The Joe Rogan Experience - #1537 - Lex Fridman

Episode Date: September 16, 2020

Scientist Lex Fridman researches human-centered artificial intelligence and autonomous vehicles at MIT, and studies Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in his spare time. Check out his podcast “Lex Fridman Podcast���, available now on Spotify.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hello, Lex. Hey, Joe. Before we get started, how about that Colder Wall guy that I just played for you? How crazy is it that he was 21 when he made that song? Is he close to 21 right now? He's 25 now.

Yeah, he sounds like Johnny, like later Johnny Cash. Like Johnny Cash when he did Hurt. Is he close to 21 right now? He's 25 now. Yeah. He sounds like Johnny, like later Johnny Cash. Like Johnny Cash when he did Hurt. Yeah. You know? Like a pain, a depth,

a richness of his voice. So badass. It's weird. Like how do you, how do you get that at 21? I don't, he, I went to see him in like 14.

He probably developed early. Probably went through some shit in his life. There's got to be some whiskey in that story somewhere. Oh, yeah. He had to go through some real shit to have that voice and just the sensibility, just the mindset of those songs. That Kate McKinnon song, like Jesus Christ.

You have to listen to the whole song. It's crazy and it's that yeah one of the things I hope like with your Spotify thing is that you'd be able to play songs we want to but it's weird it's like they they've left open as they're trying to figure it out right all this stuff is basically there's a lot of work in progress trying to figure it out listen my dream here Spotify, if you're listening, my dream as a little boy is to play Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix on the Joe Rogan Experience

and not be nervous about it being taken down or something because I don't have the rights to cover the song or whatever. I wonder how that works for the artist well for someone like steve ray vaughan or jimmy hendrix they're both dead so it'd be the estate of the artist which oftentimes i believe probably makes it more slippery yeah because then you're dealing with people that you know kind of own it as a commodity rather than the actual artist itself but there's a difference between like the beatles and then the steve ray vaughn because what whoever owns steve ray vaughn you know is like a bad like mother effort you know they're not gonna it's not like corporate you would hope so but you never know man i mean he might have

had an ex-wife who sold it or who knows you know anyway spotify please make it happen i almost had the opportunity to drive steve ray vaughn once when I was driving limos. Oh, wow. Yeah, man, but he wouldn't take limos. He would always take a cab. So they'd have a limo, and the limo would pick up everybody else. Like all the other band members, all the other people, they would get in a limo. And Steve Ray Vaughan would get in a cab because he's that motherfucker. Yeah, just for the first time, actually.

Yeah, he is. He's real. He was real. He's a genuine human being i just for the first time listened to like an interview with him like i've never heard jimmy hendrix really talk or steve ray vaughn talk before this interview and he was really drunk in the interview and then i realized that there was uh there's a man behind the music i realized that there was uh there's a man behind the music there's a there's some pain there's some drinking and just just i don't know demons that he was running from i think there's like a a disconnect that you almost have to have from the normal mind to create that kind of sound there's sound like like when you go to um there's some some h songs, like Voodoo Child is a great one, right?

Just the sound in that guitar is so, he's so out there. He's so wild. You know, there's like a famous story where Eric Clapton first saw Steve Ray Vaughan play, and he was like, what in the fuck am I doing? Can you imagine as good as eric clapton is seeing uh did i say steve ray vaughn or jimmy hendrix i met jimmy hendrix i met jimmy hendrix did i okay but that eric clapton went and saw jimmy hendrix play live and was you know

he was such a talent that everybody else was like what are we doing like we yeah the cool thing is um i mean i don't know if you know but they eric clapton and jimmy hendrix both play um a fender strat it's just the same guitar so i can imagine and then eric clapton has this like warm smooth tone and i could just imagine eric clapton seeing like how the fuck did he get that sound out of that thing? How did you pull that off? Well, still, Eric Clapton has some amazing fucking songs and amazing sound. I mean, Layla, that song Layla, god damn, is that a good song. Both acoustic and electric.

He has an acoustic version. Oh, really? MTV used to do this thing. Unplugged? Unplugged. Yeah. So he played like Tears in Heaven Which is a hard When he

Lost his son right Yeah His son fell off of a balcony Yeah There's so much pain in that song Oof And then there's the badass songs What is it

Do do do Whatever Cocaine Cocaine Down down down Down down Yeah I mean The thing about his music Versus Hendrix is it was brilliant i mean he eric

clapton is uh i shouldn't say was because he's still alive is a brilliant musician brilliant but the sound falls in line meaning it it all seems brilliant and purposeful and uniform. And the songs are amazing. But it falls in line. Whereas, you know, those shit that Hendrix would do. He was out there. It was like this new thing, man. It was just, he was gone. And he was fucking in his 20s. He died. He was 27 there. It was like this new thing, man. It was just, he was gone.

And he was fucking in his 20s. He died, he was 27 years old, which is so crazy. And technique-wise, I mean, I know you don't play guitar, but technique-wise, he just didn't follow any conventions. He was just like, he had this thumb, he put it over the top, and just like, it was messy. And the way he played rhythm wasn't how anyone played rhythm. It wasn't like like three chords it was three chords but every time he played those chords they're always

different they always messed with it he always like threw in a little chaos and there's songs like machine gun yes i love that song just like where where did that come from there's so many songs they're like where, if Six was Nine. Like, that song. Like, what is that? What is that? Like, he just, it's, a lot of it is drugs. That's the truth.

Yeah. I mean, you know. That's the sad truth. Yes and no. I mean, it's sad in that he's not here anymore. But it's not sad in that what he accomplished in his 27 years on this planet still to this day haunts guitarists. Like, if you ask professional guitarists, there was a million brilliant guitarists. I mean, there's so many. You know, some people are big fans of eddie van halen i mean i think to this day steve ray vaughn's version of voodoo child is it's it's you know

you always have to give the best credit to the original which is jimmy but steve ray vaughn's voodoo child is fucking amazing and it's him it's clearly him yeah he's playing it with his tongue i mean i've said it a million times that's i named this podcast i stole the name from jimmy hendrix the joe rogan experience came from the jimmy hendrix experience yeah nothing nothing like him i just always been a odd leech attracted to him you know that's a weird word to use but that's what it is like attracted to his music and attract like him there's something about him that just always resonated with me. The old studio, I had the Hendrix mug shot up.

He also represents the 60s and also this psychedelic thing, experience. Not in this cheesy way, but in a really out there way. Yeah, genuine. Genuine there way. Yeah, genuine. Genuine, yeah. Yeah, authentic. I mean, the fun tension, because you're a health guy. You talk about how to be healthy, how to almost have a balance. But then at the same time, you say that you celebrate the self-destruction that led to the genius of Jimi Hendrix. It's not that I celebrate the self-destruction that led to the genius of jimmy hendrix it's not

that i celebrate the self-destruction the self-destruction is an unfortunate aspect of that path right and there's a lot of uh weirdness to jimmy hendrix death i don't know if you know like he had a a gangster manager who apparently had him kidnapped just so that he could rescue him and convince jimmy that you know he was his savior there's a book that was written on it well that accuses this manager of killing jimmy hendrix and saying that uh they also threw his girlfriend off a roof when she did either jump off a roof or was thrown off a roof and died shortly afterwards because she knew too much or whatever uh who the fuck knows it was one of uh hendrix bodyguards or someone who worked for the manager that wrote the story but the thing about that path the path of drugs and destruction it's been

um it's been a path of many of my idols whether it's's Kinison or Richard Pryor or even Hicks. Hicks died from cancer, but a lot of that is probably attributable to him chain smoking and just a lot of drugs and stuff when he was younger and just destroyed his life. And then it's also like pancreatic cancer is a genetic thing as well. You never really know what's causing pancreatic cancer. Well, your conversation with Mike Tyson actually symbolizes this in a really interesting way for me because here you have like one of the greatest fighters ever who somehow found inner peace through the whole like marijuana thing. peace through the whole like marijuana marijuana thing but just the way he was behaving just was positivity and just this good vibes putting him out there and yet he now for at least brief moment

in his life rediscovered the darkness like i was i was watching your podcast with him and the moment when you said like you were like having another level chat he just took you like a few levels up by saying like that you know when he thinks about hurting people sometimes it's orgasmic it's orgasmic yeah and you you try to laugh it off but there's like memes of he's like no i'm serious well i mean i i was laughing i mean i wasn't really trying to laugh it off i was laughing at at the madness of it. What did that make you? By the way, Donald Trump retweeted a clip of that. I don't know what to make.

Politically, I don't know what the context of that. He retweeted Mike Tyson saying it was erotic. Trump's like an old comedian who just happens to be president. Really. I mean, the same kind of behavior that a comedian has the timing like his timing like when the thing about hillary clinton you'd be in jail remember that the timing of that when they were doing a debate and she she said something about uh him being it's painful to i i went back and watched those debates. It's painful to watch. It makes me, as somebody who wants to see truth and positivity win out in the world,

it pains me to think about the debates between Biden and Trump. I don't think they're going to happen. You don't think so? No. I think the people in the Democratic Party are too wise. I think it's possible that Kamala Harris might debate Pence. I think that's probably – and I think she'll do really well against Pence. Pence is a bit robotic and careful and evangelical and super Christian.

I think she'll probably do very well in those debates, especially – well, there's no audience. See, that's the thing, man. Those debates, a lot of it was like getting them zingers in. Yeah. I think Trump needs an audience. Like a comedian, you said. I think he needs the. It would certainly help.

The crowd to work off of. How do you say Donald Trump Jr.'s girlfriend's name? Kimberly. How do you say it? Like Guilfoyle, I you say it like gilfoyle i think is that gilfoyle i don't i'm the way it's written is like why are we pretending that this is this is like the correct use of these letters because you shouldn't put all those letters together like that like fix that um but there's a a great video that someone put together, and I retweeted it or reposted it, of her screaming this message to an empty room, and then there's a beaver on the top of a mountain.

Yeah, yeah, I saw it. This is the thing that happens. The internet is amazing. The internet's the best. It's undefeated. There's a thing about doing stuff in audiences. Like, here it is. Play this.

Play this. It's so good. Your destiny. You are capable. Oh, this isn't the right one. It's still just... Find it on my Instagram. It's on my Instagram.

But it's so funny because it's like, people are doing standup these days on Zoom. And it's bad. Like really good comics look terrible doing standup to no audience. Yeah, it's just not how comedy is supposed to be. It's like, it's like, you know how you have a battery

and you're charging a battery, you have to put something on the, here, play it real quick. It's so good. Leaders and fighters for freedom and liberty and the American dream, the best is yet to come. Ah! can dream the best is yet to come there's something about a beaver screaming at the top of his life on the top of a mountain it's so top of a mountain. It's so perfect.

Yeah. It's so perfect. It's 2020 and I'm not sure right now. But it's so perfect. That beaver by himself on the top of that mountain just screaming. Timing is genius. It's amazing.

Whoever made that, thank you. Thank you. Whoever you are. But there's comics that are doing stand-up in these Zoom things, and it's like, you know how you charge a battery, you have to connect the positive, and then you have to connect the negative. There's two cables that you have to connect the two of them together.

If you only connect one, it doesn't work. Well, that's how it is with standup. You have to have an audience. It's one of those art forms that you need to have a reaction. The people have to be there. You feed off of them. You create comedy with them. And in a lot of ways, one of the things that Trump does outside of these speeches and get everybody excited about things, he's doing stand-up. He tells jokes. He talks shit. He gets laughs. Like they were saying, like there was an interview with one of the debates. You've said terrible things about women.

You've called women pigs. You've called them this. And he goes, wait, wait, wait, only Rosie O'Donnell. He says this, and the audience goes crazy and laughs. They told to not respond they're told to not respond the audience are told they can't help it he just nailed it he fucking nailed it and it's like a comic old comic and i don't know if he's the same guy as he was back then just honestly just being honest the same way i would talk about a fighter like Like, Father Time wins every time. If you listen to interviews of Donald Trump, maybe from the 90s, he is a different guy.

Yes. He's sharper. I mean, I don't want to be ageist. He's not ageist. It's just reality. I mean, no one gets better when they're 100. It's not like the guy's 100 and all of a sudden he runs faster, he talks better, he's reading more and writing more, he sees better. No, we're dying.

We're all dying slowly, okay? And I don't know what kind of pressure being the president is, but I can only imagine. It's almost unmanageable. And he's managed it better than anybody I've ever seen. But the reality is, it's still pressure you're still still father time wears on you the the the river beats down the rocks and smooths them out there's no way around it it's just it is what it is so whether or not he's still got that kind of timing that's a that's a real question but if him and biden get into a debate situation and he hits biden with a couple of zingers like that,

I mean, I don't... So how do you think Biden might get out of the debates? He's going to have to get out of the debates. I mean, if they're smart, if I was a Democratic strategist, there's no fucking way I would let him debate. Like, listen, we're winning because the only reason why people are winning, the only reason is because they want Trump out of office. You could have, if Pete Buttigieg was in the position that Biden was in,

it would be, I mean, he would have a much stronger, like so many, much stronger response from people, right? Young person, speaks well. If Tulsi Gabbard was in that position dude she could be president I know the Democrats for whatever fucking reason didn't want her to be but if she got into those that position when she was debating if she was debating with Trump and people saw her and saw her record saw the fact that she served overseas twice saw the fact she's been a congresswoman for six years saw how well she speaks how honest she is and just the integrity of the character

that you can see in the way she carries 100 see the one of the big problems is the democratic nomination process happened before coronavirus yeah so like we were in kind of a lack the economy was doing well but you know things are going just regular and so you kind of the the boring generic candidate won out what we need now is a great like inspiring leader yeah not somebody who is you know joe biden's strategy currently is to just sit back and don't say anything and let trump destroy himself well every time he says something he jumbles his words up and he fucks things up and he forgets where he is and it's like you know he's had multiple brain surgeries more than that yeah oh yeah i can play you some shit i mean like it's kind of crazy hey jamie

have ever played you this one i'm gonna i'm gonna send this to you jamie but the look but the contrast with like andrew yang i don't know if you listen to andrew yang these days but he's andrew's like teeming with ideas yes, with excitement, with a passion of different ways of things we can do. That's what we need now is an inspiring leader that unites. Brett Weinstein is on his big, as he talked about on your podcast, like uniting, having basically a center-left and a center-right candidate, just uniting the nation. Yeah, I'm sending this to you right now, Jamie. Sorry.

Uh-oh. But yeah, so the uniting the nation versus dividing. Andrew's a really interesting guy. Like, he's not the standard, you know, like what you're looking for from a guy who's running for president. One of the biggest things he's known for is universal basic income. He's basically saying, hey, guys, look, automation is coming and there's going to be a lot of people out of work. And how bright does he look now that we have seen that not automation, but the pandemic took out so many of these jobs, and we did need universal basic income.

It really was important. And that same sort of a situation could happen with that next. I mean, from what we're dealing with now to what we could be dealing with with another pandemic plus automation, you're going to see a lot of people that are out of work. And it went from a place of people wanting economic prosperity to, hey, let's just make sure that people don't lose their houses. Let's make sure that people can eat. Let's make sure that people have a roof over their head. And that's really where we were in the middle of the pandemic.

But the big thing, whether you agree on automation and the rest of basic income or not, it doesn't matter. The point is, besides besides ubi he's a source of a giant number of ideas and he presents them in a way not saying republicans are wrong and democrats are right but saying let's together figure out which of these ideas are right yes he basically has an idea for everything the the purple belt yes that's that's even more brilliant than ubi now in this divisive time of policing have every cop

get a purple belt at least a purple belt from a legit Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor maybe blue belt, second stripe like learn a triangle know how to defend yourself there's so many ridiculous videos I was watching there's an account I follow

on Instagram called police posts and it's basically a police oriented uh instagram page you know it's like four cops educating cops and and talking about situations and they show a lot of like situations where cops uh overestimate their ability to to handle things physically and they get fucked up and one of them today was this guy gets rolled over and beaten up he just doesn't know what he's doing and you know and that wouldn't happen if you were talking about someone that's purple belt i heard i don't know if this is true but i heard in some places like new york uh rear naked chokes they're illegal illegal now which is like which

which we should expand the jiu-jitsu uh training to the people in government too because it doesn't make any sense it's one of the most safe ways to pacify somebody well i think a lot of it had to do with eric gardner situation right where that guy got but the thing about the eric gardner situation is they should have never fucked with that guy and they should have never they should never manhandled him in the first place. Forget about choking him. They should have left him alone. All the guy was doing was hanging out in the corner selling loose cigarettes.

Now, oh, I have a cough button. Hold on. Let me try it. Did it work? Better. Jamie? Sorry, but the other mic picked it up. We should press it like in unison, yeah.

Contrast this idea that they were going after this guy for loose cigarettes based on what happened after the george floyd protests where people were smashing windows and stealing things out of stores and the cops were just standing there right because shit got so crazy that they let people just loot and smash windows and steal things meanwhile they killed a guy who was just selling loose cigarettes all he was doing is standing there he presented no threat he was just trying to make a couple bucks selling cigarettes and they grabbed him threw him to the ground and were choking him um i think that in public perception so what's the solution to that how do you get that those cops out, those humans out?

I think you need way better training, and you need a lot of training. And Jocko Willink talked about it, and he had a great position. He thinks that they should be spending 20% of their time training. And this idea of defunding the cops, he goes, no, you need more funding. You need more funding and more training, and you need to get rid of the ones that suck. And you need a really stringent process of elimination, the same way they have in the SEALs, seals same way they have in the rangers you get rid of the people with weak character and there's a lot of people with weak character that wind up being police officers and those are the ones that you're seeing but there's also a lot of people with strong character that do an amazing job and no one cares

about that you don't get a lot of those because what we're seeing is the videos that go viral are almost always bad. There's one really good video from the beginning of the George Floyd protest where this one cop in Flint gets together and says to this group of people that's protesting, we're with you. We will march with you. We're not in opposition. We're in this community, and I'm here to be your friend.

I'm here to help out. And that's what we're here doing as police officers. And they hug this guy, and they're all hugging each other, and then they walk together. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. I mean, it brings a tear to your eye. That's what we want, right? We want people that are police officers that have, like, strong character, someone who's, like, an exceptional human being.

I think that's who you have to be to have that job. And defunding the police is not a solution to that in any kind of way. I mean, this is what I think most people probably don't realize is, yeah, it takes an exceptional human being to be a police officer in a sense that you have to be, especially in these times, you have to be patient because basically a large percentage of the population is at best skeptical, at worst hate you. Especially now. Yeah, especially now. And during all that, you have to still maintain calm. You have to establish control. You have to help people. You have to serve the community, all those things. It takes an exceptional man or woman to do that that and it's depressing to think because the exceptional humans in our society who would want to join the police force now well i i talked about this with edward

snowden recently one of the things that we said was that what what really needs to be done is we need to do something at the root cause of it. Why are there still these deeply impoverished communities in this country that haven't changed since the 60s? And there's been no work done to try to improve them. Or whatever work has been done has been ineffective. They're still crime-ridden. They're still gang-ridden. They're still filled with violence.

That's why there's so much crime. There's so much crime because there's, there's so many communities that it's just like deeply entrenched in what they are, whether it's South side of Chicago or parts of Detroit. I mean, if you want to lower crime, you have to increase economic opportunity. You have to increase education. You have to make people feel like they're in a safer environment. You have to do something to make these neighborhoods better. Now, I'm a moron. I'm not the person to figure that out. I don't know how you make a neighborhood better, but it's not impossible. And when you look at the amount of money that they spent on stimulus to try to help these businesses during the pandemic that were suffering, like why couldn't they do the exact same thing in the past to these cities?

Why couldn't they treat that like a pandemic, a pandemic of violence and crime that needs to be remedied? Yeah, this whole, the sad thing about the way the stimulus is being distributed, at least my worry is that it creates a greater gap in wealth, wealth disparity versus a lesser one. So all the problems you're mentioning, it's only going to make them worse. So people who are not well off are going to become worse. The opportunity for jobs is going to be lesser. The opportunities for people who are going to lose their businesses, that means their dreams are broken essentially. And the people who worked for the people who are going to lose their businesses. That means their dreams are broken, essentially,

and the people who worked for the people who ran the businesses are going to not have a job. And all of that creates a greater disparity within those communities, greater desperation. And in desperation, I've been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a great book. I recommend it highly. It talks about the 30s and the rise of fall of the third reich great book i recommend it highly it talks about the 30s and the rise of hitler and germany and the pain both economic and psychological

turns into this like dark energy that can be uh combined with a charismatic leader to go into a direction of hatred versus love and progress. And that's terrifying. I don't think we have a competent, charismatic leader that would do that in the positive or negative direction. But I do hope a leader arises that uses that energy of pain to do something good in a positive way and we need that like i think i think people don't realize how much pain there is being experienced right now like most people in real pain don't have a podcast don't have a voice yeah and like they don't have a job and everyone's kind of in this holding position but the reality is

like once the economy opens up slowly and slowly there's going to be that the the remnants of the pain experience in this year is going to be there people have lost their savings people have lost their dreams that materializes itself just like it did in germany in in bitterness and hatred and that can create revolutions that can create unstoppable destructive forces especially when combined with an ideologue that's terrifying to me people should definitely study there's this kind of this discussion of hitler recently you know that everyone says either Obama is Hitler or Trump is Hitler. It's kind of... Who said Obama's Hitler?

When Obama was president, that was... Really? Yeah. Because... What the fuck? This is what people do. I mean, you know, using the military industrial complex to control the population, that kind of idea. And, you know, the thing is you have to separate Hitler, the evil person that created the Holocaust,

from the general evil charismatic leader that took the country into— used nationalism to take the country into a dark place in the 30s. Those are two different stories. I don't think we're going to have ever something, hopefully, any atrocity like the Holocaust. But it's possible that the pain that people feel will be taken, would be taken advantage of by a charismatic leader to take steps back, not forward. That's a real worry.

Yeah, I don't see that leader on the horizon, but the other problem is even a positive leader. The way politics work in America, everyone is so accustomed to people chopping people down so much so that one of the things that it's weird about kamala harris being with joe biden is that you know she was she was talking like terrible things about him during the primaries i mean when she was running against him in the primary she said horrible things about him and then when they brought it up on the colbert show she was like it was a debate it was a debate like is that what a debate is like by any means necessary you'll distort your own views of a person in order to diminish that person so that you can succeed and they fail or do you really mean that and that's why you said it in the debate and you're willing to compromise whatever your ethics or your morals or whatever your perceptions of this person are, because you

want to be vice president. It's one or the other. Either one's not good. And I think it speaks to just the standard way that people debate and that people run for president in this country. It's about tearing the other people down. It's not about what you can do, what you want to do. What's your vision? It's about how bad that other person is going to do at the job, how bad that other person has done at the job. What a terrible person they are. Let's distort their character. Yeah, so turning into a game, a rap battle. I mean, my worry is that we're going to get in 2024 or 2028 Donald Trump Jr. versus like AOC. So you basically take like the most entertaining Instagram accounts or whatever and the most divisive ones. Who's going to have the best memes of tearing each other down? It'll become a reality show. And, of course, the media would love that because it makes – it draws more eyes because we generally are drawn to controversy, to drama, and funny drama.

Like this kind of shallow, derisive kind of conversation basically trolls on both sides. We're drawn to that as opposed to the Andrew Yang type folks who who are like let's all get along and let's hear some ideas that's why he's so refreshing right yeah exactly and it also you know he's an entrepreneur it's a different kind of human being that is running into the race not a career politician he's a guy who genuinely thinks he can help yeah and young yeah young there's something to that just that fresh energy not compromised too not compromised by that that fucked up system when you deal with someone like joe biden who's a 50 year politician like my god like you're so it's so entangled you're so encrusted into that

he probably doesn't even he hasn't he's almost unable to think original thoughts at this time because you've been in the system for so long. You can't sit back, Elon Musk style, think from first principles. Like, okay, here's a new problem. What are the ways we've been doing it previously? It hasn't worked. How can we do it differently?

Let's all cut the bullshit. I know there's a bunch of like ties lobbyists money interest let's put all that aside how do we like what are we supposed to do we're supposed to we're supposed to represent the people we're supposed to do something great for this country how do we do that and and fire again this is a destructive creative creative destruction. Fire everybody who has the entrenched old school assumptions that haven't worked. Fire everybody and hire new energy.

Well, you'd have to revamp the system too. There's so much to do. Well, this is the time to do it. And there's a hunger for that. I think there's a hunger for a populace that wants to revamp the system it doesn't matter whether or not they'd actually be able to do it i mean there's so many checks and balances in place to sort of prevent that from happening because they were worried about someone doing it for the wrong reasons well that what if there's a

positive view on our current president donald trump is he showed showed that you don't have to follow the rules. You don't have to follow the rules of the system. You can just fire everybody. Checks and balances, you just need to ignore them. I mean, that should be inspiring to positive leaders. Say, you know what? Even if I'm young, even if I'm an AOC-type character or whatever on the right, even Donald J. Trump,

junior, sorry, Donald Trump. Is he also a J? I don't know. Well, he's junior, so he must be a J. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. The way junior works, you have to have the same middle name as well. It has to be a perfect match. Okay. I believe so. Isn't that correct? I'm pretty sure, yeah. Well, yeah. So, yeah, that should be inspiring to young leaders to say you can revamp the whole system. That was one of the criticisms of Barack Obama is that he talked about change and he hasn't really changed much. Yeah. And I think it's possible to change. I think there's something gross about juniors. Yeah.

Just the name, Junior. Like, how can you be your own fucking person? The third, the fourth. Oh, God. Thurston Howell III. It's like the queen. Like from Killigan's Island. Yeah, it's weird.

Like, come on, Dad. Can't you come up with another fucking name, you unoriginal twat? You know? How about give me a different name? Yeah. I got to walk around with junior donald the fourth lex friedman junior yeah this little lex yeah and have like multiples like that's the yes like the sound he has a lex it's a tradition how about george foreman you know he

names all his kids george george all of them that's I think even his daughters. Really? That can't be true. That cannot be true. It's true. And then you have, on the opposite side, Elon Musk, who names his kids random letters of the alphabet. Yeah, he named his kid after a jet and all kinds of other weird shit.

They're not all. He's named a few daughters, other things, apparently. Oh, George has? Yeah. Well, he's got a lot daughters other things apparently oh george has yeah well he's got a lot of kids right there's also there's a georgetta and uh yeah yeah that's that's a weird move ms pat had something on her instagram about nfl players yesterday about uh like seven nfl players have fathered 52 children from 48 there was one guy who had like 26 kids a couple years ago or something like that so crazy teach that man about condoms good lord sir yeah that that there's no way you're

taking care of all those kids this one has 14 someone has 14 kids it has 350 grand or so a year to support eight of them. He has to pay. Only eight of them? Wow, man. What about the other ones? Hey, they all got different deals, I guess. Oh, boy. It's too easy to make people.

The problem is it's pleasurable, and we're all super drawn to it because it's part of our DNA to be sexually attracted to whoever. And that's how you make people. It's crazy. It's like hunger making people. Because people used to die so easily because we don't run fast. And we're basically like water balloons. And died close to at a young age often because uh just medicine advanced

so much that we're able to save kids sure nutrition infections all that kind of stuff yeah i don't i can't i haven't looked into this carefully but uh there's uh there seems to be a lot of debate about whether to worry about overpopulation or not like I've posted these projections of the population when we're going to reach 10 trillion people, billion people, and there's a lot of debate of whether that is, like we should be worried about or not. On the one side, the natural carrying capacity of Earth,

people say that we have way more resources than we need. It's not to worry about. It's nothing to worry about. But it's about how those resources are allocated, right? Right. It's like some places are very resource poor, but they have high populations. And that's a gigantic problem. And most of the population growth in the 21st century will be in Africa.

If you look at the models, inrica will have i believe more people than the rest of the world by like the end of the century if the population continues like this if you talk about large families they're happening in africa the thing about africa though is it actually can fit most of the world in it when you realize how big africa is i had no idea until we started doing this podcast and jamie pulled up this image of like europe and asia and the united states and all these other countries stuffed into the continent of africa it's only then you realize how big africa actually is so it kind of makes sense yeah space wise but yeah and but also resource wise there i mean um

there's a lot of people suffering in Africa. That's something that we keep a blind eye to, but there's real suffering. Poverty. It's interesting that some animals have mating seasons. Like deer have mating seasons. They go into the rut in the fall, and then the does are in estrus, and they give out the scent. And the bucks go crazy. And they're chasing them all around.

But they only do it once a year. And in the spring, they give birth to the new fawns. And this is like, it's really common in the wild for animals to have a season. Do chimps? No. No, no, no. Our people? No.

I wonder if there's ups and downs. So humans have a mating season around like christmas the holidays and then it goes down in the in the january month i think it's only game animals meaning animals that are prey and i think predators just go buck wild i think predators breed whenever the fuck they want to you know i don't know if that's true though I mean I don't know like if like lions and tigers for instance I know I had a bit that I used to do about tigers because I watched this Discovery Channel show but they said when the female tiger is in season the male can mate with her as many times as 52 in a day Wow

yeah so they just get after it but I don't know how long that lasts, like when they're in heat. Jamie, could you look up the mating seasons for lions, please? Yes, please. Here it goes. In captivity, lions often breed every year, but in the wild, they usually breed no more than once in two years. Females are receptive to mating for three or four days within a widely variable reproductive cycle. During this time,

a pair generally mates every 20 to 30 minutes with up to 50 copulations for 24 hours. Woo! That sounds weirdly like my life, actually. Once in two years.

It's good. Well, maybe you're a predator, sir. Yeah, but it's interesting maybe you're a predator sir yeah why but it's interesting the wildly that the reproductive cycles it's like it's not predictable like like like a prey animal you know but I would also think that nature probably over the course of millions of years balances that out with overpopulation right they realize like hey if there's too many lions like what what eats lions very few things eat lions right it's occasionally a hyena will get one with a broken leg and they'll

take it out but the reality is mostly it's lions doing the eating so like you can't have too many of them yeah but like deer and things like that well fuck man they they they make babies and then they can like literally overwhelm a resource area if there's no predators. So you have to have predators. So there's some sort of a balance. Nature sort of figured out the best way to keep the animals healthy is to only have them breed once a year. Yeah, it's amazing how evolution finds a balance for all kinds of things. I think you mean God, but that's okay.

I'll let you get away with that. God and Jesus, yeah. Don't you know we're in Texas, bro? Yeah. Guns, God, America, whiskey, scotch. It is amazing. I mean, natural selection and just evolution in general is so fascinating.

You know what's amazing is, I talked to Sarah Seeger, there's this whole group of people that look for life. I don't know if you know what's amazing is, I talked to Sarah Seeger, there's this whole group of people that look for life. I don't know if you know what exoplanets are. Yeah. Like, they look for life out there. You know, some people think that there's Jupiter, moon of Jupiter, Europa has, I mean, it's fascinating to think that there's life currently, or at least recently on Mars, you know, and it's fascinating to think that there's life currently or at least recently on mars you know and it's fascinating to think what the evolutionary process on those planets has resulted in yeah because and when we show up i talked to somebody i forget who oh i think a biologist

the colleague faculty at mit uh he mentioned that because my worry would be if we encounter life on another planet they would it would be destructive to us humans like or we to them one or the other like because it's entire I mean they can like I you know with this virus we're experiencing now my natural thought I don't know what I'm talking about with biology but my natural thought would be like when you touch that life it might basically be a parasite take advantage of you somehow sure but he said that likely it would be there's a certain kind of distance that happens if they're if it's far enough away in terms of the kind of energy it uses the the kind of environment it's

adapted to that it basically won't even notice humans. Like, it won't know how to take advantage of the resources we provide. So, like, that's a hopeful message that we basically could study it safely. But isn't that just, like, purely speculative? Because if it's in the Goldilocks zone and you have something that is also carbon-based,

biological life that has a similar temperature range that it exists in, it easily could eat us. Yeah, it depends. You know? Yeah, from inside. Like Pandorum in Avatar, that planet. I always felt like that movie was so interesting because it's close, right? It's close.

Whatever it is is like not Earth, but it's close whatever it is is like not earth but it's close and the things that live there are not they're not human but they're close like you could kind of see that it's good enough it's close enough like the animals and all the weird creatures in the jungle and in the avatar movie but thing is most likely life would be not close right Right, most likely. It'll be, that's the, I told you about David Fravor, who I've talked to recently. By the way, thank you for, I renamed my podcast to just my name, Lex Friedman. When I heard you tell that to Joey, Joey Diaz. Yeah. Sadly, people should go listen to Joey's's last he did he recorded his last church

of what's happening now absolutely yeah so you suggested to him that he should do some new thing totally and just name it after himself and i was like why the am i have some silly name like artificial intelligence just just name it like the joe rogan experience just i named it lex friedman pocket yeah i I talked to David for four hours. Yeah, why did I bring that up? David Fravor, you were talking. Let's explain who David Fravor was. He's a fighter jet pilot for the Navy,

and he discovered a UFO off the coast of San Diego that when they tracked it, went from 60,000 feet to one feet in a second or less. They don't know how fast it went because it's, you know, the blip of a radar, but the thing traveled in an insane way that defies all of our understanding of propulsion, all of our understanding of physics. And this thing also actively was blocking their tracking systems which

is an act of war if it you know if the soviet union or china was doing that that's technically an act of war so this thing was doing something that showed that it was intelligently aware of the fact that they are using tracking devices to try to lock in on it and it behaved and moved in a way that defies all of our understandings of propulsion systems. It didn't give off any heat signature, and the people from the Navy that he was communicating with saying, yeah, we see these every now and again. We don't know what the fuck they are.

So the thing I was going to say, there's a lot of interesting things to say about this boat, but I just remembered that it felt like from that entire experience that because it didn't have a Chinese or Russian flag on it, whatever he saw, is we tend to just the entire system doesn't want to acknowledge it. Like you just you don't know what to do with it. So they actually most of like when you return back to the ship and there's a bunch of pilots that uh put you know that saw it there's there's a lot of people that witnessed it and there's also the video you know the majority of the people didn't know what to do with it they just went on with their day like nothing happened uh you know they kind of made fun of each other whatever before you know uh yeah yeah sure bro you saw aliens but like they didn't they didn't

know how to comprehend it that that's what i meant like if we encounter life from elsewhere in the universe we think we would be uh as a population excited but it feels like just like with book bigfoot we want we're excited by the mystery when they're like when they're just out of reach. But when they're among us, there's so many mysteries and incredible things among us that we just kind of take them for granted. We don't even... Or ignore them, actually. Even worse. We ignore them.

We get used to things. And that was the weird thing the the biggest mystery to me about uh what david favor saw and a lot and then also with the the other videos in 2014 something like that to go fast is like it wasn't a bigger deal than i thought it would be well the big deal was when the pentagon came out and said that they have recovered some vehicles that are not of this world. Now, they didn't expand on that. There hasn't been more conversation about that.

But my, this is purely speculation, my speculation is they are slowly spoon-feeding us information to allow people to be more comfortable with the inevitable arrival of something. If they believe that something's coming, they don't want it to happen all at once. You see what happens just with the pandemic. You see what happens with George Floyd. You see what happens with any time there's a big shock to our system and there's chaos in the streets, it's unmanageable. And if the UFOs came in the middle of something like that, like Jesus Christ,

like who the fuck knows what would go down. If I was someone who's in a position of power, I would say, listen, this information is going to get out. It's inevitable. So why don't we let people know now, just give them just in words, say we have recovered crafts that are not of this world. Say something crazy like that. Print it in the New York Times. Get it out there. And then slowly drip out more information when they see these videos they'll get more and more accustomed to it and then eventually to be like masks like you walk down

the street everybody has a mask on you don't even think about it yeah but okay so let me you know i'm saying yeah i totally and this is such a fascinating question if the government is in possession of an alien spacecraft what is the right way to uh release that information the real problem is if if it's more potent than any weapon that any than any civilization has currently on this planet so if the united states is in control of this vehicle that is more potent and can do things that like if you really do have something that can go from 60,000 feet to one foot in under a second that mean that's that defies all of our understandings of speed right I mean that's so fast if you could do that well

there's arguments against because it could be human created technology too that's just 15 20 20, 30 years out. Like the stealth bomber was developed secretly. So what defies – it's our perception of its movement capabilities is what defies. But there could be some tricks on perception that – I mean that's the whole point with a stealth bomber is it's difficult to detect. Sure. stealth bomber is it's difficult to detect. Sure. And so there could be same kind of tricks on perception that you could just be playing

different kinds of amazing secret human created technology that is able to deceive the human eye. That's a good point. I mean, but the thing about it is they tracked it. It wasn't just that it was the human eye that saw this and it's deceptive, but also like the stealth bomber, you know, the way it's designed, it blocks radar or radar doesn't catch on to it. I think it is possible that some human created technology that's so far advanced from anything that we're currently – that we currently understand. that we currently understand,

like in terms of like mainstream propulsion experts and fighter pilots like David Fravor and military people, it is possible that some civilization, one of the big civilizations on this planet, whether it's China or Russia, has come up with something that's above and beyond what everybody knows. But it's not likely. It's not likely that they've made that much of a leap.

In your sense, on the other side, if it's alien technology, see, I'm more optimistic. To me, as a scientist and engineer, and actually David Faber says this too, in this time of pandemic, in this time of just hard, negative news everywhere, there would be nothing more inspiring than the government in an inspiring like Neil deGrasse Tyson way coming out and saying we have not releasing the videos like they did which

is I don't know if you know but they just put the videos on a website like there's not there's nothing he's just videos it's just like would like some boring documents and describe like nothing they're not inspiring we're not talking about like neil degrasse tyson or like carl sagan cosmos style like a beautiful inspiring what is more inspiring than an alien spacecraft look here's a there's a fascinating mystery here there's nothing more inspiring to us humans than that there's life out there intelligent life out there, intelligent life out there. But how would you handle it? Like, let's imagine.

Let's imagine you are the leader of the United States, and you find out, or whatever, the head of the Navy military intelligence program, whoever you are, you're a person that's in a position where you realize that this thing is from another world, and you have this responsibility to try to somehow or another publicize this yeah i would i would exactly i would i would approach it a hundred percent from the perspective of science here's a mystery so forget weapon like you're you mentioned there's this inclination to think like how can I figure out a way to use this as a weapon to destroy Russia or China? As opposed to seeing it like going to Mars, colonizing Mars, or going to the moon originally. There is some competitive element, but mostly it's a human pursuit of understanding.

It's a human pursuit of understanding and human pursuit of overcoming our limited knowledge to sort of unlock mysteries of this universe. From a physics perspective, from an engineering perspective, I would release all the information I have and release it in a way that gets the Neil deGrasse Tyson folks in the loop. So it's almost like an inspiring effort for us as a humanity to understand what the hell this thing is versus let's keep it secret and see if we can use it as a weapon. Well, I appreciate that you think that way because you're a scientist and you're thinking about it in a very positive way to try to expand our education and our understanding of this thing. And maybe we could, you know, know use it for good but you got to realize that anything that surpasses

any and all technologies that we currently enjoy in terms of fighter pilots and jets and military superiority if there's something that just is above and beyond all if everybody has a model t and you have a ferrari or better yet you have a tesla you have a model s and everybody's got a model t you you are this is and you're in a race like you have something that is so far above and beyond what everybody else has it's not really a fair race it's a joke you'll dominate if that if you're in a you have a model t and the other person has a tesla and you're racing and the winner gets to decide who has all the food who gets all the women who who lives in the nice house like you're gonna win every fucking time

right now if you have a ufo if you have a spaceship that comes from another planet where there are a million years more advanced than us They've had a million years of evolution and technological evolution, dealing with elements that are common on their planet that have to be created on a particle collider here, and they only exist for a brief amount of time. If they have something like that that's powered by something that we can't even imagine, and you figure out how to use that here on Earth, you'll have technical superiority, technological superiority over every other civilization every other country in that technological superior it's so funny us

chimps are like still talking about our village we want our village to be better than the next village when there's an alien civilization that's a million years more advanced that can easily destroy us if it wanted to. Right. Or actually understands the nature of existence in this universe on levels that are like, we chimps talk about like meditation and finding inner peace. It understands on such a deeper level like the nature of consciousness,

the nature of intelligence, the meaning of life all that weird stuff that we're so obsessed with it understands on another level and here we are thinking about what the russians are doing uh versus like understanding that mystery i think in the face of that mystery of something that's far more intelligent than us. I think we can't, it's a ridiculous notion to think we're anything but one human village. And in terms of weapons,

because you said, like, get all the girls or whatever, I think the weapons thing is the key thing. And we already, at least the major nations, have all the weapons we need to destroy each other. It's like, we don't need extra weapons i well i mean it feels like

it feels like uh your hypothesis would be like if an alien technology was here and we'd figure it out we'd be able to have something that that destroys other chimp villages an order of magnitude more efficiently than nuclear weapons, thereby having an asymmetrical, sort of from a game theory perspective, power over other nations. And we can tell China what to do. We can tell Russia what to do. That's the perspective from which they're thinking. I just...

I'm not even saying that they're thinking that way. I'm thinking a human would think that if they had control of this vehicle. I'm not saying that the aliens would think this way. I'm thinking also that we are constantly innovating. When you talk to people that are designing jets and planes and fighter pilots, and they're talking about new systems that they've created and new weapons. They don't just sit back and say, we have enough weapons to destroy Russia and China and the rest of the world combined, so we're just going to stop. This is not how human beings innovate. Human beings are in this constant state of wanting the newest, greatest innovations. We want to improve upon every single

existing invention until we hit some sort of singularity point or whatever the fuck we're striving for as a culture. And that would be that propulsion system. If you do really have something that can go from 60,000 feet to one feet in less than a second, you're dealing with something that we don't understand. We can't do that right now. And if you could figure out how to do that and propel people that quickly, it would be a game changer. Now, how much of a game changer? What does that mean?

We're in this weird place where we kind of agree to not use our best weapons, right? to not use our best weapons, right? Like when there's a face-off between the United States jets and a Russian jet and they come close to each other, like over China or something like that. It's weird because we're not shooting at each other, but we're real close. And even the missiles that we have, they're not nuclear.

But we're involved in a skirmish with another country but it does we don't use all our weapons like if we approached war the way people approached war in you know the the middle ages we would just nuke the fuck out of everybody that talks shit right anybody anybody what did china just say what they just say fucking launch those missiles fuck those people instead of twitter it'd be nukes yeah exactly so we're already in this place where we don't use our best stuff we're already so if we had something that made us fly better and fly faster the real question is yeah how much would that change the world i don't know i don't know how much it would if we got in control of of some UFO and we're able to get to

China quicker, how much of a difference would that make in terms of the way they responded to our military? We're in this position now where there's multiple countries that have the ability to destroy other countries. Iran has some sort of a nuclear program Pakistan has a nuclear program India has a nuclear program you know of course United States Russia, China there's many countries that have the ability to fucking wipe out

huge numbers of the population like that just launch just one crazy psychotic leader who just decides to just listen we're gonna fucking make our mark here everybody together on one two three go boom that's i mean that's such a difficult you talked to snowden it's such a difficult ethical question like if i actually had that information i tend to lean a little bit on the side of it's the duty of every American

to leak that information, to take it and make it public. But I understand that it takes a huge risk of destroying the world because evil people can get their hands on that information. That's the Bob Lazar question, right? Wasn't that Oppenheimer's dilemma? I mean, when Oppenheimer, who's a very peaceful man, created the most destructive or helped create the most destructive invention the world's ever known. It's a conundrum, right? But doing so, did he prevent a lot of other death because Germany would have gotten it or Japan would have gotten it? And they would have used it on Europe. They would have used it on the United States. Is that

possible? That's the argument, right? That there's a race going on, that people understand that splitting the atom is possible, that nuclear weapons are feasible, and whoever gets them first is going to have a massive advantage. We got them first. And therefore, you know, we became the preeminent superpower. But what if we didn't? What if Oppenheimer was And therefore, you know, we became the preeminent superpower. But what if we didn't? What if Oppenheimer was a dummy? You know, what if there was a bunch of knuckleheads working for the United States and the Russians and the Germans and the Japanese were all working together and they came up with something far better? Obviously, the Russians were against the Germans in that war. But I mean, you fit together any superpowers at the time if they

got together with their scientists and they figured out a nuclear bomb first just dropped it on san francisco well how much would the world be different now yeah i mean and russia i mean stalin is a complicated figure so he was on the side of the united states at the time but evil as fuck but evil uh evil and if he had nuclear weapons it's a whole nother discussion yes and uh it's it's actually quite surprising to me that we got out of the 20th century alive yeah from a perspective of oppenheimer you know i think he probably wondered if we're going to destroy ourselves within the next decade, no matter what happens. When you have weapons that can destroy all of civilization, especially now with hydrogen bombs, it's complicated to talk about anything like alien technology.

Yeah. Well, I think that's probably, I mean, if I was an alien and I was paying attention to Earth, that's probably why I would visit. I'd be like, these chimps are in this weird stage of evolution where they're still chimps. They're still behaving like territorial apes, but now they have nuclear technology. They have this very crude version of literally the power of the sun.

Well, that's what... Okay, so here's another hypothesis. They saw these destructive weapons, and so they actually, in Roswell, or whatever it is, planted a piece of technology that we should figure out. They'll be an infinitely powerful generator of love versus destruction. So they're like, like okay these chimps

are not going down the wrong path let us plant some stuff where they figure out like how to be enlightened mushrooms yeah mushrooms that's what they were that's what they did i mean we tried that because they kind of it's where you know from their perspective the chimps are like a nice video game like they're like a chia pet where you watch them grow. And they probably – I mean that's what we would do if we encounter maybe like an ant colony and we saw that the ant colony is destroying itself. Us, from a scientific perspective, we'd want them to not become extinct. So probably interfere in some way to try to prevent the ant colony from destroying itself. Probably.

So as a curiosity, it feels like Earth is a cosmic curiosity. From a perspective of an intelligent alien species, that's really interesting what's going on there. Let's see what's going on there let's let's see what's happening a friend of mine told me this story that he saw two um mounds of fire ants and uh that he did this experiment where he took a bucket and he scooped up ants from one fire ant colony and scooped up ants from the other and then dumped them on the opposite colonies and watched them fight to the death and i was like fuck really he goes yeah they instantaneously knew that those ants were from the wrong colony and they just went to war and there's a i don't know if you've there's a

few good books on ants they have like a collective intelligence yeah because we tend to think of individual ants but somehow as an organism to get together in the thousands of ants millions of ants there's somehow a collective emergence that uh a collective intelligence that emerges like there's this whole um field of computer science called ant colony optimization like if we just simulate nature inspired optimization algorithms they somehow figure out how to do stuff in a in an emergent way don't really understand it we don't have mathematics to deal with like when you have a bunch of when you have a bunch of distributed uh organisms doing doing dumb stuff just looking at their neighbors when you look at the system as a whole

intelligent stuff emerges that's that um there's uh i don't do you know who steven wolfram is no by any chance uh well you know who eric weinstein is yeah so there uh eric weinstein is uh out of the million intelligent thing he does he's also a mathematical physicist so he has like that theory of everything that you've talked to him about or he blew your mind with geometric unity yeah there's another guy really brilliant guy steven wolfram he's a physicist he created uh wolfram alpha that like everybody uses uh in high school for school to do their homework in calculus. There it is. You can ask it a bunch of questions like,

how much does Joe Rogan weigh or something like that. I don't know if it knows about Joe Rogan, but it might. It would be interesting. I see. It has this huge knowledge base. Maybe it doesn't know individual people. What was I saying? Pretty close.

I mean... What was I saying? It just has like Google information. Oh, it's just... But it's able to integrate it really well. So like you can do math on this information. That's a really important thing. So it can do like...

You know, it can calculate the average population of Austin because it has the information of the number of people, the number of areas, all that, whatever. It's a really useful tool. But he also came out with this Wolfram Physics project recently where he describes, it's another theory of everything. Do you know what a theory of everything is? It's a unification of all the different laws of physics

so that with one theory you can describe everything that's happening around us. And the reason I bring that up, because we're talking about ants, Stephen Wolfram's idea, he has this model of the universe that's what's called a hypergraph. It's this really simple system that grows with a single rule. It expands. It starts from just a couple of points that are connected with a line, and then it grows with a single simple rule.

Just like ants interact really simply, this system grows. And his theory is that it can grow to create our entire universe. From it, it doesn't have a concept of space or time like we perceive it the four-dimensional the three-dimensional space and the fourth dimension of time but all of that emerges within the system we chimps are one in 10 to the 120 part of that that incredible infrastructure that grows and he like mathematically describes the way this thing grows and that's we don't currently have good mathematics for modeling the way such systems grow there's something called cellular automata where it's a really a called game of life unfortunately john conway that created the game of life from died recently from COVID. It describes this very simple system where from simple rules,

you can have incredible complexity. And it's a really cool idea that our universe started from like, basically like one ant and then, or actually two ants. And then their interaction creates a system that's so incredibly complex, even though the underlying rules are simple. We don't understand why the hell that happens. We humans, from a scientific perspective, we know how to describe a single system, the way an object moves.

We don't have a math or even a science of describing how trillions of objects move when they interact simply with each other. We don't know how to do that, but that's what seems to happen. We know how to, you know, psychology can describe the behavior of a single human. What we don't have a science of is to describe what happens when a billion humans interact.

I don't know if that kind of makes sense, but it's called a complexity, a study of complexity. What is this, Jamie? This is a hypergraph. He started explanations of all this sort of stuff. So if you look at any of those, if you zoom in on any of those graphs, I mean, on the previous page the previous one was really good so if you zoom in on any of those below you see all these beautiful little graphy

things below it there is like two boxes and and that describes a rule of if you see a pattern on the left uh expand it to the pattern on the right the entirety, so his hypothesis is one of these rules created the universe, where this little rule of if you see a pattern on the left, create a pattern on the right, it creates these incredibly rich graphs from which emerged this, he's modeling all of quantum mechanics of general relativity. So theory of everything needs to unify the physics of the big which is uh general relativity special relativity uh and then the physics of the really small which is quantum mechanics and he within those graphs is able to uh find the emergence

of these theories first the emergence of space and time then the i mean everything you need to describe for quantum field theory, all that kind of stuff. It's trippy. Go back to those images. That was a bunch of really cool ones. Is that him right there? Nope.

Who's that guy? Probably just a teacher. Just a guy. Those images that you showed in that graph, like, you know what that reminds me of? Do you remember the movie Arrival? Yeah. He was a wolf. Oh, okay. He was the designer of the language ah well that makes sense yeah so he was tasked

such a cool task as a physicist oh my god it's like can you design a method by which the aliens might be communicating with us god i mean that looks like it and or similar too but there was a math behind it so the the the to. But there was a math behind it. So the language he developed, there was a mathematical relationship to the language, him and his son. You know, when you get this far down the intellectual rabbit hole, when you go, I mean,

how many people actually understand this to the point where they can read it, describe it accurately? This is interesting. That's the problem with they can read it, describe it accurately. This is interesting. That's the problem with the theory of everything is very few physicists really understand the details involved. We're talking about... You have to be...

It's the same as the order of magnitude of professional comedians, I would say. It's like thousands, maybe less than a thousand. On the whole planet. On the whole planet. But the cool thing about the Wolfram thing, set physics aside, it's just the part that a lot of people can understand, and I highly recommend curious undergrads,

and really you don't need to know how to program. They understand how those beautiful things and the language in the movie Arrival can grow from simple rules. You can play with it. Like, it's one of the most beautiful, in terms of maybe take some mushrooms, and, like, if you want to see a beautiful concept,

is have a system that's really simple, like a few dots, like a tic-tac-toe board, and have rules that apply to that board that are really simple. One simple rule, and the beautiful patterns that emerge. Give me an example of a rule like that. So the rule for the game of life is, for something like a tic-tac-toe board, is a cell that's white is dead. A cell that's black is alive, let's say. And when three of the cell's neighbors

are also alive, then you live on. Otherwise, you die, meaning you flip. Okay. So when you have three neighbors, I might be getting the exact rule wrong for the game of life, but each cell only looks at its neighbors. And when a certain number of neighbors is alive, I think it's three, then you continue being black, you continue being alive. Otherwise, you die. It's a live-die.

You're just a single cell sitting there, and you live and die based on your neighbors. Okay, that's dumb. I mean, it's very simple. You think, what can uh created from that and you can create everything in the known universe from that so like people have created computers from that from a touring machine like the patterns that emerge you can create all these kinds of fractals you think like it would create some kind of repeatable regular pattern or something like

that it would be something dumb but it can create these like, like the, it, one, one really important thing is the cell just knows about itself. It doesn't move. It just knows about itself. But when you zoom out and you look at the result from the system, it looks like there's objects running around. Like the individual cells aren't running around, but it looks like the objects are running around you can have messengers you can have what are called spaceships which are these mechanisms that use the cells and and move around like if you have any gifs or videos of it like there's stuff that moves and it seems like it's intelligent objects that communicate with each other and all that emerges and you can say like if you just think about it a little bit like you have to remind yourself that see like this animation right there

it looks like there's a moving object like it looks so i think these are called glider guns or something like that where they shoot off objects of different kinds and like you think but the individual cell knows nothing about anything except itself and its nearest neighbors. And as a result, you can nevertheless have arbitrary complexity, objects of arbitrary size that move around, that live and die, that, like I said, do any kind of computation in the world. it makes you realize that it's possible that this universe is just some simple dumb rules on a scale of 10 to the 120 like an ant colony just that just scaled are like an insanely to an arbitrary degree and then we're just there is we're like this clueless apes. They're just the result of that. We're not able to perceive at all the much, much smaller level the simplicity that's happening to us. All of this seems complicated to us.

Like this table seems like it's wood. We don't perceive the atoms. We don't perceive the quantum mechanics. We don't perceive the atoms. We don't perceive the quantum mechanics. We don't perceive whether it's strength theory or something like Wolfram is saying. Like these objects that are interacting at a far smaller than the microscopic level. But it might be that they're really simple rules that just create all of this. It seems complicated to us, but it's something that I think is nice to appreciate for people from all walks of life. How much complexity be created from simplicity, from simple rules.

How much richness, beauty just could be created from simple rules. Isn't it also really interesting that everything tends to move towards greater and greater complexity? Well, so this is, I think, really important, and it's surprising. In general, the second law of thermodynamics says that everything becomes more chaotic. So it's not complex. It becomes more boring. The heat death in the universe. That everything moves apart.

Everything becomes random. Eventually. But the thing is that there's pockets of complexity. And these pockets keep getting created of some interesting stuff. Us little chimps. Interesting stuff keeps getting created. It's not obvious that that should be the case. But just life in general.

Life in general. I mean, if you go from single-celled organisms, you go from bacteria to what we know now as human beings. Just think of all the different steps that had to take place. And it moves towards greater and greater complexity, greater and greater ability to manipulate their environment, greater and greater ability to understand tools and 3D space and how to manipulate things. One of the things that I've always been fascinated about with the concept of aliens is what if the general direction that we're leaning in as a society, like if you think about human

beings today, we're so much more civilized than human beings were 5,000 years ago. We're a different thing. We're less murderous. We're less inclined to be physical. We have much more access to inventions, much more access to technology. Technology was nonexistent back then. We have electricity. We have computers.

We have all these different things. But it's moving in this direction more rapidly now than ever before in terms of the innovation of objects and ideas if you go back to a computer like i remember i got a flat screen computer for the first i don't remember when it was but i remember i looked at one in 1995 i think it was and it was like 20 000 in 95 and it was and it was like twenty thousand dollars in 95 and it was basically the size of that panel and it was like a flat I forget what what the technology was at the time it wasn't LCD plasma that's what it was it was a plasma television and it looked like dark shit but it was thin fairly thin but today it would look like a brick like a crude mud brick that

someone made in the jungle it looked like terrible and i was like that's ridiculous i'm not spending that much money on that fucking thing that's crazy so i got a regular tv but now you can get a tv like that for nothing you like you get a tv that size that's far better like an lcd screen beautiful 4k for like 100 bucks or something like that it's amazing how much the technology has changed how much better it's gotten 20 years yes that's a blink of an eye in terms of the history of the world right and then you stop and think about iphone 1 iphone 1 was 10 years ago 13 now 2007 and it looks terrible you ever pick one up i still have one i found one when i was moving out here.

I found an old phone of mine. I'm like, look at this look of shit. It's crazy. It's small. It's clunky. The screen looks terrible. The camera's dog shit. It's just everything about it,

it's slow, awkward. Now you go to what I have now. I have an iPhone 11 and it's 11 years or 13 years later. It's infinitely better. It's so much better. The camera, the zoom capability, and then there's this giant technological race for Samsung's

coming out with the new Note 20 Ultra with fucking 100x zoom or all these different things that are happening. We're in this weird technology race. If you looked at us from afar, and you said, well, what does this organism do? What does this human organism do? Well, it does a lot of things. It creates culture. It has different rules and religions and this and that. Okay, okay, okay.

But what does it do? What's the end result? Bees make honey. What do people do? They make technology. And one of the things that we do in terms of like keeping up with the joneses materialism all these different weird traits that human beings have what they lend themselves to is technological innovation because if you're a materialist you want the newest latest greatest thing like what year is that car 2018 oh you haven't seen the 2021 so much better like and like the 2018 car is fucking fine and it'll get you around but if you want to impress people you got to have the 2021 well one of the things that's weird about people is how materialistic we are so materialistic there's so many instagram pages that are just filled with people with nice houses and let me look at my shit look at all my watches look at all my this look at all my that

i mean this is a the thing that drives consumers. It drives commerce. And commerce drives innovation. Innovation drives technology. Technology is what we create. We just do it in a weird way. We do it through sex. We do it through social status.

We do it through the need for respect, for envy, all these different things. But all of that really does do is drive technology, because that's ultimately the end of the line. And if you look at the big history, one of the quotes that Elon tweeted is from Andre Karpathy, the head of Tesla Autopilot. Shout out to Andre, one of the great machine learning engineers of our time. His quote was, if you bombard Earth with photons long enough, eventually it will emit a Tesla. So basically, if you look from the very origins, the sun just needed to provide some energy to this thing, heat it up a little bit, and eventually it'll start creating Teslas and then emit them into space. It'll start to have rockets.

Well, it's true. Yeah, it yeah it's true i mean it has happened so and but it's accelerating yes this is why i mean again the elon sort of exponential growth idea i mean it just seems to be getting faster and faster and faster which is us humans aren't able to reason that way. Like most of the technology we see around us is about 100 years worth, 150, electricity, radio, TV, most of the medical innovations from antibiotics to, I mean, just everything. To surgery, to all the kinds, to most of the innovations in biology and chemistry uh modern physics uh even um so obviously computers internet all of that so it's 100 years 150 years maybe and it's accelerating and so our ability to think like what is possible in the next 10 20 years is is uh flawed i mean that's one like we talked about neural link

that's why there's a lot of people kind of you know unable to reason like where how quickly people in the scientific community are aware of how little or how limited our understanding of the human brain is on the neurobiological level, just neuroscience, just the basic functional, at the functional level, like how the brain functions. And so they think like, well, many of the possibilities that are especially exciting with the technology like brain computer interfaces, like with Neuralink,

is must be 120, 100, 200, 300 years away. But the way things are accelerating, it's very possible that it's 50 years away, 30 years away. Like the ability to digitize memories, to be able to replay memories, to digitize like Ray Kurzweil dreams about digitize the minds of humans so immortality uh you know like i mentioned sarah seger people should check out her new book it's a memoir but she searches for uh exoplanets planets she was one of the key people in discovering new exoplanets and uh proxima Centauri is the closest that we think of Earth-like planet, or at least habitable planet out there.

And that seems to be too far away unless you're able to digitize humans. So as she said, the easiest way to travel to that planet to see if there's extraterrestrial life out there is to digitize a human and send them on a ship because you can then travel much much faster than we could otherwise it's and you can have multi-generational obviously travel because uh a digital form of of a human mind of consciousness intelligence all that kind of stuff you know it could travel for

for millennia right and so that's that's an exciting possibility and most people would say that um you know we don't really understand much about the mind and in order to understand enough about the mind to be able to digitally convert it to digitally store it and be able to ship it to proximxima Centauri would be centuries. One of the exciting things about Neuralink to me in the long term is that they're really pushing, instead of making it centuries, making it decades. Just like bringing together the best engineers and scientists in the world and saying this is uh this there's this there's a this is ripe with innovation there's a possibility here to do

something truly special not only to understand the not only to help people with neurological disorders which is a huge obviously goal mission a dream to alleviate suffering right that's a that's as good of a mission for a group of scientists as any but also that we can understand the mind we can expand different capacities of the mind like expand intelligence expand consciousness and expand all the different kinds of capabilities of the mind, like expand intelligence, expand consciousness, expand all the different kinds of capabilities of the mind, and be able to digitally store that mind. So understand it to a degree to where we can copy it,

to where we can store it, to where we can transmit it out to distant stars and to meet our alien friends in digital form. That's a mind-blowing mission for uh for us chimps yeah that's what i wonder when when i think about alien life and that tic-tac ufo that david fravor saw yeah like the the idea that that would be biological that there would be some sort of biological life inside of it seems a little retro right so everything about that seems retro about our interpretation of it yeah like one thing is david's general inclination is i think he said on your podcast with him it's like he wants to

fly that thing his first thought was like i want to fly that thing that's like finding an animal another planet i want to fuck it. Is that a giraffe? I'm going to fuck that space giraffe. My question to him was like, why did you think that's something you could fly? Yeah. That to me seems preposterous, that it could be a thing that could be flied.

It's preposterous to me that there's an alien on board. It could be just reconnaissance. It could be what life becomes. One of the things that I've been thinking about when it comes to Neuralink and all sorts of medical innovations in terms of artificial limbs and different prosthetics that people are able to concoct today, how close are we to those being better than the biological alternatives, right? Like how close are we to that?

Like if you lose your arm, they actually give you a $6 million man arm that's better. You remember that movie, that TV show? Yeah. Steve Austin, the man barely alive. Remember that? Do you? You're not old enough.

Well, and I'm born in the Soviet Union. So we didn't have any of those propaganda films. There was a movie, it was a tv show it was about it was an awesome tv show for me when i was a kid about a guy who was i think he was a fighter pilot and he was in a crash and they rebuilt him with uh artificial parts but the artificial parts he had like legs he could run 60 miles an hour he had a hand he could fucking just crush you with his hand yeah he you know it was wild stuff man it was fun but it was just science fiction television but if they do

get to a point where they have legs that work better than your legs and they feel like your legs like i have friends that have fake hips i have friends that have resurfaced hips and resurfaced knees where they've they've you know terrible arthritis or cartilage damage and they've just replaced the part and now they work now it works great they can they can do things like my friend with his bad hip he runs with a bat with this fake hip um john wayne parr the muay thai kickboxer he he's thrown kicks now with his fake hip he just got his his leg was fixed two months ago i think and his uh on his instagram has got him throwing high kicks with with this uh resurfaced left leg it's crazy when when is it going to come to a point in time

where they can replace your eyes with better versions of what you have now and they work better like it's not i know you're scared but it's no big deal it's like glasses but it's way better we're going to put these things in in where your eyes used to be they're magnetic women love them if you don't have them you're going to look like a loser well you got biological eyes what if these things that we're seeing are the ultimate symbiotic interaction of biology or the initial biology and technology. What if Neuralink is just one step into us essentially giving up our biological heritage and becoming a part of the future? This idea of artificial life is a weird word, right? Because it's not artificial.

It's right there. It's real. Maybe it's made with things that are different than cells, but it's still life. It's a thing. Like if you can create, you know, like the Turing test, right? Like you create something that seems so real and interacts with you and can trick you and it can trick someone who thinks like um the movie ex machina you're you're like i fell in love with that robot lady and you would too she was hot and she seemed like really nice you know like like why am i so hung up on biology what's the big deal you know like if that becomes what people are, if you can download your consciousness into some thing that looks like a human being and your consciousness rides around in this creation,

this technological creation, maybe that's what aliens are. And maybe that's what we need to do to get past these territorial ape instincts that we have to look at a spaceship and go, I want to fly that. Let's look at an animal. I want to fuck it. You know, like the idea of wanting to go over to a place and dominate it, you know? Well, I think one of the key things we might be able to get past is the I in that sentence.

The concept of individuality. we might be able to get past is the I in that sentence, the concept of individuality, the concept that like, I'm a, there's an identity, like I am this meat bucket that, that's like, that somehow is special and unique and so on.

The ego. The ego, the consciousness, like it feels like something to be me as opposed to like, maybe I'm just like a little fingertip of a much larger organism like and be able to see it like you know it's very possible that that what intelligent life forms look like is something much less individualistic like if we look at ant colonies and if we think of the individual ants it's a very different way to think about life on earth than the collection of the ants together or if we look at the collection

of the humans together as an intelligent organism combined with the technology that we're creating all that becomes almost a single organism that's becoming more and more intelligent that the idea that there is a hard line between biology and digital technology that we're developing it really from an outsider's perspective that line doesn't exist we're all an interesting complicated mush that doesn't have a concept of individuals doesn't have a concept of ego or individual consciousnesses it's all one thing and we're just adding more to it and you know with neural link it's not you know people kind of think that there's going to be some kind of leap into the totally transformative you know

a thing that totally changes the very nature of our civilization, I think it'll just all be gradual, just like from iPhone 1 and 2 and 3. All this technology will slowly expand our capabilities. It won't, just like the human eye developed through evolution, the eye developed through evolution. It was gradual. It wasn't like it just appeared. appeared it just something that slowly allowed you to sense the environment better and better

and better and better and eventually something as nice and crisp and sexy as the human eye emerged and you know the other concern people have is with like surgery and so on that that's that's also really you know it's a difficult thing like i got lasik surgery for example you mentioned uh eyes that was a scary thing to get yeah i imagine when did you get it five years ago maybe how'd it go it was is uh like a lot of people talk about it is you know when i woke up next morning i could see like I could see for the first time. It was beautiful. And it was like I was kind of angry that I didn't do it earlier.

That's what a lot of people describe as their experience. Now what happened a week later is I forgot what it's like to not be there. I took it for granted basically a day later. to not be that. They took it for granted basically a day later, but like a week later, it was like, I wasn't,

I already forgot the entire magic of the experience. And that's what I think will just keep happening is there's this gradual little step, this little leap

into a future that everyone will go and say, wow, this is kind of cool. And then they'll forget it was cool and then they'll go back

on Twitter to complain about some divisiveness that's happening in politics today. They'll just constantly, you know, will all of a sudden have a capability to have some extra level of telepathic communication, for example, in 40 years. And then people will just be like, just like we got used to swipe writing on the phone

they'll you know at first they'll be like first people would be like I don't know I don't want to I'm not sure I want the government to know what I'm thinking next they'll just like try it out be like oh it's kind of cool much easier to type on Twitter and then next they'll just be like that's it we're all just communicating telepathically

and all will happen there'll be so many pros to it to not not ever being able to lie i mean if we're forced out i mean one of the biggest problems with people's being deceptive like we have this ability to communicate we we use sounds that relay intent and then you listen you know you you go into your own dictionary and your own uh concept of what these words mean and then you you convey what what you think i'm saying you you interpret what you think i'm saying but i could be a bullshit artist right like a lot of people are like when when you talk to someone who's a psychic and they say you you have a relationship with there's a woman yeah there's a woman keep talking she you're not close but you should be there's yes yes we should be who's this person in your life

uh that's my mother i'm yeah and you've got you go but you you know i'm saying like this is what that is if you could really look into their head and go, hey, fuck face, you don't see anything. You're lying to me. You're pulling on my heartstrings. You know I'm lonely. You're trying to manipulate me so that you can make money. Or you're talking to my dead mom. You know, like, your mother wants you to be happy.

She wants you to donate your money to charity. Like, this person's not really talking to your mom. They're liars. And there's a lot of those people out there. All that would go away. All the bank fraud and manipulation with politics, all that'll go away. A politician won't be able to lie because you'll be able

to look right in their fucking head. You'll be able to like, oh, they don't care at all about America. Or, hey, he's a really good person that really does think that we can get along. We really can work together. We have enough resources. We should behave as a community, as a giant 300 million people community. And that's possible.

It can be done. And like, look at this. That guy's a murderer. We didn't even know. This guy's walking around. He murdered three people. You'll be able to see. You'll be able to see into people's minds.

You'll be able to know. This is's walking around. He murdered three people. He'll be able to see. He'll be able to see into people's minds. He'll be able to know. This is all, all this stuff is incredibly tempting. When you think of something like Neuralink or, you know, once there's something like that, there'll be multiple different versions of it after a while. When those innovations start to roll out, what we'll give up, it'll be just like all the other aspects of technology we will give some things up and there'll be a bunch of people that do reminisce for the retro days like oh the good old days when you wanted to send a letter you had to write it down on paper and a dude and a horse like a fucking like who's that dude's kevin costner movie the postman remember that post a terrible fucking movie about post-apocalyptic uh postman who's like the

most important guy because he can get get your letters but that kind of shit like we we give up something to get this new thing and then we decide this new thing like no very few people are giving up their cell phones and going to flip phones very few people are going no phone at all very few yeah right there's what's the matter jamie just read the poster real quick i put it up on the screen oh the year 2013 2013 one man walked off the horizon and hope came with him i love kook you know what the greatest movie of all time is water world no it's not it's a terrible movie but you know what's good the water world show at universal in hollywood but i don't think they could do it anymore i think california's so goddamn draconian their restrictions i think they've got it locked down but that's it that water world movie is uh that is citizen kane compared to the postman postman is a steaming pile of shit

it's so bad it is a really bad movie but somehow actually kevin costner's can make really bad movies and make them somehow watchable well he makes really great movies too dances with wolves fucking incredible and that's all him you know he's made some awesome stuff no doubt about it i like um i mean you meant the pros and cons i like i really like the replay of memory i don't know if that connects with you but i remember of that the idea of that like i i remember it sounds weird but so like this what i got a chance to talk to elon uh afterwards and he had this funny comment. He thinks in

weird ways. His comment was that if we one day will be able to replay memories I wonder if this is a memory that you and I would choose. It made me think I certainly would

because there's momentous like i would probably replay this very podcast in my in my mind this this experience i remember you know you do this a lot but for me it was a special experience i was um sitting with you and eric weinstein at the back of the comedy store i remember during that moment i'm awkward and scared and nervous i remember thinking like like i didn't have i didn't want to take pictures but i wanted to like store this because it felt like a historic moment just that lineup it was like the who's who of comedy doing just short little bits of comedy that entire night it just felt like it felt like history like i was i stepped into the coliseum like and got to hang out with the gladiators and it i mean not to

be sort of it felt like that had to end at some point i get russian i start to like think about how this is gonna end but it felt like this is gonna have to end how this is going to end. But it felt like this is going to have to end eventually. Well, you were right. It ended with a virus. With a virus, and it's an end of an era. But that was a special moment, and I would want to replay that. It's hard. I have similar feelings about how special it was,

but it was hard for me in the moment to think about it because although i did appreciate it as much as i could in the moment you can't dwell on it too much because you're in the middle of a creative process like stand-up comedy is an ever changing constantly evolving process when i have an act i get it to a point where I can imagine recording it. And then I record it and then I start over. But during the whole time of making it, I'm always tweaking it. It's never done. It's just constantly being fucked with.

I'm constantly putting this first and that second and switching the order and doing this part of the bit in the beginning and then switching it to the end and then adding something and maybe maybe being more sneaky with how i uh reveal the punch line or how i do this and that and so there's there's this process that's constantly going on you can't go wow i mean i know and i knew during the time like this really is the golden age of comedy it's a very special time in this very special place i knew that but i also knew that i couldn't think of that i can't you just had to keep moving but what about so that's the comedy side but what about the camaraderie i mean the the back of the comedy

store is the the camaraderie of it like how when is the next time say we reopen the economy when is the next time there's going to be all those comedians showing up regularly to one place? A lot of us have moved, unfortunately. Joey Diaz moved to New Jersey for now. What is that about? Yeah, thank you, thank you. He's slowly becoming the Sopranos show. Listen, once the winter kicks in and he understands that he fucked up,

I'm going to call him. I'm going to present Texas as a viable opportunity. Hopefully by then I'll have a club here. The number one goal. See, the goal was to get here, set up shop, put together this studio. Okay, we got that going. We're up and running. Now, goal number two is a comedy club.

Goal number three is a ranch. Goal number three is we have a podcast ranch. And we do all kinds of wacky shit there. You got to come back to the ranch. We're going to have – Is Duncan Truss going to live on the ranch? Oh, fuck yeah. Guaranteed Duncan will come.

By the way, greatest – I mean, as just a fan, Duncan is – I heard you try to talk him into moving to Austin. Yeah, he wants to move to North Carolina, though. That's where he's from. He's from Asheville, and I think he has designs on that. But if I could talk him into moving here. One thing I – we were both talking about doing a television show or doing a podcast, rather, doing a show together. I don't know why I said television show or doing a podcast rather doing a show together.

I don't know why I said television show, but he and I doing a show together, like a regular show, like maybe once a week, just, just me and him sitting down and shooting the shit and talking about life once a week. I think we have a weird connection.

He and I, we've known each other for so long. He used to be my roommate. He lived in my house for a little bit. And, you know, I've known him since he was the the guy who answered the phones the comedy store yeah you know i've known him

forever since the beginning of his comedy career and you know we've always been real close and we we're weird together we bring out something weird in each other yeah i mean the positivity that he brings he just has this weirdly weirdly positive view of the world. And yet, just like the crazy theories he has about the way the world is. He's a special human being. I'm glad that guy exists. Me too. Yeah, I love him.

And Joey Diaz is the other side of that. Yeah, he's chaos. Joey Diaz is chaos. If there was an element called chaos and it had like a physical manifestation where you could like see like an like an avatar of chaos it's joey diaz he would always bring the party i always said when whenever we go on the road joey diaz bring brings the party he was always the guy that was just like like if we were out at dinner joey was always stealing the show he was always the funniest guy in the room he's always the the madman and he also joey diaz works best

when people love him like when he's around people who love him and when he knows he could just be himself and so you know all of his crazy stories and preposterous exaggerations over the top exaggerations about things all all done for comedy. That's him. I think when you watch great chess champions play against each other, or great like Muhammad Ali versus Frazier, was the moment when I saw Joey go against Alex Jones.

I thought, because you say crazy, I thought Alex Jones is the, what is it, the Frazier. There's no way you can take that guy down with the art of conversation, but Joey just took him apart. Well, it was back when Alex was on the radio, too. So Joey was talking about storing weed under his balls and sneaking it in on a flight to Texas. Alex, funny enough, was censoring himself. I know, he was. Like, this isn't real.

Hang on. He's just joking around, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. And there's a lot of those characters out of the comedy store. It's a special place. You miss it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do.

But it doesn't exist right now. And I'm a realist. And also, the place that existed in los angeles is not the same los angeles that place is fucked right now it's fucked and the mayor's fucked and the governor's fucked and they've done a terrible job of managing the pandemic and the place is in ruins it's a mess la is a mess it's what how does it get unfucked it's gonna take years so here's my worry so you have a different you know la you know the comedy store my worry i got uh not to brag it's very weird but i got recognized on the way to here four times

it was weird congratulations it's very weird listen. Listen, you're a celebrity. Fuck you. But I've never been recognized like that. You've been on this podcast. How many times now? Five. Five times. So, do you know how many millions of people have seen you? Yeah. And I have the podcast I do is a little more

technical. So, the kind of people that they don't... I can see the difference between the people who recognize me from rogan and the people who recognize it from the podcast i do it's um it's a different like they're usually just like you say shaved head tattoos versus or like jujitsu like cauliflower ears right bro and actually women too uh but then for guys if you could tell like okay this guy's a ce of some company or, like, is a programmer. That's more.

Do you wear that suit and tie everywhere when you travel? Suit, yeah. Oh, travel usually because I hate traveling. I'll go jeans and shirt. Oh, okay. Well, that's tricky. That's my pajamas. Yeah, that's how you sneak by.

Yeah. Because with this suit is your uniform. They recognize me with the mask suit is your uniform they recognize me through the with the mask too that's weird that was weird that's weird what makes you think like oh yeah i recognize you from the eyes and the haircut anyway but the the reason i bring that up uh that was weird i apologize uh no they mention uh two of the people actually mentioned that they're leaving san San Francisco because they're tech people and they said one of them moved to Austin

and they said that people are fleeing San Francisco fleeing that's the term fleeing and that's the right term because San Francisco is insane you know San Francisco is an app where you can find the human shit in the city because it's so numerous

it's so prevalent so many bums are shitting in the city because it's so numerous. It's so prevalent. So many bums are shitting in the streets that they have apps. I like how you went to that. I was referring to another aspect of it, which is it's not even San Francisco. It's the entirety of Silicon Valley, which is there's very much a group think

that moved away from a meritocracy of where we want to innovate and change the world with our ideas to a little bit more like uh you know i don't know how to put it but a kind of a group think that pushes against that and so people are trying to like if you're against that how so uh well it i mean that's what jordan peterson about. It's the identity politics tends to try to silence the desire within people to judge based on meritocracy, based on skill, based on hard work, based on passion and so on.

It changes the topic of the conversation in a way that moves. Like if you're a kid, guy or girl, who dreams of changing the world, you start a startup. Like the last thing you want to be talking about is – the last thing you want to be doing is playing identity politics. What you want is hire the best people for the job, men or women, and you want to change the world. You don't want to be playing discussions that are like uh that are going on in gender studies parts of academia and so there's a kind of group thing that i think holds you back within places like silicon valley within certain parts of academia i i think these are important conversations to be had but they need to be had to be had in nuance without being a bully.

So most of the people that play identity politics, Twitter, they talk about all really good things. They carry the flag of justice, of fairness, of equality, of respect and love. That's like the flag, but what they do is they bully. There's a toxic nature to it they attack i get attacked actually for uh for you know not having an equal distribution of women on the podcast where i interview that's something i work very much on who attacks you for

this you know a small percentage of people on twitter but but they, and I ignore, I never respond, and I always send telepathically love. I mean, that's all I can do. There's two things. One, there's probably been pain in their past. They're hurting. And two, it's probably, from their perspective, enjoyable, that social game, to say,

I want the world to be more fair yeah and saying that and then everybody like says you congratulates their themselves and each other for saying I want the world to be more fair what they don't realize is by saying by calling somebody like me a fraud or our sexist is absurd is you're just you're putting hate out there as opposed to love like i'm annoyingly tweeting about love all the time like i even annoy myself sometimes because i'll have a mood where i'm like i've tweeted before like life is beautiful i legitimately i was sitting like three at night and like with a stupid smile on my face and just

like this is awesome life is awesome life is awesome and then and if you call me a fraud like that's not the right place for the movement they do that because I'm probably an easy target because I'm like look there's a nice guy he looks

weak like they think i'm weak and i'm in the space of social justice warriors on twitter i am weak i wish we lived in the land in a place of like where with equality and fairness i could fight people to the death based on the things i believe like in gladiators like stand in front of each other as long as it's uh consensual i would love to fight to the death for the of each other, as long as it's consensual. I would love to fight to the death for the ideas I believe in. But on Twitter, that's not the battleground of ideas. It's a weird, weird place. Well, you're disconnected from actual real human interaction. It's an unnatural way to communicate. It's one of the things we were talking about, about

Neuralink or something along those lines, that we could get to a place where you could actually read someone's thoughts. I mean, do you know how gross it would look if you could actually see virtue signaling in an actual clear manifestation? Like, oh, I see what you're doing. I read your mind. You're hoping someone's going to love you by saying mean things. You're hoping that women are going to say, thank you for being a champion of women, Mike, you know, like for standing up. Lex doesn't have enough of us on his podcast. We need equal representation. We need equality of outcome, you know, and this is what identity politics is all about.

It's all about calling people out. But really what it's about is finding targets and attacking, and very little gets done in a positive way. If you look at like, what's the positive aspect of identity politics? Like what's over the course of the last five years? What good has been done? Well, people are terrified. You know, a lot of people have attacked people on Twitter, but how much good has been done? Well, it's complicated. I think about the reason I always try to find the silver lining in things. The way I think about it,

first of all, I've become more conscious of the fact that there's douchebags in this world. There was a lot of sexism in academia, for example. Just like boys club stuff. It's fundamentally disrespectful towards women. That's out there.

There's douchebags. And they're often, you know how Joe Biden touches people's hair? Yeah, yeah. There's a creepiness to the way people behaved. And I think- Well, they have power. Power, yeah. Whenever people have power they they behave in a weird way if you're a guy and you're a professor like traditionally

professors fuck their students right i mean it's uh the most one of the most common things was like the professor and the graduate student let's Let's like rephrase that. In the 60s, the 70s? I don't know if that's traditional, but I do, I have seen. Okay, but we know it's common. It was very, very, very common. Now, it can get you in deep shit. Now it can get you deplatformed.

It can get you fired by the university. It has a lot of downsides because you're getting in the way of love, but it has an upside that you're getting in the way of douchebags. Yes. The ridiculous aspects, the over-extension of the Me Too movement is arguably worth the positives it created. Ultimately. Ultimately.

So maybe not in the moment. Not to the people that were wrongly accused. Right. But if you look 20 years from now, it would probably lead to progress. Yeah, it's like saying Genghis Khan was good for trade. He opened up the path of trade

to the East. Well, I mean, people, and people make the same argument for Hitler. Yeah. He rebuilt the German economy. And so that argument, nobody makes the argument

that like, hmm, on the overall, Hitler was good for the humanity. No. So I don't think, but, you know. Yeah, I think you're right. I think overall, it's good. It's good that, listen, I'm not a woman working in an office with a boss that is treating me like shit and wants to fuck me and sexually harassing me. And I would imagine that would make your life hell.

like shit and wants to fuck me and sexually harassing me. And I would imagine that would make your life hell. I can't imagine if I was a woman and I had to kiss some guy's ass in order to get a promotion and this guy would make disgusting remarks about me and try to fuck me. It would, or worse, or actually physically do something to you. I would imagine it'd be terrible. So that, look, i'm fully in support of that i have daughters man i don't want them to ever have to experience that kind of shit again i'm glad that people they have to be accountable for things like that that we do make i think

workplaces in general right uh first of all everybody it sucks no one wants to be stuck in someplace all day but also you have this weird culture in these workplaces where you're around all these other people and these people you see sometimes more than you see your own family you're around them eight hours a day and you don't even get to pick them right they're just the people that you automatically work with and if you're a woman and you're in a situation where you have to work with some man who has power over you and is abusive it would be hell the you know the workplace kind of interesting because i don't know what to do with it because a lot of people find love in the workplace yeah that's true too i as a rule like never like i turn not that part

of my brain off at the workplace because i feel it's such a difficult game to play but i've been hit on by co-workers like in a positive not a power thing but like you're close yeah you want to and then i was always running away from that because like what i imagine in my head is what happens when we break up right what happens what like if we have a fight like which is human relations like the the drama of that it's hard to get right and uh i think the i mean from an individual perspective i think you shouldn't you shouldn't play victim you should take the situation as it as it is and make make sort of rise above it whatever it is, whatever the challenge

whatever the difficulties whatever of the situation you're in you rise above it from the individual perspective because life is hard succeeding in a career is hard and to be stuck

in the local optimal of just like uh of the of playing victim and the victimhood i think for the individual is not productive but as a society that's a conversation we need to have like what who are the victims in our world and how can we create a world that has fewer victims one of the the things that Jordan Peterson points out that I think is really important to mention is that we haven't been doing this office thing that long. Meanwhile, I should clarify, I don't know jack shit about working in an office. I've never worked in an office in my life. But I couldn't imagine what it would be like.

I understand people, but that's a weird thing, man, when men and women are sexually attracted to each other and they see each other every day like that. Very weird. It's very weird. And to say that you have to turn that off, and it's admirable that you do, but some people don't. You know, some people don't.

Some people have, like, weird fucking fetishes towards people they work with. Well, and, okay, so i'm a romantic in general okay but and but i'm also a guy like people who uh hear me uh especially your fans who think i'm beta fuck you uh you gotta stop no no hold on a second telling you. I welcome you. Message me. Let's take it out on the mat. Okay. So I won't read the comments, but I'm just saying.

I'm not big. But you're actually challenging them to do jiu-jitsu with you. I'm joking. It's a joke. Unless you want to. But if you're going to read those comments, someone's going to go, all right, motherfucker, where do you roll? Let's go.

Let's go. Broadway jiu-jitsu in Boston. Don't say that. You anyway actually mistake right there but also uh if you're interested in learning jiu-jitsu go to broadway jiu-jitsu in boston uh which they're every gym is struggling but uh are they open uh they're doing the the dance that everybody is, which is like they're doing socially distant training. How is that possible? In Massachusetts, it's different, but you could do private training, which means they have these slots of one hour where people show up and train.

It's like I think three people or like two people. They train and they keep, what do you call it? Every hour they do different sets of people. Do they test everybody? Temperature checks. So they're doing everything the laws requires. So every state is doing different things. How effective is a temperature check?

I mean, there's people that are asymptomatic. Do they have a high temperature? It's not about what works and doesn't. It's about complying. It's about what, I mean, from my perspective, healthy people should do whatever the hell they want. Like, to me, I mean, let me rephrase that. Whoever is comfortable, like the level... I believe in freedom.

We're in Texas. Yes. These water bottles are made in Texas. Are they? Good. That's crazy. Awesome. You should be able to choose your actions.

And then people who either have symptoms or people who are in a high-risk category, they should stay home. They should be isolating themselves. But there should be a little bit more freedom to define how you interact with this world, especially at this time, especially where the curve is. But there's rules in Massachusetts that you're supposed to follow. And jiu-jitsu, they don't understand, obviously, combat sports. Jiu-jitsu is essential for a lot of people, like for their psychology. Yeah. There's people going nuts right now.

Yeah, it's part of who they are as a human. It's part of their religion. Yeah. And it was also part of the way of exercising out their demons. Yes. Yeah. And now you have a lot of people sitting alone at home with their demons. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And it's also a big part of their social life. Social life, yeah. Huge part of their social life. Huge, huge. And also physical touch. There's something about jiu-jitsu, like the physical touch of jiu-jitsu, it's very good for people.

Even though you would think of it as like a violent interaction, there's actually so much camaraderie that's involved in jiu-jitsu. There's so much community. There's so much friendship and that's involved in jujitsu. There's so much community. There's so much friendship and love in jujitsu. You know, yeah, you're practicing killing each other, but you're doing so with good friends who are equally skilled. Iron sharpens iron, and it's very important that you do, like you want to roll with people that are challenging to you.

You want them to be good. You want them to try really hard. It's a part of the whole thing, and you feel very blessed. Like, you know what happens after you're done rolling. You always thank each other and hug each other. I mean, that's part of the culture. And jujitsu is a very friendly culture, you know. It's one of the things that I love about Brazil and the Brazilians is that they're so friendly. It's like a big part of their culture. It's like a big part of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. It's like the way the instructor interacts with the students. It's very friendly, very friendly.

Yeah, and now that that's gone, what do you do? I know, for a lot of people, they're going nuts. You should go run. That's why I went to the whole Goggins thing. I've been going nuts by myself. Well, explain what you did because it's pretty funny. Yeah, it's ridiculous. So first, I follow two people on Instagram, you and David Goggins,

which is you for the lulz, for the laughs, and Goggins for like just to feel like a weak bitch every once in a while. And at one point in the spring, I forget when it was, he posted something about a 48 hour challenge so where you run um four miles every four hours so i did that i never ran more than 22 miles before then i just did it now my whole methodology for doing these things is i announce it on twitter so that like in the moment yeah you can't get out of it i can't get out of it so so like i i saw the the post on instagram i went to twitter i said it i'm excited you know in my head i'm not thinking i'm not allowing

myself to think i said i'm just gonna do it and i'll figure out how to do it and then so i figured out how to do it that was the worst idea ever i don't recommend that four miles every four hours so how long does it take you to run four miles uh 40 minutes let's say so you have a three hour plus 20 minute rest in between each four mile run and you're you're sleeping for three hours at a time so you could get up and run yeah yeah so it's uh it's a mental test of your ability to do something really stupid for prolonged periods of time like because it's not it's not like running 48 miles in one take that's actually probably easier the the the hard thing is run a little bit you know four miles is pretty easy especially at a slow pace and then like shower it depends i mean i showered almost every time which is another

thing that's hard to do because you're like constantly showering and you're like oh here we go i almost didn't sleep at all you slept like one hour at a time really and then i over ate so i was eating carnivore still mostly eating carnivore at that time so I was eating like I eat a giant rotisserie chicken like your brain starts convincing you that you need like the energy for the fuel so I felt like really bloated and like you want to running with a chicken in my stomach and then just like and then and then all these demons come out I mean at least for me just like like the you start like i start thinking i need to delete the comment i did on twitter i didn't need to or like the like this this is stupid i'm a scientist like who why are you like your mind

starts making up stuff like why are you doing this you know all of those demons and then it starts saying things like you know you have like all the papers you wrote are shit everything you ever done is shit like you need to work hard like if you why are you working so hard at this stupid running thing you should be focused and and doing the thing that you like your career you should be like all of those things and then my parents come into place like you should you find a wife right you should have kids like all the all you talk about love all the time why are you fucking single you fucking you know like that's the that's what yeah it doesn't actually speak in those words but you feel it you feel it yeah and then and then you just and then you feel the age thing i mean but like you know you know you used to be able to wrestle like

you've never you've never beat anyone good at wrestling you You're a jiu-jitsu black belt. You don't deserve that black belt. All those thoughts are coming to me. But anyway, that was the 48-hour challenge. And then on one day, I think in June, yeah, June, maybe at the end of May, I woke up and I had this idea. The brain is stupid. To say that, to tweet and say that I'll do as many push-ups and pull-ups as this tweet gets likes.

I don't know why I thought that. I thought in my head, because I usually, you know, I talk about love all the time. And, you know, I get like, I don't know, 100 likes, 500. I don't know what I get. But it's not, I thought like, thought like i need to get harder and need to start exercising every day again and i thought i would get about maybe a thousand so i end up getting uh 20 000 yeah so uh so i said in 30 days right and um uh but that's too much for me that's that's too hard so i in my mind, I thought that.

So I said, okay, let me distribute that across other exercise. I'll do it every day, but I'll distribute it across bodyweight squats too. So the idea is, you know, coronavirus, I want to do stuff, like I have a kettlebell too, maybe exercise I can do at home every single day. But the tweet said push-ups and pull-ups only. but the tweet said push-ups and pull-ups only. So I've, and before then I've interacted with David quite a bit.

So I sent him, yeah, yeah. So I sent them this thing, and it's just saying like here, I forget what I said. It was a basic message. Do you have any advice? And he sent me back a video of him. Oh, I asked him him a few questions and he sent back a video of him answering the questions calling me out of my bullshit because he said you said in your tweet push-ups and pull-ups motherfucker or however he talks he's like if i were you uh so he did the worst thing which is

like if i were you i would I would do what I promised but I understand how things are so if you like so he went on to give me advice if I bitch out so I end up no what else can you do so I started doing push-ups and pull so it's about it's 500 push-ups a day and 170 pull-ups a day, plus six miles running. Jesus. I just started. Every day? Every single day.

For a month? For a month, yeah. There you go. This is the Instagram days, man. This is when I was so proud of myself. I was proud of myself that I'm actually doing this. And I think day three is when it all just went to shit. That's when it went to shit.

So I started getting a shoulder. So I stopped on day seven, I believe, and took 10 days off. So my shoulders started just overwhelmed with pain. Did you get an MRI? No, no, no. I know the shoulder. Like, I've gotten this. It's overuse.

It wasn't, sorry, it wasn't hurt. It was like, I know this pain well. Where is it, part of your shoulder? It's complicated. It's, like, slightly in the back. Mm-hmm. I know the pain well from, like, I know it's an overuse thing. Like, I did it when I trained judo twice a day.

I know, like like i know the pain i know how to treat it which is like ice but like the reps are insane for people people have done this kind of thing it's so i gave myself two weeks to actually ramp up to it too so like i was already i have a good base on put i know how to do push-ups and pull-ups, but that was way too much for me. The whole time, David motherfucking Goggins is with me either on the phone or email every single day, and he's doubling everything I'm doing. Well, he's not doing the squats

because he's just had knee surgery. So he's with surgery doing the push-ups and pull-ups. What did he have done to his knee? He doesn't like to talk about stuff. Like, I couldn't get it. Because I think he probably just hurt his knee just for the haters to think he'll quit. Well, that's what he did. I know he had his knee drained. Yeah, there some some problem he's at one of those ignore guys yeah you've got pains

he just ignores it yeah what you got okay let me see oh this is them pulling okay what does it say here a lot of us think that just because there's knobs to go in the middle of the road oh look at this they're gonna they're gonna uh they're pulling all that fluid out of his knee. Ooh, what does it say? This is just talking about setbacks. Okay, here's more often than not. I've had bad knees, bad hips, et cetera, for 20 plus years. Not letting that stop me, and I won't now.

And I find we must exhaust all options, find a way. Yeah, Jesus Christ. And I find we must exhaust all options. Find a way. Yeah. Jesus Christ. So he's draining multiple syringes of fluid out of his. Look at that nasty shit that's coming out of his fucking knee, man. How much fluid is in his knee? So the thing is, like, your knee is a physical structure. And I appreciate his mindset.

But ultimately, if you're draining that much fluid out of your knee, you've got real internal problems. And you could fucking man through that shit, but you're still diminishing the physical structure of your knee. Well, that's his whole philosophy, which is the point. Yeah, there's a video I think one or two he's running like a one day he's like I'm back motherfuckers whatever he's doing he's running like you scroll up a little bit

I'll show you what it is right there that one play that to all you computer warriors trolls haters I read your fucking messages To all you computer warriors, trolls, haters. I read your fucking messages on those videos I put up with me and my crutches. Me getting my knees drained. You were happy I was fucking injured.

You're also happy because you thought I'd never run again. All that see, I told you. Tagging your friends shit. Bitch, you don't fucking know me. you see a one minute fucking video about me you don't know how hard i train how i live the fucking dedication i put into my fucking life so why do you troll maybe it's a fat motherfucker at home lazy with no discipline dedication maybe you're jealous who knows i guarantee this i'll be back better than ever fuck you stay hard fuck you stay hard he's the best god damn i love that dude he's a treasure yeah he's

a treasure but like he in this world where... The reason I stopped actually posting about the thing I'm doing is what I realized, especially probably the community I'm in, so many people were telling me that's too much. They were encouraging me to be healthy. They weren't understanding the whole point, the philosophy of Davidid goggins which is the point is to push the limits of what is healthy this isn't to get like doing those kinds

of reps is not for some kind of like to get back in shape the moment i agree to answer david goggins is like email and then phone call and then you're accepting not a nice way for like like uh trying up my cardiovascular yeah getting it it was to go through hell so this is the first time david um dan gable famous wrestler famous wrestling coach talked about that he always tried to train so hard that he wouldn't be able to get off the mat, that he would have to be carried off the mat. And he said he never succeeded at that, but he always really tried to push so hard that he literally couldn't get off the mat.

And the results of that, we're talking about the physical structure. He has replaced hips, replaced knees. His body fell apart. The internet is very nice and helpful to tell you exactly that, which is your body will fall apart. That's not the right way to do it. When I got injured, people were like, just like you said, obviously you shouldn't be doing this, right?

But that's not the point. That's not the point of this. This is the first time I'm not a crier. I cried three times face down on my carpet in this whole challenge so i was doing all this uh at home just there's all different kinds of demons that came out and just the so if for people who know push-ups and pull-ups and done this kind of exercise what happens is it's kind of, your muscle get used to it. It's not physically that challenging. They're in the state of just complete exhaustion. And what it is, it's almost boring. So it's a task of your mind pushing through a thing that's really boring.

Your muscles are exceptionally sore.'re exhausted and again all those demons of like why are you doing this it's like nobody will care if you just quit all that kind of stuff in dealing with all of that that's why because it's about um depending on the day but it's at least two hours of push-ups and pull-ups spread throughout the day and it's just it's a grind and then i have goggins on me about it always doubling stuff so i after 10 days i returned and i at that point i did it without announcing it i did it for four or five days to make sure i could do it at that point i knew i'm gonna have to finish even with injury so i i knew after 10 days, the shoulder was back to normal. I figured out a whole, like I figured out the eating that I'm doing.

I figured out the whole recovery. What did you change in the eating? It sounds weird, but I switched to one meal a day, which is before I sleep, which felt good. It's mostly keto. In terms of supplement, they're your sponsor, actually. That's how I found them, Athletic Greens. I don't know why.

It makes me feel good. Great stuff. Yeah. Because the worry you have with keto, I'm not into nutrition science. I don't follow it. I just listen to my body. The worry you have is you don't get the nutrients. You don't get the...

Phytonutrients, plant-based nutrients. And also, importantly, electrolytes. Because I'm running. There's a... Because you get the headaches thing. You ever take liquid IV? You ever try that stuff? No.

I swear by that shit i drink that every day is that uh is that the actual it's just an electrolyte yeah electrolyte supplement it's a sponsor too but uh even if it wasn't if they stop being a sponsor i'll still tell people to take it what are they what is it supposed to uh so they have like uh vitamins sodium glucose optimum ratio of sodium to glucose, like very scientifically researched. It's fantastic shit, man. Changed the way. I would always get cramps.

And once I started using it, I stopped getting cramps. You think like hard kickboxing workouts, hard martial arts workouts, hill running, that kind of shit. You beat your body up, man. If you're not getting enough electrolytes, you're certainly draining them out of your system. And taking them in the form of liquid IV just made a big difference. Sorry, are you still sticking to keto?

No, I'm not. I don't eat keto, but I'm mostly carnivore. You know, I mean, I eat some salads and I eat some fruit, but the vast majority of what I eat is meat. The vast majority. Yeah, that's one. Maybe 80 plus percent of everything I eat is meat. I don't know about you, but that's one of the things. I just stopped wanting to post about it

because one, the exercise is insane and two, my eating. I just don't, I like positive vibes. People get angry. People get angry. get angry and not only just angry they they keep telling me it's unhealthy and i've experimented i wrestled my whole life i understand what peak performance is on different diets like i know my body i've explored and like learned about what feels good for me I'm not saying it's good for others.

I've experimented with eating seven times a day when I was more doing power lifting stuff. I've experimented. For me, eating once a day or eating twice a day in a small window, like intermittent fasting, very low carb. I do two things in my life which is Goggins type challenges which is doing like physical challenges and then long periods of deep thinking deep work so intellectual work for me it keto and once a day focuses the mind like

nothing else it allows me to sit for eight hours at a time so I usually do two four hour periods of deep work you shut off every distraction and completely focus yourself on a single task nothing like keto for me the interesting thing i know i know that about myself what i didn't wasn't really sure is with the push-up and pull-up thing what is the right like supplementation for that and i wasn't sure but i stuck to it i stuck to basically entirely carnivore uh i would say under 20 grams of carbs maybe even under 10 grams of carbs on some days and mostly just a lot of meat i wasn't a calorie deficit i actually got a little fatter really yeah so i was

made crazy i i was starving okay this sounds please don't clip this out but i was starving i was starving for meat like i would remember waking up like wanting like a bloody steak in the middle of the night well but your tissue must be so, like everything must need nutrients like so badly, so much protein. You're breaking everything down. That's such an extreme requirement of your body to do something like that. It's not like crazy.

We're not talking about, David Goggins took it to the, of course. Of course. Doubling everything you do. It's just insane. So 1,000 push-ups is different than 500 push-ups. So 500 is doable. It's just insane. 1,000 push-ups is different than 500 push-ups. So 500 is doable.

1,000 is insane. And also, there are certain things on form. I didn't go all the way down on the pull-ups. I did a form of pull-up with my hands closer together. To save your shoulder? To save the shoulder so i made sure this isn't like to prove anybody to that's the other thing when i posted videos of myself doing push-ups and pull-ups that's why i stopped is like people will tell me like that the form stop

reading the comments i i how many times during this podcast have you talked about people saying things to you in the comments and it upsetting you well it's been like 10 well help me out with something then okay the reality is that a lot of other really intelligent people read the comments you mean like eric eric weinstein eric weinstein i told him stop reading him too no too that motherfucker complains constantly about comments but the thing is yes that's a good but I'm uh so the difference between you and I is one important thing

is I do hope to be one of the technologists that either creates a competitor to Twitter or helps Twitter become a better version of itself so I want to create the systems that that create that community in the comments that's positive so for me it's important to understand that that the demons in there well

you're going to have to fundamentally change the way human beings interact with each other with no repercussions when people have no repercussions they interact anonymously there's just a fundamental aspect of cruelty that emerges there There's no getting around it. I disagree, I think. I don't disagree. I think the fundamental thing that happens is some small percentage of humans start becoming toxic.

Yes. And that drives away what I believe is the majority of the population who are therefore friendly. The kind of conversations you have at parties in person no listen i i agree with you 100 most of the interactions that i have on online even when i stop reading comments were positive the vast majority when you cultivate like one of the things that i've tried to do with this podcast is talk to people the way i talk to people in real life

you know warts and all the the vast majority talk to people in real life. You know, warts and all. The vast majority of my interactions in real life are positive. The vast majority. The vast majority are happy. Occasionally they're not. Occasionally someone's a fucking dick. You know, and that's just, you run into dickheads sometimes. It sucks and it's annoying.

But it's a part of life. My internet feed based on this podcast, based on how people get to know me reflected that it's mostly positive it's mostly people recognizing what my intentions are my intentions are to try to get out of the way as much as possible put together the best podcast i can do my best try to be curious try to feed my curiosity just do my best open-minded kind loving that's that really okay and help people and promote people those are that's that's another really big part for me is promote people like let let them help them succeed because I I feel good about that makes me feel good yeah like who the hell am I like for some reason you saw you see

stuff in people and then you share like selflessly you promote them like you do that with comedians you do that with a lot of even eric weinstein of one of the you know incredibly brilliant jordan peterson could be argued that he was really propelled forward by a conversation on your podcast i mean i'm happy to do that it makes me feel good it's one of the most important parts of this podcast I think that I can introduce and in doing so it also enriches other people because you get to in hear these interesting conversations and and and it stimulates their mind and it changes the way they Think about certain things so the vast majority of interactions that I had online even before I stopped reading comments were positive The problem is you'd start dwelling on the ones that aren't like you're doing in this podcast

You are you're doing in this podcast. You're literally telling me everything that's wrong with reading comments by telling me you're reading comments and then complaining about the things that people say about your form or the things they say about you not having enough women on your podcast or the people say you're a beta. You're going over and over and over again for no reason. That's interesting. But all of those things are completely unnecessary,

and you're going to fight me on it right now because I see you're gearing up yeah i'm gearing up you're gearing up for some sort of a response yeah it's yeah i'm i've been gearing up okay okay okay okay first of all let me put it because it's more fun to talk about the the negative stuff most of my life the reason i read comments is i've met incredible people i'm in a i'm in currently with a very small level of celebrity. I'm fortunate enough to have people that are just full of love, uh, two things, love and intelligence like that. They make me think they inspire me. There's incredible people. And that's why I read the comments still for now, at least I do. I did hire somebody to help me

like, uh, fight the trolls. Uh, but like to trolls because you can remove comments and so on. I don't think that's a long-term solution. I think the long-term solution is technology. Here's the fundamental problem. I think that 99% of Joe Rogan fans, you can say any kind of percentage, are people I would want to hang out with at a party and talk with. I think so too. And I think the comment section should reflect that.

I think it's a technology problem. I think what happens is the 1% that I don't really want to hang out with dominate the conversation in the comment section. And I don't think that should- Well, they're more inclined to comment. It's a bunch of things they they they're better at commenting the kind of derisive funny thing like there's a mix of humor and derision which somehow attracts a certain part in us as like people who click like like somebody uh you know this this is a new studio or we i was saying how this studio is kind of like the cyber truck release there's something in people where they

want to like the the funny derisive comment about the way the new studio looks for example when you look at comments about your new studio there's a humongous amount of really positive comments but like the ones like the negative ones and they're not even negative they're more like just like shitty in a funny way they rise to the top that's a technology problem because like that shitty comment drives away people like me from commenting i want to comment i still i still comment just comment i'm telling you you're wasting so much time thinking about this no i disagree i i i think there's a place for community on the internet yeah there is and if commenting is i mean what call it something else call it social media

interactions like most people at some level of celebrity stop checking their Twitter, like mentions, Twitter comments, and so on, because of the toxicity. The top comments on Donald Trump or the top comments on Bill Gates or the top comments on Obama accounts, if you look at them, pedophilia is usually involved. And it's like, if I'm Barack Obama,

why would I want to interact in the comments with a community that were like- Well, you can turn your comments off. Yeah, but what I'm telling you is, okay, you're telling me- That's death though, right? You're accepting, yeah, you're censoring people now. They get insane. Well, they just become accustomed to being able to speak as well.

So that's part of the thing like an Instagram. It's not just that you post something. It's that other people get to post things as well yeah and it's a like i i try to fight like i comment you're the only person on instagram who i comment on oh boy is there okay they're fun they they there's a fun community there okay and i ignore like i actually train my brain to ignore any of the haters. Like I've just, there's fun, really loving, intelligent people. That should be the community. Yes, I agree.

Okay. No, but you don't agree because you... No, that should be the community. It should be. I agree with that sentiment. But it isn't currently. And I think that could be... But it is the vast majority.

It's just the kind of people that comment in the first place okay let's let's just do a thought experiment if you have if you have a million people on your twitter and uh they're all fans of your podcast you have a million podcast fans how many of them are going to comment how many how often do you you only you said you only comment on my page how many people comment on people's pages how many people that have enriched important enriching important difficult lives where they're filled with challenges take the time to comment shitty things on internet not a large number very very few most of the people are they have unrealized potential and they're they're not doing well.

Okay, can I propose a different thought experiment? Sure. How many people out of those million that listen to the podcast, mine or yours, that have an intelligent, interesting thought that occurs when they listen, and they would share it with me if it was one-on-one? Quite a few, yeah. That's my problem. I would like them

to feel safe to say something. Yeah, they should be. They're going to have to deal with trolls. No, but you're accepting the way things are now and I'm saying I think there's a technological solution that I'm constantly in. That's what Neuralink is. Neuralink is the future

versions of it that actually allow you to read minds. I mean, that's the technological solution, to realize that this person's flawed because they were abused by their uncle or they got bullied throughout childhood or they have a disease or they're impaired mentally. There's something wrong with them. I mean, that's what you're dealing with when you're dealing with a lot of these people that are online that are angry. Their lives are not good. You're not getting people that live amazing lives that spend the vast majority of the day shitting on people on the internet. But I go to some people's Twitter pages and I see them all day long saying mean shit, all day long arguing about things, all day long complaining about things. And it's the vast majority of their social interaction. It has to be, just based on volume. It's super unhealthy. But I feel, it might be optimistic,

but I think those people, if you put a mirror to them, meaning you make them realize that they're being toxic, that they could be incentivized they could be encouraged to find the the better angels of their nature they could be but a lot of times that toxicity is coming out of a lot of other flaws in their life and their personality like you're talking about you're you're thinking in terms of your own self you're you're a guy who did this fucking ridiculous 30-day challenge you're you're a guy who's running four miles every four hours like this that's not a normal human being you're a guy who's constantly trying to improve you're a guy who's sitting down every day turning off all your distractions and doing deep intellectual work that is not most

people now if you could acquire a group of people that are your fans that have similar goals and similar discipline, that would be amazing. But they would be your friends. I mean, that's what ultimately we would like. We would like all our interactions with people online to be people that we love and care about, people that share like-minded goals, people that you actually can learn from them. You can listen to their words and see their deeds and see how they react to certain things and see how they grow and change. And you actually benefit from this interaction. There's a lot of people that are online that are not capable of that for whatever reason, whether it's programming, meaning like what's happened to them in their life that's led them to this point, whatever failures or insurmountable obstacles that have shown up in their life that have caused them to

fall into this rut that's that's what you get you just get the numbers of humans you're interacting with online there's so many people and then also you get no social cues you you don't feel bad when you say mean things to people you can say hey man you sucked on that show and you're like oh i thought it was a good episode fuck did i suck on your show you know and that that hurts people it bothers people but that's what they're trying to do they're trying to bother you they're trying to lash out at you and the type of people that try to do that are overwhelmingly losers. But this is, I have a dream. There's 10 million plus people that like the Joe Rogan experience and are really cool people.

I meet them all the time. Sure. And I would love to go to the comment section and be inspired by the positive, thoughtful energies or even disagreements that come from a place of respect and love. Like I go to books for that. For example, I read books that are full of thoughtful disagreement or just like respectful, deep thinking. And I go to comments too because they currently for me have 99% of them are that. Okay. But let me stop you there.

This is really important. That's not what you're talking about. What you're talking about is the negative ones. All you've talked about is the negative ones. You haven't said anything about the positive ones. You haven't said anything about going to the comment section, reading, inspiring things.

You haven't said anything about going to the comment section, reading helpful thoughts and strategies and different things that people have said in the comments that have really inspired you. You haven't said anything about that, but you said at least three or four different things about negative comments that people said to the point where you're challenging people to fight. You're giving out the address of your jujitsu school. It's for fun. Don't listen. You're doing what you're doing. Whether it's for fun or't listen you're doing what you're doing yeah whether it's for fun or not you're doing what you're doing you're dwelling on the negative so much that you're literally telling people where you train you understand that yeah i understand it i mean part of that

so you're uh you're doing a good job from a psychoanalyst perspective uh but part of that is for fun i understand it's for. They definitely have a disproportionate effect, especially for a person who's not, like, I'm genetically full of self-doubt. I think of myself often as a fraud. No, that's not full of self-doubt. You know what that is? You just have high expectations of your own performance. I do too.

Listen, I'm not a fan of anything I do. I'm the biggest critic of everything I do ever. That's just how it goes. I'm never satisfied. But that's also why I continue to do things. And the toxic negative comments connect to that little part of you, part of me. And I'm just, I'm bringing up the fact that I feel like the, it's the, the only solution cannot be not to read comments. For now, that is the wise advice. You're giving wise advice not to read comments. But you have to deal with the landscape.

This is the landscape as it's presented to you. You can't imagine a better world where there's no real solution. Because there's no technological solution to avoid the trolls. But here's the thing. So I'm trying to build it. How are you going to build it well i mean without giving away any intellectual secrets well i i think systems that know more about you on as a human in order to be able to incentivize better how to be a better human are needed. So currently the AI systems, the recommender systems

that feed most of the social networks, YouTube, Netflix, and so on, they know very little about you. They have very primitive capture of who you are as a human that ultimately leads to your purchasing behavior. They don't understand about your set of beliefs the source of toxicity a source of pain of how to and how to put you on a trajectory that improves you as a human i think that's an ai problem i think that's a recommender system what's called problem and that's where this i've been working on i'm failing at it i've been at a pretty low point actually psychologically but that's that's a dream for me so the the thing that i've talked about before which is like building an ai girlfriend it's uh it's not a correct way to phrase it it's more about ai systems being able to

know you well and be an assistant be uh to form a connection with you in order to help you become the best version of yourself. That's what friends do. That's what girlfriends, partners do. That's what I think AI systems can do. I think it's possible. And I also think that when we get to the next generation of technologies, and we're already at three hours here. I want to talk to you about

you were there for the neural link experiment the most recent uh demonstration where they uh used it on a pig uh tell me like what what was that like and there there's a pig what first of all the pigs were very happy like uh what they said in that presentation was pretty accurate. They love food. And they just seemed happy, and the people, the caretakers there, seemed like really good people. And where is the implant on the pig? Can you see it physically?

Actually, I don't know. Yeah, it depends on which one we're looking at. I think one of them, they just showed three. One, I think, didn't have it. One had it and already had it removed. And the other one, I think it was. Yeah, it depends on which one we're looking at. I think one of them, they just showed three. One, I think, didn't have it. One had it and already had it removed. And the other one, I think it was still actively in it. So I don't remember them actually showing, like, here it is. And what was the demonstration?

Like, how did they demonstrate how it worked? Well, they – so, first of all, I should say that I have no insider information. I should – like, this is very much, they're a company, okay? I'm just some random dude that showed up. Well, you've interviewed Elon before. You know him. But I'm not, I don't have any insider information. And more importantly, I'm an AI person.

So I'm not a neurobiologist. Like, this was really exciting to me as a spectator to see biological systems pigs right that that are interacting with computational systems but what I'm asking is what was the demonstration that the actual demonstration was at the first level was that they successfully implanted neural link in a pig. The pig seemed to be doing great and then they also showed a pig that had it taken out. That's what at one level. What was going on with the pig that had Neuralink? Was

there any demonstration of what it was doing for the pig? They were doing playback of the 124 so there's 124 channels like the electrodes that connect to the brain that are firing. They're measuring the signals from neurons. And that's time on the x-axis. So from left to right, that's time. And then vertically, that's the 124 points that are lighting up when a neuron is firing. And they were playing that back. And they played it back in such a way where they convert the signal into musical notes.

So you can hear the signal. it's another way to visualize it but you know it it's it's showing that it's effectively being able to read the signal from a hundred uh sorry i'm not sure if i was saying a hundred i meant a thousand neurons or a thousand uh like collection of neurons from the brain so it's that's uh two orders of magnitude that's a lot more than any other device has ever done so like being able to you know get signals from the brain at a high resolution i mean one day the i think the vision is that a thousand just like you mentioned with the TVs, a resolution of a thousand is very low. It would be millions or billions or trillions like it is for LCD displays.

But this is already a really effective. Yeah, eventually your brain's just going to be filled with wires. And then they're going to go, what do we need this brain for? We can just come up with an artificial brain. You're not even going to notice. We can go to sleep. It'll be gradual.

It'll be all gradual. It'll be same with i mean it's a chase of technologies this might be obsolete and useless by the time we live all live in a virtual reality world but this is what i was thinking when it comes to aliens when you look at the alien the archetypal alien what do you see you see something with a big head big eyes no genitals you know you you see? You see something with a big head, big eyes, no genitals. You know, you see no muscles. You see just like a frame, just this weird structure. And I wonder if we're going to get to a point where we start replacing things and improving things and we realize, well, there's some problems with our system and one of the problems is mating one of the problems is testosterone and estrogen and emotions and all these different things that you know the the desire to control property and boundaries and all the different things the territories all the different things that make people tribal all the different things that make people angry and maybe that's what's going to get in the way of innovation that maybe we're going to get to a point where there's going to be some sort of mind-sharing technology that's why they have big fucking heads right maybe there's going to be some sort of interaction technology some some

vastly improved thing that's going to make regular biological functions seem so obsolete that we're going to be readily cast them aside, or maybe we'll cast them aside slowly and gradually like the evolution of the eyeball. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

on the flip side, in a, in the Neuralink presentation, they talked about alleviating human suffering, for example, there to me, one concern is, you know,

all the things that tribalism, all the, what is it, toxic masculinity, or all the things we see as negative, they could be features. Like, there is a need for suffering, there's a need of tension, there's a need of violence and war for us to figure ourselves out. That sort of removing all the suffering, it may not be as productive as we think. Well, it certainly creates competition, and competition creates improvement. I mean, that's the thing about if everyone just got along

and everything was fine and perfect, would there be as much innovation? And if ultimately this human being, this creature, when you look at the overall goal of this thing, as I was saying before, it seems that the goal of this thing is to make better stuff. Well, the best way to make better stuff is to have some motivation to do that. And that's where materialism comes in. That's where sex comes in.

That's where greed and envy, all these different emotions that we think are very bad. But generally speaking, if you talked about those emotions to people, they would say they're negative. They would put them in a negative connotation, but they might be what's powering people to move into this direction with more speed. Yeah, and we all need to be trying to figure that out. And mortality is a big part of the picture. People that talk about immortality, it feels like, like imagine if Joe Biden and Donald Trump lived forever. We would have Clinton, Trump, like we have these families

just like forever running our world. One of the things that makes this world run is the passing away of previous generations, of previous systems of thought and you know so you have to always consider like the things we see as negative as that make up our psychology make up different characteristics of human civilizations are have are positive in some sense that wars create progress they create suffering but they also create progress they create beautiful music and art they create the bonds of love and friendship like nothing ain't like nothing else in this world conflict and suffering the finiteness of

life kind of makes life worth living for many people that is part of the problem right like in order to really appreciate the light you got to experience the darkness you have to know the darkness is real and one of the exciting things about like neural link understanding our mind is not alleviating suffering but enriching the way we experience the world so like enriching this the way we experience suffering the expanding the way we can experience the highs and the lows. It's expanding our consciousness. It's doing the thing that you jokingly said with mushrooms, but basically doing what mushrooms do, but in a controlled and much more powerful way.

Well, maybe something can transcend this biological limitation that we're discussing of being a human and that through this innovation, we can reach some point where there's a different motivation. And this other motivation might camaraderie and love and friendship and do so in a way that's tangible for everybody. That's another problem with things like Neuralink. How much is this going to cost, and how much is this going to separate the haves from the have-nots? Elon was telling me when he was discussing on the podcast, he said you're going to be so much more productive if you have it. Well, people who are more productive are more successful. And if you

need a lot of money in order to get it done, and then you get it done and you're more productive and then more successful, ultimately it's going to, it's going to create a wider and wider gap between people who have everything and people who have nothing. If that, if that individual productivity results in the increase of the gap, but it can also potentially, just like the individuals who have created some incredible technology in this world, you think about Ford, you think about Steve Jobs and Elon Musk, they're individuals, they're super weird, intelligent, and productive,

but they ultimately created a better world with the inventions they made. So it's possible that the productivity of those individuals actually lifts all boats, that it creates ultimately a better world. And as that process goes on, more and more people will be able to afford these technologies so like the the lead adopters the people that get it in the beginning

might have a disproportionate advantage but the that disproportionate advantage doesn't necessarily create a negative outcome for the world if if there is if David favor what he saw was actually a thing trying to communicate that like Elon said love is the answer say say the aliens were trying to communicate love is the answer and here's this badass pilot top gun like Tom Cruise character who just like wasn't sure if he's gonna shoot it or not kind of thing and wanted to fly, but he was just saying like love is the answer. Maybe when you expand the mind, maybe if he was on shrooms or with Neuralink, you'll be able to see that communication.

And ultimately the thing you'll be able to see will be good for society. It's like it's not, you won't, just because you'd be more productive, you won't try to get a bigger yacht bigger bigger house better cars but you'll see that we're like all connected being connected consciousness and that extra productivity you get will result in you helping others more effectively you know that's that's a real possibility too and i have faith in the smart people working on technology. People kind of tend to be negative about technology, but I'm one of them and I work with a lot of them.

The people who are best at creating new ideas have, they almost always have good intentions, but that's not enough. They very often are doing good for the world. So I have hope that the best people creating this technology, at Neuralink certainly, the people I've interacted with, are going to be aware of the negatives

and are going to work their ass off to make a better world. One of the most impressive things to me about... People say negative stuff about Elon and so on. One of the most impressive things about Neuralink and the people I've interacted with at Tesla and all those companies is there's a passion in their eyes. These are some of the best people in the world at just being kids and loving what they do. Like, it's hard to put into words, but when you see that, like, that's what I see with you with comedy. Like, I don't know what the fuck, I don't know anything about comedy. I'm just a spectator.

But there's a joy that I love seeing people who are good at what they do and love what they do and just losing themselves in it. I have faith that when you give those people the power to do what they want to do, that it'll create a better world. And that's what Elon is doing. And that's what I wish more companies and groups were doing. I wish the U.S. government would do that more. Of like, I've had leaders that attract those weird, passionate people that are like, just have this fire in their eyes. I remember like the early days at Tesla with the first Gigafactory opening. I happened to be there because I had to give a talk.

And it was like three at night and the people working there at that factory in the middle of the desert the excitement in their eyes was like like you know that these ladies that like they look like they haven't slept for days but there was just this like glimmer of just love for what they do. And now I was like, that gives me faith that these people, if these people are building our future, they're going to do a pretty good job. Beautiful. Can I,

can I just say one thing? Say. Okay. A poem thing. A lot of people ask me to sing again because of my sexy voice. No, they didn't. Nobody,

nobody. My mom was like, even my mom didn't say maybe maybe that second song maybe maybe uh maybe play piano or something no um i just want to say um because we're talking about love um i uh my uh grandmother passed away just several days ago. And for me, okay, everybody's different, but for me, she basically, she was one of the key people in my life that raised me. She is responsible for much, let's say, much of the good that I am. So she lived through Gaudemort in the early 30s. I'm not sure if you're familiar

with it. Most people think about the Holocaust or the atrocity of the 20th century, but Galdamori in Ukraine was when, basically because of the decisions that Stalin made, millions of people starved. There are stories, that's for another time. If you want to really hear about it, ask Jordan Pearson about it. I have, we've talked about it. And he, there are stories where it's thousands of people practiced cannibalism. They ate their children.

So this is what this, just to give you a context of what starvation does to human beings. She lived through that. She lived through World War II. This beautiful teenage girl, woman, in a Nazi-occupied city. All of that. She never talked about it. She was a bad motherfucker.

talked about it this is this she was uh she was a bad and uh she's uh she was the person that inspired me to be strong and a person that also um to uh to put love out there because like there's uh she loved her husband that passed on the 80s but it was always radiated this like deep love for other human beings that was forever like the thing the reason I talk about love a lot is uh she made it okay for me like my dad started to go on tangents but like my dad is this witty Jew who never who's afraid to say anything now he's kind of like Eric Weinstein he's like brilliant he says stuff that's really interesting and clever. My grandmother taught me that sometimes it's okay to say the cliche simple thing. You don't always have to be super intelligent, super interesting, super complicated

and eloquent. You can just say, you can just talk about love and talk simply, even if it's a cliche thing. So I don't know. I, um, she was 91 and i just wanted to say in this podcast that uh she's um i miss her and she's the reason for any good that i am she's she's uh highly responsible for that so i miss you i love you not you joe my grandma i get it i i don't know if there's a poem I want to do but do you not want to do it or do it no I'll do it's so there's a bunch

of Russian poems that I think I shouldn't but I the the poem If by Kipling

okay I'd love to read it sure it's okay it's a minute okay stop fucking with that all right

fuck you I'm nervous man I you should be Okay. Stop fucking with that. All right, fuck you. I'm nervous, man. You should be. You're about to read a poem in front of millions of people. And I'm speaking for the woman that probably is looking down, shaking her head like, what are you doing? Drink vodka and shut the hell up. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs

and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, or being lied about, don't deal in lies. Or being hated, don't give way to hating, and yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim If you can meet with triumph and disaster And treat those two imposters just the same

If you can bear to hear the truths you've spoken Twisted by knaves that make a trap for fools Or watch the things you gave your life to broken And stoop and build them up with worn out tools If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch and toss And lose and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they're gone and so hold on when there's nothing in you except the will which says to them hold on if you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings now lose the common touch if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you if all men come with you but none too much. If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run,

yours is the earth and everything that's in it. And which is more, you'll be a man, my grandson. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. Goodbye, everybody. thanks John thank you goodbye everybody