The Joe Rogan Experience - #1591 - Jordan Burroughs

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

Wrestler Jordan Burroughs is an Olympic Gold medalist, four-time World Champion, six-time World Cup champion, three-time Pan American Games Gold medalist and four-time Pan American champion.

the Joe Rogan experience Jordan pleasure to meet you man yeah good to meet you bro really pleasure to meet you I'm a big fan I think what you're doing first of all I think it's amazing that no one's talked to you

into doing MMA it's incredible I've been close how close? mostly the lady outside my wife Lauren really? is that no one's talked to you into doing MMA. It's incredible. I've been close. How close? Mostly the lady outside, my wife Lauren. Really? Is the one that's talked me out of it. Really?

Yeah, bro. When I graduated from college in 2011, University of Nebraska, wrestling was still on the brink of, it was in its infancy of marketing and branding and really making it a professional career. So MMA was the new kid on the block and it was growing and expanding. And we had a lot of our guys transitioning in, Henry Cejudo, Ben Askren, Daniel Cormier. And so I really thought about it. I was like, okay, I'm going to wrestle in the Olympics in London 2012, win the gold, and then I'm going to make the transition to MMA. I'll be 25 years old. I'll have plenty of time. And then I met Lauren. And she's like,

listen, you're doing well in the sport. Stay here. You're comfortable. It's just a different sport. MMA in comparison to wrestling. But it's a good thing. It is a different sport and it also has a lot more head trauma. And there's a lot of things to consider. 100%.

That's what I think about all the time. Listen, I think about going to MMA until I see a guy like Platinum Mike Perry get his whole thing split, nose crooked. I'm like, eh, I'm good. In wrestling, you lose, you get taken down, pushed out, you get pinned. In fighting, you lose, you get something broken,

choked out, tapped. It's unconscious. It's a very very very different sport wrestling it's much it's a you score as many points as possible with doing the least damage as possible and mma i feel like it's it's different it's a shame that there's not more attention put on the professional like like at one point in time, professional wrestling was actual wrestling. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like WWE entertainment. It was professional wrestling, and it was done for,

why can't they do that? I know they tried to do that a few years back. There was an organization, I think, was it Kevin Jackson that was doing it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was doing something where he was doing a professional wrestling organization, but it just didn't catch on for some reason. But yet, golf is on TV. For sure. yeah yeah yeah he was doing something where he was doing a professional wrestling organization but

it just didn't catch on for some reason but yet golf is on tv for sure baseball and all these things that are bags bro cornhole i was watching the cornhole championships on espn the other day i'm like bro this is wild like cornhole is on espn more often than wrestling but isn't that just now because of there's no crowds and covid and there's all the weirdness and there's a lot of shit that's on like if you follow sports center on instagram like half the shit they do is like people in their backyard like doing crazy dunks and stuff i think the the invention of the internet has definitely changed the game for our sport we are in an epic time where anyone can be famous.

All you need is an iPhone, cell phone, period. Like if you can film footage and upload it and it's funny, it's inventive, it's disruptive, like you have an audience and people are going to follow it. So people that are going viral now and becoming superstars aren't even the most particularly talented people in society. They just have a niche and they know how to stay consistent with it. Well, sometimes it aren't even the most particularly talented people in society they just have a niche and they know how to stay consistent with it well sometimes it doesn't even make sense like something just catches like remember the dude that was on the skateboard uh doing fleetwood

just for whatever reason everybody's like that guy looks like he's having this man a truck get him more cranberry juice and now he's on i. I look, he's always on podcasts. He's all over the place. He's a man. He bought a house. He bought a car. I mean, it's really incredible. But that's the beauty of it. Yeah.

That's the beauty of it is it gives people an opportunity. There it is right there. Yeah. So it was Professional Wrestling League that they established. And, you know, when people reference what we do, I call it Olympic wrestling. Honestly, I don't even call it professional wrestling because that is kind of an ode to the WWE and old-time WWF. So it's a unique thing that we had at this time. This is Tommy Rollins, Daniel Cormier, both extremely competitive, both great wrestlers.

Oklahoma State, Ohio State. This probably was around 2004, 2005-ish. So I was still in high school. Real pro wrestling. that's right. So they had different cities across the country that had their own teams. It was almost like XFL-esque. It kind of had that vibe.

So it's Rulon Gardner. Yeah, Rulon Gardner. And who's the... Tim Johnson. In the middle, he works for the Big Ten Network and also for ESPN. He does commentary for the NCAA Championships yearly. And then the last guy is Nate Carr

who was a NCAA champ world medalist. And Rulon is another guy that made the transition. He made the transition to MMA. Did he? I didn't know that. Yeah, he fought a bunch of times over in Japan. And actually, I think what stopped him was he lost a toe in a frostbite accident.

He's a former Corn husker so we went to the same university and i got a chance to kind of spend some time with roulon but he was out when i was kind of transitioning in and so he's an interesting cat and he is one of those guys that's like shrouded in this mystery but there's so many like epic stories about who he was what he's done how much he's eaten he's a gorilla dude massive man the size of that guy massive man um and then obviously him beating corellon which is pretty much considered the most legendary victory in wrestling history just that's a weird victory right because it's like corellon all he did was get corellon to break his grip. And it was a new rule, right?

The rules are evolving all the time in wrestling. So it's one of those rule changes that year in particular, which wasn't, it didn't translate well to the average fan. So like the toughest thing about wrestling is that the rules change so often that a non-traditional wrestling fan can't really keep up. You watch a football game. You know, listen listen you put the ball into the end zone it's six points extra point a point field goal three points right safety two you watch basketball you know if you're behind this arc it's three points if you're within it it's two points and wrestling there's so many different subjective rule sets that you're like okay well if you unlock your hands here or if this guy gets pushed out of bounds it's a point but if you shove him out of bounds, it's no points.

If he's grounded, it's no points. But if his knee is off the mat, then it's a point. So there's so many different, like, little nuances in the sport that make it difficult to follow. And even if you're within it, like, sometimes you have to address what the rule set is before you even compete in a tournament there are times where we're meeting with uh administration and referees before we compete at the olympics world championships just so we can stay current on the rule set for that year because it's just that much always evolving always evolving that is that something that plays in your head while you're actually competing do you have to think like oh wait a minute what is what's the rule for this place you know that's a good question i think

in the heat of the moment sometimes i imagine you've seen it a lot in MMA, whether it's a guy, you know, hitting someone in the back of the head or, you know, kicking them when they're down on a knee, like all these little things that when you're in the battle and you're fired up and you're trying to put this man out, like you don't even think about the rules that you just, you know, it has to be programmed. I think experience just multiple times within this position there's a certain level of savviness and mental toughness that you have to have to get there they've had a hard time getting people to watch any kind of grappling that don't grapple i think

that's that's a part there's a problem with jujitsu and one of the things they did with jujitsu they've come up with this new thing called combat jujitsu eddie bravo came up with it okay it's basically jujitsu with slapping it's kind of fucking crazy what yeah man it's crazy you gotta watch it's crazy like in the face yeah yeah or elsewhere the the thing is like in no you can punch to the body and you slap to the face the thing is with jujitsu positions there's a lot of unrealistic positions when it comes to mma yeah where like guys are hanging on an ankle and the guy's right over him and he can just start blasting him in the face. There's a thing about leg lockers are much more sophisticated now than they were back in the day. But early in the UFC, you saw some cases where guys would go for leg locks.

And see, this is combat jujitsu. Come on, bro. Stop. But it works like uh two siblings fighting over the last rice crispy that's kind of a crazy that's wagner rocha who's uh fought mma before and he's he's a beast is he tough yeah he's a bad he's a bad motherfucker he's a bad motherfucker and he wound up winning the uh i think he won the whole tournament. Because he's got so much experience with strikes and jiu-jitsu as it is. And he's an elite black belt. Stop. See, that's the thing.

Like, would that really make you release your lock to have your arm potentially broken is getting slapped in the face? Like, if I have my hands locked and I'm preventing the arm bar, like, would a slap in the face really make me like, ooh, I got to unlock, protect my face. Bam, you're done. It's a good question. You never know where a person's brain is at right yeah you know sometimes dudes just give their arm up yeah there's there's situations where guys give their arm up and sometimes give guys give their arm up in mma too when they're getting pounded on you'll see guys reach up when someone's in the mount and you know that they're giving their arm up and then they get tapped and you know i've talked to guys who actually told me that they did it they just said

i just let him take my neck or i let him take my arm right but wagner stopped guys he's got like he's got a like a palm technique too it's not just like a open-handed yeah he's just kind of going palm to the face so well he's a like i said he's a real mma fighter and he's you know he's an elite mma fighter bro but does this not look funny to you it does look a little funny i respect these dudes this dude looks like an absolute monster but the slapping just reminds me of my sister and i back in middle school when my mom and dad were at work and we had a snow day yeah and we would be fighting over the last sip of the two liter Pepsi in the fridge. That was it right there.

That's us slapping each other. If you use gloves, the thing about gloves is if they put the MMA gloves, gloves change a lot of positions. Like it's harder to get certain chokes because the gloves are thick and they get in the way. You can't get them under the chin as easy. Yeah. But that would probably be the most realistic. away you can't get them under the chin as easy yeah but that would probably be the most realistic but the reason why they use slaps it actually there's a history that goes back to the original mma like when they were first starting to do mma tournaments yeah one of them one of the really

early ones was called pancreas it was in japan and boss rootin was the master at pancreas and what boss rootin would do he's got crazy hands, and he's an elite striker. So he would pull his hands, like, I don't know how the fuck he does it, but he can get his hands way back. He'd pull them back himself, huh? And he was basically throwing punches. He was basically going, boom, boom. And instead of everybody else was slapping, he was smashing dudes and KOing dudes with

palm strikes. See if you can find some Bas Rutten. Like, Bas Rutten versus Funaki. He KO'd him with an uppercut, a palm strike upp See if you can find some Bas Rutten. Like Bas Rutten versus Funaki. He KO'd him with an uppercut. A palm strike uppercut. Yeah, because the thing about Celia... Oh, yeah, that's it. There you go. Give me a rewind on that so you can see.

Is this a Bas Rutten highlight? Yeah. Bas was smashing people over there. But again, he's an elite striker. So he's a guy who came from Holland and they're like, in the kickboxing world, Holland is like... So this was... This is like early, early 90s. I'm interested in the apparel here, right?

Because it's got like a professional wrestling vibe. Right. That was a bit of the problem because there was some rigged fights. See, Japan is famous some some rigged fights see japan is famous for for having rigged fights they would do weird shit in the early days in particular they would do weird shit where like you would seek like i don't want to name names but uh some elite fighters were paid off to take dives and they'll admit it now like you see him like literally like pro wrestling a guy's going for a heel look and like oh no oh yeah okay i'm gonna tap of course but you can tell that it's fake so there was real fights and then there was also some bullshit and there

was always a question about pancreas because some of them like when boss rootin's k-oing people well that's 100 real that's real that's as fuck. He's in pain right there. Yeah, yeah, that was tight. That hamstring was locked out. You know what's interesting? I feel like, man, that's crazy. I feel like the Japanese love combat. Yes.

Love combat. Yeah. And so that's what makes us excited for the postponed Olympic Games, right, this summer, Tokyo 2021, is wrestling is going to be one of the premier sports because of their love for combat sports there so whether it's mma kickboxing boxing itself wrestling judo sumo they love the sport and so we're really excited about that opportunity so that's going to be this summer they're going to do it with crowds that's a good question i don't know yet so the japanese prime minister made an announcement public statement

saying hey listen we're going to host the olympics this summer no matter what one of the interesting things about it is although it's happening in 21 they're still calling it tokyo 2020 i think they were saving face for all the marketing material that they already made that cost them billions of dollars right to change the zero to a one is that really worth five billion dollars or whatever that's interesting but it's going to be interesting how they figure it out because the olympic village is like a town there's 10 000 coaches and athletes from every country on the face of the planet all put into a one mile radius on this olympic campus and there's just so much interaction engagement i'm talking the the cafeteria at the olympic games is five football fields long they've got a mcdonald's like a full-size mcdonald's in the

cafeteria in the olympic village they've got foods from all different parts of the country. You've got an Italian station, a Japanese station, an American station, you know, and a Pan-African station. They have, it's insane. You have literally thousands of people swirling in at all times. It's 24 hours. You can go get a Big Mac and an apple pie at all times. Bro, like, if you're coming from America,

you can go down the street. There's a McDonald's within a mile of anybody while you're here stateside. But if you're coming from one of these smaller countries, you're coming from Guinea-Bissau, or you're coming from, I don't know, Qatar, you're like, damn, McDonald's sounds pretty good. I don't get this at the crib.

Let me go ahead, grab me a little quick, couple of McChickens, couple of double cheeseburgers, put them in the room. But it's always available. But you would think that someone competing in the room. But it's always available. Someone competing in the Olympics would want to fuel their body with the best possible food available. Some of them know they can't win.

Like, you know, like everyone going to the Olympics isn't expecting to win a medal. Like 90, I say 90 percent, large, very large percentage of the competitors at the Olympic Games. It's a long shot for them to get on the podium. They're going with the expectation like, hey, listen, I'm representing my home country with pride. I am going to a country that I've never been before. Hopefully I can be on TV. My family will be watching me back home. The opening ceremonies is the best experience for them because they get to be in a full packed arena around all the athletes that they've seen on tv but they know that realistically they're not going to win so when that mcdonald's is open 24 hours they're like let's go bro we're going here do they have to pay for it free oh

that's everything's free that's good so it's it's uh it's an interesting perspective being the olympic village it's it's a cool spot It's got to be a wild experience to be there. It must feel surreal. It's wild. So they're really strict with the way that they administer athletes and people to get in. You have to have a guest list if you want to bring anyone in. They have to be approved seven days in advance. So let's say my wife.

I'm like, hey, I want my wife to come into the Olympic Village, check out out our living space check out the free mcdonald's then i have to put her on the list seven days in advance and it has to be approved by the usopc and then also you know the ioc wow and so it's it's a it's a very bro they're not playing dog i'm telling you i'm telling you joe like they get it after he's done after and he's like oh after he's done well that makes sense well he's taking that he's taking that home with him he's putting he's putting that all in his suitcase he's gonna go start him a little mcdonald's of his own when he gets back to the crib but it's uh so when you get in the village you have to it's almost like going through tsa at an airport you got to show them your badge. They scan it. You got to get all your

bags checked and make sure that you're good to go. You don't have anything lethal in your bags. You get inside and it's literally like an apartment complex, huge apartment complex. Look at that. McDonald's is the most popular restaurant. That's crazy. Listen, they're not getting salads and chicken selects no you know they're getting cheeseburgers and mcchickens and let's you same but i i listen hey whatever you need to do to be the fastest man in the world do your thing well i guess also like when you're done you probably just want to treat yourself yeah i've been eating very strict for a long period of time yeah crazy i that was my, when I

won the gold in 2012, my first meal afterwards was McDonald's. Very first meal. I had double cheeseburger with a high sea orange to drink and a large fry. So crazy story. I'll tell you the story. So I win the Olympic gold. Right after you win, they take

you back to what they have like a media house. So it's got all of the publications from all over the world. You've got AP, Sports Illustrated, NBC, you know, just pretty much everything. And so you go back and you just bounce from room to room. It's like, okay, we got Al Michaels here. We got Bob Costas here. We got, you know, Joe Rogan here. And so you go, you show your medal.

You tell them about your experience, where you're from, who you are, what you're going to do with all this money and fame that you've just won. And then so as soon as you're ushered out of there, you competed at eight o'clock and you don't get out of there to close to midnight. So by the time it's midnight in London, really the only thing open is McDonald's, right? So I'm still in my podium outfit. Like literally what I wore on the podium, I'm still in it at midnight. And so we go wore on the podium, I'm still in it at midnight. And so we go down to like Piccadilly in London and the only thing's open is a McDonald's. And so we went to like a club for a little bit.

One of my sponsors at the time had like bottle service. They wanted to celebrate me. So we leave there, we go to McDonald's. I get inside and packed. Clubs just let out. Everyone's like hungry. They're hungover. They just got done for the night full of drinking. They're all in line. Line's crazy. I go into the McDonald's. I'm like,

damn, I've been this long day. I wrestled all day long. I do not want to stand in line. I just want to see if I can work my way to the front. So I go and ask the guy. I'm like, bro, listen, I just wrestled all day at the Excel Center. I just won an Olympic gold. Like, you think I can get in front of you? And he's like, you didn't win an Olympic. What? Stop. And I'm like, bro, I won the Olympics. He's like, no, you didn't.

And so I had my medal in my pocket. I had my gold medal in my pocket. So I pulled my gold medal out and showed this guy. He's like, starts going nuts. Oh, my God. This guy. So he's yelling. Everyone, he's pushing people out of the way in

this mcdonald's he's like this guy just won olympic gold medal let him to the front of the line let him to the front of the line and so he's pushing people in the out of the way gets me like literally escorts me to the front of the line to get me my quarter pounder and my large fry it was it was wild that's the craziest cheeseburger fry story ever it was it was wow it was wild that's the craziest cheeseburger fry story ever it was it was dope it was awesome that had to be very memorable yeah it was fun wow that's fun winning the gold medal what i mean you i know you've won the world championship what four times four worlds one olympics but how much difference nothing like it olympics are the best it's it's rare it only happens every four years it's a single day

event so you have to be your best on that single day you only get one cycle to prepare for so we think of our careers like cyclically where like in a if you're an MMA fighter you're like okay I can get an opportunity to fight for the belt as long as I continue to compete at a high level

like keep my brand awareness at a good place. But in wrestling, the pinnacle is the Olympic Games. So no matter how many world championships you win, you want that Olympic gold. And the crazy thing is the worlds are harder than the Olympics. So the Olympics are a little more condensed in terms of the qualification process. So at worlds, it's much easier to qualify. So you have 42 guys in your weight class

or in your bracket at Worlds. You only have 16 at the Olympics. So in the World Championships, I won in 2015. I wrestled six matches. The Olympics I won in 2012, I only had four matches. And so, and it's a random draw too. So you could wrestle Russia first round, which would suck, or you could wrestle Puerto Rico first round, which would suck less. And so it's a really interesting experience the way these brackets are drawn.

And I think that the Olympic Games has become so special because of everything surrounding it. You get more money, more notor notoriety more recognition moving forward like winning the gold in 2012 catapulted me to where i am right now like when i'm recognized or announced in an event it's always affiliated with that olympic gold olympic gold medalist jordan burroughs like they always tell you whenever you step off the podium you will forever be an olympic gold medalist you can't lose. They always tell you, whenever you step off the podium, you will forever be an Olympic gold medalist. You can't lose that. You can lose your belt. You can never lose your gold.

Right. It always comes home with me at the end of the day, no matter what I do moving forward. So that's pretty cool. That is an interesting perspective, right? Because if you're a fighter, you win the title, and then you lose the title in your next fight. You're a former world champion. Former world champion. But an Olympic gold medalist from 2012 is an Olympic gold medalist.

They don't put the former before. They just say Olympic. Yeah. So it's dope. Yeah, you made it through. You did it, and that's it. But then there's another guy who does it four years later. Yeah.

So it's interesting. It's got to be a crazy experience. But the world championships being more difficult, is the world championships held in a two-day is it a two-day event yeah so they changed the format in 2018 wrestling used to be a single day you weigh in the day before and then you'd wrestle all day you start in the preliminaries and then you wrestle all the way through to the finals by the end of the day five six matches you knew if you were world champion olympic champion or not now they've made a transition where you weigh in the same day.

Competition starts two hours after weigh-ins. And then it's a two-day event. You wrestle through the semifinals. And then finals and medal matches are the second day. Now if you weigh in the same day, do you cut any weight? A ton. Like so I wrestle at 74 kilos or 163. And this morning I weigh 183.

174 kilos or 163. And this morning I weigh 183. Right. So that kind of gives you perspective as to where we are in terms of what my walking around weight is when I'm just chilling and getting ready for competition or if I'm actually wrestling at my competition. So when you were supposed to be wrestling in town, this this wrestling. I'm going up a weight class. What would that be? That is 189.

Well, I can't even get to. Oh, OK. Because I'm going up a weight class. What would that be? That is 189, which I can't even get to. Oh, okay. Because I'm too. So I'm wrestling. The guy that I'm wrestling is David Taylor. Wrestled at Penn State. He is a two-time NCAA champion. World champion at the weight class above me, 86 kilos or 189 pounds in 2018. So I'm the world champ at 163.

He's the world champ at 189. That's a big gap. It's a big gap. It's a big gap it's a big gap it's a big gap and so there are only six olympic weights at at the olympic only six right so you've got 57 kilos or like one so you got let's 125 143 163 1893, and then heavyweight. And so only six weight classes. And then in a world championship year, you have 10 weights. So they give you a little more flexibility. But in the Olympic Games, they try to condense them. They're adding so many sports.

Every single cycle, you've got golf and break... They're adding breakdancing to the Olympic Games in Paris 2024. That's pretty crazy. But if they have rhythmic gymnastics, I don't see why they shouldn't have break dancing. But at the expense of other sports like wrestling where you only have six weights. Well, that's fucked up. That's fucked up.

And a single athlete or a single representative from each country per weight class. Do me a favor. Go to stanceelements on Instagram. I want to show you this dude that I just saw there yesterday. This is a dude. Break dancing. Is he sick? They're on another level.

It's pretty dope, bro. It's like elite gymnast now. I'm just a hater because it has kind of affected wrestling a little bit. It shouldn't affect wrestling. But I do agree with it. Not this gentleman. There's a guy in a red sweatsuit. See if you can find him down there.

There he is. That's it. Watch this guy. I mean it watch this guy i mean watch this this dude is crazy damn look at this i mean he might as well be an elite gymnast i mean the way he's doing those those uh back handsprings and shit i mean this guy's incredible look at this shit look at that on one hand i mean he's incredible and and then stopping perfect all to music bro like what is this dude's name jamie that's the one thing i can't deny you're you you gotta you're you're like b-boy tata yeah yeah he's nice with it b-boy

tata looks like he's from jersey shout Shout out to B-Boy Tata. Oh, that's right. You're from Camden, right? Yeah. So I grew up South Jersey, Sicklerville, New Jersey, right outside of Philly. My hometown's 20 miles from Philadelphia. That's what, that's nuts, bro. Look at that.

I have some friends that started out in breakdancing and then got into jujitsu. Yeah. My friend Richie Martinez and his brother Gio. They probably transition well. Amazingly well. They're hitting all types of- They're so fucking strong and so athletic. They can move so well. Yeah. It's like gymnasts. yeah my friend richie martinez it might be they probably transition well amazingly well they're so fucking strong and so athletic they can move so well yeah it's like gymnasts like gymnasts do well transitioning to jiu-jitsu as well i guess if you have that perspective right it's

very similar to rhythm gymnastics just a lot more there's some goofy shit in the olympics man but you can't get rid of wrestling wrestling is one of the original sports it's literally one of the original olympic sports and that's what i love about wrestling and i and and this here's been like my comparison to mma for a long time is i'm always weighing the pros and cons okay wrestling is here mma is here mma has so many amazing things i love the toughness aspect. My favorite sport outside of wrestling is boxing. I'm a big boxing fan. I love just the warrior element. I love how you come from the gutter, from the mud, and these dudes are just like gritty warriors, precision. It's an art form.

I look at MMA as an alternative to wrestling, right? And one of the things that I've seen, I've seen so many guys that I've trained alongside that have gone on to have immense success in MMA. So that's what always kind of pulls me. I'm like, damn. Like what guys? I've trained with, I've trained, been alongside Daniel. I've been alongside Marty or Kamaru Usman

I've been alongside Henry Cejudo I've wrestled Justin Gaethje numerous occasions Mike Chandler Lance Palmer like all these guys I've wrestled these guys and I've seen but it's different right just because you're a great wrestler doesn't mean you're

going to be a great fighter and just because you're you know an average wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be a great fighter and just because you're you know an average wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be an average fighter i've seen guys who i thought were average wrestlers become great fighters and guys who i thought were tremendous wrestler can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag so some guys adapt quickly to the striking aspects and some guys really struggle there's some really strong grapplers yeah that for whatever reason they have terrible hand speed their hand speed's terrible they don't have any power it's very strange yeah it's power's a weird thing like you either have it or you don't and one of the interesting things that i think about about the transition is like in wrestling if you're a righty

usually you lead right leg yeah but in fighting right if you're righty you're going to lead left that's true but in boxing they're actually training a lot of people opposite now. Really? Yeah, like Oscar De La Hoya. He fought Southpaw, but he's a right-handed fighter. Was it opposite? Yeah, I think he was a left-handed fighter and he fought Orthodox. Did De La Hoya fight Southpaw or Orthodox?

I can't even remember now. But Emmanuel Stewart started having guys do that. Because the idea would be one of the most important punches in boxing is your jab. And you should use the most dominant hand for jabs. So there's a few fighters. He's a converted southpaw. That's right. So he was a left-handed fighter, and they had him use his left hand forward and that way his power

hand was his most dominant hand which was his front hand what he jabs around it's a lot of work well that's it's the most important punch in boxing and so there's a lot like bruce lee believed in that as well there's a lot of people that think that maybe if a wrestler does fight that way with that right leg forward or wrestle that way rather they should fight that way as well yeah and i think i think the transition would be different there'd be a lot to learn and that's part of the reason i mean there's so many reasons amongst others but i'm the best in my field at wrestling i'm one of the best wrestlers in the world it is a completely different transition and learning curve to getting to mma right you got to start from the bottom so you go from this heralded space where you're a legend an icon to just another guy

and yes you have the pedigree you've got the chops to go on and you know kind of excel here but it takes time bro we have the most important skill set in my opinion most important skills it took henry a decade bro it did but i don't have that type of time i'm 30 i'm 32. the same way in the beginning yeah henry turned a corner somewhere in the ufc he wasn't seeing the fruit like it's hard to turn the corner when you don't see the fruit when you start to see celebrities sitting ringside you got holly berry here matt mcconaughey here and then you see those those payouts you're like damn let me get my stuff together let me get right well he also got really good at marketing and talking shit yeah yeah and you know the cringe king but also undeniably good as a fighter and so when the last half of his career when he became like super dedicated i mean he was crushing people crushing people with stand-up do you think he's

done i don't think so i think i think he's so competitive yeah and how old is he now 33 32 he's still young how old is henry sohudo i think 33 34 okay so he's still got years ahead of him in his prime his athletic prime and i think he's just a guy like that who's a conqueror he's just so good let me ask you this why do you think that mma fighters have a much later prime than pretty much any other sport if you look at the champions in mma it's very hard to find someone below the age of 30 why is that it's hard to put everything together because if you're're a specialist in one aspect of MMA, someone generally, the person that's going to figure out a way to beat you

is a person who's a specialist in the thing you're not good at. Like, say, if you're a wrestler and you're really good at wrestling, and then you'll come into a fight with a guy who's a really good striker who's got excellent takedown defense, and then you're kind of fucked. Like that happened when Brock Lesnar fought Alistair Overeem. Because Brock Lesnar couldn't get Alistair down, and Alistair is a K-1 Grand Prix champion and just a fucking beast. And also an enormous man too.

Of course. And Brock couldn't get him down, and he was just getting torn apart standing up. So that was the guy who solved his puzzle. It was a guy who was much bigger or as big as him but a much better striker what's interesting because i think that's why wrestlers translate well is because we i started wrestling at six years old most guys start the sport of wrestling from infancy yeah like if if it's in your bloodline you're on the mat three four five years old where a lot of other sports you're not doing doing that, right? Whether it's judo, jujitsu, kickboxing, boxing, like you don't do that for the entirety of

your life, maybe eight, nine, 10, you start to dabble in a little bit. And I think wrestling, actually wrestling is, I'm sure wrestling is the only sanctioned sport collegiately of all combat sports. So we have a very high level of pedigree in comparison to other places. So I started wrestling at six years old, wrestled through middle school, high school, went to the University of Nebraska, earned my degree there, training twice a day for five years, took the medical red shirt to get better, and then got to this place where I started to continue to sharpen my chops at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. If I made that transition, I would be so regimented in what I had done for such a long period of time. I don't think that any other sport

can compare with that. And I don't really follow a ton, so I don't really know the dynamics of what it's like on a scholastic level in, let's say, jiu-jitsu. But I have to imagine that wrestling has the strongest pedigree and the highest level of preparation for MMA because of its ability to be popular within the contents of an actual school, university, that type of thing. For sure. And wrestlers that dedicate themselves to Jiu Jitsu transition very easily. Wrestlers that

figure out choke holds and arm bars and stuff like that, they already know how to control bodies. And they already know how to drill. And they already have discipline. Like crazy discipline. One of the things that I think separates wrestlers from other sports is mental toughness. Because it is a badge of courage.

There's a thing that wrestlers all have is they embrace the suck they all do they all know how to push they then there's no prima donnas that are successful wrestlers they don't exist i mean you could say that about other sports there's prima donnas in basketball there's guys that you know they'll fake injuries in other sports in soccer they fall down that shit is never gonna happen in wrestling because it's free yeah and it's not sexy you don't make any money exactly so we've done it for nothing for so long that when you get to this level it's just all about pride yeah i mean it's not saying there's no mentally tough people in soccer i'm sure there are of course but but there's no flopping in wrestling there's no one in wrestling that's successful that's not mentally tough. Yeah. It's a universal standard.

And when they transition to MMA, you see it immediately. You see it in the training room. You see it in the way they fight. On the scale. Yeah, on the scale you see it. They know how to cut that weight. I wanted to ask you about that too. When you're cutting weight for something, like a world championships, and you have to

compete two hours later later how do you do that you got to be dialed in for a long period of time so i've dabbled in a numerous and a lot of diets right i see you're on the carnivore diet yeah like how is that going that's great is it good the last time i did i did it last year only meat yeah only meat only meat well i eat eggs and fish like last time i had lobster only animal products so eggs any type of meat yeah any type of meat yeah no that's it no vegetables no some people eat like a little piece of fruit here and there you know if you really feel like you need it that's before a workout but i'm telling you man it's crazy you feel fucking great your energy level with no carbs

is like this it's flat all day it stays the same it's essentially sugar-free yes exactly exactly so that's why energy you don't have those crashes no uh insulin crash no weirdness um bro your belly's gotta be feeling awful no how are you digesting all this stuff i feel like i'd be like bogged down like oh i couldn't train no i'm telling you it's pretty easy it seems like it wouldn't be, but it really is. It's just like, Rafael Dos Anjos, I think, went on this kind of a diet for his last fight, when he fought Paul Felder. And I think that's how he wound up making 155 again.

But some guys have tried it in MMA. I know it's similar to a ketogenic diet. A lot of ketogenic diets, guys are mostly eating meats and fats and getting their fuel from fat or from glucogenesis. Gluconeogenesis, which is like when your body – I think that's how you say it. When your body processes protein and turns that protein into glucose, your body can do that. But the thing about it is like there's no crashing after eating. It's real interesting. And I think that's the – I try to eliminate sugar.

That's number one. I always try to eliminate sugar because I like sweets. I'm a sweets guy. Who doesn't? So I want the pastries. I love bread. So those are the first things I cut out. I cut out all the extras, number one.

So any sort of, let's say, juice, bread, potato chips, cereal. Cereal is like my thing, right? Late at night, 9 o'clock before I go to bed. What is it? Now or when I was growing up? If you want to go off the rails. Now, I just do granola. Really?

I'm a granola guy. Yeah, yeah. When I was a kid, right, it was Fruity Pebbles and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. I'm a Captainola guy yeah yeah when i was a kid right it was fruity pebbles and cinnamon toast crunch i'm a captain crunch you're captain crunch bro i want to see the roof of your mouth if you're a captain crunch guy because listen bro it's like chewing on straight up fiberglass bro like come on man you might as well smash up this mug and throw it in a bowl pour some milk on it so it's uh i know i dabbled in'n Crunch a little bit when I was a kid. All berries.

You ever had an oops all berries? I don't think I did. No. Listen, you ain't lived until you had the oops all berries. So none of the little yellow boys, whatever those are. What was the peanut butter one? There was a peanut butter breakfast cereal. Trying to remember what that was.

I don't know. Fruit Loops was always a good one too. Can't go wrong. Lucky Charms. Yeah one can't go wrong lucky charms yeah can't go if i'm gonna go completely off the rails like i so i had some friends of ours who live actually in texas and dallas the ribman family they sent me after i made the world team last year a huge box of all the little tiny cereals and they had apple jacks fruit loops frosted flakes you know coco pops coco everything like literally everything that you ate as a kid and so we Apple jacks, fruit loops, frosted flakes, fruity pebbles, everything. Literally everything that you ate as a kid.

And so we only do our shopping at Whole Foods now. So we have a pretty much organic, all-natural diet. So that's why I'm kind of into the Kashi. As far as we go now, it's like Honey Nut Cheerios. That's a big splurge. That's going crazy. That's a splurge, right? They're like, damn, you're getting wild tonight.

JV's going with the honey nut Cheerios. Going off the rails. So I try to cut out the bad stuff first, and then it really is about portion sizing. So I dabble in intermittent fasting. I cut down the portion sizes of my meals, and I go sugar-free. So typically I wake up in the morning,

let's say 7 a.m. I have a smoothie. In my smoothie, I put plant protein, collagen protein. I'll do maybe like some chia seeds, almond milk, spinach, and peanut butter. And that'll be my breakfast. And this is pre-training? That's pre-training. So you do this at seven and what time's your first training session? And my first training session is at 8.30. And how many training sessions do you generally have in a day two two just two and how do you break them up would you do you do you yeah

choose how you train and what you do it depends now yes a little bit more so than i had in the past so at this age i'm 32 years old i've been in it for a while i have a connection with my coaches that is more of a partnership um as opposed to like a coach-athlete relationship. So I'm like, okay, here's what I need. Here's what I want to work on. And then they give me kind of the autonomy to figure out what my schedule is going to look like. Because I've got three kids at home, a wife, so my schedule is a little more busy than the average college guy that we're training with. So I still train at the University of Nebraska. We have an RTC there, which is a regional training center, in conjunction with the college with. So I still train at the University of Nebraska. We have an RTC there, which is a regional training center,

in conjunction with the college program. So I'm wrestling with those guys often in their room out in Lincoln. But, yeah, so I have my smoothie at usually like 7.30. I'm in the wrestling room by 8.30 to train. We're usually on the mat in the morning. So we'll get like a light drill in, just get our bodies moving, get feeling good, or we'll lift in the morning. So we'll get like a light drill in, just get our bodies moving and get feeling good or we'll lift in the morning. So I typically lift three times a week. Then in the afternoon, I'll have, depending upon how close I am to my weight cut itself.

Like if I'm trying to stay light and I'm getting close like week of, I'll skip lunch period. I won't even have lunch. Or I'll do like a handful of cashews or something relatively small. I won't even have lunch or I'll do like a handful of cashews or something relatively small. And then I'll go back to practice at two and we'll do either live wrestling or we'll do some sort of conditioning. Is that hard to do with just like a handful of cashews? It sucks, bro. But you have to shrink your body a little bit because if you want to compete to our like unlike boxing MMA where you have an entire day to rehydrate, replenish your body, and get ready for competition, two hours is a different beast, bro. If you step on the scale and you just sat in the sauna for an hour and you've been in a hot tub with a sauna suit and a beanie, you're finished.

You're finished. You can't recover. It's impossible. Because if you think about that two hours, that two hours encompasses multiple things. One, it's you have to eat. And two, you've got to get warmed up. And then three, you've got to get your mind right and prepare to compete. So you never know. You could be an hour in or you could be the first match on mat A.

It really just depends on how the brackets shake out. So you're shrinking your body no matter what? No matter what. You have to. Or at least that's what i feel so the most i ever want to lose on in the day the 24 hours before competition is six pounds six seven pounds so that's doable for you that's doable that's manageable and then so when you get off the scale what's the first thing you take in your body liquids liquids liquids yeah do you do with electrolytes yeah electrolytes um aminos liquid aminos i'll do uh and is there like a protocol do you do it slowly like how do you um how do you get rehydrated i don't i don't do it slowly i mean i don't slam it but i think

i do it with moderation because my weight cut is not really hard because i don't do you know 15 20 pounds right so it's not like my body is so shocked that any input nutritionally is going to throw me off. So it's relatively mild because I still want to be able to recover. You've got your electrolytes and your fluids and then fruits. So like I try to slam, then I try to re-energize with all the carbs and the sugars that I've kind of pulled back from. Because you get time. The tournament is going to last throughout an entire day. So let's say you wrestle two hours later, but then your next match isn't going to be for another hour, hour and a half.

And then the same thing for your next match. And then the semifinals. So between each match, you're going to have about an hour. So you know that the longer the day goes, the more you win, the more recovery time you get. So you know that the longer the day goes, the more you win, the more recovery time you get. So where you might start the day at, I wrestle, or sorry, I weigh in at 163. And then by the time I compete my first match, let's say I'm 169-ish, 170. Drank maybe a gallon of water, had a smoothie, ate some fruit, maybe some honey and some peanut butter.

And then I'm wrestling about six, seven pounds over. And so then as the day progresses, you're eating a little bit between each match. But then you also have to remember you've got to make scratch weight again for day two. Oh, my God. Day two. So you've got to be back down to 163.0 for day two of the finals. Oh, no. But that's a different beast because then the finals are in the evening. So if you can just make it down, weigh in at 8.30, you don't have to wrestle until 6 p.m.

But that's got to beat you up to do that two days in a row. So when you step off the mat after the semifinals, you wrestled four matches that day. And then you go step on the scale. So like, for example, this year, World Championships, made weight Saturday morning, wrestled four matches. After the semifinals, you're like,'re like okay i gotta make weight tomorrow since i'm a medalist you go step on the scale i'm seven pounds over so now i gotta get ready for tomorrow i can't eat dinner after wrestling four matches i've gotta go straight to the gym get on the bike get in the sauna get on the treadmill get the seven pounds off and then go to sleep hungry

and then weigh in again the next morning. Oh, no. It's rough. I think – I hope wrestling will change it. So if you do that, say, and then you don't have to wrestle until the evening. You weigh in in the morning. You don't have to wrestle until the evening. Yeah.

Then what do you do? Do you immediately start eating? It's the same thing? Yeah, yeah. Fluids first? Yeah, you do some fluids first. You do a relatively similar protocol to the day before, but then you start to – you train at some point during the day. Like if I have a match at night, I always like to get my body moving at some point during the day.

So maybe I'll have breakfast, and then around noon, 1 o'clock, I'll come and get a light drill in. Just get my body moving, taking a couple shots, maybe do a couple sprints, ride the bike for a little bit, just to make sure that I'm on point when it is go time that i'm not just sitting around all day accumulating all this weight now all of a sudden i'm 10 12 pounds heavier than i was eight hours ago and i gotta be ready to go out and compete so i can't believe you have there's a balance there's a balance there i don't know how the guys do it in mma bro like you're 15 20 pounds heavier than you were the day before yeah how can you even be ideal it's not ideal in terms of your movement like it's not i

feel like i'd be weighed down well i mean i feel like there's guys that are getting away from that now and a lot of guys are trying to just do what you were just saying get through about six pounds and cut that and then it's the day before and they perform better that way yeah but the real concern is against elite grapplers like someone who's really bigger than you and stronger than you and to take you down but i'm just thinking i can't believe that you have to wrestle all those matches in a day and then train afterwards to cut weight that night you gotta cut again and then don't eat so if you yes listen if the ufc has a tournament and rightregor's wrestling Cerrone on Saturday night or fighting Cerrone Saturday night, then he's got to fight Gaethje Sunday.

He's going to make weight on Saturday morning before the fight, and he's going to make weight again on Sunday before the fight because you've got to rehydrate. You're not thinking about weigh-ins tomorrow. You're thinking about the day. Why do they make him weigh in twice? Because they want to stop guys from cutting too much weight like you've seen it guys almost died yeah trying to get down to weight like crazy stuff you had day before weigh-ins people are like i can cut anything because i can be ready in 24 hours right so you got guys literally getting carried to the scale oh i've seen it they can't even. They're discombobulated. They're all over the place.

Their coaches carry them, sit them on the scale, make weight, and then all of a sudden they just lay them out. They're pouring fluids into their mouth, chewing their food for them. It's nuts. It's nuts. They're on death's door. I think that's what they're trying to avoid. They don't want to be liable for someone killing themselves while trying to make weight for an event. Well, there's an MMA organization called 1FC in Asia they're trying they're trying to avoid that and

they're doing hydration tests I'm not exactly sure how they do it I don't like that you don't like that I don't how come because there is a certain level of accountability that you have to provide for your athletes but some weight classes are impossible like there are only six weight classes in what I do in wrestling. So the next weight class above me is 189. I'm at 163. So that's a 26 pound jump. The weight class below me is 143.

That's a 20 pound, 20 pound drop. So I'm a tweener. I can't go up. I'm too small. I can't go down. I'm too big. Right.

So the only weight class I can make is 163. So now, not only are you trying to beat the scale and beat your opponent, but now you're also trying to beat the hydration test. It's just another way for people to cheat and then, you know, potentially suspensions. Well, what they're doing, well, fighting has a couple more weight classes, but it's still pretty limited.

But what they're doing is they're just telling guys, like, if you fight at 170 and you're cutting 10, 15 pounds, just go up to 185. Yeah, yeah. And they're making sure that these guys fight and compete healthy. So they're trying to eliminate weight cutting. Is that possible, though? It's hard. If you tell someone, hey, listen, I know this is a struggle for you, Joe.

I know you really want to fight at 170. Your BMI says that you can, but you cannot get hydrated and fight at 170. You've got to go up to 185 and you weigh 185 and you're like i can't compete here but the other guys would be 185 as well they'll be doing the same thing as well the whole idea is to eliminate weight cutting across the board but some guys have better teams some guys have science behind them like that's true you look at connor like now that connor's made this insane amount of money he's got an entire team behind what he does yeah and so most guys that are trying to compete with him don't have those type of

resources so or he is has science and they're going to make sure he's on point you're just got your water bottle you're just drinking as much as possible and trying to manage it but if you're not cutting weight that would kind of eliminate the significance of having this big team behind you in terms of like the science of weight cutting and preparing getting yourself ready if no one's cutting weight then you're just dealing with skill that's the idea yeah but that would be like the whole steroids argument if everyone's on steroids then no one's on steroids. Right? So it's like, is that possible? It's the opposite of that argument. That would be the argument for weight cutting, saying, look, everyone's on steroids, so just

take steroids. Everyone cuts weight, so just cut weight. Yeah, but they're still trying to- But if you can't cut weight, that's like saying you can't do steroids. Yeah, yeah, I got you. So it's like the opposite of that argument. But I'm curious as to how you would prevent everyone from doing that. Hydration tests.

I know, but there's certain ways. Everyone's not going to cheat. You would get a guy. You would measure his body mass, measure his body fat composition, do a hydration test on him, and say, look, at 170, you're sitting here, you have 10% body fat. Yeah. And then just have your body weight and your mass tracked. So like you, you're capable of competing at 170 pounds. And this is how we know you really can't make 155. And that's the weight classes in MMA, 155 to 170. I think the tough thing for us is we have eating disorders,

The tough thing for us is we have eating disorders. Like, combat athletes have eating disorders, bro. And it's, you know, for us, it's we have an unhealthy relationship with food where we kill ourselves to get down to weight so we can compete at a high level. And then we trash our bodies with all the things that we've been missing out on for such a long period of time. So if you look at the average fighter, where they are in the off season is much higher than where they typically are when they're training. You look at a guy with his shirt off when he's getting prepared for a fight, you're like, damn, that dude looks good.

You look at him on a beach with his family in the summertime, you're like, damn, that dude looks fat. And so we have to have a better relationship with food where it's more of a lifestyle because at this point this is why you see most guys after their careers are done they've gained an excessive amount of weight they look unhealthy yeah you're like bro what did you do to yourself it's true it's a good point i even i feel it personally there are days where i'm like i'm not even hungry but i haven't eaten what i wanted in two months i'm having this french toast you know what i mean and so it's it's a very very different aspect of life that we have never really tapped

into because we've been able to make it but just because you're making it doesn't mean it's healthy so you know it's almost like one of those things that until we start to register it and track it over a long period of time we'll never really know the effects mentally psychologically and physically well i think for mma the one of the solutions is more weight classes because i don't think there's nearly enough weight classes i think the jumps like 85 to 205 that's 20 pounds that's a giant and then 205 to 265 is heavyweight that's too big that's a giant jump that's a big jump i think they should have weight classes basically every 10 pounds. I think that'd be good. That might get me interested. Would it really?

I wrestle at 163. Right. I'm literally smack dab in between two weight classes. Yeah. Between 55 and 70, then you have me. So I feel like I'm too big for 55. So you're still considering this? My wife's watching, so I'll tell you later.

When they cut the cameras off so i'll tell you later when they cut the cameras off i'll tell you how much training have you done like with striking never never never never even been in a fight but never hit pads or anything nothing whoa nothing wow that's but i think i just i'm just confident well you should be one of the best wrestlers ever. I'm absurdly confident. So you're a fucking Olympic gold medalist. You have to be confident. But striking is a different animal. I just want to roll with a couple of guys.

Well, that would be easy to set up. Yeah, I want to roll with Conor. He's probably my dream guy that just, like, get my hands on and just feel a little bit. I think it would be fun. GSP. that just like get my hands on and just feel a little bit i think it would be fun um gsp what was it like doing that thing with askren that you guys uh yeah it was interesting wrestling match it was interesting i i i respect ben a ton he's uh i do too try this you ever have a kill no it's good cbd my own drink oh i can't my face can't bad for you Can't? Bad for you? Nah. No, I'm, I'm USADA. This is CBD.

It doesn't have any THC in it. I'm good. I understand. You know, um, but thank you. I appreciate it. Hey,

make sure you guys are drinking Kill Cliff. Dude, drink whatever you want. I don't give a fuck. I just want you to try it. No, you're good, bro. Pineapple and jalapeno.

This looks good. Kill Cliff, you're with Kill Cliff? Mm-hmm. I had a, it's crazy. I had, they sent me like a package of their stuff years ago.

Were you in their inception? Or did you just get recently on board? Within the last year or so. That's dope, bro. Congratulations. Yeah, we started, I came up with this idea for a pineapple jalapeno drink. They're growing. It's great.

It's all sugar free. They were a relatively small company. It's got 25 milligrams of CBD in it. Are they still in like the CrossFit space? Yeah, they do a lot of different stuff like that. That's awesome, bro. So at Wrestling Askren, it was when I got, I was in college in 2008. He was on the Olympic team going to Beijing.

I was on the Junior World team. I was 20 years old at the time. He was on the Olympian. So I'm like years old at the time he was on the olympian so i'm like damn like that's ben askren like yo look who it is and so super cool for me to kind of have that experience i remember he took me for a ride to walmart in his prius and he let me sit shotgun and so like from that day on i like idolized him and then you know you get to this point where idols become rivals and i'm like well this guy is doing extremely well in the mma world he's a former wrestler but he still has his hand in wrestling and he's still a competitor so you know for him he's like why not i'm gonna do my best to elevate wrestling's

profile but i knew i could beat him so you know it wasn't really like a risky matchup for me um but it was a lot of fun bro we drew a ton of fans we sold out the hulu theater and time square this place was rocking bro like crazy arena um and it was it was a ton of fun it was a ton of fun it's interesting that like for someone to compete in mma you have to do so many different things you have to strike you have to jiu-jitsu you have to work on all these different aspects that you you know you're wrestling you're just wrestling that's what you do you're an expert at it yeah with ben he was really elite at it but at a certain period oh shit now there goes ben he's got a fucked up hip too and i'm sure he still had he was all smiles though listen he was like he loved it there was one point later in the match where i took him down and he was like bro i thought you said you were gonna let me score or like actually give me

a chance i was like no i'm not the i'm not the guy listen if you want to build your confidence or if you want to like get prepared for an event by you know letting someone throw you a bone i'm not that guy uh but it was fun you know what i gotta i love ben for allowing me to to compete in this match you know what's crazy is this was my most viewed match in my entire career wow wrestling ben asker who hadn't wrestled competitively in almost a decade it's pretty wild wild he's an interesting guy in mma too because he it's a bummer that he made it to the ufc when he did because he had really taken a long time off the sport and decided to come back and fight in the ufc and i just don't think he was the same ben askrick when ben askren that was the bellator champion or when he went over to 1FC. Yeah. He was manhandling motherfuckers.

And the best part about it is you got to see a guy who is elite at wrestling and really not elite at anything else. Just dominating with pure wrestling. He's a great wrestler. He's a great wrestler. Great wrestler. And he's one of those guys, if he gets attached to you, he's dangerous. Yeah. Right?

If you get your head underneath of him front headlock position you forget about it he's ridiculously strong despite deceptively strong right yeah shaped like a pear rustle like a bear so he's uh he's uh man he's got the ultimate dad bob but i tell you what you don't want to let that dude in on your leg for years but when he was undefeated before he went to fight in the UFC, for years, he would get a hold of guys. You could see this surprised look on their face. They were confused. When he fought Korshkov and when he fought Douglas Lima, these fucking murderers over in Bellator.

Those guys were killing people, but he just got a hold of them. Like, not today. Boom, on your back. Take these noogies. were killing people but he just got a hold of them like not today on your back yeah take these nuggies yeah it was it was wild because and it maybe it worked out perfectly for him because he got to establish himself here in these lesser leagues excuse me and then made the transition at a good time where you know he was knocking on uh dana white's door for so long that it almost became comical it's like you got to let this guy in here.

True. I just wish that we could have seen him when he was in his athletic prime compete against the guys that he competed against. Guys like Robbie Lawler, guys like Masvidal. He was a guy that there was, he had dwelled here for so long that when he finally got to UFC,

they gave him such elite a competition that he never really had a chance to even get his feet wet in the UFC. He was like, all right, Lawler. Well, he won that fight. Here you go. But the Masvidal fight was crazy. Yeah, but Lawler fight was crazy too, bro. That first 45 seconds, it was not looking good for him.

I know. He got hit with some big shots. It was a crazy fight. But it was, you know, Ben has made a lot of money, and he's done very well for himself, and he's still well-respected in both spaces. So, I mean, I really guess that's all you can ask for from his perspective. He's done extremely well.

He has multiple wrestling clubs back up in Wisconsin. He works for Flow Wrestling down here in Austin, who he dabbles in commentary and is an analyst for our sport. He's well-respected in the MMA community. He's been a champion in 1FC and Bellator and fought in the UFC. He's done well. And he's also a fun guy. He that loss with against masvidal better than anybody like immediately gets on twitter well that sucked bro i was scared it was just scared we were at buffalo wild wings watching that fight yeah um and we were sitting down like all right let's go let's go ben because it was only a couple weeks after i had wrestled him. So I wanted to see him win.

Of course. I just wanted to see him win because I was affiliated with him. So I always want to see the wrestlers win. It's kind of crazy that he took a wrestling match a couple of weeks before a big MMA fight like that. I threw him off the stage. That was a bad idea. That was a bad idea. I'm an idiot, bro.

I almost cost this man a lot of money just because you know i was being stupid yeah so it was uh yeah we're good well it worked out okay yeah yeah yeah but that the shot that he landed that uh masvidal landed on him was horrific and that's why i still wrestle yeah well if you've done no striking at all i think you you've made a good choice yeah bro it's different and i think you know it's funny i got i took a shot the other day in practice right into someone's knee bam and i was like maybe that's what a punch feels like and i'm like if i can take that shot from a knee to the face shooting at full speed i can take a punch i can take a punch i don't know maybe it's maybe it's just a little ego right is there like a little ego i'm like i want to see what i'm

made of i've never fought i know i'm tough i'm gritty i'm mentally tough i can do this um but again like i don't feel like i have anything to prove i've got to kind of step back into like this spiritual sense of contentment like i I've done plenty. God has me where he wants me. And I've done so much to elevate the profile of the sport of wrestling. I don't have to make this transition. Like, yes, it would be great to be glamorous. I'd have celebrities ringside. I'd get a big purse and all this cool stuff.

I have you calling my fight. But would it be true to what I really believe in, who I really want to be and desire for myself? Or would it just be a cash grab and, you know, this futile pursuit of something that is not meant for me, bro? Like if you go into anything without a spirit of contentment and true purpose, it's always going to be a futile pursuit. So if like, for me, I'm like, is it really worth it? I really want to be in hereal pursuit or a pursuit so if like for me i'm like is it really worth it i really want to be in here when they lock that gate behind me am i gonna be like

this is what i wanted or am i like what am i doing here right you know i mean like you got raging fans at the bar like yeah kill him kick his ass bro um so it's it's just a different vibe um i'm thankful for where i'm at. It's a good place. Well, that's beautiful. That's perfect, man. You don't need to make any other decisions then. Listen, and you also have a very unique opportunity to bring a lot of attention to wrestling. Yeah, bro.

Actual, real, elite wrestling, post-college, post-Olympics, and to let people know there's still people competing. There's viable options to compete. No one knows. No one knows what happens in wrestling. They're like, well, what are you doing between the Olympics? I'm like, well, there's still wrestling.. There's viable options to compete. No one knows. No one knows what happens in wrestling. They're like, well, what are you doing between the Olympics? I'm like, well, there's still wrestling. There's world championships. Everyone's like, do you still wrestle?

I'm like, bro, I have one of the biggest matches of the year coming up. I just wrestled in one of the biggest matches of the year. You're like, yes, I still compete, but people don't really follow. Wrestlers follow. Yeah, that's it. Just wrestlers. We're such a niche sport where the UFC's brand has exploded because you guys were in this kind of limbo era for a period of time.

And now you guys are, you know, one of the biggest sports in the world. And so it's been cool to kind of see the transition. And we've tried to take cues from you guys from, you know, broadcasting weigh-ins to making, you know these match-ups in these cards one of the hardest things about wrestling is their tournaments and so within a tournament it can be hard to market the best match-ups because there's upsets and a lot of things happen injuries injuries things just might not happen right so if you got all the best 170 pounders in the entire world you know how do you know that GSP and Kamaru Usman are gonna meet up?

Because they're one and two seed. You don't, you never know. Anything could happen. Right. And so I think that you guys have done a really good job with marketing the sport. You've brought in brand sponsors and it has gone from this, you know,

redheaded stepchild to boxing where it's brutal and barbarian to this sport that it's seen as more of an art form and there are a lot of guys that are responsible for that and it's been it's been cool to see we're trying we're trying to replicate it but it's it's much harder because well it's one of those things where i think for wrestlers it's fantastic to be able to watch elite wrestling they love it it's very enticing but to people that have never wrestled before It's kind of confusing what's happening and that's what I was saying about Jiu-jitsu that's one of the reasons why I combat jiu-jitsu is

It's literally the most popular thing that Eddie's come up with because he's come up with these EBI Tournaments or a sort of a different jiu-jitsu format, but combat jiu-jitsu People understand people getting hit and that's the thing about the ufc when people people understand the striking it's simple a guy punches a guy you get it the guy kicks the guy you get it but when fights go to the ground and people start going for submissions to people that have never grappled they have no idea what's happening back to their feet yeah they want that that's what they want they don't understand it so it's just a scramble tangle of limbs they don't really understand what's happening we live in like a bloodthirsty society so people want to see that even if you watch a boxing fight like if you if you watch let's say bud crawford versus earl spence you're like these dudes are the very best in the entire

world at their craft if there's not a knockout and there's a draw unanimous decision after 12 rounds you're gonna be like that sucked i want to see someone get knocked out but the chances are when you have two high level guys like that like they're not gonna knock each other out they're just gonna be they fill each other out right throw a couple jabs maybe hit each other with a couple power punches but they're just too tough and too precise with their movements that they'll never knock each other out so i think in wrestling it's the same thing like you have to be a wrestler to truly appreciate the craft like you know what it takes to be the best but you can't really respect it unless you're within it plus it's not just a recreational sport wrestling is it's taboo right it's kind of weird a little bit like you wear singlets and like you just roll around with you like jiu-jitsu i feel

like you can go to a gym as a 40 year old man that hasn't competed in 20 years put on your gi and roll around with your co-worker and it can be completely normal but you wouldn't do that you wouldn't wrestle your co-worker like you'd be like bro like get off me what are you doing and so it's uh it's just it's it's different i feel like wrestling is one of the few sports that you can't just do um recreational yeah you can't just go to the you have to yeah you have to have gone through high school or college yeah you like you you want to watch it but you don't really want to be in it so yeah like for mma fighters that have never competed in wrestling at all and they want to learn how to wrestle, it's uncomfortable for them.

That's what I want to do. I want to have, when I finish up my career, I'm going to make a high-performance training center. And I'm going to invite all the best UFC fighters, all fighters, but I like the UFC's brand, to come train with me and help them sharpen up their skills and preparation for their big fights. Where would you do that? That's a good question. I'm from Jersey. I'm actually moving to Philadelphia next year with my family. But I want to be somewhere where the sun shines all year round.

I want to be somewhere warm where there's no salt on my car. I hear you. I can just sit outside and grill and hang out with the fam. So I don't know. That's a good question. It's got to be a desirable destination if you're going to get the best guys in the world to come. But I've got some invitations from some UFC fighters to come and train with him.

I've got some invitations from jiu-jitsu guys to come train with him from, you know, Rory McDonald to, you know, Tyron Woodley. I've spent some time with GSP, Vitor Belfort. I've gotten invitations from like Gordon Ryan and Johnny Torres and all these guys. Oh, so jujitsu guys as well. Yeah, some jujitsu guys as well.

And I'm just always wrestling. Wrestling takes up so much of my time and I've got little ones at home, so it's really hard to do. But when I transition out of the sport, which I'm kind of in that phase now, I've got one more Olympic cycle in me. And then moving on to,

I really like to help fighters because I feel like although I don't strike and I don't really, I'm not familiar with my striking. It's something I'll pick up later just so I can know kind of how to incorporate your striking into your wrestling offense and defense. But I think I can be a really good asset for a lot of fighters is to try to help them make that transition. Oh, for sure. I mean, they would jump at the chance. Yeah. It'd be'd be fun bro it'd be fun um plus it's my wheelhouse right so it's

like it'll be cool to kind of rough them up a little bit there so 2021 is japan that's that's your next your next uh cycle and so that is uh august is that what august yes i still got to make the team i still got to make the team i still got to make the team so basically our olympic trials are in april i was a world medalist in 2019 they'll have a tournament for like 10 competitors they'll wrestle whoever wins out of those 10 will wrestle me in the finals best two out of three uh so i've got to wrestle one guy beat him best two out of three to make the olympic team at 163 pounds so it's a it's a big task but it's a big task it's fun it's fun i'm excited 2021 in japan is going

to be very fascinating it's going to be interesting to see if they have any kind of a they used they had a pretty good record with covid for a while but lately they've had a big surge it's wild bro like i think i don't know if there's going to be fans and if there aren't fans then it kind of eliminates what the games are all about like yeah there's a certain spirit in the village and on the buses and the railways and the train stations people bustling in and out of the olympic stadium that just makes it special you know you've got your flag draped over your shoulders and your country scarf it's it's a pretty cool experience when you're at the Olympic Games. That's what I love about it, man.

Where else can so many countries come together despite the political turmoil and whatever may be happening within your own country? When you get together at the Olympic Games, it transcends everything. Politics, race, gender, religion. It's nothing like it in the world man it's it's epic there was a picture i had back in 2012 where i in the gold medal match i beat a guy named sadiqa darzi from the islamic republic of iran and i've got my arm around him on the top of the podium and on the back of our warm-ups said united states of america and you know islamic republic of iran and so like we're like arm in arm.

And it was just like a super special photo because our governments hate each other. And I've been to Iran on multiple occasions. And they love us. Like literally rock star status when we're in Iran. They're following us at the airport. They're waiting for us outside of the arena. They're trying to give you kisses, like hugs. Here's the picture.

Epic. Epic photo, bro, because what you see that's personified in the media and what you experience when your boots are on the ground in a particular country like Iran is much different than the perception. And so the Iranian people, man, they're the best wrestling fans in the world. Outside of Iran, right? I'm partial because I'm an American, but best wrestling fans in the wild side of our own right i'm partial because i'm i'm an american but best wrestling fans in the world super knowledgeable love the sport they want the heroes to win in america we build up our heroes

just so we can see if they can get knocked off in iran they always want the hero to win everybody so it's this they wait for us at the airport joe so like when we land on the tarmac we walk out to the airport they've got media there they've got wrestling fans they're giving us flowers and they are coming to our hotel room we've got armed guards on the floor of our hotel just to make sure nobody gets to our floor because they are waiting for us in the lobby just to take photos like that's crazy it's absolute insanity are they the most rabid fans in terms of like the most there's no question about it they've got chant leaders that come with bells and whistles and drums and i do do do do do do do do do do do do like they got their wisp bro like i'm when i

and you know what's even crazier joe is is because of their strict Islamic religion, they don't allow women into the arenas. Whoa. So if you look in this picture, this is a sold-out stadium, 8,500 men, men and boys only. No women allowed in the arena at all. Wow. And so it's pretty insane as to how much love and admiration they have for the sport and particularly americans because i've beaten iranians i've never lost an iranian and wrestled a dozen of them and they still love me it's wild but it's cool it's cool that has got to be a trip to i mean one of the things about

your career that's probably one of the most uh educational parts of it is this travel aspect yeah i mean how many different countries have you been to i've been to i believe last time i came i was 22 wow 22 um that's wild you've wrestled at 22 different 22 different countries and so i had never i didn't get my passport until i was 20 so crazy you have kids yeah how. How many? Three. Three? Very nice. How old? 24, 12, and 10. 20? How old are you?

53. You got a 20? Get the hell out of here. I never would expect that. You look young. Thank you very much. You look young. You look good, man.

Thank you. Appreciate it. So I've got three little ones. My oldest is a little boy named Beacon. He's six. My middle child, Aura, is a girl. And then our baby rise she just turned one yesterday actually congratulations thanks man and so all three of them had a passport before their first birthday so it's wild like you are who you are based on who your parents are

yeah what they do um or a lot of it is is is nature and so i didn't get my passport until i was 20 years old left the country for the first time went to istanbul turkey my kids have all had passports before their first birthdays my son we counted before he was one he was on 42 flights 42 flights before his first birthday that's crazy traveled the world they've been to rio they've been to you know canada they've been to the world championships to the olympic games they've been to Canada. They've been to the World Championships, to the Olympic Games. They've been to Pan Am Games, like everything all over the world. So it's wild to me to kind of experience that because I'm like, man, I never had this. Like I grew up in a small town in South Jersey.

And like so whenever people are like, man, like how do you maintain this certain level of sustainability and excellence over a long time? I was like, because I never expected it. So when I arrived here, I wanted to cling to it to see how long I could maintain it. Because I never grew up desiring to be an Olympian. I hear a lot of Olympians like, man, I watched the summer games in Atlanta in 1996 on my grandma's couch. And I knew from that day forward that I wanted to win an Olympic gold medal. And I'm like, bro, that wasn't my story. I didn't know I could make the Olympic team until I was damn near on the team. And I was like, man, I'm pretty good. Like I'm going to, I'm going to wrestle with the

Olympic trials. Like I'm going to see if I can do this. And so my kids have kind of had the direct benefit of all of the work that I've put in through this sport. And so it's been a tremendous blessing for me to kind of just see it rub off on them. My oldest beacon, my middle aura, they just started wrestling three weeks ago. And so I'm trying not to be the crazy dad, the crazy wrestling dad. It's gotta be hard.

I'm sending them to their training facility and they've got great coaches. But when they're on the mat, like, you know, there's 14 other kids there. So coaches are focused on everyone in the room right they can't show special attention to my kids just because i am who i am and so i'm trying not to be the dad i won't i want to get on the mat i'm like bro b you're not doing that right dude like your head needs to go here your hands need to be locked here but then i need to like

kind of back off back off like you know what if he's gonna love it he's gotta love it on his own yeah that's a tricky balancing act, right? You don't want to push him too hard because then you might push him away from the sport or make them resent it because when you grow up and your dad is Jordan Pearls and you're wrestling. There's a lot of pressure. Yes. I mean, I remember when Marvis Frazier fought Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier was in the corner

and I'm like, imagine growing up with Joe Frazier as your dad and you got to become a boxer too. And you got to become a boxer, too. And you've got to fight Mike Tyson. You've got to fight Mike Tyson when he was on his way to the title. It was one of the most— He didn't want that fight. It was a terrible fight. Did you ever see that fight?

I did. It was one of the most frightening Mike Tyson performances of all time, and that's saying a lot. You know what? I think there's two ways i look at it there's a a guy that i know um his name is ilias delac diakomahalas and he told me he was like his sons are great wrestlers wrestle at cornell and he's like my boys wanted to wrestle i wrestled and i wanted to teach them what i knew best it's like imagine you being the best in the world at something and you letting your kids escape your home at 18 without you ever telling them or teaching them

about what you were the best in the world at. That would be a travesty. You let your kids escape your home without teaching them something that you were the absolute best in the world at. So you don't have to push them or pressure them to do something. You allow the love to grow on their own.

But if there's something that you are particularly great at, you have to give that knowledge and that information to the world. And so you become a man of the people, a man of your family. You're the best in the world at the sport of wrestling. Give that to them. Then let the decision be their own to decide if they want to take it further and you know i don't know wrestle the olympics it's so hard man like everyone's like oh your son next olympic champ i'm like yo bro chill because then i feel the pressure right so i'm like not only is my boy everywhere he goes is like damn you're wrestling now you better be good and he's feeling

the pressure and then i'm feeling pressure it, oh, your son's wrestling now? Damn, I can't wait to see how great he's going to be. Because now I'm like, well, there's an expectation. Like, let's go. Six years old, push-ups. No dinner until you do five rope climbs. You know what I mean? So it's like you have to always manage expectations, particularly with kids, because you want them to be so much.

But also you have to prepare for normalcy. The hardest thing, you have resources, Joe. Like you've done so much. You've been successful at your craft. You've got so much exposure, so many more resources than I imagine you had growing up. How do you not allow that to trickle down to your kids to give them more opportunity,

but also accompany that with expectations? Like, look what I've become with nothing. So now look what you have the access to. Sky's the limit. Like, how do you balance that? It's very tricky. And it's also tricky because the most interesting people that I know have come from nothing.

They've all come from struggle because I think struggle builds character. Having to overcome adversity is one of the cornerstones of becoming like an actualized person like you have to get through something to realize what you're capable of and it gives you confidence to be able to get through other things and when your life is kind of easy but you don't want your kids to go through hardship either right so it's like this weird balancing act like but you can't if you facilitate it. You got to have, yeah.

You got to give them structure. But how do you do that? It's hard. Because you want it easy too. It's like, are you going to, I'm thinking about this from my perspective as a kid. The hardest moments that I had were associated with sport. It was very rare that I had a difficult time in my life from 1 to 18. That wasn't because I had to train hard or had to wrestle hard, or I cried because I got beat or choked out or slammed on my head.

It wasn't, it wasn't hard, right? I didn't grow up on a farm. I grew up in a middle-class family in South Jersey in a suburban town. So my lifestyle was different. And my parents both raised in the city. My dad was from Philly. My mom was from Camden. So they wanted me to see a different side of what they didn't experience as a kid. So they wanted to kind of shelter me from that. They've done a tremendous job. I mean, I've achieved a level of success that they dreamed of for me. But also, you know, there was a certain amount of grit that I had to develop just because of the contents of where we were. And, like, it was suburban, but it was still kind of edgy.

But now I want to, I kind of want to chill a little bit too right i'm like right i've done well like i want to send my kids to the best school i think though you will lead by example because one of the things that your kids will undeniably understand is how hard you work to get to where you are yeah and that rubs off on your children there's one thing where you teach them things. You show them and you tell them and you give them advice and talk to them. But another thing is they learn just from seeing what you do. When you have a dad who does what you do, which to be an elite wrestler, maybe people don't understand this. It is one of the most physically demanding pursuits in the world, period. It's a fact yeah in in terms of athletics there's very few things that are as difficult and as grueling as wrestling and to be elite at it to i mean it's not like it's a an insurmountable

sport it's not like something that takes a ton of equipment it's not like something that it's not like formula one race car driving you need a million dollars to get a car no it's it's something that just requires a mindset and also what you were saying before there's no real money in it right so it's not like there's it's something like basketball where there's this gigantic pot of gold waiting at the end of the rainbow no it's it's just toughness and grit and your kids are going to understand that there's no there's no way they're not going to. They will understand that there's a level of discipline and focus that you have that maybe they're going to see their friends' parents don't have. So let me ask you this then.

It's easy for them to see what I do because it's tangible, right? It's visible. You see dad lift weights, wrestle, cut weight. because it's tangible, right? It's visible. You see dad lift weights, wrestle, cut weight. How in a guy like your position, someone extremely successful,

but there's no physical grueling activity that's associated with it. So they may not be able to visibly see what it is that you are thinking about, aspiring to be what you're doing, right? They're long hours away from home, maybe long hours at night and in the morning, but how do they see what you do and how are they able to associate that

with how they need to live moving forward? What are the ways that you've been able to kind of teach your kids? Well, they do see me work out, which helps too. Yeah, good. Because I don't have to, right? It's not like I'm doing it for a job, but I do it just...

You eat an only steak. They're like, let's go. This is the life I want, Dad. I want steak and lobster every night, carnivore diet. I think I say this and I live this, that I think you need to struggle physically in life because it makes life easier. Because I think there's a lot of struggles that people go through psychologically, mentally, with work, with just relationships, with civilization. I think when you struggle physically, I mean like really struggle physically, I think it makes those things easier because you're putting yourself through something you don't really have to do.

It's not part of your job. But if you put yourself through grueling workout routines, I think it makes things easier and my kids see that because we have a gym in the house they see me work out do they work out yeah they work out and one of my daughters is really into gymnastics and the other one is really into basketball but when when they were young they also were into martial arts and uh you know i would take them to uh when they were younger they're so young but i would take them to martial arts gym and i would even demonstrate some things with the teacher and do some stuff. And they got into jiu-jitsu.

They got into a little bit of kickboxing. So they got to see that I'm very, I do a lot of shit. And I've reached a high level of proficiency at those things that I do. And so they get to see that. It's not even a part of my job necessarily, other than calling MMA fights. But they get to see, oh,'s good. It's not even a part of my job necessarily other than like calling MMA fights. But they get to see, oh, well, you could be lazy.

You could just sit back and just count your money and just eat food all day. But I don't. Eat steaks. I get after it. You know what's funny is my kids don't even realize that what I do is what makes a living for us. They're just like, oh, yeah, dad wrestles. Because like for them, they wrestle. Right.

So like what's the difference between what you do and what i do like i go to practice and get coached you go to practice and get coached so where do they think the money's coming from it just exists bro they're just like we just have a roof over our head and a cabinet full of snacks and i'm happy man so you get paid to win tournaments we do yeah so like the bulk here's the bulk of a wrestler's income or olympians income one for us is we built what we call rtcs regional training centers that are in conjunction with collegiate programs we get paid pretty much to train there because they use our name and likeness to kind of elevate their programs to help with recruiting but also we're in the room with their guys daily so we kind of teach the college guys.

We're sharpening them, helping them develop. So that's number one. Number two, sponsors. So primary sponsors. I'm sponsored by ASICS, Ralph Lauren, Bridgestone, Comcast, and Xfinity. So you have corporate sponsors that align with you during Olympic years, non-Olympic years, to provide you with product. They'll pay you to create digital marketing campaigns and really just align with what it is that you're doing.

If your brand, you know, kind of fits their spectrum of what they're trying to create. And then lastly, that is if you win, they have what they call the living the dream fund. So you get money for world championship medals, Olympic medals, going to like all these tournaments. And then what we're doing saturday night so if you go to these cards for like flow wrestling it's pretty much like the ufc like you have deals where it's like okay this guy is this level of opponent it's going to be watched by these many viewers you're going to get this number of subscribers here's what we feel like we can pay you um so yeah i mean there are numerous ways that you can get paid, but it's definitely changed. I was talking to Daniel the other day. He said that when he was with Adidas,

when he was an Olympian back in 04 and 08, he was getting $12,000 a year, $12,000 a year, $1,000 a month he was getting to wrestle. And he was like, I just had to retire from the UFC because my back was just killing me. Had to have back surgery. He was like, I just had to retire from the UFC because my back was just killing me. I had to have back surgery. He was like, you know why my back hurts? From wrestling for 25 years, shooting at a guy's legs and being stuck underneath of him. And I was like, damn. And he's like, man, there's so much money in UFC. He's had two lives, literally two lives, two careers.

And he's become amazing at this and he always had this character and personality but you just were unable to utilize it financially you could monetize that in wrestling it just didn't work so we're in the precipice of doing something extremely cool wrestlers are now actually earning a living by doing this you don't have to transition to mma and that's why i think that a lot of guys have stayed in the wrestling sport like we have some really great athletes myself kyle snyder kyle dake david taylor um jayden cox james green like all these amazing athletes but you know i think we'll be great fighters but wrestling now you can earn a living yeah and it's not dc a lot but he's a daniel's

such an unusual human being because not only does he have two careers like he had the wrestling career than an mma career but he also has a commentator career because he's so fun he's great he's fun man he's fun he's the best he's so fun to do it with like me and him have a best and john annick we have so much fun together yeah when i called him the other day and you know daniel's the man, right? He's done so well in his UFC career. And although he knew me within wrestling, now that he's made this transition, you kind of, you're weary. Like, you don't just cold call people and like have expectations for what it is that they can provide for you.

But I'm like, bro, like, I would like to call you. Like, is this okay? My wife's just like, call him, call him. Like, he'll answer your call. And I'm like, I'm not just calling this man. This man's a big deal. And so she's like, to call you. Like, is this okay? My wife's just like, call him, call him. Like, he'll answer your call. And I'm like, I'm not just calling this man. This man's a big deal. And so she's like, just call him. So I text him and he's like, yeah, just call me tomorrow.

So I call him. And like, I thought it was just gonna be like a quick, really short conversation. And he's like, we're on the phone for like 30, 45 minutes, just kind of shooting the breeze and chopping it up. And I'm just like, damn, like, I felt like a lot of joy after that call because he just has the ability to make you smile and to make everyone that he encounters feel valuable.

Yes. That's something that he really does well. And that's what I want to possess that when you make people that you see feel value, regardless of their status. That's a special trait to possess. And I don't think everyone has that because you're so busy bro like everyone wants a hold of you made an instagram post a few weeks ago it's like once you become successful in anything you become a man of the people the people want so much of you because they're essentially who pays your bills not technically but they watch your show and in a

way elevate your ratings they buy my wrestling shoes and watch my wrestling matches so it's just a different vibe so i always try to feel a certain level of obligation and responsibility to the people while still maintaining a certain level of privacy for myself and my family. But it can be hard. So sometimes you're like, yo, Joe, what's up, bro? Like, let me get a picture. I love you. You're a big fan.

The problem is when I'm with my family. You're like, bro, I like. Or when you're eating. Here, give your kids. Hey, excuse me, kids. Like, I need to take a're a big fan. The problem is when I'm with my family. You're like, bro, I like it. Or when you're eating. Here, give your kids. Hey, excuse me, kids. I need to take a picture with your dad. I've had people hand their phones to my wife. My daughter was sitting on my lap, and we were at a restaurant,

and this guy came over, and he was trying to get a picture. He sat on your other knee. He was on his knees right here while my daughter was on my lap. I'm like, you don't think this is kind of fucked up? You don't think this is the wrong? What was his response? He goes, yeah, it is. I go, this is not the way to do this, man.

We're all sitting here eating. How do you balance that, though? It's hard. It's tricky. Sometimes you have to take a certain level of privacy for yourself. Yeah, for sure. You've got to just say, I cannot. Not right now.

Yeah. I usually say when I'm done eating, when I get up, I'll be happy to take picture with you but if you let everybody interrupt your meal then you can't go out now I can't go out because then you can't sit down and just eat are you do you just go out and about like in the city yeah and like I always really yo Joe yeah and you're like everybody's friendly it's it's mostly just a bunch of people saying hi that's mostly what it is it's mostly like what's up hey what's up i say hi too it's all good it's 99.99999 good and every now and then you run into a drunk you know that's that's sometimes that's a pain in the ass but even that's

what you're even they're usually pretty good's just, sometimes people just don't understand privacy. They don't understand personal space. They just get weird. But it just also, they get weird. Like if someone's a gigantic wrestling fan and they meet you, they're probably bugged out. They don't understand how to behave. They're all nervous and weirded out.

The tangibles of being really good at what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially if you are trying to aspire especially if you're aspiring to be a great wrestler as well, and you have these guys all in your head, and you watch matches on YouTube, and you idolize these certain wrestlers, and then all of a sudden you're in front of one of them, and you didn't expect it. I mean, you might just babble out something stupid.

One day I'm going to pin you, man. Shit, what the fuck did I say? I told Jordan Brown I was going to pin him. I didn I say I told Jordan I just wanted a picture yeah they just sometimes people just get nervous you know they don't know how to behave they don't know what to say and they make you uncomfortable even though they don't want to they invade your space when they just want to show admiration that's a good that's a good perspective you've got to like kind of exhibit a certain amount of grace when dealing with the public and especially in your position um but i imagine that some days it's like it's it's a little tough it's just most of the time it's easy yeah the vast majority of the time but occasionally like someone you'll

have a bite of food in your mouth and someone hey man can i get a picture and you're like come on dude that's a that's a blessing though that you have that perspective because there are a lot of people who don't. And by the time that they realize it, it's too late and they've already burned so many bridges and had so many bad encounters with the people. Yeah. That can happen, too. It's just not good for. It's not good for PR.

Yeah, it's not good for how people look at you. It's not good for you either. It's not good for how you feel about yourself. Like if I have a bad encounter with somebody, I don't feel good about it. It makes me feel bad too. I want all encounters with all humans that I encounter to be fun. I'm a fun person. I'm friendly.

I like to be friendly to everybody. That's what I want. And making people feel good is like a cool experience. It is. Because for them, it means the world. For you, it's just like hey what's up bro like yeah good to meet you man let me take a photo with you like tell your friend i said what's up and they're like oh my gosh you'll never believe what happened to me today and for you

you're like oh yeah i saw a guy at chipotle it was good yeah there's a responsibility and i'm sure you experience that as well right there's a responsibility of being someone that people look up to like you you're you're not just a regular person you're a person that a lot of people are aware of and they're following what your career is they're following what you do they follow you the olympics they follow you at the world championships they pay attention online when they're not watching it they're trying to figure out you know how you're doing what you're doing and they want to emulate you and that's why i'm asking you about your training routines and what you're eating and things like that.

Because I'm sure people are listening like, how often does he train? How does he approach his mornings? Like, what does he eat first? That's good. Yeah, I mean, that's how they look at it. That's funny. That's one of the things that I kind of want to discuss. I hope I'm not taking too much of your time.

No, man. Come on, it's what I do. But it's mindset, right? It's mindset. Now I've transitioned to follow sustainable success like guys who have been able to do it for a really long time Tom Brady LeBron James yeah Rafael Nadal Roger Federer Serena Williams you know I don't know Sue Bird like so many athletes that it's easy to do it early on in your career hard to do it over a long period of time, especially with all of the distractions. You get bread, you get fame, you get this recognition,

you start winning championships, easy to become complacent. How do you maintain a certain level of success for a long period of time? That's something like people ask me that daily, particularly because I'm in this fatherhood element too. So this adds like an extra layer of depth because in wrestling, I'm considered the old guy. I'm the oldest guy on the team now. No one else has three kids, you know? So it's a very different avenue and lane that I'm within. So I'm trying to balance these things all together.

But I really have now transitioned from this young upstart trying to be this hotshot guy, get my name out to now I'm like this old wise yogi where I'm like, hey, listen, you can be successful at multiple things, my friend. And so it's been a really cool transition for me is going from this place where, you know, you're young, you're just trying to get your name out to now you're balancing multiple principles and parts of your life where it's like okay can i be a great husband great father and be driven you know what i think you could do too what's that corporate speaking i appreciate i think you'd be fantastic yeah i've dabbled in it a little bit you know

my wife's gonna kill me for saying this but we're thinking we're considering a fourth right so we're in that position now where we're like do we attempt to have a fourth right we've blessings beautiful bring joy to us every day we see him except when it's bedtime right like no one's thirsty or hungrier than a toddler at bedtime of course i'm hungry i'm thirsty i gotta go to the bathroom. I wanna give you a hug. But we're in that realm now where we're like, do we have another, can we balance this, can we maintain it, and can I still do what I do

at a high level? There's a certain responsibility I feel to my family where they need me, and I wanna have a really special relationship with all of them, and I wanna be integral in each of their development, but can I do that with an additional slice of the pie, a fourth child, and also still being ambitious or ambitious? And that's like, that's a tough balance.

And so we're trying to figure that out. It's like, is the joy weighed against, you know, kind of the lifestyle that we have now? Can we maintain this certain level that we've become comfortable with? And it's good. So, you know, I'm always trying to figure those things out on the fly and so kind of watching you and hearing that you have three kids and you're still moving and shaking and from la to austin to you know doing the ufc and flying all over the world it's a really interesting

perspective how do you manage the things that you have on your plate in regards to being successful in so many different realms and still also having healthy relationships well i've been really really lucky first of all what i everything i do i like doing it's easy married yeah how long uh 10 11 years now 11 years but. But it's easy. Like, it's easy. Doing this is easy. Yeah. Doing stand-up, it's not easy. It requires work, but it's enjoyable.

I love it. I love doing it. I love doing UFC commentary. I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's enjoyable. Yeah. Easy is the wrong word. Like, even podcasting. Like, it requires focus and thought and preparation.

Not everybody can do it. A lot of people could do it a lot of people could do it if they put the effort into it but it's it's just a matter of is it something that you enjoy doing and is it something you look forward to even after all i've been doing this podcast for 11 years now i still love doing it it's still fun it's fun i enjoy it so it makes it easy yeah it makes it easier so in that regard like it's not something that's a labor to me right all these things are not something that's a labor so i'm very fortunate in that regard but i think that's like one of the keys to success is finding the thing that excites you

always finding a thing that's challenging always a thing that you really enjoy doing a thing that like works for your personality clearly you've got that with wrestling and i feel like with a guy like you what you have is like this this incredible vehicle meaning your mind your focus your discipline and all what what you've done with wrestling you could do with anything you just have to find a track that's so the thing is like some people don't find a track some people they get really good at fighting or whatever it is and they that's it they become this bad motherfucker but they that's their identity and they can't figure out a way to focus that like miyamoto musashi he's a famous samurai wrote this book the book of five rings it's a great book on strategy

and he has this great quote that i that i remember i read this when i was a little kid when i when i first got into martial arts said once you know the way broadly you can see it in all things and i think that once you get you you find excellence in something like you have in wrestling you can be excellent in anything especially wrestling because it's so fucking hard or there's a level of excellence that yes you have to have to kind of weed yourself out right there's a certain level you can be successful with just talent and hard work whatever but then there gets to a place where you have to maintain a multi-faceted balanced lifestyle yes discipline mental endurance freaking structure and a great team like diet focus everything has to be

on point and to be at your level to be at a world championship level there can be no holes in your game yeah you don't you don't have the luxury of slacking off margin yeah of error between victory and silver medal or no metal metal no metal yeah i, these margins. Going gold and going home with a towel over your head. Yeah. And that can translate into anything. You can do that with any business that you start, anything that you pursue, whatever you want to do. That's good. That's good.

Because, you know, one of the things for me that for a long time made me nervous about the transition out of sport. Most people at 30, 34 are settling into what they're going to do forever, or at least until retirement, long-term, right? So you spend your 20s having a good time after college, you're making a little bit of money, you move to a new city, meet new people, you start to settle down, you finally get that job, you get that promotion, and now you have this path that you're going to go through until you're 59 and a half. But most athletes, you're phasing out of what you've done for your entire life at the same time that most people are transitioning into what they're going to do for the next 30 years. So it's a very difficult

proposition that we are experiencing where I've wrestled since I was six. My first weight class, 45 pounds. Now all of a sudden here i am and my wrestling career is over i hang my shoes up and i'm like what now where you're in the prime of your life what now right because you have to find something that you're passionate about and my fear is that there may be nothing that i ever experienced that i'm as passionate about as i am the sport of wrestling i am a competitor naturally that's just by by nature. And I have to kind of broaden my horizons where I'm going to enter with this certain level of excellence into everything that I do, which I know if I enter something and I'm going to do it wholeheartedly, I'm going to

be successful at it. But the question is, do I really love it? So you're trying to find what you love when most people have just found it. So the athletic experience is much different than the average Joe experience. And so I've seen so many athletes post-career spend all their money, get depressed, go into addicting substances. And it's a very difficult place that you arrive in when you don't know who you are. For so long, our identities have been tied to our success. Everywhere I go, people call me champ. Like I'm not Jordan. I'm not Burroughs. I'm not JB. I'm champ. And so when I go out of this phase and I'm no longer looked upon as this iconic wrestling guy who is going to beat the hell out of you every time I deem I need to, and I'm just a normal human being. How do I make that transition and find what else it is that I am passionate about?

And so I think now for a long time, I've been afraid to think of other things because people are like, no, no, no. You'll have time. Keep the main thing, the main thing. Just focus on winning. The more you win, the more opportunities you'll have have but then that's how you have the guy that is won't retire overstays his welcome right diminishes and tarnishes the legacy that he's built for himself because they just won't leave i don't think you have to worry about that i don't i don't fortunately right just listening to what you're saying right now you've you've already laid out all the people i've got i've got a great team um i'm a a man of faith I've got a great wife who keeps me level-headed. But yeah, so I'm always thinking about these things as we're making this transition.

So I see athletes and I also see the ones who've done it for a long time. But not only that, the ones who go on to success after their careers. That's what I'm most impressed about. How can you elevate your profile when no one's watching you shoot hoops anymore right yeah play like kobe and you know magic johnson and michael jordan all these athletes that have parlayed their success as athletes into corporate success elsewhere like that's that's what i love to see that's dope well you just have to find the thing that's that's the difficult thing And you can't look too hard right now because right now you have to focus on wrestling and your family and all the other obligations that you have already. But how do you find it? It's hard.

You have to dabble simultaneously because you can't just wait until it's over. Right. And even if you have been successfully enough financially where you can buy yourself times. Like, listen, I'm good. I made a couple million bucks. My house to pay for, my cars are good. Kids are in good schools.

I'm fine for five years, right? And you'll find alternative ways to make money and still do what you love. But the one thing I don't wanna do is do stuff for money or do things that I don't believe in right like i want to do things that are truly honorable and that i really find our noble pursuits like this is what i want to do because i want to do it um and so trying to find that thing i've had to kind of dabble on these other kind of perspectives because as wrestlers like you have this generalized idea of what a wrestler

is right it's like okay it's kind of like a meathead guy from the midwest that grew up on a farm right freaking eats t-bone steaks even he eats the bones too um and so it's it's a trying to kind of step outside of wrestling one of the things that i've always tried to do is transcend sport or at least transcend wrestling. It's how can I broaden our audience and bring it all back to wrestling so everyone wins? We all elevate our profiles simultaneously. It's a difficult thing to do,

but it's almost been a responsibility that was early on just placed upon me because I was just winning. And now I've taken on the responsibility because I wanna do it. But now I'm like, okay, like, I've taken on the responsibility because I want to do it. But now I'm like, okay, well, I have to also be the first guy to move on and have success outside of the wrestling forum that's not a coach. Most, if you look at the college landscape and college wrestling, the head coaches, most of them are Olympic champions. Tom Brands, Kale Sanderson, John Smith, you know,

you've got all these guys that wrestled at Iowa, wrestled at, you know, some of the best universities in the country and world. Most head coaches were either Division I national champions or Olympic and world medalists. It's just a natural progression. You are a good wrestler, you go on and coach and take over university and build this program up but very few people want to kind of explore outside of the realm of just coaching itself and so i'm trying to get to a place where i'm i feel comfortable with being counter-cultural and doing something different that's almost it's it's opposed to where i am as a wrestler because most Olympic champions just coach. What kind of things are you considering?

That's a good question. I told you about my high-performance training center I'd like to dabble in. That seems like it's right in your wheelhouse. That's in my wheelhouse. That's something I want to create. This is the mothership for all things. And it will be multifaceted

in capturing all areas of human identity from you know nutrition to spirituality to self-developing all these things because i want you have to create good men and women in order for them to be good athletes i think and we still at the highest level you you can find it sometimes, but I feel like they're weeding themselves out. The best athletes that have sustained success are men and women of integrity, at least to some degree, right? Like you might see some individuals that, you know, have a bad rap or are engaged in

controversy regularly, but they eventually start to lose whatever zest it was that they had for their sport and they can't win for a long period of time but the best they're not embroiled in controversy look at lebron and tom brady like when have you ever seen them in the news for something crazy they did at home true you just don't see it right and that's why they're still those guys yeah um and so i think that for me it starts with a certain level of discipline that you have to give to the youth like hey listen i'm going to teach you how to have mental toughness i'm going to teach you how to be accountable i'm going to teach you how to be disciplined and then we're going to learn athletics how to be great wrestlers afterward because if i

can create men and women of character and integrity, then essentially they'll become champions naturally because the people I respect most weren't the best athletes. I've wrestled with hundreds of wrestlers in my lifetime, and the ones that had the best leadership qualities weren't the ones that were the best wrestlers. It was the ones that were low maintenance, that did the right things, came to practice on time. They were good teammates.

They did well in school. They were good leaders. They were guys that you just trusted. all these things you're saying to me i feel like what i was saying earlier about you doing corporate speaking engagements i think you would be really good at that thanks any corporations out there that are looking for somebody let me think about what you've accomplished let's go and again i mean i don't want to belabor this, but to become a world champion wrestler, to win four world championships, to win an Olympic gold medal, you have a mindset that very few people will ever be able to understand without hearing it come out of your voice.

They're probably not going to understand what it takes to be a person like yourself, but you can articulate it. And the way you articulate it's very inspiring thanks man and you also have a very like you have you have an ethical and a moral vision for the kind of children you want to raise the kind of athletes you want to train the kind of people that you admire all that stuff translates into any other business any other pursuit those those are like these are like these are key components for success it's not just wrestling right like what you've achieved in wrestling is because of all these other things because of the hard work because of the discipline because

the the focus and the intelligence and all these other aspects of what makes you you. But those things you could teach to people. Yeah. And you teach clearly by example because of your achievements, but also because of the way you're able to express yourself. Yeah. And for you to be able to do something like that, to have a training center, like you envision, it would be dope. But also I really think you could be very valuable speaking to corporations.

I appreciate that. And all these things that we're talking about today, you could structure this in some sort of like a plan where you get in front of these people and give them real tools that they can apply to their life that can improve them in everything they do. That'd be fun, man. I'd love it. I think that's your thing, man. I'd love it. I think that's your thing, man. I'd love it. I really do. You have to.

I've been taught for so long because I'm an athlete. I've never worked. I had one job when I was 19 years old. Really? Ever? Between my sophomore and junior year. Your whole life? One job.

For one summer, two months, I worked at a beer distribution factory back in South Jersey we go around on a big trucks every day and we go to all the liquor stores and bars in the town and we would drop off kegs spike them off the truck and bring them and set up displays inside liquor stores that was what I did for once and I made $13 an hour and so each week I make about 550 bucks and I remember at the time like I thought I was a rich man but I was like let's go I would go to I take my girlfriend to the mall we go to we go to Aeropostale at the time that's what we were wearing Abercrombie and Fitch and we would

buy a bunch of clothes and we go to the movies and we'd hang out and I would spend all 500 dollars in a single week living life and so I had to I have to see myself as this person that can implement different levels of advice and ideas to people that aren't necessarily peers. It's easy to talk to a peer. It's easy to talk to someone who's younger than you that admires you, but it's hard for you. I have like this inferiority complex where it's like okay if this person is successful then they already have the tools they don't need me like they know what they're doing so i think that for me finding that niche into where i'm like okay listen you've done well you know things you've experienced them you've lived

them firsthand how can you use all of the knowledge that you've gained on your journey to actually help other people they will be willing to listen if you teach it they will listen this is how you do it you teach what you learned yeah what you learned in your life that helps you and just say you don't have to teach them like you need to do this yeah you don't have to do that you say if they ask right if they ask yeah i'm i'm really scared of unsolicited advice that that is one thing that i'm always like why we're yo because bro like who wants to hear from someone that you didn't ask for right you know it's like i didn't send for you bro like why are you giving me advice i don't want it right so i'm always trying to be

like oh giving unsolicited advice where i'm like i'm the guy that i i have a hard time with telling people what they need to do or what they should do, what I think will help improve their lives. Because that would insinuate that I have a better life and I know more. Well, it's also a tricky thing because when you're doing that, like if you have to do it, the type of person that needs that information that's really going to use it, they're going to ask you. Yeah. They're going to say, hey, man, man I really respect you what you've done is amazing how do you do this what are you doing what do you how was your day like yeah how do you start because they want to know because they want to do it not the

that's if you you know like if someone doesn't have the desire if someone doesn't they don't want to like seek out the information like you don't want to give it to them because they're not going to do anything with it anyway right it's like you're not going to really you're not going to get into someone's head unless they want to let you in yeah right and the people that want to let you in they're the people that are going to want to ask for sure they're the people who are going to want to listen to you talk on this podcast so the people that if you did have like some sort of a seminar that you did for corporations or for anybody that wants to be motivated. And you could explain what you've done in your life and what led you through discipline, what gave you the focus, how you kept that fire alive.

Those things are inspirational to people. Inspiration is fuel. Fuel. It's one of the greatest things that I personally use. I'm inspired by so many different people i'm inspired by people's discipline and people's achievements discipline is a big thing man it's everything i tell my kids all the time be disciplined or be disciplined all right so i'm like hey listen like that i have to teach you son, like if you decide to do this. It's a great phrase.

You will choose discipline. I got that from our pastor, Love Church in West Omaha, Todd Doxson. So he says, be disciplined or be disciplined. Because I have to teach my son like, hey, bro, this world is hard. It's hard, dad. Like that fig bar that you just ate for a snack before bed. I had to work hard to get that. You know how many double legs I had to shoot to get this house? But no, honestly, I always want to give him perspective because as kids, they don't really understand.

I read a book by Dr. Meg Meeker called Raising Ungrateful Kids in an Entitled World. Or Raising Grateful Kids in an Ent world and or raising great excuse me raising grateful kids in an entitled world and so basically the premise behind the book was how can we provide for our kids a life in which we're creating character but also give them more than we had there's just so much expectation like my kids sometimes they're like just because i exist this should be afforded to me right I'm like bro like no that's not how things work here like first of all if you treated any one of your friends the way you treat mom and dad and your sister sometime at home they'll beat you up they wouldn't want to spend time with you like it's just the bottom line and so I'm always under this mindset and this premise. And I try to do a greater job

every day at being a better father that, you know, I don't think people are born good. I think people are born bad. And then they are constructed to be people of integrity. You know, you see the videos and the cute little anecdotes of kids hugging and smiling with each other. It's like, oh, see, kids love each other from jump. It's like, if you think people are inherently good you've never had one rice crispy treat left in your cabinet with two hungry kids because when there's one treat that comes out they get they're scrapping they get they're scrapping bro it's a fight it's a straight up fight and so i have to continuously always try to sharpen and refine them because in our human profile, we're just innate. We're within the flesh. Like we're always going to

want to please ourselves. And so there are so many times where I'm like, bro, listen, if you just give her the bigger piece now, I promise you that you will be rewarded for it later. If you can just treat your mom with character and respect now, I promise you that I will reward you later. But it's so hard because in their flesh, they're like, ah, I don't want that. She doesn't have the bigger piece. You know, I don't want to go to bed. Why does she get two Christmas presents and I got one? So I'm just always trying to figure out ways in which that I can implement the things that I've learned.

But it's hard because no one gives you an instruction manual for parenting. Right. Like, I had my son at, I think I think i was 25 26 and i was fresh out of college and i left home at 18 and everything that i learned after 18 was learned in an environment where i was just trying to figure things out on the fly isn't it crazy so you leave the hospital and they're like here you go no one trains you i'm like wait we gotta leave we gotta take this thing with us they're like sir you gotta bring the seat up, put the baby in the car seat, and then you got to walk them down. And you were 25.

That's it. It's hard. And I was still a baby. Yeah. I was still a baby, and I was growing and developing myself. So I think you get better with each kid. Each kid gets a better life than the original, right? The first one's the hardest.

That's the test. That's the test. The test baby. than the original right the first one's the hardest that's the test that's the test so the baby is like the baby of your family is always going to be the one that gets the best version of you the oldest is going to get the more the roughest the rough draft of yourself and then you're just kind of working from there sometimes the youngest kids are the ones that achieve the most though that's what's interesting yeah it's because like it's a more casual way of raising the kids you're not as worried about them because the first one you're like don't touch that what did he eat so we gotta

watch the third one you're like yeah you can do a backflip go ahead do a backflip listen sometimes all we tell them is like we don't want to go to the urgent care this weekend please like that just doesn't want to go to hospital just as long as, please. Like dad just doesn't want to go to the hospital. Just as long as there's no blood, you can play the floor is lava and jump from couch to couch. Just please don't get hurt. Don't get cut up. Yeah, it's hard and no one teaches you how to do it and it's the most important thing in the world. And that's the weirdest thing about being a parent.

It's like it's so easy to get someone pregnant. So harder marriage or parenthood? easy to get someone pregnant so harder harder marriage or parenthood well parenthood is more complicated because you're taking a person who is a tiny little baby and you're teaching them about life and you're talking to them and you're explaining things and you're experiencing all the little troubles that they go through and try to talk go through, and try to talk them through it, and try to discipline them, and keep them from doing things. But I got very lucky with my wife. And she's a great person. And she's a nice person.

Just one of the best things about her. She's so nice. She's just so nice. She's a nice person. And I get along with her. You're so nice. She's such a sweetheartgan she's a sweetheart she really is but she's also really funny and really smart i got lucky yeah and i have friends that

are not lucky that's a blessing bro it's a blessing i have friends that are in a bad marriage you know what you know what i was talking about this with my wife if and this is twofold i don't want to blame this completely on the women because men are the one that decide to court and pursue women. But could you imagine how much further or how much lower the divorce rate would be if women said no during the proposal? Like how much lower would divorce rate be if women said, nah, too many red flags. Nah. Like I'm good. Like I saw what you did the other day or i ran i went through

your phone or this won't make things better this won't improve our relationship i'm pregnant but i i don't want to get married and if men you know consciously thought about the proposal process but i think that this has become such a uh a heralded event that when you get proposed to, naturally you're like, yes, we'll figure it out later. Where if you just said no now and then you'll figure it out from there. There's a Christian author, Jefferson Bethke, says always say no first and then convince yourself otherwise. But don't say yes and then convince yourself not to do it. Because once you say yes, you're already,

you're, so much of the world's problems come from people saying yes when they don't really want to. With everything. With everything. With everything. There's so many responsibilities we take on

and we don't really want to do it, but we feel like we should. There are things that people romanticize, right? Marriage is definitely one of them. And then certain jobs are one of them. Certain jobs, like becoming successful at a job that's not interesting to you, but everybody's telling you, hey, it's a good job. You should do it. And you wind up doing it, and then you're stuck, and you don't know how to get out of it.

And now your life is out of your hands. Yeah, but you've got a great wife, and that was a blessing for you because you see firsthand your buddies that are going through struggles and difficulties at home. Yeah, and it's not necessarily just because of their wives either. It's because of them too. No, it's not the wives. It's the men. But we overburden the women when we should be the lead. So it's like, hey, I want to marry you because I promise to change and do better and reflect on the red flags and eliminate them.

But the women, we put them in a position where there's so much pressure that they can't say no. So you're like, we know that this is something that they desire to have. So we present it to them and say, here, I'm going to dangle this carrot out in front of you joe because i know this is what you really want so please forget everything that i've done in the past like i'm a man like before i was married like i came with a lot of baggage but because of the excellence that i wanted to kind of characterize and have i wanted to change because i wanted to be a good husband i wanted to be a good father i think you're going to do that with everything though i think a person like yourself that has this sort of integrity and focus you're going to do this with everything you do yeah yeah that's what makes a champion

i mean really what you want to be is a champion in everything right a champion in life a champion as a father a champion as a parent a champion as a husband a champion as a neighbor a champion as a friend i mean what you're doing is like you're just operating at the highest standards yeah yeah that's why i think you'd be amazing at public speaking i appreciate i really do i think because you really do embody get like i want to take a video like hey listen joe rogan endorsed me he said that you have to have me look at this corporate event. Look at this conversation we're having. You're so good at this. At your next corporate event.

How many podcasts have you done before? Not many. You're fucking great at it, man. Look how great you are expressing yourself. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun, right? It's fun, yeah. But you're great at it. You're great at expressing yourself.

And you really do live the life that you're talking about. And you have the achievements. Authenticity. Yes. It's important. Authenticity. You've got to be authentic, bro. Authenticity is everything. do live the life that you're talking about and you have the achievement authenticity yes it's important you gotta be authentic authenticity is everything people can see through the facade through the bullshit yeah because they see you right they see i want to talk to you about this this when you're talking about authenticity i want to talk to you about have you ever seen the movie

icarus i have dabbled i'm honestly i don't want to watch it entirely because I would be so angry afterwards. It's crazy. Because I've lost to Russians in some of the biggest matches of my career. And I know if I saw that, I would be so pissed off because they have changed my life in terms of being an Olympic champion, winning more world titles, more golds. They've taken money out of my pocket, notoriety and fame away from me. And it'll really upset me. So that's why I've decided not to. It's a good thing to watch just to understand the sophistication involved.

Just to be upset. Let me explain to people that don't know what we're talking about. Icarus is a documentary by brian fogel and brian was a cyclist and what he did was he decided to do a race and it was for the for the documentary he did a race completely natural recorded his results and then he hired this russian gentleman who was a part of the Russian supposedly their anti-doping association well he eventually as time went on it got exposed but he just completely lucked into this this situation where he hired this guy to tell him what should I do his name was Grigory Rechenkov. Thank you, Jamie. He's a man, Jamie. He is a man. And Grigory told him exactly what he should take

and when he should take it and do this and do that. And then he was going to do the same race again the following year, but juiced up and see what the difference in performance was. Along the way, the Sochi Olympics gets exposed

that the Russians had cheated. And what they had done was, it was a super sophisticated scandal where they cut a hole in the wall and they were transferring the dirty piss through one hole and giving them the clean sample to replace. So they had found that there was microscopic scratches in these supposedly impossible-to-open bottles. Soussians had figured out a way to open these bottles

and which have you seen the real ones have you ever no seen one of the real bottles no i haven't seen them in the flesh you cannot open them yeah you can you will break them if you open them impossible they like have this sophisticated system in there where it's locked into the interlocks with the glass so once you close it as tightly as possible you cannot reopen it well they somehow or another figure to work around to get in there and open it and when they did that they achieved an unprecedented number of gold medals i mean they just they dominated the sochi olympics in russia i'm pissed bro i'm hot because i'm hot and you we know it like we know it pull up the i don't even want to get into please get into it so pull up the i lost in the quarterfinals of the olympic games in 2016 there's a guy named an wire godoyev i just want you to see a picture of this guy you tell me

was this in rio clean this was in rio in r, weren't a lot of the Russians, they were kicked out of Rio because of Sochi. So they did the most Russian, the most failed test by Russia in all Olympic sports. First was track and field. Second was weightlifting. Third was wrestling. Wrestling was number three out of all Olympic sports. However many programs there are, I'm sure there are a ton of sports you've talked about it wrestling was third they pro date all these samples so they're getting popping guys

from oh wait 2012 and they're saying you know what this guy was on a substance he was on you know some sort of performance enhancing drug so we're going to strip of him him of his metal and we're going to give the guy that took fifth place the bronze medal instead but at that point it's such a different experience you never got to stand on the podium you never got to travel the world and tell everyone about your metal you never got to get that check that was associated with whatever success that you had that someone taking away someone's gold medal and then giving it to you is not it's not the same it's not the same so it's it's life-changing experience that you miss out on because these guys are being unhealthy and just straight up cheaters so like i like i there's a certain amount of disdain that

i have for russia i respect them because they're tremendous wrestlers not everyone cheats not everyone cheats but there are those who do and it's well known in the wrestling community and so at this point we have had to just accept it and try to beat them. You just got to beat them because it doesn't matter. They are so powerful. The IOC is so powerful that regardless of what they do, Thomas Bach and the IOC will never make a stance in which they will completely ban Russia. So they've banned Russia from the Olympic Games, but the athletes that test cleanly can still compete under a different flag. So ultimately it'd be like the independent republic of Russia.

That they can still compete in. But the Russian flag will not be visible in Tokyo or in Paris in 2024. Really? You cannot compete under the Russian national flag. Really? Done. Wow. I didn't know that.

So they've been banned from the Olympic Games, their governing body, Russia itself. So all Russian athletes will have to go through a testing process and then they will be able to compete as independent athletes under a different flag, but not the Russian flag. That's bananas. and that's how far we've come bro and like i've seen so many athletes in track and field and weightlifting and wrestling that have seen other athletes get stripped and then have been given their medals years later

and all they get is an instagram post yeah it's not bro like you didn't get a chance to win it's not cool it's not the same and it's it's sad because it it it's the butterfly effect right because it messes up the the the ripple of the entire bracket right so it's like you beat this guy and then all he loses here and this guy goes here and this guy retires or he changes weight classes like there's just so many things that just happen because of this so it doesn't make me happy it doesn't sit well with me but at this point like what do you do like i mean you blow the whistle enough times but you just got to do what you can to to avoid it and that the only way to do it is beat them i think in wrestling we have kind of like the biggest margin of error because just because someone's in great shape doesn't mean

you can't beat them in wrestling there's so much precision and technical skill that's associated with it that you can still overcome that steep hill but that's a problem with the russians as well because they're very proficient they're freaking very good they're freaking so technical the wrestlers in these you know provinces and caucuses are insane insane at the sport like they from birth they are competing and training at the highest level it's unlike like here you got youth sports and you play games and you know i mean you play freeze tag with your buddies at practice and you do a couple of rope climbs you're done like these guys are training like olympians at eight years old they're doing black bridge kickovers and they're learning five point throws

and they're just technically savvy at a much earlier age because they're bred for this. We think we have it hard here. Like poverty here is nothing like poverty in other countries, especially, you know, in like Ossetia or Chechnya and all these places. Like it's just a different vibe there. So they have some amazing wrestlers. And amazing motivation, too, with that poverty. Oh, yeah. It's life changing. They're tied into the government.

The U.S US is the only country That their Olympic team is not government funded the only country in the world where really our Olympic team is funded privately by donations corporate sponsors That's it. We're only country in the entire world everywhere every country and the world has The government funding the way that they operate and making sure that they are competing at a high level. That's got to be an incredible disgrace for Russia to be eliminated from the 2020 and 2024 Olympics. Yeah. Well, when you stand on top of the podium, bro, there's a certain amount of pride that comes with seeing your flag raised above all else.

That is a special moment. And so for them, i don't know because is it pride or is it is it financial incentive is it just being an olympic champion let me ask you this what if a guy wins in 2008 okay and and and pops like they retroactively test the samples. And then is he still capable of competing in the future? Or is he eliminated forever? Well, it depends. I mean, if you pop from a few years ago, then maybe, I don't know, maybe they pro-date your suspension and say, okay, every, let's say if you got suspended on that day for two years post that day, all of your results in that period of time will probably be eliminated.

But I don't think they would say. I've heard that argument, but I've also heard the argument that if you're cheating, you should be eliminated for life. For life? And that that's the only way to stop cheaters. Is that like,

if you want to stop someone from doing something, it's prestigious as the Olympic gold medal. That's a death sentence. I don't know. I know it's a death sentence, but I mean, you are, you're cheating. Yeah. You're cheating. You're cheating. It's a sentence. But, I mean, you are cheating. Yeah. You're cheating.

You're cheating. It's a thing. Like, the whole reason to win the Olympics is for glory and for the opportunity for sponsorships for Americans. But that's why, though. That's why they're doing it, man. Yeah. Well, it's political glory. And when Russia had it in the Sochi Olympics, it's not like a coincidence.

They're following that medal count closely, bro. Don't let anybody fool you. That medal count every year at every Olympic Games is something that us in the village as athletes and the presidents of each particular respective country, they're following that. They want to win. They want to be the best.

Of course. That's big to them. So above all else, some people are willing to take some crazy chances to be successful because they know the incentives that will follow them getting their hand raised. But some people operate with character and they're like, you know what? Win or lose, I'm not doing these things. I think though with Russia, and this was pretty clear because of this documentary. They don't have a choice. They don't have a choice.

They don't have a choice. What was this wrestler that you wanted to say? What was the video? It was Anwar Gadoyev. Just pull up a photo. There's a photo of him. He's like super vascular. How about Corellon?

I mean, Corellon's one of the craziest examples ever. His parents were tiny little folks. They were like 5'5", and he was built like a human panther. That's a big fella that's the guy that's achievable naturally with superior genetics i mean it is possible but if you look at any other look at all the other russians that i've wrestled over the last over the last decade none of them have that that level of stature but it's it is whatever man like we've exchanged matches he's beaten me. I've beaten him.

But he beat me when it counted at the Olympic Games. He does look pretty stacked. He's tough, man. He's a stud. And this was in Rio? This was in Rio. This is a game changer. And you are suspicious?

Yeah, I am. I'm going to be honest. I'm a little suspicious. I probably get a gonna be honest i'm a little suspicious i probably get a lot of heat for it and russians probably won't be happy with it but even if he didn't test positive then the odds of him using steroids up before then or using some sort of performing whether it's epo for training to get to where he got to like physically yeah you know you keep a lot of the gains no matter what that's the hard part about it is within that space if you don't have a choice fine right you know joe listen if you want to be on a podcast you have to right do this right if the government tells you

hey you want to compete for the russian team you have to take or you can go be a construction worker for the rest of your life making minimum wage you're like i'll take that podcast give me that right so i think it's it's a very different vibe there like they don't have opportunity outside like they can't go to university they don't go to school russian wrestlers don't go to college they don't go to universities and get four-year degrees and get masters and go on to the corporate world they don't do that it's either you are an o an Olympic champion or they will choose a job for you. And it's probably not one that's super enticing. Or you will work in some sort of organized syndicate.

It's just different. It's different. Yeah. But that's the way they operate there. It's got to be infuriating for you, though, to see the results, like the Sochi Olympics. And I understand why you wouldn't want to watch that documentary, but I encourage you to watch it. I got to watch it.

Yeah. It's so intense, man. It makes me uncomfortable because it's hard to, I'm not a guy that, like, is going to accuse someone of something that I can't prove. Right. And that's not proven, right? It's like this whole election fraud thing.

It's like, no, I'm telling you what happened. I'm like, OK. So, you know, for me to claim that this guy is on steroids just because he's vascular and muscular is a difficult thing for me to do. But I've heard so many grumblings for such a long period of time that I'm like, bro, like, come on. Like at this point, after, you know, all of the conversations that happened after Icarus and after them being suspended and WADA and USADA covering up all these tests and all this crazy, crazy happening in all sorts of sports. I'm like, bro, this state sponsored doping is a real thing.

They're killing people that are blowing the whistle in Russia. Yeah. Like killing people. So I'm like. Russia. Yep. Like, killing people. So I'm like. Well, this Grigory guy is in witness protection in America. He's hiding. They took all his money away. They took his family's home away in Russia.

He can't see his family again for the rest of his life. Like, it's terrible. The situation is terrible. Yeah, man. It's wild. Yeah. terrible situation's terrible yeah man it's wild um yeah i'm it's funny because i know this is gonna cause like a stir within the wrestling wrestling russian wrestling community so i'm like anticipating the backlash that's gonna happen immediately after this goes on but well you are

it's one of those things where it's like skill too though you're doing both no no i'm listen they're tremendous wrestlers but i stand by what i said that's how i feel and it is what it is like otherwise there wouldn't be if so many people that have been accused of it like if enough people say bad things about you chances are it might be happening it's like you're always the common denominator like how is that possible um so i'm a guy that i'm a purist. I always want to operate with integrity because it's just what I do. Number one, I love my body.

So I'm not going to just put nonsense in it. Number two, I want to protect the integrity of the sport, right? Like it's the spirit of the sport. We compete to see who really has trained the hardest, who's done the most, sacrificed the most and been disciplined. That's why we do what we do. Like if you're bringing PEDs within the sports world, like it is very difficult to really judge who the best competitor is. And that's what we're trying to do. So it's like playing a video game.

If I'm playing Madden and I got a cheat code and all my guys' stats and attributes are up to 99s and I'm trying to play you with an average roster, how can you win? How can you win? You can't win you can't win you can't win bro so it's it's it's it's really hard to experience because I've sacrificed all my life to be great at this and so when someone does it the improper way and I don't know what they're doing I don't know how hard they're training but I know what I do personally so yeah it bothers me

have you ever had a conversation with a russian that spoke english about any of this no i have not um but i probably will soon i know honestly i invite i invite someone from the russian delegation to have this conversation with me like but, but a understandable one, not one of denial, right? Like, not one of denial, like one, like, hey, listen, we have had some guys, this is, they have dabbled in it. It's like, we can, I'm not going to be like, see, told you, go get them. You know what I mean? It's like, I want a conversation where like, damn, okay, I understand, but why, but how, okay, now can we, is it possible that you guys have guys that are not doing this? Are they just amazing wrestlers?

Do they just have the technical superiority and that's why they've been so successful for a long period of time? Is that what you have or is this a large part of what you do? And are they forced into it? And, you know, their backs are against the wall and, you know, their hands are tied. There's nothing they can do about it. So I'm willing to have an open conversation to understand it. I'm not just out here accusing them for the sake of making them look bad because I've seen them train.

They work hard. I've seen them learn technique, and I've seen the structure and the system and systematic approach they have to their sport. They're great at their craft. But I also have seen guys that have been jacked up and then i've seen them post-career and they look puny and i'm like man how is that possible right so i'm just i'm trying to navigate the different dynamics of this whole experience without being this jerk that's like hey you guys are no

good because they're good wrestlers well they're great wrestlers and they're very technical but they're also a part of a program that has been proven to be corrupt yeah i mean i don't think that's an unfair thing to say particularly when you pay attention to what happened at the sochi olympics and pay attention to the fact what you just said that in 2020 and 2024 they can't fly the russian flag that's not discrimination that's not that's a punishment it's a punishment it's punishment from mass mass state-sponsored doping it's happening it's happening yeah it's real it's real it's 100 real it's real bro yeah i mean the documentary i'm telling you man please watch it it's bonkers i watched it like this the whole time my mouth was wide open like what oh and the guy just stepped in shit the guy making the dot brian fogel just you know what's wild though is like that state

sponsor here usada they don't care about us like they don't care about the athletes so whoever pays wada there whoever you know is taking the test they either are so fearful or they're just in cahoots and they're getting well the ioc and wada they they switch executives back and forth that was also a part of the thing that they discussed it's like people from wada go to work for the ioc ioc people go to work i've never gotten any breaks here and i've never seen anyone in the wrestling community at least american wrestling get any breaks from usada they are always at our heads same with the ufc so i'm like i'm gonna test ufc fighters they i've never seen a break so when i see that i'm jealous bro because i'm like this dude probably has to train less.

He probably doesn't have to update his whereabouts. You know what I mean? He doesn't have someone following him around. Doesn't have to have a phlebotomist take blood and collect urine samples all the time. And there's one day, one week, I got tested like four times in the same weekend. Why? And I'm like, I'm asking the same thing, bro. I'm like, why?

I tested yesterday yesterday how what could i have taken between yesterday and today that it would have enhanced me so much that i could have won today i'm sure there's some things yeah but the fact that i'm like come on take that risk so they're probably thinking like oh let's see if someone does it right after we test them we'll test them again the next day just in case. Just in case. But still, that's crazy. They're not doing that in Russia. So I'm like, I guarantee that whoever I have to compete against is not up at 5 a.m. with a dude banging on their door. That's a problem too, though.

Why the fuck do they think that that's okay to interrupt your sleep? I actually do that purposely. So I put them early because at any other time of the day you have to let them know where you are so let's just say you you tell them um i'm gonna be at the crib today then all of a sudden you're like shoot i ran out of batteries i gotta run to target real quick and then they show up at your house as soon as you pull off your block and now they're waiting for you and you're gone and there's traffic and the line's long and all of a sudden you takes you hour and a half what you thought was going to be a 20

minute ride and they only give you an hour window so now you get back and they're gone report all of your whereabouts not all of your whereabouts what city you're in all of your whereabouts oh that's so you have to give them an hour time that you're at home every day. So there's an hour window every single day. And you test quarterly. Or you update your whereabouts quarterly. So every three months you do your whereabout update. You give them an hour slot. I try to put it as early as possible because I'm like,

I'm going to be in bed. There's no way I'm going to be out of my house between 5 and 6 a.m. I'm always going to be in bed. But then they interrupt your sleep. They do. And they knock like the police. Shout out Dave Carl. You saw that. a.m i'm always oh my god but then they interrupt your sleep they do and they knock like the police shout out dave carl you saw boom boom boom doorbell doorbell boom boom boom oh my god kids are up they're crying they're in our bed they're downstairs but i try to do it early so two things i know i'm home and i know i'll have to pee they wake me up out of my sleep i haven't taken my first pee of the morning is it a blood test in the morning as well sometimes it depends they've just recently started doing blood tests over like the last year

so and so like they're on you so there have been a lot of people that have been suspended just because they didn't update their whereabouts so like you'll go somewhere and you'll be like um right here i'm like i'll be home today and then all of a sudden our podcast runs long i'm here for three four hours and they're at the crib waiting and no one's home. Well, I've talked to fighters that when they had to choose between UFC and Bellator, there was two decisions, two things that led them towards Bellator. One, sponsors. They could have their own sponsors, whatever sponsors they like. They don't have to be tied to Reebok.

And two, no USADA. So they don't have anybody banging on their door. They just get normal drug tests. Normal drug tests. Normal drug tests when they have weigh--ins and that so crazy story one time i got tested i was just graduating from college i was living in an apartment on my own i was still single and i went out lat the night before i was like out with some friends at the bar having a few beers I was like out with some friends at the bar having a few beers.

And I left my keys in the bar, lost my keys. So I had to sleep in our locker room. I slept in our locker room at the university. And so I remember waking up the next morning. It was a guy from USADA, Dave, like, hey, JB, I'm at your house. And you have an hour to get here. And I'm like, I don't have my keys. I can't even get into my house and so i call dave i'm like dave i lost my keys last night i really don't know where they

are if there is there any way else we can get tested and he was like yeah like if you can just find a bathroom somewhere else you can get tested so there's a panera bread right down the street from my house so i'm like all right panera we go to panera bread we get there so if you know anything about usada testing they have to watch you pee. And so bro, super random. I'm in Panera Bread down the street from my house with two

dudes. This guy's behind me. It's like, alright, I need you to wash your hands. Put your cup up here. Alright, pull your pants down to your knees. I got my pants down to my knees. Down to your knees? Yeah, because they have to make, you can't just like fly. You have to make sure it's not a rubber dick fly like it's got to be yeah and they need to see you actively pee in this cup that's hilarious i'm in panera bread with this guy behind me pants down to my knees like down the street from my crib like super embarrassed i'm like please god no one will walk

in here um are you in a stall at least in a stall yeah okay in a stall because if you're in front of the urinal everybody be like what are these are you okay do you need help i'm like i'm good i know this guy he's just checking to make me pee uh yeah it was it was interesting times bro but yeah you know i've i pride myself on what i put into my body taking care of what i do and and that's why i'm always weary out of respect to you know kill cliff and what i do and and that's why i'm always weary out of respect to you know kill cliff and what you guys provide oh i get it i'm always just like if i don't know it and it's not my own i don't eat it you should be wary yeah but look a lot of ufc fighters been popped for accidental uh crazy stuff eye drops contamination yeah dick pills yeah a lot of things happen. Yeah. I'm okay in that department.

I'm really concerned about gene therapy. I'm really concerned about what we're ready for soon because there's things like CRISPR and these gene editing tools. I'm concerned with super athletes that are going to be produced by other countries before we get a chance to do that in the United yeah I really think that I think the kids that are they're developing right now there's there's all sorts of different genes that they could alter switch on switch off myostatin inhibitors all these different things can enhance is it that serious though what do you mean like is why has I mean there's a ton of billions of dollars in athletics

there's so much money well think about it this way how about this way put it this way think about how much money they earn in the olympics and how little they give to you just think of that think of the athletes who the fuck who's making money in the olympics i'll tell you who should be making the money networks the the athletes should be making most of the money, but they're making none of it. It's crazy. It's the biggest scam in all of athletics. You get a medal, though. You have this thing.

Oh, nice. You get a beautiful medal. How much does that cost? You've got to think about how much attention. If you have the Olympics, you have a guaranteed audience. People want to see it. much attention you you're if you have the olympics you have a guaranteed audience people are want they want to see it there's nationalism and pride and and and everybody wants to see all these different sports that maybe they enjoy maybe it's gymnastics maybe they used to swim they want to watch

wrestling and no one's getting paid and they're just raking in all the cash they got fucking commercial after commercial it's sponsored by this company and their banners are here and there's so much money and the athletes don't get any of it it's crazy i get it so when you have all this nationalism all this national pride from russia and china and all these different countries you don't think they're gonna do some gene editing you don't think they're gonna take look look i'm gonna tell you a story about yoel romero you know yo Yoel Romero, right? Yoel Romero is tested by USADA all the time, right? He's clean, and no one believes he's clean because he is one legitimate freak of nature. If you look at him, Yoel Romero went to a doctor once because the UFC, he had fractured his orbital in a fight.

Yoel Romero, they brought him to his doctor. The doctor examines him and then calls the UFC and goes, where did you get this guy? And they go, what do you mean? And he goes, he is a specimen. And they go, yeah, he's amazing, right? He goes, no, no, no, you don't understand. I've never seen a human like him. The guy's like, I've been working on people for decades.

He goes, the tendons in his eye are three times larger than a normal person's. Like, everything about him is freakish But that's just genetics some that's why some women are born with giant tits some people have crazy big noses, right? Yeah, Yoel Romero is just a freak. What if you developed a whole army of Yoel Romero's? Yeah, I would have possible. What if you figured out how to turn on all these genes? What if you looked at what he does? I mean, he's a perfect physical specimen. What if you took that perfect physical specimen and you recreated it? What if you took Shaq and Serena Williams? Yes, or Kobe or LeBron James.

LeBron James is a giant super athlete. What if you took that and just made thousands of them and you populated your whole team? And put them all on fight island made your own country like a bruce lee movie i mean i don't think that's outside of the realm of possibility and that's what i'm concerned with what i'm concerned with is that over here we're using usada knocking on doors at five o'clock in the morning and there's countries that have less morals they're like 2040 already and they're not even thinking about right yeah our country is trying to bust

our athletes their country is trying to help them cheat i mean how crazy is that balancing act yeah that's a crazy balancing act and even though the united states is obviously very competitive in the olympics and does amazing and and wins a shitload of gold medals and has amazing athletes you gotta think that these countries that are using these new tools if they get ahead of us with this kind of shit i mean it could be real i don't think we'll ever lose though bro like we have i mean that's because you got that championship mindset you don't give a fuck listen we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get it. And that's what America stands for. What we have is we are always in great shape and we're tough.

Tough as nails. We're going to fight to the death every single time. So no matter how savvy you are, technically skilled, how much access to resources you have, it's always going to be a fight whenever you wrestle an American. Right. But remember how you feel about that Russian that might have been on some shit. And if he was, in your head, when you lay in bed and you think you lost that guy, and you look at how he looked, and you look at how muscular and vascular he was, maybe he's a Yoel Romero.

Or maybe he's a test. Maybe he's a science project. Yeah or maybe he's a test. Maybe he's a science project. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I we have so much access here that I can't ever imagine a country being better than us at anything just because we have so much structure. We have such great coaching and we just have such a melting pot of individuals that are making freakish babies all the time so it's like if you go to russia you go to any of these countries they're not melting pots like we have so there's athleticism and the genetics have not been

broadened so much so because there's just a small pool of a small gene pools that have kind of interbreeded with each other for thousands of years but here in america we have people from everywhere that have interbred and created such amazing athletes you look that's a very good point the smallest athlete in the world like simone biles who's considered one of the best athletes in the world to the biggest like lebron james you know it's amazing what we've been able to create here domestically because no other country has that sort of interracial breeding that we have and we have such a profound focus on sport too like everyone plays sports like who very few people that you'll ever meet that never played a sport in their entire lives.

That's true. I mean, you're making real good points. And listen, no one is more pro-America than me. People have to say that. America. America. I love America. I just love the concept of it.

I love the fact that it's a country filled with immigrants. I like it. That literally everyone came here i mean obviously the origins suck but what it is now is the best idea of people coming from all other parts of the world trying to seek opportunity and trying to do better for their life and their families that's the best part of what america is but i'm just saying when it comes to competitive international sports i'm really worried about gene doping. I'm really worried about that shit. I'm going to come see you 20 years from now. We'll see.

When they finally unleash their army genetically modified. A fucking team full of Corellans. It's like iRobot, right? They just come off the assembly line. I really think it's inevitable. With this technology, I think it's inevitable. Whether it's 20 years from now or 30 years from now,

whatever it is, I think it's going to be inevitable for the public for people too i think you know like right now because how would you do that here sounds expensive well i think it's expensive in the beginning but i think like cell phones when they first came out were expensive yeah and now everybody has one you know i remember the old did you ever see that movie um Street with Gordon Gekko? Of course, he had the big John. Big ass brick. He had the big brick and everybody was like, look at him.

He's talking. He doesn't even have a cord. He's out on the beach. This is amazing. And now look at us, we're like. Yeah. Now everyone has a little phone and it's way more powerful. Technology always improves and then eventually trickles down to everybody else.

always improves and then eventually trickles down to everybody else the problem is the advantages the people who are the initial early adopters will have will allow them to accumulate so much wealth and so much success that by the time it trickles down the game will already be rigged that's a real worry it's a real concern when it comes to the haves and the have-nots when it's implementing technology that changes your biology yeah and i think that's coming man i really do the thing is the alt what's the alternative right let's say you are because there's so many things that you can't you can't trigger yourself so if you just because we put lebron james and serena williams together doesn't mean that they're going to create a freak like chances are they may they're going to create a freak if more opportunities present themselves but every person is different you look at i want you

to go and take families like they you have some for example right people say the mannings and the grinkowskis and the joneses but there are a lot of families that have in a tremendous athlete and then they have an average athlete yeah or, yeah, yeah. Or no athlete, period. My parents didn't even play sports in high school. My parents didn't play sports in high school. Really? No. That's crazy.

And, like, now given my dad had a tall – my dad's 6'2". He had, like, a tall frame, long arms. My mom's short. But what they created was me and my sister. So I have three older siblings. I came from a non-traditional household, kind of like a fragmented family. My dad had two, my mom had one.

They were married, they had me. And so I have no full-blooded relatives, only halves, only half siblings. But all of us vary in athletic degree. My sister and I, who were raised in the same household, she dabbled in basketball a little bit, was decent. My brother, he was always the better athlete of the two of us. Um, he was solid. He played football, ran track.

Um, and then my oldest sister never really played sports at all. She grew up in the city. Um, but anyway, for me growing up, I was the runt. Like I was always small. I never was really strong, never was a physical specimen, but I'm still not a physical specimen, but in relation to wrestling, I am. So like, if you saw me play basketball, you'd be like, this dude is terrible. He's all, he's not an athlete. But if you see me wrestle, you're like, damn. So know what I mean? So it's like there's – in relation to what you do, you would consider yourself an athlete. So, you know, while I always wonder what pulls or helps someone gravitate to a particular sport.

Did I – am I great at wrestling because I just had the frame for it or did wrestling for so long help me to establish these certain dynamics of my athleticism that were unleashed and unfolded once I actually committed to the sport of wrestling I think you're great at wrestling because of your mind I mean I think obviously there are some physical yeah like attributes sure you have but a lot of people have those. That's true. And they never get anywhere. That's true, too.

It's your mind. The mind. The mind is strong. At the elite level, and this is the same with MMA, you have to have everything. Yeah. You can't get by. You can't beat a John Jones unless you have everything. You have to have everything.

You can't just- Consistently. Yes, consistently. You can't just be a good physical specimen you have to have the mind there are a lot of specimens a lot of specimens a lot of specimens not a lot and when you get to like a real like world-class level everybody's a fucking specimen they're all specimens so you can't just attribute it to your body which obviously you're you're gifted athletically but it's the mind and i think because I didn't grow up as a specimen helped me to develop my mind.

Because I was never the biggest. I always had to play catch up with my older siblings. Always wanted to prove myself to my dad. And so it was always a different level of experience that I had in comparison to my teammates. Where I would see them skip runs. I see them hide in the hallways during you know mile runs inside of our high school i would see them you know hang out in the locker room long when we were doing conditioning after practice and i was like i didn't have that luxury because i thought in order for me to win i had to

outwork everyone because i was small right i was small so it took me a long time to be the best like i only won one state title in high school and it was my senior year. I didn't win a state championship until I was a senior. I've won more world championships than I did state championships. And so crazy because I, how I got to this level, like I wasn't the best.

I was never the best. So I had to develop like mentally and it was just like something that through years and years of concerted effort it was never like this aha moment like damn i'm really good now well that is a thing you see with really really talented people yeah that sometimes really talented people that are just natural they never go far yeah and sometimes you always have yeah and it's it comes too easy that's when you hear the gamers like oh Oh, this guy's a gamer. Don't worry about him

He'll be ready who be on when the lights arrive and you lock the cage behind him But how often can you do that you well yet? The problem is other people are gamers and they're also disciplined and that guy's gonna fuck you up discipline Yeah, it's like this like when you get a guy like michael jordan like what creates a guy like michael jordan extreme competitiveness plus physical gifts plus discipline plus the mind the intelligence to figure out the correct path to get to the hoop the intelligence to figure out what's the right strategy to trick someone and and go this way when you want to go that way what's what's the right tactics to implement in a fight what's the what's the right move to trick someone and and go this way when you want to go that way what's what's the

right tactics to implement in a fight what's the what's the right move to use at the right time there's so much so much so these gamers well this guy's a fucking gamer too but he's been working and you've been slacking you know you've been doing things you shouldn't have done you've been partying you've been doing whatever and you thought you can get by because you think you're the fucking man well he thinks he's a fucking man too, but he's been sleeping. He's been eating right. But there's certain prerequisites that you have to possess in order to be great. So let's say you have a guy that is those things, all of those things,

tremendous success. You have a guy who's just a gamer, super talented, doesn't really want to work hard, has moderate success, can become a champion, loses his belt the very next defense. And then you have a guy who works significantly hard, but he just has – he's not a specimen. Yeah, that happens too. He just doesn't have the athleticism. So I've seen some of the hardest working guys ever do everything that I do, but they just can't win. They can't do it, yeah.

They just can't win. Life is not fair. It's't win. Life is not fair. It's not fair. It's not fair. And that's what's scary for me with my boy because I'm like, I'm an Olympic champ. Expectations are for him to be an Olympic champ. There's no father-son Olympic gold medalist combinations. It's impossible.

But I want him to be great at something. What that's going to be, I don't know. He plays soccer. I never played soccer. He plays the violin. I never played an instrument so there is so some things that he's fine-tuning that I never got a chance to have access to so I'm hoping that we can find something that he'll be great at but he loves

wrestling well I think the best that you could give him is just encourage him to find his path yeah yeah the problem is in the shadow of a great man you know like that's a it's a quote I forget said it, but find me a great man who's the son of a great man. It's very hard. That's hard. It's very hard. It's very hard. But wouldn't you say that success begets success?

You want to be who you are, and you have so many inspirational people sit in this chair daily. Yeah, but that's a different animal. They're not my dad. I know, but who? The thing is growing up, developing, your developmental cycle with a great man. It's very hard for me because men want to be the lion, right? That's why the lion kicks the young lions out of the fucking den. Like, get out of here, bitch.

Because you can't be the king. I'm the king. You can't be the king. Well, this is a part of growing up as a man. And some men know how to navigate that with their children, and they figure it out. They figure out a way to let their son. Damn, that's deep.

It is deep. That's deep, man. You got to know when to back off. That's a heavy burden to carry. But you also have to have the respect of your son, too. They have to respect you. They can't disrespect you. Yeah.

And there's an instinct to disrespect the man to prove that you you're the man so it's tricky that's right it's not they're not even being a bad person it's a genetic instinct that my wife's gotta kind of curb me a lot too because she's like listen do you want your son to be a great athlete do you want to have a great relationship with him and she's like you have to that's deep she's you have to treat him with respect so the thing that we're on now is don't humiliate him especially in front of people you talk to him the way that you want him to be addressed by other men but you want another man talking to your son that way and so she always challenges me that way it's like hey listen that's very wise if you want him to be a leader at some day someday he can't have this subservient attitude and bow to

authority because you've always been at his head for so long you have to allow him to grow up and for him to operate as a man and you have to treat him with respect you can't humiliate him in front of people you can't belittle him you have to treat him like a man i know it's hard i know he's frustrating and hard to raise but he's six he's not doing this to spite you he's just six he doesn't understand so at some point you know do you want him to love and hug you as an old man or do you want him to say what's up dad you know i want hugs i want an intimate relationship with my son i hope that your wife is very wise yeah she's a very woman that's a great perspective too she's a good woman sometimes it's hard when you're in the middle like you know

i have children i know what it's like when you're in the middle of raising kids like there's chaos and this one wants attention while you're upset with this one and then there's another one behind you breaking glasses kids are crazy they're wild they're little people and they have their own little challenges and they have their own i mean every little child is the master of their own little world and it's very difficult to manage all of those simultaneously and but what she said about your kid that's very wise and i think that's whatever your kid does he he's going to understand, like I said, about what you do, that there's a certain requirement for excellence. Yeah. And who you are as a man, not just as an athlete, but who you are as a man is going to reflect.

Yeah, that's real. That's real. And that's the hardest part about this is not only how do I want to present myself to the world, how do I want to present my kids to the world? I put some pressure on my boy. You know, I'm like, hey, listen, when you leave this house, you represent the bro's name. And that's big shoes to fill. But bro, like, listen, people do either one of two things. They either fold because of pressure or they rise to expectations. You have the ability to be great. I'm going to put you in position to be great. I promise you, if you listen to your mom and dad

you will have a great life because I'm going to do my due diligence with my faith, with my reading with the things that I learn to make sure that I put you in position to be successful all I ask is that you work hard and that you treat people with respect and that you listen to mom and dad

if you listen to us your life will be great and so I'm trying to teach him that but he's still, you know, he's sick so he's combative a little bit and he you listen to us your life will be great and so i'm trying to teach him that but he's still you know he's sick so he's combative a little bit and he's trying to figure things out right every six-year-old is yeah yeah i know right he says you take it personal sometimes though you're like no there's no other six-year-old kid like that he did that on purpose he spilled the milk on the floor because he knew i had a long practice last night sometimes it's a little of that too sometimes they cause a little trouble just to get some extra attention. Yeah, that's it, bro.

That's it. And it's, you know, it's parenting. It's rewarding, too, though, man. I mean, when your kids hug you, I'm sure. Like, for me, when I come home and they run to me and hug me, it's the greatest feeling on earth. These little people that you created and they love you. They love you so much. They just can't wait to hug you.

I know. And you have fun with them. It's like, it's a beautiful thing, man. And a lot of people, you know, they're going through it with varying degrees of stress in their life and bad relationships. And you and I are both very lucky that we have good relationships. Yeah, yeah. You need them, bro. Yeah, you need that, man.

That helps you more than anything in life to achieve. And I remind my wife of that all the time, that she's one of the reasons why I can be successful. Because I don't have this other conflict that I have to deal with all the time. Like I say, I have friends that are in bad relationships, and it hampers other things they do in their life. Are they successful? Some of them are and some of them aren't.

And some of them probably should be more successful than they are. And I think that bad relationship thing, that extra conflict, if you only have a certain amount of bandwidth for your resources. I use this point all the time, but I'll say it again. Say if the amount of resources you have in your mind, and put it in a number, like 100 units. Well, if you have a shit relationship, put it in a number like a hundred units well if you have a shit relationship that's just eating up 30 units no matter what you do you only have 70 units and

when then the guy down the street who has a great relationship with his family and his wife that guy's got a hundred units and that guy's has an advantage if you're both doing the same things he has more resources to apply to his thing because he doesn't have this constant throbbing distraction and angst and this thing like you can't wait he doesn't want to go home his fucking wife's home he wants to go to the bar and pound shots what the fuck am i doing man why did i do this that's a lot of people man you know what's crazy though is like you need a wife that understands your your ambition understands that you're driven and that's why my wife's been such a blessing because I was an Olympic champion before we were married.

And so initially when I was courting her, we're like, okay, where are we going to live? What are we going to do? Am I going to be able to continue to pursue my career? And for a while it was a battle because she was extremely smart, master's degree from Columbia in journalism, wrote for the Buffalo newspaper. And she had to make this transition where she had built this reputation for herself to now, all of a sudden she leaves her home of Buffalo,

New York comes to live with me in Lincoln, Nebraska, and no one knows her. And so there was times where we would conflict and battle because people would be like, man, you're so lucky. Like you married JB.

And she'd be like, well, I had a life of my own. I was an individual that was driven and I had people that recognized me and I've won awards and done tremendous things. And it took a while for us to really kind of settle into this space where I encouraged her to come alongside with me and where she could kind of be that help me and make the necessary sacrifices for our relationship. And, man, women lose so much in marriage, bro. Like I love what we're able to do and provide as the breadwinners and make sure our families are taken care of, but women lose so much bro of their identity. They lose their name, they lose their families and whatever dreams it was that they possessed before they married us.

A lot of times they lose that because now they're at home with the kids, taking care of them while we're out pursuing our aspirations. And so for me, it was important to bring my wife alongside me. It was like, this isn't just my thing. This is our thing. When I wrestle, we all wrestle. When I win, we all win. As opposed to, hey, I got to go to practice. See you later.

Like, that's why wherever I go, my family comes with me. All competitions, most training camps, because it's easy to have that conflict where when I'm in the wrestling room, I feel like I need to be with my fam. comes with me all competitions training camps because it's easy to have that conflict where when i'm in the wrestling room i feel like i need to be with my fam when i'm with my fam i feel like i need to you know be in the wrestling room training so i think the great thing about having a great wife is she understands that this is what i love to do this is what makes me feel purposeful and passionate and so she allows me to do that because she knows that when i return home i'm gonna give my best

effort because i'm whole because i've been able to do what i love and there's no resentment built up but if she's taking me away from that she's gonna be i'll be half of myself and it'd be really hard for me to coexist there i mean i totally understand and i i think it points to what we're saying earlier that you are a champion in life yeah and you apply the same principles that led you to become a champion wrestler to become a human being that does the right thing a human being that behaves their best that thinks their best that does the right things and that is why i think you should go into public speaking because i think you can teach that shit there it is again i think you can gotta go now i think you should go into public speaking because I think you can teach that shit. There it is again. That's three times.

It's got to go now. I think you can, man. That's what I – listen, I always think of athletes in terms of like what they're going to do when it's over because I've seen a lot of bad stories. It's particularly with fighters. It's scary. Well, particularly with fighters, nobody wants to talk about it. A lot of them are mentally compromised after their career is over. They're dealing with depression. They're dealing with headaches.

They're dealing with traumatic brain injury. Some of them get treatment. Some of them don't. Some of them start drinking. So you think CTE exists? It's 100% real. And UFC? 100%.

There's no doubt about it. If you're getting hit in the head, you're getting traumatic brain injuries. There's no doubt about it. I mean, you watch some of these fights that are so exciting. Look, for the majority, they're going to be fine, and they'll know when to get out. And there's modalities, there's different recovery methods, there's different things you could do to try to help yourself and to achieve a healthy life. And it can be done. But there's guys who don't do that. And there's guys who stay in too long. And there's guys who take those extra shots to the head when

they shouldn't. And there's guys who, they have bad training methods where they slug it out in training that's real common as well so they're they're going into fights already concussed they're going into fights with already taking too many shots that some guys lose their career in the training room because in the training room they just they're they're going to war They're beating the shit out of each other. They're going full blast. And then there's other guys that are training and fighting intelligently, and they have much longer careers. That's why I love what Conor's doing right now. And I just follow him on social, so I don't really know personally.

But it seems like he's very strategic about what he does now. Because he's got a lot of money, right? When you get money, you start to think about about things differently you don't have to grind like you used to but you also can bring a certain level of professionalism around what it is that you do so you know wrestling is kind of a primitive sport where you just get in the room bang it out for a couple hours do a bunch of sprints on the bike and you go home where i feel like guys like connor now or they're starting to they have a nutrition or a nutritionist or a dietician they've got wrestling coach boxing coach jujitsu

coach and then he the campus surrounded around him like he's not in a room with 12 15 other guys that are just like rolling around and you know with a single coach he's like i need one training partner for each discipline and that's it and i think that that's how it goes and that's how it should go you shouldn't have to take reps you shouldn't have to have people punching you right you shouldn't have to have people double-legging you you know into the wall and putting you down you should be doing all of the reps well you can't they're gonna have to do that too though you need mma sparring you need you need something that's boring but that's but control sparring because you need someone who's going to come into the room and say listen this is connor bro yeah

like you're not here to film this and become a star on the internet that's true but let me tell you something for us a hobby who's like one of the greatest mma coaches of all time for ross used to pay people to try to knock George St. Pierre out. He said, you have to put George in danger. He goes, you can't just let him think that he's going to be okay and let him coast. He goes, I want you to put George in danger. He's like, I will give you more money if you can knock him out. Yeah, I will give you a reward if you can knock him out.

I don't know if he told George. If George didn't know, I think that would be. He might have told him. That would be pretty cool i think he might have told him i'm not sure but i know that george is aware of it now and i know that it made george one of the greatest mma fighters of all time but not always they don't always like george all right it's gonna be easy light spar just have a good time make sure he's sharp he wouldn't lie and then he'd go to the guy like kill him no he wouldn't lie to him but his for us is very intelligent and for us's perspective was you have to you have to simulate danger you have to produce danger you have to this you're going to experience danger inside that octagon and it can't be a unique thing it can't be a foreign thing that you're not accustomed to so you have to reproduce real danger in sparring

so that when they get into the octagon their instincts are already i like that they're already razor sharp i like that but you can't do it too much because you don't want to get brain damage but you look at george now at 30 i think he's 37, 38 years old. He's lucid. He speaks well. He's great. He's super healthy. Well, he got out early too, though. Well, he did the right thing.

He felt his enthusiasm waning because he was overworked. He was tired. He fought so many times. He just squawked by with a real close decision to Johnny Hendricks. What's he doing now? Well, he's thinking about fighting again. He's not sure if he wants to. I think they were talking about trying to

set up a fight with him and Khabib Nurmagomedov. Now, if they could do that, I think George would come back. But I don't think George would come back. That's big, big money. Crazy. That might be the biggest fight in the history of the sport. The biggest, bro. If you're not even a fight fan, everyone knows GSP.

GSP was the original superstar. And he stays in shape. GSP never gets fat. He's a professional, man. He just posted a picture just a few days ago of him after a three-day fast. He's fucking shredded. What's he done in the last five, six years? Works his martial arts.

He's constantly training. He's constantly doing jiu-jitsu. He's like, I'm waiting for the right offer. Look him that's right guy just a couple days ago bro he shredded he always trains so when he fought michael bisping and won the middleweight three days of no water what's the benefits no no that's not what it is so i know he just drinks water yeah just three days but they said three days no water. No, that's ridiculous. That's an idiot. That's some dummy.

Bro, look at him. He's what, 38? I think so. I think he's 37 or 38. Damn, I want to look like that. He's shredded. In five, six years. Well, you know, he's dedicated to health and wellness,

and he's also dedicated to martial arts. Like, he trains because he wants to. Yes. He's been lurking, waiting for the right opportunity to present itself. Yes. Well, that's what he did with Michael Bisping. So why didn't he fight Conor? Well, he's too big.

George is too big? Yeah, George is big. How big is Conor? Conor legitimately should be fighting at 155 pounds. He won the title at 145. There's no fucking way in hell George St. Pierre is ever making 145 pounds. Yeah. He's much bigger than that.

He's tall, right? He's wide. He's a thick dude. I mean, Conor Haas fought at 170. He fought Cowboy at 170. But Cowboy's not really a 170. But it's Cowboy. He fought Nate Diaz at 170.

And Nate Diaz is not really a 170 either. These guys are capable of making 155. I mean, obviously, they weighed 170 when they fought. But I think Conor's— But you've got a guy like Kamaru Usman. You're like, you ain't messing with him. That's a different monster. Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. The big 170s. The real strong, powerful wrestlers. They're too big. And I think George is there. George is at that 170. I mean, look, maybe if Kamaru wins against Gilbert Burns, that would be a crazy fight, too.

That would be crazy. But I think the real big money is in khabib because it's a super fight khabib is undefeated he's i think he's 29 and oh he's dominated everybody he's the most spectacular example of a champion we've ever seen yeah i mean he just dominates that fucking guy just and like it's workman He's a monster. That's what I appreciate about Khabib is that he is very intentional and deliberate with his precision, like almost surgical in the ring. He just walks you down, punch, all right, I'm good. Well, the Gaethje fight really showed what he was made of because Gaethje has been able to chop everyone's legs apart,

and he was landing shots on Khabib. He was lost. And Khabib and khabib just kept chasing him down chasing him down which is crazy because i drank the kool-aid i'm like well damn maybe khabib is in trouble here maybe this is gonna be his well he was in danger but he wasn't in trouble well he was in a dangerous situation yes his leg was in trouble his left leg was getting kicked have you ever been kicked in the calf it's a crazy feeling i don't desire it's don't do it it's horrible it's horrible man it makes your like it's like a jolt like the the nerves gets it's such a sore area like when you get hit there you get hit there once or twice and you you lose a lot of your ability to move correctly a lot of times your

feet go numb and that happened to michael chandler in a fight once he got kicked low it happened to um henry sahudo against right michael chandler he couldn't even get his footing back i remember your nerves to stop working and your feet your foot drops it just like you can't get it to work and you try to step on it just gives out on you crazy i remember it happened to henry when henry sahudo fought mighty mouse in the second fight in the first round mighty mouse kicked him with a low calf kick and Henry's leg went numb there's nothing you can do about it it's a crazy kick well Justin Gaethje's the best at that he's the best at that and Khabib was chasing him down and Justin kept chopping at that leg and it was in a bad place I mean he he'd hurt him man but Khabib is such a fucking monster turned out after the fight Khabib was fighting with a broken foot.

So he was doing all that with a broken foot. They x-rayed his foot as a cracked bone. So that's why I agree with you, but mindset is the most important part of being a champion. Because Khabib, obviously, he's got a great body physically. He's physically very strong. He's very athletic. But there's a lot of guys that have that. It's the mind. The mind. The mind's everything. The mind's physically very strong. He's very athletic. But there's a lot of guys that have that. It's the mind. The mind.

The mind's everything. Mind's a powerful thing. Yeah. So that's why if you're building the perfect fighter, you have to build their mind first. That's everything. Got to build their mind. That's what custom model used to hypnotize Mike Tyson. He used to tell Mike Tyson that you don't exist.

The task exists. And he used to tell him this when he was 13 years old. I like that. Teach him how to break people down. It's not about you. You don't exist. The task exists. And he used to tell him this when he was 13 years old. I like that. Teach him how to break people down. It's not about you. You don't exist. That's just nonsense. It's going to get in the way.

The task exists. You have to break this man. I like that. I'm going to use that. It's heavy. You don't exist. The task. The task exists.

Jordan Burrows, we just did three hours. Flew by. This is dope, bro. Hey, my pleasure. Let me give a shout out to the Buffalo Bills, though. Playing well. Are you a football fan? Nope.

No, you don't watch? I don't watch any sports. My wife's from Buffalo. So I grew up in South Jersey, so everyone where I'm from are Eagles fans. And when I got married, met my wife in Buffalo, I'm like, damn, I want to be affiliated with that team. Her uncle Thurman Thomas played for the Bills. Is that a Bills Mafia t-shirt? Bills Mafia.

So I'm sure you've seen the Bills Mafia t-shirt? Bills Mafia. So I'm sure you've seen the Bills Mafia. There you go. New York State, Buffalo Bills, old school, new school. Great, great year in the playoffs. Won the AFCs for the first time in like 25 years. Something crazy. Something crazy.

And they're playing soon. Beautiful. Saturday. Well, listen, good luck in your match. Thanks, bro. It's either this week or next week, whatever it is. Yeah, we're going to make it happen. We're going to try to figure it out, make it happen. It's difficult during these COVID times, right?

It's difficult, right? It's wild. It's a wild time. It is. From tracing to – it's wild. All of it. I'm ready for it to be over. Well, thank you, brother.

It's been an honor. I really appreciate it. Thanks, bro. Appreciate you being here. Appreciate you. Good luck with everything you do. And seriously, think about what I'm saying. Yeah, man.

I got you. You could do great things i'm listening i'm coming for your recommendation do it wherever i go i'm like listen joe told me that i should jordan burrows ladies and gentlemen thanks bye everybody