The Joe Rogan Experience - #1431 - Owen Smith

Episode Date: February 25, 2020

Owen Smith is a comedian, writer, actor and television producer. https://textowen.com/

It is? Yeah. Three, two, one, boom, and we're live. Oh, yeah. We're talking about yoga and Russell Simmons. Yeah. Russell Simmons, he moved to Bali because he's worried about them extraditing him? I don't know if he's worried, but this is all conjecture.

This is what I've heard. But I just bought him up because he had a yoga studio here. Did he? Yeah. And he gave me a month free. A month free high-end yoga thing. thing like you just show up in your clothes they give you the mat towels real blocks everything and everybody was awesome and I went every day for a month and did yoga next to Russell Simmons Wow and he was like amazing amazing. And I was like really feeling it.

I felt great. And then all this stuff happened. It's so easy to slide. Oh, man. It's so easy to slide away. Yeah, man. I love that guy. I have a funny story.

What do you think is more important in stand-up? To be polished or to be raw? There's no more important thing they're they're both very important but joey diaz is not polished at all and he's the funniest guy that i've ever seen yeah no one's ever made me laugh harder he's not polished he's raw as fuck but raw alone is not good because some guys like jessel neck is very polished and he's very funny. You're very polished. You're very funny. Yes.

There's no one thing. You know? It's like comedy is an art. It's an art, right? It's an expression of who you are. If you're a polished person and you try to come off raw, it's going to look corny. So I bought that up because I am, I don't know, young 20s. Def Jam is having auditions.

It just moved from New York to L.A. Beverly Hills was where they're taping, which was ironic in itself. But I was raw. You remember those when you go, hit it, DJ, and you have music cue like this? So I auditioned, and Bushwick Bill was one of the judges. It was like I auditioned at All Jokes Aside in Chicago, and I got picked. I was one of the people to get picked to tape Def Jam. First time I was ever flown out anywhere.

First time I ever came to – was flown to Los Angeles. I had been here before. Stayed at the Hotel Sofitel. Whoa. But what happened is I got picked. I was flown to Los Angeles. I had been here before. Stayed at the Hotel Sofitel. Whoa. But what happened is I got picked. I was raw. About three months went by. I went on a tour of North Dakota, South Dakota, Minneapolis,

where none of those Def Jam jokes worked. So I started getting polished a little bit. Right. So when I went to take Def Jam, I did it and I got, I think seven applause breaks, but I didn't get the standing ovation. And I remember when I got off stage,

one comedian said, way to keep them seated. And Russell walked right past me. Like I just wanted him to see me so i knew i wasn't going to air right and i got that was wait a minute you got seven applause seven applause breaks it wouldn't air well i got a note i got i got my first rejection letter saying thank you so much but you're you won't be airing they aired they had rod man and they aired two other people and then so i felt like shit you know i mean like i was like damn am i

black enough like the whole black thing like damn i'm not a part of def jam i want to be touring i make those audiences laugh but what i auditioned with it was straight from maryland like straight just raw like all bravado i wasn't talking anything. And I went to these other cities and it was kind of like, I was kind of like finding my style. Right. How many years have you been doing it at the time? I was probably doing, I started at 19,

but I, you know, that's, that's the college start. And then you, but I think I started doing the full time at 22 and I was probably 26. So maybe four years arrogant though. Like, you know, if I was your feature act, four years uh arrogant though like you know if I was

your feature act I I knew I always kept a time clock sometimes I would go long but I would but I was I was very proud of like if they said do 12 I would do 12 you know I mean that kind of thing and I was I was getting standing ovations but I wasn't talking about nothing. And then I started, like, doing these other states. And I was like, okay, fine. Don't get it. So my objection, I really needed Russell Simmons to like me. Like, you know what I mean? He meant so much to the culture and to, and he just, when he just didn't see me, I just was like, damn, years go by.

And the pain of it, like, diminishes, but it's still kind of in there. But, you know, it's like a Marvel villain. Like, you're like, I gotta. Yeah, I must. But it kind of. So then Russell has another show. And I didn't even think I was going to get picked. My only goal was just to make him laugh because he was at the audition.

It was in New York. I was living in New York. He was there and Stan Latham was there. And this is years later. I found out. I knew who I was. I knew what I was coming to say. I didn't know if it was going to match their show.

And what I'm saying is, like, Def Jam prided itself on raw, like being raw. You know what I mean? And, like, you know, a new voice. So I didn't fit, like, what they were selling, you know what I mean? And like, you know, a new voice. And then, so I didn't fit like what they were selling, you know? So then when I saw Russell and Stan, I do my act. I see Russell grab his stomach and go over it. So I'm good.

If I get the show, I get it. If I don't get it, I'm good. I see Stan Latham go. I see them do the whisper. I literally don't care if I get the show. I did what I set out to do. Right. So all the other comics are staying back to schmooze and, hey, man. Like, I left.

I left. I ended up getting the show. And this is the show now when Russell was sitting in the audience and there are comics sitting up there. And I'm doing my act. And I was talking about HBO Hung, that show about white dude with a big dick for real. That's what we doing. That's where we at now. And I did like the stereotype game and all this stuff.

And I did one joke. And I remember Russell got up and gave me a pound in the middle of my set. It was like a slow motion. You could see all the comics. And I was like, so it was like the full circle of 24 year old me yeah beat it and then 32 34 year old me maybe russell's like yo my man and then i would go uh you know and i was doing yoga with him for a little bit but we we never hung post it was just like you know it was just like i don't know it was just like, I don't know.

It was just like a full circle moment. Did he call you and say, I'm giving you this month free yoga? Was it a part of doing the show? How did that happen? No, he used to be at All Deaf. He had All Deaf Digital. So he moved here. And I think I went there to pitch him something.

He was like, yo, nigga, you do yoga? You do yoga? You know, he was like, you for coming here? And he just gave me a month free. And I was like, yo, nigga, you do yoga? You do yoga? You know, he was like, you feel good? And he just gave me a month free. And I was like, I'm going to take it. And so every morning I would wake up and drive. And I didn't know I was going to be in his class. Like, Usher Raymond would be in there.

He was flexible as hell. Really? Incredible. Yeah, like, all these people would be in there. And I really started getting into it. Usher can fight. Really? Have you ever seen him train? No.

Usher has videos online of him training at black house and he's legit like he's a legit skilled fighter i believe it like he's got like real good hands he can throw kicks everything yeah he is probably the kobe of r&b really i feel like he outworks everybody you know when i saw him in yoga class, I was like, who else is doing this? In your field, you know what I mean? I don't know. Yoga is something you don't get any credit for doing. No.

It's fucking hard as shit, but it seems like no big deal. If you say, I ran seven miles today, people are like, whoa. Yeah, that's impressive. You say, I did yoga today. They're like, bitch ass. What you doing? I was stretching with some old ladies. But it's real.

I felt so good when I was doing it. And I don't think I didn't tell anybody I was doing it. You know what I mean? Like my wife knew I was going. Yeah. But it's a personal thing. It's like golf, right? It's a personal.

It's just you against your body and russ you give me tips you know it's about breathing in difficult situations he would always say that i never forgot that you know it is about breathing yeah yeah it's about breathing that's what life is like life is going to give you difficult situations and if you don't remember to breathe fur you're fucked that's kind of of like the whole premise of it. Well, I feel like we operate on a scale. And the least difficulty you have in your life, the more difficult it is to encounter real adversity. So when you give yourself voluntary difficulty.

So I volunteer to work out hard. I volunteer to do jujitsu. I volunteer to do yoga. I i volunteer to do yoga i've pushed myself to do these things when actual real life difficulties come along like they're hard but there's never a time in life where it's as hard as a 90 minute yoga class wow you're sweating like crazy you barely can stand up you're trying your feet are cramping Your legs are tramping Pouring sweat Pouring down on the mats I mean it's temporary

You know it's going to end in 40-50 seconds Whatever the pose is But to just hang in there Is so hard That I think it prepares you for other things Other than the loss of a loved one That's impossible to prepare yourself for. But just bullshit stress.

Just regular life bullshit stress. Yoga class makes that stuff look like nonsense. If you're doing yoga on a regular basis. Yeah, well, it was something. I'm consistently inconsistent. You know what I mean? But I'll go through a phase. So before the Russell thing, I went to a hot Bikram class.

Yeah, that's what I do. So I went to a hot bickroom yeah that's what i do so i went to a hot bickroom and this is when i was single so i was basically just following the asses like i'm going to there and yeah i remember it was a big room and everything was chilling you know i i literally had never done this at all i was literally literally just, you know, I don't know why. I don't know why. And I just remember they closed all the windows and they stopped the fans and it started getting really hot. And I was doing the poses and I was shaking. And like you said, sweating profusely.

And the only thing I knew was it was supposed to be a place of no judgment. They kept going. It's your journey. It's yoga practice. No judgment. The lady had the little mic thing. And she came over to me and she covered it. And she whispered to me, are you all right?

I was like, I'm feeling judged. I'm like, I'm really feeling judged right now. That's how awful I must have looked. I couldn't. And so I didn't really go back after that. My ego was bruised a little bit. And so I didn't really go back after that. My ego was bruised a little bit. And so I would do it at home sometimes. Preparing to go back?

Trying to practice yoga, son, so I could not get judged. And when I left, like she was like, the teacher was like on the cover of the magazine in front. I was like, damn, like she. Legit. Like, yeah. And so, but how she did it was so funny. She was like, are you all right i was like trying to like trying to show off for these girls man and it was terrible it's

fucking hard man and the reason why they ask you if you are right because sometimes people are not all right yeah like i've seen people almost black out where they have to lay down oh yeah because it's 105 degrees in there and if you're not used to that kind of exercise in that kind of temperature if you have you know a per if you're one of those people that just that stuff gets to you and you can handle it yeah you can legitimately pass out they don't need that i remember did you remember bally's gym yeah i remember yeah i used to live on on uh there's a bally's at the bottom of the hill And I belonged to bally's And I would go

You know I went through a period I'm going when it opens And so I went I think it opened at 6 maybe Damn you were a 6 o'clock in the morning guy I did that for a minute Get there It's a line I said

How come we can't go in And this lady This lady's like Somebody's dead in the pool It was a dead body like Floating in the bally's Whoa a dead body like floating in the valleys. Whoa. And then I never forget this other lady goes,

at least he got out his contract. Like not even gave him a second. No moment of silence. Because valleys was notorious for not letting you out. Yeah. At least he got out his contract. And then everybody still waited. Well, 24 Hour Fitness

is the weirdest one. They'll let you sign up for like 10 years for like a dollar a week. Hilarious. They don't give a fuck. They know you're not coming. Right.

They're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll help you with your goals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're gonna get fit. You're gonna get jacked. We're gonna get ripped like Bobby over here.

Look at Bobby. Bobby shows up every day. And you're like, wow, I'm gonna be like Bobby. And then you just start eating chips. Yeah. Drinking Bobby. Bobby shows up every day. And you're like, wow, I'm going to be like Bobby. And then you just start eating chips, drinking soda, never show up. I wonder, like, what are the percentage? I wonder if we could find this. What are the percentages of members in 24-Hour Fitness that actually go on a regular basis?

I bet. That's a great hustle. They wouldn't share that. They wouldn't share it. No way. You're probably right. Yeah. No way.

Because then people would go, why am I signing up for that? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great hustle, man. I did.. They wouldn't share it. No way. You're probably right. Yeah. No way. Because then people would go, why am I signing up for that? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great hustle, man. I had a 24-hour fitness for a moment, and then I would go, and it would be so crowded, I would just go home. Sometimes it's real crowded. Yeah.

I'm like, I can't even do anything. Then some of them, you couldn't use all of them, too. You'd show up and, oh, you don't have that membership. What are you talking about? Equinox is like that, too. I did Equinox for a second. This is a 24 hour club sport. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah. I did Equinox for a second.

I got to play basketball with Magic. Really? Yeah. He was in there working out every morning. Wow. This one I was on Arsenio, too. So you just play a pickup game with people? No, I didn't. He would shoot around, and I just kind of made myself available on the court. I'm just there.

When the ball went through the rim, I went and got the rebound. I gave it to him, and he shot another one. I got the rebound. I go, I always wanted the rebound for you. And then I gave him a pass, and he did the classic hook, and he goes, and now you got an assist. That's hilarious. Because a lot of basketball players would come up there and i would look at him like man i'm glad i

couldn't like magic is huge man like yeah have you seen him in person no he's huge like and i'm six five so but his back is is like i like i i had hoop dreams until I played against Grand Hill in high school. Grand Hill is 6'9", and it was a Christmas tournament. My mom was there and my girlfriend at the time. Shout out to—well, I'm married now. But anyway, my girlfriend at the time was there. And I had a rah-rah section. We were the home team, and Grant Hill comes in, and my coach had me check him.

And I never – I guarantee you he won't remember this. But it's this thing called a crossover, right? Most people, if you cross over, I'm still in front of you. Grant was so long when he did put the ball from this hand to this hand, I had to literally slide two steps. And then when he went back, I had to slide back two steps. And when he went up here, there was no way I could get up there. And so I told my girlfriend, yo, go home.

Like, y'all don't need to see this. He scored like 60 points. He was shooting from half court. Like, he just looked at us like i was like i'm a do well in school that's a fascinating thing when you see someone who's a world-class athlete the beginning of their journey you know this is in high school high school yeah beginning of their journey yeah right because he's really just getting becoming a man yeah he's not even really a man yet.

Nope. But you see already, like they have that jump. I'm sure Jordan was like that. I'm sure. Wasn't Jordan like didn't make his high school team? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Who cut him?

God. Yeah. You know that coach had to, when he went home that night, had to talk to his wife. Like, I think I made a terrible mistake. But he probably didn't realize it because at the time Jordan, probably well jordan is not the biggest guy in the world either right how tall is he is he six four six six six six six but compared to some of those giants like when they're standing a shack is the most ridiculous human being i've ever met incredibly his hands are as big as this table yes they just reach out and just swallow your arm yeah he's so big

he lives in my neighborhood a word yeah I did a commercial with him it never aired we did like a series of spots and he was like a big kid man he was so fun he's a fun guy I did Fear Factor with him you did

he did a whole episode with me oh man where he came in because we did it in Orlando and so he was a fan so he brought his whole family down he had a bus

he brought a tour bus to hang out in he's so fun and then he you know he did the thing three two one go and i'm standing next to him like a little six-year-old with my dad it's hilarious yeah but yeah there's there's people that are just they're different man they're just different level athletes and i bet jordan as good as he was, you know, it probably, he needed that rejection to turn that burner on.

Yeah. To make him Jordan. Yeah, to make him focus. Yeah. Yeah. And that's always going to be a story, that he was cut from his high school basketball team. Yeah, I think he brought it up in his Hall of Fame speech. I think so, too.

Yeah, I love that. The Hall of Fame speech when he kept shitting on all the different writers. He remembered all of them. All of them. Like, bro, you're Michael Jordan. Why are you even bringing these guys up? Nobody even cares Wouldn't let it go

But that's why he's so great Yeah That burning fire They would say that if you beat him at pool He would hate you for two weeks Until he'd play you again Amazing He used to have a pool tournament

That he would do in Chicago Every year And it was for charity So he'd have all these celebrities come And play pool with him But you know He wasn't a good pool player Right

He was like It was okay But there's like real pool players out there They'll fuck you know, he wasn't a good pool player. He was like, it was okay. But there's like real pool players out there. They'll fuck you up. Tear your shit up, man. And if he got beat, he would be furious, apparently. Just couldn't handle it. But that's the case with everyone who's great at something.

They don't want to lose that shit. They don't want to lose that backgammon, Parcheesi. Yeah. You know. Is that healthy at a certain point? No! It's like, yo, Mike, turn that off, man. It's so unhealthy.

Yeah. It's so unhealthy, but that's what makes them great. It's like there's a pro and a con to everything. I have this saying that I've always said that greatness and madness are next-door neighbors, and they borrow each other's sugar. You can't be great unless you're a little crazy. And you can't be the best ever unless you're out of your fucking mind and jordan's clear when you see him in that that that uh speech when he's talking about the hall of fame when he's talking about getting inducted

and all the people that are wrong all the people that he's angry still i mean he's angry still. I mean, he's a crazy person. This is one of your great highlights as recognized the greatest basketball player of all time. Think about how many people have played basketball. Millions of people all over this country and millions of people around the world. There's one guy. If everybody says, who's the greatest basketball player?

It's Michael motherfucking Jordan, right? I mean, you've got your other people. You've got your dissenters who say, i think lebron is this theory i have a theory about that i have a theory about that so here's my thing i feel like that's the wrong narrative i feel like so here's my friend and i we were talking about what is greatness, right? Greatness is clearly the numbers and accolades and the wins. But greatness is also being able to overcome great difficulty and still perform. And so adding that into the formula, I feel like out of everyone that's a part of the conversation, LeBron is the only one who never met his dad.

Like Jordan knew his dad. Kobe, rest in peace, his dad played in the NBA. Magic knew his dad. Kareem knew his dad. It's a thing, you know. LeBron, tallest dude in in akron walking around every day you see another tall dude he had to be like dad you know what i mean like just mentally right like who taught him the game like jordan had these great teachers and all that so i feel like

the question should be michael jordan is clearly the greatest of all time with two parents. But with one parent, LeBron is the greatest and Kevin Durant is like coming up. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Just because it's different starting lines. But there's so many different variables that take place in your life from birth to death to just isolate one factor, like not having a father. To just isolate one factor, like not having a father. Well, but I mean, it's like all of Jordan talked about when he got cut from his team, his dad was the one who pushed him. He was his greatest motivator. He had that.

Who was doing that for LeBron? Who taught him the game? Jordan went to NC State where Dean Smith was one of the greatest. Everyone talks about Jordan's fundamentals. Where did LeBron learn this from? Who was teaching him this stuff? So it's just a different space. And I relate to LeBron

because I was raised by a single mom. So I recognize myself more in him than in jordan it's a very you know nuanced uh thing but i feel like when people go who's the greatest i'm like man i do have two parents like yeah of course yeah that's funny it's like if you but what about motivation the thing about having two parents versus one is there's something about having one parent that gives you this insane motivation to drive, this drive to succeed. That's a factor in a lot of people. There was a factor in me. Yeah.

Growing up because I didn't grow up with my dad. Yeah. Not knowing my dad. I talked to my dad since I was seven years old. Okay. So that and the fact that I knew him up until I was six and then didn't talk to him for the rest of my life. Yeah. That fucked with me.

Yeah. And there's a part of that. There's a part of that that would make you like, I'll show you motherfuckers. Like, you guys don't think I'm worth anything? I'll show you. Yeah. Like, there's something that, like, Mike Tyson had that. Like, a lot of people had that.

A lot of great athletes had terrible upbringings, and it's almost a positive factor. You know, you could say that Jordan's dad was a positive factor, and that can work as well. But also sometimes it can be a positive factor to be ignored. Having a difficult childhood can actually be a positive factor. Oh, definitely. I mean, look, LeBron's a billionaire.

Clearly he was a positive factor. It worked out. I'm just i'm definitely it worked out i'm just saying in the debate i know what you're saying who's the greatest yeah i know what you're saying i mean but i'm saying it could there's two different ways that could go yeah but it's also like they're they're playing in different eras that's a that's a like did you see the tyson fury deontay wilder fight i saw clips holy oh my gosh were you there no no i watched it at home holy shit how big is fury though six seven almost no six nine deontay six seven fury six nine six nine 270 pounds and he just figured he said he figured out in the first fight that Deontay, in the 12th round, he started backing Deontay up. Deontay can't fight backing up.

Because Deontay is a guy who pushes forward, and he's got this ridiculous power. And everybody's scared of his power, so everybody's moving all the time. And Fury realized in the 12th round, after Deontay knocked him down, almost knocked him out, he got up and started chasing Deontay, and Deontay fought sloppy. He said he looked awkward. He said his footwork didn't look so good. Technique. Yeah.

Well, Deontay's known as being this guy who's got an eraser. His right hand's like an eraser. All the mistakes. Teddy Atlas put it this way. All the mistakes of the previous rounds all get erased with one punch. Blah! He just shuts people's lights out. And he has that confidence that he has that eraser power.

But with Tyson Fury, I realized, look, Tyson doesn't fight that way. Tyson Fury fights on his toes. He sticks and moves. He does a lot of head movement and a lot of shucking and jiving.

It makes it very difficult for you to figure out what he's doing. Is he going here? Is he going there? Is he moving? Is he jabbing? He'll come at you like this

with two, three fake jabs, then a jab at at a right hand he'll throw a right hand to the body then he'll throw a left uppercut he'll step to the side of you he'll throw a right hand he'll move out of the way he'll pop you with a jab as he's moving away he's like a very technical like really sophisticated boxer if you look at the movement that he does for someone as big as him it's really kind of crazy and it's not that he couldn't step forward and smash people knock people out it's just he knows the sweet science yes you know he knows the sweet science but then he realized for this fight he had to fight a different way to to shock deontay he had to come at deontay full blast get in his face from the

from the jump and that's exactly what he did. He also changed trainers, and he went with Sugar Hill, who's a Kronk trainer. Kronk is where Tommy Hearns came from, you know, Gerald McClellan, some of the great knockout artists of the past. And Kronk Jim from Emanuel Stewart was known as being a very offensive style of fighting. They have heavy jabs. They don't touch you with a jab. They're smashing with a jab. Big power in the right hand.

Like, Cronk was an attacking, aggressive style. Like, they were all known. Like, they would wear those Cronk shorts, those yellow golden shorts. You saw a guy with Cronk shorts on. That motherfucker came to kill you. They fought in the gym. Emanuel Stewart would turn the heat up to 100 degrees so when they were doing they were doing like hot yoga in in the fucking cronk gym because he wanted to build up endurance in these guys so when you would go into the cronk gym in detroit it was hot as fuck like really hot

and that's how he forced everybody to train under extreme duress he was a amazing amazing trainer he's the guy who rejuvenated vladimir klitschko when vladimir klitschko was falling apart because he had gotten KO'd a few times he his style just he didn't have like an american style he had this like sort of straight-up European style and Emanuel Stewart just shifted his style and and just made him concentrate on utilizing that long reach and the big power that long jab so when Tyson Fury went with a cronk trainer for this like he was dead serious he was going for seek and destroy he told everybody that's what he's gonna do too but nobody

believed him everybody thought it was just a hustle. Like him saying, I'm going to knock out Deontay Wilder. I'm going to come after him. I'm going to knock him out in two rounds. Everybody's like, you're out of your fucking mind. Even Deontay was like, you don't believe a word you're saying. You're just talking. You're not going to try to knock me out.

That's exactly what he did. He figured out the puzzle. He figured out the puzzle. In the 12th round of the first fight, he just realized when he had him backing up, he's like, oh, this guy stumbles on his feet. He gets all awkward and you got him backing up. Yeah. So he just stuck to him like glue. He took that L.

That's what I wanted to talk to you about. I want to start fighting, man. No, no. My son needs to know. No, no, no. I want to talk to you about, first I want to thank you because you've been very kind about just promoting my stand-up on this platform. Oh, you're welcome, dude. I'm a huge fan.

Thank you, man. You don't make any sense to me. I know. You are one of the best comics in the world. And the fact that people don't know who you are, you should be filling arenas. So this is what i'm doing i made something and i want to give it to your viewers so they can watch it and judge for themselves if they just go to text owen.com text owen.com owen.com i'll send you some never before seen stand-up of mine if you if you if you fuck with

it then we see what happens i'll check back with you a little bit later oh there we go yeah you go to that you're doing uh the improv with me wednesday right i am show this wednesday late show but uh yeah come hit me with that i'll text you back and then after this podcast see how many people whatever and i'm gonna send you some never before seen stand-up if you haven't seen me not with me and um dude it's gonna break your phone hey, man, that's my prayer. You know what I mean? Because you don't understand your kind words, how it's affected my life in a great way. I felt like Vladimir Klitschko, basically, as far as comedy is concerned. And then when you were like, dude, you're shit. And I'm like, for real?

Well, it doesn't make sense to me i know great comics you know most comics when they get to your your level they're famous they're famous for being really great comics well i see you on stage like i was watching the last time we worked together and i forget who i was standing in the back of the room talking to but i was like this doesn't even make any sense i mean he's so good he should be headlining arenas like oh yeah it's true it's like your comedy is so polished and so and i was talking to tony about it i was uh tony hinchcliffe we're in the back watching once i was like look how economy of words like you use just the right amount of words like you have to fill in the blank you make make people fill in the blank sometimes, and it makes things even funnier. Like, that's all black belt shit, man.

I love it. You just spent so much time writing, you know, and writing for sitcoms and writing for movies. And I know it's been very lucrative for you, and it's great. And, you know, you're a great writer. There's no question about it. But you're a world-class stand-up. Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, everybody you thank you everybody true go to text only.com because i'm serious man because it's like you know how the business changed and you know i thought that if you just

had quality work that you know it would and then it's it's it's just changed to something that i the tv shit all went away it all went away and so so we'll see we'll see I'm putting myself out there well you gotta get a special that's all it's gonna take for you you know

Amazon or someone Netflix someone's gonna step up yeah that would be great you know and so we'll see but I just wanted I wanted to thank you

and my pleasure we'll see what happens hopefully yeah break my phone y'all I wanna experience that. Because Comedy Central is great. I owe them a debt of gratitude.

They put my special out in 2014 and 2009. But the reality is it's just not the same anymore. People aren't watching it like they used to watch it. Yeah, they lost the public trust somewhere. Yeah, well, they put out a lot of bullshit shows. Yeah. They're micromanaging things. There's a lot they put out a lot of bullshit shows. Yeah. You know? Yeah. They're micromanaging things. There's a lot of people that are scared of anything controversial.

Yeah. Somebody told me they fired a lot of people over there, but you know, you hear that. We'll see. We'll see what's happening next. Listen, they passed on Kyle Dunnigan's show. Kyle Dunnigan. So funny. That fucking shit that he does with FaceSwap is the funniest shit on Instagram.

He is the funniest man on Instagram. There's a lot of funny shit on instagram but his shit clear like makes me cry i cry sometimes watching this stuff yeah he's so talented he's a talented creative guy and the fact that they didn't pick that show up but i knew they were fucking it up already because he showed me this one clip it was caitlin you know he does everything with face swaps, right? He had Caitlyn Jenner on top of Donald Trump, fucking Donald Trump. And it was hilarious, man. He shows it to me in the back room of the main room. I'm crying.

Tears are coming down my eyes. We're laughing so hard. He goes, and get this, Comedy Central passed on that. I go, what? I know. He said, we can't do that one. They said, we can't do that one. It's too controversial.

I go, controversial? That's what you do. Right. Everything't do that one. They said, we can't do that one. It's too controversial. I go, controversial? That's what you do. Right. Everything you do is controversial. But it's so obvious that it's fake. It's funny because it's fake. It's like South Park. Like, you fucking dummies.

What is your most successful show? South Park. What does that show do? They don't give a fuck. They go all out. South Park has no boundaries. And it's one of the reasons why it's the greatest comedy show ever. Yo, man, that's the thing about creating and depending on invisible people to prove it or get it.

Because you don't know where the no's coming from. Like what you just said is an impassioned argument. If you could sit down with the decision maker and go and just talk about it. Yes. Maybe his show would have gone, but you don't know who anybody is. You write it. You know, you just go, this is good. It's so hard because there's the people that are watching it and then judging whether or not they're going to put it on television.

First of all, they're not creative people. If they were, they would be doing what you're doing. They're executives. And they think they're smart. They think they understand comedy, and they also don't want to get fired, and they also don't want to get in trouble, and they also want to sell ads.

There's so much fuckery going on. Yeah, you know what I wish I knew? I wish I knew what their, they call it mandates, like what their mandates are or what they're dealing with, just so that because you get excited about something and you push and you go this is what i want to do and it is sometimes you go oh man i don't think they're considering the actual audience sometimes so i don't but i you know i don't know what they're considering you know and it can drive

you crazy it can drive you crazy they're also seriously worried about woke culture they want to make sure like i've i've had friends they want to pitch things they're like where's the diversity you know you know we need a trans biracial woman in this we needed this we needed that like hey just concentrate on making it good make it great just make it good you know the i think your diversity should be everybody who's good. Find people who are good. Don't exclude them because they're gay or trans or whatever. But don't include them because they are if they're not talented.

Because that's not good. You just need good. It would be nice if it was easy for all those people of all different backgrounds to get up in stand-up comedy clubs and then get their career going. And I don't know any situation. I mean, I'm so far removed from open mics, it's hard for me to even talk about it anymore. We should do one. We should. We should do one.

We should. Just new shit. Let's film it. Only do new shit. Hey, whatever happened to that thing we did with the notebooks? That was hilarious. I couldn't believe I found those. Dude, it was great.

It was great. was i was thinking of giving that to people when they text on.com so i shot six edited four and took it around town a lot of people didn't get it a lot of no's the the people who loved it the most was all things comedy and they were like we want to you know this out. But I was partnered with somebody at the time. I had a manager at the time that they didn't connect with. So it kind of went away. And my wife,

we were just talking about this. Like this should be on TV. Like it's such a clean, simple, fun idea. Well, it should be on YouTube. It should be.

Yeah. That was my initial plan. My initial plan was to put it on YouTube. Why don't you put it on YouTube now? I don't know I just Does somebody else own it? No me

It's all me It's all me All my IP Alright I'll put it on YouTube Will you like Support it or tag it Or something I don't know how that stuff works

I'll do all that shit You're like a genius back there Like why is he You understand man I'm so afraid of I'm not afraid of no. I just got to get the first gut punch and then I'll keep going. You understand what I'm saying?

What do you mean? Like, something weird happened, man. My younger self, everything people are doing on Instagram, I did when I was 18, 19, 20. Then you get a little bit older, you're like, what's this tape? What's going on? But when I... That's how I feel about TikTok. Yes.

So, there this idea. That's how I feel about TikTok. Yes. So when this idea came to me, I thought, I can't think of the, I think his name is Chase Jarvis. I was looking at Chase Jarvis. I never heard of this guy, but I used to watch his, his interviews. And he was always sponsored by, you know, something very cool. He's a photographer. And he had his own show. He shot it like in his home and he would only average like 50 000 views i'm like how is this guy doing this but i thought notebooks could

be something like that that would speak to comedy fans but my whole intention was to because i felt like stand-up was being like homogenized like because when you would just do some of these shows the set was built and you would just stand there and perform, but it was no way of an audience member to go, I want to follow this guy. I want to come see this woman or this guy live. So I thought notebooks, the show we're talking about is called Notebooks,

and it's basically every comic. The one thing comics never throw away is their old notebooks. So I sat down with Joe. I sat down with some other comics. I couldn't believe I found those. Wasn't it fun, you start going through it and you i was what you got to see that you watch joe go back to where he was when he was like performing it i could see it on your face i could see you like remember like where you wrote this stuff where you came up with it and it's just i don't know it just shows that this isn't like we make it look easy but it's like

it shows the journey it's also like a way of like appreciating like cause sometimes we're hard on ourselves it's like damn man

you know what I mean like and there's funny stories where you're like I thought this bit was gonna make me this was gonna shut it down this was my bring to pain

you know right this was my bring to pain right right right I mean it's just and because right cause I can listen to a comedian and tell how long they've been pain, you know? Right. This is my brain to pain. Right, right, right. I mean, it's just, and because, because I can listen to a comedian and tell how long they've been doing it, you know? And I wanted to, I got to this place where I don't believe anybody sucks.

I just believe they haven't found it yet. And I'm interested in like- Let me tell you something. There's some people that suck. I didn't even say that. Don't get confused. I didn't even say that. Don't get confused.

I didn't even say that. Don't get confused. You can't grow plants in the sand. You just did yoga today, John. Yeah, it doesn't matter. There's a reality. There's a reality. Yeah.

There's a reality. But I mean, we got into this space where now people post everything online, so you're watching them. I have videos of me in San antonio texas in 1996 not great but it's on a vhs tape in my basement you know what i mean we're watching you grow right people yeah but now that would that would be on youtube and people would be like so when i did hit some people would be like i can't stand owen from something that they saw you know what i mean it was like i was figuring it out man i didn't know i thought fart jokes were funny and uh i did them

you know but you can't worry about that though yeah yeah that's that's you just got to worry about what you're doing right now yes you can never worry about what you did all right i'm gonna put it on notebook i'm putting notebooks out yeah on youtube and um do we found i found some shit from 1991 right it was that was crazy so all right so terrible the writing was so bad it was great but that's what was crazy about it. It was so great. And you were embarrassed when you were reading it. It was fantastic.

But it just, I hadn't read it. I knew I had it, so I grabbed it and I brought it to you. Yeah. But I hadn't looked at it before you and I were sitting there. That's the point. Yeah. So, when I was going through it, I was like, oh, my God, this is so bad. Yeah.

Thinking about my 23-year-old self writing jokes. It's the best. And sometimes you find a gem where you go, damn. That might be good. There's some bitch you bailed on. We're like, you're so, you're it now. So I know how to make this work. You can have a, we had some people connect with that.

And what I love about it is comics aren't burning material. Right. So I feel like everyone can do the show. I mean, I prefer to have somebody that's gotten their 10,000 hours in.

Yes. And so we can have like, you know, those stories and it's just an interesting way in. I loved it.

I loved it so much. But my initial, my point is, I was like, I want to do this for YouTube. But then I was like, man,

maybe there's a televised play for this. And three years later. Yeah, I think nothing is worth bringing to TV anymore. Yeah. It's just not worth it anymore. You're going to deal with too many people. You don't need to deal with them. They're not going to have good things.

Half the people, and this is generous, half the people that you deal with that are executives really don't give a fuck about anything other than their mortgage or their car or their career or getting respect or office politics or they they might be working at comedy central they could easily be working at the history channel or easily working at some other fucking network and here i am tv network here i am trying to create a platform for some of my friends. I feel like, why don't you have a following?

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, if people just saw your work ethic, like how you write your jokes, people would be like, I like you now. I understand what this is.

Yeah. And I felt that that's what was missing from all these specials where people just stand in a spot and everybody has the same background. They changed the name no you know no shade on that but it's like very few people were popping off that and so much so people thought i had one of those like did i tell you did i ever tell you my uh my my comedy central story no um so okay so i'm gonna name check some people on here but but I literally I but I'm not doing it for it's all good.

Like I learned a lot from this experience. So George Carlin was performing at Hermosa Beach Comedy Magic Club. I go down and watch George Carlin perform. This was this would be his last special at the time. Kimber Rick and Ball, who did was Rick Mill Productions. She comes over to me and she goes, why don't we have a half hour on you? And I go, I don't know. She gives me her card. She says, give me 21 minutes and we'll, you know, we'll make it happen. Or she alluded to that it would happen. And so I'm standing next to the guy who books Hermosa Beach.

And I go, yo, can I get 21 minutes? He's he's like no i could just give you seven eight minutes so i had to do like three seven minutes and pieces together i went to the improv can i get 21 minutes i went to the laugh factor can i get 21 minutes i got i got this car no one give me 21 minutes and so i had to go out of town i think i went to chicago somewhere taped it got it back at the time I'm writing on everybody hates Chris um uh uh Dave Becky and Michael Rotenberg met were managed Chris Rock at the time and they would and they were also producers on the show so they would come down once a month and sit in the video village and just, you know,

and so I was politicking. I go, man, if I can get Dave Becky to contact Kimber Rick and ball, maybe I can get with three yards. Cause I had no manager and three yards, sexy, you know,

management name. And so, uh, Ali Leroy, the showrunner was also managed by three yards. He was kind enough. He was just like He just did

Like this to Dave Yo man listen to this motherfucker And then just kept like Shooting So I was like Dave Mr. Becky What's up man

Kimber Rickon Ball Gave me the card Said if I can give her 21 minutes You know It's probable I'll get a half hour special I was wondering

If I could do that through you And he goes Say no more I rep Kimber Rickon Ball Done So at that time I was i booked a lot of colleges so i'm i am on cloud nine i go yo i'm about to get a half hour special uh i had a i did a car i had a gig for a college that night so i catched a red eye to iowa right ames iowa i'm performing in ames iowa get to the hotel room the next morning. Phone call on my cell phone. It's Dave Becky.

I'm calling. I go, this could be the start of us doing this a lot. He just cut that shit off. Yeah, Owen, talk to Kimber. She says she never heard of you. I was like, what? I thought you hazing me, right?

Nope. Sorry, man. Good luck, man. All right. Talk to you. Boop. Hung up. I was like what I thought I was like you hazing me right nope sorry man good luck man all right talk to you boop hung up and I was like what and it never dawned on me to call Kimber and be like hey like I was so floored by that oh no yeah it was like a gut punch and then check this out I show up at the college I I didn't have a college gig the contract wasn't finalized so i flew to iran for nothing lost money car rental car hotel had to drag my dumb tail back to la no special on the right and again i didn't ever contacted her i didn't even know like and that and that's why i said i could say her name because I never did that part, right? So, like, maybe I could have called her and been like, hey, da, da, da. She'd be like, oh, my God, so sorry.

I didn't even think that. I went into, I was having, like, a pity party on the set of Everybody Hates Chris. Ernest Thomas tells me, man, don't wait on Hollywood to give you permission to be great. And that's why I shot my first special. I took all my college money, did all that instead of just calling this woman like, hey, something weird.

And so, that's how I ended up shooting the first special Anonymous. That is so crazy. Isn't that crazy? She said she didn't even know you. I never heard of him. But meanwhile,

you had her card. Had it and didn't use it. That's why it's like, it's not, I don't feel like it's shade on her. It's like, I'm talking about and and if there's any comments this and like yo call them like you know i mean like i'm

just sometimes it's part of that world of not being all in and stand up and being in that writing world yeah that's true yeah that's ian too yeah ian edwards i've been saying the same shit to him forever i'm like you gotta stop taking those taking those jobs, man. You're too good. You're too good. Yeah, man. Yeah. And Ian Edwards and I, we started out together, man. I've known Ian for 27, 28 years.

I've known him forever. Dude, forever. Ian and I used to do Boston comedy in New York City in the village. Yeah, yeah. I remember dreadlocking Ian. Back in the day. Dreadlocking Ian. I remember i'd

seen him on death jam when he used to yell yeah before he went vegan he used to yell he calmed down when he was tnt angry angry and um i remember i saw him and he was the coolest to me i i was like yo man you're a comedian i'm a comedian he was like what you're doing now nothing come come with me and he took me to like a general meeting that he had and then we went to two sets and i never forget i never forget he we performed he performed in like a white room it was crushing and i said to him, hey, man, that was amazing. It was great. He goes, I didn't trust him.

Laughing way too much. I don't trust that. Yo, I never heard that before. I never heard that. But I was like, what? That was so cool. You didn't trust him. That's hilarious.

Yeah, but he was so kind To me That it's like Just showing that generosity In a space where he didn't have to Like you have people Like man get away from Alright man He's a classic human Classic yeah

I love him I love that dude to death I always take pictures of him Every time he falls asleep Cause you know he's vegan Oh he's tired So we get on a plane together And I don't mean

There's vegans out there That are eating well Right He does not He just eats vegan But that means Like all it is Is a piece of bread

He'll eat a piece of bread He'll eat some rice He's not He doesn't get all his nutrients He just doesn't Right You know He doesn't exercise either

But whenever we're on a plane That motherfucker passes out So I take all these pictures of him Every time we go on the road together We sit next to me Every time he passes out We're like We're on the runway this

dude is nodding out always then he got me he got me recently he got me he caught it it's just giant smile i've never seen him smile that well do you see the video of it there's a video of it on instagram he he got me and he's just got this huge smile and i'm out cold and he's sitting next to me and now every time i fly with him i'm scared of blacking and I'm out cold, and he's sitting next to me. And now every time I fly with him, I'm scared of blacking out. I'm scared of falling asleep. He's going to get a video of me. That's hilarious. I woke up.

He was asleep. I woke up next to me, and he was asleep, and I was asleep. I don't want him to film me while I was asleep before he went to sleep. That's the funnest shit when it's like that. It's like spy versus spy shit. Yeah, yeah. Hello, Joe. Yeah. Hello, Ian. Dude, the video of him hovering over me while I'm out cold is wonderful. that's the funnest shit when it's like that it's like spy versus spy shit yeah yeah hello Joe yeah

hello Ian dude the video of him hovering over me while I'm out cold is one of the I never laugh so hard that's so funny I landed

and I checked my Instagram and I saw that and I just started fucking howling crying man it's so funny that's so funny

I wish you could one time I was giving him like smoothie recipes because he was like asking about that stuff and ian is like incredibly frugal it's it's so funny you know and i was like all right so what you want to do is you want to you know you take strawberry banana you take a protein you can take you know you want some green stuff he goes or i could just eat a banana yeah i mean but that's kind of like defeating the purpose you want to you know

and so he i think he's doing smooths and stuff now but back then i just remember i i was like what huh like i just gave you this whole recipe i could just eat a banana and it's cheaper you know that was cheaper that's what it is i think that was i don't know but i was just like protein powder in his life so funny man and so yeah so i i grew up in in prince george's county maryland right and a lot of comedians come from there um chappelle i have a great chappelle story because we're the same age so when i was 19 and i just started green bell comedy connection what i loved about chappelle i'm bringing this up because it's mark twain awards he gave a shout out to a guy named tony woods so tony woods is also from the DC area. And so at 19, I'm in this comedy club,

Greenbelt Comedy, it's a black room. Chappelle is on stage and he's getting booed. And his dismount off getting booed is something I've never seen before in my life. It was fantastic.

He's like, fuck y'all, I'ma be famous. I'ma be famous. Like he just kept saying that and then just walked off. And when he walked off, I was like, oh, my God, they booed him? Like in my head, I'm like, if they booed him, I don't stand a chance in comedy because like what just happened?

When he walked by, nobody wanted to touch him because he had that bomb on him. So even I was like, damn hey hey man and he and he's that sweet bomb on that bomb yes and he sits down in in the in the booth right here and i i just can't stop looking at him because i'm watching you know how they say the stages of grief like i'm watching the stages of and i keep, why doesn't he leave? And he's sitting there, and Tony Woods goes on stage next. And Tony Woods is like, wow, man, god damn.

Like, just kind of a similar cadence. And Tony just destroys, got a standing ovation. Like, night and day. And I'm just 19, just nude just nude like absorbing this and i go what the fuck just happened tony walks off stage as a comic i'm just kind of like eavesdropping like i think i'm five seven but i'm fucking six five but i'm just trying to like look at what they're going to do next and they get up together and they walk out i kind of just follow them out thinking i don't know what's gonna happen but hey kid wanna hang with us i don't know they get in the same car

and and it's like i think it was a hatchback i'm not sure and tony drives off i'm like whoa they came together like that's that was all i knew of that of that relationship and so and i and i i knew that tony had been doing it lot longer, and I knew that Dave, it's kind of like how when Kobe came into the league and was talking like Mike, and then Kobe leaned into who Kobe was. Became who he is. Yes. You know, I speak Italian. I'm speaking Italian. I speak like this.

These are the things that are important to me. And so you watched Dave do that separate from tony but what i love about what dave did and this is why he's great is he had he recognized tony in his greatest like comedic moment like it's the most honest thing you can do you know i mean like most people would be like i did this on me but he was like and what he said about tony could not have been truer you know what i mean and so it just like touched my heart. Cause I was, I was there at the epicenter when I was watching Dave figure it out. And it was probably like, and it was like,

and the material he was doing, it just didn't connect with, it was a blue collar, um, black crowd. And he, I think he was doing like the superhero stuff. Like,

man, uh, you know, Wonder Woman's magic lasso. I don't want to hear that magic lasso shit like it was just it was just that it wasn't like it wasn't funny because to me i'm a 19 year old i thought this shit was hilarious so that's the other thing i felt like am i wrong like i'm laughing and you hit boo boo like i was like oh shit i can't help you dave like that's just and he uh and he and he

and he came down you know and then like a couple a couple, a couple, I feel like six months later, I saw him on HBO or something. Like, it was like, so I was like, damn, he didn't let it stop him. And so I learned like all these lessons just sitting in the back of a comedy club. Donnell Rollins, who might come in and interrupt us. No, he, he, he too was, is from that area and uh yeah man and i remember and donnell like you know you know how people talk about coming when he was on stage um people were saying he spoke korean he did i was like god damn who is this dude and he was the first comic i ever saw commanding audience and i thought the audience because, 19. Like, I had done comedy more than five times.

And I hear the audience go, do the Aspen bit. And he would do his bit about Aspen. That would be hilarious. Do the bike bit. And he would do this bit about not getting anybody. And I thought this motherfucker had, like, the audience had, like, requests. You know what I mean? I was like, how great is this dude?

Like, they know his work, and they're requesting it. But years later, I didn't know that is this dude like they know his work and they're requesting it but years later I didn't know that those were like comics like maybe it might have been comics or it might have been his but he he always had like he was just so amazing so I had all these references early on as like where you can take the art form you know and how fearless it was and then i went out to south bend uh where it was just completely different like i was in college you know and but i but i had all this like these mental downloads of like uh of just how these different styles that hadn't really touched like the midwest comedy. It's so funny when you're starting out, too, because you're trying to figure out what style is going to work. Do I change?

Do I shift? Yeah. Who am I? I went through all of that. Everybody does. You have to. And that's, again, bringing it back to what Notebooks is. I want to know what your particular thing was.

I know what mine was, but all of ours is different. But we all play the same sport, but we all play the same. It's like, we play the same sport, but we all play it different ways. And I love, I love that shit. Like,

so yeah, it's, it's ironic that you bought that, that show up. Cause I was like, should I bring that up again? Yeah, you should bring it up.

Yeah. I was so honored that you said you would do it too. When I saw those numbers, I was like, oh shit, that's hilarious. You had the legal pad action. It's so old too. it's just amazing that i kept them well yeah we do you can't stop someone yes and i'm sure there was certain several times when you were urged to throw them away and you're like yeah my wife was trying to throw them away i go nope yep that's

what gave me the idea my wife was trying to toss mine no fucking way those are gonna be worth something someday. And also when I was going through them, I was always thinking, like, maybe one day I'll find a gem. Maybe there's a gem in here. Just a premise. Just a weird premise. It's in there. But it's so hard to get that discipline, like, to literally go through it.

You know what I mean? How do you write? Do you sit in front of a computer and write? Do you write in front of a notebook? That's a you have good ideas you just good so what i do you know what i started doing and i'm gonna do a podcast too it's gonna be called in context with owen smith because what i started doing is i started reading a newspaper more and if whenever i read the newspaper my brain fucking explodes with a whole bunch of just ideas newspaper yeah a fucking newspaper i like i like the physical i like holding it but now i but now i just i'm getting myself to doing the online stuff

just because it's it's just more practical because every time i go to get the paper like it's not i always feel so funny when i'm holding a newspaper now. Like, what is this? What are you, Captain America? What are you, Frozen in the 50s? What are you doing? Yeah. But I like because you can see the words and you can see like they use specific word choice. And my brain just starts going, damn, that's funny. But my act isn't that right.

My act is more personal. But just Chris Rock told me something a long time ago. He said, I don't suffer from, what is it when you can't think of anything? Writer's block? Yeah, I don't suffer from writer's block. I suffer from reader's block. I was like, oh, shit. And D.O. Hughley told me a long time ago, if you read the newspaper every day, that's equivalent to having a master's. No, it's not.

Well, that's GED logic, man. But I was like, yo. You have to write papers. You have to do serious research and take exams. Listen, when he said it to me, I was like. That's hilarious. Okay, you know. But I didn't know he had his GED.

It ain't no shade of D, but I was like, like that stayed with me. So I was like, so I would always try to like read a whole newspaper. It depends on what paper too. The New York Post,

you got to go back. You got to go back. You got to, that's hilarious. You're going to slide back to fifth grade. That's hilarious. That newspaper is hilarious.

I love the New York Post my goodness every time I read it they just shitting on people it's fantastic it's like it's not a tabloid but it is

it is but it's really the news it's the news but they talk shit and it's funny it's funny New York Post I grab that every time

I'm back in New York it's funny shit man yeah it was so I've always tried to but you know like shit would come to me in my sleep conversations. And for me, it's about finding what is the right, I don't feel like there's, I feel like where's the best place for this joke to live. You know what I mean?

Is this a standup joke? Could I get more traction out of this if it's a sketch? You know what I mean? Um, and then if it is a sketch? You know what I mean? And then if it is a sketch, how can I still make it sing as a stand-up joke? And what's fun for me is if I do something and I revisit it and I can do it a lot cleaner and clearer, then I get excited because then I can play. Because that's the other thing.

Sometimes when you write, you forget to play. I remember I think I saw Bill maher or somebody like that performing he he he he um you know he kind of just stands there and so i saw him come off stage one time and he was like man that fucking audience you know sucked and uh and and i was thinking in my head like i wouldn't say to him but i was like man you just forgot to play like you for right yo yo all your shit was fire, but it was – You're not having fun. Yeah, sometimes. And so when I watch his show and I can see he's playing, it's like, ah. Yeah.

You forget that sometimes. You forget that. I mean, shit, he's up to deadlines. He's got to do all that stuff. But when I saw him live that day, I go, ah. He was trying to figure it out still, so he didn't have the little – so it's all those little things. And so sometimes I could be too hard on myself trying to get it like technically, technically right.

And when I just remember to play, this shit is so fun. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's about creating moments and you forget all of that. But for me, I'm always trying to, I'm always, I don't know, man. I'll hear shit. I'll see shit. I'm like trying to, I'm always, I don't know, man. I'll hear shit. I'll see shit. I'm like, what is that?

Like, so right now it's Black History Month. All this stuff about Martin Luther King. But my head went to, yo, this dude, the FBI, bugged. Like, they listened to all of his stuff. And so now I'm thinking about the guys listening to ML to mlk like you couldn't all be civil rights like they i wonder if he turned any of them you know like they're listening like it's got a good point right yeah i kind of agree with this moment you know or they'd be like so that's how you make potato salad you know i mean like like just listening to whatever how many people you think were assigned to listen i'm fascinated with that and like i wonder that's a weird relationship weird relationship

and you're getting like you're getting a peek into the world of somebody you're told is this one thing and what if you you know you hear something you just don't agree like i'm fascinated with stuff like that so i'll try to like figure out if you can make that funny sure and that's where great bits come from and they come from that uncertainty like okay where is it where i know there's something in that yeah there is something in some fbi some square fbi dude yeah listen to martin luther king yeah injustice anyway yeah there's a there's like there's a thing that he could say yeah that would turn him yeah so i play with stuff like that so sometimes one of the one of my favorite comedians um i have a whole bunch but comedians that always get to me are people that well i go

i didn't know comedy could do that so i remember when when I heard Dick Gregory on. It's an album called Dick Gregory On. And he was the first black millionaire to do stand-up. And he has a great book. He has a book called Nigger. But his best book, I wouldn't say best, but my favorite book of his is called The Shadow That Scares Me. And it's really him giving solutions to all of these like problems that, that are, you know,

that were in the narrative at that time about black folks. And I just was, I was amazed at his writing and I was blown away by his standup. Some of the social commentary he would make. Right. And I was like, Oh man, I want to do some of that.

So I, I used to, that was back in my thirties when I was trying to solve the race problem. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, man, I want to do some of that. So I used to – that was back in my 30s when I was trying to solve the race problem. You know what I mean? I was like, I ain't fucking with that no more. That's out of my system. But I used to – because I was still in the orbit of the bring the pain, like, oh, I got to have my – Right.

And it just – I was like, it's not really changing the world, man. I'm making some points. And it just, I was like, it's not really changing the world, man. It's making some points. But I kind of like backed away because I used to do this bit about being at a rap concert, Busta Rhymes, and it's all white folks. And I'm there and he goes, all my real niggas make some noise. Everybody made noise. And I'm just like, me and like the two other black people lock eyes like yo there's something

hilarious in that too like are you allowed to do that right you can't say it but can you cheer right I was like what

and so then I go maybe they didn't hear him but in hip hop you say everything twice so he said it again like I said

all my real niggas make some noise. And so I was like, man, not only, I was like, white people niggas now. This is what I was saying. I was doing this shit

like in Milwaukee, Appleton, Wisconsin. And I go, and not only can we call them nigga, they paying $80 for the privilege to be called nigga. $80 a ticket.

And I would go white folks tonight. I'll call you nigga for 10, $10 nigga sale, nigga clearance cash only. Cause I know how you niggas are. Right. So proud of this bit. At the end of the show,

I'm selling my dumb DVDs, you know, selling my merch and inevitably a white person would always come up to me, give me $20 and call me Nick. Oh! They're like, that's not the bit! Jesus Christ.

That's not the bit. So, late 20s, early 30s, you know, you're the angry comic. Like, what the fuck?

You know? And then, now that I'm a little older, I go, man, that'd be funny if I, because I kept the money,

you know what I mean? Like, if that was my stick like i didn't sell merch look y'all can call me whatever y'all want for 20 you have a line of people right you'd be like this billionaire and doing interviews like well i made know but for me just living in that space man i was just like nah after i tried it and i was getting that kind of response i just was a thing too where you when you're a comic like you want to be respected so you want to come up with a bit that like it transcends comedy yeah you want it you want everybody to

go wow owens on some real shit yeah you know it's i think there's a danger in that and that you can kind of trick yourself you can like i had some dumb bits that i did that were like i was just trying to get people to think that i was really good rather than it just being good yeah being good just from a real personal place it's so much it, I had this conversation with Robert Downey Jr. about acting. Something I said to him, and he said exactly, I said, isn't a lot of it just about getting out of your own way? Because that's what a lot of it is with comedy. I think it's with acting. I think it's probably with music.

I think it's probably with everything. I think so. You've got to get out of your own way. Because the way you look at yourself, the way you want people to look at you, you know. It can hold you back. It can hold you back.

It can hold you back. How many conversations have you ever had with a comic and they talk about how they want like the respect of the industry,

they want the people to look at them, these fucking people don't respect me and it's like, God damn, do you hear yourself? Yeah.

You're wasting all this mental fuel on this nonsense. My mother-in-law has the best saying. My wife says it all the time. She goes, if you worry about yourself, you'll have a busy, busy time. If you worry about you, you'll have a busy, busy time. Because when you hear people going off, I want them.

They don't see that. Hey, man, just worry about you. All the shit you have to do, you focus on that, you'll be busy enough. And nothing could be truer than that when I hear comics do that. Comics come up with a lot of excuses for why things aren't going on. My favorite one, this is my favorite one. They don't want white men. They don't want white straight men.

I'm like, what in the fuck are you even talking about i've heard that and they've said that to me that is so fucking crazy i'm like okay man it's literally 90 of all comedians they're not trying here's one thing that is true yeah there are certain networks and certain that are trying to get people that are not white men. That's true. However, there's still a fucking shitload that are getting specials. Yes. Yes. The idea that that's somehow an impediment.

And not really pushing the, you know. It just lacks so much self-awareness to say that there's a problem being a white man. You understand, when they say it man it's you understand when they say it to me you understand i'll be like what do i do with this like so it's so not self-aware what no one guy came to me one time at the comedy store and he was complaining about not being able to get on staff. As a paid regular? Yeah, but he wanted to be a staff writer. As a writer, yeah, as a writer. And it came out that he sold shows.

So I go, so you have a quote. And I go, you know what I mean? What's your quote? And he told me his quote. I go, do you know what a staff writer makes? I go, you're not getting hired because you have a quote. And you know what I mean i mean like no one's ever worked with you in the room you need to know explain what that means for people okay oh so

so um when you so everything when you sell a television show they give you a a contract of terms in case the television show goes and they agree to pay you an amount per episode of the show with because but that quote can travel to another studio. So if you go someplace else, they may give you the bare minimum offer and you can go, I have a quote, right? If you are a staff writer. And so and typically that quote is a decent amount, right? Per episode. So, but typically if you're a staff writer, I think you get paid. I'm going to say it's less than $6,000 a week is how they, the math would work out.

And so you have this thing where, um, you have this quote, that's probably $30,000, um, in episode. I don't know what that would track a week because they amortize it over however long your your state of work and as a staff writer you're getting paid like this amount so no showrunner in their right mind is going to just

ask you to take a pay cut right from your quote your people won't allow them to do that and no showrunner is going to hire you at that high quote if you've never been in a room before. Like, I'm not going to pay you $30,000 an episode to learn. You know what I mean? So it's a lot of math missed in this complaint that you have built for yourself, which is fine. I just don't want to hear it because I know the math. So it's like, I hope I did a good job. No, that makes sense.

But it's like, yeah, man, you succeeded at selling several shows. So that's like the lane you're in unless you come in and go, listen, I'll take a pay cut. I want to learn. I need to get, if that's really what you want to do. When I told him that, it was like i don't know you ever tell somebody like a different solution and the face they make is i wish you know how you take pictures of ian sleep i wish i could have pictures of like that face like when the light bulb goes

off yeah yeah oh that's what's wrong but the difference is i think between successful people and people who are moderately successful is they're open to that right like you just told me put notebooks on on youtube guess where it's gonna be it's gonna be on fucking youtube you know i'm saying i'm going to do it like um i'm not gonna be like i don't know you know you you actually connected what i've been thinking like the whole time it's almost like you just gave me that extra like incentive to yeah, man, I'm doing this now. So I checked in with him. No, he didn't do the thing.

And so I almost think he needs to feel that he's being, you know. Silly. Yeah, stacked against, so it fuels his. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, if that's your. He needs to feel like he's being maligned. Yeah, yeah, if that's your thing. Misrepresent. Yeah. Yeah, if that's your thing.

Yeah. Yeah. That fucking Hollywood world of... It's incredible. It's a gross world, man. Dude, the fact that you live here and figured out how to succeed outside of it is kind of diabolical. It's diabolical in a lot of ways. I'm kind of in it, but I'm kind of not. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Like, do you still Go to meetings Or do you Do you still No no no no Do people come here No there's no meetings

There's no meetings I say no to everything I say no to every interview I say no to every meeting I say no to everything I'm not interested But he said yes to notebooks He did notebooks

Yeah but I said yes to that Anything my friends do That's so funny I'm not interested I don't want any meetings I don't want to do anything more than what I'm already doing. Did you have this vision? Oh, that's what I wanted to ask you.

Because I just had an audition today. And I wanted to ask you, did you ever go for auditions? Yes. Did it become a thing that you set out to be great at? Or was it always something that you just were like, I'm going to see where this takes me? I'll give you the craziest story about auditions ever as far as success stories.

I auditioned for two shows ever. I got both of them. The only two shows I ever auditioned for. I auditioned for a show called Hardball that was on Fox. It was a terrible baseball show.

I got that. It started off really good but the network fucked it up. And then I auditioned for News Radio and I got that. So two really good, but the network fucked it up. And then I auditioned for news radio, and I got that. So two shows in a row. So did you walk me through it, though? Did you have to go do the first audition, callback, test, and all of that?

All that, yeah. Okay. Do you remember who else was up for it? No, but I remember news radio. I remember, see, news radio, I was 26. So that was only like four years from when I was fighting. Right. So I had a different feeling of fear and anxiety than a lot of people did.

And I was in the waiting room. There was an open call. And the open call, it wasn't an open call, but it was like a cattle call. There was like 50 fucking dudes waiting to get in there. And you would read, but it was interesting. It wasn't funny. I was like like what is this but they did it on purpose they wanted to cut out all the corn balls so they gave you lines and

you had to play it straight like the play it was like me trying to figure i was a handyman at this radio station so i had to figure something out and i was like i don't know what's going on with it and they're like but you're supposed to fix it but yeah but i can't fix it so i don't know what to do like that kind of thing like there was no there was no punchline and I told my manager I was like I don't know

I go the pilot was really funny because I saw the pilot and there was another guy on the pilot Ray Romano was actually the original guy on the pilot and they fired him replaced him with another guy

and then they fired that guy and then they had a call to see who the next guy would be and then I went in to read for it and then the first like the first script was not it was just straight it was weird so I said I then i went in to read for it and then the first like the first script was not it was just straight it was weird so i said i don't know what to do with it i said i'm just gonna do it straight and so then uh i got a call back and then i got new sides and the new

sides were hilarious and then i realized like oh they're trying to cut out the corn balls yeah they got a bunch of wacky you know fucking real obvious sitcom guys so i went in for the second call and it was me and three other dudes and they looked like they were about to get shipped off to vietnam they were white pale sweaty everyone was nervous and i just i remember looked at them and go oh i got this and i sat down and i plopped my feet up on the couch and i just i just kicked back and relaxed i relaxed i felt good nice i was like how nervous you fucks are yes are you guys gonna go in there and choke yes i just went in there and did it and but also the thing for me is i never wanted to be an actor i just did it for the money

yeah like when when i got an audition for hardball it was because disney gave me a bunch of money for a development deal because i did stand up on mtv. So I did the MTV half-hour comedy hour. And then MTV, they offered me the most ridiculous deal ever. It was like 500 bucks to do a pilot. And then if they decide to do it, even if they decide to shoot it and never film it, they have you locked up exclusively for two years. It was so ridiculous. It was because they had made celebrities with like Dennis Leary, like Dennis Leary had become famous from MTV and then he left. So they're like,

you know, we're going to keep people here now. You know, we're going to, if we make someone a star, we're going to keep them. So they, they, they offered the most ridiculously low ball deal of all time. So I said no to that. We said no to that. And then and then uh my manager sent my tape out and said hey this guy is about to sign this deal with you know someone you know if you guys are interested do it now i think he said might have said mtv so then we got all these offers and so i don't know i couldn't answer my phone they told me don't answer my phone just go to the pool hall stop stop answer your phone because people are calling me at home and uh this is this is back in the day i didn't have a cell phone yeah so then uh two

weeks later i'm in hollywood having meetings and then uh a month later you were in boston yeah i was in new york oh okay and then a month later i'm uh living there a month later great i'm out in hollywood with jim brewer jim brewer was on the show with me in the pilot he was uh the opposing mascot he was hilarious so me and jim were buddies from back in the day so we're all hanging out and then uh you know that show got picked up i did like six episodes of that show it got canceled i'm just hanging out the store every night and then i'm ready to go back home to new york but i had already signed a lease so i had this fucking apartment for a year and i couldn't get out of it so i'm like god damn and then i got a

development deal with them with nbc based on the hardball show and so they said hey before we talk to you about doing your own show we'd like you to look at this pilot and see if you'd be interested in it and it's dave foley and phil hartman and andy dick and i'm like holy shit i'm like really i'm like yeah yeah i'm interested in this and then i came in and read for it next thing you know i had it next thing you know i'm on tv like i've been doing acting for like a couple of months and i'm sitting at a table next to phil hartman i'm like this is crazy like this is fucking crazy and all these different people and that were on the show it was fascinating man it's fascinating because i it's not something i ever wanted i was not

interested in it at all but all of a sudden it was happening i was like huh but that's part of probably why i was able to do it because it wasn't like this dream that was paralyzing me with anticipation and anxiety when i walked in that second audition i saw those dudes sweating i was like look at you nervous fucks it brought me back to fighting because fighting i used to i used to love seeing how nervous people were before fights and i would take naps i would lay down on the ground like in the in the bleachers because just to let everybody know i'm just gonna go sleep like you guys are all nervous i'm just gonna take a nap because it was you're playing psychological games like when i would knock guys out i'd walk away like it was normal like even though i was freaked out like whoa that dude's unconscious i would just walk around like, that's what I do, dude.

I do that shit every day. I'm going to do it to you, too. Brilliant. And so when I was in that room getting ready to go in and read, I had the same feeling. I'm like, oh, you guys are nervous. I'm like, ah. Put your feet up. What an asshole.

I was like this. Like, oh, I got this. You're that guy. Well, also, I was the only comic. Yeah. Those guys weren't comics. They weren't used got this. You're that guy. Well, also, I was the only comic. Yeah. Those guys weren't comics. They weren't used to performing live and all that. That's a giant advantage.

I love that. Like, when I would audition and, like, a really good-looking guy would walk in, I'd be like, well, he ain't funny. Like, seriously, I would have no fear. I'm like, yeah, whatever. This is a comedy. Yeah, good luck, man. Like, I have no fear. You know what I mean? It comedy yeah good luck man like i have no fear you know

what i mean it's too hard to be good looking and funny it doesn't really work out very often come on man you're gonna be funny to me let's do it the reason i did fear factor because i didn't want to work with actors anymore amazing when that came up i was like because i had i had auditioned for like uh one or two sitcoms that i didn't get after fear factor and but it was also was a thing where i was like man i need to make some money like i'm not making as much money doing stand-up and i was used to making tv money and i had development deals and they didn't go and then i auditioned for a couple shows and that didn't happen and then um i guess it was like two years because fear factor yeah 2000 2001 fear factor was 2001 and news radio ended in 99

and um it was a it was an opportunity to do something with no actors i was like fuck yeah i'm in because even the audition process is even weirder you're dealing with all these mind games that people are playing in the in the waiting room it's like oh you people are so strange they're the strangest people because their life is centered around getting people to like them for auditions right so they're always they're always trying to pretend they're exactly what these casting people want in terms of their their political beliefs the way they talk the way they act there's nothing weirder than being around unsuccessful actors.

Ones that are trying to make it. Like once they're successful, like if you're talking to like Robert Downey Jr., he's a regular dude, man. He's a regular dude. But he's famous as fuck and super successful. And there's a lot of those guys like that. Yeah, you know what I equate that to? When I first moved out here, before you get on the lot, right, and you're competing with everyone, then that's when you hear people in Hollywood are shady, people are full of shit, you can't trust. Because we all were basically unemployed, you know, competing for the same.

Yeah, man, I'm going to meet you, I'm going to meet you. Hey, none of us got jobs. Like, we all talking. Right. But once I got my first gig, I met a different none of us got jobs like we all talking right but once I got like my first gig I met a different character of people oh these people are nice oh cause they working

you know like you know what I mean yes and so it is something about it is something about people who figured out you know how to make

a living in this town that they have a you know a lot more you know integrity and a little more credible and honest.

And you go, man, you're a real dude. But, yeah, when you first get here and you're thrown in that line where everybody's just, like, struggling, it took me back to, like, basketball, AAU, where, like, I loved playing. I wanted to be a globetrotter. Like, I know how to do, like, all the tricks and all that stuff. I love having fun. And when you start getting – when i started looking at colleges and getting recruited i always it's

becoming a business and i wasn't ready for that you know and uh i literally liked having fun like playing basketball and i would be playing um at some tournaments with some kids and like i'm like damn yo you got a kid oh shit like you're playing for your family you know what i mean like and i'm up there like having a good time having a good time and it was serious for them and so you know just like so when i when i came out here i fell into the commercial world for i started booking commercials a lot and i still i still do. If I go out,

my wife was like, you should go back out for commercials again because I had that same mindset where, all right, man, but as a comic, I get it. I get the joke.

I know how to like, you know, nail it. Um, I've booked pilots, but then I like, because I write too, I could see like all the rewriting happening on set and i

could tell if it's gonna go or not by because they always lately they've been trying to cuten everything up and i go i get it but in the 12th hour when you guys are deciding what you know the cute show's not gonna make it so what do you mean by cuten everything up we're we're like so i was before he walked in i was like did did you watch Curb last night? They did a funny thing about a handicap placard, right? And it just spoke to, everybody wants one of those things. Hey, man, you got a handicap? And they did a montage of all the stints you would do if you had a handicap placard.

That might be in the pilot at first and you'd be you'd be howling and then as you're shooting it man the handicap thing is coming off a little mean what if we make it oh you know i mean and then like they button it up to where it's not as gratifying because you're you're laughing at but just the primal nature of yeah man i would do the same shit i'm rocking with this show to then they're cuting it up and they're worried about the repercussions yeah they take the edge the edge off it yeah so then so when you watch it back and you go we got this show we got this show i don't really know anybody in this show this guy's a known face they're both cute put the known face out you know and but again i am

literally armchair quarterbacking like it could be it could be a series of things. It's rare that someone does it right. That's what's interesting with new shows. It's not like there's a lot of people that are doing it right and there's a lot of great new shows. No. What do you think is the next thing, though? I think, first of all, streaming services have changed the whole game. Things like Stranger Things. Yes.

Those kind of shows. Now there's a new show on HBO that I'm addicted to called The Outsider. Is that good? Fuck yeah. Yeah? It's fucking good. It's fucking good. It's terrifying.

It's very good. It grabs me, like, because I watch Curb, and I'll see, like, the last two minutes. I'm like, what the fuck is, like, the last two minutes I see, I'm like, yo. It's Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman knows his shit because Ozark's amazing. Yeah. I see you, I'm like, yo! It's Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman knows his shit because Ozark's amazing. Those kind of shows, they're so off the charts in terms of what you could get away with on network television.

Network television is just so hampered. They're so confined. They have shackles. They just can't do anything wild. Anything outside the norm. They can't take any chance. I mean, on spoiler alert on the outsider you see a dead kid like 30 seconds into the first episode yeah you can not not just

dead but mauled i mean it's horrible i mean it's it's a stunning visual and if you can't handle that it's only you know it's not like something you see a lot right throughout the whole show but it's enough to fuck you up but they'll let you know like hey this is not cbs right this is this is chaos like this is as realistic a horror show as you're gonna get it's interesting when i watch yeah it's it's it's like everything everything is like a different palette right yeah like if you are on if a network show is like clicking i i can get how people would get you know fall in love with that the romance of that like oh this is good this is a good show but the but the process the creative process coming from a stand-up brain you know i'm a stand-up first it's it is it's very collaborative and it is like you say

it's collaborative with a lot of people who um at certain stages you're like yeah you know yeah but but then you so i because i'm just going through it so i was trying i'm being like very diplomatic and i go okay well what why why do you have this job what do you do and it's also like how do we talk to one another because i know what i'm thinking like what is so i'm using it as and i think because i'm a parent now so i'm just like when i'm with my if you know i'm in this space of just trying to figure out yeah because 26 year old me would be like man what the fuck are you talking about you know or or just been like this is stupid just but i'm in this space right now where i'm like okay

i know i don't like how you're talking to me right now i don't even understand it but i need to i think i need to try to figure it out and um you know it's interesting yeah working with people can be rewarding. You definitely learn about communication. Yeah. The problem is it's never as good

as your stand-up. No, no, yeah, you know, yeah, that's real. The problem is

you are already a great stand-up. I know, and it's like I'm trying to create a life over here. But it's the attraction of the business.

The business pulls you in. The business offers you of the business. The business pulls you in. The business offers you money. The business offers you security. It's true. They don't make money off your stand-up in this town. No. No. Unless it's a fucking booking agency, they don't make shit off of it.

Right. The business offers you this stability. You're going to go to CBS Radford. You're going to pull in every day. Hi, I'm Owen Smith. I'm working on the blah blah blah you go in there you got your parking spot whoa i did it man i did it for years and years and years you know i did it for five years on news radio yeah it's attractive but that's what you think about you

like you did it already yeah so it's like i've done both things yeah i've done well i've done i did two shows that went to syndication yeah I did two shows that went to syndication. Yeah. I did news radio that went to syndication, and then I did Fear Factor that did syndication. And I get offers all the time to do stuff on TV. I don't want to have anything to do with it. How did you and Stephen A, I wanted to ask you that, both talking about boxing. That was like an amazing thing to watch. MMA.

That was an amazing thing to watch. He's a generalist. Yes. And you were very specific. But why was that? Why were they together? Yeah. Because they were trying to.

He's a very popular guy. Okay. And there was a big event. Conor McGregor's playing Cowboy Cerrone. And then ESPN, obviously, it's on ESPN+. I got it. Okay. So he's an ESPN star.

I was like, what happened? Because I just saw an ESPN star. I was like, what happened? Because I just saw a clip on YouTube, and I go, what happened? Yeah. And it was clearly that. I felt like I was watching an open mic and a headliner both have a take on the topic. It's not a good place. He does not have, it's not a good place. Like, if you're coming from, if you're coming at martial arts, especially MMA, you have to have a deep understanding of the sport.

Right. You can't just have a peripheral knowledge and communicate with someone like me. I've been doing this a long time. That's what I thought. A long time. I've been working for the UFC since 1997, and I've been involved in martial arts since I was 14, 15 years old. So, this is not casual to me and i'm i'm balls deep in it and i'm also very very respectful very respectful

to the fighters very very understanding of what's going on and i look at it in a very comprehensive way his whole thing is making controversy you know his whole thing is he's a great shit talker. He's great at shitting on people. He's great at mocking people's performances. He's just a powerful communicator and an entertainer. The problem is you carry that over to MMA, man. Those fans are not having that. Right, that's what, yeah. They turned on him like wolves.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't say anything mean, man. I didn't say anything. No, no. I could have said some way way way meaner shit i was that's why i was watching i was like i was like oh shit this is this is crazy yeah i don't have anything against that guy i like him i think he's entertaining

but it's uh it's just you can't say cowboy quit he got his face smashed in he got head kicked i mean he just just doesn't understand what went down You can't say Conor didn't show you anything. He just ran right through a top welterweight in 40 seconds. He's a beast. It's like I understand what he's trying to do. He's trying to apply the same sort of way of talking about sports that he talks about maybe if it's a basketball game or maybe it's something else. He's trying to apply that to MMA. It's a different thing.

It's a different thing. There's no knockdowns. You get knocked down, the guy gets on top of you and punches your fucking face in. You know what I'm saying? It's a different thing. It's a different thing. There's no knockdowns. You get knocked down, the guy gets on top of you and punches your fucking face in. You know what I'm saying? It's not like boxing. It's so,

it is as raw as a sport ever gets. You're not even wearing shoes. You know? Your fingers are exposed. You got pads on your knuckles. You're allowed to elbow someone in the eyeball.

You're allowed to kick them in the eyeball you're allowed to kick them in the fucking face with your shin your shin bone slamming into someone's nose that happens all the time that's normal that's a normal day at the office it's a crazy sport man yeah so for that sport you have to be super respectful and appreciative of what's going on because those guys are putting their health on the line in a big big big way and those girls too those girls fuck each other up man it's rough to watch that was one of the hardest things for me to get over watching girls get fucked up because you don't think about that right i mean i saw that in the taekwondo days i definitely saw girls get ko'd but it wasn't as it wasn't as normal like in mma like you see girls get just smashed

man you see them get smashed like girls that fight amanda nunez she just beats the fuck out of them yeah whoa man it's a crazy sport man man but i don't have anything against steven no that's not why i brought it up i was just we were talking about tv that's what happened like the yeah the the interesting ideas that come from a different place. What if we take Joe and put him in? Yeah, man,

look, even that world, I don't want to be involved in that world. Like if ESPN wanted to give me a job, I'd be like, nope,

not interested. I don't want to have anything to do with that. This is what, like we did this Fight Companion podcast on Saturday during the day for the fight.

The fights were from New Zealand, the UFC fights before the Ties of Fury by Deontay Wilder fight. And we were talking about it and my friend Eddie was like how come they don't do something like this on TV

I'm like they couldn't there's no way we're drinking we have whiskey we're smoking weed we're talking crazy shit you know

Brendan Schaub every girl this bitch's ass and this and that everyone's talking crazy they're talking like guys normally talk we're sitting around but we're doing it over the internet

but it gets millions of views so it's one of those things where like if a network had a show like that they'd be like this is a hit it's a giant hit for a sports show that's watching for a sports show to get way more views than the actual show it's watching

so it's a fight companion we're watching the fights and we're talking about the fights but that gets more than twice as many views as the actual fights itself which is kind of crazy that's very crazy but the only way that happens is if no executive none of those half in half out people we're talking about before that really could work at the discovery channel or the history channel they're trying to cute and things up trying to take the edge off look guys we're going to cut that segment when you're talking about those girls' asses. It's just kind of disrespectful.

And, you know, I've got kids of my own, and I've got daughters. Like, get the fuck out of here. Like, you know, if we had a producer in here, like some network schlug. Oh, that's it right there? Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Giving us notes at the end of every show. Yo, I worked on it.

You couldn't do it. Yeah. notes at the end of every show you couldn't do it yeah when i worked on um late night um talk shows the whole narrative of freedom of speech was in the air and that's whenever we would write something it all had to be legally approved like that's the first time i saw that a lawyer would come hey guys and he'd be like you guys can't say you know all right man sorry you know we'd figure out you know fun ways and then and then you'd go out in the world and people like freedom of speech man this shit is all legally approved man like what you're seeing in this space is um it's not like you said like

but but when you guys could just say whatever you you want to say is to narrow it down to as few voices as possible that have control like this this is just you and me and and jamie's hanging out this is a three-man crew that reaches millions and millions of people that's insane like that's insane that's never happened before but that's the only reason why it works yeah because you don't have any like my sensibilities are all fucked up they're not normal like my what i think is okay in terms of drugs and violence and all the different things that i enjoy yes it's i mean i'm a hunter i bow hunt animals you know that's what i eat my every i smoke pot all the time you know i i'm always swearing yeah

like i don't believe in any of these things i i i you know i just think that when you're when you're putting together a show there's no way you would ever let a person like me be responsible for the job of promoting something, being the captain of a show. When you've got all these executives and their jobs are on the line, and you're going to have some loose cannon like like me who's a wild stand-up comic like my everything i've done has been wild all from the beginning from fighting to getting the stand-up from all it's wild it's wild stuff that's what i like i like when it's chaos that's what i enjoy yeah but there's no way you could ever have a network approve something like this there's no way the language saying cunt saying whatever the fuck you want to say talking about things in an honest way talking about what's bullshit about life about politics

about the the state of the way human beings communicate with each other yeah you you got to boil it down to just a couple of people when you boil it down especially guys like you and me who are comics who could talk real about stuff who aren't scared of saying their flaws aren't scared of saying where they fucked up and how you know it's those some of my favorite conversations are when you talk about this the shit you fucked up when you were young and dumb it's fun people hide from that stuff yeah they don't like it they don't like to feel like they're inadequate or or they always like to feel like they were always good like that's all nonsense yeah this kind of thing where you're doing a podcast this is i think this is the future

of all those talk shows those talk shows are dwindling they are like they're like flowers in the desert man they're not getting enough water there's no one watching if you look at the numbers like conan's show it's horrible you know, he's a legend. And all these guys are legends, but no one's watching that shit anymore. Because you could watch this or any other podcast. There's something like 900,000 of them. Oh, wow. And you could watch them or listen to them anytime you want.

You could stop it when you have to take a shit. You can come back. You know, you don't have to wait for it to come on. None of that nonsense. You could listen in your car. you can watch it on your computer like this is and people are being real this is a different world now with the internet there's too much real information for you to get spoon-fed nonsense on television you know that those like when i watch those cbs shows like those crime shows i'm like old people are watching this right old people and people that like have chemicals at work and

they come home drunk you know what i mean like there's something about something in the air like oh they just want to sit and have something mindless spoon fed to them it's just that's those network shows that's what keeps those things alive. Those things are so watered down and so nonsense. It's not real life. I wanted to tell you, I got beef with Malcolm Gladwell. Really? You spoke to him. Yes.

You need to connect us. What do you have beef with him about? I love him, right? Okay. You listen to his stuff all the time. And then he did something with some guy. I think he was a little tipsy but he was talking about how he could do stand-up doing stand-up is easy he

really said that he really said it i want to send you the clip oh and i just want to be like malcolm come on fam he said that yeah or something i have to find it he was like doing stand-up is nothing but and he intellectualized it it's a certain set of thing in the room with people drinking and he tried to like and i want him to feel it. Like, I want him to. That's like a guy who watches a fight and thinks, oh, fuck that dude up. Yes. And when he said that, I was like, Malcolm, you, come on, Malcolm, come on, man.

And it's like, I couldn't watch him anymore. I was like so angry. And I watched a few clips of him here. And I was like, man, I miss Malcolm. But he needs to know, you can't be. If he really said that, he just doesn't understand what it is.

No. He might just not understand what it is. I want him to, I want him to, I want to take him to a black room. I want him to go and stay like the realest room, you know what I mean?

Go do your thing, man. Go do your nonsense. I just want to see it. Just see him bomb. Just feel it Just crackle Feel the heat Coming off his body

Yeah Yeah Yes You can't I mean it's like To me it was like Man you wrote a book About 10,000 hours

And you sitting there Going I can do this It's like come on man Don't do that It seems like But this is what I've been saying About stand up for a while

Is that if you talk to someone Yeah A lot of people Have been funny in their life most people have said something funny of course everyone can talk yes right so all you're doing up there is talking and you say something funny it seems like i can do it yeah but did you do it yeah but you're you're talking and saying something funny to people who know you and love you yeah i know your quirks and your tics and all that stuff you're in front front of strangers. Right. Who may or may not be in that audience. Well, that's the difference, Gene. I don't know if you've ever seen this, but there's a lot of people that are maybe podcasters

or they do other things and then they're doing stand-up occasionally in front of their crowd. Yes. And they think they're doing good stand-up, but then they'll go on in the store and they'll get sandwiched into a lineup in the OR of murderers and then it's ugly. It gets ugly because reality sets in.

Because if they're all there to see you and they're all your fans and they paid money to hear you talk, they just want to see you. Like, hey, there's the guy from the show! Yay! And they've probably never been in the comedy club so if malcolm is doing these speeches and he's doing these speeches in front of these large audiences he's probably said some funny things so he probably thinks that he can do stand-up it's a

funny guy but when he got i was like ah man i need i need i need this i need to find dude i need to talk to him it's it's not one it's i don't think people understand what it is it's a weird it's a very weird art form because i don't i think it's only truly appreciated by people who've done it like truly appreciated in terms of what's actually happening yeah and it took me years to realize that what was going on when you're killing it's a sort of a form of hypnosis there's a the mind the audience is letting you into their mind, and they're letting you think for them. That's why when you have clunky shit, or you blow yourself up,

or you have a distorted perception of yourself, or you have too many words, it's annoying, it's frustrating, it's hard for people to absorb. You lose some of that grip that you have on them. But when someone has an economy of words and they lock in and their jokes are tight and then they keep going and going you're lost you're lost in their thoughts you just let those people carry you i love it i love my favorite thing is to sit in the audience and loves someone killing i just go along with them like ah it's so

fun it's so fun but to break that down to just sentences and words and you say this and you say that it's not that there's so much more to it so many elements that's why i love watching like oh you know what i wish i wish there was a stand-up show you know how like i love now that some of these ex-nBA players are on ESPN because now they're speaking about the game from being players. Yes. So you have people who clearly have never played. Right. You know, very learned, you know, pundits.

And they go, that ain't it, man. Yes, exactly. You ain't never do this. It's this, this, this, this, this. That team going to lose. And then the team loses. I love that shit. And I wish there was a show like that for stand-ups.

We could watch a stand-up special. It would be hard. I know, because you come across as hating. There's some dog shit specials. You know and I know there's something that should have never happened. And you watch them and you'd have to break it down. You'd have to go, this is nonsense. This is nonsense right here. But i enjoy figuring out that puzzle like yeah like but we couldn't do it publicly no i know fuck you know

what i've been doing you know who my some of my favorite people to do this with uh me and eddie pep are sitting in the back of the uh room and just just tear. And it's so fun. It's so fun. And we're both like, ah. And then we go up and do our act. When you see bullshit, bullshit comedy is fun to watch sometimes. It's so fun. But what I'm saying,

I'm fascinated by that thing where we're truth tellers, we're honest, we spend our whole lives trying to figure out what our truth is, but we can't speak truth about certain things still. Yeah. Because it's bad optics. It's bad thing. It's bad optics.

Good way. But it's like, my intention is to help it. You know what I mean? Like my intention is not, that's why I said, I don't, I don't like,

I'm not walking around going, this guy sucks. I love that you say it's dog shit but i i feel like i just feel like you what you should have you should have taken a year you know i mean yeah and this is a good start but this wasn't ready in everything it's a case in fighting there's people that are bad at fighting oh my god i want to see what that is like oh there's people that are terrible at it oh my gosh and then they you know they try to fight professionally and they get crushed yeah and then there's people that are really good at it and you watch them and you go oh i see what is

what's what's separating the creativity the aggression the the understanding the technical aspects of it that's the same with stand-up there's people that are mediocre at music there's people who are terrible at poetry there's people that are mediocre at music. There's people that are terrible at poetry. There's people that are just, you know, maybe they're still on their early notebooks. You know what I mean? Maybe it's just a journey and they just haven't gotten to the point yet. But there's also a thing where you were talking about bits that you would do where you try to get people to think about you a certain way. I see a lot of that today. You see a lot of this weird woke comedy oh yeah where it's

like they're just they're setting out to try to to establish this like social justice premise rather than be funny but it's almost they're doing it because they think it's the same mentality and it's almost always people that are not not really yet. Maybe they've had a little bit of success, a taste. But it's the same mentality as those phony actors that haven't made it. They don't say, nice to meet you, because they might have met you already. So they say, good to see you. Yes, you know that thing they do. What does that mean?

Good to see you. What does that mean? You know, me and my friend, Dwayne kennedy uh we we uh we were working on a show in time we walked a lot and we would just walk up to people and go i'm hearing good things people be like because it is it's right there it's up it's up there with you hey man i'm hearing good things man yes good man good things actors yes yeah i have a a person i know and her boyfriend is a not a comic an actor that hasn't made it and he's brutal because all he talks about is like that this guy i don't like his choices like you can't you can't even watch a preview with him oh gosh

yeah like whatever happened to his career like bitch, you don't have a career. You don't have one. What are you saying? Are you shitting on this guy? Pay attention to you, and you'll have a busy, busy time. But it's not just that. It's like it's uncomfortable to be around them because that's all they care about is making it and acting. It's all they care about. They're not like balanced people that can just talk. True.

Yeah. I know some comics like that. Yes. When you're struggling, when you're in the struggle. Yeah. The struggle is a motherfucker because it's a mind fuck. And then also the pressure of that struggle overwhelms you. Yes.

And then when you actually do get a break, there's so much weight to it, you can't carry it. Can't carry it. Do you have anything now, do you look back at maybe like have you seen some comedians like because like when you're in that struggle you're not your best self right yeah so shit could happen for sure yeah have you have you like ever like made amends or anything like you know or just like forgiving people like quietly because you understand it now it's kind of like being a parent like before you're a parent you have you see the world one way then you become a parent yeah you see that you know it's like um yeah i talk about that a lot that i used to think of

people as being i meet a guy he's 42 oh he's always been 42 and then it's just this is who he is and i realized oh he was a baby he was yes he was a baby and then he went through all these years and here he is all fucked up and confused. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so I'm fascinated with that too. I'm a very forgiving person.

I forgive people as often as I can. Yeah. I don't think there's any, there's no benefit to holding a grudge. I agree. I agree with that. Especially in our business. We're in a wild business where people take chances. Right.

Wild people that take chances, like you got to cut them breaks. You got to cut them breaks. Yeah. And I love that you always embrace that. Like, you know who else embraces people being who they are? Debbie Allen is like that. Yeah?

Yeah, man. It's like people want to protect people like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. They kind of, like, walk the world, like, with no judgment. And I like being like that. Like, I love when people do fucked up shit.

I hope they don't do it to me. No, I'm fascinated. I'm like, I just want to know, yeah, man, whoa, and then what? You know what I mean? Like, I love when people do fucked up shit. I hope they don't do it to me. No, I'm fascinated. I'm like, I just want to know, yeah, man, whoa, and then what?

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not like, well, maybe you shouldn't. I'm like, no, yeah,

do that. See what happens. I like chaos. I do. I encourage it. I do. man, yeah,

yeah. But I also, I like people realizing that they fucked up and then talking about their fuck ups. I like that. But that's what makes,

that's, like I say, there's a difference between greatness and, you know, talented people. The people's a difference between greatness and talented people. The people that can embrace it, I think, transcend. I think it's just a powerful human quality to forgive people.

Humility. Humility is big, but also just being a nice person is so valuable. It's so valuable. I love hugging people, man. I love one of the things I love most about coming to the store, order the improv, is seeing all my friends. I love that. We're all in this weird business together.

But I've been told I'm too nice. I've been told I'm too nice. Who the fuck told you that? Some asshole. Well, it's because I haven't had a special and all that shit. That's bullshit. You're too nice, man. No, you haven't had a special because you concentrated on writing.

That's all it is. You're not too nice. Yeah. That's all bullshit. That's crazy talk. No, I was like, I got you. That's all it is. You're not too nice. Yeah. That's all bullshit. That's crazy talk. No, I was like, I got you. That's fucking crazy talk. That's shit I've been thinking.

People, when things aren't going well, assholes on the outside come up with solutions. You're too nice. I know what to do different. You need to start stealing. I'm like, right, right. I'm like, I'm too tall to steal, man. You need to fire your agent. Like, wow, he's been with me from the beginning.

People think that there's always some solution that they've got yes that's a dangerous thing when things aren't going well all you need to do is people yeah all you need to do is you're like listening people even people that are really good people come up with bad solutions oh yeah like my manager my own manager i've had four i i found my manager when i was an open mic-er. He found me when I was an open mic-er in Boston. I've had him ever since. But in the beginning, he wanted me to be clean. He's like, you got to be clean. You got to be clean.

Clean your act up. Get on TV. Clean your act up. But he let it go pretty quickly. But it's also because things aren't going well, right? You don't have shit going on. Nothing's happening. So people are like, hmm, how do we make it happen for you?

You got to be clean. You told me I got to dress up nice and be clean. Two pieces of terrible advice. Let me ask you, do you think there's still value in that? Why don't they have a late night talk show where comics can just do their actual act? It would have to be on the internet. The problem is all those goddamn people

you're talking about. Like the same reason why you can never have this fight companion or even this podcast on a network. There was too many people would interfere.

They would, you know, like I have a friend who's an executive and he actually talked to me about, you know, there's probably a lot of other things

you could do with this show. You know, you could do this and you could do, I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Stop. You're never gonna get a job here. I'm never gonna gonna you're not gonna come over to the wild side like this is

you can't handle this this is not you this is this is the internet is a different thing man the internet is a different thing and if you you involve the internet yeah and you try to bring the hollywood people over the they'll just fuck it up yeah they'll just ruin it yeah so if any kind of wild ass late night talk show you have comics sitting around they'll ruin that you'd have to bring that over here you have to bring it over to the dark side and just let people just get all you need is a conference table and some fucking cameras and internet connection boom you're on youtube i'm doing it that's all you need in context with owen smith that's why not man i'll be i'll be watching stuff so dude everyone every comic should have yeah a podcast just like every comic has a social media

it's really that simple to me i'm uh i'm getting off of that shit though social media i'm i'm gonna keep it but i ain't following nobody no no offense. It's very addictive. I unfollowed you this morning. Thank you. Because that's my new thing. I tell people to their face, yo, I followed you, then unfollowed you. It's very distracting. Yeah. It totally is.

And I'm like, God damn. Looking at pictures of my dog and stupid shit. Yeah. My dog's right here. I can just pet my fucker. Why am I doing this? It's a time waster yeah man

so uh I'm on it y'all can follow me Owen Smith for real whatever no for real man whatever I'm trying

yeah I'm not I'm not following nobody I'm trying to I'm gonna get rid of all my Twitter followers like if I know you

and I see you I'm gonna engage that way I'm only gonna post stuff that I feel is funny and fun or whatever. It's a good promotional tool. That's it. That's it. But you have to be worried about the addictive nature of social media.

It's very addictive. Yeah. It's very hard to, like, you could, when I take a shit in the morning, I'll go over my email first, see if it's any important. Like, see if there's anything funny on Instagram. Yeah. And then I'll, like, Lil Duval always makes me me laugh i go to his shit first he's the best he him and kyle dunnigan are the best follows on instagram it was funny i he's from the bahamas i was born in the bahamas my fuck is so funny man i'm so i sold the show to abc and i wrote it and uh they

were asking me like who do you want to star in it and I wanted Lil Duval to star in it and the whole network thing I was like plus I don't even know if he fucking with TV now because his music career is like he's doing so well

with performing live it would be a demotion you know what I mean he has planes yeah yeah he has two planes yeah I know I know

I know isn't it crazy hearing him talk about it but I just think he's so like you trust him you know what I'm saying like just think he's so, like, you trust him. You know what I'm saying? It's certain. When you see him, you know his goal is to be funny, and you just trust it.

Even though he hasn't, quote, unquote, been number one on the call sheet before, I was like, man, this dude would be. He would be murderous. This dude would be great. But it's too late. He's free already. He's free. They passed on the's free already they didn't they passed on the show so i didn't have to go do with the casting thing anyway but in the back of my mind

i was like man he would be a perfect if you had a show that was produced by people that you respect you yeah and like other comics and like really intelligent people that you trusted yeah that would be a different experience completely and it And it would be, it would be, it wouldn't even feel like work. Yeah. And it would have to be people whose lives didn't depend on the success of the show. Oh, that's so important. Yes.

Because you could feel that shit, man. Yes. Especially with notes and all of that. But again, like I say, I chose to look at it as a challenge. As to go, what is this?

Let me see how I can, you know, what, just, it's different. Well, it clearly benefits your stand-up writing because yeah you have this your stand-up you have you vary widely in your subjects and you also you you have this approach you have a you have a very comprehensive approach to subjects when you're you examine subjects well. And I think a lot of that comes from your writing and a lot of that comes from also dealing with network notes and dealing with executives. Like there's a benefit, but the benefit is done. You already got all the good parts of that.

Yeah, yeah. You got to break free of the tit. Got to break free, man. So there it is. Textowen.com. You could do so many different things, man. All right, I'm going to talk to you. You could do so many different things man all right i'm gonna do so many different things i'm gonna hit you up and if you want to do some gigs with me i got a bunch of gigs i'm announcing a giant tour tomorrow yay yeah hey we just announced it today yeah does this

come out tomorrow is this out today this will come out when does this come out tomorrow yeah tomorrow okay good so haha good tomorrow meaning today so i'm announcing that's great today yay oh man yes i want to Let's do some gigs Let's do it man I'd love to take you out I would love it man Do some arenas Yes

What's the biggest place You ever performed at Radio City Music Hall How many is that Russell Peters Maybe 6,000 Oh okay Straight up

And let me tell you The comedy store My training in the comedy store Prepared me for that Yeah Cause at the Run through I was like How am I to play this because it just goes up right when i was on stage the way it's set intimately it felt like the or really it felt like the or so from a

technical perspective i just had to stand there and trust the material and then when i would act out something it was so much more effective than the first instinct like i gotta work this stage oh yeah you know what i'm saying it's like if i was like a couple of you know just because of my build and my height i was trying to figure out what's the best way to like connect and some people like to pace yeah and pacing is fine but it's gotta be in you yes and and and sometimes I pace, but the more I know it, the stiller I can get. And then I can play. Now I'm playing. You know what I mean?

So it's just the work of it all. So when I did Radio City, I stood there, man, and destroyed that. It was fun as fuck like i love um arenas because there's no it's um you forget when the drinks are being bought in in the in the tabs are being dropped you don't have that like they're actually just yeah and you're like oh shit like it's just a different have you done one in the round yet not yet that's wild i can't wait that's weird you pace it around it's fun i'd be fun as fuck man like i just yeah man i get chills just thinking of like when I first started, a few auditoriums I did, then a few arenas. Not arenas.

Theaters. Theaters. I was like, oh shit, this is what I... Like this is... Like I'm that. Like I love that shit. Well, especially for your style of comedy too. Yeah.

Love it, man. You have comedy too that's got plenty of room to think about what you're saying yeah you know and that's what you in the theater you got to kind of slow things down a little bit because i remember i went to watch lewis black me and joey yes watch lewis black he was performing a night before i was okay and we were just we flew in early and joey was like let's go across the street because that was where the theater was. And so we got in. We sat down. And I realized that when he's in the – maybe this was in New Jersey. The theater didn't have the best sound.

Not that New Jersey has a bad sound. But when he was in the middle of his – he was killing. He had this big laugh. And then he would say a tagline, and I couldn't hear the tagline because everybody around me was laughing. And then I realized, like, oh, you've got to hold these taglines a little in a place like this because the the laughter is too loud because you actually hear people next to you going ha ha ha ha and you can't hear what the fuck he's saying unless the volume's so overwhelming like you gotta know and then on stage it's hard to realize that because there's the monitors and the monitors are you know you can hear yourself very loudly but you might not the people in the audience might not be able to hear it as clearly it is a different pacing thing i love it though man this is so

interesting about that is when you um what i like to do sometimes is look at what other acts come to that venue and a lot of times if it's like, if it's like, you know, like jazz ensembles or things where it's not like a lot of laughter, you know what I mean? Like in that space, you got to remember like it's 52 weeks in the year, maybe four of those weeks is us.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Every time it's like, it's dance, it's all these other things. Yeah. You know, doing this shit.

So yeah, that the, the place is even like what the fuck is all this noise like consistent at a rapid so yeah you do it bounces

and you gotta like just that's different it's different what's your thing that you do when people are laughing a lot you know what I'm saying like if they

if you got a lot of laughs you know some people like to do that fake laugh if I laugh it's cause I'm laughing no I know but I'm saying I don't have a fake laugh yeah I know what you're some people like to do that fake laugh if i laugh it's because i'm laughing no i know i don't have a fake laugh yeah i know what you're talking about the old school cast could take a puff yeah like what's your i don't know just in the moment man i stay in the moment

i try to stay in the moment but i definitely never give off a fake laugh yes if i'm laughing it's because i think it's funny in the moment. There's a grossness to fake laughs that I just can't tolerate. I see guys fake laugh, even good comics sometimes. I want to go, please stop doing that. Please stop. Because sometimes it's funny. Sometimes it really is funny. But if you're lying to me, you're pretending you think this is hysterical right now

when you said it 150 times in a row exactly the same way, and you're pretending like you just realized how funny it is. I had a tagline the other night that i never used before and right after i said i started cracking you up that's the best it came out of nowhere yeah because i realized like there's a i had a point in the middle of this bit and i said the point and they're like because it was so ridiculous yeah and it was also real like In the moment, I came up with it, I ad-libbed, I said it on the spot, and then I started laughing. I love that. Those are real laughs, but I don't hardly ever laugh along.

Unless I'm really, I might be real high. I'm real high. I'm real silly. Sometimes I'm just, most of the time I'm in the groove. I'm just thinking about what I'm doing. I'm just trying to do it my best. But there's times when I'm up there, I'm like, like man i can't believe i get to do this i can't believe it remember go back to thinking about the time when you were 19 you're watching chris and

tony and then think now you know you get to do it in the best comedy clubs in the world yeah and it's just the greatest job on earth it's nothing like it there's nothing like it it's and so that's bringing back to Malcolm Gladwell, man. Malcolm, you're crazy. We'll see you in these comedy streets, fam. Come on, Malcolm. Malcolm, I'll put you up on one of my nights. I really wanted to talk to him.

I want you to go on right after always. Yes, yes! Yeah, follow me, son. Or open. That might be even uglier. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, man. No warm up.

I was like, for real real ask my wife like i couldn't i can't i couldn't listen to him for a minute and that was my man because he had these podcasts when he was dissecting stuff and you know but he's a brilliant guy fantastic and sometimes brilliant people overestimate their perceptions they they overestimate their their ability to break something down yes i mean like i've had conversations with people about fighting that way where people say hey if anybody ever came up to me i would do this and then i would do that like they say that and like oh okay this is uh it's hard for me to hear i'm just gonna let you talk because really i want to just tackle you right now and choke your life

out of you wait i wasn't ready i wasn't ready yeah but people have this idea because a person moves in a way that's similar to the way that they can move. They think, I could do that. I lift weights. I'll fuck that guy up. They have these ideas. And they think, oh, he's out there talking. I'm a brilliant guy.

I'm smarter than them. I understand things. I write. I'm always performing because I'm always talking about this. Stand-up would be easy. I literally yelled. I said, Malcolm, what did I do to you? I think it's so personal.

Why are you attacking my thing, man? Before I criticize him, I'd have to hear his exact quote. Yeah, I got to send it to you. Have we found it? He was feeling saucy. It's him and another guy. He was talking about jobs that are really hard, and he picked stand-up comedy, and there's a couple of quotes.

That guy defended stand-up comedy very well, it seems like. But is this something that you- I couldn't figure out where exactly it was. it somebody else's it was a podcast they did somewhere like an interview okay it's like an hour so you saw it in quotes right right yeah can i see the quotes it wasn't very it wasn't very clear oh okay so but basically give me your synopsis of it then uh like he thought people were too drunk so it was really easy yes like they like there was the room was set up for them. They're coming to see them, so it's easier.

He just doesn't know. He's got a very singular... He must have been one or two stand-up shows. Well, he's right sometimes, though. He's right sometimes. We've all seen shows where people are laughing at bullshit. I didn't want to hear from him. Right. Well, he doesn't know.

If there was a show, and you went on right jessel neck went on and diaz maybe louis ck dropped in right dave chappelle did 10 minutes malcolm get up there good fucking luck not having a heart attack right right have fun man go go go but he's also right in that we've all seen mediocre thoughts get passed off and the audience laughs. There's certain clubs, I don't want to mention any names, but you can go to them any night of the week in Burbank or in North Hollywood. And you can see dog shit comedy and people are laughing. They're laughing and it's like real clunky, low rent. What if that's where he was?

It could be where he was. But I mean, there's a difference between talking about any sport, right? You could watch someone do it poorly on a playground, or you could watch someone do it exquisitely as a professional. And you go, oh, here it is. Gladwell stated, comedians deal with people in a tightly controlled setting i remember that he cannot imagine an easier set of circumstances for navigating a social situation than that of a stand-up comedian they go to vegas they go to the comedy cellar they control their environments oh man i was like this this is who what is this

article that's's shitting on it what's it from Malcolm Gladwell fails stand-up comedy 101 was the person who wrote it does have their name anywhere really it's the guy is the dot-com Nathan Tim old calm Nathan Is Nathan a comic? Yeah, well, he's right. Yeah. Nathan's right. Yeah, I mean, Malcolm's right in a sense. He's right in a sense.

What he doesn't understand is there's a mind wrestling that's going on before you actually go and do that. And to sort of diminish the difficulty of that, it just shows that you haven't done it. That's what it felt like. Yeah. And so I was like, damn, I can't listen to this dude. Because I couldn't, I couldn't, because he said it in the same exact voice he says everything else in. So when he's breaking down something that I really want to hear him dissect. He's so brilliant in so many different ways.

I couldn't shake it. I was like, ah, fuck it. Yeah. That 10,000 hour shit. Yeah. He wrote Outliers, right? That's him,'s him right yes yeah that that book is amazing when it talks about the beatles and how the the beat like people think the beatles came out of nowhere those motherfuckers did thousands and thousands of shows that's what's up it's just numbers yeah it's numbers and

concentration and focus and just that being what you really want. Yeah. You know, it's not just numbers. It's numbers of like passion, numbers of focus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's wrong. He's wrong, but I get it. I get why he thinks that. It is a tightly controlled environment,

but it's so easy to bomb in that tightly controlled environment. He has no idea. That's what I'm saying. That's an A room. Some rooms are tightly controlled environments, but starting, we didn't some rooms are tightly controlled environments but starting we didn't always perform in tightly controlled environments bowling alleys oh yeah backyards bars um yeah yeah like there's so many other spots where you also have to make comedy happen

yeah and those spaces where there's a big moat between you and the audience I did a jack-and-jill strip club Jack and Jill strip club in Woonsocket, Rhode Island There was a guy named Brian Deary he used to book these gigs I think still around he used to book these gigs in Rhode Island and some of them were great But occasionally they were terrible and this one as far as I know I think I was the only I think I was a one and done I think I think they killed it after either because there was only like four people in the crowd and i went up and it was a guy and a girl jack and jill strip club was a there was an old concept that didn't really take off

where couples would go and a guy would go and strip and the girl would go and strip and they both looked like their parents drank while they were in the room they both they both had terrible tattoos. This guy had terrible tattoos, and he had them covered with bandanas. So he had bandanas around his arm, and you could see the shitty tattoo poking out of the bottom. And he was built goofy. He was built like a guy who lifts weights, but he drinks every night. You know what I mean?

Right. Strong pot-bellied dude. He wasn't like if you go to Vegas and you see those, like, the men from Down Under, they're all six pack looking rips. There was nothing like that with him or her. They were both disgusting. They were both disgusting. And I'd like to say I bombed.

But bombing, usually, you hear some noise. Right. Like, people are mad at you. Right. You suck. Poo. They were not even recognizing that I was talking oh my god so i got off stage and there was like a little pool table in the back and there was a dude who just happened

to be in town because his family lived there because it was around the holidays and his family lived in rhode island and he just wanted to get out of the house so he came to this local bar and and he and he goes hey what the fuck is this place and i go what are you doing here and he goes i'm just here my fucking family lives around here and i just came here because there's nowhere else to go what the fuck is this place this is so strange and he and i had a game of pool and we were laughing that's hilarious yeah i'll never forget it it was so strange it was so strange that's not a controlled environment those gigs gigs, those gigs season you, though. Yes. You develop a crust. Yes.

A layer of protection where you could go up in front of those people. Yes. And you also know when you get offered those gigs what it's going to be like. Yeah. Just by the tone. I mean, it's going to be great. It's always packed. All right.

Okay. All right. Where is it again? Sure. But there was some that were always packed. There were some gigs that I'd get old school school, shitty bar gigs that were fun, man. Yeah. They were wild.

They made me. Because they fed me. Right. Those gigs fed me when I was poor. But every situation is different. Like, he basically saw, like, the Lakers of, you know, stand-up. Right. You know what I mean?

And he thinks it looks easy because they make it look easy. Yeah. He falls into that trap. That's all for's all right yeah my wife is calling me that's like thinking that someone's making something think thinking something's easy because someone's a master yes like like did you ever see that video where uh michael jordan came out of retirement that didn't come out of retirement he had retired But there was a player who had been talking shit about him. Oh, yeah. You saw that?

Oh, yeah. And when Mike came back, he... They played one-on-one. They played one-on-one. And he just destroyed them. He Mike served them. But he did it like laughing.

Yes. And joking. He made it look so easy. And then the guy realized like, oh, oh, there's levels. I do that. I do that sometimes. Because you know what else happens out here?

We'll be working stuff out. Yes. Working stuff out. So I might not, I'm not in the gear that I would be in. Of course. Because I'm figuring it out. And this is a safe space to try to figure it out. So you might see some people like, you know, whatever.

He struggled after me. I'll be like, all right right put me in front of you and then i would just do your best shit and i and i and i will make sure i could see their face like while i'm doing it they were like oh shit you know what i mean that taking the chances look chris rock does that better than anybody yeah i've seen chris rock go on after people killed running killed he gets this giant round of applause and he goes relax relax this shit ain't gonna be funny yeah this shit is not gonna be that funny i'm gonna tell you right now there's all new shit i'm working out it ain't that good yeah and he'll walk around and joke and laugh and says it's not that good and he'll like bring everybody down calm them down and then purposely fuck around

damon wayans used to do that too he's so funny dam Damon Wayans, he's one of the unheralded greats. He's doing it again. Yeah, he is doing it again, but he's also doing sitcoms again too. Oh yeah, he shows them. Yeah, he was going to do, we had actually talked about doing a podcast. Oh yeah? Yeah. Oh no, I was there that night.

Remember? Yeah, but then he's like, he doesn't want to say anything crazy. Oh, because he's got a show. Netflix stuff. Network stuff. Smoke and read, get some drinks going some ice starts clinking start talking shit oh he's got some stories damn demons look he had a joke about magic johnson way back in the eight in the in the days um where uh when magic went

back to playing when he had hiv i'll never forget this who's he was like everybody was afraid to cover magic he said except for dennis robman dennis robbins like motherfucker i fuck madonna i'll spit in your mouth and accelerate your symptoms to this day that's one of the best jokes i ever heard i'll spit in your mouth His motherfucker I fucked Madonna Man Yo You don't realize

How complete Damon is man He's an animal I got to witness Like the stuff he says Between the lines Is so complete You know what I mean He's so fucking good

He should be recognized As one of the greatest Of all time But he went and did a bunch of TV shows. And while he was doing those TV shows, he did clubs and he fucked around a little bit like that, but he didn't dedicate to it the same way maybe Cat Williams did or some other guys did that became huge and had a bunch of big time specials in that era. But he still got it. He could still do it right now. specials in that era but he's always got it me though yeah he could still do it right now damon if he wanted to go on tour and start hitting theaters and start doing a netflix special he would blow people away destroy he was one of the people that showed me it was it was okay to

be tall and funny oh that's hilarious you know what i mean like we've talked about this yeah yeah yeah that's true right god damn he's so and he's and was cool. He was cool. But then he could get goofy. He was silly. Man. He was silly. But God damn, he was a great writer. Yeah. Great writer, great performer.

And part of one of the great, look, there's two greatest sketch. Well, there's a couple other ones that are, but for pound for pound funny. There's In Living Color and number one is Chappelle's Show. Chappelle's Show is number one because it only really lasted two years. Right. And still to this day has some of the most legendary sketches

of all time Clayton Bixby one of the most legendary sketches of all time all the Rick James shit oh my god legendary

legendary but in Living Color in that era oh my god that era that was the show for that era and Damon was a giant

part of that and Kenan it was stuff you had to see. Yeah. You had to race home to see. You couldn't, yeah. But Damon somewhere along the line, look, the world was a different place back then, but he had decided that he was going to do movies.

Remember he was in The Last Boy Scout with Bruce Willis? Yeah. He was a movie star. Yeah. He was doing action movies. Yeah. You know, and then he got that sitcom. He did that sitcom for a long time.

Yeah. The problem with sitcoms is they give you that juicy check every week oh if you're a famous guy who's the lead of a sitcom like guys like kevin james you never have to work again ever ever for life you get that juicy check that juicy the show went for six years check like oh boy man oh boy that's the you don't have to do nothing yeah it's a trap it's a trap for someone who's a great comic yeah because at the end of the day it's never going to be as good as doing stand-up it's never going to feel as good there's a thing about when it pop there's a thing about when when you hear a dude pop in the in the main room like you're in the back green room when you hear like you open the door and lean in like what's going on what's he doing what's he doing that's

my favorite that's my in my professional life yeah out of all the things i've done whether it's a usc or podcasts or tv shows that the pop of someone murdering at a club where you're hanging out and you watch someone just destroying joey diaz did this bit about terry cruz that they cut out of his net special What? It was too risky for the internet It was too crazy Netflix was like fuck you Because it was a Me Too thing But it was basically saying

It was basically mocking Terry Crews Was Terry Crews threatened? Because he's a goddamn fucking super athlete Terry Crews is a massive man I mean the idea that some agent touching his dick was actually terrifying it's so ridiculous but joey diaz had this bit about you shouldn't have done that underwear commercial you're bouncing your titties with that giant fucking hog i'm not doing it any justice he doesn't do it anymore unfortunately

but that bit me and and and santino we were in the back of the OR. Literally, we couldn't stay in the chair. We were on the ground. We were just clinging to the table, just hanging on. And Joey's screaming and his sweat's flying off of him and he's beet red. Those are my favorite moments in life when someone hits those pops. You don't get those pops when you do a sitcom. You get a lot of money.

You get everybody making you bagels. It's wonderful. You got a parking spot. But it's a velvet prison. Do you think your insecurity rises when you are being coddled and treated like that? Mine does. Yeah, I was wondering. Yeah, mine does.

I got fortunate in that when I did Fear Factor, I never stopped doing stand--up and never stopped okay i was always at the store always i was scared because i had fucked up during news radio when i was on news radio i i went for a long stretch where i was barely doing stand-up because we were long hours when a sitcom is first getting trying to figure it out it's like 12 hour days and it's long i would do sets but i wasn't writing any new material and then i had a writer one of the writers and one of the producers came to see me and i ate shit whoo bombed hard in the main room like a late show on a friday night uh friday or saturday i ate shit yeah i tanked i was so nerd and i see them they were real close to like fourth row and like oh my, oh, my God. This is embarrassing.

And there was only like maybe 30 people in the whole crowd. It was a tiny crowd. Ray Romano's in the back like, this is who you hired? He was already killing it with Everybody Loves Raymond by then. He was happy. And Ray was a friend of mine. Still is. But I was happy that I didn't take his job.

I took the job of the dude who took his job. Okay. Because for me, it was like okay That's hilarious This is okay But when When I did that I realized Okay I'm fucking off here

I'm just doing this sitcom And I'm not I'm losing the thing that I love I'm not good anymore Like I sucked Yeah And then a year later I wound up doing my Warner Brothers special

My Warner Brothers CD I really got my shit together again. I really did. I started doing multiple sets around town. I started writing a lot more. I started really taking it seriously. Because I realized, like, you can't do that. You can't fall apart.

You can't just start bombing. Nah, man. Nah, man. But you get soft, man. You can get soft. And they were making me soft, too. Like, one of the producers was like, why are you still doing stand-up? You're an actor now.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Ew. Ew yeah but that's what everybody wanted even seinfeld took time off he did he did seinfeld then stopped doing stand-up yeah a lot of people got brought into that trap yeah you know it's hard it's hard to get hired as a writer too because it's almost i'm learning it's almost like the difference between improv cats and stand up cats right

so if you're a writer if that's what you do you write then they may feel they may have a certain bias or feel a certain type of way towards a comic that writes

and it's like oh okay it's like you deal with it everywhere but because you can always leave always and you always have and you have you basically you're sitting in a room and you got you got two jobs you know what i'm saying so it's like we got this job but i'm also gonna do this other job yeah like don't nobody want to be nobody with one job wants

to sit next to somebody with two jobs i totally get it you know what i mean especially with comedy because their comedy is kind of unproven. Yeah. Like they think they're funny. Right. But how do you know you're funny? How do you really know? I've always wondered that.

I was like, that's a courageous thing to invest. That is so courageous, right? You're a comedy writer and you don't even perform. Like how do you know if it's funny? Like who told you you're funny? I know. Who told you? Are you sure?

Malcolm Gladwell? Are you sure? No, because I really want to listen to him again. So I need, I need, I need, we need to talk, man. He's right and he's wrong. Because I want to support him. If he was here right now, I'm sure he would see our perspectives. Right.

And then I could listen to him again because I miss it. He's right, though. In certain ways, he's right. It's a very controlled environment. But that still doesn't make it easy. Based on what he saw. But you know what else? I read an article by another guy.

Here's the thing that's happening, too. People who aren't that strong in comedy are writing articles about comedy. You know what I mean? Like, in national things. Who wrote this? It was like, I've seen him. He's not. What?

She's terrible. Why are they speaking for us? Yeah. And you're like, comedians are not a monolith. You're like, oh. I read this article this woman wrote about men not being funny. And I've seen her act talking about forcing men to eat her pussy. And it's one of the worst bits I've ever seen in my life.

I'm like, this is hilarious. But yet she was able to write that thing on that platform. Yes. And it's like an amazing thing that's happening like everybody's a pundit everybody's got well if there's money to be made in clicks you know that's what it is if you can especially if you're writing an article like shitting on someone who's done something wrong like louis ck or or someone else or aziz ansari someone who's gotten in trouble right and you go after them and they know that like that's why the pile on happens because it gets people attention it's a very profitable lucrative

venture yeah yeah but yeah there's a lot of people writing stories or articles about comedy where they're they're dismissive they don't understand they don't really truly understand what they're talking about yeah it's like so many gaps. You're like, whoa, what's this? And, yeah, all that stuff annoys me. And I don't carry it much, but it was so funny because when I sat here, I was like, oh, yeah, Malcolm Gladwell sat here. I'm going to tell you about him. Jerry Seinfeld did something like that one time, too. He was on, like,bo talking to bob costas about comedy i'm like

why is this happening and he said and jerry said i don't know who the next people are i mean these young comedians don't study and i took great offense they don't study he said they don't study what does that mean he said he said they don't know they don't study the craft you know or they don't know you know i, I guess who, who came before them or whatever. Generalizations like that are so crazy to say. So here's the,

so, so I'm at Hermosa Beach Comedy Magic Club and Jimmy Brogan, who I call like the, the comic whisperer,

like, he goes, you know, Jerry's performing, you want to come, come down? Of course. So I go watch Jerry perform

and then he invites me in the green room and when I see Jerry, I couldn't help myself. I go, hey man, and then he invites me in the green room. And when I see Jerry, I couldn't help myself. I go, hey, man, you can't be going on TV saying comedians don't study. He goes, I know you. Hey, man, whatever, man, because I study. You can't do that.

You're dismissing a whole generation, people listening to you. He goes, all right, man, I'm fine. You want a cigar? Have a seat. So then I sit down, and I look to my left. It's Jay Leno. It's like Kevin Nealon. It's like all these heavy hitters.

But I just saw him and just had to put it. Hey, yo, what are you doing? Yeah. No, you're right. But sometimes people say things and they're just talking. I don't even know if they have a point. They're just hoping they could formulate it as they're talking. Right.

But I can't let it go. I'm like, oh, you got to find this guy. Right. You're right. And he was right, i can't let it go i'm like i gotta find this guy right you're right and he was right too to let it go to agree with you he was so chill he was like all right man you want a cigar and i said that that was easy mark norman who's a friend of mine does gigs with him he says he's great he said jerry's a great guy i believe it man yeah and he just well he still is doing it and he's got 500 million dollars in the bank and he's still doing it dude he's been doing it well forever

since the 80s but he's always working on it holding it he like still does it he still does it like legitimately

he's basically he's one of those guys that did what you're telling me to do you gotta you gotta trust it all the way and you just gotta

just do it cause when you say how do I write some days when all I do is write comedy I go god damn why don't I do this all the time

because I can take my bits so yes you know and it's the best you know how you said that you're consistently inconsistent

yeah oh yeah that's a hallmark of a funny person it's a strange thing like most comics are we're very impulsive crazy people right you know you know we don't

necessarily have discipline you know i'm just very fortunate that i was involved in something else before comedy that required discipline because your fucking physical health is on the line like i had to have discipline i was gonna get my brains kicked in so like that transfer it over to stand up but it's so easy to fuck off, man. When I come home from the comedy store and it's late at night, a lot of times I just want to go to sleep. I don't want to do anything.

I want to watch TV. I want to fuck off, but I sit in front of that goddamn laptop. I sit in front of that laptop. I'll spark a joint. I'll go outside. I'll spark a joint. That's the best punch.

Stare at the sky. Come back inside and stare at that laptop and then I'll start writing. And I'll force myself. I'll say, I'm going to do one hour. Maybe I'll do more than one hour, but I'm definitely going to do one hour. And I set a timer. That's the best punch up.

Did I ever tell you my Mitch Hedberg story? Which one? I did Acid with him. Whoa. When I was 26. That's a great story. Yeah, man. So me and Mitch met at the Chicago Comedy Festival.

And we clicked, right? And we walk around. I was living in Chicago at the time. And we clicked, right? And we walk around. I was living in Chicago at the time. And we walked around. He was like, yo, oh, I'm about to be rich, man. He had just signed this deal or whatever in Montreal. I couldn't get Montreal to look at me. But he had just crushed in Montreal.

And he goes, I'm about to be rich, man. And he pulls out this Velcro wallet. It was, and he goes, you see this ring? I live in Seattle. I used to pawn this ring so I could eat. And then I would go eat and get a gig and then buy it back. I won't have to do that no more. So he just sounds some big deal. So he needed a shirt for his HBO half hour special, the one where he's sitting on the steps. And so I helped him pick out that shirt

and then i had a gig in minnesota i like after the festival he goes can i ride with you so we road trip to minnesota because he was from saint paul i spent a night in his in his home and that's when i learned he was like a chef and all that stuff and so we really clicked and we bump into each other on the road we were in houston and uh he, when I decided I wanted to do comedy, I hit acid. I took a hit of acid. I got my notebook, and everything I saw, I wrote. And I was like, I don't want to be funny like that. So I did acid with him.

And we were both in this hotel room. It was a woman who was the dealer, and she came over in the hotel room. And the woman, it was a woman who was the dealer. And she came over and, you know, in the hotel room. And that's when I learned where cartoons come from. Like everything I saw was like a fucking cartoon. And I was tripping, man.

And he videotaped me tripping. And I'm going, why is a, a, why is B, B, why is the letter green? Who said,

who said the letter? And I was doing it. He's videotaping me and he literally goes I clearly remember going you should do this on stage take me some more

and I go stage stage stage like I'm like scatting man right going

and I'm seeing all this thing and then like I started I was on this whole thing like all I kept thinking about was pussy right and I saw and I was on this whole thing. All I kept thinking about was pussy, right? And I was dating this girl. And this is back when you use a calling card. And I only knew two numbers by heart, my mom's number and hers.

And I was like, I pray that I'm calling the girl. As I was talking to her on the phone, and I was on the bed, and I was like, I want your pussy. Like all that shit. She said, are you high you know just fucking up the whole thing and I go yeah don't don't do anything don't jump and I was like why are you putting that shit in my head like cause whatever

she saw I could see like I could physically see it and then I look over in the bed next to me and Mitch is like fucking the girl that bought the thing and I'm like oh shit I'm in the or next to me and Mitch is like fucking the girl that bought the thing and I'm like oh shit I'm in the orgy

but not really like I'm on the phone he's actually doing it I'm virtual reality and then like my body started shaking and the whole shit

like left my my body and so that's how like you know that was my my experience I never did it again never desired to do it again

but I did it with Mitch and it was like it was like this crazy thing and uh so we used to that was my experience. I never did it again, never desired to do it again, but I did it with Mitch. And it was like, it was like this crazy thing. And so we used to, we would do colleges separate of one another and we would leave each other notes and shit,

you know. And he would be like, kill it, man, or whatever. And one time I was doing some college in butt fuck Pennsylvania. No, no,

it wasn't butt fuck, but it was somewhere in Pennsylvania. He had just done, and that's when I learned about him passing. Like, I was literally reading his note when I heard about the heroin shit. Oh, man. So you were reading the note that he wrote to you? That he wrote me when the news broke, like, did you hear about Mitch? And it was like, fuck. Yeah, man, yeah, man, yeah, man. Me and Stan Hope were on the set. Oh, I love him, man. When the news broke Like did you hear about Mitch And it was like Fuck Yeah man

Yeah man Yeah man Me and Stan Hope Were on the set Oh I love him man We were That's right Y'all did the show together

Yeah when we found out That he was I was at his wedding Did you go to his wedding No The first one I just happened to be in Vegas Whatever happened in Vegas

I was in that one I was there I was in it This was like many years ago Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Go ahead I told him what are you doing Yeah yeah Vegas. I was in that one. I was there. I was in it. This was like many years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Go ahead. Go ahead. I told him, what are you doing? Yeah. I didn't know I could say that to him. I think I was in Vegas independent. I was like, but we were cool. So I was there like, this is crazy.

Yeah. Right after he was married, something happened where his girlfriend mouthed up to a cop and they bounced her head off the hood and arrested her. Jesus, bro. Yeah. off her mouth up to a cop and they bounced her head off the hood and arrested her like jesus bro yeah um anyway um we found out that mitch had been brought to the hospital and they thought he was going to lose his leg because he'd been shooting into this one same area and he got gang green i was like god damn and then he got free of that and and he healed up but he went right back to it he would not you

know he didn't have any desire to kick heroin it's really interesting like I'm not and they call me the naive detective like I never knew that he did that because whenever I saw him we were working out he would always go to the gym he was mad competitive like he would run the treadmill really yeah he was like he was competitive like he would he'd like me to open for him because he liked to work like he was like he didn't want me to hold back he was like go man like i just that's the side that i saw of him and then when he had to deal with the show and all of that shit he would do material about it because it's it's such a different experience than from what he is you

know dealing with the notes of it all and all that shit he was like yo i pitched an idea i wanted to do this idea and it became like yeah the dream is not the reality yeah that you know but the dream his dream was his stand-up to this day i'll still like I like to listen to his stand-up when I'm on my way to the airport. Because it's stressful. But his stand-up was so silly. So silly. So silly. One of my favorite jokes is his banana joke.

Somebody asked me, do you want a frozen banana? I said, no, but I want a regular banana later. So, yes. Yes. Like that. He had so much of that that was just i just enjoyed that it was very silly and i didn't you know i don't i don't know what when he got into the heroin i don't know when but yeah i never knew it's so crazy like i mean i knew he did his thing but i i think people like people just never did that shit in front of me. Right.

No one ever did it in front of me either, but I knew they were doing it. I had a buddy of mine in New York that died from it. Wow. He was snorting it. Shit. Yeah, but he got into pills and a lot of this. That's what a lot of times they find out about oxys. Yeah.

They snort pills. It's just opioids. It's just, I mean, that crisis is something that just swept through the entire world i mean so many people are dying from that shit yeah man it's i've never done it but i did i did get a morphine drip once when i had my knee fixed and you feel great he was like i get it kept hitting that button i was oh. You could hit the button every time you wanted some morphine. Oh, that's what I hear. It's a button. It's so simple.

And I just was like, wow. Wow. It just made you feel like the world was filled with love just caressing you. Everything was love. Like a womb feeling. Yeah, man. You're protected. You're safe.

You're going to be okay. Amazing. Which makes sense that a lot of musicians and a lot of people wanted that because so many people that are really super creative're they're kind of in pain a lot of those people are like they're like when you when you think of uh nirvana you think of kurt cobain the screaming all that like there's that's coming from a place of pain right yeah and then that dude would go off and do heroin well i'm glad you're not doing heroin owen nah fam i was always you know you know um lenny bias passing of um cocaine overdose scared me from doing anything

because um he was all muscle yeah and i was like if cocaine could take him down i don't stand a chance like i've never had a six pack. This dude, amazing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, super athlete. When that happened,

like, that's, my brain was like, oh, that shit ain't for me. And so, weed I do. I did mushrooms once,

shit my pants. On this dude's white couch. Oh no! I secretly think I never liked that guy He was like He was like an asshole to me But I just

Purpose just Just shit on his Dumb white couch White carpet Ugh And I was like Alright man See ya

Just We gotta wrap this up man It's three o'clock Text Owen.com Text Owen.com We'll be at the improv together Wednesday night For the 1030 show Yes OwenSmith.com Is that your website? OwenSmithLive.com Text Owen.com We'll be at the improv together Wednesday night For the 1030 show

Yes OwenSmith.com Is that your website? OwenSmithLive.com OwenSmithLive.com Social media Owen Smith for real But most importantly

Go to TextOwen.com And I'll send you Break his phone Try to break my phone Break that shit Bye everybody Bye Yeah. Oh, my God.