The Joe Rogan Experience - #1354 - The Black Keys

Episode Date: September 19, 2019

The Black Keys is a rock band formed in Akron, Ohio, in 2001. The group consists of Dan Auerbach and Patrick Carney. Their latest album "Let's Rock" is available now everywhere.

boom and we're we're moving moving gentlemen all right good to see you moving thanks for being here thanks for having us i'm a gigantic fan we're you already know that but now i get to tell you in person i'm a big fan of yours man well thanks you've become my we were just saying on the way here you've become my uh my late night television i don't watch i don't watch like uh you know jimmy fallon or anything i put on your podcast on youtube i'm just watching it's just blue as fucking mine look at it thank you but you're also like my you're also like my oprah and i was thinking like you need a whole cast you need like a gail king and i do i'm willing to be your dr phil oh yeah i need a advisor. I definitely need a real on-staff scientist to check things.

Like Dr. Oz? No, he's not real. That's what I'm saying. You need the... No, I need a real one. Okay. Like Dr. Oz, he got in trouble for selling horse shit, right? Didn't he get brought in front of Congress?

Oh, I assumed all these people were kind of unqualified for their... Well, Dr. Phil's actually a really good guy. Yeah. He's actually a real good guy. for their well dr phil's actually a really good guy yeah he's actually a real good guy i like one of those uh tv judge bailiff um cops that stands in front of the judge just got arrested for murder no yeah really yeah dude that's my favorite of all the kind of reality shows it's like the judge judy bailiff character like the guy's like that's like, that's right, Judge. That's right, Judge. Do you think he's like a DEA agent that eventually wants to try coke?

What, the bailiff? Yeah, like he's just around, I mean, he's probably a real bailiff, right? So he's probably around so many goddamn criminals. Man, I don't think that they're real bailiffs. I haven't got that. He's a fake bailiff? I just assumed it's Hollywood, man. True.

It's not like the same outfit from Night court a complicated gig you could just hire an actual cop that way you're doubly protected you have a real cop that's standing there yeah really yeah really doing it and then i'm sure they can do that gig just find a guy who's nice that's i think that's a much higher paying gig than a cop yeah and with you know give a cop a break well with that type of money comes corruption and you know that's true that's right that's where it gets ugly all the other cops get mad at them they set them up yeah they plan plan a gun on a plan some drugs what happened to this dude what's a mess you're talking about this dude got set up all the cops like are like, this motherfucker got $150,000 a year job.

Put the fucking gun on him. Have you guys been paying attention to OJ on Twitter? No. What's he doing? It's one of the strangest things ever. He's just talking on Twitter. Just talking about football and politics. And the comments are just the most ridiculous shit everything you would expect i'm

sure you can't read them the comments are just filled with just murder jokes yeah really oh no not his comments you know his comments like under his like his his thing he says this thing then under his all the people that comment on his post it's all just murder jokes as long as he's not making murder jokes i guess no my friend has the largest oj simpson t-shirt collection of like the free oj juices loose in the in the world and he had an exhibit here in la a couple a year ago at a museum like 150 shirts pretty pretty amazing but you know who i like to follow on twitter which i we were talking about earlier i don't really look at Twitter that much,

but I do like Jose Canseco a lot on Twitter. Do you? Yeah. What is he talking about? It's just crazy. It's just extra crazy. He was offering for $2,000, you could go spend the night in a tent with him and look for Bigfoot.

What? Oh, my God. Yeah. It started with him when he shot his finger off, and then it fell off. He was tweeting about that. That's what piqued my God. Yeah. It started with him when he shot his finger off and then it fell off. He was tweeting about that. That's what piqued my interest. When I was 19 years old, I worked at a place called the Boston Athletic Club and Jose Canseco and some other baseball players walked in.

It's amazing how big he was. He was huge. Like a huge person. Huge. Like a just gigantic man. You know, so handsome. Looked like a professional wrestler. Looked like a fake person. Yeah. Really didn't even look like a just gigantic man you know it's so handsome look like a professional wrestler looked like a fake person yeah it really didn't even look like a real person just a giant handsome

super athlete came in to lift weights i'm like huh how fucking weird you know like he's one he's one of only four people i think that has 40 home runs and 40 steals jeez in a season i mean he was on steroids i think oh he's looking for Bigfoot. He really is. He said, I am a Bigfoot expert, and the most famous Bigfoot picture or video ever taken was a costume. The individual wearing the costume was none other than Andre the Giant. Check it out. I don't think that's true.

I think that's pre-Andre the Giant's career, in fact. That picture was from the 60s. That's the Patterson-Gimlin footage. Well, Andre the Giant was alive, though. Are you saying Jose Canseco doesn't know what he's talking about? I'm going to go out on a limb. He's incorrect here. Have you seen what Andre the Giant could drink in an average night?

Oh, yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, we had Jake the Snake on. Jake the Snake used to drive him, and he had amazing stories about driving Andre. Jake the Snake was your designated driver. He would drink literally 24 beers in like a half hour. Oh, the way his hands were so enormous that the beer, they didn't even look real. They looked like minibar beers.

You know, his hand just covers everything. He was so huge. But I saw a guy like Jose Canseco. I'm like, well, there's no fairness in this world. There's no fairness. How are me and that guy the same species There's no fairness in this world Well good Interesting

You learned early Yeah it's a good lesson to learn It's a good lesson Yeah it's like the first time you really get dunked on Pretty hard That can happen to you too bitch I think it's important to kind of be reminded of your position in society,

in the world. When I was 10 or 11, I was listening to the, I was getting driven home from a Little League game by my dad, who's one of the sweetest guys ever, right? And we're listening to the Indians game and this new shortstop, who at the time was terrible, named Jay Bell, like

dropped the ball. And I was like, Dad, I bet you I'm a better shortstop than j bell and my dad stopped the car patrick i love you so much but you're 11 and there's no possible way you're better there's only like 50 professional shortstops and there's no way and then that's it i just was like oh my god but i realized at that moment i was like man my dad's never gonna bullshit me that's kind of cool that's very cool yeah that's very cool yeah you don't need to be bullshitted that's the problem that's the problem with a lot of kids today they've been bullshitted their whole life they're like oh yeah you're the best you're the best son you are better than him like you just need to go and take that job it's yours well

there's a lot of wacky people too that are living through their kids you just need to go and take that job yeah it's yours well there's a lot of wacky people too that are living through their kids you know they're they're like all their expectations of success have now been turned on their progeny oh yeah you know they have this thing they just want their kids to kick ass and go out there and fucking kick ass you know it's like oh slow down yeah it's hard. Fine line. Yeah. How do we get a, oh, Jose Canseco's Twitter. It's crazy, huh?

It's crazy. It's a wild dude. Wild man. I mean, it's cool that a guy that, I mean, his life story is incredible. If you ever had him on, I'm guessing. No. You should have him on. Oh, my God.

That would be great. Bash Brothers. Yeah. Have him just tell exclusively Bash Brothers stories. People are always going to be mad at him forever because of the steroids thing. Right? Because he told on those other guys that were doing it. His other Bash Brother was found out, right?

Mark McGuire. I don't know, man. I don't know much about the... I mean mean i know the difference between doping and steroids or whatever but i kind of feel like if you're i don't know about steroids necessarily but if you're if you're riding a bike across france and like i don't know i just like feel like you should dope a little bit i'm not doing it someone needs to do it well doctors have actually said it's probably physically safer to take the steroids if you Someone needs to do it Well doctors have actually said It's probably physically safer To take the steroids

If you're going to do something like Tour de France Because it's so insanely grueling On your body That you want to be able to recover But we have this weird thing It's like there's a thing That makes your body work better

But you're not supposed to take it If you take it We get mad at you But we want you to do good We want you to do your best But we don't want you to take this thing You could drink yourself to death We're never going to stop that But we don we want you to do good we want you to do your best but we don't want you to take this thing you could drink yourself to death oh yeah we're never going to stop that but we don't want you taking steroids because then you'd be too big and you hit too many balls like

what what how come you can't do it everybody or nobody yeah it's the cheating thing the thing is it it affects kids that's where it gets dangerous is because you if you find out oh my god these guys just openly do steroids and they tell you what they do yeah then middle schoolers will be doing it yes that's the real that's the real fear the real fear it's a because that's that that would happen because there's middle schoolers that are professionally like competitive sure all over this country kids in high school do steroids i mean like, also, you do a bunch. I know somebody that did a bunch of steroids, and he was describing to me the process of,

that he literally was doing it, he wanted to get big, you know. And I was like, so what do you do when you're big? He's like, well, you got to start taking these estrogen blockers and all this stuff. I was like, what the fuck? He's like, yeah, if you don't take, your body stops making testosterone. And I was like like what the fuck he's like yeah if you don't if you don't take your body stops making testosterone and i was like what the fuck i was like well that's i mean like this is probably controversial statement but i like well bruce jenner said he like um like did stairways for breakfast i mean did that you think that like depleted his testosterone production they don't i don't i don't think they believe that there's a connection

between gender identity and testosterone levels i think they think it's a wiring issue for lack of a better term but there is always a thing that happens to people if you take steroids that your body has this inability to make its natural hormones and so you get depressed it's like a depression time and it could be really funky for a lot of athletes is that where like jose can say goes out there looking for bigfoot is it because he just needs to clear his head could be he also had some mma fights he might have got his brains knocked loose like he uh he had one mma fight against this fucking big giant dude. What was his name? Yeah, that was early, early MMA.

No, it was after his whole career thing had gone. He got it. He had a fight with the, was it Hong Man Choi? It was Hong Man Choi. Hong Man Choi is huge. So him just to accept this fight is crazy. Let me see what that is. It's like, yeah, Hong Man Choi is like literally seven feet tall.

And Jose Canseco is an enormous guy. I recognize him from movies. He's not enormous compared to Hong Man Choi. And Hong Man Choi was a professional MMA fighter. He fought some really, really tough guys in Japan. So it was a total complete mismatch. But he needed the cheddar. So he stepped in.

Look at the size of choi that looks like when you have like a real gi joe guy and then like the generic gi joe guy it looks like he fucking found bigfoot and even though like kenseiko is still a fucking gorilla i mean he's a stout man super powerful gigantic man but that just shows you how big hung man choi is. Did he get? He got pummeled. He got pummeled. I think he blew his knee out, if I remember correctly. I think he threw a kick and he blew his knee out.

And then Hung Man Choi pounded him in the middle. Danny Bonaduce, too? Yeah, it was. It just. Oh, no. Did he really? I just saw a picture of him standing together in the ring. Oh, my God. He's so much bigger than Danny Bonaduce.

He's a really huge guy. Right there. Is that there? Yeah. Oh, my God. He's so much bigger than Danny Bonaduce. He's a really huge guy. Right there. Is that there? Yeah. Oh, my God, he did. Danny Bonaduce is crazy. Jesus. Well, his head looks like it's been Photoshopped on.

But wait a minute. Wasn't that Canseco's brother? Wasn't that his brother posing as him? He's super tatted up. Oh, my God. No, no, he's not, though. I know who this guy is, though. Yeah, but I mean, no, he's not even. but i mean no he's not even what's one of those that's one

of those uh shirts that you put on it's like a rash guard but it's got tattoos on it and it looks like you're tattooed up i wish our brothers would start posing as us yeah i don't think that that was canseco i think it was canseco's brother i think it was like found out later is it like how gallagher has gallagher's brother we Yes, yes, yes, Gallagher. We were talking about that Gallagher, too. Look at that guy. That's not Canseco. They don't even mention his name.

His name isn't mentioned in the article. That's like Danny Ayo. I mean, he's still a big, giant dude, too. The only way the story could get published is with that resolution of photo. Eight pixels. Dude, isn't that crazy you i don't know if you look at facebook or if you have it but i do have it i keep up with my high school friends and my parents friends and stuff and the amount of stuff i see retweeted or reposted i'm from the left and the right is just so crazy man these weird fake websites with the most

outrageous and you can tell like you know most people know it's fake because they're like one like and everyone's just afraid to acknowledge to the person like your uncle yeah man that what is that that's not really jose can say go man well how about those you won't believe what she looks like now websites you know it's on like cnn you go down the bottom of cnn dude that's my How about those you-won't-believe-what-she-looks-like-now websites? You know, it's on CNN. You go down the bottom of CNN. Dude, that's my Instagram. I scroll back a couple years.

I'm like, what the fuck happened to me? I'm like, I fucking quit smoking. I gained like 35 pounds. I went gray. I'm like, fuck, man. How much does smoking affect the way you feel? Not smoking is, I feel amazing. But it was a weird addiction I had, heavy addiction.

How many cigarettes were you smoking a day? A lot, man. Like two packs, easy. Whoa. For like 18, 19 years. Woo, that's a lot. I know, but I had a baby coming, and I just set a date. No books, no anything, no pills or anything.

Set a date, and I bought a 12-pack of beer and four packs of cigarettes and went into my studio and just smoked every cigarette and drank every beer and just felt like shit on purpose knowing that i wouldn't want a cigarette and i never smoked a cigarette after that but i did gain a lot of weight i mean chicken parmesan tastes a lot better when you're not smoking cigarettes it's like you know i don't know you have kids i i had my first kid last year and you end up you go through that you know i think most people go through it you just realize like oh like, oh, shit, like, I'm almost 39. I got to stick around for this kid and cut the bullshit. So that's what motivated me to do it.

It really affects your taste buds, huh? I think it affects your metabolism a lot. It makes you speedy, right? It makes you speedy. It just satiates your appetite yeah you don't like i i eat i eat like normal meals now and i've gained weight but before i realized i was just like barely eating food my friend tony smokes and he went down to the jewel then he quit that totally tony hinchcliffe and um he would smoke cigarettes before a show i go give me one of

those things i go what does that do for you i go give me one of those things and i'd lit it and i hadn't smoked a cigarette in you know more than a decade and i the last time i did i did it for like a play i couldn't believe how high i got i'm like oh my god this gets you so high yeah like it's crazy oh yeah but it does the first couple and then chase the dragon once you're back in there yeah you're not getting that but it's it is amazing like on its own like what the the hit that you get from a cigarette i'm like holy shit i feel great well i do like i don't i feel like uh every once in a while i'll it'll be in a situation where i'm like oh man i actually really do want a cigarette but instantly I'm like that will mean

for me buying a whole pack being right back on it. Although I was like well maybe I'll go give myself one week in the year

and just torture myself and allow myself to look forward to that one week in the year smoke some cigarettes. If you can make that kind of deal

with yourself I think that's possible. I think I'm capable of it because I do have pretty good willpower i mean i was able to quit just like cold turkey the people that would be like addiction specialists would tell you that you're fooling yourself you're fooling yourself buddy if i try to pretend i'm an addiction let's say i'm an addiction specialist come on yeah you don't need it yeah and i know you've gone without this long look how great everything is i know i mean but then you want to go back to why do you want to open up but then i would open up the store to this whole thing like why do you need anything that's a good point i mean and then it's

like it's like it's because it's fun and if i could do it for one week and it's be less harmful than every day yeah you know i mean everybody has addictions everyone's full of addictions whatever it is like i'm addicted to sleep i think that's my biggest addiction it's like i i'm like well that was a big my biggest fear really about having a child like how am i gonna sleep what the fuck i i need you know i mean like freaking out and to this day i'm like oh i get up to take my stepdaughter to school at like seven and then i'm like i come back in the house and i just sneak back into bed and i try to avoid having to wake up to take care of the baby i have excuses ready to go like i got so much to do later today man i just need a couple more hours that's a good thing for your body though not enough people get that so that's a good addiction

you got a solid healthy addiction i think if you don't get enough sleep it's the worst thing for you i mean i've that's when I feel the craziest. Me too. I feel like everything's barely keeping it together. You know, I'm functioning at like 70%. I know when I've reached a wall of exhaustion. It's like when I go, like I need a nap, and then I lay down, and I just have a full-on existential crisis.

Like all, I get really stressed out when I'm tired. But, yeah, I mean. The cigarette one's so weird because if you think how many people are doing it right now, listening to this, smoking a cigarette, and all of them know it's bad for them. But everyone's just drawn to it. It's just so weird. And it kind of represents that you're having fun. It represents that you're free, know, you're free, doing whatever the fuck you want, smoking a cigarette,

I know it's bad, shut up. I don't know, I found it, it's only like that once, when you're like 15. No, no, I think it's like that.

And then it's never like that again, and then it's just an addiction. Well, I do smoke a cigar every once in a while, and I think that the thing about, that's similar between the two,

aside from nicotine, is because you don't get much nicotine from a cigar. It's like not nearly the same. Not comparable. Not at all. But it is like you're, okay, it's like I'm telling myself and everybody around me, like, fuck off for however long I have this time to myself. You know what I mean?

So it is like a, there's that aspect to it. And I don't know. I mean, I think that if you marketed cigarettes, right, man, you could get every motherfucker smoking. Cause you could just say like, it's like the new cacao nib. It's like Native Americans use this shit. It's a natural antidepressant. Get on the fucking.

This doesn't have any, any chemicals. No chemicals. Is there a difference as a cigarette smoker between the high you get from an American Spirit or a hand-rolled cigarette versus a cool? When you're smoking cigarettes, you're just into your brand. I actually bought a Juul based on a recommendation from a friend years ago. So long ago that they follow me on Twitter. They must have looked at who was buying this shit and i was one of the few people that was verified or something it was 2014

or 15 and um that's when i knew like when i i knew that i could not be vaping i hate it and i was like the minute a you look like an idiot but b like, it's like a temperature thing for me. It's too hot. It's fucking gross. And it's like, might as well just not be smoking if you're going to smoke the Juul thing. But it's weird because my stepdaughter, all of her friends are fascinated by the Juul specifically. It's like an epidemic with these high school kids that want. And I was like, that's a funny joke until you all get addicted to cigarettes because that shit's fucking real well it's also some kids are having problems with the oils in their lungs right i don't know yeah there was yeah some kids

i was probably for not moving around that's probably just from looking at their ipad all day i think they were saying that they'd grown some sort of infections in their lungs. They'd damaged their lungs. I don't know if it's true, though. You know, it's like one of those stories that I just looked at the headline, and I didn't look into it at all. It's Facebook, one like post. Now, Jamie, do you know, is that legit? Like, have people really experienced severe lung disease associated with vaping?

Is that real? I think they're trying to link it, or there has been studies saying that maybe this is from it because there's some sort of chemical that's in it but that's probably just the it's probably just the cigarette lobbyists trying to shut that down well it's the number that's weird it's like not that many it's like a couple yeah like what are they doing i don't know i mean i don't i don't think that the government should be regulating that kind of stuff i mean it should make sure it's safe, but they shouldn't outlaw it. I saw that California or someone... Well, it seems easy for kids to get.

That's where it gets weird. It's like the reason why we keep kids from cigarettes. I don't know. It's not fair to get them hooked on something that's that physically addictive that young when your brain is still forming. It's like a sneaky trick. If you can keep it away from kids at an early age. But it makes them feel cool, man.

Well, I mean, I feel like weed wasn't that hard to get when we were in high school. But now it must be way easier. So I don't know. Do you think it's easier to get weed or cigarettes if you're in high school? In California? Probably weed. I mean, people,

I know people here that like, when I was smoking, like, oh my God, I can't believe you smoke. And then there's like, smoking a joint.

I'm like, man, fuck off. Yeah. Fuck off. And they're driving around in their Tesla and I'm like,

that's a cool ass fucking car. But what happens when you get like a 300 pound battery full of heavy metals in a dump like 100 years from now i don't know what the fuck happens who the fuck knows what do they do with the the metals from the batteries

well i'm just saying man these giant that's what's in the jewel no i'm just no i'm saying like i'm just saying man that the thing about the tesla and all these electric cars is i think that they're really smart and cool but i but the idea of having to to filter all these electric cars, I think that they're really smart and cool. But the idea of having to filter all these rare earth minerals into one place, not much. It's the first time that's ever happened. It's a good argument. Well, I don't know. It's an interesting argument. We had a buddy who had leukemia and bone cancer, actually.

And his doctor, who wasn't a quack, I think he was at the Cleveland Clinic, was like, this is from having too many heavy metals in your system. That's how you got this. He's's like your heavy metals are out of control and the doctor said did you grow up near a mine and the kids asked his parents he's like what's this about and they're like oh yeah we had you on a commune in in uh in colorado we lived there for your first year of life in a mine like? Like, in an old mine. It was an old mining town. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, and it said that that's probably what it came from.

I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about, man. I'm a drummer. No, but that makes sense that you would get that from a mine. I mean, if it gets into the air, into the atmosphere. Well, because you're filtering the heaviest metals down. I don't know if you've ever been to, like, there's a town, what's it called? Jerome, Arizona.

My wife's from Sedona. And near there, there's this little mining town called Jerome. It's a really cool, like, kind of touristy spot. But there's this giant slag hill. I mean, it's massive. And it's just, like, all of the shit that wasn't copper or gold or silver but was heavier and sinking to the bottom when they're looking for that stuff and then they throw it and that's the kind of shit that's the rarest mineral stuff that they make you know cadmium and whatever else

lithium so it's just laying around well it's just your when you're in these mining towns with ice which would concentrate it because it was all the stuff they wouldn't use. It was waste. It was waste. It was waste stuff. So did they know, has anybody done some sort of an environmental test to find out what effect it's had on the water or the soil? I don't know, man. I don't know. We'll find out. I know a dude who had severe bone cancer because he grew up in an area that was irrigated with different pesticides.

They put pesticides down. It got into the groundwater. And then quite a few people in his neighborhood got cancer. And they made a correlation. Who knows if it's 100% what caused it, but a bunch of people got similar cancer. That's how my grandpa died. My grandpa was a landscaper, and he had a plastic bucket,

and he would take the pesticides, and he'd fill the bucket with water, put the pesticide in, mix it with his hand every day. Oh, Jesus. And he died of bone cancer. Same thing. Oh, fuck, man. Well, I've also heard that lung cancer, a lot of it is caused from actually the fertilizer used, which is, it's like a plumonium, the same shit they use to kill the Russian spy. Basically, it's an isotope of lead, I think.

And if you heat it up, it becomes this isotope. And over years of smoking, your body builds up small amounts of plutonium. Eventually, you know. And that mixed with the carbon, the radioactive carbon isotopes of smoking you know that's why i mean i think you figure that out i'd still be smoking if you could just get rid of those two things well if they just figure out some sort of stem cell spray you can do in there every day it heals 100 all the smoking damage how many people would go back smoking would it heal the brain damage does Does smoking give you brain damage as well?

No, but I mean like Jose Canseco, if he has that. That would be cool. They're thinking they may be someday able to regenerate tissue in the brain, but they've never been able to prove that they can do it. It's just a theory. They think they can regenerate disc tissue too, and I know they're doing studies on that, like the spongy stuff in between your spinal column. They think they can regenerate that stuff too and i know they're doing studies on that like the spongy stuff in

between your spinal column they think they can regenerate that stuff with stem cells but there's no no proof yet but it's it's exciting stuff i mean it's exciting i personally prefer to ignore all all medical stuff because it freaks me out i went to the doctor like to get a as they get a physical for the first time and it's just based on me. I quit smoking. I've gained some weight. Let me just figure out where I'm at. And we also needed one for our tour. Insurance.

Yeah, we had to do physical. For insurance. And I went like, what's up with this? How's my heart look? And the woman, literally the woman that was putting my heart like, I can't get this other. I think I got it right. The EKG thing. I was like.

So my heart looks good. It looks really good. I was like. Jesus my heart looks good. It looks really good. I was like, Jesus Christ. And then they did some blood work, and I was like, yeah, it looks really good. There's some high levels of this and that. I was like, what's that? And they were like, I don't know.

We don't really know. But just, we'll check in in a couple months. And I was like, came back. Yeah, I think you've just gained some weight, but we're not really sure. Like, basically, I don't don't know i mean i've seen medicine save people's lives before and then i've i've seen also like it'd be like you know see you know it basically it feels like they still don't know what the fuck is happening in your body a lot of times yeah so it's like it's best to like probably avoid a lot of that shit it's like if try try to avoid getting sick definitely if you can that's my medical advice

that's solid advice well i mean like i went and they told me that i had this like elevated liver enzyme i was like is that from drinking beer or something like no actually it's just like it's not it's not even like it's not that it would be different it'd be the opposite i was like well what's it from? I don't know. Don't worry about it. I went to this other guy. He's like, oh, okay, yeah. You've got some fat in your liver.

Is it because I gained weight? Because that's why I'm here in the first place? Probably that's it. I was like, what should I do about it? Just lose some weight if you can. He's just like, since he got the physical, he's just been laying awake at night. I'm just like stressing out now.

I'm like, I'd be better off not getting this physical because I could have diagnosed myself of being a fat ass myself. Like, I don't need this shit. You know what you needed? You needed someone who's a doctor but also can take you several steps down the road. This is what we're going to do.

Here's what your plan is. Well, it's all about bedside manner, man. It's all about that. Because look, I had this person be like, look, if there's something really that you really need to be stressing out about, I'll let you know, but otherwise I'll stress out for you. I'm like, that's not how I work. If I know that there's one thing that,

and like, you know know someone really close to me had a really severe life-threatening um episode earlier this year that was very fucking traumatic for everybody involved including myself and i i ended up gaining like 20 pounds in a month basically 15 pounds from this and i haven't really been able to shake it and that's what led me to get this physical but watching this thing happen to this person was very close to me was like um i was like what the bedside manner was just like insanity because it was the first time i've been in a real someone that wasn't didn't have like a long-term illness just like life it's life or death and it was like there was no there was no comforting it was like oh yeah at any minute this person could die for like five days

i think is there anything you could do like no not we've done everything just you know just uh everything just you know just uh sit tight it was like fuck yeah it's like yeah yeah do you think they have ptsd do you think like emergency room doctors have ptsd they have to right oh yeah well you think well the idea that this one person had to sit me down and tell me what was going on and like the look in this dude's eyes it was like he looked freaked out but he would he he wasn't calming me at all you know what i mean it was right but he also didn't want to lead you know he couldn't pretend it was going to be okay but yeah i can't have those conversations with someone i can't imagine every day multiple times i can't imagine it yeah people get mad at you sometimes? Oh, man. I can't imagine it. I could never do that job. I think we don't think of them as experiencing it traumatically because they're doctors.

We think they should be able to handle it. But, I mean, they're also humans who are seeing dead humans. Those consequences affect every one of us. When you look at that all the time, i don't buy that you don't experience some form of like intense stress i mean i've experienced intense stress from doing the thing i love the most which is playing playing concerts you know i mean i've experienced it firsthand where it's like and it that's way different when does it hit you like when obviously i'm not like telling someone their fucking loved ones like about to fucking die but uh do you still feel man for me it's all about just being in the right headspace

you know i mean like when we first started playing we would play these indie rock clubs you know because we come from that background like i guess what they would call now hipster shit or whatever. And that was just people who liked, you know, really passionate about certain types of music that wasn't massively appreciated, you know, which is still kind of what we're into. But because of that, most of the people that were coming to our shows were, like, the high-fidelity type record store clerk.

You know, you're playing a show, and it's just, like, arms crossed. And afterwards, like, pretty good. You know, we'd be, like be 22-year-old kids. And the gatekeepers were like 30, 32-year-old. Now I would look at them as maybe being supportive. More supportive. But at the time, it felt more like judging. So if I get in the wrong head state headset headspace then i'm out on stage i'm like oh man

everyone's here to like judge judge us or something you know i mean like what you're looking at this big crowd but then i have you know i ultimately do i ultimately tell myself i was like the worst band of all time has probably played to more more you know like some terrible like band of all time has probably played to more more you know like some terrible like menudos played to more people you know i mean like this isn't that many people it's like like tonight we're playing the wiltern like there's like 3 000 people it's like let's be honest like the worst stand-up comedian like i don't know or the i don't know man like like the fifth jonas brother could sell 5 000 tickets in la probably so it's less stressful when you, when I like,

or Gallagher too could probably sell 3000 fucking tickets in Los Angeles. Come on. That's how I look at it. You know, I'm like, Oh, we deserve to be here more than that. We put our time in.

That's a hilarious way to look at it. I'm serious. Well, why would you concentrate on things that you think that suck? Does that alleviate anxiety? Does it actually work? work no i read this thing uh that captain beefheart one of our favorite musicians said and it was like if you started if you think about what you're doing you've already lost the battle and the the reality is that i don't need to think about and i know dan doesn't we don't need to think about what we're doing so because we're not thinking about what

we're doing like the trick is to stay in the moment with the music but i can play and not think about it and then i start thinking like what's that person fucking thinking about out there you know i mean it's like i'm like i got this other conversation happening here i'm like and like an intruder yeah it's like i like like temporary schizophrenia like pat what if you just stop playing? You're like a devil and angel. Yeah, there's like, I actually remember thinking that on stage at Glastonbury. It was like 200,000 people or close to that. And I'm like, oh, if I just stop playing, what would happen?

And so I'm like, maybe don't do that. Don't do it. Just keep going. Yeah, Pat's story had almost had a breakdown in Lollapalooza one year. It was intense for both of us, actually. Because you know what it was? I mean, you should tell the story. I mean, I just remember it from my point of view.

I don't know. I don't know what was going on through your head at the moment. Five Red Bulls. He was getting into this thing where he would be really anxious and drink a lot of Red Bull. Oh, no. And so we got on stage and it was like a sea of people

and he was on his fifth Red Bull and his eyes were like saucers and he was just staring at me. And I had to like talk him off the ledge, right? Like I had to like put my foot up on the riser and kind of lean in and kind of talk in a voice, calm voice. Hey, man, how you doing? I mean, I was just exhausted, really. I'm like, what do you want to do?

Whatever you want to do is cool with me. You know what? Just let me know. He had to calm me down. How many Red Bulls does it take before it becomes speed? I don't drink that shit anymore. But, you know, I think we also had been playing these shows, and it was exhausting. Yeah, most of it had to do with our schedule, our stress.

And it was in the middle of summer. It was hot as hell, and I would think I was severely dehydrated. But, I mean, I was, because we played this one show in Des Moines right around this time. This was in 2010, right? So this is when this happened, was at Lollapalooza 2010. And this is a festival that we had played like four times before. So it wasn't like something new.

And we weren't even headlining this time. It was just like we were on stage doing something. I was actually looking forward to the show. But this was like a pivotal moment for me. It was like I just kind of missed the beat of a song. Something that no one else even noticed

other than probably Dan. And then I was like, oh, shit. And I got like, I spun out. And then I just kept spinning out. You know what I mean? Like a panic attack on stage.

And when you have like a panic attack, like, you know, you tend to get a panic attack doing the same thing you did before. So I, for a while, was having little mini panic attacks every time I was on stage.

But I got through the set and everything was fine, but I was like, fuck. And part of it was that I looked out and there were like 50,000 people. We'd been playing this festival four or five times before to crowds starting at maybe 5,000 people, and now here we are. The way most of the festival is watching us play. And it was like,

oh shit, what the fuck's happening? Finally people were here, and I was like, I can't fuck it up now. And then like, boom. Well, you know,

I went to go see this dude here in LA, in Santa Monica, named Cary Gaynor, who like, he specializes in like he's a hypnotist i mean look man i didn't know what to do wait a second this gets so good man keep going dude i didn't know what to do because i didn't like a couple friends i'm like man just get some

beta blockers get some get some uh volume drink some beer i. I can't do any of that shit before I go on. I can't be relying on that before I play. So I was like, I got a recommendation to go see this hypnotist who specializes in quitting smoking and fear of flying and also stage fright. There's a lot of actors who are going to do plays for the first time. So I went to go see Carrie at his house and uh we were playing some shows at the pladium and he he did this thing hypnotized me and the second night like i went that first night we played it was like better the second night we played it was like pretty much gone and then i woke up in the hallway of the roosevelt hotel and the stairwell in my underwear at like seven in the morning and i'm literally in this in my in i'm in the staircase in my underwear at seven in the morning and i i'm like what the fuck

and i just remembered like this number like 708 i think it was like 708. Because I'd only been to the room two times. And my girlfriend at the time was in there, luckily. And I went and knocked on the door. She's like, what the fuck? Where the fuck were you going? I was like, I just don't know. Hypnotism. It's real.

Jeez. Have you ever been hypnotized? Yes. Yes. Did it work? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, there's a guy who was on yesterday actually his name is vinnie

shorman he hypnotizes a lot of fighters okay and uh he uh he ties his fighters yeah he gets them into this it's really interesting like i've never had it before and i wanted to try it i was like okay i had these thoughts it was probably bullshit or for people who have weak minds. But it's a state that they can talk you into. And someone who's really good, like Vinny, can talk you into this state. And then you're totally conscious, but you're definitely in this weird tunnel where you feel safe, like mentally safe. It works. And you can talk and think about things in a way that's almost free of normal regular anxiety you can you can

address the anxiety you can see it but it's for the brief amount of time while you're really in that state you you can get rid of all that shit this dude very weird this guy um carrie i remember a couple things specifically that he said and i went so that he said like you know you're you know you're you know you're you're afraid of messing up like that's the whole point of like being in a rock band is like it's okay to mess up it's not supposed to be perfect you know i mean perfection isn't something that anybody even wants you know i mean like if you go to like an art gallery and you see like a thomas kincaid painting no one wants that shit. You know what I mean?

He was telling me all this. He was telling me this shit. He was basically like, your personality is, everyone's flawed. We're human beings. It's okay. Whatever.

You're not supposed to be perfect. You have no desire to be the, there's no drumming competition you've entered. You know what I mean? And it was like, I came out of it like, yeah, fuck it. I'm supposed to just be you have no desire to be the you know there's no drumming competition you've entered you know i mean and it was like i came out like yeah fuck it like i'm supposed to just be here having fun and i it worked and then i got really nervous a couple years later when we were supposed to play the grammys uh on tv and i just got really fucking nervous about it um and i think i got nervous because it's just it's like one of those things it's not natural for us right it's like we're going to be playing music on stage with all this pop music and stuff

that has nothing to do with what we're about. But we couldn't say no. I think we had to do it because we couldn't just knock it until we tried it. But we had sat through the Grammy performance before and it was atrocious. I mean, it really is like like, so alienating for, I mean, especially when the big pop stuff comes out.

It's like, what we do is something different. You know what I mean? So I went to go see him before we played the Grammys, and he did this whole thing. He's like, well, I was hypnotized. And I remember it. Like, he's like, when they tell you 30 seconds, you're going to start, 30 seconds until you're on,

you're going to start smiling. you're on you're gonna start smiling when they get to like 15 it's gonna get bigger when they say 4 like you're just not gonna be able to

stop smiling and I was like anyway this shit if you watch the video I'm just like smiling the whole time and the minute

the song ends like I just drop my drumsticks I'm like get me the fuck out of here I'm never doing that again but it was I will say it was like I think it's the best tv performance that why you're never doing it again because you never perform at the grammys again or you'd never get hypnotized again oh i

would get hypnotized again if i needed it i just the stress just the stress just the stress of doing it i mean i think i would do the grammys again possibly, sure. But it was like, at the time, it just seemed like unnecessary stress. And then this whole, all this, I think I had a couple issues about the Grammys, because the first time we ever went, we won two Grammys. This is the weird thing. We go, and the awards that we're nominated for were given away at the pre-telecast. This is the first time we were nominated for Grammys. This is on our record Brothers.

So we're there like February 2011. And my brother Michael was nominated for a Grammy. So he, for a record cover of the year for our record. So Mike wins a Grammy first, right off the bat. First award of the day record cover mike wins it gets down to like the alternate the rock category we win like rock performance of the year or something we go in the staples center conference area wherever we go collect our award and we're standing on the side of the stage and they say, next up are the rock song of the year.

They list all the nominees, including us. So we stay there because we're all nominated for this award. And also Neil Young for whatever song. So Neil Young wins that. And they're like, this is Neil Young's first Grammy award. And at that moment I was like, what the fuck? My brother Michael has had a Grammy

longer than Neil Young. I'm like, that's so fucking crazy i'm like us two knuckleheads have two and then we go and we win a grammy right after him we win alternative album of the year so now we have more grammys than neil young within 10 minutes and i was like this is all kind of fucking insane isn't it like uh none of it makes sense i start looking like none of my favorite bands have fucking Grammys. The Clash don't have a fucking Grammy. The Clash don't have a Grammy?

No. What? So then, anyway, I'm thinking about this the whole day. This is insane. I mean, it's exciting. It's cool. But it's also like, it means a lot less when your favorite bands don't have Grammys that should have them.

How does a Grammy work? Well, wait. I was going to finish this thing real quick. Because this is what the apprehension I have about the Grammys is like this day ended with us going back to the hotel we were staying at, which at the time

was the Chateau Marmont and TMZ was there and it popped out. We tried to just avoid, Warner Brothers has a party there. We were trying to avoid all of that stuff just to go hang out with our friends. And a camera little bumps out at the liquor locker right there on the corner.

And the guy asked me, he's like, how do you feel about Justin Bieber not having a Grammy? And I was just like, I'm sitting there thinking about the clash. You know what I mean? And Justin Bieber, he's got... I'll sell him my grammys for all the money he has basically what i'm trying to say is like the motherfucker should be happy

just to have a fucking career um i said something like that and i wasn't it was just like i'm not you know it wasn't even like necessarily a knock on justin bieber just like that's my response to the question i'm thinking about something else and i'm getting in the car and we leave and then the next morning i wake up to a tweet this is right at the height of the anti-bullying shit too which is like you know justin bieber like don't bully motherfucker he's like the drummer from the black keys should get slapped at the time i was like thought it was the funniest fucking thing that's ever happened. But I was like, you know what? I can't deal with any of that shit. Like, I don't want any of that shit. And so I realized, like, that was my experience.

My apprehension about playing the Grammys all came back to that. It was like, what is the fucking Grammy? What is this shit? Like, we're just jerking ourselves off like congratulating ourselves does anybody watch this shit that really cares about us i don't think so well also what if there's like 12 great bands there's only one of them win the grammy of the year right is there second place third place is there anything like like like the idea of judging art is always weird but to judge like? You got one?

You pick one out of all these that are awesome? It's also like, ultimately, it's no different than any other election. The year that we were nominated for Album of the Year, so was Jack White. So we split our votes. You know what I mean? Someone had to either vote for us or jack or like mumford and sons it's ultimately complete nonsense it seems like it perverts the love of the thing because it's like what you guys do is awesome i love your music but

i i feel you're like i just want you to do it you know just when there's little contests and this is number one and this one wins this and this is the band of the year and the album of the year like says who and why is it a contest can't it just be this is awesome shit here's some different awesome shit that's why we didn't that's why we didn't bundle that was the whole motivation behind this record was like it was to not um not partake in the current bullshit in the music industry which is so check this out do you mind if i explain it please do okay we had a conversation with our manager um about this record right you know release and it went from everything like we have family we don't really want to be on the road for 100 days this year.

We don't necessarily want to do anything we don't want to do anything we're not excited about. You know, so it came down to the promotion and stuff. And it was basically, we want to get in front of people and play our songs and have fun. And the conversation came up about the actual album. Warner Brothers was interested if we wanted to bundle it, which is when you include the record with a ticket. And a lot of people have been doing it, whether you buy a T-shirt and you get a record,

and it's a digital download link. And I was like, well, how does that work? And they're like, well, you would get five dollars from each ticket back to warner brothers and then you would get a record sale and i was like that doesn't make that doesn't make any sense to me and to dan and they're like yeah well you would you it's the only way you're gonna get a number one record so if you want a number one record, you've got to do that. And I was like, well, so it's one-to-one. We give five bucks back, and then we get a royalty,

and we get a ticket sale. No, you don't get a royalty, and you only get an album sale count if they click the link. And we have a 50% click-through. So in other words, we would pay $10 per sale on Nielsen SoundScan by giving the money back that we've sold on tickets to Warner Brothers,

to our record label. I was like, fuck that. Fuck that shit. At this point. That is a crazy deal. Check it out. We've sold 250,000 tickets on this tour. So we would give back 1.25 million.

Our record advance for this record was less than that. So I was like, if Dan and I were just on our own record label, we could give ourselves $5 per ticket, and we'd just take the money from the right hand to the left hand, give you a link. If you counted it, we'd get the sale. We'd keep the money from the right hand to the left hand give you a link if you counted it we get the sale we keep the money that's basically what the fuck was going on you know what i mean and it's a it's all based on fear like all of this shit like do you want to be relevant you know that's basically the conversation that is basically

being had not that direct but it's like as an artist you better try to get to get good numbers get that first week up there. And Dan and I were basically like, fuck that. Fuck it. It doesn't even fucking matter. People are going to come to the shows or they're not going to come to the shows. We're going to make records.

People are going to buy them or they're not going to buy them. And I think that it's detrimental to the music industry to pay too close attention to certain metrics, man. The whole system right now with these majors is like signing shit that has the most social media interaction the most streaming and i was like you know what when i was nine years old i bought vanilla ice's ice ice baby and i listened to that shit like i'm not joking like 250 times in a week like like a fucking

idiot like that's who's listening to this shit that's getting a 250 times in a week. Like a fucking idiot. Like that's who's listening to this shit that's getting a billion streams in a month. It's like fucking nine-year-old morons. I like to think that our fans have like, they got like 150 albums that they listen to on a sort of rotation at least, and ours may be one of them a month you know i mean so so it's like it's a different fucking audience you know what i mean it's you look at instagram

and you see these certain people i've never even heard their music they have and they have like 10 million followers yeah the weird thing is that there would be any comparison at all like why why bother comparing well that's exactly right that's exactly right but that's the problem is that there are two different things that play at play here there's the music industry industry itself which is like certain people who work in industry high ups are like we need to sell records we need to we need like this pop producer to work with this writer and this artist, and we need streaming numbers. And then there's certain people, you know, like the Olds Garden, like the Lenny Warnaker or Seymour Stein or, you know, even lots of younger guys, too.

But, you know, they're like, actually, what we're doing is curating art that we really like. And it's either going to sell or it's not going to sell and a lot of the records that we grew up listening to most of them were records made by these kind of insanely eccentric weirdo people right that never sold records but have changed literally changed our lives and like captain beefart being one of them uh you know like uh tom waits has sold some records but still like he's it's a much different type of commercial viable thing. But these artists are why we make music. It has nothing to do with this shit. It's like the difference between the Vogue's,

you know what I mean, and the Fugg's. There's a lot of these comparisons that you can make about what we do in our place in the music industry is to do what we do. And for a while, we were taking part in the mainstream in the music industry is is is to do what we what we do and for a while we were taking part in like the mainstream aspects of music you know i mean we were playing like the mtv movie awards and having these insane weird experiences only because we we hadn't done it

before and we felt like we had to do it and i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't change anything but at this point like i think steering is far away from all that shit is is what we want to do right now yeah there's no reason to lump you in with anything like why why would any you know that's one of the weird things about these award shows right you're lumping all these different musicians together that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other you just all make music check it out it's like we played the mtv movie awards in 2012 we got offered to do it we watched it when we were kids we were in la already it was like whatever Well, check it out. It's like we played the MTV Movie Awards in 2012. We got offered to do it.

We watched it when we were kids. We were in L.A. already. It was like whatever. Aerosmith came out and introduced us. And now I'm thinking like why would they agree to be on the MTV Music Awards? Like what are they going to get from that or whatever? The whole thing was kind of bizarre. I mean it's all really bizarre.

It's like they need to be in the spotlight or or something you know and we were we're just like i think we kind of realized how goofy it was while we were there but we got an insane experience because we hanging out with johnny depp and joe perry and steven tyler and after and this is crazy because after the after we do this song wherever we're out stage but out backstage by the trailers and um i'd like to see steven tyler and joe perry and giant up talking and we walk over because we just want to see what they're talking about and i'm just like i'm looking at the shit they're all wearing the craziest accessories like they're dressed up like you know archetypes of rock stars whatever and they're like talking about, and Steven Tyler and Joe Perry are talking about transport,

how they're going to get their arsenal across state lines. And I was like, what? Like, yeah, man, we can't, we travel with a goddamn arsenal.

I was like, what? Like, yeah. And AR 15s. Like we have fucking grenades. I was like, this is insane, man. Oh my God. I think it's worth it. We're here today just to hear that. I was like, this is insane, man.

Oh my God. I think it's worth it. We're here today just to hear that these guys feel like they need to travel with grenades. But then I was thinking about their, have you ever seen their video game? No. Dude, the Aerosmith video game. I didn't know they had one. Dude, if you watch their video game, after hearing this conversation Dan and I were privy to,

you're like, ah, this makes complete sense could have never made sense to me it's like the terminator arcade game where there's like you know back in the early 90s it's that but it's them it's like a fucking insane you should put the put a clip up of that here we go this is his game yeah this is the place oh my god they're they're on stage there yeah and then it brings up a whole nother thing which is like oh how weird after the bottom after the botacon shit like this is a real fucked up game to look at yeah seriously oh my god right yeah when did this come out though this has got to be old as fuck oh my god that's hilarious so they're in the background playing and then in front of them war seems feasible they just stuck arrowsmith

into a game it's like it's called cocaine psychosis but that's like the worst effort ever they just stuck them and they don't even move good they kidnap them oh no oh hilarious that's part of the game they kidnap him oh my god oh wow this is terrible it's amazing that we back then we're like this is so radical look how good the graphics are you get used to everything that's hilarious steven tyler's the nicest fucking guy ever yeah he's so they were really nice it just like i didn't realize they had to travel with weapons i didn't know they travel with weapons we never discussed that he's such a nice guy though yeah i met him at the ryman in nashville backstage too what a fucking great place that is that is like one of my all time

favorite places yeah so cool you just feel the entertainment in the walls it's like it feels like it's a building

that's been entertained you know what I mean I mean they did the Opry there for how many years I don't know so many people play there it just feels

special every week there's something special going on there. It's so cool. It is cool. You know, it's great that you openly talk about having these panic attacks because there are so many kids that I'm sure who are huge fans of yours who also have panic attacks,

and they can't fucking believe that you guys it with your level of success could still have these little battles you know that we've all had so that's so huge that you're willing to talk about that and say that that i'm telling you that that was definitely going to make an impact on people i you know i mean once you have it like the first time i ever really had a panic attack i had one and then i kind of didn't have another one until this moment on that state on lola palooza but the first time really was in amsterdam on the way from amsterdam to london dan bought some mushrooms and i guess they're illegal there i never i didn't dan bought them and brought them on the

we were traveling in a van at the time and they were giant fresh mushroom not even dried no man it was like a meal and then he bought him he like you guys you should take some you should take some and i was like i ate like the stem and it was massive i mean it was like eating a burrito and after like 20 minutes after 20 30 minutes it's like i don't feel i don't feel anything dan's like i just eat the fucking rest man i don't know i eat the rest of this thing it's massive ass thing and like i just start sweating it smells like a portobello mushroom seeping from my skin and i yell i yell up to the driver i'm like starting to spin out like how do how do you get this to stop he turns around he only wore black and his shades on and i thought i really thought at the time he was like satan he's like drink loads

of beer and i was like what the fuck and then i just like in the back just like fucking like freaking out for like two hours and finally we stop i'm like we got i gotta get the fuck out of this van this is this is in 2003 it's a long time ago you were white knuckling your girlfriend and then we get out and like i think i just think it's the fresh air man i'm like uh we stop at this gas station in belgium and i walk into the bathroom with dan and they're like this woman's like speaking in french like you this woman's speaking in French. It's basically saying, I was like, what the fuck? What's happening, Dan?

It costs money to pee here, bro. And I'm like, what? He's like, I know, man. Is that crazy? And I'm like fucking freaking out. And all I had was like 50 euros, and I put it on the tray. And Dan grabs it and puts it in my pocket and then puts like a nickel there. I'm like, dude, it doesn't cost that much to pee.

And we both start laughing at that moment. And then I turned the edge from that. And then it was an amazing experience. We started being like laughing at like how clean their dumpster was. Even the dumpsters here are clean. It was like bright red. You could eat off it. Yeah, we could eat.

You could really, truly dumpster dive here and be eating a regular meal. But I got that panicky thing right there at the top, and I swear that shit opened it up for me, man. There was no natural light in the back of the van also. All the windows had the really dark, dark tint, black tint. Oh. So we were just in this panic van yeah you need to get outside yeah i remember when the sliding door went open it was like when they went into willie wonka's place yeah all the light came in and yeah and then it seemed like it was crazy because when we got back in the van three fucking hours later

like our driver's like dude we gotta go i said we've been here for 20 minutes he's like it's been three hours of you guys talking about this dumpster and i was like no way so we we get back in and dance dan like out of nowhere his girlfriend i guess maybe had at the time he's like do you want some bubble gum and we've been on tour for a month and i never seen this bag it was like a trash bag full of gumballs and i was like oh my god what the fuck's happening he's like let's listen to some music man and so he put on nwa and i was like we both started laughing i was like it sounded like fisher price music like so plastic and brittle and like this is so bad this is so awful and then he put on captain beefheart safe as milk and it was like the most incredible sounding record i've ever heard it was fucking insane but it was that experience that first opened up me ever experiencing that

like what the fuck's happening like kind of fight or flight but for no reason panic attack thing and i think yeah i i i deal with it mostly but i just uh when i'm on stage i still get them occasionally if i come in too fast are you saying that it was started from that trip it's the first time i ever felt it man wow do you think you broke something in there i just think i took way too much. I'm really sensitive to getting high. It's not in my system. It's not for me. You seem like you could have been

a comic. Have you ever thought about being a comic? I don't think I could. I like bullshitting, though. You say funny shit, man. You have funny observations. Thanks. You have a mean streak i'm dan's i'm dan's personal comic that's basically it yeah yeah he is a comic but yeah that you think that that was the first one and then from then it maybe has opened

up the door and because you had one it makes it easier to have another one? Is that how it works? Well, I was exhausted that day because we were kids partying, for I was. I'd never been to Europe, really. We were in Amsterdam. I smoked weed the night before, which I don't do, and we were drinking.

And I barely got any sleep. So it was a super shitty feeling. So every time I'm basically tired, I'm more prone to that shit and it happens like at the airport you know like the airport to me early morning flights it just always kind of like that was really hectic and like everything's fucking moving around and tired like fuck this is a fucking miserable um and festivals sometimes they're so crowded and like but no i haven't had them i haven't had a problem with them really but the hypnotism shit worked so

yeah it's legit if you can get a good one a good person who can hypnotize you can put you in a state of mind and sort of change your course just give you a little adjustment adjustment in your perception how you look at things it feels like you're're in a little bit of a tunnel. It's very strange, right? It is. It is strange. I think it's like when people go see a life coach, maybe that's what they're looking for. Yeah, hypnotist. Some positive reinforcement.

I think it just gets in there better. It gets into the operating system better than a guy going, what you need to do, Pat, is prioritize. It's like when you're looking at Instagram, someone's like, man, I'm just so happy. I don't know. There's people that kind of have this cult type of mentality on Instagram. There's a whole scene there of self-help. Man, just got to center.

Every one of these kids went to a boarding school and is disappointed in their parents. Giving people advice exclusively is a way to live it's just a strange way to go you know you got to do things too like a lot of things yeah you say it can't just be have dreadlocks well sometimes people think that the message is all that's important that is that is most of what's important but what's important is like but how did you start doing this did you just decide to be a motivational guy and have you done anything else no right out of school motivational guy that seems uh like are you just repeating shit do you really know that much about how to get your act together or are you just kind of you know there's like a lot of repeating There's a lot of repeating shit. Yeah. A lot of repeating shit. And I've repeated it myself. I've like,

I've said things myself that are motivational things that I've heard other people say. And it's, you know, because they're real. It's effective. You can help people.

But if that's all you're doing, it's a little suspect. Yeah, it's also, when someone has a continuous message, it's always the same and it's always positive it makes me really suspect because i'm like i love this self-help guy on the metallica documentary who was offering the lyrics yeah that's the best movie ever made probably about

music it's like it beats final tap it's like if there was a competition i have to come down on some kind of monster it made me actually like the i mean it made me as a fan appreciate those guys in a weird way their dysfunction like they became characters well at one time i'll watch the movie i'll be like oh man like lars is so annoying then i'll watch it again like like I'll still think Lars is annoying, but I still think he's right. I have a different view every time I watch it. Yeah. But ultimately, I end up liking this guy because of it more.

He stepped out in a big way with that Napster thing. It was an odd moment for everyone because everyone was trying to figure out, what is this file sharing thing? How is it going to fit? And then then the music business you guys felt it first like you guys were the big hit more than anything because it's not the same to watch a movie on your tv even if you can download an illegal movie i'm sure it'll have a little bit of a hit but people want to go to the fucking movie theater but with your shit they can once it starts people start sharing things you get just

you just get a file and everybody kind of just assumed that well i mean this is like this new frontier and it's not really stealing you're just copying it's just you're not giving them money for it but you're not really stealing got to this weird sort of and lars was the first guy to say hey fuck you you're stealing like this but it was a weird fight to have because it's you know hindsight it's always 2020 we know what what the internet has become since then it's incredibly difficult to try to keep a wrap on things and to keep things to like keep someone from downloading things like they just get there's so there's if you have songs they get out there you know whereas that Napster thing was the first time this was happening,

and he was the guy who was this really, really wealthy guy who was a huge success saying, don't do this. Like, this is stealing. Well, yeah, it's like David versus the Goliath type of thing. I mean, clearly people shouldn't steal. But is it Metallica's job to tell people that maybe but maybe he maybe they should have gone directly to napster or to their record label but i you know when streaming first started becoming like a real thing we had a talk with a friend of ours who basically encouraged us to look at it and and not do it and i went into

with our manager when we're talking to someone at warner brothers and said we didn't want to do it and they were like kind of outraged and like you can't not do it you can't not do it and um i didn't really know at the time but i found out a couple months later that they they i found out a couple months later because i, they, I found out a couple months later because I, I, I was, I was quoted in Rolling Stone talking shit about like Sean Parker and Spotify. And it, it, what happened is I ended up getting a phone call or email from, from Daniel Eck, the owner of Spotify. And we had lunch together and he's a fucking cool guy.

He's a nice, nice guy, very intelligent. And I, and I really saw his side of it for the first time and he basically without explaining it directly was like you know that he's paying our label to get our music what they do with the money he can't control and you start realizing like that at that moment i realized oh yeah there's some stock being floated to these companies which there was billions of dollars of stock was sent. And the label has no obligation to give you money out of the stream? They gave us like a couple hundred thousand dollars of it out of the billion

because they paid it to us in the way the label does. They paid it as an artist royalty, and they took all these deductions off of it, and it was a made-up number. There's a lot of money in the music industry right now. And the problem is that it's like not, okay, some of my favorite bands for the most part don't have hit songs. They don't get played on K-Rock.

They don't have like a Macarena type shit that's gonna be coming their way. And that's what pays money because they treat almost every stream the same. It's like there be coming their way. And that's what pays money. Because they treat almost every stream the same. There's a royalty rate if you pay for Spotify and there's a royalty rate for if you're listening

on a free service. But what they need to do in my opinion, is they need to say, this guy, Joe listens to music, he has good taste in music, he follows 500 bands, which means that there's no possible way that he's going to be listening to all 500 of those bands in even a six-month period of time. But when he does choose to listen to a song, it's worth like X, like 10X versus this person who's listening to Old Town Road a thousand times a day. You know what I mean?

Because Joe is actually engaging with our thing and not just streaming the song for free. And like a monkey, like a Pavlov, whatever, mouth salivating every time they hear the little Old Town Road, whatever. I look at my Spotify thing, and I'll go months. And I pay for all of them i have like youtube apple whatever i don't have title but that's because they didn't they they gave ownership to like 12 artists and they're like fuck you what the fuck is that just keep

the ownership and pay a higher royalty you fucking cocksuckers you know i mean honestly so i'm like so anyway i look at my spotify i listen to like i listen like 100 songs a month it's barely anything and i'm like the way to really do this that's fair is you take my 10 fucking dollars right and listen to 100 songs that's it because i've got so many ways to listen to music that you listen you take that 10 songs and you give every buddy 10 cents but that's not the way they do it they're like we pay point zero zero zero five six seven cents per stream how could you fucking know what you pay for stream if you're if you're a distribution service do you see what i'm saying yeah i'm giving you ten dollars and you're gonna

take 30 off the top like apple music used to do when you would buy a cd and then you take seven bucks and throw it towards the artists that would make sense to me but they don't they're like they're paying they're keeping all this fucking cash or they're keeping it in a pile and then at the end of the day they're just satiating like you know rihanna's 100 million dollar check she gets every year or you know i mean but i know a lot of artists who who just they get checks for like two dollars and fifty cents for a whole year on a record that normally would sell like 5 or 6 thousand copies but there's no need like you have to

basically be an idiot to buy a CD nowadays you know because it's a digital file that you ultimately could download

from Spotify onto your phone and have it with you forever yeah you know unless you don't have the internet you know

if you're in Alaska or North Dakota, maybe you need to have a CD. So, so few people are printing CDs. Then it boils down to how much of an infrastructure do you need as an artist? How many people do you need to be representing you? How does your stuff get out there? Does it get, I mean, especially with you guys,

doesn't it just get out there? Because, I mean, I just found out about you guys because somebody tweeted it. I'm like, oh, who are these guys? I'm not worried about us, man. It's like the new band's coming out. New band's trying to break it. That's what I'm worried about. It's like, we're fine.

But it bums me out. But I mean, for anybody in the business, how much of an infrastructure do you need in this digital time? You just need someone to figure out how to get it to people i think it i think in a way it's like when we first started our first record deal was with a small label not far from where we are here and the deal was this give us 12 songs pay for the recording yourself we'll master it which is the final process of making a record that costs a couple hundred bucks and we'll send you 50 albums and we'll give you like 12 of the money we make that was it and oh and we're gonna have a 500 marketing budget that was that was that was the deal

you know i mean so we basically i mean we made this record paid for it ourselves and we went on tour um this agent named Ralph Carrera, booked us a tour, like kind of a mercenary agent who would book the label, I think paid him a couple hundred bucks to book us this tour. And it all kind of started steamrolling, you know what I mean? But we had no infrastructure. We had no management. We had no agent.

We had nothing. We just kind of got in a van and started going. And I think in a lot of ways nothing has changed except for that when we got to the second level you know the set like it there was a couple thousand dollars there for us to make a record there was opening slots that you know touring was a little bit different then um but i think we've always kind of done it in a way that was pretty DIY and it's the same way it has to function now the only difference is there's fewer record labels that are going to sit there and give you

$15,000 to make a record and maybe give you $10,000 to help you buy a van and that's the hardest step that's the threshold where things bands are having a hard time getting through you know once you get through there then it's like then you get to where we were for years which is you're on a bigger label you're making records

and no one's paying attention to you the only reason why we ended up getting attention paid to us i think by warner brothers was for our record our six record brothers um uh it was a kind of a heavy time i just turned 30 dan just turned 30 and you know when you turn 30 it feels like you've gotten old you know i mean and like especially in the rock and roll business and we had this good this record i thought was great and i went into went to talk to leo cohen with our manager this will be ours this one of the guys heads of warner brothers and i and i was like we're like that we're the most synced band on warner brothers which is when you get a song on a tv show or a movie or a commercial i think there's

no other band for the last two years that's had as many sinks as we've had but we've never i don't even know who works the radio department at warner brothers and we've been on your label for like four or five years and leo are basically like that fuck he prioritized us like that week and for the first time was like we're gonna work on your band and when that happened that's when the lullapalooza shit that's when radio k-rock everything fucking changed you know it took us six albums and it took us all those syncs, all that shit, all getting called sellouts all the time for a while. Forgiving our songs. Who's calling you sellouts? The same dudes that were at our first shows with their arms crossed.

Sellout's a funny one. You're still doing the same music, stupid. It's the same music. I mean the same music i mean it's it's not i think that it's different i think i think that it for this type of thing it comes from that idea that like uh maybe like oh that band like there i liked them better when it was like my secret my friends and i don't want to share it with this dude that's why like it's dangerous to have your song in certain things like if your song comes on in walgreens you better watch out man like that's a red flag because we've had opportunities to have our songs sent to like top 40 radio and um there was this

thing where like if we if we won record of the year for lonely boy warner brothers was going to service that song to top 40 it would have never probably been a hit but if we would have won that grammy it could have fucked our whole band up i've seen it happen with lots of bands like you just kind of it's just like you become like play school level yeah but do you really think that you guys would change just i think you know dude it it. We would have changed, but the thing is, you start accessing... You start acquiring a fan base that's more fickle and maybe more annoying. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, I bet you as a Chicago Cubs fan in 2017 was like, fuck this World Series shit.

Every motherfucker wearing a fucking Cubs hat. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. And I know exactly what that would feel like. It's probably the same thing. It's like someone's going in there to get like, someone's going to get shaving cream. And this band that used to play it, like the fucking Casbah in San Diego is playing while they're checking out. They're probably like, fuck this.

Fuck this. Listen, if you guys put out the same music that you put out in that time period, it wouldn't have mattered. Your music is, it's you guys. You know? it's you guys you know I mean it's not it's even though you've

gone experimental and you've done different styles of songs and some of them feel more bluesy some of them feel more

it's like it's still Black Keys if you guys just did that it wouldn't matter what you were on nobody gives a shit if you really do give a shit fuck them

I had a big realization like a couple years ago I did this record this guy from Cleveland, Ohio, named Glenn Schwartz, this guitar player. I used to go see Glenn when I was in high school, when I was 17. He played at this place called Hoople's in Cleveland, Ohio. It was just a tiny little place. He was the original guitar player in the James Gang.

He was the original guitar player in the James gang. So he, like, Joe Walsh says he first saw him in, like, 65 or something. And he was, like, on somebody's shoulders in purple bell bottoms, no shirt, playing electric guitar solo. And he said, Joe Walsh said, that guy made me want to play electric guitar. Wow. You know? And this guy, I used to go see him all the time. And he would these songs which happened to be religious which is just like another story but it sounded like cream crazy anyway two years ago i had him at the studio and um it was all these memories were flooding

back of all this like heavy electric guitar and seeing link ray in cleveland ohio and playing in the basement with pat and it was all at the same time and all of the sounds from the first black keys records were coming out of this he's almost like 80 years old playing this fiery electric guitar and it was just like it's who he was and he helped me become who i am and as soon as I finished that record I called Pat and we made this this new one and it was with that spirit it was like and it was just the two of us and we never even talked about working with it we didn't even talk about it we just put it in the books and we got together because I knew that we I always know no matter what happens Pat and I can make music because

that's just who we are we don't even have to think about it whatever the fuck you're doing keep doing it exactly the same way what you've done is i mean you some of my favorite workout music of all time favorite driving playing music sinister kids one of my favorite right about to get on stage songs that's cool that's one of my favorites too i love that song that's that's the funny thing is like when you start look like sometimes i just nerd out and i start not like when i'm just like sitting at home i'll look at like play counts of songs that one is one of those songs that when we record like this is one of our best songs and it's it was one of the least purchased least streamed songs and it's like it's like but it's funny i think it's one of the least purchased, least streamed songs. And it's like, but it's funny.

I think it's one of Dan's favorites, too. It's like, it's a fucking great song. Most of the stuff that, you know, that's what's important about music. It's just to do what you are good at, what you feel, what you connect to. And I think that, I guess that's ultimately what I'm trying to say, is that it's always been this way where there's always been this noise of annoying, bad kind of mainstream music. And the problem is that because everything is getting streamed on the same platform, there's less independent record stores. There's no college music journal.

Everything's kind of compared to it. record stores there's less there's no college music journal there's not there everything's kind of compared to it's like you know you listen to like the new like purple mountains record um which is a guy who unfortunately passed away this summer friends of ours david berman i mean i think it's maybe his greatest work right and the record has a maybe a million streams or something. And compared to whatever Drake is doing, it gets lost. It's completely lost. And I think that there needs to be a better way to highlight this stuff. It's still crazy to me that there isn't a website that I can go to as a crazy music fan that I think is curating music

that I actually want to hear. And we both have really open minds when it comes to music, but there isn't one thing that's just highlighting stuff from the underground, from mid-level rock bands. Have you ever thought about doing something?

We've talked about it. You know how Rollins does it? Rollins does, what does he do every Sunday? He's got a weekly show where he picks all the music, all obscure, cool shit, weird old Stooges songs, whatever he wants. We both have radio shows on Sirius Radio currently.

Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't think many people actually even listen to that uh the thing about the serious thing you have to listen to it when it comes on you know if you have it on something where people can just access it at any time it's hard it's also hard because i think that they're part of the problem actually serious yeah like the way that they've programmed the four or five rock channels like there's a channel on there called the spectrum dan has a show on there and um Spectrum. Dan has a show on there. And it's like the AAA channel,

which would be like KCRW here or whatever. Like the morning becomes eclectic. I'm trying to think what song it was exactly that I heard, but they started tapping in. And this should be a format that's highlighting, I think, music that's current a format that's highlighting like uh you know i think music that's current music that's coming out you know i mean like and they were playing like a couple u2 songs on there the other day i'm like this is a band that plays the rose bowl why the

fuck are you playing them on the fucking triple a you fucking asshole you know i mean like seriously yeah and then i go and i look to the alternative station and the alternative station is playing like pop music you know i mean like like literally pop music um and then you go to the alternative channel and they're playing like five or six artists or the indie channel there's like there isn't there's like almost there's i don't know there's like under representation of of of uh i mean let me put it this way i went to france this summer for a month uh i we i always wanted to take this trip my family and i we went to the south of france rented a car and i decided i didn't even hook my phone up to the car for weeks i just right when i turned it on i scanned the radio and i heard a song I liked. I was like, what the fuck is that? On this channel called Radio Nova, which is a nationwide, not digital, terrestrial station in France.

I heard this song. I was like, what is that, man? I was like, oh, man, that's like a new song by Damon Albarn from Blur from a record called Africa Express. I never heard. It's amazing, this song. I was like, how is that not played anywhere in America? I listened to this channel every day for the whole trip, and every single day, I heard maybe two songs in like 21 days that I knew.

It was all new. It was all current. Some of it was classic, but even the classic stuff, it was like a Janis Joplin song I'd never heard. It was like true. I felt like I entered a different dimension. And then I came back to the U.S. and I put on my satellite radio. I was like, why am I hearing the same fucking bullshit?

There's so much good shit out there. And even when I go to the algorithm, my algorithm on a, I was sitting with this guy named John Vanderslice the other day, who's a well-known indie producer. We were looking at our algorithms, our predetermined Spotify thing. And every single thing was something that I had listened to already, except for one artist.

And it was something I didn't even care for. Like, with all the technology, with all the ways to hear all the millions of songs on Spotify, they still haven't figured out how to satiate someone's desire to hear new music. Do you know? Do you think it's because they try to program those those channels strictly to be commercially viable

they just want to make money from it and they feel like if they put you two or an old elton john song on it you're flipping through the channels you'll stay on it even if it doesn't match the format that you're looking for i think i think that they've gotten their ass so far into metrics and statistics that they've stopped any sort of actual curation using taste. And the only way you get to something worthwhile is through taste. It's really the opposite process that should take place. It should be you build the art up and then the business files behind it. But instead, it's like you have this giant business that you have to keep feeding so you just keep you have to sell more and have as many channels

that are as commercially viable as possible whatever our numbers man i've had a show on that channel on that i've had a show on that with that company for five years i do it for free i don't get paid five years every month i had this one artist i worked with i was like i really think you should consider this for something that you might want to put on a playlist really like this isn't some payola shit it's been five years i've i like and they're like she doesn't have the social media numbers we're looking for i think you know what that means that you're what you're adding is just some dumb ass that's good at social media like i mean yes i mean that's that if that's what qualifies you to get on the radio then we're all fucked and i think they should have a better social media so they don't

have to think about that so when they find a new artist that's great you pump up their social media with your social media and then you put them on your network and people tune in and if you have a trustworthy list of people if you continue to recommend really good artists, they go, oh, holy shit. Well, I think... It's got good taste. I think that you're not... I think that the social media thing is a lot of it...

I mean, I think it's fake. The numbers that the people have? I think the numbers are fake. I think that it... You know, there's a couple of these kind of like... I don't want to name names. I don't want to talk shit about it. couple of these like, kind of like, I don't know, I don't want to name names, I don't want to talk shit about it, but it's like,

it's like this form of music that I, it's like pop, rap, thing, that it's always like some white dude with tattoos all over his fucking face, that just came out of nowhere, and like there, it's always like,

there's social media, it's always like, man, I've cleaned up my act i'm so glad to be alive and bringing new music to you soon but that never had a hit and but like they have like 500 000 likes on this shit you're gonna look at who's liking it it's all like mindless kids you know i mean not to say that that's bad but i'm saying like you can't as an adult like program and radio station look at that and be like, this means something.

You know what I mean? This means we have to put this music on. I mean, honestly, if you go back to 1991, right, to when Nirvana's Nevermind came out, like, they didn't have – the equivalent of social media shit, they didn't have shit going on. They had a fucking song that just knocked everybody across the fucking face. And because the programmers are looking at these other dumb metrics yeah they're not going to get that song across i mean like billy eilish i think thing is pretty cool actually and uh but i think there's a billy eilish to be found every month you know i mean it's not that there's so much good music and to go to have to go to france to hear american music on the radio is is insane well

why don't you curate something like this and put it on the internet it seems like a simple solution you have such like strong tastes and you have a love for this kind of music and you're already doing it on sirius for zero money that's why we're here joe because we need someone to give us a the opportunity well young jamie's gonna he'll help you. We'll get it all set up. Hey, speaking of young Jamie, we're playing a festival in Vegas on Saturday.

Oh, shit. And Little Wayne is going on before us. Oh, shit. Which isn't the first time that's happened.

That's a good story. We'll tell you. Do you like him? Is he a nice guy? Yeah. I've never met him personally, but his music's cool. But we've got Big Wayne

to come out with us right afterward. Oh, okay. Good move. Wayne Newton. Oh, no shit. Yeah. In Vegas.

We got Lil Wayne before us. We have to have Big Wayne with us. So we booked... Now, Wayne Newton... Is he going to sing a song? He's going to sing Lonely Boy. Don't be ashamed. Lonely Boy?

Yeah. Holy shit. Holy shit. So you should time your psychedelics to be peaking right about then. Dude, that sounds amazing. 1240 AM. That sounds amazing. I know.

Oh, my God. We played this festival with Lil Wayne. It was called the Virgin Mobile Fest, and it was a free fest. Yeah, in Baltimore. Yeah, tickets were free. They paid bands well and everything. The Stooges played. We got to hang out with the Stooges, which was amazing because we're backstage.

And the Ashton brothers are sitting there chain smoking, arguing about how to change a catalytic converter. And I'm like, this is so fucking Detroit, man. This is amazing. And they're so real. I was like, this is fucking sick. I was like, fuck, man. I'm amazing. And they're so real. I was like, this is fucking so. I was like, fuck, man.

I'm just in awe of this shit. And then a couple hours later, Lil Wayne's supposed to go on the same stage as us. Right before us. Right before us. And the stage manager's like, absolutely no buses

near the stage. Because it was a horse track. It was like a well-manicured horse track. You couldn't pull a bus on the track. So we had to park our shit way across across the field or whatever and we're we go over on the on the golf cart whatever and he's well wayne's supposed to be done he's not even there yet and we're like

what the fuck's happening and then so he shows up uh the bus rolls up right to the stage, right across the track. Giant, giant dents in the track. And him and, I'm not joking, 30 of his friends get off the bus probably and just immediately go right to the stage. Everybody except for Lil Wayne. Music starts playing from a CD player. And they play a whole set. They play a whole set.

And we're supposed to be on it this time. So we're like looking at the clock like our set's almost done and they're still playing. Like what the fuck's happening? And then it all ends with him getting an electric guitar and I don't even know what the fuck he was doing but it wasn't playing it.

But it was loud and it was like people were, I think he thought that he could pretend to be a guitar player at a festival and people would understand it like would just not know that it wasn't good and i was just like this is fucking crazy like and kind of half the crowd kind of bought it i'm like which is also good for my anxiety which is like you don't even have to be good anymore at guitar. But then the, we're like, you know, we're like,

this, our sets, what time do we, what do we do now? The stage manager's like, well, obviously you're going to get paid. And we're like,

obviously. And like, well, you need to play a full set or three songs. I'm like, no one paid for a ticket. We're playing three songs. Motherfuckers, we're out of here

so maybe he does that again this time so if he does you might get there and only see us play Lonely Boy with Wayne Newton which would be worth

the cost of admission why don't you guys have him go on later doesn't that make more sense because we have to headline for our egos I understand I'd probably switch that around

i'd take the hit head to denver earlier it just seems like you're gonna wait you're just gonna wait do a lot of waiting we should i should say man i agree yeah i mean i don't want to go on 11 15 he's a huge he just he woke up at five this morning what's he gonna do a couple days he's a huge act too it's not like he can't headline things. Well, you know, he just left the Blink-182 tour, I read, because people don't, at the arena shows, obviously, people don't all get there for the support band. Oh.

So he was playing like half full room and I think left. We could give him a full room, man. Yeah. I'll take that. I'll take that hit because we could go play Blackjack for an hour. Wayne Newton might not be available, though. Who set that tour up? That festival?

Yeah. Oh, the Blink-182 thing? Yeah. Who set it up with you guys? What? What tour? I mean, the thing you're doing, the show you're doing. It's a festival, so it's curated by a talent buyer,

usually in connection with like AEG or Live Nation. It just seems an odd pairing. Yeah, festivals now are odd. I mean, I think it's cool to have an odd pairing. And it's like I said, 11 years ago, we had the same pairing with Lil Wayne. But I do think the festival thing has gotten a little bit. Festivals are kind of for younger people.

So because of that, there's a lot more pop kind of stuff. I think we're one of the few rock bands playing the whole festival, really. I mean, one of the few bands with a drum set, that's for sure. It's a strange time, man. Do you enjoy these festivals? I mean, why do you guys do them at this point? Do you feel like... I don't think we're going to do that many coming up.

I think this might be one of the last ones we do for a while. Because I would just think at this point, if I was you guys, I just ones we do for a while. Because I would just think at this point, if I was you guys, I just want to do my own shit. Well, we pulled out of Woodstock. For that reason. For that reason.

Because we didn't want that to be our first show back in four and a half years. It was more money than we'd ever been paid for a show at our age. It was like, what the,

what, are you sure you want to, what, what, what, what, and I was like, cancel it. We had been real. It took him four days of him checking, like the are you sure you want to cancel it we had it took him four days of him checking like are you sure we're like wow cancel it it's a it's not gonna be cool b i don't

want to play that as our first show back and he's like well there's a good chance it's gonna get canceled and if you cancel it you're not gonna. I was like, why would we want to headline a festival that gets canceled? Like, it makes us look like we can't. Is this your agent? Yes. That's hilarious. They're trying to get you paid

for something that might get canceled. That is hilarious. And I was like, I don't feel comfortable taking money like that. Pat, we got a guarantee. We got a guarantee, Pat. That's hilarious.

Yeah. Which year was this? Which year would start? This one. This one. This one. Okay. Be Real showed us footage of the one that he was at, which was how many years ago? Quite a few.

I saw him there. Insane. Did you see that? I saw that performance. I was there with my brother. And they stole his sneakers? He crowd surfed and they took his shoes? Yeah.

People came to different shows with his shoes and he signed them. I saw third base. I saw third base. Wow. I saw, it was pretty wild. and i ended in flames it looks like chaos there's too many people you got a helicopter folks in it's like the all the cars are blocking the highway like this is a shit show do they do it the same way i just remember uh corn headline one, and it was just like a sea of fucking people, and it was so dark, and it was like ominous. You know what I mean?

It was just fucking wild. And they all had that haircut that went on back then where you'd shave the sides and the back, and then pull the top back. You know that? A lot of angst. And the metal ball necklaces. Metal ball necklaces? I missed that one.

It was like, I don't know, ball bearings. Do you know this one? Oh, yeah, sure, ball bearings. That's big in Akron, at least. I worked at a record store when that Korn record came out in 1999, and it's when I first really got a glimpse at how fucked we are. There's like a Modest Mouse record had come out, and I sold like two or three copies of it,

and there were just like droves of morons coming in. It's like, I need that new Korn record. We had boxes upon boxes. Like, fuck, man. We're fucked. And I went into the bathroom, and I was like, and thinking about this in the bathroom, that place was just covered in pornography.

And I was like like this is like so fucked up and then the movie idiocracy came out i was like this is we're fucking living in this shit already and then the last five years have happened i was like we're fucking so deep into this shit man so deep yeah it's happening at the same time they're they're cracking the egg that is artificial intelligence trying to get that fucking thing to hatch. Dude, they need it for certain areas. I went to this rural county fair outside of Nashville a couple weeks ago because my wife wanted to take our baby to see the little piglets and stuff. So we go into that, like the 4-H kind of area,

and it's cute and like real motherfuckers who work their asses off in there but then we go into the actual fair part where and it is these corn these people i sold corn records to like 20 years ago are now there and dude i i bought okay they had lemonade right which is basically like crunchy like crunchy lemonade there's so much sugar in this shit like everyone's getting like diabetes on the spot. I ordered three large lemonades. They're $6 a piece. I gave the woman a $20 bill,

and she gives me back 15 bucks and starts talking to me. As she's doing this, she's talking about, I'm not joking, Wheel of Fortune, just to no one. I, I'm not joking, Wheel of Fortune. Just to no one. And I'm like, this shit.

Oh, my God. I asked Michelle. I was like, Michelle, what do I do? Do I give her? She's like, don't correct this shit. It's going to be way too complicated. Just take it as like, just take the money. Don't feel guilty.

Oh, my God. You're going to embarrass her. She doesn't even know what's happening. She's talking about fucking Vanna White. And it's like fuck and i looked around like man oh there's a lot of fucking people on pills in this country or something oh yeah and it's like and then that's where i was like i started going this rant on the way home my baby's trying to sleep i'm like how is bernie sanders talking about paying back college loans when there's people who don't have a middle school or high

school education you know i mean these a lot of this comes down to just fucking education you know i mean and i was like that's a really weird way to talk about getting you know spending tax dollars i think is on paying back college loans well i think it just wants to free people from debt the the problem with college loans is people sign up for them when you're young and dumb and you don't exactly know what you're doing. And we're getting to a point in our life where senior citizens. We knew that we needed to drop out because we wouldn't get a fucking job from Akron University's philosophy department. Yeah, we started the band with debt. We both had debt from school.

We both had debt. Almost everybody does. I actually went to this art school for a minute. They let recruiters come into the fucking high schools. It seems criminal to me. It's kind of weaselly. They're talking you into something. Check it out.

I went to this school. Maybe a good thing for you. I went to this school for two quarters called the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. I didn't know that it wasn't accredited. I didn't know shit. They recruited me and I couldn't get into any art school. I had horrible grades in math. So I tested into like four years of remedial math.

So I was like, I don't want to fucking do that. I like photography or whatever. And after two quarters, I had a teacher who just like came up to me in the morning, like after a 10 o'clock or 1030 class class or whatever, like, reeked of whiskey and he said, he's like, I need to talk to you. And he busted out

his portfolio, which is all, at this point, this is like 1998, this shit's from the mid-70s, you know, dusty. All the colors are faded.

He's like, do you want to do this with your life? And it's photographs of cupboards, cabinets. He's like, I photographed the cabinets.

You, get the fuck out of here, kid. Basically. Oh, my God. He's like, this degree is meaningless. It's unaccredited. You want to fucking be loading cameras the rest of your fucking life? He's like, you're the only one in here that gives a fuck. And I'm like, are you fucking serious?

He's like, I'm fucking serious. And I went home, and I was like, Dad, I think I made a mistake. And the school was like $8,000 a quarter. It was fucking expensive. Whoa. Oh, wow. And I dropped out. So then I drop out

and I had this whole other experience. But fast forward to 2014, we're on tour. We're about to go to Pittsburgh. I was talking to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. They're like, and I'm like, oh yeah, man, I love Pittsburgh.

From Akron, two hours away. I actually used to live there. I went to this school. Actually, it's one of the biggest scams of all fucking time. And they're like, what school? Art Institute of Pittsburgh. And it became local news for weeks. So I just did a pre-tour interview with the same writer a couple weeks ago.

He's like, hey, man, remember that interview we did about, and you were talking about talking shit on the Art Institute of Pittsburgh? I was like, yeah. He's like, they went out of business. And literally, they kind of hold you accountable for it. And I'm like, well, how does a college go out of business? Because they're scamming fucking kids. It was a scam. A lot of colleges are fucking scammed.

You know what I mean? I know I had a relative who was going to, I've paid for a lot of fucking liberal arts schools. You would be surprised how much I've paid for. I never went to a school. I help out family members and shit. I paid for a year at Oberlin, which is not fucking cheap. You know what I mean?

I should get a fucking honorary degree from this shit. I've paid for this shit, but I don't have a fucking education. I got asked to pay for some of uh lewis and clark you know and fucking sixty thousand dollar a year school in portland man and a lot there's a school called oberlin liberal super liberal arts school really cool radio station a lot of cool people go to the conservatory you know i mean a very liberal school and dan are pretty liberal motherfuckers you know and um and it's not far from akron it's close so we i would drive to orbelin they had good shows there yeah 60 miles my girlfriend went there at the time and i would go see concerts and all kinds of shit but

every time i would go there like all these kids that were like from new york city rich kids from new york or whatever big oh man i was i would express an opinion about something uh and they're like man you're just a townie dude like just a townie i'm like fuck you motherfucker like the fuck who the fuck are you you just have your parents have a bigger bank account than mine that's the only difference you fucking asshole and i don't feel bad that you don't have a job after you have a fucking degree here you fucking dick like i don't this is so specific i mean i'm serious i don't feel bad that you don't have a job after a college going to college i was like i was like what i mean i don't know i was like fully prepared to when i dropped out of school if the black keys thing hadn't worked start a lawn care business i don't know wash people's fucking windows i don't really know i wasn't gonna write papers i wasn't gonna write academic papers i knew that much

believe it or not this is a tour basically this is what you guys do yeah, man. Dude, you get wound up. Oh, yeah, dude. You get wound up over nothing. I don't mean it, though. I don't mean it, dude. My stepmom or my stepdaughter has her friends over, right? And I'm like, and I was like, she had her birthday party. She had three of her friends over. They're all 14.

And they were over for two hours already it was like beautiful day in the summertime and like uh i go up into their room and there's no sound i'm like they're all on their devices and i'm like you guys need to give me your fucking devices get get out of the room i'm like so jacked up like sergeantlaughter and I'm like as I'm mad I'm like I don't mean to sound this irritated I don't know why I do I just don't mean

to sound that irritated I really I really don't care as much as I sound but we need I need to show you that there's other stuff to do

and you guys should be hanging out and then like it was weird because I was telling him like you know when I was a kid we used to watch

Troll 2 and like we would have sleepover watch Troll 2 and make fun of it Troll 2 the movie? the movie yeah so I'm like I go up there

like late at night like morning they're all watching Troll 2 but the thing is like they're deep into the movie I'm like oh my god we always turned it off

after the first hour you guys don't I forgot to tell you you guys are gonna warp your brains watching all of Troll 2. I've never seen Troll 2. I only saw Troll 1.

What's the difference? Well, see, there is a movie, I think, called Troll, but it's not related. They're not related? No, Troll 2 isn't related. How is that possible? Imagine, like, there's a Troll 1, and Troll 1 I'm going to call my movie Troll 2 But hey, Troll's my movie No, no, no, it's about trolls

I could be wrong I could be wrong But I really believe I really believe Troll 2 isn't related to Troll 1 at all That is a hilarious thing If that's true That is a hilarious thing to do to somebody I don't think that Troll 1 even exists actually

Really? Yeah How is there only Troll 2? I don't know, butroll 1 even exists, actually. Really? Yeah. How is there only Troll 2? I don't know, but this is a big thing, actually. Is that a real screenshot? Yeah, yeah, this is a huge thing. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, that is so goofy looking.

Well, I kind of, you know, there's this video store when we were kids. Videos were a big deal for us, actually. Oh, yeah, Highland Square Video. Jamie, find out if there's a Troll 1. Because if there's only a Troll 2, somehow or another it makes it even more magical.

I don't think there's a Troll 1, man. Search Troll 1. It just doesn't. Maybe this one, 1986? No. It's not related, though, man. No.

But there was a movie about these giant trolls. Or was it? It's like Leonard Part 6. There's a Leonard Part 5 or 4, 3, or 2, 1. six there's a leonard part five or four three or two one but that's hilarious it's called troll two there was one movie i want to say it was a foreign movie that was really ridiculous about these giant trolls a few years back and it was pretty stupid too i thought this was it this is a different one well that's back in the time when like things were

made that were horrible, and it was almost like people didn't realize how bad they were. Oh, look at this. It has no real connection to the original troll. Which is this troll in 1986. This is not the one that I saw. I saw some other one. The trolls were giant.

They were as big as trees. They were in the distance. It's a revelation. Something about great, movies though that's if they're fun well you know how like the secret knowledge of things like videos getting passed around before youtube and it's so different the music was the same way it's like you get absolutely this weird record would come across like the first like mad science uh mad professor dub record which you would never find in akron anywhere you get like a dub copy of that but it was like that with videos too like jessico white yeah jessico white yeah jessico white yeah pat yeah were you the first one to show me that yeah

or steve bannock was that fucking documentary the wild and wonderful whites of west virginia holy shit dude i've never seen it. But while they were making that, we knew someone who was in touch with Jesco. Because we were into Jesco based on that PBS thing from the early 90s. We've got four track recordings where we're basically quoting lines from the original documentary. We were watching this stuff in like 95, 96. Look at them. Yeah, well, check it out we we were playing our first show at the

rhyman and our very first show at the mother church at the mother church of country music we we we had we had jesco come down from west virginia and dance and he got so fucking drunk there's video he got shit hammered he took his shirt off started twiddling his nipples he started faking master and then his sister was dragging him off stage no one since hank williams look at that oh i've never seen that yeah he got he literally got thrown out the back door with his shoes fell off but they were his grandfather's yeah and then like someone accused us of stealing the shoes i was like the dude fucking lost his shoes steal shoes did you have interactions with him or did it just go on i spoke to him a little bit but you guys organized this oh yeah didn't you want to say hi to him

i said hi to him oh you did oh yeah he didn't pat i didn't because by the time uh he was there by the time he i saw him he the time I saw him, he was wasted. He was wild-eyed. Wild-eyed. Yeah, it was like for real. Sometimes the joke just gets, oh, that's not even. The joke gets too real. I thought he was coming to actually tap and do his shit, but he was just so shit-faced he couldn't do it.

Well, I recommended that movie to somebody, and they watched it, and he was like, hey, man, why the fuck did you make me watch that? Yeah, what's wrong with you? Those people live in hell. I try to show people that, like, oh, yeah, this people, like, you know, some people will be like, why the fuck would you watch a movie like that? How could you say that's an influence on you? I don't know.

I don't know. West Virginia is a strange place, man, and those people that are, you know, living in trailers and doing a lot of pills, and there's like entire communities have zero hope and insanely poor. That's one of my favorite states. It's so beautiful there. It's gorgeous. The New River is beautiful.

I dated a girl who lived right there in Steubenville, right on the Dean Martin Highway. And, man, it was so pretty. She lived in Ohio and could see Pennsylvania and West Virginia across the river from her front porch. So pretty. There's something kind of magical about that state, actually. You go in there and you're like, oh, yeah, this is fucking cool. There's these weird diners. You know, the thing is, it's like there's no industry,

so people don't have jobs, obviously. Then they also, if they own property, the property is completely worthless. It's like a lot of America is like that. People tend to forget. A lot of people... We're so used to seeing it.

I mean, we grew up in Akron. We grew up in Akron. Where the industry... I mean, we have those big money like mansions that are just vacant now you know yeah when I'm in like anywhere including at home in Nashville I'm like fuck the three million dollars for that fucking house it's like you could buy the whole fucking city block in Akron three million dollars there's a house for sale in Akron right now that was the co-founder of Goodyear Tires Mansion

it's 1.7 million it's like 18,000 square feet it's fucking insane wow yeah and there's a three bedroom apartment around the corner from our hotel in Santa Monica what would you take?

same price one of them's 100 acres one of them is made out of all materials you can get at home depot one of them's hand-carved woodwork i'm still surprised that more people haven't left the big cities and moved into places more people working virtually i don't know why they haven't we never i mean i never moved to the big city really nashville's big city i've ever lived in nashville's not a big city no but it's uh it's got a good size there's plenty of folks yeah there's plenty of people it's a cool city it feels like the same size to me as cleveland or detroit i know it's slightly bigger uh population wise but footprint wise it's smaller i think you drive through cleveland it

takes a long time that's a long if you're going lengthwise at least, it's smaller, I think. You drive through Cleveland, it takes a long time. That's a long, if you're going lengthwise, at least. Otherwise, it's like really short. It's like two miles wide. It's like 30 miles long. But growing up in Akron, and you guys had to feel like you were on the outside of the music business, right? Like the business itself was in Nashville and L.A. and New York. And growing up in a town, do you think there's an advantage?

Well, we did, but oddly, Pat and I had a connection to the real music business, both in our family. Oh. My cousin was Robert Quine, a guitar player, who played with Lou Reed and Richard Hell and the Voidoids, one of the first punk guitar players, really influential, and Pat's uncle's Ralph Carney, saxophone player who played on all the Tom Waits records, B-52 records, all kinds of records.

So it was weird. And these guys weren't financially successful, but they were critically lauded kind of individuals. They were professional musicians on records, and it was just odd. So we grew up around the block from each other so what we wanted we looked at that and we're like the idea of making a record

that's all we wanted to do was make a record by the time we were selling 150, 200 seat rooms we were like we fucking made it this is it, this is fucking awesome this is what we wanted and then we would be like what if we try to sell out the 400-seat room?

What if, you know, it would just kind of slowly went. And then finally we got to this point where we were like, well, what if we try to play Madison Square Garden? And our manager was like, yeah, you could do it. And we're like, well, let's do it. And then we did two nights there. And that's literally what started from playing our tour history in Brooklyn. Or in New York. We opened for a ska band on a Monday night in Brooklyn for $50.

We drove all the way from Akron to get there. Eight hours each way. Made $50. That was our first show in New York. Wow. Yeah, that to the fucking Barclays or whatever. But it was all like, because it was like, honestly,

when we got to the point when we were playing at Troubadour, I was like, we fucking have done it. We fucking got there. And they're like, well, there's another venue down the road. A little bit bigger. Well, it's always your agent.

Yeah, it's another venue. Well, that's why someone who doesn't understand anxiety is never gonna understand how a person like you with all that success could still get weirded out do you know i mean that's that's what makes it interesting like the the managing of the mind you know i mean uh dan and i are both pretty confident but we're also but we're not like we like... I think you're only as good as your last show, really. You're only as good as your last record. You can't just skate by under shit.

Yeah. And we all knew bands growing up that kind of did, right? They had a couple of good albums, and then things kind of went off the rails. Dude, my favorite band growing up was Devo, because they're from Akron, and they're like this different kind of crazy band, punk band. There is something special about Akron, though. Yeah, there is. Something special about Ohio.

Yeah. But you watch a band like Devo, though, I was going to say get to L.A. and whatever happened there, the change that happened. ever happened there the change that happened and um there's something i mean that's been something that dan i've been i mean i think actively trying to avoid is that that kind of thing you know um but yeah that's like i go home to akron i fully get i fully accept and know that i'm gonna get made fun of for certain things i'm not i I'm going to, like a real individual, get my shit thrown at me by my friends, and they're going to make fun of me for whatever. Rightfully so.

But yeah, Akron, I mean, Ohio and the Midwest, it's an inspiring place because it kind of is a vacuum, and the people who are operating there, like 99% of them are operating just because they have no other choice and they love doing what they're doing music-wise. You go to New York the first time and it's like the smallest little band

has a connection to the biggest producer. It's like that here too. That's true. People like a little, like a group, anytime there's like four teenagers too you know and that's why like it's like that's true people like a little like a group anytime there's like four teenagers playing music together

here like ah A&R come talk ah got it we're gonna give you a big deal

and get you on MTV it never fucking works out I mean it's like think about the amount of fucking bands that have come from Los Angeles how many great rock and roll bands

have come from LA I mean seriously it's a fucking mean seriously it's a massive city it's the biggest county in the country the music industry is here and the take the last 20 years of great bands from los angeles you wouldn't have a long list same with new york city um you know if you go the last 40 years the list doesn't grow that much do you think it's better that's what that much. Do you think it's better?

That's what I'm saying. Do you think it's better to be on the outside? Do you think it's better to be in a city where you're in kind of a small town? Here's what I think is best. I think if you can really integrate with the music industry, peripherally from the outside, it's always best. How so?

What do you mean? Like if you end up signing a major label like look we almost signed we got some offers early on to sign to major labels early on and we did not do it mostly because the like the they kept we kept being strung along like the contract will be there in a week a week would pass it wouldn't show up two weeks to pass we call it'll be there next week finally we were like fuck this we realized at the age of 22 we realized if we signed this shit and they can't get a contract to us to even look at in six weeks if we make a record there's we're gonna be so fucking log jammed it's like we're never gonna be able to do this

shit so we we took the gamble and we signed with the small indie and just kept fucking going. And when we finally went to a major, it was on a subsidiary of a major with a really supportive president, and we were kind of on the outside still, even though we were inside, we were on the outside. And we were able to do our thing. We've never had an A&R guy sit around and tell us to speed a song up or whatever. But the problem is, if you get in

without having some of those boxes ticked and you get in you sign a big big record deal off the bat some fucking dumbass who has a communications degree from like fucking pepperdine is gonna be sitting down next to you be like i think the hi-hat's too loud bro i mean k-rock can't play that the drums are this guy doesn't know he's talking about you know i mean and like that's that right there when you get those notes coming from some dude that's K-Rock can't play that. The drums aren't, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. You know what I mean? And like that's, that right there when you get those notes coming from some dude

that's your A&R guy that doesn't really know what he's doing. I mean, there are good A&R guys, but most of them are these types of dudes. Yeah.

And they'll be like, yeah, man, like, and it's basically what they are doing right then when they're telling, they're getting in your head

and be like, you gotta change the hi-hat on the mix, man. What they're saying is, when this record fucking fails, and I can't deliver any sort of fandom to you, that I'm going to say that you turned the hi-hat down too low. Or I turned the hi-hat, you didn't turn it down low enough.

There's all cop-outs everywhere. And the only way to get through that is to, we learned how to make records ourselves in a basement. We had a tape machine, a $100 tape machine, and Radio Shack microphones, and we recorded our first record like that. We did our second record like that, our third record like that, our fourth record like that.

And finally, we went into the studio at Danger Mouse, and we knew how to run a mixing desk. You know what I mean? We knew what we liked. So if someone came in that wasn't Danger Mouse and was like this, or one of the mixing engineers we've worked with, if someone came in and said,

the kick drum sounds like shit, we'd be like, fuck off. We know what a kick drum can sound like. We've been doing this. And I think basically basically if you can spend the time get the time and get the that's why that's why like back in the day it's like you know a record deal a record a band takes years to develop you know i mean it took us it took us eight years before we got us on the radio of actively making records and touring

um and a lot of this stuff set up with labels where they want a hit on the second record. I'm married to a woman who sold millions and millions of albums of songs that she wrote. And when she turned in an Americana record,

Warner Brothers gave her such the runaround, they shelved the record that cost 800 grand to make because they said there wasn't any hits on it that's that's no way to be an artist do you know what i mean yeah and so we've just always avoided that so they shelved the record they just didn't even bother trying to release it to cut their losses no man and then they charged her for it and then the dropper i mean that's the that's that's why so they shelve it they never

release it yeah they've never released it. And they just drop her. Yeah, dude. That's how they do this shit. The archives of these labels are filled up with shit that's been shelved. Really? Hell yeah, man. I don't know the business. Well, I learned all this stuff early on because my uncle, Ralph, who Dan mentioned, was signed

to Warner Brothers in the late 70s. He made a record with his band called Tin Huey. It sold like 5,000 albums. You know, like failure. And then they gave him like 30 grand to fuck off. And they made a record in between and then they just fucking shelved it.

It happens all the time. How many good records do they have shelved? What do they do with them ultimately? Like if people know about it. Dude, I think there's a lot of good records. But I also think there's a lot of records that started off really good. And then some Pepperdine dude is like, remix this. You need to remix it.

You need to do that. You need to add this. You need to do this. Do this. Some dude just guessing, you know? Yeah. It's like, it's not hard to just guess. It's like, if you're looking just guess it's like if i'm

if you're like looking at remodeling your kitchen it's like and you're an idiot you just put the stove here oh fucked up put it over to the left actually right oh redo you know i mean but if you're really a producer musician that makes records and you turn it like you turn in a record it's so frustrating when you get someone that doesn't know what they're doing coming back like maybe you should do this. I actually had that happen to me. There's this band called the Sheepdogs, this Canadian band that actually, this record ended up going platinum in Canada. And in the US, it never even got pushed to radio, not even one song.

But this guy, Chad Blake, who Dan and I work with all the time, who's mixed our last four records, he mixed this record this guy's like a genius an audio wizard yeah he's a wizard so he lives in wales in a little house on his wife works with horses he's got a little side room just a tiny little room just like half the size of this and he mixes huge records so this guy's he's he's a badass this whole record's budget was like 60 grand, including them living off of it and shit. So I took the entire budget

and it was spent on a little cheap studio, a friend of mine who's going to engineer it, them to live, and the rest of it went to Chad to mix it. So I get the mixes back and this A&R guy is listening to the mixes and is like, I think the hi-hat is too loud on this song. I'm not joking.

And I'm on tour with Dan and I'm like, I called Danger Mouse, I'm like, what do I do? He's like, you know what to do. I was like, send him the same mix and label it mix four and tell him it's been lowered. He's like, that's right. But then he's like, you also need to remember, you are fucked now. They will never service this song because that's the cop out.

I was like, bullshit. He's like, just watch. And it is exactly what happened. Oh, my God. And I called him like a year later and was like, dude, you're a fucking genius. He's like, oh, well, I've been through this shit. Wow. Yeah.

Because check it out if you're an anr guy right you're getting like probably six figures you report to a senior anr who reports to a vice president who reports to the president and that if you stick your neck out and you say i want to take a million dollars from the fucking machine and i want to i want i bet bet it all on this band or even a quarter million dollars the odds of any band making it are like probably one in a hundred i'm gonna talk about even breaking even so if you're only an idiot would ever really get behind a band that is unproven so you your whole job is to deflect blame you know i mean so like that's why that's what the problem is you know like if i was going to sign a band and someone offered me he said i had a million dollar budget to sign a new band like i also wouldn't give them all the money because

there's no way i'd make it back you know i mean yeah um but yeah that's the music industry dude is fucked up and then you know you spend years and years and years. And if you're lucky, Dan and I have lucked out. And then you look back and it's like, I don't even know how it happened. There's all these other factors that come into it. And you go try to help a band. Something that worked for us would never work for another band. So there's no formula to it.

And it's really random. It's similar to this shit i was like this this chick i know was talking i was talking about ancestry.com and how she doesn't care about her ancestors i was like you don't care about ancestors that's interesting because like think about the odds of you existing it's like you go back just like 20 generations then that means that you have like over a million grandparents i think it's like two million grandparents in just 20 generations then that means that you have like over a million grandparents i think it's like two million grandparents and just 20 generations like think about all the fucking sperm and eggs and the odds of those each one fucking happening it took two million a million two million people fucking and that happening over and over again to get to your ass you don't give

a fuck about any of it i that's just fucking ignorant, honestly. And if you want to buy into the Elon Musk simulation, remember this, that means there's some motherfucker sitting at the simulation who made that motherfucker. So it's like, you know what I'm saying? The simulation had to have been made

by some motherfucker. There's always something deeper. The thing about anything, it's unexplainable. The fact that dan and i grew up next to each other the fact that we were close in age the fact that we have able to put up with each other's shit and find each other amusing you know after 30 years of knowing each other it's all fucking insane but you guys obviously have a very good balance like the, it's been up and down. But that has to do with a lot of factors, like we said.

Not over-touring is pretty much the main thing. That's a big one, right? That wrecks people. Yeah. That can pretty much take all the art out of you, suck all the life out of you, fuck up all your relationships. Yeah, you just don't want to be out there anymore. No. You just get tired. You want to be home.

It can sour you to the whole thing. You don't really buy into the simulation do you me fuck no not at all but i don't i mean i like what this same person was saying to me uh that they're an atheist and like that's fine you're allowed to believe that but you you also have to accept that there's possibly that's not true yes and they're like oh that's what i believe and but then they went on to say that they believe in uh uh demons and i was like you got it i think that my you know my my rationale about all this stuff is that it's it's simple i was talking about to my stepdaughter who's so smart so sweet and really changed my life in a lot of ways. And we were swimming in the pool talking about life. And it's one of these conversations that she's like,

do you think that there's a God? And she asked me. And I said, well, we don't go to church or anything. And I said, I said, I don't know. But I was like, this is something interesting to think about. I was like, whenever I think about that, I try to think about the end of the universe, like the very end, like the edge. And I can't picture it.

I was like, I can't picture it. I was like, I can't picture like infinity. You know, I can't grasp that at all. And I was like, the mere fact that we can't grasp infinity would lead someone like maybe elon to believe that we're there's a purposely that was left off in some sort of simulation or whatever but maybe that's would be the argument but um i think that that uh the fact that i can't picture maybe maybe I'm just an idiot, but it makes it that I think that there's maybe something more, there's definitely something more to it.

That possibility is way open, but I, I do think, um, what do you think? Um, I had this conversation with a guy who was actually an expert on it. This guy,

Nick Bostrom, and he was trying to explain to me that, uh, because of probability, it's more likely or very likely that we're in a simulation. Because of the probability of someone eventually creating it and that it's very possible that we're in it right now. And more probable than not. But then what does that mean?

I don't know. A simulation has to be a simulation. Why would a simulation of what from what? Well, here's something I know for sure. Okay? This is what I know for sure. This is by my own experiences. That we are the only people on this planet that have ever gotten to 2019.

This is where we are. We know there's a history behind us. We know that this is the peak. We're at 2000. You walked in at a freaky time my man we're at the tooth we're at 2019 right now if we are we we know we exist we know we have culture we know we have incredible technology we don't have any idea if we're the only ones it's likely that there's other life forms out there it's likely there's other life forms out there. It's likely there's other intelligent life out there. But there might not be.

It might be that this is a crazy situation that happens incredibly rarely where you have a planet that's this close to the sun where these life forms figure out how to fuck with matter in an incredible way. And they start flying and sending things through the air that videos that instantly get to your phone this might not ever happen this might only happen here it might happen here and in versions of here which if you believe in infinity you have to believe there's infinite versions of this so there's infinite versions of life so it's almost built in mathematically that there's so infinity is so big there's so many possibilities that everything that you've ever recorded

has also been recorded by you in another place with infinite variations of each individual song infinite variations of each album that there's infinite versions

and that infinite versions of each version and so it's insane the whole thing's impossible for our little ant brains to wrap around it that's possible too it's not it's not unlikely that it's insane. The whole thing's impossible for our little ant brains to wrap around it. That's possible, too.

It's not unlikely that it's a simulation. I mean, it's possible it's a simulation. But it's also possible that this is as far as anything's ever gotten. Because we know it's as far as we've ever gotten. Pat and I are starting an intergalactic publishing company. Yeah. We have science futures. We have future rights. Has scientology signed you to some universe

contract for like a billion years isn't that like part of the deal i think with your if you're on the c org it's like a billion year service yeah i think it's a billion years i think it's for the whole universe you can't even work on other planets i think that the you know it's interesting to think about whenever you talk about something that you don't know the answer to like the simulation or the sure mirrored dimensions and stuff, I think it's all fascinating. It's all possible, man. But I do think when it comes down to it, part of the thing that causes anxiety, part of it is accepting that something is real. Because sometimes when you're having a panic attack or something,'re like it's just even fucking happening this is even fucking real

and i think and i think being in the moment as much as possible uh it it when i really truly feel like i'm living in the present i i really feel like uh you can really feel how special life is. Yes. And how if I was a billionaire and I married the same chick twice, I would think I was living in a fucking simulation too. That's what I think about Elon. It's like he's really fucking smart, but he's a billionaire and he married the same chick twice.

Dude, you can marry anybody you wanted. He gave it a chance. He wanted to make it better. oh man i don't know dude he gave it one more chance he might be he might be living in a simulation well he might be interfacing with a different dimension than us no he might be you think about all the different shit that guy's invented you know my my stepdaughter went to his school for a while oh at astra um it was a really amazing experience for her i believe yeah whatever schools raised that dude where what is that astra what is that that's a school he has he has his own school for some of his children and for some of the uh employees of of his companies really he got his own school holy shit i just don't understand how that's all possible

how can you dig tunnels under LA make batteries make solar panels make electric cars make rockets shoot them into space plan to colonize Mars

like what and then marry the same chick twice that's why he did it he didn't have any time to find a new chick I think it might it might prove that he's a genius

just that maybe he gave it might prove that he's a genius, just that. Maybe. He gave it a shot. He gave it a shot. What if he married her twice and it worked out amazing? Like the second time they appreciate each other more. I think it's worked out really amazing in like a thousand different dimensions, both marriages. Yes.

That's why he did it. Infinite dimensions. He did it because he needed it to work out in another dimension. Oh, create random possibility. Yeah. For no reason. Just create random possibilities in each and every direction. Every decision you make, the universe expands in infinite different directions, infinite

different versions of you. That sounds terrifying. But so does falling asleep. You know, falling asleep is weird. We're all agreeing every night i'm looking forward to literally not existing so i stopped being there for eight hours i don't i don't see anything i have no idea what's going on around me i think about that all the time it's the weirdest fucking thing people do man we all are afraid to die but no one's afraid to sleep everybody's looking for

sleep i always i always have a couple reoccurring dreams. But I had one last night that was fucking insane. A reoccurring one? No. It was based on something that sort of is... I have this dream where it was reoccurring where I'm in a house that I'm vaguely familiar with, but there's all these additions that I discover.

And they're usually either really rickety and dangerous or really beautiful and completely need to be fixed up and covered, like Scooby-Doo house type thing. Last night I had this dream where I was in a house I used to own with my wife. And there was a home invasion, and I had something that they needed and they basically told me that if I had it hidden and I said they were going to come back

if I didn't give it to them. They were going to kill me. And I was trying to figure out how to keep this thing hidden. And I'd still, I woke up from it like, what the fuck? Of course I had to pee like I do right now. Go pee, man.

I want to go. No worries. We're going to talk about you when you're gone. But all good things. And he's gone. Dude, he gets worked up. I would have had no idea. Really?

No, I would have never thought he gets that worked up. Oh, yeah. He just swings. He sits on the bus and there's like 9, 10, 11, 12 hours between each gig and he just can stew. He sounds like a comic. Yeah. He really does. He's been my, you know, our personal comic for 20 years.

Seriously. I mean, he's funny as hell. He should definitely do a podcast. That would be a huge podcast him just talking shit about things him just analyzing what's wrong with the world

I've told him that the corn people are coming though you know that right they're coming for him you can't do that to them 20 years of insults on corn people

I worked at the same record shop that he did yeah Quonset Hut Records I was there when corn came out they had midnight sale people were lining up

At midnight Around the block Kids don't understand That there was something Interesting about going To a record store And seeing records That you had no idea

What they were You'd pick up the album And you'd look at it You'd look at the artwork And like what is this And you flip it over To the back And sometimes

You got roped in You know sometimes You got roped in Just by a cool album cover. It was a beautiful time. Beautiful medium. Do you remember when there were certain stores that would have those little stations

and you'd have a button and you had headphones and you could put the headphones on and listen to an album for a couple seconds? I feel like I spent my whole life doing that. Pat and I went from city to city, went to all the record shops. Did they let you listen to the whole album there? Yeah.

You could just stand and listen. It wasn't just like snips of it? It was the whole thing? Oh, you could listen to the whole thing. Yeah, the good record shops were all like that. And they always had great recommendations. I mean, yeah, I don't know. It's troubling.

You know, like Pat says. I mean, he's thought about it quite a bit. Well, it is, and it's also interesting for new young artists that don't have any distribution. They just get viral from SoundCloud or from Twitter. That can happen. We are just finding out those metrics that just don't quite matter.

They don't quite matter in what way? They don't sell tickets. What about guys like, I mean, it's not your genre, but isn't that what Chance the Rapper did? Or Tyler the Creator? Which one is it? Chance the Rapper. Didn't he do it all from the internet?

Sure. And he's really huge, right? Yes, he's known as an independent artist. He did it? Yes. Tyler the Creator is a totally different thing? Totally different thing, yeah. Okay, sorry guys.

Tyler and I are in touch every once in a while whenever there's a the in between yeah first and your last name i get you know tyler the creator yeah chance the rapper patrick the drummer um that's those are like pool hall nicknames yeah like ray the fireman yeah you know i don't know much about i mean yeah i think The Chance is a good example of breaking into the industry in a different thing. Do you think that... But I also think that there's... It's just interesting to see how all this stuff shakes out 10 years from now.

Who's going to be around? What matters? I mean, back to my wife, Michelle Branch. She sold millions of records. She's an insanely talented individual, an insanely amazing person. But her audience was commercial radio, top 40. And the thing about top 40 is it's the same type of person that goes to watch whatever's popular on television or keeping up with the kardashians like someone who watches keeping up with the kardashians is probably not familiar with gilligan's island you know i mean and five years from now when there's

something different than keeping up with well probably not that show probably still be around but you know what i'm saying they just it's like it's uh it's whatever's freshest and newest and so you end up if you if you end up developing pop, this is why we were talking about not wanting to get played on the radio. It's because it's a different type of fan. It's a less personal type of fan when you get played on Top 40. It's like, you know, when I would go through certain friends of mine's parents' records, they'd have all these records. And they'd say, oh, yeah, I used to listen to that, used to listen to that, used to listen to that. And I'd go through Dan's dad's records

or my dad's records. My dad would be still listening to that shit. The point is that these people were buying like Billy Ocean records. And my dad was buying like Cream records. And he was a fan of music. And this person was a passive pop fan. And I think that what you're experiencing

is when you try to compare pop maybe some of this pop stuff has some sort of credibility because it's independent or whatever but um i think they're very it's a very weird thing trying to figure it out like i think booking a festival nowadays is probably fucking really crazy that's why the woodstock thing was fucking they didn't know what to do they, like when we were told about the festival, it was like we were gonna headline Saturday night. When the lineup came out, it was like Chance the Rapper,

us, and I forget who else was on it, but there were a couple people, there were like three headliners. And we're like, that's insane. Like, what are you thinking?

You're gonna sell 150,000 tickets at $700 a pop? Fucking idiot. Just do a festival for 30, people do two festival two weekends do a pop festival do a rap festival do a rock do whatever it is but don't get you your obligation per night was like 10 million in guarantees or something so you fucking dumbass it's like you're like i wonder why they fucked up so well that guy fucked up the first Woodstock, and it's 50 years later.

He hasn't fucking figured it out yet. It's like, well, you'll get it in 50 years, dude. Mike, you'll get it. 50 years from now, you'll figure it out, buddy. You know, it's like that idea of this repeating shit that doesn't make sense is like, we've all done it, but even Elon's done it do you think that the music business is the way it is because it started out a different thing

it was a different thing it was how they made the records it was the actual records they would put them in the stores but all that shit's gone now so it's just mostly downloads the music business is the way it's set up the way it is because there are independent people who have made very successful careers without having to engage the the machine right but traditionally if you wanted to sell out madison square garden traditionally there are people like fish or whoever who have done it based on the backs of whatever things that they've done but traditionally if you want to make a record and you want to get to madison square garden you need promotion you need radio you need exposure you need publicity you need now almost all of that stuff you can get for free if you have like enough bullshit

up your sleeve on social media and you can get enough 13 year olds streaming their shit you get to fuck msg without a label without a publicist without any of that shit but a you know a band like us in the situation that we're in now like um you know we we can we're in a position to be able to look at the music in the stream like this is this is just crazy that we're paying this person this much money to do what they're doing this is fucking insane and like you we can really talk have open conversations with like people like we're not giving you warner brothers five dollars a record to bundle this shit because what we're paying you to be on your

record label so that we get a fucking number on sound scan that ultimately you'll brag about like fuck all this fuck it but no but you can't do that that's a way that's power struggle is still set up is that if you're on a label you most bands sign these record deals they gotta give that fucking money back to the label it's a 360 deal they got fucking not only that but they get access to your ticket sales like straight up like profit that's weird well it's all that was always where the musicians made money entirely theirs up until streaming, right? I mean, did people cut record labels in on any ticket sales before that? No.

In fact, it used to be set up where a tour was a loss leader to sell a record. Yeah. That's why you'd see bands like, I don't know, fucking huge bands in the 70s, Bad Company or whoever, I don't know, fucking huge bands in the 70s, Bad Company or whoever, they would sell fucking huge-ass fucking stadiums for like $3 a ticket, maybe have a bunch of support, sell a couple million records,

find out the manager stole all the fucking money, write a memoir about it. It's like the tale of the oldest time. It's like I come from an indie rock background and it's always it was sort of like um and dan does too and it's like you know when we're coming up with like even kind of having any knowledge of the business it was like it was considered uncool do you don't you think so a little bit it's considered uncool to think

about finances to kind of really know. Like what you know now, what you just described, the way you broke it all down. Yeah, but we've always been fascinated by it, so I've always paid attention to it. But it's funny now when I'm just realizing, we took a break off the road for four years. And when we came back three years after a break to make a record it was like we had gained we we had gleaned a lot of of perspective you know and our conversations when we first started making this record aside from like uh watching the news and talking about that and laugh making each other laugh and shit it was like this band is something really fucking special you You know what I mean? The fact that we're sitting in this room, you know,

18 years after starting this band and it fucking working out and we're fucking here, we need to make sure that this band is always something that's fun and not a burden and not stressful. It shouldn't be stressful. It should be fun. It's rock and roll. You know what I mean?

And I think that we've been spending the last year figuring out how to make every decision that way so like for instance this show we were like do you want to do this TV show no we want to do we both watched Joe Rogan

I happened to watch it we want to do Joe's podcast. That's what we want to do. That's what's important to us. We don't want to play Woodstock. It's not important to us. It doesn't speak to us. These are the things we want to do.

And taking that type of position with the band and also looking at the business side of it and be like, this is fucking bullshit. This is ridiculous. What this band should be giving us is ridiculous. You know, what, what, what, what, what this band should be giving us is the ability to help other bands,

which is what we do all day long when we're not touring. I mean, in the last five years, Dan's produced probably like 15 albums for other artists. I've done a handful myself. He has a label, puts out other people's music. There's a lot of fucking work.

When we're not touring, we're still working on other music. And the craziest thing is this. We've sold millions of records. We've made, between the two of us, something like 60-plus albums. When I finish a record I'm really proud of and I send it to Warner Brothers, the last time I did that,

they didn't even fucking respond to the email. When that shit happens to you, you know what you want to do? Tell them to fuck themselves. You know what I mean? And right now we're in a situation where our record contract's done. And I saw what happened to my Uncle Ralph. Do you need a contract now? Fuck no.

It doesn't seem like you do. But what we need is, we need people to work with people who understand that the Black Keys is very important to us, but it's also a vehicle that we can leverage to help our other artists

when we're producing shit. And it's so fucking infuriating to have been in this business for 20 years and honestly understand the business better than most fucking managers and be treated like dog shit by this person that you've made millions of dollars for. Do you know what I mean?

Well, it doesn't make any sense that you need anything like that. All you guys need to do is have studio fees or if you have your own studio, produce the music and then once people know your shit is out. No, but it's different because it's different we don't need shit but if you take a new artist from nashville you say and you make a record for them okay okay they need an agent they need they need they need they need to go on tour right they need to do all the stuff that we did but we we were like malnourished fuck freaks we were we were We were losing money the whole time. We were able to lose money because my rent was $145

when we started. And we practiced in my basement and Dan lived in his parents' house. We didn't have, we could make like $200 a month and be in the red, or in the black. Wow.

But no one else is like, that's not realistic. No. So if you really want to. Well, here's what's realistic. If you want to start, but if you want to help artists. Why isn't it realistic? I mean, it's realistic.

Why is it more realistic to go get in $60,000 worth of debt and not be able to have a fucking job? Well, I'm just saying that most bands aren't two pieces. Most bands aren't like human cockroaches. When we first started, Dan was like, I need wonton soup every day. That's what I need. That's all I need. $3.50. We could get a wonton soup.

I need a pack of cigarettes. Wow. But yeah, so you do need some financing. Listen, you have the answer right in front of you. You're a great talker. If you just developed a podcast where you played new music and then talk shit the way you do now it would be gigantic maybe if you just go on the road just do pat and dan you can call it pat and dan on the road and you guys just do it from your tour bus

wherever you just let him wind him up let him talk shit about things and then play music like music that you really enjoy if someone like spotify wouldn't jump on something like that they'd be crazy it's a great idea and you could use it as a platform to help artists avoid the system entirely i'm thinking that might work but also it would work man if we just tweeted mark zuckerberg that we need 145 million dollars he'd probably do it probably do it seems like a good deal if someone wanted to do something like that it's a great idea because you can use it to launch like like i've done with comics on this podcast you find people that are funny let everybody know it's not hard get a get

a group of people that are really interesting keep the conversations going keep more cool people coming in and then you can use that to help other cool people and let everybody know. You could do it through your social media, you do it through a podcast, and of course, you guys are still going to do the same stuff you're already doing with producing people and helping them out.

But you definitely could have your own distribution network, but be ethical free, ethical quandaries free. You don't even have to think about it. You just give it to them for free you just do it as a podcast to broadcast them hey

check out this fucking band I love this I love this song play it bam that would help a lot with like exposure to new music

yeah but I mean I think I guess what I'm saying is they're gonna need an agent to book shows well yeah but I'm saying but I do think it is what I'm saying

the music industry what is, what I'm saying, the music industry, what is actually, something that I think that I think we're trying to figure out now is basically how to actually really work, again, truly independently, you know what I mean? Where it is something

that we can figure out a way to actually do the things we're passionate about, which is a lot of it is something that we can figure out a way to actually do the things we're passionate about, which is a lot of it is making records and helping, and even to make a record and press it, it's at least $10,000. You know what I mean? So I guess what I was trying to say was

you'd expect that someone would look at your work and respect it enough to kind of step in and help out because it's not like you're asking for fucking millions of dollars a year to to finance some shit you're asking for like a couple hundred grand um but that's the problem with the music industry is that so is that certain labels are are willing to give like a soundcloud rapper like 15 million dollars you know but then they look at a band

and they can't quantify their metrics like maybe the Black Keys or whoever and they they don't give a shit help me out with this

because I don't understand it what do they provide what does a record company provide at this point to us physical distribution which is something physical distribution of like LP? Right, right, right.

That's crazy though. How much is that? Yeah, but I mean... Is there a lot of people buying those? No, no, no, no. I mean, for us really, it isn't tons. There's some marketing, there's some stuff like that. But honestly, I mean, we get more from like Live Nation probably.

You know what I mean? So they... What does a record company do then like if you're a young artist they get you they scare you they scare you into handing over the shit that they need and then they sign you to a long-term contract is that how it works and then they pray you have a hit they pray you have a hit and if you do and you want to leave then you're fucked and then if you don't they if they don't think so and they think that you want to leave and you got two records left they shelve that record until you go make another one yeah that's what they do it just doesn't seem dude we had this guy check this out we had this dude who was president of a label at one point

it got back to me that he was taking credit for our success he wasn't even around when we broke you know i mean and the credit he was taking credit for our success. He wasn't even around when we broke. You know what I mean? And the credit he was taking was the most genius fucking credit. This is how smart these fucking people are. He said, yeah man, you know, I think I really take a lot of pride in that band and really help them a lot by just staying out of the way.

He didn't even write a check for tour support or no promotion he's taking credit because he was smart enough not to fuck it up I take personal credit at Bojangles Chicken for them being successful or the new

Popeyes Chicken Sandwich I take a lot of credit though in that chicken sandwich man because I didn't buy one, I didn't fuck it up. I didn't put the wrong post up. But that's a way better attitude, at least a working attitude, than the guy from Pepperdine who wants to fuck with a high hat. Wouldn't you prefer that guy who just gets the fuck out of the way?

I would say I'll take that guy all day long. If those are the two options, then yeah. Yeah, absolutely, all day. I mean, is he taking credit for it, or is he just kind of bragging that he works with you? He can't be taking credit for it. A little bit of credit? A little bit of credit.

A little annoying to you? Dude, there's a lot of credit that gets taken for a lot of shit. It seems like a fucking frustrating and infuriating business that I'm glad I don't have to participate in. As comics, there's no business. We're in the fucking top.001% of this shit and still fucking annoying every single fucking day. It's just like the trick to the music industry is to,

it's because if you really love music like the way that Dan and I do, where it is still the thing that we're most passionate about. I love music. I only think about music, listen to it all day. But yet, you have to find that fine line where you don't, when you make a record you're really proud of and no one fucking hears it, and no one that works with you even responds to an email about it,

you have to find that space where you don't want to kill everybody. You know what I mean? And you still want to go make another record. Do you need to be connected to someone like this, though? Is this a valuable thing in your world? What? To have this record company. No, no.

Not, right? So you can let all this go, right? And don't do it anymore. No, the trick is to find out. Still learning. That's the industry changes is to learn how to pivot and have it make sense. So the real problem is young talent that's just getting started that gets signed when they don't really know their worth yet and they don't know how the problem the problem is is that no one is investing

in fucking real bands they're investing in like a songwriter they're investing in an artist that that was a puppet that like they can go and like say this person's gonna listen to this right do this shit it's like a pop machine do you think that you could do it ethically? That you could do it your way? Look, I think... Do you have the time for something like that? If I was to run a record label, the main difference would be

that I would look at it as, let's try to fucking break even. Let's realize that some of the most important records here have never sold a million copies. Like records here have never sold a million copies. Like the Ramones never sold a million copies of any of their records. They're maybe the most influential punk band. So let's redefine what success is.

Success is getting behind art that we really are proud of and not getting trampled and getting the support that it needs. This all seems doable. Yeah. What you're describing with you seems doable. But then think about this. This is the problem.

This is the crux. Is then you think about the Ramones and you realize this is a band that toured in a van for 20 fucking years. Do you want to subject a band to that? No. You want to be able to elevate that band to the point where they're actually doing that comfortably. And that's the hard part. Can you, though? Would they be the same band?

Not always, right? I think that you could, yes. It's possible, depending upon the individual. Dude, that's why Metallica has these therapists, man. They're trying to figure out how to fucking figure out. Don't you think that part of what you guys are is your background? When you were paying $125 a month for rent and you were living with your parents, this is part of why you guys were so good.

Because you fucking really wanted it. You needed it. You had to get to a better place. We had no other option. Yes. But I think there's something to that that flavors the music. I think that's what we do when we try to work with people. We see that same quality in other

people so people have already been down that road artists that i'm working with now people like yola and people like d white and early changes all these people they're just ornery and they want it this is begging for an organization like your your passion for this is so important we're already sort of doing it we're you guys should have a radio station or a podcast that just talks about these new albums and what's going on and what you're doing. And I'm sure people would fucking love it. And just play music. Play the music that you guys are producing.

Play music that you enjoy that you find out about. I mean, it seems like there's a real easy fix for this angst. I don't think there is because it's been going on for 40 years. You're the Black Keys. But for you, there's a real easy fix for this angst. I don't think there is because it's been going on for 40 years. You're the black keys. But for you, there's a fix. At least there's a better path for some people. The angst is important because it is. It's valid.

We're also, by the way, not that angsty. But when I do talk about the business, I get a little angsty. But I'm a pretty chill individual, to be honest, most of the time. The comedy business is so much easier. Well, you know, I mean. We get to use that in our music. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure.

The drive is like the thing. It's like, you know, when I found this photograph that I just hung up in my road case of Dan and I playing one of our first shows, I'm like, oh, this is important. I should make sure I have this hung up. Because it just reminds me of all the fucking days that we spent being fucking miserable in a van. Because we love music so much, we'd go play a show for fucking nobody. And maybe make enough money to get a Motel 6 room. Share a bed, get up the next day and go to Waffle House and keep fucking doing it for years and years and years and years.

But it does take that type of motivation, and it's frustrating when you do that and then you get to a point where it is the point that we're at and you feel like you've gotten really good at what you do and you help another artist and it's you realize that like after all that work it's like the myth of sisyphus it's like oh after all that work it doesn't move the fucking clock at all still these same motherfuckers aren't fucking aren't fucking helping you know and then you start realizing like what really

has made a difference i mean i've heard i've heard people say take credit for our success say that it was because we played the spike um spike tv video game awards which about eight people watched that's what i thought i thought that made you you know but dude that's the kind of thing that you're up against is like and that's that's the fear of the music industry that's's the fear where it's like, and we said yes to everything because we were a band for like eight and a half years. And then finally we started breaking. And it was like for the first time, here's the offer for SNL. Here's the offer to headline Coachella.

Here's the offer. We had to say yes to everything. Even the Spike TV Video Game Awards. And especially when someone was like, you really should do it. You really need to do it. In fact, if you don't do it, we're not.

And we're standing there with Hulk Hogan. Backstage. It was worth it. It's worth it for that. Right. But the point is that what actually moves the needle? What actually moves the needle?

I was like, is it playing Colbert? Is it playing these things i was like i don't fucking know man because i i i watch baseball and then i put on your podcast and then i go to bed that's what i do in the evening so i don't know who watches that shit but i know that i know my stepdaughter doesn't watch that shit i know she doesn't even know how to work the fucking tv remote she watches youtube all day you know i mean the times are fucking changing you know and i think that that's the hard part trying to pivot with it and i think if if you're

it's like guys our age who are running these labels looking at these view counts and the shit and they're all fucking getting it wrong well they're getting it wrong because their business is money their business is not music they're in the music business to make money you guys are in it to make music that's why i'm saying dude you got to do it you got to start your own thing it's it's a fucking no-brainer it's so easy for you to do you you're obviously a great talker you're obviously very opinionated and you have a great love for music well we're going to restart the bmg music great it'll be called the uh dp tb tbk i like it. TBK Music Club. What we're going to do is you send us 38 cents,

we'll send you 50 albums. And your parents will then write us a letter saying that you entered a contract as a minor and went to void it. How do you guys write songs? Do you come to each other independently? Do you collaborate only in studio? Do you write them in studio? We've,'ve for the most part always just made them up just improvised them like in the move in the moment and then said you liked it let's try to put that down again just sort of gravitate towards

what we like and then just start building on it and all the stuff that doesn't work just push it away and just keep going forward do you have disagre And all the stuff that doesn't work, just push it away and just keep going forward. Do you have disagreements on what works or doesn't work when you're inventing? Not really. No? Not usually. It's always been like that ever since we were 16 and 17.

Wow. I've never really, I don't think, the older I get, the more I realize how special that is. I always took it for granted. I mean, I remember when we were trying to audition bass players. We had this one guy try to come and play with us and I just remember it just

fucked everything up. It didn't even sound like us. Why? It just didn't work. And then when this other person left, all of a sudden it sounded like a big band again. It was weird. I mean, we learned to play together. I never even played.

I've never. I mean, I never played drums with anybody aside from Dan. And me even playing drums in the band is like because it was kind of an accident. I only had a drum set because I wanted to be a guitar player. And I wanted people to come to my house and play the drums. Before I had a driver's license, I got a job washing dishes and bought these drums. I bought everything you need for a band. My friends would come over, and they were all pretty much better at guitar than me.

But Dan came over, and he was the best guitar player of all my friends. And I was like, fuck, what do I do, bass or drums? I was like, well, you can't just jam guitar and bass. I sat down at the drums, and that's what we did in high school. So we learned to play together, man. So because of that, there is like a psychic kind of connection. I mean, we play now on stage with a couple other guys, and it's good, it's, and it's good.

It's easy. It's fun. But there is something when the two of us start playing where we can work in between beats. It's pretty liquid. Our goal has never been to be this tight, kind of rigid. Like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know what I mean? Tightness isn't something.

It's more about the energy, the feeling. It's hard to describe, but it's like... Yeah, we never worried about if we got it perfect. We always, it was always, is this the one that feels best? Always, most important. Do you write the lyrics down? Do you write the music down? Sometimes I'll write lyrics.

Sometimes I'll improvise words. A lot of the new record was a lot of improvising syllables and words. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's just no rules. Absolutely no rules. But a lot of times I'll be singing a melody while I'm doing chord changes,

but I can see Pat. That's the thing that we've always done. We've always been able to see each other when we play and record. So, you know, go with his movements and follow him that way. So you guys just know each other so well. You can see when he's turning. We hadn't been in the studio together for five and a half years. And we didn't do any pre-production or anything.

And the very first idea that we had made the record. Yeah. Wow. I mean, it's just a thing we've had crazy connection yeah man that's so unusual it really is the older i get the more i realize that well you guys have been together for so long and this the thing with bands is like this is my first band it's our first i was never in another like the black is like the first real band i was in yeah it's the first real band I've been in it's so crazy

so I didn't know any different I thought all bands felt like this do you know what I mean that's the saddest thing when you see bands and the lead guitar player is mad at the singer

and you know it's like oh guys come on really yeah it's always over some dumb shit it's usually like

someone's wife is like fucking mean yeah wasn't that what the David Lee Roth Van Halen thing hey we've been through that shit man yeah it's always over some dumb shit it's usually like someone's wife is like fucking mean and yeah wasn't that what the date the david lee roth hey we've been through that shit man we've been through it man it's like it's hard it's hard you know i mean like oh yeah if if i could go back in time and give like our 22 year old selves one piece of advice it would be like don't probably don't tour with your girlfriends until you like have a kid and they can come out for a couple shows just avoid that shit and also probably like don't don't really have a girlfriend until you're like in your late

20s probably what's the problem with touring with a girlfriend? Dude, it's just a codependent motherfucker like me that it was just really hard. I had to get through. I've grown up a lot, you know what I mean? But yeah, it's just hard. It's like the hard part is that I'm up for the work and Dan's up for the work. And when we're on tour,

I go through periods of time where I get phone calls and be like, what the fuck are you doing, motherfucker? You know, or I miss you like that guilt or it's just like i'm like literally in the back of a ford econo van like with like a torn up copy of tv guide reading it for the fifth time because we don't have any money no cell phone or like with a nokia phone like i get getting a guilt trip and stuff. It's like too real to even talk about. Our first tour

I remember Dan having to stop at the pay phone for the fucking hour. Dan would be at the pay phone every hour and Mike would be like I remember my brother Mike was with us I'd be like oh man like sucks to be Dan and then like literally like an hour later he'd be like I have to get to the payphone myself

dumb asses man but you have to go through that you have to learn to appreciate a good relationship you got to go through those where the fuck are your relationships yeah but i mean that's the thing is like it's uh what i guess what doesn't kill you makes you stronger although i read somewhere that's not actually true. Some shit fucks your body up. Some shit just takes the years off your life. Maybe it didn't kill you. Yeah.

Took a decade off your longevity. That's why we're able to get to this spot where here we are, 2019, and I don't think we're insane people. We're pretty close to the same people we were when we were in our 20s. Still wearing some insane t-shirts. I'm not because they're way too small for me. But yeah, I think that there's a time,

like maybe 2012, our shit was really blowing up. I mean, we could do no wrong. I bet there's an alternate universe for sure where we turned into complete dickheads. An infinite number of dickheads. An infinite number of dickheads actually out there. We died multiple times at the Chateau. It's like, yeah. In this version of reality, Dan and Patrick don't play the Spike TV video game words.

They overdose at the Chateau Mormont. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to appreciate, though, that you guys have gone through quite the gauntlet. I mean, it's pretty amazing. I think that the best thing that ever happened to us is that we didn't experience success to our sixth album. happened to us is uh that we didn't experience six success to our sixth album and when and what it is because if we would have got that we're 23 we would have never been able to sit down and realize what what was going on yeah yeah everything everything about us has been just sort of

ridiculously synchronistic yeah but it's also that kind of luck and timing and right but that's where the simulation comes in bro i think that's i think that's just where the that. Right, but that's where the simulation comes in, bro. I think that's just where the uniqueness and the crazy thing, that's the crazy thing about life is that certain things are rare. It shouldn't be that crazy that a relationship like Dan and I's is so rare, but it is. Right. There aren't that many of them.

Right. I mean, there are a lot of friends who start off playing music, but they end up, most of the stories end in either just failure, giving up, hating each other, or some shit version of that. Yeah. But yeah, simulation. I mean, dude, the simulation, there has to be a simulator to play the simulation on on and that's the problem it could just be we're confused about what reality is in general it might be the reason

why we think it's a simulation is because it exists in so many different planes and it's probably always shifting all around us all the time and some of the way you think does have some effect on the world itself well i used to wake up in the morning and like uh drink a cup of coffee smoke a cigarette play a video game jam on my drums drive around hang out my friends now i i wake up and i do so much shit and none of it isn't necessarily stuff i want to be doing that i do think that there's no way we're in a simulation because I would never fucking have simulated that. But you don't get to choose.

Well. You go through. Why am I? I need to bounce over. There's rules to it. Quantum leap. Quantum leap. But, I mean, if you just decided that it was a simulation,

and you said, well, I don't like this course, I want to shift some things about it, it would probably be easier to do if you knew it was a simulation than it would be to shift them in your own life. If you're like, I'm doing too many things, I'm just going to take these, I'm going to phase these out and piss these people off.

Yeah, no, that's why I think we're not living in a simulation because every time I do make a decision to change something, it gets better. So you're learning and growing in real time. Yeah, in real time I mean, it might be I'm telling you The biggest argument against the simulation

I'm telling you Is that Elon Musk married the same woman twice Straight up But why not? Send it to your quantum physicist Send it to him Just say, my dude has this theory Send it to Sean Carroll See what he can do with it Tell him just say my dude has this theory I'm going to send it

to Sean Carroll yeah send it to him see what he can do with it tell him to crack the numbers on that shit yeah there's 7 there's 3.5 billion women

on earth and this guy married the same person twice they stayed in the same social circle think about that dude she's probably

a wonderful woman dude yeah I'm not saying I'm just saying maybe he missed her you know yeah

it is kind of crazy but hey I don't know her maybe she's amazing that's like when you look at like I mean I've been married three times like a dickhead

but it's like if you go if you look at my Wikipedia it's like I always joke I had to get to wife number three just so I could like have that like

kind of Vince Neil fucking Wikipedia page but it is like guys have that Vince Neal fucking Wikipedia page. But it is guys like that. Vince Neal, where you're looking like, oh, he's married to the same woman from 84 to 85, back 88 to 89, back again. Who does that shit? It's romantic. He likes to drink. Larry King does that shit.

Yeah, Larry King. He just got divorced again at 85. I saw him last night. Yeah, we saw him last night. Is he partying? Bunch of chicks? He was, actually. Drinking champagne? He was got divorced again at 85. I saw him last night. Yeah, we saw him last night. Is he partying? Bunch of chicks? He was, actually. Drinking champagne?

His honor. He looked very old. Like my grandfather. He doesn't look that healthy. His posture is not that robust. It's that thing where you get to that age and you get forced to just drink Slim Fast all the fucking fucking day it's a bummer to think that someone's getting divorced at 85 but then part of me goes well is it a more of a bummer to be in a terrible

relationship when you're 85 it's probably a better relief like if you're if you're fucking throwing in the towel at 85 you're done i mean you're you're like look really. I'm really done. I'm so tired and I can't. Dude, it's just. I can't even think about it. I'm just done. At 85, do you think about all that shit? All the work it takes just to go through a divorce at 85. When he goes to the ocean and just chucks his cell phone in. Fuck you.

Splash. Whole new phone, new carrier. Fuck you, ghoster. Ghoster. What if he marries her again next year? I hope he doesoster what if he marries her again next year I hope he does I hope he marries her again tomorrow no but I could say

no prenup either I could see how he he might marry a previous wife if she was going to take care of him in his last couple years and they were close still

that would make sense Richard Pryor had that going on towards the end of his life he was being taken care of by one of his previous wives. I could see that. That's sweet. That's kind of like a... Pretty sure.

That's like an Oprah bestseller type thing. It was definitely one of his wives. I might have fucked that story up. Definitely one of his wives. I'm just going to believe it the way you told it because I prefer it that way. I like it that way. In some simulation, it is that way. That's a beautiful way of getting away with some sort of facts.

Like, what if Troll 1 was part of Troll 2? I'd be like, oh, shit. In a different dimension. Right. Well, Troll 2 is like almost evidence of something wrong. Like, the simulation has been, like, there's a problem in the record. They put out a terrible movie and forgot they didn't put out the prequel. Do you know Harmony Corrine?

He wrote the movie Kids and Spring Breakers. He directed it. Oh, wow. He's friends of ours. And he was telling me this thing that blew my mind like five years ago. He's like, there's this movie called The Peanut Butter Solution.

Have you ever heard of it? he's like dude he's like everyone who watched this movie as a kid it was made and aired on tv in canada he's like go look at the youtube comments it's crazy and i went and looked at all the comments for the same like oh my god i watched this as a kid and i forgot the whole thing i just now remembering it everyone every comment was that way he's like dude it was like mass hypnosis the way it was edited it's like that it kind of created everyone to like forget that they were watching that they saw it and uh maybe maybe there is a troll one they just took it away i forgot it just took it away oh you know what it was it was troll hunter that's what it was i was gonna Troll Hunter. That's what it was. I was going to bring that up. That came out in 2010, though.

Yes, that's the movie I'm talking about. Yeah, that's the schlocky movie. Pulled that up. That's what I was thinking. It's probably inspired by Troll 2. Troll Hunter was these guys that were trying to find these trolls. And it was just like, just at the point in time before drones were effective. He kind of bought in that there was no aerial way of finding this thing that you had to wait for it to pop out of the woods it's like a found footage

movie right oh yeah yeah yeah found footage but with special effects of a giant troll that comes out of the forest as tall as the trees and it's so stupid it might be better than that other terrible movie because it's silly, here's the trailer. So these people are like, well, we're going to find it. So revealing. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Get to the troll, bro. Where is it?

Is that it? Yeah, there it is. See, it was giant. Chasing these people. Fuck it. Oh, no. Jesus. Look at it.

There it is. Oh, shit. See, so it's like found footage, with special effects fun fucking stupid movie that you know like you never really scared that someone is going to die because none of them are real people in your mind it's not that kind of movie nice it's like they do whatever they want to those people so that was what i remembered i just couldn't so maybe that was it maybe that was troll too with those but those couldn't. So maybe that was it. Maybe that was Troll 2. But those were little trolls. Troll 2, they're like human-sized.

Yeah, okay. I mean, it's a really incredible film, the first half of it. The rest of it, I would not recommend it. Actually, Dan's brother, it all takes place in this town called Nilbog, which is even one of the best parts is that it takes place in a town called Nilbog, and the little kid sees the sign in the rear view mirror. He's like, Nilbog is goblin backwards. So it's actually about goblins. Troll 2 is about goblins.

So Dan's brother had the personalized plate, Ohio plate, that said Nilbog. Yeah, my brother Jeff in high school. That's hilarious. But through the rear view mirror man it's a goblin pretty genius that is very smart i mean if you need that in your life you need to be tricking people with words that's the way to do it if you're all about goblins it's a weird thing to fixate on it It's weird. My brother's a strange character. Very strange. You know they have those new plates?

They're like digital plates. And then if someone steals your car, it just says stolen. That's cool. It's weird, though. They're like a screen that projects the numbers and the letters. Weird. Yeah. Could you hack into that?

Oh, for sure. And also, they could track you. Like, for sure, they're tracking you. Because if it gets stolen, then they know exactly where it where it is dude that's my favorite thing on earth is when someone like unfollows you on instagram like oh shit my phone was hacked or the amount of phone hacking that's going on yeah well wasn't that there was a woman who worked for cnbc who said her website was hacked she wrote a bunch of homophobic shit back in the day. Remember that? Yeah. But people say their account was hacked.

Like, that's all they did. They didn't go in there and push Russian websites that, you know, sell sex dolls. No, no, no. They went in there and just edited a few things to make you look like a piece of shit. Yeah. Yeah. So they did to Jack when they hacked his Twitter account.

Oh, but they did do that to Jack. But to Jack, it was a bunch of racist shit. Imagine if Jack was just fucking with people. He's like, watch this. I'm going to see if my account was hacked. And I'm just going to get fucking crazy. Like, Jack is probably like those cops that want to kill people after a while. He's just so fed up with the system and censoring people.

And just all these people getting deplatformed that he wants to just jump on and drop N-bombs. Imagine it was an inside plot. He just decides, look, I'm going to hack myself just so I can say the most ridiculous shit. Because no one's been arrested, right? No, see, if you were going to hack the CEO of the biggest fucking social media platform in the world, wouldn't you think there'd be a goddamn

ruthless investigation? They would send the Mossad after those kids. Like, who did it? Who dropped the N-bomb on Jack's Twitter page? They would find that person. Yeah, it's like... Be worth a million dollars. They'd hunt them down.

It's a playbook. Step number one, just my account was hacked. Yeah, it's a move. I like it when literally it's like people that I just hang out with at the bar say that. It's like, what the fuck? Shit wasn't hacked? Yeah. Shit wasn't hacked?

I did get my Gmail account stolen once. That did happen. I was like, wow. Someone can do that. They just steal your Gmail. Dude, I got 65,000 emails, unread emails in my account. I'd love for someone to hack into that shit. A, nothing interesting in it.

All my emails are cool, period. Sounds good, period. Sitting around writing thoughtful-ass emails. That is not me. I don't have time for that shit. Being thoughtful. Call you on the phone if I need to oh my god yeah my shit was hacked and what did they do with it no my shit wasn't i know i know i was playing along

what would they do with it what did they do you they hacked in your was it your twitter what was it they hacked in there and they found a direct message to you asking if we could be on the show. Did they say some fucked up shit about corn? Yeah. Dude, when I got in my last Twitter, well, I've had two Twitter incidents. One was with Justin Bieber. And one was early on. I tweeted like in like 2010, I tweeted like something so stupid, not even funny.

Like Madonna's crushing. We were on a tour bus and like we were driving to a show and SNL was on. I said, oh, Madonna's crushing it on SNL. And it was Lady Gaga. That was the fucking joke. But a year later, it wasn't even like funny. And she wasn't like that famous or anything. I would have laughed.

That's funny. Well, a year later, some like Gaga monster found it and was like you know go kill yourself and i just i think i was one of the first people to maybe take this i mean take this tactic i started just retweeting the most vile shit that was like you're fucking asshole kill yourself i just retweeted and it was like once again right with the top of this bolt like before it was like the thing before the me too was the bullying thing don't stop bullying and it was just like these people were just like fucking crushing me on there and i started that's when i started being like fuck twitter man like fuck it well people will also say that you're bullying if you retweet it because you're sicking your Twitter mob on them.

Yeah, but like you could spin anything however you want to do it. But my Twitter mob was like fucking, at the time, was like 3,000 people in Ohio. It was more of a militia. Yeah. Melk's Lia. Yeah. An elk's lodge. Yeah. But then, you know, the Justin Bieber thing happened, and it was like, I just, I realized at that point, like, it's a real, like, A, these are all kids.

A lot of these people are just fucking idiots. Like, you shouldn't. Like you would be if you were 13. Yeah. If I was 13 and I was, like, spout off anything, like, all these kids, like, are kids like are gonna at some time some point get a job at a corporation someone's gonna go through their shit deep and like get called into the office but you see what's happening with justin trudeau the prime minister of canada yeah they found brown face so he was in a good he's dressed in a costume how did they find all three of them the same fucking day? Well, somebody was searching for some shit. But he was in a costume in 1981, and we're upset?

People were at real tweets were saying that he should be horrified by this racism. Is he just in a costume? Because it seems like he's just in a costume pretending he's an Arabian guy. Is that really racist? It's called Arabian Nights. Yeah. I mean racist is it's called arabian nights yeah was i mean maybe it's insensitive now today but in 1981 guess what no one cared dude in 1981 the one of the biggest films i think are not biggest a big film was uh so silver streak my brother will older brother's obsessed with trains in fact he works for amtrak now but in that movie

older brother's obsessed with trains in fact he works for amtrak now but in that movie there's a scene where gene wilder has to put on blackface yes and um you know that of course would never go on now and i could see that's something if i'd offended but at the time when i saw that for the first time when i was six or seven like uh you know that was a different time. Do you remember seeing Thomas Howell's Soul Man? Do you remember that movie? It was like in the 90s. He played a guy who pretended to be black to go to a certain school. Do you remember that?

I remember vaguely. This happened in 2001, though, not in 1981, just to clarify. Which one? Justin Trudeau stuff. He was only 10 in 1981. Yeah. Oh, it happened in 2000? Yeah, yeah.

It was 18 years ago. Oh. That's a little different. It's Yeah, yeah. It was 18 years ago. Oh. That's a little different. It's a little different. It's a little different. Why did I say it was 81? Where did I hear it was 81? Maybe I just repeated dumb numbers.

But what... I don't know, man. I've never worn a blackface, and I sure as fuck would remember it if I'd ever put it on. That's why I was like, I don't remember that. Pull up that movie, Soul Man. What? See Thomas Howell. Who was it that said they couldn't remember wearing it?

Someone that got in trouble, the person before. Oh, yeah. Who was that? That was like a senator? It was somebody from Kentucky. I don't know, man. I don't know, man. I can tell you everything I was for Halloween.

I was Orville Redenbacher recently. See, this is see Thomas Howellell And that's when he's He's the white guy And I forget What exactly it was He took some tanning pills To get into school Is that what it was?

He took tanning pills? Oh my goodness To get into a school He took tanning pills? It might have been Harvard Or some college Or something like that

Oh okay So and then Screwed ahead To when he turns into A black fellow And all of a sudden Bam Like here it is

Did you see what he was talking into? What was he talking into? A noose Oh Jesus So he's gonna kill himself because he took too many tanning pills? Probably because he couldn't get into college Oh right Poor guy

So he took the tanning pills again Go to the picture of him I thought he was looking in the mirror But imagine if you decide you're gonna make this movie today jesus imagine if you're gonna make this movie today oh my god they would hang you is that julia this was like a harmless movie in 1990 whatever it was when this movie came out this was an absolutely harmless movie that nobody protested about. Nobody cared. It was really obvious what was going on. It was not a great movie, but nobody cared. Imagine if you put that movie out today.

Dude. Oh, my God. You know what I was thinking about the other day? I was thinking about how fucking insane Doogie Howser is. I was like, if I was fucking sick and a 12 year old walked in the fucking office like seriously that's right he was a doctor he's a fucking 12 year old doctor i mean get the fuck out of here motherfucker yeah like seriously but then a doctor was he dude i don't know but then i realized something i was like that it like this not only was he a doctor but like he

every night after the day he would his he would sit down at his computer and do his journal. Which is, I know for a fact that, I don't know for a fact, but I'm pretty sure that the whole basis of Sex and the City is based off of that. It's on Doogie Howser. It's Doogie Howser. I think that they are connected. You know how they say that Family Matters is a spinoff of south park perfect simpsons perfect strangers perfect strangers the elevator doorman why was i just rattling off different cartoons perfect perfect strangers is supposed to take place in the same universe as family matters but I do think Sex and the City takes place in the same universe as Doogie Howser.

And maybe if you think of, what's that guy that she's always trying to date? Mr. Big? Maybe Mr. Big's Doogie Howser as an adult. Never know.

Never know. I never connected those two I don't think I ever watched an episode of Doogie Howzard And I've only reluctantly watched an episode of Sex and the City Because a friend was on it A couple years younger than you So we were subjected to that shit

But now kids don't even watch it There were three channels when we were kids Yeah, kids barely watch TV anymore He was a second year resident surgeon Second year He'd been cutting into people for a year already oh my god yeah kids today are not listening they are rather not watching anything they're watching things on their computer and they're watching things on their their phone they think that somewhere around 50 of what you're getting on Netflix these days, kids are watching on their phone.

Wow. Yeah. YouTube's a big one, too. Didn't you say that this podcast, most of it, people watch on the phone? 60%. 60% on the phone. And now they have phones like the Galaxy Note 10. It's just all screen device. You can actually enjoy it.

You can watch something. It's 6.8 inches. It's like a little TV. Yeah. It's weird we all had that i mean they're watching movies on those being on tour being on the bus it's amazing i haven't really be honest it is incredible but when you guys tour do you always go bus to bus city to city or do you do fly city to city or just always do the bus thing here's the here's the thing about touring is like let's say dan walks in it's like man i fucking hate the fucking bus what happens is a uh typically a manager says oh you don't need to fucking you just fucking fly private dude you hub out of this we'll hub out of jackson hole on the west coast dude yeah it's fucking great the trick the thing

is is that the manager still getting the same cut of whatever you're making you're just spending all of your cash like the most genius thing you can do in the music business if you're if you're music business man if you're a manager or business manager is to get your client to spend all their money because they just have to work more and your shit comes off the top you know i mean dude you're playing three-dimensional music business chess at all times yeah it's kind of creepy you need a personal chef and a trainer and uh everything yeah buy a mansion yeah buy a mansion in each city what up they want you to go off crash a ferrari on stage every night dan you should be like ted nugent get a buffalo

ride it on you need the buffalo i have i have a I have a buffalo head in my house that Ted Nugent. Gave you? Gave to Michelle. Really? Wow. That's huge. 68. He killed it in 68.

Really? Mm-hmm. 1968? That's what he told. Michelle's brother was his drum tech for a year. For a while. Oh, shit. Wow.

Yeah. That's a good way to end this podcast. What's the time with that? Dude, we did like three and a half hours. Jesus. It's 3.30. Damn. I'm telling you, you need to do this. You need to do this. You need to do your own.

A hundred percent. And I think it could serve a great function. It's so easy to do, man. We'll just come on here again. Anytime you want. But it's so easy for you to do your own. I mean, you can get one of those little fucking Zoom, is this a Zoom mic, right? Is that it?

Or Shure makes them, like a bunch of different companies. They probably already have the equipment. Yeah, I'm sure you do. And just get on the bus. And with the ambient sound and everything, it would actually be kind of cool to hear that and just talk shit. And, dude, people would fucking love it. And you could have that be like the interstitial in between great songs that you love.

I'm not opposed to thinking it's a good idea. We've talked about it. I think it's an amazing idea. Yeah. Let's get a photo, boys. Cheese. Yeah, man. All right.

You're going to do it. Thank you for being here thank you love you guys thank you very much bye everybody