The Joe Rogan Experience - #1518 - David Choe

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

David Choe is an American painter, muralist, explorer, adventurer, podcaster, graffiti artist and graphic novelist from Los Angeles, CA.

hello david what's up buddy if i leave right now this will be the shortest one you've ever done ever now you don't have to do this i know you're worried you're gonna say some crazy shit and uh you're going to torpedo your life now that you're a cult guru with strawberry blonde hair it's more uh strawberry blonde well it's a home job it's beautiful yourself so It's more, strawberry blonde. Well, it's a home job. It's beautiful. It's a job to do it yourself. So it's more, my therapist would always say, lean into discomfort,

what you don't like. And I hate gingers. So I said, why don't I just become one? I'm like. Your therapist says, lean into discomfort? Yeah.

If there's something that, like, I'm in a men's group also. And they said, and I told them, I said, I'm going to go back on the joe rogan experience after four five six years i don't know when the last time i was here five right i don't know it's been a while and so they go lean into the discomfort start with what you least want to share and And I go, this is me trying to.

They don't know you that well. That's fucking terrible advice for you. So I sit there, I'm driving over here, and I go, okay, start with what I least want to share. I pulled over on Van Nuys Boulevard, and I puked. Really? Yeah, I puked. Wow.

I don't get nervous. I used to have my own podcast. I've talked to you a million times. I just had a visceral response, and I just pulled over on Van Nite. And I think someone took a picture of me, so if you're out there. And I don't get nervous. I'm able to just almost disassociate. It's like whatever and just go into any situation.

And I just felt, you know, and I was like, oh, maybe it was the breakfast I had. I had a hard-boiled egg and chia pudding. That's what I had for breakfast. That's it? That's it. And I pull over and I was like, oh, my God, I'm fucking nervous. I'm just going to puke. Puke.

I look across the street. There's a guy like. And then I get in the car and I'm like. Do I really want to share with Joe that I tried on like four different outfits last night? Do I want to share with him that I got caught yesterday at I was eating's a place called Johnny Pastrami's in West Adams that just opened. It's an old restaurant that just reopened. And I know the guy that runs it, Danny. And he said, you know, there's an outdoor – I only eat in outdoor spots right now.

And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm so scared I'm going to be canceled if I talk to Joe. You're going to be fine. We're going to maneuver our way through this. But then I go, I've been canceled so many times. I kind of like it. It feels good. You haven't been canceled since the age of real canceling, though.

The age of real canceling has been since you were on the podcast last. That's when canceling has kicked up to a new level because now the pylons happen. Before, it was just canceling. Like, you would get in trouble for things. Someone would write an article. You'd be like, oh, my God, what did David do? He's crazy. But now the pylon, the social media and the effectiveness of the pylon has been established.

So now whenever someone, anything happens to someone, all the pylon people. But I like getting canceled. Do you? you enjoy it? Did you see the Michael Jordan documentary? I still haven't seen it. All right. I'm not going to ruin it for you, but it's. I heard it's awesome.

The actual filmmaking is kind of amateurish, but the subject matter is so dynamic that you're in it. And the guy's a full on gambling addict. Yeah. And it's 12 episodes. It could have probably been like four. And the story is the same. It's just this guy didn't give me the best seat on the airplane. This guy overlooked me in high school.

It's like all these slights and he takes it and he uses it as fuel. And so I sit here and I go, I'm driving to Joe Rogan's right now. I'm scared to be canceled. And I sit here and I go go every fucking horrible thing that's happened in my life physical abuse sexual abuse uh verbal abuse spiritual abuse prison getting my career taken away or this or you know anything has always led to bigger and better so I'm like kind of like it you know that's yeah but that's just because you're a real person like you're not you're not full of shit in any way shape or form you might be crazy but but you're a real person like you're not you're not full of shit in any way shape or form

you might be crazy but but you're a lovable crazy and and when people know who you actually are it's like you have these moments where things are uncomfortable and you know and you're confronted with you know bad a bad scene but then you rise above. Thank you. I appreciate that. What is your threshold with receiving compliments? My threshold? Yeah, what's your comfort level? I haven't seen you in a long time. Yeah, it's been a while. Can I give you

five? Sure. Okay. You only look better as you get older. Oh, thank you. You have a beautifully shaped skull. Like, as an artist, as a sculptor, like, I painted you. I don't like the painting anymore.

I think I can do a better one now. It's awesome. It's an awesome painting. I'm like, this guy, like all artists and sculptors out there listening, paint this guy's skull. It's beautiful. You're unbelievably curious

inspirational you give me hope you're funny you're entertaining and you're a leader just talk to all your guys right now like you're leading this charge to Texas right now and

you're a perfectly imperfect unrepeatable miracle of the universe. Wow. That's heavy. You're great, man. Well, that's very sweet of you. I appreciate you. Thank you very much, man.

That's very nice of you. Yeah. I love, you know, I haven't talked to you in a long time, but I told you, I just, I'm sure a lot of people feel this way. You're just on all the time. You're on YouTube or on a podcast or on someone else's podcast so i still i'm like fuck i think about you you're in my you're in my head can i give you a on air gift sure um i was while i was trying on all my outfits last night i

i was like i want to see who joe's talking to so this mic smells like Post Malone. So I was painting last night and I made you this shirt. Oh my goodness. Because you guys got on a little thing. I didn't listen to the whole episode yet because it's four hours, but you were talking about ghosts at the beach. Ghosts on the beach.

So there's ghosts on the beach right there. You made this? Well, I didn't make the... The artwork. You see the ghosts on the front? Yes. It made this? Well, I didn't make the... It's... You see the ghosts on... The artwork. You see the ghosts on the front? Yes! It's fucking awesome! You can wear it, you can give it away. Dude, I'm gonna wear the shit out of this. Thank you very much, man. Yeah.

That's so cool. You're welcome. That's awesome, man. Yeah. Ghosts on the Beach. Yeah, you never see Ghosts on the Beach. All the ghost stories are always at night. It's true, right? Yeah. That was a good point. i felt like i made a good point that was a great point because like everyone i mean if ghosts were real like if they were really scary you'd see them in cool times like at the pool you know in vegas drinking everybody's having fun fucking ghost shows up

freaks everybody out never so um i got all the embarrassing stuff out of the way i think oh no so i was at this outdoor restaurant eating at the corner and not having a full-on panic panic attack but i have a nice beautiful wonderful quiet life now i'm not on the air i don't do podcasts i don't do interviews i'm not like, my life is amazing. Like I completely changed my life since the last time I saw you. And I go, I do want to talk to Joe, but maybe, you know, maybe I'll just talk to you on the phone or go visit you in Texas. Like, do I need to go on the air? Well, I gave you that option. I was like, you don't have to do this.

Right. But I'm a sick person. But you're a fun guy. You're fun. People enjoy listening to you. So I had this sculpture that I made, and it was in my car, and I just brought it out,

and I sat next to it, and I said, I'm just going to prepare a little bit. So I started preparing for the Joe Rogan experience, and I started talking to this sculpture, and I'm looking. I'm like, you know, it was 3 o'clock. There was no one eating there,

and I got caught. I got caught. Caught talking to a you know, it was three o'clock. There was no one eating there. And I got caught. I got caught. Caught talking to a sculpture? I got caught talking to a sculpture. I was talking to this thing I made. And it wasn't a friend, but it was a guy I knew. And he's like, Dave? And he comes over and I'm like, oh, fuck, dude.

And he's like, shame, red face. I'm like, oh, hey. And he's like, are you talking to a thing right now? And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going on this thing tomorrow. I just wanted to prepare a little bit. I'm a little bit nervous. I'm like, oh, hey. And he's like, are you talking to the thing right now? And I was like, oh yeah, I'm going on this thing tomorrow. I just wanted to prepare a little bit. I'm a little bit nervous. I got my nerves. Cause I talked to you what, Thursday? No, I talked to you a few days ago and we talked for a while. And I'm like, this guy is a professional talker. He's a commentator. He's a standup. He has this podcast that goes on for hours and hours thousands

of hours it's an art you're a painter you're a mma artist in in in my world i'm also an mma artist mixed media artist right that's uh the bisexual of painting it's like you use everything everything anything goes so i go this guy is so fucking good at it because i got off the phone with you and i'm like he's so good at talking he's so good at talking he's just it's like it's like when you practice something so much that you don't even know how how good you are at it you know and um even even even your podcast they they go on for a few hours which is against everything everyone's like oh kids they have no attention is against everything. Everyone's like, Oh kids,

they have no attention span. This these days, it's like 10 seconds, 15 seconds. It's fucking tick tocks or Instagram. And here's this guy. He's talking to Post Malone for four hours and, and,

and making it seem just seamless and effortless. And that's because you're a master at it. And I go, I'm a, my confidence level as, as far as this art form is low. I don't talk to people anymore. I mean, I talk to my friends, but I don't talk as storytelling or entertainment. My memory's shot to shit. I can't, I watched three seasons of Ozark and I can't even tell you anyone's name. I go, there's Jason Bateman and there's the kid

and the kid with the drone. And I don't know the wife. I don't know anyone's names. I can't even tell you anyone's name. I go, there's Jason Bateman and there's the kid and the kid with the drone. And I don't know the wife. I don't know anyone's names. I can't recall anything. And you have all these scientists that are brilliant. You have comedians and everyone's like quick witted and they're fast. And I go, I'm dim witted. I'm like a human soft serve.

I'm like, I can't. You're comparing yourself to the other people you gotta let that go right now well you are who you are the other people can't do what you do um that's true yeah your abstract way of thinking like the way you are as a person you're so freely yourself that's what allows you to create such amazing art like you just you're free some people can't be themselves. They're not good at it. You're really good at being David Cho.

Thank you. You're really good at it. I'm horrible at taking compliments, by the way. It's uncomfortable for everybody, I think, unless you're a real creative. You did it great right now. You're fucking awesome. Just hung in there. That was good.

Could I have done more? Could I have given you like... No, we're good. We're good. You want have done more? Could I have given you like – No, we're good. We're good. You want to hear something funny? Okay. So the reason why I kind of did that was I wake up every morning wracked with anxiety and nerves, and it starts immediately. You're a piece of shit.

You're no good. People don't like you, this and that. And then like what did I say when you showed me my painting from 2018? I immediately have to self-deprecate. That's not that good. I could do a better one. So I talk to my therapist about it. And I say, I don't have a high self-opinion of myself.

And they go, well, an average human living in society today from morning till night will say thousands of horrible things about themselves. Like thousands. Like I'm not good enough. I'm fat. I'm ugly. This and that. And for you to say just a few nice things, I'm like, what is this? Some fucking Stuart Smalley shit?

And I'm good enough. And they go, see, you did it again. You just went right into it like why can't you say you're a good painter you know you're a good painter why can't you say you're and so they go give me five right now five what say five fucking things about yourself that that and i i couldn't give them one i couldn't give them one and and they're like don't you think that's has that always been the case i think so i think it's uh to go into that kind of self-hatred is i could sit here and say it's a korean thing k-rage but it's k-rage they said you know take a stick of deodorant go home tonight

and write i am enough on your on your mirror so you see it every morning and I go I'm not doing that that's so stupid that's fucking retarded I'm not doing that they go you're paying us you're here just do it alright fine I'll do it I go and I write I am I misspell it E-N-U-F-F

I am enough and then I go next week and they go so how's it going you know brushing your teeth you look at I'm enough. And then I go next week and they go, so how's it going? You know, brushing your teeth, you look at, I'm enough. I can't see it. They're like, what kind of deodorant did you use? You know, the clear invisible one. No, get the thick, white, chunky, whatever. Yeah,

Old Spice and you're a fucking graffiti artist, right? So, okay. And I said, I can do it, but i don't believe it because i can sit here and tell you the amount of times in my life that i wasn't enough like i can sit here and go through many many stories of women dumping me for richer better looking more famous better this better that i can tell you of

jobs i didn't get so i'm not enough and i'm not you know so and it's this struggle it's this burning fucking like the michael jordan shit like i gotta fucking i'm not i'm not at war i'm not you can't fucking cancel me i've already canceled myself how are you gonna cancel someone who's already canceled there's nothing you're gonna to cancel someone who's already canceled? There's nothing you're going to say. There's nothing you're going to fucking do that's going to outweigh anything I've already said to myself. That guy sucks. He's ugly.

He's fat. He's full of shit. I've already said that. You know? Do you think that fuels your art? Do you think there's a benefit? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Absolutely. But, you know know there's been that there's been that debate forever how do you create great art i'm not talking about good art but like the transcendent art the art that like is you remember it you're it'll live on for generations and it's like oh it's like the picasso Picasso and Van Gogh and all the comedians that fucking hate their... It wasn't a debate for me. When I look at the art that I enjoy, the comedy that I like, the music that I like, you must fucking suffer. You must suffer.

You have to suffer. Comfort is the killer of creativity. That's what I used to suffer. Comfort is the killer of creativity. That's what I used to say. And, you know, I'm saying it now, but I'd be in a room ranting this. Comfort is the killer of creativity. You got to fucking. It's the killer of everything, man. But I'm rich as fuck.

Yeah. I'm very comfortable. But you're comfortable financially, but that's how you keep sharp. You keep sharp by not being comfortable in other ways. So I sit there and I'm going off on this rant. I'm like in a fucking echo chamber. They're like, how long have you been telling the story for my whole life?

I've believed it's not a debate for me. Right. For do you, do you know great artists that are comfortable and they're happy and they're like, they have loving families and there's always something. There's always something. Right.

I think you can have a balance, but you have to have this thing right whatever that thing is there's got to be some sort of a struggle and and that was never a debate for me i go there has to be that struggle and they go but what if you take it away like what if you chose happiness over great art what if you chose and they go dave for someone who's rebelled and like made your own rules and done everything your own way, it's so weird that you just kind of accept this. They go, can, like what you just said, can great transcendent next level art be created without that thing, without that edge, with you pursuing joy and peace and love in your life? And I go, you know what? Never tried it. I never tried it. Well, why haven't you tried it? What'd you just say? I don't know. F E P S H

fear, ego, pride, shame, humiliation. That's why you never tried it. right fuck you know and i go you know what i'll try it and i'm today i'm the happiest i've ever been you know like i i think i might be a little bit sick because i'm sitting here because i'm like why why would i risk how awesome my life is right why do you keep saying that what why do you think that you're gonna risk you're you're a fun guy to talk to we're gonna have fun we're definitely but you associate public speaking and podcasts with causing trouble because you were so but people don't know your podcast was legendary jamie for being so ridiculous jamie you're moving you guys are moving to texas right yeah will there be any vacation or break between... Yeah, a little.

It's small, but like... I associate... I guess because I tell myself a story. I know a lot of podcasters. I know a lot of comedians. And they don't...

Oh, okay. You know what? Fuck that. Forget... I'll use I statements. I had a podcast and as buck wild Podcasts

Listen to your podcast. Sometimes I'll go goddamn Dave Holy shit, and you saying that right now I get a hit right now. There's a dopamine charge I'm like Joe the great Joe Rogan is telling me my show is buck wild. Well, it's like you. Even the way you describe your own anxiety and self-hatred, it's like there's a freedom to your expression that you would talk about on the podcast. You would say the most embarrassing, humiliating shit, and you would say it freely and openly and then discuss why it's embarrassing and why it's humiliating and what you did wrong and what was fucked up about it

and what you were thinking while you were doing it, how you knew it was fucked up. It was like riveting, man. I remember I was parked in my car once, and you and us, I forget what you guys were talking about, but I was like, Jesus Christ, I have to see how this plays out. So I'm sitting there. I didn't get out of my car for like five minutes just waiting for this conversation to play out. Wow.

Thank you. I mean, I don't even know where you would even listen to it. I have a strong support system of friends and family that care about me. And when I went off the rails and completely lost my mind, they took it off the air, which I went crazy. Like, I don't even. Well, this was back when it was on there. I'm sure it's like on the dark web somewhere. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Well, we were talking the other day about how you kept recording it and you didn't release any of them. I never stopped. I know. But what I said is what you should do is, because you were talking about doing it again and you're like, should I do it again? Like, what the fuck? My life is so good right now.

Should I do it again? This is why I'll tell you what I said over the phone and I'll say it to you in person. You should do it if you want to. And the reason why you should do it if you want to is because the world needs more wild people. The world needs more wild people. People are goddamn scared right now, David. They're scared.

There's a bunch of people out there that are terrified to be free. They're terrified to express themselves because they're so worried about being attacked. And that self-limiting and self-censoring is one of the real problems with social media censorship. It's not just that you're censoring people for opinions you don't agree with, but it causes other people to self-censor because they're afraid of being canceled.

I can't control myself. Of course you can. You're an artist. And this is a fucking, like, I went on Stern. That was live. Yeah. This isn't live? No. Okay, but you. That was live. Yeah. This isn't live? No.

Okay. But you used to be live. Yeah. It's a fucking high wire act. The high wire. I don't know. The live thing is a high wire act. I'm a severe, like, codependent, like, person.

Like, when I go on the Joe Rogan show, like, I feel like an absolute failure when I leave here if I'm like, I didn't make Joe laugh. I didn't entertain him. You already made me laugh. We can stop it right now. No, but I'm saying, so at that time, we're going back five, six, seven years, I felt I need to one-up myself every time.

Like, man, Joe just said, fuck, man, you went to a crazy place with Asa. So I was like, I took my, you ever, do you have a lot of, I know we were talking about Alex Gray, but you have a lot of painters on here? I've had painters on here. I wouldn't say you ever, do you have a lot of, I know we were talking about Alex Gray, but you have a lot of painters on here? I've had painters on here. I wouldn't say a lot, but. They're horrible speakers.

They're not, they live up here. Yeah. So they have a very hard time verbalizing, like, and I get there sometimes. Well, Alex is, he's one of my favorites to have on and to talk to, but he's just so deeply embedded in the spirit world. Right. He's got like two feet on earth and the rest of his body is in this dimension of spirits. He's an anomaly, but usually artistic types, painters, artists, they have a very difficult time speaking, which is why they paint.

Right. They're internalizing everything. And I got bored of painting in the same way that when i went to go to the to the you know i'm gonna kind of do a weird flex right now but i went to the picasso museum in spain and they have the the all his art displayed by decade here's his art from zero to ten ten to twenty if you look at the art that he did by the time he was 15 as an artist that he's bored he knows how to paint whatever like all realistic stuff and then you just see him going i'm bored with that let me go cubist let me go blue period let me and then at the end it's just scribbles

right it's just like fuck i i'm trying my hardest to get back to drawing like a kid where I don't give a fuck, you know? And people go, oh, I like this stuff. And for me, I'm like, man, I, people, oh, man, that guy just got lucky. Everything I come in, I come with like a killer attitude, you know? So when I did Howard Stern, when I did your show and I just started, I was like a year and a half. I remember I met with Jason Kaplan, the producer of the Stern Show, and he's like, you know,

we have a channel here at Sirius. And I'm like, hold on, time out. I've been podcasting for fucking one year, and I'm going to be on the Howard net? Like, my head was like exploding. So they offered you a show on their channel? We were talking about it. And I was like getting pumped up, and I was like, I fucking like so they offered you a show on their channel that we were talking about it and i was like getting pumped up and i was like i fucking knew i was awesome at talking i fucking knew this shit and and i go but what what am i what are we doing talking about

relationships i'm talking to a porn star i'm talking to this how do i take it to the next level how do i like yeah when i close my eyes and i hear a podcast i'm gonna interview this interesting person. And can you believe this person? And this shit, and then facts, interesting things, story, weird anecdote. And I go, talking, talking. Fuck! Enough with the fucking talking.

Like, I'm a fucking artist. I'm a fucking artist. Like, I want to bring some shit to this. What does that look like? My guest today is yellow. What? I'm the color blue. What what what are you talking about dave so i'll tell you then you fucking tell me here in person whether this shit should come out or not i feel like i need to get high go for it just keep going i go what is that like for me to meditate close my eyes and be the color blue not think about the color blue but be the exact color blue and my guest today is yellow okay you don't get high right i don't get

high i i'm i i i think you'll see why i don't need i already see it and then i and then i go oh fuck i'll get triggered one day and i'll think of someone who's like uh like my enemy someone who's coming after me i'll be like fuck this guy fuck and i'll read all the comments and shit and it's like dave chose a piece of shit and i'll go i'm gonna become my victimizer right now and the person i'm gonna interview is myself as a kidnap victim what so I gag myself I gag myself and then I become the person who just kidnapped me and I and I start screaming Dave you're a fucking piece of shit cuz you fucking do this and you steal and you rip off people and you're fucking and then it sounds like and and and i and i'm not pretending your head i'm not pretending okay i'm

i'm i'm so you're locked in i'm locked in i'm like my only goal right now is to try to convince this guy to let me go like i'm a kidnap victim right now. Right. And I go, I need to fucking figure out how to like hostage negotiate myself out of this. And then I play this guy who's like, my only job right now is to murder you. I want to fucking kill you right now. And I'm like, my friends come in, open the podcast door. I'm on the floor in the fetal position. And they're like, oh, let's go to dinner. And I'm like, can can you guys you guys want

to hear what i just recorded this should never go out into the world this should never go out and i go hey i'm not gay but what would it be like to just do a podcast with a huge dick in your mouth so i go on amazon i order like a butt plug and i stick it in my mouth and for then three hours for three hours you did a podcast with a butt plug in your mouth two and a half two and a half the whole what did it sound like I'll put you want me to send it to you sure and um but why wouldn't you just I want it after like the first couple of seconds like oh yeah this isn't gonna work hey there's a lot of nuance to butt plugs and the you know like where like where it's going to go.

There's no standard butt plug. I started getting Q tips. It was a huge one. I was getting TMJ. My jaw was hurting. And so I'm listening to this stuff. And my friends are like, at this point, there's no difference between you and the homeless guy on the street. That's talking to himself.

That's having a fight with his boss that fired him 20 years ago. on the street that's talking to himself that's having a fight with his boss that fired him 20 years ago and what's and i go um were you raised religious at all from the time i was like five till i was around seven i kicked it you ever um you ever um see people talk in tongues i've never seen that live but i've seen a lot of videos okay a good time so see you're an adult so you're like this would be a good time as a kid terrifying terrifying right so you've seen it so my mom took me to this church and I mean I, five years old, writhing. I'm like, right.

And I go, Mom, let's get the fuck out of here. And they're like, these people are touched by God right now. They're talking directly to God. And I go, oh, my God. And it stayed with me. talking directly to God. And I go, Oh my God. Like, and it stayed with me, you know, I start teaching, um, autistic children when I used to live in San Jose art, you know, I, I tried to, uh, um, help, you know, give back to the community. And, and my friend, uh, said, can you start teaching this kid, Joseph? And then I led to a network of like all these autistic children

that needed, uh, art lessons so i i meet this kid steven and he can't put a sentence together hi dave like oh hey come on let's paint today fearless and we go outside on my deck and we look at the san jose skyline right photographic memory photograph like not to scale like everything's off proportion looks very like i come back okay okay steven let's paint he starts drawing buildings and i'm like fuck and like this like not looking just like and like a like some kind of weird month and i go this fucking guy that can't put a sentence together is a genius. He has a photographic, he's, something in his brain is tapped into something that I'm not tapped into.

And now some words are coming out of his mouth that sound like that fucking tongues kind of stuff. You ever see that Jay-Z documentary where they show him like he never writes anything down. Like it's all in his head. Yeah, I've heard that. And he does like a weird mumbling he's like but it sounds like it sounds like that

so I go I need to do a podcast about that so I go in the room and I go right now as someone who's never spoken in tongues or not hooked into whatever Jay-Z's hooked into and whatever my friend Steven, I'm going to talk.

That one went on for six hours. Six hours of me creating an alien fucking language, trying to talk directly to God. And that one, 100%, my friends go, you cannot put this out. You have a fucking butt plug in your mouth. You're talking in tongues to God. You're kidnapping yourself. Hold on. These aren't all the same episode, right? No, no. The many different. But the butt plug, you didn't talk tongues with the butt plug in your mouth. You're talking in tongues to God. You're kidnapping yourself and all that These aren't all the same episode. No, no the many different but the butt plug you didn't talk tongues the butt plug, right? This is that it sounds very similar those two episodes

But the talking tongue so you there was no real words. You just sat down and just this is what the plug one sounds like How many hours does it go for I don't understand why you wouldn't have stopped after the first few seconds. That's a hell of a butt plug. Like a water bottle, an 8-ounce... What is it? 8 ounces? 16 ounces. Yeah, 8 ounces would be not that big a deal.

I get it. So the language thing that you did, did you talk any English or just get in there and My goal was, don't try to, I want this to sound like complete gibberish. Right. So from the moment you started, there was no like, hello, I'm going to try something right now. No, no, no. You know who did that, man? It was was real weird McKenna used to do that Terrence McKenna used to

He used to do it. I think he did it under the influence of psychedelics. He would talk in like these weird crazy fake words What is that called? There's a there's a, not just speaking in tongues. Glossolalia? Gibberish? Is that it? Oh, a scat? It's called glossolalia. Yeah.

Oh, is this McKenna? Yeah, play this just so you can listen to some of this. Seems to be of language. Sometimes it's fine. It's language-like activity. Because he talks about it. Oh, he talks about it. And it's a very interesting thing. Well, I've heard him do it in, there was a song.

He did a thing with... You want to try it with me right now? Sure. What do you want to do? Don't use any words that sound like the English language. Just close your eyes and try to think. Why do I have to close my eyes? Just to like, you don language. Just close your eyes and try to think. Why do I have to close my eyes?

You don't have to close your eyes. Sounds fake. See? We need time. You need time. Need time to work on that. But I would bet. But does anyone need to hear that?

I was just joking around about it. Was it the Post Malone thing where I was saying I think that aliens would be so good at language, they would be able to talk to us in a language and we would understand it. That they would be able to figure out sound to the point where sound could – they could embed information in sound with their super complicated language to the point where they could talk to you they could embed Information in sound with their super complicated language and to the point where they could talk to you And you don't have to understand their language. You don't know by now Well, what do I know you're an alien? Like the mountain you you don't think there's any part of you that your fascination with it that you might be like a sleeper cell

That no, I'm serious like whater cell? No, I'm serious. Like, what? Come on. I've heard all this like simulation theory. What are the chances that this man with this beautifully shaped skull is born on planet Earth? And whatever, there's probably some kind of block that's... And then you become this person and you use the human voice to connect with sports, science, comedy. And then you amass an audience of hundreds of millions of people. And I go, this fucker's an alien.

No. There's no way you're an alien? No. I think you're an alien. I'm a moron. Listen to me. Trust me. I just do things a lot. That's no way you're an alien? No. I think you're an alien. I'm a moron. Listen to me. Trust me. I just do things a lot.

That's what I do. I just do things until I get good at them. I will- Start the church, man. I'll fucking join. Cho Rogan. I don't have any talent at anything. See?

You're doing it right now. Other than working hard and getting obsessed with things. That's my number one talent. You're extremely talented. Well, I had physical talent when I was when I was started doing Taekwondo I had physical advantages that I recognized very early they're real advantages like some people just have extra speed they have extra power they have things that their body can do that's not it's not warranted by the amount of effort they put into it there's there's that But outside of that, everything has just been being obsessed with things. And that's a human characteristic.

That's not an alien characteristic. And a lot of it is like we have our own struggles, right? Like your struggle is you tell yourself you're not good. I don't tell myself I'm not good, but I'm never fully satisfied with anything. Like anything that I do personally, whether it's the way I behave or the things that I write or perform or podcast or a stand-up comedy special. So you do the same shit I just did.

Yeah, but I don't hate myself, but I'm never happy. I don't hate myself, but I'm never happy. I get to a point where I go, all right, I did my best. I know I put in the effort. I know I researched it. So that's what makes you inhuman because most humans do hate themselves. Well, what it is is that— You alien motherfucker.

Because of the fact that I'm obsessed with doing better at things, I put the work in. And from my own personal experience, when I have had moments of self-hating, it's not like I've just never had any self-hating. It was mostly because I didn't put the work in. You spend a lot of time with this guy. Have you ever seen him do weird bathroom rituals or anything that would be non-human? There's nothing non-human about me, man. Maybe you're a fucking alien too, Jamie.

Jamie's way more of an alien than me. Jamie reads my mind 100%. Wow. I'm about to say something and Jamie will just go and he'll type it up. Did you know Chester from Linkin Park? I did not I met him once but I did not know him. So I know Joe Hahn in his band the DJ guy so I

went to his house once and he played I don't know what you call them scratch tracks or something and The way I know that they make music is they all live in different cities so they just like the guitar player will make something and then send it to like Mike Shinoda and and Joe played me an entire album where Chester just sings over every track gibberish oh wow and it sounded better than any of their music that I've ever heard and it was like because he's just trying to get the and it was like scat. I don't know what you call it. Do you know the Black Keys?

I've heard their music. I don't know them. Dan Auerbach, the singer. He told me he just makes up words. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. Shoo-bee-doo-wah. Yeah, he just like,

first of all, that guy smokes tons of weed. I mean, just constantly high. Right. He's like, I get high and I just come up with lyrics. I just start singing. I start playing just constantly high. Right. He's like, I get high and I just come up with lyrics. I just start singing. I start playing. And I make up words.

Wow. I go, you make up words? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's art. I want it to sound. Fuck, yeah, it's art. So you just said something. Black keys are phenomenal.

These people are paying money to come see me do comedy, so I'm not going to do my true alien tongue version stand-up set. That's something I would have to practice. Right. See, that's the thing like if I'm gonna That it would be too indulgent to do it in front of them without any practice If I knew that there was a way that I could do it that I could distill it down to an entertaining form Right, I would definitely do it. So you've you've done like thousands of these now

Yeah, you've had every single different kind of profession and weird personality sitting here. And I was getting to the point in my podcast where I was getting pretty big guests. And I was finding myself dissatisfied, but unlike you, hating myself and becoming very bored. And I said, I'm not good at speaking because I have blind spots. I stutter. I say like a lot. I say, um,

I talk over people and I'm trying to sort of like wedge my agenda and try to get my point across. And I go, if my consciousness, my soul, who's talking in this mic right now is, what is the interview? We want to learn about ourselves

through another person. We want to learn, you know. And I go, there's a lot of people living inside me. There's a lot of, there's like, I'm like, oh, there's a guy here right now that's fucking puking on Van Nuys Boulevard and there's another guy that's super confident and cocky and so I go, there's a short

bus in my brain and the person driving right now, today, right now, is a confident, confident sober mentally stable but on that bus there's a racist dave there's a sexist dave there's a werewolf dave there's a trans dave there's a uh experimental butt plug dave there's there's many daves and they're it's whatever attention i i want to give them Yeah. And you ever done a psychodrama? Psychodrama? Yeah. What is that?

It's like a therapy tool where you're in a room like this with like five other patients. And I don't know, it could be like up to 10, I guess. And you identify one of the most traumatic moments of your life and that you can't, you're stuck. You can't get past. I can't get past my parents divorcing. I can't get past failing at the national, whatever that moment is.

And so then you keep playing that on a loop in your brain. And no matter what you do in life, that's always still going on. And so it's a tool to rewire your brain. So it's like, okay, you're going to play yourself. How old were you then? 16. Okay, so you're Joe Rogan, 16. Who was there?

My dad was there. My mom was there. My coach. And then so all the other people play the roles of those things. And then you just go through. And then what happened? And then this guy punched me. Pause.

What are you smelling right now? You go around the room. And you just dissect the moment. And you're like, so what did you need at that moment? Well, I needed my dad to fucking step up for me. But did he? No. so in this version have him come in so you're rewriting history and um i go home i've done hundreds of

these now and i go has anyone ever done a psychodrama with themselves right because there's many voices on the 101 over here it's's like, Dave, turn the car around. Who's talking right now? Scared, fucking confident Dave, we need you up on the bus. Come to the front. Okay. It's like, hey, why the fuck did you stick a Nestle Pure Life water bottle in your mouth? Because you wanted to explain to Joe what a butt plug.

Did you need to do that? And then, so I do this for a few hours. Of course, I'm recording. And once again, I'm in a fucking room talking with a hot mic, crying, laughing, screaming to myself. This sounds like an awesome ad for a Patreon page. This is what you do. You take those episodes, you start new ones, and you take those crazy ones and you just put it up only for Patreon members.

And just ask them to please not share it unless people are paying. And then use that money for charity. Probably make a million dollars in a week. I don't know. I'm trying to heal myself. We all are. We all are. What you're saying is mirrored in a lot of people, especially you're different.

I'm a different person all the time. I'm a lot of different people. And some of them have their shit together and those ones guide the other ones away from the fucking rocks in a in a fight flight or free situation what are you because I'm I'll just tell you I could give a master class if you can get out you should get out always if you can fly if, flight is always the best option. I'm a master freezer. You can't freeze. Flight, I'm either flight or fight. Those are one, it's one or two, and you can't take either one of them lightly. Okay. So if you're, if you're flight, you have to know

there's a reason to get out and that reason has to make sense. And you, you have to be able to assess very quickly whether or not this is even going to work. Are you going to get out of here? Is this going to work? Or am I going to have to fight? And if I'm going to have to fight, I should fight now. And I should be only thinking about that. You can't, if you're going to fight, you can never think, maybe I shouldn't be doing this.

Or maybe I should get out. Maybe I should back off. Maybe I should, I don't know, maybe I fucked up. You can't think that. Once you pull the trigger, you've got to let the wolf out of the cage. And if you're going to run, you've got to run. You can't go, Jesus, am I really running? What am I doing?

No, you've just got to go. You've got to get the fuck out of there. You can't worry about your ego. If you can escape, especially violent encounters, if you can escape and your ego is the only thing that gets damaged, congratulations. Your ego can, you can get over that, but physical violence is terrifying. So I need your help then. Okay. Okay. I told you the other day, um, this, this is pre-quarantine, pre-panda. I'm in the car with my dad, and we were going to our favorite Chinese restaurant

in San Gabriel Valley, which, by where we live, should take 15, 20 minutes tops. We live in Los Angeles. I look at the Google Maps, it says an hour and 10 minutes to get there. It's prime LA traffic. My dad had a stroke two years ago, so he's got a kind of gimpy leg.

He sort of drags his foot, so I'm like his Uber driver now. I take him everywhere. And he's like a typical old Korean guy. He doesn't... He likes to eat close to home, no lines, fast, in and out, done. So we get in the car 5.30, 6 on a weekday night.

And it's just traffic bumper to bumper. And he's like, fuck, look at this traffic. And the thing that added to this, which I didn't know, was it was the Academy Awards night. Oh, no. So now it's like we're not moving. And we're sitting at the light and my phone starts blowing up like congratulations like fuck like all caps i go what what's going on i look at my phone my dad's like hey don't look at your phone when you're driving like we're not going

anywhere bro chill the fuck out and parasite the korean film had just won best film like in the American Academy Awards and all my non-white friends are starting to like because Asians all know each other right we kind of do but Congratulations on parasite and I go I had nothing to do with that movie. Well, you get wait a minute You're getting congratulated because it's Korean. Yeah, they're like you must be so proud of your people like you did it, man Let me ask you this is that racist? for them to do that it's Korean? Yeah. They're like, you must be so proud of your people. Like you did it, man. Let me ask you this. Is that racist for them to do that? It seems a little racist. It's a racist congratulatory thing. Like if somebody called me up and congratulated me for something Italians did, I'd be like, what? Beautiful. What the fuck is wrong with you? Beautiful meatball.

I don't even know that guy. So that's what I'm saying. I'm in the car going, I don't even fucking know that guy. Is it all white people that are calling you congratulating you? One Mexican guy, two white guys. It's three people. Three people and the news just hit. First time in history, non-American film wins. It's a big deal.

The Koreans are fucking going crazy in koreatown and and then my mom who's in another car calls me and she's like get that guy over to our house for dinner i want to cook for him and i go mom you fucking think we all know each other you you know that fucking guy you know that guy mom just because I'm a Korean in the entertainment, I don't know all of them. She's like, you know Steven Yoon. He was in Okja. Okja. He knows Bong Joon.

Fuck you, mom. Get the fuck off. Your mom's even more racist. But my dad, he likes that shit. He's very prideful. He's a prideful Korean guy. Except he was born in China. Oh, wow.

So during the war times, he's Korean, but he was born in China. He was on the run. And when I like to fuck with my dad, I grab him by the neck and I go, hey, you Chinese motherfucker. You Ching Chong motherfucker. Is it racist? I don't know. No, I don't think it is.

I grab my dad by the neck. He's one of the most prideful Korean people. And we're not going anywhere. We're sitting at the lights. And I go, fucking did it, man. What? You know, I'm having a connection with my dad. I go, you Ching Chong Chinese motherfucker came to America in the 70s.

He's like, yeah, there was no traffic then. I go, yeah, just let me fucking, let me tell my story. You come here. They try to fucking burn you out of koreatown they burn your fucking shop down they call you chink they call you fucking gook you come here with nothing you're working on an assembly line you're poor you have you raised three boys you have no fucking money and look at us now parasite bitch fucking parasite dave Chang best fucking chef in America Roy Choi

fucking K-pop dominating dominating the fucking Bobby Lee Bobby Lee Steve Lee like we're

kimchi on the menu everywhere now everywhere everywhere you want some kimchi pizza you want some fucking probiotic

probiotic shit up in your gut you know like everywhere this tiny fucking country in korea you know my dad's getting pumped up he's like yeah we fucking did it man and all the texts are still coming yes there's a there's a racist uh what the fuck's the term it's called a perpetual foreigner where it doesn't matter that you i was born in Los Angeles, that you always feel like a foreigner.

Growing up, the message from my parents was, don't piss off the white people. Like, we need to act in a way that's, what's the other one? Model minority. We need to, we can't do anything that, like, upsets them because we might get sent back on the boat. You know, it's like, you need to act in a certain way. You have to dress a certain way. You have to comb your hair hair you have to get a certain kind of job doctor lawyer doctor lawyer and you need to act that fucking way because we don't want to get sent back and so yes yes father yes honorable father so i'm sitting there and i'm feeling myself i'm feeling my race i'm feeling my

dad and i'm like we fucking did did it. Fucking man, everywhere. K-pop, K-food, this tiny fucking country that's been under attack for generations. Korean barbecue. Fucking dominating. Now they'll like us. Now they'll let us into the club. Now, you know, and we haven't moved an inch. We're still sitting in traffic.

And he goes, I would trade all of that for for us to fucking go home right now or beat this traffic all right whatever cut to academy awards to what was that it was the academy awards and then when was the the quarantine two three months later no traffic no traffic i can get to the beach in 15 minutes from my house. It used to take an hour and a half. I go, dad, let's go to the beach. Let's get the fuck out of here. Sitting in the car. And you remember when the quarantine first started?

You saw families walking down, like entire families walking the dog. Everything was closed. Like there was no smog in LA. We fucking drive to the beach. We're almost there at a red light. And there's a guy walking his dog with his kid. And I, and I get a kind of mad dog kind of vibe.

Like he's staring at me and our windows are down and I'm, I don't know. I'm always talking really loud to my dad cause he's hard of hearing. And the light turns green and he just, he like with like disdain and disgust, he just goes like this and pulls his eyes back. He made an Asian face. Yeah, he did the-

He did that to you and your dad. And I can sit here and call tough guy from the, fuck that guy. I got a thick skin and maybe because it was, I was with my dad and I love my dad. And I saw that my dad saw him do that. And I was with my dad, and I love my dad. And I saw that my dad saw him do that, and I was like, fuck, man. I'm like...

And I froze. I froze. I was like, my dad is... Well wise that's wise I mean he's with his fucking kid and I go listen it doesn't matter you never know if you go over and engage some guy in a physical confrontation and he beats you to death there's no comfort in the fact that his kid was there to watch you have to really people are so flippant about engaging in physical violence it's very fucking dangerous it's dangerous for everybody and you never know what someone knows so i snap in those moments i go to rage and like maybe if i was by myself

maybe i would have been more quick- witted and had a snappy comeback. But someone hasn't done that to me. The last time someone did this to me, I was probably in a third world country 15, 20 years ago. And before that, maybe I was in grade school. And as a 44 year old man,

who's in a lot of pain, that's been working on himself to heal. It like hurt me. Well, fuck that guy. Just get away from him. That's the best. You're not going to fix him by beating the shit out of him.

You're not going to change anything. The idea that you're going to punish him for that, it's going to make him hate Asian people more. He's just a fucked up dude. A guy who would do that to you for no reason at all, just sees you and wants to hurt you and make you feel bad, that kind of guy is hurting, man. He's probably been abused his whole life.

It's probably something real wrong with him. He's probably had a fucked up alcoholic dad or something, or some uncle did something to him. That's always something. People that lash out and try to hurt people randomly for no reason are all in pain. You know, it's that old expression, hurt people hurt people. Definitely. And that's true.

And I'm hurt. Yeah. But that's an intelligent thing to do nothing because your pause is wise because you can call it freezing, but you're stuck in an unwinnable situation. If you go over and beat that guy's ass, like that is violence. It's dangerous. You never is violence it's dangerous you never know how it's going to turn out you never know if he has a gun or a knife or fuck i go darker than that i go i go i go darker than that fuck him just beat up his kid in front of him oh jesus i mean

none i don't think he would let you do that then he would really kill you but the the idea is that the best thing to do is get the fuck out of there. So the freezing and trying to figure out what, because it's a real decision. If you run over, but if you get the fuck out of there, then that guy hurts you. And then you feel bad and you never feel like you got him back. But growing up in the 80s, I got that all the time. And I built up a thick skin to that. And I was like, I'm going to go to a new black school.

I'm going to go to an all Mexican school. And they're going to make fun of me. They're going to do that. They're going to go to a new black school. I'm going to go to an all-Mexican school, and they're going to make fun of me. They're going to do that. They're going to call me Mr. Miyagi. So I pull into the beach parking lot, and my dad had just already deleted it. I was like, sorry, Dad. And I'm like, what the fuck am I apologizing? He's like, whatever.

And I'm saying it with my whole chest. I was feeling very braggadocious and proud and it all like deflates and I go Parasite goddess here, and then a virus sends us right our dick shrivel back into our body I'm like oh fuck dude. Well. That is a virus too. Well. Yeah, that guy is a virus Well look it's like like that's that guy caught that from somewhere. Well. It's our leadership They're calling us the company they're calling it the 40 year old man, it's our leadership. But it's not just our leadership. If you're a 40-year-old man and that's who you are, Trump is not going to, no, that guy probably has always been like that, man. But it's like people are inspiring, right?

If you inspire hate, then people become, if they have that in you, it brings it back out. So you think by just him saying that it's a Chinese virus? Dude, when he called it Chinese virus, when he called it Kung Fu and not correcting it, the violence towards Asians. But he didn't call it Kung Flu. If he did, he didn't say it publicly. I don't know if he said that, but there's all those things showing that he crossed it out. China. He says Chinese virus.

Chinese virus. Right. A little kid got stabbed at Sam's's club in texas an asian kid and violence and you know it's asians don't speak up we don't ask for help we fucking store it inside and then we explode so a little kid got stabbed look it up uh no i believe it right so because just because he was asian just because he was Asian. Because of the Chinese flu comment by Trump. They did a thing where they measure it. Every time he calls it Chinese virus, the violence towards Asians goes up in this country.

Really? Yeah. It's fucking crazy. Oh, he did say it. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That's crazy because remember that lady in the White House was saying, I heard someone in your administration called it the Kung Flu. And he was like, remember, he was like, what?

So he was pretending he didn't know what, but he had already said it. Unless that was after that. I think this was after that event. This was after that? So he's like, that's a good name, the Kung Flu. I'm going to use it. And this thing where you're saying is like people call lots of names. There's lots of names, right?

Coronavirus, right? Kung Flu. Yes, Kung Flu. Yeah, he to use it. And this thing where you're saying is like people call lots of names. There's lots of names, right? Coronavirus, right? Kung Flu, yes. Kung Flu, yeah. And he said it a bunch of times. Well, there's been a lot of viruses named after other places like the Spanish Flu, which killed a fucking shitload of people. But if someone shows you the stats and they're like, look, you choosing the words you want right now is causing violence towards Asian people in this country.

And he's like, yeah, fuck them, you know? I don't think he's that insightful. Right. I don't think he's thinking about it. Fuck Trump. Anyone else that's saying that. Right. It's like, no,

but I'm saying like that. Maybe someone needs to say it that way because you saying it that way. And, um, I didn't know that there was a stat that showed that violence against Asian people went up every time he said it. Then it makes that, first of all, it has a name, right? Yes.

Coronavirus, COVID-19, it has a name. To call it anything other than that name, it should either be funny or descriptive. Now, if he calls it the Wuhan virus, that's really technically where it's from. Right. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But the problem is actual racism and actual violence. That's the real problem. Now, the other thing is when you're a leader, that's when things get slippery because then you can't just be a regular person. Because if you're

a leader, you literally can help other people. Maybe he doesn't even realize it, but you really can change the way people think and behave. When a really powerful person like him, the most powerful in the country, arguably, when he says something that prescribes unity, that promotes the idea of companionship and of friendship and of love and of support and camaraderie, literally can change the way people feel. And also if he says something hateful, it'll change the way people feel. Like we move, whether we like it or not. There's so many of us. There's 300 million in this country plus. And we move to inspirational words or angry words. That's you, man.

That's you. You are an inspiration. Like when you say things like that, people listen. You see how people are. We were joking right now, but if you did start a cult, there'd listen you see how people are you if you want it? We were joking right now But if you did start a cult there'd be fucking millions of people signing up tomorrow, and they would listen to you And if you said this is a fucking

Fuck these Chinese people then they'd say we're with Joe. You know so no they were I think the most one would leave me Come on Tupac stay Come on, Tupac. Stay with us, bro. This Kanye one does not want to stand up. It's so ironic. So this is what I need help with. Okay. How fast did I answer the phone when you called me the other day?

It was like a normal phone answer. It's like the first. Weren't we texting first? Texting first, but then when you called me, I'm so thirsty that people assume, right? In our workaholic culture, people assume that you must be really busy. I mean, you actually are busy. I'm not busy. I don't have anything going on. Like, when someone calls me, I make it a game now.

Like, here's another thing I don't want to admit to you. Like, I pulled up right here. I was sitting outside for an hour. I was sitting in a, like, I was talking to this homeless guy outside for an hour before I pulled in here and um so when someone calls me now I you know it's cool to let it ring three times I'm like boom I do the same thing I just answer so I don't got anything going on I know I know in our culture it's really cool to be like hey bro what's, what project are you working on? What are you doing? I'm like, nothing. I'm working on myself.

That's what I'm working on. That's really cool. Yeah. So I take my dog. I got a rescue from Costa Rica. I love my dog. And I go on walks with my dog now that are so long that my dog looks at me and is like, dude, when the fuck are we going to go back home? And I'm walking and I'm taking in my neighborhood.

I'm smelling the petunias i literally stopped to smell the roses i go this is my life now i stopped to smell the roses i walk to this underpass where there's like the entire homeless community i um you know i give them snacks clean underwear water i just talk to them and they see me coming they're like oh there's that fucking guy that's gonna talk to us for like six hours again and i'm really busy today, Dave. Sam, don't we got like a one o'clock brunch? And this is my life now.

Not much going on. You got to tell me all this just because you answered the phone quick? No, I'm trying to set you. Well, I'm trying to set up how soft I am. That's not soft. I'm not hard. I don't have. I'm not on it.

I'm not on it. Let me pause you. That's not soft. I'm not hard. I don't have, I'm not on it. Okay. I'm not on it. Let me pause you for a second. Okay. Let me help you out here. First of all, if you just sat there and you weren't busy and just stared at your phone and let it ring three times, you'd be a fucking idiot. But people do that.

People do that. People are idiots. You should record them. Everyone should have like a secret video of your friends staring at the phone, deciding whether or not to talk to you or whether or not to let it ring three times. You see the phone ring and you pick it up right away? Yeah, if I can. You don't do cool guy?

No, I'm not cool guy. Someone calls me, I'm like, what's up? Jamie, first ring? I tell my friends I miss them, I tell them I love them. I'm not cool guy. I answer the phone. I'm thirsty, desperate as fuck guy. Dude, I'll answer that motherfucker. You don't

even think it rang. My game that I play is that. I try to pick it up before it even rings once. It's like, oh shit, this fucker's telepathic. Also, if someone butt dials me, I call them right back. So my point is, I don't got much going on. I'm

working on myself. I'm trying to stop and be present and enjoy things. And I'm having a great day. Beautiful. This happened last week, by the way. Walking back home. I've been gone for like two and a half hour walk. I'm walking back home.

Once again, I'm at a red light. Car pulls up. Window comes down. And I'm just sitting there, and I get that feeling that something's about to happen. And the light turns, you know, on the other crossing light turns, it's about to turn red. And he goes, hey, hey, hey, hey.

And I look over and he goes, go back to where you come from. What do I got? Seven seconds before, you know, like i got a few seconds and i go once again this to go back this is the second incident since the pandemic started and i go i got this i know this one people used to say that to me fuck and like there's there's like if you if you asian people that are born in america go back to where you come from. Bellflower, Whittier, Garden Grove, like, that's, and I froze again. I go, I have this comeback, clap back, whatever.

I have that. And I go, Joe will know what to say. He's a comedian. He's on stage with hecklers. The best thing you'd say to someone like that is stare at him. But he's gone already. Who gives a fuck? Let him go. Like mad dog stare? No. Empty.

Blank. You're a mirror. Doesn't mean anything. Go back to where you come from. That guy's a moron. Again. Like why? Why would he yell out at you? You're not in an argument with this person. He's a piece of shit. He sees you on the side of the road and just yells out at you. Again, guarantee you, that guy was abused. His

life sucks. Go back to where you come from. That's a crazy thing to say to people. And then it's like, what? My mom's pussy? Your mom's pussy? Like, do I go offensive or do I go self-deprecating? It's all bullshit. Everybody is from somewhere else. This is the place. Unless you're fucking Cherokee.

Unless you're Native American. So the best comeback for that is just stare down. Just nothing. This is the place. Unless you're fucking Cherokee. Unless you're Native American. So the best comeback for that is just stare down. Just nothing. Just give him nothing. We didn't argue with the guy. Then he gets out and beats your ass. Again.

He threw my whole fucking day off. I went home. I laid down on my bed and I was like, God damn. That's what he wanted to do, you know. And I go, when was the last time I got that?

High school. High school, some Persian kid said, go back to do, you know. And I go, when was the last time I got that? High school. High school, some Persian kid said, go back to where you come from. Twice since the pandemic and all from high school on. Always had red lights. Maybe I should just run the red light. Take a lot of right turns. Maybe I should just roll the windows up and just look straight. There's going to be shitheads.

Look, life is an unfair game. It's unfair. It's unfair with your mind. The idea that everybody has the same mind is ridiculous. I know my mind is dog shit compared to Elon Musk's. I've talked to him. Everybody has different attributes. Everybody has a different environment. Everyone has different family life, genetics, influences, abuse, assaults, different things that have happened to you that have been horrible that you've had to get through.

The loss of loved ones, all these different things. They vary so much from person to person. We have a rough idea of what it means if your mom dies when you're five. We have a rough idea. We have a rough idea of what it means if you got beat up when you were 13 in front of your girlfriend we have a rough idea right we don't know until we experience it and everybody experiences a different fucking hand of cards and then here you find yourself you know whatever age you are in life just still battling demons from your childhood and all fucked up from things that have been happening to you. And you've never had a good path.

Your fucking brain doesn't work that good. You've never had a thing that you do that makes you feel special. When you paint and you get rewarded for that painting and people love it, there's a charge. There's a thing. Some people don't have a thing. They ain't got shit. And that kind of person sees you on the side of them at a red light and

says go back to where you come from and that gets into your head and it fucks you up that's what they want to do they want you to feel what they feel when someone says something hateful one of the reason why it works is because like you feel their hate it's like it comes off of them like you get it on your system And that's one of the ways like men intimidate other men when men are angry and scream at men and get in their face What when they're doing is they're not just puffing their chest out. They're not just signaling that they're aggressive and violent They're getting their hate in you you have to feel it you feel it like a drug Like if someone's mad at you you feel and it's all about how much tolerance you have to feel it. You feel it like a drug. Like if someone's mad at you, you feel, and it's all

about how much tolerance you have to that drug of other people's aggression and anger and resentment and jealousy and all the various toxic emotions that people have. When someone's at you yet, like if you, I'm sure you've dated crazy women, right? And I don't even have to ask. So there's a moment in time when a crazy girl's yelling at you and they're mad at you and like jesus christ you're making me crazy it's getting into me like you're crazy is on me it's like oh i gotta get out of here it's fucking contagious and like a virus it can change the way you feel and if you're in a fucking hive just like a if you're in like a just a hot spot of nasty thinking and behavior,

you grow up in that. Maybe you have abusive family. Maybe your dad beats your mom and your mom beats you and you beat your brother and your brother beats your sister. It's just fucking madness. And then you have neighbors that suck too. And everybody sucks, man.

That's as much of a virus as the flu. It's a, it's a, a mind virus that gets out into the other people that are around you. And you could be real lucky. And you could live in an area of mind nature, a peaceful valley with a beautiful mountain and a creek that goes through it. And that's the community that you're in. You got lucky. You grew up in a wonderful community with fantastic parents and great neighbors. And your aunt, your uncle come over and everybody

Has good times and oh sure there's a little bit of hardship here and there but for the most part people love each other It's a fuck. It's not fair. It's not fair when that guy yells out at you like that, man It's hard to internalize all this in the moment because you are feeling his hate. Well, I'll tell you tell you what happens I go I in the moment because you are feeling his hate. Well, I'll tell you what happens. I go, I become jealous of comedians because when I'm at a comedy show and I see hecklers and I'm like, that guy was so quick with that comeback. Yeah, but let me tell you something. I won't do that in real life.

Oh. I don't do that in real life. Really? No. Some guy cuts you off, you don't have a fast one ready? No. No. But you know what? So I reflect on it when i go home

and i go what did i say the last time this happened and then i start laughing because it was high school a guy said hey why don't you go back to you know we got an argument he goes hey why don't you just go back to where you come from i go home i'm like oh. But it's a learned thing. Years went by. Years went by. The guy was a senior in high school. And I said, I got it. I got it. Complete.

Revenge is the best dish served cold or all that. Like, not for comedy. I see him in class. And I get my balls up and I go, I got it. Completely out of context. Four years later, right? Your mom's pussy. And the guy's like, what the the fuck that's where i come from and i just walked away and i go that that landed so flat like that

not really though because think about it right now we're laughing like it's a slow burn a four a joke delivered four years later even worse even worse a joke delivered four years later? Even worse. Even worse. A joke delivered four years later and talked about 15 years later. See? See, now it's effective. It's just a real slow bomb. It worked. Whenever I see stuff like that,

I go... Because I grew up with it. You know when you're in high school and people go, hey, pick a superpower. Invisibility invisibility or flight right i'm already invisible like being an asian and growing up in the communities that i grew up with i was invisible like i don't even have a voice like you you might find this hard to believe but i never talked growing up i was the kid in the corner and like

girls would form groups and talk about which guy they want to fuck and i I wouldn't even be, they're like, Dave's sitting right there. And they're like, yeah, he's not even, he's not even on the fucking roster. And I'm like, so I go, wait, is this racist? Yeah. But what has it, how can I turn this around? What it did for me, the Asian superpower is if you're not seen and you're not heard and we're seen as non-threatening i can go anywhere i can go anywhere and people open up to me i've been to the congo i've been

to third world countries i've been to every fucking state in in america i might be the most american person like i've been to every fucking state i've hitchhiked from the time I was 15 to every fucking state, every country. And I've talked. And because, would a black guy be able to do that? Would a white guy be able to do that? When people see, oh, that guy's Chinese. He's like Jackie Chan or he's whatever they think. They don't think that I'm going to do anything or say anything, or I'm going to pose any threat.

So they just open up and they say the most, I don't know. Like when I started hitchhiking, people said, no one's going to pick you up. Right. Like 60s, 70s, everyone hitchhiked. And then something weird happened in the 80s. We're like, you're going to get raped, kidnapped, murdered, you know? But I go, I don't think so. I think if I put my thumb out and ask for help, someone's going to give it to me. And with that, I got to

see the world for free. I got to go everywhere. And much like what happened was I would sit shotgun and I'm getting these free rides and two things would happen. Either the driver has a long drive and they want someone to talk to, or they want me to talk to them. And something would happen. Either the driver has a long drive and they want someone to talk to, or they want me to talk to them. And something would happen. And like, I'm in the car right now with a complete stranger, anything could happen. And the first hour is always small talk. How long you been on the road? What would you do? You know, it's all that kind of stuff. Something switches when they know the ride's about, like I'm about to get out or whatever, I'm never going to see this guy again. I'm never going to see this guy again. So now we've been talking about

new sports and weather for an hour. Last 10 minutes, I fucked my sister when I was 12. Whoa. Everything comes out. So I've heard, think about how many rides I've hitchhiked. How old was he?

He was 12? How old was his sister? I don't know. She was eight. I mean, everything. Drugs, inc I don't know eight I mean everything drugs incest you know I killed somebody like murder a guy called murder confessions really I've heard the most insane hold one at a time murder confession I don't know if I shouldn't be telling you definitely should be a guy confessed to me that he was

thinking of raping me when I stayed at his house. Oh Jesus. You stayed at his house. You didn't just hitchhike. You hitchhoused. I was in, uh, I was in the deep South. I was in the deep South. It was like my, I was trying to hitchhike from LA to, to New York city. I was with my friend, Brian, I was trying to hitchhike from LA to, to New York city. I was with my friend, Brian, same thing. No one's going to pick up two,

two fucking dudes. And John Wayne picks us up. Cowboy guy. What are you? 10 gallon hat, you know, damn, you boys look,

you know, hot out there. Get in the car. And he's telling us about shrimp po boys. And, you know, he's just, he works on a, um works on an offshore oil rig,

and it's two weeks on, two weeks off, and it's just two weeks off right now. So he's like, where are you guys headed? And we're like, we're just trying to get to New York. New York? What you want to go there for? A bunch of queers out there. I don't know, we just want to check it out. You guys want to stay at my house tonight?

This guy looks like grandpa. Just cowboy boots, cowboy hat, just big gut. He's a dude. I'm young. I'm 17 or 18 at this time. We get to his house in ...

Fuck. This is what I'm talking about. Tiny town in Louisiana deep south like we get in his house die hard movie collection Rambo movie collection shotguns and lube just

just just the dude just the man's man and he has a and his side in his part-time job is an anesthesiologist that part has, in his part-time job, is an anesthesiologist. Part-time anesthesiologist. Part-time anesthesiologist. And then part-time offshore oil rig. And I'm, you know, this is summertime, deep south, covered with, like, grease and mosquitoes,

living outside on the road, hitchhiking. He's like, you guys want to take a shower? I'm like, fuck yeah. I'm the first one in the shower and and then I come out I got the towel wrapped on he's like he made us like a frozen pizza or something and there's a protest on the television it's a Sanford this is 1993 or 94 there's a protest of something with gay people in San Francisco and they're protesting and he's watching it. I'm like, what? He's like, I'm queer. You never see me out there protesting. And I'm like, oh shit. And then he, and then my friend Brian, who's covered in grease and dirt,

he hasn't showered yet. And I'm like, oh shit. And I started getting my clothes on. And, uh, you know, it's one thing to be gay. And then it's one thing to be picked up by like a, you know. A big gay guy with a cowboy hat who takes you to his house. So and here's the thing. I don't want to discourage people from hitchhiking. This is one weird incident that's happened in like 15 years of hitchhiking. So he's like, hey, Brian, why don't you, it's your turn. Why don't you take a shower? Nah, I'm okay. I'm all right.

You're filthy. Why don't you get in there and take a shower? He's like, nah, nah, I'm all right. I'm okay. And I go, Oh fuck. What do we do? You know, I do a little powwow in the corner. He's like, he's old. We can take him if he tries anything. We're tired. We were fucking so tired. we can take him if he tries anything we're tired we were fucking so tired we're like he looks like he was like falling asleep on his couch and he goes

he's gonna go to sleep soon let's just fucking stay the night it's fucking air conditioned in here and then let's leave first thing in the morning before we wake up okay fuck it let's just do it alright boys I'm gonna turn in like yes so we take the couch and I go let to turn in like, yes. So we, we take the couch and I go, let's sleep in a formation and let's take turns. You stay,

we should have just left. You go, you, you stay up for an hour and then wake me up. I'll stay up for an hour. We'll just, and then we'll leave crack of dawn. You know, um, I had a pocket knife, so I slept like this. I took the knife and I put the thing like this and I slept like that. And I stayed up for the first hour and I see his, him walking around his room and the lights are on. And I'm like, this, this guy is not going to sleep midnight one in the morning.

He's still, I'm like, what the fuck? Why won't this guy go to sleep? Putting his masks on. So I nudged Brian. I go, Hey, it's your turn. I got, I got, I'm going to fucking pass out. Putting his mask on. So I nudge Brian. I go, hey, it's your turn. I got, I'm going to fucking pass out.

He's out cold. I'm like, fuck, dude. Fuck, man. I'm too tired. And I go, okay, I'm just going to stay up the whole night. So I'm up. I'm like, guys are closing. We're going back up again again gripping the knife and then sometime

around 5 30 in the morning or something my eyes are closed but you know when you feel someone so he comes out of his room and he's standing there and i could see and then i oh shit and then i grip the knife and i go this is it this. This is it. It's going to happen right now. And he just leaves. He goes out the door and I go, oh fuck. Like, and then I wake up Brian. I go, Brian, let's get the fuck out of here. He's like, what, what's going on?

He's like, dude, he just left. He's like, okay, I'm going to take a shower then. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, if he went to the store or something, like he's not going to get some duct tape. Yeah, he's not going to be back for a little. I'll jump in and jump. I go, dude, let's just go right now. Like he was, I don't know if he was jerking off or what. Like he was, I had my eyes closed,

but he was standing right there. And he's like, I'll be, I'll be quick. So he runs in, takes a fast shower. We get our clothes on. And like, just as we're walking out, he's like, hey, he's like pulls in. You guys leaving without saying bye? I just went to the market to get some eggs for breakfast and like oh fuck dude so i'm like i have the knife in my hand the whole time i go uh like it's that that uh thing where i i'm a people pleaser you know like i'll even put my own life at risk to

like this guy went to the store and got eggs for me you know like uh yeah sure we'll have some eggs so we go in and the guy starts talking about um his wife and how um he works on this offshore oil rig with like a younger dude it's just two guys running this whole oil rig and the other guy just talks about how much he hates gay people the whole time not knowing that this guy is and and then he just like like like all the other times I've been picked up it starts opening up about how he was married he has a bunch of children and then he figured out he was gay and and then he's like I could see it he knows we're on our way out he's never gonna see us let's just He knows we're on our way out. He's never going to see us.

Let's just fucking let it on. You boys look so cute on the side of the road there last night. And it was like, I was so like, I'm so lonely. I don't get to, you know, you don't know what it's like to be a queer guy in the deep south. And man, when I came out this morning and I saw you guys sleeping together, you guys on the couch, you look so beautiful and perfect. And I'm like, oh, my fucking God, dude.

And then he says, I thought about just, you know, if you guys wouldn't mind if I just touched you a little bit. And I'm like, what the fuck? And, you know, once again, I froze. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, so I said, yeah, we're going to leave now. So we just fucking booked it. And then all of his neighbors were black. Like, he lived, like, in a black neighborhood.

And, like, the houses are on stilts because of the swampland and whatever. And I don't know if he's done this before, but as we ran out, like I heard like the kids laughing and they're like, Oh Tom, they're trying to do it again. Or, and I'm like, Oh fuck. Like this isn't the first time.

Like, and, um, look man, this is looking for hitchhikers. I've hitchhiked all over the world. And that was the only time. Right.

And, and, and, and so I, I highly recommend it. But, um, yeah, what I was saying about being invisible is a lot of times people will do this or say, Kate, come back, go back to where you come from. Cause they're like, this fucker is not going to do anything.

And that's just not the way the world works. You know, like someone was explaining to me the other day that no one ever wins a war. I go, what are you talking about? We come in, we blow shit up and then we take the, it's like, if you look at Germany and Japan, right? It's two countries that are very small. You look at a globe and you look at how small they are. These are two countries that are very tiny that have tried to dominate every country around them and japan has started you know they germany starts every world war right and so you're like oh but we won those wars but we drive their cars now we drive lexus we drive they won in the end and then you think of the soldiers that come home the ptsd the drug addiction the homelessness it's like look at our

country now it's like did did we win like you you won like on's like, look at our country now. It's like, did, did we win? Like you, you won like on the charts, you look at the numbers, we took this town, we did this, we did that. And when you fuck with people, when you hurt someone, it stays with them forever. Like it stays with them for a long time, unless you have tools and different things to like work through those things which i i i've been working on a lot but yeah being oh fuck that's sort of racist that no one really thinks of me as a threat how can i turn that into an advantage i'm gonna travel the entire world i'm gonna train hop i'm gonna hitchhike. Vice gave me, like one of the first Vice shows was Thumbs Up. Gavin McInnes, Shane Smith, those guys I used to, I've been writing and drawing for.

That's how I found out about you. Really? Yeah. I found out about you from, well, from two places. One, from Bourdain. But two, from a video that I watched of you going to the Congo looking for a dinosaur. That was the first thing I ever saw of you. I think that's like, then I talked to Bourdain about you,

and he was like, you got to talk to this guy. You got to meet him. And when I saw your show, I was like, look at this dude. This is crazy. He's looking for a fucking brontosaurus in the middle of the Congo. In 1994, I was living in Israel in a farm called Ramat Hakovish. And it was a kibbutz. And to live on the kibbutz, you have to work. And I was the illegal immigrant there. So I'm trying, I have no money. So I'm making enough working on the farm just to live

on the farm. And at this point, I'm 18 years old. I've been hitchhiking since I was 15. And I've seen the whole world I've hitchhiked through Europe I've hitchhiked through the U.S. back and forth and I'm bored this is in 19 I'm like what you go to the Eiffel Tower you take that same like right where what haven't we done yet we've been it's all mapped out we've been to everywhere we've seen everything we've done everything I'm a I have a heart of an explorer. I want to find new things, you know? And so I'm living on this kibbutz.

Most of the other people there are from Australia and South Africa. And what I love about them is they're so racist that they don't even know they're racist. Like I'm the only Asian guy there. And they're like, Nintendo, Sega Genesis. I'm like, I got a name. And they're like, no, your name's Nintendo. I'm like, okay. And so I'm working illegally in a casino, illegally at a wedding catering place, and then working on this farm. So I have three jobs I'm making like, you know, under the table. And there's a library on the farm of books that have been left behind by past travelers.

And of course, there's an old, from the 70s or 80s, National Geographic catalog. And I start reading about Mokule Mbembe. I don't know if that's how you say it, but it's scientists, National Geographic people have spotted this fucking brontosaur-like thing in the Congo. And it's still there. and the Congo is still, it's the heart of darkness. I got to fucking find this thing. I got to go there.

Like, I was... How old were you at the time? I was 18. You decided you were going to go there? I was like, I have to go there. How old were you when you went? 18 years old. That was...

No, no, and then vice, I'll bring it back to how that turned into vice. But so I get on a plane, tons of lying and manipulating to get the visa because it wasn't open to tourism. It was only open to business. And so I make up this story that I'm a bodyguard to a toothpaste executive. And I work day and night to get a ticket to the Congo. And there's no tickets. It's this airline Aeroflot.

And I'm in Israel, which is close to Africa, but because it's this Russian airline, I get on this flight. It goes to Moscow and then Malta and then like six other African countries, and then it lands in Brazzaville. How long? Like three days almost, and like a shaky airplane, you know?

And, you know, and you know everyone in there is the ones that got to get out right so when they're coming back they're bringing chickens and goats and all kinds of shit on the plane and it smells like shit and i don't know this is pre internet right i i don't have any information on the congo except for i heard that there's a dinosaur there what year 94 94 94. 94, 95. I lost track of time, but it was right after high school. So 18, 19. So you don't have a cell phone either.

No cell phone, nothing. And the second I get off the plane, it smells horrible because there's just burning trash everywhere. And it's hot and it's oppressive. And I go, what the fuck am I doing? Like, why am I here? And everyone there asked me, what are you doing here? They don't speak English. They speak French. I didn't know that they're in the middle of a civil war. Uh, I think the two factions were called the ninjas and the Cobras, like little kids shooting at night. The every third bullet is like a tracer bullet. So it looks like fireworks. I go, what is that?

And they're like, oh, they're just shooting into the air. First breakout of Ebola, malaria, and people go, why did you do that? That's not normal behavior. And I go, the LA riots happened in 1992. I watched normal civilization, normal civilized manners. You know, this is how people are. You go to a store. I saw that crumble overnight. In one night, it went from fuck you, everything that's burned down, that's robbed, pillaged, steal everything. Let's rob, pillage, steal everything. I go, oh, it could happen that fast?

And once again, that same kind of, oh, I think I'm accepted in this country. I think people like me for me. And it's like, no, we don't want you. Get the fuck, go back to where you come from. So I think, you know, and I could go on and on about all the traumas I've experienced in my life. But I hurt people, hurt people. I was in a lot of pain. I was like, I didn't like Korean people. I didn't like myself. I didn't like, I'd experienced a lot of, lot of abuse from black people. And I just wanted to, I didn't know anything. There was no internet. I didn't like,

I felt like an alien. I'm like, I don't belong anywhere. I just, so I would go, everyone goes, don't go to Bosnia. Don't go to the Congo. Don't go to the Gaza strip. And I just, so I would go, everyone goes, don't go to Bosnia. Don't go to the Congo. Don't go to the Gaza Strip. And I'm going to go every fucking place. My life has been very reactionary, right? My life has been like, you don't tell me what to do. You don't tell me how to podcast.

I'm going to stick a butt plug in my, you know, I'm going to do what, you know so I'm in the Congo and it's in a full-blown war there's people being we and everyone's like who are you who is this blonde Asian here like I had my dyed hair dyed then too and they and so I could go and tell a million stories about the Congo but at some point why you were looking for brontosaurus for real, or you just wanted to go to the Congo as well? I know the kids like to say 100%. I've heard you say it too. Yeah. Why not 99% just to leave 1% for down?

99% I was there for the dinosaur. I was there for the dinosaur. Like, like I was so young and dumb and stupid and ignorant where I truly, truly thought I was going to find it. Like I, I, I didn't know enough about like the, everything made sense to me because anyone listening to this right now,

we're talking about a story from 20 years ago, right? I was a stupid kid. I believed in Santa Claus very late, you know, Anyone listening to this right now, we're talking about a story from 20 years ago, right? Right. I was a stupid kid. I believed in Santa Claus very late. You know, like I was a bedwetter. I'm fucked up, man. So when I finally did get to the jungle, I got out of Brazzaville.

I got up and I got to this jungle area called Hueso. Then I believed because the spiders are this big and the frogs are this big. And how big are the frogs? Just everything is, looks insane. The snakes, they got snakes out here this big. Like it was like,

okay, now I believe like every year scientists were finding a new species of something that they thought was gone. And I'm like, okay, the, and it's, and then, and then I, and then I meet the pygmies. And that was, fuck, I don't know what version of the story I should tell because it gets so dark.

I met a German guy named, fuck, I shouldn't say his name. I met a German guy there who was the same age as me. And this is in the city. And then he could tell that I was lost lost i didn't know who this guy was he was being groomed to be like the next big politician in frankfurt or something right and so i didn't i didn't get this until later but he was here as his like sex vacation to fuck as many black he liked black women. So he's going to fuck as many Curb your language, Dave. To have as many intimate relations with women as possible.

Is that better? No. I'm trying to be better for myself. That's what I'm trying to do. The other way was better. You were explaining what it was. It's not a bad thing. That's what he was doing. So I figure out, so he sees me as another young guy. It's not a bad thing. That's what he was doing. So I figure out, so he sees me as another young guy. It's not a bad thing to explain things accurately,

you know? You could use other words though. Yeah, but that's what it is, right? It is what it is, but I, I,

I can, I can come off, I can turn people off when I use that language. I want, who are these people? Um, people that don't like you no no they're people that they want dave no swear dave i came here for g-rated dave and i want my money i'm not trying

to be g-rated i'm just trying to pg-13 dave that's what i was signing up for occasionally the word shit pg-13 they have like rules right you know like two shits. 99%. Okay. So I'm with. You thought there was a real dinosaur in there. And when you got there and you saw the big frogs and the big snakes, you're like, maybe it is. Yeah, maybe it is. And what happens is we go to the last spotting of it. Right? And then I meet.

Is there any evidence at all? Everyone I talk to. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've seen it? Everyone I talk to, oh, yeah. Yeah, we've seen it. There's no like, no, that's crazy. Every fucking person I meet is like, oh, yeah, it's in the last. Is it one of those things where realistically there's not a whole lot of people looking for it anyway? No, but there are scientists that go out there.

And in the meantime, I've never seen anyone murdered before until I got here. Right. I've been through the L.A. riots. I've seen things broken and burned down and guns pointed, but I've never seen anyone hung. I've never seen anyone stoned to death. And it's absolute chaos. I'm seeing people murdered. I'm scared for my life. I got attacked one time.

So I go, I need to find it. Now I have to find this dinosaur. And I also know that there's a chance that I might never go home again. So I write a letter to my parents. They don't know where I am. They think I'm in Israel on this farm. Like I didn't tell anybody. So I wrote my parents this long letter of, I love you guys. I'm about to embark on a journey to find a dinosaur. And I sent it at the airport before I got on the plane to the jungle. I have no money.

I have only one change of clothes. I have fucking blonde hair. And I go into the jungle and we get lost immediately. I'm a fucking city boy. What the hell do I know about the jungle? What do I know about the jungle? Did you have any direction? Nothing.

I just knew what, you know, you know what? When I landed in the jungle, there was a guy that I think I want to say his name is Chris that was a Peace Corps guy. And he was there to help build welds in this Bantu village. And he said, the place what you guys are looking for, he's like, it's a, you're not going to find a dime you know he was like the reasonable one and I go how do I

know if you don't try you know I still believed I still wanted to believe I was willing to risk my life for it so we get I haven't fucking told the story in so long so we get to the jungle and we start walking there's a minor trail and then it

disappears. It's just gone. And I'm like, we're fucking lost in the jungle. We're lost in the jungle. So I'm with this guy that the, the, what we told people, he was here to fuck as many women as possible. But we went with the story of he is the toothpaste executive and i'm his bodyguard that's a fake bullshit story right as we're lost in the jungle he starts to think that story is real hey go fetch me a pineapple i go dude i'm not your he's like you're not a real executive bro like i'm not gonna get and he starts like telling me like like i'm like hey you know that was a fake story right like he's like and and there's no one around. So we get lost for days and he starts to really be like humiliating towards me and right on my nerves. And we had rations. We went in with some crackers and some

like tuna in a can thing. And I go, Hey man, we we're fucking lost i don't know how to survive we need to ration this food out i come he ate it all he ate it all and and and and now like have you ever been in that kind of situation where you're like i'm gonna die here like i'm never gonna like hope is gone like i'm in a thick thick congolese jungle like i don't know how to get out and we've been lost for days like i don't know how to survive i don't fucking know how to like i i this is it you know it's insane and on top of it i have this fucking german asshole who's like talking down to me making fun of me and eating my fucking rations like i would pump all the fucking water and put the the water purification tablets

and be like thanks and i'm like dude what the fuck man like i did all that work so we could share it and so he was just he was a dick and so man and you're stuck in the jungle like that before no dude so we set up a tent we have one tent and so we're we're in close quarters with each other at night the moon is like this fucking big like it's humongous and you hear the entire jungle come alive like fucking monkeys and like things are bumping into the tent at night like huge insects and like and i'm like i'm i'm i'm like i'm gonna die here I'm gonna die here so the few times in my life where I've been in this kind of hopeless situation the only

thing that's gonna get me out of it is if I can control my mind cause I'm like falling into despair and in the day time I'm doing stand up to the trees cause we're just walking in like circles and I'm like hey how you guys doing all tonight so you don't know where you are I don't know where I am I'm talking to the vegetation because we're just walking in like circles and I'm like hey how are you guys doing all tonight you know you don't know where you are I don't know

where I am I'm talking to the vegetation and this guy is riding my last nerve and he's and so I could safely say I lost my mind and so we're down to our last food and he and I and he did it again and i said bro what the fuck did i tell you we got to make this last i'm starving you ate the rations that were supposed that was it and he's like whatever and he's he has a more like dissociated like checked out like what like we'll get out of here somehow and part of i don't know his coping thing was to like talk down to me or whatever and so that night and we're we're lost at this point a week and a half maybe. We haven't, you know, I'm fucking 90 pounds.

I've lost all this weight. I'm going to kill this guy. I'm going to murder him. I'm going to fucking murder him because I don't like people talking shit to me like that. I don't, like I've been a punching bag for this guy for weeks now. And I'm just going to fucking kill him. And if I have to eat him to survive, I guess I'll do that. And so he's out cold. He's got fucking crumbs on his face, tuna fucking juice from the food that was supposed to be shared. And I pick up, I go outside the tent and I pick up,

I pick up a huge rock, like bigger than this. And I go, I'm going to fucking kill this guy. I have officially lost my mind. Like I can't, I'm barely going to survive. I can't do it here with this guy. So he's out and I was fucking looking at his face. And I pick up the rock and I go, just, I don't even have to apply any pressure. If I just drop it, he he's done like he'll be fucking dead and i go oh fuck is there anything left is there any common sense is there any light left in

my uh i gotta fucking kill this guy he has has to go. He has to die. He has to die. He has to fucking die. And then I just, I didn't do it. I'm not a murderer. I can't, like, in the mind. I'll do it. I'll do what? Murder Dave, come to the front.

No one's ever going to know. His family doesn't know he's there. Your family, nobody knows who you are. This guy, Chris, the Peace Corps guy, he's not going to fucking say anything. You can kill him right now. He has a ton of cash that he hasn't been sharing with you. You can get out of here. You can fucking get some of your pride and your ego back. Those fucking guys treating you like a fucking, like, like a Chinese waiter or something.

Do it. No one will ever know. No one will ever fucking find out. You were, you're probably going to die too. You want to die? Like fucking catering to this guy. Just do it.

And I'm sitting at, no, I don't, I don't want to, I don't, I'm not a murderer. And I didn't kill him. I I don't want to. I'm not a murderer. I didn't kill him. I woke up the next day, and I'm just looking at him like,

motherfucker, you don't even know. You don't even know what almost happened last night. We're walking around. Hey, what's that? There's a fucking pygmy up one of those 200, 100-foot trees. He's just sitting there chilling. And I go, what is that? Is that a person?

Waves at us. 200 feet above you. Huge tree. Like, just, I don't know. That's so high. It's so high. Oh, my God. It was so high.

How did you spot him? He was, like, it was shaking a little. From the place he was to get in front of us was seconds like hi it's like this short what's this jungle i mean when you when you're in there do you even see sunlight through it or is it just no it's so dense i mean like yeah there's some cracks but it's just this was also in the national geographic why that the dinosaur would be here is because cameras can't see it because it's such a dense, thick forest. And there's things in there that are like moving and, you know. Dude, your description sounds terrifying.

It's terrifying. Trying to sleep in the tent. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, dude. I'm freaking out over here. So the guy comes up. He's this short. He's like tiny.

He's like, you guys want some honey? What? And this is where my skill as an artist has gotten me out of so many situations, right? Because if you're in jail and you have any kind of skills, singing, dancing, telling jokes, drawing, you're a celebrity. So this guy doesn't speak English. We don't speak whatever language he speaks. So I start drawing stuff like food, you know in the dirt and he's like oh yeah i got you and he and he and he goes and um he brings us some meat that's all charred and i'm like i don't know what that is you know and and i took one bite and it tastes horrible and i'm like i'm

gonna starve to death but I can't eat that. Wow. And so it was like a movie. He's like, come on, come on. We're walking. And, you know, it's us like stumbling machete trying to, he's just like, like we get around a corner, entire village of pygmies. They've never fucking seen an Asian person before. I'm C3PO and they're the Ewoks.

Blonde, they're coming. They're touching my face. They're like, yeah, look at, like, I don't know what the fuck they're saying. Like, the kid keeps doing this thing. Like, uh, I go, what are you saying? There was one older, older guy in the village that I guess spoke a tiny bit of, uh, uh, French. So my,

the German guy can translate. He's like, they're saying you come from the stars. Oh my God. That you're, you're coming from the stars. And I'm like, oh my God,

that's heavy. So I'm like, so I'm like, we're saved. They bring us some honey. They bring us some fruit. And I'm like, oh God,

I'm like just devouring it. They're laughing at us. And you know, it's like the national geographic the women's tits are like down to their ankles and um this fucking guy he's an alien he's an alien i told you 1995 i was uh i was 19 years old yeah 19 years old yeah and and they put that um they put their clothes on for the picture they were all naked when i got in there wow um look at my tivas that's amazing that picture is amazing

so i um now had any of these people seen it did you ever describe it to them oh yeah so i draw the dinosaur i go here's the dinosaur and what what were they saying? They go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's never like, no. It's always like, okay, there's the dinosaur. And they go, let's go. And I go, they go, it's through wetlands like this. There's going to be leeches. There's a disease called bilharzia where there's like snails under like still

moving waters and then second a mammal steps in the water little fucking parasites shoot off the snail like like heat-seeking missiles and they go in your dick hole and then you piss and shit blood till you die and I'm like okay so they're explaining like all the the trek and the way to go find this dinosaur and I'm like

I went I went up until the leeches and then when I came out with the leeches I go alright like this is it you know

I go can you help us get out of the jungle and they're like it took less than a day that's how close we were to like, really? We were probably fucking walking in circles.

So we get out in less than a day. I get, I get back home. I'm 19 years old. I start writing for, uh, for vice. I start drawing pictures for them.

I do comics. I'm writing. And, uh, Oh no, I was writing for a magazine called giant robot. And, uh,

Gavin and Shane would read that magazine and they're like they were ahead of the curve right like when all print magazine right existed they were like we need to go to digital like like they were you know vice has always been free everyone fiends it they go to those magazine shops or wherever and yeah and they're like we need to have online presence the internet was brand new and they said dave that is the fucking and i told you not the pg-13 but that story gets very dark darker than what i said they go will you go back with a camera and a camera crew? And I said, that was one of the most traumatic. I almost died.

I saw people murdered. There was a fucking virus where people were bleeding out of their eyeballs. No. Okay, I'll go. Enough time had passed. It was 10 years later, actually. It wasn't, it was, that was 95. And then it was like eight or 10 years later.

And so that was the one that Vice filmed? They're like, can you go back? So that photo for the Mickey Mouse shirt was from the earlier trip. That was from when I went with the film, like just my camera. So I go back, and how did we even get to this? The dinosaur. The dinosaur. They all see the same dinosaur?

Oh, shit, look at that. There it is. Dude, you're fucking on fire, Jamie. The dinosaur. The dinosaur. They all see the same dinosaur? Have you- Oh, shit. Look at that. There it is. Dude, you're fucking on fire, Jamie. Holy fuck. Yeah. That one number three, number three is bonkers.

What is that? Unless it's a log. Could be a log. So on my second trip back, I met the doctor. There was a doctor that lived in the village close to that river. Look at the track. And he said he'd seen it. Really?

And he's, like, not, you know. I wonder if any, like, real legitimate biologists have looked at those tracks. Maybe they could tell you by the way the footprint. Like, they can kind of tell whether things are fake or real or not based on, like, how, where the weight is distributed. Like, someone who really understands how these animals would walk. I think it would be really hard to fake dinosaur footprints, right?

Because the weight, it would have to have like a... The description I just read in this said it wasn't that big. I shouldn't say not big, but it's like 30 feet, 35 feet. It's pretty big. It's like a big giant elephant size.

Think about how big those fucking alligators were that we were just talking about. Yeah, so it might be a turtle they were seeing. That's what, I don't know what they actually found. A turtle? That's what they're looking through here. Their dicks were so big. Like, when we went to the river to bathe, they were like, okay. They just take their clothes off, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to keep my clothes on.

And I go, they go, what? I go, dude, I have like a normal penis for, like, I'm going to keep my clothes on. And I go, they go, what? I go, dude, I have like a normal penis for, like I'm proportioned correctly. Like your shit is down to your knees. And this was back in the city when I got back to Brazzaville. And they're like, bro, you know why our dicks are so big?

I'm like, why? And there's all these naked kids running around. It's like, because we never wear underwear. And I'm like, what? It's like, see the girl whose tits are down to their stomach never wear a bra it's gravity bro everything just droops i'm like that's why your dicks are so big i'm like i'm still gonna leave my underwear on like this is takes too much time wait you've never you've never been to africa no never been dude i'm begging you i i know you're into the hunting and the bow hunting please like

so when i texted you like it doesn't have to do with anything africa man hunting in africa you mean so when i texted you the other day i saw that the last time i texted you was 2018 i was like dude i'm going to africa i'll see you when i get back that's right yeah and um okay this is the this is yes yeah please tell me this is very heavy this is the this is yes yeah you're telling me this is very heavy so there's uh there's hunter gatherer tribes in like the arctic papua new guinea the amazon africa but very few like they're almost gone there's very very few people that live off the land and i i just whenever the podcast went off the air and I ghosted, I just lost my mind. I hit my rock bottom. And very similar pattern of what I always do when things get rough is I just go to Africa.

I go, it's a weird thing to be like rich or be in a country that's rich or have stuff. And as an adult, someone has to teach you gratitude. Like I hear you say it all the time. I'm thankful. I'm thankful. I'm grateful. I go, but I'm not. I have everything.

And yet I fucking complain like crazy. I'm like, I need to get the fuck out of here. I need to go someplace where I can learn humility. I can learn to be grateful. So I get to, I'm traumatized now by the Congo I didn't go to my second Congo story when I went with Vice that was even crazier with the fucking chief try to kill us but so Congo is the heart of darkness I get why those books are written I get why people have these mind

losing experiences out there because it is one of the fucking darkest countries I've ever been so i don't want to go somewhere different this time do you know the european settlers they tried to live in the congo for a while i met one did you see the houses that they left behind dude when i got to this bantu village and uh chuck his name was chuck chuck if you're listening i know it's 20 years ago long blonde hair from oregon peace corps guy he got uh malaria while we were there and he goes please contact francois and i go who the fuck is francois and he goes he's he's in the jungle and this is this isn't in the congo village is the bantu village

and he goes you go down this tree and you go so he's deep in the in the but this is still near a village it's not you know so we go into the in the jungle and there's like a giant victorian french like european house in the middle of the fucking jungle and i'm like how did this happen and he's like so we go in there and uh francois is just like like, some fucking weird French dude that just said, I'm going to stay here. He had like 12 Bantu wives. There's all these like half black, half white babies crawling around and he has a ham radio and he's like, what's going on?

I'm like, Chuck is fucking dying. Can he said to come contact you? And he's like, oh, okay. I'll contact the aircraft carrier and they'll send a chopper in for him. I was like like oh shit but yeah that's that's the one time i saw a french victorian i don't even know how to describe the architecture it was like a beautiful french home in the middle of the fucking congo jungle yeah there was a website dedicated to uh those people that tried to do that and it just detailed how it all went terrible for them the jungle just

overcame the house like you can't keep the jungle back it's too powerful there's too much there the jungle everything grows so quickly it's just fucking i mean you'd have grass popping out through the middle of your floorboards and shit trees trying to grow through the side of your sewage system like they're just it's just too much it's wild when my light when you just said too much like i just thought right now every time in my my hit a rock bottom in my life gets too much i go back to africa so when someone says go back to where you come from maybe it's africa well we all do right we all do so i look at tanzania on the map and it's pretty close to the Congo.

And I'm like, fuck, am I ready for that? And I heard from so many people how nice the Tanzanian. So I went. Life changing experience. I meet I meet the Hadza who you got to understand this is how humans have been living for two million years. And the Hadza have been in this area for 50,000 years. have been living for 2 million years and the hods have been in this area for 50 000 years and and uh i go same thing they're like who are you know are you tourists i go can i just like live with you guys for a little bit they're like they're they're so nice they're so welcoming they don't

even um they don't even have like the words for like violence and hate and you know they're very present and I go I my life is falling apart like I I'm I'm mentally ill I'm bipolar I'm manic depressive I'm addicted to fucking everything my disease is a disease of more I need more there's a bottomless pit I can never fill. I just need to like run away. That's my action. My action response to everything my whole life is to run away. So I'm in Africa. No one's going to fucking find me here.

And I'm living with this tribe, the Hadza. And they go, so I say living, but it's not really living. Because they're living in a cave. They're hunting. They're gathering. I stay there for a week doing the fake living. I am in a tent. I have a gen,

like these guys are carrying all this shit for me, my water, like truckloads of water. And in that time I saw in one week how much trash I live, leave behind. Like, I don't see it here cause it goes in the bin and the trash man comes in one week.

These guys leave zero carbon footprint. They come a place they're nomadic they set up the shop they haunt they live and then they go to the next place i left a mountain of bottles toilet paper cliff bar wrapper you know that's what all is eating there and i go this is sad one human being left a mountain of trash. And I go, what do we do? And they're like, we burn it. We burn trash. And I was like, whoa, environment.

And they go, do you want to, do you want to really live with us? Because one week in any kind of situation like that is, it's just withdrawal, right? I mean, I'm in internet withdrawal, phone withdrawal, just comforts of normal Western society. And I go, fuck it. Fuck the tent. I'm going to live with you guys. I'm just going to fuck, you know.

So I'm in my fucking underwear, and I'm living on top of a rock in this cave. And the oldest guy in the village is, you know, when he starts talking, it's like I'm in, like, Lion King. He's like, when I was young village is, you know, when he starts talking, it's like I'm in like Lion King or he's like, when I was young and all, you know, I have a translator with me. He's translating Hadzabe to Swahili to English. He's like elephants, lions, hippos, like everywhere.

And like, it was like a buffet. We just wake up, we could kill anything and in my lifetime that has been gone it's gone it's like there's very few animals left to hunt and the ones that are like they're endangered you can't kill them so life there is very very hard and they go you want to hunt with us and i'm like dude look dude, look at my body. Do I look like? And there was like a Catholic priest that set up a mission in that area. And he's been, I met him. He's been trying to convert the Hadza to Catholic Catholicism for 20 years.

And he's like, they use the Bible pages to smoke weed. So what do they hunt with? Bow and arrow. Homemade bow and arrow? Homemade bow and arrow. They take this wood and they spent all day making the arrows. They use their teeth.

Did they show you? Yeah. They show you how they did all this? I learned how to make it. And then they use their teeth to... I think I know that guy. That might be Rasuli.

And then they, there's a plant that they harvest and they do all this stuff to it. And then that's the poison that they put on the tip of the arrow. And these guys, yep, there it is. How crazy is it to think that this is how people hunted dude i live the longest time dude i live state of the art i lived like this for fucking months man it was like so you did this as well dude so first first day of the hunt they're like do they teach you how to shoot a bow first dude my bow shooting is so off. And, yeah, so we practice. Had you had shot a bow in the past? I've never shot a bow in my life.

There's one of these guys. See it? It almost looks like a toy. Like you think it wouldn't work. There's one guy in the village, Shawnee, that's so strong that he could shoot the arrow through the fucking kudu. It was like, pfft. And I was like, you're fucking a super. Those are back muscles in that motherfucker.

Oh, my God. They're fucking ripped, dude. My God, that guy is jacked. They're ripped. They have six back. So they have really, these are very strong bows. So just pulling them back is probably tremendous, like, back muscle exercise. Everyone knows how to hunt.

The kids know how to hunt. What are they using for the feathers at the end of the fletchings? I know that guy. Do you? Which guy? This guy? No uh which guy no down yeah that guy yep I stayed with that guy whoa really yeah he's older now see the cuts on his face yeah I have that they cut my face yeah I asked them too because I like paint for real but but look at that guy where's your cut it's almost gone now this was a damn

dude but don't don't they look like supermodels like they're like really powerful genetics yeah i'm like just and also you got to think of the amount of effort they're doing crossfit classes every day right i mean think about just getting by as a hunter-gatherer with their crazy bow that you have to pull back and you're running through the woods all the time like You have to be fit. It's it's unbelievable. Then what a crazy way to live Yeah, look at that. I Mean what so what are you using for the feathers for the Fletchings? Do you know dude these motherfuckers are so in tune with nature that they'll go

They'll make a bird sound and a book They're talking to the bird and the bird will show you where the honey is what like and then there's a pack of 50 dogs Following us and the dogs aren't pets. They're hunting tools, right? so the dogs are the first line of the defense they've sniff it out and I'm like This is This is mental right? It's like oh like i'm on a fucking insane experience right now never did i thought i would just wait why why am i going home so if i walk with one of the kids amazing it's a clicking language it's like like that kind of language

did you learn any of it tiny bit and i of course i did a podcast where i speak imagine if they take that out of context it turns out you're saying some really fucked up shit i try you gotta be careful right if you're making up a language like you might accidentally hit on some real shit there i tried i tried just say one or two forbidden words so if i walk with one of the kids and it's like him giving me a tour of his house like oh come to joe's warehouse and he's showing me right he's like grabbing a snake biting his head off he's like oh my god he's like you want some thing climbing a tree he just grabbed a snake and just grabbed off he takes out a slingshot the rock a pebble this big bam hits a fucking bush baby out of the tree,

breaks his leg, breaks his legs, puts it here, and it's like, snack for later. Everything is talking. It looks like they're just goofing off and playing, but they have some, what do you call it, microbes and gut biome kind of things in their stomach that no one else on the planet has. So the translator is explaining to me, Canadian scientists come and literally steal their shit. They find them and they steal their shit and I'm like... Their actual poop. Their actual poop.

Just to get their biome. Because there's biomes in there that don't exist anywhere. Secret to a healthier microbiome hidden in the Hadza diet. Secret to a healthier microbiome Hidden in the Hadza diet If you Google steal African shit I bet you it'll Come up see look there it is So this see the bees

On his fucking head they're lighting him up And he's eating the honey and it does nothing To him really so we go climb Yeah come on climb the tree Guy sticks his fucking hand in the tree Scoops that out starts eating it like it's a fucking hamburger bees and i'm like bro i'm cool no no no come on come on like we've been doing that's a kid doing this right that kids i go in one sting ah my

fucking hand inflates to like a mickey mouse like it's just i like, you've been getting stung since you were a kid, so you're immune to it. And they're just- It doesn't bother them. It doesn't bother them. They're fine with it, and their body's also gotten immune to it. Right. That's crazy. They're biting that honeycomb like it's a snack, and all those bees are on his head his hands and the thing you never see in all the national geographics

and all the nature documentaries is that it's always serious and here's the hon hodza warrior and here's you know whatever nate these guys crack you know they're like do you want to do you want to come with us tomorrow like none of you're eating cliff bars and hanging back like you want to i'm like yeah i'm in okay we leave at first you know the second how are they saying this all to you i have the translator with me okay okay he he like works with them and the you know it's like worst case scenario when they they don't do food this this is the sad part they do the fake show for the tourists like the tourists come in usually european and then they put on the fake it's not fake it's real but they dress up and do like dances and stuff and they give them money um so i wake up at you know 5 5 30 first noise

and then laughter i'm like are these fuckers doing fart jokes at five in the morning and that's the thing that people don't realize is when you don't have TV, internet, entertainment, and you're just with your family and your homies all day, you're bored as fuck. So they joke morning till night. Like, I don't know what they're saying. Laughter, laughter, someone cuts a fart joke. And I'm like, all right, let's go. So you saw the pictures. They're ripped back muscles, six packs. The kids have six packs. I was very out of shape. I'm still out of shape, but I was the most out of shape. And think about waking up at 530 in the morning.

And the thing that's the final animal that's like kind of left is baboons. They almost call them in that part of Africa, like the baboon men, because that's what they eat. Tastes horrible to me. Baboons look human. So we're in a cave. Men sleeping on the top, women on the bottom. We wake up, there's another cave and you see, oh, there's people in that cave. No, they're baboons. And they're pointing at us. They're pointing, they're like, look, they're coming. So I'm like, this shit is crazy. We're hunting baboons. They're like, there's tons of meat on them.

We're going to, it's enough to feed our family. Think about like running again. I was pretty fast in high school. I could do the 50 pretty quick. I can't run at top speed for hours. And I got these. I'm drinking water. And in this environment, it's an advantage to have black skin Because it's cooling

These guys aren't sweating I'm like what's going on We've been running for five hours You guys aren't sweating What the fuck And they don't get tired And then they'll just start digging a hole And drink like a handful of brown water

And that's enough for them And I'm like dude what the fuck And they're telling the translator This motherfucker looks like he's never caught anything in his life. And he's like, he hasn't. And to me, I'm an alien, right? They go, he gets his food from supermarkets. What's that? They hunt the food for him.

They cut it up and package it and sell it. Like, they don't believe it. The shit I tell them, they're like, hey, hey you guys you look like a fucking supermodel can i bring you to america and do a fashion thing and get you guys paid and why would we want to go to america well tell me what you know about america isn't that the place where people jump off buildings to kill themselves like that concept is so foreign that when someone explained suicide to them i was like oh my god they don't and in in the time that i'm there like i said that first week is withdrawal i'm like fuck where's my phone and then all of it goes away right i'm not thinking about any of my

addictions i'm not thinking about like i feel feel peace. I'm not, I'm not miserable. My depression goes away. And I go morning till night. You wake up, you hunt for food, you get home celebration. Everyone's happy that the men brought the food back. The women, you know, gathered the berries. We have a big dinner celebration because every meal you got to be grateful for dance party by the fire and you're out a couple fart jokes and you're out repeat the next day there's no time to be like bored and sad and upset and worried about some bullshit and so i'm trying to keep up with these guys you know they're they're running at top speed like

say this is um say these are the baboons on top of the, they're doing a perimeter. They're doing, okay, we're going to come up all the sides. And the dogs are on the forefront, right? They're running faster. There's a guy named Ale Aleane. He's got some dreads. He's the tribe pothead. He's got the Bible.

He's rolling joints for everyone. He's about 50 feet behind you know he's running at like a he's not doing this he's like he's got i'm maybe like two three hundred feet behind this guy so they're they're trying to like you know come on so he's running and rolling joints he's, rolling joints. And had you done any running before this? Not really, man. I'm a sprinter. I don't have endurance. All of a sudden, you're doing this for hours with these people?

Oh, my God. I almost blacked out. How many miles do you think you were running? Dude, because they're going back and forth. We're like, dude, I'm just going to chill here. They just run everywhere. Run everywhere. Just running.

And some of them have shoes. They make homemade shoes but some of them don't so it's just barefoot and i'm they're run it's the it's the dry bush right so there's like plants that have like thorns and like it looks like this on them just like that white scratch to me i'm getting cut open i'm like bleeding everywhere. Their skin's tough. And they're just fucking clowning me. They're clowning me. They're like, bro, how did you ever survive? And I'm like, come on.

Come on, guys. I put a GoPro on the dog. So I go back and I watch it. The baboon is like a human. Like it's talking. Get the fuck away from me. The fuck away. The baboon's running. The dog Like it's talking. Get the fuck away from me! The fuck away! The baboon's running.

The dog, he's like, fuck you! They hunt him with dogs? He gets hit right here. He's bleeding. So he's leaving a trail of blood. Fucking hypes up the tribe.

Let's go! We got him! He's hit! The dog gets his nutsack, rips his fucking dick off. I'm running. The guy holds up his nuts. He's like,

look, we got the nuts. And I'm like, why are you showing me his nuts he's like look we got the nuts and i'm like why you show me that he's like he's we're getting close they finally fucking hit the guy like sort of here and and you're saying the guy too you're not just saying the baboon you're saying it hit the guy it looks human man god it does right it looks real close he backs into a tree like a dog human though yeah and and all the dogs the dogs are dope i love these dogs so much they're all hunting dogs so they all have scars and fucking tails missing like because the baboons have fangs yeah they

pick the dogs up and they rip a chunk off oh my god and these dogs are so hardcore that there's a dog that had one leg missing there's a dog that you could see his ribs and they're still down to hunt. Like they're in the back with me, but they're still like, I want to show value that, you know, because I talked, I interviewed each person in the tribe and I said, what is the happiest day of your life? And they all had the same answer. The day that I hunted the biggest animal and I got to feed everyone and I was the hero. And these are all baboons for how long? How long have they been only hunting baboons? I mean, it's been for a few years now.

I mean, they'll hunt anything. They'll kill anything. But there's nothing left but baboons just recently? It's getting to just that and even then. Because this day, that day that I was on my first hunt, because there was many days we hunted where we didn't catch anything. And that's like super downer for them. But this is my first hunt.

I had the GoPro. The guy shot. He backs into a tree, like his last stand. And the dogs just start ripping his guts out and start fucking, you know, and I'm watching this. And he's like, and it's like he's going, fuck you, fuck you. And he's just like picking dogs up, throwing them. Oh, my God. And then they just come up, and they go right in his chest.

He's dead. This is all on GoPro. I wasn't even close. I was like, wait up, guys. Fuck. They tie the foot and the leg, and they make a backpack. That's how they carry it. So they caught four that day.

So they bring it back to the village. I don't know if you saw in that picture, I brought my top ramen with me. So I was like, they don't waste a part of this thing. The person that killed it gets to eat the dick and the balls. They eat the head. They eat the brains.

They turn the fur into like jackets. And they just, they eat the brains. They eat the brains. They turn the fur into like jackets. And they just. They eat the brains. Dude. So at night, I thought dinner time was over. But think about it. How much protein and nutrition is in the brain, right? And it's the final thing, right?

They stew the head that's in that pot. And so the brain gets cooked. And then it's like a delicacy at the end. They like tap a hole in. And it's, you know, they have black skin. Like I remember like it was fire. It was in the cave. It's nighttime. And I hear, I just hear eating and I turn my flashlight on and I see like the whole tribe just chowing the brains at the end.

They're like, this is our favorite part. Save it for the end they're like this is our favorite part and save it for the end yeah and they're just like and then so it's all those white brains like streaked on their face and i'm like yo you want to get in on this give me some of that brain so i had some brain and did you really i ate everything i mean it's there it is oh my doesn't that look like a person that's so intense so once the fur is but I'm not putting that on the screen just so you know. No. Yeah.

Good. Thank you. Once the fur... Look. That's so intense. This is fucking... Should you put it on the screen or no? I don't know.

Look, I... You guys in trouble? I'm just not going to for this. Okay. Well, let me just say this. That's how hardcore this picture is, right? You can find it. Yeah.

You can find it easily. Look, you want to talk about... This is life or death. Yeah. Oh, I get You can find it. You can find it easily. Look, you want to talk about, this is life or death. Yeah, I get it. I understand. So when... But I'm saying it is intense and there is a thing

about primate brains. Right. Preons, preon diseases that you get, they find them in cannibals. So there's something about eating a human. See, I'm smoking a weed.

Humans eating human brains. Oh, so they did get a bird there. Yeah. So sometimes they get birds too. So I am. But they're eating mostly baboons. I tasted it. I wasn't eating it.

I'm like, I have a million Clif bars in my backpack. I know. That is so intense. There's the dogs. Seeing that guy carry a baboon on his back like the way you're describing it's so intense they got a some sort of an antelope or something there and then they're drinking out of that water but they're smoking weed with the bible there it is dude look at this fucking guy um so i'm i i pass out there's nothing left in the gas tank i pass out and the next day i'm like okay what like

like i'm becoming a man they're like did you eat the actual baboon meat as well? I ate the baboon meat. It's not for me. And I eat everything. What did it taste like? I've never eaten a human, but I'm imagining that's what a human would taste like. It was just, I don't know, gamey? That's the only, it was just, it was strong.

But. Well, you got to think of the physical strength of those animals and how tough their meat must be and all the testosterone and everything is being released it didn't taste good but they loved it they love the they're happy you know steve ranella no steve ranella is the host of uh the tv show meat eater and he went to um i'm trying to remember where it was somewhere somewhere in South America, and they ate monkeys there. And he had some of it, and he said it was like they smoke it, and then they cook it in like a stew, and it's like smoked turkey. They did that to the head. Yeah, there he is.

So they're eating this monkey and uh they're chewing on it like that's that's intense man bolivia that is fucking intense like seeing someone chewing on a monkey leg is intense you know yeah there's just something about it where it's like that is that's our cousins that's next level i mean there's something about it it's like this is this is life life or death it's crazy how much we but we think that way about mammals in general because if you get to deer like people are way sadder when they see a dead deer than they see a dead fish there's something about like mammals right right like we don't give a fuck about a dead turtle when they throw that thing on the fire and you see all the fur burn off and he's like in the Christ pose, it looks like human.

So the next day I'm like, all right, I'm getting my endurance up. And they're like, we think you're more of a gatherer. Why don't you hang back today? Because they were like humoring me. And I was like, okay, okay. And I brought all my art supplies with me. And the kids are like, they use the beeswax and they make little sculptures and they take little you know I'm like these kids are awesome so I fell in love with the kids I'm like I'll adopt all of you

I'll bring they're like we have parents I was like all right so I brought all these art supplies with me I got markers I got watercolor and you know you know, we're in the desert and it's all brown. I mean, not the desert. We're in the bush. Everything's brown. And so I got all these bright blues and reds. And the kids went nuts. Like, when you give kids art supplies, and I'm just watching them, like, this is fucking amazing.

And the day just went by. I just gave art lessons and, like. Just someone who's never seen art supplies. That must be fucking insane. And I'm, yeah. And I'm asking them like, what? You know, and they're drawing like the hunt. They're drawing because they've never seen TV.

They've never, they don't have any of the visual like stuff that we grew up on. So everything is pure from that perspective. And in my head, I'm like, I cannot wait to get home and show this to people. And maybe we can do prints and books and sell it and help you guys. And they go, okay. They show, you know, everyone comes back from the hunt. They show and they go, we're on top of this, this cliff, the cave. And they just throw it.

Hey, what the fuck are you guys doing, man? I was going to, you know, in my head, it's like, come home, frame it. You know, there's a memory of my time there. They're like, oh, nomadic. You don't guys. We were present. We created it. We lived it.

We enjoyed it. Bye bye. Like, what am I going to walk around with a fucking canvas and paper? And I was like, damn, dude, this shit is. These people are next level. And so. It's a different world. Well, that's why I'm saying like, was like man now i got this experience i feel

good i'm gonna go home and i'm like why am i gonna go home like i'm fucking falling in love with these people they're showing me how fucked up i am and like what i and so i just stayed there i just stayed there about a long stayed there for a few months i bought a huge piece of land i work with um if anyone that's listening right now is interested it's uh hadza h-a-d-z-a dot org and you can you can if you want to like sponsor a kid or you want to see how they live and because it's this is it this is the end for them like it might already be the end like i don't know if anyone listening has tanzania contacts like this way of life is pretty much over like in there's less than a thousand hodza left yeah these are the guys i stayed with they're fucking amazing um and and uh

dude will you come yes go to africa is that what you're saying yeah i thought you meant come to like the movie premiere um dude please please i your your daughters your wife will fucking love it like you don't and here's the thing we could set it up where you don't have to like i gave you like the fucking hard malaria tour yeah you take malaria pills you're not going to get malaria and you can't do that for kids though you could malaria medication so i met i met a spanish for a german couple there that has like a nice kind of bed and breakfast kind of thing. Like not in that area but a little bit away. And the guy raises his kid like at nice private schools in Germany. And then in the summer times he comes and the kids in their underwear run around and they hunt with the tribe.

And I'm like, this is life-changing Your fucking kids will look at these yeah Look at how look at they're all smiling having like the fucking time of their life Look at the dog look at the dog Yeah, Hadza dot org how many baboons you think you ate while you were there I'm telling I'm being honest with you i just tasted a little bit and then i'd go in my my my little cubby hole and eat my cliff bars so you only ate their meals look at that i painted the oh my god you're seeing them biting a chunk

off the baboon's head oh jesus dude i mean it's it's it's crazy to think that that's like the cure to like future medicines and shit might be in these guys's shit and then they're gonna be not raising it dude it's fucking insane like we met those scientists that are collecting that data out there um fuck I can't remember her name well obviously neither one of us is a biologist but if you think about it yeah if you're living like in a completely natural way in the middle of i mean what a crazy biosphere there's so much life there yeah there's so much so much life there that you gotta imagine there's so much bacteria life too, right? And if you survived to 2020, like your ancestors got you to 2020 living like that, like you have to be robust.

So all those people that do live there, they're probably just a superior version. Any one of those guys could have been a supermodel because when they take their shirt off, they're fucking ripped. And the guy, Shawnee, that I said, when he hits a kudu, like the big, with the arrow, it goes all the way through. And I'm like, the other guys in the tribe, when they hit it, it hits the animal. Those guys are fucking shredded. Dude, they look like.

Look at those guys in the center. That's insane. They're fucking shredded. They look like jujitsu champs. Dude, they're fucking amazing. They do. Those guys, well, you got to think, man. I mean, the amount of physical activity and exercise,

they're probably, their endurance is like never waning. They're constantly doing it. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking with my Western brain, dude, if I take you back, you guys are going to be the toast of the town. Fashion models, if someone trains your both thing, like you could be in the Olympics or maybe you could be a fucking baseball player. Well, how about runners from there? Runners from parts, there's one part of Africa in particular

that's responsible for a tremendous amount of long distance runners. And they had a radio lab podcast about it. And they said that it was because of their ability to endure pain, that they had a ritual, a coming of age ritual, where they would circumcise the men

like with a dull knife and have them crawl naked through like thorns like they did they did some hardcore shit to these guys when they were young to get them to just be able to endure pain in a way that most people just incapable of they've developed a tolerance to pain because some of the rituals the episode's called cut and run it's really crazy because this guy talks about it but he also says because he had gone through it himself and he also said he doesn't want to do it to his son it wouldn't want his son to do that it's like it's you don't have to do it it's too hard but that it makes sense man it

doesn't make sense it does makes total sense just because I think look I'm not a long-distance runner but those people that, they say it's all about your mind. Right. It's all about being able to endure the pain. Right. And some people can and some people can't. And if you're a person who's grown up dealing with pain, it's a part of your culture. You know, you've got to be hard as fuck to make it in the Congo.

Hard as fuck to make it in Tanzania. You've got to be hard as fuck. Right. You've got to be hard as fuck. Those people, you've got to think of all of those different obstacles their ancestors have overcome to get them to 2020 living a nomadic life in the jungle. Holy shit, man. I mean, you can't be lazy. You can't be slow. You can't be stupid. You have to be able, and you're taught to be able to maneuver in that world from the time you're a baby joe you

can't just read about it you've got to live it what is the fear like that you might get uh malaria or something i'm really high i took a bunch of hits of that blunt during this podcast youtube jamie you you're coming too jamie's not leaving this apartment you're crazy i'm gonna i'll make it so it's the most the best – the best for your family. We'll talk about it after the show. I'm going to keep – because, dude, like – I love it when people bug me about things I say no to. Please keep going.

I thought – you like bow hunting, man. I'm not going over there. If I did that, I would only go over there. Like, you know – Just observe. Come to observe. If I went to hunt over there, I would do it because that's what I wanted to live off of. I wanted to eat it. Like, you can't – I can't i don't think you bring it back no no we

can't donate we would tribes we would eat it yeah trust me we would eat it would get eaten everything there gets eaten yeah i talked to a dude once who uh shot an elephant over there i was like whoa like why and then he said well first of all the reason why they do it in the first place is because some of these elephants will make their way into towns and start eating in the village and eating all their crops. So they want someone to come and shoot it. And I'm like, oh, man. Like, that's a crazy argument. Like, there's certain animals that I feel way worse when they die.

And elephants, there's something about elephants. Elephants are cute. They're not just cute, man. They're dinosaurs. There's something majestic about them. Yeah, they're fucking amazing. They can crush you and they're genuinely pretty cool. They're so cool,

strangers, like regular tourists, are allowed to climb on them in Thailand and ride them through the jungle. You ever meet Michael Jackson? The singer? Yeah. No. So I got to meet him close to before he died and I got to go to Neverland Ranch. Whoa.

The mismanagement of the animals there is like the – they were already gone by the time I got there. But where he used to keep the elephants, the bars are like this thick. And the elephants were so like depressed and, you know, just from like, they didn't have an actual zookeeper that knew how to handle them. So they would just keep them locked up and, like, not. The elephants would fucking headbang the bars. These bars are, like, this thick and they'd be bent like this. Oh, my God. I'm like, man, these fucking things are dinosaurs.

They're also intelligent. Yeah, they're really smart. They're smart. Yeah. They're smart. They have, they're really smart. They're smart. Yeah. They're smart. They have feelings. They feel things. Have you ever seen that they taught him to paint?

Yeah, I've seen that. That's awesome. How crazy is that? I mean, that thing is painting itself. I love that. Here's my question. Do you think they taught it? We actually talked about this, Jamie, didn't we?

Do you think they actually taught him to make that shape, or do you think they taught him to paint himself right like if you if you could show an elephant like this is the shape i want you to make and it's the shape of an elephant if you drew it for him and you said recreate that i give you fruit he recreates that you give him fruit right that's a little different than if he looks at you and starts drawing an image of you. Because we were led to believe that the elephant was thinking of itself and drawing what an elephant looks like. Right. It's just a slightly less impressive thing that it might just be a motion that it's taught to make. But the way you look at it, you go, no, it's too good.

It's too good. The elephant has a little talent. I would buy an elephant painting you should just to know that an elephant did it but i don't want the elephants to have to be forced to work for right right right you want the elephant to want to yeah paint paint it i'm glad the elephant just leave these paints here and if you want to do it yes like exactly like if the elephant was living a chill life i went to a elephant elephant rescue place in Thailand a couple years back. And they rescued these elephants and released them back into the wild successfully.

They've done it with several. I think they said seven at the time that I was there. But they basically take elephants from like a circus or a zoo and they rehabilitate them. And they have them out here. There's like piles of sugar cane. You could feed them sugar cane. Wow. And this thing is like this big.

Its head's this big. Wow. And I'm petting it. I'm just feeding it sugar cane. But they're so gentle. Right. They'll let strangers like me. I just met them.

Right. But if you wanted to, you're a beer can, man. You just get smushed. Stomp you,ed pile drive you he do whatever he wants to you he's so big and then when you feed him and you wash him and you hang out with him and then they'll let you ride

him like you develop like a little bond with them it's interesting man because like you're hanging out with this elephant and you're feeding them and he goes to you to try to eat and then you petting them and then you could wash them and he's enjoying it he's enjoying that you're doing this and then then after all that then you ride them i don't like the riding part if i had to do it all over again i'd be like i'm good i'll meet you guys at the end i

don't want to wear i don't want to ride them but i get get that it's fascinating. And they don't give a fuck. Like you weigh nothing. You're a baseball hat to them. What's the prehistoric, what's the mastodon? Is that the snuffleupagus guy from Cessna? Oh, well, it's woolly mammoth and mastodon. There's two different ones. Yeah, so when you're in the presence of something so majestic,

you're like, you can believe that there's a dinosaur. Oh, 100%. Well, it would be a dinosaur if it didn't exist. Right. Like if an elephant didn't exist and someone talked about it, giant, giant white teeth that come up into the sky. It's enormous. It's as big as a house. What?

I love the babies. It's as big as a house. They're so cute. Yeah. People who, if you didn't know what an elephant was, and someone was describing, if it didn't exist, and someone was describing it to you, and they said it was off in the jungle somewhere, you'd be like, what? Right.

What is it? A leftover dinosaur. You know, we were trying to figure out the other day, and we forgot to check. How old are crocodiles? We were saying that crocodiles are dinosaurs, but the dinosaurs supposedly were killed off 65 million years ago, right? Are crocodiles

something that actually survived before them? How old does it say they are? Holy shit! Those dirty motherfuckers made it through the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. Those are dinosaurs.

They are dinosaurs. Prehistoric. Yeah. If it's 200 million years ago, of course they're dinosaurs. Of course they are, right? Jamie, are there crocodiles that paint? I was looking up. So there's one elephant that, you know, the viral video of it.

It's painting in really good detail. Yeah. Right? But there's a website that has lots of elephant. This is like the conservation elephant art.com. These paintings are way different. Okay. It's like the Picasso of elephant.

Is there some cheating going on? I mean, that looks. That's what I'm saying, right? I was saying maybe he's the Michael Jordan of elephant painters. But there was one or two I was like digging through that was painting flowers with stems and petals and leaves. The rest of this is just like... You should see the video. Play Dave the video because the video is interesting.

Suit of the painting elephant. Oh, look, he's carrying his supplies. The elephant sets up and, look, it does the whole outline itself. No one's guiding it. Great composition. It's not fucking bad. No, it's... Yeah, it gets lots whole outline itself. Like, no one's guiding it. Great composition. It's not fucking bad. No, it's... Yeah, it gets lots of...

Look at that. Good stuff. You're not seeing... You're just seeing the trunk. Is there someone behind it with a stick taped to it, like, sort of moving it? I don't think so. I think back here it does show you... Oh, okay.

All right, it zoomed out. Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's... It's got skills, man. Yeah, right? It's got control. Look, it knowsed out. Yeah, I don't think so. It's got skills, man. You can't control. Look, it knows how to outline the ear. That makes me feel like it's almost been classically trained, though.

Look how thick the line is of the ear, and then it sort of tapers off. Speaking of painting, are you painting at all? No. Why don't you paint, man? I never paint. I used to draw a lot. I know that. Yeah, but I've never really gotten into painting. Not that I don't think paint man I never paint I used to draw a lot I know that yeah but I never

I've never really gotten into painting not that I don't think it's awesome I just look I come to your place you have these fucking paintings everywhere

I've seen your tattoos that you you like to draw you like to draw werewolves you talk all day yes don't you want to do something where you

don't have to talk and it's still expressing yourself and you like art I do sometimes I still scribble i draw things sometimes but mostly um my days are busy this is like the best way to like archery i like archery for calming down okay because that just makes me just focus on a target and i just really it's a very zen thing to do i'm going to send some art supplies to texas you just leave them there okay dude it's like the zen thing to do I'm going to send some art supplies to Texas you just leave them there

it's like the elephant I'm not going to force you to do it they're just there and if you want to then you do it I do love drawing still to this day I've been drawing a lot lately I recognize my limitations because whatever particular mental health problems

that I have I get obsessed with things and I don't have the time to get obsessed with painting. Oh, I see. So if I draw, like I've been drawing since I was a kid. It's not like a new thing. New things are dangerous to me. You sound like me now.

It's true. Well, that's why I walked away from podcasting. I just, I go, I know what this means to me. I know what kind of person I am. Like, I'm all in. Like, this is, like, I'll never paint again. Like, this is going to take over my life. And then I remember I went on the Stern show, same thing, like five, six years ago.

And I was, like, I don't even know what I said. I was completely, like, out of my mind. And Scott Rudin's assistant heard it the Hollywood producer guy and he heard the show send the tape to Scott Rudin I get a call from Scott Rudin he's like I need to turn your life into a television show it's like it's it's too un like it's unbelievable like it's like I've never heard that like you're in the Congo you're in jail you're this like we got to turn this into a show so i'm 38 i don't know something like that like fuck i made it i'm gonna be famous i'm gonna be on tv and i i was like man i got a fucking podcast it's gonna be huge i'm gonna be on TV. I'm doing the fucking news for Vice.

We just got an Emmy. I'm a painter. I got every fucking thing I do turns to gold. I'm the best. Like I'm multitasking. I can do it all. And at the time is when I got introduced to Bourdain. And Scott had this deal with HBO.

He's like, what kind of show do you want? I'm like, I love Curb Your Enthusiasm. I like Eastbound and Down. I like stupid, irreverent comedy. I'm like, make me look like shit. Make me the heel, just fucking clown on me. Make every episode, just whatever story I tell you, do the worst, worst fucking version of it.

And they're like, okay, I get the Hollywood lawyers and the fucking thing, and I'm like, mom, I'm gonna be on TV. And I'm having lunch at Chateau marmont i just met bourdain and chateau marmont's like the hipster hollywood thing where even celebrities get left alone not bourdain in one lunch and you must get this all the time now i sorry i see you guys are having lunch i just got to tell you what you mean to me and he. I, sorry, I see you guys are having lunch. I just got to tell you what you mean to me. And he's gracious every time. Thank you. Thank you. Can I get a picture? Can you sign my book? Oh, can I get another picture for it? You know, lunch is interrupted

20, 30, 40. I don't know. Every, every five minutes someone's coming to the table. I know. And I go, is this, how do you get milk how do you he's like he's like everything just takes longer Dave just takes longer now and I'm like wait

let me let me do a quick scan of my life right now I get lots of women I got I can eat at any restaurant and I have no

wants or desires everything's handled and I have just the amount of little bit of fame for my art where like no one's bothering me When I walked down the street once in a while, I'm at a supermarket and someone's like, DVD, I say, and that's it. I have it. Why am I? So I walked away from that deal. And at the same time, I've been flirting with it. Bourdain, he wasn't going to do

it forever. And he started grooming me, Roy Choi, David Chang to kind of take over for him. He's like, you've had, it wasn't like a huge step for me because I've already been doing that. And I think that's how we connected. He's like, you know, I have Thumbs Up, which is a travel show where I fuck with people and I go meet people all over the planet. You have yours, millions of people watch your show, 10 people watch your show, but, um, you can do it with like an art twist, you know? And I sat there and I was like, fuck bro. I don't know if I want your life. I don't know if I want this. You know, I had that moment of clarity and all the chaos of, I need another thing in my life to show people that the gambling wasn't a fluke the art wasn't a fluke that that

i'm not just lucky that i'm talented that i am enough and the anger is like oh i'm gonna be on fucking tv now i'm gonna fucking kill it and i was like my life's pretty dope right now i don't know and dope like on the surface like underneath you know i'm just a cauldron of suffering but i said i think i'm not gonna I'm not gonna take this one and Scott if you're out there I'm sorry like we we walked away from that project and then that's interesting just because you saw the what the repercussions of the fame part well it's isn't a Bill Murray quote I want to be rich and famous and he goes why don't you just try the rich first and see if you want to add the famous to it or something like that

it's like you deal with that now right yeah i mean people just some people see what what other people have and they wish it was them like i remember being a comic in the beginning the early days, when I was just coming up and opening for people, I remember seeing people that would be excited to see a comedian. I'd be like, wow, that's fucking crazy. Like the person, this person I know,

people wanna meet him. They wanna see him. I'm like, man, what do I have to do? Like there's a part of you at 21 years old. Where you're like, what the fuck do I have to do like there's a part of you at 21 years old, right? Like what the fuck do I have to do to to be like that guy? So what is your life like now with like the last time I saw you? I mean you've been famous since I've known you but it's exploded since then Can you go to the restaurant? Can you go to restaurants? Most people are nice

Most people are friendly. So how do you deal with the great experience change my life? Like say what's up? So so nice to meet you. Just keep walking moving nice to meet y'all gonna get out of here Most people are cool. They want they just want to say hi hi fine man. Nothing wrong. It's I love it I'm happy. I love that people enjoy it, but it's a mind fuck and you got to be careful It is a mind fucking mind fuckersers it's a like just meeting people that know you and you don't know them that's not a normal state for human beings it's weird no it's not you know so someone said it best once and i took this on early on that like you meet like you have to have a like reset like the the real problem like sometimes people get upset and they

meet too many people but i'm like we gotta have a reset like every person's a new person like this is the first time you ever met it's not their fault that you met three people in a row on your way to the bathroom this is still the first time they're meeting you but you could get stuck in a spot too though you could go to a bar where everybody's a little drunk

and then you're mobbed and then people want to take pictures and hug you do you think that's going to be more or less in texas i don't know man i think if i thought like that i would never do anything you never take any chances never do anything different i'm jealous man i think it's i think i need to get the fuck out of la man i was born and raised here i'm an angeleno i think for, we're all realizing because of this pandemic that there's

pros and cons to cities. But when shit gets ugly, there's a lot of cons. There's a lot of cons to being overcrowded. And there's a lot of... There's also a little bit of a problem with just the sheer amount of

people if the virus is spreading, right? Because there's so a little bit of a problem with just the sheer amount of people if the virus is spreading, right? Because there's so many of us. We're in the hotspot. We're in the middle of it right now. Yeah. And there's so many of us, you know? Do you see the Herman Cain thing? No.

Herman Cain, the guy who ran for president, he just died of coronavirus. And this is after he had went to one of the Trump rallies, one of his campaign rallies, with no mask on. And then I think he was admitted to the hospital 10 days after that, right? Is that what it was? It's a rough way to go, man. Dude, this shit's crazy, man. You know what it's like, dude? It's like 10 different diseases.

Like you talk to one person, it seems like no big deal. The other person tells you they're still not well. Four months later, they've got neurological diseases. One person's mom beat it in a day. The other person almost died. Do you remember in the 80s when AIDS, like people didn't understand it yet? Dude, speaking of AIDS, I have to pee so bad. I drank so much water before this. So let's pause. This is not speaking of AIDS. I have to pee so bad. I drank so much water before this.

So let's pause. This is not speaking of AIDS. You were making an AIDS joke. I was. I just have to pee. We'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen. I just drank too much water. My apologies.

No worries. Welcome to Real Talk with David Cho. I didn't, I didn't, we'll get back to AIDS, but I didn't dye I didn't, I didn't dye my hair, um, because I'm, uh, trying to like empathize with gingers or whatever. It's cause I'm going bald and it sucks. I'm 44. I'm a middle-aged man. Now I like to think that I'm like a young free spirit, but I'm starting to thin up here

and I go, what are my options right now? Shave your head. Shave your head. Yeah. head shave your head yeah comb over man bun hat uh hair plugs hair transplant propesia wig sewed right into your fucking skull dude i've never thought about it because i shave your head i swear to god i wish when i first started going bald i would just shave my head from the beginning but my my answer to it was try to dye your hair the same color as your skin so people don't see your bald spot. And then I have like a dark week where I'm just like, I'm fat.

I couldn't keep up with the tribes, the Hadza tribe. That's still fucking with you. Getting old. Well, it's when you go, I haven't seen you in a while. You look fucking great, man. Thank you. Like you're always been in shape, but I've tried trainers before. Like, I think I told you last time, and thank you for talking me out of becoming a UFC fighter.

My special, you know the Korean zombie? Yes. And I go, why do they call him that? And it's like, because he can take a punch. Oh, yeah. He just keeps coming. That's my special skill. Every fucking fight I've been in my life, and I've lost most of them i think i told you that i never tap out like you

have to break my arm you have to i've had my face disfigured so i don't know that was stupid i i'm not gonna go into ufc fighting but i go i when i think of myself as a person I remember myself being relatively athletic in shape and when I go oh my hair's going I'm getting fat I can't run as fast as I can I need a trainer I need help but what kind of trainer do I need the one like you where they're like hey

every morning here it's sort of like sergeant drill style or more hey Dave like so I went with both I went with the hard ass that shows up at my house dave out of bed i don't give a fuck wow runs me till i puke how was that one lasted a week out done how many days a week we try to have them on three monday wednesday friday and after friday you're like get the fuck out of here i just was like this isn't my style like let me try this the like soft-spoken so i got this lady, Claire. Shout out to Claire.

And she would, I told her, I know myself. I don't like to be uncomfortable. Like I run from discomfort. Like I want to get in shape. But if you push me too hard, I'm an artist. I'm a sensitive being. I'm not trying to get into like fighting shape. Just get me somewhat relatively healthy.

And then I sort of dropped off with that too. And then the pandemic didn't help. So I'm sitting here and in my brain, I'm like, I have a fucking fire in me. I know I can fucking, you know, if I, I thought when we were starting the hunt with the tribe, I was like, I'm going to keep up with them. And I did in the beginning. It's right in the front with the head guy. We're running Nona, that's his name. And then I dropped off. Of course you dropped off.

If you don't run every day, you're going to drop off. That's just part of being a human. I mean, it doesn't matter. All this fire in your heart shit. Listen, everybody feels that. Like there's a reality to physical fitness and performance. And the big reality is you got to put in work and recover. It takes forever.

Can I tell you how I feel when I listen to the Joe Rogan experience? Because I leave you on all the time when I'm painting. I was listening to you when I painted the thing of you. I do feel extreme gratitude because I'm like, even though I've listened to Joe for hundreds of hours now and there's tons of stuff I do disagree with him, thank God he exists. He doesn't have much of an ego. He like, you've always uplifted me,

promoted me, all your friends. You have a great sense of humor. And where the fuck was I going with this? I don't know, but you're making me uncomfortable again. Oh, I love it. Fuck, where was I going with this? This is what I'm talking about with the memory and shit. We're talking about the tribes,

and then we're talking about how soft we are, and we're talking about how they have awesome poop, and people are trying to steal that poop. I don't know. Maybe I'll remember it. But I, funny that you would think that someone's poop, like I know how to become like him.

Oh, this is, oh, we were talking about feelings. Oh, feelings. So I, and you know,

I love you. I love you too. Thanks, man. I got really uncomfortable. And I, and, and you have such fucking powerful people on here that are

smart that are inspiring that I start to feel self-conscious and and you have like David Goggins on it's like dude this fat guy that just turned his life around and then I start to really feel less of a man self--conscious, like a failure. I'm like, fuck, man, if I just pulled myself up by my bootstraps and I just got – who's speaking right now? Fuck you, you fucking pussy. The fuck up. Oh, shit.

Okay, okay. Which Dave was that? That's the Dave that tells me I'm a pussy. That's Drill Sergeant Dave? Yeah, the Drill Sergeant Dave is, you know, I got diagnosed with severe antisocial personality disorder traits. And I said, what does that mean? Why don't I have the actual disorder? And they're like, because we've never met anyone that's so fucking hard on themselves.

Like, what's the first thought when you meet anybody? Like, friend, foe, anyone? It's fuck you. You think that all day. Fuck this guy you who the fuck fuck but the the strange thing about you is you actually have friends and people like you and you have a lot of people that love you and you love a lot of people so we can't diagnose you with the actual disorder but you fucking have a lot of so you would see people and just say fuck you immediately that would be i have such a i have such insane abandonment issues my parents sent me away since i was a kid so i have a really weird thing with authority or even anyone saying hey david are you open to a suggestion yeah sure let me hear it and the second they open their mouth i'm like fuck you you don't

fucking know me you don't fucking know me you don't and it's like so um that's so funny so i i listened to your show and i'm like damn dude joe fucking did this he's got all these inspirational people that turn their life around like why the fuck do i still have a gut why can't i and why why am i still depressed why am i still addicted to this why am i can't why can't i get off the fucking internet? It's talking to you a little bit about the video game stuff, right? When I was in my mid-20s, people couldn't wait for Warcraft 3 to come out. It was like the new shit coming out. I remember.

Right. They're like, it's going to come out. And they delayed it. And it finally came out. And I didn't have any money then. And I got Warcraft 2. And Warcraftcraft 2 the interface for the kids out there listening um it's like god interface like your little peasants and paladins and you're moving them around where Warcraft 3 is more 3d I don't know what the fuck I'm explaining video games um and I got on there and because the entire world was waiting for Warcraft 3 no one was playing Warcraft 2 so I was the god of Warcraft 2 you know when you go on online games you get a game really quick

this was back in this is like 20 years ago so wait I'm 24 yeah it's like 20 years ago so I'd get on the game and I'd be waiting I'd start a map and I'm like who wants to play and I'd wait and I have to wait for people to join. My career was just getting started. I was in a wonderful relationship with this woman that I dated for seven years. My life was like on the up and up and this thing completely took over my life. Have you ever seen this documentary called Web Junkies

about the internet problem in China? I haven't seen that, but I'm aware of the problem. It's a documentary from 2014, and it starts with a kid just crying. And they're like, why are you crying? And so China had declared PC rooms, internet, video game addiction, a national emergency. So they said, it's okay, we set up these centers,

and you could either poison or drug your kid and just drop them off there. Like, or you could lie to them and tell them they're going to like a camping trip and then just drop them off there. And then they stay there for 90 days because that's, and it's like a prison and these, the start of the movie. Yeah. Look at the kid crying. You see that? Wow. So they can't stop playing video games. They can't stop watching porn. They can't function.

So this thing, in the movie at some point, I'll spoil it, they escape. Like from- Is this a documentary? Yeah, it's a documentary. They escape from the madhouse at one point. Like the kids, you know, they form a plan. And where do they go? They go to the PC room down the street. They just can't help themselves.

They can't stop. Wow. It almost looks like an independent film. That's why I asked if it's a documentary. No, it's a documentary. The way they shot it is very interesting. Because for me, you know me. I don't smoke.

I don't drink. I don't do any of that. But I fucking, I've been to over a thousand AA meetings and I don't drink. What people, why do you do that? And I'm like, cause I can't stop porn. I can't stop video games. I can't start, stop gambling. And I know that they have meetings for that too, but they're harder to find. They're more shameful. There's less people. There's less people and if I go to a room and I'm talking and there's a guy speaking about how he got clean from alcohol I just listened to him and every time he says alcohol I replace it with porn video game And I and I and I'm like and not just that I'll do that in the last case-ditch scenario But I'll I'll go to all the meetings. I go to all the fucking meetings and so I'm sitting on Warcraft 2 and all the meetings. I go to all the fucking meetings. And so I'm sitting on Warcraft 2 and something's missing from my life and my rage and my anger and all my addictions and my mental

illnesses are coming out in this Warcraft game. And I find this map that's perfect. It's a small map and it's called paintball and it's just everyone dies. Everyone has one hit point. So one hit and you're dead. So it's more like a chess speedball game so the games don't last more than 15 minutes you have one peasant one paladin and one wizard

and I killed at that game I killed and within five minutes you know like the way it goes you bring down a blizzard storm

and you build a cannon tower or whatever and you know if you're gonna win and this is before within five minutes? cause it's a fast game everything moves fast and you don't have to wait for the wood to chop it's really fast and never fucked with those games i didn't have uh this was before the earpieces so within five minutes the game is sort of on auto so you know it's like who can do the things the fastest. Then I start talking shit. I'm going to skull fuck your parents, you dumb motherfucker. This is a kid like in.

Oh, my God. And I'm like, like all, you know, the way people talk, like all their demons come out. Right. And I'm playing kids and they're like, why? What is a skull fuck? And I'm like, I am a horrible person. And then one day I was the king of this map. Like in this one area in my life where my art career is kind of going good, but not really.

And I don't know how to be in a relationship. And I'm just sort of lost in my mid-20s. I don't know who the fuck I am. In this game, I am God. I'm God. And I'll go out and I'll be checked out. I'll be out with my friend. How many hours a day are you playing this game?

I'm not going to lie. It would be like all day. I'd be like, oh, I got to go work. And so it was the first time in my life.. How many hours a day are you playing this game? I'm not going to lie. It would be like all day. I'd be like, oh, I got to go work. And so it was the first time in my life. 10. 10 hours a day? No, no, no.

12? Like 18. 18 hours, 20 hours a day. So I would play this game and I would lie. I started lying. I started lying to my friends about what I was doing. And when I was out, I'd be checked out. They'd be talking about, hey, this new thing, we're going to go here. And I'd be like, ice storm, ice storm.

You know, it's like, dude, you're laughing. And I could laugh with you today because it's fucking 20 years ago. But at the time, I had, I had, I don't want to admit to you that I played the fucking game 20 hours a day. I'd be like, yeah, I played eight hours. Well, you know,

listen, you know, I had a video game addiction. I know. A hardcore one. Right. So I get it. I get it.

But, but see, we're older guys. I meet kids today. I was talking to a kid the other day. He's 20 years old. And he said, he said,

I can't get hard. And I'm a virgin. And I said, wait, wait, hold on. Back up. Guys like you and me, like older dudes, all have the same story of how we saw our first pornography. It's always print. Right? It's always Playboy, Hustler.

Exactly. It's always print. It's a naked photo on a piece of paper. Dude, I had a whole bit about how we would find it in the forest. yeah it's in the forest it's in your parents garage stepfather's garage that's our generation that's what we found and then the first time you saw porn how old were you like physical porn like with the moving the moving uh i was in junior high so 13 14 i think i was probably around there too maybe maybe i was 14 and pixelated right it's on the on the showtime with the no i saw scrambled tape i saw vhs tape that was the first time i ever

saw it my head fucking exploded shit couldn't believe you could see it's crazy because you had never seen anybody fuck before then like you kind of knew what vaginas looked like because a playboy and breasts looked like. But there's something about watching people actually have sex. You're like, your whole body takes it. When you're a 14-year-old kid and you see that, it's like a drug. Right. Like a drug that jolts.

It's not like a drug. It is a drug. It is a drug. I mean, for the kids out there that. You just don't take it in a pill or a smoke form, but it's a drug. We live in a society today where we have a strip club, a drug dealer, a casino. It's all right here. You don't take it in a pill or a smoke form but it's a drug we live in a society today where we have a strip club a drug dealer a casino it's all right here you don't have to leave you remember the vhs tapes that were in the oh yeah so i live in a house a small house three brothers me and my older brother my younger brother and my head exploded because i saw scrambled porn and my

friend alejandro's place i was, I think I could see a tit. People don't even know what you're saying when you say scrambled porn. It's like my new paintings. There's like glitched, like you see a tit or whatever. It used to be, let's just explain. There used to be, there were certain channels you couldn't get to. And your parents would have to subscribe to Showtime. But you'd take like HBO over an HBO Showtime package. You would decide

well, let's just get HBO or we can only afford Cinemax. But there were some of those channels they'd call Cinemax Skinemax. Because there's some of those channels. They were like fake movies with an excuse to show softcore action.

But you didn't see Penetration. No. The first time i saw penetration was when i think i was 14 i don't remember who got the video but one of my friends got a porn an actual porn and we were watching it like in stunned disbelief like what in the fuck right and so that what in the fuck i see the scrambled porn and I can't function as a normal human. Now I'm 13, 14 years old. Scrambled.

I live in a two bedroom house with two, like three boys that are all hitting puberty. And, and I, I go, I need more. I need more. Whoa.

So I go and wear my dad's trench coat. I walk into a, uh, adult bookstore on, um, La Brea and like Highland and sorry, Santa Monica. It's where Trejo's tacos is right now. Cause I wanted to look like an adult, you know, I'm like a fucking like zitty Asian kid. And I walk in and you remember they used to be like 40 bucks and

like in a carton, they were like expensive. Like the packaging was really big. And I went in there and I saw a package. It was like, and I remember it perfectly. Up-and-comers, Raylene's first, you know. And I'm touching the box and it's taped up and there's a metal detector and there's cameras. And I go, I lost my mind. I lost my mind. I was like, I have to have it. I don't have 40 bucks.

I'm a fucking 13-year-old kid. I use my fingernail to take the tape off. I take the tape out and the guy sees that I'm... Hey, what's going on there? Fucking jam it on the coat. Book it. I run home. You got away with it? Yeah, I ran all the way. That's when I should have been with the tribe.

That's when I... When you're 13 and horny. 13 and horny and I get home. We have VHS and a beta machine because my dad chose wrong, and then we had to eventually get the VHS. And my grandmother is watching WWF wrestling. So you've got to understand the dynamics of a tiny home.

So my grandma, my two brothers, and my parents, and someone is always home. Someone is always home. So this thing's burning a hole in my pot. I got to watch it, but when can I watch it? So I finally put a plan together. I go, I'm going to watch this. And I don't even know how to masturbate.

I don't even know what that is. I have no sex education. I go, at din dinner time on Wednesday. I'm going to eat my dinner really quick, run to the fucking living room. And, uh, so it happened. So we're eating dinner and Hey, slow down. Why are you eating dinner so fast? Fucking scoop up the rice, get some kimchi. Okay. Hey, can I be excused? Like, no, we're having family dinner right now. What's going, what's going to tell, tell me. I know I'm good. I'm good. I run to the fucking living room and you can, it's not that far. I don't live in a huge house,

so you can still hear the silverware clinking like they're eating. I pull out the, there's like a Disney movie in there. I pull out the VHS. I put in my thing. There's the FBI warning. I'm fast forwarding. I'm like looking, I'm looking fast forwarding and you hit play and fast forward, and then I see tits, and she's wearing jeans. And then, oh, my God. No. That's the cover. No, no, Jamie. No.

Don't do this to me. I found the actual video, too, if you'd like to see. No, no, no, no, no. Time out, time out, time out. This is outrageous, young Jamie. Actually, I don't watch porn anymore. Outrageous. You're making me relapse right now.

Let me see that one more time. So I fast forward to this and you got to understand I had seen print, Playboy. I'd seen, I'd never seen that. Right. The moving

and how fucking veiny their dicks are and like, you know, like i'm like fuck man so i am everything's dopamine serotonin you know i'm like my dad could walk in any second and like i'm like my i'm pressing my dick against the wall and then i was like okay and i'm studying and i'm like save this for later this goes in the spank bank. Save all. Okay. This is enough. One more second, two more seconds. Okay. Delete tape,

put the Disney tape back in, run back. Hey, why are you breathing hard? Why? Oh, nothing, nothing.

And then I, I get to my room and I share a bunk bed with my brother. Oh no. And I'm like, are you on top or the bottom? I'm on the bottom. Oh no. I'm on the bottom.

That little fuck could just look down, see you at any moment. So I have, I am, uh, full full of there's cum coming out of my eyes i'm full i'm like i gotta fucking jerk like i don't even know what i'm like so and i always knew when my brother fell asleep because his breathing slows down so i'm like sitting there i'm pressing my dick against the wall i'm like and he's like, finally, he finally falls asleep. And I go, okay, I'm going to like hold my whole arm because it's a squeaky. It's like a shitty bunk bed.

Oh, no. I'm going to hold my whole arm against my, this and jerk off. Fuck. Dave, you knew? Okay, whatever. And I start doing a very gentle, quiet masturbation, but it's still doing it. A light tug with a little bit of squeak. Because I don't want to wake up my brother.

What I want to do is I want to fucking crank it. I get it. And then I hear, David, that's my brother. He's like, why are you shaking the bed so much? I'm like, oh, fuck, man. And now I'm like, damn I gotta find a place in my house anyways I could go on and on about your brother's a cock blocker

he's a cock blocker he fucking cocked me blocked me from myself so I bring this up because this is what we had to do to bust a nut back in the day it's not that hard today it's everywhere so I meet this 20 year old kid and he goes I'm'm a virgin. I've heard your story before. Cause your story is every old guy's story.

My story is my mom was watching me. She left the YouTube video, baby shark or some shit up. And I, she went to the bathroom and I clicked Pokemon and then it was Pokemon cosplay, triple anal gangbang. And that's the first thing I've ever seen at age four. Whoa. Straight to anal age four. How is that possible? Dude, if you have an unblocked phone, like it's very easy.

How's a kid going to get to Pokemon porn? Is it that quick? Jamie? Is that back in the day? That could have happened, sure. Is this also like back in the day when YouTube used to have it set up? Did they have restrictions back in the day? Because when things first started going up, there was a lot of people sneaking things in that weren't supposed to be on there.

And then they would catch them. It could still be, for all I know. But they didn't have porn. None of those have had like. I don't think so. But I think people can probably get away. It could probably be up there for like five minutes before it gets taken down or something. I don't know. You know what's so crazy is that Twitter still has porn.

Right. Like hardcore porn. Like if you let your kid look at your phone and they click on Twitter, they could see someone taking the ass. I have a blocked phone. Yeah. That could happen. Boo. So this kid's like, that's my story.

And that's most young people's story now. It isn't they found their dad's Playboy in the forest. They accidentally stumbled upon something on the road. Or some kid that doesn't. It wasn't an accident. Someone tells them. Some older brother goes, hey. So my first visual burned, programmed into my young mind isn't a still image with a woman with a huge bush it's

fucking anal penetration that's my first image and as the addict craves novelty as you get older you need more and more so by the time i'm 13 i've already that's i need prolapsed anus stuff i need transsexual i need gay sex i need he says, this kid is 20 years old. He's never had sex. He's like a, what, a simp, incel, whatever they call him. He uses Viagra to get half hard. He can't even get fully hard. And it's, his life is just scrolling.

It's just porn, video games, porn, video games, porn. And it's, we could sit here and we could laugh at it. And I have laughed at it. But this is, that's a. And it's, we could sit here and we could laugh at it. And I have laughed at it, but this is, that's a problem. That's a problem. So if I take it back to when I'm 24, when the technology was way less, I missed my first deadline. I was late to work. I didn't, I lost that girlfriend, not just because of that, because of other issues too, but I didn't get up for one weekend from friday to sunday without pissing drinking water and at some point i had found my this guy this arch enemy on this warcraft game

he'd win one i'd win one one more one more one more he'd win one one more and the guy was like a british guy who had a wife and kids he's like bro i got a life dude and i'm like fuck you pussy we go we go we go hours hours I'm seeing fucking wizardry in my mind I'm seeing paladins I'm seeing them I I feel like god when I finally got up I fucking collapsed my legs were gone and then I almost had to call 9-1-1 because they just wouldn't work for an hour and I called my friend who's a doctor and they're like, you're dehydrated. Go drink some water. And if Jamie just Googles Korean video game overdose, it's always a Korean. It's always an Asian. They play video games to death.

There's a Korean family. Why do you think that is? The culture there. It's like intense. It's like if we think we suffer, like the addiction that most people, if you play whack-a-mole, you're like, hey, I used to be addicted to sex, gambling, da-da-da-da-da, and I jump and I jump and I'm addicted to this. The one where you can hide in plain sight where everyone pats you on the back is workaholism, right? I could work all day and night. And in this culture, you get pat on the back.

Asian culture is the same, except if you fail, you either kill yourself and you're an absolute disgrace. And you know, it's like, um, in Japan it was the suicide rate was really high. Now it's in Korea, but it's all your identity is tight. Like, who are you? Oh, I'm a podcaster. I'm this, you are only what your job is. And if you're not good at it, then what's your drug? i'm gonna fucking just zone out in this uh video game pc room my life's not going well there's a there's a man and a wife in korea i saw this in some documentary that they would keep going to the internet room to play this video game like where you virtually raise like the sims or something like that that they forgot

to feed their own kid and their kid died and they went to jail for it. And then when they went out, it's like, this is a fucking problem. This is like a real problem. And we live in a culture where there's things that are accepted addictions, right? If you fucking do opioids and heroin and like, I've been to those rooms, man. I see how they treat people. If you're like a heroin addict, there's a hierarchy. You're a real drug addict. But if you smoke weed, come on, man. You're not going to OD from that. But if you look at the amount of people that kill themselves now, like it's almost normalized and how many of my friends have done that,

how many people that you know that, and especially during this pandemic, the suicide rate's gone up like crazy. That's a fucking real problem, man. Like, and people, when I think of Bourdain and I think of myself and even starting the show off giving you compliments,

we live in a culture that doesn't know how to, when people say, don't shoot the messenger, the messenger, people say that because the messenger gets shot. We don't know how to ask for help.

We don't know how to receive help. We don't know even to ask for help. We don't know how to receive help. We don't know even how to give help. Like, if I try to help one of my friends who's, like, addicted to video games and jerking off, he's like, get the fuck out of here, Dave. You don't fucking know. I'm like, bro, just trying to help. Right? It's very hard to help people.

They have to want help. Right. If people don't want help, you're not going to help them. You're going to bully them around. You're going to yell at them. They're going to eventually do what they want to do anyway. But when someone comes to you and says, hey, help that's when things get serious because other than that you're forcing like i have friends that i would like if they did things differently in terms of their health

i can't say anything to them like i just you just have to accept it this is what it is you know the people come up with their own excuses, their own reasons. You brought this up earlier and I wanted to ask you now. Like, you were talking about, like, physical stuff. Like, you get angry and you get anxiety because, like, you let yourself get overweight. Like, how much does that fuck with you? And how much would you give to not have that anymore? Like, isn't that, I mean, if there's one major thing that keeps fucking with you and how much would you give to not have that anymore like isn't that wouldn't i mean if there's one major thing that keeps fucking with you over and over again that you could fix

i have that's a fixed one like you could fix that so i have a disease of more like i was saying that i have a chasm a black hole that it doesn't matter how many women I have sex with, how many porn I've jerked off to, how much money I've, I've gambled and lost in one small fortunes, huge fortunes. I have had an eating disorder, which is like, I thought that was a girl thing. That's what I thought. Like I got to, when I went to rehab for gambling addiction, this is the first rehab I've went to. I've been to every fucking rehab, mental health wellness center in America. Now. Um, I said, Hey, do you guys deal with process addiction? And they're like, yeah, sure. Come over. And when I went there, there was only meth heads there. They didn't even know they just wanted my money. Yeah. Just come over here.

And I learned they're like serious gambling addiction like, one out of four kills themselves. Yeah, it's the reason why there's no balconies in Las Vegas. The only place that has balconies is the Cosmo, I think. And they had, like, two suicides the first month they opened, I think. Because you're... So I'm like, I have things that when I talk about it it's funny can't stop jerking off can't it's all I can't stop working just fucking got a Emmy working for Vice and I got my podcast and I got this and I got this next project and my next art show is

gonna make a million dollars and then you're addicted to that there's no end to it right there's no there's no nothing and when i meet when i watch the jordan documentary and i meet famous people that have succeeded at the highest levels i go how long were you happy for maybe a day maybe 24 hours and then what happens the next day back to the grind it's not enough got the gold medal back to the, back to the grind, back to the grind. And I go, it's never going to be enough. I'll never have enough women, money, success. It's this. And I go, I have so many friends who've killed themselves.

I have so many. Like Bourdain asked me for help. He asked me for help. And I'm like, yes. What did he say? He said, I'm fucking miserable. I'm miserable. How do you how do you deal with this and i was like i've been waiting for this fucking phone call thank you how how

recent or how close to when he died was this it was within the year it wasn't like right but so he said it was miserable and in what way do you describe it he said you're successful i'm successful do you find yourself suffering and i go absolutely please and then I called him and and I this is what I mean when I say asking for help and receiving for help that was a fucking heart you know people that know Bourdain I know his friends I know his manager you won't find a fucking person that will say a bad thing about him that guy is a fucking he's so awesome he's always looking out for you he'll show up for you whatever you need he'll take care of you he's an amazing guy very very interesting guy but a complete and so you can't find anyone but i'm

like you're a fucking asshole dude you're an asshole you murdered yourself you murdered yourself you killed someone that person happened to be you but you couldn't even show up for yourself. You... Sorry. I'm sorry I'm getting real It's okay man Listen I get it you love the guy I loved him too

It's um I've known many people that have killed themselves now. It's a very sad thing that you can't, you can never fix. That sadness is always going to be a part of you. You're always going to think, maybe I could have gotten to him. Maybe I could have talked to him. Maybe if I was there. But that was it.

He did it. He reached out. He's like, I relate to you, him. Maybe I could have talked to him. Maybe if I was there. But that was it. He did it. He reached out. He's like, I relate to you, Dave. I connect with you. And I was like, yes. So what did he wind up doing? I talked to him. I said, hey, man, here's all the things I've done.

I'm in a really good place now. I can help you. I can refer you to places. I got you. And it was almost like like thank you for caring for me thank you like he was he was severe codependent like he was a people pleaser right he's like i'm like he never said no he's like i'm gonna fucking help everybody except for it's okay man I get it so

I'm gonna help everyone except for myself and I think I make this up in my head and I've done this too before it's like I kind of half ass ask people for help oh Dave I got resources and then I go that's enough.

Just to know that you cared and that I know that there's places I can go to, that's enough. I don't have to actually full stop my life and change until, you know, oh, fuck. So that's what I mean when I say we don't, as a culture, people don't teach us this shit. People don't teach us how to fucking ask for help and then receive help and i i fucking gave you five compliments at the start of the show i i can't i couldn't take a fucking i couldn't take a compliment i couldn't say one nice thing about myself five years ago and if someone tried to say something, hey Dave, you're good, I'd shut them down.

Okay, okay. It's like, and I turn everything into a joke, right? Everything, I can't sit here in this discomfort. I don't want to be uncomfortable. So I find this place. I go, I'm fucking ready now. I'm ready.

Whatever my best thinking got me here, like whatever, talking to people, sitting around, like something's fucked up with me. All the shit that happened in my life, I'm like throwing myself in a fucking jungle. Like I'm going to jail repeatedly. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Why are you choosing to look at it in a fucking jungle with like i'm going to jail repeatedly hold on hold on yeah why are you choosing to look at it in a negative way in the way you're describing it right there but something must be fucked up with me i go to the jungle i'm doing all this crazy shit that's one of the things that makes you interesting is this extreme real curiosity you have a real curiosity and a

willingness to do wild shit like go to the Congo and look for a fucking dinosaur and sleep in a tent I'm telling you this story now because I'm alive I could have easily died there multiple times and then going back

going back 10 years later I think a film crew is going to make that easier I get it the fucking chief's sister had a machete in her mouth and was like, let's kill these fuckers. And I'm like, why am I back here? Why did they want to kill you? Because they thought we were, they wanted money.

And we had used all our, we gave them all our money for filming rights. And the sister was like, they have more. Like he was like the evil warlord of, it wasn't the pygmies. See? No, but still. Look, it it's not you're looking at it you're what what makes you interesting you're looking at it as a negative one of the things that makes you interesting is that you're a wild person who takes chances that's why i told you you should do a podcast look joe i the that's but d, it's not a bad thing. All these things you're saying are not bad things. Can it be both?

I don't know, man. I mean, I think... Can I teach you what I learned? Yes. The way I'm talking to you right now is how I talked coming into, like, these loony bins that I've been to. They're like, wow. The way you talk is very black and white. Fuck this. This is bad. This is the fucking bomb. This is the shit. talk is very black and white fuck this this is bad this is

the fucking bomb this is the shit this is lit this is fire this is fuck i don't even know i said that i don't talk like that it's like it's like i was in the parking lot in korea town and i'm like i'm looking at the next generation of koreans they got shit in their face they got piercings i watched these two korean kids talk to each other for 20 minutes and they only said, bruh, lit and fire. And I'm like, what the fuck did you guys just say? Anyways, because of my religious background where it's heaven or hell, God's way or Satan, you kind of look at everything like that.

Joe Rogan is the best. That podcast is the worst. So you ask me right now, why do I look at it in this bad way? And I go, can it be both? Because you don't have a gray. There's no 50 shades of gray. It's just black and white. It's only the best and the worst. That's if you could, you feel something if you fucking come off a big win. Yes. I just won a shit ton of money in Vegas. I did this. I did that. Or if you get canceled.

But in here, in the middle, you feel nothing. So you got to go for the highs. And usually you feel more when you lose. So you chase the lose. Like you don't fucking get it. What, Dave? You're going to fuck it. I like losing.

You don't fucking get it. I like feeling shit. You almost died in the Congo. Why are you going back't fucking get it i like feeling shit you almost died in the congo why are you going back because i because maybe they didn't get you know so i get the thrill out of escaping the jaws of death there's something severely broken in me that i get a fix i get a hit i get it and the thing is you've heard heroin addicts that say i get this high now just to feel even. I don't even get high.

That's where I was at. I'm fucking playing Angry Birds till my fucking fingers split open. I'm fucking gambling. But you're not saying current tense. No, no, no. I'm telling old stories right now. I know what you're saying, but you're saying it now. Right. No, no, no, no.

I'm soft serve now. I'm fucking smelling flowers. You channeled Dave of old. Yeah, well. That's another Dave that's inside of you. Dave of old. Hey, you driving the bus right now? You want to sit in the back?

Or you want to come back? Come on, Dave of old. You know what? Jamie, you into dead air? Can I just do 10 seconds to get back to? Sure. can I just do 10 seconds to get back to sure this is the weirdest podcast we've ever done thank you thank you so much

cause I'm hyped up you saw that you saw old Dave come up and I want to I want to amp it up I want to keep going high This is awesome, man. So I so I Can't like you meet people and you're like you're wired this way and You can't teach an old dog new tricks and that's just Joe Rogan that you see today in his thirties and his forties and fifties. It's going to still be that, but a little different version of that when he's 56. And I meet these guys. I meet, I, most of these places are very expensive and the people that end up there, it's like everyone has cut them out. So they have to be

there or they lost their job. So I'm usually the youngest guy there. I'm independently wealthy so I can pay for it. And I'm looking at these guys that have everything. They have all the money, all the fame, everything, everything. And they're successful only in their career. Everything else they're a failure at. Their kids hate them. Their wives hate them. And I go, And I go, I got to fucking, I got to rewire myself. Like, I can't live like this because you go, why is this good or bad? And I'm like, because I don't care if I live. I'm ready to die. I want to die.

But wait a minute, but you enjoy life. Today I do. Today I do. Sometimes you don't. In the time that you met me i really probably didn't enjoy life so much it's more everything feels like a chore everything feels like i'm underwater like now no not now now now now i do like so part part of that is the thing leaning into discomfort but what got you over the hump like there's a lot of people that have experienced what you're describing so what got you to the point where now it's all flowers and happy?

Friends. Friends. Isn't that, that is one of the most underappreciated recipes. You have people that will die for you. I have people that will die for me. That is a fucking rare commodity in this world. And when I say friends, I mean they left me. I thought I was a genius.

I was like, whatever the shit you see with Kanye, that's what I thought. I'm like, I'm a genius. I'm doing this. And there was the people that were like, you are a genius, Dave. You are great. And I go, you don't get it, dude. I want to fucking die right now. I want a cop to come out and shoot me because I'm fucking his wife right now that's what i want that's a fucking crazy story for the podcast dave

that's i i'm not living i'm not no one's home hello no one's home and so my friends say we're done with you wait you're my homies down for life right ride or die we're fucking done with you who who the fuck are we to you? Who are we to you? You've, I've had friends that I've known since I was eight years old. I'm 44 now, my whole life.

They go. And so in a moment of clarity, like the same way I didn't fucking kill the German guy, I go, wait, every person in my life that I chose to have a friendship with is telling me I'm an asshole, that, that I'm not me anymore,

that I'm not making sense, that I need help. And I, and the thing is, I I'm an asshole, that I'm not me anymore, that I'm not making sense, that I need help. And the thing is, I know I need help, but I'm like, why did I get sent away when I was a kid? There's three boys. Why did I get sent away? Because you are the most well-behaved. We didn't have enough money to raise three boys, so we sent you away because you didn't

cry, you didn't cause problems. So I'm a kid now. I'm four years old when I get sent away. The wiring is. How long do you get sent away for? For one year to Korea. I don't know who the, I don't speak the language. I don't know who these people are.

And there was no explanation. There was no, I just woke up one day. I'm having the best time with my brothers. And they're like, bye. My mom's crying. Like, why are you crying, bitch? What the fuck's going on? Bye.

I'm all of a sudden in this smelly country. And so I'm like, I'm trash. I'm trash. I'm fucking worthless. You don't give a shit. And nobody explained to you what was happening? Nobody explained. Nobody explained shit.

So now I'm wired, when they do explain, oh, when you get sent away, because you're good. Good behavior is punished. Why didn't my brother get sent away? He was crazy. He was a problem child. He was like Chucky. He was like, he got to stay. What did they send you away to do?

What did you do when you got to Korea? It was just to live with my uncles and my aunts and just to have other families support me because my parents weren't doing too well financially so then the whole concept of nice guys finish last right right so i'm this quiet asian guy and you could just say whatever you he's a pushover you keep getting fucked over fucked over fucked over the guy with the eyes outside the... Then I get out of jail. What do I get? Sold out show in New York City. Dave Cho says whatever the fuck he wants,

does whatever the worst I act. Look at what's happening to Trump right now, Kanye. You act as shitty as you can and you get fucking gap deals and presidencies and you never fucking apologize. You never... Calm down fucking apologize. You never. Calm down, Dave. Calm down. The Dave of old.

So you. So my thinking is acting right. Acting like the model minority. Acting like the good little Asian boy got me nowhere. When I talk a fool, when I do whatever the fuck I want, when I fuck, when I fight, when I gamble, when I act crazy, I get television deals. I get on Howard Stern. I get on fucking Joe Rogan. I get fucking sold out art shows.

Okay, let me pause you. Okay. Do you think that you are the victim of the attention that you were getting? Do you think you leaned into it and it became who you decided you were because that was giving you the most love and people got a kick out of the fact that you? Genuinely didn't give a fuck so you just leaned into that so it changed you it's absolutely that but it's more nuanced than that There's no it's everything. I'm already mentally unstable four-year-old thing man, right? That's it that right didn't mean when that I mean that's the fucking that's the gasoline

That was poured all over you. So things don't make sense to me. They can't make sense to you, man. And as an adult, I go, I have wealth. I have money. I know famous people who have wealth. Why? We know the story.

Rich, famous, fucking blow your brains out. Hang yourself. We know that story. You're alive right now. And listen, it doesn't have to ever go down that way but when when the one thing that you've got to know is you can't fix any of the shit that happened to you that's that's a that's a real problem because the shit that happened to you was titanic for that to happen to you at four years of age as you're growing up and developing to hit a horrible situation like that at four through no fault of your own, all of it makes sense.

It's what we were talking about, that everybody doesn't start from the same spot. And it's what makes, unfortunately, it's what makes people so goddamn interesting sometimes too. Whether it's Joey Diaz or whether it's you or most of my friends that are really interesting, had these fucked up lives that you would never want to wish upon your kids. But see, when you say that, I hear that and I love it and respect you. So I go, I, this is just how I feel. I go, Joe loves me because I'm weird and I'm interesting. And for me, no, I'm saying how I receive it and I need to stay fucked up to be interesting. For me to get help, who can I look to? Who navigated their way out of this jungle?

Who did it right? Who can I look up to go, man, that guy was wild, crazy. He did all this crazy shit. He got rich and famous and whatever. And then he sailed half, like, where can I find that? And I go, no no i just accept i'm not you know yes i've had suicidal ideation yes i'm fucking mentally disturbed yes i've had to go to jail and lock myself up many times but at least i'm rich you know like let me stop you again

okay here's the thing to concentrate on what is the goal if the goal is to be happy all right the the problem is a lot of people are doing things to be successful because they think becoming successful is what makes you happy. It doesn't always. Sometimes you feel empty and you feel angry that you spend all your time working for something that you don't even appreciate when it's over. But you're on paper, you're successful. That's not really successful. Can I tell you one of the, can I tell you you story of how I got better and let me hold you? Okay, this is what I want to get to yes. Some people are happy

Right would we would can we say that do you think some people do you think there's a percentage of this population? That's happy some people are happy Yes, of course some people are happy okay. Yes, there's no characteristics that exclude you from that group. You could also be happy. And I say this to anybody. Anybody who's been happy. But how, Joe?

This is what you got to do. Concentrate on what it is, first of all, that makes you happy. And I guarantee you for a big part of it for a lot of people is their physical health. Improve your physical health. You'll improve your enthusiasm, you'll improve your energy, and you'll improve your ability to do other things. You'll be happier. Right.

And then do what you're doing. You've already gone onto this great path where you've changed basically who you are. You've become like this guy who's more introspective. Can I tell you, just growing up in america part of being a man because someone asked me where's your idea of a man come from i go from clint eastwood watching guy movies growing up you know the way korean men are so macho and so that's in me right and what is what is that what is being a man it's like shut the fuck up and take handle your business don't ask for help yes korean asians we don't like asking for help we never ask for help and so when i tell you that i've been to every fucking mental health institution and like

there's sick people all over the country in the world i never saw one fucking asian guy until i saw one for fucking five years I'm going to all these places, and I'm and I'm thinking don't ask for help. They don't ask for help. You just Suffer silently there's people listening right now that are suffering because you know what they do The story I've just told you right now. I wasn't able to say that for years because I made trauma a competition Big fucking deal you left Your parents sent you away. You weren't starving in Korea. I'm like, I'm four years old, dude.

I don't know where my fucking parents are. Yeah, but your grandpa, he has this big ginseng farm. You're having a nice life out there. Okay, you know what? There's someone else down the street getting fucking molested, getting beaten. Everyone tries to do this hierarchy of like, I got it this bad. Shut the fuck up. Who are you? And I i go but everyone's pain is maximum to them right everyone's maximum pain is right so you when you're getting hurt when someone's doing this and to someone they're like big deal that doesn't hurt my feelings and i go but to me it does i'm not

thinking well you know there's people getting killed in the streets right now so i have no i'll say that to myself there's people getting killed in the streets right now. So I have no, I'll say that to myself. There's people getting killed in the streets right now. So just because one guy said, go back to where you come from. I have no, I'm going to quiet up zip. I'm not going to say anything because what is that? That's nothing. That's a, oh, you hurt me with your words.

But I go, but it did. Your words hurt me. And well, you're not allowed to feel that. And yet I do. I feel shit. hurt me and well you're not allowed to feel that and yet i do i feel shit and my whole fucking life my is reactionary to stop that by building walls and come up with these coping mechanisms and i go teach me i want to fucking learn and they go you're not going to like it and you already know because i already talked about here step one was i was like i'll do anything and they're like it's

not going to happen overnight and then someone said there is something that will happen overnight Ayahuasca, I'm like I'm in I'm an addict. I wanted quick I Love you because you do fucking psychedelics. I don't know what kind of person you would be if you didn't like It changed my life. I did ayahuasca 30 when I was 35 years old so almost nine years ago and It fucking the the trip I had in the jungle in Colombia, and they told me, this isn't going to change your life, but it'll kick the doors open for you to begin to become a different person. And we're sitting here, we're sitting on fucking microphones, there's this and this.

There's other dimensions, there's shit. And it's like, I'm telling you, I agree with everything you said. When I exercise, I feel great. But there's something. I can't, I'm, I'm telling you, I agree with everything you said. I, when I exercise, I feel great when, but I, there's something I, I'm an addict. I'm a fucked up. I can't teach me. I need something besides. And this is why I said, when I listened to all the motivational stuff and I, and I get fired up, I go, yeah, if I just fucking got up and push myself and I go, but that's not

me. I need something more and I'm going to fucking be curious. I'm going to search. And so I get to a place where they go, Dave, you turn everything into a joke. You lie a lot, right? Starting with what's a, what's a every guy answer to how are you doing? I don't care if your dad just died or you just got a divorce great okay right okay is not a feeling good is not a feeling something horrible

i could have had the worst day right now and if you asked me how are you doing i'd say good i'm okay and i and that would be a lie so i go what i'm gonna go to a place in mississippi i won't i i'm not gonna say the name i don't know if there's like lawsuit shit, but I went there and it's a mandatory place for crooked judges, Congress, like high, like doctors, lawyers. And they have to be there and they have to relearn, rewire, or else they don't get their licenses back to practice. And I was the only one there by choice. I didn't have to be there. And so I get there and they go, why are you here? And I go, I can't stop thinking a certain way.

I can't stop lying. I can't stop exaggerating. I can't stop storytelling. I can't stop, period. I have uncontrollable behavior. I'm impulsive and I don't like who I am and I'm suicidal at times. And I want, and they go, we're going to do something here. So they took the yellow stick at pads and they wrote no joking.

So they put one on here and here and they go no more joking. And they taught me different ways to like. That guy sounds like a bummer. Total bummer. And they can act like, they go, we know that this place that you're at right now is not how the real world exists. But while you're here, and by the way, you could leave at any time. We're going to ask you to change your behavior. So what was the problem they had with you joking?

That was your defense mechanism for handling anything? Every fucking serious thing? Right. Oh, here's the fucking... I was better at the comebacks. I told you before when I saw you do that thing in L.A. That you did it at UCLA. I'm like, you could be a comic.

You 100% could be a comic. You have a comics mentality. You're fucked up like a comic. You have crazy ideas like a comic. And you're insightful. You have a comics mentality. You're fucked up like a comic. You have crazy ideas like a comic. And you're insightful. You're a smart guy. You'd be really good at it. Thank you for saying that.

100%. There's comics you meet in life. Obviously, you're a multifaceted guy. You can do a lot of different things. You're a great artist. You can do whatever you want. But there's something about comics that never became comics there's a lot of them i worked for one at one point in time i worked for a private investigator dave dolan the most fucking hilarious

guy i've ever met in my life totally was a comic just never did comedy i met a bunch of guys like that were totally comics they just never found comedy like if they did they'd be one of us they'd be hanging out in the back of the comedy store. Can you admit that you can draw relatively good? Yeah, I can draw relatively good. Okay. So you know through everything else you've achieved in your life, if you practiced, you'd be awesome at it. But you said the same thing. That's funny, Dave.

You're going to keep asking me to paint. I'm not going to do it. I know who I am. I get obsessed and whatever. When I walked off the stage at UCLA, I did two hours like improv and I, and I invited like Harris Whittles, rest in peace. He's not here anymore. I invited comic writers and I said, shoot me straight. Like, don't do the, like, Dave, you're great. They were like, you fucking killed two. You've never done comedy before. And you killed for two hours. There's some rusty parts,

but if you just kept the reps in and then similarly i've always always wanted to be in a band right so uh mca from beastie boys passes away and then money mark who's been touring with them for 20 years is out of work he's a friend of mine and i'm like i've known you for a while why don't we fucking make a band we do a i'm formed the band manchi we uh with bobby lee's brother steve Lee as the singer and Money Mark. We fucking tour the U.S. and we sell out like two small, like two, three hundred seater clubs. And every fucking high school like rock band fantasy is fulfilled. And at our last show, I think Bill Burr was there.

I'm like, we're playing here in Los Globos in Silver Lake. And I'm playing to this sold out 200. It's all my friends, my family. There's comedians, there's porn stars. And there's like a super famous, you know, one of the most famous rock band lead singers in the audience. And he's like, can I talk to you after the show? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, I play to like 20, 30,000 seat stadium people now.

And what you just took me back to was our first days when we started, I would do anything for that. And I sat there and I was like, wait, Joe Rogan told me, I like, I don't think he's bullshitting. He thinks I could really do this comedy thing. I felt, I felt like on fire when I was on stage, this guy's telling me if I just keep touring and I keep putting out videos that at some point I'll be selling out 500, 1000 and then in five years. And I go, I love playing music. I love comedy. And I think I've tasted just enough where I don't want to fuck you.

These things take time, man, to fucking perfected and crafted. You've done this for thousands of hours. Like i said in this and this is all like after i've done a lot of work on myself i'm like i i'm gonna walk away from this as someone who doesn't know how to say no and and like i have that overachieving attitude i'm like why not it why not did you have a good time on stage doing that yeah i loved it did you love them when people laughed yeah it was like a drug i felt it do you want to keep doing that and the torture of coming up with new material and like you know and the bands if you don't like i'm like i know myself well enough now that i i'm gonna stick to one thing at a time you know so i'm gonna i'm gonna

tell you this story and i you know i could I could tell you jail stories, porn stories. I have all these stories, but the fucking weirdest shit that I've ever done in my life was to go to this place and it's like an intensive outpatient place. So I have an apartment with a roommate. I don't know, fucking roommate in years. In the time that you're here, once again, voluntarily, you can leave at any time. We're going to ask you to fucking do everything you say. It's counterintuitive to who you are and the way you're wired. But we're going to ask you to tell the truth. And just fucking, and I go, yeah, sure, I can do that. I don't even, I haven't even checked into my apartment. I'm opening the door at Cohen.

There is a man that's obesely overweight sitting on a couch in his fucking tighty. He looks like he's naked because his gut is covering his white underwear. And he's watching Walter White. I see Walter White. He's watching Breaking Bad. And he's on the couch like this. Are you my new roommate? Don't tell on me.

Don't tell on me. Bro, I don't even fucking know you. Don't tell on you what? He's like, I like to do meth and get really fucked up and go to bathhouses and let Mexican guys suck my dick. And I'm like, whoa, shit. And this guy, I don't know where he's from. Specifically? They had to be Mexican.

We got into it later. His name was Paco. He's like, Mexican guys, and I take my stomach, and they have to find my dick, and I hit their head with my stomach when I... Whoa. I go, yeah, I said... That's a fetish. Right, and I take my stomach and they have to find my dick and I hit their head with my stomach when I whoa I go yeah I said it's a fetish right and I go this guy sounds like he wants to get caught like I'm like don't tell on me and so what do I go yeah okay fine whatever so the next day we go into the rooms and the every morning starts with community we sit in the circle here and it's

like does anyone have any agenda items they want to put in? And I go, you know what? I got on a fucking plane to come to Mississippi. I paid the money. I raise my hand. Let's call this guy Walter because I was watching Walter White. That's not his name.

I go, Walter was watching Breaking Bad. This guy, what the fuck, Dave? What the fuck's your problem? I thought we were roommates. I thought you were my homie. That's not how he talks. He talks more like, what the hell, Dave? What the fuck you doing, man?

And I go, I'm here. I'm a fucking rat. I go, this is not how I talk back at home. I don't tell on people. It's like, I don't give a shit. You go, we know Dave just while you're here we're gonna train you and then whatever sticks we want you to be about your word when you say something and I go I don't I don't see how this is helping me you're severe

codependent you don't know how to show up for yourself you don't know how to say no people just take and take people run over you we're teaching you how to stand up for yourself. I'm a fucking grown man. I need to learn how yes Yes, you weren't taught this you weren't taught this shit. You learn from movies and your dad He doesn't speak the language perfectly You don't have any fucking no one taught you these simple things how to show up for yourself how to stand up for yourself I go. Oh fuck and this guy's huge he's like a obese guy and immediately i have to apologize sorry man i'm not sorry that's what i'm here for but i have to have him like me so the session the class ends and i'm sorry dude sorry

walter i'm sorry why'd you do that dave i thought we were friends i'm like dude i'm here i'm trying to get better and i go I have these things on my thing, on my legs that say no joking. And I go, Oh, I got to crack a joke with this guy. I got to fucking like make him like me again. I go, how do you wipe your ass, dude? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Cause we have a tiny shower and he's, he's, he's fucking humongous. He's like morbidly obese. He's like, Dave, man, no, like no one ever asked me questions like this man are you my friend and this guy is this guy had in his

regular life was like a high power something like in government what yeah wait a minute he's doing math he's morbidly obese yeah and he has a high power position in government he's let's just say he's a professional.

Okay. And so I'd never been to a place like this where every person there, no matter what you say, they put you on a lie detector at the end of the week. They go, cool, cool story. And I'm like, wow, they want to hold you accountable. They really, really want to, you got to be on. So I'm like, and and then so I become friends with this guy over the week and like I'm like okay cool I hope he still likes me and he goes Dave you're not like anyone else here everyone else here is like some kind of professional and like

you got the weird hair you dress like a homeless guy like are you famous or something I feel like I've seen you somewhere and I'm like no and I had just taken a class on how to hold a boundary and stand up for myself. I said, Walter, while we're here together, I'm going to ask you just know me as David, your roommate. And if you want to Google me when we leave here and the thing is he, everyone has different privileges. One of his is he doesn't have a a phone so he couldn't look me up or whatever i'm gonna ask you this is my boundary please just know me as your roommate and if you want to look me up when i leave you know it's like okay i could do that i get home that night i fucking knew i saw you on tv man you're the facebook guy you're the fuck you know so it's Facebook guy. You're the fuck, you know.

So my normal, okay, cool, whatever. I asked you, you didn't do it. And I go to my room and I'm like, fuck, man, that really, that really chaps my hide. You know, I'm like, I asked you. And then now he has all the questions. Man, you're rich. You did this. I read this story about you.

Why do you have a fucking roommate? That's part of the thing. I know. That's what I'm saying for him. Oh, yeah're rich. I read this story about you. Why do you have a fucking roommate? That's part of the thing. I know. That's what I'm saying for him. Oh, yeah, yeah. Why do you have a fucking roommate, man? And I sit in my room and I go, once again, I'm here. Why don't I just experience this fully? So I go out in the other room and I go,

Hey, Walter, I asked you today not to do that. And I'm, I'm like kind of shaking. Cause like, I don't talk to people this way. I just,

I bury shit. I just like let things go. I, and I get turned into a passive aggressive person. So I go tomorrow at community, I'm going to have to call you. But please, please don't,

please don't do that. Come on. And actually he went to call you. Please don't. Please don't do that. Come on. And actually, he went to anger first. He's like, his build is like this giant guy. And he's hitting the table. His foot. Dave, what the fuck, man? I'm one week away.

Don't. And I'm like. One week away from what? From getting out. He was almost done. By the way, what does time feel like to you right now? Like, is it going fast or slow? It's regular.

Must be slow as fuck in there. Well, the way people are explaining this pandemic or the quarantine, I'm like, this is jail time. Like when people are like waiting for when am I going to get out? And when do you get out? When you're on good behavior. When does society get out? When you're on good behavior. When you do what you're told.

Yeah. And when you're on bad behavior, stay longer. Oh my God. We're going gonna close the bars down again. So he goes, he starts getting really physically threatening. And part of what I love about wearing masks now is, I don't know what your interaction

with your fans and public have been since you've become famous, is people try to break my hand when they shake my hand. Do they really? They try to break my hand or they shake my hand. Do they really? They try to break my hand or they, they think they're going to have more impact if they talk close to my face. So they try to crush your fingers. They do this. What's up,

man. And then they hold it. And then I, you know, normal. And then they hold onto it and they do a little squeeze at the end. I go, what the dick flexing shit was that?

You know, weird flex, bro. And, and so, um, and then people do the close face talking and I hate, so this guy's like, you know, he's using using his his girth to just like intimidate you and i'm like and i'm like this is

during corona or no no this is like years ago and i say i say you know what i would love walter if you told on yourself if i didn't have to because that's one thing you could do oh and he gets really angry and then he calms down and uh he goes uh i'm gonna do it dave i'm gonna do it i'm like yes fuck yeah i'm i'm changing as a person i'm learning skills i'm learning tools we go to community the next morning and uh i'm waiting we're going in a circle and i'm like fuck dude do it i don't want to call you out, bro. And he goes, yeah, I got something I want to put on the agenda this morning. Got an interaction with one of the other patients here and we worked it out and I'm going to take care of it. And I was like, what?

What the fuck was that? And I go, hold up, hold up. Hey, Walter fucking I asked him not to google me and and the the therapists are like that's a complete violation of the anonymity rights here and da da da and he's like this is and and now all the information this is your 12th time fucking violating a patient's you tried he tried to fuck the roommate that was in the room before me like um the guy was sad and he was giving him a hug and he tried to finger his butthole when he was giving him a hug. Oh, boy.

He doesn't have phone privileges. So, he asked another patient, can I use your phone to call my wife? He calls his wife and then that's what he says. And then he gives the thing back to the phone to the other patient. And then 10 minutes later, he starts getting dick pics from Paco his Mexican boyfriend But he only fucks when he's on meth right? I'm not gay only when I'm on meth who and so they're like and so I'm Like fuck this guy hates me, but I'm like no he's out of he's breaking bad He's out of control, and I go fuck and he's not on meth while he's in that house

No, no well I don't know he might have been. Because he's acting like methed up. So they're like, that was your last strike. You're out of here. And pack your bags and your wife's going to pick you up tomorrow morning. And I'm like, so I go, this is me. I'm like, I did the right thing. And I go immediately to shame and guilt.

I'm like, fuck. I take the, I become, it's my fault. He's getting kicked out because of me. Like, oh, fuck. And I raise my hand again. I go, I don't feel safe sleeping in that room tonight. Can I, you know, oh, some other guy's like, yeah, you could crash on our couch. And I go, okay.

So I'm like, wow, this is crazy. Like, I'm standing up for myself. I haven't ever done this. I haven't ever spoken this way. And I kind of get what's happening If I could learn how to speak like this to strangers maybe I can come home and finally talk to my mom and and And and and have a boundary with my parents or Asian parents are fucking boundaryless, you know

so that night I'm I I'm like fuck I could get my toothbrush I get some stuff in the room and my friends dude, just we'll go get it somewhere else. You don't like why you playing with fire again. I'm like, because I like it when it hurts. And like, dude, the guy is totally made up in his mind. He's getting kicked out because of you. Like, I just got to go to my room and I just got to get my toothbrush and a workbook and something.

And they're like, don't do it. Don't do it. I'm like, I have to. And it's like, do you? Do you have to? I'm like, OK, I don't do it i'm like i have to and it's like do you do you have to i'm like okay i don't maybe i don't have to so i go up he's like i'll just wait here in case something goes bad because that guy can get violent and i go in the room and he's sitting there and he's like stewing he's like stewing and he's like watching like the final episode of breaking bad and i'm like hey what's up And I'm just like, sort of go to my room, get my shit. And then I had to do it.

Like, I'm almost out the door. And he's like, I was trying to guilt me. I was almost out of here, Dave. You had to do it, huh? And I was like, look, man, I don't know you. We've known each other for like a week. Like, I don't have anything against you. I'm just trying to get better.

I'm a sick person. I can say that. I had a hard time saying you. I'm just trying to get better. I'm a sick person. I can say that. I had a hard time saying that. I had no voice. I'm a sick person, and I'm willing. I'm fucking helpless right now. I'm desperate. I'm going to do anything right now to fucking get better.

So if it means I got to tell on you for Googling me, if I got to tell on you for watching Breaking Bad because you like to do meth and suck Mexican guys' dicks and vice versa. And so I get a little cocky. I get a little, and I go, same thing like the hitchhiking. Like, I know I'm never

going to see this guy again. I go, hey, Walter, you've told me the whole time we were here, you always got to end shit with I'm not gay, but I'm not gay. Did you ever think

that maybe instead of like hiding who you are, finally divorcing your wife and like you can go to like the gay parade and wear crazy shit and just be out you don't have to because his whole thing is i only do it when i'm on meth you don't have to use hide behind meth anymore and he chuckled a little bit and i came in my head i'm like oh cool i'm like maybe making maybe some of these words are getting in and he's's like, all right. And so I felt good. Like it felt like, so I leave. And then I stayed at this place for six more months. And during this time I got to like learn and become like a better version of myself and learn new tools. And like, even these people forgot how to have fun they're like lawyers and doctors and

it's like entitlement out the roof they're all the super best at their job the best lawyer the best doctor the best so they're used to like playing god and saving people's lives and people just catering to them so they have they're all breaking bad they're all walter whites they just and and we're here as adults being trained. And I'm like, I'm going to teach these fuckers how to have fun. So I'm like making little scavenger hunts for them. And they like love me. They're like, Dave is the best.

He's teaching me how to be a kid again. I'm doing scavenger hunts all across Walmart and Sam's Club. I'm teaching people how to like make sculptures out of aluminum foil, the leftover from lunch. And people people grown people are crying they're like dave i haven't had this much fun since i was like my dad beat me into being the best and so i leave this place and i'm like i feel good and i get home and i get a text from a number i don't know this is like seven six, seven months later, and it's a picture of me sleeping in that apartment.

The guy fucking took pictures of me while I was sleeping. Fucking crazy. It is crazy. That's... The methed up dude took pictures of you while you were sleeping? Yeah, and I remember thinking that night after hearing the story of like how he, I was like, maybe I should lock my door. And I never did.

Yeah, for sure you should have. I should have, but. Dave, that's a crazy story. And I wish I could hear more, but it's 4.30. Is it really? It's 4.30. We're doing, this is a four hour podcast, right? Ridiculous.

Can I please, please, um, invite you to my next show? When is it? So thank you, by the way, my last show was two years ago it was the cho show and you reposted the billboard that i put up and um painting for me is i won't say it's boring but i just know how to paint now in the same way like you know how to do what you're good at so i I'm going to create a Joe Rogan experience for you. Oh, Jesus. Can we just not? I really do.

I got to go. It's 4.30. It's super late, unfortunately. Can I just throw out the Hadza thing again? Yeah. Okay. So if anyone's interested in sponsoring a kid or learning more about this culture, please go to Hadza, H-A-D-Z-A.org.

And, um, if you're in LA and you want, what is your show? Oh, so yes, I could talk forever. I have a TV show that I just sold that I don't know the name of,

and I don't know when it's going to be out, but just look out for it. We'll check back in with you later on that. All right. That's it. Thanks. David Cho, ladies and gentlemen thank you goodbye sorry that i just fuck man