The Joe Rogan Experience - #1590 - Phil Demers

Episode Date: January 7, 2021

Phil Demers is a former professional marine mammal trainer and subject of the new documentary "The Walrus and the Whistleblower".

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day it's been a long time we've been doing this my friend how long is it it'll be i so you and i would have met eight years ago just about to the date in a few months, because it will be the eight year anniversary of my being sued by Marineland of Canada for plotting to steal a walrus, which would have been in February of 2013. It's been so long. I hardly remember how we were introduced. I can tell you the story. Please do. When I was sued by Marineland the headlines uh international were quite absurd one of which in the uh said the kanye west of

animal training gets sued for 1.5 and i tweeted to you saying dude they're calling me the kanye west of animal training he's like they're calling you the what and then you but straight to my dm you said dude you got to come to la and we got to talk about this i'm like dude i'm on the next flight let's do it well i've always had a soft spot in my heart for dolphins and orcas and and i just i think we're going to look at i've said this before on the podcast with you but i think we're going to look at in the future the same way we look at slavery i think there makes me sad just talking about it i think i think they're as intelligent as we are i think they're just different and because we don't understand their language we uh we think it's okay and i

think it's it's beyond fucked up watching your documentary made me cry man made me really cry when i was watching that dolphin get force-fed god damn that's hard when they're holding his mouth open and shoving fish in his throat i'm like fucking christ what what is that imagine a person imagine a person i mean you're dealing with an animal that has a cerebral cortex it's 40 larger than a person's can i tell you the story of that animal his name was sam he came in an old male dolphin wild caught from russia and when we received him you only had to take one look and realize this animal is going to reject captivity he's a fucking warrior he's got scars up and take one look and realize this animal is going to reject captivity.

He's a fucking warrior. He's got scars up and down. This is not an animal that's going to accept being told what to do by idiots like me. And you just saw he rejected captivity. We did everything we could

to keep him alive and you know, if you notice in the documentary, I was told to turn the camera off and I said, no, no, this is important. I knew then that a lot of the documentation

of the things that I was taking could prove useful in the future. I didn't have an agenda when I was there. Remember, I was a company guy. But you were a kid. And I was a kid. That's what's crazy about your documentary, The Walrus and the Whistleblower. I'm getting emotional already. I know I came to the right place, Joe.

You've always been the biggest support. And the fact that you answer all my calls, you're one of the last. And I just know I came to the right place, Joe. You've always been the biggest support. And the fact that you answer all my calls, you're one of the last. And I just know I'm in the right place. This is my safe place. And thank you for that, my friend. I'm invested. I'm invested in you and your thing and this project and the fact that Canada stepped up and made all orca and dolphin captivity illegal.

And that doesn't exist without you and I having had done this. The backstory to that is it was an interview with you and I where the senator's son approached the senator and said, is there any way we can help this guy? And then suddenly private members bills was introduced. I got a call saying, hey, we're looking to work on something here. And I was like, absolutely. And that's how the bill got drafted.

It doesn't exist without you and I having spoken. So in every which way, I have you to thank. And the world over has you to thank because the influence that you have had on the passing of this law, and now it's progressing to other countries. Other countries are consulting with. I'm actually being witnessed in Australia. I submitted some witness testimony and whatnot to support a similar ban. And also, I'd like to take the opportunity to take this time to say that there's more

laws coming in Canada. The next law that's been introduced by the same Senator, Senator Murray Sinclair, who's actually retiring, but he now has introduced what's called the Jane Goodall Act, which is now going to extend animal protections and ban the captivity of great apes, big cats, because there's, you know, there's some places

in Ontario, in Canada that are awful that they just breed these cats rapidly. And it's just, it's just not the place to have them. They're riding elephants at a place called African Lion Safari. You're next. Anyways, laws are coming. So Joe, in every which way that I get attributed

with having done all this stuff. I attribute it right back to you. That's the influence of this show. I knew something eight years ago when I was desperate and looking for a place to, where I can speak unimpeded. The media doesn't allow me that. With the lawsuits and everything on me,

a lot of places won't talk to me because they get threatened to be sued. You kept talking to me. And so we're here today in celebration of every which way that you have influenced both my life and the way that we can continue to influence, uh, uh, the state of the fucking planet for these majestic animals. I mean, really let's, it doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize that dolphins, porpoises and whales have, like you say, a higher intelligence. I'll even challenge to suggest that they may be even more emotionally intelligent than we could ever appreciate.

I mean, there's a chance that they're more intelligent than us. So, you know, when you say that watching that dolphin get force fed, I have 12 years of that to process and to discuss and to talk. And it's invaluable that my experience, that I have these open channels to speak and i have them because of you so well i'm thank you joe i'm honored and i'm happy and you you've been here

i mean if we're going back eight years this is literally the beginning of the podcast when it was just you were one of like the first groups of interviews because i was just kind of talking shit with my friends most of the time back then episode 425 it didn't have um i mean it wasn't it didn't have an impact on culture it was just a a silly thing that we were doing and so to talk to you about something that meant something to me and for to see that you've been just fucking swinging duking it out all these years you know when you watch the documentary you get a real sense of how long this has been a part of your life it's crazy goosebumps you've even got though you're even rocking the glasses old man style now i bought these you've been

coming on forever and now you're rocking so gray now you're rocking glasses like this it's it's really nuts man when you look at the the overall time spent battling this out i can't think of another person that's more on the forefront of uh marine mammal captivity than you are and again i have for you to thank for all of that um son i have you to thank i wouldn't have i would just been just talking shit about it i I would, I mean, I never thought that it would have an impact. I didn't, you know, it wasn't a plan. I knew the second you DM'd me, I thought, this is it. This is my chance.

And then years went by and it occurred to me, I'm going to have to go again. This doesn't end. And I came back and then the bills start piling up again. And then I got to come back. This is now the fifth time I've been here. Joe, I will say this. That's crazy. I will say this.

You have the most influential podcast in the world. The fact that I've had to come here five times will tell you just how much abuse that it is that I've endured. Systematic abuse through both the courts. You know, Marineland's lawyer, Andrew Burns, is really good at doing what he does, which is abuse the system. And, you know, by virtue of, I'm still here accruing inordinate amounts of debt for a lawsuit that can easily be resolved. It's a trespassing lawsuit.

I never stepped foot on the property. There isn't an iota of evidence that I've been presented in a multimillion dollar lawsuit against me that I'm able to defend against there's nothing it's all fiction they're literally created a bullshit story about me and are using the courts to in every which way silence me and what's crazy is during this time the owners died from the time you came on the podcast way back eight years ago till now the owner's now dead the guy that you were calling out on the podcast back then and the guy who's in the documentary you see him and you you see his just his demeanor and his

attitude and everything about it's just and now the fact that he's gone but yet the lawsuit rages on and that's what screams that this is now personal lawyers uh their reputation is everything marine land's lawyer thought this would go away a long time ago because it's not and because i've taken a lot of options away from him as i continue down this very long process uh i think he's getting nervous a little bit this has become a hallmark lawsuit in canada a lot of eyes are on on what he's doing and there's going to be a lot more after this and in a lot of ways he's making himself famous for all the wrong fucking reasons but i'm happy to be on the show to help make that happen but there's no good side to keeping those animals

in captivity there's no good side to be running a place like marine land there's no there's no upside it's i mean the video alone if you watch the documentary, the video alone of the damage to their skin when they're using chlorine and seeing those animals bleeding and seeing those animals getting force fed, there's no defending it. You can't defend that. It's not. And we have this concept of intelligence based on our own ability to manipulate the environment around us. Our concept of intelligence is based on our ability to build things and drive a car and fly a plane and that's how we we we need to see manipulation in order to to to believe that it's intelligent life but these animals speak in a way that they've been i mean lily was trying to decipher dolphin intelligence in the 1960s

they still don't know what the fuck they're saying. They've determined that there's some sort of, they have dialects and they have different accents from different regions, but they don't know what they're saying. They still don't. These are insanely intelligent animals. I don't want to say give up on the idea of interpreting language necessarily, but the idea that we can attribute words to their sounds is just not the thing to do. And again, I'm not going to take anything away from scientists who are doing this, of course, but I can attest that in my experience being there, the things that I took note of in terms of how they communicated, I can tell you when a dolphin was sad, angry, excited, all of these things. I can tell you, I mean, I can attribute what I believe that to have been. excited, all of these things. I can tell you, I mean, I can, I can attribute what I believe that to have been now in my experience. Yeah. I would say that that holds true. Is this based on just

being around them and hearing the sounds a lot? Joe, Marine Land was my home. I was 12 years there. I still, to this day, I know I can feel that place. It was my home. Those animals were my family. It just was, it's, you know, it's in life when you take for granted when something is taken from you that you otherwise have. You know, when I left that place, those animals are still on my mind. They have names, they have personalities, they have history with me. And these are some really powerful relationships that I had with the animals. But you introduced the likes of Smooshy suddenly, my walrus. And now I become a freaking mother to her.

I mean, this is where things get really freaking weird. Well, explain that to people that have never seen any of the earlier podcasts. So I'll do a quick run up in 2000. I don't even remember now at this point. 2012, I quit Marineland because the conditions were such that I didn't have much of a choice left. And so I did,

but in doing so, I had to leave a walrus that had imprinted on me. She, uh, she was a baby walrus that came into captivity from, you know, wild caught from Russia. In fact,

you saw the footage of the baby walrus. Is that awful? That guts me. it's awful where they describe how they kill the mother to take away the baby. That footage is, it's scary in any event so my having been there as long as i did and leaving i i haven't felt like i left i felt like there was unfinished business there i'm not leaving my walrus behind i'm just not and so

i'm very different i'm a different person than what i was eight years ago joe when i was coming on here i was a person who was desperate with a story to tell. Eight years later, people know who I am. They know what's happening. There's a film about me now. If there's ever been a time that I have a chance at saving this walrus, it is now or never. How old is she now? She would be 18.

Okay, Joe, I got stories to tell about what's going on. She's 18. I got stories to tell what's happened to her. Okay. Let me just give you a quick update since the book explain the imprinting okay how that worked because what became would know how close you are to this walrus absolutely so what the documentary is crazy when you see that thing glued to you it just won't leave your side she thinks of me every day it's all she thinks about

this is where this is where the tide changes for me with captivity because i am now witness to the trauma of what's become of an animal that's been separated from its mother because I know it. So explain to people who don't understand what that means. Like what happens with an animal when it imprints? Happy to. So herd animals such as walruses that are otherwise in groups of thousands, when their calves are born, they need to imprint on the mother. So what happens is everything about them, every attribution, whether it be the, their smell, uh, what they look like, the sound of

their voice, everything tattoos on that animal's brain so that they're, that baby is able to identify that mother within thousands. It's a scientific process that happens at birth. When Smushi came to us at two years of age, we were doing a procedure on another walrus and it caused her, you know, she was in a heightened state of emotion and whatnot. She was going, she was climbing all the other trainers.

She was being a problem. So I sought to pull her away from that situation. All I did was put my hands in front of her face and she opened her nostrils big. And I knew in that moment something had happened because now she was following me everywhere. And I couldn't have attributed that to anything that I'd ever done in all of my experience. So just the act of getting close to her and putting your hands on her face. I believe it was during that traumatic, whatever happened, her brain circuitry opened. And she realized that you're the one who takes care of her.

I became her mom. And so days go by and, you know, I'm going back there and she's barking for me. And I opened the gate, she's following me. And, you know, she wasn't healthy when we got her. So now I was spending my eight hour to 12 hour shifts actually just sleeping and smooshies laying on top. You see the footage in the documentary. She's just laying beside me.

She would only eat from me. It became this crazy thing. And that's what became, I mean, and that's when, that's when the, that's when the world started to change for me. I don't have children, Joe. I don't, I never did that. I mean, frankly, it's not an opportunity that

would have been allotted to a person like me trying to fight multimillion dollar lawsuits and everything else. I had to put, it's not an opportunity that would have been allotted to a person like me trying to fight multimillion-dollar lawsuits and everything else. I had to put a lot of things on hold in life, generally. My life is on hold in a lot of freaking ways because of what Marineland has done. I mean, you see they're sending the police to my house all the time. I mean, over tweets and shit. And they send the police to your house over tweets. Like, what do the police say when they show up?

Well, these days they leave with fuck Marineland stickers they kind of love getting that call but i don't think they want to be there they don't really want to be there but but why do they have to show up like what are the tweets what are you saying because twitter will ban you if you threaten people i so you're not threatening anybody the tweet that i sent that sent well one of them was life is short steal a walrus and they sent the police well, one of them was life is short, steal a walrus. And they sent the police to my house because I had tweeted life is short, steal a walrus. I tweeted it. I took a shower.

I came back out. I saw the tweet had exploded. I said, oh, that's, that's going to get some attention. And the next day the cops pull up and I said, you gotta be fucking kidding me. So I light up the camera, the video. Of course you got the video in the film. It's at the very end of the film. You see it.

But Marine Land in every which way is trying to intimidate me and take away my voice. How are they still open? If they can't have dolphin captivity and orca captivity anymore. Well, what did they do with the orcas? So by virtue of property laws, those animals are Marine land's property.

They're, um, they're grandfathered in Marine land. The way that the law really, really tied Marine land up with red tape is they're not able to merely export them as they would have. So Marine land the way that the law really really tied marine land up with red tape is they're not able to merely export them as they would have so marine land had plans to just sell these animals to china very there's a burgeoning captivity business going on there's aquariums are opening up all the time that would have been an easy and a quick buck to be made marine land can no longer export with the exception of whether or not it is in the interests of the animals now there were a couple of exports that were, uh,

permitted. Now they haven't happened on account of lawsuits that are happening in the States. Now they're actually trying to stop it. There's a lot of red tape around Marine land, but the biggest one is that they're no longer able to breed whales. And that's everything. Cause Marine land at one point had,

you know, an excess of, uh, of, of 50 into nearly 60 beluga whales. And when you got that many animals, it's difficult to keep track of how many are, are dying every year when as many are being born.

So somehow they always had the same. How many have 50 beluga whales? Where are they putting 50 beluga whales? So the original owner of Marineland was a classic hoarder and he always just wanted more. And he did an every which way to build a big pool and just stuff belugas in there. He's just got multiple pools of belugas and they were breeding rampantly. But for every six that were born a year, two would live and then other older would die.

Marine land doesn't announce and have no oversight that they have to announce these deaths. I'm the ones who I'm the person who announced them. In fact, I recently announced four or five deaths over the summer that Marine land historically used to actually address. If I were to tweet, Hey, this animal's dead within hours, they would release a press release, get ahead of it.

You know, so this was happening. They don't respond to me. No matter fact, Marine lands lawyer issued a public statement. Then, uh, after the documentary come out saying he's no longer responding to me like outright as an actual policy. And even to extend that Marine lens lawyers now refusing to do any communications with my lawyer via telephone, uh,

because it's concerned that Marine lens lawyers knows what's happened to smooshy. There was a plan for her. Now through the court negotiations, I offered Marine land. It's in the documentary. You can see I'm willing to drop my counter lawsuit. I'm willing to drop everything.

Just move smooshy to an appropriate facility. That's all I'd wanted. That's all I ever wanted. What would be an appropriate facility? One where she's not indoors exclusive, alone. She's the last surviving. Can you give me an example of one? Well, I'll give you an example of one that

almost happened. There was a zoo in Toronto and now do I love this plan? No. Do I like it a lot? Yes. They were to have two young female, uh, uh, walruses.

They were to build a brand new facility all happening this year. It was happening last March. In fact, I had a meeting on March 23rd where, which I was supposed to meet with the, the, um, the individuals at, uh, Toronto Zoo with my lawyer. We were hoping to get a letter of intent so that

we can show the judge. And, you know, we had funding. Look, I had, I had a lot of celebrities courtesy of, of the show that were offering inordinate amounts of money to make this happen. Marine land rejects it all. They won't do it. Here's what's become on June 1st, a former employee of Marine land who had been fired inexplicably. She, she herself couldn't quite understand, although we sort of figured it out over some time. She came to me and she said she had things to tell me about Smushi. And the one thing she said that struck me, she said she was pregnant. I said, that's an impossibility.

17-year-old walrus is A. It would be really grossly irresponsible to allow for that to happen. Two. What's their lifespan? Well, in a while, they may go 30, 35 years. At Marineland, they don't last eight to 10. Smoochie is the last one alive. But what Marineland did is they negotiated a deal

to have her transferred out on my birthday. This sounds crazy, but I have the documentation. I maybe shouldn't admit that, but I do. They had plans to ship her out on March 21, my birthday. It failed. It failed because of COVID. They tried two days later. I got a tweet from the CFI,

an anonymous tweet from someone saying, your friends at the CFIA stopped an export to Germany, to a facility. I believe, and I don't want to absolutely attribute it to it, but I believe it's the Tierpark Zoo in Hamburg, Germany. They, you know, I've done some research. They breed walruses. They know how to do it.

This girl says to me, I think like they were treating Smoochie like she's pregnant. It's an impossibility. There wasn't a male walrus alive in the, in the gestation period of a walrus, of a, of a walrus's pregnancy. In fact, the math is such that the last male died at the same time as he would otherwise be getting Smoooshy pregnant. At Marineland. At Marineland.

Now, I worked there 12 years, and at the time, we had like a lot of walruses. They never successfully were successfully bred. In fact, walrus breeding is a very difficult thing in captivity. You need a range of very specific things. You need a certain UV lighting. You need some fresher. You need a number of things. It's a rare thing, and it's a rare thing and it's

quite celebrated when it happens in captivity. I didn't believe her. I wouldn't believe her, but she kept telling me of things that these, that she kept telling me that there were veterinarians from Germany that were there and that they were manipulating her

and it had happened over some time and they were monitoring her. Now, when I put two and two together, okay, we've got an export to, to Germany that's supposed to happen in March, canceled on account of COVID. We've got, okay, we've got an export to Germany that's supposed to happen in March, canceled on account of COVID. We've got a girl telling me now that there's German veterinarians that are manipulating Smushi.

I tweeted, I have something to the effect, I'm paraphrasing, but something to the effect of, you know, I have a good reason to believe that Smushi's been inseminated, like she's been made pregnant. And June 3rd, Marine land tweeted that smooshy had given birth to a calf. There's not been a picture of smooshy

since over a year ago. On account of COVID, smooshy was never taken out. The, uh, the park operated, but you know, obviously there was not a lot of numbers, but they, because of the rules of bill S two Oh three, which we had passed in canada which bans the the captive of uh of whales dolphins and porpoises it also uh limits their performance they they're not actually allowed to perform for entertainment no more uh much of the

advertising is not allowed and whatnot so when i read marine land's press release of what they you know of smooshy's calf birth, which I aptly named June, which was the month she was born and is also the name of the, uh, of Marine Lands veterinarian. Um, they said they were monitoring Smushi carefully and that, you know, these, this, that giving birth is a risky thing. We've not seen a picture of her since there's not

been an iota of an update. In fact, I started to, at one point I tweeted, we've not seen a picture of her since there's not been an iota of an update in fact i started to at one point i tweeted it's time for me to accept that smooshy's probably dead it had been months and whereas marine land used to respond to my tweets with an update of smooshy there was nothing there was nothing now i knew that there was efforts to have her shipped out and whatnot so what happened was social media started getting flooded, Marineland social media. People started saying, where the fuck is Smushi? Not only supporters of mine, people that support Marineland, Marineland's response.

And this is a, this was a national article in all of Canada. They completely ignored everything. All media requests, my lawyer's requests. We just want to know where Smushi is. We want to know if she's still alive. They blocked everybody. They're blocking fans.

They're blocking everybody. People started to call Marine lands lawyer, Marine lands lawyer who has attributed himself as Marine land spokesperson in public was a pallbearer at John Holder's death was now telling people, if you want answers about Marine land, call Marine land. He is Marine land. He's the one that does the answers. Where the fuck isoshy that's where i am at today i don't know with absolute

certainty that she's alive but i should mention that i have been told by a lot of people that she is i have reason to believe that she is i don't absolutely know like how does someone know that who is someone who works there so because the people that work there so so what i should mention is that girl who had told me this information that got fired inexplicably, it turned out because she was like a junior trainer. She was inadvertently in a meeting where

they had gone over the details of the German vets coming in and whatnot. And one of the trainers were actually trying to stop Marine Lands lawyer from revealing too much because that girl shouldn't have been there. And a week later she was fired. She doesn't understand what the hell

happened. I don't know that that's exactly the story because this is what she says to me. Now, you imagine former employees come to me with stories and I typically tell people, if you're a former employee, you're not really good to me anymore. I mean, if you didn't have the gumption

to do something while you were an employee, don't come to me now because I don't know that you haven't been fired because you're a dickhead. I don't know your backstory. I don't know that I'm able to trust your information, but hers came and I did do the tweet and it, it wound up being absolutely, uh,

absolutely true. And so today I sit here and there are a number of Marine Land employees who know, one of which did reach out to me through someone else. Now, I don't know, again, Marine Land tries to set me up very often. They want me to attack, uh, employees. They want to do this to attribute this level of a danger to me so that they

can show the courts, people are afraid to talk because Phil will send a, it's all absolute freaking nonsense, but you know, they got young people there that are now signing NDAs and stuff. You ever imagine you're going to go for your dream job and then you sign an NDA that you're an 18 year old girl that you might be sued for millions of dollars if you reveal anything about Marineland. This is what the employees, the umbrella. Can I ask you something real quick?

Absolutely. What does Marineland do now? If the, if the dolphins can't have shows, the orcas can't do shows. They can do educational presentations. So they can talk about the science of animals. They can speak, you know, they just can't have them do jumps and stuff to music.

Do they still have crowds? Hardly. They really didn't have many crowds before. The thing about a Marine land success is that it was built on one man's vision, one man's shoulders, he owes nobody nothing. He accrued a lot of money and he invested it solely in the park.

He owes, he has debt to nobody and has a lot of money. The he invested it solely in the park he owes he has debt to nobody and has a lot of money the but he's dead he's dead and his son's dead the son is dead there's there is one more son uh in fact i had an interaction how did this 37 year old son die the last time we were on the show you asked me that and did you not tell me i alluded to it um we don't have to say it if you don't want to i was just curious i'll say this i was reached by a lot of people at the time of just prior to his dying and they said you know johnny's really fucked up they're like dude he's turning yellow like he doesn't look right you have to talk to him i was johnny's friend and i didn't i couldn't with the circumstances. I saw what was happening to Johnny. Johnny was a,

Johnny lived under in really difficult, uh, situation, you know, and I can say this because I know what it means to try to make your father proud. When Johnny brought me in to see Smooshy, when Johnny brought me in to see Smooshy when Marineland tried to keep me out, all of Marineland's impending problems, all the ensuing problems that came from my seeing her in the condition she was and then ultimately deciding to speak to the media, all of that was attributed to him. He was now being guilted for... By his dad.

Well, you know, I got to be careful what I say. I should mention that I am lawyered up to shit my lawyers sent me a number of emails of what to say what not to say i didn't do that really i didn't read it that's hilarious i'd love to be dude it's on the wall it's so crazy thinking thinking like what to say to you like i'd love to say the thing that i plan to say that he said no phil that would be not wise. But maybe I'll tell you offline. Well, we could get drunk and then might slip out. Yeah, that might happen.

Joe, I really appreciate you watching the film. Can I just offer some credit to the filmmaker, who I would have loved to have come join, but by virtue of the laws and the travel issues, she, as a young mother with kids, would not have been able to afford the... Do you have to quarantine when you go back? Not only that, I now have to get a negative COVID test, a very specific one within 72 hours. Before you go back?

Before going back, which comes to law tomorrow. Imagine that. Oh, that's funny. For too long, I thought I wasn't able to, I wasn't going to be able to get here, just the way they were just shutting everything down. So do you have to have the PCR test? Yeah, I got to get the PCR test within 72 hours of going back.

And then I got to quarantine for two weeks, but that's okay. I can quarantine because, you know, I got to bust it up, heal. I'm not really doing too much. I've been in my house for the last, I mean, 12 weeks on my back. So I get it.

But again, back to the filmmaker, I just want to stress that when the film was proposed to me, it was proposed. It was actually projects were proposed by multiple filmmakers and I was weighing options. And then when the name Natalie Bebo came up, I recognize that name because when I was a child, one of my best friends,

even today is, is I'll say his name in French. His name is Daniel Bebo. His name's Bebo is what we call him. It's his name in french his name is daniel people his name's b-boy is what we call him it's his last name people's a good friend of mine maybe the craziest motherfucker i know which obviously means genius too but his older sister when we were kids was always the person who was achieving everything in high school like we didn't i mean there was enough of an age gap that i knew of her i didn't know her personally very well but you know we

didn't hang in social circles and whatnot, you know. But nonetheless, when her name come up, she comes from the same city as me. I'm from a small town, Welland. I now live in beautiful Chippewa, Niagara. When her name came up, I thought, aye, aye, aye, this is someone that's going to understand me. You know, people get Phil fatigue very quick with me. I get it. I can understand it.

They get what? Phil fatigue. I'm hated. Phil fatigue. If you spend too much time with... I thought it was a word I hadn't heard before. I was like, what's that? Phil fatigue. You'll get it, Joe. I'm hated. Fill fatigue. If you spend too much time with- I thought it was a word I hadn't heard before. I was like, what's that? Fill fatigue. You'll get it, Joe. I'm sorry. Fill fatigue.

Two words. Well, Marineland fatigue exists too. You have incredible endurance. Like to be able to do this for as long as you've done. I mean, I think about you all the time. I really do. I think about the struggle that you've been under for all these years and how crazy it is and how much stress it must be putting on your life. And we actually talked about that before the show, like that you lost weight and you just, it's an insane amount of stress. And to be going through it for, what are you like 40 what now? I'll be, you know, it's crazy. I thought I was turning 42 in March in march i'm turning 43 i lost an entire year of

my life i don't remember 2020 you have been involved in this for almost half of your life if you look at the percentage it's a large percentage of my life it's insane inordinate there's very few human beings who are like you who would have done what you've done because most people would have just moved on with their life that's what's so crazy is you just keep enduring and they don't have a daughter who's being held hostage i know this sounds crazy it's how i feel i'm in a hostage situation that's their bargaining chip they want my ass and they're willing to harm me in the worst possible way to do it well i don't negotiate with fucking terrorists it's a war that's why i'm here i'm like aquaman diving down to the bottom of the fucking ocean to go get the weapon right now i'm here today to get my fucking weapon that's why i'm here i'm like aquaman diving down to the bottom of the fucking ocean to go get the weapon right now i'm here today to get my fucking weapon that's how i feel like aquaman having to

travel the states in this covid crazy world to go get my fucking weapon and i am here to get it joe i'm here to get my weapon this walrus like if you can get her out where can she go like you you were in the middle of describing what they were trying to do in Toronto. So by virtue of COVID, that I understand those plans went a little bit wayward. You know, if Smushi were involved in that plan, that plan takes off tomorrow. If there's funding tomorrow to make it happen, Toronto Zoo will make it happen tomorrow. I thought this was an ideal situation because it meant there are no male walruses. It meant she wouldn't be bred because I know the dangers of breeding such a, uh, an older animal,

especially a first time mother. It was, I mean, what Marine land did to her is, uh, could be arguably one of the worst things they could have done. It was the riskiest thing that they could have done. So my hope was to keep her from,

keep that from happening to her in whichever facility that she went to. I knew Marine land had ulterior motives in which facility they would send, you know, they want to send her across, you know, they want to send her to Europe. They want to send her to China. They want to send her anywhere but North America.

They're perfectly suitable outdoor facilities. There's a beautiful one in, I mean, I don't want to start naming all the facilities because I don't want to be endorsing zoos to be honest. I mean, I'm not a big fan of zoos. I get it.

But Marine smooshy right now lives in a fucking bathtub. It's a cesspool. It's disgusting. It's not the in a fucking bathtub. It's a cesspool. It's disgusting. It's not the size of this room. It's, it's twice this table and about the same depth. I mean, she lives in literal walrus hell. All the fucking animals do in Marine land. Their facilities are atrocious and awful.

You saw the back, you know, there's some footage backstage of it. This is not an environment that is conducive to health for animals. So all I want is for her to live in an environment that is A, that I'm able to see her. Because that is everything. To her and me. To her health, mental health, and well-being, absolutely. I want that back.

I want her outdoors somewhere. I would love to see a temperate climate somewhere where it's, you know, where it's, where she's not performing. I mean, there's video of her performing while pregnant in 90 degree weather two summers ago. How the fuck do you rationalize that? She's a walrus. You saw the footage, Joe.

Again, I have to go back to the documentary where I speak of Zeus, the walrus, and I attribute just how much I've been, I've been trying to raise attention over what's happening to this animal. And you see him, you see him moments before he died. You marine land's press release where they say he's healthy and everything you know that was footage that was taken backstage by someone who probably is not working at marine land anymore as you can imagine i don't know for sure but once that documentary very unhealthy he was unhealthy for years i there's an argument to be made that I was deemed a problem employee by Marine Land when I was speaking up for Zeus. Because it was Zeus that was, that got me and John Holer, that created our divide. Whereas John Holer, the owner of Marine Land and I were together on things. When it just became the point where this walrus was, I mean, this was an awful situation.

You only have to see the footage to know it. That's when our divide started. That's when I was deemed a problem employee. In fact, the HR girl called me and that's when I went from a supervisor to suddenly things were changing for me. And, uh, you know, swim tests that I had, uh, I needed people to pass in order to actually

work with dolphins and stuff were thrown out by the wayside. And suddenly, you know, I'm a supervisor, someone gets sick or rather someone gets hurt. I could be liable for like a $25 thousand dollar fine like why am i putting people that can't swim in with dolphins doesn't make any fucking sense i'm not taking this liability so i didn't i had just i they made things very uncomfortable for me i used to be a scuba diving supervisor i was no longer that it became evident that there was some because i started to speak

too much on behalf of the animals i had been deemed a problem employee so I think that the writing for me was on the wall before I left. I think when I left, it was maybe just before they might've done something, which would have discredited me. Had I left and they'd fired me, I wouldn't have a voice today. I left on my own accord. They had to catch up to what I had to say and they never did. We're eight years ahead and they have yet to debunk a single solitary thing I've said in fact. Let let me ask you this what do they want

like this lawsuit revenge but what but what is specifically do they want like what are they saying in the lawsuit they're trying to sue you for money so they're suing me for 1.5 million dollars and what's the basis of that joe you're looking at a guy who's yet to see an iota of evidence against him i understand but what is what is the case that they're saying like what are they saying you know they've they're they're meant to so the way lawsuits typically work is uh let's say i have a dispute with you and i believe you owe me money i will make my claim i will attribute uh uh evidence to it and then you will defend against it and the judge will make it, uh, his, their finding.

And what they'll do is they deal with property, property, money, things like that. When Marine land sued me for money in every which way that we have moved forward, all they've ever wanted was for me to sign something that would take away my voice. That's not what courts do. It's not a remedy that the courts can offer yes between negotiations we

can we can figure out anything to throw these things out right but the courts don't remedy the issues that we're dealing with uh as per me wanting the walrus and them wanting me to shut up this is not how it works it's just not this is not something that a judge can even say a judge can't look and say okay well we're taking your voice and we're giving him the walrus it just isn't it's always a matter over property so they're suing me with a bullshit lawsuit like imagine it to be to have exactly zero credibility there's nothing so how's it still going on because courts are such that you as a plaintiff or defendant are offered uh a lot of remedies that take a lot of time and can spend a lot and can cost a

lot of money. COVID really did set things backwards for us. I mean, we did in the eight years now that we've been in litigation, Marine land has tried in every which way to avoid what's called discovery, where we actually exchange documents. We did discovery. And again, Marine land didn't want it. They have fought in every which way and every step's called discovery where we actually exchange documents we did discovery and again marine land didn't want it they have fought in every which way and every step of the way and spending an ordinance amount of money to try to keep me from getting anywhere but the judges as we continue she makes provisions and and you know i've kicked marine land's ass every time we go to court they they wind up owing me money and stuff and i wind up reinvesting that

money right back to kicking their ass i love it I love when they pay to destroy themselves, but after we got through all the discoveries, the next step is to go to trial. My team, what we did is called pass the trial record. We told the judge,

we're ready. We've now gone through every step of litigation over the eight years. We are now, it's time to go to court. Marine line in the 11th hour, and this is as we speak, have proposed a motion that they want to change everything of the lawsuit.

Despite the fact that we've already done discoveries and it is done. And when discoveries are done, each party has an option to ask more questions and to disclose more evidence and whatnot. Marineland waived that. They were done. It's time to go to trial. you know, to disclose more evidence and whatnot. Marineland waived that.

They were done. It's time to go to trial. By all, by every standard of what a lawsuit is, we are ready for trial. In the 11th hour, Marineland decided to put in a last minute motion that the judge will hear anytime. She may very well be hearing today. I don't know. I mean, probably not.

I would have heard from my lawyer if that was the case. But there will be a time when Marineland will try once again to introduce a motion that I will I will have to defend their latest motion after eight years of trying to ruin my credibility through evidence or testimony of people, all this stuff. They won't. Now they want to do a thing called a, um, they want to do a thing called a, uh, I can't remember what it is, but it's a different type of judgment.

It's a judgment that where it, judgment where it doesn't require any evidence. Rather, it doesn't require testimony. There's no gray area. It's a determinants that's made by the judge based on the evidence in front of them. Now, there's nothing there, but Marine Land is trying to make this happen. Now, I'm speaking with my judge. He says it's not an impossibility that it happened. It's not even necessarily something we hate because it does.

You're speaking with your lawyer, you mean? With my lawyer and speaking of what the fuck becomes of this. How is this not the case that we're not going to trial? I don't understand what, what are the possible outcomes of this? He gives me the options of what this

looks like down the road. But what Marine land is trying to do is they want to reopen all of this, this does its discoveries after already waving that right for the last time. They're looking for remedies where they're starting over the lawsuit eight years in. They're trying to completely reconstruct

as if it's a different thing. So they're basically trying to drag you out. That's exactly what they're doing. They're thinking eventually you're going to get tired of living your whole life for this Marineland lawsuit and you're going to tap out. And I don't understand how they're still

thinking that that could be the case. All I've done is attribute more and more. Well, here's some insight. The longer they do this, the longer that lawyer can exist without the loss. So the thing is, he doesn't have the loss on his record. You nailed it, dude. And he's also padding his, he's putting money under that mattress. He's getting money from, look, that's what divorce lawyers do.

You know, unscrupulous divorce lawyers will like go, hey, Phil, I don't think you want to settle with her. Listen, she's got a new boyfriend now. He's been talking in her ear. I think you should ask for more money. I think you need more. I think she's going to try to take it away from you. And then the lawyer will go to her and go, you know, Phil is not a good guy. And, Phil, you know, Phil, like, the way you think about him now, you guys, do you think you're friends?

You think you're going to be friends five years from now when he doesn't want to pay you anymore? Listen, we got to get as much as we can right now up front and they keep it going. They keep it going. They keep it going. They keep it going. They try to keep it going because they have a vested interest in continuing the lawsuit. If they continue the lawsuit, they continue the income.

So this guy's doing that. I would imagine. I mean, I this guy's doing that i would imagine and he's i mean i don't know but i would imagine it's wise to say you don't know and you wonder but and i'll say the same wonder i'll say the same i'll speculate i'm going to speculate as well that and i speculate in the documentary that i don't think marine lands owner the uh the heir the the wife of the now deceased owner john holder i don't think she's getting uh i don't think she's getting a full picture of what's happening in fact and i don't know that much of the decisions that are being made by her they probably don't want to lose either

like if they lose like that's not good because then you go hey i fucking won the walrus is out and then marine land gets another shot and another black eye i I don't see that. I only see win, win, win. I see Marine Land saying, Smooshy is the last walrus. She now has a calf. We need to find a better place for her. We're doing it on our own accord without Phil who gives a shit. They could say whatever the fuck they want. Well, let me ask you this. Let's look at it this way.

If I gave you a magic wand and I said, do whatever you'd like with Marine Land, what would you do? Like, what if this this lawsuit the way it ends up is you own marine land if i own marine land the first thing i would do is try to find it was the first thing i would do is sell a chunk of it get some money fund the whale sanctuary project get that fucking sanctuary built and i'd start making plans to get those animals in there let's start rehabbing them not necessarily for release but for give them that semblance of uh of a natural life we talked about this the last time you were here we talked about this the idea to do something rehabbing them, not necessarily for release, but for give them that semblance of a natural life. We talked about this the last time you were here. We talked about this, the idea to do something in

the actual ocean, in the wild, where you establish some sort of an intermediary step between having these animals captive and then getting them more and more accustomed to being wild. And it exists. And so we're at the, I say we, but the Whale Sanctuary Project is at the permitting phase. They've got the location decided and they believe that they will have residents by 2022. I will say this. There are Marineland whales that are being considered for it. Whether Marineland likes it or not, there's aspects of having to deal with the government that Marineland doesn't love

and they don't love that i may be a little bit of a voice in that corner and it's something they may be learning today but uh my negotiations run deep marine land was uh marine land inadvertently empowered me with uh a lot of influence and uh i've wrapped them in red tape in every which way that i can in the hopes, of course, that they would do the right thing because the right thing is what they can do with those whales. They can do the right thing. They can release them in their best interest to

a sanctuary. Right. But how do they stay open? How do they stay alive? Like, are they earning an income right now? Yeah. I mean, they're, they're, they're actually, as we speak, they're going, they're moving away

from marine mammal captivity. If you go to their social media, they rarely speak or post pictures of their animals. It's more often new rides are coming and, you know, they try to stress the education aspect of what's still there. Well, they claim adjustment, but there's really not a lot happening. They have to kind of adjust for the new laws either way. They can't be bringing in these new Russian-caught whales and dolphins. Can't breed them. If they, if they're caught bred.

So, so the, the whale gestation periods are such that the last round of Marineland whale births, which again happened during COVID time. So it just became a little bit more of a complicated thing to monitor. Um, if they, uh, breed any whales anymore or dolphins, which they can't, they've only got five female dolphins, but they've got a number

of belugas. If they breed them, it's now, they're now subject to a hundred thousand dollar fine and a criminal fucking, uh, and, and, and, and, you know, some criminal aspects to it. So they're in trouble. They, and we have forced them in ways to evolve. Now, because the original owner is gone, his

vision is now moot. Um, I don't know that Marineland isn't actively trying to be sold and maybe try to make their brand a little bit more uh uh attractive because there was a time last year over the two years ago over the course of the summer where they'd marine land had sort of requested that i not tweet they requested i? I'll say that. So what does that mean? It was just something that they wanted that if I did in good faith that maybe I was going to get something

at the end of it. How big? I have to be, unfortunately. I get it, I get it. My lawyer was adamant about that and that is what it is. But they asked me not to tweet over the course of a summer. I said, well, let me see.

Anyways, bottom line is it didn't, we didn't come to an agreement. And what's great about that is within one week, I put two, one million hitter viral videos of, of what was happening to Marine Lands animals. And there's exactly what I promised them. I just said to them, I said, look, you want me to not tweet? I'm just going to tweet more. It's like, let's work together here. Let's get something to go.

Let's find our happy medium. We're not meeting in the middle here. We're just not. It's not going to happen. So I was very happy to attribute a lot of awful, awful, awful things. In fact, that tweet, Life is Short to Steal a Walrus, came only a week after our sort of failed agreement. And and that's what marine land does it seems more than not they they just keep making

serving up these beautiful mistakes my way that i just capitalize on and bring a lot of attention is the documentary out right now the documentary is out and available now i will tweet where's it where can one get it there's a number of places i can you get it on netflix you can't get it on netflix yet there was some talk now again i'm not on the business side of this i was just i was uh i was filmed i understand can you get it on apple tv you can get it on apple tv let me actually get the list of the places that it can be uh uh watched it's quite in the states it's it's a lot more than in canada in canada right now i believe it it's iTunes. I believe it's, you know, YouTube.

There's a number of things. But here in the States, you can watch on Apple, Amazon Prime, YouTube, Google Play, Vudu, Fandango. Now, I don't know these names. Microsoft. If you've got a VPN

in any other country, go ahead and watch it. And if you find a place where you can steal it, go ahead and steal it. I have absolutely, I make zero money from this. I have no interest other than having eyes on it. in every which way that's what i want i just

need friend gave us this beer yes that is some wacky ass beer that needs a fucking wine opener yeah welcome to my world this guy gives me this beer i'm always like come on dude it's but but it has a a cap and a cork like he's doubling up wine condos or rather beer connoisseurs You know these guys come show up to my house and they're bringing things called saison's and I'm just like dude I drink old Vienna. I drink it just the old beer. They're they're hardcore out here in Texas There's a lot of these micro breweries and people that make their own beer so people can get it Amazon Prime iTunes Those are the two big ones. That's a UK to Even know that that existed. Yeah, so there's plenty of places to watch documentary bring some tissues

because you're gonna fucking cry i do hope though there is uh there's a big part of me that hopes that it gets on netflix i mean there is a buzz about the film and i don't see how it won't but that netflix factor you know what that does to films oh yeah you know what that could do look at it did for tiger king oh dude and you know for a while to films? Oh, yeah, baby. You know what that could do? Look at what it did for Tiger King. Oh, dude. And you know, for a while, a lot of the places were like, hey, meet the Tiger King of Marine Line or of Dolphins. I'm like, fuck, no, I'm not that.

Who's the girl? What's the girl's name that's like the one who's killing everybody? Yeah, that's me. I'm Carole Baskin. They got it wrong. I'm like, no, I'm not the fucking. Yeah, I don't know if you want to be Carole Baskin, bro. No, I don't want to be, but they got it way wrong with Tiger King.

I'd rather be Carole Baskin than him. Yeah, I don't think you want to be Carole Baskin No I don't want to be but they got it way wrong with Tiger King I'd rather be Carole Baskin than him I don't think you want to be Carole Baskin I'll be Phil Demers Should we put these in glasses? How do you do this? It seems like these are little tiny ass glasses They're not the wine glasses that were suggested That's outrageous Your friend is outrageous with that suggestion

There it goes, okay, napkins please Let's already get a little beer on the table. It's good for the finish. It's good for the patina. Joe, I want to just, while we're in a chill mode here, I just want to say something that I did last week. You know, despite how awful and crazy my life is,

there's always these flashes of beautiful lights and whatnot. And one of which was last week, and crazy my life is there is some there's always these flashes of beautiful lights and whatnot and one of which was last week i was uh i participated with something uh with your good time big time bud robin black who uh was a karaoke friend of the show and did this punk rock karaoke i think we're a band now i talked to him i said dude i want to do this let's be a band and robin black come back says dude i've always wanted to listen to me people love you don't fuck that up now with this how does that fuck that up being a punk rock is fucking fun as shit dude this is what i here's what i'm kidding don't make them listen to your any chance i got to go put some fuck marine land sticker and that's oh so you guys did it like on

zoom yeah no we did a karaoke song yeah yeah we did it zoom but this is something we're gonna carry over man we're gonna do a band how crazy is this when the world becomes normal you're gonna see robin black and the Binks. Oh, my God. Is that what he calls it? He is so invested in that word, Bink. He's so great, man. I love it.

And the energy he brings, I mean, look at this. What people don't know about Robin Black is he actually used to be in a band that I used to go see in the 90s called Robin Black and the Intergalactic Rockstars. So the fact that I'm sitting here now playing with Robin Black and we're going to be Robinin black in the binks is dude i'm having such a good time with this shit i need this stuff you know crazy as it is watch it i and look at how is there anything more rock than kicking off a roll of toilet paper with red crocs come on uh yeah there's a few drugs and yeah well getting arrested we did all the good ones in the 90s a lot of things that are more rock than that bro oh i love it look at that so much fun it's very cute thank you shout out to robin that's a hell of a shirt he's jack oh dude he goes for it

i knew he was the right guy to recruit because i knew he'd go for it man i just remember his performances in the 90s they were legendary so punk rock karaoke check it out robin black and the binks like i said people like you don't fuck this up with this make him watch this phil fatigue it's coming all the time phil fatigue thing is real well the strange thing about it people are fatigued of you but i mean just trying to keep up with you i don't know how the fuck you have the energy to continue all this i really like i said about you know that i i think about you a lot and what you what you've done i really do i don't understand how a person can dedicate that much of their life to this one cause and and and have that kind of energy that you've had

and so whereas a lot of people ask me exactly that they call me egotistical they say i want to thanks cheers they say i want to be famous they say all these crazy ass shit i get it i mean i'm an easy person to criticize i do got a big big ego. It gets to my fucking head. I get it. But everybody's easy to criticize. I would just wish that people could attribute. You'll understand me more if you were a walrus mom. That's just the only thing I can say of it.

You'll get Phil fatigue because it's got to be boring to listen to the shit that I say. I get it. You're not going to relate. And I also am combative and I am reactive and I'm all the awful things. So Phil fatigue is real. In fact, a lot of people don't talk to Phil anymore. That's okay. The vegans, especially.

So now you're using, you're talking in third person. Now you really are the Kanye West of Wallace. That is the fatigue, dude. That's the fatigue. Listen, there's nothing wrong with it. Is it cool if I light this like I would a joint? I mean, I don't smoke a cigar all the time. Yeah, you light it like you just light it, man.

Wow, this beer is crazy. Did you drink some of this? No, not yet. Cheers. Salud. Thanks again, Jones. This does not even taste like beer. Like, what is that?

It's sweet, eh? Yeah, it's crazy. It kind of tastes almost like a wine taste to it. Like, what is that? It's sweet, eh? Yeah, it's crazy. It kind of tastes almost like a wine taste to it. What kind is this one? He gave us a couple of them. He gave us some wacky labels that you need a fucking magnifying glass to read, too. Try reading that. Actually, there's no words on it.

That's why you can't read it. It's just art. Like I said, my friend Adam's here. He brought the beers. He brings beers every time I see them, and every time it's an 8.5 alcohol. It's not a beer. It's a bottle of wine. I don't know.

What are we calling this beer for? Shout out to Adam and shout out to Foundation Cigar Company for hooking us up. And then they gave me a painted box. Look at that. Hand painted. It's very cool. With my face with some wacky earrings. When I start wearing earrings like that, you know I've lost it.

Well, then maybe I'll start wearing them before you. Sounds like. What are you going to do when this is all resolved? Do you ever wonder about that? A lot of people ask me exactly that. And for a long time, I didn't know. I don't know. You know, there's an element of what I do that is considered animal rights.

And the animal rights people, if you will, will celebrate the work. And also very often criticize it because i'm a meat eater but i am in every which way trying to distance myself from being a noted animal rights activist as just a dude who took on a fucking challenge so what i am looking at in the future in every which way that i consider it i do consider a podcast i think that'd be fun like um you know you and i discussed the possibility of my doing a podcast we discussed and of course with the with the ever sort of looming lawsuits i get like this transcript of our speaking right now will be seen by a judge it just is so the timing hasn't been great for me to do it but i have finally resolved

that i do know what it is that i want to do in terms of the context of a of a podcast and i've i've only at this point secured to social medias and everything, but, uh, you know, the concept is I'd like to start something called the uphill battle podcast. And the name Phil is an uphill, which I fucking love. And it's going to be great to market, but, and I just want to talk to people all walks of life in every which way that they rose up to a challenge because, you know, before Joe Rogan was Joe Rogan, there's a story of when you were curled up somewhere with dreams and, and, and you were facing some hardships and whatnot, you know?

And I want to hear from all walks of life. In fact, it doesn't require to be a celebrity for a second. I appreciate that people like to hear from celebrities and whatnot, but everyone has a story. And so, whereas I used to be identified as an animal rights guy, these days I am more

inclined of just being known as a guy who's done this thing, right? So I'm trying to sort of get away from that. The term animal rights is a heavy term. Unfortunately, it carries with it a lot of other activity and behavior. I'm not a vegan. It just ends there for a minute. Well, when you were on the documentary grilling steaks in your backyard, that became painfully obvious.

And then when years ago we were talking about how you and I ate at Antler, shout out to Michael Hunter, who is the chef and owner of Antler, which is an amazing restaurant in Toronto, that became famous because there was a bunch of protesters outside of Antler and Michael decided it would be a fun thing to butcher a deer in front of the window i remember it those are uh those were my people until they uh well until you and i took that selfie in front of antler and you know what's interesting about that is joe antler actually serves up some of the greatest vegan dishes out there so delicious

the vegan sides are great they don't they kill not nearly as many animals as all the places that the vegans are now taking i call them selfie burgers they're all in front of a and w hey look at this burger look at this it's like kentucky fried chicken look they got a vegan burger now go to it's like whoa dude do you have any idea what the fuck you're paying for now you know how many chickens get slaughtered at kentucky fried chicken and you're gonna sit there and promote it and i'm taking a picture in front of a place that literally hunts and kills very few animals. Like fewer than any of these crazy franchises that you're taking selfie burgers in front of. It just blows my mind. The hypocrisy.

I get it. There's hypocrisy in everything. Yeah. It's a weird hypocrisy. You know, they want people to eventually move away from eating meat. The thing is, it's like I can understand not wanting factory farming. When you want an animal to not die from hunting, that is arguably the best death it could ever have.

Do you know, like, how many animals live of old, live and die of old age in the wild? I'm with you, Joe. I'm with you because I don't ignore these facts. Zero. I'm not making a convenience. I'm not conveniently ignoring that fact. I do know it. No animals in the wild die of old age.

I mean, maybe like one in a million. Yeah, but they get eaten. Yeah, they get eaten. They still get eaten. Or they starve to death. Or they die freezing to death. Or they die of disease. Or they get injured.

You know, like, this is just the way the world works. If human beings stop eating animals animals it doesn't mean animals suffer less now if factory farming ends it does mean animals suffer less and we're all on the same page there i think humane treatment of animals is it's imperative whether it's animals that we consume or animals that we treat as pets or or whatever it is. Humane treatment of animals is, it shows who we are as culture. It's the thing, you know, if I were, and I'm not trying to tell people how to do things, but I would look at alternative means, and this is going to sound maybe crazy, but you know, animals get hit by cars and shit all the time.

It's pretty awful. Why aren't they grabbing that meat and maybe harvesting it? Why isn't there some type of like... Well, they are. They are in most parts of the United States. And to me, that should be a vegan initiative. The vegan should be behind something of such being like, okay, now we've got a dead animal.

I'm just saying there's ways. There's not enough really to feed people. It doesn't replace the system, but it could make a vegan happy. It could be like, hey, we are making changes. Look, this is now meat being consumed that is completely cruel. It is an accident. It is like we can attribute that its death wasn't, you know, whatever it is that the vegans tend to attribute.

I'm just trying to think outside the box, right? Yeah, that's not going to solve the meat consumption problem. But, you know, nor is these fake meat burgers. These things are not healthy. No matter what anybody tries to pull. Like if they can clone meat, then we're talking a different story. If you're talking about lab-created meat, but these vegan beyond meat things or whatever these things are,

come up with a name. What you're dealing with is monocrop agriculture, which is not good. It's not healthy. It's terrible for the topsoil. It's terrible for the environment. It's an unnatural environment to have one crop planted for thousands and thousands of acres it's just not normal it's not how things are supposed to be in the wild and if you don't think that things die during the processing of those combines and shit those baby deers getting mulched up i know you know like i have the arguments against the vegans the shame of it all is i don't care to take it i'm

not a spokesperson for factory farming i'm just not of course i'm with you i'm the same way of course i want to get that's why antler is like protesting against antler so stupid it made them famous yeah it made them famous congratulations and this is the other thing that pisses them off it's also really good it's a really good restaurant it's one of my favorites no question about that it's uh you know it's unfortunate because i agree with a lot of vegans on how they feel about animals and how they feel about, particularly, again, factory farming, about animal cruelty. But I also look, you know, we've got some cold hard realities in this country about pesticides, just what that does. Just look, I eat vegetables. I eat fruits.

just what that does just look i eat vegetables i eat fruits like what what is what horrors are involved in the processing of millions and millions of pounds of avocados what are the horrors that are involved in the processing of millions and millions of pounds of corn and what about the fucking animals habitat displacement i mean forget about it that's a lot of that's a big problem i mean farming, you know, and retakes the habitat from these animals that are otherwise thriving. It's like, I get it. It's one of these deals where there is, we need to find a happy medium.

And I think that's logic. There just needs to be a, there needs to be a point where we can look at things logically and not attribute so much bias. But I'm just as guilty as the next guy. We'll tell you that marine land is a fucking hellhole. And the next person will be like, but I love marine lands.

I mean, I get it. We all have biases and whatnot. I just feel like have biases and whatnot uh i used to take my kids to the zoo when they were little and he used to bum me out hardcore and uh i wrote about it years ago i wrote about it um in my blog i think i just called it animal prison because i was high as fuck and i went to went to the zoo and i was watching these chimps and i was just like this is just so strange it's so strange seeing these these chimps like trapped in this place when you realize like they have the intellect of like a four or five year old person i mean and here they are trapped in this horrible environment where people are just staring at them it's so like their their

brains are not tuned in for that like the way an animal is if something's staring at them something with eyes in front of its head it's staring at them they're in danger that's a predator or that's someone challenging their territory yourself in that animal's shoes for a moment and it took a pot cake or whatever it is that you went out and saw that and it's you know it takes people to have to you have to shed all the things that the industry has tried to convince you remember they control the message they had commercials they had radio jingle it's not even

whether or not they control it it's just what's what we're accustomed to you know we're accustomed to going to zoos and my kids used to love it and they you know when you're a little kid you get a chance to see a giraffe giraffes are the only animals that i've said i had a bit in my act about it but like they don't seem to mind the zoo at all like they're the only animal where they'll let babies feed i'll say the same thing about seals and sea lions they're just not they

don't require that much i mean if as long as you're not burning their eyes out with chemicals you can really give them a life that, you know, they may not necessarily thrive, but they actually could. It wouldn't take much of a small design of sorts to totally accommodate certain animals. And I'm not opposed to zoos that create an environment where the animals are capable of thriving. Now, that's a rarity.

It's almost impossible. You can have these large parks where these animals can move around. But I'm also with you with the big cat thing. Like, you know, Texas has more tigers in captivity than all the wild of the world. You're in the big cat capital of the world. I was looking out the play and I was looking for some cage. You might see some tigers. That's crazy to think.

You might see some fucking zebras. I can't believe we're in Texas right now. How crazy is this? This place is wild, man. But it's also free it's there's there's freedom here that's it's it's a there's an interesting catch-22 involved in that like i i see how the freedom is beneficial and i see how it could be a problem but i think the the problem should be worked out with discussion not with laws the problem should be worked out with morals and ethics and people figuring out what makes you feel good and what makes you feel bad.

You know, what's the right thing? What's the wrong thing to do? Not by some politicians and someone forcing you to do things. They're all paid for, I have to say it, but they are. I mean, you're witness to that in the documentary. You see there's a senator that is doing every, by the way, I'd love to make him famous again, Senator Don Platt.

In fact, the last time we were here, I gave him the, you know, I flipped him a proper bird because of every which way that Marine Land tried to buy him to actually, in every which way, thwart democracy because this is a law that was widely supported in every which way this man tried to kill it. And I want to say one thing. I'm now traveling from Canada to the States.

And I'm getting a lot of grief for it because it's COVID times. And people are saying, you know, you're not supposed to do that now. I'm COVID free. We know this to be the fact. I've got a bunch of different laws that come into place. In fact, tomorrow now I got to take a COVID test within 72 hours of arriving to Canada. I got to quarantine for two weeks. But didn't Senator Don Plett, who right before Christmas went and told everyone, don't travel,

don't visit your family. Didn't that motherfucker pack up and go to Mexico? Did he? Yes, he did. And just two days ago, the article came out. So I am smiling ear to fucking ear that I can talk about it right here. There's so many of these hypocrites. There's so many of them.

There's so many of them. And it's, and you know, what's funny is how they try to hide it. They're all, I mean, some of them. How so many of them and it's and you know what's funny is how they try to hide it they're all uh i mean some of them how do you hide it i would one guy was in this one guy they want the i don't want to get this wrong but the ontario i believe it someone in the ontario legislature that was high i believe it was like in a finance minister of sorts i just don't want to get the title wrong he was actually in front of a fucking screen with like Christmas bullshit behind him. And you could hear the waves crashing behind him. And it went viral. Really?

Yeah. And he was number two. He's the number two person in the Ontario legislature, which is province of Canada. He had to step down. He had to. There was waves in the background. There was waves in the background. There was waves out there.

You can hear the waves. You're like, come on. Bro, they busted the mayor of Austin. The mayor of Austin told people now is not the time to relax. While he was in Cabo. He made this video in Cabo when he flew on a private jet with eight other people. Now is not the time to relax. But I'm relaxing, bitch.

Airports are empty. I've never flown so smoothly. I've never had. I'm just saying. I'm not the problem. They're up. They're up. Anyways.

Anyways, if you get a chance to go and tell Senator Don Platt to go fuck himself on Twitter, I know that he'd be most appreciative, especially I would be

most appreciative. That guy deserves it. What was his argument for trying to keep these parks open? What was the argument for trying to stop this bill that was

going to ban dolphin and whale and porpoise captivity? That's a conversation that you have to have with him and probably Marineland's then owner and maybe lawyer. I don't know what incentivized him to do it. I feel for him to be in a situation where someone's pressuring you to do that.

Don't. I will say he's that piece of shit. I don't know him, but I honestly do feel for anybody that's put in the position by their whether you say constituents or special interests he's like a staunch conservative so i think he see he saw this again he was going with marine land that this was a uh activist driven agenda and that it was like my fucking law and that and that my credibility needed to be let they tried to attribute they tried to say that I was full of this I will say this in everything that Don Plett said

about me which Marine Land said he was protected because in the in the legislature you can say what you will and you are free of any legal ramifications if he had said any of the fucking things he said to me outside of that as a private citizen I could take his fucking pension I'd sue his fucking

brains out but I can't so the guy's savvy in the way that he does and says the things that he does. So it's just a big game to them. It's like, there's just people out there whose role is to fuck shit up. And Marine Land found the right guy and he tried, but we won. But we won. It's just, I really do believe that when history looks back on these days where people had dolphins and whales in captivity, they will they will look back on

it in a very similar way to the way we look at slavery or you know like imagine if aliens came from another planet and they they didn't understand what the fuck we're saying so they just decided to put us in captivity i mean the way is there an argument that that may have already happened i mean i'm worried this is probably a hot spot for aliens i mean i walk out that door if there's ever a chance of getting beamed up, it may happen. Texas? No, this studio. No, no.

This studio? If the aliens are watching anyone, Joe, I think it's you. They're like, he's getting close. He's bringing people close. He's telling people about us. Well, I have basically been having top level UFO discussions on this podcast once a month. That's my plan. Oh, is it?

Yeah, my plan is to have as many high-level people that really understand what's going on with UFOs. No bullshit artists. I've had bullshit artists on before. But in the beginning of the podcast, I didn't really think that there was legitimate UFO discussions to be had. I thought that was all bullshit. It was just fun. But as time has gone on and now the new york times publishes things the

pentagon comes out and talks about things and they they've released these videos and there's are you gonna have a pilot on did you already have the pilot yeah i've had david fravor on okay david fravor who was the guy who saw the tic tac i watched the footage of it yeah his podcast with me was great but i I always recommend his podcast with my friend Lex Friedman which I think is incredible. It's a long term discussion of not just why

it is impossible that that thing was anything other than a craft of super superior intelligence. That it was impossible for that thing to be a mirage it actively blocked radar they tried to track it it went from somewhere above 60 i think it was they they tracked it initially at 80 000 feet above sea level and it got down to one feet above sea level

in less than a second so in the blip of a radar it went from 60 000 feet to one there's so many things that are attributed to this this craft that can't be explained so let me ask you this does this make you nervous in some way does it make you feel as though we are vulnerable to a level that we'd never considered before because if there's this level of technology it's got to be weapons out there there's got to be some bad players i mean what the hell is going on that there's this things necessarily the case is that attributed only to humans is that this is a we fucking do that's the first thing we would do is probably attack a fucking alien not necessarily

we don't attack chimps you know I don't I don't think it's necessarily something that we would do in terms of or they would do rather in terms of like using weapons on us I think it I think it would be too easy I don't think they're interested in that I think they're probably interested in making sure that we don't fuck up the planet it's so crazy this conversation they're probably interested in us figuring our way through this adolescence of our evolution because that's what i think we're in i think we're we were in this period where we were lower primates and then we warring, and now we've gotten to this position where we're communicating with each other in this unprecedented manner. Where we're using, whether it's social media or the internet or all these various apps, we're exchanging information.

And some people are manipulating that, and some people are distorting the truth, and some people are trying to push their own agenda. But I think ultimately this is like a period of time that we're going to pass through until we get to an era of pure information where deception is not possible. That means language has got to go. There's got to be a deeper understanding because we lose so much in language and translation. Yes, you're right. You're right. And I think that's going to happen. And Elon Musk is actually working towards that with Neuralink.

And I don't think that's something that a lot of people want to accept. Because, look, language can be beautiful. Like someone saying something to you, like an email or a letter that someone writes you that touches you deeply or something someone says to you, looking you in the eye and holding your hand and tells you how much you care about them and you know they've put thought and time

into formulating their words in a way that's going to deeply impact you all that is like very meaningful for people prose is meaningful literature is meaningful you read a great book and cursive writing is gone that's crazy but it was still an art i mean there was some people that that that was their craft it really was i yeah well so is calligraphy want to bring that back here's the thing scribbling your name on one of those iPads when you buy something. I just did one. I just did it for you.

And I looked at it and said, fuck, that's a nice signature. It's so silly. You're using your finger and making your mark. It's kind of funny. It is kind of funny that we still have signatures. But again, I think these things are a part of the adolescent stage of our evolution, our moving away from our primitive ways. I mean, think about the things that are at the forefront right now. We're arguing about things that are very important for some people. And we shouldn't have real issues in regards to the way people look or race or where people are from.

All these things, I think we're just having these battles that we're sorting out. And I have real confidence in human beings. I'm an optimist, ultimately. And I think that we're going to sort through all these things. Whether or not we do it in my lifetime is up for debate. And we'll see. I think we can. I think we do it a lot more rapidly than people think oh we're definitely speeding up evolution very quickly i mean you can see it that uh i mean you just see it every which

way in every which but our biology is hampering the process see technology is moving so much faster than our our wetware it's moving so much faster than our tissue. We're stuck in these bodies that are virtually the same bodies that existed 10,000 years ago. Other than a few variations and changes. There's not much difference between you and a 10,000 year old person.

If you got a guy from 10,000 years ago and you dressed him up right and sat him down in a movie theater, if you could go to a movie theater, that motherfucker would be indistinguishable. You'd walk right past him with your popcorn. You'd sit right down. You wouldn't really know. And we are real similar to that person.

But that person lived in a time where no one knew jack shit. I mean, it was a confusing world. And there was constant war. And people were coming over. And they were warring with fucking bows and arrows and swords and spears and beating people in the heads and killing them with rocks. And rape was commonplace. And infanticide was commonplace. It was all normal.

We have the same tissue as those people. But yet we have these supercomputers in our pocket that can transport video from the other side of the planet. You could have a FaceTime video with someone. You could have a Zoom call with someone from the UK and have perfect video and audio. You could be on a beach somewhere with the waves crashing behind you. And you can try to convince people

that you're in front of a fireplace with candy canes. What an asshole. The fact that he thought he could do that is so funny. Oh, it's so brilliant, dude. I love it. It's so callous, too. It's like, just sit there and fucking tell people, don't do this, don't do this, and then do it yourself.

I mean, that... There's a lesson in that, and the lesson is honesty. Honesty is, like, really, really, really, really fucking important, because you don't have to do it. You know? You don't have to be honest. So when someone is honest, it resonates with people very deeply. It's something that I try to be more than almost any...

I try to be nice. That's number one. I always try to be nice. And sometimes I'm not. i try to be more than almost any i try to be nice that's number one i always try to be nice and sometimes i'm not i try to be nice sometimes you know you catch people in weird moods people we exist in these wave patterns we're not like a flat plane we're like the ocean we have waves and sometimes we're flat and sometimes it's beautiful sometimes it's chaos but i think your intent should always kind of like like who who do you think you are who do you want to be i want to be a nice person i want to be a person that people like to see and they want to hug when they see and i want to hug you when i see you that those these are my intentions to be an honest person that is a deep intention with me

to recognize my own failings to to recognize my my shortcomings my failures all those things are important humility when and so much to it but there's also it's like we all know we all know that we're just human and humans are just imperfect creatures so when someone tries to that's that's one of the problems we have with politicians they're not talking like us they're not talking like a person. They talk like something that's not real. Not relatable. That's a thing.

Exactly. But it's this thing. They settle into this fucking top 40 radio DJ voice. And they put on this act. They're not the humans that you think they are. They're the humans when they go home and they do their thing. But those are within walls that you don't see. Because that is all we know,

listen, this is one of the big reasons why Trump was so successful. Because he presented, he had a presentation that was different than what we were accustomed to. We were accustomed to standard political discussion, standard political talk,

and he presented something differently we're we're accustomed to this certain level of bullshit and when something comes along and doesn't have that level of bullshit we're like oh look at that and more people than not recognizes real problems in his presentation there's real problems in what it represents there's real problems in what it represents. There's real problems with what it reinforces and who gets excited about it. And when you're trying to win, like he was, you tap into fear. You tap into the bad aspects

of people's hopes and desires. But I think ultimately what resonates with people is authenticity. And there's not a lot of that out there, as weird as it seems because for the longest time as humans it didn't benefit you to be authentic it benefited you to be a bullshit artist can i say that in many ways that people say like how the fuck can it be that me some small town like let's just call it what it is like i shouldn't be here how the fuck do you

know and are friends with the likes of joe rogan I say, I think the thing that Joe appreciates of me is that I'm not any of those things that you just said. I am just that fucking guy. And I think that the gift of our friendship is such that you get to look at me and be like, I don't have to be friends with people that are something. I like this fucking guy. I like what he brings to the fucking table. something i like this fucking guy i like what he brings the fucking table well i don't think that much about like what a person is in um you know i i think about i don't mean my level of judgment of any i just think that that what what i think you get from me is that level of

of humanity from a level that, you know, my life is different than most people you have here. It just is, right? The people that you typically have here are like, they have long reach and they have these. Not necessarily. I don't really have a typical person I have here, which is one of the reasons why this show has been successful.

Well, I mean, I see the celebrities and shit. I mean, I'm sitting in a seat that Maynard and Kanye was sitting in. I'm like, holy fuck, man, that's crazy. I's crazy i'm trying to absorb a fart here this is crazy but they're not all you know i mean i have uh different people on all the time i think um i the the beauty of not having a boss not having a person who tells me who's going to be on is that i can have whoever i want to be on so i literally can have on as long as they're willing people that I want to talk to. Can I say that?

I think that that's the thing that people really appreciate about you the most is that you're going about life the way you fucking want it and you get it done the way you fucking choose. And there is nothing greater in life than grabbing it by the fucking balls and going for those reaches that you didn't imagine possible. And that's the thing that I want to talk to people about when something was a dream first, because this was a dream first. Because this was a dream first.

And here I am. But for me, this was never a dream. This is what's the most fucked up thing about it. I never had a dream that I was going to be a podcast host. Maybe not in a podcast, but at some point you had a dream when you were... I just wanted to be a professional comic. Seriously. Everything else just happened along the way.

I guess the same could be said about me just wanting to speak out against Marineland. I mean, I would have never imagined that I'd be, A, sitting here having this conversation with you, smoking weed on Mike Tyson's podcast. I mean, working in the legislature with people. Oh, my God. What do you mean? Isn't it? I know, but being in the room with him, isn't it surreal?

Try to be me in the room with him. And you say sitting next to Tyson is sort of like sitting next to a tiger. No, that was what Kevin – would Kevin Hart say that? No. No. Kevin Lee. Kevin Lee said that. Kevin Lee said it's literally like sitting next to a tiger.

You're like, oh, shit. And Kevin Hart said he was like a pit bull with no leash. He was a hero of mine when i was a kid i have a framed poster in a framed uh cover of sports illustrated in my office that sports illustrated recently was so nice to send me this one from kid dynamite yeah kid dynamite when he was 19 years old love it man i remember seeing that cover i can remember to this day because i was a little younger than him i was like 18 at the time and i was like wow like imagine being that guy like the guy that everybody says is the fucking man the upcoming heavyweight that everybody wants to watch 18 19 years old can you imagine the weight of the world you know the thing i like about mike tyson both

beyond his humility at this point is that you know mike tyson is is Mike Tyson. When we look at him, we see Mike Tyson, but that's not how he sees himself. He sees himself as Alexander the fucking great. He sees himself as this great warrior. He was asked in his last fight, you know, what would become, what would, what would be, what would become if you had lost? And he said, losing was never at any point

in my fucking mind, man. That's an inspiration. I think about that too. People look at me, they say, they see Phil Demers, but I don't see Phil Demers. Who the fuck's Phil Demers? I don't see, I see in a mirror if you will, but in my head, now I'm looking to do, I don't want to, I don't want to attribute some of the things that I feel

like, but yeah, in the strangest way, I feel like, uh, in order for me to, to dig, to get that level of energy and when I have to convince myself or believe that I am something other than Phil Demers, you know, it's kind of a weird. In the same way that Mike Tyson has to look at and believe himself to be something greater. So what do you think of yourself as like a champion for good or something like that? How do you think of it? Well, there's a Neil Young song.

It's called Cortez the Killer. And they say he comes dancing across the water. What a killer. I like to think that I'm Cortez the Killer. But no. I don't know. I just, you know, in the same, in speaking of where it is that you asked

that I come get my energy from, I guess it's, and it, in the same, in speaking of where it is that you asked that I come get my energy from, I guess it's, and it's the thing that causes a lot of fill fatigue for some, because I see this as something that is almost a sickness. I love how you use fill fatigue as this like condition. Well, it's real. It's just real. I get it. I'm an asshole.

I mean, I admit it in the podcast. Talk about it like it's herpes. Don't catch it, dude. Don't catch it. No antibiotics takes care of it. Maybe a little pot. But it's so funny how you have it as this disease that you can have. I mean, I have it.

Like arthritis. Some people have arthritis. Some people have fill fatigue. Yeah, the filmmaker does currently. Sorry, Nat. I get it. Does she? It's no picnic.

Well, you have to be obsessed to be willing to go through the battle that you've gone through for so long. And that's how you get shit done. That's unfortunate. Like, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine recently about Michael Jordan's press conference when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. And he's mad at all the sportscasters who said stupid shit about him, all the writers who were wrong. sportscasters who said stupid shit about him, all the writers who were wrong. Like this guy's literally the greatest basketball player of all time in human history.

And he's getting recognized for that. And he's still like, man, fuck you and fuck you. I can't help myself either, dude. I get it. That's what it is,

man. You, I, I think there's this mindset of achievement and your mindset of achievement is based on fucking over marine land and closing down what you think is this unjust insanely cruel institution and getting back your walrus and this this fucking mindset that's required to achieve something that most people i mean you talk about feel fatigue just what about life fatigue man life battle fatigue people

get that in order to to be able to be a person like you to put this battle up for so long i mean i've known you for eight fucking years and you've been doing it longer than that that's a long ass time there's an argument that i've been fighting for and again i was deemed a problem employee before i left i've been doing this for a decade now. That's fucking crazy, man. I can't even believe it. And you know, the first time we met, I was probably 60 pounds heavier. I was, uh, you know, and you, you attribute that to stress.

Like you're not like, no, I mean, yeah, yeah. So it's odd. I attribute it to my mindset and I don't know that it's right or wrong, but again, I've been on my back for three months, you know, by all means I should have gained some weight. It's as if I'd gained muscle somehow. So explain that to me. I don't know that I can, but, uh, I think that my level of anxiety and, and because I've been in, in fight of the fight or flight and flight, imagine that's for so long that just the enduring high energy stress has reduced my body and just left me super lean. And, uh, you know, I almost feel as though my mind is trying to turn me into a fighter. Like it sounds crazy, but it's all I'm doing is fighting. I'm not. Well, your body probably doesn't understand why you're not

fighting. Your body's probably like this dude is so stressed out. He's going to go to war any second now. And I haven't punched anything yet. I get it. You know what I'm saying? Because in, in biological terms, my veins are starting to pop out now. Like I, it punched anything yet. I get it. You know what I'm saying? Because in biological terms. Look, my veins are starting to pop out now. It takes me nothing. I get goosebumps. I start to ramp up. I get sweaty.

It's crazy. I do have a level of psyching myself up that is different than most. I was on a reality TV show called Wipeout Canada. It was similar to Wipeout, which is the one where you jump across the red balls and whatnot. Yeah, the people that produced Fear Factor.

That's right. Matt Kunitz. Shout out to Matt. And Endemol. The people that produced Fear Factor. That's right. Matt Kunitz. Shout out to Matt. And Endemol. I think it was Endemol. Yeah. So I was on that show and I won. And every person on that show.

You won Wipeout? I won Wipeout, yeah. Dude, congratulations. No, congratulate my lawyer. He got all the money. It was great. I used to. I got.

So there was a time. I just want to back up just real quick. What year was this? It's got to be 2010 or 11. It was right before I quit because I got the check. It was $50,000, which was tax-free in Canada. And I lasted less than a year. Check deposited.

Thank you, Wipeout Canada, 2011. Look at that. Holy fuck. Hey, you can dig deep. That's amazing. I like how you spelled check like a fucking communist. I'm a French dude. I can't get away from it.

But in any event, all the people that had met me during that time, they were just like, you know, you were not on the radar for winning this thing. I mean, I was against some young athletes and all these other things, but I had this fucking mindset, my dude. Like, I was just not going to fucking lose this thing. And I had to win it. And I won. I got my check.

Did someone die on Wipeout recently? I heard. I did won i got my check and then someone died on wipeout recently i heard i did read something like that that's right died a heart attack it's very real dude i i showed up in argentina that's what that was filmed and the first thing i saw was a guy in a cast like this i looked at him and he goes it's real it's very real i'm like holy fuck wait a minute you were in argentina that's where they filmed wipeout canada yeah they rent the wipeout anything at the time you i mean mean, there's some courses in, I believe California, maybe they built something. Yeah, well, they used to do it in California

because they used to do it at the same ranch where we were filming some Fear Factor stuff. So that would have been after? No, no, no, no. This was early while I was doing Fear Factor. Early, oh, okay. They're still doing Wipeout. I feel like, what was the first season

of Wipeout in North America? I believe Matt was doing it, and Endemol was doing it while – because my friend John Henson was the narrator. John Henson, yes, classic name. He's a commenter. Yeah, that's right. He's a comic writer. He was the guy.

He was one of the spokespersons on the show. Yeah, he was the commenter. He's a commentator. The U of the UFC. Yeah, yeah, essentially a color commentator. And John was a stand-up, and John was also the u of the ufc yeah yeah it was essentially a color commentator and uh john was a stand-up and john was also the host of uh soup talk soup okay right on uh on e okay john's been around for a long time and uh he was the guy that was doing it for uh endemol and they were doing something because i remember seeing the course and i want to say it was out in like santa

clarita or some shit like that sable ranch yeah that's where santa clarita that's where we used to film fear factor i think that place got fucked up by the fires yeah did it i'm pretty sure that's why i was like that's why yeah that's wipeout that's the setup that they had because i remember i was going to work i was like oh this. They got Wipeout set up here too. So in Argentina, the way that it was, at least that I learned of it, is that was a place where you could... People could die and you could throw them in the ocean.

You'd forget about it. What year was the first season of Wipeout in the United States? Let's see if we can find that out. I want to say 2005. Eight. Eight. Oh, okay.

So it wasn't while... I must have gone back and seen it because fear factor ended in 2007 but i do remember seeing the set because they went right from fear factor to this right this is the yeah well maybe they were filming when we were filming our last season and they didn't air it until 2008 maybe it's one of those deals because sometimes you know you you film like eight ten episodes and then they air like a couple of months later but in argentina they i just remember there were signs being changed one day it's wipeout canada the next day it's wipeout this country wipeout this seemed as if production companies were renting and then tailoring it to whatever that they chose kind of thing so wipeout canada wasn't was filmed in argentina and it's crazy because uh

it's fucking cold man i ran that uh final the final run at midnight and i was the last guy to run so i just remember that was a long fucking day it was like midnight and i'm in a booth and they're just like okay you're the last guy to go you're gonna run and i'm just like i gotta fucking win this thing i gotta fucking win this what did you have to do is there a video of it jamie oh it's, it's episode one. If you look up White Boat Canada episode one, they took it off YouTube. Oh, okay. Now I know what happened. What happened was I had come back in 2011.

I came back for six episodes of Fear Factor in 2011. That was when it famously got canceled because we made people drink cum. Animal cum or human cum? Animal cum. What are we, fucking savages? I was going to say human cum. No what are we fucking savages i was gonna say human cum no big deal i wouldn't but i get it well it depends on who's cum you know like try to get people to drink a gallon scale a gallon of trump's cum wait it was it a gallon and we talked no it was a large glass though it's too much at least a liter it seems the appropriate

time to end the show maybe. Well, there was one of the rare times where I told the people don't do this because I was not and when I If I'm the voice of reason you got a real fucking problem And maybe then because I imagine you've come a long ways since then and what is shocking and not or what is accepting or not Yeah for sure, but in 2011. Hey, there he is. Look at that. He's a big boy there. Look at you, man. Oh, so I won that.

I won that and then I skipped automatically to the finals, which is great. But look at me, dude. I want to throw up right now. I'm kind of big. I'm on Valium. I'm not sleeping well. I'm drinking too much.

You're on Valium? Why were you on Valium? Yeah, it's just Prescription meds for depression And lack of sleep And everything Really? And then right there A fucking guy spun me

I remember right here I'm looking back at them They're drinking beers At the top of my You fuckers Like I'm in the win 50k You spin me You mother

And then that's it It's go time baby Well why were you on Was this because of the stress From dealing with Marine Land? No so me being able To be on the show I applied

I woke up one morning Hung over a shit And I see a fucking I was watching Seinfeld And then a commercial me being able to be on the show i applied i woke up one morning hung over his shit and i see a fucking i was watching seinfeld and then a commercial comes on it says be on white but i knew i was going to be on i was a walrus mom how fucking tough is it going to be to get on this show they had me on i applied they didn't even they didn't even bother with a um an audition they had me up there and then i was in with why didn't they bother with an audition i went to the audition but they had me as already listed as on so i was i was there to be a member of the press to just talk about the film so i was on just by virtue of applying this is wild it's wild watch is this show done it shows done yeah i mean they still show they should bring this bitch back this is fun right here you wouldn't

know it i fucking hurt my back i couldn't walk for weeks after this oh my god and then right about here i climbed the ladder. I'm listening. I'm in my head. I listened to Maynard going, keep going. And now I'm like, okay, I got to keep fucking going. I got to win this thing. And right here I do what's called the double tramp.

Untouched in all of White Book Canada, he did it. What do you mean? No one does that. Everyone jumps very politely on one trampoline and then does the other one. Here I inadvertently say, show me the money. I want to say, give me the money. That's okay. Show me the money is like from the movie.

I brush off the fucking sweat. I do my back flip. Oh, by the way, I briefly throw up underwater. Unshown. You'll see my look when she, when, when this woman calls me the winner, you'll see the relief in my fucking head because this is beyond just winning who's the guy on the left is your competitor he was a good dude yeah he's a yogi out of bc this dude this dude should have mopped the floor with me man but i just i just

dug deep and that's what everyone said to me they said you never struck us as the athlete where the fuck did that come from but uh less than 20 or maybe maybe an hour before i started doing this odd look at this i'm fucking loving on everyone's obviously canadian i'll tell you another story this is i there was a time when i could never tell this but i'm in the booth with the four other people that are supposed to run the finals you know the winner gets 50,000 i say to the to the three others 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 winner gets 20 let's fucking do it everyone split it up they look at each other you know we weren't allowed i said we don't say anything we wait a year no one forgets we cut each other our fucking checks we all win they said no i'll fuck it i gotta win wow i did offer that's a fact yeah i tried to cut it up yeah i just i

didn't want i mean 50 000 or nothing i'll take 10 they do that in pool tournaments yeah i imagine they do it in poker i imagine they do it just about everywhere. Who wants to suffer a net loss? Yeah, they cut up the money. That's a big thing in pool tournaments. Yeah. It just seemed fair. Anyways, I did win, and I consider that a blessing just as well, because that is what launched my journey. It's what gave me the money to be able to afford lawyers. So when I quit less than a year after that,

and Marine Line started suing me and everyone around me, I started cutting 5,000 checks for everybody. Wow. When did you get on hot boxing with Mike Tyson? I was in LA. It was like the next day after being here, the last time we were here. Oh.

Yeah. Did we talk about it? Did you do it? Yeah, I talked about the fact that I was going to do it. And yeah, we did. And it was fucking, dude, I can't. Okay. The only thing that I do regret is when Mike Tyson

says the word walrus, it doesn't sound like that. So there was some confusion as to me saying, what, what war? He's like, war, and I'm like, what war? War? I'm like, oh, walrus. I'm like, oh, dude. Joe, this is the time of the podcast where I

point to the walrus dick on your, on your table that I identified, which I'm actually quite proud of because I don't know that I've ever actually physically seen a walrus dick before, but I knew about them. It is a fossilized walrus penis. Frank Von Hippel gave it to us, right? Yeah. A real scientist.

In accordance to the laws that were passed in Canada, I could not ship you that. Really? The law that you helped pass, yeah. Well, good. That would be considered biological. I don't need it. I didn't want it. He gave it to me.

It's here because he's a nice guy. Do people touch it? I've refused. I've touched it. Yeah? Yeah. Steve Rinella recognized it immediately. He's the only other person besides you that recognized it immediately, but he didn't recognize

it as a walrus dick. But he knew it as a dick. He knew it as a dick. What is the term for that? A baculum. A baculum. Yeah, he knew it was a baculum. Yeah, I've seen them from smaller animals.

I'll tell you a story. I've told you before, I will reiterate here, but that dick poses a big problem to walruses, both in the wild and captivity, because when they climb over things, the weight that they're bearing as they climb over, that dick gets caught and that dick gets ripped off and ripped out and those male walruses bleed out to death.

A lot of them, huh? Yeah, it's an actual problem. It's like a cause of death. I don't want to call it common, but it happens. It happens. It's awful. It's really awful. And it happens in captivity.

It has happened in captivity. I can imagine. Can you sew it back on? Sounds like my guess is that's not ever been successfully done. My guess. I've not heard about that yet. It's probably a safe guess. Yeah, it's a weird thing to have, right?

I'm glad human beings don't have bones for dicks, because we'd be fucking more than we are. Why do we call them boners and not blooders? John Bobbitt got his back instead of the guy from Wu-Tang, remember? Say that again? John Bobbitt got his son back on, right? John Bobbitt. Bobbitt, yeah.

Yeah, he's got the top of his name. Oh, he got his dick. That guy from Wu-Tang we talked about. Oh, that's right. He got his son back on as well. Yeah, that's pretty sure. Yeah, yeah. The RZA talked about that, right? Yeah, it talked about the guy went crazy what why did he go crazy

again something happened i think humans call boners boners because they sound less gross than bludders i get it well because it seems like a bone like it gets hard like a bone with when you're the appropriate person you imagine hey you got a bludder yeah well but it's no bone but it does seem like a bone and it gets really hard but we're lucky we don't have an actual bone because there would be even more of us i mean we're already like rats on a sinking ship there's eight billion people imagine how many billions there would be if we had bones for dicks it's evident that our overpopulation is becoming a problem and you know i don't know i mean i can't know the answer of course but what the fuck becomes of this world if we just keep going down the road of overpopulating it's weird i had matthew iglesias

on the podcast who was a founder of vox and uh i don't think he made a particularly compelling argument for it but he wrote a book about a billion Americans. And his idea is that in order for America to stay successful and competitive and for us to get over our problems, we actually need more people. The same will be said about Canada. I mean, just by virtue of employment and everything, we need immigration. We're a small place. It's kind of a crazy thing to think about, but the economy needs more people. But should we be basing everything we need on the fucking economy?

But that seems to be the argument. Yeah, but the Canada argument is different because because first of all canada only has 20 million people there's less people in california than there is in canada there's less people in los angeles most likely if you counted all the illegals than there is in canada canada is a different animal but canada leads the world in of all, they legalize marijuana nationwide. Thank you. Salute to Canada. My other fight.

As much as I pick on Justin Trudeau of being too handsome to run a country, I salute the fact that they pulled that off. And then the fact that they've also banned dolphin, orca, and porpoise captivity. They're ahead of us morally in that way i think and and also righteously like the idea that you could put someone in a fucking cage and there's people in the cages right now in america that were locked up for non-violent drug offenses it's yeah like that is a type of slavery i really do believe it is i i think there's a real argument that what we're doing right now with the amount of people that are in prison in this country is fucking insane.

They're making money. Not the prisoners, but there's a whole complex that is making money off that. We're using human beings like batteries. They're like batteries to generate income. They're batteries to generate currency And the fight that those individuals have to try to endure To even get that freedom Is I can't imagine the exasperation of being somewhere I mean it's similar to captivity

You think about it, you're in a place you just shouldn't be It's just not justified for crime Look I do think we have to protect society From murderers and rapists From people that want to kill people and rape people And victimize people, I think there's a difference there But there's no real indication that there's any actual effort that's put into rehabilitating people or how you could rehabilitate people.

But incarcerating someone for smoking or... No, it's fucking nonsense. It's too much. There's a lot of shit. You know, there's also a good argument for people like Bernie Madoff. Maybe that motherfucker should be in jail. People that have ruined people's lives and taken away all people's savings.

I mean, maybe protecting society from someone like that and incarcerating someone like that is, oh, that would be so nice. You're not a basketball player. It's okay. Dude, I'm terrible. You should have kicked that thing. I play horse with my kids.

My daughter's 10. She beat me at horse. I'm fucking awful at basketball. Can I ask you a question about the documentary and whether or not it would be children appropriate? What are your thoughts on that? I know your kids, they like the dolphins. Sure.

Yeah, I would show my kids that. I was curious about that because I almost had a mind to say, maybe your kid could watch or your kid's got. I don't know. I didn't want to. I just don't know. Yeah, no, 100%. They should see it.

People should see it. Children should see it. They should see it. Children should see it. They should know how awful it is. You know, like I said, my kids like the zoo. They liked it when they were little babies. They liked the zoo because, you know, you would see an animal that, you know, they couldn't believe. Like kids see a photo of an animal and they have this idea of what an animal is. But then all of a sudden a rhino is in front of you.

You know, see a little two-year-old that's in your arms and they're freaking out. It's fun. But I did feel guilty supporting those things. But there's also a thing that they do in some ways protect populations of these animals from extinction. Because there are animals that are in captivity that are extremely endangered in the wild. Well, and that's the weird thing about Texas, too. We'll get back to freedom, right? There's an animal called an oryx.

In the wild, oryxes are virtually extinct. In Texas, you can hunt them. You can hunt them. You can go have an oryx steak. You and I could go. We can go to, like, the wild ranch. We can go whack an oryx grill that motherfucker up it would be delicious and there's no ethical quandary about that like there's a

more than sustainable population in fact that population has to be managed so unless you want to bring in wolves like you you really have to do something to control the populations because they're going to breed it makes a strange argument when it is hunters that are promoting the very environments that the animals thrive in. They're the ones at the forefront of protecting the environments where these animals thrive. It's a real argument I do wish that the vegans would consider when you're just like, but these people's money and their work go towards this. It's like they're doing more for you

for the animals than you trying to abolish things like i get it i mean that doesn't it's not attributed to a place like fucking marine land but there are places doing things that you know an argument can be made that uh the benefits outweigh uh you know the the the cruelty if you will if there's when that's when that's obviously in the well africa is the weirdest example that in the most human example and by human i example of that and the most human example. And by human, I mean like there's human problems and I've talked about these many times that are particularly human

in that they're so complicated and messy. And one of them is wildlife in Africa because wildlife in Africa, there's at least pre-COVID and pre-Cecil the lion once they that guy shot cecil the lion it became this worldwide he did it again by the way he went back hunting what he shot another lion i don't know that he shot a lion but he did go back hunting he was busted hunting and it didn't get quite the way they busted it's legal no i know but you know what

i mean like the people they you would think that given the fallout of of how this went you'd think that they would the dude would be deterredred, at least enough to keep it from getting leaked out to the public, but undeterred. Well, they had to assassinate, I mean, I'm using that term, it's not the right term, but they had to euthanize a bunch of lions because they were destroying the ungulate population because no one was going over there to hunt the lions anymore. It's weird, man. It's not clean. It's not clean. It's messy. You know, it's weird man it's not it's not clean it's not clean it's messy you know it's like abortion like abortion's a messy discussion it's a human discussion like i think a woman should have the right to choose i'm a pro-choice person i'm a left-wing pro-choice person it's

your body right i mean i i especially in in rape cases or in cases of a young girl who makes a mistake or even a woman who just doesn't want to have that child. But the thing about abortion where it gets messy is the term, the term, like when you get into a viable, sustainable fetus, like what, what do you do then?

Like when it's six months old, when it's seven months old, you know, when does consciousness start? Well, what is, when is, when does it become a murder? When, when does it stop being a cluster of cells and start being a human being

it's a very human problem the difficulty i think is when we when humans go to manage things that are just not ourselves it's one thing to govern yourself but when you try to govern others govern other species govern the environment govern things that we don't necessarily have the understanding of especially when we have a bias that we want to make it work for us instead of in symbiosis of sorts, then yeah, it just becomes immediately conflicting. I get it. I get it. And, and it's irrational in ways to think that we can manage everything. And, and, and as long as the, I mean, we always have to keep an open discussion. That's number one, but as long as that discussion can remain logical, honest, and, uh, It's hard because you want to win.

And there are biases, right? If you have this idea that you want to maintain hunting, for example, lions, you will frame your argument in a way that ignores the cruelty of what you're doing, the fact that you don't eat the lions. And you'll put it in this thing, the grossness of someone standing there holding a lion's head like, man, lions are the fucking apex predators. It's supposed to be eating you, bitch. You would never hold onto that lion if it wasn't for that fucking

rifle. My God, I get it. I hate it too. But if it wasn't for that rifle, human beings, or well, not necessarily rifles, but any kind of weapon, human beings probably wouldn't be around. No, I get it, but that is the sort of dominion that we operate with. It is all dominion. It just doesn't seem like we can operate in pure symbiosis with things. We have to

have a level of dominion. We have to have a level of judgment of, of bias of everything. It's like without it, it's almost as if it identifies humans, right? We, we attribute ourselves as I can say, like someone may say, I am a hunter. And then by virtue of being a hunter, you put yourself in a box and then you're only allowed to think so much. becomes difficult to to maintain a uh a earnest genuine uh speaker and an absorber of all information without bias i i get it and especially when you start having more than two people in a room three and four people and stuff it just becomes conflicting humans i don't know that we were meant to govern the earth i don't think we are i mean look at the job we're doing we're not doing so great the planet is sneezing us off in a bunch of places right now.

Well, the best example of humans, maybe the best example of humans would be the best thing to govern the earth because you don't want chimps governing the earth. Those motherfuckers would be running around ripping dicks and biting fingers off. But not politicians. You don't want lions to govern the earth

because they'd be running around killing other lions' babies because that's what they do. It's complicated, man. But there's a natural balance. We throw everything out of balance when we try too hard to govern. But we're the natural balance too. We're the weird things with opposable thumbs that have figured out guns and nuclear weapons.

There's balance in that because we're the easiest to kill. I mean, human beings, you can get killed by a small dog. Like a small dog. If you're in the room- I'm a mailman, dude. Don't say that. If you're in the room with a 50-pound pit bull, the odds of you being able to kill that thing are almost zero. Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen a cat actually become so aggressive that what happens is it's called in a lot of times if you you have a a pet cat they have what's called uh displaced aggression

where they go fucking crazy i've watched cats i've seen i've seen the aftermath of a cat attacking someone it was so relentless it was such a bloodbath such a beating she when she finally got that cat locked up in the bathroom she had been cut so fucking bad up in like to the point where she had, she'd been bleeding a lot. She's scratched. This cat had climbed her and there was no getting it off. And I had a cat who,

uh, one time was, was spooked at the window. I don't know what the fuck happened. Something happened and he went crazy and he was, he was attacking me. He was attacking mother cat and nothing I could do. I had to punt them into the fucking room and shut the door.

Like, dude, I know I didn't punt him. This don't fuck it. I'm just saying I had to, I had to, I had to not be the caring hug. I had to get the fuck in fucking room and shut the door. Like, dude. No, I didn't punt him. Don't fuck it. I'm just saying I had to not be the caring, hugging. I had to get the fuck in here, calm your ass down. When he got out of that, he was back to being a normal cat. But in that moment, he was viciously dangerous, man.

And I'm at almost 200 pounds. I was scared shitless of a what? Six pound fucking animal? Seven, 10 pound animal? Holy shit, man. They're wild animals. I mean, they're not wild, but they're animals. You ever see the video of that cat that climbs that guy's leg and bites him?

Dude, and you hear his screech? I'd rather get bitten by an orca. I hate to say it. That's crazy. No, no, no. No, you wouldn't. We're just soft. I had a feral cat for a while.

Yeah, I had a cat that my friend Lainey, she and her boyfriend had rescued a bunch of kittens that were underneath this house. This cat was little, man. It was probably two months old when I got it. And it was ferocious, like hissing and sputtering. I locked myself in a bedroom for several days just trying to get this cat to accept me. That must have been some experiment. Well, I was single. I was 26-ish, somewhere around that.

Everyone wants a cat at home to bring the ladies to. No, it wasn't even that, man. I had cats already. I like animals, man. I've always had a thing for animals. And this cat, I didn't know what I was taking on. I'd never had a feral animal before. But I had to get this thing to like me.

And so this is what was crazy about it. It was so feral. I mean, it was wild. So if I was petting it, it would be purring. And I mean purring like no kitten purrs. Like so happy. But then I would put it down. And it would climb the walls and fucking just go nuts.

And then I realized that what I had to do was get this thing. And it never accepted anybody but me. Its whole life. For the rest of its life. That's so strange. At a two-month-old, you think that that's something that could... I mean, she was set in her ways. No, no, no.

It was he. He's been established. His name was Jack Dempsey. That's what I named him. He was a fucking hobo. He was a wild cat. him he was he was a fucking hobo he's a wild cat but he was my buddy like he he and I had an understanding but even he would hiss at me sometimes but I could still pick him up I was the only one that could pick him up I could pick him up and he would start

purring because he knew I would never I was I'd never been cruel to him I'd always protected him but it was uh a weird thing so I just brought a bunch of books. And I had a mattress and a spare bedroom in this house that I was renting. I was renting a house when I was probably 28 at the time. Yeah, you went for it. That's crazy. That's a hell of a commitment. I sat in that room for several days. But I didn't have a fucking life, man.

I didn't have any friends. It must have been quite zen even. I mean, this is like, it sounds crazy. But that might be a hell of an endeavor. I know it sounds like nothing. But lock yourself in a room with a feral animal. You got a hell of an endeavor i know it sounds like nothing but lock yourself in a room with a feral animal you got a lot of work ahead of you there's gonna be a level of zen that you are like the smallest progress is going to be the hugest thing i mean especially

for the witness right especially if you're the one doing it it was the perfect time for me to do something like that because i didn't have a family i didn't have a life necessarily i was uh doing some acting and doing some stand-up so you know and this was during the off time like I were down for the for the season so I had like months of time off so basically I just had to go to the Comedy Store at night that's all I had to do and so I was hanging out with this fucking cat many days in a row just me and this cat in a room I put the litter box in the room I put the food in the room i put the food in the room

i put the water in the room and i put a stack of books on a mattress and i just hung out with this fucking cat can i ask that the hissing go away yeah yeah yeah eventually but he would hiss at me sometimes for no reason he just looked at me but it wasn't a hiss like hey fuck you it was just like i'm crazy yeah it's just like he was He was raised crazy. Feral animals are so different, man. We have this idea of animals. People say, I love animals. But what they love is domesticated animals that love you back. I have the most domesticated dog you can get.

I have a golden retriever. I love your dog. He's the sweetest. I love Marshall. I should have brought him in here. Oh, dude, I would have thrown it out there. I love that dog. He just goes. he will go, if he was in this room,

he would go from you to me to Jamie, to you to me to Jamie. He's like, I love you. He's a happy maker. I've never seen this one. He smiles. Dude, I wish I was that dog at this point. I mean, you look at that dog's life, you're like, yes, you're in the right hands.

He's a super, super chill, happy dog. And I've never had a golden before. They're the sweetest dogs. If I get a dog, it's a golden before they're the sweetest dogs if i get a dog it's a golden they're the nicest dogs man they're so sweet they're just there's no uh there's no like but even if that dog if it was a feral golden retriever it would probably be scary you know that but my point is that is not an animal that's a domesticated love machine. What that is is a wolf that is the ancestor of these bitch-ass wolves that capitulated and came close to the fire and dropped their ears. It became something that gave it, like we gave it food,

and it gave us security. I mean, it's literally what humans are asking of the government. You know, I'm just going to take this back to Marine land real quick, but years ago, John Holder, the owner of Marine land shot two golden retrievers. And we discussed this last time. Yeah. His neighbor had two dogs and, uh, across from John's house was a, uh, you know, there's a gated field and in there they bred deer. They would otherwise take the deer out and put them into the park where people would go and pet them. But, you know, oddly, the most aesthetically pleasing and the healthiest deer were these breeders,

or these ones that were breeding off-site. Well, one day the gate was open and these two Labradors run in. And they're not doing anything. They're not actually harming the animals. What they're doing is running up and down the fence and whatnot. But the then land animal supervisor called John Holer and said, Hey, the neighbor's dogs are back again.

It wasn't the first time. And he said, do you want me to call the OSPCA? And he said, no, I'll take care of this. And I was just walking into work at the time. I heard two gunshots go off. And then the vet got a call. And I was in the room for the call. And John shot the two dogs, took the collars

off and instructed the supervisor to bury him. Jesus Christ. Just to offer a perspective of what. Who owned the dogs? took the the collars off and instructed the uh the supervisor to bury him jesus christ just to offer a perspective of what the dogs it was a neighbor who was threatened to be sued so she didn't really want to talk too much she did ask that the remains be brought back to her she's like i'd like the remains i'd like this to be done but i think that she was really scared as you can imagine everyone's scared bro i would have gone straight punisher dude welcome to my fucking life like you you say to me phil you've been in fight or flight for a lot of years and you've just not been able to unleash it. Yeah, I have a lot of things

I'd like to unleash. I can't. I have to sit on my hands and I have to abide by a system that is such that it is not in my benefit. What kind of a man would shoot a golden retriever that was just scaring deer? You know, what you need to do is figure out a way to get that lady to not make her dog scare the deer, but a

golden's not going to hurt a deer. I won't go over the details of how it went down and whatnot because no one wants to hear it but it's uh it's more it's graphically awful listen there's one of the things that you brought up in the documentary that i didn't know before is where that man was raised and um he was raised in a different country slovenia and he was also raised to, uh, and, and grew up training animals for the circus. So there's a completely different mindset of what an animal is. When I think about John Holder, the man who every argument can be made is, was trying to destroy my life. You know, in the, in the documentary, you know, I cry when he dies. And a lot of people take that as what the fuck, how do you explain that? This man is abusing your life and you're, you're crying.

And I was hurt by it. I experienced loss when he was gone. I had a deal of odd respect for the man because of where he was from and what he had done. I related to him. He was of a different mindset than me. He was of a different mindset than anyone I'd ever come across. I get it. His world was very different. So I attribute a lot of things to him. I had emotion for this man. It

wasn't just, uh, it wasn't a mere enemy that I, that I just saw and wanted to, no, no, this, and the documentary shows it, it's far more powerful than even my being separate from Marine land for as long as I have. You got to remember in the 12 years I was there, I made all my most powerful relationships with the people that even today i'm still friends with all these things the loss of all of that the sort of uh is is uh it's more than just it you know the weight that i carry is more than just just the war which is seems black and white good and bad this guy's being an asshole this guy guy's fighting. It's, it's, it's more conflicting than that for me. There's emotional, uh, attributions to my being separated from there. That is just, you know, difficult for people. Like, again, like you said, I was a kid

then when I left, I was, I was also at 34 years old when I quit. I was of a child like mindset. I don't, when I, you were 22 when you started working, 22 when I started a 34, when I quit and, uh, which by all means should be like the age that someone's considered a man no i was a child i was still not even really your frontal lobes not even fully formed to 25 you're still growing i think mine's still moving i think i think i had some arrested development in my life i think i i'm one of those guys who wanted to be a child almost forever i mean not not consciously but just one of those deals where fun took the forefront of everything. Well, I think there's also a concept of a person being finished, like a finished product.

You're a grown man. You should know better. Right. I don't think that's real. And it's not relative to everybody. It's not just something that could be said. Like, at 22, you should be doing this. It's like, not everybody.

Everybody's different at 22. Yeah, for sure. Well, here's where it gets even weirder. If you ever do have children, when you have kids, then your perception of what a person is changes radically because you realize, like, I see a guy like, how do you say his last name, Stoller? Holler.

Holler, John Holler. I see that guy, I go, that guy used to be a baby. He used to be someone's son, a little baby. And we don't think about that. We think of things as being static. We think of a person being who they are always. I look at a guy with a distended belly and high blood pressure screaming and yelling at protesters. And I go, my God, that's a baby that just became this because of influence, because of nature and nurture, because of all the different experiences that he's absorbed in his life now

he's this this monster can i tell you that what you just said about him being of an infant like mind just hit me like a fucking ton of bricks like as if yes precisely there's something about maybe that man and where he came from that you know kept him from seeing things of a certain way and he'd been defensive in all time. Right. Okay. Hardship. He told me the stories of how he came to Canada.

He escaped war. His family took in a, if I'm not mistaken, a German, this is what he told me. They snuck a German soldier who'd been wounded on their land and snuck them across a border as, and he escaped the country with little to nothing. When I hear his story and he and I have sat over beers when we were going to buy dolphins, but we stopped as they were being delivered to us

and we stopped at a bar. Did you ever ask him, like, does it bother you? There was nothing you could ask him. Why is that? John was such that everything that he ever said, there was a different, something else going going on you should have gave him some mushrooms I wish I could have given him some mushrooms mushrooms will be legal soon I imagine

you imagine? the humility I'll do anything I tried I gave him Guinness I thought it would be enough he had one and he doesn't drink he had one I'm like another one? no well alcohol doesn't necessarily always work because it removes inhibitions. And when someone's completely set in their ways, they might just...

Some people are... I'm a happy drunk. When I get drunk, I'm generally... I get a little crazy, but I'm happy. Some people, they just get angry and mean. John didn't like not being in control. You can't... And what's odd is I, my father's the same way.

I've never seen my dad drunk ever. He'll drink a little bit, but just doesn't. Now I went 20 years of drinking. I attribute a lot of my weight loss to the fact that I just sort of got away from booze as being my, you know, for instance, my, my first vice. I did go over to smoking a shit ton of pot, which is, you know, depicted in the, in the,

in the documentary. But, you know, I work with my medicine. And I microdose, admittedly. I take mushrooms when I can. You know, I smoke the weed, but I work with it. You know, a guy like John Holder is just not going to be the case. Just going back to the subject of pot and it being passed in the legislation, that law got tabled on the same day, or that law passed on the same day that our law got tabled. I was in Ottawa when they introduced the law for, or rather passed the law for marijuana.

And I was there with a lawyer who was helping me work with Bill S-203. And I had brought some weed to Ottawa. It wasn't legal yet. Like it, the law didn't get Royal Ascension, but it had passed. And, uh, you know, I was talking to the lawyer and I'm like, and I didn't want to, I didn't know if I wanted to let them know that I was a

big, you know, big old pot smoker. And so I was leaving Ottawa after it was all said and done. And we hadn't had any real conversations, but I stashed my last joint somewhere, right? Cause I was going into the parliament. I didn't want to bring my weed and I stashed it when i was leaving i said to him i said you know the only other thing i'd be fighting for here is fucking pot and he starts laughing he goes

yeah i didn't know if i could mention it to you i'm like he's he's like i was gonna invite you to my house you know but i got roaches everywhere i'm like oh dude and so i give him the roadmap to where i stashed that joint and a few hours later he's just like dude the fucking eagle the eagle has landed i found it you know i do have the benefit now that marijuana is uh is legal in canada and people recognize it as my meds you know i i go live on instagram a lot uh almost almost with the purpose of practicing the craft of speaking and interacting with people you know and that's technology so you push a button you can connect to people so i do that and uh and i i'd smoke weed and you know i you know, and people smoke with it.

Almost like, almost like, shit, I can't believe I don't even know his fucking name. Who's your big time bud that is smoking? He's always doing, smoking weed on the, I can't believe I don't remember. Joey Diaz? Joey Diaz. Yeah, so I started picking up a little bit of Joey Diaz, doing some sessions and whatnot. And, you know, I give a big old, like uh let's moon the moon on our way to mars take a big old rip and uh now i got people that are now sending me my uh my marijuana for a discounted price i'd like to

take this opportunity to give a shout out to prohibition farms uh enter code name phil at checkout and you get uh 15 off and free delivery yeah dude that? Yeah. Dude, it is the seamless transition for me is just to go from, you know, what it is that gave me a voice to the next thing. And, you know, smoking pot and taking mushrooms. What do you think the next thing is after this is over? Well, in every which way that, you know, my life became a public life that was never my

you know people become musicians comics uh actors and then they become known i am a whistleblower i didn't know what's funny in the documentary is you with the whistle and they're calling you a whistle well yeah i use a whistle to fucking get the dolphins don't even know what that is know that they they it's time to eat come back get your food it's kind of funny because you are a real whistleblower i've been a whistleblower for 20 years until i realized it you were a whistleblower professionally yeah you know i blew that whistle a month ago for the first time in years and that sound almost took me to my fucking knees it was i had brought it as a part of a piece, a memorable piece for this special that I was filming that comes out very soon.

It was, it was about the film and, uh, they'd asked me to bring some, some things I brought, by the way, I'd like to thank you, Joe. I brought a, uh, award that I had received from really Canada's most, uh, uh, reputable, uh, NGO, which is a humane Canada used to be humane societies of Canada. They, they awarded me. Now I was used to be Humane Societies of Canada. They awarded me. Now, I was supposed to go to Vancouver to receive the award, in fact, with Jane Goodall, but COVID came. But they did give me a award, a Leadership and Innovation Award for passing S203. I brought that as well, something I'm very proud of.

Thank you, Joe. Without you, I don't have that. And then I brought my whistle. And then they said, oh, cool whistle. They're like, blow it. And I stood like this, staring down this whistle like, hey, I haven't done this in a while. Was it your whistle? Oh, it was my whistle.

Yeah, it's still caked in fish sauce. It stinks. It's gross. I put my mouth on that fucking piece and I gave it a blow. And man, it almost took me down. I haven't heard that sound in so long. And you can imagine that. And I started to think like only a few times prior to this last whistle would have been a decade ago.

And I would have been blowing it for a dolphin to come back and get your fish. It was just, it's crazy to put myself in the mindset of what time had passed and everything that happened to just to hear that sound again was, it was quite surreal. It was weird. It was weird. Isn't it weird how there's things that you can see or hear, or they just bring you like songs. Songs, smells, everything.

And I'm guilty of that because i just go deep with with with experiences you know i am i am such a person that i do value the deepest relationships and i there's something about life that i want the richest of experiences and it might make me fucking annoying and because i'm always trying to reach a little deeper a little higher but man sitting across from you enjoying a fucking cigar and a beer smoking weed with mike tyson do all the things that i that i do man it's because i don't want to be on the fucking couch just sitting there doing fuck all man there's an entire world out there that if you dream it up man you can live it it can be i am a living example of what what what sticking to your fucking dreams can do and

despite the fact that my dreams are different than most i mean it is what it is i still have a leg in this fight i couldn't have that without intense visualization and belief system. Well, there is a parallel. Like I was saying, like your willingness to stick to this after all these years, the willingness to keep swinging, where a lot of people would have tapped out, man.

A lot of people had to tap out. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's, I have, I've been afforded an opportunity that i am not going to pass up and you know joe in every which way that i want to make myself proud and the people around me i want to make you proud i know this sounds crazy but dude this is the show's work i am the show's work the show is bigger than all of us it's weird man i feel like i'm just uh an antenna no no no you're a wizard you change the world on the end of your fucking phone. You change the world with the voices that get communicated through this thing.

It's not small. I know what you're saying, but I'm telling you, man. I'm just being honest. From my own personal perspective, I just show up. It's a weird thing, man. That's what becomes when your calling calls you. That's what becomes. It's sort of like me.

I just show up. This thing made me. I didn't make it. It made me. It's made me who I am make it it made me it's made me who i am it's changed me if you go back and listen to my perspective from 2009 to my perspective in 2021 i'm a different person and it's not just because of life experiences it's directly related to the conversations i've had on this podcast and my thinking of it the the pros the cons the criticisms the praise the the the life-affirming experiences the

the the deep profound moments that i've had with people anyone who has watched the show knows when that change happened for you it did it was evident it just went from a little bit more on the kaka pipi side and just like we don't know what we're doing it's fun and then you had someone on there just like holy shit and you just watch your brain going and man there's just nothing like standing in front of your processing brain you saw the reaches of this thing and you just watch your brain going. And, man, there's just nothing like standing in front of your processing brain. You saw the reaches of this thing, and you saw that, okay, this is more than. I tell you exactly when I realized something was going on, I was on stage doing stand-up in Chicago. I was at the Chicago Theater.

I don't remember what year it was. I think it was like 2011 or something like that. And the show was sold out. It's a packed house. It was 3,700 people. And I had a bit. And in the bit, I was asked a question because it was about something that happened on the podcast. And I said, how many of you guys listen to the podcast?

And I expected it to be like a few people. And it was, yeah. And to this day, I remember that moment. I remember going, oh, shit. Because to be able to do what I do i have to kind of block out what's happening i have to block out responsibility i have to block that out too i have to block out the numbers i get it that's got to be it's got to be a little bit intimidating i know that just by virtue of being here i'm worried that if i say the wrong thing that even i don't understand that

i've said that someone else can misconstrued i can be in a lot of trouble you're a very famous person you are under the fucking radar and i will say that i've watched for too long that there's been an almost takedown fucking effort for you for a while there well it's not appreciate that natural it's natural to want to take someone down they build you up to take you down man it's just the way it's not even that they build you up it's just natural to see someone achieving something that's really like doesn't it it's it's it's not natural well what you're doing is you're challenging the establishment but it's also that but it's also someone that it's getting a disproportionate amount of attention there's a lot of threat but it's not even just that you're a

threat you're you become a target because all these people are paying attention why are you paying attention to this fucking idiot i'm with you if you you want to say why you pay attention to this idiot i'm on your side i don't think cnn and everyone wants your views everyone looks to you what is he doing and how can we stop that and incorporate it you did something that was that was you pioneered a thing that that broke beyond the control it be okay and and you did it under the radar before anyone could even know that it happened it's kind of like bitcoin and i bitcoin started out as as what it was and bitcoin's rise is something that is no longer something that can be ignored and it happened before anyone could stop it and now it's gone too fucking big it just is what it and on that note i just want to say joe in every which way that i do this i want to recommend a guest i think it's time especially with especially with bitcoin

in the way that it's going you know a guy like me i don't have the chance like i that much of the sacrifice and what i did is that i'm not going to have a retirement my ugliest years are ahead of me i don't want to what are you talking about stop talking dude i haven't got a profession talking about stop i got years ahead. I get it, but you'll be fine. I mean, that's what you think. I know you'll be fine. It's what you want to, but you'll be fine. Whereas other people

have that, I don't. So I have been consciously trying to buy Bitcoin. I've been trying to learn about Bitcoin and whatnot. It is truly rare, and it is a thing that is offering opportunity to people like me for generational wealth and everything. And anyways, I just think right now, with Bitcoin having repeated over and over and over,

new all-time highs, you got to have Anthony Pompliano on the show. Pomp. Do you know who Pomp is? No. Pomp is the guy who is every morning writing to institutions. Hope, please. Jamie. Look up Pomp. Actually, he's got quite a... Jamie just went like this. Do you know Pomp? Are you into please. Jamie. Look up Pomp. Actually, he's got quite a...

Jamie just went like this. Do you know Pomp? Are you into Bitcoin? Yeah, he knows Pomp. Yeah, Pomp's the guy. Are you not buying it, Jamie? Jamie's not buying it. Bitcoin?

No. Bitcoin, yeah, but... Pomp? Goss to have Pomp. He's not buying it. Goss to have Pomp. Pomp is the guy who's... Is he your friend?

No, Pomp is the guy that I listen to and it's just over time, everything just makes sense and he's also the guy who...omp is a guy that I listen to, and it's just over time, everything just makes sense. And he's also the guy who, you know, he's a founder of a fund. He's actually at forefront of a lot of the different technological things. I mean, I'm invested, if you will mind,

in the ability that I can, on a thing called BlockFi. You know, Bitcoin is really revolutionizing finances in ways that is just not something you had not something you want to andreas antonopoulos on a couple yeah he's he is the he is the uh the only thing about uh about him and bitcoin jesus he's bitcoin he doesn't like that term he's not bitcoin jesus yeah i was gonna say bitcoin moses okay yeah he likes but but it's difficult for people to relate necessarily with him because he almost is a bitcoin and just the way that he speaks he's very he's very technical and yeah well he's he's definitely a robot.

And he's done it from, from day one. I mean, that guy is in every which way is to be attributed for the success of Bitcoin. Well, he makes all of his income. He pays all of his bills. Exactly. He does everything through Bitcoin. And there was a time where people realized that

he wasn't rich. You know, his story is crazy. He actually endured a sickness of a family and everything, and he'd been working so hard for, with Bitcoin and he was never rich from it. And then when it came out, because something had happened on a Reddit where he was being called out because he wasn't rich.

You know, you'd think that the man would have, wait a minute, wait a minute. You get called out for not being rich. You get called out. If you're that guy who's just not rich, but,

but the circumstances of, of, of his, of his situation was such that he just couldn't, he was giving Bitcoin away. He was operating with Bitcoin and everything. He did everything to help progress the, uh,

and advance the adoption. But he himself wasn't really reaping the benefits of it in the ways that the people that he was helping. And so what happened is that became common knowledge and people started donating. And he received millions of dollars in Bitcoin. No, I know about all that. Yeah, it's great. It's a wonderful thing. In fact, in all the communities that I've come across, the most generous that I've ever met is that Bitcoin community.

I mean, there was a while during the last bull run where there was a fund that was funding a bunch of good things and anyway i just i i do just love it i know peter schiff who's on the he's a friend of the show and he's on here all the time he and pomp are always head to head always head to head i think and i'm only one person it would be just a brilliant thing to have the two so that they can finally have this conversation because there's got to be some common ground that can be found and none of it's going to be done over twitter war so i just think pomp would be a great and in my small way that's me pushing uh bitcoin because uh you know not everyone gets the the luxury of sitting at this microphone so if i can help its adoption even

even a tenth of a percent then fucking i'll take it it's interesting where it's going i wonder like is it possible for there to be one form of currency that is like Bitcoin or is there going to be a bunch of different other currencies like different other cryptocurrencies there will but they'll all be they'll have different attributions so like Bitcoin will be the one that you draw from your savings if you will like that is the that is technically the the goal that is your savings account if you will and then thereafter is the, that is technically the goal. That is your savings account, if you will. And then thereafter you'll, you'll independently buy different coins for different functions.

I mean, I see a time, like I work for Canada post. Um, I see a time when stamps don't exist. You buy, and this might be a strange example, but you buy a Canada post token, and then you attribute that token via however to an envelope and then you send it like the idea of paper stickers and everything so you'll use your bitcoin to transfer money to other currencies that have different case uses and then go from there but the bitcoin always remains king i will just say this joe in every which way that you have money in a cash position sitting in a bank you are losing money every day to inflation and not inflation to your are you a banker what

the fuck happened would you imagine something? Let me say this. We're just coming to a Bitcoin pitch. I was having fun before. Can I just say this? That before all of this, I was interested in finances. It actually was an area that I would have gone towards. Just keep getting sued.

And then all of that comes. The Jane Goodall thing is interesting. You almost had an opportunity to... I was even a warden. Somebody reached out to try to get Jane Goodall on a podcast, too, and I'm kicking myself that I never did it. Do it. It's not too late.

Well, it is kind of... I hate Zoom. With a person of that profile and so interesting, I would want to sit down with that lady and talk to her. That would be a great interview. But the big thing I would talk to her about is Bigfoot. So let me ask you this while we bring this up. Jane Goodall believes whole hog in Bigfoot.

Is that right? Oh, yeah. So let me ask you this. Listen, Jane Goodall has said, see if you can find the interview, because it's really fascinating. She said she's sure of it. I've never heard that.

Yeah. Well, it all boils down to the animal used to be real. It used to be a gigantopithecus. It was a bipedal hominid or ape, whatever you want to call it, that was somewhere in the neighborhood of eight feet tall. And it was in the orangutan family. So she says that exists. She thinks it's real.

She thinks it's still out there. Here's his Yeti. I'm a romantic. Good all replied. She goes, I would like Bigfoot to exist. I've met people who swear they've seen Bigfoot. I think the interesting thing is every single continent, there's an equivalent to Bigfoot or Sasquatch. There's the Yeti, the Yahweh in Australia, the Chinese wild man, and so on. I've heard stories from people.

No, but that's not the interview. The interview is interesting. See if you can find the audio because the the fact what's interesting in the audio is someone asks her and she says i'm sure of it she literally says those words i'm sure of it this is pretty new though yeah yeah but i want to hear the audio the bitch has probably amended her she would be a i shouldn't have said that word the b word because she's an older but I say that about my mom it's a term of endearment

amongst comedians in particular I love that lady I think what she's done to sort of elevate understanding about primates is pretty spectacular I mentioned it on the last show but Ingrid Visser is a wild orca specialist

in New Zealand she rescues wild orca specialist in New Zealand. I've had the, uh, she rescues wild orcas all the time. She swims with them. Rescues wild orcas. How'd she set rescue? She is the rescue of wild orcas in New Zealand. Rescue them from? They beach, they get beached. Oh, I see. Quite often. In fact, one of my friends who was in the military, uh, Matt Harris, he, he was in, uh, New Zealand when one of the, one of the, an orca beached itself and they were called, they were doing, uh, they were doing some practices on the beach and they were called. And next thing you know, my friend who's from Welland is actually with Ingrid in a photograph at the

tail, my childhood friend. I fucking knew this guy since I was five years old at the tail of an orca. And there's Ingrid, the fucking world's like foremost specialist of wild orcas. And dude. Do orcas kill walruses? Sure.

Yeah. Transients would. Transients. There are multiple, there are two different types of orcas. There's one that is now being called Biggs, who's named after the scientist who named the species of orcas, but they're called transients. They're the ones that feed on mammals. And then there's the resident orcas.

They're the ones that you're familiar with in the Northwest Pacific. Right. The Pacific North. The Chinook salmon. That's an issue because they won't eat mammals and they're starving to death. Although there was some successful births this year.

So there's reason for optimism. Whereas in years past, there was orcas that were born dead. And there was obviously, you can see that they were becoming a little bit emaciated and whatnot. I mean, I don't want to sit here and declare that this is behind us, but there were some successful births this year. So there's reason to be, you know, Canada implemented some traffic laws and some different laws to sort of stop impeding on their natural environment. It's a big issue with dams because the Chinook sounds. It's the Snake River Dam that is reducing the Chinook population for the whales.

It really is. And that dam system is sort of archaic. It just becomes a question of who's going to make the decision to tear that down. Well, the history of damming, particularly in Pacific Northwest, is literally a genocide of salmon do you have the the audio yes oh it's from 2002 that's fine 18 years older I don't give a fuck play it right for coming in to join us today I don't know where in the video it says if you'd like to talk with us a good all that our number is 1-800-989-8255. I wanted to ask you two quick questions.

I wanted to know if you believe there are any undiscovered large ape species and believe that the bonobo chimpanzee is a subspecies of the chimp or a separate species. Okay, well I'll do the second one first because that's easy. It's definitely another species. It's admitted very widely that it's a... I mean, it's known, it's described as another species. It's a bonobo, not a pig, a chimpanzee. Different in many, many ways. What a wild species that is.

I mean, just incredible. Yeah. Rich species. Yeah, species that likes to fuck its kids. That's right. The chimps do. So we don't have DNA samples of aliens. And that's been your argument as to whether they exist or not.

But there's no bigfoot. You're talking about a yeti or bigfoot or sasquatch. Is that what he's talking about? Yes, it is. Is that the message I'm missing here? I think that's the message you're missing. Is that right, Cherie? Pretty much.

I'm out of the loop. Go ahead. Well, now, you'll be amazed when I tell you that I'm sure that they exist. You are? Yeah. I've talked to so many Native Americans who've all described the same sounds, two who've seen them. I've probably got about, oh, 30 books that have come from different parts of the world,

from China, from all over the place. There was a little tiny snippet in the newspaper just last week which says that British scientists have found what they believe to be a yeti hare and that the scientists in the Natural History Museum in London couldn't identify it as any known animal. That was just a wee bit in the newspaper and obviously we have to hear a little bit more about that. In this age of dna if you find hair there might be some cells on it well there will be and i'm sure that's what they've examined

they don't match up what this my little tiny snippet says that don't match up with dna cells from known animals so i mean a romantic wants to believe i get it too i want to believe things i get it what do you want to believe? I want to believe That I'm going to get That fucking walrus back I believe it I know it sounds Fucking crazy

Yeah but that's That's more likely Than Bigfoot Like what she wants To believe is Is Or She wants to believe

The impossible I get it I don't know if it's impossible I don't know if it's impossible Like because this This discussion in 2002 was before they had found Homo floriensis in the island of Flores,

which is a tiny little person, like a hobbit person that existed. They think it used tools. They think it had a tiny brain, like a chimpanzee-sized brain, but it stood upright and was an example of another version of human being. That's a post-2000 discovery? Oh yeah.

Can you imagine what it is that we haven't discovered yet? Make sure I'm right about that. Homo floriensis floriensis? I think it's floriensis. I believe, I want to say that discovery was somewhere around 2010. 2003? It's crazy to think

that we're still finding things. So that was just a year after she was doing this interview they discovered this tiny human being that lived as recently as 10 000 years ago jesus now the the gigantopithecus they found in a an apothecary shop i want to say an anthropologist found in the 1930s they found a primate tooth that they couldn't attribute to any known primate. They couldn't attribute it to a gorilla or orangutan or anything like that. It was huge. And the anthropologist then led an expedition to try to find the exact location where they had discovered these teeth.

And they had found pieces of bone that indicate it was bipedal. And there's some controversy as to whether or not it was bipedal, but there's no controversy as to whether or not it was an actual species. Right. So they think there was... So it exists. Yeah, it did exist. As recently as 100,000 years ago.

So I think that's where a lot of this Bigfoot shit comes from. I think it comes from that one point in time, while there were humans, there also were these things. And I think these stories get passed down from generation to generation. But the real problem is, like, I don't believe language existed 100,000 years ago. I think if I want to say 40,000 years. What was the invention? What's the oldest known language? What do they believe? No, how about this?

How long ago was language invented? I want to say it's 40,000 years ago, which is really crazy. When you think of how recently that is, that's a fucking blink of the eye. When I go back in history and I think of how recent everything is, especially's a fucking blink of the eye. Dude, when I go back in history and I think of how recent everything is, especially as I age and I see what a decade is,

a decade you can sneeze away very quickly. You see just how, well, A, you can see how slow progress is. You and I have known each other for almost a decade. It's so crazy. I can still feel like I sat here across from you for the very first time smoking a big fat J before the 425. Speaking of which, if anyone in Austin knows where I can grab them. Oh, I know.

Don't tell anybody. Dude, you don't even know. Come on, we're anyone in Austin knows where I can grab them. Oh, I know. Shh. Don't tell anybody. Dude, you don't even know. Come on. Energy up. We're all good. Thank you, sir. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My hero.

It's essentially decriminalized here. But it's illegal here. But tigers aren't. It doesn't make sense. It's the same in Canada prior to all this. You needed a permit to have a raccoon in captivity because it was native to Ontario. You couldn't touch them. But you could bring in a fucking dolphin from just about anywhere and put them in the back of your pool with no regulations whatsoever that's hilarious it's the hypocrisy

and the craziness of what is raccoons are known cunts a bunch of garbage stealing little assholes i'm just kidding i'm just kidding i don't have a problem with raccoons i think if you were nice to raccoons they'd probably be nice to you like from like people have pet raccoons right i like raccoons i got no beef what's the problem. Like from, like people have pet raccoons, right? I like raccoons. I got no beef. What's the problem? No, I understand. But I mean, from the, from like the idea of like being like tight with a raccoon, like you are with a dog.

I've seen it. Yeah. It exists. It exists. Not something to do and I don't encourage it. Don't encourage it. Yeah. Because then you got to.

Get your dogs. Get a dog. You like a raccoon? You know, I'm the person that has that mythological and almost sought after romantic relationship with an animal i have that she thinks i'm her mom it's the thing everyone wants when they get an animal right that's what's so crazy so in every which way that people either be it criticize me and everything i'm just like but you want the same thing i have why do you think that is why do you think people want animals to need them because as that is a thing we have and i have a feeling it's like I have a feeling it's like,

I have a feeling it's related to, there's certain things that people do when they have problems, where they, instead of dealing with their own problems, they try to find problems in other people. And this is one of the problems with Twitter. It's a psychological issue with avoiding, avoiding real issues that you have to deal with that are uncomfortable,

and instead focusing on things that you can exert all of your angst and energy on but they don't necessarily have like legitimate consequences in terms of like like restructuring your own life and dealing with your own bullshit this takes me to my next experience of being an activist more often than not what I find is a lot of activists become activists because they're running away from a home that is not right yeah and what happens is that as i learn is that these people's these and i'm not i shouldn't say these people um they come they they're earnest they're genuine they want this there's no staying power they're there for whatever reason but it my invitation to

activists is make sure your home is right because we need proper criminals we need someone who has is clear of mind and is not out there to judge attack belittle and all of that stuff and what becomes of that is when you've got people that come from a place that is maybe not in order yes they take it out in that capacity. And that's the level of activism that I find to be the opposite of what should be activism. Take care of your home first so that you can come proper,

as a proper criminal, I say. I like to work with proper criminals. And you come to me and you're, like I said, when it's a person who's been fired from Marine Land, they come to me, I got something to say.

I don't want to talk to you. It's too late. Talk to me when you're still there. Now you got, now, now you're somebody to me. Same as if you're running from a, it just happens a lot.

People, they, they are reaching for something to fill that void. And it happens very often. I would even say in a lot of ways, veganism, you know,

what's strange about veganism is if you look at the stats and I can attest to it, I know a lot of vegans. I know what happens after midnight. I know what happens after a few years. I have actually stuck to this thing longer than what statistically vegans last. They just don't last typically this long.

They just don't stick with veganism as long as they do. A lot of people run towards veganism or, or again, other levels of activism because they feel that it's going to be the answer to their thing. And again, I can say this because I'm not an activist.

Like I didn't. It's also instantaneous righteousness. Instantaneous. They're right. and it's it's escapism it's escapism you're able to escape into something that's different they believe in it like you can't dismiss their belief in it you know i think but instantaneous righteousness is very intoxicating like the idea that you could be the person like that's why so many of them are cunts. That's one of the weirdest things about vegans. So many of them are fucking assholes. Like that is the dumbest and worst way to get your concepts across. Nailed it, man.

Is to be shitty to people that don't agree with you. I'm a walking example of that. Because you're not compassionate. Then you're not compassionate. That's exactly it. You're not a compassionate person. What you are is a person who's using this really arguable concept that we should be kinder to animals.

And you're using that as a tool to be shitty to other human beings. Now, having said that, there are some great ones. In fact, there's a vegan on Twitter who is called she is called the Korean vegan. And she's actually just started out on Did you find out when language was discovered?

The oldest written one was 5,000 years ago. There's an estimation of 15,000, anywhere from 100 to 350,000 years ago for the oldest spoken language. 300? The estimations are wild. Wow. Let's go with your figure.

Proto. Proto-African. I'm pretty sure I read 40,000 years ago, but these estimates change because the estimates of the oldest civilization have changed pretty radically, especially after Gobekli Tepe was discovered. They realized they were making complex stone structures 14,000 plus years ago. That's without question, right? Gobekli Tepe is not a theory. No, no, no.

is not a theory. No, no, no. It's not only that. It's one of the most uniquely provable sites because it was purposely covered 14,000 years ago. So it's not just that it was 12,000 plus years old. It's that it was covered up 12,000 plus years ago. So it's one of those things. There's a thing.

This is breaking down on the Wikipedia about the proto-human language. This one, Richard Klein, said the ability to produce complex speech only developed some 50,000 years ago. Another study says somewhere in the range of 150,000 to 350,000 years ago that may have been possible. It's theoretical. But one of the things that they do know is that monkeys will trick other monkeys,

and they'll make a sound like eagles there, and the monkeys will panic, and they'll run away because eagles kill monkeys. Like particularly those eagles in South America, harpy eagles. Yeah. You ever see a harpy eagle? No. Oh, Jesus Christ. They're the biggest.

They're crazy. They eat sloths. Birds scare me, by the way, oddly. These motherfuckers are awesome. My biggest fear is being eaten alive, and I don't know why. I'm not the size of something a bird can eat, but I always think that's just as awesome as a bird. Monkeys use their eagle call to warn each other about drones.

Oh, shit. Whoa, that's crazy. They see a drone, they think it's an eagle. But that's language. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have a sound. I mean, they have a few sounds that indicate certain things,

but some monkeys have tricked other monkeys. Well, they'll yell out the eagle sound and use it to snatch fruit. Dirty little monkeys. I love it. Well, the thing about language, it would have started out as one thing, and then it would have become another. And when it comes to history and taking history and whatnot, I imagine it would have required a level of evolved language

just to be able to take in the history of it all. You know what I mean? Sure, but also they recognize deception. They recognize the benefits of deception, which is how politics started. Geniuses. So I don't remember why we came up, why were we talking about language?

It had something to do with Homo floriensis and Bigfoot. Oh, 100,000 years ago. That's what it was. That Gigantopithecus existed in the range of time where maybe language did or didn't exist. So if they found these teeth that were 100,000 years old, it's conceivable that that thing survived far past that. They don't really exactly know when Gigantopithecus was extinct. They just know that they have teeth

that indicate it was for sure alive in the neighborhood of 100,000 years ago. So that's probably... They found some of those teeth in shipments of dragon bones? Oh. What the fuck were dragon bones? What the hell?

I'm sure they were selling them as dragon bones yeah but like i wonder what those probably dinosaur rocks or something dragon bones it says they collected 47 teeth among shipments of in quotes dragon bones speaking of dragon bones anybody like heard from charlie sheen lately remember that guy that's tiger blood yeah tiger blood dragon bones my friend saw him at a restaurant one time and I'm like, get the fuck out of here. And he takes a video

and he goes, look, he eats. Because he's just, the guy's going like this. And I'm just like, he eats. Imagine that that guy

had achieved like this enormous, oh, here it goes. From baller to squalor, Charlie Sheen moves into modest Malibu apartment after he's forced to live

with his dad, 80, and mom, 76. Oh, it is, man. I heard he lost all his teeth. I know he's unwell, so I guess if... Well, that's what becomes, I guess.

See if you can find the most current photo of Charlie Sheen. I figured that would have had it. I remember when people were using hashtag TigerBlood. And that wasn't that long ago, right? It was like 15 years ago? No, not that long ago. It was 10. 2011, I think. He went off long ago. It was 10. 10?

2011, I think. He went off the rails. That was a crazy time. Well, when people found out that he had HIV, that's when they were like, not so funny anymore. And, you know, he possibly had given it to other people. Not the coolest thing, Charlie. He was the guy that was like,

you remember when he did that interview? Where he was like, yeah, I fucking smoke crack. Yeah, I love it. Tiger bliss. I would smoke grams of it. Yeah. Hashtag winning. Did he even use hashtag winning or did he just say winning?

He used hashtag winning. I don't think he does anymore. I mean, but I don't think he said hashtag winning. I think he just said winning. Yeah, winning. He was half a year ago. Jesus Christ. Please play that.

Play that. This is real. Let me get some volume. He's doing it for Cameo. It's a thing. Is it not working? I will remain here. I will remain available.

I will remain available if you can all agree that all the tiger blood and winning, and if we could just kind of leave that where it belongs in the past. This is tough to watch, man. This is very difficult. Sounds like he doesn't want to say that. Keep going. That we're all finding our way through. So if a message from me can brighten the day of yourself or a loved one or even someone you don't really care about,

then I'm honored to offer that. So greetings, good people of Planet Cameo. It's the Sheen. I'm back. Whoa. That's heavy. I remember when he was doing live performances where he was going out and he was selling out theaters.

And the first one he did was everybody was excited to see him but then they realized this was after he got fired from Two and a Half Men they realized he really didn't have an act yet. then he realized like i gotta do something i sold out all these theaters and now people are gonna scream at me and be mad at me because he was like fuck you you paid to see me you fucking losers like that kind of shit he was just being defensive right right then he hired my friend russell peters and russell peters took over and was like

interviewing him and then the shows became actually a success. Because Russell is very entertaining and... What are you doing? Canada represent. Hold on. He says that... This wasn't new, but he blames all of those fun quotes on too much testosterone

cream he was using to try to get his libido up. Roid rage. Accidental roid rage. That's where tiger blood came from? Nothing to do with coke. By the way, do you know who the last noted celebrity was to visit Marineland? Who? Russell Peters.

Scroll up. Let me see what he looked like back then. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Scroll down. The video. Look how good he looked. He looked vibrant. It is sad to see where he's gone in his voice. There's just not enough there. Let me hear that. That's Michael Strahan is interviewing him. For eight months now, I've been enrolled in an FDA

study for a medication for a drug called Pro-140. That's in the late stages of its trial run. We are very close to being approved. And it is not this hideous cocktail that leads to so many side effects, emotionally and physically.

It's one shot a week. It's going well, and I feel like I'm carrying the torch for a lot of folks out there that are suffering from the same thing, you know? In all of this that has happened, have there been a silver lining? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the day I was diagnosed,

I immediately wanted to eat a bullet. Can I stop at the pause right there? Michael Strahan is such a stud that his lisp actually helps him become more endearing. He never fixed the gap in his teeth, yeah. But it's also like, it's like such a fucking alpha, such a beast of a man, such a manly man. He invites you to criticize it. Go ahead. But when he has a little list be like

like you a little bit more it's a little bit a little bit easier to deal with the fact that you're a superhuman but i think that he was talking about hiv yeah and that's when he was yeah yeah i want to go way back see this was what year was this three years ago jesus christ he looks so much better three years ago jesus christ he looked so much better three years ago what is going on man that's a it's a really sad thing to see because you know he he was i mean he captivated the world for a while i get it but it's so sad to see you know there's something about someone who becomes uh humble later and i mean there's a level of humility that is evident in that video where we watch that he's he's trying to get some cameo orders like it was a dude that was also he was embracing being like uh shamed

he was like yeah i smoke crack yeah i i eat like i pay hookers to leave like he was he had all this wildness to like the way he was accepting this shit. It was like a defiance. People were like, yeah. Because people were tired of people being like, they were being humbled by this. It goes back to the genuine and the honesty factor. I mean, is there anything more honesty than admitting your drug addiction? It was that, but it was also that he used to be Charlie Sheen. He was Charlie Sheen from Major League and Platoon. And he was a massive movie star. And then all of a sudden

here he is on television talking about smoking crack. He had tiger blood. He was a giant conspiracy theorist for a while too. Remember he wrote a letter to Obama demanding

that Obama release the truth about 9-11. Do you remember that, Jamie? No, I was just about to ask you where... I couldn't remember where this all started. The Charlie Sheen stuff, you know, like where did that first hit? Was he live streaming on something?

Well, he got fired from... It was the firing. That's what propelled it all. He got fired from two and a half men. And then he went off on... He started calling the guy by his proper Jewish name. So it started off as... He started... And then he went off.

Who did he call? Oh, the Alex Jones. Alex Jones, man. Speaking of Alex, Alex Jones called me once. He goes, hey, Joe, someone wants to talk to you. And he puts me on the phone with Gary Busey. Oh, shit. Post-motorcycle accident.

And Gary Busey was, I mean, it was literally like I was the beneficiary of this long rant. I go, hey, man, what's up? And he was like, hey, Joe, I want to talk to you about the universe and life and expanding consciousness and all these different things that are happening to you right now. And Gary Busey just talked at me for a few minutes and then gave the phone back to Alex. And I go, what the fuck was that? I'll call you later, man. I have to say, it's got to be a unique experience to be you.

Because it is what it is. You're you. You don't know you're you. You have some very unique experiences when you get calls from jerry bucey or gary bucey rather and these things i mean there's got to be something to it where you got to thank yourself for the brilliance of the art that you've invited into your life because that is exactly what that is it's just the craziness of all of it yeah i mean i definitely think it's weird but uh i don't i think one of the reasons why it happens i don't think about it that much i go wow all right i just keep moving you one of the reasons why it happens i don't think about it that much

i go wow all right i just keep moving you're at the mercy of what you created man you uh you created a thing that uh that everyone's want to touch on so you're gonna get the phone calls i love it i think it's i love it dude i gotta say like again when i think of the very few people in my life that i that i that i just, that inspire, but also almost confused to the level is your, your ability to retain information, even just by virtue of us having this conversation, you keep pulling stuff out from years past that I recall we touched on in years past and you still know it all. Like you have a very remarkable brain, Joe.

Yeah. It's really inconsistent though. It's inconsistent as fuck. It's human. I forget people's names and they think I'm doing it on purpose. Well, it's tough to know a million fucking people, dude. Who the fuck's that guy's name? That James O'Keefe dude? That guy believes that I forgot his name on purpose? No, dude. I'm a moron.

It's like what you said to me. Like, I had to watch the film this morning, because if I watch it a few days ago, it's just going to be in the mix with the rest, right? I get it. You've got a lot going on, dude. And then this is why a lot of people, they look at the likes of me being on the show and they're just like how the fuck dude i'm just like blessing bro you're my homie blessings we text each other man we're friends joe you're the only guy i gotta say like i get your i get your refreshed

phone numbers what the fuck you know people are like people have said to me hey uh i got joe's old number there you think you can give me i don't? I don't text them. Bro, we've gone through, you and I have gone through eight phone numbers. I've had eight phone numbers since I've known you. It's a blessing every time I send you a text, and I'm like, okay, no response from Joe. I'm going to send you a new one next week, because we're about due. Thank you, my brother. It's over. Dude, new number.

Here it is. I'm like, hanging on. One of the reasons why I hang on is because Elon Musk still texts me. Oh, yeah. I don't want him to not text me anymore. He's like, when he texts me, he's like the one dude to text me. I'm like, oh, shit.

I show my wife. So you get that, eh? All the time. Dude, that's what I get from you. Oh, yeah, man. I get a text. I go like this. Yeah.

I was on the plane the other day, and I'm coming in. The guy's like, what are you here for? I'm like, I'm going on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. The fuck? I'm just like this. Yeah. There it is, is day made it's weird it's weird to be me to be me dude to be me being me is weird gift you're a true gift to him well i just uh whatever the vibration of this thing is it chose me and i just keep doing it it's exactly what i say of say of how it is that I found myself in this situation.

All I did was allowed myself to flow. And in every which way, I opened myself to whatever it is that becomes. And here we are. I think that's true. I absolutely know. I think that's true. And I think that's why dolphin captivity and porpoise and orca captivity is now illegal in Canada. It's bigger than us, man.

We did it. We helped do it. But there's something bigger. There's just something bigger. It's authenticity and the fact man. We did it. We, we helped do it, but there's something bigger. There's just something bigger. It's authenticity and the fact that you've committed to the battle and then, and you know, and the fact that you have is why I recognized it early on and I clung to you.

I'm like, okay, we're on this ride together. I can't tell you again, you're of the few people that still answer the phone. And if you put yourself in my mind, you'll realize just how crazy that is. Because again, if you didn't't this fight doesn't continue so joe in every which way i am endeavored to you just um well there's more of us out there man it's not just me and and i will send that call out to everyone it's we're real close folks we're real close to changing

this everywhere we're not going to change it in China. They don't understand what we're saying. But we might change it worldwide to the people where this message resonates. You can't put dolphins in a fucking swimming pool. It's wrong. It's not that much different than putting people in a cage that are innocent. It's not that much different. It's really not. The only difference is we don't understand their wails, their screams for release, their cries for help.

We don't understand what those sounds are. But whatever they know what they're saying, if another dolphin heard it, they would recognize that scream for help. In the documentary, and you touched on it, when the dolphin was being force-fed, I can tell you what the sound he was making was, and I can tell you what that caused the other dolphins to do.

They became quite protective of him. It was a distress call every time, and there's nothing more gut-wrenching than recognizing a distress call, hearing it, and then being the one doing the distressing. That's a fucking pill you swallow quite harshly. It's so hard to watch, man, when they're holding his mouth

open and forcing the fish into his mouth like we did that a lot we did that a lot they still do and those fish are filled with drugs and yeah you showed me that too that was other than doctor that was in the documentary where they they put the pills inside the fish and then they tried a bunch of shit too like ssris and you know in the film i'd like to touch on this because i never had the opportunity to defend it but marine land keeps trying to call my credibility into question because they say that i was stealing drugs from them they say that i was taking drugs meant for animal consumption i just want to clear that fucking record right here now because it's touched on in the documentary because it had to be but it wasn't you know the the one

thing about the documentary is it tells a story and and it's great uh but you know there's a lot that's not in there obviously it's a story that can be told a million ways and the way that it was was genius and i think that the filmmaker natalie bibo is an absolute fucking genius and she touched and i you know i can't actually watch the film anymore i did probably too many times but there's just it it affects me now just in um in a in a far greater way um you know there's a lot of dead people in that fucking documentary a lot of people that are missing and are not missing just a you know it's just it's it's more it's more powerful to me but in in many of the stories that weren't told there's a lot of really really really dark things you know there's just a lot of

really dark things but uh i am very very thankful that the film did get made and that uh it it you know it has a an effect i i see that you i mean then you came in here you were in tears immediately because of what you saw and what you felt. It's sad as fuck, man. It's sad as fuck. And I think we're conditioned to think of dolphins as being these animals that do these things and they get fish and having a good time. And it's undeniable when you watch that documentary it's undeniable what's happening well the good of it joe is that we're changing it and it's it's happening and the future we

you and i will see a world where you're 50 you're 50 not a world yeah we'll see north america yeah i don't know that i don't think china's ever gonna know we won't see the complete abolishment of captivity I understand that but we will do it in North America We will see a world that does not exist in North America And I think so too I really hope so

Because I think it's necessary I went to Asia I went to Thailand And I went to a tiger sanctuary And it was one of the most depressing things I've ever seen in my life. And we left early. I was like, we got to get out of here. In the beginning, they walk you into this place and they have these cubs.

They introduce you to these tiger cubs. And the tiger cubs are not drugged at all. No, they don't have to be. They're just playful and they're wild. They're like big kittens. I was like, wow, this is crazy. They're great. I play with them.

Then you move into tigers that are like six months, seven months old. And they're not drugged, but there's handlers in there, multiple handlers. And they're making sure that that tiger that's looking at you kind of funny, like, settle down, bitch. Slow down. And then after that, they're lying there like this. Right. Like a heroin user. It's not a sanctuary.

And people are taking these selfies with them, and it's fucking creepy, man. They do rides in Thailand, elephant rides. I did an elephant ride, but those elephants are different because these elephants are all rescued, and they actually return them to the wild. And they made you have a relationship with this elephant before you ride it. I didn't want to ride it, but my whole family wanted to ride it, and a relationship with this elephant before you ride it i didn't want to ride it but my whole family wanted to ride it and a bunch of other people want to ride they didn't seem to give a fuck if you rode them that's one thing i can say i don't want to do it

again but i did enjoy feeding them i enjoyed washing them you do anything more majestic than standing next to a beast like that i get it absolutely well they're they're real gentle man they're gentle creatures they're they're real cool man they have a weird energy to them and like when wisdom when you're washing them and touching them they're like letting you know like thank i like this oh you really had a full experience like you spent some time all day the whole day well then you would have for sure got a great appreciation for their their majesty or i don't know that's the right word i get it this is how it starts you they they give you an education of what this their i forget the foundation so i'm gonna reach forget the name of it go ahead um i forget the the name of the foundation but they

they've returned many elephants to the wild where they because elephants are it's really easy to return them to the wild in terms of getting them to eat because they eat while you're hanging out with them they just grab bushels of but they have family bonds and and herds right that would be a challenge would be to try to reintroduce them where they're not alone that's true but they also do bond with the other elephants that are near them they like it was cool it was cool to see like they established community i mean some of them obviously have been ripped from their families. And these people, they're rescuing them and then reintroducing them. And they've been successful in reintroducing multiple elephants to the wild. Was that the same place you went to, the tiger place?

And the elephants are two separate. No, totally different. Far apart from each other. Have you ever seen what they do to elephants to break them? When they tie them down? Yes. Yeah, it's not fucking something. I mean, that's just as odd.

It's dark. How can you be that person is the question of my nine i never did anything of the sort yes i kept animals uh diets low to get their attention and do that and you know this was just an accepted practice and still is today but the idea of beating them into submission and breaking them so that they can we never did that that doesn't exist in whale dolphin captivity it doesn't it just doesn't these people were taking animals that had been abused in circuses. And then they were like reconditioning them. Second lease on life.

So they were real, real sweet. They were real sweet. And you would give them sugar cane. So you'd feed them. So this is how the introduction is like everyone gets introduced to one individual elephant. And you meet them and they they talk to you like the people that were there were very ethical about it and they were really they obviously had a a deep love and respect for these elephants and there's a video of me

on instagram go to the see if you can find the video of me saying i was in thailand with i saw that i don't recommend it i don't recommend riding them, but they're sweet animals. So you feed them first. So you give them all the sugar cane. They go, oh, this guy likes me. He's cool. He's giving me sugar cane. And then you wash them.

Yeah, that's it. Here, give me some volume on that. There's a little dolphin. Or a bunch of elephants. Dude, you're not nervous? Like, what can charge you right there? I had already rode them. Jesus, dude. You ride them. I had already rode them. Jesus, dude.

You ride them. I don't remember how I did it, though. It's a little sketchy riding them. But they're gentle animals. Super gentle. Look at that. This guy's trying to eat a log, though. I've been trying to tell him, for the past ten minutes minutes you can't eat a log but that's

the language gap he's an elephant he likes to learn his lessons hard bitch I'm gonna eat that log endearing term though right that's a great video man it was weird I love that you have a tattered hat yeah that's my Eastman elevated hat oh it's great it was – the experience was interesting because like on one hand, like I don't – I didn't want to ride them. But everybody else did and my kids were real young at the time. Did they put a saddle on there so that you're sitting or you just ride on the – Well, you get on their body. You know, there's really no saddle.

Okay. You just have a rope and the rope is just sort of so you don't fall off and one of my kids fell off but they're uh and it wasn't because the elephant tried to get her to fall off so you know if an elephant was trying to get you out yeah they're sweet man like and everybody that was there was like this was like their expression the whole time like oh i can't believe this it was mostly people having fun but um you know you get this kind of appreciation for the variety of of uh beings that exist on this amazing planet and that that is one of them and that and that these things they're they have

consciousness it's it's a different kind of consciousness it becomes a question of what you support there are places that are that your dollars and your support uh help and there are places that where you're duped you know and it just becomes a question of uh being able to sift through the bullshit and there's a lot is when it comes to bottom dollars and whatnot too often conservation takes a back seat i see too often zoos uh where the exit is where the exit is through the gift shop. And they attribute that they're conservation first. But as soon as you start to look into the way the funds are allocated, the CEOs are getting all the money. The allocation of money towards the best interest of animals is a fraction of.

That's the case with almost all charitable organizations. It's like people donate money because they think that it does well i mean and then they find out that a lot of the money is going to staffing and like the vast majority is going to like high salaries for people commercials why the fuck am i giving money to you to promote commercials for elephant rides at the african alliance so far and you're purporting to be conservationist but all you're doing is breeding more animals to pay more so that you can make more money and more people will ride them. It's awful. It just happens when there's not much

accountability, when there's charitable organizations without much accountability. You know, people are weird, man. You leave them alone and don't give them like real scrutiny and they, especially when they're operating under the umbrella of doing something ethical and moral.

And in darkness, that's the thing where you're able to operate without, uh, you know, without the oversight. And that's, uh, again, I attribute that to Marine land. There's been no laws in any capacity. They used to donate all the money to the OSPCA, which was the, uh, you know, the, the animal protection agency that, that governs, uh, you know, the Marine land was charged with multiple counts of animal cruelty. Their response was to sue the OSPCA for millions.

That's what they did. They tied them up with red tape and millions of dollars, and then the OSPCA decided in court that it was not in their best interest, it was not in the public's best interest to pursue the charges because it would be too expensive, and the fucking... and the Justice of the Peace threw out the fucking charges. That's how Scientology got tax-exempt status. That's mental.

Do you know, Scientology, they exempt status. That's mental. Do you know Scientology, they filed thousands of lawsuits against the IRS. I mean, think about it. It's funny. Anyways, it's the thing that boils my blood. I don't know. I want to believe in a just world, but you know. The world is kind of just.

It's just in the fact that even when it's unjust, people find out it's unjust. That's the beauty of today. I mean, look, I, I send a tweet out and these days my Twitter is a more powerful machine than Marine lands commercials because, you know, they, they can spend all the money they fucking want to, to, to put all these very expensive commercials on the, on the very expensive airtime. But, uh, there are more people on the internet that want to see things that aren't crafted and tailored and biased and so you know marine land's theme song which is probably the the the most genius thing that is attributed to the business it works for me now what is their theme song everyone loves marine land fuck that place are you kidding me i'm gonna take a picture of you to wrap this thing up so that people know that.

Can I do a couple of acknowledgements while I'm here? Yeah, take those grandpa glasses off. These are my $27. Look at me. Are you serious? I don't know, man. Bam. Take a few.

We got you. Can I launch a couple acknowledgements, Joe, just while we wrap this up? Any shout outs? First off, I want to just tell people if they do want to help me, the way that you can contribute to my legal defense fund is at safesmooshie.com. You'll get a... Spell smooshie. S-M-O-O-S-H-I.

So it's S-A-V-E-S-M-O-O-S-H-I.com. And then you'll see a trailer for the film and whatnot there. There it is. Thank you so much. Animal abuse whistleblower. There we go. Happening as we speak. People are...

GoFundMe. There's a GoFundMe that's available. Yes. 175,388 out of 200. It should be noted that I've raised significantly more than that.

This isn't my first campaign. I've had to, you know, back when I used to use a different, and it was only like a, they only had like months long run.

This one has sustainability so I've kept with that GoFundMe, but, so that's where people can go to help me. There are people out there that are helping me with my mental health, Joe, that I have to have,

that I have to, you're talking about your pot dealer, tribute prohibition farms, shout out. And yes, all the people that send me pot, I want to thank people that send me acid and mushrooms as well. And I'm still waiting on that DMT delivery, but,

um, about a month ago, I was in Ottawa and, uh, bear in mind, I'd been on my back on account of an injury for three months. And, uh, I'd driven up to Ottawa and I went live on Instagram that night and everyone noticed that there's something off about me. I felt off too. I can't, I can't say exactly what happened, but I wasn't right. I left Ottawa and I left a pile of dead skin behind, not literally, but there was something that I was in a tough place. I hadn't slept in a while. I hadn't eaten. Yeah. I almost call it like a culture shock. You know, you've been on a couch a long time and the world's different now. All of a sudden I'm traveling for the first time and there was something about it. And I went live and there was a woman that stepped up and she said, look, Phil, I'm a, you know, I'm a registered massage therapist and I'm this and that.

But, uh, you know, you, you, you've got some problems here. We're going to have to help you. And that night she sent me a meditation. So I started my guided meditation. I started, uh, and then thereafter she and I embarked on a journey. Her name is Michelle Wilson in Toronto. I just want to, I just want to thank her because she has helped me. I've in for the last month, I've been doing a lot of breathing exercise. I would have not known the benefits of, of meditation and breathing

because I wasn't there yet. I was, my mind is such that I wasn't able to sit down and do these things. And she, and she, she helped me do that. And so I want to thank Michelle for that. I want to thank a gentleman by the name of Paul Lazenby. He sent me at a time when I was in a tough place. He helped me. He sent me this stuff called Black Oxygen. I'm not endorsing the product. I'm just saying that he did endeavor me with this thing to help me.

Was that the MMA guy? He's the MMA guy, yeah. There's a few. Chris Cyborg, she takes this. What is it? It's like this fiber it's this it's this it's literal soil it's like they core it out of northern ontario they process it in montreal they sent he sends me this bag i put in my fucking coffee man it's a pre-workout uh thing and again i'm not working out but it was he he'd given it to me to help me with the inflammation with the injury you know what it does is it hyper oxygenates your your blood and does all these things but i will tell you

that in every which way that i fucking drink this stuff twice a day just a little bit this powder and it's all natural it's just this man it feels like a fucking it just blasts me off i've never felt anything like it so i'm not attributing i'm not hold on but what is it it's mud mud you're drinking You drink in mud? Yes. I put mud into a drink. I stir it. Whatever drink I take. What's it called? It's called black oxygen.

It's a fulvic mineral supplement of sorts. Fulvic meaning volcanic? Yeah, I guess. Is that what it means? You know more than me. If I said the word, it means nothing to me, fulvic. What does fulvic? I think it's just fulvic acid.

What I will say is- But it's from dirt? You're eating dirt? I fulvic. What is fulvic? I think it's just fulvic acid. What I will say is... But it's from dirt? You're eating dirt? I'm eating dirt. Yeah. I'm eating mud. What does fulvic mean? I'm wrong about volcanic.

It doesn't have anything to do with volcanic. It's a mineral of sorts for sure. So I'm taking this stuff and, you know, I just got to say, like, it's... I just appreciate that people are out there helping me. So, you know, he's out there and he's sending me this stuff and it helps you i have to attribute that in every which way that i have received this inordinate amount of energy at times when it wasn't there it was right after drinking this stuff it is a what is it supposed to do it gives you all these minerals that you're otherwise void of and it it and then that i'm told or that i was told it hyper oxygenates it off it your your

blood cells it off it puts oxygen to your blood cells. And that by virtue of was to help me with my, the inflammation and whatnot to my injury. I took it. Didn't make me sick. It gave me a diarrhea a little bit, which that happens sometimes I imagine. I just increased the liquid that I mix it in. But again, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to endorse it. I'm just saying that I'm just thanking Paul for that.

He's been there for a number of years. He's always tried to help me send me books and stuff and i just want to give credit to those who are are are putting me in ahead of their best interest and for no particular reason they just one more time what's the name of the product black oxygen and there's their website there's a black oxygen website so that's a uh who else pat miletic is uh he's pushing it like crazy. And Chris Cyborg's on it. She attributes it to Leverage Success and Bellator. She just, you know, she won a title one night.

And the next night she's messaging me about Black Oxygen. Again, one of those just, one of those gifts of, you know, having been on the show. So again, I just want to send out my appreciation for the people, again, that extend themselves to help me both in my rehabilitation and my injury and my mental health. Thanks to the, so because I go live on Instagram a lot, I got a lot of people that,

you know, they recognize that my activism is different. I do things a bit different, like I just do. And so I just want to attribute a little thanks to the sexy renegade crew that is out there. They are, uh, always, always have my best interest first.

If you want to follow me, uh, I have a Twitter, of course, Walrus Whisperer. I'm on Instagram, Walrus Whisperer, and, uh, do join my live cast. Um, also for my, for activism purposes, for people who are looking to, um, learn about activism, that is also just a little bit beyond Marine land,

but also to keep in, keep tabs on what is happening, visit and follow Marine land or boycott Marine land Canada, which is a Facebook group and a Instagram group. They're the ones who organize the events that I attend. I don't organize events. I just attend, but they're the ones that announce them.

So they'll announce them. I'll tweet it. And then, you know, I get a lot of, a lot of people that want to join these, these events. And so I, you know, I get a lot of, a lot of people that want to join these, uh, these events. And so, you know, so follow those things.

Those are the things you can do. And also just a quick last, uh, uh, shout out is, you know, we, we've lost some people. There are people that are missing that have had some, uh, some pretty poignant impact both in the, um, in the, uh, activist world and whatnot. And the first one is Linda Diebel. She was the writer, the original writer of the Toronto Star article. And again, this isn't in the document, you wouldn't know, but you will have heard her voice early in it. Now she's not with us anymore. And the circumstances of which are tragic, but she was a brilliant and absolute brilliant writer. And you know, that often comes as a curse. And so she's no longer with us. I do miss her. There's a woman who I had a very powerful interaction with, brief albeit, but her name was Susie Blais. And Susie impacted my life in ways that I just can't surmise with words.

So I'd like to send my love of again to her. And then I would also like to make a mention of a sacrifice, an activist, an animal rights activist that may not have seen eye to eye with everything for me, but she was a supporter and she was there at Marine land. Her name is Regan Russell and she died tragically this year she's in the documentary she's not in the documentary she she may be in the documentary i'd have to watch but she is part of of parts that could have been she's the lady in the documentary with the short dark

hair what does she look like i have to like a lady with a short dark hair oh the lady in the documentary with the short dark hair what does she look like i have to like a lady with a short dark hair oh the lady with the shirt dark hair she's she's in the beginning like it shows how long she's been protesting oh of course kath katherine ends so katherine ends is great you see her get a beat down by the cops a little later yeah okay i'll tell you a story of that cop is the guy who certified me as a scuba diver when i was 16 years old he called me a fish he said he'd never seen anyone who fucking who who reacted underwater like that. I watched the documentary. I'm like, holy shit.

I won't mention his name. It's a different time. But again, full circle. More gentle with her. Dude, that was pretty awful. That's a pretty aggressive. She's still around. She's still around.

She's there every year. And in fact, she, she organized, she has a, an NGO called Niagara Action for, Niagara Action for Animals. And she's great. A least judgmental person I've ever known. And she has been a anti-speciesist if you will. So she, in every which way sees that animals shouldn't be used. It's what she, she hopes to achieve in life is to abolish that.

But, uh, you know, these are the, these are the shoulders of the giants that I stand on. These are the people that have, have put in the work long before some bum like me come along. So, you know, in every which way that I could attribute that. And again, just back to Regan Russell. She's not in the documentary, but she could very well have been. She lost her life and she lost it in her activism. It's a really tragic story.

But just the opportunity that I can express my... How'd she lose it? There's an organization called Toronto Pig Save. And what they do is they, I mean, I don't, I don't encourage this. I don't think people should put themselves in danger, but what happens is they they're pulling up to a processing plant with pigs in the back and an activist run to the pigs and they give

them water and they, they take pictures and they show them love right before they go into the, before they go get slaughtered. It's a thing they do. She got hit by a truck and got run over and got split in half and it's no longer like it's an awful, awful, awful, awful thing. And, uh, you know, she really did.

I mean, I sacrifice, but there are people that sacrifice far more. I'm not going to say that. I don't, I don't, that's murder. I'm not going to attribute that to the driver. I don't, I don't, I'm not going to. Some people may want to do that. I'm not going to do that.

I wasn't there. That comes with charges of murder. That doesn't come with the charges that were laid. I'm not going to, some people may want to do that. I'm not going to do that. I wasn't there. And that, that comes with charges of murder. That doesn't come with the charges that were laid. I'm not going to say that. What I'm going to say is it happened and it could have been avoided both in, in ways that she could have changed things in the driver as well. But I do want to just offer both her family and whatnot, the opportunity for the fact that I can put her word, her name through this microphone is just something that I'm, I'm, I'm happy. I'm, I'm, I'm happy.

I'm, I'm honored to do so. I want to take that opportunity. And Joe, you, you're my brother. When, uh, in my darkest hours, when I think there isn't a fucking hope in hell, I only have to be reminded that I still have the, the, the, the, the, the giant with the strongest shoulders to stand on, and that is you. And thank you.

I can't thank you enough, my brother. I do feel, I feel it. And I thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for feeling me. Thank you for feeling me. It's my pleasure. And I have to tell you in all honesty that it's with great guilt that i accept that because i feel like my contribution

is the easiest it's not hard for me to do what i do it's not hard for me to have you on and talk to you i love you i appreciate you and i feel i feel compelled i've always felt compelled to help you and you are um you are you're legitimate you know you are you are what you what is advertised You are legitimate. You are what is advertised. You are who you are. You're an extremely admirable human being. I think what you're doing is amazing. Thank you, Joe.

Let's wrap this bitch up before I cry. Goodbye, everybody. Follow Walrus Whisperer on Instagram. Walrus Whisperer. Why can't I say that quick? Walrus Whisperer. You should see Mike Tyson try to say it. Basically, Walrus Whisperer. Walrus Whisperer on

Instagram and Twitter. Do you have a Facebook as well? I have Facebook, but don't waste your time. Fuck Facebook. But do go to Boycott Marine Land Canada on Facebook and on Instagram. And please visit savesmooshy.com. Again, I stress, I don't need a lot of money from people. I don't want you to be sending me $1,000, send me $5.

I just need a lot of people. As long as I got a lot of people, we're good. You're going to get a lot of people. I appreciate you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Bye, everybody. Thank you.