The Joe Rogan Experience - #1680 - Jakob Dylan

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Singer-songwriter Jakob Dylan is the frontman of The Wallflowers. Their new album, "Exit Wounds," is set for release on July 9.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hello, Jacob. How you doing? Good to see you again, man. Good to see you. First time we met, we were talking about earlier, you took your kids to Fear Factor. It was a gross day, right?

Weren't they all? No, the second day is always the gross day. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, the first day is a big stunt. Oh, the first day is the sports day. Yeah, and then the second day, it's disgusting. And then the third day, it's usually something. Well, had I had a choice, we would have picked the disgusting day anyway.

That was pretty wild. I don't remember what it was. Do you? No, it was downtown. It was in an abandoned building, like a warehouse style. And it was disgusting before you guys even started. It was. I do remember what looked like an exploded, melted cat on a chair.

There was fur. There was a face. And it had been, like, for many, I don't know how long it had been. That might be just a part of the landscape. I'm saying that had nothing to do. That wasn't you guys. Those downtown buildings, like, that was when I first found out about Skid Row was working for Fear Factor.

If you're a person that just spends time in Hollywood or Beverly Hills or Tarzana or whatever, you don't know that there is this crazy spot in downtown where they've basically contained homeless people. They've set up shelter and food and then people just camp out on the street. And obviously that's an issue now in LA But this was 2003

Yeah, that's that was mainly where you saw it then but if you've been out there lately, it's crazy. It's pretty much everywhere Yeah, I'm excited to have escaped. Yeah good for you. Yay You live in there. I do just mainly because I've always been there. Yeah, I think often about going somewhere else You just transplanted here. Yeah, that was my concern too is because I've always been there. Yeah. I think often about going somewhere else. You just transplanted here. Yeah, that was my concern too, is that I've been there for so long that I was just going to stay there. Where were you out there?

I was in Calabasas. I was out in the suburban area, which is nice. It's quieter, but it's not quiet enough. I moved there in 96 or 97 something like that but it was uh when i moved there it was you know no one was out there it's like coyotes and owls and shit and it was just that's what i like i like quiet you know did you have to commute every day for any yeah but you know you just leave on time and When I was doing news radio, the TV shows, when I first moved out there, we didn't really start until 10 a.m. at the earliest.

So by that time, traffic has started to die down. It's not that big a deal. Yeah. Well, it's back. Traffic is back. Yeah. It's back. Yeah.

We were just talking earlier. We thought there was an exodus of people leaving these major cities, but I haven't noticed that. It seems like more people than ever out there. Well, there's so many people, even if you lose a million people or two million people or three million people, you still have 25 million people jammed into an area where when I moved to L.A. in 94, I guess, is probably, I mean, I got to think the population was like a third of that oh yeah or a third less when i was going up out there there was traffic from i think you didn't want to be in your car from like five to six p.m right that's that was it i didn't well morning traffic i wouldn't know about because i was you know i wasn't driving but uh no it's just all day long every day now sometimes i would come home from the comedy store at 1 in the morning and be stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic I'm like what is this yeah? We really landed la exit 2 in the morning and take two hours to get home

Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it's ridiculous or just the airport itself. She's just a jammed up airport. That's a crazy I don't know whose idea how about just a loop where everybody's just in the same you know other airports You see how they figured it out. They have separate terminals. Everyone's not just log jamming into the same spot. It's pretty crazy. Do you guys, do you like LA because you like to perform there? I actually don't perform there very often. I mean, not any more than I perform anywhere else.

I'm just there because I've always been there. And there's good people there. I mean, there's shitty people everywhere. I mean, there's shitty people everywhere. I mean, it's not LA. I don't stereotype it that way. Have you ever thought about moving? Yeah. This is the part where I try to convince Jacob Dillon

to move to Austin. Let's do it. I got famous people here. Well, yeah, you know what? At this point, if you're from LA, you know, yeah, I know more people in other towns. So many people have left. Yeah.

For a lot of different reasons, but I know more people out of LA than certainly that I know in la is the troubadour still happening i heard that the troubadour was about to go under then somebody oh i don't know you mean like right now because i don't know if i don't know if they're what they're gonna do because i know bill burr was really worried about that he loves that place and he was going to buy it maybe he will he might somebody bought nate nows you know nate nows yeah they closed that down they shut that down and somebody rescued that oh well that's good bill needs to go rescue the troubadour he may i don't know he's a cautious fella yeah when

it comes to like investments and stuff like he's a wealthy guy that pretends he's not that's smart yeah it is smart he's he is smart and we were talking about how Bill has your friend Dean Del Rey opening for him, which is hilarious that you know Dean from the music days. Yeah, I've known Dean for more than 25 years or so. He was always a great entertainer and always a funny guy. And I know you know him as well. I was not surprised that he decided to be a stand-up, but I guess you made me aware that it's surprising to do that in your early 40s

it's real odd yeah for someone to take a chance like that and shift careers because it's a risk it's a giant risk well how so well you you know it might not work and you're saying if you try in your 20s and didn't work you got time to do something else yeah or you have time to make it happen you know to really to make it happen as a comic, it legitimately takes 10 years. It takes 10 years to get good at it. You know, it really does, some weird way. I don't have that kind of time. Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

And for Dean to just take that, I think he was like 46? Yeah, he was. Something like that? Yeah, but it seemed like a pretty natural evolution. And I know other people who've done the same thing. It's their, you know, I'm not surprised. Yeah. You know, there is a connection between guys jumping around on stage singing songs to guys doing stand-up comedy there is a for sure there's a connection yeah yeah yeah for sure just the the comfort level of being able to uh to do that just to speak in front of people

sing in front of people be looked at yeah yeah yeah you know yeah get over somehow get the attention if they're very similar. Yeah. This new album, when was the last time you guys had an album? 2012. Wow. Yeah, but, you know, I did not anticipate. I didn't even, I mean, time flies. Yeah, it does. I didn't realize that.

But, you know, I tour every year, so I don't have, you know, I'm far enough along where I don't need to worry so much about making records all the time if I'm not focused or have the ideas. So if you're not paying attention, you just keep touring and touring. And then I did a movie as well, a documentary, which had a soundtrack in between that, the Echo in the Canyon movie, which was an interview where we spoke to a lot of people who were around in the mid 60s particularly 65 and 6 the bands went to laurel canyon oh wow so that took a long time to do we interviewed people like eric clapton and uh and this was your project yeah what when made you what was the motivation to do something like that uh well you just if you don't take a minute you'll just keep doing the

you gotta get off the treadmill at some point you know and i've been making my first record was 1992 wow so uh you know want to do something different and i think it actually took too long to do something different you know but those take a long time documentaries don't really have scripts you know they just unravel so you just have to keep going until it changes the story keeps changing as you go and then you need to go out talk to this person to fill in that blank you know you got to keep doing that. And before you know it, it took three years. So who was in the Laurel Canyon scene in the 1960s? Hendrix was there, right?

He may have passed through. He's not an L.A. artist, like a Laurel Canyon artist. I thought he had a place in Laurel Canyon for a while. He may have. I mean, we really zeroed in on one year, like 65, with Buffalo Springfield and the Birds. You know, These people getting together with so much talent in one group. That dream didn't last,

none of those groups were able to stay together. But it's not about Laurel Canyon in its entirety. It's people, they wondered where Joni Mitchell was or Frank Zappa, but that was a different experience. And Carole King, that's all down the line a little bit later. That's more of the singer-songwriter era someone can make that i recommend ken burns makes that documentary because that's going to be like a long one and we didn't get into the the uh the riots and sunset

strip and all that it was really about one year specifically what why that year just because it was like when these bands like you know you got buffalo springfield you got neil young you got steven stills in the same group together. You know, like that wasn't going to last. It's just two giants in the same space. So they were kind of figuring out what groups could do. I don't think anybody imagined having jobs very long. I don't think anybody was looking at each other's paychecks yet and noticing how the dream is not going to probably stay together too long.

But that's what we found to be interesting. And really, if you wanted a documentary about Laurel Cannon, I'm like, I wouldn't be capable of doing it. It's too large in its entirety, you know? It's probably something that you'd have to do for multiple shows, right? Like a Netflix-style series. Exactly. You could.

You absolutely could. There's a lot of different eras up there. And there's also the CIA. There's all kinds of shit you can get into up there. It's not just the music. Have you read that book, Chaos, the Tom O'Neill book about the Manson family? No. It's all about the CIA and about the CIA infiltrating the hippie culture

and literally supplying acid to the Manson family. Yeah. Well, I know you like a good conspiracy. Oh, I love a good conspiracy. The hippie movement you might say that was dumbing down america intentionally i mean there's there's a lot of conspiracy in that well if not dumbing down america intentionally this is what i think about a lot of conspiracies where people think that they're engineered i think more often than not they take advantage

of a moment and exacerbate a situation rather than engineer it from scratch like I don't think it's possible to engineer the hippie movement but I think you can take moments like that and make the people involved look more ridiculous and more stupid and dumbed down America in a certain sense I mean people have a like you know the 70s bounce back from what the the 60s represented was a lot of it was 70s bounce back from what the the 60s represented was a lot of it was people being upset at the negative aspects of the hippie culture in the 60s yeah i mean i wouldn't be you know the most informed to get into too much of that but there's it's we're doing it today it's the same thing it's you know distraction you know when you give people all i mean isn't it interesting laurel

king look i mean you there's another book. What is it? Strange. Oh, it doesn't matter if I can't think of the name of the book. But that's all, you know, none of those people, there's other conspiracies that none of those people, including Frank Zappa, wound up on Laurel Canyon for no reason at all. It wasn't by accident. I mean, they all have bloodlines that go back very, very far, particularly with the military royalty, that they all wind up in the same place at the same time is pretty much, there you go, Weird Scenes. You should check that book out. Yeah?

Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon. Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops, and the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream. Keep this away from Eddie Bravo, whatever he's doing, because he's already read it a hundred times. You might not believe everything in it, but you will think everything in it's possible. So those artists all had a background where someone in their family was involved in the military or something along those lines?

They all came from very prestigious places. I mean, all of them. Really? Yeah. So you think- It's been a while since I read that book. But when you read that, that's why when I bring that up, because people ask about Laurel Canyon, it's's like I did not attempt, we did not make a documentary about Laurel Canyon because that's the other half of Laurel Canyon that needs to be discussed as well

if you care about it. And that's, I mean, bands are endlessly interesting to me, but that stuff up on the hilltop having the CIA having like a photo, you know, they had a film place up there where they had loads and loads of film that's gone, that's burned, the building is gone. Why is it gone? I mean, you'll have fun with that book if you want to check it out send me that link jamie yeah please it's fun well it's it was it was a strange time if you connect like the 50s

and then the 60s the the the contrast of this the style of the country like just the culture it was so radically different and the music is the best representation of that music and films like music of the 50s versus the music of the 60s is a giant monumental shift yeah well of course what was brand new that's why most those bands were good they weren't they have any bad influences yet I mean not to name names you get further down the line I mean you know as much as you might love david bowie he also is responsible for like influencing a lot of stuff that you don't like you know because it becomes harder and harder to find your influences and you're you're having to sift through the muck of not only just bad

influences but bad equipment bad guitars bad microphones this all starts to change and it becomes instead of i got four choices in front of me to listen to and they're all really good, so now I got 20 choices. It becomes more difficult to figure out which stuff is just clouding up your influences. But anybody around the 50s, that's why you get those compilations.

Why was everybody so good? Because they just didn't have any bad influences yet. They were all listening to the same stuff and it was all really good. That's an interesting perspective. So it was like fresh and it's almost like they didn't have a chance to fuck it up yet yeah they didn't i mean it's kind of interesting if you think about it i mean even the most mildly talented person if they were only listening to great stuff they'd probably be pretty good just because their sources are so good and they were so close to the source

i mean rock and roll was so in the 50s it was brand new but even the early 60s it's still like you don't have i mean i've been making records for almost 30 years wow if you're starting out 1960 like 30 years is from the 30s like there was nothing for them to be running around doing that's a great point i never thought of it that way that is a great point and then you also have to take into consideration that a Genuine rock star was a literally a decade old Yeah, there was no real rock stars. We had yet buddy Holly had Elvis yet a few Chuck Berry little Richard He had a few rock stars. Yeah, and then In the 1960s that that concept was a little more than a decade old.

Yeah, and it seemed like a good option at that point. Fuck yeah. Minus the plane crash. What if you could be one of those guys? But I think when they were, I mean, how big could Buddy Holly's dreams have really been? I mean, no one had, I mean, was he 22? I mean, like no one knows.

No one knew, the idea of having any job, I mean, I've had my job for 30 years, that's amazing for anybody to have any line of work for that long. So you go back to those guys starting, I can't imagine anybody wondered what kind of records we would make in the 60s and the 70s. I mean I can't imagine any kind of foresight.

Yeah, that's a really good point. It's, imagine if that guy was still alive. You know he wouldn't be as old as you think if he was still alive. That's that's uh, you know, I wouldn't do that I wouldn't bring a phone into a podcast Just I always use use the do not disturb. I think I did didn't I probably just put it on silent What you say you just asked me something imagine buddy Holly stayed alive Yeah, you know, he wouldn't be that, he wouldn't be as old as you think. How old would he be now?

22 in the 50s? He'd be 80 fucking years old. Well, so is Mick Jagger. Right. You know what I mean? Like that generation, they're going into their 80s. And maybe he'd be, I don't know exactly,

maybe 86, 85. Right. But you'd think he'd be 105. He wouldn't be. Yeah. It's really interesting, the history of rock stars. Like, it's uh, it's it's is really interesting the history of rock stars Like it had to be it's got to be a weird thing Growing up being the son of literally one of the greatest musicians of all time. How how weird is that?

Yes, you may be a little more specific how weird dad yeah no no i know who he is but i mean what is it like i mean it's got to be well it's all you know it's all you know it's all you know but in contrast to what other people know it's got to be very strange i don't think it's strange i never thought it was i mean it's i'm i was always aware it's different than the guy next to me right i thought his life was probably pretty weird, too. I mean, somebody's dad being an oral surgeon was strange to me. Right. You know? But I also grew up in the 80s.

It was a little bit different then. You know, and kids didn't really care. My friends, the people I was growing up with didn't know or care about that stuff. That's interesting. It's not until later, really. You saw people's parents act weird around you. Oh, wow. The kids didn't care.

No kid. That's strange. Wow. Well, I'm also talking about la yeah so well la in the 80s was such a it was a guns and roses fest right that's late 80s well i was uh yeah i guess so right that was like 87 88 the gun and roses era yeah that's a yeah that's a little dip that, that was a quick short era. Was a weird era, right? All of a sudden everyone was wearing makeup and teasing their hair like a girl.

It was like. Yeah, I honestly didn't see much of that. I only went to the Sunset Strip one time. I didn't grow up too far from there. And I still can't really, if it was like that every night, like Jesus, like I never saw that. It wasn't the music I listened to,

none of the fashion, any of that stuff appealed to me but they took over that street and it was literally like the the street was just nothing but paper flyers and it was uh it was pretty something pretty wild yeah you didn't experience any of that you never went to like the rainbow bar and grill and no not i was like maybe 35 oh okay. No, I never went up there too much. Those guys are still there. Yeah, that thing is still there. Yeah, you can still go. And it's a fun spot.

It's like a weird little, almost like not quite a time capsule because you get to see that they've aged. Yeah, no, it's a time capsule. I mean, I've only been there a couple times. I certainly didn't see that part of it but it was a tough time coming up with bands at that time because that was pay to play oh really yeah that was that's why again that was very difficult can you explain that to people well that's because there's so many bands in la you want to play traditionally you get paid to play music you're the entertainer but because there's so many bands they started uh they'd

sell you the tickets now you go sell them so it takes the weight off the venue having to you know sell tickets or not so you buy the tickets for 500 bucks and now they don't care if you bring people in or not because they already made their 500 bucks for that band and there's five bands that night you know what i mean so if you didn't have a lot of friends and you didn't want to go throw flyers around all day long this is obviously before the internet so how do you get people I mean I could so what are you going to ask your friend to go

who doesn't care about your band anyway and then you're going to say can you spend 15 bucks to get in it just wasn't a good model for a lot of bands

and we did it one time and we ate all the money oh wow it didn't work but there were so many bands they could get away with doing that yeah I mean I do get it

I do get the why that was the thing that they did then, but it certainly excluded anybody who just couldn't afford to buy $500 worth of tickets. That band can't play. And a lot of great artists are weirdos, and they don't have friends, and they can't do that. Yeah. Wow.

Well, that time period was almost oversaturated, right? Well, in L.A., just in general. Well, certainly that scene was, I think that was the Mecca. People came from all across the country. That was the dream. That was the dream.

You got to go to L.A. Welcome to the jungle, the video, right? Well, yeah, you had to have a scene. I mean, Guns N' Roses is really, that's the end of it, really. Well, maybe it was still around, but I don't consider that group to be part of that. They were really a fantastic group. They still are, but the scene I'm talking about, and I think anybody who saw it would also agree, they weren't really a part of that.

Who was a part of that? A lot of bands with two Xs in their names. Two Xs? Yeah, a lot of bands misspelled. I don't know I mean I kind of want I mean it was more on the model of groups like poison which I'm sure you're aware of oh okay yeah that was the look that was the sound yeah and there was good music for some people I mean some people still love those songs I mean that's not what I'm talking about it was

just the scene was pretty crazy and that scene was that was the dominant scene in Hollywood right it did did it very much was there other styles of music that was coming out of that area I think so I think if you went east yeah yeah well I mean LA's had great I mean when I was a kid on LA you had X and the blasters you had exciting groups that I liked and then I think there's also there's Jane's Addiction later there's other scenes out there wasn't just the Sunset Strip it is always fascinating when one area becomes responsible for a giant chunk of the culture when it comes to like music culture like that was one area so it's not even a big area you know you

think about sunset strip if you're from out of town and then you go down there and you drive two miles and it's over like oh that's it huh yeah and it was just really that it's funny you mentioned that i wonder if you went to new york New York in 1986. I never heard of it. Did they have a glam scene? I don't think they did. I mean, why only L.A. seemed to have that? Yeah. Everybody got in their trucks and drove out to L.A. to be a part of it.

Well, New York was different, right? It was a lot more punk. It was CBGB. It was, you know, the Cro-Mags. It was a different kind of scene in New York, right? For sure. Well, I guess so. It's a grittier place, I guess.

Yeah, it's just funny. I don't know how they dodged that glam metal scene, but they dodged it entirely. They kind of did. I think that if you were into that, you had to go to LA, I suppose. By the time you get there, it's the same as anything.

By the time you get to where you're going to follow the scene, it's over. Wow. That's how that works. I mean, I didn't hear about any bands who were not from Seattle who went up there with their flannel shirts and got a record deal after that explosion. I think you kind of had to be there.

Yeah, I guess so. I remember very clearly when Nirvana came out because I was at a buddy of mine's house, and he goes, dude, you've got to listen to this shit. And he put on the Nevermind album, and we were all sitting around listening to it like going i never heard anything like this before this is i think you know i think every i think i remember the same thing too it wasn't at your buddy's house but i was in a van we were doing

shows we we heard it and you know it was explosive but you also like they said like you knew this is the beginning of something else yeah but it was it was the end my friend eddie always says it was the end of that hairband era you've all the many of those people have said so said when they were sitting there watching mtv with their you know their sky-high hair they saw that and they like they said we're done that's it that's so wild that's so wild that an artist i mean really they just like their their draw band. Their jaw would drop and they just said, that's it. We're done. Because it was everything everybody could experience at the same time.

It was real. It was live. There was no shenanigans. That's the writings of the wall. When that gets over and you don't have to be an actor like a lot of people do to get by. It was over. Yeah, they just nuked the whole scene. It's incredible that something can come along that resonates that well,

that just hits a nerve that well that everybody sort of agrees. Well, that's a wrap, kids. Time to throw away the hairspray. I think just across the board, everybody felt at the same time. They didn't have to go, do you think so, though? Really?

I don't know. I don't think so. Everybody at the same time was like, oh, that's it. It's a wrap. I remember a few years later seeing hair bands and feeling sad for them, seeing them do things, and nobody gave a fuck about it anymore. It was so hot. Yeah.

And then not anymore. Well, it's hot again. Everything, you know. know yeah that's true nostalgia comes around that's true people get excited about a lot of boats out there playing to those bands jumping around playing that's so true dude i live on a lake yeah they drive by yeah yeah it's that and what's those cruises you know those they get and it's fun i mean like and some of those people you know they meant business they still love it they still care i mean so who can argue well it's one of those things when people hear those old songs, it brings it back to

high school or brings it back to when they loved those songs. No intoxicant like nostalgia. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's the most powerful. Yeah. Nobody's void of that. Doesn't matter.

It's fun to have a band that you used to be embarrassed about that's not embarrassing anymore, too. I never had that problem, to be embarrassed about that's not embarrassing anymore too i never had that problem to be honest no that's lifestyle bands that's the people who you know when you're growing up they put they either wear a shirt or a sticker on the notebook that is really they just want to tell you what kind of guy or girl they are it's not really about the band it's you know it's it's kind of synonymous with the shirt you you know the jeans you're wearing right lifestyle music yeah and there were people when i grew up i remember you know you the jeans you're wearing. Right. Lifestyle music. Yeah. And there were people when I grew up, I remember, you know, you couldn't like the Smiths if you also liked the police. It's just like, you got to pick a team.

And it's just like so childish. And that's high school in general, really. But when you get older, I think you just, you realize, wait a second, you know what? I really did like Adam Nance. And I really did like, I did like The Clash at the same time, but I didn't realize I was allowed to do that. Yeah. I loved Led Zeppppelin but i also loved

kiss and kiss was the embarrassing one and i had to hide it from people you know what though you're i mean i think we're pretty much the same age that's the badge everybody i did not have a kiss face i mean i've been around those those people and i like them and i see the merit in it but i was not that did not blow through my basement and knock me out. When I was really young, my uncle Vinny worked for Howard Marks Advertising, and they were the ones who did the album covers for Kiss. So I met Ace Frehley when I was like, I don't remember how old I was. I was pretty young, younger than 10, I guess, probably. And he had no makeup on.

I met him when he had no makeup on. He came into the office, and no one knew what he he looked like and I'm like like I knew a secret like as a 10 year old I knew some crazy secret. I know what he's freely looks like Yeah, so because my uncle had introduced me to them at a young age I was a fan like all through like from 10 to all through high school Oh, I get I know I totally get the comic book thing like I get it That's they were genius I'll actually tell you a funny story.

He wouldn't, I don't think he might have seen him in a long time, but I met Paul, the first time I met Paul Stanley was in a studio out in LA probably in like 97, I want to say.

So my son was four, maybe, and he was with me at five at the studio. And the studio had like a big lounge with a big fish tank. And I was,

I was small talking with Paul Stanley. My son didn't, he didn't have makeup on, of course, and we were just catching up on stuff. And an intern from the building, or somebody who worked upstairs, came down with, they just reissued the new Kiss dolls. And he came down with the box, and he was hoping Paul would sign it. You know? Because you've got to have it in the box, can't open it. And if he's in the building, you've got to have it signed. you got to have it in the box can't open it and if he's in the building you got to have it signed so paul notices that my four or five year old look is looking at the doll and looking at him

and realizing that there's there's a person in front of me who's actually a doll also he'd never seen that and it kind of tripped him out and he kept his eyes were going back and forth from the doll to paul you know back and forth and paul leans down and says did you want one of those and my son just kind of shakes his head he's speechless now it's now there's like a superhero in the room and he says did you want one of those you want one and my son just kind of shakes his head he's speechless now it's now there's like a superhero in the room and he says did you want one of those you want one and my son just kind of shook his head and then he stands leans back up he says to me you know if you go up on hollywood over by vine they still got some left they've got they're not too pricey they haven't overpriced him yet he tells me where i can go get one it looked like it was going to be the moment of like i'm going to send

you a couple of those but he tells me where to go get some oh which is funny in itself but devastating kind of i was like so he learned a couple things all at once they're superhero person yeah you can buy your own shit yeah it's almost like how do you feel how's it feel to want yeah yeah do you want one of those yeah exactly yeah how's it feel to want yeah that's kind of what it was it was funny though um i went to see kiss and uh i guess it was the 90s when they had their comeback tour. And it was me and Kevin James. And Kevin James was also a closet Kiss fan growing up. And we shared that in common.

And we went to see him in LA. And the nostalgia was so high. Because they were wearing makeup again. They decided to put, you know, because they went through that whole phase with no makeup, and then they put the makeup back on and had the costumes back on, and it was like, yes! We went to see, I think it was,

it might have been at the Forum, some big place in LA. That's like the first reunion makeup, to never take the makeup off. Nah, should have never taken it off. I mean, well, you know, if I could do it all over again, I'd start out with makeup. They'll never see you get old, but you can do whatever you want.

Yeah. You know, how great is that, to be like seven years old and get to jump out with makeup. They'll never see you get old. You can do whatever you want. Yeah. You know, how great is that to be like seven years old and get to jump around in makeup? And I mean, at some point, everybody, yeah, I'd like something on my face too. Yeah. And you can sneak around that way. I mean, they went everywhere.

With makeup or without? Without makeup, they can go anywhere. We didn't know. Yeah. I mean, the only thing was like- Do you remember all those like- Right. Yeah.

Coming out of clubs yeah there's a lot of that i remember paul stanley had a bandana on like covid days bandana who's coming out of somewhere yeah yeah just interesting that a band pulled that off though that there was a band that uh became huge wearing makeup and they were interesting in that they'd got very little airplay But they still would sell out enormous arenas every night Yeah, the United these you know people like yourself and that was part of it was part of the attraction was they're not on the Radio this is our band and that's something so many great rock and roll bands are like that Yeah, that is a thing with that's a weird thing that happens with certain bands were when they become more popular That's a weird thing that happens with certain bands where when they become more popular, the original people that got into them get upset.

Like they go, man, I fucking knew these people when they were underground. Sold out. Yeah, they sold out. It's not my band anymore. That band that was your band, like now they're a lot happier now. There's a lot more people listening. That's what they wanted from the beginning. They didn't just want you and your two friends. They wanted everybody to like them. That's a weird thing, right?

Where people don't want things to get too successful because then it's not their secret anymore. Well, not only that, if everybody likes it, how unique can it be? You know, the people like to feel unique. You know, that I'm the only one who gets it. It's such a stupid inclination because obviously if it's good, if you like it and it's good, wouldn't you want other people to know about it? Isn't it good if more people find out about it? Well, the goal is to be awesome and really big, like Prince. That's the goal.

Right, perfect example. Everybody thinks you're awesome and you're really, really popular. Yeah, if you didn't like Prince, what the fuck is wrong with you? Everybody liked Prince. Yeah, someone tells you they don't like like Prince they don't like the Beatles you don't trust the person right they're either lying or you should probably just hightail it yeah I've heard people say well a lot of the stone songs suck and you go well they had some great ones that's some great ones they had some

songs that I'm not really into everybody does yeah but you can't say the stones suck no you know well I used to there was that it was I don't know if they still do it anymore i used to hate that people would ask you beetles or stones oh those questions just like i mean it would just make me livid like yeah you know that's like saying indoors or outdoors all right i need them both food or sleep yeah exactly we kind of need them both they're not similar why are we again why are we picking teams like are you kidding like they're not the same at all What is it about people that do want to pick those teams, though? They really do. Well, they like to argue.

There's no right or wrong answer to that. I should say there's no right answer. If you say, well, the Beatles, then you're going to get a – that person is going to be a pro-Stones person in a second and just want to argue. Now, you're not – we were talking about this before the show, that you're not a social media person. You're not interested in any of that stuff. But a lot of people use that as like a thermometer to read the temperature of the audience to try to figure out what people like or what they don't like.

That influence can either be beneficial like you can learn something from your audience and get feedback and it can help you or it can fuck you up the way you developed without all that stuff do you think that there is is it detrimental for artists to have that much interaction with with people that are into them and to be doing social media back and forth with fans? Well, I would say first, if you enjoy doing it, you should do it. There's people not unlike myself who don't actually find the joy of it. And that's when I feel bad for people who engage in it who aren't genuinely just enjoying it because it is something.

And for people like myself, if you just put up tour dates and record release stuff like that's not interesting enough to people to really get that kind of traffic you're talking about but is it detrimental i don't know i don't i i don't have a grip on it i couldn't advise anybody again if you like doing it you should but you know if you're not good at social media uh then maybe you won't get noticed. And I'll use Prince again. Prince wasn't into it. He was large enough that he'd probably get over anyhow. But he might stumble a while because people are expecting that format of the interaction,

of closeness, of pretending to be friends. And maybe it wouldn't work for him. Is that expected of musicians today? Totally. Yeah. So is that like something that's written into with contracts? No. They ask you to...

Well, if you're young and you had a band that's really good, you know, before you send your demo tape to somebody or your link, they're going to go to your Instagram

and see how many followers you have. Because that's, you're doing, they want to know you're going to do the work with them. And I get that.

If you've got 100,000 followers, that looks really good to a label that might want to work with you. That means you know what you're doing and you know how to use social media and it's a big asset. If your that looks really good to a label that might want to work with you. That means you know what you're doing and you know how to use social media and it's a big asset.

If your tape is really good and you get great music and you don't even have instant media or you have 200 followers, that looks bad. Interesting. And that might hinder your chances of working with people. Do you think that would fuck you guys up if you started today? Would you think you would adapt and just change your approach?

Maybe if I was 21 again, maybe I'd enjoy it. You know what I mean? Do you have anything? I mean, I got stuff. What do you mean? Do you have Instagram? Do you have Facebook? Do you have those things?

Yeah, we use Facebook. I have stuff. You want to come to my house? What do you mean? I got things. I'm sure you do. I don't excel at that format. We'll that right but i try to well i if somebody asks me do you think jacob dylan's big on instagram i'd be like a motherfucker probably doesn't even touch it yeah i just find

it kind of spooks me that's yeah i mean it's all i mean it just it follow your nose if you like it do it if you don't you know don't let people pressure you into doing it. Because the reaction that you're looking for, if it's not genuine, like they don't want management putting things on it. They want to feel you. Of course. You know, and if they don't get that, you look at people's Instagrams. If you notice this pattern that starts out, whether it's people like yourself or people in bands or actors or anybody, it starts out with pictures of their plants.

It starts out with their new car. It starts out with like their foot in the air by a pool. And then you see the traffic start to pick up when you start to get closer to now to today. It's pictures of their kids and it's them at the beach and it becomes very personal. But when it's more of your art pictures, your photography, nobody really cares too much. You know, they want to see your candid, funny moments with Kevin James at a Kiss concert. That's what they want to see.

They want something that gives them a view into your life that's not available otherwise. And that's not for everybody. Or they want your honest expressions, too. They definitely know if you've got some management team fucking with it. That's not good. No, that's not good. No, that doesn't work. I mean, it kind of worked, but there's a feeling they get. It's a plastic feeling.

That's not really using it for what it's worth. That's not what they're looking for. Yeah, it's just the concern that I would have for young artists is that I think you need a lot of time developing your thoughts and thinking about things from an honest perspective. You know what you're never going to read about me? You're never going to see my name in a quote that says, in a now deleted post. I mean, everybody's going to get their first one of those. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's forever. There's always a tweet, right? That's true. Yeah.

Well, especially if you like to drink. Yeah. No tweeting after what, 9 p.m.? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you'd be hammered by 9. How about just don't name names? Tell your story.

Be as funny as you want. Just don't say anybody's name in your tweet that it's going to come back to get you. Yeah, there could be that. Or your hot take on some controversial political situation. Yeah. Yeah. It's not for everybody.

Well, it's a weird way to interact. It's a good way to get information across as far as if you're a journalist or something. I think Twitter is better for journalists than it is for anybody else. And maybe up and coming comics comics it's not bad because i've followed quite a few people while i see their posts and i go that's a fucking funny person i'm gonna follow them just give me some more of that what else you got and then how does that always benefit that person you're following well it benefits them that they tweet i find out about them and then maybe i meet them and i have had this happen where I run into a comic

and I go, hey, I follow you on Twitter, funny shit. See, I wonder if a lot of people who have that middle level of like 30, 40,000 followers, how that's translating to their, outside of that, outside of the Instagram, where are you seeing that work? Where is it coming back to you? Because that's why they're doing it. Well, for stand-up, sure.

But for bands, I haven't heard those people have 30,000 followers and put their record out. They don't sell 30,000 records. Right, right. It seems like for bands, you've got to get on something. There's got to be something where somebody showcases you, whether it's the Jimmy Kimmel show or something, where you play a song and go, oh, that's fucking great. And then it catches on. Yeah, no, it's the jimmy kimmel show or something where the you know you play a song and go oh that's fucking great and then yeah and then it catches on yeah no it's good i mean i

don't mean you know i don't participate very much in it but there's i mean i look at the stuff too i get it you know but it feels naturally you enjoy it then you should do it in it but if you don't like i feel bad for people who just go along with it even though it doesn't feel good people who just go along with it even though it doesn't feel good well now there's like new things like uh tiktok and these it's like i can't keep up you know there's always some new sort of style of social media that you're supposed to adapt to and i'm like okay that's where i draw the line yeah i can't i don't know much about that one i don't i mean i've had it explained to me a few different times i don't really understand what how really understand how TikTok's different than the other things that are going on. It's an assault on your attention span.

It just sucks your attention span in. I don't need any more of that. It grabs it and drags it. Because the videos start playing instantaneously. You don't play them. They play instantly. You open the app. They just play video after video after video.

And you're just like, ah! It just hooks you. I need more of that. But I know a lot of people that will say, I'm just going to look at it for a couple minutes. And the next hour and a half is gone. I'm like, ah! It just hooks you. I need more of that. But I know a lot of people that will say, I'm just going to look at it for a couple minutes, and the next hour and a half is gone. I'm like, what the fuck? Where's my day?

Yeah, there's funny stuff out there. I mean, I don't have a problem with it. What do you do to entertain yourself? Do you have a specific thing that you like to do when you wind down? Do you like to watch documentaries? I do watch a lot of documentaries. I read a lot of memoirs. Really? I a lot of documentaries read a lot of uh memoirs really like those yeah a lot of music memoirs i'll read most books uh i'm going to

give a shout out right now i don't know richard marks has a great new book i just picked up yeah reading on the airplane yesterday oh so he should know he's a social media guy is he yeah and he should know it's working countering everything i just said about my own shit his is working because i picked up his book and I think it's great. It's really entertaining. What's it called? Oh, here he goes. Laptop.

Jamie, you got it? Let's see, we're going to put it up on the big screen. Stories to tell. Stories to tell, is that it? Yeah. Sorry, the tweet didn't blow. Yeah. That's what it's called.

Well, because I think anybody who's in my shoes in any similar capacity, they got an interesting story. There he is. Is that live? Hey, man. Still got the messed up hair on purpose. But everybody who came to LA to make it, I find their stories are interesting. Or New York, wherever they went.

Yeah. Do you contrast those to your own story? And just, does it give you a feeling of like, just understanding that everybody's weird little path to try to get to where they are is different. Well, absolutely. Yeah. And there's a,

well, what do you mean more specific? I mean, just that your business, like if you're, if you're reading music memoirs, that is your business and it's a strange business, right?

And it's a business. It's very much like comedy in a way that, you know, you're reading music memoirs, that is your business. And it's a strange business, right? And it's a business. It's very much like comedy in a way that, you know, you're off with your first footsteps and good luck. Who knows where this journey is going to take you? And it's fascinating to me. I've read a bunch of comedians' memoirs or autobiographies or biographies on comics. And it's fascinating just because I can contrast those to my own life and just think about this weird path that they went on. And I think of my own weird path and that it's a wild world you're carving out when you're carving a career in music or in comedy. You're just kind of like hoping it works out and you have no idea.

Yeah, and that is what connects a lot of those stories is interesting is most people you're talking about they come from nowhere they come from nothing and that doesn't mean they don't have a nice family life i just mean that there no one's watching them right it could be anybody yeah you know talent is not you know it's not a genetic thing you know it's like literally just thrown up in the air and it just somewhere falls on random people around the world you know so how does it connect to one person who then has the ability to figure out a way to make it through, call it a dream, whatever, and get there? There's no blueprint.

The blueprints don't work. Any template you might try to follow, it worked for that person. And there's just no reason for you to think it's going to work for you too. You might start out chasing that, but inevitably you're going to have to find your own path. A hundred percent. But it's really interesting watching someone's path when you know that they already did it.

There's something about that, like reading about Kenneson, like knowing that he already did it, just to read the path and how it all went down. Yeah, and it's interesting too if you look at like, Prince had a really good book. It was actually a collection of things he'd written with somebody just before that he passed. But you read the book and it's interesting because you because you're like, you are, of course, you

know, he's going to be Prince, one of the more talented people that may ever, you know, walk the planet. And so you're reading it and you're hearing him get denied with demo tapes and you're hearing no one's believing in him that he's a weird kid and all that. But you know that he's Prince. Yeah. You have like, as you read the book, you kind of have a secret that like, you're unstoppable. Like this stuff doesn't really that like you're unstoppable like this

stuff doesn't really matter what you're going through in your high school and you like basketball and this person denied and that person didn't want to be like none of this is it's interesting but what's actually most fascinating is you literally were you were destined to be prince one way or another yeah this stuff is almost inconsequential you're going to be prince someday well it is fascinating knowing that he he did become prince but you kind of feel the anxiety of the journey right like when you're reading about someone even though you know it is inconsequential you are there's no denying he became prince but he didn't know that while it was all going down no that's what's cool about it but it's fun to read you can read that and you can

hear the people who don't believe in him and you can be you know like we all have a i miss that one kind of moment or i didn't see that but like like imagine being the guy who's like yeah you know i had prince came into my i didn't hear it yeah i didn't hear it i remember the exact moment i first listened to prince i was in an audi fox i had an audi fox this is a little shitty front wheel drive car i was driving on the Massachusetts Turnpike and I had a cassette that I just bought and I just unwrapped it and I popped it into the cassette player and it was, I listened to I'm Going to Be Your Lover. I want to be your lover, that song. And it was the one where, you know, the cassette where him, it's like, he's got no

shirt on and it's like, he's just staring at the camera. And I remember thinking like, holy shit, like who is this guy? Like this is just different. You know, it's like he's singing in a falsetto about being in love with a girl and his voice is incredible. Well, you could be that outrageous if you're going to be really good. We get a lot of the other, which is people who are outrageous and they're compensating for not really having much to sing or say, but like he was fully loaded. He had all had all of it well he was that guy i

mean that's who he was i mean it was outrageous because he was an honestly eccentric human being i mean that really was who he was an insanely talented eccentric human being you know i met him once actually i met him with dean del Rey. No way. Yeah. At a club out in New York, maybe it's early 2000s. And I forget what the club was. It was very, it was crowded. And somebody, this is a true story. Somebody had come to me and said, tapped me on the shoulder and said, you know, Prince is here. He wants you to come sit down. And I seriously, I swear I followed and I thought I was going to go sit with Prince William. And I seriously, I sort of followed, and I thought I was going to go sit with Prince William.

That sounded more believable to me. That sounded like that I believed. And then we went over, and it was obviously Prince. Prince Roger Nelson. Yeah, but it was a really funny night. I'm glad Dean was there, too. We sat in a booth. It was Prince, and it was his lawyer bodyguard. He had a lawyer slash bodyguard?

That's what he was, and he was a very big guy. And we sat in a booth and it's hard to imagine now that like, you know, the guy, he wasn't like being swarmed with people and it was Prince, you know, but, um, it, the, he it's, it's awkward. It's like, you know, he's sitting four of us from the booth, just kind of like, you know, I know what to say. And it's kind of loud. So if he did, if I did want to really have a conversation, it'd be difficult, but the bodyguard kind of nudges me and he says, you know, it's been 25 years since Purple Rain. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. And then he's sitting next to me.

He goes, excuse me? I said, that's awesome. He goes, what's awesome? I go, the Purple Rain is 25 years old. What a great record. And he goes, great record? I said, yeah. He goes, well, tell him.

And he's pointing at Prince. So now I well tell him he's pointing at prince so now like he's a very large man is like nudging me and i'm thinking that's amazing prince seriously he is he he cannot be insecure that people don't love purple rain but i leaned over and i said you know purple rain like wow 25 years what a great record and he kind of fanned himself he's like oh well you think so and like even prince needed to hear once in a while that he was awesome how weird is it his bodyguard his big giant dude's like nudging you to tell prince that he's awesome i felt like i got set up like he knew prince needed a compliment maybe i'd be nervous he would go of course it's good motherfucker yeah i was nervous well it was awkward like what is it it's like the night at the rocks where you just kind of sit in the booth

just like you know uh it is it is him it is it is prince right it is just like, you know. It is him. It is Prince, right? It is. And then like, you know. And so you guys aren't really interacting? A little bit. Not a lot. I think he just invited me just to come sit in his booth. Just to sit? But it was also very loud, but that wasn't the problem.

I think he just, you know, I don't know why I was asked to sit, but he was very nice. He was, you know, I don't know why I was asked to sit, but he was very nice. He was, you know, he was very cool. Wow. Yeah, I fucked up once real bad. I had an opportunity to see him live at the House of Blues in Vegas, and he was in the foundation room, you know, that small room upstairs, and it was, I had a show, and my show was done by like 10 o'clock or something like that and

prince was gonna go on somewhere after midnight and it was like 11 30 and i was like fuck i'm tired i don't want to wait around and i fucked up yeah you did and it was like early 2000 ish somewhere around well you feel like you fucked up only because you never got a chance to see him. I was just being a bitch. Like, stay up, power through. A lot of times you could say you couldn't see that coming. That one you probably should have stuck around for.

You wouldn't get a lot of chances. I think it was one of those, there was a lot of nights where I would do the UFC and then after I did commentary, then I would do a show, and then after I did a then I would do a show and then after I did a show I was done. I was just beat. I just yeah, but I still should have powered through Yeah, if I had the opportunity today, I would Fuck him one. Yeah a lot of times you do the wrong thing when you say well, yeah, but I got the story

Your story sucks. My story sucks. It's not good. It's like never met him I never saw him, but I had a chance to see him in a small venue. And they were setting it up for me. They were gonna hook it up. If you're in bands traveling through Minneapolis, every time you went through there, no matter what, from like, maybe like 91 when we started, mostly up till he passed,

every time your band went through town, somebody told you, you know, he's doing a private gig tonight. Ooh. So you're like, where's that at? And they tell you, and you would hang out, and you'd be like, well, he doesn doing a private gig tonight. Ooh. So, where's that at? And they'd tell you, and you would hang out, and you'd be like, well, he doesn't go on until four. I mean, it was literally every time the rumor would circulate

that he's playing right around you, right around the corner, you should stick around, and he never did. Really? He just wouldn't show up? I don't think he ever was gonna. I think it was just a Minneapolis rumor nightly. Oh, wow. Because he liked to do that, and he would do that sometimes.

He liked to do those gigs, or he liked to tell people he was going to do gigs and not show up? No, I think he liked to just jump up. No, I think he liked to just surprise people and play. I mean, I could do that sometimes. We're on tour. You can go late night to where a bar band's playing, and you can ask to use the gear and play a little bit. When you're on tour, a lot of bands like to do that. So I'm sure he liked to do that too and just go downtown Minneapolis

and just hijack somebody's stage and play some music. And if you do it a couple times, from then on out, rumor circulates that you're about to do it tonight. Yeah. Yeah, I've done that before. And there's a place in Toronto that I used to do where I used to do this. It's a weed bar. And they had weird laws in Toronto.

I forget what the law was. But it was almost like it was some sort of a club. I don't know if it was legal or not. But they had bongs in the front. Literally like a head shop. And then you go in the back room. And there's like 150 seats. And a stage.

And you go in there. And everyone's barbecued like they're smoking so much pot there's no more air in the room it's all just pot smoke so you're just breathing pot smoke so i would do a gig like a big place and then go there after the gig and do like a late night spot there are those easy laughs i mean everybody's already no man it's bizarre like first of all pacing's a little slow for everybody you're so high the moment you get in there. You're so you there's no air. Yeah, it's all just pot smoke So you're you're basically like in some weird altered state Trying to interact that's it. That's the spot. There's a video of me on stage there with the iron cheek

like me me on stage there with the iron cheek like me uh so ridiculous spot i think it's called the comedy underground is that what it's called it's closed now it's closed yeah kovat took it out i think so but yeah that's one of those things that comics like to do i was uh i was in denver once just randomly uh i was doing shows and uh i get off stage and stage and Dave Chappelle's in the green room. And I go, what are you doing, Dave? And he goes, oh, I just decided to fly to Denver. And I go, do you want to go on stage? He goes, well, should I?

I go, fuck yeah. Hold on a second. So I go back to the audience and I go, hey, come back. Sit down. I go, Dave Chappelle's here. So everybody's like calling people from outside that already made it to the street. Come down and Dave does another hour. And then he takes me out on the town like Dave Chappelle knows like these he knows these little speakeasies where there's these weird bars you go down an

alleyway it doesn't make any sense and then a guy's waiting with a suit and he puts his hand up and they open up a door with no sign on it and you go in and there's this beautiful bar that seats like 30 people. It's like one of those weird things. He's that guy. He's that guy that he'll show up anywhere and do a show at one o'clock in the morning. He'll show up at bars on his birthday.

He'll just show up and then by the time he's off stage the place is packed. Do you intentionally try out new material when you do something like that? Would Chappelle do that? Or you don't do your normal bits, would you? I think he just does it to just do stand-up. I think he would do his normal bits.

But open mic nights are a great place to stop in to do new material. It's good to do new material at a place where the audience doesn't exactly know that you're going to be there. So they may not be your fans. Do you ever just jump up and do that with no material or is that not wise? The only time I ever do that is they have shows like that. Like they have a show in Austin called The Riff and there's a wheel and they have all these subjects that the audience members will fill out forms and they'll fill out like an index card with like a subject and they throw it into

this bucket and then they stick the subjects on the wheel card with like a subject, and they throw it into the bucket. And then they stick the subjects on the wheel, and you just spin the wheel. And whatever it lands on, then you start talking about it. What might it be? Like what would, what, music or might say? Pharmaceutical drugs. Okay.

It could be music. It could be premarital sex. It could be whatever. That's high flying. That's on the wire. That's pretty good. But the audience knows you're doing it

so it's a safety net like it's fun they know they're coming to see that yeah and if it's not awesome well nobody can be too disappointed it's not like you didn't

take the gig seriously you didn't you just showed up we used to do that in LA too there's a show it used to be called Thunder Pussy and they changed it

to Stand Up On The Spot which is a much more tame version of hey wait a second i gotta ask you what about that uh is it byron allen byron allen that show that show that's not on anymore is it it's on like three in the morning weird hours that guy's made a billion dollars what's up with that show does he doesn't do it anymore right i don't know he might but it might be still it's a really strange show. Like, hey, Jacob, I understand that you like guitars.

Well, exactly. It's like, so you just flew. You like Hawaii. It's like there's no, it makes no sense going from one thing to the other. And obviously, like, it's a strange format, which is like they have to act natural. But it's so obvious. I mean, when you do any show, when you go to Letterman, yeah, you do an interview with somebody and they'd have some things you're going to talk about and it would feel kind of natural. But that is like one person is going off hysterically about, you do an interview with somebody and they'd have some things you're going to talk about and it would feel kind of natural. Right.

But that is like one person is going off hysterically about this car that he bought and then it just goes right into skiing. Right. And there's nothing natural about any of it. Right. And Adam Carolla is talking about grilled cheese sandwiches and then this guy, Gabriel Iglesias. Well, that's the weirdest. So you don't like grilled cheese sandwiches, do you? But I wonder if it's not on it.

They don't film it anymore because somebody should they might they might still film that up it is one it's one of the clunkiest shows it's ever existed so strange it's not good i mean i've seen some really funny but everyone's talking over each other you can't it's strange i but i wonder if it's uh if if he's not doing that anymore i mean if you're young comic when i, there must have been a big arrival moment if you were cast to be on that show. Not really. Not really?

Like 10 years ago, you were nobody and they let you be on that show? It's okay. A big arrival moment is Letterman. Not quite that. Those are the big shows. But that's a unique thing that it was like four comedians in one moment.

Yeah, but it was on at one in the morning. Was it always? I think it was a syndicated show, so I think it was very profitable for him because it was... You should do that. You should do one. The same version Was it always? I think it was a syndicated show, so I think it was very profitable for him because it was... You should do one. The same version of it? Like a version?

No. No. I just do this. Not a good model? No, you don't want people to do... I think you should leave all this behind. It's not like this is going well for you anyway. We're comedians.

Cut loose. Yeah, there... It was only taped for one season. They did... It says they added more shows in 2014, which was seven years later, and they haven't... No updates since then. Wait, so there's only two which was seven years later, and they haven't, no updates. Wait, so there's only two seasons of it?

Yeah, and they're like 15 years old. What? Yeah. That's according to the Wikipedia. What? Because he went on to, like, his company just bought the Weather Channel a couple years ago. Okay.

I'm telling you, Byron Allen is one of, like, the most undercover billionaire characters in all of show business. Yeah, he's made a shitload of money, and he made a lot of money off of that show. Because it's a syndicated show, so he could sell it. Oh, sure. And they always needed something. But you don't think there's a spot for updating that format and having somebody do it? It's a terrible way to do jokes.

Yeah, it's terrible. Oh, no, but yes, I agree. Yeah, a better way. Let's do it. Why are you into this? Are you secretly harboring ideas about doing stand-up? how well have i sold this idea pretty good yeah i'm getting sweaty i'm in man i've got goosebumps yeah all right bad idea no it's you just can't it's just it's crazy you can pull it off if you're a good comic you could pull it off and be funny

in those little chunks but it's so obvious that this is set up it's like like it's it's like a bad acting gig yeah you know it's like it's obvious you're acting yes yes you like that it's also kind of like what about the rap battles those ones you know when they insult each other like those are it's kind of a similar thing like there's nothing that there's no other natural format for this of just one other i mean i'm not going to go down the road of like telling you i know what is happening in that world but it's the same it's kind of similar it's an unnatural environment to have people doing their whatever whatever is they like doing like in competition basically yeah but rap battling is kind of an art in and of itself that's a different thing that's like have you seen roast

battle do you know about Roast Battle? No. Roast Battle is one of the best shows at the Comedy Store. And it became a show on Comedy Central, but they kind of fucked it up because they watered it down. Okay. Roast Battle is a show that's at the Comedy Store that is, it's my friend Brian Moses' show. Him and Jeff Ross is a part of it, too. And what it is is they'll have comics and they'll let them know in advance they're going to duke it out so like say if you and Jamie were going to duke it out you would know like hey on the 14th you guys are going to have your night and so you

would write jokes about Jamie for weeks and Jamie would write jokes about you for weeks and then you'd stand next to each other and uh Jamie be like, Jacob is Bob Dylan's son. I think I've seen that. Yeah. It's fucking great. But then it's not happening anymore. Oh, it still happens. Yeah.

Oh, but you mean live, not a show. It's live. It's not a show. It's better live anyway. It's one of those things where they fucked it up turning into a show. Look, I'm glad they did it as a show because I'm glad those guys made money and Comedy Central put a highlight. Maybe, do they do that anymore?

Roast Battle's not a show anymore, right? Is that correct? Not on Comedy Central, I don't believe. No, but they're doing it online now from the Comedy Store. Great. Sort of, yeah. As long as they just leave it alone and broadcast it live. The problem is Comedy Central, they wanted to get their greasy little PC fingers all over it and fuck it up.

Because it is literally the most ruthless show I've ever seen in my life but Brian Moses who's the host of it is one of the nicest guys ever and one of his things is everybody's got a hug at the end like you talk shit about each other and then hug it out well most often I imagine those comedians are friends going into it right yeah so if you did you see some at the end of it they weren't friends yes really 100% yeah you see some of the lines that people would hit people with that hurt so bad and they would be talking about it like weeks later can you believe that motherfucker said that about me man like but but obviously you know going into this that's probably what's gonna happen that is what's gonna happen 100 of the time now i've seen

some of those you know the uh you know the roast that jeffrey ross does yeah what do you call it the what roast what roast is that uh yeah like just roast yeah like the roast of rob low or something like that i mean that's like i mean i'm happy you guys have that format you guys deserve to always have that to just say whatever the hell you want yeah but some of it is like i can't imagine that those two people are gonna be friends again afterwards i'm not a roaster i'm just not why not i mean it's not afterwards. I'm not a roaster. Why not? It's not my style. I'm not interested.

I don't like being mean like that. I definitely don't want to be mean while someone's sitting right there. It's just like if I don't like someone, I don't want to be around them. And if I like them, I don't want to say mean shit to them. And if you don't say mean,

it's not going to be as funny. The people that are willing to go hard in the paint, they're the best at it. Tony Hinchcliffe's probably the best at it ever. Yeah, he's the most vicious Yeah, yeah, but I guess also if you allow yourself to be roasted you I mean yeah I don't care how you think you are nobody's bulletproof some of that's gotta hurt. Oh for sure Yeah, yeah for sure, but you know If you could take it, it's it, it could be a fun time. Yeah, I know.

They're not calling me anyway, but no, I don't think I could take it. It's not fun. It's not for everybody. It's not fun, but it's a style of comedy. You know, it's like the dozens. You're talking shit about people, you know? Yeah, I've seen, of course, some wild ones. Sometimes you cringe and feel terrible.

Yeah, well, that is one of the things that brought me back to the comic store. When I went to the comic store in 2014, the first time I saw that, I hadn't been to the comic store in like seven years, and I saw that, and I was like, wow. Yeah. It's really a joke-writing show. Obviously, you're insulting each other, but it's all new stuff. And one of the things that I told comics, I'm like,

there's so many guys that are doing this that are writing and girls and whatever that are writing these bits that are they're doing such a good job crafting this material but then when you watch the regular act they're not taking any chances they're not writing any new things right because they've they've known that there's this deadline this looming date of doom yeah's on in two weeks from now. Did the internet change that? I mean, for acts, for music acts, the internet being filmed every night changed their ability to do the same shtick every night

and set up songs with the same stories. I mean, they can still do it, but I would think there's some amount of self-conscious, I wouldn't say embarrassment, that your fans who have been watching every show of this tour, they're watching you introduce this song with the same story that it's an act. Right.

And you're kind of, now you know. I mean, you always kind of thought so, but now you know because you just watched this person set up the song the same way the last 10 nights. I mean, because there's great storytellers who set up songs, whether, you know, Bono would tell, you know, he always, he would like to talk a lot. And then what happens when suddenly the magic of this was supposed to be an inspirational story I'm telling tonight for the first time is gone?

Do you have to, I know for bands, a lot of people brought that back a little bit. They curtailed that because it's just not a good look, that you're basically scripted your bits to set up songs. But it's been fascinating to me watching you guys do that. For me, it's the first time watching, but you've got friends on the side of the stage and you're telling jokes you've told before,

and they'll come up to you afterwards and say you killed it tonight. But you're telling a joke you know they've heard 20 times, but it's kind of like a singer-songwriter, or anybody in a band who had a great performance of that song tonight, you know the song, but you killed it tonight. Yeah.

It seems so interesting to me that you can do that with comedians. You'll tell your friend, even though you knew those jokes, boy, you nailed it tonight. And you, the person telling the jokes, is not self-conscious that my friends are over here having heard me tell this bit 20 times.

No, they know that we know. So it's like, they're fine with that. The thing, if the audience had seen the bits yeah that'd be a real problem but you're not self-conscious telling this joke for the 20th time with your friend over here no not that's what that's interesting to know because the comics will tell you i like how you're setting that up this way i like how you cut that part out i like this new tag you added okay yeah and that's part of the reason you probably do it too some feedback from other joke tellers for sure for sure yeah it helps a lot when someone's

there and they could say you know last night you said it this way but tonight you said it that way and that that way's better okay or it's also there's a thing that happens with comedy where you really don't know what works until you do it in front of an audience like i would i would imagine you could write a song completely without any audience member just you and the band members and you guys could put it together and record it and not have any feedback from anybody else other than you guys and then it would be an amazing song that's impossible right there's no gratification

to tell a joke and just you know it's funny yeah well not just that it won't be done right it needs to be performed but you can write a song like you just said yeah and it is better to share it with somebody because that is a lot of the motivation it's i don't write songs for me just listen to my mixtape of my own music in my bedroom yeah so you do want it doesn't matter who you are anybody tells you that they don't the night into that there's there's lying people want

positive feedback sure and that's part of the exchange is i wrote it i created it and now i want to see how people react to it even prince but i can record in the studio yeah of course even prince like i can we can record and i can hear it come out of it, and now I want to see how people react to it. Even Prince. But I can record in the studio. Yeah, of course, even Prince. We can record it, and I can hear it come out of the speakers, and I can get a rush of how that's what we wanted to do, and that sounds good. You don't get any rush unless you tell the joke. No rush unless it's in front of an audience, and you don't know.

There's many times where I wrote a bit, and I've got it set up. I've got the beats. I've got the concept. I've got a point I'm trying to make But then I go on stage and parts that I didn't think are gonna be funny at all or the funniest part I'm like wow, and then you realize like oh They're seeing it for the first time in a different way. They don't know what's coming next so they they're seeing it There's you it's almost like you don't have the ability to see the joke. You're constructing it blind.

You're putting it together and you kind of know how it's going to go out, but you don't really know until you're performing in front of people. And then when they see it for the first time, they decide. They decide. And then you have bits you thought were going to be the strongest part of the set and like nobody, nobody. Absolutely. And the thing you thought was just one joke to get to the next joke, you know, was actually,

but that's, those stories are countless for people. I mean, I would say almost every record I've done, my favorite song I thought was going to be the best,

like nobody noticed. And then the songs, like really that one, like that's the one that surprised me because you don't know. How could you know? Yeah,

you don't know what it's going to be like to hear that song for the first time when you have no idea what the lyrics are. And you don't know what kind of,

the people who are listening don't know what kind of work you put into it. They don it's easy or hard they don't like warren zvon's where was london is apparently like that oh really yeah that was not like that was like an afterthought of the session and it's his signature song and there's a lot crazy if i'm wrong i've you know forgive me on that but that's a story i've heard and there's other stories like that they people have countless stories of like the song that got over was the last one anybody really cared about is there any one of yours like that that you thought were going to be giant and they didn't i thought they were all going to be trying i'm still surprised they're not all giant um no no i wouldn't say so i mean i don't get too involved i never have gotten too involved with that like

going to record companies and telling them i think this should be a single i i don't get too involved I never have gotten too involved with that like going to record companies and telling them I think this should be a single I don't that's like not my I can tell you what my favorite song is but that's what they do for that's their jobs

yeah you know I'm not gonna you know they have hopefully good experience in knowing how to do that I'm hopefully gonna like all of them

so if somebody wants to promote one or the other like it doesn't it's never mattered to me too much which one so what is the process when you bring an album to the record company and you know they hear it for the first time?

They're hearing the complete, like, they're not involved at all until you slap it down on wax and you bring it to them, right? For me, that's how it's all. I've never had a record company, you know, with their hands in a record. I've never been uncomfortable or been told to do one thing or the other. You know, and I've worked with lots of different people, different labels, and you hear those stories of people feel like the record company made them do this or that, or they went more commercial.

No one's ever been in my business from making records like that, from a record label, no. So when you bring it to them, it's a completed project? Mostly, I mean, usually you have, you know, what they call an A&R person, who hopefully you like, who comes around the sessions and work together, you know, with calling an A&R person who hopefully you like, who comes around the sessions and work together, you know, so they know what's going on. And so they give you some feedback or they talk to you about it? Yeah. And you know, from my experience, it's always, if I disagreed with the feedback, that was fine. Sometimes they

have good ideas, you know, I, I, it's better off to see them as an asset in a team rather than anything else. Otherwise it's bad for everybody everybody that's what authors say about editors that you have to have some sort of a working relationship where you trust that person and appreciate them yeah and hopefully they can be really helpful to you yeah you know and people in your studio are not different than editors really in a way too that's what record producers maybe could do for you like i use record producers i don't really need one because i know how to make records on my own but it's somebody else, the different set of ears,

they can help you edit and be honest with you. And so you bring the music to them and then they will say, hey, Jacob, this is a single. Yeah. Well, I call them focus tracks now. Focus tracks.

I mean, I'm not in the world of singles. That's you're talking about. When does that shift? I don't know. It just happened recently, I think. Focus tracks. Yeah. Well, because a single in the world of singles. You're talking about street. When does that shift? I don't know. It just happened recently, I think. Focus tracks. Interesting. Well, because a single, you know, doesn't that bring up the picture of like a 45 and

going to radio stations and like, I got some wax, I gotta play this. Yeah. You know, and then videos and all that. That's for, I think they just call them focus tracks now. I like that term. That's a cool term. It's really passive aggressive and it's really like kind of not here nor there. How's it passive aggressive?

Just like it's a single because you think you're making singles, but we don't really do singles anymore. So we're not going to look at it that way. We're just going to call it a focus track. And then you wonder, well, who's focusing on what? I don't understand. I'm confused. So how does it work now? What's important? Radio exists when when is it what's what's important radio?

Exists, but is it important? Well, it's not the same right then what you and I grew up with but that's okay I mean serious still I mean is that valuable? What's it what's valuable streaming streaming streaming and is it... Because you make so much money when they stream your songs. You're lying. Oh, yeah, man. Well, you know, that talk about something happening. Somebody's making a lot of money.

Yeah, I don't know how that happened. Somehow they figured that out. These motherfuckers are clever. You know, and some of the people who... Like, I mean, put anybody in this chair does what I do. Like, they can probably explain to you, like, how it happened, but we don't know when it happened and how it stuck. That, like, we're just going to take your music and you know you're going to make zero zero like 0.5 cents for 50 streams I mean like that's really affected a lot of people greatly

it's got you know but when you say what is saying like that's you ask what does count what does matter streaming but in that world but it doesn't count in the same sense that record sales counted 20 years ago i don't think so i mean i'm not i don't i mean honestly like 20 years is wrong too right it's more like 25 since what since people were selling loads of records like that's that was 2000 yeah yeah no that changed everything record company had a chance to really not screw that up. You know, those guys at Napster, they wanted to, like, party together. They wanted to, like, do business together. Record business said no.

And don't ask me how the film business, you know, figured that out and protected themselves better. But I remember being around and hearing those conversations about the Napster stuff. And, like, record business was, like, you know, put the finger to them. And, like, I mean, nobody could see what was coming except the Napster people. But, like, it was just going to all dissipate. And the record business was like, you know, put the finger to them. And like, I mean, nobody could see what was coming except the Napster people. But like, it was just going to all dissipate. And the record business never recovered. I remember finding out about it that you could just download almost any album. You just hit that button.

Hopefully, I'll get interrupted for the next three days. And you got that record. Yeah, I was like, this is the craziest shit I've ever seen in my life. And I had them all on one of them old wheel style iPods. I remember like you get your friend would like give you, hey, you wanna download my hard drive? And you borrow it. And like, yeah, I saw that.

I mean, I wasn't that defiant about it. I wasn't gonna, you know, I just thought, I wasn't maybe the size of artist that could really object. Or, you know, I saw it happening. And if Metallica can't shut it down, I don't think I'm gonna be able to shut it down right you know what i mean and then trying to shut it down they really developed it's a very bad taste they put in everybody's mouth yeah they recovered but i don't think they were totally wrong to be honest like they weren't wrong but i think lars like the tone that he had about it was incorrect well they seem to be drawing a

line between the artists and the fans, and that's what was upsetting to people. And everybody was really just, no one had any idea. And Metallica, I think themselves have, I don't know how they word it, but they're not proud of that moment. But they weren't wrong for trying to stop the avalanche.

They saw where it was coming. And to some degree, they couldn't stop it. And then you have loads of artists today who can't work because I'm sorry people like to say you can't they don't want to hear about art and commerce being connected but like you know young bands don't make a living like they gotta go get jobs they can't play for you

you know and for a lot of acts you know selling CDs out of your car or whatever that was enough to make a nice little living for themselves and with that gone those people have regular jobs now. Do you think it's possible for someone to develop a YouTube-style streaming service where the artist can upload directly to it and then they can profit off of it and they can maybe split the profits?

You know, the way YouTube does it with content creators, like say if you decide to be a content creator, you want to make some videos, you're splitting the revenue with YouTube, but you can make a tremendous amount of money there that doesn't exist with streaming right it's not the same kind of situation i think you know again i'm not an expert in this but you're talking about such a small little file like yeah in concept what you're saying is makes sense but how are they not just going to steal that and it'll be up any somewhere else for free within five minutes but doesn doesn't YouTube have a music service? They have YouTube music. Do they do that with YouTube music?

Do they share revenue with the artists? The way they do it with video? What they do with video is pretty... But is that exclusive? A lot of people give YouTube shit about their censorship, and they deserve that shit. But they also deserve accolades for the way they've allowed content creators to make money.

They've kind of said, look, we'll work with you. We have this crazy platform, the biggest video platform in the world. You can upload your videos and you can make a considerable amount of money off of this YouTube platform. It's pretty nice that they do that. If they could have something similar with music and then people just adopt it because I know a lot of people start they're using there's a YouTube music app now you know they could have that sort of same sort of similar situation artists can become very popular inside of that world but is that exclusive would that be exclusive with that artist the only way it could be is if you would have a copyright on that like if you have a copyright on a video like say if you have a copyright on a video, like say if you upload a video on YouTube

and then someone else puts it on their channel, you could have that struck. You have a copyright strike, you could take it down. I think at the end, you know, you're talking about asking younger people today specifically to go pay for stuff maybe getting for free for a long time. I don't think that's the only way.

But that's not what it is. You don't ask them to pay. The revenue comes from advertising. So you ask people to pay for the service, the same way they pay for Spotify, the same way they pay for Apple Music. It's not an exorbitant amount of money. It's a small amount of money per month. But in that, you get an unlimited amount of music.

I'm for any experiment. I think that's a good experiment. Because it's free-falling right now. And I'm okay. If I was coming up today, like, I don't know how you get started. Well,

I have friends that are artists that are musicians today. It's a fucking grind, like really talented ones that are barely getting by. And it's, it drives me crazy. And I don't understand. And we're all missing out. Yeah,

we are missing out on great talent. Yes. We're missing out on their work. Yeah. Because they, you know, first of all, record labels don't,

I came up the days where, you know, record of all record labels don't I came up the days We're you know record the record label wasn't expecting your first record to do anything, right? Maybe the second one would but it's the third one. They really want that's they're building you Yes, and I might take seven years, right, you know, but you know, that's unheard of now So again, we miss out just because a lot of those people that need that time to develop, need the support, need the funding, you know, they've got to have jobs and they can't devote all their time to doing it for us. So we're the ones who miss out on the end. is the money people that figure out how to lock these people into some long-term contract where the lion's share of all their work and creativity is going to be enjoyed by the company and not by the artists themselves you always have these crazy that part of the models i mean hopefully there's

enough pie to go around everybody is kind of okay with that i mean there's a certain number you get to where you probably don't care anymore how much they're making because you're making so much also you know but uh but that model that's that that's not a mystery especially if you're like coming up the times like when i came up like we already knew all that is if you got if you got locked into a bad record contract where somebody screwed you over like it's kind of on you a little bit it wasn't like it's not the 50s the 60s where like we stepped into things and didn't know uh and it has nothing with my background i never got screwed over though the worst people i've ever met in this business were in the bands they were not they were not the labels because you know who they are you know what they're doing they don't really change

you're not gonna be you won't be fooled you know it's the people that you have camaraderie with that you think are in the trenches with you that you find out like those people let you down more that you get hoodwinked by the business people you there's no secret what they're doing have you been you've been hoodwinked by other artists every well everybody has really yeah i just unless i'm not making a point about artists or shitty i'm just saying the big bad record business like not not for me not my days i've worked with some great people you know some really supportive uh um positive people who've been a great part of my career you know some really supportive positive people who've been a great part of my career you know I actually can't I can only name like I can name 30 years

maybe like one or two people I came across who I hope I never see again in that end of the business otherwise like that's a pretty good ratio that is a very good ratio so essentially there's always gonna be people that take advantage of people that don't really understand or are too eager and accept a bad contract. Yeah. But there's no excuses for not reading that. And we're just too far along. It shouldn't be that easy to fool someone today. I've been offered a lot of bad contracts, but I didn't sign them either. It's that same kind of situation. And I've been in situations where I've looked at a contract and that's the nature of most business deals is someone's going to do better than somebody else. So when you look at that and you realize

it looks like you're, no matter what, going to do better, this isn't a good situation, I don't take that as a personal attack. It's like, okay, well, this isn't good for me. I'll go find somewhere else to do this. They're just establishing shitty rules for the game for you. But there's no connect, yeah. But they're in business.

It's like, again, Prince, what was his, what did he say? They owned his name, again, Prince, what was his, what did he say? They owned his name, right? I think it was something, I'm going to get the quote wrong, but somewhere around the time where he changed just the symbol, and somebody said something to him about the record business. He said, no, I'm not in the record business. You're in the record business.

I make music. And that's kind of it. It's true. But there's no similarities to them not there's no there's no similarities to them there's no reason you have a that you're a great talent that you should also have a great understanding of the business side of things you're not really interconnected for most people but we are far enough along now where hopefully you have somebody with you and things are more transparent that you shouldn't get locked into these horrible deals anymore do you remember

when courtney love wrote that piece where she was explaining the music I think it was in Spin Magazine where she was explaining the music business in terms of like where the money goes and how they fuck over artists do you remember that I don't remember that but then don't get in the music business that's not new I mean it's not is that a revelation did you did you read that you're like wow like It was shocking to me because I'm not in the music business. So to me, I was like, wow, so that's how they do it? Yeah. I was confused when it went into how much.

If you're a band, bands don't do this anymore. If your band sells 2 million records, everybody in that band is probably making a lot of money buying houses, right? And that CD costs $18. You're making your money. You're pretty happy. It's only down the road where someone says, okay, you did buy a house did you see how much that they made and you are shocked for a second to realize you take that cd and divide it up between yourselves your band and what the record

yeah they make a lot more than you that's why they're in the record business that's what's and there you know some of them are too smart to be in the bands or not smart enough well it depends on what what you can handle if you can I couldn't handle that kind of lifestyle myself. I don't want, I invent things out of nothing. I don't want to be somebody who, my whole livelihood is reactionary to other people creating something

that I can now work with. Right. I want to make it from scratch. Yeah, that's a weird situation to be in, relying upon other people's creativity for you to make a living yeah and but you know you can do that when you don't have a you don't have a a creative bone in your body some people are really good at numbers and math some people are really creative

you know and if you recognize early on well i would like to be i mean that's a lot of the great people who work outside of bands once wanted to be in a band but realized like i don't have it i love music but i want to be a part of it anyway i want to help someone else do great things you know right but i i'm not the guy to be in the band or the girl if you have your own music and you own your music what is what does a record label do for you in 2021 well what do you mean if you own your own music if you like if you create your own music right you say create your own music, right? Say you hire... What could a record label do for you?

Well, they have money that you don't have to promote and spend and put you on tour. You know, young bands need... They can't... You know, van or no van. It costs money to tour. A lot. You know, so...

So they basically loan you the money. That's how they can be good for a young band, really. Or any band. It's like otherwise you don't have the tools, the assets to get your music in lots of places. I mean, there's more opportunities with social media, of course. And it's, you know, look, the good news is anybody can do it now. And the bad news is anybody can do it now. It just means it's crowded.

And it's just like it's hard to know what anybody's up to. But record labels, they can still have a great purpose, of course. Some people say they're banks. They're just funding your trip. And you have a big bill at the end. And they have a connection to streaming services. Yeah, they have all those contacts that you wouldn't have on your own. Now, when a person is like, say if you're a new band and you get signed by a record company,

how does someone find out about you i mean what is the primary way they find out about you if it's not the radio which it always used to be do they find out about you through streaming services like are there channels that are sponsored that people get excited about because they know that this channel is where new interesting music gets broken we're both gonna do some home we're gonna do some homework after this. If I find out, I'll let you know. I mean, really, that's the question.

I don't know. I mean, because it's just jammed up everywhere. So a lot of great things about the way things work now. The models that we had before were really effective, too, and at least you could put yourself on a path that if you did X, Y, and Z, maybe your band would get a shot. Play your clubs, get your demo tape together, maybe a record company wants to work with you

and they're going to give you some money to practice. You know, you make that record, you make a video, and they give you some money to go on tour. Like, this was a path to maybe being a band that was successful. So you take that away. You know, it is just every man and woman for themselves just, you know, trying to find a way to, quote-unquote, kind of get lucky.

If you're an established act, you've got opportunities. If you're doing it the other way, it's really everybody who's trying to get lucky. And when someone sees what that person did, by the time you figure it out, it's too late. It's got to do something else. That's what it is. I mean, as far as I know. But I'm also not brand new. If I was 21 years old, I'd probably understand this better than I do.

You know, the way I came up was just a different, I mean, it was just a different model. And that's okay that a lot of that's gone. I mean, it's changed so drastically. I mean, you remember in the late like 90s, you know what the Diamond Award was? No. That's when they had to invent it. There was the gold record, platinum record. It wasn't enough. People were going like 12 times platinum so they invented the diamond award which was 10 million whoa the diamond award yeah that's how much money was going around in those

days before the internet really how many people buy cds today they still sell i don't know where you buy one online i guess i guess uh amazon yeah there's i mean yeah i I don't know where you buy one. Online, I guess? I guess. Amazon? Yeah, there's, I mean, I guess where are you going to play it? I mean, let's find. Laptops don't even have a hard drive. I think vinyl sells more than CDs right now, but I'm going to get a breakdown real quick. That's interesting.

Oh, for sure. No, no, it actually flopped. They don't, it was for a while like a bonus if your company wanted to spend some money and make vinyl with you. Now it's kind of like, you can throw in CDs, but the production of that is like you know yeah it's the cardboard you put around it it's cool now to have vinyl yeah these don't they don't seem cool but why would you have c i mean streaming is one thing i mean cds are oh wow streaming's 83 percent of music industry venue. Wow.

Sync. What is sync? That's to get new songs in TV and commercials and get licenses. That's 2%. Physical. 9% is physical. So that's live performances? No, physical is a combination of CDs and LPs.

Oh, physical things. Oh, I get it. And then digital downloads are 6%. So physical copies are just 9%. So we're taking up the bulk of that pie right there. And then streaming. Streaming takes up the bulk of the pie. So, yeah.

Oh, interesting. So CDs, it's kind of in 2020. What is happening in 2020? It says what? It's more vinyl than it is CD. And other physical. What are we looking at? The green and the blue, that's CD vinyl. The green is vinyl, which is the largest amount.

Vinyl's not like blowing up. Anybody tells you it's back, it's not like, it's not buying Kiss records in those days. Right. It's a boutique-y kind of thing, and it's cool. Yeah. And what's cool, it just costs a lot. So people who buy it, some people buy it from Urban Outfitters and just put the thing on

the wall, like decorations. I guess you could do that. But vinyl's like $28. Do you enjoy the sound of vinyl better? It's absolutely better. But at the end of the day, I don't really care. I just want to hear the sound. Really?

I don't. Well, I mean, that question, like, what's your, is it vinyl, MP3s, or CDs? Well, no, yeah, vinyl sounds the best, but I don't have a vinyl player in my car. I can't take it hiking,

so I'll listen to an MP3. Yeah, I just want to hear the song at the end of the day. I've been caught up in that. I bought this digital machine thing that attaches to your iPod. I never fucking used it. Digital machine thing.

Yeah, I don't know the name of it. I'm trying to describe it. I guess not. I'm sorry. But it attached. It was like a brick that attached to...

It was as large, if not larger, than my iPod. And it attached to the iPod. And what it did was it changed the sound and tried to make it more true to what the actual vinyl recording was like.

What year is this? Was it recently or this was like 20 years ago? No, at least 15 years ago. And I remember holding this stupid fucking thing in my hand and going, why did I buy this? And you're listening to it on what? Listening to it with a nice set of earphones. No, I had it over the years. Well, it does, yeah.

It says, you know, look, you ever go online and you want him to go crazy? You ever go look at, like, you know, turntables that cost $20,000. Really? Yeah, and the speakers and the cables. I mean, that's, you know, different kinds of gram for your vinyl. What are you going to use? But, you know, then you ask yourself, whatever you were listening to with that gadget, like the record you were listening to, was it even made analog?

Was it made on digital equipment to begin with? Right. Because a lot of people do, I mean what's, people they make digital records on Pro Tools and then they put them on vinyl. Like it's, isn't that like a little peculiar? I mean. Yeah, what is that? I don't know.

Holy shit, a $50,000 turntable. That's fucking dope as shit. Isn't it? Oh you get lost looking at these things. God, that's so pretty. You could buy that for $50,000. What a bargain. And then you put it in a row,

but then you have to have your room tuned. You have to have somebody set the acoustics in your room, put baffles. I mean, you'll never be done. Well, Henry Rollins, who's a gigantic record collector, showed us his setup. And he has these enormous towers in his living room that are like six feet tall. And they're a quarter million dollars plus of just- Were those their speakers? Just the speakers, yeah.

Oh, it's awesome if you got the bread and you got the room because it takes up a lot of space. I mean, you can't have your cables on the floor. Yeah, that's what he's got. That's his setup. Oh, looks like ATM machines. It looks like a robot. Oh, well, you see, he's...

Yeah, well, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, well, he's a freak. He's got a lot of CDs over there, too, though. Is that him? Well, whose room is this? That's his setup, yeah. That's his setup? That's his setup.

Yeah. That's awesome. But he just loves the sound. But it's all in. You have to go all in. See those cables? I mean, the speakers are off. You don't just take your desk and throw a turntable on it.

No. You have to do all this. Those speakers are out of control. I can't even imagine what's going on with those. I think those are, like I said, I think they're a quarter million dollars, right? Isn't that something? Something like that, yeah. Look at that fucking thing.

Hold on. Scroll down. What does it say? It's 200K. 200 grand, yeah. Oh, really? Wild shit, man. Different versions of them.

Look at that. It looks like exercise equipment. Yeah. You've got to be really into sitting there and listening to that stuff. And look at what's on the front of the speaker. The amps there, you've got to be really into sitting there and listening to that stuff. And look at what's on the front of the amps there. Yeah, what are those things? I think to turn them on, you do like the superhero three-finger. Yeah.

That's pretty wild. Yeah, well, he doesn't do music anymore. He just listens to it. Most of what he does when he performs, he does spoken word tours. He's sort of shifted into his own version of stand-up comedy. It's very humorous stuff and interesting takes on things, but he's not imprisoned by that format

where he has to get, if you're doing stand-up, people want it to be funny, funny, funny, funny. They want to leave laughs. He does spoken word stuff. He's got memoirs. He's very smart. It's really good, though.

Yeah, he's very smart. Very interesting stuff. I've always liked his stuff. I like him as a person. He's a fascinating cat. The way he's managed good though. Yeah, he's very smart. Very interesting stuff. I've always liked his stuff. I like him as a person. He's a fascinating cat. Like the way he's managed his life. You know, like he has no relationships. Like he's like, it's too hard.

It's like it's too much work. That's funny. It is funny. But when you talk to him and you realize how nuts he is in a good way. You know, I don't know when last time he did do an actual music. I don't think he could put his body through that. That's a young man's game when he was doing it. Oh yeah, like that song Liar.

Yeah, when he would get red in the neck. Well that was also back in his power lifting days too. We had this fucking neck that started at the top of his head and came straight down to his shoulders. Yeah, but that's a very physically, it's hard to age we'll say, when that's so much of your show is physical. I mean Iggy Pop does that, he still gets around.

Well my friend John Joseph from the Cro-Mags, John's gotta be 60 years old or close to it and he still performs. He like wraps up his ankles and warms up like he's about to get into a fight. Yeah, it is. But he also does Ironmans, like he's constantly training for Ironmans and he's about to get into a fight. Yeah, it is. But he also does Ironmans.

He's constantly training for Ironmans, and he's very strict with his diet. Well, it is. If you want to do that, there's guys my age who are getting their knees replaced and hips replaced. They jump around a lot on stage. 25 years later, it's like any athlete that's wearing tear. But it's hard.

Maynard blew his hip out that way. He's got a fake hip. Well, I mean, just the simple jumping off the riser. Oh, yeah. 20 times a night. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, so you have to find a way to, if you want to keep doing it. Some people just age out.

They don't want to do it anymore. Right. And that's okay, too. You can change your mind and just go do something else. No one says you had to be in a band or on stage your whole life. There's no contract you ever made that I'm aware of that said so. You can do something else. But if you want to keep going yeah you have to um you have to adapt but i think

for many people and this is the same in the world of comedy too the thrill of performing it just makes everything else seem so boring like any other kind of job that you would have even if it's satisfying and you enjoy it like there's many times where I've come off stage with my friends where we're like, can you imagine if you could never kill? Like, there's people out there in this world who've never gone on stage and killed. They don't even know what this is like.

Like, they don't get it. They're missing. Yeah, well that's right, and you deserve that. I mean, the people who don't allow themselves to figure out what that is are obviously missing out, but the world won't work if everybody figures that out. And there's gonna be a lot of things don't allow themselves to figure out what that is are obviously missing out, but the world won't work if everybody figures that out. There's gonna be a lot of things don't get done. That's true, that's true, but the point is

once you've already experienced that for many of these people, you've been a rock star, it's gotta be really hard to not be a rock star anymore. Well, you just don't want your life to be just about getting it done and just having a, I mean, that's like, what kind of life is that? And live for the summers or when you can get a few weeks to go you know skiing or something like right yeah i think most people wouldn't like that and most people don't have the opportunity to not

you know have those kinds of jobs and go to a high rise but like you know the luck i want to say the lucky people but if you do what you do yeah it's impossible to imagine that kind of life yeah i just imagine a guy like mick jagger that is pushing 80 years old who is still like we played a video the other day of him doing his like dance routine like at a dance studio going over his stuff and dancing and still got the moves i mean can you imagine and what you thought like go ahead and picture yourself at 25 years old and someone says you know gonna to go see a show. It's this guy. He's 80.

I mean, even like the Vegas crowd was done by 80. You know what I mean? Like the Rat Pack, they weren't doing that kind of stuff at 80. Well, they were always drunk. But it's a different age. Yeah, but 80 is not what it was. No. I mean, 80 is like, I don't know, what's 80?

Maybe 80 is the new 65. I don't know. But even then, at 65, who the fuck is dancing like Mick Jagger is? I don't know, maybe 80 is the new 65? I don't know. But even then, at 65, who the fuck is dancing like Mick Jagger is? I don't know. That's what's crazy. Well, that's one of the few. They can pull it off because he's still fit and he loves doing it, obviously. But that's a big part of the show. Nobody really wants to go see the Rolling Stones sitting in chairs.

I would still go, but it's not the show that the reputation is. And it's amazing that it's pretty astonishing to do that. It's hugely astonishing. I mean, he is the canary in the coal mine. But if he couldn't, they would be done because it's a touring band now. Yes. It's not a record-making band, really. That's the thing, right?

And I wanted to get into that. With a lot of bands, especially classic bands like the Stones, people don't necessarily want to hear their new stuff. They really want to hear this entire catalog of amazing songs that goes back decades. So what is that like when a band stops making new music and they just sing the old music? That's got to be a very different feeling as an artist,

because isn't part of being an artist creating, and isn't that part of the thrill of being an artist? You can't name anybody that's not true of. Doesn't matter, even the Rolling Stones, they wanna hear your hits. And even they are disappointed that there's not a lot of enthusiasm for a new record. Nobody is free of that.

You cannot name anybody who's been around for any amount of time the 30 or 40 years into their career people are as amped up as the quote-unquote glory days that's just part of the arc and hopefully your ego accepts that so you can be a performer and like put stock in that you have a catalog that people like even if you're disappointed that it's from 20, 30 years ago. But there's an alternative. There's nobody who's been hot for like 40 years. Well, they had an album that came out, I guess the last one that people wanted to hear their new stuff was in the 80s. It's Tattoo You. It was 1981.

But I think after that. I like Voodoo Lounge. There's been records, but you want to talk about going into the stadium. I mean, that's Tattoo You. It's a long time. But what was in the 80s? What did they have in like late 80s? It was like steel wheels.

Yeah, steel wheels. Yeah, and there's even the Stones, it's just, that's how it works. Has anybody dodged that? I couldn't tell you. It's the nature of it. If you're lucky, you burn hard and fast, and that's your ride. And then maybe you can It's the nature of it. If you're lucky, you burn hard and fast. That's your ride.

And then maybe you can have a career because of it. Yeah. And that's that intoxicant that a lot of people just can't get out of their mouth is just being the center of attention and the prom king. You can't for your whole life. You get one graduating class, this is your turn, and you're going to make room for somebody else and move on down and have a good career.

But you can't sustain that. I can't think of anybody who has. Yeah, I can't think of anybody who has either. Now you might have your favorite artist that you think continue to do great things after people stop listening. But in reality, as far as their popularity, it's a pretty predictable arc. But it also seems that there's a point in time

where they just stop producing new stuff almost all of them like almost all the great bands is that what it is well it can be and right now a lot of them don't want to make

records because what's the point right there's no money in it anymore well yeah Stevie Nicks has said that and I get it

she's like it takes a lot I gotta work really hard and it's expensive and nobody buys them why would I go do one of those you know

but that's a different era that she's maybe speaking from. But I do get that feeling that nobody wants to feel like they're working really hard and turning themselves inside out and there's no opportunity for anybody to get this and the attention span is so little. I don't think she's saying she doesn't want to do it again

if she can't do Rumors again. I don't think that's what she's saying. She's just saying like, I put everything I got into this and like I want it to be noticed. And I want to go do a show and I want people to care about the new songs, but they don't buy records and I get it. So why did a lot of the more established older acts

just not do it so much anymore? There's no bigger budget for them than it is for anybody else in the record business. Because nobody's selling records, you know what I mean? And Paul Simon, I love his, one of his most recent records his wristband song i thought that was just fantastic when was that uh we looked at it but years it's maybe oh six seven years ago or so but the point is like it was great if you like paul simon this is paul simon it sounds great these songs he's never gonna let you down as a songwriter but

did it react in the way that the other stuff did? Like, no, of course it didn't. It's not his fault. It's just not the world we live in anymore. Yeah, it's unavoidable. And there's also a thing, there's a limitation in time, right? If you go to see a band, go to see Bruce Springsteen, that guy's got so many fucking hits. Even though he does like four-hour you you won't it's gonna take

four hours to get through half the hits yeah yeah he makes records people still really care about i think but he's got a very large audience even if a small portion of them are coming to the to the table like you know he's he's i think stayed relevant he's one of the rare ones right he is and there's i mean that's i only thought of that because you mentioned it. You mentioned him. But that's not easy. And part of his, I think that what works for him is that he is willing to do whatever it takes to make a record, regardless of who it's meant for, the popularity. And he's got one of the biggest rock records of all time. I mean, you don't have to do that twice.

Right. You know what I mean? How many times can you reinvent rock and roll? Yeah. And is it your job to do that for. Right. You know what I mean? How many times can you reinvent rock and roll? Yeah. And is it your job to do that for everybody again? Right. You know, so, but his shows are so dynamic and exciting,

and those songs, unlike most acts, when you go to Bruce's shows, people do want to hear the new songs. Interesting. They really do. Most, but you know, most acts.

So we found the exception. Yeah, but like, how prevalent are the records? I don't know. I couldn't answer that, but I do know he's very unique as a performer, and his, you know, I mean, the exception. Yeah, but how prevalent are the records? I don't know. I couldn't answer that. But I do know he's very unique as a performer. I mean, the difference, too, with him and other people is he writes songs, and his career is really about a relationship with his audience.

He keeps them in mind, I think, when he writes these songs. He doesn't want to let them down. But it's this really nice line that he writes of pleasing himself but also respecting the relationship he's built with these people for many years. He's not one of the guys who says, or artists in general, who says, I'm doing what I'm doing and I don't care who does or doesn't like it. I think he really respects his audience very much. And he's found a way to make the records he really wants to make.

I mean, it's some kind of sleight of hand trick that he pulled. Well, he's authentic, right? It's the thing that's always come through about Bruce Springsteen. He's very authentic. Everything he does, the way he talks about things, it's very thoughtful. You can tell he's being genuine. He's really thinking about what he's saying. Me too.

Yeah, you too, man. As long as you're buying what we're selling and think it's real you too man you too he's uh when was the last time bruce put out an album he had western uh no he has his most recent one um uh for you what's it called a letter to you is that right am i saying it right yeah yeah yeah how long ago was that? October 2020. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was during the pandemic, I think.

Yeah. Oh, wow. I haven't heard it. And it was great. I'm sure it's great. It's great. It's always great. Yeah.

No, he's one of the most prolific guys ever in terms of high quality stuff. Yeah. He's got a song called There's a Ghost. It's as good as any song he's written. Really? Yeah. He has like the very few people that don't, aren't able to, that can keep that level of quality high.

Most people have a shitty record. They just do. Yeah. Expect it. Right. Plan on it. Nobody gets out for free. I mean, you can't be inspired every year.

You just can't be. You can't be your best every year. Now, having this gap of nine years, it's been about nine years since your last album? yeah but you know i was done i we could have had it out before the shutdown we waited right and so would have been eight years but this uh during this gap was was it always in the back of your mind to put something else out or did you have to accumulate enough ideas where you felt like you could well you're always you're always accumulating always but you know like i said we record 2012 i tour every summer

minus these times where you just can't right now um so i'll be there's a point like when you're starting out that you just feel like if you're not touring then you better be writing and if you know once you're done writing you better be making that record. And you can get off that ride for a minute, which is... But I never made records that speedily. I was never the... I mean, in the 1960s, people made two records a year. We don't do that anymore. Typically, it's like a record every maybe three years.

But I've had longer gaps than that. Two records a year seems insane. It's totally insane. And they were great. You know? Look at the Beatles, their whole career is eight years. Yeah. I know, isn't that crazy? It took me nine to get this record out.

Wow. So isn't that crazy? But nobody should beat themselves up for that. There's something in the air. It was a totally different thing. It does not relate. No one can look at that model and think, should we be doing that too? You're not the Beatles for starters and take some time you'll you know don't give me every song you wrote this

year either by the way just pick your 10 favorite ones I don't need 18 songs pick the 10 best ones what do you listen to when you're when you I mean do you have a range of kind of music that you listen to do you have like particular genres that you enjoy only no i like that i mean like anybody would say the best of any genre um i like songs the best i don't i mean i and i feel that same way when i was younger i don't really i we were talking earlier about the lifestyle music i never really saw that anybody who had a great song i it didn't bother me what kind of jacket they were wearing what shit they put in their hair i just i like the song and i still

like music that has the best songs that's what moves me the most is not the it's not the beats it's not the vibes not the stage diving it's none of the peripheral stuff that can be pretty cool it's really just i like good songs and you like them in all genres i think so do you listen to country yeah yeah yeah i mean what are you into well i'm you say country yeah that's a very broad term now it is now it doesn't you know i don't know what it is now when you say country to me i still think of george jones and johnny cash right so the newer stuff i'm not saying it is or isn't country but it's just i don't identify so much i don't think most people do well it's kind of corporate country'm not saying it is or isn't country, but it's just I don't identify so much. I don't think most people do.

Well, it's kind of corporate country, a lot of it is. It is. It's just continuing to sell you what you already like. Right. They found a formula and they just keep hammering that. Most businesses do that anyway. They just keep selling you what they know you already like. Why mix it up? Right.

But it's interesting. I did hear a couple songs just maybe yesterday flying out here. I came across just two different times countries. And it was interesting that the two songs I heard seemed so typical of a lot of it, which is no one's really singing about themselves. They're singing to you, the listener, telling you. They're talking about your life. You've got very wealthy people talking about all they need is a pickup truck and a shack and you.

And everything's awesome. It's like, well, I don't think you're living in a shack, and I don't think you probably, your pickup truck's probably pretty tricked out. It's kind of telling you about your life, and maybe that's what they like about it. Maybe there is something that is similar to country music that's always done that, but I'd rather have, you know,

Merle Haggard or Carter Family or any of those, they do stuff, you know, I'm not the first one to, it's not my revelation, it's pop music, you know, I'd rather have Merle Haggard or Carter Family or any of those. I'm not the first one. It's not my revelation. It's pop music. You can't just put a fiddle on it and call it country. There's guys out there like Jason Isbell and Sturgill Simpson. There's people that are doing... There's country elements to those things.

That's almost more like Tom Petty rock. Some of it. Actually, Tom Petty's music, that world bit his music pretty good. things yeah yeah there's that that's almost more like tom petty rock some you know and actually tom petty's music like they that world bit that his music pretty good and they turned that into like almost i mean like particularly his wildflowers record like that is a that's like a model for new country music which i don't think he had any say in one way or the other that is true if you really think about a lot of his music. It is kind of almost like American Girl. That's kind of almost a country song. Yeah, it's no mystery that they identify and they've kind of shortened that gap.

They've closed in the distance because it's rock, essentially. And then the Eagles, are they country? They're not country music either, but there's country elements. Yeah. So I say whatever. I have no problem with any of it. You like it, you like it. I just mentioned it because you asked me, do I like country music?

So it's just, it's important to solidify what is the different kinds of country music. Yeah, a lot of these genres are, they're kind of open-ended, right? Yeah, well, country and rock. Country and rock certainly is very blurred. I mean, but there's lots of different kinds of rock. So yeah, it's easier to like,

put those two pretty close together. But do you take time to just sit down and listen to music? Or do you just listen to music? Do you consume music while you're doing other things? Yeah, unfortunately, like most people do, even if you thought you were hanging on to that thing for long, over time it's just slipped away. You just showed us Henry Rollins' studio.

Like, yeah, if I had that studio, that situation, and I had it had it quite yeah i go in there and just shut the door and listen to music yeah and and i can't shed any new light on that experience with music how it is different with vinyl just you know that you it is something about it that's different and we all know what that is you don't know needs to hear me say what the difference is yeah um but i don't know i don't have a situation but you you know you don't do that anymore when you get older as much anyhow and like your records cost a lot yeah you know i used to buy records we did when you you liked one song and you might like the rest if you bought it for 6.99 it sucked you just didn't care i'm not gonna sorry i think your band's

pretty cool but i'm not spending 28 to help yet like it's a lot you go you're gonna come home with four records for over like150, $125 or something. It's just, it doesn't matter how much money you have, I just don't think the format's worth it. It's hard, it's difficult. Because you can just get it in a digital format and it basically is the same thing. Unless you have that connection to the experience

of putting on a turntable, that's worth the money. Right. Because that's an admission to a theme park almost. You know what I mean? You're getting something out of that. And bands, they do, when they make vinyl, they really care a lot now. We really, we do, we're gonna honor whoever's gonna bother

to spend money on these things. We'll give them everything you got. Think about it, work hard and make this something special for whoever does decide that they want it. And appreciate that instead of streaming it, they're gonna go have the experience of buying a piece of vinyl part of the process of Tarantino writing he was explaining was that he goes into his record room he has a record room in his house he goes in there and just locks himself in there and starts playing songs and playing actual physical records

and then through that he like gets inspiration for scenes and inspiration for moments and characters. It means something to a lot of people to put that needle down on that record. Well the investment's different, obviously. But it goes deeper than that. You're talking about vinyl. Vinyl had very important parts of that vinyl. There was the first album,

first song you're gonna to start your record with, and then there was how are you going to close out side one, right? Then how are you going to open side two? And then what's the last song on the record? There's like four out of ten spots that were really crucial. It wasn't just a collection of like your best songs first, like CDs. When we started sequencing for CDs, it was just typically like your best song first,

your shittiest song goes last because that's all anybody's going to listen to it in one straight order. They're probably going to leave the room within three songs. So they may not even get to the end of the CD. Do they still have? Sorry, go ahead. No, records you can live with one side or the other.

It's not just that they sound better. And I still make records recordings with that in mind because we used to make records. When that in mind because you know we used to make records when you listen to records your favorite records sometimes there's purposely a shitty song on the record to just because you can't have 10 singles on a record i mean thriller maybe but you're not really there was an arc to it and sometimes you'd throw in a waltz to kind of clear the palette for the next song. You'd set up the next one with something here. It was like a show.

You know what I mean? Right, hills and valleys. Yeah, and that's why a lot of, like when they called deep cuts or something on records. Yeah. A deep cut, to me when I was younger, meant like, that's for me. Like that's gonna be, it's not gonna be a hit song.

That's gonna be something that the artist worked really hard on, and it's not gonna be a hit. That's gonna be for me. Now a deep cut means nobody heard your song, nobody cares. Do they still have those record players where you stack records on top of each other and they can play? That was a good for your records.

Terrible, right? That's a good for your records. That was a thing that they did for a while though, right? Yeah, but you also know how when your needle went to the end of the record and then picked up and came back, that was a sign of like, you don't have a good turntable. Oh really? Yeah.

I didn't know that too long ago so the turntable's not the needle's not supposed to do anything other than play yeah and it just goes to the end and it's just gonna sit there and make that skipping noise and then you pick it up yeah so if it does it for you piece of shit probably cause I remember being a kid at parties

and they would stack records on these things and like this is the wildest shit ever. You don't even have to touch it. It'll just keep playing a new record. Yeah. But then they're sitting on top of each other, chewing each other up.

Yeah, it was shitty vinyl too, though. The vinyl you were buying as a kid was garbage. Oh, it's a different vinyl? Oh, yeah. The real good vinyl, you know, was, I think that ended like maybe mid-60s, 70s. Take your records when you were a kid and they go like this.

You could like fan yourself and like, you know, you could make a noise. That's not great vinyl. Oh, what's it like? It's like shaking a book. Oh, so it's stiff. Yeah, it's strong. It's just more gram vinyl.

It's just better. But it wasn't a problem listening to those records when we were kids. I had no problem with it. They sounded great. No, they did. But there was also this experience that people don't get today where you open up that album.

And a lot of them, especially Double, like Kiss Alive 2, or Kiss Double Platinum, like, ooh. You open it up, and it's like it was a book. It was like there was images in there. There was pictures of them on tour. There was all kinds of stuff that would draw you into the band. Long gone. Long gone.

But, you know, I don't hold a torch for it. No? I mean, you miss it. That's nostalgia. But, you know, I don't like being in conversation with people who just dislike how it is now. Right. Whatever, man. Let's move on

there's other stuff i mean what are you gonna do yeah for sure just gonna be that unhappy guy just sitting around talking about things were better when you were a kid you're right they probably were but like nobody cares move on let's go because what's the alternative is you don't do anything you don't buy anything anymore you don't listen to they don't enjoy anything right and there's still plenty to enjoy it's just we're getting it in a different way. Yeah. But there is more of it. And you're a cliche, by the way. Every generation said the same thing.

Of course, right? You know. Yeah. Every generation's saying that the good old days were better. Yeah. And they're going to do that about this generation because, oh, before you fuckers with your holograms, we used to actually watch music videos. Now you're inside of them.

Have you seen a hologram show? I have not I have not I mean like well I'm thinking about really I should have said augmented reality more than holograms I'm back at the you know

the tent where there's 30,000 people jumping up and down to a guy with a laptop I'm still trying to figure that one out so the hologram you need to get more ecstasy maybe I don't know that's all it is yeah if you go to those shows those shows if you need to get more ecstasy maybe I don't know that's all it is

yeah if you go to those shows those shows if you go to an electronic music show there's no amount of ecstasy there's some people that love to dance

and that's why they're doing that and some people just love to be out and partying but a lot of those fucking people are tripping balls oh I would say I would say 100% of them

yeah I mean that's that's what it is not a lot of people sit around listening to reggae music if they're not high either that's true that's okay interesting thing about is not a lot of people sit around listening to reggae music if they're not high either that's true but there's

that's okay interesting thing about these electronic music concerts is that that's one of the things that revitalized Vegas is because people

could go to these electronic music concerts and this guy was just pressing play on a laptop and doing this shit and everybody was going crazy

it helps Milli Vanilli helps everybody like that guy like what a life those guys had until they got busted. Isn't that funny to you, though?

This is okay. Hit the button. This guy makes $50 million a year being a DJ hitting the space bar. And then Milli Vanilli, they danced. They worked their ass off. They tried. You bought a real record. There were real people singing on that record. It wasn't them, but they humiliated those guys.

Okay, they got caught but like now i mean i watched a little bit like the fourth of july stuff like nobody was singing or playing right nobody and they're all lip-syncing nobody cares anymore and we shouldn't care technically it's too big of a feat to pull that off at times like superbowl no one's saying no one's ever gonna sing this is too big too many things can go wrong but go back for a minute and think about how everybody, minds were blown and they were angry, burning Milli Vanilli records. Because they found out that those were not the two guys who sang on the record.

But you know what? Somebody did sing on the record. You were buying a record that people wrote and sang. Whereas today, you're often not buying anybody's anything. And you're okay with that. I wonder what happened to those dudes. Well, one of them, I believe killed himself. Oh Yeah, no, it was it was I found it really sad and I found the irony totally crazy that like

You still bought the record you liked it and somebody was singing on it Yeah, okay you feel a little fooled that it wasn't them but like should these guys be like sent out to pasture for their whole lives to be humiliated because You still got something that was pretty good that you liked. I feel like one of them put out an album where he did sing. They did.

They went out. Yes, I know a lot of stuff you might be surprised. I think they did go out, and they wanted to dance, and they wanted to sing. They had very heavy accents. Oh. And they learned to sing, and they tried. And I don't think it was even possible that they could turn that thing around.

Right. And they had these accents that were really heavy, but it's a terrible story. Well, it used to be a thing if you got caught lip syncing at a concert, people were pissed off. But now they don't give a fuck anymore. No. It's a lot of what happens. And then you put, unfortunately, the tables have turned where bands have to tell you, you know, we play live.

We don't use tapes. It's like that's the deep, you know, you have to defend that. You want people to know that we're not doing that, you know? Yeah. But, you know, it has a, a lot of bands do that. And, you know, whatever moves you, you should do. But remember, when people do that, when they play with tapes on it, they're restricted by these tapes.

So they can't go off the script at all. And imagine yourself as a comedian. What if you just had to do that? You could with tapes on it they're restricted by these tapes so they can't go off the script at all and imagine yourself as a comedian what if you just had to do that you could not go off script right which is when you play with tapes i'm sorry when you go see you know you know deaf leopard they do not use tapes you know those stacked vocals you hear on those famous records they they they're you know not young men and they go out there and they insist on from what i understand insist on it'd be so easy to have just fly in those walls of background vocals. But from the time they came up and from their integrity,

they seem to refuse to do that. But they're alone in doing that. Really? Most bands do. No, I'm not gonna, I mean, I just watched this 4th of July thing and it was just like, you got like four people playing guitars

and I'm hearing like a million sounds that just like there's nobody here and i'm not surprised but then my mind just goes back to this was so all like 20 years ago this was so insulting and like you yeah you want to destroy these bands for how dare you the only justification that i've ever heard for using the lip sync is some artists do a lot of physical shit on stage where they're like dancing and jumping around and that's the first time that's right away you can tell in those award shows when people have this big seat the dance thing by the you know by the second chorus by the second verse if they're not huffing and puffing yeah you know there you go right yeah but you know people used to you know it was limited before limited before. You had to minimize your dance.

You had to maximize and minimize your dance routine to what you could sing. People have been dancing and singing for a long time. It's not a new thing. Right. So, you know, Tina Turner. Right. You know. James Brown.

They had to, like, they had to work together with your singing and your dancing. And you had to know, well, if I do that stuff that stuff I'm probably gonna be winded and can't sing. So you had to work balance. Now it's just like, don't worry about the singing. We got that, we got the record. Let's get a good dance routine together. But if someone does sing and dance together, the impact of watching them pull it off,

like James Brown when he was in Zaire, opening up for the Muhammad Ali fight, holy shit, that video is one of the most iconic videos of a person performing ever. Yeah, Pink does that. She flies around upside down and sings. And when you see that, you can see things next, you can feel it, and it's moving.

That's what separates some people from other people. If you can't sing and dance, then just pick one or the other, but don't pretend you can do both, because some people can. And she really does hang from those fucking things, and she fell once and really fucked herself up. But, I mean, you've got a superior voice,

and you've got somebody who really can trapeze-style maneuvers, you know? It's just interesting when you just think about how people were so punished 20 years ago, when you find out there was one little tambourine in the background that wasn't live and real, people just felt like you fooled them and they were pissed and and you might still feel like that and i might because you were around them but if you're young today you wouldn't know the difference you're not expecting the act to just give you

what they're able to do what happened i don't know i mean at some point they just just let it slip out just let it go you know like at some point they just let it slip out, just let it go. You know, like at some point everyone just collectively thought like, I don't care. They accepted some fakeness. Yeah. Yeah. But it is showbiz. Yeah.

You know, it's not surprising. And there are parts of it where it's technically just not possible. Have you been paying attention to this Britney Spears conservatorship thing? I know of it. I don't know. it's very bizarre i just started paying attention to it uh this past weekend because uh a bunch of artists started hashtag free britney and i was like okay what is what what's the story here and apparently her father has a conservatorship over her where she's not even allowed to get pregnant.

Like she can't take her IUD out, allegedly. I don't know. I want to make sure this is true. Allegedly. I've heard that and I've also heard it's not true. I don't know. Well, I hope it's not true. But the other thing is that the parent-

What? I think she has a partner. I don't think- I think you should back off that one. She has a partner? I'm sorry. back off that one. She has a partner? I'm sorry. Wait. Did I lose?

I just lost. Did you lose me? No, I didn't lose you at all. I hear you. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. I don't know much about that.

I know what it means, but I don't know why she can't get out of it. I don't understand it because the judge just denied her to be free of this conservatorship. Her father has control over her finances and her father is in control of her career, but she's 36 years old. Yeah, I don't need a lot more information. How much time has to go by before you can prove that she can take care of yourself, I don't know.

She's clearly... How long has it been? She's clearly loony, but there's a lot of male artists that are loony too. Like, they're not in control by their father. Like, just because you're loony doesn't mean, I mean, we have a long history of loony people. We can make a list right now of some loony guys out there who like, they probably could use it. But yeah, I mean, come on.

Loony, loony's got nothing. Loony's great. We love loony. You know? The idea is that it's to protect her. This is the idea. But yeah, I mean come on Looney Looney's got nothing then loonies right we love right You know the idea is that it's to protect her This is the idea is that if you don't have some sort of control over her life. She'll go nuts Which is like isn't that part of being a person like yeah, that's yeah, that's growing up, right? How does a grown adult have a conservatorship over someone who, obviously, she's not incapacitated. She's performing on a regular basis.

How is she going to hurt herself or lose money? I guess she's just going to go nutty and spend all her money, but it's her fucking money. Isn't it? Yeah, if you're a band and you want to go to Vegas and gamble all your money away, you're 100% allowed to do that. You talk to MC Hammer? Yeah.

There's a lot of guys. Mike Tyson, that's your prerogative. Yeah. You make a dollar, it's your prerogative. Yeah. You make a dollar, it's your prerogative to blow it. Yeah, that's why I don't understand this. If it's physically going to hurt yourself, that's a different story, of course. Right. I haven't heard that.

But she could do that. Yeah, you could do that any time. Of course. Yeah, this has something to do with her finances. It has something to do with control over her life. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know enough to know that it sounds really crazy. And I know it was just, she just recently tried to end it and it was denied.

Well, the judge denied it, which is crazy. I don't know what case you'd have to prove about somebody to have them stay in that situation. Right. I mean, if you can talk and you can eat and you can go on stage and kick ass like she does, she still performs on a regular basis. I don't know. It seems to me like if she wants to go throw all her money off a cliff tomorrow, she should be allowed to do that. Right.

That's what's weird. Who gets to say she can't do that? I've never heard of a situation like this before. No. Well, that's a money-making machine, right? That's the problem. Well, that's at least whatever is, it begins with that. She hasn't performed since January of 2019.

Just for... Yeah. Well, she just is in Vegas now. Her manager's resigning because she's quitting. I saw that today. She's retiring. She's retiring because she can't get out of the conservatorship? Well, probably because of that, but yeah, she's just done with everything, I guess.

She's been trying to get out of it for a long time, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to read through it to see if there's anything that makes sense that we haven't said, but I can't find anything that makes sense. So this is just pre-COVID, just a couple months before the pandemic hit and everything locked down. No, a year before. 2019, January of 2019. Okay.

Yeah, so that full year, right. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know much about that but nobody nobody ever retires anyway nah well not if they're

having a good time how many rock stars you know what's a great story is that searching for sugar man story what's that guy's name Rodriguez yeah Rodriguez

yeah that's interesting what if it was just made up for Sugar Man story. What's that guy's name? Rodriguez? Yeah, Rodriguez. Yeah. That's interesting. What if it was just made up? It'd be crazy if it was. What are you saying? I mean, I don't know. What are you saying? I was thinking about that movie.

Well, I have a friend from South Africa who told me he was huge over there. That would be the way you'd know. Otherwise, plenty of people, it could have been, it was this close to being maybe Spinal Tap. I saw Spinal Tap when it came out and I fell asleep because I didn't get it.

I thought these guys were assholes. So maybe it was that good. No offense to the artist, because I learned about him from that documentary, but it did occur to me at some point, like, wait a minute. How would I know? Because we never heard of him here. But the stories that were most compelling is people in South Africa. He was like Van Morrison to them.

Yes. That's interesting. I knew a guy from South Africa who told me when he was a kid, they had heard all these crazy rumors about him, that he died in a car accident, that he had, you know, all the, committed suicide,

this conflicting story, but he was a huge hit over there. Well, that's, you know, that's interesting. You can't do that now. No. If you're big anywhere, you're big all over.

Yes. Because it's just a universal radio system, which is streaming, and we're all listening to the same thing. You can't do that now. No. If you're big anywhere, you're big all over. Yes. Because it's just a universal radio system, which is streaming and we're all listening to the same thing. But isn't that amazing? You could be like that size of an artist in South Africa, right? It was South Africa. And then the rest of the world really hasn't heard you. Not only has the rest of the world not heard of you,

but you don't know you're a big artist in South Africa. Exactly. You're painting houses he was a construction worker yeah not knowing that like living in poverty yeah

and then he goes over there and performs in front of sold out arenas yeah you saw the documentary right yeah it's a wild documentary man there's a lot of us

sitting around wondering I wonder how I would do in South Africa maybe I don't know yeah maybe no one's telling me maybe there's a huge thing on it but today no you you know today well that's the thing right there's always some artists that do really well overseas like there's a guy named arj barker who is one of the biggest

stand-up comics in all of australia he's fucking huge in australia sells out theaters multiple nights in a row but in america he's just regular comic. But in Australia, he's like their top dog. It's just weird. Yeah, I'm surprised just because the internet connects everybody. But maybe he's there playing his act more there physically. Well, he is, definitely. But it's just for whatever reason, he caught fire over there. And this Rodriguez.

But the live experience has a lot to do with it. You can still have a large presence in America if you don't go to Europe as an act, as a band and put that time in. The songs being streamed, that's not going to be enough

to translate to a show. If that's the case, why did Rodriguez take off in South Africa when he'd never been there? Well, that's a fluke. Yeah. But it can happen.

It did happen. Yeah. You know. You know he gave all his money away? Talk about Looney, right? You're going back to yeah he likes being uh they should have locked him up right you can't do that give him a concert or yeah his kids locked him up yeah keep singing how dare you give away your own money that album is good though man i bought the it is

what it is good but you know what you know spinal tap was good too was it that's what made it so believable and good was right the songs were is good. But you know what? Spinal Tap was good too. Was it? That's what made it so believable and good was the songs were really good. So when you hear the story about Rodriguez and you hear the songs, I do believe that. You seem incredulous. No, but I hear the songs and I'm like, no, these are good. I do believe the story because the songs are good.

That makes it believable. Yeah. But it's just so crazy to think that this guy lived his whole life not knowing that he was a gigantic star on another continent well if i remember correctly the story itself wasn't that unique and just in terms of getting that record deal getting your songs in the late 60s wherever he was starting and like that dream doesn't work for most people and then you go back to your life and not knowing quietly over here something just took off yeah it's kind of wild and if they hadn't

made the documentary it would have been a great movie with a script also because this parallel universe you're giant and you would never know yeah you know it's just yeah if it was a movie it would be hard to buy if it was just a fiction yeah it would be hard to buy but But as a documentary, it made me cry. No, it was good. It was good. And that did get the music documentary ball rolling, that film. And then I guess the streaming thing, everybody's,

there's a lot of people. I mean, I haven't seen it. I don't think it's out. There's Sparks. They have a documentary. And that's what that medium is really good for because a lot of people are going to learn about Sparks now that didn't know much about them because I've seen the trailers.

Yeah, Sparks, they were the two brothers, male brothers. Do you know who that is? It's mostly the 70s, 80s, cult kind of band. Oh, yeah? Two brothers, yeah. You'll recognize them. Yeah, the Sparks. You'll recognize it as soon as you bring up a picture. You'll be like, oh, I know who that is. Oh, yeah. You'll recognize them. Yeah, the Sparks. You'll recognize it as soon as you bring up a picture.

You'll be like, I know who that is. Oh, okay. But anyway, it's going to work. I have no idea who those guys are. Jamie? See, the one in the middle left. You look familiar to me, but I don't know where. That one in this side, middle left, that right there,

that's more the typical image that you might recall. Well, they were kind of art house. There was nowhere to put them. But they made a documentary, and I think what I've seen, That right there, that's more the typical image that you might recall. Well, they were kind of art house. There was nowhere to put them. But they made a documentary, and I think what I've seen in the trailer looks like it's going to be good. But, boy, a lot of patience, and then they will gain a much larger, I think, audience from it. Because that's how people hear their music and see they learn things now

from, obviously, television. They could never really be on the radio so this will bring new audience there's a documentary about Leonard Skinner that is seeing that fucking phenomenal yeah there's a couple which which one is it I don't know which one I saw I didn't know I watched a couple I figure which channel is there's one of those streaming channels that has tons of documentaries they're just not good. Oh, was it that? Because you've got to get the rights to the music. You've got to get real interviews.

And if it's just, they have bands who just kind of sound like Skinner playing in the background, that doesn't work. Oh, they do that all the time. It's expensive. Because they don't have the rights to the music? That's terrible.

And they get the brother of a guitar tech. He's in it. It's not really... Oh, no. But the one you're talking about, their history is amazing. It's incredible. I mean, what about the album cover itself? There in it. Like it's not really, Oh no. But the one you're talking about, no, that's, that's their history is amazing. It's incredible. I mean,

what about the album cover itself? There it is. If I leave here tomorrow, it's fucking phenomenal. That's so, yeah, that's the one from 2018. It's so good.

It's so good. It's like, they're the greatest fucking thing that ever came out of Florida by a long shot. Tom Petty. That's true too. Damn it. Damn it. That's right.

I forgot. Actually, both came from fucking Florida. Both from Gainesville. Really? I used to live there. Lived in Gainesville for a little bit. I teach you about your hometown heroes.

I was only there for three years. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, that band, Leonard Skinner to this day, they still have some songs where you just go, I forgot about Curtis Blow. Curtis Low, that song, Sing Me a Song, Curtis Low. People forget about that song. Well, they have their staples.

Yeah, well, their history is amazing. I was facing from Blackfoot, the guitar player who's back in the group right now. Can we bring that up real quick uh blackfoot that band he's one of the original he was like there's nobody left in the group i think they retired maybe they're coming back yeah yeah ricky medlock he was like the original do you know the story that it was probably in that in that film and he was the original guitar player then he's then he comes back yeah he left and then after the crashed. But he's not a part of the lineup that made those records

that people are really aware of. Yeah, I mean, look at this. Only Gary Rosington left. I mean, from the original lineup, we should say. Some guys survived the plane crash, right? Yeah, I think it was four people who died. Ed King just passed. He wrote, I believe, Sweet Home Alabama.

That was his riff, Ed King. He was only in it for a minute. They didn't get along. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a long-history band. That documentary was good, just learning. By the time that band was really popular,

people were already come and gone. It already evolved from different members. That's got to be one of the hardest things about a band is getting all the personalities to sync up and get along with each other while you're touring, while you're making albums, while you're putting music together. That's not easy.

I mean, and your chances of really sustaining that for very long or not very good because generally bands are put together when your kids you know it's kind of a young person's dream being a rock band at 21 but you don't really have any experience you don't have any needs yet other than you know rent or something so to be together by the time you guys are not 41 or 42 20 years later like that's not really a normal like like, arc. It's hard. It's hard. And, you know, the things that bind you when you're starting,

like, you don't even know who you are yet. Music is really, that's what's binding you right now. But over the next couple years, you're just gonna start going like, you can't help it. You know, and people are gonna, so it usually doesn't work.

The best ones, you know, they can, that's why people don't start great groups in their 40s or 30s. Because you know too much i mean what great group really you can do side projects but not the all for one one for all thing in your 30s because you all know too much now you know that this isn't this is model's not going to really work right you know but when you're young kids and you might have wives yeah it's naturally looking out for your own self a little bit more but when you're starting out like you know the music is the most important thing to you, and reality hasn't really shaped anybody yet.

In that way, it's very similar to comedy that when you're starting out, all you want to do is just go out there and do it. And you just want to make it. You want to somehow or another make a living. You want to somehow or another be able to figure out how to to this is my job i i tell jokes or i sing songs like how can i do this is this possible it seems impossible and your overhead is very low yeah right yeah you don't need much right you don't need much and you're just you're running and that's how that's it's very similar to how bands start you know but then how many guys from your early days are you with today

zero yeah wow good for you yeah well you know somebody i met had the same conversation a couple years ago with the producer who just i was making one of the i've made solo records also and he asked uh i think i had to go do shows with my band and he's like you still have the band and i said yeah i do in the summertime we do go and do some shows and he kind of I think I had to go do shows with my band. And he was like, you still have the band? And I said, yeah, in the summertime we do go and do some shows. And he kind of was stumped. He goes, bands are for kids. He didn't mean for kids to come to the show. He meant being in a band.

You still want to be in a band? You didn't grow out of that yet? Because it really is for kids. It's a sustained immaturity level that just travels across the country and has two hours a night that they get you know a lot of affection and it's not really a normal course of life really so it's gonna it hits a wall at some point yeah but sometimes when artists are in a band and then they leave to do a solo project it's just never the same they're not the same thing without the band no mine was never that

kind of band there are bands like what you're talking about you know nobody wants to see the edge leave you too it just won't be you too without them right okay but you did put up with a couple of changes in the rolling stones you know brian jones died or he let he was fired and then um mctaylor came in and they get ron wood i mean some bands you know a little if we do it like a little bit at a time it's like you know don't steal but you know don't steal all the money at once do it like a little bit at a time, it's like, you know, don't steal all the money at once. Just kind of take a dollar at a time. No one's going to notice.

That might work. But those groups, you know, they're far and few between. The ones that really matter, you take one person out, it doesn't work. There's not that many, really. Really, like, you can do it. It's not that hard to do. And then he has some, like you mentioned Led Zeppelin. They refuse to ever go on without John Bonhamham understanding that there is no led zeppelin

without him but you know the who lost kenny they lost uh keith moon and they put in kenny jones i like that record it wasn't the same you know you can't replace uh keith moon but kenny jones is pretty good too i like that record you know so it can work You can do both. I mean, but there are some groups, undoubtedly, you take one person out, it's just never the same. Yeah, with Kiss, it's got to be Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley. With The Stones, it's got to be Keith Richards and Mick Jagger. Yeah, well, and now you've had Ron Wood for, what, 45 years? I don't know.

And Charlie Watts of course but you've seen there's like 40 people on that stage yeah there's a lot of people up there right yeah so

but you know what used to work doesn't work you know you can't like with Zeppelin we're around I'd like to think they wouldn't have

you know auxiliary members but you know if you have a long career, like the Stones, and you've got your disco records from the 70s, and you've got a lot of percussion, yeah. People kind of want that full show,

as long as those, you know, the core people are up there. Bill Wyman's been gone. Do you know how long he's been gone already? How long? Like 35 years or something. He's been gone forever. Wow.

Yeah. Do you get together with other rock stars and just have a conversation about the business? Well, you're a rock star. I'm a comedian. It's the same thing, isn't it? Sort of. Something.

You're funnier than most guys in bands. I hope so. Yeah. You know what's nice about you? You don't play guitar better than me. Ah, that's nice. That's refreshing for me. Well, yeah, I mean, I have friends who are musicians.

But I mean, I feel like it's one of the things about comedy is we all get together and we talk about the art form a lot. It's like one of the beautiful things about podcasts is we've had so many conversations with comics where we talk about how you do it, what's the process. Do you guys do that? Do you get together with other musicians yeah we do but there's a certain amount of it that you can have a dialogue about and then there's a certain amount of it that none of us know what the hell we're doing yeah you're just going by feel well yeah and you just you know you know if anybody ever asked me like well any advice on how to write songs like no i don't know do you have inspiration that comes

out of nowhere or do you have specific times where you sit down and write your best ideas come out of nowhere when you're not ready for it that's the stuff that's going to be your song but the rest of it you got to go home you gotta go to work you know what i mean like you might have an idea for a bit oh that's funny but you just heard something came to you but now you can already immediately you're aware of how much work it's going to take to surround this thing and make it your bit. And that's what songs are like. You get this idea and this thrill of like,

that could be a great song. But the rest of it's not going to just fall on your head. The rest of it, you got to go home and now you got to put it all together and make it become something. But do you ever just sit down and try to have a writing session with just a blank piece of paper? Yeah, it's the worst.

Well, right, if I were just like, hey, listen, you've got that flight in two hours, here's some paper, you need some jokes. Like it's hard, isn't it? It's forced, it's difficult. I can do that and I have to do this sometimes. But the stuff that I've, it's like, it's forced, it's difficult. I can do that and I have to do this sometimes. But the stuff that I've, that's lasted longer for me

or been more enjoyed, we'd say, is the stuff that was not like that. I used to hear that when I was younger, like Keith Richard would say that he doesn't write songs,

he's an antenna. And I was just like, what are you talking about? Like, no, I don't think, or some people receive them like as gifts,

like maybe God, I don't know. I don't think God's writing songs for anybody in a pop band anytime soon. Like, I don't think that's how it receive them like as gifts, like maybe God, I don't know. I don't think God's writing songs for anybody in a pop band anytime soon. Like, I don't think that's how it works. I had more of a cynical idea about it, but I do kind of get the receptor antenna bit now a little bit more. Yeah.

Because that part of your brain that you're, you know, automatic writing is, have you heard of that? Like you have to be a certain state to do it. And I've done it when I didn't expect it. It's crazy that you actually just shut down. You could be so inside that these things will come out, you'll write them down, and they literally will make you enter some kind of zombie phase,

and it happened. It's real. It's a real thing. I believe it. I'd heard about it for a long time, and then it happened to me. The best songs are kind of like that. If you're open, you kind of leave your brain clear.

Like these ideas will come to you and they're gonna come to only you probably. So that in itself makes it a unique idea. And then hopefully you've got some level of ability and skill set to put that together in a song that you or yourself or someone else might wanna listen to for three and a half minutes. Like they're coming out of something

that's not your conscious mind. They're coming out of some form. Exactly. Well those ideas. Connecting these thoughts. Maybe the germ, the idea. I mean most songwriters you talk to will tell you the same thing.

When you have to sit down and really focus on it, like those are, you can do that. We all have to at times. But the better ones are the ones you just can't explain why you got that. But don't over intellectualize it that it's a gift from anybody. It's not.

It's just a song. That's all it is. Don't make a big deal out of it. You're not special. Let's leave it with that. Let's end with that. Don't make a big deal out of it. You're not special.

Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Likewise. Real quick before I go, is this a Stormtrooper? It's a lighter. I know, but is this supposed to be a Stormtrooper? It could be.

Has no one else mentioned that before? No, but I thought it does definitely Stormtrooper-esque. Okay. I think that new Lamborghini, is it a Lamborghini that has the SUV? Yes. That looks like a Stormtrooper, too. It does a little bit. Yeah.

If you get a white and black one. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Do you drive anything crazy like that? No. What do you drive? You seem like maybe like an old Volkswagen type guy or maybe something cool. Like an old BMW or something like that.

No, I have a 67 Firebird. Ooh, now you're talking my lingo. A show car. A show car. Okay. You don't drive it? No. I mean, it's not a jacked up car.

There's no like, you know, there's no like eight ball gear shifting. It's a show no i mean it's not a jacked up car there's no like you know crazy there's no like eight balls gear shifting it's like it's a show car meaning it's all original all original restored yeah and then when i actually want to go places and also go home i have a jeep oh okay there's vintage cars yeah because when you were talking about lamborghinis i'm like there's no way jacob dylan drives a fucking lamborghini you know no no there's i mean a cool car is a cool car. I got no problem with them. I just, more practical than that.

If it moved me, I'd get one. Did you ever get a Rockstar car, something crazy? My 67 Firebird. That's it? That's a Rockstar car, isn't it? It is a Rockstar car. I used to actually, I did, I had another 67 Firebird. You've had more than one?

Well, yeah, I had one 20-something years ago, a red one that I'd, wasn't the best one, and then a couple years ago got another one it's a great fucking car it's cool I mean you know those cars oh fuck yeah

oh my god I'm a collector you know what but that car the Firebird obviously you know you could have the Camaro but isn't the guy

who noticed that the Firebird is the one you want that's the guy because that's like when we drive it if somebody says you know

nice Mustang it's like okay thank you or it, if somebody says, you know, nice Mustang, it's like, okay, thank you. Or they say nice Camaro, right on. And if somebody says nice Firebird, it's like, oh, you're in the know. You know, yeah. It's cool because it just kind of slipped right through those muscle cars, but it's the one. Yeah. Oh, it's a great car. Yeah, it's cool.

It's one of many. It's not the one, though. Which would be yours from that era. I'm talking the muscle cars, not the jacked up ones. Because that's that sweet year right in there, the late 60s. Yeah. The 67 stuff I always liked because they were messing with the future. Everything had a Jetsons vibe.

I have a 1965 Corvette convertible. That's the shit. I like those. I like the early 70s ones, too. Those are great. That's a great shape. It was like 68, I think, they changed over to the third body shape. It might have been 67.

You know what's the one I really like? I wish they made a convertible. Some people have chopped them, but I wouldn't do that. Is the Riviera, like the 65? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a beautiful car. That's a beautiful car. And they did not make a convertible.

No. Well, if they did, it would be so floppy anyway. It wouldn't have any maturity. Yeah, I mean, if you look them up, you'll see one, and you'll think they did, but those are modded. Somebody cut the top off. Yeah, that era of cars was, in a lot of ways, like that era of music. Yeah.

It was beautiful and wild and so different than anything that came before it. Yeah, and you know what I did not know is John DeLorean had a lot to do. They only designed the Firebird. Did he really? Yeah. DeLorean did. Wow. Yeah, you can look that up.

Actually, the coolest car is what he designed. I forget what it was called. Late 60s, and it didn't take off. They did make like maybe six of them, and it looks exactly like a Firebird and a Corvette combined. What's it called? Can we look that up? Because i want you to see that that's if you look up delorean like his first it's like late 60s let's see what we can get on that you should see this car i mean it looks like a fake car

because it's just like how come i never saw that before and why didn't they make that um but then there was, well, this had nothing to do with his ultimate demise, John DeLorean, but if we could find that car, you seen anything? No, no, no. I was looking through an article.

I thought I was going to have it. We didn't. How would you look that up? John DeLorean, 60s. There's the Firebird, but. No, that's. There's the Firebird. Oh, look, that's. There's the Firebird. Oh, look, bottom right.

What's that? This thing? What's that? Oh, what is that? That's it? That's not it. What is that? High output?

What the fuck is that thing? That looks weird. 69 Pontiac Farago. Oh, it's right there, the Banshee. 64 Banshee. Look at that. Whoa. That's not a Corvette?

No. 64 Banshee. Look at that. Whoa. That's not a Corvette? No. 64 Pontiac Banshee. Isn't that cool?

Oh, so it's a concept car. Yeah, I don't think the... Wow. No, but there are like... God, that's so pretty. Isn't it cool? That's beautiful. It actually looks like a Firebird and a Corvette. Is it a metal Corvette looking...

I mean, it's a metal shape. It's not fiberglass, right? I don't know. God, it's so similar to the Corvette. Look, it's real's a metal shape. It's not fiberglass, right? I don't know. God, it's so similar to the Corvette. Look, it's real. There it is. Isn't that cool? Yeah.

It's pretty sweet. Look at how it opens up. And it has kind of like Firebird-esque rear. What is it looking like from the rear? The taillights. Yeah, if you can see those, those are like the Firebird. Right there. Oh, wow.

That's fucking beautiful. Wild that they never made that. Yeah, Joe, you make some money. You should try to track one down. Okay. No. There are a handful. Get the Firebird.

Yeah, but those are, I don't like old cars with old brakes and old engines. Oh, no. I like restobots. Yeah, I'm with you on that. You want like a 54 pickup truck with a laptop under the hood. Yeah, like a RestoBot. You want like a 54 pickup truck with a laptop under the hood. I want something where there's brakes that work and a suspension that turns.

No, I'm with you on that. Look at the back of a Firebird. Beautiful. Yeah. No, I'm with you on that. There's certain things, but we got better at some things. Yeah. Our brakes got better.

Yes, yes. They're still tricky to drive because they're not really designed for it, but there's some companies now that take old cars like that and they do a different chassis. Yeah. So they'll put on like a different frame and a different modern suspension. I mean, I get it, but I'm like, something cool about driving an original one. It is something cool about it. It's a pain in the ass to maintain at times, that's for sure. $750,000.

Woo! Wow. Which was whacked to save. It was was whack to save corvette oh what does that mean it's a corvette killer but they probably they got okay because chevrolet yeah yeah threatened chevrolet with performance potential yeah i mean it looks a little bit too much like a corvette too yeah quite honestly let's not get one let's not jacob thank you very much for being here man i really enjoyed it likewise i. I really appreciate it. And your new album is out.

It is July, what's this, Friday? It's this Friday. So is that the 8th or the 9th? Yes. Today is the 6th. We're recording this on the 6th. Yeah, and I should say that I'm not going to be getting on the bus doing the full summer touring, but we are out there playing in August.

You have a list, though. You do have a list. Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and read this. They wanted me to. They wanted you to? I mean, can you even read that? No. Yeah, I mean, look.

Can you even read that? I can't without glasses. I don't know if I could with glasses. Anyway, we're going to be playing. The record's out this Friday. There you go. Jamie's found it. Oh, I'll have to read all that.

Okay, so you're in Huntington, New York, Lexington, Massachusetts, East Greenwich, Rhode Island, Alexandria, Virginia, Brooklyn, New York, a lot of places. Is there a website? Yeah. It wasn't on one that I could find. How'd you find this? I got sent that in an email. Oh, the email.

Okay. Yeah, we've got a street team. Street team will holler at you, folks. Thank you. All right, buddy. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. Bye, everybody. thank you alright buddy thanks brother appreciate it bye everybody