The Joe Rogan Experience - #1489 - Ronnie Coleman

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

Ronnie Coleman is a retired professional bodybuilder. He is a 8-time consecutive winner of Mr.Olympia, and also won a record 26 titles as a IFBB professional.

One. Mr. Coleman. What's going on? Great to meet you, brother. It's a real honor. I mean, you are, when I was, like, really into bodybuilding and reading the magazines, and I always said that you looked like a dude who they invented in a Marvel comic book to kill the Hulk. Like, that's what you looked like when you were in your prime, man. Yeah, I felt like I probably could, too, back in those days. I mean, god damn, you were freakishly huge.

It was crazy to see. It was like, you know, I remember paying attention to bodybuilding from the beginning, like the Franco, Colombo, and Schwarzenegger days, to what you guys had become, you know, when you were in your prime. You just redefined everything. Everything was just so extreme. Yeah, we were pretty tough back in those days. Everything was hard, you know. The guys I was competing against were real good. You know, I just came out of nowhere, you know,

because I got in bodybuilding real late. You know, where I'm from, we didn't have it, and I didn't find out about it until I graduated college, went out to Texas, and started working for the police department. How old were you at the time? I was about 24. So that's when you started bodybuilding. That's when I started. But I had been working out since I was 12, 13. For sports? Yeah.

I was on the powerlifting team. Oh, okay. I did powerlifting in high school. So I was on the powerlifting team. Where I'm from, Louisiana, it's a real small town. A lot of the guys are kind of big like me, kind of strong like me. You know, a lot of people don't understand, but strength is something like a natural gift, you know.

You can work on it and get better at it, but you also have to be gifted a little bit. Have to have a nice base. Yeah, you have to have a nice base and you have to have a little talent. Yeah. You know, like this guy, I think, I can't remember his name, but he deadlifted 1,100 pounds.

Oh, that Game of Thrones guy? Yeah, yeah. The mountain? That's a gift. You know, that's talent. Yeah. Yeah, he's gifted. Everybody can't do that, you know. I did 800, you know, for a couple reps,, but I don't think I can do 1100. That's a lot of weight. That's a lot of weight.

He's an enormous human being, though. That guy, that's a Viking right there. Yeah, you have to have a lot of weight to be able to pull a lot of weight like that, too. Yeah. You, in your career, you were known for lifting large amounts of weight, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I was saying, you know, I started powerlifting when I was in high school. You know, I had like the gift of strength. You know, I was pretty strong in high school, you know, all throughout my college days.

And, you know, it was just something that I think I was kind of born with a little bit, you know, because you don't just start lifting heavy weights like that all of a sudden. You have to have, like I said, you have to have some kind of natural talent for it. Well, there are some crazy photos of you during the Mr. Olympia days when you were a police officer. Is that you? Look at that. Yeah, that's me in the ninth grade on the left, and that's me winning. What happened to your arm on the left?

You got a cast on. Yeah, I broke my arm. You fucked somebody up. Yeah, no. I was playing football, and I think I fell on my wrist or something and cracked it or something. And that's me winning the Mr. Universe, turning pro in the middle. And that's me winning the 99 Mr. Olympia for right there. Wow.

Damn, you were big. Yeah, I was kind of big a little bit there. A little bit. Well, you know, I got a lot bigger than that. That was my second Olympia. I only weighed about 255 there. What's the biggest you ever got? I was 295, my seventh one.

So I put on a little bit more weight as i got on up there but is it one of those things where you just kind of have to keep up with everybody else and everybody just keeps getting bigger and bigger no it was that thing with me i was trying to distance myself from everybody else so i kept getting bigger and bigger so nobody would catch up with me. And what a lot of people don't understand is you see me big up there like that, but, you know, it took a long time for me to get there. You know, that didn't happen overnight. I put on about five pounds of muscle, between five and ten pounds of muscle a year. And that came from all that, you know, that heavy lifting, a lot of eating, a lot of eating. What was a standard meal for you?

I mean, it wasn't a lot to me, you know, but if somebody, you know, normal tried to eat it, it'd probably be a lot. So I'd eat probably like a pound of chicken, grilled breast, you know, with half a cup of rice. That was a normal meal? Yeah, that was normal. And how many of those did you have a day? I had about six meals a day, you know. It's kind of hard to eat like that, you know. So I would have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat and go back to sleep.

Really? Yeah. Was that annoying? No, no. I would think that would be annoying. You're tired and sleeping and got to wake up to eat? No, you kind of get used to it. When you eat like that, you're hungry every three hours.

Oh, really? Yeah, every two or three hours you're hungry. Because I'm not eating a lot of fat. It's lean. I'm not eating a lot of carbs. So it's a little bit of food at a time. For me, it was. And you would get down to what percent body fat?

I was 0.33. 0.33? What does that mean? Is that less than 3%? That's less than half a percent. Oh, 0.33. Like, what? 0.33.

How does a human get that low? I got to attribute it to my genetics. But was it also like a trickle-down system? Like off-season, say if you, like, how many weeks would it take for you to get ready for Mr. Olympia? 10 to 12. 10 to 12. So at 12 weeks out, how much body fat do you think you were carrying around then? About 3%.

So 3% was a high? That's the highest, yeah. Jesus. Would you get tired all the time? I'm 330 pounds at that, though. Oh, my God. Would you get tired all the time with that little body fat? I'm real good in fat.

That's good in fat. 3% body fat real good in fat. That's good in fat. 3% body fat is good in fat. That's hilarious. Yeah. Jamie, see if you can pull up a picture of him winning the seventh Mr. Olympia title when he was at his heaviest. I want to see what that looks like. I was pretty big at that one.

Yeah, you were big, man. I remember looking at the magazines and shaking my head. today. I would say oh, that's photoshopped Yeah, I didn't have Photoshop back then. No, they had it back there But you know, I was a little bit too big for that when they had me to come down a little bit for the next One. Oh really? I came down to like 275. So when you said they coaches your Judges and the judges. Yeah, the judges were telling you you're too big yeah that's when you know you fucked up that's when you're getting crazy when the judges at mr olympia yeah they're telling you a guy who's won it multiple years in a row seven years in a

row yeah they're telling you you're getting too big yeah getting too big ronnie take it down a notch yeah because you know the guy next to me is only like 250, you know. But why were they saying, you still looked amazing. Like, why were they saying you were too big? Because I was at the time. It really was too big? Yeah, for the standards back then, you know. How do they define that, though?

It's really just taste, right? Like, they look at it and they decide. Subjective, yeah, in a way. It's kind of subjective in a way. What year was the seventh one? I think it was 05. Was it 05, Ryan? No, that's the eighth one.

04 is the number seven. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, that's it right there. Wow. Yeah. God, you were huge. That does look like a guy who comes out of a lab to kill the Hulk. You know, like some evil genius.

Like the Hulk is working for the Avengers. Yeah. Yeah. So how do they make that conversation with you when they say, Ronnie, you're too big? Well, they're just talking to my nutritionist. You know, I have a nutritionist that did all my diets and all that kind of stuff for me. So they probably just, you know, told him real nicely. Yeah.

Break it down a notch. I remember there's a photo of you when you were still on the police force and you were also, I don't know if you were Mr. Olympian when you were on the police force. Yeah, three times, yeah. And then you eventually left the force. Yeah, uh-huh. You were so big. You're sitting there with the uniform on. I'm like, there is no way that's a regular uniform.

No, it's not. No, it's not a uniform. Did you wear those shorts? That can't be real. Did you arrest people with those shorts on? No, I made not a unit. Did you wear those shorts? That can't be real. Did you arrest people with those shorts on? No, I made those shorts myself. But we did wear shorts, though. We did have shorts for the police department.

I think you see that picture right there. I got on shorts in the briefing room, but they're not showing my legs right there. Right there. Yeah, right there. I have on shorts. That picture is actually bigger than that, but you just can't see it. Right there. Yeah, right there. I have on shorts if you... That picture is actually bigger than that, but you just can't see it. Did that inspire other guys you worked with to start lifting too?

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I'm not going to imagine. We had a gym at the station. Oh, really? We had about four or five stations. Every station has a gym. We have a training center with a huge gym. Yeah, I started working out there when I first hired on.

I worked out with me and the chief and some other guys. We all worked out together there for a while. And this is in the beginning before you were gigantic. Yeah, before I got real big. You know, I had to start small. Of course. Everybody's a baby at one point in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was 215 when i first started now when you first started did you have

this idea that one day that was this a dream no no no i i did it because the guy gave me a free membership to the gym i never had a dream i i just wanted a free membership because i was poor back then i couldn't you know afford to pay a gym membership because I just hired on there. Coming from Domino's Pizza where I had to eat pizza every day to survive because I didn't make that much money. By the time I got to the police department, I was still struggling and trying to get back on my feet, and I couldn't afford membership still. And this was when you were 24?

Yeah, I was 24. So you were just a big guy. Yeah, I've been big and muscular my whole entire life. But regular big, not like Mr. Olympia big. Well, I wish they would put a picture up there that somebody took not too long ago. Because when I first got into the sport of bodybuilding, I was doing security at a Mr. Olympia event. And most of the people in the audience thought that I should be on stage back then.

Really? I didn't think so. You know, what they thought that. I had 22, 23-inch arms back then. I had those 22, 21, 22-inch arms in college. How big were they when you were at your biggest? 24. 24.

That's the biggest they got. That's like a waist. Yeah, some girl. Yeah, but like a runner. Like Zack Bitter? I bet Zack Bitter got a 24-inch waist. Actually, my waist was like 29 when I first started. Wow.

Yeah. I remember Holyfield, when he was the heavyweight champion of the world, he had a 28-inch waist. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. That's a V right there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, crazy. So you do this security for the Mr. Olympia event.

91, yeah. Did that get like the bug in your head? Did you start thinking? No, no, no. No? No, no, no. I never started thinking that. How did it happen?

I won the first one in 98. So how do you enter it? What makes you want to enter something like that? Well, like I said, the guy said, if you compete, I give you a free membership to the gym. Okay. So I was just competing for a free membership to the gym because I worked full-time at the police department. I had that job. I had a couple of security jobs on the side.

So I didn't really need money from bodybuilding. I had benefits and everything. I didn't need money from bodybuilding. So you were just doing it for a free membership? I was just doing it for a free membership. So you do it, and obviously people go, this guy's got real potential. I guess they were saying that to themselves. I never heard anybody say that.

So what did you do? Like you just decided to keep going? I just kept going for the free membership, yeah. I'm not going to give it up. So competing just was about free memberships at one point in time. When did it become serious? When I won my first Olympia in 98. That's when it became serious?

First Olympia? Yeah. Do you know how many bodybuilders right now want to jump out of a building? They're going to go right to the top floor and fucking leap out a window. Yeah, but see, my dream was always to be a professional football player. So I played football junior high, high school, college, and all that kind of stuff. And when I got drafted, I was like, okay, I got a degree so I can get a good job, you know, with an accounting degree.

And I graduated with honors and all that kind of stuff. And I figured I'd just be an accountant and make good money there. So I never had no dreams or aspirations of being a bodybuilder. But you never were an accountant? No, I never made it. You never did? I never got a job. So you just got a job at the police department instead?

Uh-huh. Yeah, exactly. I tried for about two years. To get an accountant job? Yeah. I tried real hard. I did a million interviews to some of the biggest accounting firms in the world, in the United States anyway. And nobody never hired me.

So two years later, okay, I'm done. This ain't meant to be. Ain't nothing happening here, you know. That's two years. And I always saw an ad for police officers when I got the newspaper every weekend, and it was always a big ad, you know, so it stood out. So I'm like, hmm, they hiring and you don't need experience. Because all the jobs I went on, you know,

the interviews I went on, they always want you to have experience. I'm like, well, if you don't hire me, you know, you have no experience. So I'm like, well, just give up on this. You know, just go get me a job where you don't have to have experience. And like I said, the police officer was the thing that stood out the most. And I'm like, that's not like a job where I can have a lot of fun, you know.

I can't believe that you didn't really get serious until after you won Mr. Olympia. That's hard to believe. Yeah, well, you got to understand, you know, I never had any dreams of being a Mr. Olympia. I never had any dreams of being a bodybuilder. I only did it because the guy gave me a free membership to the gym. But once you started getting going and you won Mr. Olympia and you realized, wow, I'm the best, I've got to throw myself into this. Exactly. Because the way you worked out, man, I watched a video of you working out once.

And just the intensity and thinking, this guy's doing this for 12 weeks straight. The intensity that you had in the gym. doing this guy's doing this for 12 weeks straight the intensity that you had in the gym like you were there's a certain level no matter what the sport is champions have a certain level of focus and dedication exactly and i remember watching that video i'm going that's what a champion looks like that's what a champion looks like well you guys also think realize that you know i started working out when i was 12 i kind of fell in love with it when I was 13. It just kind of became a hobby once I joined the powerlifting team. So I enjoyed working out.

When you won the first Mr. Olympia, how old were you then? 34. Okay, so you had a solid eight years of lifting. This is after you were on the force for a while. Yeah, exactly. And I already had the base, too, being in high school on the powerlifting team. Now, powerlifting and lifting heavy is always a very controversial thing amongst bodybuilders, right? Because some bodybuilders never lifted as heavy as you did.

No, no. What was your philosophy on that? To each his own, you know. I lifted heavy because that's what I like to do. And that's what I was able to do. Like I said, I just was kind of like, in a way, I was kind of gifted to be strong like that, you know. And it was something that I always was. Even when I was in high school, I was benching about 350. Wow.

I was four. In high school. I was squatting five, over five in high school. So that's just always something that's been a part of you. Yes, always something that's been a part of me. Now, what is a, when bodybuilders work out, for the most

part, it's a lot of high reps with weight that's not in the center. How would you do it? I did it the same way, you know. I started out at, you know, like 20 reps, you know, warming up, and then 15 reps, then 12, 10, something like that, on my last heavier set. So you still were doing fairly large number of repetitions? Still doing a fairly large number of repetitions. But much higher weight than a lot of folks were. Yeah, I was like, so when I went up,

I squatted, I went up to like 600. I would do like, you know, 12 to 15 reps with that. And benching, I would go up to like 400. 12 to 15 reps with that. That's a tremendous amount of weight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like it. Yeah. Until you go up against some of these guys that are doing crazy amounts of weight. Now,

you've also, since then, you've had a bunch of surgeries. 13 so far. And what started that off? Well, I kind of hurt my back in high school when I was powerlifting, and then I hurt it again in college when I was playing football, hurt my back and neck. And I did chiropractic for a long time. And then one day in the gym, I hurt it like in 96. I kind of herniated a disc. And I guess it justniated a disc. And

I guess it just got worse over time. So when you herniated that disc, what did you do to treat it? Nothing. I went to chiropractor. I've been doing chiropractic all my life.

So I didn't have surgery or nothing like that when I herniated that disc you know I didn't have surgery or nothing like like that you want to herniate that disc they offered me there I have surgery I told no so the surgery they wanted to do was probably trim the disc down because it was pushing against the nerve mm-hmm yeah I'm an actor me whatever they call it yeah and so 13 of those huh huh? Now 13 surgeries. Eight back, like two or three hip, two or three neck. And did this all, like, happen all at once, where it felt like everything was falling apart? Or was it like you get a surgery, and then you're better for a little while,

and then you hurt something else? Yeah, something like that, yeah. Because the first one was back, the second one was back, and then yeah because the first one was back the second one was back and then i think the third one was neck and then uh back back and hip back back back hip and now what what did you get done to your hips? Did you get your hips replaced? Yeah, yeah, both of them. Oof. And, like, what was I? What year was I at? 14, I think. Yeah, 14.

And how are those now? I just had a hip surgery in January. It's holding up a little bit better now. One kind of went bad. The socket's broke. Oh. And I had to replace both of them. And... They say they only last a certain amount of years, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every night, I had the titanium ones, and the titanium ones are the hardest ones because they're rough, and they're titanium, and they're kind of hard on the body. Oh, yeah. And because of that, you know, and me working out and all this kind of stuff, it kind of just broke the socket. Well, I follow you on Instagram and I watch your workouts and it's it's inspiring that after all this, you still love working out. Yes. You can really tell. I mean, you enjoy it. Still a hobby. Look forward to it every day.

Does it give you any pause at all knowing that you've been through all these surgeries? No. No? You know, when you're doing something that you truly love, enjoy doing, that's what you look forward to doing all the time. So really— Regardless of, you know, how you feel. Of course, I'm still in pain and all that kind of stuff, but— Are you in pain all the time?

Yeah, but as long as I'm doing what I love doing, I'm okay. If you take that away, then I probably won't be okay. So just even sitting here right now, you're in pain? Just a minimum amount. It's nothing major. If you're an athlete, you're in pain all your life. I can remember in high school and college you know i was in pain some days all the time all the time yeah so after a while you kind

of get used to it and doesn't really bother you that's why you know i'm imagining that you have a spectacular tolerance for pain yeah i have a high. I remember when I herniated my disc, I finished my workout. I was squatting 600. I remember like it was yesterday. I was coming up on rep number eight, and all of a sudden, pow. It was a loud gunshot time. You know, I do 600 for like 12, 13 reps all the time. This time I took a couple weeks off, and I thought I was still as strong as I was, you know, when I took the time off, but I wasn't.

I lost a little strength, and that's why that disc snapped on me like that. I heard it, and I felt it, but, you know, the athlete in you is like, you know, let's go on. Let's finish this up. So I finished up. You know, I did leg press and some other exercises. And every time after I finished working out, doing legs, I had a A real bad pain in my back Every single time But it would always go away

In like an hour This day it didn't And I was I just went home Ate, put on my uniform Was headed to work And I'm like Wait a minute

My back is still hurting It's two hours Almost two hours later Something's wrong was headed to work. And I'm like, wait a minute. My back is still hurting. It's almost two hours later. Something's wrong. I ain't going to work today. I'm going to the emergency room. Oh, wow. It was that bad?

Yeah, it was that bad. Yeah. And so he went to the emergency room. They're probably like, what the fuck are you doing? The size of this guy. Yeah, like, we don't see nothing wrong with your back. They probably couldn't get to it.

Well, they did x-ray. They did x-ray and they like, we don't see anything. So that's when I had an MRI a couple days later and found out it was herniated.

So I stayed at home for a couple weeks and sat on the couch and didn't do anything. And two weeks later, I went back to the gym. First exercise was squats. Oh, my God. Did it hurt again? No, no, no.

I was getting ready for a show. So it was okay? Yeah, it was okay. Two weeks after you herniated your disc, you're doing squats again? Yeah. With how much weight? I only did 300. Oh, only 300 yeah

that's the most i could do for 10 reps you know wow 10 to 12 reps so i'm like okay this is good enough you know but you knew that something was wrong yeah yeah yeah i couldn't do 600 no more you know so so after that how long before you got your first surgery? Ten years later. Ten years? Ten years later. So it was just intolerable pain? Like, what was going on? I couldn't walk, like, no more than, like, 25 feet without my leg being on fire. Oh, wow. My feet being on fire.

And a whole lot of pain. Wow. So I knew it's time to get some serious done here now. So what was the first, did they fuse it? Lemonectomy. They shaved it off. Okay, so that was the first one.

Yeah. I was good for a while. I went back to squatting and everything. While you're still Mr. Olympia? No, you know, I retired. I retired in 07. So I had my first surgery in 07. Okay, so this is after you retired.

Yeah. You're not doing too bad, just in a little bit of pain. Yeah. So how does it all go downhill from there? I think maybe the second, about a year or so later, I started having problems again, being in pain again. Same area? Same area. Were you squatting heavy still?

Yeah. 600 pounds still, that kind of stuff? No, because I wasn't competing, so I was probably doing about 400 or 500, somewhere in there. But, you know, it's still kind of heavy. Yeah. And I didn't have the weight I used to have either. You know, I wasn't 300 and some pounds or more. So it was a little bit more difficult.

So it just kind of went bad on me again, and I had to have another surgery. Same kind of surgery? They trim more off of it? and I had to have another surgery. Same kind of surgery? They trim more off of it? Actually, they did what you call like a – I forgot actually what they did. It's been so long ago.

That was back in like 2008, 2009, somewhere in there. They kind of like did a refresher. I think they did trim a little bit more off it though but uh you know it was all pretty much kind of like down here from there and so after that injury in that surgery then how does he how do you wind up with the other 11 surgeries well I think like the first time you herniate a disc, it's like you stack a bunch of cans on top of each other and you snap one out. Well, after a while, the other one's going to start falling out of place too.

And that's kind of what happened. You know, the other disc started just herniating on their own. Of course, I was working out too. Yeah. And I still have one now. You got a herniated disc now? Mm-hmm, yeah. How many discs have you had operated on?

All of them. All of them, every single disc? Every single one. So this one that you have a herniated disc on now, have you already had it operated on before? No, this will be the first time. This is the last one. The last one. Yeah. Wow. And so what do they do with your back? No, this will be the first time. This is the last one.

Yeah. Wow. And so what do they do with your back? They basically fuse everything together now? Yeah. So the whole spine is fused? Yeah. Wow.

Neck and back. How much mobility do you have? I mean, I can still, you know, bend over and tie my shoe and do all that kind of stuff. But your back is one solid piece. Yeah. So there's no, like, articulation of your discs in your spine, your spinal column, nothing. No, nothing like that.

What does that feel like? I mean, I guess it just feels kind of normal after a while. You know, you get used to it. It happens over time time so it's like a gradual thing so it's not it's not all of a sudden so it's just like one day you know you know i i used to be able to just bend over and do all these stretches these crazy stretches well i can't do all that no more yeah i just bend over a little bit you know do a minor stretch now the doctors are they confident that this is the last one I mean you've got them all

fused yeah it's always something though you know yeah yeah when you an athlete and you always working out and always in the gym it's gonna always be something you just accept that yeah exactly that's a you're used to out and always in the gym, there's going to always be something. You just accept that. Yeah, exactly. You're used to it after a while. For a lot of people, that's a hard thing to accept, this idea that you're just going to keep smashing your body. But that's just you. Yeah, exactly.

I've gotten used to it now. It's been like 07, 13 years now. Wow. Now, are you in this wheelchair all the time? No, no. I don't have crutches. It's just that I left them at home. I can walk maybe about from here to that wall unassisted.

But, you know, after being up for so long, my legs get real weak. And is it because of your back? Yeah, because of my back. Is it something that's like cutting off the nerves or something? Yeah, exactly. Wow. Cutting off the nerves, yeah. And is there anything they can do about that?

I mean, you know, maybe one day they'll come out with something that'll help get it stronger. I was thinking about trying the stem cell thing. They said that should help a lot, too, right there. Well, there's a bunch of places that they do it where they could do it with a lot stronger stem cells than they could do in America. Yeah. A place in Columbia does it, and there's a place in Panama that I actually sent my mom. Yeah. Place in Columbia does it, and there's a place in Panama that I actually sent my mom. My mom, they wanted to give her a knee replacement, and doctors, they want to operate right away. And I was like, let me see if we can send you down to Panama.

Let me see if Dr. Reardon, he'd been in here before with Mel Gibson, and he was talking about Mel Gibson's dad. And Mel Gibson's dad was in real bad shape when he was 92. And then now he's 100, and he was talking about Mel Gibson's dad and Mel Gibson's dad was in real bad shape when he was 92 and then now he's 100 and he's fine I mean he's gone back there a bunch of times keeps going back for stem cells yeah long story short my mom was scheduled to get a knee replacement I sent her down to Panama and six months later it started to feel good eight months later no pain at all yeah it it really did a great and then i sent her down a second time it's it's pretty amazing stuff what they can do yeah so that's what that's that's my thing to do next yeah and uh people i've talked to that they uh

think it'll do me a lot of good so is it there's scar tissue around the nerves that's pushing it's the nerves now because if all the discs are gone and everything's fused, what's irritating the nerves? Scar tissue, all that hardware. I got 14 screws, two cages. I got two rods about this long in there too. So it's a lot of hardware, a lot of cages. What do the cages look like?

So it's a cage around your spine? Yeah, yeah. And what's the purpose of that? Hold the discs together. Keep them in place. After a while, they don't want them to come loose, so they put cages around them, keep them together. So you were like RoboCop in there.

Yeah, pretty much. Wow. So I got that in my neck and back. You have a cage in your neck? Yeah. Uh-huh. You got an x-ray of any of this shit? Yeah, I sure do.

Where is it at? Is it online? I posted it a couple times online, yeah. On your Instagram page? Yeah. See if you can find any of that jamie that's crazy yeah you you're just laughing about it like you're fine with it well you get used to it after but it's is it also that you look at like you're a legitimate legend and so do you look at

it like hey this is the the price that i paid to be a legend yeah i look at it like, hey, I'm still alive and I can still work out every day. I'm still normal, so I'm good. Wow. That's a great, healthy attitude. You're obviously still huge. You're still very strong. Well, I'm not as strong as I used to be. I'm not as big as I used to be either.

I'm only like 250 now. But when you say that, you're judging it on you being a multiple time mr olympia that's not a regular person saying i'm not as big as i used to be like you can't stay that big it's not possible no no no way no way yeah how many years you eat like that no more right i bet it's nice to be able to eat when you want i don't eat half the food i used to eat i can only imagine yeah yeah i only i used to eat. I can only imagine. I used to eat six. I don't eat three now. That's a normal person. Yeah.

You got anything, Jamie? That's going to be hard to find. There it is. Oh my god. That's crazy. That's what a cage looks like? Uh-huh. Yeah. Wow. That stuff's heavy duty. The size of those screws in that picture on the left.

Yeah, they're about three inches long, two to three inches long. Yeah, and they got screws on the end of them, bolts on the end of them. You can see on the end right here, on that one, on the left, those are bolts right there. And all the big screws in between there too Wow yeah that goes all the way up all the way up your whole back yeah so there's no neck to my neck my neck is the same way Wow four three four five and six and so doing this, they've saved your back, but all the hardware is what's fucking with your nerves. Yeah, yeah. All the hardware, yeah, is pinching on the nerves, causing pain and stuff.

And what does the doctor say about that stuff? Ain't nothing they can do about that. It's going to be like that. They say they can take your screws out maybe one day, but it's a major surgery to do that. Yeah. You know, they got to cut me from all the way top to bottom and, you know, take all those out. There's 14 of them. That started from the top all the way down to the bottom.

Would that be possible that if they did that, it would alleviate some of the pinching on your nerves? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Have you thought about it? Yeah. I just went to the doctor and talked to him about it last week. Oh, yeah? What does he say? He said, I got another herniated disc.

Oh, boy. And they need to fix that before they think about taking it off. And where's the one that's herniated, the new one that's herniated? It's up top. See, all the lower ones are already fused. Just the one on the top is the one that's herniated now. Now, is it bulging or is it herniated uh he said herniated so pushing out i i had a bulging disc that i had fixed with something

called regenikine have you ever heard of regenikine no they invented it down in uh germany and uh a lot of uh athletes like kobe bryant and pe Peyton Manning they all went to Germany it's like this blood spinning procedure have you heard of it yeah they do it in America now they have an office in Dallas they have an office in Santa Monica and I went to the one in Santa Monica and they they take your blood out they spin it and they apply some medication to it and then it becomes this yellow serum and then they inject the year the yellow serum directly into the area where the disc is and it alleviates all the inflammation and the disc slowly goes back into place for me within two weeks I had extreme relief

within two weeks and then now there's no no bulging disc at all I went back after I did the full round of treatments, which I think was If I remember correctly five or six different treatments, I went back I got a new MRI and there's no bulge anymore Yeah, that's so like what they do when they do a PRP. Yes. It is like PRP is just more advanced Yeah, it's another level of the injection thing. Did you do the PRP? Yeah, I did all that. Did that help your neck at all? No, it didn't do anything for me. It did my neck and back, actually.

Well, I would wonder what would help you, like stem cells and getting those screws out. Pretty much the only thing that will help me, I think. So all this stuff with your legs, though, that wasn't the case before the screws and before all the... No, no, no. Yeah, I would imagine that's what's going on, man. It's all fused up, right? It doesn't have to be screwed in, right? No, no.

That's why I went to the doctor because they said after about a couple years, everything would be... Fused up? Yeah, fused up and I can take the screws out. So does the doctor want to operate on your neck as well no he just fixed my neck a year ago but the new bulge yeah this is a new bulge in my back now oh it's in your back yes this is my back yeah oh that's why that's that was the result of a cask and i had done uh last week damn dude you You're at a hospital like every couple weeks? No, it

seems like it, though. I was just wanting to get the screws out. It's been a long time and it's still in pain and like I said, it's still pinching me and it's got the nerves being pinched. And I think, you know, my legs are numb

too. My foot's totally numb. Yeah. And I was thinking maybe if I took the screws out, I'd get some of this numbness to go away. Yeah. And I'd get some strength back also. Do you think you're going to wind up doing that?

If possible. One day I would like to. Man, I'm hoping someone hears this that's a specialist that has a solution for you. How many different doctors have you seen? Right now, just one. Just the one doctor? Mm-hmm, just the one. Is that a local guy near you? Yeah, yeah, local guy.

In Fort Worth, Texas. Also, my first surgery, no, no, no, probably like my fourth or fifth one, they operated on me for about 13 hours. They cut me in the front, turned me over on the side, cut me on the side, and then they put me on my back and cut me on my back. Jesus. put me on my back and cut me on my back. Jesus.

And that gave me a lot of problems. That started the immobility thing right there. And what was this surgery? I was good until I did that surgery. What kind of surgery was that? Was it another fusion? Yeah. Why did they have to cut you in so many places? Because they had to fuse so many discs,

put in so many discs. Put in so many screws. And that was in 15, I think. Wow. Yeah, 16. December 15, I remember getting off the plane in Russia. In Russia? Yeah. You got that done in Russia?

No, no. I remember getting off the plane in Russia and I'm like, man, my back is hurting. And I was walking fine to the hotel. The next day, my mobility got worse. And the day after, I was on crushes. And I've been on them ever since. Just so out of nowhere. Out of nowhere, yeah.

And how far out from the surgery was this? The surgery was like the next month. Oh, so this was before the surgery? Yeah, this is before, yeah. Okay, so then they cut you open in the front, the side, the back, and then everything's downhill from there. Yeah, everything went downhill from there. Man, I'm really hoping that somebody listens to this and some doctor hears about this. Well, one thing is you're in Fort Worth.

Dr. Reardon, his office is in Dallas. That's pretty close to you. Yeah, that's real close to me. I'd love to connect you to him and see if there's anything that he could do. Yeah, that would be nice. Because I'm always looking to get better because these crutches are getting on my nerves. I can only imagine. After five years now.

And a guy who is the level of athlete that you were when you were in your prime. That's got to be very – and how old are you now? I just turned 56 two weeks ago. You look great. Well, I'm still working out every day and eating good. Yeah, it would be nice if they could do something to turn this back around. I'd like to get my strength back. Yeah, I guarantee Dr. Reardon could probably help.

I don't want to guarantee, but he's a real expert in stem cells and the benefits of stem cells. Well, maybe I'll give him a call one day. Yeah, I'll connect you two for sure. So what's a normal day like for you these days? Well, I got four kids at home. Five, six, eight, nine. So that keeps you busy. That keeps me extremely busy.

I'm taking them to Burger King every day. And I'm just, you know, riding around with them doing what I do you know if I go to car wash they're with me I go to friends house with them they're with me and most of the time

you're just walking on these crutches yeah I'm always on the crutches. So, yeah, I hang out with them all day now. That's my day. Before, you know, I was on the road every other weekend or every two weeks. Seminars and things like that. Seminars, you know, all that kind of stuff, appearances. But since the virus, I've been hanging with them.

They've become my best friend. Are you enjoying that? Yeah, yeah. There's something that a lot of people found some enjoyment from this, being locked at home. Yeah, it's a lot of fun, yeah. Because it forces you to take time off. Yeah, I got used to it now.

I got lazy. Now I just want to stay home now. Well, there's something nice about being home a lot. I mean, I've only been on the road a couple times since this lockdown. There's a lot of niceness about being home. It's nice. Yeah. And the big thing for me that I found is health.

Like, you feel better because you're not traveling all the time. Exactly. Well, you know, I don't get sick, so. You don't get sick ever? No, no, never. Really? No. Wow. I can remember like two or three days in my life I've been sick. The way you said it was funny. I don't get sick. Like, you're not talking about I don't usually get sick. Like, I don't get sick. No, I don't really get sick. Wow. I don't get colds and flus and all that kind of stuff. I've had like a stomach flu like two or three times in my life.

Wow. And that's about it. But traveling on the road does wear you out though, right? Like get a little run down. You get used to it. Yeah? Yeah, you get used to it. Did you have any strategies to like beat jet lag or anything like that?

I didn't get jet lag after a while. You don't get colds. You didn't get jet lag after a while. You don't get colds. You didn't get jet lag. Yeah, when I first started traveling, I used to get it. Yeah. But after a while, you don't get it anymore. Do you just get used to it? You just get used to it.

So when you would land somewhere, would you just immediately work out? Go to the gym. Yeah, that's the move, right? I get off the plane, go to the gym. That does reset you. Yeah. Yeah, that's my favorite thing to do. I have it set up like after you eat, you brush your teeth.

When I land, I go to the gym. That's what I do. That's what I do. Yeah. That is one way. It sucks. Like you're tired, you're worn out from travel, but if you can force yourself, you feel a lot better. Well, I've made it to where I can sleep on the airplane, and I sleep pretty good.

So by the time I get to where I'm going, you know, I'm all rested up. I'm good to go. Now, when you were competing, were you, I mean, you're eating all these meals a day. Were you drinking a shitload of water, too? Like, how much water are you drinking? Like a shitload of water. Like you said, I was drinking like two or three gallons a day. Two or three gallons a day two or three gallons

the gym I worked at there's no AC and it's a hundred and five hundred ten sometimes oh it's in Fort Worth which is right next to Fort Worth that's hot as fuck and then I worked for the police department I had this vest on all the time

so I was drenched every day after work so I'm always drinking water there so you have to drink a lot of water now you have to but as far as like supplements and nutrition and vitamins and things along those lines you were talking about what you ate but like what other stuff would you take uh i had a nutritionist so he did my whole plan. And some of the stuff I don't even remember that he had me doing. But it was quite a bit of stuff. Was it based on blood work? Do your blood work and then?

Yeah, I did blood work probably like three times a year. And he made sure I got plenty of vitamins and plenty of minerals and other things, you know, because I didn't like vegetables. So he would kind of supplement, you know, vitamins and stuff for that. You didn't eat vegetables at all? At all. Really? No. Some people think you don't need them.

There's a whole— That was me. There's a bunch of people that are on what's called a carnivore diet. Have you heard that? Yeah, that's me. Yeah, there's a bunch of people that don't eat vegetables. They basically mostly eat meat. Yeah, I would eat baked potato and rice.

That was about it. But why is it mostly chicken? Why do bodybuilders mostly eat chicken? Because it's so lean? Lean, yeah. Lean. Chicken breast, you know, it's the leanest you can get pretty much. I also had steak at least once a day also.

Lean steak, you know, like filet mignon. So I'd eat chicken three times a day, turkey also, and steak. Now, when the competition was over and you won, did you pig out? Did you go crazy? I went crazy. Every single time. I started out with Pizza Hut. I'd eat that first.

I had that in the room when I got back. As soon as Pizza Hut was over, I went to McDonald's. I pig out there. and when we got left there i'm with stranger strip club and pig out there big out there now how long would you do this before you get back to work oh just that night you know just one night yeah and then back to the gym on Monday? No, no, no. I took three months off after that. Oh, three months.

Really? Three months with no lifting at all? No lifting, no nothing. I ate what I wanted to eat. I didn't work out. I didn't do cardio. Nothing. Why did you take that much time off?

Because I felt I needed it. Really? Yeah. I was kind of like, you know, recharging the battery. Because I knew once I started back, wasn't going to be no, you know, no non-lifting

kind of stuff. Is it weird to make that transition from this crazy Spartan life of 12 weeks of just hardcore training to boom! Shut it off. No. Three no three months no it was nice after that 12 weeks of hardcore training you're looking for a break i would imagine yeah and you know i had a also you know worked out before that too so i take off see the show's always in September, so it's like October, November, December, nothing.

And then January, start back up. And then when you start back up? Go all the way to September. And when you would start back up, do you start back up full force, hardcore? Start all over. Start all over? Start all over. Wow.

So you just had it down to a science. You knew what to do and when to do it. Yeah, because I hurt myself that one time. Well, I didn't start all over. So you learn from your mistakes. That was when you hurt your back. When you stopped, when you retired for good, was that difficult to do? Is it difficult to change your life?

That's still difficult to do. Still? Yeah. Yeah, I miss working in the police department and competing, both. Yeah, yeah. I miss them tremendously. Just because of the action? Yeah.

Yeah? Mm-hmm. Being, having a purpose. Yeah. Basically. Obviously, this is a crazy time for the police. Oh, yeah. It wasn't like that when I was a police officer? Yeah. Basically. Obviously, this is a crazy time for the police. Oh, yeah. It wasn't like that when I was a police.

Yeah. What was it like? Oh, it was much easier. Well, where you were was probably a more relaxed place? It was some crazy people. Yeah? Yeah. We had a lot of crazy people, actually.

A lot of crazy people. I didn't know people were that crazy. So you joined the force. We started with 300-something thousand when I got there. When I retired, there was about almost 600,000 people. The city grew that big over

15 years. So I worked there over 15 years. Well, we're in the middle of a crazy time when it comes to police and police brutality. Did you see a lot of that shit when you were on the job? No. No? No, we didn't. You didn't have to mistreat people

back then, at least me. And most of the guys I worked with, we were all professional. Everybody had to have a four-year degree. We were all professional. Everybody had to have a four-year degree. The use of force was appropriately applied. So I remember I got in trouble a couple times.

Well, one time I got in trouble. Well, I almost used too much force on the guy. But I was vindicated. All I did was just, you know, bend his arm back, put handcuffs on him. But in the process of doing that, he got a bloody nose and a bloody mouth and arm ripped out of the socket a little bit. But, you know, you just do what you had to do to, you know. Subdue them. Yeah, subdue them, yeah.

So that was the only time that I really got, you know, use of force filed against me. And I got a lot of commendation out of that because I was a writer back in the day. I used to write for the college newspaper. And I was sports editor also. So I was good writer back in the day. I used to write for the college newspaper. And I was sports editor also. So I was good at writing. I could write real good, and I could apply use of force techniques that they taught me in the academy.

So that report that I wrote on that use of force complaint, they used that report to train recruits. Do you think that that's what's wrong with these abusive cops? Do you think it's a lack of training, or do you think it's hiring the wrong people for the job? What do you think it is? Hiring the wrong people for the job. That job is so stressful. I mean, you have to be real confident in your abilities to protect yourself.

And I was very, very confident. I never had to even use my nightstick on anybody. Well, you know, come on. I went to sometimes I would go to work looking for a fight and I was so bored you know and it never happened

nobody never fought me what's the size of you man and then so all the guys that were half my size I would just

run to their fights try to help them out help them out yeah cause them out, yeah. Because nobody would never fight me. I'm like, oh, man. Still? Still? What do you mean still?

You're 300 pounds. Well, that's when I was in my twos. Oh, the 290. Yeah, 215 when I first got there. Oh, okay. 220, 230, 240, 250. Yeah. Now, of course, you know, the heavier I got,

I didn't expect it then. But when I was in my twos, I thought for sure somebody. But I had, like I said, I had 22-inch arms. Right. You know, I had those uniforms that were tailor-made, so my arms stuck out. Do you think that, I mean, there's all this talk now of defunding the police. I keep hearing this about defunding the police. Yeah, I've been hearing that too, but I don't know if I can agree with that. Because you need the police.

You need the police. You need the police. I agree. Yeah. I agree. You can't defund the police. You really—there are people that really need the police. Yeah.

I've never needed it, but I went on a lot of calls yeah well I needed to be there right so I don't know if I don't really agree with that I think they got to get rid of abusive cops that's what they got to do that's what they got to do they got to get rid of the bad apples yeah once you get rid of the bad apples then it's all good. I try to explain to people when I talk about it, I'm like, you got to understand that there's millions of interactions that people have with cops every day. And most of them are positive. Most of them are positive.

If you get 100 people in a room, just 100 random people in the room, what are the odds that one of them is a fucking idiot? It's pretty good, right? Well, that's the same thing with cops. I don't know how many millions of cops there are in this country. I don't know what the number is, but you're going to have a certain amount of cops that should never have that job.

They're bullies. They're mean. They're sociopaths. They're undisciplined. They're abusive. Yeah, they're not built for that job. That job is not for everybody. It takes a strong mind. It takes a strong mind. It takes a lot of heart. And how many cops do you think are dealing with just crippling PTSD every day?

It all depends on where you are, I think. Like New York City? Yeah, like New York, L.A. Detroit? Yeah. Chicago? Chicago, yeah. Places like that, yeah.

I can see it. But I was just reading from a story about Chicago that over one weekend, 25 people were murdered. Yeah. So we had about six, seven a year where I'm from. That's a lot better number. Yeah. They probably had six, seven a day.

Yeah. I mean, 25 in a weekend is just crazy. That's the craziest thing you'll ever hear. Chicago's bad. It's bad. Unimaginable bad. So if you're a cop and you're in an environment like that, you're essentially in a war zone. Kinda.

Yeah. I bet you don't look forward to going to work every day like I did when I worked. Well, now today, I mean, people are so mad at cops that they just want to openly disrespect them and yell at them. But some people know the good cops. Yes. Some people do, but some people use it as an excuse to say that all cops suck. And, you know, that guy that I don't remember his name, that guy that killed George Floyd, that guy is an example of everything that's wrong about police officers. Everything that's wrong.

Everything that's wrong. He'd been doing it a long time. He'd been abusing people for a long time. He had a bunch of complaints against him. 17 complaints is what I heard. Yeah. But yet they kept him on. Kept him on.

Yeah. I don't think you could have more than like two or three where I'm from. That's how it should be. And we don't have unions and all that kind of stuff either. Once they fire you, you out of there. A lot of guys got fired for bad reports. One guy told me he got fired for

not writing enough tickets. That's fucked up. What? That doesn't make any sense to me because what if nobody speeds? They say you have to write X amount of tickets per week. What if everybody follows the rules? That's the first time I ever heard that.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. That's the first time. I'm still kind of reluctant to believe that. I should have asked somebody that was in higher power, you know. When I worked, they always told me, you need to write more tickets. I'm like, okay. So I go out and write a ticket. I'll be done with it.

You know, that's more tickets, you know. That's one more than I had during my last review. But they never say, we're going to fire you. You know, you're going to write. Maybe there's other things as well. Yeah. But is it a different police department you worked for?

Arlington Police Department? No, the guy, the other guy that you were talking about. He worked for the same one. That's why I was – Maybe they were just trying to get rid of him. It had to be. Yeah. It was probably something he did, you know.

Because, you know, a couple guys I worked with, they got in trouble once, and they're like, no more? And you get in trouble again, they fire you. Because they told you no more. They're real strict where I work. I think that's how they have to be. You can't handle 17 complaints. Two or three, and you're out of there. That makes sense.

You are out. Yeah, I mean, it's such a rough job to begin with. Yeah, and I'm from a tourist town also. You know, we got Six Flags, we got Cowboys, we got Rangers. So you have to be

good to the people there. That makes sense. That should be the whole country. You can't be mistreating people. That should be the whole country. You can't be mistreating people. That should be the whole country. I think cops should get paid more money. They should be treated better. They should be trained better. We got paid a lot of money. We was like the top five

in the state. Always. I feel like that's the only way you're going to get really good people for the job. And you have to have a four-year degree. You can't have like two years in a diploma. You can't have 20 years of service in another department and come work there. You have to have a four-year degree.

So they want people educated, respectful, do a good job. That should be the whole country. I totally agree. But you know how many guys would get hired if it was like that not as many not as many but shouldn't that

I mean I just feel like we're at a tipping point in this country I totally agree I mean it's

it's real sad that people you call to help you hurt you yeah and all the time all the time that's a sad sad environment to be in

yeah i mean i feel like defunding is just going to make it worse make it worse yeah and make it make these crime-ridden neighborhoods even more dangerous yeah you need you need police everywhere yeah everywhere and i like said yeah defunding just gonna make it worse you you have to have a lot of resources you have to have a lot of training yes it's a lot of training you have to be training all the time all the time no matter how many years you've been there you have to be trained up all the time yeah that's i couldn't agree more i mean it sounds horrible for people to hear but i think they needed more funding yeah even though the police are fucked up they need more education you need more money more money more training yeah yeah and i feel like they

should be trained the same way the military's trained and that that way they weed out the weak people too yeah weed out the people with the weak minds. Weed out the bullies. Weed out the sociopaths. Yep. But I guess it's just a hard job to get, you know. A not wanted job, I'll say. Yeah, but I think there's also just people in everything, every job there is, there's people that suck at it. Yeah, that's true.

And you're gonna, you can't suck at being a cop. Yeah. You know, you just. You can't, but like I said, it's. A lot of people do. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, it's kind of hard to find good candidates sometimes.

Are you still in touch with all the guys in the force that you worked with? No, all the guys I worked with are retired. All of them did, yeah. Yeah, that was a while ago. See, I started in 1989. So you got to remember, that's, what, 30-something years later. So most of the guys retired. Like, we had 20-year retirement.

They must have really enjoyed having a guy like you as a cop on the force. Yeah, I did a lot of recruiting trips for the police department. So they told me when I won the Olympia, Chief said, you don't have to come work if you don't want to. Really? Yeah. You could just get paid? Yeah. And just lift weights. If I don't come to work, I don't get paid.

Oh, what the fuck is that? I was making a million dollars a year being, you know, Mr. Olympia. So I don't need $45,000 from the police department or $50,000, whatever they was paying me. So sometimes I didn't go to work. Like when I got ready for the Olympia, I didn't go to work. So they just let you take time off? Mm-hmm.

And then after you'd win, you'd come back? I'd go back to work, yeah. Was it weird to go back to work no no yeah i remember but did you ever get pulled up i love that job i enjoy i appreciate you enjoyed that job but was it was every time where you pull people over and like holy shit are you ronnie coleman yep and that's why i quit pulling pulling people over and writing tickets that's why because of that what did they assign you to that after? No, no. I still worked patrol. I just didn't pull people over.

Oh, I see. You know, that's subjective. That's something you want to do. Oh, you make a decision. Yeah, yeah. It's your decision. You know, you can always just answer calls. Right.

There's always a disturbance. There's always an accident. I mean, there's always a fight. Did you ever see the TV show where Steven Seagal was a cop? No, never. I couldn't watch any cop shows without being one. Really? No, because that's what you do.

Right. You don't want to see. It's like something you do all the time. You don't want to do it in your spare time. I understood. You're looking for other stuff to do. Yeah. It was a real funny show.

Yeah. Steven Seagal was working as a real cop for a while. I heard about it. I heard about it. It was the most ridiculous shit you've ever seen in your life. He would pull people over and they're like, are you fucking Steven Seagal? And, you know, it was real, real weird, man. All of a sudden, I mean, he was in Louisiana.

So he adopted. That's where I'm from. he adopted this fake Louisiana accent, like real heavy. Yeah, it's a lot of heavy accents there. But he all of a sudden had one. You can develop it from being around those people. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. But it seemed like he was just adding it. Well, you know, he's a professional, trained actor.

But it was a real cop. He was really pulling people over. The whole thing was so ridiculous. I guess he was bored. I think he was bored. I think he was, you know, in between movies. That job can be pretty exciting. It can be real exciting.

Look at him. I mean, you imagine you're a guy and you're in your house and maybe you're smoking some weed and the cops break down the door and it's fucking Steven Seagal holding you down. Yeah, most of the guys, they're trying to get away, so they're not looking at the guy. I understand, but I mean, why are you getting cuffed? You've got to be looking up going, what the fuck are you doing here, man? I have video of me arresting people on video also. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I would do these videos and maybe training.

And sometimes I would have a guy just follow me the whole shift. And he would film me the whole shift. And I was able to put some of them on tape I had to get approval from the police department Did you put them on YouTube or something? Yeah. Oh so they're out there right now? Yeah out there right now. Did you learn any martial arts or anything from the police department?

Yeah of course. What'd you learn? I mean they just taught you basic stuff how to take people down, pressure points and all that kind of stuff you know so it's probably not a martial art it's just take people down, pressure points and all that kind of stuff. It's probably not a martial art. It's just takedown techniques and stuff like that, pressure points. I would imagine a guy like you just grabbing a hold of someone,

they must have felt like they were made out of pillows. You know what? To be honest with you, I never had to really grab anybody. That's amazing. Nobody ever wanted to fight me. That's one good argument for being a huge person. Yeah. It was real good and real bad.

Bad in the sense that, you know, I missed out on a lot of action. Good in the sense that I missed out on a lot of action. Bad and good at the same time. But you kind of itched for it a little bit. I itched for it every single day. Really? You got to remember, I played football for 15 years. You used to, you know, actually.

Contact. Contact, yeah. So you kind of missed that after a while. You want to engage in a little bit every now and then. But you can't violate rights. Of course. So, you know. Well, that shows amazing restraint that you wanted to do it every day,

but you never did it. Never did it. Yeah. Maybe they sensed that. Maybe once or twice. Maybe once or twice. Yeah. But nothing serious. Nothing serious, you know.

Yeah. I may have, you know, pulled somebody's arm out of socket or dislocated somebody's shoulder or something like that. Just because they probably had weak joints? Yeah, yeah. There you are. They said, well, yeah, they said some stuff. Just imagine this dude walking in your house. See, I got on shorts right there.

Look at the size of you. Oh, my God, you were so big. That's so crazy. I was 315 pounds right there. But it must have been so crazy for people. 2% body fat. That's hilarious. We had our body fat done at the police department.

And the highest I ever got was 3%. And that was with calipers? Yeah, it was calipers. Did you ever do a dunk? When I had the 3.33 was dipped underwater. Wow. It was negative numbers. It was minus 2.

That's so crazy. Minus 2% body fat. That doesn't even make sense. Your arms are so big, it looks like you barely pick your arm up to lift your wrist. They're 23 right there. Almost 24. I just can't imagine. They got shorts right there. Almost 24. Yeah. I just can't imagine. See, they got on shorts right there.

Yeah, there you go. Those are the company-issue shorts, though. And they fit you? Yeah, yeah. Everything was tailor-made. The city has a tailor. So I went to the city tailor for all my clothes and all my vests and everything.

That's hilarious. Yeah. Did you keep any of that stuff? Yeah, I still got it. That should be in like a bodybuilder slash policeman's hall of fame somewhere. You know what? They actually took my badge and put it on display at the station. Oh, yeah?

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, look at the size of you. Does it freak you out when you see yourself that big? No. You're like, wow. No freak you out when you see yourself that big like wow no you don't really see it after you had it for so long but not looking at it now I'm kind of missing it do you oh yeah really oh yeah too bad you can't stay like that forever well I'd imagine a lot I'd imagine a lot of your identity gets tied into that.

Yeah, yeah. You hate getting old, but it happens to everybody. Yeah, well. As far as time is undefeated. It's old for sure, but it's also for you. It's just the amount of destruction, all that hard training is done to your body. Yeah, yeah. All the fun I had in the gym.

I had a lot of fun lifting all that hard training is done to your body. Yeah, yeah. All the fun I had in the gym. I had a lot of fun lifting all that heavy weight. People ask me if I had any regrets. Yeah, I had some regrets. I didn't go heavy enough. Really? That was one time I was squatting at 800. I thought it was going to be heavy because I had deadlifted already. But I was squatting at this time, and I didn't take into effect the gravity of the situation.

You know, when you're pulling from the floor, you know, gravity. When you got it way up here on your shoulder, gravity is way down there, so that's pulling. So when I went down for the first rep, I'm like, is this 800? And I came back up, let me do another one. It's still easy. But I had in my mind two because I had already done two on the deadlift.

And I put it up and I'm like, oh man, I could have did at least three or four more. That bothers you to this day? That bothers me to this day. To this day. But I went to the leg press and did 2,300 pounds on the leg press and did 2,300 pounds on the leg press for eight reps.

How much? 2,300. 2,300. That would crush me now. Eight reps? Eight reps. Yeah. That's on YouTube also. That doesn't even make sense. Yeah. That's a car You had to add it up with a calculator

Yeah, I had to bring out a calculator to add it up Lift so much weight Why would you lift so much weight? Because I could No other reason There it is right there Look at this Yeah

This is so ridiculous Yeah How many times have you done this before? I did that one time. What the fuck is that? That's so crazy, man. That's 2,300 pounds. That is so crazy.

Yeah. I saw a video of a girl trying to use one of those things and her knee bent backwards and snapped. And see, I came all the way back. Well, some people that put that on there, they didn't come that far back, you know. So this is right after the 800-pound squat. You got to remember that. So I'm a little tired.

I'm a little tired. Not real tired. That is insane. Yeah. Back then it was. I couldn't... I can't do. How many reps are you doing?

Eight. I think I did eight. That's very hard to believe. Yeah. It's very hard to believe even looking at it. Look at all those 45s. Yeah. That's like 50 some plates.

50 of them. That is bonkers, man. Yeah. That's bonkers. I bought that machine specifically to do that. Because a regular machine, you couldn't do that. The first time I put it on there, that bar bent. So he had to reinforce the bar so I could do it.

How are your knees right now? My knees are perfect. Because I wrapped up all the time. Wow. Yeah, I wrapped up all the time Wow yeah all the time when I went heavy that's crazy that the knees are okay no problem whatsoever and everything else is all yeah just back and neck yep I miss those days now what kind of steroids were dudes doing back then?

I mean, basic. You know, you got, you know, your tests, D-ball. It's just basic stuff, you know. And back then, you know, because the DA had come in and, you know, was trying to find out what we were all doing, they made us do it legally. So, you know, you had to go to the doctor and get all these prescriptions. And you would get prescriptions for steroids? Yeah.

What kind of steroids would they give you a prescription for? Like any kind of test you needed. They would give growth hormone. They'd give prescriptions because once the DEA came in, they was like, what are y'all doing? What are y'all taking? But when you think, like, the DEA, shouldn't you be out there catching people selling meth? Why are you going after bodybuilders who are also cops? That seems ridiculous. Because they had kids out there that were taking it and committing suicide.

See, I didn't know what that was when I was a kid. They were committing suicide because they were getting depressed from the steroids coming off of it? Coming off of it. Yeah. So they're trying to figure out, you know, what are y'all doing? You know, we got to are y'all doing? We got to get y'all off this stuff. And so that's when you got a doctor that was willing to prescribe everything.

So was this while you were doing Mr. Olympia? Yeah. So all that stuff was above board. It was all legal. Yeah, everything was legal back then. Is that the case now? You know what? That was just when the heat was on, you know.

I don't think they got the heat on the guys now like that now. So the DEA would come to you and you would just say, hey, here's my prescriptions. Yeah. And they would go, all right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. One time, if you didn't have a prescription, they took your stuff. Really? Yeah. So they'd find whatever you had't have a prescription, they took your stuff. Really?

Yeah. So they'd find whatever you had and take it from you. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. How did they know where it was? You told them. Oh, okay.

Because otherwise they'd put you in jail. Yeah, yeah. Then search your house, you know, get a search warrant. So they're like, well, I got this and this and this. Well, I'd imagine you would have to take something to be as big as you were when you were at your peak. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's not really possible to be that big without it. Without it, no.

No. You can't get that big. Another thing you got to have, too, is genetics. Yes. You know, look at the baseball players that have taken stuff. And look at us. Yeah. You know, they can't get that big.

They're not gifted for it. Well, they didn't try either, right? They weren't trying to get that big. Guys like Ken Sago, he got pretty fucking big. They couldn't get that big if they wanted to. Really? Mm-mm. So it's a small percentage of the population that could get that big.

Yeah, exactly. And probably like 1% that could get as big as I got. And I was the only guy. Nobody duplicated that since. And be in that condition. Right. And be healthy. Right.

I don't have any health problems besides the back. The injuries. The injuries, yeah. My liver and my kidneys and my heart it's all good did you while you were doing things did you get uh frequent blood tests every every three to four months and the doctor would go over everything and make sure everything was fine everything's always everything's always good that seems to be the big misconception about steroids is that people think steroids people you. And people think you're taking

like tons of stuff. I wasn't taking tons of stuff. I probably wasn't taking no more than what those baseball players were taking. Just working out more. Lifting more. Working out, lifting more and gifted genetically for it.

Dorian Yates said basically the same thing. It wasn't that he was taking a lot, not compared to a lot of guys. Yeah, exactly, yeah. People think I was taking massive amounts of stuff. If I'd been taking massive amounts of stuff, I don't think I'd still be here. I don't think I'd be as healthy as I am now. Right. Wow, you know.

Besides my back surgery and neck surgery, I'm all good. Like I said, my liver and my kidneys and heart and everything still hold up real good. Now, when you would get off for that three-month period, would you cycle off of everything? No, cold turkey. Cold turkey? Yeah. Really? Cold turkey.

I didn't take anything or nothing. And what did you feel like over those three months? Normal. Really? Normal. It didn't bother me a bit. And what did you feel like over those three months? Normal. Really? Normal. Didn't bother me a bit. So you just, you got just great genetics, man. Craziest ever.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, there's no way you could take all, you know. Cold turkey, I stopped everything. One day, I'd be taking, you know, a bunch of stuff. Next day, nothing. And your body would just feel normal? Body felt normal. Didn't bother me a bit. That's so crazy. Didn't get depressed or nothing you know yeah uh felt normal that's just genetics yeah i still was strong wow i could still you know squat you know i could squat you

know seven eight hundred naturally wow so you basically kept a lot of your gains. Yep. I was still 300 pounds, you know, without taking all that stuff. And so then after three months, then you would slowly ramp back up? Slowly ramp back up, yeah. And all this under doctor supervision? All this under doctor supervision. And all the while, I'm getting my butt work done every three to four months. So a lot of guys, after they're done competing, then they have to get on testosterone replacement therapy because the endocrine system is kind of messed up.

Exactly. Did you have to do that as well? Yeah. Yeah. It seems like that's just a part of the sport, right? Yeah, yeah. It is. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. a part of the sport, right? Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's interesting, though, because, like, for the longest time, these guys were doing these ads in magazines, and they were attributing everything

to some supplement that they were selling or some creatine or some this or that. I mean, all that stuff does something. It helps you out a little bit. But it's not going to get you... It's not going to get you 330 pounds with 3% body fat. No.

No, it's definitely not going to do that. Was that something that you were allowed to talk about while you were competing? Yeah, I mean... Did it come up? Yeah. Yeah. I talked about it. I didn't have no reason to hide it.

People are not stupid. When you got that big. It seemed like there was an era where bodybuilding kind of tried to pretend that they weren't taking that. Yeah, yeah. Because of all those people committing suicide and kids taking all that stuff and doing it the wrong way. Not having it prescribed and all this kind of stuff. Also, the more is better

like marketing bad stuff you know right yeah but there were some guys that would just say well the way to win is to take way more than everybody else yeah and see what your body could tolerate yeah yeah the more you take the better you're gonna be i knew a guy like that yeah and he wound up having a heart attack exactly we used to call him garden hoses because his arms look like garden hoses for veins yeah just these giant veins all over his arms didn't make sense but he was just on everything yeah yeah but he didn't make it to 30 yeah he died before he was 30 some people yeah they do it the wrong way. I didn't start taking anything until I was 30. Really? Yeah. Remember, I was drug-free for a long time.

What? I did everything naturally for a long, long time because I was, like I said, gifted. Right. Yeah. What inspired you? What made you decide when you were 30 that you had to do something? I got tired of getting my ass kicked. In competitions?

Yeah. The highest I would place was like third or something. After a while, you're competitive. You're shit. The other guy's got a competitive advantage on you. So let's make this thing equal. Is this something somebody suggested to you? Yeah.

Yeah. So people in the gym, like, hey, Ronnie. No, one of the competitors suggested that to me. Oh. A guy by the name of Flex Wheeler. Oh, okay. My best friend in the world. That guy was fucking huge.

Huge. Huge. And he taught me everything i know did he really yeah he uh also got me the best nutritionist ever that's how i won my first olympia so is that how most guys find out about steroids from other guys who are competing if you're smart that's the way you would do it somebody that's somebody that Somebody that knows what they're doing and somebody that's successful at it. Not some dumb trainer that thinks they know. Right.

Flex had won major contests and was a real experienced bodybuilder at the time. You know, I'm still new to the sport. Right. I didn't get into it until I was, what, 24. I think he started probably when he was like 16, 17, somewhere in there. I never did that kind of stuff because we didn't have it where I was from. How much of a night and day difference was it once you started taking stuff? As far as the condition, night and day.

Night and day and your ability to work, to put in work? No, no. Oh, the way, the condition of your body? Yeah, the only thing that changed was conditioning. What do you mean by that? My strength didn't go up that much. What do you mean by conditioning? The way you looked?

Yeah, the way I looked. So like leanness. My definition and, you know, leanness and kind of, that's the only thing that really changed. Well, your strength didn't go up that much. My strength didn't go up that much. I was still, I was deadlifting 750 pounds. Wow. You know.

Yeah, well. Because I was, you know, I was still doing powerlifting shows when I was doing bodybuilding. Were you really? Yeah. At the same time? At the same time, yeah. That doing bodybuilding. Were you really? Yeah. At the same time? At the same time, yeah. That's pretty unusual, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, that was something I loved to do. But those powerlifting guys are usually quite a bit fatter. They don't mind having a lot of body fat. The more body fat you have, the stronger you're going to be. Why is that? Because you got more cushion around the muscle. More water around the muscle, more water around the muscle, and all that stuff makes you stronger, gives you more energy.

Really? Especially if you're naturally gifted with strength. So did you ever feel like, was that ever pulling you back, like power lifting? Did you ever think about getting back into that again? Or were you just completely committed to bodybuilding at that time? Yeah, after a while, I kind of just got committed to bodybuilding because I was working full-time in the police department, trying to do powerlifting, trying to do bodybuilding. It was just too much.

And I had all these jobs, too. I would do security at Denny's on Fridays and Saturday nights from 12 to 4. Oh, Jesus. I would work in my apartment complex. That Fridays and Saturday nights from 12 to 4. Oh, Jesus. I would work at my apartment complex. That might be the most dangerous spot in the world. Denny's from 12 to 4 on the weekends. My first fight was at Denny's. Oh, was it really?

Yeah, my first one. The one that I got used to force complex filed against me was at Denny's. Yeah, Denny's can be rough. Late night, drunksunks showing up to eat yep it was a drunk guy that's of course yeah yeah exactly yeah you want to try to resist me yeah who the fuck is sober at denny's at three o'clock in the morning exactly hardly nobody so when you were 30 you started taking steroids and and you won the Olympia for the first time when you were 34. So that's like four years.

Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. But you got to remember the base I had before that. Right. It's base and hard work and also genetics. Yeah. All that together.

It's the perfect storm. Yeah. Do you think as a bodybuilder you really need like the perfect storm of things to be a champion? You do. Yeah, you do. You're not going gonna be it if you don't have it you know it's just like trying to be president of the united states you know only certain people gonna be president of the united states everybody's not gonna make it at that job well it's like when i look at some some mr olympias it's so hard to i'm looking at one, two, three, and four.

I'm like, I don't, I'm not. You have to have an eye for it. You have to be trained, yeah. Because I used to be the same way. I thought everybody looked the same. Yeah, that's how I looked at them. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.

Everybody was just big to me. Huge. Yeah, huge. Yeah, everybody looks preposterous. I thought I could never, ever attain that. But you did. I did, yeah. Not only did you set the gold standard.

Isn't that crazy looking back? It's crazy looking back. You ever wake up and just say, like, what the fuck did I do? Look what I did. Yeah, look what, yeah, yeah. Because when you're doing it, you're always in that mindset of doing it. Yes. You're not enjoying it.

Right. You're just sitting around. You can't sit around and enjoy it. Right. You got to stay focused and dedicated. You got to be always mindful. Yeah. So there's no enjoying all that when you have success like that.

Well, I think that mindset, too, is the only way you become a champion like yourself. Exactly. That just keep going, keep grinding mindset, don't enjoy anything. Yep, yep. You enjoy it later. Yeah. After it's all over with. But there's—

I only enjoy it now. There's such a small handful of Mr. Olympias. I mean, that is the elite of the elite club to be in for bodybuilders. Yeah. I mean, you've got to have an amazing sense of satisfaction. And a lot of guys that win it, win it multiple times. Yeah, why is that? Because it's only an elite number of guys can be Mr. Olympia.

And once you get there, you found the formula. And it takes a while for somebody to come in and knock you off because nobody's found that formula like you have. Eight in a row for me. Eight in a row for Lee Haney. Seven for Arnold. Six for Yates. Cutler, four.

You know, look at all those. How many guys I just named and how many years is that? That's a lot of years, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, what an elite group of human beings. Just me, Lee, and Arnold is 25 years almost. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Three it's 25 years almost. Yeah. That's crazy.

Yeah. Three guys, 25 years. When you say the right formula, it's the right amount of training, the right amount of rest, the right amount of food, the right nutrition, all the above. Yeah. And that's hard to do. Hard to dial it in. It's hard to dial it in. And did you dial it in with the help of a coach? Nutrition a nutritionist i couldn't have done it by myself but what about a coach

like that's the same thing but same thing does the nutritionist maintain your schedule for your workouts as well yeah well i did my own workout schedule so you did that all yourself all myself yeah he did all my other stuff so he did all the food, made sure your body's well-fueled, but all the weightlifting, all that was set up by you. Yeah, that was me. How did you know when it's enough and when it's not enough and when it's too much? Well, you can only do so much.

You can only do what you can do. You know your limitations, and you know what you got to do. So once you figure all this out, that's your formula, and that's what you take from year to year. And that formula is based on your body and how your body performs. Yeah, everybody's body is different. Did you ever have guys coming up to you? I mean, you must have had guys coming up to you saying,

what do I have to do to be like you? All the time. What did you tell them? Have a personal trainer. That's what I had, you know. I wasn't able to do all that on my own. The guy who gave me the free membership to the gym, Brian Dobson, is the guy that taught me all this stuff. He taught me how to pose. He taught me how to pose.

He taught me how to train as a bodybuilder and not a powerlifter. It's two different types of training. He taught me everything I needed to know, and he was kind of like my personal trainer. If he wouldn't have taught me all that stuff, I wouldn't have knew nothing. And so I always tell people people if you want to know something learn somebody that knows all this stuff and that's how you get the right formula was this guy with you throughout your whole career no no just the beginning just to teach you the basics

basics yeah and then from then on it was all you yeah i had to get other trainers and nutritionists. I had some trainers and nutritionists that weren't that good along the way, like a couple. And I finally found the right guy from Flex Wheeler. He turned me on to the guy who helped me win my first Olympia, Chad Nichols. He's the guy that found the right formula for me. And when you had this right formula, how many workouts a day were you doing? One.

Just one? Yeah. Just one long workout? An hour and a half. Hour and a half every day, that's it? Hour, 15 minutes. Really? Yeah. So it was just about the intensity? It was about the intensity. And was there a time where you were working out more than that? Never.

You felt like it was too much? No. You just always had it dialed in? Always had it dialed in. Wow. You know, I had to do two hours of cardio a day. Two hours of cardio? Hour in the morning and hour at night after I got off work.

Wow. Yeah. What kind of shit? Like elliptical or something? I did the stairmaster. I would do the elliptical and the treadmill. You would What kind of shit? Like elliptical or something? I did the Stairmaster. I would do the elliptical and the treadmill. You would run on a treadmill? Well, I ain't going to call it running.

I'm just thinking you're so big. Yes, well, I ain't call it running. What did you do? Just kind of fast walking? Yeah, like two, about three miles an hour. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah, yeah, for an hour. An hour. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah, yeah, for an hour. An hour.

So this is just to burn off the fat. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Goddamn, you must hate cardio now. No, I still do it. You still do it? Yeah. But I would imagine that that would be enough cardio for the rest of your fucking life, two hours a day, every day. Like, oh my God, if I never see another piece of cardio equipment again for the rest of my life.

Well, you get used to it after a while, you know. What do you do now? I can only do, I do bike now. I can walk on the treadmill, but I have to hold on. Hold on to the handles. Yeah. So I don't do it. I just do the bike.

Yeah. Well, listen, man, after this show is over, I'm going to connect you to Dr. Neil Reardon, who is in Dallas. And I really hope that he can help you. It would be great if he could. Yeah, and next time, come in here. I'm never giving up on him. Oh, and I know you're not giving up on anything, man. Guys like you don't give up on anything.

No, no. I'm going to walk again unassisted. I guarantee that. I believe you. If anybody can do it, you can do it. Yeah, exactly. And like I said— If I can't do it, it can't be done.

I want to connect you to him and wish you the best of luck. I appreciate you, brother. Thank you for coming in here, man. I appreciate you inviting me. Oh, I got a new book out. Oh, okay. What is it? It's called Yeah, Buddy.

Yeah, Buddy. That's what I'm saying. That is what you're saying. Get it on Amazon. And my company is Ronnie Coleman Signature Series. That's how I make my living now. I own my own supplement company, RonnieColeman.net. Is that?

And my book is called Yeah, Buddy, one of my favorite sayings. Yeah, Buddy, My Incredible Story. You can get it on Amazon. All right, folks. Go get that book. Go to RonnieColeman.net. RonnieColeman.net. Get some of those supplements.

We got 25, 30 different products. Beautiful. I hope we sell a bunch of them. Thank you. We have been selling a bunch. Sell some more. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.

Thank you for having me on. Ronnie Coleman, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, buddy. That was great.