The Joe Rogan Experience - #141 - Duncan Trussell

Episode Date: September 25, 2011

Joe sits down with Duncan Trussell.

So, this is what's going on, folks. We're sitting here waiting for Graham Hancock to get here. He was doing some sort of a seminar in Orange County. And so, that's like at least an hour away. So, Duncan and I, instead of just sitting here staring at each other, decided to stare at each other online. So, that's the basic motivation for this podcast. Yep. I ended up... Getting out here is crazy, man. I ended up in some...

My GPS took me in a bad direction this time. You're out in the middle of nowhere, man. I ended up in a place that was like the surface of the moon. I don't know where the fuck it was. Spooky. It was spooky. Like I could have gone off a cliff and no one would have found me for a week. You'd be fine, dude.

Don't worry about it. You're tweaking. Stop your tweaking, son. I'm tweaking, bro. Are you scared of nature? Terrifying. No, I'm not scared of nature. But I am scared at night when you're going around, like, winding curves through meth country.

I'm not exactly, like'm not exactly comfortable with those. Curly's Lou lives out there. There's a lot of people who live out there. Yeah, but my window. They like space. They like to be away from each other. I like space. Why do people assume that, but it is a strange thing.

Why do people assume that when someone wants to be away, that they want some space between you and them? There's something creepy about them. Oh, they're out there fucking cooking meth. Yes. You automatically assume, why is that cabin by itself with that chimney blowing smoke? What the fuck are they cooking in there? Yeah.

You don't look at it and go, look at that guy. He's out there just doing it by himself, chopping wood. No, you assume automatically that some creepy thing is going on out there if he's by himself. When traditionally the creepy people are the ones who live underneath you in your apartment. Those are the real creeps. The ones who are masturbating to your footsteps. I have a footstep fetish. Oh, yes.

There was a documentary. You know the VBS.tv? Yes. I wouldn't call it a documentary. I guess I'd call it an episode where they went and they went and visited this guy who lives in like northern eastern Alaska. He lives like way the fuck up there. They have to drop him off supplies. And he lives in this little tiny shack.

And he's like one of the few people that's allowed to live there. And he's been there for like 20 years. This dude never even saw 9-11. He never saw the towers go down. He'd like heard that something had happened. He's so removed from everything. He's got like a little generator. Sometimes he powers up a TV,

and he's got movies that they watch. But dude, this guy's living in the woods in a tiny one-room house with his wife, who looks like some sort of an Eskimo type of woman. This guy's living in the woods in a tiny one-room house with his wife, who looks like some sort of an Eskimo type of woman, and they're fucking happy as shit up there. He says that hunting and gathering is what keeps you happy, and that's what keeps him happy.

He's out there shooting caribou and following them. I mean, this fucking dude loves it. He loves living up there. It sounds great. He had to shoot a bear on one of the episodes because the bear had came too close to his house. Bears kill their dogs and shit. So it's the middle of the night. They're running after this guy with a camera,

and he's running through the woods with a fucking shotgun. And boom, boom, boom. He's just blowing holes into this fucking bear and chasing it down while they're all chasing after him with cameras in the middle of the night in the woods in alaska dude it's gnarly it's it's it's a it's amazing footage too it's it's a such an interesting insight into someone who would choose to live that life you know which seems so horrifying to us but to him like our life is just fucking mundane there's nothing to it

he just can't get excited about it. I don't think it's horrifying. I think it sounds amazing. I mean, there's something about being self-sufficient that seems like it would feel so incredibly good to be completely off the grid and know that if everything fell apart, your life would barely shift at all. Yeah, that's interesting, right? But is that like instincts to not join the system? I mean, is that what that is?

Is that some sort of a resistance of the hive that would feel good to not need all these people? Isn't that ridiculous? Because the reason why everything is so awesome, the reason why society in general is so awesome, is because millions of people contributed to make this one colossal thing that relies on millions of people but it but because all these other people are involved it's fucking awesome it's amazing it's got some terrible parts about it too but the idea itself and what can be accomplished with it is fucking amazing so why do we want to not need that why do we want what do we want the keep the option open to be a cunt so you can just fucking fuck off i'm just gonna go live off caribou in the middle of nowhere well that's the that that's

like the argument you know like people have that argument against monks like when someone goes and becomes a monk it's the same argument it's like what are you doing you're ignoring all of society to go and do and be a monk isn't it better to be in the world than it is to go and isolate yourself how if you do go and isolate yourself are you so what whatever you learn you're still it's not applicable to people in the world but some monks i don't think they give a shit you know some people they just don't care they're they're not concerned with the society they don't it doesn't make any difference to them whether they're contributing or not like who cares right yeah and i hear you man i know what you're saying i've had that thought in my

head about monks you know like like what kind of a loser just wears a fucking orange robe and never beats off and just hides and chants all day right like dude you're missing out on muscle cars blow jobs great movies weed cookies um you know you're missing out on killer restaurants you're missing out on shit talking and the monks like you're missing out on astral projection you can't send your spirit to the higher dimensional planes to communicate with the supreme gods your third eye is sealed shut you have no idea about the what it feels like to be completely in tune vibrating with the harmony of the universe you're just you're just humping so you're just leg humping down there in the city while i'm floating around through the eternal paradise uh outside of time

and space and like a pure transcendent bliss do you think there's a monk who could talk that good shit if there's a monk who could talk like that and say things like that that guy should like be doing tours you know it would recruit monks like left and right you could change the world if a guy could speak that way about being a monk yeah well they they i think what theoretically what may happen is that as as you uh evolve and and begin to like open your chakras up and this is purely theoretical but i think that you begin to extinguish the desire to even to tour you extinguish the desire to to do to to perform you don't want to do that anymore you're just kind of in another place altogether right you've zoomed out. It's like Google Maps. You've zoomed so far out that you...

So you're saying that the more you would go down the road of meditation, the less you would want to do stand-up comedy? Are you saying that? Is that what you mean by tour? Yeah, well, no. Yeah, I mean like the exhibitionism. You know, like the... You were saying somebody who talks like that should tour and talk to people.

Oh, I see. I'm saying someone who talks like that should tour and talk to people. I'm saying someone who talks like that, you know, and it's all a theoretical idea, but the assumption when someone becomes a renunciate, I think, is that they're not experiencing happiness. Right, right. When it may be that the thing that they're experiencing is a million times better than what they were experiencing in the world. Well, I know for a fact that I have achieved at least bizarre states of consciousness just from yoga. I remember one time I was in New York and I was real nervous. I had to do the Howard Stern show the next day.

It was the first time I ever did it. I was genuinely nervous and I couldn't sleep. So I was in my hotel room reading off of this ancient yoga book and doing these poses, and I did yoga for like an hour and a half. And at the end of it, I felt fucking great. I mean, I didn't just feel great. I felt high. I felt tingly.

My body was like I felt tingles like a glowing tingle i mean i did this intense yoga routine for an hour and a half and when it was over my body had just stretched everything out released all the tension opened up all the the whatever the fuck it is you want to call it chakras you want to call it senses you want to call it chakras, you want to call it senses, you want to call it, you know, your, your, your, your, whatever, your ability to tune in to what's around you

was all, it was just cranked to 10. I was like, wow, if this was a drug, if this feeling like an intense yoga workout, you know,

it can feel very much like a real mild pot, you know? Yeah. Like, ooh, like nothing, nothing that's going to make you

fucking drive shitty or forget, forget your keys, but something that's going to make you fucking drive shitty or forget your keys. But something that's going to make you just a little, just a wow, I feel a little better. Right. I feel a little more relaxed. I feel a little sensitive. I feel, I feel good. Yeah.

Well, that's a, you know, that, that's, I felt that too from yoga and I felt that from chanting and I felt that from any kind of ritualistic thing that has you know spiritual undertones to it which i think yoga does you got deep into chanting right didn't you you got at one point in time you were you know you you like you can chant out that fucking crazy i got deep into it what is that thing that you you busted out on the podcast that thing is that that's a harikrishna prayer that's a prayer that you read before, that you say before you're going to read the Bhagavad Gita. And it means... Do Hare Krishnas read the Bhagavad Gita? Oh, yeah.

It's their primary text. That and the Srimad Bhagavatam. Whoa. But the, yeah, you say that prayer. And they have a bunch of other texts, too. I mean, they're really, that's how they spend most of their time is studying the Vedas. I know almost nothing about the hari krishnas all i know that when i when i was a kid people made fun of the hari krishnas it was like a stock joke you know oh sure oh and in movies too an airplane

and so many movies they get made fun of because they would go and hang out at the airports and they're these guys in saffron robes with shaved heads right so it was like they were trying to sell books right yeah they try to they try to sell books and so there's a lot of reasons that they did get made fun of and it was like for for me what happened to me was um well there's also a bunch of legal cases too right weren't there like real cult-like scenarios oh yeah it's organized religion, man. And it's hardcore organized religion that recommends, you know, renouncing the world like it doesn't tiptoe around the fact like it's hardcore into the idea that the way to live if you really want to be happy is to let go of all the things of the world and start chanting the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra. But it's very important to realize that that mantra is not owned by ISKCON, which is the Hare Krishnas. That's like the Catholic Church for this sect of Hinduism, which is known as Bhakti Yoga.

So there's a lot of different schools of thought in it, and it's a very deep philosophy that has its roots in the idea that everything comes from God. And so the word Krishna translates into the reservoir of all pleasure. So the idea is like all pleasure, into the reservoir of all pleasure. So the idea is like all pleasure, all opulence, all happiness, everything springs from some source, like the Big Bang, except the spiritual Big Bang. And they believe that this is an intelligent force in the universe that has specific qualities. And so people are kind of born with this case of amnesia where they've forgotten that this even exists and so they begin to become attracted to these qualities and different things so people are attracted to beauty people are attracted to intelligence people are attracted

to wealth people are attracted to um strength but they say that these are just the sort of the uh what people are seeing is the qualities of the Supreme being reflected through the material universe, and that's what people are attracted to. And so by this specific process of bhakti yoga, you begin to turn your senses back towards the original source of all this stuff through this very, very strict discipline of chanting, not eating meat. They recommend the monks that wear the robes. It's called the four regulative principles. So you don't eat meat. You don't use any intoxicants, no sex, and no gambling. You wake up at 4 every morning, 4.30 every morning.

You chant, I think, 16 rounds of this mantra, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Krishna Hare Hare Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Hare Hare. And you study and you live in a temple and that's how you spend your life. And that's like... And you're studying the Bhagavad Gita. You're studying the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam and all these other religious texts. And you get deep, deep, deep into it to the point where you complete. I mean, they recommend, as I recall, it's like even your family is just your karma, like your attachment to your family. It's just your karma, your attachment to your family. It's just your karma. It's like, let go of all those

attachments, surrender to this higher force, and then you'll experience transcendent happiness. And the ultimate goal in life is to try to connect with God. That's the only reason to be alive. And if you're not engaged in that activity, then're miserable then you're not really experiencing the type of happiness that and even if you think you're experiencing happiness it's nothing compared to what you can obtain from uh living like a spiritual life and chanting this mantra and what happened to me but this is you're not saying this is your opinion you're saying this is what no that's what you know it's a summary of it. It's not my opinion. But what happened to me...

You're saying it almost like in the first person. Oh, yeah. I'm just explaining it. You don't really believe that, though, right? No. I mean, I'm a comedian. I was just smoking in front of House of Blues drunk. I'm not like...

Right, but have you ever considered that maybe that would be a path that you would get so interested in? Because you are interested in all those principles. You are interested in higher consciousness and truth. Have you ever thought about doing something like joining the monastery? Well, what happened was, when I got into the Hare Krishna, that's what happened to me, was... Because, you know, if you have an experience, you've had an experience. There's no way around it. If you have an experience, you have to accept that the experience

happened, and you have to tell the truth about the experience one way or the other. So, for me to not talk about that part of my life or to pretend that I wasn't, I had a conversion experience where I was in this temple on Jomastami, which is what they call the appearance date of Krishna. It's like Christmas, basically. And what had just happened before that is someone had gotten me really high, like really stoned. So I was sitting in the temple and they're like ringing bells and they have these like deities that they worship and they're pouring this, I believe they pour like milk on the deities. And it's like, there's just, it's all your senses are being overwhelmed. They're burning incense. They've got like flowers everywhere. So the whole place is garlands of flowers. So it's just the smell of flowers and incense and monks, you know, like the guys with the shaved heads and the necklaces that they wear and like bells ringing. So your senses are completely overcome. had this experience before or since, but I was looking at these symbols and all of a sudden the symbols, it felt like I was seeing past the symbols into something deeper than what those

symbols were. The symbols were just a human's attempt to try to embody this greater thing that exists in the universe. And all of a sudden I I felt the only way I can explain it is it felt like I was sounds so crazy, felt like I was on a spaceship. I thought, oh, this is like an advanced, this is what an advanced intelligence is like this felt it felt like I was looking at something that was a billion times smarter than I was, and that it was being somehow tuned into in this ritual that if you were outside the ritual, it would just look like a lot of pomp and maybe some brainwashed people, you know, going through the motions of something. But in the inside of it, it felt like this incredible blast of super intelligence. And

that happened to me. And like, it changed me for mine. For the rest of my life, I'll be changed because of that. I'll never be the same after that. What do you think it was? Do you think it was a combination of anxiety because all these people are there? You said you were high? Yes. What were you high on? Marijuana.

Did you eat it or smoke it? Smoked it. What do you think it was? What do you attribute it to? What do you attribute? I mean, that's a pretty crazy experience you're talking about. Well, I mean, I think that what it was... You think it was the chant? Yeah, it's the chant.

I mean, if you chant Hare... The thing about Hare Krishna is you don't have to be a Hare Krishna to chant Hare Krishna. And that's the thing that they always said. The thing that Prabhupada, the founder of the Hare Krishna, said is just chant it. You have nothing to lose. What the fuck does it do? You're saying this specific synchronized series of sounds, this chant, has an effect that actually puts you in a psychedelic state?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's why all the hippies loved it, man. Whoa. Yeah, totally. That's why all the hippies loved it, man. Whoa. Yeah, totally. Think of yoga. Yoga is specific movements that you do, that if you do these movements, you go into, like what you said,

this mild psychedelic state. Well, that's just one form of, that's hatha yoga or whatever particular type of yoga you were doing. But in the same way, these mantras that they have induce a very specific experience. That if you do it enough, the only way to explain it is your mood will lighten. You know that heaviness, man?

There's a heaviness that people get that I get. And if I'm deeply in this state, that's what I consider like the road rage state. You know what I mean? Where I'm likely to scream at a car cutting me off or something. If you chant Hare Krishna or any of the others, a lot of other mantras out there, and you do it regularly just for a week, then you will experience a change in your consciousness. How is that? How are you attributing that? What could possibly be, from a scientific standpoint? Let's look at the scientific.

Let's look at what a scientist might say. I think a scientist would say, well, it's a placebo effect. You could decide to chant any mantra. You could make anything up. You could chant rum-dee-doe-dee-doe-do-de-do if you wanted to and do that enough times. If you believe, the intention creates the change. That would be the scientific explanation of it. The religious explanation of it is that what you're doing is you're tuning yourself in to a specific, you're tuning your neurology in.

tuning yourself in to a specific, you're tuning your neurology in. When you're chanting, you're addressing the language center of your brain. You're focusing in on the specific pattern. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama Rama Rama, Hare Hare. And you do it a certain way. Do it how you do it. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Rama Rama. That's how you would do it if you were alone by yourself?

If I'm alone by myself and chanting, I chant fast. So it's like... Well, Ram Dass talked about this and said that it's kind of the way you chant is just an indication of where you are in life. So if I'm more relaxed, the chanting will slow down. But because of just the way I am, I end up chanting fast. I'll try to slow myself down, but it just ends up going fast again.

I just was watching a video of Prabhupada chanting, and he chants relatively fast. So it creates this sound. Here, listen. It creates this weird, trippy sound, especially when you're... Do it for real intentions. You're easily the weirdest human being ever. Bust that out like that. That's easily the weirdest human being. Bust that out like that. That's awesome.

That's the chant. But what's cool about it is if you listen to the chant, it has the OM in it. And some people will just chant the OM. Or some people will just chant ROM. That's another chant. ROM, ROM, ROM, ROM, ROM, ROM, ROM. All of these are, no matter what you think, That's another chant. All of these are, no matter what you think, and I know people are going to think I'm a new age freak or whatever, but I'm not. I'm just telling the truth.

It's helped me immensely in my life. I don't think anyone should do anything more than what they're comfortable with. But if you're having a bad trip, if you're freaking out in your life, but especially if you're having a shitty trip and you start chanting Hare Krishna, you will feel better. Every time, man. If you could remember how it goes, if you're really blitzkrieged out of your mind talking to the Lucky Charms guy

at the top of the world, you're not going to remember when I get super baked and get in the top of the world. You're not going to remember the Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Om, Om, Om. When I get super baked and get in the tank, I Om. Yeah. Because when you're in the tank,

you know, first of all, mine is very tall. It's like seven feet tall. And there's a sound when your ears are underwater that's really bizarre, man. When you make a body noise like a Om.

Om. man when you make a body noise like a home and that'll be my all my breaths every breath is just that home and it's echoing so as i'm taking in my inhale i'm still hearing the exhale echo and then home and i can i And I get deep. Yeah. I go deep into crazy train town. Crazy train town. In the woods. Yeah. Yeah, the woods of the universe. Well, that sound is considered the original sound vibration of the universe. That's the sound that all things emerge from. That's like the basic primordial sound.

Ohm. Why? Why ohm? I mean, if there was a big bang, do you think it went om or do you think it went ba-fucking-boom? Ba-boom! By the way, what a shitty theory that is. The Big Bang is the shittiest theory ever. And I'm not a scientist, and clearly I'm retarded.

And I know that there's some evidence, supposedly, that some big explosion happened 14 billion years. But they have no idea why everything was smaller than the head of a pin. What are you talking about? So wait a minute, wait a minute. Everything was smaller than the head of the pin. Why was it smaller than the head of the pin? We don't know. We don't know. But we do believe that there was an infinite point where the whole universe was smaller than the head of a pin.

And they don't even know why. It's the weirdest fucking conversation ever. It's like someone said it best it might have been mckenna i think terence mckenna said um it's as if they're asking you just believe in magic only once right right yeah they um they've recently uh figured out a way to get subatomic particles to move faster in light. So that's what they believe they've accomplished now. So that was just really a week ago. The scientists were saying time travel is impossible because the speed of light cannot be surpassed. And then, like a couple weeks later, these guys say they've got subatomic particles to move faster in light.

Time travel is open again. So that's the implication. Yeah. Time travel's the big implication. Because once they figure out how to actually... It would require an immense amount of power. But just think about what powers your cell phone today. And what it was like to have those Apollo 11 computers when they filled entire rooms.

And they weren't nearly as powerful as your cell phone. And your cell phone is not even plugged in anything. It's in your fucking pocket. Can you explain what that is? Maybe you can, because I don't understand it. They blasted some neutrinos or something, and the neutrinos were, they reached where they were supposed to reach a few milliseconds before they should have reached it or something?

That's a huge question, so let's look it up on Google, because i'm not the person to answer this and also i don't think they've totally confirmed it yet i think a lot of people are still saying that there's a high likelihood for some kind of error in the experiment of course and well everybody's going to say that anyway when something's that crazy yeah you know when someone says i figured out time travel bitch figure out let me see your papers you didn't figure out time travel. Let me see your paper, bitch. Yeah, I was thinking about time travel. If there really was a time traveler, then they could follow somebody by walking in front of them.

Wow. That's, yeah. Because you would know where they were going already, so you could walk in front of them on whatever. You would have to have a really fucking detailed list of all the shit that's already gone down you'd have to see it you'd have to send a time probe back first to like watch the and watch the whole world observe whoever you wanted to study run out of time you die you die of old age no if you wanted you could send you could like it you know if you wanted to observe like thomas jefferson or something right Which would be incredible. Yeah, right. To get real video of the founding fathers. Who would you go to?

If you had just an open ticket back in time. Clearly the first person I visit is Jesus. No. Hold on. Jesus or Buddha. Jesus or Buddha. That's a tough choice. I think I'd...

No. The first human. I want to visit the first I'd... No. The first human. I want to visit the first human, I guess. The first human? You would want to see cavemen on the field? Yeah, I think that... I mean, if I had a bunch of chances, that's the first thing I'd like to see.

Then I'd move up to Buddha. And then, um... I don't know. All right, here's what it is. The research clearly shows that when a total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos were fired, the tiny particles traveled the 730-kilometer 2.43-millisecond trip roughly 60 nanoseconds faster than light. Wow. That's faster than light.

Because that... That's just... That's period. That's not, they think. So that's it? Yeah, that's not they think so that's it yeah that's it yeah by saying that this is CERN

that's putting this out so that's it so if you don't know who CERN is folks C-E-R-N look it up it's the people that are responsible for the large

Hadron Collider which is the the craziest scientific experiment ever that's going on right now I believe it's in Switzerland right Switzerland, Sweden

one of those underground fucking incredible gigantic particle collider that is uh supposed to uncover this thing called the higgs boson particle which they call or excuse me boson people have corrected me on my apologies boson the god particle yeah but now they're saying that it's 95 sure that it doesn't exist yeah fuck too Fuck. Too bad. You know, you imagine that? They built this gigantic fucking billion dollars, obviously finding out a bunch of other shit.

Well, yeah, I'll take time traveler or some stupid particle. Well, who knows what that particle means. They did create that quark-gluon plasma shit that's, I believe it's one sugar cube is like 400 billion pounds or something fucking crazy. That's what it weighs and they created some incredibly negligible amount you know some tiny thank goodness yeah don't want a lot of that shit laying around could you imagine if they made like a marble sized chunk of it it just

dropped through the earth just shot right like water and core. Like water. The Earth would just be like a big droplet of water. I wonder how much weight it would take for that to happen. Like, for sure, if you had a bowling ball full of this quark-gluon plasma shit, that shit would just go right through the Earth. Right through the Earth. A bowling ball would have to be some insane amount of weight. Yeah, it would be...

Yeah, I don't know what the weight would be. Someone should. I don't know. Try wrapping your head around something that's that dense. Think about a fat person. Think about Fat James from the condo store. Remember Fat James? Love Fat James.

Great guy. Calls himself Fat James, folks. We look off. It's his nickname. It's Fat James who calls you up. Hey, it's Fat James. Yep. You think about him as a human he's not a tall fellow

but he's fairly heavy and you look at him and go wow that's a lot of weight right there now think about if he was a quark gluon plasma you know what I'm saying can you even wrap your head around that if a sugar cube is 40 billion or 400 billion

fucking pounds whatever insane when you say 40 billion or 400 billion fucking pounds, whatever the hell it is, whatever insane. When you say 40 billion or 400 billion, I know that there's a big difference in those two numbers. But to me, none of them even register. I'm just making noises with my mouth. I don't know what 40 billion means or 400 billion means. That to me is like it's too abstract. It's too big.

I'm not assimilating that. But to think of a fat James Made out of this stuff How is that even possible That there could be two types of matter That are both So far different from each other That they could be the same size And one of them would be literally the weight of the fucking earth

Probably not in time-lapse Yeah, it's insane to think about that And it's insane to think that these people are down there Tinkering around under Switzerland trying to make this shit. That's what's creepy. Well, they make only little tiny amounts of it. You know, they've got a great sense of humor about it. They dress up like the Half-Life dudes and they've taped pictures of them pretending to be the characters in Half-Life.

Because if you don't know, the video game Half-Life was all about scientists cracking a hole in the universe and aliens come over, fuck everybody up. Awesome game. What an awesome game that is. But dude, I like to think about, one thing I like to think about is the Large Hadron Collider accident. Like what it would look like. And like the way I see it, it goes like this. You're on the internet. You look on wherever you go, CNN, and it says, fire Large Hadron Collider. That's the first thing you see. And you go cnn and it says fire large hadron collider that's the first

thing you see and you're like oh that sucks now it doesn't there was an explosion underground that's it then like five minutes later it's like this fire is spreading like no fire we've ever seen before like the fire's just all of a sudden just racing through switzerland no one understands why it's spreading that fast and i'm like the fuck? And then the next thing you think is, what's that? You're just gone. Because this fucking energy beam is shot around the planet in like a millisecond and just wiped everything out. That's how I know I've eaten too much pot. Because inevitably my mind will start going to the large.

I'll start getting nervous about the large hadron collider. Have you eaten too much pot today? No. You're okay? Totally fine. You're totally fine? How much of that cookie did you take? Just a crumb. I didn't even open. nervous about the large hadron collider have you eaten too much pot today no you're okay totally fine you're totally fine how much of that cookie did you take just a crumb i didn't even open oh yeah i took a crumb good move yeah i'm not i i've i've fucked up so many times yeah you know i'm 100 for marijuana legalization but i think you should at least have to read a book or watch a documentary

before you eat one of those cookies yes you don't know what the fuck you're getting into. I could eat a cookie. It's just a cookie. It's no big deal, man. I'm going to eat the whole cookie. Those cookies are crippling sometimes. Sometimes because you don't know how many. There's no standard dose.

Like when you get a cookie and it says 2X, what the fuck does that mean? You know, two doses? Two doses for who? 2Xs, 3Xs. I don't know what this fucking. You're using a porn system for this shit? You're using the porn rating system? Dude, I had a one bite of a very small cookie.

This cookie was only like the size of a, not even, just slightly larger than a quarter. Yeah. It was a small cookie. I took a little bite out of it. I said, let's just be careful. I'll take a little bite out of it. An hour later, I literally, my whole body was tingling. I wanted to just lie down on the carpet and make like carpet angels. I was blitzkrieged. I mean, roaring, roaring through

the tunnels of reality, clinging to the earth as it spins a thousand miles an hour. I was gone. All I could think of is, what the fuck would happen if I took that whole cookie? I couldn't even keep my eyes open. What would happen? I was like this. I was just sitting there. I was like cuddling with myself on the couch. I was blasted.

Yeah. Meanwhile, the phone rang, and I picked up the phone. Hello. I was talking to a buddy of mine. Yo, what's up, dude? No, everything's cool. You all right? Yeah, I think. No, I'm just getting some writing done. All right, man. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Hello. I was talking to a buddy of mine. Yo, what's up, dude? No, everything's cool. You all right? Yeah, I think.

No, I'm just getting some writing done. All right, man. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Click. Oh! Right back into it. I could talk on the phone.

I could be okay. I was functioning. Yeah. But I was thinking, what if I took that whole fucking cookie? Yeah. That's funny, though, that thing you just said about how that part of your mind, the part of your mind that clicks back in, no matter how deep the psychedelic experience is, there is a part of your mind. It puts a flashlight in your eyes.

Yeah. Like, dude, we're cool. It's all right. Everything's fine. Sure. Yeah, it's very strange how your mind can do that no matter how far out you get. It's a curiosity. There's a story that Ram Dass talks about.

This lady called him because she was on Orange Sunshine, which was apparently back in the 60s. It was like the ultimate LSD. It was like this legendary acid. And she called him and said, you know, I've I've you know, I've gone. I've took too much Orange Sunshine. I'm going completely insane. I don't know what to do. And he's like, okay, well, can you put the person on who thought that they should call me and picked up the phone and dialed it? Because

that's who I want to talk to right now. Because it's like her, she was logical enough to know how to dial a phone and call and talk. She was making logical decisions. She had just decided to allow herself to be the crazy person for a second. You know, there's always, that's, that's what I'm saying is it's like, there's always the observer. There's always the part of yourself that's watching you go into whatever the experiences that you're going into, whether it's a psychedelic experience, whether it's a traumatic life experience, there's always the part of you that's just kind of watching.

It just depends on who you want to identify with at any given moment. You know when you get angry. It's so easier said than done though when you're talking about someone going on a bad trip. Because when you go on a bad trip you could feel utterly helpless. The crazy thing about psychedelics is that you have to release yourself to them. You must submit in order to take in the experience correctly, you've got to submit. Or you've got to take doses where you have no choice. Yes.

That's better. You said that was awesome. Yeah, no, it is. That was as honest as you could have been. Yes. That's the better thing because when you have to surrender, that involves this choice to die. But still, the bad trips occur. And the reason why the bad trips occur is because you're fighting it, right?

Well, yeah. I mean, bad trips can occur for a lot of different reasons. Yeah. Quite often, it's ego death. You're desperately trying to keep yourself from blinking out of existence. Your ego kicks in and does the exact same thing that happens when someone's dying. I used to... So it makes sense to you then that you would be feeling like you're going crazy and you'd be terrified.

Oh, no. Sure. Isn't the real problem that there's no one to guide people on these experiences? No really seasoned professionals that measure the dose in a clinical setting and like you know like could you imagine how much help people could get from that sort of an environment dude you've helped me i've talked to you on the phone when i'm way too high and you've inevitably made me feel better just from like talking to you because i'll call and i'll if i'm freaking out i don't remember the specific time but i know that i've called you and just started talking about some terrible idea i have about an like imminent war or something like some awful thing

i'm getting paranoid about and you're really good at being like that's not gonna happen you're fine that everything's fine and it just that. It's just one confident person being like, dude, everything's going to be really great. You don't have to worry about anything and you'll feel better. So yeah, you're right. There needs to be these people.

But that's not even someone who knows what they're doing. That's just a friend. You just called up a friend and it seemed normal. But if you were getting dosed up by a professional, because I think,

look, like I said, I do think that everything should be legal. I mean, I think there's horrible consequences to make crack and heroin illegal. And if you want to keep those illegal, I'm not going to fight you. I'm not going to fight you for meth. I don't think it should be easy to get meth.

And I think the people who make meth, for sure, you should fucking put them in a cage. Yes. Some asshole wants to get someone addicted to some horrible fucking chemical that's from cold syrup and shit and it just completely fucks your world up but when it comes to other stuff when it comes to like mushrooms or ayahuasca or all these these things have to be released to the public totally they have to sure if they don't get released to the public society suffers yeah society is more lost society is less introspective society is more prone to

patterns yeah it's like closing a library it's a type of library you're not like letting people into not just a library but perhaps a source of inspiration of knowledge of. It might even be another fucking life form. You know, somebody corrected me on Twitter the other day about something. We were talking about mushrooms being plants. And it was like, actually, a mushroom's not a plant. It's a fungus. It's a totally different life source. Isn't it its own kingdom?

It's its own kingdom. And not only that, they're closer to animals than they are to plants. Right. And, you know, when you talk about giant super organisms, the whole Pacific Northwest, apparently there's some giant mushroom colony in the Pacific Northwest. It's all considered, you know, it's under the mycelium or whatever the fuck it is. It's considered one large organism. And it's one of the biggest organisms on the planet. It's like a fucking sperm whale of mushrooms.

I think it's bigger than a sperm. I think it's huge. Isn't it miles or something? Something crazy like that. It is a life form. McKenna had this rap about mushrooms. Not only did he think that mushrooms were the catalyst for humans evolving from lower primates, but he also thought that mushrooms came from another planet

because the fact that spores could survive in a vacuum. And the structure of, what is it, 5P? It's called... Phosphoraloxy and dimethyltryptamine. Right, and he said something about the phosphorus in it. Yeah, in four positions, the only one like it on the planet. Right. There's nothing like that mushroom on the planet,

and yet it mimics human neurochemistry. I mean, and dimethyltryptamine is produced in the human body, and it's in the blood-brain barrier, and they think it's responsible for dreams and all that shit, and this stuff has it in it. Right. That is part of what it is, and if it really did come from another planet, imagine if all of our ideas about intelligent life are based on the ability to manipulate carbon, the ability to manipulate carbon matter. But what if a mushroom is a life form that has evolved so far that it doesn't need a form anymore.

It doesn't need to move. And the way it gets you is you eat it. And you can't kill it. It fucking flies through space on an asteroid. It gets knocked off of one planet and travels four billion light years to another one and lands there. And it starts up a new fucking colony of mushrooms. And they grow. And they grow where people are.

They don't grow in the middle of nowhere. They're not hard to find. They're on grass lawns. They're on lawns where people always are. They're always around people, man. There's people. There's mushrooms. That's a weird thing.

That's a weird thing. The idea that it's a life form. A life form from another planet that came in on an asteroid. And that's how. It's the theory of pansperia. That's how life is seeded throughout the universe what's the word pansperia that's cool yeah the idea is that the universe is seeded by asteroid impacts hitting planets and knocking off you know um amino acids and the building blocks of life and and somehow or another some sort of

chemical reaction with another planet and also com comets carrying water, and the water comes, and life is, you know, and it goes from one planet to the other. And that's the idea is we're seeded by asteroids. Yeah, I mean, that idea, I've heard McKenna's idea, and when you're tripping, it definitely does seem like you are getting some kind of transmission from something you're getting not even a transmission to me to me when i'm really gone it feels like i'm in something right i'm a part of it you know like i'm it's not a transmission i'm i'm in this i'm up my whatever your consciousness truly is outside of cells and fingernails. Whenever your inner consciousness is, this thing took me to another place.

And so the physical body that I exist and move around, it literally didn't exist. And I was inside this other place. It's an experience that's not like a transmission. It's almost more like a chemical gateway feeling. And we talked about this before the podcast that it could just be your senses fucking with you when you're whacked out on drugs it could be that your senses

everybody's senses work the same way you take this whacked out drug and everybody gets a reaction the same way but I don't think it is and even if it is it's more fun to think that it's not and there's no evidence to prove otherwise so I'm going to stick with it because it's more empowering, it's more fascinating i like to believe in magic you know

i don't like to believe in too much magic but i like to believe that mushrooms are magic i like to believe that dmt is magic i like to believe that weed is magic i really believe weed is magic it sounds stupid but listen i'm talking about it in a silly utilitarian way in a way that's functional and easy to use without delving too deeply into what the weed is. When I smoke weed, all of a sudden I get ideas. I smoke weed and all of a sudden I have ideas. What is that? If that's not magic, I don't know what the fuck is.

Things come to you from the burning of a plant. You burn a plant, you take in its essence. Wisdom. Yeah. Dr. Introspective thoughts, start worrying about your own behavior, studying yourself, looking at the world differently, thinking about clouds, how strange clouds are, man. They're just floating above us, there's moisture in them. Right. Dr. Where's that coming from, man? Well, you're whacked out, man. You're killing

your brain cells, man. That's your brain cells dying. That's the first from, man? Well, you're whacked out, man. You're killing your brain cells, man. That's your brain cells dying. That's the first sign your brain cells are dying is you start having brilliant thoughts. You remember that? This is your brain on drugs. With the egg. I would have loved at any point in time to get high and debate that guy.

The war on drugs. The guy who did that commercial. The VO guy. The no-nonsense guy. Yeah. See this? This is your brain. This is your brain on This is your brain.

Bill Hicks had a great bit about it. Well, every comic at the time had a great bit about that. But Bill Hicks had a particularly brilliant one about that, about how preposterous it was. You remember those commercials that came on after 9-11 where a guy was a no-nonsense guy in a steakhouse with a suit on eating a salad? And his friend was like the silly man and his friend were like man you can't tell me that you know if i smoke pot i'm supporting terrorism he goes yes i

can and he's eating eating the lettuce you know why because it's true that's the tomorrow show like the no-nonsense man who's with his suit on i'm eating a salad i'll tell you right now mister the drugs that you support, terrorism, they're selling marijuana. Fuck, man. They're the most retarded. There's no logic to them. They appeal to the weakest of emotions.

The desire to be this fat douchebag eating a steak salad, you know, with a suit on and a red... I'm a no-nonsense man. Bob's always working. That's right. He's a disciplined businessman. Because man. Bob's always working. That's right. He's a disciplined businessman. Because it's true.

He's not taking any nonsense. You know what's fucking true? You know what else is a no-nonsense man? That fucking pig in New York who maced those women. He netted. Did you see that shit? That fucking beefy piece of shit. There's like these two, apparently out there there's these two uh distinctions in

the police they're and they're calling uh the white collar police and the blue collar police the guys in the blue suits are apparently just being police and they're cool but they're these violent kind of like uh thug pigs out there who have been like grabbing people who aren't doing anything and i saw the video of the girls getting maced did you see that video yeah it looks like does the girl try to pull down the barrier and then he just maces her is that what happened i no no no i watched it a bunch of times and i didn't see her do that and if she did do that even then i don't think it's you can't you can't mace but he didn't just mace her he maced it a mace maced it he maced a bunch of them for no reason for no

reason yeah and then he's kind of like skittered off he did like he came in did it and then tried to sneak away they got a picture of the son of a bitch it's on you can look at what's the name of that thing it's occupy wall street is that what it's called yeah on that site occupy wall street.org i think there's a picture of the guy they got a picture of him and they're trying to find him because they've got lawyers who are volunteering to help the people get out of jail and help the people who like they've already arrested a hundred people and what are they doing they're protesting what see that's they're protesting the ideas they're protesting the the fact that one percent of the

people on the planet control the resources and they're going to wall street because that's a that seems to be like the locus of all this greed. There's great video. There's video of these really rich people sitting out on a balcony drinking champagne and toasting the protesters, all these super richy riches out there just watching them. Fucking with them? Yeah, kind of. Really?

Yeah. Wow. You know, like they're a novelty. It's like, look. Oh, look at the protesters. This is what I keep hearing I keep hearing that no one's covering this In the mainstream news

I keep hearing that, but then I'm looking at Bloomberg.com And it's on there, it's on Business Insider I think they've started covering it Like they have to Because people are starting to get arrested Yeah, that's it But I don't know the real number of people That are out there right now.

I would love to know that. This is fascinating. This is a new movement. Yep. And it's happening right now. I mean, if you're in New York, you could go down there right now and bring them a sandwich. Because they've got to be hungry, man. A lot of these kids, they've been out there for eight days.

Nearly 100 people have been arrested for protesting in and around Wall Street during what some are calling the Arab Spring of the United States. Outraged. Oh, wow. That's scary. I know. You hear that? You think about what's going on in these Arab countries. Outraged over the way that the political and financial worlds are managed.

Protesters calling themselves the 99% have gathered to share their grievances with the top 1% of Americaica and demand change well i don't understand why it's illegal to protest i thought protesting was always legal is it you're you have to get a permit to protest and these people don't have permits is that what it is uh i think that they they did get per i don't know i'm sure i wouldn't be surprised if there was like they didn't have a permit it seems gross that you should need to get permission to protest it seems like there should be some sort of was like, they didn't have a permit. It seems gross that you should need to get permission to protest. It seems like there should be some sort of a right. But I don't know if you should be able to do it on someone's property. Like if you're blocking them.

Blocking traffic? Yeah, that shit's annoying. I mean, yeah, but it does seem to go counter to the idea of a protest, which is like, can I have your permission to protest? You're just supposed to protest. Yeah, I mean, look, it's something. I support them. They're doing something. They're out there beating the drum.

They're letting everybody know, hey, we are pissed off. But to say that it's like an Arab Spring in the United States, that's fascinating. Well, people are sick. I mean, it's like people, this whole thing of like 1% of the fucking population having all this shit. It's like at some point that can't work anymore. Like if you're on, let's imagine we're on an island. And there's like 10 people on the island. And one person on the island has control of all the bananas.

It's like, you've got to share the bananas, man. You've got to pass the bananas around. I don't care how you got them. Right. And the idea is that, look, at the end of the day, you're using up the Earth's resources. Especially if you're talking like some big, gigantic corporation. You're using up a gigantic chunk of the Earth's resources, which really, in all fairness, should be distributed equally amongst all the people on the planet.

Yeah, we just don't have the technology yet to do it. And also a lot of the people who the resources would get distributed to are fucking idiots. So that is a real problem because a lot of people are not because our education system is crap so people have been being like brought up through a really crappy education system not all schools are terrible but a lot of them that these kids they have way too many kids how are you going to teach a classroom of 60 fucking kids many of them in like who are living in poverty and their parents are drug addicts. How are you going to do that?

You'd have to be Superman to pull that off. So it's like you're dealing with people who haven't been educated and people who are hopeless. And so the real question is, let's imagine that all the 1% that these people are protesting, suddenly we're like, you know what? We're going to distribute our wealth. How do you do that? How would you even distribute our wealth. How do you do that? How would you even do it anyway? How do you solve the problem?

I don't know, but they're saying we have to do something. That's what they're saying. They're right. They're right. The system is completely fucked up. It doesn't work. It doesn't make sense. The whole idea of a financial system, the whole idea of when you start talking about

banks and economics and numbers and manipulating things Yeah, and then things get so weird when you talk about like interest rates and they talk about Taxes and you talk about the distribution of the money. Where's the tax money going? Where's yeah when you you break all these numbers down then you realize that these numbers only represent numbers You know, they don't represent a fucking bag of gold somewhere. Nope. They don't represent anything of like real value. It's like numbers. So then when someone has you know fucking

18 billion dollars or something crazy and then you examine them and you go what did you do? Well I moved numbers. I moved numbers around and I made billions of dollars moving all these numbers and buying and selling numbers and agreeing and and Graham Hancock's here cool

powerful alright folks that's the end of this one and we'll be right back in about 15 minutes because he's gonna eat some food but thank you and sorry back