The Joe Rogan Experience - #1436 - Adam Curry

Episode Date: March 4, 2020

Adam Curry is a podcaster, announcer, internet entrepreneur and media personality, known for his stint as VJ on MTV and being one of the first celebrities personally to create and administer Web sites. Check out his podcast "No Agenda" on Spotify with new shows available every Sunday and Thursday.

We sparked one up on New Year's Eve. We filled up that hole. Oh, the actual real rolling paper that came with Big Bamboo? That was the first time I really went out. We're live right now, so we'll just let everybody know we're talking about Cheech and Chong's album, Big Bamboo. It actually came with a real rolling paper. Yeah, huge. I think it was across the double album.

Dude, you have a flip phone. I do. Respect. I do. You stepped out. OTG, brother. Yeah, you figured it out phone. I do. I do. I do. You stepped out. OTG, brother. Yeah, you figured it out. Create less data.

Yeah. That's my motto. Is that what it is? Yeah. Well, two things. One, your phone is always fucking with you. Yeah. It's notifying and I just didn't want to be a part of that anymore.

I wanted to be a little more connected to life outside. You can still call people. Well, this is actually a new flip phone from T-Mobile, Alcatel. And it has KaiOS, so it's not really a trackable OS, although Google put an investment into it. Oh, you're serious about this? Oh, I'm very serious about it. Oh, yeah. So all the apps are all tracking you.

They're all doing all kinds of shit. But initially, really just to not be, you know, a slave to this thing. Yeah. And the further I got into it, the more I liked it. And you don't really need it. Now, I have a device with me that's off. This works as a hotspot. So I can turn it into a hotspot if I really, really, really needed to do something.

But what do you need? Right. Text, phone call. Right. And if there's something that I really need to do something. But what do you need? Right. Text, phone call. Right. And if there's something that I really need to look up, you just turn around and say, hey, can someone Google this for me? And they do it. There's always someone around.

Are you texting on that thing? Yeah. Yeah. Do you T9? Is that what you're doing? They have a, it's like a T9. It's a little bit better. It's their version of predictive texting.

Yeah. I really am serious about it well you should be yeah everyone should be yeah the problem i mean we have all this cool shit all this great technology but the business model fucked us all i mean six years ago i had the first amazon echo i'm like this is groundbreaking uh dvorak my co-host he was laughing at me he's like why would you bring a spy device into your house look i'm just testing this out. If it had an Apple logo on it, everyone would be losing their shit right now, but it didn't. And I loved it.

Hooked it up to the light. Had all that stuff going. And then as I started to understand what it was really doing and what it's really communicating, all these things, right down to like your Roku remote, you pick that up, it's communicating with home base. So all this stuff, I got rid of all of it. Just got rid of it. I was listening to one of Sam Harris' podcasts, and he was talking with someone that said, and they had a really great quote, that we didn't realize that our data was something valuable.

Right. We didn't realize it was a commodity, and it was being sold, not just a commodity that's kind of valuable, but insanely valuable. Extremely extremely yeah that's what where facebook makes all their money that's where google makes all their money everybody yeah everybody make it from your data and you never really understood what you were doing when you signed off to give that data away when you signed the terms of agreements and you're like yeah yeah yeah whatever and nobody reads through that shit you know what's even more egregious is um there's a company called plaid p-l-a-i-d and just sold the visa for i think four or five billion dollars and it's the um the financial back end

or kind of like a bridge between all these apps that can do stuff with your bank account and your bank account. So if you have an app like Venmo or, ah, shit, name any payment app. Cash app. I didn't want to disparage anyone who might be advertising on your show. It doesn't matter. It's okay. Cash app, too. PayPal. Does PayPal do it?

PayPal has their own system. But what you do is you sign up and you literally give this app your username and log into your bank account. Instead of an API or some kind of programming interface, it just lets the app talk to your bank account and put money in, take it out. It can do anything. In fact, it is just like screen scraping. It can go through anything that's connected to your bank account, it can look at, they do and and credit karma another great a great example of it and they are just sucking out all of your information when you pay your bills who you pay first why you know if if you have you know what your pattern is of uh

of credit card payment moving stuff around so you think you're just using it as a as a utility but they're tracking your fucking life dude you're you're really concerned about this how am i well everybody will get the world they deserve you know so i'm trying to protect myself and people i love also you know the drone can't target me that easily with this you know so protecting you joe thank you it seems somewhat inevitable right that this connection that we have to technology gets deeper and deeper into our lives. But what disturbs me is that there are these giant corporations that are not just profiting off of our connection, but then they're using that money and that influence to affect a lot of things in our culture. Well, they're enslaving you.

So Credit Karma is a great example, which also just sold for $7 billion. It was literally changing your behavior to get a higher credit score. And this credit score isn't really even an official credit score. It's the one that they kind of made up. So they'll say, pay your utilities on time. Then we'll raise your credit score. Your credit score is higher. Now we can lend you this money. You see, so they're training people to do certain things like the progressive app for insurance. It's training you to drive in a quote unquote responsible manner because you get discounts if you don't brake too hard, if you're not accelerating, if you're not breaking speed limits, etc. Is it hooked up to the GPS?

Oh, yeah. So it knows your speeds and everything that's monitoring it? Everything. You're breaking velocity. All of that shit oh yeah so they take that into consideration every month when that's the whole point the point is to train the user to be a good fiscally good person whatever that means just because you want to save some money well of course everyone does that and you're going to be you're going to be forced into it. Like I just got health insurance, new health insurance. And they're, oh, download the app.

And if you download the app, we'll give you a break. Why? Because they're going to tell me to do things. This app is saying, you know, now it's small things, but it'll start telling you stand up, you know, move around. And if you follow it, if you follow it, then you'll get a discount. So we're really, really becoming enslaved that way. That is definitely a way to look at it. That's the business model.

Yeah. And it gets more and more immersive. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't know the Progressives app does that. All of them do, Joe. All of them do. The insurance company apps, yeah.

That makes sense. I mean, that would be the best way to figure out if you're actually a good driver or if you're just some dickhead who gets lucky well yeah i mean that's kind of the the marketing it's like you know if you're a good guy don't worry about it but they keep pushing they keep pushing you know they'll just keep telling you and you don't have to have the app active for that to be tracked or monitored that was one of the grossest arguments i heard after the whole Snowden thing. Like, what do you care if you're not breaking the law? That's changing a little bit.

I have a 29-year-old daughter, and she definitely had that mindset, and her friends did. It's changing. Now it's like, okay, we totally get it. They're tracking all of our shit. So we might not use this, or we'll leave the phone at home. There's a little bit of that creeping in. But in general, it's like crack. How can you do with it?

It's not easy. I mean, this phone, it's sometimes like, ah, I could, but no. And I just have to stand back and go, do I really need to have this information right at this very moment? Do I really need to do this? And typically, no. Yeah. When I feel any sort of anxiety or boredom i just grab the phone it's just instantly my little my little soothing blanket or my little

teething thing absolutely it's my little binky and i play a game with myself you know i'll give myself points as i'm driving around like person walking on the street, holding the phone in their hand, one point. You don't need to actually hold the phone in your hand. And women, holy crap, they got two phones sometimes with a little button plug so it doesn't fall off. They got their bag, maybe they got their kid or a stroller. And it's a pop, pop, pop. They're doing all, and just, they're all over the place all the time. So it's one point for just holding it. Two, if you're walking and doing something i see a lot of that how many points if you have a kid and you're walking and looking at your phone that seems like there'll be a bonus it's the if you're in the car 10 points if you're walking with your kid on the phone it's five points and you can hit 100 within five

minutes it's it's crazy it's zombies yeah when you start to really pay attention to it when you're above people have a truck and i want to look down from my truck. You can see people texting. And it's stunning how many people are on the highway texting at the same time. I got rear-ended with my truck, say, maybe two months ago in Austin, right after a stoplight. And I was in the left-hand lane. I was going to turn left. Bam! Full speed. It was going to turn left. Bam!

Full speed. It was maybe 30, 35 miles an hour. The girl's airbags deployed. She's like, and I was in the truck. I'm like, check everyone okay? I get out, and the whole front end is destroyed. She's dazed. I'm like, so I'm trying to pry the door open.

And, yep, there I see the phone on the floor still open yeah and then her excuse was well my break didn't work okay i gotta go my break didn't work does that ever happened my breaks didn't i got rear-ended the same thing there was a slowdown on the right lane and some some guy plowed right into me and i asked the cops i said you know oh this is five times five times a day yeah i'm sure it's crazy yeah it's it's weird that that sort of snuck up on us, that there's this thing that's incredibly addictive. I was with my family this past weekend in Dallas, and we were at this event,

and as we're walking through this crowd, I'm like, look how many people are on their phones. This is crazy. Like, everyone. It was just, you're going through the crowd of this store, and everyone is just looking at their phone. It it's like a zombie movie they don't know they're zombies truly is a zombie apocalypse yeah truly yeah in the weirdest way i mean it gives you a little bit of reward every now and then someone has a funny meme and like that's that's what

silicon valley figured out is that the pavlov response and all the brain impulses you get from a like or a retweet or whatever it is, or even just something, blip, oh, and we have different sounds, bling, plong, all this stuff. Before we go any further, we should give you credit. You're the reason why all this started. You are the original podfather, the legitimate one. There's a lot of people claiming that. Yeah. You're the guy who made the very first podcast. You even came up with the name podfather, the legitimate one. There's a lot of people claiming that. You're the guy who made the very first podcast. You even came up with the name of it, right? I didn't come up with the name.

Who came up with the name of it? Well, let me go back to the beginning because actually the technology of podcasting was invented in 2000. So before anyone was podcasting, before there was an iPod, interestingly. I was living in Amsterdam at the time. there was an iPod, interestingly. I was living in Amsterdam at the time, and I was working with Dave Weiner, who really invented blogging, and he had created this RSS syndication format. And he had software where you could blog, and then an aggregator, kind of like Google Reader at the time, and you could read blogs. It was kind of like a two-way communication thing. It was interesting, and a lot of people starting to use it

And in amsterdam, they had cable modems rolled out everywhere and cable modems was sold at the time as always on internet It wasn't fast. It was just fucking on you didn't have to dial in which was oh my god This is great. You know, this was a huge improvement. You have to kick someone off the phone line all of that um, so the the um sorry the um the the experience of multimedia was shit like you wanted to hear a song or play a video it was like click wait wait wait download wait you know it would probably download and then open up a some kind of player and then it was not an experience. There was nothing there that made sense. And I always wanted to broadcast on the internet.

That's always been my thing from the moment I saw it. So I came up with this concept of the last yard. So what if you had a little thing running on your computer in the background that would know if there's something you wanted? Let's just forget the how it knows part. know if there's something you wanted. Let's just forget the how it knows part. It would download it and would tell you that there was something new when it already had it on its local hard drive. So you remove the whole wait experience because you don't know. You don't know that this computer has been downloading something you've wanted. It just tells you, oh, it's here, which is, you know, it's not abnormal in media. You know, the six o''clock news most of it's produced before the actual broadcast so

um i took this idea to dave and i said we need to come up with something that can download a media file that i program somehow like this is going to show up and then it downloads it and only tells me when it's there and i can click on it and plays immediately and it it took some convincing he didn't exactly understand what I was saying. He probably thought, fucking MTV guy, get the fuck out of here. In fact, that's exactly what he thought. And then I actually demonstrated to him

what I wanted to do in his own software. And he said, okay, I'm going to do this, but only on the condition you never, ever, ever fucking use my software again because that was horrible what you just did. And so we created the enclosure element in RSS. And so for two years, we were doing back and forth, like movie files and stuff,

and oh, click, and it would open up, and the experience was good until I saw my first iPod. A friend of mine said, oh, look at this. I'm like, oh, this is the white one with the big click, click, click, click, click, the big wheel on it. That was a good one, right? They got hot after a while, like big hard drive. And I looked at it and went, this is not a digital Walkman. This is a fucking radio receiver. Because I had one.

I had a Sony AM radio receiver, which is a little solid state thing. I'm like, this is a radio. This can receive radio programming. And so I set about, again, with my fantastic programming skills, to make a little application. And the iPod at the time, you still had to sync it to iTunes. That's how you got music onto it back in the day. And so you could put an MP3 file into a blog post, basically, but it was a special attachment, really. And so this program would just be looking all the time, is there something new? Is there something new? Oh, there's something new. Download it. Then click, trip it, so that it's synchronized to the iPod. And it worked. Now, not being a programmer, actually, Kevin Marks, the guy who was working at Apple, sent me a version of the script that actually worked that was helpful.

And I set about creating a radio show, which we didn't have the name podcast yet. And I wanted to be able to talk to developers, software developers, who could create receivers. So we had iPodder, iPodder X, iPodder Lemon, all these different applications, which kind of did the same thing. And because I was talking to developers, I called it the daily source code. So I did every day and source code is kind of what the developers work in. And I was really talking to them like, okay, well, the guys over in New Zealand, they've created this version of the app and it's really working well. And we discovered all kinds of crazy shit like you subscribe to a feed because no one had thought it through. We would try and download everything you had in that feed all at once.

So I was trying to download 50 episodes. And we still had kind of always on internet. So everything would crunch and die and this just kept building and building and other people started doing these and we called them soliloquies and little bundles of joy and all kinds of really dumb names and the uh danny grigoire a guy who was just listening he said oh this this is a podcast and the name stuck now ben Hammersley from The Guardian years earlier had actually used the term podcast somewhere in an article, which there was no podcasting at the time,

but he envisioned that and called it podcast. So he's the guy. So he's the guy who named it. He used the term, but I would say Danny Gregoire really named what we were doing at the time. So, and that's when I didn't name myself the podfather, but people started calling me that. And it just grew from there. And that went really fast. Before I knew it, the BBC was calling and the interviews here and there.

I'm like, holy shit, something's blowing up here. Yeah. And it wasn't until a big moment was I got a call from Steve Jobs. And he says, well, actually, it was Eddie Q, who's a big man on campus there now. He says, can you meet with Steve? I'm like, let me check my calendar. Fuck yeah. So it was in, where's the D3 conference? Like San Diego, I think. where's the D3 conference? Like San Diego, I think.

Went there and I met with him for an hour. I've met a lot of interesting people. He's a busy dude. My best meeting to date had been Quincy Jones where I got drunk with him for an hour on a live radio show. Oh yeah, that was fantastic. So here's Steve Jobs

in the flesh. Now the first thing I notice is he's got a weird lisp that i'd not really heard before really yeah it's like well okay so he hides it when he does those maybe maybe when he's projecting just but he was much more personable and it's just the two of us but first he's he's mad he's fucking pissed off and he's yelling about, they fucked up Wi-Fi. And I learned later that his plan always for the iPhone was to not be a cell phone but to use Wi-Fi networks around the world. Whoa. Yeah, and because Cisco or whoever had changed the way Wi-Fi works

and the way the authentication works, that it really wouldn't be that seamless. But that was his vision. And so actually I thought to myself, dude, you should probably calm down. That's going to make you sick. And then he was talking about, oh, no, Eddie Q says, yeah, you know, the RAA called and they got a problem with how we're able to, you know, record sounds on the Mac, you know, breaking any kind of encryption. And I said, oh, yeah, that's actually kind of important because in order to record stuff, we're using like Audio Hijack Pro

and all these different kinds of tools. And I said, well, I hope they don't do that because it's kind of important for production. And Steve went, fuck it. Tell them to fuck themselves. This is tools our guys need. And then he said, Adam, I'd like to put podcasting in iTunes. Are you okay with that?

I'm like, are you kidding me? Yes, I'll give you my directory. I built a directory of podcasts. I'll give you that to start it off. Absolutely. And then it was kind of funny. So then maybe. What year was this?

2004, something like that, I think. Yeah, 2004, 2005 time frame. And then, Jamie, maybe you can find it if you want. It's a pretty funny video. So he announces this on stage playing my podcast where I just rail on the Mac. If you take a look, it's pretty funny. It's the one video that really legitimizes me in the world of podcasting. Thank you, Steve. I really appreciate

it. Oh, yeah, you got to check this out. This is hilarious. Well, you could try to sell podcasts, but the whole phenomenon is so great, it's free. And I think what we're going to see is an advertising-supported model emerge just like free radio. Here's another one. Adam Curry is one of the guys that invented podcasting. And he has a podcast called The Daily Source. Let me go ahead and subscribe to that. And we can go listen to his latest one you know just click on it daily source code show number one something remarkable is happening here radio is springing free of the regulated gatekeepers who've managed what you can hear since radio was invented it's jumping into the hands

of anyone at all with something or nothing to say. With $16 million worth of airplanes strapped to my ass, then the next generation radio content in my ears, I like to think I'm flying into the future. Podcasting, it's Adam Curry. That's right, it's show number 180, and it's Friday, everybody. Thank God. Power on your internet.

I've actually had to restart the show three times. My Mac has been acting up like a motherfucker. I don't know what's going on. I think it's something to do with the file system. Okay. He knew exactly what he was doing, bro. I'm telling you. He knew exactly. Oh, yeah. He had to. I'm sure he knew what he was doing bro I'm telling you He knew exactly

Oh yeah He had to I'm sure he knew what he was doing He would play a clip that he didn't know I love Kara Schwisher With her mouth just like What's happening That's hilarious

And then He sent me an email Later And he said I'm going to introduce you to Some people in Venture Capital Kleiner Perkins Sequoia Capital

Which I kind of took as a thank you And I went on to raise You know A lot of money from those companies to build my podcast network. What was the first, what year was your first podcast? The first one that you released? Well, so that was 2003, I guess. 2003. Wow. So what was going on before you?

Was there anything? Was there any other? Well, people have been putting, well, we had real video and real audio, if you remember. So that was kind of like the low-grade streaming stuff. But this really made, it did two things. I mean, it solved the bandwidth problem for downloading. That was the first. And now that's no longer an issue, of course.

But it put the subscription model into place. And because neither I or Dave Weiner have ever patented any of this it's completely free and open so no one owns it and that was that was the mission i'm very proud of that that's beautiful because you know otherwise if someone like you know spotify is now trying to buy podcasting uh by buying up all these networks and they'll make it exclusive and granted they're trying to switch froming by buying up all these networks, and they'll make it exclusive. And granted, they're trying to switch from a music company to an audio company. But ultimately, look at all the applications that are out there that are really good. People love them.

You know, the Apple podcast app. I use Overcast. I like that a lot. There's tons of different ones. And it's all because there's an open standard that no one can control. And Silicon Valley loves controlling shit. In fact, Apple loves controlling shit. This is one of the few things Apple has done that isn't a walled garden locked into Apple stuff.

It's interesting because they're not even monetizing it. No. And they have many different ways they could do stuff or they could help. But I don't know why. i don't know why i don't know why they're not um i think it's an oversight i think they thought for the longest time that it was just this thing that people did that was no big deal and then it's become so enormous but they still have this mouth this model they're operating under that it's just they're just aggregating could be i mean and what was interesting is when they started off, they immediately started to highlight NPR programming, which I'm grateful for. WGBH in Boston did a lot with putting their first programs, making those available as podcasts.

Kind of the beauty of the amateurism of podcasting got pushed down a little bit. It was all BBC, NPR, PBS. Radio Lab. How you doing? It's a little too much for me, the Radio Lab. I love Radio Lab, but I know what you're saying. It's very produced. It's very, like, people answer questions for the guest.

They'll cut in. So what he said was this. And you're like, why don't you just let him say it? Right. Well, so this is why you are the Tonight Show of our era. You have, and by the way, I feel like I'm playing the Super Bowl here. I mean, if you see my DMs and my text messages, people are like, holy, Rogan, this is legendary. They're going nuts. And I'm like, oh, shit.

I've got to prep for the Super Bowl. I've got to get ready to slam this. But you have taken what – you've really done the opposite. You've zigged everyone's zag. And you just have a conversation, unedited. You're a completely open type of personality. So instead of trying to rush in and get the information example i am i like uh eliza slezinger and i want and she was going to

be on kimmel like oh i'll stay up and watch and watch that she was second guest which kind of sucks because you get first guest you know and then a bit and all that and there was literally before she came on it was six minutes of ads then a native ad in the studio for d's nuts then another five minutes of it was 12 minutes of commercials and Schlesinger was on for five minutes you know not even a clip yep so people are sick and tired of it I mean the existing media because of just the the structure that's in place, the ratings game that probably isn't really reality, but it's an approved methodology. People believe in those numbers.

That's still there, but there's a reason why you get Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders and people want to come on your show because you speak to an entire generation. My daughter is like, holy shit, my friends are all telling me that you're going to be on your show because you speak to an entire generation my daughter it's like holy shit my friends are all telling me that you're gonna be on rogan she never never talks to me about any of that stuff like but you're rogan okay this is a little different that's hilarious well it's not like you don't know it i mean this it's weird it's i do know but it's weird why do you think is why do you say it's weird it's just weird it's weird well well it was never intent. There was no intention. Like starting it from the beginning was just fun.

And then I, well, this is cool. And then once it got like a certain amount of people, there was a point in time where I started getting guests. So I was like, you want to do my podcast? And, you know, some cool people like Anthony Bourdain was one of the first ones. Well, I remember in the beginning, and I've always wanted to be on your show. I think we've tweeted, you know tweeted maybe seven years ago or something. You were in Austin. But I always felt like,

dude's doing some kind of pirate radio out there. It's like, what is this shit? There's something cool going on. You got all these people around you. And the comedians, comics or comedians? Which do you prefer? Either one's fine. I don't think it matters.

Okay. Some people are sticklers for it. I always find them to be annoying. So what I liked so much is that comedians gravitated toward it and said, okay, we can be funny and we can do stuff that isn't necessarily our jokes that are going to get ripped off. Because I think for the longest time, comedians would be like, I don't want to be on the Internet. I'm not putting my shit out there because people will steal my jokes and they'll steal my whole routine. And if anything, you and comedians started to really blanket the landscape and show what could be done with this. And the fact that everyone could just kind of receive it on their phone was fantastic.

We kind of created a real organic network. That's one of the things. We all kind of talk about it, that networks, if you think of a network like NBC or whatever, you think of it's a controlled network with executives and shareholders, and then there's commercials. Yeah. There's all these different standards that you have to apply to. There's all the-

And agendas. Right. Exactly. But we're all on the network together. We're on Tuesday at at eight and these guys are on thursday at seven and then all this so i made that same mistake um thinking that i could build a podcast network and run it kind of like like a net a hybrid network uh record company and raised a lot of money to do it too first mistake is that the vc guys they wanted us to be in San Francisco. Who the fuck builds a media company in San Francisco? But okay. It just doesn't work for a number of reasons. But the main one is the advertising model is just not built for this.

An advertiser wants to know, and I'm talking real advertising, I'm not talking underwear and mattresses and Squarespace. We're talking automotive, pharmaceutical, telecom. That's where the real money is. They want to know exactly what they're going to be advertised on. And if they don't know what it is, they want no part of it. Especially now as we have cancel culture um through social networking they want no part of it so it's just not going to be spectacular uh the way you know you're not going to take those advertisers away um what i meant by network is not that though no i know but that's what i'm saying is like i tried to build the contained network right failed in my mind i mean people made money and everything the investors didn't

make money but a lot of people have tried to do that all things they're still trying it they're still trying it it's just it's not that profitable and it's also the ones that are successful are successful and the other ones aren't and like the idea that they're all sharing revenue it's like okay you kind of eat what you kill so what you what you're trying to say here about the ad hoc network is totally the way to go. What I'm saying is we didn't even think about it. We just were supporting each other. Yeah.

Comedians always suffered from famine syndrome because there was only a few shows on television and we were all trying to be on a sitcom or you were all trying to be the host of a late night show and there was only a handful of those. I'm sure everyone wanted to be that. or you were all trying to be the host of a late night show, and there was only a handful of those. I'm sure everyone wanted to be that. So that famine mentality was like, it created a lot of weird animosity and competition between comedians.

And then somewhere along the line, the internet came along, and then YouTube videos started making people famous, and then podcasts started making people famous. And then we all realized the old model of, hey, if you do Leno, you can't do Letterman. There was a lot of that nonsense back then. Of course, of course, of course. That shit's out the window.

Now, everybody does everybody's show. Like, Bill Burr does mine. I do his. We all do each other. I'll do Joey Diaz. He'll do mine. We're all friends. And what happens is I hear Bill Burr on your show, and I'm like, oh, fuck, he's got a podcast?

Yeah. Monday morning podcast? Boom, subscribe. Exactly. Joey Diaz, not necessarily my kind of guy but he's off the hook his own podcast is kind of fun so you are in a way kind of like a mothership the rising tide lifts all boats that's that's how we think about it how how capitalistic yeah but it's not even that way it's just like everybody gets to do well it's not that you know

we're thinking of it in terms of uh an industry at all it's really just fun it just happens to be profitable but the way we started it out with no thought whatsoever of it ever being profitable that's why it became what it is because it was all like doing giant bong hits and hitting all this vaporizer and literally not even knowing what you're talking about while you're talking half the time and having fun with a bunch of silly people. It was part of the appeal because everybody wants to be at the party. Yeah. That's why radio stations do remote broadcasts.

That's why top 40 stations go to Popeyes. Yeah. And, hey, we're here this morning, everybody. Right. Everyone wants to be part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you're actually partying, I mean, that's what people love, of course.

Yeah. We do these podcasts called Fight Companions, and they're some of our most popular ever. Yeah. And we'll watch fights and drink and smoke weed while the fights are going on. And they're madness. They become total chaos. Yes. And those are some of the most popular podcasts we do.

Shout out to Ryan, my dance instructor, who's a huge fan. You're a dancer? What kind of dance are you doing? Well, no, my wife and I, we're dancing. Yeah, yeah. Of course. It's part of my workout regimen. It is a workout, man.

It's a huge workout. It's a real workout. Oh, yeah. It's a lesson in body coordination and awareness. I mean, we'll do a double lesson. This has always been my dream. And so finally, I found a woman who

this it's really do you dance at all have you ever danced ballroom dance no but I did have to take dance lessons for this movie Zookeeper that I did a few years back

oh it was with the Kevin Kevin James yeah it had a whole dance scene where it was like weeks I like that movie me and Leslie Bibb

had this thing it was fun so it is the man leads the woman. It is a very traditional role in dancing. Or if you have two women dancing, one of them has to be the lead. But in this case, and the woman has to give into it. And it is for both of us, we find it just for being together and I'm leading, she's following.

It's a total trust thing. There's all this interaction that you have, which is almost frowned upon in today's society. You know, oh, what? The man is actually, even me saying this. That you're leading. Oh, you're leading. I'm leading. It's, you know, it's called leading.

But when you do an hour and a half, like a double lesson, I'm sweating. Yeah. I'm in all your muscles, everything. Just look at them on Dancing with the Stars. These fuckers are cut. It's hard. I talked to Chuck Liddell, who is the UFC light heavyweight champion. He told me that Dancing with the Stars was one of the hardest things he ever did.

I believe it. Just preparing for it. I believe it. Yeah. It's hard. Dancing's real. Joe Rogan says, dancing's real. It's real.

It's a bumper sticker it's a real it is real it's a difficult thing to do and the cool thing is you can do it anywhere yeah true

so we want to get to the we've only just started a couple months but we want to get to the part where we can just go into a place and just dance oh look at that yeah

that's cool that's a it's I I'm a big believer in learning things and taking lessons and just something you suck at.

Just try it. So I got my ham radio license. Oh, what did you do? Academically, I'm a piece of shit. I barely made it through high school. I dropped out of college in two months. I'm like, this is not for me. This is not for me.

Sounds like me. I learned how to fly helicopters and airplanes. So I've gotten all these things. Not that I really fly that much anymore. Bird does helicopters. I know. I know. I heard that.

He flew me around downtown LA. Yeah. And is Robbie 44 or 22? He doesn't have his own. He was using one of the ones at this helicopter company. Right. But was it four-seater or two-seater? It was a four-seater.

Okay. Robinson 44. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I trained in. I owned two helicopters. Really? I had a helicopter companyseater. It was a four-seater? Okay, Robinson 44. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I trained in. I owned two helicopters. Really? I had a helicopter company.

Whoa. Yeah. In Texas, you could shoot pigs out of them. Yes, but- You ever seen those? This was in the Netherlands. Yeah, no, believe me, I've been invited. I'm sure, yeah.

I've been invited. I don't like that idea. It seems kind of unfair. Well, it's a very unfair idea, but also, they have to do something. Like, there's millions and millions of wild pigs. Well, the pigs are a problem. The pigs are a problem. But it's just like, to me, it's like, ha, ha, boom.

Exactly. The problem is, that's the problem, right? I don't like that. The problem is the joking around about it while death is happening. It's a disturbing and very unwinnable situation because the feral hog problem is so big, particularly in Texas, that they lose millions of dollars in crops every year. It's a real problem. I just can't get into the $300 an hour helicopter just shooting out of it.

Yeah, out of the window. It's a lot of food, though. It does make a lot of food. They donate the food to homeless people. I have never shot a living thing. I have guns. I've shot a lot of guns. Do you eat meat?

Yeah. Oh, hell yeah. Wild pigs are a good place to start. There's a place that does oryx. Okay. Have you ever had oryx? No, I have not. Oh, my God.

It's so good. So they have the conservation in Texas. And there's actually more oryx in Texas than in Africa, I believe. That's true. Because they're really managing them. You can go there, you can hunt them, shoot them, and then they'll dress the whole thing for you if you want. You can do it yourself.

That part's not for me. I don't know. I just don't think I can. If I had to, no problem. Right. You don't have to. Right. Yeah, no, I get it, man.

I get it. It's not for everybody. Have you ever shot something? Yeah. Yeah, I hunt. Oh, you do it, man. I get it. It's not for everybody. Have you ever shot something? Yeah. Yeah, I hunt. Oh, you do bow and arrow. Right, okay. That's a whole different level.

Yeah, it's, well, that, this is my first animal I ever shot, that deer. I shot it on a TV show called Meat Eater, and I got hooked right after, because I was either going to become a vegetarian or I was going to become a hunter. Right. I'd seen too many of those PETA videos.

You dress them, you do all that yourself? I do everything. Yeah, I do everything. I've got a buddy who does that scott in uh in in austin when i go when i go elk hunting um we'll dress it in the field and quarter it but then i'll send it to a butcher to get it chopped up right different cuts but you know i i love meat nothing wrong yeah it's um i understand what you're saying like to pull the trigger and to to be there when an animal dies's intense, but it also makes you realize what you're doing when you're eating meat. Absolutely. Yeah.

And I think just knowing this, I'm cognizant of it, and I don't bless my food, but I think about it. I'm like, thanks, man. Thanks, madam. When I was in Utah last September and I shot this elk, not only do these guys pray for the elk everyone takes their hat off but they actually take a wad of grass that the elk eat and they make like a bundle of it and they put it down on the elk carcass when we were done cleaning the elk so after the the bare bones of the elk after the meat's removed they put this this thing down they take their hats off it was pretty serious right these guides they do it with every every elk that dies yeah yeah because it's you know it's part of their livelihood but it's also they're majestic they're they're and they're they're delicious beautiful animals yeah and they're so special they're so

interesting like if i could just eat elk for the rest of my life i'd be happy doing that reindeer have you tried reindeer no caribou okay So reindeer in Finland. I had some reindeer. There's a restaurant, and then a buddy of mine worked at Nokia at the time. And they bring you a picture. This is him. What? And he's alive. You're like, that's Rudolph.

And then there he is. So they kill him right before they serve it to you? I don't know that, but they do show you. This is the one you're eating right here. Oh, wow. That's intense. Very tasty, though. It's. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's intense. Very tasty, though. It's fantastic, fantastic meat. Yeah.

Caribou is a very prized meat. Yeah. And they're amazing animals, too. And they have these huge herds of them. I went to the North Pole, and I saw just tons of them, tons of them up there. Do you know the whole story with them and psychedelics? With caribou? Yeah.

No, but I'm interested. Okay. Caribou are connected to a mushroom called the Amanita muscaria mushroom. They're addicted to this mushroom. They eat it constantly. They've actually been known when people do psychedelic ceremonies and they go outside of their yurts to pee, caribou will knock them over to try to get to their urine because their urine is rich with the smell of this this

mushroom yeah they eat it constantly hence it's a psychedelic mushroom the flying reindeer it gets crazier right the connection between santa claus and reindeers is very strange the connection between santa claus and this mushroom is also very strange the mushroom looks like santa claus it's red and white it also shows up under pine trees. It has a mycorrhizal relationship with coniferous trees. So when it rains, the mushrooms will pop up

under these trees. So these bright packages that look, look, that's what they look like. Packages under the tree. Exactly. That is what they look like

under trees. Wait. Boom. Yeah. Not only that, it gets crazier. It gets crazier. To dry them off, the shamans would pick them and then put them in the pine.

Put that photo up again for Adam. Thanks, man. Put them in the pine needles to dry them off. So just like balls hanging from a Christmas tree. Right, right. And ornaments in a Christmas tree. Well, we still put pine needles in the, pine cones in the tree. Yes, exactly.

And balls, those bright colored balls. They think the origin of that was those things. Also, Santa Claus came down the Christmas tree, or excuse me, the chimney. When they were discouraging these shamanic rituals, people had to sneak into people's houses to perform them. And one of the ways they did that was to climb down through the chimney. So the shaman would drop down through the chimney with a bag of mushrooms and then they would all have these ceremonies and when these ceremonies were forbidden that's how they that's how they got around it yeah it's a the the relationship between santa claus and christmas and this mushroom is very strange and there's

tons of articles also almost all of the old christ Christmas cards had the Amanita Muscaria mushroom on it. And elves. Also, the elves. The connection between elves and these mushrooms. I've got to ask Dvorak about that. He collects. He's an archivist. He collects old Christmas cards.

Oh, does he? I'll bet you he has some of those. I'll bet you he does. Find old Christmas cards with mushrooms. There's thousands of them. I've never done mushrooms. What? I've done DMT.

No, no, no. Thank you. I'll smoke Weeby of it. Okay. And I did DMT and No, no, no. Thank you. I'll smoke weevil. And I did DMT and enjoyed it very, very much. That's a wild one, huh? I did it twice. See, look at these old Christmas trees. Oh, yeah.

Find some ones that show like, look at that one right there in the middle. Yeah, there you go. See that one? Merry Christmas. Trip your balls off, kids. Hey, look, they all have mushrooms. Oh, my God. trip your balls off kids hey look they all have mushrooms oh my god in the early 1900s when they were making these and even the 1800s people were just more connected to the origins of these stores

sure and over time we've kind of lost that connection commercialized it into all kinds but it's always the amanita muscaria if you look at these yeah the mushroom of course it's always that one mushroom that looks like santa claus. Yeah. It's a weird mushroom, though. That was a complicated mushroom because it varies genetically and also varies geographically and also varies seasonally. I've done it before, but I never had a good reaction out of it. I did it with my friend Stanhope, and Doug and I did it, and we weren't feeling it. And then we had some other mushrooms, and we brought some psilocybin mushrooms.

We threw them into the party party and then we took off. I'm not into eating any drugs. I like smoking flour. That's about it. Okay. I grew up in Amsterdam. That made it kind of easy. Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah. It's tricky, especially when you don't know what you're getting. But mushrooms are pretty standard. Once you've done it a few times, you know what you're getting. Mm-hmm. You know, but mushrooms are pretty standard once you've done it a few times. You know what you're getting into. But that mushroom and Christmas, it's a very, and anyway, the caribou, which is pull Santa's reindeer, pull the sled, right? Well, they're flying because they're tripping their balls off. They're high as fuck.

Wow. Yeah. The more you know. Yeah, I mean, that's probably the reason why those reindeer are addicted to that mushroom. They favor it. They love it. Yeah. That's a normal story.

That mushroom also is a weird one in that when people take it, they trip, and then to really enhance their trip, they drink their urine. Because apparently, in the urine contains, like your body filters out. You get an extra, super blast exactly yeah fantastic weird stuff i'm trying to cut back on drinking my pee though yeah it's good just a bit yeah it's just it's unsightly people catch you doing it that gives a weird socially so unacceptable you know just like what the hell are you doing curry yeah um but anyway caribou i've never had it but i've heard it's delicious i've had a bunch of different kinds of deer axis deer is probably the favorite that's that's really delicious that's another one is a weird it's a weird deer because uh it's an invasive species in texas oh i got him in the backyard oh

do you have access here in your backyard no no i got deer oh really yeah i don't know regular white-tailed deer i have no idea do they have white spots all over their bodies and weird horns uh kind of like that? That's a mule deer. You probably don't have too many of those. I don't know. You probably have white tails. I don't know.

They hiss. They hiss? Oh, they wheeze at you. Whee! Yeah. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, that's the girls usually. They're letting the men know that there's some danger here.

Yeah. They just walk right through the backyard, walk onto the street. We live in a cul-de-sac. They're all over the place. Wow. Whatever. Okay. Yeah, that's what happens when there's no predators.

It becomes a real issue. People slam their cars into them. I have a buddy who lives in Iowa, and you can't even, when it's the rut, like in November, you can't even drive. Yeah, you're just crossing the road everywhere. Everywhere you're going, you better be going 20 miles an hour, because they just dart out with a boner. They don't know what they're doing, because the males lose their fucking marbles.

They're basically rodents. It's just kind of like, what the hell? They're not that wise. So I don't feed them. Just go away. Yeah, that's smart. Keep them going. Move on, people.

Nothing to see here. But if you have apples or something in your backyard, then it becomes a real problem. No, don't have any of that. At least you guys don't have bears. That really is a pain in the ass. We've got coyotes now, though. I'll bet you do. Yeah, I saw a couple of those walking through the yard yeah and they're you know i have no pets so uh yeah we've lost pets i used to have so much i used to have so many pets

i had everything yeah oh dogs cats goats uh do you feel for now without them i do yeah i do it's just uh you don't really realize it until you know you you're closing the sliding door you're opening it up and you're not thinking shit you know right is someone going to get out you know that's very free that's a weird thing too i always feel bad the cats can't even go outside well they can't go outside in texas they'll get eaten yeah but it's just sad that they can't even go outside like what the fuck kind of life is that? Just living in a little prison where you get free massages? Yeah, like gerbils, you know, in a cage. I don't like goldfish.

I don't like any of that. Goats, though. I had a lot of goats. Those are mean fuckers. Yeah. Horses, too. I had a thing. My daughter had horses, and I had a castle in Belgium, and we had two horses there.

You had a castle in Belgium? Yeah. Damn. I used to have money. I spent it on- Is this the MTV money? No, no. I took my company public in 96 called Think New Ideas and it was one of the first internet

marketing advertising companies and it was big. We had 400 people. It was a big company. Oh, wow. And yeah, my buddy and I, we just worked out, and we took it public. Back then, it was like this is before the real dot-com craze. So we raised $20 million. Like, holy shit, we couldn't believe it, which is nothing these days.

And after all the lawyers and everyone had taken their money, there was $15 million left. And so we started to build the business. And what were we talking about castle you have a castle oh yeah so there was that and then i'd also at the time uh someone had said um i did pretty well on the on the ipo and i'm not crazy but you know okay there's a you know i learned what dilution means i learned that pretty quick but i invested $50,000 in some company And then In 2000, just before 2000

Moved to Amsterdam, moved back to the Netherlands And the bank called me Said, you sitting down? I said, yeah What's up? He said, you remember that company you invested in? I said, yeah Well, it went public It was Ask Jeeves And you now have $65 million

I'm like, on paper On paper, Joe it was Ask Jeeves. And you now have $65 million. I'm like, on paper. On paper, Joe. So lock up. You couldn't sell any of it, all this stuff. So I did get some out, but basically wrote it down to wallpaper. How come you can't sell it? Well, if you're an insider, you lock up your shares.

It's an SEC regulation, so you can't sell for it. I think it's negotiable, but it's so the other investors who come in won't be left holding the bag. So you do the IPO, and then all the insiders sell their shares, and everyone who just bought at the IPO, then all their shit goes down in value, and they're screwed.

So there's a lockup typically six months or 12 months or 18 months. And through some back-ended way i don't know what the hell was going on bankers do it with swapping stuff and promises and derivatives they were able to get some money out for me that i spent on helicopters and castles and all kinds of fun stuff i've enjoyed the money yeah that's good definitely glad i got the podcasting thing left so how'd you get back to austin uh well i uh so i had the company in san francisco this was a different company the podcast company and i was going i was living in london at the time so i lived there for five years damn

you're an international traveler oh i've lived in a couple places um and was going back and forth uh san francisco london and uh there was a breakup between me and my wife and we got divorced uh and so i stayed in san francisco and then moved uh um to california to uh to los angeles for uh it was about a year i always want.A. I lived in the hills over by Highland. And it just didn't work for me. I was doing basically the podcast. That shows me like 12, 13 years ago. And I don't know.

Maybe it was that area. But I really had nowhere else to go. And if I wanted to go somewhere, I'm just sitting in traffic all day. It's like if I want to go to the beach, no. I was with a woman at the time who was an actress. Never marry an actress, man. It's bad. I was warned. So she wanted to be in that general area. So it just wasn't working for me. And then I did a tour from Virginia down to Florida, the Gulf Coast for the show with an RV, doing the show from the RV, meeting people, doing meetups. And it was just around the time when you had the BP oil spill in the Gulf.

And so people were really depressed, and it was all messy, and it was not a good vibe. And I was going to go straight up to Chicago. not a good vibe and I was going to go straight up to Chicago and a buddy of mine Greg Lawley who was one of the true last independent record promoters who I'd known from San Francisco and he I knew him from Chicago back from the radio days and he said oh Adam come to Austin you'll love it come to Austin you stay at my place come to Austin like no man I'd never really been to Texas you know just like that doesn't really interest me I'm just going to go up to Chicago and he just kept pushing and pushing as I'm driving up and then he says or I thought to myself Greg is flamboyantly gay single dad adopted a kid from Ukraine and if he's in Texas and he's still alive it can't be that bad so something maybe it's just

Austin I don't know so I visit him and we did a meetup and this is in the something maybe it's just austin i don't know so i visited and we did a meetup and this is in the summer so it's about 112 degrees but you know that austin heat is not too humid it's it's doable and there were 30 33 people at the meetup and they were all happy and proud of their city and proud of their state and they loved what was just there was so much good energy particularly after it just came from the gulf and one young woman her purse fell on the ground and out rolled a fresh pair of underpants and uh and a handgun i'm like texas this is where i've moved there three months later really i've been there 10 years now wow yeah it has grown, though. Oh, my God. It's crazy, right? It's changing. People talk about it too much. I mean, I've lived in, my wife Tina and I, we got married in May.

We bought a house together, southeast Austin, but we were living downtown, right downtown. I had a place there, and then we moved into an apartment together, and we just saw it happening. It really started with the scooters. That's really what started to mess up austin um you know because they just overnight it's like what the fuck is this i'm just they're everywhere and you i mean austin had already been trying to create a bike vibe with the bike paths and you know just all the stuff which is ludicicrous. I grew up riding bicycles and it takes maybe 50 years before everyone is accustomed to bicycle traffic. It's not just something that's built in. I turn right around the corner, I still look. I look in my right

mirror, I look there to make sure there's not a bike next to me. It's just built in. People don't do that. So people are always getting hit. And then these scooters pop up, and it's just mayhem everywhere. They're on the sidewalks. They're mowing people down. People are, you know, it's nuts. They go fast, too. You should see this motherfucker. They go very fast.

They go very fast. He's got a souped up one. How fast does that bitch go? Like 50? 25. Ah, pussy. 50? Does one go 50? Oh, yeah. On a scooter? Oh, I've seen him jacked up doing? 25. Not that bad. Pussy. 50? Does one's go 50?

Oh, yeah. On a scooter? Oh, I've seen him jacked up doing 50. Oh, my God. Sure thing. If you wipe, you're dead. Yeah. Well, there's that.

Yeah, you're going down at 50. But 25 is already pretty fast. He flies. Yeah, because I think most of them do about 15, 15, 17 miles an hour. His is juicy. But what I noticed is because all the Silicon Valley companies are opening up offices in Texas, a lot of them in Austin. And that's where they put the human resource heavy stuff.

So not the top programmers. This is help desk. This is the people who review the YouTube videos. So they're already kind of whack because they're watching nothing but death and destruction and fucked up shit all day long. They don't really have a connection to the city. They're kind of like, I'm here for a couple of years and I'll go move somewhere else.

So they don't care. And they're on the scooters. So they don't really care about the city, about the whole vibe. Like, whatever, get fucked up and drive around. And that's become increasingly more. Austin has some other problems. We're kind of following what California, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle.

We're following the let people camp everywhere thing. So that's become a real problem. And it's crazy here. You know, it's based upon, it all comes from a lawsuit in Boise, Idaho. And that's where this started, where, and the first went through the Fifth Circuit and the Ninth Circuit Court. There was an appeal that said, you cannot move people who are camping without having a suitable place for them to stay that you can offer them. Because then it is a violation of the Eighth Amendment under cruel unusual punishment that's why and that's what austin said well until that's solved it's cruel and unusual punishment to move someone who's homeless or not

move someone who's camping if you can't offer them adequate um housing so these people are just camping on sidewalks there just like they do here is that the underpasses medians you know the underpasses yeah it's crazy and so it's this weird legal situation yeah this really started um well they they lifted the camp the no camping ban lifted it so it was not a problem then they said well we're gonna let anyone camp and it went nuts and all of a sudden downtown was just filled with people laying camp and everywhere then they went oh this is not going to work mayor adler and city council so uh okay we'll ban it in the just in downtown which is pretty much where the mayor lives you know the w hotel this you can't no camping in front of city hall, but we're a university town, so you've got UT, and there's this whole half of a semicircle of camping and just mayhem right on the outskirts of the campus. And kids are afraid.

They're getting harassed. We have squeegee guys. Dude, I drove into New York every single day from Jersey in 89, 90, and the squeegee guys were a huge problem, and then they were gone. I think Giuliani threw them in the East River or something, and now they're back in New York. It's like this is not a good thing. Yeah, how do you fix that, though? People are worried about the cruelty in fixing it.

Oh, there you go. That's the problem. People are worried about the cruelty in fixing it. Oh, there you go. That's the problem. It's like you almost have to be cruel to stop that. No. No?

How do you stop? Well, you have to engineer some sort of a homeless solution. Well, what are we talking about? Not everyone who is squeegeeing and loitering and soliciting is homeless. Right. Or it's not necessarily something that they didn't choose. A lot of people choose a vagrant lifestyle. There's tons of it, particularly in warmer climates. I care.

And I do a lot for the homeless problem in Austin, as much as I can. And none of it is sanctioned by the city. They're fucking morons. They're just like, oh, we'll build affordable housing. We'll get a hotel and we'll turn that into a slum hotel. Okay, great. The number one reason people become homeless is catastrophic loss of family. That's the number one reason.

Someone dies, you know, and then it's just downhill from there and before you know it, you're out on the street. And it's very difficult to rebound from that kind of thing. And so people need community. Everybody needs community. So where do they find their community? Under the thing. And so people need community. Everybody needs community. So where do they find their community? Under the bridge. That's where the community is. And the community is transactional.

It's drugs. You know, it's whatever. That's a community. It's not a healthy one, but it's a community. There's actually a great project in Austin called Mobile Loaves and Fishes, Community First Village. Started by this guy who was in construction. a great project in Austin called Mobile Loaves and Fishes, a community-first village, started by this guy who was in construction. And he just put down a whole bunch of tiny homes. And people who are, if you're homeless, you can go there and you can live in a tiny home,

but you rent it. And there are some prerequisites, but you don't have to be necessarily drug-free because it's your home, so you can do whatever you want in your home. But it's like $200 or $250 a month. Most people, if they do the paperwork, they can get Social Security or disability, which will cover that. They still have to either work there in the community garden to feed themselves, like auto detailing, got all this different stuff. But there's no policing. I think there's 500 people there now. And it's working out fantastically.

Oh, that's cool. Because they have community. An outside-the-box solution. Totally, totally. Gets no money from the city because there's a religious aspect to it. You know, there's a ministry part. So, oh, we can't give money to that because, you know, fucking God nuts or whatever it is. But it's really working extremely well. That's great when someone comes up with something yeah you know i don't i mean people should look at this alan graham is a saint what he did and

he lives there he lives in a in a in a small you know small home on premises yeah and if you go there he'll be happy to show you around and And they got all kinds of cool stuff. But just people are living together. He says, so if Joe walks out in the morning, not you, Joe, but the other Joe, and he's got his dick hanging out. And he's like, instead of the neighbors calling the cops, the neighbors, hey, Joe, what's going on, man? Let's sit down for a second. Let's have a coffee. Let's see what's going on. Pull your pants up.

And a community. Community first second. Let's have a coffee. Let's see what's going on. Pull your pants up. And a community. Community first village. That's the answer. But that's not the answer that you hear from your local city council or your mayors. It's always, well, we don't have affordable housing. Affordable housing is not going to fix everything. It's also there's a lot of mental illness. That's a giant part of it.

Well, of course. Drug addiction. But there's a lot of people with mental illness who have houses right you know it's true um definitely it's a mental illness and drug addiction but it really starts with catastrophic loss of family that's the number one reason people become unhoused out here it's the shift was jimmy would you say about four or five years ago it really started kicking in somewhere around then yeah somewhere around four or five years ago. It really started kicking in somewhere around then, yeah. Somewhere around four or five years ago, you just started noticing villages of tents under passes. Yeah.

And then we used to do Fear Factor in downtown LA, like right down the street from Skid Row, which is an extraordinary place. If you've never seen Skid Row and you drive by, you go, what? This is real? Like, this is downtown Los Angeles and you're in a zombie movie. Which they turned beautiful, by the way. I mean, they really, you know, downtown LA became really nice. Some parts of it.

Yeah, great infrastructure and everything. Restaurants and cool, really cool apartment buildings and stuff. It's an interesting spot. But then there's also Skid Row. Yeah. Which is just, you can't believe the staggering numbers of people that are just camped out. Yeah. Thousands and thousands and thousands, just a mass, like people coming out of a fucking stadium to see a game.

Adam Carolla said it really well. I forget where I saw him. He said it's like no one wants to be the bad guy. No one wants to say, okay, this shit has to stop. We got to do something about this. And it starts with stopping whatever you're doing. And that's a part of cancel culture. People are afraid, you know, because cancel culture is real.

If you have something to lose, like you have nothing to lose. I have nothing to lose. You're bulletproof to a degree I'm bulletproof. You can cancel all you want. You're not taking away from me. No advertisers. I don't have them. Only the people who listen can stop listening.

That's the only thing that could happen. How do you monetize your podcast if you don't have advertisers? Well, we call it the value for value system. When Dvorak and I started the show 13 years ago, it was just him and I just talking on Skype. I was in London. He was in San Francisco. We noticed that because I like to read Skype. I was in London. He was in San Francisco. And we noticed that because I like to read legislation. I'll read bills.

I was reading the Lisbon Treaty, which was kind of the European – it was supposed to be the European Constitution, which was voted down by France, the Netherlands, and Ireland, and then the European Union went, no, no, no, let's vote again. You did it wrong. Literally, like, re-vote. So, so okay I guess we'll vote this way now and then I was reading it like this is this is not the way it's being portrayed on television like oh we'll have it won't need a passport to go to other countries we'll have the same money I mean I was seeing shit in there that was way

different about you can incarcerate people you can deadly force by the cops would be legalized. And none of this is really what's happening over here. At the same time, I read a book called – I'm just going to give you the background to get into the money part – called Legacy of Ashes by New York Times writer David Wiener, I think. And it was about the CIA. And my uncle appears in this book multiple times, my uncle Don Gregg, who was a big, big guy in the CIA for a long time. And I called him up and said,

Don, have you read this? He said, yeah. I said, is it true? He said, yes, pretty much. I remember it. I'm like, okay. So whatever is on television and radio is not at all really what's going on or what has happened.

And so it started to become a lot of work. We're doing work. And then we said, well, we'll never get advertised. Dvorak's a radio guy. He's a media guy. So we understand it all. We'll never get advertisers. That'll never work.

So we'll just have to ask people to send us money. But why did you say you would never get advertisers? Because it's too controversial. I mean, yeah, we can get some advertisers, but not the real advertisers. That's what we talked about earlier. No advertiser is really going to be interested. And also, what are your ratings? What are your metrics? What are your numbers? Certainly then the questions, well, how do you, you know, what are your ratings? What are your metrics? What are your numbers? You know, certainly then the questions, well, how do you know if someone will listen if it's just a download? I mean,

I'm sure you've gone through all of this. Also, we didn't want to have a fucking meeting. Yeah. I don't want to have a meeting with advertisers. I don't want to meet anymore. No more meetings. So,

but we did something different. We said, instead of saying, send us five bucks, I don't work for tips. You don't work for tips you don't work for tips instead of that um what is this show worth to you so you just listen to us for a couple hours you could have gone to the movies you know if you took a date had some you had a coke and popcorn 50 bucks was this worth 50 bucks up to you and what we discovered is that value is very different some people will say that's here's five

dollars i love the show someone else says here's five hundred dollars that's how much i value the show someone else says fuck i'm gonna give you a thousand dollars that's how much i value the show and we built this model where we literally just say what value does the show bring to you and we thank people with the amounts that they gave we're completely transparent you can just sit there and see what people are giving us and it just became this whole interactive feature where uh well we put levels in so if you if you donate two hundred dollars you're an associate executive producer just like hollywood you the fuck says it's a real – $300, you're an executive producer. And we do a little mention in a different part of the show for the executive producers. And they can read a note, and oftentimes it's usually something about the show.

So they're brought into the conversation specifically. So it's not just a donation segment. It's content. specifically so it's not just a donation segment it's content and we have like you have um lawyers doctors nurses teachers college professors uh tons of military um lots of spooks and three-letter aid you know cdc also it's kind of a spook agency there's all kinds of crazy uh people who really i think enjoy when we talk about what they're doing and so they love to let you know and it may be anonymous you know like hey man don't mention my name but you know here's and that just grew and um uh you know now 13 years later we've we're feeding two families

and we're very very happy and uh that's all i do is you a week, Sundays, Thursdays. We do record it live. We don't do any post-editing or anything. It's in and out, just done. And do you like the fact that you just don't have any connection to anyone other than your fans? Is that very satisfying? Extremely satisfying. It's not just fans. We don't call them listeners, fans.

They're producers. That's a great way of putting it. Everybody is a producer. If you see the amount of stuff that I get in, so take coronavirus. We've got a lot of people who are very specified, not just in epidemiology, but in finance, who can give us all these different insights. And you put it all together. I'm really a professional information manager, and I built a whole bunch of systems specifically for that.

I just get stuff coming in, coming in, and we like to deconstruct the media. So we'll play anywhere from 30 to 50 little news clips in a three-hour show and then just deconstruct it. Why is this being said? What is really behind this? Is it true? And then I spend a lot of time researching. That's really what I do. I just research and look at stuff and bang it around, look at this, if I can, from all angles as much as possible,

and then present it. And it's often surprisingly accurate. Wow. I love that idea of calling them producers. And I love the idea that you're not connected at all to anyone other than your fans. Yeah. That's perfect. The producers, Joe. It's the producers. I like it.

And then we started to, I guess the correct term would be gamify it. So people started saying, hey, man, I've donated $1,000 in total over whatever. That's fantastic. We should reward these people. So we started to give them knighthoods. Why should the queen, who I've met, why should the queen of England be the only one who can do that? We can do knighthoods.

They're just as good. You get a signet ring and some sealing wax. Do you really? Yeah. Yeah. You get a real ring so you could actually like close a letter with it? Yes. Drip them out the wax.

People send letters to us all the time. They got their meetups, the people with their rings. It's like a badge of honor. It's a little culty. A little bit. It's unavoidable. There's a lot of different elements.

I would say more like a church, which can also be a cult. Yeah. It's not an evil cult. In fact, it's a very healthy cult. We now have people are now doing meetups around the world where they come together. And we have a noagendameetups.com. People can schedule it. And we've got all this.

That's another thing. We have all the infrastructure. The entire show is run by the producers. So we have independent architecture for our our servers all of that one run by void zero sir bemrose they run it they do it you know out of the love love and goodness of their heart for the show of course they receive titles etc for that um we have an art generator where every show we have it has new art there'll be 10 or 12 different submissions. It's kind of a little contest. To have new art on every new podcast

is really exciting when it shows up in the podcast app. It's something different. But we also have, oh my God, we have search engines. We have just all this stuff that guys and gals have just built for us and just kind of runs and it all kind of fits together so we we would never be able to make money uh with this if we outsourced the production you know paid production we wouldn't make it and i think it's very hard for anybody to do that unless you're at a uh at a jre scale which is a little different i don't we don't even know how

many people listen we don't know we don't fucking We don't even know how many people listen. We don't know. We don't fucking care. You don't know how many people listen? There's no actual way to know. There's no technical way. Anyone telling you different is full of shit. There's no way to know how many people listened. It's just not. The Apple iPhone app does have some statistics that you can get,

but it's only iPhone statistics. You can kind of get an idea and you can extrapolate out. That's recent that they have that. Meaning that you don't know how many downloads, really? Or you don't know how many people listen to the downloads? Well, I can count downloads, but how many people listen to it? You don't know. Right. And even then, there's a lot of

network address translation that you may not be counting all the downloads. It's just technically not true. Unless you rig the listening side, which is kind of what Apple did, and have statistics there, which no one has, there's no way to actually know who's listening.

But for us, it's like, can I pay the mortgage? Okay, great show. That's it. And that is, it's like killing and eating the meat yourself. It's a version of that, and I love it. We spawned a couple other shows that have the same system.

Jen Briney with Congressional Dish. I started a new one called Mo Facts, which has the same systemology. It is so fucking gratifying. It really, I love it. I love the people who who help us who produce stuff for us and we'll go to a meetup people you know donate on the spot but they also love just meeting together without us they're all over the like leap day there must have been 14 different meetups around the world. And I'm talking Israel, Australia, England, the Netherlands, just all over the world. And they get together to just be in a non-triggering environment. So you can say whatever the fuck you want, kind of like our show.

No one's going to get triggered. No one's going to get outraged. And it's all different kinds of walks of life and they have one thing in common it's like you know they think the media is kind of full of shit and uh and they support the show and they like those topics and and you know but there's no it's just it's small amygdalas man that's cool small amygdalas um it has been a weird and it must be it's been a weird ride for us noticing how much more outrage people get at things today than they did just a few years ago and targeted outrage where people just decide that you know they're gonna start attacking you

for something that used to be normal to say like there was a like some of it is so ridiculous it's crazy like there was a titania mcgrath had a uh that's a great quote twitter account yeah i love that guy andrew shout out to andrew um he's got a uh post there was a sign that was hanging uh from a window um in the uk that it basically was the definition of a woman it said a woman a female human being noun right that's like the sign and then all these people went crazy and we're protesting it saying that it's a transphobic dog whistle which is that's a new one right dog whistles only been around for like two years People calling something transphobic or homophobic Or a sexist dog whistle

Like, holy shit Like, you can't say anything anymore Well, let's go back to the basics Yeah I was on the internet very early 1987, before the World Wide Web And you may remember We had something called Usenet groups

Yes And the Usenet groups And the way it used to work, because we didn't really have a widely spread internet back then except in universities. And I was on MTV, and when I saw the internet, I'm like, holy fuck, I'm emailing with my audience, who were not counted in the ratings, by the way.

College audience don't count in the Nielsen ratings, or at least didn't at the time. And they want something very different from what MTV is playing. So I was like wow this is interesting so I got into these usernet groups and the way that worked is you'd post something and then overnight it would be copied all around the internet and you had to connect to a special server and you pulled in the groups that you had subscribed to and so really it was kind of a it wasn't an immediate conversation we'd post something and then people would reply back and i just kind of jumped

in two feet and and immediately fuck you commercial mtv asshole what are you doing here fuck off that you don't you're not supposed to quote like that you're supposed to quote at the bottom and the top and i was like whoa what's going on and what that was is the minute you have the opportunity for people to say stuff anonymously they turn into giant dick bags almost everybody this is just an easier way to do it yeah now we've made it so easy and with all the little the you know the the the blips and the blooms and the rewards that you feel when something is posted or someone you know goes against you and it's like and again i think amygdalas have swollen because of this so then you get this this you respond differently to what you think is an attack and the attack registered you know this shit registers in your brain as something really

dangerous i'm gonna go back at them but they're anonymous and that's the that's the best thing then the blue check mark became a little more interesting um which i don't have and i tried to get one for a long time and someone over there hates me and now really oh yeah they wouldn't no that's what it is they hate you what else could it be i've never gotten a blue check mark i don't want one now now to me it's the mark of the beast you got a blue check mark you know i'd be looking over my shoulder man i was like so now that's become kind of those those are the people that now risk being deplatformed because you have status right and so it's fun to bang against these people like fuck this guy i'm gonna bang against him so it's some human nature that is that just exists within us um like you, it would be really easy for me to go online, you know,

under whatever Twitter handle, Joe Rogan, you dick. I wouldn't say that to your face. Look at you. You know, beat me the fuck up. So, no. But people have no problem doing that anonymously. Yeah, they don't see you. They don't feel the – when people look at you in the eye and they act like an asshole,

like, they feel you. Like, what the fuck, man? It's like a natural human instinct to not do that. All the visual cues, the human interaction. That's how we're supposed to talk. You know the book, uh, Connection, Lost Connections, I think it's, um, Harari, I think is the guy's name. Lost Connections. He delves, that's the guy you should have on your show.

He delves into. The same guy wrote Sapiens? Maybe, I don't know. That's the guy you should have on your show. He delves into... The same guy who wrote Sapiens? Maybe. I don't know. What's his name? Noah Harari. Noah Yuval Harari. Is that him?

Look up Lost Connections. Johan Hari. Johan Hari. Yes. Oh, that's a different guy. He's been on the podcast. Hasn't Johan been on the podcast? Yes, yes.

That's right. Lost Connections. Twice, right? Okay. I missed that one. That human, your eyebrows. It's not just for

catching sweat dripping off your brow. It's for communication. Inquisitive. All this stuff. Cues. All these cues are not there.

The de-platforming is getting really preposterous too for things. You know, Zuby got de-platformed. He got kicked off of Twitter. This is things. You know Zuby got deplatformed? He got kicked off of Twitter? This is crazy. Who's Zuby?

Zuby is a musician. He's a rapper from the UK who's been on the podcast for me. I mean, the dude doesn't even swear, right? He's back on, so they suspended him temporarily. But this is why he got suspended. I forget if he was having a discussion online about something, and someone said, I bet I – you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, something to that regard. Like, I bet I sleep with more women than you do, to which he writes, okay, dude.

That's it. Uh-oh, transphobic. I mean, he didn't know. He said, I have no idea who that person was. Especially the UK. It's illegal. He said, I have no idea who that person was. I didn't know if it was a girl or a boy. Especially the UK, it's illegal.

The UK, you cannot transphobicize somebody, and you can actually get a visit from the cops. But he even made posts about it, like showing how ambiguous the problem is. Like, he couldn't figure out, he didn't know if it was a guy or a girl. He just, no, someone said that, and he was like, that's a ridiculous thing to say. I bet I sleep with more women than you. So he goes, okay, dude. Right. Like, he's a ridiculous thing to say. I bet I sleep with more women than you. So he goes, okay, dude. He's not even insulting the person. And they decided by him saying, okay, dude, that is grounds for being banned from Twitter temporarily.

That's madness. And then these people are laughing about it and making light of the fact they were able to do that. Because it's a game, right? They have a rock and they see a window. Of course it's a game. And they want to throw that rock. And they got them. It worked. They got them. They worked.

They got them kicked off temporarily. But that sends a weird signal to everyone else because it makes you self-censor. It's not healthy for anybody. It's also not really a sustainable business model long term. I mean, Twitter, because of this, the cancel culture, they said, we're not going to take any political ads. That's why Jack Dorsey is going to get kicked out. You see that ad? I mean, you see that new thing with a billionaire guy just bought a shitload of controlling stock.

Paul Singer, he is a huge part of the Republican financial engine. This guy has been – it's very interesting he's doing this now because he's an activist investor. And he's trying to get three or four board seats. He'll get them because of the amount of shares he's bought up, like a billion at least, because he sees the so-called bias against the right and he wants to skew that back. All of that is a failed mission. The advertisers eventually want no part of this they just don't want to have a part of it the future is some version of a federated system which exists today mastodon if you've heard of mastodon pause you for a second when you say the advertisers don't want a part of it

what they don't want controversy any controversy fuck no they don't want how they don't want organized attacks or bans they don't want they don't even want to be near it. Right. They don't want to be near it. It hurts. I mean, that's why you see quite the opposite. You'll see Procter & Gamble and all these big, you know, going way out virtue signaling as much as they can. Like, oh, you know, we're all, you know, Sports Illustrated is going to have, I think for the first time on the swimsuit issue, we'll have large women. I'm saying that because that's what issue, we'll have large women. I'm saying that because that's what they are.

They're large women. Are you allowed to say large still? I am. There might be a time where large becomes a problem. What are they going to do? Yeah, to whose? And I'm not saying that's good or bad, but they're being forced to do this. It's not an organic thing.

I'm not really a Sports Illustrated guy, but I just don't know. Was this something that the readers wanted? Maybe. I don't know. I doubt it. Again, it's not necessarily bad, but anything by force is shit. It's fucked up. Go broke. That's what it is. They're going to give it a chance, and no one's going to buy that episode. But that's another thing that

I like about your show is you're a man you're a dude you're not afraid of it you're not afraid to say it uh and i think it's very healthy and i'm sure you get all kinds of shit all the time from all kinds of people for all kinds of crazy reasons but it's important that we keep some of this just alive i get a lot of support i mean i'm sure you get some support some shit but i get way more support than i do shit yeah okay i get a lot of support i mean i'm sure you get some support some shit but i get way more support than i do shit yeah okay i'm a nice person i just happen to be a male and i think it's okay to be a man and this the whole toxic masculinity thing is so fucking ridiculous like

no there's bad people some of them are men there's bad women too like casey anthony it's a bad woman doesn't it's not a indictment against all women. And this idea that men and masculine behavior is somehow or another negative. No, negative people are negative. That's what it is. And this attack on men is so stupid. It's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. That's what it is.

It's just dumb. And it's dumb people that are doing it. And they're doing it in an articulate way and in a passionate way. And they're using all their verbal skills to try to argue it in a way that they seem to think that it's justifiable. But it's basically a tribal thing. And then what you see is you see big corporations who, if anything, want to be on the right side of history, they will never go against the mob. Of course. You just don't go.

And it's not even the full mob. Self-perpetuates. It's not even, it's like, it doesn't matter if 80% of the people are supporting you. 20% of the people not supporting you is a large number if they're active. And it's such a waste of time. Yeah, it is. So when are we smoking some weed? Because I'm about ready we can

do it right now now i will say beware my Tourette's will get significantly worse but that's fine but that can be entertaining well have you had that your whole life since i was i was diagnosed when i was seven i actually didn't know about it until my dad passed uh in uh november and uh jimmy where's that aluminum ashtray that was here and my uh which one this one there's a little one no that's not oh here this one oh there it is yeah yeah there we go and uh yeah a little joint right here and so he my sister you know was talking to him and wanted to know a couple things and and and she wrote up a little kind of like report and i was reading like oh fuck see adam was diagnosed at seven with mild Tourette's like they never even fucking told me thank you they didn't tell you no i've known it

because i got twitches and things and mtv was great for me because the segments were like a minute and a half and i can control it for a minute and a half but you know i'm always like typically i can see out of the corner of my eyes like not here but okay they got joe on screen so i could do all my things right we're back what what causes it yeah i don't know no one knows shit firing in your brain does anything comment uh well it's not no i mean i'm sure there's some crazy ass drugs but i won't do that of course. Well, you seem to have a very, very mild version of it. I mean, why would you fuck with your neurochemistry?

It's who I am. Yeah. So I'm 55. I don't give a shit anymore. Right. It's a part of me. I'm just saying it up front because you'd be like, what the fuck is Curry doing? Yeah.

That's why I love radio. I've always been a radio guy. I can be like ticking away and like no one sees me you know oftentimes if I'm doing a long thing I mean I'll just be like completely screw my eyes shut wide and I'll be into it and no one can see that right well there's something beautiful about audio only I mean I really enjoy doing audio and video together on this show but there is something pure is there tobacco in this oh no no no no why do you want some with tobacco in it? No, that's just weed. No, I stopped.

Yeah, that's why I pulled that one out. We have blunts here, which I like. Oh, I do. I've never done a blunt. I'd do one, but see how this goes. I'll give you a couple of minutes. See how that goes. And where's the Black Rifle coffee?

I mean, I got the turmeric stuff. Do you want some? Yeah, I'd love some. The turmeric, I'm just afraid my lips are going to look like I puked. Yeah, I know. It does, but it doesn't really show up. Oh, really? Yeah, not on camera. You get a little bit of a hue to your lips with the

turmeric, but that stuff's delicious. Turmeric is fantastic. Yeah. In the coffee with that layered Hamilton superfood blend, it's very, very tasty. Yeah. No, it tastes good. I like the taste. You're doing something good for your body. It's actually good for you. Legitimately. I tell you, man, that's the best thing for my body.

It is, right? I don't know the inside of a doctor's office or a hospital. I mean, I'm hanging together from THC. Texas is weird, though, right? You have to do medical? No, no, no. No medical, no nothing. It's free now?

No, no. It's illegal. Oh, everything. Even medical? Mm-hmm. God damn it. Mm-hmm. Jesus, Texas.

It's not like, well, in Austin, they've actually, they haven't really decriminalized, but they're like the cops. I mean, they really can't get away with letting people steal and rob and do crazy shit on the street. You know, it's like here in California, you can steal up to $950 and then also go busting people for weed. So they really got better things to do. So they're not really making a problem out of it. But it it's still a problem someone wants to find a reason to arrest you absolutely that's then it becomes an issue absolutely it's just sad that texas which is one of the most free places in the world you can have a fucking giraffe in your backyard you can't smoke a joint but it'll change it's inevitable it'll change it's interesting you know, growing up in the Netherlands where marijuana was never legal.

It was just, they called it, which means we look the other way and it's okay. That's basically what it is. And, you know, it was limited to coffee shops where you can sell it. That's still kind of that way. You're not actually allowed to produce it, but okay. The Netherlands, Holland is a narco state. I mean, all your ecstasy comes from there.

Oh, yeah, everything is shipped through the Netherlands. That explains all the techno. Of course. It was techno came with its own drug. Dutch kickboxers were famous for coming out to techno music. Yeah. Like Holland, I don't know if you know, is like the birthplace of some of the greatest kickboxers of all time.

Not really MMA. Well, I knew some MMA guys. There's some MMA guys from Holland, but it's really famous for kickboxing. Okay, I didn't know it was kickboxing. Yeah. I really don't know shit about it, but I do know that a lot of guys there have become very famous. Like, it's the greatest of all time. It's a crazy pool of talent that came out of Holland.

Yeah. Yeah, like Ramon Deckers and rob cayman and ernesto hoost and peter ertz like the names of these dutch guys these off savage dutch guys and everybody was like how holland like what what's happening over there it's uh it's a very interesting country i'm very glad i i grew up there um because it gave me a worldview, I think, that is incomparable. So the drugs has never been a problem. You could walk into a bar at 13, look like you were 15. That's changed now.

Look like you were 15, you could drink, drink beers, order a beer. How old do you have to be to drink? Well, now they've changed it to 18, 21, depending on where you are. But it used to be 16 kind of yeah it was very loose i mean once the eu came into play and they had to harmonize and become the same as all the countries around it which is not actually true because portugal um decriminalize everything yeah they uh they decriminalized i think maybe 15 years ago and yeah spectacular results but you can't really sell it but you can get a prescription for almost everything,

including heroin. So they've changed kind of that. Yeah, people have a really hard time with that. But hey, look, we're not putting a dent in heroin, folks. It's going the other way. I mean, when I was a kid, I never thought we'd have a heroin uptick in this country. When I was a kid, everybody thought of heroin as the stuff that killed Jimi Hendrix and stay the fuck away from it. Right.

And people overdose, and then they die. Once you start shooting a needle, boy, you fucked up. Like, don't go that route. You could never even imagine putting the needle in your arm. That was, like, not even an imaginable thing. It has the worst PR representation of all time. It's killed some of our greatest rock stars. Janis Joplin dead

all these people kurt cobain commit suicide had a problem with heroin classically uh lead singer of alex and chains lane staley right heroin so many of these guys yeah and the guys who kicked it who come back from it will tell you jesus christ i was in satan's lap like he had a grip on me i could not get free yeah meanwhile, it's got an uptick So what's the solution? The solution is clearly not business as usual That's like the debt, you know, what is that expression the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over getting a different result Yeah, we know now that we have a problem. I don't know if legalizing it is the only way to fix it but To make it illegal. You're just propping up organized

crime that's all you're doing you're not stopping people from doing it because these people there's a giant percentage of them that are doing stuff that a pharmaceutical company made that they got illegally now they're selling illegally they've become drug dealers whether it's the cartels or or other people but joe um you know we had the financial crash in 2008 yeah uh i don't think the trillions that we put in really saved us i think the drug trade in general was the only thing that kept the economy running at the time i mean this is so big the money in drugs is so astronomical it's you don't even you can't even fathom how big it is. It's bigger than a lot of so many industries pale in comparison.

I mean, HSBC was literally laundering the money from Mexico with drug dealers just coming up on the Mexican side, throwing millions of dollars a day into the deposit. It got pushed out the other way into the legal system. James Comey was running that at the time. Jesus, James. He was well aware. It's just nuts how much money is involved in it and how many people look away. People are trying to stop different flavored tobacco smoke. I see you're a vapor well

that that i actually looked into that very very deeply this this was that the tobacco industry had a problem the problem was this i i kick the cigarettes with this because it's just you know you can have nicotine in it or not but you know it's not and if you had any health consequences from using that thing zero keep hearing about people getting lung issues. Well, okay, so a couple things happened. The lung issues, and I don't know who you know personally, but there was a— I don't know anybody personally. There was a scare, and the scare killed a couple of people, like 10 people.

And what it turned out was that was people who had vaped THC cartridges. And some—you know, the people who put the, you buy your THC cartridge from a dispensary here, it's actually packaged by somebody else, not by that person. So you have, you know, King World or whatever, these different, you know, that's kind of a reputable brand, but it's packaged somewhere else. That means putting it, you know, putting the stuff in, and they put in some vitamin E acetate. And that just kind of like created a wet you know heat that up and became a web of some shit inside your lung and fucked you up so that's a bad thing but had nothing to do with vaping nicotine with with the typical chemicals that you get from reputable

companies can i ask you this is the the the vaping from marijuana with their process is more problematic than uh vaping of tobacco well it certainly was in that case because someone changed the formula then you need to have some some oil in there in order to keep it you know liquid and for it to you know just for it to be able to go into the vape and not the issue was actually the vitamin e oil yes yes and so that stopped of course somewhere someone did something shitty and that happened. You know, a really high guy actually said this to me once. He told me that he uses organic MCT oil for his vapes and he was like handing me his vape.

I'm like, bro, I'm not sucking on your vape. I don't even know you. You could be a crazy person. You could be DMT vapes. They have DMT vapes now. Somebody hands you a vape pen, you might be going into vapes they have dmt vapes now ah that's somebody hands you a vape pen you might be going into orbit for 20 minutes yeah for 20 minutes while you're driving oh you know well i think you know i've flown a helicopter high on dmt no no on uh weed oh that's a different animal

yeah with an instructor you know he wanted to see how i did it and it was perfect yeah i play pool which is a very sensitive thing. Not quite the same as death by helicopter. It's not, but you're controlling the rotations of a ball. It's very delicate. Yeah, isn't that nice? Literally, the amount of effort you put, if you watch a good player, the amount of effort they put really accurately depicts how many revolutions of the cue ball.

I'm sure, yeah. And after it's colliding with the object ball, and you get more sensitive to that when you're high. Yeah. Jiu-jitsu is another one. A lot of people do jiu-jitsu high. Really? Yep.

Interesting. It's really, really, really common. Guys smoke out in the parking lot and then go roll. It's really common. Well, I did the most perfect landing ever when I did the helicopter. Probably super into it. Oh, and it's very small input.

The helicopter, you've seen it and it's very small input the helicopter you've seen it it's very very small anyway so the tobacco industry had a real issue and that also comes back to the states because there's this master agreement that was put in place decades ago that tobacco companies would pay a percentage

of their sales to all states to pre-compensation for whatever fucked up shit people get from smoking tobacco. And all these states wrote big bonds against that money. And so when the income from the tobacco companies was decreasing significantly because of vaping, all of a sudden the states are going, especially this one, what the fuck? These bonds are going to become go bust. When you have your state bond go bust, this is a real problem. It's a financial issue. States and cities and everything go broke.

So everyone had an incentive to get rid of vaping and get people back on tobacco. So Altria bought jewel the the vape the vape that's i mean this isn't this is you know hardcore this is you know got a battery it's all technical you get the vape juice jewel is a pre-packaged product kids were buying it like like what's the benefit of that over a jewel uh you can control how much the draw is dudes that look like dragons. They blow these gigantic. And you can put

whatever you want in it, not just limited by what jewel wants to sell you. We got some coffee. Black rifle coffee in the house. It comes with... Nice. The mug is yours too.

Oh, thank you. You can keep that mug. I want one of yours though. Do you have a mug? Do you make a No Agenda mug? So noagendashop.com, which we don't run. Oh. And they just send a donation from time to time.

You can get mugs and t-shirts and all kinds of stuff. Really? So they just sell your shit and occasionally give you money? No, no. Yeah. So what they do is they go to the art generator. They get images off of that. Then they put it on t-shirts, mugs, hats, whatever.

They sell it, give a third to the artist. They they keep a third and they eventually give us some money okay but you know we've always said no just do whatever you want that's beautiful we don't care it's a kismet is a kismet kiretsu i mean that's a better word i don't know what either one of those mean do you know what those i don't know either just sounding of those mean. Do you know what those mean? I don't know either. It just sounded cool. What does it mean? That's like something Larry Ellison would say. Isn't kiretsu when two companies agree in Japan to do some kind of business together without a contract? Kiretsu. Kiretsu. Yeah. Those are nice contracts.

Verbal ones from PWE Trust. Cheers, sir. Yeah. Glad we got together to do this. Likewise. It's way overdue. Way overdue. For sure.

But those are good relationships when you have a relationship with someone and you don't have any paperwork. You just like each other. Dvorak and I, eventually we had to do an LLC because the IRS was going, I don't understand. People send in checks. They do PayPal. They give cash.

So we had all. And they're just like, can you just make it a little simpler? Can we just cut it down the middle? Because there's no one else involved. Yeah. But otherwise, we just had a handshake for a decade. It's like, you didn't ask me to sign. Oh, is this my release?

Yeah, that's my release. I was like, you didn't ask me to... Oh, is this my release? Yeah, that's my release. Yeah, I was like, you didn't ask me to sign a release, you fucker. Okay. Wow, look at this whole thing here. We made that just in case. Because you don't want to get sued by somebody. Yeah, well, you can, you know.

Of course. This is a weird world. Yeah, particularly. Well, you got celebrity guests on. Yeah. The only thing I have to be careful about is slander, I guess. Yeah. Anyway, back to the, because you'll like this story.

Okay. So tobacco states, everyone's keyed up. They buy Juul for $18 billion. They buy it as a write-off. They want to get this company out of the market. Really? Then they go to the FDA and they start all this shit about flavors, flavors, flavors, flavors. You saw it everywhere.

It was massive. It was a perfect storm. We got 10 people dying from vaping something completely unrelated, but vaping, e-cigarettes. He had an e-cigarette,

he died. It was actually, yeah, he vaped, but he vaped a bad THC cartridge and got a severe problem. So you know how the media plays that. And it just kept on spinning and spinning. They're like, well, we have to stop children.

And the way you stop it is by taking away the flavors because children, they want flavors. That's what the problem is. So that fucked Juul over. And actually, Altria, they bought Philip Morris, basically. So it's the biggest tobacco company. They already wrote down half of it like just taking the fucking l on it they want to get rid of it because in the wings they had their competing product which is iqos i quit ordinary smoking small i capital qos and it heats tobacco so it's a it looks like a vape pen

it has but it actually runs on tobacco, and it doesn't burn it. It heats it up, has whatever, some kind of mechanism in the filter. You inhale, and it's almost their dream, which is the smokeless cigarette, very close to it. But most importantly, it's not a nicotine, synthetic nicotine. It is tobacco product, which is their business. And they really ratcheted this up so high that they got Trump involved. And Trump actually, with Melania, they did a thing with Alex Azar, the Health and Human Services Secretary. He said, well, this vaping is very dangerous. We have a kid. Actually, it was one of those moments where everyone loves to jump on Trump.

He said, Melania has a kid. He forgot to say it was his, whatever it was. And now he's actually been overheard saying, I wish I'd never gotten involved in that fucking thing because he figured it out. He figured out it was a huge scam. has been stopped, but now they're still trying to push through a bill that will help the tobacco companies even more by outlawing any type of flavored e-cigarettes or juice liquid. They just want to get rid of it. So it's really like who killed the electric car? It's exactly that. And they just, go look at it now, IQOS, they're launching, there's news stories today that say, oh my God, it's the saving grace.

We have the new product we've all been waiting for. Right at the moment that vaping is going to kill you, it's hooking children because of flavors. So do you think they're hiring people to write news stories and the news organizations are picking you up because they're being told to do this? They just do a press release. To do a press release, come on. It's so easy in the media to do a press release come on it's so easy in the media to do a press release and um oh by the way

we're altria uh so we're gonna buy uh 500 million dollars worth of advertising over the next five years would you please run our story or you know you might want to look at this come on it's tobacco so do you think that they make a deal before they accept the press release to do advertising or do they wait a little bit you know it's You don't even have to say anything. It's just the... It's implied. Why do you not hear the discussion about over-medication of

children on television? Look at the number one advertiser. If you start talking, it's just not discussed. Because it is a controversial subject and it would be a good subject for television because it would get a lot of people paying attention to it. It would get a lot of ratings

if you have a lot of stories about over-medication of children. People would be like, what is going on? It would be something people would be interested in. And yet, they don't do it. Because the advertising... I mean, just look at your advertising. I have to turn off The sound these days

Because I'm sure That I'm being blanketed With so many ads That eventually I'm going to get Propecia Eventually I'm going to get High blood pressure

My dick's not going to work Because that's what You're telling you Every Commercial block Everyone It's pharmaceutical Until

You know like Cable news especially Because it's an older demographic But even if Watch What is it What do they have It's pharmaceutical until, you know, like cable news, especially because an older demographic. But even if you watch, what is it? What do they have? Where they have two and a half men running all TV land. Two and a half men.

And what's the other one? Doug and Carrie. I love that. Come on. Kevin James. Two and a half men? No, no, no. Doug and Carrie.

Where's the UPS driver? Oh, King of Queens. King of Queens, yeah. But I don't watch sitcoms anymore. I can watch that. That's a funny show. I can just watch it over and over again. Kevin's a good dude. And a very funny guy.

But then every commercial break, boom. Drugs. Yeah, which documentary was it that had a description about the United States saying that we are one of two countries in the world that allows advertising. Yes, I think Australia is the other. I think it's New Zealand. Okay. It's either Australia or New Zealand.

Sorry, either one, because that's like a real fuck up. It is, yeah. Call out the wrong one of those two. I'm pretty sure it's New Zealand. But that, for whatever reason, everybody else is like, what are you, crazy? And once we got it in there, it's like, once something becomes something that everybody does, it's really difficult to fix. It's crazy that we do that.

I'm going to get you a blunt. But this coffee, by the way, is phenomenal. Yeah, it's legit. You are legit, man. That is Black Rifle Coffee. Black Rifle Coffee, shout out to Evan and Matt. Is it the vets who do that? Yes, Evan Hafer and Matt Best.

That's pretty good, though. What is this? I don't know what that is. It's weed. My mother would roll over in her grave if she saw this. She doesn't like it? Well, she's dead. Oh, but she didn't like it?

She would just be like, I don't, you know. It's your mom, Joe. I mean, it's like, you know. My mom smokes pot. Yeah, my mom was not a pot smoker. My parents were hippies. I grew up with the Emily Post etiquette, you know. Oh, okay.

I still, if a woman comes in, I'll stand up at the table. Oh, good for you. Well, in Texas, that's, I love that, one of the things that I really love about Austin in particular is it's kind of a hybrid of hippies and Texas people. And that's how I feel. And I like that. I like having guns. I like the whole idea of protecting my family and being able to take out an evil government.

I like that. Whoa. Well, that's what it's for. Right. The Second Amendment is to protect the First Amendment. That's my view. And we got a culture. We have a gun culture in

texas so and also people are really nice in the car to each other yeah it's like go ahead man you might have a fucking gun everybody's got go ahead i don't after you bro it's fine no one's really there's no real road rage well there's that expression right a well-armed society is a polite society now i'm not saying that that's my rainbows and unicorn vision of the world. I'm not either. But it works. Yes, it does work. It does work.

There's places where people are armed that it's a really nice place to be. It doesn't mean bad things can't happen there. And when a bad thing does happen, this stuff, I like it, right? Yeah, I've never done a blunt. Oh, it's good, right? Charlie Murphy got me into these. So that's a pre-made blunt? Yeah, Charlie would actually make them. So how much tobacco is in there versus? It's the leaf on the outside.

Is it rolled on the thighs of virgins? I don't believe so. Oh, like Bill Hicks' bit? I don't know Bill Hicks' bit. I do know that some Cohibas are supposed to be rolled on the thighs

of virgins. Is that what they said? Well, it's marketing. Hicks had a bit about... It's good marketing. Yeah, I forget what it was. Rolled with Claudia Schiffer's pussy lips. I think that's what he said. I've never been into her. marketing hicks had a bit about good marketing yeah i forget what it was rolled with claudia schiffer's pussy lips i think that's what he said i've never been into her i never i thought

in the day she's hot yeah she's hot definitely skinny yeah but um it's um wasn't she married to david copperfield is she still with him or was with him for a long time i don't know i try not to pay attention to his fucking who it seems like Jamie's in It was a while ago Jamie will tell you Any kind of celebrity This or that That's going down I don't know

It was a long time ago I don't know shit She still looks hot though I saw a picture of her Some of them gals Can keep it together Good skin Yeah

Good skin Drinks a lot of water Good habits I guess So Back to the Vape pen thing. Yeah. So someone needs to make a documentary.

That is a crazy little sneaky move, or at least a YouTube video. That's a very – it's probably better. It's a multi-billion dollar scam propagated against multiple states in the United States and free choice of consumers, all to protect an industry that essentially we're trying to get away with with vaping. Yeah. Because I've been an addicted smoker all my life. Smoked cigarettes from at least 15 probably earlier. Then luckily got into weed and been smoking all my life pretty much. But I still would roll it with tobacco, which does give you an extra delivery mechanism, an extra kind of kick.

Yeah. But then I would just from time to time just smoke one, a cigarette. First of all, it's chemicals and all kinds of bullshit is in there. Stinks up the house. I want to live longer. So is this great? No, I'm sure it isn't. You look very good for a person who smoked a long time.

I'm 55. You look great for 55. Thank you. You really isn't You look very good for a person who's smoked a long time I'm 55 You look great for 55 Thank you You really do You look a lot younger than that I think if you took me and compressed me down I'd look like you You've got these really long muscles

If you push it all down, it would be better Yeah, but your health You look like a healthy person You look like you're doing well So I do the dancing And I go to ride indoor cycling I do spin That's excellent

Oh my god But it's more like a dance Kind of oriented one Music And it's just fucking loud music And it's all in rhythm And you've kind of got A group vibe going on

And cardio of course Is fantastic They also do weights Oh cool Three pound weights There's something really cool About doing stuff with a group of people you know any kind of difficult thing everybody's pushing everybody

come on let's go it's fun and so a lot of spin classes are really that really competitive like you see the peloton ads like but that's not what this is this is you do you're standing you're sitting you're tapping back you're doing uh crunch crunch, you're doing push-ups, all to the beat. So the faster the beat, of course, the faster you're doing it. So it's like dancing, but then on a bike. And I like being yelled at in a dark room. Right, boot camp vibe. So I don't have my hearing aids in i don't have my glasses

on so i'm kind of like you're blurry right now but i can't see so i can't see the hottie instructor up there it doesn't make any difference there's just something about the vibe so i get into it yeah tell me about the hearing aids because you took them out when you got in oh put the headphones on and this is from listening to music too loud. No. You'd think. You'd think. You'd think. No. I have a genetic problem that I didn't know about until three years ago. And so it's not. And I went to an audiologist.

Well, here's what happened. I started noticing Tina and I had been together for a couple of years. I started noticing I was saying, excuse me, what? I wouldn't hear stuff. Or she would say something that I couldn't remember hearing. And I brought it up to her and I said, do you think I ask you to repeat something a lot? She says, no, it doesn't really bother me. And then she says, but the TV is very loud.

I said, really? The TV is very loud. I said, oh, I don't even realize that. So I went to an audiologist, and lo and behold, my grandmother on my dad's side was completely deaf almost from her teens. So I have some of this, but it's been okay, only as you get older, everything, the levels, you see like here's a level where you can hear everything,

and I was already kind of there. So now it's just due to age, just everything goes down a bit. And so I'm missing 1K and 1 kilohertz. I'm missing different tones. And so I went to an audiologist and said, well, it's very mild. But, yeah, this can make you repeat stuff. And it will get worse over time. And what actually happens to a lot of men in particular is they become very isolated from the world.

They don't even realize that they have a hearing problem. And now the difference between having them in and taking them out is massive. Just, you know, I can hear how much less it is. Another clue was that I have a, for all my podcast radio work, I have a headphone, but I put an extra amplifier on it. You can still hear it today. Sometimes I'm talking and it'll leak just a little bit because I have it so loud. Now, that's not going to damage my ears, but the problem with anything you put in your ears, you can't hear the sound anymore.

And I like our processing, our EQ. It's very important to me. So I can hear that without the hearing aids but not with the hearing aids oh that's interesting so the hearing aids give you a different kind of sound well so today's hearing aid is not your your grandpa's you know geriatric brown goopy looking piece of shit that makes you look like a just a total moron like how dare you you did the face i did the face hey i. I did the face. Hey, I have disability here. I get a victim card.

Okay. You could get probably a plate. Boundaries, Adam. Special plate. Boundaries. Okay. So these are the Widex Evoke. These have 35 channels of compressor limiter, multiple settings.

It's an in-ear, so it goes right into my ear. I still have a little bleed through from the outside world. Usually, an audiologist sticks this thing in your ears and makes you do all the tests. Then they'll sit there, and they'll sit across from you, and they're going to program it so that you can then hear normal sound. You have to be a trained professional. It's very hard to fix someone who has never heard what is proper. Oh, wow. Okay?

Now, I'm a little different, and I'm also way into sound. And so it's a whole racket. These things are $3,500. It's a huge racket. And the way they do it is the manufacturer, you can't buy it from them directly or from retail. You can only buy it through an audiologist. So they're already getting half the money you know the 1500 at least and you have to have a an appointment so there's all this money that goes on top and then

you come back after a couple months and they tweak it you come back again so i said look see who i am i've told you what i do give me the fucking software she said oh no no i was going to give it to you i just wanted to do one session with you. I said, you have to have this. So I have pre-programmed like six different programs. So I can do one just for music. I can do one for television, one for social situations. And I have one that, and so I did it all myself, all these 35 different channels of compressor limiter. So when I'm walking around, what I hear on my ears is like a radio show. Like the sound, like when I'm talking right now, I hear my own voice. It all resonates because I've jacked all that up.

So I've made my own reality of sound. Wow. But I also have one, I can set it to a setting in the mall i can hear a conversation from 50 feet away whoa it was my my special my eavesdropping setting now the only thing that doesn't work is you can't have headphones because that that doesn't work having the the hearing aids in with the headphones with the sound yeah because you're blasting into the microphone and it really doesn't work. That's crazy, though, that you can hear people having a conversation 50 feet away. Can you focus in on people?

By turning my head? Yeah, by turning my head. Wow. I mean, there's a lot you can focus. You can have it automatic. So the problem is, the way I've set it up, you can drop a pen there if I don't see it. I might hear it over there. Now, that's always going to be a problem.

They have an algorithm that will try to guess where the sound is from and tell your ears that. So, basically, I'm not the guy you want in the battlefield. Telling you where the shots are being fired from. Oh, my God. That's hilarious. I just can't hear it. Wow.

But just for – yeah, so it just doesn't work with headphones that's why i take them out it's amazing though they sound incredibly potent like oh yeah you you remember i mean you know what real sound sounds yes yes everything sound real to you or is there a well what you automatically do, because I was able to do it, I have different settings for different situations. So if I'm at home, it's relatively quiet, or we have some music on or TV or whatever. Now I have the TINA frequency, which is kind of like one kilohertz,

and that's where I hear her better. And so that's jacked up a little bit. And then if I hear you talk, I can hear it's not exactly you. It's a little too tinny maybe. But that's just me. I mean, that's not everyone's experience, of course. But to me, the disability has become an incredible joy because I have virtual reality on my head all the time. Yeah, I was just saying that.

You could probably fuck with someone's voice like a Snapchat filter and make them sound like a cartoon. It's really advanced. I mean, you can connect to an iPhone, so you can stream wirelessly. You can do, like, if you're driving with directions with the maps, then you can just be talking, and in your ear, all of a sudden, it's like, get the light, turn right. No one else hears it there's no wires no nothing I got you know

you wouldn't even know I had them in unless you look yeah we're becoming cyborgs oh no that's although I'm against it

that is a part of the road to transhumanism right but how can you say you're against it where you're enjoying this thing this to me is more

it's not a replacement, it's an enhancement. That's how they're going to get us. When the first dude gets his legs removed for artificial carbon fiber legs that you can feel but that can run 60 miles an hour, when the first guy gets his legs removed in favor of new legs, that's when we're going to go, holy shit. Whenever I tell my radio buddies about my hearing aids, they're always like, oh, that's fucking cool.

It's cool. I want that, too. I want that. Don't get me wrong. I'm just looking at the bleak landscape ahead of us. By the way, beware. I just want to say something because there's a lot of, they're not called hearing aids.

They're called hearing amplifiers. They have some fuzzy legal language that are coming on the market that you put all the way in your ear, the rechargeables. They've got a whole bunch of them. They're much, much cheaper. From an audio standpoint, I've done it for 40 years. That's not the way you want to go if you seriously want to know how to – if you want to hear properly again. So see an audiologist is what I'm saying. And there's lots of different – it it doesn't it's not all three and a half thousand dollars

it's more expensive but don't i just recommend that that's self-testing is not a good idea one of the best pool players in the world is a guy named shane van boning and shane is uh deaf he was born deaf and when he plays he shuts his his hearing aids off. And it's a world of silence. And he's just playing in complete, total silence. And when he does that, when he shuts his hearing aid off, he feels like he's got super concentration. Like it doesn't matter what else is going on. All he's doing is just focusing on the balls. And that sense doesn't exist.

So he's hyper-focused on other things. And I notice that sometimes when I walk with noise-canceling headsets on. Same thing. It'll do similar. I'll smell things more. Well, that's kind of well-known is that different parts of your body compensate for if something's missing. You're more tuned in. You're more tuned in.

Like, look, let's pay attention here. The ears are offline. A mountain lion could be running behind you and you're listening to fucking all things considered. And that's, you know, but that's, think about it. If you can't hear the mountain lion frequencies anymore and today's mountain lion is, you know,

car engines, all kinds of stuff. You can't hear it. It's dangerous. It is. And you don't know. You just slip into it. I had no idea until, you know, we have a new relationship, you know,

so we've been living together for a couple of years and luckily, you know, we have a new relationship, you know, so we've been living together for a couple of years. And luckily, you know, we're completely open and honest. Like, hey, is this fucked up? Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. It's so cool that that exists, though. I mean, that's an elegant solution. And for someone like you, it actually gives you a chance to tinker with shit. And I'm sure you really enjoy that aspect of it.

Yeah. Yeah, you love that. I really do. I can tell when you talk about it. It's a small thing. Even when you're talking about the apps on your phone, you're so you love that. I really do. I can tell when you talk about it. It's a small thing. Even when you're talking about the apps on your phone, you're so excited about that. Just that whole band, like, okay, let's turn this up.

Do you use Unix or Linux? Are you one of those dudes? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're deep. Oh, yeah. ThinkPad? Are you a ThinkPad guy?

No, I'm not that deep. I actually love the... I'm deep. I'm not that deep. I actually love the... I'm deep. I'm not that deep. I used to be a Mac guy, and then Mac started fucking up their USB interfaces, and I got tired of it. And then I went to Windows. A lot of the top DJs, like the Danger Mouse and these guys, were all going Windows for audio. I'm like, oh, check it out.

And there's some good devices available, and so I made this transition. And then I was kind of on Windows. I'm like, holy fuck. Microsoft is spying on everything. Windows 10, there's like a hundred different telemetry pieces of shit going out every single day. They're just like Apple, by the way. They're advertising to you like, oh, use Word over here and try out this. It's just I can't stand it.

I can't stand that, you know, I have to have an account to use Microsoft Word. I don't want it. It's just I can't stand it. I can't stand that I have to have an account to use Microsoft Word. Right. I don't want it. It's just no one else's business. And so I bought the Surface Go, which is a 10-inch screen. It's a tablet but has a clip-on keyboard. And I just load Ubuntu, which is a lightweight version of Ubuntu. And I use that.

Which is Linux. Yeah. Yeah Yeah it's Linux Tell those people out there That don't know shit The only problem Well the only problem Is that there really is No good multi-track

Audio solution for Linux It just Please don't email me I've been I've been following this shit For decades It's not there You don't know what

You're talking about It's just You know it's an issue With companies not wanting To do drivers and there being no platform. But that's too bad, so I still produce our show on Windows. But the rest of my life is all Linux and my flip phone. Is that your desktop there? It's just a Lubuntu.

I just picked it up. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. That's the idea. What do you use for a word processor if you don't use Word? Libre Office. Libre Office? What is Libre Office?

I just have to laugh at it. It's like a Dvorak and I. We've tried to move to Linux so many times. It always be like, hey, man, I'm going to, 10 years ago, I'm going to install Linux. Okay. I couldn't get the screen to work, you know, whatever shit it was. Because I'm not, you know, we're just hacking around. And then, like, in the last year, I said, I'm going to try it again.

And it stuck. And I'm like, it worked. It's good enough. And now we're like, yes, our official distro is Linux Mint 19. That's the one you all want to have. And by the way, have your kid learn how to install it on some old computer. It'll teach the kid something. And so LibreOffice has just been this running joke. Because Libre means free and kind of like this lovey-dovey. kid learn how to install it on some old computer it'll teach the kid something and so libra office

has just been this running joke because libra means free and you know kind of like this lovey dovey because it is it's a free as in free open open source software yeah i think i know some people get attached that microsoft hit in terms of like office suite and all the different things but well i just use word that's really basically. Well, and you can save in Word format. It doesn't make any difference. I think it's just a really good, as far as a word processing, that's all I think about.

How well does it do the job? For me, it's information management and email. I use ClauseMail, and you can really customize it. So I have filters and like cording commands commands so I can, by doing this, then it'll send back a message like, hey, man, thanks for this, and then it'll forward a copy to the back office and save it unread in the show folder, you know, like that kind of stuff.

If you want to get balls deep into the world of computer technology, it's a long river. There's a lot of stuff to know. I've been using, my first computer was the Sinclair ZX80. Sinclair ZX80, I never even heard of it. And I built my own modem, which was, I think, basically like, I don't know, five baud, I guess. And it was an acoustic modem. So we basically ripped open a phone, put the two pieces in boxes,

and then put another handset on top. Here, Jamie's got it. That's it, man. That's it. Sinclair ZX80. Dude, and you did that at five baud. I remember when you switched from 14-4. That was way before.

And then my dad always had computers around the house, and I was online very early in. That's amazing. Look at that thing. So I was hacking with that stuff. Wow. And then the Trash 80, TRS-100, which was kind of a laptop on batteries, VIC-20, Commodore 64. So when this first started happening and you started going on Usenet and you started getting a taste of the internet like my experience was aol i got a i picked up an apple home computer from one of

them office stores whatever the chain was i don't think they're around anymore it was like so it was actually oh comp usa oh yeah it was remember that that's what it was of course so uh computer superstore yeah my friend robbie used to actually make computers or sell computers for a living, so he was telling me what to get. And I got home, and I somehow or another connected to AOL. And then I remember going. The first thing I did was go and try to find UFO files. That's all I was trying to find.

Like, what are the government's files on UFOs? I want to read whatever the fuck you can read. I want to know what they know. I was downloading all this shit from these like crude aol boards and like these online searches where you could online search things you just archie yeah you would get all the paperwork remember archie the search engine archie i don't remember archie and then you had veronica they would search different types of servers remember gopher do you ever get into Gopher? Gopher, I don't remember either. So check this out.

Jamie does. Jamie's not. So Gopher was basically the World Wide Web, only there was no web. And so you could log on to a terminal, and you could use a menu system, so basically with the arrow keys. But you go to the right, and you might be connecting to a different computer at a different university i.e a different server and then you could have a so it was basically all these um information documents linking to each other and i started one i registered mtv.com which was wow and i went to him and said hey i want to uh i'm gonna do this thing on the internet uh where a lot of our audience is uh and i want to register MTV.com.

Yeah, that's cool. Don't worry about it. We have the AOL keyword. So you go ahead and do your little internet thing there, son. Do whatever you want. We have the AOL keyword. It's literally what they say. We got it locked up, bro.

We got the internet figured out. So I had this go, and I'm promoting it on air. Go to MTV.com for my Gopher server. It was wild. You could do shit then at MTV. Yeah. And in fact, at first I got an email from the university of michigan the gophers is that their symbol i don't

know michigan you michigan minnesota minnesota oh my god thank you um and they said dude you're using this commercially you have to pay us five thousand dollars for a license i'm like just for the server software which is open you, free, but something in the license. I'm doing this just on my own. They don't give a fuck. I'm just doing this. I don't have $5,000. I really didn't.

I don't have $5,000. I said, if you send me a t-shirt, I'll wear it on MTV. And they said, okay. And I said, I have a document. You can see there's a video on YouTube of me with a Gopher t-shirt on MTV. And they were like, oh, man. That's awesome. So anyway.

That's cool on them, too. So I got this set up. And then I got an email from this guy in Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. And he's like, hey, Adam, see what you're doing with MTV.com. Look, I got this thing that I've created, this mosaic browser. And can you install the server, HTTPD 1.4 or whatever. And that was Mark Andreessen, the guy who went on to create Netscape. Wow.

And, you know, it's now one of the biggest VC in Silicon Valley. And when I saw that, I said, oh, shit, this is like graphic, like a web page. Remember we used to, images would take a long time to load. Oh, yeah. First it would be black and white, progressively loading. It would become color. Like a porn picture. Took an hour to download.

Just like bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. Yeah, I remember the first time a friend sent me a porn video. He's like, look at this. I was like, what? They can send a video now? What was it? Do you remember what it was? It was a girl giving a guy a blowjob.

And it only lasted like 15 seconds Oh of course And that was And it took you Two hours to download Forever Forever to download Remember on Usenet

You would download From 15 different things And you'd get like All these different files And you had a program That put it back together That's crazy Crazy shit

What is this? The gopher t-shirt Oh there you are Hey everybody Hold on Let me put the I want to see that What is this? The gopher t-shirt. Oh, there you are. Hey, everybody. Hold on. Let me put the glasses on. Hold on.

I want to see that. Look at you, dude. Oh, my God. Do those days... Seattle on the musical map. Keep it here. Keep it here, everybody. Do those days feel like a different human being when you look back at that? That's a long-ass time ago and because of the time yes i'm sure mtv was like back then and just life back then i mean well

don't you have that yourself just with age i mean yeah i mean so of course but yeah it's it's all still a part of me that mtv period is so definitively closed because it's just not that will never come back yeah i mean it was a magical time it was fun and to this day it can be in the oddest places it's usually a guy in a suit and tie good reflexes bro oh that i have yeah i can catch things like people drop a a bottle i catch it on the way down that's superpower. You get Tourette's and you get a superpower. That's my catching stuff. It's super reflexive. Sorry, go ahead.

Usually a guy in a suit and tie. And all of a sudden it's like, fucking headbanger's ball, man. And the tie comes off and like a Metallica t-shirt. That's hilarious. I love that. And we share that. And that's a shared experience that only our generation has. And then once BET started getting the,

AMTV had to buy BET because they were getting world premieres from Michael Jackson. So that was the whole thing there. And it just got commoditized. They were so smart to go long. They did the smartest. The people who were running at the time were very smart to go with long form programming. They saw it with remote control.

And, of course, they already had seen a little bit of it with what's the first reality show they had? I forget what it's called. The Real World? Real World. Yeah. So they, you know, because the MTV ratings during the day were 0.5, basically. And I was always proud that I would sometimes break one. But I had interesting shows that people liked to watch, like Dial MTV.

That was the precursor to Total Request Live, Carson Daly's show. So I did that. And that was just the top ten of the day. But people had the idea that they were making a difference In the chart Which they weren't Because it was number one Can you guess what was number one requested

Every single day New Kids on the Block And they It was the biggest problem in MTV Sometimes they just did Oh they didn't make it on Or we're not playing anything under number five today. Oh, new kids on the block are six.

Gee. Which it was kind of bullshit. Kind of bullshit. Didn't that come up recently with Justin Bieber with Twitter? Like when Twitter trending topics started. Trending, yeah. They couldn't figure out what to do. He trended so hard on Twitter.

They had to stop him from being number one. What? He probably still would being number one. What? He probably still would be number one. Or like Taylor Swift or Beyonce, someone would be up there all the time. Of course. Well, if anyone has any idea that this is fair, these rankings and ratings, fuck that. It's still weird. It's all weird because everybody's competing.

Hey, Joe, this is really nice. Yeah, it is. I'm having a really good time. I am too. I'm really happy you're here. I was really excited about this. I've always wanted to be part of kind of the pirate crew out here. And now I feel like I've kind of connected.

I swear to God, we didn't try to be a pirate crew. That's what's the weirdest thing about the whole thing. There was no thought about it at all. I just kept doing it. There was never a plan. I mean, as far as the plan is making this building, that was kind of a plan. Right, which is incredible. I mean, it's just beautiful to see. I love it. You got a clubhouse. It's a fun clubhouse. Like an honest-to-God, grown- kind of a plan. Right. Which is incredible and it's just beautiful to see.

I love, you got a clubhouse. It's a fun clubhouse. Like an honest to God grown up dude clubhouse. Yeah. It feels good in this place. It's got good memories.

It's got a good feel to it. But through your show, you know, you've introduced, I would say mainly the comedians has been the best. And thank God for Netflix

and all the stuff that's happening. It's just, this is kind of the nucleus of it all. Yeah. And it's a lot, it's interesting to be able to see and watch. I think comedians change the world when they're good at it and when they care, and I'm seeing more and more of it, and I like it. Maybe time for a little bit of pushback here and there.

Yeah. for a little bit of pushback here and there yeah it's i think what it is is we have uh a place where comedians can go and give you like from them to you for the first time and it's never really like the most you ever had was like a moment if you're a talk show host where you can address the camera do you remember there's a really powerful moment when um uh what's what's his name the english guy that just craig uh craig daniels craig craig first thank you sorry he's not english is he is he irish scottish scottish sorry craig i like him a lot but he had this moment where he's talking about britney spears where he like looked at the camera and he said it was about her being crazy like when she shaved her head and like they're like, what are you doing?

What are we doing? Why are we following this girl? This poor girl is losing her mind. Leave her alone. And that really is what it is. Once someone like that becomes a topic and it's a subject that they can get clicks on and views and ratings, they'll just hound that poor girl.

A comedian got Bill Cosby in jail oh that's right yeah that's right hannibal yeah it's um talk about bait and cancel i know it's next level canceled yeah and he deserved that he deserved every minute of it it's very strange right he's the strangest of all of them when i was a kid we would would listen to his album where he talked about God talking to Noah, the conversation between God and Noah. It's hilarious. Hilarious work. It was great.

Great comedy. It's hard to imagine that the whole time he was doing that. Spooky. It's hard to imagine how I'm going to drive back to the airport. In a straight line, like a wizard. Like a wizard, dude. You'll have no problem. You can hang out here for a while, too, and sober up.

Good. Good. You could go work out. It's a gym. Turn the music on, you can dance. It's a hurt. How about that sauna, though? I like that.

Oh, you can do the sauna? Sure. We'll set that up. That's great, man. Do you sauna at all? No. I love it. I have. In Amsterdam, I had a place with a sauna in the house. we'll set that up no that's great man yeah do you sauna at all no i love it i have i um used to have a place in amsterdam i had a place with a sauna in the house that was

nice it's so undeniably good for you if you do it all the time but then i'd be smoking weed in the sauna oh don't do that no it was right you could smoke weed and then get in there that's not a problem that's probably good i liked it a lot it's good experience have you done the float tank i did that once i did not like that at all claustrophobic no no i just was i couldn't i couldn't get into any kind of zone or vibe i just kept like i'm laying here in lukewarm water i'm like i'm not hearing anything i was like no am i thinking am i liking this it's getting a little colder oh it's getting warmer so i couldn't i couldn't well that is a. Oh, it's getting warmer. So I couldn't get out of it.

Well, that is a real issue. If it's not temperature controlled correctly and you feel cold, it'll fuck up your experience. You really want it in that perfect sweet zone. But when you can get there, it's really all about whether or not you know how to concentrate on breathing. If you can just concentrate on breathing. I've done breath work. Yeah. It was very interesting.

It's not a difficult formula that I employ, but I'll tell you guys if you listen, if you also float. When I get in there, I touch the sides to center myself so that I don't bounce against anything and distract myself because I'm floating. And you drift into the wall sometimes. So I wait until the ripples die down because when you climb in, there's going to be like a little bit of ripplage, right? And then when you lay down, once the water water gets still then i let my hands go and then i just think about breathing and i i'm not a wizard at this right it goes in and out i think about ah i forgot to call that guy oh i gotta send that email oh i gotta i gotta book i gotta put that on my calendar i keep forgetting and then if i just stay vigilant and make sure, okay, okay, get back on the road.

And the road is thinking only of the breathing, only of the in and the out, and the in and the out. I visualize air coming in and out of my lungs, and just that alone while lying in the tank will put me in a trance. And it takes a while. But I can do it quicker because i've done it for years because it's like the tank's a normal thing i get in i'm like ah the most i always think is i should do this more often that's what i usually think but i can get in a trance by just thinking about the breathing yeah tina and i did a a breath work clinic i forget what it was called but you do it was like this tribal beat and you had to continue to breathe to the beat and wait.

And you have one person will be watching you, and then you team up. We didn't team up together, but it was just like that. And then this beat is going, and then you do the breath work. And then all of a sudden, you go into a trance. And it's different for everybody. And I could fly. And that was my – and for just like 30 minutes, I'm just flying. And yet, right after, you had to draw what you were doing.

I mean, it's one of these like i'm a little i'm a little hippie too i like this stuff it's good so you draw it and then i just drew as i was flying i was like but like this one of these jetpack man kind of yeah like iron man but but i could just because i'm a pilot so i knew how to shoot yeah i was like oh fuck this is all i need wow and you know, you know, people had different experiences. One woman who I was partnered with, her turn, and she just, and they had told me that she could get a little funky, and she just kind of got out of it and picked up a plastic bat next to her,

which I had seen, but she starts hammering the pillow, like, really, blah, blah, blah. Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. And it's just, you know, but fantastic. You come out of it, you're like, wow. I mean, that was just such a great experience. I bet that bitch does that shit at Starbucks, too.

I bet she's just wild, just looking for an excuse. She goes to the yoga class, starts punching the walls. Oh, this pose. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. So, but, you know, tank. But holotropic breathing, I think they call that.

That's probably what it was. I mean, I know that is one of them. I don't know. Maybe there's other methods that they do it. But the people that do it say it gets you high as fuck. See, if we were live, then Tina would text me now. She's like, she knows all that shit. I think Aubrey's done that shit.

I think it's holotropic breathing, right? Is that the only psychedelic breathing? There is for sure a method that people study. Oh, you can do so much with your breathing. You can do all kinds of crazy things. Have you ever seen those yoga dudes who can suck their stomach in and do that? Do that little thing where their stomach goes in to the side and to the side. I don't find it particularly attractive.

It's very impressive. I've never really understood it. What are you doing? didn't know it was an exercise i just thought it was showing off i don't know what the fuck they're doing because even though it's it's impressive i've never attempted it it's one of those things where i look and i go yeah look at that like yeah it's impressive but but to someone who can actually do that is it a thing is it like i don't know what they're doing. I have no idea. But there was this famous jujitsu guy named Hicks and Gracie, and he was famous for it.

He was one of the first guys to incorporate yoga into martial arts, like really seriously. And he's the greatest Gracie of all time, right? And he would lay there. There's this video from this movie, Choke, where he's sitting there in a lotus position he's doing this crazy shit with his stomach I can't even believe it's real watch this look at this watch this this is Hicks and I do this like this intense breathing but then see he would move his stomach or this from the movie choke but watch what he could do with his stomach Whoa yeah yeah yeah Look at this crazy shit

Where he can pull it to the left and to the right He has like ultimate control over his breath And that Strength and control over his breath From all these breathing exercises That he did Was a big part of Like how he could fight

And how his jujitsu was so strong He had incredible breath strong he had incredible breath control he had incredible body when you say why his jiu-jitsu was so strong what does that mean exactly he was what the most dominant of the most dominant family so his fighting skills in jiu-jitsu okay he's a legend like a legit like there's there's very few universal legends i should come during one of your fighter talk things. I would learn a lot. Yeah, it's interesting.

This guy's one of the most interesting. He's one of the most interesting because his family in Brazil was famous for creating this form of jiu-jitsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu that went on to win the ultimate fighting championship and really revolutionized martial arts. But he was the champion of the family. championship and really revolutionized martial arts right but he was the champion of the family and not just by a small margin by a large universally agreed upon margin where all of them would go hickson's the king like no one's even close everyone says that he would go and he would get some of the best black belts in the world like a hundred of them in a room and he would just one after the other tap them out one after the other is he still fighting is he still

he's an older man now and you know he's, and I know he still trains, and he's involved in these big seminars because his opinion is very, very respected because of his intense level of jiu-jitsu that he was able to achieve. But he literally had peaked. He hit past everyone. He figured something out to get way above everyone. And I think that had a lot to do with it. I think the yoga and the

mindset sure meditation his mind was strong and then because of the yoga his body was really flexible and really like well conditioning contort and these amazing ways to achieve submissions and then also his jujitsu was so sharp like his family created it. Everything was polished. Everyone knew everything, the correct defense, the correct offense, where you never make mistakes, can't be in this position, always be here, abandon that and go to this. You have plan B, C, D, and you keep going with them. True master. He's running these trains of techniques on people.

It's special to watch. Anyone else like him? There's a bunch of guys now. There's a bunch of fucking assassins now but in his day he was just there's no one person that stands out above like everyone this is kid gordon ryan who's this really elite submission artist who taps everybody in competition and he's trained i'm sorry what does submission artist mean well there's uh jujitsu with a gi right with which is just uh you know jujitsu rules they vary depending upon the organization but you wear the gi and you can use the gi you can choke people the gi is your dress yes the white white kimono or the blue one people have multi the guy from the commercial says no this is my business gi yeah yeah right um

but even a jacket you know like you're using clothes right the idea is like if you got in a fight with someone judo yes exactly it actually comes from part of judo called niwaza which is the ground i did a little judo as a kid okay perfect very little jujitsu came out of judo judo was the original in japanese jujitsu and then it became Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when the Brazilians legitimately changed it and altered it. And then there's submission grappling. Submission grappling, there's no gi. So most of the time, guys wear rash guards, skin tight, surfer rash guards, those kind of things. Yeah, okay.

Or skin tight shorts or pants. Can't really hold on to it. Exactly. Their idea is you can't grab clothes. It's just about, it's like wrestling. but it's wrestling with chokes and arm bars and okay in that world there's a guy named gordon ryan who's a real prodigy and his uh his trainer is considered to be one of the all-time great trainers his name is john donahue and they come from henzo gracie's academy in new york city which is one of the greatest jujitsu schools like universally recognized ever and it's

this giant gym in manhattan that is it just so many killers have come out of this one place so that kid is probably the top of the food chain today out of everybody but even his dominance is probably slightly different from hickson's because hickson what was there was no losses there was no draws there There was no draws. It was just dominating people. Just everyone got dominated, and everybody came out of it going, what the fuck? He just ran through everybody.

Well, how did it end for him? What was his last? Hickson? Did he have a big exit? No, well, he had a giant fight against this very dangerous guy in Japan in 2000, and that was an MMA fight. And he beat his ass. And so that's a nice exit.

That's nice. He won out on top. That's nice. Nobody ever beat him in that was an MMA fight. And he beat his ass? And that's a nice exit. That's nice. He won out on top. Nobody ever beat him in a mixed martial arts fight. He really didn't fight a lot of the... There was a lot of opportunities for different people that he could have fought, but he just didn't want to. Didn't feel like it. He's just a free spirit. But my point... I don't know what

the fuck my point was. Well, here's a question. The stomach thing? That's what it was? He started out with breathing? That's what it was. point was well here's a question the stomach thing that's what it was do you think it's a breathing that's where it was do you think it's a gene

or is it the environment that I have absolutely no interest in fighting of any kind I don't watch it I'm not

I saw the thrill in Manila my dad got me up in the middle of the night we were living overseas to see it and I thought I appreciated that

as a world event. It's just never, what is it? Some people are like, I just don't understand it. I don't like it. I think it's cool that you don't understand it. Understand it is probably. There's nothing in me that says, oh, yeah, I want to see that guy beat the other guy's ass. Yeah, that should be perfect, you know, in a perfect world.

Everybody should be like that. Okay, well. Like legitimately. I respect it. I like where you're coming from. I'm fascinated. I'm very interested. As I said, I did a little judo.

That was mainly because I was getting picked on at school. My dad said, here did a little judo. That was mainly because I was getting picked on at school. My dad said, here, go into judo. And so I learned how to fall and how to dive over five kids and then roll and get up again. After that, I got kind of a little, I didn't like it. I don't know, I didn't like it. And then I went fencing. I was actually very good at fencing. I liked that a lot.

Martial arts for competition, it's a strange pursuit. And professionally for competition, it it's a strange pursuit and professionally for competition it's an even stranger pursuit like originally the martial artist gets into martial arts because they want to better themselves they want to be better at fighting they want to have confidence they want to be able to defend any competitive but just like you want guns to be able to defend yourself there's a lot of people that want to learn how to physically defend themselves against another man right right right i've always said this like people say like why do you do it why do you work out and what i mean it's first health and sanity first oh but second very important i want to be the one who decides if we're in an altercation

and you decide you're some bully and you run up on me and you think you're just gonna hit me i want to be the one who decides who goes to the hospital, not you. I don't want your mercy. I think I grew up so sheltered. I never was really ever threatened really in any way. Every day, all around the world, it happens to somebody. And if you're lucky, you live your whole life by going into the right places and never get punched and never gets just stolen

where somebody just comes up to you and just starts smacking you around and you can't defend yourself because it fucking happens. Yeah. People do it to people and people are awful. Yeah. You know, and you, but most people are not the vast majority are not,

but you know, you do that shit to the wrong guy. Like, and you don't, you didn't know better. And you, you did that to boss Rooten, who was a former UFC heavyweight champion is one of the nicest guys ever.

You might get confused and think like, God, you don't know maybe who he is. Maybe you think you're going to bully him. Maybe you think you're going to fuck with him, make him uncomfortable. And next thing you know, you wake up in the hospital. I think, as I'm just reflecting here, I have a childhood memory, which may be where this started for me. I remember, and I went, I entered Dutch school in fifth grade, speaking almost no Dutch. It was kind of a fucked up situation. Whoa.

So, but say around sixth grade, and I was learning a little bit on the street and around, but I definitely was not really 100% fluent. And I can't remember what it was. It was in the gym in the locker room and some kid said something and he was much smaller than I was and I said something like, well, I can take care of you, little man. And it probably,

I shouldn't have said it in the first place, but within like a nanosecond, and I'm like, he's put me down, hit me on the nose and I'm like, oh, fuck me. And I think that was the, and I'm like, oh, fuck me. And I think that was the moment where I'm like,

I should definitely be careful what I say and to who I say it, and I should watch my mouth. But maybe that skewed me from that moment. Oh, for sure that's it. For sure that's it. Yeah, so I was like, how old are you, 12, something like that. Oh, man, for sure. That's going to leave a stain in your consciousness.

Oh, thank you for bringing this up. No, listen, this is great right i mean i think everybody needs to know why things bother them why things like conflict bother them is this has i don't know as i'm you're 50 52 really yeah so almost we're same age basically um do you have more of those moments now that you think, oh, shit, that's what happened then, and that's why I'm having those? Which mean? Where just you're doing something, and you think back to a moment like I just had here. Hey, that happened. Maybe that just influenced me now today, how I respond to certain situations. I'm having more of those.

My wife is having that, too. That's smart. I like it a lot. It's very interesting. I think, oh God, if I only known this 20 years ago. Yeah, the origin of your behavior is an interesting thing. The origin of your ideas and where you are now. Just the way we choose to behave about things is very strange.

But anybody doing something like that to you when you're that age must have been an insanely traumatic experience. You wouldn't want to watch a sport version of that. I didn't even tell my parents about it. I didn't tell my parents about it. Yeah. I was so ashamed. Yeah.

Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. The solution to that, as strange as it sounds, is everybody know how to fight. Right. And when you get into way less fights, it sounds crazy. It's right on.

I think it should be taught. I think it should be taught just for peace. Whereas we seem to be going kind of the opposite direction with general cultural education of young men, at least in the United States. I don't know if it's the same everywhere. I think it may be kind of propagating out there some of the nicest people i know are martial arts people of course because they have their ego in a good place in comparison to the general population they've been humbled in training everybody gets humbled in training it's so good for you it really is and it leaves calm. Like you get exercise in and you get some sort of weird therapy too when you're a man.

And just knowing that you aren't helpless. I've seen people that are helpless. It's very sad. I think it comes from anything you learn, like learning how to fly. You're literally helpless if you're doing it wrong. And an instructor, a good instructor Will help you get into situations That you have to get out of And that same feeling arrives

I think that's a part of just the learning process I should probably try it You'd love it Yeah, what should I try? What would the Tina's laughing her ass off Like, oh yeah, here he goes We'll talk after this and I'll find a good spot

Where you could go and learn. You would get a kick out of just the learning, just like you get a kick out of learning the dancing. Yeah, exactly. Especially if you take something like Muay Thai. Muay Thai is really fun. I did a documentary in Thailand. Oh, did you really? Yeah, it was really cool.

Did you see Fights Live? Oh, yeah. It's wild, right? I love the rhythm of the music and it's all cute clued into how they do their shit. Yeah, I went up to the Burmese border, the Golden Triangle, stayed with the Hill Tribe. Whoa. I've done a lot of crazy stuff, documentaries. What is that?

How can someone watch that? It's called Veronica Goes. And Veronica was the organization that I worked for in the Netherlands, the broadcast company. Is it available online? Can someone find it? You can probably find bits of it on YouTube. Veronica goes Asia. And so it was Thailand.

I mean, we did a number of things. We went into a brothel, you know, where the girls have all the numbers and we filmed there. Um, I, oh man,

I remember going to the long necks, you know, where they have all the rings on. And I was thinking, oh, this is going to be great. We're going to see the longnecks four and a half hours. And first you get from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai up in the north.

Then a four and a half hour, five hour bus drive. We still had crews, right? So we're 10 people with producers and everything. And it's like, it's got to be around here. And there's like a big sign, almost in neon, Longnecks, this way. I'm like, fucking tourist trap it really is you know but then we went up to the hill tribe uh i'm sure that they've done it before you know had crews over but it's only women because all the men are in the opium hut and just completely stone smoking

opium the women run the whole deal and uh and they they chew the betel nut root with a white paste in it, some kind of cocoa paste. And so, of course, for the documentary, I tried that. And their mouths are all red. Their teeth get completely red from the betel nut. Oh, my God. And I was like, oh, shit. And it's like an elevator. You know how DMT can be a little bit of an elevator vibe?

It's like, guys, I'm fucking hammered. Spit out all the rest of it. And it stayed with me for a good 45 minutes. What's the sensation like? A bit DMT, but very, very light version of it. So it's a psychedelic. I guess so. You felt this like, it felt kind of clear.

You know, like, oh, this is kind of interesting, but all right, I'm pretty high. Just I don't know. I haven't done a lot of different drugs, so I'm not quite sure. But it was interesting, but I don't like the red teeth. It's kind of awkward socially. Yeah, it's a turn off. People know you're a, what is it?

What's the name of the thing? The beetle root nut. Beetle root nut. And cocoa paste. Call someone a beetle. Probably coke and some red stuff. Yeah. Who the hell knows what it is? Beetle nut root. What's in. Probably coke and some red stuff. Who the hell knows what it is? Beetle nut root. What's in that jazz, Jamie?

Can we find out? You got to see the women. You got to see their red. What of me? I think so. Veronica Goes America Asia in Caribbean. It's like 11. I clip on YouTube.

Oh, yeah. It's got you eating the beetle nut. So then we also had to drink cobra blood, you know, all this stuff. Yeah, it's kind of sad because first they piss the cobra off, and then they get the venom. And this is in the restaurant. They get the venom out of his sacks, and then they slit him open and bleed it into a glass of alcohol.

And it's supposed to be very potent. Is that me? That's not you, but that's the pictures. No, but this guy's got the teeth of someone who eats that. He looks very happy. Yeah. So. Look at that guy in the far right.

Anyway. Look at that one. Who the hell knows? That's a lady. Look at her, tripping balls. Happy as fuck. Anyway, but we also shot a lot of Muay Thai. Oh.

So we went to the small village fights. Just kind of this makeshift ring in the middle of the jungle and all these people and then the music. That would be something that would be good for you to learn. Magical. You would enjoy it, I think. A lot of twisty and kicky stuff. Yeah. Twisty and kicky stuff that would compliment.

You know how to dance and move your legs around. Oh, I'm an excellent dancer. I bet you are. I've heard you took lessons. It'd be a fun thing to learn. It was actually my wedding video. So we got married in May. And these days, everyone has an iPhone.

So there's just video everywhere. And I look at myself dancing. I'm like, oh, my God. This has to stop. This video has to be eliminated. I am actually that guy I'm so bad and so I said let's at least learn

to dance some proper dances together because then I can keep my posture up my frame and then it just became hey this is kind of fun we enjoy doing this

with each other yeah like some people go golfing you know maybe we'll go dancing it's a look if you watch like

old Fred Astaire movies real dancing is very impressive oh my god I love it it's weird that that went away like here's a strange thing Look, if you watch old Fred Astaire movies, real dancing is very impressive. Oh, my God. I love it. It's weird that that went away. Here's a strange thing. Okay, how did that get associated with homosexuality?

Broadway. And I love Broadway musicals. Right. And I think that's where it became associated. Because a lot of gay guys are in Broadway and they did the musicals. Yeah. But if you think about those Fred Astaire type days, like then- Manly men were doing that.

Manly men. Yeah, that was a really manly man thing. Gentlemen who could strut and they danced around. Remember what I told you. Like, look at this. And of course, we always say Fred Astaire was great, but Ginger Rogers did everything backwards in heels. Right. True, right?

Don't underestimate the- Well, actually, he's wearing heels too. Yeah, dance heels. I think they're tap heels. Right. True, right? Don't underestimate the... Well, actually, he's wearing heels, too. Yeah, dance heels. I think they're tap heels. Yeah. Her heels are bullshit, though. But you're right.

At least women back then didn't have stilettos. That was the days of the crooners, you know, Sinatra and the Rat Pack. It must be such a pain in the ass. And when we could call

women broads and dames. Some chicks still like that. Yeah. Who was the asshole that made women wear those fucking shoes? Who's the first person that figured out stilettos and high heels? Well, you know why they're worn. I mean, the initial idea is to, because of the angle and the pressure, your calves pump up, and that is deemed as more sexually attractive. In fact, i think it's

pretty proven to work on on men's uh attraction to women red lips lipstick is also part of the blush you have after orgasm blush on your cheeks all that stuff is yeah sexual and that's just exploited by a huge industry yeah for sure it's just where they talk the chicks into it they heal things especially like imagine if men were all i love it went the other way don't you love it don't you think it looks fantastic i do but imagine if it went the other way and if men were the ones who somehow or another by our culture were tricked into wearing stilettos and the higher the heel like the the cooler you looked the cuter you looked at the club we have entire um swaths of men tricked into putting a noose around their neck every single morning.

It's all kinds of weird shit. At least that kind of looks cool. It's a noose. It is a noose. It's a noose. Listen, you're coming from someone who said I wouldn't wear one because I know if I got a hold of someone's tie, I could choke to death with it. Exactly. Yeah.

Especially if it's like a sticky tie. If it's a Windsor knot, it's best. Some dudes have leather ties. That shit's preposterous. What kind of's like a sticky tie. And if it's a Windsor knot, it's best. Some dudes have leather ties. That shit's preposterous. What kind of tie? A leather tie. Like, that's preposterous. You have a strap around.

You literally have a strap around your neck. A murder weapon. The murder weapon is right there. You have a belt around your neck. And it's also uncomfortable. Yeah. But it does look cool. Something about it makes you look like you're fucking serious.

Men get pushed into all kinds of things of commercialism but that's cool if you but if you listen to someone who really cherishes a good suit talk about it then you kind of get it they're in love yes yeah yeah yeah it's nice yeah some things some people are really into suits. They look at it like an art form. Well, yeah. Guy Ritchie, he had a whole thing. He was telling me about it. He came in with a beautiful suit on.

And I was like, look at that fucking suit, man. I told him about the tie thing and he just shook his head. He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu too, though. Okay. He didn't. He also makes no sense to do that. Well, it does make sense. But he's like, you in jujitsu too though okay he didn't he's so he also like makes no sense to do that he's not well it does make sense but you know he's like you're not grabbing my time right no not gonna happen he's actually a black belt from henzo gracie that guy we were talking about

earlier yeah but guy richie loves suits but the way he talks about it like you love suits too you're like ah i get it like the way someone talks about like a really well-made handmade shoe that you got from some italian cobbler and you're like oh i get it right you're wearing like a piece of art like this is someone's art like yes it is a a boot right but it is also when you see that thing it reminds you of italy it reminds you of a guy who actually made this yeah like there's something fucking cool about that yeah that we're definitely getting away from in this like like someone who can make a watch like if someone makes a watch like they're taking all these things and putting wheels in there and or you could just get like a fucking g-shock i've had this watch longer than my daughter's been alive, 30 years. It's amazing. And I've tried other watches, but it's a piece of me now.

Is it a Rolex? Yeah. It's beautiful. I bought it back in the old MTV music business days. If you were a douchebag, then you had a diamond bezel around it. And now this is actually very popular amongst rich women. They're like a thick watch to floss harder? My former New York banker friend friend i go to his dinner

party and it's like oh man there's like three women here wearing my watch it's like still looks great i love it it's such a classic but it's the gold just kind of melts into me now and it's a part of me and it's a reminder of a different time yeah when this shit mattered now i really don't care but it's beautiful it's a cool have. It's got a lot of sentimentality, right? Yeah. If you go back to the origin of wristwatches, it's amazing how long they've been around. Pocket watches. These motherfuckers figured out how to do that shit hundreds of years ago.

When did they figure out a pocket watch? What was the year? Because that was the first one. You get it on a chain, you pull it up, and I guess you had to wind it. But the fact that it worked. They put a bunch of fucking gears together in this thing that you carried around everywhere and it kept time when both my grandparents uh died they died very close to each other 16th century holy shit is that a hamilton 1510 i can't in nuremberg, Germany. Yeah. What was it? There you go. It's a Peter Henlein. Henlein?

Henlein. H-E-N-L-E-I-N. And he created the first pocket watch in 1510. According to Wikipedia. The Italians were producing clocks small enough to be worn on the person by the earliest 16th century. That'd be weird wearing like a necklace clock. Like Play-V-Play. Yeah, I guess. It'd be weird, wearing like a necklace clock. Like Flavor Flav.

Yeah, I guess. It'd be just like Flavor Flav. Do you believe that guy is 60 years old and he's still wearing the clock around his neck? He wants to know what time it is. He's very serious about that. I remember those guys back in MTV. They were nuts. They were in the street jumping around, Flavor Flav,

just doing his thing with the clock. It's like, wow, man, that's still your gig. You were talking about Mark Wahlberg the other day. I used to tour with him. I had a syndicated radio show, and the stations would put it on if I came and did their summer jam. Summer jam.

Be 59 all summer long. Out of MTV's Adam Currie. And then they had Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch, Sisters with Voices. Sometimes UB40, it would be cool if they were there. So every weekend

I'd go off to some bad Top 40 radio station around the country. And that was what Greg Lawley put together, my buddy in Austin. He and I did that. And he was promoting

all the artists. And so Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch, he was just, like you said, like a Calvin Klein underwear model, cool guy, nice. He seemed to be calm, didn't cause a ruckus on the road or anything. And we stayed at some pretty shitty places.

And all of a sudden, he's like Mr. Hollywood and doing well at it. I like it. And never stopped. No. Like you started doing well in like, what, in the 80s? Yeah. It's like Will Smith. I mean, we used to-

He invented himself, too. We did Sega Genesis launch parties together. Yeah. He's another one. And he was doing Parents Just Don't Understand. Yeah. I know, right? It was great.

Yeah. Amazing. That's him. How old was he then? Looks like a kid, wasn't he? 16. Wasn't he, yeah, 18? Maybe he was 17.

I'm just- Anyway, he's been around forever and still doing it. I mean, the fact that he was able to reinvent himself, too, is a major movie star, too. Yeah. Amazing. Fantastic. Good stories. Yeah. When you remember the birth of the internet, when you remember first getting on it and seeing the expansion,

was there ever a moment when was the moment i should say well obviously now today we all realize it's out of out of control and it's just wild so it's a very strange thing that's taking over our lives and then i want to talk about neural link too i'm sure you know something about that about elon musk's invention neural link i know a little bit about it but when you're we when you saw it kind of getting away like when was the moment or where you were like this is a very strange thing that's never happened to people before well I knew I had the online part figured out because I ran a bulletin board you might remember those you could call in maybe like five lines and you go in and do your business

and then get out what year is that oh this has got to be uh early 80s no maybe even late 70s so there's time for innovation there right there's big long stretches where things don't get any better well the speeds got marginally better people got more phone lines that the computers you know were able to do more. Then there were also some other things happening. We had Windows. Windows 95 came into play. So now people were in a different world of computing.

It used to be DOS and people have WordPerfect. And then all of a sudden, we have an interface on top of it. We didn't have that. So that started to teach people how to deal with the environment. So that was all there, but the Internet itself would be 1987, and I logged in. To get on the Internet, you had to log in to a dial-up account, launch a PPP session or slip, and then you had to launch

the software on your computer. And then you could open a terminal and you could type things like Telnet and then a domain name or even an IP address. You could connect to someone else's thing and kind of look around. It was just all text-based. But that for me was like, holy shit, you can connect from one to the next. I understood the hyperlinking. I understood how powerful that would be. And if I just had a little computer today on my desk, I had a Mac Plus with a gigantic external 20 megabyte SCSI hard drive, 20 megabytes.

That's crazy. That's an empty Word doc. Yeah. So that big thing like that, I just was like, oh, my God. This is going to be it. So the second moment was Andreessen with his HTTPD mosaic browser, the web. And then the third moment was Carl Jacob. I think he's an investor, maybe even on the board at Facebook.

But he worked at Sun Microsystems at the time. And he contacted me. He said, okay, may I see what you're doing? I'm going to send you a computer. He sent me a Sun Voyager, which is like a portable, a luggable, with an LCD color screen. This is now 88, something like that. It was Unix, which was even crazier.

And so he started to show me stuff, and he actually streamed a song from his workstation in San Francisco to my computer in Montclair, New Jersey, and it played. I had him on the phone here. I heard him start it, and then it came through, and it played on my computer. I'd never seen this before or heard it. I was like, oh, fuck, broadcast.

We can use this to broadcast. And since that moment, I think that's the mission I've been on. And look at, mama, I have arrived. Here we are. That's an amazing story, man. That's cool as fuck. I love hearing it From someone who was there

From the very first steps And you're We used to have The yellow pages The internet yellow pages Which was a book I still have it It was published

I remember that It was published I remember that You can look up everything In the yellow pages That was a business That's hilarious That was a business

But yellow pages Got fucked right Of course That shit fell apart. That business? Here's what happened with newspapers. Here's where the newspapers fucked up with the news when the internet came around. And there were, I saw it, other people saw it, Craig Newmark saw it, and it's classified.

Because they were all hoity-toity about their advertising model, but they were really making the money off the classified ads. Everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. Everybody knew it. And that's what Craigslist, who tried to sell it to Tribune, was it Tribune or Hearst? Maybe it was Hearst, for just a couple million bucks. And it's like, no, we're not interested.

We don't need it. Not invented here, whatever. And so he ate up their classified business overnight. And they were left holding the bag saying, well, we have cool news to advertise on. Well, no, no, no. We'll put some in there. But no, it was about the classifieds. That's where the money came from.

Dvorak can tell the story. I'll ask him to do it on the show. He can tell the story about Craig Newmark and how they passed on it. And he does that very well. The classified ads, do they even have them? No. Still in the newspapers? They're gone?

Oh, bits. Dead people is still a good business. Yeah. Of course they have some, but no, not really. How often do you hold a physical newspaper in your hand and read it? Whenever I'm at the airport,

I always buy the newspapers. Yeah. Because I don't want to be on my phone. Right, right, right. Let me just read the newspaper. Yeah. Yeah. Do you just read the newspaper. Yeah. Do you use Android? No.

iPhone? I have a stripped down, I call it cloaked, no SIM card, VPN, pie hole. There's a lot of different parts on it that I do carry. It's iPhone 7 if I need to. There's no other apps on it, no extra carry. It's iPhone 7 if I need to. There's no other apps on it, no extra apps, just Blanket. So you keep that in case of emergency? Yeah, if I need to do something. If you need to do something.

Like I want to use the GPS. Right. It also has an iCloud account that's not my main iCloud account. So I'm trying to make that Adam Curry and remove my other digital footprint. I get it. Try to move it over a little bit or something, at least confuse it a bit. Wow. Whatever happened to it?

Wasn't there a blockchain phone that was going to be released? There's a number of interesting projects that are Linux-based. I'm trying to think of the one that's on the, a lot of it's crowdfunded. This company actually, they make laptops

that are completely, they all open source hardware. Shit, Jamie, can you find, what's the name of that company? It's, I feel stupid now.

It's the weed. It definitely is the weed. but they crowdfund, but they've had very successful crowdfunding with Linux laptops, with open source hardware. Because that's really where you have to look for the problems. Because advertising, it's an insatiable thing that these companies are hooked on. And the data, they have to keep getting data from us. That's the system. So when we start to cut it down, they move to the hardware.

They move to different types of ways of getting data from us. That's the system. So when we start to cut it down, they move to the hardware. They move to different types of ways of getting data. And right now, I mean, you still can't hide from cell phone triangulation. There's all kinds of ways people can find you. That's really the biggest problem. If you can track someone's location, you can build their life. Add a credit card to that. Mimi, John C. Dvorak's wife, she does the company's taxes, a very family business. And she kind of, I think she used to do some kind of auditing in the past.

And she'll call up and say, oh, here's what I always see you do. And she'll tell me exactly what I do, where I go, when I like to eat out. She has all these patterns. And she just does it for fun. Do you have GPS in your car? Yeah. You can't get rid of it. I mean, there's no...

No manufacturer after probably 2015 allows you to completely turn off tracking. Well, you got an iPhone 7. Why don't you get like a 69 Corvette? Get something old. 69, that's 69. That's the point. I mean, everything is built in now.

Yeah. I mean, I think that didn't really start until like the 2000s, right? Well, they sold it to us in a great way with on-call. You know, like, boom, I'm upside down. On-call, help is on the way. What is this, Jamie? I typed in. Oh, Librem. There you go, Librem.

Thank you. What did you type in? Crowdfunded Linux laptop. Fantastic. Yeah, Librem. Pur you. Crowdfunded. What did you type in? Crowdfunded Linux laptop. Fantastic. Yeah, Librem. Purism. Purism. They make a bunch of products.

Do you mean laptop or phone? They make both. So they make the laptops, the phone, they're coming. But there's other projects as well. It looks like a real phone. But here's my problem. Here's my problem. What?

It's still going to bleep and bloop. Right. I don't want it. Right, it's going to find you. I'll buy it. Of course, I want to have it because I have control over keeping it off and not using it when i'm on the road but as a basic thing if i'm at home and i just want to surf uh i'm sitting down yeah i'd rather use that absolutely apple i kind of trust apple to a degree you know they're pretty good about not

selling stuff they know so their maps is would be what I use. I trust that. Yeah. But only as far as I can throw them. I'm sure there's a million guys going, Curry, you have no idea how they try. Yeah, I do. But I just try to make less data. What do you think happened with Google that they removed don't be evil?

I think it was do no evil. Do no evil. That's right. People get that wrong. I get everything wrong um which is which is even no i mean it's one of those things that it's like a um mandela effect okay right like the bernstein bears yeah exactly so it's like mandela effect um but for whatever reason well that's a they okay so these guys who grew up you know under, under the... Don't be evil.

I thought it was don't do evil, but it was in the S1 document, and I remember reading it. Okay. But, okay, I could be wrong. So it is either way. Maybe they changed that halfway and went from don't be evil to don't do evil to don't be evil. They adjusted it from do the right thing. No, it was... That's what it says now, I guess.

Oh, either way. Anyway. Whatever the wording of it is. So these guys didn't grow up by accident. This is going to be my big Google conspiracy theory. I'll give it to you. It's one way of explaining it. Maybe I'm full of shit.

I love a good conspiracy. They had a lot of help. In advance, I'm rooting on this conspiracy. Their main boost was the acquisition of Keyhole. And this was a – you have to know the company In-Q-Tel, which is a venture capital company, which is the CIA's – it's not a secret. It's the CIA's – they even say, our CIA venture capital company. And they invest in stuff. And they helped the Keyhole acquisition.

And Keyhole is the mapping. That's really what Google Maps was. The most important thing you can have for a for person's identity is where they are um these guys kind of grew up young under oppression of russia that's where they both come from and uh they kind of came into the system if you look at the universities and the people involved and how they were almost given some kind of prizes for things they did. I mean, there's an alternative story to the general narrative of how Google came to be. So I think there was a lot of intelligence people involved in this, involved in setting it up.

And the psychology of Larry and Sergey, some psychologists have analyzed, and I've listened to a lot of different people, is that they kind of become what their oppressor was to them. And it's not really, I don't think they're bad guys, but this is psychosis that happens if you grow up in some kind of stressed out situation. People who have been abused often abuse others. And so I think that's what's going on the problem is i love all the technology i love what all these companies and everybody's doing the business model is just fucking humanity it is it's fucking us by giving away data by influencing people not letting us that data not letting us share in in the revenue of the data right uh or having some control over it and that's really what it is there should be some sort of legislation that recognizes what data is and that they look at it in terms of like like

it's a commodity and saying like selling and buying and selling well i think there is there is some of that but is there some that really really evenly balances it or looks at it for what it really is? Well, what is data? I mean, what is money? Money is data. Money is not money anymore. What are you providing? You're providing a service.

It's all data. It's all data. Yeah, it is all data. It has to be a trust relationship. And if their business model is as it is now, if they don't change it, no legislation will stop them from getting around the problem. But now it's you get free shit and we get your data. You get a free browser. Here's the interesting thing.

We get your data. Here's the interesting thing. The internet is, although no longer quite the same way with upstream and downstream being equal due to the cable companies and how they've implemented your personal connection. We can still do our own servers. It doesn't all have to be on YouTube, on Facebook, on Twitter. I was talking earlier about Mastodon. Noagendasocial.com is our own social network. It's with open source software without algorithms.

And we federate with all these other servers, much the way the World Wide Web grew up. And there's this mechanism for communicating with each other, and so it's kind of Twitter meets email, only it's just – it looks like Twitter. But you control a lot more of how it works, and your community can be a small little community, and you can have no one come in. You can block people or just say, I only want these cool people to also connect or that server to connect it's all good so you have all these kind of almost like an ancestry.com tree that branches to all these different places called the federation if we build upon those kinds of things and don't let other companies or companies at all there's no reason for them to get involved it's very cheap with a believe it or not a linux laptop you can get started any kid can learn how to do it they should be teaching it at school how to set up a server how to get around

some of the hurdles understand how an email server works and we will not need these companies we can have all the joy and a lot of the downside, but there won't be a Twitter police. There will be only your own little community. Say, hey, we don't like this guy. We're just going to block you or your whole community. Or we would love to have you guys with us, and it can happen to us similarly. And that's how you build these networks, and eventually you connect to each other on the back end somehow anyway how often do you think i mean how long do you think it's going to be before we're implementing augmented reality into our life in that way in like a social media context um because you kind of got augmented reality already with your ears yeah so it would be

unfair of me to say that um it it's hmm it's augmented in that it's enhancing. But I have enhanced it in ways that are particular to me, but it's not some algorithm really determining things that I should hear. I am in total control of how that works and how it sounds. I don't see the case for augmented reality. I just don't see it. When you think about what Apple's trying to do with their glasses glasses well i i think it's trying to get people from doing this to doing this yes it probably is that's probably that's all that it is that's all that it is but it's also probably adding to the experience right if you can have like little animated fairies everywhere you go that you see through your apple glasses everything else looks the same

do you ever go to the haunted uh mansion ride at disneyland yes and you look you know there's a ghost sitting right next to you if i see you with one of those glasses on i'm gonna go learn some fucking muay thai i'm gonna kick you in your fucking head boom like dalsim what if it makes life so much crisper and brighter you put these glasses on and it syncs up to the little chip that you have in the middle of your brain it gives you this pleasure feeling and you all of a sudden, everywhere's flowers, man. You walk through flowers. I'm always looking for the conditioning that's getting us ready for these moments. And so I think a beautiful moment is this coronavirus where the testing is someone holding a gun-like sensor to your head.

I mean, that's preparing people for the barcode or the chip. It's like, oh, yeah, click. Like a pet. How are they testing? Do you have to go to a hospital? Yeah, the test takes a couple of days. I think they have a test that will go down in a couple of hours, but they swab deep in your throat or deep in your nose.

It sounds kind of annoying. This whole thing is very, very spooky. It seems to happen every 100 years. Look, Joe. We're conditioned? We're conditioned through horror movies for this. I mean, my favorite part of this script as it unravels was the Pope sneezing and coughing like, oh my God, the Pope, he's in Italy, he has coronavirus.

World War Z. And like, if the Pope dies, this will freak out the world. And so we talked about it on the show, we're waiting like, oh my God. And today they announced the pope is fine. He's been tested. He does not have coronavirus. So thank God.

I think this is, sadly, we're reacting in all the wrong ways. This is completely illogical what's going on. It's very illogical. And this is, there's, it's the death rate and the amount of people who are infected that is misunderstood. And so people are just throwing numbers everywhere. And meanwhile, I mean, even the New England Journal of Medicine, which includes Dr. Fauci, who's on the team and who's been around in this business for a long time through the Obama administration, Bush administration. Yeah, he's been around. He said, look, this is probably going to be no worse than a severe seasonal flu.

Now, we know that seasonal flus can kill quite a lot of people. It could be 20,000, 30,000. So in those aspects, it's kind of the same. But it's being presented in a sensationalistic way that we're completely programmed to respond to remember we already have enlarged amygdalas because of all the triggering and wokeness going on so give us a little it's true joe give us a little bit of fear with this thing that we're conditioned through all kinds of horror movies and netflix just had the pandemic movie on just a couple months ago.

So we're primed. We're primed to be suckered into something. And part of it may be the Patriot Act. Whatever's going on with the pandemic, there's always something going on in the background. Do you think whenever there's something going on with the pandemic, then they use it as an opportunity to sneak stuff in the background. Yeah. So I'm looking for the pandemic appropriate, the spending bill. Someone was trying to talk to me about that with natural disasters or any kind of attack. It always happens. And that there's automatically an understanding that people are willing to do things they

wouldn't normally be willing to do. So this is when you move in with new legislation. It's the amendment. So you have a bill and the bill will be financing for coronavirus, whatever that means. The president wanted two and a half million, two million. I think like a million and a half was already kind of there. And you stuff a bunch of shit in that bill. Well, exactly.

And it's like a piece of the Patriot Act may actually get passed in that. Because it's kind of like you cannot vote against this shit. Because how can you vote against pandemic saver? How can you vote against Patriot? The Patriot Act? Well, there are a lot of people in Congress right now trying to break the Patriot Act apart. can you vote against pandemic saver how can you vote against patriot the patriot well this well there are a lot of people in congress right now trying to break the patriot act apart because this is the spying bill where the government can just spy on you and we've been talking about some of that it's not cool yeah this all really was implemented right after the september 11th attack

it was already written yeah it was good to go bin I was going to say that Binney from the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy said, look, they were ready to spy on people long before then. Totally ready. They were setting it up. They. They, those motherfuckers. The crazy they. Adam, I hate to end this, but it's 310.

Oh, shit. We've literally done this for three hours. It feels so good. It was awesome, man. It was better than I expected. I expected it to be awesome and it was even more awesome i really enjoyed it we got to do it more often i'd love to and thank you so much my pleasure having me on thanks for fucking creating this thing man you know you're a big part

of it you know your your ideas of of broadcasting uh for sure part of the seeds that led to the you know to me doing this so thank you thank you very much you're more than welcome but thank you and thank you know everyone who really is around your show and all the comedians it's uh i can die a happy man pretty much not planning yet stay alive man we love you all right thanks bye everybody wow that was a long chat