The Joe Rogan Experience - #127 - Aubrey Marcus (Part 1)

Episode Date: August 3, 2011

Joe sits down with Aubrey Marcus.

Joe Rogan Experience. When they get started. This podcast has been very interesting for a number of reasons. It's been a weird little ride. Unexpected, we never thought we were going to do this. This totally came out of nowhere. Just me and Brian just fucking around. But one of the best parts about it has been the ability to get all these people together.

To get all these cool dudes that we're friends with and really spend a lot of time with them. Much more time than we would have spent with them talking about shit if we didn't have a podcast you know like brian callen and i mean we've really gotten deep into who duncan is man i know duncan so much more over this last year yeah it went from like going to a comedy club and saying hi to somebody like oh how was your week to actually digging into this person for two to three hours. Yeah, finding out their thoughts on everything, politics, religion, life, and death. And Chris is one of the more interesting cats that we met along the way,

and he's responsible for getting us together with The Fleshlight. That was the first group, the first person ever that offered to sponsor us. You know, and he's also, you know, he's an interesting dude. And he's, I'm glad that we met. You're a unique character. Indeed.

And a real one. You're a real one. There's a lot of people out there pretending to be guys like you. But they're not really. You know what I'm saying? I know. Thank you. Like, you're just, I'm just very happy we met i'm very happy

we're friends and this uh this latest experience that you have gone on is one of the reasons why i really i really dig you um he's the real jill he's the real deal he got up and he flew to fucking peru and uh he went to the jungle with those root-eating motherfuckers and how did you sleep in camps? Yeah, it was little huts. How many days were you down there for? I was in the jungle for six and then out in the mountains for another six or seven. Now, he got so fucked up on this ayahuasca that he changed his name.

I died, Joe. I had to come back something else. He used to be Chris and now he's Aubrey. Or you murdered somebody and you're running from the law. I'm running from the Peruvian authorities. I'm fascinated. I'm perplexed. I'm horrified.

I'm all of the above. So let's get into it. So how did you find out about this place? For those who don't know what ayahuasca is, ayahuasca is the orally active version of the most potent psychedelic drug known to man, which is dimethyltryptamine. And dimethyltryptamine is produced by the human body. They don't understand why, but they believe that it's produced during heavy REM sleep and during periods of extreme stress. They don't know what it is.

They don't know what its real true function is. But they do know that it is the most incredible hallucination-creating, visionary, psychedelic experience known to man. It's a mind-boggling, incredible experience. experience but it's not orally active because it's in so many different plants that if you if you got it orally from eating it man you people would go on dmt trips all the time because it's in all sorts of different grasses and plants and usually in a combinatory um state with a bunch of other you know whether they're active or non-psychoactive ingredients. Like some plants actually contain 5-methoxydimethyltryptamine, which is another form of DMT that's just as powerful,

actually more powerful but unique and different than the regular DMT experience. But we're getting off track. What ayahuasca is is the shamans of South America figured out, and no one knows how long ago they figured this out, whether it's 1,000 years, 10,000 years. It's all guesswork because there's no written history of it. They figured out how to combine. The reason why it's not orally active is your stomach produces something called monoamine oxidase,

and that breaks down dimethyltryptamine in the oral form so once it gets to your stomach where any you know we're like marijuana when you eat it it would get into your bloodstream what can't because the monoamine oxidase crushes it so what they figured out how to do is take the root of one plant the leaves of one plant and the vine of another plant and they don't even grow near each other. They're on completely other parts of the jungle. And there's over 100,000 different types of plants in the jungle.

So the fact that they figured out how to do this, and thousands of years ago, and when you ask them, who knows if they're telling you the truth. But what they say is that the plants taught them how to do this. Now, they look at you like you're a big dummy when you ask me like how did you how did you find that out and they're like they told us dummy you know it's like that matter of fact when you're talking to the real deal down there you know it's not like they they come up with an elaborate story they just look at you like well obviously they told us how do you think do you think we just guessed you know like come on on. They told you. Well, you know what?

I mean, that seems to be an actual possibility that to me is more likely than they figured it out through trial and error. Well, the combination there, if you, you know, I don't know. I'm not a math type of guy. It also could be evidence of an ancient civilization that figured out, you know, plant pharmacology thousands and thousands of years before. I'm sure there's a lot of medicines that are putting two different things that have nothing to do with each other together. Sure. There's one particular one called curare, which they use. And if they don't do it exactly the right way,

it's a deadly toxic poison. But the way that they're able to do it um you know is just pretty miraculous that a bunch of people haven't died so there's plenty of examples of that it's a what is curare is it a medicine i think it's a i think that's a medicine right i think that there's a it's the way that they prepare it and uh i always thought that that was some shit that they would put on poison darts and shoot it maybe i have that i that. I don't know because I'm only going from Tarzan movies. Maybe that is the poison dart thing. Do you know how to spell it?

It's C-U-R-A-R-E. C-U-R-A-R-E. Yeah, there's something with the preparation, I think, of it where if they did it wrong, massive death. A common name for various arrow poisons. Okay, so that's arrow poison. Originating in South America. Well, I guess if you do it right, it kills people.

Maybe with the boiling of fumes or something like that. The point is, it's amazing that these people figured out long before we were ever driving cars or sending emails. driving cars or sending emails. They figured out how to combine these two plants and make an orally active version of dimethyltryptamine that, in the words of the shaman, connects you to the spirit world. And the idea is that there is a world that is all around us all the time,

but we just cannot tune into it. And it is a world of souls, and it is a world of the afterlife, and it is a world of souls. And it is a world of the afterlife. And it is a world of non-embodied entities that are to the experiencer, to the subjective person that's having this experience. They're as real, if not more real, than this life itself. I was there, brother. I saw it. I mean, I was in it.

And it was completely indisputable for me. And that was what was so life-changing about it. What was indisputable for me. And that was what was so life changing. What was indisputable? Tell us what happened. You go down there. You had to write a whole thing to get in there. What happened there? So it's kind of a school of shamans that have been studying and training and going to classes and things,

led by a master shaman who's found out the best in South America, learned from him for 30 years, and is now trying to teach people here in the U.S. about it. So in order to get into this, this is kind of like the master class here. This is the finishing course, going down and taking the medicine down in the Amazon. So in order to get admitted, I had to write a letter, and they reviewed it and did whatever they do to kind of approve me to go along. But eventually I was given an admission. So did you have to go through any stages besides writing the letter?

This is the master class? This was kind of, yeah. This is like the ultimate field trip at the end of the school, where you actually really get to test your skills. Do you have on you what you wrote? I could get it in my email. I would love to read it in all of its cheesy glory. Because I know it has to be. You probably put some emotional shit in there like, oh, I lost my email. I would love to read it in all of its cheesy glory. Because I know it has to be.

You probably put some emotional shit in there like, oh, I lost my cat. No, that's not the kind of shit you put in there, man. You talk spiritual warrior journey type poetry shit. You talk about your intent. So what did you say? In the letter, I basically just said about my intent to explore these realms of consciousness and you know why I wanted to do it you know I wanted to go there learn grow and bring something back and and that was you know really the gist of it and I sent back to you with a gold star yeah there's a golden ticket to meet the

spirit world that's it that's it okay so you get there you fly in so fly in you take a van out to the camp? Like, how do you get to where the people are? Well, we fly, and then we take another flight out to a place called Puerto Maldonado. And one of these planes? It was actually a decent-sized plane. I've gone on a lot worse. Was it a propeller?

No, no, I had a real jet. It was a jet, okay. But then we take a canoe, a two-hour canoe. I mean, we arrive at Puerto Maldonado. It's like a real... That's where I tell you to go fuck yourself. It's like a real third-hour canoe. I mean, we arrived at Puerto Malo. It's like a real... That's where I tell you to go fuck yourself. It's like a real third-world country. I mean, it's just you smell feces and fish and smiling, happy people.

But it's like dust and diesel fume. It's one of those places. That two-hour canoe just into the middle of nowhere. You're on the Amazon. Amazon. The Madre de Dios River. Jesus fucking Christ. And it was crazy.

I've been watching a lot of that Jeremy Wade's River Monsters. So I'm just looking at this muddy brown water, thinking of these eels that burrow through people's flesh and sawfish and all those things that he's pulled out of there. But, yeah, three hours up, two and a half or so, up the river to this place. It was just this eco lodge running on generators out in the middle of the jungle. And generators that are fueled by, is it biodiesel? Like how do

they straight diesel they just get it from a source do you have a truck come by and deliver it yeah they have a big ship the only ship comes up the river keep the generators on for a certain amount of time about three hours three hours at a time yeah so they have no refrigerators um no not good ones i guess but the food was great so i didn't i didn't really probe too deeply maybe they keep the kitchen part on Generation More, but the lights and everything like that, we got about two and a half hours a day. Wow. Yeah.

So at nighttime, it's just dark as fuck. Yeah. And right when you'd start the ceremony, that's when the lights would kick. It would just boom. And then with the canopies above, I mean, it's just cave black. Now, do they have to worry about jaguars? They do. But the jaguars is a very sacred animal to them.

So if it eats you, it's cool? Right. Well, they believe that that's what happens to us when we die anyway. Because you ain't sacred to them, man. I'll tell you that. They have a totally different fucking game plan they're playing with. Totally different rule book. Yeah, but there was jaguar tracks while we were there in some of the places we were hiking.

God damn, son. Jaguars are like mountain lions on steroids yeah they're just ninja ninja mountain they're they're killers man they're scary as fuck yeah okay so you you get to this camp you're two hours on a canoe and do you speak this language what language do they speak spanish they speak spanish do you speak spanish un poquito un poquito so uh did you bring like rosetta stone with you or did you just no you know i just kind of i don't know i mean just tried to get by it actually got a little bit tougher when i was trying to speak about things that are not commonplace like with the maestro the the head shaman i mean trying to communicate with him they call him a maestro maestro or don don orlando maestro orlando was uh was the guy i work with so Maestro is an interesting name.

Yeah. Because, you know, you think of someone from a band. To them, it's, you know, they're master of the plants is what they call us. So is that Spanish? Maestro is master? Master of the plants. Vegetalistas. Vegetalistas, right.

Yeah. And isn't that one of the names for the – there's two different churches, I believe, in North America that have won through the Supreme Court the ability to take ayahuasca in a ceremonial Christian religion. One is that name. Church of Santo Daime and the other one is the Vegetalista or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're in like New Mexico or something like that. So you're down there in the jungle, okay? You get to the camp.

Do you say, hi, let's fucking do this? Well, yeah. We show up, and there was like a general orientation. They feed us. Are they speaking to you in English? Both, English and Spanish. So this is organized. It's organized, yeah.

There was like 50 of us going down there. Really? Yeah, it was a big troop. Man, see, that would trip me out, like getting blasted with a bunch of weirdos that i didn't know it was it was interesting they were all super good natured but this is not the crew that i would bring on board like a seaworthy vessel if i was gonna you know a lot of broken people right i think they started that way and this was an answer for a lot of people but

you know genuinely good people i was i was impressed to see that they weren't a lot of these super kind of fraudulent, pseudo-spiritual, like, I'm so connected. They were really good people. They were out to help you, but they weren't the saltiest crew, I would say. That element of insincerity is really one of the biggest problems with human beings. And in a sense, a lot of people, whatever you become, anything,

you've got to fake it before you make it. I've had this conversation with my friends about comics that are comics that are just starting out. That's not a fucking comic. Look at you, he's fucking terrible. I'm like, God damn, man. If you saw me a week into my act, you'd want to kill me too.

I was a faker. I was a faker until I became a comic. But there's something about the spiritual thing. It's like faking spirituality is one of the grossest things. It is. It's even grosser than faking being a rock star. You know, like if you're in fucking high school and you're wearing black nail polish and you're growing your hair long, you decide to like fake like you're a rock star until you become a rock star. You know what I mean?

Well, because faking to be a rock star actually helps you to be a rock star. Faking to be spiritual actually prevents you from being spiritual. So it's the opposite. That is an interesting way to say it. Spirituality has so much to do with true humility. Exactly. And not worrying about your fucking image. And the real issue with fake spirituality is that it's all about the image.

It's all about projecting this artificial piety, this artificial sense of, you know, it's like vegans that get real uppity with you about killing animals. It's like what they're really doing is they're taking a moral high ground. They're taking a ground. They're taking, whether it's a Christian ground or a spiritual ground, they're pretending a moral high ground. They're taking a ground. They're taking, whether it's a Christian ground

or a spiritual ground, they're pretending to be above you. Yeah. And they'll do this with this spirituality. I think now that I've gone down there, I think anybody we encounter like that should just have to prove it. Just drink a full cup of ayahuasca.

Let's see what happens. We were in 24-Hour Fitness, and I was with Eddie Bravo back when he was in his most ferocious. There was a time when Eddie Bravo would just try to hit on every pretty girl he could run into. The Falcon Days. The Falcon Days. Could not not hit on him. In that long history.

Bad motherfucker. He was being successful, so he was knocking them out of the park. He was enjoying it. But anyway, the point is we're at a gym, and we're weights and this girl has this cute little body and she's talking to him. And Eddie is like, so what's up? Where are you from? Blah, blah, blah. And she was like, oh, I'm from out of state and I'm really not that happy with California.

She was like real uppity. And he's like, what's up? What's the matter? She goes, well, you know what? There's just a lack of spirituality here. And I don't think that the men are very godlike. That's what she actually said. She actually said they're not very godlike.

And we were like, and I was like right there with him. I was like, is she that godlike? Like, I don't want to start making fun of her because he's trying to get laid. So I'm being cool and I back off. And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm a god. And then we're over working out he goes she didn't say godlike the men are not godlike you know i guess what she was saying was like you know like living by the word of god anyway long story short a week later we're at the spearmint rhino strip club in van nuys california

who takes the stage right in front of us but godlike? Are you serious? Godlike in the all-nudes strip club with her hot little body. We're looking right at her little asshole. And she looks at us and the fucking poor girl, she remembered us from the gym. And she remembered that that was the day that she had probably chosen to try out this new persona. You know, crazy strippers. One day they're super religious and one day they're fucking spiritual. The next day they're know going to be a yoga teacher you know they're fucking lost that's why they're stripping it wasn't godlike like perfect body face everything like that like not religious no no no she was talking about no she was no no no no no clearly she was talking

about spirituality first she said men aren't spiritual and then she said they're not very godlike she was talking about the people aren't spiritual in california and that she's from a place where people are you know much more right you know in tune with the way of god but it was hilarious strip clubs in nevada in nebraska she's fucking not even a regular strip club this shit is hardcore this is pussies and assholes in your face and she and she's quivering her butt and doing that thing when they shake their butt up and down. I'm like, yeah. But it's just godlike. Anyway, that's fake spiritual.

So you're in the jungle. There's no fake spiritual people. It's all genuine seekers. I wouldn't say no, but it's like a very high percentage of really good people. Any hot chicks out there? No. No, not really. There was some that took care of themselves.

Actually, I was able to go with my mother on this trip. You went with your mother, which was fucking sweet. God damn. That is so cool. It was cool. Wow. For two days. Whole new world for her.

You must have a really good mom. My mom's dope. She was a semifinalist in Wimbledon, pro athlete. Wow. Traveled the world. No shit. Yeah, for sure. Wow, that's amazing. Travel the world. No shit. Yeah, for sure. Wow, that's amazing.

Your mom's a fucking shit. Yeah, my mom would get annoying after a couple days in Peru, I could tell. Yeah, my mom would be tough action. My mom, somewhere along the line, has become a five-year-old. I have to explain everything to her. Mom, that's fake. It is? Yeah.

That's a commercial. What? She'll send me things. Can you believe this? No, I can't because it's not real. It's Bruce Lee playing ping pong with nunchucks. It's like, have you seen this? Yeah.

I don't think I'd be down with going into the spirit world with her. Unless we were in a bus going off a cliff and I had no choice. Then we're taking that trip together. But until then. So you get down there with your mom you're on a canoe you know did and did you have to talk her into this or was she totally down no she was into it she was fired up so i think she was looking for she doesn't really have any strong kind of set beliefs but she's like a looking for rabbit explorer she loves like new adventures and

things like that so she knew i was into it and she's like yeah i'd love to do that that's was she ever religious at all no not really no but she's you know she's just open to things but she has it doesn't really formed her own paradigm necessarily she knows enough to discard the bullshit monotheistic paradigm she's like all right that's not true but she hasn't really gone the other way to say like all right what what else can i construct now before she did this ayahuasca trip did she have any psychedelic experiences like a bad acid trip back in college or something like that so nothing so pretty much did you talk her into this or yeah a little bit a little bit she was she was a bit nervous about that aspect told your mom um 60 ish i should probably say this is so crazy but she was uh you, they do a really good job when you get down there of explaining every one of the shamans we met.

Kind of jumping ahead in the story a bit, but explaining how it's 100% medicine. Like all of them are like, this is medicine. You don't do this for fun. You do this to cleanse your body, to cleanse your organs. You purge it and it shows you things, you know, and there's a wisdom to it. It's 100% medicine. And they get really offended when you call it a drug. You know, to there's a wisdom to it. It's 100% medicine. And they get really offended when you call it a drug.

To them, it's a medicine. It's the master medicine. Like you said, it's the medicine that they believe has helped them find all other medicines in the jungle. They take the ayahuasca, they go in, and that's how they find their other cures. And all of these shamans, these vegetalistas, ayahuasca is just one part of it, but to them, that's their master sacred medicine. Ayahuasca is so badass that they don't give a fuck about mushrooms yeah shamans are like mushrooms we're playing with that shit for it's true we're playing with that shit for yeah you're gonna see some crazy aztec symbols and you don't need put that down and have a drink of this yeah

no it's but you know what they do say they say you know you can't always get ayahuasca so they recommend that mushrooms when you can't every get ayahuasca. So they recommend that. Mushrooms when you can't get ayahuasca. Every two months. They're like, every two months, you better do something. And if you got mushrooms, great. Really? They say every two months you should do something. That's what they say.

Because they say you need to hit that reset button, reconnect with the earth mother and, you know, that kind of. Which to them is just a representation of the yin side, that kind of. Every two months. Nature side. Wow. Let's move to Peru. I've had some DMT experiences that were so intense, I took years off. I was just like, whoa, I need to think about this.

But DMT, the orally active version, is much slower and more gradual, and you can kind of tune in and out of it. You can get in the meditative state when it's full-blown, or as it's slipping away, you can get right back in there if you relax and tune of it you can get in the meditative state when it's full blown or as it's slipping away you can get right back in there if you relax and tune into it it's if you're a warrior but if you're a warrior but if it's crap if you're a warrior if you're cracked it's gonna fucking destroy you like there was yeah i'll get into that in the story but you know so you have to know who you are you do before you start fucking with that stuff it's heavy they call it the vine

of death you know that's fine of the souls right vine of the souls or vine of death vine of death huh yeah you know okay so so first night do they give you a little baby dose and see if everybody no so here's so here's how they go you know we get in we get assigned a roommate i ended up with a lucky one roommate yeah we pay extra to have your own tent not on this one they didn't have the room i'll be like, listen, bro. I'll give you 50 coconuts. Just give me my own fucking tent. Yeah, for sure.

For sure. I'm that guy. Yeah. So he was cool. He was an old Israeli tank commander. Are there no sweets here? He was an old Israeli guy? He was an old Israeli tank commander. Really?

Okay, I might pay to be hanging out with that guy. Yeah, the only other guy that was like i was like god i got lucky like this was fucking sweet he was a cool dude i'm still in touch with him but wade me and him were the most different out of it everybody else in the whole group everybody else was definitely you know not as i said not the saltiest bunch you'd want to bring wow okay so do they slowly let you dip your feet in the water? So here it is. You go in and they announce the three shamans. They've flown in the three best shamans in Peru, basically, from different camps, different parts of the jungle. One is local to where they're at. So it's like a battle of the DJs.

Yes, exactly. And you choose which one you want to work with. So they announced the first one, a long lineage of what he's done. And he kind of integrates some of the Christian saints with some of the ayahuasca work, works with the masculine aspects, has a big bio of all he's accomplished. So like, all right, whatever. But I'm not really going to be into the kind of mixing of the Christian ideals. So wait for the second guy. He has his own psychology clinic in the jungle, and he's helped build this hospital and blah, blah, blah. Another big, long thing. And he sings these sweet songs. And then they get to the third guy and uh the third guy they say only say he's the most traditional and the most terrifying he calls upon the spirit of the dragon and that's it that's all i said and

i was like that's my guy that's my guy that's the one that's all he said about him that's all i said see less is more people yeah it's the clint eastwood approach to shamanism yeah exactly so okay so um is this the first night that you get the first night so you get they go right into it right into it wow okay so day one you pull up in a canoe what time do you actually get to the camp is it noon about 3 30 3 30 in the afternoon do you eat first or no we ate that we ate it we ate right then at 3 30 but then that's it no dinner right because the ceremony starts at 8 30 this okay so they recommend five hours that's it to purge your system i thought it was like they will ask for 12 um this one they didn't you know but the food that they're serving is like jungle food you know it's like light it's clean it's all grown out there what do you eat what kind of food

uh a lot of vegetables a lot of quinoa. They had some fresh free-range chicken and a lot of tilapia type of fish, things like that. Really kind of light. And they're catching everything themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So you eat, you sit around and just wait for the party to begin? Yeah, I got to know my roommate and kind of wait for it. And then they talk about it a little bit.

And then you have a few minutes to kind of gather yourself and get ready for the lunch. And they've been brewing it all day. These guys brought it from their homes. So they brewed it in their homes. So each maestro. So you don't get to watch them brew it? No. I mean, they have to boil it, boil one, boil the other, mix it.

But each maestro has their own secret perfect recipe that they've learned from generations. I would want to see them cook it. Because after the movie Altered States, that was one of the trippiest parts when the guy was cooking up the shit. I want to see him cook it. You can't just pull it out of a fucking Tupperware container for me, man. I want to see you cook it. Actually, there's a video I posted on my blog kind of midway down on warriorpoet.us that has actually the maestro that I work with, and it shows some pictures of them boiling it with the big sticks. And it has like a big cast iron pot.

Yeah, big pots. Two different pots brewing side by side, one with the leaf, I think, and one with the big sticks and it has like a big cast iron yeah like that big pots two two different pots brewing side by side one with the leaf i think and one with the and it takes a long ass time right yeah it's not quick it takes like 10 hours or something to make not quick okay so um they sit you down and how do they determine the dosage well it's it's an eyeball test from the shaman so we we walk in we i have i have by far the fewest people with our group because people were scared of the dragon and they didn't know so i had like you know 10 people so we're going to a small hut in the secluded part of the jungle so a long walk my uh my fearless compatriots were

kind of laughing and joking around and i i felt confident but i was very calm i knew i was going into some pretty intense work you know so um we had it we get in there and then you know, so we get it, we get in there. And then, you know, they do some of the opening ceremony type of stuff. And he has one candle, and boom, the generator hits, caved up. So all of us are faced like spokes of a wheel towards the center of the room. And we all have a puke bucket kind of near us, because, you know, most people purge during this process, it's part of the healing process. And then he calls us up one by one, kind of looks at you, assesses, and then pours a coconut, pours the ayahuasca in like a polished coconut husk, and you drink.

And it is thick and bitter and just tastes like earth and fire. Like it's tough. I mean, it's tough to go down. I mean, it's very thick. Did everyone drink it? Did anybody? Everyone did. Once you're in the ceremony, you've got to drink.

No observers. No peeping Toms on the action there. Does the shaman get in as well? He does. But he drinks kind of steadily throughout the thing. He doesn't, you know, he's kind of always drinking and always, because that's how he creates his, you know, his world that he's doing. So by creating his world, he's not just concocting the formula.

He's also beating a drum and blowing cigar, tobacco smoke. And what is he doing? Yeah. So what he, you know, 30 minutes, it was just silence in there. And then he starts what's called his Icaros and the Icaros are his songs and the songs that was taught to him by his grandfather who

they trace it back grandfather to father what does it sound like? man I couldn't do it let's pull one up can we pull one up or can we play audio on that? I mean it's Icaros how do you spell ecaros

i-c-a-r-o-s ayahuasca ecaros yeah you know how to spell ayahuasca a-y-a-h-u-a-s-c-a yeah i want to hear some of that yeah yeah yeah hold on a second get one of those and we'll play it on the background while while he's talking. It'll be trippy as fuck. So this cat has his own separate icaros, and the other two gentlemen have their own. And they have female shamans as well, right? Not here. They do, but not the ayahuasqueros and the vegetalistas. It's kind of a very paternalistic kind of heritage.

But it's not completely a male-dominated thing. No, not at all. It's not like priests, right? No, no. Women can be shaman. no no and you know it's it's very i mean they worship higher than anything is the earth mother so it just happens to seem that the men um were the maestros in this case there's female shamans for sure they call them donians maestras um and there was actually one in the group uh but she wasn't an ayahuasquero necessarily. She was just a more general shaman. But she was smart too, and she was strong. You got something there, dude? What are you doing?

Would that be it? Oh, let's hear it. There's too many instruments in there, obviously, but they use just like a whistle in their voice. It's like... Did you look up Icarosaros that's just ayahuasca right put it that press you know enter right copy that shit and then write icaros i c yeah that'll get you a r o s is that it i see a r o s-R-O-S? I-C-A-R-O-S, yeah.

Let me hear some craziness. What? This is fucking... John Tesh presents... Live from Peru. John Tesh. Kenny G playing back. Maybe it was Icarus over that shitty music. Yeah.

Here's another one. Sounds more like it. Oh, that's legit. That bitch is in the jungle right now. That's an Icarus. My guy didn't sound like that. He was a lot more kind of masculine. Yeah, that's it.

So he only has, his tools are he has his breath, which he uses more than anything. And then he has a kind of a branch with a bunch of leaves that he uses as sort of like a rattle. And those are his tools and his voice and his whistling. And he also has some cinnamon sticks, which he chews at the end, but I'll get to that. This is tripping me out. It's putting me back in. This is perfect. Good, good, good.

I like it. I'm getting back there. You're going to change your name back to Chris. You're going to change your name. Okay, so how long does it take after you drink it? About 45 minutes you start to feel people rustling, 30 to 45 minutes. It's hard. I mean, it's cave dark.

You don't have a perfect perception of time. But 30 to 45 minutes people start to rustle. mean, it's cave dark. You don't have a perfect perception of time. But 30 to 45 minutes, people start to rustle. It starts to activate. How big is this camp? This town? It's hot. Probably 20 foot in diameter. So it's tight.

Tight quarters for 10 people. So it starts going. And, you know, you start to get that energetic activation, same as you do on mushrooms or something, where you know something's about to happen. Your closed-eyed visuals start to splash with color and light and things like that your stomach starts to gurgle a little bit and then so that was happening and he started his icaros you know start slowly kind of like it is now whistling and building building and then you know in about an hour you hear the first person just wretch like and it's not like just a gentle bulimic style vomit this is like years of

rock just pouring out of every organ that they have and they're it's they're half yelling half puking when they do it i mean it's like so it's not just the the the medicine coming up there's like a yeah you feel like a sacrifice or you feel like expelling bile and things out of your out of your organs i didn't puke till the second paradigm shifting session but um it either goes out your you know you vomit or finds another mode of evacuation but it's you can feel it so a lot of people shit themselves too is that what you're saying it wouldn't be yeah it can happen out of the tent or they just shit themselves on the israeli guy he was in a he was in a different session actually that time so i wasn't there but anyway so the first people start to purge okay and then pretty

soon after that you smell farts it was yeah it was just chaos erupted in the room like all my companions like one of the one of the ladies just turned into a blithering child like help me help me help me but another person started pretending that he could sing the ikros but it was like a kid that thinks he knows the words to a song she was like two beats off and it was awful and then like another lady completely lost her internal monologue and this culminated throughout the night and her finally saying i can't tell if i shit my pants or if i didn't shit my pants like over and over again and i was like oh my god you know i mean this is so people i mean people who weren't ready cracked you know bad i mean that wasn't that's not the experience you're supposed to get you're supposed to keep it to yourself follow did it interfere with your thoughts though almost throw you off did a little bit i think i would start

freaking out but it was it was too it'd be annoying it was right so that part that part was rough in this first in this first session and then you know right as i'm starting to get you know get some serious visions lady next to me and i like shuddered and she puked all over my socks so i'll be pitch black and i'm peeling off the wet chunky wool from my feet and put them on the side and just curl back up on my mat. No way to clean it. It's fucking pitch black in the middle of ceremony, starting to trip balls. So that was the start of it. And it was kind of signatory for the way the rest of the night went

because it was intense and dark. And what started happening is snakes started coming in through the jungle. I had visions of snakes and they would look at me and then immediately start savagely like going inside my body and like eating my organs, eating my throat, like going down my throat and eating their way out and like exploding through my body. And I know enough from psychedelic experiences to just witness and allow and just let it happen. You know, because if you try and fight it,'re fucked you're fucked you can't that is the the number one reason why people have bad trips yeah they try to control the experience but did you think these snakes were real or did you know they were kind of like oh this one i was i was cool with this at this point and then it switched what yeah you're cool with this thing blasting i kind of knew i kind of knew that the

vine and death was going to take me there. I had a feeling. Okay, well, explain these snakes. Do they look like real snakes or do you know? Were you really like, that's a fucking real snake. I'm actually getting eaten by a jungle snake right now. No, they were more like, they were a bit ephemeral. You know, they would change too much in color.

And the way that they would come was not necessarily slithering on the ground. They were coming from the air. And they all had top hats on. And what did they look like? What did they look lot of them were were kind of white they were they looked actually more like boas or like anacondas not not as much like domestic snakes that we'd find out here but they had that kind of jungle pattern but they would you know the colors were off they were not they were either too colorful or they're or they're white they weren't like jungle colors but they were that shape and that size of these things um so that like you're tuning into it but not totally correctly like as

if you're on a station and the colors are all off and the fucking the cop outfit is white instead of blue it's like and the skin is blue instead of white. Yeah, exactly. So that was going on. And then after I got used to that, then it switched. And I kept sliding down these vines of thorns that were just ripping me up to pieces again. All of these images were just total destruction of the flesh. And are you feeling anything while this is happening? No, you're kind of a passive observer of your body. So are you seeing it in a third person?

Are you outside of your body? Yeah, about two feet outside of your body as you're watching this happen to you. So you're like looking down on it? Yeah, kind of like up here on your shoulder a bit. And just destruction. Destruction. And I remember thinking to myself, because I was naked when this was happening, I was like, why did I have to be naked in this thing?

But that's just the way it was. was just me naked flesh just getting torn sliding down his life and what are you seeing are you seeing blood and injuries and yeah you do you see it all i mean just liquid pouring out of your body it's just complete destruction of the physical form and then and then from there you know insects would burrow into my body and explode and let's Jesus spiders and things would go and really that was not that was not so bad actually I that was kind of the good part but but what ayahuasca will do is it will find your own weaknesses and then use them to fuck with you it's like when you're at the final level of a video game and it's like no you must fight yourself you know like that's what it felt like

so it started preying on my own fears and I heard a voice telling me exactly what i was scared of which is you know some some illness my family's had some lymphoma issues or something like that so it basically said you're gonna die of cancer you know say your goodbyes you're fucking done you got it now it's bad you know and it was telling me that and that actually started to shake me a little bit you know because i've never had it work against work myself work against me in that kind of magnitude. You know, I've had visions of things before that were dark, and I always worked through and it, you know, ended up feeling good. But that was a more challenging experience. And then at a certain point, you know, I had to just apply the same philosophy and say, you know what, if this is the end, I'm going to have a fucking hell of a six months, you know, and I'm going to do everything I can and enjoy my life.

And then boom, that ended. And then finally at that point, I was able to get a sense of peace. And I felt myself getting sucked back down into the earth. Kind of like in the, the only thing I can describe is that movie Avatar. You know, when the little fibers grow up around the body and it like connects it back down to the earth kind of like in the the only thing i can describe is that movie avatar you know when the little fibers grow up around the body and it like connects it back down to the earth i felt this deep relaxation just like right back down into the earth and then um you know that was kind of the end that was the climax of this first experience for me did you get a sense that it was a purposeful trip that the reason why they it takes you on this destruction of your body and the snakes and everything like that,

is it supposed to scare the fuck out of you, to break you down? It's supposed to. It's a death rebirth motif, really, is what it is. And that was the idea of the medicine of the night. Each night, the medicine had a theme. And the first night, it was anaconda medicine, snake medicine, which is shedding your skin in one piece. So like a snake does. A snake sheds his skin all in one piece.

This was about shedding everything that you don't need, your fears, your weaknesses, all of that. And that's why you explore it. And I think part of the intent of what the shaman was doing, which meanwhile, by the way, his Icaros were growing in intensity, and it was like the room was swirling with a voice. Does he have a CD, like a mixtape? I would love to see that.

He has a YouTube video. I bought some. I bought some Icaros online once and I listened to it for five minutes. I wasn't high enough and I shut it off. He has a website? He does. He does. He has a YouTube video.

Does he have a website? What's his website? Oh, man. I couldn't tell. It's in Spanish, you know, so I can't recall off name top of my head uh maestro orlando chuhandama how to spell last name c-u-h-c-h-u sorry c-h-u-j-a-n-j-a-n-d-a-m-a and it's also brian if you bring it up on my blog you can probably get the direct link discovery of the eighth dimension yeah that's me it's me that is you yeah is this a miss a video that you made that was a video i made i'll tell about that was my second trip while you were in there oh dude you have video yeah okay go to

warrior poet us on youtube and check out this video that's hilarious you're the number one hit on the fucking on this guy's name it's you in the tent tripping your balls off yeah this is the second session you look terrified it takes me a while it takes me a while to get to get into it but if you don't don't don't jump to that video until i get to the part let's not let's not play that video which i want to hear all this so so um so yeah so yeah, so that first experience. So after he comes by, the shaman comes by, he asks me, ¿Cómo estás? I say, you know, I managed to muster something like bien muerto.

I told him I was dead and good and dead, and he just laughed. That was, I think, when he started to kind of give me a little bit of respect because the rest of the room was just crushed. But I was crushed too, but know, I was able to sit up and, and, and kind of deal with it a little bit. So he brings me over to his to where he's at. And he, he starts chewing up some cinnamon. And it's the final closing ceremony, the cleansing ritual. And he has me open the back of my shirt, and he goes with the cinnamon and the instant he did that it was like i was on a bungee cord and just and this is six hours after i'd

taken it you know my the peak of my trip was completely done and i just went straight up and right into this world of just pure energetic vibration that i had no idea how to decode it was something completely foreign to anything i've ever seen what did he do with the cinnamon so he chews it up he's like cinnamon sticks dried cinnamon right and then he blows his breath he goes and forms like a little sonic missile thing and he put he points it at different parts of your different parts of your like the back of your neck the top of your head so he did it four times and each time he did it i had like 10 seconds swimming in this world that just i had no possible chance to decode and it was unbelievable i was

like what the hell is this where am i you know how do i understand it what does it mean you know like the youtube video but it was wild on that closing part of the ceremony so what did what did it i mean you can't decode it. Can you describe it? It was like a geometrical city of light and vibration. But it was like looking at, imagine if you didn't know anything about computer code and you looked at the matrix, right?

And all you saw were ones and zeros. Right now we know, oh, that's computer code. It's source code. It was like that kind of information was coming to me. But I just, you know, I didn't know. But that sounds like a DMT trip. Yeah. So you have a flash.

You have a DMT flash. So like deep into another. And he's blowing cinnamon on you, and that's what causes that? Yeah. I don't know if the cinnamon is just to make his breath pleasant and it's his intent or whether it actually has some part of it. Or it's to distract you while some guy has a needle in the back of your neck that's just jamming it. Or he lobotomizes it. No, but it know whatever he did in that closing part of it it i felt like it opened a breach in something else a different place for 10 seconds for 10 seconds then suck back as soon as

as soon as that was over i was right back you know wouldn't last okay so this is day one day one so then do you get up in the morning do you go to to bed? Go to bed, yeah. Do you wash off? Do you puke? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went, you know, took care of everything in the dark of my hut. In the dark? Yeah, cold and dark, yeah. There's no light at all?

No light at all. No candles, nothing? No, we're using our phones and flashlights and whatever else we got. Do you have a charger for your phone? Three hours a day. You can charge it for three hours a day? Yeah. So you're using your phone as a little flashlight. But you don't get any service, so it's just a flashlight.

A little flashlight. Expensive iPhone flashlight. All right, so you wash yourself off. Yeah, crash out. And can you sleep? I did, yeah. So are you fucking freaking out while you're sleeping, or you slept good? No, I felt pretty good.

After that final thing where I was able to relax and felt sucked back into the earth, I felt good. I felt like I'd learned the de importance of the physical realm. You know what I mean? Now the next day breakfast is, do people apologize for throwing up on each other? Yeah. Some people were still, some people were still pretty, pretty shook. Like the people in my group were pretty shook. A lot of them didn't go back. Some of them didn't do it again. The whole really, I mean, they, they weren't, they fought it. They and if you fight the whole time you never release from it you know you don't work through it it's like you get brought to the heat of the battle and then you just ignore it and shut your eyes and it goes away but it sticks with you and that's that's one thing that you know

a caution for doing any kind of psychedelic work is you gotta enjoy it gotta work through it so for her it was a very, she just had very repetitive visions. Um, you know, I was surprised that it didn't take her deeper, but she was working with some of the lighter, lighter doses and the lighter shamans.

Um, and they could tell that she was the way that they dose you is pretty smart. Usually they try and dose you to what, you know, what they think you can handle. So, but she was great. She was doing,

it seems to me that just jumping right into an ayahuasca trip without any previous psychedelic experience is like taking no martial arts classes and fighting in the UFC. It just seems ridiculous. Wouldn't you want to build your way up slowly and smoke some salvia, eat a brownie, slowly dip your legs into the river that is the psychedelic experience? Because the ayahuasca experience and DMT experience is supposed to be the two most

powerful that you can ever have back to back one being a bit more on the spiritual side the ayahuasca that is supposedly because it's longer and not as intense that it sort of connects you in a way that you can interpret better than the DMT flash.

The DMT flash a lot of times is so mind-bogglingly alien that there's no words for it. You come back with a lot of confusion. There's some message in it somewhere, but it takes a while to decode. I talk to them about smoking DMT as well, and I'll get to that when I get— I kind of have to set up kind of the paradigm first, and then I'll tell you what they said about smoking DMmt versus taking ayahuasca so did you go right back in the second day second day no second day i just rested wrote in my journal made sure to kind of digest the you know what i'd gone through it's very energetically taxing but i felt fucking

great like i felt reborn like energetic i slept five hours and i was just pumped like i got a good workout in and i felt more alive than i have been in a long time it was rad like i felt my body felt great my mind felt great my spirit felt great i felt like i learned some valuable lessons about you know the d importance of the physical realm and i feel like i conquered some deep fears about cancer and shit that was going on like it was it. I'm not worried about that anymore. It took me there to overcome it. Really, that first night for me was, I call it my death. It was like the old parts of me that night died.

Anything weak was killed off by the ayahuasca. But it's funny you said that, the UFC analogy. I wrote in my blog, it was like I was kind of with a bunch of karate black belts. And, you know, they took ayahuasca and just got punched in the face. What the hell is going on here? You know, they didn't really you know, they had the training, but it's different when you're in a street fight, you know, and that's that's kind of what it was. I didn't have the training, but I've been in a few brawls in my day. So I think that that ends up being a bit more important as far as being able to handle the experience.

But then, you know, at another point, the second night, I wish I did have some of their training because I got an opportunity to do some cool shit. But I just didn't know what to do. So what happened to that? So that's the second session. I go up to them. This is the third day. Slightly more comfortable room. The people who from the first session a lot of

them ducked out you know but there was new people who like wanted a strong experience so his legend started to spread in the camp so we had a few more people probably 15 um and i went up to him beforehand and i said you know maestro i said uh medicina fuerte like emphasize like i wanted a strong dose and he looks at me and he smiled and he remembered that I handled the last one pretty well. So when it was my turn to go up, he fills the cup to the brim, like to the brim. And I look at it and set my intent. And my intent was to see how far I could go. Like I wanted to go back to that place he showed me at the end of the session.

And I wanted to experience joy and happiness in that side of life, the opposite side, and just see where it could take me. And that was really my goal in doing that. And I picked up some tips from some of the other shamans about how to set kind of your own spiritual armor and kind of prevent things from interfering and taking you off your intent. So I was like, I felt well equipped, drank the full cup, three gulps, pretty brutal again. And then it starts. And it starts, you starts you know kind of similarly as usual um you know an hour in visions things that i remember you know kind of like a psychic most psychedelic trips like ah i gotta remember that that's a good lesson you know take little gems from the visions you see things like that at some point some eels came out of the water and they started coming after me and

it was much like the snakes and i looked at the eels and uh i you know was able to kind of mentally stop them with the armor which is a trick you know opening your witter kocha it's called um and i was like oh sweet they stopped i was like what's up eels like this is not the day for killing me and i just told them that and they like looked at me and they're like yeah okay i'll believe you and just bounced and i was like sweet like i'm not gonna die today like that's so they leave and what does it leave you with so then where are you yeah so then from there then from there things um things got that's when things got started to get crazy like immediately the sensation of my head just peeling off the top of my head happens and joe i've been in fucking a lot of situations and done some shit nothing nothing nothing could compare to how this felt it felt like every cell

and neuron in my brain was completely synced in perfect alignment and glowing radioactive and i had no top of my head on it was like wow wow i mean it was unreal as foreign to me as any sensation and it was a physical sensation it wasn't a mental sensation i could physically feel my brain like alive from back from my brain stem all the way to the frontal lobe like every part of it was full and i was like oh shit like something's happening here like this is new like this is a new ball game and what happened from then so from then um right after that happened um you know i started to feel really fucking good like really good and and i was looking around the room and people were vomiting and lots of you know chaos had started around the room but i felt it all as like a kind of like just a cleanse you know like i had a

different perspective on it so each one would bring me more like happiness until finally it reached this ecstatic state which was about 10 minutes of just pure straight ecstasy like every cell of my body felt better than it ever had before it was like the exact reason why we were given physical forms was to experience some kind of pleasure like this the only thing i compare it to and every time i make this analogy people ask if i nutted my pants which i didn't but it felt like that moment of orgasm stretched for like five minutes ten minutes like i didn't know whether to yell it was like so crazy intensely bodily good to feel that and then you know so experience that and that was rad i was like

you know that would have been enough right there but then it just continued to build and so what happened next is this giant organic flotilla of like snakes and feathers comes like a china kind of like an organic mothership comes and it hovers over my head and these is this is full open-eyed visuals right how big is this oh man it was probably 30 yards 40 yards big 30 yards yeah it was big it was a massive it's feathers and snakes feathers and snakes and it's living it's a living it's like a living mothership right and it starts sucking black smoke out of my body and i see it coming out. And I was like, Oh, well, I guess, I guess I didn't need that. I was like, okay, take it. You know, like, cool. And it didn't have any physical sensation, but I could see it like coming out of my body.

It came out of my throat, came out of my head, came out of, you know, different parts. I guess you could correspond them to the, to the chakras where they were coming out, but just peeling out of my body. I was like, Whoa, that's's pretty cool and then it just floats off when the smoke started to die off and then right on its heels another mothership comes and this mothership is metallic and it has all kinds of crazy cryptic writing on it like stargate sgi type of writing that's the only thing i can compare your eyes are open when you're seeing this yeah fully and how does it look real can you see through it does it look like an illusion no you can't see through it you couldn't i couldn't see anything else really honestly i it was it was black around it i my memory of it is that i could just see that and that was it i

think if i tried to like focus back on you know my own reality i could see some shit in the room but then that's all i could see. It was black and it was a ship. That was the only thing I was focused on. It looked like an alien spacecraft. Independence Day style. Very much like that. Not quite that big.

There's writing on it? Something. It wasn't just smooth. It wasn't a smooth thing. It was either writing or a very cool design i don't know i mean i had no hope to read it or anything but so then it and then it starts shooting this light at me and this was one of the craziest things like as soon as the light comes i like lift my head up like this and open open like put the put my tongue on the roof of my mouth and the light starts coming in underneath my tongue and i don't know why i did i have no fucking clue why i did that but i did it and i that's what i

needed to do and i was just started doing it i was like breathing in this light it was like i was getting uploaded some kind of information again no physical sensation but i'm just you know just breathing in you know breathing in this white light that's being uploaded into me. And then I was like, whoa, this is fucking crazy. And I couldn't believe that I knew that that was what I was supposed to do. But I just did it. And then the light stops. Boom, retracts.

Ship goes away. And then at that point, everything just blew out. I saw the room again. and then the room just goes, blows out into infinity and just complete infinity around me. Now, there's a couple things in infinity. There's the shaman who's like jutted out on a precipice who's going pretty hard with his Icarus now. And then there's like some terraform.

What was it sounding like? Oh, man. If you listen to his video,'s he sings it a little bit but i wish i could get you some but it's are there words or is it just noises sometimes there is some it's like you know sometimes they'll sing some things like that. So that's kind of a flavor. Obviously, I have a terrible voice.

He didn't have a great voice either, but it was powerful. You know what I mean? It's not like he was a singer. It was just coming out. And he was shaking his leaves. But he's jutted up on this precipice. And that was at 3 o'clock in my line of vision. 9 o'clock, there's some kind of terraforma and

kind of universal stars and but it was like boom like everything everything else was completely gone everything else i could see kind of vague outlines in white light you just got a software update yeah for sure but this is the fucking this is another crazy factor i would turn my head to the left you know turn my head 90 degrees and, the shaman's at 3 o'clock. The terraform is at 9 o'clock. It did not matter which way I turned my head. I could lie down. I could go left.

I could go right. Didn't matter. My vision was stuck in the same spot. It's like any movements I made in the third dimension had absolutely no impact of what I was seeing in the eighth dimension. I guess if I wanted to look around in that dimension. Why is it the eighth all right so i'll get to that sorry about that but that's that's that was what i encountered that's that's the paradigm they used at the end of it they call you know they call where i was at that point the eighth dimension and and the reason why is um that's the penultimate dimension that's the the last one before the ninth, which is oneness with all creation,

which is just, you know, unification with, with all life, all creation that ever was, that ever will be pure solidarity with, with, with God,

with the universe, whatever you want. Is that supposed to be what you're hitting when he blows the cinnamon smoke on you? So that was actually the seventh dimension is what they were going. But to go back to where I, where I was, where I was there, I'll explain the paradigm as they see it see they give you a map of each dimension

they do afterwards tourist guides afterwards so um so yeah so at that at that point no visions were coming nothing was happening to me at all and i was completely lucid so i was like all right what can i do and i was thinking like well what would i want to do i was like well i got a friend who got in a car wreck i was like i wonder how he's doing and he's in atlanta and so was thinking like well what would I want to do I was like well I got a friend who got in a car wreck I was like I wonder how he's doing and he's in Atlanta and so I was like I wonder how he's doing boom I see him and he's in like a bar or restaurant I'm like oh snap like he just came immediately it didn't have to travel like I could see him right there and he's laughing talking with friends I was like well it looks like he's okay but I wonder if he really is and I was able to like look in his body and I see this like bad energetic something like this black part of in his rib cage and i was like oh that's

that's no good and i was like i wonder if i can get rid of that and i was like and i focused on pushing like white the golden light into his body and i was like fills his body and pushes this little missile out of his ribs and i was like oh shit like body and pushes this little missile out of his ribs. And I was like, oh, shit. Like, I don't know if that actually helped him, but that was pretty rad that I was able to do it. You know, I didn't know. Did you ever call him up afterwards? I couldn't call.

There's no cell phone. But I talked to him later. I talked to him later. He doesn't remember, like, the exact moment, but he said right around then, yeah, he started feeling way better. You know, so. What was wrong with him before that? He had a bad impact, got T-boned with some lady coming off the freeway,

hit the steering wheel, hit his head. So he felt better out of nowhere. Did you ask him, hey, man, have you ever been in a bar and then all of a sudden you feel better? Or did you say, hey, I did some freaky voodoo on you? Did you put the power of suggestion in his mind? Sadly, the next time I talked to him, I was fucking hammered. So I think we just got right into it.

It wasn't like I... You got to dance around that one to find out the real evidence. I know. So next time. Next time I'll do that. But he just breezed into town and I was like, yo, I'm just back from Peru. But anyway, so I didn't get the proper scientific explanation, but some loose correlation with how it worked.

Okay. But more concrete evidence on myself. I was like, all right, well, if I do that to him, what about myself? And I started scanning my body with my hands and my mind. And it was like a car mechanic looking at the car. Like, I was completely detached from it. I was like, oh, that's pretty good. Like, I did a pretty good job here. Like, that's from it i was like oh that's pretty good like i did a pretty good job here like that's not bad like this vessel's pretty good

and i was just giving it like a 10 point inspection and you know my glands that have always been swollen i was like ah there's something not quite right there so i like went and i like physically like started pulling out of out of my glands i was like well maybe i can pull what's bad out of there and i felt like i did And I felt like it stuck to my fingers. And I'm like shaking my fingers like, ah, get it off. I didn't know how to get it off. So I like shake it and some of it falls off. And then I put it in the ground and some of it like drips off.

And then I was like, oh, it's still not working. So I had a water then and I poured it on my fingers and that seemed to work. You know, who knows? Who knows about that? But since then, I haven't gotten like my glands have not been swollen at all and i've gotten like epstein-barr virus that always like has them a little bit swollen but not even a bit since then so i don't know now thank god you weren't just ripping your face off at that time by the way i was so lucid yeah oh i was so lucid like anything

i thought of and then i was like well yeah but listen to what you just said you said i was so lucid, like anything I thought of. And then I was like, well, what about this? Yeah, but listen to what you just said. You said, I was so lucid, but I was pulling my glands out. I was ripping my glands out. Rubbing it off of the dirt. It's weird, right? And shooting lung missiles out of your friend. Do you, when you hear stuff like this, you know, when you hear yourself say it, whose phone is that? Someone's got their phone right next to the thing. Anyway, you hear that shit, that feedback? That's a right next to the thing Anyway You hear that shit?

That feedback? That's a phone next to something Anyway When you hear yourself saying this And you hear yourself describing it Surely Part of you must Think how preposterous and ridiculous

This must sound to a skeptical person Sure Like you know A skeptical No nonsense Sort of a fucking Goldwater Republican Listening to this faggot shit

Yeah You know You listen to this faggot shit. You know, you listen to this ridiculous nonsense, these fucking pussy kids. What, you want to find yourself, huh? You want to find yourself? Yeah, yeah. Go off to the fucking jungle and take drugs? That's how you find yourself?

I mean, you must think. I mean, like, listen to, you know, this is like the main thing that people would criticize, you know, if they would hear about people trying to find themselves with drugs. Yeah, this fucking idiot thinks he's pulling cancer out of his glands. Do you hear that, though? If you can control your mind,

if you are what your mind believes it is, then if he thinks he's cleaning out his body, his brain will think he's cleaning out his body, and it might actually have something to it. Sure, or it's actually happening. I mean, either way. Or it's actually happening.

I mean, I was there, and I have to report it, honestly. Right, of course. I feel like that's my mission to come back. And I feel like it's one of the reasons why it happened to me is so I could talk about it and talk to you guys and get get it out there but the next thing i did was um was i looked at my business and very lucidly looked at all my marketing channels and different things um thought about alpha brain thought about the different things thought about you know very very conservative republican type thinking about my my life and my business and i saw some channels that i was working hard to produce and i was like there's no resources there and I could physically visualize you know where there was pools and these tubes that were feeding like a giant machine I was

like well I'm trying to build this tube to this pool of resources but there's nothing there like I got to cut that one off I was like this one is good but it's blocked you know they got to change that change the marketing you know change something on that so or you know think about this formula or that and I could visualize it perfectly and you know that's cool right now you know change something on that so or you know think about this formula or that and i could visualize it perfectly and you know that's cool right now you know business is going great so so you saw it in metaphors you saw it in a different sense than you saw it as you know here's here's a product here's the marketing instead of that you saw it as almost like energy or just something feed it was like feeding it was like feeding a machine like gas

fuel now do you have any idea did you talk to it like the other people were they also doing the same things or were other people like dude i saw dancing now i know why your microphone is so much louder than everybody else's you suck on that thing dude you get up in here like this back off a little everybody everybody else so was other people like like uh just like seeing dancing bears and they're like a lot of people yeah aquariums they were seeing their own demons or So was other people just seeing dancing bears? A lot of people, yeah. Aquariums, they were seeing their own demons or spirits or different things. Did you guys have shared visions?

No. No shared visions? No shared visions. You know, that's one of the things. When they first discovered it, when they started bringing it back to the Western world, they tried to call it telepathy because of shared experiences, but because of the scientific rules of nomenclature, because they isolated the compound as harming already, one of the compounds,

they went with that because it was the first description of it. But they were going to call it telepathy because of the shared experiences, but you didn't have any of that. There was some like husband and wife couples in different huts that did that were witnessing. One would just witness the other's entire experience and be like, they would try and talk to each other about it and be like, yeah, I know I saw the whole thing. So that happened. But as far as like the group in my setting, it seemed to

be more closely linked to family, you know to family ties or relationship, romantic ties, things like that, not necessarily what... So the shared experiences are with people that already have a relationship. That's what seemed to be happening in this trip. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, you're already tuned in together. You're already...

Well, there's that feeling always when you're in a relationship that you become a part of that person. feeling always when you're in a relationship that you become a part of that person you know i mean i i think every deep intense relationship that i've ever had you feel like it's more than just two people hanging out together somehow or another you you connect on some i don't want to say spiritual energy some sort of intangible level which is why breaking up is so painful yeah because a part of you is literally missing. You cannot feel whole. You can't sleep. You can't eat.

You don't feel right because some of you is missing. So that would kind of make sense that those are the type of people that would have a shared experience because they literally have their souls are somehow or another connected. They have some sort of an inexorable bond. And that's what played itself out. So you didn't have any experiences with your mom. Your mom only did it once.

No, she did it three times. She did it three times? She did it three times. Did she do it with you with the dragon? She was actually in that room that time. And she said she didn't see what I saw.