The Joe Rogan Experience - #1675 - Quentin Tarantino

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Quentin Tarantino is a writer, producer, and director. Tarantino's novelization of his Oscar-winning film "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood" is available now.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. Oh, my pleasure, mate. I've been a gigantic fan forever, so I'm like a little kid in a candy store today. Oh, I'm glad, man.

We met each other at the comic store, I think, maybe once or twice, actually. Yeah, at least once, for sure. Dude, you had a wild ride. I mean, it's almost, your movie career is almost 30 years old now. Yeah, exactly. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's actually wild to think I've been doing it this long and still playing the game at this level. It's pretty cool. Well, yeah. It's been such a unique ride for you too, right? Like, Well, yeah. It's been such a unique ride for you too, right? Like you wrote, let me get this straight.

You wrote True Romance. You sold it and you used the money from True Romance to fund Reservoir Dogs. Well, that was going to be the idea. Right. The idea was. Pull this microphone up to your face. There we go. You can move it around so you don't have to lean into it. Cool.

There you go. That was going to be the idea was I was selling True Romance. I was going to get like $30,000. And I'd never had $30,000 in my life. I was a minimum wage kid. I was only like making like $150 a week. At a video store. At a video store, a video archives in Manhattan Beach.

And so the thing about it was, so that was the kind of plan. Well, I finally got some money, then I'll shoot on 16 millimeter, this thing that I can shoot in like in a muffler shop or something, which was Reservoir Dogs. And I showed it to the guy who ended up becoming my partner on the film, Lawrence Bender. And he read it, and he was like, Quentin, this is a pretty good script. I mean, we could actually get real money and make a real movie. And I was like, no, man, I've been hearing that for years. No one's going to give me money to make a movie.

I haven't done shit. It's just not going to work out. It's just not going to work out. I don't buy it. Now that I've actually got some money in my hand, I'm going to do it this way and take it on the film festival circuit. And then he was like, okay, I'll tell you what, how about this? Give me three months. Just give me three months. If at the end of three months,

I can't get some interest to make it like a real movie, then okay, then I'll help you and we'll make the little home movie version. And so, you know, so I gave him, he paid me a hundred dollars. I gave him an option for three months. And in three months, we've got actually somebody who was, not the person who ended up doing it, but we got somebody who was interested in doing it. That would have like given us like 600,000. And then we ended up making a deal with Live Entertainment, which was sort of the home video home of Coralco, the big Rambo studio. And they gave us like $1.3 million to make the movie. When you sit back and you talk about that today, does it even seem real? I mean, that you really were working in that video store and that you really did write that? I mean, it's got to be a bizarre whirlwind adventure that your world your life has been well it was like well in a way the

working at the video store was the part that was real or you know everything else was like that was the fairy tale yeah um i kept waiting for it all to kind of fall apart at some point yeah this movie that's going to happen is going to fall apart. Either it's like it all falls through or the company changes their mind or I get fired while I'm doing it and that's the end of that. And I had had friends who had gotten some places and then things went bad. So I kept waiting for things to go bad. But then they didn't. And then I had like at a certain point I realized, well, they're not going to fire me because the actors really love me. The actors wouldn't allow them to fire me.

The actors would walk. So I go, OK, I guess I'm pretty safe as far as that's concerned. But it was more like a situation where up until 91, up until I did Reservoir Dogs, any luck that I had was either no luck or bad luck. Everything was always just a big buildup to a horrible letdown. In your life or in your career? In my life. In my career, but probably my life, too. All right.

And then all of a sudden, just as bad as everything went up until that time was as good as it went for the next six or seven years it literally just you know they say you know the you know pendulum swings both ways well eventually after almost my 20s you know all of a sudden the pendulum starts swinging the other way and everything worked out it was kind of amazing well you're you're a unique guy. I mean, I don't think I have to tell you that. You have a very intense perspective on filmmaking and the films that you produce are so uniquely Tarantino. You know, like when I went to see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, me and Dave Chappelle and the whole crew, Donnell Rollins. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We did it at two o'clock in the morning, rented out a theater after a show we did in Tacins. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We did it at 2 o'clock in the morning,

rented out a theater after a show we did in Tacoma. Oh, no shit. What a great way to say it. It was awesome. Yeah, we did a show in Tacoma, and then after we did the show, we went to the theater and saw it. Spoiler alert,

one of the most violent scenes at the end, while Brad Pitt is smashing this woman's head, I'm thinking, there's not a whole lot of dudes who can get away with this movie. Like, you're kind of grandfathered in. Yeah, I heard you say that once before. You know, because I'm like,

if somebody else made this movie, I don't think they would allow it. I think that there would be massive outrage, but it's so Tarantino-esque. We are talking about, like, three of the most bloodiest, violent killers of the 20th century. Yeah, yeah. I think their own madness, grandfathers, their face being bashed in.

Yeah, I guess you can make that argument, but it's just, you know, like I watched Death Proof the other day. Yeah, yeah. And it's another one. Like there's scenes in that movie that you're like, what the fuck? You know, like you have so many what the fuck moments in your films. It's one of the things that people loved about them. You know you're not going to go to your film and have some esoteric, interesting, deep, long, possibly boring movie about childhood and trauma. No, it's going gonna be wild shit yeah wild shit and gunfire and fucking car accidents and people are gonna die

and they're gonna die in horrific ways yeah and that is a signature of your films but it's it's uniquely you you know it's like you know a person can play guitar Gary Clark jr. right he plays guitar you could hear a couple licks and go, I think that's Gary Clark. Or I think that's Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix. Your films, somehow or another, you're in there. Your fucking DNA gets in those movies. Well, you know, it's funny because I've been thinking a lot about this. Because actually, the guy I wrote Pulp Fiction with is a guy named Roger Avery

and we were both I love that guy yeah he's a great guy Killing Zoe is fucking fantastic absolutely I produce that you know

so Roger and me worked at Video Archives together and we're actually getting ready to start a podcast together

yeah it's gonna be called the Video Archives Podcast Show and we'll just take one movie from that era, the 80s or the 90s, during the time of the store, or the 70s, the time of the store, and just kind of

examine it, and it'll be us, and then if there's a guest, they'll be examining it too. They're a customer. We just kind of talk about stuff. But one of the things that was really kind of interesting that I think goes along with what you were saying is I found myself going back over the movies that was really kind of interesting that I think goes along with what you were saying is I found myself going back over the movies that we were kind of nutsing out over back when we all worked at the video store in the 80s. Now, the 80s, to me, the 80s and the 50s were the worst

time for movies ever because it was just this kind of politically correct time. Now, in the 50s, it was different because that was just society was that. In the 80s, it was self- kind of politically correct time. Now, in the 50s, it was different because that was just society. In the 80s, it was self-censorship was going on. What started that? Well, it was just the rise of political correctness. After the 70s, where everything was just go as far as you can, then all of a sudden, everything got watered down. In the 70s, you had movies where it's like characters weren't necessarily the hero.

They were fucked up, but they were interesting characters. And you sit down and you follow them, whether it be Travis Bickle or Charlie Rain in Rolling Thunder or Joe, Peter Boyle's character in Joe. They weren't the heroes, but you could even have heroes and they could die meaninglessly at the end. weren't the heroes, but you could even have heroes and they could die meaninglessly at the end. That was actually considered a commercial ending back in the 70s because it just shows how you can't win. Everything's fucked. You just can't win in America. It's just the way it is. You go and you fight in Vietnam, you survive Vietnam and you get shot in a liquor store during a holdup. Everything was cynical. Then all of a sudden in the 80s, all that was washed away. And the most important thing about a character was that they were likable. And that was the, every character had to be likable. And the audience had to like everybody.

And even a movie that pushed the envelope and tried to do chancy things, well, it could do it for about an hour. Then the last 20 minutes would be them literally going back on everything they did the first hour, apologizing it and making everything fine. I'll give you a good example of that. OK, it's just like, OK, the critics always really preferred Bill Murray movies to Chevy Chase movies. However, it does seem as if the point of all the Bill Murray movies is that he's this kind of hip, cool, curmudgeon, smart-ass guy who in the last 20 minutes gets a transformation and becomes this nice guy. Yeah. a transformation and becomes this nice guy. Yeah.

And almost apologizes for who he was the entire movie, the whole rest of the movie before that happened. Groundhog Day, Stripes. Stripes, Groundhog Day, Scrooged, you know, the whole thing. I mean, when, like, for instance, Stripes, how does he go from where Warren Oates kicks his ass, deservedly kicks his ass. He deserves to get belly punched by Warren Oates in that movie. How does he go from being this iconoclastic, I don't give a fuck about anything, I get beat up by Warren Oates, to now he's rallying the troops. And now he's getting their army on during the parade.

And now he's, like, on during the parade. And now he's like leading a secret mission. And same thing with Groundhog Day. I mean, does anybody really think a less sarcastic Bill Murray is a better Bill Murray? I mean, maybe it's better for Andy McDowell, but not for us as the viewer. Yet, yet, Chevy Chase movies don't play that shit. Chevy Chase is the same supercilious asshole at the end of the movie that he is at the beginning. He never changes in his stuff. He's always like a bit of a dick and is always completely sarcastic.

I mean, let's say cast him playing a dope like he is in the vacation movies. But when he's playing like a Chevy character, he never apologizes for who he is, stays that way throughout the whole film. And even if there is a slight change, that's not the whole point of the movie. It's like turning him into a nice, cuddly guy. Have you ever worked with him? No. I'd love to. I'm a gigantic fan of his early work, like the Fletch stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think, and Saturday Night Live, and so many movies. Oh, the whole first season of Saturday Night Live. Pretty much all those early movies. Except for Oh, Heavenly Dog, all those early movies. He seems today to be this really uncomfortable person. It's almost like too many people paid attention to him for too long and it freaked him out like i don't know him yeah but when i see you know stories about him or interviews with him or you know any

any weird controversy that happens with him i'm almost like i think the guy just got overwhelmed yeah and now he's just like get the fuck away from me get the fuck away you know like everything is get the fuck away from me it seems yeah yeah right exactly you. But I'm a big fan of his and he was really handsome for so long. Oh my God, yeah. Really handsome, my God. For a comedian. For a comedian,

especially for a comedian. Yeah, like in Fletch. Yeah. He was beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, and girls loved him. Oh, and foul play and yeah, it was great.

Right, right, right. But he also had, it was a very particularly Chevy Chase style of humor. No, when he hit on saturday night live i was watching it that first season yeah it's like uh by the time he hit when he would show up in a in a in a sketch i mean he was a superstar yeah lauren michaels even said it was like chevy chase had to leave for the show to really become the show or else it would have just become the chevy chase show wow that's

that's amazing that's amazing when you think about the group of talent that he was working with the time yeah this was like the guild of rad in that age they would have all been his backup they would all been his backup band wow there'd been chevy chase and his not ready for primetime players yeah you know he was supposed to play Otter in Animal House. Really? Yeah. You look at it, you can tell it's written for Chevy Chase. Yeah, it seems like it would fit.

Tim Matheson is basically playing Chevy Chase. There's a lot of those films that you try to watch today, and you go, Jesus, I don't know if you could ever do this. There's so many films that you try to watch today. I just watched Superbad the other day. I'm like, man, I don't even know if you could ever do this. Like, there's so many films that you try to watch today. Like, I just watched Superbad the other day. And I'm like, man, I don't even know if you could do Superbad today. And that's not even that long ago. Well, I don't believe in that kind of statement because the thing about it is I think that statement is a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you say it's going to be a problem, it's going to be a problem. All right, because it comes with usually the idea, well, I don't know if they would let you do that. Well, who the fuck is they? Well, you say that as Quentin Tarantino. But if you're Quentin Tarantino in 1991. Well, okay, yeah. Well, I'm Quentin Tarantino in 1991 doing Reservoir Dogs coming off of the 80s, which was the decade of they won't let you do that. That's true.

And I remember like, okay, for instance, I'll give you an example. So I'm working at Video Archives. And now, by the way, that whole horrible time. And by the way, we're going through the 80s part two right now, except there's more of a McCarthy-esque blacklist aspect to it than was in the 80s. The 80s seemed very, people were doing it to themselves. Where here it's, no, no, people are doing it to you. But I remember, okay, so in the 80s, this is only happening in America.

In other countries, they were making bold, wild cinema. The Hong Kong movies were off the fucking chart. Pedro Omodovvar was like making his wild sex comedies. Amazing. Anyway, so Pedro Omotevar had a movie called Matador with Antonio Banderas that came out. Very funny movie. The movie starts, the opening credits is a guy sitting in a chair in his living room with his pants down around his ankles. And he's jerking off. And what he's jerking off to are the most bloody violent scenes in slasher movies.

He's got like all his favorite moments from slasher movies of women getting murdered, all cut together, and he's jerking off. And that's the opening credits. And it's just like there was nothing like that available in America. They're like, oh, my God, this is the wildest shit ever, man. This is amazing. And so I remember I was like sitting at video archives and I was saying, well, I want to do shit like that when I'm making movies.

And then one of the guys said, well, they won't let you, Quentin. And my answer was, well, who's they? Who are they to tell me what I can and can't do, can or cannot do? And at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. I never let they stop me. I did what I wanted to do. And by doing what I wanted to do,

we changed the 90s. The 90s stopped being politically correct. And by doing what I wanted to do, we changed the 90s. The 90s stopped being politically correct. And all of a sudden, like in one year, Reservoir Dogs, El Mariachi, Man Bites Dog, Romeo is Bleeding. I mean, all these like wild, ironic, violent movies started coming out that just didn't exist in 1989. That's so true. And then comes Seven, and then, I mean, it's like we built a bridge, and then everyone followed it.

Everyone went over the bridge. Was there any resistance? Like, when you wrote Reservoir Dogs, and people are going over it, were there any people that wanted to water it down or censor it or say it'd be more marketable if maybe you took certain scenes out? Well, there was – in script form, a lot of the violent stuff just kind of went over their heads because they just kind of saw it as a play. There's violent stuff, but they're just talking about how much talking was in it.

stuff but they was talking about how much how much talking was right but um when we when I finished it and had been on the film festival circuit with it for a year when the when Merrimack's bought it Harvey tried to talk me into cutting the torture scene out the with mr. Mr. Blonde and the guy in the chair. Getting his ear cut off. Yeah. He tried to talk me out of that. And his reasoning was, he might ended up being right. All right. His reasoning was, look, Quentin, this is a movie that anybody can watch.

But with that torture scene, you're going to alienate women they're not going to want to see this so you're literally you're putting your own movie in a little box and but without that scene anybody can go and see this movie

and everybody will enjoy it and and that's kind of actually where I became me because Harvey was used to winning these type of arguments. And he had a bunch of yes men going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, and but because I had actually been on the film festival circuit for an entire year.

One, I saw that he was right because people were always walking out during that scene. Sometimes it would be five. Sometimes it would be 35. All right. They were always walking out because also it's a film festival. You don't exactly know what you're seeing. You read it in the catalog. It sounds interesting. It's not like you're being set up the way you are when a movie

opens theatrically. But I did know that, yeah, no, that was the moment of truth for most people, that scene. But now, I think it's the best scene in the fucking movie. And I spent a year watching it. So, I wasn't buffaloed. And I go, well, you know, it's that movie.

It's what the movie is. And you may be right, but I don't care. This is the movie and it has that scene. And Harvey realized he wasn't going to get his way and he's used to getting his way. I stood fast and there was like a beat of like, one, two, three, four, five. Okay, we're gonna leave the scene in and I want you to remember that it was Merrimack who left it alone.

Wow. That's an interesting way to control the situation, right? To take it and bring it all back to him. How weird is it for you to have had a relationship with that guy for all these years, making all these films and now see what he's become? It's it's sad. It's sad. It was like, you know, he wasn't like he wasn't just this guy who financed my movies. He was, you know, kind of like a father figure. I mean, he was kind of a fucked up father figure, but that's most people's fucking father. father figure. I mean, he was kind of a fucked up father figure, but that's most people's fucking father. You know, he was a fucked up father figure, but he was like, you know, he was involved in,

you know, my professional life for like a long, long time. So it's like, it's, you know, I think it's sad. Oh, it's definitely sad. It's just, it's surreal though too, right? Because we've never seen, other than Bill Cosby, we've never seen like a fall like this before. It's so strange. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things is funny, like I said, an interview with the, with the, with the two women that cracked the case on the New York times. I did a talk with them during that time. I don't really talk about it that much afterwards because I go, well, I did it with them and that's enough. But, um, one of the things I ended up like saying is, well, I wish I had done more during the time.

A lot of people read a lot of what that could possibly mean. Right. Well, actually, what it means is I wish I had talked to the guy. I wish I had sat him down and had the uncomfortable conversation. I didn't know about any rapes or anything like that. and had the uncomfortable conversation. I didn't know about any rapes or anything like that. But I knew he was, you know, I chalked it up to the boss chasing the secretary around the desk,

as if that's okay. But, I mean, that's how I kind of looked at it. You know, he was making unwanted advances. That's how I looked at it. But I wish I had talked to him. I wish I had sat him down and go, Harvey, you can't do this. You're going to fuck up everything.

Do you think that no one talked to him and maybe that was how he got so completely out of control? Maybe his brother Bob. Maybe. But, you know, no, I don't think anybody talked to him about it. And the thing about it is everybody who was in his orbit knew about it. There's nobody who said they didn't know that didn't know if you were in his orbit. And that includes all the big actors who he piled around with.

They all knew. They all knew. They didn't know any, probably they didn't know anything about rapes, but they had heard. Yeah. They had heard. Yeah. They had heard things. They had heard about him just, you know, putting the bite on somebody in a limo or something. The story of the rich, powerful producer and the actress who wants to be in films is a story that's as old as film itself. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just one of those stories that goes on. That's a story that's as old as film itself. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just one of those stories that goes on. I mean, it was almost like, I mean, I don't really have a history in film, but from what it's been explained to me, that's always what it's been like. Yeah, I don't know. They gave me a tour of Shaw Brothers Studios. And I'm taking a tour of Shaw Brothers Studios, and they take me into the screening room. And I'm like, okay, well, okay, see that chair in the back there, that was reserved for the owner of the studio, Run Run Shaw.

That's where he sat. And in the back room is a little bed. And that's reserved for where Run Run Shaw took the starlets. Really? Yeah. And it was all. Wow. When you found out about all this, like when you first getting – what was that like?

Like going from being a guy working in a video store to entering into this bizarre world of power and influence? Well, it started with just going on the film festival circuit because I went from a place where I had like barely left Los Angeles County most of my life to like going all around the world. You know, in one year I was on three different continents. Wow. And it was amazing. I was, I mean, you know, I was like a, you know, I was like a shook up soda can. I mean, I was just like living the time of my life. I mean, you know, just going to a film festival. Forget having a movie in the festival. Forget having a movie that's like people dig. Just going to film festivals

and like meeting all the people and seeing like three movies a day at the film festival and get to program. Okay, I'm going to see this. I'm going to see this. I'm going to go have dinner over here. If I haul ass,

I can get here for the 1030 show of blah, blah, blah. And being interviewed, I've been waiting forever to be interviewed. Now all of a sudden, everyone wanted to talk to me. It was great. And I could hold court on any weird theories about film that I had along the way. It was awesome. For me, how I got introduced to you, I'd heard about Reservoir Dogs but the first film I saw was Pulp Fiction and I saw Pulp Fiction

with this girl that I was dating when I first moved to Los Angeles and I remember being in Man's Chinese Theater watching this and for me it was like this crazy change in my life that was in the first few weeks of it opening yeah because that's where it opened yeah crazy change in my life moving to Los Angeles and then seeing this film.

And then I remember very clearly, like, at the end of the film, like, even in the middle of the film, going, this is the craziest fucking movie I've ever seen in my life. And it symbolized to me, like, the world was changing. Like, everything was changing. It was so wild and so crazy. It was a film not it was unlike anything i'd ever seen before all the the different timelines how you interwove everything together but the violence and the chaos and the humor of all of it like people walked out of that movie theater fucked up yeah and i remember thinking like wow like the the world is different

like sometimes you'll see a work of art, a something, and you'll say, that thing just changed everything. It was so wild that it influenced so many other films afterwards. They tried to be like a Pulp Fiction movie, or they tried to be wild. Well, people would ask me about that,

and they go, hey, did that really bug you? There was a period of, it seemed like five years in the 90s where like every crime film kind of had this like ironic bit and and they talked about tv shows and played music in a weird way yeah and everybody was a smart ass right um and they asked me like well does that did that bother you and i go well no it doesn't bother me one i don't think any of them are as good as mine so it just makes mine look better and better and my dialogue look better and better.

But one of my favorite directors is Sergio Leone. And I always considered I was doing to traditional gangster films like Scorsese kind of Goodfellow kind of movies, what he was doing to traditional Westerns when he did his spaghetti Westerns. So then the fact that mine hit and now the fact that I've not, it wasn't that they were just trying to do Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs. They were trying to exist in the same sub-genre of crime film that I had created, which is what all the other spaghetti Westerns that came after Leone's had done. So the fact that it wasn't they were doing just Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction ripoffs. I'd created a subgenre in gangster films that did not exist before.

And they were trying to fill that subgenre. And that was fucking awesome. That's got to be a wild feeling. It was great. I created a subgenre i had affected gangster film i mean by that point to do kind of a scorsese kind of thing was like almost passe yeah well you brought back john travolta yeah which is pretty wild too well i remember even asking somebody i go uh okay well when people say tarantino-esque what do they mean and there

was a guy i knew he was a uh he's like a film analyst. His name is Dave Scow. And he goes, well, okay, just to give you an idea. It's like, okay, so in Bad Boys. Yeah, I think maybe. No, it's like Bad Boys. Well, again, Bad Boys. Okay, you have a couple of henchmen working for the bad guy. And they're sitting in their car.

And all of a sudden, they have a conversation about an I Love Lucy episode. Okay, that wouldn't have happened without you. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is that from? I mean, where have you had this flair for references and this way of layering?

That just comes from being Gen X, man. I mean that was the whole thing about that generation is the idea that – OK. The generation before us that lived through the 60s, they had the 60s. They had the accoutrement of the 60s. They had all that 60s music. And they looked down on the generation that grew up in the 60s, in the 70s. Like, you didn't have any of that shit. You didn't have the music that we had. Well, maybe we didn't have the music you had. We had our music. But what we did have is we had television. We had the Saturday morning cartoons that we dug. We had Schoolhouse Rock. We had all the TV shows we liked. We had

Speed Racer. We had all these kind shows we liked. We had Speed Racer. We had all these kind of things. And they meant something to us. And, you know, kids back then who, if their parents didn't let them watch TV at a certain point, well, the parents might have actually had like the best intentions. But they were actually robbing their children of the pop cultural glue that's going to tie them to their generation when they get older. And so, you know, we had the ABC movies of the week. I mean, we just, you know, we had all that stuff. And we had fucking great movies. If you're going out and seeing the movies of New Hollywood, we had all that.

And so when we got older, it was about talking about that stuff. That was what was worth talking about. And then to actually have characters in a movie talk about that, that was making them sound realistic and to be specific about it. You remember that old sitcom? No, no, no. Talk about, no, you mean Alice, okay? Talk about Mel and Alice.

But the dialogue-heavy stuff, it was a beautiful counterbalance for the explosive violence and the wild craziness of your films. Well, look, I had thought in my 20s I had wanted to be a stand-up comedian. I had thought that that might be where I would go because, you know, I still look at, to this day, it's been cool how you've been talking so much about, like, the Comedy Store, and then there's been all these, like, documentaries come out about it and all these pieces coming out about it and everything. And so, you know, growing up in, like, the 70s and into the 80s, I mythologized the comedy store too. And actually the first time

I went down to the comedy stores, it's like, yeah, 82, 83. I mean, I saw it forever driving past it. And finally I brought up to a buddy of mine, hey, let's just go. And so we show up at the comedy store around like 1130, 12 at night or whatever. It's like, say, 82 or 83.

We walk in the comedy store on stage, never seen him before in my life, never heard of him before, Andrew Dice Clay. That's who's on stage when we come walking in. And he's doing hickory dickory dock. And he's doing his full, like, Dice Clay routine. And then the number one thing, like, whoa, boy, he'll never get on Carson with that.

You know, boy, that was the whole thing. It was like what you were saying about, well, they won't let you do that. Okay, well, he'll never get on Carson with that shit. All right, that was like the whole thing. So he comes on and Paul Rodriguez comes on, who I'd seen and stuff. And then like a few other guys come on, and then it gets to be towards the end of the show. And then you hear in the audience, bring on the beast. Bring on the beast.

Okay, everybody, here we go. Last person of the night. You love him. You can't live without him. Ladies and gentlemen, Sam Kennison. And I never heard of Sam Kennison before. And he walked up there, last guy on the lineup. And I've never laughed harder in my life as I laughed at Sam Kenison doing his, you know, routine at the close of the comedy star.

It was I mean, like I I mean, I spilled drinks. It was like I lost control of myself. And it was so great. I came back the next night to see if the Sam Kinison thing was just like a, did it even happen? Right. Did it even happen?

And then, yeah, there it was. It happened. That's the guy. And I laughed just as much at the shit a second time. I was like, my God, I wanted to follow this guy like a religious leader.

I thought it was the most eye-opening stuff I had ever seen. And I was coming from a similar place. Women had treated me like shit. I was like, fuck yeah, man. This guy's right. And I was just two steps away from being an incel.

So it was like the Sam Kennison was speaking the word, man. I found about Kennison from a girl that I work with at a health club. I worked at this place called the Boston Athletic Club. It was a gym in South Boston. I was teaching people how to lift weights. And there was this girl who was, I think she played volleyball or something.

She was like this big, like bold personality. She was hilarious. She was a really funny girl. And she was telling me, because she knew I liked comedy, and I never even thought about doing comedy back then. This was 1986, so I was 19 years old. And she tells me about this HBO special that she saw with this guy, Sam Kinison. And then she does, we're out in the parking lot of this health club. And she starts doing the routines, yeah.

She starts doing the routine of him paying money to, like he had a routine about homosexual necrophiliacs paying money to the mortuaries to spend time with the freshest male corpses. So here's this girl. Oh, this is great. Yeah, this girl's lying on her stomach in the parking lot going, oh, you mean life keeps fucking in the ass even after you're dead?

It never ends. It never ends. Oh, oh. So she's doing the impression of it. I'm howling at her impression of it. Right. And then I got to a video store and I got a copy of the VHS. Okay.

Well, dude. Okay. I was into him a year and a half before that. All right. Yeah. You're talking. He's already back mainstream. He's already done his HBO special.

This is like no one's giving him shit other than Mitzi. Yeah. You were there at the ground floor. Fucking year and a fucking half before he did any TV. Do you know the origin story of Sam Kinison? Yeah, I do.

Yeah. No, I'm pretty familiar. He's a normal guy. And he got hit by a car when he was a kid and got brain damage. But he was like the weird, like Marjo Garner. He was like the weird evangelist kid Uh-huh. Yeah, but his brother wrote about it in brother Sam his brother Bill wrote a book about it He was like a totally normal kid gets hit by a car and then he's just this wild

Unstoppable that I didn't know. Okay, then I didn't know well There's a quite a few people like that Roseanne is another one. Hit by a car when she was 15. She spent nine months afterwards in a mental institution. She couldn't count anymore. She used to be excellent at math. She got hit by a car, spent nine months in a mental institution, couldn't count anymore. Her brain was completely fucked up. No, I had a friend got hit by a car, and then when she came came to she couldn't speak english she could only speak

spanish whoa could you speak spanish before that yeah i think she had like uh you know just high school spanish but then all of a sudden like for uh you know i think four four days or so she could only only access the spanish part of her brain wow Well, something happens to people when they get brain injuries where they get really impulsive and wild and they're reckless and that's what became of Kenneson. He became this wild, reckless like maniac and

it literally came out of a brain injury. It's amazing. I mean, it's terrible. You don't want anybody to have a brain injury, but on the other hand that's the only way to create a Kenneson. That's the only way there. Yeah, exactly. That's the only that's That's where the lab experiment starts It's hard for people to understand how revolutionary that guy was Because when I was a kid he was the first guy that ever made me think about comedy

Like that I could do comedy because I always thought comedy was those guys you thought you saw in The Tonight Show Yeah, yeah, were they you know well it's like the first real official thing he did outside of the comedy store was he did one of those comedy tapes that Rodney Dangerfield hosted. Yeah. So it was like him and Roseanne Barr

and then like a couple of other, Bob Nelson. Yep. Doing his boxer dude. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then, so like, oh my God, this is the dude. This is the dude. This is before he gets his own special.

Yep. He just does Rodney's special. Yeah, no, I remember that very well. So we had all my God, this is the dude. This is the dude. This is before he gets his own special. He just does Rodney's special. Yeah, no, I remember that very well. So we had all those tapes, man. I watched all that stuff. I remember you used to, on Comedy Central, you would do your little non sequiturs. Jesus Christ, you remember those? Yeah, when you had hair and you did the little non sequiturs talking yeah, okay, I can pretend I'm sitting in front of a brick wall.

Yeah. And I'm talking about LA and New York. Yeah, that's like 93 or 92 or something like that. That's crazy. No, I was just like, I did Marc Maron show. Hey, I remember you. Short attention span theater, right? Wow.

Yeah. Penn Juliet doing all the promo voices. Penn Juliet, yeah, yeah. Penn Juliet doing all the promo voices Penn Jillette yeah yeah well Jillette yeah god it's amazing that you were at the store in 82 was prior there at all no he would make personal he would make it was always a big deal him and Robin Williams would just show up every once in a while no it was like boring Paul Muni you, doing his fucking 45 minute act blowing down everybody else who wanted to come on and Tom Brogan

alright, the guy who he had a show, I think he was one of the producers on the Tonight Show at a certain point Jimmy Brogan Jimmy Brogan would come on Jeff Altman would come on. Jeff Altman. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Would come on doing their bit. Carrie Snow. It was the time of Carrie Snow, which I always, whatever happened to her, I thought she was really funny. She was really funny. I don't know. I don't know what happened to her. Yeah, that's an amazing time.

That was probably literally the heyday of the comedy store where you were there yeah well it was definitely the new generation was coming was come was coming around and um you know i talked with jim carrey once and he was like no he goes no that was the time when i knew i could kill with impressions but i knew i had to get away from impressions. And Sam Kennison was my best friend, and he was the one teaching me, telling me I got to stop doing impressions.

And Mitzi would go, what are you talking about? You're the king of impressions. And I thought, well, okay, so I'm the king of impressions. So what, the best I can hope for is Rich Little? I want more than that. But that means going up on the comedy store

and bombing knowing that if I just did one impression I'd win the audience completely over and so like when you know you have killer material

in your pocket and you refuse to use it and you refuse but you're gonna you know painfully recreate yourself she had a few guys

like that that were guitar acts oh uh-huh that were they would only sing songs on stage and then she eventually was telling them hey put the fucking guitar down just go up there and do stand-up you can do stand-up right and a lot of them just went into a funk and didn't know how to handle it because here you got mitzi shore yeah yeah telling you to put the fucking guitar down but you know that the guitar is your like safety right yeah yeah uh-huh.

Yeah. It never worked out. I don't know anybody who ever put the guitar down and just... And then just killed it, yeah. Maybe I don't know. Maybe they did it, but... But you see, okay, and that's that time. If you look at the comedy, okay, say six years before that,

you know, like the Gary Shandling time, you know, the Brian Regan time and everything, years before that, you know, like the Gary Shandling time, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Brian Regan time and everything. And then it was like, everybody was like getting on make me laugh. Right. Well, Brian Regan was way later. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's the, this, it was, no, Brian Regan is, is the time we're talking about. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, the time we're talking about in 80s right well brian reagan really made it um after the 90s oh really yeah but he'd been around he'd been around i'm sure i'd seen him on caroline's comedy hour like in 88 yeah yeah for sure but he really kind of made it brian reagan kind of made it i never know he actually ever really made it i always just liked the guy well he's made it as a big act as a stand-up comedy act but actually ever really made it. I always just liked the guy. Well, he's made it as a big act, as a stand-up comedy act.

But never really made it in television and films and stuff like that. But he sells out Red Rocks in Denver all the time. He sells out giant theaters. Yeah, he does really well. But he's one of those guys like Sebastian, like Sebastian Maniscalco, who sells out these giant-ass places. And then you find out about it. You're like, what? Sebastian, like Sebastian Maniscalco, who sells out these like giant ass places. And then you find out about it.

You're like, what? Like Sebastian sells out Madison Square Garden like multiple shows in a row. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Well, again, talking about Dice, he was the first comedian to do that. Yes. Yes. He was the first. I mean, him in that day selling out Madison Square Garden three times in a row.

I mean, like for a three night engagement. That was. Unheard of. Unheard of. Unheard of! Yeah, nobody did that. He sold out Nassau Coliseum, giant arenas. And then, like, he did one of the greatest comedy albums of all time. The two...

Day the Laughter Died. The Day the Laughter... One of the greatest comedy albums of all time. I'm so glad you like that. At the height of his controversy, he does a two-album set with a hostile fucking audience. And bombs. And bombs. With people leaving like, you're a fucking asshole.

Yeah, get out of here, you fucking bitch. This guy got up, I'll never forget, he goes, you're about as funny as a glass of milk. That's what he said to him. I mean, that is just the greatest comedy album ever, at the height of his fame. And I'm pretty sure Rick Rubin produced it. Yeah, I think he did. And so these two wild motherfuckers said, go ahead, release it, release it. Well, Dice has always been this guy that's taken crazy chances like that.

Very few people would have the confidence or have the the the Understanding of who they are do that yeah, yeah, and to know that that is like a lot of people are not gonna like it There's oh yeah, probably a lot of people bought those CDs and we're like what the fuck is this right because he shows up unannounced At Dangerfields nightclub in New York City There's fucking no one in the audience like because no one knows he's gonna be there and he's doing this complete unprepared set he has no material he's just fucking around and sometimes he's got a John Travolta impersonation wait waiting for the end I know I can do the stayin alive thing and that'll wrap up the audience well that was his thing you know he used

to be Andrew Silverstein. Yeah, yeah. And he had all these impressions that he would do. He would do Travolta. He would do Stallone. And then at the end, he would do this Dice Man character. The Dice Man character was so good. He abandoned all the other shit and just kind of became the Dice Man.

That must have been wild, though, to be there at that time. No, to walk into the place And he's on stage Full black leather jacket Doing the whole cigarette bit Wow Doing his I dream of genie jokes I dream of genie And everyone's like okay

Master what wish can I grant you Okay Make your tongue ten feet long And stick it up my ass that era of hollywood like to be there at that time it was a tumultuous time too it was like so much wild shit was happening and for you to be a young guy to be in that scene and see it all go down. Like, just be a young guy back then. How much of that affected the way you viewed things, the way you viewed your work and the things that you made?

Well, I don't know if it had any, like, you know, it was just exciting. The 90s were fun. You know, the 90s, now the 90s look like the 70s part too. I don't know if I thought about that then. Right. But I think about that now. And, yeah, it was a lot of fun. You know, and I was still pretty young.

I was, like, in my beginning 30s. And my 20s, because I was so broke, like, working minimum wage jobs, I didn't, like, have as much fun in my 20s as I could have had. Well, I made up for it in my 30s. When you brought back John Travolta, that was a big deal too because you had this enormous movie and that was like one of the first times I can recall, correct me if I'm wrong, where a guy falls out like he's not a big star anymore. It's gone. It's over.

And then you put him in a massive movie and he's really fucking good yeah yeah he's really fucking good it's interesting it's weird he's a heroin addict who's an assassin who also can dance and him and Uma Thurman on the dance floor you changed his whole life yeah now it happened that way was a resistance to try to put him in that movie oh of course I mean the only thing he had done that had made any noise in a long time was you know those look who's talking movies yeah and um okay there's this thing that's floating around like you know my initial cast list for for pulp fiction is kind of floating around on the internet somebody got a hold of it and and and printed it out and you know it's uh um it's true

but there's a story behind it it's not just a normal cast list the idea i remember my agent telling me okay so we're uh okay you're getting a deal so one of the things that you do when you you get a deal at the time it was TriStar. And it was like you write down everybody you can think of who would be more or less you think right for the character. And you write down everybody. And if they sign off on it, well, then you can cast any of those people you want. if they sign off on it, well, then you can cast any of those people you want. So I thought of everybody who could ever even possibly play the roles. And I just wrote like a whole shitload of names. Not that I was even going to consider it.

It was like, no, throw more names on there. And that's just, you know, once they sign off on it, this is the talent pool I have to choose from. So I just wrote down a whole shitload of names of people that I thought in the wildest stretch of the imagination could be okay for the role if it all worked out. And then it came time to sign off on it and then they were like, okay, we want you to take two names off the list and we'll sign off on it. And I go, Oh,

well, who? And they go, we want you to take off William Peterson and we want you to take off John Travolta. Wow. And I go, well,

I'm not going to take off John Travolta. Now this was actually before I even wanted John Travolta. I wrote the part of Vincent from Michael Madsen. It was his role. And I, you know, I'd written a pumpkin and Honey Bunny for Tim Roth and Amanda Plummer. And I'd written The Wolf for Harvey Cattell. And I had written Vincent Vega for Michael Madsen. And then I've been writing the script for not quite a year, but like say eight or nine months.

Two weeks before I'm finished with it, Michael Madsen accepts the role in Wyatt Earp, the Kevin Costner, Lawrence Kasdan movie. And so he's not available. And at the time, I was thinking maybe a John Travolta more for the Eric Stoltz part. Not that I would have dressed him like Eric Stoltz, but he was that guy. And so then I get together with John and we have lunch and he's a really great guy. And I start thinking, well, you know, he could be a real legitimate replacement for Michael Madsen as Vincent. I can see him being a really, really good Vincent.

And so I say I want to cast him. And now it's not TriStar anymore. Now it's Miramax. And Harvey Gutierrez, John Travolta but he just does straight to video movies you know and that talking baby shit you know you can

have anybody you want you know I mean like you could get Sean Penn if you wanted now he's a great actor you could get a and at the time

and he wasn't at the time he was like Daniel Day Lewis would do this and you know he doesn Day-Lewis would do this. And he doesn't do anything, but he would do this. And it's one thing to actually push some guy who's not hot, but it's another thing to, like, a guy's hot and wants to do it. And then you're pushing him aside to push another dude. And I just literally just said, I go, well, look, here's the thing that I had in my side

while the rest of the industry was telling me I was crazy, was, you know, one of my favorite writers has always been Pauline Kael. And Pauline Kael was always a huge John Travolta fan. Even when she didn't like the movie, she liked him. And they had had a piece in the Los Angeles Times maybe five years earlier about what the fuck happened to Travolta. And they interview her. And at the end, they go, well, can John Travolta come back? And then she said, well, he needs to come back. Movies need him. And so I just, knowing that I had Pauline Kael on my side,

I could literally face down any Hollywood fuck about it. You know, that was like my Siegfried sword. All right. And they were all dragons. And I had the word of Pauline Kael in my back pocket. She backed me up.

And so I said, well, look, Harvey Weinstein, look, Harvey, you need to watch John Travolta in Brian De Palma's Blowout. Well, look, Harvey Weinstein. Look, Harvey. You need to watch John Travolta in Brian De Palma's Blowout. And if you don't think that's a great performance, then maybe we shouldn't be making this movie together and I should make it with somebody else. Wow.

And then all of a sudden it was okay to have Travolta. Was there another silent moment? Yeah. Just remember Miramax said it's okay to use John Travolta. Exactly, yeah. Well yeah well goddamn you were right though I mean because there was something about seeing him in the movie like wow fucking John Travolta because it like I said the movie was so odd and so special that it was an added element of having this guy that was supposed to be done and now all of a sudden he's back and not only

back he's fucking sensational. Yeah. And there was this weird kind of things. I don't think that kind of comeback had happened in a bit. Had it ever happened? Well, I'm sure there – oh, yeah. Case could be made it happen with Frank Sinatra with From Here to Eternity and like a couple of other things or like a character actor comes back.

He's been doing crappy stuff, but then he has like a nice role, like Martin Landau in Tucker. Now he's now doing stuff again. Right. You know, where he had been doing exploitation movies before.

But not like, no, the guy becomes a big star again. Yeah. And, but there was this thing, I remember Manola Dargis even writing about it at the time. And she goes, has a comeback ever been this much fun? It was sort of like a thing. Yeah, we always used to like John Travolta. Yeah. And then we just kind of let it die on the vine. And now we're seeing it. And yes, we were right to like him before. He's really charming in this. He's really interesting. Yeah, it wasn't about ability. You enjoyed it. Yes. It was a perception issue. You perceived him as being in a category of actors that had been relegated to, like you said, off these videos. Well, there was an interesting thing because remember we screened Pulp Fiction at this festival in Italy, the Taramina Film Festival.

a festival in Italy, the Taramina Film Festival. And the people who were on the – so it was my movie and I was part of the jury. And so the whole jury kind of watched my movie and was like – had this big amphitheater that like was made a thousand years ago. So it's all being projected outside and we're all sitting on these stone steps, bleachers. And so it's like Adam O'Goyan, the Canadian filmmaker, and John Waters, and Pedro Amodovar, they're all there. And they're all watching my movie for the first time. And then the Jackrabbit Slim scene starts happening. And then all of a sudden, they say, yes, they're going to join the twist contest and they walk up on the stage and then all of a sudden John Travolta starts taking off his shoes.

And then they're all like, oh, my God, he's going to dance. Holy shit. John Travolta is going to fucking dance in the movie. And then he dances. Oh, my God. This is the greatest thing ever. Right. Because people forgot how fucking good of a dancer.

Yeah. Saturday Night Fever. Yeah. Go back and watch that movie. Wow. When you finish that film, how long does it take from last scene filmed, that's a wrap, to the editing process of putting together a film like that with all the intricate- People ask me that a lot,

and I always kind of just have amnesia about how long it takes. I think it's something like, you know, three or four months, something like that. Wow. You know, to edit it all together. Do you lose your vision in that time? I mean, it's like, it seems like...

No, it just gets better and better and better. But what I'm thinking is like, is it hard to see what you're seeing like because you're so close to it is it hard to see it fresh no to see it how a person's going to see it if they're watching it for the first time no it's no it's it's really fun after shooting the movie it's like it's it's really fun to actually start playing with the edit you know and then like you know using the scenes that you like and the takes that you like and and building it and whenever you do a good cinematic sequence,

then for the next two weeks, you start the day looking at a scene that you did that you liked. Okay, let's watch that car chase again or let's watch that music montage again. That gets our blood up. Okay, we're the guys who did that. Let's do this.

Is it true that you have a 20-hour cut of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? No, she was exagger that. Let's do this. You know, is it true that you have a 20 hour cut of once upon a time in Hollywood? No, that's not, she was exaggerated. These motherfuckers. Yeah. I was excited.

I was like, maybe you'll put it out on Netflix. No, it's like, you know, if I were to cut the film, if I were to cut the film where like time was not an issue, just not,

so not, not to throw every piece of shit in there. All right. But I will, okay. If time is not an issue and I can use all the footage that I shot and don't issue just yeah not so not not to throw every piece of shit in there all right but okay if time is not an issue and i can use all the footage that i shot and don't have to worry about time it would probably be about like you know three hours and 20 minutes or something like that oh yeah interesting have you ever thought of doing that i might yeah i might that would be well and the and you know and um there's all kinds of stuff in the book that i

didn't shoot or anything that i came up with later or i or i just never never even bothered because i know it would never be in the film but uh uh but if i were to do that after you've read the book it would seem like oh wow i guess this is like a movie version of the book all right because there's all these sequences that are in the book that weren't in the movie but you wrote the book after you wrote the screenplay yeah no do you when you have this like how do you write do you have a storyboard where you have these ideas do you just kind of go on the fly and go wherever your creativity takes you well sort of i mean like i write from the uh you know i i when i write my scripts know, I start with the first scene and then just go through the story. Now, normally when I do a movie, I have more or less the story worked out.

I mean, like, okay, say, okay. And also because I'm dealing in genre and subgenre. So that even dictates a bit. And also because I'm dealing in genre and subgenre. So that even dictates a bit. I mean, if I'm writing Kill Bill, I pretty much know at the end of the movie she's going to kill Bill. But exactly how she's going to kill Bill and how we feel about it at the end, well, that's left open for conjecture. Now I need to get to there.

But I can assume that that's going to happen. And in Glorious Bastards, I figure it's going to end with the big mission. Now exactly what goes down in the big mission is to be revealed. But that is – but it's a genre movie and it's a bunch of guys on a mission movie and we're heading in that direction. So it's like – so normally I have it worked out. out. But what I've learned through trial and error, or just, I guess, from experience, what I've learned not trial and error, but from experience, what I've learned is that little mapping out of more or less what happens in the story really only applies till the middle of the story. Because by the time you get to the middle of the story, well, now you know so much

more before you ever started putting pen to paper. I well, now you know so much more before you ever started putting pen to paper. I mean, now I know who these people are. Now I am these people, these characters. I am them. They are me. Now I truly know who they are. And now I've invested in this world to such a degree that the hope is by the 40% mark or the 50% mark that the characters just take it from me.

And then from that point on, they're writing the story. Wow. So you're just essentially thinking through their eyes or thinking through their minds and behaving as them and just knowing who they are. I am a storyteller. through their minds and behaving as them and just knowing who they are. I am a storyteller, so if I have to steer them in a direction I think is more interesting or more exciting, well, then obviously I can do that. I have the power to do that.

But I'm trying not to do that. I figure if they want to do it, they're right. That is truth talking to me. And I figure they should know best. Yeah. And this process, like, how are you you doing this are you alone in a room are you are you in the dark like how do you how do you write well it all changed specific way yeah it all changed about uh more or less around uh um around writing glorious bastards it all changed before, I was very much like an amateur, mad little writer.

I mostly wrote at night, all night long, go to bed in the morning. Or if I was writing during the day, I probably was writing in a restaurant or a bar. Go to a restaurant and order some shit and drink a lot of coffee and, like, you know, be there for three hours with all my shit laid out. Somewhere around doing Reservoir Dogs, that changed. And I started writing during the daytime. Reservoir – No, no, I didn't mean Reservoir. I meant Inglorious Basterds.

Sorry about that. Good catch. Around Inglorious Basterds, I started writing during the daytime. Where I'd get up and, you know, it's like, you know, so around 1030 or 11 o'clock or 1130, I would sit down and write. And like a normal workday. And I would sit down and I would write until four, five, six or seven, somewhere around there. I would stop. And then I have a pool and I keep it heated,

so it's nice. And I'd go into my, so if I finished, okay, so either I'm not finished with a sequence or I've just finished a sequence and I got to figure out what to do next. So if I haven't finished a sequence, then I'd hop in my pool and just kind of float around in the warm water and think about everything I've just written and how I can make it better or what else can happen as far as before the scene's over. And then a lot of shit would come to me, literally. A lot of things would come to me. And then I'd get out and I would make little notes on that,

but not do it. And that would be my work for tomorrow. Or if I just finished a scene, all right, I would think, okay, I'd go back over it in my head in the pool and think about it. Now, okay, now what's the next scene? Okay, now what's next? And then I'd figure out a few things and make notes and that's my work for the next day. And that's ended up becoming this really, you know, really enjoyable, really kind of lovely way to write. As opposed to all-nighters. As opposed to the all-nighters. I can still do

that from every once in a while, but I just think there's, I just like the idea of writing all day and then stopping and then having a meditative process about what I've done, what I'm going to do, and then just check it out and, you know, watch a movie or go and have dinner and do whatever. And what caused

the shift? I don't know. I'm not sure. I think, Frank, you know, I think it was just actually becoming more professional. I think that first thing is kind of what you think you're supposed to do as a writer. By this point in time, I'd written enough scripts and I was definitely a professional and I just started, you know, having a work day. And do you have, like, say if you start a film like Kill Bill, do you, what, how do you, do you you have an inspiration one day and you write a note? How does something like that get going and actually become a project? Oh, well, no.

I came up with the idea and came up with who the deadly vipers would be. And I knew I kind of wanted each of them to more or less represent some subgenre in exploitation cinema or action cinema. So it's as if Uma is fighting her way through genre cinema. Yeah, that's a fucking amazing movie. Both of them. Yeah, that's one of my favorite films I've done. Yeah, it's one of my favorite films you've done too. And the violence is so fun because it's so cartoonish almost.

It's so crazy. No, it's very Sh violence is so fun yeah because it's so cartoonish almost it's so crazy no it's very shogun assassin yeah yeah and to do it what was the motivation to do it into two films well it uh it wasn't meant to be done that way it was meant to be one big giant movie and um and so through the whole thing i'm like, I cut this down to three hours, cut this down to two and a half hours. How am I going to do it? And we're shooting all this. I go, well, it's going to work out. It has to work out.

But, boy, it's going to be sad. It's going to be rough. But, you know, it's got to be done. But, you know, it's got to be done. And then at some point after we kind of finished the main shoot, we were doing little pickup scenes that we needed to do something on. And then Harvey Weinstein visited the set. And he was just talking to me just before I was getting ready to shoot a scene. He goes, yeah, Quentin, you know, I really – it's going to murder you to cut some of this. You know, what about releasing it in two parts?

And that way you can keep everything in it. And he said that. And then like the AD goes, okay, we're ready for you, Quentin. And so I go and I shoot whatever I was shooting and I shoot one, two or three takes. And when I'm done, I go back to Harvey. OK, if we do that, this is how we do it. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. He goes, well, I say let's do it that way.

I go, OK, that's great. Now, Uma Thurman will tell you that I always meant to do it in two parts. I just waited for Harvey to have the idea. And there might be something to that. But I couldn't count on that. But Quentin always knew it was going to be two parts, but he knew he couldn't have the idea. It had to be Harvey's great idea.

Did you always know that it was going to be her? Did you write that movie for her? No, well, not only that, she got pregnant just before I was getting ready to do the movie with her son, Levon. And everyone was pressuring me to go and cast somebody else. But I was like, hey, you know, your right fistful of dollars for Eastwood. Eastwood gets pregnant.

You wait for Eastwood. Yeah. It's only nine months. Yeah. Well, then how long after giving birth did she do the film? She started training within like three months of kicking out the baby. That's crazy. That's because it's so physical Yeah, how much of what she was doing was her and how much of it was a stunt people because she did a lot of shit Yeah, no, she did if you look at the movie you can see it

Look, you know, I mean anything that required her to do like somersaults or anything like that. That's pretty much so we Bell All right, you know, but uh, you know but actual the the physical the physical fighting with the sword and all that that's her you know and the you know uh you know any crash and smash stuff is zoe bell the girl who's in death proof yeah so you took uma thurman's stunt double and turned her into an actress and made her an actress yeah that's fucking incredible yeah just just because you thought she was cool or well yeah she was cool all right she was like this really wonderful presence she had starred in a documentary called double dare uh where it was like they followed genie epper who's kind of this like the patron saint of female stunt uh uh uh stunt people

because the epper family is like the flying Luindas, all right, of the stunt world. And Jeannie Epper was Linda Carter's double on Wonder Woman. And Zoe was Lucy Lawless's double on Xena. So they kind of do this movie where it kind of shows their trajectory. And Zoe is just a very charming, very funny, effervescent person. And so when you see the documentary, you see that all that that she has in real life just completely comes through in the movie. And people fall in love with her in the film. And so I knew that if I wrote a part that featured that and I guided it, that that exact same quality of Zoe would come across. But with Zoe, we could do anything

we fucking want all right and uh and you know and zoe and like jackie chan zoe will do it on camera and you'll know that it's zoe that it's zoe doing it right and zoe was sort of like you know well look my whole thing is if i'm doubling for uma if i'm doubling for Uma, if I'm doubling for Sharon Stone or whatever, I want to do everything. Because, okay, in those cases, if it's like Sharon Stone's foot on the bumper of the car, well, then it's going to be Zoe's foot. If it's like Sharon Stone's hand holding the belt, it's going to be Zoe's hand holding the belt. Okay, so now it's me.

No, I want my foot on the bumper and I want my hand on the belt. I want to do all the inserts. I want to do everything. And everyone now it's me no i want my foot on the bumper and i want my hand on the belt i want to do all the inserts i want to do everything and and everyone knows it's me so when you guys filmed the scenes in death proof where she was hanging on the hood of the challenger yeah she's really driving down the road hanging on the hood of a challenger oh yeah going like 70 miles an hour holy shit yeah we're never like the people like i like, I heard this on a podcast. Well, I heard they were going 40 miles. Bull fucking shit. We were going 70 miles an hour at slowest. Wow.

It was between, it was between, well, 60 miles an hour at slowest. It was between 60, 70, and 90. There's certain scenes, like when she's turned around and she's holding onto the vents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm fucking cringing, like this. This is fucking wild, man. How the hell did she do that? Well, the thing about it, she had a little help, but one of the things that she had was, uh, she had a, uh, uh, look, it's, it's how it helps her. If everything goes well,

it hurts her. If things go sideways, she had a metal cable that, uh to her, like, you know, basically like the button of her pants. And that cable went through the hood back into the back seat. And then there was a stunt guy holding the cable. Oh, Jesus. You know, so it's not an automatic thing. No, he's holding the cable. So he's giving her more cable when she needs it, and he's holding tight when she doesn't. But if the car flipped over, or if the car did anything like that, that cable would have killed her.

Right. She's attached to the car now. Yeah, she's attached to the car. And you are doing these scenes where you're banging the Challenger against the Charger. And she's hanging on while this is happening. Absolutely. Fuck. And when we're doing it, it's like we're doing it, yeah, it's like 60, 70, 80, or 90 miles an hour.

And if you look at it, if the camera is in front of the car, which it was a lot of times, If the camera is in front of the car, which it was a lot of times, if the camera's in front of the car, well, that means the car, if Zoe's going 80 miles an hour, that means the camera car's going 90 miles an hour. If Zoe is going 90 miles an hour, that means the camera car is going 110 miles an hour. Oh, my God. And you're doing this in old fucking cars, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. They don't handle that good.

Yeah. Oh, they... Those cars were pretty good. All right. You know, we bought like three chargers and made a Frankenstein monster of the best of them. Yeah. But even if you make the best of her, I have a lot of those cars.

Yeah, yeah. The old cars just... Even if you do the best job you can of changing the suspension and doing... They're still... They handle like dog shit. Well, it's funny because it was like on the last day of the car chase, which we had two weeks to do the car chase. On the last day of the car chase, we kept crashing. Not with Zoe on the car. It was during the later chase.

Buddy Joe Hooker was the one driving Kurt's car. And he kept tipping it over. Oh, Jesus Christ. And I never got hurt, but it was always like a little scary. And then the AD comes to me and he goes, I think we kind of need

to wrap this up. I think we've just really been living in the pocket of luxury for two weeks. But like the fact that it's happened three times on this last day, I think it's just,

we've just burned out our goodwill with the movie gods. I think we need to wrap this up. Wow. How many times did you guys crack? How many different challengers and chargers did you film that with? Well, we

beat the shit out of them and then we had mechanics work on them all night long. To try to make them functional. Yeah, exactly. So they didn't bend the frames or anything like that? No, no, no. Nothing like that. God damn though. Did you use a white challenger in sort of an homage to vanishing point oh yeah well they talk about it and then they talk about that's right oh it's like the falling that vanishing point that's right that's right and why the the kurt russell character like when you have this guy who's killing people with a car like where the fuck did that come from

well that came from the idea at some point i was hanging out with sean penn's name drop for a second i was hanging out with sean penn and um i was thinking telling him I think I'm going to change my car. I'm going to get a safer car because, like, you know, life's pretty good. I kind of always had this thing that I wasn't going to die before I did what I wanted to do because God didn't put me on earth to not do what I wanted to do. However, by that point, I'd been doing what I wanted to do for about 10 years. So theoretically, okay, he could take me out right now.

And I will have done my part. And so I was saying to Sean, like, I'm thinking about getting a safer car. So in case- What were you driving at the time? Like a Geo Metro or something like that. Really? Yeah. It was like my first new car I ever bought. So you just kept it? Yeah. That's hilarious.

I bought it with my true romance. It's hilarious that you decided to get something safer, not better, not cooler. Yeah, no, safer, safer, safer. And he goes, well, you don't need to buy a fucking Volvo, you know, in order to do that. Just buy any car you want and give it to a stunt team and have them death proof it. And then you're ready to go. Boom. That got in my mind.

Okay. All right. Death proof a car. Death proof a car. And then I've always liked the slasher film genre. And so then I kind of thought of like my version of a slasher movie, except like the guy doesn't have a knife and he's slashing up all the girls. He just kills them all with his car that he can live through. And then like he heals up and nine months later he does it to another group of girls.

When he did that in the first one, that collision is so horrific, that head-on collision. How did you do that? Well, it was funny because I don't like to use CGI or anything. And I wanted it to have the effect of the people in the movie. The effect that you have when you see those slow motion of crash test dummies. You see them jerked and their heads go forward and back and they just get all fucked up. Well, I wanted to do that with real people.

How do you do this with real people? And so I don't like to use CGI, but I figured, well, if any time there would be a plight for CGI would be this because I can't do that to real people. But K&B Effects by Greg Nicotero, the mastermind behind The Walking Dead series, he just knows how much I hate CGI. So he planned on doing it with puppets and full body cast kind of stuff. And so he worked it out how to do it in camera just exactly. So it's like, you know, so they they they, you know, took all the girls and, you know, did full body plaster casts on them and painted up Jungle Julia's leg and put the wig on her and did everything. And we worked it out how to just do it with dummies that we could rip apart. Wow.

And we did it in slow motion. Then we kind of replay it back. So it's like, okay, all this is happening. All this is happening within like 40 seconds. But because you see what happens to each of them, it takes longer. And with the cars, how did you, did did you just have some sort of remote control system? Yeah, it was a remote control system. We were on one end of a street, and then there was just a cable that connected the two cars together, and they drove without anybody. Remote control.

And so they just drove right into each other. How fast were they going? Like 70. Yeah, because somebody was telling me that that was done with stuntmen. I'm like, there's no fucking way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so much power. The way those cars collide. It's one of the greatest head-on car collisions in the history of film.

Absolutely. Because it really is a head-on car collision at speed. Yeah. And we had to do it twice because we had to do the one, the two grills hitting each other and smash. Then we had to do it where the car goes up all right and rips the roof off and it takes the girl's face off yeah oh fuck and then it had to roll and roll and roll and roll and roll and do all the stuff we wanted how many novas did you destroyed making that movie uh not more than like four you know it was just

like you know we had four and then you kept working on it. Then you cannibalize the parts from this one or that one. It's kind of amazing that after all the movies that have had those cars crashed, there's any of those cars still around. Well, I have the, uh, I have, uh, um, uh, I have the challenger. I have like the best of the challengers. They, they, when it came to the, what was left, they took the best and made a Frankenstein monster for me of the best of the Challenger and the Charger, and I have them in storage.

What do you do with it? Well, it's just sitting in their storage right now. What would be kind of cool, if somebody wanted to like finance it, I would like do it. like do it. I have all my vehicles from my car, from my movies. I mean, even including like, you know,

Schultz's tooth wagon from, uh, uh, uh, Django and chain. Do you have the Wolf's NSX? No, I don't have that.

Cause that was just a rental. All right. But I have, uh, um, you know, uh, uh,

but I, I, I, I, I have Max Cherry's little, like, uh, uh,

blue powder, blue Seville. I have, uh, uh, the wagon from. I have the wagon from the stagecoach from Hateful Eight. I had the Torino from Pulp Fiction. I was doing a thing like the cars or the vehicles from Quentin Tarantino's movies and just going on a tour. Put them all together and you go to a place and just lay them all out and people can take photos with them.

I think that would be fantastic. I think people would love that. Yeah, if somebody wanted to actually finance the tour and everything and you pay to send the cars over here and there and do the auditoriums that it would have to take place in, I would do that.

That would be cool. I guarantee you someone's going to hear this and reach out. So where would they contact you at? What's the best way if someone's... It's William Morris. William Morris, okay. WME now, right?

Yeah, yeah. Old habits. Yeah, I know, exactly. So those films, when you're doing these kind of crazy smash-up films where you have these classic cars and you're doing this kind of stuff, do people ever get angry and you're doing this kind of stuff. Do people ever get angry that you're destroying these because those cars are

like beloved American iconic vehicles. When you're actually buying them from the collector, you don't tell them what you're going to do. Oh my god, are you kidding? This is like my baby. This is my son. Or my daughter yeah so you

don't tell them what you're going to use it for but i mean not just just the general public because people love those cars so much uh-huh no no it's a it's a car chase movie you know they want you know they want to see a good exciting car chase yeah when you when you look back at a film like that that film is so over the top and so chaotic too. What was that like putting that death proof together? Because it seems it's such a crazy movie because there's so much dialogue and you're getting to know these people. And then they die in horrific, terrible ways. Well, one, it was like I'd been coming to Austin by that point in time about 10 years.

And so I had a whole group of friends in Austin. I have all these memories and I've been – later I owned a movie theater called the New Beverly Cinema and I still own it now. And we show movies there a lot oftentimes from my collection. but before I had that theater, I used to come to Austin and we would have what they call QT film fest where I bring a bunch of prints over. And, uh, and we would usually,

first we did it at the Dobie when it was, the Dobie was like the cool independent theater out here. And then it became the Alamo draft house, um, back when, uh, you know, back when it was like on Guadalupe or whatever.

And we would go in and show the movies there. And that's how I got to know Tim league and all the Alamo Drafthouse people. And we would have like two weeks or a week and a half, all right, of movies. And so I got to just really know all the cinema people and all the, you know, just all the cool hipsters in Austin. I got very familiar with the place. cool hipsters in Austin. I got very familiar with the place. And so when I did Death Proof,

since I made it take place in Austin, that was my chance to do an Austin movie. And we shot at the Texas Chili Parlor for like two weeks. And then we'd be there all night and shooting at the Texas Chili Parlor. And then we would wrap around the morning time. They're going to open up in about four hours or so, and then we would just start drinking.

The crew that hung around, we would just start drinking and have a little after-bar party for two or three hours and then go home and wake up and start it all over again. How did you know you were going to use Kurt Russell? Was that your first choice? No, my first choice was Mickey Rourke. Really? Yeah.

Oh, wow. And it was going to be Mickey Rourke. Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. But, and it was going to be Mickey Rourke, and Mickey wanted to do it, but then his agent started, like, you know, his agent said, well, they need Mickey. And so the agent started fucking with us. And it was one of those things

where... Goddamn agents. Yeah, it was one of those things where it was like, Robert was doing his movie Planet Terror first, so I'm waiting to do mine when he gets done and the agent was was fucking around with us and I was literally okay look here's here's one of the offers you have until nine o'clock Friday night to accept or reject. And they just let that deadline blow by. And so that was it. And then so then I started thinking, well, who next? And me and Robert Rodriguez had always loved Kurt Russell. And we sent him the script. I never met him before. I've met him once. And he read it and he loved it and then we

and he said yes and we got together and did it and me and kurt have had a magnificent relationship ever since kurt russell's awesome i mean he's good in so many fucking movies all the way back to the thing you know oh yeah all the way back to dexter riley when he was going through in the disney shit but was is there like a way that you would have contacted Mickey is there like a is there a protocol for that like is there a time where you want someone for your part so so much well I knew at the time he was actually it was like a neighbor he'd actually lived down the street from me so like I'd even gone down to his house and hung out you know a couple of times so it was like you

know so at first it was like just calling him up. Right. And then like gave him the script to read and he read it, you know, and he was like, what's icy hot? And I go, well, it's a thing he wears on his jacket. It's sort of like, it's like Bengay. Oh, okay. You know, and he was talking about getting a pompadour and that would be a cool thing. He hadn't worn that look in a long time. And then, you know, but it was just the, you know, it was once the agents got in. And the agents were just sort of like, I mean,

and the agents were just sort of, oh, well, they need him. I mean, they need him so we can do what we want. Oh, fucking agents. And whenever agents treat that way to me, that's when I pull the plug. Yeah, rightly so. It's amazing how much damage they can do, right? Yeah.

Arsonist disguised as fireman. Yeah. Same thing with lawyers. Yeah. Well, sometimes you need them. Are you still committed to this idea that you're going to do 10 films? Yeah. Why is that?

Well, okay. Because you're at nine, right? I know, okay. Because you're at nine, right? I know, yeah. You got me talking about retiring when I'm not retiring now. I still have another movie to do. Right, but that's only one. For me as a fan, the idea that you're only going to do one more movie, that sucks. Well, I appreciate it.

Thank you. Part of it is for you to say that, and part of it is to leave you wanting more. Yeah. It's like, I mean, there is, you know, there is one. And also I've been doing it for a long time. 30 years is a long fucking time. Yes, it is. And.

Did you always know from the beginning you were going to do 10? No, no, no, I didn't. When did that number come into your head? Sometime about like 20 years ago. Could you pretend that Kill Bill is one? No. If I wanted you to just, okay, here's the thing.

If I were to just stop at Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I could pretend Kill Bill was two. No, Kill Bill's one. I consider Kill Bill one. Okay, that's right. I would consider Kill Bill two if I wanted to just stop at Once Upon a Time.

Right. And it kind of seems like the perfect movie to stop on, all right? So it's mine to fuck up now from here on in. But look, you all know actors,

bands, musicians, singers, sports dudes that you've loved. And when they were doing something new, it was exciting and it was special. And then at a certain point, it's not exciting or special anymore. It doesn't mean that they're without worth, but it's just not the excitement you used to have when blah, blah, blah had a new movie coming out or blah, blah, blah had a new album coming out. You know, it's, I want to retire before I lose to Mike,

before I lose to Leon Spinks. Right, right. I don't want to lose to Leon Spinks. Right. Muhammad Ali. Right, right. I don't want to lose to Leon Spinks. Right. Muhammad Ali. Yeah. Yeah. And leave you wanting more.

And so it's not, you know, it's not like, okay, well, forget about the shit he's doing now, but in the fucking day, that guy was the man.

But you're on top of your game. That's what I don't understand. That's a good, the perfect time. But why do you think there's going to come a time where you're not on top of your game because i know about film history and film directors do not get better as they get older you know but i have a theory on that i just think that they're just they just get too complacent i don't think you're that

guy look i don't think i'm that guy look i don't think i'm that guy. Look, I don't think I'm that guy. Look, I don't think I'm that guy either. But like, but you know, it's almost like you're not saying this, but in the way back, back, back, back behind what you're saying is no motherfucker. We reject you. You don't reject us. We'll tell you when you're done. You don't tell us when you're done. We tell you. I love that you have this

grand plan because to me it's very similar to the way you make films because you've got it all plotted out and you've got an awesome ending to it. I kind of like that. Yeah. But as a fan, it bums me out because I don't think, I think you're better

than you've ever been. I think you've always been awesome but I think Once Upon a Time on Hollywood, there's no sign of slipping. Like, it's fucking fantastic. That's the idea. But I don't think you're going to slip. To stop when the mic still has a 20-pound weight on it and I drop it. Bam! Not a little fey kind of thing and it bounces up a couple times and rolls away.

No. Boom. Do you have a plan for your life after you're done making films? Yeah. I've just had my first son with my lovely, gorgeous wife. Congratulations. Thank you. That's a weird trip, isn't it?

And it's terrific. He's 15 months old. Oh, wow. And he's just he's the most charming human being I've ever met in my life. It's a trip. It's really wild. All the cliches I heard ended up being kind of true.

I look at him and either he's making me laugh hysterically because he's just doing something funny or I just get touched looking at him and I'm in tears. It's like I just go back and forth between laughing and crying because he touches me so much. That's amazing. Yeah, it's hard to explain to people that don't have children. It's a weird transformation that takes place in your mind and just this outpouring of love. And then I'm just, you know, and he's in that 15 month period where it's like, as far as I'm concerned, he could just stay this way for the next five years. All right. Just not get any older. Just stay here. That's doesn't, doesn't work that way. But, um, but the idea

that that's like, he doesn't know what he looks like and he doesn't care. And when he smiles, it's not a conscious decision on his part. It's just because he saw something that makes him smile. When he laughs, there's no thought behind it. It's just it's like he finds it funny. It's pure. When he cries, it's the same thing. He's trying to communicate.

Something bugs him. You know, it's just it's just he's just soconscious. And, and I just like kind of adore that. That's awesome. So you're just going to be a dad. Yeah. It's like, well, I'm also, I'm a writer, you know? So it's like, I'll write books. I'll write both, you know, fiction books and I'll write cinema books. So nonfiction books, I'll write books about cinema. I've written a play. I'll probably intend to do the play after I finish the first two books, and then we'll see how many more of those happen.

And then eventually I'll get around to doing – I'm not in a hurry to do the 10th one. Eventually it will present itself to me. Is your process different for writing a film than it is for writing a book in terms of like, is it more involved? Is it more satisfying?

Well, I've only written one book and it's based on a movie I did. So that was very specific. And I wanted to do a novelization because I was always a big fan of novelizations. They were like the first adult books I ever read when I was a kid in the 70s. So I kind of dug them out and started reading them again. Hey, these are fucking – the good ones are a blast.

Maybe I should do one of these for one of my movies. And I wanted to write novels anyway, so that was a great way to start. But usually when it comes to a movie, it's like I come up with an idea that's an interesting idea. I come up with a couple of characters that are interesting, and it usually deals with a genre that I'm fond of. And then so I think about it, and I think about it. Maybe it gets more clear in my mind. I think about it. Maybe it gets more clear in my mind.

Then usually I go into – because I have a record room in my house. So it's like a little used record store with my vinyl collection. Then I go and I try to find music that could be right for the movie. And if I do that, well, that goes a long way. And then at some point, after thinking about it for a while, I sit down and write what would be the opening scene. And if I catch fire during the opening scene, I go, okay, well, I guess this is the next movie I'm doing. Wow. That's a cool way to do it.

That's why my opening scenes always are impactful, because that's me talking myself into it. That's me trying to get into it. So how do you come up with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? Because you're fucking with a historical timeline. Yeah. I mean, and it's very satisfying and very exciting. Well, I worked on that piece for about eight years because I wasn't in any hurry of getting it done. So I think I was actually, either I was in – no, I wasn't in Austin. I was in London doing promotion work on Death Proof when I think I wrote the first two things on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And it was actually written in book form then.

I wasn't trying to turn it into a movie. And it was written in prose form. And then I kind of discovered who the characters were. And I liked the idea of using this Hollywood knowledge I had that I could pour it into a story. And then so what I would do is – so it started writing. It became book form. Then it became play for a little bit. And then it kind of metamorphosized into a script.

And then in between projects, it's what I would do to get myself back into writing again. And just sort of like syphilis, just kind of – not syphilis. The guy who pushed the rock up the hill. Sisyphus? Sisyphus, yeah. Yeah. He kind of pushed the rock up the hill a littleisyphus? Sisyphus, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just kind of push the rock up the hill a little further, a little further each time. And then, you know, then I'd abandon the rock and go start doing the next thing I was going to do.

And after Hateful Eight, I figured that was going to be the same thing. I'd push it up to a certain point and then stop. And then all of a sudden, oh, no. No, I'm not stopping. It's all coming in. I guess, I guess this is it. I guess this is what I'm going to do it. And so, uh, yeah. So then I just kind of finished it, but it was just this whole idea of taking, making a movie that takes place in this time. I had the two characters, Rick and Cliff, and just dealing in that world.

So you started out in book form and then shifted back and forth play to screenwriting.writing, so that it makes a natural sort of a progression for you to come back and review it as a book. Yeah, I mean because – and the way I – and because I was in no hurry, when I wanted to learn something about the character, I wrote through it. So it was always easy to put like Marvin, the agent, Marvin and Rick together, and then they could talk out any issues about his career. They could talk out any problems Rick had just as a form of that dialogue. Like for instance, okay, in the book, it's not in the movie, in the book, when Rick finishes his Lancer episode, James Stacy, the character Timothy Oliphant played, as, hey, you know, Rick, after work, you want to go grab a drink?

Yeah, sure, let's do that. And so they go to this bar in San Gabriel called the Drinker's Hall of Fame. Now, that bar existed in 1969 because my dad was a piano bar musician, my stepdad. He was a piano bar musician, and he used to play at that bar. And so I wrote like a 20-page scene of Rick and Cliff and James Stacy going to this bar,

and they meet another actor that was a friend of my dad's. And my dad is even in the scene. He's the piano bar musician they even bring me up you know rick gets a autograph for me because i'm a fan of 14 fists mccluskey um and so it all plays out and it's like 20 pages and then uh it explains a lot and it's really cool okay well i didn't even bother to type that up. I mean, that's not going to make the movie. What?

The third act, a 20-minute scene where they go to a bar and shoot the shit for 20 minutes. That's not going to make the movie. But it was rewarding writing it. It was fun writing it and I learned a lot about the characters from writing it. So now when I'm writing a book, it's made to order. Were you obsessed with the Manson family? How much research did you do on what those folks did back then? Well, I did a tremendous amount of research.

I read a bunch of different books on it. I mean, actually, I didn't read Chaos because it hadn't been published yet. I didn't read Chaos until I— Have you read it yet? Yeah, I totally read it. Isn't it fucking incredible? Oh, it's fantastic. No, I actually was even able to call up—Tom O'Neill has a couple mutual friends, and so he sent me the book. Oh, wow. And I read it yet? Yeah, I've totally read it. Isn't it fucking incredible? Oh, it's fantastic. No, I actually was even able to call up Tom O'Neill.

He has a couple of mutual friends, so he sent me the book. Oh, wow. And I read it. And so I was more informed by that when I was writing the book. But I even actually was able to call Tom and talk to him about the book a little bit because I'd come up with some theories on my own. So I was testing some of my theories out on him. And I was even able to ask him a couple of specific questions that could help me in the case of the book. For people who don't know, Tom O'Neill worked on that book for more than 20 years. And it started off as an article that he was hired to write. And then

in researching the article, he realized like there's a lot more to these killings than anybody could have ever possibly imagined, including the CIA doing mind control experiments on prisoners with LSD. And it's just— It's amazing. It's an amazing book. It's an amazing piece of journalism. Yes.

How he managed to carry that through for 20 years is unfathomable. Well, when he came on my podcast, he talked to me about it. That was a great show. That was a great show. That was a great show. Thank you. He's so good. And the weight of this being lifted off of him, having actually given birth to this book

after 20 years of it being his life, it was so, like, you could feel it in him. It's like, wow, I can't believe it's even done. And it's so fucking good and so thorough. And it really makes you question so many of the things that happened during the night you question everything Yeah, but also it's just it's the takedown of Bugliosi which was the number one thing that jumped out at me when I just started the research is when I read Elton I go this doesn't make sense. This is boo. This is all just about his case. Yes

This is about him building a case. Yes. This is about him building a case. Yes. Because he doesn't have a case. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And then, you know, Charlie and the girls act so fucking crazy that they prop up this ridiculous Yeah. you know, pseudo story. But the fact

that Charlie kept getting out of jail Oh, that's amazing. And again, the other books talk about that and you go, how can that be? How can that be? And then O'Neill kind of explains to you how it could be. Yeah. Well, not only that, but he

establishes that there was a real there was real operations like Operation Midnight Climax. Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. But you realize, no, no, this isn't just bad luck or good luck on Charlie's point. But the other books just kind of keep chalking it up to that. Yeah. Well, I think it took someone doing a 10-year deep dive on the Manson family killings to

really find out what the truth of the story was. Yeah. I mean, look, I come from a place that I don't know this. And for everything I can say that backs up my theory, I can also point out a couple things that kick my theory in the shins to some degree or another. So working from the idea that everything Bookliosi suggested happened is bullshit. So just working from that thing. I think it's entirely possible. I believe

and it's just a belief. I don't believe Charlie sent Tex and the girls to Cielo Drive to murder everybody. I don't think he sent them there to do that.

He actually did after they did what they did. Yes, they did go out the next night and kill the LaBiancas and he orchestrated that. He was the stage manager of that. I think it's possible that it is like Charlie said, that he just sent them out to do something freaky, do a creepy crawl, and got carried out of hand. Because supposedly the girls didn't know what they were supposed to do until after they had already climbed the fence and were on the property. They all thought it was a creepy crawl. If he meant to send them out there, it doesn't make any motherfucking sense that he wouldn't mention it. He wouldn't talk.

He would only talk to Tex. He didn't let them take a shit, you know, without a 20 minute pep talk about what they were doing and what's going on. But also, it doesn't make any sense if that was the plan to bring Linda Kasabian with them. She didn't even have a nickname. She was just, you know, she wasn't indoctrinated. She was just brand new to the place. Now, in the Bugliosi book, well, then what the fuck is she doing there? And then the answer is, you know, and the answer, well, she's the only one that had a driver's license, but they didn't let her drive. She didn't drive to there and she didn't drive away.

Tex was driving. I mean, if the plan is to go and kill everybody in the Cielo Drive house, why isn't Squeaky sitting in that seat instead of Linda Kasabian? Why isn't Clem sitting in that seat? Why isn't Sandra Good sitting in that seat? Why isn't Ruthann Morehouse sitting in that seat? Why isn't Sandra Good sitting in that seat? Why isn't Ruthann Morehouse sitting in that seat? It doesn't make any sense if the plan was to murder everybody, to send somebody who is not fully adopted into the cult where you had everybody else who absolutely were. Now, I'm not saying, yes, he killed Shorty Shea and he was responsible for the Gary Hinman murder. So I'm not saying he hadn't committed murder. I just don't think he sent them there to commit murder that night. I think that was pretty much Texas fucking idea. And I also think that it wasn't even his 100% idea until it all kind of happened.

I think possibly they went over the fence, and when Gary Parent, the guy who was visiting the guy in the back house, came driving up, I think it's possible that he startled them. And it was an impulse killing when they shot the guy in the car. And then after that, they were committed. So when you're sitting on this story and you're doing research on this, you're reading all these books on the Manson family, and you're putting together the idea first for the pros and then for eventually this film, this has got to be like – first, it's a wild choice to change the timeline. So what was that about? Well, it was just, it sounded like,

I had already done something like that with Inglourious Basterds and I enjoyed it and other people seemed to enjoy it. And so it's like, that's mine. I can do that. You can't do that. I can do it. You're ripping me off if you do it.

I'm not ripping myself off. That's true, right? It's my thing. Has no one else ever done that before? A long time ago and everything. And I think books. Books. There'll be a lot of World War II speculative fiction that happens and stuff.

So I decided to do it. But – so I decided to do it and like you asked me have I always been fascinated with the – obsessed with the Manson family. No, I was never necessarily obsessed with the Manson family. But if you grow up in Los Angeles, you grow up with it as part of your culture. Right. It's part of their – and in particularly like the Gen X kids always had a thing about the Manson family and a real true fascination. Because you were really young when it was going down. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, we were all just like young enough to like, you know, heard the name Manson. Right. When we were like four or six or something on the news. And then like you learn about it. And then like, you know, we remember the time when Helter Skelter played on television and everybody had that fucking book yeah everyone knows what the fucking book looks like and um you know and so the uh you know so the idea is you know with cliff we make him like one of the most dangerous dudes who ever fucking lived and whoa, on that night they go to Cliff and they deal with him. And, well, okay, I guess it goes a little differently now.

Now you're not dealing with Sharon and Jay. I got a crack up because, you know, I'm friendly with Dan Aykroyd and his wife Donna. And so I kind of tell them about the movie and then the movie comes out and they go see it and Dan leaves a little message on my answering machine

and goes, hey Quentin, how you doing? Just letting you know, me and Donna, we went and saw the film and it was terrific. No need to call us back.

Just letting you know, we saw it and had a good time and boy, oh boy, those hippies sure picked the wrong fucking house that night, huh? Well, there was a lot.

Dan Aykroyd, first of all, is a strange character. Very interesting guy. I love talking to him, but he's obsessed with UFOs. Oh, yeah. I think his dad is, too, actually. It's a family thing. And vodka. Yes.

The skull vodka. Yeah. He gave me a case of it. But the UFO thing with him is like, it's wild, man. He's like a full-on true believer. It's a weird conversation when you have with him. Because you think of the guy from Ghostbusters. You never think you're going to be sitting across from him talking to him about UFOs.

Well, I mean, but that's actually one of the things in Ghostbusters. from talking to him about UFOs. Well, I mean, but that's actually one of the things in Ghostbusters is one of the things I always liked about it is the Dan Aykroyd character is played very, very straight. Every time, like, you know, he's always coming up with this really interesting fact about paranormal this or paranormal that. And it's like, it's never played for laughs. Right, right.

His, like, you know, his connection to the paranormal is actually always played very, very straight. I guess he's probably always had that thing. Another thing in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that got controversial was the Bruce Lee scenes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A lot of people felt like you made Bruce Lee into an asshole. Yeah.

Well, okay. That's okay. I'm a little hesitant to talk about this because I don't want this to be the only thing that people pull from this show. But I figured you were going to bring it up especially because I've heard you guys go back and forth on it a little bit. I mean, where I'm coming from is I can understand his daughter having a problem with it. It's her fucking father, all right?

I get that. But anybody else, go suck a dick. And the thing about it, though, is even if you just look at it, it's obvious Cliff tricked him. That's how he was able to do it. He tricked him.

It's explained more in the book. But the thing is, like, they do a two falls out of three contest. So Cliff loves shit like that, you know, and he has a method. And his method is to give the guy the first fall. Okay, do your fucking the first fall. Okay. Do your fucking move, dude. Right. Let me see your move. All right.

And he gives him no resistance whatsoever. The guy does the move. He knocks him on his ass. And Cliff – and there's like four different ways Bruce could have come at him the second time that Cliff would have had very little defense against. But most of the time, if a guy has a particular move and it looks like the guy's a lunkhead, just a big mouth who can't really defend himself,

they do the second move again. I mean, they do the first move again, second time. Well, now Cliff knows what it is. So he prepares for it. He pivots. He catches him. He throws his ass into the car. Right. You know, and now the third time will be the charm and he gets broken up. But he just tricked him. And Bruce realized he got

tricked. If Cliff hadn't been so vicious, he could have even appreciated it. Do you know about the history of Bruce and Gene LaBelle? Yeah, of course. Did you research that before? Yeah, well, I've always known it and everything. And like, well, I've always known it and everything. And like, well, the stuntman hated Bruce. Really?

On Green Hornet. No, it's in Matthew Polly's book. And before that, it's always been known. That's why Gene LaBelle was brought on, to teach Bruce respect for American stuntmen. Bruce had nothing but disrespect for stuntmen. And he was always hitting them. He was always hitting them with his feet. He was always tagging.

It's called tagging. When you hit a stuntman for real. And he was always tagging them with his feet. And he was always tagging them with his fist. And they got to be the point where, like, no, I refuse to work with him. Really? And he had nothing but disrespect for American stuntmen. Huh. That's interesting.

I wonder what that was about. I wonder what his perspective would have been if somebody asked him to explain it uh it's like uh oh they're just not good enough they're they're pussies i want to make it look real okay so he was hitting them to make it look real yeah yeah but they don't like that no that's unprofessional well that is unprofessional but that's been done before in a bunch of movies by people that people say are assholes. Yeah. And, well, and, you know, and actually somebody else who had a reputation pretty similar to Bruce Lee's in that regards was like Robert Conrad.

Oh, yeah. During that time. Yeah. And, you know, he did a lot of his own stunts and he did some really, reallynarly shit but if you and i've always been a big fan of robert conrad but you know in the stunt community he was known as robert never met a stuntman he couldn't blame conrad the stunt world is a fucking crazy world because they're the people that occasionally die making movies yeah absolutely which is just nuts and look the thing about it is also Cliff is a hand-to-hand combat killer.

He, you know, he fought in World War II. He fought with the Filipino resistant fighters, you know, in the Philippines against the Japanese. If Cliff fought Bruce Lee at one of Aaron Banks' Madison Square Garden tournaments, Cliff wouldn't stand a chance against Bruce Lee at a Madison Square Garden martial arts tournament.

But as a killer who has killed men before in a jungle, he'd kill Bruce Lee. He'd fucking kill him. Bruce Lee's not a killer. Bruce Lee's never really let loose on anybody. He's always had to keep it together in a martial arts tournament kind of way. If he's actually facing a guy who could actually kill him, it's a different story. It's in the book. It's a different story.

It's in the book. Bruce Lee realizes when Cliff takes a military hand-to-hand combat stance, he realizes, oh, shit, this guy's a killer. This guy's not fighting me. He's fighting his instinct to kill me. How much did you research martial arts when you were watching that? How much knowledge do you have about martial arts? Quite a bit, at least as far as the practitioners of it and everything, yeah. But as far as how fights go down and different styles and things like those? Well, pretty much.

I mean, at a certain point, I was choreographing the fights in Kill Bill. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And it was like the stunt team that was executing them. Well, you have this deep love for those Hong Kong films as well, right? Right, exactly. Yeah, look, in real life, look, the phoniest thing in movies is a kung fu film. Yeah. Because in real life, no, somebody's going to fuck up and the fight's going to be over in 30 seconds. Right.

You can't do that. It's like somebody's going to fuck up and the fight's going to be over in 30 seconds. Right. You can't do that. It's like somebody's going to make a mistake. And then that's when, like, you know, bam, your jaw is broken on the fucking ground or your wrist is broken or something. win not gonna win a kill or be killed fight with a fucking Green Beret

who has killed guys 30 pounds heavier than them in fucking war well in the real world Bruce Lee was quite a bit smaller than most people too

yeah I think he was only like 140 pounds or something like that and you know and uh you know he never learned

how to take a punch you know and he'll say well you can punch me yeah okay well you know okay you know, he never learned how to take a punch, you know, and he'll say, well, you can punch me. Yeah, okay. Well, you know, okay. You know, let me see you be Jerry Quarry. Fight Ali for four rounds with a busted jaw. Well, he's a tiny guy.

There's no way that was ever going to happen. Well, there, exactly. But people talk about it like he's fucking Jesus. Yeah, people do. talk about it like he's fucking Jesus. Yeah, people do. In the martial arts world, there was this dogmatic approach that was, it was almost like religion. You had to believe wholeheartedly in your style.

If you're a Kung Fu guy, you believe in Wing Chun, that was your thing. If you believed in karate, that was your thing. Judo, whatever it was. You were fully committed and you only trained in that style he was the first guy and he did this in the 1960s and the 70s that decided to combine right all these arts together and put it together as jeet kune do and no one not only had no one done that but it was like highly frowned upon and look and the is, I'm not putting him down. I'm actually a big Bruce Lee fan. I think, and the dragon's a piece of shit,

but Fist of Fury is fucking great. That's one of the greatest action movies ever made, when he goes and fights the Japanese in the dojo, and that's one of the great action scenes of all time. And he is a magnificent athlete. There's no

two questions. He may be the greatest martial art practitioner as an athlete. There's no two questions. He may be the greatest martial art practitioner as an athlete, as somebody who went on a career to promote it. And it bugged him that he couldn't fight the way boxers fight.

They always had to do patty kick. They always had to hold their blows. He always looked at it as like, no, that's true combat. I had to do patty cake. They always had to hold their blows. He always looked at it as like, no, see, that's true combat. I want to do combat and they won't let me do combat. But boxers do combat. But I was like talking with Matthew Polly who wrote the biography on Bruce Lee. And he goes, well, you got to know that like the number one question Bruce Lee was asked all the time is, well, what would, like, you got to know that, like, the number one question Bruce Lee was asked all the time is,

well, what would happen if you and Muhammad Ali fought? Right. And he had different answers. Sometimes, you know, John Saxon would ask him on Enter the Dragon, he'd go, are you kidding? That guy's hands are as big as my head. But then other times, he had other answers.

And it's like, you know, Bruce didn't think anybody could beat him in a fight at the end of the day. All right. And, you know, and he watched Ali's tape. He watched 16 millimeter films of Ali fighting. And it's one of those things where, ah, he drops his left. Okay. Well, okay.

Well, the trick is I got to be able to fight him without gloves and I got to have kicking privileges. Okay. That would be the trick. Well, you know, Ali, he had that one fight with Inoki. Did you ever see that? I've heard of it, yeah. It's pretty wild. He had a boxing match where Inoki, it was a fight. Inoki was allowed to kick him, but he did it off of his back.

So Inoki literally dropped to his back and was kicking Ali's legs. Oh, yeah. Like when that big wrestler guy fought Ali and he spent the entire time on his back. Well, that was him. Oh, that same guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's him. Yeah.

So it's like Ali had done some weird stuff too. And that was when Ali was the champ. So it's a bizarre choice. That was a crazy. Yeah. and that was when Ali was the champ. So it's a bizarre choice. That was a crazy, yeah. Yeah, but... Did it bother you, the controversy, the Bruce Lee thing? Did you feel like...

Yeah, well, like I said, I understood where his family was coming from. I didn't understand where anybody else was coming from. They could pound sand. Well, you have to have that attitude to make the kind of films you make. Yeah, right. You know? I mean, like, also, I was going to say, it's like, they'll come back to me later. Is that the biggest controversy in that regard in terms of content of any any of the

movies you've ever made oh god no no like what's the biggest well like uh like the violent the violence was like considered a big deal all right when reservoir dogs came out uh the torture scene yeah the torture scene and then like you know um and then with hateful Eight, there was this thing about violence against women because of what happens to Jennifer Jason Leigh, which I think is just bullshit because there's nothing that happens to her that couldn't have happened to a man in that same situation. I would just use an analogy. Okay, well, instead of Daisy Domergue, it's Big Bill Shelley, a guy 250 pounds with a big old fucking Grizzly Adams beard or something like that. You wouldn't think shit about Kurt Russell smacking him all the time, man. You wouldn't think shit about hanging him. You wouldn't think about shit about any of that stuff happening to him. Okay, well, I'm having it happen to a girl who's just as bad as Big Bill Shelley.

Right. Because I'm not playing fucking favorites. Yeah, there's a thing that you, that's what I was talking about, about you being grandfathered in in many ways. It's like you're willing to do that even though you know that a lot of people are going to have an issue

with a woman, even if it's a bad woman. Well, it makes it, yeah, I know. But look, and the thing is, it does make it a little harder to watch, but I'm down with it being harder to watch. Good. It's a fucking rough movie. Yeah.

It's supposed to hurt. It's supposed to hurt. You know, when it's like a kind of a black family, vag that's that runs the uh uh the stagecoach release place and then uh daisy's gang murders them all well having them black makes it hurt more well good it's supposed to hurt this attitude towards making films like is this there's not a lot of people that share this attitude. You know, it's hard. Is it hard? What is it about this, like, doing a film where it's such a unique vision? Like, it's so clearly the vision of one man and a wild man at that that's willing to make these kind of films.

But this is not common. There's not a lot of people that make movies the way you do. It's a very, very tiny percentage. Yeah, but that's why I like of people that make movies the way you do. It's a very, very tiny percentage. Yeah, but that's why I like the people that I like. I mean, Brian De Palma was criticized for misogyny throughout his entire career. He told them all to fuck off. He was like, no, I'm making scary movies. And you put Nancy Allen in that situation, and it's going to be scarier you know, you put Nancy Allen in that situation

and it's going to be scarier than if I put Roy Scheider in that situation. Right. Because I'm more worried for Nancy Allen. Jesus Christ, Roy Scheider killed Jaws. He's going to be scared of a black glove killer? No, probably not. And it was just like, no, this is a convention of the genre

and I'm using this genre for my purposes. Or Sam Peckinpah does the movies he wants to make, and if you don't like it, don't go see it. And Sergio Leone or any of these guys. Going freaking doing cruising. You don't like it? Fuck off. Well, I love the attitude, but it just seems insanely difficult if you're a person that is dealing with this whole committee of human beings. You have executives and producers and you have all these different folks that are exerting their influence on something.

But you've managed to get your vision in a very, in many ways, pure. Yeah. No, look, look, look. I'm lucky. There's like no doubt about it. I've, uh, uh, I've had a wonderful situation. I've had a wonderful ride. Um, I've been able to make movies ever since I did the first one, Reservoir Dogs, that set me up. I had luck with my second one that it was really successful. So I was able to really, really make them. And I was, you know, I never wrote a script that I couldn't

get going. It's like every next one was okay, wherever I happen to be at that given time was going to be the next movie I did. And I, you know, I might argue about this or that and the other, but I was allowed to make the movies the way I wanted to make them. And it's been all the way to now. And I never have to answer to a committee, you know, like in the case of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, it's like, no, I was, you know, I was answering to, he was financing it. I was answering to Tom Rothman, the head of Columbia Pictures. And so it wasn't a committee. It was him. So we had an issue.

We talked about it and whatever. But I want to be a good partner, so I'm listening to him, but I'm not going to stab my move in the balls. Was there some stuff in that movie that he thought was not appropriate or not too dangerous? More like he would wince at stuff. He goes, Quinn, they're going to go after you for this. Well, that's okay.

I can handle it. I'm trying to help you, man. But it's not helping you, right? Ultimately. I know what he means. All right. Look, I know what he means. And would I rather not have to deal with controversy

the first week the movie comes out? And so that's what everybody's talking about as opposed to the movie? No, that be it that would be you know that would be counterproductive i don't care if they talk about it later just maybe not the first fucking week but your films they they have to have controversy there's just no way it's just well then like well no one's gonna agree on everything you do well also you you know but there's also this. There's also like, OK, there's real controversy. And then there's like, OK, this guy or this woman is going to write a think piece in The New Yorker about my movie or in the Los Angeles Times or in The New York Times. And they're going to write some think piece about it on this website or that website.

or in the New York Times, and they're going to write some think piece about it or on this website or that website. And they're going to go against it and talk about, oh, this is a retrograde vision, or this is a regressive vision, or Quentin has become right-wing, and this movie has a right-wing bent because of the way they, you know, Quentin is identifying with Rick Dalton the fucking hippies that's how it's going is that really a take that someone had that you've become right

wing because of the character in the film yeah even like a critic who liked it A.O. Scott goes well it just this seems this whole vision seems more on the right than you would imagine for Quentin Tarantino I mean it doesn't necessarily make it wrong make it bad but it just seems like more on the right well you would imagine for Quentin Tarantino. I mean, it doesn't necessarily make it wrong, make it bad, but it just seems like

more on the right. Well, Rick is coming from a place more on the right, not me, per se, but I am telling the story through Rick's point of view.

And then, you know, they say something, well, how come they don't talk about, you know, how come there aren't more black characters in the movie?

How come they don't talk about the Vietnam War more? Well, basically, the movie takes place between two days. Well, they didn't bump into Jim Brown right on those two days. All right? You know, they saw who they fucking saw

during those two days. Well, they didn't have a conversation about Vietnam in those two days. I can't just deal with all the hot-button issues if I'm set up in a thing between two days. Oh, Margaret Robbie doesn't talk enough. She spends the entire movie by her fucking self. I could have given her a – if you're just counting lines, I could have put Mr. Saperstein in the car with her dog.

And she could have just been having a running commentary with her dog about picking up Roman's dry cleaning and getting the book. And maybe I'll go see the movie. And well, that would have actually take care of that would have take care of the line count, but it would have been bullshit. Right. It doesn't seem like part of the problem is just that it came out during the time where Trump was president. And that's one of the reasons why these political takes on things like that he's more to the right. I just I can't imagine anybody would think that you're you're leaning right now that Quentin is becoming right because your character is it seems so stupid. But it's that it's more of a like it's just a statement about the political politicalization of everything.

Well, I think you're right. I think you're correct. And the thing about it, though, is, look, those kind of like academic college think pieces, they're just fine. Like in a college situation, they make sense. I can take a book or a movie and come up with some argument that goes, you know, that's like a, that's more of a subtextual argument about a film. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it means I can make my little argument,

you know, for the course, but it doesn't, but I have no illusions that that's what the director was thinking about. And ultimately when it comes to subtextual criticism, it doesn't matter. It's simply you making your little case, but in the heat of the moment they're actually treated more seriously than that how do you parse out when you when you have experienced criticism about a film do you do you go over that criticism do you read it or do you just get to a point where you're like you know what i know what i did i love what i did i don't give a fuck well i i like to write film criticism so i can like so i can take it with a grain of salt. One, if I know who they are, then I have a sense of where they're coming from and what they're talking about.

But within three paragraphs, I see where this guy or woman is coming from. And they either like my stuff or they don't like it. stuff or they don't like it. And if they're inclined to like my stuff and they go negative on it, that's interesting to see what it is that did that. I mean, a lot of the critics that like me didn't like Hateful Eight. It all came down to the fact that it was just too rough a vision for them. It was just too cynical. It was too cruel.

That's one of my favorite movies because I movies. I feel like, wow, that's the Sam Peckinpah movie I always wanted to make. It's a fucking cruel, pitiless vision. But it's called The Hateful Eight. The idea is there's no good guys in the movie. They're all fuckers. Yeah.

Except for the stagecoach driver. That's why he's nine. He's not part of The Hateful Eight. But it's one of your best movies, and it's a great example of a Tarantino movie in that there is no bad. There is no good. Yeah. It's all bad guys, and it's still incredibly enjoyable. That's how I think, yeah.

And chaos. And so I actually kind of took it as a badge of honor that the people who like my movies, they didn't say they didn't like this, but it was just too rough for them. And it was like, I think A.O. Scott, who's always been a pretty good champion of mine, he said something to the effect of, well, Tarantino's playing with racism and misogyny and gruesomeness. And there's really no way you can do that and keep your hands clean. That's a good way to put it. It is a good way to put it. And I was like, who wants clean hands?

Yeah. Yeah. I make hateful late to get them dirty. Right. You're in the wild movie business. Yeah. Yeah. There's no clean hands in the wild movie business. Yeah. Yeah, there's no clean hands in the wild movie business. Yeah.

Well said. When you think that you have this one more film to make, is there more weight on that or you just do your fucking thing? The weight was really on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Really? That's kind of like my big epic. That's like my big wrap up the career kind of epic. And I think I did it.

So I don't know what the next story is going to be. I'm imagining it'll be more epilogue-y. Like this is the big one. And then whatever I end up doing for that last one. Like I said, more of an epilogue, just as you're wrapping up the career. But you don't have a specific idea. I have no idea. Do you have a timeline?

No. No, I hope to do two more books. Well, I mean, one more book, and then do a play, and then we'll see where we are. We'll see if another story has come. I mean, the only one I can imagine where it would be another epic,

where I need to outdo everything is if I did a Kill Bill 3. Have you thought of that? I've thought of it, yeah. I heard something about a redo of Reservoir Dogs. Is that bullshit? Well, I considered it. Yeah?

I considered, I thought it would be something interesting about taking my first script and then just remaking it with different actors and just seeing how better a director

I've become because I actually think the material is timeless enough. I could do that. But I think, that's not really how I want to end the career.

But I could very well write a stage version of Reservoir Dogs when I'm doing theater and then just do it on stage. I plan on doing – I've got a first play that I've just wrote – that I wrote actually after I – before I started doing the movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I wrote the script. Then I didn't let anybody know I had finished it. And then I wrote a play. And then I wrote five episodes of Bounty Law, and then I let the script down.

But I want to do Hateful Eight later on stage, and I want to do Reservoir Dogs later on stage. Wow. Hateful Eight as a play would be pretty fucking wild. Kill Bill Part 3. You need some water? Yeah, I do, actually. But I could see myself also doing... I don't know if I would do... I doubt I'll do novelizations for everything I've written, but I could see myself writing a novelization

for Reservoir Dogs. That would be cool. Yeah, it would play well as a novel. Yeah, and in the bookstore, it's already got its section ready to go in the mystery the mystery crime section and go right there under the keys now what with kill bill three i mean it's you already have these two epic films is there like something that you felt was unresolved in the first two or would you like to revisit the characters well Well, I think it's just revisiting the characters 20 years

later, just imagining the bride and her daughter Bebe having 20 years of peace. And then that peace is shattered. And now the bride and her daughter, bride and Bebe are on the run.

And just the idea of being able to cast Uma and cast her daughter Maya. And the thing would be fucking exciting. Yeah. No. And L driver's still out there. Sophie Fatale got her arms cut off. She's still out there.

Right. Right. Right. They all got Bill's money. Yeah. Actually, uh, uh,

uh, Gogo had a twin sister, Chiaki. All right. Uh, uh, uh, uh, and so like her twin sister, Shiaki. All right. And so like her twin sister could show up. What was David Carradine like?

He was great. He was a great fan. I grew up on that show. Yeah, me too. It was wild to him and him in that movie. I was like, wow, what a great choice. But perfect Tarantino-esque choice to have. but perfect Tarantino esque choice to have well you know how I ended up casting him was because I read his autobiography around the same time that I was like doing you know wrapping up the writing of Kill Bill and he wrote a

biography called endless highway and it's one of the best actor biographies I ever read he was a really really, really terrific writer. The way he wrote, it was a little bit like Mark Twain. It was a little bit like Charles Dickens and a little bit like Jack Kerouac, but also a lot like David Carradine. And he had this kind of Charles Dickens-like life, like from the time he was a little boy. So he's just kind of telling these stories. And I mean, they're just absolutely fascinating. What a life. And then as I'm reading, I go, wow, he could be Bill, you know, and not just because of his lineage is quite Chan Cain. All right. But like he could be a real interesting Bill. And

just even the fact that he's sort of like this Eastern cowboy. He has this Eastern mysticism aspect about him, but he also has just full-on Western cowboy shit about him, too. Well, that sounds like Bill. Yeah. You know, that TV show

was supposed to be Bruce Lee, too, right? No, it wasn't. It wasn't? Is that bullshit? Yeah, it's a complete lie. Really? Yeah, I mean, it's like Linda Lee just has completely lied about that in that book she wrote, Bruce Lee, the man only I knew.

The man only she knew. Well, Betty Taiping, the mistress, so his bed he died in, probably knew him a little bit too. I mean, Bruce Lee died in his mistress's bed. Yeah, what did he die from? It was like complications from a medication? Something, yeah.

Yeah. But she wrote this book called Bruce Lee, The Man Only I Know, which was actually the first biography I ever read. And in the book, she claims that Bruce had written this idea for a TV show called The Warrior and that Warner Brothers read The Warrior and ripped it off. And then they wrote Kung Fu. And then they read Bruce Lee but decided not to use him because they're racist, and then, boom, they cast David Carradine. Okay, Kung Fu was written by a guy named, I believe his name is David Abramson. Abrams or Abramson?

Ed Abramson. Abrams or Abramson? Ed Abramson. I might be pronouncing it wrong, but it's a name like that. Okay. Well, this is pretty fucking clear. Ed Abramson either ripped off Bruce Lee's treatment for the warrior or he didn't. Ed Abramson, either who was an established TV writer, he also wrote the movie Gordon's War that Ossie Davis directed. He either created Kwai Chang Kane or Bruce Lee did. He's either guilty of plagiarism or he's not. Well, he's not. He created, Well, he's not. He created – he never saw this warrior thing. He created – and he has the – I talked to the author of the book about Bruce Lee, Matthew Pauly. He said, oh, man, when I called Ed Abrams up, oh, my God. It was the phone call he'd been waiting 40 years for because he's had to put up with this all this time. He had all the information. He had all the documentation of how he wrote the script and how he came up with Kawhi Chan Kane. You know, he wrote that script.

He created Kawhi Chan Kane. All right. Now, OK, so let's also look at it from a different point of view. So maybe Ed Abramson didn't rip off the warrior okay but maybe say warner brothers did say warner brothers hey this is a great idea okay so this is written so again imagine warner brothers saying this okay so this is written by like the greatest martial artist guy of all time let's get rid of him first thing first thing first thing let's get rid of him we don't't want him involved. Why would we want him involved?

Let's get rid of him. And now we'll just hire some guy, but we won't tell him that it's based on this guy's treatment called the warrior. We won't tell him that. Well, if they did that and then the show becomes the phenomena, it becomes not just a hit, a phenomena, like the biggest show of its era, like that and all in the family. Well, I was the Lee family. I'd be kind of mad at Warner Brothers, wouldn't you? To rip me off so bad? Yes.

Okay. Well, naturally. Okay. But when Bruce Lee is sitting in the catbird seat and he does his first studio film, Enter the Dragon, who does he do it with? Warner Brothers. Right, but maybe they worked out some sort of a thing. No, but they didn't. They definitely didn't. Well, then why isn't Linda Lee talking about that?

They didn't work out some money thing. It's like, okay, not only that, her book is published by Warner Books. Hmm. But the reality is this, and it's in Matthew Pauly's book. Not only did Bruce Lee not write The Warrior before Kung Fu came about, he wrote it afterwards. He wrote it after he had read the Kung Fu script really? yes

and he read the Kung Fu script he tried out for it they didn't use him because they couldn't understand him when he talked and it was actually between the three people it was between was Bruce Lee

William Smith who's William Smith? oh Falcon Eddie from Rich Man Poor Man oh okay you know the big muscle guy he's in all the biker movies. Conan's father

in Conan. And the head Russian dude in Red Dawn. Okay. And David Carradine. Because David Carradine had just done the play Royal Hunt of the Sun, and part of it was he played the head of the Incas. And he had this big, crazy

dance in it that was excited Broadway. And David Carradine got it. After he didn't get Kung Fu, that's when he wrote The Warrior. And he took elements from Ed Abrams' Kung Fu script and put it in The Warrior. and put it in The Warrior. And Matthew Polly's book even says, well, you know, Bruce had a Hong Kong idea of plagiarism, which is everything is takeable as long as you can take it.

All right. But anyway, that's not— Okay, anyway, all that is what that is. However, Linda Lee says in the book that— and this has been championed for years, that Warner Brothers stole the idea from Bruce Lee's The Warrior. And then they shitcanned him and they stole his idea that he's the one that came up with Kung Fu. That's a complete lie. Then they parroted it again in that Dragon movie

with Jason Lee. It's said again. And Ed Abrams is all ready to sue them. Okay, woman, I've got you now. I've been putting up with this shit for 20 years. And then Brandon Lee died. And then he was like, okay, she just lost her son. I'm not going to fucking do it.

All right. But what would be really funny is Linda Lee is now producing that show Warrior based on Bruce Lee's original treatment. who wrote Kung Fu and has had this lie put out about him forever if he sued them for plagiarism for The Warrior. Wow, that's a bombshell, dude. That's crazy. It's all backed up. It's all right there. I believe you.

It's wild, though. That's a wild take on history because the history of film and then also the history of martial arts. It's like Bruce Lee is such a pivotal. Yeah. Hey, look, I'm not putting Bruce Lee down in this. I'm saying his wife is a liar. I'm saying his widow is a fucking liar.

She lied about that. You know, it's either she's 100 percent telling the truth or Ed Abrams is. And Ed Abrams is. Is it possible that he lied to her and that she didn't know? What do you mean? That Bruce lied to her about the script? I mean, it's possible that she's— Well, okay, you can say she didn't know.

Well, she's the one writing the fucking book. It's her job to know. He might have told her something that's not accurate, and she went with it. I guess that's possible. But when you write it in a book, you take responsibility for it. You check out. Is your husband a loudmouth? Does he say a bunch of shit that's not

true? Yeah. Damn, this is heavy. This is heavy shit for Bruce Lee fans. Yikes. As far as I know, Bruce Lee never said, hey, I came up with with kung fu it's Linda Lee's book who said it I see what you're saying yeah it's it's a claim in Linda Lee's book

that tv show for martial arts and for for it was just like when I was a kid I mean it was a giant show I mean everybody called everybody grasshopper when you're trying to make a profound point. No, not only that. It happens every once in a while with TV shows where when a TV show hits in the zeitgeist exactly the way— Like lost. It does. It's like if it's built around a star, that star is not like a normal TV star. He's like a rock star for a while.

David Carradine became a rock star in the early 70s because of that show. The way Don Johnson became like a rock star for that first season, first two seasons of Miami Vice. Did you talk to him about that when you were doing Kill Bill? Oh yeah, we talked about it a lot.

That had to be a trip for him. One of the things that was so interesting about that show is they're always like teaching the little lessons when they go. He sees something going on in the Old West and then he remembers back to being at the Shaolin Temple where a similar lesson is taught. And it's just kind of crazy for them to do this like TV show that deals with Buddhism and everything and for them to get

the Buddhism part so right. I mean, those are the best parts of the show were those little lessons and they always were very profound and they had a real poetry to them. And I found out from David that, okay,

we're not really using the Shaolin Temple theories. It's pretty much Confucianism. So we took anything that we thought worked. We took stuff from American Indians. We took stuff from this and that. But basically, the philosophies that Cain

is learning is Confucianism. And you could have really done that in a very clunky manner. And it really wasn't. No, that's what I'm saying. You would expect if ABC is going to do something like that, it's going to be clunky or it's going to be obvious or it's going to be like the most risable part of the fucking show as opposed to the most meaningful part. Yeah. And it was also interesting. He also said that he goes, we never let outside writers write those scenes. So if you weren't part of the writing team, if you wrote a script for Kung Fu,

they always tried to write those scenes. But we only let the writers, the people who are on the show, write those scenes. They would always take out, if you were writing a spec script, they would take out your lesson and write their own. That's interesting. Because they were tuned into it.

Yeah, they knew what they were tuned into it yeah yeah they knew what they were doing tone yeah yeah and they i mean looking back on it now i mean even if you were a type of person was really cynical and called bullshit like they were good they were good lessons man yeah which is interesting for you know no i mean one i remember it's really interesting where it's like uh um it's like one with andryne where he's a gunfighter and he gets killed and the woman falls in love with him and she's sitting there crying and

Kane is consoling her and she says something about every time I've said it it kind of lays an egg but I thought it was profound in the show you know Kane goes he's comforting her and she goes it's just such a waste profound in the show. You know, Kane goes, he's comforting her and she goes,

it's just such a waste. It's just such a waste. He goes, well, it's sad and it's loss. I don't know if it's a waste. It's loss. But in this loss, you're feeling pain.

And the pain is reminding you what it's like to be human. And in that, there's gain. Wow. This is heavy for a time that was – it synced up with like the $6 million man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think about what else was on TV at the time, right? Or like the whole little – there's like the little moment when the young grasshopper is by a pool in the Chow Yun Temple and he's crying. And Master Po, the blind one, Key Luke, comes up to him and goes, oh, grasshopper, what's with the tears? What's the matter? He goes, well, because I'm all alone in the world.

What's the matter? My parents are dead. I'm all alone in the world. That's what's the matter. My parents are dead. I'm all by myself in China. You know, I'm all alone. Okay. Grasshopper, close your eyes. What do you hear? Listen, listen.

What do you really hear? Well, I hear the fish swimming in the stream. Okay, what else do you hear? Well, I hear the birds in the trees. Okay, what else do you hear? I hear the insects buzzing around. Silly boy, crying of being all alone in such a crowded place. in such a crowded place.

It's kind of amazing that that show got made that way when you really think about it. And it was a phenomena. Yeah, it really was. Well, it was one of the things that got me really interested in martial arts other than Bruce Lee movies.

I bet. And there wouldn't be any Bruce Lee movies without Kung Fu. It was the idea that like, it was because of Kung Fu that Warner Brothers bought Five Fingers of Death. Really?

Yeah, and released it. And that started the whole martial arts wave. And like Five Fingers of Death was the first one and then they came out with Big Boss, which they call Fist of Fury, and then Chinese Connection, which they called, which was Fist of Fury that they called Chinese Connection. It's interesting too because

Kwajeng Kane's take on violence was so reluctant. Yeah, yeah. And he was a completely different guy. Like, he was this pacifist hero who didn't really want money. He didn't want anything. He was just kind of wandering around homeless through the world. And occasionally, you'd have to fuck people up. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right. Like, you had to be on his side. Oh, yeah. He was never the guy that was, like, taking his shirt off and flexing his abs. No, he was – I mean I really think he was one of the greatest characters in the history of television. And I really think David Carradine's performance in that was just – was amazing. I mean there is a reason why he became a phenomenon. It was because of David Carradine's performance.

I mean just – Bruce Lee was never the actor that david carradine was ever ever no he was amazing in that show and it's kind of fucked when when you're a guy that's playing a character like quite chan cane you you stay that character to people yeah and it's very difficult for a guy like that to break out of that and then go off to do something that's but then he-huh. And it's very difficult for a guy like that to break out of that and then go off to do something that's completely different. But then he did it with Kill Bill.

I mean, there's a whole lot of, I mean, there's a, yeah, so many years later, but I mean, like, now there's like three generations, like, Kwai Chai and who? He's Bill.

Right, of course. He's fucking Bill. He's Bill. Yeah, that is true. It just took time for people to get past it. But for so many, they're imprisoned

by these massive roles. Like, no matter what they do, they can't escape the gravity of what that first big breakout role was. Yeah, but even just to say what I was saying before, it's like, okay,

so when, like, the show goes off the air and then about, like, 10 years later, they do a big TV movie, like, The Return of Kung Fu. And then who's the co-star in it? Literally, his sidekick

is Brandon Lee. Well... Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. Naturally, oh, you mean the TV show that they ripped off my dad's story and everyone became millionaires? Oh, yeah, let me co-star on that.

No. She's a liar. Wow. Shots fired. Shots fired, ladies no mmm well she's a liar Wow shots fired shots fired ladies and gentlemen I forgot about that second one the second season I completely forgot about it not that was it's not that not that no that wasn't a bad movie not not that kung fu the legend continues what was that that was a crappy show where all of a sudden now quite Chen Kang is in the the 90s. And it was like done in... Was that Carradine 2?

Yeah, it was Carradine. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, but no, they did a TV movie. Oh. Like in, like, I don't know, 80 or 81 or something like that. And it still takes place in the Old West. And it's Kwai Chin King

and he meets brandon lee's character no shit huh and the other thing i know uh caridin from was he was in one of the chuck norris movies what was it lone wolf mcquaid yeah lone wolf mcquaid yeah when they have this the spaghetti western like cool fight that's a cool fight that's a cool that's a really cool fight well chuck norris had some underrated fun movies. Yeah, he did. He had some cool ones. I'm a big Invasion USA fan. Oh, no kidding.

Wow. Invasion USA. I'm also a really big Silent Rage fan. That's the one where he's basically fighting Michael Myers from Halloween. Yes, that's right. That's a fucking terrific movie. That's a terrific Chuck Norris movie. No, he did some classics for sure.

When you look back at all this that you've done, and, you know, I mean, do you look back on it with satisfaction? Is there anything you'd want to do differently? No. I mean, not when it comes to the movies. No, I mean, if I don't have satisfaction with my career, God, who would? I mean, I've just had such a wonderful situation. And like I said, you know, being able to play this game at this level, you know, I mean, look, I started out in 91 or 92 at the Sundance Film Festival.

It was a big year that year. So it was like three quarters of the movies that played at Sundance all got released theatrically. And the directors all kind of became known to some degree or another. And it was like the beginning of the whole American independent new wave thing. And I thought that all of us would be making movies for the next 30 years. And some of them did well and everything. But, you know, now cut to 30 years later, there's not many of them, almost none of them, except for Robert Rodriguez and maybe Rick Linklater, that are making movies on the studio level. And a lot of them haven't made movies in five or six years or longer or they're or they're

directing episodic television yeah so you know just to be able to follow my muse wherever it went to be able to write whatever i wanted to do and be able to get it made and have actors who wanted to do it and have people who want who who like it and want to back it and have actors who wanted to do it and have people who want to, who like it and want to back it and that people who want to go see it on opening weekend and just be able to go wherever it goes. And then also to be able to play at this level, you know you know, we made once upon a time in Hollywood for $95 million. I was able to shut down Hollywood Boulevard and, and recreate it back to 1969 without using CGI.

That was pretty amazing. Yeah, the CGI thing, it really bugs you, right? Yeah. What about, did you enjoy Alita, Robert Rodriguez's film? I have to say,

I haven't seen it because I wanted to see it in 3D and I missed it in 3D. So now I got to get over that and just watch it. I fucking loved it. Yeah. It's really good.

It's really good and it's crazy how good the fucking CGI is now. Yeah, well well also that is what that is it has to be yeah exactly yeah because it's not she's not even you know it's like a real person playing the role but then they're painting yeah this keen-eyed character right well in this i mean i don't want to give any of it away but there's parts of parts of it where literally she's disembodied. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to.

Right. It has to be CGI. But do you – is there ever a possibility of a story that would appeal to you so much that would have to be done that way that you'd be interested in just at least thinking about it, engaging in it, entertaining it? Well, yeah. I don't know if i would do this but like yeah there's certain this this kind of science fiction thing that kind of science be a wild way to go out yeah it would be interesting to flip people right on their head yeah but um but look at the end of the day

you're to me at the end of the day you're either either doing it on set or you're not doing it. You're either capturing it in camera or you're not. And that's it. It's about capturing it on camera. It's not about coming up with a car chase with two unreal cars that were made in a computer. No, it's about smashing metal into metal and see what the fuck happens. And it's about real stunt people doing real shit. Yeah. All right.

And it's about building real sets, not like, well, a little bit of the set, and then the rest is all created. The rest is green screen. No, I like building big sets. I like doing things for real. I mean, that means something. I mean, that means something. You know, a movie like a movie that didn't get much respect when it came out. But now in a world where.

Like it probably never would have been done that way if done now, that is really impressive, is if you look at Remy Harlan's Cutthroat Island. It's fucking amazing, especially in today's world. I mean, like, they spent a lot of money on it. It was a big flop. But, man, they do, like, magnificent action scenes in it that are just fantastic. And they're on real ships. Not some bullshit. They're on a real ship.

And they build entire towns and have carriage chases through it. And, you know, you see Geeta Davis practically break her fucking neck doing all this wild ass shit I mean that's a fucking movie

yeah I'm not familiar with that yeah it was like this huge flop for Caraco but like you look at it now and it's just

I mean it's terrific what year was this it's like 80 like 88 I mean 90 96 or something like that

oh wow but there's this big chase, a big carriage chase through this town in the movie that's just, I mean, it's just balls fucking out. Well, I guess probably the...

That's the big chase. Jesus Christ. And it's like fucking her, like holding the horses, man. Yeah, you can tell. And there's a lot of wild explosions going on literally right behind her yeah and they have franklin jello's the bad guy and he's terrific franklin jello remember him from yeah he was he was dracula dracula yeah that's right he was a good actually yeah he was a definitely good dracula that movie had a good tagline it was like

the story of the greatest lover who ever lived, died, and lived again. Speaking of Dracula, one of my favorite movies that you were in was you acting in Dust Till Dawn. Oh, yeah, for Robert, yeah. Because that was a fucking creepy character, man. Yeah, that was a weird-ass character. You played, and it was such a strange dynamic between you and george clooney because george clooney being your brother was trying to protect you but you were clearly a fucking sociopathic psychopathic murderer yeah absolutely and you played it so well oh thank you man when you were telling the girl to come sit

on the bed i was like oh jesus i remember. I remember watching that. And then it was, you played one of the creepiest fucking murderers in any movie ever. And I played that character really seriously as far as like, he's a schizophrenic. Yeah. And I tried to play that as realistically as possible. But one of the things that was so funny is like,

you would see how fucking crazy I am. But then you would see George trying to take care of me. And you actually kind of almost had sympathy for like George's character. Oh, look at that. That's kind of sweet. Oh, he just sliced that woman up. Yeah. Yeah.

But like you're like going, oh, when they hug each other. It was very complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's almost like it's almost like two movies. It's like that movie is like this really tense, dramatic, dangerous movie with these really bad guys that have kidnapped this family. And then all of a sudden it's a fucking crazy, funny vampire movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like out of nowhere. Right. It becomes comical. Yeah, exactly. It was a weird movie. Yeah, that's yeah. Like out of nowhere. Right. It becomes comic. Yeah, exactly. It was a weird movie. Yeah, that's how it was always supposed to be. Did you enjoy that kind of acting?

Did you ever think of like doing more of that? Well, I did think about doing more of that. I'm kind of glad it didn't work out that way. But that was the one that I really had a good time doing. I really liked playing the character. I loved working with Robert. And I doing. I really liked playing the character. I loved working with Robert and I was one of the producers on the movie. So it was just, it was great like being involved with the movie that I had written and that I was a producer on.

I was playing this wild character. We had a lot of fun people making it. The crew was great and we just had a ball. But also it wasn't like my next movie as a director. So I didn't have to worry about shit. I didn't have to worry about making my day or anything. But it was also you were really good at it. You've done cameos in your films but it's funny. Here's Quentin Tarantino in his movie.

Here's Quentin Tarantino, the bartender in Death Proof. But in that film you were a pivotal key character and it was very important that we believed you were out of your fucking mind. Oh, yeah. No, no. I think that's my best character work I ever did in a movie.

Admittedly, I would have liked to have done more of that, but they just didn't seem to be in the cards. Is that anything that you would consider doing now? Somebody contacting you? Everyone just – yeah. I don't think so. I mean, like, I think everyone – everyone kind of jumps on it when I do anything like that. But also, time has kind of passed. I don't want to be on somebody's stupid movie.

You know, I don't want to, like, don't fax me fucking call sheets, and now I got to get up in the fucking morning. That's hilarious. And like, you know, I've got a wife and a son. I can't spend nine hours a day on your stupid fucking movie. I get it. No, I get it completely. There was a time, but that time has passed. Right.

I actually had an interesting situation, though, because it was like during that time I was really looking for more roles, and they didn't really necessarily happen. Then I go and do Kill Bill, and that Kill Bill is kind of what helped me get this attitude because I was really putting myself really everything into Kill Bill. And finally it was like, well, you know, of course I'm putting myself into it because everything means everything to me. So it's like, do I really want to be on a set where I don't care as much as this? Well, the answer is probably no. But the thing is, OK, so I do Kill Bill. I'm a little heavy at that time. And so I'm totally hating doing the press for Kill Bill 1 because I'm too heavy. All right. So then

I'm editing Kill Bill 2. And so I lose a bunch of weight and everything. So I look much better. And now I'm really looking forward to doing the talk shows and doing the photo shoots because I feel better. I feel better about myself. And I go and I do the talk shows and I kill. I absolutely kill. I'm charming and I'm funny or whatever. If you like me anyway, I do the talk shows and I kill. I absolutely kill. I'm charming and I'm funny and wherever my, if you like me anyway, I do a good job and the talk shows really,

I make a good impression. Then all of a sudden, I start getting all these acting roles because I did so good on the talk shows and they're like legitimate acting roles with like some really, like George Romero

and Wim Winders and you know and all these like really kind of interesting stuff is coming down the pike. And I got offered the main bad guy in this like western with Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz that Luc Besson was producing. But at the time, I started going out with Sofia Coppola. And she was like, what? You're going to go and act in somebody's stupid movie? No, you're going to take care of me. I'm your girlfriend. We're hanging out together. You're not going to go to Arizona and do some stupid Western on somebody's fucking movie. No, you're my boyfriend. We're going to hang out together. I go, yeah, you know you're my boyfriend we're gonna hang out together go yeah you know you're right i'm in love here we go wow that's a it's interesting

that she didn't want you to do it well yeah well but actually she made sense like oh yeah you're right i'm in love why the fuck i'm gonna run away for like four months fuck that shit it's well the beautiful thing is you could do whatever you want. That's the beautiful thing. And one of the things about your success that's been so unique is that you've been able to do whatever you want from the jump. Look, it's just – I'm just like really fortunate. And like I just hope that – But it's a lot of things. It's not just fortune.

No, no, no, no. It's courage. No, I'm not throwing that away. No, it is. But I guess my point is, no, I'm not just putting it up to luck. I don't know what they say. Luck is when preparation and opportunity meet. But I just hope that when it's said and done that this wonderful situation I had, the people think that I handled it well.

I had a good situation and I lived up to it. And, you know, I use it to its best advantage. Do you ever speak to or in front of young filmmakers and try to impart your philosophy and your story and how you've done this and how you managed to stay true to your vision? I did earlier on, but while you're kind of still doing the vision, I think it's maybe something to do when you're a little older and then you kind of have more of the master classes and everything. I think it's something I would be more comfortable talking about the career when it's in the

rear view mirror. I would be more comfortable talking about the career when it's in the rearview mirror. But other than this here, I mean, have you done a long-form conversation like this before? I haven't. Like early in my career, I did a couple of master classes. But then I just decided, no, save that. Save that for later. But if I was a young filmmaker, this would be so valuable for me.

It's like if someone could sit down and listen to George Carlin talk about how how he wrote stand-up yeah yeah yeah you know or richard pryor well again like i said when it's in the rearview mirror yeah i'll be more open to it well i'm just glad you did this just to people i don't know if this is a master class but you've just been asking me interesting uh uh uh deep tissue questions but it's whether it's a master class or not, it's like people get insight into what it must have been like to be you, to be this guy who's working at a video store

who's just a massive fan of films. Because you just, you would just watch all the films while you worked there. Yeah, yeah. Right? And then you decide. Well, I had my,

I can't, you know, again, we were living through this horrible time in the 80s. So I was not seeing the movies that were in my head. I was not seeing them reflected by the movies we were seeing. You would see one thing. You would see like one scene like, oh, wow, that was really interesting.

That was cutting edge. But then usually they usually took it back a few scenes later. I mean it was funny. I actually just was making a list the other day. I was thinking it could be an interesting book to write because the cinema book I'm writing is about New Hollywood. So it starts in 67 and ends in 81, which is, I think, the end of the official New Hollywood. But I was thinking about if I was going to write a cinema book that takes place during the 80s, which take place during my video archives years. a cinema book that takes place during the 80s, which takes place during my video archives years.

I pick about 15 movies that we would call archive movie, video archive movies. And, you know, and and when we're talking about Blue Velvet or E.T. or like a lot of the set movies die hard that people love in the 80s. Okay, those are what they are and they're terrific. I'm putting them down. But we were after a real chancy cinema with balls and this was a ball-less decade. But every once in a while, a movie would pierce through and it would be like oh wow that was fucking terrific and you would see how the critics would like have a conniption about it and but

like to us this was the real noise this was the shit right and we loved it and it was something like you know like year of the dragon would come out and that would be fantastic or how last week's eight million ways to die where with Jeff Bridges and Andy Garcia that was fucking fantastic or what was something else Paul Verhoeven's Flesh Plus Blood with Rutger Hauer that was fucking amazing. Was To Live and Die in LA

around that era? Yeah To Live and Die in LA was during the time Manhunter. Oh yeah Michael Mann's Manhunter. The first of the Yeah the first of the Hannibal Lecter thing. And William Peterson, just terrific as fucking Milgram. Yeah, yeah. You know, so like those were...

I was thinking about writing a book where it's like I would just deal with like those 15 movies because it's like they just... Near Dark, Catherine Bigelow's vampire movie, Near Dark. Oh, that's a great fucking movie. The fucking massacre scene in the diner, which was like, oh my God, that's a great fucking movie. That has the fucking massacre scene in the diner, which was like, oh my god, that's not vampires, that's like the fucking Manson family just walked into this bar and just

massacred everybody. Bill Paxton was great in that movie. Just fantastic. That was a great movie. It was a great movie. Now, no scene was quite as good as the massacre scene, but it didn't have to be. That massacre scene was great enough for I saw that film five times just for that scene. Yeah, a lot of people aren't even aware of that movie anymore, right?

Yeah, so it would be interesting to come from this horrible decade and to pick out the 15 movies that for us back then that I would see scenes in movies that it would be like, oh, I would like to do a scene like that or that would be cool. But the only movie that kind of approximated the kind of movies that I later made or that I thought about or the movies I was making in my mind was Jim McBride's remake in 82. Jim McBride's remake of Jean-Luc Godard's Breathless. The Breathless with Richard Gere. That was about as close to a Quentin movie as I had ever seen. Really?

At the theaters. Because his character is a complete fucking asshole. His character is really into rockabilly music. I was really into rockabilly music at the time. He was a fucking asshole. He read comics all the time. I read comics. My two passions were rockabilly

music and comic books. He read them both. He was a huge fan of the Silver Surfer. He kept talking about the Silver Surfer all the time. They did these interesting distance. They shot Los Angeles as if it was like a backlot studio and made Los Angeles. You fall in love with Los Angeles again. And, you know, again, he's just a dick. And they do like cool shots, like process shots where it's just obviously it's fake.

You know, he's not really driving. And it's like it's a phony process shot in the background. But that's the point of it. Is it supposed to be fake? It was just awesome. He would stop and sing Jerry Lee Lewis songs. It was just fucking groovy, man. It was like, that's what I'm looking for.

You were a fan of comic books. Do you like comic book movies? Look, here's the thing. I've grown bored with a lot of them i mean it would have been great if all this marvel shit was happening when i was in my 20s and early 30s yeah that but like what's happening now is what we wanted to happen in the 80s right right right okay so but you know but you know they wait till i'm in my 80s. Right, right, right. Okay. So, but, you know, but, you know, they wait till I'm in my 50s and now I don't give it, I don't give so much

of a shit about it anymore. Yeah. One of the things that I've always said is no one has really done a true Robert E. Howard Conan movie. Oh, no, they haven't.

They really haven't. They never really nailed it. And I was always secretly hoping that you would take over well Robert is Robert Rodriguez is the one who really wanted to do a Conan did he really yeah yeah because Robert I mean he's like hey Robert E Howard he's a Texan all right you know yeah Conan is a Texas creation yep you know and if I did it would probably be a I love the comic series where they did the whole – one of the short stories was like Queen of the Golden Pearl or whatever it is.

There's the one pirate queen that has all those black African guys as her crew. Well, they had Conan meet her in one of the comic books. But the entire journey that they have is a short story. So you never learn about the entire journey. You just learn how he gets with her and then how it ends. But they did like a 20-issue run where it was like for two years. They just go through the entire voyage that he had with her in the comics. And it's one of the greatest runs of the comic.

Really? Yeah. What year was this? Like, if I'm not mistaken, I think around the height of the comic book's popularity. So I'm thinking like 77, 78. I was really hoping. It's like Queen of the Golden Pearl. I can't remember the name of the story.

I was really hoping for the Jason Momoa Conan. Because I think if anybody represents what Conan was supposed to look like, it wouldn't be Arnold Schwarzenegger when he was a bodybuilder. It would have been Jason Momoa, especially after he got done playing Khal Drago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, here's the thing, though, about it. I thought he did a pretty good job in that movie. Yeah, the movie was just shit.

But here's the thing, though, about it. I thought he did a pretty good job in that movie. Yeah, the movie was just shit. But here's the deal, though. The kid playing Conan when he was a kid fucking killed it. Yeah, he did kill it. No, that opening 10 minutes is the Conan movie we always wanted. Yeah, yeah. That opening 10 minutes where he cuts all the guys' fucking heads off and comes back, that was the shit. That's why I was so pumped for the movie.

And then I'm a big Jason Momoa fan, especially from him from the Game of Thrones. You see that character, like that could be Conan. Look, I have to say, I have affection for the John Milius one because I like Milius's philosophies that he keeps putting out there. And I actually really like the sequel, the Conan the Destroyer, the one with Grace Jones. That's the one that's most like the comic book. And it's actually written by Gary Conway, the guys who wrote the comic book, Roy Thomas and Gary Conway. So that's the one that actually feels like the comic book. Right. Yeah.

Because I love the, I'm a big fan of the comic book. Oh, the comic book is excellent. Yeah. The comic book is excellent. That's how I got into it. Later in life, about like 10 years ago, I started reading the short stories. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Robert E. Howard is such a complicated guy. Yeah.

And killed himself in his early 30s, right? Did you see that movie about him? No, I didn't, but I heard it was really good. Yeah, Vincent D'Onofrio plays him. Was it good? It was pretty good. What is it called? All This and the Fireworks.

Oh, okay. I'll check it out. And he's like, it's kind of cool because he's got, I think it's Renee Zellweger in the fireworks. Oh, okay. I'll check it out. And he's like, it's kind of cool because he's got, I think it's Renee Zellweger in the film. I mean, he's describing who Conan is. It's like the 40s. So, like, there's no frame of reference at all. Yeah, right?

It is crazy that this one guy had this vision for these characters. And he tried a couple other ones, too, right? He had Call the Conqueror. Yeah, yeah, Krull. And he had Red Sonja. Yeah. But it was those movies just I just don't think anybody's really nailed it. Yeah.

Robert Rodriguez, was he really interested in doing that? He was going to do it. Why doesn't he fucking do it? I don't know. You know, it's like he had a couple things he wanted to do. He wanted to do Barbarella for a while. But he really wanted to do Conan. And like really the idea that Robert E. Howard was a Texas artist.

That's important to Robert. That's important to represent Texas. And he loves the idea that Conan is a Texas creation. That is pretty cool. And Robert Rodriguez is the perfect guy to do it too. You think about it. If not you, him. Yeah. Same sort of in my mind.

You know, listen, I've taken up a lot of your time, and I really, really fucking appreciate you being here, man. Oh, it's my pleasure. I had a really good time, man. I enjoyed it very much. And your book, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, is out. It's out right now. Yes, June 29th. That's when this plays, right?

Yeah. And is it Jennifer Jason Leigh is doing the- She's doing the audio book. Audio book. Yeah. Yeah. I've listened to some of it. It's very good.

Oh, good deal. Cool, cool. She's excellent at it, too. Well, she's fucking one of the greatest actresses in the world. It's very cool that you got her to read it. No, I was really- I asked her if she would do it, and she said she would. It's the first time she's read a book before on tape. Oh really?

So it's like it's exciting. Oh that's so fucking cool that she was willing to do that for you. Yeah she was yeah she enjoyed it it was cool. That's awesome. Well it's also really cool because like you know her dad was Vic Morrow so the thing about it is she knows all these actors all the actors that are dropped from this era like she knew every one of them she didn't have to learn

shit. Right right that no that is cool. Listen, man, like I said, it's an honor. I really appreciate it very, very much. My pleasure. Good to be on here, man. Thank you very much. All right, that's it. Bye, everybody.

Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.