The Joe Rogan Experience - #1581 - J. Prince

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

J. Prince is the CEO of Rap-A-Lot Records, author of The Art & Science of Respect, and founder of The Loyalty Collection, a limited collection of fine wines.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day mr prince yeah thanks for being here brother i appreciate it hey it's a privilege and honor listen man you you command a tremendous amount of respect. The more people I talk to you, the more the respect grows. More people I talk about you, rather. It's a pleasure to meet you and a pleasure to be with you. Likewise, bro. Josh Dubin loves you, too. Oh, yeah, the feeling is mutual. Yeah, I love that dude. Yeah, me too. He's a good man. And the stuff that he does on the side, you know, outside of boxing and the stuff that he does on the side, outside of boxing, and the stuff that he does with the Innocence Project is really amazing. Yeah, he's an awesome friend to have as well.

Yeah, so we got a lot of shit here, man. We got your loyalty brand, you've got champagne, you've got wine, you've got, what is this? That's the Merlot. This is Merlot, and you have a cabernet as well and rosé i love a man that's involved in a lot of different things well i'm just trying to diversify my portfolio but that's always been the case with you right yeah pretty much so from the beginning yeah you are responsible for a tremendous amount of the music that I listen to, especially when I was a young man. Like, you put together the Ghetto Boys.

Willie D was on here, and he explained the whole story to us, that you're the one who talked him into being into the Ghetto Boys. Like, he was like, no, I want to be on my own. He did it as a favor to you. Yeah, that's a true story. That's a true story. That's a true story. I actually had got rid of the other set of ghetto boys because they felt like I was too deep and they couldn't relate to some of the subject matters I wanted them to write to. Like what kind of subject matter? Well, just real, real life situations. You know what I mean? Like real street things that I was living and they were spitting more Tonka Toy type of raps. You know, they was following the trend of the East Coast at the time.

And I realized that we're from the South and we just had different stories. Like what was the stories of the East Coast? Like what was the difference? Well, more commercial. You know, back then the East Coast was more commercial. This was a time when Run DMC, LL Cool J, you know, the hardcore rap hadn't hit the scene yet. So down south, we were considered rebellious at the time because we came with a different flavor. You know, we came with ghetto stories.

We came with ghetto stories. That's one of the reasons I named the group the Ghetto Boys, because I knew it was ghettos all around the world that had a voice, and we became their voice. Well, it was also, there were songs that, they were very unconventional, like, mine's playing tricks on me. Like, that's an unconventional song, and it shows, like, a vulnerability. Like, talking about the pressure of that life really fucking you up.

You know? Yeah. There was a lot of that in the Ghetto Boys. There was a lot of layers to it. If you looked at it on the surface, you would think just gangster rap, but there was a lot of thinking behind that music. Oh, most definitely definitely and that was part of what we done together we brainstormed together because we wanted to make sure we tapped into

you know everybody that didn't have a voice you know a lot of the things such as the mind playing trick song for example you know it was a lot of individuals that was like numb to their lifestyle or what would actually take place of inner city kids. And we were able to make that like real visual. It's fascinating to me all the different things that you've touched, you know, that you've gotten into. First of all, how did you get started in the rap game? Like what what got you into i got in i got in the rap game because of my brother his name was sir rap a lot so i actually named the company after him and i was encouraged to do it because you know he was a rapper at the

time you know i was hustling a different way and I didn't want my brother in the streets. So I'm like, you go in the studio, I'm going to support you in the rap world. But ultimately, my brother decided not to stay in the rap game and we got him like 23 years. Wow. Yeah. There's so many stories like that, right? Like dudes had one foot in and one foot out yeah yeah it's uh the rap game is inextricably tied to people that are are in that world right you can't

you can't fake it in the rap game it's one of the the rare genres of music that has so many people that are both in and out of that world. Yeah, a lot of people fake it to a certain extent because they tell stories of what they observed or what they saw. A lot of individuals hadn't actually lived the rap that they rap about, but they witnessed it from some perspective, so it's real. Yeah. Yeah. But it's maybe the only music genre that is so connected to crime. If you really stop and think about it, crime and poverty

is such an immense part of the rap world. Oh, yeah. No, it's definitely a real reflection of what goes on in the world we come from. Yeah, that's one of the most interesting things about it. Like when rap music became really popular, one of the things I was saying to Willie when Willie D was here, I was like, you are a part of a, you're a pioneer of a new art form that came about.

When the Ghetto Boys came about, which was like late 80s, is that what it was? Yes. When the Ghetto Boys emerged, we had only been looking at hip-hop for a decade, right? It had only been around for 10 years. I'm like, you were at the ground floor of what is now one of the biggest genres in all of music. And it was one of the first genres that showed that life and showed the life of these inner city hustlers that were trying to get out and trying to do better for themselves.

And in the case of the Ghetto Boys, show the pros and the cons and show the psychological effects of that life. No, a true story. And one of the things we've done, like on the East Coast and the West Coast, you know, they had access to a lot of power where the major record labels were concerned. Down in Houston, in the South period, we had no access to any of that kind of power. So we was left to, like, figure it out and do it on our own. So when I laid the foundation in Houston, it was, I basically learned from trial and error. And I had to figure it out, and I did. And we laid a foundation that's relevant today. So you got into it to help your brother,

and then how did you get a part of the Ghetto Boys? How did that get going? Well, I researched Houston inside out. I went to every area in Houston and kind of just tapped into all the artists. And I ran into Scarface one day. I stepped out of a club, and he was playing his music for a DJ by the name of Steve Funye. And I overheard it, and I was sold from what I overheard.

And I basically took Scarface with me that night. We went to breakfast, and I kind of convinced him that I had a group named the ghetto boys that I wanted him to be a part of and the same thing happened with Willie D my barber I think was telling me about Willie D we had the same barber in fifth ward and I got with him and basically uh told him the same story and then there was Bushwick and Bushwick you know was around before either of those guys were around but I just shared my vision with him it was important that they embrace my vision because I just got rid of a group of guys that wasn't feeling me they told me I was too deep so after that you know I just made it my priority to pick these guys up every day.

You know, I drove and picked them up every day to make sure they showed up in the studio. So whatever happened with the guys who told you you were too deep? Did they ever call you back and go, oh, we fucked up? Well, you know, I'm thankful for two of those guys because, you know, I tell this story all the time. These two guys were, I made a deal with them. If they go to school, I would support them in rap. And they went to school and they would go to my grandmother's house after school every day. And after my brother had left, I kind of lost interest in the music game. And she called me one day and she said, James, you need to keep your word. These guys

going to school, they come here every day practicing and, you know, I tell everybody that's how I got blessed beyond my expectation by keeping my word. Keeping your word is a theme that you discuss very often. Respect and keeping your word. True. How did you, I mean, how did this evolve for you as a man? Like when did this become of extreme importance in your life? I think it began with my mother, you know, my father. You know, I believe more is caught than taught. So I was observing the things of substance such as respect and things like that they put it in me so you know I tell everybody it's kind of

in my DNA to a certain extent I'd like that phrase more is caught than taught yeah that's true real true yeah I think about that around my own kids oh yeah they watching they observe yeah and if you slip like if I'm slipping my kids let me know oh yeah they let me know and you're like oh Jesus you're paying attention oh yeah you know you your other words your lips gonna have to match your action yes yeah yeah when children think you're a hypocrite that's a those are rough kids to raise because they don't have any respect for you true yeah so you you start out with you had willie d you had scarface you had bushwick bill and you these guys didn't necessarily know each other like willie knew willie knew bushwick from the clubs

but he didn't wasn't tight with them, right? Yeah, he didn't really even know them. I think they had a run-in, somewhat of a confrontation in the club, but they didn't really know each other other than Will, I think, drop-kicking Bushwick. That sounds like Willie. Yeah. And how difficult was it to get them together and get them to coordinate and get the music to go well?

You know, it was somewhat difficult because everybody was solo artists and everybody wanted to do their own thing. And my thing was to them, okay, let's unite our power. Let's unite our power together and we become a stronger force than being separate and you know let's do this my way and after this we'll do solos so i think that made sense to him well the way willie talks about you when willie was like i'm gonna be on my own but jay prince asked me to do it so i I said, all right. Like literally that. Like that's rare. When a guy like Willie D is like, okay, he respects you so much, he's willing to do that for you when he wanted to be a solo artist. Yeah, that's true.

And Scarface as well. But, you know, it always been a mutual respect where we all was concerned. And, you know, it made sense. Let's unite the power. You know, that helped. It was that mentality that opened the doors for the whole Houston. Like a lot of artists today try and, you know, separate their powers. They don't understand the unity of the power is what opened the door for the city.

How did you figure that out early on? open the door for the city. How did you figure that out early on? I just figured it out from being a football player, a baseball player, you know, a team player. You know, it's certain ingredients that just work, you know, together versus being separate. Unlike boxing, you know, boxing, you're in the ring by yourself. Right. Yeah. Well, that's another thing you've been involved in, too, which is amazing. You know, you've been involved with some of the greatest fighters of all time. Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward. I mean, how did you transfer from, well, you started off, you owned like a car dealership, right? Yeah.

Was that your first big business? Pretty much so. You know, I started off at a car dealership. All my life I had this love for cars and me too and my cousin you know by the name of Eric Blakely he used to put model cars together all on his dresser and I didn't have any model car I couldn't really afford model cars but I would look at those cars and be like oh i'm gonna have a car like that one day i'm gonna have a car like you know envision myself in them in cars and i end up purchasing every car

that i dreamt of being in did you have like a checklist yeah yeah yeah and so when you opened up this car dealership did you do that with that end goal in mind or did you just do it as a business i've done it as a business the other that was business the ownership was personal I've done it as a business because I had relationships with all the athletes with all the the D boys you know all the hustlers in the streets so I'm like I could make some money in the car salesman business. And my son's mother, Jazz, his mother, Carla, her father was a car dealer. So everything just kind of connected. And I'm like, okay.

And so did you use that as a springboard to get into the rap game? Yeah, most definitely. I became the number one car seller profit-wise on a street called Shepherd Drive in Houston, Texas in one year. You know what I mean? And I couldn't believe it. We all had the same accountant. And the accountant, you know, doing taxing, she came to me. She's like, you made the biggest profit out of everybody on the –

I said, well, how did you know that? She said, because I'm the accountant. I'm like, wow, are you serious? biggest profit out of everybody on i say well how did you know that how do you know that you say because i'm the accountant i'm like wow are you serious yeah you made the biggest profit so you know that was inspiring and this was just because of your relationships with all these other people yeah that they wanted to do business with you well i say relationships and my work ethic you know because i i got a relentless work ethic. So how do you get into boxing from there? You get into the rap game with, was the Ghetto Boys your first band?

Yeah, pretty much so. The Ghetto Boys were my first group. When boxing came along, boxing was my first love. You know, I got distracted by the music game because of, I mean, by boxing because of the music game. I always wanted to be a boxer, but it wasn't any gyms in Fifth Ward, you know, so I always said to myself, if I ever make it, I want to build a boxing gym, a recreation center in my hood. And that's what I'd done. And shortly after I'd done that, I had an opportunity to go in the gym and I started watching the amateurs. And I just kind of fell in love with boxing all over again,

which ultimately led me, I prayed for a champion. Everything I tried to accomplish in life, I always exercised prayer. It worked for me. So I prayed for a champion, and I set up a meeting with Mike Tyson in Las Vegas, and I went to Las Vegas. What year is this? This had to be 99 or 2000.

So, you know, I knew a friend that knew Mike, and Mike, you know, accepted the invitation because he was familiar with my movement where Rapalot was concerned. And I flew out there with my focus on Mike, and man, I walked into him sparring, and I was on cloud nine because I had never saw him in person sparring. It was always at a fight and I walked in he was throwing leather with another heavyweight and I was like starstruck and in the midst of watching this spawn floor Mayweather came in a gym and flawed you know I didn't know who he was he kept coming to me yo Jay yo Jay man I know I, I know about your group. You know, he was calling groups out.

I'm like, oh, okay, thanks, bro. Thanks, bro. I'm zeroing back in on Mike. Boom, boom, boom. Floor come over again. Yo, Jay, yo, Jay, yo, Jay, man, I know about this group here, man. And Jay, if you want to do something later on, you know, this is my number. I'll come pick you up.

I'm like, all right, brother. Okay. Focus on Mike. I don't know who Floor is, right? on you know this is my number i'll come pick you up i'm like all right brother okay focus on mike i don't know who floyd is right so afterwards you know me and mike go to his house to have a meeting that i came to have because my objective was to become his manager to be on his management team and he and i met for an hour he got his ex-wife on the phone and you know i was pretty much convinced i was on the team after the meeting and everything took place and uh you know hung with him all night the next day uh i tried to reach mike and i couldn't reach mike and i was left uh with flawed number and i

asked my friend i said who who number is this number right here he said oh that's floyd mayweather the 130 pound champion so bam a red light went off in my head because i prayed for a champion long story short me and floyd was in business together less than a week that's crazy his manager you didn't even know who he was i didn't know no idea that was when he was pretty boy floyd yeah that was before money Mayweather is that yeah he had a totally different style back then too he was much more aggressive went for the knockout more yeah well I think he used his legs a lot more than but if he saw the opportunity he definitely went in for the kill but you know his whole image was different yeah I came about. Well, he had a lot of hand problems, right? Like he's had several hand breaks.

Yeah. Well, I don't know about a break, but I know we eventually had to get a specialist to wrap his hands because, you know, he would hurt him a lot. Yeah. And do you think that affected his style? Is that like because he developed a very defensive style as he got older. I think that's a part of confidence. I think that's a part of evolving as a fighter. You know, in the beginning, I think Floyd used his legs much more.

But as he evolved with experience, he got comfortable, you know, with the defense. Shoulder roll and defense. Yeah. Greatest defense of all time. Oh, man. Of all time. Yeah, I agree. experience he got comfortable you know with shoulder roll and defense yeah greatest defense of all time oh man of all time yeah i agree i had my friend andrew schultz on here yesterday we were talking about it we're like he might have got hit hard four times in his career which is insane 50 you know and got tagged four times which is unthinkable no he's amazing but his work ethic is amazing you know the guy got a work you know

i've had opportunity to like witness a lot of fighters work ethic andre wards and floyd may well the work ethic is unlike any fight i ever saw yeah you don't get there without it exactly because there's so many talented people there's so many athletic people there's so many fierce dudes but to be a champion yeah you need everything you need gifts you need athletic gifts you need a sharp mind you need a passion for the technical aspects of the game but you gotta have that ethic if you don't have that work ethic you don't you never keep it going you you always fall short of your expectations and without naming any names we all know those champions that could have been great, but they got fat in between camps, and they just never trained as hard as they should have. I mean, some of the all-time greats suffered from it, like Roberto Duran after he beat Sugar Ray Leonard.

And Sugar Ray knew it, capitalizedized on it and forced a quick rematch when he knew that Duran was fat Duran is partying and drinking and yeah a guy like Floyd Mayweather never did that no never got out of shape man he would you know flawed was the type of fighter that would party with everybody but no drinking no. We sit back and watch and observe the whole movement. I remember watching a video of him leaving a club in Vegas. It showed him at the club, hanging out with everybody, leaving the club at 2 in the morning running. Oh, yeah.

We used to do that all the time. Yeah, regular pants on. We would watch fights together, and right after a fight, he was ready to run. Yo, Jay yo ain't nobody gonna catch me slipping the only way they can beat you is catch you out of shape they ain't gonna catch me slipping take off running down the strip it's amazing and having his brother or having uh having his uncle roger and having his father you, two world-class fighters, and having grown up seeing these guys, seeing his uncle. When Roger Mayweather was a champion, he had a vicious style.

He was, you know, his right hand was a thing of beauty. I mean, people forgot. Like, I was watching some Roger Mayweather fights the other day, and to have his father, a guy who, you guy who gave Sugar Ray Leonard a hell of a fight, there's so much talent, so much knowledge and understanding of boxing in that family, to grow up with that and to have that mindset like Floyd has where he's observing and watching everything. That dude just absorbed everything.

Oh, yeah. And not only watching, he had to spar with Roger. So you're talking about having to learn how to protect yourself against the best as a kid. So, you know, he had access to a lot of power and evidently, you know, there's no doubt about it. It benefited him in a major way. It's just amazing when you see that consistent formula of work ethic, that work ethic is, there's no getting around it. Everyone who gets great at everything and maintains that greatness has to have that work ethic. Yeah, yeah.

No, that's true. Even Michael Jordan explained, you know, how he exercised his work ethic. You know, I tell a lot of people your work ethic, you know, has to match your talent. Oh, Jamie brought over some glasses. Here we go. Oh, wow. Try some of this wine out, sir. Loyalty.

All right. All right. Are you a Merlot man or a Cabernet man? Well, I'm both of them. What do you prefer? It's up to you. Let's try some Cab. All right.

Which one is this? This Merlot. This Merlot. Where are you growing this stuff? In Paris, in France. Really? Yeah, I'm getting them good grapes. You got a relationship with people in Paris too?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, most definitely. I even have a heavyweight by the name of Tony Yoko, the 2016 gold medalist. It's from Paris. Really? Yeah, that's my fight as well. Is he training here in America or is he training in France both both yeah he come and go how does that work now with COVID is he well

stuck over there yeah as of now he's been over uh in uh in Paris for the last few months so I think he'll be back in February or March. Yeah. The boxing business is a crazy business because boxers are crazy. There's no way, you know, you got all the dedication and all the, you know, hard work and intelligence and ring IQ, but you also have crazy people.

Yeah, but it's no worse or no crazier than the music industry. Right, so you're prepared for it. Yeah, I've been prepared. And there are two cutthroat businesses. Cheers, sir. Health, wealth, and love. Health, wealth, and love. Yeah.

That's very good. Yeah. That's very good. Nice, smooth. Yeah, I'm a fan of wine. I don't know too much about it, but that's very good yeah that's very good nice smooth yeah i'm a fan of wine i don't know too much about it but that's very smooth yeah what part of france is this ground oh man you know i don't know exactly the part but it's in uh it's in france and i went through a lot of grapes to come up with this blend you know it's uh I went through a lot of grapes to come up with this blend, you know.

So you're personally involved in selecting everything as well? Oh, yeah. Do you know a lot about wine? Do you have a background in wine, or do you just know what you like? Well, let me tell you the story of how I got in the wine business. You're not from Texas, but those that are from Texas remember this doctor, definitely in Houston, by the name of Dr. Red Duke. He was a surgeon in Houston. And I heard him speak about the health benefits where wine was concerned one day. And, you know, he was talking about the, how wine is good for your heart, your blood, antioxidants, you know, all of these things.

And I became, you know, kind of sold where wine was concerned. And during my winding down time, I started sipping a little bit. And ultimately, that led me to Napa Valley, where I was able to go to quite a few vineyards. I was actually negotiating on purchasing a vineyard. So I got an opportunity to view things from the business perspective and that kind of led me to where i'm at today that's a serious baller move when you own a vineyard yeah you know that's why i don't trust the governor california he owns a vineyard like get the fuck out of here bro he's supposed to be serving the people you're

not supposed to be balling yeah when you own a vineyard, you're a baller. That's a baller move. You're out there sipping, cheers with people. Someone's bringing over hors d'oeuvres. Right. You can only imagine they mixing it up a little bit. Yeah, there's definitely mixing up. That's some gangster shit.

You're owning a vineyard. You can't trust a politician with a vineyard. Right? I agree. Yeah. you know that's that's you can't trust a politician with a vineyard right i agree yeah i don't trust him with our vineyard so exactly but with a vineyard yeah something about owning a vineyard yeah that's icing on the cake it's a it's a status symbol it's a beautiful status symbol you know um my good friend maynard he's a lead singer of the band tool yeah he's got caduceus vineyards he owns his own vineyard in arizona you know and there's something about the creation of wine it's a different kind of artistic pursuit that it's art that your your taste buds take in and appreciate yeah you know yeah i've developed a deep respect for wine i don't know much about

it really unfortunately i don't have a lot of time to really learn about wine but yeah i've developed a deep respect for one i don't know much about it really unfortunately i don't have a lot of time to really learn about wine but yeah i know good wine and this is very good thank you this is delicious toast to loyalty well you just said a mouthful though the taste buds is the key west yeah yeah yeah it's an art form for your taste when you get a good glass of wine art form for your taste when you get a good glass of wine and you take that in you're like oh yeah that's good that's smooth this is this is like a great wine with a steak yeah you know exactly yeah exactly so when you met floyd he was the 130 pound champion and did you just immediately started working with him um yeah but it was a process and it wasn't easy because I came into a situation where his father and his uncle was his manager and I wasn't embraced with love. Because they kind of felt like I was imposing on the situation.

He had a $12 million contract on the table at the time I came in that everybody wanted him to sign. And Floyd called the contract a slave contract before I came, but they blamed me for him calling the contract a slave contract. What was the provisions in the contract that he didn't like? Well, he just thought $12 million wasn't enough. You know what I mean? And, you know, ultimately I had to go in and do some damage control.

And one of the things that I told him when I met him, I said, if I can't make this better, I don't want to eat off of your $12 million that had already been offered to you. So I had an opportunity to have a meeting with Seth Abraham, you know, at the time was the president of HBO. And I pretty much just asked the guy, you know, how could we get around this 12 million dollar contract how can i make this a bigger contract and at the time he told me about the fighter named diego corrales he's like you know if you all would be willing to fight diego corrales then this could jump up to 35 million or so if y'all was able to beat Diego Corrales. And, you know, that was interesting to me.

You know, I went home and done some due diligence on Diego Corrales at the time. And at that particular time, Diego had jumped on his ex-wife and kind of beat her up. He had charges, you know, kind of done her pretty bad, bad to the extent where he was facing jail time. And I saw that, and I went back to Floyd. I said, Floyd, it's the perfect time to fight Diego Corrales. I said, I even have a marketing tool. We can whoop him for every battered woman in the United States of America.

So he heard me out but he wasn't embracing it no no no no no no no Jay and he time to do that right now no no no no he didn't want to fight Diego because Diego skill set well you know I don't want to say flaw was scared but at the time you know everybody thought Diego could beat Floyd he was like 30 and over 29 knockouts Diego was a wild man yeah Diego was he was a knockout artist and he just felt like it wasn't the time I talked to him for like four hours and couldn't convince him so I decided to go home and I went home about six in the morning and I woke up about 11 in the morning with a message from him yo yo Jay I hired you you know as my manager and uh if you think I should fight him I'll fight him so it was

then where you know I was celebrating because I'm like whoa we finna get Diego so I called the people at HBO and they told me they didn't have a date they wouldn't have a date to uh next year or something like that and it was then I decided to use uh some of my record label uh talents you know I had to build my record company without having video without having radio you know just pulling publicity stunts so I told Florida say here's what we're going to do. Lennox Lewis and David Tour was fighting at the Mandalay Bay. I said, during the press conference, I'm hearing Diego's supposed to come to that fight. I said, during the press conference, we're going to surround Diego.

My head of the home is to surround Diego. And I want you to come and just push him, and we're going to stop my head of the home is to surround Diego and I want you to come and just push him and and we're gonna stop the fight right but it ain't gonna it ain't gonna be no free fight but you go and get your push in on him we're gonna stop it we're gonna steal the show that was my objective and um that came to fruition you know we went and stole a show at the press conference that was saturday night sunday we was on the front page of the uh las vegas time and you know monday or tuesday i called them and they said oh we got a date for you i love that you're telling me this because i always wonder i always wonder when i see those kind of altercations how many of those are coordinated

by a wise man who understands publicity? Quite a few, I would say. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Why wouldn't you? You know, it's marketing. Which, you know, brings me to one thing. One of the things that's going on right now with Floyd is he's going to fight Logan Paul, who's this YouTube star.

Which is, it's so crazy that a dude who is a YouTube star, who's a good athlete, he's had a couple of boxing matches and was a very good wrestler, he's going to box the greatest boxer, arguably, of all time. I mean, if you want to look at accomplishments, Floyd Mayweather is in the argument as the greatest of all time. Boxing is a sport of being hit, hitting rather and not being hit exactly floyd is the very best ever at that no one's ever stopped him no one's ever even come close i mean it's amazing what he's done is amazing and a lot of people say oh he waited until manny pacquiao was past his prime

before he fought him. Well, that's a smart thing to do if you want to stay 50-0. I mean, if you look at his career, he fought all the great fighters. But he did it on his terms when he fought Canelo. Made Canelo get down, what was it, like 152, I think it was. Yeah. Like, every move he does is perfectly calculated. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you have to, you know, you just can't make excuses where flawed talent is concerned.

He wanted the best. Undeniable. Undeniable. No one, whatever your opinion of him is, undeniable how talented he is. Undeniable. I mean, he went in and demolished Diego Corrales. Yes. But I fell in love with diego corrales heart afterwards so diego ended up going to jail and doing like a a year or two prison time and i went in prison and signed diego corrales you know i signed him

in jail really yeah yeah i got the blessings from florida i said florida you have a problem with me working with Diego? He's like, no, no, he good. Nobody, just because I done him like that don't mean nobody else could do him like that. What was that one wild fight he had where he came close to getting stopped and he stopped the dude? Oh, yeah. It was one of the fights that made him. Oh, man.

Do you remember who his opponent was? That was, oh, boy. That's the guy that they thought beat flawed you know everybody say he beat flawed the first fight flawed fought him castillo yes yeah castillo you know they claim castillo beat flawed the first time and flawed fought him again and demolished him yeah but that fight was that was the best fight i ever saw in my life with him and die what a fight crazy crazy and I tell you what was back yeah I tell you what was really strange about that so a couple years after that on the same day Diego got killed almost around the same time you know right on the next street

behind my Las Vegas place and I was called and you know his right on the next street behind my Las Vegas place. And I was called, and, you know, his wife was like, somebody say Diego had a motorcycle accident. So I rushed on Fort Apache, and there Diego was on the same exact day, you know, of his biggest victory a couple years later the same day. Yeah. That was a bummer when he died because there's a lot of those dudes like that that are just wild dudes and you can't stop them from being wild yeah to have a career like he had to make the kind of money that he had and still be just going crazy

on motorcycles like that what makes them great sometimes does them in is that heart, that courage, and the willingness to face fear. Yeah. And some guys get addicted to that. They just wah, wah. They get addicted to that feeling of just, you know it's dangerous. You know you shouldn't be doing it. And you just, you can't help yourself. You gun it.

Yeah. Yeah, and there's something about the motorcycles that make you want to gun them. Oh, they're so thrilling. They're too thrilling. The high speed, you know. I have to watch myself on them bikes. I'm like, man. Do you still ride?

Not as much as I used to, but I like the Harleys. Yeah, that's a better move. Yeah. Slower, more control. That's what I was trying to get Diego on, but he told me that's an old man bike. Well, he's got a point. get diego on but he told me that's old man bike well it's got a point i came real close to getting my motorcycle license but when i was uh i was going through the whole thing and you know going through classes and three people i know one person

saw someone get hit and two people i know crashed one one crash and really fucked up his shoulder another one got hit by a car. Some old man ran a light and T-boned him and snapped his leg in half. And I was like, this is just too much. Yeah, I kind of witnessed like three or four accidents in one year that made me decide to slow down on the ride. I was passing on the highway and I saw this dude laying down. They had a blanket over him. And his bike has crashed and he's laying down down. They had a blanket over him. Yeah.

And his bike has crashed and he's laying down. He's got a blanket over him, but you can see like his chest, his head, he's still alive. Yeah. And he was just screaming in agony. And I don't know what the fuck was going on under the blanket, but they wanted to cover it. Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah.

It's a terrible way to go. But when you're on it, it just seems like so much fun. Yeah. It's a high yeah you know it's a high of freedom and you know the wind and everything you know it's like flying like a bird yeah you know i just went there for a minute i know it could so many fighters love them you know and again it's the thing it's like what attracts them to fighting in the first place is their I know. So many fighters love him. And again, it's the thing. It's like what attracts them to fighting in the first place is they're the type of people that face fear. They enjoy overcoming fear.

They enjoy the thrill. Floyd never fucked with bikes, though, did he? No. Too smart. Yeah. No, he never did. Too smart. You know, the Diego Corrales fight with Floyd was a defining fight. But, you know, one of the things that when people point to Floyd, I say, look at the Maidana fights.

Because Maidana gave him some difficulty in the first fight. But in the second fight, Floyd boxed his ears off. Yeah. Floyd put on a clinic in that second fight. And that shows you a guy who went back looked at the fight didn't enjoy his performance it was too close and decided i'm gonna fuck this dude up in this rematch and i'm gonna do everything right this time if you observe floyd real closely normally the second half of all his fights he cracked the code well fighter

is concerned no no matter how close it was yep a second half he cracks that code and going into that second fight he gonna figure it out same way andre ward yep you know he was the same way like kovalev right exactly the first fight's close the second fight's what wasn't close at all no the crazy thing about andre ward i have i've had andre ward on the podcast before is that and Andre fought most of his career with one arm. Yeah. And people didn't even know. They had no idea.

He literally didn't have a right arm. That's true. He fucked everybody up with a left hand. It's true. It's crazy. It's true. Guys like Karl Frotch and even Kovalev in the first fight. Yeah.

I mean, it's amazing what he accomplished. Yeah. Big ups to Andre Ward. He just got. He's amazing. They just injected him to the Hall of Fame. Did they? Yeah. He's a unique human being.

Very unique. Because when Canelo knocked out Kovalev, there was a lot of talk. Andre is still young. He's still in his prime as a human being. He could absolutely fight right now if he wanted to. But he decided that he would be better serving boxing as a commentator and as a man with perfect faculties intact. Retiring undefeated as a champion, two-division champion,

gold medalist in the Olympics. Perfect. No problems. When you look at him and when you hear him talk, there's no cognitive decline. He's smooth. He's articulate. He's an outstanding gentleman. Like, as a human being, he's a very religious, devoutly religious person.

Yeah. He's a stunning human being, man. He is. He really is. No, in real life. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm talking about from a close-up. Yeah. you know he he the same way inside and outside the ring he actually you know it was

a lot of millions he walked away from a lot of millions a lot of me because he was the guy that made the most sense if canelo is going to have a light heavyweight super fight he's not really a light heavyweight everybody knows that he stepped up and fought Kovalev, but Kovalev was kind of on the decline, and he fucked him up and stopped him. But if you wanted to have a guy who's like the perfect foil for Canelo at light heavyweight, it's Andre Ward. Most definitely.

It's Andre Ward. I mean, that would have been amazing. If they were in their prime, my God, what a fight that would have been. Yeah. My God. Yeah. Who do you like in that fight? that would have been. My God. Yeah.

Who do you like in that fight? I would never bet against Andre Ward. I just wouldn't bet against him. I just wouldn't bet against him. Yeah. I don't know if I bet against Canelo right now, though. He's a beast. Listen, I would watch that fight like this.

Yeah. No, he's a beast. Canelo is a different human being post floyd if you watch the danny jacobs fight danny jacobs is throwing missiles at his head and he's just standing in there moving and yeah and beautiful head movement beautiful which you know he had a little bit of that early in his career but post floyd yeah his defense just rose considerably. Once he realized, like, that dude was in front of me, and I couldn't do shit. You know? Like, that's that rub that you get when you fight a real world champ. Not a world champion, but a greatest ever world champion.

And you realize, like, wow, there's fucking levels to this thing. Make you better. 100%. 100%. And it definitely made Canelo better. Indeed. I mean, Canelo was going to get better no matter what. But there's no question that post-Floyd, it's a different Canelo.

Yeah. No, I just hope Floyd leave him alone and don't fight him at this point. He's huge now. He's so big. He's so big. Yeah, Floyd's smart. He would never do that. I mean, he's fighting at 175, you know?

I think this weekend's fight is 168 though correct i think so yeah yeah the uh the gentleman is fighting callum is like he's like six four pull up the video of uh canelo alvarez there's a face-off between canelo alvarez and uh this weekend's uh opponent it's crazy how tall this dude is. Like, it's an interesting fight just based on just the physical aspects of it. Yeah. That guy's a quality fighter, too. Yes. It's not going to be easy for him, I don't believe.

No. And he's a dude that's a natural 168. And you look at Canelo having started his career as a junior middleweight. Look at this. Look at that. Wow. Look at Callum Smith. Look at how big he is.

That's crazy. If he knew how to use that reach properly, it can be a long night. Well, Canelo has that nasty left hook. That left hook to the body in tightness. Yeah. That's a big gentleman. Wow. Yeah.

And he's a very, very good fighter. But, you know, that's what I admire about Canelo is that's what he's looking to fight. He's looking to fight the guys like Danny Jacobs, the guys like Callum Smith, the guys like, you know, Sergey Kovalev. I mean, he's looking to fight the best fights that are available for him right now that's true you know he's he's something special right now but i think he became something special like really a lot of it was because of that floyd fight because floyd shut him down yeah if you look at canelo in every other fight it's he's a wrecking machine and that fight he looked like a guy was just puzzled yeah he was puzzled yeah confused he didn't know

what to do it's amazing yeah i love that i love seeing when when people achieve a level of proficiency that's so powerful that a world champion is standing in front of them go fuck man i got a lot to learn yeah yeah true statement there's levels to it, man. And I wouldn't as flawed do that over and over to fighters that thought they were the best. And even in sparring, they're like, whoa. Do you think it's crazy now that he's fighting YouTube stars and shit, though? I mean, he's making a lot of money. Yeah. It's brilliant in that regard.

Like the Conor McGregor fight. Yeah. I mean, I actually kind of like him not, not you know fighting a lot of these young guys you know what i mean i think it's good business moves and you know he's older than this guy and he's smaller a lot smaller that dude's big i think the scale balance off somewhat you know the guy younger and he's bigger so he's huge yeah this dude's a 200 pound guy my heavyweight it's crazy yeah the fact that he's doing this is crazy and the fact that he's doing this in japan japan doesn't give a fuck did you see that fight that he fought with uh tension nazukawa yeah yeah that was ridiculous that guy

tension is a badass kickboxer like a really good kickboxer but he's 126 pounds he's a tiny little dude and the the japanese people they love freak shows they put on some wild during the mixed martial arts heyday of japan they put on some wild fights man they had like 300 pound dudes fight 100 pound dudes they didn't give a fuck they're like let's let's make some crazy shit happen anything go they really did they had this guy uh minotaur nogerara who was uh at the time the heavyweight champion of of pride and he was like a regular size heavyweight like maybe 240 240 pounds and he fought bob sap who was 375 pounds with abs just chock full of mexican supplements just smashing people and they they had this crazy freak fight and they did a lot of that in Japan Japan enjoys watching

these people fight that are mismatched size wise they enjoy that for whatever reason so they enjoyed seeing tension go over there and and fight Floyd in a boxing match yeah where he's not really a boxer he's a kickboxer and you know to fight the best ever right when he's 20 30 pounds heavier than you it's just ridiculous well we saw what happened yeah well Floyd looked like he didn't even train for that fight no you didn't have to you know the guy is a genius at what he does and he knew just what to do just let me walk him down. Well, it was funny when you see him smiling.

When you see him smiling at him and walking forward, it's like an execution. Yeah. Well, Floyd, he's brilliant at that, like maximizing his profits in his later years. I mean, that fight was an exhibition, but conor mcgregor fight was a legitimate fight yeah which is crazy a guy with zero professional fights ever steps in there it got against the guy was 49 and 0 at the time yeah they say show me the dollar well floyd is so good at marketing he's just so smart at that yeah did he learn a lot of that from you I think we taught one another a lot of things you know what I mean but he definitely took things to a whole different

level with what he done yeah yeah um but what happened with you guys you guys have fallen out right well I think it was more so the group of guys he was with and some of my guys, you know. And I wrote about it in my book, The Art and Science of Respect. Yeah, I wrote about that story. Basically, you know, they had convinced him to not want to pay me after all the creative work that was put in and you know i uh was able to uh change his mind that's what i heard but you guys are still yeah no we're cool that's the homie you know it never was about he and i you know we just uh uh had to agree to do the right thing and we was able to do that and hey that's the homie it's unfortunate that you know he

didn't recognize your talents and have you stay involved with them you know well you know I his people didn't yeah I should say you know I I enjoyed the journey I was with him for four years and I helped lay the foundation that he was able to build off of. And, you know, I'm grateful for I'm grateful for that because that ignited my whole career where boxing was concerned. So, you know, life goes on. Yeah. Yeah. Who you work with Shakur Stevensonvenson right now oh yeah yeah i have shakur stevenson oh man i got how many fighters do you have in your roster currently i think like like 14 fighters i have and i love that this is a passion project for you that you this is not

like your main source of income by any means this is just something you truly enjoy yeah no i really love this i actually call steven tony yoka jared anderson tucker jihad tucker julian rodriguez mazi duke reagan troy isley so all levels oh man all levels best man yeah i've what i've done and what I'm doing right now is actually making a move to take over. You know, I'm predicting in 2021, 22, I should have a champion at every weight. Now, do you have interest in management and promotion? Do you have interest in putting on shows? No, no. You know, in boxing, you can only choose one or the other. You can't participate in both worlds

so i'm a manager i negotiate against the promoters i protect the fighters that's the big issue with fighters why i was going to get to that is that fighters seem to have more conflicts like the shit that happened with bob arum and terrence crawford that that turned my stomach. When you got a guy as good as Terrence Crawford, who legitimately could be one of the all-time greats, might be already, one of the rare, like, a switch hitter who's just as good orthodox as he is at Southpaw, figures everybody out, beats everybody, and then he talks crazy shit like about losing money promoting his fights like what the fuck are you talking about maybe you're doing a

job promoting him you got in your roster one of the greatest of all time a real stone cold killer. Yeah. Terrence Crawford is a stone cold killer. Oh, man. And you should be singing his praises. Knocked out Kell Brook with a jab. Yeah. I mean, it was basically a jab. Yeah, it was a jab. Yeah.

I mean, it's crazy. I mean, that's what started the party and then beat the fuck out of him afterwards. But he's something really unique. Yeah. No, Terrence is one of a kind you know no doubt about it he's a special fighter but for bob arum to say that i was like it turned my stomach i was like what are you doing how can you say that like keep that if you're losing all that money like keep first of all keep that shit to yourself but what you should be saying is, how good is Terrence Crawford? You should be letting everybody know. You should be shouting it from the mountaintops.

Look how good this guy is. We can't get this guy fights because people are terrified of him because of this. Because he knocks out Kell Brook with a jab. Because he fucks everybody up. He figures people out. He figures you out orthodox. Then he switches up southpaw on you and starts beating the brakes off you. He's something really unique.

I'm a giant Terrence Crawford fan. Me too. Love that dude. I can't wait to see him fight Errol Spence. Woo! Is that going to be interesting? Yeah. Especially after Spence, his recent victory over Danny Garcia?

Yeah. Yeah. Spence is something special too. I thought when that car accident happened, I thought, oh my God. Oh my Yeah. Yeah. Spence is something special, too. I thought when that car accident happened, I thought, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah. What's crazy is he survived

because he didn't have his fucking seatbelt on. That's what's crazy. That's real crazy. I think he, well, let's go further than that. He survived because the creator protected him. Something happened. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, if you want to believe the creator protected him. Something happened. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, if you want to believe the creator's protecting anyone,

he protected Earl Spence that day. Yeah, most definitely. Because that was, you know, he's one of the fighters that's actually sponsored by my company, Ana, as well. Okay. We sponsored Earl, like, early on, like, years ago. Okay. He's a special fighter, and he hasn't had the right dance partner

to show his true greatness you know he's he's he's had great fighters you know to to establish the fact like mikey garcia like man he's something he's something unique and special but it's gonna take a fight like the terrence crawford fight and that's if you're a boxing fan that's the that's the obvious fight to make you know it's like tyson fury anthony joshua that's the obvious heavyweight fight to make and the obvious fight at that weight class is earl spence and terrence crawford it has to happen sooner than later sooner than later right you don't want it to be like pacquiao and floyd where it happens too late right yeah what's happening here pound for pound rankings errol spence jr passes terrence crawford what blasphemy wow blasphemy wow that's

some shenanigans who wrote that yeah that's shenanigans i don't agree with that number one canelo in ua number two that's interesting too i don't agree with that either yeah no that thing but they're great those are great fighters pound for pound is always weird though too right yes it's political yes yeah it is political there's nothing wrong with like thinking that errol spence is one of the greats right now he is but I think he needs a victory over someone like Terrence Crawford he's been doing his thing you know uh he's been doing his thing but uh they just need to fight sooner than later yeah you know what I mean let's let's put all of that lip wrestling yes to sleep and get wrestling yeah isn't that the thing though with promoters though

in boxing it's very difficult to get champions to fight champions when they're represented by different promoters yeah that becomes political as well and and hopefully uh those boxing promoters i know i know top rank want to fight terrence i mean to fight Spence. So it's just a matter of. And who is Spence with? Al Heyman. Okay. Yeah. It's a matter of them coming to the table and making it happen. Yeah.

They just have to agree on terms. It's an exciting time for boxing, though. You know, boxing comes in waves. Yeah. And right now it's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of great matchups out there. Yeah, it is. I'm excited about Shakur Stevenson.

Did you see him fight the other night? I didn't. No, I didn't watch the fight. I mean, to me, he's going to be a Mayweather on steroids. Really? Yeah, I really view him up on the ladder like that. Well, it's one of the fights that I set aside that I have to make the time. I'm just too goddamn busy to sit down and watch it.

I mean, it wasn't nowhere near close. It was kind of like a lot of flawed fights in the beginning stages where he just dominated every round. Wow. But you could still see that sweet art of what he was doing. And you're like, wow. Okay. He's going to do the same thing, you know, on the other levels. It's an interesting time now because these fights are being held with no

audience you know or very limited audience like uh anthony joshua's fight they held it in london and there was some audience members but they were very spaced out yeah and what do you think about that well i think we have to adjust to you know the world and the reality of what's taking place right now you know in a perfect world you know i miss the sounds you know the yeah that whole thing where the audience is concerned that's that's missed dramatically but hey we have to adjust and do things by the rules so i miss it but i have to tell you um calling ufc fights live with no audience there's two different i i view it as this way it's almost like going to see an acoustic concert versus like a big arena filled with people in a like a rock concert right like with electric guitars versus an acoustic guitar

there's something about the intimacy of these shows where the fights are taking place with no audience. You could hear the corner men screaming out instructions. You could hear the grunts when dudes get hit. You could hear the heavy breathing. It's like, first of all, for me as a commentator to be there live, I feel so fortunate. Because I'm like, I'm one of 20 people that's in the room to watch this world championship fight. And there's something about it that's like it makes it extra special. Even watching the fights at home, I kind of like it.

I like no audience. You hear more. No, that's true. Yeah. That's true. You got a point. I mean, I like it both ways, but if I had to choose, I want the people there. Yeah.

Well, yeah, if I had to choose, I'd want the people there because I want more people to experience it. I don't want to be selfish. Yeah. But if I'm being selfish, I kind of like no audience. Yeah. You just hear more. It's real. It's real.

But there's something wild about when crazy shit happens and the whole place gets on their feet and goes nuts yeah and then when the fight is over just the roar of the crowd there's something there's something wild about that and it's something wild about a fighter that may be down and he energized by yes the crowd and make a comeback yes you know yes yeah so is that like what your most satisfying business venture like being involved in boxing yeah it is that like what your most satisfying business venture, like being involved in boxing? Yeah, it is. That's my first love. And, you know, I just think boxing is the most exciting sport in the world. You know, so I'm in love with boxing.

And I feel more joy in that space than a lot of the other businesses that I'm in. Well, it's such a pure sport yeah you know the the highs are so high and the lows are so low and you know especially when it comes to knockouts the the finishes are so definitive what how what does you take on this uh this whole deontay wilder shit uh you know man man, I don't understand what's going on, you know, with Deontay. From what I'm hearing is they may be trying to stop the Fury and Joshua fight from taking place. And, you know, my thing is if he's not going to fight, get out of the way.

Yeah. Let the movement continue because I don, like, I tell you what, I think he missed the opportunity. He should have fought Fury in December because I think he may have would have had an edge conditioning-wise because Fury, you know, wasn't in that gym properly. Oh, he wasn't? No, I don't think he was in their gym properly around that time.

So after the rematch, Fury slacked off? Well, I don't know how much he slacked off, but I do know he wasn't where he was supposed to be. He gets fat. He likes to get fat. He parties a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just it bothers me because I've talked to Deontay. I had Deontay in here, and I have a lot of respect for him, and I have a lot of admiration for him, and his power is legendary. His power is crazy. His power is like he's got magic. Yeah. You know?

When he knocked out Ortiz, he hit him in the forehead and just shut his lights out. It's like, who the fuck does that? It's like, it's like who the fuck does that it's like it's magic but when I saw first of all you get rid of Breland Mark Breland is you know Olympic gold medalist yeah former world champion just not just a great fighter but a great human being a great coach yeah and was looking out for his best interest when he stopped that fight he knew what was happening yeah he's like, this has to stop. And then the excuses.

Yeah. The excuses bothered me. Yeah. Because when fighters start making weird excuses, that means that no one's around them to go, hey, man, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. What the fuck are you saying? Yeah. What the fuck are you saying?

Your costume was the reason why you got knocked out? Yeah. And then it wasn't just the costume. Then it was like somebody might have poisoned him. Yeah. And then it was Tyson Fury has egg weights in his gloves. Wow. And then it was the gloves aren't on properly so that the knuckles were at the bottom part of the glove and the top part was just flopping around.

Wow. It doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't make any sense for a guy who's in boxing. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make any sense for a guy who's in boxing. Because anybody who knows how Tyson Fury fights and understands boxing, Tyson does a lot of this shit. He does a lot of, like, he's showing you this to set you up with that. The hands are flopping around because he's being loose and he's giving you this.

And people are like, your hand doesn't bend back that way. Well, the fuck it doesn't. It does when you do that. It might not if you go like this. hand doesn't bend back that way. Well, the fuck it doesn't. It does when you do that. It might not if you go like this. It doesn't go all the way. But if you do that, that's exactly what happens. And he's doing that with his hands. He's flicking his hands out there, showing them that,

and then dropping the right hand on them. I was in training camp with Tyson Fury. I have a heavyweight by the name of Jared Anderson that sparred with Tyson Fury to help him get ready for that fight. And Tyson Fury was working hard. And that jab and everything that's being complained about, he was doing the same thing in sparring. Wasn't nothing to it, you know what I mean? It's organic.

And, you know, you just got to tilt his hat to the guy. He was a better guy that night. Yeah. And he worked hard. I witnessed him. He worked hard for that fight. And he was victorious. It's just sad when a great champion like Deontay Wilder, who literally knocked out every single opponent other than Tyson Fury and Stiverne in the first fight.

Yeah. I mean, he had an incredible record. When you look at the guy's record, he has one single decision. Yeah. Every other fight he won by knockout. Who the fuck does that? Who the fuck does that? Tyson couldn't accomplish that.

No one accomplished that. You can make a real argument that Deontay Wilder up until that second tyson fury fight was the greatest knockout artist of all time yeah especially in the heavyweight division may not have definitely didn't face the stiff competition that mike tyson did or that any of the other greats did larry holmes did or many greats but what he did was extraordinary the kind of power that he exhibits is just a key like like uh teddy atlas did it best it's like he's like thor he's like he's got that hammer yeah like it doesn't he's like it's an eraser it races all the mistakes you might have made in the earlier round yeah it's from the jungle i don't know it's from it's from the center of the earth man that's like the earth's core inside his glove

it's crazy his power is crazy but sometimes and I'm sure you see this as a manager sometimes when a person has extraordinary gifts like the extraordinary gift of power they don't develop the technical aspects of boxing yeah the way a person who maybe has soft hands does. Yeah, that's true. And even with speed a lot of times, you know what I mean? If they get away like Roy Jones, for example, I think he got away years because of speed and his fundamentals. Yes. Wasn't as sound as, you know, they should have been.

Well, you saw that in the Hopkins rematch, right? Because Bernard Hopkins was all about fundamentals. Yeah. All about defense and discipline. you know they should have been well you saw that in the hopkins rematch right because bernard hopkins was all about fundamentals all about defense and discipline and hopkins lost a close decision to roy in the first fight but then beat roy in the second fight when he was actually older than roy but roy's decline was more obvious because roy's game was so dynamic he was all about leaping left hooks and when roy was in his prime he was a force of nature oh yeah i mean he really really was roy was in my opinion the most impressive physical specimen inside a boxing ring i've ever seen a lot of people don't know but roy was faster than floyd that's Yeah, a lot of people don't believe that because he was light heavyweight.

His speed was faster than Floyd's speed. I can believe it. Shit, I've witnessed it. It's crazy speed, man. It wants to speed. You know, Father Time is undefeated. Undefeated. You know what I mean?

So when he started arriving you know things change shit just kind of go downhill to a certain extent well i think it was that but i really think a big factor was the the beating john ruiz at heavyweight and then draining his body down to 175 to go back and fight tarver again to fight tarver and then fight tarver again. It was too much weight loss. Wow, man. You know, now that's a whole other story because I had a meeting with Roy Jones and Mike Tyson at my ranch for them to fight one another before that fight. Really? Yeah.

How long ago? Oh, I got that in the book also, the picture and everything, me, Roy, and Mike Tyson at the ranch. And we actually left there in agreement to to make that fight and uh you know right toward the end i think me and roy we went and met with the maloof brothers uh at the palms there it is yeah and uh you know, Roy decided, I think, what's his name, Tarver was talking so much shit, man, until Roy was like, let me go take care of him one more time.

And I was like, Roy, man, let's get that bird, you know, in the hand versus that one in the bush. Yeah, he went to take care of Tarver, man. That's the only reason that fight didn't come to fruition. Tarver's no joke. Yeah. Tarver's real. When Tarver's standing in front of Roy at the rematch and he goes,

you got any excuses tonight, Roy? Like right before the fight starts, like, oh, my God. Yeah, that kind of threw me off when I heard him say that. I said, what that dude talking about in the ring to Roy? And then to win by knockout after that, man. Unbelievable. Yeah. Tarver, he doesn't get the respect that he deserves either.

Tarver was a great, great boxer. I think he's still active as a heavyweight too, right? Like up until recently, I believe he had a fight within the last couple of years. Yeah, I think he got disciplined because of steroids or something. If you want to go to heavyweight, you got to get involved with Mexican supplements. He's a good guy, though. I like Torval. Yeah.

Yeah. Talented fighter. Yeah. Very talented fighter. Yeah, big whore. Yeah. It's funny how those things line up. It could have been Mike Tyson versus Roy Jones Jr.

when they're both in their prime. Right. That's true. I really like the way Bernard Hopkins was able to. You saw the way he done Tarver? I think that was amazing the way he just dissected. Hopkins shuts people down. When he fought Felix Trinidad, I will never forget that.

Because everybody thought that Felix Trinidad was this young, up-and-coming lion. And I believe Bernard was about 36 at the time. And people were writing him off. But Bernard Hopkins beat the brakes off of Felix Trinidad. And I remember watching that fight. I'm like, my God. Yeah, he done the same thing with a guy I used to manage, Winky Wright. Oh, yeah, I remember that.

I remember that. Winky Wright was a great defensive fighter, too. He was so clever. So clever. Well, I mean, how about what he did with Kelly Pavlik? Oh, yeah. That was another. Everybody was like, well, now for sure it's over.

Right. You know, this is years past Felix Trinidad. Kelly Pavlik's a knockout artist. Yeah. You know, and everybody's like, well, this is going to felix trinidad kelly pavik's a knockout artist yeah you know and everybody's like well this is going to be the one no no yeah sweet science he had a down pat well he was just so smart at being safe and roughing you up and knowing how to be like aggressive on the inside and clinching you and frustrating guys. And just his fundamental, he was never out of position. His fundamentals are so good.

His defense is so good. Yeah. No, it's one of them special type of fighters for a long time. Long time. World class, deep into his late 40s. Yeah. World class. From Mars.

Crazy. I mean, well, that's why he had to change his nickname from the Executioner to the Alien. Because people are like, how the fuck are you doing this? Push-ups between rounds. Yeah, crazy. No, he's extraordinary. I love his story, too. Because when he went to jail and then got out, one of the guards said, I'll see you back in here.

And he remembers that guy. And remember, using that as motivation. Like, the fuck you will. Yeah. Oops. We got crazy, Jamie. Do we have a broom? We can get something.

All right, we'll leave that alone for now. It's just a glass. But it's, the whole sport of boxing is, there's a lot of life in that. It's like what you put in is what you achieve. Your results are dependent upon the way you process things and the way you approach things. Oh, yeah. There's so much to that.

And that's one of the things that I love so much about combat sports is that they're how much you put into that yeah is what you get out of it that's right you know it's it's just like the universal life i mean laws of life you know you reap what you sow and if you decide to take a shortcut it's gonna show yeah yeah it's gonna show now as a person that is you're you're so much you're so invested in discipline and respect and honor like uh it's kind of a perfect sport for you to be involved in in a lot of ways because it represents so many of those different aspects of human character yeah yeah i agree i hadn't thought of it in that aspect but you're right you know you're right but i just man i'm just in love with the sport of boxing and it just been that way since i was a kid for some reason like a magnet i remember seeing don king with the hair and

muhammad ali and man i was mesmerized like wow that looks special I got interested in boxing when I was a little kid my parents were hippies like they weren't into boxing but when Muhammad Ali had a rematch with Leon Spinks after Muhammad Ali lost his title Leon Spinks and then had a rematch my parents made us all watch it becausemad ali represented way more than boxing to the culture to just to human beings at the time yeah he represented this guy who stood up against the vietnam war right who who stood up for people in a way that he risked his career oh yeah got shut down for three years in his prime yeah after arguably like one of his most devastating performances he fought cleveland big

cat williams lights him up like a christmas tree yeah and then they make him take three years off just because he wouldn't fight in the vietnam war yeah yeah no ali actually put his life on the line you know that's that's why i call him the greatest of all time because of the things he done outside of the ring and the things he stood for yeah he was something other than just a world champion other than just a boxer and I remember when my parents I don't know how old I was at the time I was probably eight or nine years old but when my parents maybe sat sit down and watched that fight I remember thinking I can't believe my parents give a fuck about

boxing like what is this and i think that was what got me really interested in boxing yeah yeah it was bigger than boxing when i league took this yes you know that stage man he special special special i went to his funeral and um i never had experience like that with all the cultures and different things I was like stunned Wow you know people from all over the world was that speaking really yeah it was really interesting well I mean when he was alive he was the most famous human being on earth yeah you know I guess hearing about that was one thing but to actually be sitting there and yeah you know I guess hearing about that was one thing but to actually be sitting there and witnessing you know all these different people from

around the world you know what he meant to them I was like wow what the special guy he was a special guy and there's a lot of lessons to be learned both good and bad from his life as well you Yeah. Particularly about the end of his career. Right. Some of the saddest shit, and not just that, but the way he was taken advantage of. Yeah. And, you know, his need for money that he had not prepared properly and invested properly and just lived a little too loose and wild and then had to take those fights, like with Trevor Burbick.

Yeah. Those were sad fights. Yeah. a little too loose and wild and then had to take those fights like with trevor burbick yeah those are sad fights yeah definitely the one with uh who was that he fought not for uh larry holmes larry holmes oh man i left that fight kind of upset with holmes yeah a lot of people were you know what i mean i really think he went uh that extra he didn't have to, but he went there. Well, he was his sparring partner. He was Ali's sparring partner for a long time. And I think there was probably a bridge he had across to consider himself the real champion.

And I think it ruined his career. Because I think Larry Holmes never really got the respect that he deserved because of that. Because people resented him for, you know, for doing that. And then also just living in the shadow of Ali. Yeah. You can only imagine how many whoopings he took from Ali coming up. Yeah. You know, that thing went deeper than what was in front of the TV.

The problem is we didn't see that. in front of the TV. The problem is we didn't see that. All we saw was this beloved champion who was this cultural icon get the shit beat out of him by this young, up-and-coming champion. Yeah, just like with Kobe and Jordan. I remember seeing Kobe

like shit Jordan down in an All-Star game and I was like, man, raise up Kobe. Let Jordan shine his last game. But Kobe wasn't trying to hit. Yeah, raise up Kobe. Let Jordan shine his last game, you know. But Kobe wasn't trying to hit. Yeah, you can't. Yeah. At least that's acceptable.

Yeah. Because in basketball, it's, you know, it might have felt terrible for Jordan. Yeah. But it's not a beating. Right. That's the thing about boxing is you pay for it with your health. Yeah. And those consequences, the consequences of a big like meldrick taylor was never the same after the julio cesar chavez fight it was never

the same boy wasn't that a brutal fight man brutal fight when richard steel stopped it was like two seconds to go on the clock or something crazy whoa but that's a great example that I always use of a fight where the fighter is never the same again yeah you don't recover from some fights some fights take all of it out of you yeah leave it right there yeah he was never the same after that never and then I remember his fight with Terry Norris after that you could see that he was just not the same he wasn't the same guy and Terry is not the same guy he's not the same guy now that's for sure yeah yeah well he had a lot of rough fights to Julian Jackson yeah you know man you're a real

student of boxing love it the heart feel like I'm sitting there talking to encyclopedia man you know the game Well, Julian Jackson was one of those rare special punchers. Oh, man. Special. Special power. Yeah. You know? But then when Julian met Gerald McClellan, Gerald McClellan was like, I'll show you a special puncher.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, and look what happened with him. That's another one, right? Yeah. Well, that was one of the things that I talked to Roy about. That made Roy really second guess and think about his career. Because when Gerald McClellan was coming up, he was thought to be the big rival for Roy Jones Jr.

Yeah. Everybody thought that's going to be the big fight. When those two guys get together, that is going to be our version in that weight class at that time of what we want to see with Terrence Crawford and Earl Spence. Same kind of thing. Two just destroyers. What happens? What happens when you get these guys together? I want to see.

And then Gerald fought Nigel Vann. What a fight that was. Yeah, that was a tough one. I mean, you can still watch it to this day. What a fucking war that was yeah that was a tough one that was a i mean you could still watch it to this day and what a fucking war that was and the fact that nigel ben made it out of that first round yeah unbelievable what heart unbelievable what heart yeah i mean gerald mcclellan was nuking everybody just nuked them. Just boom! Boom! And Nigel Benn threw the ropes and everything. Where everyone's like

this fight's over. Nope. You never had opportunity to see him come to fruition. And that reminds me of Ike Ibuchi. That's a heavyweight. I would have really liked to. Oh, my God.

He's a beast, right? When he beat David Tua, everybody was like, holy shit. Yeah. Ikebeabuchi was terrifying. Yeah, he was. But he got in some serious trouble, right? Yeah, he did. Yeah.

Yeah, in Las Vegas. Well, there was talk of him coming back at 40 years old. He was going to get released from prison. Yeah, he got out. He did get out. Yeah, he got out he did get out yeah he got out it just didn't didn't work yeah it was too late I went visited him when he was uh in jail or in Las Vegas and man they brought him out in shackles and the girls are like he hit a visit

him man he'd been beating up all the the cell mates the inmates the you know the guards yeah yeah he was he was letting them have it in there that is the last dude you want to talk shit to in jail i can't be a buchi yeah god damn he's a beast man whoo like a big holy field yeah huge dangerous jacked yeah what they call him the president that was his nickname right yeah my god he was a tank man special dude and when he went to jail everybody was you know boxing fans were like oh no he just whatever he had that rage inside the ring yeah that rage continued throughout life cheers yeah thank you thanks for being here man I really appreciate it thanks for having me man I'm enjoying every moment what do you think about these guys that are decided

to fight again in their 50s? Guys like Tyson, Roy Jones Jr., now Holyfield as well. You know, I enjoyed the last fight. I did too. Yeah, I mean, I think it's different, but, you know, I like it as long as they don't jump in with these younger guys. Yes, that's exactly how I feel. That's exactly how I feel. I mean, I love the change.

Yeah. I enjoy both of them coming out of the ring like they went in. Yes. You know what I mean? Of course, they got him a payday. So I like it. I'm really looking forward to seeing Holyfield and Tyson play. Holyfield has been working nonstop.

Nonstop. Yeah. Holyfield's a unique character man yeah he's unbreakable one of my favorite he might lose he might lose to people but that's just because of the limitations of the human body not because of his mind yeah like his mind is unbreakable that guy has confidence in himself that never ends oh man and character just just the the ability to drive forward and conquer. Those fights with Riddick Bowe, my God.

My God. Crazy wars with Riddick Bowe. People forget about those wars. Oh my God. When I was a kid, when I was watching those fights, you'd be like, this is madness. These guys were going to war. I couldn't believe his chin.

Holy field. Incredible. He's got a chin like none other. Like nobody. Incredible. And it been that way. That shows you how good James Toney is, because James Toney stopped him. Yeah.

And I watched that fight recently. Yeah. And James Toney's a middleweight. Mm-hmm. How about that? James Toney at his best. Yeah. You know?

He's a technical beast oh my god yeah and one of the greatest talkers of all time he would talk so much just in sparring yeah and fights everything yeah at the ring yes no james tony's uh he's amazing that's the home i ran into james tony a couple of years ago. Yeah. There was a bar in Woodland Hills. And I was with some friends. I went to meet them. I sat down.

I was with my wife and a couple of her friends as well. We're having a drink. And this dude walks in with a suit. And they're like, who is that? I'm like, who is that? Who the fuck is that? I got up out of the chair. I go, that's James fucking Toney. And I went over and gave him a hug

and said hi to him. He had fought in the UFC a few years earlier. Oh yeah. He fought Randy Couture. Yeah. It didn't last long. He just took a payday.

I don't think he was really training for it. Yeah. He lived in my neighborhood at the time. Oh, okay. So I ran into him at the gas station afterwards. Right. Like a couple weeks after the fight. I was like, what's you doing he's like i'm good i'm good no those guys the boxers are kind of out of line when they decide to go in there dealing with that usc

business it takes a long time to learn but i think if they approach it correctly if they're young while they get involved and they approach it correctly. See, I think one of the more interesting entrants into mixed martial arts is Claressia Shields. Oh, yeah. Because Claressia is a beast of an athlete. Right. I mean, an incredible athlete and young. Yeah.

She's young. She can still learn all this stuff olympic gold medalist world champion boxer tremendous hand speed technical boxing skills off the charts then she goes and trains with john jones john jones who's the greatest of all time yeah so she's training with the greatest of all time and she's learning the wrestling the takededown defense. And she's going to have such an advantage with her hands. And every fight starts standing up. She's going to learn. And she's doing the right moves, in my opinion.

She signed with the PFL, which is a smaller organization. And she'll rack up some wins over there, hopefully, and then make her way eventually to the UFC. And I think that would be very interesting. Yeah, I spoke with her, and she was voicing to me her frustration when boxing was concerned and that she was really thinking about going over there. So I guess she

decided. Yeah, I talked to her a few years ago on Instagram and I said, are you interested in, are you going to fight MMA? Because I know you're interested in this because I know she did some sparring with Cyborg. She said she's thinking about it. And we had talked about doing a podcast before I left LA.

But I'm a big fan of hers. But I don't think there's any competition for her in boxing. I think she's stuck. Look at that. Look at all those belts. Pow, pow. When it comes to boxing, there's, I mean, who is she going to fight? There's only been a few standout women boxers.

And the big problem has always been competition like ann wolf for example ann wolf to this day was like in my opinion the greatest one punch knockout in the history of women's boxing whoa and ann wolf could crack yeah she could and amazing trainer when she was training james kirkland and she's having him do all kinds of crazy shit like she was she cracked that whip and james having him do all kinds of crazy shit, she cracked that whip. And James Kirkland was at his best when he was under the tutelage of Ann Wolfe. Yeah, right here in Austin. Ann Wolfe was a monster.

Yeah. Show that one-punch knockout because it is crazy. It's right before that. Watch this power. Seriously, who's got this kind of power? Right here. Boom. Wow.

I mean, come on. And just everything. Whoa. Technical, had incredible work ethic. I mean, Ann Wolf was a monster. But who was there for her? Who was there? Layla Ali, but that never happened never happened

yeah leila ali is another one yeah muhammad ali's daughter rose to fame he made some money but what's the competition who's there for her you know it's hard lucia reicher never got her due lucia reicher was a beast a beast and she was an elite kickboxer too yeah she's from Holland you know which is Holland is the the birthplace of you know Muay Thai came from Thailand but Holland they took Muay Thai and turned it into this style of kickboxes Dutch kickboxing right Lucia Riker was a beast of a kickboxer couldn't really get the fights she wanted there and decided to go into boxing. Always chased down Christy Martin, but never got that fight.

You know, Christy Martin was on a lot of undercards, and she got kind of famous. Coal Miner's daughter. But again, it's like they don't get the fights that they want, you know? Yeah, that's true. It's a hard world. Yeah, hard, but it's fair. But MMA is the only place right now where women can shine for whatever reason, where they have legitimate elite status, where they get a lot of press,

they get the accolades, they get the respect, they get the money. Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's true. Do you follow MMA at all? Not totally. I watch here Yeah, that's true. Do you follow MMA at all? Not totally. I watch here and there, but yeah. I just love that guy that wrestled the bears.

Oh, Khabib? Yeah. Khabib Nurmagomedov is a monster. He's a monster. Yeah. Yeah. He really is a monster. He's a monster.

Yeah. He's so disciplined. So disciplined. Yeah. There's a guy, guy very religious no drinking no smoking no fucking around no nothing devout muslim just just discipline just full dis and a champion's mentality and undefeated undefeated in the most talent-filled weight class in the world at 155 pounds no one's undefeated at 155.

This guy, he's not just undefeated. He might have lost two rounds in his whole career. Might. Might have. Maybe just one. Wow. Everybody else just gets smashed. You know, it's amazing where you see greatness.

You know, it's never without that discipline and that individual that's making that commitment to you know become great yeah it's never missing no it's never missing it's never missing you get flashes of of spectacular talent without discipline you know there's there's always been a few guys that were like very talented and you'd see them you're like wow this guy's dangerous he's very talented but without discipline you never develop that sort of legacy yeah that a true champion like Khabib has and it always comes with discipline and in real life too to a certain extent you know you just don't it don't happen a lot of people call it luck nope yeah they like to call it luck when they don't have the discipline and the time

they they don't do it they like to call it luck but when someone's consistent over long periods of time yeah pay attention yeah pay attention there's some fucking discipline involved there because otherwise they're not going to make it yeah there has to be there has to be that work ethic you're right it doesn't there's no real long-term success exists without it you can have these little flashes yeah you know yeah the problem with those flashes is you you are you given a gift yeah and you don't give that gift the respect and the justice that it deserves yeah that's that moment yeah yeah versus the movement yes yes yes the moment versus the movement yeah yeah and some people never learn that. When you wrote this book, was this a book not just to sort of relay the lessons that you've learned in, I guess it came from an energy and a situation of me, first of all, what happened where I was concerned.

You know, my wins, my't really thinking it would cover. But, you know, just being real, you know, it's something about being real. I figured that out when my kids was concerned, you know, when I would speak with them and not try to, you know, sugarcoat different things. But just the butt naked authentic truth, you know uh sugarcoat different things but just uh the butt naked authentic authentic truth you know i noticed they embraced the truth just a little better than trying to sugarcoat things so in my book i just raw and uncut you know this is how it was so i'm gonna just tell it like it is was this a calling for you did you have like this feeling in your head that you needed to do this and write this all down yeah i definitely feel like uh it definitely was a calling because i was a guy that i enjoyed being a quiet storm in the music industry i i never anybody that

followed my uh you know my track record and thing from the past, I was low key. And it came a point where I call it the spirit kind of moved on me to, you know, matter of fact, is living out my purpose. You know what I mean? It's one thing to engage with your talent and show everybody your talent. And then I think as human beings, as we evolve, then there's a time for purpose. And in my purpose, I want to inspire, uplift, you know, kind of help my fellow man to a certain extent. So all of that was the movement that caused me to want to share, you know, my story.

So was it all the lessons that you learned in your life that are just sitting in your mind and you're saying, like, I have to share these. These are these are valuable for other people and it will help other people. Yeah, most definitely. I knew when I had to go back and like really think of the things that I had came through. I didn't really do that before I wrote the book. through uh i didn't really do that before i wrote the book i just went to like uh recording my stories on on paper and i'm like wow you know i came from a lot of shit i went through a lot of you know trials tribulations and different things like that that i know people go through you know because as i would travel around the world everybody asked me how you done this what when where how you was able to accomplish these things so

it was like a build-up was taking place over the years that okay I need to share you know my glory because everybody want my story now everybody want my glory but everybody don't want my story. You know what I mean? Well, one of the things that's so valuable about a book like this is for young people, they get to read all the things you went through, and it gives them a structure. It gives them an idea of what's possible for themselves. When they see someone they admire, someone that's become extremely successful, and they read how it all went down, and then they apply that in their own life, they think about their own life, it's very valuable. Like a book like this can be fuel to a young person that's thinking about how do I become successful? How do I become someone that I like, the people that I admire? Well, you read a book by the people that you admire and you try to figure out what they did

and you read what they were thinking what it was like for them and you absorb that and take it in yourself yeah no absolutely that's absolutely absolutely true um it's it's kind of hard to get a lot of people to read and i was one of those people and And that's why, you know, on my journey now, you know, I really try to express and explain to them that readers are leaders. You know, if you want to become a leader, it's important to read because it was reading that really caused my career to go to a whole nother level when I started reading. You know, because I was kind of where where i come from reading wasn't wasn't popular it was like a boring thing to do but it's a lot of power in reading and uh you know i wanted to be an example to people like myself you know that didn't believe in reading or just if you're interested in how to turn nothing into something if you're interested

in the structure and the different rules of how to do things then pick up a book get the art and science of respect what were the books that inspired and and educated you when you first started reading them um the biggest one that was life-changing to me was Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting book. Yeah, very. And what it done for me, that particular book, I had a lot of gifts and a lot of powers that I was unaware of. And I also wasn't aware of the importance of structure, you know, organizing and and goals writing the goals down and different things like that so when i read that book you know it it was i tell everybody it was like a lot of biblical readers are familiar with with moses when he went up to get the ten commandments

and he came back with his eyes on fire and like, you know what I mean? He had saw something special. When I read that book, that's what happened to me. A lot of, you know, my brain cells that was closed was open because, you know, I understood that I didn't really necessarily need a degree. You know, I was in bondage for a long time thinking because I didn't have a degree, I couldn't accomplish and become certain things that left immediately. You know what I mean? And that's the importance of people, you know, being able to identify with people that, you know, came from a place that they came from. You know what I mean? I didn't have that, but I figured out how to do it. So you could figure out how to do it the same way, you know, I did without, you know, of course, we definitely push people toward, you know, education because, you know, I understand real clearly a lack of education and bad habits is what, you know, can cause you to stay in bondage. It's beautiful, though, that you promote. That's self-education.

It is education. Yeah. I mean, education doesn't just have to be at a school where you have to pay and go to. You can get a tremendous education from books. Yeah, that's true. Did someone refer that book to you? Did someone try to get you to read these books, or did you just find them on your own? someone try to get you to read these books or did you just find them on your own you know that particular book every night you know in my life since i've been like nine years old you know i've

been a praying man i always pray for wisdom knowledge and education and when that book you know came in my hand i felt like it was answer prayer you know what i mean so when i started reading the book i couldn't put it down you know what i mean and it caused me to uh i think i stayed in my room for like two days and when i came out i i like reconstructed my whole company at rap a lot you know i went and like end up buying out my partner. You know, I had a meeting with him and I, and I told him, I say, I want to run my company now. You know what I mean? Because I had been using him for years as the guy up front, he had the degree and, you know, I felt like, you know, uh, he was more qualified to do these things than I was. So I stayed in the background,

was more qualified to do these things than I was. So I stayed in the background, worked in the studio with the artists and just made sure product was, you know, being done. But after reading that and educating myself that you are fully qualified, more than qualified to do this, I had a meeting with him and tried to convince him to take a back seat and let me run the situation, which led to me having to buy him out because he didn't feel I was qualified. So against all odds, I bought him out. And the banker, the distributor, everybody was trying to discourage me. And everybody was saying, I'm going to be out of business in six months if I do that. So I wasn't trying to hear any of that. You know what I mean?

I fired like 25 people and kept like three. And within them six months, I had set up a record in rap a lot that had never been set before financially. That's beautiful. Yeah. Real story. That's a beautiful story. Yeah.

Did you get inspired by any other books after that? Man, I get inspired by, I'm like on a reading journey right now. The Master Key. You know, I love that book. I don't know if you've read The Master Key. It's another great one. That's another one that really taught me about the universal laws of life you know what I mean it was important for me to learn about the universal laws because there's a time in my

life I was working against the universal laws and to understand how the universal laws operate you know has caused me to be able to live a much smoother, fruitful life without going against them. What specifically about the universal laws? Okay, other words, like if you have an understanding, let's just say on the law of gravity, if you really understand the law of gravity and you understand that if I get on top of this building

and jump down and I'm not going to float, then you don't have to float. Right. Right. And if you understand the law of attraction, you understand the power of your mind that you can dream of these things and execute a work ethic and different things behind the law of attraction. And you focus on that, then you can bring that to fruition. So, you know, those are powerful laws that meant a difference to me. And when you, do you have a book list of like these books that have inspired you that you recommend to other people? Do you have that listed anywhere where anybody can access that?

Yeah. Is it online or something? Well, I may have a few. You got anybody can access that? Yeah. Is it online or something? Well, I may have a few. You got it in your phone? Yeah. But I mean, for people listening to this conversation right now that want to be as successful as you, there's probably a lot of people like, come on, Jay, tell me what you got. They want to know about the books, right?

Yeah. Oh, my God, man. I mean, there's so much in learning what the people that you admire were inspired by. Because I'm sure you're inspiring people with your work. And the people that are inspired by you are like, well, what inspired him? How did he get all this juice? How did he get all this motivation? How did he get all this information?

Yeah. No, that's true. Well, we definitely can't leave out the word of god you know what i mean um have you all used you've always been a very religious person i don't know if i would call it very religious but i've always been a believer and uh the bible for example you know proverbs is one of my favorite chapters. You know, I've been able to use Proverbs, which was written by King Solomon, the smartest man in the world. That has, you know, when I use those principles, I was able to compete with all the degrees in the world. You know what

I mean? From a business perspective, from a a personal you know like a road map in my personal life just proverbs you know so it's different things like that that I was able to execute and you know made a major difference you gotta listen your phone there yeah okay here's a few of course thinking grow rich compound effect the art and science or respect the passion test the master key system okay so all these books are essentially about success yeah yeah I don't like I don't really read a lot of fiction I don't have time yeah I'm trying to like be better yeah so i'm always like uh chasing that that book that would add to you know what i already have one of the

things that i read about you that was crazy was that there was a time where the feds had tried to take you out mm-hmm you were full story yeah yeah you were formulating a company with it was Suge Knight and was it her of God he you're of God II yeah and you and Suge Knight were formulating your own distribution company right and what happened well my journey with them trying to take me out happened way before then. Really? Oh, yeah. When did it start? I would say it started back in the early 90s.

You know, I was, I remember, and here's what happened. Here's what I believe with all of my heart. You know, I'm a guy that made a transition from the streets to corporate America in my early 20s. And I really believe that they saw greatness taking place with me. And I say that because as I started making my transition and start prospering, I started driving nicer cars. You know what I mean? I start, like, empowering ex-convicts in different things. I built Rap-A-Lot.

We became the number one independent label for years, you know, with ex-convicts. You know, and it's something I put together, you know, and it was a, I used a formula. You know, I told these guys, okay, you got to get that world up. And I wanted completely giving up if you're coming over here to deal with me because I understood that if you give up 99% and hold on to one, they'll take that one and destroy the 99. understanding we was able to build a number one record label for years but it caused problems because they felt like i was money laundering it felt like a lot of things was taking place where my success was concerned and it a lot of animosity build up which ultimately led to dea coming involved in them trying to like take my very life but as and we can talk about that part but you asked me about the Suge and Irv Gotti situation what we had done is had a meeting in um in LA and we were considering starting a black-owned distribution because we felt like

it was a need for artists to come after us and we was trying to make a better way in a smoother way for them because even back then I saw where change was trying to take place in the industry and they wasn't going to allow I call it a conspiracy I saw the conspiracy taking place where they wasn't gonna allow any more masterpiece cash money earth God is independent yeah independence they were like shedding that door yeah so you know in my mind I'm like okay I see the mood they make and let me counter this and create another avenue for the youth to come in after us and unfortunately i think uh they witnessed the same thing and they hit murder inc which is herb got a company

destroyed it they hit suge knight deferral we know what happened with that and they came at me in a massive way you know all the way up to the point where they put a man on me that killed eight people and i really believe you know he was trying to kill me and when you say they put a man on you like in what way they assigned a guy by the name of Schumacher, you know, owned me to arrest me to whatever he was supposed to do. But he sent death threats at me. And here's a man that killed eight people. You know, I hired an investigator since they was investigating me. I decided to hire an investigator to investigate them. And that's when I found out this guy killed all of those people.

You know, I brought the investigating report so you can look at it if you choose. Yeah, you showed me outside. Yeah. So, you know, this was a real life situation that people may hear and think, you know, this is not true. But here's confirmation of how true it was in 1999 you know i reported this with the help of congresswoman maxine waters janet reno because they intervened on my behalf because they saw what was happening and of course we they had a uh what you call it, a congressional hearing on me.

All of this is public information. A congressional hearing where the DEA and, you know, it reminded me of the time when Clarence Thomas was being, a hearing was taking place over his harassment or something. And all of those people Democrat and Republicans was around you know what I mean had him in a circle so this is the conversation they was having concerning me James Prince and I'm watching this you know on on video I'm not invited but I'm watching them had this conversation about me about the congressional hearing and I'm just like have this conversation about me, about the congressional hearing. And I'm just like, wow, you know, these people want me pretty bad.

But a long story short, you know, they were able to speak up on my behalf. And, you know, which ultimately, oh, there's so many connections to this. Because even Al Gore, you know, came in a portrait where they tried to set me up at my church with Al Gore. Al Gore came to visit my church, you know, which when you're running for president, you visit a lot of black churches and stuff like that. And my pastor wanted me to meet Al Gore that day. So when I pull up, you know, I was married at the time. You know, I told my wife, I say, all these people ain't here with the president because I was watching body language. You know, I saw black glasses kind of look in my direction. And she said, oh, come on, boy, you being leery, you know, them people not thinking about you or whatever.

So I went and heard the sermon. And before the sermon was over, I say, let's go. Normally I hang around and socialize. And of course, pastor wanted me to meet Al Gore. I decided to leave. And shortly after the Dallas newspaper came out with a story and all of this this you can confirm and look it up. James Prince donated a quarter million dollars to Al Gore at the church to stop an investigation on him. Oh, man, just a bunch of BS. Unbelievable. You know what I mean?

So I was being set up. In the news. Oh, yeah. It's documented. So they created this fake story to make you look bad and they printed it in the news so it had to be coordinated at the very top oh yeah wow yeah what was that like to know they were conspiring against you like that you know first of all you had to feel like oh shit i must have fucking made it well i didn't quite feel that i had made it i felt like they wanted to hit me yeah you know because like these this guy one night i left my office and a dps officer

stopped me he got behind me on the streets when i left out of the office, but he stopped me on the freeway. And it was the first time I was stopped one time to be told to go and stop again. So he stopped me on the freeway and told me to go and pull in the McDonald's parking lot. So I said, oh, okay. So as I exit the freeway and looked over in the McDonald's parking lot. So I said, oh, okay. So as I exit the freeway and looked over in the McDonald's parking lot, it was dark. And I saw a cherry, a cherry key Jeep green and a cutlass. And it was dark. So I'm like, nah, I'm not pulling in that dark. So I kind of told him I'm going to pull in the Shell Station where the lights were. And I could hear him in the back, pull fucking over on his thing.

Make a right. I'm like, nah, I'm going to go over here. So I went over there in the light. I had some guys behind me following me because they had been sending me threats. So I'm not stupid. So I understood that, that you know i need to cover myself until i make it home and uh when i pull over you know the officer got out and he said why you didn't pull over like i told you i say sir i didn't want you to think i was trying

to hurt you in that dark and i didn't want to think you was trying to hurt me. What's the problem? Well, you were swerving. I said, no. I said, you got the wrong man. I don't drink. I don't smoke. Wasn't no swerving going on with me.

Well, where are your guns? Right? How do he even know I have guns? I gave him my gun license. I said, well, how do you know I have guns I gave him my gun lights and I say well how you know I have guns I haven't even given you my license so I gave him my license I say my hands on the steering wheel my guns under my seat well well get out the car get out I said okay I don't have a problem with that how much money you have I say you want to borrow some money or something why you asked me about my money so he told me to go in the back of the car so i went back there and um he went and searching my car you know he in there i see him like moving around with things

but he went on the passenger side so I walk around I say man why are you violating my right searching my car and he jumped get back I'm looking for the gun I said I told you where the guns are clearly you then passed him up you got my clips out so anyway he came back and I could see him making eye contact with the car with the people across the street and eventually one of them drove over and this was also about a name of Chad Scott he had like black paint on his eyes and army fatigue type of uniform and him and also you know translated some words and he came back to me and said, okay, you're free to go and gave me a warning ticket.

You know, a warning ticket. And it was then when I got home, I realized a bullet or two was missing. So red flags like, yeah, like went up. I'm like, damn, why would they keep one of my bullets? Why were they trying to pull me in the dark? damn, why would they keep one of my bullets? Why were they trying to pull me in the dark? This was before I knew, you know, Schumacher had killed eight people.

You know what I mean? So, you know, I went home and that really caused me to, you know, want to protect myself and want to document why I wanted to protect myself. It's so bizarre that they would take bullets too, because without the rifling from your particular gun, like all it's establishing is the same round you use. Right. It doesn't mean anything. Yeah.

I didn't understand. You know, I just counted them and I'm like, when you said that they were threatening you like death threats, like what kind of death, how are you receiving these? What they were doing. And it's an investigative report.

People that worked for me you know i had a street team that would promote my records in different clubs at night what they had done was jumped on a couple guys they pull them over they took them down to the station stripped them naked you know jumped on them took, you know, all kinds of stuff, and send messages, let him know, you know, we're going to do this, we're going to do this. Which eventually, when I made my report, they end up finding the jewelry and different things that I reported that, you know, God told them, these guys, you got rogue cops. I said, y'all put a hit man on me. You got two rogue cops that's doing this and doing that, and I'm in fear of my life.

You know, I just want it to be known because if a situation take place and I come out on top, then I don't want nobody to be mad at me, right? Because I'm going to protect myself. Yeah. Yeah. How long did this period of turmoil last? Because it seems like that would be incredibly stressful. Well, it went on for years. Years. Yeah. Even before then, they stopped me one night and they they planted a pill on me called ecstasy. You know, and where they And where did they put it?

They put it. Here's what happened. I was in the back seat. First of all, the police stopped me. And this was an officer I had a run in with, with a pistol case. And I beat the pistol case. So he stopped me on Richmond one night and he was like, well, how did you beat that case? And he knew it was me because I had rap line on my license plate.

How did you be? I said, man, i don't really want to talk about that i said i'm trying to go to a party you know why are you stopping me so made me get out put me in the back of the police car kept me there you know talking to people for you know quite a long time and he decided to take me off the main street to a side street. And it was then where he took me out of one car and took me to another car with two more younger rookie officers. And shortly after, he came out with a pill in the back of the first car. Look what we have here. in the back of the first car look what we have here and i'm like you know when i seen that taking place i said to the two officers i say man i say i've been in here y'all know he's nah you're not trying to do that that's not look what we have here look what we have here and before i know it i was headed to the police station and they charged me with a pill called ecstasy and i immediately got out of jail took a test a drug test took a lie detector test just to prove you know i had nothing to do with

any of that so they tried to get me to cop out for probation and cop out i'm like no so the pill changed from ecstasy to drant transact whatever that field is and it changed again it was constantly changing as they test the pill and they were basically trying to get me to cop out for something and i wouldn't and eventually the case was dismissed so how many years did all this go on for you said it went on for years how many years i would say 10 years 10 fucking years 10 years of better i was a target how did you stay calm during that time because that's got to be incredibly stressful yeah it was you know because like in the hood where i'm from you have to uh survive the guys that's in the hood because they're trying to get you. You know, wherever success is concerned, they're trying to get you.

And the police that's supposed to be protecting me, the ones I'm paying all these taxes to, had became an enemy where they was trying to get me. So it was very stressful, but after so long, I became immune to it. It's almost like, you know, I had a made-up mind because I was on a journey to break the poverty curse where my family was concerned. That was my whole drive. I'm like, I got to get my mother this house that she always wanted. You know, I come from the projects.

So I was dealing with a power that was greater than the power was from the streets and from the police. And I was like, you know, no weapon formed against me going to prosper. So, you know, I had that mentality. I wrapped it around spirituality and you know i said if god be for me the world could be against me and you know it just became like a a lifestyle dealing with them people so you just developed an immunity yeah i had to like being around sick people exactly yeah yeah so the dea was trying to pin a case on you about they figured there must be some money laundering going on because because you're from the hood because you're incredibly successful rap a lot records is killing it yeah like there's got

to be something else going on they They probably can't help themselves. They didn't think you had the kind of discipline that you had. And they probably felt you kept one foot in the streets. You kept one foot in either the drug game or some kind of crime they could catch you on. So here's what they ultimately done, though. And, you know, of course, you know, I had i had ex convicts and different things working for me so what they actually actually done was they got a female that was uh spending money with one of my groups now with two or three of my groups bringing them to new orleans and different things

to do different concerts and this particular female ended up dating one of my guys that was working for me. And she was a fat? She was a snitch. And she was trying to work out an awful situation. So she's spending money with him. She's giving sex to him. And which ultimately led to her setting up a situation where she told him, oh, I have these two college guys that's coming in town and they have a hundred and some thousand dollars. Now, all you have to do, I'm going to take them to Papados.

And all you have to do is get the key off of the tire of my vehicle and go to the room and get the bag and go free. It's a hundred and some thousand dollars in it. So my guy that worked for me bid on that, but he bid on it in a manner where he sent someone else because he wasn't really hip to conspiracy. Right. So he sent somebody else, a guy that's like a nobody. You know, he sent him to go get it. But in the process of him sending, he was with me. This was a guy that was with me. It's almost like an angel sent me to pick him up and take him to a restaurant.

And, you know, when I read the transcripts they having a conversation and he couldn't talk to her because he was around me and he told her that you know i'm around i'm around the homie you know i can't talk right now well why are you with him this is what she's saying you know we're supposed to be handling this business so that conversation is one of the reasons why they couldn't get me he couldn't even have a conversation around me other than that they would have made it appear like i was involved so clearly you weren't involved no real clearly because of those words you know so but they was able to penetrate the system by you know getting him and another guy because they bit on that situation and when they got that bag it was drugs in that bag

you know they put kilos in that bag even though she told them it was going to be money the feds have a way of doing what they want to do and it was able to stick you know so they basically take kilos from like when they bust someone for drugs they take that shit and then they use it as evidence and then they use it to set somebody up yeah yeah it should be illegal the way yeah they done that you know what i mean sure it's entrapment yeah it's entrapment and what happened was the same guy that participated in that chad scott if you look up what happened to him a year or two ago, he got arrested for doing these very same things, you know, a year or two ago. So he's been doing it for a long fucking time. Yeah. If he just got caught.

Think about the lives that he destroyed. You know, think about the people that is doing years, you know, almost life sentences because of what he'd been doing. Well, it's the darkest part of our criminal justice system. It's one of the things that I've talked to Josh Dubin about and Jason Flom when he was on here, this nonviolent drug offenses. Yeah. This long history of putting people in jail for nonviolent drug offenses and these people are still in jail there's people in colorado right now that are in jail for marijuana possession and they can

look out their prison window and see legal marijuana grow operations while they're in jail for marijuana possession and marijuana sales it's crazy no it's crazy you know and it's a racist system and you know i hope someday like real soon it changed you know what i mean they're using people like human batteries to generate income because these prisons are all for profit yeah they're private prisons for profit there's an extraordinary amount of them yeah and they they're incentivized to get more people in jail so they use lobbyists to make sure that drug laws stay the same or or even stricter yeah they keep those prisons filled and they generate income from those prisons they

use human beings oh yeah they get caught up in that trap literally as batteries they're like batteries to make money or legal slavery legal slavery yeah yes exactly and we think it's over you know what i mean well it's the darkest shit of all time it's like there's no concern whatsoever for where these people came from yeah the situation that they faced the obstacles that they overcame and then the fact that they get set up yeah that some of them are getting set up like this and they're getting set up by people that are being paid in tax dollars yeah it's insanity yeah it's insane and in the future history when they look back at us today these times and these things yeah whatever is honestly discussed and told it'll be a shame

it'll be shameful people people will be embarrassed by who we are today yeah no no i agree you know and i i gave the analogy like with my guys. It was almost like, can you imagine like rehabilitating drug users that's going to a class where they are rehabilitating class? And the very officers that we pay our tax to are circling around that class where they are to try to give them cocaine to like get them to relapse that's what was happening yeah I suppose happening because one of the things that I described all the time when it comes to the police is that you have to recognize that cops are playing a game and when you're playing a game the game is arrest a person make the charge stick yeah it doesn't seem like a game because it's it's there's laws and there's

perpetrators and there's you know violent offenders there's all these different things that they like to call people and different scenarios but at the end the day, if you're an officer, you have a mandate. Your mandate is to arrest people and to make charges stick. So it becomes like a game. That's why prosecuting attorneys, they hide evidence that they know will exonerate the person. They lie to defense attorneys. They withhold information. They do this on purpose because they want to win

that game because if you can win that game and get more convictions their career will escalate so we've set it up yeah in this way where you're incentivizing people to cheat yeah to steal to become a criminal in support of law enforcement. Man, you couldn't have said it better. You know what I mean? That's the reward. That's your reward. You have to do these things to be rewarded.

It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy that we accept that. It's crazy. It's crazy that you can withhold information that you know will exonerate a defendant. And you don't get tried with a crime yeah they don't they they get they're scot-free they skate they ever just sweeps it under the rug yeah it's all nothing and that's the pain that we feel you know in our communities yeah a lot of people want to know why you know people act and do certain things you know we become victims

of these type of uh this type of hate you know what i mean where because it's not that one person that's doing that time it's the whole family right his kids and everybody and it become a thing that we feel so deeply you know what i mean where it really like it really affects us in a way man where a lot of people get stuck and they start expressing it through hate yes stuck is the best term yeah and it uh it exacerbates and encourages this feeling of helplessness yeah that doesn't give you an option to get out and even if it's not the grand plan if it's not like i'd like to look at conspiracy theories or any conspiracy on a step by step basis and i think a lot of it is just the system itself the way it's set up i don't think

these cops are involved in this grand conspiracy but in a way they are because what they're doing whether they know it or not is encouraging this feeling of helplessness because they know that these cops aren't looking out for everybody they're not looking out for you they want to arrest you all their job is to get as many people arrested as possible yeah and a few cops figure their way through it and maintain a good reputation and good cops. But those, in a lot of cases, are the exception. Yeah.

And what I witness, and I can't call them good, but what I witness is, like, I believe there's some good cops out there. As do I. Yeah. But as I as do I. Yeah. But but those that witness and I witness so many of them turn their head, you know, when they see corruption going on. To me, they are corrupt, just as corrupt as the one that's doing it. And a lot of them do that. A lot of them do that. It's the culture. Yeah. That's, you know, the code of silence. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the culture of law enforcement. It's deeply, deeply unfortunate. You know, when you see the Floyd Mayweather or the, excuse me, George Floyd death, when that cop is leaning on his neck and the other cops are just standing around.

Right. That's the code of silence. Oh, yeah. They're allowing it to happen. They know that dude's been on that guy's neck for eight fucking minutes and they're just standing there they know yeah but that is they're all in it together and a lot of times they feel like they have to stand together because the department doesn't defend them internal affairs always looking to bring them down too yeah and their job is to go out and get people and they they get together and

they they tell themselves the only people you can trust are other cops and we've got to stick together and these are the rules and you and you're a young cop if you get involved in that you realize early on like your ideas of like law enforcement being this beautiful thing that's out there to protect communities and like no no yeah no it's a game yeah it's a game the game is you got to arrest people yeah you got to lie about how fast people were going you got to plant drugs in someone's car true it's true and and they've been playing that game for so long forever they just happen to catch you know george floyd on on camera because of social media and they're catching so many things but because of a 17 year old girl yeah one 17 year

old girl who's on the scene who happened to be filming it with her phone yeah well for example like this dea ex-dea agent schumacher you know eight people that has been killed by his hands you know when we interviewed his lieutenant who had retired, he said he always questioned all of those murders that this guy had done because he would lie. His story would change. You know, I had investigated it, actually interviewed this guy. So I brought to the table concrete evidence such as that, you know, and when I was there talking to the head guys who wanted to know why i was accusing the dea agent as being a hit man i'm like well give me a better name for him because it was totally unnatural for any officer to use his gun that many times and it was no problem so they just accepted that it was a part of the job.

Oh yeah. How did you get this guy off you? Well, eventually what happened was after I came back from Washington, DC, um, somebody was wise enough to, well,

what they done was they went and searched his desk and his locker, him and Chad Scott. And they found evidence that I had told him about, such as a rapalette piece, the jewelry and different things. That they were planning. Yeah. Yeah. They had took this and kept it. So they put them on desk jobs. They reprimanded them and put them on a desk job. And they decided that they didn't want to see he and I running to one another on the streets after I had, you know, documented that I was in fear of my life. So that would have looked worse for them than anything. So they moved him. Matter of of fact he's out here somewhere the owner of a gun store now retired oh my god that's crazy so you know that's crazy but his other guy

his other sidekick is on his way to prison. He was found guilty of doing the same stuff. He never stopped. He was a younger guy. So they moved him to Louisiana, and he just picked up the ball and started doing everything he was doing in Houston and in Texas in Louisiana, and they caught up with him. There's a guy named Michael Dowd who's been on my podcast before he is uh one of the people that was featured in a documentary about a corrupt uh corrupt uh police precinct called the seven

five in new york city it's an amazing documentary and he came in and and talked to me about on the podcast but the literally his first day on the job he watched cops murder somebody and they were told you know he's, shut your fucking mouth. This is what we do. You're a cop now. Keep your fucking mouth shut. And he became a guy who was robbing drug dealers, selling drugs, protecting drug dealers, setting up hits. I mean, it's madness.

That's what these guys was doing. The same thing. It happens. Different toilet. Yeah, it happens. It's crazy these guys was doing. The same thing. It happens. Different toilet. Yeah, it happens. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy that those are the people that we think of as the good guys.

Yeah. Yeah. And so a guy like you, who legitimately is trying to escape that life, you get set up without gore. The guy was running for president right you get dea hitmen coming after you trying to set you up like it's amazing that you maintain your calm through all this that you you've you've you've gotten through it without being insanely paranoid yeah and I may be paranoid to a certain extent you might be right you might not be paranoid you might just be aware you know it definitely was a

situation that I feel scarred me to a certain extent you know there's no doubt about it uh definitely i'm in a i'm in a peaceful more peaceful spot today but in the midst of that journey and that war you know it's like every day you you feel like in your mind you you're legal and you're doing what's right you're law-abiding citizen and but the reality was you you damn if you do if you do it this way you damn if you you know what i mean i i couldn't like figure it out but i still chose to stay on the side of right yeah i mean i wouldn't i refuse to uh to allow them to set me up or get me in darkness and i understood that darkness you know if i campaign in darkness i'm gonna get elected in darkness so yeah you know what's very admirable it really is

because there's this when you have this system that is uh they're they're unsupportive of people escaping the life. They want to keep you connected in some way, shape, or form to crime. They never want to think, well, here's this inspirational person that not only has escaped, but maybe will offer a beacon of light to other young dudes who are in that life who want to escape a man who has become extremely successful look look what he does look what he does he reads he hustles he's disciplined and you can do this too and he has escaped the life yeah instead of that yeah they look at you like a a hoop they're trying to throw a ball through they're just trying to score yeah it was uh i got respect from a whole different generation of police officers

now the younger police officers today like now i would ride through the hood and i would get stopped and get a rest now they'll stop me and want an autograph because you know you asked me how this shift took place i could only uh i would only say i guess i survived the storm you know what i mean and they able to see that i was able to like inspire generations to come. I really feel that high powers recognize thinkers, people that know how to think, you know, like those that came before me, you know, Martin Luther King, all the people they destroyed because they saw a movement taking place that they didn't like. I know I had a movement taking place and it's evidence that I had that movement taking place today you know because the south or who they are because of the foundation I laid and you know I had artists I mean CEOs like Cash Money like Master P, Tony Draper, you know Swisher House, Jay-Z,

all of them watching my movement at ground zero, which inspired them to, you know, to come to fruition with their movements. So I think these guys saw that being bred in them. They they know when they hop, the people in power know when they see the truth at work. And a lot of times they assign people to to destroy that before it come to fruition and i think that was their assignment where i was concerned it is interesting though that over the test of time your true character has emerged and that people understand who you actually are and that the young cops they actually like you now yeah it's a total role reversal yeah yeah that was surprising to me you know where you know because i was used to uh

being uh racially profiled all the time because you know i ride clean i like nice cars you know and uh to be stopped like all the time without doing anything was I had to get used to that. You know what I mean? I had to like, OK, this is like going to be a lifestyle. Like I brush my teeth every day. You know what I mean? This is just going to happen. Even though, you know, I took a stand and and I always voiced it on the hip-hop records. That was one of my relief podiums where during the ghetto boys, I would get on the intros and put the spotlight on all the things they was doing to us because I knew it was happening all around the world and ghettos all around the world.

And the people loved me for, you know, expressing the pain that we all was feeling and what they were doing to all of us, where the laws was being broken. And to this day, you know, they love me for that. Well, I think your message is very important. I think your message of discipline and of character and of how you've succeeded and how you've succeeded by following those principles is so important for people. poverty, wanting to figure out a way to be a person like you, to see that you've laid out these ground rules that you follow, to see that you've laid out these steps that you've taken, and to see that you've done it all in a book. Yeah. And encourage people to not just read this book, but read the books that inspired you

to get to the position that you're at. Yeah. It's so valuable. It's the best way to give back. I mean, you can give back in a lot of ways and they're all great. But one of the best ways to give back is with honesty and with your just you've learned some things and people can learn those things through you. Yeah. So valuable.

Right. And that's my goal. That's my goal to uh leave that with them i know when i'm you know when i cross over in heaven you know this book will still be here yeah the blueprint you know the blueprint of uh you know my business life and my personal life on how i was able to you know conquer you know the conquer, you know, the odds and different things that were set up against me. Did you do an audio book?

Yes. I love audio books. Yeah, me too. That's how I do it right now. It's my favorite way because I'm in traffic, I'm driving around, and I can get those books in. Man, I love audio. It's a big deal for me, man.

In the sauna, at the gym, audio books. It just makes regular time educational you get something in yeah and i'm reading it so i'm not a speed reader beautiful just like i'm speaking i love when people read their own books i hate when someone else reads it yeah if you had some dorky actor in your book you know like respect it was the fall 1988. And I'm sitting the fuck out of here. Right? Imagine that. I've imagined it.

I've read it. I've seen it, rather. I've listened to it. It's terrible. It's terrible. My fans would be disappointed in me. Oh, devastated. Yeah.

Yeah. They would rather hear me struggle with the reading than... No, well, you have such a distinctive voice, too. Yeah. I think it's very important that people, especially when it's an autobiography, read your own books. The only person that should never read his own books is Stephen King. Stephen King is a great writer, but he's terrible at reading his books. But there's a fiction. You need an actor to read those fiction books. It's a different jam. It's a different thing.

One of the things that I know that you are very passionate about is raising up the South. Right. That means a lot to you. Why is that? Because in the beginning, I had to, like, blaze a trail. You know, it was a struggle. You know, New Yorkers was a struggle you know uh new yorkers was dominating our airways they was dominating all the dj spots the clubs you know they was relentless with their

hustle i give them credit you know what i mean and they was like spreading their troops everywhere you know what i mean so with me me having to like make them believers and change that situation, I'm a little more passionate about the journey than most because I understood how we got booed. And when we went to New York and, you know, they just didn't they felt like we was too country. They wouldn't play our records. You know, I go to them and records you know i go to them and you know plead with them you know do this do that and it came to a situation where i stopped asking you know what i mean i stopped asking and i had to figure out a way to uh run them out of my city yeah just it's point blank you know yeah and uh that's what brought about change in houston is you know because my thing was give us a chance if the people don't like us then that's acceptable but not giving us a chance and you know playing new york music and acting like

as if we not in part of know, our people not special. You know, we can't have that. Well, the Ghetto Boys sound was so aggressive and so good. And it put Fifth Ward on the map. I mean, people started talking about Fifth Ward after the Ghetto Boys came out. And when, like, we can't be stopped and do it like a G.O. Like, there were songs that were undeniable. They were undeniable they were undeniable yeah and it just like everybody was like i don't give a fuck what you say that's that's a good goddamn record right now it's like it just was undeniable

yeah being undeniable at the end of the day and i i think that's also what's happened with you with these the young cops that appreciate and respect you now it's like it's undeniable yeah over time yeah your true nature gets exposed you know you can get slandered and attacked and they go after you and try to arrest you and all these different things but you survived all that right and over time your true nature is exposed yeah yeah we wrote this song the ghetto boy song called we can't be stopped. Yeah. And I think we named the album. We can't be stopped. Yeah. And that's because we was going through that struggle, you know what I mean? With all the enemies trying to stop us, they was doing all kinds of things to try and stop us. And, you know, we were in a mind frame and like-minded,

you know, sometimes I think i made their heart uh skip a beat with some of the decisions i made but um at the end of the day when they saw fruit bear for taking their stand then they became more of a believer where that was the concern every army needs a great general yeah yeah and sometimes those decisions have to be made true well it all worked out clearly you know i mean it really did when you look back on on your legacy i mean obviously you look to the future um and you continue to to move forward but as you look back you've got to be happy with what you've done particularly with uh with with the rap industry. Oh yeah, most definitely. I'm very proud of where the South stand today.

One of my favorite quotes a lot of times, and you kind of get under the skin of my East Coast and West Coast homies, but I tell them, the East Coast a piece of bread, the West Coast a piece of bread, and down South we the meat. Y'all can't

have a sandwich without us it's so funny to me how people just get so caught up in east coast and west coast because it really only happened in rap it never happened with rock and roll right you know it never happened with sports i mean it did a little bit with sports in some teams but with the big thing with with rap music was always East Coast versus West Coast until you guys came around. Right, yeah. I'm, like, really familiar with that beef.

I wrote about it in my book of how me and Puffy, you know, had a meeting, and they wanted me to mediate a meeting where him and Suge was concerned. You know, that was after Tupac and all of these people, you know, had got killed. And it was something that I wanted to do, but I couldn't really get, you know, between it because, you know, things just didn't add up properly. between it because you know things just didn't add up properly and i don't believe in stepping in between something when i don't have all the information yeah that's got to be extremely difficult right you were in the middle of like a legitimate war where two of the all-time greats yeah were murdered yeah i was asked to uh be in the middle of it and and um after tupac was murdered uh one of the things i done was i heard puffy and biggie was in la shooting

a video so i was on my tour bus and i turned it all the way around i think i was close to phoenix and i turned it around just to go and have a conversation with biggie and puffy to alert them that they were in a place that i didn't feel that they should have been in and you know i went there and had a conversation with both of them just to kind of put them on notice that you, this ain't the place to be right now. And that was before Biggie was killed? Yeah. How long before it was?

I think a few weeks. I think a few weeks before. And, you know, sometimes, and I know Puffy meant well, and I know Biggie mean well, but sometimes a lot of individuals are what I call surface deep, where the streets are concerned, which simply means you understand them to a certain depth. You know what I mean? But I understood that that wasn't definitely L.A. That wasn't a good place to be because my ears was to the street.

And, you know, I just wanted to echo it it was on my spirit to to let them know and i did and uh unfortunately you know it didn't save him but everybody can learn from those mistakes moving forward yeah it's a devastating loss the both of them yeah i mean what they left behind you know to this day yeah if you got a mount rushmore of hip-hop those two dudes are on there right there's no no doubt about it oh yeah two brilliant guys brilliant yeah there's a video of biggie on the street that i watch all the time when he was 17 years old a piece of paper in his hand was lyrics yeah rapping his ass off 17 years old yeah it's incredible when you watch the video he's like what talent yeah what power

that dude had yeah just vocal power you know yeah and Tupac was the same way I mean them guys man you know two geniuses yeah you know that never really fully came to fruition that's the saddest thing about true genius if you look at all the people whether it's hendrix or jim morrison or tupac or biggie they all died young man yeah janice joplin we got this we still to this day can go back and look at their stuff but they all died young it's true yeah that's true it's a weird world we live in my friend oh yeah but i think that the world gets less weird when when someone like you is made through all the hoops and ladders and gotten to a point where you can kind of let people know what you've been through.

Right. Right. I think it's very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. No, it definitely is. I'm what one would call a testimony. I'm what one would call a testimony.

Yeah. And, you know, I try to be a voice of inspiration and hope for my beginning with my community. You know what I mean? I'm a person that, you know, stay in contact with where my community is concerned. You know, that's why I built the recreation center, the boxing gym, a school, you know, because I never wanted to be one of those people that disowned where I was from. And that's what law enforcement was trying to get me to do. You know, I would have conversations with them guys

when they would stop me and pull me over. Why don't you just leave? You made it. Why do you come you know what i mean in other words go away you know and they had a problem with me uplifting you know it's an interesting thing when you may they would see a guy that was on the corner selling drugs uh transition to hip-hop whether it was from rapping or working through hip-hop, whether it was from rapping or working through hip-hop.

And now that guy is driving a Mercedes. Now he's driving something totally different. And that would anger a lot of the officers who wasn't getting paid that kind of money. So he become like a big target from what he done in the past. They never let that go. Yeah, that's that envy of being a police officer that's getting paid a shitty salary. Watching some dude who you know used to

break the law. Yeah. Now he's balling out of control. It's a cold thing, man. It's a cold thing? And they hate that, man they like recognize the limitations of your profession yeah you can't they be like you can't change you're doing the same thing there's no way you can change there's no way i'm gonna allow you to change if i can help it that's

an anti-human sentiment yeah that a person can't change that's's one of the worst things you can say to a person. Because all of us are inspired by people who do change. Yeah. And what's even worse is locking a man up so long where you don't give him an opportunity to change. Because it's a lot of brothers that evolve behind walls. You know what I mean? And it's way less years than they have to serve they actually get it and snap into okay i got it now i got the i got the message i got the lesson yeah and uh

you know the way this system is built is is really unforgiving you know and you know like the brother you know our brother larry ho Hoover right now, for example. He's a brother that I know has changed inside. But whether they want to give him the opportunity to be free and execute the wisdom and the change that has taken place in him and a lot of other political prisoners. in him and a lot of other political prisoners you know i think the system is uh is just it's crazy that it's so unforgiving it's not just unforgiving it's it's thoughtless there's no thought put into rehabilitating this the the amount of people that get actually rehabilitated in prison yeah is minuscule and it's usually through self-determination like they decide that they're going to rehabilitate themselves the comprehensive program of changing a person educating them as to what happened to them and how they can benefit society if they can get through this right now they could teach other people that have also fallen in the same pitfalls hey you can get

through this too like you don't have to be who you are right now. Who you are right now is who you are because of circumstance and because of life and bad luck and bad decisions, but that doesn't mean that's who you are forever. There's no rehabilitation. The real effort to rehabilitate people is non-existent. There's some people that get rehabilitated through prison, whether it's through the negative reinforcement of they never want to be locked up in a cage again, or through other people that they meet inside the jail or through books they read inside the jail. But there's no real comprehensive effort to change people and help people and educate people. The thought of being lost and hopeless. Then the idea that a person can't change

that's the most non-human idea ever because the best people all change when when you're young you hopefully the foolish shit that you do when you're 10 you're not going to do when you're 20 the dumb shit you do when you're 20 you're not going to do when you're 30 you're going to learn from every step of the way you would everyone changes oh yeah the driving force behind that is racism you know what i mean it was the same with the slaves you know they didn't they never wanted to teach them they never wanted to see them evolve they only wanted them to be a slave and you know to me that's the mechanism of the system right now where, you know, the inmates, a lot of them, are concerned. Of course, you know, there are some that, you know, may deserve different things,

but this thing where drugs is concerned, this whole nonviolent situation that they got going on is as racist as it get it's disgusting yeah imagine a a university where no one graduated any smarter wow it wouldn't exist they wouldn't allow it to happen it wouldn't exist yeah so there's got to be a thought in your head that a prison system where almost no one graduates leaves rehabilitated that's that's that's a that's a hell of an analogy you just gave you know what i mean a university where no one evolved that got smarter it's you would say okay whoever set this shit up you fucked up this is terrible this is poorly designed terribly executed and you would look at the motivations like who's

you guys making money off of this and no one is getting are you really protecting society by making people better criminals locking them up for 10 years then releasing them again are you really i don't think you are i think you failed yeah the whole system is a failure yeah yeah true statement yeah and and where the colleges are concerned they never would allow that because that's their loved ones yes you know what i mean that's the difference right yeah that is the difference right yeah. It's weird, because criminal justice reform just gets sort of like cursory mentioned by politicians. It's a cold game they got going on, man. And that's what, you know, one of the reasons I call myself a republicrat.

You know what I mean it's hard for me to just jump on a bandwagon when I see these different mixed signals going on where you know my people are concerned you know and I be looking for one that will

stand up and not twist when he walk you know what I mean stand up and be a real man and you know authentic with the movement and it's hard to to see them people in this game that I watch you know it's just it's hard it's always you know some some some some things going on that's under the radar there's so many influences by the time these people get into any position of power they're so compromised that they gotta kind of follow the steps that are laid out for them no one really ever says hey look at this let's look at this

and let's lay it out because this is a terrible terrible place this is a terrible scenario we have a criminal justice it's terrible look let's look at how many people that are wrongfully convicted let's how many how many people that are executed were innocent let's look at how many people that have been railroaded by corrupt prosecuting attorneys look at how many people who've been just stuck in jail for no fault of their own. It's crazy. No, it's a lot of them. And it's crazy that a guy like you who gets through.

But it's beautiful that now you're celebrated. But it makes sense. I mean, in their little game of trying to arrest people, like this dude's still going to the hood, even though now he's wealthy and successful why is he still doing that he's setting up these community centers and boxing gyms the fuck out of here he's trying to make some money he's doing something he's laundering money yeah and they have this cynical perspective instead of having that perspective like that guy we should have him talk to other kids we We should let everybody know, like, this is possible.

Everybody who is down on their luck, who's not doing well, is in a bad situation, you can look to the people that escaped and then profited and thrived and became incredibly successful. That should be your motivation. That should be your blueprint. You don't know it is. And their blueprint, a lot of the times, is just like you say, let's figure out how to destroy him. Let's let go every three-letter word, you know, R-S-D-V-D-A-F-B-I-P-H-C-I-A.

All of them. Let's let them loose on him to see if they can put something together to destroy him. Especially when you become real profitable yeah especially when you're rolling around a beautiful cars living in a beautiful house and what why the owl you have this beautiful owl chain why this is this is Drake yeah okay yeah this is Drake you know my son discovered Drake so really yeah my son jazz prince wow we brought Drake to the United States and uh that's how he got started well that makes sense yeah why is Drake in the owls well I think owls is a powerful symbol you know what I mean it's a lot of strength where

owls are concerned you know I like eagles I like eagles too you know but you know these i mean it's a lot of strength where owls are concerned you know i like eagles i like eagles too you know but you know these owls are pretty badass and they fuck people up at night you know they fuck up birds at night one of my favorite videos of these hawks sitting in a nest at night this owl swoops in out of the darkness and snatches one of them yeah yeah no they're cold-blooded at night. Yeah, we have this idea about them that they're like these wise creatures that are like, you know, thoughtfully looking over the land. No, they're out there fucking up rabbits and killing everything they can. Owls are vicious, man.

They are. Vicious predators. Yeah. And Drake, you know, this is his brand. You know, maybe I can get him to explain to you what's really behind this house. Bring him in. I'd love to talk to him. Listen, brother, I appreciate you very much, man.

And I want everybody to know that the Art and Science of Respect is out right now. You can get it. You can get it in book form. You can get it in audio form. Loyalty, your wine, this Cabernet is fantastic. It's delicious. And I can't wait to try your champagne and your Merlot. And thanks for coming in here, man.

I appreciate it, bro. Thank you very much, brother. Thank you. Goodbye, everybody.