The Joe Rogan Experience - #1644 - Ethan Suplee

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Ethan Suplee is an actor and host of the "American Glutton" podcast.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. So what's up, man? Dude, if I didn't know who you were and I ran into you, I would have no idea that you're the same guy. It's crazy. You're a fucking completely different human. Yeah. That you're the same guy. It's crazy. You're a fucking completely different human Yeah You went from this guy that looked like you were really in bad shape to a guy who looks like a guy out of void

In jujitsu. I'm like fuck that guy. Let me get away from him. He's too big you look fucking great. That's awesome This is the greatest compliment I've ever gotten. Thank you very much By the way, all I want is to look like a big dude who's not Just gigantic and fat. That's all I want to to look like a big dude who's not just gigantic and fat. That's all I want. Dude, you look like a gorilla. You look like a dangerous human being. How did you do it?

Well, over the past 20 years, I've gone back and forth with dieting. I've lost a shitload of weight. I've gained a shitload of weight back. How did I do it? I think that the thing that I've done that has been sustainable is undoing kind of, look, a lot of diets come in and say, just do this and you'll lose weight. But we're not focused at all on how we got to whatever point we were at that we consider non-optimal that we want to change. And so undoing the bad habits that I had that I would associate with allowing myself to get up to 550 pounds is really more important than anything that I could say, this is what I did to lose

weight. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. So when did the the process start so you kind of went back and forth but you've obviously been on a very steady course for how long now 20 years 19 years 2002 was the first time i thought i really want to change my life and i started. And how much weight have you lost since then? 2002, I went from 550. I did a liquid diet for two months and lost 80 pounds. That 80 pounds I've never dipped back into. But so I was 450 and I went down to close to just under 300, then went back up to 400, Close to just under 300, then went back up to 400, then went down to 200, then back up to 350. And for the past five years, I've been around the weight I'm at now. So I've really gotten that under control. And what are you at right now?

270. That is incredible. That is so incredible. so you've lost more than 200 pounds oh yeah yeah i mean i've solid i've lost 200 pounds a couple of times but you've also put on muscle like you're a different you're you're different all like you're unrecognizable yeah i think listen the other strange thing about weight loss is when you're building fat and you're storing fat, your body is naturally building lean tissue too just to support that fat. So under every obese person, there's a person with more than average muscle. Because they have to carry around all their weight.

Yeah, you're naturally building muscle just by like raising your heavier arm than the average. I used to always say that to all their weight. Yeah. You're naturally building muscle just by raising your heavier arm than the average. I used to always say that to Ralphie May. Yeah. Because Ralphie May was so heavy, and I was like, look at your legs, dude. I'd go, you'd be able to kick someone through a fucking wall if he just lost weight. Yeah. Just to be able to carry around. I have gnarly calves.

I bet you do, dude. That's one of the few things that I train sometimes with bodybuilders now. And my coach is a professional bodybuilder, Jared Feather. Shout out to him. And he has a lot of calf emphasis. And I'm like, I don't really need to do that, bro. My calves are good. Yeah, you carried around 500 pounds for years.

Yeah. Can you show me a photo of Ethan when he was at his heaviest so find me so has this affected your work because you know you were getting roles for so long as an actor when you were large yeah I think so yeah it has there was a time if we go back to like 2015 um and I had been really thin and and when I say really thin, I mean 200 pounds, but for me, that was extraordinarily thin. That's what I weigh, which is crazy. You're a lot bigger than me.

It's crazy to see. I thought I looked gaunt. God. Look at those two fucking pictures. If a girl broke up with you when you were on the left and then ran into you at the fucking airport when you were on the right. I mean, that is bonkers, man. Yeah. It's incredible.

Yeah. I mean, truly, truly incredible. That's my favorite picture and that's not even down lighting. I was an idiot and I'm not super thrilled with my hair and my head. And I wouldn't shave my head because I thought the hat looked better with a little bit of hair poking out. And then it got in the way of downlighting. So that's not even as good a picture as it could have been. Downlighting.

That's what everybody wants for abs. Yeah. They want downlighting. Yeah. See the guns. So your training regimen must be like pretty strict. Look at that fucking picture. That is so bananas, dude.

Yeah. What, what movies everyone remember the Titans? Wow. Yeah. That, that, that wasn't even the heaviest. That's not the heavy. I mean, I was probably close to 500 there, but no, that's, that's not even the heaviest. I don't know what to point to.

Like this picture down here is, I believe, after Remember the Titans and I'm certainly a little bit heavier. Yeah. Wow. When you look at that and you know how far you've come, I mean, it has to be incredibly satisfying. It's incredibly satisfying, but you know, look, the reality is that, um, I don't, I, I have mental illness and I can't, I don't look at myself and think like, God, I look great. I see nothing but negative stuff every day. And I try to convince myself. I try to find something that I'm happy with. Usually it's my traps. I can look at my traps cause it's lean. There's not a bunch of loose skin hanging there. They're not all scarred up from surgeries. And can look at my traps because it's lean. There's not a bunch of loose skin hanging there.

They're not all scarred up from surgeries. And I look at my trap and I go like, okay, that looks good. And based on that, I can then start to feel okay about myself. Looking at those pictures, you know, that's also a long time ago. And I just don't, I cannot relate to how I lived then. Wow. It's very bizarre. Now, when you say you have mental illness, meaning that you're aware of this, right? So you're aware you have a distorted perception of yourself. Yeah, very much so. And what do you think is, what's fueling that distorted perception? When I go back to like my childhood, I was put on a diet when I was five.

And prior to that, I had no sense of self. I existed and clearly I had fun and I played, but I was not aware of my body as a thing kind of, if it is external to me, as a separate component to me, or just as a thing itself, it just was. And at five, I was put on this diet and all these parts of me were pointed out as being super negative. And so I just- At five years old. Yeah. And I really really and by the way in fairness if you look at the average five-year-old today I wasn't like I wasn't obese at five I was a chubby five-year-old but I was super active and

I wasn't eating junk food all day long and you're growing in your body too yeah that's the thing about five-year-olds it's like i've seen kids that look kind of chubby and then you run into them a few years later like look at you you're a beanstalk yeah yes i have four kids myself and and you watch them they kind of go in different directions wide and then tall and yeah there isn't a set thing um but i i spent most of my life feeling wrong, like literally that I was wrong or bad, or there was some, some just super negative about myself. And so I still have to fight through that today. Like no matter what I've done, I, uh, 2012, um, I went and rode every stage of the tour de France or 2011 maybe just for just for fun And I could do that on a bicycle. That's not fucking easy That's thousands of miles on a bicycle in a very short period of time I was much thinner than I am now and I was miserable. I

Was not happy. Why were you miserable? I didn't like the way I looked I Still thought I was fat and I was 70 pounds lighter than I am now. So it's body dysmorphia. Yeah, something like that. But I think being aware of it, I can talk myself through it. It's not like I'm hung up on it every day, walking around, feeling like a piece of shit. Right. But I do catch certain glimpses of myself and feel bad and feel negative see this is the argument against fat shaming and i've always said that you know i've had more like i've never i've never i mean i i i've never been really overweight but i've been fatter than i am now i've had a belly i've had i got fat for a little bit but not but it's a joke

like I would you know I should be slapped for saying that right a couple pounds on you I mean yes I I don't think so whatever you want for yourself I think is what you should do but I looked at it and I was like oh fuck I gotta lose some weight And I went on this carnivore diet and I lost like 12 pounds. But the point is that that worked for me, but I'm not in this mental state where I'm constantly judging myself. And some people are, and it's not their fault. You know what determinism is? Sure. Yeah. Some people don't. There's an argument of free will versus determinism. And I think there's a real good argument for both. But the argument for determinism is you are who you are. I should explain this. The idea is determinism is essentially based on the idea that you are

a product of all of your life experiences. And the idea that you're responsible for everything you do at every step of the day, that's not entirely plausible. Because there's childhood trauma, there's life experiences, there's emotions, there's genetics, there's what you've had from all these life experiences that you've tried to assimilate. And those are different than my life experiences and everybody's are different. And who you are right now. Like someone said to me one day, and it was kind of a compliment. I can never do what you did,

what you do. Like, I can never do what you do. I go, you could, if you were me, right? It's not,

it's not like I'm not saying there's nothing special about me. I am just who i am because of my life experiences and my genetics and all the things i've done and you are who you are for all your life experiences and who you've done and to expect someone who has had bad input and bad emotional guidance and uh bad perceptions of their own physical health and their identity, to accept them to just get their shit together is ridiculous. It really is. But they can do it.

Some people can do it. You obviously did it. And that's probably the best piece of fuel and inspiration for anyone out there that's looking to get their life together physically metabolically healthy how what's the best be the best is someone who is at rock bottom who is 500 plus pounds and work their way back to like i said a guy would i would avoid in jujitsu class i mean it's really what it is like fuck that big guy get away from me dude yeah but that's what you did and i think um in that you can help so many fucking people but you are a gift in in so many ways because what you've done is so

extraordinary the accomplishment is so it's magnificent i mean it really is it's an amazing accomplishment not just because of your own personal health and what you've done and the way you look which is incredible incredible achievement but you you're a fuel man you're a rocket fuel for all these other people yeah because they look at you and go I can do that yeah I can do that if I just can they can yeah certainly I think um I think you had him on the show too. Robert Sapolsky makes a great argument for determinism. He does.

He's the guy who I read and I go, oh shit, I don't have free will. Right. But I think that as my perspective shifts, I do today feel as though I have free will. I have to battle through everything that makes me me still, but I can do that and I can win. There was certainly a point where the momentum was such in the other direction that I failed time and time again. And again, it kind of always came down to, I wasn't addressing how I arrived in the state I arrived at. I was addressing how do I lose weight, thinking that was the only piece of the puzzle that I was missing.

And so once I'd lose weight and I'd wake up and go, well, none of the habits that I had cultivated for decades to get me to this bad place or this place that I deem non-optimal have been addressed. And by not addressing them, they still exist. And now here I am repeating this cycle over and over and over again. Today, I have whatever version of free will I feel that I have, I feel very confident in decision-making because I can kind of work through these ideas.

But there was a long time where it is tough to have the attitude with somebody who's in the middle of it and just go like, just make a decision. It's a rough body is trying to trick you into sabotaging your progress. Yeah. Which is really one of the most fucked up things about the weight loss addiction, which makes it so much more difficult than I think most addictions is that you have to eat. Yeah. You don't have to gamble.

Right. Or do drugs. Right. But do you know anyone who's a gambling addict? Yes. It's really fascinating because it is to eat. Yeah. You don't have to gamble. Right. Or do drugs. Right. But do you know anyone who's a gambling addict? Yes. It's really fascinating because it is a drug. Yeah. But it's a weird drug.

It's a drug that your brain makes. Like I didn't know anyone who was a gambling addict until I started playing pool. And then I was hanging around this pool hall. When I was like 22, 23 years old, there's a place called White Plains Billiards in White Plains, New York. Executive Billiards, rather, in White Plains, New York. And Executive Billiards was a full-on degenerate pool hall. It was just guys that were gambling, a lot of guys who lived in flop houses. They always had like $10 for their name, and they would bet that $10, and then try to bum money off of people.

like $10 for their name, and they would bet that $10, and then try to bum money off of people. And it was as a young guy who came from sports, came from martial arts, and I was goal-oriented, and I was trying to be very disciplined in my life. To see these guys live like this, I was like, wow, this is crazy. I just enjoyed the game of pools. I was trying to learn this game, and these guys that were really into it were also degenerate gamblers and and almost all of them i mean to a man they were degenerate gamblers and to watch these people get jazzed up for gambling for bets they would bet on

anything man raindrops going down a window pane they would gamble on which drop like you see their eyes glaze over oh my god they just wanted that fix yes fuck yeah fuck yeah and they'd win i mean crazy they would gamble on cards they would roll dice they would do anything they would gamble on shots make a shot set a shot up they would give people crazy games but it is 100 a drug but it's a drug you can avoid. Just don't go to the pool hall. Talk to a counselor. It seems like an easier one to get away from, but the food one's crazy because you have to eat. You have to.

There was a time when, and it's so bizarre that it came out and they modeled it after Soylent Green, which ultimately turned out to be People at the end. Spoiler alert for anybody who hasn't seen that movie. It's from the 60s, right? It's a long time ago, yes. We haven't ruined anything, hopefully. But there's a Soylent drink, which is pretty bland,

but they have all, and they design it to like, here's my weight and height and activity level, and they give you these drinks, and you basically stop eating. And when I heard about that, I was like, fuck, because I'm sober, and I totally understand this kind of black and white, like when I'm doing something, I'm doing it 100%, whether that's eating cheeseburgers at 4 a.m. or scoring Coke and drinking a lot. If I can just give up food and drink this soylent shit for the rest of my life, maybe I'm solved. Maybe that's the key to me.

But, you know, I don't think that's even really a realistic thing to do. No, I don't think that's the key. I mean, I think it's a tool, you know, and you can use tools to kind of help you bridge gaps in between where you are and where you want to be. But, again, it's like, who are you? Are you – I mean, for some people that's not a good tool. For some people, that's not a good tool. For some people, it is.

It's that we have to come to grips with the fact that human beings are so different from each other. We're so similar and yet so different. And so much of your life experience and your genetics and all these different things determine who you are currently. And to say, just get on this Soylent drink for someone who just craves the flavors of food and you know action bronson was on the podcast recently and he's a chef yeah so for him yeah real tough but he also had a son and when he had a kid and he realized he was ridiculously

overweight and sedentary and wasn't doing anything and now he's a fucking beast that guy trains so hard he trains every day one of the first things he did when he booked the show out here he said and wasn't doing anything, and now he's a fucking beast. That guy trains so hard. He trains every day. One of the first things he did when he booked the show out here, he said, hey, I need a gym to go to. I said, go to my gym, Onnit Gyms, just down the street. It's a little bit away from here. We'll set you up.

We'll get you a trainer. I've worked out with him. He fucking works out hard, man. He goes after it. He really does. I was really impressed. I worry sometimes for some people that trading or trying to handle being obese with exercise, for me, that's a scary proposition because I've done that.

And the minute that you miss a workout or miss a few or you hurt yourself, if you haven't adjusted your food, you're gaining weight. So I really do. I train every day. I take a day off a week, but, but, and it's very important to me to get into the gym, but I do that because it makes me feel better. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Um, I guess I do it for fitness and I guess I do it for health. I do it for all those things, for sure. But I really do it for my head. Yeah, me too. And I feel, you know, I'm a broken record.

People don't even know what a broken record is anymore, these fucking kids today. They don't. A broken MP3. Have you ever heard a broken record? You ever heard a record skipped, you fucking young Jamie? But the message is really clear. People out there that are not exercising, you're doing your brain a disservice more than anything. I know it sucks. I know you don't want to do it. But if you can do it, it'll relieve so much anxiety. When I talk to people

that are on anti-anxiety medication or SSRIs and all these different things, my first question is always do you exercise? And they'll look at you like you're talking to a cancer patient, like, how'd you do this? How'd you get there? Why do you have cancer, man? I'm just saying, listen, if you exercise, I guarantee you feel it might not fix everything, but it'll fix a lot for a lot of people. Yeah. And for me, it started with just taking a walk. Like when I couldn't, when the idea of exercise was insurmountable, just how far can I walk? And then can I walk a little further the next day? And then can I beat that? You know, and I'm saying like, when I'm used to just walking to my car from my front door,

can I walk past my car? Literally, if that's it, at 550 pounds, it might be that small. Right. Literally, if that's it, at 550 pounds, it might be that small. Right. But if you go into it with the attitude of setting goals and you see that you can achieve this goal and then you can beat it and you can go a little further, I wouldn't use that to address weight loss. But just to feel that you can accomplish something with your body is a big deal. Just to feel that you can accomplish something with your body is a big deal. There was a lady that I used to yoga with, and I watched her lose about 100 pounds in a year.

Wow. It was incredible. And I remember I brought it up to her, and I was trying to figure out how to bring it up to her, because I could tell she got super uncomfortable. And I was like, shit. I'm trying to be nice here, but I'm addressing the fact that she was gigantic and now she's just big right um and I said I don't I don't remember what I said but it's something along the lines of I think your um your consistency is incredibly inspirational I said I think it's awesome you're in here all the time but I mean by saying that I'm saying you're acknowledging yeah

I'm acknowledging that there's an issue you know. And that makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable. They'd rather just be invisible. Yeah. But I had to. I spent the majority of my life trying to be invisible, trying to- I wore shirts at the beach, which made me feel like I was covered up. I mean, you look at the white fucking shirt with water. It's a wet T-shirt.

You can see through it. It's not hiding anything. Right. But it made me feel less present. I have terrible posture simply because I try to be smaller, right? And now, like, you call me a gorilla, it makes me feel good. When I was 500 pounds, had you called me a gorilla, I would have been like oh my god this is

awful you know yeah gorillas are big yeah and it's just a weird thing but I think um you know I think it's nice to acknowledge people when you see something and god what a what a wonderful way you did that by just saying her consistency like you're acknowledging everything you're not pointing out to her that there was anything wrong with her. You're simply stating like you admire what she's doing. That's a nice, that's a, I think that's a kind way to acknowledge somebody. I was trying, I was trying to be kind and I was being really honest. She really is impressive. And you know, it was just, it's amazing to watch someone just decide at some point in time, enough is enough. I'm going to do something. And that lady was in there every day.

And I wasn't in there every day. I was only going to yoga a couple of days a week. And I'd go in there. I'm like, again, you're here again. She was such a nice lady too. And then the instructor said, how much have you lost so far? And I think she was at that time, she was closing in on a hundred pounds, which was amazing. But you know, you could see the consistency was changing like her practice, like for the beginning of the year versus the end of the year. She was deeper into poses. She could hold things longer. And this is hot yoga too, which is rough stuff.

It's 105 degrees. I've done all forms of exercise, indoor exercise. The only time I thought I was going to potentially die was hot yoga. And the teacher said, we have one rule here. You cannot leave. If you can't do anything, you just lay down. And I laid down and thought, I'm going to lay here and die because I'm too scared to tell this teacher to go fuck herself because I'm not allowed to leave. And she said, we locked the door. I'll kick a fucking hole through the door. I laid there for

the rest of the class with my heart rate jacked up and thought like, I can't believe I'm going to allow myself to die in this sauna because this chick has a rule. Yeah. But that rule is good for your head. It's not good for everybody. You really should have ice cold water. I bring a gigantic hydro flask, like a 64 ounce hydro flask, and it's mostly ice and water. Yeah.

You know, like mostly ice and then water because it's going to melt during the class. Right. And I was like always trying to find the right level of ice and water. Yeah. You know, like mostly ice and then water because it's going to melt during the class. Right. And I was like always trying to find the right level of ice to water. So the end of the class had a little bit of ice but not much. But there's something about that too. There's a study they're doing right now. I believe it's at Harvard where they're trying to figure out whether or not hot yoga mimics the same sort of effects in terms of heat shock proteins that sauna does.

Right. Because sauna is insanely beneficial for you. But one thing it definitely does is it tests your brain in a unique way because you want to get out of there because you want relief. But if you could talk yourself into not getting that relief until the end, you've got a victory. It's a victory for the day. My victory was simply that I didn't die. And I was really convinced I was going to die.

You only did it once? I did it one time. And I did it after spinning class. It was a very stupid move. Jesus Christ. That's crazy. Yeah. It was not smart.

Wow. That's a risky move. Spinning class is fucking hard. Yeah. Period. Yeah. It was not smart. Wow. That's a risky move. Spinning class is fucking hard. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And then to go yoga after spinning class, that's preposterous. It was awful.

I used to do, well, there's a couple of times I did it and I said, I can't do this anymore. I'm getting mauled. I would go yoga in the morning, then jujitsu at night. Yeah. I would just get mauled. Yeah. I just, I'm so tired of getting my ass kicked. Cause I would be at like legit 60

of what i'm capable i was like oh i have no pop no explosiveness my body's just so tired my body's like what are you doing stupid like you just killed me five hours ago and now you're doing this you're in here doing this this thing that can kill you also it's so good for your fucking head though that's how I feel about sauna too. One of the things that I like most about sauna is that I don't like it. I don't like the last five minutes are so hard. Yeah.

You know, it's just, it's fucking, it's so rough because you're sitting there and it's every impulse you have is to get the fuck out of there. The door's right there. Like what's wrong with you? Open that door and you go, ah, cool, jump get the fuck out of there. The door is right there. Like, what's wrong with you? Open that door and you go, ah, cool, jump in the shower, cold water, let's get free. Nope, stay.

You have a timer. I think that that is the thing that I like about exercise because sometimes the night before I'm looking forward to it, like I'm going to go to the gym tomorrow, first thing I'm going to feel better. The morning of, I'm never super amped up to get to the gym and start working out. And there's always a little bit of struggle there. It's never something I'm close to losing the struggle on nowadays, but making it through is a big deal for me. And the fact that I put, and when I string together a succession of making it through, the momentum carries me a long way. Any day that I miss it and I lose that fight, it's like a massive swing in the opposite direction.

Psychologically. Yeah. Yeah, I feel that way too. I always am less enthusiastic about getting to a place where I have to work out with other people. Yeah. Which is weird. It's like, that's the one where all of my bitch ass instincts are like, stay home.

Stop it. Don't you, does your back hurt or something? Yeah. How'd you feeling tired today? You know, like, and people say, Oh, you know, you work out so hard. You must be really disciplined. I'm like, I'm kind of disciplined, but I'm kind of lazy. Like I'm like the most lazy disciplined person you'll ever meet because i always do it yeah but i always don't want to but i always do it you know i i'm very consistent in my actions but there's

part of me like and david goggins said that about uh himself he was like people think that it's easy for me he goes sometimes I look at my shoes, I stare at those motherfuckers for a half hour before I put them on. He's amazing. He's fucking amazing. He's a monster. I hope that people are watching him and going, if I need to use him just to walk to the bathroom,

that's what I should use him for. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't all have to be ultra marathons. Right, right, right. Anything, anything. Walk around the block, anything, anything. Get work done that you need to get done. Don't just sit in your house. Sitting in your house and being lethargic is so fucking bad for you.'s something about like nature or genetics or what would whatever our code is that when you're doing literally nothing just laying around doing nothing your body's like what the fuck is the point like what are we here for and what people don't recognize is like when you're laying

around just watching television and then you shut the TV off and you feel like shit like you're you were artificially stimulated for hours and hours just staring at things happening while you did nothing. And then when you shut it off, the reality of your actual day sets in like, Oh my God, I've done nothing. But I thought I was doing something.

I thought it was, I was in a fucking Aston Martin being chased cause I was James Bond and the guys are shooting. But no, you really weren't doing anything. But you're getting this weird fake stimulation. It's so bad for you. I'm not saying it's bad for you all the time.

It's great when you've accomplished things and you feel good and you want to just enjoy something, give yourself a little reward. And I'm a firm believer in rewards. But man, when I waste a day, I feel like such a fucking loser. It's awful. It's awful for me too. a day i feel like such a fucking loser it's it's awful it's awful for me too um we arrive at a day in age where you can be a professional video game player you can have all your food left on your doorstep um have you watched television recently yeah i i hadn't watched

television just like network television in years oh no, no, I don't watch that. You put it on, the commercials are all medication and food. Oh, yeah, that's right. It's fucking crazy. The medication commercials freak me out. Yeah, and there's so many. Talk to your doctor. There were these problems that existed that have medicines now. Shit you never heard of.

It seems unethical, and it seems weird that it's allowed like for sure you know we're only one of two countries on planet earth that allows that i didn't know that what's the other country new zealand wow united states new zealand's doing way better than us by the way i think they're brushing it off a little easier but it just seems wrong like your doctor should be the one telling you if you need fucking medication and you should go to your doctor because psychosomatic disorders are real, you know? And also this idea that watching something on television

in a commercial and you're like, oh, I have all those problems. Real simple, real clean. Talk to your doctor. Oh, I'm going to go talk to my doctor about this. Like what about hypochondriacs, man? What about crazy people? Like you're just fucking their head up all day long, which is a real problem with people. If you,

if you say to people, if you plant those seeds in their head, do you have this? Do you have that? Is this wrong? Do you feel bad about this? You're like, Oh, do I? I mean, maybe I do. We're, we're so malleable, you you know that to influence us with drugs and then they hit you with side effects may include and then they may include what if they definitely included there's almost always colitis and rectal bleeding and that's the one that I just go like

who the fuck wants to that's not a trade-off and the thing is it's like may include is weird because what if it said always include like take this and this is definitely going to happen. You'd be like, I'm not taking that. Yeah. It might happen, but it might not.

Maybe you'll feel better. Maybe your toes won't hurt. You're like, oh, Jesus. Psychosis and colitis are the two where I just go like any problem I have, I'll just fix it with nutrition before I try this drug. Good for you. Good for you. That's what I'll try.

But here's the thing. I'm kind of full of shit because I watch those commercials. fix it with nutrition before I tried it. This is good for you. Good for you. But here's the thing. I like, I'm kind of full of shit because I watched those commercials. They don't do shit to me. Right. I watched those commercials and I, you know, I can see some girl spinning around in the field, you know,

fields of wheat and flowers. I don't think I need to get on birth control. It's like whatever she's on. It's not. So I'm kind of full of shit because it doesn't affect me. So why am I upset about it? Why do I give a shit? Yeah.

Because this is the problem that I have with a lot of things that people are very upset about today. Like, whether it's conspiracy theories or whatever it is, there's people out there that want to protect other people from bullshit and i kind of i get it i get where they're coming from but why doesn't it bother me like i think though i think though that you know and i think i know what you're talking about i think we've come to another point where there's an assumption that we all have the exact same set of values. And like when I hear people say, I'm siding with science, my first instinct is to ask when science developed a set of values or morals, because there's no scientific moral code. That doesn't exist. If you want to place some value on a scientific outcome, that's a human point of view. It's an opinion that forces that scientific outcome into a value system. And so if you sit

back and you assume that everybody innately has the exact same set of values, then yeah, we can have these arguments based on science, not science. But if people don't necessarily have the same value system that you have, why would we want all this? This is where I get into people who want to protect other people. And it's like, well, you're just assuming that all the things that you want are the things that they should want. And when I hear what people should want, I go like, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Right now, it's slightly difficult to talk about weight loss because I've been obese and now I'm not obese and I celebrate not being obese. I am much better off with the way I have structured my life because of having lost weight.

But I can't tell anybody else to do that. And I don't even really want to. If somebody wants to be overweight, if that's a trade-off they're willing to make, that's fine with me. But I think for the most part, most of the people I've spoken to, they don't want that. A lot of people seem to have goals that generally line up with mine. And then in talking to them, now there's this diet culture monster in the room where even that is attacked because there's a whole new set of values that are born that must be enforced. And at some point, there's got to be the recognition that we don't all

necessarily have to want the exact same stuff. Yeah. There's also so much biological variability, right? Yeah. The things that would work on another person just don't work on you. Sure. Yeah. Including diet. Oh, man. Arguing about diets is another great one. And this – I really like talking about diets simply because there's – at the end of the day, it's so much safer than politics because there's no military backing up a diet system. But you talk about politics and it's like we have a fucking military to force you to do the shit we want you to do versus the other military that's going to force you the other way. But diets, it's like veganism versus carnivore. If we're just talking about weight loss, the other thing, some of these things get into like the minutia of health. If you've got a guy who's got 200 pounds to lose, why are we focusing on the minutia of health? I don't know that that's the right goal.

If the goal is just weight loss, I don't think these are the same conversations. Yeah. I think, I mean, I think there's so many different things that need to happen to a person to force them into action. What do you think is the key things is it is it inspiration is is motivation is sometimes is it that you don't want to die or you don't want to be sick any longer that you're fed up or is it being inspired by a guy like david goggins or cameron haynes or someone like that for for me for the very first time in my life, I was thinking about the future in a way in terms of what I wanted out of life versus just like what makes me happy right this second. And I was seeing a girl who I'm now married to. We have a bunch of kids and I couldn't have a better life. Like 20 years ago, if I described to you the life I wanted in that moment, I've

way surpassed that. That's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah. I like, I have to take a step back occasionally and go check you out. Look what you did. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. 500 pounds. I was not thinking I can be a dad. I can be a husband. I could teach I was not thinking I can be a dad. I can be a husband. I could teach little kids how to do stuff like this was not part of my, I can't, I could take my wife on a hike. I could go to the beach with her and not, you know, sit under a towel in the back. Cause I'm scared of people looking at me. These were not the thoughts I was having. So that spark of motivation of like what do i want out of life got me just so far because after an extreme diet when you've crashed your metabolism and you then and by the way your body is fighting against you tooth and nail doing these things because this is your body

thinks you're starving to death right you know and it's trying to slow everything down slowing everything down um over long periods you're not just consuming fat you're consuming fat and lean tissue like it's fucking tough all your hormones are fucked up you're you're uh i forget the name of the hormone there's a hormone that makes you hungry this is skyrocketing when you're on an extremely caloric deficit diet. And so then you go to like just eating like a normal person and you're watching what other people eat and you're eating this and you're fucking putting on weight again, like at a rapid pace and going like, this doesn't make sense. I thought I was cured. I lost all this weight. I watched a really fascinating TED talk by a guy named Mike Israetel about five years ago four or

five years ago and in it and I had tried I was dead convinced that I was allergic to carbohydrates and so I was like I'll never eat a carbohydrate for the rest of my life you thought you were allergic to carbohydrates I was convinced that everybody, that everybody was gluten intolerant, that the way that we made bread in America with all the ingredients was just poisonous to the human body. I was totally convinced of this. And I watched this TED Talk by Mike Israetel and in it, it's called The Dietary Landscape of Healthy Eating. And he just goes over like, just be moderate. That's it. Just like try to figure out moderation.

Nothing's poisonous. Nothing's awful. Like salt. If you have no salt, you can die. If you're, if sodium disappears from your diet, you can die. If you have too much salt, it can kill you. Like there's an amount, five grams, I think at one time, and this was, I believe this study was done on small bodies, can kill you. It can be fatal. So is that poisonous or is it necessary? It's both. This is food for me. Like the way I was interacting with food, the idea that I'm a machine, like you're a car guy.

You're not going to put diesel fuel in your gas car. You're not going to do that because it's going to break it. And, and I had to start really thinking about food in these terms and going like, I just have a bad relationship with food, a relationship that is giving me an outcome I don't want. How do I change that? Like utterly, um, the first carbohydrates I ate after 15 years, basically of being convinced that I was allergic to them I was fucking terrified that it was going to be like cocaine and I was not going to be able to stop myself to sit there with a bowl of rice that's crazy lo and behold rice or pasta without a bunch of oil and cheese is not fun enough to sit there and eat it like that for me.

Maybe it is for somebody, but I couldn't do it. I got my cup of rice down and I was like, holy shit, I'm okay. I don't have to eat another cup. I don't have to eat the whole bag of rice. This was like night and day for me because for a long time, I tried to address myself with the diet and and now I Think diet is the most important aspect, but the other definition of diet not restrictive just how you eat Yeah

For Performance most people believe that carbohydrates are essential for peak performance. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people. Even the carnivore ultramarathon guys, right? Exactly. Zach Bitter. Yeah, Zach who holds the world record for the fastest 100 miles run. He ran 100 miles and I believe it was 11 hours and 40 minutes or some shit like that. Zach's a freak.

I mean, he's a savage. And he takes in quite a bit of glucose while he's running he uses glucose gels he does a bunch of different things but for the most part he eats

an animal based diet yeah but this is him I know there's other people that are doing it that are eating mostly pasta

and they they can do that too I think at the end of the day if you're if you're a guy who the idea of giving up carbohydrates if you need to lose if you're a guy who the idea of giving up carbohydrates,

if you need to lose a shitload of weight and the idea of giving up carbohydrates, if you can't really see that as a long-term thing, fucking don't. Right. Don't do it. What seems to work best for me, I've tried a bunch of different ways of eating. What seems to work best for me is meat and fish and vegetables. eating what seems to work best for me is meat and fish and vegetables when i eat mostly just meat and fish and and generally like salad or maybe sauteed broccoli or some sauteed broccolini or something like that those things to me it seems like i have zero issues with food when i when i go

off the rails it's pasta yeah i'm a fucking glutton, dude. But it's not just pasta, right? It's pasta with lots of sauce, cheese, it's creams. Lots of sauce. Yes. Keep talking. Let me take my pants off. Sausage. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. I just can't stop eating it, man. I mean, I could eat a full steak, like a 16 ounce ribeye. And then if there's a bowl of pasta right next to it, I'll keep going. But if I just have the steak, I'm fine. Steak and a salad, I'm good.

I'm done eating. I'm satisfied. But if that pasta's there, I'm like, oh, oh. And then my stomach will stick out. I'll be in pain. I'll be like, oh. It sticks out my sides. And I look at myself in the mirror.

I'm like, you fucking slob. Like, what have you done to your body? Because you forced your body to eat this glue, you know? Because when you chew it down, it's just paste. It's just like fucking bowl of paste you've stuffed in your sack. I try to eat some pasta. Pasta is like the least of it. And I hate it without a ton of olive oil or parmesan cheese

it's not fun so it's not one of my go-tos but i do have pasta or rice or whole grain bread or potatoes every day a little bit but for the most part that's my diet it's it's lean protein and vegetables i seem to have very little uh problem with rice when i have rice everything seems good you know it doesn't doesn't mean me it me full, but I don't feel like shit. Yeah. You know, like rice seems to be no issue for me, particularly white rice. I was shocked when I found out that brown rice is actually not as good for you as white rice is.

Hard to digest, yeah. And you're like, what? How's that possible? No, we were lied to as children. They lied to us. Well, it just seems like you're, you seems like you're eating something whole grain, man. Yeah. It's like lick, man.

Dude, when gluten-free bread was invented, because this happened in the midst of me becoming gluten-free, and it was like a few years into it that suddenly it was like, there's a cookie shop, there's a bakery in West Hollywood that does gluten-free pastries and then i was just like oh my god they're speaking to me and i go there every day and i would eat muffins and cakes and shit and i'd go it's gluten-free and i would gain weight and i'd be like what the fuck is the problem sugar there was no point that i was ever like it's gluten for me has nothing to do with it now if you have celiacs or ha Hachimoto's or something where gluten can mess with you, yeah, don't eat it.

But, you know, there's so many trendy diets that come out and it's like you have a group of people that has failed so many times that they're desperate to just tell me the right thing to do. Just sell me that. Tell me gluten. Tell me I'm allergic to do yeah just sell me that it tell me gluten tell me i'm allergic to gluten and i'll give it up and if that will do it you know you know what actually has low gluten but is fucking delicious is sourdough bread yeah which is crazy which is kind of the best tasting bread i love it my buddy tom papa makes sourdough bread and whenever he comes

over he brings me some jesus we make a deal like i give him elk meat he gives me sourdough bread and whenever he comes over he brings me some jesus we make a deal like i give him elk meat he gives me sourdough bread his fucking sourdough bread is so goddamn good yeah you put butter on it just the sourdough bread and butter like ah or i'll put nutella on it if i really want to go off the rails it's so good it's so good but sourdough bread something about the starter and something about the way you know there's the yeast in the bread. I think the gluten consumes itself and then it becomes molecularly something else before you bake it. When it's an actual fermented bread. Right.

And it's more delicious, which is crazy. It's so good. And then we have Wonder Bread that has 31 ingredients. And it's also good with bologna and American cheese, but like it probably has a shitload more calories. And what do you want from your body? Like at the end of the day, what do you want from the food you're eating? Is it just entertainment? Because I like to be entertained by food.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I like to go to a place and see a fancy thing that's got all the fucking oil and shit on it. I like that. That's fun. A peanut butter and jelly sandwich with Wonder Bread, not bad. Fucking incredible, dude. Incredible.

When I was a kid, we used to use Wonder Bread for fishing. Yeah. We used to catch carp with it. Because you take Wonder Bread. We used to buy our loaf of Wonder Bread and we would roll up the Wonder Bread, the little balls, and put it on a hook and toss it out, and the carp would get it. Yeah. It was the best bait for carp.

I mean, it's either that or, like, worm guts. You know, that's not the most discerning fish, I think, at that point. Carps? Yeah. Carps is an odd fish. They, you know, they're really not supposed to be here. They're, like, it's not native're really not supposed to be here. It's not native to a lot of places around here.

Have you ever seen those people where they're driving boats and the carp fly out of the water and hit them in the head? Yes. It's Asian carp. Yes. It's like for whatever reason, when boats come by, they want to fly through the air and slam into the people that are riding the boats. It's incredible. It's the weirdest thing, man. People have been knocked out. Yeah. Like bam get hit by a fish it's a wonder that those fish are still around that they haven't just evolved extinct there's so many of

them that's the thing they're so prolific they're a real problem because they're they're one of the weirder invasive species like i don't know how they got over here but there's some lakes and river systems that are just choked with these. I think they're Asian carp. I think that's what it is because there's that big red carp that I grew up. I lived in Newton, Massachusetts, and I lived right across the street from the Charles River. And the Charles River had this waterfall like down the street from my house. And I remember being there one day.

Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. You ever ever seen this i never saw it that crazy they're nuts that's like a mosh pit of car yeah they don't no one no one knows why they do it or i don't know why they do maybe someone does but yeah when you're when you're driving by they just go flying out of the water and hit people and sometimes they just do it here like they're just doing it on their own and they land in the boats but I don't think they're necessarily good to eat right but obviously there's fucking way too many of them so people need to eat them yeah so I go to are they edible Asian carp edible this video they do what they are making it says the highest population is in the Illinois River.

It doesn't say why. I'm sure the video does. But, yeah, they're making, like, fish, all sorts of stuff with it. What are they doing? Jesus. Oh, they make, like, carp balls. Look at all the bones in that. Yeah, so probably what they're doing is putting it with dough and like a crab cake type deal.

Yeah, I was going to say it was a crab cake, but I was like, wait, it's fish. What is she saying? She's going to lie. Oh, delicious. You're putting a bunch of other shit on it, right? It's not like a piece of red fish. You just have to grill with some salt and butter. Right.

We have to add shit to our food. When I got to this waterfall down the street from my house, it was just choked with carp. Like 30, 40, 50 carp just on the surface of the water. I'm like, this is nuts. But it's really because they're not supposed to be there. There's supposed to be an ecosystem, right? There's big fish. The big fish kill the medium fish. It's like there's a whole thing going on.

In this place, there was not that thing going on. They were just carp. And they're big, there was not that thing going on. They were just carp. And they're big, big fucking 30, 40-pound carp. Like some of them were this big just floating around like, what the fuck? And then, you know, you realize like someone released them in. And there's like in Lake Austin out here, there's a grass carp that I was just talking to a guy who's a fisherman who was telling me that it's a real problem on the lake because the grass carp have eaten all the grass. So now the fish don't have

cover, like the bass, they want to hide so they can jump out and snatch up the other fish, but there's no place to hide. So now they're like, what the fuck? So they're going to go and it'll be just grass carp at some point. Maybe, could be. But he said it's a real issue because the bottom of the lake has no vegetation anymore. It's all been eaten by these carp. And you see the carp occasionally. Big fat suckers just belly up floating in the river and you're like, whoa. I mean, listen, there's got to be a healthy way to use those carp. Well, you know what?

Someone was just saying this, and it's a really good point, that invasive species, if you just found a way to make it profitable to go after those invasive species, that's the solution that they're trying to come up with with the python in Florida. Because pythons are overrun in the Everglades. They're so bad in the Everglades that they've killed most of the mammal species and they've started to eat alligators. Jesus Christ, really? Crazy. There's a photo of this guy came upon, I think it was a 12-foot alligator being consumed by a python. That's how big they are. They killed all the deer.

They've killed all the raccoons, all the rabbits. Anything that's on the ground is fucked by these pythons. But meanwhile, commercially, python skin is illegal in California, as if they're endangered. Right. They're not endangered at all. California is so nuts. So you couldn't ship python skin from Florida to California? No, you cannot buy python goods from somewhere else and bring them to California.

You're like, no, man. We just didn't believe in that. It's so dumb. It's like they're not endangered, not even a little. Right. And the idea that this fucking sleazy reptile, like this evil fuck that would swallow a baby in a heartbeat, like that's what we're protecting?

Yeah. But yet you can buy wool? Right. Lambs, you can just walk up to a lamb pet and they're sweet. They're so nice. If they did a python farm, you couldn't do that because they're endangered? They're not endangered. Right.

I mean, in California. It's just exotic. They call it exotic. Right. And then you can't get exotic. They're trying to make, I believe they might have made it recently illegal to bring an alligator, which is more preposterous. Because there's places in Louisiana and Florida that are infested with alligators. might have made it recently illegal to bring an alligator, which is more preposterous. Because there's places in Louisiana and Florida that are infested with alligators.

So much so, have you ever watched that Swamp People show? Yeah. One of the guys on that show was talking about the tags, like the allocations of tags that means how many alligators you could kill per season. He's a commercial alligator. 500. They were giving him 500 alligators he could kill. That means there's so many alligators you could kill per season. He's a commercial alligator. 500. They were giving him 500 alligators he could kill. That means there's so many alligators. Yeah, that's insane.

Because when I was a kid, I lived in Florida for a little bit. We lived in Gainesville, Florida, and it was right near Lake Alice. And Lake Alice had alligators, but they were endangered at the time. Because I guess people hunted them to the point where they had gotten down to very low numbers, and they were trying to save the alligators. But they fucked up and saved them too much. And now they're just overrun. They just show up on golf courses.

They're walking through people's backyards. All they got to do is eat one little kid. But they don't. That's not true. They ate a little kid in Orlando. Did they? At Disney World. They grabbed a little kid at the theme park?

A baby came out of the fucking pond at disney world and snatched up a baby wow bro that's crazy that's the thing you can't keep them out of lakes there's so many of them they find they slither in the middle of the night you don't even know they're there like they'll walk a few hundred yards you didn't know they were in the woods and then they walk a few hundred yards they slide into the lake, and they feel like little feet walking by the water, and they just jumped out and snatched up this baby. Can they make the jump to salt water like crocodiles or no? I don't know. That's a good question.

I mean, if they started to mess with the beaches, that might get them shut down. I don't know. People are weird. When we decide that something needs to be protected they're like we have to protect it man we have to protect it forever and ever and ever we never let it go like that's they're dealing with that with wolves in some places like they reintroduce wolves into yellowstone in the 1990s and they spread through idaho and all these different areas and they've gotten to the point now where I think it was in Idaho.

They just decided that they have to kill all the wolves except for like a small number of them. They have to get them down to like a few hundred wolves because there's so many fucking wolves. They're like decimating the elk populations and they're encroaching into people's ranches and killing steers. But they were endangered at some point. Yeah. Yeah. ranches and killing steers and but they were endangered at some point yeah yeah well they

they poisoned them to the point where um at the turn of the century they were virtually extinct and then they had to go to canada and bring wolves from canada and then repopulate yellowstone but isn't there a point where they can say scientifically we have determined that they are no longer virtually extinct and scientifically that means some are on limits to hunt oh ethan you're talking logically you can't do that with my friend steve rinella what he calls um uh what does it go uh charismatic megafauna and that's what wolves are they're charismatic there's something about wolves oh they're cute they're cuddly well they're majestic man i mean i don't want wolves to go away. Wolves are fucking amazing. I've only seen one once in the wild and

it was really, it was in Canada. It was real blurry. It was at dusk. I saw this like dog-like thing run across the road. Like, oh shit, that's a wolf. Right. And they have a lot of them up there. I can't think of a single animal I want to go away. But when an animal like, like pigs in this state. Oh yeah. There's a like like pigs and in this state oh yeah there's a lot of pigs and people have a lot of feelings about the way the pigs are hunted but there's a lot of fucking pigs they don't have any feelings about the way the pigs are hunted in texas the texans don't they don't give a california feels a lot of ways about the way pigs are actually texas they like no save them with the pythons and put them all in a happy family right

they're one generation away from being wilbur just domesticate all the pigs you know that is the truth that's what's weird about them yeah what's weird about pigs is that if you took a regular pig like a domestic pig and you let it loose within i think five or six weeks they start to transform into those boars with the hair and the tusks. That's what's crazy is they're the same animal It's it's all one genus It's called sous scrofa and all of them are the same domestic pigs are just wild pigs that have been domesticated Like if you take a domestic pig they look all pink and white and you let them go their snout Elongates their tusks lengthen, and it happens quick. Right.

Like, do you ever heard of Hogzilla? Yes. Yeah. The gigantic one. Yes. Yes. Hogzilla is, there's a lot of thoughts on Hogzilla. It's a super controversial animal because a lot of people think it's a perspective trick.

But there are thousand pound pigs out there. There's definitely thousand pound domestic pigs, I believe. Well, let's find out. What's the largest domestic pig ever recorded? I'm going to guess it's over 1,000 pounds. What do you think? 1,200? Yeah, that sounds about right.

What are you guessing, Jamie? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Ah, what the fuck are you doing? You going crazy? Look at you. You're reckless. We went way too big for him. He got reckless. Knocking over mic stands and shit. I just got a chance to see the number, though. Look at you. You're reckless. We went way too big for him. He got reckless, knocking over Mike's hands and shit. I just got a chance to see the number, though, so I have a number in my head that's-

What was the number in your head? I don't know. I didn't have one yet. Oh, okay. I didn't get a chance to think of it. You didn't ask me it. I wasn't thinking. What's the real number?

It said over 1,000, but this Wikipedia says weight was 794. I don't understand. It says hogzilla weighed over 1,000 pounds, but then- But Wikipedia says the largest domestic pig is 794. I don't understand. It says hogzilla weighed over a thousand pounds. But Wikipedia says the largest domestic pig is 794 pounds? Hogzilla was feral, right? Yeah. Yeah. See, what they think though is that hogzilla

was one of those domestic pigs that broke so it fattened up and then broke through fencing and then went out and started the transformation. So once pigs fend for themselves, it's so weird. Like a switch goes off in their brain and their fur gets thicker and denser. Like they change. The same exact animal changes and it's really quickly.

All right. What were the guesses? I said 1,000. I said 1,200. I'm way,000. I said 1,200. I'm way off, apparently. Big Bill from Jackson, Tennessee in 1933 was a Poland-China breed of hog that tipped the scales at 2,552 pounds. What? You have a picture of Big Bill? I was going to look.

I doubt it, maybe. That's a big fucking pig. That's a big fucking pig. Yeah. Let me see Big Bill. What the fuck? Wow. What the fuck what the fuck yeah oh my god that thing just must have no life just constant food that was 1908 1933 i think oh 33 yeah yeah and so if a pig that size gets out has access to food yeah it's going to go feral. Yeah.

And that's what, again, this is my friend Steven Ronell, who's a legitimate wildlife expert. Pull up Hogzilla. Pull up a photo of Hogzilla. Yeah. See, there's Hogzilla. See that photo right there? Yeah, that's a good one.

But the one hanging from the legs, like right there, yeah. See, that's a bit of a perspective trick because i think the pig is several it's like if you catch a big bass you do this you hold it in front of you with your arms extended and it makes it look bigger but even this pig going into the dumpster that's a fucking legit giant pig man i don't give a fuck. That's a legit giant pig. Look how little his feet are. Imagine that was a man. That's in Hong Kong, too. Little girl feet and giant body.

Look at the size of his feet. That's so weird. Hogzilla, though. You want to go to that photo again? Whoa. Fuck that. In someone's yard. Alabama. That's in someone's yard. Look at the size of that thing. That looks like one of those giant cows. Look at his balls.

That sucks, yeah. Holy fuck. And Tom thinks he comes a lot? Imagine what that pig does. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. I can't believe how big that thing is, that guy's yard. That's hard to tell.

That might be little. That's a sow, too. But the other one was enormous it looks like the same it's no it's different it's definitely different you see that how the head is bigger yeah that's a male but the balls the balls on that thing wandering through someone's yard but that photo with it's covered in mud that one in the middle yeah what's hanging see that is that's the super controversial hogzilla photo because he could be standing a few feet back and then yeah the thing just looks you don't know like that

could be a 500 pound pig which my friend shot a 300 pound pig real recently they're real and um there's a lot of them i'm gonna show you something my friend john hennesse, he sent me this just yesterday. There's a place where they hunt them at night. Look at this. Look how many of them there are. Oh, my God. Yeah, this is outside of Houston. And those are about 300 pounds?

Or the one he got was much bigger than that? No, this is a different friend. But just the – I'm going to send you this, Jamie. I just airdropped it to you it's just the the sheer the sheer amount of oh here we go the sheer amount of them in that photo and that's just one photo one random photo from a trail camera that shows how many pigs are just wandering through this field and what they they're really hard to get close to in the day because they're very smart, but their eyesight sucks.

So what they do is they set up at night with night vision and just like they look for these weird glowing bodies and they take them out. That one in front looks pretty fucking big. But look, I mean, it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. That's just in the view. But they set these poor pigs up. Are those feeders out there? Are those feeders for pigs? I don't know. They might be for pigs, but they might be for deer as well.

Texas is a, see there's like a tree stand back there or a feeder in the background. It's hard to tell what that is. I don't think you can do any of that in California. No, it's illegal. Texas is a weird place when it comes to hunting because there's, I'm using air quotes, hunting ranches that are like 200 acres. So basically you're shooting your pets. You've got like these animals that are corralled in this.

I mean, it's harvesting meat and it's probably in some way more ethical than farming. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell. Yeah. It doesn't seem like quite what I imagine when I think of hunting. I like to go where they live. Yeah. I mean, but those things live there.

Well, those things are different. They don't look at wild pigs as like a game animal. They're a nuisance animal. But they're delicious, which is crazy. They really are like some of the best meat. Like wild pigs, if you cook like pulled pork from wild boar, it is damn delicious. And if you have a really good chef

that knows how to cook wild game well, and they can like put one on a Traeger, oh my God, it's so good. Fantastic. Yeah. I mean, we get into, again, what the values are. California has a whole different set of values. But I also don't think we have a pig problem like that.

They do. Do they? Yeah, they have wild pigs that have invaded San Diego. Excuse me, San Jose. Really? Yeah, they're in people's lawns in San Jose, fucking them, and they're trying to figure out what to do about it because they're encroaching on the tech community. California, you have to humanely capture the pig

and then drive it out into the middle of nowhere and release it, I believe. You can kill them. You can kill as many as you want, actually. Oh, really? Yes, but you have to have a tag for them. The difference between California and everywhere else is in Texas, you don't even have to have a tag for them. The difference between California and everywhere else is,

like in Texas, you don't even have to have a tag. If you have a hunting license, you can go out and you can shoot 30, 40 pigs out of a helicopter. Legitimately. Have you ever seen that? I have. That's how they do it in a lot of places because it's literally the only way to get close enough to them. So they circle around in helicopters

and they gun them down with machine guns. It's bananas. In California, obviously you can't do that, but you can kill like 30 pigs in a day. But you have to have a tag for all these pigs. And each tag costs money. If they're in San Jose, you can't hunt

in... Exactly. You gotta find them somewhere else. Yeah. In a place like San Jose in an urban environment, I'm pretty sure you have to capture them. See if you can find wild pigs invade San Jose. There was a news article that showed video. I'm trying to find something newer than October. I have a bunch of stories from October, which is like six months ago.

That's all right. It doesn't matter. You don't have to get newer. Just show me some video because it's pretty crazy. This guy's sitting in his house, and he's watching these big-ass fucking pigs just chew his lawn apart. Just in a city.

In a city. In a city house. Yeah, like a regular- Nice suburban house. Wow. Nice lawn. Getting fucked up by pigs. Yeah.

That's crazy. Well, a lot of them were brought over there. But did we dispute this? William Randolph Hearst was responsible for a lot of them. At the castle, he wanted pigs. He wanted pigs. He wanted a lot of other animals. It's at the castle he wanted pigs he wanted pigs he wanted a lot of other animals like yeah this is uh city to allow archery to hunt wild pigs they weren't going to that's how you get around the gun they weren't going to I'm saying this is like this is

October 7th there was October 23rd said they weren't I was trying to figure out if it said there was 24 pigs was running around so it doesn't sound like they could have caught all 24 the problem with archery in a neighborhood is people suck. Archery is hard to learn. I don't want some guy who just picked up a fucking bow and he starts launching arrows into other people's yards and hits someone's window, hits a kid. It all seems like a bad idea in a neighborhood.

Yeah, archery is tricky. hits a kid you know people are i mean it all seems like a bad idea in a neighborhood yeah you know archery is tricky so some guys uh trying to make often they have large teeth that are not afraid of people it's um yeah hunting in a neighborhood is any kind of archery hunting like telling someone they should archery hunt is like telling someone they should jujitsu fight right you know I mean oh okay just going there to get ya just go choke people like that so fuck there's a lot of work involved man like you want to learn how to archery hunt like pigs pigs are smart it's a very specific skill yeah to spend a lot of time a lot of time and how are you gonna get close enough to shoot that pig?

Because if you're not really good with a bow you're gonna have to figure out How to get 20 yards from it right and even that's run away. Yeah, you're not gonna get 20 yards from a pig That's close man. 20 yards is 20 steps, right? You know like legitimately I Don't I I don't think I don't think, I don't think that's going to work. I can't, I mean, I can't picture myself getting, I mean, maybe slightly closer to a chipmunk or a squirrel or something. Maybe, maybe if they're near the tree. Right. And they're super used to you being there. Yeah. My dog got a possum the other day and I think he thought he killed the possum. It's kind of hilarious because possums play possum. Right. You know, my dog is a golden retriever.

He's not a vicious dog, but he got this possum. And now he has the craziest bloodlust. It's so nuts. All he wants to do is go out and find animals. Like he's got like this video game he's playing. It's like he's an addict. Yeah. He just runs up to trees.

He's looking for squirrels. And he's looking for, where's that fucking, where's my friend the possum? Like the possum lived. Like he didn't even make it bleed like he just kind of like attacked the possum bit it and then let it go and it just laid there it's like this like possums i don't understand what they're doing i don't know what kind of weird evolutionary benefit there would be in pretending to be dead maybe that maybe it's something like with your dog didn't want to eat it. He just wanted the thrill of killing it. He definitely was trying to capture it.

I don't even think he necessarily wants to kill it. I think what he really wants to do is bring it back to you. Right. Like his whole thing is he's a retriever. His whole thing is bringing things back. Like, look what I got. Yeah. You know, but when we found this, he wasn't coming.

Like I always go, Marshall, come on, buddy. Come on. What's up, buddy? And he wasn coming. I always go, Marshall, come on, buddy. Come on. What's up, buddy? And he wasn't coming. I go, Marshall, come on. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And then we found out he had a possum. And then we go to the possum, and the possum's lying.

First of all, possums have giant teeth. Have you ever been up to one up close? No. They look like predators, but they're not. They eat berries and nuts and shit. What are the teeth for? I don't know, man, but they're giant, which is crazy, right? You think they're going to defend themselves. Yeah.

But they don't even defend themselves. They're just like, they freeze up. It's the craziest animal. And then Marshall wanted nothing to do with it after that. Well, he did, but I could get him away. He's a great dog. He listens. I'm like, come on, man, get the fuck away from that, because I didn't want him to catch

a disease or whatever. And I was like, this thing's alive and so we just threw the thing over the fence and uh it was alive and then eventually got up and walked away that's wild but what benefit does evolution i mean in what evolutionary benefit is there to just pretend you're dead no i mean if most things are going to eat you, most things that capture you like that are going to eat you, there seems to be no benefit. Google that. Why do possums play? I've already come there.

Passed it. Do they know? Is there a reason? Because a lot of animals will not. That's what it looked like. Will not go after a already dead animal. Like that possum right there is alive. Yes. Dude, that's what it looked like. Will not go after an already dead animal. Like that possum right there is alive. Yes.

Dude, that's what it looked like. It looked exactly like that. Okay, many animals are turned off by dead prey, an evolutionary tactic that keeps carnivores from consuming diseased food. Most predators will give up on prey that plays possum. Huh. Yep, they go completely catatonic, it says. Oh, wow.

It can take the marsupial anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours to become mobile again. While they can survive these types of encounters, they can still be injured. Scientists have found many possums in the wild wandering around with healed wounds and fractures, likely from being attacked. So playing possum isn't an act.

It's an involuntary reaction to threat. Wow. It's intonic immobility or thanatosis, and its body enters a catatonic state in response to fear. So they just freeze up like a bitch. In addition to seemingly feigning death, possums have other remarkable traits. They have prehensile tails to climb tree branches.

They're immune to pit viper venom. Females give birth up to 18 babies at once just 12 to 14 days after conception. Holy shit. That's insane. What a freaky animal. It worked. They're still here. Yeah, exactly. What a freaky animal. It worked. They're still here.

Yeah, exactly. Right? They also look scary as fuck. Like, that thing looks like a giant rat. Yeah. I'm telling you, giant ass teeth. This thing had giant teeth. And it was just like lying there like this, like, ah.

These giant teeth. And my dog is now obsessed with finding another one. Yeah. Like, in the middle of the night last night was I say here Here's a fun fact a possum needs white dog in the Native American Algonquin language, huh? White dog well they kind of look at your dog. They kind of do a little bit like a little weird Coyote looking thing yeah, um but yeah he's uh just completely obsessed with finding animals outside it's like it sparked some some weird things like

i didn't even know how much fun this is right so that's like his favorite thing to do yeah other than chase a ball and go swimming we need to find that as a culture. And I say need because I needed to find that. So that kind of urge to exist outside or just outside of my house, just doing something with my body. Yes. This is an important thing. It was very important to me. I wouldn't recommend it for weight loss.

I think they're two completely separate things. Right. it for weight loss i think they're two completely separate things right it's a primal switch that gets activated in with just feeling your body move and feeling satisfaction and physical activity right yeah yeah um and and i say all that and i'm like if the dude who's a professional video game player loves to eat pizza and is is perfectly happy, good for him. Yeah. Good for him. I was talking shit on professional video games once.

Oh, boy, did they get upset. But this is coming from someone who used to play a lot of video games. I have addictive tendencies towards games. Me too. Serious addictive tendencies where I can't play video games. tendencies where I can't play video games. And, uh, I, but the thing is, it's like, if you could play golf for a living, why is golf better than a video game? Cause those video game guys make a shitload of money. Yeah. They do now. Like I think, yeah, I think it's going to improve. I think like the shitload now is going to be more, you know, in a few years, I think as these things get more and more immersive

and then more and more people get involved and also in a lot of places, people go to watch them play. Well, I mean, you see whole stadiums filled up, but there are a ton of people that make money at home playing video games and people are tuning in to watch. I don't understand any of this at all, but this is a real thing that our kids are growing up with. I think for them, it's exciting. And was it StarCraft in Korea where they have those

giant stadiums full of people? StarCraft. For video games. Oh yeah. Have you ever seen it? No. You need to watch this. I saw there was one, a friend of mine's son was at one where a guy, I think his name is Ninja, won something. And this was big in America. But I didn't know they had specific stadiums for video games. This is wild. Yeah, StarCraft is a particularly demanding strategy game that I've never played.

I don't really understand it. But it's a top-down game and you're looking down on this world and you're moving these players around and doing all kinds of shit, and you're doing many things simultaneously. You're like playing war with these video game characters. And you'll see enormous stadiums, like 15,000 people filled with cheering fans and giant screens watching this game play out. The last time...

They're on the new games now. Apparently, this is not the current hot shit, if you will. StarCraft II? Yeah. That clip we saw of a video game was one guy controlling all those guys? Yeah, that's what's nuts, man. You move things around, you got a bunch of things happening. But look at the size of the crowd, man.

This guy's a star. He's walking through high-fiving people. Yes! Look at that. Look at that fucking crowd for a video game. of the crowd man this guy's a star he's walking through high-fiving people use look at that look at that fucking crowd for a video game it's not quite the saitama super arena and not quite but it's up there on its way yeah it's up there but I mean you know 15 years ago there was this did not exist right and now they're filling up arenas like Like 15 years from now, who fucking knows? And you got to imagine that the games these guys are able to develop now in comparison

to the games that will exist 15 years from now, they'll be even more immersive. They'll either be augmented reality or some form of virtual reality or some more insanely aggressively addictive version of these video games because they're so addictive. I was given – sometimes they give you presents. You're going to start a movie and they give you gifts, which is a bizarre thing to happen. But I was given an Xbox.

I was starting a movie, given an Xbox 15 or more years ago. And I brought it home and my wife said, oh, that doesn't come in this house. You can keep that in your trailer. And then when you're done, you're done with it. So I took it to my trailer. And one day after work, I started playing a game that I was playing sporadically.

And the next thing I knew, they were knocking on my trailer like, oh, you're here, good. We're ready for you in hair and makeup. I sat in my trailer all night playing a video game. You didn't realize it? I had, I mean, I knew it was late, but I wasn't, no, I didn't realize that I was there for 10 hours.

So you never went to sleep? No. Oh my God. And that was kind of when I knew video games were not for me. It was a bad, dark road. They're fucking crazy addictive, man. And we've only begun to scratch the surface. At my old studio

I had a virtual reality to virtual reality setups at an HTC vive and I had an oculus and My kids would run to them when they came to the studio They would just run to the oculus and put it on start playing games Yeah, they couldn't wait and I had some people say that like video games are like I had a conversation You know Naval Naval Rava can't you know he's not fascinating guy big tech guy really brilliant person But he was like he doesn't doesn't buy it. He's like nobody plays Augmented reality or virtual reality. It's just doesn't he doesn't think it's really gonna catch on I'm like you need to see my kids they go bonkers for this shit because you can

Box in it. Like the boxing thing is like a legitimate workout, man. You do become inside of the universe. And you're boxing like some guy. Like you're in a ring and you look at him across the ring staring at you and he's moving towards you.

And when he hits you, you see a flash of a blinding light. It's like, whoa. Yeah. And it's a workout man you get a good workout i have a kid who believes uh very heavily in the simulation and she she's also a nihilist though she's 16 so it's a weird it's a weird time for her sometimes she says she's an absurdist and sometimes it's a nihilist which i am happy that just means she's very smart yes trying on these different schools of thought yes and she will go into simulation theory theory and i'm just like

if it's true who cares we're here this is this whatever reality is what it is if it's fake simulated reality it's this is what we got that's one way of looking at it. I had a conversation with Nick Ballstrom once, and he's a guy who believes in the simulation. And what does he do? That we're in the simulation? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or that it's going to happen? No, that we're in it.

Okay. He was talking about probability theory. And it was one of those conversations where I was like, ooh, I'm too dumb for this one. Which happens quite a bit, you know, and, but with him, he was explaining how, because of probability theory, because we know that we know virtual reality exists. We know that technology is ever evolving and that there's always constant innovation and then there's a real thirst for it. We also know that wherever we are right now, if we can stay alive, whatever our technology is today will pale in comparison to the technology from a thousand years ago. Then we know there are literally hundreds of millions of stars in this galaxy.

Hundreds of billions. Hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe each one of those has who knows how many fucking stars each one of those has who knows how many planets so that means in some of these they've gone far past us if there is intelligent life out there in the universe which they suppose there is right Someone has figured out how to make something that's indiscernible from this. So if this is reality, if what you and I and Jamie and everybody else listening exist in is a real tangible reality that you can touch and feel and you can weigh and measure, but that one day we'll get to a place where there'll be a artificial reality that will be as amazing and as tactile as this,

and you won't be able to tell the difference. Nick Bahlstrom's argument was because of those facts, it's more likely that it's already existed, and that we're in it right now. I mean, again, that's a heavy thought to run through, and I think that's exactly what my kid was trying to tell me. And that's fine. But I don't know what I'd do with it. It's just, Elon believes in it too, by the way.

He believes we're in it. Yeah, he believes in the simulation. Yeah. I believe it's, I mean, I don't know. I just don't know what, like, if all of this is computer generated or artificially generated then what do we do we keep doing what we're doing maybe it's the wrong question because we know for sure that at the lowest measurable or understandable level of reality when you get to the quantum level it's basically magic

when i talked to brian green and he was trying to explain it to me and again too dumb for that conversation i just did my best but you get to these super states where things are moving and they're also still and they're existing two things one thing is existing in two places at once. Yeah. And then spooky action at a distance where somehow or another a particle in a long far away place, far, far away place, has an interaction with a particle that's here and vice versa. Yeah, they're entangled. How? Who knows? They don't know.

But they can kind of show it with mathematics. Right. They can kind of show it with these calculations. And CERN is doing some weird shit too where they're looking at this kind of stuff. Yeah. You were talking before about how you had a guy coming who's dead set on belief in aliens and like- Yeah. Christopher Mellon.

All the shit that the Pentagon's releasing and all of that. Christopher Mellon. All the shit that the Pentagon's releasing and all of that. I talked to a guy because I'm hyper-focused right now on diet and stuff like that. But I remember reading Carl Sagan and him talking about how he thought that our first brush with extraterrestrials would be microorganisms. And I was talking to a guy who is a professor at UCLA, Emren Meyer, or Meyer, and he was talking about our gut biome, how there's more bacteria, individual organisms in our gut,

than there are stars in the galaxy. Really? Something astronomical like that, yes. And he said that these things act in an intelligent way and communicate with our brain in an intelligent way and that there's some kind of symbiosis there. And that to me sounds like fucking aliens living in us already.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure, right? We're an ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, right? We're an ecosystem. Yeah. And like if we were to, if something external that had no idea what we were were to perceive us in terms of living organisms, we would be the last

because we're a single living organism with hundreds of billions of other organisms inside of us and around us and contributing to us and working together. This is a wild thought. It is a wild thought. And it seems like that applies to every animal on earth and all life on earth, essentially, right? Even plants have this crazy symbiotic relationship with fungus and with the nutrients that are in the ground.

relationship with fungus and with with the nutrients that are in the ground and i mean when you think about what a probiotic is right like if you drink i love kombucha i drink a lot of kombucha yeah it's you're drinking a live organism yeah and it's like healthy so and it's fueling all the other live organisms inside of you i when i describe it as like you're you got a little army and you like put some healthy soldiers into your body with this kombucha. Yeah. That's kind of what a probiotic is, acidophilus, whatever you're taking. You're kind of like taking in some little soldiers, take care of a lot of stuff. For jujitsu people, it's critical for avoiding skin diseases.

Right. One of the things that comes up in jujitsu all the time is scratches. Staff. Staff, yeah. Scratches lead. Ringworm, yeah. And all those things can be at least somewhat mitigated with acidophilus and with various probiotics and then healthy soaps. Like you don't want to use a antibacterial soap kill the good

guys too exactly so there's actually a company called defense soap and defense soap shout out to my man guy sacco who created defense soap he created it for grapplers and he created for wrestlers and because a lot of these kids were getting sick and then they were using antibacterial soap like they would get not sick, but they'd get little infections. So he came up with this defense soap, which is mostly healthy oils, like tea tree oil and eucalyptus and all those things. They don't kill the bad bacteria, but they fight off, rather they don't kill the good bacteria, but they fight off the bad bacteria.

And they keep the skin biome healthy. And so there's a bunch of products that they've developed that are based on this principle that you're dealing with the surface of your skin it's it's an ecosystem yeah which is nuts like you're i want to keep the soldiers happy there's so many theories that you can run down to like autoimmune disease and the rate of autoimmune in countries like America versus really, really third world countries where it just basically doesn't exist. Now, I think the life expectancy might be lower, so that's not a good trade-off. But when you have stuff like your immune system and you're clearing it of everything that it's

And you're clearing it of everything that it's learned to fight over however long we've been here. Yeah. And suddenly it has nothing to fight. It's going to find things to fight. And then, you know, I think that that's the same with bacteria and all this stuff. And I know it's even kind of taboo in some circles to recommend eating vegetables. You know, I know carnivores are not super into vegetables but even the mitotoxins in vegetables is you're getting just enough of it that your body learns to fight it you know right that's hormesis right hormesis yeah um i think that's the argument

unfortunately that some uh epidemiologists have made about our current situation in terms of like Constantly sterilizing our hands and hand sanitizer and also not even being around people that our immune systems are atrophying Which is scary because you think about how many people my kid right now My youngest daughter has a cold an actual real cold. I haven't seen a fucking cold in forever. When was the last time you saw a cold? A year and a half. We tested her for the Rona. She's already had it.

She had Corona? Yes. Oh, wow. Which was nothing. This cold is way worse than Corona. Right. Like, she's coughing, running nose. She feels like shit.

But she's just watching TV and chilling. Yeah. But it was crazy. It's like, oh, you got a cold. Huh. Forgot about those. Yeah. Like, kids always get colds yeah and you know no colds right because no contact yeah no contact so we're not building up immunities right yeah i mean it's critical for children and you know you know because you have kids as well like those little fuckers are petri dishers yeah they go to school and they come back with all kinds of stuff and you get it and yeah there's

a huge period of time where kids fingers are just dirty and sticky no matter what you wash them all day long they're just they just appear dirty and sticky again like they're running around licking their hands and touching the floor yep yeah yeah they're just uh it's uh i mean it's nature right when you see babies they're always sticking things in their mouth and touching things and dirt. It's like nature is trying to get them to do that, I guess. I have a hard time rationalizing some of this stuff when it becomes these absolutes of everybody must do this. And again, I go like, well, do we all have exactly the same values?

I don't know that that's true. And if that's not true, then this sounds to me like a religious position that we're making. But I try to understand these things. And I was speaking with a guy who studied epidemiology at UCLA. And he said they had a large sign that was a constant reminder to them every day. And it just said everybody lies and this i think what a fucking weird sign i mean this but it's it's like the the idea is like

because i was asking if somebody's had corona why why are they pushing so hard for them to get vaccinated when the amount of reinfection doesn't look to be any worse than breakthrough infection post-vaccination? So what's the point there? And his point was, well, in epidemiology, you learn that everybody lies. So your aunt who never got tested but had a bad cold back in March and is convinced she had Corona might not get the vaccine when she might not have had Corona. Right. And so therefore they're going forward with everybody must get the vaccination as this kind of. But I think it's interesting to think about that, like everybody lies. And, and I don't think they mean it necessarily, even intentionally. Like they mean play it safe, play it safe, or even just like I'm counting

calories, but I'm going to not measure my ketchup. Yeah. Are you really counting calories? You know what I mean? Ketchup's got calories. A lot. Yeah. A lot of sugar. I'm counting calories, but I'm going to eat four pounds of broccoli today. At some point, that's going to add up. Yeah. It's amazing how much a handful of almonds. Yeah. Handful of almonds, like 500 calories or something crazy. Dude, when I was keto, I would get bags of macadamia nuts at Trader Joe's and never look

at the caloric value of them and eat them. Like I could just eat this full of fat and it's so good. And then I'm not losing weight. Right. And I'm eating, you know, bacon for breakfast, like a package of bacon for breakfast, a steak for lunch, snacking on macadamia nuts all day and not losing weight and like fucking pulling my hair out because it didn't seem to be working. At some point, you can't eat more than your body needs or you're going to hold on to weight. Like this is just the way that works. If keto gets you to a place where you're going to be able to not eat enough to lose weight, that's great.

That's perfectly great. But if you're eating fucking heavy whipping cream on everything, this might not be the solution. Yeah, there's no miracle when it comes to weight loss. That's a fact. And calories in versus calories out is real. It's real. The difference between keto and other diets is once your body gets into that fat burning state, it becomes easier to eat less. There you go. But you still have to be disciplined because macadamia nuts still taste fucking good. Yeah.

And then like a sicko like me, I'm reading all the keto recipes of like how to make bagels with pork rinds and heavy whipping cream and cream cheese. You know what I mean? And convinced that this is going to work. But I'm eating 5,000 calories a day in fat and not losing weight. The only thing that I did ever when I went on a diet to lose weight was that carnivore diet. But the reason why is because when you're not eating the pasta and the rice and all that stuff, like a salad or anything like that, the steak itself is enough.

It does satisfy you. Yeah. But I could have definitely eaten other shit. Like a loaf of bread. If there was a loaf of bread, I would have chowed that too. And that would have been additional calories that i really didn't need yeah to be satisfied but if you're just eating steak you get to the end of that 16 ounce ribeye and you're like i'm done i'm done i'm good you know i don't i'm not a full like a glutton like what i like to be

and but i am yeah but you can get to this place where you know your body is in some sort of a calorie deficit and also not as much calories as i'm accustomed to eating because i do eat a lot of food yeah i eat a lot of food too i just i i've you know um the idea of maintenance this was something that i never went into any diet thinking about. I never went into any diet thinking about like how once I lose weight, how am I going to eat to keep it off? This was not a thought. The thought was always my problem is I'm fat. Once I lose my weight, I will have solved my problem and all will be well. And then I arrive at, well, shit, now I'm gaining weight.

So I'll just kind of do this diet again sporadically um i work my fucking ass off for a couple of years just on maintenance and not even when i was at my goal like let me figure out what it is to eat because i trampled over all the physical signs of like satiation like i don't know what it is to eat a meal and go like, I've had enough. I don't know what that is. I eat until I'm practically nauseous. Yeah, that's how I eat.

And I do it in private cause I don't want people to watch me eat like that. So to like, and I hate these cringy words, like mindfulness, this word makes me sick to my stomach too. However, if I sit by myself and actually look at what I'm eating and eat it with some sense of purpose, this has helped. It's unfortunate the hippy dippy shit has helped a little bit. Yeah, the hippy dippy shit is real. The problem is so many hippy dippy people are so fucking annoying right they've ruined these good hippie

dippy phrases and words and ideas yeah yeah mindfulness is a legit concept yeah but it's been ruined because it's awful really it's awful spirituality yeah i'm spiritual yeah i'm not religious i'm spiritual right yeah here's my favorite one i'm living my truth yeah what the fuck are you saying yeah just don't let your truth fuck with my truth you have your own truth holy shit yeah um when you said you were on a liquid diet yeah what how did you do that i was doing a movie in romania, um, what was the movie? Cold mountain 2002. And I had this brutal experience on a plane with a conversation with a guy who I think was very meant well, but I, you know, honestly he framed it all in terms of like, uh, his relationship with Christ and how my relationship with Christ was clearly lacking

because I was a mess. And that was his value. He was concerned for me, was basically at the root of it and expressing that concern. I think anytime somebody tells me or has, you know, I don't want to talk really about masks or anything like that. But this is also very much like we don't all have to share the same values. But I recognize that when somebody's telling me I need to live a certain way, this is just them imposing their values on me. This is not anything more than that. And so I'm a little open and I go, OK, I understand where that's coming from. You know, I don't want to upset anybody.

He had this conversation with me on a plane. I landed and I started to think about like, what am I doing? Like, I just hadn't been thinking about it. What am I going to do with my life? What do I want to do? Like, I have trouble going to the beach with my girlfriend at the time. She likes to go on hikes. I don't fucking go on.

I'm not going on a hike. I don't even like walking around the block at that point. And, uh, I called her up and it was the most bizarre feeling because I am objectively 550 pounds at this point. And I had to talk to her about wanting to change my weight. And it felt as though I was telling her a secret. Like I, I felt like I was going to tell her something she didn't know. Like if you couldn't tell I'm morbidly obese, nothing could be more evident. And in this conversation, she was like, okay, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, I want to lose weight. And she said, good. As soon as you get home, I'll have something ready for you. And when I landed, she picked me up and she had this whole liquid meal plan ready that was full

of like fiber pills and vitamins and shakes. And that's what I ate for 60 days. And how much weight did you lose in 60 days? 80 pounds. That's incredible in and of itself. Yeah. Wow. And that weight I never put back on so when you lost that did you decide at one point in time i can't do this anymore yeah i mean um i was cold all the time and i would start cold yeah freezing cold all the time which i'm a really i run really hot like i can sweat just standing up and and this i I was like not quite shivering, but I was really cold. What do they think that's from? I don't know.

Just being malnourished. Oh. And when I would stand up, my vision would go dark and then come back. And I had like an eight-week break from this movie and I did it then, but I don't think I could be at work feeling like that. I understand. Yeah. You wouldn't be able to concentrate. Yeah.

Wow. That's crazy that you would go dark when you got up. Yeah. Like all the way, eyes open but black, and then it would slowly come back. And I'd have to hold on to shit because I felt like I was going out. Wow. Yeah. So that has to be some sort of blood sugar thing, I would imagine.

Yeah. I don't actually know But probably Sounds right I don't know either We just guessed Like you've You've been choked out Yeah

I've been choked out Not unconscious Not totally unconscious Really No I always tap Okay I didn't even know It was happening

It happened to me once And I thought like No I can get out of this And then I was just unconscious But I remember my vision Starting to go And that's the sign. I should have paid attention to I flew in an FAA teen Once with the Blue Angels and I blacked out Yeah I made it all see the problem is I made it to way higher G's and I didn't black out and then we were on

One turn and I just I'm like I got this and then like just the blood go so yeah Yeah, it's uh, we were doing seven and a half G's which is for those guys is nothing But for me was like what the fuck when you feel that pressure. It's crazy. We're we're banking into a turn I wish I could remember the gentleman who was flying But he was a fucking stud and these guys are all like super jacked and one of the reasons why they're jacked is because they have To force blood into their brain while they're flying. Right. So as they're holding on to the thing, he's going like this.

Hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot. So you're forcing blood into your head as you're banking. And we're like. And I could see it like an elevator door. Like my consciousness closing in. And I'm fighting. And I'm going. Hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot.

And they could get to like seven, ten, nine. They go way higher than seven and a half, and I'm fighting, and I'm going, and they could get to like 7, 10, 9. They go way higher than 7 1⁄2, what I did. And I was fine with that. And then as we were coming in, we did this other hard turn. We were only like at 4 1⁄2 Gs or something like that. And I'm like. And then I got up, threw up. I was like, damn it.

I was almost home. This was every time I stood up doing a liquid diet. Yeah. Vision black. And then once you got back on food, did it all come back, your heat and everything? Yes. That all came back. But I was on a very, very low calorie diet when I started eating.

And I ate that way for another few months. So I continued to lose weight far far more slowly but then even then I was still doing like under a thousand calories a day but I was eating solid food have you ever heard of the story of the man who fasted for 365 days and he you know this guy i don't know him but i have heard about him he drank only water and took in vitamins i think iv vitamins i forget how they did it but this guy lost an insane amount of weight and the crazy thing is his skin shrank yeah that's i mean listen i don't want to say um that's something that's not really talked about enough amongst people who have massive weight loss. And I find that people, um, who start to lose a lot of weight

are suddenly confronted with this fact that they have billowing skin and it's shocking and very upsetting. And, um, I think that guy's an outlier cause I did read about him uh mostly people are going to have a lot of excess skin the the thought was that maybe because the fact the guy was ketogenic for the entire 365 days a year and his body was consuming fat that it also consumed skin as well i don't think that's scientifically possible but do you know of any other outliers that lost a shit ton of weight and didn't have any loose skin? No. I don't know of anybody. Yeah, that's what's weird, right?

Yeah. And I was ketogenic for hundreds of pounds of weight loss and still had loose skin. And then I got skin surgery and then gained weight again. Like I've done every awful thing you could do with weight loss. I think it's more than even ketogenic because this guy's body was literally living off itself. It's not like he was taking in macadamia nuts or whatever. He's living off his own tissue. And I wonder if that was the catalyst. I just don't think skin is bioavailable in that way. skin is bioavailable in that way.

But muscle is. Muscle is and fat is, but I don't think you can disintegrate, consume your skin in that way. From what I've read, skin as an organ is elastic and when you fill it up it's built to be stretched but if you keep it filled up for too long it and it can't stretch from that point it then goes like oh shit we have a new settling point we're going to now grow to this size and so that we can be elastic again because your body unfortunately will always store fat your body wants to store fat you know your body, unfortunately, will always store fat. Your body wants to store fat. Your body understands famine and it understands when there's excess. You store it if you can.

You want to do that. Your body's not concerned with being thin and looking good. Your body wants to stay alive. It doesn't give a fuck. And being fat will save you if there's a famine. And it takes a hell of a lot longer to kill you than starving. You can starve to death pretty quick. Isn't that crazy that your body lives in the same space as your brain?

Your brain wants you to look good. Right. But your body's like, shut the fuck up and make me fat. Yeah. This food's going to go away. Yeah. The five days worth of food you can get at the gas station for two bucks, that's going to go away.

It's going to disappear. You're going to starve. Eat it all. Store the fat. You'll be safe. What a weird battle. Yeah. Your brain and your body play with each other.

It really is strange. It's fucked. And then if you want to lose weight and retain muscle mass, you got to convince your body that you're doing shit with it to survive. So you got to lift heavy things so that your body doesn't consume your muscles those are like the key things to if you want to lose weight because muscle requires energy it requires food so you can eat a little bit more if you have a little bit more muscle this is the benefit of having muscles yeah and the what it takes to gain muscle most people don't understand they think you

lift weights to gain muscle like no no you have to lift weights and then you have to tell your body hey motherfucker we're gonna do this all the time you better grow and it's gonna get heavier and it's gonna suck yeah you have to feel like oh you have to like oh we're stretching and everything's sore and that is the only way your body's like, okay, this asshole is just going to pick up heavy things every fucking day. We need more resources. We need more tissue. Yeah. That's it.

And then your appetite kicks in. Yeah. And then you're eating more. Oh, yeah. When I lift weights, especially heavy, I am so fucking hungry. Because your body's like, hey, bitch, time to grow. You going to make me do this? Yeah.

Why are we carrying things? Isn't this a new world? We have machines to carry things. Why are we carrying things? Isn't this a new world? We have machines to carry things? You should be playing video games. What's wrong with you? Why are you farmer walking with two 72-pound kettlebells, you piece of shit? And didn't you know at the... Maybe you have an electric car, but at the gas station, you can get all the food you need for the month, and it won't go bad for 20 bucks.

What is happening to that stuff inside your body? It's fermenting. It's turning to formaldehyde. I avoid that stuff as often as possible, but every time I do eat processed food, my body's like, what is this nonsense? Yeah. I have a weird thing where I can eat sugar if I'm in the gym. If I'm in the gym lifting weights and I have a Gatorade, I feel fucking awesome.

I feel like Superman. Yeah. If I have a Gatorade late at night or a bowl of ice cream, I wake up hungover and feel like I'm dying. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. When I eat ice cream and then go to bed, I will have this horrible feeling in the middle

of the night where my stomach's like. Yeah. Yeah. And I almost have a headache. Yeah. You know, like it's just your body doesn't want. But a hard weightlifting session and then a Snickers bar, like, you feel pretty fucking good.

Because you can use it. Yeah. You actually can use it. When I was riding bikes a lot, some of the old pros would say, like, and I'd have, like, you know, non-GMO fucking health bars and electrolytes without sugar and all this stuff, and we'd get to the top of the hill, and they'd have a Snickers and a Coke.

And they would literally say like, this is the perfect, perfect meal for right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's what Floyd Mayweather uses. After it works out, he drinks Coke. Yeah. Which is crazy. And his body, it's like rocket fuel.

It's high octane. I don't actually know how gas works, but it's something that sounds like high octane is for a fast car. I know. It's a thing that trainers actually recommend, which is nuts. They'll tell you, yeah, a sugary soft drink is actually very good after a workout. Yeah. Like, what?

I mean, this is the idea that food is fuel, right? That we are actually... Could you imagine if every night the leftover gas in your car would make your car heavier and you'd still need to put gas in the next day? Like you would start to fucking figure out exactly how much gas you needed. Yeah. We don't do that. Right, right. You'd be like, this fucking stupid car is so fat.

Yeah. I would like to drive to your house, mom, but my car is fat. It's slow. It'll never make it over Gassing it for years. It's got clogged fucking hoses. There's wheels hurt. Yeah, it's just miserable It's riding low. They're all fucking half deflated Yeah, treating your body like a machine like I always call my body my meat vehicle Yeah, but like treating it like a machine is so difficult because it's interconnected with all these feelings and pangs, hunger pangs.

And there's so much going on, emotions. And in America, we celebrate everything with food. Oh, yeah. Like every holiday is about food. I get so over it at Thanksgiving. Like we're going to do this again. And then Christmas is just a string of events where we're eating. Yeah. The turkey industry celebrates Thanksgiving.

The turkey industry and then the pumpkin industry is really pumped about October. Yeah. And Halloween rolls around. Like, who the fuck else would be buying pumpkins? Yeah. You know, if there wasn't for Halloween, how many pumpkins would we sell in this country? Three? Three pumpkins?

Pumpkin pie, I guess, actually. Pumpkin pie is pretty good. Pretty goddamn good. But you don't want to eat it all the time. I mean, I don't. Oh, if it's right there. Some whipped cream. Yeah.

Pumpkin pie is pretty fucking good. Lots of whipped cream. I changed my mind. Fucking, we need more pumpkins. But like, have you ever had baked pumpkin? No. It's pretty good. I've had baked squash.

It can't be much different. Yeah, I like spaghetti squash. Yeah, delicious. Spaghetti squash. Why can't be much different. Yeah. I like spaghetti squash. Yeah. Delicious. Spaghetti squash. Why can't I say that? Spaghetti squash with marinara sauce is almost as good as pasta. Yeah. Sometimes better.

Have you ever had these kelp noodles? No. There are kelp noodles nowadays. And one of my kids was eating them and I was just like, this is stupid. Kelp noodles are stupid. But then I tried them and i couldn't i mean they're not exactly the same there's a little bit more of a crunch so you imagine if it's like super al dente pasta but they're fucking good you put some tomato sauce on them really it's pretty good yeah i've had help hemp pasta okay i like hemp pasta is that lower in calories i don know. I think it has protein though.

Right. That's the thing about hemp. There used to be, there's a protein spaghetti that I used to buy, but oh my God, the farts. Yeah. They were out of this world. They're like, what is happening in my body? But it might've been, I would eat this protein pasta with marinara sauce with tuna. And this was when I was a young single man.

Yeah. I would boil the pasta and then I would take the sauce and dump a can of tuna into the sauce, stir it up, pour it on together. And then just thank God I was alone. Right. But that's a ton of protein. Yeah. Oh, a ton of protein. But yeah, I don't think my body enjoyed it. And I don't know if it was the pasta or the combination of the pasta with the sauce and the tuna as well, but all together. When I upped my protein, I started paying attention to how much protein I got every day, and I actually had to increase my protein. If I would fuck up and miss a meal and wind up with like – I got 100 grams of protein left towards the end of the day, and I'd eat it all at once, which is a fucking shitload of protein to consume at one time.

The gas, everybody in my house would be furious with me. I mean like really fucking awful. So that – and I have my coach, Jared Feather again, amazing guy. He would program me and he would say, no, like you eat 25 grams in this meal and 50 grams in this meal and spread it out throughout the day. And I'd go like, yeah, okay. But if I get to the end of the day and I've only eaten one meal, I'll just eat everything then. Cause I kind of like just fucking eating till I'm stuffed and need to go. That's a bad idea for a number of reasons. I go, okay, but like, does it really matter? And then the gas actually got me to spread it out, which is beneficial. Have you ever heard of the warrior diet? That's when people eat one meal a day. Yeah. If I was going to try to cram 250 to 270

grams of protein into one meal a day, it would be a disaster. It would be a fucking disaster. I think that goes to the biodiversity thing like some people can do it yeah some people like it that way i know quite a few people that eat one strong meal a day yeah mark sisson wasn't even saying that wasn't mark saying he eats one meal a day often yeah he's the guy that uh wrote that, The Primal Blueprint. Yeah. And he had all sorts of arthritis and all sorts of issues with his joints and cut out for him. I mean, this is like his thing. He cut out all bread, all pasta, all grains and just started eating completely unprocessed food. Eats a lot of grass fed steak, eats a lot of just vegetables and it all went away.

And then he feels infinitely better and wrote this book about how, you know, how to cook and how to eat with completely unprocessed food. But he now, but he's in his 60s, very fit. He's my canary in a coal mine. When I see a dude in his 60s, it gets after as much as that guy does. But he exercises, but he doesn't kill himself. But he looks great. He's got a full six pack. As far as an older guy, he looks amazing. And I'm pretty sure he only eats once a day for the most part. Occasionally, he'll have a light breakfast or something like that. But

he's got his body kind of dialed in to where he needs it and what to eat. Most of my friends though that are athletes, particularly fighters, they eat all throughout the day. They eat multiple... A lot of them carry around those little Tupperware containers and they'll eat multiple meals a day. I take that to work. I don't fuck with food at work anymore. Crab service.

Yeah, I don't fuck with it. Craft service can get you, man. It's deadly, dude. You start grazing. Yeah. I see people just walking by that craft service like, hmm, what do we got here, a bagel? Yeah. M&Ms? And then they like serve a weird meal.

They come around with sandwiches halfway through the morning and there's still the table over there. It's psychotic how much. And in fairness, like a gripper, an electrician who's picking up heavy things all day, I understand that guy needs to eat throughout the day. But like I, who am a fucking dumb actor, who mostly just standing around saying words, like it's not physically demanding. Right. It's like a luxury thing though.

They want you to feel like you're catered to, like as if you went to a resort yeah and they walk by would you like some ice cream yeah yes i would i'm on vacation anything you can think of we have it somewhere yeah okay yeah yeah it's um those habits that people develop at work like i knew a lot of people that uh would act and they would be on sets and they would gain weight like every time they would be on a set because they just would, that craft service the table, the setup especially if it's a good craft service one with the bagels and the lox fucking hard to avoid man

especially in the morning when you're tired, when I'm tired I have fucking zero willpower when I'm tired, like when I come home and I'm hungry I'm tired, it's like fast food, whatever there's like it's been proven I believe that your body reacts differently to cravings when you're tired you make poor choices Yeah, this is this is a this is one of the habits that I've worked on really hard at changing It's like I don't do anything hungry, and I don't let I don't go to the grocery store hungry

I don't start cooking hungry. Yeah If I start cooking my dinner and I'm starving, my pour of the olive oil is heavier. You know what I mean? My portioning of the rice, I'm smashing it into that cup to make sure the cup has really two cups in it, just accidentally. Yeah. What kind of exercise are you doing these days? I just lift weights. Just weights That's it Yeah Every Six days a week And

For cardio It's mostly walking around I take my dogs on a walk I get on an elliptical machine But I'm never Doing like Hit type stuff I like ellipticals for

You could pretend You're working out Like you're You're working out But you watch TV Yeah Cause like You just kind of

Can get into a movie And the next thing you you know you're like I'm fucking 150 beats a minute yeah I'm getting after it yeah my heart rate spiked I can do an elliptical for a long time and it doesn't it doesn't have it's like I don't want my heart rate too high so if I'm trying to keep it steady that's a great thing to do why do you want your heart rate low? I just don't want to tap into any – I don't want to like for the time being. If I'm like – when I was just hyper-focused on I want to lose weight, I just want to get small, then I had a lot more cardio in my routine. And right now, I want to preserve every single gram of muscle I have. I don't want to give it up. So, and since I've been basically in some kind of caloric deficit for so long, if I work

too hard or if the deficit slips too much, it's going to tap into, it's going to use some lean tissue too. So you're just into getting jacked right now. That's it. I just want abs, dude. I didn't, I got to 200 pounds. I was doing eight hours of cardio a day on a bike and I didn't have abs and it was really fucking disappointing. Now, all of that said, I have loose skin. So it's like, you see those big muscle guys

in loose shirts and they don't, they just, that's still what I got because I got loose skin hangover but down lighting you get all the right things you can see it you can see abs which is nice are you doing a lot of abdominal exercises none none almost none how come i just i just not i feel like i get them with bench press and squats. They're all kind of activated. I do a little bit, but I'm not hyper-focused on doing abs. I'm also not building muscle right now. I think – I mean you can get abs just by being lean.

Yeah. You will look good. Yeah. By being lean. But if you want like thick, boom, boom. Like distended, yeah. Thick, big muscles. muscles you gotta do it yeah i also i do it because it protects everything too protects my spine it protects you know like

you're super core focused yeah really because everything i do whether it's kickboxing or jujitsu it's very core focused yeah so like it makes a big difference to have a strong back and strong abs so i do a lot of um reverse hyper i use that machine a lot i do sit-ups on that uh that you know that thing what's it called the glute ham gh yeah i know what you're talking about it's ham looks like a really extended sit-up, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's exact.

I do a lot of those, and I do back extensions on those too. And so I do, that's all, you know, so I'm working my lower back with a reverse hyper. I'm working it again with the back extensions. I'm doing my abs with that. And then I have, have you ever seen the ab mat? You know what those are? Rogue makes it. Rogue Fitness. I'm doing my abs with that. And then I have, have you ever seen an ab mat? You know what those are? Rogue makes it. Rogue Fitness. I love it. It's crazy. This little hump. It's not high. It's this little hump, but it makes such a difference in like a sit up. Because if your back

is flat on the ground, it's so much easier to sit up than it is with just this little hump. Right. It's so strange. Like you would think like, what is this little hump. Right. It's so strange. Yeah. Like you would think, like, what is this little bitch-ass hump? That doesn't matter. But it does. That thing right there.

Oh, wow. That's what I have. That little hump, when you go down, first of all, it protects your butt and keeps you from getting torn up on the floor. But that thing right there, the ab mat, I fucking love that thing. I like the crack there, too. That's convenient. Yeah, where your legs and your old saccarine can sort of nestle itself in the middle there.

But when you use that for sit-ups, it makes the sit-ups more demanding. And then I do these other sit-ups with kettlebells. I forget what they're called. There's a name for it. Like where it's on your chest? No. No, I put my feet in two sit-ups, in two kettlebells. So I'll take like two 50s and I'll hang them over my toes.

And then I'll take two other 50s and I'll sit back and I'll sit up with the kettlebells. So I'll force myself to like press these kettlebells and then I'm raising it up. So it's a strong abdominal exercise that you really can only do like 10 reps or so in right yeah it's just really good for developing all that muscle and then i do i love turkish get-ups too yeah because turkish get-ups works the whole core yeah those are gnarly i did i did read an article once um years ago when i was super cardio focused that said that this like overweight power lifter really wanted abs. And the way he got them is he did this kettlebell thing where he did a thousand

swings a day for 10 days. And I did that and I didn't get abs. And I was like, fucking I'm over it. This is bullshit. How was he doing it? How did he get a thousand swings a day for 10 days? And that gave him abs. I don't know because that's not the way it works. But this was back in the day where I wasn't really paying attention to like how stuff actually worked. I mean it does engage – it engages your abs for sure. Yeah. But I would imagine it's more like your lower back and your hams. I couldn't sit on a toilet on day three.

It was awful. Hamstrings? Yeah. Really? It was all hamstrings? I mean that was the thing that fired the most for me was hamstrings. And by the 10th day, they were okay again. But day three and four, I wasn't sitting down.

It was really painful. When I realized how weak my hamstrings are was when I got this device called a monkey feet. You know what monkey feet is? It's the thing you strap on your foot and you put a dumbbell in it. So like your foot and you put a dumbbell in it so it like like your like your foot is grabbing and then i'll do like leg curls like i would do arm curls with my my legs and i'm like jesus christ i'm so weak like i thought my legs were strong as fuck

yeah but like doing curls with my legs doing that it's very weak but it also allows you to do things for your hip flexors so you can lift like like knee raises while holding on to like a 35-pound dumbbell with this thing at the bottom of your foot. And some guys work up to 45 pounds, 55 pounds. And you could really build the muscle tissue in your hamstrings and your hip flexors in a way that you kind of can do by holding something in your arm. Yeah. I do mostly um straight leg deadlifts for hamstrings those are good too yeah but again i thought it was a lot stronger i thought my hamstrings were a lot stronger than they were and in jujitsu hamstrings really come into play

because you you want to squeeze someone and hold them in place and you sort of develop that strength just from grappling but you certainly can enhance it with lifting weights with your hamstrings. But I think the best way I've found is with these monkey feet things, because it forces it to act as an individual unit. It forces it to balance the weight and maneuver it. And I think it gets all those stabilizing muscles. I was, uh, I trained with Eddie Bravo a long time ago and, um, I have gigantic legs, very, very strong legs, as you know somebody who carried around 550 pounds would have. And I would go around to other places. Whenever I'd travel, I'd find somebody and go do a private somewhere. And I was like, I'm going to throw a fucking lockdown on Marcel Garcia and see if my legs are really strong.

They weren't shit. Nothing. They did't shit. Nothing. They did nothing. He was like, oh, that hook. That's interesting. And just fucking came right out. You're talking about the master. I know.

I mean, Marcel Garcia. I didn't think I was going to actually do anything beyond that. I just thought I could throw the lockdown on him. And hold him in place. And show him like, this is what real strong legs are. Because he's got pretty good calves too. Oh my God. That's a big part of Marcel's game is his control with his legs.

Yeah. And his arms are not big. They're very small. And that's one of the reasons why they're very big. But that's all genetic, right? And that's one of the reasons why Marcelo always avoids what he calls strong man moves. Right. Like Marcelo never uses Kimuras because he feels like Kimuras are a strong man move, which is really interesting.

Kimura's because he feels like Kimura's are a strongman move which is really interesting but a lot of guys who even like Gabe Tuttle who's the head coach at 10th Planet in Austin he uses Kimura's and he's a small guy but he likes Kimura's to set up other things so he uses

Kimura's because when you have to defend Kimura's then it sets up back attacks it sets up arm bars and triangles there's different things that happen. So as you clamp onto that Kimura and pull it, the guy has to react. And then you use that because it's a very predictable action, right? If you have a hold of a person's arm and you're threatening with a Kimura, there's not a whole lot of things they have to do or they can do, rather. So you've got this thing and you're yanking it back like that.

They kind of have to do or they can do rather you know so you got this thing and you're yanking it back like that like they kind of have to do this right so as you anticipate that then you transition to a triangle or you transition to something else or take the back like there's a whole series i think david avalon has a whole series of uh kimura traps and how the you know they call it a you know kimura trap yeah you're setting up you're using this attack and you can finish with that attack if you get it but you're setting up a bunch of other stuff and you can finish with that attack if you get it but you're setting up a bunch of other stuff right marcello didn't even fuck with it he's like i'm just strangling bitches right i'm just going to hold them with my legs and strangle yeah i'm just gonna his his arm bars are great everything is great for sure but man he would get your back

marcello got the back i remember i was in bra Brazil in 2003, and I saw him put Shaolin to sleep. He arm dragged. And no one knew who Marcelo was at the time. But he arm dragged him and then took the back. And the two of them were rolling. They're spinning on the mat. And by the time the spin was done, Shaolin was unconscious. It was wild.

That's awesome. And it was quick. See if you could find that. Marcelo Garcia versus Shaolin 2003 Abu Dhabi and I remember being I was right there man. I was in the stands like 20 Yards away watching him do this. Yeah. Whoa watch this So they're they're tying up leave this arm Drop I'm drag take the back and spin spin spin spin spin spin, spin, spin, spin, spin. Oh, my God. And by the time he gets to here-

Done. He's out fucking cold. He's trying to resist as much as he can. So they're still spinning. And then by the time- Look at those fucking legs he has. He's out cold. That's awesome.

And Shaolin is a world-class black belt. And this is when- Is this what made Marcelo Garcia, Marcelo Garcia? Yeah, this was when the world first found Marcelo Garcia. Shaolin was already a known black belt. But show that again because the way he did it by this arm drag. So they're tying up, and this is early in the match too, man. Look at this.

He kind of pulls guard, uses his legs to upset the balance, and then holds him in place with his legs as he spins and takes the back. And then Shaolin is defending the best he can, but Marcelo just, again, not big arms, but perfect technique. But look at how big his legs are compared to the rest of his body. Enormous. And he used those legs to transition. He uses those legs to enter into techniques,

and he uses those legs as control when he gets a hold of a guy. And, by the way, couldn't be a nicer human being. He's like one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life. He's so friendly and smiling. You would never imagine. He's a savage. If there was him and a couple of the fucking Jack Buff dudes, he'd be like, which one of these guys is the biggest killer you'd be like oh that guy with the fucking big

shoulders like no no this guy this mousy looking fella was always smiling yeah he'll fucking kill everybody in this room pants on so you can't even see that he's got fucking lethal weapon legs they're just like they're like Herschel Walker's legs and a five foot six guy yeah like it doesn't even make any sense yeah and he man watching him in Abu I've seen him several times compete watching him live is something special because it's just like this the transition is so Smooth his attack is so smooth And it's so technique based and he has just a few techniques that he hits over and over and over and over and over again

And like everybody knew he wanted your back everybody knew knew he wants your back. Good luck stopping it. Right. You know, it just, he could get to that back so quickly. I can't believe he did that in that melee. I know. That's incredible. Wild scramble. Yeah.

I mean, we were all like, whoa, who is this guy? And we knew that he was from Fabio Gurgel's school. Fabio Gurgel's a very famous Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a real legend, early pioneer. So everybody knew he was well-instructed, but just like, why didn't we know about this guy? How come out of nowhere he's strangling everybody and he wins Abu Dhabi? It was wild. Jiu-jitsu is just so amazing. It's the one martial art where it does what a martial art supposed to do what a martial art supposed to be is that a smaller man with good technique can beat a larger

man and that kind of can work in other martial arts but man that smaller guy's got to be so much better like in striking the smaller man has to be so much better like lo, Logan Paul is going to fight Floyd Mayweather. Logan Paul is a big guy. He's like, what is he, like 6'2"-ish, somewhere around that range, 200 pounds, lean, fucking strapping kid. Floyd is, at his best, he was 147, 154. He's a tiny guy. He's not a big guy. He's small hands.

But everyone's betting on Floyd, even though he's literally 50 pounds lighter than this guy, because he's so much better. Is there a puncher's chance in that situation? Yes. It's a low percentage. Like, you wouldn't want to bet it. Right. You might want to bet it for a goof.

Yeah. But, I mean, I would imagine. Let me guess what the odds are. Is it a professional fight? No. I believe they're calling it an exhibition. Look, I mean, I would imagine. Let me guess what the odds are. Is it a professional fight? No. I believe they're calling it an exhibition. Look, come on. Logan Paul's fucking thick.

I met the dude in person. I met him in Hawaii. It was right after he had that boxing match with KSI. He was vacationing in the same place I was with my family, and all of a sudden I get this tap on my shoulder. I'm like, what's up, dude? He is not the same guy that just fucked. No, that's his brother Jake.

Okay. Jake is allegedly the more talented boxer. He certainly has preposterous knockout power. He can knock motherfuckers out. You can't sleep on that guy just because he's a YouTube star and he talks a lot of shit, but they're training together there. But Logan is the guy who's fighting floyd and floyd is considerably smaller than him and i would imagine the odds i must say 20 to 1 right that he wins that floyd wins no floyd that floyd mayweather 20 to 1 that floyd wins right

yeah you would floyd is the favorite yes yes big big big big way oh 20 to 1. That Floyd wins. Right. Yeah, you would. Floyd is the favorite. Yes, yes, yes. In a big, big, big, big, big way. Oh, 20 to 1 against. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Is that right? See, motherfucker? I know my shit. I'm a professional.

Yeah. Not really. But you know a lot about this kind of thing. I know about that kind of thing. I know about like, hmm, it might happen. Weird shit can happen. So if I was, for a goof, I want to bet 50 bucks, I might put 50 bucks on the kid. I'm not such a boxing fan.

I really think. You had it right. 20 to 1 actually for Floyd to win. So you have to bet 2,000 to win 100. Yeah. Wow. It's 9 to 1 for Logan to win. Yeah.

So you bet. Oh, that's interesting. $10. So 9 to 1 for Logan to win, but 20 to 1 for Floyd to win. 100 pays $900, but if you want to win $100 on Floyd, you've got to bet $2,000. Okay, so they're making it difficult. Yeah. Yes.

Somebody's going to make a lot of money. Yeah, if you want to bet a million bucks, yeah, you'll make some money, but you might sweat it. No, but I think the odds makers are making money with that differential, right? Yeah, yeah. Joey Diaz always says, I never met a bookie with a part-time job. Right. The thing that could happen, and this is very unlikely to happen, but what could happen is if Logan holds him and hits him and hurts him.

him and hits him and hurts him. So if there's a moment in an exchange where Logan, who is a very good wrestler, I mean a very good wrestler, we saw him wrestle Paul Costa, who's a UFC middleweight contender. And you watch the scrambles, like he was controlling Costa and they scrambled, he was keeping up with Costa. But you watched him move and you're like, man, this kid can fucking wrestle. And Floyd is not like this one punch obliterating knockout power puncher and then he's also 50 pounds lighter so the the weirdness what's the weirdest thing that can happen is logan could somehow or another tie him up and clip him like really hard because he's a big guy if i was his coach i, listen, motherfucker, you are not outboxing the greatest boxer of all time.

What we're going to do is we're going to cover up. We're going to cheat. We're going to maul this guy. Yeah. We're going to maul him. We're going to push him around. I want you to hold him. And I would say, plant your feet and push him over your knee.

You might twist his ankle and fuck his knee up. And we're going to mug him in the clinch. That's the thing. Cover up and mug him in the clinch. Because this is just a poppy with a jab. Keep moving. Throw a punch, but don't throw a punch like you've been trying to hit him. Just get close.

When he's throwing a punch at you, close the distance. Actually, close the distance and tie him up. And just fucking try to wail him in the clinch because that's the only time you're gonna hit him i'm now nervous for i'm nervous for mayweather like now i'm scared now i want to bet logan i would never train uh a guy like him if i was a trainer i would never train a guy like him to try to box with floyd i'm like you are not going to be on the outside trying to outmaneuver literally the slickest boxer that's ever walked the face of the earth. Do you get broken up if you get an

underhook? It depends on the referee. That's the thing. Like some referees say fight, fight through it, fight through it. And it really depends on whatever rules they develop specifically for this one sort of understanding. Like I know there was like some specific understandings for the conor mcgregor fight when conor fought floyd like if he did anything that was like mma related like if you try to take him down or kick him or something like that i think he would lose like all his money or be fined a million dollars i went to that fight did you and i was i was like i was waiting for a leg kick. I was thinking, like, you're going to get pissed off and, like, body slam the guy. He could have if he wanted to, but I think he had an opportunity to win $100 million. Right.

And that's what he got. And he risked everything. He made $100 million in that fight, which is so crazy. Yeah. It's insane. It's fucking insane. I mean, that fight made Conor McGregor so fucking rich. And he did catch Floyd.

That's what's crazy. When he clipped him with that uppercut in the first round, Floyd was like, oh, shit. Like, this guy can strike. Yeah. But Conor's used to, like, being a sniper and using all his other tools, like kicks and, you know, kicking the legs and jabbing the body with that front kick that he likes to throw for him to just use his hands only he could kind of get things off until floyd figures out his timing and then once floyd figured out the timing then

floyd was just not there when those punches land and then connor's punches became more and more labored and floyd just dragged him into the later rounds and started fucking him up. Do you think that's the worst thing that can happen for a fighter? A fighter like Conor, who I remember watching a video on him before maybe his first UFC fight when they followed him around Ireland. He did not have much money at all. Poor kid, training, hungry. To go from that to making $100 million in a boxing match where as long as he doesn't kick the guy, he makes a fortune is maybe the worst thing. I mean, for a guy who still seems like at times like he wants to fight for that, for that sport for mixed martial arts having so much seems to be working against

him no it's it can it can there's no absolutes right you know here's the thing you have to think floyd mayweather fucked him up with like a half a billion in the bank right think about that yeah because floyd mayweather when they did fight floyd mayweather was rich as fuck yeah and still beat his ass um way richer than connor then connor became after the fight yeah it's not an absolute thing some people like michael jordan famously didn't it didn't matter if he was rich he wanted wanted to win. Right, at anything. Yeah. Some people are just winners. Playing war with a deck of cards, he wants to win.

Yeah, you beat him and he won't talk to you for two weeks. Right. That was Michael Jordan. And there's guys like that in everything. And I think Floyd is like that in boxing. Some guys do, while saying that, while acknowledging that, some guys do get soft though. Most guys get soft. I don't remember who said it, who the quote was, but it's hard to be a savage when you're

sleeping on silk sheets. Right. Yeah. I think about it and I only bring it up because it hasn't happened for me because I keep readjusting goals and sorry to bring it back to dieting. I'm hyper concentrating on diet. But I do know that time after time, if my goal was just I want to lose 100 pounds, when I lose 100 pounds and I go, well, I did that, the motivation or the hunger to keep it off. motivation or the hunger to keep it off. It could have just been that my goal wasn't to lose a hundred pounds and keep it off for five years or 10 years or 20 years or whatever, or lose a hundred

pounds for life. My goals were literally just, I'm going to do this diet for four months. And so I think about like a guy, and I have no idea what Connor's goals are, but but like a guy like that who goes like, I'm going to make $100 million. Once you make $100 million, you got to set new fucking goals because he's not fighting the same way that he was, at least in UFC prior to that. Well, yes and no, because he was fighting the same way when he fought Cowboy Cerrone. When he fucked Cowboy up, he was rich as shit.

You have to realize he had $100 million in the bank and he knocked Cowboy's block off. That's true. That fight, it's hard to judge him based on the Dustin Poirier fight because most people tend to look at the end result. You tend to look at how it went down and how the fight ended. And if you look at how the fight ended, you go, oh, Connor Soft. But when I look at it as an analyst, I look at it from the beginning to the end. And one of the best ways to look at it is my brother Daniel Cormier has a thing on ESPN called Detail about that fight. And he shows the first fight and he shows the second fight.

And he shows the adjustments that and he shows the second fight and he shows the adjustments that Dustin Poirier made. And then he shows the difference between the way Conor fought the first fight and Conor fought the second fight. And one of the things is Dustin started kicking the low calf instead of the thigh. In the first fight, he kicked the thigh. It's way easier to absorb a few hard kicks to the thigh than it is a few hard kicks to the calf. The calf, it becomes debilitating almost immediately. One or two good shins slamming into your calf. There's just not enough meat there.

There's a thing called compartment syndrome that happens where your blood pools up in the leg. And there's a guy, you want to get grossed out? There's a guy named Austin Hubbard who fought in the leg. And there's a guy. You want to get grossed out? There's a guy named Austin Hubbard who fought in the UFC. Google compartment syndrome Austin Hubbard. He had a fight in the UFC, and he got his legs kicked to high heaven. And afterwards, they swelled up so bad, they had to split his leg like a banana. To drain it? Yeah.

Look at that. Holy fuck. Holy fuck. Holy fuck. So Austin has this enormous scar leading down his leg, but that's what they had to do with his leg. So they had to open up. His leg was enormously swollen. And they couldn't sew it up, so they have a wound vac sucking the liquid away. Exactly.

Exactly. And it was fucking rough, man. Like, really rough. And they see him. Go to that picture that you got your cursor on. See? That's what his leg looked like. So he's sitting there in the hospital.

After the fight, his one leg is... And Austin fights at 155 pounds, I'm pretty sure. And it says welterweight, Austin Hubbard. Yeah, his name has 155 in it. Oh, I think he's fighting welterweight, and, well, he's fought both, I believe. That's what's going on. But his leg was twice the size of his other leg,

just from swelling and tissue damage. And when you get that compartment syndrome, they have to alleviate the... Look at that one picture. Go back to where you were. Look at that picture in the middle with the two legs split open. I know, but look at that. That go back to where you were look at that picture in the middle with the two legs split them i know but look at that that's an example of compartment syndrome so they have to open you up and figure out a way to drain all that shit so see that

that's in the calf and the compartment syndrome in the calf is uh it happens even more often for whatever reason i spent a lot of time with a wound vac. Yeah. I have a disgusting story. I don't have pictures to show you. Um, not that I would show them if I had the pictures, but I, uh, had loose skin removed in 2008 or maybe 2007. Anyway, somewhere around there. And they tell you like, you you you can't move for a while you got to sit around i had a full cut all the way around 11 pounds of skin yeah and 11 pounds of brisket yeah it's a fucking big brisket dude and this was just flat like it puts the lotion in the basket skin do you have photos of the skin i'm't not accessible right now if i do they're

on a disc somewhere i i did i did i i actually um i don't know why i want to see it i i will send you pictures let's let's google skin removal operation if you want to get really gross and i don't talk about this much because it seems to put people off, but when I was going to have the skin surgery, I told the doctor that I wanted to tan the skin and make trinkets for my friends. And he was so offended by this. He was so gross. And I was like, it's like the most loving gift I can imagine giving somebody, literally a piece of myself. And he was like, I'm Jewish. This offends me on so many levels.

And I was like, I don't even understand what you're saying, but I don't want to do anything to somebody else that's bad and all of that. What about being Jewish makes that? He was like, they made lampshades out of my people. And I was like, okay, I don't want to do that. I want to make keychain bangles for my friends that's a different thing it's a different thing um also illegal in california to make key chains to give somebody their skin you can't do what about toenails toenails that's what i mean

i said i got my wisdom teeth when i had my wisdom teeth pulled they handed me my wisdom teeth i didn't understand very specific about what you can keep and not keep skin is off limits so I donated it to burn research but I was had so much anxiety about sitting still and gaining weight while I was sitting still that I didn't sit still and I fell and tore my side open and had to have a wound vac just like that gentleman for a long time because they can't sew you back up and it's filled fills with fluid and you have to constantly suck the fluid away from the wound why couldn't they sew you back up um i don't know i don't know but i did so much damage falling and tearing my side open that they had to. Fuck.

I had one of those wound backs, yeah. How long did that last for? Months. That's the best I could find. There's some skin that they removed from somebody. Fucking A, man. Jesus Christ. That could be 11 pounds. I mean, that looks like a lot of skin.

It looks a lot. How long was the healing process from all this uh the the entire last season of my name is earl i wore a wound vac that i would take off like as we would start rolling but so it was months and months and months it wouldn't have been if i hadn't fallen and injured myself how long would it have been if you hadn't fallen? Three or four months. Even then that's so long. Yeah. You know, the thing that really scares people about injuries is infections. Yeah. So that's, you had to worry about staff and things along those lines or MRSA, which is really scary. Oh, I was on, um, heavy duty antibiotics, Levaquin, the whole time just to kill bacteria as it came up in case

it was like something I had to take every day, no matter what, in case an infection happened. Wow. Yeah. It sucked. And that wears you out too, right? Antibiotics just make you so tired. Yeah. It was not something I would consider doing again, though I've been a healthy weight with excess skin for years now. Gordon Ryan was in here the other day. He's the greatest jujitsu grappler of all time, right? He's a young kid. 25.

You think he's the greatest of all time? Of all time. Really? Yeah, he's the best. Really? Yeah, he's the best. I know who he is. I just can't believe already at 25 he beats everyone.

This is the consensus. How do we get like Hickson versus him? Well, he's a lot bigger than Hickson, first of all. But obviously Hickson is long past his time. It's a different world. He taps big, giant Brazilian jiu-jitsu world champions. Right. And he puts them in bad

situations and taps them like it's nothing I'm not talking shit and saying he's not great, I'm just saying the greatest of all time is 25 It's extraordinary, it's very unusual You were doing Jiu Jitsu when he was two years old. Exactly, yeah He learned

from John Donaher who's probably the greatest mind in combat sports alive today. Not probably. I think he is. And when I found out that John Donaher, Gary Tonin, who is also one of the greatest grapplers alive, who's also a John Donaher student, has entered into 1FC, which is a mixed martial arts organization in Asia, and he's been incredibly successful. And then I was like well who's his striking coach?

And Gordon's like John Donaher's his striking coach as well. And I was like what? And then I realized like holy shit. You're talking about a guy who used to teach philosophy at Columbia and then became obsessed with Jiu Jitsu. Doesn't have a family, doesn't have a girlfriend. All he does is train fighters and study tape. And I got a chance to talk to him this past weekend,

and every time I talk to him, I'm reminded how fucking brilliant the guy is. He's an extraordinary person. And Gordon, who is a great athlete, who has incredible dedication and discipline, was trained by the greatest mind in combat sports alive today. And maybe the greatest ever. How about that? He might, John Donaher might be the greatest mind in combat sports ever.

And the two of them together, unstoppable combination. So you have genetics, he's a big, strong, tall kid who grew up doing jujitsu right starts jujitsu when he was a kid and then finds john donahue and trains seven days a week and when he's not training he's studying tape and he's examining moves and going over things and he's just fully dedicated they don't take any days off man right that's one of the things we talked about no day i'm like no days off like no when i'm tired i just train light i'm like what in days off? Like, no, when I'm tired, I just train light. I'm like, what in the fuck? He's like, yeah, I might go in and get tapped a few times,

but who gives a shit? If I'm worn out, I just go in and I keep training. He hasn't had an MMA fight. He has not yet, but he has signed for 1FC exclusive for MMA, and they might put him in grappling matches in 1FC as well. 1FC is a really interesting organization because they have kickboxing, they have Muay Thai, so they have regular kickboxing with gloves, with big gloves, boxing gloves.

They have kickboxing with small gloves. They have Muay Thai with small gloves. They have MMA, and apparently they're going to have grappling as well, so they're going to give away a grappling belt, same way they have 1FC belts for all these other disciplines. Did 1FC grow out of Strikeforce? No. No, Strikeforce was purchased by the UFC. Oh.

When was that? A long time ago. Okay. Yeah, UFC bought Strikeforce back in the early 2000s, I believe, because Ronda Rousey actually came from Strikeforce. Okay. Yeah. So when he does do MMA,

if he does do MMA, he has to do it with 1FC. That's where his contract lies. The contract allows him to grapple with 1FC, but grapple everywhere else as well. And the conversation we were having was, he's having a hard time getting opponents. For grappling. For grappling, because no one

wants to get manhandled. They get manhandled. For grappling because no one wants to get manhandled. They get manhandled. Why did I say that that way? Manhandled. He doesn't just manhandle guys. He tells you how he's going to tap them. Like he fought Wagner Rocha, and he wrote on a piece of paper, he wrote a triangle, and he handed it to the guys who were doing commentary,

and he said, open this envelope up after the match is over. That's crazy, and he triangled it. He's fighting a world-class guy. Wagner's a world-class guy. He fights this guy, triangles him, and he said he was going to manhandle him for a long time because apparently the guy fucked with him when he was 19. He's going to manhandle him for a long time because he apparently, the guy fucked with him when he was 19. He's going to manhandle him for a long time and then triangle him.

And that's exactly what he did. And they had a match a long time ago. And the difference between, like, several years ago, the difference between that match and today is stark. Like, Gordon is that much better. He continues to grow at this crazy rate and get better at this crazy rate. These other guys are recognizing, like, not only is he the best guy alive, but he's so much better than he was a year ago. He's so much better than he was a year before that.

He's better than he was six weeks ago. He just keeps getting better. And he's only 25. So when you're 25, you just keep getting better. And he's training seven days a fucking week he gets up in the morning he lifts weights he does mma training and then he does jiu-jitsu and then he eats and he goes to sleep and he does it all over again and they moved to puerto rico so they could do it because new york city was shutting down the gyms right so they're like okay we'll

go over here yeah like we're not gonna stop like we have a we're not gonna take a year off get the fuck out of here yeah so they just went to puerto rico that's exciting i can't wait to see him fight mma um i'm excited about that but honestly i'm just as excited about him fighting and grappling and i think but like who who do you want to see him fight that's what's interesting with one fc i think they have a promotional machine behind them with financial backing that might incentivize people to compete against him. So they might be able to talk some other elite grapplers who are also heavyweights to get in there and risk getting tapped. Because this is what they want to avoid. Because he had a match with Cyborg, Roberto Abreu, who's a huge fucking powerhouse of a man,

like multiple-time world champion. And Cyborg is widely respected as being one of the top grapplers alive. Gordon trapped him early on, got him in a heel hook and tapped him out. And when people saw Cyborg get tapped out so easily by Gordon, they're like, holy shit. It just, it's changed the game. Yeah. And these guys- How big is he? Cyborg, 240. No, no, Gordon. Gordon, 220. Oh, he's really big. He's big. He's a big kid. And this is the thing,

we got to this whole, we got to Gordon from this conversation about staph infection. So Gordon had this reoccurring staph infection over and over and over again. He kept taking these antibiotics and he developed a stomach issue. I forget what it's called. But the stomach issue does not allow him to consume a bunch of different foods without getting nauseous. He's nauseous all the time. Yeah.

He can only consume small amounts of food too. And to maintain his mass to be 220 pounds, he's got to like eat a lot of food yeah he can only eat like white rice chicken fish and a couple other things and no oils or greases or anything like that i mean in fairness that sounds like a pretty healthy diet not a bad diet but he can't eat like the amount that he wants what's it it called? Gastroparesis. Paresis? Gastroparesis. So this is it, which means partial paralysis of the stomach is a disease which the stomach cannot empty itself of food in a normal way.

If you have this condition, damaged nerves and muscles don't function with their normal strength and coordination, slowing the movement of the contents through your digestive system. And they think that that happened because of the continual use of oral antibiotics just over and over and over again. He's on this stuff and it eventually fucked up his stomach. And is the staph infection under control? Staph infection is under control, but now he's got this gastroparesis.

Gastroparesis. Still, he can't shake it. That sucks, dude. It does suck. That really sucks. Still the best. Still, he can't shake it. That sucks, dude. It does suck. That really sucks. Still the best. Still the best. Still the best.

He can't eat what he wants, and he's still the best. Still with his fucked up stomach thing, because he thinks that if he didn't have the stomach thing, because of his steady weightlifting and everything, he thinks he can get up to 240, where he thinks he can dominate people even more. Jesus fucking Christ, dude. And he's a big kid. When you see the size of him, he's a big kid. I mean, I think it's probably accurate

he'd need to eat a lot more and maybe chicken and rice and vegetables isn't going to cut it maybe you know larger calories larger portions but it's just I love outliers I really do I just love

exceptional human beings who can figure out things like that gets me excited I just love exceptional human beings who can figure out things like that. I do too. Gets me excited. I love when there's a dude who's just so far ahead of the curve. And when you're talking about Hickson, that was how everybody felt about Hickson when Hickson was in his prime. And Hickson was the same way.

He was training every day. And Hickson's special thing was yoga. Because Hickson had this crazy physicality and flexibility that these other jiu-jitsu guys did not have. And also this insane understanding of positions and insane understanding of the language of the interactions of human bodies in grappling exchanges. He just knew how to grapple in a way that other guys just did not. And a lot of it was just based on just repetition over and over and over and over again. And the fact that he was stronger than the other Gracies. So he got more taps in than they did. And that's how guys get really much better. Like a guy who's like physically stronger and a guy who, uh, who like

Eddie Bravo always says that if you really want to get good, strangle blue belts. And it's really true because you get more taps in when you're doing this. More reps. Yeah, you get more reps in. And that's what happened with Hickson. He was just better than everybody else and more physical. And it's one of the reasons why, there's a couple reasons why Horry and Gracie, who created the UFC, wanted Hoyce to compete rather than Hickson.

One was that he couldn't control Hickson because Hickson doesn't, he don't listen to anybody but Hickson. Right. And the other one was that Hoyce was less physically impressive. Like when you saw Hickson, you've seen Hickson. Yeah. With his shirt off. I mean, he looks like a fucking assassin. He looks like an adonis yeah i mean he was beautiful yeah truly beautiful he had perfect features he was so handsome and hoist compared to him was like a scrawny little

guy yes so hoist was a better example a better it was a better demonstration more impressive certainly yeah in that way and the idea was that they would use hoist until hoist lost and if hoist ever lost then they bring in hickson then everybody's fucked assassinate yeah but hickson went over to japan and won the japan valley tudor and became a giant star in japan and then he fought in Coliseum, and he fought in Pride. And I think Coliseum was his last fight. And if I'm going to be accurate, I want to say it was the year 2000. I think that was Hickson's last hurrah. So who today – I didn't mean Hickson should fight him now.

No, no, of course. But at the time, the version of Hickson versus the version of Gordon Ryan today. And so we can't even play that game. Who today do you want to see Gordon fight? Well, I'd love to see Cyborg again. I think that would be an interesting fight because Cyborg still, now Cyborg and him did have one other match, and Cyborg was disqualified for slapping Gordon in the head repeatedly. Yeah.

Yeah. Which looked like a fucking bitch thing to do, too, to be honest with you. Yeah. He just, you know. Get frustrated. Get frustrated. They get emotional. I mean, Gordon talks so much shit, too.

Really? But meanwhile, it didn't bother him that he was getting smacked. He just kept rolling. I mean, his ultimate goal was to get Cyborg to engage with him and tap him out again. I mean, his ultimate goal was to get Cyborg to engage with him and tap him out again. Yeah. And Cyborg was very defensive and used a lot of slaps and was very physical. There's some guys.

Pena is really good. There's a lot of guys in the heavyweight division that are elite grapplers. But the thing is, like, a lot of them don't want to risk getting tapped. Right. That's what the thing is. That's the thing. They just don't want to risk getting tapped. Right. That's what the thing is. That's the thing. They just don't want to risk having happen to them what happened to Wagner Rocha. Yeah.

But then if they put enough money, people will start to risk that. If they put enough money. And that's the argument about something like 1FC. Is that 1FC might have the financial means to goad maybe some judo champions and some elite grapplers in other disciplines and make it a big deal and do it in a stadium. Who knows? Because if you're doing it at one of those big 1FC shows, once they have audiences again, I don't think they're having – I think the UFC is the first combat sports organization,

in mixed martial arts at least, to start having full stadiums again. And so the one that we did a couple of weeks ago in Jacksonville, Florida, was a full stadium, which is pretty fucking nuts. Yeah. It was wild, man. I'm so glad it's coming back. The electricity in the crowd is fucking tangible. It's crazy. I liked what they were doing in, was it Dubai or Qatar or something?

It was Abu Dhabi Abu Dhabi Yeah, that's that was awesome. But it definitely felt from a audience perspective to be a little bit lacking without yeah The feeling of crowd. Yeah. Well, they kept the sport going though. That's what they did Yeah, yeah, they kept the sport alive and they allowed fans to come back in a limited capacity in Abu Dhabi for the Conor fight I forget how many they had rules again to have a negative negative COVID test either day of or day before or something like that there so there was some rules to get in there and I don't think it was full capacity but it was quite a few people but um when they fight again it'll be in july at the t-mobile arena in vegas and barring some sort of crazy outbreak of covet again it should be full capacity it'll be wild yeah it's

exciting yeah it is it's uh it's a crazy sport man there's nothing like it really is nothing like it yeah i i never was super into boxing. It was the only thing that seemed to just be more entertaining. I enjoyed watching it more, and I like combat. Yeah, I like boxing too. I'm not shitting on boxing. It just was not my thing. I know you're not. I like boxing too, but yeah, MMA, it's more dynamic.

There's more involved. There's more options. It's more exciting. And it more involved. There's more options. It's more exciting. And it ends more suddenly, more often. You know, like if you watch the UFC fight last weekend or two weekends ago. Last weekend, this past weekend, this Prohaska. How do you say it?

Prohaska. I think that's how you say his name. Yuri Prohaska. Did you see that fight? Bro, that guy is a monster. He's a real problem. He's this guy from the Czech Republic, this big fucking crazy striker who fights wild,

and he just comes straight at you and puts it on you in this wild way where he just throws himself at fighters and forces them into these dogfights. And he got tagged. He got rocked in the fight at one point in time, but then he knocked Dominic Reyes out with a spinning elbow, and it was just face plant out cold. And Dominic Reyes is a guy who went five hard rounds with Jon Jones, and then he got stopped by Jan Blachowicz, and then he got stopped by Jan Bohovic,

and then he got really fucked up by Prohaska. Yeah. It's going to be fucking wild. Is Jon Jones going to come back and fight? Supposedly he's going to fight in the heavyweight division, and supposedly he's going to fight Francis Ngannou. But it's not done. It's not done.

And Francis Ngannou, if Jon and the UFC don't make an agreement, then Francis is going to fight Derek Lewis, who is the last guy to beat him in a decision. That's a fun fight, too. Fuck, yeah. Derek is terrifying. Derek's terrifying. Derek is the only guy that can knock guys out as impressively maybe even more so than

francis yeah because he face planted curtis blaze with one punch you know derrick can knock any man out any man any man alive he's so big derrick is huge yeah so he's a 200 natural 265 pounder too and he's just got a a real knack for knocking people unconscious. And what he said about Francis said if we fight again, he's going to knock them the fuck out. Right. Which is crazy. If he knocked Francis out, that would be full on bananas.

Yeah. And Derek has the ability. He really can knock anyone out. And if Francis has to fight Derek, he has to be much more careful than he was against D-Bay because Derek is a one-punch guy. Like, one punch can change everything. So that'll be fun.

Either way, I'm in for all of them no matter what. So why'd you stop? What is this here? Oh, yeah, this is the spinning elbow. Watch this. I mean, fuck, dude. Crazy. That's insane.

Yeah, he's something special. It's not just that, man. It's all the other stuff that he did in the fight as well, and it's the pace that he set. He has crazy cardio, and he's a wild guy, like real wild. Like even after the fight, he was upset with himself for getting hit he's like oh i got really caught i don't think it was a masterpiece he was talking crazy he's like he's a wild like sort of a interesting person like the way he thinks and you know it's just and the way

he fights is not like anybody else yeah he just goes right at you yeah he just puts it on you he's gonna give people trouble he's gonna give everybody Yeah. I mean. Is that his first fight in the UFC? Second fight. Second fight. Okay. Yeah. His first fight, he fought Ozdemir. Volkan Ozdemir.

Knocked him the fuck out too, which is crazy. What is that weight class? Ozdemir is scary. 205. 205. Okay. Ozdemir is scary. Ozdemir is a serious knockout puncher, and he slept him.

Yeah. I mean, both guys, flatlines. Have you seen that fightlines I'm you seen that fight I'm looking at his record right now everything he has is a ko yeah Wow one decision here yeah bro retirement TKO head and yeah everything he's a monster he's a monster yeah one draw super create asking why I stopped training yeah why stop training i i started training uh more with force multipliers so i i uh i was doing a tv show and the character i was playing was based on a

real dude who his job is to train tier one guys in edge weapons blades knives and stuff like that and tom kyer is his name he's a real guy. He's fucking awesome. And I just kind of moved over to the idea. Obviously, I think that all of this stuff is super beneficial and good to keep up with. But when I think about getting into a fight, I have four kids. Two are in college. They're all girls. I have a feel very protective of them, but I'm not, I'm not going to bars and putting myself in situations

where I'm going to have like a street fight. And so when I would think about that, I would think like, what would the circumstances be to require me to have some kind of a physical altercation? And it always came down to their lives or my wife's life was in danger. And then it just led to the idea of weapons, basically. And so I started training with weapons. You train with pistols? Yeah. I shoot USPSA.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. So you're serious. I mean, I like training. I don't know how serious I am. I also live in California, so everything becomes more difficult out there.

Right. Carrying a fixed blade is more illegal than carrying a pistol in California. Is it really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. It's a felony to conceal carry a fixed blade knife. It is a misdemeanor to conceal carry a pistol in California.

These are California's laws. So all these things become difficult to train with this stuff. But I also am mostly at my house, and it's not illegal to carry anything at your house. Right. Have you ever gone to like a tactical course and done like Terran tactical? I haven't done Terran tactical, but I've trained with guys like Bill Rapier, Kyle DeFore. These guys were all in dev group for a long time. And I've trained with those dudes.

It's interesting the attitude about guns in California and how it shifted post-COVID, isn't it? Ooh, guns sold out during COVID. By the way, there's a national bullet shortage. Yeah, it's real hard to get bullets. Yeah. Yeah, but wasn't it interesting like how, I don't know if this is the case with you, well, people who never talked about guns all of a sudden started inquiring about guns. And I'm sure if people know that you train with guns, they probably question you about

it. Like, hey man, how are you getting there? I had a lot of calls like, I should get a gun. I'm going to get a gun. And my answer to every one of these people was like please go do a course first go do a gun safety course at least learn you know um i wouldn't like i'm not even taking a position on like what's right and wrong as far as the law goes or you know if we should have more or less regulations but like i i wanted my friends to to at least be able to operate it safely before they

had it in their house yes and and know how to keep it safe yeah yeah just make make sure that they're locked up and nobody can just get to them easily yeah all that stuff is very very tricky i had a friend asked me to borrow a gun and i was like, are you fucking crazy? There's no way. Yeah. I've had that conversation too. And many other friends that I have that have had guns have also had those conversations with other people. Yeah. When they've asked them, it's apparently a common thing. Yeah.

You know, I know you have more than one gun. Like, bitch, I'm not going to jail. Yeah. I'm not getting in trouble. Yeah. Because that's illegal. That's really, it's legal for me to have more than one gun. It's not legal for me to give one in trouble. Yeah. Cause that's illegal. That's really, it's legal for me to have more than one gun. It's not legal for me to give one to you.

Yeah. And, and I just think like a person who has no knowledge or experience with that, I don't want to be a part of handing them something. But just the first time you shoot a gun and you realize how loud it is and how much kick it has, like, ah,

you don't even know how to aim it. Like you need to learn, you know? Uh, it has. Like, ah! Yeah, it's a lot. And you don't even know how to aim it. Right. You need to learn, you know? I remember the first time I ever went to a gun range was actually the first time I moved to California. I bought a gun and went to the range because you couldn't get a gun in New York. Yeah. And you could get – it's easier to get a gun out here than it is in New York. And when I went to the range, I remember walking in here and bang, bang, bang. And you feel – And you're you feel like whoa it made you feel

so vulnerable yeah and you realize like wow that's what bullets sound like yeah little explosions yeah little explosions and then once you do it and you pull the trigger a few times and hit targets you're like holy shit yeah it's fun um I i you know i this is another place where where people get so divided um and and i just think it comes down to like preferences and values and and i hear people argue about it and i'm like sounds like people are arguing about flavors of ice cream to me because it's like i like like this. I don't like this. And what I like, you should like. And it's, you know, it's a weird thing to think about.

Well, people don't like the argument that if you take guns away, then you'll be helpless against a tyrannical government. That is a slippery one with people. They're like, well, oh, come on. You think that's going to happen? Oh, come on. Right. And I'm like, no, I don't think it's going to happen. But I like the senator who said the U.S. government has nukes talking about like how people with firearms at home couldn't defend themselves against the U.S. government. Yeah. And I just wish I could point out to that guy that neither Vietnam or Afghanistan had nukes.

They didn't have much of anything, and they seem to do pretty well against the U.S. government. Yeah, that's a good argument. But Afghanistan, obviously, it's a terrain issue. Right. Yeah. But they don't have nukes. No. No, but if we used one on Afghanistan, that would be a wrap.

Right. I don't think the U.S. government is going to use nukes on U.S. people. No. It's a dumb argument. I know. But people try to do those things because they're actually trying to run an argument. They're not trying to be rational. Yeah.

They're trying to say something that would work. Right. Like, ta-da, gotcha. Yeah. We won. The U.S. government won. Four aces. Yeah. We won. The US government won. Four aces. Yeah.

It's, you don't want to ever think that the government could go south and become tyrannical, but it could. Sure. And it might not with this organization, with this administration rather, but it might with three administrations from now. And I can say that with all sincerity. I'm not being hyperbolic. I'm just looking at what happened over the last year with COVID and not necessarily even in

America. Look what's going on in Canada. When you see 200 cops show up because these people are having a church service and they've decided you can't gather. And so 200 cops show up at a church like i'm is that what are you doing what's going on there like that seems kind of fucking crazy it seems like there's an overreach and like what if this overreach extends now we're talking about a disease that kills a very small percentage of people it's all tragic everyone who dies it's a tragedy. No argument there. Sad no matter what. But what if it's a disease that kills 10% of the people? What if it's 20?

If they see you outside your house, are they going to shoot you to protect other people? Are they going to treat you like you're a zombie? The argument breaks down because we're now worried about the total loss of life. And we're now worried about the total loss of life. When we had the lockdown, it was because of potential medical infrastructure collapse. That was why we couldn't risk the hospitals being overfilled. Now, I understand that because if the hospitals, if that infrastructure collapses, that's devastating to the country. Right. structure collapses, that's devastating to the country. Right. 78%, and I thought it was 80, you corrected me earlier, 78% of the people who were hospitalized

for COVID were obese. We're not allowed to tell anybody to lose weight, but if they did, we would certainly, and I'm not saying it would be one for one, but we would certainly reduce the need for hospitalization. So all of these things are values. Yeah. Bill Maher had a great bit about that. He had a great piece about Michelle Obama when Obama was president.

Michelle Obama had some get out and move campaign. Right. And that if something similar was employed during the Trump administration during COVID, we could have gotten people healthier and said. But I don't think they necessarily knew at the time. I think it took a few months before they recognized that obesity was one of the main comorbidity factors. But vitamin D is another big one. Which they took away by keeping us inside. Yeah.

Most people need vitamin D, even if you go outside, though, unfortunately, because you're wearing clothes and you don't want to get skin cancer. Right. So we've been programmed to think that you have to – you can't be exposed. You have to put sunscreen on, which is fucking gnarly chemicals, right? But vitamin D, in one study at least, 84% of the people in the ICU with COVID had insufficient levels of vitamin D, and only 4% had sufficient levels, which is really crazy. I mean, that's obviously, it doesn't mean it protects you 100%, but it's a strong factor. And then when you look at the national numbers, I think 79% of the population in total has insufficient levels of vitamin D. It is a real problem because it's a hormone and it's a hormone that your body best produces when you're out in the sun, but you don't get it any other way unless you supplement.

Right. You don't get it from your diet. You don't get it from anything. It doesn't exist in foods. You literally have to take it as a supplement. Why is this not pushed as a value? Yeah, why is it not pushed as a value? The New York Times recently had a piece that they put about how people who exercise regularly, it's a strong factor in not having COVID in a severe case and recovering from it quicker. This is another thing that doesn't get discussed.

All that gets discussed is, you know, locking down, vaccinations, all these different things when it should be a many multi-tiered approach to getting people healthier. But it's hard to tell people to be healthy. It's like what we were talking about before, like hearing you talk about the emotional pain involved in being overweight before you decided to take these incredible steps and this amazing result, it makes you think like, man, like it's hard to tell someone, especially someone like me who's never really been fat, it's hard to tell someone that you have to lose weight. So if the government started doing it, and goddammit, there's so many snowflakes today,

if they did start doing it, people would be freaking the fuck out. Like, what do you say? You're injuring me with your words! You're causing violence with your words! But did you know that also there's a movement that links the idea of

diet culture to racism also? In any form? What? Yeah. How do they do that? Apparently, there was a kind of somewhat of a predilection amongst black men to favor larger women. women and so in order to shame that whole group for their race this is what the theory is that diet culture grew out of that is this part of critical race theory yes don't they just find everything i suppose i suppose so i i i just think just think it becomes very dangerous to encourage people to lose weight.

And for me, I understand health was not my main driving motivation. I mean, today, it's a big part of it. 20 years ago, it wasn't even 5%. There's a real problem with, there's a culture of call out in this country. There's a real problem with there's a culture of call out in this country. There's a culture of attack vectors. They're looking for a reason that you're bad or you're wrong or you're guilty or you're responsible for something, whether you are or you aren't. And then if you are saying this publicly, and one of the problems with social media is even if what you're saying doesn't necessarily make sense, you can get enough fucking people to agree with you and they'll pile on. And then the person who is in this debate is an individual and they get attacked by enormous amounts of people.

And it's a bad proposition. And for the person that gets attacked, it feels like the walls are closing in on you. Like, oh my God. Like, I know people that are like very educated intelligent people and then they espouse something online that goes against the mob and they get attacked and it wrecks them it wrecks them emotionally and i've seen it happen i'm like man you got to stay offline yeah like just get out of there like don't but i can't help i'm to defend myself like but you don't have to defend yourself i mean brilliant people who've like like wrecked vacations because they check something on Twitter where someone was attacking them.

They spent all their vacation time in the hotel room crafting a response like, man, don't do it. Don't do it. But it's a part of this weird culture that we find ourselves in where people realize that's an ineffective thing. If you have an opinion that I don't agree with, we will attack that opinion. And then a bunch of people who agree with your perspective will pile on to it. And it's a natural inclination people have when you see someone vulnerable to pile on. It's an animal thing. You see it with other animals.

When a wolf is cowering from the other wolves, they'll all attack that wolf and fuck it up. It's a natural instinct to see weakness and to attack or to sense vulnerability and attack. And that is playing itself out in social media. You see it with people. So if someone says that diet culture is racist, I agree. And then next thing you know. Or whatever. Or whatever.

It's toxic or whatever it's it's toxic or whatever whatever it is i again i don't give a shit if people want to be overweight and they're overweight but for anybody who wants to lose weight and and has failed and is struggling and there's a conversation to be had you can talk about it there's a conversation to be had but i think it has to be had maybe through someone who's actually done it. And I think you have an amazing position because what you've done is incredible. It took a long time. It took an amazing amount of work, and it changed who you are as a human being.

You're more confident. You have more energy. You're far healthier. You look amazing. And you look at those pictures of who you were and who you are now you are a guy who can speak to it in a way that I can't you know for very fortunate reasons

my family ate healthy when I was young I have good genetics and I worked out from the time I was a kid I've never stopped working out so I've never really had an issue like that but fuck I could have if i was you that's like what we were talking about earlier like when someone said i can never do what you do but you could if you were me right and that's sapolsky that's determinism that's it's real man

it's hard for people to recognize that but i think overall in general we need to be way more compassionate with each other and one way is to recognize that you don't exist the way you are because you just decide this is the way to be. And it's real clear. And I'm going to fuck people over. And I'm going to do this. And this is who I am. Period. Fuck off.

No, you just become that person over a long period of time. And I was explaining this to someone recently, and I've said it more than once, but it bears repeating that when I had children, it changed who I am as a person because then I started to think of people as babies. I never thought of people as babies. If I met a guy and he was a 40-year-old asshole,

I'm like, there's Tom, that 40-year-old asshole. Right. I never thought, oh, Tom used to be a baby and he was this cute little kid, but his parents fought around him. And then maybe he got spanked too much when he did things wrong and he didn't even understand what was going on. And maybe his brother beat the shit out of him. Maybe went to school with kids who bullied him. And then, you know, maybe he fucking got arrested and did time in jail for something he didn't do. And next thing you know, here's Tom, the 40-year-old asshole that's giving me a hard time at the

gas station. And I'm thinking about flatlining Tom. I'm like, motherfucker. Like, you think of people as who they are now. Yeah. You know, and I think we would all be better off if we just recognized that, like, everybody's path is different. And if someone came out fucked up

There's that old saying right hurt people hurt people that shit's real it is my fear with determination and and I Amin ism determinism. Sorry and I'm I Think with it all the time, but and I think doesn't absolve you it exactly it can it can be this thing where I go like well My experience has led me to here, so this is it. And I think that you can create experiences that can lead you in another direction. Right. how we're not just a singular thing. Like I have, and not in a schizophrenic way, but many voices in my head at all times saying like,

drink this water, don't drink this water, have a nicotine mint. You want a McRib, the McRib is bad. Eat the McRib. No, I'm going to have chicken and rice. Like these voices exist. So like make a decision and pick an eye. And then there are various ways that we can go about like accomplishing stuff if we don't try to accomplish everything in a day, I think. So I get scared and

I don't think this is the point of Sapolsky, but I think it's easy to hear that and to go like, everything led me to this point. I'm a product of all of this i cannot beat it right that's my fear with that and i and i and so i go like there's got to be some middle ground between the two between free will and recognizing all of that you know it really does and i think that's where also where communication comes in and that recognition that human beings don't exist in a vacuum. We're all in this together. And we need each other to check each other, to recognize when our behavior is off, and then to be kind about it. To let people know, like, hey, you've made a mistake here.

You fucked this up. have made a mistake here. You fucked this up. And for that person to recognize that this person is reaching out with kindness and then respond in turn with kindness and say, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to. I understand that I did something incorrect. And we can do that. It's the opposite of call out culture, right? It's like, it's a kindness culture. It's like a compassion culture. That's what we really need in response. And unfortunately, some really intelligent people who are well-meaning, they think they're doing the right thing, are involved in this sort of cancel culture thing where they're attacking people. And it's bad for everybody. It's bad for them too, because they kind of feel what they're doing while they're doing it. It gives you a very low opinion of yourself. Because if you're a person

that's piling on on someone, you don't think of yourself as being a hero or some sort of courageous or enlightened person. You just. That group often eats its own too. They do, always. So it's like a dangerous group to be in. Yeah, it's a product in many ways of social media

because it's a shit way to communicate with texts online like that. It's just not healthy. Yeah. It's not. And it's not wise to participate in it. It's not wise to dwell on it when it happens to you. It's not wise to go back and forth. And I don't think it's wise if we continue this. I think it's bad for us as a culture and as a civilization. And again, you got to forgive the people that are involved in it as well. I don't think they're bad people. I just think it's a bad decision. And I think it's a simple, easy decision, just like it's a simple, easy decision to eat the craft service.

It's right there, but it's not the wise thing to do. And we need more people communicating about all these things that we're talking about. And we needed to be a big part of the conversation of what it means to be a person in today's society. Because you can delve into processed foods. You can get into harmful drugs. You can get into all sorts of things that can fuck yourself up. Or you can decide like, you know what, I kind of recognize that this has never served me in the past. I've seen all these errors I've made up to this point. And I'm going to choose now to move forward with a different ideal and with different ethics and different morals.

And I'm going to try to be a better person. And I'm going to try to treat other people the way I would like to be treated. way I would like to be treated, not pile on them on social media or attack them for some shit that they might or might have gotten incorrect or whatever, but instead to just recognize like this is a terrible way to treat someone you care about. We should care about everybody. You would never pile on one of your friends on social media, right? No way. Of course.

So why would you just do it to anybody? on social media, right? No way. Of course. So why would you just do it to anybody? It doesn't mean you shouldn't be critical of certain things and certain things demand critical thinking and they demand criticism because it allows the other person to recognize that they've erred and that other people see things from a different perspective than they do. But you don't get that from insulting people and being shitty and mean and that is more common than not That's the majority of these interactions It's like people trying to find people who have erred or people who are worthy of attack and then going after them Yeah, and I find that people that I could have total disagreement with on any of these things if I sit down and have a

Conversation and try to see their point of view I often. And I often have empathy and suddenly they're a real person. But if I take my understanding of them based on something I read or off a tweet or something like this, or how they're discussed amongst other groups of people, then it just becomes like the other. And I want nothing to do with them and they're scary and I won't talk to them intentionally. And this, this to me is non-optimal. This is not the way to. The other is a fucking real weird inclination that we have to treat people. And this is why war is so awful, right? Because the people are really capable of simple, easy dehumanization of entire races of people, entire countries, nations of people.

They just decide, fuck the krauts. We're dropping bombs. Fuck these people. We're going to put them in internment camps. Fuck these people. It's crazy. Yeah. Politics today really looked like the Catholics fighting the Protestants to me,

where you're just like, wait, what are you guys really fighting about right you guys are real close we're just so tribal man humans are so tribal it is built into our signals it's built into our what we are we evolved in tribes and we evolved to be fearful of other tribes and as other tribes are gonna do you damage and steal your resources and kill you. Yeah. And we haven't gotten past that. And the only way to get past that, I mean, you have to go on a journey, man. You have to, you have to figure out for yourself and each person's personal journey. It's like, think about your personal journey to lose the amount of weight

that you did. Fuck. Imagine trying to tell someone who's 500 pounds, this is what you're going to have to do. It's going to take years. And then you're going to work on it for a few more years to try to fucking dial it in once you've done it. And then the seesaw. Yeah. Like when you went back and forth and back and forth. I mean, imagine like you gained a hundred pounds at one point in time, right?

Back. Multiple times. Imagine. Try and tell someone about these problems that you're going to encounter. How about this? I had loose skin removed, fell, injured myself, tore my side open, and then gained 100 pounds. Jesus. Yeah.

Dude, that's fucking real. That's fucking real. Everybody's journey, this journey to be the optimal version of yourself, everyone's journey is very different. And we're all in this together. That's, that's the biggest message. And if you think you're not, you're fucked. You're, you're fucked.

If you think we're not in this together, if you think you're on your own, you're, you're, you're autonomous and fuck the world. Okay. Good luck with that, dude. Right. good luck. You're not gonna be happy. We're most happy when we're in this together We're most happy when we're cut when you can work out a disagreement with someone One of my favorite things about fights is when they hug afterwards. Yeah I love it, especially if they talk shit in the beginning and then they grab their hands came in a hug you motherfucker I love you and I love it, I really do.

I love fights too, but it's very contradicting. I don't see that enough with the Diaz boys. I wish they were hugging people a little bit more. They talk a lot of shit and they're so angry and I love them, but I want to see every now and again them hug the guy.

Well, him and Conor hugged after their second fight. That's true. Nate did. Yeah, they're hard people, man. Yeah, the friendship that comes out of resolving conflict is a beautiful friendship. If you can let things go. People have to learn how to not hold grudges, man. Not holding grudges is a beautiful thing.

It's a beautiful virtue. Just to let it go. Just let grudges is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful virtue. You know, and just to let it go. Just let it go. We're all flawed. We're all people. Yeah. You know? And we can do this.

Yeah. It can be done, but it takes work. You know, and I'm not good at it all the time either. You know, I'm talking a lot of shit right now, but sometimes I'm an angry person as well. And, like, I came here straight from the gym, so I feel great. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And that's part of it. I went from the gym so i feel great yeah you know yeah and that's i went to the gym this morning too yeah that's part of it like i worked out all my

shit yeah but if you caught me like three days in a row no gym who knows man maybe i maybe like fuck them and fuck this and and i have an inclination towards that i have an inclination towards aggression and say fuck you and fuck this and fuck that. And I try real hard to avoid that inclination and to get better. And it's not better in like one fell swoop. It's like, I don't learn it from one mistake and now I'm better. It's like, I need to make a gang of mistakes and keep recognizing that I made those mistakes and better. And I think we need to have that leeway, not just personally for ourselves, because we, you know, generally, if you're healthy, you try to give yourself a little leeway for mistakes. We need to have that leeway for other people.

And I was thinking about this on the way over here. I was thinking about felons, like felons that can't vote. Like you get arrested when you're 17 for robbing a bank, and then you can never vote for the rest of your life. Does that make sense? I mean, we could just take what our mutual friend Michael Malice has to say about voting and talk about how all votes are an act of violence or they're all illegal and nobody should be voting at all. He's crazy. Michael is just, he's such a freak. There's no one like Michael Malice.

I love that guy. He's such a freak there's no one like Michael Malice I love that guy he's such a fun dude but he's also like he's so smart that he can argue these really untenable positions like there should be no police there's no police I'm like bro I'll steal everything you have if there's no police what are you talking about what if I'm a bad guy no of course not me if I was a bad guy

for sure I think about this sometimes and I think about like you go back to ancient Rome and there weren't explicit laws against murder. Eventually, and I mean like 700 years into the Roman Empire, they made laws about killing slaves because they were just like people are killing too many slaves. You shouldn't just kill your slaves. But that took a long time. Up until then, it wasn't like people were just killing. Like there was murder. It happened.

But it wasn't like chaos of people killing right and left. I think of like people in jail for murder. And I think we have laws against murder and people still murder. And I don't know that I've never murdered somebody because there's a law. I just don't want to murder people. But I think we're different now than we were back then, just because the moral environment that we're evolving in, so many people are communicating about the sadness of losing loved ones. And you see it. It's more personal. That information reaches you. Whereas back then, again, they were the information reaches you whereas back then again they were the

other if you murdered someone they were the other yeah you know i think it's there's certain things though like you take a child's life you know you stab a child like i don't i can't ancient rome yeah the parents were allowed to kill their kids oh my god really it was up to the parents and and there were some rules about um if the kid was really disfigured you had to kill it oh my god there were some like strong inclinations oh so if the child was born disfigured yeah but like i mean there i forget exactly the language but like yeah that was left up to the family if the father and mother decided so they find like um pits and they were basically just buried at the house uh pits where over hundreds of years tons of kids

were just getting buried because potentially they were killed by their family. That's rough. That's not how we live today. Well, the Spartans, didn't they take some babies that were weak and they just leave them in the woods? Yeah. Fucking A, man. It was a different time. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not advocating for any of that. No, of course. I hope that's clear. No, of course. Yeah. Well, if you look at Steven Pinker's work, when he talks about violence over the course of history you know it's a lot less yeah a lot less and people want to think about the world today as opposed to the world of the past they

want to make this you know this judgment that today's filled with monsters and assholes and you know society's fucked like it's the best time to live ever, ever. But wasn't it always? Yes. Every time that people have ever been, right. Except the dark ages. Yeah.

Yeah. That was rough. There were some times where the shit hit the fan. Or a severe famine, you know, the Dutch winter famine. That was a rough thing. Black plague.

Yeah. It's probably better a couple of years before the plague. Yeah. And then after. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, brother,

we just did more than three fucking hours. I love it. Joe, my wife will yell at me if I don't say, I do have a podcast called American Glutton where all we talk about is diet. So if anybody's interested, please tune in. And it's on iTunes, Spotify, everywhere? All those things. All right, beautiful.

Dude, thank you so much, man. Thank you. I really appreciate it. That was an awesome conversation. I've been a fan for years. Thanks, brother. I'm a fan of yours, too. Can we do this again? I would love to. Let's do it again. Yes. All right. Bye, thank you so much, man. Thank you. I really appreciate it. That was an awesome conversation. I've been a fan for years. Thanks, brother. I'm a fan of yours, too. Can we do this again?

I would love to. Let's do it again. Yes. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.