The Joe Rogan Experience - #1373 - Kyle Kulinski

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

Kyle Kulinski is a political activist, progressive talk radio host, social democratic political commentator, and the co-founder of Justice Democrats. He also hosts the show “Secular Talk”.

Boop! Here we go. Hello, Kyle. Hey, man. What's going on? What's going on, buddy? Good to see you again. Good to see you in your wonderful pink shirt. Yeah, it's confident, right? Pink and gray, it's like you're confident. You got a lot of shit going on. Yeah, the lowdown on this, though, is I was supposed to get this dry-cleaned when I was in Tennessee for Politicon, which was just a few days ago.

And then even when I got here, I was like, I got to get this dry-cleaned. Going on Rogan's show, of course I didn't, but it doesn't look too wrinkly it looks good thanks man it looks very good appreciate it so tell me what you were saying right when i walked in i said hold this thought you were you were saying that chelsea manning is locked up and they're charging her a thousand dollars a day yeah chelsea manning is locked up right now because they wanted her to say more stuff against julian assange she's refusing to do it, and they're fining her, I think it's over $1,000 a day. So that shows you, you know, because before that we were talking about Snowden, and that shows you that they do not mess around when they feel like you're uncovering their BS.

Yeah, now what are they trying to get from Julian Assange? Like, what do they have on him? Well, Julian Assange, there's a couple what do they have on him well julian assange there's a there's a couple reasons why they despise him but um he has no political home right now particularly because it used to be democrats that defended him right but then he pissed off the democrats because he leaked on the dnc right and he showed you know what was going on with hillary behind the scenes and how the primary was basically rigged against bernie sanders so democrats used to like him now democrats hate him and trump used to like him used to like him when he was getting this information on Hillary.

But they hate him as well because Trump has basically been convinced by the people around him in the White House that this guy is dangerous because this guy basically exposed U.S. war crimes. That's why they're coming after him because he released a video which showed that we were killing civilians. And then we circled back around and did what's called a double tap where we killed the first responders. And the idea at the time was, oh, it's OK, we're going after Al Qaeda. But come to find out that wasn't Al Qaeda. They were innocent civilians. And then they were the medics that came afterwards. And so Julian Assange thought, hey, listen, this is not something we should be doing.

And the American people deserve to know about this. This shouldn't be top secret. This is a war crime. And so he released that, and then that's why they were coming after him and throwing the book at him, because, you know, just like with Mike Revell previously, Daniel Ellsberg, actually, is who I'm thinking of, just like with Daniel Ellsberg,

when he showed what we were doing in Vietnam and how we were killing civilians, they do not want you to expose their war crimes. They will throw the book at you and act like you're a spy, you're working for a foreign country, you're a traitor, because they want to keep that stuff under wraps because it really embarrasses them and it really shows what U.S. Empire is doing around the world.

That was that collateral murder video? Yes. Yeah. What's really bizarre about this is how no one speaks out against it. No one. No one on the right, no one on the left. It's just this thing now. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It doesn't have a home. Yeah, well, unfortunately what you see is it becomes very partisan. So when Obama is doing drone strikes and killing 90% innocent people, unfortunately, partisan Democrats don't talk about it. Now that Trump has increased drone strikes by 432% over obama with still a tremendously high civilian death rate now uh you know maybe some democrats will talk about it but republicans certainly don't talk about it but 432 432 percent that's right and obama was a radical acceleration of the bush administration's drone policy that's right and trump has increased it even more and see that's the problem is people get mad now that you know trump is at

the helm of this stuff but all of these things now it's precedent he's not doing anything that wasn't established beforehand it was can i ask you this though when you say trump is doing it who is that exactly making the call do they bring this call to trump and they say hey you know we're gonna bomb yemen we're gonna do this with drones and this does he have to sign off on each individual attack that's a great question and the short answer answer is, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was directly involved in some of these instances. I know that his first military raid as president that he approved ended up killing a nine-year-old American girl. It was Anwar al-Awlaki's daughter, I believe. But I also do think that there is this, what you can call the

deep state. I know people think that's like this what you can call the deep state i know people think that's like a conspiratorial term but it's really not all that's saying is that the cia the nsa the fbi these are people who are in these positions of power and they're they're there throughout all these different administrations yes snowden talked about that exactly so that's not conspiratorial and so when when you have a kill list and when you have people at the CIA and the Pentagon, by the way, a lot of them are calling the shots. And maybe they just need an okay every now and then from President Trump. But yeah, I mean, I think that there's, it's not just one person making all the decisions. I think that the president does play a role. But I also think it's generals, I think it's people at the CIA. And I think it's this complex web of people who are all kind of involved in this thing that ends up being drastically negative.

Yeah, drastically negative, to put it mildly, right? When you're talking about 90% civilian casualties with drone strikes, that's such a disturbing thing that this continues, that no one says, hey, this is grossly ineffective and horrific in its consequences. Yeah, what they do is, you know, they give everybody a false choice. They make it seem like, hey, listen, man, if we're not doing these all-out ground invasions and we're not doing, like, war-war with boots on the ground, well, what do you want us to do? Like, there are bad people out there. We got to go after these bad people.

So this is like the soft power option, if you will. And my response to that has always been yeah but you do have to follow the constitution and the way our system is supposed to work is you can't have the president just declare war and just go and do it congress has to approve war so if you wanted to do a drone war okay but you got to get a declaration of war tell me exactly which countries you're going to be doing the bombing in why you're doing the bombing in in those countries and get an approval through congress so if you were to come to me and say hey man there's an al-qaeda cell that's very active in pakistan or whatever so we want to approve a drone war have congress vote on it

see what happens and then move from there but what we're doing now is it's just baked into the cake that we violate u.s law we violate the constitution and we violate international law with all these bombings because as of right now we're bombing at least eight different countries and we also have a shadow war going on in africa so we do we do absolutely shadow war in africa so the intercept reported on this i don't know as much uh on this off the top of my head but uh jamie if you wouldn't mind please pulling up uh an article from the intercept there's a shadow war going on in africa where we're building military bases all over africa and the idea is i think that we have these uh bases where we can the drones fly out of and they could go to the middle east and they can bomb there is this also in response to the fact that china is essentially

moving into large parts of africa to extract minerals and see natural resources yes and this is actually super interesting because the china thing they're doing this belt and road initiative and basically this is like their version of empire through debt okay so what they do is they'll go into like they just made a deal with iraq we spent trillions of dollars in iraq at an illegal and offensive war china swoops in and they go hey listen what we want to do is help you guys we want to build your infrastructure up we want to make your country beautiful so if you do a deal with us we're going to like build all the infrastructure with you credit exactly and then what happens they turn around and they say okay well then you can get a certain percentage of our oil sales or whatever it might be so this is and it's funny because there's been this like evolution when it comes to empires so it used to be back in the day

you just kind of go up on somebody's shores and say, mine, I'm taking it, and you do it by force. Then the U.S. evolved from that. And what the U.S. does is, it's this cute little trick where we say, no, no, no, we're not going to control you directly. What we will do is take somebody from your native land,

prop them up as a dictator, and then they will allow U.S. corporate interests to go in there and kind of exploit the natural resources. But it's intelligent because you're saying, no, no, we're not in there ourselves, like the British did in India, for example, or they just showed up and they're like, it's ours, you know, there was a British presence there very clearly, we have people from their native lands, take control, but we exploit stuff from them and extract stuff from them. So China took that one step further, where it's like, okay, no, we're actually going to provide you with, you know,

material well being, we're going to give you a solid infrastructure. And then it's like okay no we're actually going to provide you with uh you know material well-being we're going to give you a solid infrastructure and then it's like you look at it more like a business deal than an expansion of empire and honestly this is one of the weird benefits of having an authoritarian like system like china does is they can make a decision on a dime yeah you could just have the the communist party just goes yeah we'll we'll do this because this is the best way to do it and there can be no back and say, I don't agree with that, let's stop it. Here, the way Western democracies work, it's almost like you have this certain slowness that's built into the process because there's so many checks and balances.

And in many ways, that's a good thing. You want a system like that, but in many ways, it provides a strategic disadvantage, at least when you're talking about imperialism. So here's the article from The Intercept, U.S. Special Operations Numbers numbers surge in Africa's shadow wars. The most dramatic growth in deployment of American elite troops of any region of the globe over the past decade, according to newly released numbers, Africa. sent overseas were deployed in the U.S.-Africa Command Area of Operations. In 2016, 17.26% of all Special Operations Forces, Navy SEALs, and Green Berets, among them deployed abroad, were sent to Africa.

So this is something that you never hear about. Never hear about it. Never been a vote on it. They just do it. Wow. It's scary. It's scary the way that it works. How you really do have a deep state,

if you will, kind of making decisions and the president just kind of goes along with it. And we're all sitting around here acting like, hey, man, maybe instead of doing that, we could actually, I don't know, use some of our tax dollars to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, which gets a grade of D plus. I mean, but are they doing it because they see a threat? Like exclusive. U.S. has more military operations in Africa than the Middle East. Whoa. Now is this, is it possible because they see a threat? I think that's the rationalization that they use, but I think it has more to do with power

and control. And when you're the world's sole superpower, you don't want to cede that ground to anybody else. And so the benefits that come along with that in their mind is they can rationalize jacking natural resources from all over the world by saying no listen you'd rather have us in this position than you would russia than you would china so it's really like this the idea is in their own minds it's like we're a benevolent superpower that's only doing this to keep the world order. Well, Mike Baker tried to explain Huawei to me.

And one of the things that he, Mike Baker from the CIA, one of the things that he was explaining, he said, you have to realize that there is no such thing as industry independent of government in China. If you have something like Huawei, if you have a giant corporation, they are inexorably connected to the Chinese government. And the moves they make are not necessarily designed for, you know, the infinite growth paradigm, this idea that we have in the United States with corporations are beholden to stockholders who are just trying to make money. That's not what they're doing over there. They have a long game. And the long game involves information involves espionage involves stealing trade secrets and and and patents from other companies and so when they're selling them these modems they've got built-in third-party options so the third party meaning china can extract information so if you're if someone has this modem and they're using this modem to send information to someone in Beirut, China can also get that information. Yeah, they do a lot of cyber. I

mean, that's been a thing that's been known for a long time that they'll jack patents and intellectual property and they have this whole economy that's kind of thriving off technology that's made elsewhere. That's certainly an issue. But also, I would argue that it's probably the case with the US too, that this kind of distinction between corporations and the state is largely a veneer because you have such control of our political process, because of big money from corporations flowing into the system. So I think that a lot of these decisions that are made, even when it comes to foreign policy, are directly in relation to how it will impact those corporations. Like the thing that I remember was a light bulb moment for me back in the day when I first learned about it was the banana wars.

Have you ever heard about this? No. Back in the day, I think it was in the late 1800s, but don't quote me on that. We just went into South America and started toppling governments because we wanted to jack their bananas. And it was literally for, I think, the Chiquita Banana Company that we did that. Yeah. So when you look at that, you go, okay, well, that kind of distinction between corporation and government is not even really a thing here. It's like this veneer that's in between the two.

But really, it's the powerful moneyed interests and the elites that kind of run everything. And they're married at the hip, whether they're in the government or whether they're in corporations. What year was this? I think this was the late 1890s. Again, I'm more than happy to be fact-checked on this, but I remember the first time I read about this, it had to be in college, the Banana Wars. I was like, that's insane. Killed people for bananas.

It's crazy. Well, how about when you go throughout history and you find out that a lot of the wars were over salt? I didn't even know that. Oh, my God. They killed people for salt. It was very important back in the day because they didn't have refrigerators. So in order to preserve things and keep them from being infected by bacteria, they would pour salt all over their meat and salt all over their fish, and that's how they preserved things.

Right. You could apparently preserve things for long periods of times when you completely cover them with salt. Yeah, so I guess it's just always been a thing that it's like wars over resources. Yes. Now there's a lot about oil, but like— We're accustomed to the oil stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

You're right. We have been used to that for quite a while, and it's interesting because what just happened with Syria and Trump, that was fascinating, is at first he said, oh, we're getting out of Syria, we're getting out of northern Syria. Everybody went crazy and said, oh, my God, what about the Kurds? And then we come to find out like three or four days later that he's like, well, no, we're actually taking these troops from northern Syria, moving them over into western Iraq, and they're going to be doing the same thing that they've been doing from Western Iraq. And then Trump had the nerve to go out there and say, and we've secured the oil. It's so tremendous. We've secured the oil. We're not going to make the same mistake like we made in Iraq again. And this is something that he had been saying at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, going back for years. Every year he'd give a speech.

And he actually said, like, we should have taken the oil. We should have taken the oil in Iraq because we didn't want ISIS to have it. And we should have taken the oil. We should have taken the oil in Iraq because we didn't want ISIS to have it, and we should have it instead of ISIS. And it's like he actually rips the mask off of everything we're doing because he has no filter. And it's like, yeah, that was a big part of it. But what he's just admitting in front of the world is international law means nothing. We don't care about, you know, the proper process. We don't care about – like, imagine for a second China did that to us.

They're like, no big deal or anything, but we're just going to go into Texas and we're just going to jack all your oil. But don't worry, because it's OK. We're allowed to do that because we say we're allowed to do that. We like what are you talking about? But we're going to do that to a sovereign country, Syria, as we pretend like we care so deeply about civilian or Syrian civilians. And that's why we're there to protect them. Like, no, we're there to check their oil. That's what we're trying to do and control the region. It's so disturbing when it's that transparent. Exactly. But see, it's interesting.

But is it better? Well, that's what I was just about to say next is that some people make the argument that, well, at least there's no tap dancing bullshit. Whereas with all the other presidents, they have this fake holier-than-thou attitude where they really can put a happy face on a disgusting thing like empire where trump is and i think it's fair to say he's like too stupid to really go through the tap dance and so people are like hey there it is it's like it's right in front of our face but what's interesting about him is he says both things at the same time like he has the political instincts enough to know that people think war is generally bad so he always goes out there and he talks about how he thinks war is generally bad and we got to get our troops out of the middle

east i don't know why we're there it's so stupid to do in the first place but when you look at what he's actually doing it doesn't match his rhetoric so i don't know if you remember this but like a year or so ago he tweeted uh we're getting out of afghanistan finally after all these years we've been there for 18 years it was terrible we should have never been there in the first place and then we just didn't get out he said that acted like we were going to do it and then the generals behind the scenes were like that's a good one and we never got out and then he just stopped talking about it we're still there but he said he just says it he's like oh we're gonna get out of iraq then he doesn't do it so what happens is he gets it's actually

politically it's it comes across sometimes as a positive because nobody follows up with it and the media doesn't do their job and say wait we didn't actually get out of there but so it comes across as a positive politically because he's still doing the head fakes towards non-intervention with people agree with but it's business as usual behind the scenes how much time do you think he actually spends on any of these things and if he does spend time how does he have the time to do these time how does he have the time to do these interviews how does he have the time to tweet how does he have the time to watch fox news i mean i really want to know like how much interaction he actually has with his cabinet like how much

interaction does he actually have with the generals how much interaction that's that's the dirty little secret joe is that it can't be much it's not because what he really does is he watches fox news all day and tweets out their videos and he tweets all day well how yeah right how can he be doing that and then also doing what we think you should do look i don't have any time and all i do is do podcasts that's right so i watch him and i'm like this doesn't make any fucking sense no so here's the thing And there was a story that was reported before he became president. I think it was after he got the Republican nomination. There was this interesting story that it wasn't discussed too much, but I thought it was fascinating because the Trump team apparently approached John Kasich, who's just like kind of a standard

establishment Republican. He was the governor of maybe in Ohio, but I'm not sure. It was one of those states over there. But anyway. It was Ohio. So he approached John Kasich and basically said to him behind the scenes, hey, listen, man, if I end up winning this election, I want you to kind of like be my vice president, run the day-to-day at the White House, take care, dot all the I's, cross all the T's,

do all the work like that. And I want to go around the country and keep doing rallies and rile up everybody and get everybody to our side. So basically, and this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. What's that? If you win, why do you have to rile everybody up? Well, see, he's the first president to never stop campaigning. He's always campaigning.

He's always doing rallies. And there's a reason why he's doing that, Joe. It's the only thing he loves on this earth. It's that and watching Fox News that he loves. So that's what he does with all of his time. And everything else, yes, he's just... See, this is the thing, Joe. He took all these deeply establishment figures.

Steve Mnuchin of Goldman Sachs. Stephen, I'm forgetting his name, Cohn, something Cohn, Cohen, Cohn. Another guy from Goldman Sachs. He had all these just career insiders, brought them into his administration, whether it's with the economy or with foreign policy. John Bolton, deep neoconservative. He said he believed in the opposite philosophy, with foreign policy, John Bolton, deep neoconservative. He said he believed in the opposite philosophy, but then he puts John Bolton in power because he wants the system to keep running as it is and run smoothly

while he goes around and just makes the name for himself and talks about how amazing and tremendous this country is and what an amazing job we're doing. So it's funny because he has two different personas. One of them is, I'm going to pretend to be the anti-establishment guy and rally people up non-stop and be a politician and be good at it and then the other thing is behind the scenes he's like guys just keep everything running and and you know hold it together with duct tape if you have to before i get out of here so he's at the same time he's acting like the most anti-establishment president of all time when he's on the campaign trail he's also the most deeply pro-establishment candidate in terms of or president in terms of what he's actually doing so it's a fascinating

dynamic that's going on right now it's a giant hustle that's right it's a giant hustle and listen man and other people on the left might disagree with me on this but i think he's fucking brilliant at it i think he's brilliant at this part of it but where he he really does have a way like he broke every single political rule that ever existed when he ran for president and he won so what does that tell you that tells you that the rules are nonsense the problem is who is he running against i don't think that would have worked if he was running against obama i think hillary is such a deeply flawed candidate and so many people despised her and during the me too era like her creepy fucking husband is just looming in the

distance like nosferatu i mean how many women have come out and accused that guy of sexual assault and rape and and he's still hovering i mean he's still around and that's always gonna haunt her she's connected to that guy forever on On this topic, there's an amazing story. So during the election, remember when the story broke of Trump on video saying, I grabbed him by the pussy, I don't even wait, and everybody blew up, and all the mainstream media talking heads were like, oh my god, it's over. He's going to drop out. It's over. It's done. What did Trump do at that next debate? This was actually low-key political brilliance. Instead of doing what every other politician would have done which is basically kind of give in a little bit and be like all right you got me what he did he leased a short apology video real quick

got out of the way then the next night was a debate at the debate joe he brought like eight bill clinton accusers yeah put them in the audience yeah and then he goes out there on stage and when he's asked the question the first thing thing he says is, listen, I'm not proud of what I said. It wasn't a good thing what I said, but what I did was just words. What Bill Clinton did was actions, folks. It was actions. So if you want to see who the real problem is, he's sitting right there in the audience. And the brilliance of that move is, this is politics 101.

Never really go on defense. Your best defense is a really good offense. So he made it a wash all of a sudden this issue which was supposed to be oh my god it's the end of donald trump now the whole conversation shifted to i mean damn there are a lot of accusations against bill aren't there so maybe this is a wash and we could just kind of move on from this topic completely that's all he had to do yeah and you see with every single scandal that trump's involved in you see how incredibly pathetic and ineffectual and weak the Democrats are at marketing and strategizing. And you see how good he is because he is, no matter

what it is, he's going to flip it. He's going to flip it back on you. So the new thing is the Ukraine thing. I don't know how closely you've been following this, but the Ukraine thing, he basically got caught on a phone call asking for dirt on his political opponents, Joe Biden. He was talking to the president of Ukraine and he said it in so many words. I mean, he likes to say there was no quid pro quo, but there doesn't have to be. It's implied. Everybody knows what you're asking for. You're asking for dirt on your political opponent. So everybody's melting down and going, oh, my God, man, you can't do that.

This is violating every rule. This is violating every norm. This is not something any president should be doing, relying on a foreign power to get dirt on your political opponents. What does Trump do? Again, goes right back on the offense, and he goes out there and says i have every right as president to investigate corruption and joe biden is incredibly corrupt and all i'm doing is i'm you know trying to figure out why was hunter biden getting 50 000 from an energy company he doesn't know anything about energy why is he getting this and so now

again the conversation isn't man he trump shouldn't have been doing that the conversation is okay sure maybe trump shouldn't be doing that but goddamn joe biden's son and joe biden's family is really corrupt aren't they well how about the video where you you saw the video where trump released it where it was biden talking about yeah the loan like explain that okay so this one i'll give you what the democrats say and i'll give you what the Republicans say. The Democrats say, hey, man, that's a misleading video because, yes, it's true. Biden was holding a billion dollar subsidy over the head of Ukraine to fire a prosecutor. But Biden wanted to get rid of the corrupt prosecutor and bring in a non-corrupt prosecutor. That's why he was doing what he did and holding that subsidy over their head.

And they say the prosecutor that eventually came into place actually investigated the biden family more so that's why the democrats say there's you know you're you're kind of misleading by putting this out there the argument that trump is making is well no you're holding a billion dollar subsidy over the head of a foreign government and saying you have to listen to us and do x y and z that's problematic in and of itself yeah but furthermore it's like it's corruption anyway we know that the only reason hunter biden was getting paid fifty thousand dollars a month and actually now people are saying it's not fifty thousand it's eighty three thousand dollars a month um is because his last name is biden and so it's pay to play corruption

eighty three thousand dollars a month is a lot of fucking money and this is where i think like democrats are silly because they always find the weakest anti-trump argument possible and now they're put in a position where they have to try to say like oh the biden's did nothing wrong at all and trump is all bad and bottom line nobody's going to believe that the biden's did nothing wrong when you're getting 83 000 a month and you don't know anything about natural gas right what was the justification for the 83 000 i don't even know what they give is the justification i mean the only thing i heard from i I think it was Ted Lieu, he's a Democratic congressman, was, you know, hey man, people sit on boards and there was nothing wrong there, which is really weak. But here's the thing, and this is, again, why the Democrats drive me crazy, is like, they picked the weakest of all anti-Trump arguments. So they wanted to use this as like, oh, we're going to try to impeach him over this, and this is going to be the thing that we're going to hang our hat on.

And Nancy Pelosi even said, we're going to limit the scope of the impeachment this and this is going to be the thing that we're going to hang our hat on and nancy pelosi even said we're going to limit the scope of the impeachment investigation to only this only the ukraine phone call and then somebody like me i'm sitting there i'm pulling my hair out because i could actually give you like three or four super legitimate things that are impeachment worthy not that i think it strategically makes sense and we can get into that if you want to but like the one that drives me crazy is donald trump has a hotel in washington dc that he owns okay he took three hundred thousand dollars through that hotel from the saudi government so they're funneling him money through his hotel in dc and then donald trump turns around and gives a multi-billion dollar weapons deal to the saudi government as they're

committing a genocide in yemen we know they're committing a genocide in Yemen, we know that we're arming them, and he gave them even more weapons because he got that money through his hotel. So, for me, I'm looking at that and I'm going, oh my God, this scandal has everything. It's got personal corruption, it's got guns going to a vicious, genocidal country. What was the money for, the money in the hotel?

Okay, so what they did is, they had these little retreats at the hotel and saudi arabia would pay for u.s veterans to go and stay at these hotels and they would i don't know if it's like tours of the capital or whatever it is but they pay for these veteran groups to go to the hotel but then of course you look at it and you go i don't know man three hundred thousand dollars and the speculation is well of course they overpaid on purpose. But furthermore, even if they didn't, Jimmy Carter had to sell his peanut farm when he was president because the idea was, hey, we're not even saying you're doing anything corrupt,

but just the fact that you have this personal private business, it is theoretically possible that foreign governments want to give you money through your peanut farm, so you have to sell it because just the existence of it enough it is enough to say it violates the emoluments clause of the constitution which is just a fancy way of saying that the president can't be corrupt and take money from foreign governments and trump is doing that he just is right so this three hundred thousand dollars though this is for services rendered this is for hotel rooms well that's what they say is it's for i guess the meals in the hotel rooms and whatnot i hate to say it this way but that's not a lot of money

to someone like them well you know but then what i always think about when people make that point is you have to flip it what would we be saying if it was the clinton foundation getting three hundred thousand dollars from the saudi government and then hillary clinton the secretary of state approving a weapons deal to saudi arabia and the fact of the is, that actually is almost exactly like what happened with the Clinton Foundation. Because Bill Clinton was going around and giving speeches at all these Gulf dictatorships. And then he was getting 500,000 bucks a pop or whatever it was. And then Hillary Clinton was approving weapons deals as Secretary of State. But I feel like that's a little bit more egregious because his speeches are worthless.

Like at least the hotel rooms, it's like real. It's real food. It's meals. Like that actually costs money. These speeches are worthless. That's a, in my opinion, those speeches are a transparent bribe. So do you think though that a president should be able to have private businesses that foreign governments can pay him any amount of money? No, I don't think so.

I don't. But I just don't think they're comparable. I think the Clinton Foundation was egregiously gross. Right. I think both of those things are egregiously gross. And I do think it influences him. I think it sure influences him because there's a deal. They have a deal.

Even if it's only $300,000, which I know most people hear this, they're like, that's a lot of money. It's a lot of money to me, but is it a lot of money to a billionaire? I don't necessarily think it is. And it's also a lot of money that goes through his organization and that it costs money to make that money. So how much profit is that? Out of $300,000, it's not that much profit.

With $500,000 a speech, that's one talk for one hour, and it costs nothing for him. And he's making a half a million dollars, and he did it over and over and over and over and over again. And it was all under the guise of the Clinton Foundation is doing this great charitable work all across the country and all across the world. And that to me was more transparently disgusting. Yeah. So I understand why you would say that, but I also think that there's a problem with it in principle. So I would just nip it in the bud, no questions asked. But beyond that, there's also other stuff too. I'm just giving you one example. So there's the other thing, which again, very few people spoke about or recognized, that during the campaign, Donald Trump registered eight new businesses in Saudi Arabia. So, again, when you're running for president, it's a public service.

You're trying to serve your country. And you shouldn't intertwine business with that in any way, shape, or form. There's another one. I believe he has a hotel in uh in turkey and now his argument by the way is no it's okay because i transferred all this to my kids so while i'm president my kids take run my businesses and take care of it but i think that's just a total nonsense dodge because you're still your family is still profiting from it and here's a crazy fact joe and this one what really just blew my mind um with trump in office in one year jared and ivanka made i think it was 82 or 83 million dollars in one year how through through their

businesses and they say oh there's nothing to see here there's no problem but then you dig into the specifics and yet again you see so many sketchy things like jared kushner got like millions of dollars from israel Israeli banks why and then this is the guy who they say it's okay he's going to broker a peace deal between Israel and Palestine one of the sides is giving him millions of dollars you think that's going to be a fair peace deal it's going to be the most lopsided peace deal in history and this is the problem is that and again for the Trump example it's just that he kind of rips the mask off and shows you what everybody's doing um but it's not like it didn't happen with Bill Clinton it's just that he kind of rips the mask off and shows you what everybody's doing um but

it's not like it didn't happen with bill clinton it's not like like with barack obama it was wall street appointed his entire administration i believe he got a list from city group to to you know put people in his cabinet and it's like this is the way the system functions and my opinion is it should you shouldn't be taking money from foreign governments you shouldn't be taking money from corporations because you're going to be biased in favor of those countries and in favor like look at what happened with jamal khashoggi and trump i mean they killed a journalist they killed a journalist and they didn't even get a slap on the wrist it was nothing why again because we're so intertwined with them with business relations, and he is making money from them.

Where is that right now? Where's what? The Jamal Khashoggi thing? Yes. As far as I know, it's dead in the water. That's crazy. But this, again, look at the difference between how they talk about stuff like this when it's a U.S. ally versus when it's not a U.S. ally. When it's a U.S. ally like Saudi Arabia that does it, there's nothing to see here. But if you get a similar story coming out of Iran, for example, who's not a U.S. ally, or they love to go after Maduro, and I'm not saying he's a good guy, but they go after

Maduro because he's not a U.S. ally, so they could harp away on all the negative things about him. But we're not having a conversation about Jamal Khashoggi. We're not having a conversation about people being beheaded in the public square for stuff like sorcery, Joe. They kill people in Saudi Arabia for sorcery and witchcraft and drug smuggling and apostasy. If you don't think God is real and you say that in Saudi Arabia, they could kill you. They could cut your head off in the public square.

Are they really killing people for sorcery? Yes. Really? Yes. They're killing people for sorcery. It's crazy. The Khashoggi thing is super disturbing because it seems like everybody's like, well, what are you going to do?

Eh, what are you going to do? I know. I mean, it would have been cleaner if they just made him have some sort of heart attack or an accident or something along those lines. If there was plausible deniability in any way. The way they did it, it's almost like this guy wanted them to do it a certain way.

He wanted them to chop this guy up and put him in bags and deliver him out of the country in suitcases and shit or whatever the fuck they did however they got rid of him you know it's such a disturbing decision that they made yeah and they know they're going to get away with it and again this is what happens right it's been over a year they have they absolutely have when was the murder how long ago i want last time i was on the podcast we spoke about it and last time i was on the podcast was a year ago so it was over a year ago it's just whatever again if they're our ally that means i mean they really do there's so much business that goes on between the u.s and saudi arabia and the weapons deals and everything that the argument trump trump actually made this

argument in the white house sitting next to you know the the Saudi crown prince he's like they're they're buying so many weapons it's so tremendous the weapons they're buying and he holds up like the pictures of this from Raytheon this is what he's getting this is from Boeing this is what he's getting and it's like oh my god imagine for a second it's anybody like imagine it was a deal like that with uh Kim Jong-un he's like we're selling kim jong-un these tremendous weapons didn't he threaten us today who i didn't see if kim jong-un didn't kim jong-un threaten us today i think they i was waiting to show you this oh we got here saudi arabia's anti-witchcraft unit breaks another spell what the unit established in 2009

is charged with apprehending sorcerers and reversing the detrimental effects of their spells in the Gulf country. Let me see the picture. Scroll up for the picture. Oh, my God. That's not much. That looks like Baghdad Bob. You remember Baghdad Bob?

From? From the Iraq war, when Iraq was getting slaughtered. He was like, everything's great. Iraq's kicking ass. Do you remember that guy? Yes, I do remember that. He was like their's great Iraq's kicking ass Do you remember that guy? Yes I do remember that He was like Their ministry of propaganda guy

Yeah Yeah It's like Ahmed Shalabi The guy who they wanted to be What is When the severed head of a wolf Wrapped in woman's lingerie Turned up near the city of

How do you say that? Tabuk? I have no idea In northern Saudi Arabia This week Authorities knew They had another case Of rich witchcraft

On their hands A capital offense In the ultra-conservative desert kingdom. Is that really what it is? Is that conservative? Boy, that term is like way too wide. I think both are. I think the idea like liberal, conservative, it casts such a wide net. And then people like to get sneaky and use, no, I'm a classic liberal.

Yeah. Oh, what is that? What is that? Exactly. You're a fucking Republican. And it's funny because there's actually, when you actually look at the textbook definition of a lot of these terms, they have multiple meanings. Yes.

So classical liberal in some instances means just like libertarian because that's what it used to mean back in the day. But in today's day and age, like you said, it could mean you're kind of right-leaning. Yeah. It's more right of center right they call classical liberal is a very it's it's a it's a misleading term you know it's like i'm a casual racist you know i mean i'm not i'm not a racist the way people are by the way people are gonna come after you for saying that because they're gonna say oh are you saying classical liberals are racist no no i'm not saying that i know it's an analogy but i'm

saying it's like you're you're like like okay if you call someone a racist that's what they're gonna say no i'm not saying that i know it's an analogy but i'm saying it's like you're you're too like like okay if you call someone a racist that's someone who discriminates against people purely in the basis of their ethnicity where they're born what they look like what part of the world they're from but what if what if you said well i'm a casual racist i only discriminate against young Chinese guys who dress up like black guys. That's my only beef. I think people would still be really pissed. Sure they would. And they should be.

But it's like the word is weird. Yeah, sure. That's a bad example. But if you said, like classical liberal. Classical liberal is, it's a British term, correct? Well, I think it originally dates back to it was a it's a british term correct well i think it it originally dates back to it was a way of describing libertarianism that was what they used because i think it referred to liberalizing the markets let's look at the perfect yeah that's the exact definition

that's one of those where i hear people say that and they go well that guy's republican why is he calling himself a classical liberal yeah it's yes my point and and i don't like labels period because they're so amorphous and and people can say you if you you can ask people like did you know for example in the democratic primary in 2016 self-described conservative democrats supported bernie sanders over hillary clinton even though bernie sanders is literally further to the left than hillary clinton so again that just shows people don't know labels. When you say conservative Democrats though, maybe they're just not into interventional foreign policy and I mean, she's kind of a warmonger.

Right, and this gets back to the point of labels being so amorphous that... Here it goes. Sorry. Classical liberalism is a political ideology in the branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties under the rule of law with an emphasis on economic freedom. That's what I was referring to. So that's sort of libertarian,'s libertarianism so that's like less rules right right deregulate the

marketplace it'll take free market will take care of it capitalism unfettered is the best kind of capitalism closely related to economic liberalism it developed in the early 19th century building on the ideas from the previous century as a response to urbanization and the industrial revolution in Europe and the United States. Notable individuals whose ideas contributed to classical liberalism include John Locke, John Baptista Say, Thomas Robert Malthus, and I don't know any of these guys. I don't know who that is. Thomas Robert Malthus, and I don't know any of these guys. It drew in a classical economic idea as espoused by Adam Smith in book one of The Wealth of Nations. Yeah, you know that guy.

Do I? Adam Smith? Yeah. Yeah, he's viewed as the godfather of free market thought in many ways. I mean, there's other ones. Don't get me wrong. There's Milton Friedman, of course, and there's Hayek, and there's von Mises, but Adam Smith is definitely one that's cited a lot. He's the one where everybody talks about the individual hand of the marketplace. That's who they're citing when they talk about the free hand of the marketplace or however the saying goes.

Look at this expression. Book one of the Wealth of Nations and on a belief in natural law, utilitarianism And progress What does that mean? Natural law, utilitarianism, and progress? Well, utilitarianism means Doing the best for the largest number of people Yeah, but what does natural law mean? Adam Smith in One Book for the Wealth of Nations

And on a belief in natural law Click on that, Jamie What does that mean? We're going down a rabbit hole here i just the natural law of money from the book oh so i think what i think what it's referring to is like supply and demand and how the way the marketplace works there are natural laws as to how it works and the idea is it's always a negative thing when you try to tweak those laws. It works best when you take a hands-off approach. The problem with that, I mean, there's a lot of problems with that. But the problem with that clearly is that when there has been regulation

for long periods of time, and you just step back, you're going to have a massive period of chaos until things do settle. If you do let the market decide, I would imagine there's going to be a period when the deregulation takes place. There's going to be a lot of people that get fucked over. Absolutely. I mean, we actually have quite a bit of evidence on this front because we've run this experiment like a thousand times in US history alone. But as a general rule, whenever you do market deregulation and whenever you cut taxes for the very wealthy, there what's called a boom bust cycle which means everything takes off everything seems like it's wonderful the good times seem like they're never going to end remember the roaring 20s they called it the roaring 20s because it was like oh my god the market is soaring everything's going so

well and then it was followed by the great depression and then you saw it again actually in uh the end of the clinton years because clinton repealed glass deagle which was a very important piece of regulation um and then uh under the bush as well, he further deregulated and cut taxes for the rich. And what happened? We had the subprime mortgage crisis and the Great Recession. So as a general rule, it's not like all regulation is good, full stop. It depends what the regulation is. But to argue in favor of regulation of the marketplace is like arguing in favor of referees in a soccer game or whatever.

You need some amount of enforcement of things that make sense like i love when libertarians argue like you know well what even like think about would you want to have no fda at all looking after the drugs that are out there exactly it's ridiculous and you could sell stuff that's cut with substances that could end up killing you i mean this is actually what happened in prohibition they used during prohibition they used to make alcohol in bathtubs and cut it with substances that were very dangerous and so every now and then there would be a bad batch of alcohol and people would die because the way they made the alcohol had no regulation and no standards like what happens today with drugs exactly yes and that's when i mean we could talk about uh i'm sure

you saw what happened with that standoff between the Mexican military and the drug cartel. Dude, they beat the government in a standoff, in a battle. And they ended up freeing El Chapo's son. Well, did you see when the Sicario showed up and just started talking to the people in the Mexican military? Yes. And the Mexican military was like, hey, we're just trying to stay alive here.'s what do we got to do like let them go and they're like okay and sounds good listen it's such a tough situation because the the drug cartel was just going to start massacring people yes if they didn't release them so if you're the president of mexico if you're amlo

what do you do i mean if i'm in his position i go hey man i can't have you doing a genocide in a village in mexico and they're under resourced there's not a lot of people and the mexican cartel has an unstoppable amount of money joe the only way to defeat the cartels is to legalize tax and regulate drugs yeah because that's how you put them out of business they can't compete with legitimate businesses they can't compete like let's say we had all these growing operations in the u.s and it was legal at a federal level in the united states what is somebody going to want to do? Are they going to want to go to a back alley with a sketchy character to get some drugs? Are they going to want to go to Walgreens? Well, I had the author of Hidden War on the podcast. His name

is John Norris. And John Norris, he got a job initially as a game warden because, you know, he grew up in the outdoors and fishing and hunting and things like that. And he wanted to be a game warden. Well, along the way, they started finding these Mexican grow-ups, these cartel grow-ups all over California. And it got even worse, believe it or not, when they made marijuana legal because now these grow-ups are just a misdemeanor. It's no longer a felony. So if you have 100 acres on public land that you've decided to revert this, take the water from this creek and send it down there and it kills a bunch of fish, it's just a misdemeanor for the guys growing the drugs.

So there's more doing it. Yes, there's more doing it. And now 80% of all the illegal marijuana that's being grown and sold in the United States, a rough estimate, is coming from these cartel grow-ups, and a lot of them are using these pesticides that are very fucking dangerous. Right, yeah. See, it's because they could just do it. They could just set up shop,

and, you know, they go to the National Forest, they go to public lands, they hike in with, like, fucking tubes, like, hoses and shit on their back so they can revert these creeks, or divert these creeks, rather, and they set up these grow-ups, and they bring guns,

and they fucking set up shop shop and so these guys these uh game wardens became like a paramilitary operation they had to go in there with dogs that's scary dude yes and they they they had to get trained tactically and these guys wound up being these people that had to take down members of the cartel that's super scary woods yeah and i think that we have this weird gray area situation in the united states right now where certain states have legalized it for recreational use certain states have it for medical use but at the federal level it's still illegal right and if it became legal then these cartel operations would have to go out of business absolutely it wouldn't be valuable wouldn't be valuable they'd have to move on to

something else and then that would open a whole another pandora's box because what do you do let's say you only legalize tax and regulate marijuana well then they might just move on to there might be more cocaine or more whatever it might be but they're doing that with meth they're they figured out a way to grow meth um with plants they figured out a way to make meth with plants this is a new thing. They haven't been able to do this before. Meth had always been done with, which is another thing we need to talk about,

Sudafed. What a good conversation that is. But finish the thought on this one, though. Sudafedrin. When you go to, in California at least, say if you've got a cold and you want to buy some strong, over-the-counter cold meds, you have to give your driver's license. And they only sell you a little bit.

The reason being is because people used to just buy everything off the shelf, throw it into a basket, bring it up to the counter, and they would use that stuff to make meth with. Because it's one of the ingredients. You can actually boil it all down. I don't know the process, but you can make meth out of cold medication. Well, these fucking guys have figured out how to do this shit with plants now. Okay. That's what we were going to get to in a minute. We're going to get to.

We'll get to that. Go to that. Go to that. Okay. Plant-based meth is the next frontier of Afghanistan's drug trade. So investigators have uncovered a burgeoning local trade in the production Of methamphetamine using a Mountain shrub See like now let me ask you this

Question because I'm a little torn on this next one But I'm of the belief that if you Like let's say you Legalize lower level Uppers or amphetamines Okay so let's say you have a more benign Version of all of these kinds of drugs That are legal and available It's called Adder no no but you still have to go to a

doctor and get a prescription for that i'm talking about over the counter right okay so do you think that because i think that would not fully eliminate the market for the much harder stuff but it would i think eliminate a majority of that market because if somebody yes right because somebody goes and gets you know a more safer alternative That might not be as strong But you can go get a safer alternative Or get a bunch of a safer alternative Then Yeah

Why wouldn't you choose that Over doing like Crocodile The one that melts off your skin If you do it for like a year But that's like a heroin one That's like a heroin one The speed ones

Are the ones that are interesting Because they're productivity drugs And that brings us to Trump Let's do it This is so much fun There's a There's is so much fun there's a there's a photograph of him it's a classic photograph because it's after i love mexicans yeah he was talking shit about uh you know the wall and it's all rapists and murderers that is

i think this was cinco de mayo if i remember correctly so he's eating a taco bowl and the bowl says i mean he says i I love Hispanics, I think. And I remember watching that, looking at that photograph going, is this motherfucker for real? He really tweeted that? I love Hispanics and he's eating a fucking taco bowl? Well, the open desk drawer, somebody focused in on it and they realized, this is like years later, they realized that it's all filled with Sudafed. This is like years later.

They realized that it's all filled with Sudafed. And Sudafed is, again, the active ingredient. One of the ingredients in Sudafed is the active ingredient in meth. And so apparently people take Sudafed. And if you take that stuff, it gives you like a little bit of a buzz. And if you take large doses of Sudafed, it's essentially like taking, like he's microdosing. He's microdosing meth. It's actually a little deeper than that, which makes it even funnier. Deeper?

Yes, because there's a certain form of Sudafed that they sell in the United States. And then there's a UK version of Sudafed. And the UK version of Sudafed has that ingredient to it, which is more of an upper. It kind of acts like an amphetamine. Look at this. It says the desk drawer full of Sudafed, including boxes in new york purchased in the uk indicate that the legal limits of purchase are being circumvented and that the then candidate trump was abusing pseudofed for its high rather than its decongestant effect okay so there's that now i want to take it a step

further because i don't know if you watch this video I sent you a while ago, but I was absolutely floored by the contrast between the speech Trump gave at CPAC this year and then the speech Trump gave at the UN this year. The CPAC one, Joe totally off script, bouncing off the walls, an hour and 30 minutes, hands moving all over the place so active so engaging making jokes all this stuff hilarious and then you go to the un speech joey's talking like this and he says and he literally he was so tired he couldn't even say the word sovereignty he quit halfway through it he was like and that's why we need to protect sovereigns yeah and so i if you want to pull that up jamie if you want to watch some of it you can see the contrast pacman's show pacman had david pacman had a an episode where he was concentrating on this alleged drug use by trump and he showed the contrast of him sniffing

at the debates with hillary clinton yeah he did yeah, this whole conglomeration of all of his sniffing moments. This, uh. And let me just say, in Trump's defense, if I was president, I'd be taking some shit too, because that's a tough job. And also, don't lie, when he does a rally and he's high as balls on an upper, they're entertaining. Oh, yeah. And I'm the first one on the left to admit, his Twitter feed, I feel bad sometimes because he genuinely makes me laugh.

I remember, I'll never forget the morning I woke up and I go on Twitter, which is part of my morning routine, and the first words I see are from the President of the United States. And it says, washed up psycho Bette Midler. And I just saw that first part of the tweet And I broke down laughing It was the funniest thing ever He makes me laugh all the time He's done a bunch of shit On his Twitter

That you're just like This motherfucker Is crazy Yeah What was the ones That we were talking about Recently that he did Was it a

Or he tweeted Something was bullshit Yeah I don't remember What he was saying Was bullshit But like that he tweeted Those words was pretty funny

Yeah Yeah Well his Trumpisms Like the little side things That he always does Makes me laugh Like the all caps randomly I don't remember what he was saying was bullshit, but like that he tweeted those words was pretty funny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, his Trumpisms, like the little side things that he always does makes me laugh. Like the all caps randomly. Yeah. Or sometimes he'll capitalize letters for no reason in the tweet. Well, it was great when he was the fucking host of The Apprentice.

Yeah. That's when it was great. Yeah. It was like he was an entertaining character. It's just now that he's the president, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is real? Yeah. just now that he's the president it's like whoa whoa whoa this is real yeah i mean i i'm i'm curious what percentage of the population is like my mom who really values the idea of somebody kind of being buttoned down and presidential and very professional sounding yeah because that used to be the model and that used to help you in the 1980s and 1990s but i genuinely feel like in

today's day and age we've kind of like evolved out of that and you're not going to get another mitt romney style politician who's like a robot who's really on script you're going to get either a left-wing version or right-wing version of somebody who's really kind of shooting from the hip and has no filter because that no filter ism comes across as just so much more genuine even if he sounds fucking crazy when he talks even if he sounds fucking crazy right i think that's also the same thing with news. That's the same thing with news reporters. That's why I'm here, Joe. Exactly.

Right. And that's why your show works, too. You talk like you're talking right now. Absolutely. I mean, and we would be going to dinner tonight. We would talk the same way. That's right. Yeah.

Exactly. That doesn't exist anywhere else. And you would see these people that are buttoned down and then you'd find out behind closed doors they're freaks you know and then this is it leads everybody to wonder like what what is real what is real that's right someone does talk real and they're like i'm pretty sure that is who that fucking guy is like he's he's that way all the time that's why he's talking that way so with trump they're like okay at least i know what that is i mean that's a crazy guy who's on speed and he wants to make a lot of money and he doesn't want to yell at saudi arabia because he's he's making money off of them okay why i know what that is with clinton like especially her like you don't

know what the fuck that is you get the sense that there's multiple layers of analysis like and she said it and this was released from wikileaks there's a public position and a private position well when the whole position thing when she called tulsi gabbard a russian asset and i was like what like what are you what is this like joe let me tell you something you gotta have fucking proof if you are a person who that never stopped them but but i know but in when you're saying something like that that's such a fucking important thing to say. Like, that's a very damning thing to say. She's a major in the military right now.

She's in the military. Yes. Right. And they're like, yeah, well, she's a Russian. Two tours of duty. Russian asset. She's done two tours of duty in the Middle East. And you know why they say that, too, right?

Because Tulsi Gabbard has spoken strongly against intervention in syria war in syria the argument goes hey vladimir putin and russia are aligned with the syrian government they're allies therefore if you're arguing against u.s intervention in syria your argument benefits putin that's how their argument goes then they also say and this turned out to be totally debunked and not true oh there's an army of russian trolls that are trying to help Tulsi Gabbard win the election Yeah, and Joe, but this is the thing that they pull out for anybody who's on the left and anti-war This is what they pulled. I've been accused of it before I've been accused of being a Russian puppet and a Russian asset

Yeah, and it's like no are you controlled opposition? Yeah, my controlled opposition and the funny thing is Joe they do this because they cannot actually have a conversation with me and and disagree with me when i talk about policy right of course so i when i sit there and i explain hey here's why medicare for all is the way to go and here's why a public option is nonsense and here's why our current system is terrible they want to defend the status quo but they cannot defend the status quo using arguments so they have to just lump me off and put me to the side and say well he shouldn't even be allowed in the conversation because he's a russian asset and he's not serious but the thing is the the reason why their argument holds some weight at all is because of the ira the internet research agency and that the the work they've done that

was exposed the russian stuff where they're making all these different facebook twitter and instagram accounts and they're using them to start to start wars like essentially to start arguments with people about anything and everything to slander people to support people you know to say you know as a black woman i could never support hillary clinton and then they make these arguments and it's not really a black woman's account it's a russian and it's part of this Russian research agency that Renee DiResta exposed. Have you ever paid attention to any of her work? No, I haven't. But I'm very skeptical on this point because they always make it seem like if that didn't happen, that we's millions and millions of engagements, and it flavors conversations. And for a lot of people, and this is a giant percentage of people, they do not have time to deeply research and understand these things thoroughly. They don't.

No one does. They have jobs, and they have mortgages, and they have children, and they have hobbies, and they have friends, and they're doing all kinds of shit when they have their time off. They don't have enough time to truly research, like was Ted Cruz involved in the Kennedy assassination? You know what I mean? Like when you hear a rumor like that, those kind of crazy, ridiculous rumors, they just spread. They just spread.

And they spread primarily because most people don't have the time to look into these things. So if you have something like the Internet Research Agency that's been shown to start a bunch of accounts, like they have Black Lives Matter accounts, they have separatist Texas separatist accounts where they want Texas to secede from the union and to start their own nation. And then they have these pro-Muslim accounts, and then they have all these different accounts, and they've even organized meetings where they'll have the pro-Texas account meeting across the street

from this Muslim meeting. And they'll do it on purpose. They'll do it just to try to get people to fight. And they have these two different facebook pages that they're running and they're running them with these propped up ideologies they're pretending that they're this they're pretending they're a black lives matter organization or they're pretending that you know they're uh puerto ricans for trump like it's all it's but it's madness it's all just starting fights and causing these arguments. Right.

And they're doing this to try to, even if it's 1% or 10%, if they can disrupt democracy by 4%, 5%, here or there, it's incredibly effective. If they can get a narrative going and they can sustain that narrative a bullshit narrative just through you know coming up with these fake things it has an effect how much of an effect i don't know but it's an effect if it's one percent if it's two percent if they can get a meme past people and you start spreading it through facebook and a lot of them she said she looked over a hundred thousand memes and she's like some of them were fucking hilarious and you're reading these and you're laughing and you realize well they're making these things to to make people laugh and also to try to get a point across and that point is to you know to try to paint hillary

clinton as of this or paint joe biden as of that or paint you know and what they're doing is they're starting these groups and these groups will argue against other groups and people just kind of go along like sheep and they don't even know who's behind the whole thing they really think this black lives matters group is like african americans that are you know tired of police brutality but it's not it's these guys in russia they're just starting shit see but that's weird see i hear you But at the same time, the thing that is, uh,

has kind of shocked me is the degree to which this is relied upon and used as the scapegoat to, to not talk about sometimes things that are very real issues. And I know, cause it's been done. Like they said with Bernie Sanders, there was this Russian troll farm meme created of Bernie Sanders. It's like like he's like rainbow colored and he's doing like a you know a pose where he's showing his bicep or whatever right and like that was then used by mainstream media

to say why is why is russia trying to prop up bernie sanders why is he trying to prop up bernie sanders so they try to make it seem like oh bernie's like a russian puppet and a russian asset and if you support him well you've just been duped to support him. And so it's kind of used as this catch-all thing where it's like, if I try to bring up a real issue, they say, well, Russia wants you to talk about that. Why are you talking about that? See, this is three-dimensional chess, though. This is part of the whole dispute.

Part of the whole dispute is you see something like that, and then people say, why does Russia want Bernie Sanders to be president? Why are they propping up Bernie Sanders? And then this becomes even a more confusing argument. Like if they do do something like that and they create these funny memes and try to prop up Bernie Sanders. And then the argument comes in like, why does Russia want Bernie Sanders to win? Everything's getting convoluted. Everything is muddy.

Nobody understands what the fuck is going on. That's the point. The point is to sow seeds of doubt and to sort of disrupt democracy. The point is to do this very cheaply and easily through internet accounts. And this is the idea behind it. And if you listen to Sam Harris's podcast with Diresta or the podcast that I did with her, and when she goes into depth about this, you know, understanding this and how much time she spent researching this IRA, this Internet Research Agency in Russia, and all the work that they do, and they have people working 24 hours a day on this shit. And they're doing it specifically under the behest of the government to try to fuck with democracy i just think we have to be really careful point taken i just think we have to be really careful to make

sure that that doesn't distract us from focusing on issues that really do matter because oftentimes i've seen that's invoked to kind of shut up the talk about real issues and i'd also add on top of that as well the dirty little secret that we never talk about in this country is that we actually are doing the exact same thing. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And I remember that they created

like a whole fake website or a whole fake app for Cuba. It was supposed to be like Cuba's version of Twitter. And it was just all US created. And it was all trying to control the narrative. Yeah, I remember the story from about two years or so ago. And what was it?

Like, oh, fuck America? Fuck whitey communism rules? No, I'm not sure. No, they were trying to do the opposite. They were trying to say, like, ooh, doesn't communism suck? Isn't it awesome to be subversive? Don't you? Like, they were trying to kind of get an grassroots uprising against the government there.

Also, they were doing it for Cuba, not doing it. They were doing it to try to what they think is you know free cuba u.s secretly created cuban twitter to stir unrest and undermine government i mean there's listen this is a tool right there's hundreds and hundreds of tools they use isn't it sad that this is what like unfortunately in so many ways this is what politics has become because you and i can sit here and we could have a really good conversation about the minimum wage. What are the pros and cons of it? What do the polls say on the minimum wage?

You know, if we went down that path, how would it impact the broader economy? We could have a conversation about unionization. We could have a conversation about health care. We could have a conversation about foreign policy. And you and I can bounce ideas off each other. We could talk about market regulation, all this stuff. But, like, that's just not what dominates political culture in today's america because you just have this dumbed down

conversation where the entire conversation is about stuff like this or the entire conversation is about um the the individual cult of personality aspect of politics yeah and that's just really upsetting to a guy like me because what if we actually have that conversation on policy i think there's so much more agreement in this country than people realize you know and oftentimes what i say is if you and i sit here and have a conversation we agree on something that's you know it's a pretty damn good bet that that's a solid position that a lot of people agree with but if two politicians in washington d.C. agree on something, look out, because oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, they're agreeing to screw you, and that's what just happened with, again, this was about a year or so ago, there was all these headlines, bipartisan consensus

and agreement on a piece of legislation, it was all like flowery, happy language, they agreed to further deregulate Wall Street, which again, is the thing that led to the subprime mortgage crisis in the great recession and this is what you get agreement on between democrats and republicans in washington dc every now and then you'll get two good things like you know bernie sanders and rand paul coming together bernie sanders and mike lee to agree war is bad and we shouldn't aid a genocide in yemen okay that's wonderful we all agree that but most of the time it's like let's agree to further help out wall street let's

agree to further uh artificially prop up u.s institutions let's agree to wall street bailouts let's agree to more funding for the military industrial complex and it's like it would we would be so much better off if and this is an idea that i've been pushing for a while now imagine we had a law where every time we had to vote in a presidential election, the people got to vote directly on the top three issues impacting the country, and that became law. So let's say in the next presidential election, one of the questions is, so it's a national direct ballot initiative law. And one of the questions could be, should marijuana be legal, taxed, and regulated at a federal level? Yes or no. And then the American people vote on it. And whatever we say, that

becomes law. So then it would be like 65% in favor of of it and so we'd win on that one and you can go down the list and you can have the three most important issues and that's a way joe i think to circumvent the corruption in washington dc i mean one way is you got you can fight to get money out of politics so there's not as much corruption that's i think that's honestly a longer and harder fight but if you do this uh national direct ballot initiative law i really think that that could impact this country for the better and it's an idea unfortunately nobody's really talking about it yet it's not anything like bernie's i'm with bernie on so much of what he's talking about and i love the guy but he hasn't spoken about this yet tulsi hasn't spoken about this yet andrew

yang hasn't spoken about this yet and again these are brilliant people who have great ideas they discussed it ever publicly they never brought it up they've never brought it up i actually brought it up in conversation to somebody in bernie sanders campaign i brought it up in conversation with somebody in tulsi's campaign um and i do think that i'm not and i'm not saying that to go after them because i do think that they're really smart and right on a lot of stuff and i think that in due time they might see this position and really like it and maybe champion it but it kind of in the same way that andrew yang is now going around and his whole thing is universal basic income and he's kind of putting that into the mainstream of society. And now we're seriously talking about it. He's also doing it with drug decriminalization, which I respect him for. He goes beyond everybody up and and popularizing this idea because it's such a simple idea

It would be so easy to implement and joe think of the positive effects of this I mean, I remember there was a poll I think it's in the teens like something like 16 percent of americans still support the iraq war Which means like everybody's against it. Imagine if we got to directly vote on that we'd be out of iraq tomorrow But do they understand the implications of pulling out of iraq better than the shitty politicians who are corrupt and bought by raytheon and boeing and halliburton right that's what i would say there's got to be someone who could advise someone who has an objective perspective on foreign policy maybe someone who's in the military who's got boots on the ground who can tell you okay here's the problems with pulling out and here's the pros of pulling out here's the cons and get an objective analysis of the situation so at least people are

informed instead of just having them vote on it based on public perception have them vote on it based on something here's what i'm afraid of when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and what history teaches us is that, and this happened endlessly in Vietnam. Presidents came and went and they were like, you know, I don't know, I really don't think we should be doing this. And they would be talked into staying and increasing troop levels by the generals. Now, this is not taking a shot at the generals. This is just me saying that when that's your field of expertise, yeah,

that's what you're going to say. Oh, just let us stay there another five months. Let us stay there another year. Joe, we're at the point now where nobody even bothers to define what victory would mean in Afghanistan, what victory would mean in Iraq. Think about it. What's the original reason we were given? Oh, we've got to go into Afghanistan because we've got to get al-Qaeda because al-Qaeda attacked us. Okay, that's understandable.

Osama bin Laden's dead. He's been dead for so long. There's only 100 al-Qaeda members, according to our own intelligence agencies, still in Afghanistan. Why are we there? I think it has a lot more to do with the trillions of dollars of mineral wealth that's there again i think it has a lot more to do with the geopolitical power and the and the chessboard of us versus russia i mean that you know the soviet union was there um back in the 1980s and like this was we wanted to counter their influence in that region and again with iraq

oil had a lot to do with it as well the The military-industrial complex where, you know, war is a racket, as Smedley Butler said. You can make a lot of money going down this road. So... That Smedley Butler, war is a racket.

Scary. I encourage anyone to read that. That was from 1933? Is that what it was? It's old, and he was right. And he was right back then. Yeah, and look at Eisenhower. He had these ideas

of what war was for, and that really, he was just really making things safe for the bankers that's right and look at eisenhower eisenhower a republican president when leaving office warned everybody look out for the military industrial complex because people will want to do war because war is a business yes so you can actually become very wealthy if you're perpetually in a state of

war i mean look how much again the defense industry in this country raytheon boeing halliburton there are jobs tied to the defense industry in every state in this country that makes it so hard because even if you're nominally anti-war as a politician you can still say well hey listen man i agree but i don't want the jobs in my district to go away right and that is an issue because if you're a politician that's the last thing you ever want to do and have that against you when your opponent is saying, listen, this asshole pulled out and this is why you lost all these jobs and this is why the economy is in a shitter. I'm going to bring those jobs back. I'm going to reinvigorate the military. I'm going to do – And there we go again.

And there you go again. Anyway, so the argument in favor of a national direct ballot initiative law like a kind of a direct democracy great idea i thank you i love the idea and i really do think that even though i take your point that it's not like that you know the people are always right but i would say they're way more likely to be right than a bunch of corrupt asshole politicians right but then you got to wonder if the corrupt asshole politicians are going to make these propaganda campaigns to support whatever idea would suit them. Oh, we've seen it many times before.

Joe, that's a giant issue. I mean, we've seen that when it comes to – because most of the time with these direct ballot initiative laws, at the state level, the side that is, in my opinion, better wins. But sometimes there's propaganda campaigns where they run these totally misleading ads yeah about what's going to happen i know this happened in one of the states when it came to either recreational weed or or legal weed they ran these misleading ads where they kind of flipped it and made people think oh if i vote yes on this i'm legalizing weed but it was the other way around how the fuck they do that that's what i'm saying is they have all these tricks up their sleeves and ohio was the dirtiest one, right, Jamie? What was the deal with Ohio where they were trying to make it legal?

I was here. I don't remember the exact thing, but what I was hearing was that they had it tied up so that only like four businesses could do it forever or something like that. I don't know if it was forever, forever, but like for a long, long time. Imagine that like you could, it's legal, but you have to buy it from me. You can't even grow it yourself. Like what? Imagine if they did that with tomatoes. Okay, we're going to have tomatoes legal in Ohio, but you have to buy it from me. You can't even grow it yourself. Like, what? Imagine if they did that with tomatoes.

Okay, we're going to have tomatoes legal in Ohio, but you can only buy them from Bob. Like, what the fuck? It's a tomato. It grows on the ground. How can you stop people from... If it's legal, it's legal. You know, I mean, there's no laws against you growing anything that's legal. Right?

Right. Yeah. Well, there shouldn't be. There probably are. Are there? Like some weird rules and regulations on it. Right sneaky shit just designed for business right and that's the thing is like that is just rank corruption you and i both know that the reason that came about is because whoever was in charge of the business that was getting that contract yes knew

the person in government probably funneled the money for his campaign yes and that's the honestly joe that's the root of all the problems the root of all the problems is the money in politics it's the corporations paying the politicians it's the billionaires paying the politicians and if we can have this thing called clean elections which just means that every election is publicly financed then in a situation like that you would actually see elections run on competing ideas and philosophies and you wouldn't see elections run on competing special interests because right now you could say okay democrats who who gives money to democrats unions give money to democrats so that's an issue some environmentalist groups give money to democrats so i would argue those special interests are a little less scary but also i mean wall street

the military industrial complex also gives to democrats not just to republicans right so you have these competing special interests going at it and really you're just trying to determine which group of special interests is going to run the country for the next four years and it'd be so much better if we have like i would love to have debates with people who just actually flat out disagrees me if you had me and ron paul here and him and i argue about economics because he's a libertarian and i'm not i believe in social democracy it would be an awesome conversation we could actually disagree on the substance and really nail down where we disagree and why and let the people make their mind up. Politics would be beautiful if that was the case.

But what's interesting is it's always going to be dependent upon a single individual personality that people find appealing. I mean, that is tough. This is where we are as a country. Yeah. I mean, and this is, and when someone gets chopped down, boy, they get chopped down. Like Kamala Harris When Tulsi Gabbard took her out of the hamstrings

That's a wrap baby Tulsi we salute you for taking down Kamala I mean dude Everybody was saying she's the one She's gonna run it I even thought she would have a stronger run than she did And she fell apart Tulsi made her fall apart

It's fascinating She just shrunk into the shadows Like, oh, and your little dog, too. Just, you know? Did you see the last debate? Because that was like peak. Okay, she's done now. Oh, yeah. Because what was her main issue?

It was so hilarious to watch this. Her main issue that she decided, I'm going to take a stand on this in the debate. On Trump with Twitter. Was she was begging Elizabeth Warren, why don't you support banning Trump from Twitter? I mean, we're talking about two different sets of rules. The most powerful man in the world is violating the terms of service. Why did she think that that was something to hang her hat on? Because she's surrounded by absolute morons who are Democratic strategists in Washington, D.C., and they think, okay, you have to outflank Elizabeth Warren on her left on some issue, so use this issue and try to make it seem like you're standing up for the little guy

and you're standing up for rules being applied evenly. But it's such a dumb thing. Joe, I know, man, because even to people who are on the left, that looks like you're just begging for the mods. The real problem is she never did deny what Tulsi said, and she can't. Oh, about her record and how terrible her record is the record was awful the fact absolutely what she did with schools is the most disgusting truancy thing yes where she threatened single moms with jail if their kids didn't go to school

and she joked around about it at these meetings she joked around about it and in conferences you know about how she cleaned it up and she just had cops knocking on the door ha ha ha you know it was it was bad disturbing yeah what was even worse is there was somebody who was um found not guilty on something they were wrongfully imprisoned found not guilty on something when it came back up. And then Kamala Harris didn't let him out and kept him in on the technicality and said, oh, your paperwork wasn't filed in the proper time frame or whatever it was. She did it on purpose herself. She did it herself. Yes.

This is the story that broke. And why did she do that? I don't know. I have no idea. But this is one of the things that, you know, Tulsi was shining a spotlight on. One of the things that Tulsi said, which they use them for cheap labor for the state of california and she didn't deny any of that she because her record is abysmal on this stuff i mean there's no there's no defending it's amazing that she got to this prominent position without any of that being

exposed and tulsi exposed it just like click turn the lights on well look at the steve mnuchin thing this is one that we've known for a while so steve mnuchin was part of goldman sachs he was also the head of one west bank here in california and what happened was they were during the subprime mortgage crisis in the great recession they were illegally foreclosing on people early and kicking them out of their homes in violation of the law and so kamala harris uh you know it was recommended by her own office you got to prosecute this guy look at what he's doing she didn't do it why because he's a big democratic donor and he was giving money to democrats at the time now by the way just in case anybody thinks oh this is just a partisan issue and only the democrats are bad steve mnuchin is in the trump administration yeah he picked him he's hilarious

so it's a big club and you ain't in it is the point to steal from george carlin remember when her the his wife was taking all these fucking Instagram photos with all the shit she had on private chats and stuff? They look like Bond villains, bro. She had gloves on. They're Bond villains. She's got gloves on. Holding money with the gloves. Who the fuck wears those gloves that go down to your elbows?

Bond villains. Yeah. Thank you. Come on, man. She's holding up money. She probably feels dirty holding up ones. Ew. But the fact that she's wearing those goddamn gloves, like, oh my God.

And the fact that she looks like she should be fucking a football player or something. She doesn't look like she should be fucking that guy. He's got a gazillion dollars, so that's why. It's kind of hilarious, right? When you look at the disparity in beauty. Well, Joe, these are the assholes who really run the economy. Goldman Sachs really runs the economy. Goldman Sachs, it was proven that they committed fraud at a massive level.

What they would do is- I'm going to order us a coffee if you'd like one. Sure, I'll take one. There's something wrong with our coffee machine. Hold on a second. Go ahead. Explain. So anyway, Steve Mnuchin.

Steve Mnuchin and Goldman Sachs, it was found that in the lead up to the subprime mortgage crisis and the Great Recession, here's what they would do, Joe. They would sell to unsuspecting clients these packages, these packages of subprime mortgages, but they were rated AAA. And they would sell them these packages saying, hey, man, listen, this is a great long-term investment. It's safe. You're going to make a lot of money. At the same time Goldman Sachs was doing that, they would turn around and bet on those packages that they just sold as if they were awesome. They would bet on those packages to fail. So that's fraud.

They were making money in two different ways. I'm going to sell you the package and make money, okay? And then on the other hand, I'm going to bet on this same package I just sold you to fail. That's like a car salesman saying, oh, I'm going to sell you this car and this car works wonderfully. Everything's good. It's an amazing car. Amazing car. Tremendous car.

The most unbelievable car. The greatest car the world's ever known. It's the perfect car, really. You got the fingers down. Salesman doing that, Joe. And then the salesman also betting his buddy that that car is going to break down before it gets out of the lot. So these are criminals, Joe. And the thing is, it's Democrats and Republicans who are propping them up.

The Wall Street bailout cost $14 trillion. Why is it we could spend money on that, but we can't have an infrastructure deal that gives our country an a plus infrastructure i want us to have the number one infrastructure in the world you had elon musk on not too long ago he's working on this thing called the hyperloop yeah the hyperloop is supposed to be the future of travel where you kind of get in a pod and it's vacuum powered you can go from new york to la in like three hours or whatever it is on the ground i want why don't we have that everywhere in this country why don't we have bridges that are fixed why don't we have awesome roads Why can't we go to Airports and feel

National pride And say this airport's Absolutely beautiful Some are beautiful Detroit actually has An amazing airport Did you know that I had no idea no

Dude it's like an airport From the future Detroit has these Fucking interior trams Like you're inside And a train is above you Flying by You're like whoa

Whoa that is kind of crazy Santino and I Like this shit's From the future That is kind of crazy. Santino and I are like, this shit's from the future. That is kind of crazy. I had no idea about that, no. Yeah. But I came from LaGuardia and New York is not great. Oh, that's the worst.

I came from JFK though, thank God. LaGuardia is number one worst and number two is LAX. LAX is number two shittiest airport in the country. Yeah, LAX is pretty bad, man. Well, it's even worse now that they told the Uber guys that everyone has to meet you at, like, a lot. So people are like, well, fuck Uber. So now everybody's parking in the lots. Now, good luck trying to find a parking spot in the lots.

Oh, my God. Yeah, it's, dude, it's a disaster. I was flying at a Terminal 2 the other day. I had to park in Terminal 6. Yeah, I almost missed my flight. I had to walk a half an hour. I was running. I had to run to the fucking yeah it's so bad there's you all of them are blocked up they have like uh no more parking spot

signs on all these different different lots this is so outdated man airports in general like it's time to evolve to the next thing yeah you know like because we're all sick of that it's a whole day to travel somewhere and even if it's just a two or three hour flight yeah but if you go to burbank it's still smooth as glass i've never been to that uh airport it's one of the higher end it's like oh it's not higher and it's fucking southwest no one goes well we were saying they should have a fly at your own risk airlines and actually i'm stealing a joke from bill mark as he came up that a while ago because when we were coming through tsa i left nashville to come here because I was at Politicon there. And we had to wait on this line for TSA

and it was just never ending. And it's like if they just opened up a line and said, hey man, listen, plane might get blown up, but go right ahead. I would have taken that option at the time. Do you have TSA pre and clear? No, I don't.

Because I don't fly too much. I fly to come see you and that's it. Oh, that's it? Well, you got to get clear. Clear is the bomb diggity you don't have to have ID Well there was a line for the pre-check too But clear is not Oh okay that's different

Clear you pay for it and you just put your fingers on the little screen It pulls up a picture Oh here's Kyle and then you go Gone through When will Joe Rogan get a private jet is my question Like flat out own one That seems like There's a problem with

insulation right as as a celebrity period if you're a famous person it's you already have a problem being insulated from regular folks you don't have the same sort of financial problems regular people have and then you insulate yourself further when people are always trying to get pictures with you and talk to you and they don't let you just be yourself you can't just hang so you cross over this weird little area as soon as you cross over fully now i have a staff drive me around and i have a private jet and who the fuck are you yeah you're not you're no longer a man of the people however if anybody could pull it off i think you could if you had a private jet. Everybody would be like, oh, cool, Joe has a private jet.

But if some other famous schmuck did it, people would be like, fuck that guy. I do think you could pull it off. And also, I mean, let's be honest, private jets are so fucking cool if you had a private jet. That'd be so cool. What about the environment, man? Well, you know, I think— You can't say anything about the environment, man, if you have a private jet. I think that people always try to do this when it comes to the environment.

Like, oh, well, what have you done? Are you using a plastic straw? Gotcha. That's like a Kamala thing, you know? But at the same time, there's some insane fact. I think it's 76% of global emissions are emitted by 100 companies. So really, it's not people that are the problems. It's the companies

and they need to be regulated and we can fix that moving forward that's a giant giant percentage of the problem and the little individual steps that people do to minimize their impact on the on the carbon emissions and the carbon footprint it's very small in comparison to corporations yeah that's right it's very small it's like pissing in the ocean you're not going to accomplish anything yeah but it's it's all there's all these gotcha points that people want to point to when it comes to things like plastic straws and this and that you know what the real issue it's not plastic straws the real issue is how we handle waste that's the real issue how the fuck are the straws getting in the ocean in the first place that is kind of crazy and that's

the problem is that garbage patch thing i haven't read about this in years but there's like a freaking like giant boy on slot who's been on the podcast before who's that garbage patch thing? I haven't read about this in years, but there's like a freaking giant. Boyan Slot, who's been on the podcast before, who's a very young guy. I think he's only 21 years old, right? Is he about 20 or 21? He's very young. And he came up with a machine that is collecting garbage from this garbage patch. The garbage patch is larger than the state of Texas now.

It's enormous. It's in the middle of the fucking ocean. larger than the state of texas now it's enormous it's in the middle of the fucking ocean and it's a soup of particles and particulates and all these little half dissolved pieces of plastic that are just swashing and you see a lot of it on the surface but much of it is actually below the surface and you know fish are eating it and they're filling their bellies and birds eat it and it's just absolutely disgusting all right we got some coffees here This is turmeric coffee It's got turmeric Thanks brother

Does it work now? Appreciate it man Beautiful thank you I don't Let's see if I like Tumeric This is Laird Hamilton Tumeric

Yeah it's actually got an R in it Most people don't know Cause I would have said turmeric Me too Me too Until they installed This fucking machine here Pretty good, right?

That is very good. Yeah. That is very good. A little hot, but very good. Yeah. So what's going on here, Jamie? What is this? Is this an illustration of the garbage patch?

Yeah. I don't know if this is their new machine, but the Interceptor, I believe, is what I've seen in a couple tweets here. They have one currently on the way to the Dominican Republic. here they have one currently on the way to the dominican republic well if you go to his um boyan's instagram he's got photographs and videos of the thing in action and it's like this giant sort of net collection device is this a different one is this a different machine this is a new one this is from his twitter oh it is from his twitter yeah Oh, it is from his Twitter? Yeah, yeah. Okay. His Instagram, though, has actual photographs instead of animation. Well, I mean, this has it, too. Oh, okay.

Yeah, so that's how it works. It's got, like, this thing, and it just scoops them all up. And the idea is that they're going to be able to recycle all of this plastic, which is excellent. Yeah, I think we're at the point now that it's almost like we have no option but to rely on um technology like we have to develop technology to try to course correct here because my buddy um was saying that especially when it comes to climate change it's like we're so far beyond the point where any casual person thinks we are that something has to be done that's beyond just like well cut off all emissions and that's it you know what i mean right right and that's a scary thought because then we're we

really are and you've made this point before on the podcast we're relying on like the smartest people to save us at the last minute yeah yeah i mean that is terrifying that's terrifying it is terrifying but they're the smartest people have figured out how to make all this shit that we're throwing in the ocean in the first place that's true and they also i mean the guy who created the nuclear weapon remember yes yeah he you said that and i learned this from you he said i am become death or something like yes yeah when when he saw the very first uh when oppenheimer saw the very first explosion test explosion said i am become death destroyer of worlds it's a quote from the bhagavat gita i mean that is a fucking terrifying thing to say when you're watching the the very first atomic bomb we have the ability to destroy the

world oh many times over now yeah which is i don't think we're ready for that no it's where we were talking about earlier today that um kim jong-un threatened us i didn't see anything yeah it was on cnn i didn't see that either but allow me to say this joe and i might get some shit for this but i don't care this is the one very narrow area where i'm i'd give trump credit because there's this part of trump where it's just anti-obamaism in its most raw form whatever obama did i want to do the opposite right and so obama apparently well trump said he said it to him so i don't know if he actually did but obama really wasn't able to get much movement with north korea and so trump felt like well if i can get some sort of peace deal it'd be tremendous and it'd be amazing and

i would one-up obama and so trump has actually directly against um john bolton and mike pompeo and gina haspel and all of his foreign policy advisors who are terrible neocons who never met a war they didn't like trump has actually gone against them a little bit and pushed more in a direction of trying to get peace. And by the way, the South Koreans are actually leading the way on that, and they deserve a tremendous amount of credit, and they like the idea that we're not escalating with them. So this is a very rare area, a narrow area, where I want to give him credit. But the thing that drives me crazy, Joe, is I feel like the media and the Democrats, too, and definitely the Republicans, establishment Republicans, they're trying to push him in a more hawkish direction, which makes no sense because it's like here we all admit, oh, my God, this guy's kind of thin skinned and he's kind of crazy and he kind of, you know, flies

off the handle and we don't really trust him with a nuclear weapon. But you want him to be more hawkish and more aggressive with Kim Jong-un and more standoffish? Like, they got mad when he announced, we're going to stop our military exercises, which are, you know, very antagonistic and done right by North Korea and is done to let them know, like, we'll fuck you up. Like, that's the whole point of it is to let them know. And Trump's like, well, I don't think they're a good thing. I think they're, you know, they work against peace. So we probably should stop that. And then he got a bunch of shit because the media was like, well, what did you extract from them by stopping those drills?

What did you get from them as a result of it? And it's like, you don't need to get anything from them. North Korea, and this is going to blow some people's minds, they are not in any way, shape, or form an offensive threat against the united states there is a zero percent chance that they would unprovoked offensively launch an attack against la or new york or nebraska or anywhere in fact we know and it's admitted as much um when you go to the pentagon they know he's actually strategically just acting in a defensive way and he wants nuclear weapons as a deterrent to u.s aggression because this is exactly what happened with Libya where we told Gaddafi after he saw what we did to Saddam Hussein. And then we told Gaddafi, like, give up your nukes. And he was like, take them. You have them.

And then what happened? We still toppled him anyway. Well, it was the next regime, right? No, it was Gaddafi. Yeah, but I mean, it was. Oh, you're saying it was Obama and it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah the Bush administration yeah yeah Obama but still the point is the rebels took over right wasn't it all the beautiful rebels the point is you can't trust the word of the U.S. because we'll just flip it so did it was did the rebels do it with U.S. aid yeah yeah and by the way just like in

Syria like we have now they're jihadists right that was the famous uh clinton speech we came we saw he died she's had an interview laughing about it yeah that was fucking spooky that's that's one of the dark secrets of u.s foreign policy is that we have repeatedly armed jihadists to further our own political goals and that's that happened with reagan back back because we wanted to arm the mujahideen because um they were fighting against they were fighting in uh afghanistan against the soviet union so we wanted to arm jihadists then and of course that became the taliban and al-qaeda and so that's why i don't know if you ever saw this but there are newspapers from the uk the independent the newspaper the independent calling osama bin lad Laden a freedom fighter at the time. When was this?

This was in the 1980s when they had, or maybe early 1990s, when they had pushed back the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan, there were headlines calling him a freedom fighter. When he was the head of the Mujahideen. When he was the head of the Mujahideen. Wasn't that where they restructured the idea of jihad, that a jihad was initially supposed to be a battle against your own personal vices this was how it was interpreted yeah i think it's interpreted in different ways throughout the muslim world um that but anti-soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace okay that's what i meant not freedom fighter puts army on the road to peace peace what did you think about

trump's reaction to baghdad getting caught classic trump but the way he did it that he was crying and whimpering like why would he say that well he was also trying to like do a dick measuring contest with obama did you see the speech afterwards he was like listen but they i heard they had problems when it came to osama bin laden but we handled this we handled it so beautifully so amazingly amazingly. And the funniest part is, apparently when it actually happened, he was on the golf course. And so after the fact, they decided, oh, we got to have one of those

Situation Room photos like Obama did when Osama bin Laden was killed. And so they staged the photo. They staged as fuck. They put all the wires there and some of them are not plugged in. That photo was taken an hour and a half after it happened apparently like come on how do they know that for sure you can pull the metadata out of the

photo and find out what was taken i mean the cameraman he could have not set the camera right but i didn't even know that i should have done that oh my god pull the picture up let me see the picture it's so funny the picture is so well lit that's what's what's fucked up about it's like they hired fucking annie lebowitz to come in and light the room it's so funny yeah like the way it's it's lit isn't one picture he's looking at the camera i think too is he he's a character man there it is go full screen on that please they can zoom in on the wire you see one of those not plugged in yeah a lot of them aren't plugged in but i mean also isn't it too, that they're still using wires?

Yeah, I mean, I guess because they have to for security. Better connection, too. Yeah? If you're watching video. Mm-hmm. Right. So is that HDMI? What are they connected to?

Cat5. Cat5, yeah. Right. I mean, those could be different, but that's what it should be. Yeah, look how well that's lit. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't even look like they're all really there. It looks fake. It does look kind of weird, that's what it should be like look how well that's lit yeah i mean it doesn't even look like they're all really there it looks fake it does look kind of weird that's for sure but it's funny that like at a moment like that his thought process was like i have to try to make this as

you know as amazing as it is but he feels like he has to go above and beyond to do so that it can't just be on its own like okay you got the head of isis congrats look at mike pence he's thinking about writing a book right there no actually okay i i i think that mike pence is actually one of the most loyal trump people who's least likely to abandon him yeah but i mean when trump is out of office and has a heart attack from all the meth i think mike pence is going to be the guy that writes the book you think think so? I don't know, man. There's something about this guy. So Mike Pence, a lot of people don't know this

about Mike Pence, but he credits his career to Rush Limbaugh because he became a talk radio host and he was so inspired by Rush Limbaugh. Mike Pence was a radio host?

Yes. Well, look at the difference between him and Obama. That's so funny. He's clearly watching something go down. Yeah, that's pretty funny. But yeah, down yeah that's pretty funny but um yeah he's uh i think he's going to be super loyal to trump even after the other thing that's interesting

about the trump era is even though he knows how to do relentless offense and not stop attacking democrats and not stop making his case what you're finding now is that even the other republicans are struggling to keep up like they can't as much as Trump wants to defend himself, other Republicans are now, like, shying away from doing it. Right. You know? Well, they feel the walls are closing in. They do, but what's interesting is, like,

I think there's basically a 0% chance he'll get impeached in the sense that he actually gets out of office. You think he'll get impeached, but you don't think he'll be removed from office. I think, I actually don't even know if he'll get impeached. So I don't even know if it could get through the house, but there is a chance it gets through the house. I'll put that at 50-50. So he can get impeached through the house, but he needs, you need 20 Republican votes in the Senate to get him out of office. And that's not happening. Right. That's just not happening. It's not possible. Not for this. What's that? Not for this. No, not no not i would argue probably not for 99.9 of things maybe there's some unforeseen scenario that i can't think of

at the moment that for some reason would make them flip on him but he can almost do anything and get away with it what's fascinating is how democrats are so they're so invested in the idea that of him being removed that they're saying it as if it was a fact well yeah because there's there's we have it's like narrative wars you have the one side they have their narrative about how he's guilty on all these things and it's it's not even an open question anymore he should be impeached he should have been impeached a year ago and then there's the other side of it which is just like at least coming from trump himself i did nothing wrong nothing wrong at all ever everything is wonderful and this is all fake news and we constantly live in a state of like a tug of war between the two

realities and yeah i mean what's amazing to me is watching the media agree with the establishment democrat narrative when it's not like it's not going to come to fruition if you're spending all your time talking about how he's going to get out of office he's going to be impeached that's just a pipe dream do you remember that what the fuck's the guy's name the gq guy who had the basement show the resistance keith olbermann he is the most insufferable dude on the planet man so self-righteous so smug see that's the problem in the trump era is that trump's trump's a dingbat and everybody knows it but he's not pretending to be holier than thou whereas a guy like keith olbermann is pretending to be holier than thou. Whereas a guy like Keith Olbermann is pretending to be holier than thou.

And he puts on this smug act, and he starts yelling at everybody, and it's like, you know that you don't even want to be yelling right now. Reel it in a little bit, man. Pump your brakes, dog. Pump your brakes. You know you don't want to be doing that. But his last broadcast, he was saying that he— My job is done. His work is done, and that it's days before Trump gets removed from office.

And that was at least two years ago. Right? And that's the other thing is that there's so much. Wasn't it? When was his last show? Keith Olbermann's last show. It was a while ago. It was in a basement with like a cardboard backdrop.

It's just like a fucking Ikea table. And he had some notes. ikea table and he had some notes and that's why joe i think that my show is growing is because you know it's so easy to be anti-trump but you have to be anti-trump with intelligent reasons and so my arguments against him are always policy-based like there it is there you go olbermann retires 2017 it's almost exactly two years. They don't understand how much of a self-owned this is and how this actually pushes people to the right. But whenever you say something's going to happen that has not happened, I mean, god damn. With something as important as removing the president from office, boy, you got to be right about that. There will be no day of reckoning on that, and I promise you.

And I know that because, remember the whole Russiagate thing? The first time I was on the podcast, did a rant about the russia gate thing where i predicted they're not going to get them on collusion it's not going to happen that's not going to happen right i was right yes jimmy door was right some others were right i swear to god the day after we were proven right there was no in my opinion you are the most reasonable of all political reporters you make the most sense to me i just i've never watched one of your shows well i'm like this guy's out of his fucking mind i really appreciate you saying that it's true you're you're you're a normal person like and you call things the way you see

them and you're informed and that is so rare man and even the fact that you're able to give props to trump's ridiculous shit like and and say that it's funny we We all know it's funny. Yeah. But sometimes you're not supposed to say it's funny. But the people with the sticks up their asses, they're only hurting themselves when they don't admit that. Right. When no matter what it is, they're like, I'm so offended. He had some recently where we were laughing really hard.

It wasn't the Jussie Smollett thing. It was something after that. It was something after that. By the way, I watched Alien Covenant the other day I didn't know that Jussie Smollett He was in that The Chappelle bit on that is so funny Oh my god it was amazing

It was amazing That dude has to live with that forever When you get taken down by Dave motherfucking Chappelle This is one of the top three comedians Of all time dedicated 10 minutes to you. And they're trying to act like there's this movement now to try to act like, oh, he's only accepted now by conservatives. But that's just not true. Oh, with Chappelle?

With Dave Chappelle. Isn't that hilarious? Because they're trying to make that a thing, but it's just not. It's just not true. It's nonsense. Well, this is the problem with woke culture. It's reductionist and it's delusional. It's not real. And they're trying to push this narrative as and they believe that this is how the world thinks that's how you get something like that rotten tomatoes review of dave chappelle's where it got zero percent by five woke critics then they release it to the general public gets 99 there you go and it's also this spring back effect where

people know you're fucking with them and then they go oh okay well you guys are assholes so the people that are saying that dave chapelle special is bad they become the enemy and then so dave becomes the hero and then even if you didn't like it you're gonna say you loved it yeah you know and and and the and the other thing is they act like he's always been politically incorrect yes look at it look at chapelle show which was you, I was in high school, we all watched the Chappelle's show and I thought it was like the most brilliant thing ever. And the idea that he ever

crosses some sort of a line, that's Dave Chappelle. The whole point is to cross the line. That's the whole point of it. He's a perpetual line stepper since day one. That's why he's so funny. What'd you say, Jamie?

The Greenland thing? Where you wanted to buy Greenland? Oh, that was it. Sorry about that, Reece. That is hilarious. Where he put the Trump hotel in the middle of Greenland. I promise I'm not going to buy Greenland? Oh, that was it. Let's talk about that reason. That is hilarious. Where he put the Trump hotel in the middle of Greenland and promised I'm not going to do this.

Come on, man. I know. First of all, the buying the Greenland thing is a great move if global warming is real. If that becomes a part of the United States,

then you can go up there. You don't have to worry about it. Yeah, well, they say, I think that they want rights, not to Greenland, but also there's a movement in the Arctic. Right there. I promise not to do this to Greenland, but also there's a movement in the Arctic. Right there.

I promise not to do this to Greenland. Come on. That shit is hilarious. That is pretty funny. Well, you got to click on it, though, Jamie, so you can get- I couldn't. I just found the picture. Joe, they want to do like oil drilling now in the Arctic and shit.

Because he doesn't say Trump in that photo. You know how Twitter is. They only give you like three quarters of the picture. Yeah, they want to do oil drilling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, I mean, I just- the whole global warming is terrifying to me. The whole climate change thing is terrifying to me.

But what's more terrifying, I think, than anything, that is a hilarious picture. That is funny. What's more terrifying than anything is that some people are resisting it and it's become politicized. some people are resisting it and it's become politicized and some people are just buying whole hog into anything that gets said that supports climate change or supports the concept of climate change and that we've gotten into this thing where it's an ideologically based sort of subject okay can i try to frame it in a way that i hope i can convince some conservatives watching this yes because i would i would love to have the chance to do that. So what I would say to them is, first of all, there's a lot of issues that you care about that this will impact.

So there was a report that came out about a year ago which found that basically large swaths of the Middle East will be uninhabitable at a certain point because it would just be too hot for human beings to live there. uninhabitable at a certain point because it would just be too hot for human beings to live there well we were talking about that yesterday they have saudi arabian summer where a lot of people from saudi arabia come over to la during the summer because our summer ain't shit compared to theirs so and and that's the thing is you think there's a refugee crisis when it comes to what's happening in in south america you think there's a refugee crisis in europe when it came to what happened in syria and iraq you ain't seen nothing yet right so if you're somebody who fancies yourself against immigration or a hardliner on immigration or against helping refugees or whatever it might be just think about what happens when you multiply

what's happening now by a thousand okay because that's what's going to happen at some point it's just a matter of when and the other point i would make to them is this. People like to, you know, make fun of the Green New Deal and try to pick it apart. If we talk about the Green New Deal and only define it as basically a new New Deal, so the New Deal, FDR, you know, put that into place. This was to try to fight back against the Great Depression, try to get people employed, try to fix the country, right? And FDR kept getting reelected because FDR was beloved by the entire country because he was fighting for regular working people. That was his thing. And that's when the Republicans were like, geez, we really should have term limits because we can't beat this guy. What if when we talk about the Green New Deal,

we're highlighting the fact that yes, we're going to move towards renewable and green technology. Yes, that's going to be a large part of what we're doing but the whole point guys is millions and millions of jobs created for regular people the whole point is to improve this country to fix this country to try to make it so that our infrastructure is better than the rest of the world what if instead of looking at this as like oh my god um this is going to be such a drain on the economy and what's going to happen to the deficit how about you look at this like an economic opportunity because what's going to happen to the deficit. How about you look at this like an economic opportunity? Because what's going to happen in the future, Joe? There's inevitable patents that are waiting to be had for all these green and renewable technologies.

We could lead the world on that front or we could lag behind Russia. We could lag behind China. We could lag behind everybody else and be stuck in what would effectively be a Stone Age. So how would they encourage this industry to flourish well it'd be subsidies like how do you what do you do to get these industries to innovate and to pump a shitload of money into to green technology it has to do with government contracts it has to do with i mean first and foremost before we even do the right thing you have to stop doing the wrong thing which is stop giving four billion dollars a year every year as a subsidy

to ExxonMobil. And they hilariously say, oh, they need this money because it's for research and development. No, it's not. They don't need it for research and development. They're one of the most profitable corporations on the planet. They could do their own research and development. Right. So stop subsidizing fossil fuels.

And then, yes, what we need to do is invest in a variety of different things that show a little bit of promise. Some things won't work. Okay. Some things will work. And then we move forward from there. And so that's where you could get the hyper loop all around this country what if all this stuff was built and brought about because we did a massive investment in a green new deal then everybody would talk about how it's a wonderful

thing and how we're finally leading the world and in our rightful place i find it hilarious that you know guys like trump and guys like joe biden by the way love to say like there's nothing this country can't do. And then in the next sentence, they go on to tell you a thousand things that they think we can't do and that we shouldn't do and we shouldn't even try. Well, what technologies have you heard, if any, that are being even proposed to mitigate global warming or climate change? Is there anything? There's the classic ones that I think are more effective than people give it credit for like solar is one that's it's effective that people i don't think it gets its due um but then there's other things like

thorium now let me just say i'm not i'm not talking about a thorium car because there was a car that was proposed and it was apparently was total bullshit they couldn't make a thorium car work but what is thorium thorium is basically the way it's been described to me is nuclear energy without the downside of like you could it could melt down and destroy everything that's the way it's been described to me so a nuclear powered car no not a car we're talking about power for the energy why not why not a nuclear power well the thorium story that everybody got pissed over was because they were trying to make it seem like it was right around the corner they had the plans and it just wasn't and those people were full of shit but that doesn't mean

thorium is bad and totally off the table. It just means that that specific car they were talking about was nonsense. But if you have thorium reactors, it's basically like meltdown-proof nuclear facility. That's how it's been described. Now, I'm an idiot. I have no idea how far off we are from actually developing that.

But I do know that we need to invest in this and other things that show potential. I mean, that's the only way to move forward. The nuclear thing is very interesting, right? Because a lot of the technology that's a problem today like what happened in fukushima is old nuclear technology well old technology that you can't really shut down but they've mitigated a lot of those issues apparently when you talk to people that are pro-nuclear when they talk about the future of nuclear power they're like look we have systems that have all this redundancy in place you can shut them down they're they're much safer than the things that they constructed essentially in

the 70s and 60s i'm skeptical on that point yeah and i'm skeptical because at every step of the way they they told us that so uh with fukushima before it happened they said oh don't worry this is this it would never happen here and then what happened was course, you had the earthquake and then you had the tsunami and they were like, oh, we, um, we didn't build the seawall high enough. Yeah. That's like an engineering 101 mistake. And now you're going to tell me you have everything figured out on that front. So I'm a little skeptical when it comes to nuclear for obvious reasons, Chernobyl, was

it Three Mile Island, Five Mile Island, whatever it's called. And then Fukushima. But I do think that that doesn't mean I would ban all nuclear today, but it does mean I think there are better ways moving forward that are cleaner, that are safer. Right, and solar is a big one, particularly in places like Los Angeles. But with solar, you also need batteries. And the battery technology apparently is not as good as would need to be in place in order to power an entire city like L.A., even though we have sun almost every day of the year,

you know, like bright sun, very few clouds almost every day of the year. So nice. It's very nice. Right. I know. Come over here.

You're like, Ooh, I know. I'm like, because now in New York, it's, you know, you're finally getting old,

cold, miserable. I'm going there on Thursday. I'm excited, dude. When you'll notice this too, when you've been there before, but it's,

uh, you don't even realize it's impacting your mood until you come here in October, November, December, January. I noticed when I lived here, when I first lived here, when I first moved here from New York. It was amazing. Yeah. Me and my friend Gary were like, look at this. This is crazy. Look outside.

It's fucking so sunny. It's fucking January, man. So I don't think I have seasonal depression, but I definitely have a worse mood in the winter and in the late fall. Oh, yeah. Yeah think i have seasonal depression but i definitely have a worse mood in the winter yes and in the late fall oh yeah yeah it's that is seasonal depression that's less depressed than you could be right it's definitely not as up as you would be if it was nice out the sun just gives you energy you want to do stuff you want to be productive you also get spoiled it's like the equivalent of being a weather-based trust fund baby. That's a great point.

Yeah. That's a great point. It's like you always have money, so you don't worry about money. Well, if you grew up poor and you felt the sting of poverty and you didn't know where your next meal was coming from and you had to work really hard, then when you make some money, you feel great. But if you always had money, you're spoiled.

You don't realize it. So somebody who always lived in L.A. and never traveled, they're just like, this is just what it is. They don't appreciate it. They don't appreciate it. You don't realize it. So somebody who always lived in LA and never traveled, they're just like, this is just what it is. They don't appreciate it. They don't appreciate it. They don't appreciate it and they're soft. They don't understand what weather is.

They don't understand. They don't have a real relationship with nature. And I think when a snowstorm comes, you have a relationship with nature. And also there's more of a community bond with the people around you because you're all in it together. I mean, you really have to rely on people. That's very true. If your car gets stuck on the side of the road you got to help each other like it's different

it's a different feel even in a place like new york city there's a bond that happens when everyone's collectively dealing with some shit particularly some nature shit yeah i've heard you say that you think uh you know my northeastern people are harder they're harder people yeah yeah but it's also they're they're the children of more direct and recent immigrants and the atmosphere that those immigrants have created, right? Like my parents were second generation, right? My grandparents were first generation. They came over from Italy and Ireland.

That's me too. My grandma, my mom's side, Italian. So all those people, they came over, they were fucking savages basically. They hopped on a boat. They barely, they didn't even have a video to look at, fucking people no they can't youtube it or google it they just took a crazy chance and hopping in a boat and coming over here from europe right they land on the shores and they live in these immigrant communities you know they're all walking down the street to buy bread from this guy and sauce from that guy and they're they're all they're all eating italian food

because they're all italian they're living in these italian neighborhoods and you know and everybody's like fucking struggling, hardcore. And they have this hard-ass attitude of the kind of people that would be willing to take a boat ride across the country. One of the things you realize when you go to Italy versus Italians in America, Italians in Italy are more relaxed. Well, it's all in Europe. They are way more chill.

From what I've heard, because I've actually because i've actually i've been to canada and i've been to u.s territory puerto rico i've never been to europe yet okay and i've heard it's like they're it's a totally different culture in the middle of the day they'll just drop everything they're doing and everybody goes and eats and takes a nap and relaxes a little bit dude italy is so relaxing the food is sensational and it doesn't the weather never sucks i like the idea of that but if you actually put me in that environment, I'm so used to going, going, going, going, going all the time that I might actually be like, this is weird and crazy.

Yeah, you hate it. You'd go crazy. Which is weird because I love the idea. Like, I think, for example, the U.S. is, like, the only developed country in the world that doesn't have paid vacation time by law. Like, in other countries, you might get, like, a month off in August or whatever, and you do whatever you want, and you're paid. Here, we don't have that

I definitely support an idea like that But I do wonder how I'd react to that like big chunk of the middle of the day missing You don't work during that middle of the day I do wonder how I'd react to I think a four day work week is probably a good idea though I like that idea It is a great idea Three days off, four days on is the right move

Bernie if you're listening I hope Bernie's listening You think he's listening? He had a heart attack recently. He's taking a nap right now himself. Okay, but we have to say though, and this is incredible, right before I came in here, I looked and on there's a new poll that came out in New Hampshire, a CNN

poll nonetheless. He's now leading in New Hampshire, Joe. Is he? But that's because he's from Vermont. No, no, no, but he was down before and he's leading now. Furthermore, an Emerson poll came out. He went up five points post heart attack. No, no, no. But he was down before. Oh, yeah? And he's leading now. And furthermore, an Emerson poll came out. He went up five points post-heart attack. Five points he went up. Post-heart attack?

Post-heart attack. They feel bad for him. No. Who are they polling? People in hospitals? No, I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you. You know how you always say about adversity?

Like, oh, if you overcome adversity. Yes. He's like the prime example of that. Because I know people in his campaign, and they were telling me that literally the day of, by the end of the day, he was okay i'm feeling much better let's go that sounds like wishful thinking i mean that's what they were telling me was how i love you you're a great guy that sounds like wishful thinking and i love bernie and i had him in here and i really enjoyed talking to him and thanks to you because you set that up but uh when you have a fucking heart

attack your body's telling you something your body's telling you something. Your body's telling you, hey, man, you need to stop redlining this engine. They're making him roll back some events a little bit, and he's reeled it in a solid 15%. They need to get him on steroids. Imagine him getting jacked. Get him on the juice. Get him on the shit Trump's on. Steroids and some form of amphetamine. He's already doing a thousand rallies a day

It'd be hilarious He should have vitamin drips all day long They should give him a vitamin drip in the morning A vitamin drip in the afternoon Just change his fucking diet I don't know what he's eating But it doesn't look like he's eating the right stuff I think now he's on a very regimented thing

Yeah, get a nutritionist Not for nothing Blood work Did you see the debate right after the heart attack? Yes Because he looks so much better. He did. It's crazy.

It's like he knocked something loose. That's right. I didn't know I was being held back, Joe. I had a bum artery. Yeah. He really did have a bum artery, right? He got a stent put in it. But the thing that's so amazing is that he's, and Killer Mike, who you also had on the podcast,

who I absolutely love, he said it best. He said, this is the only candidate in my lifetime who's taking Dr. Martin Luther King king jr's philosophy and trying to run it across the finish line yeah mike loves him and i love mike so i mean i think the whole thing about him that that worries people is just his health and his age and you know and then there's people that want to label him as a wacky socialist but when he explains his positions outside of that whole debate environment where you only have 30 seconds to scream right now it's just and there's a difference joe between socialism and social democracy yes and social democracy is scandinavia that's all it is yeah so it's saying hey we're not totally scrapping capitalism we're not going to have everything government run all we're saying is let's catch up to the rest of the developed world when it comes to um single-payer health

care so everybody gets health care everybody gets college we're going to abolish student loan debt we're going to have fair wages for everybody so nobody's working full-time and living in poverty and when you explain this like you just said when you explain this to everybody they're like i can't believe i thought i ever disliked this guy well all those things are as fucking reasonable as you can get and if you're going to have a community which is essentially essentially what a country is, right? We're a community. We've got to take care of each other. What's the best way to take care of each other? Well, let's support each other

so that if something comes up, some sort of a catastrophic health crisis, you're covered. We cover you. We love you. We are a community. If you have a heart attack, if you've got a this, you got a that,

you need a leg fixed, whatever the fuck it is, you're covered for that. Okay. Well, maybe we shouldn't cripple you with debt when you're 17 years old and you don't understand what the fuck you're doing and we get you involved in this ridiculous system where you can never get out of it even if you go bankrupt you still owe that money forever we're at a point right now in this country where people who have social security they're on social security they're

getting money from their social security taken out because they owe student loans if that's not the most desperate and gross fucking feeling in the world disgusting yeah it's crazy and we we have some weird creepy coalition i mean there's some creepy like agreement that they have with these financial institutions and these educational institutions where they've they're essentially financially imprisoning young kids at an early age and people say whoa you shouldn't make that decision shouldn't shouldn't make that decision and put yourself in debt like that okay that's great but this is that's a very unscientific perspective because you're talking about someone whose brain isn't even fully formed right yeah front the lobe you're not even a fucking real human until you're 25 years old so let me i want

to address because i can some people are going to hear what i just said about you know medicare for all single-payer health care and they're going to say yeah but how are we going to pay for it because that's the common one that people bring up now let me address that because that's a really important question and usually when you actually substantively address it, people go, oh, okay, that makes a lot more sense. How are they going to pay it? So very simply put, the way the system works right now, it costs more than if we had Medicare for all. Why is that?

Because we have an unnecessary for-profit middleman that essentially acts like a mafia. So what we're saying is, I'm going to remove that mafia from around your neck and you're going to, it's basically... What is that mafia from around your neck and you're gonna it's basically what is that mafia you're referring to that mafia is the for-profit health insurance company so they have to they have to take their cut as the middleman between you and your doctor okay if we just remove that have the government at no profit margin be the single insurer that's what a single payer means they're the single insurer then we actually end up saving five trillion dollars over the course of 10 years and that's not kyle kalinsky talking that saving five trillion dollars over the course of 10 years and

that's not kyle kalinsky talking that's a detailed study from the university of massachusetts amherst now talking that's a liberal fucking place so what do you do when you have all these insurance companies like what happens to those insurance companies what happens to all those jobs what happens to all that money the insurance companies go away go away i mean they go away businesses go under so you kill yeah if i if i say you're not allowed to cut your lawn okay unless let's say the guy wants to charge you a hundred dollars right i say no joe i'm i'm gonna be the one who pays the person who cuts your lawn you have to give me two hundred dollars okay so if somebody came along and said no whoa whoa whoa hey middleman guy we're gonna get rid of you and your lawn you have to give me two hundred dollars okay so if somebody came

along and said no whoa whoa whoa hey middleman guy we're gonna get rid of you and joe you want to cut your lawn give that guy hundred dollars and you're all set wouldn't you say well that makes sense i the middleman guy it's he can piss off because that's the way i look at it the reality is when people argue for choice and health insurance look at it like this would you say hey man don't take away my choice when it comes to picking my firefighter? People are like, what do you mean? No, the way it works is there's a fire and you get help. End of discussion.

They will come. You don't say, whoa, whoa, whoa, I want to pick my fire department. Well, this is the same thing with health care. The idea, you're going to be able to pick your doctor. That's perfectly fine. But the idea of you'll have your choice between insurance companies, that's like saying, pick which, do you want the Irish mafia ripping you off or the Italian mafia ripping you off or the Jewish mafia ripping you off?

Go ahead. I'm giving you choice. Right, right, right. In some areas, the idea of choice is fundamentally absurd. It's like saying, well, let's shut off the road system. Instead of being public, let's have it privately run. And you could turn, make a left on that road, make a left on that road, or make a right on that road. Don't take away my choice of road.

I want to pay for that one or that one or that one. No, it's all there. It's all free at the point of service. And this is the whole idea of having a public utility. This is the whole idea of having something that's off the table in a civilized society. And again, what the studies show is it actually saves money. So the real question people should be asking is, how can we afford to keep having the system that we have right now? Because we pay more than the rest of the developed world, and we have 30,000 to 45,000 Americans that die every year because they don't have access to basic health care.

And we have 500,000 people who go bankrupt as a result of medical bills. So what you're saying is that it would abolish insurance companies, essentially? So there is one caveat to that, and that caveat is what's called supplemental health insurance. So what that means is if there's something that Joe Rogan likes that's a medical procedure that isn't scientifically proven yet, but it's still something that you like, there would be private health insurance companies

that sell you supplemental insurance, which means on top of everything that you already have through medicare for all so if you were getting like stem cell therapy or something like that well stems in in an ideal medicare for all system and bernie believe me has gone so far above and beyond any criticism i mean his thing is airtight it gives dental it gives vision it gets everything i wouldn't be surprised if under that medicare for all bill the stem cells thing is covered but let's say something like homeopathy which is like the water shit horse shit total horse shit you want to cover that by insurance no medicare for all would not cover that because it's so speculative private horse shit insurance private horse shit

insurance or or or plastic surgery things of that nature but that's an important point because real they have private surgery or private insurance for for plastic no no i'm saying it would be theoretically legal for it under a Medicare for All system because it's supplemental. How could you have insurance for plastic surgery? Like, you know, I decided my ears are too big.

So maybe the market wouldn't be there, but it would be legally possible is the point. So it doesn't fully ban private insurance, but it does ban what's called duplicative care.

So you can't say, hey, I'm an insurance company. I'm going to come in and offer you something that's already covered in full by the single-payer system. And the reason why that's there is we don't want you getting ripped off

by some charlatan. I see what you're saying. But it would essentially gut the health insurance industry. It would make it so that you no longer have health insurance company CEOs making tens of millions of dollars

off the backs of people while people die because they can't get health insurance. Yes, it tens of millions of dollars off the backs of people while people die because they can't get health insurance yes it would and that's a good thing that's a positive thing it's a good thing for us but as a sale like to sell that well that well the thing is there's we have this issue with where we have like a status quo bias where people think like well because it works how it works right now therefore the idea of addressing it and changing it seems like so overwhelming that we just kind of default to how we have it now but the problem is we know as a matter of fact that the way we do it now is the most batshit crazy way you could possibly do it because they research this stuff all the time they

study this stuff all the time and every single time they look at it the uS. comes dead last in the developed world when it comes to health care. So we finished. There was a recent study from the Commonwealth Fund. They found that they studied 11 different countries. The U.S. is 11th out of 11 when it comes to health care. So every other country that does the single-payer system, which we were talking about, and there's different versions of it. There's multi-payer. There's single-payer.

There's public funding of private insurance, public funding of public insurance. But bottom line is, any other way you do it is better than the way we do it right now. And just to be clear, because some people say, well, what about Obamacare? What was Obamacare? Obamacare was originally a Heritage Foundation plan, which is a right-wing think tank. So that was basically Mitt Romney's health care bill, Newt Gingrich's health care bill. And the whole idea of that was, we're going to force people to buy private insurance. And I don't like that idea at all.

I dislike that. I've been very critical of Obamacare. I think there's a good case to make that it was a step in the right direction because anything was better than the system that we had at the time. But I would say that was just a little step on the path to what we should have, which is a Medicare for all system where healthcare is a right and not a privilege. We catch up to the rest of the developed world. And again, we should go above and beyond the rest of the world. Cause like in Canada, I don't think they have dental covered by it, but Bernie's bill does provide dental. So, you know, I think that this is one of those issues where when it's fully

explained to people, it's kind of a no brainer and you can get people to realize like, no, no, no, the system is totally screwing you right now and we can fix it do you think he has a chance oh absolutely bernie sanders you really do okay well let me ask you this absolutely i do now let me ask you this who of the democrats do you foresee really beating him beating trump no no beating uh Beating Bernie in the primary. Well. It's a good question, right? It's a very good question.

He's got a lot of support, for sure. But Elizabeth Warren seems to have a lot of support right now, too. Okay, so that's your answer, right? Elizabeth Warren? Yeah, I would say. Well, Joe Biden's fucked. He's too old. But old in the wrong way. Like, his communication skills have eroded he he flubs his

words he looks exhausted he looks like he's just waiting for them to shut the door so he can take a big deep breath and just sink into the couch you know what i'm saying oh i know exactly what you're saying and i feel sometimes i feel bad because it appears like he genuinely has cognitive decline yeah oh he does so i don't like to make fun of it but then when he goes out there in the debate and he starts like angrily ranting and he says you know we got to play the record player at night make sure the kids hear words it's like that made less than no sense man what are you doing you got to wrap it up did you know that his people are actually they have a plan it's called like a limited exposure or limited visibility campaign where joe they are

literally like hiding him from the public as much as possible well they have to they have to because he's still close to the lead right oh in some polls he's still leading that is hilarious but see and here's the thing and this is what i was going to get to in relation to bernie i call the support for biden default support so default support is people who don't necessarily follow politics that closely but they might be a registered democrat and they're asked hey who do you support in the 2020 election i don't know who's running oh biden i know biden he was the vp of obama sure yeah biden why not that's the kind of support i think joe biden has where that is very very likely to kind of dwindle away and we're seeing it right now because when you look at the

fundraising numbers bernie is breaking all records when it comes to individual donations even outracing trump and trump's a beast on the campaign trail he's nothing to mess around with on the campaign trail but he's even outracing trump when it comes to individual donations his ground game is airtight he's got people everywhere making phone calls knocking on doors getting involved and so he has basically an endless well of small individual donor support and an army of people on the ground whereas joe biden is doing so bad that he went back on his pledge like oh i won't take super pack money now he's saying well if somebody were to make a super pack and it were to help me out what do you want me to tell you because he raised nine million

dollars in the last quarter bernie raised 30 and joe raised nine so bernie happy look at you i love politics i love talking about politics and explaining everything i know you do but you're so bernie happy well yeah because joe he's uh he's an amazing candidate who's just trying to get the u.s to have social democracy and he's a guy who i know because his record shows it he's going to fight for all of us even if you don't agree with him and even if you dislike him i understand that you might be somebody who's right-leaning he's too far left for you but what everybody has to say and they know it's true is he's incredibly honest and he's actually going to fight for you every step of the way yes no i think you're right i'm and talking to him he's a very sincere guy and i

think a lot of his policies i agree with i really really agree with this whole The exoneration of student loan debt That to me is a giant factor In a lot of poor decision making That a lot of young people make Because they're fucked Because they have this massive debt Hanging over their head It's a huge source of stress

And I think it's a rigged system I think it's dirty It's a dirty system Yeah The Medicare for all I think is a wonderful idea As long as you can seek You know, very talented orthopedic surgeons, if you've got some money and you need to get something fixed. Always pick your doctor.

Because there's a certain incentive that I think that certain doctors have towards excellence. And a lot of that incentive is financial. And the doctors that are the very best in certain particular fields, they want to charge more money for their services. And I think that that should be okay. That's one of the things that helps make people more enthusiastic about excellence. It's financial reward. It's a part of human nature. No, absolutely. human nature no absolutely and that's what one of the things that people despise about the concept of socialism is that it's going to somehow or another by you know making sure that no one makes

any more money than anybody else which is like the most extreme well that's like authoritarian communism yes yes yes but that's some i don't agree with that at all i don't either and people who i talk to who are my friends on the left they don't agree with that at all and one of the things that we get most annoyed with is when there's like a conflation, people will look at the former Soviet Union. People will look at Venezuela. People will look at Cuba. And they'll go, hey, well, that's what you want. And that's what they say to us.

And whenever we respond, no, man, we're talking about social democracy. We're talking about what they have in Scandinavia. There's usually no substantive rebuttal to that. Right. Other than to say, and what's funny, Joe, is they will take credit for those systems in some ways. So it depends. If you talk to Ben Shapiro on one day, he might say, no, no say no no joe those systems are so good because they're capitalist to an extent okay and if i fire back at ben and i go okay ben then let's implement that style of capitalism he'll

switch it and say no no there's socialists so we can't do that well which is it we have a giant problem in this country with this whole right left shit you know and this is what i was trying to say earlier when we're talking about the concept of classical liberals because most people don't even know what the fuck that means and when i said you know that's like being a cat like saying i'm a casual racist that didn't mean that's like saying a classical liberal as a casual you know what people would have interpreted wrong is what i was saying yeah they probably did it's okay maybe we should edit that out can we edit that out but the the idea behind it i just think that to have groups of people that think in certain ways, the problem with ideologies, whether it's left-leaning or right-leaning,

is it makes you automatically predisposed to ignore or to refute the concepts that are on the other side. I totally agree. And so many of us share these ideas across the board. And so many of us share these ideas across the board. And when one group is committed to one concept, like one of the things that you do see this about climate change, people on the right are more inclined to deny the negative effects of climate change because it's part of the right wing ideology. This is something we see today we need to get so you're right but also i would just advise people don't get too lost in the noise because we can think that that's something that's overwhelming and we can't defeat it and we could also think that you know for example the whole russiagate thing on the democratic side yes that was that became such a fundamentalist religion

and you couldn't deviate from the line that was exciting that's true we got so they wanted it to be true and people would believe it and argue for it, even though the things weren't adding up, and I was trying to point out where it's wrong. But what I would say is, at the end of the day, people should actually be relatively happy about the fact that I think the strongest divide in the country is not right versus left. The strongest divide in the country, I've called it populist versus elitist yeah so you have elitists in the democratic party you have elitists in the republican party and you have the people and the people are we're so much more in agreement than people give us credit for you know

i agree i have a thing that i go down and i did this in some of my events at politicon as well but people would be surprised man 80 of the country wants to raise the the minimum wage 58 of the country wants to have free college um like i said only 16 or so of the country wants to raise the minimum wage 58 percent of the country wants to have free college um like i said only 16 percent or so of the american people want to be involved in iraq and afghanistan and these terrible foreign wars 62 percent of the country wants to legalize marijuana i could sit here and ring off issue after issue it's over 80 percent of the american people that want to get the money out of the political system and clean up the corruption do you think that this country has room for other parties we're

so ingrained in this idea of left versus right democrat versus republican and this is the choices that we've always had with the occasional independent the occasional you know uh ross perot jumps into the race and throws a monkey wrench into everything but other than that or maybe in a to a minor extent, Gary Johnson, but do you think there's room for other parties at this juncture? So that's a great question. And what I would say is, first, let me give my personal take on it. My personal take is I 100% want that to be the case, because I prefer in many ways, aspects of a parliamentary system to our system. And I like the idea of having multiple parties, I like the idea of having more choice. So I want that to be true. And when I was one of the co-founders of Justice Democrats, when we launched it, we had to have those difficult conversations about how exactly do we go about trying to get these ideas implemented. a third party and have it work and take off, there is such a gigantic systemic bias against

that happening that you really do have ultimately the choice of Republican or Democrat. So then the idea becomes, okay, it's a reform movement now. We have to try to reform the Democratic Party. And there are people on the right who can try to reform the Republican Party. Like if you're somebody on the right and you agree more with Ron Paul and you're more libertarian, you want to end the wars, you want to legalize drugs. I hope those people take over the Republican Party and you have people who are against like corporate welfare and whatnot in that party. So what we really need to do is, because it's just the nature of our system, because there's such a bias against third parties, what we really need to do is harness all that energy to fix things and just try to take over

the existing infrastructure, because you're not going to build a counter infrastructure because there's so much name recognition it's like saying there's democrat and there's republican yeah technically we could start up rc cola and see if we could get a significant market share but you're not going to do it you're not going to do it it's not going to work so really and again i don't want this to be the answer but just factually speaking it is the answer that we have to try to overtake you know the corrupt elements within the system and and bring about change that way because that's the only way i think it will really work well the only way it's going to really work is if what you were talking about with voting on very specific issues because if you most of the things that are problems are not benefiting people they're benefiting the people that are problems. They're not benefiting people. They're benefiting the people that are in positions

of power and positions where they can influence the way policy is dictated because they've contributed to campaigns and because they've got this sort of revolving door thing going on with universities where mathematics professors and economic professors sort of dictate policy or advise, and then they get jobs and banks and then you've got this whole weird thing going on with people in the government right that's right i mean that was exposed in uh what was that uh the inside job inside job which is a fantastic documentary for people to understand the collapse but you it's not benefiting us all these things that happen and all this corruption that takes place and all this influence never benefits us.

That's exactly right. But that's what's weird about it. And if we got a chance to vote on most of these ideas instead of voting on politicians and then the politicians implement these ideas to benefit themselves and benefit the special interest groups that got them into place then things would be much better okay um you have no idea how happy i am that you just said that because jamie it's official i sold joe rogan on my idea oh it's a great idea on my direct democracy law it's a great idea right off right off the bat i loved it because i trust and i have no problem saying that some people will come after me for it i don't care but i trust if somebody's watching this and they're right leaning and they have their opinions and whatnot i actually trust that person more on the issues than i trust chuck schumer or nancy pelosi and i'm somebody i'm on the left right and i do not agree with these nominally on the left politicians these democratic politicians because i think they're elitist and i

think they're corrupt and i don't think they're looking out for our best interest but i think that somebody who disagrees with me ideologically, who might be watching this right now, they have more common sense and they're not bought. Right. They're not bought. Right. That's the big thing. They're not bought. There's so much more agreement than we think.

Yeah. And so if you actually give people that option where you say, no, no, no, you're going to directly vote on this, then I think we're going to see, honestly, I think over 80% of the time, the more reasonable position will win. Every now and then you'll get one that for whatever reason, there might be misinformation or whatever, and it's overwhelming, and then they'll lose. But getting it right 80% of the time is a hell of a lot better than what we have right now, which is amazing, Joe, because Congress routinely polls around 20% favorability. This is a body that we could just elect them, and then you poll a month later, hey, what do you think of Congress?

Everybody's like, I hate them. They're terrible. How can that be? It's because we all know we're voting for the lesser of two evils every time we go to the polls. Right. Yeah. Direct democracy. Direct democracy.

Every presidential election, take the three biggest issues. We all vote on it, along with who we want for president. Well, that's just arbitrary. We could say five, whatever it might be. But I think that it's good. Between three and five, I think, makes the most sense, because you want something where everybody will pay attention to it and we could talk about it a lot. You know what I mean? That seems like a very realistic system of reform.

That's what I'm saying. Look at you. You're excited. That's what I'm saying, man. I think it's a good idea. And I think that would really nip in the bud a lot of corruption. It goes right around it. Yeah.

It goes right around it. Now, I also think that at the same time, you do have to try to get a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics so that we kind of get to the root of the corruption. But I also think that this direct democracy idea is a great idea because you do get to go right around the corruption and you can actually kind of circumvent a lot of the problems that of politics because it's so big it's such a giant part of how all this shit gets done and once a system gets entangled and like deeply rooted that's right but the system of it is actually kind of new it has a really fascinating backstory as to how this came about so there were a series of court decisions uh there was one in the late 1970s was that buckley versus vallejo or was that Bilotti? Whatever. There were like three or four court decisions over the years starting in the late 1970s

that kind of culminated with Citizens United in the modern era and McCutcheon in the modern era. And what people do is they wrongly think like Citizens United and McCutcheon were the biggest problem. But no, they actually shot a dead horse because the previous court cases set the precedent of money equaling speech. This is the legal theory that's now operating around the country is that money equals speech. So if you want to, if you're an outside group and you want to spend on an election, hey man, it's your free speech. If you're a billionaire and you want to dump $50 million into an election to say, keep my taxes as low as possible, that's free speech and you have every right to do that. So that's the legal theory that we now operate under and that has basically legalized bribery you can't like give money directly to a politician and say i want you to

do x because that's called a quid pro quo that's direct bribery but all you have to do is add a little bit of nuance and don't say it directly and have it implied and you're good so when this is the ukraine thing with trump this is essentially exactly what you're talking about that is kind of like the ukraine thing except with trump was just trying to get dirt on his far on his opponent in the election but the quid pro quo aspect of it yeah that's always been weasley whether it's trump saying it or whether it's other politicians saying it when they act like hey there was no quid pro quo yeah but we all know why exxon mobile gives millions of dollars lobbies congress to the tune of millions of dollars because they want that four billion dollar subsidy everybody knows that yeah it doesn't have to be yeah it's

implied clearly yes we're not idiots everybody gets that and so that's like the weasley last resort to say no quid pro quo right please get out of here so anyway but there's an argument that really busts up this idea that money equals speech that I absolutely love. And it's, okay, well, if money equals speech, then murder for hire would have to be legal. Because I'm not saying, I'm not giving you money to murder somebody. I'm just using my speech to say, I don't have a problem with murder. You're allowed to do that. You should be able to get any kind of drug you want.

You should be able to go to any kind of prostitute you want. And the dodge will always be, I'm not paying for no because money equals speech i'm just saying i'm just saying murder is okay i'm just saying you know i want a hooker or whatever it might be you know what i mean so but this is this is the logic of that ruling actually applied i see what you're saying right yeah oh money equals speech okay Does it equal speech in these ways? Oh, it doesn't. Oh, it only equals it when it comes to politics. That's interesting.

Do you have aspirations of running for office someday? I don't really. Really is a weird word. Well, okay. I'll explain what that means. I've learned to never say never, okay? Because I'm not, it's just, you can be wrong. So maybe when I'm 42 years old, I get the urge and I say you know

what I want to run for office but right now you're you enjoy talking about it quite a bit and you're how old are you I am 31 that's very young to be as immersed in politics as you are and it's for as long as you've been yeah how long have you been doing this 2012 I started doing it I think late 2012 full-time yeah that's seven fucking years man yeah it's a long time i'm an old young guy yes that's an interesting way of putting it yeah yeah but i mean i love this aspect of it joe here's the thing in my heart of hearts i'm more like you're a comedian yes i'm more like i like hanging out with guys like you and fucking around and joking around and i don't like like if i were to ever officially jump into politics, I know what it's like,

man. I know the first thing they do is because they've already done it to me. Oh, dig up his old tweets. See what he was saying. He said that thing. That thing is wrong. And then it's all this whole circus. I don't have the patience for that. I don't give a fuck. If they come after me, I'll be like, shut the fuck up. I don't care. It's old. Who gives a shit?

So, you know, it's just, it's a whole other world it's a whole other ball game and being an outsider and being able to call a spade a spade because i got news for you they don't the system does not like people like me the system does not like people like bernie they don't like people like tulsi they don't like these kinds of people well they don't like people like trump either and he's the president well exactly and again this gets back to the whole uh populist versus elitist thing i think trump was probably the most effective what i would call a fake populist of all time is that he was giving this image of a populist this image that he's going to fight for the working man and then

as we already described earlier uh you know the status quo just kind of continued chugging along as it is look at his tax bill it's the most establishment pro-establishment bill of all time so he's an amazing populist uh but i would say it's a fake populist because his policies differ from that but you're right they don't like people who have no filter they don't like people who really like i actually think your average american would be much better at running the government than any of these schmucks who are there right now who are you know massively wealthy and massively corrupt as long as they didn't also become corrupt yeah but and that's that's the important point about why you need systemic reform is that any normal person can become a part of the problem because the system will beat

you down right and that's just the nature of the way it works but no i don't want to run for office because i like what i'm doing. You enjoy just commenting on it. And also you enjoy doing it on your own time. You do it whenever you want to. I make my own schedule. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I pump stuff out like crazy. You do.

But you also don't have an overlord. No boss. I can't have a boss. I don't have that personality that meshes with it. I just don't. And it's like trying to tame a zebra. You can't do you can tame a horse you can't tame a zebra that's a good point yeah so you can't tame a zebra so i i don't want to do it i know that some people uh want me to do it but it's not i don't like the idea of it well i always enjoy talking to you man and we

should probably do these more often because i learned a lot of shit from you too thank you it fills in blanks and And like I said, I think you're the most reasonable guy that's doing this in terms of like doing political commentary on YouTube and on the internet. I really appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you.

Let's do it more often, my friend. Sure, man. Just got to force me on a plane. That's it. I will force you on a plane. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, man.

Tell everybody how they can get a hold of you. Your Instagram and Twitter. I don't have an Instagram. I have a Twitter. I'm like Trump, only Twitter. At Kyle Kalinsky on Twitter and it's Secular Talk on YouTube. Okay. Bye, everybody.

That was great. Yeah, that was fun. We could go for like five hours.