The Joe Rogan Experience - #1669 - Kyle Kulinski

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

Kyle Kulinski is a political activist and commentator, progressive talk radio host, and co-founder of Justice Democrats. He also hosts the show “Secular Talk” and is the co-host of "Krystal Kyle & Friends" available now at https://krystalkyleandfriends.substack.com/

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Oh, hello, Kyle. Hello, Joe Rogan. Pleasure to be here. Always good to see you, my friend. I'm really happy to be here. I had a great time last night watching your stand-up.

Oh, that was fun. That place is fun, right? Vulcan? Place is a lot of fun. I've seen your stand-up three times now, and I really think that that was the best set I've seen of yours yet. Oh, thank you. Thanks, man. We were talking about it afterwards, and we were trying to put our finger on why I think it was the best, and I'm interested to hear what your thoughts on this are. But I think you said at the beginning of the show, I am fucking high as balls right now.

That was definitely true. And it made me think that we'd probably put you in the moment a lot more. Yeah. And then makes it so that, like you said, you were exercising some things and going down some paths you wouldn't normally go down. Yeah. And I think that was one of the things that made it great because I know that whenever I'm less coached myself when I'm about to do a segment and talking about politics, it always comes off better than when I'm very rigidly going through the motions. You know what I mean? So there's something about the off-the-cuff thing, which it felt like you were very off-the-cuff, that really the room was locked into you and you were doing a great job.

Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, I think I'm working out stuff. So I have bits that are already formulated, but some of them I'm not really happy with. So I was trying to figure out different ways to do them. And that's what I was doing last night. I was just fucking around and trying to figure out new ways to talk about things. Yeah.

Comedy is an interesting art. It really is. Because the laughter is so involuntary. It's like you've got to be a magician to coax it out of people at the right time. It seems like it's nearly impossible. You've got to be a magician to coax it out of people at the right time. It seems like it's nearly impossible. It's kind of like a mass hypnosis.

That's what it's kind of like. It's like you're getting those people to think the way you think. You're bringing them into your head. Yeah. The delivery, one of the things I noticed yesterday is that I'm curious, what percentage of comedy do you think is just delivery because there were a couple people who had good material like if you write the jokes down the jokes are good but then with the delivery there was something off about it and they were either rushing through it or

there wasn't confidence behind it and it just fell flat and so it makes me feel like like Tony Hinchcliffe for example I was telling you this last night he's like he's a master at how he delivers it because it's so like confident, but also calm and deadpan. Yeah. That it just, he just lands when he talks, it lands. And then there's other comedians where they have to be at that higher level of energy in order for it to land. You know, you always used to say Sam Kinison was like one of your favorite. Yeah.

And for a little bit, he was on top of the world of comedy. It's interesting that the delivery seems to be almost the majority of the material. It's not even about the words. It's about how you say the words. It's both things. But you're right about Tony. Tony has a perfect style for his personality, too, where he gives you time to think about things, and then he hits you with the punchline.

He gives you just the right amount of pause. And it's like if you wait an extra three seconds, it's not as good. You've got to get right in there. It's weird. It's a weird art form for sure. Yeah, I feel like I learned that lesson the hard way when I was the loudmouth, annoying kid in college talking about politics and debating the teacher. You know what I mean? You lose the room instantly.

Have you always been that guy? You've always been into politics then? Yes and no. Even when you were in high school? Yes, yes and no. I've always been that guy? You've always been into politics then, even when you were in high school. Yes, yes and no. Like, I've always been that guy to some extent. But what's interesting about me, and people are always surprised when they hear this, is that I'm actually probably the most introverted person you've ever met in your life. Really? You are?

Yes. And- I don't think you're- You're definitely not the most introverted I've ever met in my life. I've met some people that can barely talk to people. You talk for a living. I do talk for a living, but the thing is I get more energy and more happiness from just being alone than I do when I'm with people. When I'm with people, it's like a drain on my energy and I need to get away and relax. But when I'm by myself,

I have endless amounts of energy. And that's, you know, according to some psychologists, that's the definition of an introvert. And so even for my show, I mean, I have two different shows, Secular Talk and Crystal Kyle and Friends, but for Secular Talk, which was, you know, the original, all I'm doing is monologuing for two and a half hours. And if you're able to monologue for two and a half hours, you actually need to be somewhat introverted because I have nobody to bounce off of. So I just got to go in my own mind and like branch off of other things I say. And so it surprises people when they hear that, but yeah, I know how to talk, but I'm very introverted. I have thoughts on that because I think that's like a special kind of muscle that you develop, a special type of endurance

you develop. Like Bill Burr is the best at that because Bill, his entire podcast for years is just him ranting. And it's an amazing way for him to create new material too, because he's always got fresh new bits. And I think it's like a farm for his material. He's always ranting about things. But he doesn't even have anybody to bounce things off of. Tim Dillon is also fucking amazing at that. And in one way, Tim's got Bill. He's got like an advantage is that he has his producer ben who sits in on every session yeah

and so he has like one guy who is right there with him who laughs at everything he says and so he has a one person audience yeah and a one person audience that he knows forever they're super comfortable with each other and he knows how fucking crazy tim is and tim's wearing sunglasses now in most of his videos for whatever reason like he's doing drugs without doing drugs and he's just ranting and then Ben is laughing and that's a special kind of it's a special thing I've never I mean I've done a couple solo podcasts they're weird it's funny because for me it feels like the opposite so when I'm talking on my own and monologuing I could just go when I have one other person I'm talking on my own and monologuing, I could just go. When I have one other person I'm talking to like us right now, that's still pretty comfortable and relatively easy. Then when I get

to three and you actually have to talk for one third of the time, I struggle with that because there are times like, I want to jump in here. I want to jump in here. I can't jump in here. But it's tough. That's also an art too, to know when you can say something and when you can't. Because if you jump in at the wrong time, you'll fucking lose people. Even if you're making a good point. Yeah. That's a dance. Like when a saga and Crystal and I were doing a podcast yesterday, we, you have to figure out each other's rhythm and then you're dancing, you know, and you got to know like when to let someone continue and you got to know when to jump in. And it's, it's a weird, weird little dance. Yeah. There's, there's a lot more to it than people would guess. So

yeah, when I do my podcast with Crystal and we're interviewing our guests, it's sometimes, it took me a while to get used to it before I could like sort of relax and know when to talk. Whereas when I'm on my own, I just go or when I'm talking to you, it's relatively smooth as well. Do you guys have headphones when you have more than one guest? Even when you have one guest like you and crystal do you have wear headphones no we don't but most of our guests are also uh not there in the studio with us but even if they're not there in the studio you should wear headphones because headphones put your voice volume at the same level as mine so when i'm talking or when you're talking if I talk over you, I hear it and it's like jarring. And it lets you know how the audience hears it.

Because if we're doing this like this and we're talking at the same time with no headphones on, that's how people talk in normal conversation. It sounds fine. It's not upsetting to you. It's not upsetting to me. But when it's all condensed into one sound at the same volume, it's really annoying to the person listening or watching. That's interesting, and I never thought of that before. Yeah, because if you're at a conversation at dinner and there's three folks talking

and you occasionally talk over each other, it's normal. But if you were all in each other's ear at the same volume, it would be like, it'd sound terrible. Yeah, and I noticed that, generally speaking, people are terrible at the whole wait until it's your turn to talk thing. Everybody just wants chaos. Everybody wants to get in over everybody else, and then nobody can hear anybody basically.

Well, I feel like when you think about late night talk shows or any of the things in traditional media that we've been exposed to that were people interviewing people, were people interviewing people, they didn't have to develop that skill. Unless you're talking about like maybe Charlie Rose or someone who did like fairly, you know, Diane Sawyer or some of the people that did like longer form, Barbara Walters, longer form interviews. But it's more rare than not. And even those were weird, right? Oh, I can't stand them. Fucking camera people there. Have you ever done those where people are moving around and shit?

And you're like, hey, stop fucking moving. You guys are super distracting I don't know how that format ever really took off because through today's eyes it just looks like an inferior product and viewing experience where you have

you know two people sitting there like the way David Letterman or Jay Leno used to do it and that's not a knock on them personally it's just the format of the show It's a contrived conversation in a three or four minute sound bite And then you know you cut to the fucking band and then you cut to the audience and see grandma like yeah It just seems so contrived and so fake and when you compare that to today with podcasts Even if I don't necessarily agree with whoever the podcaster is whether it's political or comedy or whatever

You still get something that's more raw. And just the fact that it's more raw lands more because it feels more real. And so it touches on something that's important. Yeah, it's more you. It doesn't feel unusual. Like it's a normal kind of a conversation, whereas a Tonight Show type deal where someone's at the set. set I mean all that stuff is really stolen from Steve Allen like from the 19 was it 50s. I guess I have no idea That's the most generic name. I've ever heard Steve Allen. You don't know I don't think I do I could look him up Steve Allen was the original host of The Tonight Show and then it was Jack Parr and then it was Johnny Carson

Yeah, sure pretty sure see my memory starts with Johnny Carson Yeah And I wasn't even alive when he was doing his thing, but that's the one I know. Steve Allen's like a super old school guy with a very obvious toupee, like one of them oldie kind of, you know what I mean? Old school kind of comedians. That's Steve Allen. Oh, I definitely don't know that guy.

Yeah, Steve Allen with Sammy Davis Show. Was it called the Steve Allen Show at first? Wouldn't 1961 Make that smaller? He goes, okay. The Steve Allen show from 1956 to 1960. When was he? But didn't he host The Tonight Show? Google Steve Allen, The Tonight Show.

Okay. The Steve Allen show was the first in a series of primetime spin-offs from The Tonight Show. Oh. So he had the Tonight Show. Oh, so he had the Tonight Show, all which were named after the host Jack Parr, 62 to 65, and Jay Leno, who would follow in Allen's footsteps. That's weird. But wait a minute, I'm confused. I thought Steve Allen was the host of the Tonight Show at one point in time.

Because it's saying the Steve Allen show. It says it was a spinoff. A spinoff from The Tonight Show, but I thought he was the host. It says all of which were after the host, Jack Parr and Jay. Okay. Interesting. So wasn't Bob Hope one of the originals, or is that not the same format? I think that's a totally different thing.

Okay. I don't think Bob Hope was... Let's see. I know that Joan Rivers hosted it for a little bit, but she was like a fill-in. There you go. Steve Allen, you're right. 1954, that's right. So Steve Allen was the original host. Oh, and then there was Ernie Kovacs. Look at all these different fucking hosts. I didn't know about all these people. Ernie Kovacs, he started in 56. So Steve Allen started the Tonight Show in 1954, and it went on until 1957. Then Ernie Kovacs only did it for a couple of months.

What? They're almost like guest hosts. Maybe, right? Oh, yeah, because it says just a few days. Yeah, right? No, no, no. This guy did it for six months. This Jack Lischuli did it for six months. Like if you're like, yeah, my father no. Star Skies, January 28th. This guy did it for six months. This Jack Lasculli did it for six months.

Like, if you're like, yeah, my father used to host a Tonight Show. His name was Jack Lasculli. I'd be like, shut the fuck up. Your dad didn't host shit. But meanwhile, he did, and I'm wrong. Go back to that. Al Jasbo. His name was Jasbo Collins.

If you told me that that was a real person, I'd be like, there's no one. American disc jockey and musician, it says. And then Jack Parr. Who hosted the Tonight Show. So Jack Parr did it from 57 to 62. Look at that picture. Look at that. He looks like Pee Wee Herman, who got caught jerking off in the theater.

Remember that? Remember that? I do, yeah. He was like one of the first people to get canceled. Yeah, that's right. Was he arrested for that? I do, yeah. He was like one of the first people to get cancelled. Yeah, that's right. Was he arrested for that? I believe he was. Did he go to prison? I think he went to jail. I don't think he went to prison. I think they arrested him and then released him. So here's a question. Was it like

one of those, you know how they used to have like the porn theaters? Yes. Is that where he was beaten off? Yes. Yes. Isn't that like the point of those things? That's what I thought. And I think they were trying to clean those places up. Oh. Because I think it's a gay porn theater. Okay. So it's probably rooted in homophobia.

Because I don't think they're stopping people from jerking off in regular theaters that show porn. Oh, that's an interesting theory. I never thought of that before. There was a theater right down the street from my friend Eddie's house. He used to live in West Hollywood. And it was always the hardest of hardcore porn, gay porn, that they were playing there.

And it was all black poles, white holes, that kind of shit. And that's what was on the marquee. The Boys of Summer, and you'd have all these guys wearing bikinis, hugging on each other, and you would drive by it. I would always laugh at the different titles. So here's a question. Who in today's day and age, if anybody, actually goes to those giant porn stores, those adult themed- They still exist. They still exist because I passed a bunch of them coming here. Yeah. Out here in the South they exist. A lot of them in Texas, a lot of them in Tennessee,

I think we saw a bunch. And I'm sitting there like, hold on, I thought these were the conservative states where they care about family values and all that stuff. And then you got these big giant porn stores. I found that fascinating. It is fascinating. But who goes to that? Is it like some lonely trucker who's 78 and he doesn't know that there's an internet?

Right. What do you get out of those places? They're selling DVDs. Is that what they're selling? I don't know. I've never been in one of them. Who's selling DVDs anymore? That's another good question.

I have no idea, but there's obviously some percentage of people who haven't really caught up to the times. And so, like, I looked at this survey recently, and Pornhub was, like, number one in terms of people's porn viewing habits. But then, like, five or six things in, getting, like, 3%, was porn.com. And I was like, that's definitely some old dude who's sitting there, doesn't know any porn sites. And he's like, what if I go to porn.com? Is it going to show me some big hooters? Maybe it's a really good site. Maybe we shouldn't be knocking it.

I don't know. Do you think that those big warehouses are selling like toys maybe? It's probably everything, anything you could think of with sex. BDSM stuff, leather shit. Right, leather shit. Non-stop. Yeah, probably some leather shit. Yeah.

But it's funny to me that like, they also have those uh porn star expos and there's people who follow these porn stars in a way that's like they base their identity around it like there will be porn stars who are very niche famous and they have a line of dudes who are like a thousand long who are just waiting to get their one moment oh with the porn. Imagine if you're that gal and you got to take a picture with these guys and they put their hands on you and grab you. And some of them probably have jizz in their hands on purpose, right? Just so they can mark you. It's a dark thought, but I mean, it's got to happen, right?

That's definitely not never happened. Yeah. They probably would. If I was one of them gals, I would make them spray their hands down and give them a thick towel. Like, rub your hands down. Okay, now we can take a picture. I wonder how big they really are, though, because it's, I mean, still

you feel socially like a lot of that stuff is underground, but is it really underground? It's not. Yeah, exactly. That's my point. They have those expos in LA. Right. Where they were doing it at a big, one of them big convention centers. They're big things. Yeah.

They're big deals. And people don't feel, you know, I mean, credit to them, but people don't feel weird going in there and being seen at them and being around other people who are like, hey, I'm fucking horny. You horny? Sure, I'm horny. I bet there's a lot of fanny packs in those places. Definitely a lot of fanny packs.

And this is coming from a guy who wears a fanny pack. You love them. You love those fanny packs. I do. I can't talk. Remember I wore the phone clip a few times ago When you were coming Phone clip is fanny pack adjacent It certainly is

It's kind of in the neighborhood Their fucking fanny packs are great, I don't give a shit what anybody says I wear them all the time I've never given those a fair chance I got one for you Do you want one? Yes You won't wear it, you're scared, you do? Yeah. Do you want one? Yes. No, you won't wear it.

You won't wear it. You're scared. A little bit. Would you be scared? A little bit. I mean, okay, listen. I'll give it a test drive. Come on, man.

I'll give it a test drive, Joe Biden. Joe Biden owns Come On Man now. That is true. He really does. Come on, man. Crystal was just showing me a video that he flipped out at some reporter today. Did you see this? He's at this summit with Putin, and Biden lost his shit.

He was asked a question that he didn't like. He turned around and started yelling. No. Yeah, no. He was very cranky, cranky old man status in this. Dude, I think it's from Fox News, Jamie, if you want to show Joe that. He's legitimately falling apart. And it's really sad. You know, what's really weird, though, is the media is, first of all, the left wing media completely ignoring how odd it is the way he behaves. Like the one nine-year-old girl that was sitting there with her legs crossed, like, look at her over there. Look at her. Like a 19-year-old girl with her legs crossed.

Like, what the fuck are you saying? Like, what is that? So there's – Hold on. I'm sorry. Go ahead. But then they'll, like, pretend things are happening that aren't. Like Glenn Greenwald called it out today on Twitter.

I was reading his Twitter feed. Some guy was talking about how Putin and Biden shook hands and then how Putin looked away. And then Biden's looking him in the eyes as if he's trying to say that in any way Putin is scared of Joe Biden that Joe Biden is like dominating Putin like what a bizarre like and Glenn described it perfectly like go to Glenn Greenwald's Twitter because it's it's so strange because they do this thing where these world leaders they shake hands they look at the camera and they shake hands and look at the press and so in that moment biden had forgotten to look at the at the press and he's making it seem like biden staring him down he's showing him what a real man's like it's like a bizarre fantasy like almost like a pro wrestling

thing like you know that you can't possibly believe what you're saying is true that putin who's a fucking straight up killer literally and a and a judo black belt, who's the fucking head of the Soviet Union, well, whatever, Russia. Former Soviet Union, Russia, yeah. Forever. And probably will be until he dies. Killed a gang of people. Killed a bunch of people who don't like him.

Killed a bunch of people who talk shit about him. Made journalists disappear, allegedly. Allegedly, all those things I said, allegedly. Oh, there's the handshake one. Okay. They look at each other, shaking the eye, and then Putin looks away to the press. They're making something out of that. Imagine.

Look at this. But look at this. Scroll up, please. Yeah, look at the way he's looking. Scroll. No, no. Where you had it so I could see it? Just...

Don't worry. Biden looked Putin in the eye. Putin immediately looked away. What? What? But go to Greenwald's, because the way he covered it is hilarious. The way Greenwald made fun of him. Well if you go, click show this thread.

So scroll down there. Scroll right there. Nope, back. Right there. The obsession over who squeezed whose hands hardest. Who led, I guess he meant let go. Who let go first of the grip. Whose body language shows masculine authority and whose shows submission.

It's fucking demented. A bunch of liberal professionals not allowed to speak this way except here. So true. That's exactly what it is. He said Joe Biden can barely complete a sentence. Half the time he drifts off the middle of his words he's constantly bowing his head and muttering about how he'll get in trouble if he continues nobody is fucking afraid of him stop feeding liberal hordes this warped palbum pablum that's a weird word yeah so um pablum you ever use that word jamie

pablum's a good word so it's interesting because this is why people hate the media, right? Everybody feels like they're arguing more from a narrative than they are just sort of objectively describing what's happening. And with Biden, it's particularly weird because early on in the Democratic primary, when the media was convinced it's not going to be Biden. It's going to be Pete Buttigieg or it's going to be Kamala Harris or it's going to be, you know, whoever, fill in the blank with whoever imploded and was terrible. They actually were open and honest about the fact, for example, that Joe Biden sort of sundowning and he's not all there and he can't really complete full sentences. And so they actually were the ones who brought it up in debates with him, for example, Julian Castro very famously was like, do you even know what you just said like five seconds ago? This was a big moment in the debate. And so the media would openly talk about, I don't know if Joe's all there anymore,

but the second that he got the nomination, they stopped. Nobody's allowed to say it. And if you say it, you're a right winger. Exactly. Even though, you know, I was the biggest Bernie supporter out there and I was like, here's a compilation of Joe Biden clearly having some mental issues. And so it was just incredibly dishonest. And to your point on Putin and Russia, the narrative that they're using for Biden is, he's tough, he's standing up to him. It was the exact opposite for Trump, where they were saying, oh, he's Vladimir Putin's puppet. And they're actually incorrect for both of those things. And they're actually incorrect for both of those things.

So in terms of what Trump was doing, Trump bombed Syria, who's Russia's top ally. Trump rejected this pipeline called the Nord Stream Pipeline, which would have greatly helped Russia. Trump armed Ukrainian rebels on the ground who are fighting Russia. Trump did a NATO buildup on Russia's border. Now, I don't agree with those policies, but those policies are incredibly hawkish and raise tensions with Russia. Now, in the case of Biden, Biden actually just approved the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which is a pipeline that's going to greatly help Russia because it makes it so that Russian oil and gas is going to be used in Germany now. And so that's a very peaceful move. That's not hawkish. That's not raising tensions. So he's basically giving Putin something that Putin wants, which again, I actually agree with that. I see no problem with the pipeline,

but they're framing it as if like, oh, Joe Biden, he's so weak and he's, you know, Vladimir Putin, or excuse me, Joe Biden is so strong and he's dominating Vladimir Putin. Yeah. I don't understand why they think that they can do that and that people won't be more hesitant to believe the news. Dude, you would be surprised at, unfortunately, some of this stuff lands. There is a backlash to it, but some of this stuff lands. I saw a great Pew poll the other day. When it came to Donald Trump, it was like over 70% of the time they talked about him, they would talk about his like character and leadership qualities or lack thereof.

Yeah. And so when that's how you're talking about the person, you can say whatever the fuck you want. Because what does that even mean? Let me talk about this person's character. It's subjective. Somebody could say, I think he's got great character. Somebody could say, I think he's got terrible character.

So it was always out of the realm of policy. Right. And then that same poll, it was like 60 or 65% of the time when they talked about Biden, they talked about policy. So there was this huge dichotomy in how they discussed the presidents. And obviously the ones who they liked, they'd go a little softer on. And when it came to Trump and they despised him, they would talk about. And the crazy thing, the thing that drives me crazy, Joe, is that there are a lot of ways to go after Trump.

They're actually very intelligent that I would agree with. When you stick to policy, I disagree with him on almost everything when it comes to policy. But they didn't do that. It was all about, you know, he's a bad person. Yeah, character assassination all day long, which is gross. Do you think that Biden is making actual decisions?

That's a good question. I don't think I would ever say that about any other president other than Trump. Some of the Trump stuff, I was like, I wonder like how much he like pawns off on the generals. w bush was also an idiot too you know but we all knew that dick cheney was kind of pulling the puppet strings yeah so in the case of of biden i think it's it's 50 50 i think some of the stuff he probably makes and some of the stuff he doesn't i mean he definitely he clearly is having struggles mentally and he's getting very old and i think everybody

around him knows that but a lot of the big decisions I'm sure they have to land on his desk and what did they do dirt for him during the debates with Trump when he was sharp all one debate they had to and I said this too with the Bernie debate as well I really and this is all speculation I just want everybody to know I have no facts on this I'm talking out of my ass but yeah I think he was on some sort of upper that allowed him to be sharp I feel like it had to be more than that. So you think it's some like anti psychotic or. But he was, he was in the groove.

Like he acted like a normal person. Well, when he was younger, he actually, again, I don't agree with him politically. I think he's a terrible corporatist, but he was sharp in terms of debating.

There was that debate with Paul Ryan in 2012. You remember that? He made Paul Ryan look like a little baby. Oh really? Oh yeah. The 2012 VP debate. It was amazing. You're such a politics fan. You talk about debates like some people talk about playoff games. And guess what? I watch them like that too. I got my popcorn, I got Twitter up, I'm live tweeting them, I get all excited and into it. Have you always been

like this about politics? When did you get really into politics? That's a great question. So I had to be probably high school age, maybe a little bit younger than that. I started reading Noam Chomsky. I started reading Richard Dawkins. I got really into, you know, it's interesting because I always sort of, even though I'm on the left, I always sort of had a wide variety of media stuff that I took in. And so I remember when I was younger watching Bill O'Reilly and being like fascinated that his delivery was so compelling, but the substance was fucking dumb and terrible. Arguing for war, making shitty points. But I'm like, this guy's a fucking compelling speaker. Arguing about the tide. Oh my God. Remember that? With the atheist guy? That's why he believes in God.

The tide goes in, the tide goes out. You can't explain that. Can't explain that. Sun goes up, sun goes down. Tide goes in, tide goes out. What do you think that was all about? Did he plan that? When someone does something that's that goofy, is he swinging off the...

Really? No, I do. And you hear this argument from a lot of people, this idea that there's so much complexity in the universe, but there's so much order as well in the universe that like, well, how can this come out of nothing? It's impossible for this to come out of nothing. You know, there's plenty of people who believe that. Such a weird argument.

Like why is it impossible for everything to come out of nothing? Because everything is here. You know it's here. It is. It's happened. And we know that if you follow the Big Bang Theory and you follow the, like they can literally find the signatures for the radiation that cause it. They kind of have like a map that they could piece together if you want to follow it. Like anybody that would say that there's no way.

Like, well, not only is there a way, they can show you all the steps. They can show you the transitionary fossils. They can show you single-celled organisms. They can show you how these organisms exist in these cruel and difficult environments and that they slowly adapt to different environments. It's all laid out, man. Yeah. There's a great counter-argument to that that I found really compelling, a counter-argument to the God point. If God created everything because everything's so complex and needs to have a creator, then that God who created everything

would need to be infinitely more complex than the thing that they created. So then you're just passing the buck and saying, well, now was there a super God who created the God? And then was there a super, super God who created the super God? Good point. And so you could just extrapolate that ad infinitum. Yeah, or God has always been around and it's our ideas of birth and death are related to our own biological limitations and god doesn't have those yeah yeah i mean i i don't know what your thoughts

are on this stuff but i'm just humble in the face of all of it and i always say i have no fucking idea oh yeah you know i don't know any i don't know anything show me jamie this video went around last week uh it almost seems fake. I don't think it is, just like he's saying with Bill O'Reilly. There's a representative asking if the Forest Service or land management can change the orbit of the moon so that climate change can be alleviated. The Forest Service and the BLM, you want very much to work on the issue of climate change. I was informed by the past director of NASA that they have found that the moon's orbit is changing slightly, and so is the Earth's orbit around the sun. We know there's been significant solar flare activity. And so is there anything that the National Forest Service or BLM can do to change the course of the moon's orbit or the Earth's orbit around the sun?

Obviously, that would have profound effects on our climate. He's my favorite Republican congressman. He's so dumb. Who put that up? Who is this guy? It's Forbes. He's from here. He's from Texas.

His name's Louie Gohmert. Of course he's from Texas. How dare you? He's without a doubt the most fun Republican congressperson because he's got a highlight reel that's endless of him saying shit like that. Oh, I need to see it. Oh. Please find more. Can you imagine what a giant, colossal fuck-up it would be

if you let a guy like that do an experiment where he moved the moon? We're going to move the moon a little bit. I would love to see the proposals of people that are going to take the money he's offering to move the fucking moon. Just move it a little bit. Just move it a little bit he's moving a little bit further out shoot a laser at it so this guy uh he said that hillary clinton had she been elected she would have banned christianity oh wow that would have been a bold move yeah this guy he also

thought that barack obama was going to resurrect the ottoman empire in a speech he gave on the floor and he said it speech on the floor of He said it. Speech on the floor of Congress. He said he's afraid that Obama will resurrect the Ottoman Empire. No, this guy's great. He's literally one of my favorites. How did he get elected? Is he like one of them weird districts where there's only like 14 farmers?

Very likely, yes, that's the case. I don't know how big his district is, but he's been in there for a while. He's been in there for a long time. He's a good man. He takes care of the cows. He's one of my favorites, for sure. That whole thing? Is it possible the Bureau of Land Management? That's BLM, not Black Lives Matter, by the way.

That's what he's talking about. Oh, that's what you're talking about. For the people that think BLM. I was a little confused at that. I was like, wait. Bureau of Land Management is what he's talking about. He also famously said one time, don't cast aspersions on my asparagus in the middle of a committee hearing.

He thought he was saying something else, but he said those words. Imagine the thought that the Bureau of Land Management deals with forests and shit. They deal with the wilderness. This is places where people, BLM land is land where people hunt on.

He's like, go move the moon. He didn't even know that NASA's responsible for that. But NASA can't even move the moon. You're talking about something that's literally like, what is the moon, like a sixth Earth size or something? Sixth Earth's gravity? The moon. How big is the moon?

It's smaller than that, I think. I think it's smaller than a sixth Earth size. It's not possible to move it. It's not possible to move it. Yeah, you never know. Just get the Bureau of Land Management behind it. What we're going to do is shoot trees at it. One quarter

the Earth's diameter, though, so it's just weird words to use about size. So, okay. So, like, physical mass as in weight. One quarter. Why did I think it was big? I knew it was one sixth the Earth's gravity. Either way.

Or is that Mars? A quarter is bigger than what you were saying. It makes it bigger. Yeah. No, it is bigger. But I'm saying I thought it was one-sixth Earth's gravity, but I don't think that's even correct. Is that right?

Because I think that's Mars. I'm thinking of Mars as one-sixth Earth's gravity. Well, it's 1.6. It says it's 1.6 meters per second. Earth's is 9.8 times 6. That's close? Yeah, so it is. What is Mars? Mars is like a quarter of the Earth's gravity, I think. Something along those lines.

There used to be a... Was it life on Mars? I don't mean, obviously, advanced life. There was something. One of the theories as to how we Was it life on Mars? I don't mean, obviously, advanced life. I mean, like, you know. There was something. There was something. Was it Mars?

One of the theories as to how we started to exist is some sort of meteor or whatever coming from Mars and landing here in some primordial soup. Yeah. Sparking some sort of biological organism. So that would mean we're all technically Martians, if that's true. It's called panspermia. if that's true. It's called panspermia. Yeah, it's a theory that biological material like amino acids and things like that

are carried on asteroids. They slam into Earth. It's also a theory about mushrooms because apparently mushroom spores can survive in a vacuum. Paul Stamets explained this to me. I want you to hear what Louis... No worries.

Paul Stamets explained it to me in a way that uh i will not be able to recreate but that the uh psilocybin mushrooms maybe it was dennis mckenna psilocybin mushrooms in particular are so unusual that they're not connected to any other life form on earth like in a direct way well you can say well it's just like this or it's just like that he was explaining something about it and i'm going to fuck it up and I probably already did. That's intense though. I've never heard that before and that's really, really intense. The idea is that they're aliens and that it is an alien life. And it's one of the reasons

why when you take them, you feel like you are communicating with aliens because that's how they communicate with you. That would be a complete mind fuck if that were real. It might be. I mean, so there's a lot I want to ask you about psychedelics because, you know, I was telling you before the show that the last time we spoke, I told you I'm notorious for getting way too high and feeling paranoid. And I would say that 50 or 60 percent of the times in my life that I smoked weed, I didn't do it a lot, but whatever, 20 or 30 times and at least half the time I felt really paranoid. To the point where I'd be like curled up in the fetal position on my bed, afraid that something's going to happen. And it's like, what am I fucking afraid? I'm totally fine. I don't know why I'm afraid, but I was just afraid.

Right. So, but you told me it was in one of our previous podcasts. You're like, Hey, jackass, just take a couple of hits. That's what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to smoke half a blunt to the face, like a rapper. And that's what I did. I did it like this fucking awkward, skinny teenager smoking a half a blunt to the face. So anyway, when I took two or three hits, I was like, fuck, Joe is right. This stuff is nice. That's nice. Yeah. So what I would feel is the most prominent thing that happened every time I did it is I would forget everything that happened in the day previously to that point. So whereas previously I'd have some sort of subconscious map of my whole day and where I was throughout the day, it made it so that that

was all gone. And now I was just in the moment in the here and now. The other thing it did is I describe it as heady. It made me like very analytical, but analytical in the moment where I was thinking of things I wouldn't normally think of. And other than that, it's sort of like relaxed me. And it also makes, I feel like it makes, um, touch feel different. It makes touch feel like more intense. Yeah. You know what I mean? So those were my experiences. And now we're thinking about potentially, um, psychedelics, so mushrooms and, you know, I need some, I need need some guidance I think micro dosing is the way to go up front because to be honest I'm afraid if I go deeper than that what should I expect from a micro dose if I do it well a genuine micro dose Essentially brings you one notch above sobriety and it's almost

It's almost just like just a little this just a little this is it for ik feel you Yeah, you feel nice you feel nice you feel like a little calmer a little of this, just a little of this. Is it euphoric? Yeah, you feel nice. You feel nice. You feel a little calmer, a little more connected to things. You feel like a little alleviation in anxiety. There's some work that's been done in the past. God, I can't remember the scientist's name, but McKenney used to bring him up all the time, that showed an increase in visual acuity and edge detection,

meaning when people were on low doses of psilocybin, you can detect, like you see, if two parallel lines and one deviates slightly, you would be able to tell quicker with psilocybin than you would in sobriety. Whoa. Yeah. So they did several tests on this, and they showed a marked increase in visual acuity for the people that took psilocybin. So do you think that it makes you tap into something that's just as real as normal sober world that we can't access normally? Do you think that's a potential? think that's a potential? It's hard to say, right? Because if you were talking to a neuroscientist and you described the effects of psychedelics, they would probably say something is severely perturbing your visual cortex. It's involved with all these chemicals and you're getting this distortion and you're getting this hallucination. And it feels amazing because, you know, you're

going, it seems real because it's like these compounds are affecting the actual visuals that you receive, especially when you close your eyes. You see these wild, you see like Egyptian iconography and weird, crazy stuff. But a hardcore cynic would say this is just because a chemical is perturbing your consciousness. And it's just whatever exists normally that interprets the world around you, now it's interpreting through this stuff that's not supposed to be there,

and this stuff has a wild reaction. Now if you were more, I would say open-minded, but really the word is probably like true believer. That's the better expression. Like some people go, this is a chemical gateway to enlightenment and spirituality. I'm like in the middle. Yeah. I'm like,

I don't know. I don't know what's happening, but here's my thought on it. If there was a thing that you could do, like a doorway you could go into or a pill that you could take, like imagine if, you know, angels came down from heaven and they said, listen, we have a pill that you can take anytime you want to experience

divine wisdom. And it's real. You'll experience divine wisdom. You'll be in the presence of God and pure love and all of the souls from all of the people that have ever lived will caress you with wisdom and honesty and knowledge. And then you'll come back down to normal and exist in normal life. The experience you would have is exactly the same as the experience you would have if you're on a heavy dose of psilocybin. So whether or not it's real is super subjective because you're talking about an experience that's absolutely happening but is it real well what's real is we look at real in terms of like like this coffee mug is real if i put it on a scale it will register if it's full it'll be heavier this pen is real this table's real i can move it around you're real i shake your hand i give you a hug we're real what what is but that's only like physical experiences

that are tactile and measurable here on you know conscious earth this experience that you have when you're on psychedelics is insanely vivid you are taking it in. Something is happening. Even if that something is non-material and even if that something exists only in your imagination, it still is real. Like it's a real experience. So whether or not, it's almost like you're splitting hairs, whether or not you're actually encountering wise entities from another dimension or whether or not you're just out of your fucking mind on mushrooms the same experience occurs and when you come back you do have this sense that you have been in the presence of something far wiser than you it's exposed all of the things about you that perhaps you're ashamed of or maybe you're lying to yourself about

or shielding yourself from or maybe you're too hard on yourself and it wants to embrace you with love maybe it allows you to look at some of the anxieties maybe you're carrying around and say these are unnecessary like and maybe it allows you to look at the impact that the world, the human beings are having on the world. That's one thing that comes up over and over again, particularly on psilocybin, is that people have this sense that humans are destroying the world. It's almost like you get these visual images of pollution and strain on the Earth's ecosphere and strain on all the ecological environments whether it's the ocean or the jungle and you people these

wild visions of the horrible things the earth is doing yeah you know it's interesting to me because you talk to some people and talk to a lot of people and they're like this just flat-out changed my life completely like I used to feel like this now I feel like this I used to feel like this. Now I feel like this. I used to have this outlook on life. My outlook has totally changed. You know, it helped me shed

some anxiety or depression or whatever it might be. There's a lot of people in that camp. Um, and then there are people who've had like bad trips on various psychedelics. And so I wonder what it doesn't really just come down to the comfort level of the setting that you're taking it in that would determine whether or not you have a bad trip or whether or not you have like a profound life-changing experience? I think there's a lot of variables. I think set and setting is something that people always emphasize because I think it is important. Set and setting and going into something with an intention. something with an intention, like maybe going into something with an intention of like maybe you're over-anxious or maybe you're dealing with like a heavy-duty life decision. You're trying to figure out what's the correct path, which way to go. You're at a crossroads. And so going into it

with an intent and going into it and experiencing it in the right set and setting can have a profound effect. But I think another part of what affects people when it comes to bad trips is the ego and whether or not you choose to try to control it. You know, it's kind of the same thing with weed, you know, but weed is a much more mild example of it. Like when you get too high and you're like, oh, my God, I'm so high, and then you start freaking out. Like if you can stop yourself from freaking out, you can control your anxiety like during those experiences especially if you have

a lot of a lot of experience doing it like you've gotten that high a bunch of times you can like been here before know what to do just relax you're going to be fine but those mushroom experiences and dmt in particular they're so bananas that if you try to control them, you're fucked. You cannot control them. You can't control. I've seen people freak out on psychedelics because they were trying to, their ego was trying to control the situation. They're trying to tap out of that mindset that they're in at the moment. I mean, like I think I'm generally a happy person, but I guess there is a little bit of a fear that if I go too deep on any of these psychedelic substances, that I'm going to dig something up that perhaps is like really buried deep down that I don't even know that I'm hiding. So let me just give you a random example here. I, um, there was one time I had a dream and every, like the dream was, uh, you know, I don't want to get gross or anything, but it was a particular kind of dream.

And, yes. Sex? Yes. Okay. So, at some point in it, the person who I was with turned into the scariest demon I'd ever seen in my life. Oh. Right in front of me, just whatever the scariest face of a demon you can imagine is, like that. They change to that.

And I remember being so scared that I woke up in a cold sweat, and I was scared for like an hour in the conscious world. And I kept thinking to myself, how the fuck was that buried in there? Like, what is that? I didn't know that was somewhere in my mind. Like, I had no idea where that came from. i normally don't have scary dreams i normally don't have sex dreams i don't have anything like that right so i guess the thing i'm afraid of with the psychedelic substances is like am i going to get the equivalent of that bad dream if i uncover if i go too deep and i uncover something that actually is bothering me and do i even want to do that

because if i view myself as generally happy which i do then then you can see where my drug preferences now come from. I like uppers. I like downers. I like to tweak my mood a little bit. But to just go into a different dimension is like a really scary thought. Well, I'm not a dream analyst. But if I was, I would analyze that and say you're probably worried about getting really close to someone who turns out to be a fucking nightmare that you may have some like either some memories or some experiences with people in the

past where you know like sometimes in a relationship a person presents themselves as one thing and then the relationship gets intense and hot and heavy and move in together and then all of a sudden you're like oh my god i live with a psycho and you didn't know right that's that's happened to a friend of mine he had a really hard time getting her out of the house she didn't want to leave whoa yeah it's crazy like they they got they got too quick they went too fast yeah next thing you know you're living with a psychopath. And you're like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. And I think he wound up moving out of his own house. Yeah, it's a crazy story. But anyway, more people have had experiences

where you think this relationship's gonna go one way, and then as time goes, like how many people, you know, like that said old Billy Joel song, the stranger, you know, it's like kind of based on that, like that you get close to people. And as you get close to them, you've, you know, they take off the mask and you find out what they're like. So you like, you're a busy guy. You're also a very ambitious person and you're very involved in your work.

And I think most people that have a very involved career and they're, they have a lot going on. They're terrified of some massive distractions, some massive monkey bar that gets, or monkey wrench rather that gets thrown into the gears and fucks up their life. And it happens to people. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm a, believe it or not, I'm actually not that ambitious. I'm very, I'm very orderly and structured and obsessive. So it manifests into something that looks like ambition, but it's actually not ambition. Well, you're disciplined and you work a lot.

Yes. Very disciplined, work a lot. That is very true. Yeah. A bad relationship with someone who's completely crazy could fuck that up. And you could, listen, people have done that before. You get involved with someone, and then all of a sudden, they're stealing money for you and credit card fraud. People are crazy. And you don't know. Sometimes you don't know until you might be with someone for six months. And you go, hey, how's it going with Shirley?

Oh, she's great. Five months later, dude, let me fucking tell you. I had no idea. First of all, she was doing meth the entire time I was with her. Her sister just got out of jail. Next thing you know, her sister's living with me. Shit's missing in my fucking house. And then you hear these crazy stories, and people are worried.

They're worried about getting intimate with someone who turns out to not be what they're presenting. And it's funny because, you know, at the time I had that dream, I was single and had been single for a very long time. Now I'm not, and I'm the happiest I've ever been. So, you know, it's weird because that dream came at a time when there was seemingly nothing that could, because I wasn't, not only was I not with anybody, I wasn't even looking for anybody. And so for that dream to hit me at that time,

that gets back to the point about psychedelics, which is I'm afraid there might be something there if I go too deep that I'm going to uncover. And then I don't know, is there any putting that genie back in the bottle if I go down that path? You know what I mean? Which is why a microdose, I think is a good idea. You start with a microdose, see how you feel, dip your toe in the water and then take it from there. Dude, I had a dream once that Godzilla was chasing me on a skateboard. I don't think you need to worry. I don't think I'm really worried.

I'm not really skateboarding and I'm not really worried about Godzilla. I think they're just dreams. Yeah. Sometimes I think that random dream theory actually might be the one I believe the most because there's chaos in all these dreams. You know, anything could happen. And especially since you were single at the time. Mm-hmm, yeah. When you're single, you're like looking, right?

And when you're looking, you're like, God, I hope I don't meet a psycho. Well, I wasn't looking because I'm, like you were saying, I'm sort of obsessive about my work and that's all I really cared about. And maybe you were worried that one day they would find you and you would be so busy with your work that you wouldn't be paying attention to all the signs and then they would

getcha! Gotcha, Kyle! I can still see that demon face to this day. Oh my god. You know the, um, what was it in? Was it in The Exorcist? That quick thing that flashes on the screen, the scary face in The Exorcist? Jamie, see if you could pull that up. Type in, like the scary face and the exorcist. See if Jamie,

see if you could pull that up, type in like scary face in the exorcist. There's like a 0.1 second in the movie where they put this demon face on the screen at the appropriate time. And then, Oh yeah. Yeah. It's like that,

but wait, it's not just that it was more than that. It was like that face. And then with, um, the, the like pins from that hell razor guy is like hell guy. Is that a thing? Pinhead. It was like that

with the Exorcist demon and then make it red and somehow even more scary. Yes. It was like that with pinhead stuff and then red as well. I forget about that. Mid-fucking. Mid-fucking.

It says the Exorcist 10. Oh, is that the 10th year anniversary? Wow. That was, back in the day, man, when that movie came out, that was the craziest fucking movie of all time. When she came downstairs and pissed all over the carpet and told the astronaut you're gonna die up there.

Do you remember that part? Yes, yes. That movie was super creepy. They found a way to make it a science in terms of how to make you feel certain emotions. Yeah. And if you go back and watch that movie, it's like, it's so interesting how movies were so different back then. They were different in their pacing. They trusted your attention span. They trusted that you didn't have a cell phone on you. So you're just going to sit there and watch the film. What are you doing,my oh just it was a quick shot of the demon right

quick shot of that thing isn't that thing scary looking yeah kind of scary i'll fuck that dude i've never been a big uh horror movie guy i'm not really yeah i love them yeah no i don't like uh i'm not a big fan of that in the same way that I say I'm not a big fan of putting pain with my pleasure. Or like getting really spicy food. It's like, what if I made this thing I'm eating shittier? You don't like spicy food? It can't be very spicy. I've learned I have a little more tolerance than I thought I did.

I thought I was a hardcore mild only person. But no, I could get a little bit of spice in there. A hardcore mild only person. I thought I was. I mean, look at me. Like potatoes. I'm white as fuck, right? You're a meatloaf kind of guy.

No, I'm not a meatloaf guy. I'm like a eat fast food and die young kind of guy, unfortunately. Reckless. Yeah, pretty reckless. I love spicy food. I love Thai food. Oh, Thai food when it's not too spicy, I love too. But it can't be too spicy.

I like it lit up. Woo! I like it where I start crying and sweating like a pig. Doesn't that punish you later, though? No. Doesn't fuck your stomach up? No. Really? No, it where I start crying and sweating like a pig. Doesn't that punish you later, though? No. Doesn't fuck your stomach up? No. Really?

No, it doesn't bother me at all. That's interesting. I think it's just a genetic thing. I think that's why- Super tasters. Yeah, this is why I think it's a genetic thing, because out of my two daughters that are young, one of them, which is really odd, really likes spicy food. Young kids don't generally like spicy food. That's very true. true one of them loves it she she'll take habanero sauce

she'll eat jalapenos she she goes hard and then the other one I want to have nothing to do with that shit she's like oh it's so spicy and I go let me try it I'm like this isn't spicy at all I think it's a taste bud thing yeah it's because those kids have like my wife's genetics in some regard. Like one of them has allergies like my wife has. The other one's not allergic to shit. So it's interesting how it works like that. It is interesting. And when you see kids, it becomes very clear that there's a lot to nature.

Oh, yeah. So it's not just like, you know, nurture. You're molded by your environment. And, you know, everybody's a blank slate. That's all horseshit. Blank slate idea is total bullshit. Horseshit, yeah. Because you could see their personalities from before anybody has any influence on them. Yeah.

Yeah. You're not, there's no way you're a blank slate. But there is influence by your environment. Sure. It's both things. Yes, definitely both things, for sure. But some kids come out of the box, and some animals come out of the box different. Like, you'll have dogs, and they'll have distinctly different personalities. Yes.

Like, right out of the box. Like, my dog, Marshall, like, right out when he was a puppy when we first got him, had this very distinct personality. And he's always had, and like, other Goldens and other dogs are very, like, my dog is a person. He's like a weird little person locked in a dog. It's so strange how clued in he is. He's so there with you.

Yeah, it's funny because I had that same thought with my friend's dog one time because it just felt like there was almost a weird connection. He was thinking like a human and then I remember the day after that,

I'm sitting in the living room and the dog brings me a fucking dead, decapitated raccoon and puts it at my foot feet like and I'm like I was a fucking idiot for thinking you're like a human what are you doing like go away like a human that has some old-school wolf traits yes what's so bizarre is that all dogs came from wolves that is super weird isn't it they didn't really know that you know they used to think that they came from wild canids and all sorts of different things. And they thought there was like different species of wild wolves.

But then the more study they did on the genome, the more they realized like, oh, this shit comes down to wolves. And what about cats? Do you know anything about cats? Like where do they come from? Domesticated cats. What were they originally? That's a good question. Yeah, I never thought of it until right this second, but I am curious.

That's a good question. Hmm. I wonder. And it's interesting how generally cats have a very different disposition than dogs. Like, your average dog is much more, you know, outgoing and jovial, and your average cat is much more independent and pessimistic. Want to see a tiger kill a crocodile? Fuck yeah.

I didn't know a tiger could kill a crocodile, but they can. Let's see. Somebody sent me a video of a tiger fucking up a crocodile. This is what I do in my spare time. This is so silly. But cats are fucking spooky, man. We were talking earlier about the cat that was in front of my house. They're spooky.

Yeah, a jaguar you said you thought you saw, right? Do they have them in this area? Most likely what it is. Oh, yeah, it's similar. Yeah, that's it. That is actually the video. It's a shitty copy of it, but look at that. It's a fucking cat taking out a big ass crocodile. Tigers are just

on a complete different level than everything else. They're super predators. Look at that. Jesus Christ. So they kill crocodiles all the time, I guess. Jesus Christ. Fucking tigers are so spooky. And they're all over the place in Texas, by the way. They get out. One of them got out in Houston. Tigers?

Wandering around a residential neighborhood. Yeah. So I think that this cat was probably someone's pet and it got out because it is an absolute dark cat. It was looking at a jaguar. Well, I don't know if it's a jaguar. There's a thing called a

look up No, Black Panther. What you said was a Black Panther you saw? Well, it's a black cat. Okay. It's hard to tell because it's security camera footage and it's late at night, so it's night vision. But it was about... We estimated because the guy was walking his dog. Yeah, it could have been that, man, for sure.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That absolutely could be it. Whoa. That right there, 100%. I never even knew this fucking thing existed. I've never seen one of these in my life. That is exactly what it looked like. So that absolutely could be it. Whoa. That right there, 100%. I never even knew this fucking thing existed. I've never seen one of these in my life. That is exactly what it looked like.

So that's what it is, a Jaguarundi. Whoa. So there apparently are some of those in Texas. They have been spotted in Texas before. And so that's what was on my security camera. That's exactly what it looks like. What a wild looking thing. So it's a small version of, you know, like a, a big cat. Wow. It's, it's smaller than my dog who's about 80 pounds.

So if I took a guess, I would say it was like, you know, somewhere North of 60 pounds. You were the one who made the point. I think that like, if your house cat was big enough, that fucker would eat you. 100%. Really? 100%. Wow. Yeah, house cats don't give a fuck about you. That's why you can't. I had a bit. You can have a dog and a gerbil, and you teach the dog.

You go, hey, man, the gerbil's my friend. And the dog goes, looks like a rat. That's a fucking rat, dude. That's a rat. You're like, no, no, no. No, no, no. It's not a rat. It's my friend. And the dog's like, okay. This's a rat. You're like, no, no, no. No, no, no. It's not a rat. It's my friend.

And the dog's like, okay. This fucking asshole's letting rats in the house. All right, fine. You can't have that with a cat. There's no agreement. The cat would just pow, just jump on it instantaneously. If you have a fucking gerbil on the floor with a cat, and this is the first time they met, there's 99,999 times the fucking cat is going to go right for that thing.

That's how they're wired. Unless you have some really beaten down by the system cat, like some really fat ragdoll cat with no instincts left, then it probably won't do it. But most cats, like a regular tiger cat, a how house cat, they're going to fuck that gerbil up. Dude, people have domesticated bobcats. You know that? Wow.

Yeah, and those things are not easy to fucking domesticate. Whitney Cummings just sent me a video of one in her yard. It's a fat boy, too. Really? A big-ass fucking bobcat, yeah. She won't care. I'll send it to you guys. I'll show it.

Yeah, this was in her yard, and Whitney always has like 80 fucking, look at that thing. Wow. Whitney always has like 80 dogs. She's always got dogs. Constantly. There's this thing I saw on YouTube of this guy in Russia who domesticated one of the big cats. I forget which kind of big cat it was, though. But it was like, was it a mountain?

It may have been a mountain. No, not a mountain lion. I don't think you could domesticate those ever under any circumstances um mountain lions you can domesticate a little bit some people have gotten them where they've um they've gotten them to the point where you could kind of feed them and pet them so this is a question like what is domestication like people say you can't domesticate a wolf you definitely can't domesticate a wolf like you can domesticate a dog but you can get one to hang around with you if you feed them but the wolf is the boss like you say right is that a domesticated wolf like

so you're kind of splitting hairs yeah it's not domesticated like the way you know a fucking an actual dog is but it's more calm than a wolf you'd meet on the mountain because it has a relationship with you. Yeah. That is an interesting question. Where's the line? What does domesticated mean? Yeah.

It's calm enough so it doesn't kill you. Yeah. But if they're the boss, I would say that's not domesticated. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like you have to be the boss. I had a friend who had three of those things and it was weird.

Three what? Three wolves. He had like wolf hybrids. They were like seven. Oh, the wolf dogs. I had a friend who had three of those things and it was weird three wolves he had like wolf hybrids they were like seven ace timber wolf and they were big ass wolf dogs and they didn't listen to him at all it was a joke he fed them and they were his roommates

and they didn't kill him but they could and you'd go over to the house and you'd howl and they'd howl with could and you'd go over the house you howl and they'd howl with you Oh, you go whoa My god, by the way, I would not go to that house Sketchy they got out once and killed his neighbor sheep like a bunch of them, and I think he learned about it Oh my god. Did you get that video? There's a video that I sent you from

Whitney's house. Yeah, she's got a fucking bobcat wandering around her backyard. And it's a pretty big one, too. They get pretty big. It's like, I mean, look at this thing. Look at that fucking thing, just wandering around. Wow. And you say those things are, like, freakishly strong, too, right? What does this have to do with anything?

I have no idea why it started out. Why did it start? Yeah, oh, those kind of cats? Predator cats? Oh, they're crazy strong. They're, you know, that's how they make a living. They're all, they're just muscle, pure muscle, right? Well, do you ever see that video of the house cat that he falls from a second

floor window and he's in a house that's on fire. He falls from the second floor window, just lands on the ground and runs away. I've never seen that, but that's exactly what cats do, right? They always land on their fucking feet. How high can you really put it for them to be okay? You know what I mean? Like what's the limit before it's like that thing's going to die? Well, squirrels, they can fall from as high as like 80, 90 feet. Squirrels apparently, as I found this out from the Meat Eater podcast podcast he had a squirrel

scientist on and squirrel scientist was saying that squirrels a female squirrel when she is in season uh she's an estrus she's only an estrus for like six hours so it's a fucking just a wild but it's a wild brawl too because all the males are competing for her attention. So when you see squirrels chasing each other around trees, screaming and shit, that's probably a female in heat. And a lot of them, like, they'll be in the middle of breeding, and another squirrel will grab them and throw them off the tree. So they go flying, like, fucking 60 feet to the ground. That's fucking crazy. And they bounce, and they run back up the tree and try to get back at it again. So I want to ask you an embarrassing question.

This is embarrassing for me, not you. You just brought up estrus. So that's when they're in heat, right? Yes. I was under the impression that when any animal is in heat, that if you put your hands up to that area, it's hot, it's warm. Well, I mean, blood flow increases to the area, so it would be warmer, but I don't think it would be like a fire. No, I'm not saying it's like a fire.

You can cook a marshmallow over a cat pussy. Cat pussy marshmallow. I always have this conversation with somebody, and I brought that up, and we looked it up. It's not true. It's not? No, so when you say it's in heat, I don't know why they call it heat, but there's no actual heat that comes from it. That is, well, I guess because it's heated up. But when you have extra blood flow to an area, doesn't that area get warmer?

I don't know, man. I thought exactly what you're saying right now. I don't know the mechanism of why it got warmer, but I thought they fucking call it in heat, so of course it's going to be warmer. I think it's just heating up. You know, like, oh, getting ready to go at it. I think like if you put a tourniquet on. Yeah, estrus is the technical

term, like you said. Yes. Yeah. I think if you put a tourniquet on, well, really it's like, how would it get warmer? It means more blood. Why would it be warmer? It'd just be more, you know, just more swollen. What's really crazy is monkeys. Like, some monkeys, their buttholes

flare up and they give crazy colors when they're in estrus. Do you know that? I didn't know that. So wait, do they want to fuck more in the ass when they're in estrus? No, no, no. It's not an ass thing. It's like a signaling thing.

Oh, like a peacock doing the... Yeah. Yeah. But it's the females. The females when they're in... I think it's the females. When the females are in estrus, there's bright colors show up. And that alerts the males that it's go time.

Joe, I want to ask to see that, but I don't want to be labeled horny for monkeys. I don't think you would be. I'll do the request. How would you say that? How would you say that? Female monkeys in estrus, strange colors. I don't know. I remember seeing it online.

I think they're like, it's certain monkeys. I forget which kind of monkeys, but it's like blue and crazy looking. It gets really wild. That shit is weird, man. Yeah, like there it goes. What?

Yeah. Why are monkey butts so colorful? How did I never know this? Look at that one right there. It looks like an ice cream cone. I never heard of this before. This is ridiculous. Yeah, so there's a thing that happens to them in estrus where they really, it accentuates their

monkey butt colors. Whoa. Yeah. That looks like almost like delicious sherbet. It does. You ever had sherbet before? It does, yes. Click on that.

Click on the article, Popular Science. Why are monkey butts so colorful? Plus the best colored monkey butts on the article, Popular Science, Why Are Monkey Butts So Colorful? Plus the best colored monkey butts on the internet. If you're anything like me, you've always wondered why some monkeys have bright blue skin. The answer to the question, photons whiz, think photon drunk, photons enter the skin. Okay, this is like explaining what's happening. But does it explain why and when they're happening? It is during estrus, right?

It says right there, only the blue light makes it out. Baboon's butt tissue is arranged somewhat like the illustration above, so that blue photons are reflected and all of the other photons, like the red ones, are absorbed. Only the blue light makes it out and gets into our eyes. This is why we see blue monkey butts. But go, just Google monkey butts estrus. See if that works. But est, oh, monkey estrus. Okay, so that

is it. But there's no article explaining when it takes place. The primates, monkeys, what happens during estrus? Bottom. It's the bottom one there. It's weird that humans never had a mating season. Isn't that weird?

Because we're gross. We just want to fuck all the time. You know why? One of the reasons why? Because we're soft and we have to fuck all the time because we have to make more babies because we die so easy. Because if deers did that all the time because we have to make more babies because we die so easy. Because if deers did that all the time, they would be everywhere. Deer. Excuse me.

No plural. Like if deer did that, there's so many deer already. If you drive around here, you'll see deer all over the place. If deer fucked like people, it'd be a real problem. So nature's like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho! Once a year. Once a year. You have a season.

And how long does it last? You get it over with. Is it like a month? The rut for elk is generally speaking in the neighborhood of a month, but they sometimes have a second rut. Sometimes they'll have a second estrus. It depends on the place. Sometimes I hunt in California and the rut is in October.

But then if you go to Colorado, the rut's in September. Generally, it's in September. But California is obviously so much warmer. That's right. Sometimes it's a little delayed. Yeah. But, you know, if you talk to people about this, some people say they're hornier during certain parts of the year. They are definitely hornier in the rut and they fight.

And that's also when the antlers. No, I'm saying people say that too about themselves. Oh, about themselves people oh it's probably summertime when the people are wearing less clothes yeah so isn't that some i and i actually looked this up one night i was curious i didn't find an answer but like doesn't that lead you to believe that maybe at some point in the past we did have a mating season humans did have a mating season definitely no because monkeys don't have a mating season so are there any like monkeys, baboons, anything? Apes, anything that's somewhat related to us that maybe has one?

Maybe, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. I think primates just fuck. I think mating seasons are related to like cervids and maybe like birds and stuff like that. But I don't even know about birds. Like birds have migratory seasons, but do they have mating seasons?

I'm not sure either. Fish do. Fish do. Yeah. They spawn. Yep. They spawn at certain times of the year. I know that the size of the balls of a gorilla are really small because they can have sex with whoever they want.

Well, you know the size of the balls of primates is directly related to how promiscuous the females are. It's the females dictate. So the balls of the chimps are enormous because chimp girls

are naughty. Yes. Chimp girls are very naughty. Yes. It gets weird. Don't chimps also like fucking have the kids involved in sex

and whatnot? Bonobos. Bonobos do. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's right. We have Chris Ryan on our podcast too on Crystal Kyle and Friends and we But no bows too. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's right. We have Chris Ryan on our podcast too.

I'm not Chris. I'm with friends. Yeah. And we got into all of that shit. Yeah. He's into all that shit. Oh, he loves it. Yeah.

We read, it's funny though, cause we asked him some questions about sex in relation to humans and he was like, that's above my period. I don't know the answer to that one. It was kind of funny cause we just assumed he was an expert on like everything involving sex. No, he's, but he's an expert in a lot of things. But his main specialty is he believes that in earlier tribal societies, before we understood lines of paternity, that human beings engaged in polyamorous relationships. Yes.

And that there wasn't possession. And then as soon as a male recognized that's my kid, then it became a problem. And then they wanted, you know, this is my woman, that's my baby. But before, people just mated with each other and bred with each other. And it also is a way that they bonded together. And he cites some pretty interesting statistics and some pretty interesting facts about human beings in general, like fighter pilots.

Like a lot of fighter pilots would wife swap, and they think that one of the reasons why they did that was not just they were bored or they were kinky, but there was this real recognition that perhaps they could die. And they loved their wife, and they wanted someone to love her the way they love her. And the way to do that and to ensure that was to have these sort of open relationships. So he also says it's tied to like agriculture, I believe, and property rights as well. This notion of people being able to own property as opposed to back in the hunter-gatherer days, everything was sort of communal.

They would share everything in the same way that they share mates. And so yeah, I mean it's an interesting- that's probably the root of where we're fucked up you know i don't know because i don't know to what extent how we are now is nature driven versus nurture driven specifically in the realm of sex you know what i mean like it's possible that modern society functions the way it does when it comes to sex and marriage because it's really just all social convention and these bullshit rules we made up and it's tied to like christianity and property rights and all that but it's also possible that uh you know maybe there were people even when they were having sex with other people's wives and whatnot maybe there were people in those tribes who were like no i sort of want one person and i

want that one to be my own and so i don't know i don't know i feel like the funny thing is i feel like human beings have both instincts and so it's really like almost like pick which one wins out which one is more powerful which one do you feel like is the correct one for you yeah well the the even the idea of like what is nature if you look at cities they must be natural because they're everywhere. It's not like it's super rare. It's not like you go to one place and all the humans have gathered up into this one spot and started pouring concrete. No, that shit's everywhere. So it's natural. It's just as natural as a beehive because it's super common. The way human beings decide to congregate and build communities and then eventually make some fucking crazy mess of structures and highways

and roads. That is the way we do it. It's natural. That's why it's a tough conversation because, you know, I remember I brought that a similar point up in class one time, you know, long time ago. And the response from the professor was like, I mean, by that logic, a cell phone is natural. Yeah. Yeah. Because it naturally, so everything is natural because it has naturally come about, even though it took a lot of time. Marshall McLuhan had a great way to describe it. He said, human beings are the sex organs of the machine world. That's heavy.

I don't want the AI to overtake us, Joe. They're going to. I don't want the robots to overtake us. I think that's why Elon Musk is trying to incorporate us with AI. I think he wants us to be symbiotic instead of being dominated. It's the only way out. The only way out is in. I have to admit, I've never thought too much about this stuff,

but my instinct is always, especially when it comes to people's jobs and people's well-being, it's like everybody pump our fucking brakes and let's have some regulation around how much these robots and these machines can take over i mean isn't like truck driving the number one job in the united states of america and now we're getting to the point where they could just have a fucking robot do it and so we're gonna i mean we're gonna be at the point eventually we're like 70 or 80 percent of the economy it could it could just be overtaken by ai and overtaken by robots and we there's no way we can do that and have it go smoothly unless we do the thing that stephen hawking said which is you have to do a radical redistribution of of wealth because you can't have 80 of the population

with fucking nothing and then the robots doing all the work and giving all the money to the top one percent that's what Hawking said? Yeah, Hawking said before he passed away, he said something along the lines of, we could either have a utopia or a dystopia in the future. It all depends on what we do with this technology. So if we take the technology and harness it for the well-being of everybody, so in other words, if you have robots assigned to people and they do your work for you and then you get the benefits of the robots work and you have a relatively equal distribution, does not be fully equal. We're not talking anything crazy here, but relatively equal distribution. That'll make it so we avert a worst case scenario. of wealth and have good rules and laws along with the technology coming along, then you're

going to have, I mean, we already have worse income and wealth inequality than the fucking Gilded Age right now, and it's only going to get worse. It's only going to, I mean, right now, what is it, 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined? That's fucking crazy. And most of it comes from just moving money around, hedge funds. That's right. Yeah, the idea that like, oh, everything's a meritocracy and the harder you work the further you go

That's just factually not true I mean look at fucking Paris Hilton look how much money she has like the list goes on and on and and by the way I think most people Believe in meritocracy to one extent or another like they want it to be that okay Everybody starts at the zero yard line and we're running a hundred yard dash and wherever you end up you end up It's all about the effort you put in I think people want it to be that, okay, everybody starts at the zero-yard line and we're running a hundred-yard dash, and wherever you end up, you end up, it's all about the effort you put in. I think people want it to be like that, but it's not like that right now, and I think people are lying to themselves when they say it is. I mean, look at some of these people, fucking Bill Gates. Like, this guy is the guy who's controlling, like, basically world healthcare. He's the one who gets to dictate shit about vaccines. Why? Because he's fucking rich and he made it off computers? Yeah. Fuck out of here. Yeah, it is odd. I wonder if ultimately, I mean, we're really attached to the idea of competition. We're really attached to it, you know, because it's what propels the genome, right right it's what propels human beings in terms of like their ability to secure a successful mate or to secure a great income in their job or in their ability to

transcend the current state of their existence in terms of like their financial situation or where they live and you can you could actually work hard and you can actually get a better existence so we're really attached to this idea and it's also it's the way we separate from the pack yes as we evolve and we are clearly evolving something's going on and I think a real steps of evolution are going to come in the form of some sort of embracing of technology some sort of an integration with technology whether it's a neural link type deal or something along those lines but we're so rigidly connected to the idea of competition like that is life but isn't life a lot of things

But the competition thing seems and this is coming from a person who's very competitive and a bit Competition my whole life I'm not knocking Competitive people because I think that's what a lot of people do a lot of the knock on Competition and a lot of the knock on meritocracy comes from lazy people and that's a real problem Because their knock on competition is that they suck at it. Right, yes. So because they suck at it,

they want to knock it down. I'm trying to look at it objectively and say that I think that it's a core component of who we are and what we are. I mean, that's why the deer have the antlers and they smash into each other during the rut. They're trying to have competition and to win

because they want their genes to pass on. I mean, we could see the archetype. We could see that the patterns exist all throughout nature with fucking beetles and squirrels throwing each other out of trees. We know that these patterns exist. I wonder if human beings are going to get to a point one day where all breeding is done through genetic engineering. where all breeding is done through genetic engineering. And that we're going to, all of our sex and all of our whatever emotional connection we have with each other, whatever compassion we have and affection we have for each other,

is all going to be enhanced by technology in a way where we're willing to give up this idea of a woman carrying a baby inside of her body and then it coming out like that. I wonder if we can get past the point of where we're at now with, you know, like it's kind of whatever we're doing now, it's working in terms where life is better than it was 100 years ago and it's better than it was 200 years ago and we're getting better in so many ways but we're still plagued by so many of the the the primate dominator instincts that we've had from the beginning of time you know it's funny because if we are able to eliminate all of those things that you just described i mean i think there's a good argument we're not even really fucking human anymore you know what i mean yeah because you have this new thing it's like we're evolving in real time moving on to a different stage in our

evolution but i like your point about competition because there are people who would argue you just can't like base a society around that and you shouldn't have that as part of the society. I don't agree with that. I think you need some semblance of competition because, obviously, people, to one extent or another, have an innate preference for competition in many respects. Yes. But the thing is we also have a feel for community. Everybody wants community. Everybody wants to be part of something bigger than themselves. So the thing is we're a walking contradiction. We have a lot of these things naturally within us. So in my opinion, the best thing you could do, given that reality,

is create a system that allows all of the things about you to thrive, and you harness those things for good. And so that's why, you know, for the longest time on my show, I've been a big proponent of social democracy, because social democracy is this idea that you set up a system where you take the basics off of the table. So you say, you know what, if you're in the society and the society sufficiently wealthy enough, you're going to have health care, you're going to have education, you're going to have paid vacation time by law, you're going to have all these things which will make it so that you're not just living to be part of the economy. You're not just living to serve some sort of fucking corporation. But after that, after people have their basics met, do I have a problem with competition being part of the engine that helps drive humanity forward? Not at all.

That might be where we're doing it wrong, right? I am 100% with you on that, that I think that if if our if our country really looked at itself like a community and we really wanted everyone in the community to have their needs met and we all agreed on that, you know, because this is this idea that some people are lazy and this is why welfare doesn't work. And this is what I was on welfare when I was a kid. I remember it very very clearly i remember my parents being on food stamps i remember drinking powdered milk i remember it being a part of our life we got out of that and we stopped we stopped living in poverty because my parents worked hard and they got out of it but that is what we're talking about like where someone steps in and helps people get by if everyone's needs were met when it comes to food and shelter and education and healthcare, I think people that are competitive and people that are ambitious would still be so.

So you can't have a quality of outcome because you're not going to have a quality of income. Or excuse me, you're not going to have a quality of effort. You're not. Or talents, or natural income. Or excuse me, you're not going to have a quality of effort. You're not. Or talents, or natural talents. Yes, especially if there's things, like there's some people that want to be good at something, but they're just not physically capable of it, right?

I think that we have to think of the other stuff. I'm hearing those clicking. I'm sorry. I was going to forget my thoughts, so I wanted to jot it down. I'm writing it down, but it was clicking for you. I apologize. those clicking. I'm sorry. I was going to forget my thoughts, so I wanted to jot it down. I'm writing it down, but it was clicking for you. I apologize. Go ahead. There's a way to do both.

There's a way to cover people's expenses in terms of food and in terms of health care and in terms of just making sure that your basic needs are met so people aren't starving or living homeless. How much better would the world be if homelessness just didn't exist and people were like, well, they need to get a fucking job. Wouldn't it be better for everybody? Just forget about that. I'm not saying like you work hard and they don't and they're camping. We get it. We understand that. But wouldn't it be better if that was never an issue? Like there was no issue like that and that basic needs were met for all people that are a part of the community.

Now, by the way, studies show that you actually save money. The taxpayer saves money. Because of crime. That's right. Because of crime. Because when they're on the street, sometimes they have to go to the hospital. They have to go to all these different places. If you give everybody a roof over their head, it doesn't have to be a fucking mansion or a big house for all these people. But if you give homeless people a roof over their head, studies show it saves the taxpayer money in the long run. So you're doing the right thing, not only morally, but if you give homeless people a roof over their head, studies show it saves the taxpayer money in the long run. So you're doing the right thing, not only morally,

but you're also doing the right thing economically. So it's an interesting thing when people argue against that. But yeah, I want to get to the point where if somebody doesn't make it, I can blame them. I want to get to that point. I want to be at the point where I'm like, you didn't make it because of your own efforts. But even then, it's like, you got to go back to their,

you know, it's determinism. You got to go back to their childhood. You gotta go back to how they were raised. How did you get to this point? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to say why someone makes it or why someone doesn't. I think if you look at how someone did make it, you could draw a pretty clear assumption. But if you look at

why someone didn't make it, that's when things get complicated. Because you're dealing with emotional trauma, and you're dealing with abuse, and you're dealing with maybe their father always told them they're a fucking loser and it's like they're like shell shocked or maybe they're beaten up by their older brother. Weird shit can fuck with people. You know, you never really know why someone is inferior. That's very true. But under an ideal system, I think those people would still be able to survive.

Yeah. That's my point. Right. And you made a good point. And mine as well. You made a great point about welfare there because you reminded me of there's this new study that came out not that long ago about universal basic income. And there's this mayor in Stockton, California that did this trial run. He gave a bunch of people $500 and they have some really good data on this now.

So they found that the percentage of the money that went towards what people view as vices, so like drinking or gambling or whatever it may be, 2%. Wow. So most of the money went towards food and went towards rent and went towards things that people need. And there was one example from the study. There was this guy who worked a job that he hated he wanted to get a new job But he never got the time off to go interview for a new job as soon as he got crystal brought it up yesterday That's right. Yeah, that's where I got story from from her. She read the whole study $500 made it so it changed his life and now he makes way more money and he's much happier and amazing This is what people fucking eat. It's listen. It's not rocket science. We have Social Security for old people Everybody agrees Social security is wonderful.

The polls on that thing are through the roof. Americans of all different political stripes are like, that's great. I want to give grandma some money to make sure she's okay. All we're talking about is social security for all. And it's not going to make the economy collapse. If you're concerned about the cost of it, I got fucking news for you. You better look at the Iraq war. You better look at the Afghanistan war.

You better look at all the corruption in our government. You better look at, I mean, that's where we're wasting our money. They pumped trillions of dollars with a T into the stock market at the height of COVID because they were afraid that COVID was, you know, grinding the economy to a halt. Nobody said dick when they pumped trillions in over COVID. But now all of a sudden, when we talk about a much lower figure, when it comes to making sure people can afford food, now everybody's concerned about the cost. Fucking spare me. We spend so much money on our empire. We have a 90% civilian drone death rate. This is where our money's going towards. It's going towards permanently occupying Afghanistan and Iraq.

Yeah. And what you mean by civilian death rate with drones is accidental. Yeah. People need to understand that. When they're using drones, they're only killing 10% of the intended targets. That's right. 90% of them are collateral damage. And by the way, that was under Obama that number came from. And under Trump, we don't have new numbers in terms of the civilian death rate. Tremendous improvement.

He got rid of the guardrails too, though. There were some guardrails under Obama. Trump was like, get rid of that shit. Really? In other words, yes, we'll strike with even less evidence, basically. Really? Yes. So this is what our money goes towards. And, you know, all the Wall Street bailouts, think about all the money we spent propping up Wall Street. And this was under George W. Bush. This was under Barack Obama. And this is under Donald Trump in the form of his new tax cut bill where he gave a corporate tax cut to these massive corporations.

Eighty three percent of the benefits of his 2017 tax cut bill went to the top 1%. If you're worried about where your money's going, look at that shit first. That's the stuff that it shouldn't be going towards. I mean, again, just to bring up that Wall Street bailout, because it's so egregious how it went down. In 2008, we had the subprime mortgage crisis and the Great Recession. And the government stepped in, they bailed out a lot of these companies. And then they said, no strings attached to it, so you do what you want with the money. You know what they did? They turned around and they paid bonuses to the same motherfuckers that just crashed the

companies. So in other words, all those people failed up. In 2008. This is 2008 I'm talking about. Wasn't the problem with that is that they had to give these people bonuses, and if they didn't, they would have left and went to other banks, and they were worried about losing their top criminals. That's the argument. Exactly.

We need to retain the talent. The talent of what? That's like you have a basketball team, and you never made it to the first round of the playoffs eight years in a row, and you say, we got to keep them exactly as they are. That is dirty. It is. That they got bonuses. And you know why?

Because it all comes back to the corruption. That's why they did it. It wasn't actually about saving the economy. It's about all these politicians, Democrat and Republican, take money from corporate America. They take money from Wall Street. They take money from the military industrial complex. They take money from big pharma. And then guess what? They turn around and do favors for them. correlation between what the corporations want and the top 1% wants and policy, and there's almost no correlation between what the bottom 90% wants and policy. So regular people don't get what they want, but the corporations do and the billionaires do. I wonder what it would really cost to give like legitimate healthcare for everybody, free education in terms of college level education. If we decided to subsidize all the universities, and if we decided to give people a universal basic income,

what would that look like in terms of the restructuring of people's taxes and how much money would have to go to that? And what, I mean, we've gotten really accustomed to the idea of war, right? And spending money on war is just, well, that's what we do. Because it's always been what we do. To make people have like this monumental shift in where the money goes and the way it gets allocated in our country would require people to kind of rethink things. And we'd have to accept it and there'd be a lot of debate. But I wonder how much would be involved? So I'll answer that. But funny enough, the polls actually show the people are already there on this issue.

The people are there, but of course the government is not there because they're corrupt. What do the polls show? The polls show that 60% of the American public wants Medicare for All. That's universal health care. Medicare for All is, I think that's an easy sell. Harder sell is universal basic income. Well, actually, there was a poll at the peak of COVID. Now, this number may have dropped since the peak of COVID, but at the time, it was 55% that were in favor of UBI because everybody

was struggling. Nobody had money, and they were like, fuck, that sounds like a great idea. Well, that's when Andrew Yang's ideas about universal basic income got revisited. A lot of people were like, oh, he was right. See, it wasn't automation that made us first reconsider it. It was just a pandemic. That's right. Now, it wasn't automation that made us first reconsider it. It was just a pandemic. That's right. Now, to answer your question about cost. So there was Bernie Sanders introduced a bill when he was running for president. I believe the number was 60 or 65 billion dollars to have free college. And so they did a comparison. They did a great comparison in The Intercept showing that that same year that he proposed it, I think it had to be like 2017 or 2018,

just the increase for the year in military spending was $80 billion. And nobody batted an eyelash. Just the increase. Just the increase. That's not even the total military budget. So that alone could pay for university degrees or university education for anybody who wanted it. Yes, and in fact, Bernie's plan paid for it by what's called a Wall Street transaction tax. So you know those day traders on Wall Street who just push numbers around on a computer screen all day? You tax them some tiny fraction and you could pay for it. Tiny fraction of a penny for each transaction. He explained that to me. But the numbers,

like how many people are we talking about who would go to college would that pay for? I'm not sure. Is it only kids that are getting out of like, what if a guy is like maybe 35 years old and he wants to attend night school after work twice a week to try to better his education, to get a better job? Is that included in that as well? So I have no idea if that's included in his legislation. But of course, these are all important questions that you have to ask. You have to ask about trade school too, for example. Hey, some people want to go to college, but other people want to go to trade schools. Trade school included in it. These are all very important things that need to be fleshed

out. But also to answer your question on Medicare for all, because you said this is an easier sell, definitely is an easier sell. 60% of the American public is already there. There was even a poll that came out a while ago that showed more Republicans want it than don't want it. Really? Yes, that's before the massive propaganda effort where they do the, hey, you're going to pay for it, and it doesn't work, and all this stuff. But there was a study from the University of Massachusetts Amherst which found that Medicare for All saves $5 trillion. That place is the biggest lefty propaganda spot. Well, it was a study based on comparing world systems.

But University of Amherst, that is a socialist hellhole. If you want to look at the study, we can look at it. I shouldn't say hellhole, but it's not. It's just like, even in the 80s, when I was doing stand-up and I would go to Amherst, I was like, this place is crazy. I'm not defending the college campus. It's a great area. Just to be fair.

It's a great area. I probably would agree with you on how dumb the college kids are there. In terms of the academic study coming out of there, I'm pretty sure. Because think about it, Joe. The way the system works now, you have a giant, rapacious, for-profit middleman. They're just a mafia in between you and your doctor, and they take their cut. The whole idea of Medicare for All is just get rid of the mafia. There is no middleman.

There is no cut going to a middleman anymore. Right. But it's more complicated than that, right? Just the idea of paying doctors, like can doctors still charge what they would like to charge? Or should we put a cap on what they charge? Should we treat it like a free market thing? Like we treat anything else. Like if you went to a tattoo artist, some tattoo artists will charge this much. Should we treat doctors in a different way than any other thing? Because it's an essential service for people. So just think of it like this. The way it would work is the way it works for firemen or cops. It's the same thing. That's all it is. So the real question is where is the funding source coming from? But here's the problem with that. It doesn't work like that in

the private sector. Like the way it is now, it doesn't work like that. That's right. It doesn't work like that. Where's the funding source coming from? But here's the problem with that. It doesn't work like that in the private sector. Like the way it is now, it doesn't work like that. That's right. It doesn't work like that now. Right. That's correct. Yes. Why would doctors have an incentive to become an orthopedic surgeon if they're going to get paid specifically the way firemen or cops do?

They wouldn't. So you wouldn't get the best kind of surgery. The kind of surgery you get when you go to a real expert, a guy who works in the Lakers or something like that, some fucking wizard at reattaching ACLs, that guy needs incentive to become who he is. Those super ambitious doctors that are the top of the food chain, those are the ones that people seek out. Would that guy be able to still charge a lot of fucking money for those surgeries? And that is one of the reasons why they're so good at it in the first place, is because that guy can have a Ferrari and live in a big house in Beverly Hills. And this is, I mean, this has always been the system. That's the reason why people come. I have friends from

Canada that will come to the United States for surgery and pay for it out of their pocket, because they want to get better doctors, more incentivized doctors. It's also true that it works the other way, though, as well. Remember when Rand Paul went to Canada to get some surgery, and this is a guy who's notorious for blasting their socialized medicine system. I mean, listen- He went to Canada? For what?

Rand Paul went to Canada to get some sort of procedure, some sort of medical procedure and of course everybody was like, that's massive hypocrisy on his part. Right, but Rand Paul's also a doctor and he probably knew that this one guy up there was a specialist in one particular thing. But that's the exact counter to the point you just made, which is- Not necessarily. It's usually the exception to the rule because more people are coming from Canada to the United States to get surgery than are going from the United States to Canada. It might be just an aberration or an outlier.

So is it your- Let's find out. I'm just asking you, is it your contention that Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Australia, Canada, all these places that have universal healthcare systems, that they don't have the same level of high-quality surgeons and whatever that we have here? I have talked to doctors who say that's the case. I've talked

to doctors who say that this system is not perfect, that it's deeply flawed, and that greed and corruption are a gigantic part of it. However, the most innovative and most skilled surgeons and doctors are in the United States. I don't know if that's true, but I heard this from more than one doctor. It's very possible that there's a reason why the Saudi princes come here when they want stuff done, not contesting that at all.

The part that people don't want to talk about, which is actually, I think, the way more important point, is that anywhere from 45,000 to 60,000 Americans die every single year because they don't have access to basic health care. Yes, but these two things aren't mutually exclusive. We're talking about two different things. Like, just because someone has basic health care, isn't it possible to have both? Isn't it possible to have a system like you have public defenders, right? Everyone's entitled to a public defender. But people want a system like you have public defenders, right? Everyone's entitled to a public defender. But people want a private defender because the public defenders are

overburdened and all that stuff. I mean, again, the point I would make is that it's a funding issue. So if you were to pay those public defenders more and attract more talent, so in other words, can you craft a universal healthcare system where there's sufficient compensation for the experts that you're talking about? I say absolutely. Because at the end of the day, it all comes down to funding, like you're saying. Yes, if you want high quality, you're going to have to pay for that high quality. So you should set up the system so that, yeah, I don't want doctors making next to no money or making less than what they would make under this system now. You want to have it so that you are incentivizing these people to stay here and treat here.

And you absolutely can craft a system like that. And even if you do that, you end up saving money because there's just such a, I mean, it's a fucking black hole here, Joe. Forget insurance companies who are, you know, mafia criminals in their own respect. Hospitals as well are really fucking bad. I remember covering a story on my show at least five years ago where I went through line by line this medical bill that became, you know, it blew up, it went viral because they were price gouging for everything. They even had this line for cough suppressant aids and they charged like $100 for it. Cough drops?

No, you know what it was? A tissue. What? A tissue. That's a cough suppressant aid? Cough suppressant aid. You should go to jail if you write that down. But the funny thing is, what do you look up here? This is what Rand Paul said he went to Canada for.

Okay. It shows shoulders because it offers the surgery that he needed at the right price. The hospital specializes in hernia repair using natural tissue rather than artificial mesh. The Louisville Courier-Journal reports that the procedure in Canada will cost an estimated $5,000 to $8,000, according to Healthcare Blue Book. A hernia repair in the United States will cost between $3,000 and $12,000, or up to $19,000 for a laparoscopic repair. Read that next line, because that's important right there. Healthcare costs in the U.S. are also notoriously difficult to determine prior to procedure

and plenty of patients have received bills that can be thousands or tens of thousands of dollars over what they expected to pay. That's to the point of not only are the health insurance companies price gouging people, it's also the healthcare providers who are price gouging people. So really we have a scam within a scam on top of a scam in the US healthcare system. Another perk of going to Canada is that Shouldice offers a resort-like setting for recovering with fresh meals, an exercise program, onsite massage, and relaxing views. So I heard it was a nice spot to go and you save a little cheddar.

Yeah. So I mean, this is one of the things I talk about all the time on my show is that I really don't think people fully understand because you're not taught this stuff, just how much you're getting screwed in this country. If you're a normal working person, if you're a normal working person, like this is the only developed country that doesn't have paid vacation time by law. Every other country, the second you get a job from day one within that first year, you can get, it varies from place to place, but anywhere from like two weeks to four weeks off paid by law. Whereas here in the US, if you happen to get some time off, you should, it's just because your employer's being nice. And oftentimes it's not paid. It's, you know, it's unpaid. And it's little things like that that just drive me fucking crazy because we're

one of the richest countries in the world. Unpaid vacations. That sounds crazy to me. What's that? Unpaid vacation. That's crazy. They'll say, oh, you could take it. We won't fire you. You could take a couple weeks off, but we're not going to fucking pay you. If you're working for someone day in, day out, five days a week, eight hours a day, what in the Christ? I mean, this is the thing.

This country, the last time we had a government that really looked out for regular Americans, for working people, it was the New Deal era. New Deal era was a long fucking time ago. You know, so we were able to get well between the New Deal era and you could argue the war on poverty as well. So maybe a little dash of Lyndon Johnson in there with FDR. But you have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. We're like coasting off of the little bit of help that we got from the previous generation from the Great Depression. You know, like Biden did those fourteen hundred dollar stimulus stimulus checks, the one-time $1,400 stimulus checks. That's it.

It's like all the impacts of it are already done. It was a one shot of adrenaline and people are going to go right back to where they were before. Well, they were done pretty much right away. Yeah. They go out like that. Trump, how much did he give out? Trump wanted to do $2,000. I think he ended up doing $600. And then Biden was give out? Trump wanted to do $2,000. I think he ended up doing $600.

And then Biden was saying, I'm going to do $2,000. And then at the last minute he goes, yeah, I'm going to do $2,000. But Trump already gave $600. So I'm only going to do $1,400. It was that little sleight of hand move. Which is so fucking Weasley. It's so fucking Weasley. Oh, that's so strange.

It just seems like if there was any time to pull this country together during the pandemic was the time. I mean, I say it all the time that there's a few issues I think that really would unify Americans. And I think somebody should run for president on those particular issues. So the first one would be we need a new version of the New Deal. And somebody should run on making the United States of America the envy of the world when it comes to our infrastructure. I think we should have the best airports in the world. I think we should have the best bridges and roads in the world. I think we should hire millions of people in rebuilding our country and making it beautiful, making it A++ infrastructure. We just need to do deals with China and we can have that over here. They're willing to come in

and negotiate. That's the Belt and Road Initiative. In Africa, they build some infrastructure, and then they say, now we can take all your stuff, right? They give you a loan that you can't possibly pay back. It's very mafia-like. It's a new version of imperialism. Listen, it's terrible, it's wrong, it's evil, but you've got to hand it to them in that it's the new evolution of imperialism. There was a time when people would just show up on people's shores and be like, this is now ours, and you can fuck off. Then we evolved that a little bit to, we're not going to go in there and tell you all this shit is ours, but we're going to put a puppet dictator who's from your land in there, and then that person's going to have a deal with us and sort of give us that stuff under the table. Now this is the new version of that of, what if I actually helped you out a little bit and built a couple roads, maybe built some schools?

Then what's going to happen? Give you a little loan. There it is., maybe built some schools, then what's going to happen? Give you a little loan. There it is. Yeah. You know? And China's doing that all over the world. They are.

That's what's wild. And the U.S., because our leaders are stupid, what did they do? Think about what we've been doing the past few decades. I mean, the Iraq war is the big one, right? Right. To do an illegal war based on lies, kill minimum 200,000 innocent Iraqi civilians. So we're dropping bombs everywhere and pissing people off and further withdrawing from the world in a sense.

And they're doing the opposite. They're building bridges, quite literally. They're talking to more people. I mean, they're just more intelligent in how they're trying to expand their empire. I'm against empire as a matter of principle. I don't think the U.S. should be one. I don't think China should be one. I don't think Russia should be one.

Whatever. It's all bad. But the way that they're going about it is just more logical in that it's going to have better results in the long run. And that's terrible for the United States. No, it's terrible. And I think that during COVID, it was probably pretty bad, too, because a lot of companies, they bought controlling stakes in. They started buying into the stock market in a big way. We really need to bring back manufacturing here in a serious way. I think it was a real horrendous, corrupt decision when the government decided to do NAFTA, decided to do permanent normal trade relations with China, decided to do all of the terrible so-called free trade deals that they did, which are really outsourcing deals to enrich the corporate overlords and send overseas all these good-paying jobs. And as a result of that, it's been a race to the bottom. And now you have, you know, I just drove across a lot of this country.

You have dilapidated place after dilapidated. Am I saying that word right? Dilapidated. Did I say that wrong? Dilapidated? Dilapidated? I think you said dilapidated. Yeah, my brain's not working anymore. Dilapidated? Dilapidated? I think you said dilapidated. Yeah. My brain's not working anymore.

Dilapidated? Dilapidated. There you go. You see all these towns are just crumbling and the jobs have been outsourced and you see these things that have been left alone for decades and you think, this doesn't have to be like this. This was a choice made by the corrupt politicians to outsource the jobs for more profit. choice made by the corrupt politicians to outsource the jobs for more profit. They'd rather pay somebody pennies on the dollar in Bangladesh than pay an American worker a living wage and give

them healthcare. So, I mean, you have to fix that. If you don't fix that, it's going to continue to be a race to the bottom. Yeah. And I don't see any plans on the table. No, I see no plans on the table. The other idea that I was going to tell you, which I brought up on the podcast before, is that I wish we had a direct democracy law in this country where people could vote directly on the biggest five or so issues every time they vote for president. So then everybody would decide, hey, I want to legalize weed. I want to pay a $15 minimum wage. I want to end the wars in Iraq or whatever. And we'd be in a lot better place if we had that, because that's a way to go around the corruption, you know, because again, all the polls show the American people are relatively united on a lot of these basic issues, but the political overclass doesn't do any of the things we want them to. So how would we go around that?

One way is to actually get the corruption out of the system and make it so the politicians are more beholden to the people than the donors. But that's a long-term thing to fix. And I think they're always going to find some workarounds. What they can't really work around is if we add a direct democracy law where what the people say goes yeah you know and that's not on every issue to be clear because if you have a right the people can't vote to take away your rights you know what i mean so it needs to be a constitutional direct democracy law so we have a constitution these things are off the table you always have

a right to free speech you know these are all things that they can't just vote away. But on economic issues, on foreign policy issues, on social issues, people should have a right to vote on that. Do you think that people should have a need to understand what they're voting on before they vote? I think that we need to create a system where they are educated and they do learn this stuff. But you can't force someone to learn things. You can't force somebody to learn things. You need to have good schools and good education that gets people to the point where they did learn this stuff.

But we can't have a system where up front we say you have to learn X, Y and Z before you vote, because if we do, you end up with poll tests and literacy tests and a lot of the former Jim Crow and segregation methods where you try to exclude the undesirables and the lower class folks up front. And that's what they would do. They would do that with poor black folks. And of course, they would try to do that with anybody who's lower income these days. So you can't really have a system where only like the educated elite can vote because I got news for everybody. The educated elite are also fucking idiots. Yeah. A lot of them are fucking idiots. There's a lot of them that stopped educating themselves the moment they got out of school

and just stagnated. Yeah, that's right. Or were good at memorizing things. You know, it's interesting that there's a lot of decisions that people make that they really don't understand. And there's built, especially on a state state level like I'll give you an example in Colorado they voted to reintroduce wolves whoa yeah well there are intense it's very intense there's already wolves in Colorado they found breeding pairs and so they're naturally

making their way from Wyoming they walk walk down into Colorado. They didn't think that that was possible, but it's happening. But in Idaho, they've developed such a wolf problem, they're trying to kill 90% of them because they're attacking all this farm life. The thing about it is they're really hard to hunt. Once they get a sense that people are hunting them, they find they're scarce. They take off. They're smart. Yeah once they get a sense that people are hunting them, they find them, they're scarce. They take off.

They're smart. Yeah, they're really fucking smart. And they have some weird way of figuring things out. And they know how to stay the fuck away from people. So even though they're opening up hunting, people saying like Idaho wants to kill 90% of the wolves. Yeah, but they're not going to be able to. Like you don't understand.

Like this is like to make it legal for people to, whenever they want, go out and hunt wolves. Good luck finding one. And good luck hunting them. This is not like deer hunting. This is completely different and wildly ineffective. The reason why they extirpated wolves way, way, way back in the day was they used dead animals filled with strychnine and they left them around and there was a lot of collateral damage. They killed a lot of wolverines and a lot of other animals and scavengers. It wasn't just the wolves. They killed a lot of coyotes. They killed

everything else that would eat that stuff too. But that's how they did it. That was the only way they could figure out how to do it. And just by shooting them with guns, you're not going to be able to. But the impact on livestock has been significant. They're losing a lot of livestock. The impact on elk populations is very significant. Impact on mountain lions is significant. They found out that mountain lion populations have dropped down to 25% because the wolves are stealing the kills of the mountain lion. So say if a mountain lion kills a deer,

wolves come along and chase the mountain lion away, then the mountain lion has to kill another deer. So the mountain lions are killing probably more animals, and they're eating less, and some of them are starving to death. Because wolves are smart. They'll just follow that mountain lion around. Go ahead, kill something else, bitch. And then they'll run after the cat and chase it away

and then eat the cat's deer, and then the cat has to go kill's deer. And then the cat has to go kill another. And then, you know, so are the laws from state to state on stuff like that? Are they trying to do a balancing act when it comes to population control with certain animals that could be a very big issue for people and agriculture? No, that would be a decision made by wildlife biologists. This is a decision made by the population. So it's a decision. It's an initiative that's put forth by people that are environmentalists or their animal rights activists and they think that it would be a good thing to have wolves and

It's interesting because I'm a fan of wolves. I think they're fucking awesome, but Wolves are there's a reason why the big bad wolf is in those little kids stories So wait, did this pass with a majority of the population vote? Yes. In the state? Yes. So more than 50% of the population in Colorado, you said? That's the state you're talking about?

Yes. They said, we're voting to reintroduce wolves here? More than 50% of the voting population. Obviously, it's not 50% of the actual population. But they reintroduced wolves, the same way they did in Yellowstone in the 1990s. Right. And so they said, I would be very curious to see the wording of it. Was it like misleading wording, you think?

I don't think it was. No, there's a lot of hardcore lefties in Colorado. We're just like, we want wolves here, man. Wolves are amazing. That's my spirit animal. Yeah, so in other words, the point you're making is that in many instances, when you give the people the vote, they get it wrong. Well, they don't know what they're voting on.

Or maybe they don't understand it. Or maybe they, look, maybe they disagree with me. Maybe they'd be great if wolves killed all the elk and started killing wildlife and just, they were your first man. To your point, I mean, listen, if you let Americans in like 1960 directly vote on whether or not black people should have equal rights, they would have said no. See, that's what – back to your point about rights. You cannot allow people to vote on rights. That's right. Rights are off the table.

That's it. But what about things that would directly affect – like what if there was some sort of a vote to bring back coal-fired power plants because we can increase jobs and then you're going to, you know, we could take a little bit. We've got a chart here that shows that an increase in carbon doesn't actually do anything. Turns out we just plant more trees and everything's fine. Yeah. There's a lot of people that would try to trick people with that kind of shit, right? So you're 100% right about this, and that's both the beauty and how messy democracy is because yeah

i i would contend that if you give people a direct vote the majority of the time bar some sort of insane propaganda campaigns the majority of the time they're going to get stuff right but of course they're going to fucking get things wrong of course that's just the nature of the beast it's like when you know in in gaza when palest Palestinians voted, who'd they pick? Hamas. And, you know, of course, the West was like, we don't fucking like that. We'd rather have them pick Fatah. But it's like, if you believe in it as a matter of principle, then you win some and you lose some. Just like how Democrats were distraught on the night Trump won in 2016,

and Republicans were distraught on the night Biden won in the last election, by the way. Didn't I nail it with every single thing I said in that podcast? You did. You nailed it. I went back and I watched it and I was like, fuck, I'm more right than even I realized. Holy shit. You so nailed it that anybody that had conspiracy ideas about why, well, how come

Trump was winning and Biden wound up winning after they counted in the mail-in votes? I go, Kyle Kalinske called the entire thing from the beginning of the night. Oh, maybe Kyle's a CIA operative and here to destroy America from the inside. I'm on the hit list. He's working with

John Cena for the Chinese. You're on the hit list? Yeah, because I'm one of the biggest proponents of, or excuse me, biggest voices against all of their dirty wars. And we're very hard on, in fact, the guy we just had on Crystal Kylan, friends, is the CIA's worst nightmare.

He wrote this book, The Devil's Chessboard. What's his name? His name is David Talbot. You would love this guy. I hope that it's got a good cover. I hope it's got a great cover. But dude, it's all about Alan Dulles and the CIA and how Alan Dulles really killed JFK. This guy is the fucking CIA's worst nightmare.

I mean, they despise him, and we had him on Crystal Kylen, friends. It was a great podcast. He told us all this amazing stuff. Wow. There it is. I can't do any more fucking JFK shit. I went on a JFK run for like three or four years of my life where I just read JFK

assassination books. Yeah. Just too much. No, it is. I wasn't even that into it, but Crystal got me into it. They killed the fuck out of that president. I mean, there was even a CNN article a few years ago that was like, listen, we went through all the conspiracies.

Was it Cuba? Was it Russia? Was it the mafia? They said the only one we couldn't debunk was the CIA. Yeah. That's CNN saying that. That's nuts. That's fucking crazy.

Was that when Trump was in office? I think it was before Trump was in office. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. They killed the shit out of that dude. Yeah, definitely. That's the big question.

How much real influence does a president actually have once they get into office? How much can they really change? And what happens when they start stepping out of line? It's a great question. Listen, I don't want to sound conspiratorial at all, but there is a thing called a deep state. And by that I mean there's people who are there from every administration. They're at the CIA. They're at the FBI, they're permanently there, and their jobs are not contingent on an election that happens

every four years, you know? And so they're calling a lot of the shots, particularly when it comes to foreign policy. If you're talking about the Pentagon, if you're talking about the CIA, these guys make a lot of the decisions. So yeah, there's going to be some clashes behind the scenes. There always are clashes behind the scenes. Somebody made a great point. They said, we know as a matter of fact, it's historical record that the United States during the Cold War overthrew all these South American governments that we didn't like because they were leftist. And we wanted to put in, you know, right wing puppets who were more sympathetic to our ideology and allow capitalism to exist there. So we overthrew all these governments. What makes anybody think that we would just draw the line here at home? Like what? We're so magical and we're so special that

the CIA people would be like, no, I have a moral stand against overthrowing our own president, even though we just overthrew 17 before lunch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, I mean, it's very, very plausible, man, that that's fucking killed the guy. It's very plausible. It's more likely than not most americans there was another poll that showed i think most americans don't buy the lone gunman theory no they shouldn't it's a stupid theory i've had conversations with people about it and the what they're willing to accept is so dumb like the the magic bullet theory is literally one of the dumbest fucking theories here's why

not that a bullet can't travel weirdly through people's bodies it definitely can the fact that the bullet came out pristine yes and there's more fragments in connelly's wrist than are missing from the bullet and they just found that bullet magically on a gurney oh okay you found it and the only reason why they had to make up this magic bullet theory in the first place is because a guy got hit under the underpass with a ricochet. And that guy, when he got hit under the underpass, he got hit and they go, okay, well, obviously one bullet hit this curb and it hit this guy. So now we have to make one bullet go through two people and have all this damage when a more likely

scenario is more fucking bullets more gunshots and then also like the bethesda maryland autopsy report is very different than what they described in dallas and dallas they described the hole in his neck as an entry wound in bethesda maryland it was a tracheotomy. And then they doctored his head. They did a lot of stuff. It's like his fucking brain was missing by the time he got to Bethesda. There's like so much. David Lifton's book, Best Evidence, is fantastic about it, but it's terrifying. Because as you get into it, deeper into the book, you start sweating.

You start going, Jesus Christ, these fucking people got away with it. This is 1963. Alan Dulles, man. It's all Alan Dulles. And he's the airport. The Dulles airport. That's right. He is the airport. He is the airport. Isn't that? That guy was in bed with the Nazis, by the way. Well, of course he was.

Yeah, he was in bed with the Nazis. Well, the fucking entire NASA was filled with Nazis. NASA was filled with Nazis, and a lot of those guys in the government at the time would tell you the real threat, the real enemies were the Soviets. It's not the Nazis. Because Nazis were actually good for business. Because there was a lot of business connections. Listen.

That's still not good. I mean, Wernher von Braun used to hang the five slowest Jews in front of his rocket factory in Berlin. The Simon Wiesenthal Center said that if Wernher von Braun was alive, they would prosecute him for crimes against humanity. Wow. He was a real Nazi. Like a bona fide, dyed in the wool, hanging out with Hitler Nazi. And all those fucking guys that came over in Operation Paperclip that had dueling scars

on their faces. Do you know about the dueling scars? No. that had dueling scars on their faces. Do you know about the dueling scars? No. Nazis had this thing where they would put goggles on and they would have sword fights with real swords, like rapiers, real thin swords,

and they would slice the fuck out of their faces. And it was a thing that they would do, these dueling contests, where these scars were a badge of honor. And so a lot of these guys would walk around with these horrific facial scars. And that was to let all these other people know these are bad motherfuckers

that did the dueling thing. You need to see these images. That's creepy. I can't believe you don't know about this. No. They would put goggles on and long thin swords and they would have fucking sword fights and try to mark up each other's faces. See, in movies when they had the nazis have the scars i thought that was just for dramatic effect oh no no no show me some images of nazi dueling scars like famous members of the the operation paperclip people that came over had nazi dueling scars wow on their face

and they're like this this is what they look like. Whoa. Yeah. It was really common. By the way, they're fucking, look at these guys all, look at that guy. Wow. With the goggles. That's what it looked like. So that's how they'd slice each other up. But it was like a badge of courage and a badge of honor. Like they would proudly wear these.

Can you go down and get the guy in the lower bottom with the blue hat? Lower bottom with the blue hat? Yeah, that guy. Look at that fucking thing. Wow. Sliced this guy's face open. Whoa. He obviously had some skin grafted to the bottom of his face.

He definitely did. That's exactly what that looks like. Look at that guy on the right, right next to your cursor right there. Yeah, look at this guy. Holy shit. That was really common. So when you see these guys, they had these scars on their face. It was to let you know.

Look at the guy in the upper, with the tie, the upper, that guy right there. Oh my God. Yeah. That guy with the hook one. Oh my God. They'd slice each other's faces open. Yeah. And so they would walk around with those and everybody knew that this guy was a Nazi. Did you know that a lot of the top Nazi brass were into what's called Norse mythology? It's like this version of paganism And so it was kind of like a pseudo religion in a way that they crafted around Hitler It had to do with a lot of like they really believed so a lot of people think oh they believed in a false science of Eugenics it was both a false science of eugenics But also it was tied to this Norse mythology this paganism and they had this rigid hierarchy of like

Superiority and human beings and of course the Aryans were on top and then you know you go down the list it's really crazy stuff because it was not only is it dictatorial fascist but the fact that it was also had a dash of like extreme religiosity and mythology makes it even creepier well you know a lot of people think that whenever you get someone who's involved in running a country that has this sort of powerful cult of personality thing going for them, like Hitler, that they craft a kind of a religion around that person. That person becomes a savior. And that person, that was what a lot of people were worried about with Trump. Because the really dumb people that were into Trump looked at Trump like Trump was a messenger from Jesus.

Yeah. They really thought he was sent here to do something really special because God was tired about all the sin and the way people were treating each other and the way people were living their lives. And he was going to send Trump, which of all fucking people. What I'm amazed by is when you drive across this country, everybody still has up all of their Trump shit. They didn't miss a fucking beat. Remember when Hillary lost, she had to go in the woods for a while. She had to get away. You got

to get away. When Mitt Romney lost, you got to go away. Nobody wants to see you. Nobody wants to hear from you. Shut the fuck up. You're a loser. Trump somehow, he was only away for like two and a half minutes and he came right back on the scene. i think part of that is because he's been silenced by social media you know he has he has and uh it's crazy the new york times released this thing where they showed like all the searches for him when he was still on twitter versus now the searches now that he's off twitter it's fucking crazy it is crazy it's and he launched his own little social media thing on his website, this blog that he tried to make look like Twitter.

He did it for like less than a month. And then he was like, I'm not doing this anymore because the numbers were fucking terrible. Nobody was watching. But that shows you if they could silence the president, the former president, any one of us are at their fucking whim. And that gets back to what we were talking about earlier. The thing that I'm afraid of with my YouTube channel. I mean, I used to gain about 30 to 40,000 subscribers per month. And then as soon as the YouTube CEO

started talking about, we're cracking down on borderline content. So in other words, not the stuff that's clearly over the line, the stuff that's like close to the line. What we want to do is not pump that out to new people. So they make it so they de-rank you in the algorithm so you're not spread to new people. I went from gaining 30 or 40,000 subs a month to about 4,000 subs a month. And so it's a stark contrast immediately after her saying that. you who are longtime listeners of my show, hey, I used to put the autoplay on, click one of your videos, and it would play 20 of your videos in a row. Now you put the autoplay on, you click one of my videos, it goes from me to John Oliver or me to fucking Trevor Noah. So they take people who are almost like the fake outsider voices, and they're like, ah, that's outsider enough, I guess. Put that in right after Kyle, and they'll probably watch that. So not going to lie to you, Joe,

it's a giant hit. I went from, I lost, what was the number? Jackson Hinkle looked into this, another great YouTuber and there was an 88% drop in new subs in one month. Wow. 88%. And now listen. Did you change how you dress? I was just going to say, if it's like me. Maybe you need to dress sexy.

Maybe I'll show some nipple. Show everybody some nipple. Maybe tank top. There is something to this. I'm looking at the Social Blade, which is like public information. And we look at the secular talk here right around March, which is probably when the campaign stuff was ramping up. What is that big spike? Is that when you were on the podcast?

No, that's not when I was on the podcast. I believe. This was the November. This was the election. So that might be then. That is the one you're on the podcast. But this was This was the November, this was the election, so that might be then. Okay. That is the one you're on the podcast. But he had, this was like, it was like a flat line for all of the campaign area. Yep.

Dude, look what happened to you when you came on our podcast, though. Well, then they let it go. We. Maybe. Well, so. No, no. It was, he was on this podcast. So everybody found out about it.

So what happens is. You've got a bunch of subscribers. Whether I go on your podcast, and by the way, everybody, Secular Talk on YouTube, please check it out. Secular Talk on YouTube please check it out. Secular Talk. Whether it's that, there was also when Crystal and I launched our new show Crystal Kyle and Friends, we got a little bug from that.

When we talked to Andrew Yang on our podcast, Crystal Kyle and Friends, we got a little. So I still get but it's got to be something like big. You gotta do things. Exactly. Whereas before I wake up and fart into the microphone and gain fucking 40,000 subscribers. Interesting. Interesting. Because they're deciding who should grow and who shouldn't and there must be some like remember when CNN was Talking about podcasters about how you know that there's people on YouTube they get more

More views than a CNN show as if it was some horrible thing They didn't even understand the way they were describing it. They were describing it as if they're entitled to viewers. That's right. They were saying, there's people on YouTube right now that get more views than this show. This is because the market is spoken. Right. And your show's fucking terrible.

That's right. Well, they suck. Brian Stelter's show keeps slipping and slipping and slipping in the ratings. He's the worst. And you know what they do. Same with Don Lemon. It's the same thing. Everybody knows that they're not real. They're not real humans.

And Joe, when you read those articles and you listen to those guys talk, Stelter's done this a number of times. There are segments where they're outright calling for censorship. They're like, hey, please de-platform the people who I don't like because, you know, oh, they're saying things that are conspiracy theories. And by the way, they use that for fucking anything. They use it so loosely. Brian Stelter talking to the press secretary saying, what are we doing wrong? What are we doing wrong? Like, hey, motherfucker, you're supposed to be a journalist.

And they wonder why they get no views. But it's not even that. It's like they're obviously being told a certain amount of what to do. And I mean, maybe he'd be an interesting guy if he had his own fucking podcast. If he could just rely on his own personality and be himself. I don't know. I can't imagine doing that gig. No, you're 100% right about that. Any of those guys. That gig is a strange gig. Listen, I have now for the first time in my life, I've always been outside of the traditional media system, but now for the first time in my life, I have firsthand experience

with how this stuff operates in corporate media. And it's even more gross than I thought it was. How so? So when I launched, we launched Crystal Kyle and Friends, my new podcast with Crystal Ball. It's an interview show that we do. They were basically on the way out at The Hill, the corporation that they worked for. Now, they're one of very few people who've actually maintained to create a really, really good show within the confines of the corporate media system. Like they're a real outsider voice that somehow slipped under the radar and were on corporate media. So when they were going, when they were leaving, they had their goodbye video ready. They were going to put it up.

At the last minute behind the scenes, the higher ups at the Hill changed the title on the video to something incredibly vague, hoping that nobody would watch. It was like Today on Rising or something like that they put, as opposed to what it was supposed to be, which was a big send-off for Crystal and Sagar, and they're starting a new venture and all that stuff. Not only did they do that, they changed the video from, it was supposed to be what's called a premiere video on YouTube, which usually gets more views and gets some more eyeballs. They changed it from a premiere video to a regular video, again, to try to decrease the view count. Then, after it was up for a couple days, they pulled that video down to try to like,

if people tune in to the show Rising for Crystal and Saga, they wanted to sort of bury the fact that Crystal and Saga are going to be gone permanently. And so they took that video down. Then I did a video calling that out and they put it back up a day later. Now, that's just the stuff that's public for everybody to see. What they don't know is that behind the scenes,

Crystal basically had to beg the higher-ups, for the love of God, please let me put our show on YouTube. That's where the audience is. Don't be dumb. Please let us put our show on YouTube. So you mean initially when it first launched? Initially when it first launched. And for the longest time, no, no, no, you don't know what you're talking about.

What did they have it on? They had it on this thing called like hill.tv or something like that. So it was on a website? Yes, and it was getting no views, Joe, none. And so Crystal's like, I'm not an idiot. We got to put it on YouTube. Finally, they let her put it on YouTube. Fast forward to now Crystal and I are launching our show.

She gets the okay from the higher-ups over there. They dare to say to her, after we put our first episode on YouTube and it does phenomenally well, you can't put it on YouTube anymore. I own you on YouTube. What? They said those words to her. I own you on YouTube. And so there was, people don't know about this, there was a standoff behind the scenes. I own you on YouTube. And so there was, people don't know about this, there was a standoff behind the scenes. I own you on YouTube.

So in other words, they said, no, you can't put it up when they thought it was a bad idea. They finally let her put it up. Then they turn around after she's become phenomenally successful and Saga's become phenomenally successful and Rising has taken off. And now that Crystal wants to start a new show with a new host, me, they view that as competition. So they're like,

you're not allowed to put the new show on YouTube, even though we gave you the okay to put it on YouTube. He really said, we own you? One of the corporate higher-ups, don't know the name, one of the corporate higher-ups said, and I quote, I own you on YouTube. I own you on YouTube. Now it gets even worse, Joe. It's getting worse and worse.

Did they have an exclusivity contract where they couldn't be on YouTube as a part of the contract? So what happened is they were in the new negotiating phase for a new contract. And in that new contract, it was like, we're not coming back if I don't get to put this thing on YouTube. And so they were like, okay, fine, you can put it on YouTube. Then they basically reneged on that. You see the point I'm trying to make? But how can they renege if it's a contract? Well, they were in the negotiation part of it. Oh, it they didn't actually sign it that's exactly right so um

the worst part is um she so i launch it and tell my whole audience and we're so excited we get a lot of views on the first one and we tell them this is how it's going to work audio is free for everybody but if you want the video and you want it a day early, you pay $5 on Substack. And after I told my audience, they tell Crystal, you're not even allowed to acknowledge this new podcast existence. So now, and by the way, Joe, we decided we're going to take no ad money. No, we're not going to read any ads. We're not going to have any YouTube ads. We're just doing it. The subscription model, small dollar donations. And then they tell me you can't, she can't mention it to her audience, even though she even had more subscribers than I had. And so we build this new thing. We're making 25% of what we could make 50%

of what we could make. And they say, by the way, we're going to cut off your access to half or more of the fucking people who would want to watch your podcast. But wait a minute. Are you saying that they wouldn't let her advertise you and her on their show that they paid for? She couldn't mention. Okay. But she couldn't mention that show on this show that they pay for. Right. On rising. Right. Can't mention it. Right, but isn't that competition? Wouldn't that make sense, though? It doesn't make sense in our world. Well, that's my point. It doesn't make sense in our world, our world of podcasts, because we always mention each other's shows.

Like, it's part of the fun of podcasts that you can kind of help each other out. So they're pretending that this is a podcast because it's on YouTube, but they're treating it like corporate media. That's exactly right. And I was also banned. I used to go on Rising all the time. We talked about this yesterday. Yes. That you were like one of their biggest guests in terms of like the amount of numbers you would get. And then as soon as you two did a podcast together outside of it, you were banned. You're banned. You can't come back on. Yeah. you can't ban people. Like that kind of shit, like working for someone who says, you can't have this person come on. Like, why?

Are they a criminal? Are they eating babies? Like, what are they doing? Oh, they're just, they're competition. That's nonsense. That's pure nonsense. But that's also normal for that world. That's exactly right.

And that's the point that I'm making here is that that's what that old world is like. So the new media world, we're all friends. We're all talking to each other. Everything is cross promotional. Yes. Everything. And it helps everybody. Like, like when I got you on the, um, end of the world podcast, when we did the, the thing with Tim Dillon with the election, that was great for me. It was great for you and great for me because with me and Tim could have fun, but we don't know what the fuck's going on. You actually understand how the whole system works and you were eerily accurate, right?

That's great for everybody. It's great, first of all, your show's great, so it's great for me to promote it because I want it to do well because I enjoy it. I appreciate that. Thank you, man. This open-minded approach that podcasters have, this bountiful perspective versus a famine mindset, this famine perspective that has always existed in traditional media, is because of the fact there's only a few time slots.

Everybody wanted Thursday at 8 o'clock. That's when Friends was on. That was the whole thing. They wanted this time slot thing, and you were competing for that, so it was very cutthroat. But the Internet has no time slots. It's all wide open, and it's always there. I mean, some people do their shows live, and that, I guess, it's kind of there's competition. But you don't have to watch live.

If they do it live, it goes up later. Like, it's not necessary to have that mindset. Yeah. Now, listen, I want to be clear. There are workers at the Hill who I think are good people. They're just trying to pay the bills, and they're like anybody else. My beef was really with the higher-ups. The higher-ups don't need to exist.

That's exactly my point, man. They're really unnecessary. That's exactly my point. All they do is get in the way. All they do is make people's lives more difficult. All they do is zero-sum thinking and exclusionary, and're banned and you can't do this and you can't do that. They act like executives and they extract money. But there's no need for them in this world. And this is why it's so amazing that Crystal and Sagar have left and done this Breaking Points show and the show became hugely successful right out of the gate. Number one political show in the country immediately. Immediately. became hugely successful right out of the gate. Number one political show in the country immediately. And that's because it's really good.

And look how they're doing it. They're just doing it by themselves. They don't need anybody to be their executive. They don't need anybody looming over their shoulder, making decisions for them, telling them what they can't do, putting restrictions on them that are arbitrary. And then also extracting exorbitant amounts of money. The difference in the amount of money that they were making there versus on their own is mind-blowing.

And guess what? Now the money that they're making, it's all independent. It's all organic. It's all the audience saying, we love you and we want to reward you. So in the case of Crystal and Sagar, they pay the $10 a month and get the perks that come along with breaking points. In the case of Crystal Kylan, friends, they pay the $5 on Substack. Like, this is the way it's supposed to work and people have gotten so fed up with the old system and the rigid hierarchy and the assholes who don't know what the fuck they're talking about or what they're doing trying to control us do you have any

idea how pissed i was joe when they told me she can't even mention the existence of the other podcast you have on their show i was was like, are you fucking kidding me? It's standard, though. I'm not even surprised. I do have to say that I love Saga and I love Crystal. They're fucking awesome. But those new people that they hired on Rising, they're good. Who?

The new folks. So are you talking about Ryan Grimm? You're probably talking about Ryan Grimm. I don't know who they are. It's a man and a woman. Okay, but they've switched them two times. That's why I'm asking who. Oh, really?

Two times already? Well, yes. Ryan Grimm was doing it with this- Gentleman with the glasses? Yes. That's Ryan Grimm. Okay, but they've switched him two times. That's why I'm asking who. Oh, really? Two times already? Well, yes. Ryan Grimm was doing it with this Emily woman. Gentleman with the glasses? Yes. That's Ryan Grimm. Okay. So, Ryan Grimm's an intelligent guy. He's a reporter for The Intercept. Yeah, he's very good. He's intelligent. The new ones who are actually filling in now, a guy named Colin and somebody else named

Emily, not the same Emily, a different Emily. It's the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. So, they got rid of that Ryan guy? Well, they were temporary anyway. They weren't permanent anyway. So that's them. Oh, this is a new guy. Yes, Colin and Emily.

And I watched one segment that they did, Joe, and they were talking about the IRS leaks where we found that billionaires were paying 0.1% in taxes and the most any of them were paying was like 3.5%. The first segment I watched is them saying, I'm so outraged, we need to crack down on whoever leaked this. No.

Swear to God. Swear to God. No. Swear to God. Well, what happened to that guy from The Intercept? He was only temporary filling in. He didn't want to do it permanently. Oh.

Well, he needs to do his own show. He was really good. He's a good reporter. He does real reporting. Who was the girl that was with him? I don't know. I think she was from One American News Network. Because I wanted to hate them. Right?

Saga and Crystal are my friends. Brand loyalty. You love them, right? I'm like, who's this fake Crystal? Who's this fake Saga? They even switched their places. What is this bullshit? But I watched the two of them together. I'm like, oh, they're really good.

Listen, Ryan Grimm's a good guy. And to his credit, and I really mean this Because there are higher-ups there Lord only knows what they're saying to him behind the scenes But he went out there the very first day and he said everybody check out breaking points with Krystal and Sagar their thing Here's where you could find their shit for that good for him Yes, but who is the woman that was with him because she was really good too and that was along the same vein It was independent thinkers. They were talking about things honestly.

They were objective. They were breaking down the facts. There was no bullshit rhetoric. It was, you know, I liked it. I was like, okay, you know, I will watch this too. This seemed good too. I have a prediction for you, Joe. Okay, they'll do their own podcast now?

No, I think Rising, as it currently exists, is going to fail. Because of these new people? Yes. Well, I think it'll bring Ryan back and whoever that girl was. I think they're doomed because Rising was Crystal and Sagar's baby. They came up with it. And now they're just trying to plug people into those spots to play the role of what should be Crystal and should be Sagar. Oh, so it's like when Doug Stanhope and I took over the man show.

100%. It's exactly like that. But you guys are super talented. They wanted us to be something very different than we wanted. That's exactly right. When you go to that, what is the woman's name? All I can find is that it was the same girl that was just on the screen, Emily. It was Emily?

Okay. That's all I can find. I only watched one video. My memory sucks. That's Emily. She was really good with Ryan, too. They were both good together. I think they switched the woman two or three times, and the guy has gone from Ryan Grimm to now Colin.

And Colin's not good? Well, Colin and whoever he was talking to in the video, I saw it when I watched it, and they were saying it's an outrage that the whistleblower leaked this stuff on the billionaires. I was like, I'm done. Click out. So do you think that was like someone brought that to them and said this is what I want you guys to talk about? No. There was a different

co-host. I'm trying to find it. I still can't find it though, but there was someone else. Okay. I'm sorry, what was your question? Do you think that someone gave them talking points? No, no, no. I think that That's the kind of person he is. The way old media works is, you know, people are applying for jobs and they're regular people and they have some background in politics. But do they have the same sort of passion and independence and ideology as Crystal and Sager?

No. Crystal and Sager are super unique. Right. They've really thought through all these things. They really have strong positions. And that's why their dynamic is so good as well is that, you know, they are coming from a place where they really believe something. And, you know, you could sniff it from a mile away when somebody is really just sort of playing the role. And so now you have more of a, I would say, a partisan Democrat and a partisan Republican that are going to fill the seats for Kristalln Sager, whereas Kristalln Sager are, I would argue,

more populist left and populist right. So the populism is the thing that's really the key ingredient and the fact that they're just original and intelligent in their own respect. Interesting. They definitely have great chemistry together. It's funny when someone tries to recreate things, right? Like when someone says, we're going to make our version of that thing. But actual natural dynamics, things that just exist and they're just they come together nice. You can't really recreate those things

very easily. It's very difficult. Who could take your place? I'll answer. Nobody can. Nobody can. You made it because you're Joe Rogan. People, when they want to watch your podcast, there's not something like close enough that can scratch the itch. They want your podcast. Someone could figure out how to do what I'm doing. They would never, ever, ever be able to recreate the monumental success that you've created.

There's no way. None. I don't even know what I did. That's the fucking hilarious part. That's part of the appeal too, is that everybody knows you're a regular dude and they love that. There's not an ounce of fakery in you and in order to recreate it with somebody else, it's by definition fake. Yeah, but someone

could be themselves. Yeah, but it wouldn't be Joe Rogan experience. It would be the Bob Fucknut experience. Bob Fucknut might be a good guy. Don't count out Bob Fucknut. Tremendous porn star.

I want there to be, I bet. That's a great name for a porn star. It's like Tommy Segura. Got anything? No? Can't find her? She's the only other person that's existed. I think it might be her. I think the gal had glasses. I don't remember though.

But anyway, whoever the two of them were, they were good. And I was like, hoping they sucked. And I was like, actually, this is good. I just think, I want more things that are good to watch. My stance on stand-up comedy is exactly the same way. I'm a giant supporter of stand-up. I love it.

I want to help people. I want more people to do it. I'd say you're honest, and I mean this, I think you're one of the most open-minded people I've ever met. Thank you. You have very little fuck like, fuck off in you. I got a little fuck off, but my fuck off is for fuckery. You know, when people just, when it's like openly horse shit, like, come on.

If someone's like, you know, like fucking psychics or something like that, you got to meet my reader. Like, get the fuck out of here. My reader? I've had people say that to me, my psychic reader. Let her read your cards. I'm like, no. Tarot cards?

No, I'm not going to let her, I'm not going to let her read my cards. That reminds me of Miss Cleo. Remember Miss Cleo in the 1990s? Sure. Didn't Dionne Warwick have a show like Psychic Friends Network? Wasn't there something like that? Was it Dionne Warwick? Was it, right?

Yeah. Dionne Warwick, the amazing singer, had the Psychic Friends Network. That's so weird. He was a singer and he did that? A woman. Dionne Warwick. He was a singer and he did that? A woman. Dionne Warwick. Do you know who Dionne? No.

Do you know the way to San Jose? I know that song, yes. Yeah. Psychic Friends Network. 1992. That's Dionne Warwick. Oh my God. Yeah.

Look at that. Dionne Warwick would sit you down with a bunch of people that were lying and they would pretend that they knew things and they would sit there. Oh, there's Linda Georgian. Oh, my God. Yeah, that guy is psychic, and she's psychic. Oh, these are people from One Life to Live and Another World. So there's soap opera stars that were like,

this psychic changed the way I do my readings. Now when I play my character. The voice! The voice is really good. Let me hear that. Give me some of that. Go back. That voice is...

Be the end of our relationship. I mean, it's just going to ultimately destroy... No, no, no. Go back. Go back. I need to hear what this fucking nonsense is. Here would one of our psychics have to say about daytime TV's hottest couple. Is this going to be the

end of our relationship? I mean, is this going to ultimately destroy our... Who asked for that? Imagine that's the commercial. She's like, you asked for that? What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't you know we're going to be together forever? You're such an asshole, Mark. Oh my god.

How the fuck did you ask the psychic something you already know? We're going to be together forever, right? God damn it. First of all, 90s infomercials are glorious. How about Dionne Warwick's hair? How about that? That was something special. You never heard Dionne Warwick sing? No.

The song that you just sang, I've heard before, but I didn't know who the fuck sang it. I didn't know her name. It's a beautiful voice. It's always sad when someone's genuinely talented and you see them wind up doing something like that. You're like, ugh. You're just ripping people off. Just stealing. That is bad.

Because it really is. The Psychic Within. Oh, my God. Oh, boy. What is that, a game? It's a psychic kit. Oh, my God. Oh, no.

Do you remember? It must be really old. No, Dionne. Someone still has it. It's only $21.95, Joe God. Oh, no. Do you remember? No, Dion. It's only $21.95, Joe. I feel like we should order it. Contains a full-color video featuring Linda Georgian. That's that lady. Go back to that so I can see what that said there. Full-color video featuring Lisa Georgian, Linda Georgian, and the master psychics.

Oh, look. They're taking in two eyes how about they spelled taking wrong i don't trust them they're tacking how about that how about they're taking you step by step but they're spelling taking with an extra i nobody even caught that what if we go back to that in a week and they'll go they're talking shit about us the psychic within do you remember crossing over with john edward Nobody even caught that. What if we go back to that in a week and they'll go, oh, they were talking shit about us. We need to change the wording. The psychic within. Do you remember crossing over with John Edward?

Oh, that guy was a real charlatan, right? Oh, man. You know, I think he got fired when he tried to do it with like 9-11 victims. I don't know if I'm, am I right about that, Jamie? I think that's what happened. But I'm going off memory on that one. Oh, my God. Yeah. The audacity. Oh, I know think that's what happened. I'm going off memory on that one. Oh my god. The audacity. Oh, I know. That's what happened. The network was like, you're doing

what? Oh my god. The audacity. That guy's terrible, man. That sounds about correct. Wow. That was all memory, too. It makes sense, though. I mean, if you're a thief, you're a thief. That's all they are. They're just thieves. They're just doing it in a different way they're stealing

and lying in a different way it's just instead of like breaking into someone's car they're pretending they have an earpiece in and they're pretending they can sense where you know your childhood trauma comes from you lost your father when you were 10 oh my god I did some of these people

were caught less than two months after it wow imagine that it Wow, imagine that Holy fucking shit Imagine that, he was like, I know what we're gonna do We're gonna capitalize on this This is gonna take our show to the next level Fuck They caught one of these guys, remember, I think the guy's name is Peter Popoff

He used to have all these infomercials at night Where he's like, buy the holy water and it'll save ya Oh And then they caught him. I think somebody did this thing where it was like a sting operation. He had an earpiece in and he was listening to people and he was like telling them stuff that they thought he couldn't know, but he heard it earlier. Is that him?

Look at that fuck. He looks evil, this fucker. Yeah, he definitely looks gross. Whoa. Wow. He looks demonic. He does, doesn't he? Like a ghost.

Oh, you know what I tried watching last night? Free Miracle Spring Water. Oh, they say free. I thought they charged for it. They have before. I tried watching last night that I've never seen before. I was alone in the house and I had to shut it off. The Conjuring.

Never saw that. No. Never saw it? No. Dude, just the previews alone. I was like, fuck this. Too scary? I ordered it and I said, before I watch this, let me just watch the preview.

And I watched the preview. I'm like, nope, not gonna do it. It's gotta be bad then, huh? No, it's good. I heard it's really scary. I mean, bad as in really scary. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But bad in that sense is good, right? Well, not for me. It scares the fuck out of you. You don't like those kind of movies. No. I mean, I'll watch them every now and

then, but I'm a little bitch. I don't want to be a little bitch. You know what you should see? I talked about this the other day on the podcast, but you really should watch this and smoke a little pot before you watch it. This documentary, The Anthropocene, about the human race and the impact the human race has on the earth and what we've done in terms of strip mining. I want to see that. It's really vivid and shot with drones a lot of it. So you get this overall perspective of the mass of some of these mines and, you know,

where they're tearing down these old churches to make room for more mines. And it's like wild shit. And I was sitting at home by myself going, whoa, it just gives this sense of ominous doom. Like human beings left unchecked would just continue to destroy everything in front of them. I want to watch that. It's heavy.

That was Netflix or Amazon Prime? I watched it on iTunes. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I don't know if it's on Netflix. There was one you mentioned the other night. I don't remember what it was, but it was something that sounded really interesting. Last night when we were hanging out? Yeah, I think so.

It might have been that. Was it about? No, it wasn't that. It was something else that you said Amazon Prime it was on. Oh, that's Holy Hell. What's that one about? Holy Hell, that's the cult. on. Oh, that's holy hell. What's that one about? Holy hell's that's the cult Oh that right. That's the thing. Yeah, I gotta make a list of this stuff

That one sounds that one sad is it? Yeah, that's sad because the people that were in that cult They're still around some of them that one of the the cult headquarters was in Austin for a while Now they're in Hawaii and they had these people that were in that cult that are now like, you know One lady was a dog walker. And you can see this looking around like, I've lost my whole life. Like her whole life is gone. Like she lived her whole life in this bullshit cult. And now here she is, 50 years old, just trying to like piece it all together.

The sunk cost fallacy is real. When people at some point know that what they believe or what they're doing is bullshit, but they just can't get out of it because they're like, I've invested years and years and years into this. How can I get out of it? That's a very real thing that people deal with. I recognized that in martial arts when I was a kid because the martial art that I was doing that I was really good at was Taekwondo, and it turned out that's not a really good one to learn. Right. When you learned about jujitsu is when your mind changed. Yeah. Well, for me, it was boxing and Muay Thai. When I started boxing, I thought I had a way distorted perception of what I could do with my hands. I was like, I know how to punch.

But I was getting murdered in the boxing gym. And I was like, oh, no, this is terrible. Especially when I couldn't kick guys. Kick boxing, I could kind of hold my own because I was a good kicker. But then when leg kicks were introduced and then boxing was introduced, I was like, I wasted a lot of time. Turns out it wasn't necessarily true because once I learned all those other things, then the taekwondo was a huge advantage because I have all this power from kicking and I have this ability to use my legs.

And you get leg dexterity from taekwondo that's really difficult to get from other things because you're constantly throwing kicks and you're very rarely throwing punches. So a lot of people, like there's a girl named Michelle Watterson. She calls herself the Karate Hottie. It's hilarious. But she has that kind of karate leg dexterity similar to Taekwondo leg dexterity. Steven Wonderboy Thompson is a top welterweight contender He's got that kind of leg dexterity to where you can do crazy shit with his kicks that most

Martial artists that just start out just doing MMA don't really develop but by itself as a standalone It's not good because it's just too easy to take people down Jujitsu guys you're helpless against them. Yeah, They grab ahold of you, you're strangled. That's the top, right? Jiu-jitsu is the top, would you say? Wrestling is number one, I think, because wrestling can dictate whether or not you can take a person down. And some jiu-jitsu guys are not good at wrestling.

So they can't take you down, and then you could beat them up if you have wrestling because they'll try to clinch with you. And that was Chuck Liddell's thing. Chuck Liddell was a really good wrestler, but he would use it to stand up. He would use it to make sure that you couldn't take him down. So the ability to take someone down is probably the most important thing. But it's all dependent upon how good people are at each individual skill.

But the point being, to just get good at Taekwondo was not good. And it was a real wake-up call for me because they were all brainwashed. All the Taekwondo people were absolutely convinced, all the people that I trained with, was that this was the best martial art because that's what they had dedicated their life to. And I was like, fuck this, I'm out. Even though I had dedicated my whole life to it,

I was only 21, and I was still flexible. I was like, I got to get out of here. My life had still some flexibility to it, so I bailed. But I know that feeling when I was still flexible. I was like, I got to get out of here. My life had still some flexibility to it. So I bailed. But I know that feeling when you're completely committed. But I remember one of the first times I was boxing where I was sitting there with a bloody nose. I just got lit up in a sparring session and I was sitting there going, fuck. You were like, I'm not as good as I thought I was.

Not even close. Wow. Not even close. And it took like a couple of years before I became competent at it. And then the idea was also there was a real problem where professionally there was no avenue in professional Taekwondo. Right. Yeah. And then the avenue in professional kickboxing paid so little. And then I had one of my friends that I was training with that went on to become, he was a New England middleweight champion. He actually became a pretty good pro boxer.

He beat Howard Davis Jr., who was an Olympic gold medalist. He beat Vinny Pazienza. His name was Dana Rosenblatt. He was one of my main sparring partners. And he was also one of the reasons why I stopped doing it. Because I realized he's way more dedicated than I am. I used to be this dedicated, but now I'm seeing this kid and he was a couple of years younger than me. I'm like, I'm quitting. You know, that's, that's one of my favorite things to see though, is somebody who's so dedicated at something because you, there's really just a totally different quality to

like the form of whatever it is that they're doing. If you've ever seen a pro golfer make a golf swing and the sound quality when they hit the ball, if you've ever seen somebody who's, I'm sure if I saw you do some form thing for Taekwondo, I'd be like, Jesus fucking Christ. Like there's no, everything's so efficient. There's zero wasted motion. That's one of my favorite things to see regardless of the sport, regardless of what it is. Because you're watching an art form, really. You're watching somebody at the peak of what it is they do.

With Dana, it was really his dedication. He was so dedicated. I think at the time I was 21. I think he was 18, somewhere around there. Maybe I was 22 and he was 19, something like that. But it was in that same range where it was like he was all in. That was his whole life. And I remember thinking, man, this is not my whole life.

I'm bullshitting myself. Because it was before when I was younger. And I kind of thought I'm still that dude, you know, because I knew I had in my head victories that I'd already achieved and guys I had knocked out. I thought about it in my head. But then the reality of watching someone who was actually living that life and getting up in the morning and running five miles and then eating really healthy and then going to the gym and doing rounds in the bag and then sparring. And I was like, okay, he's more dedicated than me. I gotta get out. Cause I

didn't want to be, you know, like there's a thing about combat sports is different than anything else is that if you're not obsessed, you become a victim. Yeah. Unless you're some genetic freak, like John Jones used to like party and still beat world class fighters. Which is so rare. So rare. That's so fucking rare.

But he also has like a crazy high skill set that he can call upon. You know, and a lot of genetic advantages like long reach and length and stuff like that. Bro, that's racist.

Long reach and length No, you said genetic advantages. I'm joking. Oh. I'm playing around. Well, I don't think it's racist. I'm joking. Oh. I'm playing around. Well, I don't think it's racist. I'm joking, Joe.

Relax. No, you just caught me off guard because I was in the middle of trying to think of what else I was going to say about him. But my point is, when I left Taekwondo, I remember thinking like, God, I dedicated so much of my life to this nonsense. And then here it is, like staring me in the face that I've wasted time. Like, and so someone who joins a cult and really believes that some guy is like the re-embodiment of the Buddha and is in front of you right now bestowing enlightenment. And then you find out, no, he's, you know, find out no he's you know he's actually a

pedophile or he's actually a drug addict or he's actually just a completely delusional psycho con man that's people find that out like deep into these these situations and the people are so fucking malleable and you find this out the reason why i'm bringing this up in relation to this conversation is you find this out with the way people approach parties, political parties, the way they approach lifestyle choices and ideologies, the way they view the world. People get so attached to the tribe that's involved in whatever thing it is, whether it's a political thing or a religious thing, or they get sucked into it. And that is that they take this comfort in that there's others that agree on the same parameters and sets of rules that they do. So I love that you made that point because I have firsthand experience with something about exactly this, and it happened recently.

So on my show, when the former head of the CDC came out and told CNN he thinks that COVID-19 likely came from the lab. He comes out and says that I cover it on my show. And I listened to his whole argument. And then I listened to Sanjay Gupta's response. And basically, my commentary was something along the lines of I have no idea what the fuck happened. But this guy makes a compelling case. And I lean slightly in favor of thinking the lab leak theory is probably true. And then you had people in my own audience. Now, granted, I almost never read the responses because I want to maintain my sanity. But, you know, it got to me somehow that people in my own audience were disagreeing with me. Not a crazy amount, but enough where it was an issue.

It was interesting. And this was over a month ago when it was just starting. Yes. It was when it was the day. The zeitgeist has clearly shifted. Yes, it definitely has. Because the former head of the CDC said it. And again, he was very compelling argument.

And he basically said, we have a virology lab where they study bat coronaviruses right there. Yeah. And the fact that people almost tried to make me feel like I'm making some sort of huge mistake by saying this. Yeah. I mean, it's silly. And really what it broke down to was a few things, not just partisanship and Trump and anti-Trump stuff, but it also came down to there are some people on the left who fear that this is going to be used for a new Cold War against China. And so they feel like you got to be against this up

front to stop the march towards this new Cold War with China, which we shouldn't have. And I mean, listen, my position has been very clear from day one. I lean in favor of thinking that that theory is true, but there's zero political implications to that. I'm 100% against a Cold War with China. And what we're talking about here is an objective, empirical question where we're just looking for what's accurate. The political implications, we can debate those after, and I'll always be on the side of, I don't want to escalate with China, and I don't want to escalate with Russia. But these are separate questions.

We have to be able to tell the truth, even if the truth makes you feel uncomfortable. People are so fucked because of Trump. The way the left has formed their arguments and dug their heels in on certain ideologies where they're not even willing to look at things. It's so fucked. Like, I read something yesterday about that hydroxychloroquine actually has some benefit in treating COVID patients. I was like, what? What?

No. How's that possible? It all became partisan. Right. Like the lab leak. It took five plus months of Trump being out of office for people to go, well, you know, the more we look at it, I mean, I don't know how to say this. The fucking lab is there, Joe.

The idea that we have to dismiss this theory out of hand because Trump said it. The fucking lab is there. What, do we have a cinder block where our brains are supposed to be? We played the Jon Stewart clip yesterday on the podcast. Yeah, that was amazing. I fucking love that guy. So good. I fucking love that guy. And we were talking earlier about how people are mad at him. They were saying you

shouldn't listen to celebrities because of that. He's telling the truth. And it's funny because it's so accurate. He's making fun of the idea that it's impossible. And by the way, there is zero evidence for the natural spillover. Zero. And you know, Crystal made this point, which I thought was brilliant. She was like, people say, oh, it's racist if you talk about the lab leak theory. Doesn't it sound a lot more racist if you say some Chinese people are eating bats and they eat so gross and dirty over there in China that that's actually a slightly more racist theory? I think both implications are preposterous. And I think the idea that it's racist to try to find the origin of a pandemic that killed

millions of people is so fucking stupid that I won't engage in it. And calling it a China virus somehow or another is a problem but calling it the Indian variant is okay? How come it's okay to say the Indian variant? I didn't notice that. That's a good point. How come it's okay to say the African variant?

How come it's okay to say the Brazil variant? How come it's okay to say the Brazil variant? But it's not okay to say the China virus? This is nonsense. This is all nonsense. It's all people just with itchy racist fingers. Bang, racist. Bang, racist. They're just itchy.

Ready to call people racist for anything. And by the way, the funny thing is, I think there was U.S. funding that may have been involved in the research of the bat coronaviruses that could have led to the spread of the nih funded this other organization run by peter dasik and they funded this gain of function research and then when fauci's on tv saying that is absolutely categorically incorrect. We did not fund. You did not sponsor gain of function research. No, you did, though. You did. Yeah, you did.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't you know, that guy. I don't understand the cult around him. I get that the idea was like, oh, he's the science guy and he's in Trump's administration, but he sort of positioned himself against Trump. But liberals made him this fucking hero. Well, I can help you out there. There's video of him early on in the pandemic saying, masks, we don't even

really need them. And then he went on to admit later on, oh, when I said that, it was just because I wanted to save the masks for the frontline workers. So you're admitting you fucking lied! And then you find out in his emails, personal emails, that masks don't work according to him he i mean how many times has he flipped on this shit it's but it's crazy like it's almost like

someone told him hey we have to say masks work but i already said they don't work and so then he had to go back and say oh i was lying because i was saving him from the frontline workers but in his private emails he's saying they don't work. Here's the thing. Can you smell farts? You can. What's going on? What's going on there?

What's getting in there? Listen, what's getting in there? These ones where you could just do this? Are these assholes that have bandanas on? Yeah. Get the fuck out of here. That ain't doing shit. Yeah.

But is it? Here's the other question. But is it? Because the flu's way down. Like maybe, maybe even though you can smell farts, maybe it's blocking some, right? That's the point is the egregious splatter, right? Maybe it's that or maybe it's just the actual viral load that you take in. Like maybe when you're breathing through that stupid thing, it takes enough of it out so that your body's immune system has a better shot of fighting it off so maybe there's a bunch of people with masks on that got close to folks and it was but it was

wasn't enough whereas like no masks right close talking to you you're getting the full blast well they also say that outs there's like next to no evidence that it spreads outside almost at all. And the reason is the dispersion. When you're indoors and you're talking to somebody, it's closed quarters and you can get that splatter on. Meanwhile, at Disneyland in fucking California, you still have to wear a mask outside or they yell at you. It's weird how it changes from place to place

and it changes from store to store. It's really California. California is the most egregious. It's so ridiculous there. All my friends come here and they're like, no one's wearing masks. I go, yeah, it'sious. It's so ridiculous there. All my friends come here and they're like, no one's wearing masks. I go, yeah, it's over. It's over here.

It's been over here for months. You can go hang out. Yeah. And the other thing is, like, nominally the idea was once people get vaccinated, if they go somewhere and say, I've been vaccinated, it's like, okay, then you're totally fine. But nobody even asked for the card. You know what I mean?

It's just whatever the rules are, they are, and it's totally separate from whether or not you got the vaccine. I also don't think there's a database. I don't think there's like a real accurate database of who's been vaccinated. It looks like the card was from some dude's truck in a back alley. It might be. Here's your card. Yeah.

I was reading into that. In California, there's rumor. I don't know if it's rumors or what, but they're talking about making some sort of verification. When I read it, they do have a database, only for California, though. Yeah, in California. California is dealing a vaccine passport, essentially, without calling it a vaccine passport. That's what it sounded like.

How do you do people out of state? Because I was wondering that for New York State, too. I don't know. You have to go get a test there or something. I don't think the states can make laws about interstate travel, because I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court says you can't have borders between states effectively. But didn't they have a thing when New York was saying you can't go in there unless you have either a COVID negative test within 24 hours? So a bunch of states have this thing where they say like waiting periods or whatever like you're alluding to now. But I don't think that's enforceable because one of the rules.

It is in Hawaii. Oh. And that's enforceable because one of the rules- It is in Hawaii. Oh. And that's a state. That's true. But maybe it's just the lower 48. I don't know. Maybe. Because it's an island.

The thing about Hawaii is it is separate. And the other unfortunate thing about Hawaii is a lot of overweight folks. And that's the number one comorbidity factor, even more so than old age. Whoa. Whoa. Yeah. The only thing that's more than overweight is vitamin D deficiency, which is crazy. Vitamin D deficiency is actually more of a comorbidity than being overweight. Wow.

Yeah, it's nuts. That's fucking crazy. Vitamin D is a weird one, man. You get a lot of that from sun, right? Yeah, that's the best way to get it. The best way to get it is from sunlight. But you got to be out in the sun a lot. And that's the thing about northern climates. I was listening to this doctor give this lecture. And he was saying, there's no such thing as flu season. He's like, really? He goes, there is. But why do you think flu season is always in the

winter? Well, it's because it's a vitamin D deficiency season. He's like, no one's outside. He's like, you're not outside. You're covered up with clothes. You're in and out of the outside quickly, especially if you're in northern climates or if you're in the northeast where everything's covered with clouds. He's like, you're not getting any vitamin D. Dude. It's amazing.

I have firsthand experience with what you're talking about because I've always said I'm way less happy in the winter and in the fall in New York. Seasonal affective disorder. But come the spring and the summer, I fucking love it. I feel great. Well, there's a reason why it feels good to be in the sun is your body is giving you a reward for soaking up that vitamin D. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is what we want because it's a hormone. It's not even a vitamin. That's one of the weird things that Rhonda Patrick explained to me. Dr. Rhonda Patrick was saying that it's actually a hormone.

Whoa. Yeah, and that you think of it as a vitamin because you could buy it in a store. But it's responsible for so many different things, not just your immune system. It is greatly beneficial for your immune system, but it's also responsible for brain function and muscle growth and all sorts of other things too.

But then if you're in it too much, you could get skin cancer though, right? Yes. So isn't there obviously a balancing thing? That's radiation. Oh, radiation. Yeah, but it's also melanin. Black people are protected because of melanin, but because of that, they have more of an issue with vitamin D.

That's one of the reasons why black people and brown people were disproportionately affected by COVID in a lot of places. Because my friend who's a doctor said that when he was doing his practice in New York, that he was testing a lot of black folks and they were like, unrecognizable levels of vitamin D, you couldn't measure it. And he was like like this is a giant problem. He goes because When you have dark melanin in your skin you can go outside or when you have a dark pigment rather You can go outside and you can take in all that sun rays because your body's protected Because obviously their ancestors came from Africa But if you're one of those people like your ancestors came from Scotland the reason why they're so white is you're basically like

You're a solar panel for vitamin D because there's no fucking sunlight so you got super pale so that what little time your skin was out there you sucked up as much vitamin D's it's your body craving for vitamin D yeah what it is which is really wild that vitamin D is really what dictates the color of human being's skin. It's fucking wild. That is wild. Can you supplement it effectively? So it works when you supplement it. Yes, it does.

Because some things you take in and it doesn't even absorb the right way. You can definitely supplement effectively with vitamin D and it has a big impact. There's studies that show a big impact on the immune system. But it's best when you get it from the sunlight. Gotcha. But really what you should do is both. Just to make sure that your bases are covered, you should supplement with a certain amount of it. You know, some people say 5,000 IUs a day.

Some people say more. But supplement with a decent amount and then get blood work done. Find out where your blood levels are at. You really should do that. Everybody should do that like every few months for anything anyway. Just find out if you're healthy. It's not hard to do. But that's one thing of many things.

People should be supplementing with a host of different vitamins. It makes a giant impact on your health. It really does. And for the longest time, asshole doctors, and when I say asshole, I don't mean they're really mean. I just mean they don't know what they're talking about. They say, well, you get whatever you need from a balanced diet and you see there with their paunchy gut their fucking skin hanging off their face like bitch you don't have a balanced diet

what are you saying balanced diet you tell me how you're getting vitamin d from a balanced diet stupid like they don't have any education in nutrition so what they're you know if you're a general practitioner the amount of time you spend in medical school learning nutrition is very small. And it happened decades ago. And the idea that these guys are supposed to be on point today with all of the research, you need to talk to someone who's like a legit, bona fide, right now nutritionist. Someone who's been studying all these different peer-reviewed papers. There's so much going on. Every time Dr. Rhonda comes in here and she reads off shit, you're like, Jesus. She's doing it all off the top of her head and she's rattling off these

statistics and information, all these different studies. And now we know about this. Now we know about that. And so you should mix this with your diet. And this has had a profound impact on cognitive decline. I'm amazed at how much the weather affects my mood. I'm always amazed by it. Look how white you are, bro. You're pretty white. Yeah. Yeah.

Take that vitamin D. But what I was going to say is when I did supplement it, it didn't seem to work last winter. So I need to give it another shot when it's season. Well, how much were you supplementing with? I don't remember the amount. Well, you should supplement with that, but you should supplement with a lot of other things.

There's some evidence that vitamin K accentuates vitamin D in its efficacy somehow or another. I'm not sure how. I think the evidence is... That's an interesting one. I'm not sure if that's been proven, but a lot of people believe it's the case. I think I learned that from Dr. Rhonda, too. But fish oil, really good. Changing your diet. Changing your diet to eliminate most inflammatory foods.

Drinking a shitload of water. Don't tell me I've got to give up Taco Bell. That's bullshit. Are you a Taco Bell guy? I'm a fucking fast food guy. Give me whatever you've got, bro. That's a problem. That stuff's a problem.

I think it's a solution. What's your number one go-to? Oh, shit. It really depends on the mood. But yeah, Gordita Crunch from Taco Bell is phenomenal. You're really eating that? Of course. But you're so smart.

Why are you eating that filler and all that? Because it's tasty as fuck. You know the meat in Taco Bell doesn't... What is it? What is going on with the beef in Taco Bell? There was like an analysis of what's in there. I don't think it's Taco Bell that's the problem. I think there's other places, but I think Taco Bell is beef.

Listen, it's all beef. I don't know about the quality, but it's beef, yeah. Do you prefer Taco Bell over a legit Mexican restaurant? If so, I'm going to shut your mic off. Well, no, but there's only one reason why I'm saying no, because I had a place recently that was this legit Mexican restaurant. It is the best Mexican food I've ever had by far and away. Where'd you go? What's the name?

It's in D.C. I don't remember the name of the place, but it was fucking phenomenal. Bro, there's a place near my old studio in Woodland Hills called The Big Burrito. I could say it now that I'm not there anymore, because I didn't want to tell people because I didn't want it to blow up. Because it was so good and it was so legit you go there and they got Mexican soap operas playing nobody speaks

English and the food is off the hook oh my god you ate there right how good really good I yeah but I'm all I'm in this I can't fight against this either what do you mean I grew up in the 90s and marketing of all this shit is ingrained in my blood. So you can't escape the grip of Taco Bell? Every so often you gotta get it delivered. They could release a study saying Taco Bell is made with camel anus and I'd be like

that gordita crunch is banging. If you shoot a camel you should eat the whole thing including the anus. That's what I think. I'm a nose to tail kind of guy. There you go. I ate liver for breakfast this morning. Did you really? Elk liver. Yeah, I eat it all the time. How did it taste? Tastes good. I like it. Really? I like it. It's really good for you. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if the way I eat is the right way to eat, but it's the right way to eat for me. Yeah, man. Whatever you want to do. I'm not a Taco Bell guy. I'm out there eating elk liver.

Yeah, man. Whatever you want to do. I'm not a Taco Bell guy. I'm out there eating elk liver. Yeah. I'll continue eating- And bacon. With nacho cheese. I had elk liver and bacon.

I had bacon this morning. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Do you like Five Guys burgers? Oh, fuck yeah, I like Five Guys burgers. Thank you. Now we're friends again.

See, my hierarchy is Five Guys number one. Me too. Thank you. Give me some knuckles on that. All these fucking haters. All you In-N-Out losers. In-N-Out's pretty good. That's my number two.

I was just going to say, it's five guys, In-N-Out, and then Whataburger. Whataburger is not on my list. Well, you know what the problem is, Joe? I had it with the fucking mustard, and I'm like, who fucking puts a mustard on a burger? It's pretty good. No. All of them. Yeah, get rid of the mustard, and then it's better.

Yeah, you have to. I mean, every burger I eat has mustard on it. Oh. No, see, now I'll hit you with a New York thing. I'm curious if you'll like this. Go ahead. Ketchup on a bacon, egg, and cheese. Oh, yeah.

I like that. That tastes good. Some people make fun of me for that. I'm like, are you fucking kidding? Everybody in New York has it. You know what's better, though? What's that? Mayonnaise and hot sauce.

I like mayo. I'm not the biggest hot sauce guy. Should I give it a shot on what? On a big egg and cheese? Yeah, but you're a guy who's not into spicy, though. Not much. I can take a little bit. Not much.

I lather the mayonnaise on, and I fuck that thing up with some habanero sauce. Woo! And then when you're eating it, it just squirts in your mouth with all the yolk, and then the habanero sauce and the mayonnaise. You earned the right for me to try some weird shit that you enjoy because I like your fucking CBD drink. Pretty good, right? And I never would have thought I would have liked it. I know.

It's not bad, right? It's like pineapple and jalapeno. I was like, what the fuck is this? I took one sip. I'm like, hmm. It was a ridiculous idea because when John and I, John from Kill Cliff, were talking about trying to design a flavor, I was like, tell me if this is possible. Because he was like, we need to come up with a signature drink for you. I go, okay, okay.

Can you do a spicy drink? Because there used to be a drink that I would buy. And I know we found this once upon a time, Jamie. I forget the name of this company, but I would get it at this local liquor store. I bought a bottle of it once, and I became obsessed with it, and I would drink it like crazy when I would write, and it had like skulls and shit on the bottle,

and it had like spice in it, like capiscum. Is that how you say it? No idea. It had spice, and some of them were blue like the drink was blue and you but it was really good but it was spicy and I was like this is the craziest soda I've ever drank in my life and I remember the memory of that I was like wonder if they could do like a jalapeno pineapple like a little bit of spicy but a little bit sweet so fucking So fucking good. Everybody needs to understand.

I know that sounds questionable as fuck, but when you take a sip, you're like, you nailed it. It's pretty good. No, it's great. And as a cocktail mixer, oh, a little bit of tequila. Come on, son. That sounds great. Yeah. Have you ever had jalapenos with meat?

No. That's what you need to try. Jalapenos and elk. If I have you guys over for dinner someday, I'll cook up some elk. I'd love to try that. Sliced jalapenos. Jalapenos and elk if I have you guys over for dinner someday I'll cook up some elk. I'd love to try sliced jalapenos jalapenos and elk why not I'll give that a shot You don't like the heat though. No, I mean jalapenos bring the heat it are they are they that bad? Some of them are rough. Okay. Yeah, that's your whole mouths on fire to no-go for me It's got to be it's got to be moderate. I could take some moderate heat. Jalapenos are probably the most wildly inconsistent pepper. See, I've definitely had some that have not been super hot, and those are okay. But when I get a

hot one- It's weird. In that Mexican joint that I was telling you about, they would have pickled jalapenos and onions on the side, and you'd get those on the side. And you'd eat one, you're like, delicious. And then you eat another one, like immediately. Like I don't understand it. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm surprised that doesn't punish your asshole later in the day. It doesn't.

That's amazing. Because I know a lot of people, that's how it reacts. No. I guess I just eat a lot of hot. I eat spicy food almost every day. Whoa. I never would have guessed that. Yeah.

Pretty much every day. Here's what I do. I'll cook up a bunch of meat, and then I have leftovers, and then when I eat the leftovers, I take a plate, I pour a bunch of habanero sauce on the plate, and then I take slices of meat, I dip it in the habanero sauce, and I eat it cold. Whoa.

Wow. So I eat a lot of hot food. That's a man shit right there. That's what I describe that as. Well, my little 11-year-old daughter does it too. Really? Oh, my God. You got her on Onnit supplements too.

No, not yet. I don't want to fuck her up. Hey, dude, we did three hours already. Awesome. I had a great time, man. Time flies by with you. It does. It's always a pleasure being here.

Always a pleasure visiting. It's a regular talk. It's on YouTube. Don't let them fuck him over with the algorithm. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. And everybody check out Crystal Kyle and Friends, too. That's my other new podcast with Crystal Kyle. And how do they get that one?

Yeah, so it's free on every audio platform, every podcast platform. But if you want the video, it's $5 a month on our sub stack, and you get it a day early. So that's how that works. What format does the video come in? It's an unlisted YouTube link, so if you pay $5 a month, you get it. And we's how that works. And what format does the video come in? It's an unlisted YouTube link. So if you pay $5 a month, you get it. And we've had phenomenal guests. We've had, like I said earlier, the CIA's worst nightmare came on our show, David Talbot. He was awesome. We had Noam Chomsky. We had Cornel West. How was Noam Chomsky? He obviously did it remote, huh?

He did it remote. Yeah. He's so soft-spoken these days. He's so soft-spoken, and he's old as hell, but he's still got it. He's still with it mentally. It's kind of amazing when you talk to him, and you realize that this guy's almost 100 years old, living legend. Wow. I asked him about his legacy or something, and he was like, I don't give a fuck about my legacy. That was basically his response. I don't think about that shit. He clearly doesn't, too.

He's not bullshitting. And I was like, that's why we all love you. No. Because we know when you talk, it's something you really believe, and you're not thinking of anything personal or about your ego. I'll go on a kick where I'll watch old YouTube videos of Chomsky, like YouTube videos from the 60s and the 70s. Him and Buckley. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Those were amazing. So good. He made and Buckley. Yeah. Oh my God. Those are amazing. So good. He made William Buckley look like a dunce. He said behind the scenes, Buckley was pissed. Buckley was pissed off air. Do you remember, you've seen that thing with Gore Vidal. Yes. What is it called? You showed it for me. You showed it to me. It's a great documentary. I forget what the name of it is. You remember the name, Jamie? Oh, no, I was talking about the thing where Gore Vidal was yelling at somebody. You showed me a video of that.

There was an argument that included Gore Vidal. Oh, Buckley and Gore Vidal. Yes. Well, Buckley yelled at Gore Vidal because Gore Vidal made him look stupid. And Buckley, he said- There. Best of enemies. Best of enemies.

So this Best of Enemies is about television debates that were going on during, I guess it was the 60s. Really interesting. Yeah. Great, great stuff. Yeah, that was really cool. I definitely got to watch it. If there's a Gore Vidal documentary, I'll definitely check that out too because I haven't seen that yet. Well, I've only seen that one.

I don't know if there's another one. But Gore Vidal versus Buckley was great. But I think Chomsky versus Buckley was even better. Because Chomsky never resorted to attacks or insults or anything. He would just correct you. Yeah, he's a serious intellectual. He's the best. And back then, when he was young and full of piss and vinegar, he was so good at just breaking down what's wrong with these arguments.

That's right. I would go on these long, sometimes I would spend like four hours just watching Chomsky videos. You and me both, brother. Yeah. You and me both. All right. Thank you, my friend. Always good to see you.

Pleasure, man. And that's it, everybody. Bye-bye.