'm like i'm now i'm mad now i'm like once i leave the stage i'm now i'm

livid but i'm i know myself well enough to be like i'm not going to talk to anybody if i'm angry because i'll just say some wild shit like i don't i thought i could have billboard philadelphia the whole thing you know what i mean this just went off on all these people for like 10 minutes what the fuck is wrong with us but i just went i was like go. Like, I'm out. I took my crew and we just walked straight out of this fucking giant hall. And then, like, I'm waiting for my car and people from the show are, like, apologizing. Not, like, just audience members. Like, yo, we're so sorry. That was fucked up.

That shouldn't have happened. You were doing great. Whatever. And then, like, I get in my Uber to my next my next show after this i have to do another hour at another show and where are you going next ucb east and lower east side from from columbia to lower east side it's like a 30 40 minute ride and we hop in the car and like i'm like first i text my agent i'm like this just happened and's like, do not say shit until you get paid. I'm like, that's probably the right move.

Because I'm about to just fucking Instagram something. That's a real agent. Yeah. He's a man. Protect the shekels. Yeah. Do not say shit until you get paid. I'm like, you're right.

Smart man. And I'm just like in my head like mad listening to like Drake. Just like I got to let enemies that I'm just like fucking everything that I think is wrong that we hear as like a narrative of like kids are soft. All this kind of shit is playing like, yes, that's what it is. Like, and I'm thankful that my crew was there because I'm venting to them because if they weren't there, I'd be on some other shit. to them because if they weren't there i'd be on some other shit and but as i'm checking my instagram because i'm like this is definitely going to be a fucking story on instagram at the very least i'm like people are dming me from the show like yo we're so sorry that that happened that's so fucked up uh people are emailing me the same shit i'm like was anybody saying fuck you you

shouldn't have been there in the first place no no. No one said that to me. One girl who was the suite mate of one of the organizers DM'd me and just yelled at me, basically. I wrote to her, thank you for your support. What did she say? She said, let me find it. Saved it? Dude, my DMs just blew up. Is this Twitter or Instagram?

Instagram. My Instagram's not up. I deleted it from my phone. You deleted it from your phone? I check it in the morning and then I delete it. And then I check it at night and then I delete it again. Really? I just fucking hate.

When I was at SNL, I worked on Update. I was constantly on my phone or on Twitter or on Instagram just checking news, reading shit. It annoyed the shit out of me. I hate the news. Lo and behold, I am the news now for a bit. But like I fucking I hate the news. It's all bullshit.

And like being in this cycle. Right. Has confirmed my belief that it's all fucking nonsense. But she effectively says, I hope you learn your lesson of respecting what you were hired to do and respecting strong young women. Check your fucking ego. And I was just like, I was like, it took all of me not to just be like, just eviscerate. Because I'm like, I'm good with, I'm not good at a lot of things, but I can, I can eviscerate somebody in an Instagram DM. And so I didn't, I didn't say shit to her

besides thank you for the support. But all these people are messaging me like, yo, we're so sorry that fucking happened. And like, I'm like,

all right, I'm not totally fucked with all these kids. And I go to this show at UCB East and like, I'm taping the hour, an hour.

So I can't even process what just happened because my instinct is to just talk about this immediately but I can't because I have to tape this hour and so I get off stage and the hour goes well and as I'm leaving UCB East

three kids that were at the show at Columbia had come down from Columbia and followed me to UCB East and they came up to me and apologized in person they're like we're so sorry that happened like we love your set like we don't know what the fuck is going on and that took me that gave me like a beat to be like all right you know like maybe maybe everyone isn't this way maybe it's just the people that have the fucking bullhorn that get to just say whatever the fuck they want and silence people that are like the minority, but they're like the vocal minority.

Whereas like all these people that are like actually on my squad are not as vocal as they can be. They're more like quiet and a positive person. And so the next day, I don't think anything about it, but like columbia newspaper hits me up like i get off i leave columbia at 9 30 the columbia newspaper hits me up at 10 0 5 p.m like hey do you have any comment i'm like comment i'm hungry how's that for a comment like i don't well i'm not gonna talk to you right now let me fucking process what's going on the next day i'm still thinking about it but i'm going down to open for Aziz in Atlantic City and open for him. And I'm telling him the story.

And he immediately hits on the fact that it's crazy that these kids came up to him and apologized. And I'm like, I didn't even think about how insane that is because I'm still mad. But I'm talking to these kids. I'm talking to these kids like i'm talking to these i'm just like that is kind of crazy because it's so easy to buy into the shit that everyone is a fucking soft motherfucker and then i think about it some more and then i think about like all the gigs i've done college-wise before like in the past year i've been lucky to know i did like texas i did a school in alaska i did a school in Ohio. I did a school in Maryland. And I've said much more offensive shit, like anti-Trump shit in the fucking red of states.

And it's all been fine. You know, like I've never been kicked off stage before. And so to me, like this Columbia incident, even the students there seem like the exception rather than the rule of like everyone's a soft person you know i mean does that make sense it doesn't make sense but what i think is is young kids in particular that are in a position of power right they're running something they have this idea of how people should behave that they want in their head and when you don't fit that that mold then they just decide to be outraged yeah that's what happened here you look at the context of what you said first of all you're a

comedian right you're obviously a guy who jokes about shit right so that's not a you're not saying anything negative about black people you're not saying anything about gay people right you're essentially admitting that it's a hardship i mean we all agree that black people experience racism and gay people experience homophobia everybody agrees that yeah so that joke makes perfect sense and it's funny thank you i mean it's it's it's stupid what they're doing is stupid it's like but that's normal man dude that's been going on forever i stopped doing colleges a long time ago like the early 2000s i did a college in florida and i remember thinking these they don't know enough like this is not fun

like the only reason why i would do this is for money because colleges pay a lot of money yeah but they don't know enough they're they're i mean they should if they if they're 18 year old kids and they get to a club that has an 18 year old-old limit where you can get in at 18. They should do that. And then they'll be with other 30-year-olds and people with life experience. I don't want to perform at the whim of children. And that's what these are. These are children who are engaging in recreational outrage.

They're deciding to be outraged. Yeah, that's what it felt like with them particularly it felt like like i grew up fine i grew i didn't i didn't grow up rich but my parents had some money for a bit before things went no like we're average middle class people but like to me it's like i've been through some life and so i know when people who haven't been through life get upset about shit it's always like the thing with Texas and Ohio and Alaska is like, these are like the kids of blue collar people, the people who have been through some shit and maybe not even just blue collar,

but people have been through some kind of life where a life experience where they know that things aren't just like words can hurt, but for the most part, they're fine. It's like when like your fucking dad loses his job well it's also it's the intent of what you're trying to do yeah like what are you trying to do you're trying to get laughs you're telling jokes and trying to get laughs that's what you're fucking hired to do yeah they take the context of uh people forget that comedian

is a job that like i'm here like it's not who i am as a human being necessarily i'm i will go for funny first oh yeah funny over everything well you're a fucking new york city comedian right you have to right it's the only way it works it's so it's so crazy what people i think i don't know if kids have changed or whatever no no they haven't changed they just think that this is the thing to do now look when i was in when i was uh doing colleges way back in the day i was in my 20s i did a college in connecticut and right after i did their college i i was talking to the kids i would do i would do my set and then uh i would like open up for q Yeah. Oh, fuck's going on my throat. But it was, I was probably 24, 25 maybe, maybe 25 at the oldest. So I was just a couple years older than them.

Okay. And so it was fun for me to talk to them about what life is like when you actually have to pay your own bills and you're out free. And some guy goes, you know, you got and you're out you're out free and some guy goes uh you know you got like i was doing the question thing and some guy goes uh i go you know i i lift his hand up he goes tell a joke i go tell a joke and i go two jews walk into a bar they buy it it's an old fucking street joke yeah street joke. After the show, the show goes great. I say, thank you.

I really appreciate you guys coming out. It was really a lot of fun. Thank you. Good night. So afterwards, I would always hang around and say hi to people. And there was no picture taken back then because you had to have an actual camera. Nobody had a fucking camera. Oh, that was a long time ago.

A long time ago. I'm 51, so this is 90, 91, 92, somewhere around that. So this one guy comes up to me. He goes, the joke you said about Jewish people is very offensive. And I thought he was joking. I go, are you serious? And he goes, yes, very offensive. And he's, like, nervous and shit and, like, has a hard time looking me in the eye.

And I go, dude, I go, think about what the joke says. It's about Jewish people being really good at at business right walk into a bar they decide to buy it it's such a there's nothing offensive about it at all it's like you know what's crazy is like it's like people now and maybe forever have always heard shit and they immediately think this means if i'm thinking something bad about this that means that someone is not even that they're thinking bad about it. They've decided this is a taboo subject, even if you're not even saying anything negative about it. Like, say if you do a joke about interracial relationships.

The best kind. Interracial relationships, just say it. If you just do a joke about that. There are people that are going to put red flags up instantly and look to misinterpret anything that you say on purpose. Because they don't want that thought in their head They don't want the thought of You know like this guy's looking for anti-semitism in that joke to just walk into a bar they buy there's none there You could look all day long. It's a joke about Jewish folks buying stuff, right?

There's nothing confirming a positive stereotype yes it's like a big dick black guy joke yeah it's not negative there's nothing negative about it nobody gets upset that you think they have a big dick right unless they have a little dick unless they have a little dick it's a lot of letdown but it's it's young people that are also flexing right they're free from the control of their parents and i find that you're dealing with that more in rich or upper middle class families because I think they're more hands-on with their kids and more controlling. And those kids get free. They want to exert their own freedom.

And when they get free of their parents, they want to establish that they're different and that they have their own mind. And we're a part of the new generation. And the new generation is not going to tolerate racism, cis-hetero activity. And they just decide that they're going to fucking put their foot down. But it's a pattern that repeats itself over and over and over again. It's just today they have social media. And this is the difference. The difference is they feel like they're empowered.

Because they get online and other morons that are the same age as them confirm with them you can just confirm any belief that you want like that's another lesson i've gotten from this is just like confirmation bias is like the wildest shit ever you can you can be like there's one lady who wrote some shit i'm anti-gay and anti-black and other people i'm like in the comments yes this is clearly this is clearly what he was saying i I'm like, you took that from my set? Me, I'm anti-gay and anti-fans. I don't think there's a solution here. Yeah, I've looked at this hard for a long time.

No, we need safe spaces for comedians. There's no solution because you're dealing with immature people in terms of literally the development of their frontal lobe. They're not fully formed yet how much do you think of it is like i put it in my the op-ed that i wrote but it's like i was thinking about like how much of it now is a function of the fact that like we immediately

get whatever we want in our hands you know i mean like there's instant gratification so there's like instant kind of thought process where there's no real thinking that occurs. It's more just like, this comes into my brain. I hear gay black. This has to be. This is wrong. It's coming out. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, if you say gay black on stage today in a really liberal, very progressive environment. You get this thing. But you have to say something like pro, super pro gay and super pro black and it it doesn't even have to be a joke right like you're better off just going for that applause break move comedian i mean people want gross people want their comedians to be their leaders that's what that's what it feels like they just want to laugh no people i'm when i people, I mean like this next group of comedy. Oh, these kids you're talking about? Yeah, the people that were at the show.

But they don't because the comedians that are going to be their leaders aren't even going to be funny. They're going to fucking die. They starve to death. You get. Once you get out in the real world, fuck, man. If you're not funny. You're fucked, yes. You're nothing.

But like it's like if I went up there and I said, Asians are the shit, and fuck Whitey, I would have been out on the fucking chairs. They would have carried me out. Like, this is our motherfucker. You know what I mean? But that's the thing. I think people want... I'm not a hero, man.

I'm just trying to be heard, you know? Well, you're a comic. Yeah. You're trying to be funny. Yes, that's all it is. This is a... I really believe that this is just a symptom of growing up. And you're just giving these people the power to express themselves where there's no mature, wiser person that's around them that says, hold on, let's look at the context of what

he's doing. Right. Let's examine what he's doing and then you're going to apologize to him because this is clearly a fucking joke. You hired a guy to tell jokes. Right. He tells jokes and you say not that joke right you know this specific thing is strange because they're like everyone's like he did not respect what the event was i'm like hey i'm like what i mean i'm not this i'm not your mascot here right i'm not this is not a

pep rally dog i'm here to tell jokes you weren't hired to do a speech about this event right i'm i'm not this is not a pep rally dog i'm here to tell jokes you weren't hired to do a speech about this event right i'm here to do your act my fucking act i don't think they understand how long it takes to write an act it's that's the that's like another conversation though i'm like comedy is fucking hard work you think i'm gonna just go up there and just yeah i mean we were all out last night i ran into into you. You were at the improv as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, dude, we're grinding, right? It's fucking...

Throwing shit up there, trying new bits. It's tough. Recording things, listening to them. We're like, oh, this didn't work. Now I got a restructure. Now I'm going to go back and try to figure out how I can make this gay black joke better. The problem is the gay black joke, now everybody knows it. Everyone knows it.

People are now going to go, do the gay black joke. Gay black. Hey the gay black joke now everybody knows it everyone knows it people are now gonna go do the gay black joke gay black hey gay black people are gonna start cheering for it gay black gay black

gay black my friend my friend started a hashtag challenge which I hope no one picks up the knee mesh challenge where if I'm on stage

somewhere you just come on stage and rip the mic out of my hand oh don't you fucked up you just fucked up don't do the mic out of my head. Oh, don't. Piece of shit. You fucked up. You just fucked up.

Don't do that, please. You definitely should have said that on this show. Woo, good luck. Good luck in the next six months. Oh, Christ. This is, I really don't think this is a big deal. I just think this is, there's a reason why all these different comedians have been saying, I heard John Mulaney said this recently, and I really love John Mulaney.

Yeah. But I completely disagree with him he said the reason why comedians don't do colleges is nothing to do with political correctness that's due with the money that is not true no he says that because his act is really good and really clean you can essentially do his act anywhere yeah it's an excellent act i mean and but there's other guys like that like brian regan he's got an excellent act he could do colleges anywhere. Gaffigan, yeah. Gaffigan, yeah, anywhere.

The reason why they don't do colleges is because the kids are too fucking sensitive. That's 100% the reason. Do you think that they don't make money at colleges? You don't understand how much colleges pay. They pay a lot of money. It's not, I think to a lot of comics, it's just not worth the hassle. It's not worth it you know like if if i didn't need the cash and i was like uh uh jerry you know if i was whatever like the the two and a half weeks that i've spent like reading the news and getting back of answering

emails and getting back into this shit of just like they said what like if i didn't i would easily give that up but here here's the flip side. This is probably one of the best things that's ever happened to you as a stand-up. Oh, yeah. That's what I was saying. Gigantic national attention. The two things every comic has said is, one, do you get paid? Yes.

And two is, good press, right? I'm like, you fucking pricks. But it's true. No, it's great. And you're gonna feel The same way After time has sort of Soothed the wounds over

Oh yeah Right now it's still Raw and fresh And you're still angry I'm still getting shit From comics Like that's my That's been my whole

That's been my favorite Thing about all this Is just comedians Like talking shit But like One of my friends Posted on Facebook He said

I mean who among us Hasn't wanted to snatch The mic out of Nimesh's hand It's just like Pieces of shit Like let me live man yeah but you would have done the same thing oh of course we can't help it of course the bomb heard around the world my comic friends it comes fuck you guys dude jeff ross who set this up jeff jeff is the one who uh connected us but yeah shout out to jeff ross jeff said something that i agree with so

wholeheartedly he said i'm almost a comedian before i'm an american yeah he said that on this right yeah yeah and i'm like yeah yeah it's like this it's a rare person there's only dude how many of us are there in the whole country is there even a thousand like real legitimate working ones i don't know man how many headliners? Is there 500? Is there legit five? How many would you pay to see? Is it 100?

Yeah, that's a good question. I might pay to see 100 dudes in the country, maybe in the world. Let me be honest. Yeah. I might pay to see two dudes outside of the country. It's like international acts. Yeah. Fine.

Lovely people. Good luck with that yeah this shit's america it's it's i guess yeah i mean i agree with jeff wholeheartedly like it's like we're it's also like what he said about uh um the instant you see a comic from a even if they're like in england or south africa you see it you you immediately have that kinship you're like yes you're a comedian it's like you ever watch uh comedians and cars when when chris and uh jerry do it i've never watched it oh it's great i mean i just like i like i like some of the interviews that he does but chris and jerry have a moment where they're talking about uh going to a party and seeing each other and chris comes up to jerry and just goes comedian you know like the only two people that know each other yeah and it's like that's the

kinship that i think you have as a comic. But I forget what we're talking about. How did we get on this? Well, we're just talking about guys giving you shit. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the best part. It's just like motherfuckers being like, you bombing motherfucker. You know?

Yeah. I love it. I love it. New York is special in that way. New York's extra mean because it's cold. Oh, it's fucking brutal. That's what it is. LA out here, people are, first of all, they're trying to get acting gigs.

They're kissing ass and they're being fake. And then on top of that, it's warm all the time. Did you start in, where'd you start? I started in Boston. Boston, right. Okay. Boston, New York, LA. But I've been to LA.

I've been, I mean, if you wanted to look at it on paper, although I always consider myself a Boston comic, i'm more of an la comic than anything i've been out here since 94 oh shit yeah yeah i was thinking about the other day you're a 30 year guy yeah 30 years 30 years in stand-up that's a long time man it's your life your whole life as a human you said you were on stage at college in 1990 i was four yeah it's crazy that's fucking i think it was 92. Now that I'm thinking. Or 90. Yeah.

Somewhere around 92. But either way, it's a long ass time. And the crazy thing is, dude, you still keep learning. Yeah. Like you still keep learning. Like I'll still have a weird set and I go, ah, why did I do it that way? Yeah. Or I'll have this idea in my head.

Let me flip this around and it'll fuck the whole joke up. I'm like, ah, why did I say rescue first? I should have said that later. Yeah. God damn it. That goes back to how much work this shit is. It's just that you forget how fucking much time you got to invest. I got two new babies right now.

Not real babies. I have real kids, but I have two new comedy babies. Even better. And I'm watering them. Yeah. Like right now, they're like, ooh, I got to give them some light. I got to make sure they get the right fertilizer.

Like right now, I have two bits. One bit that's one day old. I did it yesterday for the first time. I've been working on it for a couple weeks. I knew there was some life to it. Yeah. And I sat down, I wrote it out, and I said, okay,

I'm going to freeball this shit last night. What's your process? I have, over the last three or four years, four years, since, actually five, since I did my Comedy Central special in 2014, I decided to change my process right before that because I decided that I needed to do more specials because I went from, I did one in 2009 that I really liked,

then I did one in 2012 that i have asked and then i said okay because i wasn't doing i wasn't at the store anymore and i wasn't doing weekly sets so then i realized okay there's a there's a very distinct process in terms of the work that you have to do first of all you have to go up a lot like you have to go up at least three or four times a week yeah excuse me, three or four days a week. And I would like to go multiple times a night. And I like to go to different environments. Not just the store. I like to do the improv.

I like to do the ice house. I like to do different environments. Then I have to write right. Like sit in front of a computer and write. And I like to do it high and I like to do it sober. I like to do it both ways. And George Carlin had an interesting method that I think I'm starting to adopt because I've been doing it a

lot lately even though it's subconscious where I write out concepts sober and then I fire up then I spark up a joint and then I go over it again when I'm high like The structure's already there. And then I'll start putting the funny. Then, after the writing part, there's a lot of going over it and thinking about it. I try to give it a little life before I bring it to the stage. Then when I bring it to the stage, I write it out on paper.

I have to write it out on paper because that's how I remember where my bullet points are. Then recording, always. And then review of the recording. Then re always and then review of the recording then rewriting after the review of the recording this process is like this is my process yeah and when i do it that way i feel better i feel excited like last night i came home i wrote till 2 30 in the morning i came home at 12 30 i wrote for two hours and by the time i'm like falling asleep in front

of my laptop i shut the laptop I know I'm done But I feel good Like I'm getting it in I know it's happening Like this is all live shit Working out Yeah and I go to bed I feel good

I go to bed I'm like yes I'm like this is alive This bitch is alive And you wake up And it's the first thing You think about Like oh yeah

I got this fucking I got this new bit Oh Yeah Let me tag that Last night I did it for the first time Last night

And it did well At the comic store, but then it crushed at the improv. I'm like, woo, this motherfucker's alive. What was the bit? The bit is about old people getting STDs in nursing homes. What the fuck, yes. That is a phenomenon. It's a new thing. It's a new thing that's happening.

Why not? I mean, just fucking throw your dick around if you're 85 years old. Exactly. Because no one needs condoms. You ain't getting pregnant. Exactly. Exactly. But then there's this other bit that I'm working on as well that's a little bit older about the dude from the missionary that got shot up by the arrows by the uncontacted tribe.

Of course. My people did that. That's what happens, dog. They came from Africa. Yeah, step up, dog. They lived in an Indian island. But they immigrated from Africa 60,000 years ago, uncontacted tribe. But the point being that the process for me,

it's the most important thing, I think, out of all this stuff, what it's really about is about focus and attention. Focus and attention, thinking about that. But the work in terms of breaking it down, there's a bunch of things that i think comedians don't do that they really should do and the number one thing is writing actual writing writing like sitting in front of a computer or notebook and writing yeah most comedians like to just have a bit and they work it out on stage and they know how it worked, and then they improve it the next set.

And especially if you're doing, like, the New York City trip where you're doing, like, the cellar, and then you're doing the stand, and then you're doing all these different sets all around town, and you're doing little short 10-minute sets here and there. Like, it's easy to just kind of keep working on it, just keep working on it. But I think that it's critical to actually sit alone with the material and just look at it. Look at it and try to go, how can I make this quicker? What's a sneakier way to do this? Or what else is in this that I'm missing? I think that for me, I write now.

I just started doing it. Up until probably a year ago, maybe eight months ago, I was of the brain where I was like, I'll write a note note i'll write a bullet lit a bullet point or whatever and i'll try to work it out and then i'll write something that i think is interesting as a joke but like i saw you know opening for aziz and working with hasan like working with people that are like crushing it their process is like fucking they're maniacs when they're like you were just like yes i have a codified process this is exactly i'm gonna do it this is what's worked for like 10 15 years or however long i've

been doing it and once i saw like that process i'm like oh these motherfuckers i think i work hard but these guys work fucking crazy hard and it's like sort of emulate that process of like i gotta set aside at least 20 30 minutes a day where i'm like literally right even if it's's the same thing over and over, it's just like, okay, how can I fix this? This word doesn't need to be there. Like, and then I'll say it in my apartment to myself, like, and I'll try to do like how I would do it on stage. Cause it's like, I'm my comedy. I try to be conversational or at least make it seem conversational.

So it's like, how can I seem relaxed while doing this but still emphasize the right word for that's the punchline or whatever it is yeah and now that process like and it's all repetition now when you got to repeat the process to make it a pro otherwise this is a thing you did once and so now that's that's what i'm starting to do now just physically fucking getting up and you're like okay this i gotta write this bit out even if it's a bit i've done a billion times like there's something in there that I gotta figure out yeah another thing to do

that really works well to sort of get it in your head is a cork board to have a big old bulletin board and put index cards on that are the titles

of your bits and then I would put like index cards underneath it that are like the bullet points of that bit oh kind of like a storyboard for like a movie

kind of shit yeah and you step back and look at them and then try to see if they make sense in order. Like maybe I should flip it around. Maybe I should do the bit about the guy getting bit by the dog before I do the bit about the monkey. The difference between being bit by a monkey and a dog.

Well, maybe it's better to introduce this distrust of animals in this way. Who knows? It's about attention, though. That's's the thing it's attention and focus and these guys you're saying that work really hard it's not a coincidence that those guys are killing it yeah i mean there's something to it and there's also the the recognition when you do start killing it like oh shit this is rare like i'm in a rare spot i'm filling up these gigantic places people coming out to see me i'm doing netflix specials you got to work harder now yeah you got to keep it up you got to keep it up and you got to realize that you are like bill burr said something once that i think

was really really like dead on the money he said i know what it's like to be disappointed by someone that you go to see like you go to see a band because i remember going to see a band when i was a kid and they half-ass it and you like you feel fucked over he goes i don't ever want to do that to my fans yeah i was like aha yeah that's it like realize that you used to be a fan and i'll think of your fans as like what you how you would experience you they don't want someone phoning it in yeah you know because that's their night right that is their night they came out to see someone they love and so you gotta fucking earn that love almost yeah yeah and tickets are expensive and they had to work to get those tickets a lot of people doing

jobs they fucking hate and and cutting back on other things to have enough money to go out and have a few drinks yeah yeah it's a there's a there's a responsibility to it but there's also a lot of people that try to skirt that responsibility Because the pressure of that responsibility is kind of overwhelming You think about it, it makes you nervous And you just start, you fuck off And you half-ass it But that's like college, right?

It's like cramming for tests There's a lot of people that study all year long And there's a lot of people that half-ass it Up until the last minute And then they just try to shove it all in all at once It's a weird kind of confidence that you need or delusional. Delusional. Delusional confidence where you're like, I'll be fine fucking.

And I admit I've done that a few times where I've just been like, fuck it, I'll work this out. It'll be straight. But like the times where I've like fucking sat and been like, this is the bit I got to do. I got to make sure I hit it to the point where I'll just bring the notebook on stage and just be like, okay, I got to sure this this goes the way i want it to go this is an old expression how you do anything is how you do everything or how you do everything

is how you do anything and that's there's something to that too there's there's something to like not allowing yourself to think of yourself as someone who's a fuck up yeah because as soon as you think you're i'm just a fuck up you get that in your head man and then and that's like the default setting almost where it's like that's easy to do it's human beings are like i think people are hardwired to work but it's also very easy to just not do that and like believe that it'll be fine or or fuck this up like it's a pressure alleviator. Because you put these expectations on yourself of success. And there's a lot of pressure involved in meeting those expectations. And one of the best pressure relievers is just fucking up.

So you lower your own personal expectations. People drinking, doing all that kind of shit. Well, just sabotaging your life. There's a lot of people that will sabotage their life. They start getting some success. And then the panic overwhelms them. And they'll just start taking pills or go fucking crazy. I'm going to lose this. I'm going to fuck it up.

Yeah, I know that mentality. It's really normal. Yeah. The psychological mind fuck that goes on when you're attempting to do anything, whether it's stand-up comedy or I guess it would probably be the same with almost any art form, stand-up comedy or i guess it would probably the same with almost any art form you're especially open-ended art form where you don't have a boss who's telling you hey you know you got to get this fucking project in at three o'clock yeah you know like if that's that's the crazy thing is like you forget like or like what people don't know is that comedy is the most entrepreneurial endeavor there is you fucking there there's and that's why everyone thinks they could do it

because there's no capital investment to fucking it's all just mental investment and hard work and well everybody thinks they can do it because they do most of it see most of it is just talking yeah so like i could talk i could talk how come i can't talk like i've made people laugh i can do it i'm funny at the office dude i'm funny all the time i'm gonna do stand-up like how many people have you heard say i think i'm thinking about doing stand-up and you're like oh god i'm like good luck man you know because some people i'm like i know they have the work ethic to do whatever the fuck if like if my friends were super successful in most other endeavors like that they do like finance or doctors or whatever apply the same work ethic to comedy they might be successful if they're funny but a might be successful if they're funny

but a lot of people think they're funny and then just forget that fucking the work part where it's just like yo fuck this is slave shit yeah ain't no one and there's no one whipping you the only one no one but yourself yeah it's just yo get the fucking work done it's also you're the writer the producer and you're the actor you're the person who does the whole thing the marketing expert you gotta know all the above yeah it's all fucking you it's a weird gig and you have to be a self-starter because if you're not the type of person that knows how to motivate yourself and get out of bed and get things done you'll just fucking lay around till three in the afternoon then you'll go eat a sub and have a

cup of coffee and and then my sets in two hours i think i'm gonna take a nap yeah yeah and then you feel like you did something because you wrote some shit in your moleskin right before you went up doing a lot of writing lately one moleskin three years yeah with fucking 10 10 words on it yeah yeah it's it's uh there's not there's no fucking structure to it either in terms of like, there's no education that you can get other than self-education. You can't go to, if you want to learn how to play the cello, you can take lessons. Yeah. Someone will teach you how.

I mean, there's a real clear process between being a symphony violinist, going to school, getting an education in music, becoming a symphony violinist. know like going to school getting an education in music becoming a symphony violinist there's auditions being asian yeah that helps there's a lot that is offensive get off the stage you said something about an ethnicity it must be bad i mean there's no real clear process to becoming a stand-up comedian. Everybody's like, what do you do? You go to an open mic, figure it out. You're on your own. Everybody just wants you to get it.

Tell me how you go from doing comedy to becoming a writer for SNL. Is there a shortcut? Oh, yeah, yeah. If I call this number and say abracadabra. This is Lorne's number. You tell him one joke, and if he laughs, you're hired it's dead then you're in yeah yeah there's no there's no way to teach someone how to be a comic either that's the other thing like the way you do jokes is different than the way jamie would do jokes or different than the way you know fucking judah freelander would do jokes

everybody's different man yeah and there's no one no one who's right like if you went over judah freelander's act and went no man you're doing this shit all wrong you gotta he's gotta have actual punch lines you're just saying a bunch of shit that's not true right you gotta stop this judah's very fucking good he's hilarious the man he's hilarious but his act is uniquely him yeah you could never teach anybody how to do that. No. Like, that act, he had to figure that act out on his own. And he's developed it so well.

Yeah, I mean. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah, I think, like, with comedy, the hard, the crazy shit is, is that everyone thinks they could do it in the sense that, like, oh, I could tell a joke, and I could. Sure, a lot of people can tell a joke. My mom can tell a joke. My dad, everyone can tell a joke, because it's sure a lot of people can tell a joke my mom can tell a joke my dad everyone can tell a joke because it's written and shit but it's so hard to cultivate who you are because that's you're also doing that yeah you're like trying to figure out oh i got a

bunch of fucking insane shit in my brain and this is how i think it i gotta figure out how i'm gonna say it that's not necessarily how everyone else would say it but this this is how I feel about it, and I'm going to say it that way. And then you have to take into account the economy of words. You want to sneak it up on people. You want to get the idea into their head before they've figured it out on their own. Yeah. So like, boom, it pops, and I'm like, ah!

Like, that's right! Yeah. It's like a little race. You have to figure out a way to introduce it in a way that's unique and captivating and entertaining but also quick enough to get into their brain before they figure out where you're going yeah because the worst thing is when you see a guy on stage you're like oh i know where this is going and then he gets there and then a few people go ha ha ha ha because they're fucking stupid what took so long man i was there yesterday dog yeah i saw it coming

from the moment you unless they can say it and you see it coming it still hits you because it's so good it's so stupid that just has to be really good writing and a good delivery and a good idea you know but it's also on the other hand i mean we're talking about how hard it is it's also the most fun shit of all time when it works oh yeah when it pops off when you had a have a new bit and you have that pause right before you deliver and you're like and i told him that's not real and then ever goes back oh i gotta hear the beginning of this yeah you know what i mean it's like you you hit these punch lines and the whole audience laughs and roars and they're having a good time and it's one of the greatest feelings in life it's because because you you know but you don't

know until it comes out of your mouth and you're like oh look what i did there well it's also you're making people feel good yeah like there's something about looking out you know you go to the improv last night there's 190 people in that room and you're looking out into the audience and all these people are having a great time they're laughing and having so much fun i got all your numbers i got all your you know what i mean like i got feel you i know what you i know what you say i know why you're laughing at this i know why you're not laughing at something i know who you are a little aspect of who you are because you're laughing at this bit and what you've been through and you're giving them a good feeling yeah you're giving them a good thing it's a good exchange like they came to see you like they sat down they're willing to let

you talk in front of a microphone raised above them on a stage right this is a very unique arrangement in human beings yeah that this person this person like, please welcome Jamie Vernon. He goes up on the stage, gets up there. Hey, everybody. And this is, it's an exchange. It's a unique contract where you're like, okay, I'm going to give this person who has a microphone 10 minutes of my time, my precious time. And in that 10 minutes, you've got to make me feel better about my life. Yeah.

That's nothing or escape my life or whatever it is people are seeking. Well, you're making them feel good. Like, when I go to see a comic and they kill. Like, say Dave Tell goes on stage and he's killing. I'm feeling better. Yeah. Because of his laughs. Yeah.

Because of his jokes. When he's cracking jokes about things, I'm like, ah! Like, I feel good. It gets in your body. They're giving you a little drug. Yeah, I mean, we're drug dealers. Look, if you could get a drug, if you could go to the 7-Eleven and it was an over-the-counter thing. Why are you saying 7-Eleven, man?

I don't know. It's a convenience store. That could have been a big faux pas. I'm offended. Okay, store 24. I'll go back to Boston. But you could buy something over the counter and it was a laughter drug.

You could just take a pill and everything would be hilarious and funny. God, everybody would take that. It's the greatest feeling ever. You could laugh at something and you think it's really funny. And nothing happens to you. There's no negative side effects to anything.

Your girl might be mad at you if you laugh at something you're not supposed to laugh at. What are you going to do? Yeah, that's funny. When you see girls getting upset and guys laughing. My favorite, because you could, like, even last night, you could see the couples. And you tell a joke. even last night you could you could see the couples and you tell i told a joke and i could see what girl is looking at what guy versus what guy is just like laughing it up you know i i have a fiance now but we got engaged like three or four weeks ago and i do this bit about her where i'm

just like um uh one night she got mad at me because i closed the door too loud because she was sleeping and i was drunk and i came home i just accidentally closed the door and i was like that's how you like the bit is i say um you know there's two ways to close the door as a man there's a regular way just close it like you've been taught your whole life and then there's another way if you live with your girlfriend you come home late she's sleeping you got to turn the doorknob push it into the frame and then release it so it doesn't make a noise or your relationship might end and you see guys just go and girls going we told you that's how you gotta do i'm just like that to me is like the best where it's like i know everything that these motherfuckers are going through in this fucking moment and they're and like they're gonna go home

and talk about see i told you that the door shit was too loud you know that's the fucking that's my favorite part of doing any bit where it's like you could see a couple just react to some shit well i feel sorry for people that don't have a job where they can be creative i really do i think whatever you're doing whatever it is if you're a person who enjoys creating things it's one of the most rewarding feelings of building something that wasn't there before. Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's there, and you made it.

It's like, it's very hard, like, completing an act, like if you, if you start a set, have you recorded anything yet? Like a special?

No, no, no. I did a spot on Seth Meyers in like July of last year. That's your first? My first on camera. Oh, okay. On TV thing. How was that?

Was it weird? No, I mean. He seems like a nice guy. Seth is a man. I love Seth. I mean, I met him before because at updates. So he came upstairs and like hang out, would come hang out with us. The show itself was great.

You know, the process with the booker there was like very simple because they're like big fans of comedy. Like Seth is obviously a fan of comedy, but the lady that books the show is also a big fan of comedy so i was a bit nervous just because like my first time going on in front of like millions of people whatever whoever people watch that and i was just like i gotta make sure that my writing and my jokes come off as fucking strong as possible and it went great you know there's obviously some people trolls like talking shit on youtube but for the most part everyone's like you keep reading those dark man it's fucking it's so

tough not to it's it's so tough well you're smart with the thing that you're doing with the instagram where you delete it every day and then i can't redownload i got it i got to check like uh if anyone's hit me up for a gig or some shit but otherwise i'm just like i fucking hate just don't look at it man that's what i do i just don't i mean you just develop habits yeah you know like but the problem is it's an itchy thing like you start you get itchy check real quick just take those times and just go over your notes yeah when you get itchy and you want to look at your phone like who who said this someone said it someone said it really recently oh god i don't want to i want to fuck it up somebody said this in a tweet i want to say it was ted alexandro no mark normand was mark norman he he he went up after i did i did this i did uh talking about columbia at one night at the cellar. He went up after I did this.

I did talking about Columbia one night at the Cellar, and he went up after me and immediately goes, I don't know why the writing knee-matched up now. He's been bombing for years. Piece of shit. It crushed. Of course it did. Leveled the room. Norman's funny, man.

He's a man. He did a joke about how checking Twitter is like opening up an empty refrigerator and hoping that there's something new in there. And there never is. You just go, fuck, let me check again. There's nothing in there. It's like that same feeling. I botched his joke. I ruined it.

But I got it. But that is really what it is. It's this weird compulsion. yeah that is really what it is it's this weird compulsion this instantaneous gratification thing that you're getting off of some weird dopamine hit by by touching that device and and getting information to pop up but it's not satisfying there's nothing there's nothing yeah you've been ever been a safari a safari yeah no in africa you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. You got to go. I went in April. I spent, all my SNL money is gone on engagement ring fucking. Safari?

Safari's expensive and I don't mean to sound fucking. Were you in one of those open air Jeeps? Yo, it's like, that's when, up until like April, I went in April, I was just like, not addicted to my phone, but like using it too much more or less. But in Botswana where we went obviously, there's no service or anything. I'm just like, fuck this shit. And, like, the week, even though it's just a week of not, like, being on this thing, I was just like. It feels so much better. You can think.

Yeah. And, like, the whole time, you're in an open-air car and just, like, out and just, like. car and just like out and just like when's the last time you drove for like an hour and there was nothing but like noise or like animals and shit you know i mean there's nothing but just like you with the air and just like hanging out just thinking shit yeah um i hunt and uh every year i do three or four trips where like for a week i'm basically lost in the woods disconnected it's the best yeah it's the fucking it's but what's interesting even in the hunting world a lot of people are like instagramming while they're hunting and they're doing insta stories while they're out there in the forest yeah it's good when there's no connection when there's no service and no connection

it's good you could just leave this shit away i broke my phone when i was in hawaii and i was there uh i was on lanai which is a kind of a remote island it's hard to get things there and so i um i just kept dropping my iphone i dropped dropped that shit like 10 times and i dropped it and it all just started making phone calls i go hold it up it just i go i'd open up my contacts i go watch this and i was showing was showing my wife. It just starts calling people. And you hang up, and it starts calling another person. Great bug. It starts calling another person.

Hang up. I just broke it. It was just jacked. And so I had to order a new one. And then it got to a point where it wouldn't let me input my code, and it wouldn't recognize my face. It was like it was dead. It was just fried. It took three days to get one. So for three days, I had no phone. And it was dead. It was like it was just fried. It took three days to get one. So for three days, I had no phone.

And it was great. It was great. I felt better. I felt better. Yeah. I was walking around. But then I was like, I can't wait to get my phone. Yeah.

Why? I feel good without it. Everyone around people you love, the people you need to reach. It's like you're not missing anything. You're not missing anything, but you feel like you are. Yeah, yeah. I got to check Twitter. It's like, you're not missing anything. You're not missing anything, but you feel like you are. Yeah, yeah. I gotta check Twitter.

It's like, I gotta go on Instagram. We're addicted to it to a point where it feels like cigarettes in the 50s where it's like, no one.

Here it is. Mark Norman. Social media is like looking in the fridge over and over. You know there's nothing good, but you check it so many times that eventually you start

consuming things you don't even like. Yeah. Oh, even better. There we go. Great tweet. Leftover butter. 2,630 likes, son.

It's going to go up a lot now. Yeah, probably. But, yeah, it's – and my real fear is that this is one stage of a complete connection to electronics and to each other that's unhealthy and unproductive and unavoidable. Because I don't think that we're going to end with social media like Twitter and Instagram where it's like you can just press a button and get it. It's going to be completely connected to your brain. We're going to have that fairly soon.

I feel like within the next 10 years, that's going to be a normal thing that you could just pull up information instantaneously in your brain. It's almost like the phone, the watch thing feels almost like- Are you wearing a digital watch? No, this is- That's a regular watch? This is my dad's Rado from like 1980 something. So they make such cool digital watches now.

A lot of them look like that. Yeah. They look cool now. now yeah but that's i think the next step is like oh i can just do this i don't even gotta what's the problem you it's like you can't reach in your pocket to check your shit i got an iphone watch whatever the fuck they call that thing i watch and uh i wore it twice yeah i was like what am i doing with this thing i don't even like it buzzes oh okay cool this person texts me you still gotta fucking go on this thing to say yeah i'm right this it's enough a phone is enough i mean the only thing that's good for is your heart rate it like monitors your heart rate when you run it's good for that

it's good for the wrist thing yeah okay cool watch and it also logs the amount of time and miles that you put in and your your heart rate variability all that stuff. There's some good aspects to it in terms of a fitness tracker. But other than that, it's like. What an end. What are you doing? Yeah. Where's it going? I don't run, so lucky for me.

When Elon was on the podcast, he was talking to me about his Neuralink thing that he's going to be coming out with. He said back then, and this was, what was that, three months ago? Yes, September, I think. Yeah, somewhere around three months ago. september i think yeah somewhere around three months ago he said that they were going to be coming out with it within four to six months so that's any day now so i don't know what the fuck this is but he said essentially it's gonna it's gonna open up the bandwidth between you and information it's going to radically change the way human beings information uh it the way human beings access information it's like a internet

thing you wouldn't tell me oh my god that's all you would tell so neural link neural link yeah because it's on you know we were on air when he was saying it yeah but you i oddly trust him to be a phenomenal a net positive for the universe oh 100 you know it's like like zuckerberg and like other time like a net that's a net negative force like they are the reason they're a lot of the reason why society has gone the way it has like because you can confirm whatever but elon i'm like yeah man why not fucking build a car that you don't need any gasoline for why not fucking send shit to the space whatever you know like yeah i think he's a net positive for us no i'm 100 convinced he's a net positive i think he's a legitimate genius and i don't think there's a lot of them yeah i think mark zuckerberg is a smart guy who's very

ambitious i think there's a big difference yeah and when zuckerberg's quote that i read recently that what's good for the world is not necessarily good for Facebook. I'm like, that's it. Shut it down. He said that? Yeah. It's over. Burn it to the ground. Pull out. Pull out.

Pull out. What the fuck did you just say? Bitch, how much money do you have? Jesus Christ. First of all, don't you have like $18 billion? How much more do you need, bitch? You're sitting over here talking about what's good for Facebook? It's not necessarily good for the world. You got all you got all the good for 18 fucking hundred lifetimes yeah

jesus christ he said that that's crazy exactly that my favorite zuckerberg joke uh we were i was at we were at update and this is when zuckerberg is uh uh being grilled by congress yeah and when he's sipping water like this. Yeah, and Chris Rock comes by and he goes, you know what I didn't like about that trial? There's nothing worse than watching someone being grilled by Congress when there's no stakes. Nothing happens to Mark Zuckerberg, even if the shit goes worse for him.

Nothing happens to that guy. That's my fate. I'm just like, nothing happens to that guy. That's my fate. Like, I'm just like, you never think about it that way, where nothing happens to him if even if Facebook blows up. Well, here's what could happen. If Facebook intentionally colluded, if there was some sort of proof that they received some financial compensation to lean one way or the other is that is that was it's percolating right now no but it could be uh-huh this is what they were searching for what they're searching for is what they were trying to find out how is it that these russian bots are able to disseminate propaganda so readily and so easily and so efficiently what are you doing to stop that

how is all this stuff propagated like where's this coming from yeah and the people that were asking were techno ignorant and that was part of the problem yeah they kind of was like so like it was like um google makes the iphone right you see that shit recently they're asking to google so how come my niece has got bad words on her iphone and someone has to tell him google doesn't make the iphone the whole place roars like when you can get congress to laugh like everybody's laughing at what a fucking idiot you are yeah these are the people that are asking the question that's terrifying exactly you need you need people from like aris technica you need people from like you know uh c net you need people from

you need fucking techno guys yeah people men and women who really understand technology should be throwing those questions around asians yeah and people with autism you need people that really truly understand what the complications are, what the ramifications are, and what they could have done to prevent these things. I think that what happened with Facebook and what's happening with Twitter and a lot of these other things is no one anticipated the impact culturally

that they were going to have. I was talking about this the other day with Sam Jay, maybe a few months ago, about how it's the democratization of information and how easy it is to pretend like you know what you're talking about that's like the majority of the problem like facebook twitter all this shit because it used to be all you you needed infrastructure to spread news you needed a fucking truck you need a factory now you don't even need pants you could just fucking you just got to put like a weird fucking eagle on your website and it's like this is the fucking news now you don't even have to

have a website all you have to have is a popular twitter account yeah there's a lot of people out there that have popular twitter accounts and when you go to their twitter account and i i there's quite a few people that i follow that i don't follow and what that means is i bookmark their page so they don't even know that i follow them and then because they're fucking insane i don't want them sending me dms and i'll go and read their stuff and they are on there all day yeah man all day they're doing battle against the good and the bad the dark forces and the light they're just fucking going after it and they they develop these sort of uh news portal pages. Yeah.

And you don't even know who the fuck these people are. You don't know anything about them. But their page, it's all battling. And I follow people that are like hardcore right-wing people that are just battling the left. They're hilarious. It's so strange, man. They're so silly. And then I follow people that are hardcore lefties that are battling the right. Everyone's a Nazi and everyone's alt-right.

You're alt-right for it. It doesn't matter if you support every fucking single liberal principle there is. The craziest shit about this whole Columbia shit is that I was featured on Breitbart. They finally like a brown dude. I'm like, I cannot be. i got emails from people at fox news like hey do you want to come on this show they like that dinesh d'Souza guy right yeah they're like fucking i i hate that guy i was about to say something bad i just can't stand that motherfucker well he's the only brown guy that made it through him and him and fucking bobby jindal like they're

trying they're trying to turn me into this motherfucker i'm like i'm not coming on your fucking tv show so you can use me as your so you can't everything's gone amok and pc put i wish free speech was under attack because like some people need to shut the fuck up you know what i mean like there's too there's too much shit everyone has a podcast you know like yo show me you you don't deserve to speak a lot of times fucking it's crazy tell everybody get a pot to take get a podcast but know show me you you don't deserve to speak a lot of times it's fucking it's crazy tell everybody get a pot to take get a podcast but now i stopped because uh first of all i don't think i don't think you can anymore i think over the last like few years it's getting so saturated that it's almost impossible to break through yeah on top of that it's like some people

i don't want to you don't You don't need Everyone's opinion Right About it Like you You should have to Fucking work to develop To have the right To have an opinion

About some things Well you should You should You definitely should Have a good opinion Yes Like it should be Something well thought out

Nuance There's no nuance Anymore either It's because Everything's got to be Black and white Especially with a lot This younger generation Where it's because because everything's got to be black and white especially with a lot this younger generation was like if something's not black and white it goes fucking awry for them because they want it to be black and white so they'll

create a false narrative where it is black or white yeah that's one thing you see a lot today where people pretend that someone is something and they they do this reductionist thing where they boil it down to one thing yeah you know he went on stage and said anti-gay, anti-black jokes at Columbia. This guy's a piece of shit alt-right fucking doorway. He's a portal. Yeah. He's an Indian portal to the alt-right. That's who you think I am?

You're a magic carpet to the alt-right. Hey, man. I wish I could just be offended all the time yeah you can see how very hard to hurt my feelings well you're a comic yeah it's but like it's just so crazy find me a comic it's easy to hurt their feelings and they fucking suck they suck you have to it's fucking but what i was saying is like with this alt-right shit is like everyone wants to put somebody in their own agenda. This reductionist shit of just like this is how I feel about it and look at the points that make me seem smart and correct about this. Yeah, and they're trying to do that online in front of everybody.

Instead of like this internal examination of their actual feelings and how they really think about things and whether or not they make sense or whether or not it's objective. and how they really think about things and whether or not they make sense or whether or not it's objective. Instead of that, they're broadcasting this in this sort of weird way that's at least partially intentionally deceptive. Like the acknowledgement that there is nuance, that there is, you know, life is fucking complicated and ideas are complicated, especially ideas in terms of, you know, when you're talking about this cultural sort of battle that's going on right now between, I mean, they're attacking people who are like clearly very left wing, but for not being left wing enough. Yeah.

They're running out of targets i i did what bothered me someone hit me up saying you haven't spoke out against the white supremacists and people that are harassing uh this group and these this blogger that's going off like what i'm like first like of course i didn't do not support any white supremacists anybody fucking going after these kids for whatever reason what kids are they talking about the asian american alliance like the asian american alliance posted some shit on facebook and like all these fucking crazy people have apparently been like talking shit to them and i'm like that's i don't subcon don't know i condemn that action

but second of all does my mere existence not testify to the fact that i'm not i'm not pro you're not pro white yeah what the fuck look at is my name nicholas patterson you know i'm fucking nemesh patel's most indian motherfucking name i could think of and like like i'm gonna call up someone at the kkk but hey hey guys yeah i'm on your side yeah thank you. That is hilarious that you have not denounced white supremacists. So they've decided that you haven't acted enough. Sometimes there'll be a story online, and I'll get a tweet where someone will say, your silence about this story is deafening. I was like, what fucking story?

Bro, I don't even pay attention to half the shit. I can't. I can't keep up. I cannot. Someone had to tell me that that was happening before i was like oh okay that's fucking whack i'll respond some way also i want to think about things before i respond yeah you know when uh the louis ck thing went down i got a lot of angry tweets one of them from a fucking journalist that i've done stories with i've done

interviews with this guy before and he was talking shit about comedians that have not denounced louis ck yeah and i'm like hey man i just like you don't know what really happened i don't know the whole story yeah i know what he said and i know what she said and uh the whole thing seems to me like a big old clusterfuck even okay let's let's put it this way like he like you can denounce his actions if he said he did all the shit that he that he's yes you that's gross yes i think what he did was incorrect and wrong but the fact that like he you should denounce that he should uh not be working again i'm like you forget i'm also a comic, and B, murderers make parole, dog. Like, the fucking, you got, where does it end almost? There's some things that you should be way more upset about.

How about Hastert, the guy who's the Speaker of the House, who went to jail for fucking kids, and he molested a bunch of kids, and he only got 15 months. What? Yeah. That's, I didn't even know that. That's crazy. Yeah, exactly. But meanwhile, everybody's ranting and railing about Louis C.K.

Right. Not that this diminishes what Louis C.K. did. Right. But I'm saying there's some real horrors in the world. And to choose to concentrate on a comedian who asked women, can I jerk off in front of you? They said yes, and he did it. He didn't hold anybody in a room against their will or force them to watch him or

it's just what he did was just gross and he stopped doing it like more than 10 years ago right it's not good but the fact that someone would think that i need to make a statement about it like bitch i don't need to make a statement about anything i don't need to talk about anything i don't want to talk about like who are you it's so quick we automatically when i say we i mean people at large sort of assume the worst about a person immediately i think it's also this social media thing yeah it's i don't think it's they really assume that i think they just have this opportunity to express themselves in a way that they're going to get a reaction out of you yeah this is the way to do it i also you know what's crazy is that like i we've been harping on this this younger

generation but i've said some shit at like seller and vu like very anti-trump shit and people have been like like one night at vu the sellers one of their other clubs i said um i forget what i said about trump i basically fat shame him because i think he's a fat piece of shit. But I said that in more articulate, in a joke form. And some guy got up and was like, fuck this, and just bounced. And I'm like, what? That's what you're mad about? You're not mad about the fact that he is that?

That your president is a billionaire that doesn't use his money to just hire a personal trainer once in a while? Like,erall mcdonald's diet is not the way you want your fucking president to be living his life more or less and this person just got up and bounced and was just heated and i talked to him after i was like what what are you what are you mad about so i think it's just what did he say he was like i don't like the words that you were using it's very crude from nebraska florida that's just like look man i didn't like the words you were using at the comedy seller vulgar i'm like oh yeah i'm like dog like come on man you're like that's what i'm saying i feel like this fix is like just have a safe space for comics we're like where there's a sign at the cellar now is a swim at your own risk you coming down like weird you're here to see us i'm not here to fucking song sing and dance for you guys you guys are here this is an exchange this is an exchange this is an agreement that all you

have to do is not laugh or laugh well it's also the people that are going down to see that stuff that like it expect you to do that kind of comedy. Right. They expect you to go hard. Right. That's what it's about. If I go there and everybody's pulling back, all of a sudden I'm at the Tonight Show. Yeah.

And all of a sudden I'm at a Jimmy Fallon monologue. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not what I came here for. Right. I came here to have a couple of drinks and hear some crazy shit from Greer Barnes. Yeah. You know what I mean? The man.

I want to hear some real stand-up. I don't want to hear this stupid shit. Right. And, you know, people that can't handle some offensive stuff, you shouldn't be at a comedy club. This is where people go to say offensive stuff. It's like you don't want dirt in your hands and you're in a garden. Right.

Like, this is stupid. What? Like, manage some expectations. Yeah. You know, just walk, like, hey. But people politically, man, when you get into their, you know, their like hey, but people politically man when you get into their you know Their team and you're shitting on their team. He's probably Republican. Of course. I mean his brain damage. He's living in, Florida Waters tough everything's to me. It's like it's like

Politically like people are are so like that's part of their personality almost where like having i i've done a lot of political comedy you know and to me it's like when you do that you're almost talking to them as as if their politics are their person like like and that's the kind of crazy thing like i don't my politics are not necessarily who i am as a human being like i can i'm pretty liberal when it comes to social issues but might fairly conservative when it comes to financial issues and fiscal issues i'm just like don't take what who i voted for to be who i am as a human being like there's no one has that nuance anymore about anything. Yeah, it's an identity issue. People find whatever team it is, whether it's progressive or conservative,

and they just decide this is my identity, and they cloak themselves in it, and then they defend it. And someone like yourself is saying jokes that are contrary to that. Yeah. They just can't handle it. I am talking shit about their quarterback. You know what I mean? Their quarterback.

Yeah, their quarterback is about to get fucking popped. Yeah. Jesus Christ, man. He's going to get pulled off the field. that yeah i am talking shit about the quarterback you know what i think you know yeah that quarterback is about to get fucking popped yeah jesus christ get pulled off the field jesus christ man it's every day it's like he's still there huh dude i've never the fucking last two weeks i've never like wanted more like trump to say something wild just so people stop fucking just so i'd stop seeing emails and fucking new google or it's about nimesh patel whatever just like trump let's fuck look this guy's crazy man well you shouldn't be googling your name first of all you definitely shouldn't be reading that stuff i deleted the google alerts i deleted all that shit but yo you know it's crazy my mom once my once my mom i didn't tell my parents that that shit happened uh what they heard

my my dad works at a liquor store and someone came in with a copy of the post and like on the second page is me it's like that's your son right and i was like oh fuck and then what did the post say they talking shit about you no they were they were like can you believe these fucking pc yeah yeah kids good and then you're winning here and then uh and then and then i was like it was still dead because up until that point, everyone is sort of like, it's more just like pushing the narrative that everyone's kind of soft. Right.

Thursday morning, like four days, five days after it happened, I got a text from Lenny Marcus at like 8 o'clock in the morning saying, hey, man, you're trending on Yahoo. I'm like, I'm trending on hey man you're trending on yahoo i'm like i'm trending on yahoo trending i'm number one on yahoo news thursday morning and i'm like um and then like that day my mom texts me saying hey what happened at columbia i said i didn't get in that was the only thing i said and then she calls me and she's like telling me like what did you do is your career okay i'm like i'm fine these kids they

they didn't like the joke i said and like i didn't the real i didn't tell them is it's so that even for them to get stand-up has been such an uphill battle for your parents yeah just to be like what are you doing up until like for the two years that i was like unemployed and like living at home and going to the city every night because i'm from jersey so i'll go to the city every night to do stand-up they're like what the fuck is what are you doing with your life you know right right and so even up until like they didn't come see me until like seven seven years in that's good yeah that's good you get your legs under you yeah that brought him to the cellar it was dope you know my parents came to see me like a year in they still think i suck oh shit dude but you can't do that dog still doing open mics man joe we're gonna uh fix your room up again

what are you doing cleaning the basement out this is not gonna work yeah but so when my mom saw it she called me and she's like what happened i'm like my career is gonna be don't worry about any of that kind of better than ever yeah it's a boost mom yeah this is this is this would be a positive thing that happens it's i'm going through some shit now just from like fucking my own hoisted by my own petard situation like reading the news and all this kind of shit but this would be a positive thing and like i didn't expect them to sign a code they got it in that i was like that's the end of those just like the facts of what happened well you've got some things on your side. You've got tangible success to the point where it seems like you've got some momentum there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be hard to stop that train with anything other than a real catastrophe. Oh, yeah. I mean, they also know that I haven't. It's also very apparent in every article that was printed or whatever that most people are on my side so to speak and i'm 100 confident i did nothing wrong right from a huge as a human being or a comic you know yeah like maybe reading the room would have been a thing i did but i was like i was like i know these people these are my fucking brethren like i yeah i like i fucking took calculus with you

people like i i know i know the kind of shit that me and my asian friends and my indian friends would talk when we were in fucking school like this i'm not this is fucking light work right right and so so maybe that but even that i'm like no fuck that i'm not gonna fucking uh think about that going awry you know what i mean but yeah it was it it was crazy yeah it's it's an educational experience and a net positive overall without a doubt and it also gives us an opportunity to make fun of these kids which i think they need they need to realize that the world thinks they're fools yeah like and i really believe that all i've read several articles on your case your situation rather your case you got a case i got comedy me too you know all the all the articles that i've read were all essentially positive yeah and

they were all you know mocking these fucking little children i want to i want to say for the record that i this is on the record i still think that it was i still think that it's the minority of that group, especially at Columbia, for sure. I'm sure. It's just that they happen to, because the majority of those kids were amped and had a good time. That can happen, though, where a majority can like you and a minority can stand up, and then the majority doesn't do anything about it. They just go, what? That shit hurt my feelings.

Did it? No, no, no. Those kids saying like, let them stay, let them stay. But it wasn't like a chorus, which I would have hoped. They're little fucking babies. And they need to hear it. They need to hear the little babies. Because that's how you grow up.

You do something ridiculous. And then people criticize you. And then you realize, oh, I'm kind of ridiculous. Let me just check myself. Then it hurts your feelings and you fight it off for a little bit. You try to pretend. You battle it. But overall, over the course of time, you're going to absorb that information.

And hopefully those kids are going to grow and mature. Yeah. I mean, I have friends that were like completely progressive, weirdo, crazy, off the charts charts like activists 10 years ago and now they're like way way mellow and they've just like what was wrong with me i was virtue signaling i was trying too hard and they realized like a lot of what they were doing was just wasting energy and it was just it's just a lot of angst and a lot of just trying to affect change in order to make themselves feel better. You know what I mean? Trying to push buttons in order to validate their existence. That's what a lot of that specific incident felt like.

It was either like, no, we have an opportunity to assert our sort of rightness, however wrong it is here. And we're going to take a stand and this is who we, I'm like, yo, just, just chill, yo. Just relax. Chill the fuck out. What the fuck?

Yeah. It's, there's a lot of foolishness, but this is the world we live in. And I think there's a big part of that accentuated by the fact that we have a maniac for president. Yo, yeah. That's what it is.

Because they feel like that evil needs to be combated at every turn because we didn't before and we let this guy get into office and now here he is and the Mueller probe and all this fucking craziness. When Obama was president, shit felt a lot cooler. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was like, hey, we're going to be fine. But now it's like Trump is president.

Everyone's like, oh, shit, man, bunker down. Now we realize all you have to do is be popular and you can be president like that's insane yeah it used to be you had to be qualified we used to think that you understood national policy foreign policy you understood defense you understood exactly what's going on with the economy basic english yeah you know that guy doesn't know shit he's just trying to make money yeah and wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall i would because what we're getting all the crazy is him when he knows cameras are on him oh yeah i would love to see what he's like alone like what he's i would love

to see him like watch fox news i'd like to like sit next to him cheeseburgers just fucking crazy he's a crazy person yeah it's really weird man it's it's unnerving and that's what I think like what a lot of what we're seeing on

especially with this particular thing is the thing where it's like you you don't have control in any other facet of your life necessarily

so you're gonna try to exert it in a way that you think is positive when in fact you're doing the opposite of what you your your liberal sensibilities are yeah you know i think it's also a trend and i think um that political correctness and it comes in waves and it existed it was pretty pretty strong in the 80s

you know like political correctness was washing over people in the 80s yeah they're trying to destroy rap and shit. Yeah, and it's coming back. And it'll go away again. People get sick of it and it'll be ridiculous. And people will rebel against political correctness. But I think overall, the culture is trying to adjust. It's trying to self-adjust.

We're trying to, the actual culture as a whole is trying to eliminate racism and eliminate sexism and eliminate bias. Which are good noble goals. They're good noble goals. Right. But along the ways you have these polar extremes of people that are doing it wrong. Poor execution. Yeah. Terrible execution. Terrible understanding. And it's also strange to me it's like

what utopia are you trying to create by silencing stuff because just because you do that just because you say oh you can't say racist shit doesn't mean it goes away or you can't say sex shit doesn't mean it's a that's more like you're treating the symptom and not the disease right but in their defense you're talking about a very specific platform right this is a stage if you had actually said something actually racist right then it would make sense that hey we don't want anybody telling racist 100 right yeah so they but they wanted it to be racist yeah that's the thing it's like yo just

fucking take a minute take a second to relax and what i get it is that what utopia have you read about that's ever been real like every book we read in high school college brave new world lord of the flies 1980 or animal farm like the giver would be read in fucking middle school that's all a utopia but this fucking killing babies and you know it all goes south yeah it's all a fucking false utopia kind of situation there's there is hate speech in the world. 100%. And you don't want it on your platform. But you've got to decide what is hate speech.

When is it really hate speech? And when is it just ignorance? And sometimes the best way to combat bad speech is to let that speech play out and let good speech overwhelm it with logic and reason and a better argument. Right. That's really what freedom of speech is supposed to be all about, that we work all this out. As soon as you start censoring voices and telling people that you're not going to allow them to talk,

boy, you create this atmosphere where you can start to choose what you're going to allow through and what you're not going to allow through, and then you're going to start censoring things that are far more subtle. You're going to start censoring things that are far more subtle. You're going to start censoring things that, you know, they don't seem reasonable. But you've decided that it's already okay to censor. So you've censored this person. Now you're going to censor the next worst thing. And then you're going to go down the line until it's just people that disagree with you.

And then you're like, oh, well, my world is perfect now. When in fact, it's actually just a bunch of people that are talking shit about you. You just don't happen to know about it. Are you familiar with what's going on with Patreon? No, with that. And that's like the podcast pay form thing where you can pay for shit with Patreon?

Well, yeah, you can pay for things, but it's not necessarily just for podcasts, but people do use it for podcasts. They use it for many things. Okay. But there's this guy, his name is Carl Benjamin,

and he goes by the name of Sargon Arcad, and he considers himself what you call a classic British liberal, which leans more conservative than our idea of what a liberal is. But essentially, it's more of like a libertarian. How would you describe a classic British liberal? Like, what would be the definite? Like, Google that. The first of their name would be Carl Benjamin.

I mean, that's a strong name. Well, Sargon of Akkad is his screen name. And he has a YouTube channel. And he said something on a podcast, not even his own. He was a guest on another channel. And he said something about white supremacists. He was talking about these white supremacists that are acting up and doing all these horrible things. And he said, and this is, it's a poorly formed thought.

But what he essentially said was, you guys are being niggers oh my god you act like white niggers this is his word jesus see this is what he's saying you're acting like a bunch of niggers just so you know you act like white niggers i'm sorry if you heard that word and it's offending you right now ladies and gentlemen i'm just reading uh said exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression i get dealing with the alt right i'm really i'm just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect so that's a very very it's a very poorly thought out way of expressing himself um that's what i'm thinking i'm reading this and i think also sometimes people like using that word to shock yeah and they think they can get away with it

and you know when you're using it what's this what's this in what's the context of this like well here's it but he also said here look you carry on but you don't expect me to have a debate with one of your faggots like why would i bother okay now that is more egregious right because that is i mean and if you're you're you know we're just dealing with censoring words, he's not using that saying you're acting like the way you call gay people. He's not saying that. He's like calling someone a gay slur. And he's saying it again and again. So this was just what they had decided to use.

Now, I don't agree with any of these things he said. When I'm reading this, I'm this is these are poorly thought out arguments this is a poorly thought out sentence it's not well just stop scrolling there for a second put that back up it's not it's not well thought out not at all not good so they've but this has nothing to do with his Patreon page. It doesn't even have to do with his channel. This is something, he made this comment as a part of a longer, wide-ranging interview with a YouTuber named Michelle Catlin. Catlin?

And you can watch the full interview on this. It says, chatting with Sargon of akkad about the liberalist community um so he you know it was free-flowing and he he said a bunch of really stupid things that but what he was trying to say is that these people are behaving exactly the way they do when they try to say racist things about black people yeah essentially they're behaving exactly the way they're describing yeah race in a racist way black people yeah it's just not well thought out i mean this guy needs a class and how to fucking be articulate i mean jesus christ but that's that's what i'm getting from this. So Patreon decided to remove him because of that. And there's many people that feel like that's not exactly why they did it, that they were looking for an excuse.

And it's really because of his anti-liberal bias. A lot of people are disgusted by the idea that Patreon is now censoring voices and deciding who should or should not be able to receive donations from their fans based on their own personal political biases. So this is the argument now. And it's an interesting thing that's popped up because people like Sam Harris, who is very left. I mean, he gets accused of being all right, which is kind of hilarious. But he's very progressive. And, you know, he's a public intellectual. countdown because he doesn't like the way they are choosing to censor people and de-platform people based entirely on something that has nothing to do with anything he's done on their platform and it's something to do with something that was out there on on another channel

so it's one of those weird little battleground situations but do you think like uh that patreon is a private enterprise right yes so they can do whatever the fuck they want essentially they can and did so then people can decide that they don't want to deal with patreon because patreon doesn't support free speech so because free speech the argument would go that free speech is not just supporting speech that you agree with true free speech is letting people express themselves right now the way he expressed himself they're not very good clumsy right right heavy that's an understatement yeah like your thoughts on it this year you've never seen this before no

what are your thoughts on it i'm like dude you i mean's such a, that choice of words is such a way to just, if I'm a person reading that, I'm like, my eye goes, you said what? You can't, like, it's such an offensive word where you can't even go there. It immediately distracts from the point that you're trying to make. That's a good way of putting it. You know, it's such like a, you just need, like, I don't think that guy, I don't know if he's racist or not, but like Like I don't think That guy I don't know if he's racist or not But like I don't think he is But your immediate reaction

Is like this guy You can't do that It's like You have You have fundamentally destroyed Whatever point you were trying to make Because of your choice It's like

You could be trying to save I can't think of the analogy now But like It's It's such a distracting choice of words. Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. You know? Yeah.

He could have said, and by the way, like all conversations, including this one, right? Like, I'm trying to formulate these opinions on the fly, so are you. Yeah. That was what he was doing on the fly. I don't think this is anything he prepared. So I think... I didn't put that. Did you imagine he did?

Damn, dog. You mean that wasn't vetted? Oh, dude dude he's gone over that with a fucking highlighter these are the key points he wants to hit on there's been a few websites i don't i don't know i was trying to look up the ones exactly but i know for instance on twitch uh in the last year they've changed things on the terms of service that kind of what you do broadly yes affects what you do on anyone's account the problem with that what you're just saying right now, is the guy who's the CEO of Patreon actually went on Dave Rubin's show, The Rubin Report, and said that they're only concerned with things that happen on Patreon. And that's what they focus on. Then they changed that after this. Because here's the problem.

Like I see their point with this particular thing that this guy said. I see how they find that offensive. And if that becomes a thing that he does more than once and becomes a thing that he uses that all the time and uses that kind of that kind of language in that context a lot it's like hmm this is not it's clunky it's not it's not a wise choice of words it's it's sloppy and it's kind of lazy right and also it's kind of racist. Yeah. But it's, why is it racist? Well, it's racist because what he's doing is attacking people who are racists by saying, and he could have done it this way, right? He could have said, you people rally on about black people and call them this, and you say they're doing that.

This is what you do. Right. You are exactly what you're, the only thing that's missing is that you don't have the right pigment to to receive your own hate your own self-hate right you're doing the very things that you accuse that you in a racist way accuse black people of doing it's stupid but it's to the way to combat that i don't when you start censoring people and taking away their ability to make a living by expressing themselves i just don't think that's the way to go because you're just going to receive backlash and that's that's the thing it's one of those that's that's one of those instances

where it's like you've said a trigger word that is clearly a trigger word. Yes. And what you just said is the way he should have said what he wanted to say. Right. In hindsight, if you gave him an opportunity, like you say, hey, Carl, here's a time machine. Right. Go back right before you said that and say it again. What? I was going to say, on Patreon, though, like I'm reading their stance on it. As a website, they don't host anything.

Right. So like to say that it's something that's happening no but they do host blogs like jordan peterson wrote a blog on patreon but that's what most of their content is is links from other websites so it's like they have to take into account what you're creating as a creator anywhere almost right this isn't even him as a creator though this was him a guest on someone else's show. So this is not something that's his own content that he put out. There's stances that he collaborates with other creators,

and this would be considered a collaboration. Yeah. As a YouTube creator, I guess. I see that point. I do not think that it's a wise thing to censor him, though. Do you? Get that motherfucker a PR coach, dog. Jesus Christ. At the the very least maybe that this

is the first dance which i think they're saying it is uh definitely a warning or maybe but here's the thing man here's a fan temporary band what he but here's the thing what he does is he's uh he's he's a commentator he sees life and he about it. And I've listened to a lot of his stuff and it's very good. He's a smart man. A lot of it's very good. This is not very good. So the right way when it comes to these things is let the people who contribute to his Patreon

decide that they don't like what he's doing so they're no longer going to subscribe. That's the correct use of the platform right the platform exists because people who are fans are able to contribute that i say i really like what you do i'm going to send you a hundred dollars every month and if someone wants to do that they can do that and there's a lot of people that do do that when you say something that makes them offended that makes them realize you're sloppy with your words, that makes them feel like you're a fool. They go, you know what? I'm not sending that fucking guy money anymore.

Yeah, let the marketplace talk in that sense. Boom, and then they pull back. If he lost 30% of his market because of that, and then a bunch of blogs are written about how stupid what he said was, that's the correct response. Correct. I think.

I don't think, but the problem with pulling out is then guys like sam harris are pulling out and they've lost somewhere around 20 percent of all their patreon accounts because of this oh because there's been a backlash and by the way a backlash that's primarily coming for people who don't agree with what that guy said but do agree that it's a very slippery slope to start censoring people that's a good moral stance to take yeah like i it's a very slippery slope to start censoring people. That's a good moral stance to take.

Yeah. It's kind of like, I forget which political figure said it. It's like, I do not agree with what you're saying, but I will defend to the death your ability to say it. Yes. I think that's important because the only way that ideas get worked out is through discussion. And as soon as you silence voices, then you no longer have that discussion now to youtube's credit he's still up on youtube okay because this was a talk that he had that's available on youtube you can listen to it on youtube he still has his youtube account and he's still able to you know

the some one of the things that we're seeing with de-platforming is it's sort of a cascading effect so dominoes twitter takes you down and then facebook takes you down who was a guy uh not limbaugh but some other right winger that got like uh said some shit and they gavin mcginnis yeah they proud boys guy they took him off of everything yeah he's off of everything yeah yeah and that's that's that and with him it's even what was he he's like a hate speech guy isn't he's like fucking inciting violence and whatever he definitely did incite violence in that he wanted these proud boys to fight against antifa and he felt like the antifa people were thugs and that they showed up at conservative events and they threatened violence,

and then he wanted the Proud Boys to fight them. I actually had him on my podcast long before any of this shit went down when I didn't even know what the fuck the Proud Boys was, and I was asking him. I knew him as the co-founder of Vice, and I knew him as, what I would basically say is he was essentially, he was a shit talker. He was a provocateur.

He was a clever provocateur. He was kind of a funny guy. The last time he came on the show, he was dressed like Michael Douglas from Falling Down. He had the fucking briefcase and everything and the crazy tie. But he did it on purpose. He said he's dressing like Michael Douglas from Falling Down. He's a guy who would trick people into coming in and talking with him on his YouTube channel, and they thought that he was liberal or progressive,

and then he would basically talk them into a corner. Sasha Baron Cohen, Borat shit, or Ali G. In a way, yeah. He was doing a lot of that, and some of it was very clever that he was doing on his YouTube channel. Then he got into this whole Proud Boys thing. There's a video you can watch the bizarre origins of the Proud Boys from a podcast that I did

with Anthony Cumia from Opie and Anthony. And he explains how the Proud Boys initially were just a joke. It was literally a joke and they did it to make fun of a guy that was one of the was he one of their interns i think so that sounds yeah yeah it's kind of a crazy story man and then that shit took a real life of its own and now they're fucking junior kkk kind of yeah exactly that's crazy they they be they all of a sudden it got

away from them and they became an organization where you could just join. So all these people joined, and then they act as a Proud Boy, and they were beating people up and all this other crazy shit. And he doubled down on that? He got out. He quit. He denounced his position. He realized his life was falling apart. He was being labeled as – they falsely claimed the FBI labeled him as a hate crime, but they didn't.

But the Southern Poverty Law Center did label them as a hate crime, and several other organizations did as well. But the Southern Poverty Law Center, they have some pretty crazy shit that they've said as well. Okay. They're a serious liberal progressive organization that occasionally oversteps the boundaries of logic and reason. But what he did was start an organization. of organization that occasionally oversteps the boundaries of logic and reason they but he what he did was start an organization and i had a joke about about vegans my joke about vegans was the problem with vegans is the problem with any other group if you get a group of a hundred people what are the odds that one of them is going to be a fucking idiot well that's a hundred percent right

right if we're being like really charitable one out of a hundred is a fucking idiot. Well, that's 100%. Right. Right? If we're being like really charitable, one out of 100 is a fucking moron. So if you get a group like vegans, where just anyone can join, and you have, there's 300 million people in this country. That means there's 3 million fucking idiots. That's generous.

And a lot of them are vegan. And the joke was that the problem is not the actual people with good ethics and morals that don't want animals to suffer the problem is you let a bunch of people with no identity join your gang right and then they become a part of this plant-based gang this is the same thing with the proud boys i think some of them probably went into it thinking it was a goof and they were going to go there and they thought these Antifa assholes, these 90 pound dorks swinging bike locks at people and calling everybody a Nazi and a fascist and trying to shut down every single conservative speech that was at any sort of university. These people were preposterous. They were calling Ben Shapiro a Nazi.

He's a fucking Jewish man who wears a yarmulke. I mean, it's crazy to call him a nazi it's completely insane yeah so he's conservative they all right and they're all left almost right yes exactly and so their idea was to have something that would be there to balance out the alt left and it got out of control and so he denounced it and he stepped away from it pulled away but it's too late because he's now what you said see you don't know him but you said he's the hate speech guy you said he's that guy he's that hey that's how everybody's gonna see him right so if you found out your sister was dating him you'd be like what you're dating the hate speech guy like that's who he is and

be like no no no it's not that it's like it got away from him it just it became this it wasn't him anymore with all these people that joined that were actual racist too late yeah doesn't matter too late there's no room for that in this world i'm out the game yeah yeah so any all these other groups had once he started getting de-platformed these other groups got pressure to de-platform him because they said hey you keep the hate speech guy? You're telling me the hate speech guy's on YouTube? And they're like, fuck, okay, we gotta take him off.

And so this domino effect does seem to take place. So with this Sargon of Akkad thing, though, it doesn't seem to be taking place with him because people are examining what he said. And they're saying, well, this is a sloppy use of these words. It's not wise what he did

but i do not think he's a racist and i don't think he was promoting racism what he was doing was he was using words poorly awfully but yeah i mean that's what he's guilty of yeah but that's the i mean that's a that's a good sign he's not being deep platform then if like like if people are taking a beat to realize like like oh i don't hate gays and blacks like that's that's the point that the whole this whole thing has been a lesson in patience and that's good to hear that like this guy is being afforded some patience about but in their defense he's already been kicked off of twitter he'd been kicked off of twitter before i don't know what for though do you know what already been kicked off of twitter he'd been kicked off of twitter before i don't know what for though do you know what he got kicked off of twitter for he got kicked off of

twitter previously so he already had that scarlet mark you know there was already people were already looking at him you mean he's been inarticulate on twitter before no way go get on i don't know what he had done if he had they had determined that he had harassed somebody. What's that? This could be a new account. I guess I see he's on it right now. Is it a new account? It might be.

How many followers does he have? 13,000. Yeah, it's probably new. He had a lot more than that. He must have. I wonder if he started a new account. I got it. I see here.

Permanently banned account. Let's see. Yeah, he's permanently banned. This is in April of 2017. Oh, so it's pretty old. Isn't that funny? April of 2017 is millions of years ago now. The news cycle is so fast.

It's too fast. It's weird, right? Dude, I'm telling you, when I was at the show, it was like a story would be hot Monday morning, and then Tuesday morning, it is like, what happened? No one gives a shit. No one gives a shit. That's one of the more interesting things about this whole Trump story, especially the Mueller probe, is that there's been so many of those quick stories that have just piled up.

You remember that family where the son died in Iraq? Yeah, and he didn't... Sorry, let me cut you off. He was... He'd said something. He had mocked, somehow or another, mocked the family.

And people were like, this guy... And a lot of people thought that was going to be the end of him. And it's just like these things sort of pile up. Oh, the Pakistani-American? Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And there's been so many of those stories. But accumulative, they are starting to pile up too much. It's just little drops that are coming. He's been able to sort of roll with those punches and just sort of slide them off kind of.

But this Mueller thing, what i really like about the mueller thing is that it's been a real slow build and you get little hints of what's going on but it's been like the you know we were talking about this at the show while i was there it's like fbi don't fucking they build a case yeah they take their time, and they got all the time and money in the world to build, and when they come, they don't come light. Yeah. It's not like they come heavy. They're knocking on doors.

They're coming 100 deep, and it's going to be 0 to 100 like that, and that's going to be interesting to see what happens. Especially Mueller. You look at that guy. He's a calculated assassin that is he is taking his fucking time that's got to be killing trump he doesn't take shit and that the beauty with it mueller is that you know he's an independent guy yeah he don't take shit from nobody well the crazy thing was that trump was literally considering firing him. Yeah. But everyone's like, someone was like,

hey man, you, you cannot do that. That's the one, you cannot do that. But when he fired Comey, that's when I realized like, whoa, like this guy could just do that?

He could just fire the head of the FBI? He's just testing, he's just, can I do this? Yeah. Can I get rid of the attorney general that I think was supposed to be on my side? Sessions?

Yeah. Yeah, but he finds out, oh, no. Jeff is also, as racist as he is, is a man of high ethical standards when it comes to, like, I'm not going to fucking do. I may hate minorities, but I respect the law. You know, like, that's Jeff Sessions. Did you find out what happened? There wasn't a really good explanation of it. It was just one of those things like he had a, I think he had a debate with Baked Alaska,

and then the next day he was gone with no real explanation of why. He probably said some anti-salmon shit. What's Baked Alaska? I don't know what it was about Baked Alaska. He's a guy. He's a guy. He's a meme guy. Oh, okay.

He was just a meme guy, but now he's essentially become this really right-wing sort of... He's kind of in the InfoWars camp as well, right? But Big Alaska's come up with some fucking hilarious memes. Oh, okay. Some of his memes are hilarious. He had one with uh alex jones he's always had a bunch of them like that i've been out the game for that like the meme game just all of it like i'm so i feel old you know he has an interesting label what does it say

far right far right neo-nazi what yikes he's a neo-naazi? I don't know. What kind of name is Antime? Antime? What kind of a name is Damesh? Proud. Proud Patel, though. All right, man. Let's wrap this bitch up. I got to get the fuck out of here.

For sure, dude. But I think overall, man, I think you handled this really well. Thank you very much. This is definitely a positive for your career. Yeah, thank you. You're a funny dude. You just continue. Keep on moving on. Thank you, man. I think this is definitely a positive for your career. Yeah, thank you. You're a funny dude. You just continue to keep on moving on. Thank you, man.

I appreciate you, brother. My pleasure. Thank you, man. Thank you. Appreciate you, too. Thank you, man. Oh, tell people how to get to your Instagram, your Twitter, all that jazz. Yeah, sure.

I'm at FindingNimesh on Instagram. Twitter, I have like 10 followers because I hate Twitter. And then I'll be at the Punchline in Philly December 27th through December 29th. Beautiful. Go there and snatch the mic from him. No, don't do that. Just please. Oh, man.

That's going to happen. No. No. No. No. No. No.