The Joe Rogan Experience - #1301 - Laird Hamilton

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

Laird Hamilton is a big-wave surfer, co-inventor of tow-in surfing, and co-founder, with his wife Gabrielle Reece, of XPT Training (Extreme Performance Training).

And we're live. It's a root, right? Yeah, it's in the ginger family. And is it, why do they call it Olena? That's just a Hawaiian name. I mean, the Indians probably have another. In India, it's probably one of the most used roots. It's in all Indian foods. It's full of it. Yeah, it's really healthy for you, right? It's great for inflammation.

Yeah, and gut health, too. healthy for you right it's great for inflammation yeah and well gut health too so you uh gave me this layered superfoods coffee machine and i'm addicted to this now this coffee with turmeric i've never had it before well there's some other minerals and stuff in there too so if you're addicted to it it's because there's things that are good for you yeah like i crave it yeah like it seems like something well your body wants. Well, your body wants it. Yeah. You know, I think sometimes people think cravings are based on negative. Like, oh, it's bad because I crave it. But I think cravings are natural. But it's, you know, we abuse it when we use garbage.

But when you're craving something like that, I mean, there's, you know, a bunch of minerals and a bunch of good fats. And there's a bunch of good stuff in there. Yeah, it's hard to tell though, right? Like sometimes you crave sugar. Sometimes you crave ice cream yeah there's some cravings that are not good exactly other ones are exactly but the system of craving i believe what is part of a natural human thing that we have that was meant to crave good things but we abuse it with because sugar in nature is meant to be safe that means it's safe to eat right right right so so yeah so then we so that but then we abuse it by

disguising a bunch of garbage with sugar and then people think oh that's great to eat that makes sense yeah because whenever i lift weights i crave protein yeah crave like fish or chicken or steak or something yeah well you're yeah you're beating up muscles you want protein yeah but it's an instantaneous craving yeah like it's like right away i'm like oh i gotta eat something yeah um so you've got me cranking the sauna up uh your wife told me do you crank yours up to 220 degrees is that real that's real god damn man i get to 210 i'm like this is how long do you do at 220 well it depends on how how cold you go into it oh so if your if your body if your core temperature is weighed down you can you know it if you if you got off a stationary bike and your core was nice and hot and you went in there

you know you'd be lucky to get 10 or 10 or 15 minutes out if you come out of a ice tub or you've been outside with minimal clothing you could go in there and for 20 minutes at 220 so it just depends on you know where your what your core you know where your core is is that how you do it you do from an ice path i will do it from a nice path it just you know i think you just break it up it's just like anything any kind of training you just want to constantly stress the system. And if you're used to a certain pattern, you know, go into it hot. Like if you go into a sauna hot coming off of some cardio, it's twice as hot.

If you go in cold, then you can go for a longer period of time. And same with the ice. I mean, if you go into the ice cold, the ice will tap you. If you go in hot, you can be there. Yeah, they're doing Some studies now On hot yoga At a Harvard They're trying to figure out

If hot yoga mimics The positive health effects Of sauna And so the idea is that You know because You're straining And resisting It feels much hotter

Than 104 degrees If you had a sauna That was 104 105 degrees It'd be nothing For sure But yoga at 105 degrees Is pretty rough

Rough Well because again core temperature is hot so we do some stationary bikes in the sauna oh wow and that i mean that's just it's like you can always up the ante you know it's like a weight stack you just slap more lead on there and uh we'll do we'll do we'll go in this with an assault bike i have an assault bike in one of the saunas and we'll crank that thing up and you know i mean you're lucky for you might be five or ten minutes in your your but i think you know we're such good adapters or our you know our adaptation is amazing and you do some stuff for a while i think you do pretty soon you're like oh i can handle a you know an assault bike and at a

survivable pace you know yeah survival that's a rough machine rough machine i have the rogue version the echo bike yeah that thing is fantastic i love it for sure that's all four limbs yeah all four limbs it's one of my all-time fit two tabatas i do tabata sprints on it my all-time favorite method of cardio for sure for sure well low impact on the system you're not beating every the joints up every All four things are working. And you get toast. You could throw in some nose breathing in there or something and breath holding intervals or something just to, you know, just pain and suffering. You were explaining nose breathing to me out there.

Yeah. How nose breathing is better. Better for you. Because of. Well, first of all, you were designed to breathe. Your sinuses and your nose were designed for breathing. And so you actually emit a gas in your sinuses. From my understanding, a gas called nitric oxide, which is a vasodilator, helps you absorb oxygen.

So by breathing through your nose, plus you reduce the amount of intake that you have, and that gets you CO2 tolerant. So all of a sudden you're breathing less volume i mean you know from the fight game as soon as a guy goes to mouth breathing you're like he's toast you know that right that's your first giveaway so your ability to deal with stress and breathe through your nose i mean everybody should be breathing through their nose in their sleep walking around i mean we somehow we became mouth breathers in the last 200 years and they're not sure why there's a great book called the oxygen advantage uh by patrick mcdougall that uh he actually is on our board of xpt but he he you know kind of realized that our issues

really stem from mouth breathing chronic uh mouth breathing which is scrubbing our co2 and keeping our co2 levels down which is the marker to absorb oxygen so when your co2 levels are down you don't absorb the oxygen from your bloodstream the cells don't take it as soon as the co2 goes up then the then the body starts to pull it out of the blood interesting so smaller amounts by breathing through the nose actually makes you absorb more oxygen. Well, keeps your tolerance. Keeps your tolerance. Yeah. But definitely gets your CO2 tolerance up, but the smaller volume helps your body become

more tolerant of higher levels of CO2. But the sinuses themselves emit a gas that helps the lung absorb the oxygen. And that's what I've been led to understand. I had a broken nose until I was 40. My nose was useless. I couldn't get anything out of it. It had been broken like who knows how many times. And the inside was all caked up with scar tissue and calcified.

And when I got it fixed, it was like the world changed. It was like, I couldn't do that. I just couldn't breathe out of my nose. I would go to yoga class. They'd tell me to breathe out of my nose. I'm like, I don't have one. I could smell farts. That's it i could smell gas and gasoline like it has to be rough yeah for me to smell it but now i have a real nose yeah i always encourage people

please if you have a broken nose please get that deviated septum fixed well you know it's surprising if you start to nose breathe even if you have struggle because of the that gas helps you open up a lot of people i mean you know i'm not saying that you have that, but a lot of people actually will gain volume after a few weeks of forcing themselves to nose breathe. They'll actually start to open up all of that system. That actually makes sense. So it's – Yeah, your body would just adapt and try to figure out a way. It forces it to open, but yeah, it's all about nose breathing.

Wow. I didn't think, I just thought it was just more difficult. So it's probably a good thing to do for discipline. Absolutely. And if you can do your cardio and retain a nose breath, you have another gear. Because then when you go to mouth, it's like having a blower in your car or something. You open up the air yeah and it's a whole new game so by being able to sustain a high output with nose breathing then

and like i said it's all about the tolerance for co2 it's how much co2 you can handle in your system you know like that's why altitude screws people up because the co2 jacks up and they don't have a tolerance and then you get all wonky and you feel like crap yeah and it's interesting you're talking about cravings because one of the things that i've noticed since i've been i cranked up the to the the temperature in the sauna for the first week to 200 degrees then i've been doing 210 for the last few days and uh you crave it now i crave it like when i'm at home i'm like i can't wait to get back in that goddamn sauna again meanwhile when i'm in there i can't wait to get out it's weird.

There within lies the struggle. Yeah. I mean, the ice is the same way. Like, I have an addiction to ice. And, you know, recently I've been, just came back from Hawaii, and I'm, like, dealing with this ice machine's broken down. I've been waiting for the new one. I keep calling the guy and go, hey, when are you going to put the thing in?

And he's thinking it's like a luxury. Like, yeah, you know, you got to, what do you need an ice machine at your house for? I mean, because I have two, like restaurant size ones two of them yeah and well i have a lot of friends uh but but but he's like what do you need that for and i'm like uh i like just just get you know he's got the tubs i'm like i need but i my body craves you get it listen your body is just craving the things that are bringing the hormones and doing i mean it's like why you crave exercise. You know,

I have a theory that the reason why people are hooked to cardio activity is because it's forced breathing that people, because you wouldn't willingly just sit on your floor and breathe heavy for an hour. So your body's like, okay, let's go for a run. Like,

let's go. You need to run. You better run. You better run. And then you go run. And then the body gets that absorption of, it gets that oxygen that it really wants. I feel like there's probably several factors because also I feel like when I'm really consistent with my workouts, I know that I'm gaining momentum.

And I know like, ah, you know, I'm consistent. Everything's going great. I'm in great shape right now. I got to keep pushing this. That feels like it's – it like just just positive results are being achieved and you sort of get addicted to success well and and but also to the body the adaptation if you ever put yourself under some real severe stress in multiple days the first day you feel like you're not going to be able to make it the second day you're feeling you know like you can't really

can't make it the third pretty soon the fourth day the body's like oh this is the new house we're living in like this is where we're at okay well we're gonna adapt and modify and then pretty soon you're doing even more you're than you were doing the first couple days and you're not even feeling it yeah and so it's like we're that we're an amazing an amazing machine you know we're an amazing creature just the way we can handle the load And especially in our new world Where we don't have to do much Yeah, unless we want to Do you know who Eddie Izzard is?

Yeah The comedian? Yeah He ran a series of marathons all around the UK And he did one in South Africa And he was on two weeks ago And he was telling me that When you first started doing it

The first few were really hard But then your body's like well this is what we do we run marathons and then like day three day four things started picking up day five and by the time day 10 came along he's just running for sure yeah for sure i got a friend ran 125 in a row and then he ran the boston after that and then he had a fight in vegas and he ran a marathon in the morning and then he like knocked the guy out in the third round and after i mean he's And he ran a marathon in the morning And then he like Knocked the guy out In the third round And after I mean he's just He ran a marathon in the morning

And then fought that day Holy shit That's a cool Who is this? Tom Jones Yeah Muay Thai Seven time Muay Thai world champion Jesus Christ Tom Jones

Yeah What the fuck man You run a marathon The day you fight Imagine if a dude Knocked you out After you ran a marathon I'd be like

That's I'm done This is not me Yeah i'm gonna learn how to play golf yeah fuck this yeah muay thai fuck this and fuck tom joe yeah that's crazy so he ran 125 marathons in a row so 125 days of marathons to boston and then he ran the boston when he got there he ran across the country what he ran across the country so that's how he got there well so he did run a marathon took a nap got eats of food ran a marathon took a nap it's a what the fuck but it just shows you that you know that ability to adapt and and what we can you know what we can do it's amazing how the body will just when you push it and you keep it'll just be like it'll ramp i mean and i think for us in

this in our new world that we live in that seems so crazy but probably in the past we were like oh yeah well we went all the way down to south america and we did some hunting down there and then we you know trekked a marathon or two per day and we came all the way back to alaska you know like right you know like that was just our life yeah well especially when they used to persistence hunt you know when they would just run an animal down yeah animals yeah are great for sprints but for especially like gazelles and things along those lines but you know what you know what the real technique really is based on is that our breathing that breathing is what gives us we have an ability to adjust our breath so we can actually adjust how many times we breathe per motion where a lot of these animals

are breathing for a rep every rep is a breath so every step is and we can do multiple steps in one breath and so that's why our that's why we can outrun a horse at the end of the day you always see that in the cowboy movies the horse is laying dead in the desert and the guy's still going along but because the those mammals are breathing every breath is a rep and you imagine how tiring that is like you hear a horse run right they're breathing every and we're we running full speed but we can just do a breath and then do five or six or eight reps and that gives us that endurance that's why we can run those gazelles down because those guys are just breathe they're they're breathed out that's

interesting well i'm always very appreciative of guys like you that are in my age range you're 55 yeah i'm 51 yeah yeah it's like limit you're but you're also very fit and very active and you keep going whereas a lot of guys around 55 like it's a wrap turn off the car yeah there's not much in the tank and so i like to see guys that are in my age bracket a little bit ahead of me like oh he oh, he's going. I can keep going too. Full speed. And I think a lot of that is just thinking and knowing that you can

because I think so many people feel like, hey, I'm 45. It's time to settle down. It's time to relax and wind down this exercise. But I think people use that as a disclaimer to not do the work.

That's what I'm thinking. It's like now I'm 45, so now I don't – I'm too old. Yeah. That, for me, I think that's a way out. Right? That's a way to go, hey, I don't want to do the work anymore. And I have – one of my best friends just passed this last year, and he was 85 when he passed.

And he was – I mean, he did the Ironman 10 times. The first time was when he was 50. And then he's done the Race Across America three times. I mean, he was just an animal. Bang iron every day, ride the bike. Just an animal. At 85, he was doing all that still? An animal.

An animal until the day he died. I was like, and his name was, and the irony was, his name was Don Wildman. And so, like, that's his given name. No, I'm serious. that's his given name. No, I'm serious. That's his, his given name. I go, anybody named the wild man's got to keep it up. But he was, you know, like you're talking about, uh, when you can see it, right. When you go, what does it look like when I see, I mean, you look at, it's interesting to see in sports right now, we have a lot of athletes right now that are operating as they're the oldest that, know that they that we've seen and i believe a lot of

it has to do with the fact that that uh you know that they've have some examples but they're also not take accepting that hey now you're too old like that's because that's a decision like hey oh now you're too old oh yeah you you know you're gonna keep doing that it's like yeah you're gonna do it all the way until they throw the dirt on the box you know like we're going all the way full speed until we're not and then when we're not we're not what did uh mr wild man die of uh it was eventually it was a cancer that he couldn't get uh fight through chemo and so but but it was within like a couple weeks like he just was like shut it down um he was at one point he was like the he was a little bit like the Ever Ready Bunny and Humpty Dumpty. He would just like double knee surgery.

He had a broken leg and he'd be on a stationary bike with a crutch on one of the pedals. And he'd be pedaling and crutching on the other leg. I mean, he was just absolutely out of his mind. And the doctors would be like, like oh you're healing faster than a 30 year old and i'm like yeah well he's because he's just a cardio monster and so he's getting that blood flow and uh and he uh we were helicopter snowboarding in chile this last summer not this one but the one before and i was with the i'm with the guide and the guy goes hey you know how old your buddy and i'm like he's 84 and he looked at me and he's guide and the guide goes, hey, how old is your buddy? And I'm like, he's 84.

And he looked at me and he's like, yeah, no, I mean, but how old is he? And I'm like, he's 84. And he's like, yeah, he's 84. Like, check it out, buddy. He's going fakey and like – I mean, he's – but he was our poster child. He's our guy. We look at him. We go – I mean, and i've had a few of those

i think you know that i've been exposed to in my life where there's guys that just those are the guys that i always admired i always admired the guys that just were always going full speed and never never you know they didn't succumb to the all that all that pressure from society like hey you're old now we can still do that what do you think you're a kid just all the all that all that pressure from society like hey you're old now you can still do that what do you think you're a kid just all the bullshit that you can feed into uh and and be a victim of yeah we have these preconceived notions of what it's like to be 30 what it's like to be 50 what it's like to be 85 and some people like yeah you can fuck that i'm not interested yeah because they're never looking at age as some as some like feeling like, yeah, you can fuck that. I'm not interested. Yeah, because they're never looking at age as some feeling.

They're never going, oh, 35, you feel like this. At 40, oh, you're slowing down now. And they just, you lay down. It's like, you know, I always say if people stop doing something, like they go, oh, I'm going to retire now. I'm getting old in the sport. It's really not that they're getting old. It's just that they've made a decision that they don't want to do anymore. And they just use the age as like a disclaimer, like, oh, I'm going to retire now. I'm getting old in the sport. It's really not that they're getting old. It's just that they've made a decision that they don't want to do anymore.

And they just use the age as a disclaimer, like, hey, I'm good. Yeah, for some folks, I think it's a mental tiredness. For sure. Keeping up their enthusiasm is probably the difficult thing. And that's why I think a lot of people look forward to retirement, right? They look forward to those golden years where they're just holding hands and walking towards the sunset just jump on a sword i mean no i'm just i mean that's just like at that point you're just then you're just alive dead yeah you know you're just you're you're dead but you're alive like but i think some people look forward to some day where they don't have

to struggle then they can't be on earth yeah you can't be well you can't i mean like i'm sorry the system is a little bit designed to struggle everything that we do that's good for us has a has a certain amount of stress it's like you want to get that sauna you want to get on that salt bike you want to jump in that ring you want to hike that mountain it's all stress driven and the fact is that's our universe that's the universe we live in and and so if you got some other and and you know and i appreciate let's hack our way through it and i think there's ways that hacking supports us we can hack our way to but only support the things that we're doing yeah but thinking that you can just hack your way through and not actually

suffer it's impossible you just you gotta suffer i also think you don't appreciate the good times unless you suffer absolutely absolutely i think i appreciate food more when i work out i appreciate life more i i like doing things more when i struggle absolutely i can tell you i know sitting down is an incredible thing like Like when you go, wow, this feels so good. Just to sit down. Yeah, because you're straining so hard. Yeah. For sure.

But a lot of people don't recognize that. That's a lesson I think people really need to get drilled into their head. It's not that tricky. Right. No, I'm just saying, this isn't rocket science. This isn't like elaborate. It's available for everybody. Just move.

Yeah, just move. Just keep going drive it hard yeah and i can promise you you'll you'll you'll sleep better like everybody we have a lot of sleeping issues right now and i i'm just like well people aren't tired enough like my daughter was like oh yeah you know having a hard time sleeping and now she's been banging tennis balls seven hours a day and i'll tell you she's not having a problem sleeping now right like she's sleeping real well i'm like yeah and i you know i i think that a lot of it's this a lack of movement we're just we just stop moving yeah and then your brain races because your body's not getting exhausted so you develop all this anxiety and all this weirdness hunter gatherers

did not have the need for ambient i guarantee it guarantee it. There was no melatonin. There was no need. Yeah, the melatonin was created in their retina from staring at the sun in the early morning light. I mean, they were up. They were moving, and they were up early, and they were going until dark, and at dark it was time to lay down,

and then you just did that, and you were not, sleep issues weren't a problem back then.'s it's interesting i'm learning from my dog because my dog is up first thing in the morning when the sun is up and then when when it starts getting dark out once he eats man he's just laying down he's like what's up i'm just chilling over here oh yeah well and i i'm uh constantly studying my dog i would have brought, but he's getting his nails done today. Is he really? Yeah.

Yeah, well, because he's just ripping up the floor. He's got some hooks. But I watch him, never leaves his bed without stretching first, in the morning, first thing, up dog, down dog, full up, down dog, and then full speed, 80 miles an hour, like a little rocket, and then just right to the couch and lay down. And then just be totally sleeping, and then just up, full speed, back to the couch and lay down. I go, there's something to be said about that thing. A little stretch, full speed, lay down. Full speed, lay down.

But no warm-up. No warm-up. No warm-up. But people need warm-up. Do you agree? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about warm-up.

I think warm-up is being alive. I think, you know, I mean, we never warmed up. What's that? What about if you're going to lift something heavy? Do you think that you should warm the muscles up first? Well, I think if you set the thing up and you put everything on and you set it all up, you're already starting to warm up. And if you're psyching up and getting your brain ready to do something aggressive,

I think that you've already, the adrenaline's already going and you've got a lot of stuff. to warm up and if you're psyching up and getting your brain ready to do something aggressive i think that you've already the adrenaline's already going and you got a lot of stuff i mean i know if you just get up off a chair and walk over and try to grab a giant bar with a bunch of weight on it and lift it that might be a problem but that wouldn't be you would never do that in nature when you were going to lift something heavy it usually there'd be some lead up to it whether you walk to the place that you were going to and you got the thing and you know i i mean you know i i don't know i don't know about about because i think there's mixed opinions about you know people say don't stretch before you work out and that's been the most recent thing before it used to be oh yeah loosen up before you work out i'm like i mean my dog does down dog you know up

dog down dog and that's only after he's laying down and then he just i'm like i mean my dog does down dog you know up dog down dog and that's only after he's laying down and then he just goes full speed i mean well i know that if i do muay thai if i'm hitting the bag or something like that i don't go hard at first yeah break a sweat yeah i do the first two rounds i'm just shadow boxing yeah i'm just i mean i don't fully full blast the bag until i'm sweaty. But that's just my thoughts. I mean, I feel like that's the way you're supposed to do it. That's what I've always been told.

Yeah. I mean, I think I would connect that more to part of it is because of what we are now. Because we're sedentary. Yeah. We're not what we, you know, we are not fully in our nature essence. We're not fully in our nature essence. We're not wild. If we were wild, I think we wouldn't need as much, any warmup. When you're wild, you don't need a warmup.

But I think because we're not moving as much, because if you're moving all the time, you'd already be warmed up. I would like to see a human from like 5,000 years ago. I'd love to be around like a hunter-gatherer and see what they looked like. Their pain threshold was crazy, first of all. What they could endure. You know their pain threshold was just ridiculous. Right, because they had broken bones. Like broken arm and be like, we'd still be operating with broken stuff, no problem. Yeah, what did they do?

They just kind of like tied it up or something. I mean, I don't know what they did. That was when they advanced into medical. Right, right. Yeah, right. just kind of like tied it up or something i mean i don't know what that was that was when they advanced into medical right yeah right a lot of them probably just hobbled around until it didn't hurt well that's where inflammation came in everything got inflamed so they would hold it you know naturally the body would hold it in position so that you i mean inflammation is designed to kind of immobilize it cast it it would you know if it was your ankle it just gets so swollen it couldn't move but they'd still be on it they'd still be rolling it just they wouldn't be moving it around because the body would naturally do that the future of humans does not look so rosy when you

really think about how we're slowly deteriorating becoming these gelatinous balls of meat and one tissue and the bodies are connected to the brains and so that's why we have some mind issues too because at the end of the day the bodies aren't functioning correctly so that's not feeding the brain correctly and so the brain that's why we i mean i think that when you're really physically well then your thoughts are physically well i think it's definitely it definitely helps but people do not like to hear that. Do you notice that? Have you noticed that? Yeah, absolutely.

You don't even like, you seem like a happy guy. I don't think you're on any medication. No, no. But some people who are want to think like, no, no, no, I have a medical problem and I need this. Even if they don't exercise, they go, no, no, no, you don't understand. And then if I say, okay, but do you ever exercise? They get mad at you. Absolutely.

They get mad. Absolutely. You're suggesting I'm lazy. You're suggesting I brought this upon myself because of my behavior. Yeah, no. No, I have a disease. Yeah. No, again, I think that's a disclaimer.

That's a way out to not have to be accountable. Be accountable. Like, hey, that if I was out Doing Moving And doing things That it would actually Make this go away You know I mean

I think that You know I think a lot of A lot of depression Is connected to That you know I believe Icing

Could cure A big portion Of depression Just because of the Hormonal response To the system And that you know i mean normally when people are depressed it's connected to some sort of hormone imbalance yes

and to have a doctor try to figure out what that is it's pretty elaborate it's pretty tricky well they've shown in studies that regular exercise is as effective at ssris or more exactly yeah exactly i think also diet Because of inflammation Like the inflammation For sure leads to All sorts of different ailments Which could lead to A depressed feeling

A feeling of unwellness Well just Eat a bunch of garbage For a week And see how you feel Yeah I'd be depressed Yeah

Or just drink some Laird superfood Turmeric coffee Stuff's the shit man So the sauna thing What is the benefit Of getting it that hot Drink some Laird Superfood Turmeric Coffee. This stuff's the shit, man. So the sauna thing, what is the benefit of getting it that hot? Well, I mean, the problem, I don't know. Listen, honestly, my problem is that if a lot is good, then even more is better.

That's me. That's a little bit. That's my mentality. That's what I think. We're both stupid. No, I'm just saying like yeah you know if 10 is good then 20 has got to be better even better but you know i think part of it is the natural evolution if you're sitting there doing time at you know 180 degrees and you and you can go in there and you're you know you're hanging out and then just 20 minutes it's 30 minutes you

might as well just try to turn it up. And my understanding is that the Europeans, I mean, you look at a sweat lodge and you, I mean, it ain't 180. If you go into any kind of sweat lodge, if you go to Europe, all the saunas are much hotter. It's like you go into a Russian steam thing. It's not like those things are, know i i think that they're pretty conservative with it i think i think you just listen to your body if you go in there and you start hallucinating you might want to step out you know you might be like hey you know uh maybe i eat something wrong or maybe i need to just give my body a break but i think you just use your you

know use your your your own feeling uh as as your guide and and you know i know that i if i if i'm high properly hydrated before i go my tolerance is substantially greater like i can really measure it i can be hydrated go in and be like oh yeah no problem and i can go in dehydrated and feel wonky and be like yeah i'm not as good that makes sense yeah i definitely have adapted i've definitely adapted to 200 degrees because when i go to yoga now, it does not seem nearly as hot. 105 degrees, even at the end of the class, I'm like, this is interesting. I was thinking at the last class, I was like, this doesn't feel that bad. Exactly.

Yeah. Well, that shows you right there that you're adapting and then all of a sudden your tolerance. You know, a thing I really like about the sauna is i think it really plays into into overheating as an athlete that over you know you overheat and that's usually when you have issues right yeah as you overheat and then you and then you your performance is is encumbered right you just and so the more your tolerance is for the heat the less the more you can handle overheating pretty soon you don't overheat and then you just don't have that because that that's one of the factors that gets an athlete i think is in in any performance is you overheat if whether you're fighting or marathon running or

basketball any any sport when you start to overheat you're that's usually when you're you're toast you're done you start losing your motor skills and you're tall if you can build that tolerance up and i think like you said hey if you go in 200 and 220 and then all of a sudden you're at yoga you know you're at hot yoga and it's 105 and you're just like yeah it seems like nothing yeah it really does make a giant difference i've only been doing it at 200 for a couple months now yeah really and 210 like for like i said the last few days yeah but you have been doing it this hot for how long well i've been doing it for a while like i've been doing it's been after over the last couple years you know i did one uh i did a protocol that uh i heard on

dr ronda patrick's uh show and she and it was uh holding uh a one hour uh a one hour straight at somewhere between 170 to 180 whoa so that's another and you if you do that 10 days in a row i was doing it twice a day for 10 days in a row and you're supposed to get like some 1600 hormonal boost like your whole body just goes into this radical hormone so 170 to 180 somewhere in that range interesting 171 say one straight. I was doing that and I did it twice a day for 10 days in a row. And at the end of that, you got a different gear. It's like all of a sudden you got OD in your gearbox. Interesting. Well, it definitely increases the red blood cell count, correct? Absolutely. I mean, I don't know all the science. I just usually go off of instinct, and then sometimes it gets validated by science. And there really isn't any studies on it, but I truly believe that heat is better after performance for recovery than ice. I mean, I think ice is comfortable.

I had my – I have a whole thing about pain, a relationship with pain, and I was doing a thing with – I had a hip replacement. And I was set up to do all this icing before. And then I learned that icing suppresses the healing hormone. IGF-1, there's a healing hormone that helps your body heal. And pain kicks that hormone off. That's how the body knows. So when you suppress pain, you stop that healing. So you go on ice, you suppress that hormonal release of IGF-1, it's the healing hormone,

and all of a sudden, it's going to slow your healing down. So if you do it because it makes you comfortable, like, hey, if you've been running around and you're overheating and you're going to go on an ice tub because it feels good, that's one thing. But if you think that it's going to benefit you, I'm not sure. I don't know yet. I think heat could be the better benefit because you've got heat shock proteins, which deal with damaged cells and all that stuff. And I'm not listening.

This is just stuff that I hear that I'm feeling. Full disclaimer, we're both not doctors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Dennis Miller. This is my opinion. I could be wrong, of course. So, you know, and then they talk about growth hormone, that your body produces growth hormone in the heat, right, as another one of the side effects.

And so, again, from my understanding, and I'm not a doctor, so when I hear that, I go, well, then heat should be the thing you do. Because after every game, every football, every basketball player, every athlete goes right to the ice tub. And I go, if you're going there for comfort okay cool that's great but if you think that that's actually the thing that's really benefiting you know really going to bring you the best recovery maybe maybe heat's going to bring you the best recovery but it's going to be miserable because last thing you want to do after you finish a workout is go sit in the hot box right you're just not yeah gonna be happy but they but for injuries though for injuries they say you should reduce the inflammation. But what you're saying, that's interesting, right?

Well, the more pain, the more, you know, the old saying, no pain, no gain, right? Is that true, though? No pain, no gain. No pain, no gain. I mean, everything's painful. Like, if you go in the heat, it's discomfort. You go in the workout, you get sore. I mean, no pain, no gain.

So if we go with the old, that old, no pain no gain i believe that the pain is associated with the healing because of that hormonal response that pain brings into you so um i would attribute like i had a a fast recovery but i i attribute some of it is because that i i was not suppressing any of the pain so if i think if you take pain meds that's suppressing healing. So if you say, hey, I'm so uncomfortable, I got to pop pain pills to endure this because it's so hard. Well, then just extend the healing that you're just going to. And the more you suppress the pain, no matter which way you do it, whether it's ice, pain pills, whatever it is, I believe the longer you extend the healing, the more pain you can take. I mean, inflammation is the marker for that healing hormone so again reduce inflammation i don't know if that's that's again i i would like to a doctor

and somebody to tell me that really has a study that's that they know that they've really looked at to tell me that that's really working that that the icing i mean if you do it immediately right when you get you know you snap your ankle and you go Right in an ice tub bucket and keep it From fully uh you know inflaming maybe In that instantaneous but doing it over Days and i think that's just pain i Think that's just comfortable making

More comfortable that's interesting Because you always see basketball Players with ice on their shoulders ice On their knees like right after games. Well, comfort. Yeah, I was just thinking they have to play so many games in a row, though. Yeah, but it's also comfort. Right.

Comfort. I mean, I think it's because it feels good. If your shoulder's all jacked up and you numb it, you know, just like a pain pill would do. This is just a topical numbing. Icing is just creating a – you know, the guy that, that created rice, which is like. Rest ice,

compression and elevation. He came out last year and said, I was all wrong. So no, he did. That guy came out last year. Well, then the last couple of years,

he should feel really bad. Well, everybody's been saying that forever. But so he came out and said, you know, that he, he was, you know, that he, he, he takes it all back it all back so you know i don't know i mean i just think i think there's no absolutes i i don't

i but i i i'd be interested i've been trying to learn about it like hey can you really tell me what really is the best thing or or maybe it's heat and ice combo you know that that heat nice combo because that does so much Flushing to the system You know Squeeze down The ice squeezes everything And then all of a sudden

The heat expand Yeah So your contraction Expansion And that I know that that is a You know But that takes energy too

That tires you down Yes More than You know Than the heat But the heat You do do ice bath Heat

Ice bath heat Back to back? Yeah, I'll do like, sometimes I'll take, I'll do it on a Sunday. I'll do like seven rounds of that stuff.

You know, nine rounds. How much time are you spending? You get, you know, you're, well, that's why we want the intensity,

right? Right. So the colder it is, the shorter you have to be there and the hotter it is, the shorter you have to be there. Right. So if you're hanging out,

so if you could get it down to 15 minutes and, you know, three to five minutes, let's say three minutes in the ice and 15 minutes in the sauna, then all of a sudden, you know, let's say 20 minutes around, then you're, you know, then here you go. You got, you know, two and a half, three hours, you know. That's why 170 to 180, you do a whole hour versus 210. Yeah, but that's a whole different protocol. That was just a one I heard about.

And I just try, I tried it. Part of it is because hard to stay in that thing for an hour straight at 170. I mean, it's, that's not an easy task. Are you listening to anything in there? Are you, are you just. Just the beat of my heart. Did you bring anything in music or anything yeah i'll listen to music or something like that or a podcast or get somebody else to

suffer with me oh yeah just get some try to try to suck hard try to get somebody else and maybe they come in for half and then they're back out and then they come in for the other part or something when i'm on the road i try to get comedians to come in the sauna with me at a hotel and it's only like 150, 160. And they're like, I'm out. I'm like, you're out? You've been here for 15 minutes. This ain't shit.

It's so easy. But it's all what you're – it's in your brain. It's in your mind. We're so domesticated. We're so domesticated. Oh, it's hot. It's cold. It's this.

And we're just, we're. Now, is this something that's you, or is this the whole surfing community? Are they into this kind of stuff? No, I mean, you know what's interesting is, because I'm a surfer, obviously everybody thinks, oh, you know all the surfers and you're friends with the surfers. Actually, I'm not. I really am kind of outside of the community itself. I have friends that surf, but I'm so not part of, you know, and in my career, I haven't been part of the industry of surfing and really. So in a way,

I'm, I mean, I have friends that surf that come and do it. And we've definitely, there's been some influence into, I mean, surfers in general, at least the good ones are training and using these ice heat protocols. And so they're aware and motivated. But surfing in general is, you know, I mean, I don't even know what half those guys are doing. Well, I would think that they would be looking to you. I mean, if I was a young surfer and I'd say, man, I fucking love surfing. I'd like to be doing this when I'm 55.

What's Laird Hamilton doing? Yeah, but I don't know. I think sometimes the, you know, I mean, I think for a lot of, obviously it's changed now, but in the past, I mean, you know, and it happens a lot with the younger people in general. It's just like, don't tell me what to do. I can eat whatever I want and do whatever I want.

I can go to Taco Bell and Burger King and stay up all night and still, you know, rip, you know, or do my thing. And it's true probably in every sport. And then, you know, I always say there's 1,000, you know, 20-year-olds, and then there's 500 30-years-olds, and then there's 250 40-year-olds. And then there's like, you know, and then you just go as you go. And there's less and less. And, you know, I always love that, the term, the victory through attrition, you know, when you're just the last guy. If you're just the last guy and you're standing, you don't have to be any good. You just win.

You're like the winner. You're like, you won. You're the only guy left. You know, that kind of thing yeah i like that just you you've been following this just to improve your physical performance just for life absolutely absolutely and and uh you know i i think i really cherish i cherish uh feeling good i cherish feeling good like i really enjoy feeling good and so that drives me towards you know wanting and like i said either whether i had paul check years ago uh went and did an assessment with him and he's an interesting guy very yeah and watching his

stuff a lot online yeah and and uh him and i had a a an instant connection and and but you know i i love the philosophical approach to certain things like he he said and this had a huge impact on me you know 25 years ago or he was like you know the three white devils are white flour white sugar and white milk and i'm like okay like chocolate milk drink that yeah yeah yeah just put cacao in it But if you put raw cacao and raw milk together, that's a powerful drink. Yeah. That's for real. But if you put dead milk.

Homogenized, pasteurized, yeah. Just abused. And then you take some really bad cacao, if there's any at all in it, with a bunch of who knows, you can't pronounce it. You know, he said, if it wasn't here 10,000 years ago, don't eat it. If you can't pronounce it, don't eat it. And then the three white devils. I mean, that's a philosophical. I have a hard time with turmeric, though.

Yeah. Why? It's just the word. I struggle pronouncing it. Yeah, yeah. But it was here 10,000 years ago, so you're covered. So I'm fine. Yeah.

Those are good pieces of advice, though. Yeah. But just to look at food that way, it's like people go, what's your diet? I go plants and animals. Yeah. Plants and animals. Like what, you know, like don't make it difficult. Don't be like, well, I eat this and that.

I think that the stress around that stuff is, is crazy. But I, I, I, I really believe that to truly be, to have optimum performance and to be, and to be optimum, that you have to have the whole, every spoke in the tire, that you need every single spoke, that you have to have a good relations with your family. You got to have love and you got to have good things with your kids and you got to have friends and you got to have your health and you got to sleep well and you got to be hydrated and you got to work out and you got to have your business thing. And you got to sleep well and you got to be hydrated and you got to work out and you got and you got to have a you know your business thing and you got to have i think you just have to have all these things to really have balance and i think if you if if one of the spokes isn't tight

that there's a bump in the wheel and then you're just not gonna i don't truly believe that that you you're performing at your optimum because you need your head needs to be clear when you go into your performance whatever that looks like. I think that's excellent advice. I think that makes a lot of sense, and it definitely keeps your mind clear. You know you have your bases covered. Covered. You're not here but there but somewhere else.

And I know I've dealt with not having all the spokes good, and I know how that feels, and I know when it's good, you're clear. You're good. And it's how we're meant to be. I mean we're meant to have that be real clean we're meant to have that there be some balance balance you gotta have it yeah that's why i mean even overworking i mean people think that you know they think that's a badge of honor yeah yeah like oh yeah i work my thing and i don't sleep and i'm like yeah well then you're compromising yourself yeah i told elon musk that did you yeah i was i went to spacex

one time and i pulled him aside he was standing i'd go hey you know you got to take care of this put my hand on his chest i just go you gotta take care of this but you got to take care of you what'd he say he just yeah i think i don't know if he understood he's a robot yeah he i don't think he understood barely a person i'm just saying i don't think he no i just i don't think that with all due respect and yeah but i don't think he understood me. He's barely a person. I'm just saying, I don't think he – I say that with all due respect and complimentary. Yeah, but I don't think he understood what I meant. I felt like someone like that, if they were really taking good care of themselves, getting the right sleep, getting in the right food, getting a workout, all those things, imagine. Imagine. If they can do what they're doing, burning it on both ends, imagine what they could do fully balanced. Well, I don't think he wants to do any more do what they're doing You know Burning it on both ends

Imagine what they could do Fully balanced Well I don't think he wants to do Any more than what he's doing I just think he's so obsessed With getting Tesla to run correctly When he was sleeping On the floor of the Tesla factory

And working 17 hours a day I mean that's That's an insane person I mean he was just there All day long Trying to make it work. And obviously, it does work. They're amazing cars.

Everything's – it's beneficial, this drive that he has. But I agree with you. Like for overall enjoyment of life, that's not the way to go about it. Well, and I think you have a blockage there, though, too. I think if you can't pull back and look at it from a distance when you're in it, I think you get too detailed, and then you can't be – I think it could be better because of that. I think maybe it would be profitable. It's hard, man.

It's a hard fucking business. Yeah. I mean, you're competing against the big boys. Yeah, right. But what's interesting is even though they are doing that, he's managed to make something that's so different than anything else. Do you have one? No, I don't.

Fuck, man. They're crazy. I was reluctant. I told him I'd buy one when he did the podcast. Yeah. But I was like, God damn it. I like muscle cars. I like hearing engines.

But I drove that thing. I was like, oh, other cars are stupid. They're all stupid. They are. They're engines. But I drove that thing. I was like, oh, other cars are stupid. They're all stupid. They are. They're archaic compared to that thing. They are. And you see all the companies going that way now. You can see.

I mean, we were, because my buddy Wildman and I were into electric stuff. And we went, and there was a guy that had an electric dragster. And we went down with this electric dragster. And it just smoked any top fuel dragster, like, beyond. But it didn't make noise, so no one wanted to watch it. So, I mean, and you're like, what happened? No smell, no noise, no flames. Right.

All the good stuff. No burning gas, no – No pollution. Yeah, no pollution. So people were like, oh, that's not fun. Yeah, but when you drive a Tesla, like I have the Model S, the P100D, I think that's not fun So Yeah but when you drive A Tesla Like I have the Model S The P100D I think that's what it's called

When you drive it It's effortless Like everything just You just go where you want to go Like I'd like to be over there It's like a video game Yeah Like all of a sudden

You're over there Well you have to get used to it Because I've been in them And driven them And it's interesting How the body has to Acclimate to the acceleration Because you're used to That jolting It's like a rollerting that shifting you know first gear second gear third gear all that delay like

it's like ac versus dc you know normal cars are like ac a little gap between the power and when you get that you know it's it's the body has to get used to the i'm still not totally okay with not looking where you're going and just flipping it on autopilot, but I guess that's for the next generation. Well, that's fun on the highway, but I look where I'm going and I keep my hand on the wheel, but it is fun to shut 10% of your brain off and just let the car kind of handle the speed. The one that does it well. Does it well. Does it well. Yeah.

Well, like I said, I think you need a person who's as obsessed as Elon Musk is to make something like that. But I agree with you. If he wants to enjoy his life. Well, just live longer. Maybe have more ideas. Have more influence. Like just be – I'm only speaking that way. I just mean in a way of optimizing him, right?

Optimizing him for – because of his – he's so amazing that, okay, let's optimize your amazingness by making you be healthier, take care of yourself so you can be around longer and maybe do more great things. So again, I'm just speaking personally about when you try to look at optimization, like you're here, you only get so long, what are you doing and and are you really optimizing it by by you know burn by by taxing the system and not not getting all of it that out of it that you you know but i guess in a way it's kind of like unhappiness you know people use that as a workout so that's a little that makes you tired and you're get hungry and you know yeah there's always that well it's the choices you make right like sometimes you just get stuck in the momentum of the choice that you made

And it's very difficult to like take that pause and go, okay, am I doing this the right way? Maybe I need a reset Maybe we need to just take some time and really consider if this is making me happy And how many years I'm going to be able to do this and sustain it Yeah, well, that's a tricky thing, right? That's a self, you know, analyzing yourself and putting that up is, I think it's easier just to keep going the direction you're going. Just caffeinate and take some Adderall and keep hitting the gas. Go full speed.

How long have you been living in Hawaii? Well, my mom took me from San Francisco when I was six months old. Whoa. Wow. Pretty much. It was only a technicality that I wasn't born there, which actually worked against me. It's because when you're not born there, then you're not from there. Right.

They're like, oh, you're not born here. Right. And you're like, oh, yeah, but I've been here since I can remember. So let's just put it that way. Right. That's interesting. When my memory actually worked. They still hold it against you, the six months that you weren't oh yeah oh yeah we missed you bro oh

yeah six months where were you yeah you weren't you didn't come out of your mother here in this in the state but but yeah since i was a little kid i mean i my mom took me uh i was born in san francisco and she took me when i was a few months old i have a theory about people from hawaii there's a groundedness that they seem to exhibit that is universal. It's almost – you very rarely find completely frivolous, dopey people that live in Hawaii. They're not – I mean, I'm sure you find some people that are not that smart. But there's a groundedness that so many of them have because they're on a volcano in the middle of the ocean. And it's interesting that you talk about that because yesterday we were having a conversation about what is that, right?

And we have a couple terms. One of them is mana, which is the power from the land. Another one is aloha, which is kind of a spirit of how people act from Hawaii. But I believe it has a lot to do with islanders. I think islanders have that. But I believe it has a lot to do with islanders. I think islanders have that. And it has a lot to do with the ocean, being around the ocean, that the ocean's surrounding you.

And the ocean is the most conductive substance on Earth. So electrically, and there's all this thing. So you get influenced by this. And I think energetically, the nature is so powerful. I think it puts us into a – there's a certain kind of humility that you have when you're in that – you're next to a volcano that's 14,000 foot and you got a 2,000 foot waterfall and you got a giant wave. I mean, this is stuff that kind of goes, oh, yeah, we're just little ants. We're just little specks and we don't – It's humbling, but it's also inspiring. And energizing.

Yeah. Gives you power Right The mana Yeah I've always wondered Why people that live In beach communities They're so chill Like I've wondered

Is that because of Just the humility That you get When you're just Looking the ocean You're looking over it Have you ever seen that book No

It's called The Blue Mind The guy's pretty interesting And he does a study Of why we gravitate Towards being on the beach Why all the most's pretty interesting and he does a study of why we gravitate towards being on the beach why all the most expensive real estate is beachfront and that's something about when we stare at the ocean they did all these studies where the it just totally lights the brain up that our whole something about the horizon and about the ocean itself that that affects our whole well-being uh and and part of, we don't even know why, but we're just drawn like, why are we drawn there?

Why do we, you know, and it has an effect on our system. I wonder if that's because we evolved to be close to the water because that's where the bounty is, where you can get fish. Well, we evolved from the water. That's true. Do you ever follow that the the whole aquatic ape theory you ever yeah not i haven't really uh you know uh i haven't i haven't i haven't really studied that i i mean you know i i know that i know that when you're

around dolphins and when you're around whales um how, and like, you know, it's interesting today I was in the ocean and I felt something was around and I could feel it. I just knew something was around. And then it just five, 10 minutes later, a big sea lion kind of popped its head up and went, but I could feel before. But, but, you know, when you're around those animals that are in the ocean, you definitely feel a kindred spirit with them, unlike you do with land animals. You know, you don't really have, I mean, okay, maybe a wolf or dogs because we were connected with them for 30,000 years. We have that relationship. You feel something with a dog, but with the sea animals, like I say, when the dolphins come around and

you just feel some kind of, there's just some – and they've done some studies with dolphins, how they affect kids that have different disabilities and stuff and how it totally helps them. And so there's some healing ability and actually dolphins are capable of having a collective consciousness. And that's why they – when they get surrounded, the big ones don't just jump out of the net. Everybody stays together. But again, the aquatic ape that were from the ocean. I mean, listen, we call it the soup of life, right? The ocean is the reason why we were here and why we can be here. Because if it wasn't for that, it'd be Mars and it'd be hard to live there.

Yeah, there's something that attracts you to it. It's very strange. When you stand there, it's peaceful just to sit down at the beach and just stare out at the blue. It is. Yeah. Well, The Blue Mind is a great book. That's a beautiful book.

It talks about that and the science behind that and the effect it has on our system. But, you know, in a way, watching the ocean move is a little bit like watching a fire. You know how fire is mesmerizing. You have a fireplace and you just watch the flames move. Well, the ocean has that movement. And sometimes I'll go to the beach and I'll do a headstand and stand and look at the ocean upside down, which is crazy because now the ocean is the sky and the waves are moving opposite to what your brain's used to. So it's something I'm doing when I'm bored at the beach.

Do you think you could ever live in a city? I've stayed in a city for a little while before. I mean, I moved to Manhattan at one point. Did you really? Yeah, I lived in Manhattan when I for a little while before. I mean, I moved to Manhattan at one point. Did you really? Yeah, I lived in Manhattan when I was about 17 or 18. I had some friends that used to come to Hawaii. They lived in Manhattan and they invited me back for the summer. And I lived there for a summer.

And, you know, it was dangerous for me to be there. How's it dangerous? Because you're kind of more wild. You're a little more wild. You know, you're a little more like an animal And then you're like You're in confinement, you know And there's just not enough nature Like I'd go to Central Park

And swing off trees and stuff But that, you know That only did so much for me How old were you at the time? Like 17 or something like that But you felt like a real urge To be around nature Always

Yeah Always pulled to I mean, I would just go to Central Park all the time Wow, that's interesting something like that you felt like a real urge to be around nature always yeah always pulled pulled to i mean i would just go to central park all the time wow that's interesting yeah i was just i needed that and you know people don't realize when they live there but when you when you're in a place with giant cement buildings you know they're tall you're in fight or flight the whole time because the big yeah because you're you're threatened by these big masses that could fall over and hit you absolutely right and you intuitively you're living in that and then the noise and all of the all the people because i you know i i grew up

sitting in the back of the class right i i go to a restaurant i find a chair against the wall like i i go look for a chair and go where's you, you know, I'll sit in the corner. I want to see what's coming. I like to see what's coming. So, and you go, you know, you go to New York and there's just, you're bombarded from every single angle. Right. And so you're in fight or flight. You're just, you're constantly on guard to, you know, you don't know what's going to,

you know, I'll take my chances in the ocean. Yeah. I love visiting. Yeah. I love visiting. Yeah. I love visiting Manhattan. Yeah. But as far as living there, man, I just don't. And my friend Jeff lives there, and he's like, the energy of the city.

He always talks about the energy. It's amazing. I'm like, okay. Well, it's retail therapy, too. Yeah. Retail therapy. Retail mecca. It's why every woman in the world moves there.

Yeah, they own a shop. Shop. Shop. And then your friend goes, there's why every woman in the world moves there. Yeah, they want to shop. Shop. Shop. And then your friend goes, there's a lot of energy here. I think he meant like there's all the people. People are moving. They're doing things. It makes me want to do things.

Yeah, yeah. But I want to do things anyway. I don't need that. Yeah. Well, we weren't meant to live stacked on top of each other. That's not in our nature. That's not in our biology. Now, is there an abundance of everything?

Yeah, there's a lot of things that make it attractive right it's an attr there's an attr i mean there's beautiful women that make it attractive there's all the food you ever wanted to make it attractive you know there's all there's an abundance of stuff and there's always something you do you go to the theater you don't have to be self-motivated you don't be self-driven right you can just there's always three you know 10 parties and a bunch of things and speakers and science, just anything you can think of, there's every aspect of it. Right. So I think that has an attractiveness about it.

But in our essence, do we belong in these metropolises? They don't really have any in nature. So we wouldn't actually, that wouldn't be a place that, you know, and we can only handle so many people at once anyway. Like we can only have real intimate relationships with like 100 and, I don't know, 130 people or something crazy. Yeah, it's like 150. Yeah.

Yeah. What I'm fascinated by though is that these things exist everywhere and that cities exist in almost every single country there's a place like a manhattan or like in la where everybody's just jammed in together like what is it about people that makes us want to live like this that's an interesting thing that's an interesting question why are we attracted to that to that well the abundance you know that we're all and we're we're drawn to go where everybody wants to go A little bit like sheep You know like

We all go where everybody wants to go Opportunity I mean there's all these things that You know why does every Why does every city draw Every young person from the countryside Right because of Opportunity

Yeah And Excitement Possibility The possibilities My friend Michael Maus was on the show yesterday And he was telling me that he was choking He swallowed a piece of food and he got it stuck in his throat

And he went to a table in Manhattan He was in Manhattan And he was like I'm choking And he said this to this table of people And he said this woman just stared at him With no reaction Like didn't smile or anything And he coughed and the food came out

He goes I was choking to death And she said well you should take smaller bites didn't smile or anything, and he coughed and the food came out. He goes, I was choking to death. And she said, well, you should take smaller bites. Like just the harshness of New York. The harshness. It's like the value of a human being is so much less because there's so many of them. Yeah. That's a problem on Earth.

Yes. Right now our value for – and we become such a voyeur. We become such voyeurs of like, well, I'll just watch you die. Yeah. I'll get a video of it and post this stuff. Yeah. I mean, instead of like, wow, that guy needs help. He's hurting.

Let me help him. Right. Now it's like, wow. You know what I mean? You see – it's like wow let's see you know i mean we you see it's a it's a strange phenomenon you'll get more help when there's less people around than you will when there's all the people around yeah like they'll be a thousand people and they'll all just sit there and stare at a guy that's bleeding to death yeah where when there's two people there one of

the people will tourniquet the guy's leg right right right like if you met if you saw someone in the woods fall and break their leg and it was just you two, you'd feel totally connected to that person. Whereas if you saw someone, there's 100 people around, the guy falls or gets hit by a car, you're like, well, that ain't my problem. That ain't my problem. Yeah. And everybody goes, that's not my problem.

Diffusion. Yeah. Diffusion of responsibility. Yeah. It happens in large groups of people. You feel like somebody's going to handle this. And no one does. Yeah.

No one does. Yeah. There was a video that I watched recently of this guy there was uh i don't know what was happening but it was outside at night some sort of a nightclub sort of a situation this woman hit this guy and this guy knocked out this one woman and then another girl came out of me knocked her out too and the guy's filming it someone's filming it and they're not doing anything about it no one's no one's tackling this guy no one's grabbing the guy runs away successfully and then the lapd put a thing out looking for this guy i'm like how the fuck does the guy with

the camera live with himself how did you just film exactly this guy punched two women exactly yeah exactly unless you're a woman too and you're like i don't want this guy fucking me up too i don't know well you just hit him with a brick then i mean you know whatever i mean just saying just you know drive your car drive your car on them i'm just what you know, whatever. I mean, just saying, just, you know, drive your car on them. I'm just – you know. But it is strange how we lose our humanity in these giant numbers. Well, and we're doing it more too now just with all of the – there's a bunch of factors that are playing into that, right? Into us kind of separating ourselves from the person next door. They're right there, but we're over here.

We're on our device looking down, and they're right next to us. And it's almost like we think that that's an invisible screen. Yeah. There's also a thing about Hawaii that I've always found interesting. So you kind of know everybody. So you can't be an asshole. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah.

Accountability. Accountability. Accountability, yes. You're going to see them at the store in five minutes. So either you work it out and you agree that you don't like each other, and it's just like an accepted thing, or you work it out and you get through it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I love that about small towns, too. Small towns have the same thing. But the thing about an island, it's a small town with an ocean around it. Yeah. So there's really nowhere to go. And live on kawaii yeah i grew up on kawaii how many people live there about 60 something now 65 000 or something that's hilarious yeah that's less than the big island which is pretty yeah but it's big though yeah but it's big giant and giant is like a hundred something right yeah yeah i mean I lived in Maui for a while as well, but I grew up on Kauai.

Kauai is my, you know, that's got my heart. It owns my heart. So gorgeous there. Gorgeous. And then you've got Honolulu, which might as well be Chicago or something. Absolutely. It's like city problems. Absolutely.

They have real city problems. Well, and heavy military. So they have a huge military. And the military influences a city. Sure. Like any city that has a military next to it, there's an effect that the military has on the city. Sure. And Honolulu has that.

Honolulu is connected to the military because it's got Pearl Harbor and all of that stuff. And then a million people, which is insane. Insane. A million people. Well, it's a gathering place honolulu means the gathering place so it's like where everybody goes to you know that's where the state capital is that's our whole that's our that's waikiki that's you know why did that one place become so populated it's i said i don't know why i it's it's you know i think it has to

do with if you look at most places that cities have been created, it's usually some geographical design, some shape, like a good harbor. And obviously Honolulu is an incredible harbor. So great harbor, great protection. So that probably has a lot to do with the fact that it was developed like it was is because of the nature of it. with the fact that it was developed like it was is because of the nature of it. And it was, you know, I used to say it like if you went to Rio de Janeiro and no one was there and you showed up one day with a boat and no one had built anything, it would be amazing. If you showed up in Manhattan and you went up the Hudson

and you pulled up onto that island, you'd be like, wow, this place is amazing. So most of these places, you know, if you're in Paris and you went in the Seine, went around it, you'd be like, wow, this. So most of the places where cities have been developed are amazing geographical locations. And then they, out of necessity, they were easy to get to with boat, you know, that has a big factor to it.'s always some sort of you know strategic there's something to a stress you know being a strategic part uh location as well but yeah i don't know why honolulu other than great for mooring and harbors and protected real protected all that pearl harbor stuff is very protected and so that made it very easy to develop if you didn't live there what do you

think you'd live i'd be another planet you think you'd live in the mountains well i love alaska you know but i i don't think i i honestly you know uh both gabby and i have been uh splitting the years for since we met and i realized that i'm i'm nomadic like i'm or i'm that i really like like the animals i like to move in a season it feels more natural actually and i we i kind of with my daughters we kind of influence them that way but i don't want to be anywhere all the time that's what i really realize i realize that i'm not good that i just there's well you'll get caught up in a domestic with your that i'm not good that i just there's well you'll get caught up in a domestic with your neighbor and you'll just there just there's something about

being in one location all year round and it feels more natural to move according to the seasons right like hey it's summertime energize you go to you know we come to california in the summer the surf is down in hawaii in the in the summertime that's when the waves are flat so there's they don't i don't have the sea to which means i would shift into other land stuff it brings a whole set of opportunities it's like why would we go north i mean why would we go uh you know in north in the summer because it'd be a more abundant but in the winter you wouldn't go because it'd be too harsh so it's a little bit like that mentality where you move more like if you're hunting and gathering you'd definitely be moving according to the seasons like you go where the fruit was when the fruit was you know good and you'd go where the hunting was great when the hunting was good and all of those things and that feels natural for

me to just be you know to be back and forth but so you do like six months in each place is that what you do yeah so you go Malibu and you go? Yeah, Kauai. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Well, and then you get to see both things too. Both things.

And open your mind. Yeah. Open your mind. Open your mind. And energetically, Malibu is very powerful. Like where we are, you know, it's like Indian mountains and the mountains meet the sea. And there's some, you know, people don't realize how abundant that sea life is too. They always call Malibu. They have like a preconceived idea about what malibu is but malibu

is has has a you know malibu means gateway to the sea and chugash that's a that's an indian word malibu is the gate which is a in a way is the valley that opened from the plains where the buffalo were to the fishing in the in the in the ocean so there's there's some you know something to that place that that we feel comfortable and if you're going to be here for us it's a i can still be in the ocean i can still have that nature part but then i can run into you know la and try to expand my brain a little bit yeah it is really a weird spot right like malibu has got a weird combination of really rich people that are completely detached and they're on pills and they're like that pch is a terrifying place to drive one of the most

dangerous so many fucking drunk driving accidents and it's windy yeah and you have the ocean so good houses on it and a cliff on the other side narrow winding and bad drivers yeah just all our drivers in america are terrible well it's, there's something about that range too. There's so many bars and restaurants where people drink. There is. Yeah. There is. That's a wickedly dangerous road.

Well, there's detached people. And then I've had friends that had their kids go to Malibu High and they're like, Jesus Christ, everyone's doing drugs. It's all fucked up. Yeah. And the children of these rich people are often neglected raised by their nannies oh yeah parents aren't home and they're just so you have that contrasted by some of the coolest people ever and so you and you have some of the people that don't want to live

in town that work in the industry highly successful that want nature they want nature and they want to be in there and they'll they're willing to drive that coast highway every day and go to work in town just to have the balance of being in the sanctuary so you know it's it's it's what we always say bright light dark shadow i mean it's the nature of that it's the it's what you get with it you know with the with the greatness you get is the you know the destruction it attracts weirdos yeah it does yeah there's so many strange, eclectic people. Eclectic. Yeah. Which kind of makes it, but it makes it great too.

Like if you're for the good group, you got guys, you know, you go to the store and you got guys that are, you know, that lived in Malibu for their whole life since they were kids. They don't, you know, they live up one of the canyons, and they're totally grounded. And then you got right next to them some giant mansion with, like you said, kids that are neglected. Yeah. But there's some good ocean there, and there's some good mountains. So for mountain bikes and ocean activities, it's pretty – the land stuff's always going to be tricky with the humans. You get the humans. They're on land. We rented a place on the water for like three months when we were getting our kitchen done.

And it was crazy. You just sit there, wake up, eat breakfast. You're on the water. Yeah. And the place we were at, the water would literally come to the edge of the house. So it looks like you're sitting on the water. It's like being on a boat. And you're watching sea otters and all this wildlife and birds yeah yeah yeah amazing yeah you don't

want to own one of those houses but they're nice to stay in well if you own it you really don't own it for long no not in this day and age no especially if we get it we never know we're gonna get a big wave so i'm always gun shy about being on the water you know living on the water i think i when i was a kid we had to evacuate and so i'm always uh for giant surf just huge huge surf so we had to leave our house in our house a bunch of houses got pushed across the road in 1969 jesus christ yeah so i've always been i think i've had a thing in the back of my head like and one besides highly expensive but just living on the beach. It's like, no, I'll go to the beach.

I'll be at the beach all day. But then I want to be away. Like, I want to go home and be away. Right. And not have sand in my bed and not have salt on my TV and, you know, not have like. Everything gets corroded. Corroded. Well, you have to build a boat.

Yeah. You should, if you build a house there, just pretend it's a boat and that you don't have to worry about sinking. Maybe. It might sink. It might sink. Slowly. How far away do you live from the water? I'm about a mile as a crow flies.

But I'm up a hill, so I overlook the ocean and I can see. And then I don't have any neighbors. I have only one neighbor on the front and back, and then both sides, no neighbors. So I've always liked being on hills and being back. It just seems that's where I end up. It's also views. I think views are really good for your brain. Good for your brain.

To be up and let everything fall below, good for the brain. Soothing on the mind. What is this physical training company that you're doing you're doing something uh xpt yeah what is that xpt is uh i would describe it as a uh kind of a it's a lifestyle program that evolved out of what how i we live like what we what we do and so we started a an experiential thing where people can come for like two and a half days and go through this you know get exposed to speakers and they do heat nice and we do pool training and breath work and mobility conferences and stuff they're uh exposed to speakers like

what do you mean well i'll invite you know i would invite you to come and speak for an hour or i'd i'd invite paul check or we'd have somebody speak on longevity or somebody speak on, you know, just have, during the experience, we'll have a couple of speakers talk on, you know, nutrition, fitness, wellness, career, whatever, just as something, as another piece of the element. And then, and like I said, we have pool training and then we and we've been certifying trainers now to kind of help people go through the the process as well and so it's you know it's it's really about rest and recovery and breathing it's more based on on that part it's not just another training thing of like hey how we you know how we can hammer you i mean i think

that's overplayed i think the the ways we can train and how we're training is really overplayed. I think we're not creating enough things that nurture the system, you know, and really look at trying to support people in their already, you know, hammering life. They're already just beating themselves down. It's like, let's get off the red eye and then we'll go to the gym and we'll hammer ourselves there and then we'll stay up all day. And, you know, and I think they need some support. So breath work is a big part of it. Knowing how to move correctly, I think that's a big part of it because plenty of people hurt themselves, especially in the gym, without, you know, without some knowledge of movement and form.

And then I have a pool training system i developed which is yeah gabby was telling me about that sounds crazy yeah that's the most proprietary thing i think we have is um it's a marriage between the gym and the in the pool because i despise swimming um that's the yeah that's hilarious well i i no i do i just want you if you said go do laps in the pool i'd be like shamu and i'd get the floppy fin. Really? Oh, yeah. That's crazy, but you're a fucking surfer.

No, but I'm saying, but if you said, hey, we're going to take these masks and these fins and we're going to swim this coastline where the waves are breaking on the rocks and we're going to go for five miles, I'm in like I but if you said hey go down there and and and and wear some swim goggles where you can't even see and swim in some murky water where you don't know what's in it and we're going to swim a mile down there and you're going to do that every day that the I'd rather step on a you know rusty nail than do that I mean it's like that's so because of my my disdain for swimming that kind of swimming I mean I if there's it's if it's in the surf in the waves that's a different that's a different game that's a whole different but you don't want to do laps in the pool you'd kill me you know i'm gonna die i just i would rather yeah i just i'd rather hit my hand with that's so weird i would think you would just enjoy moving in the water

but i do with some dumbbells oh okay So carrying a dumbbell and jumping with dumbbells. Why did you start XPT? What was the motivation? Because you're obviously into doing this stuff yourself, but why create a foundation or organization? Well, the reason why we started it was because an opportunity to expose this stuff and share it with more people. We were doing it ourselves naturally, and then we'd have friends come and they were like, this stuff's awesome. And then can I invite my friend?

And then we were, we realized that, that if we really wanted to expose it to more people and share it, we were going to, it was going to be a limitation if everybody had to come to my house. Do you have like a website and everything? Yeah. What does XPT stand for?

XPT, uh, XPT, uh, life.com and XPT stands for? XPTlife.com. And XPT stands for, well, my concept is exploration and performance training. Ah, there it is. High performance fuels a limitless life.

Dumbbells in the pool. There it is. Oh, yeah. So this is all your idea that dumbbells in the pool? I need to. Yeah, you have to come. Well, I'm just in the process. That's my boy, Kyle.

Kyle Kingsbury. Oh, yeah yeah i love that guy yeah the uh well i have some beautiful guys come like i'll give you a great thing that you'd appreciate is uh i have this whole well first of all there's a bunch of things that happen in the water right which one of the things that happens is when you're underwater the compression of the water allows the blood to flow through your lymphatic system which normally takes about a 24-hour period it happens in one hour so imagine compression tights like you know if you wear compression it really helps the blood flow right well this is the ultimate compression the water is right so then you deal with the psychology so it's good for fighters like i i i fighters because of the psychology of what we can do, because you deal a lot with stress. So we're able to implement stress in a very controlled environment.

And then, and then, and then like, for example, and Grant Hill at one point in his career, but I have a friend, Joakim Noah, who's a basketball player. And we were doing these, we're doing these in the water. We're doing these dunking drills last summer. So I trained with him and did a bunch of stuff because you can do a lot of highly explosive, heavy loaded movement with protection because now you don't have to worry about momentum, which is what's going to pull your shoulder out. It's going to throw your hip. It's going to hurt your knee where I could take a basketball player and I can run him

through thousands of jumps, thousands, which at the end of, if I did that on land, he would be broken. He's already jumping too much in his season. He doesn't need to jump more, right? So I could load him up and make him do these dynamic movements, but now he's protected because we've taken gravity out. So it's like saying, hey, we get to go trade in outer space, but it's in my backyard. Now, what kind of results have these athletes been experiencing? Well, so Joakim in his career, and I don't know how many years he's been in the NBA, he came back after doing this dunking job, just using this as an example, and had the most dunks per minute that he's had in his entire career.

Whoa. He was like dunking on, it was slamming on everybody i mean it helps that he's seven feet tall but the fact is is that he he he noticed now uh uh you know grant hill was talking about he gained three inches in the last year of his career after playing in the nba for 20 years all of a sudden he's jumping three inches higher like yeah yeah so i mean we're getting where i'm that's the kind of tangible stuff that i'm that i that i'm getting just that there's a lot more things. A lot of it has to do with breath because in the water, it's all controlled breathing patterns. So everything is controlled because you can't breathe in until you get to the top.

So if you're doing a drill where you're jumping, and most of the things we do are leg-driven, swimming is mostly arms. Part of the reason why people only use their arms is because you use five times the oxygen with your legs as you do with your arms so the legs are very inefficient for swimming but yet they create a lot of load on your heart which that can boost your breath holding and so there's a bunch of other other uh things that happen but a lot of it is just that environment is very protective so for recovery too for like when somebody's got a hurt knee hurt hip hurt ankle you can go in there and start moving dynamically early before you would ever do it on land and be protected so there's a bunch of you know and then we could just ratchet it up i can make you know if i i truly believe if you gave if you said you know i'll get you phelps is

going to come to your house and you're going to have Phelps for three months. I could make Phelps faster. Yeah. What is this here? This is, this is, this, so I'm, he's doing a dunking drill and he's using a medicine ball, but he's having to jump out of three feet of water. Right. So when he gets on land, when he gets on land, it's like, it's like a, he gets, it's like a whole other game. Yeah, I would imagine.

A whole nother game now did you invent this protocol this whole thing of jumping and doing in the water what what motivated you well i came the original concept came out of the a drill not a drill a thing we used to do in the summer when we were kids that's a hawaiian kind of waterman drill where you run on the bottom with stones so i've seen that bj penn does that stuff yeah so youman drill where you run on the bottom with stones. I've seen that. BJ Penn does that stuff. Yeah. So you get a stone.

You run along the bottom. Then you put it down. Then your friend swims along the surface. And then when you go up, he swims down and grabs it. And then he goes along as far as he can. And you swim. And you just go back and forth until neither one of you can do it. So it was based kind of on that concept.

But I wanted to expand that because that's kind of limiting. You just swim and you run. And you, but I wanted to expand that because that's kind of limiting. You just swim and you run and you can't isolate movements and you're not working like you can with dumbbells. So now I shift dumbbells into the water and I have all different weights. So depending on your skill level, you know, everything we do, and that's one thing about everything that I'm involved in is, is it usually has to have a spec. It has to be able to be, you know, for everybody to do it, it has to be old people and kids to,

to, in my mind that it's not viable unless it's, it, you can appeal to everybody that you need. You need to, a kid needs to be able to do it. An old person to be able to really be valid, to really have legitimacy.

You know, it's like, okay, the coffee, it has to be able to do it an old person to be able to really be valid to really have legitimacy you know it's like okay the coffee it has to be there has to be things that the kids can can have that creamer old people can have it it's got to be good it can't just be specialized i think the specialization of some of this stuff is creates uh the lack of validity i don't think that that it's valid if it's specialized and so i could take a little kid like my daughter does a bunch of the pool training stuff right i have an older older guys that come and do a bunch of the pool training stuff you know i got pat riley comes in there and he trains in the summertime with us and stuff yeah yeah so we get a really broad spectrum of people and that and that confirms to me that it's really legitimate right because then it's like no this is real like the kids can do it the old people can do it the top guys can do it the bottom guys can do it everybody can do it

that you know that that's something that's that's i just think that that's the you know what what what is real so how many years have you been doing this um xpt well i mean the pool training i've been i developed over the last Probably 10 to 12 years About 12 years now In the pool And you've evolved it So you started off With a couple ideas

Well I I had like a Velcro weight jacket Where you Velcro Like a Yeah And jump in the deep end It was a little scary

Can't get the jacket off And how can you get up So that wasn't That wasn't Too sketchy That wasn't viable That was So then we moved to dumbbells Where you can drop them and right but we you know there's probably

20 exercises that we have how much weight are you using it depends sometimes we're doing we have a move called the gorilla where we're using you know 60 to 70 70 pound dumbbells where you're doing a curl press jump so you and you're jumping on the slope so your curl pressing and jumping with with uh with you know 60 70 pound dumbbells depending on your size we're swimming with 50 pounds 60 pound dumbbells we're jumping off the bottom with 15 pound dumbbells it depends on the exercise so it all depends on the person's skill what the drill is but we i have a whole i have all the weights next to the pool so we have everything from 70s to to five pound wow i love that idea of the jump press like doing some sort of a oh yeah it's all you'd love it it's crazy i call it the gorilla curl so it's a squat curl press jump and then

when you come out of the water you just let the weights drop and then the water catches them you could never do that at land and how deep your shoulder out of the water, you just let the weights drop. And then the water catches them. You could never do that on land. And how deep are you doing? Rip your shoulder out. Right, right. How deep are you doing this in the water? Well, you vary on your height. So I have about an 11-foot deep end.

And then I have a slope so you can choose every depth all the way. And then I have what you saw in that last video. It's about a 3 1⁄2-foot shallow end. So this is the first pool. I'm trying to build a couple i'm trying to build one in hawaii right now that's that's gonna evolve from what i learned from this pool so this pool i just kind of built it with you know with the hopes of designing a program and then out of it came all the all this stuff what are you going to alter um i'm going to create multiple depths so i'm going to do like an area that has 12 foot,

then we're going to shift back two feet and have a 10 foot and then another flat area of eight foot and then another flat area, six foot. And then I have the magic width is about somewhere between 35 to 40 feet wide. And that's like, if you're trying to swim a heavy dumbbell, you know, we do a lot of individual limb stuff so that you isolate each limb. So we'll do pistol squats and Russian lunge squats and a bunch of other – and movements that you can – you'd be very vulnerable if you did that in the gym. Chances are you could hurt yourself. But because you have that stability in that environment, it totally supports you. So you can be and go into ranges of motion that you don't have. Like, you know, you might not be able to go sink all the

way down into a deep lunge on one leg and press out with dumbbells in your hand on land, but in the water, you can. And the water actually makes it lighter, so you have to boost the weight and stuff. So there's a bunch of great stuff that comes out of it. That sounds very attractive to people that have had injuries. Beautiful. But the irony is it's a little bit like what comes out of rehab where you actually get better performance too. Like a lot of rehab exercises become performance driving exercises. It's like, hey, don't do that shit only

when you get hurt right start doing that and get strong that way so then you maybe you won't get hurt yes yeah you know so it comes that way too it goes both directions and do you have workouts that people can follow online if someone goes to the xbt life is xbt life is that what it is xbt life website yeah and we're actually the thing that we have the thing we have right now that's probably the most uh the most uh kind of prevalent one the thing that's happening as soon as we have a breathing app coming out so we have a breathing app that has almost every different modality of breath work and so there's some pretty cool stuff in there where you can go choose hey before i go to sleep or before my workout after my workout you know

during my thing so we have a bunch of we have a pretty cool breathing app uh that that we're working on as well so you ever talked to wim hof i know him do you know him absolutely yeah oh yeah he doesn't give a fuck if you breathe out of your nose your mouth he's like just breathe man i know i know he doesn't get a. He's so crazy. I love that guy. He's comedy. No, I've had a few. Wim and I have had a few. We've had a few experiences. Let's just put it that way.

But we've had him at a couple of experiences, and I've done some stuff with Wim. I've known Wim for, I don't know, like four or five years now, maybe a little longer. So he'll keep coming. Usually when he was in town, I think the last time maybe when you when you saw him he he came he comes to visit so i i get him i if i usually when i go with whim i usually translate for him when he goes to one of his classes i'm usually like trying to in case people don't understand no i know but i'm just saying sometimes i'll be with somebody they'll be like what do you say i'll be like what he means is take a deep breath yeah he's such a character he is a character the guy went to fucking the top of everest barefoot oh yeah like what oh yeah i almost lost his toes too yeah like what yeah yeah no he goes

yeah yeah well he's he is his art actually uh is uh tumo is is a is a derivative of tumo, and I'm not sure if you know what tumo is, but tumo is a Himalayan breathing technique that the monks have where they have this one thing where they dry sheets. So they have this thing, a ceremony where they go at night in the Himalayas when it's frozen,

it's snow, and the guy sits there and they put wet sheets wet blankets on them and they breathe and get their bodies so hot that they dry the blankets and then the guy that can dry the most blankets at the end of the night is the is like the guy you know but it's a yeah yeah and it's called tumo and it's a uh you can go online and look it up but tumo is a is a is a himalayan breathing technique that was never exposed to Westerners until just as of recently. But Wim's work is a derivative of tummo.

But nose breathing, it's all about nose breathing. It's all about nose breathing. And when you understand the science of it. But he's right about getting people to just breathe because people are not breathing then um we just had in fact we had another uh belissa what's her i want to say uh it's a russian name but she has a great book she trains fire fire and police and military um breathing we just had her at we did an xpt in miami about a week, two weeks ago. And she came as a guest speaker and was working on really trying to create more volume. And then a lot of people's rib cages aren't moving.

And so they have a whole, you know, there's ways to try to increase your movement of your rib cage. Your rib cage should actually open. Like you can take a tape and measure your ribcage when you're fully exhaled and then when you inhale it should expand like you know three inches or more for you to be really optimally breathing and a lot of people i mean part of it has to do with the whole six-pack abs and what's aesthetically pleasing but meanwhile when you have a real nice six set of six-pack abs you're you don't you're not able to diaphragmatically breathe. You're not able to use your diaphragm.

You're not using your diaphragm when you have that. Yeah, because the tightness isn't allowing the diaphragm to push down. The diaphragm and the pelvic floor actually squeeze your organs together. And that is actually massaging the organs, which influences your digestion and everything. And it deals with a bunch of acid reflex and a bunch of other things. But when the abs are so tight that the stomach can't expand, the organs can't push this belly out, then you have a limitation in your brain. And then the ribs aren't moving. I mean, it's just.

But guys are going to hear this and go, good, I'm stay fat i don't need a six-pack well but but no yeah but but i actually if you're really using your lungs you you can you'll you'll strengthen your core in a way that you'll get core you could have six-pack abs and not have core stability like so you know i mean and you know this i mean when you look at a lot of not every single great fighter is just ripped no some of the best ones ever not ripped at all like fedor exactly so let's talk about that first for a example of you know that aesthetic isn't always function right right and oh and of course we you know the mind is always ahead of everything i don't care what the car looks like if the got no motor doesn't do anything so it's the body only goes where the brain tells it but the

fact is is that that you see some of the best athletes when you look at certain athletes you're not like they're not the physical specimens that you've ever seen you're like that that guy is the most ripped and shredded a lot of times those guys get knocked out you know you see the guy come in and you just go this guy's gonna kill this guy and then he just gets you know annihilated by the guy that looks maybe not quite sure as hard right right part of his genetics max holloway's perfect example hawaiian guy yeah he's not like shredded i mean he's strong obviously but he looks more like a swimmer yeah yeah when you you might find that his breathing yeah he might he might have better air volume.

Because at the end of the day, a lot of it's about oxygen. Cardio. Yeah. Ben Max's cardio is off the charts. Exactly. So he's getting more movement out of there. I mean, you know, again, we've created these, you know, aesthetic things in our culture, like, oh, six-pack abs is a sign of this and da-da-da.

But when you look at real breath work and how the diaphragm works and how the ribs expand you realize it's like we're none of us are really doing it right you know and you can actually create more volume you know you said you like cordyceps mushrooms yes well those are actually a vasodilator those help help you absorb oxygen you those can up your vo2 max right there's only a couple things that you can, how to increase your VO2 max, but cordyceps is one of them. Beets is another one. You can create more volume by expanding your lungs.

So by opening the rib cage and creating more room, that can promote your VO2 max. Now, when people are hearing this and they're hearing breath work, folks who have never done anything like that, they really don't understand what you're saying. Like, what do you mean by breath work breathwork like give us an example of like a protocol well i mean a real simple i mean they do it in pranayama they have it in apnea there's a thing called holotropic but breathwork really is is when you isolate the breathing system and and

you know the simplest way and that's why whim says, I don't give a shit how you breathe. Just breathe, motherfucker. That's right. Breathe. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, like we'll do a breath routine and we'll sit somebody down and we'll say, okay, breathe like you're running. Breathe like you're running. And we'll tell the guy, breathe like he's running.

And they'll go, I go, that's a slow run, buddy. Like breathe like you're running. Like, you know, like any like any time, any, any movement in any air in and out is going to, is a form of breath work. Right. And especially when you isolate the system and you're not doing it because of an activity. The fact is that when you use that system and you work it and you're not detracting from it by doing an exercise, if you're doing the assault bike, where your arms are working and your legs are working, so all the oxygen that you're absorbing is going into your arms and legs. When you're isolated and you just do the breathing alone, now the oxygen is going into that system

and that system is going to develop and get better. Then when you do your assault bike, after you develop that system. So we'll isolate breath work and we'll just do it alone. Whether we're doing breath holds, we're doing some kind of apnea breath work, which is, we can do a pattern where you're doing like, you hold for 30 seconds and then you breathe in for 15 and then you breathe out for 15, then you hold again. Then you go in and out and hold, in and out and hold.

That's one pattern another pattern is in hold out hold in hold out hold in hold out hold like you know again those are there's you know and then there's pranayama apnea holotropic there's just some where you're oxygenating the system where you know like whims would be where you just get that rhythm going and do that for five minutes and people go oh my i feel lighted and i go yeah because you haven't had oxygen like that in your head you haven't had oxygen in your system like that right so again conscious bringing consciousness to your breath we're not just walking along in life like not thinking about breathing that's the beginning of breath work just awareness of hey i need to you know i just need to breathe in and out just

stay conscious yeah and that's a big one with martial arts you see in jujitsu with beginners when they first start sparring for the first time they panic and they have shallow breath and you got to tell us okay stop right now just breathe oh yeah just breathe oh yeah we'll fight or flight yeah fight or flight but it's interesting how they can't get a deep breath yeah they they hyperventilate yeah well you will put somebody in the ice for the first time that hasn't done it oh yeah that's. That's the craziest. You want to see it? That's an instantaneous. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can't breathe. Oh, yeah. But you eventually learn.

Well, the system, the system turned, that's actually an involuntary response to get out. Right. You have the option, so you should exercise that option. Well, that's an involuntary response. That's your subconscious mind protecting the organism.

Like, hey, your body intuitively knows this is a dangerous environment. Get out. And so that reaction is to get you to get out. When you make a conscious effort to not leave that environment, then the body goes, oh, okay, you're not going to get out. Okay, well, now I'll organize. I'll bring the blood to the organs. I'll adjust everything. I'll boost your hormones.

And then pretty soon you don't get that response anymore once you do it on a regular basis the body just goes oh we're here we are again back to that ice thing bring the body you know boost the hormones bring all the blood and the organs you know that so but that that's that's a similar thing to what you're talking about in jiu-jitsu where people are the stress on the system they're're stressed, and so they're involuntarily, and that's fight or flight. One thing you can really do to calm a kid down is the way you get yourself into parasympathetic where you bring your thing down

is when you extend your breath for seven seconds on the inhale and the exhale. That'll bring everything down. If you want to calm down or your little kids just all, and you get them to just breathe in for seven seconds yeah and i tell people think about a sigh my youngest daughter when she would get upset she would do that she would and i'd try like you gotta breathe you gotta breathe calm down seven seconds is a magic number if they if you can extend the breath for seven seconds and the body goes into parasympathetic and totally, that's what you do to like go to sleep at night, like if you're having a hard time.

So there's a bunch of stuff to learn about the breath, which is amazing. I think the reason why the breath has always been so important to me is just because of the ocean. Because, you know, growing up when you almost drown, you know, a thousand times, air is important. You just get to appreciate like there's none down there and it's all up there. And so be cool down there. So when you see you can get back up. Well, I learned breath work because of Hicks and Gracie. I'm watching Hicks and Gracie practice yoga.

He's a friend. Oh, you know Hicks? You know he does that. What is that called? That stomach thing. What is that stomach thing called? Well,'s the uh pranayama yes yeah but there's a name for it yeah where you twist the yeah yeah you're you really sucks his organs yeah and his son can do it amazingly crone can do it amazingly yeah yeah it's super good for you well that for the organs yeah and that the ability to control your breath like that is so critical when you're sparring.

So critical to get oxygen in these long training sessions. Well, for your life. Yeah. For your life. Anytime you're in the stress, if you can control your breath, that controls your heart rate. Yeah. Do you ever do 30 seconds in, 30 seconds out? Do you ever do that?

Yeah. Just slow, deep breaths in, slow, deep breaths out. That's an amazing exercise. Yeah. Because it's difficult to maintain. Well, that's the extension of that parasy deep breaths out. That's an amazing exercise. Well, that's the extension of that parasympathetic. That's bringing it. Seven is just the minimum amount. But whenever you go into any of those long extended stuff and then those breath holds,

anytime you hold the breath, then you get that CO2 level. And that's what gives you the angst. What's interesting because Wim's done some record-breaking stuff and you have that free diving stuff where where they scrub oxygen you know where they hyperventilate and scrub the co2 and get that real low but you have to be careful about shallow water blackout so we don't really practice any of that stuff we do more like assault bike jump in the pool and see how long you can hold your breath and then it's and then and then you know five ten ten seconds is like that's big time 15 seconds you're like wow that was amazing at maximum heart rate how long can you hold your heart i mean how long can you hold your breath

that's some that's a challenge so you keep an assault bike right next to the pool yeah yeah just for punishment roll you roll it into the oh yeah yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah wow yeah wow god there's always another you know twist to the pretzel now what are the i mean because Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. God, man. There's always another, you know, twist to the pretzel. Now, what other, I mean, because of your hip, do you have any limitations on other kind of stuff that you can do? I would imagine running would be a real problem. Yeah. I like deep, deep texture running.

So, soft sand because of the foot and the articulation of the feet and not shooting, not wearing shoes. Um, so I'll do beach, I'll do sand running. And like, if I'm in the snow, like Alaska or something like that,

but I love barefoot and deep stuff. I don't like running on hard ground. I just, first of all, as soon as you're, you know, if you're two 15 or two, you know,

whatever, anything over 200 pounds, I mean, you shouldn't be running more than a couple of miles a week. If you're over a buck 20, I mean, it's just's just it's a really oh yeah it's so hard on your system on the hard ground absolutely that stuff is just pounding you yeah i mean it's one thing to go in a soft something that has absorption you know like if you're running in the sand or you're running or you're running in the snow or you're running in some deep, thick grass or something that's got absorption.

But, yeah, you go run. You're 180, 200 pounds and you're running. You just pound. Everything's just seven times your body weight on the download. And then you're wearing a shoe that's kind of deceiving you. It's a little bit like a sunglass. You think it's blocking the light, but it's a bad light in you know you think it's a block in the absorption but you just

get pounded I mean you're and your feet are you know I mean barefoot is so important grounding so important I mean these are these are things but I have a new I have a cool bike that I just somebody just gave me recently called a stand-up bike which the company called elliptical but it's a standing bike it's positioned so for standing alone and so the posture is unbelievable

and you want to grind on a hill i mean you don't need running and then you have zero impact it's like you know and so i think running's hard i mean i understand the high of running and but you know if you want to you want a real for me real running is barefoot in some soft sand i had this one beach in hawaii that i run on that that that's a little bit like quicksand probably you'll sink in like mid you know lower lower lower calf like you know you'll sink in a foot into it oh wow and you don't need to go far like you don't need to go and you know what taro patches no so i grew up uh i grew up farming like around on a pig farm and then with taro patches and fishing and so i kind of grew up in

a but there's a taro a taro patch is a is a rice patty pretty much mud right and so you we grew up working in that stuff and walking and carrying buckets and being in that mud the sloshing the mud like a foot deep mud. But what I'm saying is an environment like that where you have to pull your foot out and then sink in where it's absorbing the impact. I mean, that's where work, you know, I always question the damage versus the work, right? Like the pounding that you, and most, I mean, you know, once you're a certain size, the pounding that you get, I think you can get all the cardio you want.

Do jump rope. Jump rope is great. You're landing on your toe. You're doing the thing about when you're running, inevitably, people go to heel striking. They're landing on their heels because they have a shoe, so they think they're getting protected because they're landing on something kind of soft, but it's still sending that impact up your spine. And inevitably, anything you do and you come back and your back hurts i have to question like is that optimum right you know and that wasn't deadlift either it was you know right right yeah but you what about your friend the muay thai fighter well he's but he runs he runs like on the very super short short step

balls of his feet like like and i would i wouldn't, I would call it more like a, I don't even know how to describe the pace, but it's a slow, a slow pace that you're landing on the toes the whole time. So it's not like a run, you know, a hard run where you're pounding. So. So he's probably like doing like 10 minute miles or something like that? I don't know. I don't even know what his range is.

You'd have to ask Mr. Tom Jones. Do you think that's okay? Well, I think running off your toe is great. Yeah. But the problem is the shoes, the running shoes. Who does it? Right. Who does it?

I do. I run with minimalist shoes. Yeah. And I only run hills. But it's a standing bike. That is ridiculous. I wouldn't be caught dead in that thing. Well, that's the elliptical.

They have a new one that's just a pedal. I'm just kidding. It looks awesome. No, but you know why the guy made that? Because the guy was a runner and couldn't run anymore, got injured. And then he started to bike and he said, biking's not running. And so then he developed that thing because it simulates running without the impact. Right.

Like I said, that's why I like the pool. And I think, too, it's, if you think about doing things forever, we're talking about doing things forever, right? So we're talking about doing things forever. So how are we going to do them so we can do them forever? No impact. Well, so reducing impact. And if you actually started doing that initially, then you might not have to worry about trying to recover from all that stuff that you so it's like we don't want to train in a way that we're going to have to change our training to try to make up because all the damage we've done let's try to avoid the damage from the beginning i'm it's already too late for me i got seven you know i got six broken ankles jesus i got broken arches do that again What the hell did you just do? Your ankle has a golf ball growing out of it.

Well, it's been broke six or seven times. Broke the arch. Broke all the metatarsals. Just from surfing? All different. Motorbike, surfing, snowboarding. How did you mess up your hip? Probably because I'm walking on a broken ankle for all those years.

Because each time I broke it, I had five or six different breaks. And then I would keep going. So I would keep walking on it. But that means I had to carry the load on my right hip, so I think I just wore the cartilage out from offsetting and carrying the load of the broken leg. Jesus. So that was – but so, I mean, it's – So it wasn't like one injury where you hurt your hip. It was just slow.

No, I just wore it out. I said I lived a couple lives with that one. That was only a one-life hip, and I had three lives in it. What is it like having a fake hip? Insane. Incredible. Bionic.

The thing's not even in my brain, not even... How so? I don't ever even bring it into consciousness. It's slicker. It's like a Mercedes-Benz ball joint. consciousness. And it's slicker. It's like a Mercedes-Benz ball joint. I mean, it's absolutely perfect. Wow.

And, you know, I mean, I've had ACL. I had some knee stuff before. That was harder to recover from than the hip. The hip was – I just felt like I got kicked by a horse for a couple months. And then after that, it was like no-brainer, jump off a cliff, go stand up, paddle, run. I mean, they tell you to not do certain things. No, really? No, you could like you could just start.

Don't do anything you should do with your real one. Really? Don't do anything you shouldn't do with your real one. Yeah, absolutely. That was the only thing. I mean, the guy, Dr. Penenberg, who did mine he he did it to a contortionist i guess some contortionist had some blown hips and he did it to and the girl's still performing and stuff so i don't i think it's i mean this stuff is the technology is amazing and the thing that i i

the thing that i would consider if i ever had to do it again is that the atrophy from the initial problem is harder to recover from than you just go in and get in the new one. And I think when people push it, you know, they used to try to push that stuff because they wanted to wait for the technology got better and they only last 15 years and all that stuff. But the atrophy that you try to recover from is harder to recover from than if you would have gone and gotten it done when you need when as soon as you needed to have it so the one you have now you have to get it swapped out every 15 years no no no no but but in the back in the early days well they they they don't know how long this new stuff lasts they had

some they had some material that that wore out after like because there's some kind of polyurethane, some kind of- Slick outer layer? Well, like a man-made cartilage between the ball joint and the socket. And so that stuff wore out in the past. And they have this new stuff that has been in for 10 years, a lot of people are already and they've seen zero wear on it. Wow. You don't know.

It could be 30. It could be 10. I mean, I was actually, I stayed conscious and I was able to stay awake for my hip surgery. Why did you do that? Because I didn't want to have to recover from the- Anesthesia? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. It takes people a month to get the anesthesia out of their system. Really? Oh, yeah. To try to get the anesthesia out of their system. Really? Oh, yeah. To try to get the anesthesia. I mean, anesthesia is to control death. They just put you right to the edge of dying and keep you alive. I mean, anesthesia is some hard stuff on your system.

To get that stuff out of your organs, you got to do like a full detox cleanse. It's not just like, oh, yeah, anesthesia. I've never heard that before. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. I thought you'd feel like shit for a day or two, but I didn't know it takes a month. That shit's in your organs and stuff. There's no way that stuff just goes out.

They can't dose you out and knock you out like that without that stuff lingering. I mean, how long does it take when you get a hangover? So did they do like an epidural block on you? Epidural block, yeah. And they had it so good that they could just isolate the left hip. They did that to me when I had my first ACL surgery because I wanted to see it.

Yeah. Because I was like, I want to watch. I felt like, I'm only going to do this once in my life. I want to see this. It turns out I had three of them. Yeah.

Three knee surgeries, but I wanted to see it. I wanted to be there. Observe. It was pretty freaky. Yeah. It was ACL? I had ACL too

I had ACL on the right leg I had a cadaver I had a cadaver on my right leg And on the left leg I had a patellar tendon graft So now your hip doesn't even You don't feel it You don't feel anything Not even in the wheel

Not even a thought Not even like amazing And it was debilitating i could barely walk i mean i could still surf but i'd get to land i was hobbling around like you know my friend uh maynard from tool you know the band tool yeah maynard is a he's a jujitsu enthusiast and he had to get his hip done uh and he fucked his hip up from stomping on stage you know because he's always like stomping with one leg yeah he blew his hip out yeah well i think mine's attributed a lot to my back leg and surfing so i'm on that back leg and that back leg is always loaded loaded so i think that but but i know the breaks

the breaks in the other in the left ankle and left foot and how many i had and that i was always on it i know that attributed to a lot because this this this right leg carried the load for that thing for did you get your left leg fixed my ankle ankle yeah no i just let it so every time it broke listen i went i went to my knee uh to get my knee worked on and the guy goes he saw my ankle and he goes and then he saw how much mobility i had and he called in some foot specialists and they had to take x-ray they just wanted to see because i have no metal in there there's no screws there's no nothing i just let it you know it just so every time it snapped you just let it sort of heal itself up yeah so it snapped and you just walk around on it yeah pretty much cut the cast off the first time when i was 16 and i cut the cast off and you know and i went

out and rebroke it the first time and then uh and then i had broke it other ways it got a little smarter after i rebroke it but yeah that's so and then arch the arch i broke the arch because the ankle was so calc so uh bonded that when i broke it i actually broke my arch that was probably the most painful that was the the most painful breakdown in that area. Yeah. Well, when I talked to Kelly Slater, he broke his foot like that too. Yeah. The same sort of deal.

Well, his was just recently. Yeah. Yeah. And his was fucked up for a long time. He said, that's a painful thing to snap your toes. Like the middle of your foot. The metatarsals are crazy. Well, you have 75% of the bones in your body

Are below your ankles What? Really? 75% In terms of numbers Yeah numbers of bones But your feet Your feet have like

Half the bones of your entire body God I never thought of that That's crazy But there's a lot of shit down there A lot A lot there. A lot. A lot going on. A lot.

Little ones and little nubs and weird little ankle. See, that's why kickboxing is so stupid. You're throwing those things at people and slamming them into elbows and knees and stuff. Well, I've fucked my feet up a bunch of times. Oh, guaranteed. Yeah, I've broken my feet. Nothing like kicking something and breaking your feet. Yeah, elbows.

It's a little embarrassing if it's a wall, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Is that what you kicked? No, I'm just saying. No, mine was, like I said, I broke. Mine broke mostly sports related. Motorbike, windsurfing, you know, towing.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess with as many injuries as you've had, though, you do understand, like, what's good and what's bad for you. For sure. Yeah. Well, I guess with as many injuries as you've had, though, you do understand like what's good and what's bad for you. For sure. Yeah. You hope. But you know what's interesting? It's a little bit like in karate where, you know, when you know how to heal, you know how to wound.

Interesting. You know, that the more you understand, it's like I think my injuries, first of all, it's a form of failure. I think that is taught. I've learned a few things from them. And you learn also how to recover and how to heal. And so I think that feeds into how to train and perform. I think that's all interrelated because you start to have a more intimate relationship with your body and know how it responds. So I think there's something.

I mean, you don't learn a lot from winning and succeeding. That doesn't teach you anything compared to losing yeah you know losing teaches you and and in any way injuries are forms of loss sure they're there you know unsuccessful endeavors yeah yeah when you lose your and then you lose your ability to do stuff and then you wonder why you're doing it and if you're going to be able to do it again yeah all that stuff do you float at all um no but i saw your float tank you've never done it i haven't oh man i thought that would be right up your alley i know i just haven't i just i've been invited my friend has one in malibu i just haven't ever you can use this anytime you want yeah i should try to come over and float come on down man anytime you want it's here i can tell

there's salt in there, by the way. Everything's crusting up in the back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guaranteed, yeah. It's 1,000 pounds of Epsom salts in that tank. Yeah. Yeah.

If you're – anytime – Well, I have an ocean, so I float there. That helps, but there's a lot of noise in the ocean. No, it's true. It's just for meditation. But that's what you love about the pool, because you're floating already. As soon as you go under – I actually have speakers underwater. In your pool, really?

Oh, you play music? Oh, wow So you can get lost over there It's pretty cool So what other things do you do besides the curl, press, jump thing? What other types of exercises are you doing in the pool? We're doing single dumbbell Oh, like cleans? Clean, single arm, dumbbell, and stroke, get a breath, free fall.

So you're doing single arm jumping. Okay. And then we're doing single arm swimming. Single arm swimming, carrying dumbbell. I call that an ammo box. How much weight are you doing that with? We can do like 50, 60 pounds. Wow.

It's called an ammo box. It'd be like if you had an ammo box and you had to swim across the river. Like that's kind of the concept. We have cell phone. We have the Yuki. Cell phone? Do you keep your hand out of the water? Yeah.

Yeah. Hold and swim with your hand out. Oh, wow. And then a bunch of, like I said, single leg stuff. So a lot of like Russian pistol squat, jump lunges. What else? A bunch of, oh, fast breaks where we're doing this one

where we drop down. You run along the bottom with two dumbbells to the other side. You set one dumbbell up. You jump up. You bring one dumbbell out. You go back down,

grab the other one, bring that one out and then pull both of them out and drop back down and run back out. We call that one fast break. Kind of mimicking like if it was a basketball court.

You'd run down, you'd jump up twice, run back, jump up twice. And then we have Spider-Man. I mean, Spider-Man is one where you swim, you carry a dumbbell, and you descend into one end. You jump up, you grab, you get a breath, you descend into the other end. And then all these exercises, we're able to we to make them harder we'll do them on an exhale so you can do so to ramp up you know we can either increase weight we can create increased distance or we can do it do it on an exhale so when you developed all this

stuff did you write all this down from your own practice from all trial and error like how did you develop this well some of them came from failure so you know you try to do one move and then you'd fail some of them came from friends that i was working out with that would oh well let's try this and then we'd modify it some some of them came from my daughter i watched my daughter my one daughter swim down one day and grab a weight and then try to swim up with it i'm like oh that's a great move and we you know so we we some of it came out of necessity for movement like certain dynamic uh movements that the basketball guy you know one of my friends needed or uh and then so it naturally all the movements kind of naturally evolved i think that's why they're all so great and there's an isolation to each limb so we have an isolation so you can really see if the dexterity of your right arm

versus your left arm and how strong it is versus the other one how strong one leg is next to the other one how the the ranges of motion and the mobility we're we're doing we can do uh front back flips and front flips multiple so you jump up and get a breath and then do multiple flips and, and, and, and extend work time so that you extend breath work where you'll do, you know, like three or four moves in one on one breath. So we have a bunch of ways to, to ramp it up as we evolve. Cause you know how it is. It's like in any exercise you get proficient and then you're like, well, how do I make

it harder? Well, you make it longer, you make it faster, know how it is. It's like in any exercise, you get proficient, and then you're like, well, how do I make it harder? Well, you make it longer. You make it faster. You make it heavier. I mean, because you're in the water, we always have the breath-holding element, and then we have the distance element, and then we have the weight because we have weight. So we have the weight element. So those are different ways that we can ramp it up. So when you're developing this program are you writing all this

stuff down are you doing these workouts yourself and saying okay i really started to fatigue after 30 of these so we'll try to like i have a group of i have a group of guys that train that come to my house to train six days a week so there's six days a week yeah in malibu or in kawaii malibu oh so because malibu is a summertime right and summertime is when is really like uh the season for training because there's no surf in the wintertime you're not going to train and then have a giant swell and be tired that would be just stupid so you never want to let the problem with it is is that you get you know i i tell people i go listen and probably in any sport you get the most out of shape during the season you're in a certain kind of shape game shape but you're

really not in shape because you can't you can't have a regimented workout routine if you're competing no right and so and so and in my case uh the ocean's dictating the performance right so you can be oh there's going to be 20 feet to next you know in three days and then all of a sudden you show that it's not there's no surf it's only half the size or the wind screws it up or something so you get all that build up so we have to do things to kind of exhaust the energy but you can't be in a nice monday wednesday friday pool training with tuesday thursday saturday you know lifting mobility and yoga and what you know it's like you can't get into that kind of a rhythm and uh and hawaii's not conducive for that anyway it's part of the beauty of it is like i always so

beautiful let's go to the thing we're going to go down the coast because it's a nice day it's a good day for fishing go to the mountain there's just so much other activities to be done we're in this environment you're in the desert and it's kind of like okay it's a june gloom no problem just bang iron or you know ride the mountain or do whatever you're going to do so that's uh then but in that summertime routine uh i have a group of guys and that we bounce everything off of each other so i'll do we'll do 10 and he'll do 10 and he'll do 10 i'll be like yeah that was good okay up the weight okay oh 20 is too many or that weight's too much or that weight's enough and so we just kind of it's evolved naturally that way and then uh and

then i got some uh other friends that are a little bit more professional we have a my friend of mine pj who's been involved with all of the uh stuff around xpt to write programming and do that kind of stuff that chain he trains a lot of fighters and it's great in mobility and and and uh and some other training stuff so he he'll come in and they go they start to really break it down and make it you know into a real program but we have routines that we do we have circuits that we do that we know you know how you know when we're taxed and you know it's an interesting thing about what the pool really teaches you is that you know you we're taxed and you know it's an interesting thing about what the pool really teaches you is that you know you have a volume of energy available we go okay we know we got a 50 gallon tank and i can do three or four drills in in 10 or 15 minutes that you just

there's none left you just blew all 50 gallons right you do extended breath holds with super hard work where i can you know make the give you some things that are a little lighter and now we can take that 50 gallon tank we can drag it out and make it make it last two hours right because we do these we're doing higher volume less weight and so we're you know breathing more often we can expand that thing so everything in between just blowing that whole tank up at once right through real intense breath hold with maximum weight as you know max breath hold max weight uh max rep okay we're good we're i mean it's and i think lifting is the same way you know it's like how many

max lifts do you have in a certain day and how many per week do you have it's real tangible in the pool the pool is real you know the's real tangible in the pool. The pool is real, you know, the interesting thing about the pool is that it doesn't get, you don't get muscle soreness because of that compression. So you don't get that like, wow, I'm sorry. You get it. You go almost every single person that comes. And it's one of the, I always say, you know, you got to call me and tell me if you fell asleep at lunch and every guy every every guy every person you know i was in the thing and just in their desk at the work or whatever just fall asleep like guaranteed and some guys you know oh i fell asleep for an hour i saw 20 minutes 10 minutes you know but everybody

why is it nighty night you know i don't know i think it has a lot to do with the oxygen and that and and and the taxation of that environment but it it exhausts you in a in a in a in like a terminal way like it's a it's it's a complete exhaustion and i and i don't know why part of it is the threat of being underwater part of it is though that the water is sucking the the calories out of you you know because it's like uh when they uh when they were talking to uh phelps about burning all those calories well you know three quarters of the calories he was burning is because he was in a 70 degree pool and people go well it's our 75 degree pool and i go yeah but the body the body's 98.6 so for the body to keep itself warm over in three hours it's it's

at 75 that's 20 degree differentiation you got to keep the body's just working to keep itself warm in that and that and because the water affects you more than the air it's you know it's it's more intense on your system they just you just get tapped so the the water temperature the uh the the the oxygen load the the psychology of being underwater with weights, the workload that it's taking, all those things play into just full, thorough exhaustion. And nothing I do exhausts me more thoroughly and yet more kind of comfortably than that. Because you don't have experience with joint pain. Well, you're not wounded. You don't come in.

If I train that hard in the gym, I'll feel hurt after. Right, right, right. I'll be wounded. I'll be a little like, and if I move wrong or something, I'll be like, oh, you know, you feel like something, you tweak something. So this allows you to do this six days a week. Yeah. That's one of the reasons why you can do it too often. Well, it actually helps flush the other days when you're doing other land training.

So it actually helps support your, but no, I mean, we're not doing, we're doing other land training so it actually helps support your but no i mean we're not doing we're doing pool training probably every other day it's just i end up turning the kind of i love being in the pool so much that we have we do a thing called surf and turf so so we have surf and turf where you're doing like some sort of some sort of burpee press some kind of lifting on the deck into the water and then a routine in the water and then back on the deck and back in the water you might be doing uh we have one a move called seahorse where you hold a dumbbell between your legs and then you hold your feet up in front of you and you swim like this with a dumbbell in your lap oh wow and then when you get to their side then you do push-ups so you do push-ups on that side you you see horse over you do push up that side see horse back you do that i mean you just blow up right so yeah we i i think i i enjoy that that part of it just

just being creative making it fun making it interesting that's the part that really is enticing just the drudgery and the monotony like when you said oh yeah swimming laps i go that's just like drudgery just like which there's a mentality for that i'm good i can be good at that like i can get on a i can get on my board and you know i've i've done some endurance stuff i paddled 22 hours one time um i've done some hours yeah oh yeah so i've done i did actually i actually did a thing on hawaii called the hawaii five we call it the Hawaii 500. We started on the south point of Big Island and we biked across the Big Island.

So 125 miles. Then we paddled to Maui, 38 miles. And then we biked across Maui and then we paddled to Molokai and then we biked across Molokai. Then we paddled to Oahu. Then we biked across Oahu. Then we paddled to Kauai. Then we biked across Kauai.

And we did that in five days. So that's what's day six like. we biked across Oahu, then we paddled to Kauai, then we biked across Kauai, and we did that in five days. Jeez. What's day six like? That's when you start coming good. That's the end, but you're good. No, it's what you said about Eddie. Yeah, about Eddie. About Eddie.

All of a sudden, the body's like, oh, is this our new house? Right. Is this what we do? This this what we do yeah once we once the body makes that decision all of a sudden you're good like okay i'm i'm i'm i'm good i mean the hands had blisters everywhere but the the body felt like oh this is where we you know i did uh the race across america with don with wild man he talked me into it i didn't want to do it and he suckered me into into it and uh he said because i was like he had other plans he was because he was an operator and he's like he wanted me to go in this race and there's four it's a four-man team you know ram is it's called the race across

america it's a bicycle race across america you start in oceanside and in delaware and so you bike across and each guy just goes like 45 45 45 45 and then you chase the other guy when he's riding and you get out and then you just go full bore as hard as you can for 45 minutes so the next guy gets on he goes but you're riding in the car chasing the other guy and you do this day and night right oh you're doing it day and night and he uh you know we the first couple days we felt pretty sick like you felt you don't even you don't even want water like water you look at water and you're like that's when i really learned to appreciate kombucha but uh but we don't even want water and then day two day three all of a sudden day three you're like wow i'm i stomach

thing goes away i'm ready to go i feel good let's go and uh but it was that thing about the body being comfortable with that that kind of drudgery but i i don't mind the the monotony of that of that kind of like hey i'm gonna go that island and just you're gonna paddle for but if i do it in my in routine, like something that's a little more not out of a mission, then I'm like, then you just, you know, I don't want to go in and do the same lifting routine day in and day out. I prefer creating new stuff and making it interesting and having the distraction of the challenge of something new and keep me interested. I get it. It makes sense. What about massage?

Yeah. Love it. Live for it. What kind do you get? Only good ones. But I mean, do you get like deep tissue? Do you get trigger points? I've done kind of almost every single modality you can think.

It's usually about the person. It's usually about the person that gives it and if they're healers or not. So I just try to find healers. When you say healers, what do you mean? The people that do it because they're into taking care of people. They're not doing it as a profession. They don't do it to make money. They make money as a side product, but they healers that they that they just have a gift that they you know

you go you you know you can you can get 10 massages right and and and and they're all can be good but there's just one of the people that they just have a skill they know how to touch they know what it is they know where they know how to feel it they know how to that they know how to to use the system you know i've done uh that my the thing that i'm crazy about right now is i'm crazy about dry needling um that's the thing that has been the the most profound uh i mean i've done uh you know i've done uh shiatsu and acupuncture and the thing and just i mean i you know and and rolfing and i've done the 10 series three times and i mean i've had all those different modalities but dry needling has been you know and then i have another person that that just does and i don't even know what

art it is it's just massage and she just she just is able to understand the tissue, know how, and she's relentless and won't leave it until everything releases. And she knows how to release it. Can you explain dry needling to people? Dry needling is a technique where they use acupuncture needles on soft tissue. And they touch the trigger point and get the system the stuff to release like it it's a it's not acupuncture it's it's a it's a different modality that that um that i'm not sure if it's uh what states it's legal or not in i know most of the athletes that i know they use do it a lot in australia they do it in europe it's not legal in some places huh some places it's not legal yeah why i have no idea probably

because it works and somebody's threatened by it really i mean isn't that usually the case well i guess or someone doesn't understand it and they think someone's a quack and get those needles out of these people you don't know what you're doing. There's no science here. Yeah. Well, there's some science behind it and, and it, but it, it absolutely is the most functional. I mean, I got friends with giant knots in their traps and the,

you know, one session, the thing goes away extremely intense. Yeah. Intense, intense, but it, but,

but dry needling is, you know, if I ever have my friend who's really good at it comes through i'll i'll i'll steer her your way because it's it's it's it's it's the most effective i mean i i've you know i think uh as someone uh that you're always looking right we're always looking like what what you know hey we need the heat we need the ice we need the thing we need the food we need the thing we know where's the turmeric where's the you know, hey, we need the heat. We need the ice. We need the thing. We need the food. We need the thing. Where's the turmeric? Where's the, you know, we always are looking.

And so when I run into things that are effective, I cherish them because I know that, you know, and the problem is you have a high bar. Because when you've experienced great work, you just, you can't, you go get somebody who does the little mushy mushy and you're just like, I don't have time for that. I'll lay still for three hours if I know somebody knows what they're doing. Right, right. But I won't be there for 20 minutes if I feel like it's like- You're half-assed now. Yeah, which is a lot of it. A lot of that stuff's out there.

And no fault to the people. I think part of it is just- They probably just don't know. And their intentions. It's got to be your intentions. Why? Why do you do it yeah it's interesting how some people could just find those problem areas they just oh it's right here and you're like how do you know they know yeah and they and they feel it with their hands they see with their hands and they know right where it's

like connecting and where to dig in and and how to release it yeah that's an art that's why i said facial release it's real it's real when you's what I said. Myofascial release, it's real. It's real. When you're good and somebody really knows what they're doing. That's why I say more about the people than the technique because I can, yeah, yeah, yeah, but give me the person. But that dry needling, it's the most effective of any of the stuff that I've used. And this person is in California that you use?

The girl that helps me is in Hawaii, but they teach in Colorado. It's actually a technique that they developed. Some guys that were studying pain, from my understanding, they were studying pain. And so what they did is they had all these people that were injured in different areas, and then they injected them with different solutions.

And they injected them with like a placebo and like saline and Novocaine and all kinds of different things. And everybody got better. And what they realized is that it was the needle and the acuteness of the needles themselves in the areas that were painful that was causing this release. And so they developed the whole pain referral chart, and then they developed this technique. And it's, because everybody always confuses it with acupuncture. They go, oh, yeah, acupuncture. I go, no, it's not acupuncture.

This is in the soft tissue. Acupuncture is on the meridians and on the electrical system, right? This is soft tissue. This is to get the soft tissue to release. But they'll take stuff that you've had that's just like a cable somewhere or a knot or something that just won't release. But it's back to that no pain, no gain. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

There's always that. I got a lady that does trigger point massage, and it's the most painful shit I've ever experienced in my life. You just want to quit absolutely but when i get out of there the next day everything's like loose and pliable and i've had things that i'm like i've really injured myself and she fixed it yeah and then like a day later like it doesn't hurt anymore i'm like this is strange for and it's been hurt like for months yes so there was something in there that was knotted up. Yeah. And I always assume that that's an injury. And sometimes it's not an injury. It's not. Yeah.

It's just the tissue. It's just not releasing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and this has something to do with the fascia and some other stuff going on that they have to know how to release it. And sauna seems to help that quite a bit too. And ice. Crazy.

The combination of those two are i mean that's that's what i found is that sauna and ice kind of eliminate the need really to get worked on unless it's super acute right like if it's not if it's super acute then there you you you know you need you need somebody to go in there and you know put the jackhammer on it but but if it's not acute like that just the normal maintenance and and and actually put the jackhammer on it but but if it's not acute like that just the normal maintenance and and and actually preventing the stuff from getting to a point where you really need to get the work the sauna ends magic that stuff is crazy good and it seems to me that when i've been ramping up the temperature like in the 200s and now in the two it seems more effective

more effective yeah more effective well it's more intense yeah more torture yeah more torture more results but i'm a little bit you know and i don't know maybe something you can find out but i uh this thing with i'm a little rocky right now with the with the infrared i was gonna ask you that i'm a little rocky with the infrared right now only because of of just some of the something that happened to me with my skin and then and then met i met a dermatologist that was pretty educated, and he was saying that, you know, that he says that it damages the collagen. Infrared does?

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Damages the collagen in your body? Well, it affects the structure of the skin, because of the penetration of it, and that the most you should ever do is this is and these aren't my words but the uh the most you should ever do is is is you know three times a week for 15 minutes at the most for infrared for yeah and and he was saying that uh

and you should never look at it oh as well jesus like it's harmful harmful to the eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I got a regular sauna just because the protocol that the Dr. Rhonda Patrick was talking about for those, I guess it was, uh, was it Norway that did those studies? Yeah. That was all regular sauna.

Yeah. So I'm like, well, if they're getting these results from regular sauna, I'll just do a regular sauna. Well, I like regular anyway, cause it just seems like it's natural.

It's kind of like ice. Like people go and cryo. Hey, you want to go cryo? I go, I have an ice tub. I don't need cryo and by the way if you if you want to do a real ice go in a nice tub because cryo is cakewalk compared to a real ice tub yeah well you can only do cryo for a couple minutes yeah and you don't have heat next to it and i mean you can only do ice for a couple minutes too it's like the thing about cryo though is you can

do cryo and then work out yeah well you can do ice and work out too can you and you know yeah i do that all the time in fact we incorporate ice into training and so one of the things that we do is we'll three quarters into the training we'll just pull out right when you start to kind of lose some of your juice and you'll go do like three minutes and come out and then try and you have another gear so that's another little thing to incorporate ice within that system. Or we'll do ice as we train as one of the stations. Imagine doing a circuit and one of the stations is, you know, we were doing a horse a couple months ago, last season maybe. But we were doing like an iron horse where you're standing in a horse position with your arms.

And we'd stand in that position for 10 or 15 minutes What is a horse position with your arms? You mean like a horse stance? Yeah, horse stance Yes Okay So we're in a horse stance And what are you doing with your arms?

The arms are straight out Okay You're holding Okay So call it the iron horse or whatever Just standing in the horse So you stand in the horse position 10 minutes

Go on the ice 3 minutes Oh Come back out Stand in the thing Go on the bike in the there stand in the thing going back in the ice stand in the thing blow you up explode you like crazy so i mean there's always like i said there's always a little you know a little hook to give it but the ice to incorporate it within your training i think is phenomenal like people that's why i question warming up

because people go warm up how about do three to five minutes of ice and then go start all your cardio and start to train right now? Your body will just be freaked out. Freaked out. Yeah. But the ice makes you stimulated. Like when you feel the system, it's cold, but you're not cold. Right. Because your body's trying to heat up.

Heat up. Just like Michael Phelps in the pool. Heat up. It's revving. Yeah. Interesting. So that's like the science of the fun you know the the for me i i look at it like a laboratory it's a little bit like

being an artist and playing with all that stuff i that brings makes that keeps me interested it keeps me excited about about learning learning because i think it's about learning it's all about learning yeah learning about your body and learning about what's effective. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm glad there's guys like you out there. I really am. The guinea pigs. Yeah, well, the guinea pigs and also the guinea pigs that, again, are in my age group.

Yeah, yeah. So, like, I know that it's possible to keep doing this when I'm 55. Absolutely. Long after that. Well, listen, man, thank you. Thanks for coming here. Thanks for doing that. I want to do your workout, too.

Yeah, well,'re having An open invitation Alright Let's make it happen I gotta I'm still After the fires I'm still cleaning So

This weekend We're doing a cert So we're training some people This weekend But after this weekend I'm open for the summer So if you You want to come and

You know Beautiful I will do that Let's make it happen Thank you brother I really appreciate it Aloha to you too as well Thank you Thank you, brother. I really appreciate it. Aloha to you too as well. Thank you.

Bye, everybody.