The Joe Rogan Experience - #1571 - Emily Harrington

Episode Date: November 27, 2020

Rock climber and adventurer Emily Harrington is a five-time US National Champion in Sport Climbing. She has scaled some of the world's most formidable mountains, including Everest, Ama Dablam, and Cho Oyu, and is the first woman to free climb El Capitan via Golden Gate in under 24 hours.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day hello emily what's happening you seem very normal and that's what always stuns me about people who do insane things like they're just like alex honnold i've met him a few times had him on the show a couple times super normal guy but does what you do yeah i would argue alex isn't as normal as me oh really how so i don't know you've met him i think he's normal he's pretty normal he does very mellow. What he does is exponentially more dangerous than what I do, I would argue. Because there's no ropes at all. He doesn't use ropes.

I do use ropes. Yeah. Yes. Listen, it's dangerous. What you do is dangerous. We'll get there. Yeah. Tell people what you did because it's pretty crazy.

So I did what's called free climbing. crazy um so i did what's called free climbing i free climbed a route on el capitan which is a 3 200 foot cliff in yosemite national park and i did it in under 24 hours that is a long way to go yeah 3 200 and it's something 3 200 feet is what say. I think it might just be like a little more than that. When you're halfway there, Emily Harrington becomes the first woman to scale El Capitan via its notoriously difficult Golden Gate Route. Why is that route more difficult? Well, okay, so... Is it route or route? I don't think it really matters. I say route. Yeah, it should.

I don't think it really matters. I say route. Yeah, it should. So essentially, El Cap is this giant cliff face. And there's hundreds of routes up El Cap, different pathways you can take. And right now, there's currently only like 15 ways to get up it via free climbing. Free climbing being using only your hands and feet to ascend and a rope in case you fall. hands and feet to ascend and a rope in case you fall. And I chose the route called Golden Gate, which is more difficult than the route Free Rider, which people are very familiar with,

because that's the route that Alex Honnold free soloed, meaning he climbed it without a rope. Yeah, that seems insane. So you're less insane than him. Oh, yeah. Definitely less insane than him. Alex is a dear friend of mine, but there are some things I don't understand about him. Yeah, I don't know if he understands those things about him. No. I mean, I have an enormous amount of respect for him, but what he does is truly remarkable. You bonked your head while you're doing it, too, huh? I could see the mark on your forehead. Yeah, you can see the scar.

You bonked your head while you're doing it too, huh? I could see the mark on your forehead. Yeah, you can see the scar. Yeah, and that's actually the second time I hit my head trying to do this. Last year I had a really bad fall. Wound up in the hospital, full concussion, the whole thing. This time it was slightly less serious, but maybe more dramatic because it happened way higher up on the wall. Oof, how high were you up? serious, but maybe more dramatic because it happened like way higher up on the wall.

How high were you up? 2,800 feet, I'd say, like almost to the top. It was a whole, it was very dramatic. What happened? So the day was actually going really well. I've been trying to do this for a few years now, probably I would say three years I've been working towards this goal um and I'd actually done the route in 2015 over the course of six days and I really wanted to like do the same route in 24 hours can I stop you there when you do it over six days do you sleep on the route yeah that's how most people climb El Cap they sleep on the wall it takes like five to seven days or so. That seems more sketchy.

It's different because there's a lot more logistics involved, right? Like imagine you have to like live in the vertical world for days on end. So think about everything you do like from when you wake up to when you go to bed. Including pooing. Oh, yeah. You have to poo vertically? Yeah. We use like – we use wag bags or like you know little

like plastic bags and you like go in that bag and then you put it in another bag and and then carry it with you so you carry your poo for seven days you put it in another bag and then you like hang it below everything and you take it up with you and then you like you take it yeah you don't leave it i'm not i would imagine stuff it in the crack up there is that someone pooing um no that's just someone hanging out oh that's like how you do it. Yeah. You don't leave it. I'm not. I would imagine. Stuff it in the crack up there. Is that someone pooing? No, that's just someone hanging out. Oh, that's like how you do it when you live on the wall. So you have that ledge.

Like the Michael Jackson song. What? Living on the wall. Yeah. Know that song? No. You know? I'm not familiar.

It's a famous song. So you sleep in that thing. I would get zero sleep. I don't like sleep when I'm near the edge of my bed. I get nervous. It's amazing how exhausted you are at the end of the day and how used to the whole, like how used to it you get. You just adjust.

The human body is like, humans are really remarkable in their ability to like adapt to things. And so it's pretty cool how, yeah, it's really scary at first, but then the more you do it, the more you're just like, okay,

well this is kind of normal. Are you, when you're sleeping in that thing, are you fully harnessed in and strapped in? You sleep in a harness and you just usually have like a loose, um, like rope or sling or something attached to the anchor point.

So like if you roll out, you know, if you're one of those people that like rolls out of bed at night, then you don't fall to your death. Can you imagine up there just the feeling of like waking up swinging, hanging from your harness. So he is actually, see how he has that sling around his waist?

No. That's just like his waist no that's just like yeah that's like last resort like that's that's tommy caldwell he uh tommy caldwell you're a psycho he uh he free climbed perhaps the the hardest big wall in the world also on el cap called the dawn wall um and he was up there for 17 days so when you'd imagine 17 days like look at all this stuff that's like he's like a homeless person up there yeah there for 17 days. So you'd imagine 17 days. Look at all this stuff. He's like a homeless person up there. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. You know like the homeless people have those little camps?

He's a maniac. That's a crazy person. Look at him checking his fingernails. Yeah. You see he's also actually missing a finger, which is pretty rare for an elite level rock climber. Oh, wow. What happened to his finger?

I believe it was a table saw accident, home improvement accident. Oh, and so he's using everything but his index. Yeah, he kind of climbs like this and uses the little... The nub? The nub. He's, yeah, definitely, Tommy's one of my true heroes,

ultimate climbing hero. You have a, that is a very small clique right yeah of savage psychos that are willing to climb yeah gigantic mountain faces yeah it's a relatively small group i mean it's growing climbing is definitely growing in popularity um but it definitely used to be like a little bit like a small little community and i think we still feel that way is there a danger in the climbing world or not a danger a concern i should say of people who are seeing people like alex honnold and yourself become famous and get all this attention from these very dangerous climbs, and they want to perhaps accelerate their progress, and jump right in, and try to do some really risky things? I mean, I could see that being a danger,

especially with what Alex does, climb without a rope. I would still argue that what I do is a relatively safe form of climbing. I climb with a rope. When I fall, the rope catches me. It's super safe. When I fall, the rope catches me. Pre-climbing El Cap in a day, what I just did, I definitely cut some corners and took more risk. But that's an achievement that not many people have done or really strive to do.

that's an achievement that not many people have done or really strive to do. And so I think, I think for the most part, climbing is actually a very controlled, very safe activity and you can make it as dangerous as you want it to be. Does that make sense? Yes. I understand what you're saying.

So if you're a person like Alex is deciding, you know, he's, he maps these routes, he does them with ropes and then he's like, I can do this. Yes. And Alex is so unique in a way.

And I think anyone that watches the movie Free Solo, anyone that talks to Alex, understands that what he does is so well thought out and it's so well planned. And every single decision he makes is very calculated. And I think that that's a testament to what climbing is truly about. We're not out to go feel an adrenaline rush when we go climbing. If you're feeling adrenaline, it essentially means you messed up, like something's wrong.

And climbing is very much more about like the movement and the challenge and the mental challenge of all of it than then going out and like trying to get a thrill how did you get involved in this i started climbing when i was 10 years old um i was at i grew up in boulder colorado and my parents used to take me to the Boulder Reservoir this lake me and my cousins. Do you have a Subaru? I did have a Subaru. Everyone in Boulder has a Subaru. I got a Subaru for my 16th birthday. That's like 70% of the cars out there. Yeah green Subaru. Because they're so practical they work in the snow. Yeah I had it for years. So anyway my parents took me to the lake and they had this little festival there. And I grew up, I'm an only child.

I grew up with my two cousins who were boys. And we were just like super competitive with each other all the time. Like all I wanted to do was be better than them at like literally anything. It didn't matter what it was. So we were at this lake and they had a little festival with one of those tower, rock towers, you know, the ones that they let the kids climb on and uh we all tried to climb the wall and I just remember it was like well I have to go to the top because they went to the top and you know there was like no other option um but the interesting

thing that happened when I was climbing was it was just this feeling of like oh I this is what I this is what I meant to do like it was like I just felt like I belonged up there. And I remember the feeling so vividly, even now, 23 years later. It was like, I was scared, but I kind of liked it. And I just really, I got down and I was like, dad, I want to go climbing. Like, that's what I want to do. I want to quit everything else. I was a gymnast. I played soccer.

I was a ski racer. I was like, I don't want to do, I don't want to do any of that anymore. I just want to climb. Why? What, what, what about climbing like canceled all those other things out in your interests? I think, I think part of it was because I was, I was good at it. And I like, kind of knew that I was good at it. Um, like I could feel like I felt I was strong from gymnastics. I had a lot of body awareness like it just felt like something that I could be good at and I really enjoyed just the like feeling of being up high the feeling of the exposure and I really enjoyed enjoyed the process of like solving it like I

loved that cerebral like how how am I going to get to the top like how am I going to solve this puzzle so what was the course of progression? You started out, did you start out just climbing small things with friends? And then did you eventually get a coach? Like, how did you get into like serious hardcore climbing? I was among the first generation of kids, climbers who started out in a climbing gym so like in an artificial setting a lot of people before me started you know in Yosemite uh outdoors like in the mountains but I I grew up like in the 90s and that was sort of like the beginning of climbing gyms and so I I started in a gym on plastic and my dad took me to the local climbing gym in Boulder.

It's called the Boulder Rock Club. And he enrolled me in like a kid's class. And they sort of noticed a little bit of talent, I think, in me. And they invited me to join their junior climbing team. Like there's junior climbing teams. Now every gym in the country has a junior climbing team. Is there a benefit to learning on plastic first? I mean, I think access for one, like if you live in a place where there's no rocks,

it's pretty easy to go still go climbing, you could go to the gym. That said, it's very much become its own discipline, gym climbing. And I use gym climbing still for training. Like I think it makes you strong. It's a really easy, it's an easy way to get a workout in like the, the body awareness factor. You can kind of like distill down all the, like the movements and in a really controlled setting. It's also super safe when, when you say training. So like, if you're going to practice for a big climb, something like you just did, do you have like a training schedule like do you try to peak like an athlete would for the olympics or for some other kind of event like how do you how do you train yeah i do i do try to train so that i am peaking at a certain time i'm

it's a little bit experimental though honestly i've i've been working towards this goal in particular for for many years really experimenting with how how to train for it because it does require such a variety of skills like you need the strength and endurance of of technical like of a technical rock climber in order to like climb the pitches cleanly but you also need logistical support so it has to be like the right time of year you need the right partner you need a good weather and then you need like the stamina to be climbing for 21 hours um and so a lot of it a lot of it was just trial and error for me but i did spend a lot of time in the gym training on plastic and then i would supplement that with like really long trail runs and big days in the eastern sierra like climbing bigger routes um and then also there's

a mental component so I had to sort of get my head back especially after my accident last year I had to get my head back in the game and um you know feel comfortable leading on run out terrain with big fall potential again so there was just like a lot um and i did i think this year in particular because of of covid i was actually able to focus a lot more like i think that was sort of the key for me i stopped traveling i was at home i had like a routine um i had like a good sleep schedule going on i had like my days that i was training and i was able to like have a really good routine. And then when the season started, I felt really well prepared. When you train, do you have someone who is a coach who sets aside a training schedule

or do you just do it yourself? Is it an intuition? Like you just like have a sense of what you need to train? Like how do you decide what you do? I used to have a coach. Um, I, because when I first started climbing, I was basically just only doing climbing competitions. So I just was a competition climber. So I have a really solid base in, in training and how to train. I no longer work with a coach, but I definitely like read a lot and I kind of like grab bits and pieces of information from my friends. And so, yeah, I do have a set training schedule approach that I kind of like build out in my head and try to stick to it. That said, I'm like pretty,

I'm pretty flexible, but I do not just climb. Like if that's what you're asking, I do a lot of specific, specific training. Um, mostly I try to train what I'm weakest at, which is like pure power, pure strength. So you're saying that you do trail runs too, and you find that that helps you? I do think running helps helps me a lot of climbers would say that running is like not that good for climbing but why is that because it it makes you tired essentially and it decreases your power and your ability to like really pull hard um like you're not really supposed to go running on your rest days but i do it anyway um and for me sanity wise like i just love running just Just good for the head. Yeah.

Yeah. So they think that just exhausting your legs from running will mess you up when you're climbing. Yeah. The idea. Yeah. I think so. I think it just like depletes your ability to like pure power, you know, like if you're doing like a, I mean, I don't know if you're doing like a weightlifting workout, it doesn't see, it seems like you're not supposed to go run a few miles before you try to like bench press your hardest weight. Yeah. Is there two schools of thought on that? Because it seems like another school of thought would be if you can condition your body to run and climb, you'll, you'll have a stronger body than one that just climbs.

Well, that's my philosophy. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously you're out there kicking ass. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm trying, I'm still, I'm a work in progress. Well, aren't we all? So you basically are self-trained in that sense where you don't have someone who sets a schedule aside for you. Like today you're going to lift weights today. You're going to run today. And so how do you do that? Is it just based on how you feel? Do you

write it out? Like what, like when Emily wakes up in the morning and decides today is a what day, how do you do that? I it's, it's a lot of how I feel. Sometimes I plan it out. Sometimes I write it out. Um, I, it depends on how much time I have. Like if I have a chunk of time to train, then I'll build like a training schedule. Like if I have a month, I'll, I'll be like, be like okay i'm gonna climb two days on one day off for the next month um and then on the first day i'm gonna do like more power style training so like shorter workouts high you know like shorter workouts higher reps or whatever you want to call it um like fingerboard um bouldering uh stuff that really like increases my power and then on the second day i'll focus more on like power endurance

or endurance and that's sort of how i structure it and i i climb i do i do hangboard workouts which is essentially just like hanging on different grips yeah i've seen those things yeah it's a really effective way to train your fingers you can't get manicures can you i mean i do get me i actually do get manicures, can you? I mean, I do get manicures. I actually do get manicures. They just don't turn out that well. You're digging into rocks all the time. They chip off really fast.

I like it. I like to feel girly sometimes. Just recognize it's very temporary in terms of manicure at least. Yeah, it's temporary. So when you're training, do you use heart rate monitors? Do you register or record your recovery? Like how do you do all that stuff? I don't do that as much. I've actually played around a little bit with heart rate monitors. A lot of times when I'm like resting on the wall, that's something I'm

really focused on. Like a lot of times when you're climbing and you get really tired, a lot of times you'll feel it in your forearms. They'll get really like tight. We call it pumped. Like there's a lot of lactic acid buildup and that causes you to like panic in a way and get a little bit of tunnel vision, like, and start to, um, start essentially you'll just fall. Um, and so a lot of times what I focus on when I'm like in that place is trying to lower my heart rate, like very consciously. And I've used a heart rate monitor to do that. Um, but I don't do it while I'm climbing anymore. It's more just, uh, me recognizing that that's what needs to happen and putting effort into lowering my heart rate. Well, you know, we were talking before with your fiance and we were talking about whoop straps, you know, and like the idea of checking your recovery and we were talking about whoop straps you know and like the idea of checking your

recovery and making sure like do you do any of that where you wake up in the morning and you make sure that you're good to go so does that in any way affect like how rigorous your training is going to be do you do you measure your heart rate when you wake up or anything i don't do that and i and it's been for a specific reason. I actually am planning on starting to do that. But because I had this project sort of looming the last few months, I didn't really want to change my approach because I thought it might mess with me psychologically. Right, if you wake up and you say, oh, my God, I'm not recovered.

Oh, no, I'm not recovered. What do I do? I try to be really intuitive about it um i used to be very like data driven and very focused and very like obsessed with everything that i did um and i it honestly in some ways i feel like it kind of hindered me and so now i try to be a little more intuitive but i think i think it's a balance i'm kind of like going back into maybe maybe I need to start tracking my sleep a little bit more because I'm a notoriously bad sleeper because I would imagine the reason why I'm asking all these questions about training is because I would imagine that

when you're doing something that's literally I know you're saying it's relatively safe but for a person like me who's a big chicken shit it's not relatively safe it seems quite insane and and i would imagine you would want every single edge so i would i would imagine that if i was going to do something like that i would want to know exactly how my workouts are affecting my body like okay i i lifted weights this day and then the next day i felt pretty beat up so i did this and then i recovered i checked my heart rate. All right, I'm back. I'm good to go.

So now this day I'm going to run or this day I'm going to do fingerboard exercises. I would imagine that there's so much mind fuckery going on when you're going to do something that difficult that you want to put all these pieces in place the best way possible. Yeah. And see, I would argue that all of that is like, it's like too much. It's like too much data. And it's like,

that actually gives me a mind fuck versus, versus me just waking up and being like, Oh, I feel good today. I'm going to listen to that. Like that little like internal voice. I think I'm a little bit more, a lot of people are super data driven, especially in climbing and they write everything down and they, I'm a little bit more, and Adrian, my fiance is very much like that as well. Like he loves the data. And for me, I find it to,

I think it messes with me a little bit. And so to a certain extent, I'm a little more focused on like my own mental state and my own like psychology and sort of like, you know, trying to just figure out how to have confidence up there. Have you ever seen the movie Dirtbag? No. No? No. Really? Oh, it's amazing. What's it about?

It's about a climber about a guy who literally climbed his whole life i forget the gentleman's name he's a famous climber fred becky yeah i know who fred becky is dirtbag meaning that you know he would just camp out and sleep on people's couches and climb and all across the world and was meticulous in his his recording it's an amazing documentary even for someone like me has zero interest in doing that but he climbed till he died yep i mean he just kept going and it shows it in the film you know you see uh footage of him when he was younger whereas i mean there he is like overnight camping prohibited nope fuck you i'm sleeping here he just slept everywhere and it just shows like how bizarre his obsession with hiking and camping and and climbing was i mean he was he just wanted to get out there and and climb

all these different peaks and all these different peaks and all these different mountains and all these different paths and recorded everything. Like super meticulously had boxes and boxes of notes. And he would go over the notes and show people routes and all the different things that he learned while he was doing it. I mean, he was obsessed. I am just fascinated by people that have a singular obsession like that and carry it for their entire life. Yeah. I mean, I think climbing for me, I personally think climbing is very easy

to become obsessed with because there's so many different facets to experience it in. Like you can go to the climbing gym and just play around on some plastic holds, or you can work towards climbing something like Mount everest and then like everything in the middle and so there's just a lot to do like i just feel like i don't even have i i have like a lifetime's worth of things to do in climbing that makes sense i mean watching that guy watching the fred becky movie becky right yeah watching that movie and and seeing his lifelong obsession seeing other climbers sort of talk about him and the experiences they they had with him and about like there's it's there's more going on than just climbing right it's there's

some sort of strange it's a chase of a mental state. There seems to be a mental state of people that climb and want to reach the peaks of these things and navigate these difficult routes that there's some sort of a game going on in your mind. And there's rewards. There's like this good feeling that everyone is getting while they're doing this you're like filling yourself up with endorphins when you're accomplishing these things is that safe to say yeah i i could agree with that i mean i i think for me climbing is my passion and it is essentially like my vehicle for experiencing like, like the all of the wide spectrum of emotions that we all have, you know, it's my vehicle for exploring fear. It's my vehicle for

exploring achievement and success and ego and confidence. And, you know, I think you could really like use anything in order to explore those emotions. But everyone think in some way is is trying to find what their vehicle is to explore those emotions and for me it truly is climbing like up there on El Cap like I went through the whole spectrum of emotions the whole day just up and down in like the most extreme ways possible when you have these moments where things don't go well where you have a fall or when you have these moments where things don't go well, where you have a fall or when you had your concussion and you got really banged up overcoming those things. What is that like? Cause I would imagine that it's such a scary thing to do.

Well, maybe for me, I don't know as much for you, but the, I'm watching pictures of you, my hands sweat. I not like legitimately like Alex Honnold freaks me out every time I see videos of him because he's got

no nothing saving him yeah my hands start sweating yeah i can't handle no i think all our hands sweat when we watch him but um yeah so for me it's i think for example when i when i hit my head this time the time i got the scar um i was on one of my day had gone so perfectly like i was climbing super well everything was great i there it is ouch um yeah that was the rock bottom moment so i was climbing and i was in the sun i slipped off i felt like i was just gonna have a really normal fall super safe like nothing bad was gonna happen and then i hit my head and i instantly like just felt the blood pouring down my face and And it was super dramatic. And it was super scary. And I lowered down and Adrian sort of assessed me for concussion symptoms

and tried to, you know, figure out if there was anything super serious. And turns out that there wasn't really. And so it, it came time to decide, like, Oh, should I keep going? Or should I try to give up? Like what, you know, what, what's the best course of action now? And honestly, in my head, I was like, part of me was like, I don't want to keep climbing. Like, I'm emotionally kind of destroyed and drained. And I don't think I can do this. Tell me how it happened. Like, what was the sequence of events?

So I was climbing this pitch. And it's a pitch that i've never fallen on before um and the next pitch is the hard one which is where i think i went wrong because i was sort of thinking ahead like i wasn't focusing on what was happening in front of me i was thinking about the the next pitch and i was like i need to get this one out of the way so that i can focus on the hard one and therefore i was climbing the sun when it's too hot like the friction's not as good it's more slippery all those things um and i was rushing it i didn't rest enough the friction is not as good when it's hot yeah why you want it to be cold because your skin sweats oh okay and like the rubber on your shoes isn't as sticky.

Like it's just the heat, the heat radiates off the rock. It just gets more slippery. Like imagine like a granite face just like baking in the sun. Like everything's more slippery and you're all sweaty. And so it's just not ideal. And I could have waited, but I didn't. So I was climbing and I was like kind of traversing and so I was trying to do this move and I rushed it and I slipped and I fell but I had like a piece of gear down into my right

and I just didn't I just didn't anticipate like the physics of how I was gonna fall and I kind of fell sideways and I couldn't get my feet out in front of me in time. And we watched the footage later. It was just like, it was kind of like my head just like bounces off the wall, like a, like a basketball. And I must have just hit like a crystal or something with my forehead, like some sort of something sticking out of the rock. And there was just blood everywhere, like head wounds. They just, you know, they bleed, they bleed a lot.

And so there was a lot of blood and i lowered down and i was super bummed it was just like my confidence was sort of shattered like i could i just kept thinking back to last year i was like oh no my attempt's over everything was going so well like this sucks and i was letting myself go to that place of doubt and that place of like it's over and last year when you hit your head you hit your head much harder last year i fell on the first pitch of the route um so close to the ground uh and but i fell like 50 feet and i hit a ledge and didn't the rope like didn't catch me i hit the ledge because i was uh again rushing and not placing enough protection. So you fell 50 feet without being caught?

Uh-huh. I hit a ledge. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was pretty gnarly. How did you hit it? I don't remember because I got knocked out. Yeah.

But I had this crazy rope burn on my neck. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was pretty – I had – yeah. I had to get rescued, like full on ambulance, the hospital, like spinal injury worries, all that. It was pretty serious. It was definitely the worst accident I've ever had.

Um, and it was, I walked out of the hospital that day, which is incredible. Like that just doesn't happen very often. There's me. Dressed up like a burrito. And what, so this is when they were carrying you to the hospital yeah that's a rope burn oh my god i also don't know how that happened oh wow yeah wow and there's no footage of this right you didn't you didn't review footage of it there's uh well it was dark when i started climbing so there actually is footage of alex honnell was belaying me um there's footage of him belaying me what does belay mean belaying is the person who holds your rope at the bottom oh okay so he was like essentially holding my rope but it's a little bit nuanced because the way we were climbing we were doing

something called simul climbing um we were so we were essentially i was tied onto the top of the rope he was tied onto the bottom of the rope and we were climbing together up the wall simultaneously in order to save time and it's actually it is a more dangerous form of climbing than just like one person climbing while the other person belays them and then they and then i would stop and bring him up and then we'd go on from there. Like instead we were climbing together. Whoa. That makes me nervous just thinking about it. Yeah. So if someone falls, you're kind of connected to them.

Yeah. We are always connected to somebody when you fall. But if he had fallen, it would, it's, it's kind of a complicated form of climbing that not many people do. It's definitely like an advanced strategy. So was someone filming yeah i have a i have a filmer who's making like a a movie about me um and he was filming because he was there filming that attempt and he was filming alex as alex was like sitting on the ground getting ready and have you reviewed the footage yeah what is it like watching yourself it's pretty

it's pretty like it's it's hard it was hard i didn't watch it for the first few months i was like i don't know how long does it take to fall 50 feet it would imagine that's a few seconds like a i don't know what's the how fast you fall like isn't it like not nine point yeah 9.8 meters per second yeah so it's a couple seconds at least yeah um at least it felt that way oh god so yeah so that was that was something like a mental hurdle to get over for this year and then this year something similar happens only I was way higher on the wall but I was really close to succeeding this time and I had this

part of me was like well I just want to give up like I don't want to do this anymore I want to be done like I'm tired of this project I'm over it when you got over the first injury the really bad one from last year what was the the process of recovery like how long did it take before you felt comfortable enough to climb again it you know I was super lucky I think I definitely got away with one it was one of those things where I got away with one like I walked out of the hospital I was um back climbing I I took I think I took a month off but I went to like I went to Ecuador and climbed a volcano with my dad and like went skiing and just did a bunch of things like how long afterwards we went to ecuador like four days later what yeah what kind of crazy father do you have he's awesome my dad loves all sports and

activities and he's like super passionate about everything and this was his dream was to like go climb this volcano in Ecuador. And we'd been planning it for months. And I actually felt that was one of the reasons I felt so bad that I got hurt. It was like, I was like, Oh no, I'm supposed to go on this trip with my dad. And like, we had, you know, we had this whole plan. He's been training. He trained like for months.

He's 65 years old. Like, you know, it was one of those things. So we went and we climbed the mountain and like, thankfully I able to do that with him it was really cool what kind of like physical damage did you suffer in terms of like how long did it take for you to recover i i honestly i would say i felt pretty normal within a month real so yeah a little back pain but concussion concussion yeah the concussion symptoms were a little gnarly for a little while but four days later you're climbing a goddamn volcano yeah well we're headed there yeah how long after that before you were actually climbing i i maybe like three weeks so while you were

suffering from some at least concussion symptoms you were climbing yeah not recommended we went to the doctor and she was like you can't go to ecuador you shouldn't do that and i was like yeah that's nice see ya when when you watch the footage of the fall and you you know you see yourself hit the wall and the just the the impact and what happened to you does that obviously didn't deter you from doing anything but has it changed the way you approach climbing yes and no I I think the reason that it was a little bit easier for me to overcome that hurdle was because I was it was really obvious what had gone wrong and it was really obvious that the gone wrong. And it was really obvious that what had gone wrong was within my control.

Like I simply had not placed enough protection for the difficulty of the route. It was an easy climbing for me, but it was really dark. It was cold. It was slippery. And I was just going too fast and not placing enough gear. But can you explain that to people? So when you're doing a route or a route when you're on your way up you decide okay I need to place something here in case I fall and do you do it more when it's more difficult exactly and you

gave yourself a lot of space I did I gave myself a lot of space because I'd done it so many times before. And I wanted to, so I only had, you only have like a certain number, like a certain amount of pieces of gear, right? And Alex and I were trying to go really fast and climb the first part of the route within, you know, within a couple hours. And so I was trying to conserve the gear. So I was trying to like not use it very often so we could cover more distance in in one go you know because otherwise you then you have to stop and then like because he follows me and takes the gear out so i place it he takes it out on the way up and then we meet and he gives it back to me and then we start again and so i was essentially just trying to conserve gear i wasn't placing enough and so the next time around I was like well I'll just place more gear like I'll just be a little more conservative and so this season it was a lot of it was some baby steps of like going back to that route and just placing a lot of gear so I felt super safe and then you know climbing it in the same style that I was going to climb

with Alex simul climbing it but still placing gear. And then during my try this year, I actually told Alex because he was, he's definitely more comfortable than almost anyone I know on El Cap. Most people at least feel a little bit of intimidation, a little bit of fear, like, you know, there's a little bit of anxiety around it. And he's just, it's so casual that he was like, yeah, you should just like, you know, just run it out, like go, go all the way. Like he was basically just wanting me to do it the same way that he was like, yeah, you should just like, you know, just run it out. Like, go, go all the way. Like he was basically just wanting me to do it the same way that I was doing it before. And I was like, you know, Alex, I'm going to be a little slower this time. Like, I just, I think I need that for my head. And so he felt like you should do it with the same amount of gear that you did

before. Just don't fall. Just don't fall this time, Emily. Yeah. Kind of simple. A little bit. Yeah. He was like, you know, but Alex, the one thing he always says is he's just like okay follow your heart and i was like okay well i'm gonna go slower well just so the audience knows alex told me that he did a route once and on his way up realized that he hadn't brought any chalk so he had to borrow it from someone else who was strapped to ropes so he's free soloing yeah no chalk yeah says hey uh i don't have any chalk and the guy gives him a bag and said he left the bag at the top so that when they got to the top they could retrieve the bag yeah that's the classic alex situation like how do you not bring like if you lift weights you you like chalk it's like it's very

important for me too i'm kind of obsessed with having chalk i don't have chalk i just won't go climbing i just can't imagine but i you know i think he's the type of person that um you know going back to like talking about heart rate like I bet I bet when he's in those types of situations, like he's so relaxed and his heart rate is so low. And he's just he's a different I think he's truly unique, you know, and I think I think that he just has a different like even brain chemistry than than a lot of us in terms of like how he feels fear and how he can maintain that composure in a very dangerous situation well he's remarkably calm all the time yeah like he just seems always like on this one plane yeah he's got like this like 55 beats per minute that he just stays at all the time yep and it's great climbing with him actually because it kind of rubs off on me a little bit like when i climb with alex i feel

more confident i feel more capable i tend to climb better um even though he kind of gives me shit all the time for being nervous he's always like you're always nervous like you're you're always stressing out but it's actually when i'm with him i'm like you know what i i can chill out a little bit i can like i can i can be on that wavelength a little bit more so that's part of the reason why I like climbing with him up there and why I chose him for this project well that makes sense I mean I guess when you're around people that are if you're doing a thing and you're around people that are excellent at that thing it's contagious or at least inspirational yeah I mean I think it's important to like do do yeah, to practice,

practice things that you want to be better at with people who are better than you. Yeah, for sure. Um, what was it like, do you remember vividly your first day climbing after the, the injury? Um, yeah, it was in Ecuador. I went to this little like, crag, little climbing area after we climbed the volcano. And I, I remember climbing, but I had like back pain, you know, and it was from the injury. Yeah, from the injury. And I just remember thinking like, Oh, I'm still not back. Like, I'm gonna have to, to like maybe I'm not ready yet you know it was one of those for me I've always been the person who I don't really give myself a break very easily and I'm pretty hard on myself but this time I think I learned a pretty valuable lesson that was like I do need to be a little bit more gentle with myself and be okay with like taking a step back so I actually tried climbing and was like nope not today I'm not gonna do it today and I just took photos for the rest of

the day and then I didn't climb again until maybe three weeks later what do you do to try to recover from something like that in terms of like physical recovery do you do you take ice baths do you try to stretch do you get massaged like how do you when you you feel like beat up or something like that how do you how do you bounce back yeah massage I do as often as I can not enough um and then really really light stretching like foam rolling um I have like a little travel lacrosse ball that I lay on sometimes. But again, I am not as diligent with it as I probably should be. But then after I got injured, I was really diligent about it. I think it's something that you kind of should maintain though. And I definitely don't do that.

Now, do you do this professionally? Yeah. Is this all you do? How long has that been the case? Um, I, well, I guess I, I should say that I became like a true professional rock climber when I joined the North face team. And that was in 2008. Um, right after I graduated from college. That's a long time. It's a really long time. Yeah. Yeah. So you've been a pro for 12 years? Yeah. 12 years.

And before that, I was like doing a lot of competitions and, you know, had sponsors and stuff like that. But I was also in school and then I went to university and I wanted to be a lawyer actually. So I graduated from the University of Colorado in Boulder and I was going to like study for the LSAT. And that's when the North Face approached me and uh I was like okay well I'll try this for a little while and see how it goes like it's a cool opportunity to travel and see the world and keep climbing and then I just didn't were you were you hesitant to so like not at all no but you went to school for something else and then yeah you're doing something physical that's always weird right because you're relying on your body which can break but you can always

go back my mindset i think i was 20 years old like i didn't really you know i didn't have like a super good like 10-year plan or whatever you know i was like i'll do this for a few years and then i can just go back to school right like. Like that's, that's great. Um, but now being a professional athlete, like has sort of like morphed into this viable option to make a living. Well, for me at least. And when you're sponsored, like how does that work? Do you, are you required to do a certain amount of climbs per year? Are you required to make social media posts? Like how do, how do they, how does that work? Yeah. So I work with a bunch of companies, but the North face is the main one. And it work yeah so I work with a bunch of companies but the North

Face is the main one and it's essentially I mean yeah it's essentially like kind of it's like a marketing job like we're we are expected I wouldn't say required but expected to participate in social media tell our stories like be you know be open about that and then we do a lot of photo shoots we do a lot of expeditions a lot of big trips and then personal projects as well and and yeah kind of expected to tell the stories of those and to work with the brand to you know make it worth their while as well so they just kind of want you to be cool and wear their stuff like you're out there doing cool stuff and yeah you're wearing the north and be active within the brand and like yeah is that how does that feel like to be like that's what you do for a living i i would

be lying if i said that i didn't feel sometimes a little bit of like imposter syndrome you know kind of like oh like do I actually deserve this like that happens with everybody though yeah I think so yeah like why am I like why am I here right like I don't I'm not special right well that's probably why you're special maybe I think yeah I don't know I think people that actually think they're special genuinely are – that's more of a hindrance. I think you're better off with – yeah, I think you're better off feeling like shit. Okay. I'm going to continue with that then. I do because I think it makes you work harder. I really do.

Yeah. I think the people that think they deserve success, the people that think they deserve success the people that think they're awesome i think you don't have as much uh nervousness or uh at least doubt which forces you to work harder you know i think there's there's real value in feeling fake like feeling like how am i here i feel like these other people are they're really really good. Like I know so many successful people that think that way, whether it's athletes or comedians or so many people suffer from imposter syndrome. Yeah. And I think it's real.

I've, I've experienced it. Yeah. I think it's important. I think it makes you work harder. Cause you just, I think if you just think you're the shit, like you're not gonna,

you're not gonna have that extra edge. Yeah. And I guess like admitting to it it also like makes you more relatable to people i think sure like admitting that you struggle with self-confidence and like imposter syndrome and feeling like you're not good enough all the time is yes it helps other people be like oh yeah yeah cool i feel that way too yeah well it's i think it's valuable for all of us because we want to know that you're human right yeah

you're doing a superhuman thing right you're climbing the face of a giant goddamn mountain it's crazy when someone does something that everyone else is terrified of

we want to know like what is that lady like like what is and you're like oh I feel like a fake yeah people are like oh she's like me

I'm terrified most of the time and I cry a lot. That's what it's like. Yeah, see, people love to hear that. They do. They really do. It's very valuable when you can relate genuine anxiety and fears and things to people because you are doing an extraordinary thing with your life.

I mean, how many professional rock climbers are there yeah i mean there's there's a few there's not many there's more now a lot more lawyers yeah it's true yeah it's it's a lot more now than when you first started yeah for sure i mean climbing is kind of exploded in popularity in a way um with the like the resurgence of climbing gyms like there's climbing gyms in every yeah every city now multiple really good way to get a workout like people don't realize how hard it is to do it's really hard yeah i i mean yeah i love it i think it's so cool that people now have access to like experience climbing in in the inner city if they want to i think it's rad and it also now it's an olympic sport so or it will be in the olympics next year it was meant to be in tokyo how do

they do it as an olympic sport they have a particular path that you have to try to climb up and so it's three disciplines um because it's new it's a new sport um they've essentially combined like the three main disciplines of competition climbing into one so there's one medal and they combine the scores and they have uh lead climbing which is with a rope but like the the roots are longer like say i don't know 50 feet or so um so it's sort of sort of like an endurance challenge and it's like they set a path and that it's meant to be difficult and each person gets one try and whoever gets the highest wins that discipline and then there's bouldering which is like shorter no ropes the movements are like more powerful more explosive there's a little bit of a parkour

element there's like a lot of jumping around yeah there you go whoa um lots of like big features like volumes um where's that guy going yeah exactly, exactly. Where's he going? It's really confusing. It's super entertaining. If you're hanging in that position, what is your next viable option? He's going to throw his feet up to where his left hand is. And then he's going to bring his left hand into his right hand. What? Yeah. What?

That's my estimate. That's me reading it. And then where does he go and then he's gonna go straight down with a sticker on it that one yeah it's incredible like bouldering competitions are so cool oh my god they're super entertaining and they all have that sort of alex harnold body long yeah lean very thin but not everyone like a lot of the women are quite short like quite small it's kind of like climbing of like climbing is unique because it's really complicated and it kind of caters to all different body types.

In a lot of ways, it's better to be taller, but in other ways, it's sometimes better to be shorter because it's always different. The roots are always different. I would imagine taller would be better because you have a longer reach. You can reach up and grab a whole stuff. But I can put my feet a lot higher than a lot of people and i'm a lot more flexible than most people what do you mean where you can put your feet like i can put my foot like above my head if i want because you're flexible from gymnastics yeah oh interesting and do you maintain that do

you like work on your flexibility just specifically for that i should i don't there's a lot of this with you i know oh i should get more massages you can't do everything oh i guess so that's lead climbing okay um so that's with the rope and you just get one try on the route with the bouldering you got you get like they call them problems so you get maybe four or five of those problems and you get five minutes on each one and however you do on each one gives you a score. And then you have speed, which is right there. Same route everywhere all the time.

And it's just speed. I've seen some of those speed ones. We've watched them on the show. It's bananas. Yeah, it's really fast. They go flying. Super, yeah. Really, really cool.

It doesn't seem real. How does a person get up a wall like that? I don't know. I mean, they also have a different... Like, speed climbers actually have a different body type than a lot of the, like, sport climbers and boulders. Because a lot of it is, like, really lower body explosion. So that's Olympics.

Whoops. This is music to the explosion. Oh, look at these guys going. Yeah. So the rope is not helping them that's what's crazy because if you saw someone just make up their way up a wall like that no that's not helping like that is insane yeah so that's speed climbing you have to be so strong to do that i mean that is just bonkers wow yeah i've never i've actually never um never speed climbed really really not like that just because i've always focused so much on on technical difficult rock climbing

and other things like mountains and all these other disciplines what is this person doing that's bouldering okay so this is trying to figure out how she's trying to solve the problem of like she's not she has no rope so no rope so if she falls she's just gonna what she's just gonna hit the pads the pads are super thick they're almost like uh pole vaulting pads kind of oh maybe a little more firm than that okay wow that's wild to see yeah so that's the olympics yeah you're not interested in that i mean i i would have been if i was like 10 years younger you've passed there's no way i could qualify for the olympics really no way why why do you say that

because it's it's such a different it's a different it's almost like a different sport and it takes like the dedication to only doing that for years and years and years and i did that throughout my teenage years and then i kind of moved on to other things i would imagine that hand strength is one of the most important things like the ability to hang on to stuff yeah that's why i like travel with my hangboard and hang all the time and like do a lot of where Where do you put the hangboard when you travel? Like door? Yeah.

I bring those pull up bars that you like screw on between the door jam and then I hang it from there. Wow. And then you just hang. So if you're staying in a hotel, you just like hang in the bathroom wall on the door. Yeah. Wow. And do you do it for time?

Do you do reps? Do you chin ups? What do you do on that yeah all of that there's like little there's exercises you can do there's a lot of research now that's been done on finger strength so that's one of the things you use like that yeah i the one i have is wood because the wood is actually a little bit friendlier for your skin um but yeah similar you do different hand positions and sometimes you'll hang for like five seconds and then take 10 seconds off and do it again and then sometimes you put weight on your body

mono yeah mono someone can hang from one finger people can do crazy stuff people can do pull-ups from one finger what one hand one finger pull-ups people can do front levers from like one finger there's all climbers are amazing front lever when you like put your body to um oh when you lean back oh christ i bet you could find a video of that i'm nervous now so someone can there it is oh my god i can't do that. That is freaky. Jan Hoger is a beastie single finger plank man machine. Yeah. I would agree with that statement. Look at that.

That's crazy that he can do that. Yeah. That guy must have ridiculous fingers. He's one of the strongest climbers in the world. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. That's bananas. Yeah.

Is this him climbing stuff with no feet? Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, that's the tendons and all the stuff in your fingers and your hands. They must be ridiculous. Those are pinkies, yeah. Pinkies. Oh, my God.

That's crazy. I just heard something. If you lost your pinky, you lose 50% of the strength in your hand. Really? Yeah. I don't have confirmation on that. It's one of those Snapple fact type facts I saw on the internet recently.

How's that possible? That's a bummer. That doesn't seem right. Because when I draw my bow back, I'm only using three fingers. But maybe it's like the way it's all connected. It doesn't feel weak at all. I think it's like if you cut it off,

not like if you've done other work to strengthen the rest of your hand. I guess I'm drawn my bow back. I'm barely using it. I mean, my hand is just kind of locked in place. I just saw the pinkies. It's more my back and shoulders, but I feel like that's not real. Huh?

Maybe. Maybe it's hacked off. Yeah, but it's all linked back into here, you know? Right, and your forearms and everything. It's all like, yeah. That's what makes sense. Yeah. Well, you squeeze it.

Your pinky provides half your hand strength. Wow. Stick your pinkies out and raise your glasses to toast your fifth finger. Without it, your hand would be half as strong. Wow. It's weird that things are connected in that way. Yeah. You know, there's a sort of, of it's a unit it's not one thing

there's a lot going on yeah it's all working together yeah so when you do your hand strength exercises do you have like a routine where you go one two three four you'll work all of them or yeah i do i tend to do um like hand grip positions like i'll hold on to something like this and i'll hold on to something like this and i'll hold on to something like this and I'll hold on to something like this. So you must have like ridiculous hands. I mean, my hands are strong, but they're not like, that's one of my weaknesses I think in climbing is my finger strength. So I'm always working on it. Do you have to make sure that your body weight is very light when you do something like that too? Like do you diet down before you do something to make sure that you're as light as possible?

Yeah, it's an interesting subject because climbing is like a strength to weight ratio sport. It does benefit you to be lighter, but at the same time, um, it's really easy to take it too far. And I think, um,

and then once you take it too far, it's, it can be very bad, like injuries, weaker. Um, and eating disorders is like kind of a yeah it's definitely a thing in climbing yeah that's what i was gonna get to that's and i suffered

from it when i was younger when i was in heavily involved in competitions like and it's like once you start to experience a little bit of success from losing weight like there's so much more incentive to just like keep going down that road. And I think it's actually a pretty dangerous road. And it's something that we're, climbers are starting to talk about more, which I think is, is super good and super healthy. Especially like with the growth of climbing competitions and with the growth of, of youth, like becoming more interested in climbing. Right.

That, that the edge that you get from doing that is not worth pursuing because there's a lot of negative drawbacks to it it is and it's pretty temporary and it's not very sustainable and you know in a lot of ways i feel lucky that i came out of that period and like kept climbing because it's hard it's hard to to go through that phase and then sort of come out of it and have to deal with like not climbing as well for a while and what does that mean and you know it's it's kind of a mind fuck um and so that's why that's why i talk about data the way i do because sometimes it's like i just can't i can't like emotionally handle it i need to like take a step back and just be intuitive yeah sometimes there's

too much data and not enough just being. Yeah. And I was one of those, I was one of those athletes when I was younger that I was like obsessed with the number on the scale. I was obsessed with how much I ate. I was obsessed with every little thing and it got to the point where it just almost destroyed me, if that makes sense. That's a giant problem with people right like the just in general being obsessed with the scale and and the numbers yeah and if you're in a sport where you're literally carrying your body weight up a mountain it's not just like so many girls are obsessed with the scale for whatever reason even if they look good they don't like the number like you look

great but you weigh 145 pounds like shit i hate that i want to be 135 like but you don't like this is crazy like what are you doing yeah i think it's complicated because then i think yeah society especially as a woman you kind of tie your self-worth to it and then you tie like your yeah your value to society to it and then if you bring in the athletic side it's like a lot to handle yeah um so yeah that's something i've i mean i still struggle with it it's so interesting there's this woman who is on instagram i forget her name but she's a beast and i mean that in the best way she's just a fucking tank she's so strong and i don't know what she does some sort of fitness trainer or something like that but she got on a scale to show that she's 180 pounds yeah she's like i'm 180 pounds all when she looks fantastic like there's no doubt about it she's an

amazing shape but she's a big gal but by getting on that scale and showing like hey like fuck your numbers yeah i was like that is that is great and very and saints sound so crazy to say especially as a man that it's brave of her to show her weight. Because men don't give a fuck. Like, if you're 180, if a man's 180 or 170 or 190, like, no. Unless you're trying to get big, you don't care. Or unless you're trying to lose weight. Like, no guy says, oh, no woman's going to like me. I'm, you know, 195 instead of 170.

Like, that's nonsense. No guy thinks like that. Like, a number. Like, you have to, like, no one wants, I don't want anybody to know my number. But for a woman, that's a big issue. like that like a number like you have to like no one want i don't want anybody to know my number but for a woman that's a big issue it's a big issue for sure and it's like i mean i don't weigh myself anymore because i'm just like right i don't i don't need to deal with that it's common for women that have had those issues yeah that just decide you know what i'm just going to be healthy yeah look good and not think about it yeah yeah and

that's one of the things that's been, there's a lot of things that I actually don't like about social media, but that's one thing that I've really appreciated is, like, women like you're talking about, like, sharing those things and being like, yeah, this is who I am. I think she gets enough likes. Yeah, that it's okay. Yeah.

She's hot. You know, she knows what she's doing. Like, she's kind of being brave but also yeah she's she gets enough compliments but you know she's like six foot one or something like that but she's a tank yeah um but i just i admired that she put that number out there she showed it and she was like look this is who i am yeah and for a lot of people that's important because there's probably people that are struggling with their own weight and they see her and they go, oh, okay, I'm going to take a little of that. I'm going to adopt a little bit of that attitude and just don't worry about the number.

Yeah. People get obsessed with stuff like that. It's so interesting because it's so just it's so sad and when you see people that are anorexic like there was a woman that was anorexic in my yoga class and um i vividly remember being in class you know laying down the mat and looking over and just go like oh no like being looking at this girl who was like a skeleton like what do you say that she was only she was young right she's probably in her 20s and i'm looking at her and i'm thinking shit and then i asked the yoga instructor who was my friend i said do you know her like what is her deal she's like yeah she's

you know she's struggling and she doesn't think she is and it's a real issue and i don't know what to do and like what you can't even say anything like what do you say yeah it's hard to i think it's hard to to talk about because it's not really talked about and it's not my place i don't know her yeah it's so personal it's super personal and i think it's it's a tricky subject for sure like i've had people come to me and be like what do i do like i have a friend who you know it seems like they're struggling and it's it's hard because going through it myself, it was whenever people brought it up, you get very defensive. And it's really easy to be like, well, I don't have a problem.

I'm fine. You know, like it's, you know, I'm doing this for my sport. This is what I need to do. This is how it needs to be. And so I think it's a struggle sort of like navigating how to deal with that, especially with, you know, friends and family or something like that. But I think, you know, I think just overall shifting the culture behind it is maybe a possible solution. When you're, um, when you're training for something big like this, do you alter your diet?

Do you have specific foods that you eat when you train or do you just always maintain a healthy diet? I'm pretty healthy. I also, um, because of, of my past like obsessiveness about food, I try to not worry about it too much. Um, also because I travel so much and I love food and I love sharing food and cooking food and eating food. It's just, um, I don't like, I don't necessarily worry too much about what i eat i'm very healthy eater i like everything um i i don't i try not to worry about it too much if i want to eat ice cream i eat ice cream good for you now when you go on a long climb like that do you

carb load before you do it do you carry a lot of food with you or yeah i carry a lot of food with me it's hard for me to eat on the wall it's hard for me to like because i'm i get nervous i get nervous you lose your appetite and all those things um and so i try to bring like simple foods with me on the wall um and like a mix of fat just a you know well balanced and easy i don't usually bring like meals like i actually brought a burrito on the wall the day that I was going to climb and I didn't eat any of it. So you didn't eat it all while you were on the wall or you just didn't eat the burrito? I didn't eat the burrito. I ate like cereal and nuts and beef jerky and candy because I love candy. But it's probably

good too to get some extra sugar yeah that exactly why yeah and replace the glycogen your muscles and so what is your diet like normally like what kind of foods do you eat when you say eat healthy do you yeah i i eat super healthy i love um like i i love like pancakes in the morning but like with protein and avocado toast and you know eggs whatever salad you're burning off an insane amount of calories doing that too sometimes it depends on you know it depends on what you're doing if you're free climbing all cap in a day then yes but if you're just going to the gym for an hour and a half or if you're just hanging on the hangboard like if you have a one like i see you have some sort of a fitness watch on what do you what are

you wearing oh i have this um it's, actually. Adrian got it for me. It's a Garmin. It's like a Phoenix Sapphire. Oh, cool. It's sweet looking. Thanks. Does that measure output, calories, heart rate? It's meant to, yeah.

It measures your heart rate. I use it for my running and stuff. I'd be so curious to see how many calories you burn on a 21-hour trip up the side of a mountain. I would imagine thousands. Thousands. But that's the thing. I don't wear it when I climb because you put your hands in the cracks.

Of course. And they get all stuck. Right. That's right. I should have thought of that. Yeah. But the amount, like, it's also like a mental thing too, right? Your mind must be burning a shit ton of calories too.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of mental fatigue that goes on we were talking the other day about uh chess masters and that when chess masters play in these tournaments they burn 6 000 calories a day really yeah they found out that these guys were losing incredible amounts of weight over a weekend like just thinking just thinking i could see that yeah i mean i guess it makes sense but your brain when you're calculating like all these different maneuvers and different places that your opponent can move his pieces you're just constantly and get all these rpms going even though you're sitting there your body's just burning off fuel yeah that makes a lot of sense actually so i'd imagine

some of that's going on too with you because you're physically climbing, but you're also thinking, you're calculating, you're trying to stay calm. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. Yeah. Yeah. Do you meditate? Do you have any mental exercises that you participate in? I visualize um so i'm one of those people like i can i can almost remember every move of like the golden gate so then i'll like go i'll like lay in bed at night and like go through all the moves over and over and over again almost to a fault you know like i can remember things really well and i'll go over sequences and i'll i'll lay down and i'll think about myself climbing like executing these sequences really perfectly so you know where all the handholds are where the footholds are you know what freaks me out

about that stuff it's like don't those break off sometimes yeah it it happens occasionally yep it depends on the type the type of rock like some rock is more prone to breaking than other rocks. The way you said that is way too casual. But it doesn't happen. Yeah, it happens occasionally. Occasionally, not very often. Yeah, and especially like the well-traveled routes. Yeah.

They don't have as much. What if some giant person was on it before you? Yeah, it's a possibility. And they put their heavy ass on that handhold. Yeah, sometimes I worry about that. I would imagine. Yeah. And then you go to grab it.'m like breaking my snap so i was looking at some of the things that alex was holding on to

when he was free soloing and i'm like what what what are you doing that's not holding your body right man yeah that's you know that that rock is pretty solid though and a lot of people like climb that route and it's it's been been there for, you know, forever. And when you're, when you're imagining it in your head, do you like sit yourself down and go through the whole, because I mean, the path takes 21 hours to do, so you can't really go through the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, I skip over some of the easy parts, but the hard parts I have like really ingrained in my brain, um, to the point where I think it's kind of hinders me sometimes because I'll go through all the,

I'll go through the moves and then I'll go through all the things that can go wrong. And then that kind of messes with me a little bit. Do you write it down? I have written it down too, yeah. You know, like draw the path? I draw it out. Only I can understand it, but I draw it out.

In sort of a Emily code? Yeah. It's like, I just like try to draw the holds and then I write where my feet go and where my hands go do you think of this career that you are currently involved in as a life journey is this going to be something that you do your whole life yes so you are a climber yes do you have any other ideas of things that you would like to do in this life or you just this is your career no matter what I mean I think at this point this is my career I'm pretty well established as a professional rock climber and I feel um yeah I'm not bored I

this is what I want I there i'm super excited for future opportunities for future objectives and goals and things like that and adrian and i have sort of like built this life together um did you meet him climbing i did i met him on uh i met him on mount everest oh yeah yeah both up there risking our lives yeah um yeah and he has a he has a guide he has a guiding business alongside his professional athlete career um and so yeah i feel like we've just built this we've built this life together and we're we're both super passionate and supportive of each other and um you know and i i want to have a fan i think we want to have a family someday it's really cool that you're involved with someone who has the same passion too like they'll understand you yeah it's it's super important and it it's important because you know both of us go away

on on separate trips sometimes and you know instead of the other person just like sitting at home kind of like worrying and stressing out you know we kind of understand what the other person is going through um it just it feels like we have a really like symbiotic relationship in that way because we really do understand what the other person does beyond i mean no other person is ever a person who doesn't climb at all i would imagine it'd be hard i think yeah well not impossible but my female friends that are comedians have the sort of same attitude about normies what they call normies like some normal person who doesn't do comedy like they're never gonna understand them right like like just that thing i have some female friends like my friend eliza schlesinger she has a husband who's

a chef and they were it works out great but a lot of them they'll try like regular people and they wind up dating comedians because like no one's gonna understand them we have the same joke in climbing I think it's like yeah people always say like oh I'd really like to not date a climber but then it's like well then you gotta like go do other things besides climbing what are you gonna do where are you gonna meet those people and then when you meet them what are you gonna do with them exactly right like where are you going to meet those people? And then when you meet them, what are you going to do with them? Exactly. Right? Like, where are you going to go? You're going to go out to eat, I guess. Hey, I'm going to go climb for 20 hours.

What are you doing today, Bob? Yeah. I thought we could hang out. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, come climb with me, bitch. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

The Mount Everest thing is an odd one, right? Because it seems to be sort of there's like a weird sort of bucket list thing that's also attached to like a social there's like a social metal to, oh, I climbed Everest.

Yeah. I have a very intense love-hate relationship with Mount Everest. It is like, I was very fortunate to be able to go on an expedition to climb Mount Everest and that's where I met Adrian and you know my life sort of changed directions after that um but that said like he goes back to Everest every single year so to guide or for his own personal projects or whatever that may be because he guides Everest every year. And so for me, it's like Everest just became like a part of my everyday life. Like it's always, you're always planning for the next expedition

or on the next expedition or thinking about the expedition. And so it's like it just kind of took over in a way for a few years there and I got really, really tired of it. How many times have you climbed Everest? I've only climbed it once adrian's climbed it eight times how many bodies did you see um that's a common question i get uh and it it's there are bodies on everest um i maybe saw like two or three um yeah that is one of the most wild things yeah it's about everest it is wild it's something that um i think people in that world are pretty accustomed to um but that's a crazy thing it is accustomed yeah and the thing about it your buddy leaves you're like he's killing he's

we lost him it's over he's right there he's right there no no it's over leave him you gotta go no no he's right there i could touch him like i'm gonna reach down yeah i'm touching his head he's gone man we gotta let him go he's breathing yeah and he's right there he's dead you gotta let him go like why what are you talking about there's more than a hundred bodies laying on mount everest yeah but there's an open debate whether to remove them or leave them be fucking leave them yeah that's kind of what uh yeah it's it's actually super super dangerous is the thing to remove bodies from whenever mount everest like you're putting other people in danger to get them down and what's the point and also i think there's something about like the guy the first guy to ever climb everest is still up, right? What's that guy's name?

Potentially. It's kind of like a great mystery. Oh, really? Yeah. Because he vanished? No, there's a... So the mystery of whether or not Mallory and Irvine summited Mount Everest is still like... It's still out there.

Oh, they might not have ever actually made it to the top? So, okay. So the first... The first... I don't want to mess this up. The first ascent of Mount Everest happened in like the 50s, I think. But there's this argument that maybe it happened way back in like the 1920s. Because there was an expedition to Everest.

George Mallory and Sandy Irvine like went out to go climb Mount Everest. And they essentially disappeared. And it's still a question as to whether or not they essentially disappeared. And it's still a question as to whether or not they summited. So this is someone who has to, is this people that have actually done it, Jamie? This is a list of people who are supposedly

George Mallory and Sandy Irvine set out to climb Mount Everest in 1924 and they essentially disappeared, but nobody's sure if they summited and died on the way down or if they died on the way up because if they summited and died on the way down then they're the first people to summit right and so people are still looking they actually found George Mallory's body in

the 90s and as the story goes he was meant to like leave a photo of his wife on the summit so he carried a photo in his possible ice axe injury following a fall body found in 1999 yikes so people are still looking for irvine because apparently he had a camera oh wow yeah so if you find the camera do you think the footage would be fucked i don't know that's another question see if there's a photo of maury's body jamie it's kind of it's kind of dark because you see his porcelain white frozen skin exposed by the sun and he's face down i believe i think that's the photo i'm thinking of and he's got these old timey clothes on too so it's like that's it that's the photo right there that is rough man that photo freaks me the fuck out

every time i look at it because that guy is rock solid frozen there like like a piece of stone and he will be there unless climate change melts his ass right yeah i mean that is fucking crazy right yeah i mean that is fucking crazy it's just it's look at his shoes have rotted off oh my god you can see his his the bones of his foot and everything yeah that is hardcore yeah it was a long time ago oh yeah i mean the equipment they had back then was like nothing i know what kind of clothes were they wearing just probably wool yeah exactly yeah it's um i think it's there's a tradition to leaving the bodies there that i think there's something about people that are doing it that know they're risking their life like that's an affirmation like hey there's a guy that didn't make it like yeah what you're doing

is crazy this is really hard so i think this is it's one of the rare moments in life where i think it's probably there's some beauty to leaving a dead body on the spot yeah yeah also yeah and also it just like makes sense it seems fitting fitting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also, everybody's doing that. I mean, there's not, other than the few douchebags that are just doing it for social cred, like there's a lot of people that are just, what they're doing is they've decided to test themselves in one of the most extreme ways possible. You're literally risking your life to reach the highest spot, or not the highest, but one of the highest spots on earth. It's not the highest, right? No, it reach the highest spot or not the highest but one of the highest spots on earth it's not the highest no it's the highest is everest the highest

yeah but is k2 the highest in terms of its relation to the ocean or sea level like no that's that's something different it's different k2 is the second highest but k2 is considered significantly more technical and dangerous than Everest. Actually, there's a lot of mountains that are considered more difficult and dangerous than Mount Everest. And when a guy decides like, hey, you know, I want to show off and be the man who climbs Mount Everest in my neighborhood. Do they have a requirement, like how much they have to train for something like that? Because I know of rich people that are not really climbers that have climbed everest yeah so everest is really it's it's a really interesting one um because it's a very it's everest has become

very commercialized um so there's a lot of companies that guide mount everest including adrian's company what's adrian's company's? His company is called Alpenglow Expeditions. Alpenglow? Alpenglow Expeditions. Okay. Do they have a website? Yes, they do. What is the website?

Alpenglohexpeditions.com. Okay. You can sign up. You can go anywhere in the world, basically, and go climb. Go climb with Adrian. Yeah. So there's a bunch of companies that guide Mount Everest from both sides. There it is.

There's the website. Are you backcountry ready? Yeah. We're getting ready for backcountry ski season. And the guiding on Mount Everest has become pretty lucrative. And there's guiding from the Chinese side and from the Nepal side. And both of those governments obviously benefit from that. and from the Nepal side.

And both of those governments obviously benefit from that. And so from the Nepal side, it's a little bit less. Essentially, it's just up to the companies who they take and who they don't take. So for Alpenglow, for instance, you do need previous requirements in order to climb Mount Everest. You have to have climbed another 8,000-meter peak and have gone through some rock climbing skills schools. But then other companies will just take anyone if you have the money and if you can pay for it. And that's where a lot of the issues on Mount Everest arise is because you have a lot of inexperienced people up there

and you have a lot of inexperienced guiding going on. And it's not regulated by the government or anything like that like a lot of mountains in in the world are regulated by the country that they're in like denali for example um and so the companies have to abide by a certain set of regulations but in um mount everest it's not really like that so it's a little bit of a free-for-all so that's why you hear about like the crowds and the lines lines and the dead bodies and the people dying. A lot of that is due to inexperience. Yeah, I can only imagine.

Yeah. But experienced people die too, right? Experienced people do die, but less so. For example, when Adrian goes to Everest, I do not worry about it. What? No. Not at all? Not even a little bit.

Wow. Because he uses oxygen. That's another thing, using oxygen versus not using oxygen. The one time I did worry about him, he climbed Everest without oxygen, which is infinitely more difficult and more dangerous. And so, yeah, experienced people do die up there, but less so. Wim Hof climbed Mount Everest with sandals on and shorts. It's the guy that goes in the breathing guide.

Yeah, Iceman. Yeah, I met him. We did a little clinic with him. He said, it's too easy. Yeah, he's a character. Oh, he's a freak. He's a real freak. Like a legitimate freak of nature.

And Will. Like he has the, does he have the world record for swimming under ice? He's got some crazy record for swimming under ice. And there he is. Yeah. I'm nervous. Fucking sandals on. With an ice pick.

No oxygen. In shorts. Wait, is that really? Wow, that's crazy. I've never seen that photo. Dude, he's a freak. Like, he's a legit freak. Yeah, he's another one that's got some sort of different wavelength of mental strength.

Well, it is mental strength, but it's also breathing. Yeah, the breathing thing. Breathing exercises. Breathing exercises are so strange because you think, well, I breathe. Everybody breathes. But you don't realize, here it is. Hoff has set the world record for the longest time in direct full-body contact with ice,

a total of 16 times, including 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 22 seconds on the 23rd of January, 1 hour, 44 minutes. This is a different record. He did something where he swam under ice. He swam in the ocean. They cut a hole in the ice, and he swam under ice he swam uh in the ocean um they cut a hole in the ice and he swam under it to another place yeah 57.5 meters he set the guinness world record for the farthest

swim under ice 57 fucking meters under ice jesus that's long yeah have you ever done like those ice bath things no i've done cryotherapy which is okay but it's easy it's three minutes yeah but those ice baths it takes your breath away it's really hard i don't even like cold showers no when i lived in boston there was a guy at my taekwondo gym his name was bob caffarella everybody was scared of him because he was like an advanced black belt and he would shower in the winter in boston in cold water so he'd get done training yeah it's really good for you, right? Yeah, it's really good for you, but I didn't think it was good for you.

I thought it was just a – for him it was just like a mental strength thing. He would just get in the water. He lived in the gym, like literally lived in the gym and taught out of the gym. He was super dedicated. But he would turn the cold water on and just get in that cold. Everybody was like, what are you doing? We're all scared of him. His mind was so strong. Because Boston is cold as shit. That water is barely not frozen.

And so he's in there with like 33 degree water, just having it pour all over his body after training. Yeah. That's pretty cool. I mean, I think there is something to learn there. Like the mind over matter thing. Yeah, and also learning that it's actually beneficial for you and that you really do get something out of it the norepinephrine gets jacked through the

roof when you get out of there you feel amazing yeah like cryotherapy like i had uh dr ronda patrick and i took her to a cryotherapy place in woodland hills back when we were in la and uh she had never done it before but she was aware of the hormetic effects. And so as a doctor, she was really interested in, as a clinical researcher, interested in what it felt like for her body. And she got out of there.

She was like, this is amazing. She starts rattling off all the things that are actually happening to your body. I'm like, wow, what a good person to bring to a cryotherapy place. Someone who actually understands the physiological benefits and is experiencing them and then relaying them understands the physiological benefits is experiencing them

and then relaying them to you as she's experiencing them wow yeah it's pretty intense have you done those cryotherapy places i've never been to one of those the real good ones i mean they're all good for you we have one here we actually have a tank here but it's one of these like below the neck though the really good ones is the whole body your whole like even your yes everything because the ones below what they're using is liquid nitrogen you can't breathe it in if you The really good ones is the whole body. Your whole, like even your head? Yes, everything. Because the ones below, what they're using is liquid nitrogen. You can't breathe it in. If you breathe it in, you'll black out.

And people have actually died doing that. Like where they've had no supervision and then set it up themselves. And the ones that they do at Cryo Healthcare in Woodland Hills and in LA, those are all freezing the air. in Woodland Hills and in LA, those are all freezing the air. So they're using the liquid nitrogen to freeze the air and get the air down to 250 degrees below zero. And then they pump this freezing cold air

in the room and you could breathe it in. So you wear a mask, a surgical mask you'd wear with COVID. You wear earmuffs. You wear mittens on your hands. And you have to wear underwear. And you wear socks and like rubber crocs that's actually a big one oh wow oh that's interesting i've never seen one that big is that

out here it may be there's apparently one out here like that that does uh full body does it feel like unbearably cold oh yeah oh yeah yeah you've done it yeah what does it feel it's fucking cold how many times have you done it? Three times maybe. Yeah. It's just you're listening. You can't wait for the song to end because you know you get the fuck out of there. Yeah.

I have certain songs that I listen to like that I know I'm going to be freezing my ass off. And you just do three minutes. Three minutes. Yeah. But I did. There's a guy who was working there that he was always trying to see how much I can endure because he's like, I think you can do more.

I'm like, let's see. Just a glutton for punishment sort of thing. So I got to three minutes and 40 seconds. That's the most I've ever done. It's not enjoyable. And I do it twice too. I do it and then I take like 10 minutes off for my body to recharge. And then I go back in again.

And supposedly there's a significant benefit in doing it two times. Huh. Yeah. Do you do it before training or after training? I do it after training, but you really should put a large buffer. There's a great benefit in your body being heated up and your body's natural healing and recovering. And there's a lot of debate rather as to how much time you should spend like post-workout before you get in an ice bath. And that same applies, that same thought process applies to cryotherapy.

Sauna, on the other hand, they think you should do right after training. Um, sauna on the other hand, they think you should do right after training. So if you go like, I'll, I'll train and then I'll get in a 185 degree sauna, like right away. So I'll turn the sauna on before I work out. And then when I'm done with working out, I go right into the sauna. And they think that that conveys an additional benefit that's similar to continuing a workout. So, um, increase in red blood cells and, and, and, and increase it almost, almost mimics a low level of blood doping. So you get an increased benefit in your cardiovascular, uh, your capability. And then you're also get the

heat shock proteins that reduce inflammation. So you feel really good so that you can do that right after training, but they don't recommend ice baths or cryo. They used to think you should do it right afterwards, and now they don't think so. They think you should wait a couple hours, especially strength training. Interesting. Yeah, but it's cold as fuck when you're 250 degrees below zero.

You can't believe how cold it is. You're like, what is this? It's colder than an ice bath. Oh, yeah but not i don't know if it's as uncomfortable yeah because the ice bath thing was really cold with wim hof we had to get in it and like sing um twinkle twinkle little star or something and then we were like allowed to get out that's hilarious did you do a seminar with him or something yeah it was like uh the north face has these they call them athlete summits and um so we all get together for a few days and do activities and like team building stuff and wim hof came to one of them and he like did the whole this whole

seminar and we had these kiddie pools with ice in them and we all had to get in and sing twinkle twinkle little star well there's a thing that you can get now that we're going to get here for the studio that is an ice bath, but you don't have to add ice to it. It's a machine, and the machine chills the water right to the point where it would freeze. And so you get to right about 33, 34 degrees,

and then you climb in this ridiculously cold water water and everybody says that that's a better uh option because then you have to go to a gas station and buy a bunch of bags of ice every time you do it yeah that makes sense because my friends that have like just a a tub when they just throw it like every time you do that you got to go to the gas station or wherever you get your ice from yeah buy a ton of ton of ice. Yeah. Do you do any kind of like, do you wear like Normatec boots or anything like that? Normatec boots. What are those?

Those are those things that like a lot of runners put on. The compression. Jamie, you just did it, right? It's pretty dope, right? Yeah. No, I've seen that. I don't do that. No.

Yeah. I have them. I need to use them. They sent them to me. I got to put them on. But Jamie, you really liked it, right? Yeah. How long did you wear it for?

It recommends to do, what is is it like 20 to 60 minutes i think i just did 30 just just to try it but and then i did another 45 minute session the next day did it did you feel better when you got out of them like what does it feel like i i just i love the feeling of it like a leg massaged if someone could massage my leg all day long i'd pay an ungodly amount of money probably for it all day long i think i have restless leg syndrome which may or may not be accurate or i've looked up how i have it or why what is that what is i don't know have you you know what that is yeah i've heard of it but i don't think i have it it's funny i just said reckless leg syndrome which is even more ridiculous but what it how it just the feeling of it bothers the shit it's really hard to explain that's why some people i think people don't think it's real because it's uh like i just

can't sit still i can't keep my legs still i feel like i have to kick them or still right now right now it's not bothering me but like sometimes at night if i'll be sitting to try to watch tv i can't keep my leg comfortable is that why you like running i thought running helped it which i the most recent time i did i ran, and it bothered me at night. And I was like, well, it doesn't fix it. But that's what it seems like it is. It's like you're not moving enough during the day. You have some buildup, and that's what it is.

But I don't think that's what it is, and there's got to be studies that people have looked into that. But either way. Have you ever tried bodyweight squats? Yep. It doesn't do it? There is not a thing I've found to fix this. And I've had it since I was like 12. And I told my dad, he's like, shut up, you don't have that.

Because there's like commercials that would pop up on TV for like some pills for it or something. And I'm like, dad, can we try the thing? And he's like, no, you're fine. You're a kid. Don't be an idiot. These things, the Norma Tech boots, I've seen them. Like, that's going to be the most amazing fix for that feeling. It was.

I mean, I'm not saying, like, I'm a doctor. Everyone should get them. But I love it. So after you did it, did it alleviate that feeling? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And every time I'm going to have it for now on, it's like time to put the boots on and lay down, whatever, and I'll be probably fine.

And what's dope is you can put the boots on and just watch TV, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's not that loud. The machine's not loud. It's battery-powered things. I thought I had to leave it in the wall. It's not. you can put the boots on and just watch TV, right? Mm-hmm. It's not that loud. The machine's not loud. It's battery-powered. I thought I had to leave it in the wall. It's not. You can take it anywhere.

Oh. Pretty cool. So you never mess with any of that? No. No. We'll get something sent to you. I mean, maybe I should. Yeah.

All right. We'll get something sent to you. But you use a lacrosse ball. I love that. I use a lacrosse ball. It's so easy. Those are phenomenal. Just travel with it.

Love them. It's awesome. And you can really dig in with those suckers. Yeah. especially if you've got a good hardwood floor. Yeah. Really lay on your back. Yeah. The one that gets me is like the hip flexor. You lay on that. Yeah. It's super painful. Flexibility has got to be very important. You said you were really flexible because you're a gymnast, right? right yeah and you don't have a routine where you like a daily stretch routine no no i i do stretch i i have like one of those yoga glow membership things and i'll what does that mean like i have a yoga glow is like a website that you go to and

it's like you can watch a video of like a yoga class basically and i'm really bad at going to yoga classes i actually don't like i'll go to the climbing gym but i don't like going to any other type of gym i don't know why i just like to do it alone yeah i'm like very much into doing it alone like i don't like to go lift weights in front of people i'm just like a little bit i guess shy about stuff like that so i just do it in my home. I have like weights and I have, I do yoga by myself in front of the screen. But I also don't like going to classes because they're just too long

and I don't think I have the attention span sometimes for a full class. So in order to get myself to do it, I'll log into this website and I'll be like, I'm going to do 15 minutes of hip stretches

and I'll just do that. And that's how I get myself to do it because otherwise I just and I'll just do that. And that's how I get myself to do it. Cause otherwise I just, I'm just not good at sticking with it. That's so crazy for a person who went all the way up a mountain in a day. Well, I can stick with certain things. Well, you seem very self-motivated obviously, if you're doing all your training yourself and making your routines yourself. So is that like a thing where you don't want other people motivating you or other people like guiding

the exercise because then you're not relying on intuition you're relying on someone to tell you what to do no i actually love i love training with other people and climbing with other people um especially other women and it's just so happens that like a lot of like they don't live in the same hometown as me and so this is different training with other people and being led in a class totally yeah yeah but you're weight lifting when you do it you just i mean i don't weight lift that much i do like opposition stuff what's that like you know like as a climber you're like constantly pulling all the time and so i'll do like like light weight lifting for like my shoulders to like opposition stuff i don't actually weight lift that much what does that mean though but like you know like i lift up

a dumbbell and just like lift them up like this eyes wise and t's oh yeah i do those yeah okay i do eyes wise and t's and i do them on the trx too what eyes wise and t's explain to people what you mean it's when you basically make a you, a Y, or a T with your arms. Yeah, so straight up like this. And then the Y and then the T. And it's supposed to help with strengthening your shoulders and the little stabilizer muscles. Because I just get nagging.

My shoulder constantly feels like it's on the verge of getting injured, and it never has. Well, it's kind of amazing. You think about what you're doing it's so much shoulder well you're always putting them in like really compromising positions it's like one of the a common injury for climbers is a shoulder injury what is uh like what what does a climber do to strengthen their shoulders a lot of band work band work i was just gonna say i so i travel with like in my climbing pack before i climb i'll like pull out the band and do like a bunch of band exercises and have you ever seen there's a there's these bands that are called uh crossover symmetry that's what it's called and it comes with uh like a workout like a chart that shows all the different various shoulder workouts

but they you you you do them so like if it's on a door or wall you like you would put one on one side of the doorway one on the other side so they cross this way and so you do your eyes wise and tease with that you do i do like these where i pull back and then lift up there's all these it's but it's really cool because it has a chart that comes with it that shows all the various exercises and what it targets and if you just make your way down it's specifically designed to strengthen shoulders that sounds that sounds cool there it is right there that's um i bought it from rogue symmetry but it's really cool too because it is right there. I bought it from Rogue. Well, it's over symmetry. But it's really cool, too, because it has a bunch of different tension bands.

Like, they go up to really, like, I mostly use, like, a 25-pound one, but they go up high, like 40, 50, and they're ridiculously stiff to move. But if you can, like, force yourself, that's how i have it set up i have it set it up on on a sorenix rack but if you can force yourself to go through those routines that you'll see on the chart just make your way down the whole it's a phenomenal shoulder workout that's pretty cool yeah yeah and that's i guess that's the hook for like a doorway. Yeah. So you can like travel with it. Yeah. It's really dope.

I love it. And it's, and it's simple. Like they have it all set up. So you just follow these routines and it shows you what part of your back and shoulders that it's targeting. And I've, I noticed a pretty significant alleviation of a shoulder instability and weakness from it. Yeah. That that's that's what i need yeah because i gotta imagine like that would when i was asking you what it's like

being 30 day shoulder fix there you go what i was asking about being a professional athlete i mean obviously i know a lot of professional athletes from working in the u UFC, but the instability of, or the, it's not instability, but the uncertainty of making a living with your own tissue and bone. I mean, this is your career is reliant upon you not being injured in a sport that's incredibly injury prone, right? Yeah, I think it is. And I think as I get older, I'm going to have to be a lot smarter about how I train.

And there is a lot of uncertainty. I remember when I was younger, in my head, that's why I was going to go be a lawyer. And then also, I was like, oh, well, once I decide to have a kid, then I might just be done you know but I think that the way that the job of professional athlete has sort of like morphed into so much more than just performing at your sport if that makes sense like you know if you're if you're really actively engaged in social media and if you're a good storyteller and if you're a good speaker, there's a lot of other avenues you can take.

For instance, like if you do get injured, it's also temporary, right? And then with climbing, there's a lot of, you know, it doesn't just stop at like the Olympics, for example. I can do what I'm doing now. I can go climb big mountains. There's a lot of other ways to be a climber. And so I think it elongates that career in some way, in addition to the fact that we can essentially become our own brand. That makes sense, right? So you can, you can do all kinds of things with that right do you have any aspirations to like expand your brain i hate that that term i know it's like kind of i love what you've done with your brain yeah it's like such an la thing it is you're right it totally is

but i don't know how else to say it no it's the best way to say it i just have like a glorified marketing job is what i is what i have well in a way but but it's also sort of yeah but you've earned that position it's not marketing it's like you're you've you've done things that are pretty extraordinary that's not yeah it's not as simple as just a glorified marketing job it's true it's true but I guess that's the imposter syndrome speaking. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I do. I have aspirations to like tell my story, I think, in an authentic way that people are inspired by and that people can relate to.

So are you thinking about writing a book or a documentary? I mean, I'd love to write a book someday. There is going to be a movie coming out about my whole like process on El Cap and sort of like my um my journey as a climber i guess in the spring who's putting that together my friend john glasberg who owns a company called louder than 11 uh he's the one who's been with me the whole time he filmed he's been filming me ever since i started climbing in yosemite and he was there the day that i the day that i did this and he was also the day you fell and got a concussion oh so he has all of it oh wow yeah he's got he's got everything from the beginning god that's an editing job huh yeah we actually Adrian and I he came to our house a few

a few weeks ago and like showed us just like the storyline and it's just like four hours of like my life leading up to that moment so they're definitely is that weird to you to see it was pretty weird because he got all this footage he like went to my parents house and got all this old footage from my dad you know like from the cassette tapes and um just uh i don't know what they call when they like digitize it all and uh yeah so i was watching like all this stuff from when i was a baby to like when i my dad built a climbing wall in my garage and surprised me with it which i completely forgot that even happened and he just like showed it to me and i was like oh my gosh this is it was

trippy for sure that's wild yeah so is he gonna do that and try to sell it to netflix or something along those lines i mean yeah i think that's i think that's like an idea at this point it's like his first documentary you know it's kind of like his his uh like his his baby at this at this point he's like pretty involved pretty invested in it so you have to see dirtbag then you have to watch that i can't believe you haven't watched it now that you now that i've i've seen like the cover of the film i've totally heard of it i know i know what you're talking about it's a sad story in a way in a lot of ways because the guys like the people that were around him sort of admired him at the same time pitied him it was like there was because he you know he would eat like old food and you know he never had any money yeah he's always just laying around and it's weird it's a it's a weird but

also again this dedication to this one singular obsession yeah you know and that's kind of like a um that's kind of how the history of climbing in yosemite began is with like the dirt bags the people who went there and all they did was that's all they wanted to do was climb and so they would just like go scrounge for food at the cafeteria and like sleep out in the forest and just go climbing and do whatever they could to climb that's such a weird thing yeah for the average person that wants stability in their life and wants security and wants a 401k plan and wants you know a mortgage and all all the things the the trappings of modern culture to see someone who's so completely rebellious that they literally want

to sleep in the forest and climb mountains yeah in a way i think you know that's what made them happy they like figured out what made them happy but you just got a big smile thinking about that yeah yeah because that's romantic to you right yeah i mean i'm thinking about it in terms of like how far climbing has come as well you know and i think a lot of those those people um from back in the day they were just like they saw themselves as like outcasts of society in a way and i think just as with everything everything changes right and like with the evolution of climbing like you now have people like me who are like making a living climbing and you know i do have a mortgage and i'm just like making it work you know and in a way i often wonder if those people like look at me and and sort of like feel like i've like sold out or like

i'm not like core you know if that makes sense oh because you have sponsors yeah because i've like i've made it work and i've like worked the system again imposter syndrome but i've like worked the system to to get to a point where i'm like actually making a living and and uh managing you know um and it's just an interesting it's an interesting thought there's like a little bit of like uh i don't know i feel a little bit sensitive to it like i'm like oh no why not like just stay i didn't sleep in the forest enough days didn't sleep though i didn't struggle eating fucking wood chips yeah yeah i i get it i would imagine like any industry it's filled with people who try to sort of malign and misrepresent who other people are. And they get jealous and they get petty.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's mostly like social media. Like the one thing I learned through all of this the last few weeks were a little bit of a whirlwind. Because just because this whole thing went a little bit bigger than I thought it would. I would imagine. So, yeah, I learned to, like, not ever log into Twitter. Twitter's, like, the worst one for some reason. Yeah, because it's all just opinions.

Yeah. At least with Instagram, it's, you know, photographs, and then people comment on the photographs. But it just seems to be the tone of Instagram seems to be markedly more positive. comment on the photographs but it just seems to be the the tone of instagram seems to be uh markedly more positive oh yeah that's what i've realized and that's mainly that's the one i use the most is instagram me too um but i logged into twitter for the first time in like three years or something and i was just like oh no i gotta get out yeah you can't read it it's just there's so

many people there that are just filled with hate. But at the same time, I guess it's a good way to get news, I suppose. Yes, it's a good way to get news. It's not a good way to read anything about you, though. No. The mentions, you gotta stay out of that. Don't click on that one. No.

I learned that one. There should be a way to make that invisible. Yeah. Make that little thing invisible. So you don't have to look at it. Yeah, don't even... It's a little like a haunted house like you open the door with all these crazy people that are just angry and there's a thing also where it's almost like having a box of rocks next to a bunch of windows yeah like people just want to throw a rock yeah

like fuck emily that bitch you know like there's people that just are like that yeah there's some people the and they're at work and they're bored or they're angry just want to be heard i think in a lot of ways well yeah there's a lot of that that's i mean it's what we all want in a way i guess yeah sort of seen and heard until you are yeah until you are and then you're like. And then you're like, okay. And then you're like, this is not what I wanted. I'm going to go hide. Well, that is the peril of trying to be in the public eye.

Yeah. Like you're making an attempt at garnering an enormous and unusual amount of attention. Yeah, for sure. Yeah's and it's it's scary honestly like it's almost scarier than like doing what i did it's or or climbing in a way because it's it i mean i'm just i'm like a sensitive person i think and so throughout all of this i've had to just learn to be like well a little bit tougher. As long as it doesn't change you, right? It's like that's the danger that you'd be more averse to risk or you would be somehow or another you would change. Like, you know, we were talking before the show about Hollywood.

about Hollywood, like moving out here has made me realize how tainted the entire city is by the desire that people have to be chosen to be on things, to be chosen to be on a television show or chosen to be in a movie. And so you become what people want you to be. You pretend to be what people are looking for. You shape your opinions and your look and your dress to what you think is going to be more likely to get you success in that world and that is a mind virus that infects the entire city that the problem with any kind of interaction with people on social media is that you can kind of change how you behave so that you like mitigate the amount of hate you get or you mitigate the amount of jealousy or mitigate the amount of pettiness and you can it can sort of it can fuck up your own journey you

know like your own there's there's it's pros and cons like don't get me wrong there's there's definitely some pros in reading criticism and because you can apply it to yourself and learn whether it's accurate and also realize like oh this is like a person that's like really sad and they're trying to hurt all these other people so you can sort of take pity on them and it gives you a better understanding of just human psychology in general. But it can also change the way you express yourself. Like you could be more guarded. For sure.

And that can be a problem too because then you're not as free. And ultimately, we all want to be free to express ourselves. We all want to be free to show who we really are and i think the more you intertwine who you are with other people's ideas and other people's expectations and sort of try to be everything for every person you kind of water who you are down yeah i would agree with that i mean i think yeah and the more people the more people have eyes on you the more they're gonna have their opinions about who you are or who there was also people misrepresenting what you did exactly which was yeah which was hard for me because so essentially let's explain yeah go ahead explain that so essentially uh one news article i think it was

like i don't know how it happened but essentially like the domino effect of like someone changed the wording of the of what i did um and said that i was the first woman to free climb el cap in a day which is a a gross misunderstanding because the first person to free climb el cap in a day was a woman and her name is lynn Hill and she did it in 1994 and in climbing that is like one of the most historic groundbreaking achievements in climbing's history like Lynn Hill is an absolute legend that everyone knows who she is and so you know in a way like I got accused of like erasing history by like claiming to be the first woman your own no you did nothing i did i didn't do anything i but i i did i i tried really hard to correct it um but for me it was it was a

little bit mortifying because i i i grew up in the same town as lynn like i was brought it i knew her like growing up and she was an absolute hero of mine and I knew of her achievement as like this was there's not that many sporting achievements that are that groundbreaking and that pioneering that are like owned by a woman like she did this before any human thought it was possible and it and for me like coming into climbing as a 10 year old I recognized that immediately and saw climbing as a space for women in a space where women could really excel and so I you know free climb managing to free climb El Cap in a day for me was personally very important but it also I just felt so much pride because like I got to kind of do something that Lynn did 26 years ago that's so rad and then all of these stories came out saying that I was the

first woman so it was just kind of me being like oh no like i didn't i didn't do that i i didn't i don't want it to be this way um and thankfully i like know her and i got to call her and be like i'm so sorry and she didn't really care at all obviously well it's just but we should be really clear it's nothing you said it's no i didn't the way the editors decided to phrase it yeah and i think it's just like um yeah it's just the way that media works sometimes like they basically change the heading of like that i was the first woman to free climb golden gate they just did a shitty job of researching it yeah and so you were the first woman to free climb golden gate in a day in a day which is a really difficult path yeah it's a difficult path um lynn free

climbed the nose which is a different route um and then free climbing el cap in a day is just in a day is the important part because it's it's an achievement that like i think only maybe like 25 people have done in history and only four women and it's something it's like the epitome of like big wall free climbing so the hate that you got was unfortunate and misguided like yeah it's just but people do that when someone achieves something remarkable and if there's any flaw in the way it's being represented they're like oh this girl she's a racing history she's a fraud she's a this she's a that but you didn't do anything all you did is just do what you did yeah you climbed the mountain yeah and to be clear like

i wasn't that bummed about it but i was sort of like okay this is how it goes like i'm getting a lot of attention and i'm gonna have to deal with a little bit of like negativity because that's just how the world works has that been cleared up of people kind of understanding that this wasn't you? I think people have cleared that up for sure. I mean, there's definitely a little bit of like, oh, you should have been more on top of things, but that's just people not understanding how this stuff works. You don't even know how many articles are being written about you.

That's the problem. There are so many articles. Viral, yeah. I put it up on my instagram and when i did i saw at least 10 different articles about it yeah i was trying to see like what was right and what was wrong and it's just one of those things where someone does something extraordinary and it becomes clickbait yeah exactly yeah so that was the big lesson about social media and hate for you.

Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't think it's really changed much. It's definitely made me feel I honestly like I feel like a little bit of responsibility in a way. Like I feel like I represent climbing to a broader audience right now, especially right now. And so like I want to do a good job of that and I want to present it in like an authentic and honest way um you know but at the same time like i'm pretty aware that there's always going to be haters and like that's just life that's how it goes yeah just don't engage don't read the comments don't don't don't read the comments and definitely don't respond to them yeah does north face or any of these other companies that you work with, do they have like social media coaching or anything?

Do they? Yeah. Yeah, we do some social media coaching, like at those athlete summits I was referring to. And, you know, now it's, but that was back in the day, like a few years ago. Now I just feel like everyone is so accustomed to social media. Everyone knows how to, like a few years ago. Now I just feel like everyone is so accustomed to social media. Everyone knows how to work it.

The one thing that they're starting to get into that I'm still not quite there yet, I feel like I'm a little old for it, is TikTok. Good. Good for you. My 12-year-old, you met her. She's a TikTok-ing fool. Yeah, the dancing. Stay away from that.

Yeah, they can't help themselves. They're like waiting in line at Starbucks, TikTok-ing. I still don't, I can't. It's just one too many things, I think. You don't need it. You don't need it. It's odd. But it's interesting.

You know, I think it's interesting when things become viral. I'm always fascinated by when something becomes, like some things are just so boring to me, they become viral. Yeah. I don't understand. And some things are just like the guy on the skateboard drinking cranberry juice, singing along to Fleetwood Mac.

Like so simple. So simple. But yet resonates with people and the guy becomes huge. Yeah. I mean, I think that was, I feel like that was just like a moment, he was,

it was a moment in time that like people were really looking for something positive. Yeah. It was like so lighthearted. People love that song. Yeah. were really looking for something positive. Yeah. It was so lighthearted. People love that song. Yeah. It just went over really well.

Yeah. Weird, right? Yeah. But that, to me, is so fascinating that of all the things that people are doing online all over the world, that this guy just chilling on a skateboard with a bottle of cranberry juice, that's it. I thought it was great. I did, too. I was like, oh, it just made me smile. Yeah. So you send it to your friend. Yeah. a skateboard with a bottle of cranberry juice that's it i thought it was great i did too i was

like oh it just made me smile yeah you know so you send it to your friend yeah it makes them smile yeah i mean i don't know how many millions of people saw it though it's crazy yeah that's fascinating to me like what what pops what catches people's attention what goes viral i think it's just like a combination of like where we are as a society like what we're kind of like craving and if someone like provides that with without knowing it right of course because it was like right at the elections and everyone was like ah the sky's falling yeah and i i feel like that happened a little bit with my story too like i had climbed the day after the election everyone was like that's so crazy you climbed the day after the election like what was

that like and i was like well i just didn't have to doom scroll all day like i didn't want to look at my phone what are you talking about like that's what everyone should have done that is the way to do it yeah everyone should have gone hiking just do something get out of the house get out of there yeah do people ask your opinions on politics and do you sort of like avoid answering those questions because there's no winner no it's like no like no matter you're gonna piss somebody off totally um yes yes they do and i do i do share my opinions about politics and i do try to do it in like a very diplomatic way that's not you know i i do have i have like i have a political stand on things

I care about the environment I care about climate change I'm a part of an organization called Protect Our Winters That's one of my causes That I care about And so I'm pretty vocal about that Especially because you're really into skiing Yeah I love skiing

There's no skiing if everything gets warm Exactly And that's sort of our avenue for talking to people you know like if you love the outdoors you should care about the environment and you know um and so people do i but i'm also i'm one of those people that i really and adrian and i talk about this all the time like we try to listen to all the different sides and we try to have i think that one of our problems is like being so divided and not being able to understand one another yeah and that's the part that worries

me the most is like the hatred that we all have for the other side and that's us versus them type of thing and the inability to understand each other is is hard or even want to understand each other is hard. Or even want to understand each other. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, to just label each other, the other side as the enemy no matter what. And the weird thing to me is I know people personally

that used to be like heavy duty left wing and they would argue like vehemently and passionately against the right wing. And then they switched over. And then they're arguing passionately against the left. And I'm like, you just might be a fucking complainer. Yeah, that's fair. There's good and bad in all people, in all ideas, and in all ide ideologies and in all political bends but what gets me is that

what you talked about that the climate and the environment could in any way be political that is so bizarre to me that we would have a division left or right that wouldn't or would appreciate the environment like god isn't that like part of being a fucking human living on a planet? Like, don't you want the rivers to be clean? How is that political? How is it political to not want the oceans to be filled with plastic? How is it political to not be concerned about the death of animals because of oil spills? Like, what is political about that?

That seems so nuts that seems like something like universally as a human we should say hey first take care of the earth this is the only one we have this is where we live let's abandon left and right and all this nonsense independent libertarian stop earth take care of earth yeah and i mean i think a lot of it obviously a lot of it has to do with money a lot of it has to do with where we get our energy from and who's in charge there and i guess i think one of the biggest things i think a lot of people don't appreciate the earth is is what i'm saying like i think a lot of people don't have the opportunity to go outside they definitely don't like you do and and and to appreciate the world in the same in the same way that i've been able to to do so or you have um

so i think you know one of the important things is to is to show people what like nature has to offer like what being outside has to offer, like, the outdoors, how much it can contribute to and benefit your life. And then once you show people that, then they'll start to care about it. Because if they don't get to experience it, then they go, they don't care about it. And I think there are a lot of people out there that are pretty isolated from the outdoor experience. You know, they live in inner cities. They don't have access to the outdoors in the same way that we do. They choose to just play video games in their, in their spare time, whatever that may be. I think, and that's one of my like goals in climbing,

I guess, is to make it more accessible to people. Let them experience it, experience what it does. to people let them experience it experience what it does and then they'll start to care about the places that are outdoors and they'll want to protect them that's a great desire to educate people i think it's titanically bizarre that we have a term that we call outdoors what do you mean it's strange that we have a thing like outdoors it's outdoors like indoors is normal yeah outdoors it's the earth yeah it's it's nature but in our our mind we're like oh outdoors like what do you mean out well no it's nature the earth like we're so accustomed to being inside a building yeah that we think of everything outside of buildings as outdoors yeah like it's a weird term yeah indoors should be what's bizarre yeah agreed and outdoors is seen as like this really extreme i think we need to kind of like

get away from like the idea that outdoors is like so extreme and it's for people who do what I do. Going outside is something that's super normal and we should all be doing it more. It should be. Yeah. You do do it a lot and it's amazing and it's great. But the expression outdoors is a weird expression. Yeah, I agree. It's just like it's assuming that everyone is constantly protected by

a house and a shelter yeah and when you go outside of the shelter like oh my goodness you're outdoors you're out there now that is the real life that is the real earth that's the real nature this is where everything else lives except us yeah and we're like going outdoors it's a strange oh i love the outdoors oh you love you mean you love nature no the outdoors nature you mean woods and wilderness that's what you mean well i like to call it outdoors it's a strange right it's a very strange expression you mentioned it it is weird it's one of those strange things you just get accustomed to and you forget how bizarre it is until someone brings it up. It's like one of those things, if you got high, you'd think about it and you're like, what?

Yeah. What a weird expression. It's a strange expression that's commonplace. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. That's actually nature. That's what everything's supposed to be living in.

Everything's supposed to be in the woods and the mountains and the wilderness and lakes and streams and the ocean. And we call it outdoors. I mean, because I think a lot of people do just spend their time inside. Yes. You know, they go from their home to their work. Maybe not even go to their work anymore. They're just at home. Yeah.

Well, and I think that's one of the reasons why people are so depressed. I don't think it's a natural environment for any biological creature and not for us. Even though we've created these environments and we've made them really cool and made some nice houses and great big TVs and cool shit to do inside the house, I don't think it resonates with our actual biology. I think our bodies have evolved over millions of years to be experiencing all sorts of things that are a part of the wilderness and nature. The sun and the wind and trees and visual, just these visual cues, seeing mountains. There's something about beautiful landscapes in nature that make you feel really good. landscapes in nature that make you feel really good right like if you if you're like on a trail and you you you crest a hill and you see mountains and a lake a beauty like in the sun the rays of

the sun are hitting the trees and it's all green and lush and you see birds flying around you like wow it makes it's like a drug. It hits you because your body evolved. Human beings evolved to experience these things. And when you see these beautiful, gorgeous, lush environments, generally speaking, it means like habitat where animals live and where you can find food and where there's going to be fresh, clean water. That's that lake. And all those things,

there's like these cues that are biologically embedded in our DNA. Yeah, agreed. That's why we should care about that stuff. Yes. But the fact that that's political is, we're nuts. We're a crazy species.

We're a crazy animal. Yeah. That that is, that's odd to go there to those places is rare. But that's how we evolved. we're supposed to be in those places I really firmly believe it's one of the reasons why people are so detached and they feel so disconnected

and so unhappy if you're in a fucking subway and you take the subway to a building and you sit in front of a cubicle staring at a screen and then you get in the subway and you head home and you sit in front of a cubicle staring at a screen and then you get in the subway and you head home and you're in another building you're never around trees you're never around a river you're never around eagles and you never see a deer walking by you never see those things like i just think your body's deprived of it the same way you would get scurvy if you don't get vitamin c yeah but so but so what do you what do you think the solution is get the fuck outside but what if

you just like live in an inner city like in a park yeah a park exactly i mean anything we need more spaces like that wim hof says we should literally hug trees yeah he's like you should hug a fucking tree man yeah that's what he's saying about he's like it's good for you you really you need it you really do like people that go to central park you could see like if you go to new york city when you see him in central park they're fucking relaxed like yeah they're like oh like you just sit there and there's trees and there's grass and is there's at least some life some actual natural life yeah yeah i think and also i think that's one of the things that's come out of covet a little bit i think people are actually

going outdoors more not in la not in la they won't even let you go to the fucking park they're crazy i mean i've noticed the climbing areas and the trails and everything where i live in tahoe it's so busy yeah because people have gotten out of the city and they're coming up and they're getting outside and they're going hiking and like just even friends who own like gear shops they say that they're actually doing really well because people are buying bikes and buying hiking shoes and getting outside because they're not in school they're not in work they're not working there's nothing else to do so that's maybe like one tiny little silver lining to everything.

Yeah. People are discovering it. Well, it's like you were saying that people do adapt. Like you're saying about people sleeping on the side of cliffs. People are very malleable. They do adapt. And it sucks that people are going through all this. But the good thing about it is that there are people that are becoming more active.

There are people. I mean, it's not everybody. And unfortunately, some people can't do this, but a lot of people are getting in shape. A lot of people are, even though they can't go to a gym, they've gone on YouTube and looked up body weight exercises and started a routine and lost weight and got fitter and started. I mean, there's a ton of yoga videos you can just get off YouTube. Yeah. They're free and you don't need any any money you just need a phone or an internet connection and you've got something to do and you know bike shops like i i know a bike shop that's

near me that was saying that they literally have a hard time keeping bikes in stock yeah that's what yeah that's what we're hearing in our town as well. That's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah. I think it's awesome. Yeah, more people out there doing stuff. Yeah. I think it's great. I hope that people also realize that they've been,

you know, for a lot of people, they've been dedicated themselves to something that can be taken away from them. And that to just recognize that this whole experience that we have on this planet is very temporary and so many people are chasing material things and chasing a position in the company and then the company goes away and then you realize like oh well this was all fragile and i thought it was permanent and it's it gives you an opportunity even though it sucks it does give you an opportunity to sort of readdress how you interface with life and change

what's important to you and change where your priorities are and change just maybe your path forward and recognize that, hey, this can happen again. And maybe I should be more prepared, but also maybe I should reassess what I'm doing with my life. Yeah. What's important to you, where your priorities are. Yeah. Do you anticipate doing this until you're like the dirtbag guy? Yeah. Until you can't climb anymore?

Yeah, I'm going to climb forever, I think. I'm going to climb forever. I'm going to ski forever. I'm going to, yeah, for sure. Beautiful. I love it. Listen, keep kicking ass. Thank you.

Thank you very much for being here thanks and uh let everybody know what your social media is so they can say nice things okay do i just say it right now yeah yeah just tell everybody i am emily a harrington at emily a harrington and that's uh on instagram it's on instagram yeah but if you just if you just searched it you'd find it on all the other ones too. Okay. Well, thank you,

Emily. I really enjoyed talking to you. It was a lot of fun. Thanks. All right. Bye everybody.