The Joe Rogan Experience - #1262 - Pat McNamara

Episode Date: March 12, 2019

Pat McNamara spent 22 years in the United States Army in many special operations units. He is currently training people in tactical marksmanship and combat strength.

and four three two boom and we're live pat how are you sir good president of the university of badassery i'm more like the uh i'm more like the vice president man yeah who's the president probably uh cj ortiz he's the uh but he's the president of the university of badassery my uh co-host of a little podcast we do dude i fucking love your instagram page if there's a guy sir i'm gonna call when the shit hits the fan all right might be you woo rock and roll baby i'm there for you brother i also like guys who are my age or older that still get after it in the gym and your fucking page is filled with you getting after it bro we could go on we could full of a full segment on that alone yeah and and the secret

the big secret behind it which uh there's not much of a secret as you know yeah i mean hard work sucks and not everybody's cut out for it yeah people just don't enjoy it. Yep. They try to find a lot of nice excuses why they don't get after it. There you are. Yeah. One of the big excuses is age. Yeah. I run into guys all the time during my full-time training gig where I'm training guys on the range who say, you know,

I'm 38 or 40 or whatever, and I'm getting old. I'm like, bro, let me tell you something. This is something somebody told me when I was 30. And I've got affirmation of this from guys like you who've stayed fit their entire lives. The fittest of a man's age is around like 44, 45. That's when you could be on the top of your game. Like ultra runners and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, the strongest, the fastest, the man's age is around like 44, 45. That's when you could be on the top of your game.

Like ultra runners and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, the strongest, the fastest, the fittest, the smartest. You know, when it comes to knowing your body and how much you can do and how much you can take, after that, then you got to start being a lot smarter. You know, your diet, how you work out, how often. You know, like I'm super tentative now not to overwork. Yeah, me too. Because I've been told there is no such thing as overwork, but there is a such thing as under recovery.

I err on the side of caution a lot. Yeah, me too. A lot more now. And I've got it down, man. I started this system combat strength training when I retired from the military. Because when I retired from the military, I retired with four reconstructive surgeries, 13 broken bones. And any ground pounder who's a special ops guy who did 20 plus years, there's a lot of freaking mileage on that combat chassis right you know he's he's jacked up would you get reconstructed uh the first one was

this bicep i was a toad jumper doesn't have to make sense uh what does it mean oh it's related to static line jumping uh where you pass a static line off to a jump master he secures it and the static line uh at the end of the static line deploys your parachute so it's like you know it's like rookie jumping it's real infantry based jumping well that static line got wrapped around my reserve and around my arm and pulled me with the plane and pulled my bicep into my forearm broke ribs ribs, dislocated shoulder, concussion. And this was when I was fucking 18 years old. I just joined.

And I already got jacked up. Next one was a discectomy, L5S1. Just kind of an amalgamation of helo crashes and vehicle crashes and stuff like that. If people don't know what that means, it means your discs, they trim a little piece of it so it doesn't go against your nerve. Yeah, and it was a massive herniation. So they were able to take the big chunk out and then do that trim up as well,

which is, that's the easiest surgery I ever had. Really? Knee reconstruction sucked I mean that was a full freaking year Six months of You know getting back on your feet And then Another year before I was

Like a hundred percent Right And I was I think I was still in my twenties Did you get a ACL reconstruction? Yeah Center patella tendon

Yeah I did that one It's hard. That's a hard one. I did the other one with the allograft, with the cadaver. It's way easier. Really?

That was six months. Six months and I was 100%. Man. Yeah, because I've heard it. Six months difference. Yep. Damn,

that's a big chunk of time. Yeah. Six months. Yeah. But the other thing is that sometimes people's bodies reject those allografts. Right.

Didn't happen with me. I got lucky. But I do know of some people. And also, it feels like it's healed before it's really healed. Oh. Do you know how that works? What happens is they take that graft and they put it in there. And then instead of that being your new ligament, your body has to replace that with tissue.

Oh, right. So, your body has to re-proliferate that tendon with its own cells and so it takes a long time so it feels stable you're like oh my knees back man my legs feel strong and then you go to pivot to throw a punch or something like that and pop pop it just pops like a wet piece of toilet paper yeah yeah you know some people they say some people are acl dependent and others are not. But, man, I needed that one done because it was a jet. Yeah.

I don't understand people not being ACL dependent. I mean, it's a stabilizer and ligament in your knee. And then the last one was shoulder. And they were able to do that non-evasively. You know, scope it. They were able to scope it in like four different places. And they created, let me see if I get this right. They created a bigger injury to promote more healing.

Yeah. So they did like bone scrapes and stuff like that and went in. So they were able to do it without cutting the shoulder open. Oh, what was wrong with your shoulder? Bunch of tears. It was a, how did i hurt that one that was i got called in one day and i used to drive my dirt bike to work uh like eight miles of uh real pristine uh uh forest and a t-bone the deer

uh, uh, forest and a T-bone, a deer going, Jesus Christ. Yeah. The 55. It's like hitting a brick house. I mean,

I'm sure you stop. Yeah. There's no give with that thing. And thankfully, um, I've good. I've, I've been to riding schools,

like even the Gary Simic motocross school. So I was up high elbows up high. So I flew like Superman. I didn't get all tangled up in the bike but I mean I sailed for 20 yards

60 feet Jesus Christ in the air? Yep 60 feet That's far man Yeah Yeah yeah

Oh fuck I came down and hit directly flat and then slid and hit a tree So I knew the shoulder was jacked up, but that one,

I had all kind of neat injuries from that one. Like I had this one thing called the adhesion. So I went, I was able to make it to work and they checked out my shoulder. They said, yeah, you're jacked up. We'll put you, we'll get you MRI tomorrow.

Humma, humma. That night I go home and I wake up to go take a piss and uh i realize i've got this massive like bubble on my side massive and i thought man i might have internal bleeding this thing was gigantic it was you know right on top of my pelvis so i just i uh set my alarm clock for like every 10 minutes just to see if I was still with it. And then went in the next day, and they sucked out a couple thousand milliliters of bloody byproduct because it was the skin separating from the bone.

Oh. So I think that's what they call it, an adhesion. Oh, so a bunch of blood fills the gap. Yeah, it was all like orange bloody byproduct crap nice yeah i've had some weird i'm sure injuries but but you're pieced back together again i can tell you know you do a lot of crazy working out with like i've seen a lot of shit you do with like cinder blocks you make do with what's around you well that so my work tempo is pretty it's off the charts last year and the year before i traveled to a different state every week and most of them were jet setting

so lugging all my shit to the airport every week all my guns and everything this is for tactical training right so is this is this for private individuals, military training? Like, how is it? All of it. All of the above? Most of my courses are open enrollment. So I have all walks of life. I mean, the demographic is extremely wide. And so is the skill set disparity of these guys who come. You know, out of 14 guys who sign up, four of them would be cops, three military, the rest civilians.

sign up, four of them would be cops, three military, the rest civilians. And in that civilian group, I mean, you got computer programmers, you got surgeons, you got lawyers, you got strip club owners. I mean, the demographic is pretty eclectic. It's pretty wide. is pretty eclectic it's pretty wide and when i go uh to these places instead i used to like go to a law fitness or something you know like an la fitness after work but i got tired of that you know just walking through trying to navigate my way through an endless maze of bench presses watching guys do concentration curls in the mirror. So I started range workouts where I'll plan it during the day, and it became a thing where fit guys in the class are watching me.

They're going, hey, bro, what's the workout after training? Can we do it with you? On your Instagram? Yeah, but then the guys in the course will say, hey, can I do the workout with you after training? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. So you just find whatever's laying around, yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. Yep.

So you just find whatever's laying around, tire, cinder block. Yep. Anything. Wall. You know, if I have a wall, I could do a lot with that. Let's say it's a five, six foot wall. There's a lot you could do with that. A lot you could do with just a tree.

Some cinder blocks, you know. And then every once in a while while guys will bring like a 90 pound sandbag or a couple kettlebells because now it's a thing they expect it yeah so they're like all right we want to do a pat mac workout after range day and uh you know kudos to those guys because that shit that's hard you know when you're on the range all day working your ass off and especially in the blazing hot sun And guys hang out To do a workout with me Like bad

Kudos to you bro Rock and roll One of the cool things about the internet Is that people find other people That want to push themselves Yep And they find inspiration Through guys like you

And there's you know Dozens of guys like you online That are like fun to follow And you get You go this guy's doing it I gotta fucking get off my ass guy's doing it i gotta fucking get off my ass and go do it because sometimes people just need an example they need someone to look at and go this and it literally can change the way you live your life no doubt you see a guy

who's doing what you're doing he's like god damn it he's fucking intense all the time he's getting after it look at his beard i don't want to be like that like look at you over here there's the cinder block yeah i love that that's in eagle lake texas probably three years ago what's the smoke is that exhaust fume or gunshots um no the uh the owner uh i know what that he was he was smoking um it was a smoker oh yeah he was making meat oh nice yep yep yeah but those are that's those are, man. Those swings in between the legs like that, that's how you build the real core strength. If you're back and the whole spinal column, keep it tight and strong. You know, it's funny.

Even today I'm reading some comments about whatever it is. even today I read, I'm reading some comments about whatever it is. There's a lot of stupid people out there when it comes to like not understanding the right way to work out. And I want to tell these guys, Hey man, two things. One is if you do, if you do what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always gotten. Number two, I didn't go home last night and smoke a bunch of crack and dream this shit up i mean there's i've i've done a lot of freaking research a lot of um there's a lot of time and effort that's gone into this and um they'll say hey man you're gonna throw your back out doing that stuff no motherfucker that's that's building your back yeah you know work in that transverse plane is what guys neglect a lot see here here we go i'm

gonna get on this freaking soapbox i swear to god go ahead go get on the box do a box when most guys when most guys work out they live in a what i call a sagittalistic environment you know three planes of motion frontal sagittal transverse so they're in the sagittal world doing bench press and concentration curls. Out of the three planes of motion, I would say that transverse is most important. Additionally, when we work out, I would also argue with confidence that it's the plane of motion that is most neglected, that transverse plane. I like to tell guys that in the transverse plane lives life-saving and ass kicking there are four reasons why we should why we should exercise this is max opinion okay one self-preservation longevity good for your health stronger longer motion is lotion number two the ability to save your own life.

Having that confidence knowing, yep, I could pull myself out of that burning car or over that wall or whatever. Number three, more importantly to me, is being Batman. The ability to save somebody else's life. So, that's three reasons. The last one, kicking somebody's fucking ass. So, when I look at workout, i look at those four things right there not like cosmetics or anything cosmetics is a cool byproduct if you work out right you're gonna look better you look better you feel better you're more confident you're more confident you perform

better because confidence performance work hand in hand sure so i, there's no freaking magic elixir to it, you know, and it's hard. Yeah, people like to see the result. Like if you do bench press, you see your chest puff up, they see those results. I always tell people if there's one exercise I would recommend, like people who do jujitsu, Turkish get up. Right. It's the least romantic. I did those last week. It's the least romantic of all workouts.

Nobody wants to do those goddamn things. Go to a a gym you can go to a hundred gyms if you're lucky you find one person doing turkish get-ups every gym will have someone someone somewhere is doing bench press and someone's doing curls and lat pull-down machine and all that normal shit yeah working out it's kind of they're it's it's like an anachronism. They're working in a world, like a muscle and fitness world still. And that's fine, working in isolation, if that's your job. There's three types of people who should work out in concentration, like doing a curl or something, a concentration curl. A professional bodybuilder.

That's your J-O-B, man. That's your sport. Number two, you're recovering from surgery and atrophy, so it's physical therapy. Number three, you got no fucking idea what you're doing. Or you're a model. You're trying to look sexy as fuck. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's possible, too. That's right.

Yeah, right. So they fall in that same category. Trying to look pretty. Yeah. It's just not... Yeah, right. So they fall in that same category. Trying to look pretty. Trying to look, yep. Yeah, if you, it's just not, what you really need with exercise is something that's going to mimic what you would actually do in real life. Picking up things, moving them around. Like farmer walks.

Yep. Farmer walk, very unglamorous. Yep. You carry a heavy ass kettlebell in one hand and just walk around for like a half a mile. And your fucking forearm would be dying. Your legs would would be killing you your core is going to be shaking it's amazing and i like the way you put it carry it on once you know load that one side at a time yeah that's what you gotta do people don't know that they try to do it with two arms but with two arms it balances out and then it's really just a grip and a leg exercise with a little bit of

lats and traps but really what you want to do is one 100-pounder on one hand. Carry that bitch. Everything is just kind of balance it out. And then turn around. Put it on the left hand. Love it. It's great. We do at my gym a lot of that where we load one side at a time.

One of the things I love to hear is a guy will say, man, I never see you doing the same thing. Yeah. Like, well, I pretty much don't because I don't want to fall into a rut of complacent adaptation,

you know? So even guys will say, do you, do you do like only lifts? Yeah, of course. Every once in a while, I'll probably do a deadlift

a standard deadlift once every two months but i'm doing variations of that like a shovel deadlift or a suitcase you know deadlifts that suck and are like you said are not glamorous yeah i'll throw those in a bunch but do you do much cardio here's how i knock out cardio is uh i have a a formula um with this i have a program combat strength training i got an ebook and website and all this and so is your program something that people could sign up for oh yeah okay yeah they can buy the ebook um is it what's the website so jamie can pull it up combatstrengthtraining.com and the formula is

work in work in anaerobic chunks in circuit to near metabolic threshold to meet an aerobic goal and then like 30-35 minutes so that doesn't include

warm up you know so you're good whatever it is for me it's like bag work or something for warm up just to make work or something for warm-up

just to make sure everything's loosey-goosey the older you are the more you have to warm up man damn don't jack yourself up it's called fitness not brokenness yeah people that's another thing that people don't like to do because it's not glamorous and because the people get lazy they don't want to do that workout where the pre-workout they don't want to do all the skipping rope and all the just switching stances and jumping jacks and all that stuff but you really need to break a sweat a real sweat before you actually start lifting weights and then even if you lift weights or do anything like say if you're going to do kettlebells i'll start off with 35 pounds i'll do everything nice and light at first. I don't start off heavy.

Nope. Yep. Well, that's also wisdom. Yes. You know, that's what that's. That's also being fucked up a bunch of times. Exactly. Pulling this and yanking that.

Yep. Yeah, chalk that one up to wisdom because you learn that, hey, you know what? It's okay to put my big fat ego aside. Yeah, I still have an ego But I'm not gonna get Jacked up Because

I wanna smoke these guys And in order to do that I can't be You know I can't have tweaks In my neck And in my back And

There's a There's a bunch of guys Who do these They do these Workout Competitions Called Train to Hunt

And It's mostly for bow hunters where they have all these um uh physical challenges like you do a bunch of stuff with sandbags and the idea is to jack your heart rate up and then when you have to execute a shot you got to be in enough physical condition so you can bring your heart rate down pretty rapidly and it's all timed and they're competing i love that stuff yeah i love that kind of stuff with tactical yeah i've got an entire youtube channel dedicated to that stuff nice so um uh yeah they're they're all very very tough like shots rifle pistol and prior to that i'm pushing a truck, pulling it, climbing a fast rope, running with a sandbag. I call it shot impossible almost, where that heart rate is slamming in your throat.

And now you've got to go into respiratory pause and take these 50-yard pistol shots. I'm doing pistol at 50 yards and ding, ding, ding, ding. But yeah, I love that stuff. And that's where interval training really comes into play. Learning to control that heart rate, learning how to breathe the right way. Man, that shit is badass.

I'm a big fan of all that. Yeah, I am too. I've never done a tactical course. I really want to take some lessons though because like i saw keanu reeves doing it for john wick and i was like that looks fun yeah i mean i've shot my guns at the range before and stuff like that i've hunted with rifles but with pistols i'd like to go through some sort of man you'd love you'd love uh my courses um because i keep them is this one of your things right here oh yeah yeah that's uh oh dude

this was tough man that's a lot of rope that's 100 feet of fat ass hemp rope with uh two 70 pound cmb's at the end of it and i forget what i do here but um there's the yeah i got my steel at the end i forget i forget i think i run up oh yeah there's three cones i see them now so that the forms and everything are just smoked jacked yeah yeah they're they're yeah plus music that'll get us kicked off youtube if we oh this was uh yeah this was a turn and burn yeah just a simple turn and burn but that rope crushed my spirits there's a couple of these youtube videos that i've got one where i'm i fell in love with the idea um i thought because i do this at the gym where i grab a kettlebell and i balance it on end you know so you're balanced right upside down and so 55 pound kettlebell, most people can't do that.

You know, just balance a kettlebell. Well, I'll walk on a balance beam with them, you know, and stuff like that. That's phenomenal. Yeah,

it's good stuff. So I thought, all right, next YouTube video, I'm going to do the 55 pound kettlebell, balance this thing on end, shoot strong hand, and then balance,

and then shoot support hand 50 yard 50 yard so i got out on a balance yeah it's on youtube yeah so i got out there and i got all my stuff ready got my bed in my truck got my gun laid out i throw that kettlebell up left hand first and pull the pistol up and i'm looking at the target and I am shaking like a dog shitting sand spurs. I'm going, this was a bad idea. Oh my God. And shot it clean. Shot it clean the first time.

And then I have to, because I do this like a West Stroud type of filming, you know, West Stroud, the survival man. Less. Less Stroud. of filming, you know, West Stroud, the survival man. Les. Les Stroud. Yeah. Yeah. So where I go and talk to the camera afterwards, I was so happy when it rang again, when it rang. Ding.

So I had this massive smile on my face. I dropped the kettlebell. I had to erase it and come over to the camera and go, all right, well, that was a pretty good time. You know, here's the time. Upside down kettlebells are great for shoulder stability. Yeah. Because it's all like that wiggly.

Once again, something that people don't work on in the gym, stabilization. Balance, stabilization, proprioception, kinesthetic awareness, because it ain't sexy. And they're not building peaks on biceps and you know cutting their abs so we do a lot of like rubber band work holding it isometric you know and watch everything freaking shake just shake and shake when you put together these drills and you put together these programs do you do you just sit down and map it all out in your head do you think like okay how am i going to emulate the kind of stress in a like a life or death gunfight your your heart rate's jacked you might have to physically do something you have to run from

someone or climb over something is that how you do yeah how do you create yeah you're talking about like the youtube stuff where i do the physical thing with the shoot? Yeah. The first thing I do is I put it on my calendar just so I know that I'm going to make one. And then I'll start thinking about it. What haven't I done? Because I have to think also, I have to think about the audience. The audience that follows me on YouTube, a lot of them are gun guys. So they want to know about the gun that I'm using. So I have to think about the audience the audience that follows me on youtube a lot of my gun guys so they want they want to know about the gun that i'm using so i have to think about that and then i have to think all right what challenge can because i want guys to replicate it i want

them to like put those little notes on the ut i did this and my time was a minute and 30 or whatever it was so i want them to be able to replicate them as well. And want to make them with some real world application in mind. So front loading a sandbag or pulling something in and out of a car. And doing that with a bunch of repetitions. When you're doing dead weight in and out of a car, 150 pounds, pulling it in, pushing it out, pulling it back in, pushing it out, that'll smoke every freaking ounce of your being and it'll crush your spirits.

I know. It's crazy, right? You would think of a full-grown woman, you'd be able to pick her up and put her in a car easy. No, hard. Try getting her out. Right, especially if there's no, you know, you've got to think dead weight. Yeah, exactly.

You know, what if this person is incapacitated? They ain't helping you. Those arms, those, you know, those limbs are moving everywhere, and it is a pain in the dick. Yeah, you're way better off with a 150-pound barbell. Oh, yeah. You carry that way easier. Whatever.

Yeah, it's like, all right, that's just beefy. You stabilize that on your shoulder, pull it out. Yeah. So, but I have to keep those things in mind. The other thing I want to do is I want to make them, I kind of want to make them hard enough so not everybody could do it. Because I want to do something that my industry competitors are not doing. And I've turned this. I've started kind of a fad about 10 years ago where more guys are doing this now.

They're putting shoots up on interwebs with some physical activity prior to or during, which, yeah, good. But I'm pretty sure I, you know, I made it cool. Well, the more people doing it, the better, right? Right. The more competition, the better. Yep. Yeah. It's just such a smart thing to think of if you really want to train the way you train and really want to think about, you know, like tactical situations and real-world application.

I mean, it's such a great way to go about doing it, and it looks exciting and fun. I mean, I haven't done it, but I'm sure it's fun. It's good. I talk a lot during my – now, during my courses, I don't do this stuff, know i'm not because i have i'll have 60 year old women in it i'll have uh guys with parkinson's even man come to my course i have guys in wheelchairs yeah how do you how do you stabilize a guy when they have parkinson's what is that's good that's so i what i showed this guy a trick what was his name see if i could remember his name it doesn't matter but he was 77 years old. And he said, well, I could either come to your course and train or lay on my couch and die.

It was to that effect because he liked to shoot. I said, bro, anytime. But I have to modify the course to him now because he can't even lay in the prone to zero. Right, right, right. So I would sit him on a cooler. and then i used uh you know furring strips are they hold up a target they're just two one by twos you know okay about five foot long i had him crisscross those and hold them and then to v-notch him and then put his rifle in that v-notch oh okay because he could sit up pretty good. He couldn't get in the prone.

He can't stand, shoot, but sitting pretty good. And when guys like that are concentrating more, you see that shake go away too. Hey, that's something we do at my gym too. We train Parkinson's, how to box Parkinson's patients. Really? It's a national program called Rock Steady Boxing huh

they come in three times a week where's your gym North Carolina what's it called so people can go there Spar Tech Spar

S-P-A-R like Spar and then T-C is it open to regular folks yeah it's open it it's it's yeah it's open um it uh it's it's very fight centric it's an mma gym so everything we do is very like fight centric with the with the physical work and the lifting and all that uh and then we have uh programs. Like, we got some really good fighters, man, who coach there.

I mean, they're, like, legit. So we got really good fighters who do, you know, one-on-one coaching, everything from Greco to BJJ to Thai Box to kickboxing to standard boxing uh it's it's a it's a neat place it's it's small it's warehouse it's very spartan you know it's not sexy at all perfect yeah it's my favorite kind of yeah it's freaking it's badass and so what do you do with these parkinson's people so the rock steady boxing uh folks they have a program. They come in a couple times a week and they put them through a series of exercises. A lot of it's just walking a straight line, holding this and loading one side. And then once they're all warmed up,

they all kid up. Man, you see these guys rapping and everything. They're so excited to get there, and they put their wraps on. And then they work a series of bag drills, a one-two lateral move. The next bag is hooks, left and right hooks. And there's an uppercut bag, and there's the double-end bag. And granted, they're not moving much, but they're moving. And they get there, and they love coming there. And some of them work up a sweat. It's pretty amazing seeing them get off their asses and get to the gym.

And I remember you put something out, and I pinged you like a year ago. Oh, it was on a podcast. out and I pinged you like a year ago. Oh, it was on a podcast. And you were getting pretty emotional about somebody not wanting to work out. And I pinged you and I said, I think I mentioned that. We got fucking Parkinson's people coming to my gym. Well, it's just when people make those excuses, it just drives me crazy.

Because I've seen examples. I've been very fortunate that I have good health but i've seen many examples and i've also been very fortunate that i never got out of shape i just kept working out my whole life but i've seen people that are fat as fuck 350 pounds just barely can get a get around and then they decide i'm gonna take control of my fucking health and then they just do it. They just do it. And even if you just got to walk around a block, even if you walk up flights of stairs, even if you just do a push-up, even if you do a sit-up, just do something, man. Do some bodyweight squats. Do something. It can be done.

Yep. You know, the journey of a thousand miles starts with that single step. And I have guys in my community who will say who will say yeah man i follow your stuff i'm sure out of shape and i don't have the time this and that's which is another excuse there's no such things i don't have the time get up an hour early now you have all the time in the world you got an hour workout i'll fuck you up in an hour right you come work out with me for one hour i will have you crying by the end of an hour that's plenty of time from warm up to cool down one hour done yep that's 100 yeah if you're if you're oh man and you man there's a my friend

you don't need more than that keith weber he has this extreme kettlebell cardio uh dvd it's it's available as a digital download though i can't even do 40 minutes of this motherfucker's workout with a 145-pound kettlebell. 40 minutes in, my legs are shaking, my arms are shaking. I'm walking like I blew both my fucking ankles out for the next couple of days.

It's ruthless. You can get a lot done in 40 minutes. There he is. He's a savage Yeah that guy's not shredded at all He does some crazy shit too He brings a kettlebell It's all on the beach

He just brings a pair of kettlebells on the beach And just fucking gets after it And you just follow along with him It's a great workout too because you're doing what he's doing So you know it's possible He's doing it right in front of your face. Right, right, yeah. You know, when it comes to, I'll tell guys, come to my gym once, just once.

Because all I need to do is bait the hook. Yeah. Get you feeling good. Yeah, yeah. And they say, well, I'm afraid you're going to smoke. I say, nope. and they say, well, I'm afraid you're going to smoke. I said, nope, because I run, whether it's shooting or the physical stuff I run,

I call it performance-based training. You know, I got this, it's recognized that we all perform differently. Performance is measured by doing what we can with what we have, blah, blah, blah. So it gives them permission to work within their capability level, not mine. So you don't need to replicate what I'm doing, bro. We're going to do these same movements, but I'm going to scale this to you, to your needs. And the other thing is I don't want you to be incapacitated. I don't want you to work out so hard that you're not able to move for the next three days. I have another rule is that you could work out as hard as you want in the gym,

but when you walk out that door that says exit, you got to be ready to kick somebody's ass. I mean, I don't like to work out to the point of being incapacitated. So there's a balance in that there, and I've figured it out. I've fucked that up many times. Many, yeah. And I think that's why i figured it out because too many times yeah i am for a whole weekend going oh my god yeah my freaking ass my thighs my what do you

do for recovery do you uh fuck around with cryotherapy or saunas or anything nothing dude nothing really no i nope nothing uh how come? I don't know. Because I haven't really needed it. Yeah. You should just get a sauna. Get a sauna in your gym. Yep. Just that alone.

Get a sauna and a fucking ice bath. Yeah. I drink beer for recovery. That's a nightly ritual. I will not be able to function if I don't. How many beers? Usually around four, but they're like good quality pints, you know?

I'm not like chugging, lugging NASCAR soda by the case. Right. Barley pops, but like good quality IPA stouts, porters, you know, that kind of thing. You just live for it? Yeah, I love it. I'm a hobbyist, man. Right.

I'm a hobbyist. That or bourbon. So I – That doesn't seem to go hand in hand in a lot of people's eyes. I know. With hard physical training. People are like, are you freaking kidding me? It's like, hey, man, I have a policy. My wife and I have a policy.

Every night is Saturday night, but every morning is Monday morning. Wow. I like it. So we go out almost every night. We go out. Because if I'm at home, I'm going to work. I'm going to work until I fall asleep. So that clock hits 6, 7 at night.

I'm like, all right, let me go meet my wife. She's getting off of work. We're going gonna go have a couple pints have a big old bourbon or something like that and uh yep i smoke cigars um dip uh how do you keep the thing is well that's what i'm gonna um diet it's all about diet i mean my diet's ridiculous and it's What do you eat? Predominantly, when I meal prep, it's collard greens, spinach, bell pepper, and chicken. That's it.

And then spice it up with salt, pepper, and garlic. So do you prep for the week? You make like a bunch of- Yeah, but it doesn't- I don't have a pot big enough to prep for the week. So I prep for like two, three days at a whack and just chow down and that's the other thing diet man you know there's what's dude what's the secret in diet eat food if food doesn't come in a bag or a box that's a product right shop at the periphery of a grocery store if you go into the guts all you're going in there is for coffee olive oil salt and that's it

yeah um that's a good way of looking at yeah just stay right stay on the outside that's where the meat and vegetables are yep beware of the inside just beware if you're going in there go with a purpose you know don't get uh don't get sucked into that cereal you like damn cocoa puffs i have cocoa puffs oh my god yep because that and then the older you get the less you could prop your body can't process that crap right so diet for me get up in the morning it's habitual full quarter water since i wake up full full quarter water first thing power slam yeah just don't even don't even set it down and then um why is that what's the thought process behind that i I'm getting that down.

I'm getting it in me. No wasting time. It's there for a reason. I want to, because you wake up dehydrated, I just want to power slam that and get it all into me. And then, you know, I eat a clean breakfast, like a couple of boiled eggs and some bacon. I eat a clean breakfast, like a couple of boiled eggs and some bacon. And then throughout the day, people say, well, is there a certain amount? Because too many people follow too many diets, which is good for them. If you're following a diet, kudos.

But like meal times and how many times a day. I eat when I'm hungry and I don't eat until I'm full. It's pretty freaking simple. You don't eat until you're full so you back off right yeah when you would you hit like 70 80 yeah about that something like that about that yeah and then part a portion of that is thinking well what if i got a sprint 400 yards you know or what if i got to kick somebody's ass right now right now and if i'm a hundred percent it's going to be shooting out of both ends right um so diet is freaking huge man huge but it allows me to drink those beers at night you know

it allows me to do stuff like that and then make sure i'm hitting it every day that uh you know the gym even if I'm on the road. I usually don't have time for seven days. And even if I did, I probably wouldn't. I'd probably take at least one day off, maybe two. But you know as well as I do that you are more in tuned when you get older to what your body's telling your brain. Your body, when you get older, says, you know what? Back the fuck off today.

You don't need to do this shit. And I listen to that, man. I do listen to that, too. That's so important to listen to that. There's those days where I'm like, man, I just feel a little off today. I'm like, am I being a pussy? I don't think so. I think I'm feeling off.

And then all of a sudden, my nose will start running. I'll start coughing a little bit. People around me are sick. I'm like, so Yeah right I think I'm feeling off And then all of a sudden I'll start My nose will start running I'll start coughing a little bit Right yeah yeah People around me are sick I'm like ah Lucky I listened Yep And then that cold

Will be gone in a day or two Yep Versus if I just go run the hills Right Yeah I'm gonna go Sweat it out That shit is not real No

People say sweat it out That is Unless you're getting in a steam room Or a sauna You ain't sweating out shit You're twisting your body up And you're probably gonna make steam room or a sauna, you ain't sweating out shit. You're twisting your body up, and you're probably going to make your immune system even weaker. Yep. When you were talking about those Parkinson's folks, when they come into your gym and they do that,

do they experience any benefit in terms of their function? Does it help them? Absolutely. Absolutely. And some more than others. Absolutely. And some more than others. Depends.

I think it depends on how, you know, what stage they're in, how long they've been there. But absolutely. We've got one guy who used to be a bow hunter and he can't anymore. So we got him replicating that motion with rubber bands. And, you know, he could barely do a small one initially. He gave it up because he thought, you know he could barely do a small one initially he gave it up because he thought you know what um it's not working for me so he kind of gave up but once we started working the rubber bands he started seeing you know results this is a 70 year old man with parkinson's he's like holy crap man i'm gonna be able to draw my bow again because I'm doing these exercises, you know. And, yeah, absolutely. With a lot of guys, especially with their balance, lateral movement.

That's one that I see a lot. You know, with the lateral movement, they're making big improvements with lateral movement. Yeah. What helps? Does weight training help them? I think it's just getting that body moving. And then with the boxing, it's that hand and eye coordination too. Being visually acute to the spot that you're supposed to hit on that bag every time. So it's a combination of the – because the weights are very, very minimal.

We don't want these guys to get jacked up. And the gal who runs it, Laura, is pretty – she's pretty cognizant of that, you know, about not wanting them to get jacked up. So their loads are very light when they do any kind of weight training. But I'd always wondered because it is a neurological disorder yep but uh you know what they benefit from it because they're getting out of the fucking house out of the hospital they're getting to a gym they're wrapping up they're motivated you know they're fired up to be there and you know they're not they're not it's obvious that they have parkinson's you know they're not uh you know running around the ring like roy jones you know they have Parkinson's. They're not running around the ring like Roy Jones.

But they're fired up to be there, and it's given them purpose. People need purpose. Speaking of that, when you retired from the military, did you envision yourself doing something along these lines, like teaching tactical stuff? Oh, man, I went through some rough patches. As most guys do, right? Yeah, man.

Man, it was – no, I morphed into who I am only in like the past six or seven years. I retired in 05. I got hired before I even retired by a corporation to do training stuff. And I kind of fell. I was almost falling into that rut of accepting mediocrity. Plus, what I didn't know is that I had depression. I didn't know that. Because you have no idea.

is that I had depression. I didn't know that. Because you have no idea. Which is common, especially in the spec ops world, guys retire. Because you've been there in units with guys, with the same guys for a long, long time. And there's a level of intimacy there that can't be replicated with another human being. And then when you retire, you miss that camaraderie, that connection. So I had, working for a corporation, I had a really bad relationship.

I was living in the bonus room of my garage. I'd lived there for five years because I had a ex who was, um, on chemistry, you know, prescription meds go big pharma. Um, and so the neuroreceptors were freaking gone. I mean,

delusional and, and, uh, it was, it was real bad. Uh, and then I started boozing, uh,

with depression. Um, and I, it, it, it didn't even occur to me that, dude, you got a fucking problem, man. It didn't even occur. I guess, which is common with a lot of guys. But I had an epiphany. A lot of things happened at one time. My local cops saved my life.

They said, bro, you need to get the fuck out of there. And a bunch of things happened all at once this was in 2013 um i didn't want to leave because i had little kids so i didn't want to i was i was gonna stay there and and just wither wither away um i and i almost capitulated to darkness. But I got up. Before I went to sleep one night, my kid is sleeping with me, and I'm hammered, and it's like 8 at night. And I had an epiphany.

I said, you know what? I can't do this, and I will not. I remember saying this to myself. I will not be defeated. I will not be defeated. And I put my running shoes by the side of my bed and some shorts, set my alarm clock, got up early the next morning, and went for a run. A la Forrest Gump. And I pounded the pavement for about 10 or 12 miles. And I'm not a runner, you know.

I like to run. I like to sprint. about 10 or 12 miles and i'm not a runner you know i like to run i like to sprint and when i came back from the run worked out in my driver for about an hour and uh my local cops came all happened at the same time and uh they came and uh said hey bro get the fuck out the kids be all right you need to do this and that. And then I started kind of figuring out, re-evaluating my path in life. Oh, back up a step. I also got laid off from this corporation. And, you know, with a guy in the military, you don't ever think about job security. And when I retired, I'm working for a corporation that was mostly made up of retired military guys.

So you get laid off and you're like, what the fuck am I going to do now? What does that even mean, getting laid off? What am I going to do? So all that shit happened at the same time. It was like this massive spiral of bad events. spiral of bad events. And, uh, man, I was able to, um, I was able to rekindle my own, my own, my own fire. Cause I recognize, all right, bro, you still got an ember. You still got this. All you need to do is just nurture that ember, turn it into a flame, turn that into a flame, and then just start adding wood, add wood, adding wood until it becomes just a perpetual, uh, blaze. And which led me to

this thing that I tell people now, you know, is that, uh, you got to keep the blaze alive. Um, I've got that on t-shirts even because I like, I like to kick people in the ass who are willing to sustain their own fire once they get that ass kicking. If they can't keep their fire going, then it's not worth it for me to keep kicking them in the ass. kicking him in the ass. Um, but, uh, uh, yeah. So ever since, uh, that point in time, you know, getting laid off the depression, the booze, and, uh, I was able to rediscover me and rebrand and, and, um, pretty much start from scratch. I mean, I had to start life all over again when I was 48 years old. Wow. Yep, the whole thing from scratch.

And I discovered social media and all this stuff because I met a gal, and I'm married to her now, and she's probably the best person, one of the best human beings I've ever met, you know, all around human being. So she was able to help me with that and said, hey, you need to do this. You need to get this social media platform or that one. And so it's detonated pretty well considering I've been on it a short amount of time.

But apparently the message is resonating. Yeah. So I'm happy with this. It's a genuine message. That's why I picked up. Yeah. So, I'm happy that it's- It's a genuine message. That's why I picked up on it. Oh, right on. Yeah. But I love that you figured your shit out.

I love that. That's my favorite thing. I mean, look, everybody's prone to mistakes and prone to depression, and people are prone to hitting rock bottom. Yep. Your life can go down a series of bad roads and you find yourself in a bad relationship or a bad job a bad situation in life and it's very very difficult at that moment to have faith and confidence that you can readjust reconsider and and re-engage and that's

what you did that's awesome i love that i love those kind of stories I love when people get their shit together and I think that that helps me help other people who are in the same you know because I could

I could relate and I don't you know I don't sit down with them and pat them on the shoulder and say hey bro you know I was there too or anything like that

I don't even share with them but I empathize and that's sometimes that's all it takes. You empathize and you just give them just a little bit of the right advice. Just a little bit. Not too much. Well, oftentimes people just need momentum.

They need one good day. You need one good day. That's what I said to that one guy. Just come to the gym one day. Yeah. If you have one good day Where you eat clean You drink a lot of water

Like you did You got that day You woke up You put your shoes on You went for a run You worked out your driveway You got a good day Yep

That's sometimes All you need to do And decide This is what I do from now on I have good days Yeah Tomorrow's gonna be Another good day

And then I'm gonna force myself Into another good day And the next thing you know I've got some momentum Right You got some momentum You could change everything yep i've i've felt many times in my life i've felt like i could slip the wrong way and i just i see it i see the dark hole and i go fuck that and just go the other go the other way the problem is when people fall

into that dark hole they think that that defines them but it's it doesn't right it doesn't define you it's just you right now you could be totally different tomorrow you're a human being you can think you can adjust and there's so much inspiration it's one of the beautiful things about your instagram page and many many other instagram pages is that you can take if you curate your feed correctly and you don't follow a bunch of knuckleheads you can go to your instagram or to whatever social media platform you like and you can go and check out a lot of cool shit oh man you feel good about it you get fired up and you want to do good with your life yep i i uh i am i love being inspired by other guys that i follow on social media uh i'm a motivator, but I like to be motivated too.

Yeah, me too. So I love, I've met a lot of really cool people on those platforms, you know, sitting across from you, for example. And it's not,

because too many guys, especially like my age, are afraid of it. You know, they're afraid of those platforms and saying, hey bro, you don't have to, you you know you don't have to go crazy on it but you should you know at least uh check this out and check that out you don't have to follow thousands of things well people see like emojis and sponsored posts and like what the fuck is

going on what am i doing here i'm 50 years old The fuck is this? But you're right, too, about we are human beings and we are allowed to err. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, in most cases, it is a biological requirement for us to jack shit up. Yeah, I think so. But when we do, all we need to make sure is that it doesn't become a recurring theme, that we learn from the past, prepare for the future, perform, and live in the present. We've been blessed with a very, very short existence on a planet that amazes me that can nurture and sustain freaking life in a solar system that can do the same. I like to feel insignificant and small, like looking up at the stars through a telescope.

It's like, damn, man, I'm freaking nothing. I am nothing. I can see the Andromeda galaxy through my telescope. And that's the closest one that we can see. And there's billions of stars in that galaxy. And guess what? There are billions of galaxies just like that. I mean, I am so freaking insignificant.

So let me make the best of this time that I have on this planet with these other several billion people. on this planet with these other several billion people. Because, I mean, just the fact that I am a human being, that our strands of DNA wrapped in protein and thrown in with some amino acids, it's mind-blowing that I'm, you know. You're a thing. Yeah, that I'm, you know You're a thing Yeah, that I'm a thing

Yeah, no, I feel the same way all the time It's so easy to get wrapped up in your own day-to-day existence And weird little dumb things And if there's only little dumb things in your life too Those dumb things become huge When you have big things in your life It's easy to look at those dumb things and brush them off when you're you're really working hard at something and you have a lot of positive positive things going on in your life then then it's easier like it's one of the

good things about really hard exercises it's very difficult to do so when you go to a very difficult real or real difficult physical struggle the All the little bullshit seems like nothing. It just really gets exposed for what it really is. Yeah. What it really is. It just seems like a big deal in the moment, in the time. But that's just a trap because your body needs something to think about. Your body's always worrying.

Your brain is always focusing on danger. You're worried about threats and predators. And if there's no predators then it's fucking microaggressions then it's uh you know it's this guy looked at me funny at the office it's like uh this bitch is always parking in the spot i want you know like people get weird you get you start focusing on nonsense on the minutiae yeah but i think i think that's one of the primary benefits of physical exercise is not just that it blows out all that excess energy that i think your body stores up and i always the way i was described is that a person's body is almost

like a battery that's leaking energy like you gotta purge it you gotta purge it of that excess energy because it has certain physical requirements then on top of that the physical difficulty of you know running a hard you know two three miles in the mountains or wherever you're at or doing like, you know, crazy CrossFit workout or whatever the fuck you like to do, taking a jujitsu class. That shit is so hard that all that other nonsense in your life gets, it puts into perspective. Then from there, then look up. Then look up at the whole stars and go, man, you're just lucky to be experiencing this. Right.

To be able to think about this to be this person that's living in the most amazing time ever for human beings to be spinning around on this ball flying through infinity it's nothing but gravy it provides you with with great uh with like centering balance you know yeah and perspective yeah and um man what else you said something that did uh you know we talked about that uh people focusing on the minutiae oh another thing um you were saying how it's just it's a sticking point with me is all is um how uh you know we human beings primal oural thought, we worry about dangers and stuff like that. But man, it's amazing how many people nowadays have relinquished their primal defense mechanisms of awareness and mobility, all that they've like just given they've given up their fat dumb lazy happy button pushers flaccid and complacent and um just walking around a 45

degree syndrome yeah i'm on that bus today going just to go to the rental car place from lax and everybody's on the phone which you know there's times you could be in the white but I look around I go well looks like I'm on security right now because nobody else is thinking you know gonna see this or that happen yeah there's a ton of people that are just staring at their phone all day long and not paying attention to their surroundings at all it's not that you need to all the time most of the time you don't but the time when you do boy that could change your life or the life of your loved ones yeah yep and and walking around the streets is not the time to do it you know there's a time to be in the white

and you know when you know i'm talking about with the white like cooper's color code white to black white is like zombie mode. And that's me in my house in my ranger panties watching TV or whatever. That's the time when you're allowed to be in the white, where black is you're fighting for your life. It's horrible, horrific, terrifying. But in the streets the streets You gotta be At least in the yellow Yeah

You know Just Have your wits about you A little bit So let me take you back To when you decided To get your shit together again Yeah

So you decide to get Your shit together again You begin the process Yep And then how did you get To where you're at now Well I Getting laid off

Was scary as hell But sometime You know When you're at now well i um getting laid off was scary as hell but sometime you know when you're in crisis mode like that you you think most efficiently there's a there's a there's a there's a series of things that happen one is you know you get scared to death right laid off scared i think that was the first one scared and then angry and this is over a couple days you know and then focus when i got focused i built my company t-max um i mean i just thought of everything you know i just had one epiphany after you ask what am i going to call it you know let me just make up an acronym that sounds cool and then cover all the bases training marketmanship adventure concept security i covered everything t-max and then um uh and then um man shit just it i was so freaking fortunate because shit fell into place for me

i had guys who were who i trained for this corporation call the corporation and say hey we want uh you know pat mac to come train us again they said well he's no longer here but we could have somebody else do it they were like no we don't want somebody else you know we want we don't care what it's called or what you're branding it we want this guy doing it so they were able to get in contact with me it was a big contract and then another one came up and then another one all in the same year i was like it's all tactical training yeah and it was all so that year was complete um and then i had a bunch of different uh you know lessons learned like government contracts shit like sequestration

remember that 2013 with anyway sequestration so government contracting and stuff like that it all went away so there was a time in 13 where i didn't work for six months you know it's it's scary when you're working on your when you're doing everything for and by yourself all your own admin and everything like that it could be it's very exciting but scary as shit yeah, it's very exciting, but scary as shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, damn man. You know, I keep jamming.

I don't care how much stuff I have in the pipe. I keep jamming more shit. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but once, uh, so I had those government contracts,

then I just, I just built momentum and then started learning. All right, let's get rid of this. Let's do more of this. Let's do more of this. Let's not do focus on that. Let's focus on this. Uh,

and, um, it grew, it grew into a, um, into a very, it's like self-fulfilling machine. You know,

it's a, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's running, running very well right now but it was not easy getting there i mean there was a lot of bumps and obstacles in the road but i tell guys that all the time man any any any road worth traveling you're probably you're

gonna have obstacles in it there's gonna be temptation like shortcuts you know nope stay on that road bro stay on that road, bro. Stay on that road. Go through those potholes. Go over those freaking bumps. This road, it's going to suck. But after a while, it'll smooth out. And sure enough, you know, my road smoothed out and the bumps are few and far between right now.

So, yeah, man, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life, probably, right now. 54 years old, and it's like I've grown up. But that's smart. I mean, if you're a person who's thinking and trying to do better with your life, you should be at your best right now. Yep. You should be at your best with how you perceive things, how you decide to approach things, how you look at things. So when you're doing these tactical courses and you're traveling so much, that's very hard on your body.

Cool. That's probably one of the hardest things on your body, right? All that travel. Yeah. Especially – so I travel with two big cases because I have a gun case and a gear case. And you become a travel pro, but it still sucks. You get up early, drive an hour to the airport, wait an hour to get your plane, take that plane to this place, and then another plane to this place, get in your rental car, go to your hotel, check in. It's got to be a pain in the ass to travel with the guns too, right?

Yeah. Well, only because it's different in every airport. Yeah. In Alaska, they're used to guns. They're like, yeah, come on in. Yeah. Alaska, Wyoming, places like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. But it's different in every airport. So there's no consistency. Even though I know what the webpage says. I know what it says. Right. But they don't know what it says. They have no idea.

When I travel with my bow, I find that. LAX. Right. Depending upon who I talk to. Some people, I go, yeah, it's a bow. What are you doing? Oh, I bow hunt. They go, okay, cool.

Yeah, right. It's fine. Other people are like, I don't think you can travel with this. I definitely can. Yeah, right. Get your manager. Right. Let's go to the website.

Jesus Christ. And give myself an extra hour just in case shit like that happens. Yeah, right. Get your manager. Right. Let's go to the website. Jesus Christ. And, you know, give myself an extra hour just in case shit like that happens. Yeah, and I do that. Definitely. I give that, I plan for that extra hour just in case I got a piss and moan. Right. But some of them are real smooth. Yeah.

You know, airports are real smooth. Others are a pain in the dick. But people must look at you weird, though, right? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, they know me at my airport. But you're also in North Carolina. Right. It's a different animal, too.

When you bring something like that to California, people are like, oh. California is not as horrible as some other states. Not Second Amendment heaven. Yeah, but it's not as horrible as some other states. What's the worst? New York. Oh, yeah. That's the worst. Forgetork oh yeah that's forget

about it yeah you can't even have a handgun it's so hard to get a handgun yeah that you see yeah like new jersey new york connecticut um yeah states like that oh jesus freaking yeah they have very strange gun laws there i guess it's just because they've got so much violence they thought that that was the solution yeah yeah i don't know i don't know so do you uh what do you enjoy the most do you enjoy doing the social media stuff do you enjoy doing the tactical training like what do you enjoy doing the most um i i i like doing i like doing the the workout stuff more than anything uh because i think with that i reach and help more people even if they could be um it's amazing it's it's amazing it's it's like you know i have so many i don't know how this

has happened but i bet i have morphed into this guy who people rely on to motivate them and they tell me bro you're you're motivating the hell out of me, which fires me up. As my buddy CJ says, what motivates a motivator, tell them you're motivating them. So I love doing that stuff because it touches a lot of people, regardless of their age or their physical ability. And a lot of guys may be bedridden with an illness or something like that and uh it'll fire them up so i like doing that stuff i think next would be the um the shooting thing i mean i love it i love running courses and meeting new people i meet a dozen new people every week and from all walks of life and uh all different reasons, motivations for doing it.

Yep. And guys, you know, they'll ask me during the classes, they say, bro, how do you stay motivated to do these almost every week? And I say, because I get to meet guys like you, bro. I mean, it's as simple as that. Yeah. If you find enthusiastic people and you're teaching them, that helps a lot. Yep.

Yeah. So, you know, I like to fire people up but i like to get it in return do you find a lot of guys that are also retiring from the military they they want to talk to you about this because they're trying to figure out their path uh a couple of them have hit me up and i am man open arms i'm like let me show you whatever you want to know because i've figured this out so yep i'm your huckleberry uh it's not many of them but there have been there'll be you know half dozen a year who who will ping me hey i want to get into the training industry right like there's plenty of room for it every guy that i know that's

either been spec ops seal whatever they've been they retire, it's one of the hardest moments of their life. Yeah. It's so hard for them to find some purpose. Mm-hmm. And there's, it's hard for them to find roots, just to really feel like they belong again, because that life is so intense. Yeah. Because you have, you know, you have meaning. Yeah. You know, and it's selfless.

You're doing something bigger than yourself yeah and so yeah because you want once again if you're just in a if you just find a let's say a job where you're working and maybe even working for the man there's no more there's no meaning there you're not doing you're not a part of something bigger than yourself right so i always tell guys hey when whenever you get out whenever you separate especially if you've got you know 20 plus years and that's a long time you are going to be adversely affected no matter how badass you are upstairs you're going to be right some degree yeah um you know it could be a little depressed. It could be a lot. But if you find something, and it could be working for a charity, you know, whatever.

If you find something that where you could with impunity go to sleep and look forward to the next day. Where you say, man, tomorrow's going to be freaking awesome. I can't wait because I got this project pending and I'm going to help so many people be better people. Then if you could do that, I mean, find that instead of just, you know, getting stuck in a rut, you know, instead of accepting mediocrity. Yeah.

Because that meaning, purposefulness getting stuck in a rut you know instead of accepting mediocrity yeah but uh because that meaning purposefulness and and and selfless being doing something selfless and being a part of something bigger than yourself is freaking huge do they prepare you at all when you're getting ready to retire they say good luck yep sayonara they just figure you're a badass you figure it out wow yep i mean you're making the choice because you can stay i you know i could have stayed in another 10 years or what have you so you're doing it you're making that choice why did you decide to leave um there was a uh you know kind of a defining moment i had to do some soul searching searching. Um, it was all, I had 22 years in, I lost a couple of buds, uh, at that moment.

And I had two little kitties at home. So I had to do some soul searching and I thought, well, will there'll be, will there'll be, will there be any regret whatsoever? And I, and I thought, man, I pretty much I've done it all. I, you know, as far as I thought, man, I've pretty much done it all. As far as Special Ops goes, I am not going to have any regrets. Because that was a big thing. Will I regret this? And I said to myself, no, I won't. So I decided to retire with 22.

And it was all Special Ops. I was very fortunate. My whole career was Special Ops, the whole thing um but i did regret it after i mean it didn't take long it was you know when it got worse every year that passed they got worse and worse and i was like man i should have just stayed well it's got to be so hard even for not just for you but for i mean not just for the soldiers but for the wives yeah like to know that the husband is constantly in these crazy situations overseas constantly in these very very dangerous environments yep the stress of that yeah i i i think it takes a special kind on both sides you know and usually And usually spouses have a pretty good support mechanism too

with the units and other spouses and that kind of thing. Right. So, yeah, usually they're pretty tough. They get used to it. Yeah, I guess. You know, it becomes a way of life. It becomes a normal. Right.

Yeah. But, yeah, still miss it. I'm sure. Yeah sure yeah well everyone i talk to does you know have you ever read um sebastian younger's book tribe oh yeah yeah i just just recently i didn't i i uh listened to it yeah yeah freaking badass yeah i loved it yeah he's great reading it too it's a it's an excellent book. Yep. And does it explain in your eyes? I thought he did a pretty good job with that whole thing.

Yep, yep, absolutely. Yep. I thought he was pretty much spot on. I was north and south in my head as I was driving down I-95 listening to that book. head as i was driving down i-95 listening to that book so it's safe to say that you went through this period post-military where you just were really just trying to find yourself again but then you caught it yeah and then you caught it and now you seem like you're in your glory oh hell yeah like i said i really enjoy your page man oh right on thanks it's intense and you're it's and you're also kind of you're a, but you're fun with it.

You're having a good time. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I love doing it. I love both doing the YouTube channel and the IG. And I put some thought into it. And your wife helped you with this stuff?

Yeah. She helped me set stuff up. Because I didn't know what any of this stuff was so we got married and we met in 13th like fall of 13 and then the first social media platform i had was facebook because somebody's posing as me oh that's hilarious so in order to report them I needed to get an account on Facebook. And then once I did, a friend requested this guy who was posing as me. And anyway. What did he say?

Why was he doing it? I figured it out. I did some detective work. But he was posing as me because he wanted to bash somebody else in the gun industry and pose as somebody credible in the industry. somebody else in the gun industry and pose as somebody credible in the industry so this guy that he was bashing contacted me and said hey why are you saying this and i don't talk shit about anybody right so i'm like bro i think you got the wrong guy and i said just call me up here's my hilarious yeah and uh we had a chit chat and he goes oh man I got some bad news for you you do have a Facebook account and he sent me a link

and everything yeah but so I started that one I already had a couple YouTube videos up but then

I just went full bore with it you know went kind of bat shit and then the the IG was fun man

when Rebecca my wife showed me that that was probably i think uh i think five i'm five years into that and i figured it out you know what my audience wants you know i pay attention to you know that the the uh analytics do you really yeah i yeah only because um yeah because i want to right yeah because i want to give them what they want versus me what do you get out of the analytics what does it show the the age group the time of day you know those kind of things but also the amount of views and uh what's the other word the uh not views but um the reach yep so you know what's the uh it's the the videos do the best and uh if they're short like i do a lot of around the combat strength training so i I supplement my e-book with little workout snippets. Hey, this is another example of a power thing, blah, blah, blah.

So I put information in there as well. I jot down info. So make sure you work in a transverse plane, humma, humma, rate of force production, no speed, no power, blah, blah, blah. And this could be supplemented with a resistance band instead of a weight. So I pay attention to that stuff because that's what people want. That's where I get the most feedback. Guys are like, bro, thank you so much for putting this out.

I'm like, all right, man. So I know for a fact that I'm helping people, or if I put maybe a course of fire out or talk about a specific way to clean and break down a 1911. You know, whatever. When I put out information, it resonates better

and it seems that it's more palatable with the masses of people who are following me. Because I get a lot, and I answer all those freaking comments. Do you really?

A lot of them. I mean, I'll spend. How can you do that? I spend. How many followers do you have a lot of them i mean i'll spend you do that i spend how many followers do you have on ig 160k how the fuck can you possibly answer all those things a lot of them are just but you know hitting the like right and sometimes that means a lot to people man you know i'll have guys screenshot and pat max liked my comment you know um but uh it's a couple hours i'll spend i think two hours a day is what i do on the association like email then i could get to work you know i don't have to fuck with that anymore um but it's usually about that much well your page makes me want to take a tactical course

so if somebody wanted to do that where would they go They go to my website, tmaxinc.com. Do you ever do any of them out here in LA? Yeah. I used to come out here all the time. The only reason, and it's not the gun thing, just I'm getting travel wary, man. That three-hour time zone smokes the shit out of me. Yeah. You ever go to Australia?

No. I've been invited to do courses there, but there's a whole new – another thing with training overseas. It's a state department, department of state thing and ITARs and all that. It's a pain in the dick. Oh, I'm sure. So I'm not trying to blow those guys off. Here it is. Take a live CST course.

Oh, yeah. The CST course – I don't do them live much anymore only because they didn't sell in Philwill because people would – I think they thought that it was going to be a beatdown. Oh, that you were going to go and kick their asses? Right, but it's a lot of information and a lot of feel and stuff out. Right. So what is a CST course? What does that mean? What is a CST course?

What does that mean? Well, it's basically replicating what I have in that e-book. And people say, bro, put this book in hardcover. It's 35 pages, man. It's not cost productive. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just download it and print it out, would you?

Oh, my God. What is a CST course? A CST course would replicate what i have in that book within a day's period okay so it's a good supplement for those who have the book because i do all the classroom with the whiteboard stuff you know you break the work week down power day strength rate speed and quickness hypertrophy skills and then uh talk about you know, eccentric, concentric, isometric, transverse, sagittal. Where'd you learn all this stuff? Got to have NASM. You know, National Academy of Sports Medicine.

Because I wanted to, you know, it's a freaking piece of paper. Took me six months to get. But I wanted to have a piece of paper to back up certified right yes and that was the closest thing that I found to

what I was putting out and it it was pretty spot on only mine's way cooler you know it's not like the lame

you know health club version got it right more tactical and practical right yep yeah yep so the class would basically just encompass what's in the book in a one day period and now it's more like tangible because see people aren't touching it feeling it seeing it you know these certain exercises versus seeing a picture of it right But there's a lot of good information in that book.

And then I supplement both my YouTube channel and the IG with all these other little snippets. Man, I put out a lot of information. I mean, a lot. So people won't get bored because I don't want people to get bored with the workout. All I'm doing is teaching them how to cook and then showing them ingredients. And now go cook your own meal. And here's, you know, here's some other recipes.

Right. Throw these, throw these ingredients into your, into your pot. So that's what I do with the social media platform is I supplement that with, you know, whatever.

I'll come up with some dumb ass name for some movement that I'm doing. But they're good, functional, safe, low-impact movements that encourage self-preservation, longevity, and fitness and not brokenness. Too many, oh my God. Too many guys, especially older guys,

doing herky-jerky stuff and and uh getting hurt in the gym especially when they take a long time off and they forget that their body's 56 right not 26 right yeah yeah super common yeah so when you if people go to your is it is a combat strength training.com so what it's called for the cst but that's not for my courses that's right i'm but my tactical stuff is T-Max Inc. Oh, okay. Is there a link to that from there? Yeah.

T-Max is my, that's who I am. So T-Max Inc. And then from there, there's all of the, uh, there's. Discover Performance. Yep. Yep. Handsome bastard. Nice jacket too.

Yeah, man. So this is all like, it's got a lot of your videos up there it shows you what you're doing yep and it's got all the courses and it's got a badass store too man i got some booty on that store so oh tools oh get you some so when you're when you're putting all these different workouts together um how much how much do they change do the like when you if someone goes to your your website and wants to follow your courses right the physical stuff yeah oh the the the the core um workout doesn't change that much the movements do so i break the work week down into a pot like monday for instance, power day.

Then strength day, speed and quickness, hypertrophy, skills. And then there's a couple because people don't have five days. You could lump, for instance, speed and power. You could lump strength and hypertrophy. So the gist stays the same power day work in you know anaerobic chunks in circuit to near metabolic threshold to meet anaerobic goal pick you five good power exercises make sure that two of them are in transverse plane um and if they got the book they'd be able that would could sustain them for just with that for let for, let's say, I don't know, whatever, months without getting bored. But they definitely want to go to some of the stuff that I put on the interwebs to help sustain and keep the ideas fresh.

Right. Because we don't want to fall into that, once again, that rut of complacent adaptation. We're doing the same shit over and over and over, day by day. Too many guys do that. Right. And it's not healthy. I noticed you incorporate a lot of martial arts stuff, too. Yep.

Like, you were doing some arm drags the other day. Yep. Yeah, like, what do you do? You just do this for, like, practical applications in a street fight scenario? Right. Yes. like practical applications in a street fight scenario or yes so yeah i got i'm a big fan of different different fight uh and you're doing all this stuff you do it with shoes on because this is how you're going to be in real life yeah most of the time i mean i don't go into our fight room

with shoes on because it's got mats in there it's nice so you know when we when we when we grapple and work even work bags i'm i'm barefooted usually, there's a lot of times I'm working out in these with a gun on, too. It's just an appendix carry under my T-shirt. Just so you keep it unloaded? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the chamber? Correct. Just so you know where it's – because it impedes your movement a little bit?

Yep. Just to make sure that it doesn't impede my movement. Right. But just to know where it's at. Right. Okay. So there's a place where you can keep it where it's at. Right, to be. So there's a place where you can keep and where you can move just as well.

And so this dude that you're working with, he's a wrestler. Yeah, he's good, man. Randy's good. And what is he working with you on? You're just working on... This was... We're not the sharpest right here

because this was after a power workout. We're smoked, right? We're smoked. And all we're doing here is just control. Just stand up for control, you know? And I used to be a good wrestler, but my game is off. But that was decades and decades ago. So Randy's getting in.

He's training for a competition. A jiu-jitsu competition? he's training for a competition. A jiu-jitsu competition? I think he's, it's a kind of a mixed wrestling, jiu-jitsu competition.

I think he's doing the wrestling. I'm pretty sure. So I said, hey bro, let's start mixing it up. I want to get back into you know,

rolling some more because I'm bigger than he is. So it'll be good for him because I'm bigger and stronger than he is. So, and then it'll be good for me too. I'm, I'm, I used to do a lot of fight training,

especially a boxing, kickboxing, a little tentative on getting punched in the face anymore. Yeah. Not good for your head. Yeah. I have degenerative spine. What's wrong with your neck?

Degenerative spine. So degenerative disc disease right you know they there's that's very controversial you know you know a lot of people say that it's a disease but then i talk to a physiologist and they say well what it is is pressure on your discs because you're lifting a lot of weights or you're involved in something that presses down on you and then your discs degenerate it's not like a disease that's causing your discs to go away yeah that that disease air quotes almost always happens in people that are involved with very strenuous physical exercise yep and so there's different ways you can kind of mitigate some of that stuff do you ever do spinal decompression uh no i have no i haven't done that one man there's a harness that you could buy on amazon it's like 39 bucks you hang from a door yes and you pull that

click click click click click and it stretches sometimes just that alone give you a lot of relief you know i do have an inversion table and that's freaking those are great i have one of those too yeah those are great and then there's another machine called a reverse hyper that's fantastic for your lower back. I'll show it to you outside. Right on. We have one in the other, in the gym area. But that also actively decompresses and then strengthens all those muscles around your back as well. But the stuff with the neck too, there's another, there's a bunch of different things you could do.

I mean, I don't know if you do any neck exercises. Do you fuck with anything? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least once a week. And I've got to, yeah. I always tell guys, dude, you've got to work your neck, man.

It supports the command center. Right, right, right. You have to. Now, you said it's disc degeneration, so you don't want to get choked. Is that what it is? You don't want to get your neck manipulated? Yeah, because like my distal phalanges, there's numbness there.

Okay, yeah. And like sleeping, I have to sleep like a corpse. So there's no rolling or anything. Just straight corpse. So the numbness indicates there's something pressing on your... Right. Yeah, that decompression device will help you a lot. I got to try it. It's cheap too. Like I i said it's like 30 bucks or 39 bucks something like that but

that that sucker man i get in that thing and click click click click click it's like i'm hanging a little bit just it feels good just alleviates tension if you could do that every day for a few minutes you know that the inversion table all those things you can keep all that stuff healthy yeah i i and it feels good i just don't want to get punched in the face anymore yeah i've been punching the face a lot i hear you man i'm not into it either it's just the brain is not designed to get right it's one of the things that i do like about jiu-jitsu more than anything is that you can go hard and you're not you know you're not hitting each other it's just there's a big difference you can get a full 100

exertion exercise workout in without you know risk of hurting each other especially if you go with a good guy yeah and my the guys i work with are man their fight is way better than mine so uh they know how to train yeah you know they're not gonna they're not gonna so important so important you know because i've been i've been doing fight stuff for a long long time and i've been fortunate that there's always there was always somebody better looking out for me and say hey let's work this or work that or you know just tweaking just making those tweaks yeah that's what i was going to ask you do you do you do any ground training do you do any jiu-jitsu not Not enough. Not enough. Not enough. Nope. And like I said, my coaches are really good, but I don't do enough of it.

How come? I don't have a good reason. Yeah. And I just said that to them. I just said, hey, guys, I have to do more. I got to do more ground stuff. They're like, right on. Yeah.

Yeah. Get in there, man. It's humbling. Yeah. People like to avoid it do you know um i mean we i i do it but not but not enough right yeah i'm very comfortable on my feet um uh my my my level of confidence uh on um you know being able to to punch somebody's mouth loose without them even knowing what happened is pretty – I'm pretty confident there with the likelihood of who I'm going to tussle with.

That's the thing though, right? Yeah. that's the thing though right and plus I have moxie you know I got a lot of attitude and that goes a long way you know having that that kutzpah that attitude sometimes it's equally important to have that I have a thing

in my head that says I can beat anybody at anything it doesn't have to be true but that's what i hear in my head the problem with that is when it's obviously that's not true right then you're like fuck yeah now what and then uh then you get experience experience is something you get shortly after you need it yeah yeah it's uh it's it's interesting that you combine those things though that you have this uh gym where there's all this martial arts stuff and then the tactical stuff what do you do to chill out because it seems like everything is fucking go go go go go everything is lifting weights shooting and pulling ropes and shooting and arm dragging and shooting what do you

do to calm yourself i am am hobby heavy. Hobby heavy. Well, you show me your drawings. Yeah, I do. You're very talented. So I draw. I bird watch. Bird watch. Yep.

I've been a bird watcher since I was 10 years old. Really? Yep. Golf. I go down this list. Guitar, drums, cook. Let me see here. I got so many freaking hobbies.

It's ridiculous. But the good thing about most of them is I could go to them and it doesn't take me a lot of time or energy to invest in it. Fishing, I'm a big time fisherman, outdoorsman, woodsman type of thing. I love that stuff.

I get into the Rocky Mountains at least once a year and do like privation training, know just on my own so like what do you do when you do that like just camp out there and live off the land yeah try to yep try try to sustain you know with what i have and what's available to me and it also you do that once a year? Yeah. And it also includes orienteering. So, you know, one over 24,000 scale topographical map. And so orienteer in. And these are wilderness areas, not like national parks or forests. And then try to hunt a killer, eat it, you know, along the way.

I carry enough food so I'm not going to be miserable, so I'm not going to suffer. How many days do you do when you're out there? Well, now that I'm retired, not four to five anymore. You were like bringing a rucksack or something like that? Yep, yep. So I pack in whatever I need. And packing a ruck, it's artwork, man.

Sure. Even if you've been in the military forever, you just never, ever get that down to a perfect science. Right, especially a weight. Yeah, because you've got weight, you've got terrain, you've got the situation may dictate to strip this and add that, and then where are you going to put it. Do you bring satellite phone or anything when you do it?

I do. I bring one of those. Smart. You don't want to roll an ankle out there. Well, plus I usually go to Montana like Bob Marshall, so that's the highest concentration of grizzlies. Grizzlies. Yeah. So you're not on the top of

the food chain man there's some big hungries out there that's a fucking scary spot yeah well it's it's always usually pretty good unless you run into a female yeah with their cubs yep that's that's when it gets super sketchy i just wrote i just wrote about that um that's another i write so i write for a ballistic magazine and um combat handguns and i just wrote an article about that wouldn't ballistic uh about what should be in your personal survival kit you know let's say you go on a day fishing trip in alaska what should what do you have in that thing you know in the event that you need to go into contingency planning mode that shit hits the fan you got to have something on you instead

of just your your orvis fly rod and a couple bead heads yeah the big debate with uh hunters is should you bring bear spray or should you bring a pistol yep especially both yeah smart yep anytime bear country i bring both i got them both on and i've talked to a lot of grizz hunters, and I put that in that article, too. It's like, guys, I've done some research here. But yeah, so I'll bring both. Have you had any encounters when you're out there? I've had almost every year. Really? The closest one, 15 yards.

Man. Jesus. Yeah. That was the first time ever up there, too. And I'm smoked. I at the end this is when i was doing i started doing these when we were when i was active so bringing up unit guys and this one was 95 miles long we walk from um a little spot on the map oh columbia falls south of columbia falls montana to um lincoln the home of Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber.

Really? Yeah, yeah. That's where he lived? Yeah. So walk this stretch, and it's 95 miles, right, north to south. And you've got to cross like three different mountain passes, and it's a smoker. So I think it was the fifth day because we had one more RO and one more rest overnight. And on the fifth day, we would walk like lines of drift and stuff like that.

And whenever I couldn't see 25 yards up ahead of me, I would clap my hands, make some racket, coming through. That kind of thing. Yeah. Because grids want nothing to do with you. Right. You get in between their young, their food source, or you startle them. That's when you run into trouble. Right.

So I did not want to, and here I am, and I've got six guys with me, but they're lagging behind. And I, you know, coming through, and I look up ahead, and this gigantic male stands up. Bagooge! And the only thing that I could see, my only reaction was, whoa! I mean, I was just blown away. Just think, 15 yards is less distance than you flew when you crashed into the deer. Right, right.

You flew in the air. So you could fly in the air and pass that bear by five yards. That's right. Wow. He took off. Boom. he was gone jesus lucky yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because i mean that's a lot that's a lot of animal yeah i tell you when you're standing like in the woods in the wild 15 yards 15 15 yards and when that thing stood up That's all I could That's all I could

I mean I had a gun And bear spray on him I went for neither of them All I could think was Whoa And then when he took off My next thought was Where's my camera

Oh Jesus Well that's nature's Clean up crew right there Yeah Anything that limps Oh man Falls down Yeah

Fucks up Yep That's what it's there for That's why there's a thousand pounds of them. Man. It needs to keep eating. Yeah. It's a majestic animal.

Yeah. You see one in the wild, you realize, like, wow, like, this is just, nature has a system. Yep. They know what they're doing. When they want to get rid of a moose, they send one of these motherfuckers in there. Yep. I mean, really. Yeah. they send one of these motherfuckers in there yep i mean really yeah so when you're doing these um these things are you keeping a journal when you're doing these these trips while you're by yourself

um i usually don't go by myself i usually have strap hangers and they're different every year and it's a lot of times just like this you know a couple guys talk and say oh man i'd like to do that with you oh well just send me an email and I'll send you the dates. Oh, wow. Because one is securities and numbers. Right. Especially in Grizz country. Yeah.

Plus I like teaching stuff. So I'll have guys who I could teach like orienteering and field craft, making a fire with sticks and that kind of thing. The right way to maybe to prep and cook a trout. know field craft you know making a fire with sticks and kind of that kind of thing and uh the right way to uh maybe to prep and cook a trout you know uh so do you bring a rod with you yeah yeah yeah yeah that's one of them small breakdown rods yep i'll bring a five i i'll bring two of them i'll bring a telescope telescoping uh tenkara and a four-piece like a five-weight orvis okay so that's a fly rod then yeah okay because i am for me that's sustenance because i'm not taking a lot of food plus i want to fish i want it to be time off right and i want to chill i don't want to just work my ass off when

i'm on these so i'm out there ripping lips but I'm eating two of them in the morning and two at night. And then it's a lot of fun. I've been doing these things now since 98, I think. That's a great way to decompress too, right? Yeah. The places I go, one of them, I will lose cell phone coverage an hour before I hit the end of the dirt road. Yep.

And then you stop the car. You're at the end of the road. Now you're already in. You're just at the edge of the wilderness area deep into a national forest. Right. And then into the wilderness for however many days and miles. You run into other folks when you're out there? Very rarely.

The best, you know, I loved walking like on the 95-mile one and seeing nobody. Yeah. Nobody. Yeah, I mean, these places are remote. The Frank Church in Idaho. Idaho, yeah. I walked the Wind River in Wyoming.

The Frank Church, I walked from the town of Salmon to McCall. That one smoked me. How far is that? On a scale of things, as a crow flies, it's not that far. I think it's 60 miles or something, but it's straight up, straight down. Straight down, yeah. The most horrific and just terrifying terrain. I mean, especially if your objective is to move from point A to point B and not just an out and back.

Let me see how far I can go. No, when you got somebody picking you up at point B and you have to be there, oh, man, it is a freaking smoker. Yeah, I've never been to the Frank Church, but my friend Ryan Callahan was living up there for a long time. It's cool. He says it's amazing up there. It's also so remote, but yet it's so close to Boise. It's not that far. Right, right.

Yeah, the grand scale things, it's not that far. But when you have these wilderness areas like, I don't know, let's say it's 500 million square acres or whatever it is, you know, that's also encompassed by national parks and stuff. Yeah. And, you know, national parks will have dirt roads in them and they'll have little scatterings of population here and there. But those wilderness areas, there's nothing in those. Yeah. Just animals. Yeah. There's no in those. Yeah, just animals. Yeah, there's no dirt roads.

And it's such a complete ecosystem too. I mean, they have everything from wolves to grizzlies to mule deer to elk. It's all living up in there. Yeah. Yeah. They are cool. I mean, I love doing those too because you have to think,

there is an element of danger here that can kill me. And it's not just a big hungry. You could get cut and die out there because nobody's coming to get you. Even if you got that beacon, you know, Forest Service and stuff, they're probably busy servicing, you know, probably busy servicing you know grandma broke a leg trying to take a picture of a bison in this national park coming into that national that wilderness area you know there's no hlz's there and stuff like that right so man i love that that element of danger especially since i retired you know i want to be cold tired hungry and maybe a little scared um and i want that several times a year because uh yeah it's you know it's primal right and i think most guys need that guys

yeah no i think so too dude you're living a fun life man yeah i i enjoy following it right on appreciate it yeah i appreciate you coming on man i really do so uh tell people one more time your websites yeah my my website is tmaxinc.com t-m-a-c-s-i-n-c dot com and the other one is combat sports training dot com combat strength training combat strength training yep and then i got My IG is At T-Max Inc Alright Beautiful It's fun

And then my YouTube channel is Just Pat Mac Pat Mac YouTube A lot of information Good times my friend Thank you Rock and roll

Appreciate it brother Thanks for coming on Hell yeah man Thank you It's freaking awesome you