The Joe Rogan Experience - #1600 - Lex Fridman

Episode Date: January 22, 2021

Scientist Lex Fridman researches human-centered artificial intelligence and autonomous vehicles at MIT, and is also the host of the Lex Fridman podcast.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day i had a surprise for you it didn't work out i had a suit and a tie and i was gonna come in dressed like you exactly yes full-on white shirt white shirt, suit, tie. Fitted? Yes, fitted. But the problem is my fucking shirt was at the cleaners. So then I tried to have some other white shirts that are like these really stretchy shirts that you can wear them if they're open. But if I'm trying to put a tie on, they literally don't fit around my neck. So I'm doing this and I'm killing myself. And then I'm like, well, maybe I'll leave it open.

And they're just. Dressing up like first day of school. Yeah. I appreciate it. I'm honored. I was going to mimic you. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know, remember Michael Malice? Yes. He actually, I did a podcast with him and he wore the opposite, which is a white suit and a white tie and a black shirt I mean he is sort of the epitome of the loving kind of troll that's like the ultimate troll he wore the exact opposite he got the exact

same haircut as me which I don't even know what that means exactly just cut your hair short yeah that's all it means but it was a magical moment that's what trolling at it's best does. It's like you feel loved. That's funny.

He's an interesting guy. Michael Malice is a very interesting guy. Because he's got some wacky beliefs that I don't subscribe to at all. Yeah, complete anarchy. No police. I don't think we should have police. I'm like, what world do you live in? You weigh three pounds and you don't even have a gun.

You don't even know police. Like, what are you you talking about but he's a brilliant guy brilliant it's uh it's interesting like i don't subscribe to a lot of his ideas but i think um he he's also always has a half smile when he's saying things yeah so you kind of never know i don't i don't think he means half the things he says really so i don't know he's he's uh he says. Really? So, I don't know. He's underneath it all, which is why I talk to him, which is why I consider him a friend. There's a really kind person in there. Yes. But he says things like, yeah, police is the enemy.

It's like, wait a minute. And you live in New York. So he plays with ideas. It feels like he's just somebody who's juggling with different ideas and having fun with it, not taking anything seriously. And that's really refreshing because in the best light, that's a fearless way to see the world. And also he's working on this concept of I think he calls it the white pill, you know, like red pill and blue pill. the white pill, you know, like red pill and blue pill. The white pill is basically, you know,

I think he's highlighting that for red-pilled folks that there's sometimes a cynicism about the future of the world, and the white pill is seeing the truth of the world but being optimistic about it and thinking, like, we can actually make things better. So not becoming cynical, not saying like, you know, globalists, the government is ultimately like power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's always going to be a bureaucracy.

It's always going to be greedy people who take power and take control. So that's like the cynical, the negative view. But the positive, the white pill view is that we can actually build a better world. I mean, he has ideas about how to build that better world that I don't agree with. What is his ideas? I'm not sure I've quite understood them, but because ultimately he's a counterpuncher, which is government, all government is bad.

So the idea of anarchism is that you're supposed to, in this emergent way, form groups and agree together how those groups should operate. I'm not articulating this. Isn't that like a local government? It's a local government. So his biggest problem is that we're born in this geographical space and are assigned to a particular government without having chosen it. So he wants to do exactly what we're doing now, but choose our government. Well, isn't that what happens when you move to a different state? I think so.

Different state, that's the whole idea. That's one of the reasons why I'm here. Yeah. You're an anarchist, bro. I guess I am. If you consider California the status quo, I'm an anarchist. That's right. This is the headline now.

The current. Joe Rogan says he's an anarchist. Current California. I mean, if rebelling against that form of government, draconian measures they put in with the lockdowns and then allowing people to camp everywhere. Yeah. But he also says, I think, that we're in a state of anarchy between different nations because you can choose to immigrate to a different nation.

Yeah. And then they operate. There's no, I think there's, you know, the UN and so on. There's agreements between nations, but they operate as independent entities. I don't know. And his idea is like remove as much as possible it's like libertarian plus plus like remove as much control from the government as possible so that's great until somebody robs you yeah i think so too i so this is the the capitalist view i think oh i don't know

i don't i don't want to misuse terms but the step back from the anarchist view is, you know, we should get government out of most things. But the violence thing, we should let government protect us from. So the military, the police, you know, and things like firefighters and all those kinds of things. I mean, that forms the fabric of society that can be stable and operate well. And we could do all of the amazing things in terms of building new businesses, doing science, doing all the kinds of entrepreneurship. Just everything that makes this capitalist United States of America possible. Like all the freedoms we enjoy. It, at least to me me feels like the violence thing has

to be removed off the table yeah yeah that's the biggest problem because with when you have violence you don't get anything done like societies didn't really form in the sense that we like we have now i would imagine until they developed agriculture in cities right where they figured out a way to put walls up and fortify them and keep the barbarians out and go okay i'm thinking about a thing it's called a wheel they start they're putting ideas together just relax write stuff uh write ideas down on paper yeah and we're talking about physical violence yes like literally barbarians. Not like calling you the wrong pronoun. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so, I mean, he, but I feel like, and Tim Dillon does this really well as well, is there's like a humor to it where you're almost taking down the powerful by not taking them seriously.

He's one of the best alive at it. Tim Dillon's one of the best I've ever seen. One of the best I've ever seen at making fun of things while pretending to be serious. Yeah. His YouTube is hilarious. He's amazing. I love that guy to death.

And he has a free pass because he's gay. So he gets away with so much more. And he doesn't seem gay. My wife doesn't even believe it. She's like, I don't even believe he's gay. She's laughing about it. She's joking. But he's just a one of a kind.

Yeah. He really is a one of a kind. Kamala has already arrested me. Not mad, though. Just enjoying the moment. His Twitter is a fucking... It's a work of art. I mean, it really is.

His Twitter feed's amazing. What did you say that Burt made a video of the homeless? It was on his Instagram. I'll see if I can pull it up. Bert Crusher? He was driving up Highland Avenue in Hollywood and was just saying, like, he wasn't showing the whole video during it, but he was, like, at a stoplight. And, like, there was tents the whole way up here.

And he was like, this is also a really nice tent. People want me to talk to Bert Krush because of this Russian story. Oh, hi, Bert. Look at Bert. The machine. Oh, it's in his Instagram story. That motherfucker, his stories will go on for years. He does them every 15 seconds.

It might even be deleted now. It's crazy. Productivity-wise, he's basically the Elon Musk of Instagram stories. Maybe he took it off because it's not showing up. Or it could be one of these. Is it? Well, there's so... There it is.

There's tents all the way up on Highland. People living on the side of the street. This is fucking insane. This is literally hundreds of tents everywhere. By the way, that's a nice fucking tent also. Those are two very nice tents. I wonder if the city's giving them out because we don't have a tent that nice. I mean, I'm not even joking.

Our tent isn't even that nice. Wow. That's a tiny image he showed. You know, you didn't get to see the real homeless situation, but Bridget Phetasy sent me a video when she was driving by Venice, and it's a minute and a half long of just straight tense as she's driving down the road. Just nothing but tense. Yep.

How do you put that genie back in the bottle, Lex? Well, this is – oh, you mean it's a slippery slope. Listen, I've been thinking about, you know, a bunch of tech folks are moving to Austin, right, in terms of starting businesses. So that's one of the questions they're asking, like, where is this headed? You're talking about the homeless problem. Well, the governor just today came out and said that if the city does not reimpose a ban on camping, that the state is going to step in.

Well, yeah. Because people are, there's safety concerns, People are openly defecating on the streets. There's, you know, it's not nearly as bad here as it is in California, but it's way worse here than I've ever seen it before. But, you know, homelessness is, it feels like that's a symptom, not the problem. Right. I mean, is that. It's hard to say because homelessness was horrific in San Francisco before the pandemic. Right.

And the concern is that when you are too lenient on the homeless folks and just allow them to camp wherever they want, shit wherever they want, they just do it. And if you don't put up rules, if you try to be progressive and open-minded, it's like they they'd like to have new words for them like the unhoused and shit like that and when you do that you open up the door for more of them to migrate there because there's like there was a video that somebody put up of them interviewing these homeless guys and like why do you like san francisco and they said first of all they give us food they give us money they they let us you know they're they're really loose they let us you know they're really loose they let us camp where we want and these guys had moved to san francisco to be homeless which is a problem but see just like you said that problem is tied up with the fact that a lot of people are struggling financially because of covid so it's like yeah it feels like trying to solve the homelessness problem is in direct tension with trying to take care of people

who are struggling well i think it shows that there's a problem with people losing a place to live and that the solution is not necessarily let them camp out anywhere they want i think there should be some sort of a step that the government takes whether it's to develop housing or to build something for them but when you let them just camp and shit everywhere then you ruin all the other spaces like the best way to keep the city intact and to try to help these people is to implement some sort of a program where you provide housing for them letting them just camp on the street that's chaos like now you've you've fucked up everything so this particular

state government just seems incompetent at solving this particular problem but it also seems to be not very good at solving some other problems right in terms of encouraging businesses to you mean california california sorry yeah well it's it's it's bad it's over regulated it's a crazy regulated state you know and it's also very high taxes and there's a lot of people that are recognizing that there's other places that don't have any state taxes like why would i stay in a place that's described it's they're they're telling you you can't work they're closing down businesses gavin newsom today is there's a lawsuit got filed by more than 50 San Francisco, Bay Area restaurants and bars trying to say, like, why are we closed? Like, this doesn't make any sense.

You can't just keep doing this forever. And some places are starting to wake up. My hope is that a lot of this is political, as gross as that sounds, and that now that Biden and harris are in that they'll open things back up and the mayor of chicago said this the mayor of new york has said we have to open things back up and i'm hoping interesting i'm hoping that they take this chance it could go the other way as well though right it's uh the other way is now that there is a Democrat in office, that they could see that as a path to pass further regulations and push this closed economy going to lockdown further. Why would they do that, though? Listen, I always thought it was a terrible idea.

The long-term consequences on the economy are going to be potentially orders of magnitude worse on the fabric of our society. So I don't know why they would do that. Michael Malice said, the devil on my shoulder. Okay, Michael's the devil. Wearing a white suit. Or the devil wears a suit and tie, right? Yeah. That's a badass.

I've been listening to that. How good is that guy? That guy's amazing. Culture wall. And your story, sorry, in a small tangent, your story that he hasn't been on your podcast because... He's working on a ranch. Like, as a fucking rancher.

This guy's legit. Like, we reached out to them. He's like, well, he's working on the ranch right now. Like, what is he doing on that ranch? He's a fucking cowboy. Like, a legit cowboy. Like, there's literally no more badass thing to do than turn down uh joe rogan experience uh appearance massive promotion he's like yeah i'd rather just rope

steers yeah yeah but the michael malice devil uh argument is that you know that's one way for the government to gain more control over the populace is uh the to fear mongers say that there's one way for the government to gain more control over the populace, is to fearmonger, say that there's a big problem, and that magnify the narrative around how big that problem is. And unfortunately, from my perspective as a scientist, to use scientists to say, look, scientists are saying there's a huge problem. Sort of use science as a tool of fear-mongering and then gain further and further control of the populace. That's the devil on the shoulder.

You have to have an incentive to do that. Like, why would they want that kind of control while also devastating the economy? They need the economy because they need tax revenue. If they're not getting tax revenue, how are they going to feed the military industrial complex? How are they going to feed the military industrial complex how are they going to feed all their businesses how are they going to feed the pharmaceutical industry like what all these people that finance their campaigns and all these banks that pay for them to speak after they get out of office where's the money coming from now if there's

no economy i don't think that i think that's like one of them doom and gloom q anon type deals yeah where people are thinking like this is they want to kill half the population. Yeah. No, I agree with you. Everything you said incentive-wise, it makes sense. I was really confused why we haven't done, for example, mass scale testing of everybody, which seemed like the antigen tests, which can be under a dollar to manufacture manufacture hundreds of millions of them at home testing of everybody is it under a dollar to manufacture yeah really now yeah so you can start april or may of last year start mass manufacture there's no reason we can't

do that and everybody starts getting tested at the the individual level, the accuracy is not perfect. But at the societal level, that's one way. If you get a positive test, you definitely have COVID. And so based on that, trusting the individuals, not tracking them, but trusting the individuals when they get a positive test that they will stay home. And through that process, we would have been able to open up the economy in the summer. Like Michael Mina, I think, from Harvard, people should go follow him on Twitter or wherever.

He's been screaming about this. Like, why the hell is FDA getting in the way of this? So the FDA doesn't like crappy at-home tests. They want expensive, nice tests. But the problem with expensive, nice tests, it's hard to manufacture them at that scale. So people should go read his stuff. He's an actual expert of this.

Do the crappy at-home tests have a lot of false positives? False. No, they have false negatives. so meaning if you get a positive for sure you have it is that true because we've had guys that got false positives with the rapid antigen test the rapid antigen test yeah i saw okay everything coming out of my mouth now is kind of crappily uh uh so you might be correct you need whiskey this is what you need i i some whitmire's texas single barrel come on son all right joe you want you want to drink some whiskey just to clear the mind like that sound that's the sound of bad decision making

about to come up um ice or no ice uh no ice please ah like a man i love it fucking russians savage people well definitely not vodka though because i i can drink whiskey in moderation can't drink vodka in moderation you just start going hard what is it uh we got some of that no no no cheers sir cheers good to see you man good to see you how long you down for uh anywhere from one week to five years you're so free yeah i love how you live man it's beautiful because of your podcast you can really do whatever you want whenever you want to do it it's kind of amazing it's's the Texas way. It is. The Russian slash Texas way. But I like Boston, too.

I'm afraid of Silicon Valley now. Everybody inside Silicon Valley, all my friends that work there, all the great entrepreneurs, all the people that work at big companies, Google and so on, say do not move here. Here's childlike, naive me texting, oh, what are the cool places to live? It's like all cabs do not move here. You know, here's childlike, naive me, like, texting, oh, what are the cool places to live? It's like all cabs, do not move. Wyoming. Get out now.

I don't understand. They don't actually provide good reasons. Like, the tax thing isn't the reason they provide. Well, it's crime. Elon told me 12 of his friends have been robbed. 12 of his friends have been assaulted and robbed there. Yeah. He's like, it's dangerous.

So culturally, the whole kind of defund the police culture is affecting the stability of the society. There's that, but there's also just rampant homelessness and people with mental health problems and drug addicts. And they need to fuel their problem. addicts and they need to fuel their problem you know there was a show where they uh parked cars in san francisco to see how long it took before the car got broken into and then they put you know surveillance camera to watch it and it was crazy you parked the car and then five minutes later people like looking around they would sit in front of it look around look around just pull out a hammer out of a bag smash and grab you just leave a bag in there so it looks like there might be something in the bag it it was crazy they watched they watched over and over and

over again people do this in a place where it's literally the highest real estate in the state and one of the most wealthy places on earth San Francisco is incredibly wealthy yeah and you have homelessness everywhere crime everywhere there's an app that you can get where you can track the human defecation throughout the city. Yeah. Why would you live there? Well, the question is, if you want to build in the tech space, if you want to build a company to do something cool, I don't care.

If with that little app or change the world, it's large scale thing where do you go right here baby austin texas come on son but for the longest time has been silicon valley right i'm trying to talk everybody cool and moving here fahim anwar is moving here one of the best comics in la awesome so uh yeah elon has moved here. So he's kind of the reason that's making me think, like, it's very possible that this becomes, in the good sense, where the crazy, the wild entrepreneurs move. So the tech, the cool Silicon Valley moves. It's very possible. Like you. Like you, Lex.

It's calling you. Yeah, yeah. Come on. I heard you ate at Terry Black Lex. It's calling you. Yeah, yeah. I heard you ate at Terry Black's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Terry Black's. Stopped you in your tracks, didn't it? Exactly like you said. First of all, it was amazing.

And then, of course, there's people who are like, oh, no. Yes, Terry Black's is amazing, but you should try this other place, so on and so forth. There's all kinds of great barbecue here. They're right. Franklin's is awesome. Look at that.

Woo! People are like, that's too dry. Okay, I get it. No, no, no, no. It is not too dry. That's a photograph, you fucks. Not only that, it's with an Android phone. How do you know it's an Android?

Because you're an Android guy. Yeah. You've committed to that platform. It's very admirable You don't give a fuck about that green text bubble Oh yeah, well try at Signal You and I had an extensive conversation At Signal

Like one message back and forth Well we could keep going But it seemed to be like we just text each other I don't mind green It's one of my favorite colors I don't mind the green bubble But I think it's a funny thing with people. I'm more invested in the Apple ecosystem, and I use AirDrop a lot amongst friends.

And I know Samsung has an equivalent to AirDrop now that's supposed to be pretty functional. Samsung Galaxy S21, the greatest phone coming out soon ultra ultra is the big one that's the good one yeah yeah phantom black looks good on you feel like i was sponsored to say this but uh i hope i was uh i hope i get a free phone i had a great review of the the ultra he makes it very exciting yeah he makes everything exciting he's great everything just looks super sharp and crisp and sexy just everything i just want to buy all of whatever he's he's so smooth yeah he's so smooth yeah he's so just relax he's um an android guy you know there's a lot of those tech guys that review things are android guys because you're constantly taking your SIM card out of one phone and putting it in another. I got an iPhone 12, and I tried to get it registered at Verizon.

It took an hour and a half. It didn't work. I bought it online at the Apple store. I got it delivered. It took an hour and a half to get it. They were like, we can't figure out how to do this. We might have to change your plan. I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ.

Finally, they got it. They got it up and running. I'm like, oh, it's great. It's different.'s different it's more square same fucking phone it's not much different right for what i do i mean i'm not playing games i'm just making phone calls and taking pictures the camera on the 11 was awesome camera on the 12 is awesome the next morning on my way to the fucking airport and it just stops working just completely stopped working wouldn't make phone calls i couldn't call verizon on it couldn't do anything it just it said please contact verizon and i'm like oh you sons of bitches so then i had to call them and i just reactivated my 11 yeah i have this fucking

brick of a 12 just sitting in my dresser hmm it's like the buying the treadmill that you never use or jamie and i were just talking about the ableton uh live push sorry what's it what is it yeah that's a little deep it's a musical instrument like uh tool so actually uh grimes uses that to compose for music what is it um it's a thing that uh so there's a recording software called ableton live and there's a push device where you can like tap it to do a beat like and you can like mix stuff, you can loop things and there's people online you can watch and they do like, they create like

incredible, yeah. Oh that looks dope that looks like a giant Simon Says machine. Doesn't it look like something you want to learn and use to create cool stuff? So I got it like two years ago what you make out of it is what you decide play melodies and chords in any key oh this is like a commercial just like the ad for it yeah

it does look pretty dope the well but the point is it's a symbol of all my failures in life because i've gotten has been sitting in a box just looking at me just like that brick of a phone just saying this is this is why you're a failure because you can't take three or four hours to read a fucking manual or tutorial or learn how to actually use this maybe a youtube video would get you well no it gets as i was talking to jamie is it gets you in a way it's both exciting inspiring and depressing because they're so good and they make it look so easy like look you can just tap a beat and you can start but when you actually like start to learn how to use it like able to live the software you realize there's all these buttons and you yeah there's there's all these things you have to learn like how do I even

record just the basic just even our conversation how do i record that and and then you have to realize there's like shortcuts you have to learn you basically have to sit down embrace the suck embrace the learning curve of saying okay on on monday i'm going to read this tutorial and i'm going to get it done and uh you know learn something new. And, you know, doing that alone is really difficult when nobody's really pushing you. I don't know if that's, that's a, that's probably a metaphor for a lot of things we fail to do in life is like always putting it off and putting it off and putting it off. Uh, something that actually will probably bring like me in this case, a lot joy i'm sure you're accurate right but you have to

you have to be a little bit less harsh on yourself because you're very productive the problem with you is you do so many things between jujitsu and working out and having fucking phone calls with david goggins where he talks you into things okay can i just talk about that for a second okay okay so this is why this you've told me before not to read comments but i do write comments on instagram and his he's he put a story out i think yesterday uh saying that he's doing the 48 mile challenge again four by four by 48 where you run four miles every four hours. And like a fucking idiot. I commented. I thought, like, nobody would know.

I could just, like, I said, I'm in. No! I wrote, I wrote, I'm in. And I thought I would get, like, positive, like, and then people would be like, oh, cool. Like, talk to me about it. And I could do it peacefully at home. So it's March 5th, I think, is when he's doing it, which is nice. He announced it down the line a little bit.

He calls me within seconds of me posting that. He's like, Lex, good to hear from you. Yeah, what's up, brother? Stay hard. I'm in. There you are. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Then he calls, and he's like. Let me me hear his video let me hear what he says started from the beginning all right that time of year again the second annual four by four by 48 for some of you who don't know what that is basically you run four miles every four hours for 48 hours some of you out here don't like running can't run you have bad knees bad hips bad ankles walk do whatever you can do you know in that period of time when you're supposed to be working out so that being said a lot of you out here did it last year is It was a huge success. Make sure that you have logistics set up. There's going to be times at night when you're running at 4 o'clock in the morning,

midnight, different times. The fucking boogeyman comes out at nighttime. So make sure that you have safety parameters in place. Run with somebody. Do whatever the fuck you have to do to keep yourself safe just like last year all right that's it this year I want to give away some items and I've been talking about a lot more but have some you know new shorts in stock so this young doing tons of giveaways for those of you who go above and beyond. And what that means is some people last year raised thousands of dollars.

This is all for charity. Tons of people got tons of people involved in the 4x4x48. Several things they did. Outside the box thinking to raise awareness for their causes, their charities, raise awareness for fitness, whatever it was. It was great to see that. Last year, I had nothing to give away. I just saw these amazing stories. I was being tagged in amazing stories.

Didn't have anything to give away. This year, that's a different fucking story. I have a lot of things to give away. This is like the nice version of Deogaga. It's the thoughtful version. This one here is wonderful. I think it's taking souls down the back. I also have this shirt right here

I've been giving away. It's a new stay hard shirt. Okay. So the thing is, he's like, why don't you come down and we'll do it together. So him and I are going to do it together. You're going to do it in Vegas?

Yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ. So you're going to stay for two days with him in Vegas? Yeah, with him. But this is not like... Jimmy Chigin's head. I feel like that's not... I mean, it sounds like fun, but that's not a good idea. That's not a good idea.

Trust me on it. Because you're not sleeping. So it's 48 hours of no sleep with David Goggins alone. Plus, he says, we're going to do a bunch of other crazy shit. Like extra shit. And then he suggested the kind of shit that would break me. Oh, my boy.

I was like, alright. Have you ever thought about joining the Navy Seals? No. I do not want to join the Navy Seals. Talk me into it. Who's going to carry the boat? I want to be in the boat. I don't want to carry the boat who's gonna carry the boat i want to be in the boat i don't want to carry the boat but that said i listen it's it's all fun it's pretty easy 48 miles is rough but that's why you can't learn that machine what do you mean that electronic music machine

that's why you don't have any fucking time but that that those are the demons you have to face that i'll be thinking about that electronic machine the whole time i'm running with them no but you know it's a good test it's a good test of like going to the limit it's the thing he talks about right whatever whatever that percent is 10 40 40 the that you know just take your mind to the limit and push further and he's a good person to deal with. How are your knees? Good. So I've never had trouble. Well, you know, knock on wood, never had trouble.

Really? All your jiu-jitsu? No knee trouble? I've never been injured in jiu-jitsu. That's amazing. Like really hard training. I think it was because of the wrestling background. I've always approached everything in training with the following thought. Like how can I train really hard like twice a day how can I put in a three hour four hour sessions

of training with killers without getting injured so don't you know make sure there's a strong frames like just working on all the stabilizers making sure to not want to the ego it's like silencing the ego just you know if somebody is being rough in a way or somebody is much better than me in a way that puts me in compromising positions, not in terms of being submitted, but in terms of just like putting pressure on some body parts that's going to break me. Like I can tell it's like a lead to injuries. I'll like I'll not have my ego and try to beat them up. I'll flow with it more. And just making sure I put in the miles versus, like, the wins, the individual wins along the way.

And so maximizing that allowed me to just be lucky, honestly, because you can be just unlucky. Yeah, I did. One of my worst injuries was unlucky. One of my ACL snaps was working out with a guy who's like really cool easy to work out with training uh we were i was uh passing his guard i was in half guard and uh my leg was sideways and he did a lockdown sideways so you know lockdown normally extends you out this way but it went that way right so it So it was like he locked me out that way. Yeah.

And it just popped. Because I was trying. It wasn't a wise position to be in, right? Right. Especially with the gi. Because there's no friction. There's too much friction, rather. I couldn't turn my knee over and slip out of it.

I really should have gotten myself in a better position and just used my shin and instep and tried to push my way out or tried some other methods to get out of the half guard. But I tried to sit sideways and I was going to just try to – and he extended his leg and I just – it was like a carrot. It didn't even hurt. It was crazy. I was like, ah! And then he goes, you okay? I'm like, I think so.

Hold on a second. And then I moved around a little. I'm like, it doesn't even hurt. But it just popped the ligament off. Yeah, I think the lockdown is a really perfect position. There's very few people in this world that can put me in lockdown because I'm so afraid of that position because of the injury. So I'm very cautious.

And if they do, I'm not, this isn't like a challenge, sorry, for me. It sounds like that. Obviously, there's a million people way better than me. And they can put me in lockdown. But I'm very careful to avoid that position because I know how compromising it can put the knee in. The knee, yes. And funny enough, as you know, usually the better the person, the more you can trust them to do the lockdown in a way that... So certainly, the more, you judge people.

I try not to judge people in regular life, but in jiu-jitsu I'll judge them harshly in a sense. I'll pick people who are not, like don't move in sudden ways that are just unexpected. Right. So the kind of people I love training hard with are the people who are exceptionally good, but they move in ways that are like... They flow. They flow, but are not like the Ben Askrens of the world that are funky.

That are creative. The names are slipping my mind of all the different jiu-jitsu people who are super creative. They kind of surprise you with their creativity i like like hadja gracie style you'd hate rolling with eddie bravo then i well it puts you in some weird spots right but i wouldn't have an ego in this you know there's like hard training where you're trying to win and trying to improve and there's training where you're like learning from each other and right with him I mean he's already like probably several words of magnitude better than me so there's no reason for me to like try to beat him mm-hmm so but like lockdown is a good example of a position that kind of scares me in terms of just the pressure

puts on the on the knees yeah he's got a very unusual game too like his students have a very unusual game like Richie His students have a very unusual game. Like Richie Martinez, Boogeyman, has this crazy guard game. And if you're not accustomed to someone who's got that level of flexibility, I've talked about Richie before, too, because he comes from a weird background. He's a breakdancer. And because of that breakdancing, he has incredible body control. Breakdancers, people that think of break dancers they don't necessarily equate it with like these incredibly athletic

people but my god the break dancers of today follow stance elements on instagram the break dancer yeah no it's a it's a page that's dedicated to break dancing it is wild we played one the other night with jordan burrows because jordan burrows is kind of making fun of break dancing i'm like dude watch this and there's this guy i forget his name i forget the guy's name the craziest guy his name is uh yeah that's guy that's b-boy tata as a russian i approve of the tracksuit you got to see this guy break dance though like the shit that he does. If you can go to stance element. Well, let's see what he does here.

Look at this. What the fuck? He's on one hand, bouncing around like he weighs two pounds. And he's a big guy. He's a big athletic guy. And he's doing freakish shit, man. Timing, balance, the general body awareness. That's incredible.

All of it but the strength he's his feet don't even touch the ground imagine how good that guy be good at jiu-jitsu or oh my god oh without a doubt but he's also like incredibly powerful like uh the stance elements video go to the stance elements page because there's uh there's a video of him in oh let's look at us that's hilarious um if you see this dance elements page though scroll down to the video of him with uh i think he's got i think he's got a red tracksuit on there too no scroll they post a lot of stuff this this might there it is right there watch this just watch this look at that what in the hell i mean dude and that there's a lot of creativity in that too so it's not just like gymnasts have athleticism that's also incredible for martial arts but

this has just like creativity and he's doing it to music and he's dancing to music i mean it's phenomenal there's another guy called uh b-boy pocket kim you ever seen that guy he doesn't even seem real like literally doesn't seem real the guy's abilities that's him in the upper right hand corner jamie right click on that watch this dude because this literally does not seem real look at that what it what what the man what the hell he's what's that what's that called oh look at this it's me talking about him i say he's the freak of all freaks that's hilarious but he really is i mean he's incredible that other guy b-boy tata is amazing as you funny that's incredible. And that other guy, B-Boy Tata, is amazing. That's you.

Funny. That's so funny. What's that style called where you're doing like a robot style, like pop lock type situation where you're – it's not break dancing. It's like – I think it's called pop locking. No? No, like where you're deforming your body in different ways. It's kind of like a robot dance but on steroids.

I believe it. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. It's like like you're making your body flow in all different kinds of i don't want to mis uh say it's hyphy but i think it's called hyphy and stylebender does hyphy yeah it's hy py hyphy let's see if i okay that's what but i think breakdancing is a is a better overall body awareness muscle activity for fighting, definitely. Well, a guy like that, a guy like whether it's Kim, B-Boy Pocket Kim, or whether it's B-Boy Tata, those guys, those guys can do anything. You'd have to just show them the moves. Whether it's kickboxing or jujitsu their body

control is just incredible the flexibility is incredible the explosiveness and the control the control when that guy is jumping up and down on one hand like you have to be incredibly strong they're stylebender yeah that is this it yep this is just uh overall body awareness and dance skills. Look at that. Look at him getting after it. He's going to fight Jan Blachowicz for the light heavyweight title. That is a very interesting fight. What do you, by the way, think about the Conor fight this weekend?

I'm very excited. Unfortunately, I'm going to be... I think I'll be getting off stage right around the time it starts yeah because we're doing these shows chappelle uh dave chappelle versus conor mcgregor well the problem is uh we picked a bunch of dates and dave does some dates with like music and he's like you know which dates you want to do so i I picked these dates, and I didn't even recognize that I picked the 23rd, which is the day of the fight. It's all right.

Who do you got? I do not know. I do not know. Always. I do not know. I think that Dustin has gotten far better, and Dustin is much more durable at 155 pounds. But that said, Michael Johnson KO'd him at 155 pounds.

Michael Johnson hits very hard, and he caught him with a perfect shot that could legitimately knock out most 155-pounders. But he KO'd Justin Gaethje. He beat Max Holloway, which, especially when you look at Max Holloway's performance this weekend. That was a crazy, incredible performance last weekend. Maybe the best performance I've ever seen. Against a guy who, in Calvin Kaner, is just a straight-up assassin. Yeah. Yeah, those numbers were crazy.

I saw that you put up the numbers. When I watched that fight, it didn't feel like that dominating of a performance, as the numbers indicate. It was dominating, but what is it, like a record for the most? Most strikes landed ever. And here's the crazy thing. Most strikes thrown and most strikes landed. But here's the crazy thing. Most of the time when you see a lot of strikes landed, it's a ground fight.

Someone's on top of the guy and beating him up and holding him down for five rounds. But with Max, it's all stand-up. He's insane. We think that Conor said that he'll knock knock out for you in the first 60 seconds well you know he's probably putting that poise head you know you got to always think Connors playing mind games he's being really nice I saw he's really respectful of the he's donated some money to the poor your charity yeah yeah sure what it is but so there's like a lot of love

back and forth I know it's weird it is. So there's like a lot of love back and forth. I know. It's weird. Friendly Connor. Friendly Connor is a different Connor. It's the Russian in me. I love Khabib. I know he's a fascinating human being.

Fascinating human being. I hope he comes back and fights for Connor. But what if Dustin wins? Is he compelled to fight Dustin again because that was a close fight that was a good fight yeah there was a moment in that fight where Dustin caught him in a guillotine where I was like whoa

like that is tight Dustin has a very good guillotine but Khabib got out of it that's the problem with people who are undefeated it's like where's the ceiling because maybe Khabib wasn't going or you know maybe that's people who are undefeated. It's like, where's the ceiling? Because maybe Khabib wasn't going. Or maybe that's how he stays undefeated.

He gets that close to defeat because he's fighting world-class fighters. But his will and his ability is just enough to pop that head out and keep smashing you and eventually tap you. Yeah. head out and keep smashing you and eventually tap you yeah but you gotta admire the man who's uh so khabib is talking about what like agriculture like farming mass i don't know if you were paying attention to this is he's he's talking like a businessman but a businessman not like talking about like tequila or uh like new clothing line or maybe doing a podcast or something like that. I don't know. He's talking about actually building farms and honoring the culture of his people in the kind of way,

the businesses that they build, honoring the dreams that his father had and his mom has. So that's pretty badass. He's an amazing person. Amazing in many ways, but also complicated, which is really interesting. I'd love to see how that, like, wine or vodka or whatever, I know he doesn't drink, ages. I wonder, because he's been so, so, so focused on fighting.

You know, you have the Bovasi, Asetiev. I've talked about him before. He's from that culture. They became more and more philosophical and poetic and so on. So I think Khabib will be a good guest on this podcast in like 20 years. Well, his English is much better now. Yeah, it's really good. I would have him on any time he wants.

You know, we first talked about it a long time ago, but he was struggling with his English. But his English is much better now. Yeah, it's really good. I would have him on anytime he wants. You know, we first talked about it a long time ago, but he was struggling with his English. But his English is excellent now. He can talk really good. I'm going to smash your boy. Well, his English is so developed around talking a little bit of trash in MMA. I don't know how good his English is developed in terms of being philosophical for three hours in a podcast or thoughtful about life. Oh, I think he'd be fine. I think't know how good his English has developed in terms of being philosophical for three hours in a podcast or

thoughtful about life. I think he'd be fine. I've seen him speak in interviews. I think he's fine. If you need a translator, my Russian is pretty good. Dude, I had Yoel Romero with Joey Diaz.

With Joey Diaz. That worked out. That was incredible because his English is pretty good still. It's not bad. He can still talk. And Joey adding the stories, that's a fascinating coupling. That's one of my favorite conversations,

the going back and forth. Very interesting. It's music. Yeah, well, you know, they know so much about that Cuban culture too. They know so much about each other. Yeah, I think you know, they know so much about that Cuban culture, too. They know so much about each other. Yeah, I think about the translation. He did it masterfully.

He really did, yeah. No, Joey speaks fluent. Right. Oh, both languages. Yeah. Yeah, I think about that with, obviously, Russian. So I have the unique possibility to speak somewhat English and Russian pretty well. It's like, who can I be a Joey Diaz for?

Khabib. Well, Khabib is already pretty good. Oh, yeah. I mean, here, let me do the pitch. Hi, Khabib. If you ever want to come on the Joe Rogan experience and need a translator, no. I'd love to do it.

I'd love to just sit silently and translate. I don't think he needs a translator, though. He doesn't. That's the problem. Yeah. Stop learning English. Hello, you. Yeah, exactly.

He's not. Yoel is, you know, his English is much more limited. Yeah. But it also has an art to it as well. Oh, yeah. Just the simplicity of it. You know, just like Joey Diaz, who mispronounces half the things he says. He does it on purpose, though.

He does it, okay. Kind of, sort of. He calls Khabib, Kala-Beeb. Yeah. But the result, result with Yoel is like it's almost a caricature of the superhero fighter. He's built like he probably has one of the most intimidating builds in mixed martial arts. You think so? Who else?

Yoel. Yoel's got the most intimidating build, for sure. Ever. Then there's the heavyweights, right? Francis Ngannou. Francis Ngannou, right. He's just all around terrifying. Yeah.

Yeah. But Yoel doesn't even look like a real person when you meet him. He just doesn't look real. He's so big, it doesn't look real. He's apparently going to fight light heavyweight in bellator what's light heavyweight 205 205 yeah i think he's going to move up to 205 he's so big you know that's the struggle to get to 185 at his age i believe he's 44 now which is crazy he's just completely shredded at 44. Like, full six-pack, no body fat.

Looks like a Greek god. Doesn't look like he's aged a day in all the years he's been fighting. I don't think he's ever talked about diet or anything like that, right? Whatever! Yeah, exactly. I eat Cuba food! I mean, I don't know what he eats, but, I mean, he's got to be eating hard work. He's got to be eating fairly clean.

Look at him. He's in a cryo chamber laughing and smiling. I've never seen that guy. He's like the polar opposite of me. He's always happy. Yeah. Yeah, he's always happy and smiling. And I'm glad you, another guy who's is Burroughs, Jordan Burroughs.

I'm glad you had him on here. Oh, he was amazing. He's a special, special human. Well, when you're that kind of an athlete and also a wrestler, like those guys, they don't get a lot of accolades. They don't get a lot of press. They don't get the attention of the media, of the love of the crowds. It's a different world.

attention of the media of the the love of the crowds it's it's a different world they do it for the love of wrestling and the love of competing in one of the most difficult physical pursuits known to man yeah and that that makes it just like he was saying it makes it more i don't know money almost gets in the way i know it's a horrible thing to say that it's people should get paid. I know what you're saying. Putting their body on the line. But when you don't get paid, which is what makes Olympics special,

I think, you know, you don't get, especially in the early journey, you don't get paid at all or much. It makes it special. It makes it so pure about the sport. And wrestling represents that,

that amazingly well. I talked to uh so jordan borrows is this uh badass new talent i talked to dan gable i don't know if you know who that is sure of course yeah he uh they offered him up for the podcast i would love to have mom but yeah i want to do it in person did you do it remotely no in person yeah i flew down to iowa oh wow it was i stayed with him so I thought is that up yet oh yeah I just uploaded people today uh no no uh like a month ago okay people should I actually re-uploaded it because uh I I was so sad I never I never care about views or listens and so on so it's good that we're mentioning it uh please go there check out dan gable because i was so sad

that it only got not much views relative to others and i was like this is one of the most special humans in the world yeah his story is crazy too but how he became that dedicated and focused when his sister was killed when he was 15 yeah raped and killed and it was just uh so the rest his wrestling brought the family together. And just, I mean, you couldn't write a better script. Because he went undefeated until his last match in college. And he lost his last match in college against the person he should have beat. Because he took a lot of stuff, you know.

He let himself get distracted. And, of course, a guy who's never lost losing, that does something to you, that he went to another level. And then he won the Olympic gold medal without letting up a single point, just domination. And then coaching-wise, he then went to Iowa and coached. I think he's the most winningest coach in NCAA history or, like, up there and just taught this whole culture of just domination, which is tough in this new – I mean, he struggles with this now.

Obviously, he has daughters and family, so he's, like, softened up a little bit. There's still a madman in there. Like, he has a shed, and he goes in the shed, and there's demons in there. He works out in the shed, right? Yeah, yeah. Still, he has videos of it. It's crazy.

Even as an older man. He doesn't. Trains very hard. And I think they build the shed, so he's like, in order to maintain my marriage, I have to separate those two worlds. I think he's got fake hips and fake knees now. Fake everything.

Yeah. Should shoulders as well uh i don't know about the shoulders but i love his the what was that oh oh it's uh here it goes this is his shed shed gym there he is yeah i mean he's he's all busted up and he still trains very hard but uh he's got hip replacements i think he's got knee replacements as well did you ask him about those uh no not about and not about those i was so focused on kind of um his mindset he's basically david goggins before david gogg, which is just this mindset. I remember he said that, I've always wanted to train so hard that they would have to carry me off, you know, like be near death. They would have to carry me off the mat.

And he's never succeeded. And he was proud of his daughter because she's a swimmer. And she passed out during a swim meet in the pool, and he was proud of her that she succeeded where her father failed. Jesus Christ. So that drive, I mean, what can you say about that? The thing is, I don't know how often you're in the Midwest, in like that kind of Midwest. So I also saw Tom Brands, who's the current Iowa coach.

I spent a day with him i spent a day with uh uh dan gable and like i wanted to stay there forever the family feeling yeah just the love like i don't it's a very you know we're talking about california with the homeless and all you forget you forget how like good humans can be to each other like uh everybody in like new york or even boston or california they're busy they got a thing going on they go to the next thing and so on here they're they're just set back they don't know who the hell i am this was so this was recorded two years ago i was like sitting on it not i had demons around it okay uh what kind of demons around it i felt like i felt i didn't do as good of a conversation as i could have i felt like i failed one of my heroes i don't know i

i don't know so whatever but i was the the what made you change your mind uh like uh a bunch of the iowa folks non-stop messaging me like where the fuck is the video little bitch uh but and he was really he was really nice to me uh but there there's a there's a both a love in that family atmosphere and a love within the focus that they've had so for for so many years this is one of the magical things i experienced that made me even further believe that family can be beneficial for success is that they're all in on this effort that dan had to win the olympic gold to just succeed as a wrestling coach just this whole life they get it and they love him for it and they kind of embrace it and there's like this family atmosphere like what they did at tom brands is the same uh olympic gold medalist to the coach of iowa another guy who's just insane

he we sat down on the couch and just watched these like documentaries about people being badasses like mountain climbing just overcoming shit as a as a family thing as a family all together and they've invited me like a nobody and i don't know i've never felt that before and since i think because i don't go out of midwest very much and it just felt like home i don't know there's something to be said for that kind of life the the there's a different way of life and uh like my good buddy john lives in uh john dudley he lives in iowa and uh just different kind of people out there no twitter no instagram no oh he doesn't have that no no i mean there might be something that somebody does for him but it's just small town

life small town life yeah there's good and bad you know right there's a lack of nuance there sometimes well definitely all trump supporters there oh yeah at the time yeah what do you think that is why do you think that is because here's a there's a here's a narrative that i don't like and it's the uh trump supporters are all racist you know i don't i don't like that narrative. I don't think it's true. And I think it's too simplistic. And I think there's a lot of people that don't like a lot of what Democrats are pushing.

Whether it is, whatever the variables are, whatever the things are that they don't like about the Democrats. It doesn't mean they're racist. This thing keeps coming up over and over again like you can just say it you can just say it and that trump equals you're supporting racism you support biden it means you are you're you're the future you're progressive and it's a weird uh it's a weird narrative that is very polarizing to all the people that voted for Trump that aren't racist, that just, they, they don't like a lot of the things that Joe Biden stands for in terms of his politics and the way, you know, he,

the way he was with the Obama administration, the way the Democrats have been throughout the election. There's a lot of, you know, they're allowed to have their opinions. And I think we, we run a real dangerous risk in this country of separating people, like good versus evil, and not just respecting people's differences and differences of opinions. It's a different kind of discrimination. You know, it's an intellectual discrimination. It's a cultural discrimination.

It's a weird way of chastising people that don't share your ideas and in terms of white supremacists or racists we focus on both the left and the right on the extremes on the ridiculous examples of a tiny point zero zero one percent of the people like with uh with the violence in the capitol you somehow equate that you know some of the people that uh stormed the capitol are somehow equivalent to the 70 million or whatever that voted for trump right that that that kind of equivalent and the same is done on the other side everybody's uh it's sort of the you know the 80 or whatever million that voted for Biden are all social justice warriors and they hate America. They hate the flag. They hate the flag.

I mean, one of the things that I do does bother me about sort of the, I don't know, is it the left or something, is not loving this country unapologetically. I mean, criticizing, but just loving the incredible experiment that this is. And I think what I felt in terms of Dan Gable and so on, the nature of their support for Trump was, they were not like rah-rah Trump. It's just they're more like rah-rah America. Rah-rah America. The flags everywhere yeah and it's not it wasn't also

like naive or delusional support for america like everything america does is right it's more like this is an incredible country and i'm proud to be here and not this is not beyond criticizing and so on being against wars and so on but just just being able to say, I love America. Every time I say I love America, I get, I get private emails is like that private emails and messages. So most public messages of support from Trump people. I knew you'd love Trump. It's like, why does saying I love America equate to, I love Trump. It doesn't. It's weird. It's weird.

You could just love this country and be skeptical of all leaders that attain power. Anybody with power, I think, deserves careful scrutiny. And Trump is certainly one of them. Biden is certainly one of them. But you can still love this country. That's why I think people that immigrate to this country can appreciate even further, to be honest, because it's like, it can be really shitty elsewhere. Another way to do that is just by studying history. That's too much work.

Too much work. But yeah, I mean, coming from Russia, I mean, there's beautiful things about Russia, too, like culturally speaking, in terms of just, like, in the struggle of the war. I would say it came from the wars, the music, the art, the poetry, the writing, the science that came from the World War that impacted Russia way more than it did the United States, the World War II. I mean,

tens of millions of people died. China, Russia, Europe, obviously, just they had to for a century struggle with the biggest existential questions of like good and evil, of losing most of your family to unjust slaughter or starvation in ukraine in the 1930s like i mentioned before my grandmother survived the uh something that people don't talk about they say that hitler is evil and so on they don't often highlight the evil of stalin there's not enough talk about just this the fact that he imposed uh just things on the people without any consideration of the suffering that that causes. So millions of people died from starvation. Starvation, cannibalism, people eating their children.

Yeah, it's crazy. If you read the depictions of it, I've read some stuff that I couldn't continue. I couldn't finish because it's so horrific. You know, you should have Dan Carlin back on the podcast, by the way. I would love to. And you, he's been, he's like, I don't know. I don't know what's a good metaphor, but he released an episode now like once every year.

And it's always like an exciting, it's like Christmas or whatever. As a Jew, I feel weird saying that. What is he doing most of the time now? Working on the podcast. So he releases his one episode once a year. Well, he doesn't. So he released, I want to say, three or four episodes this year. So it's been a productive year.

You mean 2020, right? 2020, sorry, I apologize. Isn't that crazy? What we do is not what he does no it's really rude to call what we do a podcast and call what he does a podcast yeah but he has two and i recommend people listen to he has two podcasts one is hardcore history and one is common sense yeah he shut down common sense for a while because he felt too polarized by the political climate right but he released an episode, People Should Listen.

One, he got a lot of shit for that was a little bit I think critical of Trump, but not between the lines, not directly, but he got shit for that before the election was like staring into the iceberg. Basically worried. He's the opposite of me

in this level of optimism. But he was worried about where this country's headed and he released a new episode I think Garbage In Garbage Out about the basically making a case for centrism for center left center right in this country as opposed to

extremes it's poetic it's beautiful people should listen to it it's done with the same kind of care that he does with the hardcore history he is uh but he did release one extra hardcore history he inspired me to um you mentioned what we do he inspired me to try to uh do a solo thing uh like an episode on um on hitler on uh the rise and fall of the third reich so i've i read a book called uh the rise and fall of the third reich it's this huge volume i recommend uh people read it it it tells the story of how hitler came to power and it tells the story from the perspective

of the person who was there so it was written in the 90 uh i want to say 60s and 70s by a person who was a journalist that lived through it and it's just it's one of the best books on the entirety of the whole the third reich project the how evil came to be and so i've been trying to for the last two months to do an episode and i i think it's going to take another like year because it sucks and it's hard it's hard work it's going to take another, like, year. Because it sucks. And it's hard. It's hard work. It's fascinating. Yeah, to put together it the way he does. Yeah, the way he does.

Very, very difficult. And he's not, he calls, he doesn't call himself a historian. So he's got, everybody's got demons. His demons are, like, the historians that criticize him for getting something incorrectly. So he feels like he's never going to live up to the accuracy required to uh sort of be respected by the academic historians there's also a problem with the academic historians don't like the fact that he's famous for that of course that's always there's a lot of ego involved in anything academic right yeah but he's a storyteller and he's a masterful storyteller and he's good at abandoning

that that stance you know and saying you know being self-deprecating and saying he's not a not a historian yeah so he's obsessed with uh Alexander the Great he wants to do a whole series and Alexander the Great which is probably one of those badass sort of conquerors conquerors in history I think Tyson was obsessed with Alexander the Great yeah Genghis Khan too so obviously he did an amazing job with Genghis Khan. That Wrath of the Khans is the greatest historical thing I've ever listened to in my life. And eventually he says he wants to try Hitler. But that one is, I struggle with that one.

Because I think it's the most useful to understand because it's so modern. It's useful. I feel like Hitler is a really interesting person to study in the context of Stalin as well, of communism, of fascism, the economic systems, how depression in the United States leads eventually to conflict and violence, how a charismatic leader can take control of a populace. There's so much about human nature that you can learn from there that feels more directly relevant to us now than maybe even like Alexander the Great. It just feels like there's a lot of lessons.

What was the criticism about the Trump episode? The Trump episode? Steering into the iceberg, I think the episode is called, I think the nature of the criticism was that Trump magnified the division, which ultimately shut down the ability of people of having nuanced conversations

and to be able to reason and whenever you destroy reason you're not able to do what uh you're not make it able to make the decisions that kind of keep this country great you know to uh you're not able to think clearly grounded in a deep, real, humble understanding of reality. You're more focused on the division. So you construct sort of narratives about the other side, that they're evil somehow, and you go into this battle. This isn't just Twitter. This is everywhere. And so his argument was that this kind of process,

once it gets going, you're going to have a charismatic leader that takes over like trump or somebody else that then is going to make it worse and worse and worse there's too much incentive to make it worse and that's going to ultimately lead us to destroy this nation that was great it's a different kind of mania than what grabbed Germany when Hitler took over it's a different kind of mania because of social media and because there's just there's too many too much information there's too many competing ideas for it to be the same sort of situation but I think people were really worried because that what happened with hitler in world war ii is we would like to think that's outside of what's possible today but i don't think we

really believe that i think deep down in our hearts we know that a charismatic leader with all of the wrong intentions, with all of the right things lining up in terms of the economy falling apart, in terms of the lack of patriotism in general or a feeling of insecurity by the nation and then all sudden they get they get exhumed they get risen from the dead by some charismatic person who can talk people into doing wild shit and i think we saw a little bit of that with the storm in the capital when he said you have to be strong it's a show of force. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Like those words, and there's a real question of whether or not those words were inciting and whether or not what he did was illegal. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, obviously. But the rhetoric, that kind of rhetoric, like you have to show strength. What exactly did Trump say? Because he said something along the lines of you can't be weak. You have to be strong. You have to show they need to show a force or something like that.

Yeah, that's a really good point because you have to read his words exactly. Because every time I read his words on paper, they don't sound as dramatic as i think as they're being reported on right sometimes you gotta like look at it again well you also have to speaking of hitler you have to listen to the the delivery too and i don't think i think people should uh i think bbc did a really nice program on hitler on the charisma of hitler he had way better meth the the drugs are just the best the nazi germany had the best there's a really good book on uh the drugs that fueled the nazi regime i feel like damn it i wish i remembered the title but it's a book entirely about all the drugs that they loved that fueled that entire war the entire regime and uh it's it regime. And it's probably, we don't talk about it often,

you could probably attribute most of the Nazi regime to just really good drugs. A lot of it, legitimately. One of the thoughts, there was apparently, God, I wish I remember who told me this, but there was a moment where Hitler was supposed to meet Mussolini, and he was apparently just like broken down. He was completely exhausted.

I can't remember. Jamie, do you remember who brought this up on the podcast? I tried to look it up before and I couldn't find it. So I don't remember who told us this story. Someone told us a story where Hitler was going to meet Mussolini. And Hitler was just beyond exhausted. And they pump him full of testosterone and cocaine. They injected cocaine into him and testosterone,

and he meets Mussolini, and he just starts ranting. Meets a fucking... He just fucking corners him and coke talks at him for like five hours. And Mussolini was ready to back out of the war. Mussolini's like, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? And Hitler just fucking berates him until he gives up and he goes along with it well so there's a really

interesting relationship with mussolini but mostly he was always on board he was like but can we just not do this whole thing you're doing like do we need to go to war but he was there were kind of buds uh and he was able to convince him So that's an interesting set of conversations that people should look at. The really interesting set of conversations is between Hitler, Chamberlain, so between Hitler, Britain, and France. And my favorite part is when it was France, Britain, and Czechoslovakia, so in the very early days. And Hitler was just, it's clear to me,

there's an element of like Jeffrey Epstein style smoothness and charisma that in the room he was able to convince people that he ultimately wants peace. And at the same time, there's this moment that really is so dark. It kind of haunts me. I'm not sure exactly. You know, therey epstein thing's a weird comparison because eric weinstein says jeffrey epstein wasn't smooth at all uh i know that's what eric says eric is far smarter than the average human being far smarter

to the point where he's not buying anybody's bullshit and he met met with Epstein, and he said right away, he's like, well, this is a construct. He's like, he's an actor. This is a construct. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He thought it was 100% bullshit. I love Eric, and he is indeed brilliant, probably way smarter than me,

but he's also flawed. No. Like all humans are. What? And I disagree with him on that one i well listen did you meet jeffrey epstein no but i've met a lot of people who met him who did you meet that met him uh well just the mit so all the scientists so all like everybody met him this is the dark thing all the scientists met him let me help you you out here. Here's the difference. Here's one of the differences.

First of all, Eric has gotten laid. It's happened before. He probably got laid a lot when he was younger. Just to clarify, people, I have also gotten laid. That's not what Joe is referring to. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about a lot of these scientists. A lot of these scientists

that is their kryptonite. It's not a coincidence that this guy allegedly it's not a coincidence this guy allegedly involved a huge part of the scientific community in this crazy thing where he's got a fucking island and he ships off these brilliant minds over there allegedly and introduces them to a lot of these ladies. Allegedly. Listen, that is the kryptonite. I meant allegedly referring to the kryptonite of sex being a

kryptonite for scientists. For dorks. For dorks. Listen, you're not always disagreeing on this. Disagree? There's no disagreeing. I don't think that we can put all scientists in the group of dorks, but yes, there's a lot of dorks. No, can't put Eric in there.

That's why he saw through the bullshit. I don't know. Listen, that's a little bit... I hear what you're saying. That's conspiratorial, I think, because to say... There's many elements. I think what Eric says, which is like he was just a tool of something bigger, a tool of something bigger is that's a problem to me because it removes the responsibility of evil from an individual and saying that there's some other evil beside in

in the darkness it's it's possible no no no no no no no he's saying that he's a part of the intelligence community and that's that's actually been reported on do you know that when he was arrested the initial arrest and when they he was given a very lenient sentence, one of the guys who was involved in that case said it was above my pay grade, and that I was told he was a part of the intelligence community. Now, the word had always

been that he was either a Mossad agent or someone along those lines. Now, if you have some of the most brilliant minds in the world, and you want to compromise them, and you want and somehow or another get them entangled in your world there's two great steps i think you need some more of that little fella i was gonna say you want to be i thought you could see yourself a man you're drinking we're talking about not sufficient already drank it i finished i know i finished one before you, pussy. We should have another one. Okay.

What I was saying is, if you wanted to compromise, cheers, sir. Cheers. Good to see you, man. Good to see you. Legitimately. Really. Really good to see you here. Because I tried to talk you into moving to Texas.

There's two ways you would compromise the scientific community. One of them being money, right money So he gives them money, funding Helps them, millions of dollars Donated millions of dollars to Various projects, various things they're working on To women Bring all these scientists together Bring these brilliant guys together

With the promise of Money for all their projects they're working on And then you bring them to an island. And they say, hey, everything's fine here. Don't worry about it. You know, I got a fucking temple that's painted like the Jewish flag. Israeli flag. I have faith that scientists have more integrity than that, but...

But it's not a matter of integrity. Like, everything was above board. If they don't know what he's doing, and they're innocent, right? They haven't done anything wrong, and he's giving them money and taking pictures with them just simply by taking pictures with him they're they're oh they're compromisers yeah yeah i see okay i thought you meant like they say there's a beautiful young lady here and then she was tasked with uh escorting me around to show how wonderful texas All you have to do is have photographs with you and this beautiful young lady.

The compromise. Yes. Now, I do not know what happened, obviously, because I wasn't there. But I would imagine that if he was really a part of the intelligence community, there was probably a directive. There was probably something

that they were working on to try to get these people to go along with whatever the fuck he was doing. But say to me that those are both different flavors of evil both of them are not good but okay so but the intelligence community has always done that they have always compromised people with sex and they've always compromised people with money is that this is a standard you know i've directly talked to people who were in the cia who would describe methods that they would use to compromise individuals wait so is this could the scientists have done something to avoid it it's hard because if they don't know right they're they're promised funding

and then you have other scientists that are also going to be there hey this guy's going to be there hey you got that guy this guy won you know this prize and he's going to be there and this guy's gonna be there hey you got that guy this guy won you know this prize and he's gonna be there and this guy's from mrt he's gonna be there and you're like well that'd be a fun party yeah you know let's go should i bring my wife if epstein is that like why so there was i guess actually eric makes this argument is like the whole thing that uh jeffrey epstein was a pedophile was actually a negative in that sense for the, if he is a part of the intelligence community. You know what I think? The fact that he's a criminal, sorry to interrupt.

Yeah, no worries. The fact that he's a criminal is a negative. I interrupted you. I think it is a negative, but I think when you're involved in that much depravity, I think you can get compromised. I think it's like a DEAH and it becomes a drug dealer you know i think when you're around darkness all the time i mean that happens a lot where undercover cops become drug dealers just happens they they live in that world for too long and it just gets in their veins well not saying that he wasn't

initially to begin with but i mean who fucking knows we're we're we're throwing a lot of speculation out there but still so i tried to sort of defend i have faith in scientists having integrity but the getting laid thing is a thing. Like, I found myself not being affected by, like, I really don't like strip clubs and money. I'm not affected by those things. I've actually been attacked in the past for, like, who is your funding source? Because I've been supportive of some of the things that Tesla has done. And, like, asking, anytime you're supportive of anything they ask like what's what's your funding you gotta stop reading comments these aren't comments yeah i haven't now ted actually

tattooed that on whatever no this is from like more like legitimate science i i i ignore it legitimate scientists have attacked you for defending Tesla? Not attacked, but, well, yes, yes. Because the argument is that they are creating a product that's deployed out into the wild that can potentially be dangerous. You mean auto drive? Autopilot, yes. Yeah. So there's a lot of criticisms of naming that product like autopilot or now it's called full self-driving but do you think that they're like the argument for that would be if autonomous vehicle driving is ultimately one day far safer and most people believe it would be don't you believe it'll be far safer than just

manual human operations of vehicles it It's complicated, but yes. Most likely. If you get to 50 years from now, 30 years from now, how the fuck do they think it's going to get there without implementing it? What do you think? It's going to be implemented completely theoretically and not in the wild?

Can I try to lay it out just real quick? So I don't know if you're familiar. There's a place called Phoenix, Arizona. And there's a there's a place called phoenix arizona and there's a company you used to be google self-driving car they're now called waymo that they have deployed what is an autonomous vehicle uh in phoenix that you know it's like an uber app you can order it and you can deliver deliver you or drive you to a bunch of different locations in phoenix so it's basically like Uber. No driver.

No driver. So this is the key thing. There's not a driver sitting there not doing anything. There's not a human not doing anything there, supervising. There's no person in the vehicle. It's trippy. I've gone there just to try it. Yeah, I did it.

It's trippy. It'll freak you out. They're in the back seat? In the back. You're They're in the back seat? You're sitting there in the back seat and letting some asshole robot turn the steering wheel for you. And then, like, what is that thing? No, these are just, like, some generic, some crappy. Well, all due respect, it's some minivan type of car.

It's great. It's wonderful. Whatever. This is it? Oh, my God. This is madness. But when you're in there and it turns the steering wheel, it's like, what if it takes me to my death? Well, who's manufacturing these vehicles?

What is that? It looks like a Chrysler. Yeah, it might be a Chrysler. That's right. It looks like the steering wheel looks like a Chrysler. Is that correct? Yeah, I think it's a Chrysler Pacifica. Is that what it says, Jamie? I have no idea.

You're right on the Chrysler. I think it's Chrysler Pacifica. Yeah, okay. Chrysler Pacifica. I didn't even know Chrysler made a driverless car. No, no, no, no, no. This is really important. This is a non-driverless car that Waymo then converts completely.

They don't. They just use... Like, Waymo is the brains of the operation here. So, Waymo is doing the radar, the LiDAR on top. You see that? They've changed it. They sexied it up. And there's a bunch of little different sensors around.

It has all the intelligence. It's really cool. Like, if you want to taste the future, try this car out. You get a button that says pull over. Yeah. But the interface, because it's the Chrysler Pacific the classic pacifica is like kind of shitty to be honest it's like very old school but see that thing like it shows you what the car is seeing and what it's doing and me as a as a you know uh i mean i i connect with you on the chimp side

we both have the same ancestors it feels weird to let a robot control your whole life as it's traveling 50 miles an hour. Well, I think ultimately this is going to be way safer. No, ultimately, yes. But this is an example. The reason I bring it up, people in the scientific community, and I could see that argument, and I felt that argument, and I partially agree to it, which is this is the safe way to proceed. They're slowly mastering Phoenix, to proceed. They're slowly,

they're mastering Phoenix, Arizona currently. They're like mastering it and slowly growing. Tesla Autopilot is like, we're going to deploy this autopilot technology to the entire world. I don't use it.

To hundreds of thousands of people. I don't use the autopilot. I have it. I don't use it. Jamie, do you use yours. I don't use the autopilot. I have it. I don't use it. Jamie, do you use yours? I did it once. Felt gnarly. I've used it with my wife just to freak her out.

Watch this, baby. I did it on a windy-ass road, too, with cars coming at me, two-way road. Oh, my God, did you? I kept my hand on the wheel the whole time. A couple times, I didn't even realize it gave it back to me. The question is, have you taken a long road trip? That was miles 30 miles that's as long as it was though yes that's a good move right if you're taking a long road trip because you could just chill yeah chill on the highway yeah that that's where people get the benefit of it yeah well i used to take it home from

the comedy store when i was tired so like i'd be there hanging out and it'd be like 1 30 in the morning i'd be tired i love that then just i'd get on the 101 and just let it ride. Was it energizing? At the store? Or tiring? No, no, no. Relaxing. Letting the car.

Just relaxing, where I can just hold on the wheel and pay attention to the road a little bit, but not like I am if I'm driving a sports car. You think you're paying attention less? I think so. Well, a sports car is different. You mean like so sports car you think you're paying attention less i think so oh sport well sports car is different you mean like yeah sports car driven at a fast speed one of the surprising things to me is that it seems that people are a little bit more alert when they turn on autopilot so this idea that you become more detached from the road was counterintuitive like that's what i thought would happen but it seems like people are less they become more alert they become less

kind of weirded out by the fact they're doing this yeah yeah I mean I don't know it's but the point is there's a lot of open questions from a human psychology perspective and that's where the scientific community speaks up like Elon seems to be going full steam ahead. Yeah. And he's doing one of the really cool things. I don't know if you're paying attention to this, but they're really deploying the full self-driving beta technology.

So, like, it's now able to, for the people in the beta program, the FSD beta program, it's able to take left turns, right turns, stop at the light, actually take you from point A to point B fully autonomously, except the liability is still with you. You're supposed to always pay attention. And this is another public, what is it?

Service announcement. Service announcement. Always pay attention to the road. I bought that and I never had it installed. It was one of those things where I was in my car, and it was like, would you like to order that? I'm like, okay. Elon's going to be mad at you.

I'm just kidding. I have to bring it somewhere. That's the problem. I thought I could just download it, but you've got to bring it somewhere. Oh, because your car needs to be modified in order to support it. Yeah. Whatever the new thing is that I paid for, because they keep emailing me. Both the pro and the con of the way Tesla does things is that they're constantly improving things.

And some of those are in the hardware. So sometimes you have to go and get your car modified and upgraded in order to support that kind of stuff. I think it's incredibly exciting i think it's one of the things i've changed my mind on is uh the ability of cars to drive fully autonomously i don't think as soon as elon says but i think very soon when do you think it'll be it It's hard to make... We should tell everybody that you actually have

a background in AI, so you really do. You're not talking out of your ass like me. Yeah. Well, my side gig is being an expert in Conor McGregor fights,

drinking whiskey, and yeah, I worked on autonomous vehicles for a long time. I still work on autonomous vehicles. Yeah, so, and I'm deep in the scientific community. And one of the only people who is appreciative of what Elon is doing and of what the entirety of the robotic community is doing.

One of the only people? Yeah, it's Apple versus Android. Like, the scientists are very, I think it's jealousy, to be honest. I like both. I have an Android phone too. You do? Yeah. I think this is a metaphor for the division that ultimately creates progress. I think the

Apple Android is a good analogy. Because there's a weirdness. There's a weirdness to the Android people. They're the resistance. Like, I'm hanging in there. I don't give a fuck, bro. We should all use Signal. Yes. a fuck bro should all use signal yes you should legitimately should all use signal signal is amazing and i use signal on my iphone i use signal with a lot of my friends i use signal on my android phone there's like a threshold i'm

waiting for the people i switch because people a lot of people are switching i talked to moxie from uh from signal one of the guys who created it he was he'd been on the podcast yeah that's right how's his last name maplethorpe marlin marlin spike marlin spike i remember i'm thinking of robert maplethorpe the artist marlin spike moxie's amazing he's a really interesting guy and uh completely altru intentions, not trying to make any money off of Signal. And he said that when Elon was telling people to use Signal, something happened and Signal literally gained the amount of users of a small country in like a couple of days.

They had an outage a couple, a few days ago. Signal did, and I talked to Moxie about it. Because I sent a message about something where there was these, there was an article that was demonizing Signal. And this, it was really disturbing to me. Because they were demonizing Signal and demonizing, I'm going to find it. Because, I'll send it to you, Jamie. Because it was, they were demonizing Signal and they were demonizing Encryption. And they were saying that it's a tool of the people that stormed the Capitol and this kind of shit. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

So it was this weird plea to Big Brother to look in on everybody and to make sure that everything's okay it was a very disturbing thing i think a lot of people that got i'd love to hear your opinions actually on parlor a lot of people that moved to signal as a place to try to communicate with each other when like all the platforms are banning just a bunch of different accounts different uh it's really unfortunate man man, because I see both sides. I really do. And I know some people don't. I'm going to send this to you, Jamie.

Some people don't see both sides. I really do see both sides. I don't think that most people are doing this because they want to support some sort of gigantic government overreach a la NSA, Edward Snowden exposed stuff. I think most people do worry that these kind of things will escalate. Now what we saw, the attack of Capitol Hill will keep going.

Millions flock to Telegram. So this is something that Glenn Greenwald posted. Millions flock to Telegram and Signal as fears grow over big tech. But go back to what Glenn said Because Glenn had a really good point He said three journalistic units Most devoted to demanding online censorship Are CNN's media reporters

NBC's disinformation team And New York Times tech reporters Here's the letter Laying the groundwork for making Encrypted apps Signal and telegram the next targets. And scroll down to his next tweet, please. He said, When the internet and encryption proliferated in the 1990s,

the Clinton administration seized the Oklahoma City bombing to demand backdoor access to all encryption. Bush and Obama used 9-11 to radically expand internet surveillance. Now it's CNN, NBC, New York Times journalists who take the lead. And there's a whole stream. It's from January 15th from Glenn Greenwald, who's an amazing follow on Twitter and just a fantastic journalist. But his take on it is accurate. You've got to be really careful when people are calling for denouncing encryption, privacy.

You should be able to say things privately between each other. There's no fucking reason why anybody should know what you're saying to me. And the way you text most of the time, SMS, with your wacky fucking Android device, that is the least private way. OnePlus Pro 7. Oh, is that a new one? Galaxy. No no it's not that new but galaxy 20 uh s21 best phone on the market are you gonna get the galaxy s21 is that what you're gonna get probably it looks so sexy i don't know it does yeah the ultra looks very sexy i don't know i i i wasn't i don't know what to think you're right i'm i'm personally

torn about the whole banning of all these different accounts of social media. The one that really hit me was Amazon. I don't know if you're paying attention to this, but Amazon removing Parler from AWS. It feels like that created a worse world, a more dangerous world. Because there's a difference to me than banning accounts on Twitter, which is also very complicated. But it's like the difference between banning the ability to make a phone call,

the ability of banning your number, blocking your number, versus banning your ability to make a phone call at all. When the actual infrastructure based on which your apps operate is now putting its finger on the scale of who succeed and not now that starts affecting capitalism that means twitter can't have a competitor that's like that has the conspiracy theorists that has the the people that are allowed to say crazy shit about jeffrey epstein not killing himself or something i don't know i don't think that's crazy the what that are allowed to say crazy shit about Jeffrey Epstein not killing himself or something.

I don't think that's crazy. Some people might think it's crazy, right? Do you think it's crazy? What do you think? If you had all your money and you had to put it on red or black, you had to put it on he didn't kill himself or he did kill himself. Red or black. I'm pushing all my chips on he didn't kill himself.

Yeah, I would... See, I feel like you would be more excited by the push. I would be just sadly pushing towards he didn't kill himself. Oh, you feel like I have a problem with the way I look at things. I'm judging. Why would I be more excited? Do you think I favor chaos over you? Well, I got enough chances to interact with Michael Malice

to where you're not even close to that side of the spectrum. He gets excited. He doesn't have any children. That's right. Yeah, I have children. I have three daughters, and that's the most vulnerable. Just slaying Maxwell, hearing illegally streamed by apparent QAnon followers. They broke in and said there's 14,000 people watching illegally.

But here's the thing, man. Fucking everybody who does something like that now is a QAnon follower. It's the greatest way to dismiss people ever. Because you just, like you were talking, Jamie and I were talking before the podcast about these hilarious threads of these QAnon followers realizing they've been had and like saying, you know, I can't believe Biden's the president. And then there's some really dumb ones who think Biden is in on the QAnon conspiracy and he's helping. Whoa, that's another level. Oh, it's all nonsense, right? It's just that it's literally the most unsophisticated minds trying to interpret things and looking for secrets that they can uncover. So it's really crude, bumbling.

And you see these guys with like flannel shirts on where their bellies are poking out and the buttons are stretching because they're so fat. And they're like, Q has told us that this is that and that is this and so what's going to happen is it's a setup and trump has got them all locked up and everything has been block chained and and they and there's so many people that buy into all this shit and it's it's weird to watch it's weird to watch it all play out but it's the same thing as bigfoot it's the same thing it's the same intention as people who are channeling aliens some beta reticuli it's the same fucking thing it's people that want to pretend they have some secret information because their life is boring as fuck and they want to spice it up with

some secret intel on the u.s government by q and q is got he's got they know they know what's happening and it's easy to get sucked into that just like it's easy to get sucked into channeling it's easy to get sucked into psychics and and card readers and and bigfoot and all that stuff it's easy to get sucked into believing that someone has this really exciting secret they know some things that other people don't know well that but there's so many secrets that are fat that are fascinating and they're closer to the truth like a lot of science there's a lot of secrets oh yeah and sure i would say i mean you're you're at the forefront of revealing some of the things on the alien side they're like i got more coming

i got more oh shit i got a lot more people coming i've been doing like an alien interview once every month yeah hell yeah with a ufo i love it some of them like uh so the ivy lobe guy thank you very much by the way for recommending him and and he legit. So people should check him out. So outside of aliens, the same thought mindset he has, he applies to a lot of questions in science. His thoughts about black holes are really interesting. People should really follow.

He's brilliant. He's a brilliant dude. Brilliant. So when a guy like him is saying that this interstellar object that travels faster by far, by more than twice of any comet or any asteroid that we've ever observed, that is coming away from the sun,

not affected by the sun's gravity, that is 10 times more reflective than any other object we've ever observed, that one of the things that Jeremy Korbel sent me is that it appears that it like it's commonly depicted that that object a mua mua is a cigar shaped cigar shape it's most likely flat like Jeremy said yeah Jeremy said it's like a disc that's what obvious from his book yeah it's from his book so the things that people have uh the way they've described it I'll try to find jeremy's uh he yes most likely the reflectivity suggests that it's

it's it's uh most likely to be a disc yeah which is course jeremy says flying saucer like of course he does this is from uh um obby's book the likelihood of a mua mua being disshaped was about 91 so that was that's like artistic interpretations based on the idea that it was an object, like a rock. But he says that it's flat. See, I tend to believe... Cigar isn't what I would go with on that.

Cigar shape? What do you think, a shit? Yeah. A turd. Yeah, it looks like a flying turd. Definitely. This is a kid's show, Jamie. I would say it.

But you know what, man? I think this is... I'm going to go way out out here this thing that people have where they want to believe in q or they want to believe in aliens or they want to believe in bigfoot they want to find these secrets i think this is ultimately the reaching for the branch this is this is a call to psychic powers and i think I think ultimately that's what we're trying to develop as human beings. And I think it's taking many, many, many generations. And I think the evolution of human communication through grunts and gestures all the way up to sounds, all the way up to complicated computer code and various languages i think that what we

are doing is trying to evolve human communication whether it's through biology or whether it's through technology to the point where there are no secrets and i think that's coming and i don't think it's going to be as far off in the future as many people think. And I think Elon and this Neuralink shit, these are the first warning shots of this symbiotic relationship that we're going to have with technology that allows us to read each other's minds. And this is what I've been saying for a while, that I think this is the future of human beings. I think the future of human beings is the thing that's going to save us. We're going to realize that we're in this massive conflict between lies and truth and encryption and disinformation and propaganda and these fucking crazy conspiracy theorists and all these people that are alt-right and white supremacists.

Are the Proud Boys evil or was it all just a joke? What's the truth? I want to know the truth! Because the fucking mainstream media does not have a vested interest in telling you the truth. They have a vested interest in telling you whatever the fuck they should tell you that's going to make the most people around them happy and sell the most clicks and get them the most views. And so we've got a conflict. We've got a massive conflict. Two polarized sides, right and left, red and blue. No one knows how to get out of this okay. No one knows. The way to get out of this okay, the way we get out of this is we can clearly see everyone's

intentions and maybe some people that you thought were bad or not bad maybe they're really good and maybe some people you thought were good were really bad they're just playing on the heart strings of what's the common consensus of what you're supposed to say what pronouns are you supposed to use what are the words you're supposed to utter what are the things that you're supposed to use what are the words you're supposed to utter what are the things that you're supposed to repeat there's a lot of really bad actors out there that are playing upon these cultural narratives that may not be they they might be sociopaths but they're saying the things that you can say publicly privately people know privately people are terrified privately people are like she's fucking crazy like i can't believe she got to where she got I can't you know what she did do you know she is do you know her uncle is do you know her grandfather is do you

know what the fucking the family history of these demons from hell like this is a lot of people talking this but publicly Dell espouse woke scripture. It's dark. It is dark. The way out of it is to read each other's minds. That's the way out of it. Wow. I think I love the picture you paint of reaching for branches and everyone's reaching for different branches.

I think on the path to reading each other's minds, there's going to be a lot of technologies that allow you to read each other's minds, there's going to be a lot of technologies that allow you to read each other's minds in more subtle ways before it's like full-on waterfall, Neuralink, just... I think that's what social media does. We can read each other's minds. I mean, we're all struggling with this.

And I think despite the media and all that, everybody is just like the alien folks are reaching for the different branches. And underlying that is ultimately like a curiosity and an optimism. And that's how we got to where we are today. It's just like chimps being, you know, the sons of apes. But it starts with bacteria. It's just like reaching, always reaching for the next branch like hopeful yeah because like most of life is kind of shitty and you're always trying to reach

out for make a better life and it's gotten better and better and better better because of that kind of reaching that's what elon does with his crazy thoughts about first of all landing on mars and then colonizing mars and colonizing other planets it seemed crazy at the time but because of that kind of reaching a hundred years from now several hundred years from now it'll be ridiculous to think that obviously we would not be colonizing this solar system and even other solar systems and that kind of thinking then moves to robots, AI. Yeah. I don't know if you saw. Okay.

I was trying to bring Spot here. No. Yeah. I'll fucking shoot it. Exactly. I'll shoot that dog. Good luck. Spot is a, I would never shoot a real dog.

It's a robot dog, folks. Oh, it's not real to you. No, not yet. Maybe one day it will be. You met my dog you met marshall yes no i didn't meet him god damn it i was gonna bring him here today but in the confusion of trying to find my suit yeah and get to the dry cleaner and all that jazz it was a real problem i'm honored i think the world would love to see the suit i was gonna yeah but i can't wear regular

collars yeah no that's right It has to be custom made. So I have this David August custom suit for this fucking gorilla neck I have. The iron neck, man. Do you use that yet? Yeah, you showed it to me. You don't have one yet? No, I don't have one.

I'll get you one. I'd love that, actually. They actually just reached out to me because me talking about it so much is blowing their company up they asked me to if anybody needs one anybody wants one do a lot of uh like bridges no no don't do that no no no no that's how mike tyson fucked his neck up bridges the problem with bridges is you're putting all this weight on those discs the thing about the iron neck is when you have this halo on in this bungee cord. Mike Jolly, the guy who invented it, was a fucking gigantic NFL player. It was so intimidating meeting him.

I'm like, hi. He's so much bigger than me. And you pull the cord. The cord is a 50-pound bungee. And then you have this halo around your head that you can change the resistance. And so you go. But you're never doing this. So this is how people fuck their necks up they put fuck their necks up by putting an unnatural load on those discs compression yeah well a compression and just a strain on the the disc itself and it causes

herniations by keeping everything in alignment but just twisting operating against resistance you never put pressure on those discs i've had a tremendous result with it i talk about it i mean i don't have any interest in the company i don't own any of it they never paid me i talk about it openly do you try to get like reps like once a week or something like that i do it twice a week twice a week yeah i do it twice a week yeah but i do once a week pretty light and but i do a lot of other neck stuff too a lot of trap stuff there's a lot a lot of cleans and presses which work your traps you know there's a lot of like little maintenance work like that for i feel like you have to study your own body like what kind of shit gets you in trouble like i used to uh and not used to i still do uh train wrist stuff how do i put this where people are

not going to be like yeah jerk off jerk off yeah exactly uh that because girls wrist curls so i get i get in trouble the wrists shoulders is a huge problem so you mentioned knees shoulders a huge problem for me so i use bands i recommend it highly just bands to do all kind there's all kinds of movements you can do on the shoulder have you had shoulder problems like overuse problems not major like shit broke problems yet except not yet so you don't know if you broke anything no but the goggins thing this is why i'm preparing like uh cue the uh rocket rocky music because because of goggins i did this challenger i did 20 000 push-ups and pull-ups 25 000 the that's when the shoulder was like oh shit yeah the problem is the tendons they don't want the

tendons don't want that the overuse injury there injury. There's a fine line between this idea of 40%, like people quit at 40%, pushing past that, but also having irreparable physical damage to your body. You sound like a pussy, sir. Yeah, I do. I do. I sound like a guy who's had his knees reconstructed. There's a certain level. Weakness gets us all, ladies and gentlemen.

Age and love. Yeah, for sure. You have daughters. Also, knowing what you're physically capable of doing versus not doing that because you don't want your body to break. The thing is, we all die one day. But do you want to be Dan Gable walking around your garage with bad hips and bad knees and doing curls with rusty weights maybe you do

I maybe you do I think he lived a hell of a life I'd like to high five him and then go fucking take a nap that's almost poetry I don't know that's definitely the choice you make you make that choice in all kinds of aspects of life I make preservation choices when it comes to my body i do i do make

preservation choices because i think um you you i look i i love david i love david goggins and i love my friend cam haynes who does basically the same kind of shit maybe even more extreme cam haynes is in better shape he's more crazy in a lot of ways he just doesn't have the same kind of publicity that david does he screams a little bit less but he runs like a marathon at all yeah he'll run a marathon a day and you know he'll regularly do 100 mile runs and regularly do i mean he's run the moab 240 the bigfoot 200 he's done some fucking crazy shit i've you know cam's an unusual human being and uh he's also older than david you know but yeah he looks he's my age cam's my age interesting yeah he's vibrant he's like super works a full full fucking eight hours a day every day. Works for the Oregon Department of Water and Power.

Puts in his fucking punches o'clock every day. And puts his time on the bow and all that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. Every day. No, he's... A good father. I think he's got a kid, right? He's got three kids, and one of them's a ranger.

And the other one broke David Goggins' pull-up record. Yep. Yeah, savages. Raising savages. And he's got a beautiful daughter too who's brilliant he's a man i mean he's he's the fucking man but you know these he stays injury free sorry to interrupt so he's to the point of preservation he's he's a weird one man he doesn't make any sense like i don't know how his knees aren't trashed like david's they're pulling out giant syringe like we were highlighting on the podcast with the undertaker how they're pulling out these giant syringes of pus from goggins's knees i don't i don't know how he keeps going with those knees cam doesn't have those problems like one time i had to bring him

to the doctor we were in vegas went for the fights and he had something fucked up his foot it turned out he had a stress fracture didn't even stop running didn't even stop running when he had a stress fracture he had different he he on purpose constructs situations where others including himself thinks that this is a bad idea and pushes through it oh dude every day well here's another thing the bow hunting community doesn't know what to do with him. There's people in the bow hunting community that don't like what he does because he works out so hard. Here's the thing.

When you see Cam Haines, you see a guy who's like this fitness, endurance athlete, but that's deceiving because although he is those things, he is those things to be the best bow hunter on earth and he makes a there's a real argument that he's the greatest bow hunter of all time like if if you ask me i'm i love him to death but if i wasn't his friend and i was on the outside looking at him and'm like, who's the greatest bow hunter of all time? I'm like, it might be Cam Haynes. Like, it is a real argument. Like, there's a couple of guys in the running. John Dudley's in the running.

Fred Bear is the legend. There's a few of these guys, these, like, legendary bow hunters. But this guy is so successful, like, insanely successful every year. Every year in the most difficult pursuit. It's really hard to be successful bow every year in the most difficult pursuit it's really hard to be successful bow hunting elk in the mountains it's hard he's successful every year and he pulls a 90 pound bow now you can't even buy a 90 pound bow from most bow companies they won't make you one but he he fucking strong arms them into making him a 90

pound bow so all these other bow companies or all these other bow hunters rather a few of them that are kind of butthurt and jealous are mad that he is telling people he has a 90 pound bow my question is do you think you are as strong as him if you don't, what do you give a fuck if he's pulling 90 pounds and you're pulling 70 pounds? Are we trying to pretend that we're all the same strength? Are we trying to pretend? Because that seems silly to me because I know a lot of really fucking strong people that are way stronger than me. I don't want to pretend that I'm the same strength as them. And if I found out there was a guy out there that pulls a 150-pound bow,

but he's built like The Undertaker and he weighs 300 pounds, I'd go, oh, okay, that makes sense. That's like me pulling a 90-pound bow or a 100-pound bow. That would be easy for me. But for him, a 150-pound bow would probably be just as easy because he's fucking giant. Cam Ains is working out every day. You've got a problem with him pulling a 90-pound bow. You don't really have a problem with that.

Your problem is with yourself. Your problem is that you know you can't really do that. And it bothers people. So there's this weird ego thing in the bow hunting world where they get upset at him because he's a legitimate psycho. Because he literally does get up at 4 o'clock in the morning, run in the rain in the dark, puts in a half a marathon before work, goes to work,

puts in another 10 miles during lunchtime. He's a real psycho. Yeah, and I like Goggins. The way he's an inspiration to me, is in how easy he makes it look. Smiles. He just smiles. Stoic.

He's just nice. Yeah. He's just a nice human. Stay hard! There's none of that. None of that. None of that stay hard. Have a good day, everybody. He's out nice He's just nice Yeah There's just nice human Stay hard There's none of that None of that None of that Stay hard

Have a good day everybody He's out there running In some sense I don't I don't Follow David Kane's

Sorry Cam Cam Haines Cam Haines That's that whiskey talking That's that whiskey talking One Two drinks

Is because He doesn't get me ass pumped up. He's just an example I'd love to live up to. Yeah. There's something about the David Goggins of just like, listen, motherfucker. Yeah. Gotta look at your demons. Make them your bitch.

It wakes you up. Well, he's much more outwardly inspirational. Yeah. Because he takes a lot of pleasure in pumping people up. There's a beautiful – so he's got – I think she's a girlfriend, but she might be a wife. I apologize if I don't know. Dave's wife? His wife?

Yeah, his wife. Okay. So they have – she's more and more becoming part of his Instagram thing. They have, she's more and more becoming part of his like Instagram thing. And there's just like this magical, in terms of relationship moment, where she's filming him for his Instagram. They're supposed to go out to dinner or something, like a nice thing. And he's doing pushups. He's doing pushups.

In a puddle of sweat on the carpet. That is the most, just like there's a romantic element of just like this is what i have to live with but i also love this man from her perspective and also there's this uh picture of like goggins who's like i don't give a fuck i'm getting these push-ups in um and he's he didn't really plan it he's just he's just there in the corner he's like almost like why are you filming me right now just let me deal with this guy right here i'm surprised he has a bed he's shaking his arms out while he's doing these fucking push-ups and like with that time limit i know what that feels like my wife and i had dinner with him and his wife yeah and a couple other folks uh after ufc uh the vegas one yeah pre-pandemic

before uh before all the shit went down and she was like he's he's nice he's normal he eats bread that's what she kept saying my wife is like he eats bread she thought he'd be like fucking fire breathing demon But he's fun Like he's a fun guy I've hung out with him A bunch of times He just gets the work done He just gets

Drops down to the pushups And that Well you know He knows That you know There's my expression Conquer your inner bitch Yeah

He knows he's got an inner bitch And you know He goes It ain't easy Sometimes I look at my sneakers And I stare at those motherfuckers For a half hour before I put them on. But just that admission that this is not, he's not a robot, but he gets everything a robot does done. He can do it.

Like as if he was, like he pushes his mind to do things that the body does not want to do. like he pushes his mind to do things that the body does not want to do so he almost in some ways behaves like a robot but the value one of the values in dave multiple values in dave one of the values is that he lets you know that he's not a robot he lets you know that he's got that little bitch inside of him talking to him yeah he's uh i've gotten the fortune to actually interact with him on the kind of the struggle side of things and he's definitely still it's not an act no he's still personally struggling with some shit oh he's working through it oh yeah yeah he gets angry in certain kinds of ways that's like oh shit like so this is a meet for example going out and running with him There's this You know the movie Casino

It's this badass movie With Robert De Niro And Joe Pesci And Sharon Stone I think Yeah And they meet up James Woods too James Woods is Sharon Stone's pimp

Oh that's right Good memory That's a badass movie God I miss movies like that That's another one my wife loves that movie yeah it has i mean i've seen that movie multiple times against my will oh you don't like that one no i do i like it is this like a scent of a woman situation no it's like um there's certain movies that like i've watched john wick maybe a hundred times yeah

you did like legitimately yeah i'm Not that great of a movie. Shut your fucking hole, you Russian traitor. You're wearing the uniform. What? You're wearing a John Wick uniform. There's other people that wear this. No, no, no. No, no, no.

No one does it better. Listen, that movie. He is dreamy. I will admit that. Kanye West is dreamy. He once killed three men in a bar with a pencil. Yeah. With a fucking pencil.

Is that historically accurate? That fucking movie is so... If you like to work out and you want to get fired up, that scene at the Russian bathhouse at the Red Circle bar where he kills everybody, that fucking movie is so good. How do you say Chad's last name? Chad. Let me.

That guy. I always fuck up the pronunciation of his name. It's very confusing here. Hold on. Chad's S-T-A-H-E-L-S-K-I. He's going to get mad because I say his name all the time. I communicate with him. Who is it?

We text. I met him at a Taron Tactical. I shot guns with him. Where they taught Keanu Reeves how to shoot guns. What pumps you up more? The shooting guns or the fighting? The martial arts? The judo?

He does pretty good judo and jiu-jitsu, which is, I got to give him credit for that. It's madness. It's a masterpiece of violence. Yeah. If you want a revenge movie, they stole his car and killed his dog. Killed his dog. And so he kills everybody. I get it.

I mean everybody. It's a fucking great movie. Do you want him to also wear some pointy ears and wear a cape? Because that'll probably make you even more excited Because a real movie about drama Involves something like Casino Where it's like real men I don't need it to be real, I live a real life bro

That's why I like superhero movies People are like, didn't I like real life Yeah, yeah, yeah, I live a real life pussy Listen, speaking of which You couldn't even get yourself in a john wick suit so you struggle listen i can't even live up to that i have a john wick suit that fits me yeah but the fucking the clean my you're more like the hulk you just just rip that thing i'm a juice head that's the problem i'm just too much weights talking about shit this fucking scene here in

the russian bathhouse boom boom to the just come on son yeah you want to go before that is this what it is in the youtube video go way before when he stabs the guy there it is right there right there he's this when he stabs the guy under his chin and looks him in the eye watch it all clear da da watch this right here this is one of my favorite this when i was involved in this sober october challenge with my friends right here this is right in the eyes i watched this a hundred times in a row i just kept watching it over and over and over again when i was on the elliptical machine oh but uh how's the carnivore thing going

great it's going great you still you still i keep cheating though yeah i keep cheating with this is the problem with carnivore because i've been eating carnivore thing going? Great. It's going great. You still... I keep cheating, though. I keep cheating with dessert. This is the problem with carnivore, because I've been eating carnivore, too. The problem is, watching the Hollywood fight, is I drink a lot of beer. Yeah. Well, look, we're drinking whiskey. Well, that's low carb. My problem is dessert. I've been eating dessert.

But I'm lean. Yeah, I'm fairly lean for me. I'm probably like right now like 199 ish somewhere around there but the problem is 200 with carnivore at least for me is it makes me feel so good and like lean and focused and just energetic yes that when i go off the path it hits me way harder yeah and that that almost like enforces you to be almost too stoic to where you can't have fun i mean not fun i'm not nothing pigging out as fun but like there's something social about even just drinking beers or just pigging out it does wreck your your

body though it's interesting right yeah it's weird it's like weird. There's a recovery to it, but it does make you feel really good. It doesn't make any sense. It's weird, right? It jacks up your testosterone. You should get your blood work done. Yeah. And the thing that I find is that I don't have any crashes in the day. I'm just flat throughout the day.

Like mentally super, super. The real criticism is coming from people who are either, you know, there's some people that are very educated about nutrition and they have a problem with the carnivore diet. They don't like, you know, there's some evidence that points to the idea that it's unhealthy. The anecdotal evidence, though, from individuals that find great benefit in it is very compelling. And unfortunately, I'm one of those. Then there's also, there's a lot of people that make these arguments that are not well-founded about it being bad for the environment. And I don't necessarily think monocrop agriculture is good for the environment. And I don't necessarily think monocrop agriculture is good for the environment.

I think the problem with the environment is massive amounts of human beings consuming food. And I don't believe the argument that there's no way to eat meat that's healthy for the environment because they've shown that you can do regenerative agriculture the question is can you can get it you can definitely buy grass-fed beef from like joel salatin or some

polyface farms or there's a there's the company piedmontese farms they just sent me some beef you can buy um there's rome that's the is that Carnivore MD, is that his Rome Ranch, right? Paul Saladino? It's funny enough, I think Ben Campo, something like that, Ben Campo's farm sent me some meat. There's like ethical reasons for doing it. It's expensive though, right? It is expensive.

Butcher Box, they use all grass-fed, grass-finished beef, all from ethically responsible farmers. They have a real relationship with farmers and ranchers where they treat their animals ethically and fairly and humanely. And a lot of people are like, well, how can you do that if you kill them? I understand your perspective. I understand your perspective. But the way they kill these animals is instantaneous there's a bolt to the brain they die instantly and i see the the argument that you should never kill a thing but

i think you need to understand that that death for an animal that is essentially a prey animal. Like if you look at this, this weird mandala, this weird, if you look at the, the, just the, the range of animals on the planet, there are animals that eat other animals. And a cow is one of those animals that gets eaten usually by large predators.

The way they get eaten is horrific. The best way for them to die is from human hands if that human does it correctly whether it's a hunter or whether it's a farmer there's no animals that are wild animals that live to be an animal that dies of old age or if there are there the numbers are so low it's you know it's like people that live to be 120 there's not a lot of them most animals die by starvation by disease or by predators the vast majority if someone comes along whether it's me shooting it with a with an arrow or whether it's a a an ethical humane farmer like one of the ones that butcher box employs or you know some of these other ranchers you you can get it the real question is not that the i mean there's an

ethical question it's a debate and it should it should be handled. You can have a respectful conversation about this. But the real question is, can that sustain 7 point whatever billion people? And I don't know if it can. I don't know if that's true. I think our problem might be the massive amount of human beings and the the fact that very few natural ways will sustain this population monocrop agriculture is terrible it's terrible for the soil it's terrible for the environment it's terrible for wild it displaces wildlife when they um when they uh when they harvest that those crops,

it's devastating to the wildlife, it's devastating to small mammals, and devastating to insects, devastating to birds. Life for life is not one for one. We don't look at a mouse the same way we look at an elk. An elk is a large, what my friend steve ranella calls a charismatic megafauna we look at them in a different way but it's one-to-one these larger things we think are more valuable if i shoot one elk i eat it for a year like i give it out oh you live do you have a place to cook yeah you have an apartment like go with those I got food for you. I love it. I have two commercial freezers out here.

I would, I don't know how to put it into words, my gratitude towards that, yeah. Wow, good. I got a bag for you. I'm going to hook you up. I feel kind of bad about eating meat that's factory farmed. Yeah. Well, I do too. I know what you're saying.

But health-wise, I think I feel better when I eat a lot of meat. I don't know if I could break apart the psychology of it. Do you struggle with it ethically? Because I feel, on a personal level, really good eating meat. Yeah. And I understand. This isn't me like being social justice warrior signaling or something it feels like this would be one of those things that in 100 years

we'll look back and say this is was a really fucked up thing that we did as a society i'm not sure this is why i'm not sure because what are we going to do to control the population of these animals? Once we've established herds of cows and sheep and chickens and all these different animals that we consider livestock, how are we going to stop them from breeding? Are we going to separate them from each other? Are we going to play God? Are we going to bring in predators? What are we going to do? If we stop eating them, what are we going to separate them from each other? Are we going to play God? Are we going to bring in predators? What are we going to do? If we stop eating them, what are we going to do?

And are we acknowledging that there are certain – there's a lot of people that are vegan zealots, and they do not believe that it can be healthy to eat meat. The problem with that is, of course, that almost all elite professional athletes eat meat. There's very few exceptions. There's a few that do well, and there's also a few that try vegan diets and their bodies wind up falling apart. And vegans hate that. They hate when you talk about it. They get angry because they're in... it's an ideology. You could say it's

almost cult-like. But they also have some good points. Like they're not killing sentient beings and they don't think of plants as being a sentient being right problem with that is of course we do mushrooms you realize that all things are alive yeah that's what you I hope you get Matthew Johnson your podcast by the way that guy is he the guy that did that you have yeah psychedelic drugs guy yeah okay i got a okay he opened up my mind so i've always thought psychedelics in general but psilocybin just everything dmt was um a fascinating like a fascinating way to explore the mind scientifically as well but he's the first person i might be

ignorant made me realize you could actually do it as part of, like, multimillion-dollar-funded studies. And, like, explore it, like, rigorously. I know it sounds weird, but, like, seriously explore. Like, what does, like, where can you go? He is big on doing a heroic dose of psilocybin, which apparently is legal as long as it's part of a study and he's been studying it for 50 years no he's a young guy which is like you know part of uh part of my excitement that this is like this is a legit this is somebody that will be following for decades to come i think he's just in the early steps of a journey. He's running huge studies. One of the things that really excite me about what he's doing is he went from sort of using psychedelics or psilocybin or any of the other psychedelic drugs to explore like how you can treat different mental disorders, diseases, addictions, and so on, to now pushing it towards how can it help a person who,

what he calls a creative, like somebody like you, a comedian, or somebody like Elon, like engineers, like me, engineers, scientists, all that kind of stuff. How can it help the mind when you're not trying to treat some kind of uh explicit disorder but actually trying to expand your thinking about the world and actually doing that as a study that's what i'm excited about kind of waiting with just like bated breath that he runs a study that i can participate in because i'll be open to in the wild do you have any experiences at all i've uh psilocybin mushrooms yeah i've taken uh three four times and it was i've never had actually a negative experience with drugs

um maybe alcohol but that was it's like it's like saying like i you know it was more positive than negative i've drugs uh kids don't listen to this but drugs have done well for me do you listen to the podcast i did recently with dr carl hart no you would really enjoy it oh it was a little tedious in the beginning because we were talking about uh politics and it was post capitol hill and it was like, you know, he was very frustrated. But when we got into drugs, then he came alive. And we were, he's, he's, well, his book is right here. What is his? Drug Use for Grownups, Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear.

So that's not the sense. I started listening to the podcast. That's not the sense I got from the podcast when I started listening to it, which is awesome. Because, yeah, I was, I was hearing the politics and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I should have steered us away from that quicker. But I love the guy, and I just wanted to let him talk and talk with him, and I wanted to get us into drugs.

But I didn't want to just jump right into it because I felt like, you know, one of the things about this podcast, I feel like sometimes people come on and they realize that it's this big platform and they have a lot to say. And when there's a thing that's happened in the news that was as ridiculous as that i shouldn't say ridiculous horrific as that capitol hill attack everybody wants to get it out of their system so we talked we talked about politics

for a little bit and i felt a little clunky with my descriptions of things but then we got into drugs and once we got into drugs then he shines because he was a guy who bought into all the propaganda and and you know he was he's a research scientist and a brilliant guy who wasn't into any drugs at all until he was in like his i believe he said he was in his 30s. Is that correct, Jamie, somewhere in there? And then, you know, now he takes drugs all the time. He's talking about the positive benefits of heroin. He had a shirt on that was the chemical compound for crystal meth.

Yeah, that's, it's funny enough, like, so you talk to Avi Loeb who's you know the Amu Amua somebody who's really open-minded about it that but he's less open-minded

about psychedelics and all those kinds of drugs it's fascinating where we as a species you talk about reaching for branches or exploring

like what's yeah what's interesting and I think psychedelics is a legitimate like I haven't actually tried much at all, but it feels like every time I've tried mushrooms, it makes you realize that the mind is capable

of so much more than you were cognizant of. It makes me think that there's more to reality than we can grasp, and that we need to help. We need something. We need a little doorway that lets us walk through to some other side, whether it's psilocybin or dimethyltryptamine or whatever the method you use. There's a lot more out there. We're very crude in our perceptions, our ability to perceive. perceptions, our ability to perceive.

And I think our ideas of drugs, our negative ideas of drugs, are a lot of times they're flavored with the limitations of human personality and human beings interfacing with the world, looking for escape rather than looking to explore and looking to give in to the Mother mother gaia and and give in to these magical compounds and also there's a lot of fucking charlatans man there's a lot of people that espouse the use of psychedelics because it makes them appear to be spiritual and it boosts their their ego and and i had a conversation i've had more than one conversation with people where they say like you know you don't seem like a psychedelic guy because you like you use like a

lot of like fucked up words and you say a lot of shit you probably shouldn't say i'm like well i'm also a comic like at the end of the day my goal is to uh look i'm also accustomed to being around people that do what I do. Sometimes people get taken aback by my crude language or the way I think about things or discuss things. But my culture, my community is comics. At the end of the day, they're comics and fighters. Both of those people are used to saying some of people that community are used to saying some fucked up shit It's fun for us you when you're a person who like There's there's people are accustomed to things that like one of my favorite videos

There's nothing to do with psychedelics of a fighter It shows you the sense of humor of a fighter is my friend John Wayne par after a fight He's got this giant gash in his head and they're stitching stitching him up. And as they're stitching him up, they're opening up his thing like a mouth and talking like, hey John, how was today? He's got this giant cut in his head. A lot of people would be freaked out. They have this cut in his head.

He's laughing. It's post-fight. You know, there's a sense of humor that fighters have. And there's a sense of humor that comedians have. And I'm sure first responders, firefighters's a sense of humor that comedians have and i'm sure first responders firefighters a lot of soldiers that i'm friends with they have a different sense of humor too because they've seen a lot of wild shit and a lot of violence they they're they use us there's a style of communication that for um a lot of pity a lot of people that just live a more pedantic,

a more pedestrian, a more placid life. They don't, they're uncomfortable by it. Yeah, I actually looked at humor. I think humor will save the world. I think that we mentioned. Look at this. That's only one of them. That's only one of them. That's only one of them.

The other one was on the side of his head. He had one where they were stitching him up. It was on above his left eyebrow, and it was giant. John's had more than 100 stitches in his head. I mean, way more than 100 stitches, like hundreds of stitches in his face. Yeah, the people that have been through the the worst shit that i've uh had a connection with in my life they always have a dark sense of humor about and it's a it's a kind of escape no it's not an escape it's actually i don't know it's but

not even it's almost a way to embrace the dual nature of life, that it can be really shitty and really beautiful. Yeah. Because of the ups and downs. And somehow, I don't know what it is about humor. There's something about it that just reveals that, the roller coaster of life, the best of it. Right now, the big one, of course, is the whole cancel culture and the hypocrisy within politics.

And so comedy, that's why it sucks that the coronavirus is keeping a lot of comedians locked up. You know, comedy is a way to reveal that ridiculousness. And I suppose, like, podcasts are doing that. They are, but, you know, there's a lot of comedians that are back on the road now. They're like, fuck it, I can't do this anymore. And hearing your show with Chappelle was like, that was so refreshing. Actually, I won't say what it is, but Ron White was on the show. He said the most, and I was fortunate enough to sit next to your wife,

and he said the most inappropriate joke. And it was so refreshing for some reason. It was like a kind of escape. I know what you mean. Yeah. We've been taking ourselves so seriously in this very kind of careful discourse in the public sphere that like comedians provide this kind of like they point out the elephant in the room yes like this is absurd yeah yeah and sometimes that requires going over the top and that's it made me uh yeah it made me uh miss

the world as it as it was it'll be back again and the real ones like ron white and dave chappelle they'll they'll be raging stronger than ever Because people are going to appreciate it And they're going to realize oh my god this is the way out We need to stop getting angry About everything And we need to start embracing humor It's important

There's a broad spectrum Of human thought And we can't just live in the Fucking range of outrage that range is a shitty range you know that range that so many people exist in and one of the reasons why they exist in that rate that range the outrage range is because they're doing it online it's not a real way of communicating because of the fact that everyone's been separated from just normal regular interactions with folks you know

i remember like i would feel like when i was uh when i first moved to la i didn't have any friends and i would feel real weird you know i would be uh i had a furnished apartment so it wasn't really it never felt like mine it felt like a hotel so there's a place called Oakwoods. These Oakwoods apartments in Burbank. I think it was in Burbank. But wherever it was. I was staying in these apartments. It was weird, man. I felt weird.

Like, what am I doing here? And then I would go to the comedy store. And I'd be around people. And I'd be around like-minded misfits. And we'd all be laughing and I would be like, almost like if somebody took a weighted vest off of me, like, I'm going to be okay.

It's going to be okay. And then it felt weird again the next day and then I had to go to the comic store again. We need each other. We need each other, but we need each other person to person. And there was no social media back then, which if there was,

I'd probably be just like a lot of these fucking idiots that are online raging about the world and looking for acceptance and looking for social justice brownie points and virtue signaling at any turn, hoping that it gets me some love and likes. Because that's what people are doing. They think they're doing it because they're trying to correct the world, but they really don't understand that they're contributing to the polarizing aspect of today's culture and climate. We need to be around each other. Can I ask you a weird question? Sure. So I've been a fan of your podcast for a long time. I listen to, as I listen to most episodes, I listen to the one with Giannis, I think

it was. Giannis Papas. Yeah, by the way. Oh, yeah, thank you. He's hilarious. He's awesome. He's a great Twitter follow, too. Yeah, yeah.

I got to. Cheers. I got to actually go to the show with him. I was at the table with him. I'm also a big fan of his podcast. I think it's called... History Hyenas. History Hyenas, yeah.

It's like the complete opposite of Dan Carlin. It's just like comedians shooting the shit over. But that said about World War II and Greek, Crete, people should like read... The Greeks are bad motherfuckers. Oh, yeah. Jesus. I was surprised how much they contributed

to just pushing back there's a lot to discuss there but like they they helped push uh stall the nazis in uh in the fact that it took them much longer to then after conquering uh crete they had to go to russia and they succeeded the greeks successfully stalled the nazis to where most of the war was in the winter pushing towards stalingrad this fascinating history there i always love the kind of 300 where you stand back and like just a few people are able to fight back the storm of evil. Yeah. That's always badass. That movie's amazing, too. It's so fantastical and ridiculous and over the top, but just fun.

Yeah. But anyway, there's something about him. It must have been the whiskey. There's a sadness that I've heard over the past couple months. From Giannis? No, from you. Really? I might be wrong on that i

just i wanted to ask like because you mentioned about friendships in la and so on like are you doing okay yeah i'm fine like so i'm remarkably resilient despite the fact that i fucked up the word remarkably uh grammar could use some work. And yeah, pronunciation. I feel great. Yeah. You feel good. Yeah. Where are you getting that sadness thing from?

I think, so what I heard, maybe a slight romantic thing. You brought up your wife and so on. And there was just a longing for human connection. About her? No, not your wife. Just in the way you were talking about things. I don't know. That stood out to me more than usual.

Usually it was like Joey Diaz shooting shit for the years, right? It just felt like you were more, I mean, I guess we all grow and change. It felt like you were, I don't want to say softened up, but there's a sadness in there a little bit. Well, I think sometimes I mourn for the death of L.A. I really do. And I think when I'm around comics sometimes, particularly comics like Yana, so I met at the comedy store. There is a part of me that gets this part like god damn it you know like this is gone it's it's gone man la is gone you know uh

my friend brendan chobb was just he drove his bike down the comedy store the other day he's texting me he's like dude is the walking dead it is so fucked up down here now there's nothing open it's so strange it's so weird it feels so dangerous and so so different than it used to feel um i mean do people feel that way also sad to see about new york it's just so why do you think it was when i was talking about my wife because you don't usually bring up your wife oh i think it was because he was talking about his or something like that. I know, but he was at which hilariously enough, he was talking like about something about him being like becoming famous and

like trying to plan ahead that if he's going to be continued being married, like prenup style, he wants to make sure that there's, I mean, he's just laughing, but there's i mean he's just uh laughing but there's just i don't know there's a melancholic kind of longing for uh like louis ck has this bit where he's like i think he talks about uh like listening to bruce springsteen and pulling out to the side of the road and crying or something every once in a while, just remembering that life is both beautiful and tragic. There's just that, which I don't usually hear from you. Well, I mean, maybe we were drinking, and that's part of it.

The reason why I don't bring my wife up too much is she doesn't really like it. I talk about her. I'll say something fucked up, and she doesn't want to hear it. So I try to hedge my bets with that. Yeah. Well, it's like so i try to hedge my bets with that yeah well it's funny yeah go ahead in your show you brought up your wife because i won't mention the bits or whatever all those jokes she gets upset at those too she was laughing i was like i looked over at her to make sure it's cool i got she's a great person i got very she makes me a better person she really does yeah i don't say that

lightly you know if i if i didn't think i didn't like her i wouldn't be well see i say i wouldn't be around but i would and one of the reasons why i would is because i have kids and i think there's a there's a thing that there's like this is my girlfriend and then then then there's this is the mother of my children and it is a fucking different animal, man. It's a different animal. You know, it's like a lot of people said like, you know, you never really, you thought marriage was stupid. And then you decided to get married. Well, I had children.

I had children. Like, you have children. Whatever I think is stupid about marriage. Like, I think the idea of, it it's not the idea of committing to someone is not stupid but the idea of a legal contract with a government agency about love it is stupid yeah there's no love in the courts there's no there's no there's no love in these civil unions and all this nonsense no the love is between two people and there's something weird about saying can i get in on paper yeah i love you you love me we love each other

okay imagine if you did that to your best friend like lex you and i are friends i love you i think you're a great guy on paper can i get that on paper if i pulled us a lex you and i've been friends for a few years now right let's fucking make it official yeah let's make it official bro but then if you stop taking my calls i want money yeah i want to be able to half of what you make it's weird because when sex is involved with human beings we change we have these cultural norms but these these cultural uh standards about relationships are based in about there's two things going on one there's like if a woman commits to a man and she's enhancing his career and she abandons her own to try to help him and then she doesn't have a career and then

he gets rid of her and cashes her out for a new model and then she's fucked and she needs alimony or vice versa like the Tom Arnold situation right where Tom are this there that's our guy like we've all talked about that that's our fucking Michael Jordan when it comes to male alimony he married an incredibly successful woman Roseanne Barr and then when he got divorced from her he got paid and he got rich and famous from that there's that and then there's when there's children involved and I think And then when he got divorced from her, he got paid. And he got rich and famous from that. There's that, and then there's when there's children involved.

And I think as a guy who grew up without a father, without my real father, I don't know my real father. I have a stepfather. I'm very fortunate that my stepfather was in my life. And he's a great guy. And my mom has been in my life my whole life. I'm very fortunate because there's some people that don't have neither of those things, right? It means a lot to me to be there for my kids. It means a lot to me.

And it doesn't mean that I love my wife any less. But whatever the marriage thing, I was like, okay. We had a kid. thing like i was like okay like yeah we we had a kid like okay i'll abandon all of my preconceived notions about the silliness of legal contracts with the state it doesn't mean i don't love anyone any less or it cheapens it at all but i think the thing is ridiculous you stand in front of each other that i do i do you guys have a wedding song or like do you do a dance i barely got through the whole thing it was so as a comic it's so preposterous for me but it doesn't mean

I don't love any less it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate her any less I appreciate the fuck out of that lady no you do

and that's one of the inspiring things it's like I see that with that's one of the reasons I like Elon is allowing yourself to be excited

about awesome things just being I don't know seeing the beauty in things and one of the is allowing yourself to be excited about awesome things. Just being, I don't know, seeing the beauty in things. And one of the inspiring things about you is just saying nice things about your wife. It's funny, but it's rare. It stood out, actually. Most people just kind of talk shit about. But I genuinely have a great time with her.

Yeah, I really do. And we've been together for a long time. And we've grown together. Like, who I am now is not who I was when I met her. I'm a different person. And part of me being a different person is my relationship with her. But she doesn't like me talking. She's going to be mad at this.

Yeah. Sorry. Not really mad. She won't be mad because I'm saying nice things. But, you know relationships are odd man because a lot of them go bad and my problems with marriage was growing up seeing marriages that went bad and seeing traps like when i was like my grandparents were lovely people but jesus christ did they fight. They fought in the worst way.

It was horrible to be around, to be a little kid, and my grandmother screaming at my grandfather. And I remember thinking, fuck this. I remember being trapped in my grandparents' home. They're watching me like my mom's out doing something. She's going to come back, and they yell at you. Don't rush me, Joe! It was Josephine and Joseph, my unoriginal family.

My grandfather's name was Joseph, my grandmother's name was Josephine. They're fucking yelling at each other. And I remember being terrified because I was a little kid and thinking like, God, I don't ever want to be trapped with some fucking person where they don't like each other anymore. Or even if they love each other, they've developed these patterns of communication that are so negative and corrosive, they're just screaming at each other they've developed these patterns of communication that are so negative and corrosive they're just screaming at each other all the time and when i was a young man um that's how i thought about relationships i thought and also i had a bunch

of bad ones growing up especially when i was broke when i when you're broke and you have like and your future looks pretty fucking sketchy. Boy, you learn a lot. And those girls were right. They were right to look at me skeptically. Like, this motherfucker, he thinks he's funny? Like, where are you going with this? Where is this career going? And, you know, there was like, when girls would cheat on me,

like if I found out about it, there was a relief. I was like, oh, great. I don't have to wait for this to happen. Like, it already happened. Like, I knew it was coming. Like, this is my concept of relationships. They were always tortured and struggling. And for, what is the percentage of people that get divorced in this country?

I keep hearing 50%, but it's something ridiculous. Chris Rock has the best bit about that. He goes, that's the ones that have the courage to leave. How many cowards just stay? He's right. And he's divorced, by the way. Chris Rock's divorced.

You know, so, but the problem is, and also, you know, he's got some horrific jokes about how much money he had to pay in divorce. And,

you know, he's like, my wife made more money in comedy last year than dave chappelle which is fucking horrible yeah jeff bezos's wife is uh doing really good money uh good things with the money that she has actually jeff bezos is so goddamn rich that given her 34 billion didn't even put a dent in them no No, no dent. Elon, number one, though, currently. Elon Musk, the richest man on earth. Well, other than the Saudis that don't give up the numbers.

Or Putin. Let's just put the truth on the table. Oh, yeah. Putin, too, right? Yeah. A lot of those oil folks, they have undisclosed incomes. Right? I think they probably laugh.

Oh, good job for you. Number one. I think it's funny oh good job for you number one i think it's funny oh you're number one congratulations my friend how did you do it you know because it's uh it's money's a weird thing right because you're you really only have time you know and do you have enough time to recoup that money that you gave up? And how much of your life is based on the lifestyle that that money provides? What is it about your life that you think that you need a certain number? Look, I have a friend who's the i've talked about him before but i'll say it one more time because he has one of my worst stories about marriage

he got divorced he's been divorced for 14 years he's been married to a new woman for 12 years he doesn't even have a baby with the first woman and he's still paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and it kills him it kills him it's crazy and you know my joke is like did he fuck her so hard she can ever work again like he was in a relationship with a woman it didn't work out but he has to continue sending her a giant chunk of his income every year and it kills him yeah it can make you cynical about like the it can affect their relationships, could affect your ability to be like. It causes some men to become misogynists. Yeah.

It causes some men to look at women as like parasites. It's not good. It's not healthy. You know, I don't necessarily think that all divorce settlements are like that. are like that but i do think that there is an odd thing when you have an industry that is based around extracting money from people that have it and what that is is like phil hartman told me once when he was he was trying to get divorced from his wife and he's like uh i go just give her half he goes it's not half it's two-thirds he goes it's a scam the lawyers take a third and i remember thinking like oh shit i never even thought about that that's the scam. The lawyers take a third. And I remember thinking like, oh, shit, I never even thought about that.

That's the scam. The scam is they drag it out. And I've had multiple friends who've been involved in divorces where it's dragged out. Yeah, my worry is the, that's my biggest fear of marriage is the lawyers on the divorce side. That's why I wasn't into it for the longest time. You know, but listen, man, you're going to have the bigger commitment is children. the lawyers on the divorce side that's why i wasn't into it for the longest time you know but listen man you're gonna have the bigger commitment is children that's the big you have a life form you have a human being you have uh the the most precious person in your life these when you have

a baby man the weird feelings that you have about love like the the the intensity of the love, it's so overwhelming. Like, you know, I can look at pictures of my kids when they're little and I start crying. It's crazy. The feeling that you have about children is just a fucking game changer. And it makes you just think about all of, you know, all of your preconceived notions about humans. And they all go out the window. Because I think of all people as babies now. I used to be an angry person.

I used to think, well, that guy's a fuckhead. And now I think, that guy is a baby that just grew up all fucked up. And now here he is, a 40-year-old douchebag. How do they, I hope you don't mind saying how do they like to move to texas they love it they love it here la feels like a weird place for yeah it's healthier for them here kids are more normal here kids in la there's here being famous doesn't seem like a viable option in la it seemed like the most viable option like the option. Oh, you mean like there's a... There's a community of people that are focused around the Kardashians

and the athletes and the musicians and the this and the that and their whole ideas. You know, this obviously sounds hypocritical. It's coming from someone who happens to be famous, but I think that it's, it's a empty pursuit. It's, you know, you can,

you can get famous doing a thing that you love or you can try to be famous. And there are two very different things. And I think there's been many times in my life where I was trying to get famous because it seemed like it was impossible, right? Like when I was young and first getting on television, first doing comedy, because it just seemed like impossible. Like when I was young and first getting on television, first doing comedy. Because it just seemed like impossible.

Like how does someone get famous? I could see other people famous. Like how are they famous? This is crazy. It seemed nuts. But be careful what you wish for. You think fame changed you? Like are you able to be cognizant of ways in which the fact that this podcast is the biggest

podcast in the world and just all, all of that, how that's changing your mind. I mean, I think about that with power that you might not be cognizant of the way that power is changing you. That's why I find Putin fascinating. So what,

like, do you look in the mirror and see you're not the man you used to be in some dimension? This is a different human because you're so fucking famous. Believe it or not, I think about that very little. I think that's one of the keys to my success.

I think so so i see that legitimately i don't think i think just interacting with you offline in general i don't think you're it doesn't look at you acknowledge to yourself that you're famous like you don't you're not living with that truth you're not like lingering it you're still pursuing the things that make you happy that yeah i i i tend to believe that you can do the same with power like i tend to believe a president could do that same kind of thing that's what we would hope right you would hope that some president gets to a position of power not because they crave it but because they have solutions to problems and they generally think that they can help the world now i'm not saying that I'm not equating my like I'm not um yeah favorably comparing

myself to a president or something like that but I I think I got a slow drip of fame and that's one of the things that helped me you know i started i got on television for the first time in like the early 90s with doing stand-up comedy and then it led to a sitcom that led to fear factor in the ufc and all these different things and then ultimately it accidentally led to the biggest thing that i ever did which was this was this the biggest thing you ever did? This podcast? Oh, by far, yeah. By magnitudes. For sure. Yeah, massive, giant numbers of magnitudes

different than anything I've ever done. Well, for some reason, your Bernie Sanders conversation popped into mind because that's my favorite part about the inauguration that happened is Bernie Sanders sitting there popped into mind because that's my favorite part about the inauguration that happened, is Bernie Sanders sitting there in comfy clothes with, like, mittens. And he's sitting back. I don't know if you know this picture.

Have you seen the memes? There's so many memes of him. Oh, they're great. I'm sorry. You probably were sick of it. I'm sorry. The internet is undefeated. I'm like grandma.

So many awesome memes of him doing different things. But the original. The original. Just the sitting there and not giving a damn. Well, I think he gives a damn. I think he's recognizing that it's never going to happen. He had this idea that he was going to sort of help the working class. I really do believe that guy was legitimate.

I think he stood for what he really truly believed. I think there's a lot of people that felt disappointed that there was some votes that he wasn't there for that he could have helped and some stands that he could have taken that he didn't and then ultimately that he kind of gave in to the powers that be and the status quo. But I think meeting him and talking to him,

and I don't know, maybe I'm a romantic, but I really do believe that he had in mind only good intentions. And I think he really did want to help working families. And I really do think that he wanted to. It was one of the reasons why I supported him. I think he really did want to alleviate student loan debt. He really wanted to make universities free. He really did want to make it so that healthcare was accessible to everybody. He really did want to make it so that a living wage was something that people can expect

if they work a job. And, you know, the economists be damned. I don't know if they're right. I don't know who's right when it comes to that, whether or not like 15 bucks an hour is going to cripple our our culture and crush businesses i'm too dumb i really don't know but but he's a genuine human and that that's a rare quality it felt like you could disagree with his policies but like it feels like we should have a person like that it's rare for a politician yeah he knows who's also genuine is tulsi gabbard she's genuine as fuck man she was here yesterday she was on the podcast yesterday yeah it's out today she's amazing she's a like a genuine like a legit human being like that that's who she is one one thing that's on my to-do list is to investigate look into uh why there's so much hate towards her.

I was confused. So every time I've heard her... They couldn't control her. We talked about it on the podcast. The moment she decided to run for president, it all started coming after her. They started calling her a Russian asset. Dude, she's a...

She served... She was a congresswoman for eight years. She served overseas twice. She was... You know, she was involved in these situations where she's working for medical units. They're bringing in soldiers, blown apart. That's why she has that white streak in her hair. They came from one of her deployments.

Stress? Just stress. Just the freaking out over these horrific scenes that she was seeing over and over again that's why she has this non-interventionalist foreign policy ideas that are so important to her this this stop ending these endless wars or a stop rather having and participating in these endless wars she's uh she's a legitimate patriot man did she talk about running no she's doing a podcast like her own yeah it's called this is tulsi gabbard because she felt like she was so misrepresented you know we talked about her being attacked on the view and how that collapsed on

those people and it's like these the merchants of hate out there trying to spew their vitriol on people. There's a whole business in that with people. Podcasting could be the thing that actually saves us. A lot of really interesting people. Andrew Yang is doing a podcast. It's a way to express yourself in a long-form format and being nuanced, and it feels refreshing. Yeah. I do think you should give platform to certain folks who are—

Crazy people? No, not crazy people. There's just some people who don't have a platform currently. I could. He's no longer president, but Donald Trump yeah you should you should give him a chance because he's banned everywhere else I figured that that would be a crazy conversation dude yeah I I mean I know if I'm ready I'm into that yeah and I think I feel like you can make his own youtube video he's got his own he's got his own

platforms there's a there's a complexity to that human being oh for sure when you hear a story again coming from someone who has children and you know the the the story that is uh was his uh his cousin paints of him or his niece yeah that's right uh it's his niece or his cousin niece yeah it's uh whatever the name of her book is a story that resonates with anyone that has had a difficult upbringing and recognizes the need that children have for the love of their parents there's um there's a thing that happens to children when they're raised incorrectly they're raised with the wrong the wrong input yeah mary trump you know i wish i was so mad at this book i don't even know if she's right i don't know so the problem with this book is that she had the opportunity to write a deep psychological study of donald trump that's apolitical and she kept inserting politics into

it she kept inserting her obviously liberal point of view as opposed to studying a fascinating complicated human being who's obviously achieved a lot of things in this world well you know what i bet that's probably what the editors want and i bet that's probably what a lot of other people wanted but i agree with you is that i want to be able to make up my own political ideas and my own political decisions i want to know what you know about this human yeah and how this how this i mean she might you know if donald trump might sit down and write a book about her let me tell you something about this bitch that's a good title for a book that's a good title of his book let me tell you something

about this bitch she was always mean and, she always complained and blamed other people. And she was always lazy and she was always mad at her cousins. Like, who knows? I'm just exaggerating and making things up. She's probably a wonderful person. But my point is, we don't know. When a person just writes something and the other person doesn't even get to respond interject it's a real problem you can get a very distorted perception of who that human being is yeah and uh what's the matter

james i got we were talking about putin a second ago about being the richest man in the world i've stumbled across a current story that is very interesting uh do you remember the uh i think he's considered maybe putin's rival the guy that got poisoned a couple years ago. So he's recently traveled back to Russia. Did you hear about this? Yeah, I did. As of two days ago, he uploaded a video onto YouTube. I'm going to show you this in just a second.

It has 50 million views in two days. This is Putin's billion-dollar palace? Yeah. It's a two-hour video where this guy's breaking down what this is. It's a $1.4 billion palace that has all sorts of crazy. It sounds crazy. There are English subtitles on here. I obviously don't have the time to look through this at the moment.

I haven't seen a video get that many views that quick in a long time. Oh my God. It's 49 million views. Play some of it. I want to see. I just want to see the palace. This is, how big is it? It's huge.

They're like, one of the guys that was looking into this brings up that they have a- Oh, it's legitimately Navalny's video. Yeah, this is his video. There's other videos that are smaller, but this is the actual two-hour one. How much time do you think he's got left on Earth? He went back. The size of the balls this man has to go back. After they poisoned him.

They're bringing up this, it's a stripper room, but they're like, there's this room in the basement that has no windows and weirdly a pole. How does he have this information? They have the plans. They have 3D renderings. They have drone footage. There's like an enclosed ice rink there's a 2500 square foot greenhouse wow so he might be the richest man

in the world that's that comrade can we take the video down according according to him he like owns everything in russia or something he owns everything in russia well he is uh what is his does he have a lot of support in Russia? Yeah, yeah. Still a huge amount of support. I mean, young people... Is it the same kind of support like Trump has support? Like support for the strongman? Yes, but he is much better.

This is what I mentioned with the charisma of Hitler, not equating anybody in this conversation, but Putin is actually two things he's very charismatic and like witty intelligent thoughtful so it's very different style than donald trump who's more chaotic comedian like just right off the cuff kind of way and uh the other thing that putin is which a lot of dictators have been throughout history,

is he's really good at his job, actually, of being a manager, of being president. He loves his job. He doesn't love—he loves his job more than he loves power, which is fascinating to watch. Really? Stalin was similar to that. Is that why he's effective? That's why he's effective. You can have critical perspectives on it.

You can have positive perspectives on it. But the truth is he's really good at having the meetings with the different people that are responsible for energy, for agriculture, for the way the country runs, actually listening to them. Obama was really good at this, actually listening to them obama was really good at this and listening to the different experts and understanding what they're saying even though he himself is not an expert in it asking the right questions thinking through it

calling you out on your bullshit if you're corrupt he's actually really good at fighting corruption a lot of people argue that he's actually, while he's good at fighting corruption, he's creating an extra, like, another level of corruption by the way, the kind of cronies he gets into government. But the fact is, he calls people out on their bullshit. When he gives a lot of money to a different kind of region to perform a certain task, he expects that task to be performed. region to perform a certain task he expects that task to be performed like if a certain kind of infrastructure has to be built he calls you out on your bullshit if you didn't build that set of roads or whatever the infrastructure is so he's good at his job the stuff that's underneath it the potential hypocrisy or the you, deeply unethical things for which there's very little proof, but almost like common sense, like Epstein didn't kill himself level of like logic is, you know,

it bothers a lot of people, especially in the West. But in Russia, I think he still has majority support. I'm pretty sure he has significant support in Russia. Young people are who love the West, who love the idea of freedom. They don't like the idea of what Putin is doing, which is essentially an authoritarian government. He's essentially a dictator.

And if you love the idea of freedom, even if Putin is good for Russia, it feels like this is the wrong man to bring freedom to Russia. And that's ultimately where the battle is, the battle for freedom. They look at America, yeah, it's a giant mess of just division and all that kind of stuff. But I think what permeates everything that's going on in America, yeah, it's a giant mess of just division and all that kind of stuff. But I think what permeates everything that's going on in America is a love of freedom. We have a different definition of what that means.

But ultimately, we want to be free to pursue the thing that we love doing, whatever that is. This country, the United States of America, allows people, whatever weird thing they're into, or amazing thing they're into, to be able to pursue that and build, if it's like engineering, to build that thing, or if it's art, to create that thing and not be stopped by kind of institutional

breaks that slow you down and so like the left defines that as saying you know if you're a minority then there's all these institutions that slow you down in terms of your ability to be free and expressing your yourself to your fullest potential. And then people on the right are saying, well, there's all these, like, how do you put it nicely? But, you know, government overreach and controlling, stifling businesses, stifling conversations, stifling thought, stifling the truth, you know, by sort of saying that this is what, by using terms like white supremacy, by using all these kinds of terminology, being with stifling freedom of speech. That's people on the right are saying that about the left. But ultimately, the struggle is for freedom of speech.

And then really effectively in Putin's Russiaussia all of those freedoms are kind of absent if we're if we're honest really effectively that's an interesting way to put it because you can make an argument that the main flaw of our democracy is that every four years we change leadership. And there's a battle. As soon as the person takes office to establish who's going to be the next person in line four years from now. So oftentimes, like, this is one of the things that, to quote Chris Rock again,

he was talking about Obama. A lot of people were disappointed with Obama's first term. And he was saying you got to wait until the second term that's when you can do some really gangster shit because he knows he can't go anywhere but isn't that a strange thing that like if you had any other job right like imagine if i only had four years to do this podcast go back and listen the first four years they're fucking terrible i didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't good at it yet. I needed to figure out how to communicate with people.

And I think I'm better today than I was yesterday. And I think I'll be better tomorrow than I am today. And I think you get better if you care, if you work at it. Is that the same thing with someone who runs a government? I would imagine there's some similarities and parallels. Now, the problem with that is, of course, you have to, the best case scenario is you have a benevolent dictator. You have a dictator that cares, but realizes like, you fucking idiots, I need to take care of you, but I really do love taking care of you. And I'm going to do it within

your best interests. And I'm going to try to do my very best to run this country the right way. I don't think anybody thinks that of any of our presidents. I think everybody thinks that our presidents are beholden to special interest groups and lobbyists and all the people that got them into positions of power in the first place. Modern-day presidents, I think. And also that when they get out, we know what they're doing. They're going to go right to bankers and start doing speeches for five hundred thousand dollars and all that shit we know it's a scam but we hope they do the best they can with the system that's

in place as corrupt as it is as as fucking entangled with money as it is but if there was someone like a putin character like an american putin like some who would it be like some fucking clint eastwood type dude who just like you know what i mean jaco willing type of character yeah jaco willing i'm all for it jaco for president well it's a good question whether i mean this is exactly to me there an exact parallel between your trajectory in podcasts, which have been 11 years, and Putin. But I haven't poisoned anybody, allegedly. He hasn't poisoned anybody, allegedly. Alleged. What's in this drink?

I think the question is whether, in your case, fame. But there's power there, too, changes you. And in the case of Putin, does power change you? I use my power as much as possible to help other people. But why? Because I like it. I like helping people. I really do.

I like letting people know about you. I like letting people know about Tim Dillon. I like letting people know about funny comedians and good people and really interesting authors and guys like Carl Hart. I like people to know about interesting people. I don't feel comfortable with the position that I'm in and I don't deserve it. And if people say I don't deserve it, you're right. Guess what? Nobody deserves it. I know I don't deserve it. It's unbalanced. It's disproportionate. I'm aware of it.

I'm 100% aware of it. So I do my best to spread the love. That's what I try to do. You know? Well, part of being a comedian, you get made fun of by your friends, and there's people that put you in check. That's the concern with power in the political spectrum. Right.

There's, I think, how many people can really talk to putin and being and say nobody bro you uh you were kind of a dick last night well does putin have anyone that's smarter than him that he's friends with too that he recognizes you know like i have a gang of people that are way smarter than me that i can talk to you know know, I can call them up. I go, hey, man. But the important thing is something in your genetics keeps saying that they're smarter than you. You can also convince yourself that you're smarter than them. No. No, I mean, but it's possible.

Human beings do that. It's like. I think it's my martial arts background, too. I think there's a few things that contribute to the development of a human being like one of them is just being humbled by whatever the mechanisms and seems like martial art jiu-jitsu yeah so uniquely humbling yeah and and and daily you know i this is why sorry i'm uh i'm a little biased in being open-minded towards Putin because of his judo background. He's legit.

He's legit. I mean, when you watch... Look, I know those guys are going with him. They're not trying to kill him. But I've watched Putin train. And I watch his technique. You know, I'm not a judoka. I have no belt in judo.

Although, I think Wikipedia says I have a belt in judo. I have zero belts in judo. I think wikipedia says i have a belt in judo i have zero belts in judo i know like two hip throws but he's unquestionably legit he's a real black belt you know there's no doubt about it i watch him move he knows what he's doing and actually really good at it like there's people that do judo can understand there's uh There's a way when you watch a martial artist move, you understand this person understands the art. Yeah. And he is one of those.

They have refined technique. Yeah. Yeah. They've learned from real masters. And were humble for long periods. This isn't some little tool you learn while you're part of the KGB. He really loved Judo. This isn't some little tool you learn while you're part of the KGB.

He really loved judo. And for some reason, I might be a sucker and biased in that sense, it makes me feel like this person is human. You got a little bit of a Putin crush. You got a Putin crush on you. Putin crush? No. I'm fascinated by the man. Yeah.

But I'm also fascinated by Donald Trump. I'm fascinated by the man but I'm also fascinated by Donald Trump I'm fascinated by Barack Obama by the complexity of what makes a human being and by the way, I'm a sucker for good speeches people who are saying that Joe Biden's speech in the inauguration I don't know if you heard it

is a good speech I think Barack Obama the whole time was sitting in the Bernie Sanders stance saying like, hold my beer that was a terrible speech I think Barack Obama the whole time was sitting in the Bernie Sanders stance saying, like, hold my beer. That was a terrible speech. There's such an opportunity to crush it right now. Really?

With a beautiful speech. And it was like very generic positive unity kind of. But if you want to do a unity speech, you better bring your best Martin Luther King Jr. You better bring your best Martin Luther King Jr. You better bring your best Obama. That sucked. But I'm fascinated by these complicated people that come to power. Obama is one of them.

I think he's way more fascinating than people give him credit for. Yeah, I agree. There's no way he's not. You know, raised by a single mother, you know, in Hawaii. He's an interesting character. And, you know, rose to the highest ranks of government in a very unusual way. You know, he's our best statesman that we've ever had, in my opinion. You know, I mean, people love Kennedy because he died.

If Kennedy lived, who knows what we'd think of him. Probably hate him after the first term. He was very hated when he died. Yeah, he's a special human. But also, to be special, to be fascinating, you don't have to be our best. You can be our worst. Yeah, but he was our best statesman. Our best communicator.

I mean, he was the smoothest and the cleanest in his but in at the time Kennedy bucked the system harder than anybody I mean I'm sure you've heard this speech that Kennedy gave about secret societies you know yeah it's a brilliant speech it's absolutely brilliant and that was before I fucking shot him in the head they They're like, that's enough of this. Because he was combating the very thing that ultimately murdered him. And his whole speech, I mean, his are really strong speeches, which is like. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,

not because they're easy, because they're hard. And also ask not what you can do what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country and he has a more

general one about ask not what America can do for you ask what you can do for the world something like that yeah no he was amazing

in a lot of ways and didn't you know wasn't around that long died in his 40s you know the good ones die young can I read a poem? Fuck yeah

We'll end it with this Yeah We have a tradition Yeah Maybe one day When I bring a robot You'll actually wear a suit Do you still have that same

Goofy watch? That thing is gigantic People It's the same Amazon Do you like it? I like it Are you attached to it? Oh like

Like one of Like John Wick style Like if you kill my dog I like it. Are you attached to it? Oh, like John Wick style, like if you kill my dog, I will destroy all of you? No. I feel like it's ridiculous for you. Yeah. Some of the things... It's unnecessary. Do you use it for anything other than the time? Yeah, that's

what a watch is for, bro. Other than the time. Yeah. Other than the time. No. Oh, I do not use it for anything but to check the time why do you need a watch so large this is the problem with americans they want their heart rate they want their sleep schedule that's not what i'm saying i don't want listen you want what do you uh what do you want from a watch i want it to talk dirty to you take this that's yours now that that's an omega and that has a moon phase you see that moon in the

bottom that's yours that's yours you see the moon on the bottom of it do you see that this is a happy man right now that's my watch that's my favorite watch by the way do you see the the moon in the bottom of it yep that is the actual moon phase it's a real high resolution photograph see the moon in the bottom of it? Yep. That is the actual moon phase. It's a real high-resolution photograph of the moon, and as the moon rises, it will rise. It's set in the position where the moon is currently. Oh, that's awesome. Fuck yeah, it's awesome. Take that piece of shit, stupid fucking Frisbee you got on your wrist.

You can't get this back because you just did it on record. It's yours, man. Joe, thank you so much. This is a steampunk watch. That fucking stupid thing. The robot writes it and erases it every minute. That's so dumb. But that watch, that watch is my favorite watch,

and I want you to have it. Joe, thank you. My pleasure. See that? You got a big-ass wrist. Yeah. I do. Well, we can get it sized for you no no this is perfect

but uh fuck man but you see the little moon thank you so much you see it at the bottom wait till it comes full moon you get a real sense of what it looks like it's beautiful it's a beautiful high resolution image and one of the reasons why i like omegas first of all the astronauts that went to the moon allegedly allegedly, they wore Omegas. But also, it doesn't have the same sort of cachet value as Rolexes. A lot of like the people that have a peripheral understanding of watches, but they're fucking phenomenal watches. They make amazing watches. I have a bunch of Omegas.

I love them. But that is my favorite watch, and you have my favorite watch now. Joe. Thank you. omegas i love them but that is my favorite watch and you have my favorite watch now joe thank you actually this is the one thing i think a watch could add is perspective on our like the cosmic scale that's why i like that watch and that's why i think you should have it because i would look that watch and i would say this is where we are right now with the moon cycle yeah and when when it comes full moon like right now it's just kind of like a little it's probably a quarter moon or something like yeah yeah well when it comes full noon you'll get a real sense of what it actually looks like

because it's beautiful it's a beautiful high resolution image of the moon with like little stars behind it see how much shit connor got for his watch this week yeah but that's ridiculous watch ridiculous i don't like those watches i mean look you could like whatever you like yeah that that's a million dollars his watch that's preposterous it's all filled with diamonds and shit i don't own a single diamond i've never had a diamond in my life and i want a fucking diamond i like engineering that's what i like i'm a fan of engineering and what i like about that watch is the engineering behind it is that there it's a mechanical watch meaning the time is kept within like a second or two i don't know what it is like

a day or i forget what the what it is but also with a complication there's this crazy complication that shows the moon rising across and when the when it goes dark and this i know when i can go outside and see the stars because i look at my watch and when my watch shows me no moon that's when i go outside on my deck because when i go outside of my deck because when i go outside of my deck i know i'm just gonna see nothing but stars and no moon at all no light pollution just beautiful stars in the sky i'm gonna take care of this take care of it my brother take care of it read your poem this one maybe it doesn't make sense for a white guy from russia to read but i the reason i love you're a different kind of white guy.

Different kind. White people from Russia are a different kind of white people. Yeah. I've been saying that about fighters for a long time. Russian fighters, that's a different kind of white people. But when I came to this country, what I fell in love with is the freedom. That a silly fucking guy like me

can do anything I want with my life. And so this one is from Maya Angelou called Caged Bird. She has really good, one of the literary geniuses that America's ever produced. But she mostly talks about the freedom in the context of racism. But this is bigger than that. This is about freedom in general. Freedom of the human spirit. It's called Cage Bird by Maya Angelou.

The free bird leaps on the back of the wind and floats downstream to the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky. But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars of rage. His wings are clipped and his feet are tied, so he opens his throat to sing. The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of the things unknown but longed for still,

and his tune is heard on the distant hill, For the caged bird sings of freedom. The free bird thinks of another breeze, And trade wings soft through the sighing trees, And the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn, and he names the sky his own. But a caged bird stands on the graves of dreams. His shadow shouts on a nightmare scream. His wings are clipped, and his feet are tied. So he opens his throat to sing. The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of things unknown, but long for still. That's beautiful.

She's an incredible person, and this is an incredible country. I love America. Lex, free me, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, brother. God bless you all. Bye-bye. My pleasure. Thank you for being here.

Goodbye, everybody.