The Joe Rogan Experience - #1635 - Katie Spotz

Episode Date: April 15, 2021

Katie Spotz is an endurance athlete, author, and philanthropist. She's the only American to have rowed solo from Africa to South America.

the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day okay hello Katie how are you what's happening yeah not much not much at all this is very uneventful for you it's funny that you're nervous to do this but yet you're not nervous to row a boat well you might have been nervous were you nervous to row across the Atlantic I definitely was nervous and I think like that is a good thing to be able to channel that energy to you know make sure bad things don't happen but that was definitely more of my comfort zone than doing something like this is that the great well obviously it's the craziest thing you've ever done, right? I shouldn't say obviously. Well, I think that like the last endurance challenge, it was like running 33 hours straight. And I think that hit my physical limit more than the

row did. Like after the row, I felt like my body could probably continue going. Um, but it was just, yeah, more mentally challenging. How did you get started doing these kind of things? So I would definitely consider myself more like an accidental adventurer. So I had to take a gym class to get my high school diploma. And through process of elimination, I wanted to find like the easiest A because at that point, I was like a benchwarmer and I didn't really excel in those team sports. So the easy A was a walking running class. And I did the I signed up just like trying to do the bare minimum. And it was during that class where I was like, okay, I'm already forced to be here.

I might as well try to run. And I set that target of running one mile straight. And I never thought I could do that. And so when I did run one mile straight, it was probably equivalent to people who run a marathon, you know, like just feeling like really elated. And that's the seed that planted all the adventures to come. It's really just that one mile and realizing that I was limiting myself by what I thought was possible. And one mile turned into two, two into three. And that was really how I did my first

marathon. And every event was like started from really that place, that one mile. So you were sort of an athletic underachiever or a not interested in athletics person? So in middle school, I, like, like most people did all the sports, all the team sports. And it was, the focus was like, Oh, Hey, let's hang out. Let's make friends. And, and it, my priority was definitely like just hanging out with friends. I didn't have that like competitive sense about it. And, um, once it got too competitive, I kind of checked out because I was like, why are you guys making a big deal about this? Do you know what I mean?

Like when you see it, when like the parents are more invested and you're like, settle down. So when it became stressful and not fun, that's when I checked out and I didn't really have interest in that. And so when it became my own, when it became something that was very internally driven and not anything other than the pure curiosity, I would say that people who do athletic things, like they could be driven by many things. And I would say at the core, one of the driving factors is just like a kid like wonder of like, can I climb a tree? Can I do this? Can I do that? And it's like, I think curiosity is very underrated in that like it could really propel you to see what's possible. And so curiosity time and time again has like brought me to do things that

I never imagined doing. Do you still think back to that first mile, like completing that first mile and that elation, that feeling of elation where you were like, oh my God, like a new door is opened? All the time. Like some of my friends now that like I'm more in ultra running, it's like we'll hear ourselves. I mean, I'm not exempt from this, but saying things like, oh, it's just a mile or just five mile or just a marathon or just whatever you want to adjust it. But like, I still don't feel like I've lost sight of that because, I mean, I know this is kind of harsh, but like sometimes I say to my friends, like, well, tell that to someone who can't walk. Like, it really is worthy of celebrating every step, every mile. And so,

I mean, yeah, I think there's like, it's just one achievement opens the door to other ones. And so, yeah, I definitely don't feel like I've lost that sense. And I think that's important to keep just so, I don't know, it keeps you in that humble state rather than expecting that just because you did it, you can. that just because you did it, you can. Yeah, it really is interesting how people are limited by their own, their previous experiences and what they've sort of established as their boundaries. Yeah. And then you see them expand past those boundaries and then it changes them. Totally.

It changes who you are. I mean, like one of the things that I'll get now is like, oh, I could never run a marathon. And my first thing is like, oh, which ones have you tried? And of course they're like, no, I could never run a marathon. And my first thing is like, oh, which ones have you tried? And of course, they're like, no, I've never tried. And I'm like, well, there you go. You actually have to try. And if you haven't tried, then you really don't know if that's truthful that you can't run a marathon. So yeah, I think we get in our own ways more than anything else. And I'm not saying, like, you know, it was my first mile running was very, like, not graceful. It was, like, basically I was, like, I want to get this over with as fast as possible. So I was completely winded.

I didn't know how to pace myself. winded i didn't know how to pace myself and like um i don't know the whole like reason behind it but it's like you have that metal mouth do you know about that yeah it's like when something i don't do you know the science behind that i don't but it's like there's like a metallic exactly in your mouth yeah it almost tastes and it's because like you're pushing almost like too hard and it's like bursting something in your lungs. But yeah, so clearly. Really? It's bursting something in your lung? I think so.

Maybe it's blood. Yeah. Because blood does have sort of a metallic copper-like taste to it. Anyways, I didn't know how to pace myself because stuff like that would happen and be like, oh, okay. So you went too hard too fast. Yeah. And that's not what endurance is about. No,'s about steady yeah right totally like um yeah like understanding aerobic and anaerobic and like just basically being able to talk the whole time and right so you start off

with this first mile and then you eventually work your way up to all these challenges. Yes, yes. And then eventually you decide, I am going to row across the Atlantic Ocean by myself. Yeah. So, okay, so the row. I was on a bus, right? And I was, like, talking to someone sitting next to me, and we were talking about endurance challenges and I was a stubborn know-it-all 19 year old so of course I was like oh I've heard it all I know people climb

Mount Everest I know people sail around the world I know about all these things and then he mentioned his friend rode across the Atlantic and that was like that just stopped me in my tracks like what like people can do that like I never it was so far beyond anything I ever imagined and I think like with endurance what's so cool about endurance is like at a certain point, everyone's body hurts, right? So what makes endurance like a really cool experience is seeing how the human will and how like determination, how a strong mind, like you, it's a requirement because everyone, no matter how fast or slow you are, is going through that mental wall. or slow you are is going through that mental wall. And so, yeah, I found out about ocean rowing, and I was really captivated not only by that mental component, because if you do a marathon, you go home, you take your shower, you have people cheering you on, but ocean rowing, you're stripped raw of that. And something about that

was intriguing to me because it's like, okay, how can you dig deep internally when you don't have the finish line, whatever, party and the swag and the people and the nice cozy bed. And I just kind of, I liked that idea of like being so stripped raw that you have to dig deeper than you ever would if you didn't have all those other externals. So yeah, I found out about it on a bus. I went home and went and Googled everything I could about ocean rowing. And it was at a time where I did my first ultra marathon. So it was like 100 kilometer run, or 62 miles. And it was again, one of those moments where I was like, I never thought I could do that. And my body proved otherwise. So what are all the other things that I'm saying? can't do, but maybe I can? So it was really that information at that particular time where I was like really open to the idea of, wow, maybe it is possible.

But it was a matter of like researching everything. It wasn't like, oh, I got to do this. like oh I got to do this it was oh I got to find out everything because I mean if someone told you someone rode across the Atlantic wouldn't the first thing be like is that really true like so I mean that was the first place I look like are people legitimately doing that. How much time was it between you finding out about it and you actually doing it? Two years. That's not that long. No did what kind of training did you do um so like physical training like compared to doing like i've trained for like iron mans and then trained for adventures like physical purely physical to like these more adventure type things. And like training for an Ironman, 90% is like what

you're doing in the gym. For ocean rowing and for like the more adventure type athletic pursuits, I would say that like 90% was like the logistics. Like you could be the most fit person in the world, but if you don't have a boat what does it matter like so I spent most of my time just like sorting out through all the logistics the sponsorship getting the gear training with the gear but um yeah like my training priorities for rowing and ocean were injury prevention so I did a lot with like strengthening my core and my lower back. And then on the weekends is when I would do like a six to eight hour row, training row, just to get more to get used to the boat and the equipment more than anything else. And you would go on a lake?

Lake Erie. Lake Erie. Yes. Now, how fast do you go on this boat? Like maybe I would go like 30 miles a day no no how fast like per hour uh three two or three miles two or three miles per hour so basically like the speed of walking yeah so um my boat was a 19 foot rowboat it was like 400 pounds but once it was fully loaded it was a thousand pounds so it did have like a sliding seat yes okay so um i i had a sliding seat so that meant that like my legs and

my back were the main source of like power but um i think the best like you mean a sliding seat like a rowing machine exactly so like so that helps you it means that like the power was coming from the most powerful parts of my body not my arms so some people assume like oh it's just your upper body it's just your arms but in fact it's more your legs and back but um so this thing's going two or three miles an hour correct and how many miles is the atlantic ocean how many miles yeah three thousand so oh my god don't think about it just don't even think about it oh my god that's so far that's so far it was the worst reaching the halfway point just because like how long did it take you the whole trip 70 days 70 days that's not that bad when you think about it how far you

went yeah i would say so yeah i i anticipated it would be 70 or 100 days oh my god that's a big gap. I had 30 days of extra food. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Was anybody monitoring you? I had like a tracker so people could like look online and see where I was. But there wasn't like a follow boat or anything like that. Oof. What were those nights like?

It was pretty amazing. Yeah. So, of course, the stars were amazing, like shooting stars and just like, yeah, breathtaking. And then what surprised me, like I thought it was like, wait, is this real? Am I hallucinating? But I think the most stunning part was actually looking in the water because they had like this type of glowing plankton so it was like a phosphorescence so sometimes I would see things glowing in the distance and then all around my boat anytime my oar hit the water like I would see all of that and yeah like I was so busy planning the trip and the logistics that I didn't know like what wildlife I'd see and

so that was definitely like a pleasant surprise to see that must have been really crazy yeah have you ever seen no no I've seen it on video so you can find a video of it um what is it called it's bioluminescence but there are like Puerto Rico is probably the closest place to here that has really good bioluminescence too. Like, yeah. So that, it really looked like that? Yeah, around my boat, yes. That's amazing. Very trippy.

That is so wild. Yeah. So I could put my hand in the water and. Did you take any photos or film it? I did have some film film and uh yeah this sometimes i no like you can't really take good i mean yeah i didn't have really good bioluminescence photos um look at that shore that's Now, you said the stars. Stars were amazing, yes.

Like how amazing? I mean. There's no light pollution at all, right? Yeah. I mean, in some ways it felt like I was just like living this national geographic experience of like, you know, I had dolphins come right up to my boat. I had. Yeah. Yeah.

Like I think it was right up to my boat. I had. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think it was like the fourth way, Mark. I was like, I want to celebrate. And my way of celebrating was very limited. It was like, oh, am I going to have two Snickers bars? Like, there's not really anything other than what I had. But this pod of dolphins surrounded my boat and were doing doing like flips and tricks and like right at that moment that I was reaching it. So yeah, the, the dolphins and sharks and birds. And, um, I even had like fish following right underneath my boat, like because barnacles would grow. It was like I on, on the side of my boat I would um scrub them

off but sometimes they would just keep following my boat so every time I I named them Ed, Edd, and Eddie but I had like three girattos that would keep following and birds that came on my boat and wow yeah I didn't think that there would be that many birds out there. Yeah, how are they getting out there? I don't know. I didn't ask. I think some birds can actually fly right across the ocean, which is pretty amazing. So the dorado, that's a dolphin fish, right? They were hanging out under your boat?

Those are delicious. That's a mahi-mahi. Yep. And then I had a lot of flying fish that was another unexpected thing like to constantly be hit by them oh really especially like morning and and like yeah did they ever wind up inside your boat oh yeah yeah and i would wake up just because they would fly into the cabin and like yeah flying fish wow have you seen flying fish yeah yeah i've seen them in the wild it's kind of cool it's really cool what did you eat uh so um everything had to be light just

because i was pushing it so i had like freeze-dried meals um which aren't like the MREs that have liquid in it. So I had a desalinator, so I would convert the salt water into drinking water. Really? Yeah, which is crazy because I was doing that journey to raise money for clean water, and yet I had a better source of water than a billion people. So that was just like, yeah. This desalinator, I did not know that they had a portable desalinator that's that small. It was, so I had the main desalinator, which works by reverse osmosis. And there were two solar panels that powered all the electronics.

And I had a handheld one, which fortunately I didn't have to use that, but that would take two hours to pump the water that I'd need. For the whole day? Correct. And then as my third option, I did also have ballast water that I could refill with salt water. So it would help maintain the self-righting capability because that was another thing. This rowboat wasn't like something you get in Dick's Sporting Good. It was like self-righting capability because that was another thing. This rowboat wasn't like something you get in Dick's Sporting Good. It was like self-righting. So that meant that even if I had big waves, that it could flip and it would flip back over again because of the design of the boat. And then the ballast water helped with that self-righting capability.

So your ballast water was fresh water just in case of a chance that you needed water, you can get that and replace it with salt water. And then like the last week of my journey, I started just using the ballast water because it was easier and I knew I was about to finish. When you say you replace it with salt water, did you have containers that you would take the ballast water out and put it into some sort of a drinkable container? Yes. And then, because you would have to get it all out and then put the salt water you can't mix it right correct so i had my own like water containers but they were

in these like i think it was like a platypus type water containers so yeah so who planned this stuff out for you as far as like the construction of the boat and the ballast water and all that jazz did you have to design all this yourself or so i was fortunate because i was able to buy it used so there was another quit no but he he made it his name's paul ridley and he did it a year before me. Oh, so he actually did it. He made it, yeah. How many people have done it? I mean, I don't know. I know there's more people that have been to the moon.

Really? There's not a lot of Americans. Most of the ocean rowers are from, like, the U.K., but for solos, I don't know a few hundred wow yeah so the only other a few hundred people have been to the moon 450 to the moon no in space oh yeah I know there's not a lot. It's a small handful that have been to the moon. Allegedly. Are you next? No.

Now, when you're getting this from this guy who's done it, did he look at you and go, Katie, don't do it? I think he was so excited to have someone lined up to buy it because there's not many people who want to buy it. Imagine you put that on eBay. Hey, who wants to go across the fucking ocean by yourself? I did it. Want to buy my boat?

You'd have to be a fan of his maybe. Would you ever row across an ocean? No, I would not, Katie. Are you sure? Thank you for asking. No, I don't have that kind of time. Oh, but there's like, you have your whole life in front of you No?

What's one thing that you do want to do before Like you know That's not appealing to me People like you are appealing to me People that do things like that You're very appealing I like talking to you I don't want to do it

I get it I know it's got to be mind-bending and very, very difficult. I'm very aware of that. That's an enormous amount of time. 70 days. I have three jobs. Yeah? I have no desire to take 70 days off of any of them.

Okay. All right. But I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I guess it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess that makes sense. But you, you're interesting because when you said that to me, would you do it? And all of a sudden you're like probing.

You're like looking into my brain. You wanted to see what's going on in my soul. I could tell. You're like, would you do it? Maybe you're a quitter. No, it's just like. Maybe you wouldn't do it because you don't have the courage. That is definitely not true because most people who do want to do these things, do you know what the limiting factor is?

What? The perceived limiting factor because there's always a way or there's always a limit, right? So money can be a limiting factor for a lot of adventurous things. Sure. And I hope that when people see some of the things I've done, they are encouraged to know you can do things on a shoestring. You don't have to, you know, but that's just, yeah. But it's also taking 70 days off work.

Yeah. That's very difficult for a lot of people to pull off. That's true. It's hard it's also taking 70 days off work. Yeah. That's very difficult for a lot of people to pull off. That's true. It's hard for people to get a week off work. Yeah, yeah. But you could look at it a different way. How old are you, Katie? 33.

How old were you when you did it? 22. So when you were young, what were you doing for a job when you did this? So I just graduated from college, and I was working for a nonprofit for a year beforehand. So I was planning this during my senior year. So did you stack some money aside? So there's no way I would have been able to do it without sponsors. So there were some Cleveland companies that were able to partner up.

Cleveland companies that were able to partner up. And the purpose behind it, there's definitely a purpose behind why I do what I do, and that's always been water. And so there were also some companies that shared the vision and passion that everyone on our planet should have clean water, and there's ways to do that. So, yeah. We do some work with Fight for the Forgotten. It's my friend Justin Wren's organization. Do you know where they are?

They build wells for the pygmies. Yep, yep. Yeah, he's a pretty amazing guy. He's been going over there for years and he spends months every year over there in Africa building wells. And he's immeasurably helped the lives of countless people over there. Yeah, it's amazing. It's just something that we just take for granted. Like, here, water.

It's right there on the table. You might drink it. You might not. We might throw it in the sink. Yeah, yeah. Delicious water. I mean, that is one thing that is very universal. It's crazy that some people don't even drink it.

You know John Daly, the golfer? I was watching an interview. You know who he is? I don't golf, but he's a famous golfer, famous for being a guy who just gets hammered all the time. He smokes cigarettes, but he's a really good golfer. Just a big, fat guy who doesn't take care of himself. But he does not drink any water at all.

And they did an interview with him, and they said, how much Diet Coke do you drink a day? And he said somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 large Diet Cokes a day. So he goes to McDonald's and he gets those extra large things of Diet Coke. He says McDonald's has the best fountain drinks. But he says he hates water. He doesn't drink any water.

I'm like, wow. If you're thirsty, what is it? It's 26 to 28 cans of Diet Coke a day. Now I have 10 to 12 at most. I only smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, not three, so I'll be all right. 17 terrible pieces of health advice from John Daly. He's quite a character. Like, what about his teeth?

His teeth can't be good. Oh, well, I don't know. It's a good question. Look, he's out there with a cigarette in his mouth. Look at his stomach. Dentist. 1991 to 2017. He's fat now, but still a really good golfer.

Golf is such a strange game. You can make a living as an athlete and not even be remotely athletic or in shape or even healthy. You just have to be able to do a few moves. Yeah, there's some sports you can get away with. Not rowing across the ocean, Katie. Yeah, well. How many cigarettes did you smoke while you were rowing across the ocean? I definitely did not smoke any cigarettes.

But water. So water is, that's what you were doing it for. You were doing it to raise money. Correct, yep. What's the organization? Right now I'm working with an organization called H2O for Life. And they partner with schools here in the United States to help schools get clean water all around the world. And what's also really cool about them is they

create service learning opportunities for schools here. And I think that, you know, sometimes when I'm involved with clean water, it's like, well, what are you doing here? And H2O for Life does do things here to help kids feel part of something bigger, to help kids develop empathy and concern and care for other people. So I think what they do is pretty unique in that they can both help others outside the United States and both help fill that need for kids here to feel part of something. So the row raised $150,000 for water projects. And then through all the different adventures, it's been about $400,000. That's awesome. Yeah, it is really cool to see the impact. And I keep tabs on that the different projects and um right now it's 20,000

people that have gotten clean water through adventures and um yeah i mean it really doesn't take much to help with clean water and um i i you could support, I mean, there's so many great causes to get behind. Um, what's also encouraging about clean water is there are solutions. It's not this unknown. It's not this, um, we're putting money into research to figure out if it will work. There are, um, wells, boreholes, rainwater harvesting. There's so many different solutions tailored to the communities that work. So what made it, like when you were thinking about doing this, what made clean water, what made that the thing that you chose to have as your main charitable organization? So I was living in Australia and they were experiencing a pretty significant drought. And Australia is very developed.

And to see the major headlines, to see the rules like, oh, you can't water your grass right now. You can't wash your car right now. And just to see that happening in somewhere so developed, it had it in the back of my mind, like, wow, water isn't something that should be taken for granted. And it isn't just this unlimited resource. And so I was studying environmental science. And I remember one of my professors mentioned that the wars of the future would be on water. And in some countries, it's already the case. And to me, that the wars of the future would be on water like and and in some

countries it's already the case and to me that was kind of like that one sentence that I couldn't unlearn I couldn't stop thinking about and it just hit me at at a core of like that is so wrong and I yeah I was 19 or 20 and um at that point, I felt like I had like a little bit because of traveling, like I had a little bit of a sense of what was going on in the world. But to know at that point, one in six people didn't have clean water. I was like, wow, I didn't even know about one sixth of our planet and what their daily struggle is and like the fact that it's a problem that has a solution and it's something that like i don't know what cause could have as big as an impact as water because you think like okay if you what what can you live without? You can't even survive three days without water. And just like thinking about health, half of the hospital beds are filled because of unsafe drinking water. If you think about environment, if you think about education. Half of the hospital beds in the world?

Is that what you mean? Yeah. Really? Half? Yeah. hospital beds in the world is that what you mean yeah and like half yeah like um the for children in the world the greatest killer is diarrhea diarrheal disease and that is because of unsafe drinking water and that is like i there's this documentary that came out recently well within the last year called i think it's brave blue Blue World. And Matt Damon shared something at the beginning about like, imagine that right now we find the

cure for all childhood cancers. And then imagine in 50 years from now, these kids are still dying from this very cancer that we have a cure for. And that is what's happening with clean water. And I mean, if you, it just, I don't know, it still boils my blood just like thinking about like how wrong it is. And when you see how wrong it is, I mean, I feel like, of course, I would want to support that and do something. And like, when I first started learning about it, the first water project I was able to fund was in Haiti,

and I was learning about how some places they don't even give their kids a name until they're five years old because, okay, so who is affected by the water crisis? Women and children. Children, their bodies aren't strong enough to withstand and to fight back all the bacteria and viruses and all the things. Yeah, exactly. So so they won't even give their kids names until they they think they'll be able to live. Right. until they think they'll be able to live, right? So, like, just thinking about that is, like, these are real people. Like, these are, I don't know.

They're real people today. Yeah, exactly. This is not real people 5,000 years ago. No, and, like, just the idea of not even giving your child a name because of that fear of, like, they might not even live, so you don't even want to get, like. My friend Lex, Lex Friedman, he's a scientist that works with artificial intelligence. He posted something on his Instagram yesterday. It's a crazy statistic about children and infant mortality from I believe it was 200 years ago.

Look at this. In 1800, 43% died before the age of five. Today it's 4%. Just imagine that. And that was all over the world. 43%. But that's not the case everywhere. Obviously.

If you're not naming your kids, that's probably where the gap is because it's not 5% of American children die before that age. Yeah. So, yeah, water has always been something that has given me hope just seeing that there's definitely real changes possible. It also seems like it's financially possible. You're not talking about giving everybody diamonds. Correct. I mean, with these water projects, it's not just clean water.

That's the pretty part. But they also need latrines. And so most of these charities that are working to solve the water crisis are not just doing water, they're doing sanitation and hygiene education. So on average, it's like about, I mean, it depends, like rainwater harvesting is a lot cheaper than building wells. And so, but on average, it's like $50 for one person to get clean water. So yeah. For their life? Depending.

Like, it's hard to. $50? At least 10 years, though, for most of the water projects. God, that seems like a hurdle that's so easy to get over. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean.

There's just not a financial incentive for people to do it. That's what it is. Yeah. So, I mean, there's just not a financial incentive for people to do it. That's what it is. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like it's not because there's a lack like the solution is there. It's just like the motivation to, you know, put resources and energy towards it. very encouraged just seeing how many people have been supportive and and um yeah i mean just it's yeah you could say like i raised this much but truthfully it's i witnessed the generosity of others who believed in in a similar thing that that i did when you say that obviously children but why why are women more affected by it than men? Because it's their responsibility to go and collect the water. So on average, it's like four miles every single day that they have to go. And it's not just the fact that it's

a long walk, but when you're coming back, you're carrying the jerry cans, which could be 40 pounds. It could also be dangerous. They could be attacked. There could be wild animals. So they are the ones who are responsible for collecting it. And the men are out hunting or something? If there aren't any latrines, like once they hit puberty and they're having their menstrual cycle, they will just not go to school anymore because they don't have a way to take care of themselves. So women and children are definitely the ones who are affected the most. Well, all in all, it's poor people. And this organization has been around for how long doing this? H2O for Life, over a decade. Yeah. So they have partners in the field building all the different projects. And there's been maybe 40 or 50 projects that were funded through all the different adventures.

And then I have been able to visit some of them in Kenya and South Africa after the fact, after the projects were built. And, yeah. Now, how do you get connected with them and how does it work? Do your sponsors pay X amount per what happens when you complete this? How does that work? So for the row, there were corporate sponsors that helped pay for the cost of the event. And then I did things like sponsor a mile. Sometimes I'll do work with Rotary with rotary clubs they've been super supportive and a good partner on hosting different events i don't even know what a rotary club is but i know

that word okay so there's 30 000 rotary clubs all around the world what's a rotary club uh my dad used to be in one but i it's like a group of guys that meets and hangs it doesn't have to be guys group of people that meets have lunch talk about doesn't have to be guys. A group of people that meets, have lunch, talk about business sort of stuff. That's what it is. Because it's one of those things. In a neighborhood sort of like community. Until this moment in my life, I've never even thought what's a Rotary Club. Yeah.

Oh, well, let me tell you. I know the name. Yeah, she knows more probably than me. So Rotary Clubs, you probably have seen their signs like, oh, we're meeting every Tuesday at 8. their signs like, oh, we're meeting every Tuesday at eight. So it's usually like leaders in the community get together once a week and they do local and global service projects. So it's a service organization. So there's your local one, then there's districts and then they meet for like global conferences. But basically, yeah their their focus is how can we make our community better local and locally and globally and so we've partnered on different like

fundraisers and um and then so so there's partnering with schools partnering with rotary clubs and then part of like whenever i do speaking i do it in return for donations to the cause. And then finally, some corporate sponsors will do like a matching fund challenge. So whatever other individuals raise, they'll match that. So it's definitely like seeing who's interested and who's also passionate about it. But there's definitely never been like this is how it's always been. Like it's kind of working with what interests of others that, yeah, also want to do something. So you had a series of sponsors

and you have a series of sponsors for all your adventures. Usually, yes. Yeah, like some of my smaller adventures were more like on a shoestring. But how do you go about acquiring these sponsors? So a lot like because especially for my first adventures, I didn't that wasn't my network. um i didn't that wasn't my network um it was a lot of like cold cold calling and just looking for companies that i thought would also um share that the the same vision but uh yeah it really just like sending emails or asking to set up meetings but um So you do it all yourself?

I do, but of course, like, no one ever does anything by themselves. Like, everyone's always supported. Sure, sure. But, no, I don't have, like, an agent or anything like that. Seems like you should. I mean, maybe. I don't know. But it seems like these things that you're doing, especially the rowing across the ocean, it's pretty high profile, right? It feels like someone can get involved and sort of boost your

signal. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, I'm open. I don't know. Are you going to do something else crazy? I definitely feel called to do like, so with ocean rowing, most people go from like one island to another because you're right within the trade winds. So it takes about 100 miles offshore until you're right in those trade winds. And so I was very intentional about the row and going mainland to mainland. And the reason behind that is just because I've always thought it would be so cool to go around the whole world by human power. And when that idea came or whatever, I basically said, okay, so what's the hardest part? What's the part you're most likely to fail? And if you're going around the whole world, the row is the part that you're most likely to fail.

Half of the people do. And it's the most expensive. And I would never want to go on this around the world trip and then fail at the last like leg, you know. And so that that was always like the original vision of just like going completely around the world by human power. And I think realistically, it would be done in legs. So I would like to do the next leg, which would be cycling from where I landed in South America. So I landed in Georgetown, Guyana, and then cycling from South America to North America. And that would take probably about a year. But yeah, so that was always like something, but it's not. The reason I haven't done it is because

I have a lot of other things that I've done and am doing that I'm, I'm interested in. And I always thought like a journey like that is something that you could do much older and like, um, because like there's a certain kind of fitness you need for an iron man versus cycle touring you really like not racing correct and like I kind of wanted my 20s to be more racing and more pushing like I really enjoyed doing iron man after iron man after Ironman and just like feeling fast. And like, the more I do endurance, the I'm losing that speed. And so it's kind of like a balance. And so I yeah, I think the around the world trip certainly would be something I'd love to explore doing. I am also aware that like for endurance being in my 30s is probably the best for recovery. So although I think people could cycle around the world in their 60s

and 70s, I think I would enjoy it more now just because of that ability to recover and like sleeping in a tent and dealing with all like the climate and just kind of living wild like that. But yeah, yeah, that would be one of the like challenges that I could see pursuing and probably in legs rather than just doing the whole thing because it would be like three years. Now, when you think about doing something like that, do you get concerned about your safety? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like I, of course, like I, I don't do these things because I don't like have concern. I definitely was concerned about the ocean. And I think that's why I spent so much time like researching it and asking all those questions and looking at what were the backups. And I definitely took it very seriously and took those risks very seriously.

But I don't know. Did you encounter any hairy moments while you were out there? Yeah. I had like 30 foot waves at. Holy shit. Yes. But. 30 feet is a lot.

Yes, it is. What's this roof? Maybe 10. 10? Yeah. Maybe. 10. Okay, three times the size of this roof.

But let me... Fuck that. Okay, but here's the thing about that. You're in a little rowboat. 30 foot waves is crazy. These boats are designed for it. So it's kind of like, what's the point of having this fancy boat if you don't get to see the full possibilities and capabilities of it?

You're kind of crazy. I could have been in a rinky-dink kayak at that point if I didn't. So when you row an ocean you're not like hey what's hurricane season let's go like I wasn't out there when so I worked with a weather guy and we knew that it could be like that so I had a backup like place so so here's what happened I was about to land I had these big waves and then I was like you're about to land so is it the end correct and it's known because it's like the continental shelf so it jumps from being thousands of feet deep to to pretty shallow so it's known to have

these like waves and winds and it's just known for that kind of thing. So I had an option of landing there, but I would need a boat to tow me in because I could crash into cliffs or crash into something because it's so impossible to be precise when you have those big waves. So that's kind of that's where the detour happened. So I ended up two countries west of my original destination because I didn't want to tow. Like, how terrible would that be? That would have sucked. Yeah. Like, oh, here I did it. If you did have to get towed, would you go back and do it again?

You might have to, right? I don't know. I don't even want to think about that. Like, so that's, yeah. I mean, that's not solo. You got that. No. Yeah. See, I mean, that's not solo. You got that? No. Yeah.

Yeah, see, I think you'd do it again. Or I would just go from where they pick me up. That seems lame. I know, but. Says me, a guy who's not even willing to go across a lake. Don't listen to me. Maybe someday. You never know.

Maybe not. How about that? Okay. How many Iron Men have you done? Five. Does it bother you it's an Iron Man, not an Iron Person? No, it doesn't. Why is it Iron Man if you're doing it?

I don't know. It seems weird. You should ask them. I don't know. It seems kind of weird. Yeah. And I'm not even one of those people. Yeah.

You know, that complains about that kind of shit. But why does it have to be Iron Man if, like, all sexes can do it? I don't know, but, like. What if you're non-binary? I don't know. What if you're asexual? I don't know. What if you're, like, a zur?

And you're, like, I'm just an iron thing. I'm an iron they. Why don't they just call it iron they? No. Doesn't sound good. it's a problem right if you're a woman like if i was a guy and i was competing in an iron woman championship i'm like yeah i took third place in iron woman they'd be like why are you in a woman's contest well it's open for everybody they just call it iron woman what the fuck is that yeah i don't know right wouldn't you i don't know. Right? Wouldn't you? Now that you're thinking about it.

Someone should start attacking them on Twitter and they would change their name. It's possible. Well, they're changing so many names because of social justice warriors attacking people. There was a recent one that they're changing the word man. They're taking the word man out of something. God damn it.

I forget what it is. I mean, what would we have to call it so we would call it? It's not Iron Man. Iron Human. Oh, okay. What's wrong with Iron Human? That has man in it, too, by the way. Because it doesn't sound.

As good? No. Why? It sounds dope. I like it it better it's not as punchy oh iron man's more punchy i don't know like sometimes when things are shorter i get it i get it yeah still i mean there's things in this world that are definitely worth changing and i would like to focus on water but if you want to take that one up i'll i'll focus on water you focus on that row across the ocean to get rid of the name of iron man change it to iron human no oh just saying yeah how many have you done five wow you know they make them longer too there's like they like like, they, like, make them, I think, three times as long.

Oh, really? Yeah, that's a thing. That's ridiculous. Yeah, I, the longest I've, like, biked once was, like, 375 miles in 24 hours. Woo! And the longest I've run is 138, and I think that's it. Like, I don't think I would like to go any further. My buddy Cam, he does a lot of them, Cam Haynes,

he's done the Moab 240 and the Bigfoot, whatever it is, Bigfoot 2, it's like 205 or something like that. Yeah. The Moab 240 is a three-day jam. Yeah. And they're trying to do something even crazier. Yeah, they, I believe it. Wow.

I mean, I have seen, like, 200 is the new 100. Yeah, these people are out of it. Wow. I mean, I have seen like 200 is the new 100. Yeah, these people are out of their fucking minds. I mean. He's got his son doing it now. Yeah, he's crazy. Son Truitt. I think Truitt's like, he's in his early 20s. He's the kid that broke Goggins' chin-up record.

Oh, really? Yeah, his son's a savage too. Was Goggins mad? No, he loves it. Is he Yeah. Was he mad about that? His son's a savage, too. Was Goggins mad? No, he loves it. Is he going to try to break it again? I'm sure he'll break it. Who broke his? Yeah, he has to.

I think another guy holds, Goggins held the world record, and then Truett broke Goggins' record, but I don't believe that was the world record anymore. I think there was another guy who broke the world record. Gotcha. Yeah. So it's like a little hot potato. It's an insane amount of chin-ups. It's like thousands of chin-ups.

54-year-old Mark Jordan. Oh, Jesus. He's older than me. 4,210. Let me see what this savage looks like. That's insane. Jesus Christ, look at the build on that man. See, that's an even bigger problem, right? Because that guy has to carry all that weight.

He's heavier. Because when you look at Goggins or Truett, they're smaller guys. Like, Goggins is, is that Truett there? I think so. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know if that's Truett. No, it's not.

No, this is 2017. Okay. So. I was supposed to pull up some one minute. Sorry. These savages keep breaking it. Yeah. I think what's impressive. Jack, though. That's what's nuts. Howups in one minute. These savages keep breaking it. I think what's impressive.

That guy's jacked, though. That's what's nuts. How thick that dude is. 4,300, actually, it says. That's so much. 4,321 in 24 hours. That's so much. Oh, my goodness.

That is so much. Texas, man. Yeah. Corpus Christi. Mark Jordan. Shout out to Mark. Yeah, usually they're not that muscular because he's carrying around. I'm sure he's got muscular legs too, carrying around a lot of weight.

It's easier for slimmer people to do chin-ups. I have a question. Okay. So since you, like, meet all these people that do fit things, who is a person that you've met or a record that you admire or, I don't know, the coolest? The coolest? The coolest human feat. The person who you have the most respect for doing.

I don't know. Maybe you, Katie. No. Might be. No, can't be. Why? Because there's so many cool things. What you did Katie. No. Might be. No, can't be. Why? Because there's so many cool things. What you did is pretty cool.

By yourself, alone in the ocean, for fucking days and days and days and days and days and days and days with phospholuminescent water and the stars and dolphins are playing with you. What you did is pretty fucking cool. Well, thank you. Pretty cool. You know? That's up there. Okay, but what's, you know?

Eddie Izzard impressed me the most because what he did, he had zero training, and he wasn't in shape, and he's a comedian. He just did it on pure will and he he's done multiple ones of these but i shouldn't say he anymore because now he wants to be called a she she i'll just call him her eddie eddie ran the entire length around the uk wow yeah and but with zero training and they documented it in a documentary i mean eddie's feet were falling off i mean the skin was just completely removed and it was it's horrific to watch when you see like them trying to tape up the toes and deal with all the blisters and then

running the next day eddie's out there huffing it. I mean, but not in shape. Not like a person like you or like Cam Haynes or David Goggins, a person that is just through sheer will decides they're going to run around the entire length of the U.K. and do it all for charity. And then since then, Eddie's done, she's run through Africa and did a recent one where they were doing it on Zoom. That one was on a treadmill and did, what was it, like 26 marathons? 31 and 32 days? Yeah, something crazy.

Like that, 32 and 32 days? That's pretty damn impressive because Eddie's not an athlete per se. Hmm. It sounds like he or she sounds pretty athletic. Yeah, she used to be called he. It's confusing because she still likes girls. Or as Hedy says, fancies the ladies. But whatever.

When you're that badass, I don't give a fuck what you call yourself or who you are. I'll say whatever you want. What was the distance for the UK run? That's a good question. Totally more than 1,100 miles. 43 marathons in 51 days. 27 miles a day at least. You've got to understand that this is not an in-shape person.

I'm surprised that there was an injury to stop that i think like injury is definitely one of the biggest like you know challenges oh yeah for sure how old was eddie at the time it was in 2009 so a little bit younger. 40? Let me see if it says on the thing. Probably 40. Not young. Only trained for five weeks right before it.

And then. That's really. It's not saying. I'll check something else. Sorry. Like usually you taper two or three weeks. So that's like. No, it's nuts. Yeah, that's nuts.

And if you watch the documentary, you just see it's just sheer will. Yeah. He was 47 at the time you could say he was 47 time because he was he then 47 year old actor was 47 at the time That's not young It's super impressive. That's probably the most impressive thing. Yeah I'd be curious there's just because of that because I know like, like, my friend Cam Haynes, he runs every day. He's in great shape. He just ran 100 miles like it was nothing.

Just did it, like, last weekend, the 100-mile race. And he doesn't even tell anybody. He just goes and does them because he does it so much. He runs, literally, when he prepares for these things, he runs a marathon a day. Every day. But so him doing that, not as not as impressive as eddie doing it just because eddie's not in shape yeah that makes sense i mean like even in iron man's like of course there's these people who finish in eight nine hours but sometimes the most impressive

thing like one of the races i did my friends and i we stayed until the last person came and this person was out there for 17 hours like and they made it just within like 20 more seconds to go. And like, yeah, it's almost just as inspiring, if not more, to see that person who's just barely made it than the one who's just like, oh, I could do that again. But there's not one person that's the most impressive. There's a lot of – one of the more interesting things about doing a podcast is that you can talk to people from all walks of life. And so my understanding of human beings is very broad in a sense that like, oh, I met someone like her. Oh, I know a person like that yeah oh that guy yeah that's like this person like there's if you just live in the same place

and communicate with the same people and you don't get out you don't travel and you don't meet really unique and interesting people you have an idea you have a little box that you look to put human beings in. My box is enormous. So what I think of what's possible with people is enormous. Yeah. You know, so it's made me very, very open minded in terms of what's possible, terms of just the different kinds of people, different styles of human being, because that's kind of what it's like. There's different styles of human being, different ways that people talk, different ways people protect themselves with their speech and with their manner of talking. They shield themselves. And then other people that are just wide open. Some people that really, because they're really good at one thing, they think they know it all about everything. That's an unusual thing. What's that called?

Dunning-Kruger effect. But then there's other people that are- What does that mean? I think it means when you have an expertise in one subject, you grossly overestimate your understanding of other subjects. Let's see if we can find the definition of that. I've never heard that. You've never heard that?

It's a commonly used phrase Because it's very common Amongst really brilliant people unfortunately There's brilliant people That dismiss other disciplines And other works And other fields of interest Because

It's not inside of the Here it is. It's a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. Oh, psychological bias? Yeah, it would be an amateur chess player overestimating their performance in the upcoming chess tournament compared to their competent counterparts. Hmm, I think I fucked that up then.

Because I thought that it had to do with someone being really good at something else. And that's why the Dunning-Kruger effect takes into position. That's how I've always thought of it. So the way I'm looking at it, I'm looking at the Dunning-Kruger effect based on people that are good at other things. Dunning-Kruger effect based on people that are good at other things. And so like usually like maybe someone is a great mathematician, but they have a kind of funky view about religion. Or maybe there's someone who is a brilliant psychologist, but they maybe have a dismissive view of martial arts or people that practice it. I know people that are into athletics and they're athletic trainers and they dismiss

yoga. They have zero experience in yoga. And I've had arguments with people about that, like guys who are like professional trainers that train elite athletes and they dismiss yoga. What do they have against yoga? It's not that they have anything against it. It's that they dismiss yoga what do they have against yoga it's not that they have anything against it it's that they don't understand what they're talking about because they believe that because they're so good at this one thing maybe plyometrics explosive training that you talk to them about yoga and they'll be dismissive of them like well how often are you doing it you know like listen i've done a lot of shit yoga's hard it's good it's i don't think it's the only thing you should do yeah you know yeah i talked to this one lady she uh used to go to my

yoga class and she was in her 50s and she was fucking shredded she had like this crazy six back and super jacked and i go you don't just do yoga and she goes no no no i do a lot of weightlifting and i do a lot of crossfit and stuff like that. She goes, I don't think you should just do yoga. She goes, but I think you should do yoga. Yeah, for sure. And I was like, yeah, I kind of agree. Because I think just doing yoga, you get one of them weird guru bodies. You're real bendy, but it doesn't seem like you can help anybody move a couch.

Yeah. I think weightlifting is, especially as you get older, I think it's imperative. I really think it's important. Some sort of resistance training just to keep your bone density and keep your muscles and tendons strong. But yoga has some profound mental benefits. For sure. Some psychological benefits. Yeah.

And it's hard. It's fucking hard. I like to do hot yoga too. It's fucking hard. Like holding on to those – I like to do hot yoga too. So holding on to those poses when it's 105 degrees and you're watching sweat pour off of you and your heart is pounding out of your chest. Yes, but sometimes when you do those hot yoga classes, you would be sweating if you were just sitting there. So I think sometimes – you know what I mean? Like it is hard, but if you were sitting there there you probably would be sweating too so it could be

well that's because it's harder when it's hot exactly because it makes your body produce heat shock proteins which makes it better the idea see this is where another thing that people get screwed up they say oh no it's not that hard it just seems hard because it's hot. No, no, no. It's fucking hard. And it's harder because it's hot. So your body has to work harder. It feels harder because it is. Because it's more difficult for your body. So because it's more difficult for your body, your body has to produce these cytokines. And that is massive.

It's massive for inflammation benefits. And there's actually a study they're doing at Harvard right now about hot yoga. And they're trying to find out if hot yoga has similar benefits to that. Was it Finland that did that yoga study, that sauna study? I keep fucking it up. I always say Norway. I think we corrected it to Finland, yes. Finland, right?

Yeah. There's a study that they did out of Finland that showed a 40% decrease in all cause mortality for people that did sauna. I think it's at 170 degrees, 20 minutes, four times a week. 40% decrease of all cause mortality, heart attack, stroke, cancer, everything across the board because of the heat shock protein benefit, because of the fact that your body is kind of freaking out because of the heat. So it produces those cytokines and that has massive benefits for your health and psychological benefits. So one of the coaches I worked with for Ironman, like I used to do hot yoga a lot and he, his concern for me in doing that on top of iron man training was just like okay so you are already so dehydrated like hydration is already so hard with training whatever 20 hours

of sweating by running and biking and swimming so that that's the only thing that i've heard like i don't know have you heard anything about that like you definitely can get dehydrated if you don't plan accordingly but what you really need is an electrolyte supplement yes so i i do i use liquid iv i just take i i'll do two of those in a day is genuine generally what i do because i work out a lot but when i do the sauna i do one after the sauna um if but if i do a hot yoga class i'll do it before the yoga class so I'll do like an hour before the yoga class I'll drink 32 ounces of water with liquid IV

the only problem is having to pee that's the problem we talked about that before the podcast you drink a lot of water my daughter, my 10 year old has decided to drink massive amounts of water now so she has this jug it is so big it's huge huge. And she was laughing.

And I go, why are you doing this? And she goes, well, water is really good for you. And I just want to see if I can drink this every day. And I go, well, you definitely can drink it every day. So I go, how many times do you have to pee at class? She goes, oh, every class. I have to get up and pee multiple times and she's laughing i go multiple times during class i go what do you teachers think about this she goes they laugh they think it's funny because they know that i have this giant jug of water on my table i'm like okay she might be going over hydration hyponatremia like that no she's not doing that because she's doing it through the entire day but that is a danger but that's when

you're forcing water into your body i mean right people have died from that i've had hyponatremia did you really uh biking across america wow yeah uh it was i mean yeah i i've had like I mean if you do endurance stuff of course some things happen like I've had uh rhabdo I've had when you had rhabdo would they have to rhabdomyelosis would you have to do to fix that so that was the thing like I this is gonna sound so stupid but I was like but I don't feel like it like and I've had like internal bleeding I was like I don't feel anything like so what they they just give you IV and that I was yeah that was just drink water uh they gave me like two liters of IV and that's it that was all and then yeah I I think I was just monitoring and rapdo is your muscles start to break down.

Yeah. So, yeah, whenever you're working out, you're ideally breaking down your muscles because that's how they grow stronger. So from my understanding, I mean, I'm not like, you know, this. Yeah. is that it's like when your muscles are breaking down, it's in your bloodstream, and your kidneys are trying really hard to filter it out, filter out. And if there's so much breakdown, it's beyond your kidneys' ability to filter, filter, filter, so it could cause kidney failure. So it's clogging your pipes, basically.

Yeah, so like, yeah, I know that like the stuff I do, no doctor would be like, yeah, that sounds great. Go run 100 miles. Doctors tell you not to do everything, though. I know. That's true. They don't want the liability of being like. It's not just that. It's just like when I got my first knee surgery, I remember my doctor saying, well, no more martial arts for you.

I was like, the fuck out of here. Like, what are you talking about? Watch me. I was like, at the time, I was 22 or something like that. I'm like, you're fucking crazy. Like, what are you saying? Are you fixing my knee or not? Is it fixed?

Like, well, it'll be more vulnerable now. Okay. Yeah. And then when I get it fixed again, like my mind i was like i don't even know what you're saying i'm gonna stop working out i can't do martial arts ever ever again and then happen again when i got my second knee surgery i had a meniscus scope and the doctor same thing they were like well you need you really need to stop this i'm like oh okay i do meanwhile i don't look because here i'm still doing it 20 years later.

And I'm not in pain. Like, you guys are out of your fucking minds. They're so risk averse. They just want to avoid any kind of real problems you're going to have with your body. But I think your body is supposed to be used. Absolutely. You got to use that damn thing. I mean, like, I'm really into rollerblading right now.

Oh, boy. I could go on about the benefits of rollerblading. I think Raven was talking to people before this. Okay. Rollerblading is so great. And some people are like, oh, my balance is so terrible. I'm like, well, you should probably rollerblade. Because how do you improve your balance by doing things that are challenging your balance?

Like, you don't get better by avoiding it. But that's what people say. Oh, I can't rollerblade because of that. No, you should rollerblade. Just wear your helmet. Get your knee pads. Get your knee pads. Do what you got to do.

Do you have the hand things too? I don't. You don't? I just have the helmet. Oh, what about your hands? Don't you worry about the soft tissue in your fingers? No, not at all. I rode across the Atlantic.

I'm used to having to have kills. Rough stuff. Yeah. But running, and I think most endurance athletes end up doing the same repetitive thing, right? Right. And what most weaknesses are your hips. and a lot of people have knee issues which is because of weak hips and so i think what's really great about rollerblading is it targeted it targets the very areas that are often very like underdeveloped with running and biking

and repetitive hip muscles hips and then i think that's your hip muscles? Hips. And then I think there's the stabilizing muscles. And like you'll get that with like the Pilates and things like, you know, one-legged type drills. And I don't necessarily think the stabilizers. Like from my experience, like if my quads are really strong and I'm trying to run, I'm going to rely on my quads. And I'm not going to be like, hamstrings work really hard because I already know my quads are really strong. But with rollerblading, I think it gets into all these little stabilizing muscles. And I, so the areas that I'm really sore from rollerblading is like my low back.

And that's another area that matters a lot with like running because, um, like I think running, you could definitely think about like your strength and your muscle, but, but what's also from my understanding is like 30% of your run efficiency happens like because of your form and yeah, like, because of your form. And, yeah, low back definitely helps with form. And I don't know. I was just, like, thinking about, like, what sports are fun. And I don't think you could be in a bad mood while rollerblading. Yeah, it seems like it's a good time.

Yeah. It's – I just – It looks festive. You can't be angry while you're rollerblading. No, and you could, like, listen to music and, like, jam's, I just. It looks festive. You can't be angry while you're rollerblading. No, and you could like listen to music and like jam out. Jam out. I jam out. There you go.

That's what my friend and I are doing every weekend now. So that's your thing? For now. You're going to rollerblade across America? No. Are you thinking about it? No, I thought about it. Here's the thing.

It's really, okay, so I have the three-wheeled rollerblades. There's four wheels, which is what most people probably have used, but three wheels are a lot faster, and it's really hard to stop. Is it two in the front or in the back? No, it's not skating. It's like one. Oh, inline. Yeah.

Oh, like a blade. Yes. Oh, okay. So I cannot stop very well well that sucks and so i would not want to go across america if i didn't know how to stop why don't you go roller skating is that too easy oh no i don't i i feel like it's slower oh you want to go fast i mean it does feel like ricky bobby I mean, who wants to go slow? I get it.

So I think rollerblading is really fun and people should try it if they haven't. It seems like a good time. Yeah. And there are certain things that like, so like gymnastics, it's very artistic and fun to watch. But I'm sure for the gymnasts, it's not actually fun and artistic to do. But I think like ice skating and rollerblading, like it's fun for the person and for the person watching. I don't know. I think gymnastics are fun.

My middle daughter does gymnastics. She's really good at it, and she loves it. We have to stop her from doing it in the house. She does like back handsprings in the hallway. Wow. We go, hey, hey, hey, come on. That's pretty cool. Yeah. She loves it. We have to stop her from doing it in the house. She does like back handsprings in the hallway. Wow. Hey, hey, hey, come on. That's pretty cool. Cut the shit, yeah.

She loves it. Like she gets on the trampoline, does flips and all kinds of shit. She goes bananas. You can't stop her. She loves it. I've never really been, I always assumed that because it just looks so hard.

I think a lot of things that look hard when you finish them is a feeling of elation does that sound familiar yes i think when you don't think you could ever do a backflip and then all of a sudden you can hit two in a row or do a tuck and do a forward one and you know and you start doing it and then you get better and your form gets better it's like everything else it's like martial arts you know like martial arts are really hard. But when you get good at it, it's like, wow, it feels like you're in a real live video game, you know? Yeah.

Do you have anything that you're like, you know, like my little thing is like the splits. I've never worked my way into that. Oh, you should be able to do that. You're an athlete. My hamstrings are really tight. Yeah, you could do it. do that. You're an athlete. My hamstrings are really tight. Yeah, you could do it. I mean, it would take time.

I think it's fascinating. When I talk to someone like you that is willing to row across the fucking ocean and you're saying it would take time to do the splits. Because my body, yeah, because I trained it to do one thing yeah no i understand yeah yeah but it's just a matter of stretching yeah it's easy i mean it's patience it's just it's just consistency that's true i've been doing it my whole life i've been stretching my whole life so even though i'm a meathead i'm very flexible do you do any of the yin yoga yin yoga what is that oh okay so that's like uh the one where you're just like holding things for

three minutes and like wow it's from muscular so it's like it would be like nappy time yoga okay that one's mostly on the floor yeah yeah yeah but it's like probably the best stretching yoga yeah just stretch just make yourself stretch yeah yeah just decide I have an hour and a half right now that I'm going to do nothing but stretch. You'd be amazed at how much tension you carry in your muscles too. Like whenever I have a show, like a comedy show and I'm a little tense, I stretch. I feel way better afterwards. It's like all this and then just like, oh.

It just, you have more mobility everything moves better yeah yeah i definitely like the tennis ball too for like my back oh yeah oh we have these things those hype have you tried those fucking hyper ice balls these these they're these things they're hard and they vibrate like crazy and you roll on them and it just just say well try it afterwards afterwards it's one of our sponsors which you get on it and roll around on it it just loosens everything up it's like oh it's so much better than a tennis ball because i was using lacrosse balls yeah that's for a while those are nice yeah this is this is like that times 100 yeah yeah it's awesome huh because the vibration is crazy it's like what the fuck is in here that makes this thing vibrate like that?

And they have a roller that does the same thing. I'll show you later. Yeah. My friend has the wand one that she uses. Like, it's some kind of... Alex Honnold was here the other day. Yeah. You know who he is?

The free solo climber. He's great. And we were talking about flexibility. He's like, yeah, I'm not really that flexible. And I'm like, well, wouldn't it help you to be flexible? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you definitely would. And I'm like, why aren't you fucking stretching? And he's like, well, it's really hard.

I'm like, no, it's not. Like you fucking climb El Cap with no ropes. It's the same thing with you. It's like people are crazy. Like people have this thing that they do that's really difficult that they don't think is difficult. And then they look at something else and they'll be like, I can never play piano. You know, it's like it's kind of the same thing. Like we put limitations on ourselves.

Like you say, I would like to be able to do splits. I swear to God, if you lived in Austin, I could get you to do the splits in 30 days. 100%. Depending on how fucked up you are. How much time would this... You need an hour and a half a day. To do the splits? Yeah.

Oof. Like you could run... 70 days across the fucking ocean. No, it's not... It's just like that would be 10 miles of running. Yeah. Well, you could do that too. It's not stopping you from doing that. I mean, there's much time yeah it's 24 hours yeah you know how many times there

isn't a day you just do it but if you wanted that that's this thing that you keep saying yeah you're saying you wish you could do the splits well it's just one of the like yeah in the future not right now it's. I do it every day. You can do it. Stretch. All right. I'll let you know when I achieve my. It's so important because it prevents injuries.

It allows you to have more range of motion. And it's something that everybody loses as you get older. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like I do do weights two or three times a week and then do like a yoga once a week but i yeah i would definitely be more on the cardio side of the fence oh yeah i would imagine well a lot of runners are like real tight a lot of runners a lot of runners are very tight hamstrings because it's when you're done with all that running you don't fucking stretch like exactly yeah some fruitops or whatever.

Exactly. Yeah. Watermelon for me, but yeah. Watermelon, yeah. You just want something, you know. You don't want to like force yourself into it. But Goggins told me that he had such a problem with his psoas muscles that it was actually preventing him from running. Like he was trying to figure out what was wrong with him.

And then he realized it was just tightness of his muscle. And so then he started stretching, and then he got obsessed with stretching. And I think he told me he stretches two hours every day now. Something bananas like that, but that's very Goggins-esque. Yeah. That he would do something that hard two hours a day. But it's just just it's everything stretching's everything so important because it sucks there's a thing about it too that sucks

you know what one sucks for me the most is when um sitting down grabbing my toes and flattening my body to my thighs because it's just it sucks it sucks to breathe it's not fun it's just, it sucks. It sucks to breathe. It's not fun. It's painful. But once I do it, I'm like, I did it. Yeah. A lot of those stretches, it's like really bad for the first 30 seconds. And then sometimes it gets better. Or not.

Yeah, you loosen up. Yeah. Yeah, same thing with doing the splits. The door one's really great where you you lean into it and get your shoulders. Which one is that? How do you do it? You're in the door frame and then you lean. Oh, yeah, that's great.

That one's really good. Yeah, yeah. Hanging is great. By your hands on the chin-up bar. Yeah. My God, that's so good for your shoulders. It's like so many people have shoulder pain and a lot of it is just like everything is sort of impacted and tightened up. Yeah.

And it's hard to stretch those things. But just hanging from a chin-up bar, it's like everything sort of like stretches. And it feels great for your lower back too. Totally. One of my friends is really into the inversion. Oh, yeah. I love those. Tables and everything.

You know what's the best one? Teeter makes the ones that you hang by your ankles, but they also make this thing called the Dex. Do you know what that is? Uh-uh. It's the shit. You put your legs in it, almost like a leg curl thing, and then it hinges forward. And so you're hanging just from your hips. So there's no – the thing about the inversion table is you're hanging by your ankles.

Yeah. And it's great. It does loosen everything up. But this specifically targets your back. That's how it works. It's phenomenal. It reminds me of that like ab crunch thing. Yes, exactly.

And you can do back extensions on that thing too. You could use it for that as well if you want to. But that, oh, sorry. No, it's okay this is like definitely good for like one of the things with ultra running that i noticed like there's a lot of weird things that like and one of them like is the swollen hands and like swollen feet and usually every time after a long run i'm always always like putting my feet up above my head. Yeah, I'm sure.

Just to try to balance it out. Yeah. That thing though, you feel your back going like pop, pop, pop. You feel everything just sort of loosening up and decompressing. Yeah. Love that thing. Cool. You know what's a great piece of equipment that I just started using recently?

Let me guess. Go ahead. Give me a hint. It's for your legs. Is it... Wait, is it the ones... Sound like... Is it like the ones that puff up and give you a massage?

No, those are great, though. Normatec? Yeah. Those are the shit. Okay, not that. Yeah, those are great. No, this is an actual weightlifting thing. Maybe I never even heard of it then.

It's called monkey feet. You know what monkey feet are? I have yoga toes. Totally different. Yoga toes stretches your toes out. That's great for your feet. Those are legit. I like that. I do too. Monkey feet's a different thing. It's actually a harness that you put onto the bottom of your sneaker

or your shoe and then underneath it you can hold a dumbbell. So it's almost like you can hold something with your foot because this thing grasps the dumbbell at the bottom. I need to see this. Yeah. And what it's great for is like your hip flexors. You can lift like this. You're lifting weights like up with your legs and doing leg curls with it.

It's phenomenal. It's really good. And it's amazing how fucking weak your legs are in those ways. Like even if you do a lot of squats, like I can squat and deadlift and put some pretty heavy weight on the rack, but this is like 25 pounds. It's difficult for me to do a leg curl. I'm like, oh, this is shocking. Because I was like, these dumbbells, like 25 pounds, they're probably not going to be enough. That's what I was thinking. I'm probably going to have to curl like 75, 80 pounds.

No. 25 pounds, I'm like five reps in. I'm like, oh, shit. I'm falling apart here. Seven, eight. I'm like, that's's crazy 25 pounds is nothing i thought like my legs carry me around all day yeah but it's such an odd way for you to lift weights with your legs totally like i've been doing you can find that so uh so this is it oh

wow yeah so you hook that thing onto your sneaker, and then the barbell, or the dumbbell rather, at the bottom hooks onto this thing. And it's easy to take on and off. It's really well engineered. I love it. How is this? What if you just have, like, ankle weights? How is this better than ankle weights? Oh, ankle weights are okay.

But it's hard to get ankle weights in 25, 35 pounds, right? Okay. Most ankle weights are like 5, 10. This is better. And I just think it's phenomenal. I've been using it recently over the last few weeks, and I'm very impressed. And I'm impressed at how fucking sore my thighs are afterwards. Yeah.

Because I'm doing this thing. There's this guy. It's called Knees Over Toes. doing this thing there's this guy uh he's got a it's called knees over toes he's got this um protocol for um strengthening your knees yeah and uh it's crazy what this guy can accomplish physically like what he's capable of and this is a guy that's had a ton of different surgeries and one of his uh his key like these kind of moves where they would always tell you don't ever have your knees over your toes when you squat yeah he's like no the reason why is because your knees aren't stable build your way up to that but then work those muscles and you get

phenomenal strength what he calls dense strength in your legs like look at look what he could do with his hamstrings that's wild wild. Oh, it's wild. He goes all the way down forward and then can lift himself up. And he can also go all the way back. So he can be on his knees and fall all the way back so his back touches the back of his heels. And then without using his hands, come back up. Like go.

There he is doing it. Yeah, watch him do this because this is fucking crazy watch this all the way down now watch he goes all the way to the bottom and then comes all the way back up again that's incredibly difficult to do so i've been doing this guy's workouts and he has them all available for free on his on his instagram you can see how he's doing it or you can sign up for their program, and they'll put you. What does ATG stand for?

What is it? Athletic Truth Group, I think. Yeah, click on that. On that one, click on that because there's a guy that's doing that. That guy in the middle. Watch that guy. Watch this because this is crazy. Now, this is what they'd hope you do.

You can go from your toes all the way down to your knees like that. But watch. He goes all the way to the bottom. This is completely controlled. Now, watch. He goes all the way down and back and then all the way back up. It's incredible. I bet they have really good fail videos about this one.

Yeah, but it's a slow build. That's why you need to follow the program. But look what it says in his quote there, Jamie, if you can pull it. This is not an example of a training session of how I got here. This is simply a test of what I've been working on for the past three years with Athletic Truth Group, at Athletic Truth Group on Instagram, because I never worked through pain on this entire journey to get to this point, which is really amazing. But as a person who's been doing athletics and stretching my whole life, I'm super impressed by that movement.

That's a very, very difficult movement to control, and that guy's doing it super slow. difficult movement to control and that guy's doing it super slow. They do a lot of split squats and the idea of these split squats and they're working their way to that place where you can put weight and as it goes lower and lower and lower you're putting more and more pressure on the knee and on the surrounding stabilizing muscles. But I had a a big improvement just from doing this i've been doing this following this protocol for the past few months and uh just my knees just feel stronger like everything around it feels more stable and stronger i think what's encouraging about that too is him saying he never felt pain through it and i think i mean that's so cliche but like no pain no gain like that's a message that doesn't always apply and is actually.

Take it from a woman who rode across the entire fucking ocean. Okay. That no pain, no gain is for nonsense people. I mean, like pain is our body giving us a helpful message. Yes. Like, hey, dude. Stop it. Settle down.

Yeah. message yes like hey dude settle down yeah well there's so many guys that you know especially guys they just want to be uh they want to be the person who can take the most pain you know yeah they want to pump each other up let's go let's go let's go i mean pain tolerance is a helpful thing for like doing athletic things for sure. Especially for events, right? Like when you're doing these hundred mile runs, you're going to experience discomfort. But I would say like even in a hundred mile run, I think what's hardest is the first 10 miles because what I don't have is endorphins and endorphins give you energy endorphins mask pain endorphins like I I think yeah what's you know some yeah like you assume that the farther you go the harder it

is but sometimes the farther I go the easier it gets which is kind of cool to experience that makes sense i guess up to a point yes but those like moab 240s yes yeah after a while i would imagine like jesus i think anything after 24 hours is when things start getting weird just like hallucinating and like sometimes it's the blurred vision. Yeah. Just because it's messing with your body's natural systems of like we need sleep. Yeah. But it's cool to see how you can take these extreme things and make it tolerable for your body. And like even liquids, like I don't eat food when I do these things. Nothing? No, just all sports drinks.

Gels? Do you take any protein gels or glucose gels? No, it's mainly like sports drink. One of them is called Perpetuum, which has a little bit of protein. And then sometimes I get like this flavored-less sports drink. And I don't know if this is true, but like I've, I've read certain things about like 30% of what you consume is used to break down and use it. Like if you're eating food, um, there's a large, well, a percent that is used to be able to break down that food.

So like, I, I think it's really helpful to do like liquid based because you're not, you don't have to break that down. So you're more energy can go to movement rather than food and now is this something that you've experienced through trial and error yeah yeah i've definitely um i think the hardest thing um is just like getting enough calories in um and getting enough and not also having like gi issues because i think that's common just like right just yeah i know a lot of people do those they'll eat cheeseburgers and all kinds of stuff while they're running yeah i have i have done that for like iron mans but the more i do it the more i just kind of treat it like a little science experiment where it's like, okay, what's 30% of what I'm burning and, um, what's like, yeah. And if you

adjust to the liquid only, I think it ends up being a lot better. Less can go wrong. Yeah. Um, when you say not getting enough calories, like when you have a drink like how many calories are in one of those drinks uh i want to say like 300 at least 300 calories yeah i would see me like you need a lot more than that well i've heard that like if you take in too much your body can't even use it so while you're running you mean uh-huh yeah but yeah that and bananas and that's pretty bananas is a big one yep bananas and sports drink that's all I need now did you learn how to eat for these things did you did you start off did you have some bad ideas that you had to like flush out um one time I did do an iron man and the coach that I was working with is like,

it's like you went to the buffet and just had a little bit of everything. And like, because I think I had like, like those, not like turkey jerky, but like just like that kind of thing and then fruity things and um yeah I think I was so nervous and I was like okay I need to make sure I have sugar and salt and this and so um that definitely like it's not that I had to stop but it just was like I didn't feel as good and um like yeah I've definitely felt nauseous during some of these races but it doesn't help like with Ironman that you're like kind of hunched over and like it's hard to keep anything down and so but yeah a lot of people don't can't even keep things down when they're working out at that level.

Yeah, I can only imagine. What is your diet like normally? Right now I am vegetarian. So, I mean, it's nothing special. It's just kind of generally healthy. So vegetarian, so you include eggs? I do. Yeah, that's a good move yeah do you have chickens

if you have chickens it's the best move because that's like your pets they give you food yeah i don't know like i read something recently about like uh like the conditions for people who are working at like, yeah, animal processing plants and how like it kind of like there's a certain kind of like PTSD that they experience and how like how mentally it affects if your job is to kill animals all day. Oh, yeah. How can you – I just – yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's not good. No. No. You can't imagine that being good for someone to kill all day long and like how that messes with them psychologically. So for me – One of the first things they look for in serial killers. Exactly. Like I was –

Detort your animals. Yeah. Exactly. for me the first things they look for in serial killers exactly like i was torture animals yeah exactly so uh once i started reading stuff like that i was like that's okay i don't want to like and i know i could like hunt and do those things but being vegetarian is i bet you'd enjoy that the hunting thing because it's really difficult i bet you'd you'd find that quite challenging like an elk hunt i don't know like i feel like i would feel for the animal though you would feel for the animal yeah i don't know if i could but you would eat it for a whole year probably more yeah yeah if you shot like that's

why like large animals are the way to go yeah because it's one death and you can eat it all year. Yeah. One of my friends, he got in the lottery. In Maine, you have a lottery that you could. Yeah, and he got in it. Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard tag to get in Maine. It's a once-in-a-lifetime tag, right? Yeah, he's been trying to get on it for years and finally did.

Maine has some whopper moose, too. If you shoot a moose, you might eat it for two years because you're talking about an animal that could be, you know, 1500 pounds plus and that's on the hoof, probably like 600 pounds of meat. Yeah. Which is crazy. It's a pound of meat almost every day for two years. That's wild. It's wild. yeah. It's the best meat in the world for you, too. It's also just you understand where meat comes from. You have a much deeper connection to your food than if you're just going and buying Chick-fil-A. Totally.

Yeah, we're fucking weird. What we're doing with animals is weird in this country. And our solution might be even weirder. There's two solutions, right? One of them is to pretend that this slop that's pushed into a patty is some kind of a meat product. When it's beyond meat, it's beyond good for you.

That shit's terrible for you. If you want to eat vegetarian, you should eat actual real whole food. Like eat real vegetables. Vegetables are good for you. That shit's not good for you. They've done these studies on rats. And with one of those substitute meat burgers,

they've shown increasing rat liver cancer and all these problems these rats are having. The other one that's weird is lab-grown meat. That's strange to me. But sounds like it might be a way better alternative than factory farming if they can get it right. But it just seems like, wow, like we're moving so close to like headless things, you know, that you just like saw parts off of. And they're twitching and trying to get away. But it doesn't matter because they don't have a head. So what are you worried about?

It's just nerves. just nerves yeah like it's it's the connection that you have to your food when you grow your own vegetables when you harvest your own meat that it's a different thing like food becomes a different thing it becomes a different thing it becomes a spiritual thing and that sounds crazy to people for people to hear like if i eat a piece of elk from an animal that I kill I'm connected to that I remember the arrow hitting the animal I remember carrying it out I remember stalking it I remember everything and I eat it for a year I give it to my friends you know it's like the food is it's a different thing if you grow a garden and you have a salad that you pulled from your garden while you're eating that that salad like you're connected to that like you planted it you cleaned it you harvest it you like if a leaf drops on the

ground you pick it up and you wash it off you don't throw it away like you this is you grew that leaf there's something we're we're all we're doing ourselves a severe disservice and i know most people can't be involved in all of the preparation or the harvesting of their food. They just don't have the time. They have a family. They have a job. They have this. They have that.

I get it. But if you can, if you can find the time to grow your own food, if you can find the time, if you eat meat to hunt, I highly recommend it. Totally. Like the college that I went to actually was a farm school. So we worked the farm and then we had like a community service component and like ran the school. But we had our own plots of land and the cafeteria was all from like the cattle. And so it was very crunchy granola and like but once you taste food that's like that it's hard not to yeah eat that again tastes better and you just feel better about

it yeah you appreciate it yes you appreciate it yeah we're like some spoiled trust fund kids their perception of money you know like it's always there like that's how we feel about meat and food it's weird yeah it's not and it's real recent you know human beings have only been allowed to have this luxury over the last hundred years and not really even a hundred years it's really been over the last 50 or 60 and correspondingly we've gotten way fatter if you look at people from the 1930s and 1940s my goodness those people look slim you know i mean they weren't healthy it's hard to get food back then it was difficult right like a lot of people were fucking starving in the 1800s right but

people now it's like this is not the the better option to be eating so much that you're fat like we're so weird that our poor people are fat well it's i mean never happened before usually like the cheaper food is the not healthy like it's harder to like yeah i mean i i've wouldn't you agree that like it's Wouldn't you agree that having poor people having to be dealing with obesity is usually because of the, like, what is the, it's like called a food desert when there's places that they don't even have fresh foods so i think yeah like if you lack financial resources that's even more reason that you wouldn't be able to access that but yeah no that's a terrible cycle to try to get out of if you grow up in that environment you live in that environment and you grow up eating that way and your family eats that way and the people around you eat that way and everyone around you is poor it's super hard to get out of that totally i mean you're you eat that way and everyone around you is poor it's super hard to get out of that totally i mean you're you kind of adjust to that and then like i don't know

like how certain fast foods have things that make it so that you're more addicted to oh yeah for sure a lot of sugar the sugar and all that stuff it's also you know what we were talking about before that i've uh from having all these conversations with people, my box, like my understanding of human beings is way wider. It's way different. Yeah. Because I've experienced all these people. If you only experience a small number of people, your box would be very small and you put people in. Well, if you, your environment is so important and if your environment is very limiting and if you're only

experiencing bad food and shitty people and poverty and being in this like weird crime-ridden area that's your box like it's very hard for a person like that to escape it's very hard for a person like that to recalibrate their view of the world and i don't understand why we don't put more effort into trying to expand the box that these people live in this this the perspective that these people have because it would benefit everybody yeah and i don't it's like i've always said this and i was saying this when when uh trump was in office and he was like make america great again like this is how you make american great again make it so there's less losers less people lose at life and i don't mean losers like there's something wrong with them i mean like they got a bad hand right if you're playing poker and you have four aces and i have a one i'm fucked right

and that's a lot of people's lives. Well, if you have more people who have better hands, then you have a better, stronger country because you have more competition, you have more opportunity, you have more exceptional people. Through that competition, more people are going to rise, more people are going to innovate, more people are going to create businesses and chase their dreams. It's going to inspire more people. You're going to have less crime. It's great for everybody. Totally. But for whatever reason,

there's zero political emphasis on this. Zero. It's never a factor. Whenever people are running for president, they're never saying, what we've got to do is take these impoverished communities and fucking fix that. We need to fix that because it can be fixed.

If we can go to Afghanistan and send thousands of troops and nuclear bombs, tell me we can't fix Chicago. Tell me we can't fix the outside of Chicago. Tell me we can't fix Detroit or Baltimore or pick your impoverished neighborhood that's been crime ridden for decade after decade after decade with almost no federal emphasis on repair. Yeah. So if there's one area you think our country could improve the most and what change would you think well there's a bunch of areas right that's a big one a big one is the the way people grow up and the environment they grow up in and the the people that grow up without hope and

that they're what they're imitating because people imitate their atmosphere when their children they grow up you're seeing people that are constantly going to jail constantly involved in violence constantly involved in crime and that you become acclimated to that that's what you're used to yeah that we that needs to be fixed if you grow up in you know pick a nice place you know some some b, Colorado or whatever. It's not like that, right? It's beautiful. It's kind people.

Everybody's friendly. It's different, right? Because you don't have the same pressure. You don't have gangs in Boulder. You don't have all the, you know. So these places, it's just literally a matter of the universe gave you a shitty roll of the dice. Yes. And you were born into a bad neighborhood.

I agree. I guess one of my encouragements in that is sometimes when you have, like you said, Boulder, Colorado, everyone's friendly and do the nice things, right? Not everyone. But the nice things, right? Not everyone. But the nice things, like sometimes there's the diamond in the rough and sometimes under that pressure, something can be born that wouldn't be born without all the chaos and all that. And so maybe those, while I would never wish poverty, while I would never wish crime and all those heartaches, I have seen the stories. I have, you know, I think anyone can identify with, oh, this places where something is so broken that someone rises to do something about it or, I don't know. You know what I mean, right?

I do know what you're saying, that through, yeah, through pressure you create diamonds. Yeah. That is true. But I don't want everyone to have to do that. I feel like you can make your own pressure. Yeah. Like, look at you. You know, you've made your own pressure, right? I think that, uh, challenges are very good for

people, but I don't necessarily think the kind of challenges that you get if you're born in the South side of Chicago and you're watching people get shot all the time. I don't think that's, but out of those environments comes a pretty amazing, exceptional people because they've risen through all these obstacles. And through that adversity, they've gained tremendous character. Totally. You get amazing artists, right? You get amazing musicians and comedians and those kinds of people that have come from these horrible environments. That is true.

It's almost like you hear that more than you hear like, oh, everything was perfect. This thing happened. Like this great. From exceptional people you mean? Yeah. I would say that's a common thread. Do you want to have children someday? I don't know.

You don't know? I don't. When you have children, one of the things that's ironic is, for me at least, all my favorite people came from a fucked up environment. All of them. All of them came from either crime ridden neighborhoods or horrible upbringings or chaos and through that they've developed this amazing character. Because most of my favorite people are either fighters, martial artists, or stand-up comedians.

That's most of the group that I hang around with. And they're all from chaos. All of them. But through that, I'm just so lucky that I know these exceptional people that are just, they're so battle-tested, you know? And then some people are just made out of jello. they're so battle tested, you know? And then some people are just made out of jello.

Some people, they're little bags, little skinny fucking thin walled, like Ziploc bags of jello. Just there's no character and no form. And they, they just don't have any ability to weather the storm. Yeah. Cause they never have had to.

Yeah. And like, it's like the character has to be tested for it to... So as a parent, it's so fucked up because I don't want my kids to struggle. But it's like how else... My babies, I don't want them to have a hard time. I want them to be happy and I want them to be loved

and I want them to have good friends and I want them to pursue their dreams and have a good time. That's what I want, everybody to have a good time. But all my favorite people came from madness. So it's weird. So I think I encourage my kids to do difficult things. And they do. They do do difficult things.

They're interested in challenges. And you develop character through those challenges. And I think that's why sports are so important for people They're interested in challenges. And you develop character through those challenges. And I think that's why sports are so important for people because some of the most fucked up people that I know in terms of psychologically and their ability to cope and adapt and form relationships, they never competed. And they don't know how to lose and they consider because i think there's something in human beings where competing is an inherent it's a part of your dna in some strange way and i think like it comes from survival i think it comes from stealing and conquering and taking from one person because you don't have enough and there's this weird sort of thing that humans evolved doing when they were just scratching and scrounging

before civilization came along. And civilization came along and then it calmed down a little bit because it's like it's less important to do that and more important that everybody stick together and keep the wall strong to keep the invaders from coming in. But if you don't know how to lose, if you don't know how to pick yourself back up and try again, you're not going to be good at relationships.

You're not going to be good at compromise. You're not going to be good at understanding defeat. You're not going to be good at understanding objective analysis of your own behavior, objective analysis of your skill set. The people who can't do that are almost all people that have never had those those super uncomfortable moments where you do lose I think those are hugely valuable lessons for people I was listening to a TED talk and it uh it was about like this guy who set out on a quest to fail and like it at the end it was so hard for him to like or be rejected.

And like, yeah, it's almost like our society is so like all about success and like just kind of. I know that TED talk you're talking about. Yeah. And he had to try to go to the neighbors and he wanted to like plant a shrub in their front yard. And they're like, no, but this lady down the street would love it. And like. Okay. Yeah.

And she says no. yeah yeah but like that is a beautiful thing and like i think yeah on any journey to be successful it's like you have to really get comfortable being unsuccessful or failure just being okay with failure that's it yeah it's it's important the you only get the peaks if you've experienced the valleys you just you don't get those peaks if you're just on a fucking peak all the time what's the biggest failure that was hard for you to bounce back from oh i've had a lot of them i don't know where to start as a comedian you had a lot of them. I don't know where to start. As a comedian, you have a lot of them because you bomb a lot, especially in the beginning. There's a lot of bombing. Yeah, I couldn't have.

And then before that, I was a martial artist. I'm still a martial artist, but I used to fight, so I lost. Losing in fights is not – that's the worst. But not just losing in fights, but just, like, losing in training because you're training and you get your ass kicked in the gym. That's terrible. That's a terrible feeling. I mean, when you lose, in training because you're training and you get your ass kicked in the gym. That's that's terrible. I mean, when you lose, it hurts for you. Like when I lose.

Yeah. It doesn't have the same. Even when you win, it hurts a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And it just hurts. It hurts everywhere. Like your arms hurt and you realize, oh, I got kicked there. Like, like, why?

How come I can't pick something up with my left arm? And then you realize like, oh, yeah, I took a shin to my elbow. Now my elbow is fucked up for a couple of weeks. Or I didn't tap out to this arm and now I can't do a chin up for a few weeks because I decided I was going to try to be a meathead and muscle out of something instead of tapping. And now I can't do a chin up. Like now my neck doesn't work so good because someone caught me in a guillotine.

And, yeah, there's always that. I think martial arts are a great vehicle for that. What I always say is, and I learned this from my taekwondo instructor when I was a kid, that martial arts is a vehicle for developing your human potential. What you think you're doing is you're trying to win exchanges and fights and sparring rounds but what you're really trying to do is get better you're trying to get better and the problem is presenting itself in the form of this thinking intelligent person that also can do all the things you can do. So you're not kicking an inanimate object.

You're trying to kick a person who knows that you're trying to kick them. And they know how to kick you, and they're trying to kick you. And so you're both doing it at the same time. And it's this wild exchange of bones and technique. And the consequences are terrible if you fuck up. Do you have a lot of adrenaline when you go into all these fights? Well, I haven't done it in a long time. Now I just spar. I hardly ever

I haven't kickbox sparred in more than a year and the jujitsu sparring is not as scary because the jujitsu sparring is you're just trying to choke each other. And you can always tap. The consequences the scary thing about jujitsu is injuring yourself, right?

It's like you get an ankle rolls and then your knee pops or you get caught in a funny thing and your neck gets fucked up. That's what's scary about jiu-jitsu. And what's scary for a lot of people that do jiu-jitsu is the idea that you're going to get hurt and you're not going to be able to do it because people get so addicted to it oh yeah like i feel like the hardest thing is not actually starting at stopping like yes and like for me now i'm at a place where it's like i'm not afraid of going i'm going i'm afraid of going too far going so far that like i mean yeah rabdo was the last one and like i yeah just knowing the limit

and like where have you ever tried any martial arts no you're really strong i'm sure you'd be great at jujitsu well thank you i if you could fucking row across the entire i mean my goodness what kind of core strength and leg strength and shoulder strength you must have. You must be strong as fuck. I mean. You have to be to do Ironmans, do all that stuff. And to have that kind of endurance, you'd probably be amazing at jiu-jitsu. You just got to work on your flexibility.

Oh, okay. No, but you probably would love it. I don't know about injury, though. You know, I don't want to. You don't get about injury, though. Eh. You know? I don't want to... You don't get injured all the time. You know? It seems like you get more injured than ultra stuff. Well, I would imagine you guys get a lot of stress fractures.

Goggins sent me some pictures of his fucking knees where he got his knees drained, and it was like these three giant tubes of blood that were in his knees. I mean, giant fucking syringes of blood and pus in his knees. Yeah, I've never experienced anything like that. He's crazy, though. If he's hurt, you're never going to hear about it.

He's just going to keep going. What was that? Yeah, I said if he's hurt, you're never going to hear about it. He's just going to keep going. So he's got all this injuries compound and just has to get his knees drained. Yeah. My friend's a doctor, worked on him and they sent me pictures of the, uh, the pus and the blood. But why? Because his knees swole up.

Like? From running. Cause he's constantly running like ridiculous miles. I know people who run ridiculous miles and do not have whatever that is. They should run with David Goggins. He sends me text messages out of nowhere. Stay hard! Just out of nowhere.

Just tells you to stay hard. I'm like, okay. Have you ever seen his videos online? Well, okay, here's the thing. You could have fun. You could stay the thing. You could have fun. You could stay hard, but you could have fun. Uh-uh. He doesn't have any fun.

He's not interested in having fun. He does have fun. I've had fun with him. I've taken him to UFC fights. We've had dinner together. He's fun. He's great to hang out with. You could run 100 miles and have fun.

He's not interested in that. He's interested in killing demons. Like some of these, like even professional triathletes, like Christy Wellington, she always looks like she's having fun. Huge smile. David Goggins is interested in taking those demons inside of his head and making them his bitch. He could have fun too.

He's missing out on some fun. Make those demons your bitch. Those demons ain't going away. You ever seen his videos that he has on Instagram? Yeah, I see. I have seen some of his stuff. They get you uncomfortable? Well, I'm just like, we could have fun.

No, no, no. There's no fun. His fun is that. That is his fun. His fun is making demons his bitch. Okay. Well, I just mean like you could do the same thing. Yes.

And you could do them in different ways. Yeah, yeah. And I prefer doing it in a fun way. This is a new one? Pretty new. Go to that one that I put up on my Instagram because it's hilarious. Because it was one of the more recent. I put a bunch of them up.

But one of the more recent ones that I put up. I do appreciate. Where he was talking about making his demons his bitch that like you know he came from a place i think what's encouraging for his story is like he was like 300 pounds yeah yeah he he developed this mindset because he was just embarrassed by how weak he felt he just felt like he was weak and he's soft and he allowed himself to get horribly out of shape there it is right there i think i've seen this one 2020 was a perfect example of that a lot of people lost jobs businesses, lost family members. A lot of folks spent a lot of time in the hospital

on ventilators. That should have caused a lot of demons in your brain. Folks see how much that work out and they think I'm running from demons. It's not demons, it's discipline And I'm a disciple of discipline. You cannot run your demons. They'll always find you. Only way to beat them motherfuckers is to look at them eye to eye and make them your bitch.

Mindset's the only thing that gets you through hard times. Merry fucking Christmas. You will not see a video like that. I love that guy so much. I love him so much. I'm just so happy he's out there. Make him your bitch.

Look those demons in the eye. While he's running. And you know he's really thinking those thoughts that is not insincere you know there's a lot of people that have these like hype up motivational things what you need to do with your life you need to get everything together you need to get out there and get motivated and get pumped up and have some positive energy and go out there and attack the world you know they're full of shit there's like it's these are empty promises this is a hollow vessel. Totally.

That dude is thinking that while he's saying it, while he's doing it. He's in there. He's running while he's saying those words. He's thinking, I'm making those demons my bitch. And he's doing it. Yeah. And you know how people saw that video and just said, fuck it, I'm going out. And they just put the running shoes on.

They just start running or they hit the gym, they started doing chin-ups, they started doing something. That guy, he is an engine of motivation. He makes things happen. Just his life leading by example makes things happen.

I see it. I know, but you're not that way. But you don't have to be that way. You can have a good time and smile through your trials and tribulations. I mean, I think what is also underrated is habit. Like there's motivation and then there's habit. Yes. And like, I don't know. Here's what I've experienced about motivation.

I've experienced about motivation. Like, most people like think you have to be motivated before you run 100 miles or before you run a mile or before you do things. But I find that motivation happens while or after you begin, like running one mile makes it easier to run the next mile or like whatever it is, if you're writing writing a paper it's a lot easier after you write the first page so like I don't even think motivation is that important like you don't need to wait to be motivated to do anything you just do it and then motivation it's kind of like motivation equals movement and it's easier to move once you kick the ball. And so the ball just keeps moving. So even motivation, it's like, yes, of course, it's important. But if you just say, oh, I'm just going to do it and motivation will eventually show up. It's kind of like your friend that's always late to the party. Like, oh, that's motivation. Like, usually, I don't know. I

don't know if motivation, do you see what I mean? I do see what you mean. Yeah. No, I completely agree with you that motivation is not, it's not primary. No. Discipline is primary. Correct. Exactly.

Like, motivation is like feelings. Yeah. Like, we don't say, oh, do I feel like brushing my teeth today? Do I feel like doing this? Sometimes it's just like you make a choice. And whether you feel or don't feel, you've already just made a commitment. And you just understand that sometimes you feel or don't feel. But eh.

I completely agree with you. I feel like motivation is like for me it's dessert. What's important is the food. Yes. But I like dessert too. That's true. So motivation is like for me it's dessert what's important is the food yes but i like dessert too that's true so the motivation is dessert so sometimes i just like motivation sometimes i just want to listen to some fucking crazy music and watch fights on the tv and work out like a monster just go crazy totally and i need motivation like that's my motivation like and go crazy but the bulk of the work gets done where i like have a cup of coffee i get up in the morning and i don't want to do it yeah i'm not feeling like oh i'm gonna go work out like a fucking savage no i'm not

thinking that but i have a schedule and so like especially like my kickboxing workout days i know exactly what i have to do so i start the, and I have three rounds of shadowboxing with weights. So I do the three rounds, and then I have six rounds on the wrecking ball bag, and then I have six rounds on the tie bag. And then by the time I'm done with the wrecking ball bag, I am nine rounds in, I'm soaked with sweat, music is playing, and now I'm going. Now I'm going.

Now I'm'm now everything is like super energetic and but it's because i made myself do it because i in the beginning like i work out most of the time like nine in the morning i don't want to work out nine in the morning yeah i don't want to do that i don't want to do that but i have to do that so i do that and just one foot in front of the other and next thing you know it's happening. What I love about the kickboxing workout days when I do those is I have a timer. I have this title. There's a company that makes this boxing timer and it just shows me a red light when I don't have to go and a green light when I go. And the green light goes on, it goes ding, ding, ding, ding ding ding ding and then I have three rounds of

savagery and then after that it'll give me a whole minute where I could drink water and rest and I know it's coming here it comes and ding ding ding round starts again and then yeah so it's I'm on a schedule like I can't deviate the schedule is clear it's right in front of you. You have to do it. So that's like schedules are really important. You can't say, oh, I'm going to work out. What am I going to do? Hmm. Fucking write it out, bitch. Write down what you're going to do.

And then just go do that. And then once you start doing it, once you're a couple steps in, three, four movements in, you're on your third set, you're on your fifth set, then you're in it. Then you're in it third set you're on your fifth set then you're in it then you're in it then you're sweating then everything's going but for someone who's maybe thinking like i gotta get my shit together i don't know what's wrong with me you watch a video like that that is where where motivation comes in motivation is like those embers those very first few embers you can't heat your fucking house with embers you need logs you need a fire you need to chop the wood you need to do all that work yeah but sometimes people just

need a video they need something that's true and just i think just seeing someone else do it yeah because then you're not the person like if you see someone else then you you're like, okay, if he's doing it, I can too. But, yeah, I've watched videos like that when I was training to do, like, pull-ups and just seeing. Because, yeah, I felt like that was. How many pull-ups can you do in a row? Right now, I don't think I could do more than a couple. But, like. What was your best? Like 10.

That's pretty good. Oh, cool. Don't you think? The most push-ups was like 50 and then the most push-ups. Wow, that's a lot. I was happy about that one. That's pretty good. Because it was for Coast Guard training and that was the maximum that the females could do.

That's the maximum they let you do that you can get to get like we get tested on um like for officer training we were tested for running sit-ups and push-ups so push-ups you're top of the food chain yeah that's impressive that's 50s a lot but for a woman 10 chin-ups is a lot that's you know strict chin-ups yeah that lot. That's, you know, strict chin-ups. Yeah. That's a lot. I was definitely training for that and, like, for summer. When I see those CrossFit, those kipping ones. Yeah, no. I was like, I don't know if that's the way to do it.

No. I mean, there's probably a benefit in that. There's something to it. It does look weird, though. Well, you know, there's a guy named Fedor Milianenko. He's probably one of the greatest heavyweight fighters of all time. Used to be the heavyweight champion of pride. And I used to watch him do that.

He always did those kipping pull-ups. I would probably have made fun of them if I didn't see Fedor doing them. I'm like, maybe there's something to it. Yeah. Maybe. But it seems like it's not as hard. I mean, when I was, like, specifically trying to do it, I would definitely be, like, when I was going down, that was when I would try to take as much time. Yeah.

Versus even going up. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. Because that seems like the way to do it. Do you ever do CrossFit or anything like that? I have done it in the, like, sometimes in the winters I'll do it. But I mainly like doing body weight.

Like, right now I'm doing a lot of barre, which, like you were saying earlier, like with. It's B-A-R-R-E, right? Yeah. For people at home. Yes. Like, what does she mean? She goes to the bar? What the fuck does that mean?

But, like, some of these workouts, I'm only using, like, five-pound weights, and I could, like, totally blow out, like, my muscle groups and stuff, so... I have these egg weights that I shadowbox with. They're five pounds, five pounds in each hand that you can, it's hard, especially the ones where you're like that. Oh yeah.

You don't need a lot of weight for a lot of actions, especially when your shoulders are extended with weight. Oh, it's great. Like when you do eyes, wise and teas, you know, those,

you don't need like 15 pounds is a lot when you're doing those. Yeah. It seems like it shouldn't be, but it is. You know? Definitely the shoulder stuff. Yeah. I can tell, like, all you need is 5, 10. Yeah, a small amount of weight.

I use, do you know what club bells are? You ever use those? They're these, like, it's like a club, like a small baseball bat made out of steel. And I do a crazy workout with them with 15 pounds where it's called, you know what a shield cast is? Do you know what that is? No, this is fancy stuff. No, a shield cast is like if you had it in your hand like this, like this, if this was

the bar, you'd go like this around and then you hold it in front. Oh, yeah. And then you hold it in front. Oh, yeah. And then you hold it in front like that. And it's amazing for shoulder mobility and shoulder strength and endurance. And it's really good stuff. And it's 15 pounds. It's like if someone's like, all right, we're going to work out hard today. Pick up the 15 pounds. People are like, get out of here, bitch.

He's doing a two-hander one. So he's doing it with a – that looks like a heavier club. That looks like probably maybe 25 or maybe even 35 pounds, which is a great way to work out too with a 35-pound. And, again, people would say, 35 pounds, that ain't shit, bro. I need heavier. Have you been able to do workouts with people on your show like David Goggins? I've worked out with some people on the show.

Cam Haynes is a good buddy of mine. We've worked out a bunch of times. The runner well he's a he's a bow hunter you know he does he's a weird guy he in a good way he got into running so he could have more endurance for bow hunting because he hunts elk in the mountains he considers that the ultimate challenge yeah so all of his endurance and all of his 100-mile races and all that shit, he got into all that, all of his crazy workout routines and lifting weights routines. He got into that entirely to be the best bow hunter on earth, and he arguably is.

He's certainly in the top three. This is a tight argument for who's number one. I tend to think he's number one because there's no one else who could do the stuff that he does on top of that, the physical things he does on top of that. So he can get to places that other people, sometimes you'll see an elk, they'll cross a ridge,

and you have to get to them before they get to a valley where they'll be out in the open. He can get there quicker than anybody can. And he can get there and not be tired. So he could literally run after this animal and his heart rate will be at a total manageable level whereas like if i went after it i'd be fucking dead you know like our fat guy is fucked right he can get to places quicker and so his idea was i need to be in the best possible shape that i can to be the most successful I can at something that generally has like a

less than 10 success rate is bow hunting for elk so very for the average person not for a person like him with the average person but even a person like him he's never unsuccessful like every year he's successful which is just nuts like most people you know every year or two you come up empty because it's hard it's a hard thing to do even if you're really good at it and you practice all the time it's a difficult pursuit so his thing is very different than other people's thing because he's not doing it just to test himself he is definitely doing that but he's also doing it because he wants to be the best bow hunter on earth so is that common for bow hunters to also train with, like, doing running? It is because of him.

Oh, so he kind of. Yeah, he's changed the world, like, literally. The world of bow hunting is forever changed because of him, 100%. Yeah, he's got countless people out there, men and women, that are training. They're doing like rucking up hills with weights on their back. They're doing all kinds of crazy different weightlifting workouts and running workouts and all these different things so that they can be fit. In fact, since he started doing it, I mean, he's been doing it for decades,

since he started doing them, he's been doing it for decades, but they've actually developed these athletic contests that have to do with getting fit just for hunting. So there's like a whole, like there's a bunch of different organizations that provide various workouts specifically designed for mountain hunters. Because you're dealing with high altitude, very steep inclines, very difficult terrain. You have to be fit. Like, it's the number one problem when I've talked to my friends

that are guides that take people, like, that know the terrain and take people professionally to hunt. I go, what's the number one problem? He's like, fitness. Number one problem with the clients is fitness. Because a lot of these people just can't keep up. I wonder if they have, like, similar workouts to, like, firefighters and, like, just carrying gear and stairs.

They say it's legs and lungs. Those are the two most important things for an elk hunter to be successful, legs and lungs. You have to have leg endurance and you have to have cardiovascular fitness that makes sense and those are things that every most men hate to work on you know everybody just wants to be fucking jacked they don't want to look good but that's it's pretty easy it's like lifting weights like that kind of lifting weights like to be pumped is it's not easy. You know, if it was easy, everybody would do it. But it's way easier than running up hills.

Like running up hills is fucking terrible. It is the worst. But running down hills is really fun. You like running down hills? So I officiated my friend's wedding on Mount Rainier. And the last three miles were like snow fields. And we brought tarps and we were like luge down oh wow it was amazing that sounds fun then the rest of it you could like run down it's yeah running down hills it's really cool you should try okay you just feel like you're flying yeah I, I get it. It seems like a lot of pounding, though.

Is it pounding on your knees? I think it's kind of similar to if you were jumping on a trampoline or very light and springy, as long as you're not locking out your knees. Yeah, I say yes, but I'm also a midfoot runner, so I think that helps. As opposed to a heel runner? Yeah, heel striker. I think heel striking is like three times the impact. Yeah, must be. Terrible for you.

Isn't that amazing that that's all because of Nike? Yeah. Then they made the running shoe and made the heel part fat so you could run on your heels. They changed people's gait. Yeah, well, now shoes are different for sure. But it's pretty bizarre that they did that. Yeah. Like people forever ran on the balls of their feet.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, now looking back, it's like, well, yeah, that makes sense. It's where all the padding is and how we walk when we're not in shoes. Yeah, I mean, what's crazy is your foot is designed as a spring. Yeah. Like it actually reduces the the impact it actually catches you yeah and lets it you know let's say it'll just decelerate they're definitely getting better with like the wider toe boxes too like so that you can actually use your toes and splay them out

yes yeah wider toe box is big i have. So for me, that's very important. Like narrow running shoes. I was running on those Vibrams for a while. Those five toe shoes. You don't like those? No. You can. Look at your face.

You don't like the way they look or you don't like the way they feel? Wait, are those like little toe jam ones? Yeah, the toe shoes. No. You don't like the way they look? I don't like the way they feel. little toe jam ones? Yeah, the toe shoes. No. You don't like the way they look? I don't like the way they feel. Like toe jam. Toe jam.

They're toe jam shoes. Like because they feel like something's stuck in between your toes. Yeah. Like it's not supposed to be there. But do you think there's any benefit to each toe being able to articulate? Yes, absolutely. Like you're using different muscles in your feet and your legs. And so, yeah, absolutely.

Because if you don't have that, you know, yeah, yeah, of course. Have you ever seen that image of, it's the early 1900s, Native American Thorpe. Jim Thorpe. Jim Thorpe. Jim Thorpe when he won the Olympics. He won the Olympics in someone that had stolen his shoes. So he found a pair of shoes in the garbage and they were mismatched. And one of them was bigger than the other one.

So on one of them he wore two socks. He had like extra socks on one of them. And they're two different colors. And he won the fucking gold medal with these shoes. He needs an extra medal for that. And they look like shoes that people wore when they would work in an office or something. That's him. That is hilarious.

That's him. When he won the fucking gold medal in the Olympics with those shoes on. He might have been better off being barefoot, though, at that point. I don't know. It looks like he's got spikes in them things. See? Wow. Doesn't that look like spikes in the front of both of them?

Totally does, right? Yeah. Look at that. I've definitely done like that. 1912 Olympics. Pull that up a little. Jim, an American Indian from Oklahoma, represented the U.S. in track and field. In the morning of his competitions, his shoes were stolen.

Probably by the fucking Russians. Jim ended up finding two shoes in a garbage can. That's the pair he's wearing in this photo. But one of the shoes was too big, so he had to wear an extra sock. Wearing those shoes, Jim won two gold medals that day. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. It's not a big amount. It's a hard man right there. Hmm.

So there you go. You're like, I don't know what to say to that. But I mean, what people wore back then. But the other thing about shoes back then is they're basically minimalist shoes if you look at it, right? Yeah. Like when Jesse Owens ran, if you look at his shoes those were what you would consider a minimalist shoe today yeah right like all the padding all that jazz that's kind of non-existent back then yeah i mean i i know that people do the barefoot stuff and um

i think that just being on concrete like the last ultra I did was like running across Maine and it was all concrete. And even then I had edema, which is like swelling of your ankles and stuff. How bad? Yeah, it was pretty bad. Like it was bruised. What do you do when you get out of there when something like that's over? How do you recover from? Like it was bruised.

What do you do when you get out of there when something like that's over? How do you recover from? So I like the first hundred miler I did, I remember waking up and like I had to go to the bathroom and I was like, okay, time to go to the bathroom. And I remember like telling my legs to move and they didn't. So I was like physically. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't.

That was a first um so usually it takes like two days for me to be able to like walk again like normally um stairs are usually really hard but uh usually like for a lot of these events um I don't sleep well the first night just because I still have so much like adrenaline and so much like just really amped up. But then, yeah, it's just a matter of like sleeping a lot and doing like light walks. Do you use those Normatec boots? I have. Like there's a treadmill gym in Portland that i've used them after some of my you don't have a pair no can we get you a pair i don't know can you yeah yeah i'll get you a pair whoa yeah i'm thinking of doing another running adventure okay what are you gonna do it's it's a

world record a world record yeah i can't you can't tell anybody can't tell can we help can we like sponsor you or something yeah that'd be amazing all right we're in all right it's in june but june okay all right well we'll talk off air all right you can't spill the beans on the program but uh but when you announce it yeah then can you spill the beans sure okay so you want to come back right before you do it? Sure. Okay. Let's do it. Okay. We'll pump it up.

All right. Sounds good. I'll get Nomertech to hook you up. Okay. Yeah. That would be amazing. Yeah, you need those. How do you not have those?

Well, I'm a little bit of like on a shoestring kind of adventure sometimes. We'll take care of it. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. No problem. Yeah. So I have used those, but foam rolling and, like, putting your legs up the wall is usually what I do. But, yeah, I'd say within a week.

Those rollers that I was telling you about, same company. Yeah, yeah. High prices, same company. Yeah. Yeah, they make the Normatec boots. They make those crazy rollers that i was telling you about same company yeah yeah high prices same company yeah yeah they they make the normatec boots they make those crazy rollers that vibrate you're gonna throw those regular rollers out wait till you try these things okay it's bananas yeah you're like yikes but um yeah uh for like my last run I like running too much to run for at least three weeks until afterwards. So you run. So like after running across Maine, I stopped running for three weeks until my body was like completely healed.

Because I think when I say I love running too much to run immediately after is because I don't want to get burnt out. And I think three weeks is a respectable amount of time to give my body a chance to recover. But, I mean, I know ice baths also help with, like, recovery. Do you do that? For my run across Maine, I didn't just because I was in so much pain that just a little extra pain would have just put me over the edge. Wow. You know what I mean? If you have sunburn and just someone touches it and you're just like, ah.

Do you think that it would have maybe relieved some of that pain with the ice bath? No. pain with the ice bath no because of like chafing and like there's a lot of little injuries that happen that you might not be aware of until after the fact and like just little things like that um so yeah really just sleeping and eating as you can tolerate it and so you just chill for a while yeah just decide look did something crazy it's time to let it all come back together yes yeah but usually I mean that's what's amazing about our bodies is like I don't need to tell it what to do if you give it enough time it will figure out how to rebuild and how to um yeah heal itself so when you think about doing something like this new thing that you can't talk about yet when when you um excuse me when you plan something like this

out do you just say okay i need a wacky challenge i need something something that really pushes me something that's gonna really get the fires going so sometimes I feel like like the bus in Australia I do feel like sometimes these ideas found find me when I least expect it I don't really have a bucket list but I am driven by like that curious insatiable like need to find out and like I don't think I'll run across Maine ever again in my life, because I think what's beautiful about adventure is, like, and I don't think I'll row the Atlantic again, because I came. Because you did it. Yeah. And I had a pure experience. I didn't read about how everyone else did it. And no one else had run across Maine. So I didn't read about who else ran

this or that just because there's something so pure about doing something that hasn't been done before or like off the beaten path because you have no preconceived notion of what you are going to experience. So one of the driving factors for me is just like the curiosity to find out. And like I now that I ran across Maine or did this or that, there's no there's not that like, oh, I wonder like it's it's so I think, yeah, I don't necessarily think I'll be doing the same of anything. don't necessarily think I'll be doing the same of anything. But with running, there's still like cycling, I answered a lot of those questions already swimming, I did like a 325 mile swim. So I feel like I answered those questions. But I don't think that the questions have been answered about like the around the world trip, because that has more to do with decision making on your feet and dealing with people, finding out where to sleep, finding out where, like, I don't know, there's different challenges that aren't really as much physical. Like, of course, riding your bike 60, 80 miles a day,

there's real physical challenges. But for that adventure, I'm driven by meeting people and seeing parts of the world that you never would and these chance encounters that you would never have had you not been on this road at this time. So for running, I do feel like there are those questions of like, I've done like one really long run but I'm curious to see how my body responds to doing one after another and like I think what I didn't experience in Maine is running on like fatigue the next day and so that's kind of where like cycling across America I've done that a couple times. And I've got to learn what that feels like.

And also doing, like, 200-mile bike rides at one go. And those are very different things. But for running, I haven't experienced a multi-day running adventure. So that's a hint of what's to come. That is. Why don't you talk to Eddie? Okay. Eddie Izzard.

Okay. You should link up up find out yeah i mean i've talked to people about like their experiences if they have done ultra like more of the multi-day events and what i've been encouraged by is like I've heard that the and and from biking across America like there's only so much you can do to train and if anything you might over train or like just be so burnt out that you don't even want to do it anymore so I from what I've heard is like the training happens almost during like your body adapts and you need kind of a basic level of fitness. And will. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.

But, yeah. That's what you saw with Eddie Izzard in that documentary, that there was no real serious fitness level in the beginning. Yeah. I mean, like. Which is kind of crazy. It is. But yeah, I definitely like after doing marathons and stuff, you see all walks of life. And even myself, people would be like, I think in triathlon, if you're over 140 pounds for some of those races, you're considered Athena and like plus size. So like Athena, that means like bigger people. 140 pounds for some of those races you're considered athena and like plus size so like

athena that means like bigger people like athena really yeah have you heard of that before you have you said it was a normal thing well like athena you're considered athena yeah like it's like uh plus like if you're over 140 pounds some of these races you're considered plus size. That's how like tiny these people are. So even myself, I wouldn't fit the box. Like I'm not a twig and I probably, yeah, like yes. Why is the Athena category so useless? Look at that.

140 pounds. Fit is feminist. Wow. More. 140 pounds. Fit is feminist. Wow. I'm more than 140 pounds, so I am a plus-size triathlete. Clydesdale. How fucking rude. Clydesdale. An attempt to equalize competition for non-elite running and multi-sport events between big

and small people. For men, Clydesdale is anyone over 200 pounds I'm a fucking Clydesdale I'm an Athena minimum weight for Athena Athena and the division runner is either 140 or 150 you're in Athena yep so I'm a plus size you're a sturdy gal that's what it means well that makes sense too because like Zach B like, Zach Bitter, you know, Zach won the world record for 24 hours or for running 100 miles. He ran 100 miles in 11 hours on a track, which is crazy. But Zach is a rail.

You know, he's a very small guy. Yeah. Like, if you had, like, a big, like, the dude who won the chin-up competition, if you had that guy try to do that, it's too big. Yeah. I think. Who knows? If he can do that, maybe he can do anything.

Maybe it's a mind thing. I mean, I think. I don't know if he can do it the way Zach did it, though. Yeah. I think what I have going for me is not getting injured. Because you're sturdy. I guess. Yeah.

Is that a weird word for girls? They don't like that word. I don't know. Is that a weird word for girls? Didn't like that word. I don't know. It's a weird one, right? Like I mean it in a complimentary way. Like you're a stout, strong woman. Stout's bad too. Said that.

I fucked that up too. Sturdy and stout. Both of them. A lot of chicks don't want to hear that. That's what I like right now. I like them sturdy. I've definitely heard, like, if I do speaking, some people are like, you don't look like you could do that. I'm like, hmm, hmm, okay.

What is that supposed to mean? I know, exactly. Homegirl who won Moab 240, the one who did on the show. Yeah, Courtney DeWalter. She's very small. Like, what is Courtney way about? Courtney DeWalter. She's very small. What is Courtney Way about? I don't know. She's tiny.

She's a savage. She's also experienced that thing you were talking about, like blurred vision to the point where she had, I think it was corneal edema, I think it's called, where her eyes were bleeding so she couldn't see. And she tripped and fell and smashed her head on a rock so blood was pouring down to her head Couldn't see oh she could barely see her feet in front of her and still one Whoa, I did watch her that lady's a savage. She's cool. She's savage and when we had her in here

I'm like what do you eat? She's like candy drinks beer I'm like, what do you eat? She's like, candy. Drake's beer. Drake's beer eats candy. I mean, you just need calories. Yeah. You just need the calories. Yeah, it's just for, I mean, just that alone, that example, the fact that she was literally going blind, never considered stopping, fell, smashed her head. So, like, there's a picture of her running where she's kind of blind with blood pouring out of her forehead and still wins a race like that that is a tough person you know i think it's really cool also in ultra running

you'll see it more that women are holding their own and like compared to men like one she fucking won she beat the first guy the the the guy that came in second place by 10 hours. Wow. 10 fucking hours. Imagine you train so hard. You're like, I'm a beast. I'm just going out there and kick ass. Yeah. Well, I came in first for men. Oh, you came in first for men.

Oh, interesting. What's first for women? 10 hours, whatever. Do you know what that's called? 10 hours? Being chicked. Oh, is that what they call it? Yeah.

Who calls it that? I don't know, but I've seen shirts that say like, I was chicked and I liked it kind of stuff. Guys are cucks. They like it. It's a little weird, right? But that is a term. Yeah, it's a guy trying to impress women. This femininity.

He probably hates it. Doesn't like it. It's full of shit shit can't trust that guy guy's a liar right am i wrong there's no way he likes it did you did you race because you want to lose what the fuck are you talking about you like being chicked i don't know i was chicked and i liked it stay home right what the fuck is that yeah women can hold their own hell yeah they can well Courtney certainly fucking can I think she wins they say something about like how uh females have a really high pain tolerance so that's why it helps in ultras because of yeah it makes sense completely

and being able yeah completely handle that yeah yeah most men most men do not have a high pain tolerance. But I think women have probably experienced pain differently because of the whole childbirth thing, right? Yeah. I would guess. If there was like a way where you could experience with like a microchip, experience what it's like to be a guy for a day. They could plug into a guy's brain, be a guy for a day. Would you do it? Why wouldn't I? That'd be interesting. Would would be fascinating wouldn't anyone want to do it yeah i would do i would do it for

a day i'd be a woman for a day wouldn't want i'm only gonna having sex with me like that's where i draw the line i don't want to like it what are you gonna do what are you what are you curious to want to hear girls talk shit i I want to know guys are around. I want to hear what kind of things they say. Oh. Hmm. You know? Yeah.

When girls talk about sex or girls talk about work or girls talk about life. So you want to hear the girl talk? Yeah. I think it would be interesting for a little while. I'll probably get bored. Yeah. But maybe I wouldn't because I would be a girl. I just want to like know how much like I want to do pull-ups and stuff.

I want to run around and see what... That's hilarious. You want to know what it's like to be a gorilla. Well, I just want to know... If you were a guy for a day, you'd just be like... Time to smash. I want to see... That is the rarest...

Have you pulled women? What would you do if you were a man for a day? I don't know. It's like two fucking pull-ups and shit. That's hilarious. Well, it's true that you guys have more muscle. You want to smash. Smash things.

You want to punch a bag. Lift some fucking deadlifts and serious weight. It'd be interesting to see what is capable what that the capability would be because you could probably do more things oh yeah for sure yeah but i don't know what else i would be interested in doing i would i think it would be interesting to feel the difference in the hips like men and women have a totally different hip structure you know and that's one of the reasons why women have more

ACL injuries and it's also, it's difficult, more difficult for them to generate force like kicking. Yeah. Like if you watch

a really elite woman kick, even though you're carrying your body weight around versus a really elite man kick, there's a big difference in the amount of power that the men can generate. And I'm sure a lot of that has to do with testosterone. man kick, there's a big difference in the amount of power that the men can generate. And I'm sure a lot of that has to do with testosterone.

I'm sure there's a lot of variabilities. But when I talked to a kinesiologist, he was explaining to me that it's also the way the hips are structured. Because a woman's, especially if she has particularly wide hips, your bones angle in a different way, whereas a man's are straight. It's better for generating force interesting yeah i know i already said there was a ted talk about this but there was another ted talk a lot of cool shit they talk about a man who became a woman so they could say what is better

and worse being male and female how did he he do that? Like, it was... Trans. Yeah, exactly. And, like, the one thing that was being joked about is, like, the hair is the same, but now that I'm a woman, it's like $100 to cut my hair when it was only $10. So there were, I mean, that is interesting because they could say definitively what are the differences.

And that was one of them. You could, but you couldn't. Yeah. Because the chromosomes are different. There's a lot. It's like your perception and how you identify is different, but. Not necessarily. You can't get pregnant.

Yeah. You don't have a menstrual cycle. So not a physical sense but just like societal like how yeah you are i want to know what pms is like i want to know what that chaos is like because i've seen it before the fuck is happening i think you could recreate that just like don't like be hangry or something like no way it's like there's no way it's just hangry there's no fucking way there's no way hangry if it's just hangry then men are getting abused all across this country i think it i think with some women pms is it's pretty radical i think it varies wildly

you know i i would agree like yeah i'm sure everyone it's different yeah but i don't know if that's what you would want to experience oh yeah for sure I want to know how nutty it gets just feel what it feels like you know probably feels crazy to be pregnant too

walking around with a baby inside of you a little thing yeah growing inside your little person you know because having children as a man is an amazing thing. It's amazing. Probably my favorite thing about life. Legitimately. It's so strange.

Like every time I hug them, every time I talk to them, part of me is going, I can't believe you're real. Like you didn't exist and now you exist and now you're 10 and you and I are having a conversation about life and we're talking about things. Yeah. But they didn't come out of my body. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like I think for a woman it's like exponentially crazier because they, they literally developed inside of your body and they came out of you and now here they are. Yeah. That's gotta be crazy. I would like to know what that feels like. It must be nuts. Yeah. It must be nuts. I would agree. Yeah. You don't want that, huh?

I mean, I feel so passionate about these upcoming, like, adventures. Maybe after. But, yeah, my vision is so, like, and that, that it's hard for me to see that at least right now. I'm not one of those people that thinks everybody should have kids and not that I think some people shouldn't have kids. That's not what I mean. I mean, I used to get insulted by the idea that you couldn't live a fulfilled life without procreating. I was, I was always like, that seems like someone who's done something who thinks everybody should do something yeah like there's a thing that people do when they've done it like you're not even a man yet

unless you've had a kid and then you know you have kids like no that's not real does people really say that oh yeah people are crazy but they only say it because they kind of want to have a leg up on people who haven't done something they've done i see that you know what i mean yeah and also people are very um they think about their life in a very biased way in that the that's the only way to do it. You know, there's a lot of people that are really silly like that. Like they, no matter what they're doing, they think that this is, if you're not doing this, you're a fool or you're fucking up or you're missing something. Yeah. And there's a tremendous amount of pressure, I think more so on women to procreate than men.

Yeah. I mean, I definitely like am attached to my body like and what it can do. And I think that I mean, I have a lot of friends that are athletes and have had kids and I've seen how they have been able to like balance that, like kind of regaining their body and being able to incorporate fitness but I mean yeah I guess that would be one of my fears about it is just like having to let go of what my body is capable of but I by saying that I also think that there might be an even greater appreciation for my body because it's a human not an iron man like i'm pretty sure a human is a little bit more like but yeah from where i stand now it's like but will i be able to

run like so this is so these feats and these uh adventures are incredibly important to you obviously yeah i mean right now i i am very aware that things change and I am very cause and charity and like that is also a huge focus for me. But yeah, a big part of my identity is these challenges and a big part of where I get joy and excitement is around my body's ability to do these things. But I mean, I have had injuries enough to know that I am more than just running or. Yeah. And do you have an idea when you want to stop? Um. Are you a lifer? I might be a lifer. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I've been doing challenges for a decade now. I think that I've reached a limit in certain... And I think what might be exciting to go back to is trying to get more speed.

I've definitely lost speed and traded it for endurance and so after doing a few more I think it would be fun to kind of develop what I've put off because like training last year I didn't do any speed work it was all endurance it was basically like doing an ultra marathon every weekend and then recovering. And then like that's all you really. So is this the speed like a challenge that you haven't been addressing? Is that why it's itching at you? Well, you give up like I I feel like I'm too young to be saying I used to be that fast. Like I should be able to go fast.

But it's kind of like you pick your you pick your battle. Do you want to be fast or do you want to go fast, but it's kind of like you pick your battle. Do you want to be fast or do you want to go far? And some people can do both, but I think with my body, it's kind of like you choose. I mean, there's like fast twitch think it's very empowering to at least, like, most of my running is nine, ten-minute miles. That's pretty, like, I mean, that's a chill. I mean, I'm not, I can talk, everything, but still, like, I've been doing that pace so much

that it's really hard to do seven and eights anymore. And it'd be nice to feel that again by doing less. You seem like a person that will never find your limits. You're just always want to push. You always want to try to figure it out. Well, it's our body. Like, it has so many. So like... Yeah. No, it's cool. I like your attitude. I like the way you approach these things. It's very cool.

I mean, our bodies are really amazing. You made it all the way to the end without peeing too. Well, I thought about it for the last half hour. I'm sure you have. It's a challenge. Sometimes I can tell when people are kind of squirming a little bit and they got a look on their face and they're like, hmm, maybe not yet.

Hang in there. Hang in there. Could you tell?irming a little bit and they got to look in their face and they're like, hmm, maybe not yet. Hang in there. Hang in there. Could you tell? Yeah, a little bit. Was it? No, not bad. It's just most people would never be able to tell. But I'm just assuming around two hours-ish, two and a half, you get this big jug of water.

You're an athlete. I'm sure you drink a ton of water. I'm like, you got to be ready. You got any minute now. You picked talking about going to the bathroom too early. If you would have waited until the two-hour mark, I could have been like, oh, that reminds me. Good thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you made it, dude. You did it. So let us know what this challenge is, when you can spill the beans, and we'd be happy to help you there. Oh, that's so nice. And it was really cool talking to you. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, me too.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Bye, everybody.