The Joe Rogan Experience - #1617 - Mike Baker

Episode Date: March 10, 2021

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer. He is now the president and cofounder of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm. Mike is also the host of "Black Files Declassified" now available on Discovery+.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day that sound is the sweet and sultry sound of mike baker lighting a cigar hey now good to see you buddy what's. What's happening? Good to be seen. Good to be seen. You know, not much going on in these times of ours. I'm very excited to talk to you because I had a guy on Jamie Metzl yesterday, a scientist who scared the shit out of me, talking about China. He was talking about China. We were talking about China amassing naval power. China's taking over tech companies and how huge they're getting and how much influence they have over their people as opposed to the way we do it.

Well, he's not wrong. No. Yeah, I can't spot the line in what you just said. But, I mean, look, I mean, there's so much we can talk about. we can talk about, but if you think about it, just in the past handful of months, there was this SolarWinds hack, right, by the Russians. So the Russians go in, they hack into a company called SolarWinds that is an IT management software company that happens to be fairly deep into government organizations, agencies, Treasury, and a variety of others throughout the U.S. government. And they're also into parts of the intel community,

defense department, and a lot of commercial sectors. So anyway, the Russians figure this out. Now, around about December or January, Microsoft identified this as a problem. And I think it was the head of Microsoft said, it looks like the most sophisticated attack we've ever seen. So this is December, January timeframe. And they're still trying to figure out the depth of this hack by Russians. At the same time, and going back months and months and months and months before, the Chinese had been engaged in

a more sophisticated attack, that while everyone is focused on what's going on and so fully aware that we got problems right from from nation states out there who don't like us everybody's talking about solar winds and now it's you know they've just now released information about the Chinese attack against Microsoft exchange servers running the Exchange email systems. And this thing is enormous. And so the Chinese, yeah, I mean, we've been so focused for four years on the Russians, you know, and they're out there

to cause us all sorts of problems, so we should be focused on them. But it's China that's the biggest problem. And so this guy is absolutely right. Jamie's right. It was terrifying. Yeah. Listen to what he was talking about, the way he was explaining how they have this plan.

I think he said 2049 to be the global superpower of the world and essentially take the place of what America used to be. Yeah. Do it their way. And do it their way, which means we're going to bypass all the costs and the heavy lift of research and development over the years, and we're just going to steal everything. And they've been doing it for decades. So people think, oh, China, it's a problem. We've talked about this before, this idea that perhaps this is just something relatively new

or it's popped up during the previous administration of Trump. And honest to God's truth is it's been going on for decades. And they decided that that's how they're going to get to the top of the food chain is by stealing shit, because it's a lot easier to hoover up everything, and then reverse engineer it. And the technology has made it even easier, right? It used to be old school, they'd go out and recruit somebody, they'd find some Chinese American working for a company here in the States. They'd appeal to sort of, you know, you got to help the motherland, and they would.

And that was the old school way of doing it. But, you know, cyber theft is, it's incredible what they're able to do. And this latest attack, well, they're still trying to sort out the mess, right? So when they do this, so if they get into this email server, are they targeting anything specific?

Is there specific companies? Are they just like throwing a net out there and seeing what they catch? Yes, is the answer to both of those. It looks like what happened here was that their initial point of attack or their initial focus was intelligence. So then it branched out, and it branched out very, very quickly to hit everything, small companies, medium-sized companies. And that's kind of the MO for the Chinese, the Chinese regime, right, and their intel operations, they've got this long vision and they've also got the resources and they've got the desire to hoover up everything and then sort it out later.

We take, as a country, we take a very sort of targeted approach, right? We say, okay, this is a piece of information that's a priority tasking for the U.S., for our national security. We're going to go out. We're going to figure out who has access to it. We're going to develop a very sort of surgical strike to figure out how do we get to somebody who's got this piece of information. That's typically how we or some of our allies would operate. The Russians, the Chinese have always had a different approach.

I mean the Russians is less elegant. The Russians would just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. But? But the Chinese, they've got this long view, and they've also got this ability. And so in this particular attack that they're still trying to assess, that was perpetrated by, you know, Chinese state-sponsored hackers based in China, they're just going to take everything, and then they'll sift through it. They'll figure out what they got. A lot of it's going to be just, you know, chafe, not of interest, but they're going to find a lot of gold in there too. And they're willing to do that because they've got the patience to do it. They'll develop a target. They'll develop a potential

recruit for years and years and years, or they'll infiltrate a society or an organization, right? They'll put a student out here who's actually working for the PLA for their intel operations, and they'll put them out as an undergrad, and then they'll go to school, and they'll get good grades, and they'll go to grad school, and they'll get a job, they'll get another job, and then 30 years down the line, it may pay off, but they're willing to make that investment so all right so we should be scared well we shouldn't be scared but we said yeah uh we i don't think we should be scared but i think what we should be is is pragmatic and understand why uh for instance i mean there was a lot of you

know hue and cry over the past four years. I can't believe I just said hue and cry. I don't even know what that means. I don't know. It's old timey. Is it? Oh, by golly. Look at me. It's like the cat's pajamas. It's so, you know, four years of Trump and sort of his antagonistic relationship with China and people were all wringing their hands in Washington, D.C. You know, sort of the think tankers and the traditional pundits and the diplomats of the U.S., you know, the long term people.

Oh, my God, we've got this adversarial relationship with China. Well, you know what? We better. Right. So that's not a bad thing. So I'm hoping the current administration maintains to some degree. And we'll see what happens. They still haven't responded to

the SolarWinds, to the Russian attack, right? They're talking about it. Now they're saying they're going to engage in several clandestine retaliatory acts. Well, it's not that clandestine because they've announced that they're going to do it. And so, you know, but I'm hoping that they will take serious action against the SolarWinds Russian Act. But they've got to with China. They've got to maintain this posture. We've got to make it clear and understood to the Chinese regime that we're not going to put up with this shit. They're going to keep doing it, but we've got to make it painful for them.

So how do you make it painful? Well, you know, it's the old word sanctions. You've got to go with the sanctions because there's not much else. Trade wars. You know, I know everybody hates a trade war. Not everybody. But you've got to find a way because the problem with cyber shenanigans is that there's no real clear definition, right? We know if a country fires a ballistic missile off, you know, we know what the retaliatory act is. We know what an appropriate response is. In cyberspace, when you're talking about warfare, coming up with a definition is very difficult and hasn't been done

yet. We've got cyber command, right? And we're still trying to sort out what are appropriate responses because it can escalate quickly, right? Next thing they could shut down our infrastructure right well that's what I wanted to talk to you about supposedly what they did in India so if you could explain that to people they shut down the power grid in India allegedly they said they didn't do it but apparently there was some sort of a warning about the power going out right yeah yeah they. They've done it. I mean, the Russians did it famously in Ukraine, right? I mean, not that long ago. And China's ability to interfere in infrastructure here in the U.S.

or in India or with our allies is because for years now, they've been probing. There's been testing going on. You know, we talk about, it's a good example. We talk about how in the US we have three grids. And I think people were stunned to find out that Texas has its own power grid. Well, yeah. But it's not so much, people were like, oh my God, look at Texas. They're terrible because they wanted to make it a political thing. They wanted to make it sound like the reason why it's so terrible is because it's Republicans and they want their own independence. Well, no. All three grids are fucked. The east and the west and the Texas grids are all cobbled together over the years.

And they were never built to withstand physical attacks. I mean, you could drive by any substation, right? You could get close enough to pee on it. And they certainly were never designed to withstand a cyber attack. So over the years, what goes on is essentially a mapping exercise, right? Where whether it's the Russians, whether it's the Chinese, whether it's the North Koreans using Chinese capabilities, whether it's the Iranians, whomever, they're in there probing and trying to understand the weaknesses, and they're drawing up a map. Now, the reason why they're doing that is to have a game plan, right? And I guarantee you, sitting

on a desk somewhere not too far from, you know, Xi's office is a playbook that says, if this thing escalates, here's what we're going to do. And if you think that it was bad in Texas, you know, a couple weeks ago when, you know, the power was out and it was bad. But think about that lasting for 8, 10, 12 weeks around the country. Power grid shutdown, what happens? You can't transport shit, right? You can't get cash. Fuel doesn't get to the gas stations. Food doesn't get to the stores. There's, you know, depending on the time of year, heat issues, obviously, water supplies. And that's where the next big battle is going to be fought, right? They're going to bring it to the homeland. And we will do the same thing, right? It's not like we're not

doing it because people always say when I say something like that well the u.s does it too i think well fuck yeah the u.s does it we better we better hope we're we're prepared does that frustrate you when people say that well the u.s does it too yeah it does in a sense because and this is where i think um you know that now personal opinion comes into it look i spent most of my my adult life overseas and i like to think that I've got a fairly pragmatic view on things. I do admit that I, you know, obviously, look, I look at the U.S., and I like to think, and I have seen on occasion, we do a lot of things for the right reasons.

Sometimes we don't do it properly, right? We make mistakes. Of course we make mistakes. But we try to self-correct. I guarantee you, if we're talking about the major powers out there, if we're talking about China and us, if we're talking about the Chinese regime, I'm talking about obviously, if we're talking about the Russians, the Iranians, the North Koreans, we better hope that we stay up there, right? And are able to exert influence and leverage and control the top, right? Because if it's, and again,

maybe I'm wrong here, but the Chinese don't view anything in an altruistic manner, the Chinese regime, right? It's all about self-interest. And sometimes I'll tell you what's frustrating. Sometimes we seem to be the only country out there that apologizes, right, for that sort of thing. And so when we act in our own best interest, and we go, well, we're really sorry about that. We're kind of acting in our own best interest. Well, every other nation does it, and they don't give a fuck. Yeah, but shouldn't we be the moral high ground

for the world? I think we should. I think it's nice if we do all the same shit they do. We say, sorry. Yeah. As long as we do all the same shit. I guess it doesn't cost anything to say sorry. It's not a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing. We're setting a tone. Yeah, I guess that's true. As long as we're also the same shit. I guess it doesn't cost anything to say sorry. It's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. We're setting a tone. Yeah, I guess that's true. As long as we're also then at the same time acting at our own best interest. Because we have to be, again, we have to be pragmatic. If we think that somehow, you know, look at climate change. Obviously, it's back on the table. It's a big issue.

It's a major policy direction. Hey, fine, great. Who doesn't want clean energy? direction hey fine great who doesn't want clean energy but you know to to to act as if china's not the you know the number one polluter out there is insane yeah that's that's where it gets weird yeah it does it gets a little weird giant difference between the amount of particulates the amount of pollution the amount of co2 you know um i think they've they've tried hard to mitigate that over the last few years in particular. But you remember when they had the Beijing Olympics?

Yes. And they had to shut everything down because the air quality was so bad that the athletes, you know, it would actually be dangerous for the athletes to perform and to compete under those conditions. Sorry, I'm lighting my cigar. Light it up, baby. Don't worry about it. I'm not allowed to smoke cigars in the house because I don't want to set a bad example for Scooter and Sluggo and Muggsy.

Well, I'm allowed to in the house, but I get yelled at by the kids. Do you have air handlers in any part of your house? No, I have a thing, one of those purifiers, those air things that suck things out. And I have some spray that I bought on Amazon that's supposed to kill the spray. You like Febreze? Yeah, and in my office, I have a window window thing I open the windows and get the air out it's old school that's good yeah it works with all women man I saw women in my fucking house so he's women in there I like being a man every now and then we got the fights on I smoke a

cigar put my feet up I feel like a man again dude my baker no I know I know look I got a different situation. My wife is completely outnumbered, right? Even with the pets, except for we got a Siberian hamster as a female, we think. I got a male dog, at least. Yeah. There you go. How's he doing? Marshall? He's awesome. Marshall, right? He's the best. Yeah. Dogs.

Oh my God, dogs are great. But, so yeah, the Chinese is... Not good. I hate to, you know, I hate to, I think I think sometimes people say I quit kicking the Chinese in the ass. But the regime really does have a plan, as you pointed out. They would like to accelerate that plan to before 2049. And it's everything. It's the aggression in the South Pacific seas. It's their buildup of their military, particularly the Navy. It's it's primarily the part that is most frustrating is the theft of intellectual property. And

I mean, look, this hack that I just talked about earlier with Microsoft, with the exchange, we're getting screwed, right? So they're out there. We don't know the extent. We know it's huge. We don't know the extent yet of this attack. But do you think that's going to stop? Is Microsoft going to stop doing business in China? No. Absolutely not. No.

Facebook is banned. You know what's not banned? Microsoft, right? LinkedIn, right? Bing, right? Who the fuck uses Bing? I know. Bing, I know.

I didn't even know it was still in existence. I a windows laptop it wants to pull up bing sometimes i'm like what are you doing please get out of here bing um but it's at that point bing is it how bad is bing is it bad is it it's not bad bad of bing it's just no one's using it right i'd use duck duck go that's what i like because duck duck go gives me uncurated information. That's good. You know, and it doesn't, DuckDuckGo doesn't save your information. It's not trying to, like, use your data. And it just gives you a search.

Do you know what it is? Are you aware of it? Shit, no. No. Look at me. I know how to do a couple of things on my laptop. One of them is send emails. I've looked for things on Google, and I couldn't find them page after page.

I looked on DuckDuckGo and I find them instantly. DuckDuckGo does not censor or curate any of the information. It just tries to search out keywords that you're looking for. So here's a perfect example. How do you know it's not curated though? Well, the difference is the way I try to find things on Google and try to find things on duckduckgo so this is a good example there was a doctor in florida who died immediately after the coveted vaccination whether it's causation or correlation or just random bad luck this guy was in his 50s he's was relatively healthy as far as the article says.

Takes a COVID vaccination, dies. So I'm trying to find out what this is because somebody sent it to me. And then I Google it. I cannot find it. Two, three, four pages in, can't find it. Duck, duck, go. First page right away. I'm like, well, something's happening.

I think Google is trying to – look, I think they're doing it for altruistic purposes. I think they think that they're being good citizens and good human beings, trying to encourage people to get vaccinated. And they want to discourage anti-vax propaganda. If you have 320 million people that get vaccinated you're going to have a hundred two hundred a thousand two thousand horror stories that's just yeah that's if you give if you give 320 million people tylenol you're going to have 2 000 horror stories right agreed yeah right yeah i remember the tylenol scale i remember that well that was different though that was someone was poisoned exactly yeah but i mean if you just give them i, Tylenol might not be the best example, but

there's a lot of medication that if you give people, some people, for whatever reason, like I'm not allergic to dogs, but my wife's allergic to dogs. You know, like I'm not, you know, some people, like my friend Brian, his mom, if she even licks a Brazil nut, she's dead. Yeah. You know? Yeah, my wife's like that with uh hazelnuts i don't know what the fuck that is but this is also the case with virtually anything that gets introduced to the

human body we vary so much biologically that if you have a wide swath of people if you have an enormous number 330 plus million that you're gonna have a few horrible cases now that doesn't mean that people shouldn't get vaccinated. It doesn't mean people shouldn't eat Brazil nuts. It just means you should kind of have access to all the information. But we also should have unbiased, objective reporting of these things. And someone should state it that way. And I try to do that.

Is DuckDuckGo, is that spelled? Is it some funky spelling? It's just an app. It's an app. I have them on my phone. It's spelled like duck. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

It's not like D-U-K or anything. No, no, no. It's stupid shit. Some clever thing. It actually has a duck and the logo's a duck. Ducks are adorable.

But I like it. We're getting a farm duck. Oh. Yeah, I know. Their eggs taste like shit, though. Have you ever had duck eggs? No, we just, I have had duck eggs, yeah.

I bought a fucking dozen duck eggs. I gave them to my dog. Where'd you get duck eggs from? From some fucking weirdo market. Yeah, farm-to-table market. Yeah, some weirdo market serving duck eggs. They suck.

They're in fear. They're slimy. We're just getting the duck eggs, the farm duck for entertainment purposes. But they leave like a film on your mouth. Well, that's good to know. I'm going to tell my boys, don't eat the duck eggs. Like if you blew Donald Duck, it'd probably be the same as eating a duck egg.

I mean, look, it's a matter of starving to death. The only person I know about that would be Daisy. Quail eggs, though, are delicious. You ever had quail eggs? Quail eggs are delicious. I had a quail egg last night. Did you? I did.

Look at your fancy culinary style. I was sitting on top of some tuna tartare. Oh, look at tuna tartare. I know. Look at you. Whale eggs. Whale. Let me just adjust my ascot.

Did it have tiny sprinkling of parsley all minced up? I believe there might have been foam on the plate too. Remember that was a big thing. Foam. We're going to put foam on it.

Don't put foam on my plate. When people do that drizzle of like balsamic. Put a little bit there and it goes creep to creep. No, it's,

what was I gonna say something about oh the Russians you talk about the inability to get information so and you talk about vaccines so

just something popped in my head the Russians are at it again right so they did the solo wins they know that retaliation is you have a hard time with that word

I do fuck it hell what's the problem retaliation retaliation that's good it's not you're not even from you're kind of from another country, but it's England. Right?

You were born in England? Yeah. Aluminium. Yeah. That's a weird one. And tires with a Y. Yeah. We want to put, we want to put, put extra.

But you're American basically. Oh, sure. Yeah. How American are you? First and foremost. When were you born there? You lived there to how long? My childhood.

And then I moved to Australia. What year did you move to America? I did my final year of high school in America. You can't be trusted. Of course I can't be. You're basically a foreigner. I'm a very trustworthy person. I feel like he's a foreign agent working for the CIA.

Right, Jamie? Don't you feel this way? That seems harsh, Jamie. Don't say yes, Jamie. And I'm a big fan of Australians. I know there's pressure to say yes. Australians are basically, I feel like- Australians are great. Yeah. Say nothing bad about Australians. No, I fucking love Australia. I know it's pressure to say yes. Australians are basically, I feel like... Australians are great.

Yeah. Say nothing bad about Australians. No, I fucking love Australia. If I was going to live anywhere outside the United States and Canada, I would live in Australia

100%. Yeah. Or New Zealand. New Zealand's beautiful. I've never even been to New Zealand, but I love New Zealanders. I'm surprised at that.

I mean, that's a beautiful place. I'm afraid I'll stay. Yeah, well, it's a long ways away. You know what? People say it's a great place I'm afraid I'll stay yeah well it's a it's a long ways away you know people say people say it's a great place

to ride out the pandemic it's no better than Idaho Idaho's a great place to ride out the pandemic that's a good place but it's a lot colder than New Zealand motherfucker

yeah no that's that's not incorrect New Zealand looks like Hobbit land but the Russians let me tell you about what the Russians

are up to now having just on the heels of the SolarWinds hack which was very successful for them, and we still don't know how much intel they've pulled, and it's probably a great deal.

But now, you know what they're doing, is they are engaged in a covert action campaign, a covert, basically a propaganda campaign, against U.S. vaccines, Pfizer in particular. Against them? Yes. Basically, what they're doing is they're using social media and they're seeding information about, well, this Pfizer vaccine. I don't know if it's really legit, right? Because the Russians created their own vaccine. This is basically a monetary decision for them.

They're trying to sell their Sputnik vaccine. Is that what it's called? It's called Sputnik. Really? Yeah. They never got over that space race thing. So they call it Sputnik. They're trying to sell it to every country that'll buy it, right? And so what they're trying to do is they're trying to push down, they're trying to create a lack of credibility in the Pfizer vaccine in particular, U.S.-made vaccines in general.

And so they're seeding stories out there. In the old days, before the internet, what you would do is you would pay off journalists, and you would get stories planted in the newspapers, when people read newspapers. And that's how you would influence, to some degree, public opinion. You do other things. The Russians, you know, they're very good at this. But that was one of the old days, the ways that you would do it. Now, as we know from the elections in the past, they're using that same methodology that they did during the elections to sort of like, you know, put in this idea that our electoral system isn't credible, that there's problems with it. That's in their benefit. But they're also now doing it as far as the vaccines go. And primarily the driver there is a monetary issue, right? They just want to sell Sputnik. It really is called Sputnik. It's really called Sputnik.

It's the Sputnik. Yeah. By the way, my friend who's a doctor took the Russian vaccine. He got a hold of the Russian vaccine a few months ago. He said zero side effects. He said it was fine. Did he do it as an experiment or did he do it because it was the only vaccine he could get? He can get whatever he wants.

I think, well, he's a really fucking smart guy. He's one of the smartest people I know. And he just... You know a lot of smart people, so that's pretty impressive. He's a genius. Like a legitimate genius. And he decided that he wanted to take the Russian vaccine. I haven't talked to him about it in depth, but he said

based on the research that he did on the vaccine, he said it's as legit as any of them. He had access to it. Is it an mRNA virus the same or vaccine rather is the same as Pfizer and Moderna? Yeah, I think it's using the same technology and the development of it was kind of the same, I think. But they just. But they raced it out there, right? So and they what they don't have to do, it's like a lot of other things overseas, they don't

necessarily have the FDA, you know, breathing down their neck saying, these are the sort of clinical trials you've got to go through. These are the sort of approvals you need. So part of the problem that they've been facing with Sputnik is like, you got this out here pretty quick, right? And so- They probably tested it on like Pussy Riot and political dissidents. Oh, God.

You know Pussy Riot? Yeah. The band? Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I Political Dissidence. Oh, God. You know Pussy Riot? Yeah. The band? Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. I got all their albums. No, I don't.

I have a t-shirt back in my LA house. I need to bring it over here. It's Free Pussy Riot. I was wearing it on podcast. Haven't you sold the LA house? I have two LA houses. I sold one of them. Oh, okay.

I'm listening to you. You know? Yeah, look at me. I'm big on the real estate market. He knows things. He slipped up there. Didn't he, Jamie at me. I'm big on the real estate market. He knows things. He slipped up there, didn't he, Jamie? Yeah. He slipped up a little bit.

I didn't slip up, no. Sometimes you want to seed the fact that there's a piece of information floating out there. You put it in a sidebar conversation. So anyway, bottom line is, I don't want to sound like one of those people, but we just have to be pragmatic, right? Yes. And so to go back to that question you had, which I think is very interesting is do I get frustrated by people saying, well, the U S does it too. Fuck. Yeah. It's a hostile world out there, whether you want to believe it or not.

Right. It's, it's, it's not a happy place out there. And there's a lot of people that would, would like to see us, you know, at the bottom of the food chain. And so, you know, all those people that say, well, the U S does it too. Yes, we do. And you know what? You're sitting here in the U.S. and you're using the benefits of being here in the U.S. So you probably want to, on occasion, just on occasion, maybe root for the home team. I think it's a natural thing that people do when one country is the most innovative, the most militarily successful. There's a lot of shit about the United States that angers people that even are a part of the United States in terms of our interventionalist foreign policy. I mean, you've got guys like Ron Paul who don't think we should be anywhere.

We should be controlling the United States. And you've got other people that think that we should go over there and fucking kick ass and conquer the whole globe and keep them on the straight and narrow the way allegedly we are but the thing that bothers me more than anything about the united states currently is like there's a there's there's an unnecessary divide that i see amongst us there's like there's a racial divide there's a sexual orientation divide there's a and i i wonder how much of this is cultivated and how much of this is curated like when i see like even weird things that don't make sense like uh in connecticut 15 of their state titles uh state uh records for women's athletics are held by two biological males who identify as females tell me look yeah there's is one thing there's there's one thing to

be tolerant and to be open-minded but there's one thing to look at the whole picture and go what better way across the board with everything to get people upset and frustrated and distracted and constantly engaged in arguments and battle than to seed social media with nonsense and constant propaganda and all... We know from the Internet Research Agency and Renee DiResta's work and all this that Russia in particular and probably China and Iran are constantly flooding social media with arguments against all sorts of policies and pro all sorts of other policies simultaneously just to encourage argument. And you wonder how much of the racial divide in America is real. For sure there's real racists in America. Of course, yeah, yeah. courage argument and you wonder like how much of the racial divide in america is real for sure there's real racists in america but also for sure there's a lot of like malarkey there's a lot of

shit that's like most of us get along yeah most of us get along most of us i can't i agree with you no republicans are democrats most don't give a shit because they're worried about their daily fucking life they're worried about their children they're worried about the same thing it's like that old sting song the russians love their children. They're worried about the same thing. It's like that old Sting song, the Russians love their children too. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, remember that? Well done.

You just quoted Sting. I love Sting. I think what's happening is the fucking, the world is so filled with information and there's some players that are manipulating that information to keep people being antagonistic against each other. And the thing is, like, they're over there,

and we think, oh, these motherfuckers are coming after us. They're doing this. They're hacking this. No one is together, right? Human beings are supposed to be like you and I are right now, having a cocktail, smoking a cigar, sitting across from each other. And we all basically want the same things. We want to be healthy and successful we

want the best for our kids yes yes we want the best for our community we want to be happy we want to be happy and there's there's too many filters in this life between human beings sitting down and communicating with each other and breaking bread with each other and talking with each other there's too many there's too many filters well Well, I will say, nobody should underestimate that point that you just made earlier, which is that there is a very active covert action wing within the Russian government, within Chinese intel, and their whole point sometimes is not to do anything other than just to sow distrust and instability and chaos. People say, well, why would they do that? Well, they do it because it's in their best

interest. Again, going back to that same thought. So is it in the, say, the Russian's best interest to kind of see the idea of, man, you know what? Domestic terrorism and racism, that's your top priority in the States. Well, of course it is. And so we feed into that, right? Right. And we do our own part too, right? There's this desire to slice and dice the demographic, right, for political purposes, right? If I can control this block or if I can control that block, then I can win the election, right?

Yeah. Well, that's fucked up, right? It's fucked up. And I'm old enough to, you know, remember the riots. I mean, okay, I was watching TV and as a kid, but the riots of the 60s and that whole civil rights process. And I'll be honest with you, you know, up until a handful of years ago, I really thought we'd moved on. I thought, you know, it was all about who you are as a person, right? Your character, as Martin Luther King used to talk about. I think you'd be disgusted by this idea that it's all about the color of your skin.

That's bullshit. It is bullshit. And it's also the sexual orientation. I don't give a fuck what your sexual orientation is. I don't need to celebrate it, but I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. I think these are attack vectors. Yes, that's a good way to put it there are ways that

people can figure out a way to the sow the seeds of dissent and and discontent and i think that you know one of the things that happened that was really uh we talked about the uh whole situation with um the power grid here it was really sad to me to watch people on the left saying hey you know hey texas you know you still want your independence now yes like look what happened like man you got babies freezing to death you know you got people without clean water like is is is that who you are because as an american i don't give a fuck if you're a republican or a democrat i share ideas from both sides i'm i'm kind of a hybrid in a lot of ways. I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment. I'm a big supporter of the military. But I'm very liberal.

I'm socially very liberal. I don't buy this idea that I have to be a part of one party or another party. I 100% support gay rights. I 100% support women's rights, civil rights, trans rights, across the board, but not at the expense of other people. Yeah. Which is why I'm against this whole idea of trans athletes competing against biological females. But it's also why I'm also in support of the Second Amendment. Some people, they're raised poorly. They're abused.

They're tortured. They're fucking put in foster care. they find their way into juvenile detention that they go to prison and then they're out and they have no money and then the pandemic hits and they want to rob your house if you don't think you should have a gun to protect yourself from bad people who just by circumstance or by bad fucking luck find themselves at your doorstep you're crazy you're crazy you don't love your family if you don't think you should be able to protect you if you're in a bad situation and it's you protecting people against an attack from bad people you're out of your mind you you've never experienced bad people then you've never experienced dangerous people that's

a good that's a good point. I mean, a lot of people like to imagine that there's this community of goodwill out there, and that if just given the opportunity, all people would be, you know, they would be inclined to go along with what's in your best interest. Look, I, you know. Yeah, if you could find them as babies and raise them right. When you have children, and I have children too, and there's a thing that you find out

when you have children. When I had children, it changed me as a man. It changed me as a human being. And one of the most profound ways it changed me is I stopped thinking about people as static things. I stopped thinking about a man as like, this is a 54-year-old man and here he is. I go, oh, this is a grown-up baby. And I really started thinking about

people like that i started thinking about people as children yeah that grew up and by bad circumstance by abuse by horrible environments they became this bad person but i don't think people are born bad yeah i but there's something no i agree with you i don't think they are born bad. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think they are. I think the environment creates, you know, I mean, and yeah, I mean, look, there's so many sides to this, right? I mean, like criminal justice reform. Of course, we need to focus on criminal justice reform but at the same time um you know i as somebody who owns a walk-in safe uh yeah you're never going to convince me that it's not my right to protect when you say safe you mean a

gun safe yes let's be honest you know i'm fucking gold bars in there bro i get catheters and gold bars yeah that's what i got no no i'm kidding i just a collection of dildos from the 16th century that's a way you know those things are roman roman clay dildos um where did that come from but uh no I as a walk-in gun safe um yeah look you have the right I mean think about a family you're raising your kids and the legitimate police response time is 20-30 minutes right not because you know the police are overstretched but even just because you're living in some place where that's how long it's going to take right and it's like this idea of what's a good example it's like it's like when you're you talk about well should some of the teachers in a school be armed well we have in idaho we have schools where legitimately the sheriff getting to that school

is going to take him 25 minutes because of the fucking distance, right? So yes, do I want a couple of well-trained, vetted, responsible teachers in that public school to be armed in case there is, God forbid, some incident? Yeah, fuck yeah, I do. Yeah. So that just, that to me is common sense. And then you'll get people going, well, that's just wrong. You know, well, how is it wrong? You're protecting children. Well, it's also the idea that people are mutually exclusive. Like these are two mutually exclusive ideas. Like someone can't be a math teacher, but also be trained in firearm use.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. It's a human being. If it's a human being that understands math, that guy could be good at anything else. Right. And you insist that they do. And there's ways to do it.

This is not a heavy lift to have someone trained up and then go through continuous training because they have to do that. I mean, the problem with a lot of people is they'll get scared or for whatever reason they'll think, oh, they're going to take away our guns, so I better go out and buy one. There's a huge surge in gun sales. Oh, my God. The pandemic was the best thing that ever happened in the gun industry. Oh, for the manufacturers?

Oh, absolutely. And I'm sure the NRA, too happened to the gun industry. Oh, for the manufacturers? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I'm sure the NRA, too. I'm sure the NRA's membership went up, too. The NRA's had some serious problems. Well, they have had a lot of problems. But there's not a lot of organizations that are fighting for gun rights. Yeah, there's very few. So they're important in that sense.

But do I think that it's important to insist that? But again, that's common sense right i don't want the federal government to say you know what you have to do but it's it's like the masks i i'll tell you this flying into texas right um on an aircraft i was on um one of the flight uh attendants came up and kind of tapped me on the shoulders as we were getting ready to land and said, well, be careful because, you know, Texas has gotten rid of the mask mandate.

And the point was, from the flight attendant, was, you know... Did she just say it to you? Yeah, it's going to be like... She likes you. Yeah, it's a wild west. She's trying to let you know.

Well, you know. She's like Mr. Pankhurst. You be careful out there because, you know... Because I like you. Yeah. And so, but the point my wife was sitting right next to me. There was nothing

untoward. It wasn't like, you know, we were not engaged in any shenanigans. But the point was that they looked at it and they go, oh, you know, Governor Abbott said this. And it's political, right? But the point of my story is I walked off the plane. Everybody was wearing a mask. Yeah, this is the thing the government

governor, rather, Abbott said. He said, I encourage you to wear a mask. You everybody was wearing a mask. Yeah. This is the thing the governor, Abbott, said. He said, I encourage you to wear a mask. You should still wear a mask, but I don't want the state to tell you what to do. Right. That's what I support. And if you don't want the state to tell you what to do, you shouldn't want the federal government telling you what to do. Exactly.

Exactly. But everybody I've seen in Austin, wearing a mask. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, until you go to a restaurant and you sit down then there's no mask and i don't understand that well the whole thing is nonsense you have to wear a mask when you go to pee and then you don't wear a mask when you

come back and sit down at your table like okay i mean because you know to be fair they've got you know mostly six foot distance you know they haven't the places that i've been here in texas uh they they keep the social distance but I guess my point was like you get this. And we talked about this earlier off before the show. But was the idea that some people just like to suffer and they suffer well. Right. They enjoy the fact that this is this is hard and bad. And that's really sad.

But it's true. There's people that they enjoy being depressed. It's a hard thing to even say because you don't want it to be real. You don't want there to really be people out there that like – there's some people that when we got shut into our homes and everyone was sad and everyone was scared, they enjoyed it because that's how they live all the time. Yeah, yeah.

Or it's their time to shine. Some people have really shown during the pandemic. Yeah. And I saw this post from this individual who is a professional, clearly from their job, and they posted, oh, I'm dealing with such anxiety now because of the possible return to normal and the idea that I'm going to have to travel and I won't be able to have dinner with my kids. And I'm just like, I'm thinking, fuck you. You've had that.

It was clear from the post that they've had the luxury of working from home and not losing their job. And they could teach their kids. And it's this idea of not opening the public schools. and it's this idea of not opening the public schools these kids out here who don't have wi-fi who don't have laptops who have a one-parent home who has to work all those can't afford a tutor can't make a little pod to teach their kids you know those people aren't doing well right and those kids are suffering and then you get like the people who can afford to set up a private pod for their kids and bring a tutor in and have strong Wi-Fi and can do all those things, have English as a first language, and they're doing just fine.

And they're like, well, we should not go back to school. Fuck you. Kids have disappeared off the radar during this past year, and the schools don't even know where they are in places like New York and Chicago and other places. So it's fucked up. Yeah. know it's there's narratives out there and the problem with these narratives are it's not that they're all completely inaccurate the problem is when you say when you when you espouse these narratives in a very condensed processed way like social media you get a bunch

of people that support it a bunch of people that argue against it but if it's a narrative like we should stay home we should all wear masks yeah pretty hard for people to fight against that right so people they they pile on and then and then people get addicted to like the reactions and the interactions on twitter and it's like it becomes this weird fucking method of communication the method of discussing ideas and they get people get really attached to whatever whatever they believe in whether they believe the kids should be in school to the end of time and all all fucking interactions should be done through zoom or that we should all throw away our masks and achieve herd immunity and you should take vitamin d and go out in the sun and fucking exercise and be healthier and You can do all of it, right?

You can wear a mask because, okay, fine. My freedoms aren't infringed by wearing a mask. I don't give a shit. It's not that big a deal. Yeah, but at the same time, do I want my kids back in school? Do I think it's healthy for my oldest boy, Sluggo, to be wearing his pajamas or his sweatpants all day long and learning from distance?

No. And I think that it's just so there are i i you know i do agree with the idea that there there are people that that suffer well they're kind of wielding this whole thing as a sort of justice yeah so well you know a good example the comedy community is an interesting example because one of the things that uh a lot of my professional comedian friends have found is that there's a lot of people that never worked. And when I say never, I'm exaggerating. But they weren't successful.

They weren't selling out clubs and theaters. They weren't doing well. And they're so angry that some comics have decided to go on the road again. Because a lot of places have opened up. Texas has opened up. Florida has opened up. You can go and do shows. But that's a chance to do work right i mean so it is but they're angry and they they want the the narrative is that you're doing these super spreader events people even got mad at me and dave chappelle because dave and i were doing these shows at stubs uh amphitheater in austin outside there's no evidence whatsoever that the the the that the virus spreads

outside and i mean literally none there's no evidence and then on top of that we test everyone in the crowd it's expensive it takes a long time the people get there early we test the entire crowd are you doing temperature checks so you know we're doing we're doing uh antigen tests for the entire crowd that's crazy yeah i mean that's great but it's crazy it's expensive but it's the way to do it and we had a great fucking time and we're doing it again and but some comics have been mad at that but if you go and look at the comics that are mad they're all unsuccessful yeah yeah or super liberal and they're virtue signaling they're looking to like tag on to this idea that what you're doing is bad and then what we should do is all stay home and lock down like you can go outside and by the way most people like 99.9 whatever percent

survive there was a recent study that showed that 78 percent of all the people that are hospitalized from covid are overweight yeah you've seen that, I've seen that. Where is the shame in that? All these people are talking about fat shaming. You want to talk about the super spreaders? It's people that have ignored their health. And those people need help and they need support and they need love. But there's a reality to the people that are getting sick from this. If everyone was healthy, this would almost be a non-issue.

Now, that's not a health shaming thing like we should be shaming people that are in poor health or people that are born with you know um comorbidity factors like diabetes right of course of course yeah yeah but the we're not looking at this thing a hundred percent objective if we were we would have a completely different take on it well look there's no science this that's an example. I'm focused because I got these three knuckleheads at home, right? So I'm focused on the education side of things as well, as are you. But there's no science. People believe science.

Well, of course, believe science. That's one of the funniest narratives. Believe science. Well, who the fuck doesn't believe? I mean, that's fine. But it's a political issue, right? But I think that there's no science that shows that a six-foot distance in public schools for kids is essential to their health. So, in fact, the science shows three foot. That's fine.

And what that does, though, the importance of that is logistics, right? Because it allows for you to get the schools open again. People will talk about the six foot distance. We can't get the kids back into their classrooms with six foot distance. We can't get enough of them in there. It's the little things. It's the logistics of it saying, well, get it down to three foot, which is what the science supports. And then you can get these schools, you can start opening these places back up in a responsible manner. Honest to God, we're going to look at this thing in a year or two. Maybe we won't because we're not going to look at this thing in a year or two. Maybe we

won't because we're not going to be honest with ourselves. But if we actually did an honest hot wash of this reaction to the pandemic, our reaction has been pathetic, right? Over this past year. This has not been a shining moment for us. Don't you think part of the problem is we started out with a different idea what the virus is? We started out thinking that it was going to be like the next Spanish flu and that it was going to be like the next Spanish flu, that it was going to kill. I mean, everyone was terrified, me included. I was scared of it.

In the beginning, I thought that it was going to be something that kills 10% of the population. And it didn't turn out to be that way, but we never made an adjustment. Yeah. No, I—yes, I think that's true, and I think also part of it is you can't negate or minimize the political reaction, right? If Joe Biden had been president when this thing broke, I guarantee you the reaction would have been somewhat different. The fact that Trump was in there and created so much emotion and there was such animosity. Thank God Trump wasn't pro-vaccine. We would be fucked.

Thank God Trump wasn't pro-vaccine. We would be fucked. Because he was pro so many other therapeutics, and they're like, hydroxychloroquine is racist. Thank God he didn't say anything about ivermectin or vitamin D or quercetin or any of the other things, or zinc. Yeah, but I do think that was a big issue. It was like, oh, see? He was so polarizing.

And we can't trust the vaccines because they were developed under Trump. Well, fuck it. Believe the science. They were developed by companies that have nothing but scientists and doctors and engineers working inside them. And so if you believe the science, then you better believe that they were developing vaccines that you should have been happy about. So, you know, I don't know. It's the political nature of this country. that you should have been happy about. So, you know, I don't know. It's the political nature of this country.

And again, going back to what we were talking about earlier with the Russians and the Chinese, they see that and they just keep sticking the knife in. Right. And the more they do, the more they tear the threads of our belief in the system. And the more polarized we get and the more yelling that goes on and the more bullshit people believe when they read social media and they don't bother to say, well, who wrote this?

Is this actually a scientific piece of work or is this just – and what's the origin of it? What's the outlet? And half the time the outlet is overseas someplace and then you got to dig into it. It's like an asset tracing exercise. Who owns that company? Then you find out it's owned by some Russian entity that's got an operation out of Cyprus, whatever. Well, there's a weird thing when you find something like you find a meme, like a political meme or a meme that has something to do with anything that's going on in the popular culture. And then you go to the page that runs the meme, and you find that this page has this like weird address and they're all memes and

there's no quotes to the memes there's no english and you're like what is going on here and you realize like oh my god this is like this is a propaganda page this is a page that someone or some entity has set up to try to make fun of things to try to turn things viral and they churn them out six seven ten a day and they're just they're just trying to make viral memes that influence the way people look at and the ease the ease of doing that look i i yeah you go back to the sort of earlier days of the of the cia and um and you think about trying to influence uh opinion or actions in a particular foreign government right and again going back to that idea that well you didn't have that many uh trying to influence opinion or actions in a particular foreign government, right?

And again, going back to that idea that, well, you didn't have that many opportunities, so what did you do? You try to influence the local media. Well, that was newspapers or radio, whatever. So you target the, you know, how do I place these articles, right? And the ability to do that now is, I mean, God, I wish I was still in the business now, right? Because you could change public opinion in a heartbeat compared to what it used to be like. But the Russians in particular are very, very good at this. And people would criticize, as an example, Voice of America. Remember the old Voice of America?

It still exists. What is it? Well, Voice of America, VOA, was, you know, it's out there. And in the early days, the idea was to get news into the former – or the Soviet Union at the time. So it was this broadcasting outlet that would provide news to parts of the world that were under communist influence. And was it directed in this – was it designed to criticize the regimes that were – the Soviets or whomever was running that? Yes, of course it was. Was it designed to promote democracy and the idea of free thinking?

Of course it was, right? So is that propaganda? Is that covert action? Well, yes, it is. Is it designed to promote the idea of democracy and freedom? Yes. So can we, you know, is that better than the Russians trying with their covert action to criticize and sow disbelief in the U.S. manufactured vaccines? Yeah, I think I can make a relative judgment and say one is better than the other. other. But again, going back to your thing about people saying, well, the U.S. does it too. There's, there's degrees of what is, you know, what is acceptable and what isn't, what is right and what is wrong. And, you know, it's a gray world out there. There's no black and white. But I guess what I'm, you know, so yeah, I am fascinated by that question about,

you know, does it frustrate you that people say America does it too. And I keep going back and people say, oh, you get rose-colored glasses and all that bullshit about – but I've seen enough shit over there to think that, yes, we do try – we try to do the right thing or we try to mirror our values. And what are our values? Well, if you think about it and we say, that's fine. I would rather have our values existing in a place like Iran, and the population would too, frankly, than the theocratic regime that exists there. So, I was disappearing down a rabbit hole. No, there's a weird narrative, a weird anti-American narrative that exists even inside America. And that's oftentimes when you have children, they rebel against their parents. And I don't think there's...

I think there's a similar thing. Like, you know, America's not perfect, but Iran executed an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling because he protested against the government, and that's a fact. You know, we were talking about China yesterday, what China has done in terms of there was that Jack Ma guy who disappeared for three months and came back, and he's been, you know, whatever.

He's towing the line. He's a little more compliant now, let's put it that way. I realize that he doesn't like prison. Yeah. I realize they can doesn't like prison. Yeah. I realize they can disappear him for a few months. When was the last time anybody talked about the Uyghurs? Yeah, that's a good point. That's fucking genocide.

We don't know what they're doing, right? We don't know. We know it's bad, right? But, you know, it's Xi's regime, right? Look, that guy has spent years now cementing his place. It's Xi's regime, right? Look, that guy has spent years now cementing his place, and, you know, much like Putin did, but with more subtlety. He's smarter than Putin.

Putin's a very smart politician, right? He's kept himself in power in a place where it's a constant, you know, kabuki dance to try to figure out how to, you know, avoid your opponents. Putin's proved himself to be a master at that. But Xi has cemented his place in there. He is the most important leader of China going generations back, right? And he has done it through suppression. He's done it through, you know, the buildup of the security service, the internal security services, the suppression of information, oppression of journalists. And so, yeah, do I think that...

So, again, every time I start off on this path, I get these responses that are just like, wow. Do you read the responses? Do you read that shit? Not really. That's part of the problem, is reading that shit. Yeah, I know. It's probably the Russians texting you. Yeah. Sending yeah send your messages yeah let's face it chinese are attacking

you yeah my my daughter worked and lived in china for you know for a while right she speaks chinese and she's a great kid but she would always be like dad come on i gotta work and live over here and i said well look you know you're you're you're you know she she gets it she got the joke right she understood you know how oppressive that place could be because she had spent time over there i get i get questions from companies that are doing business over there or are about to start doing business over there and their questions are always typically in the same bucket right which is you know how do we protect our information, right? We're going to build a manufacturing facility over there, or we're going to build a lab over there to whatever it might be, pharmaceuticals or technology.

And the question is always, how do we, you know, how do we go about securing our information? And you don't, is the answer, right? You build a facility over there, they're going to get it. They're going to get it through coercive means of saying, well, if you want business over here, this is what you have to sign up to. We're going to have access to your code or whatever it may be, or they're just going to steal it. So, again, going back to the same thing, we just have to be pragmatic. I mean, stop acting as if the rest of the world is trying to come together in some community of nations. Right. And I think actually I think I think Biden gets it. Right. I mean, I don't know how long he's going to be in charge of the administration.

But, you know, I'm worried about him. I mean, of course. Yeah, I think he's a I think he's a he understands that he's a pragmatic guy. He's a smart character, but he's got a lot of pressure on him politically from a variety of different angles and so i look at do you think he's lucid though do i think he's lucid yes right now that's a long pause yeah that's a long pause no no every fucking couple of days he gives a speech and it goes viral and in the you know the the quote under the viral video is like wtf yeah like what is he saying well look he's i mean i mean he you know i think he should be fishing i shouldn't have paused that long i think he is i

just think that um i think his his instincts are overridden by the priorities of the further left portion of the party. And so, you know, for me— Why do you think that is? Do they think that that is more effective? Do they think the further left, like that the people in the moderate left will go along with the further left because at least it's far away from the far right? Yeah, I just think that, you know, the extremes always make the most noise. Right. left will go along with the further left because at least it's far away from the far right yeah i just think that you know the the extremes always make the most noise right they always make whether it's the far right or the far left right and so i think that they're the the the vocal in a sense

minority right they're the ones who are always going to be beating the drums and screaming about shit um and i mean it's like this thing not to not to change subject entirely but it's like this thing, not to change the subject entirely, but it's like if you look at the far right. We had an incident in Idaho, in Boise, not that long ago, a few days ago, where some parents brought their kids to the statehouse. And they had a mask burning ceremony. I saw that. Yeah. You bring your kid. You know who sent me that video?

Alex Jones. Look, they're taking over. ceremony i saw that yeah come ask me you bring your kid send me that video alex jones look they're taking over oh my god figuring it out you know what america's coming back but you know what the secret to that is none of those people and it was a small gathering right it made news because basically because they brought their kids right and it's kind of wacky news you know what didn't make news? Bombing Syria. Yeah. Yeah, that didn't make news. No. Both those things are happening at the same time.

Yeah. And this fucking ridiculous exercise of burning these cotton masks became important. Right. But you know what? In that crowd, in that small crowd, you know how many people were from Boise? None. Right? So what you had was people coming from out of town.

They're all Russians. That's right. There are a lot of Chinese in there. Where are they from? They were mostly, they were coming from out of town. They're all Russians. That's right. There are a lot of Chinese in there. Where are they from? They were mostly, they were all from out of town. Mountain towns. And none of them from a town where they had a mask mandate. It wasn't like they were forced to wear masks.

They were just trying to make a point. But because it was like one of those moments where you think, really, did you have to come? Is this it? Yeah. Look at this. There's a whole bag of them. Yeah.

Did you have to? I mean, look at this. So these people. I don't like how that one's hanging over the edge. Throw it in there, girl. Get that in there. Yeah, watch yourself. Don't set that fleece on fire. Hey, come on over here. That's a nice girl. Get over here. at this. So these people. I don't like how that one's hanging over the edge. Throw it in there, girl. Get that in there. Yeah, watch yourself. Don't set that fleece on fire.

Hey, come over here. That's a nice girl. Get over here. Nice job. Be nice to her sister. Oh, clap, clap, clap. Come over here. Oh, yeah.

Get those in there. Come on. Get that. Oh, here you go. Put that mask in. That kid behind him wants to throw his in, but he's a little awkward. Look at the guy there with the double flannel. You fucking fashion victim.

That's one of those shirt jackets. That guy's a fashion criminal with his double flannel yeah he doesn't know who he is you know what those shirt jackets that he's wearing those were very popular in the 70s look at the girl clapping yeah i know look at this yeah burn that mask yeah get now get away from the fire what does the thing say what does the sign say uh not suffering what does that say don't self-suffocate that lady is in the westboro baptist church yeah so she's just there on vacation. So it's not like, again, not a big crowd, but it made the news because, and to your

point, because it feeds some narrative, right? It feeds some narrative. Look at the lady in the back with the red, the lumberjack. She had a fucking old school camera she was videoing. She doesn't even have a phone. Look at her. Oh, wait, you're right. That's like a-

She doesn't even have a fucking phone. Especially if you had one of those video cameras you'd held on your shoulder back in the old days she's got a windows phone and it can't update oh god but but but there are it's not like those people live in a city where there's a mask mandate right so they come into town they do this thing and it got and to your point it got how much coverage that son of a bitch guy i heard from all sorts of people saying what what the hell is happening in Idaho? That's just Facebook. Yeah. People get excited.

They want to see, oh, my God, it's going to go everywhere. Yeah. It's going to be everywhere. You know what? You go to Boise. You go to really most parts of Idaho. Everybody's wearing a mask. They're doing the right thing.

They don't have to be told by the federal government to do the right thing. They're just doing it because what the fuck. There's this thing going on where there's all these different arguments and there's all these different narratives and all these different people that are arguing their points and no one knows exactly what the motives are exactly who's doing what or why and you know you're worried about the far left if you're in the far right and you're worried about the the left you know everybody's everybody in the right is worried about the left everybody in the far right and you're worried about the the left you know everybody's everybody in the right is worried about the left everybody in the left is worried about the right and

everybody in the center is trying to figure out where the fuck the rational people are one of the things that i'm worried about and this is going to sound really weird but i'm worried that what this is really gonna what what all of this dissent and confusion is going to bring about is the rise of some sort of technological symbiosis where we can read each other's minds, where we can understand each other better, and it's going to make us less human than we are currently. I'm really worried about that.

I'm worried about these weird interfaces. Like Elon Musk is trying to do this Neuralink thing. And I think he's doing it because he wants to increase the bandwidth between human beings and information, which is a very – it's a noble concept. You're going to make people smarter, more access to information. One of the things he said to me, you're going to be able to talk without words. You know, I think – I don't know necessarily. I don't know that there's a correlation between access to more information and getting smarter.

But this is what I think. I think ultimately there's going to be some sort of technology that literally allows people to understand people's intent and to read their thoughts and ideas. And I think it's not that far away. It might be 50 years, whatever it is. But we're moving in this direction where we're going to be not that far away it might be 50 years whatever it is but we're moving

in this direction where we're going to be less human and that might be because of all the bullshit that's been created by social media and by these conversations by these algorithms that encourage people to be upset about things that they encourage outrage that we're going to move into some weird place where we're going to have to change who we are in order to recognize what are the motives behind these these different programs and campaigns that are forcing people into these situations where they hate each other yeah yeah i as somebody who's taken the polygraph, I don't know, four dozen times. I want to see if I don't lie. Yeah, well, what I was going to say was, I mean, we used to say with the polygraph that,

oh my God, can't you just put like a colander on our head and just read our thoughts? Because that would be a lot more pleasant and easier, right? Have you ever, have you beaten a polygraph? Have you ever lied? No. I've had a lot of inconclusive because the polygraph, the thing about the polygraph is A, it's all physiological

activity, right? It's blood pressure and sweat and you know. What is it? It's like heart rate, right? Heart rate and it's an imperfect system. Yeah, because it doesn't hold up in court. Right is it it's like heart rate right heart rate and it's and it's it's um it's an imperfect system yeah because it doesn't hold up in court right and it's also entirely dependent on the experience and the abilities of the examiner right and that varies because it's a human effort right so you'll get a good polygrapher you'll get one that's got less experience you'll

get one who's had a bad day and it's just, you know, whatever. Right. And I've seen these things fail miserably. I mean, obviously, in the intel community, in the agency, we've had people. Aldrich Ames, right, is a good example. Who's that? He was one of our traders, right? So Aldrich Ames went to work for the enemy. Which enemy?

The Russians. And sold out, caused a fair number of deaths. Hansen is another good example from the FBI. Ed Lee Howard. I mean, oh my God, Jim Nicholson, all these people that were able to beat the polygraph because essentially they're psychopaths, they don't see the difference between right and wrong. So the polygraph doesn't have any influence on them. If you're a Quaker, if you walk around and you feel bad about everything, right? Oh, God, I remember I took those cookies when I was a kid and I shouldn't have. I plugged that toaster in. I fucked up.

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't... The old toaster incident. I used that electricity. I'm a bad Amish. I'm a bad person. I shouldn't have done it. So if you carry that with you, then yeah, you're going to have a problem with a polygraph because you're going to be thinking about all these things. And back in the day, you take the polygraph and the examiner would be like, oh my God, we're going to take it again. It's inconclusive. Look, we're just worried about have you sold secrets to the enemy?

That's all. We don't worry about any of the other shit, right? about have you sold secrets to the enemy that's all we don't worry about any of the other shit right and yet if you get somebody who doesn't think that way like an aldrich ames or some of these people then yeah they'll pass a polygraph so in our minds we were always thinking we'll just come up with something better now they're getting there right they're getting they're getting to the ability to uh with uh scans brain scans fmri yeah so yeah right? Yeah, so you're getting closer, but it's not one of those things that you're going to subject your workforce to.

It's costly. It's very difficult to do. So you use it for a high-value target, for instance, like a KSM or one of these cats from the old terrorist days. But so I guess my point with that is we we're still relying on the old school technology of the polygraph for the most part. And we know it can be beaten. And we know it can be beaten. And it can be beaten if you feel no difference between right and wrong, right? If you're if you just walk through life, and you don't give a fuck, then the polygraph isn't much of an issue for you. So it's

but but luckily, most people aren't like that most people will get hooked up and they'll start reacting right and that's and that's a good thing but what about false memories because there it's been shown that particularly through hypnotic regression that you can introduce false memories to a person so if you say to a you know you can create a memory in a person you know like, whatever, about seeing Bigfoot or whatever it is, and that person can really believe it. It's been proven that they can do that, especially under hypnosis. So if you can hypnotize someone, get them to believe a false narrative, and then hook them up to a polygraph, and then describe that false narrative, and then hook them up to a polygraph and then describe that false narrative,

they'll show that they believe that thing, even though that thing is not really true. Yeah, and that's true. If you talk to somebody who said, okay, I was kidnapped by a UFO, by aliens, they're going to believe it, right? They're not going to react to it. So what do you do with a polygraph? Again, people are like, oh, we're having a lesson on the polygraph. But, I mean, what you do is you have other information that you've developed about that individual, right, that you use. So it's a tool in the kit bag that you use, at least in the Intel community, to determine credibility.

It's just one tool. It's just one tool. Yeah. You do not want to completely rely on the polygraph, right? But I have seen it work well, and then I've seen it fail miserably, right? So, you know, what I would like to see, I mean, I look at it from a counterintelligence perspective. If we can create something that can read people's minds, great. Because, you know, what that does is that allows us to identify the traitor within the group, the mole, a lot quicker.

And counterintelligence operations are always an enormous lift. People say, like, I can't believe you allowed whomever, you know, Hansen, to operate within the Bureau and have all those lives lost and betray us to the Russians for all those years. And my response is always, you know, I can't believe we caught him because it's a very heavy lift. It's a very difficult thing to do. But to your point, yeah, do I want us to develop that ability in general?

No. I think that's – It's inevitable. I think it's inevitable. I think it's coming whether we want it or not. I think if you look at the – if you go back in time and you go to Martin Luther and you go to the printing press and the ability to translate the Bible into a phonetic language and the changes that that had on society and you move that into the future and you go to the free press and then you go to the internet and you go to social media and you go to where we are today one of the things that's common the the thing that it all shares in common is that there's a course in this path that seems to be inevitable is that there's a a shrinking of the

distance between human beings and information and information is far more accessible than it's ever been before. And there is some resistance to that, right? Like there's some censorship in terms of like what you're allowed to search and what you're not allowed to search. We talked about earlier with Google and DuckDuckGo, and the things are curated, and we're all aware of the problems with big tech censoring certain voices on social media because they're concerned with the narrative

that's going to be because they're thinking about it in short term gains and losses but ultimately all technology is leading into there's a boundary between human beings and information it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller to the point where information is going to be instantaneously accessible, whether it is a decade from now or a month from now or 100 years from now, whatever it is. It is inevitable, in my opinion, that as technology continues to progress and innovation continues to be something that people value and that that is prized and that is rewarded we're going to move to a position where you're going to be able to read people's minds you're going to be able to understand people's intent and we're not going to trust people who aren't

willing to do that and it's going to help people in a lot of ways because lying doesn't just hurt the people that you lie to it hurts you you. Because you're living some bullshit life where you're trying to pretend that you're something that you're not. And I think ultimately people are going to get that. And there's going to be people that fall by the wayside, and there's going to be people that rise because of it, and it's going to help culture ultimately. But I think one of the big things it's going to do,

it's going to eliminate propaganda. And that's why I think it's going to be embraced. Because you can't have propaganda if people can actually understand what people's intentions are propaganda and that's why i think it's going to be embraced because you can't have propaganda if people can actually understand what people's intentions are in a clear but like you know how you have like if you if you enable location finding on your phone and you say hey i'm in russia and you're like no motherfucker you're in oklahoma it says it on your picture you piece of shit this is fake well who's to say ok say Oklahoma's a little bit of a foreign destination?

It depends on where you are and who you are. Yeah, it's true. How dare you? No, I like Oklahoma. It's foreign if you live in Connecticut. Yeah. Yeah. Who wants to be there anymore? Connecticut's a rough spot right now. Didn't they just decide to open

wide up? I do not know. I think they did too. Didn't they, Jamie? I think up? I do not know. I think they did too. Didn't they, Jamie? I think Connecticut opened wide up too, which is odd. We left Connecticut to go to Idaho. Connecticut is a highway. It's barely a... Any city there is barely a city

and it's barely a state. It's a highway between Boston and New York. See, I will disagree on the... It's going to be a benefit overall. I on the, it's going to be a benefit overall. I don't think it's going to be a benefit. I think, I think we, it's going to happen.

I don't disagree with that idea that it's just going to happen. But I think the quicker and the more access that we have to information has not done us any favors to date. Hasn't it, though? No.

People are way more educated and informed than people were 1,000 years from now. Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah. I think it's – I'm very conflicted on this. Is the potential there for good? Yes.

But if you look at the reality of it all, look how divisive we are now, right? Look how – But maybe isn't that because we don't have access to all the information, so we're concerned and we're worried? Yeah. I mean, maybe part of it is how much credit you give to individual humans, but

I just think that we haven't done ourselves any favors yet. Maybe we learn, and maybe, yes, maybe there's one day when it's all instantaneous and so therefore everybody's showing their cards all at the same time and you know there's no there's no issues but i just have a feeling that that so far um you know we're so far i don't think the internet has really um it's going to sound like I'm some sort of Luddite,

but in terms of our children, in terms of general society and the way that we deal with each other, I don't know that it's done us more good than harm so far. I just have this feeling that the way that we are currently, right, and people, because people – the human condition is still going to be that they're going to go to wherever they believe, right? So the fact that I can – I know your intentions doesn't mean it's going to make me altruistic and understanding, right? That's not human condition. It's just going to make me harden my opinion or figure out some way to get around the aspect of what your intentions are. But maybe I'm more cynical than you are. Let me push back on that.

Isn't that a lot of that like fear and a lot of that is distrust of other people? There's a lot of the way we interact with each other. That's a lot of it is based on fear and distrust. Yeah, but I don't think the additional access to information and instantaneous understanding of all – I don't think that's going to make us – somehow it's going to make the human condition better. I don't think it's going to make us more, again, more open to new ideas or others' ideas or opinions. I just have a feeling we're going to figure a workaround and it may harden our positions and That but maybe there's a workaround to the workaround like let's go back to the people in 1950s It was a fake the people the 1950s that were terrified about rock and roll

All right, they were terrified Elvis Presley shaking his hips. You can't show it on television. There was a real argument It was a real argument that that guy he's Swinging his cock on TV and these girls are screaming not literally The porn what it led to like it's like dirty porn though No, there's porn before I mean, but like more more and more more Elvis more Elvis did yeah I was directly responsible for a lot of porn There's gonna be software and hardware issues to kind of piggyback off what he's saying that would be very hard knowing what we have seen over the past 20 30 years hard to keep that out of there like people would be able to mask their

feeling from being seen by downloading the whole thing for now but you know that's that's also again like location services and like a lot of other things. Like there's these little hurdles that come up that keep people from truly understanding the nature of an actual thing that you're experiencing. Look, from my perspective, from an operational perspective, right, and from my business perspective, what do we do? We, you know, we're involved in a lot of investigations, a lot of fraud concerns, a lot of asset tracing, all these things that my folks do. Hey, great. I'd love to be able to know immediately what somebody's intentions are. That makes the job so much easier, you know, but I guess what I'm saying is, I think it doesn't change the base nature of human characteristics, you know, and so I don't think it's going to make us suddenly come together as a community and understand, you know, and get together. I think the, what's happened is the ability to access more information has just driven us apart and created these silos where we all just sit and listen to whatever affirms our opinion and i don't think that you

know a neural link or anything else is going to suddenly make us better people and i think it's going to not be i i don't know i and what the fuck do i know i'm not a neuroscientist so i don't know i'm not a psychiatrist i don't know what the fuck do i know but my yeah what the fuck do i know but my my experiences so far have told me that oftentimes people's intentions aren't particularly good and that we have to be pragmatic and sometimes being cynical is not a bad thing. No. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't think it's a bad thing either.

But I think that what we're dealing with is there's a lot of confusion, and there's a lot of distrust, and there's a lot of conflict. There's a lot of these things going on, and a lot of it is based on the unknown. A lot of it is like we don't know what the Russians are doing. We don't know what the far left is doing. We don't know what the far right is doing. We don't know what the Russians are doing, we don't know what the far left is doing, we don't know what the far right is doing, we don't know what the Chinese are doing, and there's a problem with our own biology. It takes a long time for human beings to evolve biologically. Like, there's not much difference between our DNA and the DNA of people that lived 10,000 years ago, but there's a massive

difference in the world that we exist in. You're saying we're Neanderthals? Because I've heard recently that that's bad. Neanderthal thinking is bad. Yeah. I think that as we move forward, technology is increasing at a pace that biology can't possibly keep up with. possibly keep up with. So we are left with these tribal biological instincts that were developed that evolved when people were in tribes worried about other tribes coming over and attacking us.

We were worried about the unknown. We were worried about animals. We were worried about attacks. We were worried about, you know, the sky turning into a monster that we didn't understand. We were worried about the sky turning into a monster that we didn't understand. And now we know so much more, but we still have the same human reward systems. We still have the same DNA and biology that was essentially programmed to keep us alive during these ignorant situations. We didn't really know, but now we know a lot. But now we know so much, we have this ability to communicate that's unprecedented. And it's evolving and changing.

The only way I see that we can keep up with it is if we do something to interface with the technology in a way that's unprecedented, in a way that's different than just looking at a screen or looking at a phone because you're still using the same biology and you're interfacing with new information when you're using a phone and that's also created a lot of confusion you know that's that's part of the reasons why people isolate and insulate and get into these fucking these little bubbles of information and thought and you know they they insulate themselves from opposing ideas and it gives them comfort and it makes them tribal it makes them more tribal and i think it's not a coincidence that the more technology increases and the more access to information increases

the more likely people are to get into these weird fucking groups where they they have echo chambers i think the one of the only ways it's going to move us out of that is some sort of technology that alleviates a lot of our concerns by giving us information about intent, give us information about what people's real thoughts are and real intentions are, and let people know that most of us want the same thing. Most of us really, truly want the same thing. And a lot of the conflict that has been exploited, whether it's by social media algorithms or it's by foreign countries or bad entities, they've done so by preying upon these biological

limitations. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I don't want to live in a world where I can read people's intents, right? I mean, because part of it is sort of like, you take it down to the base level in terms of just relationships, right? I think part of the excitement of life is not knowing, in a way, right? That sounds maybe stupid. Sounds like a married guy.

Yeah, it sounds like a married guy. If you're single, what do you say, right? That sounds maybe stupid. Sounds like a married guy. Yeah, it sounds like a married guy. If you're single, would you say, Jim? I was trying to think about what age do you do this? If you do it to a baby, because then you could hear what your baby's thinking,

but also, you're going to have to replace that multiple times as they grow older or their brain might not develop correctly because there's already an interference. An interference? How so? Because there's wires in the baby's brain that's

not biological oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the wires thing is like i think the wires thing is like a wired phone you know it's like you know like right right now we don't have to have a wire i don't have a phone in my house like a wired phone nobody's got a landline no yeah yeah but we used to you know i think this wire thing is like a shitty technology okay we still have to have a let's just get the wires essentially then, you still have to have a... Let's just get... The wire's a sensor, then. It's still close to your brain, and you have to cut the hole in the head and... For now.

But remember when we were talking with Jamie Metzl yesterday about CRISPR? What if CRISPR gets to the point where, you know, there's some new technology that we literally develop the human mind to the point where it can access Wi-Fi, where it can access some new software or some new hardware that allows people to communicate with each other without any – no filter, no filter in between us, whether it's language.

I will say this. It sounds awful. What you're describing, I'm a simpleton. I admit it. You sound like a guy in the 1950s who was a pastor who was looking at Elvis Presley shaking his hips. No, it's not. This is the end of civilization. I loved Elvis.

But what I'm saying is I think, look, would I want to grow up as a kid today compared to when I grew up, which was we didn't have access to that news. We had like three channels for news, right? Everybody had a shared experience in a sense, right? Now, am I saying – I'm not somebody who looks back at the past and goes, oh, my God, it was so wonderful. There were problems then too. Of course there was.

And so – but was there – as an example, was there a benefit to having much of the country sitting down for the – whatever, the 5 o'clock news or the 11 o'clock news, and everybody had a shared experience. They were getting the same news, right? And they were, now they would process it differently based on their own personal life experience, right, and where they were sitting in life. But there was a shared moment in time, right? This is a small example.

But I look at that and i go you know was there some benefit to that and i think there was because now you don't have that and that that creates in part what we've got today with this divisiveness that exists and everybody's sitting in their trenches it's like world war one right everybody's throwing grenades nobody wants to come out into no man's land and and then i go back to the other part of it, which is a little more touchy-feely, admittedly, which is I don't want to know. There's an element of life that, you know, it's sort of the unknown, right? I don't want to walk around knowing exactly what your intention is or what Jamie's intention is. It's not a concern of mine, right?

Life can be pretty simple if you think about it, right? If you think, what am I interested in? I'm interested in trying to be a good person, raising my family so that the kids are good people and productive people. And the idea of getting to some point in life where we don't have to talk to communicate, right? I mean, no, I'm not i'm not i'm not a buyer on that one this is where we're headed we're gonna be these little aliens i know i remember that start remember the star trek i think it was a two-part episode where they all just kind of

communicate without talking i think that's fucked up i like again i don't want to you know the problem with the scenario that you're painting in these rosy, rose-colored glasses is that there was a small group of people that curated that information that was portrayed on the 5 o'clock news. Sure. That's the problem. It's like then you relied on government entities and propaganda and you could have people with unscrupulous ideas and that's

what led to but are you saying that now but are you saying that now it's better in terms of politics and the governments and our reliance on government and the way that we it's better in terms of whether or not we know the government's full of shit because we're way more way more aware yeah way more aware i won't disagree with that I won't disagree with that. I won't disagree with that. But you know what? Part of that is an investigative responsibility, right? Part of that is the ability of individuals to question what's happening. That never changes, right? That's been the same now as it was during the penny press. No, they have access to Google and DuckDuckGo and search engines.

Are you an investor in DuckDuckGo? No, I'm not. Oh, okay. Just checking. Nothing to do with it, but I like it. I'm a believer in unbiased sources. I think there's only a few of them out there. There's things that don't...

It's one of the reasons why I like Apple over Android. They don't share your information the same. And I think there's real value in that because human beings have been using these things whether it's google or facebook and we always thought that that was the product that we were using these things and that these things facebook was the product google was the product and then somewhere along the line we realized no we're the product our data is the product and we're selling but by using these things for free by using whatever it is their their message services and posting on these things we think we're we're getting something for free but we're not because we're giving up our

data we're giving up uh all of our metadata and all of our information, and through these algorithms, they've been able to amass insane amounts of wealth just by using our information. Well, and it's something that, yeah, I always laugh when people talk about the government collecting information on you. They say, government's not the problem. The U.S. government's not the issue. Nothing in comparison to social media and corporations. It can't organize panic in a doomed submarine. So, I mean, it's the corporations. And these new corporations that 25 years ago didn't even exist.

There was no such thing as Facebook and Google. They didn't have an influence on world ideas. They didn't have an influence on the way people express narratives. There was no influence by tech companies other than selling you cool products. 25 years ago, all they did is sell you things that you thought would enhance your life. I guess what I'm saying is I don't disagree in the sense of, again, going back to the operational perspective, there's a lot of advantage, right, from somebody who is worried about security and national security concerns. Hey, there's a lot of advantage to getting to that point.

I just don't think, you know, it's going to improve the human condition necessarily. I don't think there's going to be the upside that necessarily comes from, you know, instantaneous immediate access to understanding people's plans and intentions and information. I don't think it's going to make us less tribal. This was the same argument they had about the printing press. It really is. No, I just got caught short there. I can't spot the lie in what you just said. follow like stephen pinker's work and you follow like the the analysis of violence and crime as it relates to the progress of civilization and humanity there's a there's a path and this is

not to discount all the situations where people have been the victim of violence and the victim of crime but there's less instances of it statistically if you had an overlook if you were looking at the earth from above and you looked at a trend in terms of like the way civilization is heading as technology progresses as access to food and resources and information progress you have less instances of violence less instances of crime and less instances of all the undesirable things whether it's sexual assault or racism all the things they occur less over time and i think that as technology increases this will be a trend that that continues to go in that direction this is just me guessing yeah based on

the work of other people far smarter than me that have gone over this sort of pattern and looked at it in terms of like, where are we headed? We're not headed in a bad place. People can concentrate on all the bad things that still do exist, whether it's sexual harassment in the workplace, or whether it's violence, or whatever the thing you want to concentrate on. There's 8 billion people on this planet you can find massive amounts of data that can support your idea that this is still a problem and it's always going to be still a problem until there's no problems until we reach utopia and i don't know if we're ever going to reach utopia we're not going to it's it's that's where i think we turn into these

unless we turn into the those guys little gen turn into those guys. These little genital-less, mouth-less little mind readers. By the way, we're getting ready to film a second season of Black Files Declassified. Do you have any- Look at that. It took a while. UFO stuff? We do. We're going to have a couple of really good episodes on that.

I've been very underwhelmed lately by people who were involved in the UFO world, unfortunately. I think this is going to be good. We're going to have good. We're visiting. We're going to have a couple of good episodes on this. Where are you visiting? I'm prescribed from saying the exact show map right now, but I've seen the... You're prescribed?

Well, I've seen the topics. I'm not allowed to talk about it. I am allowed to say that the first season of Black Files Declassified is available on Discovery+. But you're not allowed to talk about it. I am allowed to say that the first season of Black Files Declassified is available on Discovery Plus. But you're not allowed to talk about what happens? About what we're going to film in the next season? No. Which is fine.

But I just think, A, I don't think we're heading towards utopia. I don't think that's ever going to happen. Maybe I'm too cynical about the human condition and the way that we always find a way to fuck things up. Let me ask you this, though. In your home, I bet it's pretty utopian.

In terms of, like, if you had to think about the way people lived as cavemen versus the way you live today. Oh, sure. In your home. In your home with your family. Yeah, the invention of the wheel. Pretty utopian.

And the invention of the toaster. I mean, it's all good stuff. Electricity, warmth, hot showers. Yes, yes. Pretty goddamn good. It is. It's very, very good. Do you think it's going to continue along those same lines?

Yeah, but that's different than me sitting here and reading your intent immediately. That's separate from that, right? Now, again, if I'm concerned about finding a trader in my Intel organization, I like the idea very, very much. But if I'm just some dude, right, who's interacting with people on a daily basis, do I find that less appealing? Yeah, I do. And I don't have have a there's not necessarily logic to what i'm saying i know that listen you have a handicap you're not even american that's part of the problem you barely you got over here a couple weeks ago like some fucking european

australian i know you probably liked uh you like the european idea. I don't know. I didn't even pay attention to that. I'm too busy. Yeah, I know. Some people didn't like it. Hey, you mentioned, by the way, I just followed it away and I just popped up in my data bank again, Syria. You mentioned Syria? Yeah.

It's a very good point. A, there's very little attention paid to it. People were paying attention to Ted Cruz trying to go to Cancun. They didn't give a fuck about Syria. At what point didn't his chief of staff or somebody who was booking his tickets didn't say, Ted, probably the optic isn't looking good. So maybe you shouldn't do it. Why can't he wear a better mask?

Did he wear a mask at all? Yeah. But I mean, if you're going to wear a mask, get someone but i mean like if you're gonna wear a mask like get someone to fucking dye your hair blue or something yeah you can't hide that ted cruz look he's very discernible shave your head shave wear an eye patch yeah come on come up with something it's just like yeah you're gonna go to cancun in the middle of a deep freeze good god also be aware that you can't say, I was going to head right back when people can fucking research

your ticket and find out you actually weren't coming back until Saturday. It was weird. It was strange. It was a bizarrely bumbled job on his part and his staff's part, right? Because most of these people are kind of controlled by their staff. How about his wife's got a bunch of friends that are fucking rats?

How about that? They sold her down the river. Yeah. Oh, no, absolutely. Well, you know. Gave up all her text messages talking about how it's freezing. We're going to have. But listen, if you have the means and you are stuck in a place where there's no power

and the power is not coming back on and you can just fly to Cancun, I get the optics for Ted, but his family should absolutely be allowed to do that if they have the money. It's not like you shouldn't have to stay and suffer because everybody else has to stay and suffer. No, if you're going into public service, though, you should. You should tell your family. No, his family should, too.

Yes. Because there's no dividing line. People don't perceive the difference between Ted's wife and kids went to Cancun. They're not going to then say, but Ted stayed here, so that's good. The headline's going to be, ah, he sent his family to Cancun. So whether he went or not, it didn't matter. So that's why I say it was a stupid, stupid political move on his part, and a very amateur move.

If he went without him, do you think it would be any—I don't think anyone would even pay attention. No. If he stayed home in a fucking tent with a mug lux on, a beaver hat. I mean, you might as well be in a tent if your fucking house has no heat. Yeah, I know. Hey, look, in Connecticut, where we used to live, apparently when you move to Connecticut, you sign some agreement. I don't remember signing it. That said every winter, the power is going to go out at least four or five times during the winter and for days at a time.

I mean, not just a couple of days. The first winter we were in Connecticut, because all the utilities are above ground, right? So, you know, they get a lot of storms. Trees come down. So the next thing you know, the entire town and a bunch of other towns are without power. It is a common occurrence there. But the difference is, as opposed to here in Texas, you're used to it. You're prepared for it. So what happens is you get generators and you get food and you understand it's going to happen, right? You have a fireplace. It's going to be okay, even if the power is out for six or seven or eight days, which it is.

It's not an uncommon occurrence. So, I mean, I remember we didn't have a generator the first winter, right? And I remember looking outside. The power was out for a few days. Other people got their lights on, right? And our neighbors were great, and they'd say, come on over. Just stay at our house for a few days until, you know, and that's what we would do. Just stay at our house for a few days until, you know, and that's what we would do.

And then eventually, you know, my wife, the finest person I know, you know, she said, she knows I'm not that handy, but she said, you're going to go get a generator for the family, right? Maybe take care of the family. So I went to a Home Depot to buy a... You just talked like a foreigner. Home Depot. What? What the fuck is a depo? What is it?

It's a depo. Jamie, talk to him. I heard it. I was going to let it slide. It's depo. Home foreigner. Home Depot. What the fuck is a depo? What is it? It's a depo. Jamie, talk to him. I heard it. I was going to let it slide. It's depo. Home Depot. Depot. You fucking foreigner.

Jesus Christ. You go to home. Don't they teach you in the CIA? You go to Home Depot. Yeah. Talk like a goddamn American. All right. So I went to...

I'm an American. I was born here, bro. There I was in my beaver hat, and I went to Home Depot with my buckskin jacket. My beaver hat. But I went there, and I remember walking in, and I thought, I've got to buy a generator. They're already bought. Well, there was like one left, right? Yeah.

And the manager, because I approached some guy and i said look i'm looking to buy a a generator and the guy says well uh you know yeah i'll show you where they are but i don't think we have any left and there was a fight going on over the last generator like like we were about to face the zombie apocalypse right there was a battle going on in this Home Depot where they were going to come to, as we used to say, fisticuffs. And so I remember standing there looking at it and thinking, you've got to be shitting me. And then I slipped the manager some money and he took me out back and gave me the last

generator. Really? How much did you have to give him? not that much compared to the cost of the generator point being though is then i had the generator and then i realized uh after running it for a while that it needs oil i didn't know that until it burned out oh no yeah because i'm not that handy but uh but i guess the point being is we were used to it right we didn't have a problem with it and then you look at what happens in Texas, and I had friends on the East Coast that were saying,

I want a bunch of pussies, right? They're all complaining because they don't. And I said, look, it's Texas. When was the last time they had a deep freeze like this, right? It's all what you're used to and what you're prepared to get ready for. It is. So I don't know where I was going with that story. Most people around here didn't know how to drive in it.

Really? Of course, yeah, that's a good point. They didn't have the tires for it, they didn't have four-wheel drive, or if they did have four-wheel drive, there's a lot of guys with trucks that were, they look at, they have these pickup trucks, but they're two-wheel drive trucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we get that too. Trucks are the worst. They have no fucking weight in the back. You have to have sandbags back there. You gotta put sand back there. Put at least 100 and 150 pounds of sand in the back, and then you're good. But we got people that move up to Idaho, particularly from California, that get that first winter. And we don't plow the roads, right? Right. The general feeling is if you don't know how to drive in the snow, then stay home.

So nobody's plowing the roads. So we still get people out there that don't know how to drive in the snow, then stay home. So nobody's plowing the roads. So we still get people out there that don't know how to drive. They don't plow the roads? No. In Idaho? If it's a lot in Boise, then they'll get out there and they'll give it an effort. Do you have a serious vehicle up there? Yeah, we've got nothing but I got a truck.

What do you drive? It's a GMC. Some fucking foreign piece of shit? Oh, it's a GMC. Some landowner? Denali. And we got a Suburban. I got a truck what do you drive uh it's a it's a gmc some foreign piece of shit oh it's gmc denali and we got a suburban i got a wagoneer i got a 91 wagoneer i told you before yeah yeah with the wood panels yeah exactly i know i look pretty fucking good in my beaver hat driving that wagoneer uh and then i i just bought a uh a 1965 mgb, really? From a guy in the UK, from a Vicar. From the little convertible ones? A Vicar, yeah.

It's a beautiful car. Oh, man. 1965. Don't they have wooden frames or something? No, no. That's an old-ass car, man. That's an old car. No, a 65, it's a brilliant piece of machinery.

And this one's been, ah, yeah. Look at that. That's a sweet little vehicle right there. Look at the wire wheels. Nice. You Google 1965 MGB. Yes, yeah, you go. And it's, so I'm going to pick it up in Liverpool.

Oh, look at that black one. We're going to drive it around. You're literally going to go to England to get it? Yeah, mine is that middle. Actually, no, bring it back. Actually, Jamie, I think you got my car the green one the green one yeah really uh and oh look at that that's beautiful so i'm gonna take uh i'm gonna take him over to uh england we're gonna drive it around for a while and then i'm gonna ship it back and now now this is not a car

you drive in the winter in idaho but in the summertime it's gonna be great and sluggo my middle boy has already claimed it. He said, when you guys die, he talks like that all the time, when you guys die, do I get the house? What the hell? You better have AAA for that fucking car. Yeah, yeah. That's a British car, right? Yeah, it is. They're not known for their reliability.

What is it about the Brits where they make shitbag cars? They're your people. They make great, they make very solid cars. We made the Spitfire from World War II, you people. They make great. They make very solid cars. We made the Spitfire from World War II, you know. They make great cars, but they don't have the best reliability ratings. Are you thinking about Italian cars? No. You're thinking about Fiat. Listen,

I'm Italian. I'll tell you right now. I don't buy my people's cars. I don't trust anybody like me to make a fucking car. But the Land Rover, they make a fucking hell of a car, but they break all the time. I looked at the new Defender.

Have you seen the new Defender? Get yourself an old Defender. That's what lasts forever. That's what lasts forever. Get the fuck out of here. Those things break constantly. Oh! It's the difference between buying an old Land Cruiser,

Toyota Land Cruiser, and a new Land Cruiser. The old ones, they will stay on the road forever. As long as you take care of you got to take care of you're a good guy but you're talking out of your ass no i'm not right now you just fucked up and you stepped into my realm that's gonna be those new land cruisers are virtually bulletproof those fucking things last forever the old land cruisers anything on

those things you don't have to they don't break the old land cruisers also virtually bulletproof don't you want a car you could fix there's an old saying that they used to say when you want in australia in particular if you want to go into the bush you bring a range rover if you want to get out of the bush you bring a land cruiser yeah yeah because those range rovers suck they're beautiful they look cool they like makes it look like you're an artist like you got like one of them fucking moleskin notebooks and you're writing deep thoughts about your soul oh you're gonna solve you're gonna solve a murder mystery in a village somewhere yeah yeah yeah that's like a that's a 100 series right isn't that yeah i have an 80 series but that's right there look at that look at that that yeah that one right there that's

sweet that one's gonna stay on the road forever. Nice. Yeah. What year is that? That's a 70 series, right? What is that? Yep. Nice. See, I know my shit. I have an 80 series. I have an 80 series. Land Cruiser. Yeah, 1995.

It was souped up by Icon, so it's got a supercharged Corvette engine in it. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah, I was driving it around while everybody was freaking out about the snow. I was like, ha ha. I got locking differentials. You can find mine, Jamieials you can find mine jamie find mine in there because it's fucking souped up and it's uh it's lifted so it can go over

everything and it's got like a fuck that's it on the far left that's it right there yeah that's my car that's it yeah that fucking thing that fucking thing i loved driving that thing around you still have it yes i drove it around during, that's my buddy, Jonathan Ward. He moved out here too. I don't think he wants anybody to know. Too late. I'm sure.

It's just between you and me, nobody else knows. But that fucking thing, man, I, I, you drive that anywhere. It's awesome.

I mean, it was so sturdy and sure footed and it's got solid axles and, you know, front and rear. Look at that. Supercharged Corvette engine. In some of our places overseas, that's, I mean, Land Cruiser was all we had. They're the best. We'd solid axles and, you know, front and rear. Look at that. Supercharged Corvette engine. In some of our places overseas, I mean, Land Cruiser was all we had. They're the best.

We'd show up somewhere and, you know, that was sort of the fleet of vehicles that we had available to us to get around. That's why. And, yeah, no, they're great vehicles. But don't be fucking with the Defender. That's a great vehicle. The Defender is a—go Google 2021 Range Rover Defender V8. They have a new one that has 500 plus horsepower. 90 series.

90 series is the one. It's a fucking beautiful car, but they have literally the worst reliability ratings that are out there. That's a fact. Look at that. Come on. That's a beautiful goddamn car.

No, it is. That truck goes zero to 60 in a little over four seconds. 518 horsepower. You can go over there and pick up a Land Rover and go through their testing facility. Yeah, and then it'll break down before you even get home. You won't even be able to get it back to the fucking factory. Well, anyway, that fucking 65 MGB is going to be sweet. And yes, you're right.

But you know what I can do with it? I can also work on it. Bring your AAA car. I can jack that thing up and work on it because I don't need a computer system to figure out what's wrong with it. That's true. That's true. You know it.

It's broken and there it goes. Replace the engine. Well, I know what's going on. Yeah. Anyway. They're beautiful cars. And there's some real value to the simplicity of those old cars. Like you could work on the carburetor.

You could figure out, oh, I'll replace the spark plugs. You could do things to them. Yeah. I had a 67 Triumph one time. Oh. That's where it got stolen. See, you really are a Brit. You like those old shit boxes.

I do like them. Yeah. All right. I give up. You're right. I like them too, man. I think they're cool look at that man i know look at that god that's like driving a go-kart you're so low to the ground so little too look at the little tiny ass tires yeah no god that's awesome fun to drive man you know what i really love that uh jaguar e type the long front nose like a like a fucking Barracuda. I will admit, those are always in need of repair.

Constant. I think they've got the new ones dialed in, though. The new Jaguar. It's made by Ford. Yeah. But for whatever reason, they can't figure out the new Range Rovers. They still break down. There's a YouTube channel that I follow that reviews trucks, and they—

God, I can't remember the name of the channel. These guys, I believe they're from—I don't even know where the fuck they're from. But they bought the base model Range Rover Defender, and they got the four-cylinder one, the cheapest one you can get with the metal wheels. And it broke down almost immediately after having it and it took like more than a month for them to get it repaired and this is a brand new truck

these guys yeah the fast lane yeah so their fucking Defender broke down like right away the guy's laughing his ass off this guy he's a really good reviewer on YouTube he's got an awesome channel it's really really informative and well thought out but what's it called it's called the fast lane fast lane the fast lane and most most of it is so our third brand new

land rover defender but will it be our last because they kept breaking down these fucking things they they had to fly someone in from eng to fix it. Well, that's inexpensive. Yeah, because they just couldn't. And also, when you've got a channel that has millions of views on their reviews, and you sell them a fucking shitty lemon, and it keeps breaking down, you've made a mistake. It's not good, yeah. They have the worst reliability ratings, and it's not good yeah they have the worst reliability ratings and it's unfortunate

because the other than that like i don't know what corners are cutting where their stuff sucks because the the engineering and everything the design is amazing i tell you what we've been happy 7 000 miles my wife drives a uh my wife drives a suburban right now it's it's like what is it a 2019 i think and uh and we needed something we could throw all the sports gear in for the kids, right? And like haul all of them and the dogs and everything around. And it's been amazingly reliable. I'll say that much. And I never

had a Suburban before, but it's been probably the best vehicle we've owned in terms of just reliability, right? Yeah, those new GM cars are far better than the old ones. Like a perfect example is the new GM Corvette. That new Chevy Corvette is fucking incredible. That's an incredible car.

It's the best value sports car you can get. It's a mid-engine American supercar, and it's super reliable and really well engineered. I mean, they went above and beyond for a long time. They worked on that goddamn thing, and they made a masterpiece. That new Corvette, look at that thing. That is a masterpiece. It's an amazing car.

They went through a dark period. Look at that thing, man. It's fucking gorgeous, too. It looks like a Ferrari. Well, that's what I was going to say. There was a period of time where, yeah. But again, American design cars went through a period. Look at that thing, though.

Come on. Remember when every- That's beautiful. We had a 69 Camaro for a while. But there was a period where Camaros, Firebirds, Trans Ams all looked alike. Oh, yeah. When they got into the 70s and the 80s, they were dog shit. Yeah.

But that's a magical vehicle. They really came out of... And the interior was always the big thing about... Click on one of the photos of the interior, Jamie, because that was always the big criticism. That interior is amazing. It's beautiful. And the new one, the 2022, was supposed to be even better looking than that. What's the price on that?

It's not bad. I think the base model is $60,000. Seriously? Yes. It's like price on that? It's not bad. I think the base model is $60,000. Seriously? Yes. It's like an SUV. For a car that looks that good and is that fast, it's ridiculously fast. And because it's mid-engine, all the weight is above

the rear wheels. It's really well balanced. It handles fantastic. They have rave reviews all throughout you know the internet and all these these uh different websites they nailed it yeah no i what's your what's your favorite car you've had i have a 1965 corvette it's probably my favorite yeah yeah i'd give them all up except for that one yeah if i had to give them all up i'd keep that i think i've seen that you had that parked one time at your yes place at the comedy store too yeah that fucking thing is that thing is it's just yeah it's just the perfect

little car it's like it's it's fun but if i had to choose one car to drive if you said you can only drive one car it would be my tesla because that's really oh yeah yeah it's um it makes other cars seem like they're foolish, like they're dumb. Have you ever driven one? No. You should drive one. I've never actually been inclined to even think about Tesla. They're so fast.

They're so fast, you can't believe it. You can't believe it. It goes 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds. That's two seconds faster than that new Corvette. That's one second faster. New Corvette's under four seconds. But it's preposterous how fast it is. Yeah, that's one area I can't even speak about

because I have not been in a Tesla. They'll fuck with your head. They'll fuck with your head because they do things in a way that you go, why don't other cars don't you feel the same way I was going to say mine's all back

go show them real quick come back mine's all back too mine's back there too there's an EV Corvette coming out it says yeah what it's going to be

is a hybrid they're going to have electrical motors in the front and I think they're going to still have the mid engine but it's going to be like the Acura NSX

which is like a hybrid they have electrical motors this is not it though I'm trying to figure out the difference. 1,000 horsepower Corvette Zora is in the works. Oh, Jesus. Everyone's going to die. It says a stop order on future car development.

Well, my boy John Hennessy already takes a regular Corvette, and I think he jacks it up to 1,000 horsepower. Go to Hennessy's Corvette. I have a Hennessy Raptor. Oh. Oh, yeah. That's my Texas truck. I had to get one when I moved here just to show that I'm fucking committed to being a Texan.

You got to have a pickup truck. It's my first pickup truck I've ever owned in my life. Really? Yeah. I will say, you know, probably if I look at it. This is the Hennessey c8 Corvette he's got a thousand horsepower Corvette watch how fast the thing passes come the fuck on that to me that's an eagle strangling a terrorist yeah that's

America Hennessey's awesome he does some come and take it he's got the cannon on it look at the first 200 mile rodeo that's crazy yeah generation 5 Z01

203.9 miles per hour yeah he makes some wild shit see I'm you know I got I got weird taste I mean I

the pickup that I've got now I really like I'm a big fan and I think a pickup truck is always a great option but ever since I was a kid and I've got now I really like. I'm a big fan. I think a pickup truck is always a great option. But ever since I was a kid and I've never owned one, I've looked at a lot of them. I've come close to buying them. But this is going to sound weird. But the car that I've always wanted to buy is a 56 Bel Air.

Oh, it's a beautiful car. It's a beautiful car. It's a beautiful car. There's something about sort of the excess of that period of time, right? Yeah. sort of the excess of that period of time right now where it was just like it was all about like melding the car design with with with airplanes and just it just that whole idea oh yeah but I've never found one that I thought yeah I'm gonna buy this I saw 55 the other day that was souped up that was at this auto

shop that I get my repairs done out in Austin, and it was amazing. It's just such a, just the boxiness, but the chrome bumpers and the shape. It's a gorgeous car. It's fantastic. It's a different world, right? Yeah. It's, you know, but it's. Inefficient. Yeah.

Nonsense. Yeah, it is nonsense. But they're so beautiful. Yeah. I don't know why, but I go to car shows, and I'm always looking around. Look at that. Yeah. Fuck, look at that.

I know. See? Look at that. Tell me that's not beautiful. Is that a 56, Jamie? God, that's so pretty. That is so pretty. Everything about it.

Just sort of the... It's just so fucking excess, but it's just gorgeous. And the color schemes they had back then, just crazy. You know who made a really killer one? Who crazy. You know who made a really killer one? Who the fuck was it that made a really killer one? Somebody made one for rides. It was Google 55 Corvette. No, 55, excuse me, 55 Bel Air for rides, for the TV show Rides.

They did it. I'm trying to remember who the fuck designed it. But there's a difference right between a car that you have like for transportation and a car that's really just pure enjoyment and fun. And that's what that is at this point. Yeah. No, you've got to have something that you know is always going to be reliable, is not going to break down, is always going to be there.

Yeah. But then the fun of cars is, I think, is in part, is just sort of the quirks that each one brings, you know? And I keep going back to the same thing. It's just the ability to work on a car as opposed to i gotta take it in i gotta have the diagnostics figured out and i get yeah you know i don't know it's just but it's yeah it's i always said if i had enough money that's kind of where the money would go is that a rides car wow that's pretty good look at that thing. My God. Fucking paint job on that. Amazing.

Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's a statement, right? It's not just a car. It's like a love letter to American automotive engineering from the 1950s. There's just something about it. Yeah, yeah. No, I'd say, look, that's optimism, right? In that time, that shows you what sort of the mindset was, right? We're launching off to the unknown, right? We're going to the moon.

Whatever it is, there's this concept that says it's not just about utility, right? There's something more there. There's a belief in what we're moving towards. But, boy, that was deep. I remember who had it now. Yeah, that was deep. It was deep. Christopher Titus, the comic. He had one. He had a had it now. Yeah, that was deep. It was deep. Christopher Titus, the comic. He had one.

He had a Bel Air? Yeah. I think he has a 55 that he had made for rides. My buddy Bud Brutsman's show. Is that it? Yeah. That's it. Look at that.

That one is super customized. Yeah, that is. Yeah. That is some heavy work on that. That's a Chip Foose car. Chip Foose designed it. Wow. Yeah, that is. That is some heavy work on that. That's a Chip Foose car. Chip Foose designed it. I mean, that is a goddamn I believe he sold it. But that's a gorgeous

car. Gorgeous car. Look at that thing. My God. Yeah. That's not a Kia. Perfect 55. Yeah. I'm not going out buying a Camry. That's very customized, though. It's perfect. Yeah. That's not a Kia. Perfect 55. Yeah. It's very customized, though. I'm not going out and buying a Camry. That's very customized, though.

There's a lot going on with that car that doesn't... Look at that thing. Oh, my God. That one right there. Look at that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, the retro mod industry's really, you know, come on big.

You see a lot of this in the shows nowadays. And sometimes it's tough. I mean mean if you're looking for something that's just straight up from the numbers and you know is legit it's tough to find sometimes because this is kind of where people are going that direction but anyway so yeah we're going to go over to England

probably stop at the Home Depot outside of London pick up some duct tape some extra wire then pick up the mgp drive around wait for it to break do you uh have someone that can inspect the car for you over there to make sure that it's okay yeah i got yeah i got folks over there i got an office over there and so you know i got some people that happy to go up and but i had talked to these guys for a while i've been looking for for this particular car for a long time yeah you see a lot of crap right and so but this literally had been

owned by a vicar and and garage held forever right and there was just not a not a bit of rust on this thing all the lines the seams are perfect it's just it's really good but the problem has been trying to get over there i was going to go over and you know towards the end of last year to pick it up i've delayed that trip several times it sounds like a one percent problem but um you know it's anyway so we'll go over you're all vaccinated up right i am yeah you get both shots i got both shots i did the moderna thing i got the second shot yeah i did it two weeks ago and uh i've never had never had a reaction to anything right any sort of flu shot or vaccine that and and the agency used to pump us full of all sorts of stuff take it it'll be fine here go downstairs they used to send us down to the uh the office of

medical services downstairs to get some shots to go some shithole somewhere and you never questioned it you know you're always like, yeah, whatever. But I never had a reaction to anything. And the docs used to say, well, this might lay you out for a while, and it'll be fine. So anyway, long story short, a couple weeks ago, I get the second shot of Moderna. And I go in, and they said, well, stick around for 15, 20 minutes,

see if you have a reaction or whatever. See if you die. Yeah, if you die, right? Are you going to fall into a seizure or whatever i didn't so i went home and i was like yeah i'm fine i'm fine i'm fine uh got together with some friends that night because it's idaho so we can actually get together with outside of our bubble and uh and we uh we drank and i woke up the next morning i thought ah yeah i got a hangover right from the yeah too much red wine or whatever and uh and then the rest

of that day, 24 hours, my fever was spiking from like 103 down to 96, right? I mean, I was going from, from, from 103 to 96 in a matter of an hour and a half or so. It was, it was very odd. For 24 hours, it just laid me out. And, uh, that was it then. And after that, I was fine. No problems. But it's the same thing I've heard from just about everybody else I've talked to that have taken that second shot. They say, yeah, about 24 hours, you just feel like shit.

What about younger folks? You know any younger folks that got it? I try not to socialize with younger folks. I'm curious. It makes me sound like Wilford Brimley. I was watching this video where Ben Stein was on the internet, and he was talking about how bad he got wrecked by the second shot. But Ben Stein is like 80, right? Yeah.

I mean, he was a speechwriter for Nixon. Yeah. Yeah. Bueller. Yeah. Bueller. Yeah. Yeah.

He's been around a long time. I'm trying to think. you know i that's not true i do know some folks in their in their uh what were 40s uh early 40s they do they also said the same thing in fact uh one of the guys i got the shots because i was doing some work for a company that's considered to be a whatever they call it a critical infrastructure company and so they put me on their list of people that they wanted to have because they were given a certain number of of uh vaccines so they said you know can you would you mind getting on their list of people that they wanted to have because they were given a certain number of vaccines. So they said, you know, can you, would you mind getting on the list? And so I said, fine. But I remember some of their folks, probably late 30s and early 40s, they all said

the same thing, which is that, yeah, the second shot knocked them on their ass. It varied a little bit, a couple of days, maybe three days, they all had sort of the same thing. Fever, chills, aches, flu symptoms, right, basically. And, again, I didn't think anything of it because I haven't had a reaction in the past. But, yeah, it was, you know, it was kind of shitty. But, you know, I mean, look, I've got some, you know, I had a heart attack, right? I've had cancer, right? So I was happy to get it, right? Because I don't want to, you hear the stories about people get COVID and they've had other

issues in the past. Right. Okay, fine. I felt like, and at my age, whatever I am, 48, I feel like, so I felt like I'm going to get it. And it wasn't that bad, right? In the scheme of things. I don't want to sound like a wh get it and it wasn't that bad right in the scheme of things I don't want to sound like a whiner it really wasn't that bad it was 24 hours of feeling like shit big thing and then the next day you're fine yeah yeah I was fine and then you know did you work out at

all afterwards yeah oh yeah yeah the next day yeah I felt fine I actually felt I feel better if I work out in fact I tried to work out that day when I felt like shit because you get kind of get moving right and you feel you know what it's I mean you know and i you know i went upstairs we got a home gym and i tried to and i tried and i thought fuck that i can't do it you know because it was it's just the temperature changes were just like really screwing with me but um you know it's it is interesting it's i i've been surprised by the number of people who don't want to take it right who are disinclined and included in that number of healthcare people, right, who are saying, eh, I'm going to give it a pass. Yeah.

So I think that surprised a lot of people, right, the general public. And that doesn't send a good message to the general public when they see healthcare professionals saying, ah, I think I'm going to give this a miss. And everybody's got to make that decision. For me, it was like, fine, fuck it, I'll take it. And, you know, again, maybe I'm too simplistic, but, you know, fine. And my wife has got the first shot. She's going to get the second shot at some point here, I think, the next couple of weeks. So it'll be interesting to see because she's somewhat younger than I am.

And then there's that Johnson & Johnson one where you take one shot, but it's not as effective. Yeah, and that's interesting because, again, I think people need to go in and it's just like with everything else, regardless of what you're reading, you need to figure out what the outlet is, right? Because there is no doubt, I keep coming back to the same thing. I sound like I'm beating a fucking dead horse, but the FSB, the Russian Intel Service, is engaged in a covert action campaign right now to denigrate the U.S. manufactured vaccines. So I'm not saying there's not legit information out there that says, you know, you should think about it. Maybe it's not right for you. Fine. But at least know what the hell you're reading, right?

And pay attention to what the sources of information are that you're getting. And until that day when we all can figure out what the intent is immediately, yeah, I mean, pay attention to what you're getting. And until that day when we all can figure out what the intent is immediately, yeah, I mean, pay attention to what you're doing. Whether you're reading about foreign policy or domestic politics or the vaccine, just fucking pay attention.

What's weird is that they want you to take the vaccine even if you've already had COVID and you have the antibodies. That's weird. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. Jamie's got strong antibodies.

Jamie got the, he caught covid in october he was barely sick he didn't even think he had covid he thought he had a sinus infection jamie speak for yourself i'm still strong with antibodies now strong strong strong like fucking ronnie coleman strong like we looked at his uh his antibodies fucking thick thick fat line today today i mean here we are what is it march what the 12th or something what is today today's the 9th march march 9th five months five months strong antibodies the kids are freak yeah look at them well i mean yeah god damn special health right specimen It's got me gutted. But I mean, why would anybody tell him that he has to take a vaccine? That's a thing that keeps coming up, even if you've had COVID. Well, I'll be honest with you.

I didn't know that was the advice. I thought they were saying, you don't need to get in line for the vaccine if you've already had it. I didn't know that. No, they're telling people, even if you've had the vaccine, or excuse me, if you've had COVID, you should still take the vaccine. And I don't necessarily think i understand that yeah i would think they'd be pushing people who have tested positive like

jamie who you know now has superpowers that they would push them to the back of the line basically and say you know what i'm not going to prioritize you for the vaccine because that actually doesn't make sense look you think about that that the population in the U.S. that's had COVID already, and then you think about the numbers that have been vaccinated, and you've got to think, okay, is that line shifting? That line where we thought a year ago, we get to this number, we're approaching herd immunity or whatever they call it. You would think we're almost there, right?

And I don't know. They think we are approaching it. They think we're going to hit right? And I don't know. They think we are approaching it. They think we're going to hit it somewhere around the end of April. That Fauci guy needs to shut the fuck up. Yeah. As much as he's an expert, and God bless him, but he keeps saying that one of the things he said that made me angry, he said, we're never going to shake hands again.

Yeah. We're never going to go back to shaking hands again. I never stopped. Yeah. What the fuck are you saying? Wash your hands. Shaking your hands is not going to kill people stop saying things like that he says too many things that he takes back and too many things that like he said in the beginning the mask don't work and now he's saying wear two masks like come on man i think i think he's he's become

a little enamored of the uh the limelight right i think he's, you know, and that's a natural human thing, I think, but I think he, you know, I'm not saying that he's not, you know, he's a scientist, right? Fine, great. Okay, yo, believe science. But I'm just saying, human condition is, you know, the attention has been not unattractive to him. And so then some of the things he says, and I think that's been part of the problem for the general population,

is the inconsistency of messaging. And I think part of that is because people are starting to realize, look, medicine's not a fucking black and white issue, right? It's not a science. It is a science, but it's not consistent across all human beings. Right, but it's not,

look, there's a lot of educated guesses that go on in medicine. Yes. I had a stress test. I had a full workout for my heart. And they said, whatever you're doing, keep doing. You're in great shape. God bless you.

You're eating a lot of steaks. I eat a lot of steaks. Do you? I like red meat. I'm not going to lie. I like red meat. Me too. Keep talking.

Let me take my pants off. It's good protein, man. Oh, yeah. We're going to lie. I like red meat. Me too. Keep talking. Let me take my pants off. It's good protein, man. Oh, yeah. I'm going to start talking about elk. Elk porn. But then a week later, I have a widow maker on an airplane, right? Just drop on an airplane. What do you mean?

I was going to Puerto Rico to give a speech at a conference. And thank God Emily was with me. We were flying. They said, look, you're coming down to Puerto Rico. give a speech at a conference. And thank God Emily was with me. We were flying. They said, look, you're coming down to Puerto Rico. It's a really nice place. Stay for a few days afterwards. So all I got to do is give a stupid talk for a little while and something boring. And they said, hang out.

So Emily came with me. We were going to have a really great time. We passed through DFW through Dallas. We got to the airport in Dallas, waited for the connection, got on the connection, going to Puerto Rico, get on the connection, going to Puerto Rico, get on the plane, sit there, they wind up the engines,

move off to the taxi, they get to the runway, they literally pointing down the runway, winding up the engines and I look at him and I go, I'm not feeling that and that was the last thing I said. I didn't even get the word good out

and I just collapsed, right? I was done. How long ago was this? This was three years ago. And a week before, I'd had a stress test where they'd said, everything's good, man. You look good. And I got a family that's got a history of heart concerns, right? So that's why I was in for the stress tests.

And if my wife hadn't been with me, I would have died on that plane because everyone would have thought, you know, how the engines wind up and you get ready and people fall asleep. It's just, you know, it's a white noise. So, but she jumped up and said, get this fucking plane back to the gate. And one of the attendants said, would he like some orange juice? Because, I mean, she probably thought I was diabetic or something. And I passed out. And according to a couple of doctors on the plane who came to visit me afterwards, they said my wife was very funny.

She said, he doesn't want any fucking orange juice. Get back to the fucking gate. So we got to the gate. Luckily, the Baylor Grapevine Institute, the Heart Institute is like seven minutes away, right? I couldn't have been luckier. And so we get back to the gate. They get me off the plane.

I wake up on a hospital bed, staring up at the doctor who's like right there in my face, right? And I come to him, and he says, he's very funny, but he says, you know how you can avoid this in the future? And I'm like, where the fuck am I? Is this like, you know, have I gone to the afterlife and this is what it is? I'm, you know, talking to a doctor. And he says, have different parents. And then he laughed, right? That was the first thing I saw when I woke up.

No, he was funny. He's a great guy, great doctor. And then he laughed, right? That was the first thing I saw when I woke up. No, he was funny. He's a great guy, great doctor. Thank God he was there. But anyway, the point being is that what I learned from that episode and then the subsequent treatment and all the other things that go on with it, I should have known before because I'm old enough to be pragmatic. But a lot of medicine is educated guesses, right? And yet the general population, right, has grown up to believe that medicine is science, is definite, is black and white.

Here's your answer. And that's not the way it is. So I think it's natural that with a pandemic like this, of course, there's going to be, it's not misinformation. It's just inconsistent messaging because we're still figuring it out, right? So it's not medicine's fault. It's just the way it is. But that creates this distrust among the public because they're anticipating that it's all going to be clear, right? You're going to get the exact answer

that you want, and it's going to be right. And it's not. So we've had this period of time over this year where people kind of wig out and you get these different sides arguing about things. We're just trying to figure the fuck out. So do the smart thing. Just try to be responsible. Right. But don't expect that, you know,

medicine is going to give you the answers right off the bat and it's going to be correct. Just like don't fucking turn to the federal government. I know where I'm going with this, but don't turn to the federal government for all your answers. And, you know, don't buy an MGB and expect it to work.

And, uh, or a range rover or a range rover yeah so when when you had this heart attack what advice they give you in terms of like how do you keep from having one again uh well they put me on on blood thinners that was a big part of it so did you have like some sort of a clot or something i did i. One side was entirely blocked. Whoa. Yeah. And so that's what they call the widow maker. It just happens. Did they tell you to resume cardio or to have more cardio? Yeah, I went into some sort of very slow.

It was very funny because they put me in this program where I show up and basically it's an exercise program. So I would go there four days a week, and everybody in there was at least like 25 years older than I was. I'm not young, but they were all in there, and so they'd kind of be walking around the track. And I was like, I'm hooked up, and I'm walking around. I made some great friends, frankly. Some of these guys were fantastic. And so you'd go there, and I actually was looking forward to it.

I'd go and have coffee with Fred, and Fred you know 89 years old and we'd have a great time talking and and uh and but they'd be looking at me like i was 20 years old which i kind of enjoyed right because i'm the youngest guy in there but it was so it was a lot of you know build back up your your your level now i work out just like i did before right and i and but the interesting thing is is that they basically now when you go in and you say, because there was some talk about, well, let's do the other side, meaning let's, let's get in there and clear it out, put a couple of stents on the other side and make sure you're all good. But they're like, you know, you talk to one cardiologist and they said, maybe we should. And the other said, eh, maybe we shouldn't. Cause

there's a risk if we go in there. So maybe just wait and then their answer is always kind of like well if you start to feel anything then you know let's we'll go in there and we'll intervene and you think well i didn't feel anything before right so just came out of nowhere i'm just but again being fairly pragmatic i'm thinking well that's that's life right there's no fucking guarantees i don't have a i don't have a problem with that change your perspective at all like having a widowmaker experience where you almost died? Did you get out of that saying, not to be cliche, but every day is a gift, like that kind of shit? Yeah. I mean, look, I had a stretch of time with that, with the heart situation.

I also had colon cancer, right? Because I did what a lot of guys do i thought i put off the uh the colonoscopy and i put it off you're supposed to start when you're 50 i think is the general advice and i was thinking like i i have no interest in going in and getting a colonoscopy it just doesn't it's not the sort of thing that so i always found a reason to put it off i put it off for like five years and then then finally, my wife said, got to go and get it done for no reason. It's just I wasn't feeling bad or anything. She said, you got to go get it done. So I went in. It turns out it's nothing, right? If my one piece of advice

to anybody as a dude, to other guys is go get your fucking colonoscopy because you don't even know it's happening. And it's not like some sort of prison situation. You're fine, right? You're going to wake up. You have no idea it happened. But get it done when you turn 50. Start doing that. Why is it with guys?

Like what is it about guys? I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean I probably should have researched it afterwards. But I remember going in and getting it. And then I'm still doped up right and so i kind of wake up and i'm aware that that uh m standing there talking to the doctor who turned out to be a great doctor she's fantastic and they're talking but i don't know what they're talking about so

then we go from there and i go immediately to another part of the hospital to get some tests done some scans and everything and then i get some more tests done. And then I go home. And I'm happy as a clam, right? Because I'm still lubed up. I'm still just, you know, I've got whatever anesthesia they use. And I'm feeling pretty good. And I go upstairs. I say, I want to take a nap.

I wake up from my nap a couple hours later. And I'm happy as a clam. I'm going to go outside and do some work. And Em says, you have no idea what's going on, do you? And I said, no. So it turns out I had cancer, and they had scheduled me already. I had to go in and get a, you know, they had to take a section of your colon out, right? It turns out we've got like six feet of, everybody's got like six feet of whatever, colon or, again, I'm not a doctor.

But they had to take out a section of it, do the surgery. And I'm like, yeah, I had no idea until it was explained to me. So you go in and you do all of that. And then you've got a period of time where you've got to go through some treatment and everything. But, again, you can sit and you can think about it and you can go, oh, my God, why? I have no history of that in my family. It just happened. It just happened.

As they said, it was an outlier. Do you take vitamins? Do you go in the sauna? Do you do anything to take care of yourself? Yeah, I'm a healthy guy. I mean, in a sense. I mean, I watch, you know, okay, I eat red meat,

but I watch my diet. Red meat's not bad for you. No. I exercise a lot. You know, I've got an active lifestyle. I do all those things, right? There's a lot of people that try to make correlations

between red meat being bad for you, but they're all from epidemiology studies where people are eating cheeseburgers and fries and shakes. Exactly. If you're just eating steak and vegetables, that's normal human food. People have been eating meat since the beginning of people. Yeah. I haven't changed.

I know it sounds weird, but after the heart attack, after the cancer, I haven't changed my diet. Because I had a good diet before. Has anybody tried talking to being a vegan nobody that that knows me well nobody like i got some nieces who are very serious vegans and they're up and they're they're like you know they're like a religious zealot right there's nobody more you know obnoxious than somebody who's adapted a religion right they get zealous about it vegans kind of can be the same way god God bless them. They want to do that. That's fine.

Don't get up in my face about it. I got some family. It's an interesting psychological thing because they just want to show everybody that they're doing the right thing. And they really do believe in it. It's weird. I have a friend who's a vegan who's a real asshole. He's such a shitty person to other people that aren't vegans. It's like, isn't this supposed to be all about kindness? Meanwhile, you're just a terrible person to people.

But it's like a lot of other things, right? It's just like, you know, it's like wearing a mask. Fine. I don't care about wearing a mask. I'll wear a mask, but don't get up in my face about, you know. Well, there's things that happen where people use those opportunities as uh it's a moment for them to yell at folks it's a moment for them to be righteous and you know yeah never underestimate the strength of of the power of of of someone feeling righteous and smarter than anybody else and that's and again but but to answer your question about every day

a gift and everything you know what i i kind of felt that way before, right? I've seen my family go and I've seen siblings and good friends. So I always felt like, you know, yeah, every day is a gift, but I don't think you need some sort of life-changing moment if your priorities are right to think that well some people that life-changing moment though is just enough of a jolt to just let you know like this is real because sometimes we all know we're going to die but it's not something you dwell on but when you almost die yeah don't you dwell on it more um for a little while i tell you what the one the one reaction to the heart attack on the plane was getting on other planes, right? And I got to travel a lot, you know, for my line of work.

And so there was that moment where I get on a plane because you feel like, okay, I got no choice. If I'm sitting on a 13-hour flight and I'm halfway through it, I'm fucked if something else happens, right? So there was that side of it. But otherwise, no. There was no come-to-Jesus moment where I thought, oh, my God. I will say this. I don't dwell on death, but I do find myself—this sounds really odd, but I find myself sometimes thinking, you know, I just want—like, just give me 25 more years or give me 30 more years or whatever because— What do you plan on doing in those 30 years? sometimes thinking you know i just want uh like just give me 25 more years so

give me you know give me 30 more years or whatever because what are you planning on doing in those 30 years well you know what i nothing i just want to see my kids grow up and you don't want to leave them behind yeah it's like yeah it's like it's like um you know what's that old line from uh butch cassidy the sundance kid butch said uh know, I always thought when I grow up, I was going to be a hero. I don't think that I'm going to be a hero when I grow up, right? But I want to see my kids grow up. That, to me, is the driver. I got young kids,

right? I got young boys. So I want to see them grow up. You know what line I thought you were going to say? What? When they're about to jump off the cliff. Yeah. One of them goes, I can't swim. He goes, doesn't matter. The fall's probably going to kill you anyway. It's going to kill you. Yeah. So many good lines out of that movie yeah i know yeah oh my god yeah i people i don't think i don't think anybody under i don't think anybody at 40 actually remembers that movie no it's a great movie oh god it was funny yeah yeah there's a lot of those movies man from those days

and you know people they they told stories different back then yeah yeah there was more character development and fewer explosions it wasn't influenced by like um you know these um these studies these focus groups they're trying to figure out what people tune into what people don't tune into they were just trying to tell a story yeah yeah yeah and and and it was and you could develop the story in a slower fashion yeah right there wasn't in part because i go back to what we were talking about the access to information right it's created shorter attention spans right um it's too much yeah and so people want that answer right away they want they they want satisfaction right away they want you know i'm gonna buy something i'm gonna buy it right away i you know i want the story to get over with so you know i can move on to the next. I'm going to buy it right away. You know, I want the story to get over with.

So, you know, I can move on to the next one. I'm going to binge watch something. And so, yeah, I think there was something to that. I mean, there were a lot of bad movies made in the old days. But, I mean, you know, a lot of them did allow for more dialogue, more story development, more character development. They appreciated and respected your intelligence enough that you could sit and watch something. A couple years back, it's been a couple years, but a couple years back I watched Le Mans

with Stephen Queen. Yes. And the beginning of the movie, there's no dialogue for a long ass time. For a long ass time, it's just setting up this scenario. That's a great movie. Great movie. And you realize what those guys had to go

through back then, driving those race cars in the 1960s. Yeah. Those things were death traps. Yeah. Death traps and a lot of physical work. Oh, yeah. You were beat to hell by the time you finished. Well, Le Mans is 24 hours.

Yeah. You're driving for a full day. I mean, that's part of what the race was about, was your mental endurance. Yeah. That's a good result. If all this does is get people to watch Le Mans or Butch Cassidy, that's great. That's a great result. And pay attention to China.

Yeah, and pay attention to China. Going back to, I did want to touch on the Syria thing because I think it is important. What is going on over there? Well, I think it's interesting for a couple of reasons, but one is just I found interesting was the realization amongst a lot of people that we still had troops over in Iraq, right? That seemed to catch a lot of people off guard because what happened was there's Eastern Syria where we did the airstrikes a couple of weeks ago. did the airstrikes a couple of weeks ago, we struck a facility that is essentially a hub, a center for transportation of fighters, foreign fighters, and money and hardware, weapons, that the Iranians have set up. The Iranians have basically created a transportation system from Tehran to all the way to Beirut, right, in their effort to try to control the region.

And so you had this eastern Syria outpost with Iranian-backed militia, and they were engaged in occasional attacks against U.S. and coalition forces, right? So they were lobbing missiles, and there were a couple of incidents where we lost contractors and some coalition members. And so essentially, what happened was the Biden administration, I think correctly so, said, okay, look, we got to do something. We got to send a message. And so they did. They struck a facility there run by some Iranian-backed militia. there uh run by some iranian backed militia but the news that it was because of the attacks that they were committing on u.s forces in iraq that's the interesting part because it caught people by surprise and going what the fuck you we still got people in iraq because we've gone we've gone well

beyond that time when you know support our troops and we all stay you know wounded warrior and was always you know the ads up there and everybody thought about it, right? But it's been, I think about how many years it's been, right? And so I think we've forgotten that we still have, we don't have many, but we still have troops over there. And so it raised an interesting question, which is an important one to talk about, I think, which is, you know, why are we still over there? Or what are we doing over there? Or what's our end game? What's our reason for being, right? And, you know, look, 19 years, 20 years since we've been in Afghanistan, as an example, and what the, you know, what's the point? And so I think that's a legitimate conversation to have, regardless of where you fall on the answer. I think it's a good question to have,

and we should be talking about it. But we don't because we get wrapped up in domestic politics or we get wrapped up in covid or whatever it is so occasionally something like that happens that causes people to shift their focus outside of their bubble and outside the u.s and think about what the hell else is going on in the world and that's from my perspective anyway that's a good thing right because there is a lot of happening over there but it's just shocking how little coverage there is yeah because how much coverage there is about ted cruz wanting to go to cancun right yeah if you look at the difference that was in the front center of the media it was that was the thing they were talking about the most that was all because that's and they know that look most most journalism now is on social media in a sense right it's and so it's all about getting clicks on your story, which is why headlines are so sensational,

oftentimes don't line up with the actual story then, right? Because all you want to do is you want to get people clicking on it, right? Or talking about it. And that's the way that journalism gets driven forward. So yeah, it's no surprise that Ted Kuhn, or Ted Kuhn, Ted Kuhn, Ted Cruz and Ted Kuhn. Who's Ted Kuhn?

I was combining Ted Kuhn and Ted Cruz. I came up with Ted Kuhn. I'm not saying not to go with it, Cancun, Ted Cruz and Cancun. Who's Ted Cune? I was combining Cancun and Ted Cruz. I came up with Ted Cune. I'm not saying not to go with it. So that's why that gets the attention. And airstrikes in Syria, you're not going to get the clicks on that, right? People aren't going to go, oh, that's interesting. It's outrageous to see Ted Cruz in the middle of a crisis that's happening in Texas, his state. He's a senator.

He decides to leave the state and go to a resort in Mexico. Yeah. That's going to get more clicks and likes. People are like, you son of a bitch. Yeah. Yeah. So it's from, again, it makes sense why certain stories drive a narrative, right? Because, again, because people have sort of a very short attention span, limited time in their day to gather information.

They're going to go for the salacious thing. And so, yeah, Cruz and Cancun, why not? Syria, eh. It's too complicated. It's too complicated, and it's also so far away. It's hard for people to wrap their heads around it. Yeah. But it is—I mean, it will be very interesting to see where this administration goes.

I mean, again, God bless them. I hope they do well. We should hope that the Trump administration did well. We should, you know. You should always hope they do well because if they do well, we do well. Exactly. The problem is when people don't want them to do well. Like, I was hearing people saying that they wanted the economy to tank so it would get

people to realize that Trump's a fraud. Like, why the fuck would you want the economy to tank? Yeah. It's like, even if you hate Trump, you'd want him to do well because then the country does well. Yeah, it seems like a simple equation. Yeah. But. You don't know the guy.

It's not like you talk to him every day. Oh, this dick again. Like, just stop watching CNN. Yeah. You won't be so angry. Well, the problem is access to instantaneous information. That's the problem. Isn't it weird how they're taking out Cuomo now?

Oh, New York. Although with New York, you're probably one more sexual harassment allegation away from opening up New York. Getting the restaurants open. And so I think they're probably hoping one more woman will show up and say, yeah. Yeah, but de Blasio doesn't want anything to be opened up. That fucking moron. Yeah. It is.

Yeah. Although it's interesting to see the dynamic, right, with Cuomo. And de Blasio, they've never seen eye to eye. They've always been kind of going at each other. And de Blasio sees this as a moment. Yes. And I think he felt like he was probably done, right? Nobody really wants him as mayor in New York,

the people that are in New York, and so he probably sees this as a possible entrance ramp to the governor's slot. He might be able to make his way. Really? Everybody hates him. Everybody hates him, but look. Do you see that video that he put out?

Stranger things have happened in politics. I don't know about that. That's pretty strange. Even liberals don't like de Blasio Did you see that video that he put out About bringing the arts back to New York Yes Did you see that

With the bad dancing The out of sync music Yeah And the uncoordinated dancing That was the weirdest thing ever That was like a That was a part of a Coen Brothers movie That's what that was like

That was like the Big Lebowski Like you're watching this You're like what am I seeing I just watched that again the other night. Fuck, that movie's good. It's so fucking good. Such a good movie, man. You know what I watched the other night?

A lot of my friends. Face down in the muck. Died. Chinaman. I don't think you're supposed to say Chinaman. There's so many good things in that movie. Great movie. You know what I watched the other night that's a great movie that I kind of forgot how good

it was? Napoleon Dynamite. Oh. My God, that was good. My God, that was good. My 10-year-old did not understand it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She just, there's certain aspects of him. She's like, he's dumb. I'm like, that's the point. Yeah. The point is that it's all dumb. That's a brilliant movie. My kids, again, we're out in Idaho. My kids have all watched it.

They love that movie. Fuck, that movie's funny. Isn't it in Idaho? It is, yeah. Does it take place in Idaho? Yeah, have all watched it. They love that movie. Fuck, that movie's funny. Isn't it in Idaho? It is, yeah. Does it take place in Idaho? It's a couple hours outside of Boise. God, it's funny. My youngest boy, Muggsy, can do the entire dance.

Jamiroquai, I think, did the music for that. And Can't Heat or whatever that song was. And he can do that entire dance. He did it for a talent show at school one time which was absolutely brilliant but the uncle who wants to uncle rico machine yeah uncle rico wants to go back in time to when he was playing football in high school i could throw that football over that mountain in the dojo a dojo bow to your sensei it's just brilliant it's a funny movie god that was funny

yeah there he is yeah yeah La Fonda remember La Fonda La Fonda La Fonda turns out to be real

don't worry don't worry Damoli you'll find your soulmate one day yeah and everyone's thinking that La Fonda's fake turns out she's real

and they really do love each other it's a great movie man I caught you a tasty bass god god that's no you're right that's a great movie, man. I caught you a tasty bass. God. God, that's a... No, you're right. That's a... You know, again, there's certain movies that...

I had my boys watch Old School the other day. That's a great one, too. Yeah. There's some movies I think the kids, boys at a certain age should always watch. I sound like I'm sexist, but you know what I'm going to say. But I got boys, so they should watch these movies. But yeah, Old school's great. Step Brothers.

Isn't it funny that it's sexist if you say there's movies that you think a boy should watch, but it's not sexist if you say there's movies that I think girls should watch? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. We got International Women's Day. We just had International Women's Day.

Yeah, because men are all scared. Yeah, we don't have men's day. We're scared of being called out for being sexist. Yeah. We have to be careful. You have to be careful about everything, right? Right. In fact, that's what Emily told me.

She dropped me off here. Be careful. You're talking to Rogan. It's probably I. No, no, no. She loves your show, but she's worried about me. She's worried about me saying something stupid. Have you taken heat from shit you said on here in the past?

Yes. Yes, I have. And a lot of it. But that's fine. What's the big one? Well, you know what? The big one's in sort of a general category where you say that like the far right,

you know, they're full of shit and the far left's full of shit. And then people get upset because they think, what I get mostly is, well, if you're in the middle, you don't stand for anything that's ridiculous well that's what but that's what you hear mostly is because because you say something about you know how fucked up the far like the mask burning like that's fucked up right and or you say something stupid about like the far left you know not seeing the irony of wanting to ban books you know and you're thinking okay okay, fine.

But then you get called out because you exist somewhere in the center where you're trying to see that there's smart ideas on both sides. And yet people are so angry that they don't want that, right? And it's like that idea that we were talking about before, where the people who are shining during the pandemic, who love the suffering in a sense, right, who really don't want us to return to a normal because they've actually found this to be a good time for them. And that sounds wrong. I know that sounds wrong. You know, a lot of people. But there are some people who seem to suffer well.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, to some degree, the same people who grieve well. Right. And, you know, to some degree, they're the same people who grieve well, right? You know, you get those people who they didn't know the person who died, but, you know, my God, they're grieving more than anybody else, including immediate family. And so I don't know. I probably don't want to disappear. I'll say something stupid and then I'll get caught out again. But what do you think of saying that was maybe stupid?

Let's talk about this Capitol Hill shit. What do you think about that because we haven't talked about that yet that's happened since the last time i saw you yeah that's you know what that's a good example of getting called out on shit i i did a a show on the 6th right it was a news uh a news segment where i was talking and i said that president trump's reaction that day was pathetic. And that's what I said, right? And my point was, is that a lot of what he did over his four years, it was just self-inflicted wounds. It was unnecessary, right?

And a lot of the noise was unnecessary. It was because of his personality and the way that he responded, right? Now, I know his base loved that because they felt like, well, that's real, right? And he's really speaking truth to power. He's not part of the swamp and all that. But my point was, look, you can be smart enough as the president of the United States to come out and immediately say, regardless of what's going on, just say, back the fuck off. Yeah.

Like, this is wrong. Right. Don't do it. Right. You can protest, but not violently and get the fuck out of the Capitol building. Right. Right. And he didn't do it, right? You can protest, but not violently, and get the fuck out of the Capitol building, right? And he didn't do that. It was sort of the same thing that he always does, which is it's not a strong statement,

and it's a self-inflicted wound. So I said that, and man, did I take some fucking heat, right? From who? From the right side, from the right side, who's saying, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, full of shit. What people on the right don't think that that's wise? That's what I understand. Well, it's the people on the right don't think that that's wise? That's what I understand. Well, it's the people on the farthest spectrum, which again, I go back to the same thing.

But even now, now they have to understand that they were wrong. You would think so. But I think a lot of people don't. A lot of people still think, look, was there fraud in the election? Yes, I believe it. But there's fraud in every election, right? It's just, it's the nature of the beast, right? What I said was like, do you think that the fraud in the election was zero?

No one thinks that. No. I mean, how much do you think the fraud was? Do you think the fraud was enough to shift the election one way or the other? I don't. I don't think so either. But I think- But I don't know.

But I think that if we allow, if we allow to normalize certain aspects of the electoral system, I think what you're doing – look, I work in fraud all the time. That's what my guys do in my business. That's all they do. They work in fraud. If you allow conditions to create the potential for fraud, then people are going to fill that gap and they're going to rush in and they're going to engage in fraud. So if you – this is the part that I can't figure out. Everybody should want, right or left, to allow the ability, the easy access to vote for every U.S. citizen.

But we should also want to not have people who aren't citizens or whatever. I mean, just to not allow fraud into the system. And so I have a hard time understanding how people can't come together and say, yeah, we want integrity in our electoral system. Do you think any other country allows for a sort of lax program that says, yeah, we're not going to check. program that says, eh, we're not going to check, and we're just going to—we're so keen to show how righteous we are that everybody has easy access to voting that we're not going to check and make sure we're a citizen. I guarantee you every other country makes sure that the people voting are citizens of that country if they're given the right to vote, right? We don't do that.

Well, what I'm saying is there's a potential if we just expand the ability to vote in our desire. To non-citizens. Right. Well, no, I'm not even saying non-citizens. What I'm saying is the way that we allow people to vote. If we don't have integrity in ensuring that the vote is coming from a legitimate citizen, right, and the right and the left should want

that. You want people to be able to vote. Of course you want fucking people to vote. It's like believe science. Of course you believe science. But you want everybody to be able to vote and you want them to be able to do it easily. But you also want to make sure that you're not opening it up in your desire to allow people to vote so that you don't have the ability to check and make sure that there's no fraud. So that doesn't seem to be a heavy lift. Allow easy access to voting for every U.S. citizen, but ensure that the integrity of the system allows you to make sure that you

just have U.S. citizens voting for your country's elections. That's what every other country does. And again, it goes back to that thing about sometimes we apologize for it. It's a righteous idea that, you know, well, I don't know. Let me ask you this instead of like examining all the problems. What could be done to make voting more secure? Like is it possible to vote online? I mean I've said why is it that we can bank online but we can't vote online? Yeah. Well, I think if your system, part of the problem,

I think, is if your system isn't clearly explainable and transparent, if people can't look at it and go, I see. And the reason why, like in-person voting, right, the day of the election was for so long, nobody questioned it, was because that's simple. That's transparent. You can look at it and you say, yeah, I get it. That's what happens. It's election day. Everybody go to the voting polls and vote. And so if you're doing it online or there's just unsolicited mail-in ballots, then people can look at that and legitimately go, well, I don't understand it. And so therefore, I don't know that it's credible. Do you think the mail-in ballots leave more of an opportunity for fraud?

There's a potential. Do I think – I mean, again, I go back to the same thing. Do I think there was enough in this – no. There wasn't so much fraud. But I think that – Do you think there was fraud on both sides? Do you think there's fraud on the Republican side and the Democrat side? Oh, sure.

So it probably cancels itself out? Well, I think it's – there's a – again, you go back to the human condition. I think it's – if there's an opportunity for fraud, I don't think Republicans are going to be less inclined than Democrats or Democrats are less inclined than Republicans. I just think it's the way it works. But it's – I think you have to have a transparent, clearly explainable system that you can look at and go, yes, I get it. That's why. And so I'm a big fan of in-person voting and unsolicited mail-in ballots. No. In the old days, we had absentee ballots and that was, look, we changed the rules to try to accommodate for the pandemic. And that made sense, right?

But there has to be an ability for both sides to look at the system and say it's credible because it's clearly explainable and transparent. And I just don't think that's where we're at right now. That's what created this confusion and distrust. That's a very dangerous thing. And also then we had outside elements trying to drop in there with their covert action campaigns to seed that inability to believe in the system.

So yeah, we better get this nailed down before the next election. Otherwise, we're going to have the same problems. Yeah, I'm worried that Trump comes back in 2024. And I'm worried that these people that were at the Capitol building get more organized and more emboldened. The only difference is what's really kind of hilarious is these dummies were also anti-maskers. So they all showed up. I mean, it was like a perfect storm of stupid yeah it was a perfect storm of stupid because if you think about it the facial recognition abilities that we have now all they had to do is wear masks yeah

you fucking idiots you could wear a mask and you'd be totally justified nobody would ever catch you perfect opportunity to wear a mask and not be identified yeah and these fucking idiots are putting their feet up on n Pelosi's desk and taking photos. Yeah. But then they got into a hot wash, and we still haven't gotten the results of that yet in terms of the, you know, what was the breakdown in all of this?

Why was it so difficult to just simply secure the Capitol building, right? Well, look at the difference between when the Black Lives Matter protests were there and they had hundreds of security guards surrounding the Capitol building versus this. Right. It was a pittance. Right.

And what was – I think that's an easy thing to do, right? To walk that back and say, okay, let's do an investigation. But the problem is with D.C. is they seem incapable of doing an investigation into anything, right? It's where good investigations go to die. And yet these sort of things happen all the time. You do a hot wash of some scenario or something that happened, you can do that. But in D.C., because of the dysfunctional nature of that place, I don't think we're going to get any sort of easy answers out of this. But it should be relatively simple.

I know some of the people that were in the sergeant in the Sergeant of Arms office there and Capitol building and Capitol Police guys. And it shouldn't be difficult to say, what's the timeline? Who talked about security in the days leading up to this? Who requested additional security? Why was it denied? All these things need to be looked at and then explained to the general public in a clear and nonpartisan way. Do I think that's going to happen?

No, because it's Washington, D.C. Do you think that the attack on Capitol Hill in many ways is like what happens when the social media chickens come to roost? we've had on social media that is accentuated by algorithms it does it does uh it emphasizes these echo chambers where people believe the election was stolen they only communicate with other people that believe and you're a patriot if you go there we're going to get together patriots they were calling themselves patriots violating the law right violating the capitol hill storming the gates killing a cop and you're calling yourself a patriot. Look, I mean, I think the vast majority of those people, right, once they found themselves inside the Capitol building,

were probably like, oh, fuck, I'm in the Capitol building. But you had some of those people who knew exactly what they were doing, and so they should be punished, of course. But I think that, yes, I think social media played a big role in it. I think Trump himself, you know, I know people were saying, well, he said he called for peaceful protests. Well, yes, but he could have done it in a better way. He could have been more demanding. I don't think he anticipated that they were going to do that.

I think he thought they were going to go there and chant and scream like what has always happened. Yeah. And that would be the end of it. Right. Yeah, exactly. Do I think Trump, you know, intended or thought that they were going to storm the Capitol? and scream like what has always happened and that would be the end of it right do i yeah exactly do i think trump you know intended or thought that they were going to storm the capital but of course not no but he did want to incite them to cheer and chant and sure and let people know on his behalf like the same like that tape that got leaked of him calling up the governor of georgia

and telling them to change the election results yeah and be a patriot like that kind of shit everything's just yeah disconcerting everything's everything's a problem with his messaging yeah self-inflicted wounds and look we we talked back in uh what november right i think was the last time and i think at that time i said that uh you know, he's losing the election and he should, the next important thing was going to be the Georgia Senate runs, right? If, you know, if you're a Republican, you should be pissed off that he wasn't smart enough to understand that after the election, he should have turned his attention to Georgia and simply said, all you got to do now is you got to focus on Georgia. You got to get out there and vote.

You got to do everything possible. He couldn't do that, right? He couldn't do it. Now, look, that doesn't mean I don't like some of the policies of the previous administration, right? You can have disagreements with the person who's in the White House and still like the policies, right? The foreign policy, the attitude towards China and the way that we dealt with China, some

of the other things that we were doing. That's great. We don't live in that world now where you can separate and kind of, you know, look and analyze policies from people, right? Now it's like, if you say, look, there were self-inflicted wounds, people go, oh, you're fucked up. You're not a Republican and you hate the – no. I'm just saying, look, he clearly, through his actions, caused the Republicans to lose Georgia.

He could have – from that bully pulpit of his, he could have pushed and we probably would have won both of those elections in Georgia. But he didn't do that. How could he have done that? What could he have done differently? Simply by shutting up about election fraud and realizing that this is, the Democrats, one thing that they do, right? And again, I'm a centrist here, but one of the things that I always thought Democrats do well is they focus on the end result, right? On the game, right, on the game plan. And sometimes Republicans get lost in, like, principle and theory and the purity of it all, right? And it's like with, I don't know.

So I think that what he could have done was just immediately pivot after the national election, the presidential election, and said, look, we're all disappointed, right? This is not the result that we wanted. But now we have an important task ahead of us, and that is the two Senate seats in Georgia. If you like the policies that we've been promoting and you like the deregulation or you like the China policy or whatever it is, focus your attention in Georgia.

But do you think that would have made a difference? Because the people that are on the fence, do you think there's that many people that are on the fence that would have voted Republican but wound up voting Democratic? Because he... I don't think they wound up voting Democratic. I think they just stayed home. I think what they did was they sowed this belief

in the lack of integrity of the election system. And they probably thought, oh, fuck it. They stole the first one. They're going to steal this one. So I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to protest or whatever it might be. So I think that's where the mistake was. But again, look, what the hell? I hope the Biden administration does a great job. I hope they- Do you think he's going to make it four years? I hope he does. Yeah, of course he does. I mean- Of course, I hope the Biden administration does a great job. I hope they— Do you think he's going to make it four years? I hope he does. Yeah, of course he does.

Of course, I hope he does. Yeah, of course he does. Do you think he's going to make it four years? You know, what am I— If you had a bet. If I had a bet. Your last hundred bucks. We have a bet.

What's our bet? We have a bet that—I bet that Trump won't come back and run again. Oh, he's coming back. Oh, you—I know. How much was our bet? What was it, Jamie? A thousand bucks? A thousand bucks?

I think it was. I can't wait to spend that money. I think it was a thousand dollars. I'm just reminding you because I still think I'm going to win. I'm spending it right now. He's coming back. What are you going to spend it on? Oh, good stuff.

All kinds of good stuff. Good stuff. I'm going to buy an eagle sculpture. A big screaming eagle sculpture. He's coming back sculpture he's coming back i don't know i don't i don't think so but what did you think about when they attached in the covet relief bill 180 days for the cia to release all the information they have about the ufos that's one of the things i love about this is we can go from there to there? Yeah. Oh, my God. It's fantastic. Yeah, we can't be taken seriously that way.

Yeah. No, no. But I will say this. I tell people this all the time. They say, why is it so entertaining? I say, because he's curious about everything. He's genuinely curious about everything. And that's a good question.

Look, I'm happy that when it comes to UFOs, there's a lot of things that the agency needs to keep off the radar, right? For sources and methods, right? It's a need-to-know issue. And frankly, again, going back to what's in the U.S. best interest, for that day when China decides to release all of their intel operations and information, then great. Maybe it's time for us to be transparent.

But that's not the way the world works. Do you think that's what it is? A lot of it is just secret programs, defense vehicles? Well, no. What I'm saying is, oh, in terms of the UFO thing? Yeah. Yeah, a great portion of it is. Yeah.

How much? 50%? Oh, now the 47% actually. But don't tell anybody I said that. That's well known inside the community. No, look, I think it's good because I think the—look, it's for the same reason that Pentagon released the information about AATIP, about the Advanced Aeronautical Threat Identification Program. I think it's actually good. There's no reason why we shouldn't, unless you are talking about developmental aircraft as an example right

which is important because when you're talking about hypersonic aircraft or missiles or whatever it is there's some stuff that needs to be kept off the off the radar screen uh because there is a tremendous competition going on right now for particularly for things like control of space that's that's going to be a huge issue right right? Because the weaponization of space, for a long time, people were thinking, ah, space, it's a great exploration, and it's good for mankind. Frankly, you know, there is a race to figure out how to weaponize space. And so as an example of what we're talking about, the idea of just saying, oh, we're going to open the books as a country and reveal all our information about you know developmental aircraft as an example that's the wrong move right because but do you think there are any credible stories whether it's

from commander david fravor who saw that tic-tac vehicle off the coast of san diego or whatever video yeah if i had to point to one i would say say Fravor. Yeah. I would say without a doubt, I'd say the one that if I were somebody who's looking for some redemption, because I've been beating the drum about UFOs and nobody's ever believed me. They always roll their eyes. I would say the one thing that would give them comfort would be the, the incident with Commander Fravor and, and that sighting.

That's, that's one that I have yet to see an explanation for that makes any sense. Well, not only that, there was, they tracked it. Yeah. Like there's, yeah. And then also it blocked their, uh, radar systems, which is an act of war and actively jammed radar systems.

It's, it's, it's not simple as like they saw something they didn't know what it was like they tracked this thing going from i think it was close to 80 000 feet above sea level to one down yeah in one second yeah no signs of propulsion yeah uh no heat signatures nothing right and it was just it was a yeah it's it's one of those things you look at and you go okay and look the atip program made sense in the sense that you a nation is out there, if the Chinese are out there or the Russians or whomever, and they're developing propulsion capability that we don't know about, then, yeah, we should have a mechanism within the Pentagon, within the intel community to understand what that is. Let's research it. Let's investigate. And so oftentimes they come to a

logical conclusion the fravor incident i have yet to see any um information that explains it right so that to me and and also as you pointed out the way that it was uh tracked the the verification of it from very credible uh you know individuals uh that to me, is like the prime example. And they have video footage of this thing, too. And then on top of that, the Nimitz... Yeah, they have gun camera footage that's incredible. Yeah, and the Nimitz saying that these things are fairly common, that they're seeing them every couple of weeks.

They were seeing them when Fravor's like, hey, guys, what the fuck is this? And they're like, yeah, you see it? Yeah. We've been seeing these things. And there's no upside for somebody like that, a very well-respected, you know, aviator with great experience. There's no upside for these guys to come forward, right?

In fact, there's pressure to not because it's not necessarily good for your career, right, to come in and say, I think I saw a UFO, right? What do you think is going on? I don't know. We've talked about that before. I'm not, you know. I'm trying to get the right answer out of you. I keep asking until you forget what you said before.

Yeah, I know, right? You forgot about the damn bet. I shouldn't have opened my mouth. I don't know. People will go back to that, though. They would have called me out. If Trump comes back and runs, they would have said, oh, you owe him $1,000.

Can't wait to get that fucking screaming eagle in here that I'm going to buy. I'll buy it for you with the money, and I'll put a little plaque on there to say where it came from. Big bronze eagle. I know. Big. I've got one. I gave a speech one time for a Veterans Day event, and they gave me this big eagle.

I keep it in my office now. It's fantastic. I keep it in the background when I do news segments from my office, and it's perched over my shoulder. You've got to have one in here. Anyway, I don't know. You think about it at all? Yeah, I do. And like I said, with Black Files to Classify

coming up, I just got another plug-in. We're going to do an episode. That's on the Discovery Channel, isn't it? It is on Discovery Channel. And you know what? You can see the entire first season on Discovery+. So, I That's on the Discovery Channel, isn't it? It is on Discovery Channel. And you know what? You can see the entire first season on Discovery+. So I think it's foolish to discount these things because there's so much we don't know. And the idea of thinking that somehow we're the only credible life forms out there I think is ridiculous. out there i think is ridiculous so i think it's a it's a high possibility that um that that there's yes i i do think that but at the same time then i also question uh sort of the the way that

that's great if if some alien life force with amazing technology that we can't even fathom right now comes to visit us then what the hell are they doing are they just sort of like watching us just for the entertainment value or so i'm always puzzled by that part like you know the idea that you know i i know they probably want to observe but they won't don't want to interfere it's probably if they're super advanced they probably realize there's a process that intelligent life goes through where there's stages of their evolutionary development in terms of use of technology understanding of each other mitigation process that intelligent life goes through where there's stages of their evolutionary development in terms of use of technology understanding of each other mitigation of war and conflict and then ultimately entrance into the galactic federation

i'm on board that i'm good i'm good that's if I had a guess that's what I would think I hope we get good uniforms for the Space Force Space Force like that one over there the silver one right I didn't see that

we wear that when we get high and do shows sometimes that's fantastic it looks like something out of Better Call Saul it's from Amazon.com I got it from Amazon I've been watching that again

you watch Better Call Saul I've never seen it oh you should watch it I'm watching it again a second time around it's? I've never seen it, no. Oh, you should watch it. I'm watching it again a second time around. It's actually really good. It's, you know, it's that sort of like...

Yeah, Breaking Bad. Yeah, so it's actually very entertaining. It's well written, but yeah, it's Saul's... It's not as good as that Blackfile show, though, right?

It's not as good as the Blackfile show, which the first season's on Discovery+. And we're going to start filming in mid-April, traveling around the country, doing all the... And you are going to start filming in mid-April. Traveling around the country, doing all the... And you are going to cover UFOs.

We are covering UFOs. Anything else salacious we could add before we wrap this up? I think that's about it. Actually, we're getting... I shouldn't say that. This is interesting. We're getting into... We've invested recently in the cannabis business.

Yeah, I know. I'm, uh, I'm starting to become a believer. I'm not a believer in Bitcoin yet, but I'm a believer in the cannabis business. Well, it's a fucking giant business. It's like not being a believer in trees. Yeah. They're out there. It's like the Lorax. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, no, it's, uh, we've, uh, we've, uh, but we're but we're hitting it from a different direction. We're hitting it from, because I've always thought, I've done some work, a couple of shows on the problems that are around cannabis in terms of the cash economy, the inability of banking systems to get involved and all of that. So we're going in on a business that does the, is worried about the tax and banking side of things. So it's sort of the intersection of the trade with commerce and pulling it into sort of the legitimate world of commerce. Well, that's one of the hopes of the Biden administration, that they'll pass some sort of federal law on marijuana, that they'll change it and make it legal, which I think they should.

They should. I think it's time at this point. Look, the horse has left the barn, regardless of where anybody thinks about, like, you know. Yeah, you don't have to smoke it. No, no. But in terms of legitimizing it and getting it out of sort of the cash economy, I think so. Anyway, this business, it's backed by Snoop Dogg, actually.

Oh, my goodness. Casa Verde. Perfect. Yeah. So it's a business that is working on that portion of it. And I think it's – so it's interesting. It's not like a grower. It's not the production side.

And I think in that regard, it makes more sense. But it's sort of an initial foray, you know. And, you know, for a guy that came out of the agency, that's an interesting thing. It is. Yeah. Congratulations to you. Thank you very much. Open them eyes.

Look around. Maybe take a little hit yourself. Gummies. I was playing golf the other day with a guy who said he had a big bag of gummies. Oh, that's a dangerous person. I know, but he said, you want some gummies? And I was like, I'm playing golf, dude. I'm just out here playing golf.

And he goes, oh, it's going to improve your game. Improves pool. It definitely improves pool. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smoking pot improves pool tremendously. There's no way. 100%.

Do you smoke or just edibles? I do both. Yeah. But when I smoke pot, well, edibles too. My game gets about a ball better. Really? Yeah, a ball better means like if you were playing someone and you're playing nine balls, someone would give you the eight ball if they were a little bit better than you.

Yeah. I'm like one ball better when I smoke pot. I have a better feel. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of pool players, like high level pool players,

like Earl Strickland, one of the best pool players of all time, smokes a lot of weed. Really? Or are they, is it sort of like the halfway, like what do they call it?

What do they call it? Delta 8 or something like that? Yeah. What is that shit, Jamie? You were telling me about that stuff that's legal, right? What is that stuff? I haven't gone to buy it that stuff that's legal, right? What is that stuff? I haven't gone to buy it yet.

What's that? It's legal, though, right? There's some weird... What is it? It's like a variation of... I think it's called Delta 8 THC. Delta 9 is what gets everybody really high. Right, but this is like a more mild...

A little more mild. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's legal because it's derived from hemp, which is not a controlled substance in most states. Me and my friend Tommy Jr., whenever we play, when I see him in New York, he plays real good. And whenever we play, we get barbecued first, and then we play. I'm telling you, you play better.

It's better? Yeah, you play better. You really do. We play a lot of pool at our house. We've got a pool table downstairs. Yeah, and the boys are very good at it. Well, if I lose that thousand bucks to you, I know how I'm getting it back.

I'll take you up on that. Actually, you come up and hunt some elk. Okay. Up in Idaho. We'll play some pool. Oh, you'll play some pool for money.

Yeah. Okay. You better bring a lot of money. You better bring that damn Eagle. Cause I'm going to take that Eagle from you. All right, my friend. Well,

always good to see you again. Your show is coming out it's out on Discovery Plus you can get it right now and the new season starts yeah later in the year

we're starting to film in mid April alright well always fun always fun thanks Mike goodbye everybody