The Joe Rogan Experience - #1522 - Rob Lowe

Episode Date: August 7, 2020

Rob Lowe is an actor, producer, and director. His new podcast "Literally! with Rob Lowe" is available on Spotify.

Oh, Rob Lowe. Here we go. Here we are. What's up, man? It's good to be, I was just saying, it's good to be in like a proper studio. Have you been completely locked down the entire time? Completely. It's outrageous. We're five months in now. Who would have ever thought this?

And if you'd have said, this is what 2020 is going to have, I mean, you wouldn't have left the New Year's party. You would have never believed it. How does this happen? Like, is there a war? Like, what happens? What takes place? And it's funny how easily, not easily, but like, it's just, yeah, no, this is what we're dealing with. I mean, I guess everybody, one has to adapt.

So that's the good news. Have you been going to restaurants at all? I've been to probably, I've gone out to a restaurant maybe three times. Have you gone to the ones where they wear the mask and then the shield over their face as well? Yeah. It's like they're going to do welding in the kitchen. It's so strange. But it's better than nothing. So you just sort of adapt. I know. I mean, who knows when it'll, I mean, at least some people feel like they're going back to work. I mean, I think we're going to go back on my show on 9-1-1 Lone Star pre-production on the 17th. Now, how will they do that? Well, that's the thing is that's

a big show. I mean, it's not a game show. It's like, you know, it's adventures and rescues and pyrotechnics and stunt people. It's just huge in scope. So it really is the thing. If we can pull that off, that'll be good. But I think the plan is... Well, one thing that's interesting is just how you run a set is going to change, they tell me. So you'll come in in the morning, everybody will get tested, and then everybody's segregated. So you go to the set and the director and the actors will rehearse. That's it. Nobody else there. Then they leave, have to leave. And then the lighting crew will come in and they light alone, just the lighting crew. And then they leave. And then the sort of, you know, all the

production teams get their moment to do what they need to do, but they're doing it alone. Well, they have a test now that the White House is using, and it takes 20 minutes. It's an actual test. You go there, so you could find instantaneously. See, we're doing one here. The one that you got is an antibody test. That takes 10 minutes, and it shows active antibodies,

which means you got the disease five, six days ago or whatever, and your body's fighting it off. It's currently in your system. And it also shows another indicator whether or not you fought it off a long time ago. And then there's the swab. The swab takes 24 to 48 hours, depending on the lab. And then there's real worry and concern like, are you contagious during that time? Like if you just got it today, can you give it to someone today?

They don't know. So until this thing happens with the White House, the 20-minute one that they have, until that's like nationwide, we're fucked. You know, we're in a weird situation where everybody has to be really careful. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny. It's funny. I have no issue wearing masks. I

don't really get that, that, that thing that people, I mean, I get the free, the, the freedom. It's definitely better than not going out. Yeah. And listen, I mean, I feel way safer wearing it way safer and you know, celebrities should be thrilled to wear masks. Yeah. Right. I mean, you know, listen, now Leonardo DiCaprio can go out completely, you know, with even better disguises. You'd be amazed at how much people recognize you, though, even with a mask on. Especially as soon as you start talking, they'll recognize you. And particularly for you, your voice. Everybody knows your voice.

So you can't get in a, you know. But I'm a fan of the bandana. I like feeling like a bandit. But doesn't all the bad shit come underneath the bandana? I don't think. You have to be sealed at the bottom? A bandana I do not think is for you. I think it's for other people.

And then the droplets, if you're getting droplets, I don't think you're swooping them under. I think you are breathing it through. What am I, a doctor? I know, but you're sounding good. You're like, you know, you're Fauci of the ring. Thank you. The Fauci of the octagon. I don't have one of those N95 masks, though.

I have hundreds of them. Do you? Hundreds. Are they the best? You know, I'll tell you what, they're the hardest to breathe in. Like, they are the ones that when you put on your... I mean, you definitely notice that you're sucking wind. But, yeah, my wife was all over that.

Like if there's anything to be bought on Amazon at any time for any excuse, she's the fucking maven. So the minute this happens, she's bought every M95 mask to stockpile. One click is very addictive. It is. It's like, maybe I do need 50 boxes of toothpaste.

It's right there. It's right there. Why wouldn't I do it? I'll find a place to put it. I'll take that. Yeah. So when your show comes back, people will still be allowed to go home, though, and go places. Yeah.

I haven't heard any talk of, you know, sort of quarantining or 14 days. I haven't heard any of that stuff, although I have friends who have gone to Europe to do big movies and they've had to do that yeah i've heard that like they keep you in a hotel you can't leave the hotel everybody who works in the the thing has to only hang out with everybody that's on the project here's what i don't understand so the the uh nba is doing the bubble thing right where they all live like in like uh like a con like a commune right a glorified you know, Disney-esque commune. But the NFL isn't going to do it, apparently. Yeah, it's too hard to get the hoes in there. I was thinking, you know, chicken wing.

When you want those chicken wings, you've got to go out to get them. Yes. What are you going to do? Whatever you want. If you need something, it's very difficult. Are you a fan of the baseball with the crowd noise? Piped in crowd noise? No.

I'm not a fan of fake noise. I hate that some cars do that. Some cars with turbocharged engines, they put fake engine noise through the speakers. Oh, Jesus. Exactly. I never knew that. All my illusions are shattered. I think BMW does it.

What? Yeah. I'm sorry, all my illusions are shattered. I think BMW does it. What? Yeah. I'm sorry to say. No. Yeah. Are the speakers on the outside of the car or are they on the inside? It's through the stereo speakers. Even if the speakers turned off?

Yeah, it's an option that you have to turn off. You have to go into the settings and turn off. See if you can find that. Oh, no. Yeah, it's like- I have a BMW. I know. It's outside. into the settings and turn off. See if you can find that. Oh, no. I have a BMW. It's outside. That's why I said it. It's enhanced sound.

Maybe it's not for your model. I'm pretty sure they do it for the M4, though. Yeah, it's one of the primary complaints of legitimate automobile journalists. The real automobile enthusiasts hate it. Of course they fucking hate it. This is like you told me that Santa Claus doesn't exist. It's not necessary either. Like I have a Tesla

and it doesn't make any sound. It's still awesome. Yeah. Oh, that thing is... That is... The only problem with the Tesla is I feel like I'm every television development executive. Right. You know what I mean? It's the... It's like what the Armani suit was in the 80s. Yeah. It means I'm in show business. Yeah. It's like what the Armani suit was in the 80s.

It means I'm in show business. Yeah, it's definitely a signal. You're letting everybody know you're also really concerned about the environment. You're a really good person. But on the other side of this, you also have one of the most badass pieces of equipment. Would it kill them, though, to do luxurious interior? Would it kill them? Is that about weight what is that

about that's a good question i think it's just first of all it's an american-made company like everything's made here and i think that scaling everything up and it's been a real problem it's been a real problem meeting the demand and i think they just kind of came out with like a reasonable interior and put it together but there's a a company called, what is that company called? Again, they make a car called the Apex. Essentially, they're right next to the Tesla factory in California. And they'll take your Tesla, they bring it over there, and they soup it up. They put a wider track.

They widen the fenders. They put better suspension. That's it fenders. They put better suspension. That's it right there. S-Apex. So they take it and they completely redo the interior. Jeez, look at that.

Yeah, dope. Carbon fiber. What? Oh, okay, there's an interior? That's right. That's a car interior. Yes, yes, yes. I love that you love cars.

It's one of my favorite subjects. I mean, I love them and I know nothing about them. It's like I also favorite subjects. I mean, I love them and I know nothing about them. It's like I also kind of like watches, but I don't know any, like, I just know what I like. Like the movements and all that shit. Those dorks. Is it the H65 movement? Is the bezel infused with whatever the fuck.

I'm thrilled I know the word bezel. What's the name of the company again? Unplugged Performance. So they'll do anything in the interior you want. You know, they'll do like diamond-stitched leather. They'll do carbon fiber. They'll replace all the plastic with carbon fiber. You're a car guy.

I was impressed with the car collection. I love cars, yeah. Were you ever tempted to get one of those tricked-out Escalade? The factory's right around the corner from here where the Escalade's like a living room. I went in there and saw the one they were making for Tom Brady. And it's like the interior of a private plane but in an Escalade. Oh, okay. So they gut it and then just redo it like some very swank interior.

Yeah, it's like a living room. It's literally a living room. What I've been looking at lately is Earth Roamers. Do you know what an Earth Roamer is? An Earth roamer. Yes. I have been an apocalypse guy for quite a while. So you're in all your glory.

I have a- This year I told you so moment. Well, not necessarily. I'm not like a prepper or anything like that, but I'm like, if the shit is the fan- Wait, wait, wait. What's the difference between a prepper? I don't have enough food. Okay.

Got it. I have freezers filled with elk meat and stuff like that. the shit what's the difference between a prepper i don't have enough food okay well i do i have i have a free i have freezers filled with elk meat and stuff like that so i kind of have enough food but if the power goes out i'm kind of fucked that's an earth roamer those motherfuckers you can live in and they can drive like a thousand miles plus and yeah and they do the interior well there's different scales but some of them go up to like 1.5 million dollars and the interior well there's different scales but some of them go up to like 1.5 million dollars and the interior is insanity an earth roamer yeah i'm taking notes i think about i am literally taking notes you can go anywhere with these they also have uh an air suspension that will

automatically level your vehicle so like say if you're on some fucked up, like, kind of terrain that's not level, it'll level it out so you can sleep well. The interior is like the interior of a really nice tour bus. Televisions, satellite, radio, audio, internet. Who makes, I mean. It's companies. It's literally just Earth Roamer. They make the whole thing.

The base is a very large Ford pickup truck. They take like a huge diesel pickup truck, and then they put this insane cabin in the back of it, and there's a bunch of different levels that they do it. You have like a reasonable level for one person if you like camping, and then you could literally bring your whole family, and you're living like you're in a private jet. Wow. And it can drive over everything. That's the other thing. It's like a legitimate off-road vehicle. You can go over a fucking mountain in that thing.

Well, you know, in Santa Barbara where I live, we had these terrible fires and floods. Mudslides too. Yeah, the mudslides killed 23 people. I knew someone who died. Yeah, as did I. It's crazy. Crazy.

She was in her house. Yeah. The people, so you imagine you go to sleep at night, you know that there's going to be rain, whatever, and you go to sleep at night and next thing you know,

your house is obliterated. Yeah. Instantly. The sheriffs came to us to tell us what, you know, about different evacuation zones. And I said,

and I know all these guys really well. So just level with me. What's like the worst thing that's going to happen? Like the absolute doomsday scenario you guys are worried about. And they're like, well, we're worried about the entire mountain going all the way to the freeway. Great. Thanks for sharing. We're going to be fine. And that's exactly what happened. And what it taught me was you truly cannot comprehend like the power of nature like when people used to say california could fall off into the ocean you go that's not good i'm telling you it could you can certainly we could wake up one day and be you know lincoln boulevard in santa monica yeah that's the ocean now. You'd be like, oh, bullshit.

That's nothing. I'm telling you based on what I lived through. The mind – like it's an intersection I drive by every day. Every day. If you said, okay, tomorrow night at midnight, there's going to be a 45-foot wall right here of debris, of homes, of boulders the size of a semi-truck cab you'd be like bullshit that's fucking from where where are the boulders coming from where's okay that's what happened you can't imagine it now were you in your house when that happened i was in vegas with my wife my son matthew was home whoa he thought He thought he heard the most radical thunder he'd ever heard in his life. How old was your son?

He was 22 at the time. And he's like a prepping, like he's an outdoorsman. So if there was any one of the family to be home, it would have been Matthew. That's what I would have wanted there. And also he thought it was any one of the family to be home, it would have been Matthew. That's what I would have wanted there. And also he thought it was daylight. He woke up and thought it was already – he'd overslept because the fires from all of the propane explosions had lit the sky up. So it looked like daylight. Whoa.

And then he called me and I got on the scanner, the police scanner, and the stuff that you could hear was just unbelievable. I mean, it was pandemonium. Yeah, it's such a beautiful area, Santa Barbara and Montecito. It's so gorgeous because of those mountains, but that's also what makes it vulnerable if there's a fire, right? Yeah. Because all the stuff that kind of holds the mountain together and keeps the erosion from happening all gets burnt up and then a strong rain. That was the problem. We had a once in at least a hundred year fire. The area behind our house hadn't burned in over a hundred years. And a once in probably maybe they think a thousand year rain event all within six weeks of each other

so one of the things that was fascinating to me was the amount of ash because i went on a hike afterwards and there was six at least six inches of ash you know like when you see the astronauts footprints on the moon that's what it looked like all up all as far as you could see in the mountains around santa barbara and then when we got that rain with the ash it was it looked like all up – all as far as you could see in the mountains around Santa Barbara. And then when we got that rain with the ash, it was – it created like a viscous lubricant that just pried these boulders out. Oh, wow. So that's one of the reasons why these massive, massive, massive boulders that you would think would be soldered into the Earth's core, which is like boop, and just washed out.

It's so hard to imagine because, like, if you drive up the 101, you see those beautiful hills. You just see beautiful hills. But what that is is evidence that the Earth is moving. That's what those hills are. You're safer in Kansas. But then again, you're not because then there's tornadoes. There's no free lunch, man.

Oh, look at this. uh yeah i know that house yeah it's it's crazy when you see that like six feet of mud literally poured into people's homes so just like the people that were on the bottom floor of the house were just destroyed immediately yeah i mean you. How many people died in this? 23. What a crazy way to go, too. Yeah. I mean, in the stories, you know, everybody's story is more tragic than, look at that. Well, one thing that this pandemic taught a lot of people is that what you think of as being static and unchanging, that the world that we live in is basically pretty stable. It's not a small event, and it's not small,

but a virus that kills less than 1% of the population can completely obliterate the world as you know it. And that's minor in comparison to a solar flare or an asteroid impact or a super volcano. Like if Yellowstone goes, that's the real concern. And that's another thing I used to think, ah, that's, yeah, that's my, that's the stuff I watch at night by the fireplace. It's my ancient alien shit. That's not really happening. And now based on what I've, I've experienced, anything could happen. Well, Yellowstone definitely could go. They say it goes every 600,000 to 800,000 years, and the last time it went was more than 600,000 years ago. Can you imagine? They would obliterate everybody in the continent.

There'd be no one left. The people in maybe Africa, some in New Zealand, some people would survive, but they would experience nuclear winter. So crops would die off. The temperature would radically reduce. The entire sky would be filled with ash. It's a super volcano. You know, those caldera super volcanoes, they've exploded throughout history and killed massive, massive numbers of human beings. Like they think that there was one in Indonesia somewhere around 60,000 to 70,000 years ago that killed off most of the population of the world and left as few

as 7,000 human beings. Really? Yeah. That's just 70,000 years ago. Well, you've had like Graham Hitchcock and people on it. Graham Hancock. Hancock, right? Yeah, and Randall Carlson.

Is that part of that narrative too? Well, they've concentrated on asteroid impacts and particularly the asteroid impacts that are proven now that they believe ended the Ice Age. And they also believe restarted civilization because they think that there was some incredibly complex civilizations that we're not totally aware of other than some of the structures they left behind, like Gobekli Tepe and some of the ancient Egyptian structures. Gobekli Tepe and some of the ancient Egyptian structures. But there's a clear indication that something happened both from an archaeological perspective and also from a geologist perspective. When they do these core samples, they find that somewhere around between, you know, somewhere in the 12,000 years ago range, there was a massive impact because, and all over the world, because they find this tritonite night which is this nuclear glass everywhere they also find iridium which

is really common in space but not not very common on earth and it's a level they see in this yeah it's our samples it's a very it's a very consistent level and they find that nuclear glass that's the same glass like when the Trinity project when they first blew up the first nuclear bomb. That's one of the things that they found was this nuclear glass. And it's just this incredible force that causes the sand to turn into glass. And they find this all over the world at around 12,000 years. And there's also a lot of awareness today of all the near-Earth objects and when Earth in its orbit comes in contact with these consistent near-Earth objects.

And that something probably hit Earth in multiple places, like more than one object somewhere in that range and ended the ice age. They think it happened twice. The speculation is it happened somewhere around 12,000 and maybe again somewhere around 10,000 years ago. It's crazy. It is crazy. I love all that stuff. I live for that shit. I love it too.

I live for it, but I don't because I don't want it to happen again. No. So it's like I get excited, but then I don't ever – the worst is if I listen to Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and then I smoke pot and go to sleep. Then the head. You should record those dreams. Oh, yeah, if you could. You should write them as teleplays.

It's terrifying. It's just we're so vulnerable. I mean, we're vulnerable, period, right? I'm 52. How old are you now? 56. You'll look great. Thank you. How old are you now? 56. You'll look great. Thank you. You too, sir. You look great.

But we're almost dead. Let's be honest. I mean, how much time we got left? If everything goes great? No, no. We're going to live forever. We're going to have that pill that's going to be announced next week. That might be the worst thing that could happen.

You might want to go quietly in your sleep rather than live for 500 years and see the the horrors that humanity turns into i that too and i don't want to like if my body breaks down i'm not i'm so physical i love i love doing my stuff i i i don't think i'd be one of those people like you know what his mind is so sharp though it's like well fuck that's great meanwhile like i can't fucking walk yeah you can't you know it's, I want to be able to do my thang. Yes, yes. Listen, I want a sharp mind. Let's stipulate that.

What do you do to maintain yourself? What do you do to keep the machine working? Well, the number one thing was, you know, I stopped drinking years and years and years ago. How many years? 30. Oh, so you got way ahead of the game. I'm way ahead. I'm way ahead.

So I don't do any of that. Wow. That's a lot of discipline. But it's not, though. Because the minute you realize your discipline has nothing to do with it, that's the only way you can do it. Oh, okay. Because the whole point is, like, I can't. If I had one, let's say you broke out that, because I was like beer.

Beer was good. Well, there it is. What do you got there? Whiskey. Whiskey was never my thing. I'd be okay. If it were te out that, because I was like beer. Beer was good. Well, there it is. What do you got there? Whiskey. Whiskey was never my thing. I'd be okay. If it were tequila, that'd be a different thing. If you, and also it was the 80s.

So if you had a kamikaze, remember those drinks? Oh yeah, I do remember those. Like it would go, then I'd be like, you know what? Would be really good to get would be some Coke. That would be great. To balance it out. Yeah, just to balance out. And you know what would be really good to get would be some Coke. That would be great. To balance it out. Yeah, just to balance it out. It's no big deal.

It's no big deal, and it's good for you. If you get the Rockstar Coke, that stuff's not even bad for you. That's what I'm saying. It's not even bad for you. Mick Jagger does it, okay? Look at Keith Richards. He's fine. Look at Keith Richards. Look at Jack Nicholson.

Those guys are doing great. Look at their do it. They're the biggest stars in the world. Jack Nicholson is fat, too. How bad could it be doing great. Look at their do it. They're the biggest stars in the world. Jack Nicholson is fat too. How bad could it be? How bad could it be? It's good for your memory. Probably.

And it's really good if you want to talk a lot. And successful people do it. A lot of successful people do it. And it's not addicting. Oh. No. They just enjoy it. Yes.

So that was what we thought. You know, that's what, you know, that's just the Gordon Gekko era. And then the hounds of hell will be released. Once I got that good little concoction going, that good little mixy mixerson. Well, it had to be hard to be a young, really famous, really good looking guy during the age of no internet. And, you know, the world was a wild place. I mean, you were really famous in the 80s. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I mean, you know, all of it, look, all the mistakes that I made, all the things that I learned got me to where I am today and I could not be happier. And I needed some fucking comeuppance and I needed some of that humbling and stuff. On the other side of it is like, what's the point of being fucking famous today? Really?

I don't know if there's a point. I know, right? I don't know. I mean, forget the lack of privacy, the lack of like crazy fun, which you can't have. Right. Everybody's lying in wait. I saw an article written about Leonardo DiCaprio, and it was just about how he dates young girls and how gross it is that he's dating a girl who's 25.

Like, 25's a woman, you fuck. Right. What is wrong? He's a good-looking man. He's wealthy and happy and successful. Oh, my God. He dates someone who's young and man. He's wealthy and happy and successful. Oh my God. He dates someone who's young and vibrant. There must be something wrong with him.

Meanwhile, if a woman does it, nobody gives a shit. They celebrate her. You go, Kate Beckinsale. You go take those 21 year olds down. That's right. Rope them, wrangle them, ride them. Rope them and go. Send them off.

Kick them in the ass and pack their lunch and send them off. off it should be it should be equal opportunity everywhere that's not though right when when it's a woman they look at it like she's just she's doing her thing she's having a good time but a man it's like he's abusing his power that leonardo has power over those young ladies i figure like if you're if you're you know leo or bieber or any of those like young like you know like this is like what you part of coming of age yes figuring is figuring out what you want in life and you know when you do that you're going to do weird shit good shit bad shit well that's you know whenever everybody would if anybody would try to judge someone like that like bieber in particular right because he was really really young when he got famous i mean it's insane and you know that whole thing that that theory that

at whatever however old you are when you get famous that that like freezes you in carbonite emotionally and and and intellectually well that makes sense with child stars right anybody i mean yes but anyway it's also that thing of like if you ever noticed that um before like you get famous the people who were famous to you then fast forward a hundred years or whatever and like maybe they haven't done as much and you have but when you meet them you think they're the most famous crazy crazy, successful person. It's the same type of thing. If I were to meet Dr. Smith from Lost in Space, I'd be like, no fucking way. Doctors.

Do you know what I mean? So it's funny how time. I met Lee Majors. I was in my glory. That's what I'm saying. I was like, it's a $6 million man. I can't believe it. He's real.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cheech and Chong. When I met those guys, I was like, I can't believe they're real. I can't believe it he's real right yeah yeah yeah cheech and chong when i met those guys i was like i can't believe they're real i can't believe i'm meeting them yeah you get you get frozen in your your own your own perspective well when you get older and you become famous very few people can have this conversation right but when you get famous and

you meet famous people to me it's still weird like when I met you today. I was like hello Rob Lowe Senior movies, but I'm more normal with it than when I was young when I was young and I would meet like I remember the First time I was on the set of news radio, and I met Phil Hartman. I was so weirded out I was like he's right there This is Chris I hadn't met a lot of famous people back then only like a small handful And so to be like working with him and sit and he's sitting there i'm like i've seen you on tv by the way how great was phil he was amazing he was i had my scariest one of my scariest professional moments involved phil hartman i was uh i was hosting the show on

saturday night live and phil and phil had a character called mace that he did reoccurring character and mace was a hard, a reoccurring character. And Mace was a hard-bitten convict. And he lived in it. Obviously, he was serving life. So whenever they had pretty boy hosts, they would throw, of course, me into a cell with Mace. Hey, turn around there, chicken legs. So that was like the predicate.

And I just remember, apropos of nothing nothing it was the week that the lumbata dance was a big deal oh jesus that tells you how long ago it was and so yeah so so mace and i were doing the lumbata in a prison cell and the whole sketch built towards um a a uh a punch line and for whatever reason i blew the setup line like like blue blew it like there's no there's now no end there you go look there we go look at him hey look at you chicken legs um and so there was no so i had to ad lib something really, really, really, really quickly. It felt like time stretched out and his eyes got huge. And I ad libbed something and it worked and it got a really big laugh.

And I think that that's when – what sort of sealed my relationship with Lorne Michaels because I was able to – I came back backstage and was like, you're really Houdini, aren't you? That's got to be terrifying to do that show. To do it live. It's the best. If I could have been a not ready for primetime player, I would have. I mean, that would have been the dream. I think that's the dream. How much preparation do you have to do for that show? Like, how many times

do you rehearse one of those sketches? What people don't really realize about being a host is it's the host's show. You can take as much control over it as you want, and most people don't really realize about being a host is it's the host show. Like you can take as much control over it as you want. And most people don't. I, just being stupid and naive, did and always did and sat in on the writers all night, write all night with all the different writers going from room to room. It was fucking heaven. Oh, wow.

But I was an SNL nerd. So it was like. That's cool. And then you do the dress rehearsal, of course, right before air. And it's a full show. It's exactly the same show. Full audience. It's the whole thing.

And then they cut things or not. oncologists who would deliver the bad news that people had stage 4 cancer but only with our mouths full of food so he'd be like that was oh yeah I'm sorry I'm eating chili this is hot it's burning the roof of my mouth sorry so sorry

you have stage 4 cancer oh ow so hot and spicy that was the total predicate of the sketch. That is a weird sketch. It was like so weird and so dark. Who pitched that one? And it made it to air. I mean, to dress.

Wow. Really crazy. It must have been a rough week. It was a rough week. I don't think cancer's funny. I guess you got a point there. Phil hated the competitive aspect of the show because he said that people were just mean to each other. That's one of the things that he enjoyed about sitcoms is that everybody was kind of working together.

He said one of the things about when you do SNL, everyone's battling to get their sketch on. Yeah. So they would sort of sabotage each other and there was a lot of backstabby shit going on and he didn't like it. And he was really hesitant to be friendly with people on the set. Like when he first got on the sitcom, it took a while for him to loosen up and realize this is a different thing because that environment was every man for himself. Yeah, it's funny. Ensembles are funny that way. Like there is a, an element of teamwork. It's like any team, there's an element of teamwork

that's intrinsic and you want, and it's great and hopefully it's there. But then there's that, that element of, of, you know, competitiveness, even with your sort of band of brothers, but you know, that, that gets toxic in a hurry with with the right with with the wrong culture and and maybe the wrong people in it but but snl it's like it is what it is there's only so many slots for sketches and there are only so many people writing and the best is when people try to tank them in the read-through like you read all of them on wednesday a big huge stack of them and people will like laugh really really hard at their own stuff or like roll their eyes. It's fun to watch.

Yeah, that's basically what he's talking about. That always made me really uncomfortable, the fake producer laugh. Like when you'd be doing like the third run through and they're like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Like, ugh. You're dead. But people don't even know what we're talking about so like when you do a table read we've done the most unrelatable podcast ever just now it's been great famous and young and good looking and um and doomsday prepping and uh earth roamers across yes this

is great you know there's there's nobody quite like a man of the people joe rogan and rothlo podcast let's face it when you do a run through folks you actually if you do a sitcom you act out the show and they want the actors to feel like what they're doing is funny because there's nothing weirder than doing something with no audience and not hearing any laughter at all so the the producers would laugh but they would do this fake laugh and it would throw you off so hard because it's like all you could it's jarring you like Yeah, so phony. It's I am I did a sitcom when I was little like I was 15 it was It was um it was so long ago that there were only 62 shows on

Television period holy shit 62 that was a not channel Fox not 62 channels on television, period. Holy shit. 62. So this is like pretty fox. Not 62 channels. 62 shows. 62 shows. By the way, how do you think I remember that there were, because we were number 62.

We were literally the lowest rated show on television. What was it called? A New Kind of Family. Might add something to that exciting title. That makes you just, I just sit up and take notice, don't you? A New Kind of Family. Might add something to that exciting title. That makes you just sit up and take notice, don't you?

What kind of family is it? It's a new kind. Oh, well, I'm going to watch then. What did they mean by a new kind? It was a revolutionary concept at the time that it was two divorced women pooling their resources. There you go. Look at you. And I'm sprouting a wonderful Karen Carpenter look.

Look at that hair, bro. Karen Carpenter. Look at the wings. I know. Was this your first acting project on television? Yeah, I was 15. Wow. So you never had a normal life?

Not really. So the new kind of family, it was bad. And it was opposite 60 Minutes, which was the number one show. And by the way, it was so horribly rated, we would get 19 million people watching. That's crazy. And it was a disaster. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that insane? Wow. That's crazy. And it was a disaster. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that insane? Wow! That's amazing.

19 million. That would be the number one show on television today. Oh, there's nothing that even comes close. That's so crazy. Isn't that amazing? That was a huge disaster. 19 million people. Wow. I'm the king of the new normal. Like, i'm on shows that get bad ratings that then become the new normal like like they they should i can't believe it it just in like i'm just right there at

those thresholds you're in and you're out you could say that to someone and not say what ranking it was and say when i was 15 i was on a show that had 19 million people watching it they'd be like holy shit what was it i know that's the biggest show ever. Yeah, it's like a number one show today Like what is the top shows like modern family? Is that number one? Like what's the number one sitcom today? Do you would have been well big bang has been off for what a year? Yeah or two years It would definitely be big bang and they'd get like I think eight million. I Think was what it was and that shit it's shocking somewhere on netflix they're popping up now right that's the problem netflix won't tell you shit they don't tell you nothing they say well you're doing great yeah or they don't tell

you they don't tell you yeah and then they cancel you yeah they like you they say we're really happy like what does that mean we're really really happy we're really happy. Like, what does that mean? We're really, really happy. We're really happy. And like, how happy? Yeah. No one knows. Just really happy. There's a lot of guesswork involved. That's insane, though.

That's so many people. And it was the last rated show. Crazy. The last rated show. And then they figured they shut us down to rejigger it because they figured they could make it better somehow and stop the audience slide. And we came back and that the other family had been replaced.

What? Yeah, they replaced it without saying anything and made it an African-American family figuring that that would be more interesting for the storytelling or what have you and Same name? No, they at least played different people. NCIS and it gets 15 million. Wow, and that's number one. That's the number one show. Number one by a 15 million. Wow. And that's number one. That's the number one show.

Number one by a long shot. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. So when we came back and had the new cast member, the daughter was Janet Jackson, which was fun. Okay. So you were still on it? I was still on it. yeah. And Janet was all of like 12 or 13 and acting. And so she was your sister? She played the other, she was in the other family. The other family.

The Shearing House, yeah. Okay. So there was two families and one was African American and one was your family. Yeah. That's what it was. That was the change that the network made over a week. And they didn't tell anybody? No.

You just turned it on one week and now why would they do that? Oh, I love network executives. There are people that are making creative decisions that have never been creative in their fucking life and it's amazing and they're out there pushing buttons and pulling strings and you know uh aaron sorkin tells a great story about the pilot of the west wing which is sort of it's it's a i mean he wrote a great script so it's one of the great pilots and it you know know, and there's a through line of, uh, refugees from Cuba, braving all odds on rickety boats to come to America for America's promise. And that's sort of a thread that's playing through it. And so in the white house, we're talking about it and

president Bartlett talks about it in a way to inspire people. And it's really, really beautiful. And, uh, the network was like was like, listen, we love it. We think the script is great. But we think at the end that the characters need to get into a boat and go to Cuba and pull them out of the water. Don't you just know that's true with your network? Don't you just know that like. Oh, my God. Because really all you guys are doing is talking about it.

I mean, don't you think it's more dramatic if it's actually on the wall? And you know, you want to see those people pulled out. You know, we think the script's pretty good the way it is. What did Sorkin say to this? He didn't do it, thank God. He'd take deep breaths. He never took a network note, not once. Wow, that's why it was good. There was never a representative for the network ever on the set, it, thank God. He'd take deep breaths. He never took a network note, not once. Wow, that's why it was good.

There was never a representative for the network ever on the set, ever, not once, ever. That's very fortunate. News Radio, the show that I was on with Phil, wasn't successful. It was a great show, though. We were number 88th in the ratings. And my friend Lou Morton, he was one of the writers, and every week he would come in with a new t-shirt on where he would write the number on the shirt because we moved around like nine times. We were always in different, and this was pre-internet

so you had to look at TV Guide to find out when news radio was on. Jesus. You know, so like one night we're Tuesday and then we're Sunday and so he shows up with a t-shirt on that said 88. I'm like, fucking 88? He's like, 88. I'm like, 88. We're the 88th show.

Jesus. I was 62 yeah but 88 was like a million people watching back then it was not it's not it's not good it's not 19 million and see but look at all it led you to where you are today that's the thing is all that stuff leads leads somebody if they're if they're paying attention to where you want to be. If you keep moving. Yeah. You can't be stuck and you can't be scared. Yes. You cannot be stuck and scared. That's the thing about show business, right?

It's like this weird world of I wonder how this is going to be received. I wonder how this is going to work. Then you're fucked. You're done though. Once you get into that head, you're done. Yeah. Do your best. And if it doesn't work, shrug your shoulders.

Move on. Keep moving. Yeah. If they let you. Yeah. If they let you. head you're done yeah do your best and if it doesn't work shrug your shoulders move on keep moving yeah if they let you yeah if they let you that's the weird one right when you like watch a movie and you're like oh where the fuck did that guy go like who's the guy from the mummy what the fuck's his name brendan frazier yes that guy fucking guy was huge oh by the way brendan frazier crashed my sat Night Live closing. You know at the end where they go, good night, everybody. This has been great.

Thanks for watching. And everybody's there. He showed up and was screaming the name of his movie that was opening that weekend. Bedazzled. No. Bedazzled. No. I was like, what the fuck?

What's happening? Who are you? Why are you? Brendan Fraser? What are you doing here? Bedazzled! Whoa. Don't know.

To this day, I don't know what it was about. Maybe that's what sunk him. Bedazzled! Maybe that's what did it to him. It could have been. That mentality. Like, that's not a healthy mindset. I think what happened probably is they were going to work him into a sketch that got cut.

To promote Bedazzled. Probably some studio shit. Some back room, smoke filled room shit. And then he was like, well, I'm going to go out there. And he's probably a little drunk. I mean, y'all Bedazzled anyway. Damn. Bedazzled.

But that guy was a giant movie star. He was huge. Massive. Huge. And the mummy was massive. Massive. Massive. I just watched it.

I told you me and my family watched Tommy Boy. No. Yes, we did. We went on, we were doing family movie night because of the quarantine. We watched like almost every night. We watched a new movie. I watched all the Adam Sandler movies, watched a shitload of Eddie Murphy movies. We watched the Mummy, watched a couple of the Mummies, and we watched Tommy Boy.

How did Tommy Boy stand up? Fucking holds up. Does it? Holds up funny movie man funny no that's awesome god damn chris farley was good oh bro he was an and a great actor my my among all my regrets about chris's passing was where he would have gone as a as a as an actor because he was cute as spades spades the same. They're acting in that movie. Forget the funny, which is great. But like they're like legitimate acting moments in that movie. Yes.

And I think that's why it it has the staying power. But Chris was really going to develop into a into a real serious actor. A good a good one I think he was such a fucking powerhouse when he would go ape shit look at you guys look at those two idiots I like the part in the movie where Spade looks at me and goes hey Lee Harvey

because my hair does look like Lee Harvey Oswald he was awesome man that's the cow tipping scene which I was I pitched to the writers. They had never heard of it, and it made it into the movie. Who was your mom slash girlfriend again? Bo Derek.

That's right. Well, that was a great thing because she's Bo Derek, and her husband John, famous John Derek, was very protective of her. And she hadn't worked in a long time and he made her cut all her hair off the day before she showed up on the set of Tommy Boy so what we thought we were getting Bo Derek from from 10 with the hair and she showed up with hair that's basically my my length now cuz cuz John made her do it why did he make her do it i mean you can do the math i think he was like i want to keep you up in san yanez riding horses with me don't need you to

be a movie star again oh but she was so lovely she's the best she's a really smart um really smart um just great woman and um i mean i got to kiss beau derrick i mean what you know i know for people who don't know like what she was in 10 oh my god with she was the original white girl with corn rose when it was okay you couldn't get canceled for that back yeah she would have been that whole she would have been canceled in a heartbeat she was the original um gg hadid how about that as a reference is that my cool and young now I missed it I've heard that name before but I know is her dad got sued because he built a house that's too big with no permits yeah you know no I know nope

absolutely no permits it's way too big and the neighbors are worried it's gonna fall on them yeah exactly looks like a UFO it's still there oh yeah of course I haven't even figured out what to do with it. Yeah, I think there's lawsuits Don't yeah, look at bow back in the day. Whoo How about the one on the left go to that one can't nips? Pow I'm going back. I'm gonna go back and do a deeper dive on this She was hot as fuck. Well perfect bone structure, right? Yeah, she was she was amazing and Tommy you know the thing about Farley was um right yeah she was she was amazing and tommy you know the thing about farley was um he he and spade used to fight over me like i was the girl probably because let's face it i kind of look like a girl

in certain lighting um and uh they'd be like i heard you were in the jacuzzi of the rob last night yeah well you didn't call me well and, and they would like fight. It was very funny and sweet. One night I took the gang out to Barbarian's Steakhouse in Toronto. Great steak. I don't know if they're still there. Chris ordered two bone-in, two bone-in steak, porterhouse steaks. Ate both of them. But on top of each bite, he put a cube of butter.

but on top of each bite he put a cube of butter and when i looked at him like what the fuck are you doing he was like it needs a hat so if you want to put a hat on your steak some people just genuinely don't give a fuck no fucks given yeah. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, he's a wild man. I met him once on the set of News Radio. He's partying with Andy Dick. Oh, boy. He showed up gray like wet cardboard. He looked gray. And I'm like, hey, man.

He's like, eh. He was gone. Oh. It was sad. It was weird. He had gray skin. And I remember thinking, Jesus Christ, Chris Farley has gray skin. Like, what's going on? Like, he was sweaty and just all fucked up. Yeah, he had major, major demons. And a lot of us really worked, you know, worked out for, you know, but, you know, it's some people can't, they can't make that leap man. The thing about him though is Fucking I always wonder about guys like that that are so powerful like is it the demons that made him so good

He was so good. So good. He would go apeshit. I mean he had the fucking horsepower he had it was so stunning You have these scenes when he would just go fucking crazy. It was so fun I would wonder like what is is that same thing what makes him i mean because it was so real is that what made him just go crazy with coke and go crazy with everything else i mean i think i think like normal people like i don't see a lot of normal people drawn well why would any normal person want to be in entertainment? Right. Why would they? Right. So I think just by default, damaged people or people with – more articulately, people with a hole to fill are drawn to entertainment to fill the hole.

And some of the people have other damage too, rage, anger, whatever it is. But without a question, the more normal someone is, I know, like unfortunately, the less entertaining. Yeah, right. Do you ever find that though? Yes. You're at dinner or whatever and they're like, I'm this and they're like really, really nice and really, really decent. And I go, I wish you were crazy and damaged like me because then you'd be really then we could have a fun conversation buddy yeah well that's absolutely the case with comedians like my my favorite people are all completely fucked up

have you ever met can you think of a normal decent well-rounded unfucked up person who's hilarious no i'll tell you real quick right no no no the humor is a big part of humor is saying things that are radically inappropriate right but maybe accurate do you think do you think that our the culture where everybody is so sensitive today is is it's got to be hard to be I think it's harder to be funny. You can make blazing sounds. There's so many movies you couldn't make now. Right. Or jokes you couldn't tell. Sure. I mean most of Monty Python's

movies. I mean so many. We were watching some old Eddie Murphy movies and just just movies from the 2000s you couldn't make today. Eddie Murphy was a is still i mean what a stud oh my god he's amazing fucking we're talking about norbit i'm like norbit is a massively underrated movie that is a hilarious movie and if i looked on rotten tomatoes i think it got like

fucking 13 or something like that i'm like i don't get it. How did you miss this? I was crying laughing. Like wheezing at certain scenes. Nutty Professor? Nutty Professor 2 is fucking terrible. And also The Clumps? The Clumps, that's 2. That's the second one.

Okay, I'm sorry. Nutty Professor is insane. Nutty Professor is insane. Nutty Professor 2 is terrible. All those, he plays all those characters? Yeah, well he's amazing. It's just the script doesn't work in Nutty Professor's insane. Nutty Professor 2's terrible. All those, he plays all those characters? Yeah, well, he's amazing. It's just the script doesn't work in Nutty Professor 2. And then they got rid of Jada Pickett-Smith and replaced her with someone else, too.

It's like, what happened? Right, yeah, yeah. That was a big part of the first movie. He's so good. But Nutty Professor 1 is excellent. But he's just boring. Have you revisited the stand-up specials of Eddie's in the leather suits? I mean, I've seen them all multiple times.

I haven't revisited them in the last few years. They're worth having a look again. He's one of the greatest of all time. It's crazy that he hasn't done stand-up in 30 years. As long as you've not been drinking, he hasn't been doing stand-up. Jesus. Maybe there's two. Well, they were related.

I used to run with Eddie back in the day a little bit. It was pretty fun. He's amazing. I mean, it's really every comic that I know wants him to do stand-up again. Every comic. Like, there was a thing we talked about on the podcast before, but there was a thing that he did where he was accepting some award, and he was on stage, and he did this piece about Bill Cosby. Because him and Bill Cosby always had feuds.

Like, it was on one of his older specials. I think it was on Raw where him and Richard Pryor had a conversation because Bill Cosby called him and chastised him about delirious, about using bad words. And so he did this whole thing where Bill Cosby called him and then he called Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was like, do the people laugh? Do you get paid? We'll tell Bill to have

a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. Yes, I remember that. Have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. I remember that. For him, that was painful because, look, every comic was a Bill Cosby fan. They found out what the fuck he was really all about.

So for him to get a phone call from Bill Cosby instead of saying you're amazing i fucking love what you're doing i'm i'm in your corner congratulations go get him instead he gets you should stop saying bad words and it's so anyway years later he hasn't done stand-up in forever and he accepts this award and talks about what because they took back bill cosby's honorary doctorate and all these different, they took awards away from him. And he does this whole routine about Bill getting his awards taken away.

And it's fucking brilliant. And he hasn't done stand-up in 30 years. And you look at him, you're like, Jesus Christ, if that guy did stand-up right now, he'd have the biggest Netflix special on earth. And it would probably be an hour of fucking gold. Just straight gold he just doesn't i mean he's talking about doing it he's talked about doing it i bet pre-covid he was talking about doing it i mean obviously covid fucked it up for everything it's really hard to do a show now right and um you know i don't i don't i don't know where it's gonna go i hope

he does it though but he's he's a he's a special talent a very very unique talent. Yeah, and a wonderful enigma. Yeah. He's so nice. He's one of those people that people project things on to Eddie. Do you know what I mean? Like what he's like, what he is, what he isn't, because he's just one of those guys. And he's kind of an enigma. He's kind of unknowable, but he's such a good dude.

Well, he's so talented. I mean, we all grew up with him, you know, 48 hours. Dude, 48 hours is the shit. The shit. Him and Nick Nolte. Nick Nolte is so... I mean, that movie, I mean, that's the ultimate. Buddy cop movie.

There's the Danny Glover one with Mel, but to me, it's all about 48 hours. I wonder if you can make a buddy cop movie anymore, now that everybody hates cops. There they are. Look at them. Could you make a buddy cop movie today? Would people- They don't want you to. They wouldn't want you to.

No, they don't want you to. They wouldn't want you to. No, they don't want you to for sure. Like cop movies. That was... That's one of the biggest genre. Right? There's a screening of Kindergarten Cop that was supposed to be

in Portland or somewhere this weekend that was canceled because people said that it was showing cops in a good light or something like that. I hope they get robbed.

I hope everybody says they get robbed. Can you everybody says they get robbed. Can you imagine? Fuck. You gotta watch... You ever see Nolte and... I don't really hope they get robbed, by the way. These are just jokes.

You ever seen Nolte and Q and A? The movie Q and A? Yes, yes. Now that I remember that, yeah. Where he plays a racist cop? Yes. Oh, he's amazing, man. You know, there's a fucking movie that's not that good.

It's called Warrior. It's like this arts movie um that was a few years ago and nick nolte plays this guy who is a trainer of one of the fighters and he's in he's the father of one of the fighters as well and he's this alcoholic and he's all fucked up and he has this this scene where he breaks down and he's crying and weeping and he just go god damn if you forget this is it right down and he's crying and weeping, and you just go, God damn. If you forget, this is it right here. He's so good. He's so good. That outfit? That's the outfit he wears to go to the market in Malibu.

Oh, yeah, man. I ran into him at Fry's. Look at him right there. I mean, this scene, man. That's also how he orders at McDonald's. Screaming, red-faced. I ran into him at Fry's Electronics. He was, oh, hey, Joe.

He was buying some motherboard or some shit for his kid. He's just amazing. Yeah, he's amazing. So I got to tell you how much I'm loving your podcast. I love it. It's great. Thank you. I'm a big fan.

Thank you. And one of the things I love about, because I'm doing my own now and I'm learning from the best and the best would be you, is it's just literally anything and everything that makes you like you're curious about. And I love that. So I know it because I've been paying attention. I know you're curious about space. Let's talk for a minute because this week Elon Musk, he did the big thing that was fun to watch. But isn't it funny how excited we all are that we just replicated something we did 50 years ago? Well, even better, though.

They replicated something in a much more improved way where it can actually come back and land and it's reusable. That's the difference. Don't you think, though, we have to have – there has to be a secret space program. There has to be. Do you think so? Well, here – okay, let's just go through the logic of it. Okay. This is what happens at nighttime when I have a cigar.

You sure you don't do drugs? I know. Do you want a cigar? Do you smoke cigars? I do smoke cigars. You want one? I was going to bring one and I forgot, but hell yeah. Here we go.

Beautiful. At least we can get some kind of drugs. I know. Let's go. Let's fucking go. By the way, don't – Jamie's going to bring one and I forgot, but hell yeah. Here we go. Beautiful. At least we can get some kind of drugs. I know. Let's go. Let's fucking go. By the way, I enjoy watching people take drugs. I do. Do you?

Yeah, because- What do you enjoy about it? I have a very expensive wine cellar. I don't drink. You don't drink at all? You just have the wine for other folks? For guests. Wow.

Yeah. But could you have like a glass of wine or are you just a deep end kind of a guy? Nope. Nope. Nope. Every single person I know who either you have the ism of alcoholism or you don't. And if you have come to terms with the fact that you have it, the day where you go, you know what?

I'm going to live in Europe for a while. And gosh, I mean, a glass of red wine at my birthday is not gonna i'm not gonna do i'm not gonna do heroin anymore that's what brought me to my knees but a glass of red wine literally you can put a fucking stopwatch on it and it might not be in a week and it might not be in a month and it might not even be in a year but i assure you you'll read about them in the paper like biting a cop in their stomach and jumping off of a roof or 100 i've been in this game 30 years i've never seen it go any way other than that never i like to believe that someone out there that can do it just like i like to believe some people can walk tight ropes between two buildings yeah nor people who

aren't alcoholics they can't do it fuck yeah what do we got here bro this is good okay why can i not open this there we go got it hell i would have brought i would have i would have brought my own i don't know well i just have this box here from my friend mike binder oh you know mike yep. He's doing this comedy store documentary and he bought me a box of cigars. What company is this? Do you know this company? They're great.

There's nothing better than a cigar when you're fasting. Because you're good and fucked up. Are you fasting right now? Yeah. What do you do? The intermittent thing? I do intermittent and then I do every other day a 24-hour. Really? Which I got from Kimmel. Remember that moment where all of a sudden Kimmel didn't look like Kimmel anymore? Lost like 80 pounds.

Yeah, and I was like, and I did, and like, you know, in the commercial breaks, the band's playing and people are screaming, hey, why do you look so good? And he's like, I don't eat every other day. I was like, that's got to be more. The word went right back. And I never got to like finish the conversation with him. But I've since learned about it and I did.

I've done it and it's been great. What's the benefits? Honestly, I think at the end of the day, the benefit is just it's just an easy way to keep the calories down. But I find I'm more focused and actually have more energy. That's crazy. If you think about taking a whole day off of eating. But here's the thing is it's it sounds worse than it is because you eat dinner. So the day goes from dinner to dinner.

Right. So there's not an active day that I'm not eating. Oh, OK. Right. It's still to dinner. Right. So there's not an active day that I'm not eating. Oh, okay. Right? It's like a meal a day. But it's still 24 hours. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a meal. That's what Jack Dorsey does. Jack Dorsey, the CEO of Twitter, he eats one meal a day. And he said he realizes that a lot of, that lighter sucks, unfortunately. Do we have another lighter? No, I'm good, right?

Maybe. But I don't know if it's around. good right no i'm good we're good to go this is good i like this they're good right yeah really good yeah um i do intermittent i do either 14 or 16 hours but um and then you're you're like uh you know low carb low sugar mostly meat mostly what i eat is meat. Like almost entirely meat. I eat some fruit. Veggies. This whole month, I'm barely eating any vegetables.

What? This is animal-based August. Animal-based August? Yeah, you know, plant-based. I'm plant-based. Well, there's animal-based August. Mostly what I'm eating is meat. Does the vegan army come for you?

Oh, they've come. They've come for me. I give them hugs. Look, those animals are going to die. I'll send them videos of wolves eating elk alive. You know, if you want to see that. It's better if I kill them. Trust me.

They don't live forever. And do you fish at all? Yeah, I love fishing. Yeah, my son, Matthew Lowe, is a world-class fisherman. Do you fly fishing? No, it's all deep sea. It's all deep sea stuff, yeah. And we have a boat

and we go out and we, I mean, it's like the sashimi fish tacos. He has a commercial fisherman's license. Really? He's got a law degree and a commercial

fisherman's license. That's fucking balanced. It's a well-rounded young man. You did a good job. Congratulations. Yeah, it's good shit. And then my other son is a writer on 911

Lone Star no kidding yeah wow dude you pulled it off I did so it's being a dad you got kids being dad is uh it's a full-time job but I love it I'm one of those people that like for whatever reason I knew it was what I was born to do immediately and I devoted every fucking minute to it and loved it and it it paid off and my my boys are you know i have great michelle's a great wife and great partner for me but um i i love seeing like that kind of time investment pay off yeah no it's beautiful because then they become these sustainable, fascinating human beings. How old are your kids? I have a 23-year-old, I have a 10-year-old, and a 12-year-old. That's kind of good.

Do you love going through this? Because mine are 24 and 26. So the notion of going back and having another crack at it kind of sounds kind of cool. It is kind of cool. What's weird about babies and just humans, they're so different right out of the box. There's so much study on what makes a personality, what makes a human being, whether it's nature or nurture. And people who are parents can tell you there's certain aspects of a kid's personality that they're just born with. You see them with it as a baby, like right out of the box. And like,

you know, one year in they're different, two years, like they're so different. It's so fast. Like sometimes my daughters will say something to me. It's just, and I just get so stunned just talking to them like this. I remember when you were this tiny little thing and now you and I are sitting here and we're having a conversation about space or about mortality or about what I think God is or about, you know, why do people act mean? You know, I was having this conversation with my daughter, with my 12 year old about mean people. And I'm like, believe me, it seems like they're just mean,

but they're only mean because they're hurting. That's why people are mean. They feel terrible. So they want you to feel terrible. Right. And we were just having this weird conversation about emotions and about where it comes from and, you know, their family's broken up and because of that, they wish that things were normal so they make up lies or when other people are doing well, they get angry at other people. And we were just talking through this and in the middle of it, I'm talking to her

and I'm thinking, I remember when you were so small. I know. You were this tiny little thing and now here you are, this 12-year-old who's like, we're having this intense conversation about emotions and the development of human beings and how to be more compassionate and how there's this instinct to go, fuck her. And I'm like, I know you have that feeling, but you've got to fight that feeling.

Nobody has that feeling more than me, that fuck you feeling. I've got a lot of that. But you've got to keep it locked up. It's not good for you. It doesn't do you any good either. When you're like Fuck you that you're just really saying fuck yourself It's not helping you because you're developing anger instead of developing forgiveness like you develop this anger towards a person where it's better

It's hard, but it's better to try to understand why they're that way and why they're lashing out at you Yeah And when you do that what I was explaining to her is like, it'll be ineffective. Their mean stuff to you will be ineffective. It doesn't work anymore because you know who you are. So if you know who you are, it'll bother you that they're trying to do it, but you won't change your feelings about yourself. If you don't have a good sense of personal sovereignty, someone can change your feelings about yourself.

I remember when I was young, someone could insult me, and I would think that they were right. I'd be like, oh, God, I am a loser. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, I'm a loser. Shit. And I'd go home, and I'd feel terrible, and I'd feel like a loser. But if someone does it to you when you have sovereignty, you're like, ah, that that feels gross this person's trying to make me feel bad But doesn't change who I am I know who I am

You you gain an understanding through struggle, and we were having this conversation I remember thinking God is so weird like that people just sort of pop out of vaginas You know you have sex person gets developed they pop out of a giant next thing You know they're 12 when you're sitting across the dinner table, just you and her just chit-chatting. It's God. So it's amazing. It's amazing. It's true.

I always tell my kids that great phrase about bitterness and anger and bitterness is it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop dead. Yes, yes, yes. I love that statement. It's a great one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, worldview, right? Optimism, positivity, rejection of victimhood, all that stuff is so important, I think, in development. Yeah, they're tools, too. They're tools for success, because there's so many people that contain they

hold on to that stuff what's that other expression that anger is a poison that kills the vessel that holds it mm-hmm yeah that's great yeah but they do but you can you could use them as tools to understand people you know like that feeling that you get it's a tool and that the understanding of like how to manage that is a tool like you can you can use it and you could understand people better and then you'll recognize it in yourself better and it'll prevent you from making some catastrophic mistakes you know one of the things about like angry bitter spiteful people it's like they rarely get anything done they They really accomplish anything good.

They always have this bitter, horrible feeling that they're carrying around with them. Yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer in therapy and personal digging and growth and stuff like that. I mean, it's part and parcel with my recovery. Recovery is not for everybody, nor should it be. But I think therapy could and should be. I think it should be like going and get your oil checked. Do you do like AA meetings and the whole deal? I, you know, it's an anonymous program, Joe.

Oh, you can't even say it? The AA Gestapo will come and get me. Would they really? If you say you go to here's why it's in what they call the traditions right they're literally like it's like the constitution of aa it's in the constitution because the theory is if i were to say um aa works i go to aa and then god forbid i slip then the person who might have been on the fence about going to AA will go, well, I know that's bullshit. That guy was in AA and he slipped. That's the theory about it.

That's a weird theory because exercise works, right? You get in shape and then you can just decide to eat Twinkies and you get out of shape. It doesn't mean that exercise doesn't work. eat Twinkies and you get out of shape, but it doesn't mean that exercise doesn't work. Listen, there are people that, you know, true traditionalists don't even like people talking with the amount that I talk about recovery publicly for that reason. But my thing is, in this world, addiction is such a fucking killer. And there are so many families suffering from it that and and and every teenager is going to have to have figure out their relationship with drugs and alcohol every there isn't one who isn't going to have to and a lot of people are going to fuck that up

and some aren't but the more that conversation is out there and that people can talk about it openly is better. So I kind of am more public about it just because it's changed my life, saved my life. I don't have alcoholism in my family nor personally, but I admire people who talk about recovery. I think it's important because I think especially someone like you because you're a very famous public figure. And when you talk about addiction and your own struggles, people say, well, fucking Rob Lowe has a problem with booze? Like, okay, this is like a thing. Right. It's part of being a person.

Yeah, for sure. I think it's very valuable. I think you talking about it is very valuable. And I think it's honorable. Well, thanks. I mean, and I get a lot of – I get a lot out of it because inevitably, you know, I meet people who are earlier on their journey and it reminds me of how bad it can be if you don't keep an eye on it. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Because I'm just one of those people.

It's like, you know, if it says take two aspirin, then I immediately think, well, then five has got to be fucking great then you should i mean that's that is the way my brain works do you think that that's from becoming famous when you're very young like what what is the earliest big thing that you did was the earliest big project that you did i mean the it was probably that that uh karen carpenter look alike look thing i had going on but like a big big, well, that was sort of, but I mean, you said that was not. The big knockout, that put me on the teen magazines though. And that, I went from like a theater geek who couldn't, like none of the cool girls gave a shit about. Really?

Yeah, because I was a theater geek. But you're such a good looking fellow. No, I was pretty. I didn't look like the fucking football playing. They all wanted the football players and the beach volleyball players. And in that culture, like, youth entertainment wasn't a thing. There was no MTV. There was no Us magazine.

There was no Nickelodeon. There was none of it. So, like, it was kind of this, like, thing that— Stars to watch in 87. Look at you. There's none of it. So like, it was kind of this like thing that starts to watch an 87. Look at you. 87 is late though. I mean, you can, you can roll that thing back to 79 and get some good shit.

Duran Duran. Look at Michael J. Fox. Look at him. The monkeys were still around. What? Duran Duran. You know,

it's funny how in Europe, like things that are almost like campy here are still cool. Like Mirko Krokop is one of the baddest motherfuckers of all time. He's this kickboxer. He used to come out to Duran Duran. That was his walkout song. Come out to Wild Boils. Wild Boys.

Wild Boys. Yeah. I mean, he's a fucking straight up killer. He's a terrifying human being. And he would come out to Duran Duran. That's unbelievable. That's awesome. I loved it.

I was like, that is the scariest human being on earth. That's a fucking Duran Duran fan. Who's the guy? This is going to be like, who's the baseball player? And he's like, Babe Ruth. Yeah, that's him. But who's the fucking gnarly motherfucker from Hawaii? BJ Penn. Oh, yeah.

BJ. Yeah. So BJ, when I met Oh, yeah. BJ. Yeah. So BJ, when I met BJ, and I don't know anything really much about the sport, he was like, you know that before every match I watch Youngblood. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. What? Are you kidding me? BJ is crazy.

He's crazy. He's so crazy. So fucking nuts. That's funny. Yeah, but that, I don't think. So you don't think they're connected? Becoming very famous at an early age sort of exacerbates – because I would imagine – It blows it up, but you've got to have it in you.

Okay. You have to have it in you anyway. Is it a family thing? Is it genetic? It's partially genetics. It's in the family for sure, 100%. It's in my family, both sides of the family. But some people don't have it some

people do um and um what what exacerbates it is the the access the you know all the stuff that you'd think it's like jet like fame and money and all that is jet fuel for addiction and then on the other side of it is there's always in the back of your mind that if if it works out, if I get this movie or get this part or whatever, then I'll feel better about myself. And then you get it and you don't. And then you're really fucked. So that's why when people go, he had it all. I don't understand.

I go, I understand. I understand perfectly. His dreams came true and they didn't fucking change who he was. Yeah. Did you ever have imposter syndrome oh yeah right i i have a lot of syndromes but i'm not sure i've had that one does you think you didn't didn't have because you were famous early on maybe i mean it was like a normal thing no because because i also had a vision when i was a kid that i was going to do what i was going to do like it was oh yeah like i it was like i knew it how i knew it as as sure as i'm sitting here smoking a cigar with you i knew it i knew i was going to be an actor i knew it was going to be successful and

i knew it was going to happen and and here's the thing. I was too young and too stupid to know otherwise. And no one told me different. I'm so grateful that I didn't have someone telling me that 99% of the people in the Screen Actors Guild, these are people who are acting, who've made it. They're in Hollywood and they're acting. 99% of them can't support themselves as an actor. Really? That's a true statistic. That's a crazy number. Now, if somebody had told me that, it might have fucked me up and maybe my vision would have weakened. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting, right?

Like, if someone gives you, like, someone made it, you made it. Obviously, there's movies. People are making it. Like I say to my kids, listen, I don't know what the odds are, but somebody movies people are making it like i say to my kids is it listen i don't know what the odds are but somebody's got to do it why not yes that's a good way to look at it yeah yeah i mean that's that that was the thing i so i had that which is both a curse and a blessing because i knew i didn't have to go through the thing that so many people do where they don't really know where they fit in the world and don't know what their gift is

and don't know what they want to do so you lives. So you never wavered. You had this idea. How old were you when you figured it out? Eight. I saw a local theater production in Dayton, Ohio of Oliver of all things. My parents must've known one of the actors and there were kids in it. And it was literally like out of a movie, like, oh, like the light hit me and the skies parted. And I went, I want to do that. And there was a sign up sheet for summer kid acting camp or whatever. And I go, I want to do that. My parents like, yeah, sure.

And I'm sure they thought it was like just camp or Little League or any other thing that a kid would. But I knew it was the beginning of a step of what I wanted to do. I was deadly serious about it. Wow. That's incredible. That's very fortunate because then you just have to work towards your path. Like so many people are like 30 and they don't know what they want to do with their life. They're doing something they don't enjoy. And they're like, I want to find something that I enjoy. And they don't know what that is. That's a tech.

Those conversations are terrifying to me. I've had conversations with people like, I just got to find what, what my thing is. I'm like, fuck man. It's hard. And that's, and that's, you know, my biggest fear for my sons is, you know, as a parent, you know, the, the goals and issues change with age and where they're in now it's all about, you know, jobs. Yeah. And, you know, as a parent, you know, the goals and issues change with age and where they are now. It's all about, you know, jobs. And, you know, we've had those, my favorites. So my youngest son, John Owen, was the youngest intern at the Eli Broad Stem Cell Laboratory in the University of San Francisco during his summers in high school. And in fact, was next to one of the scientists that won the Nobel Prize that year.

So he gets into Stanford, goes to Stanford, graduates with straight A's. And I'm thinking, this is, I've done it as a parent. He's done it. And then he comes back and goes, I want to be in show business. And I wanted thinking, I've done it as a parent. He's done it. And then he comes back and goes, I want to be in show business. And I wanted to kill myself. I was like, it was actually worse than I want to be in show business. It was worse because it was, I want to be an actor. And I wanted to publicly disembowel myself.

Isn't that crazy? You are a successful actor. You love doing it. But yet, you didn't want your kid to do it. Isn't that amazing? It's weird. It is really weird. And there's so much to sort of unpack underneath that.

Yeah. Well, I don't think you want your kids to be in pain, right? The uncertainty of it. Yeah. And I always used to read about this quote about Henry Fonda that to the day he died and he died with the Oscar for fucking on Golden Pond next to him. He thought he would never work again. Whoa. And I was like, that has to be bullshit. Guess what?

It's not. It's not. That's fucking heavy. But then the other thing I would get, and this is the other really weird thing, is I'd wake up in the middle of the night and go, oh, my instinct to beat every creative fucking instinct out of my children is now indicted them and sentenced them to a life of a drone in a cubicle. Ooh, way worse. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah like your instinct to protect them from uncertainty has led them to the certainty of doom and then you realize you know what they're going to be who they are and and johnny is a really talented writer and he's found his niche and

and ironically went right to work right out of Stanford. So it all kind of works out, you know, it really does. But we do as dads put our own fears and our own shit on our kids. Oh, yeah. There's no doubt. You know, I mean, if one of my kids told me they wanted to be a comic, I'd be terrified. Right? Plus, also, it's like i don't that there's there there's certain parts of comedy that are so painful like the bombing like i don't think i could be there if my kid was bombing it's i would feel it as much as them

do you remember a joke that you told once that bombed? Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, my God. You remember the joke or a joke? Dude, I've bombed a lot. I just can't believe that. I had George Lopez on my podcast two days ago, and he was talking about bombing.

But you're a fucking Fred Rogan. You're a Joe Rogan. He's fucking George Lopez. What the fuck? You guys don't bomb. You have to come up with new material. And if you're going to come up with new material, some of them are going to be duds. That's just how it is.

And also, you have to take chances if you want to expand. Like comedy, there's a bunch of things going on. There's you relating to the audience. There's them liking you. There's these concepts you're trying to flesh out. Especially in a workout room like the Comedy Store, you have to take chances. There's no way around it. And sometimes those chances fall flat on their face.

The good thing is through those painful failures, those are like the biggest springboards to improvement and growth. Every time I've ever had a bad set, my next set has been amazing. Because you just feel the sting and you prepare better. And also like I think my past bombings have prepared me to not bomb again because of the fact that I know what it feels like to suck. Dude. So I always explain it that it's like, in terms of what's bombing like, it's like sucking

a thousand dicks in front of your mother, except there's probably someone out it's like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother. Except, there's probably someone out there that likes sucking a thousand dicks in front of their mother. No one likes bombing. There's probably some guy who's just really into humiliation, but I don't think no one out there is into bombing. Oh, man. I just...

Yeah. But because it's like... Oh, well, listen. Listen. I will bet you that no one has bombed harder than me. Bro, that's not possible. I will... You need to come to the comics to open mic now. No, bro.

How is it possible that no one's bombed? By the way, your trusty savant next to us... Young Jamie? Will pull up... Did you do stand-up? He can pull up me bombing in front of a billion people what did you do the academy awards oh you hosted it well here's the thing so you talk about bombing my dick's bigger than your dick about bombing um i'm 24 24 years old.

I'm doing my movies. The Academy Awards ask me to do a big opening number for them. I'm like, holy fucking shit. Can we play it? Will we get pulled off of YouTube? God damn it.

I'll play it for us. Before you play it, I need to get a little context look context oh stop stop or I'll bomb again I'll bomb right now again so they say to me they go we want you to do and I'm like there's this high honor 86 okay hi hi honor fucking cat sure and I should have, like, probably thought it through, because the idea didn't sound great to me. But it's the Academy Awards. You know, they know better than I do. It's their show. And the idea is it's going to be an homage to old-time Hollywood.

And one of the earliest stars in Hollywood was Snow White, the animated figure. So we're going to have a girl obviously playing Snow White and we're going to do a duet because it's a big opening musical number. The Oscars always used to open with musical numbers before there were monologues.

Really? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yes. This ended it. It's ended it. It ended it. So I'm like, okay. Okay. Me and Snow White, great. Okay.

And anyway, Marvin Hamlisch is going to write it. Marvin Hamlisch. I'm like, I know who Marvin Hamlisch is. He wrote The Sting. Well, Scott Joplin wrote The Sting. But Marvin Hamlisch won the Academy Award for that. He's a double Oscar. Marvin Hamlisch. I'm like, I know who Marvin Hamlisch is. He wrote The Sting. Well, Scott Joplin wrote The Sting. But Marvin Hamlisch won the Academy Award for that. He's a double Oscar. He's a genius.

And, you know, I'm not going to tell Marvin Hamlisch that I think that the lyrics are cheesy. I'm not going to do that. So when they get Ike and Tina Turner's Proud Mary and change the lyrics to, Did a lot of work for Walt Disney. Oh yeah. Oh no. Like I'm saying, it's a bomb.

You and I are going to watch this and we're going to pause for the people at home. If you need to, if you need to watch this YouTube, Jamie, what is it? What is it? It's on the Hollywood reporters website. I don't know why it's there.

It probably is. What is the title of the actual video? Rob website I don't know why it's there probably what is the title of the actual video Rob Lowe Bombs is that the title yeah something like that disastrous open I don't know Rob Lowe and Snow White's

disastrous Oscar opening February 20th that's actually the title for the people it literally says disastrous okay folks at home

google this watch it and then we're going to pick this up After Rob and I watch this Is that Lily Tomlin at the end? No, that's a truncated version They didn't give you much of it But can I tell you something?

We're back to this That was the year that Barry Levinson I could tell just from the first bar It was going to be bad Did you take singing lessons? That was the year that Barry Levinson. I could tell just from the first bar. It was not good. It was going to be bad. Yeah.

When you're singing. Did you take singing lessons? No. No. I found the whole thing. What's that? You found the whole thing? It's 11 minutes long. No, it's 11 minutes of sheer terror.

That's on YouTube if you want to look it up. Oh, okay. Of 11 minutes that ruined Hollywood producer Alan Carr's career forever. Hold on. We'll be right back. He's like, wait, just hang on. Hang on, folks. I need to see.

First of all. I get it. I get it. Okay, we're back. So I look out in the middle of the audience and I see Barry Levinson. So he's at this, on this Oscars, he's about to win literally 11 Academy Awards. As an actor, there's no one you would want to impress more than Barry Levinson. It's the year of Rain Man.

And I look out, Joe, in the middle of this, and I see his face. I'm not kidding. And this is where he literally was going. He went like this. What the fuck? You see him actually make those? I see him mouth the words, what the fuck? And so, and so bombing.

And I'm like, but, you know, we have to have our our our actors denial. Like we can't get through a career without a healthy dose of denial. So I'm like, you know what? Fuck Barry Levinson. What does he know anyway? Fuck that guy. And I go backstage and it's in the green room and it's early because no it's early in the show and there's a an older lady in the corner with like flaming red hair and i'm kind of looking at

her and and she sees me she goes young man i didn't know you were such a good singer come sit down it was lucille ball and i went over and we sat down and she held my hand and we watched the Oscars together. And you know what? It made it all, it made it all almost worthwhile. Almost. Here's why that's not as bad as bombing doing standup. How is that not as bad? It's not as bad because even though a billion people watched it, A, you didn't write it and B, you knew where you were going you could just sing the stupid song and get it over with it's terrible it's bombing it's bad but when you're bombing doing stand-up you are the writer you are the creator you are the performer you put it together you edited it you prepared it you got it ready and then you're just up there eating shit

and people are angry at you they're angry they're angry because they can oh they were angry oh i'm sure they were angry here's the other thing they did that they it never occurred to the academy to maybe maybe that they needed to license the likeness of snow white. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And you know how Disney is about likenesses. They're so easygoing. Yeah, they're so generous. So generous. So that, see, I would have thought I would have,

I think I would have gotten away with it a little bit in terms of history had there not been massive lawsuits the next day over the likeness thing. Oh, so then people thought about it again. When people went back and went, wait a minute, that fucking sucked way worse than I thought it did. What was the next thing you did after that? I think, let's see, would it have been, I feel like it might have been Bad Influence with Kurt,

with James Spader and Kurt, one of my favorite movies I got to do. That's a great movie. I love that movie. That's a good way to bounce back. That was a good one. Let's look at the bright side. Yeah. No, listen.

And it is a- Did you consider saying no? No. A people-pleasing Midwesterner at 24 does not say no to the academy of motion picture arts and sciences they don't and every year every year i am treated to the honor the high honor of being on the list of most embarrassing oscar moments every fucking year and and my thing is this is i go hey wait guys you couldn't figure out how to announce the best picture two years ago, and I'm the problem?

Still? Well, it wasn't your fault. I mean, no one would have saved that. No one. No one. Not a fucking human being could have jumped up there and sang that and had it made any sense. Maybe Jim Carrey. Yes, maybe Jim Carrey. Maybe Jim Carrey could have jumped up there and saying that and had it made any sense maybe jim carrey maybe yes maybe jim carrey jim carrey could have done it but he would have gone full ace ventura

over the top and people would have been just laughing hysterically at how crazy he is it's it's one of my great um career low lights slash highlights i it actually it actually kind of makes me laugh with, with, with the onset of perspective in history. That's the beautiful thing about failures. They eventually become funny and they can look back at them. It only took 30 years. It's great.

Like there's some movies, man, that are terrible, terrible movies, but they're really funny to revisit, right? Like a show girls, things along those lines.

Oh, sure. I'm a big showgirls fan. It's a fucking great movie. I think they might have offered me showgirls. Oh, you should have done it. I think they might have offered me the Kyle McLaughlin as Neo.

Really? Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure. Well, you would have had sex with Elizabeth Berkley in the water. That crazy scene where she's spazzing out

while he's having sex with her. Do you remember that? She's spazzing. Oh, my God. It's one of the craziest scenes ever. It didn't make any sense. Why is she spazzing? It doesn't make any sense. It's like they were on coke when they were doing the movie, writing the movie, performing the movie

and they just, their connection with what's realistic or even entertaining or even possible doesn't make any sense. Like if you were having sex with a woman and she was flailing around like that and you kept going you'd be a criminal. Like, she's having a seizure.

She has an epileptic fit. They were in a pool, and for whatever reason, she starts flopping. I mean, like, they're making out. He's got his arm around her, and she's throwing her body, like, slapping it against the water in this, like, insane way. Like, who? I just want to know, like, who was filming that and was like cut we got it We fucking we got you got that one. Oh We got it just thought that you could hear the the fucking Jackhammer heart rate of everyone

Filming it cuz they're all coked up. Have you seen that scene? I Find the non porn site. No, we won't. That has it posted so we can watch it. Oh. I think that's the only place I can find it. YouTube doesn't have it? No. Don't porn sites have it?

Yes, definitely. Wait, is she topless in it? Is that what it is? I think so, probably. Oh. I don't even remember the topless part. She was so ridiculous. I mean, there's no nudity in movies anymore,

but in the 80s, you had, like, that was, I had the page 73 rule, because that's always the page the nude scenes were on. They were always on page 73. Why? Because that's the middle of the set. Here it is. So they're making out. Yeah, he's pouring. Oh, there you go.

Naked. Not on YouTube stuff. Yeah, X videos. Oh, there you go. Yeah, there's some. Naked. Not on YouTube stuff. Yeah, X videos. So they start fooling around, and she gets on top of them,

and then once they start doing it, she starts flailing. I mean, you see it here. What is she doing? It looks almost normal. This looks almost normal. Almost. She's just crazy. But then she gets really spastic,

and she starts throwing herself on the fucking water. Look at this. Look at this. Come on, man. What's happening here? What is that? Is that for real? Yes, it is for real.

That was in the movie. And I mean, people have to remember, she's the sweetheart from Saved by the Bell, right? And this was going to be her break from Saved by the Bell. This beautiful girl. And he's the guy from... Wow. Fucking Blue Velvet. I had forgotten.

But that... Can you imagine making that movie today? No. Yeah, no. Page 73, because it's the middle of Act 2 and any writer out there knows that the middle of the second act

is the Sahara of creativity. That's like, that's when you're like alone with your thoughts and you're like, fuck, we gotta get to the ending. Someone's gotta get naked. Someone's like, that's when you're, you're like alone with your thoughts and you're like, fuck, we got to get to the ending. Someone's got to get naked.

Someone's got to get naked and usually it would have been me. How many times did you show your butt in a movie? Too many. How many? If you get a guess.

It was the 80s. It's what we did. It's what we did. It was my job. This was 90s. That movie was like, It was right at the end, yeah.

I was in Hollywood. I was living here. So I moved here in 94. So that was, that that movie was like it was right at the end yeah i was in hollywood i was living here so i moved here in 94 so that was that had to be like 95 right 97 oh there you go this was also the era where coke was openly sold on sets really oh yeah wow sure wow it was either the camera department or the prop department makes more sense to be the prop department and their job is to go and get shit for you right yeah and just you know when when we did outsiders um we were kids you know cruz and me and matt dylan and all this way all everybody we were young um i was 17 17 turning 18 and see th Howell who played Ponyboy, the lead in the movie was 15.

And when we would finish shooting we'd get in the vans to get driven back to the hotel and there would be as much beer as you wanted. He's 15. Wow! As much beer as you wanted. And that was a studio movie. Look at you guys. Oh wait, wait. Can you

pull that photo up to see our feet? Is that possible? Because that feet, there it is. It's down there. Okay, look at Swayze. He's standing on bricks. Whose feet? He wanted to be taller.

Isn't that great? Swayze's standing on bricks in the back of that. Oh, that's hilarious. Isn't that great? That's hilarious. That's my favorite thing. Speaking of Swayze, Roadhouse. That's another horrible movie that's amazing.

Yeah, people love that movie. Oh, it's great. It's fucking great. It's great. He's a bouncer? Yeah. Yeah, he's the baddest bouncer. And that's part of the thing.

He's like, I thought you were going to be bigger. Remember that? That's like one of the lines of the thing. He's like, I thought you were going to be bigger. Remember that? That's like one of the lines in the movie. Because he's a legendary bouncer that they bring in to fix really bad honky tonks. The bad problems at the door. It's a pandemic of people

trying to get in. The VIPs. He grabs someone's neck and pulls their throat out in the movie. I mean... It's so good. Pain don't hurt. That's the actual line in the movie. I mean, it's so good. Pain don't hurt. That's the actual line in the movie. Pain don't hurt.

Those 80s lines are so good. Oh, so good. That's such a great one because he's so beautiful. Such a beautiful man. Swayze was an Adonis. He was an Adonis.

He would, he tried to get us to put that God Forsaken song She's Like the Wind in Youngblood. We were like, we were like, There it is. He pulls the throat out.

Oh, he pulls the guy's throat out. And then he hits him with the worst spinning back kick ever in the butt. Watch. He pulls his throat out, and look at this. Poyah! I'm like, Poyah! It's so bad. It's such a bad kick. He probably blew his ACL out doing that. It's so stupid.

He was the best, man. He might be the most intense guy I ever worked with. Really? Yeah, yeah. He'd be up all night writing and doing body weight push-ups with his feet up against a wall all night long. Really? And then show up at this set having not slept and wanting you to hear his new demo. He was like a lot.

It was great. It was great. It was great. But no, I remember she's like the wind and I was like, I don't know how that fits in a... We're making a hockey movie, bro. I don't know how that fits in the hockey movie. Why did he want that in there?

And then, sure enough, Dirty Dancing comes out and that movie's in it and goes to number one. Oh, well, yeah. But that movie. Okay, that was a good movie. Dirty Dancing? Yeah, that was a's in it and goes to number one. Oh, well, yeah. But that movie. Okay, that was a good movie. Dirty Dancing?

Yeah. It's a great movie. That was a great movie. Ghost is his best movie. Yeah. Ghost is a great movie. That's a great movie. It's a great movie.

Point Break was a great movie. Great movie. He did some great movies. Yeah. Keanu was in Youngblood, but I thought he was a French-Canadian goalie. Really? Yeah, I didn't know he was an actor. I literally thought he was, we hired this amazing French-Canadian goalie.

I can't believe how young you guys were. I know. That's so crazy that they were giving you booze. Look at Keanu's face. It's exactly the same as it is now. That's John Wick. Here he is. That's John fucking Wick. Look at Keanu's face. It's exactly the same as it is now. That's John Wick. Here he is. That's John fucking Wick.

Look at him. How great is John Wick? I love those movies. We love those movies, right? Love those movies. Love them. I love those movies. What's all the crazy gun training that people do?

Taren Tactical. I go there. Dude, it's badass, right? You want to go? I do. I'll bring you. I would love to do that. Okay.

Let's go. I go there all the time. Really? Yeah, I go? I do. I'll bring you. I would love to do that. Okay, let's go. I go there all the time. Really? Yeah, I go there like once a week. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm in.

Yeah, it's, well, it's good to learn how to shoot a gun properly if you're going to own guns, but I mean, Taron, he's the best. Well, I shoot regularly, but I, you you know you can't do any of that tactical stuff unless you're on a tactical range obviously so and you really want to do it with someone like taryn who can actually show you how to do it really correctly yeah so i i mean i'm on the range all the time but i'm never it's very very hard i'd love to get the tactical that's a great thing about here's the thing i learned about guns that was hilarious is that when I was learning how to shoot properly, I was shooting like an actor because you have to supply the kick. Oh, right, right, right. Because it's a blank.

Right, right. So all my experience with guns is playing guys who have guns. But blanks have a kick. But it's not like a real – so like you want to make it look good in the movies. You want to give it that little thing. So I would get out of the range and i would be doing all my acting it'd be like getting in a fight and purposely missing you by three inches i know how to movie fight right right right like i'd fight you but i'd miss you on purpose it's the same with the same with with

weapons training oh yeah well you'd have to get that out of your system but he would get that out of you quick it's uh keanu goes there he's there all the time i mean you'd have to i i would think if you're john wick you better stay facile yes well that's where he learned yeah yeah i see those those they're on youtube those famous videos where there's the timer yeah yeah and you got to get through all of the mm-hmm. I mean Look at him look at him look at him look at him. There it is Dude, he's such a badass. He's a beast man. Fuck. He's really good at that. Look at him. I Have an entire section in my phone that just says guns Look at him. Oh that shoulder hurts that shotgun

it doesn't it's not that bad it's not that bad at all how about that tactical one they have oh boy he's shooting dummies from like two inches away who's is that laura croft behind him? No. There's a bunch of really hot girls that Taryn has that he teaches. That's Halle Berry right there. What'd she got behind her? That's Halle Berry, bro. Jeez. What's that, Jamie? It's a new one?

I just clicked on a different one. Yeah, because she's in, I just sent you one, because she's in John Wick 2. No, 3. She's in 3. She's in 3. She's in 4 as well. Is 2 the best one? I like 1. 1's my favorite.

Yeah, because first of all, I love 3, but there's no muscle cars, Chad. Hey, Chad, put the fucking muscle cars back in, bro. Yeah, exactly. Doink, doink. It's fun. See? See, he teaches you how to do it It teaches you correct form Look at this Me and my buddy Tom Segura we go there all the time

I'm in It's fun to learn And it's a valuable education And the fact that he's right here That he's in California, it's amazing. And you can shoot rifles there. And he's got ranges for long-range stuff. He's got all kinds of stuff there.

Anything active, I'm in. I mean, I'm the guy that always says yes to everything, hence the Oscars. I'll say it's like my default answer is yes. But it's also, by the way, why I think that I've managed to navigate so many changing currents in the industry. Because I don't get stuck. Right. In one place. When I went on the West Wing, it's hard to think now, but in those days, TV was still considered like a lesser medium.

Really was. Really? Oh, yeah. yeah, that's right Yeah, people would get upset. Well, he's a TV star. Yeah, I don't do TV. Yeah all that stuff. Yeah Um, I'm ever God did said that to me when I was on TV show. She's like I want to do film I mean it was a real thing. It was a real perception and now now it's, you know, obviously everybody wants to do it. Well, now it's Netflix is actually better than film because now you could be on a show like Ozark. That show's great. Fuck.

So great. But it's like a film every week and it's concurrent. It keeps going. Jason's a stud, man. He's so good. He's such a stud. He's so good as an actor, but he's so good as a writer. A director. Like everything. That show is so goddamn good. He's such a stud. He's so good as an actor, but he's so good as a writer and a director.

Like everything. That show is so goddamn good. I knew him when he was on Little House on the Prairie. Oh, Jesus. I forgot about that. Oh, my God. He was on that. He was on Little House on the Prairie.

He's so good. Which just goes to show you, you never know. No, you never know. You don't know. No, you never do. You never, I mean. Well, humans are versatile, right? Like just because someone does one, you know, like there's so many people that you think like, oh, that guy's a this. And then he winds up being this amazing musician.

You're like, how? What? Like, well, humans are versatile, you know? And it takes people sometimes to, even within their lane, it takes them sometimes a while to find what they're like really, really special at. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He's really, really special at that. Like I, for me, as I've tried to do it, look at him.

Whoa. Look at how cute he is. That's him? Look at that little button. Look at him. Could he be cute that's him look at that little button look at him could he be any cuter couldn't still got the same hair basically does man you're talking about a guy who's been around a long fucking time yeah he knows what's what god damn he knows the lay of the land we're fucking michael landon come on yeah was mich Michael Landon Aquaman? Patrick Duffy. Patrick Duffy was Aquaman.

Man from Atlantis. Man from Atlantis. That's right. I saw the first thing, dude, the first time I ever saw something being filmed in California. I had just come out from Ohio. It was 1976. Whoa. And traffic was all blocked off at the Malibu Pier.

And I got out of my, and I saw the lights. It was in the daytime. It was so long ago they still had lights for daytime shooting. And they were about to do a stunt where Patrick Duffy is the man from Atlantis. He was going to jump off the Malibu Pier. And I was so fucking excited. I used to try to swim like him. Because remember the man from Atlantis?

He would swim like a porpoise. He would swim like a porpoise. And my favorite thing was what made him from Atlantis was this part of his body had a web. Yes. That's it. This was it. Right here. That was all I had. And couldn't he breathe underwater? He could breathe underwater, but this made...

That was all he could afford with the special effects. A webbing between his thumb and forefinger. I'm so into Atlantis. I'm not a big Atlantis guy anyway. Are you really? Oh, yeah. Fuck, I love it. I'm trying to figure out where it was. They think they found it.

They think they found something that represents exactly what the depictions of Atlantis were, like these rings, concentric rings. They think that there's some place, oh, God, I want to say like, I want to say off Spain, off the coast of Spain. But isn't our guy Graham saying that basically Atlantis was the pre-existing civilization and it was not an island or one place? It was all of it. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they think. But, you know, it's all speculation.

But whatever it was, you know, there's so many different versions of that so many different versions of this like spectacular seaport civilization that was destroyed in the flood like um the flood of the bible like noah's ark there's also there's a an ancient story called the epic of gilgamesh yes of course yeah and that in that story is a very similar story about a flood. And this is one of the things that Graham Hancock points to that there's all these civilizations that talk about. That had no interaction with each other in theory, and yet they all have the same oral histories.

I did a show with my boys called The Low Files, and it was basically, it was an excuse for my boys and I to run around in a souped-up Raptor around the country and explore urban legends. Oh, wow. And it was Anthony Bourdain meets Scooby-Doo. It was a fucking dream come true. That sounds awesome. It was a dream come true. What network was this for?

A&E. They were great that they let us do it, but it couldn't have been a worse fit. When they put us with Ancient Aliens for one night, we blew the roof off the place. Really? And we got to look for the wood ape. We got to look for Bigfoot. We did Poltergeists. The low files.

See if you can find the opening credits for the low files. It's one of my proudest moments. What year is this? Like four years ago. Let's see if they have it. Give me some volume on this. Loved spooky legends and scary mysteries. Are we going to get in trouble for using blue aristocote?

Wait, Joe didn't see my homage. The very, very end. My homage to Hawaii Five-0. It's the very last 30 seconds of the clip. You have to see it because I'm sure you remember this great shot from Jack Lord's credits in the end of Hawaii Five-0. It's right at the end. Go over here, right here. Watch, here it comes.

Do you remember that shot in the balcony? I do. I did. I did. Yes. That's hilarious. I designed that whole credit sequence. I got the song.

I did the whole. It's one of my favorite things I've done. Blue Oyster Cult. Don't Fear the Reaper. It's best. It's a great fucking song. So what are the subjects? You went for Bigfoot?

We did Bigfoot twice. We did Bigfoot up in Northern California in Walnut Creek, the Patterson-Giblin film was shot. We did – turns out the wood ape of Arkansas, Oklahoma is the most active place. And that was where we really – where we had some really radical experiences where I heard stuff and- You heard stuff? Oh yeah, I heard like lip popping, like chest beating.

Really? Like you really think it was real? I heard chest beating. I don't know- You know who made a great fucking Bigfoot movie? Bobcat Goldthwait. What? Yup.

He made a great Bigfoot movie. Come on. A scary Bigfoot movie movie what is it called again do you remember willow creek oh yeah yeah did you remember um you ever seen um okay what is this he did it like uh blair witch style i'm writing that down i love that um it's fucking good man we had we had a great time and it's all these we went with all these guys who are like real legit people they're like regular people and they spend their time out in the woods and they know how many are out there and it's it was crazy matthew my youngest son's through the thermal imaging saw him hiding but like doing the thing with a high behind the tree bigfoot's real i don't

know i mean here's a like i like the slogan for the low files was, it's more fun to believe. It definitely is more fun to believe. And that's really where I come down on it. It's like, I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's way more fucking fun. For sure. Way more fun. I want it to be. I want Bigfoot to be real.

I've always wanted it to be real. The problem is the people looking at it also want it to be real. Yes. They're trying so hard. They see shadows they think that are Bigfoot. There's some interesting things. There's some interesting things in terms of like dermal ridges they found on footprints. And there's also –

There's a lot of hair samples and shit that come back and they don't know what they got them from. Not really. Really? Yeah, I looked into that. Oh, tell me how you did that. I did a show called Joe Rogan Questions Everything for Sci-Fi. And me and my buddy Duncan went up to the Pacific Northwest. And we brought stuff to real biologists and we actually had samples analyzed.

They're all bare. And then when they say that there's some human or primate DNA, it's always contaminated. It's like the chain of custody between the actual piece of hair and getting into the lab is always contaminated. Right, yeah. No one just stops. No, it's next to their granola bars and their backpacks. People touch it. They're hiking out, yeah.

If you touch something, you get your sweat on it, and it could show up as human DNA or animal DNA mixed with human DNA. The problem is the people that are into it, the real problem is they want to believe so fucking bad that they just have this crazy confirmation bias and they only look at the good things. Well, my favorite episodes of The Low Files were the ones where we didn't find shit. They were my favorite.

Just having fun. Because it's just a dad and two idiot kids, you know, having a blast. The thing about Bigfoot that's interesting is Native Americans had more than 100 different names for that animal. Yes. And they don't have names for other mythical creatures. And then on top of that, there was an actual animal called a Gigantopithecus. And it was a huge ape, ape-like creature that stood on two legs and walked upright and was probably some sort of looked like orangutan like it probably looked exactly like what we think of as bigfoot was

an actual real animal have you ever seen the images i have and i it's funny there's the deep connection between native americans and that legend is really really profound like i've had in in the in one of the episodes that we did, we talk with some of the elders and they would say, no, one reached through the window and touched my chest. And it's like,

you're like, this guy's not crazy. I'm not talking to a crazy person. Right, but they also have peyote. Native Americans have other shit. That's true. Would let you see Bigfoot. Maybe that's the thing. Like you only see Bigfoot bigfoot bigfoot's real but he's interdimensional you only

see him when you're on drugs that could happen that absolutely could be real like if you get on the right psychedelics you'll meet well it's funny i you know as a sober guy i there's part of me that wishes because i liked i liked mushrooms but only like once or twice a year because it's so fucking fun and you get like you like you said, you get all that stuff going. Yeah. But. I did them last week. Part of, how was it?

Did you laugh a lot? Because all I did was laugh. Post Malone and I did a podcast. We did mushrooms. Oh my God. Yeah. We had a good old time. How long were you tripping?

Well, the podcast was four hours long and we were drinking too. So it was like just madness. It was all just like mushrooms. I could feel the mushrooms. I was getting high too. He wasn't smoking pot, but we were drinking Bud Lights and it was a lot of chaos. This is like exactly what my 80s were like. But I think about people go and do ayahuasca and do those.

That really appeals to me. That's different in that you know you could call it a drug but it's dmt which is what ayahuasca brings up right that's what it's the active ingredient you're still you you're not drunk that's what's weird about it well i don't know what it is but if you wanted to get realwoo, you would call it some sort of a chemical gateway into another dimension or to another realm that you can't access without it. It doesn't seem like a drug. But how is it not any different than, I got stoned and I saw crazy shit?

Well, first of all, it's endogenous, right? So your brain actually has this chemical inside of it. It's one of the more interesting things about this drug is that your body knows how to process it so well like if you do coke right like I'm sure you're coked up for a long time right your body's all fucked up for a long time dimethyltryptamine only lasts like 15 minutes what yeah your body recognizes what it is so it brings you back to baseline very very quick so if you do this yeah it's a 15 minute experience yeah the ayahuasca takes longer because ayahuasca is an orally active version of it.

So what ayahuasca is is the roots of one plant and the leaves of the other. So you have DMT in one plant, and in the other plant, you have something called an MAO inhibitor. MAO is monoamine oxidase, and that's produced by your gut to break down dimethyltryptamine and a bunch of other chemicals. But it breaks down dimethyltryptamine because dimethyltryptamine is in a bunch of different plants. So you could trip just eating phalaris grass if you didn't have monoamine oxidase in your

gut. So if you ate the grass, nothing would happen because your body would break it down. But if you had an MAO inhibitor, then you would trip balls. Well, and then the other thing that people talk about is like, I vomited for five hours. Yeah, that's the problem with ayahuasca. You're going to blow your asshole out. You're going to diarrhea, throw up. It's disgusting stuff. I don't want to do that. It's also because you're getting the plant, you're getting all the stuff that's not the

active ingredient from these roots and these leaves too and then all of a sudden your body's freaking out what did you have you ever had any um awakening or vision or i've had a lot of visions on dimethyltryptamine yeah it's anything that you could that you once you got um once you were done tripping that didn't seem like the ramblings of a madman or was it something you were like oh wow i had a i had a revelation it's hard to say um they all seem impossible to describe to anybody else other than people that have experienced it but what what it does make you realize is that how the the thing that i always felt when i came back is like how is this

possible that you could go to a place like this where you could see something that's way more vivid and way more powerful than regular life like whatever it is it's not it's it's not like it's it's dull and confusing and you feel drugged and you feel less, you know, you feel more, you see more, it's more vibrant, it's more powerful. And whatever is over there seems to know you. It seems to understand, it seems to be you're communicating with something, something that's far more intelligent than you, far more advanced and not hindered by all of the things that we're hindered by like our egos and our our our nonsense and our insecurities and our civilization and culture it's like it's it's some sort of other kind of consciousness you know

and and and it's they they joke about things they They make fun of you. Like one time I did it and all these gestures, like this, like a geometric pattern of gestures, like a fractal, like infinite gestures were giving me the finger like this. Fuck you. Like mocking me. And the message that I got was that I was taking myself too seriously. Like, maybe even, like, while my intentions going into the trip, I was taking myself too seriously. Wow.

And I remember relaxing, going, oh, okay. And they're like, that's right. Like, they're nodding their head. Like, yes. Like, it was a message. Like, hey, stupid. You know, you take yourself too seriously. Fuck you. Fuck you. I like fuck you. And there was gestures, hey, stupid. You know, you take yourself too seriously. Fuck you.

Fuck you. I like fuck you. And it was gestures, like with a hat and everything. So in your life now, like, let's say you are stressing out about something. It's very serious. So you do the fractal gestures. Do you remember them? And go, oh, yeah, I had this. Very, very.

But you know what I mean? Like, you bring something back that you can practically practically use in your your this dimension this time humility there's a there's a humility that comes from real psychedelic experiences that you just because you know that they are possible it's it makes you it makes you second guess the significance of regular existence because it seems like the whatever that like that might be where you go when you die. Okay, I Was waiting for the yeah, I was waiting for the moment. So here's I because I don't do drugs But I've been meditating a bunch and that's one of the things that people have been telling me for years to do all the people That I admire meditation is a part of their lives and I've every time I do it I just go to sleep um or I start thinking about shit that I

can't control but I've recently started doing it um it's really been amazing and I've definitely noticed some changes and it's also um affected the quality of my dreams and I you're familiar with vivid dreaming sure right so lucid lucid dreaming vivid yeah so I've had a number of them and I had I had done some meditating on I don't mean to overstate it but like what is it all about right right sure everybody wants to right it sounds cliche yeah and so I did that and then I had a, a, a lucid dream that night. And then lucid dream, I went to that place and it was, it looked like, um, it looked like the, like avatar, you know, like the James camp. It like, it was like, or a fern gully.

It was like, or like, like Kauai with the waterfalls and the rainbows. And, and I was flying, but I was but i was me but i wasn't me right i know i didn't have a body but i could think and it was it was i was definitely me and the surroundings were so and the feeling was so full of euphoria and love. Like, like I started weep, like weep sobbing of happiness. And then I, then all of a sudden the voice went, oh, but what about my family? I'm here now. And they're not here yet. Cause it was, it was sort of the theory was that I had gone to heaven or whatever the fuck it was. And here's the freaky part is I realized, no, no, they're already there because time is not linear. So my takeaway from this dream, my ramblings of a madman, we're already there.

Well, your brain does produce psychedelic chemicals while you're sleeping. That's one of the things about DMT that's so closely related to dreams is that it's really hard to remember after it's over, but so vivid when it's happening. This I remembered like, and I remember it now, like I witnessed it. And that's what made it different and special. Maybe the improvement in the way your brain was working because of the meditation that you'd gotten yourself into a state where you could access it. But I think –

And I physically asked for it before I went to bed. Oh. No, I actively – Have you done it again since? I have and I haven't had – I've had smaller fleeting versions of this, but this was like starring in a movie. It was like it was happening I think James Cameron nailed something in that Avatar film that resonates with people in a very strange way not

just that it was an awesome movie and it was a fucking awesome movie but that he he nailed something that made people want to live like that you You know, there was a thing they were talking about after that movie called Avatar Depression, where people were leaving the film and they were depressed that their life was nothing like Avatar, like Pandora, like living like the Na'vi. Pandora, that's it. Yeah, there was something about what he nailed. He nailed something in that movie where it's like this spiritual connection. It was very ayahuasca-like too. There's this connection to

Mother Earth and nature and spirits and the connection of all of them. There's something about that film. He hit some nerve with people. I've never heard of another film generating depression that you know, there's no Star Wars depression.

Other than when you see some of the ones that have recently come out yeah that's depressing and that's what happens when the executives get a hold of it hey you got to go to Cuba and grab the people and put him in the boat that's right and then they listen that's right that's exactly right that's exactly what happened but you know James Cameron such a force of nature you can't really do that to him he figured something out in those movies. He figured out how to tap into some sort of elemental area of the psyche that people, it just resonated with people. Like sort of the same way I think, you know, people that talk about folks that live like a subsistence life, you know, people that have gone to the woods and they just live off the land.

They talk about this like deep connection to nature that they get from that and how it makes them feel fulfilled. They don't feel depressed. They feel very engaged. And, you know, there's a guy named Heimo. He lives in the Arctic and Vice did this whole series on him called Heimo's Arctic Adventure. And one of the things that he was saying is he came out there like in the 1970s to work for the forestry department they just lived there for the rest of his life jesus he's

up there right now with his family like he's married to this indigenous woman and they live off the land he eats caribou and fish and his whole life is like hunting and gathering but he's like this is how people are supposed to and he's a very intelligent man very articulate so when you hear him talk he's not some weirdo that lives in the woods he's a guy who recognizes like there's something about this that resonates with humans this life this like being you're you're you're connected in the way that you're supposed to be and he thinks that what we've done by creating cities and electricity and electronics and you know social media and all the bullshit that we deal with today that we've disconnected ourselves from the things that really make us human. Yeah.

I believe that. And that his life is more connected to it. But there's even a deeper connection, and that's how the Na'vi lived. And, you know, if you read about, there's many stories about Native Americans where they would, especially the Comanche, would kidnap people. They would kidnap, like, young children. Oh, that great book. Which one? Under the Harvest Moon. Oh, okay kidnap people. They would kidnap young children. Oh, that great book. Which one?

Under the Harvest Moon. Oh, okay. Oof. Do yourself a favor. I will, I will. Empire of the Summer Moon was the one that I'm talking about. That's the one, sorry. Oh, okay.

Yeah, same one. Yeah, about Cynthia Ann Parker. Yeah. Yes. It's one of my favorite books. There's a photo of her out there in the lobby. That's who that is. That's Cynthia Ann Parker.

I knew I knew it from somewhere. Yeah. That's Quanah Parker. That's her son. That guy over there on the one that's made out of her out there in the lobby. That's who that is. That's Cynthia Ann Parker when you're a child. Yeah. That's Quanah Parker. That's her son. That guy over there on the one that's made out of bullet shells. That's one of my favorite books ever. It's a fucking amazing book. Amazing book.

It's amazing. And that's one of the things they said was that she did not want to go back to Western civilization. She's like, you guys live like idiots. Like, this is a bullshit way to live. Like, this is a bullshit way to live. There's something about that movie that tapped into that, but also tapped into this, like, spiritual realm that exists in psychedelics. Cameron fucking nailed it, man.

He nailed it. And a lot of people are like, oh, that movie's just- Have you ever had him on? No. No, I'd love to. He's the great- First of all, he's the most humble. I've never worked with him, but my dear, dear, dear, dear friend who passed away a few years ago, Bill Paxton.

I loved that guy. He's the best. He's one of my best. He was one of my best friends. And he and Jim were in Roger Corman's production mill together. They were both like standby painters. So he's been in every Jim Cameron movie ever, ever made. And he introduced me to Jim.

And there was a minute where i was going to play the billy zane part in titanic and um the uh jim is he's like there's no one like him there's literally nobody like him the fucking guy went to the bottom of the ocean with so bill and he went to because bill's a goddamn jim's taking me down to the Titanic. I'm going next Thursday. And they went down to the Titanic. They had lunch on the deck of the fucking Titanic. What? Yeah.

Oh, my God. And then Bill came up and everybody was like ashen faced and freaking out. And 9-11 had happened. Whoa. Bill Paxton was on the deck of the Titanic when 9-11 happened. Holy shit. With Jim Cameron. Is that crazy? Oh, my God.

That's insane. Insane. That's insane. But I'm dying to see these new Avatar movies. I know. When are they supposed to happen? I mean, everything's all fucked up now because of COVID, right? Yeah.

I heard they keep getting pushed and pushed and pushed. But, you know like he's bet the farm on them i mean i he's the one guy he's the guy like there are very few people who could get me to go to a movie theater anymore yeah i would do anything for that guy's movie maybe chris nolan maybe um but for sure but for sure james cameron bill paxton was in one of the most underrated vampire movies of all time yeah Yeah. After Dark. After Dark. Remember that? He's great in it. That's a movie that people don't remember that.

That was a fucking great vampire movie. He's a- Budget, one billion. Only James Cameron. But that's for three movies, too. But still. By the way, it'll make a billion But that's for three movies, too. But still. By the way, it'll make a billion dollars within six months. The first one.

And maybe even streaming, it might make a billion dollars. Like, even if it came out today. Best deal in the world. Yeah. I love, I hate to say this because I love movies, and I do love going to the movie theater. But the fucking consequences of going to the movie theater are dealing with people. Like, people that are texting or talking. No, I won't do it.

That's what drove me out of the movie theaters was the glow of people's phones. When that started, I was out. Well, people talking, too, is so annoying. But when people are not annoying, like, you know, the nine out of ten times, it's fucking amazing because you feel the energy of all the other people, especially at comedy. Oh, yeah. Like, I remember I went to see Team America World Police. Oh, my God. With me, my friend Eddie Bravo,

and a bunch of other friends. We were baked out of our fucking mind, and we went to see that in a crowded theater. We were dying, and everyone was dying. There were so many people laughing. It was like being in a comedy club. The energy of all the other people in the film. Borat.

In the theater. Borat was the last one for me. It was like being in a comedy club. The energy of all the other people in the film. Borat. In the theater. Borat was the last one for me that was like that. Where the minute the credits started with the music in it, I was, the whole, it was one of my favorite. But Team America, come on. Oh my God. Yeah. Those guys, those guys are national treasures. They're national treasures.

Yeah. They still, they're one of the one groups of people that can avoid cancel culture because their creations are these things that aren't even people. These like weird little cartoons. You can kill them. They can say outrageous shit. They can do everything they want. It's like the perfect vehicle for mocking culture. You've seen that great YouTube clip where they're in the recording booth.

Yes, yes. And they're doing the – that was about like six days or something like that it's I've never met them there it's funny it's like they're awesome though what I love is having people still at this point in my life that I'm huge fan of that I haven't met because and then I hope my better that way keep them well you know where it's really like that for me is people i don't like because as a sports fan i you gotta have villains right so like i remember not wanting to meet larry bird because i'm a lakers fan and i don't and i never wanted to meet really who i really didn't want to meet was danny ange and of course i met him and he was fucking awesome and i'm like fuck like who am i gonna hate now as a comic it's a real problem because if you

meet someone you really like him you can't make fun of him anymore i got met jenny mccarthy once and she was so nice i had to cut her out of my act oh no i had a bit about her where they said she was gonna take her breast implants out and said, that's like Tiger Woods chopping his fucking arms off. I go, put them back in and make them bigger and no talking. It was so mean. But then I met her and she was so nice. She was so friendly and pretty. You know that great story Spade tells about, he did that, he used to do the Hollywood Minute on Weekend Update.

It was the meanest, funniest thing we'd make fun of celebrities. And at one point, you know, we all have down times in our career. It's an honor to have a fallow time in your career because it means you've been around. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And Eddie Murphy had been in a fallow time and Spade in the middle of an update had eddie murphy's picture come up on the screen he went oh look kids a falling star and within five minutes the phone was ringing on studio 8h and it was eddie oh my god for spade oh my god yeah i mean i'm i'm telling a story that only because

spade publicly tells it and it's amazing but like what. What did Eddie Murphy say to him? He went fucking nuts. But Spade tells a great story of like trying to avoid the call and like running and ducking. I mean, you know, Spade is like a tiny little will-o'-the-wisp. He's so small. Right. Yeah, you got it. That's the thing is like, you know. Yeah.

It's good to keep some people at a distance so you can continue to root against them. Let's face it. Yeah. Well, my friend Bill Burr was talking about that the other day. He was on his podcast he does with Burt Kreischer. And they were talking about meeting a president. He goes, I don't want to meet a president. He goes, why?

Because then he can't make fun of him. He was talking about his bit about Michelle Obama. And he has this amazing bit about michelle obama and uh you know and he's like if i met her i couldn't do that bit yeah it's right you couldn't you'd feel bad you'd feel like oh i'm throwing her under the bus she's a nice lady that's why spade stopped doing hollywood minute you just couldn't do it anymore and it was like a big big deal big big franchise of of weekend update yeah yeah that's part of the problem but it's you know it is it is what it is that's right and also somebody was

telling me um that we're with emoji culture and text culture that are that our language our language changed forever for sure because now no one cares about punctuation. I mean, it's just not. No one cares. It's not looked down upon. It isn't a sign of lack of education anymore. It has no pejorative attached to it. And I was sort of a better, better.

And what if you read the letters from the Civil War, right? Those great like flowery, beautiful that like the most, you know, like a private in the army would write. Now today, the private in the army is sending a three second text but that's progress because it actually requires less time you get the same information and it's you haven't had to go through the time and effort of the other at least that was the the theory that somebody's telling you made me feel better about it. I don't know if that theory is correct. That's like saying that people who read texts all day and they read tweets and bullshit nonsense on social media, that's better than reading books. Because I don't think it's true. But it's probably not.

It's just easier. It's probably not. I'm just trying to feel better about culture today. I'm hopeful about the culture today, but there's more challenges. There's more information, more things, so there's more challenges. But I don't think that's necessarily bad. It's just you're still a brilliant people. You're just going to have – it's easier to be a moron today and survive.

Back in the Civil War days, if you were writing a letter back home – I mean, I wonder what education was like back then, too, right? I mean, it was probably. It couldn't have been great. Yeah. No, it couldn't have been. But, you know, that famous letter of Sullivan Ballou that ends the first episode of Ken Burns' documentary, The Civil War, that's famous. And they put that beautiful song underneath it.

It's like. I know. It's crazy to read the way they wrote. So flowery. Yeah. So eloquent. So eloquent, so moving. And it was like a piece of art.

And that was just a regular dude writing home to his wife. Yeah. If someone wrote like that home to their wife, their friends would read and go, I think your husband's gay. What was the name? Sullivan Ballou. It wasn't Jim. What was the name? Sullivan Baloo.

It wasn't Jim. What is Sullivan into? Musicals? Bye Bye Birdie fan? What's his thing? Nothing wrong with it. No judgment. Yeah.

I think it's just more challenges today because there is more information coming in. You can get lost in junk food information. You can get lost. What's information you know you can get lost and what's your current like youtube wormhole you're into because that's all i do at night it's like people people wonder why viewership is down and listen you know i i'm in the tv business i should be watching tv i don't watch tv i go to youtube and i go down the worm whatever wormhole i'm interested in on that particular day YouTube almost entirely for escape. So I watch, I watch pool, like professional pool matches on YouTube.

I do all that. I watch car videos. I watch dumb shit. I watch things that don't require that much thinking. But then every now and then I'll watch like a lot of space documentaries. If there's one thing that I watch a lot, it's documentaries on space, things about space, space travel, exploration, new things they're learning. I was reading something today about NASA. They're going to change some of their wording to be more inclusive.

I'm like, please say they're not going to get rid of black holes. Because if NASA decides that black holes are racist, I'm going to give up. You know, anything's possible today. Everything is possible. I've been into my, my new thing is, uh, of all things, Simon and Garfunkel. Oh, wow. Yeah. Those harmonies and stuff in, in, but I'm a huge yacht rock guy before you, before yacht

rock was a thing. I didn't know that was a genre, an official genre, but like yacht rock. Yeah. Oh, so you, this is a new phrase for you too. Is it? Yes. Oh, well then I don't know that was a genre, an official genre. But like... Yacht rock. Yeah. Oh, so this is a new phrase for you too? Yes. Is it? Yes. Oh, well, then I don't feel I was behind.

There's an actual channel on SiriusXM for yacht rock. No. Yes. What does that mean? So yacht rock is like the Eagles. The Eagles. The Eagles. Boz Skaggs.

Here it goes. Al Stewart's Year of the Cat. Okay, look at this. The term yacht rock does not exist contemporaneously with the music the term describes. Huh. With the music the term describes. From about 1975 to 1984, it refers to adult-oriented rock or West Coast sound, it refers to adult-oriented rock or West Coast sound,

which became identified with yacht rock in 2005 when the term was coined in a J.D. Reisner et al.'s online video series of the same name. Oh, so one guy came up with the name. So who are the bands of yacht rock? Let's see what this is. Michael McDonald. Oh, Michael McDonald. For sure.

10cc. Christopher Cross. I'm a big yacht rock fan. Kenny Loggs. Toto. I'm a big Yacht Rock fan. Kenny Loggins. Toto. Steely Dan. Steely Dan. Yes.

I love Steely Dan. They're my favorite band. So Yacht Rock is like older dudes. Another thing I'm into is Donald Fagan talking music theory. It's really, really amazing. Talking about chord progressions and stuff. Do you play? I wish I did.

I know five chords on a guitar. Oh, I don't know one. I don't know anything. Yeah, I know like five open chords. When I get to bar chords, my little fingers were too weak and I had to move on. I think music is one of those things when I'm, I'm, I'm scared to learn because if I start getting into it, I'll be obsessed and then I'll, I'll lose all the time that I have.

Then you're going to start a band. You'll be like, you know, you'll be like every actor with their band. I wonder who has the best actor band. Like I want to see. Jared Leto, right?

Oh, for sure. 100%. But that's a legit. I was in a teen magazine with him. Were you? Yeah. And like 1993, I think.

Wow. Yeah. The Bacon Brothers, they're great. 94 maybe? Kevin Bacon's band's great. That's right. He's got a legit band. You know who's legit?

Juliette Lewis. Juliette Lewis can sing her fucking ass off. Bill Burr told me about her. He calls her up. He goes, dude. He goes, let me tell you something. She's a fucking rock star. He goes, a legit rock star.

I'm like, come on. And then he sent me a video. I was like, holy fuck. I've always been a huge fan of hers. She's a beast. She's so good. She pours it out, man. There she is.

Look at her. Look at her. She's wearing Evel Knievels out there. Yes. She's fucking good, man. That's some Snake River Canyon shit she's got on. Her and I have talked about doing a podcast, but we never really got to do it. I love her.

I don't know her at all. Love her, though. She's a fucking amazing actress, man. Her and- Cape Fear? Oh, yeah, dude. That was a movie you couldn't make today. Couldn't make that movie today.

No chance. Nope. No chance. When she sucked on Robert De Niro's thumb. Thumb in a playhouse? She sucked on his thumb in a child's playhouse. And she was like, what, 15 at the time or something? If.

Oh, God. Yeah, you couldn't do that today. There's so many films you couldn't do today. That movie's great. How about when De Niro smokes that cigar in the theater? He's like, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha. He was terrifying. Such an actor.

Oh, my God. He's actor. Oh, my God. He's amazing. He's a beast. But the other thing was the one with Woody Harrelson when they were serial killers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Natural Born Killer. Thank you. Yeah.

God damn, she was good in that. Woo. So good. Yeah. Yeah. Oliver Stone. That's Oliver Stone, isn't it? Yep.

That's Oliver Stone. What a hit. I got to meet him. Did a podcast with him a couple weeks's Oliver Stone, isn't it? Yep. That's Oliver Stone. What a name. I got to meet him. I did a podcast with him a couple weeks ago. Oh, I saw it. He's amazing. He's great. He's an interesting cat.

He's an interesting. We did. There was a minute where he was going to make the Noriega, Manio Noriega story. It was going to be Al Pacino was going to play Noriega and I was going to play Oliver North. Whoa. And it never happened. The script was good, but not great. And we did a big table reading of it at Oliver's place.

And Oliver's known to be really tough on actors and I'd never worked with him. But so we take a break halfway through and I go to the water fountain and Oliver's at the water fountain and I turn to him and go, what do you think? How's it going? He went, I don't know. What do you mean How's it going? He went, I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? He goes, I don't know, Rob.

I just was just a little surprised. What do you mean? He goes, I just thought you'd have a little more energy and turned away and walked away.

So when we came back, the next line I had, I was doing it like this with so much motherfucking energy. It was unbelievable and Oliver just kind of like laughed and smiled to himself

talking to him was so fascinating because he's one of the few guys that's made films about combat who's actually experienced real combat and you know talking about his experiences in vietnam and then coming back home and making platoon and how difficult it was yeah to make platoon and what a fucking masterpiece it was people forget salvador is great oh my god jim belushi yeah people forget how good jimmy belushi is in salvador james woods midnight express dude that guy made some fucking wicked movies alan perker who directed it died this week you know he? Yeah, he was one of my favorite directors. Did Pink Floyd, The Wall, Bugsy Malone. Wow.

And- Stone is so weird, too, because he wrote so many great movies, like Scarface. He wrote great movies and produced and directed. He did so much, man. So much. JFK. He's such an iconoclast. I mean, they would, I don't know if a guy like him could make it through the corporation.

Well, also the way he partied, too. Oh, believe me. I was doing a movie called Masquerade in New York City when they were making Wall Street. And we would always be like, our set would be like three blocks from their set. And Charlie and I, of course, grew up together and it would be, it was just, it was Michael Douglas. Oh boy. Those days. The dark days. The darkness. It was accepted. Yeah. What was a part of the culture, right? It was 100% a part of it. It's's what you did so he did isn't it weird now that that's so demonized you're not doing it any of it yeah any of it and look it's it's obviously

for the better um it's definitely for the better for the victims but is it for the better for the creators i don't know here's my thing i really believe that the notion that getting high makes you a better artist or gives you better access into your art i think is bullshit i do you might be right but you might not be right i know i might not there's some art that's made by people that are fucked up that's insanely good. I know, I know. Some of Stephen King's writings when he was fucked up. When he was drinking? The Shining?

Yeah. Shining, Cujo, Carey. I think it was Cujo or Carey. He doesn't even remember writing. He was so fucked up just doing coke and drinking cases of beer. Look, the Beatles, you know, in their acid phase. Hendrix? You can't deny it I think

that you just don't they would have made something else it would have been different but I think it would have been maybe as good I don't think it's a pre I think people who treat it as a prerequisite I think that's a mistake I agree I agree with that I know brilliant people that are a mistake. I agree. I agree with that. Well, I know brilliant people that are completely sober, so I 100% agree.

But I don't think you can deny the impact that some drugs have on some creativity. For sure. Yeah. I mean, what if Crosby, Stills, and Nash never smoked dope? What if the Grateful Dead never smoked dope? Or did acid. Or did acid. Maybe the music would be good.

Sorry. I'm with you on that. I don't get it. There's a lot of people that love the dead. What about Phish? Isn't Phish like that? It's basically the same band. Right?

I don't know. To me, I don't have that gene. There's this white person gene that I don't possess. The Phish gene. Yeah. There's this white person gene that I don't possess. The fish gene. Yeah. There's like dirty feet gene where you just want to like dance around in a field with your friends while you wear beads. No.

I have a cousin who followed the dead. She followed the dead all over the country. She like lived with the dead in terms of like the fans. They made food and sold it to people that would go to the to the concerts they'd like scramble eggs and shit i don't yeah do you ever go to burning man no any desire maybe maybe now that you can wear a mask and hide from people i don't it's it's it's it's an excuse to take drugs and kind of be sexually provocative right am i missing something there's definitely that there's a I think

There's also like this freedom of this alternative civilization that they develop in this wasteland You know I have friends that love it and they love it here people by the way who are really like you go really really Successful oh I know a lot of the tech dorks. They love it. Yeah, I Don't I just feel like it's a lot of dust. I've genius friends that love it a lot of dust a lot of the tech dorks. They love it. Yeah. I just feel like it's a lot of dust. I have genius friends that love it. A lot of dust. A lot of dirtiness. Yeah.

I'm good. I mean, people are like, you have to go. I'm like, I don't know if I do. What are the other things that people tell you you have to do that you don't want? It's like, you have to go to India. It's so moving. I'm like, I don't know. Is it?

I feel like I'm getting sick already thinking about it. I feel like my stomach hurts now. Yeah, I can feel the diarrhea brewing before I get on the plane. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I've heard people say India was amazing, and I've heard people say they wanted to leave the moment they got off the plane. I know people who've done both. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to go to Egypt. Me too. I would really like to see the pyramids. Me too. I'm desperate to do that whole thing. But I want to go to Egypt. Me too. I would really like to see the pyramids. Me too. I'm desperate to do that whole thing, but I want to go with someone. I want to find the person who's the expert on all of it. I had the expert and he just died. No. John Anthony West.

And he and I had talked a couple times about even getting together with a group of my friends and going over there and he was going to guide us. He's a, he's what you would determine. You would, he's a guy that inspired a lot of Graham Hancock's work, uh, collaborated together on some stuff. That's why I know the name.

Yeah. He's, he's amazing. That's my, that's my dream trip. Yeah. 100%. It's a mind fuck.

I'm sure. I mean, I haven't, the closest I've been is Chichen Itza. I've seen the Mayan pyramids and that was a mind fuck. Have you been to Machu Picchu? No, I haven't. So I went two years ago, and I thought it would be like that great scene in National Lampoon's Vacation when Chevy Chase sees the Grand Canyon.

Where he goes, he goes, okay, and leaves. Do you know what I mean? Like, I saw it. That was great. I'm done. I really thought that's what it would be and it was it was fucking amazing yeah amazing it's pretty crazy first of all you you have to walk there you you can take a train to the base of it and then walk up and by the way when people say i walked it sometimes they're

talking about walking from the train yeah um you You've got to take the Inca Trail. We didn't do the four-day version. That's too much. There's no reason to do it. But we did like the eight-hour, and it makes all the difference. Look at that place. And we caught it with that type of weather, too. God damn, that's beautiful.

And they don't really understand the civilization that built that. No, and what you realize when you get there is there's two civilizations. There's that, and then there are parts of that that are even older that look completely different. Completely different. Like any idiot can tell that that's from a different time. Yeah, that's one of the things that Graham Hancock talks about, is that there's a bunch of these spots like there where archaeologists have sort of determined that, well, this is what happened. And then upon further examination, other people said, but wait, I don't know if this is right. And I don't know why they did this.

Who were these people? You see, even in that photo we're looking at, you see the kind of looks like little stone brick area, which is like 80% of what we're seeing. That's really what it looks like. But then you get in there and there's other areas that look nothing like it with that crazy right angle, seamless stones that you see all over the rest of the world. Yeah. That this was clearly built on top of. I mean, you just, it obviously was.

Yeah. Well, that's the argument. There you go. See that wall? obviously was yeah well that's the that's the art there you go see that that wall that those that's the argument it's different than the wall over there totally different look at the steps jesus christ look at those those green covered steps so what those were where the crops were that that's where they grew the crops god it's fucking great you think you worry about going all the way there and being like i slept all the way there for this it's fucking great you think you worry about going all the way there and being like i slept all the way there for this it's totally rewarding on the other side of it i went to the galapagos and that was i would recommend just go to catalina really really yeah really yeah

it's fucking catalina dude it's Yes. It's just an island? It's the Channel Island. Well, they call the Channel Islands the Galapagos of North America. Do they? They do, for good reason. When you go to the Galapagos, you're like, wait, I'm sorry. This is San Miguel Island off of Santa Barbara. That's hilarious.

But if you're into the blue-footed booby, you've got to go there. You're one of those guys. And if you wanna, like, swim with those gnarly lizards that are under, like, gigantic, like, monitor lizards that are underwater, like, when you're snorkeling, you're not getting that at Catalina. Right.

You gotta go to Galapagos. You gotta go to Galapagos. There they are. Those fuckers are underwater. How big is that thing? You swim with them. How big are they? It's this table from me to you.

Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Look at this table from me to you. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Look at the size of those fuckers. They're great. What a weird looking creature. It's really something. Oh, my God. That part was way worth it.

Whoa. Look at that guy. And then, obviously, the Galapagos tortoises. You're only going to get there. They don't even know how old they are. Look at those fuck yeah it's a long way to go though yeah how long did it take you to get there um it's it's a full day it's a full day and a half travel wow there's something about going places well I mean I'm sure that's fascinating but there's something about going places well i mean i'm sure that's fascinating but there's something about going places where people lived a long time ago that's very eerie like if you go to like um pompeii was weird for me because you're you're looking around and you realize like this is this

civilization that what was it a thousand years ago or whatever yeah that mount vesuvius erupted that just instantaneously vanished i I never got to Pompeii. I know people who just had the same experience. It's a trip because, you know, you're looking at like this. Rome is like that as well. Like just being around the Vatican and seeing just the... How much would you love to have free reign of the Vatican? Take me to the Indiana Jones vault.

You know, where everything's stored. What do you think they have that they don't show us? The Ark. The thing I really want is the library of Alexandria that burned, you know, which had all of the all of the wonder, all the knowledge of the world there. People say that a lot of it got moved out and is in the Vatican. The Vatican is a weird place, man. I went with a guy who was a scholar.

He was a professor who he was really very great. He was a great guide. You know, it was one of those professional guides that you hire. And he and I hit it off big time because we were out in this courtyard area and there was this giant pine cone. And I said, the pine cone. And he looked at me and I go, is that representative of the pineal gland? And his eyes lit up. He's like, yes.

And the next thing you know know me and him are talking about drugs and we're talking about you know the the understanding of the pineal gland the seat of the soul like that thing is supposed to represent the pineal gland that's supposed that's not just a pine cone it's supposed to represent the gland in your brain that produces dimethyltryptamine and so there's there's a lot of that weird shit in ancient Christian art, like mushroom imagery and a lot of weird stuff that you find. In fact, there's a book by this guy,

John Marco Allegro, who was a biblical scholar and a linguist, and he was also one of the only people in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the translation commission, translation group that was assigned to try to figure out this Dead Sea Scrolls and translate it back. He was an ordained minister, but he was also agnostic. It's through his studies of religion he sort of decided along the way, like, hey, this is all, it seems like there's too many similarities to these things.

It's not in all these different cultures. And he started breaking down the etymology, the languages. And he came out with a book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross that was bought out by the Catholic Church. And the book essentially said the entire religion of Christianity is a giant misunderstanding. And what it really was about was about the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals. And that they had all these stories that they hid in parables and all this ancient knowledge that they hid in these tales. But that it all goes back to the consumption of psychedelic drugs.

And in fact, one of the weirder connections to that was in Israel. I mean, this is like very recently. These scholars at the University of Jerusalem had determined that what Moses was talking about when he saw the burning bush was actually the acacia bush, the acacia tree, which is rich in DMT. And that when we're talking about the burning bush and that it was God appeared to him in the burning bush, he was probably tripping. And that this was why he came down with these commandments for how to live life and how to govern yourself, that he was in communication with God. But what it really was most likely was him having a psychedelic experience. Wow.

That is all through ancient Christian religion. wow that is all through ancient christian religion you know there was a a guy named jack harrow who's like one of the one of the early um proponents of marijuana he was like a goldwater republican who uh got high with a girlfriend of his got went through a divorce got high with a girlfriend of his and had this idea of like marijuana being this terrible thing these fucking hippies are all lazy and but he meets this cool girl and he starts smoking pot and then became a pot activist and wrote a book called The Emperor Has No Clothes. And it's all about the origins of marijuana criminalization and what it really was all about

and that it actually was about industry and that the real people that started marijuana propaganda like those movies like Reefer Madness and stuff, that was Harry Anslinger and William Randolph Hearst. And William Randolph Hearst decided that he was going to demonize marijuana to stop the hemp industry. That was the original reason why he did it. Because the Popular Science Magazine had a cover in like 1937 or something like that called Hemp, the New Billion Dollar Crop. And it was all because they

had come up with a new machine called the decorticator and a decorticator was a new machine that allowed them to effectively process hemp fiber because before they used to use slaves and then when slavery was outlawed and then eli whitney came up with the cotton gin they switched all their their clothing from hemp based clothing cotton. And so they had done this for years, and then they had switched their paper from canvas, like original canvas, like even the Mona Lisa, was printed on hemp. All that stuff was hemp. Hemp is a far more durable paper, and it's a far more durable cloth. And so people's clothes, like old, really durable clothing, was made out of hemp.

And so William Randolph Hearst decided the best way to combat this new industry, instead of turning over his gigantic forests and converting them to hemp forests and converting his paper mills to hemp paper, he decided what he was going to do was kill the business. And so the way he killed the business was printing these stories about black people and Mexicans raping white women because they were on this new drug called marijuana. And what marijuana, the word was actually a slang for a Mexican wild tobacco. Didn't even have anything to do with cannabis. So when they made marijuana illegal, Congress didn't even understand that

they were making cannabis and hemp illegal. They thought it was a new drug and so he tricked them He tricked them because he ruined earned Hearst publications I mean that was one of the things that Orson Welles like when he made Rosebud Yeah, he made that movie he made a Citizen Kane about William Randolph Hearst Yes, because he was this insanely powerful guy that was just this fucking tyrant. Is Rosebud a bud? I don't know. Like, hey, good buds.

But that movie was about William Randolph Hearst. William Randolph Hearst is the reason why marijuana is still federally illegal in 2020. And this is in the 1930s. Like almost 100 years later, his propaganda still works. It is amazing because I, that's, you ever been to Hearst Castle? That's cool.

Yeah, yeah, I was there when I was a kid. It's crazy. Here's the reason why this whole fucking state is filled with wild pigs. That crazy asshole had wild pigs on his mansion. He had them roaming around, brought wild boars over from Europe. And so California, like San Jose, is infested with wild pigs. People who live in San Jose, they go out and wild pigs are fucking knocking over their trash and eating their lawn. That's William Randolph Hearst did that shit.

I had no idea. That's amazing. That crazy fuck was responsible for a lot of problems that we're still facing today. I had no idea, man. I mean, I know it. My knowledge is, I know the yellow journalism of it all. He's a bad guy. He's a fucking bad guy.

He had too much power. I mean, there was, there was, he, Hearst Publications was, you know, he had this insane amount of power to just print lies and he could shift the course of public perception to fit his own needs and to fit his businesses. I wonder if that happened today. No way.

In the media, what that would be like. Like fake news or something? I can't imagine. Can't do that today. People are too smart. No, could never do that today. Would never happen. Yeah.

It's amazing when you find out the history of why things are legal and illegal and what happened and where they went wrong. illegal and illegal and what happened and where they went wrong. You know, it's just, it's weird how long some things, like some propaganda can sink in and last for. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that entertainment is the ultimate form of it.

Oh, yeah. The ultimate. And also the ultimate form of combating it, which is what, you know, Orson Welles tried to do with Citizen Kane, kind of show. Like, and, you know, obviously he didn't name the guy William Randolph Hearst, but everybody knew what it was about. That movie is great. It's one of those movies that you hear as.

What's up, Jamie? I started looking something up about the pigs. And this article from the San Francisco Gate says it's a different guy named George Gordon Moore who brought them in the 1920s for hunting. I'm sure he did. But William Randolph Hearst most certainly had them at his castle. Maybe some of the ones around that area came from William Randolph Hearst's castle. Maybe that's where he got them from, that guy. But Hearst most certainly had them at his place.

In fact, Hunter S. Thompson used to hunt William Randolph Hearst's wild pigs. The ones that are around Big Sur, apparently. That's what people think. That's another gnarly place. That's a gnarly place. That's a place that also, like, did you see the fucking landslide they got? Yes. Shut down the 101 or the one for like. I just drove the one.

The PCH. I just drove the one two weeks ago up there and you cannot believe how much new construction they needed to do. It's open now. It's open now? Yeah. But it was closed for like a year. Yeah. Right?

I mean, when you look at the construction, you go, well, I can see why this took a year. Dude, I drove up there with my family once and I was so terrified. I was like, to the left is death. Yeah, it's amazing. It's crazy that you could just drive it. It's crazy.

It is one of the great, it's one of the great drives. It's a cliff. You're on the edge of a cliff. And if you're on the right side and someone just decides to turn into you you're done you're dead but you're like you're like 1500 feet up yeah and people die there all the time all the time yeah all the time you fall asleep at the wheel

you're fucked oh yeah turning around to get that selfie ah it's a crazy way to die someone died like that in malibu not that long ago. It was like Paris Hilton's photographer or something like that. It was a photographer. The guy in the Jeep? Was this this guy in the Jeep? I don't remember. But there was someone who he posted something on social media and he was dead right afterwards.

And their speculation was that he was looking at his phone when he went off the side yeah i remember hearing this yeah i know that there's that there are a couple turns right there in malibu that you know right below yeah sketchy as fuck yeah you're like california like that ride up to san francisco on the pch is fucking magnificent, though. It's so incredible. It is. It's not magnificent if you're in the back seat. It is not. You will get the car sickness of a lifetime. Yeah. There's a lot of turning.

I drove a Winnebago once. And you know the famous bridge that's in every car commercial on the one? I didn't realize that all the bikes that I had on the back were, like, too wide, I guess. And I destroyed every bike we had just gotten the family for Christmas on the back were like too wide, I guess. And I just, I destroyed every bike. We had just gotten the family for Christmas on that thing. It's like, you don't want, I was like Clark Griswold vacation driving that fucking thing. It was not good. Yeah.

People have that idea, right? We're going to take an RV and go across America. There's good things to that, but there's also, you know, your kids have to have a high tolerance for boredom. I remember when my family would drive me across the country, I'd have my book and Mad Libs and that was it. That's it. That's it.

Yeah. You didn't have anything else. I was watching a movie on my iPad. I was watching Milan. My kids have a different, they have a different kind of traveling now and people let them do it. I've let my kids do it just to shut them up, just so you get some peace. They wear you down.

Yeah. They beat you down. They wear you down. There's no way. Can you imagine here? Read a book and do some Mad Libs from here to Pocatello, Idaho. How long? When are we going to be there?

I have to pee. I'm hungry. Oh, brutal. Yeah. Brutal. But you've got to kind of force them to have some boredom. Just so they have those experiences. I remember when my parents took me to Yosemite when I was a kid.

And to this day, I remember those experiences. I remember our cooler got broken into by a bear. I remember hearing the bear outside the tent and waking up. And there was footprints on the hood of the car. So good. That's my big worry is that as a culture, we don't know what to do with boredom because we're never without the world at our fingertips. Yes. and she would go to the market and it felt like she was gone for five days she's probably looking back on it she was probably gone for 20 minutes but it felt like forever and i'm in that car as

a little boy i can remember it vividly and all i have is my mind and my imagination to kill the time that's it yeah and you know i think it's served me very well, but I don't know how many of us are getting that experience today. Not too many. I mean, grown adults are very rarely bored these days. And I think that that leads to a real problem with like creativity and imagination and also social media anxiety and all the, the nonsense that comes with just reading people's anger and just the way we interact with each other. I'm off Twitter. I still have a presence on it and I still use it from here to there. But I'm –

Good for you. And I didn't do the thing that makes me crazy. It's like, I'm leaving Twitter, everyone. It's like, shut the fuck up. Exactly. Just go. Just go, stupid. Do's like, shut the fuck up. Exactly. Just go. Just go, stupid. Do you know what I mean?

And then you check to see how people are reacting to you leaving Twitter? Yeah. Let me see what kind of interest that post generated. Yeah. I just, and I'm way happier. There's so many people that are just so addicted to saying something and seeing how people react to it. Oh, what's trending? I loved it.

I love checking what's trending on Twitter. It's fucking best. In this time and age, too, with Trump, it's just a terrible time because everyone's so angry. You go on Twitter and people are so furious. You can't have an opinion about anything. Everybody's mad.

If you do have an opinion, there's a million people that disagree and a million people that do agree and they're fighting it out to the death. Yeah. It used to be that consensus building or being in the middle of the road was accepted by the warring camps. Right. And now that's – silence is complicit.

Yes. Yes. So that's really the problem. That's why there's no middle anymore. Right. People are angry at you if you don't post an opinion that agrees with them. Like you can't even not post an opinion. They'll get mad at you.

I've heard people say, you know, hey, history will not be kind to the people that did not talk about this. I'm like, really? Like what? You can't tell people that they have to comment on things. That's ridiculous. You're forcing people to express opinions that they might not have even formed? Yeah, it's a – I mean, I have these talks with my boys because they're right in the thick of it. It's a new generation, obviously, and they have a totally different perspective on it.

They're growing up with it. They don't even know what it's like to have no internet. No, it's amazing. That's what's crazy. Isn't it? It's crazy. I remember vividly when it all happened. I remember I was on the West Wing,

and all of a sudden we went from pagers to BlackBerrys. I remember the first person who ever showed me an iphone was david crosby of all people oh wow yeah and i was like what is that thing you've got there and he had the one of the first iphones i wouldn't i was a late adopter because i was like that's bullshit i want buttons i was late at same i wanted buttons and i thought that it was somehow an iphone was less serious than a BlackBerry. Right. You're a business person.

I'm a serious person. Yes. I'm not, you know, and then I obviously succumbed. Everybody that I worked with on news radio had the BlackBerry that was the wide one that you did, the two-finger one. Yes. You know, everyone's doing the email off of it. It's very important to have a BlackBerry. Very. Blackinger one. Yes. You know, everyone's doing the email off of it. It's very important to have a BlackBerry.

Very. BlackBerry. Yes. And then they were called something else in the East Coast. Really? Yeah. It was like a RIM. RIM was the company.

And that's one of those great, I would love to do an anthropological look at how they get their clock cleaned. They had it. Oh, yeah. They had it oh yeah they had it they had it all yeah maybe they're gonna say that about iphone someday yeah somebody will come up but like what how do you how does it's like via vhs betamax yeah and it's like who who is this darwinism of the corporations is so interesting to me. Well, we remember Blockbuster Video. Oh, yeah. Who would have ever thought there'd be no video stores? Who would have ever thought that?

I thought it was a novelty, the idea you're going to have things on a hard drive. Like, what? I know. It's ridiculous. I remember the first person telling me, I have my music on my computer. I said, what do you mean you have your music on the computer? He said, yeah, I don't have any CDs. They're all here. But where are, yeah, I don't have any CDs. They're all here.

But where are your CDs? I don't have any. But wait, wait. Like, it shows you why. This is why we need ayahuasca. Because we can't understand simple shit like that. Well, the real question is what's next? That's the real question.

Like, what are we blind to that our children are you go remember back then when people streamed their music and streamed their movies do i have it with pod like my dad i'm like dad have you heard my podcast no where do i get them my dad literally and then he finally his wife found the my podcast and he goes and then this is my favorite he goes and then somebody called me but i didn't know how to shut it off and now I can't find it again I'm like Jesus Christ I wish my parents

didn't know about my podcast it'd be awesome do you get do you get people Joe I can't believe you said that yeah my wife listens now that's a problem

oh it's my wife could care fucking less about anything I do so it's great that's fucking perfect my wife's like I like that one

you did with I'm like ooh what did I say shut I know well that's the problem with him like what did i say shut i know well that's the problem with doing podcasts is you you it's a conversation it's not an interview so you forget the point is to forget yeah you talk a lot of shit talk a lot of shit yeah you get especially you get loose and then you're having fun and you talk like you would you're basically like i don't

really have a private voice and a public voice. Right. I just talk. If you and I were hanging out and there was no one around, I would have the same conversation with you. 100%. That's the problem. It's the problem, but that's the point. That's why people like it.

That's the point. Yeah. That's why people like podcasts. Give me one piece of advice I need to know. I'm seven episodes. I'm eight episodes in. Do exactly what you did right here. You're going to be great.

You're awesome at it. You think? Just talk. Yeah. You're a genuine person. You're an honest, genuine person. That's what resonates with people. It's like someone expressing their real feelings and thoughts about stuff.

Right. Yeah. That's what we're missing. You know, what's missing in overproduced stuff that executives and a team of people come up with, that you're missing the thing that resonates with people. There's a lot of podcasts that I love that are produced, like Radiolab or Wondery. I love Wondery. I love the stuff they put out.

And it's very produced, but it's different. I love Wondery, I love the stuff they put out. And it's very produced, but it's different. It's different between what people, people listen to us right now, they probably feel like they're in the room. They're having this conversation too, like they're agreeing or they're disagreeing, or they're yelling, shut the fuck up while they're driving. That's what the appeal is, is that it's not – this is a small crew of people that produces this. It's basically Jamie and myself and the video editors.

I mean, that's it. There's no one else. So because of that, it's not fucked with. And I know a lot of people that have podcasts on networks, and then they have meetings. I go, you have fucking meetings? And they tell me the nightmare meetings they have where people are like, well, they tune out when you say this. And they do this. Here's the stats.

You can't talk about that. Because if you do, I go, oh, my God, no. Really? Like, you look at that stuff? Like, you can't look at that stuff. How do you know if it's not good? I fucking hate everything I do. I know if it's not good because I don't like it.

So then i just do better just you don't want to like be looking at the stats like it's gonna fuck you up that's really good that's a good piece of advice yeah just do it you're doing great you're great at this you're a natural oh thanks i i will say that i'm having the fucking time of my life there you go perfect i'm having so much fun doing it. That alone will make it great. Yeah. I thought it was something that like it was a natural offshoot from the two memoirs I wrote. And then I built a one man show off of it, which is really a way of me doing stand up without calling it stand up really, you know, and I toured, did a lot of touring and it was fun and I loved it. And I was thinking

what's the next iteration of it? What was the subject of the one-man show? It was called Stories I Only Tell My Friends Live, which is the title of my first book, but it was me talking about my life. That was it. And by the way, the Oscar thing that we talked about, that's

the big closer. That's the big closer every do you play it for people i play i play it for people and and i go into my it just it becomes a very long shaggy dog story and people love it and then i do questions and and and i realized that you know there are a lot of actors there are a lot of actors that are better than me and you you try to find out what your special sauce is. Like, what is it that I think maybe I can do that maybe others can't? And I think between the books and the one-man show and the podcast, I think that there's something about sharing my experience and then bringing other people into it that people have responded to in now three different mediums.

Then you've got it. Being yourself and just being able to express your own unique perspective on life is what's interesting to people. If you can honestly express so like when people listen to you particularly if they listen to you over and over and over again for long periods of time they know if you're full of shit or if you're just being yourself and if you're just being yourself they can kind of relax with you they can get into you they can and then you tell them about things that you're interested in and tells them tell them about things that stimulated you or made you curious or affected you and inspired you.

You know, Springsteen says a great thing. He says the audience expects two things of you. They expect you to make them feel at home at the same time you're surprising them. Dude, let's end with that. That's perfect. Rob Lowe, I appreciate the fuck out of you. This was great, man. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. I This was great, man. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this, man. I really enjoyed it. Tell people the name of your podcast, how to get it. It's called Literally with Rob Lowe, and you can get it on Apple or Stitcher or Spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts. That was really fun. Thank you very much, man. Thank you.

Goodbye, people.