The Joe Rogan Experience - #1441 - Hugo Martin

Episode Date: March 13, 2020

Hugo Martin is the creative director of Doom Eternal by id Software. Doom Eternal releases everywhere on all platforms on March 20, 2020.

One what's up, dude? How are you good? How are you first of all the game looks fuck tell everybody who you are what you do Oh, my name is Hugo Martin, and I'm the game director on doom eternal Oh, no, the dragon is back it let me tell you something folks we Hugo just played some of doom eternal He showed us the game and show and ran through the some of the first level. Holy fuck God damn, it's so next level. It's so next level. Graphics, it's so next. Everything about it, like the weapons, the demons, the way you kill them.

It's the most violent thing I've ever seen in my life. It's awesome. It's so ridiculous. But it seems like it's okay because it's violence against demons. Yeah, totally. And we work hard on that. There's no cursing. I have three kids. There's no cursing that i have three

kids there's no cursing there's no sex i do want it to be something that my nine-year-old could play don't you think it's kind of crazy that you could rip people's heads off you could shove their arm down their throat you could cut them in half that's fine just don't use any of those naughty words kids yes because i was joking with something the other day it's like when i'm with my kids like he's not going to go to somebody and like glory kill them but when someone says with a glory kill us because it sounds too much like glory hole and people are going to get really confused so in the game when you damage a demon uh enough they will glow uh with like a shader on them and that means you can go in to do a melee finisher basically which is like a a melee attack

and you'll get health from it and there's really really cool animations. And melee we should explain is like with your own hands. Yes. You can rip them apart or cut them in half with a sword or a chainsaw. Yes. It's so crazy. Like when my kids see that they're not going to do that but when they hear someone use the F word they're like oh I

could use that in everyday life and that sucks. It's a very interesting rationalization I'm not buying it. But the game is awesome. It would be cool if you had an R-rated mode that you had to, like, enter in your security number, social security number or something, and it'll unlock it. It shows you're over 21. That would be funny.

That would be awesome. Or over 18. I feel like over 18. Yeah. And then you just hire your brother. Dude, get in here. I'll give you five bucks. Unlock this pitch.

That would be awesome. It's cartoonish violence, though. You could see it. It's very much like a cartoon. Yeah, and again, you're killing monsters. It's like Walking Dead when they spike them in the head. You can't do that to a person on TV, but you could do it to a zombie. And they're demons from hell.

You're doing God's work. You have to. Yes, that's right. You have to. And we should explain that Doom was one of the very first 3D games. It was Castle Wolfenstein, right? That was like the first one with id Software. We've had Carmack in before.

He's no longer with id Software. But who is, is Willett still there? No, he's not there anymore either. God damn it. What about Hollingshead? No. What the fuck, bro? How's it id Software?

Marty Stratton. Change the name. You got a bunch of new people running it. Listen, whoever's running it, they're doing an amazing job because that game looks sick, and I'm scared. I'm scared I'm going to get sucked into it. It's awesome. First of all, the gameplay and then just the beginning sequence, the in-game whole sequence,

looks like a CGI movie. It doesn't look like gameplay. Remember when we used to play games and you used to have that opening scene? There was a video and then it would go to the game and the game was crude. This game is exactly like the opening scene, which is so crazy. No pre-rendered, that everything. Those are the in-game assets. That's how good they are.

The team is insane. The guys are true artists, craftsmen. You know, like they just go crazy on the details. And when you zoom in with the camera for the cinematics, they completely hold up. The rigging, like it's like a feature film. It's nuts. Are you guys, there it is right now. Let's play the, let's play the, the, uh.

This is the old trailer. This is the old trailer? Yeah, this trailer's good. Just play it for people. This is humanity's chance to repent. Just play it for people. And if you're just listening, you gotta see this on YouTube. And if you're like,

I'm a grown-up, but I don't have time for this shit. I have an IRA and a 401k, and I have kids. Me too, bitch. Me too. And if you're like, I'm a grown-up, but I don't have time for this shit. I have an IRA and a 401k and I have kids. Me too, bitch. Me too. The sake of your people will not bring you peace. Only make the burden you carry worse. For millennia we have survived. Made others sacrifice in the name of our prosperity.

Who are you, a human, to defy our traditions? Now, if you're just listening, this is just annoying music and noise, but if you're watching, it looks fucking sick. Watch this. Oh. And then it goes... Bam! Right in the head. Angels.

Oh, there's angels, too? Oh, Jesus. Look at this. Oh, shit. Yeah. So he's like the boss demon? Yeah. Whoa.

God damn, this looks good. Doom Eternal. I anticipate a massive waste of time for people. 320, so that's when it comes out? Yeah. What's that, nine days from now? Yes. Wow.

That guy, if you're Bruce Lee, that is your Chuck Norris. Oh. Yeah, and you guys are going to. And the whole scene, actually, when you meet him, which is a little clip from that, it's really inspired by that scene. Is it Enter the Dragon or Return of the Dragon when he fights Chuck Norris? I think it's Enter the Dragon. Yes. I think.

You know, like when they square off in the Coliseum. Yes. You know, he comes out and he says some badass shit and you look at him and you're like, yeah. What the? Yeah, that's a fucking great scene. That is a great scene. Way of the dragon.

Is it? Way of the dragon, yes. Oh, wow. Way of the dragon. Or for the Star Wars fans, we say it's like you're Obi-Wan and that's your Darth Maul. Ah, okay. I like the first analogy better. A little bit more.

It feels like, I don't know, Star Wars has become too Disney-fied. It doesn't really sync up with that. That fight is badass, though, between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. Yes. Oh, man, it's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty badass. Yeah. That's before it went to shit.

The fights in the prequels were amazing. Yes. They were really good. Yes. I've watched the one against Obi-Wan and Anakin like a million times. Like, I love that one. It's so good. And the lava and shit, and they just go off on each other. and um anakin like a million times like i love that one it's so good like when they and the

lava and shit and they just go off on each other and like it's amazing george described it in an interview that it would be like you would be seeing uh jedi at their peak that that really in the first three star wars films they were not at their peak and then in the prequels you would see them in their prime you know like like hickson in his prime so like that's what's so cool about that fight they're just going off on each other. It's amazing. Yeah. Well, what you guys have done is create something that's going to ruin people's lives.

I hope you're really excited about massive waste of time. I mean, we were talking before the show about video games and the addictive quality of video games. I have a real problem. I just can't play them that much. Yes. I can dip my toe in every now and then, and then I shake my head and I gotta go running

or something. Because otherwise it'll get the grip on me. Because they're too fun. Like there's no movie that you're gonna watch that gives you the kind of engagement that your video game does. Because you're like in the movie. Yes. And it looks like a fucking movie now. And you see with the glory kills like you are your own fight choreographer.

If you're sick of breaking the arm and shoving it in his head then swing around from behind and cut them in half You know like do anything you want It's awesome now as far as multiplayer because I'm not really into playing games the game game I'm into multiplayer So you I promise if you play the single player What is unique about our single player is that it will give you the same buzz that a multiplayer will give you because your opponents This time are the AI.

And that opening level, that's white belts. You're messing with easy dudes. Later on, it will continue to level up. And as you saw, that guy that comes out with the axe, again, he is as tough as you are. So you will get the same feeling from the single player that you do from a multiplayer experience. That's not really possible.

See, because what I like is duels. In Quake Champions, I like playing duels I like like like in Quake champions I like playing duels you know that's what's fun for me like one-on-one like me and Jamie would get barbecued and we'd come here and we play for hours just one-on-one you run around the map and collect your rocket launchers and your ammo and armor and shit and just fuck each other up we have a multiplayer it was called battle mode that is fucking awesome like Like, it's really, really good. And then... Is it like

Quake multiplayer? Like, the same kind of deal? No, it's different. It's very unique. The last multiplayer we made was not super well-received. It was a really competent, good multiplayer, but it was... What was that? It was just Doom 2016's multiplayer experience, but it really wasn't innovative enough. Like, fans wanted

to see us, like, do something new. So we basically took the single player experience that combat loop that you'll master and then we we give you a way to do it with your friends it's a 2v1 so it'd be you know two of you guys versus one guy gets to be the slayer with all the guns and it's really really cool and then there's invasion so like you'll play the single player campaign and then someone can become a demon like Jamie can become a demon, and then invade you while you're playing, and you won't know where he is, and he'll just come out and try to fuck with you. Like, it's really cool. But is there any one-on-one multiplayer?

Invasion's kind of one-on-one, but battle mode, the closest we come to one-on-one is 2v1. Oh, okay. That's weird. Why decide two versus one instead of one versus one? It just unique you know it's it's uh the balance there no one demon can stand against the slayer you know the doom guy is all powerful he's got all these you know he's right here he's he's got all the guns and the mods and he's got eight guns bicep exposed it seems like a vulnerability it's like a kind of a badass pretty much if someone comes along and cuts his fucking arm off it seems like that's a good spot to hit his arms are like trees so like they're they're made out of jelly donuts they're very large that shit they are so big that in one scene he raises like a sword and the bicep just like is it's absurdly huge but but um that's cute but it's still made out of meat that's true that's true

the the uh i forgot what i was, but yes, you can compete. Battle mode is really good. You really like it. Yeah, but why don't you have a one-on-one? Because we just, it didn't, it just didn't work out that way. Do you think, do you anticipate anything like that in the future? Like an add-on or? You never know.

Like certainly we'll see, but we're really, really proud of this. Like I think what you want to do is, you got to innovate. If you want to make something that's really going to engage people. Like, the whole point is to, like, give them something to master that they've never seen before. Because if you're just asking me to master a new version of a thing that I already mastered, sure, a lot of people would appreciate that. But you're not really going to capture, like, a large audience. So we really created something that was completely unique. And so we're excited. Now, is there going to be a deathmatch mode

where all of us can get in a room and fuck each other up? No. Jesus Christ, Hugo. What are you doing? We have quick champions for that. I know, but we already played quick champions. I want to play that. I want to use those weapons. Play with that guy. Is this the multiplayer, Jamie?

This is the multiplayer. Jesus Christ, this looks crazy nuts the dude you the it's it's kind of based based on a couple of core pillars of like we needed something that had a lot of drama we wanted something that had a lot of pacing like the variations and pacing in the match and uh something with deep strategy so and and was primarily innovative like unlike anything any anything anybody had played before and was primarily innovative, unlike anything anybody had played before. And it's a multiplayer for people who love Doom Eternal. So when you play the Doom Eternal single player, you'll like this. Right. It looks so incredible, man. It's fucking awesome.

The graphics are so off the charts. I just want to play this right now. I know. I'm looking at this video. Jamie's showing the video of this guy playing, it's just it looks incredible. So he's the Slayer. You're seeing through the Slayer right now and those two demons that he's shooting with the numbers coming out of them, those are the other guys. Now

I don't think most people understand the incredible amount of work that's involved in creating one of these things. Yes. When did you guys start on this? About four years ago. So it's been four years of steady work to make something like this happen like and in nine days we're gonna like give it to the world yes i'm like i'm i'm shaking oh my god i'm so nervous they just

canceled e3 yes uh everyone's scared of the goddamn coronavirus i know my wife says i'm gonna be in quarantine at the house for two weeks when i come home here i don't think it needs to be two weeks i think it's four days. You start showing. Look at you. You're sniffling already. I'm just nervous. Psychosomatic.

They say that it's four days and you start exhibiting symptoms. Okay. I coughed at the airport and people looked at me like I almost wanted to apologize. I was just clearing my throat and I didn't cover my mouth and everybody was like. I know. Everybody's on edge. Yeah. Meanwhile, the comedy store was packed last night dude we went to pax east last week with the fans hunt like lines

of fans and the beginning everybody was touching elbows that lasted like 20 minutes and we were just high-fiving and hugging and stuff that's how it was at the store last night a couple guys were like trying to give you knuckles and rebels like get the fuck out of here it's just we all go down together come on give me a hug well they say I didn't watch that show yet with that guy that you had, but 50 and up or something? The real problem is people with respiratory issues, people who are overweight,

and people who are old. Those are the real problems. Unhealthy people. That's the real issue. That's going to be the real issue. Although Sam Harris did know a guy who's a skier who is 50, who is 50 who is apparently very healthy and very fit and he is now on a ventilator and he was in italy i don't know the specifics you know sometimes look i've i've got the flu before and i'm sure

you have as well and sometimes what happens is you're worn down from travel you're worn down maybe from drinking you're worn down from too much exercise and then it gets you and then if you're worn down maybe from drinking you're worn down from too much exercise and then it gets you and then if you're not like and this is just the common cold and apparently the common cold is a type of coronavirus i don't know google that make sure that's true but i'm i'm pretty i was reading up on coronaviruses last night i was like what like so sars is a type of coronavirus is this just here now forever like this is a type of coronavirus? Is this just here now forever? Like this is a part of the world? Like coronavirus?

It's a good question. Well, Michael Osterholm, who wrote this book, Deadliest Enemy, and who was on Tuesday, on the podcast Tuesday, he opened up a lot of people's eyes as to like what the the issue is and what what what you can do to prevent it but those wet markets that they have in china are just bananas man with the fucking bats on the tables and coronavirus are large family viruses that cause illnesses ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as uh mers uh severe or sars uh novel coronavirus, is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans. So zoonotic or zoonotic, meaning they're transmitted between animals and people. So what's happening is these fucking wet markets.

He was detailing how they have chickens that are in one cage and civets that are above the chickens. And the civets are shitting on the chickens. And the chickens are eating the civet shit and it's like goodness it's like it's just a perfect environment to create a disease that's gonna jump from one species to the next that is scary yeah and he's like and many of them have jumped to humans i mean all the major uh whether it's avians flu that's from birds swine flu obviously from pigs they jump from farm animals or from these wet markets to people. Yeah, and they're not going to stop those wet markets. So it's like, I mean, that's how people buy their food, which is just crazy.

Have you ever seen the videos and pictures of what they look like over there? No, that seems scary, though. What do you think your game is scary? Want to see what a bat looks like when it's laid out on a table? Apparently, bats are like a common thing to eat. And, bro, when you see what a bat looks like with its's laid out on a table? Apparently, bats are like a common thing to eat. And, bro, when you see what a bat looks like with its mouth open, it looks like it belongs in your game. That would be good. Good reference.

We were looking at pictures of them yesterday, and they have a table laid out. And then even just on the raw concrete, bats laid out with their mouth open. They look cartoonish. They don't even look real. And they have no wings. Yeah, Jamie's, oh, my God, over there. Look how big these bats. These they have no wings. Yeah, Jamie's. Oh my god and over there Look how big these bats these are bats without way. I wanted to see holy shit. Holy shit, dude That looks like a dog. They do look like dogs or dogs

Those are dogs, oh those are bad so those are bad so look at the teeth on the bats Yeah, that's really that look at how they're all they all have their mouths wide open like they're trying to bite you so like they die trying to kill you and they're gonna they're gonna cook those yes that's how that is how this disease got started look at that guy and he's smoking well go back to him again let me see a big picture him he's triple stacking the behavior stacks of bats smoking cigarettes like they're eating bats. That's crazy. It's just nuts, man.

But this is what happens. We'll see these chickens stacked on top of each other. When you have a billion people and look at that guy sleeping on top of that cage. That should be in our game.

It should be. Yeah, like if you're hungry you eat a bat. You could glory kill that thing and get health. That would be good. Apparently SARS came from bats as well.

So don't eat bats, kids. I won't't but they have to because they're starving I mean that's one of the things that China's doing what they have to do there's too many people not enough food and a lot of what they're eating is just we wouldn't imagine eating it are you are you not traveling because of this I'm not changing shit yeah that's my wife asked me a lot like she she was really about me coming here, and I was like, dude, we got to sell the game. I just got back from Vegas, and I was a little nervous while I was over there, but I did everything normal. I went to work out. I ate.

Went to the fights, which is 20,000 people at the T-Mobile Arena all stuffed into this one area, and everybody was acting normal. Everybody was high-fiving and hugging and fighters. I mean, Jesus Christ, you want to talk about people exposed. Yeah, yeah. They're sweating and they're half naked. Tyson Fury's trying to lick that dude's blood. I mean, I don't think he's worried. That was before.

That was before the big outbreak. Yeah, I'm worried about old people. I'm worried about my parents for sure. I'm worried about people who are overweight. I have friends that are not healthy that maybe should lose some weight, and I'm worried about them. I'm worried about people with respiratory problems. A good friend of mine has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis,

and he canceled his tour. Shout out to Everlast. He canceled his tour because of that, but he's got a real concern. His daughter has a pretty serious lung condition. That is really scary. It's horrible. Yeah, and so he's got no choice. He has to stay home and play it safe.

And I think a lot of people are going to do that. It's going to be interesting to see how the government handles it. Because one of the things about love or hate Trump, he's willing to do some shit that a lot of people would think would be unpopular, like close down traffic, close down flights coming in from other countries that are infected, that have high rates of infection. You know, I mean, I wonder what they're going to do. And I think something really radical has to be done to try to start to slow down this fucking illness. But I don't know what they can do, honestly. So are we waiting for it to – I've got to watch your show with this guy. Are we waiting for it to go away?

Like I read a quote that like when the weather changes, it'll stop or something. That's horseshit. Yeah. Michael Osterholm set a straight on that. That's nonsense. He's like it's not going to have any effect on it. What happens is it just runs through the population And people develop immune systems that can handle it. You develop an immunity once you catch it.

And for many people, it's just going to be like a bad cold. For many people, it's going to be like you're coughing and you just try to get better. Stay home, drink a lot of fluids, be healthy, do your best, and eat healthy. And then get out. You're going to have an immunity to it. And that's what's going to happen on the other end. I saw one guy, he had it and it was fairly mild. And then they quarantined and he got over it.

He was getting over it and getting better. And then they quarantined him with a bunch of people that also had it. And then he got it even worse, which is interesting because I was like, I wonder how he got it again. And I guess probably his immunity wasn't fully developed yet. And then it just overwhelmed his immune system because he's basically quarantined with a bunch of other people that were really, really sick. But he got through it and he was talking about it. And all these poor people that are stuck on boats.

Oh, my God. It's crazy. This is going to kill the cruise ship industry. Yeah. I guarantee you that. We just went on vacation. And I have to say, traveling and we went went on vacation and i have to say traveling and like we went to this vacation spot but there's nobody there it's actually it's kind of nice oh

yeah if you go to hawaii right now whoa you got the whole beach to yourself we had everything to ourselves it was amazing yeah i wonder you know i wonder uh how this is going to play out i really do we go like you know you're even at our hotel eating at the buffets and stuff, but like to your point I'm just like fuck it. What are we gonna? Do they're closing down buffets? It's one of the things they're doing in Vegas They're closing down buffets those buffets are huge I haven't been to Vegas too many times, but the one time I was there had a pretty crazy buffet Yeah, I mean you all you can eat just fucking pig out some of those buff But that's also how they do it on a lot of cruise ships

They have buffets I only went on one cruise ship, and by the end, I wanted to throw up. Like, oh, my God. Because the first day, you're like, the food's amazing. It's so buttery, gross. It's like being stuck on an apartment building filled with drunks, but you're all on the roof. And if you jump off the side, you're definitely dead. Yes. That's what it's like.

They're feeding you the fattiest grossest but tasty food yeah you know i'm looking to get fat that's your move some people just fuck it let's go all in but i just recently lost 20 pounds did you yeah i was you do um well my i was 226 and uh that was fun especially uh i mentioned earlier like doing jujitsu but the my fun just because you could pin people down easier extra weight more weight to throw around i guess yeah you get tired easier though i did like there's definitely been benefits to losing weight that i actually really like but uh my my blood pressure and my uh cholesterol was really high so what did you do to lose the weight well i went to a nutrition well really i gained that weight just from eating like an idiot uh i had really bad

eating habits and uh I had no idea. I didn't know you weren't supposed to eat a shit ton of pasta before you go to bed. You didn't know? How old are you? I'm 43. How do you not know that? I make video games. I don't know what the fuck's going on.

I know how to do glory kills. Listen, man, I woke up this morning with acid reflux. Not really, but it felt gross because I ate two tins of sardines last night before I went to bed Yeah, so I'm not smart either. I Went to a nutritionist and she just kind of coached me on Like basic stuff and it was remarkable how much weight I lost just by not being you know stupid You got to just go to bed hungry Yes

You're way better off going to bed hungry than eating a big meal before you go to bed But I come home from the Comedy Store and it's late and no one's home. I just I've just become an idiot You gotta just go to bed hungry. Yes. You're way better off going to bed hungry than eating a big meal before you go to bed. But I come home from the comedy store and it's late and no one's home. I just, I've just become an idiot. I just start eating. That's exactly. And then I go right to sleep. I would crunch on the game and like be at the office late, come home and told my wife would make something amazing, but I missed dinner.

And it's like, I want to fucking eat. It looks awesome. It's right there. Yeah. Yeah. But that made me super fat and, and, uh, like it, it looks awesome yeah yeah but that made me super fat and and uh like it wasn't very but i was i was working out a lot so it was actually and doing jujitsu so it it was fun being of a larger size but i'm not supposed to be that big like it wasn't

good that's my my numbers are all much better now that's great and you just the nutritionist what did she change uh i basically i kept a food diary and she read it and just laughed she's like she's like you eat like you're 13 i'm like i was like i work on things for 13 year olds that's it pretty much yeah and uh just really when i was a kid it was like finish your food clean up your plate wipe up every last bit. Watching my dad. He's Argentinian. Piles of fucking steak. You know, like, I thought that's how people ate. That's how you're supposed to eat.

Yeah, but not at, like, 11 o'clock at night, I guess. Yeah. I just don't think you're supposed to eat and then go to sleep. It's just not a smart move. I didn't do a vegan thing. I asked her that. I was like, should I not eat? She's like, no.

It's kind of the basic stuff. I eat the little bit of all these food groups, and I just eat? She's like no, it's kind of the basic stuff I eat the little bit of all these food groups and I just eat in moderation. Also when I moved to Texas the Asian food scene there is amazing. Oh really? It's fucking amazing. In Dallas? Like what kind of Asian food? Vietnamese food

is outrageous. The Taiwanese beef noodle soup is fucking amazing which is like Chinese ramen. That's interesting that it's in Dallas Yeah, I didn't know that either Dallas is culturally super diverse. Dallas is a fucking great city. It's awesome It is a great city. I was just there two weeks ago. The food is so good I love it there if it's bad for you. They have perfected it That's for sure what in my first week there

I went to the Texas Fair and I had fried pumpkin pie with a scoop of ice cream and hot chocolate. And it was like the best fucking thing I've ever had in my life. But it's so bad for you. So it was just fried pumpkin pie. It was good. They don't play games in Texas. No, the whole fair is just fried stuff. Well, fairs are ridiculous.

Yeah. Just going to a fair is ridiculous. You're going to get fat just walking through the gates. I did, you know, definitely. And then, honestly, like, the work was so intense. By my own doing, I was so into making Doom. And still am. But I had to balance it out.

Like, I think I was reaching a milestone of, like, learning how to eat better and sleep right. Like, I was just acting like I was still in college. And how many hours a day were you guys working? Because when I was friends with the id guys, this was like Quake 3 before it came out. Like, way back then I was friends with those guys. And when I was doing gigs in Dallas, I'd go to id studios and they'd show me all the stuff.

They told me, yeah, it was pretty awesome. I'm embarrassed that I'm coming here and I'm not good at Quake. So, like, I was like, shit, he's going to totally give me garbage. No, it's okay. But you play with a controller, which I tell people, you play with an Xbox controller, which is quite embarrassing. Well, I'm pretty good with it though. But how do you not use a mouse and keyboard?

I do sometimes. But that's probably why you're not good at Quake. Well, Quake, Jamie and I were bonding over this. When Quake came out, I was in art school, and everybody was using Apple products. So, like, literally no one I knew had a PC. Like, one dude in a dorm had PC, and he'd go there, and he'd turn on Doom, and you're like, holy shit, this is crazy. But, like, I mean, I was like an Apple guy, hardcore. So I just missed it, you know, like that boat.

But I play now, and I'm okay. I like missed it. You know, like that boat. But I play now and I'm okay. I like playing PUBG. I mean, certain games you have to play mouse and keyboard and like PUBG and stuff like that. Jamie, are computers updated? Is everything updated? We're ready to go. We're ready to go. We'll play afterwards. No, I'm not very

good at all. Come on, man. You're a fucking you work in the game industry. I do. You have to play a little. You can't say I'm not going to play because I'm not good. No, I will. You're saying to all these kids out there that are not good, don't even start. Oh, no. I do. You have to play a little. You can't say, I'm not going to play because I'm not good. No, I will. Then you're saying to all these kids out there that are not good, don't even start. Oh, no. I will totally play.

I'm just not. We didn't make Quake Champions. I was made by another team. Well, they did an awesome job. They did do an awesome job. Everything that comes out of id is always going to have a certain level of quality. So it's a different team at id that made Quake Champions? Yes.

It was outsourced, managed by Tim Willits and then outsourced to, believe saber and so it's will it's with them now where is will uh will it's i believe is with them but i'm gonna probably get shout out to tim how are you buddy yes i've seen that guy in forever and and uh he left uh the couple months ago i think but uh he's retired drinking no he's on the beach he's with them now. Okay. Yeah like doing something Awesome, I don't know. I don't know can't tell us. I don't even know to be honest Like this I just head down making do I get it So how many days a week you guys working when you when you're in crunch time are you working six seven days a week on? This thing um it's not really crunch. It's funny. I Prepared for this interview. I watched all your video game interviews, and I know that crunch comes up a lot.

But, like, the—this is going to sound hokey. It's like a lifestyle. Like, I live and breathe this. You know, like, no one makes me stay at the office. And even when I come home, I see my kids, I do my thing, and then I just do research. Like, it sounds ridiculous, not unlike my diet, but, like, my research is that of a 13-year-old. Like, I play fucking video games and read comic books and just engross myself in pop culture because essentially what we do is make pop culture content for—that's pop culture content, you know? That didn't make sense.

No, it makes sense. I know what you're saying. So you just have to, like, you know, ingest a ton of it, but the no it makes sense I know you're saying so you just have to like you know Ingest a ton of it which means that it's 24 7. I mean I get I get up really early I try to do the exercise thing I couldn't really fit in going to do any kind of training or anything in the afternoons because it was just family and stuff so I try to do that in the mornings and then I come home and Put the kids school, and then I have like about two hours where the house is empty, and I'll just play games, you know.

So you're training real early then? I do. It's horrible, but I do the 6 a.m. one, which is fucking holy shit, dude. Yeah. So you're up at 5, shove something in your mouth? No, not anything. I made that mistake. I drank a protein shake once before training.

That was a fucking disaster. Holy shit. So I don't eat anything. I drink water. I didn't even know what the hell I was doing again i didn't knew nothing of nutrition so i was like it's 5 30 and i gotta be healthy i'm gonna drink this and like yeah you can't train knee on belly i'm like dude this is we're gonna have a serious fucking problem in like two seconds yeah yeah it's uh the same thing with yoga hot yoga i've tried to do it after breakfast you

literally can't do it i actually i i'm tired tired too like so I'm I'm pretty much just water you know and and it's only an hour so I could kind of get through it I don't know if this BCAs are helping or not but I sometimes put that in my water just because BCAAs branched chain amino acids is that good yes yes for sure yeah um good before you train and after you train yeah and depending upon who you ask you know there's a different protocol just for a little extra juice you know i don't know like to to help uh because i get a lot of muscle strains uh so strains yeah like in my calves and stuff like in like cramps is that what you're saying i guess like taking any electrolytes i'm i'm they're going away because I'm hydrating that was another thing the nutritionist said was that I was probably

Dehydrated way more than I realized so I'm drinking water like and it's actually working like I actually feel like I'm getting less of those and I'm also hungry less like one of her things was that Probably some of what my cravings are for food is that I'm actually thirsty. So now I like chug a big glass of water. And the cravings do kind of, those 11 o'clock cravings kind of subside a little bit. But yes, I try to do it in the mornings. It's just super, super rough. Yeah, over the last couple of weeks, last week in particular, I've been drinking a shitload of water. Just a shitload.

Like last night at the comedy store, I must have drank drank seven bottles of water which is great until I got home I got up to pee three times in the middle of the night last night. I'm like fuck. Yeah, I'd wake up It's like three in the morning like god damn it. I can't hold it in no shit I just kept doing it man three times. I got up to pee I'm so you would agree that just I mean obviously right just drinking drink a shit ton of water But I believe in electrolytes. I think electrolytes are very important, and I think you should find a good company that, you know, sells electrolytes that you can pour into your water and will make a difference.

Do you have one that you would recommend? I use Liquid IV. It's a sponsor of the podcast, just for full disclosure. But I actually enjoy it, and even if it wasn't a sponsor, I would absolutely use it. It tastes good. You pour it in there it's got like salt a little bit of sugar and a lot of electrolytes and it's just fucking really good for you that's awesome it's supposed to rehydrate you twice as fast as water itself oh wow it's twice as well as water itself that's that's awesome yeah so i pour one of those into uh into a bottle uh I like to do that before I work out.

It's also something that gives you a little bit of calories. Not much. Do you do anything during? Just water. So the electrolyte stuff for the BCAA is before or after but not during? I don't do it. I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that, but I don't. The most I ever do is if I'm training really hard.

that I but I die I know the most I ever do is if I'm training really hard like if I'm doing something really crazy then I'll then I'll drink something with electrolytes while I'm working out like a Gatorade or a powerade or something like that just to try to replenish yeah glucose levels is that good to drink Gatorade while you're doing exercise sure okay because I feel like it is like yeah I'm pretty exhausted I have to be honest they have little bottles of Gatorade I do get energy yeah yeah yeah I'm pretty exhausted, I have to be honest, they have little bottles of Gatorade. I do get energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a reason why athletes drink it.

They're not assholes. That's true. I don't know. They're always drinking the logos on the cup, but I'm like, is that some kind of special power? The issue with things like Gatorade or Powerade or any of those sports drinks, air quotes, is if you're not doing sports, you shouldn't be drinking them. It's like if you're just laying around drinking Gatorade, there's a fuckload of sugar in that shit. But if you're running hills or if you're rucking with like a 50-pound backpack on and you're goddamn exhausted,

well, if you drink one of those things, it'll give you some energy and it'll replenish some electrolytes and give your body some glucose. There's some benefits to that stuff. It's just when to use it and why you use it is what's important. But there's definitely benefits to taking those sports drinks. Your facility out there is fucking awesome. It's pretty dope. I love it. The bats thing?

The clubs? Club bells? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. I've never done any kettlebells. I need to though because I don't know that my... I can show you some of the stuff. It's pretty easy. If you have a lightweight kettlebell, you could learn it. You really should start with a lightweight one so you don't hurt yourself. Who's the guy who works for you? He's got the beard. I met him

first. Taylor? Taylor, I think. He has a black t-shirt on. Jeff? Yeah, Jeff. And I shook his hand and I was like, my goodness, I think you've been tossing around. He's just corn-fed. Seriously. He's a big old fella. You've been doing something, dude. Yeah, they're big fellas.

The great thing about kettlebells or clubbells, those clubs, is that you're using your whole body. That's the thing about those things. It actually enhances your athletic ability. It enhances your ability to do sports, particularly jiu-jitsu. Things like Turkish get-ups. You ever do Turkish get-ups? I was joking with my friend yesterday. So, no, I've seen them.

I think if you put the word Turkish in front of anything, it usually means it's pretty gnarly. So, like. Turkish sauna. Yeah. Turkish bath. Turkish prison. Right. Midnight Express.

Wasn't that a Turkish prison? Yes. That is the magnifier for everything. Turkish. That's funny. Turkish wrestling. Yeah, true. But I've never done one, but they look pretty serious.

They're legit. Turkish get-up is one of my favorite exercises because it's not romantic. It doesn't give you big pecs. But, man, for jiu-jitsu, it's a real game changer. And that's with the one leg, like you have one leg out, one leg. Well, you start off on your back. You start off laying on your back. You press the kettlebell up, and then you sit up. And then once you sit up, you get one the kettlebell up and then you sit up and then once you sit up you get one leg under you and then you go up and

then you go all the way up stand straight up and then drop all the way back down you should watch a video ideally you should find a coach and have someone correct all your form so that you have it down and then you can do it on your own but the beautiful thing about that is like you could have a kettlebell and you sit in your office and just for five minutes, just do Turkish get ups for five minutes and do it a couple of times a day and it'll change your body. That's awesome. It'll change your core strength and your shoulder strength and your shoulder stability because you got this thing overhead at the end of it. And then you're dropping it back down and you're, you know, resting your body back

down and starting all over again. It's a very difficult exercise. I think working with someone is what I need to do because at 43, I'm finding that, like, I injure myself because I'm not exercising correctly. Clearly, I'm not doing anything correctly. But, like, I'll try to do some extra stuff outside of training to, you know, work on things. And it's always something. And then when I get something, it fucks everything up for months. some extra stuff outside of training to work on things. It's always something. When I get something, it fucks everything up for months. I did something to my bicep and I couldn't do half the shit

I needed to do in the morning in training. It was a pain in the ass. Actually, I'm not really doing anything anymore. I do just some basic simple shit. Basic simple shit is fine. Just body weight squats, chin-ups, push-ups, stuff like that. That's fine. Like just body weight squats chin ups push-ups stuff like that That's it. Yeah, that's does real good for you. The thing is like you're doing something right because you got a purple belt

All right. Yes, so you congratulations on that. Thank you. But also, you know, you're doing jujitsu That's a fucking hard thing to do man It's like I gotta do something because when I wasn't doing it I got the kids and the work because Because, you know, it is a lifestyle, but it's also a lifestyle that involves sitting on your ass, staring at a TV screen. Yeah. What kind of chairs do you guys sit in to keep from getting back pains? I don't really sit that much, like, for me. Your standing desk?

No, I'm just walking the whole fucking time. Like, just walking to this thing, walking to that thing. And then we just have pretty basic desks, but a lot of people do standing desks, for sure. And I like those a lot, people do standing desks for sure. And I like those a lot too. I don't have one. Because, again, I don't really sit anywhere specific. I have an office, but I'm never in it.

You're always moving around, talking to different people about this and that. Which is good because when I sit for too long, my lower back, I got like a bulge in the lower back area. I don't know. And if I sit too much, it kind of bugs me. Everyone who does jujitsu has something going on with their back. Yeah. I'm a little worried about that because I found a thing that you get the kids and before it, I was like, you know, roughhousing with them and you're fucking breathing heavy. And it's just like, shit, dude. And so I'm like, what can I do? I i'm like i don't fucking like basketball i think running sucks like i don't want to just work out like you know so i i did this and it became a fun

engaging way to get healthy it's a game you know you're playing a game it's like it cleans up everything like i can't eat shitty food because i'm gonna feel like shit on that so like yeah it had this ripple effect in my life. That was fucking amazing Yeah, and and and a really healthy pursuit, but the back thing Is that guaranteed that like well this things you can do to mitigate it and I'll show you some of the things we have Here at the machine called the reverse hyper Unfortunately this just came up in a podcast yesterday as well reverse hyper machine Which is a great machine for strengthening your lower back.

And then there's one of my sponsors is Teeter. They make those inversion tables and they have this thing called the Dex. And it's like you bend over. It's a D-E-X-X. Is that what it is? Just one X. And you bend over at the waist

and it just like decompresses your spine and relaxes everything. I'll show it to you afterwards. I'll show it to you afterwards. Because I want to keep doing it for health reasons. Yeah, no, for sure. I found something that is a good, adds something to my life in a healthy way. Yeah, I love it. It's awesome, but it does beat you up.

There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I've seen you wearing your gi in some pictures. Are you wearing your gi again and training more with your gi? Did you always train with your gi? Well, I trained with the gi and no gi i have a black belt in both i know but like i i it seemed i could be completely wrong it seemed like you were doing a lot of no gi for a while no gi yeah but lately it seems like you're wearing the gi again but i could be completely wrong no i i i think both are good i think there's nothing wrong with the gi the what the gi teaches you is defensive postures.

It teaches you defensive techniques better because you can't pull out of everything. So you have to do everything with proper technique. Because when everything gets slippery in snow gi, you just pull out of stuff. Sure. But you can't do that if someone has a hold of your sleeves and they get their fist fully wrapped in there. You're not getting out, and then you're just going to get deeper in. You've got to use technique. You've got to use technique.

You've got to use the proper defense. Do you have a preference or just it's all good? I think both are good. I think both are good. Look, if you live in a place where people are wearing winter coats, learning how to fight with a gi is great. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, you grab a coat.

I mean, a coat is like a weapon that a person is wearing on them. You use their own coat against them. is like a weapon that a person's wearing on them. You use their own coat against them. I saw a great podcast clip with you and Guy Ritchie, and you were staring at his tie, and you were salivating. Yeah, it's like the thing with ties. I always tell people that if you have a tie, you should have a Velcro thing in the back.

Just take a nice tie, put it on, tighten it up, and then snip the back, and then sew in some Velcro so it seals up like this so that if someone yanks on your neck it just pulls that tie off. Just put on paranoid. But I mean your collar itself, right? Like a good shirt collar

you could choke someone with that. You know, you do an Ezekiel choke with that. I like the community. With your sleeves, you could use your own sleeves you could collar choke in someone, one of those chokes, with a good stiff dress shirt. You can get in there pretty deep.

Collar choking somebody with a dress shirt on, that would be pretty sick. You totally could. But with a jacket, like a leather coat, that person's a dead man. If you had a street fight with a judo player, and you're wearing a leather jacket, good luck. You're going to get thrown in your head. our head instructor does a lot of judo stuff and his fucking grip is oh my goodness yeah they have crazy core strength too those guys have crazy upper body and core strength because they're so used to just yeah everything is throwing you and but you like when they're

demoing and they grab your collar and you're just like, what the fuck, dude? Like, I'll never get this off. Hand strength. Yeah. A lot of them, what they do is they take geese or towels and they throw it over a chin-up bar and they do chin-ups by just holding onto the towel or holding onto the gee. There's a wiry, like every muscle is like taught with those guys, you know? Yeah. Like, it's crazy.

Even if they look skinny. Like, they grab ahold like you could you like they grab a hold of you you're like holy shit well you look at their hands and you see their knuckles oh my god flamed yeah every knuckle like sticks out that far that's you see a lot of with jujitsu guys that's the truth like the ears totally telltale sign don't fuck with that guy but if the knuckles are fucked up you should just do whatever that person says like have you seen megaton diaz's hands dude holy shit they're like i mean see if you find an image of megaton diaz is that arthritis is that what that is yeah so is he like so he's in he's in pain well i want i don't know i mean you'd have

to ask him but god damn i do that guy will rip neck right off. Oh my god one of them Steven Seagal movies I could do it for real like Roadhouse. I was just gonna say that dude That's like one of my favorite movies Like that scene where he does that they stood that guy that bad guy is fucking crazy like he just I used to What guys like guys like you in prison? I remember being a kid being like holy Jesus God God. That movie's so good in all the worst ways. See, look at Megaton Diaz's hands. Look at his knuckles.

That's just one image of him. There's a bunch of images of him with his knuckles. Yes. His hands are just gnarly. I mean, there's a lot of jujitsu guys like that. You know, what is so, it's been said a million times, they are also, the community around it is, that's another part that I really fell in love with because it's like dad jitsu where I go. Like, we all want to get in shape.

And there's younger guys who are really athletic and old. We have one woman who's 72 because her son is there and her son's a fucking beast. And he fucking did this to me. But it's just awesome. Like, we're all trying to get healthy and we're learning shit and we're helping each other. That's great. It's fucking great, dude. I love it.

Yeah, it's an awesome way to exercise. I'm wondering if one day they're going to be able to figure out some sort of a virtual reality learning game. That's one of the things that I talked with Carmack about. And I was like, I see, because Carmack has done some martial arts himself. And I was like, I see he's actually very good at judo And yes, ooh, and he's really apparently he choked somebody out at the office once I think the person asked for it But there's some story of like they wanted to see if John could do it and he was like, okay and just like

Okay, I'll choke you out now. Yeah. Yeah, I spoke I worked I overlapped with him by like a month And he said one thing to me and it was pretty cool He told me not to put greats in the game because they don't look good and I was like, yes, sir That will never happen greats something to do Like greats he would run on something with greats when you look at them at an angle They like do all the tech guys right now are like Jesus Hugo like it's very specific But yeah, he just told me not to do that, and I was like, I will not. That's all he told you?

Yes. He's super nice. I didn't know what to say to him. I had no reason. I didn't want to bother him. Look, that's me and him. That is awesome. Yeah.

He is, the dude's legit. The founders of id, John Romero, that guy, I mean, I really feel like we're standing on the shoulders of geniuses when we make this game. Like, a lot of what makes Doom Eternal good is what they did in their game. Like, the rocket launcher is such a well-balanced weapon in the original Doom game. And we took a lot of inspiration from that. And the fucking characters are so well-designed. The pinky and the cacodemon and the sounds they make. The game still holds up to this day.

Yeah, it does. Like straight fucking legit geniuses. Even with the clunky old school graphics, it's still very immersive. It actually adds to the charm because when you look at it now, it just looks like a fucked up Saturday morning cartoon. Seriously. It's like something they would make on Adult Swim, you know? Yeah.

Well, Quake 1 became a big hit even after Quake 2 and quake 3 a lot of guys went back to quake 1 Yeah, because it was like a faster game and it was like and a lot of times guys actually cut all the textures out Anyway, yeah, so they could see everything. Yeah, which is really weird I just last year played through quake 1 single-player and quake 2 single-player campaign with mouse and keyboard Yes, you would be very proud but I didn't play the multiplayer. But I actually am going to just become awesome at Quake Champions. Really? Let's start today. I'm down.

Very often part of my research, like, when I play is to – I have to achieve – I don't want to – like, I have to reach mastery in a game to understand to find the fun Yeah Part of the research that you have to do when you're designing a game and when you play other games To remain to that we understand like how other games are working Successfully or not is to play them long enough to achieve mastery So you really you feel that addiction you feel that engagement level and you're like, okay

I know how they did this. I know I know what I'm feeling right now do you bring in you take like professional gamers and bring them in yeah consultation and say how do you how do you feel about this absolutely watched and certainly we talked to them but it's it's dangerous because if you so absolutely but it's kind of like would you want Michael Jordan designing the next sports game like it's kind of like he can tell you he it's sort of like would you want Michael Jordan designing the next sports game? Like it's kind of like he can tell you. It's sort of like the guy who builds the race car might not be the best guy to drive it. Hold on.

Here's what's wrong with that analogy. You're talking about Michael Jordan in a game. I'm talking about game players. So bringing game players to tell you about a game is a good idea. Bringing Michael Jordan to tell you how to play a video game based on basketball is probably not the best idea. No, definitely not. We do. We talk to them. Absolutely. But point I was making was just that like you could fall into a little bit of a trap. It's absolutely part of the process. It's the smart thing to do. Again, like if you're building a race car, you go talk to race car drivers and say like, how does it feel? What

do you think? Like, well, this is loose. That feels odd. Okay, we'll go drivers and say like how does it feel? What do you think like well? This is loose that feels odd Okay, we'll go fix it. You know so how does a game like doom eternal start does it start? It starts with a meeting you say hey, we are thinking about doing this. What do you think? And then how does it get the green light? How does a game like that get going? We have from the very beginning Yes, we have a green light. I've been there for seven eight years So what happens we have a green light process where we put together an overall idea of Marty and myself You know work very closely Marty is the studio director and executive producer shout out to Marty. He's awesome. He's he's the boss He is the shit

So what you guys say like someone comes up with a car? So what are we gonna do for our next week? We talk like it's uh, you know making games is fucking awesome. Like it's it is this the fucking coolest like I Can't believe that this is my job like it's awesome. Yes. That's what everyone wants There's you didn't stick a dynamite and a crowbar wouldn't get rid of me and fucking in software Like I can't get enough of making doom games, but you hit the jack into the jackpot It's like what people want to do for a living is do something where you go to work and you're like, I can't believe this is my job.

Oh, so that's why when I go to play and to do the work, I'm like, I'm not fucking working. Like, seriously, you know? That's awesome. So, which can get a little out of hand, I guess, sometimes. But in terms of like balance

and like doing other things and like get up and exercise or do something. Um, but, uh, yeah, me and Marty, we talk quite a bit and, and it's, uh, it's, it's commercial art, you know, it's, it's, uh, business and art and, and creativity coming together. And we have a schedule and, and we have to work out the budgets and stuff like that. But ultimately we begin with like a conversation about like what it is we want to do. We're, we're talking all the time, he and I about stuff. And then we talk to other, you know, people on the team. But essentially, it begins with the executive producer and the director of the project getting together and talking. Then we work very closely with our publisher. And you start to

formulate a plan. And we had a plan and a good one for Doom Eternal. And it's cool, because we just recently had a meeting with our publisher where we were able to bring up some of the things that we talked about three years ago. And they are working now, which is a good sign. Like you are pivoting a lot during development for sure. Like, okay, that didn't work. Let's try something else. And what do you base it on? It didn't feel fun to do or it didn't look cool?

We call it just steering into things. That feels good, steer into that. That feels good, steer into that. You're always steering into the fun. Like you let the game tell you what it wants once there's enough of it on the table to judge. So what are the first processes? Like when you say, okay, you got the green light. It's time to make a game.

What's the first things that get done? Is it design? Do you sort of design what the players look like? Is it the coding? It's like everything. I mean, they begin the engine, all the different processes. Is it a unique engine? Are you using an existing engine?

And this is very good questions for Marty, the executive producer. But, yes, they begin making the engine based on what they want to do next and the goals there. And that has to, like, this is the engine of the race car, and we're discussing the kind of race car we want to make. But we should explain to people what we're talking about. We're talking about a 3D engine. Yes. Oftentimes what happens is, like, say another video game can license your 3D engine and use it with different graphics to make other games and that's a common thing Yes, 3d engine is what we're talking about. Which is every game has a different feel

It's like some people like when during the quake days some people were really into unreal Right the member that game epic games and they were like this game has a different engine. I love the way this engine feels Yes, you know because they all have different sort of car max makes some good fucking engines. Yeah. Oh my God He's a smart guy well he recognized the balance of speed to like like real-world physics versus Sort of cartoonish shit like what's what's the fun balance? It seems like quake 3 was like a really fun balance. Whereas Quake 2 was a little slower.

Quake 1 was way crazier, way faster, but didn't look as cool. What is your favorite? Champions. That's awesome. Quake Champions is the best. Tim is happy. It's the best. That's awesome. It's the best. It's everything in Quake, but ramped up. I don't like all

that stupid shit, like when lizards spit on you and it's poison, you run through it. Like, that's weak. But the weapons are really well balanced and the maps are amazing and the graphics are off the charts. The graphics are so cool. Like, while you're playing, you're like, what the fuck? Dude, it's crazy. And the artists are so amazing. I mean, the work they do is so inspiring.

That's the coolest thing. Like, you love what you do. You love the medium that you work in. I feel so fortunate because, and I speak for all of us at the team, we fucking love the type of game we make. I mean, you just saw it, dude. It's so cool. It's fucking absurd. It's like an R-rated psycho cartoon.

But it's not mean-spirited. That's what I really like about it. Like, it's kind of cool. It's fun. Itirited. That's what I really like about it like it's it's it's kind of it's cool It's like fun. It's fun fun. That was actually our main focus you again. You're killing demons like that's it fine It's just like walking dead you're allowed to kill the zombies the whole feel bad the whole purpose Is to make something we talked about quite a bit like the emotional response of the consumer like how you feel when you? Play something and we want you to smile like certain games they want you to be scared which is good survival horror games I'm on I'm on my heels I'm like oh my god you know what's

around the corner in doom we want you on your toes smiling like just fucking barreling forward like what am I gonna murder next like where is it you know and but it's it's a it's it's frivolous and it's fun and it's junk food but there as we say there is quite a bit of nutritional content in there like it's frivolous and it's fun and it's junk food But there as we say there is quite a bit of nutritional content in there like it's it's a smart game Is there any pushback? Against these kind of games like when you guys produce a game like this or create a game like this is there any? Where people are like this is too violent. This is awful. This is not really because it's not against humans like we and it's not against humans like we it and it's not

There's no agenda like it's not I guess yeah We don't really deal with that because you're murdering cartoonish looking fucking demons You know and and dude believe me like we take it full advantage of that like like I said yeah We straight up Steven Seagal these motherfuckers right in the head like it's awesome And and I think you should say Steven Seagal anymore and definitely don't use it as a verb I it's way more violent than any Seagal movie that that is true but but like I always got a kick out of his hyper extending of the limbs breaking of the arms yeah in that one in particular that glory kill 2 we were like there's

a there's a there's one pose the animation where you hold out his arm he's like that's like what guys always do what I'm holding out hope for is some sort of oculus version of doom or quake or something like that where you have like a unidirectional treadmill and you're locked into

it you've seen those things right omnidirectional is that what it's called yeah omnidirectional treadmill there's a doom VFR which is pretty cool like Was it omnidirectional? Is that what it's called? Yeah. Omnidirectional treadmill. There's Doom VFR, which is pretty cool. They made it, and it did really well, actually. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Where is it? Pull up that. Doom VFR. Have you heard of it, Jamie? I have it, but I have not played it because it came in my little cycle of getting where I couldn't stand up for a long period of time. Oh, your back issue? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie broke his butt weak Kind of a new care route. We removed those things from the office the thing that he hurt himself on Oh the hoverboards. Oh my goodness. Yeah, so the one minute people are laughing check this out next minute Some dude ankle is just straight fucking hanging off his leg. So this is the VR version of doom. Yes, it is Oh, it's pretty goddamn good. And so how are you moving around? You're teleporting, just like he does. Yeah, but how are you walking? I think that's it.

You just teleport? You stand still? I didn't work on this, so I don't really know how the movement works. Do you know, Jamie? Like, how are you going through all this? There's a little line that shoots out. That's like where you're teleporting to. Yeah.

Oh, so you stay put this work Can't move I mean that's how they had it. That's a couple years old now, so they figured out some new things Well the graphics look dope, but if you just teleporting to each spot and then standing still and punching people that's ridiculous there That's how you do it, huh, and then you go forward well I'm not doing it justice too because I didn't work on this So I couldn't really tell you how the movement actually it's obvious pretty it's pretty obvious That's what you do. You're teleporting with that green bolt. Have you ever? You know what sandbox is if you're fucked with that no and box VR. No, it's really cool. There's um

There's a company in Woodland Hills or there's a studio in Woodland Hills there's a studio in Woodland Hills and there's another one there's a couple of them around the LA area but anyway you put a haptic feedback vest on you put a helmet, VR, everything plastic guns and then you go and fight things and there's one where you go

and shoot, this one's great this one is called, what is it, something mansion what is it something mansion what is it called so they have one of these in texas zombies yeah i want to do it's the shit yeah that seems really fun rats come out you got to gun the rats down so you are in this room and like this is see they keep cutting back for what what is actually happening what the people see sure when you're there live and you see it it's fucking killer it's really cool that's really fun and they're getting better at these things they have like sort of a character school that's the boss that

comes and gets you Deadwood Mansion that's that one I love that one that's awesome there's a Star Trek game there's just quite a few of them I think they have four or five different little experiences that you could do that's all really really fun okay I'm a Star Wars one perhaps the voids different yeah I've done the Star Wars one that's at Disneyland and Disneyland downtown Disneyland before you get to the park you could go and do the void ride which is actually better than any of the rides in downtown Disney or in Disneyland itself is that the one with the Avatar flying the Necron or whatever the hell those things are called

in Avatar World when you're flying on the thing? That is in Disney World, not Disneyland. Disneyland is L.A., L.A. for land. But Disney World in Orlando has this thing called Flights of Passage, which is fucking amazing. It's the greatest, absolutely the greatest ride. Ekrons, I think. Yeah.

You ride one of those dragons in Avatar. That's awesome. And it's incredible. I would love to do a VR thing where you're like one of the colonial marines from Aliens 2, like running through it. That'd be fucking awesome. And they're coming out. They're coming out of the goddamn walls.

Yeah, you could do something like that. Hudson. I think that was awesome. That's my hope for the future, you could do something like that Hudson. That's awesome. My That's my hope for the future is that games are like that and you're actually gonna be able to exercise doing that Because I think that if you had a game where you're in a warehouse and you're actually running for your life again You know and demons are chasing you and you're shooting down things like your heart rate would be jacked You could do that for an hour and get a sick workout in and have an amazing good time. That would be awesome.

You'd get in great shape running from demons. You would. I wouldn't have to get up so early in the fucking morning. Well, think about this game. If you could play this game, but you could play this game in a warehouse where, you know, you have all of the boxes and all those stairs. They're all real stairs and real boxes yeah you're running around this pre-designed map and you're actually

engaging with these VR demons with a haptic feedback so fucking glory killing them yeah ripping out their parts to really into this glory killing but the really problem with is calling it glory killing is it sounds too much like glory hole it really does. Right, Jamie? Yeah. Do you agree? They have a new ride that got announced today for, I guess, out here at Disneyland.

The new Marvel Avengers campus is going to be opening up in the summer. They have a Spider-Man ride where it sounds like you put on a 3D headset, I think just goggles, and somehow they're tracking your hands. So during the ride, you shoot things for points. Oh, with your spider web. Then there's a leaderboard outside the ride for weekly, daily, and monthly stuff. So you and your family can get tracked and be like, oh, we're the best at this ride.

Oh, you're going to get addicted. That's how they get you. The level of sophistication going on with the games, whether you're mouse and keyboard or controller, though, it would be hard to achieve in VR. I think VR offers a very specific, unique, and fucking amazing experience. And I would just separate the two. When we're making VR games, we're definitely trying to do something else, which is cool in and of itself.

But there's, like, not only just in our game, but in a lot of games, like, there's just resource management. There's, like, high-level skill meta shit happening. I mean, you know. You play fucking Quake. So, like, you know, that's hard to reproduce In VR in certain ways at least at this time But but I think that's the thing like they want it happens a lot in games Where people want to take how you feel or how a movie engages you and apply it to a game? And I think it's like let a game be its own let a game be a game

Let a movie be a movie let VR be its own fucking experience like that looks fucking awesome like yeah But yeah if we just yeah so so uh still though yeah i would love to kill uh you know dean i i we have the vr game i should just play it but what i what i'm saying is like if someone made a doom warehouse where you guys take a 14 000 square foot warehouse just outfit it specifically for doom you got a line around the block of psychopaths waiting to play that thing for one hour i mean seriously especially somewhere like texas where there's a bunch of warehouses like you can find some warehouse district where you can get three or four of them and set them up for different maps in the game that'd be fucking awesome god

damn man i mean they're real close to being able to do something like that where it would be really accurate to Where you could have like a laser sight on your rifle and you know, yeah, yeah see things through your goggles And that'd be fucking badass. Although it's the future it is the future who go it's it's it's a lame I was not lame, you know Carmack and doing anything he wants but he's he's doing AI now. Like, he's not doing VR anymore, I heard. I heard he was just consulting with Oculus, but now he's pursuing AI. Well, let's be honest. He's too smart. He is.

He's too smart. He's from another planet. Him and Elon Musk can get together and share notes. Yes, yes. They're both super wizards. Yeah, totally. He's, I mean, I'm sure he feels challenged by AI. Yeah.

And, you know. He likes a challenge. He's a very interesting guy to talk to, I'm sure he feels challenged by AI. Yeah. And, you know. He likes a challenge. He's a very interesting guy to talk to, too. I really enjoy talking to him. Yeah, he is awesome. And you really think about what he's accomplished in the world of video games. I mean, he's the Mac Daddy. Amazing.

He really is. He's the guy who started it all, really. If you enjoy 3D games, that's the guy. That's why working at id Software, and he totally is the guy, and along with the rest of them too, like Romero and those guys. That group, fuck. Do you know him? Do you know John Romero?

I've met him a couple times. That Daikatana game, he took a lot of shit for that game. That was a fun game. Yeah, yeah. It took way too long, and there was a lot of bugs in it and all that good stuff but dude i played it when it came out i was like this game is fucking badass it and yeah i mean that guy is the all of them they're they're they're like the you know like it was like daikatana was like the physics of quake one but with the graphics of that era.

See if you can find a video of a Daikatana in-game. It was a fun game, and I was like, this might catch on, but people were down on it before it ever came out. There was so much shit talk about it because it took so long

and cost so much money, and they had these giant offices in Dallas with this huge penthouse. Yeah. They're spending so much money. I personally think they, some of the best work that they, yeah, look at that. That's a little dark. Yeah, this image right here is dark.

Yeah. This is not the best video in terms of like what you're able to see in-game stuff yeah there was a lot of hype and and certainly um see if there's some other other video because that's like so dark you can't see anything is that it i mean it was hard to on line yeah on the internet bringing up a bunch of other stuff oh yeah i think the best work that they did was when they were all together yes like keeping Like keeping the band together. Mm-hmm. Honestly, making games is definitely a team sport, and you've got to have everybody working together really well if you want to pull it off.

You also have to have, like, Division I pro athletes. Oh, yeah. Not pro. Rock stars. Division I's not a good idea. Like, if you're going to make a game, you need everybody to be the same level of dedication, same level of hard work. Rock stars.

Yeah. Okay, this is it. Oh, this is... Why does he have a sword? I never saw this. Usually it's like... What is this? I don't think this is the game, dude.

It's not it? It's the Daikatana. No. No, this is not it. Oh, okay. It might be. I don't know. It's a mod. I mean's not it? No. It's not Katana. No. No, this is not it. Oh, okay. It might be. I don't know. It's a mod.

I mean, maybe it's a mod. I never saw it like that. What I saw was a lot of cool rocket launchers. Like, there's one rocket launcher that would shoot, and it would come out like DNA strands. Sure, sure. Remember the rocket where, like, two rockets would twist at the same time? They go back and forth? I just saw that happen right there.

Yeah. This is what the game looked like. It's just really dark for whatever reason. Huh. Maybe like some levels you get a sword. I never saw it. I never saw this either. This looks weird.

I think this is the game though. Yeah, I think so too. I've been fucking forever since I played it. I know that Romero likes what we're making, which is a huge compliment. What is he up to now? I don't know. He lives in Ireland, I think. What? Yeah, I think so.

But when I met him, he was a super nice guy. I met Adrian Carmack at a bar in Texas, which was fucking awesome. And it was funny because he started telling me, like, well, if you guys are going to make it, you know, we were in production on Doom Eternal. He's like, if you guys are going to make a Doom game, here's what we thought when we made Doom and everything he listed. We were all like, that's what we think. You know, like he's like, we just did stuff that made us laugh and made us smile.

I'm like, that's what we say. You know, like it was cool. He was super nice. So to me, id Software is kind of like Disney. Like they invented a genre and we are part of the new generation there. And we have a legacy to live up to. Like It's the it's a really special place to work. I've a tremendous amount of I don't want to say pressure, but We're all motivated. Yeah, well, it's it's you know, you're working at the highest spot That's like yeah, if you go if you think about it's like if it's rap you're at death bro records

You know, I mean you're like at the highest spot. And the coolest thing is like the type of games that they have always made, just they are able to get away with things that a lot of mainstream AAA games struggle with just because of how violent it is. I mean, they are like, again, it's Evil Dead 3 with a Transformers budget. Like, who the fuck gets to make that? Right. It's Evil Dead 3 with a Transformers budget. Like, who the fuck gets to make that? Right.

Like, you know, like, we, those, the shit you see, we spend a shitload of time making that stuff. Oh, I can only imagine. Whereas, like, in a lot of situations I've been in, it's like, yeah, we want to cut this dude in half. It's like, we don't have a lot of money for that, dude, so do it pretty fast. You know, like, we're like, there are artists, like, craftsmen, you know, working on the entrails. Like, this looks pretty good. craftsman, you know, working on the entrails, like, this looks pretty good. And literally the notes are like, I need like the intestine to kind of like flap a little when you get the thing off, you know, like, and it's... How do you know if you've crossed the line? Is there ever been a time when you had a scene and people like dial that back? We actually tonally, you know, you say,

how do you start the project? It's kind of like, there's a fair amount of brainstorming and the strength of any creative team is, at least for a game, is how you brainstorm with each other. The synergy in that room has to be good. You got to be selfless. You got to show up. You got to be willing to support other ideas, other people's ideas as much as your own. We have a fucking amazing group in that regard. But tonally, we try to establish that to like, look, guys, we're not making saw.

We're not making hostile. It's not malicious. It's not meant to make you cringe And we actually cut together a little video of like what we thought violence wise was Inappropriate and tonally felt off and then we made another video of what felt right and that was Evil Dead 2 with like It's not a slow trickle of blood out of a sliced open wrist It is some dudes head came off and Hawaiian punch just starts fucking shooting out of his head. You know, like, uh, that's really what it is.

Like it's cartoonish, you know, and it goes so far that you, because the thing is you do this so much so often. I mean, you are murdering demons per minute. Like, I don't know what it is, but it's fucking crazy. If it was off-putting and realistic and kind of like, ooh, you'd be so turned off. It'd be sick. Like, it'd make you sick after a while. That's a weird way of looking at it.

I don't think you're right. What you're doing is, like, super gory and disgusting. You think somehow or another that will make you less sick, that it was more realistic and less bloody? Oh, for sure. What? I mean, totally, we could twist that where every one of those is mean-spirited and really off-put Oh, for sure. I mean, totally, we could twist that where every one of those is mean-spirited and really off-putting, for sure.

Okay, I don't want you to sell me some PR stuff to sort of defend your game against people that are anti-violence, because that's what it sounds like. What you're doing is super bloody and disgusting and violent. To say that somehow or another that is less off-putting than less gory is pretty, that's a ridiculous argument.

I don't want you using it here or anywhere else. Well, it's, Joseph, it is not. This is no PR. This is legit. It sounds like you've been coached. No, no, no. Like, this is my message to the team. I mean, sincerely, like.

Okay, you're coaching them. Well, because they make the content. So, like, think of this. All right, good. I them. Well because they make the content so like Think of this. All right. I good. I like this because this is the fucking truth. So You look at saw you look at torture porn horror movies They're they're cutting Achilles tendons with a fucking exacto knife and the dude is screaming in pain and he's a person like This is gnarly shit. He doesn't look like he's having a good time like Like this is gnarly shit. He doesn't look like he's having a good time like Versus on Evil Dead 2 when you flop off the head of that one

Grandma creature that comes up out of the basement and like fucking buckets of blood start coming out of her head right people cartoonish so like Yeah, it's it's critical zero PR spin. That is we have to believe that because look Your design story is going to be exposed to the, to the consumer in two fucking seconds. Like they can see through your bullshit in five seconds. If they're like, dude, you're trying to sell. No, like, so we have to have an honest, good design story that we can stand behind. That is true. And that, that is the truth.

I mean, we basically looked at like cartoons and like make it over the top, the animation. So every time, here's a perfect example Every time you murder a caca demon which is those flying balls you pull out their eyeball What is it called a caca a caca demon a caca? What's the spell it? cac Cac caco caco kids you have kids right I do I have three kids caca well caca demon It's a poo-poo demon sure the the uh the so every time you pull out his eyeball uh you literally hear like a i can't do it but yeah sound like a like a funny cartoony sound and that is absolutely intentional to take

the edge off what you're doing because if it was more gruesome and they're like it's the exorcist versus evil Dead 2. Those are tonally two completely different movies. You know, House. House was a movie that came out in the 80s that was inspired by Evil Dead. That's like a fucking comedy. I mean, it is a comedy. And it's a horror comedy versus The Exorcist, which is fucking amazing.

Fucking amazing. But really very serious, you know. And that's how we're able to do what we do. Okay, stop selling it. Stop selling the violence thing. I get it. I see what you're saying. What is this, a caca demon?

That's a caca demon. It's caca. That's poopoo. It looks like poop. Like if you had a demon shit, that's what it would look like. Like, oh no, tearing you up on the way out. What is that, an original one? That is the original caca demon.

From the original Doom? Yes. Oh, cool. So it's an updated version of that, but you know, just more graphically intense. Yes. So when you do something like this and you release this game, obviously there'll be patches and some upgrades and some different things that you do, but how long

do you work on this game before you guys move on to the next thing? We're already moving on to, well, I don't want to say the next thing. That is a PR answer because I'm not allowed to say that. So you have ideas already. Ideas, certainly.

And DLC. DLC is guaranteed. What is that? Basically like a small episode of Doom that we would sell after launch. Why is it called DLC? Downloadable content, I believe, is what that sounds like. Do you think that anyone would know after launch. Why is it called DLC? Downloadable content, I believe is what that sounds like. Oh, do you think that anyone would

know what we were talking about right there? I'm so used to... Jamie would? But Jamie's a super nerd. I'm so used to the gaming convention speak. But yes, it is... It's like an episode. We made the movie and now we're going to release an HBO

series of it. Oh, okay. So you'll have this game, and then you'll have a bunch of other ones that are based off the same engine, same characters, different journeys, different things that'll come up? Well, all centered around the Doom guy. Yeah. But yeah, basically the adventures of Doom guy. And how long do you do that for before you move on to the next game? It's hard to say. You know, certainly we're always kind of dual tracking things and talking and,

you know, always, you know, because you never know when the cool idea is going to come along and you're kind of jotting down notes. I always have kind of my notepad out just thinking about stuff like as I'm, I mean, you never know when it's going to be something cool, you know, you're playing something or you see something or watch something so uh and then we keep those conversations going on the side and see how it goes so is there any do you guys like keep your eye open for like where vr is headed and things like that and go well not yet we're not ready for that yet but one day down the road we'll have something like that kind of a different again like we're like It's sort of like with cars. I went to school for automotive design. Oh, yeah I went to wind up in video games

Just because I love video games, you know the the training in automotive design art. Have you ever been art center? No, it's dude. You should fucking go. It's fucking where is it? It's in Pasadena and it's okay it's like the Harvard of design schools. And they do cars there and products. But, yeah, the cars that they have on display, you know, the big clay models about that big, they're fucking amazing. And really, really amazing place. You know, the design process that you learn there, you can apply to kind of anything.

I would say anything, but a lot of things, certainly a video game for sure. Cause it's just kind of, it's actually the questions you're asking, which is like, how do you start from nothing to something, you know, like that involves large groups of people. And you kind of learned that there. I forgot your original question, but, oh yeah, no, it's like, you know, so I use a lot of car analogies at the office quite a bit. And it's kind of like we make a race car. And if VR is something else, that's like an SUV. That's like just another kind of car.

So, like, we kind of perfected how to make race cars. And it's been doing it since the 90s. So, like, Doom Eternal is just another race car. I understand what you're saying. So like Doom Eternal is just another race car and a fleet. I understand what you're saying. I'm just thinking that as augmented reality and then virtual reality become more and more accessible to consumers, I'm wondering, you know, like where video games are headed. I'm wondering if you think that's where they're headed or if you think there's always going to be a place for them on an actual video game.

Or on an actual computer, rather. I think there'll always be a place for them in the actual video game. I think they'll... Or on an actual computer, rather. I think there'll always be a place for them in the actual video game. I think that's where my focus is. Other people, like Carmack, are looking to see where... Well, not anymore, but where video games were going to go next. But I am fully focused on where they are now and how to make what they are now better. Well, listen, man, you guys did a fucking amazing job. It looks really cool. Thank you.

It looks really fun, and I'm sure people are going to waste massive chunks of their life and get a tremendous amount of entertainment out of it. I hope so. Anything else to tell us? We can go play now. Oh, really? Let's go play.

Quick champions? Yeah. Anything else? We good? I don't think so. I don't know. So it's out? Oh, it's March March, March 20th.

Yes. Doom Eternal coming out March 20th. So not long folks. Get your sweaty little hands ready and we'll be available for PC, Xbox, everywhere. Yeah. All the platforms, everything, you know, absolutely. Yeah. All right.

Beautiful. Full tilt. All right, man. Well, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you very much. Thanks for doing what you do. You've wasted a lot of people's time. It's awesome. All right. Beautiful. Full tilt. All right, man. Well, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you very much. Thanks for doing what you do. You've wasted a lot of people's time.

It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.