The Joe Rogan Experience - #1647 - Dave Chappelle

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

Dave Chappelle is a comedian, actor, writer, and producer. He is the recipient of multiple honors, among them the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, and several Grammy Awards. He's the co-host, along with Talib Kweli and Yasiin Bey, of "The Midnight Miracle" podcast, scheduled to release in May.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day oh hello david hello joe how are you what's going on with your mask man no i just fucking with you i just want to see how you react all this rona talk All this Rona talk Sick of it Yeah Yeah Headphones or no headphones?

Oh I'll do the phones Okay There you go I just don't want to be the only one Nah nah it's all good Here I turn them up right here Yeah Check check check

Here we go What's up fingers? He's over there typing Every few minutes he goes like this Let's go Let's do this shit So first of all man Congratulations

You're the first guy to beat the system You're the first guy to get fucked over By the system Go public with it And then get your money I've never heard it happen before I don't think it's ever happened before Bro

Bro I still can't wrap my mind around it But I do have to shout out uh chris mccarthy over at cbs viacom that guy you know when we were working this out his approach was someone who was actually trying to resolve something came through it was amazing man it's amazing it's a it's a happy ending because usually those artists gripes they never get resolved not not to where the artist feels comfortable or happy with it. Right.

They always feel bitter and angry. They got fucked over and someone else is a producer and they're making millions of dollars off of your work and they continue to sell it and make money off of it. Well, I could say with a high degree of honesty, not to say I was never angry about it but I don't think I was ever like bitter by this point in my life I wasn't you were you would joke about it you were angry about it but you not to the point where it fucked with your head but you would joke about it well I mean you know you know the bottom line is no matter what happens to you you gotta keep going you gotta keep going and bitterness is quite cumbersome. Yeah, it's bad for you.

Right. So, you know, jokes is a way of shaking that off or processing something with the alchemy of levity. Yeah. Holding grudges, bitterness, shit's very bad for you. It doesn't ever help. No. And now we're getting on in age. You know what I mean? When we were younger, it was fine to hold a grudge.

You didn't realize that, you know. You didn't realize it was fucking with you what is that another expression that it's about oh it's about jealousy the jealousy is the only poison that that affects the container that's holding it right that's exactly right yeah but bitterness the same thing same thing yeah it's not good yeah it's just not good for you you got to be able to let shit go yeah i mean but in your case you made a ploy like you you you said what happened how you felt about it and they were like he's right i think yeah let's give him the money it wasn't it wasn't a court of law i don't believe i would have got anything it's kind of amazing

in a court of law i think in a court of public, it was a good time for me to say my piece. And through the years, it wasn't something that I would harp on. I mean, I did interviews and stuff. People would always ask me about it. But it was something I was actually reluctant to talk about. It was a lot. Yeah. Well, it's hard for other people to relate to this idea that you want more money.

You know? You're talking about regular people. And you're saying this thing, even though it is yours. It's hard for people. Money is if you look at life, anything in life through the framework of money, you'll miss most of the picture. And, you know, in business, especially this stage in our careers, you realize through the years, people play incentives. You know what I mean? If they incentivize a certain way, that's the way they're going to behave.

So what they want is never really surprising. How they get there is where all the surprises are. So I feel like I can forgive somebody for playing an incentive. It's disappointing.

But what was so remarkable when I walked away from the show, right, is that it was against incentive. So people couldn't understand it at the time. It was so much money. How could you do that and blah, blah, blah. But you know, if I had taken that money and finished the show, I would have got the money but i might never have been the same i think it was one of the most gangster moves in the history of

entertainment but it made you a legend and the fact that you you then started doing shows like i heard like dave's doing a show in the park in seattle he's got like a box he pulls out a speaker just starts doing stand-up that was in portland yeah i i because but because in that sense it was freeing yeah something about you know i was geared a certain way growing up because i wanted to make it in show business and and and boy that shit fell all up all the way apart and as far as i knew my career was over so where do you go from there yeah but your career wasn't over you just decided and we're gonna just sort of lay back for a while in hindsight yeah but when it was happening you really felt like it was over I never seen these things before I didn't see anyone else do this

and get back up I didn't see you know and the drumbeat is he's crazy smokes crackers this is that yeah it was a while it was a wild. The way people close to you react to it. Like I had failed or I had ruined my life. And then when you're cold, that phone don't ring that often. And then I had over a decade of sitting in that choice. But I didn't languish in just that experience. I started doing standup for much better reasons than making it.

I still enjoyed it. I started seeing the places where I was performing. Normally when you're successful in comedy, you know, you get off the plane or the bus, you do the hit, you go back to the hotel, you get back on the bus, you don't really see anything. You don't really yeah like even now like this this last run we did here in austin and we was here for weeks and then i got to see austin i got to find restaurants i like i met people that i probably called because i'm in town stuff like that and it was like that all over the

world not just the country i started going around just seeing the world i got overwhelmed with this idea that none of my information was first hand i just read it in books i heard it from friends and i was eager to just just see something for myself and and i kind of entrenched this philosophy that my memories are are some of the most valuable things that i have these first-hand experiences yeah can't take that away from if i if i reminisce on a nice day then are some of the most valuable things that I have. These firsthand experiences. Can't take that away from if I reminisce on a nice day, then, you know, it feeds you. Remembering something is neurologically almost identical, I've read, to experiencing it.

Yeah, I think that there's a real value in having experiences where you do it on purpose. Like you go someplace to have experiences and and think about having those experiences because most of the time you know like when we like you were saying if we do shows you just kind of show up you do the show and then you go home but if you like set aside some days to do things like that's very valuable for your perspective which is ultimately valuable for your act it's valuable for everything because you're you're choosing to take in more information and data specifically to enhance your perspective on life right you learn things yeah you you gain perspective which is very valuable for a comedian yeah and a person and uh it's humbling and it's

empowering at the same time yeah because, because we know comics, like, that was a big theme during, like, the 90s, right, where comics would all tell the same stories about being on the road. All the jokes were about airplane travel. Airline jokes. Hotel food and that kind of shit, and the maid, do not disturb, knock on your door, because that's what they related to, right?

Right, the road warriors. Yeah, that was their life's perspective, and it kind of shows that experiences interesting experiences are very valuable but you don't think of them as valuable you think of them as recreational but they really are valuable right and i call you know any any information is valuable i call it the expensive knowledge right it's like your buddy that's a war veteran or something. You don't want to know the shit he knows if you knew what he had to do to know these things.

That's what they call expensive knowledge. I would not recommend quitting your show the way I did if you can avoid it. Yeah. But the way you did it was so cool because, you know, you kind of drifted off. I promise I wasn't trying to be cool. It was a series of troubleshooting. It was like, fuck it, man. What are you going to do?

Whatever you go through, you got to live. You got to make a way and find your happiness. And, you know, I'm lucky. I'm in show business, which is a pretty, it's a multidimensional career path. This thing could go a lot of ways. Yeah. Especially today. Oh, my God. It's so strange.

Yeah, and another time would I have ever gotten that money? I don't think so. No, because there would have been no social media, no pressure. Right, no dropping specials on the gram no you know no comment section no move on.org no and if you had gone to say like uh the tonight show and made a pitch like that they probably wouldn't even aired it no of course not i had a gripe with someone that owned the six of the media yeah what am i gonna do tell the media on them? It's never going to work.

Right. They would definitely edit that part out. Be like, why is Dave's section only four minutes long? Yeah, edit it, spin it, whatever it is they do. But again, all parties involved, I thought, in repairing that situation, and I don't want to go all into what those conversations were like other than to say, and this is not like I'm just happy because they paid me. It was class act. It was like. That's beautiful.

It really was. It was very encouraging. That is very encouraging. I think that coming up behind us, these kids are going to be playing in a whole new ball game than we did. I hope so. I think there's more accountability now because of the internet, because of people's ability to express themselves is so much different than it used to be. So you can't just be some ruthless, evil executive who's fucking over the artists like they did in the music business.

I mean, it's legendary. The music business is legendary for doing that. Man, look. First of all, we got to get into this music business thing in a second, but I was looking on the internet. It was a bunch of waitresses talking about what celebrities did or didn't tip them. Nobody can fuck up anymore. It's true, yeah.

Yeah, they got a whole website dedicated to bad tippers. Yeah. All of a sudden, breaking news, Ellen DeGeneres is a bitch. What? What? Who knows? By the way, I like going to the line. I'm just saying, this is what we're faced with.

Yeah. I don't know. Our personalities get yelped. Yeah. The thing is, if you talk to enough people you're gonna have disagreements with people and if someone cumulates if they curate only those disagreements and only take it from the perspective of those people that you had problems with they could paint you out to be a piece of shit even if you're a really nice person who just doesn't take any nonsense from people if you talk to

enough nonsense people you're gonna have enough conflicts if they only curate those conflicts and make like a compilation, like Dave talked to this guy and told him to eat shit. Well, that's why I usually don't do interviews because I feel like this is about fame in general. And I see you go through similar shit. It's like they blow you up like a balloon and twisting all these wild shapes like a balloon animal.

Yeah. Once you're in that thing, they can control the perception of you. So why fuck with it? Gaslighting. Yeah. They gaslight people. And, you know, again, people play incentives. I'll give you an example.

You know, I'm not. Years ago, not that long ago, you remember when all those writings of Gandhi came out? They're like, well, all this really racist shit. Have you ever read this? I did. Yeah. And you know the context of that. At the time

he wrote those things, he was an attorney in South Africa. And South Africa had a racist legal system. And in order to be successful, you had to be a good racist. And he was just succeeding. I'm sure he wasn't writing all this nigga shit in India.

I shouldn't have said that, but, you know. I forgot I was on there. We're on the internet. That's fun. Didn't Gandhi, there's people that were upset at him because he slept with a bunch of girls too, right? Didn't like tempt himself? They Me Too'd Gandhi? Yeah.

I think he tempted himself by sleeping. I think that was the way he described it. Like he would sleep with young girls. To tempt himself. Yeah. I think that was the- The evil Knievel of pussy. And now I will tempt myself.

What the fuck is this? I think I'm remembering that correct. That's what I tell my wife. I'm going to the titty bar to tempt myself. Yeah. fuck is this? I think I'm remembering that correct. That's what I tell my wife. I'm going to the titty bar to tempt myself. He tortured himself. Tortured himself. Is that what he said? He called it torture.

Yeah, let's get this right because I actually revere Gandhi. Fucking ad bloggers. Sexual torment of a saint. A new book reveals Gandhi tortured himself with the young women who worshipped him and often shared his bed. Yeah. Daily mail, so this has got to be true. He was killed by an assassin in

1946, huh? Wow. Well, that part was in the movie. I don't know about all this torturing himself. I didn't know it was that. I thought it was later. And then they just show a picture of him walking with some, you know, we don't know. I don't know. But go back to what it was later. And then they just show a picture of him walking with some, you know, we don't know. I don't know. But go back to what it said there. Gandhi, a London-trained lawyer-turned-guru, was a ruthless cult leader who enslaved his followers

with such bizarre sexual demands that it became difficult for many people to take him seriously, even during his own lifetime. What? That crazy book. Oh, it claims. Gandhi Naked Ambition claims that Gandhi. seriously even during his own lifetime what a crazy book oh it claims gandhi naked ambition claims that gandhi wrote a book called gandhi naked ambition yeah uh goes so far as to suggest that the draconian practice is instituted by this iconic figure in the ashrams he founded

prompted the perverted 20th century cults of jim jones and jonestown guy okay okay all right someone wrote this book i look at gand at Gandhi as the person that fought against white supremacy in his homeland. So there you go. Yeah. So he liked to torture himself a little bit. I'm sorry. He liked to lay down and get hard on. That's the big deal.

I'm sorry I brought that up. I didn't know naked ambition just hit the stands. What was it, Gandhi? What's it called? Yeah. But how would anyone know whether or not he tortured himself? Does his writing say that? Did he talk about it called? You got it. Yeah, but how would anyone know whether or not he tortured himself? Does his writing say that? Did he talk about it openly?

Did he like to just get blue-balled and lay there? Yeah, see, it's that, though, man. It's all this, like, you know, I hate the debunking of great legacies. Right, right, right, right. You know what I mean? Imagine how the whites might feel if they tear down a Civil War statue. This kind of thing to me is that. My equivalent of that.

Now we're debunking Gandhi. You know, it was really funny when they started tearing down statues. Trump was like, what are they going to do next? They're going to tear down George Washington? And everybody's like, well, that's ridiculous. They're not going to do that. And then they started tearing down George Washington statues. They'd tear down all the statues i mean i mean i mean george washington did own

slaves he did yeah yeah so did thomas jefferson yeah yeah yeah many of the framers yeah it's but it's one of those things where it's you shouldn't revere what they did but what a statue is supposed to represent is here's an image of some person who's six store historically significant and established in the country doesn't mean right that's the analogy yeah to me Gandhi fought against white supremacy and and was very successful and then they decades later start tearing the statue yeah all the worst thing he did was get hard-ons. Yeah, I mean.

Lay there and get tortured. Yeah, I'm not trying to put no value judgment on any of this shit. I'm just saying he did expel the British peacefully, which was unprecedented in the world. A peaceful expulsion of oppressors. Yeah. It's interesting how peaceful protest,

like peaceful protest resonates for years and years and years and when someone does something signal like remember that image I'm sure you do of that there's a video of it of a monk in Vietnam lighting himself on fire that was a race war it's on the cover of one of the rage rage against machine albums yeah crazy. Crazy. But everybody remembers that. Yeah, there was another guy who did that underneath the window of the Pentagon here in the United States during the Vietnam War.

Oh, did he? Yeah, white fella. I can't remember his name. Whew. That's a way to go. That's a crazy way to go. But Gandhi didn't call it a peaceful protest. He called it civil disobedience,

the idea being that I will not participate in my own oppression. It's a fine idea. It's a good idea. Yeah. Why would anybody concentrate on the hard-ons? Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

Gandhi got so much pussy. Let me tell you about this Gandhi you fuck with. He didn't even do anything. He just laid there. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's a weird move, though. What, to just lay there a little?

Just lay there and get hard and go like... Beat it, bitch. Go on, get some sleep. That's crazy. I think that... I don't know, man. I don't know where this culture is headed. I don't know what the fuck everybody's doing anymore.

It's COVID year. I'm a little packed away. I've been out. It's doing something to us collectively. We talked about this the last time I was here, and I told you I was going to come to the show. I wasn't bullshitting. Remember that day I said, I'll come after the inauguration yeah cuz we all

smelled that coming yeah it's a tough one it's a weird one we're being tested it's testing the foundations of our culture the foundations of our civilizations testing how well well we can be peaceful with each other and make sense and get along and how much we value getting along with each other and make sense and get along and how much we value getting along with each other and how much there's just so much divisiveness because we've never been there's never been a time in history where the whole economy and the whole society basically just got frozen for a year and stuck in some weird weird sort of side patch where we had to figure things out fresh and people lost like how many people lost their jobs how many people lost their lives how many people lost their grandparents their loved ones that's right yeah it's it was a weird fucking year and everybody's very sensitive and

everybody's quick to pull the trigger and then you got everybody who's there's so many people that have just been online all day long this whole year and that's not good for you. I still think at the core of all of this, what you call weirdness, is these profound trust issues. It's like I said on Letterman, these people that hoarded toilet paper and went and bought bullets out. None of these things are good signs. i think that something about the nature of covid punched us square in our american identity we're individualists we you know the the mask and all these things that aren't actually i don't think are actually oppressive but i can see why

americans would feel they are yeah they just don't trust the messenger anymore there's too many mixed signals it's hard in the beginning when fauci was saying you don't have the messenger anymore. There's too many mixed signals. It's hard. In the beginning when Fauci was saying you don't have to wear a mask, then eventually they were saying you got to wear one, you should wear two. That was a huge mistake. I agree. Yeah, if you give people information that may not be true, even if you have the intention of having them behave in a way that's beneficial for everybody,

there's misinformation. The way you achieve these things, the separation from ends and means can be a profound problem if you're managing something like a nation of 300 plus million people. We need to be able to trust the institution.

Now you'll hear Americans say, they should fix this, they should fix that, but in reality, the idea is we are they. nobody feels that way right now well we did before i think people had faith in the government in the sense that worst case scenario even if they're incompetent everything will stay together now you realize no no it doesn't have to stay together it can be irreversibly fucked like I think some of our cities are right now. I think there's some sections of LA,

I don't know how the fuck they're going to bounce back. You drive down the street and you see everything boarded up. You go, how does this come back? How long does it take? Does it take a year? Does it take 10 years? Like what is this? And I have no point of reference to even make an educated guess.

I've never seen any of this before. Nobody has. I'll tell you, like, okay, so my experience during COVID, I live in Ohio. I don't live in a cough's distance from anyone I don't know. You know what I mean? It's open space. So we were isolated, but it wasn't oppressive.

I could go outside, I could take a walk, I could whatever. I go to New York, I was telling you, maybe a couple weeks ago, when they opened all the comedy clubs back up, you know, just to show support for the clubs that nurtured my career early on. And it was a tough one. I'd been there before, like the Saturday Night Live week. That week was unseasonably warm.

Biden had just won that weekend, so people were celebratory. This time around, I got a sense of the emotional carnage that happened in that city. And it was significant. It was palpable. You would notice it. I did. And to hear them say it, it's like, phew, things are getting better. And I was like, better?

Because I hadn't seen New York since it was, like, incredibly healthy. You know, in a non-COVID time, I've heard a $2 trillion economy just in the five boroughs of New York. I don't know what's going on there now. Restaurants open in limited capacity. It takes courage just to go to a coffee shop or this, that, or the other.

Especially with this problem of trust being in deficit. Yeah. It's a tough one. Well, it's also a lot of people are moving out. When people are moving out, you get the sense like it's an abandoned ship, like it's a sinking ship.

And then people don't want to invest money in it. They don't know what to do. They're not sure if they should stay. They start looking at other states where things are open. Maybe we should just move. They're not sure if they should stay. They start looking at other states where things are open. Maybe we should just move.

Maybe we should forget about this business and start fresh in Florida or move to Texas or whatever. Yeah, I can't imagine New York City not coming back from this. It'll come back. It just won't come back the same. It's going to be different. It's going to take a long time. You think anything will be the same after that? It'll take a minute, bro.

It'll take a minute. It'll be a new normal, though. Well, even Austin, like, it's not the same. It's take a minute bro it'll take a minute it'll be a new normal though well even austin like it's not the same it's actually bigger it's growing this city grew i'm sure grew i'm sure a lot of people from the bay moved here for the tech job yep the weather's good yep the restrictions aren't as oppressive people are nicer too that's that's the big one for me my feelings here are different i feel uh of less anxiety here i feel like people are nicer, too. That's the big one for me. My feelings here are different. I feel less anxiety here. I feel like people are nicer. They're genuinely friendly. But do you think that people are nicer,

or do you think the circles you were rolling in in California weren't as nice? No, it's just regular people that you meet. Like, there's a guy in my neighborhood. I look forward to waving to this guy every day. He's an old dude who works on his lawn. And this motherfucker will wave at everybody who drives by. He's there digging. He sees a car.

He's like. No, that's hilarious. And every day I see that guy, I get ready. I get ready. I'm going to wave to my friend. I see him. I'm like, hey, wave to me. Make a little eye contact.

It feels good. I never got that in California. Nobody ever stopped from digging in their lawn to look up and wave at you at every car that passes by. This guy waves at every car. That's sweet's sweet how old is this guy probably 70s 80s okay older fella if it's a guy my age it'd be weird what's happening nobody want to see that shit yeah that's a little odd he's a little too friendly call the police yeah 20 year old kids doing laundry out there waving at everybody hilarious yeah no it's it's age appropriate but he's uh it's just there's friendly people out here man there's less of them

people value people when they're not a burden when you get to you know 20 million people whatever the fuck la is people uh they lose their value they become annoying there's too many of them on the highway in front of you there's too many of them on the highway in front of you. There's too many of them around you. You know? Well, let me ask you this. What is the mechanics of your day like? Is your day mechanically the same as L.A.? Minus the comedy, obviously, it's COVID.

But I would imagine you work out a few hours a day no matter where you are. You do your show a few hours a day if you're here or there. You kick it with your wife a few hours a day no matter where you are you do your show a few hours a day yeah if you're here or there you kick it with your wife a few hours a day and the kids what else what else do you do here that you don't do that it's just quieter it just feels better it feels better it feels better like i just like i like the vibe of the city better how so It's like no one's trying to be famous here.

There's a thing in Hollywood, even if you're not a person who's in show business, maybe you had an ambition and you abandoned it. Or maybe you think like now because of reality shows and because of social media, maybe you don't even have to be famous for your talent. You just have to be famous. your talent you just have to be famous like look at the kardashians and a lot of people that are famous just for being famous like there's

a weird there's a weird currency in having a lot of people know who you are there's a social status to that that exists in la that is primary it's above all it's above all all right well let me say this first of all when i remember meeting you in the 90s, this thing never really seemed to affect you. You seemed serious about comedy. I had heard whispering that you did kung fu. You know, but you weren't like a, you were social with all the comedians,

but you weren't like the hangout kind of guy. You were always off doing your own thing. And even this podcast, even though it grew to be a big thing when it started, I don't even think it started with the intention I'm going to blow this motherfucker up. You just did it. Yeah, there was never a thought of blowing it up.

It was just silly. There's a video, it was a funny video that was in the Comedy Store documentary of Tom Segura leaving my house, talking about leaving my house and talking to Red Band, saying, what is he doing? Why does he do this?

And he's like, I don't know. He just, he wants to do it all the time. He wants to do this stupid fucking podcast that no one's listening to. Yeah, it's dope. It's dope. I mean, but at that time, and even still,

the way I remember L.A., it's Winner's Circle. Yeah. And earlier in my career, like, if you're doing well in L.A., now it's fun as fuck out there. All the ropes open up and, oh, Mr. Chappelle, and they accommodate you expertly because they're so proficient with hospitality. Yeah. But if you're not doing good, they'll remind you just as quick. Yeah, it makes you feel bad.

It makes you feel bad. I've seen people, the look on their face when you pass through the line and the security guard goes oh come on come on up here and the other people that are waiting they watch you walk through they feel terrible oh god i hope not because i do it all the time i'm a rope crossing motherfucker no more waiting for me but you know what i'm saying like for those people that are in that line to be that person that gets called to the front of the line and the doors just open. They grab that velvet rope. Oh, Mr. Chappelle. Right.

Flagrant elitism. Yeah, they love it. They love it. They wish it was them. Yeah. And they want to be hanging with you. Maybe if I'm hanging with Dave, I'll get through that rope. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm with Dave. Oh, you're with Dave. Come on in. I told you the first time I met Denzel Washington, a guy did that to me. Yeah. I'm with Dave. Oh, you're with Dave. Come on in. I told you the first time I met Denzel Washington, a guy did that to me. Came over to my table like,

you know, Dave, I hate to bother you, but Denzel Washington is here. Would you like to meet him? I'm like, oh my God, yeah. And he brings me over to the table. Wow. Denzel Washington, this is Dave Chappelle. I'm like, oh my God, he's Denzel, very gracious.

And then the guy goes, and my name is, I'm like, oh, this motherfucker didn't know me. He used me. It is wild out there. That's hilarious. It's wild out there, man. Yeah, it is wild. There's social climbers in L.A. that it's an art form.

They're skilled. They know how to do it. I think I moved to Ohio initially to be free of these feelings you described. Yeah. This idea that, you know, I started so young that I didn't know how to untether the rest of my life from those interests. And geography was the quickest life hack. I love the way you talk about Ohio. I really do.

I've always loved it. I love the way you do a lot of things that do. I've always loved it. I love the you do a lot of things I think are awesome. Thanks, bro. It's just You've always been a kind person Despite all of your success all the accolades all the all the love that you get you've never let it Never let it turn you into someone who felt like you were better than other people Like I've seen you the way you interact with the door people at the store that to me is everything right how do you how do you

treat the door staff how do you treat the bartender are you friendly with all those folks you know and if you're not man you're kind of missing the whole point like you can make someone's day just by being cool that's what always makes me laugh about punky. Yes She was a last time I saw her she was a bar back now She's on SNL the next time I saw she was rehearsing at SNL. I made me feel real good for her She's amazing and I thought of all the comedians that might treat the bar backs like shit about you better be careful Yeah, right a security Idris Elba the famous actor used to be security guard really lines Yeah, yeah, that's my spy we from you you used to buy weed from Idris Elba? Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if I should talk about it. Yeah, you can talk about it. I did. It's legal now in New York. Yeah, yeah. You know, he had a kickboxing fight. He's a legitimate Muay Thai fighter. I heard he's nice with it.

Oh, yeah. He's good. And he fought a good guy. Like, it wasn't a bullshit fight. It was a fight. It wasn't like he went out there and just knocked this guy out with one punch. They were scrapping. Oh, yeah, it's a good fight And he trained for a long time like this pull up some video footage of Idris Elba hitting a heavy bag this I gotta see

Idris Elba's got skills he trains hard and he I think he did it for a television show So I think they documented his training and he trained for quite a long time and you know Muay Thai's That's a fucking brutal way to fight kicking legs and is that the shit they do in Thailand yeah that's the shit they do in Thailand I went to the Muay Thai fights in town look at it yeah he's he's getting after it so he would train at this like legit Muay Thai gym and you watch him I mean if I saw him about to fight in the UFC, I'd go, eh, fucking not a good move. Look at it.

He got dropped there. He's training. He's doing real. I mean, he's getting his legs kicked, the whole deal. And you could tell that this is, you know, they're not cutting any corners. He's doing the hard work the real hard work man i came across here's his fight so he had like a fucking real fight oh it's a real fight man a real muay thai fight i mean they were getting after it is it showing the fight

oh so there's a whole documentary on it if you think about most actors you know too i don't know they got this kind of grit No humility to possibly get their ass whooped. Oh, yeah, everybody. That's the thing I mean every human being you get knocked the fuck out right we saw that with Jorge Masvidal Jorge Masvidal when he got knocked out by Usman Masvidal been he had an iron chin his whole fucking career He'd only been like dropped a couple of times and he was fine every time. Dropped by big guys like Darren Till dropped him. But, I mean, he's one of the best strikers in the sport. And then when Usman flatlined him, everybody's like, oh, shit.

Everybody can get knocked out. The human brain, the human body, the way your face is constructed, it's just not designed to get punched. So look at this right here. That could have easily killed him. That would have dropped me. Yeah, a good shot. I mean,

he's got good defense though. He fought well. He did everything well. I could be any fighter alive at the press conference. But that shit, forget it. It is a real fight. They're showing in slow motion. It's hard. Fighting's hard. It's hard not to look sloppy.

It's hard to look perfect. To get to a point where you're looking like Andre Berto or Floyd Mayweather, it takes a long fucking time to develop that kind of timing and poise and movement. A lifetime. Yeah, forever. So what he did, though, is it shows character that he took that chance. That's a rare person. When my kid was young, my youngest son,

he got really into boxing. He used to take him down to Wild Card in Hollywood when we were in L.A. And he trained with Justin Juco and shit like that. Juco was a great trainer because he'd make everything fun for my son. And my son got really into it. And one day, he was young. He's like, I want to spar with somebody. So they put him in the ring with this like his

top amateur contender little guy but you know he was nice with it and and my son and his little child talk was like i'm gonna this guy up i know you're not they got in there and you know he did all right but the gym got real amped And I remember one of the fighters came over to me and was like, this thing your son has, you can't train that. You're either this way or you're not. Like he liked it. This tenacity he had. So I always thought about that.

You can't train that. You're either this way or you're not. Well, some people, they can get better at it. You can get better at tenacity. You can get better at mental strength. It's not totally innate. Like, some people are just born with it, though. Some people are ferocious from the jump.

Where did you fall in that spectrum? I don't remember, because it took, it was so long ago. But I always had, I always had unusual power, because I have a weird frame, a very large hands for my body and have wide shoulders and I can generate a lot of force. And so the problem with that is I would load up and it took me a long time. You mean load up. I would try to knock people out all the time. That was all. Like this is most Taekwondo tournaments. Like a lot of, they get, most of the fights are won by points. They're won by decision. I won most of my fights by knockout.

A lot of them by knockout. I mean, maybe not most of them, but I was always trying to knock someone unconscious. What does it feel like to knock somebody? Is it satisfying? Does it scare you at all? It's, uh, it's shocking and it doesn't feel good it never feels like like great i would pretend it felt great i'd be like yeah but meanwhile i was like what the fuck right part of me would be like what the fuck it's it's always felt weird there was one time that i never recovered from when i was 19 years old i fought

in anaheim california flew out here to fight in the Nationals. Won my first fight. Then I won my second fight. I was fighting this kid. And I was there with just me and my friend Jungsik. He was coaching me. He was cornering me. And this guy, they had their whole team with them.

And there's all these people in the stands that were, I remember saying, come on, Johnny, get him, Johnny, get him, Johnny. And I knew this dude was just a little slow. And he was doing some things, and I was seeing some openings. And I hit him harder than I've ever hit anybody in my life. I hit him with a wheel kick, which is I hit him so hard I was limping for a couple days afterwards because my heel hurt from hitting his head. And I flatlined him. He face planted.

He started snoring. and he never got up they carried him off in a stretcher he's unconscious for half an hour and they eventually carried him off put him in stretcher brought him to the hospital but he literally never stood up and walked around and that's scary it scared the shit out of me and then I like to do I didn't know the dude he was from Chicago I was from Boston and we just met in California. That's what's weird about boxing. Like, beating somebody up that you're not angry at.

Right. Is a wild thing to think about. It is wild. Yeah. They do it all the time. You know, a lot of MMA fighters, they're good friends up until, you know, a lot of them train together. And then they go and they fight. But I went back to my instructor, and my instructor was a hard man.

He was a Korean dude who had been taught by General Chae Young-yi, who was the original founder of Taekwondo, who used to train troops in Vietnam. I mean, this guy was hard. And when I went back and told Mr. Kim, I said, you know, we were talking about the tournament. He goes, I heard you had a really good knockout. And I said, you know, we were talking about the tournament He goes I heard you had a really good knockout and I said it was very scary. I go Maybe nervous I go because he never got up. I mean, I thought he was dead and he goes Sometimes they die. Wow, and then he walked away

Wow, and then I was like, oh shit. They is me. Yeah, how old were you then 19? And that was the decline of my taekwondo career from that moment on And then I was like, oh shit, they is me. How old were you then? 19. Jeez. And that was the decline of my taekwondo career from that moment on. My fighting career, I fought for a couple more years, but I lost a lot of my enthusiasm with that one fight. Did the fighting and the standup overlap? They overlapped for three kickboxing fights. I had three kickboxing fights while I was doing comedy and i wasn't i wasn't committing

100 to either one of them i was i was half in with both and then i realized i couldn't do it anymore and i actually got told by a dude who was an open mic or he actually like said something that was so true i couldn't even argue with him he goes yeah he goes you started out pretty funny he goes but he got he lost steam somewhere along the line and i remember looking at him going he's right wait wait wait in what context did he say this talking about comedy like who's getting good who's getting bad we were all like a year in you know we're all struggling and uh we were sitting around talking about oh this guy's really funny and that guy's really he's like yeah he started out pretty good but seemed like you lost steam really he wasn't even being mean to me.

He was just being honest. What was he seeing? I just wasn't as into it because I was still fighting. I was still doing both things. And I was still teaching. I was still teaching at Boston University. I taught a course. So you started stand-up in Boston.

Yeah. That's a weird circuit. It was a good circuit. It's a great circuit. It was a good circuit. It's a great circuit. It was a weird, it's an anomaly. It's a good, it was a good place because it was, they have no tolerance for bullshit. Like, there's no dilly-dallying up there. They want punchlines, set up punchlines, set up punchlines, bang, bang, bang.

They want entertainment. That Don Gavin shit. Don't be late. Yeah, yeah. Don Gavin, Lenny Clark, Steve Sweeney. Yeah, yeah. Don Gavin, Lenny Clark, Steve Sweeney. Yeah, man. I remember when I was a kid, I used to catch a train up to Boston and work out with these cats.

Yeah. And it was the first circuit I'd ever seen guys making like six figures and never leaving their city. It trapped them. They would go to bars and shit, and you'd think they played for the Celtics or something, like the town, embrace the local comedians. they were stars oh yeah in boston oh yeah like not like nothing else there's no other comparison to any other city that's like that what's the guy you should drink all the time teddy bergeron oh yeah you remember him oh yeah when he was in it he was a beast teddy bergeron

had one tonight show set that was so fucking brilliant. It was so brilliant. And then apparently he got fucked up on pills and booze and they made him stick around. But he came back and he was so fucked up on drugs that it tanked his career. So he had this one set that was magic. And you watch that set, you're like, my God, that guy might be the best comic alive. He was so smooth. I remember opening for him. He was so smooth. He was comic alive. He was so smooth. I remember opening for him. He was so smooth.

He was so good. He was so good. He was such a smart guy, too, such a good writer. But, you know, success and the demons, I mean, that's why one of the things that's very impressive to me about people like you that manage the success and it doesn't change your personality. and it doesn't change your personality. Whatever anxiety comes out of all the pressure and all the people paying attention to what you're doing, you roll. You roll with it and you handle it.

But some people don't. That scrutiny, being the object of attention, is crippling for some people. I think early in my career, I didn't know how to handle that. You know what I mean? I was a kid. I was immature. It was a weird thing.

But you still handled it well. Even though you didn't know how to handle it, you figured it out. Like, you did it. It was a struggle, but you never became an asshole. No, no. You never fell apart. I think life is too just humiliating of a practice. You know what I mean? No matter how you feel about yourself about yourself you give me more take that first shit of the day you're a person yeah yeah oh yeah fingers is

like growth no it is true it's true it's true yeah i mean the more things that i do that are humiliating or humbling humbling is probably better word more things i do that are humbling the better it is for me well the thing i like about your comedy origin story like i was fighting i was teaching he said and i was doing stand-up i didn't commit to all of them but now that sounds like the recipe for everything you do well the things i do now they enhance the other things it's like if i'm doing a podcast i think it enhances my stand-up because it enhances my perspective the more people i can talk to the more ideas i can take in more conversations i can have with people i get a better understanding of people like i'm building a mountain out of layers of paint like every day i'm getting a little bit more understanding of people a little bit more

understanding of myself you got a broad base man like you know i see you talking to people like malcolm gladwell i read his books i didn't it would intimidate me to just chop it up with him he's a good dude he's easy to talk to he seems like he seems like a good that i don't know him at all but but he's a brilliant dude you are a brilliant dude but it's just weird it's weird that i know you you know i mean it's just it's just so strange like we were like i think back when we're all so young nobody knew if we're gonna make it not make it this that or the other. And what our careers evolved into. And I use the word evolved very specifically in your case because none of it was obvious. No.

The MMA thing, it's not obvious. This podcast is not obvious. And these things were what made you, you know, a multimillion-dollar player. I mean, sitcoms, that's like the obvious shit. We all did that shit. Yeah. But you found your lane, and it's a really hard thing to do. I've just been lucky that I've always listened

to my own instincts in terms of, like, what do I enjoy doing? Whether or not it's a good career move or not, I enjoy doing it. Like, the early days, MMA wasn't a good career move at all. The people that I was working with on news radio, they would talk to me about it like I was doing porn. They were like, why are you doing this?

You're going to Alabama to do some cage fighting commentary? Like, what the fuck are you doing? Back then, I wasn't even doing commentary. I was interviewing fighters. I was just interviewing them. I was the guy who would interview the fighters after the fight was over. Would you call fights? No, I didn't call fights until 2001.

Oh, wow. That was the first time I called a fight. 1997, I was just the interviewer. I did it for a couple years, and I enjoyed it, but it was just fun to be there. It was cool. I would just fly into these weird places like you know right with dothan alabama you know like weird little spots you would obviously never go to otherwise and that mma that mma thing was just kind of starting out i remember i didn't see you know i started seeing like the

horse gracie fights and shit like that in the maybe the early 90s yeah they started doing the shamrock was another yeah 93 is when it started. Yeah. Yeah, I came around in 97. So I did it in 97 and 98. And then I couldn't do it anymore. It was costing me money. I could make more money doing a club for a weekend, a comedy club, than I could doing these gigs. And then, you know, I just decided I was just going to stay a fan, just watch it from afar. I did it.

I did the little interview thing. It was fun. I was just going to stay a fan, just watch it from afar. I did it. I did the little interview thing. It was fun. And then the UFC was purchased by the Fertittas, and Dana White and I became friends because I was on Fear Factor, and he gave me free tickets to come to the fights.

That's when no celebrities really knew what it was, and so if you could get a celebrity to sit up in the front row, and then they would interview me, and I knew so much about fighting. I started asking them questions about guys that are fighting in Japan. And then Dana and I went out to dinner, and he was like, why don't you do commentary? And I said, man, I don't want to do commentary. I want to get drunk and watch fights. Like, come on, man.

Damn, props to Dana White, though. That's a good move. Yeah. He saw me on the Keenan Ivory Wayans show, too, making fun of Steven Seagal. We were talking about martial arts and Dana thought it was hilarious and then we started talking about commentary and then he talked me into doing one.

I did like the first 15 of them I did for free. I did it for a while, like more than a year, like maybe two years I did it for no money. I just got free tickets. He just flew me out. It's that, bro. You know, these paths in life they reveal themselves and this goes back to what we were saying earlier if you look at things through

the lens of money or monetary gain you'll miss so much you miss so much this thing about just following a passion having a good dinner with somebody yeah i'll do it yeah that's usually how the greatest things happen when i did stars point i don't do movies i'm so glad i did it and it was just because i liked bradley coop i kept meeting him at parties that's awesome and it's like i just like the guy no yeah that's being able to just do what you enjoy doing that's the real success of life because if you're making a lot of money but you hate what you're doing like when i was doing fear factor i didn't enjoy the job i enjoyed the people I was working with. It was fun.

They were a good group of people. We had a lot of fun. We had a lot of laughs. But it wasn't what I wanted to do. I was doing it for money. Right. But it gave me, the good thing was it gave me fuck you money.

So it gave me money where I had money squirreled away. I was like, ooh, I can relax now. Now I just do what I want to do. And what I wanted to do was do this stupid podcast. And then do these MMA shows, go and do commentary. And I did all that shit, again, it was all just because I enjoyed it. And then that became my life.

My life became only things I enjoy. So now, whether it's podcast, or whether it's standup, or whether it's commentary, it's just I enjoy it. I look forward to it. I had a year like that, right, maybe the year before I did Chappelle's show. It was just like I was saving up to take a chance. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So when it came time to do Chappelle's show, the money was terrible, but I'd saved up. I could take the shot. Yeah. I could come off the road and take a real shot. And it made all the difference in the world. Real shot. When you take a chance, it's such a weird feeling. Taking a chance, like doing something, even just moving here.

It's so exciting. So exciting when you don't know how it's going to play out. It's so nerve wracking. It gets you. You're like, fuck, is this the right move? Maybe I should just play it safe and stay where I am i mean la's got to open back up eventually no this was a great move and i can't imagine what you saved in taxes i don't know it's a lot though it's got to be 13 is what california state taxes are yeah it's crazy i'm not even good at math and i know that's

13 it's gonna get worse too man it's going to get worse, too, man. It's going to get worse. What? Because they're jacking the taxes up. They're trying. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're jacking them up in New York. You know what? Yeah, they're fine.

Listen, if I felt like it fixed things, I would be happy. It's that. You know, I was with Jon Stewart. We were in Copenhagen. And, you know know socialized country and John Stewart said to me something he said do you know the difference between a taxpayer here and a taxpayer in America

he said these people think they get something for their money but I think socialism or something like that only works in homogenized countries like everyone in China is Chinese a lot of white people in Copenhagen. I think

in America it's the them or the they of it all that fucks us up. It's also small populations. It's like one of the things I was saying about Austin. One of the ways Austin works is there's only a million people in the city. And then there's another million on the outskirts.

That's not a lot of people. It's one of the reasons why it works it's like people are valuable they're not a problem even when you're in traffic it's like five minutes like oh my god so much traffic took you extra five minutes right it's nothing not no not coming from la nothing is traffic after la maybe atlanta yeah atlanta's rough chicago's rough i remember doing uh doing radio in chicago was doing the schomburg improv and you do radio in the city and then you got to go back out to schomburg you're like holy shit this is far there's so much traffic there's so many people big cities that's the that's the the rub on big cities is that people they don't value each other as much when you're in a place like like Copenhagen or any of these, whether it's Denmark, these places are not that big.

They're big enough, but they're not that big. The United States is so big. It's so big. It's so big and it's so different. There's so much going on. So many cities. Everywhere is different. So many climates. 350 whatever the fuck it is million people yeah but if you see an american when you're outside of america you know they one of us a lot of times yeah a lot of times

the lines are getting blurry now though how do you mean you might think someone's american you talk to him like hello mate oh look at you motherfucker with your backwards baseball hat on that is true yeah i play overseas a lot now and you know i used to do it when i was a kid it was more challenging this internet makes all the crowds kind of the same yeah they know every reference yeah and american culture is still a marquee culture like you know they know so much about our political lives they know so much about our cultural lives so much more than we would know about them yeah going over there yeah for sure and on stage like i was doing a show in tokyo i'd never worked in tokyo before what was that like if i took a picture from the

stage and asked you where i was you'd think i was playing san francisco really it was interesting yeah some of the people who came didn't even speak english they just wanted to see the spectacle of oh wow because they had heard of me oh wow that must be wild it's netflix man like look you get out in that world joe you're you're famous everywhere you've never been to these places but but when you get there, they're going to know you. Or there's a thing that happened to me years ago in London where I was in a restaurant and I was kind of waiting for the table and when the lady, she asked my name. She said, what's your name? I go, David. She goes, well, is David on the list?

What's your last name? I go, Chappelle. And she looks up and I look around and everyone's kind of looking. I could tell they had heard of me, but they didn't know that that was me. Oh, right, right, right. It was's kind of looking. I could tell they had heard of me, but they didn't know that that was me. Oh, right, right, right. It was that kind of thing. Yeah. This was after I quit the show,

but not long after, like, 05, 06. What did you do for those 10 years? A lot of shit. I learned a lot. I mean, but it was a humble existence. You know, I had had young children and I was raising my kids. I was living a humble existence. You know, I had had young children, and I was raising my kids. I was living a suburban life.

And then every once in a while, I get this feeling like I'm the funniest guy. I got to get out there. And I would, like, fly to Denver, do a week in Denver or something. And that's when you would read I was doing, like, these six-hour shows. I performed like I was desperate for it. I loved it. Yeah. doing like these six-hour shows.

I performed like I was desperate for it. I loved it. Yeah. And at one point, I had done one of these big comedy tours that Live Nation put together, that oddball tour. And I did all right. I mean, I had a good run.

I wiped out in Hartford, and that was all over the internet. That was the first time that thing had happened to me. But for the most part, the tour went good, but it was a tough tour for me because it was a long show I had to close it you know my chops weren't as tight as they normally were but I wouldn't I didn't suck by any means but you know could have been bumbling it was humbling but it made me want to go back

and and the shows were like every shows like 20,000 seats. They were like all these. What year was this around? Shit. I can't remember. Obama's president, maybe. I don't know, 8, 9, 10. But you were famous for just showing up places. You would just fly in.

That's the one. That's when I started. In the summer, I started riding motorcycles, which is, like, very uncharacteristically. But I loved it. And I rode. I said, I'm going to ride my bike across country. And I did. I cheated.

I had a tour bus with me. It was a trailer, so if it rained or something, or if I just wanted to bail, I could. But I rode across country. And I'd never seen America like that. And we talk about how big it is and expansive. And, man, I saw all the little pockets. On a bike bike you know

you really yeah feel the environment you see things um and i would i'd stop and play one of my favorite birthdays was here in austin i i was i'd never been to austin really and i pulled up on sixth street i've been to austin but i've never seen austin pulled up on sixth street it was my birthday i was riding with the guys like what do you want to do for your birthday? And, you know, at that time, I wasn't drinking or smoking or anything. I said, I want to do stand-up. And I found a bar.

It was right around closing. And I saw the DJ packing up, and I said, can I use your microphone? And he recognized me. So he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I went up there, and I just started talking shit. And, you know, but it was just like, like you know teasing the bar staff as they're cleaning up talking to patrons and you know get it home fast buddy and all that shit right

and people laugh and they can't it was like doing they should do street comedy in New York it kind of remind me that like building a crowd and it's the wild people stopped and listen out now I'm not a tech savvy dude Twitter it come out and I guess people had started tweeting like yeah it's just crazy they should pose this in here ran man might took like a hour that place was packed and I must have stayed on stage three or four hours Wow and you know they closed the door they locked the door cuz it was after hours and I was in there killing it Wow

best birthday ever had. One of the best birthdays I ever had. Sometime around when I turned 40, I just decided that I'm going to have fun. You know, like right now, this is a weird thing to talk about, but after DMX passed and Black Rob, now far more often people from my peer group pass away.

And it just makes me feel like, it's not a midlife crisis. It's almost the opposite of that. It's like, look, I know I don't get to stay here forever. My time is limited and precious, and I don't take any of these things for granted. I don't take this money for granted, this platform. And I'm not talking about the fame platform. I'm talking about comedy, this genre. This genre has been so good for me, my social life,

the people that I've met, the friendships that I've had, some that I've lost along the way, these memories we make. As the years go on, I'm like, what a special, special way to live your life yeah I see the world like so when we did those dates we were we in Seattle and yeah and Utah was it Salt Lake yeah yeah and one of those nights there was a massacre in Dayton it's not far from where I live.

You know, people where I live hang out in Dayton. Was that the night we were there? We were together when that happened. That same night, the guy that owned one of those comedy clubs in New York was murdered, too. It was like a really dark night. And I found all this out right before I was going on. You didn't know. You were already on stage as this news unfolded.

I'm sure you got an earful when you got off yeah but i was like you know during the run we would go places and i'd see flags at half staff and i'm like oh shit that's for like my city it really hit home and the the best part of that experience was being with comedians. If anything bad ever happens, comedians are who you want to be with. You know, 9-11, I was in a room full of comedians because I had to, you know, I was staying on West Broadway and Canal Street, which is not far from the Trade Center, but Canal Street, I'm on the north side of the street.

From the south down, the city was evacuated, so I got to stay in my hotel. But during the day, we didn't know that. I had a new baby, and I ended up going to a comedian's house. They lived in Greenwich Village. A bunch of comedians were there. As bad as that day was, that was the room to be in. It's something that these guys and girls have always inspired courage in me

and levity in me. Something, there's some subtext of comedy that everything's gonna be okay. I spent the day with Joey Diaz and Ralphie May. Oh, wow. 9-11?

Yeah. Who else would you have rather been with? When you think back of the tragedy, I bet you can think of four or five things you laughed at that day. Not about the tragedy, but we just laughed. We were high as fuck and we were just freaking not about the tragedy with them we just laugh we were high as

fuck and we were just freaking out about the fact there's no planes like look at this guy there's no planes yeah it's that comedians yeah you know it's funny that this genre is under attack because because to me this is the everything's gonna okay genre. It's under attack because people have this ability to complain about things now, and then people pile on. It's a new thing, and they realize it's very useful. It's a good weapon, and if you choose targets, you can take targets out. You can go after them. And so it becomes a hobby.

It becomes a hobby like if you see a window and you've got a rock, you feel like throwing that rock. And so a lot of times these targets aren't justified, but you can find a justification. You could say, oh, they put these words together in this order. And if you look at it in quotes written down on paper, you go, oh, well, this is ableist or this is this or this is that. This is something we can attack. Let's attack. This is transphobic. This is homophobic.

Attack. Attack. And it becomes, it's a recreation. It's recreational outrage. It is exactly. You know, the last time I came on your show when Donnell was here, and I fucked up, I looked at the comments section. I'll never do that shit again.

I'll never do that shit again. First comment is somebody said, Dave looks like he stinks. Word. Word. Word. What did I do to you, bud? When RZA was on with Don L, that was the first thing I said to Don L after the show. I go, hey, man, that was fun. Don't read the comments.

Don't read the comments. And Don L just dove right into that comments. And he was on a deep spiral of mental illness for several days. Yeah, he said, man, I kept saying i interrupt son yeah yeah i heard all about it we was on tour after that he was he was he's traumatized he got shook i told him stay out of there don't read that shit you're the same person you don't want to be affected by those people no you don't no because they just want to bring you down to their level they're miserable whoever wrote that wrote that comment that said, Dave looks like he stinks, is probably going to watch this and be like, nailed it.

So congratulations, motherfucker. And I can't wait to read your comment about me commenting on your comment. You're in the big time, bitch. Your mother stinks. Comment on that, too. It's a weird thing, comments. Comments are a weird thing. I mean, yeah, it is.

But like you say, and here's the rub, you can just not read them. Yeah. Or you can just not click on that special that's going to hurt your feelings. At a certain point, you got to look at this shit like food. What are you eating? What are you putting in your mind? That's what I keep saying about me when people get outraged about my podcast. I'm like, well, you don't have to listen to it like why are you let you listen into it looking for things that are pissing you off like what are you doing yeah it's like

listening to someone's ass when they take it shouldn't be like ew you farted what the fuck are you doing in here anyway it's for all these people well people are looking to get mad there's plenty there's plenty of things to be authentically mad about. Yes. But those are confusing and frustrating. And it takes time, patience, research. Yeah. There's a lot going on with those.

Why do that? Yeah. Why do all that? Yeah. I don't know, man. It's just a, I'm optimistic about the future, but I think because I've never seen these things before, I can't quite call where it's going. It's a challenging time, but human beings have always done better than the previous generation.

Every single generation, if you follow like Steven Pinker's work, from the beginning of time, from recorded history to now, it's the safest time to be alive ever. And it's a very clear trend. We struggle. We have conflict. there's ups and downs there's mistakes and there's good decisions but ultimately things become safer they become better we we accept each other more i mean think about like when i was a kid gay marriage was impossible like no one you couldn't get married if you're gay right whenever they would propose it people would freak out now It's nationwide

It's like things change even though there's more violence now than ever I mean there's not more violence now than ever before you see it you see violence now more than you ever have before because of Social media you could pull up Instagram videos or car accidents and gun fights and crazy shit But the reality is there's less violence than ever before. There's less murder than ever before. It's a slow trend. And Pinker gets criticized for this because people don't want to hear that because they go, but what about all the injustice?

What about all the murders? What about all the crime? There is all that shit. There is rape. All that stuff is real. But it's way less than ever before in history. And I think as time moves on, it'll get even better. There'll be hiccups.

There'll be ups and downs. But it's not less because people are sick of that behavior. It's not like these things happen less often because people had to do things to make these things happen less often. It didn't organically just be like, and that's enough murder for us. We had to do some shit.

People had to do some shit. Right. We had to, you know, gay marriage, people had to be made aware of how people are struggling. One of the great things of that movement

was when everyone started coming out to clowns and everyone realized, oh, like five of my best friends are gay and were embarrassed when we were saying this that and the other right and he realized he liked this person more than you like whatever prejudice you're carrying around these types of these types of actions are what change information information information information yeah and as more information gets out about what's avoidable and unavoidable and and the more we get to understand each other, the more we realize we have way more in common than we don't.

Right. You know, as time goes on, I think we're going to get better. I think our culture, our civilization will be improved upon. Like what we have now, we have now is a very unique struggle that's never existed before because it's a combination struggle, right? It's a virus, a disease, it's fear, it's anxiety, and then economic depression all thrown in together. And it scares the fuck out of people because they're powerless because all of a sudden the government comes along and says you can't work or your business is not essential. Imagine being told you don't have an essential business. I was.

Comedians are, yeah, in a way. We're not essential. Fortunately, podcasts were, for whatever weird reason, an essential business. So were liquor stores, which is kind of crazy. Well, because your podcast was like a beacon of some semblance of normalcy. It didn't look so, like, Joe, yeah, you look good,

and the world's going on. You know, but there's also something illusory about it. Yeah. Because if they see us on yachts popping bottles while they're going through this thing, they're going to feel like, well, is something wrong with me? Yeah. There's a lot of tone-deaf folks out there that didn't get that. They're out there taking that photo in front of a private jet with a Gucci bag, smiling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, hey, this is not the time for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, hey, this is not the time for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. This is not the time for flossing. No. But for some people, that's like a part of their image,

a part of what they do. Yeah, many people. Yeah. I think in their understanding that that's almost definitively what celebrity is. Yeah. It's like how am I going to be successful without doing it? And they sell something different than, say, you or I might be trying to sell. Right, right, right.

You're not selling that if you're a comic. You got to be careful. Nah, I'm trying to think. Is there a comic that flosses? Kevin Hart flosses a little bit. Never bothered me, though. No, he's a happy, well first of all who the fuck works harder than that guy? Nobody.

Nobody. Not me. Fuck that. Fuck that. He makes me feel lazy. He's always like co-producing some project and animating some movie and doing a voice over of this and starring in that and then doing a theater tour and then

he's got Jumanji 5 coming out. You know, he's always got something happening. And he's relentlessly kind. And everyone that works with him looks elated and happy. He's not a tyrant. He's like hanging out with a self-help book or some shit. He just makes you feel good. He's a powerful, powerful guy.

Impossible not to like him. Yeah. Yeah, he's a powerful, powerful guy. Hard, impossible not to like him. Yeah. And in fact, in my mind, he's a great case scenario that a good person can do well in life. Because there are some cynics that believe that they can't. I don't know about any crime behind that fortune.

He's just a good dude. No, he's just a good dude. You can be a good person to make it. a good dude no it's just a good dude you you can be a good person to make it it's just the problem is like making it is usually connected to ambition which is usually connected to aggression it's usually connected to you know someone who's like really fiercely trying to succeed and a lot of that is usually in a lot of people's eyes that's's at any cost. You know, ruthlessly trying to get through the maze of show business of life to succeed. And some people, back to incentives, adopt this ruthlessness thinking, well, that's how things get done.

Yeah, yeah. If I can't do this, then I'll never make it. And that's a myth. Sylvester Stallone had a great quote on the actor's studio. He was talking about Rocky being a metaphor for acting and saying that some of the best actors he knew were so sensitive that they couldn't survive the environment. So some of the greatest talent that he witnessed,

the masses will never see because they couldn't navigate the rocks as far as commerce is concerned. And that was his fight, so to speak. Yeah. I would imagine that that's, I mean, there's actors that are like real artists. When they're putting together a role, whether it's Denzel Washington or Daniel Day-Lewis,

you know what I mean? There's like levels of acting, and there's a certain level where they're not like just a regular guy trying to be famous. They got some thing that they've tuned into. Right. They can become Gary Oldman. They can become a person. Man, Daniel Day-Lewis, that motherfucker, think about it.

When he's not working working he's like making shoes and shit yeah he's not he's not on what I call the hoestroll that red carpet

he ain't doing he ain't doing that shit no he's a serious actor he's a great artist and that's why he makes a premium for his work

I think he quit acting he said he retired him playing Abraham Lincoln was one of my favorite things I've ever seen someone do it's not my favorite movie he's been in but it's a movie about the passing of a bill i don't i can't think of a

more boring process than the bureaucracy of passing a bill no matter what the bill's about yeah but man something about that performance made me excited about like art itself for me it's the there will be blood yeah it's the fucking greatest movie ever there will be blood is the one that character it was so many things he was a murderer he was evil he was kind he was ambitious he was a victim of circumstance a victim of his environment and also you know kind of a tyrant yeah like I picture myself as an actor reading that script and just being like I don't get it let alone untangle an emotional life for this guy and a rationale for behaving this way yeah man this guy

nailed it yeah he nailed it but that's what people when people think of the worst aspects of ambition they think of that kind of person, that character that he portrayed. The worst aspects of it, the dehumanizing aspects of ambition. Yeah, jeez. Some dark shit. Yeah, dark shit.

I drink your milkshake. Beats a guy dead with a bowling pin, and I'm finished. Yeah. No spoiler alert, my bad, everybody. Yeah. Fucking heavy. Great, though.

Yeah. Brilliant. You know, it's kind of like one of the things I did after I left the show is I got into boxing. I don't know. I used to just go to the fights. And part of it was because that era was like Manny Pacquiao was fighting and Mayweather was fighting and Marquez was fighting. All these guys were great fighters. And I got this notion that any time I can be a witness to greatness,

I should see it. Yes. And it's like the fast food of greatness. Floyd fight, you know that's going to be good. A Pacquiao fight, you know what I'm saying? I was there when he got knocked out, like these moments. Oh, you were there when Marquez knocked him out? Boy, was I.

With my Filipino mother-in-law. She sang the national anthem and everything. I was like when he got knocked out, like these moments. Oh, you were there when Marquez knocked him out? Boy, was I. With my Filipino mother-in-law. She sang the national anthem and everything. I was like, sorry. Wow. Yeah, it was crazy, man. But, you know. That was a crazy punch. That was.

Now, who do you have on Saturday? Canelo and Billy Ray Saunders? Yeah. Billy Ray Saunders is a problem. That guy got good feet. He can move. He can move. But there's no one in the business harder to hit than Canelo right now.

He learned something from Floyd Mayweather. Man, that was like a Harvard ass whooping Floyd gave him. And it wasn't even like a, it was a clinic, bro. Trouncing. Yeah, it's a trouncing. It wasn't an ass whooping, but. Floyd didn't hit hard enough to really give him a real ass whooping or really hurt him and punish him and have him in real trouble but he boxed him up

boxed him up it was like watching a Globetrotters game yeah it was that it was a he was beat handily but then if you watch Canelo like because Floyd was impossible to hit and I think Canelo was like he thought he was gonna be able to hit him and then he realized somewhere in the fight like this guy knows everything i'm going to do long before i do it like my language my the way i'm speaking in but with boxing is so slow right he's just like he's just many steps ahead but then you watch canelo now like he's slick he's so slick the danny jacobs fight's a great example of that yeah he's standing right in front of him just moving the head his head movement's phenomenal.

And that's not indicative of a classic Mexican boxer. No, they come straight at you. Yeah. Dying their shield. He's not that guy. He's so skilled. He got the rub. That's what we call it.

When a great fighter fights another great fighter, they learn something. You learn something from the higher levels. Like when you get beat by a guy, you get that rub. You see a lot of times a guy will come out of a fight with a great fight he might have lost but then the next fight you see like oh he recognizes the the higher frequencies the higher rpms of the the real true great ones i think that was a problem boxing this idea that people were addicted to undefeated fighters but there's something to be said in greatness for getting beat up sometimes. Yes. If you can come back from it with your wits intact

and learn the lessons that the ass whooping taught you, you might see something even more special from a guy that got a loss or two on his record. Yeah, but there's a fine line. There's a type of loss that you never bounce back from, like the Julio Cesar Chavez-Meldrickrick Taylor loss Meldrick Taylor lost to Chavez he got knocked out with like Richard Steele stopped the fight with like two seconds to go in the last round but Chavez was just getting to him just getting to him and Meldrick was so fast Meldrick was a part of that team

that 76 Olympic gold medalist team not 76 was it Was it 84? 84 team. Where it was like Mark Breland, Riddick Bowe. Was Riddick Bowe on that team? No, Tyrell Biggs. Mark Breland, Tyrell Biggs, Purnell Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor. There were so many great fighters, all gold medalists. And Meldrick Taylor was so fast. He was so good. But Chavez was relentless.

Julio Cesar Chavez was relentless julio says chavez was relentless right he just would bob and weave and bob and we even come pop pop pop pop and if we started getting to him started getting to him and then finally last round boom drops him and richard steele looks in the magic tail his eyes and he waves it off with two seconds to go oh wow and everybody's like oh and he never came back from that never came back from that he fought after that he always looked like something like julio chavez took a piece of him never he never returned 100 i'd tell you another it's a guilty pleasure fighting because i know i see what it does to guys you brought a riddick boat uh you know i talked to him once at

a fight and i'm like man this guy took some shots. Took some shots. And I'm not saying this disparagingly. No, it's just reality. Yeah, it was a tough one. Because I think about how much I enjoy watching these fights and then coming face to face with the price that so many pay. I saw Terry Norris at a fight once

and he was talking to a fan and I was moving on my way to the seat and I heard Terry talking to this guy and I was like, oh no. It was bad. Yeah. It was bad. Muhammad Ali, my hero. That's tough to watch.

Tough to watch. And it happens to all of them eventually. If they keep going, it happens to all of them. Yeah, you got to hang them gloves up at some point. Some of them are, you know, like, that's what makes Andre Ward so special. Andre Ward wins a gold medal in the Olympics, wins two world championships in two different weight classes,

retires undefeated. They offer him money to come back. He goes, I think I'm better served as a commentator. I'm done. Talks perfect. Talks perfect. Had him on the podcast. Brilliant guy.

Thoughtful. Articulate. Smooth. Classy. You know? And one of my prized possessions is some gloves he signed for me. You know, I'm a big fan of the Bay Area. And I was, you know, before the Warriors were champs, you know,

Andre Ward was carrying Oakland. He was their champion. And he's doing it with one arm. You know, Andre Ward was carrying Oakland. He was their champion. And he's doing it with one arm. You know that? No. Yeah. Andre Ward's right shoulder has basically been useless.

That's right. Most of his career. Yeah, this was when he was, I don't know what kind of contractual disputes he had. He had the shoulder surgery. He was going through all that. And we had a conversation. I was really, like, through all that. And we had a conversation.

I was really, like, inspired meeting him. And we had a conversation about exactly what you're talking about. We was talking to me. You know, we didn't know each other. I just happened to meet him. And he talked to me about hanging his gloves up. It's a crazy thing for a comedian to hear. Like, imagine saying, okay, I'm done with comedy.

Like, I could quit. I could say I quit the limelight. I don't know if I quit doing stand-up in some way, shape, or form. I don't know if I could take 30 years off like Eddie. Right, right. Yeah, Eddie keeps talking

about coming back, right? But he still hasn't. Listen, bro. He's funny as fuck. Like as far as like a naturally athletic comedian, I don't know that I've ever seen as equal. Yeah, I think you're right.

Remember that? I've never seen as equal. That speech where he talked about them taking Bill Cosby's, Mark Twain prize away. I was, I was there when he said that. it, it,

it was so, I can remember too, all the comedians who were there crowding around the monitor. Cause was the first time he did anything that looked like stand-up. Right. And he was smooth. Right. He stopped doing stand-up in 87. That's the year I started.

That's incredible. This entire time. And so if he does come back, you know, I'd be the first person to buy a ticket. I would watch a bad Eddie Murphy show. If he was really trying to do a thing, then before I would go see one of my own. I remember we were, I forget what club in New York we were talking, and Chris Rock was talking about how good Cosby was.

He went to see Cosby. At the Apollo. I've heard this story. And Bill Burr and I were planning on seeing Cosby. We were trying to figure out where we should go. I'll tell you where. A correctional facility in Pennsylvania. That's where he's at.

As we speak. It was before all that shit happened. We were thinking about going to see him somewhere. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, I look at these kids coming up, and there's things that they do much better than we did they can all produce they can all generate their own they make heat out of nothing right in the 90s you go to the fucking comedian's parking lot at the comedy store that

used to be filled with shitty cars yeah and now you'll see a guy you never even heard of getting to the hottest whip yep it's that now yeah i don't know these guys look like straight up contest winners like who the fuck is this guy but they're killing it internet money right but what's too bad about it is we're from a process of refinement that doesn't exist anymore right they'll never the road when you're anonymous right the road we anonymous then just being on the strip and a smoky night. Well, not smoky. No one smokes anymore. But being in one of those nightclubs.

That's a lot to miss. Yeah. The grind, the long grind of developing a real act. And to do it also where there's no cell phones. There's no distractions right is they're competing with too much and it's too bad for them like but i don't fault them for it i'm impressed that these kids made a new way but i like the way we do it there's a new way that they're doing where they one of the things that showed a lot of uh people's ability to improvise and to change was during COVID, a lot of people

started doing things online. And like Andrew Schultz, the best example, I think he started doing those things like turn your phone sideways and those long rants, like 10, 15 minute rants with photographs and punchline after punchline after punchline, and then they did a whole Netflix special about it. Like he did a series of Netflix pieces on it. And what he did was he said, okay, I can't do stand-up, but this isn't stand-up, so I shouldn't do stand-up like this because there's no audience. So the key to this, and he figured it out.

He's like, the key to this is you've got to hit it fast. The punchlines have to come one after the other after the other. It's got to be fast paced and with images so like he would use all these visuals while he was hitting punchline after punchline oh wow he figured out a new way to do comedy he figured out a way to do in internet instagram 10 minute comedy well okay it was but that's not like you say that's not stand-up no like this thing that you're describing god bless him yeah that's not what i do yeah it's different yeah it's different it's different than the way he does stand up which

is interesting because his stand-up is slower he he holds laughs he holds paws he laughs at shit he fucks around he works a crowd a lot his stand-up is loose right he has fun he's comfortable up there right but his these little clips that he does on Instagram are rapid fire, bang, bang, bang. He works with a series of writers. They all work together. They put these things together. They work it out, man. By the time it's done, I mean, it is a polished machine.

But he used that time and innovated. That's clever. Yeah. I don't think I'm not interested in it because no disrespect to him i i like happening in real life yeah like like even during covid the fact that we found a way to get in front of audiences again meant the world to me that's what i do yeah it's a different thing yeah i mean you know i could throw a slide showing the shit if i wanted to but that crowd's not there what's the fucking point for me?

I know what you mean, but for him, he's coming up still. You'd already made it. You just wanted to get back in there. Yeah, and it's a whole different ball of wax. That's what I'm saying. That evolution he was able to make, I'm like the old guy who has that hot outfit from the 70s. Fashion, go on without me.

I look fine. I'm that. I'm good with what I do. Those shows we did at Stubb felt real special. It might not ever be that special again, because it was hard. It was hard to do, and it was weird, and it was the fact that you could do a show in a pandemic,

like a real legitimate pandemic. And what it did for the people who were able to come. Yeah. And for the comedians who were able to participate. We all felt better. We felt a lot better. We had some wild fun. Yeah. Wild fun.

Life might be okay. Everyone, you know, just to laugh around other people. Yep. During a shit show of a circumstance, it was great. It was great. I wish that we could have done a more diverse array of shows, but we were locked into the circumstance we were locked in. We tested everybody.

Everyone who bought a ticket got a COVID test, free mask. As a comedian, it was a new experience. Being in a room full of people or whatever that venue was, full of people that just realized that they don't have the dreaded coronavirus. Right. And they're at a show and the music's playing and comedians they recognize come on the stage. It was like pure joy

in there no matter what we said at a certain point we all just we were all happy to be there comedians didn't take it for granted like you know you do a million sets you start thinking it's just another night at the office but every night at the office could have been the last night at the office yeah that was the thing about it too. It's like you're never going to have another day like that or another series of nights like that where there's a first real pandemic of our lifetime where things are shut down, but yet we do have this weird opportunity to do shows. So they felt electric.

They really did. They felt electric. Those shows that we did will remain etched in my mind that forever like that was special the fact that you know and and also man you know not no no gas to nothing but this fact that you're successful as you are at all these things you're wildly famous you're also very unaffected but you um you got nervous before your first set i respected that i said okay see this guy makes all this money still cares instead you see some guys you can see that you're a fighter sometimes the fight gets out of them

yeah your belly gets full you don't feel like going as hard as you used to. Or you might start worrying about what they say in the press and all that shit. None of that shit ever got to you, bro. You was going hard in the paint.

It was fun to watch. I'm like, yo, you going hard in the paint, bro. But it was fun, man. And the spirit that I love about the genre

was ever present. Everything's gonna be okay with the spirit of comedy love about the genre was ever present. Everything's going to be okay with the spirit of comedy always. Yeah. Yeah. And it was there. It just made me feel like, wow, this is. If I can't do comedy, I'm not going to do comedy. You know what I'm saying?

Like if I can't do real comedy, if I can't do comedy the way I've always done comedy, say wild shit that you don't even necessarily really mean, but it's funny. That's why you're saying that. And everybody knows. They know what you're everybody knows they know what you're doing they know what you're doing i know guys that you know and they're famous i don't but they struggle with this thing yeah they do yeah and they stop coming around and i miss their presence and their voices and a lot of these young comedians this process refinement is gone because they don't have these guys to look to. Right. Because, you know, they're making money and I don't want to upset anybody.

Yep. Yep. Kids are in college or whatever it's going to be. They don't want to ruin what they already put down. Yeah. They laid down some nice roots. They got a good thing going on. They don't want to fuck it up.

Would you ever leave the limelight? Yeah, sure. Does it bother you, the limelight? You don't live in a way where it. I don't do limelight things sure does it bother you the limelight you don't live in a wayward i don't um do limelight things you know i'm saying like i don't go you gotta try some of this shit out bro it's not bad you gotta try something i mean look you don't have to do it all the time once and again once and again i mean i i'm um i have needs and my needs are, you know, like exercise, keep my mind straight, all those needs. Like, those have to be fulfilled. Help me.

Yeah, they have to be filled for mental clarity. I get that. And if I don't do that, I don't, I'll lose my way. You also have a lot of access to shit. Who were you talking to yesterday yesterday was David Holthouse

who's a documentary filmmaker he's a journalist yeah every day you talk to some kind of jogger in some field

yeah Elon Musk or Malcolm Gladwell what do you think about the shit Elon's going through with Saturday Night Live ridiculous yeah it's puzzling no one is woke enough they Elon Musk or Malcolm Gladwell. What do you think about the shit Elon's going through with Saturday Night Live?

Ridiculous. Yeah, it's puzzling. No one is woke enough. They can't appreciate the fact that you're dealing with literally one of the most brilliant men that's ever lived who's going to come do your show. You're talking about a guy who simultaneously runs multiple world-changing businesses, whether it's Tesla, whether it's SpaceX, whether it's Tesla whether it's SpaceX Whether it's the boring companies making tunnels underneath the fucking earth He's putting satellites into space to put high-speed internet around the world. He's doing all these things simultaneously

But can he write a monologue? He's not funny He's a brilliant guy He could probably do anything if he set his mind to it But the fact that they've decided somehow that he's problematic like it doesn't make any sense He's not funny. He's a brilliant guy. He could probably do anything if he set his mind to it. But the fact that they've decided somehow that he's problematic, like it doesn't make any sense. I mean, yeah, but no one's really saying what. Is it just because he's rich?

Who knows? It doesn't matter anymore. They just decide. Like, what the fuck is this? And everybody's like, what the fuck is this? This is bullshit. Why him? There was no obvious catalyst for this or

no okay i was just curious uh there was uh some people that felt like he dismissed covid's danger at one point in time they didn't like him because of that but he did it just because he's intelligent because his perspective was he he's a reductionist or i should say like his his perspective on it was like looking at the numbers and looking at what it is as a thing, instead of looking at the emotional impact of people losing loved ones. So sometimes someone who's like a genius might say something that appears to be insensitive. I don't think he's insensitive. I think he was just looking at it in terms of like what is the odds that you're going to die

and saying that children are essentially immune. And he was saying things that a lot of people felt were insensitive. But that was, first of all, A, it was a long time ago. And B, he was just explaining his perspective on the disease. And he wasn't as fearful as they thought he should be. And then, you know, he came to our shows and his pictures of all of us hanging out maskless. And then people got COVID afterwards. A lot of people thought that it was his girlfriend that gave us COVID.

By the way, he and she were very incredibly kind. Super nice. Unaffected. I teased him about being the richest man in the world. He took it with good humor. And what's funny is I had hung out with him years ago after I quit Chappelle's show. When I was on that tour that I was telling you about

that was a tough one. We hung out on a tour bus and he says to me that night when we was all together here in Austin, he goes, I met you before. I'm like, I don't know. I have no recollection. And he looked kind of hurt. It was a long time ago. It was like two, three companies ago.

I just thought it was funny that he was the richest man in the world. I think these, whether the people that are complaining that he's going to be on Saturday Night Live, I think what's going on now is like they want someone to be 100% compliant to whatever ideology they're a part of.

And any deviation of that is problematic, whether it's because they think, like I saw an article that said Elon Musk donated $150 million to some charity and they called him a cheapskate. That's hilarious. How hilarious is that? Wait till they see when I'm a billionaire.

Get ready for this cheapskate. No, my brother. But it was such a shitty article it's just a poorly written knucklehead article yeah it's again like you say no one can be woke enough you know i'm torn because i like a warrior for a good cause but but I'm really into tactics. You're not going to nag people into behaving in a way that's, you know, in fact, if you continue with this tone, even if you're right, you'll be very hard to hear.

Yeah, I think so. It's just, I don't mean, maybe it was the COVID thing, like I'm saying, but again, if I think back on his statements, I don't mean, maybe it was the COVID thing, like I'm saying. But again, if I think back on his statements, I don't think they were particularly insensitive. I think they were just, you know, it was more of like a factual bluntness to the way he discusses things. Because he's a numbers guy. He looks at things in terms of equations. I mean, he's trying to put people on Mars.

You know what I mean? I remember seeing him on your show once, just like on one of these YouTube clips. But I dug the clip. There was just one sound bite. He said, I have so much in my mind. Yeah. You remember this? Yeah.

Because I asked him, I'm like, what's it like to be you? Like, what's it like just thinking? He goes, you wouldn't want to be me. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It wasn't bragging. It was just like, he's being honest He goes, you wouldn't want to be me. I remember, yeah, yes. It wasn't bragging.

It was just like, he's being honest. Like, you wouldn't want this. His brain is like a hurricane. Like, there's just ideas like, like you could see it while he's sitting there. He's trying to sit here and just have a conversation with you. And he's probably going over fucking equations and thinking about concepts and new ideas and plotting things. I remember talking to somebody once. I'm not going to say who, but they go,

more than half the people on earth live on a dollar a day, and at least half of them are happy. He says, I know 20 billionaires, and all of them are miserable. Wow. This is reminiscent of a thing my father used to tell me about, just the nature of money and what he wants your life to be about. Now, I mean, I'm a lucky guy. I've met some billionaires.

I don't know who's brimming with happiness. Elon said he had a good time that night. Kanye, sometimes he's having a great time. Elon seemed like he had a good time that night. Kanye, sometimes he's having a great time. But I don't know when they're having fun if it's the money that's doing it. No, it's probably not. The money gives you a certain amount of freedom to do whatever you want to do,

but it also comes with so much pressure, so much responsibility, and so much scrutiny. Think about how many people are looking at every single thing that Elon does. Like this Saturday Night Live thing is a perfect example like they've just decided that it's not good that he's on saturday night live i mean i don't maybe i'm wrong maybe there is like a specific thing they're upset about but i haven't heard it yes that's what i was that's i'm like literally asking i'm not indicting the cast members and i'm fond of all of them but but this one puzzles me I see what I'm talking about what I'm saying I see people online going what the fuck is this like it's not even people that were the cast members that were saying that it's just folks online that were upset and I'm

like I don't get it like why are you upset what do you think's in it for Elon like if I was the richest man in the world would I do set it alive I don't know I mean I might just because I love comedy so much but what do you think I? Guess he loves comedy. Yeah, he loves comedy. Yeah, he does. I've seen him at the store a bunch of times. Yeah Yeah, is it cool probably cool? It's probably thought. Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah, I'll do it They probably called him a Saturday night live wants to know if you want to host Saturday night live. Oh Okay, he said okay. Yeah, there's something about that that's endearing. It's going to be interesting to watch his monologue.

I'm going to watch. Oh, yeah. Depending on where that fight is. I've got to watch that Canelo. Oh, that's this Saturday, right? Canelo Sanders. Oh, that's right. Hopefully they won't be against each other.

Is that fight out here in Texas? Dallas, yeah. Oh, shit. 70,000 cap. Oh! 70,000 people. Holy shit. Country's about to open up, man. It's open 70,000 people. Holy shit. Country's about to open up, man.

It's open. I did Jacksonville, Florida. We did the UFC a couple of weeks ago. Holy shit. It was wild. 15,000 people. Oh, yeah. I'm scared to go to Florida.

It was wild. It was wild. You probably see that Corona cloud from space in Florida. This motherfucker's been out there getting it. It was interesting. Nobody had a mask on it was uh it was like there was no covid you go everywhere you go people just out there walking around normal remember the last time when i was here when we were doing the shows together

and gosh remember we increased the cap so maybe we're up to like 700 people a night on a busy night right and we must have tested a few thousand people that week i don't know that we got a single positive that week i think we did i think we got um out of all the weeks we did it we only got like four positive tests out of thousands of people thousands of people that's when i was like okay this is it was i just remember feeling like, whew. Well, we're going to do the MGM. That's going to get wild, David. Oh, man. That's going to get wild, David.

Joe, let me tell you something. That gig, I'm not going to say the dates, but I know we're talking about doing another two dates towards the end of the summer. I'm very excited about this gig. I'm very excited, too. We're going to get wild. Oh, it's a fight weekend too

oh yeah yeah it's UFC weekend it's McGregor's fight yeah Conor and Dustin Poirier who's Dustin Poirier Dustin Poirier is the last guy

who beat Conor he knocked him out oh so it's his rematch yeah they fought twice one time I think six years ago Conor knocked him out

and then he just knocked out Conor oh they traded knockouts. It's a good one. Oh, it's a good one. It's a real good one. Maybe I'll stay an extra night.

Fuck, yeah. You know, I've never been to an MMA fight. What? That's outrageous. This is the one to go to. It's funny, man.

I'm such a boxing fan because it's the gentleman's sport. You know what I mean? MMA, all that grounded, pounded shit, it's like really intense. I remember talking to you

one night at the store. You were like, Dave, I see so much violence I'm starting to worry about myself. You know what I mean? MMA, all that grounded, pounded shit, it's like really intense. I remember talking to you one night at the store. You were like, Dave, I see so much violence, I'm starting to worry about myself. You know what I mean? Yeah. I worry because people get hurt and it doesn't bother me. Yeah, that's normal. Yeah, that's a tough one. This is one of the things that happened.

My wife cut her head. Like a hatchback, you know, the car thing was and she uh was pulling something out of the car and didn't realize that the corner of the she miscalculated and it stood up and it dug right into her head and blood was pouring down her forehead and i was like handle it bro i just looked at it like i was like that's nothing it's nothing she's like what are you talking about all this blood i go it's a tiny cat, it's nothing. And I'm like, oh Jesus, what's wrong with me? I'm so accustomed to people being broken.

I'm so accustomed to lacerations and concussions and broken bones and blood all over the place. I'm so accustomed to blood. Just. That's crazy, I can't even conceive this. It's a weird thing because I've definitely become desensitized i've seen i don't know how many thousands of fights up close i've seen so many people get fucked up and then there's my time from being a young guy and competing in martial

arts tournaments and seeing so many people get fucked up there so i've just seen like my whole life people get fucked up if you had like a just seen my whole life people get fucked up. If you had like a, if there was like a chart of all the people throughout history of seeing people get fucked up, like just the fuck beating out of them, I'm right up there. The Genghis Khan level? Yeah, there's not like a lot of people

that have probably ever lived, other than like warriors who fought with swords and shit. There's not a lot of people in the modern era who have seen as many people get the fuck beat lot of people in the modern era seeing as many people get the fuck beat out of them as me in person that is a crazy thing it's crazy yeah super desensitized to violence and and and injuries it's real strange do you think you'd ever come back from it you think if you took a break no and someone's getting in there you'd be like i'm too used to it and then there's you know, so I'm used to it with animals.

I'm used to taking animals apart. Okay, see, that's some next level shit. Yeah. Yeah, you get used to things like that. People get desensitized. Like doctors talk about that, like trauma room surgeons, stuff like that. They talk about that. They get very desensitized to injuries.

I remember talking to a doctor once about just that, but this conversation was more about from their work realizing the fragility of life. It's fragile. Yeah, humans are fragile. Yeah. Very fragile. We're so easy to injure. It's so easy to hurt people.

And not just physically, you know, emotionally. Emotionally. Yeah, I don't know, bro. I feel like recently our country, our biggest export is heartbreak. Like we got to do better than this. Not just our country, the whole world. Yeah, but we. Emotional heartbreakbreak like emotional pain being

given out online what that would be interesting to see like the emotional impact of like online interactions and harassment and people just fighting with each other online how much different the emotional content of like online interactions how much of an impact that's had on human beings that could be measured if like there was a number that you could attach to it quantifiable i'll tell you what i tell you what it's a weird thing but with comedy uh most comedians that that i know is and a of fact, this even goes with proficiency to a degree. The more proficient they are, usually somewhere you can see that they're wildly sensitive or empathetic. Yeah.

They do have a profound acuteness to how awareness of how they make other people feel. Yeah. Yeah. You know, people would think comedians are callous, but they're not. They're not. Mostly not. But sometimes they appear callous

because they'll go after somebody just for the laugh. Yeah, but I don't even know that that's callous. It's almost like, well, I got to sacrifice you for the joy of the rest of the world. That's what it is. Comedy without victims can be boring. Sometimes people gotta take a hit. I once roasted a guy that both lost his,

he lost both his legs in the war. And I roasted him. Wow. That crowd was uncomfortable. I bet. Him and his buddies were laughing so fucking hard because it was one of those things where you're like,

I don't know if I should talk about that, but when we, yeah, let me just, and then this guy was dying to talk about it. He had a real interesting story, like, you know, met the president many times and was like, you know, he sacrificed everything for the country but

his sense of humor was paramount. Like, he survived this thing and I can tell that his sense of humor was very instrumental in doing it. And the laugh that we had together, that was one of those special nights where it was like, people are dope.

People are dope. For the most part, people are dope. And they're dope when you're in front of them. They're dope people to people. You look in each other's eyes, being around each other. I think it's part of the problem that we're dealing with with the online shit is that all the normal cues of looking at someone and saying and talking to them being right there it's not there so you have this

ability to write things in text and say mean shit to people and you think it's okay because yeah you don't see him cry right you don't see him cry you don't you don't feel their pain you're just pushing buttons you're just pushing buttons metaphorically and literally yeah that's what it is how do you like doing this podcast that you're doing it's very good by the way it's very interesting because it's uh it's produced like you have music and it's edited it's's like, it's a different thing. It's dope. Now, there's a weird reason why it's done that way.

Because ultimately they'll all exist on vinyl. That's why the shows are the duration that they are so that they can fit on signs of vinyl. It's a while, you know, I'm curious to see how people will react to it, but I love doing it. They're gonna love it. The people that I'm working with. You know, I'm curious to see how people will react to it, but I love doing it. They're going to love it. The people that I'm working with, you know, Yassin Bey,

formerly known as Most Def, Talib Kweli, these guys are, like, great, great friends of mine. They're great artists. And, you know, it's like you. I could talk to you guys forever about a diversity of stuff. And so, in that sense, it's a joyful experience. to you guys forever about a diversity of stuff. Yeah. And so in that sense, it was a joyful experience. It was during COVID and the whole concept or the genesis of the show was just literally

us finding an excuse to be together. You know, everyone's always so busy, you know, as we get mature in the business and we got kids and we got this and we got that and we never catch up as much as we get mature in the business and we got kids and we got this we got that and we never catch up as much as we should yeah and and i'm telling you in this season we keep losing people that are important to our culture and important to our community it was almost like an emergency like yeah why are we around let's just let's just do something together it was one of these things definitely went about the money or anything like that, but it was about, you know, spending time with your friends. And, as you well know, there's an art form of conversation.

Yeah. You know, you're very, you're great at it. You know, most quality, I could talk to them forever. They're well-read, they're well-traveled, and they're hilarious dudes, and they got an interesting perspective. Some friends you have, you go around the world and you don't see each other often, but when you see each other,

it's like you'd seen each other just a moment ago, and you can download all these obscure and wild experiences and it's safe and it's comfortable and there's no judgment in it, because you're friends, You're truly friends. And that's the way I feel about those guys. And I think that's one of the things that makes the show so special, like fun to do. I look forward to it.

Yeah, that's everything. Enthusiasm is contagious. If you're having an enthusiastic conversation with someone, that's one of the things that makes it interesting to listen to because when you're listening, it's like you're a fly on the wall that's what people like about a good conversation you could be in the room without being in the room you're here and like there's folks listening to us right now in traffic and they're here right they're here right there's no that much different i mean they don't they don't see us if they're driving but maybe

they're watching it on the video. It's not much different than sitting in the room. There's a missing element because you're not physically here, but it's pretty damn good in terms of the ability to be a part of a conversation. And it changes the way you look at things. Because the more people that I can talk to and get their take on how they think and how they do it enhances my own way of looking at things and talking to people yeah and that's that's again the big problem with all the lip button in there i kind of like hearing all these different perspectives whether i agree with them or not you know you can't silence people you got to let them fuck up if they fuck up and you know there's nothing wrong with apologizing either. If you fuck up and you say something wrong,

it's nothing wrong with apologizing. I don't disagree with that. I think context is everything. Yeah. It depends on where I am when I said it. Yes, yeah. You know what I mean? If I'm on a comedy stage and you fucking print

a joke I wrote like it was a stump speech, that's a fucked up thing to do. It's a fucked up thing to do, yeah. And you know, but you know but if I'm at a press conference and I whoopsie poopsie, then there you go. Sorry, everybody. Yeah. Whoops.

Well, it's just, especially with stand-ups. I mean, Jesus Christ, how many times is stand-ups just going out to dinner, having a couple of drinks? We say the most ridiculous shit ever. It's the greatest. That's like one of the joys of my life. Now, think about being a politician.

Who's signing up for that shit now? All these Republicans talking all that shit. And I'm not trying to be partisan, but when them motherfuckers rushed to Capitol, did any of you guys go to greet your constituents? No, you ran to the bunker. Yeah. I feel like, you know, but constituents aren't like fans. Did you ever see those videos of cops opening the doors and letting people in and opening the gates and letting people through?

I did. What the fuck is that? I don't know. I never had that explained. There was an investigation about that. I don't know the results of it, but I'd heard about it. You know, what's ominous about it is you got to think there's probably like 300 cops on duty, Capitol Hill, right? By the end of it, D.C. police get called in, Homeland Security gets called in, you know, FBI.

So now there's a thousand guns inside of the Capitol. You know, it's like that could have went a million different ways. You have members accusing other members of Congress of giving tours and showing people sensitive areas. And, you know, this kind of suspicion within law enforcement, within government, it's a very ominous sign. Yeah. This type of partisanship is a very ominous sign yeah this type of partisanship is a very ominous sign that you know this lexicon now so binary republican democrat republican democrat this is not doing us any favors you know that in a perfect world the best idea wins right and and in this current

situation i don't know that people even agree on what the truth is. That's a problem. It's a real problem. Chris Rock had a great bit about it. What did he say? Remember that bit about gangs, like that people just join gangs? No. Yeah. What did he say? It's just a, I don't want to fuck it up, but it's basically how, whether they're a Democrat or a Republican, they really just get into gangs.

It is that. Yeah. They just decide that this is my gang. Right. And their constituents are worried that they're feckless. And like you say, the speed of information is so much faster now than the speed of bureaucracy. Yeah.

That's a problem. It'd be like if you turned the air conditioner on in your car and it came on four months later. We needed the heat right now, bro. Especially with the stimulus checks, right? Like how long did it take before they actually sent checks out in the mail? Remember all the talk about it? Oh, I do. Took forever. I wonder why they never, I guess I know why. I was going to say, it's a stupid question, why they never suspended the gift tax. Like if I wanted to give my brother or my sister or my friends some money during a time like this why tax that transaction they want the money well not just they want the money think about how rich people would move their

money around of course if they unfettered that yeah it's it's the greed is killing us their greed our greed is killing us it's not good no it's not good at all but you know it's again like what we were talking about before like you would give the taxes up if you felt like it was for something right it really felt like it did like if you knew that your tax money was really enhancing the world really helping right instead of going to some fucked up red tent. We're bringing crowns to the ghetto. What? Why are you doing that with the money? Because kids need crowns in the ghetto.

It's like, who's prioritizing this shit? I don't know, bro. I mean, not to be cynical, but this thing. It's tricky. This one we're doing now. I hope everyone does anything that they can do to help foster trust amongst each other. I'm not talking about government and politics. I don't give a fuck if someone likes Trump or anything. I know a lot of good, decent, hardworking people that have political ideas that I think are nonsense. that have political ideas that I think are nonsense.

But I don't conflate that with their character. I don't conflate that with culture. These things are all different issues. You know, what they say, throw the baby out of the bathwater. They can't do that. I'm not going to throw a whole person away because they have four ideas I don't like. I just hope that if the economy can bounce back, people will start to relax again.

And if not just vaccines, but also some form of effective therapy. So that even if someone's not vaccinated and they get COVID, there's a very effective way to treat it. If that does happen. All right. What about this? This is what if say they didn't cure COVID. They had no vaccine and nothing. It was just like six months ago. But during that time, they stumbled onto a cure for AIDS.

Do you stay in or do you go out? Stay in it or go out? What do you mean? Do you stay inside or do you go out? COVID's still out there, but AIDS is cured. Oh, I keep going out. Yeah, I keep going out. No AIDS yeah i keep going out yeah no aids break out that disco ball we're going we're going to the goddamn disco fuck over the real problem is if it becomes some like not even covet but something else it's worse like some really

bad one like a spanish flu like something that kills a large percentage of the people that get it this one's pretty bad though but it was less than one percent which i'm talking about something that kills 10 20 jesus i couldn't imagine those are real i mean those have existed throughout history this one when we say it's pretty bad we it's pretty bad but it's pretty bad because of the sheer numbers of human beings we got lucky in the sense that i, obviously not lucky for anybody who died and nothing but love and respect to all those people that lost loved ones. That's right.

But we're talking about just raw numbers. And I think this is also what got Elon in trouble. When you look at the 99 point, whatever it is, percentage of people that survive when they get it, especially when they're young, especially people with no comorbidities. That is a relatively mild pandemic in comparison to what's happened in history. If you look at any sort of real plague, like horrific ones, again, like the Spanish flu. I mean, this last one, New York City for a month straight lost 2,000 people a day. It's hard to wrap my mind around that. It's hard to wrap your mind around. I met some woman who was an ER nurse in new york you know who had to witness the carnage up close i couldn't i mean there was a lot of mistakes made that uh i wonder if they would go back first of all the

respirators remember when they were all looking for respirators yeah new york city needs respirators then they realized no no respirators kill people. Respirators kill people. Right. I do remember this. Yeah. They didn't know. But that's the thing with COVID. Like nobody, it's like, it's like getting COVID. When I got COVID, the first few days, like you just sit around and wait to see what it'll do to you. You know what I mean?

And, and, and I was, I was incredibly lucky. I was, I was like largely asymptomatic, you know? So I was smoking cigarettes the I was largely asymptomatic. You know, so I was smoking cigarettes the whole time, the whole shit. But I was waiting to get flattened. How many days did it take before you tested negative? Maybe inside of 10. Inside of 10 days. Whatever my immune system did, that shit worked.

And you take vitamins? Do you take care of yourself? I did all the shit shit matter of fact uh you gave me a vitamin regimen i took it very seriously i took all that shit oh good yeah what was it zinc and all this other shit yeah i took the shit d3 i you know whether that was what was doing it or not i don't know but i did it well it most certainly would help it didn't hurt me yeah it didn't hurt didn't hurt me and like i said i was largely asymptomatic so you know i felt very lucky but there was other people that i knew in that same outbreak you know and they had a tough time with it everyone yeah thank god is healthy but it's not you know just doesn't do the same thing to

everybody it doesn't and and and that's what's, I guess. Vitamins are everything. And that's one of the things that made me furious during this time, that there was no emphasis on taking vitamins. They didn't make it seem like it was a big deal. And there was no emphasis on getting healthy and losing weight. Not in the media, but, you know, every health, and, you know, again, this is the latest thing to say,

but every healthcare professional I talk to, because I have access to decent healthcare, did bring up the importance of vitamins. And when you said that, it wasn't completely foreign to my ears. I'd heard such things. You just gave me a very specific regimen, and I tried it, and it worked. It didn't hurt me. Yeah. No, you cruised through it.

So did Donnell, which is hilarious. I know, because he's in terrible shape. you cruise through it. So did Donnell, which is hilarious. I know, because he's in terrible shape. If Will Smith thinks he's in terrible shape, he needs to take a look at Donnell. For real.

Oh, yeah, Will Smith did pose as a dad bod. Hilarious. It's hilarious. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm in the worst shape of my life. He's a funny dude. With a big smile on his face, though. He's a funny dude. Well, I think what Will Smith is probably going to do, Willith's one of those dudes that just like sets his mind to things i bet what he's

going to do is take that photograph and then you're going to see him four or five months from now shredded that's what i bet oh yeah i could see that yeah that's the motivation the motivation is he takes a pose looks terrible looks like shit tells everybody hey this is the worst shape I've ever been in my life. And then he's like, all right, now it's go time. Yeah, it's funny. He still looked like a movie star in Bad Shake. How the fuck are you doing this, Will? Remember when he played Ali?

It was amazing. Dude, he looked great. He looked fucking great. Yeah, he did. He looked great. I mean, he got in tip-top Magoo shape. He looked fucking fantastic in that movie. If you think about even the courage it would take to take on a role like that.

How about Jamie Foxx? Who's he playing? Tyson. Yeah, okay, that's going to be dope. Because Jamie, I'm sure probably by now, if he couldn't before it, can talk just like Mike Tyson. Oh, yeah. If I memorize the rhythm of Mike Tyson. Oh, yeah.

And he'll probably look like him somehow. Jamie's an alien. He's so nice with it. I remember watching Ray being like, I can't believe I know this dude. And he was doing Ray Charles so good. And then he took the sunglasses off. I'm like, oh, he Jamie again. He's so talented in every way.

He's so talented as a singer. He's talented as a comedian. He's talented as an actor. He's just got a way he's got a thing he's gotten there's no fat in his portrayals you know he just cuts through it it's clean he just knows how to do it he's also one of those feel-good people yeah you know super positive yeah he's just fun to be around i've never seen him as like a party pooper ever. Right. He's fucking jacked right now.

Is he really? Jacked. Yeah, because he's building up to play Tyson. Look at him. Jeez Louise. Yeah, and, you know, he's not even done yet. He's building up into Mike Tyson's shape. Yeah, that's never going to gonna happen to me by the way

i got i got swole for a minute but then i was like this is stupid you did you got pretty big for a while it was it was ridiculous what happened uh covet well before covert yeah i stopped working out in code last time i can remember being in a gym was like uh february working out in cold last time I can remember being in a gym was like February 2020 you know I mean and then after that it was just like you know I was on the road I was in London why'd you get jacked though what made you decide to start working out that Chappelle show shit bro yeah yeah you know honestly what I think one of the catalyst was not, not the catalyst, but one of them was the fact that they kept saying I smoked crack. And I was a skinny dude and felt like I can't defend myself in this.

Like I'm so skinny that this thing is believable. That bugged the fuck out of me. How many people said you smoked crack? Was it in articles? Like what was it in? I believe it was an article in Newsweek. They didn't say I smoked crack. It was some legal precision it was some guy saying i'm not saying it was the drugs at the time

i wouldn't you know i wouldn't do nothing i was like this is fucked up yeah crack so that's a that's one of those like if you were gonna do something to ruin your life that's the thing i mean i was from d My, our mayor smoked crack. He seemed fine. It's not, well, it's just, yeah.

Wasn't that obscure? It was poor people. Cocaine. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Um, do you know who, uh,

Dr. Carl Hart is? No, he's a really interesting guy. He's, uh, a guy who is a clinical researcher and was real straight laced. And, but, uh, he was, uh, a university researcher and was real straight-laced and but uh he was a university

researcher i forget what you know what university is yet i forget but columbia brilliant brilliant guy i've had him on the podcast a couple times but was researching the effects of drugs and started realizing the depictions the depictions of drugs and drug use are all fucked up like people have this distorted idea what these drugs do to you like he loves heroin and he talks about it like does he does heroin he snorts heroin all times like pure heroin is wonderful you like it's great it like it enhances my relationship with my wife and you know he talks about trying pure cocaine and all these different drugs he's like he does drugs all the time And he's a professor. He's a professor at Columbia

Oh wow brilliant guy and like it's tough to argue with him because he knows so much about drugs from the perspective of an actual researcher and Plus a guy who actually uses them, but goes out of his way To tell you he has dreads like he don't look like a typical professor in that sense it is like you look so but wait what what is he a professor of exactly yeah there you go okay psychology psychologist okay so let's you know psychiatrist prescribes drugs yeah but a psychologist diagnosis mental illness right yeah okay yeah psychologists try to help you work through things right isn't that the idea yeah but this

guy doesn't sound he sounds like any functional drug addict i've ever met and in my line of work i i have met and do know many yeah but he's not a drug addict he's actually in but he just said he does drugs all the time does whatever drugs he wants. Let me guess. He can quit anytime he wants. He's actually put himself through withdrawals on purpose to document it. So he's put himself into a situation where he did heroin multiple days in a row to the point where his body became physically addicted and then got off of it just to document what the withdrawal process is actually like.

And he says it's like having a flu. This is the most clever drug addict I've ever heard of. I'm not sick. I'm documenting sickness. It's crazy. Yeah. I don't know, bro. I think that shit, I've seen so many wonderful people that I'll never know in the same way again.

Because of drugs. Because of drugs. That's true. It's heartbreaking. But what makes them, what makes one person fall apart due to drugs and another person not? That's where it gets tricky. Because some of it's biological, some of it's... Right, but it's just

like covid and what and why did i feel fine and in 2 000 people a day in new york that mean well they don't start because i know the fat people don't like it's uh there was a lot of things going on in new york wasn't just the obesity but i have a friend who was a doctor there and he said did say it was a lot of obese people, unfortunately. If you eat bad food, bad things happen. And that's just the reality of being a human being. Right, but I also think it's the reality of being a drug addict. Right.

Take bad drugs, bad things happen. Right. This shit is nothing to play with. And how many minds are strong enough, like this professor, to responsibly do hard drugs? Yeah. This is a rare, it's like an X-Men superpower. Well, he's also a guy who understands the actual physical reaction these chemicals and compounds have on the brain and on the body.

He knows it from like, you know, an academic perspective. I mean, and Michael Jackson OD'd drugs that was administered yeah by a physician well that was weird shit right yeah imagine the kind of stress that that guy was under he was under so much stress he had to get anesthetized every night yeah I couldn't imagine any thing Michael Jackson did once he bought that first giraffe, I was like, you're on a whole new level, bro. I don't know any of the emotional content of a guy's life like that. There's people that were pioneers in the fame game. And you think about Michael Jackson's one of them.

Elvis is another one. There's people that were pioneers in being super famous to the point where nobody had been super famous like Michael Jackson before Michael Jackson. I don't know that anyone ever will again be what he was or Elvis was or the Beatles were. It's a different thing. No. That shit is – I think that shit is done. Yeah. Maybe.

It's a different thing. I can't think of one thing that everyone will agree on that much right ever again right in this context i remember michael jackson i've told this before but michael jackson i was listening to uh wbcn the rock of boston and uh they were going look i know this isn't rock but it's so fucking good we're gonna play it anyway and they played michael jackson oh that's it's that it was that good yeah it was so good they played it on rock stations he was ubiquitous yeah i mean you know who knows what the fuck that scope was like the closest thing that i've ever like seen

of that up close would be like eddie yeah one of the guys who's been you know on that level yeah and eddie is is a cool motherfucker in fact if you're in his orbit it feels normal in there yeah go to his house and bowl and talk shit and you know his kids come in and out and you know it's just like a he it seems like a sitcom but it's really hilarious. Eddie got the heat. He's funny as fuck, bro. Can talk like anybody. Says wildly imaginative things. Why do you think he doesn't do stand-up?

You know, this shit ain't no bicycle, man. You know what I mean? He's an anomaly in the sense that I'm sure it would come right back to him like when he cuts up in the house it should be real funny but I don't know what it would mean I don't know what it means to him having been this person with his right what's also he feels like his material when he goes back and watches raw he's's kind of embarrassed by it. He's, you know, that it's...

You know, it's funny. When I put out my first two Netflix joints, I think it was on Kimmel. It was the only press I did. But there was a thing going on in the press where everyone was saying that the specials were dated, you know, because there were jokes in there that they considered transphobic, you know,

and I still don't think those jokes are transphobic. I'm not going to have that discussion, but if I ever have to, boy, I'm ready. But the point is that the thing I said to Kimmel was, I don't get mad at a photograph because it wasn't taken today. In other words, whatever was going on in 87 when he laid that set down it was working in 87 that's what that's where people are at and a good comedian is an indicator of the time or their context and i look at eddie shit like that like i wouldn't look at any of his old material as embarrassing sometimes i'm starting like wow I could never do that now. Right.

But it makes it even more fun to see that there was this time when he was just saying these things. You know, I'm a comedian. I don't smell any malice in it. I don't think he's trying

to hurt anybody. No. This guy is just cracking. He was doing comedy that was relevant during the time that he was doing it. The world was a different place.

Right, and it's not irrelevant now. The thing that's remarkable is he's a different guy now, which is why he feels embarrassed. It's not even about what happens to the world. It's what happens to this guy in the world. He sees the world different now, and this happens. Crazy thing is he doesn't look a day older.

He looks great. He looks amazing. He looks great. Yeah, it's amazing. One time I was watching TV with Eddie, and Sanford and Son rerun was on. And he says, I'm as old now as Red Fox was in this episode. Wow.

Sanford and Son. That's crazy. Right, and then I look at the television, I look at Eddie, I'm like, damn. He goes, yeah, I'm as old now as Carol O'Connor was in All in the Family. You think how Archie Bunker looked. That motherfucker looked terrible. That's crazy.

He looked terrible. There goes Eddie looking like his 1987-ish. That's crazy. Yeah. That is wild. Yeah, he's just taking so good care of himself. What does he do? Does he exercise a lot?

No, I have no idea. It's like Prince. I've never seen Prince eat or drink anything. I'm sure he does it. I don't know what Eddie does. He bowls. He's a family guy and stuff like that. He's really into his family.

It's good to see. It's normal, bro. For all the things you'll hear about hollywood i'm always startled how normal everybody is i don't know if it's just the angle i get to see or but all that pageantry and shit that's completely unsustainable nobody can do that all the time. Somewhere, somehow, you're just going to be yourself. Isn't it weird that that's what we think about when we think about Hollywood? We think about red carpets and people with tuxedos on

and ridiculous watches and purses and all just standing there on the red carpet. It's a tough one. It's weird. I mean, I don't knock. And by the way, I don't knock anybody for doing that at all. I don't think. But that ain't what we're doing.

No. Mm-mm. I'm not interested. No, it's fun sometimes. It's just so weird. It's so different than real life. Yeah, but in a weird way, that is their real life. That's a work thing.

It's a peak work thing. It's like this is peak glam ta-da but this thing where and i think this is changing in the culture remember there was this thing about celebrities could never be unhappy yeah fuck that man that's that's you know i'm not saying they should display that but you assume just assume everybody has a bad day. Right. Fuck that red carpet face. I don't want to make that fucking face for the rest of my life.

Yeah. Fuck that. I think, you know, as I get older, I'm overwhelmed by how human we all are. It really makes me like people more. And forgive people more that's important that's everything forgive people and forgive yourself yeah forgive yourself i just think that the i don't know in this season of my life uh i'm into i hope hopefully I'll do something I will make this

mean something other than just the trappings of success how hot my whip is or you know how pretty my bitch is and all this stupid shit that we have been trained to focus on I wanted I wanted to be better than that

what do you want to do? do you have an idea? I have some ideas. Nothing I would really want to. I don't want to make any public declarations because then I might have to do the shit. But as just a general rule. And by the way, there's so many surprising ways that you can be of use to people. Not big things everyone always

trying to hit a homer but sometimes it smile you muster for a person or you know it's a lot of things you can do I just try to you know walk softly on the earth and have some fun you know but I just know that investing celebrity into more to getting more celebrity is a treadmill I don't feel interested in running on in the twilight of my life. Right. Yeah, fuck that. Yeah, no, you get it. You know what it's like to be famous.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm not mad at fame. When you say fame, I'm not mad at that. Celebrity, well, that's the one. What's the difference? It's fine. I was talking to Letterman at that. Celebrity, well, that's the one. What's the difference? It's fine. I was talking to the letterman about it. Celebrity is the role.

That's the one on the red carpet. You're famous. It's not that you're not a celebrity, but it's not like you're sticking your pinky toe out on the red carpet. You're not going places and people saying, what are you wearing? You didn't make your life about that. You're not tethered to endorsements and this that and the other you're tethered to yourself to your

journey to your life it which makes it meaningful you know and you know for you to talk the shit that you talk even in this context there's a courageousness is that you have to you know know, you're subject to so much outside scrutiny, you know but you do it anyway that's why it's courageous, you know you're relentless to yourself this is a practice skill

this takes some consistency you have to choose in the beginning. You have to take an inventory and know who you actually are. Some people think they are the famous guy. Fame is your circumstances. It's not necessarily who you are. Trust me, when I left the show,

I wasn't famous. It was circumstances that I left behind. I mean, I was famous, but it wasn't that thing. Right. It's different. And I realized, you know, when we came up, we coveted that thing without even knowing what it was.

Well, because it seemed unattainable. You would see other people that had it. You know, someone would show up at the club and walk through, and you'd be like, oh, shit, look at him. Look at him. Everybody knows who he is. You know? Right, but it was still an abstraction like you know right if martin walks in and like he's brimming with happiness right martin walked martin was the first guy that i

ever saw that walked in with security hilarious i was like wow he's got security at the store and needed it bro oh yeah i people forgot how fucking strong martin lawrence was god damn his act was powerful i used to have to follow him mitzi shore was hilarious she used to always she thought you were funny she would put you on after the best comedians and just throw you right to the wolves she always thought it was funny she always put me on after i was you know 27 26 years old whatever i was she would put me on after martin lawrence all the time and i would just bomb but that's what that's how you get great i remember the first time i met martin i was in high school wow i saw martin do a show him and tommy davis this might be one of the best single comedy shows I've ever seen. And it was like a local

D.C. club. Marlon Wayans was there. He was going to college in D.C. at the time. It was the night I met him. And man, first of all, Tommy Davidson went on. He, man, this motherfucking Tommy can crack. He's a funny, funny, funny, funny

guy. Great performer. Great impressionist. Every skill set that you could think of, he has in abundance. And Martin was headlining. I watched Tommy's show, and I was worried for the headliner. When does that ever happen? Martin was fine. Martin was fine.

Like the shit he did on that stage that night. And this was like in the area that he grew up in. So he had that set. You know, there's probably a couple girls in high school that dissed him that was there and that kind of shit. He did the thing, bro. And I'm telling you, Martin Lawrence was a beast. He was a beast. On stage.

People forgot for some reason. Shit, I'll never forget. I'm from D.C., so I can't forget. When I was starting out, he was the local legend already. Well, when I first came to L.A., it was in 94. He was in his peak. In his peak. Oh, yeah, Jesus.

That was you so crazy days. Yeah, that was some Elvis shit. He was hosting Def Jam yeah he had the sitcom yeah he was putting out specials and just started getting big in that movie game and the spec when you watch his sitcom people forget he did a bunch of different characters on that show like it was all him the show was all him yes he was he was nice with it he's still he's probably still nice with

it i mean i haven't seen martin in a long time i haven't seen him in forever i ran into him at the store like a few years back which is briefly you know he was doing a few sets every now and then he called me after i won the mark twain prize and if you you know because i'm from dc i gotta tell you this call it means a lot to me yeah he was yeah he was one of my early local heroes i came up on a good circuit too like when boston but dc wanda sykes would start out with me pat nalswa was around you know tony woods martin lawrence time davidson uh there was some There was some great comics. That's one thing that comedy always needs. You need to be around other great comics.

That's true. The circuit. And back in those days, no internet, nothing. Every city has some different energy. And the comedians, they're like, it's always exciting to go to a city and check out the other acts. Yeah.

Boston, like you say, that was one of those cities. It was a weird city. It was. But it was a trap. That's what we were talking about before. Those guys can make six figures staying in town, but that's what they did. Because if they went on the road, they'd actually make less money. What made you go to Hollywood?

Why didn't you fall for that? I saw what they were doing. And even though they were great comedians, I saw that they couldn't do the road. And I was like, if you want to get on HBO or if you want to, you know, you have a special, you got to get out of town. And the young guys coming up kind of saw the old guard. Some of the best headliners I've ever seen in my life. I've seen Don Gavin have sets. Steve Sweeney has sets. I mean, I would put those sets up against anyers I've ever seen in my life. I've seen Don Gavin have sets. Steve Sweeney has sets.

I mean, I would put those sets up against any comic I've ever seen ever. You know what's funny? The first night I saw Dane Cook, they go on after so-and-so. You know, it was a cocky deal. I didn't really worry about none of that shit. But I heard the crowd scream so loud I thought they had introduced me. Wow. It was Dane.

He was just starting out. These were crowd reactions. There was a thing in Boston, everyone was a room ripper. They were all about volume. Intensity. Yeah, Don Gavin, that rapid fire style, I'll never forget. And then, in the midst of all that, you'd have a counterweight like stephen wright

this wonderfully understated deadpan comedian it was that shit was fire boston was a good circuit have you ever seen the documentary when stand-up stood out no there's a comic named fran solomita he put together this documentary on boston it's really good it just shows you what what it was like back in those days like they kind of invented a movement there's really good. It just shows you what it was like back in those days. Like, they kind of invented a movement. There's really a lot of it was Barry Crimmins.

Rest in peace. Who's Barry Crimmins? Barry Crimmins was like the godfather of Boston comedy in a lot of ways because he was this really brilliant guy, very politically savvy

and he kept everybody from being a hack because everybody was scared of him. Oh, wow. He was like this fucking loud, bold guy. He would go on stage, and he had a jacket on.

He would pull a Budweiser out of the inside pocket of his jacket and set it on the table. He had these things he would do, but it was a great comic, but maybe more important, he was like a cornerstone of the scene. Like if Barry didn't like you, you were fucked. Right. if if barry didn't like you you were fucked right if barry thought you were a hack you were fucked and they didn't tolerate hacks he didn't tolerate thieves he was quality control quality control yeah every every circuit i guess yeah yeah and this is the thing that dane cooks talked about this too that they were all men

these guys were all these big guys they were all like six foot plus big burly guys who did a lot of coke and got in street fights all those comics they weren't like nebbishy you know comics who would you know talk about their insecurities they were wild dudes they were like rock stars yeah i mean i remember doing a show in boston again i'm like saying names but i just remember uh seeing a guy who was heckling me, and the security threw him down the steps. Yeah. And I had never seen anything like that, but so casually. Like, this is what we do with trash.

Like, Jesus, man. Yeah, there was a lot of violence in Boston. It was. It was weird, and I never really got a feel for that city. I would meet these intellectuals and idiots in the same block. The fuck is this place? Well, there's more colleges per capita in Boston than anywhere else in the country. Yeah, yeah.

I used to go up there and play college gigs all the time. And, you know, I remember the Boston police felt particularly menacing. Yeah. Those fucking high boots they wear with no horse to match. Fuck off. You Gestapo ass dudes. It's a weird city. But then they produced so many great sources of comedy.

Even people who aren't front bars. A guy like Howard Stern that went to BU. A guy like Patrice O'Neal came out of the hood, moved down to New York, and cleaned shit up out there. It was an interesting scene. Patrice is a similar type of thing, right? He was like a cornerstone of comedy in New York. When people talk about people getting silly or being stupid, they go, God, I wish Patrice was here to see this. Yeah, Patrice, yeah, he had that world-weary kind of swag about him.

Early on, me and him didn't get along, but we became friends, because this guy was like, he was a real deal. He was a real deal. God, I wish he stayed alive. I do too, man. Oh, the comedy he would've put out during all this shit.

And that's interesting, because I don't know what would happen to a guy like him in this context. He's not buckling. I'll tell you that. I know. So I say, I don't know what's going to happen to him. Yeah, it would be interesting to see.

It really would be. You know, one can only imagine. One can only imagine. But he was something else. He was a funny dude. I remember him and kevin got to new york around the same time i just think kevin was from boston because i'd see them together so much i just so uh and their arrival on the scene was like both you know both these guys when they got

on the scene it was it was noticeable it wasn't like they came in quietly. They was doing some shit. That's another thing that every scene needs. Every scene needs a rocket. Yeah, someone that shakes shit up. Yeah, like, whoa. Like, someone who's not stagnant. They're not complacent. They're going for it.

I got to tell you, New York City in the 90s, some of the greatest comedy I've ever seen. It was weird, too, because I was one of those guys York City in the 90s some of the greatest comedy I've ever seen like it was it was weird too because I was one of those guys that would be in New York and then go out to LA a little earlier than everyone else like you know I did Montreal and then I'd go out for this and I go out for that and I started you know auditing both scenes you know New York was like the dream but la uh those comics were like the work ethics were different new yorkers write more you know in general if you do if you do

10 spots in a night you come up with a new joke on the third show you got seven cracks at it by the end of the night yeah even though you just thought of the thing is refined yeah that's a good point yeah la didn't have any opportunity to do that that's a different world right la people were so competitive about stage time they was that shit's like the karate kid tournament these motherfuckers got killed every night sweep the leg but leg. But sensei, you got a problem with that? That's L.A. No mercy. L.A. in the 90s was everybody trying to get a sitcom, too.

That was part of the problem. Oh, yeah. It was a gold rush. Yeah. They saw what happened with Roseanne and Jerry Seinfeld. I don't even know if that was coming completely from the comedians. The studio system was so hungry for comedians to build these shows around. Yeah.

They would give you these crazy development deals. Yeah. Man, you know, I did a million of those. It took me like 13, 14 of them shits to be like, man, fuck that shit before you get a Chappelle show. But the good thing is I learned how television worked, basically. How it was supposed to work and what I'd like to do with it. What was interesting is that they basically gave you free money. The people don't understand this.

Like, they would give you, like, a half a million dollars or a quarter million dollars, and you would get this development deal, and they'd attach you to a bunch of writers. They'd put together a script, and it may or may not go. And if it didn't go, you just got a free quarter million dollars, and you worked on a script, and maybe it went to pilot, maybe it didn't go you just got a free quarter million dollars and you worked on a script and maybe it went to pilot maybe it didn't yeah but if it didn't go you were a bad investment you had a couple of those in you and it could hurt it could hurt you it could you know if they ever look at you like you're a bum investment thing was with me i was funny yeah but they didn't quite know what to do with me yeah and I didn't know either. Yeah. I don't know. Those days, the Montreal days were weird, right?

People go out there, just go out there to showcase. Showcase their talent, try to get a deal. And then, do you remember Chicken? Do you remember that guy? I do remember. He got some huge deals. Huge deal. Mid-90s. And it didn't.

Late 90s. It flopped terribly. Like, for whatever reason, they thought he was funny and nobody else did. Yeah, the name Chicken should have tipped him off. Maybe this is bad ideas. Who should we make the check out to? Chicken? Well, he had a big, crazy act.

It was like a lot of energy. I never saw him work. I saw him work. I worked with him in Montreal. But that name is stupid. No disrespect, Chicken, but that's a stupid-ass name. So it all fell apart, and then he wound up hanging himself in front of a school. Oh, now you got to bring that up.

I feel bad because I just shouted out Chicken, and this nigga's dead for five years. Oh, my God. He hung himself in front of a school? Yeah. Yeah. There a school? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Because of comedy?

It didn't work out. It fell apart. So he thought he was on this rocket ship to fame. Like, oh, my God, I got the biggest deal ever. He got the biggest development deal anybody had ever heard of. I remember. And then they were like, they're going to make a show around him. I forget what kind of show it was going to be.

And then it didn't work out. And then he slowly faded away. And then he vanished. And then one day he killed himself. How long after the deal fell apart? Quite a long time. More than a decade. He never got over the experience of almost making it?

I don't know. Who knows? I mean, maybe he was mentally ill. Maybe he was suffering from depression from the beginning, and maybe that big, crazy, wild act was his escape. So it may have not had anything to do with show business. Totally possible. But it's not a good narrative.

The good narrative is show business got him, right? Yeah. See if you can find that guy. I never saw his set. I remember everyone in town was talking about him. I'd never seen him. Comedians couldn't understand what was going on. He would make a lot of noise and bounce around on stage

and screaming and yelling, and everybody's like, what is he doing? I've seen a few comics like that. They'll be killing, though, and I'll be like, I don't understand. Well, the agents thought they had it. They're like, this is it. He's going to be huge.

We got him, and they played against each other and got this giant deal this is tragic it's weird now i'm mourning the loss of chicken i never even met this motherfucker there were quite a few people that thought they were going to be giant i remember quite a few people who got development deals and and all of a sudden they had assistants like you know right you got an assistant people would show up with an assistant and someone would take notes while they're on stage and they'd have their coffee ready for them and they were you know they've drove a Mercedes great like what are you doing we got a development deal my show's gonna go it's a gotta guarantee and then they do the pilot right that's why I call my company

pilot boy you know I'm in a fucking pilots I did? I was like, fuck this. This is going to be forever. It was hell. That's why you call it Pilot Boy? Yeah. That's hilarious. It was a development hell. That's hilarious. I spent over a decade of my life thinking around with that shit.

That's hilarious. Do you think you're going to do more of these podcasts, the ones that you have produced? Are you going to keep doing that? I'd like to, yeah. Yeah? I think it's not like this gig. You gonna keep doing that? I'd like to, yeah. Yeah? I think, you know, it's not like this gig.

You know what I mean? It's as joyful as this. Like, I talk to people I enjoy talking to. You know, I don't want to, like, tip my head too much because I want people to, like, listen and see for themselves

what it is. I don't like describing. It's like telling a girl how you're gonna fuck up before you do it. Just see what it feels like. a girl how you're gonna fuck up before you do it just see what it feels like you know it's but but i enjoyed it man like again who i'm talking to i hope you do it one day you gotta hear it though you you love i've heard it i've heard episodes oh that's right when we

were here i played yeah i would love to do it i would definitely do it i love what you did in yellow springs too because you were the first guy to figure it out. You were the first guy to say, you know what? I'm going to do comedy. We got to it early, man. When did you start? What was the first shows? June 6th.

The first night was the night I did the video that was on YouTube, 846, that George Floyd. That was the very first night. 70 people, maybe, in a five-acre field. Wow. I was like, as soon as I, you know, that was the very first night. 70 people maybe in a five acre field. Wow. I was like, as soon as I, you know, what was happening, so many people in live entertainment were furloughed

that I started finding out from the production world who had gotten furloughed and I'd stop picking them up. It was like, you know, and a lot of these people, I'd pay them in cash because if I did it, you know, straight down the middle, they lose their benefits and if for any reason i had to cancel the shows then they're just stranded with no benefits i couldn't do that right so it was like the the 80s and i was paying everybody on the table even though i wouldn't do anything illegal but you know uh and the night before the first show, I was like a condemned man.

I had to put a call into the governor's office. I'm not, I mean, fucking nightclub comic. I'm calling the governor. And it was a long shot. But shout out to Governor DeWine. He hit me back. And he let me do it because, you know, after that massacre in Dayton, we had done a big thing that really,

I think, really helped heal the community. And because of that, he was like, OK, I'll let you do it. But the COVID protocols were so strict and we had to learn from scratch how to do it. You know, nothing's going to be perfect. It's a pandemic. Everything you do is going to be risky. But we had to figure out how to do it as safe as possible within the within the parameters of guidelines that the government saw fit but we were able to work did you sell booze uh i don't know we had to give it away oh wow you know like you know there's a lot of stuff that we've built into the ticket the mask and all these things that you know we try to make accessible the shows are expensive to produce so i didn't make any money i lose money every night but you know here we are a year later i might be 105 shows ahead of everybody

right right because i was working you stayed active yeah we you know we we might have done like what we might have done a good 30, 40 shows here. So it's that. We found a way. And the best part, like I said, is we all got to be together. So people would fly in from L.A. and New York, and we'd work three nights a week, and some people would stay, and we could chill because eventually we got access to testing.

That was the game changer. So we'd test every day. So when you first started out there was no testing? No, it was just, well there was for the comedians. But the crowd, it's like going to the grocery store. You come at your own risk, everyone mask up. Everyone was outside. Everyone was outside, everything was outside. Everything was outside.

Everything was probably socially distanced. One of the things I learned early on is selling tickets in pairs. You know, that was a game changer because it allowed us to get more people in. And, you know, it just made everything easier. Because you imagine if there's two single seats, you can't put two strangers together in a time like this. Of course. Well, you know, it worked.

As far as the audience was concerned, not a single reported incident I've heard of someone getting sick or infected in one of these shows. We were very careful, you know. And then eventually you started testing the crowd? Right. As testing became more available in the beginning, having tests was like, oh, my God, I can't believe we got our hands on these. It was very difficult to get testing.

And the tests weren't as rapid. It would take longer. So you wouldn't have time to test those people. I mean, the staffing that you'd have to do to give a few hundred people a test that takes 30 minutes for results. Who has that kind of time? Yeah. Yeah, you can't wait 30 minutes.

Right. You know. But now, like, you know, when we play in Vegas, we have the capacity. We could test all 13,000 people and get them in at a reasonable time. Sounds crazy, but... It's possible. Yeah, now it is. Yeah.

Early on in the pandemic, there was, I think, like, you know, remember when Trump said something like, just stop testing everybody? Yeah. I'm telling you from experience,'s a terrible terrible idea it's a ridiculous thing to say yeah like i can't believe that motherfucker was in charge at a time like that who you saying that was a wild he was saying the reason the numbers are so high is because we're testing more people yeah yo my man like come on let's think this through. Well, that's just something we're looking at. Take a swig of Lysol, motherfucker, and think about what you just said. Who the fuck is this guy talking about? That's your leader?

It's so interesting that that guy's not on social media now. He tried to get back on Facebook, and they're like, no, come back in six months. It's like he was up for parole. Yeah, you know, it's a weird thing being a comedian. Because there's a thing about Trump that if the circumstances weren't so dire and the consequences so high, that would have been hilarious to watch. Yeah. Yeah. But, man, people died and the country's all fucked up now and the Capitol looks like jail.

I know. It's crazy. It does look like a green zone looks like jail. I know, it's crazy. It does look like a green zone now. Yeah, I'm from D.C. I got to tell you, that shit was particularly offensive to me. In D.C., that's the town business is government. And those people that were in that building,

so many of them are people from them neighborhoods. It feels like you fucked my city up. It's just a scary precedent. When you decide you're going to break down boundaries and you're going to rush the Capitol building and you're going to do it with no real plan and you're going to take pictures on Pelosi's desk with your feet up and take pictures holding the flag,

wearing a Buffalo helmet. Right. There's no one to negotiate with. Who should I talk to? This motherfucker with the zip ties or this bullwinkle nigga. Like, who the fuck are these people? Man, fuck these people.

You guys are fucking the country up. Changed everything. One day. One day changed everything because then people knew that that was possible. That never happened. Yeah, it didn't happen

at the Million Man March and they was ready for us. But look at this shit. And the president was the catalyst for it. Whether you want to say he's legally responsible or not, that's fine, but... He's irresponsible. He did say, go take the building back.

You got to be strong. Did he say, go take the building back? Is that what he said? He said, you got to take our country back. He said, you got to be... Let country back. He said you gotta be strong. Let me not put words in this fellow's mouth. And I'm not an anti-Trump guy. I'm not pro-anti. This shit is like theater to me. I remember when he won. You had a great speech.

You said, let's give him a chance. Right. And you know why I said that? Because he was duly elected and stormed the Capitol rub my shit on the walls Someone rub their shit on the wall. I believe a person did Is his first time in the Capitol he got excited it's kind of amazing only one person got shot You know as sad as that was it is amazing because I mean that could have been a terrible terrible terrible situation yeah and miraculously you know it could have been so much worse if there was like carnage there Jesus could you have made one shot went off in the wrong context right the whole building would be lit up yeah

there were four different five four or five different law enforcement departments in there by the end of it it's crazy you know seeing seeing your officials flee their constituents well that's crazy you know what's crazy is that was five months ago and they're still catching people oh that's not gonna stop right now no doubt they will stop they're getting people off of photographs facial recognition software videos people turning their friends in right it's it's this is this is all my army shit bro but hopefully it's a growing pain and on the other side of this people be more willing to do you know right by each other yeah we just need a legitimate leader I'll put an ad in the paper

someone who can who can inspire everybody that you actually want to do that job mm-hmm don't want to do that job. You know, if it's this hard being a comedian, I can't even imagine. Even a guy like Obama, I think about it, that shit looks really hard to do being black. It sounds trite, but it's not. That was a cultural, it was like the moon landing, seeing somebody who's not white be president united states especially with

a name like barack hussein obama my god man we we did that you know uh i'm i'm fond of what that meant culturally you could argue about policy this that or the other but but i'm you know ohio we we voted for trump twice we voted voted for Obama twice, too. It was an interesting swing state, Ohio. And normally we pick right. Whoever we pick is the president. This last go-around being the exception. Maybe the only exception.

You know, yeah, fuck politics, man. Yeah. Like, literally, that's feckless. I telling you i'm on my kindness conspiracy as long as i'm kind to people like if if we live by an ethic of kindness if we foster trust amongst each other we'll matter less what corporations and politicians say because we'll be able to trust our society's cohesiveness yeah but if you politicize these things, it's going to become increasingly difficult to come to an understanding and agreement. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think it's just, it's so difficult when people get attached to whatever political party they're in.

It's very difficult for them to disagree with that party and so easy for them to go along with it and then so easy for them to hate the people that are opposed to it, the people that are on the other party. It's such a binary thing. It's so dumb. It's also a cold thing to do in front of all of us. Yeah. Because I don't think people feel that way. No, most people don't.

No. But when we're talking in groups, that's when it gets weird. Right. Talking in tribes. Yeah yes it's getting tribal here I don't know more than I was funny I don't even really know what you political politically believe or don't believe but gives a fuck I get along with you every time I see I know you funny you're nice We laugh about shit. We learn shit from each other. You're from Boston. I'm from D.C. It's two very different types of places and types of cultures.

But this culture of comedy, this common denominator, makes me feel like we're of the same tribe. For sure. And there's trans people in my tribe, and there's white and black and Asian and all kinds of people. And all of them are committed to to this concept of levity and we all get there different and interesting and unique ways and what's wrong with this it works and we say terrible shit to each other all the fucking time everyone's fine but it's fun we look forward to it but it is a tribe it's a different kind of tribe normally i get up in the morning and i dread getting on a plane if i have to go do a work thing We look forward to it, but it is a tribe. It's a different kind of tribe.

Normally I get up in the morning, and I dread getting on a plane if I have to go do a work thing. I was excited to come here today. Not to be on a big podcast. Oh, I'm going to fuck around and hang with Joe. I'm sure I probably said four things that I wiped already. I don't even know it yet. No. I'm going to take a look at the comment section.

Yeah, that's good shit. Everything you said is dead on. Likewise. Hey, man, you got any of your cups? What is this thing you got with this buffalo on it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can't see you and not celebrate.

Now, obviously, is this some cheap shit, Joe? No, that's the shit, bro. Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey. Buffalo Tracy has been around longer than America. That's 1773, that company. Really? Yeah. Wow. Tastes like slavery.

Let's get it. Hey, fingers, you don't got a cup, do you? Right here. Oh. Pour out your water. Oh, my man. Painted out. That's good.

Okay. All right. Water who drinks that shit anymore. All right. Let's sell it to Joe Rogan. Celebrate. We don't need ice. Come on. No ice.

Thank you, Jamie. Marlon Wayans was at my house in Ohio. Salute, my brother. Cheers, man. Salute. Marlon Wayans, I got to tell you, is one of my favorite people. He's a wildly consistent dude in my life. I used to hang out in Hollywood and sometimes I'd drink too much,

but I knew where he lived. He's like one of the only people I knew where he lived, and I'd just knock on his door. He'd open it. He got some room in his basement. He just stole blankets, and then I'd sleep. Really? Because I trusted him.

Yeah, he's just a fucking cool dude, man. He's a funny guy. He's a cool dude. He's a cool dude. That's awesome. Anyway, I brought him up because he came to my shack. That's where I do my shows. It's like my little hangout. I got a little clubhouse in the corner from the crib.

We all just hang out there. Nothing nefarious. But Marlon was so incensed that I didn't have ice, that he bought me an ice machine. It was the weirdest gift. He didn't even tell me. He just sent it in the mail. Who does that?

Tell me about this club that you're opening. Comedy club? Yeah. Had a conversation once with Chris Rock. Yeah, I love Chris Rock, too. I love all comedians, but Chris and I were talking about, and this is an interesting question, I'm going to see how you feel about it.

I said, how many seats are you optimal? Like, when you look at a crowd, how many people do you want to see out there where you feel like, I'm home? Chris said, like 6,000. I forget sometimes, got a big, big star. Me, 200. That's like a sweet spot for me.

That's why I love playing the punchline, you know. But I don't even need that many. The belly room, one of my favorite rooms on earth is the belly room of the Comedy Store. That's like 70 seats soaking wet, right? Yep. I would make this club 120. This club is not for people who are trying to count the gate.

This club is for people who want to rock, really get into some shit, try some shit out. Yeah. It's like when that alternative scene in the 90s, for people at home, Joe, I'm not saying this, I know you know, but in the 90s, it was an alternative, what they called an alternative comedy scene.

This was Patton Oswalt and Janine Garofalo and Dave Cross, Bob Odenkirk, these type of people. And it became real popular, became like a scene. And I would check it out. Now, traditional club comics hated that scene. They resented it because the things that was going on there, these jokes weren't structured. It was like a lab almost. People would go there and try shit out.

What was interesting about it to me wasn't what the comedians were trying as much as it was the way the crowds would listen to them. It was one of these setups. If you went there and just did your act, no matter how funny your act is, that's not what they wanted to see. What they wanted to see was someone take a chance. And that shit was like heaven on earth.

When a crowd pushes someone, just try some stuff. You don't have to land the trick, but the beauty is in the attempt. Just try it. Whatever this thing is that you land the trick, but the beauty is in the attempt. Just try it. Whatever this thing is that you're worried, it makes you nervous or uncomfortable. And that scene made a profound impression on me, that that was possible, that you could make a crowd into that. Because comedians are addicted to the process of refinement.

You know, a guy like Seinfeld, he would never do a podcast because it's such a spontaneous, off-the-cuff endeavor. And his skill as a comedian, one of his super, super duper powers, Jerry Seinfeld, is like a well-refined comedian. He can take an abstraction and make it a refined piece. This scene didn't have any of that refinement.

Seinfeld does that, but then he also does that cars, comedians getting cars, in cars getting coffee show. Yeah. Where he's like a podcast. He's loose. I did that show. I enjoyed it, actually. We did it in D.C. What kind of car did you drive?

A French piece of shit. It like broke down. I don't think they cut that out. It was a good looking car, but it was a piece of shit. Well, he's mostly into Porsches. Most of his thing is Porsches. If he's driving those other cars, it's really more for show, I think. But it reminds me,

that show reminds me of you a little bit in the sense that it's about his passions. He loves cars. He loves comedians. He loves comedy. Yeah. And apparently he likes coffee. Jay Leno,

you ever done Jay Leno's Garage? No. I've done that. He is so much better at that show then at least the way I not that he was bad at hosting the Tonight Show but he's himself he really is himself like he doesn't have to dress up he wears like the same shit every day like a jean shirt and jean pants and it doesn't give a fuck what he looks like he's got no hair makeup on the set he just wants to talk about cars the guy's

got like hundreds of cars he's got warehouses and makeup on the set. He just wants to talk about cars. The guy's got, like, hundreds of cars. He's got warehouses filled with cars. Full-time employees all over the place, like, working on this. Bloop, bloop. All these people. He's got fabricators, people that make sheet metal, like, fixed fenders and shit and all kinds of stuff. And the fucking man loves cars. And I brought my 1965 Corvette in.

And just he and I just geeking out over lines. And Steve Strope, the guy who built my car, he came with me. And we talked about all the various aspects of the car and all the improvements, all the different things that he had done to it. And you could see Jay Leno going over it. He knows the details of the 1965, the original motor. He starts talking about all the different things. And then he drove it. He's the only one

other than me that's ever driven that car. Really? Yeah, and he takes it out. We go out to the hills and went up to Los Angeles, Crest Forest, you know? Man, he took me out

one night. You had a hot one in that Porsche you used to drive. Oh, yeah, I still got that. That was a hot one, bro. That was fun. That night was wild.

And you started doing the motherfucker. You know, we was up in them Hollywood hills. You started doing the mother fucker, you know we was up in them Hollywood Hills, you started doing them James Dean turns. I got scared. I got scared, what you doing? That car's glued to the ground though.

Oh I know, that's what you were demonstrating me. You were whipping that shit. Oh that was the night we went to the Naomi Campbell book release party. Yeah. That shit was fun though. It was wild. It wasn't that weird weird it was weird to me

well because you weren't expecting it yeah you you were just at the comedy club i ran into you yeah and was like yo i need dd let's go to this party we were so high too i was like okay let's go it was fun man it was really fun but it was it was like you know i thought it was just gonna be a regular night at the store next you know we're in an elevator that's going up the side of the hill. Oh, that mountain. Yeah, that was crazy. Weird. It's a nice house.

And there's a giant naked picture of Naomi Campbell on the side of the building. Remember that? No. Of course I do. Of course I do. It was like 40-foot tall nude. It was crazy. And then you get in there, and there's all these famous people.

This is one of my favorite parts of the night. We're sitting around, and you and I are talking. You go, man, I would not want to be famous like these people. And I look to you and go, dude, you're the most famous person here. That's hilarious. Turns out it was you, Joe. And you're like, no, am I? I go, you were the most famous person in this fucking room.

I don't have, you know, you know, I could forget about it. Yeah, you could forget about it. You know how to let it go, but it was Lenny Kravitz was there, Demi Moore, and there was all these famous people. It was wild. I was like, oh, there's that guy.

You know, again, I'm always shocked at how, like, Lenny Kravitz is a cool motherfucker. Very cool. I really dig him. The first time I met him, Sherman Helmsley, they used to play George Jefferson, introduced me to him.

Really? I did a movie with him years ago. It was me, Norm MacDonald, Sherman Helmsley was in it. Wow. And I remember I didn't know him well, but I was awestruck because I'm a Jefferson's fan. Any Norman Lear show is what I was watching and He invited me to come to this concert with him

And I didn't realize time that Lenny Kravitz mother was on the jefferson's which is how I knew him Man, I smoked a joint with George Jefferson, and we went out to see this Lenny Kravitz show it and we couldn't have been nicer Yeah, he was very normal doesn't he, he lives on a giant ranch in Brazil. He has a giant ranch in Brazil. Oh, he doesn't live there? He just goes there occasionally? Yeah, he's one of them dudes. He got a beautiful house in Paris.

I've never been, but I've heard stories. He's got, you know, spreading the Bahamas where his family is from. Oh, wow. And then he got the Brazilian jump off. So, you know, he does it big. And Lenny is a style guy. Like, everything he does is just fly.

Prince was like that, too. Everything is kind of fly. They did a tour of Lenny's house. It's a video. And he's going over all the art pieces and who designed this chair and who made all these things and showing this video of this place in Brazil. It's beautiful, man. He started making furniture, designing furniture, stuff like that. Now, you know, it's funny.

I don't have really – Kanye is like this. Kanye West is a design genius. It's not a trick. People call Kanye genius all the time. This is not just a label they're slapping on. If you ever see him in a studio session, People call Kanye jeans all the time. This is not just a label they're slapping on it. If you ever see him in a studio session, this motherfucker look like Captain Kirk.

He's running the bridge. Like he's, he knows, he's nice with it. I've been very lucky to get to see people who are great at things up close. Even being on his podcast. I feel like you didn't make podcasts up, but you kind of make podcasts up. And I know you.

It's fucking a strange neighborhood in life. You know, it's one of the joys of my life getting to know these people. And knowing and seeing them be human. You know, we struggle through these things. We bellyache about decisions. But everyone, none of these people that I know are contest winners. They all worked very hard to be great at what they do. Everyone is gifted, but these people spent time refining their gift and getting rejection and taking all those shots that you take in life, and they made something of it. I can't

begrudge them that. I always hope that none of us wipe. I hope we all of it. I can't begrudge them that. And I always hope that none of us wipe. I hope we all survive it. And I think that's why that cancel culture shit bothers me. I'm not even opposed to the ideas behind some of these cancellations. I get it. I get it. You want to do good things. Stopping harassment.

All of it. Stopping all the- Racism, harassment. Everything. This ism, that ism, this phobia, that phobia. I get it. Let's fight it. And the inclination, all of it is to make the world a better place.

That's the inclination. It gets abused and misused sometimes by the wrong people and bad actors. But at the end of the day, what they're trying to do, at least what they think they're trying to do, is eliminate bad aspects of our culture and our society. Right. So they're trying to do. Right. Because society doesn't correct itself. Right. That's what they're trying to do. Right, because society doesn't correct itself. Right. And in that sense, I appreciate it.

My kids make me very hopeful for the future. You know what I mean? A lot of people say, good people I know. I don't want to bring kids into this world. My age, no kids. Don't do that shit. If you think you're a good person, please have a kid. Put all your good ideas in that kid so that the world will be better.

I quote you all the time because of something you said to me in the parking lot of the comedy store. You said, my children didn't just increase the amount of love in my life, they increased my capacity for love. That's very true. They saved my life. I wasn't in dying straits, but man, I wouldn't be fractionally. I think when I am, I have some of the courage

that I was able to muster. It's not like I'm not scared. I'll be scared, but I just do this shit anyway. Everybody who knows me says there's like me pre-children and post-children. I'm like a different person.

I'm so much nicer. I always liked a different person. I'm so much nicer. I always liked you, Joe. I never saw you as a mean guy. You were always kind. You were always edgy. And everyone was scared of you because you know Kung Fu. But, you know,

it's not like you was in the comedy club sweep kicking niggas and shit. We was kicking it. I don't know, it's not like he was in the comedy club sweep kicking niggas and shit. He was kicking it. And I don't know, bro. Like, I just feel real grateful for the years I got to do this. Like, I don't feel. I feel grateful, too. You know, I think we're so fortunate that, you know, you look at people that are living their life.

And that famous quote that I love love most men live lives of silent desperation wow who said that and why did they say such a thing uh walden pond what is his name thoreau yeah oh was it oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that was his thoreau's quote it's a great quote and it's so true most most people are just just fucking god every day it's a struggle they don't whether it's what they're not doing what they want to do they don't feel loved they're not surrounded by interesting people they're not stimulated like every day my problem is i just have a lot of shit to get done. That's my only problem every day. But all the people are. Because a lot of the shit you do,

there's less social capital in it. This is an easy existence now. Men don't have to lift heavy things anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, you're out here hunting your own meat, sharpening your kung fu, lifting weights. Yeah. I'm not doing none of that shit.

But I realized a long time ago I have to do all those things to keep my head right. I get that. I get that. I don't know that I have a similar passion. But you know what? I find my solace in people. There's so much shit that I see. You know, I don't want to say like, I'm talking about circumstantially what they'd say normal

circumstantial people who have these incredible capacities in them it's harder now that i i got notoriety to be around the people that move me the most but it's people like that that guy that goes to the guy that goes to the job he doesn't like. I respect this guy. Oh, yeah. There's so many people I've met. That's will. That's a real willpower. People who do actual public service. Not these fake woke activists, but the woman that works at the shelter

for the abused women or helps women get out of relationships that are abusive with their wives. Or helps veterans cope with PTSD or get counseling. This guy I met that lost both his legs and was cracking up laughing with me when he was talking about it.

These people blow my fucking mind. Yeah, as they should. It's exciting. Yeah, there's a lot of exciting people out there. And just because someone's famous doesn't mean they're exciting. Oh boy, ain't that the truth. I ain't gonna the truth i ain't

gonna start naming lemons but some of these niggas is lemons lames lames it's so true there's so many of them they're so bland yeah but then i'll meet somebody who doesn't have any notoriety and they humble me because yes they're such spectacular people yeah i've been very fortunate to meet a lot of interesting people and i think doing this show has really changed the way i look at life but your kung fu has suffered joe it has a little bit that's age right that too but it's also just the lack of practice all the time i just couldn't keep getting injured that's the problem you would never fight again, would you? No, not now.

I'm 53 years old. Would you fight another 53-year-old like on some Mike Tyson shit? No, Mike Tyson is still fighting demons, man. Wow. Those demons are still there. Mike Tyson is the reason why this desk is this width. Did I tell you that? No.

This is real? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a smaller desk that I was planning on using for the new studio this is the exact same width as the studio desk in my old place the exact same one and I had a small one I'm like maybe we better if I'm a little closer to the people but then I did a podcast with Tyson I did two of them with Tyson one when he was high when he's running Tyson's ranch he had a little bit of a belly he was jolly he was just high all the time we had a wonderful conversation and then next time he came in

is when he's preparing for the Roy Jones fight oh wow jacked and he had these big ass muscles in his forearms and he just looked ready to go and he made me so nervous like he was so keyed up you could tell like he was ready to go he was ready to go and i'm like no no no fuck this small table i need to be i i need i need to not feel so nervous i need to have some distance so i was thinking if i was any closer to mike so instead of like here if i was like like this and he was that amped up it probably like affect the way i was communicating with him i'd be nervous he's an intimidating guy oh yeah i I am fascinated with him as a public figure. Well, he is so multifaceted.

There's so much going on. If you just looked at him as this brute who used to be one of the greatest knockout artists of all time, you'd miss so much. He's a scholar of boxing. And there's probably not a man alive who knows more about the all-time greats he could talk to you about like harry greb and jack johnson and the stanley stanley ketchell he talked to you about guys that like you never even heard before even the tattoos he's got oh yeah arthur ash and yeah and mao i think it's che guevara on him too? I don't think so. Does he have Che Guevara?

He definitely got Mao and Arthur Ashe. Yeah, if he has Che Guevara, I hope he lasered it off. That one's like the bad boy eyes or keep on trucking or something. He said keep on trucking. It's such a silly. Does he have Che Guevara? Yeah, I think he does on his stomach, right? Yep, yep, right there.

All right, okay. I thought I was making that up. The Arthur Ashe one, though. And then, you know, he's got one on his face. One of the only celebrities that pulled off the face tattoo. I mean, Che Guevara and Fidel Castro did take over Cuba when they were in their early 30s. When I was doing the second season of Chappelle's show.

Those motherfuckers was taking over Cuba. That is crazy. When I was doing the second season of Chappelle's show. Those motherfuckers was taking over Cuba. Running Cuba. That's the crazy thing. Negotiating with the United States and Russia. Fidel ran Cuba until he fucking died.

He did. Crazy. But you know, he's one of these guys and I know, you know, as an American especially, people always kind of frown

at Fidel Castro. But I remember like the deployment of Cuban doctors and the reason they were able to do that is because their education system was so good.

Cuban doctors are some of the most renowned doctors in the world. Aid packages that Castro sent to Africa. It wasn't like Cuba was rolling in dough.

I don't know. He's an interesting guy. And I say these things because people are going to think it was days of communism She's not even close. No one's all bad Very few people are all bad and and I'll be the first to tell you communism does not look fun to me No, it removes incentive yeah, everybody that looks at people like Bill Gates or you know

Jeff Bezos, look at these billionaires and say, they have too much. We got to eliminate billionaires. They have too much. They're the outliers. They're the weirdos that have figured out how to accumulate so much wealth that it's preposterous. But you can't take away all incentive for people to perform because if you do that, you're not going to get any innovation you're not going to get all the things you enjoy you wouldn't have iphones and sure microphones and fucking samsung tvs if people couldn't make money it's funny because in our business we make you know millions of dollars and all this shit but like famous and they still have award shows like like this is funny and i get a trophy too this is crazy it's really

fun a red carpet to take pictures on yes it's like this is so it's very strange yeah it is very you think you're ever gonna do any more acting or you just stick in a stand-up now man I got this weird idea I want to go to Africa and do some of these Nollywood movies. I've been watching them. And it's like this, I was telling Naomi about it on her podcast, but it's the same thing I'm talking about with these Cuban doctors, how people can

solve problems with so little resources. This is what these African directors are like. The movies look crazy, but it's funny how crazy they look. But it's also awe-inspiring because I can't believe this guy with no resources solved a complicated filmmaking problem with this type of ingenuity because they had to.

What if somebody had a reputable American star to apply these tricks to? Come with the funny. You just give me that look, baby. Don't you worry. It's all all gonna work out I wanna do that I wanna just see what's popping over there Africa's popping right

now do you have an idea of like a script or an outline of a story I don't know that I need one you gotta see one of these movies to know what I'm talking about but it's just like something about it makes me feel joyful when I watch it. Like someone is just, I don't know.

I just want to try some shit. I'll tell you what, Africa is taking over in the UFC right now. Are they really? Three African champions, and they're three arguably the best of all time. What countries? Do you know? Cameroon. This is the guy you were telling me about. arguably the best of all time. What countries? Do you know? Cameroon. That's Francis Ngannou.

This is the guy you were telling me about. Ngannou, yes. Yes, yes, yes. They kept trying to get him in gangs. Yes. He fled the country. Yep, yep. Found a way to train.

That was a great story. It's a crazy story. They kept catching him when he was trying to get into Morocco or from Morocco to Spain. To Spain, yeah. And they kept sending him back to the Sahara Desert Oh die That's what they did just drop you off of the desert like good luck

And he made it back seven fucking times and finally made it across to Spain They put him in jail in Spain for two months, which they do and you get over there And then finally they released him. He was homeless in France slept in a parking lot made his way to a gym and They wanted to be a boxer. And they're like, man, you should try MMA. And he was like, you know, I want to be a boxer. But they paid him 500 bucks to fight. So he's like, okay, I'll do it.

So he beat the fuck out of some people. And now he's the heavyweight champion of the world. Oh, wow. And not just the heavyweight champion of the world. The most terrifying heavyweight champion of all time. Nice guy? Nice guy. Super nice guy nice guy super nice guy super friendly just the sweetheart of a guy terrifying in the cage terrifying just

nukes people as joe that's oh oh dear oh exactly he'll get interest album on the phone interest i want you to fight somebody he's such a specimen And he just won the title beating the greatest heavyweight of all time, Stipe Miocic. He just nuked him in two rounds. What do you think of a flick like that? What does he weigh? He's 265 when he gets on the scale,

but he's about 270-something when he gets in the cage. He has to lose weight to make the heavyweight limit of 265 because the UFC has a heavyweight limit. And he's, without a doubt, the scariest heavyweight that the sport's ever seen.

Because he flatlines people. How tall is he? 6'5", 6'4", 6'5". Oh, he's a big dude. Yeah. He's huge. See, show the video of him knocking out. Oh, yeah, go to the top KO finishes.

Yeah, watch this. Go full screen. I mean, he just fucking flatlines people. It's different because you can't make any mistakes with him. Because as soon as he touches you, boom. See? Dudes just go down. As soon as he touches you, you're just like, what in the fuck just hit me?

And he can do that to everybody. Fine. Give me another one. What is a UFC ref looking for? Would you back up a little? That was where you just were. That was the Stipe fight. What is a UFC referee looking for?

Watch this one. He's clearly out. Okay, that guy, yeah, he did the right thing right there. That fight is a beat up a dead body, wouldn't it? Well, the thing is guys recover. Devastating uppercut. he's devastating with everything he does and then he goes in for this that guy's clearly sleeping yeah no one's faking sleeping octagon are they no but you know what by the time he's throwing that shot he doesn't know if that guy's gonna get up on the way down

He doesn't know if that guy's gonna get up on the way down. He's something special, man. Like, real unique. Because he's just a top of the food chain specimen of an athlete. How old is this fellow? 34. That's old for a fighter, no? No, not for a heavyweight.

Okay. For a heavyweight, it's a good age. Heavyweights mature later in life. Joe, the shit you know. If you ever wrote a book, what would it be about? Nonsense. Yes, I think I'm the same. I think I'm

the same. But every time I talk to you, I can't stump the band. Anything I can talk about, you tend to know something about. I know a little bit about a lot of stupid shit. It's all useful if you got a job like this. Yeah, if you got a job like this.

But it's all because of talking to so many people. But unfortunately, I forgot so much of it too. Because it's like my hard drive is just over spilling. It's like a garbage pail that's just garbage that's just falling out of it. There's like too much in there. Does Spotify give you time off? Can you take a break? Yeah. Would you take a break? No, I enjoy it. There's like too much in there. Does Spotify give you time off? Can you take a break?

Yeah. Would you take a break? No. I enjoy it. I know you enjoy it, but. All these podcasts that I book, it's all based on my, it's all based on my interests. Like I get a list of people that are trying to get on and I go, what did that guy write a book about?

Oh, that looks, I want to talk to that dude. And it's just entirely based on me wanting to talk to this person do they solicit you or no spotify has nothing to do with it no i'm saying that the people on the show some of them yes yeah like i called you yeah but some of them i'll call them some of them i'll watch a documentary i'll go hey can you get this guy oh that's dope yeah and then you know reach out and try to get them or some of them i'll read their book. Or someone else will recommend something to me.

It's all different. If you could cast a dinner party for a guest, who do you invite? And don't say me. I'd definitely bring Elon. He's one of my favorite people to talk to. I don't know. People I know that know him really do like him a lot. I like him a lot. He him a lot he's a sweet

dude i you know i gotta say that night when we were all just sitting around talking you know he's one of these guys who seems actually shy well he's um i don't know shy is the word but he's not he doesn't need attention no which is yeah an anomaly in our walk of life. But he's cool to talk to. He's genuinely there. He's not, like even though I'm a moron in comparison to him, when I talk to him, he'll talk to me in a normal way. He'll just communicate. I'll go, well, how do they do that? And he'll explain it.

And I'll go, what is interesting about that to you? And then we'll have these weird conversations where he'll like explain his thought process about what's intriguing about something or what what made him interested in pursuing something he doesn't mind explaining these things not at all no not at all sometimes you think a person like that would lose patience with exactly your layman intellect and exactly and he does not does not He was explaining to me that night we were hanging out how they decide when and where to do a launch from. Ah. I got to tell you, I have a public school education.

That was tedious. I was going to write a Saturday Night Live tweet. Oh, we don't explain that shit on the show. Let's get it. That becomes a problem with people that are really smart, is that some of the subjects do get tedious. Like I read in some article that Albert Einstein used to fuck a lot of bitches. Yeah, so did Richard Feynman.

Yeah, they just made me laugh, like Einstein picking up girls at a bar. I think they were professors, and girls threw themselves at them. I think it was like a celebrity thing. Yeah, he was a renowned academic. Marilyn Monroe had said she had a crush on him. And he had the crazy hair. I mean, he just looked like a character. And he had that mind.

Yeah. You know, most of us walk around in a state of complete befuddlement. We feel a certain way, but we don't really know. Right. This guy. befuddlement. We feel a certain way, but we don't really know. This guy... He was also of an age where public intellectuals were celebrated like stars.

You know, he was celebrated... I mean, if you think about his contribution to modern life... Yeah. Insane. That's a hell of an equation. Not just that, but all of his contributions. Right.

He was just constantly evaluating the very nature of the universe itself, the very nature of matter and life and energy and gravity and all these different forces. Wasn't Oppenheimer one of his students? I don't know. Is that true? I don't know. I'm making shit up now. Look, Internet people, look that shit up for yourself.

I'm guessing. Oppenheimer's quote when they detonated the nuclear bomb is one of my favorite quotes ever. What did he say? He said he quoted the Bhagavad Gita. They detonated the first nuclear weapon, and he quoted the Bhagavad Gita. He said, I am become death, destroyer of worlds. That's what he said after the first atomic bomb got detonated. There was a black guy named earl

charles who was there when it happened and he has a famous quote from that very moment he said shut the fuck up the fuck are you talking about i am become death destroyer of worlds yeah it's a wild thing to say when you just see a bomb detonate but you imagine being there when the very first nuclear bomb gets detonated and imagine it's from your mind it's a bunch of other people working on the Manhattan Project had a lot of people working on it but it was a lot of it was Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer. It was a brain sham. Brilliant. There you go. Oppenheimer and Einstein.

So right here, let's fuck the world up. Let's sit down and draw out some plans and fuck the whole world up. Let's get it. Man. Genius. Yeah. You know, Einstein looks exactly like my grandfather. Really?

Oh, yeah. Like so close, it's terrifying. Take away the hair. You know, my grandfather didn't have crazy hair like that. But with that mustache and his face, he looks so much like him, especially in that picture right there. Like he could have been my grandfather's baby. It's startling how kind his face is. Yeah, wow.

That makes a mean dude, though. Imagine being a guy who's just that much smarter than everybody else. Yep. And you're trying to explain to people. Will you shut up, bitch? a guy who's just that much smarter than everybody else? Yep. And you're trying to explain to people. Will you shut up bitch, I'm thinking about math. No, it seems like an island. Yeah.

I don't know what that, I can't imagine, honestly I can't imagine what that would be like. I do think that, I don't know, the shit that his mind conceived in his lifetime. Yeah. If he were a comedian, he'd have the angles that none of us saw. Yeah. It's that kind of thing. I mean, the thing is, Elon Musk is not Einstein in the sense that he's not creating equations that are going to shape the way

our universe is thought of and perceived. But what he is doing is creating these businesses and these articles of technology, whether it's Tesla or whether it's SpaceX, these rockets that they're designing. He's changing the potential of our future. Right. I mean, he's changed what it means to have an electric car. He made an electric car instead of a thing that's practical. He made this dope spaceship that goes zero to 60 in a little over two seconds.

Have you been in a Tesla, like a Model S? Yeah. When it accelerates? A lot of people know they drive them. know they're preposterous it's just it's a it's amazing the self-driving shit you know it's weird because i feel like we live in the future yeah and we used to watch the jetsons and all this and dick tracy yeah it's better than what they thought it would be they didn't think of the internet no the the jetsons didn't even have an iphone right i know yeah he did it captain kirk he had to go kirk out yeah we yeah man i got a walkie talkie in my pocket i can watch the news yeah all this information at my disposal you get

facetime people it's it's that yeah kirk didn't even have facetime yeah and it's just an amazing piece of technology, and then people set it up in the house in a room by themselves and twerk in front of it. What the fuck are we doing, man? What are we doing? TikToking. Yeah.

It's strange. I hope everyone's going to be okay, Joe. David, I think they are. I think they are going to be okay. I think it's going to take time, and it's going to be like most moments in history. It's not going to be smooth. It's not going to be one clear ascension to enlightenment and peace and love.

But we're going to get better. We're going to get through this rocky era that we're in right now. It'll take time, but I think we're going to get through it with the lessons of the pain and suffering that's been caused by bad decisions and the way we live right now. Well, let's minimize the pain and try to expand the upside to all this bullshit. Let's make these motherfuckers laugh, David Chappelle. Let's get them. Let's go out and get them.

Salute, my brother. I love you, Joe Rogan. I love you too, brother. Cheers. Cheers. Let's wrap this up. That's a wrap, fingers. That's a wrap.

Bring it home. Bye, wrap this up. That's a wrap, fingers. That's a wrap. Bring it home. Bye, everybody. Bye. Bye. Bye.