The Joe Rogan Experience - #1584 - Todd White

Episode Date: December 26, 2020

Todd White is a fourth-degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and an instructor at Jean Jacques Machado Austin. Check out his art at https://www.toddwhite.com/ and @artofwhite on Instagram.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day how are you what's up buddy dude you're one of the reasons why i'm here i remember you told me multiple years ago like how many years ago did you move here i moved here seven years ago and you were telling me how fucking great it is. I remember running into you. You're like, dude, it's fucking great. I love it. I'm like, man, I don't know.

You said my wife would never move there. That's what you said. We were at the Commons in Marmalade. Yeah, in Calabasas. Yeah, in Calabasas. Yeah. Well, dude, I've known you for, what, fucking 20 years? Yeah.

I probably met you in like 2000-ish or something like that. Maybe before. The day you walked into John Jock's, I was on the mat and we were rolling. And you came walking in. And I was a fan of your first show you ever did. And I saw you and I go, oh shit, that's Joe Rogan. And my friend says, who's that? I go, he's on a show.

He's on news radio. And he goes, I don't know who that is. And go he's the he's the uh handyman handyman he's a mechanic he's always running around with this toolbox and he goes i don't know who he is and i go okay well and then that was the first time i saw you and you came in that's like 98 dude yeah that was about that was about yeah it was a white belt and yeah john jock spot and tarzana yeah i saw i saw the uh i was working at uh warner brothers uh tiny tune adventures and i was uh i was a i was a pa production assistant at that time it was the first job i ever had in la and that guy says uh hey we're gonna have a party tonight we're gonna watch these fights they're like cock fights come on over and let's watch them and i

went over to his house and i was literally hypnotized watching Hoyce Gracie do what he did. I couldn't believe it. Everybody else was talking. Their first day of UFC? The very first, the first UFC. It was the first one. Wow. So you watched the first one live?

Yeah. I saw it at a party that I was not supposed to be at. And nobody else was paying attention to this. It was just on. It was like two other guys watching it. And I'm watching this going, I gotta do that. Like it was speaking to me in a way I've never,

you know, like art speaks to me and I was watching it. And the next day I find Torrance Gracie Academy because they kept saying Torrance Gracie and I knew where Torrance was. So I was living in Studio City in the Valley. I drove. I had a Honda Prelude. I drove all the way on the 405, the worst freeway in the world. And it took me about three hours to get down there on a Saturday morning. And I walked into

that place and they were done. But I could smell all that sweat and humidity and nastiness. And I was like, oh God, this is great. And I walked in and they were very nice to me, but there was like these dudes and they looked so intimidating and they were just ripped up and clawed up and dripping wet. And this wasn't the pretty days where everybody has rash guards and designer geese. This was like Krugan's geese. They were yellowed and nasty smelling and there was chest hair in your mouth. I remember Krugens. And they came walking out. And I was just like, I felt like a little bitch.

I was just looking at him going, I want to be you. And he goes, where are you from? And I go, oh, the Valley. The Valley? This is too far, my friend. And he goes, my cousin, John Jock, is in the Valley. The Machados go there. And I was kind of struck in in awe by everything, right?

So I thought, okay, I'll go to the valley, you know? And there was no internet. Understand, there's no internet. You can't just Google. So I got the Thomas guide out and I started looking around and I would ask people. And so nobody knew the answer to this. Because remember, as you know, in the early days, Brazilian jujitsu was like, oh, you do that karate stuff?

Yeah. And so I got on my mountain bike. i was a heavy mountain biker then and i got on my bike and i was in studio city and i decided to ride ventura boulevard and i'm gonna look at every shop on ventura boulevard and i was driving i got all the way down to encino and uh and just and i see this jiu-jitsu right and i, that's it. I walk in and this little kind of chubby round guy comes walking up and is tucked into his gi. And he goes, how can I help you? And I go, I'm looking to do that ground fighting stuff. And he goes, yeah, we do that here. And I go, okay, sign up. And so I signed up and I'm there a week and I'm there every day. And not once are we on the ground. We're doing this standup, small circle stuff. And I'm looking at my classmates and

they're all horribly out of shape and they can barely move. And I'm thinking, God, this isn't what I saw. What was the place? It was like Mushinru Jiu-Jitsu, right? But I was so out of my head trying to find it. And so i'm there a week and he's like hey congratulations you get a belt and i'm like i hardly know anything and so he gives me this belt and i'm working out this one guy and he says hey i think what you want is the machados and i was like where am i he goes this isn't it dude i'm like in the wrong movie. And so I go, okay. He goes, that's down the road, dude. Like four stores, four shops, four shops short. Right? So I literally at class, I'm like hurrying up and I'm like, I gotta go. And I walked down there and I see them. And it was, this is on Ventura

Boulevard. He wasn't at his place in Tarzana yet. He was getting ready to move that week. And I walk in and it was a place as big as this studio. I'm not kidding. And he goes, you know, John Jack spoke very poorly English back then. And he was like,

oh, hello, hello. And I'm like, sign. I sign up now, you know. So I signed up and I started going to him. But I had made

like two friends. When I went to LA, I didn't have any friends because I was there to work and become my goal. And so I was still talking to these guys and still going to the other place and the time worked out where he was early and I would leave and go next door

to John Jock right so I was there about another week and we're just doing drills at John Jock we're doing armbar drills over and over again from our back from open guard drills and I would go home and I would draw it in my book I had a sketchbook of everything so everything we learned I would draw it and I would draw it in my book. I had a sketchbook of everything. So everything we learned, I would draw it

and I was an animator for a long time. So I could animate the movements and I could see in rolling where we would end up. So if we start here and I did this, this, and this, I knew we would end up over here in this position. In my mind, it was easy because I had animated. So I would see rolling like cartoons and they would just kind of roll into it.

And so it came very – I wasn't a wrestler, but it came pretty natural to me, the movements, right? And so a week later, the guy at the Mushinru Jiu-Jitsu place was telling me, oh, you got to do this. And I go, but if you did that, you'd get stuck in an armbar because he's having me like choke like reach up and he goes no you can't get an armbar from there and i go i think i think you can he's like you're not gonna do it and so i i go well watch and he got in my guard and he like he did his little chest slap thing you know those little like and and he like stuck his arm out what is the little chest yeah you know

how that they like get ready to fight and they're like you know they do their poses and he did that in my guard and it was weird and everybody's watching right and they're standing there watching the instructor tell me i didn't know what i was doing and he did that and he stuck his arm out and i grabbed his arm and i pulled it in and I threw my legs over his face and I unbarred him. And he got real pissed off. And he goes, he got up and he was really perturbed. And he goes, that wouldn't work in real time. That only worked because I was letting you get there. And I was scared. And I go, I think it would work, man. I think it would work. And remember, I had two friends now, right? My two guy friends, right? Right. I think it would work. And they were going, and I hear one of them go, oh, no, it worked. And I'm looking around him, and he's getting kind of pissed.

I mean, he's a short guy, but he's real stock. And he goes, look, I'm tired of hearing about this Brazilian jiu-jitsu. So I tell you what. You use your jiu-jitsu, which, by the way, I had had like two weeks of training. Now, granted, i was there every day with john jock like doing drills so you know if you got one movement that you do a hundred times you're gonna have an inkling of how to do it what year is this bro so you're talking about 94 right after the first ufc maybe like 93 two months after the first uf Oh, so the 93? Yeah, 93. Damn, you were ahead of the curve.

So I'm sitting there and I go, okay, I think it'll work, dude. Now, I don't know anything about standing, right? So he gets up and he goes, okay, I'm going to attack you and you attack me. And I'm like, I don't know how to attack you. So he goes, ready. And like all of a sudden I'm in a video game. I'm standing there. So what do I do?

I copy what I saw Hoist Gracie do. I stick my arms up like the karate kid and I stick my foot in front. And he fucking starts like coming at me with his elbows and swinging. And he looks like a little machine. And I just took my foot and kicked him in the front leg. His leg goes down. He lands on me. We fall into the guard.

He starts hitting me with his elbow on the top of the head, right? I goes down. He lands on me. We fall into the guard. He starts hitting me with his elbow on the top of the head, right? Like I grabbed him. I clenched him. I squeezed him really tight, mostly so I didn't get punched in the face because I was afraid. And I took my head in his chest and he's hitting me on the top of the head. And I'm like, and that heat comes up your back from your butthole to your neck. And you go, you motherfucker, you're hitting me now. And I go, okay, all right. All right. Now we're in a go hey you motherfucker you're hitting me now and i go okay all right all right now we're in a new league now you're not my friend now you're fighting me and i literally just kind of monkey shimmied up his high guard and i just threw him in an

armbar and i cranked as hard as i could on that arm and he screams okay wow and i get up right and i'm like you got that blood rush i'm like hair messed up you motherfucker okay and i i and i grab my bag i grab my bag my little fucking goofy bag i grab it and i walk out right i'm like i don't know what to do i'm like flustered i walk out and the two dudes come running out after me. They're like, bro, bro, I'm coming with you. Where are you going? Where's that school at? And they came and they fucking trained all the way to Purple Belt.

Both those guys. Who were the guys? It was Jim LaHan, the wood carpenter guy, and a guy named Seth. I don't even remember his last name. They both trained all the way through Purple before they kind of faded away. Man, you fade away when you're at Purple. That's such a shame. You're so close. As an instructor now, it crushes me when i give a blue belt to someone and then i see them fade and i'm thinking god dude you got past the hardest you're a color

yeah the greatest belt you can get is blue yeah i say that it's to this day and i'm fourth black blue because you're a color you're not the white anymore you're in the club you're in dude the day john jock gave me a blue belt was like one of the greatest days of my life the day john jock gave me my purple belt i was like oh my god i'm close i'm so close to brown purple is a danger purple belts tap people so i remember seeing a lot of purple belts that could tap brown bells oh yeah purple belts that were dangerous they had like Oh, yeah. Purple belts that were dangerous. They had one really good move. Oh, yeah.

Here's my take on purples. They're just crazy enough to try anything, and they're not worried about getting got. Especially those purple belts that train every day. That's obscene. Those psycho purple belts. Yeah. Yeah. They can be, I mean, they're so close to, they're closer to a black belt at that point

than they were further from it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I trained with this purple belt. One of the last times I trained, this guy was a surfer at John Jock school in Malibu. And I remember we were just fucking going to war. I was like, Jesus, this guy is so good for a purple belt.

He's like close. They're close. They just, they're off on a few things. They don't know all the escapes. They don't know where they're going. There's just a few things they're off on. the escapes they don't know where their vote there's just a few things they're off on but the shit that he was good i was like whoa this feels dangerous yeah i know what what drives me crazy as an instructor now and owning a school is you know there was a long period of time where we could be lazy and rest on what we knew right and you'd get

a guy from another school or someone come in and he's a blue belt or even a purple it was like oh yeah let's roll and they run right to you right yeah you rolling today let's roll and i'm like yeah okay let's roll and and you're like you go into this it's a you lull yourself into a mistake where you go i'm just gonna like defend and lay be lazy and i'm gonna roll here because i don't feel like rolling and you're rolling with them and all of a sudden in your mind you're like, oh, shit, they're a little more than I anticipated. Oh, shit, they're amped up and bringing it. And you're like, dude, I just ate two donuts. And I'm like thinking about my –

You know what would drive me the most crazy? When a guy would sit on the sidelines and wait. You roll with three or four people and then jump up. You go, you want to roll? Like, UFC fighters do that. You're like, come on, man. Come on, dude. Yeah, you've been waiting.

You're sitting here waiting for everybody to get tired. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Dude, I remember when you lost your job at Nickelodeon. We were in the parking lot of John Jock's. And this is like, what year was that? That had been, you know what? It had been 98 yeah 98 because i had a house i just bought a townhome in valencia yeah and we were talking you're like fuck i don't

know what to do yeah like i'm thinking you know but just like just you know working on my art i remember that conversation man and then i remember like years later you're balling out of control in your arts and galleries. And I had a friend. And I went over his house. And he had one of your fucking paintings above his kitchen table. I was like, holy shit, that's Todd White's painting. He's like, you know that guy? I go, I do jujitsu with him.

I'm like, wow. He goes, yeah, he's really talented. He's really good. It was like one of those cocktail party paintings. But I remember thinking, this is nuts, man. I'm at someone else's house. And Todd white's painting is above his fucking kitchen table it was wild i love that but i was telling you the other day or

just earlier today rather that um sure the restaurant out here yeah i go in had no idea i just go in me and my wife around date night we walk in and i'm like this fucking todd white's paintings are everywhere yeah thank you it's. Well, your style is so distinctive. You know, I can see your style. Either someone's ripping you off or it's you. So when I walked in there, I'm like, I'm 99% sure this is Todd White or some Todd White copier. So, you know, I had 13 years in animation.

I came out of high school. I got a job at Warner Brothers as a production assistant on the first season of Tiny Toons. But what I did is I just, I looked at every super talented artist, every draftsman, and I would ask questions and I was drawing every day.

I had no social life and they would give me such great advice. So I looked at it, that's my college because I didn't go to school. My mom was a painter. So I grew up in a painting household. Her mom was as well. And I just looked at it, that's my college because I didn't go to school. My mom was a painter, so I grew up in a painting household. Her mom was as well.

And I just looked at it as I'm going to educate myself through the hard work and the grind. And before I knew it, I was just around some of the most talented artists in the industry, and they were showing me techniques and the way to put life into character and a way to give a drawing life, which is the hardest thing, by the way. I look at a lot of paintings, and they may be technically great, but there's no life.

They're dead-looking. The eyes are dead. It's a dead-looking painting. And so I learned through super talented artists to teach me how to put that kind of personality and life into the drawing and then translate that into the painting and uh i was always obsessed with the rat pack and sinatra and dean martin and sammy davis jr

and i just i would i had vhs tapes of them at the summit and everything and i used to watch them all the time and try they looked like they were having so much fun god men were men and women were dames and they had the drinks and the cigarettes and they were blowing smoke in each other's face and they weren't worried about masks it was just amazing time and and uh women were dames i loved it you know dames is such a great word and so uh so i just kind of i wanted to capture that in painting and i wanted to i want to kind of bring some of that timelessness back and uh and you know i would uh i was really good with marker work, marker color comps in animation. Because I quickly, after that, I became a character designer.

And so I spent the next, you know, 10 years in animation designing characters for shows. And I ended on SpongeBob. And that was like Steve Hillenburg. A lot of my friends from the previous show said, hey, we're going over to Nickelodeon. They've got this new show. They're working on some pilot SpongeBob. And they need a character guy. And I met with Steven. And he said, hey, we're going over to Nickelodeon. They've got this new show. They're working on some pilot, SpongeBob, and they need a character guy. And I met with Steven, and he said,

he gave me marine biology books. He's like, here, make these characters. And I went home. A marine biology book? Yeah, he was a marine biologist. Really? He went to CalArts. He wasn't the best draftsman, but he had good ideas.

And he was a really cool dude and a surfer. So why marine biology? Because it was all about underwater life. I don't know if you've ever seen the show. Well, I've seen it a few times with my kids. I never really paid attention. Yeah, it's just like fish. I didn't know it was underwater.

Yeah. It's all fish life. Bubble Guppies is underwater. I don't know what that is. I actually can't stand watching. You don't watch that with your kids? I don't. The kids have so many shows going on, and they're all so horrible to watch.

So I don't stare at any of them. Yeah, Bubble Guppies was my daughter's favorite show for like two years. Your style, go to his website and pull up some of the, or pull some of the images of it. Are they all like this? Do you do other kinds of styles, or is it most of your work like cocktail so party i i view my work as uh it's all personality and relatable so in my mind uh i'm gonna i'm not painting art for your furniture or your living room i'm not painting something you want to put in your living room i'm painting something that you want that you identify with and uh i think a lot of people what do you mean by that like if it's not for the living room like where is if you identify yeah it's put it wherever you identify put it where you identify see

yourself in it you see yourself you see your boys weekend at vegas that time you had the greatest time ever the women had girls night out and they see their new stuff but it's also like instagram at all no that's gonna have my newest stuff cartoonish oh okay i hate that word what cartoonish cartoonish yeah really yeah what's a good word character character but no one's gonna know what you're saying i know i know people so there you go there's some new stuff right there that's like the foxes and um you know so i always want to represent someone's life i want them to see their life life. I want them to see their life in it. I want them to see their personality in there. Can I go back to that picture again? Chasing foxes.

The blonde, like from the left-hand side, the third one, she looks like a bitch. Oh, good. Good, because in a group of four. She looks like the mean one. Yep, in a group of four, that's what you're going to have. Fuck him. See, everyone has their own attitude. Everyone has their own attitude.

Everyone has their own personality. Like out of those three? You know why? She gets everything she wants, doesn't she? I like the girl on the far left. The one in the white, that's my kind of girl. There you go. She's soft.

She seems like she's happy. She's soft. That one, you got to work for that one that's holding that wine glass too low. She's just too much work. What do we like? We like the thrill of the hunt, not the thrill of the kill. No, I like nice people. I get my thrills in other places i don't want them

in relationships a lot of people they look for conflict in relationships i just look for nice people man i like the one i lucked out yeah you got lucky i did too i like the one in the white that's my kind of girl but that one that one with the low wine glass i tell my friends bro please please don't bring that house sugar shack so those, I have no problem with any of those girls. They're fine. Those are fine girls. But I think the one that Jamie's got the cursor over, she's going to be the most problems. She's going to overdose at your house.

But see, what are we doing? We're having conversations about stupid art, right? So art should be a conversation piece. The one on the far right, she's going to fuck your friends. My friends. You're going to go on vacation. My clients. She's going to text your friend, can you help me move? And then she's going to fuck your friends. My friends. You're going to go on vacation. My clients. She's going to text your friend, can you help me move?

And then she's going to fuck all your friends. Yeah, so it should be a conversation piece. You should have it in an area where friends come over and they go, what's going on here? And it represents you. It represents your personality. They say, well, this is how we love our life. But I know you got to a point where you were like really in demand. Like I remember I was talking to Eddie about it and he was like god todd is so busy like he's like constantly working does it does it ever

get to a point where it seemed like labor or like it does a dope hendrick shirt son what you got there hidden by your gay bandana i'm sorry it's not covid it's more like uh ranchers bandana there you go we're in tex. Yeah. If it was gay, it would have sequins in it or something. I like that. That's a dope shirt. You can have it. Really?

I'll give it to you. Well, you already gave me this shirt. One of the coolest shows I ever did. I have the greatest fans of any artist, period, living. They're awesome people, and they show up in droves. And we were doing a show one time, and this client in England came up,

and he goes, and I said, dude, that's the greatest jacket I've ever seen. And he goes, you like it? I go, yeah. And he goes, it's yours. And I go, I'm not going to take your jacket. And in my mind I go, I'm taking his jacket. He goes, he goes, no man, try it on. If it fits you, it's yours. And I thought, that's a fair, fair.

I try it on. I'm like, Oh, perfect. He goes, I've had to fix it. He goes, it's yours. Wow. Thank you. And the cool thing is about 10 years later, I was in Toronto doing a show. And a kid came up, an artist kid. And he showed me his work briefly, which I find a bit hard to look at people's work in the middle of my show. And I'm like, oh, that's awesome, dude. And he goes, man, that's a great jacket. And I go, he was about my size.

I go, hey, see if this fits you. And it fit him. And I go, it's yours. Wow. And he was like over the moon. He goes, i can't believe it and then and then other people were like dude i just bought fucking the $60,000 painting you gave him a jacket like hey come on man you just gotta go with the pay forward pay forward you gotta go with the flow but did you ever get to a point where you know because you were painting

so much i mean you have a lot you like like had requirements, right? I mean, was it, was it ever where it felt like work? No, it was always, uh, I never, uh, unless it was a commission, I was being commissioned by someone to do something. I painted what I wanted, how I wanted it. And, uh, every day was exciting to me because my painting started as a story. I have a story in my mind first and I have, I come up with titles and names and sometimes you'll be coming back to the Instagram page. You'll have a conversation with something and and i'll hear something any one of those

pick and it's a different all right what's the story of the lady with the what's the story with the dude jumping up in the air is that eddie van halen dude thank you sorry miss you buddy wow that's a great story my story my childhood right there 1984 riding a school bus to school and people playing jump in the back of it on a cassette boombox dude that was history man my high school too brought a sad tear to my eye when i heard that i was like oh i've become friends with david lee roth and it's one of the weirdest things ever because when i was in high school that guy was the shit god it was a god i'm eating dinner with him in vegas and we're laughing and having a good time and i'm like this is so strange dude you have the best friends with david lee rock having

dinner with him or cutting up steaks and having a bunch of laughs and at some point in your mind just to be joe for a second you have to go you know you're having the conversations you have such great conversations with people and and you're like, God damn, this is awesome. It's weird. It seems weird. It's surreal. Oh, beyond. Because here you lived, in a way, you've lived two lives.

You had the first portion of your life, which was a youth struggle adult. You know, you're trying to get to your goals and make your dreams happen. And it's a work in progress. But all this stuff is going on around you. Music's happening. Movies happening. And you're paying attention to it lightly and and now you're at a different part of your life where you're almost the ringleader of things and it's your circus master and and these people are coming into you and you're sitting across from like

james hetfield and you're just having conversations and you're like dude my god you got me through high school dude right the lightning got me through you know and it's got to be like such a personal inside reward to go god damn this is awesome well i i without a doubt feel super super fortunate in the weirdest way like like what did i do in a past life to deserve this but another way it's um it's uh it's alien it's it's both i feel both fortunate and i also feel like like how is this real like how am i how am i like when i'm sitting across from you know anyone that named the person like name even tyler yeah steven tyler the fact that steven tyler knows my fucking name everybody he came to see me in vegas so i'm hanging out with him after my show i know i'm like this is so fucking weird but but you got your foot in the door and then you earn the room so it's not like

i mean you're really good at it so it's not like you're it's not like you're flying by the seat of your pants it's like it's so that's so easy good it's good to listen to it's smooth that's all well and good but it still feels bizarre it's got like because i mean i don't i'm not panicking when i'm talking to no but i but it is there's parts of the time where he's talking i'm like that's steven tyler i know he's right there i could touch him i could touch i could grab iron man and throw him to the ground right now robert downey jimmy where's your iron man now bitch he's actually a martial artist he's really in a wink chunk yeah yeah like that would be good i'm sure i'll get fucking hate mail on that it's so true though it's so true those kung

fu dudes they never let it go ever so well you got a lot of uh the day of the dead type so during well that you're just catching september through uh november 2nd that's my little shtick i do uh september 1st through november 2nd I do nothing but Day of the Dead. The best part is when I was over in England touring, they said, what is this Halloween stuff? Why do you got a butt?

Why not? That was a commission. Somebody wanted you to make a butt. That's my collector. Hired me to paint his wife like that. Oh, wow. Did he give you a picture or did she stand there?

No, no. He sent photos. So I won't paint nudes of people's wives. Like, don't send me nudes, I always say,, he sent photos. So I won't paint nudes of people's wives. Like, don't send me nudes, I always say, but there's Meg. So I said, hey, my wife says, hey, you got a commission to do.

It's a guy that owns a pretty big strip club chain. And I go, yeah. He goes, yeah, he wants you to paint his wife. And he gave me a story. He met her when he was 18, yanked her right off stage and married her. And she's part of the empire now. And so he sent me a bunch of photos.

And she's 40 now. And she was unbelievable, right? Like, god damn. And so I did the painting of her, you know, in a bustier. And I sent it back to him. And my wife says, hey, you got a letter back from them. I got good news and bad news. I thought, oh, shit, bad news.

I don't like hearing that. And she goes, I go, what's the good news first? And she goes, oh, the good news is they love the painting. It's hanging in their bedroom. They say it's the centerpiece. They just think it's the greatest thing ever. I go, well, what's the bad news? He said, if you're ever in New Orleans, New York, or San Francisco again, contact them. You're going to have the greatest night of your life. And I said, that's the bad news? She goes, yeah, you're never going there by yourself again oh yeah fair enough fair enough who's the girl in the lower corner with the glasses that's just a just a girl dirty little floozy my brand new pistol

dirty little floozy just a little scallywag is she a dame no no is that a dame what is a dame versus a floozy dude a dame is a girl who holds her own in a court of men. She can just hold it, right? You watch those old classic movies, and they give it back to you. I like that. So my paintings of women, they're not – they may be sexual looking, but they have their own thing going. They have their own agenda.

They're strong. They're not these weak – they're not just pinups. Yeah, they seem aggressive. They have a game plan. And that comes from the cesspool of la and wallowing in that mire and being around that that so much that you couldn't meet a nice innocent girl because they all had a game plan there was they were after something what whether it was status whether it was uh money or whether it was like to get on a show, which, you know, I'll never fault people for going to a place to try to achieve a dream.

Yeah. But at some point, at some point, it's like that's not happening. You know what's the most depressing thing in L.A. when you're meeting people is the people that you think are pretty cool, but then you realize along the way that what they're really doing is being friendly so that they can sort of network. Of course. Yeah. It's a. Of course. Yeah. It's a town of that.

Yeah. It's hard to filter. I mean, I've been friends with people for 15 years. I had dudes that I thought were my bros. We're in foxholes together. And, and you know,

my wife is, she's gotta be a bit psychic. Cause she says that guy's going to stab you in the back. And I'm like, get out of here. That's never going to happen. And then the right opportunity comes along and they jump ship and they're just like, bang. And you're like, God damn, she was right.

Stab you in the back, how so? You know, like what you said, riding coattails, you have a career going, you're doing your thing. And all of a sudden they're like, hey, I want to get in on that. And it's like, yeah, but you sold insurance and now you're an art guy. And it's like, what?

And they just fucking jump on you. And it just, you know, they try to. It is the weirdest thing when someone wants to be a part of your business. Yeah. Hey, let me pitch you something. Oh. You're like, oh, no. Because then you realize they're looking at you as an opportunity for income.

You're an object. And you're, yeah. What's more discouraging for me is people who think, well, you're doing that. I can do that and I'm like what do you mean by that that's hilarious and they go well you know I can do that I can paint that way and it's like well then do it you know and see how

far it gets you you know because it's not only one thing it's everything it's the work the labor the drive you have and I'll take drive any day over talent because the harder you drive something, you can get to that talent level. I completely agree with that. I always tell people,

like stand-up is a perfect example because a lot of people are funny. A lot of guys are funny hanging out. And they're hanging out with you. And I'm not particularly funny when I'm hanging out. I can just hang out. I'll be funny occasionally if some shit happens or if I have a move.

But I'm not a needy comedian. I don't have to be the guy who's on all the time. Right. That's got to be hard. So sometimes guys will go, I can fucking do comedy. I'm fucking funnier than you. I could do comedy. I'm like, yeah, you could do comedy.

You could do comedy. You definitely could do it. I tell everybody, you could do it. But good luck. Do it over and over again. Be fresh. Good luck understanding what that is you're looking it seems like you're just talking because everybody talks i talk i can be funny i say funny things

sometimes my wife laughs at me like i think i can do it and then go get an idea across in front of people and it seems like you're doing hypnosis is what you're doing. You're doing some weird sort of artistic hypnosis with built-in ideas that spark lights in people's head. And you either can do that or you can't. And even if you can make your friends laugh, doing that on stage in front of people, that shit's going to take forever. You know, people get very accustomed to like saying stuff with their boys or their friends and they get these laughs and they think they're really good but then if you got up on stage and you said something and it dropped dead silent that's gonna hit you and you're gonna be like uh it's gonna throw you like a gut check kick you know and all of a sudden

you're like uh my next thing is you know well. Well, you know, Eddie really got into comedy. Yeah. You know, Eddie took a lot. I forced Eddie on stage, like, in the early 2000s. I forced him on the stage. I'm like, dude, you're funny. You make me laugh all the time. Go do it.

And he did it like eight or nine times where the bombing was too much. He couldn't do it. But then when he started running 10th Planet, when he started teaching, he got way more comfortable talking to people. And he would make the crowd laugh in the gym, you know, When he started teaching, he got way more comfortable talking to people, and he would make the crowd laugh in the gym when he was

teaching classes. And then he eventually was doing seminars, and during seminars, he would have funny stories. And he would do it, and he would be killing. He's like, dude, I was killing at my seminar. I'm thinking about dude stand-up again. I'm like, do it! Fucking do it! And that turned into him actually doing stand-up.

And dude, and he was touring with Sam Tripoli for a while. He was doing really well. Yeah, I saw the Tinfoil Hat group. Yeah, Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theory Podcast. Occasionally talk. Dude, he's funny. Eddie makes me laugh. Like, he really, I knew he could do it.

But it's the pain of doing, but he was like, listen, I'm trying to run a school. I'm trying to compete in Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, you're spending a lot of plates, you know. You can't spend too many plates. Me and my wife are spending so many plates now. It's like we got the Jiu Jitsu school, which is basically a side project that I enjoy doing and a hobby that I've got some awesome instructors helping me with. And then we have our art business, our art publishing business, because I'm self-published.

I don't just turn my work over to a company to produce my work i produce it all when you say produce your clays high-end reproductions uh you know when i do a release it's a limited edition of 35 135 and this is that goes out yeah the prints the high-end reproductions on canvas how does that happen do you do you when you like say if you make a painting like one of these paintings and then you want to turn that into a print right what's the process so you get it scanned. From there, you take it on your computer, and you run it through a big Epson 11880 printer the size of this table. And it prints it out on a canvas, and you've got to color correct everything because the photograph versus the computer talking to the inks, and it's different.

It comes out. You get that right, and then you start doing your run. For me, when I do a limited edition, that's it, it's limited. I don't do more. I don't make a smaller version. This is where artists get in trouble because the publicist will say,

hey, we did 50 of that image we sold out in a day. Let's do 50 more in a smaller size, and let's do 20 more in a smaller size. So now, if you're a you know the the collector who i value the highest in my profession they look at it and they go dude i bought that and then i'm walking down this gallery i see a tiny version of it like it's losing value it's losing its luster it's like you don't have something so special yeah and so when i do an edition of 135 in the world that's it so the uk will buy half out the front

then the canada will pick up 20 and then what's left over is for the u.s why is that why is the uk the the premier market um there they are a de montfort fine art handles me over there and they are a distributor so they can they have their network of galleries they already did here i'm i'm dealing with the galleries my wife deals with them i don't and and she's the business end of it and she's talking to the galleries and dealing we only have like five or six in the united states and uh you know from uh from uh ohio to then northern california so how does that work let's say you have an idea for a painting you make a painting who how do you decide who gets the original who buys it but how do you even put that out so i put it out there on

instagram instagram is it's a it's a strange day in time right now because of covid and shutting down galleries and galleries some galleries are not coming back we're losing mom and pop galleries they're closing down they go enough we're out and out. And, you know, California was such an awesome thriving market. And now it's just dead in the water. It's just all these guys are leaving. Artists are going, what the hell am I going to do? And, uh, so I've lost several galleries and, uh, you know, Instagram is becoming this new, the, the, the Amazon for artists. It's like artists are now looking at Instagram as I'm just going to put my work up there and push myself and they can contact us.

And so that's what happens. I'll post an image and my clients will see it anywhere around the world and they'll contact their gallery. And so they're in England, they'll contact the White Wall Gallery and they'll say, I'd like to, and they'll inquire because my wife will wake up

and in the morning she'll have four or five emails from around the world of, hey, how much is that? So is this on your Instagram page? Like if someone sees one of your paintings, is there a contact information number or email number? So if they're local or if they're in the U.S. or whatever, they usually contact us directly from there, from the Instagram. They'll send a DM or they'll send it to my website, my wife's page, and they'll send it to us.

If they are a collector who's custom to a gallery, they'll contact that gallery. If I've always bought from Kevin in Ohio, they'll buy it from him directly. You know, they'll call him, hey, Kevin, I saw this new piece. And that's what we want. The problem is these galleries are closing down more and more. Because of COVID.

Yeah. And so some of them, they're they're like well my guy's gone so we're just like uh just contact us direct that's fine you know in the uk i send them anybody from the uk we send them right over to white wall galleries anyone in in the canada we send them to this gallery what's getting hit the worst is it united states the uk uk now they have some new strain they're shut down again yeah some new strain. They're shut down again. Yeah. Some new strain that's 70% more contagious. I just, it's just, you know, I got tested by you before I came in here. That was the first time I'd been tested.

I see no point in getting, for me personally, doing, I'm very fit. I train at least one day a week now. Embarrassing to say. I know my body very well and i know when i wake up and something's off and if something's off i'll get checked immediately yeah but to say you know i've heard stories from guys who've rolled friends of mine in california super super athletes and they're like yeah dude i was doing something they said i had covet and i'm like and how did you feel they're like i feel great i feel fine i'd like nothing is wrong with me i didn't know it i don't

have headaches i don't have any of anything there are false negatives yeah and i go dude we are false if you if this is the end all disease and you feel great you're not bleeding out your eyeballs then what like it really depends on the person it It depends on your vulnerabilities. Depends on your age. You know, I had Alex Berenson from the, he's a former journalist from the New York Times, and he wrote a book on COVID with a series of three booklets about all the things that we're doing wrong, particularly the lockdowns.

He's like, these are the worst things you could do because it's also the worst environment for COVID to spread is when people are stuck indoors. He's like, you're actually seeing upticks in the virus during the places with the most lockdowns, like Los Angeles, which has the worst lockdowns and the biggest fucking spread of COVID. It's crazy. But he's adamant about it. It's age-dependent, and it's comorbidity-dependent.

The people that are dying, they have an average dependent and it's comorbidity dependent the uh the people that are dying they have an average of uh 2.6 comorbidities the people that are dying from covid only six percent of the people who died from covid actually died from covid the most of them are dying from covid he the way he put it is dying with covid right doesn't mean it's not dangerous but it's not dangerous to you and it's not dangerous to jamie jamie kicked it in a day tony hinchcliffe who fucking barely works out i call him today he said he feels a hundred percent he had covid two days ago he tested positive he said it felt like shit yesterday didn't feel too good today feels a hundred percent so basically had a day and a half of feeling shitty and the

whole country shut down for that but it's the people that are vulnerable are really vulnerable older people right sick people but what it is is we it's exposed andrew schultz said it best that this this uh disease is exposed a vulnerability in our health and a vulnerability economically that people can't be out of work for a few months they can't shut down for a few months they need that even big companies need that money coming in constantly to maintain the business model. And with people's health, there's a lot of people that, like yourself, or like Jamie or Tony,

that they get it, and it's nothing. But there's a lot of people that are very vulnerable, because they're just not healthy. They're not taking care of themselves. They're not exercising. They're not watching their nutrition. They're not taking supplements. themselves. They're not exercising. They're not watching their nutrition. They're not taking supplements. And when they get hit, they get hit hard.

That's probably half the nation, though. It's a big chunk. So wouldn't it make more sense that they stay inside? Yes. They lock down. They stay away. Hey, wouldn't it make more sense if, hey, healthy people work, and we're all going to pay this extra tax.

I hate that word. We're going to pay an extra tax i hate that word we're going to pay an extra tax to to support them while they're doing it and supposed to shut everything down and kill a million to save a thousand like they didn't know man when this all started out i just think no one knew what the fuck it was they thought it was going to be way worse than it was and they haven't course corrected right and do you think there's any relation at all, since you love to go down rabbit holes, do you think there's any relation at all to the fact that all these huge companies like Amazon and Google and all are making billions of dollars right now, as long as mom and pop are

closed, people can't get what they want from their store. So they go right to online. I don't think so. I think they're profiting from it And I think they're Taking advantage Of a vulnerability And an availability I don't think they have Anything to do with it Happening in the first place I think what's

Oh no no They didn't have anything To do in the first place But as you said As we're learning And going down the road No I think it's politicians I think they're just

Cowards Who were they lobbied by Yeah there's a little of that But I just think that would be Such a fucking scandal Like to If they were saying Like let's keep these Businesses shut so that Amazon can thrive,

I'd look at you raising your eyebrows. I don't know what you're talking about. Don't quote me, boy. I ain't said shit. It's interesting to think about it that way. And a lot of people are conspiratorially minded and they look at it that way. Eddie thinks China's taken over. He thinks China released the virus. I don't think he thinks china released the virus

on purpose but if you were really conspiratorially minded that's what you would think you would think that china did it on purpose to crash the economy and then they start buying up all these corporations which they are doing yeah and then i'm hearing you know i have no idea about this but i'm hearing i'm getting texts from people like dude dude, they're set up in Toronto. They're set up in Canada. Oh, as long as you're getting texts. Yeah. They're set up in Mexico.

We're surrounded. By who? China? Yeah. And then Jocko's just like, bring it. I'm ready. Bring it. Yeah.

All caps. I'm ready. Yeah. He's my go-to. Whenever I get panicked, I call dad. Jocko, what's going on here? What are we looking at don't worry about it we got it yeah he got COVID and I said how you feeling he goes not a factor that was all

caps not a factor I was I was working at the jujitsu school one day and and I'm under the counter trying to screw some lights in and I hear God what and I'm like I got scared and I looked up and he's standing there and i'm like oh jocko well he's a guy who's been real smart with his business too because he opened up origin which they sell geese they sell really cool stretchy pants and they sell homemade boots i got a pair of his homemade boots they're fucking excellent like american made factory in maine like all stitched together by hand, all done by hand. And when I put them on,

I feel like I bought something that a guy made. It feels legit. It feels like... I'm not getting it from Nike or something. I'm getting it from a person. Your kids are much older right now, but I read the kids' books.

Oh, no. My daughter loves his book yeah and he actually my youngest are 10 and 12 yeah okay all right so you can still read to him yeah i read i read to my boys i try to read to my 24 year old she's not gonna listen every night i read to him and and they love uh you know hearing about uncle jake and but he did a book that didn't get a lot uh it's been kind of quiet with the Mikey and the Dragon book. Yeah. The Mikey Slays the Dragon, I think. I don't want to misquote it.

He'll punch me in the face. But I read it. And I'm not kidding you as a father with your kids and you have that moment where you're reading to them. There's a heavy moment in there where the dad had died. And then the Mikey's like reading his letter to him. And it's like, I well up. Like I have to stop for a second and read it. But it's so good. And it's like i well up like i'm i have to stop for a second and read it but it's so good and it's such a great story and it's like for a guy who is you know in leadership in a award a

warrior and went through those that organization he's very creative in his his endeavors of writing and working and his thinking on that it's it it almost doesn't. Well, it does because he gets good at everything he does. Yeah, I guess so. It makes sense. You implement the jujitsu mindset, right, where you're going to focus, you're going to train at it, you're going to train hard, and you're going to have that kind of blinders, horse blinders on and just go for that.

Yeah, he's smart with everything he does. And to have a blind spot where your creativity is unbalanced or your creativity sucks like he would never allow that you know that would be a weakness you know he told me a story he wants me to draw him the first studio this uh this marine coming out of this like foxhole with like knives and hatchets covered clothes ripped off and it was a true story about a guy and uh and so i've almost been intimidated to dive into that because I'm like, it would never be good enough in his mind. Well, it's how do you do if you haven't experienced that?

That's one of those things. Like you could easily paint someone in a jujitsu match, but you haven't been to war. Right. So how do you do that without making it embarrassing or making it foolish? You know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying.

When I was in my animation days, I would get directors call me in and say, hey, we're going to have Ranger Smith fight with Yogi Bear, but they need to look like they're really fighting. And they would ask me, they're like, well, how do you do this? And I'm like, well, I'm not a fighter. I just do jujitsu. And I know that really well.

And they say, well, we're going to have them put them in the guard and they're going to roll around. And I'm like, well, I'm not a fighter. I just did jujitsu. And I know that really well. And they say, well, we're going to have them put them in the guard and they're going to roll around. And I'm like, okay, do it like this. And he loved it. And John K., who did Ren and Stimpy, he was obsessed with jujitsu and UFC. Really? And he would have huge parties at his house, every UFC. And Tank Abbott was his favorite guy. And he would want to integrate those fighting moves into his cartoons. And he would always get blowback from networks and such. And so, I mean, there's a great documentary, The Ren and Stimpy Happy Happy Joy Joy that I sent it to you.

Yeah. And I don't know if you can see it. I think it's on Apple. It's everywhere. Yeah. But I had a small hand in that with some fucking chemo and they're awesome dudes. And they did a beautiful documentary on the whole history of that show and the failure of it and it and it has a lot to do

with like a just that mental um inner genius going over the edge you know and i see that a lot you have to see it a lot where you somebody's on path and they're doing something so great and then all of a sudden it just starts twisting and going in a different direction. But in their mind, it's still great. I mean, how do you contend with your own writing abilities? And that like, for me, I feel like I have this kind of black hole that I'm, everything I'm doing, I'm trying to fill in. And I know I've heard only stories of comedians who are like, well, we're all kind of like

miserable that we're using this comedy to put band-aids on. And I don't know if that's a thing with you at all. who are like, well, we're all kind of miserable that we're using this comedy to put Band-Aids on. And I don't know if that's a thing with you at all. Because you have outlets working out and fighting, and you're healthy. That keeps me sane. It does. It keeps me, too.

It keeps my approach to comedy reasonably healthy, too. The way I describe it is I make my own bullshit. I don't like to have real struggle in my life, so I make brutal workouts, and I put myself through a horrific struggle. So the regular life, like the other struggles, is easy. I'll tell people, like, come work out with me. You want to feel like shit?

You want to feel like it never ends? You want to feel like you can don't feel like you want to feel like it never ends you want to feel like you're you know you're like you can't do this like come do that and then once you do do it then other things feel easier you know it's like like jaco like jaco will you look at his instagram every fucking morning the aftermath and he'll show you a puddle of sweat on the ground some fucking sweaty kettlebells jump robes dip rings whatever the fuck it is he did that day like beat yourself up in that way and then you're not mind fucking yourself the way you do if you have all this unchecked unbridled energy and angst and you don't have a handle on it and i don't think it affects your creativity i think in any way there it is always yeah it's just the aftermath kettlebells had a bad attitude this morning this but to to do that in my mind

is the best way to deal with the things that we all deal with everybody's got some sort of internal struggle everybody's got some demons yeah there's. Everybody's got some demons. Dark passenger. Yeah, there's always something. It's very hard to keep the mind on track. Very hard. It is. I woke up the other night to take a piss. And just a normal thing.

I drank too much water before I went to bed. I woke up at like 3 o'clock in the morning to take a piss. I went back to bed and my fucking brain started racing. All the time happens. Thinking about everything. And I never got to sleep again. Yeah. My alarm clock went off at 8.

And I was like, fuck. I sat in my fucking bed for hours and hours trying to think about my breathing and just slowly put myself into a trance. Nope. Never went there. All I was doing was just thinking about this and thinking about that.

And my mind got away from me. And it happens still to this day. Most of the time it doesn't. Like last night night i was real calm about i'm like it's not gonna happen again you motherfucker i am gonna get a full night's sleep and i'm not gonna get crazy i talk to myself the same way because i'm like you son of a bitch just one idea in my head that i'm thinking about things that i need to do or things that i need to correct or things that i need to work on and then i'll get lost and i'm like fuck i hate when i

think about minutia, like something I said a week ago to someone and I wish I wouldn't have said that. I wish I would have said it differently or a business deal that I felt I could have done better at. And I start thinking of that and I'm like, that is gone. Why are you wasting your time? So sometimes as an artist,

I try to think of a blank piece of paper and I picture a hand and a pencil just touching that paper. Like I try to go to sleep to that, just like don't draw anything, don't do anything, just stare at that white paper and try to fade. And I can't. I mean, sometimes I feel like it works, but a lot of times it doesn't or I have an angst. I probably said something to the wife that I regret and I'm just laying laying there, and my stomach's on fire, and I'm just burning. But that's also because you want to be a better person. I definitely am.

I'm trying. I think moving here for me was the best thing I could have done to get out of L.A. As we said earlier, you're around so many people that are all trying to make it. They're all trying in this, I call it crabs in a bucket. The minute you start to get to the top, the other fingers come up and pull the crab back down and you're in this environment. And it's like a wolf pack of wolves.

And when one shows weakness or is bleeding, all of them jump on that wolf and just like bark and bite. But then you go home and you bring that to the table at home. At least I did, I do. And it's so hard on our spouses. And they have to deal with that. And how strong are they to stay with us this long and to deal with that? Well, that's where training comes in, don't you think?

Training just pushes all that out of your system. For me, yes. But it doesn't push it out of the system. You created the mess, the hornet's nest at home. And then so does your wife train with you at all ever? No, she works out a lot though. Mine, I've, you know, she'll work out, but not on the level of a ton.

And I want to get her into jujitsu because I feel like the movement, right? Even like, you know, she'll say, oh, I don't want like sweaty people crushing me. I go, okay, fine, just work with me and let's just move and get that movement down and just sweat. And you'll be amazed at how much you'll just break, sweat, and be tired and your legs will be sore the next day from just doing 50 armbar drills. Just get that movement in.

And I use jiu-jitsu every day of my life and work and dealings and talking. Yeah. in my life and in work and just the dealings and talking yeah but jiu-jitsu also it calms the monkey mind that fucking aggressive part of a man's mind where you're in combative and aggressive jiu-jitsu calms all that down because the kind of aggression that you get in jiu-jitsu like really dealing with someone actually trying to strangle you like and defending and oh yeah and then trying to strangle them trying to get the tap like that kind of aggression is so extreme in comparison to the average person's everyday life that when you get through that i think everything else just seems much more calm

it's the greatest feeling driving home after a hard workout and you got the windows down and it's a little chilly outside and you got that inner core fire going and you're exhausted you're depleted you're just like and you can sleep good yeah i always sleep good after training i sleep good after a hard day you know a difficult long tough day is good for you you know it just like calms the mind down when i don't do anything that's when i'm at my worst like if i take a couple days off and just lay around and fuck off that's when my mind starts racing i start thinking about all kinds of shit and just it i'm not i have too much energy do you ever feel you deserve a little day off or when you go hunting and you're like i'm on hunting now well hunting feels like because that's work yeah but it is a day off it's a day off of my regular life like i enjoy it but it's hard

like the kind of hunting i do too is mountain bow hunting right you're walking and hiking for a long yeah carrying rucksacks and it's just it's also you gotta get to a spot while the wind is blowing correctly you gotta hustle and then you gotta keep your shit together when you're trying to center your pin on an elk's vitals and it's not easy and it's hard to execute a shot you know it's it's hard like bow hunting is fucking difficult it's not easy would you ever thought you were going to be a hunter no 20 10 years ago 10 years ago yeah 10 years ago i was obsessed with it before i ever did it i started hunting eight years ago. And around 11, 12 years ago, I started really thinking about it. I started watching Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild on TV. Yeah. Wild man.

And I started paying attention to websites that talked about hunting and talked about just different aspects of what it feels like to acquire your own meat in the wild. And then I started paying attention to PETA videos, man. That's one of the reasons that I got into it. I had decided that I was either going to become a vegetarian or I was going to hunt. Because I was watching these factory farming videos. And fuck, man, they freaked me out. You know, watching just abusive animals and chickens stuffed into these little tiny pens and

what kind of life was that and i was like am i contributing to this like what kind of fucking hellish karma am i bringing on with with this this you know being a part of the system and so i was trying to figure it out i was like well maybe i'll just become a vegetarian or maybe i'll become a hunter and so the first hunting i ever did ever was on a television show i hunted on steve ranella's meat eater oh that's awesome i shot a buck and we ate the liver over a fire and uh that night i was like i am gonna be a hunter i know what i want it's so much more than that though it's the camaraderie it's the oh yeah the fire and you become friends with exceptional people like jujitsu right it's the oh yeah the fire and you're cooking you're you become friends with

exceptional people like jujitsu right it's very similar like a person to get good at jujitsu like yourself a person gets to the black belt level like you you have to be an exceptional person it's very difficult to do it's hard it's hard to it's hard to endure and to get through the struggle and it you you're battling all these demons and all this shit to get to that point. It's the same thing with hunting. The people that get really good at hunting, especially bow hunting, those are exceptional people. It is not easy to do.

The guys that excel at it, the guys like Cam Haynes and John Dudley and all these guys, Remy Warren, guys that I know, these are exceptional human beings. They have exceptional character, exceptional mental strength and fortitude, exceptional discipline. They're not normal humans. It's awesome being around that energy too. You feed off of it and you're like, I get it.

And also for me, I was really fortunate to find a place like John Jock's. So I'm learning from a real master, right? It's been the same thing with bow hunting. I was really fortunate to learn from guys like Cam Haynes and John Dudley, learning from like real masters who've been studying this craft that's also the way they acquire their food. I mean, it's not just hunting. It's also this insane discipline that's a lifestyle.

And then when you're eating your food, like I'm going to give you some elk today. When you're eating this food, know I put an arrow. I ran an arrow through that elk. That's how that elk is on this table. I remember the hunt. I remember everything about it. I remember all of it. That's awesome.

Yeah. It's the best way to acquire meat in my mind. I grew up in a hunting family, hunting household from grandparents to dads and all. My grandpa used to pick me up at a— Your papa? I grew up in San Antonio, Texas, about 120 miles down the road. I'd be in high school at John Marshall, and I'd get a call at noon, please send Todd White to the office, please.

I'm like, oh, no, my papa's here. And I would get there, and he'd be like let's go get your gun we're going hunting because he didn't he was a cantankerous old guy and he didn't have a lot of friends so he could just pull you out of school to go hunting with him because he didn't want to go up for the hunt at least alone and he needed someone to do a lot of the work oh that's hilarious so you know if he shot something i'm gonna have to skin it and gut it and kill it and well he already killed it but uh yeah you know or we go bird hunting a lot i love i love quail hunting and uh we'd shoot a whole ton of bob whites and blues and how many times you cracked

your teeth biting into a pellet um you know what i never cracked a tooth because i was cautious you know i grew up here ever hearing like bird's been shot don't go chewing your food you know bite into it lightly yeah and that's funny though and i would you spit some out that's so crazy and uh he used to get my you know he used to get so angry at me when when i would sneak up on a cubby a quail and they would they would fly up and they'd only be like 10 feet away and i'd be like and it would just disintegrate and he gets so mad he'd be like let the bird get away from you you pussy you know what are you shooting it that close for? So you have to let it get away from you. Yeah, because he would feel it gave the bird a chance.

And it felt like you had to shoot it while it was further going away and supposed to right in front of you. Was it because it doesn't destroy the meat? Yeah, you destroy it. And he was like, you don't destroy them. You're eating what you kill. And we're not here just to shoot things. I've only been bird hunting a couple of times. I went turkey hunting once with Rinella on the same show, Meat Eater, I shot a turkey.

And then I went pheasant hunting with Anthony Bourdain. That was fun. Yeah. And he shot one. I shot out. I nicked one. Didn't quite get it. I hit the bottom of his feather.

I sent a little bit of feather flying. Where did you go pheasant hunting at? Montana. Ah. Yeah. Outside of Billings. That is one man I really wish i would have met i love that dude god i wish i would have met i was such a fan of his show yeah and it was so sad my wife came in the morning and she goes you're gonna be so sad and i was like oh no what i found out from uh maynard

from tool you know maynard does jujitsu yeah or daneain was obsessed with jujitsu did they ever roll together? no so this is the thing Maynard sends me a text message I'm in Chicago I'm doing stand up and I wake up in the morning I got a text message from Maynard says well I guess that Bourdain versus Maynard jujitsu match is never going to happen

so I looked at the text I'm like what does that mean so I think think calling him and i i i think i googled it i think i googled anthony bourdain i think that's what happened but all i remember is the moment i found out i don't i honestly i know i i got the inkling from him but i don't remember what i read but i remember just just this sinking feeling like fuck and the feeling you always have when someone you know kills himself which is like what could i have done what what could i have done if i

was there and i felt like if i was there that wouldn't have happened if i was there i would talk him down off the ledge i would have been there he's had a horrible relationship with this woman and she you know she was a mess and he was a mess with her and then he had a horrible relationship with alcohol too you know he was a junkie for a long time and um he like when we were partying in montana when we when we shot the quail or shot the pheasant and we were eating you know we camped out the fire. Bro, that guy got fucked up. I mean, he got fucked up at a level like... I don't get that fucked up.

He kept going. We were stoned. We were drunk. He's like, where else you got? You got more booze? Open that bottle. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I'm sitting here barely hanging on to this log.

Trying to sit in front of the fire. And he just got blasted. Man. He was escaping. Yeah, hiding, burying the pain. Yeah, he was escaping something. But he was obsessed with jiu-jitsu, man. He really loved it.

He had a competition he did. He entered into competition, and, you know, he was training all the time. He developed a six-pack. Like he got like really real. He went from being a guy with like a little pouch little punch little fat belly to being a guy it was like pretty ripped and you know he's doing a lot of exercises and training basically every day and he was training every day on the road look at him there man look at that i mean cut the fuck up i mean that was a guy who was not i don't think he even got on a mat until he was like

59 or something like that. His ex-wife, Octavia, she's really into jujitsu. Yeah. I think she's, she might be a black belt. Wait a minute. Is that on the right-hand corner? Scroll back to the left side, Jamie, right there. Is that Joe? No, it's not.'s not no no i never trained with him we did some um when we were in

montana i showed him some stuff we were just rolling around a little not even rolling around a little bit he was asking me questions and i was like uh like what do you like to do and you know like talking about darts chokes yeah i said do you know what a japanese necktie is and he said no and i showed him that i'm like if you can't get the darts you can do the japanese necktie so we're demonstrating some stuff so we're like rolling around together on the fucking dirt on the ground that's awesome though right because that's something that's something you can share right there's not a lot of people that you can yeah like get on your back get on your back yeah and they'll get on top of you and like yeah other people like what the fuck are you doing man yeah

he had another guy that he worked with that was really into jiu-jitsu too that was uh you know a friend of his it was a it was it was just this fucking sinking shitty feeling where you you just you feel like you could have done better but you don't know what you could have done and then you're you're probably lying to yourself like unless i was in France with him when it happened, I'm not going to stop it. And it's also, I recognize from the night hanging out with him partying. I had drank with him before. I'd gone to dinner with him a bunch of times before. But camping is a different animal.

Camping's awesome. Yeah. Camping, you really get down to the meat and potatoes of brohood. And you just get to hang with the meat potatoes of brohood and you just get to hang with dudes and like y'all share intimate stories about things and passions and addictions and and also the stars yeah it's just you're outside it's so primal it's that's the way it was yeah i believe we all have we you know people who are at this level we all have addictions in one way or another and how we we guide that addiction and where it

goes well what you're what leads you to get really good at things is an obsession an obsession and addiction are next door neighbors they're really close to each other they're very close it's all dependent upon which one is healthy and which one is negative and and and degrades your life and the addictions degrade your life and the obsessions enhance your success. But they're real close to each other sometimes. I've been obsessed with things that prove to be beneficial financially and career-wise, but part of me has got to go, man, I don't know how healthy it is that I'm so obsessed with this. Like stand-up comedy early on in my career was a little bit unhealthy i was

so obsessed with it i was just so driven and and jujitsu and martial arts for sure when i was fighting that i was very obsessed with that and it led to good consequences but that is so close to like a gambling addiction it's just like it just has to be switched a little it's like a lot of guys when they end up fighting, they stop fighting, they wind up being coke addicts. Well, they're going into another avenue. But obviously, there's good ones and bad ones. You're on several good paths. You can use it to your benefit. But I think the same thing that leads you to be obsessed with things and get really good at that, you got to be real careful because that same sort of mental focus can also lead you to get

addicted to things. Yeah. I mean, I've never, I never tried any drugs all the way through like the age of 32. I never got high. I never touched weed till 32. I never got drunk until I was 32. Really? Ever. What happened 32? Well, I mean, well i mean heroin i've never done that now but now it's on it's all just shove it in me and over here's my ass take it off but uh no i uh my my whole family in one way or another have addictive personalities and i knew i knew i did for me early on it was baseball i was super addicted and then when that wasn't going to pan out it became art and i'd always done art so it was easy to shift right into it and i knew if i did something that would distract from my goal of art that i would uh i would go down that path and i would start doing

stuff and if it felt good and i loved it i would dive into it full holiday that's why thank god at the time i found jujitsu because it for my life it just became juj Jitsu and art, Jiu Jitsu and art. That's the case with so many people, Jiu Jitsu literally saves their life. Yeah, it was man, I was a, you know, my dad always came up, the world's out to get them, everybody's out to get you you know, they're going to stab you in the back

and very untrusting with everything and so I kind of came with that anger and he was an angry dude and I had a lot of anger in me early on and I'm telling you, man, getting into that school, and particularly that school, I think, because I've heard stories at other places that were run a little different. And John Jack was such a Jesus character, if you will. He had this compassion and this patience. And he would show you stuff and talk to you.

And his demeanor wasn't aggro he wasn't like he didn't think he was a ufc fighter he was just like oh you want to move like this and move like that and shift your body and and and following his that and the patience and focusing with that it made me a lot more calm having another man choke the life out of you makes you calm you know like keeps you calm under that stress that duress you know like he'll be standing over you and someone's trying to wrap you up and he's like protect your neck protect your neck you know get your back to the floor turn into him you know and and so you you're you're you have that

slowness to look and pay attention at the same time you're defending and fighting and looking and sweats going everywhere people are spitting on each other and you're turning into it. And, and it was, uh, I mean, I take that to this day, you know, when, when things get, you know, someone's in my face barking about something or, or, you know, you get in the art world, you get these people that are really big pants, but they would cower if you stood up. What do you mean in the art world? You know, you get publishers, you get gallery owners that are going to bark at you and tell you the way it is. And you're going to do this. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. you mean in the art world? You know, you get publishers, you get gallery owners that are just going to bark at you and tell you the way it is and you're going to do this.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Really? The art world? Oh, I'm telling you, man. Tell me. I've dealt with gallery owners who are like super bullies who are like, you're going to do this.

I need this now and you're going to get it today, tomorrow. And you talk to you like that? All the time. And you go, I'm probably not going to do any of that. And the thing is, I like to be super calm. And it's almost like mind jiu-jitsu where I go, all that huffing and puffing you're doing doesn't affect me one bit. If you want to go to sleep, I can accommodate that. But we're not going to go down that road.

That's interesting. And I would never have bothered the art world. It can be a dirty world. I've had galleries that, this thing. That's interesting. And I would never have thought that the art world. It can be a dirty world. I've had galleries that knocked me off, my own galleries, start ripping me off and producing work of mine out the back door and signing my name. Like making prints of your shit? That's right.

That's right. Wow. And fake signing your name? Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Caught him.

Caught him. And then they said, oh, no, we got that from China and we're suing you. And they come after me. They got it from China? Yeah, they would make up shit. It was all made up, right? We caught him. Where was this gallery?

It was in Huntington Beach. Really? And we caught him and we shut it hard, and then they flipped the script. And that's when it was interesting because we were getting calls from a lot of media and press, and they were asking me, like, oh, you've been referred to as you and your band of thugs went down and took all your art, right? So what I did is I flipped it. I said, I like that title. I'm going to do a painting called Band of Thugs.

And I did this, like, old mobster 30s painting of all these dudes and thugs, band of thugs, and I'm going to do a painting called Band of Thugs. And I did this like old mobster 30s painting of all these dudes and thugs, Band of Thugs, and I'm going to make money off that. And, you know, it was. So did you have to go down there and get your art from them? Oh, yeah. I went and took everything. I got my art back. I'm taking all of it out of here.

You're no longer a Todd White gallery. You're done. And it soon withered and died after that. But it drug out illegal problems and legal cases and how long did it last about a year and a half there it is look at that that's it look at the guy missing an eye oh wow just that's a band of thugs right you want a band of thugs there it is that's great and uh that's like some uh what's that fucking guy?

The Butcher? Oh, yeah. Bill the Butcher? Bill the Butcher from Gangs of New York. Gangs of New York. Gangs of New York. Go to that picture again. Bill the Butcher. I mean, that is kind of how they're done.

Look at that. They're painted like old-timey bad people. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny because this Vanity Fair did an article on it. And they totally, it's funny because- Van vanity fair did an article on it and uh and and they totally it's funny because vanity fair did an article on what the whole scam and the whole bullshit yeah because it was it made a lot of you know she sold a couple hundred thousand dollars in fake art out there and she sold it across international as a woman yeah it was a woman and international lines

and and it it it it went so she ripped you off to the tune of a couple hundred thousand bucks? Oh yeah. Wow. And it was funny because when it all came out and it was all court cases and stuff, I had galleries calling me because I got scared like, oh no.

I had galleries calling me and they're like, hey, we want to carry you. And this is 2012. Hey, we want to carry you. And I thought, well, this is weird. Like all this bad stuff's happening, but why? So the guy calls me back up, art publisher calls me and he goes, let me get this right. You're asking me, how come galleries want to carry you when this is going on? She made you De Niro in a Scorsese movie and you're wondering why? And I was like,

he goes, play it up, live up to it. Go ahead it go ahead go oh yeah you can carry me and you know what'll happen if you don't pay on time oh no and so it was just uh ridiculousness and uh but it you know look truth prevailed and it worked out and they're gone and I'm still thriving it is a bummer though that you'd have to think like that you would imagine that see this is where I'm fucked up because obviously I don't have any experience in the professional world of art. But you're thinking that you're dealing with other artists and the people that aren't profit-minded. You think of artists. When I think of artists, I think of creative people that just want to make cool shit and do things.

It's awesome to think. And then people that want to – that's the problem with like marrying your mistress, right? That's the problem with making a business out of something that you really find just to be a passion it's tough um you know especially get in there yeah yeah get in there and and wallow in that mire and uh and sometimes there's some ugly sides to it what was it did you get eye to eye with this lady after she had sold your shit you know she ratted herself out accidentally she was a drunk and uh she uh she appeared and needed me to sign an image that sometimes every once in a blue moon when you're that close to me in la and uh they'd come up and grab stuff

and something wouldn't got signed by me so she gives me the signature she gives me this image she's like here i need you to sign this and i look at it instantly i know i'm like this ain't mine this is a bad copy uh print you know xerox of a xerox of a xerox looks tattered and old it was all out of focus it was shorter it was shorter and i'm like i look at her i go where'd you get this and i saw right there in her face i'm like she's like um may oh i from you and i was like i'm gonna take this now we produce our own everything i produce everything so i know the canvas i use i know i know the inks i use i know the color i know the embellishing gel i use so i took it i go i'm gonna keep this and she's like, okay. And she left. And I call my wife and I go, I think she's ripping this off. And my wife's like, no, no, she wouldn't do

that. And I go, I think she is. So I get home and we tear it apart. We break open the canvas. We look at it. We dissect this thing. And sure enough, it was total, total knockoff, total, nothing of ours. And so we called that gallery and there was a kid working there and we're like hey we made a mistake we need some information on some stuff he's like oh yeah I have all the files here here I'll send him over and he sends over this stuff and these numbers don't add up because like I said it's limited numbers right like money they have a number on them right so these numbers aren't at all what they had so they're making up numbers so we catch

that and then we just start building a case and i got the lapd involved how crazy is this through junjock school there was a woman who dealt in art fraud department for the los angeles police department right there's an art fraud department who knew they don't have a looting department who knew they have an art fraud department they did until that woman got yanked in for murdering the fiance of another man's woman so she could marry that dude. That was a big news, big deal. Right in the middle of handling my shit. So you can imagine that went to nothing. Like that disappeared.

Whoa. Yeah. She murdered a woman so she could marry the dude that's right jesus that's a vicious bitch 15 years later they caught her oh my god she got away with it dna evidence bite mark bite mark wait a minute that's uh interesting because i had uh some guys on from the innocence project i know josh dubin and j Fung. And Josh Dubin says that bite mark shit is all nonsense. He says that that is all junk science.

He says there's no way you can tell from a person biting someone that it's absolutely them. They might have got the wrong person. Legitimately. He said that it's a total junk science. And he explained it in detail on the show.

And he has his own podcast. His podcast is called Junk Science. What is Josh's Junk Science? I forget the full title of it, but he's dealt with bite marks, with people that think that they can tell where a fire started. He's like a giant percentage of that is horseshit. They bring in these experts. The experts convince the jury and the prosecuting attorneys

that they can do this, and they can't. Wrongful conviction, junk science, bite mark evidence. This is Josh. Dude, that lady might have got railroaded. There might be an innocent lady in jail right now going, I just wanted to catch art thieves. I don't know. I don't know how that panned out, but it might not be real, man.

The way he says it, man, it's not real. He says it's not real. That's crazy. Yeah. He says they can't. This is a retired L.A. detective sentenced to 27 years to life for 1986 murder. Wow, 15 years later. Look at her, though.

She's guilty. i don't know i'm just kidding i never saw her i never saw her it was a phone conversation wow did she confess i guess so i guess so because because her husband she was married to a cop and so her husband trained oh my god so the guy she married, she killed his ex. Oh, my God. Girlfriend. Girlfriend. Yeah. How'd she kill him?

I have no idea. Kill her, rather. I have no idea. I didn't pry too deep. Sometimes the people we know, you don't ask too many questions. You're like, oh, it happened. Okay. I believe you.

Yeah. And it goes down that path. That's the problem with jiu-jitsu. There's a lot of people that are fucking basically assassins. They training with you well none of that you get a ton of special forces i mean yeah we're here in uh dripping springs and we have six retired navy seals that train with us and they just you know there's a lot of them out here they love the food and the music and the the scene and yeah just texas and the gun laws are great for now you know and you know you got your carry yet uh i just actually just went through

the whole course this past weekend yeah i was caroline yeah that's good it's a different world out here it's a great world yeah let's keep it great yes yeah well that's the worry the worry about people moving here right you know how many people are like fucking joe rogan moved here now every goddamn fucking whiny, you know. I hear it a lot. I hear it a lot. What are they saying? They're like, well, first of all, you have such a cachet that there are land developers

that are buying up chunks of properties all based off Joe Rogan moved there. Period. Oh, Jesus. And that comes from the mouth of the land developer. Really? Yeah, because they're clients of mine. And they'll tell the mouth of the land developer. Really? Yeah, because they're clients of mine. And they'll tell me like, oh, yeah, he's there. He knows that we're buying up properties like crazy.

And developing homes. Because I moved here. Because you moved here. Because you brought Elon Musk. Elon was thinking about moving here already. Because he was already starting up the Tesla Factory But I'm bringing in a lot of fucking comedians

I'll tell you that They're coming in Better get their mind right I'm bringing them to the range The idea is to turn Austin into a comedy hub Because right now comedy is fucked. What happened? Bite mark thing. I just want to dig through

it real quick before we get too far. It's saliva they had left on it. They tested to find out it was a woman, not two men. They thought she had staged a fake burglary. She staged a fake burglary? Dude, you know, if this had something like that, that's different. If this whole thing ever collapsed, you could definitely go work for

like science research centers for detectives. He's the greatest Googler on earth. Oh my god, okay. That's different. If this whole thing ever collapsed, you could definitely go work for science research centers for detectives. He's the greatest Googler on earth. Oh my God, dude. That's way more definitive. She's guilty as fuck. She just went from could be innocent to guilty as fuck. Goodbye.

That bite mark shit, I used to think it was legit. Like, oh, you could tell by the pattern of the teeth. And Josh was like, no fucking way. You can't tell at all. He's like, it's bullshit. He goes, you could make a mark with a chisel and it looks like uh don't they teeth patterns find sharks who bite surfboards yeah but that's a shark you know a bite but you don't know the person who bit you you know he was saying like that they've had things with people missing teeth and they

said it had to be him because he's missing teeth there's a spot here no no there's no you could make this you can't reproduce this like you could make these marks with all kinds of different things he goes it doesn't necessarily even have to be a bite and if it is a bite you could definitely do it with a bunch of different mouths and have the exact same marking given the same you know different circumstances in a pretty interesting way too because she was already an lipd she's already there so they they had to fake a different interview that they needed her special expertise on.

Staged a one hour interrogation where they were then saying, by the way, this is the evidence on you. And she's like, am I a candid camera? What's going on? This is crazy. And then tried to leave. And they're like, click, click. Whoa!

So the other side of that that they got her in that room because you have to take all your weapons out and leave your weapons so she didn't have a gun on her wow yeah I heard that too that's heavy

the tangle webs we weave I wonder what the questions were who knows like so if someone bit someone, let's just get crazy. Let's get crazy. Say you're fucking this guy,

and, you know, he had a fiance, and you thought that he was going to stay with the fiance. Bro, some people are... And you know what? They probably would never kill normally. Like, there are people

that would never kill normally, and maybe never kill again. But you just get them to that fucking edge. Love. Just get, a lot of times it's love. Love. Might not even. Take you down dark holes.

Might not even really be love. It might be desire and lust and possession and ego. And some women just, they get mad at other women, man. There's a different kind of anger. You know, women anger at other women is a other women, man. There's a different kind of anger. You know, women anger at other women is a fierce anger, man. You want to do something fun next time you're out with whatever,

your wife at a restaurant or bar or whatever, and you have a bar nearby. I do this for a living. I watch people. I watch groups. I watch them interact, okay? And you watch groups of girls interact, whether they're young or older.

There is a difference. And older ones, they'll do a lot of still moving, hand gesturing, fidgeting, back and forth talking, a lot of facial expressions with girls. Young girls will get into movement. Young girls will move their bodies around. They'll say stuff and they'll laugh and they'll do their, they'll act out things, right? But you watch dudes, this group of dudes talking, for the most part, not drunk talking, just Ed Bars talking. They got their drink by their chest.

They lean. They lean in. They make a face like, no way. What? That's the dudes talking. So I take all that because I stare. I watch people. Everything I do, I stare.

And I can uncomfortably stare. I've had dudes approach me in restaurants and they're like hey bro uh is there something you need to say and i'm like i'm sorry dude i was just watching i'm an artist i'm just watching dude i'm sorry here's some of my work i just this is how i uh you checking my wife out dude you've been looking at us like uncomfortably i'm like uh so now I try to have my wife with me. I'm like, no, no, no, just looking, just looking. But I like to, I look at the way clothes hang on people.

I look at the way dudes wear pants. I look at the way women have dresses. I look at the shoes they're wearing. Like I'm soaking it in, right? That's my reference. That's, I'm pulling reference on everybody. And you use that for your art. Oh, all the time.

That's all I refer to, you know'm i'm no longer the one thing i the one small thing i miss about not being in la is i don't i miss some of the artists that i was around and the conversations you can have and you know probably the same reason you're creating more of a hub here and bringing convenience here because you miss that camaraderie of of that feedback right well it's also we need a place to work you know you comics need a bunch of other comics around just like... To bounce off? Well, yeah. It's almost like, you know, you can't train with all white belts.

Right. You won't advance. Right, right. That's a great analogy. Same thing with comedy. You need to be around other killers. You need to feel the vibe. You know, you need to see their timing.

You need to feel like what it feels like to laugh at somebody else's stuff and be like, ah, it's inspiring. It energizes you. Yeah. It energizes you. You go, okay, I love that. I'm going to take that now. I got to reach that level too. It was the best thing about the comedy store is that we were surrounded by other killers.

It's like you would go there on any given night. There would be 10 elite comedians there. And you'd get to see their writing. You'd get to see their performing. And you go, wow, it's very, very inspiring. And comedy doesn't exist in a vacuum. We really feed off of each other. We help each other a lot.

Same thing in the art world. There's artists. You hang around. My boy Rick, we share ideas. We talk, and it gets you motivated and energized. He's in a totally different genre of jewelry, sculpting, and rings. And I'm in painting, and we have the same mindset, the same thinking, the same ideas. And it's great to just mill those through and talk them through.

And sometimes he'll call you on shit and be like, oh, that's a horrible idea, you know. But I thought it was so great, you know. I think that's the case with people, period. And I bet it's in all walks of life is that you feed off of other excellent people around you. The more excellent people around you that are doing things and working hard towards things, the more you feel good about it.

Like when I go to Jocko's Instagram, right, i just see his his workouts or i go to david goggins or cam haynes i get fucking excited i get fired up i want i get like that extra gear kicks in like time to go to work like i feel that like people are fuel you know they're fuel for you and they're not just fuel they're also like they add layers to your understanding. They're an education. You get an education from other people's creativity. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You can grow from them and learn from them. Yeah. And the same on my end is around people. Luckily, around a good wife and a good life and surround yourself that god man that's everything if you don't have a good person in your life you know jesus christ i have friends that have terrible girlfriends and it's like you just you look like you're always at war you're always in battle like a certain percentage of your mind is always dealing with the conflict of your relationship all the time you know whether you have uh a the a girl who's like always questioning you or or bitter

or starting fights or needs too much attention or or shits on your work or whatever the fuck it is man i've i have friends that i see this conflict, and sometimes you see them, they escape, and then it's like a weight is lifted off their shoulder. They're like a different person. They're like, dude, now it's you. You're back to being you again. You were trapped, and now you're free. And usually they find someone real similar to that girl and fall right back in the trap.

Yeah, I'm totally lucky on that end. And in fact, if anything, I'm the devil in that relationship where I need to work on myself and get myself better, my attitude better, my mind right. And, you know, come to grips with my own fears and insecurities and stuff. And she's just been a rocket next to me. That's awesome, man. I can say the same about my wife. I would not be who I am. She's my favorite person to talk to, too.

It's easy to talk to someone who knows you that well. There's no conflict like that. It's like it works seamlessly. It works. You always have to work at it, but it works. And if you don't have that kind of relationship in your life, it's very difficult to get things done. It's hard to get things done if you have a conflict-filled relationship.

If you have five good days and five bad days, which is a lot of people, it's balanced out. You need nine good days or 20 good days and one bad day. You don't need five and five. Those five and five relationships are too much fucking work. They rob you of your resources. Yeah. It's,

it's extremely tough because we work together and we're, you know, dealing with five kids together and then we're doing the business together. And then we're doing the jujitsu school together and we, everything's tied in. And you're through the pandemic now. Yeah. And that's,

you know, I heard a lot of the divorce went through the roof in the pandemic and and if any it's brought us closer because it's one or the other it is because i i it made me reevaluate myself and i had to look in a mirror for a long time and be like you know there's a lot of things you're doing that aren't beneficial here and and especially relationship wise and you know i i really focus heavily on the kids and we want them to have the best opportunities to do whatever they achieve for and uh you know i would fight certain things and it was just in my own head my own

problem and and it was good to like talk to people and get things out and try to wrangle well i always feel like anytime someone's really ambitious or someone's really working hard at something it's like you have an engine right and the bigger the engine the more horsepower you have but also the more difficult it is to keep the traction it's more difficult you keep the tires on the road because you got this fucking and the car's going sideways and stuff but if you can get that motherfucker to straighten out it can go fast right you can go further you can get more shit done but it's sometimes hard to handle just like a muscle car it's hard to handle and i think of

my brain often like an engine like i gotta keep that fucker tuned yeah i gotta keep it tuned and i gotta keep the traction control on. I got to keep those fucking tires on the road. Because if I just let it go wild, like, bah! If I don't exercise it, if I don't, you know, fucking keep everything in balance, it could go bad, and it's not for everybody. Like, there's a lot of people that I think, like, I look at the way they live their life, and I'm like,

thank God you don't have my brain. Cause if you had my brain, you'd be fucking crazy. You would never be able to handle it. You'd be off to the races every day. You'd be out of your mind. Oh yeah. Especially your lifestyle.

Yes. I, I've, I've used that analogy a million times where I'm the motor, but she's the driver, you know? And it's like together we, we have to make that not break loose on the ground.

Just drive straight. You got a pit boss. Yeah. You got a pit boss. Yeah, I got a pit boss. She's the pit boss for sure. Boop, boop, boop. You know, and changing the wheels out and keeping the family in order. Yeah, keeping those fucking tires on the road is hard for a lot of folks with a lot of horsepower. You know, there's a lot of people that I know that are really talented, but they wind up ultimately being very self-destructive.

And I think that is a lot of times that's what happens when talent and ambition don't have discipline. So you have talent and you have ambition, but you have these demons that you give into those demons instead of having a real strict regimen of discipline that you adhere to. I've been very lucky that I don't deal with the galleries and I won't talk to them because she knows me very well and she's the filter and she's the buffer and she's that wall that stops me from dealing with them. And she turns and deals with them on a much kinder hand. But she deals with my brunt of my dickiness and, you know, me pitching little bitch tantrums and being like, what do you mean that doesn't look like her? It fucking looks exactly like her.

Does she not know what she fucking looks like? And she's like, yes, I know know but she really wants to look sexier and i go okay and then i'll calm down she'll calm me down and go listen just give it one more shot come on and i'm like one more pass one more pass and i go okay you know she just calms the savage beast you know is that the only time that you've ever had to deal with a fucked up gallery is that one lady was yeah i mean uh you're always suspect right you know listen to this is that because you've gone through that so there every gallery is struggling and fighting and not just in this covet time this is worse but they're always pining for like what's the niche that they have that the other guy doesn't have you know and they always some of the high end, like my New Orleans guy when I was in there,

they would say, we need something that no one else has. So when I did a show there in my early days, kids would come into the shows, and they would know me from my past life, which was SpongeBob, and they'd say, hey, can you do me a SpongeBob? And I'd be like, absolutely. If a kid's there, I'd draw him up a little SpongeBob in his book or on a piece of paper.

I'd use Sharpie, and I'd give it to him. Sign it, T.W. To Billy. Love, T.W. Well, years later, we get a client that was in LA at the time and they said, hey, my son broke. We framed up the SpongeBob you did for him and he broke it. Can you reframe it for us? And I have a frame shop. And I'm like, yeah, bring it on in and we'll fix it up. And they brought it in. And the minute I saw it, I go, oh, that's not my writing up top. That's my drawing and that's my signature. And I look at it. Now, I came from the world of using Xerox. So they were Xerox. They taped off some kid's name and they Xeroxed a bunch of Sponge Bobs. And they would say to the client, hey, if you buy this, I can get you a Sponge Bob from him for your kid. Now, we all want to do for our kids.

We all want to be the superstar. So they would sell it, and then they would write, what's your kid's name? Joshua? Here you go, Joshua. Blah, blah, blah. And so I got it it and the top name was written in a marker but the image and the signature was a sharp xerox and xerox has that shine to it and it's flat and even and it's dead level and i'm like those motherfuckers now are they really

are they really scamming they're giving it away they're not selling it it's a so it's this weird line, right? It's their angle. They're pining for something. So I basically called them up on it and said, don't do that. I'm not making a big stink about this. Just don't do that because that's not 100% genuine. They're like, well, you are the guy.

And I go, I know, I know. It's all legit, but it's not legit. So that was a tough part. Well, you are the guy. What does that mean? Well, you're the guy that did SpongeBob. So it's not like you're, you know, we're saying, you know, here's, you know, this character that you didn't have anything to do with.

Right. So, but you didn't write it. Right. And I didn't write it. I didn't draw that for that person's name. And so they were just Xeroxing it and then signing them off and pushing them out there. But again, that's just a small example of like the hustle, you know. Nowadays, it's almost impossible to do scammy shit because you have the internet.

You have such access to everyone, right? Like you can imagine if someone did something, sent you an email or to someone in your crew and was like, hey, this is happening. Is this are you and you're like nope within an hour nope not me well i've seen that before i've seen uh signed photos they're not my signature yeah and i'm like that's not my signature yeah yeah and so and in our day and age of uh the internet instant access email it's funny too because a lot of the older people don't understand how easy the access is. How super easy it is to find out if something's fake or real.

My dad, he'll try to tell me stuff. And I'm like, dad, that's not true. And he's like, oh, it is. My friend at the bar told me. And I'm like, here it is, dad. While we're on the phone, here it is. That's Jamie. Yeah, that's Jamie.

You're never gonna get some bullshit through. Well, the old days man people could lie about anything you had all those people with the fake warriors fake uh saying they were oh yeah stolen valor stolen valor oh my god when you catch guys when they catch guys like uh on video at the airport like it's the most embarrassing thing when guys are flying and another soldier runs into them they look at their suit and they look at them and they just smell something wrong they start asking questions you know where are you from where did you deploy what unit yeah and those numbers don't add up no you didn't even do enough homework to like fake look at some fake units it's just so sad such a sad thing it's like fake black belts you know i mean there's a lot of those too that's a one of

the saddest things when you see a guy get called out on being a fake black belt. I never encountered any of that. Don't you remember Eddie found that guy, caught that dude who turned out to be a murderer? No. You don't remember that story? I don't. I don't. I'm out of that loop.

His name, he had a different name, but he came up with a name. His name was Rafael Torre, and he wrote for Abu Dhabi Combat Club. Remember the website? Yeah. Abu Dhabi Combat Club. Well, Eddie knew him, and he was a black belt. But he said he was a black belt in Japanese jiu-jitsu. It was like one of them weird things.

And so Eddie rolled with him one day. And Eddie was like, I remember him telling me, like, this is really confusing. really confusing he's like dude he didn't know anything it's so strange and i go really and i go so do you think he's a black belt he goes i just can't believe he's a black belt it doesn't make any sense and so he was starting to question whether or not this guy was legit or not it was very strange so um time goes on and the guy says that he's going off to uh go compete in this tournament in thailand so he goes and competes in this tournament in thailand and he tells eddie he goes hey i got this guy on a twister and then we're like okay we start thinking because if you don't know for folks who don't, a twister is a complicated submission.

It's difficult to set up, and it's hard to get someone in, unless they just know nothing. It's hard. And you've got to drill it over and over and over again. And generally speaking, it's hard to get in training. But to get in a competition, an MMA fight, wow, really hard. And especially if the guy's shown no... I mean, there's got to – there's a lot of finer points to the twister.

There's finer points to the setup. There's finer points to the closing of it. So Eddie's like, this guy's full of shit, man. This guy's full of shit. I'm not believing this. I'm not believing this at all. So time goes on. Eddie winds up calling him out, right?

He has a conversation with him on the phone. I'm in the car. We're driving, and Eddie's on the phone. I'm in the car. We're driving. And Eddie's on the phone with him. And he's saying, he goes, listen, man. He goes, you're not a fucking black belt. He goes, I know you're not a fucking black belt. And he goes, I don't want to hear any of your bullshit.

And he goes, you're a fucking liar. You're not a black. I know you're not a black belt. And it's like this really intense conversation. Long story short, this guy winds up murdering this woman's husband he said he's banging this girl he winds up murdering her husband and then driving around in her car okay there was an yeah it all gets crazier. It gets crazier. One of his students, who is also one of Eddie's students, and I am sort of like casual friends with this guy,

he tells us that this guy asked him to kill the guy and even brought him a gun to kill the guy and offered him money. And then he winds up killing the guy on his own. Like, this is some crazy shit. So he tells this to us on the phone. Then I get a phone call from the cops who were listening in on the phone call when he tells us that this guy had offered him money to kill the girl the girl's husband i'm like this is fucking banana so then the cops are on the phone with me i'm in the green room uh of fear factor

i'm in my trailer actually getting ready to uh to go out for fear factor and i get this phone call from the cops and uh they said uh well we want to talk to you about this uh conversation you were having and i just laid it out to them. I go, well, this is what I know. First of all, I don't know if the guy really killed anybody because the guy's a liar. And so I explained the whole thing. I'm like, the guy made up a bunch of shit. Here's another thing the guy made up.

He had a friend. This is hilarious. Had a friend take him to the woods. And he had a bag, a big duffel bag like a big ass bag or a four foot long duffel bag filled with stuff and he says i'm going to compete in a kumite tournament it's uh it's a no rules no holds barred kumite tournament i'll be back tomorrow so the guy drops him off and then he says come meet me at the spot again tomorrow or whatever time so they set a time so at the time the next day now he doesn't have the bag anymore but he has

a trophy that's the same size as the bag bro it's so dumb it's so dumb so he says he went into the woods and won this fucking kumite tournament comes out with this trophy and was telling this guy that he's like this fucking so the guy's just a a full-on pathological liar lied about being a black belt lied about having this fight in thailand did he actually kill someone but actually killed somebody yeah he actually did kill this guy now he's in jail for it yeah he's in jail for it right you could probably find it oh my god yeah he's in jail for it right now it choked this guy to death yeah i don't know if he choked him with a thing or with his arms i don't i don't know what he did but uh but wound up killing this guy so i'm explaining to his cops i go i don't know what he actually did

because the guy's a liar like he's so dumb he might have said he killed the guy when he didn't right like he's a full-on but it turned out he actually did it full-on liar so i just tell him i tell the cop the whole story well this is what i know and they were listening on the call they were listening they're listening on the conversation you remember where lou sal I just tell the cop the whole story. I go, this is what I know. And they were listening on the call. They were listening. They were listening on the conversation. You remember our boy Lou Salceda, Lou the cop? Yes. So he used to tell me, we would turn on people, the gang members,

we would turn on their cell phones and listen to their conversations. We'd listen to everything they were doing. While their phone's just sitting around. In their pocket, whatever. He goes, yeah, we turn them on and listen. And a couple of, you know, we're building out a new jiu-jitsu school over in Dripping Springs. And I got a couple of ex-seals that are helping listen. And a couple of, you know, we're building out a new jiu-jitsu school over in Dripping Springs. And I got a couple of ex-seals that are helping me.

And I'm giddy. I want to ask questions, you know, because I'm curious. I'm not a fucking elite warrior. I've never run through Afghanistan with machine guns. And I'm like, hey, what was it like, dude? Did you ever, like, smoke some people? And they're like, don't know what you're talking about. And they'll just hold their phone up and wave it like this yeah they'll go look at me and shake

their head no like i'm not saying a thing well and i'm like and you have siri do you have siri so yeah the little cube apple apple no so i have the little music that motherfucker's listening oh oh every morning i wake up i go sometimes i go, hey, Siri, what time is it? Right? I always want to know what time it is. Even when I go to pee, it's 542. So sometimes I go real soft. I go, hey, Siri, what time is it?

The time now is, and it scares me. I'm like, God, she fucking heard that. She hears everything. Like, how good is that microphone in there? It's good. And at some point you just accept. Like, I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm not a criminal. So I kind of go, I'm not doing anything. Oh, do I care? But what if I found myself in a situation or someone was telling me something and I'm like, no, you did that. Here's what you got to do, bro. And then the

next thing you know, my phone rings and the cops go, yeah, when you were just talking about hide that body in a pig farm and feeding them to pigs, I'm like, I saw it in a movie once. I don't know anything about it. I have a friend who told me even worse. What is this, Jamie? The inmate shown is serving a sentence of life without the possibility of parole and is therefore not eligible for parole consideration at this time. Oh, that's Rafael Torre?

Yep, that's him. Oh, my God. That's the dude. Yeah. And apparently that's not even his? Yep, that's him. Oh, my God. That's the dude. Yeah. And apparently that's not even his real name. Like, he changed his name. Yeah, it's something else, but that's what he's in under. Yeah.

Oh, my God. He made his name to sound out Brazilian. Like, he said he was half Brazilian. Of course, of course. Yeah, story of a fake black belt. That's it right there. Oh, my God. I mean, it's all over the place.

Right, fake black belt and convicted murderer. But I remember Eddie being on the phone with him going, dude, you are not a black belt. Like, I don't know why you're fucking lying, but you're fucking lying. And then the guy turns out to be a murderer. That's scary as fuck. He wrote for Abu Dhabi Combat Club. He would give these weird interviews where he'd ask guys, how many girls are you fucked in the ass like crazy questions like like that was he was calling it gonzo journalism you know but it was just nonsense it was just he was just trying to be like crazy and but scammed his way

into a position where he was writing for well obviously like if you're writing for mma uh mma journalism back then this is uh i was on fear factor so we're talking about like 2001 probably ish 2002 ish when it was all happening that is uh you know the early days of the internet and like people the internet journalism was not taken seriously internet websites were just like an afterthought it wasn't like they hired like serious like today like if you write for mma junkie or mma weekly or any of the like top tier mma websites you get like really good writers you have a reputation too behind you yeah they're they're good writers it's like you get a career as a writer you know these guys were not like that

it was just random so this dude who's a fake martial artist tricked people into hiring him to write. And they sent him to these events. This was back, you know, I remember when Abu Dhabi first came along, when John Jock was really one of the pioneers of Abu Dhabi because he was a guy who showed everybody that there was guys who were uh gi guys who also excelled in nogi and he was the best remember he like tapped sakurai all those guys ran we would have to get on this website to see what the scores were and eddie would come in every day with the score sheets and be like look what's happening here's what's happening now. Those videos. Pull up John Jock Machado versus Hayato Sakurai.

So for people that don't know, Sakurai at the time was a legend in MMA in Japan. And for the guys like me, they're the hardcore guys that were really interested in fights from Japan, from Shuto and K-1 and Rings and all these different organizations that were happening in Japan. Like, he was a legend. And to see him, you know, competing against John Jock and to see John Jock just fucking run through him, we were like, yes! It was a big deal.

Because he was showing control with Nogi that a lot of the Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts that were used to grabbing collars and sleeves didn't have but see jean-jacques for people that don't know was born with only a thumb on his left hand he only has a thumb so he all of his fingers are missing except his thumb so jean-jacques game involved more overhooks and underhooks than it did lapel grabs and pinching. So he had a lot of stuff that was immediately transferable to no-gi MMA, unlike a lot of other fighters.

You see it anywhere? I'm typing it in. It's not coming up that way. It might be in a different video or something. What's that right there? It's like a highlights or something. Well, he went up against Yuki Nakai, too. You can pull that up.

That was another jiu-jitsu match. Yuki Nakai is another guy who's a fucking legend. Look at that. Look at young Junjock. Oh, that's Junjock with a gi. Yuki Nakai fought in Valley Tudou, Japan. Guy's fucking eye gouged out. He fought that...

What is that guy that fought in the ufc as well that the uh karate guy that poked his eyes out he poked one of his fucking eye out and he still competed and made it all the way to the finals in in the old days was the tournament yeah it was a japan valley two though that was the one where hicks and Gracie won it. He won it a couple years in a row. That was like Gerard Gardeau. Oh, Gerard. Yeah, yeah. Remember that guy?

Yeah, yeah. Big dude. That guy poked Yuki Nikai's eye out. Like, Yuki Nikai lost his eye in that match. Like, he's blind in one eye for this day. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But he was like a really highly respected jujitsu guy and john jock basically i know i know every feeling right there yeah i know that feeling i know that

i know the guard yeah i know the struggle you're having with that motherfucker you know what's interesting about john jock too that he's still capable of rolling with no problems at all he doesn't have any like major injuries he had a little bit of a meniscus tear he was telling me yeah and he got a cortisone shot in it but he still rolls i love that man he's done so much for me and me as well mentally and just set me on good paths yeah i had good talks we've had i mean we've had hour-long talks yeah just you know you know that was a period of time you like you said, when we met and I'd lost the, I didn't lose the Nickelodeon job. We went on hiatus, you know, and I was out of work and I was just like, what am I going to do? And I would just have talks with him.

And, you know, he was very generous to me and he would say, look, come teach here. And I was a purple at the time. Come teach here and you don't have to pay your fees. And then he took me in, man. He really treated me well. Oh, he's a great person. He's a great person. He gave me good guidance.

And sometimes when I'm getting out of my head with thoughts or whatever, I just try to think like, what would John Jock do? See if you can find, didn't he tap Cal Uno as well? Yeah, he did from the back, on his back and curled him up. Yeah, see if you can find that. But the Abu Dhabi stuff should be around. John Jock versus Sakurai. Machado versus Sakurai.

That should be out there. The Sakurai one was really interesting to me. Because Sakurai was, at the time, he was a fucking straight-up killer. I remember when he fought Frank Trigg in that fight. He had that giant cut. Yeah, Eddie, we were in the back and we were in the locker rooms and Eddie kept telling him, what are you going to do if you can't take him down?

What are you going to do? And he was like, I'll get him down, I'll get him down. He goes, man, that's a class wrestler. This is Kyle Uno. And Uno is another guy who was, at the time, was a legit MMA superstar. Hunting. Just hunting him down. There's the overhook.

There it is. Yep. Good luck, bud, getting out of that overhook. Yeah, all that overhooked on that left side in particular. That's the left side where he had no fingers. Got a hook in. Oh, my God. He's going to, I believe, in this he takes his back.

I don't remember what he did. But I remember he tapped him. He tapped everybody. There it is. There it is. See? He's on his back. Curls him back.

Oh, he's like he's got that surgical tool. How did he get to his back? Well, he's on his back now. Yeah, but how did he get there? Just curling. Just curling around. Oh, okay. Yeah, and he gets that arm.

Look at that. The other thing is that where there's no hand, the hand that has no fingers, that one always goes under the chin. Yeah, that's a surgical tool. Yeah. A surgical tool. Slides.

Get in there. It slides like a bone right underneath your neck. But at the time, this was so impressive because these guys were giving a lot of people fits. A lot of these guys were considered elite grapplers when it came to MMA. And just to see them just basically fighting for survival against a guy like Jean-Jacques, it opened up a lot of people's eyes. It also opened up a lot of people's eyes.

It's like, what is the most effective way to participate in no- jiu-jitsu with the you know standard jiu-jitsu skills here we go he's gonna curl him up watch and he's gonna oh back over well he's still got time he's gonna lay him on his belly he's gonna arc him yeah and just wrench and he's gonna tap yeah go forward ahead so we can see the tap a little bit more that right there oh nope you already had him right there you know one day we're on the side we're talking on the mats and he actually he's like there it is look at that oh okay this isn't he didn't have him on his back it must have been another one look at him lay there oh i messed up john jock i love it i love i love that i came out from under him you know and i love that it's one love that I came out from under him

and I love that it's one that's my only instructor I didn't have five different schools and travel around or be in the unfortunate like I was in the military and I trained here

and I trained there and I trained here it's like that's the school I walked into and I didn't leave until I walked out of Blackwell I actually came to his place

third the first place I went to was Hickson's but Hickson's was all the way down on pico and that was a long haul for me i was living in north hollywood it was a long drive brutal but i knew he was i knew the last name gracie i didn't know jack shit but then carlson gracie opened up on hawthorne in hollywood right down the street from the comedy store

and that was when extreme fighting was going on you remember extreme fighting. And that was when Extreme Fighting was going on. Remember Extreme Fighting? And that was when Mario Sperry was there. And there was so many guys that were coming up. Murillo Bustamante, he was out of there. It was an amazing gym. Carlos Bejeto. Remember Carlos Bejeto? I do.

He was out of there. Yeah, early pioneers of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from Carlson Gracie and also Vitor. That was when Vitor was 19 years old, and he fought John Hess in Hawaii and fucked him up and just lit him up with punches. And I remember thinking, like, Jesus Christ. He was 19, and he was built like a fucking pit bull and the lightning fast hands. And then I was training over there. I was still a white belt.

I was a white belt over there. I didn't get my blue belt until I came to John Jocks. And then Vitor went to fight in the UFC. So when he went to fight in the UFC, we were calling him Victor. His name was Victor. I called him Victor a couple times In the UFC broadcast We called him Victor Gracie That's what we called him

That was his original That was the name he was going under And I remember I think I fucked it up a few times Because they had changed it to Vitor I was baffled Because we had always called him Victor Like I didn't understand what was going on And when he made his UFC debut

I was training at Carlson Gracie's But then Carlson's went under. And when Carlson's went under, I needed another place to train, and then I found Judge Ox. I found Judge Ox, and that was 98. So I started at 96 at Hickson's, and then I trained at Carlson Gracie's there during 96. And then I think 97-ish is when he went under and then i waited until 98 and then i started

training at john jocks no it might have been 97 i went to john jocks it was like right around that time like i just wasn't too much time off but then i got lucky and i found john jocks i'm horrible with the timelines of things i might be off by a little bit off on everything i might be off by a little bit but i'm pretty sure 96 was when I first started training at Carlson Gracie's because it was 97 when I made my UFC debut as a commentator, as a post-fight interviewer. That was UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama. That was 97.

Jesus, dude. Yeah. I can't believe you remember that. Yeah. Well, I remember that because I was supposed to be in Buffalo, New York. But New York put the kibosh on cage fighting. And so then we had to go to

Dothan. And I remember it was the debut of Vitor. Trey Telligman was on that card. Scott Ferrozzo. Dude, you got memory, man. I have to. Man, I wish. I wish I was smarter, you know? Sometimes, you know, I just can't put things together and get in there.

Well, I take a lot of supplements, too. Yeah, I took some AlphaBrain before this. Yeah, that's what I did. I'm like, I got to be on point with Joe. That's the thing that I take for memory. That and just some NeuroGum I like, too. You know, I was talking with John Jock one time, and he was telling me how, like, you. You know, I was talking with John Jock one time,

and he was telling me how the art career was kind of taking off, and I was doing well, and I had just done the Grammys. And he said, you know, you also need to think about giving back and doing something, something. And I didn't know what to do with that. And he said this. And about a month or two later, my mom, who was an art school teacher in a middle school, public middle school teacher, and her whole life, 35 years, public middle school teacher, art. And she said, I was talking on the phone.

My mom was visiting, and I was doing this drawing sketch. And I was talking on the phone, and then I turned it. I flipped the phone. I took a picture of it. I sent it to the gallery. And he's like, OK, we sold it. It's gone. And I think I sold it to the gallery. And he's like, okay, we sold it. It's gone. And I think I sold it to the gallery.

It was like 300 bucks or something. And my mom goes, did you just sell that drawing you did on the phone for 300 bucks? And I go, yeah. And she goes, you know, that's more than my art budget for the entire school, for 30 kids in a class, six classes a day. That's more than I get for them. And I'm like, yeah. I was like, really?

That's all you get? She's like, yeah, art's getting wiped out in public schools around the nation. And I thought, oh, fuck. And then I thought of John Chuck's thing. And I'm like, that's a calling, right? So I started, my wife and I started the Todd White Art Project, 5013C. We take art supplies that we get from all these companies, these big companies, even Blick steps up and I say, look, I'm buying it from you. I'm not asking for free, but sell me the student grade quality and sell me a lot of it.

And I use it. We buy it when we have extra funds or we got an extra kick in on something. We buy up school supplies and we donate it. We put packages together for public schools only around the United States, these poor underfunded schools. all we said is you know school teachers send out a letter to us saying why you want the supplies for your students and generally most of them are amazing they uh they say you know i use

my own money to buy supplies we don't have any and dude you wouldn't believe it in this country we visited schools that had dirt floors dirt on the floors where schools dude leander was one out here in this texas yes it was a public school small population they had no they had it was like horrible you know horrible conditions and i mean we give them we don't obviously roll in with ipads we roll in with with the watercolor sets, Big Chief tablets, but a thousand, a thousand paints, a thousand brushes, a thousand stuff for the kids. Because the one thing that's getting snuffed out heavily is the creative process, the creative exploring in schools.

They're just getting rid of it. It's just getting gone. Isn't it crazy that that's thought to be not important? Well, everything in your life from that watch to your iphone was created by an artist a designer designed that these microphones it wasn't a suit that designed it it was a artist a creative thinker someone who put together and made it organically beautiful and solid and working and that's being snuffed out and so so we've done 10 schools throughout the past six years, seven years of the program

where we get great letters and we've traveled to Virginia. We've traveled to Ohio. We've done Northern California, Southern California. It was easy when I lived there. I just load up a U-Haul van, drive it down. They bring all the kids into the classroom. I do a 30-minute, 45-minute speech to all the kids. Tell them, let them know.

Let them know about the two rules of life. You can achieve anything you put your mind to, you know, all these young kids. It doesn't matter. I don't care what color you are. I don't care about anything. Don't buy into it. You can achieve what you put your mind to. And the second thing is you have to have the desire to achieve that.

You can't just want it and not put the work in behind it. You have to want it more than anything. I say the two wants. You have to want to do that, and you have to want to achieve that. And I believe you can achieve anything you want if you put your mind to it. For sure. That's a weird thing that isn't taught in school, isn't it? No.

Isn't it weird that that's not? It's one of the most important things to getting ahead. Like you were saying earlier that I'll take drive over talent. Because if you have the drive, you can get to talent. My high school art teacher sent me to a counselor to let the counselor know that I should be an auto mechanic. Why? My high school art teacher. I had the same experience.

Told me, maybe you should fix cars. You should. Because obviously I wasn't a good student. I was terrible in math and I was terrible in English. Maybe you should fix cars you should because obviously i wasn't a good student i was terrible in math and i was terrible in english maybe you should fix you should concentrate on being a mechanic or an electrical or something with your hands a trade but art isn't going to get you where you want to go have you ever seen any of my art i have not yeah i used to draw you should come over and hang i used to want to be a comic book illustrator do it i have uh some stuff but i had i'll try to find you something but i had a shitty fucking art teacher like a really a real asshole and what's

really interesting is oh here's some of my stuff oh not terrible yeah that is uh from isn't that where's the full version of that if you click on on it? Yeah. That is from 19, what does it say down there? It says in the corner. Grandma ain't home. Yeah, but it should say in the image, in the actual image. Look, you had your signature too. Yeah, it would say, yeah, that's me too. Listen, dude.

So anyway, I had a terrible art teacher. He was a fucking asshole. That's me too. That's Bruce Lee, Drew. And you know, the thing is, the more you're working, the better you get. Yeah. Just by pencil time. I've got a bunch of other ones that I have at home.

I have a really cool one that I found recently. There was a Marvin Hagler drawing that I did when I was in high school. It was like 1983 or something like that. But my high school art teacher was a fucking asshole he was just a bitter shitty man common and i was not the most talented guy in the class the most talented guy in the class is a guy named john devore uh who i'm actually friends with we we got in touch with each other recently because I think I brought him up on the podcast, and he reached out and sent me an email. And so he told me he was the most talented guy in the class.

He told me this fucking asshole said the same thing to him. That asshole made him stop being an artist too because he told me the guy failed him. He failed him like a senior year. I'm like, that is insane because he was so good he was so talented like see you see how good i was he was better than me it was really good and just a dickhead failure of a person who found himself like treating kids like shit like doesn't understand psychology didn't care like didn't like his life was a failure like i remember, like, he was asking me why I was drawing what I was drawing. I go, that's what I like to draw.

Yeah, you like to draw. And he was like, well, you're going to have to draw things you don't like to draw. Like, maybe you're going to have to get a job and do ads for diapers. I remember that's what he said. Like, draw a diaper. See, that's an old. That was when I was wrestling. There you go, dude.

Look at that. Look how young we look. 11 years ago. Look at Brian. Look how young we look, 11 years ago. Look at Brian. He's like a little baby. But yeah, that was the high school for Newton South High School. You can make those into shirts, dude. I drew that for the logo.

The logo of the school, the mascot, was a lion. So I drew the yearbook, like the cover of one of the school the mascot was a lion so i drew like uh i drew the yearbook like the cover of uh one of the yearbooks you know you have such a name and recognition that if you if you ever had a charity or whatever organization you wanted to donate to dude do a drawing we make a jaclay of it you sign a number edition and you sell them and it's yours i'm busy bro i know i've got time but i do all the work you do all the work. You do all the work. I'm not doing it. You just have to draw.

I'm not drawing shit. I'm busy. I can kind of draw now, but not like that. Like I can kind of, like I could probably get back there if I started practicing. All you do is be inspired. You come to my studio, you'll be drawing. Okay. Well, I definitely want to come to your studio.

You got to see it. I want to check it out. You got to see it. I love that area, man. I love Dripping Springs. It's awesome. It's pretty dope. It's great.

It's got a lot of hill country. People don't understand there's a lot of rivers. And listen, on the backside of it, there's a whole water wet creek. I can't believe you told me there's elk out there. Oh, yeah. Wandering around. Free range elk. I'm going to send you photos.

That's crazy. There's an axis deer. Mark, send the photos. There's an axis deer in my neighborhood. Oh, yeah. Oh, they're everywhere. Like my wife said that this is deer. She goes, it's a big deer, but it has the white dots like a young deer oh that's an axis deer yeah well first of

all there's a lot of exotic game preserves around and those things get out every once in a while and then they breed and they're out there yeah buddy mine's telling you saw a zebra he goes he's driving down the street he saw a fucking zebra there's camels there's camels no there i should drive down the road and show you two camels sitting there. There's a lot of llamas, a lot of, what are the llamas?

And what's the other one that's like a llama, smaller version? Alpaca. Alpaca. A lot of those. Wife wants one of those. What is she going to do

with an alpaca? She got this, we got a farm, sort of. We got like 50 chickens. We got quail. Yeah, 50 chickens? Yeah, we got quail. How many coyotes do you have

coming to try to eat your chickens? Zero. Really? Zero. So, I have two neighbors who are both like shooters and military, and they have sniped every coyote. Forget it. They're not around. We do have foxes, and they don't actually like to kill the foxes

because they look like cute kittens, and we know where their hub is. It's in a bunch of iron pipes off in this field. And they play around and they run around, but we've never had a chicken gone from a fox yet. But they go in the coop at night and it gets locked up. So the foxes don't come around and I have these two massive German shepherds that run the property.

And they piss and they smell that everywhere. And I don't have deer problems in my area. There's about five 10-point bucks on my property that a couple of my jiu-jitsu guys are like, you know I can take care of that for you. Take care of it? You're not getting rid of my bucks. I'm leaving them.

Don't shoot them. You like having them around, don't you? I do. I like having the animals there. Plus, they're tame. Look, if the apocalypse comes, every deer in my neighborhood is fucked. But if it doesn't come, I like having them.

They're pets. Yeah, I drive around. I can get 10 feet from a 10-point buck driving my truck. I'm like, look at you. I take pictures of them. Sometimes they jump and spook. There's a fucking elk wandering around in Texas. That's crazy.

No, they're everywhere, dude. Look at that. That's him right there on the right. That's wild. That big ass. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, there you go dripping springs yeah that's crazy they're out there wandering around elk are weird out here because they used to be indigenous right this used to be uh an animal that was uh native to basically most of the country but they were wiped out around the early 1900s probably actually into the late 1800s but

because they were reintroduced they're thought of as exotic even though they're native to the area right so there's no hunting season on elk this is like one of the only places in the country where there's no hunting season on elk so you could hunt elk the same way you would hunt like a neal guy like a neal guy is an animal from asia i think neal guys are from asia it's a big ass antelope thing that's the size of an elk they're real freaky looking but they hunt them around here 24 7 all year round like russian boars yeah you could hunt it because they're they're considered a non-native species my buddy john asian antelope look at the size of that fucker look at how weird i've never seen that yeah um on uh steve ranella show meat eater they hunted look at that fucking thing that's kind of cool looking dude look at the body that thing it's so weird looks like batman they're really hard to kill though um like uh if you if you hit them

incorrectly they're vitals a lot of these uh asian animals and many of the african animals their vitals are tucked in real close to their arms as opposed to like an elk their lungs go pretty far back because a lot of elk i guess i wonder why they have big lungs maybe because they're getting the mountains all the time or stuff like that they're out there running around see that's the area there's a very small vital area so if you go back from that you're fucked like you're just you got a wounded animal you're not going to catch them um see like look at it like that's a good picture make that a little larger that's good enough see that's where his lungs are and that's where his heart is everything is real tucked up real tight whereas with an elk the lungs really go back as

far as the rib cage does elks have much larger lungs so neil guy like you have to you have to be very accurate or you can wound them you ever go on any of those like see look how far the the lungs go back way back i get you excited not right now i got a lot of meat i'm good for a couple months i love it i love that you're getting the meat for the family and like it i give it away to a lot of people too you do i hear it but it's such a um a man thing to realize that like i provide you know i'm providing i'm i'm getting that if everything collapsed i don't need a phone i can i got my bow and i can hunt and bring food to the table well if the shit hits the fan i'm gonna use a rifle tell you that right now because rifles are guaranteed especially if

you're a good hunter if you get good at bow hunting you you you could really feed your family fairly easily if there's a good supply of game with a rifle with a bow it's a different animal because you got to get inside 100 yards yeah when you're at 100 yards it's just begun you really want to get inside 50 but with a rifle at 100 yards that's a done deal that's a close shot you ever go on any of those uh big game hunts exotic far away places like africa yeah no never been no you're you're about um you're not trophy you're about eating meat yeah i mean i keep the the antlers as a trophy. Yeah, of course. Saw antlers out there.

I got a great taxidermist here. He'll dress them up, put some fabric on it. I don't like that shit. You don't like the fabric? No, the fake. No, no, no, not the head. He does that too. What does he do?

I think they call it a French mount where it's just a little fabric over the skull. And they put the little thing around the horns and it mounts up there. I like the skull with the antlers. You like seeing it all? It's called the European mount.

Right. Yeah, I like that. I like the skull. I like to see the, that's the actual skull from the animal. My grandparents, I was always hundreds

of those little, little European mounts all in their garage and stuff. Yeah. And I got one to this day that my grandma shot

from her sleeping bag, and I hang it above my little kitchen area, and that's my grandma, you know? Yeah. Granny. Yeah, those hunting ranches in Texas are the strangest places on earth because there are thousands and thousands of acres, and a lot of them have these exotic animals that are on the verge of extinction in other places but they're abundant here like uh oryx you know what an oryx is crazy looking

animal scimitar oryx it's like a whitish animal with these big long black horns really cool looking curly they curl no they don't curl but it's like twisty yeah like like that's an oryx oh yeah i see those all the time yeah those fuckers are all the time really difficult to find anywhere else other than texas like an oryx in uh i think they're from africa i might be wrong where where's the oryx from you know there's a great road uh if you're if you're going out to um salt lick and that might be from india if you drive if you drive 12 going towards salt lick there's about five ranches you'll pass and you'll see those you'll see okay you'll see all kinds of things tunisia chad and niger

so those animals in their native habitat are very uh close to extinction they're very uh they're very uh yeah here it it goes. Hundreds of thousands of desert adapted antelopes roam the Sahara and regions of Sahel how do you say that? Sahel, regions of northern Africa, a vast desert due to human

disturbance, overhunting, drought, and loss of food because of excessive livestock grazing. The scimitar horned oryx is now extinct in the wild. Those surveys show that Niger and Chad may have appropriate habitat for reintroduction, and some reintroduction have begun in Tunisia. So the wild ones, the original ones that were there, are now gone. But there's a fuckload of them here in Texas.

Yeah. Well, you got the land. You can do it. I was talking with you about your new idea of looking for property. Yeah. Well, you got the land. You can do it. I mean, that's what... I was talking with you about your new idea of looking for property. I'm going to get a big spot. You should. Out here.

You should. I want to get a big spot for the podcast, too, where I can take people and do crazy shit. Well, when you come to my facility and see, you'll be like, how much for this? It's got everything. We got a full pistol pistol range rifle range set up out there yeah i'll let you shoot all kinds of stuff that's right you were telling me yes do you have a well too we don't because the water's shit is it it's it's a horrible hard hard water so we're on rain water but we fill up 60 000 gallon tanks hard water like full of minerals minerals but

isn't that good for you i doubt it because it'll turn all your dishes white right but isn't the water like drinking that water isn't it good for you i can't imagine i think it'd make fucking calcium to pot salt in your guts and like piss crystals piss crystals i don't think it's good dude really yeah but i'll tell you what the rain water we catch off of our two massive roofs we'll fill up 60 000 gallons with just a small rain really yeah we never run out of water and if you do you can buy more it's cheap right they'll come and fill it put 2 000 gallons in jamie find out of hard water it says it's not a health hazard but i'm trying to see like what what what the badness i don't want crystals in my dick bro you might want to check the arsenic

level it says yeah dude a lot of There's a lot of different minerals. You got to drill 1,000 feet to get good water out there. Really? 1,000. Normal wells are about 700. 1,000 feet is so far. Normal wells are about 700. Really?

Yeah. 1,000 feet down. 1,000 feet? That's like fucking three and a half football fields, isn't it? You have the infinity. No, the trinity. I'm sorry. The trinity wells.

Trinity spring. That's what you're going to. So you have a lot of signs out there that say, Trinity's not infinity, you know? And they don't like all the new development happening and tapping into those. People are tapping into the water. And wells go dry.

People are like, yeah, well, that went dry like four years ago because, you know, the water dropped and the hole's down here. Right. They gotta push it down deeper to strong. Wells always remind me of people. No, you know what it reminds me of? Borat.

Throw the Jew down the well. There is some- So my country can be free. One of our favorite epidemiological studies that show potential correlations between hard water and lower cardiovascular disease mortality because of all the like calcium

and magnesium you're beginning through that son I'm getting healthy but it might be it's just you know it's epidemiological right never know could be just healthy people wind up living in that rural landscape and have lower cardiovascular health or better

yeah there you go well tom why let's wrap this fucking bitch up bring it home um tell people is artofwhite.com is that your artofwhite.com is my website um art of white is my instagram jump on there i could use some followers yeah i am horrible i'm horrible about social media i'm horrible about posting that's probably good people yell at me all the time. They're like, you don't fucking post enough. You don't do this. You don't do that. And I'm like, you know, for me... It's better to be that than to be too

active. For me, I'm always like, I only want to post if I have something fun or cool or art to share. I don't need to post, look at this car wash. Isn't it clean? Like, I don't want to be that dude, you know? And I've unfollowed people. I followed a couple of people that I would like,

musicians that I love, and I'm like, I follow them. And like every other post is like, oh, today my cat is, look at him. And I'm like, done, I'm out. I'm out. I don't want to see your cat. I don't want to see your pussy. I don't want to see none of it.

I'm out. Wow. Well, everybody's different. Some people want to see everything. I know. I don't like it. What kind of vitamins are you taking? Show me your daily stack. Yeah. Pocket show us your pocket oh yeah what's your

daily carry i'm not gonna show you all right well uh listen brother um i'm happy you uh initially inspired me to come out here you were the first person to plant the seed thank you man i'm glad i planted a seed yeah for sure. We weren't even wrestling. Yeah, crazy. It just happens. So we're going to get you out to the school. We got our school in Dripping Springs. Sounds good, dude.

It's going to be kicked up and opened on January 4th. That's when it's going to be fully? Brand new school, yeah. That's the place you built. I watched that on your Instagram. I watched that all built. You built the steel structure, the whole thing. That's the compound.

That's only for elite friends and people. That's the private training facility. Two different training facilities. So that's where you and the SEALs will come over, and Jocko will be there. Jocko's already came over there. Nice. And we're going to start a little run-shoot-fight class

where we roll around. We do a mile, maybe two-mile run on our property. I have it all mapped. Beautiful. DG, decomposed granite path trails terrain up down up down and you run right to your station you pick up your weapon and you do a shooting course and it's almost like scored like a crossfit right instead so it's every week you get to do it again and it may change we'll come up with silly names and uh and it's

run it's head up by all ex-seals. That's a great idea. And so it's really great because let me tell you, fight for 30 minutes, no break. Okay, get a partner equal. Look, we got great people we train with. There's no douchebags where they're like, I'm going to rip your head off for 30 minutes. It's like you're rolling. They'll give.

They'll take. They'll give. They'll take. You're sweating. You're working. Your forearms are at a pump. Bell goes off. Drop your gi top. Keep your gi pants on. on run two miles slide your shoes on right there put your shoes on run two mile loop it's a hard two miles it's not an easy it's up terrain downhill uphill

run it run right to your station at the shooting range the guy's sitting there with a timer go bong shoot your plates bing bing bing bing bing bing and then you get scored and you get scored how what your missus what's your time on the shoot um and then put your weapon down and there's your score and it goes on a log board and so we do that and you know i'm no by far i'm no experts in firearms but i i am a student and i have we have guys that come out and they train with us and they teach us up close and they teach us up-close shooting. They teach us push-off shooting, falling down on your back shooting through your legs. Don't shoot your feet.

Don't shoot your knees. And it's really awesome to get that training from those guys. And why? All because we're on our own property in Texas, and it's private land. We don't have to worry about shit. And you get awesome people. You attract that person. We were starting to get a little too big with some of those classes.

So for a regular jiu-jitsu, we opened up a new school in Dripping right off 290. And it's going to be up and running. I mean, I'm leaving here and going there to work. And it's a mimic of that school. Huge mats and great people. Beautiful. And we want you there. All right. It's in. It's on. Huge mats and great people. Beautiful. And we want you there. All right.

It's in. It's on. Todd White, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, Joe Rogan. My pleasure. Goodbye, everybody. See you. Bye.

Bye. Bye.