The Joe Rogan Experience - #1693 - Evan Hafer

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Special Forces veteran turned entrepreneur Evan Hafer is the founder and CEO of Black Rifle Coffee Company, and one of the hosts of the Free Range America podcast.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hello, Evan. Hey, Joe. Good to see you. My friend. Great to see you, buddy. Is that coffee?

It is coffee, but I just grabbed it because it was here. There we go. Cheers. Cheers to booze. Booze to booze. Booze to coffee seems odd. Oh, that's good. Yeah. God, it's great to see you, man. Good to see you. Still Austin. Shout out to booze. Booze to booze. Booze to coffee seems odd. Oh, that's good. God, it's great to see you, man.

Good to see you. Still Austin. Shout out to Still Austin. God, that is good. It is. Good stuff. Made here, I think. I don't know.

Maybe just the name. I really have no idea. So I feel like you're- It's good shit, though. Like wine and a dine-a-me. I got cigars and whiskey. This is going to be a great episode. I can't wait to see what happens after.

Well, when people were attacking you, I got butt hurt. I was like, come on, Evan. Get the fuck out of here. I was like, I got to have you in. It was so weird to see cancel culture come from the right. I was like, I didn't know it worked that way. I didn't know you fucking idiots would do the same shit. Like, what is going on?

It didn't even make sense. It made no sense. It was the weirdest dog pile I've ever watched. You know, I've tried to figure it out, and I haven't really spent a ton of time on it. Because, honestly, I got better shit to do in my life than figure out, like, what anonymous accounts in Twitter are saying what

about me. Uh, but I think, I think there's just such a mistrust with mainstream media and that's bred this, uh, hyper divisive gaslighting on both sides. And I think conservatives at times are also looking for the conspiracy inside the party. So they kind of spin themselves up a little bit. But it was such a strange scenario for me to be in because I think I've been so open for seven years is like who we are, what we do. I haven't really held anything back. So I think it's, it's a combination of things going on. Like people are super pissed off. Like the pandemic has been a complete shit show you got to mistrust in the government you got to mistrust in mainstream media and you're looking for the boogeyman and i mean uh it it's it's crazy to see misinformation

being put out about yourself did it start with the new york times article yeah i so what was the the new york times article was like black rifle Rifle Coffee is the Starbucks of the right. Is that how they described it? Can they be? Oh, can they be the Starbucks of the right. And what was the negative part of that? Did you read the article? I did only because I was really interested to see how they were going to represent the company.

And we didn't, so to rewind, we knew this story was going down months before. So I was down in Florida. I was bass fishing with, uh, Johnny Morris, who owns Bass Pro Shops and, uh, he's a great guy. He's, he's awesome. Yeah. He knows exactly where the great bass are, believe it or not. So we were bass fishing. It was me, my business partner, Matt. And we get a call. Hey, the Times is doing an article on you guys.

Do you guys want to sit for the interview? And we're like, fuck you. No. Right? But then we started thinking about it. And I kind of debated it internally for a while. And I looked at other articles they had done on guys like Dave Portnoy. I think you had had one or at least in the past. And, you know, Don Jr., who is also a friend of mine, I'm like, hey, man, I think if they're going to do this

story, I'll at least give them the opportunity to be objective and then really take a look at the company from the inside. I had no illusions as to what type of position they might take or how they might misrepresent the company. It was at least I'll give them the opportunity. So it's kind of a fool me once type scenario where it's like, hey, man, fool me once. Sure. Not going to get the second time. Um, so we debated it and I was like, I'll come or come on out and I'll take you to a veteran adaptive athlete shoot that we do. And you can talk to 30 plus wounded veterans and Black Rifle Coffee employees, and maybe you'll get a true feeling as to what this company does and what it means. That never pulled through the article, which I thought was a little bit disappointing.

That wasn't in the article at all? There was a quick blurb about it, and it was representing kind of veterans as, you know, they were talking about the shirt that he was wearing and they were talking about somebody that lost their legs in combat, uh, who gives a shit about what shirt they're wearing. Uh, so, but what I, the, the justification was, I feel like I have an ethical responsibility to represent the veteran community and really use what I call earned media to shed light on what I think are the most important issues of the post 9-11 veteran community. So I'm fine with advertising my brand and marketing my brand outside of that. and marketing my brand outside of that. But if we have an opportunity with somebody like the times to talk about what's happening in our peer group,

like what's happening along the lines of the psychological and physical issues with all the veterans that we hire, I have 220 plus veterans at work inside the company. 220 plus veterans at work inside the company. I felt it would be the ethically correct thing for me to do for the company and for the people there to tell their side of the story. I didn't have any illusions as to whether or not they were going to paint the company in a certain light, but I did feel it was really important to do that. I don't think that that pulled through. There's a lot of things that didn't pull through in the

article that I would have loved to have had in the article, but they didn't. I'm not riding it, right? That's the way the journalist views the world. So I was surprised to see all the kickback from, I think, conservatives, because now all of a sudden conservatives are reading and believing the New York Times. So what was the Times take on the company? Well, I think the first piece that I really wouldn't agree with is the tonality. And I know that's a general term, but their perspective on it was that I'm just a lucky guy. I got lucky and I met, you know, Matt Best and Matt Best was lucky in the fact that he was making, uh, viewed or watched viral videos. And he and I just kind of linked up and we got lucky. And then it felt really exploitive in the first part. Um, man, I'll tell you this, it's not been lucky not been lucky uh you know i think luck is what you

capitalize on after you put in a fuck ton of hard work well i've known you guys for years and i knew you guys when the company wasn't nearly as big so i've seen the progress and i've seen the work i've seen your factory yeah i've gone to the the place in Salt Lake where you showed me the the fucking the coffee roaster that you guys fabricated together and told me the story about it and It's not luck. No anybody who says it's luck doesn't know you or is willfully Misrepresenting the truth in order to paint a narrative that they already had established before they started the article bingo They already paint a narrative that they already had established before they started the article. Bingo. They already had a narrative. Uh, they already had a narrative based on their readership

that in the way that they view the world, that this is the way they wanted to view the company. Yeah. And you know, what it doesn't tell you is, uh, and I've, I've kind of put this into light for a lot of people, you know, you know, my past,. I was a Green Beret. I worked for the CIA for a number of years. I've seven and a half years deployed in combat zones between Iraq and Afghanistan. And starting this business and running this business for seven years is the single hardest thing I've ever done. The first two years of the business, I had a thermo rest below my desk where I was only sleeping four, four and a half hours a night to the point where, uh, my doctor was like, dude, you're going to kill yourself. If you don't start sleeping, you're going to die. And you always hear this in our subculture,

which is, you know, we'll sleep when you're dead, you know, toughen up, you know, there's, there's this drum beat through the community at all times, which is, you just got to suck it up. And, uh, I live and breathe that and just suck it up, you know, do what it takes to complete the mission, maintain maniacal focus on your goals, your objectives, and you do not finish until it's mission complete. That's the way I live my life. I'm a very serious character when it comes to the majority of what I do. The first few years of this business were so challenging because I was carrying a rifle in Afghanistan for a living. That's how I put a roof over my head. This is what I was doing for

not only the best interest of, you know, my professional endeavors, but also the strategic interest of the United States. So the first few years of this were brutal. And when you distill it down to luck, it's, it's disingenuous and it takes away all the hard work and the sacrifice that I had to make. Did you explain this to the Times? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I talked a lot about, I had sold everything I owned.

So probably year two, two and a half, I hadn't taken any money out of the company because I am a capitalist at the end of the day. But capital means you're reinvesting the money that you make into the company to grow it. And I think that's a clear differentiation, which is individual wealth and capital are two totally different things, but we can unpack that later. But I sold everything. So I had a couple of different homes. Every gun that I had a couple of different homes. Uh, every gun that I had, every, everything that was not bolted down was out the door and sold. I was running the company specifically on my personal credit cards, just trying to get this thing off the ground to the point where my wife didn't know why we were missing rent payments. You know, I'm coming home looking at my kids thinking there's not only no money in the bank,

but we have $36,000 of credit card debt and there's nothing left to sell. And I think that's the mentality that one, you have to have in order to succeed, which is if you believe in yourself, you have to invest in yourself and you got to take risks and you got to push. I knew that we were going to succeed. I knew it was going to take time. I knew it was going to be challenging. But until you're there, it's a lot different when you're risking the lives, when I say the life and comfort of your family, than it is your life limb and your eyesight of the individual. The amount of stress and anxiety that that takes over years of compounding interest of investing in yourself, that's where the article missed it.

And not only to be that economically challenged for those many years, I've always been able to give back to veteran nonprofits every year. So I didn't take any money out of the company for two years, but I was able to give back over, I think over the first couple of years, like $37,000, $38,000 back to veteran nonprofits because that's my commitment. And when I tell people that it's, I'm a capitalist that concentrates what I like to do with philanthropy back to my peer group. I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand it and they don't get it.

And there's no way for people to get a small snapshot in time and to really kind of comprehend what we're doing on a daily basis and why we're doing it. So when the article comes out and you read their take on it, did you anticipate that there was going to be blowback? No. You just thought like, okay, it's just another hit piece. Was it all negative?

No. Was there anything positive in it? No. I didn't even see it initially as a hit piece. I didn't see it. I just saw it as a list of factual semi-factual and non-factual information so they're trying to portray you in a certain light which wasn't all that negative it really wasn't it was it and it was as objective as he could be i

truly think that it was uh as objective as that guy can be because that's the way he views the world it's not just that, there's also editors. Correct, yeah, there's editors. I have a good friend of mine who used to be a writer over there, and she was explaining to me what it's like to write there, and what it's like when you turn a story in, how they change, she was explaining words that they changed

and phrases that they changed, and things that she was trying to depict that wouldn't let her. Yeah, and I think the first cut that I ran through it, you know, read it. I was like, oh, okay. Like, that's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Okay. I mean, I was fully expecting something just like, you know, totally misrepresenting the company and its values. Right. But I was like, oh, they actually got a few things right. You know, I do have a lot of dedication to the veteran community. You know, they're my family.

They're the people outside of my wife and my children, the company, the post-9-11 GWAC community. That's my family. I think some of that might have pulled through, but obviously uh, obviously I live it. So it's, it's something I feel every day of my life. So I don't expect that to, to be captured within three days. And it's, I think it's misrepresentative to who I am. So I found out about this because I follow all kinds of people on Twitter. I follow a right wing, left wing. I follow all kinds of people on Twitter. I follow right wing, left wing, I follow all kinds of people. And I started seeing some weird shit from right wing people that were saying Black Rifle Coffee

is shitting on their fans and throwing their business away. And I was like, what? Yeah. What is this and where is this coming from? I was interested, but not enough to read the article. It's like, I'm not that interested. But I was like, this is a very weird take. And then you and I talked on the phone about it. And I was like, someone needs to just sit down with you. And who better than me?

Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. Honestly, I think most of my friends that either read the article or know me were like, this is complete bullshit. What, what is this? And how are people pulling this out of this article? And I think the way that they tied in, uh, a couple of the last paragraphs, uh, which was, they were, what I was referring to in the last paragraph specifically was the conversation that's being referenced is the writer and I are discussing racial hostility in America. And last year, the company was recipient of an online attack from racist and anti-Semites. And because of my last name, because my last name is Jewish, they were targeting us for a combination of reasons. And I was referring to that specific or those two specific people, which was, I don't want racists or anti-Semites buying my coffee,

which I thought was like, nobody likes those people. I don't even think they like themselves, to be honest with you, right? Like nobody likes them, which I didn't think was very controversial. But what a lot of the bloggers picked up was that the portrayal that I was referring to my customers in that way. I was like, I wasn't. I was directly referring to only racists and anti-Semites. And specifically the ones that attacked you guys. Correct. Yeah. Specifically those. After that kid, what is his name again? The kid who was wearing the black rifle coffee shirt. Yeah. Kyle Rittenhouse.

Kyle Rittenhouse. Yeah. When he was standing in the kitchen with Ricky Schroeder after he got released, he was wearing a Black Rifle coffee shirt, which is like standard tactical bro outfit. Black Rifle coffee shirt, G-Shock watch. You know what I mean? It's like, and he, this is the kid that showed up at a rally with, what did he have, an AR? Yeah.

And I think, you know, that's been unpacked so many times. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's one of those things that people are debating across the internet 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And what had happened was that NPR and a few other mainstream media sources had reported that we had somehow sponsored him. And I had to clear it because, listen, we weren't sponsoring him. But I wasn't making or weighing in on whether or not he was legal or ethical in his actions. I was just saying, hey, we didn't sponsor him. Because we had a lot of people that were flooding into the inboxes saying, how dare you? And then the other side going right on.

And I was like, one, I don't think it's ethically appropriate to profit from this event in any way. I'm not weighing in and saying whether or not it was legal or justifiable. I'm just saying, I don't think that we need to profit from this event and it's just factual that we were not sponsoring him. That was it. What a portion of the internet decided to say was we had somehow disavowed him by literally stating a fact,

which was we hadn't sponsored him. There's no coming back from some of this in the context of you can't explain yourself in 240 characters or less because nuance is ultimately dead. People have already made a decision. So by just coming out and saying this and trying to correct the record multiple times, you end up just digging in deeper on some of this yeah because it's no one is gonna listen past

the first take the first take is black rifle coffee shits on their fans and then people start barking they're not looking into it the information that people get the overwhelming amount of information that people get on a daily basis almost like stops them from looking into anything deep right you you look you get the surface you get the headline oh and then next thing you know it's that's that's the narrative that's the narrative and and then it's shared yeah and then it's not only shared. And then it's not only shared, but then it's picked up by the, you know, we'll call it mainstream

Twitter influencers as fact. There's nobody's, nobody's checking to look and whether or not that's actually what I said. They're just sharing the material and then people are getting their news from memes,

which is also a problem, right? So if you're getting your news from memes, you have a fucking big problem. But there's just not a chance in hell. One, I would shit on my customers. There's not a chance in hell I would do that. And the other thing is, is I'm a conservative. I'm not self-loathing.

I identify as that guy. So I was purely stating within that entire conversation, it probably lasted 20 minutes, like, hey, there's no room for racists or anti-Semites in my customer base. I'll pay them to leave if they exist. That's what I said. And I stand by those words today. I don't like them.

There's no room for them. There's no justifiable room for racists or anti-Semites, specifically, I think. And if you care about conservatism, if you care about it succeeding, you want to eliminate all the problematic ideas that are associated with it. Correct. That's one that's associated with it.

Racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, all those things are associated with it. I should just tell people, when I went to visit you in Salt Lake years ago, you have a ton of folks you brought over from Afghanistan working at your factory when you saved their lives and brought them over to America when they were in trouble, when they were being chased down because they worked with U.S. troops over there. Well, yeah. And who you're talking about is Waleed Taslim and the other guys that are working specifically in our print and our facility in Salt Lake. Waleed Taslim and the other guys that are working specifically in our print and our facility in Salt Lake. Waleed Taslim was an Afghan commando. He joined the army right after, and when

I say that, the Afghan army right after our invasion in, I believe it was like October and November 2001, like right after. So right when the CIA and special forces invaded Afghanistan, Waleed Taslim was one of the guys that joined up right away. So he went from a 16-year-old kid to, he was, by the time that he left, I believe that was 2014 or 15. So he had been directly involved in direct action missions across Afghanistan for over 11 years. And he went from a private to a commander. His story is incredible. And so when we talk about where the Times might have missed some incredible, enlightening stories, talk about the Afghan refugees that used to be commandos that fought for us for over a decade. Waleed Taslim has over 1500 direct action

missions. The guy has breached more doors for the United States than most of the special operations guys that I know. He not only did that, but he had to move about every six months for the last two years that he was in Afghanistan because he was Afghanistan because he had been in multiple ambushes with his wife and family in his car. He had to hide his identity. He was running from the Taliban basically full time. Then he sought and received refugee status. He came to the United States. Back in 2016, we thought Wally had been killed.

So my business partner and I, we kept in contact with a lot of the Afghans and we heard that he had been killed in an ambush. One day, this guy pings us on Facebook and says, Hey guys, it's Wally. I'm in Baltimore. And we're like, whatever. Are you serious? instantly we're like get on a plane get to Salt Lake so we got him a house we brought him and his family out here gave him a job it's like you have a job get out of Baltimore what was happening in Baltimore is he was living in public housing and he was being discriminated against in public housing in Baltimore he was being called a terrorist his His kids were being called a terrorist. They were being picked on. So we jumped on a plane. We're like, get out.

Let's go. You're coming with us. Not only that, but tell me where the other guys are. Where are they? He's like, I got a few guys in San Francisco. I got a few guys here. Okay. Offer them all jobs right now.

Like they're all coming here. So it's extremely offensive for a combination of reasons, right? Which is I have no place for, uh, in my company or even in my own life for discriminatory behavior in that regard, right? These are the guys that have been fighting to the left and to the right with us for over 20 years in these countries that we've been directly involved in clandestine and overt warfare. They've risked their lives, their limbs, their eyesight, which means the same as mine. And we owe them an incredible amount of gratitude. And it would be directly misrepresented if I placated in any regard that type of behavior in the company because it's not who we are. Uh, and Wally is just one of a handful of guys that we continue to not only hire, but English tutor. We're putting them through the process of becoming a U.S. citizen. So we hire

the attorneys that is required for that to walk them through the process. They've got to test and evaluate. It's something that we're really proud of. And not only are we really proud of, it's a really rich and incredible story about how these guys have come to the United States and been successful within a veteran-owned and operated company that we were fighting together 10 years ago. And now we're roasting coffee in the United States together now, which is fucking nuts, dude. It's so like that kind of stuff makes me so happy and it fires me up that, you know, brown water can do that yeah it's fucking incredible man it is incredible and i think stories like that the only way to tell a story like that is to just tell it i don't think someone writing it is ever going to capture all of the fascinating aspects of it, all of the inspirational aspects of it,

the human aspects of it. You know, this is what I know about you guys. So when I see, first of all, we're friends. But also like when I see someone misrepresenting a company that I think is one of the most noble companies that I've ever come across. The amount of time that you guys spent trying to help first responders, military, police, I know what you guys do. So when I see you misrepresented by conservatives, and I'm not even conservative,

so I see that shit and I'm like, well, you fucking idiots. Like, what are you doing? You're doing the same thing that you accuse the people on the left of doing. It's all nuts. It's wild, man. It is. And, you know, as I kind of evolve in the last seven years and I've looked at the, especially the social media landscape and how hostile it's become. It's a really toxic environment. It's wild.

It's like so incredible on one end. And then it's like, it's like the wild west for trolls on the other end, right? They're like getting their gloves on and rolling out their keyboards and they're getting ready to hit it hard. it, to hit it hard. And I think most of this doesn't really impact me unless it's a customer that's emailing me, which to be fair, we really haven't had a lot of the customers even directly email us directly associated with this. Most of our customers are based on a direct interaction with our media that we put out on a regular basis and they kind of know the company. It is strange for a certain percentage

of the conservatives to jump on a bandwagon like that and ultimately label me or the company as anti-American, which is nuts. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. If it wasn't so ridiculous, if it wasn't, the only thing you can do is kind of laugh at it and go, dudes, are you kidding me? But it shows you how easy someone can get smeared. Even a company that's as impeccable,

has such an impeccable reputation as yours can get smeared online in this weird climate. And part of me is like, well, what? And I would like to think there's some grand conspiracy involved, right? Right. But I think it's more that the way people communicate on social media is so ineffective and shitty. It's such a bad way to disseminate ideas. It is. It's not a bad way to get headlines out there,

like, you know, bombs dropped on Syria. Okay, that's like, show some footage. Okay, here it is. But like even like video clips, have you paid attention to, there was a cop that was frisking a guy, pulled an empty baggie out of his pocket and threw it in the backseat of a car. Just pulled the baggie out of his pocket and threw it in the backseat of a car.

Just pulled the baggie out and chucked it in the car while he's frisking this guy. And it's like, you just planted evidence in the car. And then the cop explains it. No, I didn't. First of all, the baggie's empty. Second of all, he had it in his pocket. And you see his camera, the cop's camera, pulled his baggie out of this guy's pocket and drop in the backseat of the car They took the clip of the cop throwing the baggie in the car and the other guy saying you just planted evidence

And then all throughout the internet like look at this evidence of this cop planting this fucking baggie in this guy's car Oh my god. These cops are pieces of shit. They were they were trying to in this guy's car oh my god these cops are pieces of shit they were they were trying to set this guy up and everybody started attacking the police everybody started attacking this is why people don't trust the police and i saw it just shared thousands of times right and then the full video came out and in the full video you actually see the police officer explain it you see exactly what happened and you're like, this is social media in a nutshell. This is the madness of how people exchange information online. It's a bad way to communicate.

It's a bad way to go back and forth. It's not designed for human beings. No. It's like human beings trying to interface with something that's devoid of emotion, and it's devoid of context, it's devoid of social cues and the normal interactions between two human beings. that's floating around the United States internationally because of, I think, the way the media portrays a lot of different events. You know, every year there's been some type of catastrophic thing that the media has been able to pick up and really escalate. But then you have these devices, right, where people are seeking emotion.

They want a connection with people. And they can't get it from this. Right. with people and they can't get it from this. But when your default emotion is anger, because it's a really easy emotion to default to, you can't get a connection of love or a meaningful emotion out of it, but it's really easy to make a connection with somebody online and default to anger, kind of get explosive and connected. I think there's a lot of people that are really just disconnected and they're searching for some type of human interaction and they're never going to get it from an electronic device. And so I don't blame that. I think that right now we're

in this really strange predicament as a country where people are feeling isolated and alone and they're connected to their electronic devices more than they ever have been. But it's it's a toxic environment if you're trying to connect with people in a when I say a negative way and then band together and then enhance that emotion once again. I know that's probably an oversimplification, but you're not going to be able to connect with a technology device. It's just never going to happen. No. In this past year and a half, unfortunately, because of the pandemic, there's much more distance between people in terms like people aren't getting together as well. At least they weren't for a long time, they're kind of doing it now. But they were not getting together and talking. People were sharing things through phones

and most of the communication was through text. They're not even calling each other, right? And then Zoom, like people are having Zoom meetings and shit, so it's like the disconnect. I was like thinking about it. Like if there was a, if you had an artificial intelligence that was trying to get human beings to abandon everything that makes you human,

like what better way than a virus that makes you scared of other people? What better way than forcing people into their homes, making other people actually dangerous to be around? Yeah. An invisible thing. It's not like even a person has a weapon on them, right? It's an invisible thing that they might have, like a demon that leaps from their body and

can kill your grandma, right? So you're literally scared of people. So you're putting masks on. You can't see people's facial expressions. People are wearing gloves. They're hiding. They're socially distancing. You're keeping as far away from each other as you can. It's almost like it was, I know it wasn't,

but it's almost like if you had a super intelligent robot that was like, we got to figure out a way to get people to be at each other's necks even more. This is the way to do it. Make a disease that's invisible, that transmits through the air, and people have to stay away from each other, and there's no cure, and everybody's panicking. And then spread a bunch of misinformation about how it spreads. It spreads on surfaces, and it'll last up to two weeks. And you spray everything down with Lysol, and everybody's in a panic. And then, because people are scared, so many people – there's a giant percentage of our population out there that has never experienced any adversity. They do not know how to handle stress.

They don't know how to handle being uncomfortable. They don't know how to – so as soon as anything that comes their way that they can bark at, anything, they're in this state, this constant state of being perturbed. And then anything that comes to will fuck black rifle coffee, you know, fuck Joe Rogan, fuck this guy and fuck that guy. And that's what everybody does. And then people pile on people with also limited information. They all chime in and then they, you know, you're writing in a tweet, you're using a, you know, a fucking hundred characters and you're, you're, you're barking at each other and, and you're barking at each other. And you're pretending that this is normal communication.

It's like the worst way to communicate ever. It's like the worst and the counterproductive way to communicate ever. You can't explain things on Twitter. You're not going to be able to pass a sophisticated philosophical message on Twitter. You know what you're gonna do? You're gonna hand the equivalent of an internet dick pic via words on Twitter. You know what you're going to do? You're going to, you're going to hand the equivalent of an internet dick pic via words on Twitter. You're not going to

pass off and pontificate or opine about something so significant that's going to change society. But I think there's a lot of people that every time they log into Twitter, they're like, you know what? This is going to change the world. one's going to work i don't even have twitter that's the fucked up thing i don't even think they believe that i think they want people to like put a like next to their their comment i stopped using twitter during the pandemic i don't use it i occasionally will retweet something i find interesting i never post anything i rarely post anything one time i posted over the whole pandemic was when Bill de Blasio, this fucking dipshit mayor of New York City, he made this video about bringing the arts

back to New York City, that this is how we're going to revitalize the city. This is a city that has been economically crippled by his policies, right? Defund the police. Crime is at an all-time high. People are looting and smashing stores on Fifth Avenue. He's like, let them do it. Let them get it out of their system. You're literally creating a total climate of lawlessness. And then the way he's going to revitalize this city is he puts out this video about bringing back the arts. I don't know if you've ever seen it. No. It's amazing. And it's a video where it's like the most uncoordinated dancing With the worst music you've ever heard and he's standing there talking about we got to bring back the arts and it starts here

We're gonna have street performances and these people are dancing and it's it's and I just wrote how the fuck is this real? That's all I posted because it came across my face and I was like, I got to, I just, I'm going to post this. That was the only thing I posted other than like reposting interesting articles. See if you can find it because it's so, it's so dumb. That's, I think that's the great thing about, not the great thing about the pandemic. Don't get me wrong. I'm saying the one silver lining that we should all be taking from this is we get to see how fucking stupid politicians are. Yes.

This is like, this has pulled the curtain back. Yes. We get to see just how ridiculous they are. And that's where I start to look and think about individual liberty. And I start to think, why would you ever want to forfeit your freedom to one of these idiots that has control over what you or your family or your business does? Because if we've learned anything in the last year and a half, is it these people can't be trusted with a squeezy bottle. We can't trust them with the keys to the car. I wouldn't give them a 98 Cutlass with 180,000 miles

to watch. Most of them are so fucking incompetent that I wouldn't trust them to wash a dish. Right. And it amazes me when I look around

and I'm like, why are you guys so interested? You need to watch this. Pull it back from the beginning. Do it from the beginning. Give me some volume.

We need a recovery that brings back the life and the heart and the energy of this city and that everyone gets to be a part of. And we're going to do that. We're going to really bring back the heart and soul of New York City. We need our arts and culture back and we need people to see it and feel it, to participate in it, to know that that essence of New York City has been defeated By the coronavirus. And to wear masks outside.

But we'll come back strong in 2021. Month after month in 2021, as you see the city come back to life, culture will lead the way. Open culture is another step towards a recovery for our city. We're launching with 115 street locations in all five borders. And it brings stations to our neighborhoods and culture to the heart of our neighbors and give artists, cultural institutions, and creatives a place to showcase their talents

as they recover from the pandemic. Our cultural communities are... Look how bad this is! This is a Coen Brothers movie. This is not. This is literally like Fred Adler's Big Lebowski. Yeah, it is. Like, this is straight out.

And this is the same guy that just passed this fucking law in New York City where you have to have a vaccine passport to go everywhere. You have to have a vaccine to go to a restaurant, to a gym, to any place where people gather. It is crazy. And meanwhile, the vast, the biggest percentage of people that don't have vaccines or have been vaccinated are people of color. So this guy, people of color and immigrants, this is what he's always supposed to be pro, you know, pro people of color, pro diversity, pro immigration. Those are the people that don't have vaccines. And now you're precluding them from going to gyms and restaurants.

And what about the people working in the restaurants? What about all these? don't have vaccines and now you're precluding them from going to gyms and restaurants. And what about the people working in the restaurants? What about all these? It's fucking madness. And then you have a bunch of people that are supporting it. Like, yay, finally. Meanwhile, you have science is coming out. There's legitimate articles.

Jamie, I'll send this to you now. There's legitimate because doctors have been sending me these things. And, you know, this is neither pro nor con vaccine. This is not a judgment statement. But imperfect vaccination can enhance the can thus allow virulent strains to circulate in a population so vaccines that don't kill the virus vaccines that allow people like this is one of the things we're finding out about what they're calling breakthrough cases right so people who are vaccinated can still get covid and they can still transmit covid this recently happened at

the comedy store a vaccinated comedian gave covid to like 12 different fucking people at the comedy store. Some of them vaccinated, some of them not. That situation where the vaccine just kind of protects you from serious damage, but it protects you from really being like badly hospitalized or death, but doesn't stop you from getting the virus can possibly lead to more potent viruses. So these people that are saying, oh, it's these unvaccinated people that are responsible for the variants. Well, there's actually scientific papers that point to the very sort of environment that we're creating by having so many people vaccinated with a vaccine that doesn't Kill off the virus it actually can lead to more potent viruses

Try finding that story anywhere Other than doctors. I'm getting a PhD sending me these things guys who won't speak about it publicly because they're worried about the blowback people who are physicians, people who are even epidemiologists, even people that deal with diseases and viruses, and when I say they, meaning the political elite, and then I think they're established media representatives, have somehow managed to turn this into a political issue, right? And that's dangerous. It's dangerous for any politician to play in that game where they're using something as meaningful and quite possibly dangerous for the country as political posturing or virtue signaling, right? And you see it all

the time because you see these guys are wearing their masks for the camera, but then they take them off. AOC just got busted doing that yesterday. You see the video? Yeah, of course. She had no mask on, hanging out with everybody, and then they go to take a picture. She puts the mask on and then takes it off after the picture's done. Yeah, or they can have parties. What is it? How about Obama? Yeah, Obama's having that 700 guest party or whatever it is.

Or he's going to tone it down to 600 because of the pandemic. He's going to make it a little lighter. But you can't go to a gym in New York. Right. Unless you have a vaccination card. Right. Or you can't go out to eat. We're going to shut down small businesses. You can't go to a comedy club. And I think it's rules for thee and not for me scenario.

And people read right through that shit. Some people. Some people. Some people are applauding it, which is fucking terrifying. I know smart people that are applauding it, which is fucking terrifying. I know smart people that are applauding it. It's so strange. And the problem with applauding vaccine passports, this is part of the problem. They are not going to give that power up.

No. They're not going to. They're going to find a reason to continue to use that. If they can figure out a way to force you into carrying papers, into carrying something that lets you enter businesses or lets you do this or lets businesses open. As soon as you give politicians power and any kind of power that didn't exist previously, historically, they don't relinquish that power. They find new reasons to use it. Well, I think that's the history of lawmaking and political power in the United States. And I think that's why I tend to be bucketed in conservatives, because it means

smaller government to me, right? There's multiple reasons why people classify themselves as that. But I look at things and I look at the preservation of individual liberty. You know, how do I preserve more of my freedom? Because I feel like I'm in a responsible adult and I feel like I'm going to raise responsible adults. And I feel like I spend most of my time around responsible adults. Uh, I don't, it's such a, a disconnect in, disconnect in individual philosophy when I find people that are actively looking for ways that they can forfeit their individual liberty and hand it over to somebody

where they feel like they have a better interest in running their life than they do. And I understand the balance between, you know, we have to have certain laws and regulations that protect people against, you know, overt dangers. But I also understand your statement where I think politicians and I would say lawmakers and government bureaucrats have a really hard time relinquishing control once they have it because it feels good. It makes their job easier. Yeah. It makes their job easier.

They can just tell you to shut the fuck up, do what I say, and you have to. You can't work anymore unless you do what I say. That's essentially what a vaccine passport is. You can't do what you want to do unless you do what I want you to do. Don Lemon was talking about that openly on CNN. Yeah. Don't have a vaccine was talking about that openly on CNN. Don't have a vaccine? Can't go to the supermarket.

Don't have a vaccine? Can't go to work. It's so strange that people want to say things like that. That's the thing that blows me away. Why do people want to- Because they're dumb. They're dumb. They're dumb.

They don't understand history. They don't understand human beings. They don't understand history. They don't understand human beings. They don't understand human nature. They don't understand the history of every single country that's ever existed other than the United States. Up until 1776, every fucking country that has ever existed was run by dictators. Right. All of them. This is the first one where you had elected officials. This is the first experiment in self

government that actually worked. And he created the greatest superpower the world's ever known. It created the greatest cultural machine, the greatest machine of art and creativity and innovation right fucking here. And how did it do that? It did it through freedom. Because when you give people freedom, you let people do whatever the fuck they want to do they actually find ways to succeed and grow and thrive but as soon as you put the boots to them as soon as you tell them you have to do this or you can't do that you have to listen to me now you have a mini dictator you have one step away from a king you have a one step closer you're moving one step closer to dictatorship that's what what the fuck is happening. That's what's going to happen with a vaccine passport. That's what's going to happen if

they close borders. You can't enter New York City unless you have your papers. You can't go to here unless you have that. You can't get on a plane unless you do what I say. And people say, whoa, it's all about protecting people from the... No, it's not. It's not. Because we've shown, this is a fact, just a couple of months ago,

the idea of a breakthrough case was unheard of. Nobody heard of anybody catching COVID that had a vaccine, right? That was the whole idea. You get a vaccine, you don't have to worry about it. Now we know not only do you get it, but you can spread it. And some people have died. Apparently, it's a small number. I don't know what the numbers are, but I know that most people who get vaccinated, when they do have the disease, they have a better time of it than the people who are unvaccinated. But where are the people out there calling for people to get healthy? Where are the people out there calling for people to lose weight? 78% of the people in the ICU for COVID are obese.

78%. Where is that information being shared? Where's someone who's a leader who gets on TV and says, ladies and gentlemen, we've got to decrease our body mass. We've got to decrease our fat. We've got to make sure that people aren't overweight. We've got to make sure that people are healthy. Walk around your block.

You don't have to do something complicated. Start drinking more water. Stop eating sugar. Start taking vitamins. You can increase the strength of your immune system. We can fight things off better. We can be a healthier civilization. Better for everybody, right? You don't hear a peep. All you hear is take this vaccine that doesn't even prevent you from getting the disease or you can't go to the sauna or wherever the fuck you want to go. You can't go to the Broadway show. It's madness. It's madness. It really is madness. Because if it was a vaccine that really is like a, like here's a, like it's more of a

treatment than it is a vaccine, really, if you look at it. Because you're saying you need a booster now every six months. Look, if you get vaccinated for polio, you get vaccinated for the measles, you don't have to worry about it anymore. You're good. This is not that. This is a totally different kind of thing. And it's a completely new kind of vaccine. The idea that people shouldn't be skeptical or nervous about that is kind of hilarious. Well, it's kind of

hilarious that people won't try on skepticism in general. Like they need to be more skeptical. They need to push people in authority and power and hold them accountable for their words and their actions. And there's this reluctancy, I think, across the board to question power either on both sides, right? So it's like blue likes to question red, red likes to question blue. But now you'll follow lockstep in party line if one is saying something or the other That's a fucking problem. So to your point. I was reading I was reading that the history of the Nez Perce Indian tribe I've read a few books on this and just recently I'm from northern Idaho where where the Nez Perce Indian tribe ferocious people Amazing like amazing warriors. Chief Joseph

was an incredible leader, incredible history. But it struck me, there's one chapter in the books that I was reading about how the US cavalry, they were putting the Native Americans on reservations for their protection. And I'm not trying to equate this in direct correlation, but this was part of the narrative because they were saying, we want to put you guys on reservations to protect you from the settlers and from retaliation. So we want to put you guys on this, you know,

400 square reservation, 400 mile square reservation for your protection. And they're like, dude, we want to be free. I don't know what you're talking about. And they go in and they trace the over a thousand miles that Chief Joseph led his tribe through Idaho and Montana, and then up close to the Canadian border. But I couldn't help but think about, up close to the Canadian border. But I couldn't help but think about there's one sliver of history

in the late 1800s, which in 1873, I believe it was, which was also connected to the son of Meriwether Lewis was also part of the Nez Percinian tribe because he had a son there. But I thought about how us, not us as a country,

how we need to be pushed to ask more questions and we deserve more answers. And we have to hold skepticism, I think in a very high regard, and we can't beat it down. I think anytime that you question authority, it's a good thing, especially as a society, because it also says that you have a healthy society. If you have this complex narrative moving up from underneath, I think, the groundswell of information from people, you can have these complex discussions, but you also have to have very good answers to what's going on. I think you've got conflicting information that's being politicized and it's being gaslit by both sides of the media, which I don't blame people for being pissed off

and confused because man, I'm confused. Yeah. Like this is confusing as shit. The CDC releases something. The president will say something else. Some random governor somewhere that I've never heard of will say something else. And you're like, what the hell is going on what is going on yeah that's that's why i listen to uh crystal and saga because they yeah typically know what what's well they typically know what's going on and they're they're a great example because that show breaking points you got saga who's on the right and crystal who's on the left but they're good friends they get along well and they're both super honest and objective Rational and intelligent and they can discuss all the finer points of these issues

Honestly openly and it's that's why they're thriving. Yeah, it's why CNN like some of their shows there Some of the shows are they get a hundred thousand views in the key demographic less less than 100,000 even. That's crazy. Since Trump is out of office and they don't have a boogeyman, their boogeyman is unvaccinated people. That's what they're doing. Their boogeyman is different things they can attack. Well, did you hear Brennan, the former, I think he's a former head of the clandestine service, national security agency. He was on CNN, and this is a horrible reference because I'm messing it up, but he came out and he said, these are the extremist groups in America, right? And he was talking about how the people that are pro 2A and libertarians

and anti-vaxxers and all these other people have banded together. And he was labeling literally people that are exercising their constitutional rights in a legitimate political party in the United States as an extremist. He said it on CNBC in a morning show. CNBC in a morning show so it was the quiet part out loud where some of these people actually think this way where you can have a Your constitutional rights to own a firearm But there's a portion of the United States that sees you as some crazy person like a radical or if you belong to If you're a libertarian, they see you as a radical because they're like, oh, we want less government. Well, of course, bureaucrats will hate that idea, right? If you're trying to fight against bureaucracy, they're going to be like, dude, we want more.

We want more of your tax dollars. We want more of the responsibility for you, your business, your family, and your community. We want more of that because you can trust us. That's basically the narrative that I find across the board to a lot of people that are professional politicians and professional bureaucrats. I think they're teaming up. And then now you have media as well. And to your point, you've got these dying outlets because there isn't the big bad guy anymore to drive ratings so now they have to

invent and sensationalize a bunch of horse shit in order to try to get eyeballs which man it's almost like it's it's even progressing in in a in a worse if that's a way to describe that it's progressing in an even more negative way for people to monetize, which is a different conversation, but that's their entire monetization strategy. I have a thought, and I think that news should be free. I think not only should it be free, I think it should be subsidized by the people so that the salaries of all the people that are working in these news organizations. There's there's no incentive whatsoever to sensationalize stories and that

There should almost be like some sort of overview So but then how would you do that right like how would you use some citizens overview? Would they make sure that people don't sensationalize things in order to get people hyped up? So they click on you know if it bleeds it leads has always been the thing with the news but if they could figure out a way to distribute the news completely objectively with no commercials with no no financial incentive just give people information let them know what the fuck there's a real problem when information in terms of like what's going on in the world it can be distorted and it could be magnified or it could be obfuscated they could do

they could figure out a way to paint it in a way or to portray it in a way that's gonna get more people to pay attention to it and if they can get more people to pay attention to it then they profit more that's what they did with Trump and these fucking dummies got Trump elected. That's what's crazy. Like, every time he would say crazy shit, like, they would put him, can you believe this man thinks he's going to be president? And then people are like, ah, I like his style.

And there's so many people out there that loved when he would say shit. You know, like- Horsefacer. Yeah. Oh, my God. But that was when he was president. I know. When he was president, he called a lady he had sex with horseface. Oh my god, but that was when he was president. I know when he was president

He called a lady he had sex with horse face Like oh my god. I mean I'll do it's a wild. He's wild. Yeah, he's a wild wild. Well. He's a billionaire That's the thing it's like yeah, you can't control him the way you can control normal politicians And that's one of the things that frustrated them also. It's like the way he communicates right? It's one of the things that frustrated them. Also, it's like the way he communicates. Right. It's not good because it does cause conflict.

It's not a uniting voice, right? And it's like he's always going to have massive support of his base because he's kind of got them all frothy at the mouth. They're on the team. Everyone's like, we fucking need you. And that's one of the arguments for the january 6th invasion of the capitol like that whole thing because he was like you need to make a strong statement and go up there and show these people a lot of people like well you you know you have these people eating out of the palm of your hands and you kind of ask them to go do

something wild and and then it happened and then people are like well this is one of the reasons why you can't have a guy talking like that he wants to be a leader yeah i think leadership comes with uh with a profound amount of responsibility yes and uh i i also think that you can't take responsibility for everyone's actions, right? So it's one of those things where there has to be a clear delineation between what's reasonable and what's a realistic expectation, which is no reasonable law-abiding citizen thinks it's okay to penetrate a federal building, for instance. And that's happened both on the left and the right. Where does it happen on the left? Well, I think inland is where they're trying

to burn the building down that's barely america barely yeah portland is like some crazy socialist fucking island soviet republic of oregon they're trying they're trying to fuck that city up so bad well but that's the thing i think when you also see this because people saw this lawlessness happening throughout the entire year. And I also think that the media directly contributes to gaslighting and then pulling people up in this context of spinning them up on both sides. So now they're really pissed off. Right. Or diminishing the seriousness of these acts. They are.

There was a photo on CNN where they were talking about mostly peaceful protests. Mostly peaceful. And behind them is a burning building. Right. There's nothing peaceful about fire. There permissible, which I think every logical person in what we had that conversation about logic is that that's not okay. It's not okay to burn down buildings. It's not okay to go in and intimidate people in federal facilities. It's not okay to spit and cuss at the police for something. It's just not okay. I have zero issue with people and their right to protest peacefully, like zero. I think it's awesome. I love seeing it. Part of being American. Yeah, that's like exercise your constitutional rights.

Like, that's awesome. And so when I see it, regardless of where it's at, I'm like, that's cool. But when you take the step to start throwing Molotov cocktails or penetrating federal buildings, you lost me Yeah, you lost me. You lost me. Yeah, and the people that think that you need violence in order to get your point across You don't you don't even know what the fuck violence is. You think violence is hitting someone the head with a skateboard That's not violence you fucking dummy Like real violence is coming your way if you really want to think really think you're going to take over the government with skateboards, bonking people over the head and throwing Molotov cocktails, and I've said this before and I'll say it

again, it's one of the things that's happening in this country that these people don't understand what they're doing. They think they're going to cause some sort of chaos to the point where they're going to overthrow the government. They're going to overthrow this country and burn it to the ground. I mean, this is a narrative that gets expressed over and over again by the more radical people amongst us, that the United States is unfixable,

and we need to burn it to the ground and start from scratch. Boy, I... It's fucking crazy. It's fucking crazy, and it's a really... Irresponsible. It's irresponsible. It's irresponsible of people And it's a really, uh, it's irresponsible. It's irresponsible. It's irresponsible of people that continue to propagate that narrative too. Uh, cause I've definitely seen it, uh, in different, you know, YouTube forums or channels or whatever it might

be. It's irresponsible. It's irrational. Uh, and from both sides, when you think about how far this country has come, and if I go on my pro-America rant here for a second, which is we built something so incredible that we should be so proud of everything that we've done in the last couple hundred years and that we're continuing to evolve the system and make the country better. And that we're continuing to evolve the system and make the country better But when I look at the country, I'm like this place is fucking incredible. It's crazy. It's it's a little bit insane It's a little bit like wild and a little bit extreme and you got like mountains and deserts and you've got you know Cowboys in Texas and dudes toting guns out in the middle of the West and like you got big Skyscrapers and jazz and rock and roll. This place is fucking rad. It's awesome. It's awesome. And I've spent the majority of my adult life outside of this country, by the way, like in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. And it's nothing against those countries, but I love this one. It's so fucking beautiful and amazing that

we should be like high-fiving each other going, guys is free we've done a pretty good job and i'm not saying it's not it's not perfect right but just the fact that we can go out and protest and say a bunch of crazy ass shit together and people don't like stuff us in a closet in the middle of nowhere for just expressing our ideas. That's an incredible evolution of any country to be able to do that. Now, when you look at 50 states varying in the way that they look at their population and the way that we've got different cities in these different states, they've got different laws. They've got all these combined united states that are so fucking weird that we should be so happy and appreciative of where we live and that's where i am because i think of this place every day where i'm so fortunate i'm so proud

to live here and i don't look at it as a negative in any regard. And I think there's a section of our country that looks at it where they're like, where that narrative of the flag, right? And you've heard this, where the flag is seen as negative by a certain portion of the United States. I'm like, that flag is something that we should all be really fucking proud of, man. We've been able to evolve our circumstance as a nation and build this big, crazy, beautiful place that's so fucking cool that we should be celebrating that flag on a regular basis. We should be celebrating the people that serve our country on a regular basis.

So it wears me out with this narrative and I get really pissed off and a little bit angry when I hear people trashing, especially United States citizens, when they're saying about the United States being this horrible Institution needs to be burned to the ground is the one of the very? Beautiful things about the United States that you have the freedom to do that Yeah, you have the freedom to express opinions and you know how many people are contrarians Do you know any people that are never happy how many people everything every time something is awesome. They want to shit on it That's just how people are. There's a lot of people that see things that are amazing and they're like, fuck Jimi Hendrix.

And you're like, what? What did you just say? There's people who will say Jimi Hendrix sucks and you just go, okay. You have the freedom to do that because we live in this amazing place. That's like my line of saying is Jimi Hendrix. It's like, what are you saying? What are you saying? It's like, fuck the Grand Canyon. That's like my line of saying is Jimi Hendrix. It's like, what are you saying?

What are you saying? It's like, fuck the Grand Canyon. That place looks stupid. It's a big hole in the ground. But there are people who, I actually had a bit about that. Did you really? Yeah, I had a bit about people going, you gotta see the Grand Canyon, it's a must see. And I would go, look up. I go, you're looking at a ditch.

Like literally, we are flying through the universe. It's an infinite number of stars. They're above our heads. There's giant fireballs with planets circling around them. There's more stars than there are grains of sand. And you're staring at a ditch. I'm like, you can see the bottom. I'm like, why is it even interesting?

A bit about the Grand Canyon, about people saying you have to see it. But it was just a joke. Obviously, the Grand Canyon, about people saying that you have to see it. But it was just a joke. Obviously, the Grand Canyon is awesome. But the idea is that there's always going to be, no one is going to universally love everything. There's always going to be people that find things that everybody loves or that a giant percentage of people love and they think it sucks. And that's their prerogative.

It's one of the beautiful things about this country is that you have the freedom to express yourself. And there's a lot of people that think things suck. And then as they get older, they realize why they thought those things suck and they change their opinion. They change their point of view. They change their perspective. The ability to evolve your opinions is one of the beautiful things about a free country. The ability to express yourself, even if what you're saying is preposterous. The problem is when people want to organize and use violence to overthrow a thing that they see as opposite of what their beliefs are. And that's one of the problems you're seeing today in this world where people think that you can use violence to overthrow things. And again, it's mostly people think that you can use violence to overthrow

things. And again, it's mostly people. If you look at these Antifa protests, it's people that have no business talking about violence. You don't even know what violence is. And my take on it has always been like, there's millions of veterans in this country. And if you really get to a point where you start calling for a civil war and you think that you're going to fucking overthrow this country, the veterans are going to come out and you're going to have a real fucking problem. Dude.

You're going to have a real, and it's going to be quick, quick and ugly and horrific. Well, I, ah, man, I, you know, how do I, how do I step into this one? This one's pretty fun. This one would be funny but uh i was thinking about this like over the last couple months with these guys especially the antifa characters right where they're like okay we're we're really tough and you're like dude if you want to know what tough is like you guys are headed on a one-way road to uh being classified as a terrorist organization. Once you do that, you're going to meet tough, you're going to meet it about two

o'clock in the morning, and a flashlight while you're in your parents basement with a muzzle at the end of it. And that's not you're going to pee your pants, you're going to, you know, meet a person that is actually really tough. They've been trained for decades to do things that are very hazardous. And I just kind of laugh at the narrative because, uh, I think about my buddies and I over the last like couple of decades. And, uh, and I think about how we were just kind of like bumbling idiots at times, but we're, but I knew some bad motherfuckers, like straight up some of the hardest dudes you'll ever meet. And you've had a couple of them on the show, like Dakota Meyer and Marcus Luttrell and these guys. Jocko.

Jocko, like bad mofos. And I was talking to somebody, it was like my previous profession. I was like, if anybody were to step into my Life just get a snapshot like if we were to switch brains for or bodies for like five minutes Just a normal day at the office for me. They would go into fucking cardiac arrest They'd be like oh Because actually I would like a normal day at the office is like me going through Mosul, Iraq, which is basically like Mad Max wearing a burqa in the backseat of a, you know, a thin skin vehicle with a belt fed machine gun trying to hide from ISIS.

So I don't get, you know, my head cut off with a couple other guys as we're trying to sneak around and look for ISIS, right? We're just playing cat and mouse. And I'm like, dude, at any point in time, my job was like looking like an Arabic woman in the back of an old Corolla with a belt-fed machine gun with a bunch of people that wanted to kill me every second of every day. And then you got a bunch of dudes that are like, oh my God, we're so tough. I'm like,

man, you couldn't handle five seconds in my life on a normal day where my, where my, you know, beats per minute weren't, weren't going above 56. And what's amazing is it's because of people like you, that people like that get to express themselves in these ridiculous ways.

They don't understand that you have given them the freedom because of your dedication and sacrifice. You've given them the freedom to exist in this land and be ridiculous. And I love it. I do, man. I love it. It's part of the gig. It's part of the gig.

It's like, freedom's like a big buffet, right? Yeah. You don't have to take everything. Right. But it's all there. You don't have to eat the tomatoes. Yeah. It's like, ah, I'm going to pass on that. that doesn't look too cool that cheese looks old right exactly you don't

have to take it all and some people they feel disenfranchised and they want to go right to the old cheese because they're like the fucking old cheese is just like me i want blue hair and old cheese and shitty music and i wear i'm wearing doc markings and i want to fucking burn it all down i mean that that is what it is when people are rebels it's like socialism right they don't feel shitty music and I wear a Doc Markins and I want to fucking burn it all down. I mean, that is what it is when people are rebels. It's like they don't feel like they're accepted in any other way. I mean, that's a lot of what's going on today is there's a lot of people that are disenfranchised. They don't feel accepted by the modern mainstream world. And so they're filled with pain and they're filled with heartache and they're hurting and they want to burn it all down because they think that's the solution.

Well, I think a lot of it is just because they're not, they're not living up to their full potential, right? And like when you're pushing the machine and I like to tell people this, it's like, I'm pushing my machine, my machine at 150%. Like i can't get any more out of this brain or this body like i'm redlining basically 24 hours a day because i've got to get it all right i'm going to ring this sponge on this fucking thing and i'm gonna get every ounce out of it and i think a lot of people they're trying to stay in In the confines of safety and they're really trying to just like play it safe and not push it to the fucking max They want to be body positive. Yeah like plus-size models

That's what it is. I know look, you know if it was easy to just be Enormous and obese and everybody would love you Right. Well, that's what's going on now. You could just literally put in no effort whatsoever to take care of your machine, and people would go, you go, boy. Yeah. You go.

Hey, way to be lazy. Way to get everything. You're born into literally the life lottery in this country. Yeah. And way to get everything out of it by being a lazy piece of shit. You go. Hit it.

I was talking to one of my buddies and he was telling me, he was like, well, you know, he was asking me I was telling him, how's it going on your show? He was like, well, what are you guys going to talk about? I'm like, I don't fucking know. Like, we're going to talk, just talk shit, basically. And I was he's like well what are you guys gonna talk about i'm like i don't fucking know like we're gonna talk just talk shit basically and uh i i was i was i was talking to him about like the story about how i was like man maybe i'll tell him the story about how i took fan boats out into the middle of this like out in the middle of the jungle in the philippines trying to get into a

gunfight tell me that story oh so here's here's a great story. And now that I did the key up for it. So I've been working in Afghanistan, Iraq for several years, and I'm, I'm pretty comfortable with just trying to pick a gunfight. Like, I'm okay with it. Like, I'll go out and pick a gunfight. Fuck them. I'm gonna go like wreck some people. I don't give a shit. At that point in my life, I really didn't give a shit. Didn't have any kids. I was single. Like, let's just go out and try to pick a gunfight. So I went out and looked at the maps as to all the ambushes the Filipino army had been in, in this specific area of the Philippines. And I was like, oh, okay, let's go do medical capabilities, which is where we go out and we bring in people from the tribe and we assess them for medical conditions. But really all I was doing is just like taking these fanboats up this river into the middle of nowhere and then performing a big show of force on every one of these ambush sites, trying to pick fights with the Filipino terrorist the filipino terrorist cells that are at the abu sayyaf and uh at the same time in the evenings when we come back i would be singing karaoke with the filipinos on these like dirt four uh like you know thatch huts till like three o'clock in the

morning drinking like kool-aid and and rice wine, just getting blind drunk, like no shit, blind drunk every night. And then we take fan boats into the middle of places trying to get in gunfights every morning. It was one of the coolest trips I've ever done in the army because we're completely unrestricted. All we were doing is trying to get in a gunfight. We never did. But when I think about how fucking cool that was that the American taxpayer paid for me to go to the Philippines to try to get in a gunfight with a bunch of terrorists while I was singing karaoke till like three o'clock in the fucking morning, taking fan boats into the middle of nowhere. I'm like, you guys are awesome. And I

can't thank everybody enough for that because not only as you said it you're like hey thank you for doing that dude it was so much fun like the years that i was doing it i always try to tell people like i should be thanking you because i had so much fucking fun throughout those years doing incredible things that people would say were a little bit dangerous and a little bit yeah yeah a little bit dangerous a little bit a lot dangerous depending on the circumstance yeah but i had a blast man but it takes a special type of person to enjoy that yeah there's a lot of different people in this world there's people in this world that should be tattoo artists there's people in this world that should make balloon animals and there's people in this world that should be tattoo artists. There's people in this world that should make balloon animals. And there's people in this world who should take fan boats

and look for gunfights. That was me. Yeah. And you need everybody. You need them all. We need all of them. We need guitarists. We need painters. We need construction workers and carpenters and we need surgeons. We need everybody. It's a beautiful machine. It requires all sorts of things. It requires all sorts of different personalities and different, but the fact that we have the freedom for you to choose what you want to do, like you're not being drafted. You enlisted. You had the choice to do this.

You sought out adventure. You sought out your life's purpose, whatever calling you had to join the military, and the fact that we live in this amazing experiment in self-government, that you have the freedom to do that. We have to protect those freedoms at all costs, whether you agree with them or not, whether you agree with people's choices or not you have to protect their ability to make those choices Because it is the foundation that this country was founded on Freedom that concept this this idea of freedom. There's so many people that think it's frivolous. It's not important

It's not it's not the the main thing that we should be focused on but it is the thing the main thing that we should be focused on, but it is the thing. It's the literal structure that allows this country to be so fucking amazing is that you can choose what you want to do. You can find the thing that everyone's different. You're different than me. I'm different than Jamie. We're all different.

There's people next door that are totally different than us. It's find your thing. And this country allows people to find their thing. But you got to allow everybody to find their thing. As long as they're not fucking with your thing and this country allows people to find their thing But you gotta allow everybody to find their thing as long as they're not fucking with your thing as long as someone's not interfering in a malicious way with other people's happiness and an Ability to live a purposeful life That is what we should be concentrating on giving people as much freedom as they can to discuss things, to participate, to choose their path in life. And as soon as you see something, anything that comes along and inhibits your freedom,

you should be very, very wary and very cautious of that thing. You should be very suspicious because anything that comes along that can inhibit your freedom is in, by definition, it's anti-American. So I got a question for you then. Because of this, do you think that your political or individual ideology, do you think that you fit into a political party in America today? Definitely not. No, I am such a fucking homeless person when it comes to politics.

I am liberal in every social way. First of all, when I was a kid, my family, my parents were hippies. We were on welfare. We had food stamps. Like, that was what kept my family alive when I was a small boy. I remember it very clearly.

I remember going to the supermarket and my parents buying food stamps. I remember being embarrassed that we drank powdered milk. I remember being on welfare. But they got out of that. They worked their way out of that situation. They used government assistance in the best possible way and went on to live a fulfilled and happy and successful life. I saw it happen. So because of that, I have a dedication to social programs.

I have a dedication to this idea that all social programs like welfare and food stamps, all those things, it's not all bad. And people think it enables people to be lazy. It's not always the case. I think sometimes people get in a bad situation, and as a community, it's good to have a safety net. Like, it's good to think of ourselves as neighbors. It's good to think of ourselves as country, as a community. And you contributed that. I happily pay my taxes.

I have no problem with it. I'm happy. I'd be happy to pay more if I thought the government was competent and it was going to make for a better life for people, if it was going to make for less homelessness, less joblessness, less people that are fucked with medical bills, less people that are in debt because of student loans. If I thought that that was the case, I'd be happy to pay more. So I'm very liberal in that way. I'm very liberal in terms of civil rights, gay rights, women's rights,

all those core issues that make a person a progressive. I'm very much in line with that. I also have a lot of guns. I'm also a hunter. I'm very pro-Sec with that. I also have a lot of guns. I'm also a hunter. I'm very pro second amendment. I'm also very pro military, very pro police, very pro first responders, fire department. I think you need discipline. You need authority. I've been a disciplined person my whole life. I've been around people that are either military people or police officers because of my martial arts experience my whole fucking life. I've been around people that are either military people or police officers because of my martial arts experience

my whole fucking life. I have a deep respect for them. You never hear me talking shit about the police or the military. It's not my thing. So I'm in this weird because that puts me in conservative land. I'm very conservative in that regard. I'm very conservative in that I believe

in discipline and I believe that if you give people a way out of things and you let them weasel their way through things and find excuses And and find a scapegoats and reasons why they're not successful and reasons why things are fucked up and they'll do it They'll do it because it's human nature It's human nature for people to find to seek comfort and to seek to seek escape and to seek escape and to seek excuses. It's a human nature thing. So in that regard, I'm very, very right wing. I'm very discipline oriented. I believe that there's a lot of luck involved in life.

And there's a lot of, we're very fortunate. Look, I'm very fortunate just to have been born in America. I'm very fortunate to have had adversity as a young person. So I recognize and I appreciate success as a man. So I'm politically homeless. So I'm in this weird both way world where I see people that are trying to enact programs to absolve people of student loan debt. And I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm in. I see programs where people are trying to fix inner cities and provide community support and provide ways that you enact programs

that help people get out of bad situations. And I'm all in on those too. So I'm homeless. I'm politically homeless. Do you think that there's a lot of people right now that feel like they're politically homeless? Yes. I think there's a lot of people right now that feel like they're politically homeless? Yes. I think there's more people in the center than there are even on both sides now. Because I think one of the things that happened during the Trump administration

and during the pandemic, that a lot of people did not feel like they belong on one side or the other. But they're in communities where you have to support one side or the other. But they're in communities where you have to support one side or the other, or you don't feel like you have a tribe. And everybody wants to be a part of a tribe. And it takes real courage to stand out away from your tribe and say, I don't agree with that. I agree with this. Because then people will attack you. I don't think you should be forced to do this. And I don't think you should tell a person they have to do that. I don't think you should be spending money on this or that or how come we're ignoring the corporate involvement on this side but we're not ignoring it on our side.

Like I think that partisanship and tribal shit that we're experiencing right now is one of the worst aspects of this country. And the fact that we have these two parties and it's only two. It's so crazy. But both elections, both past two elections, I voted independent. Right. I voted for Gary Johnson and I voted for Joe Jorgensen for the latest one.

I just think I'm homeless. Well, I think a lot, I think a lot of people feel that way. Yeah. Like, you know, I vote on a combination of issues every time,

you know, the important issues that to me specifically. But I feel disenfranchised from the system. And I think a lot of people do. I think they feel like the system has let them down like two choices. Yeah. It's crazy. This is, this is fucking America, man. Like we have 50 different versions of soda water and we can't come up with yeah you know more than two parties i think that's how we run each different state yeah and i think when we look at the the two-party system like one of the things that continues to break my brain is how do we dig our way out of this two-party system from your perspective have you thought about this have you given like how do you

dig your way out this motherfucker's got it on lock they got it locked up they got it locked up i mean they really do i mean one of the things they did when ross perot came along the commission for presidential debates they they decided you have to have a larger percentage of the vote in order to participate in the debates and even even then they've still figured out a way how to lock people out like they lock Tulsi Gabbard out of the debates that That shit pissed me off. It should piss everybody off. You may be so fucking angry people that are Democrats that want a strong woman who's a woman of color who's a veteran who's a Congresswoman for eight years she has everything deployed twice overseas worked in a medical unit Yeah, I mean she everything about her is positive. She's a fucking leader to the bone. She's your girl

That's your girl You guys want a powerful strong female leader who who really does walk the walk and talks it right Tulsi Gabbard's your girl She's right there. She's right there, and they didn't want nothing to do with her Now they try to lock her out Yeah, that was one of the things that conservatives burnt me down about because you know, I open my I'm open book I'm open Komodo most of the time like yeah, I contributed to her campaign. You know why because she was One of if the only Democrat holding Hillary Clinton accountable for her actions, she was fucking taking her to task on a regular. And if you don't think I want to put another coin in that jukebox, you're fucking crazy.

Like, I loved it. Every second of it. When Hillary came out and said, you're a Russian asset, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. A veteran. A veteran. you fucking kidding me they're crazy it's crazy not only is it a veteran a veteran like so the former secretary of state the former first lady the the former presidential candidate the person

that wields probably the single most influential female politician in america came out and called a military officer a Russian asset. Every person in America should have been like, let's put some money in that jukebox and hear another song. Yeah, everybody who supported her should have hit the brakes. Fuck yes. They should have been like, what did you say? What did you do? And if your heart doesn't go out to a person like that,

especially a veteran, right? Like I try to, when I see veterans like going out and doing some fucking incredible things, man, like all I can do is just go, how do I double down support? Like that's what I want is I want to see veterans like holding politicians specifically accountable for their actions. Like, man, I love that. specifically accountable for their actions. Like, man, I love that. Like there's nothing more than, than especially somebody like that in the DNC that's holding the most powerful female politician accountable, dude, that was so impressive. And, uh, we talked, you know, I do consider a friend and I respect her a lot. We talked over that period of time. And I can't believe that the American public didn't recoil in that action.

Like it was astounding to me that they would let that happen from a person of power. The thing is there was no blowback in the media. So people who are just programmed to think that only things that are in the media are important They just let it slide and it wasn't even a blowback on Fox News because they didn't want to support someone on the left It wasn't even anybody on the right that said hey, what the fuck is this? And I think they made a mistake there they made a mistake there and I think you know just as an American There should be certain rules and certain lines You don't cross when you want to call a person who's by the way active duty, right? She still deploys Yes, she was she would she fucking she facetimed me with some soldiers just a few days ago

It's like like a week ago. We were talking on the phone. She's still active and she is Impeccable. I mean, they couldn't find anything about her. They tried. They tried, man. They tried to dig up. And so what do they do? They try to smear her name by saying a Russian asset.

Look, if you think that Russia would rather have her in place than Hillary Clinton or all these other fucking lifelong politicians. That's a hilarious notion. Hilarious. It's hilarious. Yeah. Well, and she was one of the only people, because I've been asked this question a lot, right? She was one of the only Democrats to vote down a piece of legislation that was going to require the VA to hand over medical records from veterans when you're doing a background check for firearms. I was like,

that is a huge mistake because a lot of people that I know have anxiety issues. They have issues that are directly from the war, but it wouldn't prevent them from owning a firearm. Now, when you have the government and bureaucrats making decisions as to who can or can't own a firearm based on a perceived medical condition, that's a super slippery slope. representative specifically for Hawaii or for the veteran community that even though I don't, I don't agree with everything she has politically. I don't agree with Dan Crenshaw a hundred percent of the time either, but I do consider him a friend. I, I, I respect his opinion, but I don't have to agree uniformly with every one of these people. As do I agree the same way. I agree wholeheartedly across the board with everything you just said. It's like having a complex discussion and a debate and then being able to disagree with people politically and also respect them and also befriend them.

That's America. It is America. Yeah. The idea that there's two sides and there's a blue side and the red side and the red side is enemies with the blue side and the red side is enemies with the blue side. The blue side is enemies with the red side. No, the red and the blue is part of the fucking flag. Right.

Yeah, it's right. It's all together. It's all together. It's literally all together. It's supposed to be together. It's supposed to be. You work things out. I have friends that are conservative.

I have friends that are liberal. Look at you. We're supposed to be able to communicate about things without thinking of the other side as being evil. That's the crazy thing about the purity tests that each side wants to put people through. And then you have this chunk in the middle, which I consider myself right of center most of the time on most issues, you know, depending on the issue. But you have this purity test that the extremes always want to put everybody through, right? And it's crazy to me. It's a fictional narrative where people will agree in total with everything the far left or the far right will do. And then to a certain degree,

I think you have those extremes holding the center hostage in America because they're loud, right? They're kind of loud and a little bit obnoxious and everybody's like, oh man, that's like that weirdo that comes to your Thanksgiving party. You're like, dude, I don't really like that guy, but I mean, he's there. I guess I got to tolerate him for a while, dude, I don't really like that guy, but I mean, he's there. I guess I got to tolerate him for a while, which is probably a bad analogy. But the center in the broad percentage of Americans, we just love the country. We respect our families. We go to work. We can politely disagree. And we can have a complex discussion about issues and hopefully two or multiple parties will come away with a greater understanding of the way that this person thinks and maybe respect or politely disagree or not respect that person's opinion. But I think that's what makes this country so incredible.

this country so incredible. Uh, we, in my neighborhood, for instance, my neighborhoods are like, you know, my, my neighbors are very liberal and, uh, all of our kids play together. Like we were having this Halloween party and we were talking, right. We were talking about guns and politics and a bunch of other shit, which is never a good discussion depending on how this is going. But I was like, yeah, man, like I'm putting in a generator in the house and putting in some solar panels and, you know, because I want to make sure that if something happens, my family still has power. So I have redundancy because some would call you a prepper, but I'm just a guy that likes redundancy. And my neighbors were like, yeah, that's a good idea. That's a really

good idea. Where'd you get that generator? Like who's the solar panel company that you're working with? And then we started talking about firearms. Well, they're very liberal and they were talking about firearms and like, Hey, so things are kind of sketchy, you know, things are kind of sketchy uh what kind of firearms do you guys like own or whatever i'm like hey man are you looking for one like oh no no i i'm just wondering out of you know curiosity i was like yeah but you know if you go and get some training and you know you can legally own and possess firearms like i think it's i think it's a great thing they're like yeah i actually agree with that you know it took me about two seconds of inarticulate debate to be like, yeah, I think a firearm's a good idea.

They're just like, that's a really good idea. Don't you think that changed during the pandemic? That's one of the things that really accelerated it. Yeah, the lines outside the gun stores in LA were hilarious. I'd be driving by going, you're a little late. You guys should have been here years ago. I got a pallet of ammo uh one of my best investments i've ever made yeah i have a uh more than one person asked to borrow

a gun oh yeah guys who i i were friend was friends with in la and i've had other friends that they said the same thing happened to them like people were liberal friends were asking to borrow guns from them i have a text string on my phone which is like one of the most funny text rings you'll ever ever read i'll pull it up if i can later so it's one of my friends that's holding me to task over ars he's like this is a unnecessary purchase i can't believe it's in our society. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, hey, man, it's our right to bear arms. This is a semi-auto. I kind of explained what the use is and why I think that it's a justifiable purchase. And then he's like, basically, fuck you, which was the next text.

Three months later, as the pandemic's kicking off he's like hey man i just want to apologize for what i said about those guns earlier uh which ones would you recommend for purchase and i was like hey dude i can recommend all kinds of them like i've had these conversations with people where they're like, well, that's okay, but that's not okay. Right. Well, it's good to have, you know, if you have a pistol in your house to protect yourself, that's fine, but not an AR, right? Like, they'll, like, look for, like, common ground. Like, can we agree on that?

I'm like, what is the difference? Like, what do you think is the difference? One of them is better at killing people that want to kill you. Like, what do you think is, why do you think an AR is bad? Cause you have more chances to stay alive. Cause you have a larger round or a larger amount of bullets you can shoot.

Like, what is it about it that bothers you that it looks like a military weapon? Like, what is it? Is it the looks? Like, what is it about an AR? Like,

is it just the fact that it's semi-automatic? Like, what is, what's the thing that drives you crazy? And it's a political thing. It's like, ARs have been demonized in the news to the point where people look at a magazine that has, you know, X amount of bullets, and they go, why do you need so many bullets? Well, you don't. Until you do. And if you do you do, then you're happy that you have a large magazine. Like, this is not that complicated. It's not. You're not going to use it unless you need to use it. And if you need to use it, wouldn't you want something that's the most effective tool for the job? If you have 30 fucking people trying to break into your house and you only have six bullets because you have a revolver that's not good no yeah i'm not saying you're ever gonna have 30 people trying to break into your house dude but if you do do you need 900 horsepower no no

but i like it yeah when you need it it comes in handy and it's also fun it's freedom right it's like people ask me that all the time like why do you like you know well it's black rifle coffee company right so why do you like ARs I'm like well one it was a tool in my profession for a long period of time two it's

my recreation it's my protection it's a combination of things that I love about that rifle like it's nostalgic it's my recreation. It's my protection. It's a combination of things that I love about that rifle. It's nostalgic. It's directly connected to my DNA because I carried it. It was attached to me for over a decade. Keeping you alive. Keeping me alive.

It's life-saving equipment. The name is an homage to the thing that kept me alive. It was literally the wall between life or death. Right. And now it truly is one of those things that I find this connection, not only to my past and what I've done in my past, but it's also, it's a hobby.

I mean, I have a range and right here in San Antonio, I've got a hundred yard range and I've got a mile. I can shoot out to a mile out there. So I love shooting. Like I've been telling my, I've been telling a lot of people that I'm a projectile enthusiast because I shoot anything. Like I don't care if it's ski ball, rifle, pistol, bow. I don't care. Like I just love hitting targets with projectiles. It's fucking amazing. It's really fun. Yeah. It's super fun. oh, you mean I'm in love with freedom and I'm in love with doing the things that are completely legal? And oh, by the way, I think you should be really proud

of where you were born and your city, your state, and your country. I think it's pretty amazing. And so the box magazines and round capacity, we've kind of gone down the rabbit hole on these things multiple times. I'm like, why do you want to restrict what people are doing with

no justifiable data that can tell me why I should not be able to have this well I think for a long time people thought it was a preposterous conversation to say that a well-armed militia like the the the right to keep bear arms, a well-armed militia. Like, wait a minute, you're going to overthrow the government? You really think you're going to overthrow the government? Like people thought that was really preposterous. But I think there's a lot of people that paid attention to what's going on right now in Hong Kong. And they realized like, oh my God, Hong Kong was just taken over, essentially taken over by China in this really crazy open way. And we saw these massive protests.

There's a meme that I have on my phone. Here, I'll send it to you, Jamie. It says, be the America that Hong Kong likes to think you are. Let me see if I can find it. I got it in here. But it's these guys in Hong Kong waving the American flag, hoping that America is going to step in and do something to stop them from taking over. Here.

Oh, it's from my friend Lando. Here, I'll text this to you, Jamie. Unfortunately, it's a screenshot. But it's good because it's groovy Lando. Lando Venato fights for the UFC. Had it on his Instagram, and I screenshotted it. It's these guys protesting in Hong Kong because China is taking over the country, and they're enforcing the same sort of draconian laws that they have in the rest of China on Hong Kong, which until the 1990s was a British colony.

Like, be the America Hong Kong thinks you are. Like, look at that. I mean, these guys- It's incredible. But they don't have the right to keep and bear arms. There's hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions in the streets, protesting China's taking over. What if they all had guns?

Wouldn't that change? And people go, well, that's not here. That's not us. Well, it's not here. It's not us now. But the thing about every single civilization that's ever existed, all empires fall. And if we're in the process of this empire collapsing, and I'm not sure if we are or aren't, but I don't think anybody really recognized

that Rome was falling before it fell. I don't think anybody, any of the ancient civilizations that are no longer in power. I think the sign was, I think you might even addressed it, was like Romans started concentrating on their genitalia,

and that was like one of the signs was like, you guys are fixated on arbitrary items versus like fixing the state. Yeah. They started getting a little too free. Yeah. Okay. They got wacky. They got wacky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. I think, well, an example, and I don't know if this is a great example is, you know, in Afghanistan, we're pulling out of Afghanistan, obviously, after 20 years, which I completely and wholeheartedly agree with, by the way, is, you know, the average education level in Afghanistan of the Taliban fighter that we were fighting, I think was the equivalent of

like second grade education, right? And the average weapons system was an AK-47. And so when you have the narrative out there that is like, okay, well, why is an armed society a good society? And the government should actually be, it shouldn't be in fear of its people, but it should respect the people. It should respect the power of the individual. And not that there would be any form of armed revolution in any circumstance. I'm definitely not saying that. I'm saying an armed society is one that can protect itself from government overreach.

Because politicians and the political establishment, they understand the dynamic of power. And that's one of the things that I continue to come back to is like this, this sanctuary of our ideology of freedom, which is, this is part of the American fabric, which is power to the individual and freedom to the person. When bureaucrats and politicians want to infringe on that, we should all be very skeptical of any power grab from the city, the state, or the nation. Not only that, it changes what they're supposed to be doing. They're supposed to be public servants.

In this country, we don't want dictators. We don't want someone who passes some sweeping law that changes the way you're allowed to do business or the way you're allowed to act. And that's what we found during the pandemic. People passing these laws, making these new rules in order to protect us and keep us safe. And it changed the relationship. They were no longer public servants. They were the ones, they were autocrats. They were telling people what they can and can't do. And oftentimes they weren't following their own rules. We saw that with Nancy Pelosi. We saw that with Gavin Newsom. We saw that with many of these people. They were telling us what to do and then doing the opposite and they kept getting busted for it mm-hmm wait and that's that division right and it's it's when we have that division or the divide I think it's that that's where I

kind of see this this this conversation at least that I'm always trying to ask you guys like I you know I've asked Jocko, I think, and you specifically, I'm like, where is it that we can come to try to have this third party discussion? And I'm not trying to start a third party whatsoever. I'm just saying, in your mind with a two party system, how do you even begin to like break the mold and establish a third or a fourth party I need a really powerful person who can leave the center you need a really powerful charismatic person whose character and judgment are impeccable and that person has to want to do that job is there that person I don't know

who that person is you know I do not know even like somebody you just like pull somebody out of your hat. I wouldn't know. Really? They would have to want to do that job. It's not just would they be able to do that job. They have to want to dedicate themselves to that kind of abuse, that kind of scrutiny, that kind of microscope on their life and distortion of all aspects of their life. I mean, think about what the New York Times did to distort

just a fucking coffee company, you know, right? A coffee company that is a right-wing, military supportive, first responder supportive coffee company, and they distort that. What are they going to do if you try to take over the government? What are they going to do if you try to run for president? You need a person who has an impeccable background and a person who knows how to communicate and a person who's charismatic, where people can resonate with that person. They say, this guy, this woman, this person, this person represents how I feel. For my money, it's Tulsi Gabbard. She's so, I mean, I know she's left wing, but she's so appealing to so many on the right. She could do it.

If anybody wanted to, I mean, if you really, but the system is so rigged in terms of the debates and in terms of the coverage that you would get from mainstream media. One of the more interesting things, though, is that mainstream media is no longer mainstream. No. of the more interesting things though is that mainstream media is no longer mainstream no the podcasts have so much more reach than mainstream media which is fucking crazy and it's one of the reasons why they're so angry about it like when you see like cnn starts talking shit about podcasts and getting mad about youtube shows that have uh more viewers than their than their shows yeah because your shows suck and you guys are not charismatic. You're not interesting. Your point of view is not nuanced.

I don't believe you. I don't think you have good character. I don't think you're a well-intentioned, reasonable person. And that's why your show sucks. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's one of the good things about the climate that we live in

is that you no longer really need the mainstream media. When the New York Times goes after coffee companies, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, this is where we're at. Yeah. This is the world we're living in they're distorting reality for to to support their own clan and it's it's fucked well it's fucked they've gone after you too right yeah yeah like i, how many people have gone after you because your show size? A lot. Like, and what is it that you talk about that's so fucking scary to people? Well, I have opinions and sometimes I'm wrong, you know, I don't know. Sometimes my opinions, I'm thinking them up as I'm saying it.

And I haven't really even put so much thought into it. And they think that's irresponsible. I'm saying it and I haven't really even put so much thought into it. And they think that's irresponsible. But, uh, and there's an argument for that, but that's what I do. I talk shit. I'm a shit talker. I'm drunk half the time, but I'm not going to stop doing that. You know, this is what I do. And they, they go after you because that's their job. Their job is to write stories that are going to get a lot of views. So if the New York Times has gone after me or any other people have gone after me. Well, they're putting the billboard on the car crash, right?

That's what they want to do. They're exploiting tragedy. They're tragedy merchants. There's a lot of that. And that's one thing I refuse to do, right? I'm not going to participate in the tragedy merchant business, even the negative dialogue. It's like I broker in entertain, inform, and inspire because I think I have an ethical responsibility to the veterans at Black Rifle and the veteran community to not participate in negative dialogue. The problem is is that there's a disconnect from this small

Gray thing that it is like bouncing around in my head and this fucking open hole that makes noises And yeah, like I love to talk shit. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, and I'm hypocritical. I'm a human. Yes, like Everything is a contradiction No one will survive that the purity test of not having a contradiction or a hypocritic Hypocritical view because that's actually being human if you don't you're not living the human experience You're not identifying this fucking complex, right? I think Obama said that recently and it was a very, he was trying to calm people down. It was a very interesting conversation that he was having. I forget who he was having it with, but he was like, listen, life is messy.

Humans are messy. It's not this clean, simple thing that you would like to put everything in this box. This is good, and this is bad. It's just, that's not what humans are are and that's not what life is like. And that's you're not you're not recognizing nuance. No. People are nuanced. I was I was accused of using that when I used that word a while ago.

There's like that's a that's a progressive term. Which term? Nuance. Nuance is a progressive term? No. It's just some douche shit. It's just some like idiot online or whatever. that's a progressive term. Which term? Nuance. Nuance is a progressive term? No, it's just some douche shit. It's just some like idiot online or whatever. It's like, that's a progressive term. So now you guys are limiting my speech.

And like one thing I've kind of gone through, you know, like around and around in the last like seven years, is like one thing is like, man, I'm not gonna be intimidated or bullied by some weird group of people on the internet. I don't give a fuck. Like I'm having such a great time, like on this ride, because we have such a finite existence here that there's no way I'm going to let a group of negative people, people pull me into the muck and the mire of their negative existence. It's like one of my friends sent me a

text. He's like, ah, if you wrestle with pigs, you're going to get dirty. I'm like, yeah, exactly. I'm not going to do it because I'm trying to have, uh, for a combination of reasons, right? Which is I have an ethical responsibility to my peer group of the people that have sacrificed their lives for this country. And for me specifically to go out and fucking push it. Like I get up every morning and I'm like, hell yeah, dude, I'm alive. And I'm going to get every fucking second out of this day. And I'm thinking about guys that I served with that don't have the opportunity right now to see their kids. I get to see my kids. I get to see my four-year-old, my seven-year-old every morning. I get to play with them and it makes me a better dad because they're a constant reminder that they're not there to see their kids. And it's a constant reminder for me to go out and be a good CEO or boss of the 500

plus people that work at Black Rifle and to care for people, to be a good human and to be responsible for my emotions. Because the other thing that I like to tell people is that psychology is more infectious than COVID. You spread negative shit, it's gonna spread everywhere. But if you're positive and you're motivated and you're plugged in, you're connected, and you're having an experience with people that's positive, you're gonna spread that. And I owe it to the entire peer group of post 9-11

and all the veterans out there to just fucking push every day to be as positive as I can to plug in and be connected and have real experiences and to make a positive impact in people's lives versus contributing to negative horseshit that's just like arbitrary and spinning out of control on these like random platforms and you know kudos to you because i've been listening to your show for i don't know how long and i fucking love it like you have done so much for so many veterans like their mental health giving them a person to listen to that is giving them a broader perspective on life. And I'm not trying to like, you know, placate to the crowd. I'm saying like, dude, you have helped a fuck ton of guys that I know. Like so many guys that I know are like, man, I went down and did ayahuasca

because Joe was talking about it on one of the shows and I am a hundred percent recovered. I no longer have to climb into a bottle to go to sleep. I no longer have these visions and nightmares. So what you're doing with your platform and the interconnectedness specifically related to, you know, my peer group, like, man, you're spreading positivity. You're doing incredible things. So for me, I'm replicating part of that. I'm saying, you know what? I can do incredible positive things and I can be a direct impact on the people

that have been physically and mentally altered by these wars. So when I roll out of bed, I'm like, okay, well, I'm not checking in on every JRE, but there's a few, right? I'm just trying to fucking plug in and be positive. And I think you're leading by example, whether does it, does that connect with you that you're, you're, you're a, you're a leader and a whole different level? Does that connect with you?

I think if I think about it too much, then it'll fuck with my head. So I just do what I do. But I think what, to speak to what you were saying earlier about interacting in a negative way with people and getting dragged into the pig slop, the thing about it is that you're not helping those people either. Those people that are negatively attacking you and negatively reacting,

they need love too, man. They all need attention. And a lot of those people are good people. A lot of those people who say bad things are good people they're just fucking lost they're lost and they're bitter and they're angry and they're jealous and they're sad and they don't know what the fuck to do with their life and so they say negative shit because negative shit gets people to react right negative shit gets a response. And negative shit is a form of currency in this country, in this weird climate. And I think if you engage in it and feed it, you just spread it. It's not helping them. It's certainly not helping you. What are you going to do? You're going to

get them? You're going to make some 16-year-old kid feel bad? Hey, you fucking loser. I'm a winner, you fucker. I own Black Rifle Coffee. What are you doing? Sleeping in your mom's basement, you little piece of shit? You're like, yeah, got him. Got that guy today. It's a waste. Got him.

It's a waste of time. Waste of time. It's a waste for you. It's a waste for him. You're just making enemies. You're not making friends. And people that say things like, I've said some stupid shit. If I had a Twitter account when I was 15 and someone could go back and pull it up.

Oh my God. I'd have some explaining to do. Dude, if I had a Twitter account three years ago, I'd have some fucking explaining to do. Yeah. I'm an idiot. Of course. Like that's the human experience. Yes.

That's the human experience. It's growth and to deny people growth. And that's one of the things that people love to do. They're like archaeologists for bad ideas. They want to dig up. Look what you said in in 94 look at that meme you made yeah they want to find these funny they want to dig up old dumb shit that you thought of like yeah i don't think like that anymore i don't say those things anymore you know i i believe that life is about learning and it's it's a it's a long grueling process where if you do it right, you make mistakes and you grow.

I've made a lot of mistakes, but that's also why I'm so successful is because I've taken a lot of fucking chances. And because of those chances, I've put myself out there and I've taken a lot of lumps, but I've also succeeded in a lot of ways because of that, because I'm willing to take it. I'm willing to take the chances and I'm willing to put myself out there. And that's the secret to this show is that the people that listen, I think, no, I'm not a bad person. Even though I make mistakes, I try to be a really good person.

I work hard at it. It's like a big focus of my life is to be nice and to be a good person and do the best that I can do at everything I'm doing. Man, I follow the four agreements. You ever read that Don Miguel Ruiz book? It's an interesting book. It's fascinating. I mean, I don't follow like a religion, but it's a fascinating guidebook on how to live a healthier life. And he has four agreements. And there's one of them is be impeccable with your word. I try to, and I'm not always good at this.

I fuck this up sometimes. But when I do fuck it up, I'm very aware of it. And it makes me feel like shit. I try to always say what I mean. And I always try to mean what I say The other one is don't take things personally and that's that's how I feel about people that talk shit about me Are people that write bad articles about me Mike? I'm still me. I'm exactly the same person You could try to distort me you try to paint me in some weird way. You can try to change

What I'm saying or a bit look at it in the most uncharitable way way. You can try to change what I'm saying or look at it in the most uncharitable way, but it's not going to change who I am. This is who I am. So I don't, I don't take it personally. Don't make assumptions. Don't make assumptions. Don't assume things. It's not, it's not beneficial. It doesn't help. And then always do your best. That's the one before I even read the book, I already had locked in. I always try to do my best at everything I do. I just, I'm not always successful at it. You know, I'm not always good at it, but whatever I'm trying to do at that moment in my life, I'm trying to do my best with everything, whether it's

martial arts or being a dad or doing a podcast or doing stand-up. I am always trying to do my best. And I feel like if you can follow those principles and just use those as a guide and always just try to improve upon the way that you interface with life, the way you interface with other people, the way you express yourself out in the world, you'll be on the right road. You'll be on the right road and you'll be on the right path. And I think that, I mean, I guess if I had to sit and think about it, because I don't, I really don't think about why this fucking show is successful. I just keep showing up. I really don't. I'm not exactly sure.

But I think if I thought about it too much, I would fuck it up. And I think that happens to a lot of people that get really successful. One of the things you see about people that get really famous is they go crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

I worry about that. The pressure. I worry about that for you. Yeah. Like I'm like, dude, what kind of pressure are you under? Meanwhile, I'm fine. Yeah, you look great.

I've never felt better. I am uniquely qualified. I'm uniquely qualified to deal with that kind of pressure because I put so much pressure on myself. Like any external pressure that people put on me, I'm like, that's hilarious. Like if you only knew the self-hate that I have for my own actions.

I'm the same way. I'm the same way. I'm like, dude, if you already knew, I'm my own actions. I'm the same way. I don't, I'm the same way. I'm like, dude, if you already knew, like I'm the, I'm my biggest critic. Like I don't give a shit. Like,

and for me, one, I, I love those four pieces that you just put out. Those are fucking incredible. It's a book. It's a great book. It's a really,

and it's a great audio book too. It's a narrated by Peter Coyote, the actor. It's called The Four Agreements. Don Miguel Ruiz. It's a great book. It's a really, and it's a great audio book too. It's narrated by Peter Coyote, the actor. It's called The Four Agreements, Don Miguel Ruiz. It's amazing. It's a really, really well-read, well-written book. When I've, because it's weird because I always think about that when I text you, you text me back.

I'm like, this motherfucker's got the most popular podcast in the world. Like, why is he texting me right back? It's crazy. I know. You're my friend. I know. You're my friend. I know.

That's why I reached out to you when people were talking shit about you. I'm like, I can't let that happen. Yeah. Mike, I have to have you on. Yeah. I want people to see the you that I know,

you know, the you that I knew when you were just starting your company out, when the company wasn't gigantic. Yeah. And it's crazy because the people that we know together, even like the guys that we're connected with, um, you know,

whether it's like Cam or, uh, John or all these dudes, like they know me, you know? And the, the guys that I know are always like, dude,

what the fuck? What's going on? You know? Yeah. I don't let it bother me, dude. I, I really don on? You know? I don't let it bother me, dude. I really don't. Like when I say I don't let it bother me, it's like I just tune it out

and I focus on what's really important. You know, what's really important in life is what I go to work for every day and when I focus on what's important and what's the most meaningful and impactful thing that I do, it starts with my family, right? It starts with my family.

It's concentric rings of importance. It's priorities. I got to be plugged in. I got to be good dad. I got to love my kids. I got to make sure that I'm present and I'm connected with my children. You know, I grew up in a home where my father was a logger.

He was up before daylight. He was back after sunset. And, you know, I missed him as a kid. I missed him because he's working all day. I grew up below the poverty line. And I grew up below the poverty line in the middle of remote Northern Idaho. I love my dad. He's an amazing human. But I also know I have to be present and connected with my children. I have to be. And then I have to go in and I have to be, well, first I have to be present and connected with my wife. I have to be present and connected inside my company. I have to be present and connected with my wife. I have to be present and connected inside my company.

You know, those people depend on me directly impacting their lives in a positive way. And I have to be present and connected when the product comes out. I have to be present and connected to all those things that actually make the whole fucking machine work. But I think the most thing that I'm quite literally focused on in, in trying to make

an impact, like my legacy is not something that I'm thinking about on a regular basis. You know, you get like really heady, sophisticated executives are like, Oh my, my legacy is this. Uh, I had this question today by Jared. He was right there talking to me about it. He's like, what do you want to do? And I was like, the thing that I'm most focused on is the guys that have been physically impacted by the wars. The guys, because those guys motivate me. I think about them every day. I think about one of my best friends.

His name is Clint Trial. Every day I think about one of my best friends. His name is Clint trial He's a he's a bilateral amputee and he's been physically Altered by the wars and every day his life is much different than mine and There are a thousand of him so more like thousands of him and if I'm not out there, like spreading positivity, if I'm not out there directly connected and not only connected in but emotionally connected in an authentic way, I'm not doing my best. And I'm not serving my community and being a direct impact in how we can encourage and make each other better.

Clint is my example in this, but that guy during COVID was having a hard time, and I think we brought it up on the other show. He was having a hard time getting VA appointments and things like that for his legs. And I know what I can do. I can go out and I can raise basically I can raise money and I can create capital so I can go out and directly impact because I can take that profit and I can turn it into something good. That's why I call myself a capitalistic philanthropist. And I can go out and I can buy, you know, ATV wheelchairs. I can sponsor different events where these guys can come out and shoot, you know, 3D foam targets, and we can have a social event. But those guys fire me up and they connect me into

my peer group every day where I know I can have a direct impact. What does bilateral amputee mean? A person that has lost both their legs. So above or below the knee. So Clint, for instance, has above, one above and one below. And he was in a clandestine unit. He's one of the best people that I know. Like, one of the best humans that I know. And that has nothing to do with his injury, but I know that there are thousands of people right now that have mobility issues that I can help

because I sell brown water, caffeinated brown water that is interconnected to turn what I do every day into something that I'm extremely passionate about, which is I can make a direct impact into every one of those service members' lives by not only being a positive psychological influence, by being a leader in the community, and then two, turning my profit into something that is incredibly impactful into their lives. I have no lack of motivation ever because I have an ethical responsibility to the peer group that I served with for the last 20 years that when I get up and I try to make a stupid video on the internet and roast, you know, roast coffee, I know that I'm going to turn a percentage of that profit into something that is going to be directly impactful into their lives. And that's what like fires me up and motivates me. I'm not trying to

create a sarcophagus of gold for myself, right? I can't take the shit with me. I don't care. I don't care about any of it. You know what I care about? I care about like putting on a adaptive athlete total archery challenge with a bunch of guys and getting my friends together and seeing them interact socially and like high-fiving and talking shit, you know, while shooting a piece of, you know, foam that looks like a deer in the middle of nowhere. Dude, that stuff is so incredible. And it's more important than any gold that will ever yield out of this lifetime. Because this is the stuff that's like, for me at least, like this is the stuff that life is made of, right? It's like having a conversation.

It's having a social connection with people. It's impacting their lives in a very positive way. Yeah. And that's why it's so important to me, I guess. When I talk about the company, I'm like, dude, what people get wrong is they just don't get it. What they don't get it is this isn't about me. So there's about money. It's not about growth or, you know, projecting out, you know,

financial performance. Like I don't even like finance guys. You know what I like? I like being able to hire guys to go to the Paralympics. I like to be able to like hire fucking hundreds of veterans and put them to work doing impactful, creative, amazing things. That's what fires me up. And like, not only fires me up, but it like motivates me and pisses me off all at the same time, right?

It's like, hey, we shouldn't be invading other countries and doing long drawn out, you know, military occupational wars. I'll pause myself there because I'm getting fucking carried away. I'm a little bit crazy. No, what you're saying is exactly what the New York Times should have wrote down. You guys fucked up. You guys fucked up. You missed the story.

You missed the story. You missed the story. Yeah. The real story is interesting. The problem with the New York Times is the problem with almost all publications today. They're very partisan. They have a narrative. They start off with that narrative and then they try to justify and confirm that narrative in their story.

And life is way more interesting than that. It's way more interesting. trying to stick things into these very, very confined boxes, you limit your own potential as media. You limit your own potential as in how you interface with the people that read your newspaper or the people that, whatever you're doing, whether it's a podcast or a book you wrote, you're limiting it. You're limiting it because you're not being honest. You're not being real. You're just trying to force things into some narrow perspective. And that's a problem with the New York Times.

It's a problem with the Washington Post. It's a problem with a lot of publications today. They have this idea of expectation, much like I was saying, like if I thought too much about how many people are listening to this show, if I changed who I am because I was worried about the impact or the fame or the – it's hard. It's hard to not do that. Most people give in to that. But that's what all those institutions have done. They've all given in to their audience.

They've all given in to the expectations. They've all given in to these very, very tribal perspectives. And everything is either with them or against them. Everything is either good or bad, problematic or enlightening and encouraging. And it's not, that's not real. It's not real. There's a lot of people that have direct opposite perspectives than you do on all sorts of things. And they're good people. There's a broad range of human beings in this world. Yeah. And if you try to stick them in boxes, you fuck them up.

You fuck up their message. And also, even the way you interact with them fucks it up. You know? It's the gulag man yeah let's just this interview recently the new york times of jason momoa and uh they uh they asked him about a scene in game of thrones where uh what is the the mother of dragons is his wife? He has a scene with her. He forces himself on her. He rapes her. And they asked him about that scene and would he feel differently about it today? And, you know, he's like, you know, he's taken aback by it.

And he said, like, listen, the guy is Genghis Khan. The guy's a murderer. He played Khal Drago right fucking ruthless murderer and you're talking about a horrible thing that this horrible person did he's an actor it's a fictional care so then he starts giving the guy like tourists like one word answers and then he just goes back to his hey man I just I don't like that question I don't like how you phrase that I don't like what you said he goes it's fucking icky and that's the way he said it and he ended the conversation short and good for him good for him for saying that but they're just do you think they

really felt that that that needed to be talked about no it's like you're talking to a guy as an actor who's playing good people in bad. He also plays Aquaman. You want to talk to him about being a superhero? Right. Like he's a person who portrays, if you want to have a good film, you have to have good guys and bad guys. And bad guys sometimes do horrible things. And we have a really complex fantasy series like Game of Thrones,

and you have this guy who is arguably one of the greatest warriors in any television series of all time, that kind of question is fucked because you're conflating that guy's personal morals and ethics, the ethics of society in 2021, United States of America, during the Me Too movement with a fucking barbarian in a world that doesn't even exist.

It's crazy. It's ridiculous. But that's what they do. Yeah. And they feel like they have to. And they feel like It's ridiculous. But that's what they do. Yeah. And that's, and they feel like they have to. And they feel like if they don't do that, they'll get called out by, you know, the progressives and all these people, they're going to get called out. And so they think about that when they're saying these things, they think about this when they're writing these things, they think about these things when they're having these interviews. And, you know,

there's a way, it's probably a way to have that conversation. It's probably a way to say You have to play sometimes these horrible people like Khal Drogo's like what does it feel like to play this? Barbarian like does it does it freak you out to play this guy like there's a way to say that without Being patronizing and condescending and being a shitty human being. Right. There's a way to say that. There's a way.

And maybe that guy fucked up who wrote the story or a woman, I don't know who fucked up. I don't know if it was a man or a woman who did that interview, but I thought it was fascinating the way he responded. That he just said, hey man, that fucking question sucked. It's icky.

He said it was icky. That's an incredible way to respond. It's like asking Harvey Keitel why he played Bad Lieutenant. Right, exactly. Like, what's it like to play a dirty cop? Right, right. It's like, fuck off. What are you saying?

It's a fictional character, dummy. Yeah, not only that, it's like an evil person. Yeah. You have to play them evil. I mean, are you asking, does it feel uncomfortable? Yeah, of course it does. That's why it's good.

Yeah. The reason why that movie is good is because you're watching that guy jerk off in front of those two girls while he's pulled them over and you're like, what the fuck is this?

I showed that to one of my cop friends the other day. I was like, hey man, so is Bad Lieutenant kind of like your script or what?

He's like, what are you talking about? Like, you've never seen The Bad Lieutenant. Are you fucking crazy? Oh my God. Like, how have you not seen that movie? I'm so glad that when you said Harvey Keitel, we both said Bad Lieutenant. We both said it.

Yeah, fuck, that's an amazing movie. Amazing movie and a super fucked up guy. Super fucked up guy. And by the way, there's probably a lot of cops that are like that out there. Yeah. Like, statistically, it's not even a question. You know that there are some bad cops, obviously. We know that.

Right? So, even that whole narrative of, like, well, we support law enforcement. Yeah, I support ethical law enforcement. Yeah. And the majority of them are good guys. Yeah. There's millions of interactions with the cops and civilians every fucking day. And majority of them are good guys. Yeah. There's millions of interactions with cops and civilians every fucking day.

And most of them are good. Most of them are good. Yeah. When you see a film, when you see someone filming with their cell phone, someone doing something horrific, that's the aberration.

It happens way too often. Absolutely. Yes. I'm not excusing bad cops. No. But that's not representative of most cops. That's why I support law enforcement. Also, because you fucking need them.

Yes, you do. You fucking need them. It's funny, my friend John Joseph, he's a lead singer of the Cro-Mags. I'll send you this, Jamie, too, because it's kind of hilarious. He sent me this text message today of this girl who got her bike stolen. That's not what's funny funny what's funny is on the bike it says defund the police so it says missing bike here hold on a second i'll send it to you jamie it says defund the police while it says missing bike it's like come on man I forget who I was listening to this

but this is some like this is a bit about like white woman's bike have you ever heard this? dude it's hilarious did you get it? did you get the image? look at this image, I love this image missing bike, it was taken, but look at the fucking sign on the front

defund the police it's an exercise in irony. Your bike was stolen. I don't know if that's a guy or girl. I think it's a girl or it's a very feminine man. So here's a super serious question. Super serious question.

Top three comedians outside of you. Dave Chappelle. Dave Chappelle's probably number one, if not number one of all time. He's one of the all-time greats for sure. Louis C.K., Bill Burr. That's three. I would say Joey Diaz, but he's inactive right now. Joey Diaz is the funniest guy I've ever seen.

Really? Yeah, of all time. I don't think he's the greatest joke, of all time. I think he's... I don't think he's the greatest joke writer of all time. He doesn't have the greatest specials that people can watch, but in terms of people that I've witnessed that have hit RPMs that I didn't think

were possible. So funny that comedians would sit in the back of the room and watch him perform and be falling down the ground, pounding on the floor, laughing. Joey Diaz is the GOAT. He's the greatest of the room and watch him and watch him perform and be falling down the ground pounding on the floor laughing. Joey Diaz is the GOAT. He's the greatest of all time. But you have to judge someone on their body of work.

If you judge someone on their body of work, it's like of all time, all time, I go with Richard Pryor. I think Richard Pryor all time, all time is the greatest because his body of work is incredible. And also it stands up today even if you listen to his shit from the 1970s it's still hilarious it's still really good which is hard because comedy moves on man comedy passes you know it's like the world changes the culture the climate changes and comedy moves on but richard pryor is still great and he was also like the first truly honest comedian like honest about his own flaws and his life and just and figured out a way to do it in a way

That was just fucking brilliantly hilarious that changed people's perceptions of things and Then number two is Sam Kinison and it was only for a short period of time sam kinnison was like he was the greatest for like two years right and then he just did too much coke and fuck too many strippers and it just didn't write anymore he just went crazy because sam kinnison had a heavy duty brain injury he was hit by a car yeah when he was like a little kid and his brother bill wrote a book called uh brother sam and uh it's all about sam and his life and growing up with him and about and he documents this moment

where sam got hit by a car and he had a serious brain injury and then was a wild motherfucker afterwards like uncontainable crazy and that's the guy that became Sam Kinison so literally one of the greatest comedians of all time was because of a brain injury yeah it's wild Roseanne Barr same thing hit by a car when she was 15 one of the greatest if not the greatest female comedian of all time one of the top 10 greatest all-time comedians Roseanne Barr for sure and then you got it keep going down the line is probably Bill Hicks. Cause Bill Hicks changed the way people looked at comedy that he, he had, he introduced complex concepts like psychedelic states and, and, and government propaganda and war and all sorts of other things to the,

to the conversation of comedy that hadn't existed before. But the guys that are alive now, the guys that I like to go see is Chappelle, Bill Burr, Louis CK, Chris Rock when he was active. I guess he's active again now. This is a good time for comedy. Is Louis CK back? Yeah, yeah. He's back.

Yeah, he's back. He's touring. He just released a thing, I think, two days ago. He put some newsletter out, all the places that he's touring. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That guy's a genius. He's a brilliant guy. He's just a guy who likes to jerk off in front of people.

He's fucking amazing. He's not perfect. He's not. Nobody is. No. He hit the Me Too thing at the beginning He took the first fucking The first slap of the wave You know and if it happened

Today if he got busted today Like if people came out today and said Louis C.K. jerked off in front of me He would have been like In comparison like Harvey Weinstein Bill Cosby and all these real monsters Like real scumbags Not like hey do you mind if I jerk off Right Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and all these real monsters. Like real scumbags. Real monsters.

Not like, hey, do you mind if I jerk off? Right. Okay. Yeah, well, he was fucked up. He's kinky and weird and not good. But that's humans. Yeah, but it's humans. And it's also one of the reasons why he's so funny

is like this sort of self-loathing, self-deprecating perspective on things. He's a complex human being. I love these guys. I'm like a novice comedy comedian follower. I've been like this forever because that's part of the reason why we make the dumb shit that we do

because all of us, we like to think that we're funny. Silly. Yeah, we're silly. We're stupid. It's, yeah. Yeah, we're silly, we're stupid. And it's funny, because I used to watch the British Office back in the day, because I used to only get-

Yeah, Ricky Gervais. Yeah, Ricky Gervais, like the guy's fucking- Brilliant. Brilliant, which is incredible. Super fucking smart guy too, super smart guy. Well, I watched Curb Your Enthusiasm, for instance, right? Because I love the dry like just dry dry dry humor and uh i there's no reason for me to ever interact with larry david i'm just

saying like i think the guy writes incredible shit yeah he's brilliant and when i watch you know their form of comedy like Bill Burr is fucking incredible. Like that guy. He's so prolific too. He's incredible. Like what he says and how he says it off the cuff is so, one, it's like so blue collar. It's so real. It's so, and when I say blue collar, like I'm identifying with him as a sense of like,

I feel like a blue collar guy. And it speaks to my DNA for whatever reason. It's the same with you, right? It's like any show that I've been to with you is like super fucking, it's hilarious. It's like bent over, funny, awesome. funny awesome and so i'm always trying to get the perspective of like who is the great like who are the greats in your mind like it's you know it's it's like music right it's like there's the undeniables you know there's the led zeppelins and the hendrix and you know there's there's people that are undeniable what about mitch hedberg oh he's genius he's amazing mitch is amazing because you could play him for your grandmother yeah and like his stuff was so funny and it was clean it's like he just happened like there's a few guys like that like brian regan is a guy like that right now uh jim gaffigan squeaky clean genius hilarious yeah there's there's all kinds of comedy just like there's all kinds of music and you know i've always loved the wild shit i always love people that say things

they're like what the fuck did he just say that like that's part of the fun for me part of the fun for me is the i can't believe this motherfucker just said that that's part of the fun for me right but it doesn't mean that that's all I love but if I have a choice between like going to see without other without naming names just going to see and I still love to see comedy I'll go to see the wild men I'm a wild person. I like wild things. I like wild shit. I've always liked wild shit. I like things where there's a real danger to what this person said. There's real danger. People are going to get real upset. I love when people get up and yell and leave, you fucking asshole, that's not funny. You're in the wrong place you know what about what about Seinfeld Seinfeld's brilliant

yeah brilliant comedian yeah it's it's he's a genius joke writer and an amazing performer but it's a very narrow lane

that he operates in what is this yeah who said that guy could do this right it's a it's a sign of the era in which he evolved and came up in, and he developed this style

for The Tonight Show and David Letterman and these specials where he could do. And as a stand-up comedian, he's very, very respected. I mean, people love him. As a stand-up comedian, he's very, very respected. People love him. Very few stand-up comedians have a negative thing to say about Jerry Seinfeld. As a performer and as also a guy who's worth like a fucking billion dollars, he still hits the clubs on a regular basis.

Does he really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I saw Gotham had a clip on their Instagram page real recently where he dropped in. He just popped in out of nowhere, wasn't even supposed to be there, just showed up, Jerry Seinfeld with a blazer on, telling jokes, trying out new material. Okay, you got to explain this to me, which is, so a well-known comedian, can you just drop in and bump people and get on? You can. But it's very controversial. Some comics for a long time thought that it was part of their right of being successful to be able to just show up and go on at any time they want.

I have never done that. I don't do that. If I'm going to go on, I call in advance. I tell them I'm available Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever it is. Like my time at the comedy store, I would never do that. I never just showed up and bumped people. I never liked it when it happened to me. It happened a lot.

And it was like a thing where like, hey, man, Dice Clay's here. And you just step back and let dice clay go up and he did whatever he wanted to do and then you would go up afterwards it was part of being they earned that in a lot of people's eyes um but it's you can call like i didn't and a lot of my friends who are comics who get really furious at that and they drove them nuts and they'd be like why don't you fucking call because you know maybe they'd have a dinner date. Like maybe they're supposed to go out with their girlfriend at 9 o'clock and their spot's at 8. And then all of a sudden this guy shows up.

And he wants to do 40 minutes in front of you. And you're like, ah, fuck. And then your reservations are all screwed up or whatever plans you had. Or, you know, maybe you had people that came to see you and they could only stay for a certain amount of time. And then, you they were going to see your 15-minute set at the comedy store. But instead, some famous person came and bumped you. So it's controversial. But it's also exciting. Like, if I'm sitting there, and it's fucking Tuesday night, and I see what the lineup is, because you can see the lineup.

And then all of a sudden, Dave Chappelle shows up. Like, if you're a comedy fan, you're excited. So I could see the perspective of the audience as well. And you got to kind of eat it if you're one of those comics that is there and you thought you're going to get to go up, but then Chappelle just showed up, you know, it's, uh, but you know, guys like Seinfeld, if he's going to show up, he's going to show up and just do 15 minutes, like legitimate. He's a real pro, right? He's a real pro, but some guys will show up and they'll just fucking do an hour. You know, there's they'll just fuck the whole show up and

comedy clubs will Indulge it because it's amazing to have a guy show up that Really wasn't supposed to be there, but as a superstar that sells out, you know, Dave Chappelle sells out arenas, you know? Right. And if he just shows up and just wants to do 15 minutes or an hour, whatever the fuck he wants to do, you're going to let him do it.

You just... I don't do it. Right. I make phone calls. You know, I just... I do it in advance. Every time, like, if I'm working in Austin, I call, you know, I call up in advance.

Or if I'm going to do a show, like my friend Brian Redband's show, like on Thursday nights at the Vulcan, like I'll text him. Like he knows I'm coming, you know? And if I do show up, the only way I'm going up is if like he's asking me to go up and he'll tell me when I can go out, like you go up here, I'll go up then, or I'll go close the show or whatever it is. It's just like, there's a certain amount of respect you have to have for other performers, you know, I think. And when you go, are you doing like a full hour or are you doing 15 minutes?

It depends. If I'm closing, yeah. Or if, you know, if we schedule it in advance where, you know, I know I'm going to do, you know, whatever, a half hour or whatever, you know, I'll know. I'll know when I'm going to do it. Who do you spend the most time with?

And I'm not asking you to divulge your friends, but I'm like, so when you spend time with your friends in the comedy circuit, is it Dave or is it Bill? Well, when I was at the store, I would hang around with Bill a lot, but obviously Bill's in L.A. now. Yeah. I'm out here. And Dave and I do a lot of gigs together.

We just did two nights at the MGM. We did two nights in the arena, the Grand Garden Arena, like two weeks ago. Yeah. And so I love that. Dave and I have a bunch of shows coming up too. We're doing New Orleans. We're doing Nashville. We've got some other shows that we're

thinking about booking too but i don't know what the fuck is going to happen with all these variants the variants but what happens on a joe rogan friday night with nothing to do like who who do you hang out with oh if it's friday night i don't have a show, I'm hanging out with my wife. You're just hanging out with your family? I hang out at home, yeah. You have to have balance, man. I hang out with my kids. I mean, occasionally I go to dinner with some friends and have a good time or play pool or something like that.

But you have to have family time, man. It's very important. Like you were saying about your kids and thinking about your dad, I don't know my dad. And when I was leaving today to come here, I had this moment where I cooked my kids breakfast, and we're sitting around eating, we're laughing and joking around, and we're just being silly.

And then I said I had to go to work. I said I love you. And then they both hugged me at the same time so it's like this love sandwich and I'm kissing them and I was like how did I get so lucky to have these amazing daughters and it's just like this this amazing like love fest where they're smiling and they're so happy and I'm so happy and it's just pure just pure love and affection and it's just that's so important you can't you can't just do comedy you gotta have balance you gotta have all these things you know you have to you have to spend

time with friends and loved ones and and you gotta spend time alone too man yeah gotta be alone you gotta think dear dear kids think it's weird when people recognize you do they have they caught on to this whole thing oh yeah yeah that my 11 year old fucking hates it she's what yeah she grabs me and she'll pull me away from people like if people want to take pictures. She's rude. She She does a lot like it at all she's like super confident, you know, like it's very funny they you know part of it they think it's strange because there are other friends don't have this and Like they used to when they were real little they didn't get it

Like I remember when my 13 year old-old, when she was like five, someone would say something to me on the street. She's like, did you know him? I go, no, I don't know him. She's like, well, how does he know you? I go, well, that's a complicated question. I go, I do things that are very public. I do comedy and I do the UFC commentary and it's very public and so

because of that people know me and like you see the little wheels spinning and it took years for her to kind of figure it out you know and now it's weird because she's 13 and like her friends in school are fans of the podcast and that's weird. Holy shit. You know, and so like boys, especially like, your dad's Joe Rogan? What the fuck? And it's real weird. And she's like, get over it.

He's a loser. But she laughs and she's got a good sense of humor about stuff. She's pretty funny. But I think, you know, probably they love it. They probably like the fact that I'm you know I'm not I'm not a Failure, but it's also I'm their dad. Yeah, and of the day like doesn't change anything my relationship to them It's just the my relationship with the outside world is odd. Yeah, you know, but to them

I'm I'm trying to I'm try to as much as I can I'm locked in with them. I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to, as much as I can, I'm locked in with them. I'm, I'm their dad, you know? Yeah. You're, you're switched on. Yeah. You have to be. Yeah. I remember not having a father, man. I remember that feeling. It's a fucking awful feeling. And, you know, I remember the moments, I remember moments being a young person of longing or, or good times or bad times. You remember those. And I try to really remind myself, you know, that you've got to have a good time. Yeah.

You've got to have a good time with these kids. I remember that too. Like my dad was always gone. Yeah. Like always gone. And I love him. He's amazing. He's an amazing human.

But I remember that longing as a kid yeah and I I directly plug into my children because of that and nothing else nothing else exists isn't that interesting like children of alcoholics oftentimes will never touch drinks yeah they're just like I don't want to have nothing to do with that I know what the fuck that did to my family I know what it did to my life and sometimes when you didn't have a good childhood it'll motivate you to be a good dad you know it's like bad feelings can have all sorts of different responses in a person you can respond very differently and you could choose you could decide that this is the reason why you're fucked up and you're never going to, you know, it's, oh, it's not even my fault. I got fucked over by life. And, or you can say, I'm going to be the difference. I'm going to break

this chain. I'm going to, I'm going to recognize that this is, this is what was done to me. And that is going to actually help me to be a better person. I think I've always been like that. I think I've always been like, oh, I'm going to highlight the negatives. That's part of the whole thing I think we were discussing, which is like, I'm going to highlight this shit that I don't like and I'm going to flip it around. I'm going to do 180 and go, hey, you know what? I can do better. Yeah.

And my dad was, like I said, he's a great guy. Like, I love the guy. My mom's a very, very, very wonderful person. They did the best they could. But at the end of the day, I can do better. And I think when you recognize that you can do better, you can say, these are all the things that I might have been, I think, short. And now I'm going to extend that. And the other piece is, I think, you know, going back to even Iraq and Afghanistan, which I hate to keep connecting that, but I never miss a hug.

Like I never miss a hug. And it's a constant reminder for me every day. Every day of my life, I know that there are guys out there that don't get to hug their children. So every time I hug my children, it is directly connected to my DNA, which is I have to hug them more.

I have to give them more because there's a portion of my peer group that don't have that. They don't have that connection. So I never miss a hug. I never miss a kiss. I never miss a bedtime story. I don't miss shit when it comes to that. I never miss a bedtime story. I don't miss shit when it comes to that because I think it's my ethical obligation

and my emotional obligation to my kids. And not only that, but for the guys that don't have that. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing about having experienced loss, right? Yeah. It's very, in the the weirdest most fucked up way is bad experiences and loss and heartache and tragedy it really is the thing that makes you appreciate the good things in life so much more yeah and then and now it's just now it's just the way we live life. Right. So I shifted my DNA and my

mentality to the point where I'm just like, I'm very appreciative. I'm so appreciative of everything that I have, all the people involved in my life. I never take it for granted. And that's one of the main focuses and priorities in my life, which is never take it for granted. Never take your friends for granted. Never take your family. Never take your business. All of these things have to be adjusted in priority. And that's why it makes it easy for me to just say, ah, I don't give a shit about what's going on online.

I don't even have Twitter on my phone. Good. I don't care a shit about what's going on online. I don't even have Twitter on my phone. Good. I don't care. Yeah. That's a healthy perspective. And the perspective of a person that's constantly checking up to see what other people who they don't even know what their opinions of them are. Right. You're going to fuck yourself up, man. And I know I have a lot of friends who do that all day long. Seriously? Ohians yeah especially comedians that are on the way up right they they haven't quite made it to the point where they're financially free where they you know they're they're trying to get gigs or they're trying to get television shows who's on the way up that you love oh man there's so many there's so many there's there's a there's a this is a great crop of comedians.

Like this time right now is really fucking cool because there's so many funny people. There's a girl that I'm going on the road with this weekend. Her name is Laura Bites. She's fucking hilarious. Laura is really funny and works really hard. She's awesome. Like she's going to be a superstar for sure. Laura Bight. Yeah. Laura, L-A-R-A. She's doing, uh, Wisconsin and, uh, Iowa with me. We're doing

two arenas this weekend. And, uh, I don't think she's ever done a crowd like that before either. It's going to be wild to see her get in front of like arenas are daunting. You get on stage in front of that many people and you're like, like, arenas are daunting. You get on stage in front of that many people, and you're like, whoa. How many people? It's in the neighborhood of 12,000, both shows in that neighborhood. Yeah. That's bananas.

That's bananas. Yeah, that's not even the big ones. Dave and I did 25,000 in Tacoma. Tacoma, Washington, you did 25,000. We did the Tacoma Dome. Yeah, that was crazy. And that's in the round. So you step out into the round and there's 25,000 people around you. The sound is insane. It's crazy. And you have to, I think I did that one with Ian Edwards too. You have to, the experience of it is so overwhelming. The volume of the people, the cheers and everything,

it's so overwhelming. It's like, it's hard to take in. It seems like a dream. It was real funny. Right before Dave went on stage, he looked at me, we're looking at each other and the audience is screaming. He goes, not a lot of motherfuckers get to do this. And I was like, yeah, it just seems like a dream.

It doesn't seem real. Because it's just the sheer magnitude of it all. Like I said, we did Vegas a couple of weeks ago. That was the same sort of thing, like walking out on stage at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in front of 14,000 people. And it's just wild. It's wild. It just doesn't seem real.

And I guess you could get overwhelmed by it, or you could just kind of take it in with a smile. And you've got to take it in with a smile. You've just got to be yourself. And just, you know, one is the same as a million. Just go out there and do it. Just go out and do it. Yeah. And you gotta take it in with a smile. You just gotta be yourself and just, you know, one is the same as a million. Just go out there and do it. Just go out and do it. Yeah.

Which is more difficult if you're filming a special, so you know that you're on camera, it's gonna be released on Netflix or whatever it is. Is it the same? No, filming a special, you're aware that you're filming it. It's hard. And so one of the ways I found to mitigate that is to do more shows. So I used to do two shows. Sometimes guys do one show and it's not good.

It's not good to do one show because you're too aware that it's a show that you're filming. So you're tense. Like a good example is Hicks, Bill Hicks' Revelations, which is great material. And I've seen that material live and I've seen it in different circumstances. He was much looser when it was just a comedy club and you know, he could be free. He had done like five shows that week. He was loose. He filmed this one show in a theater for HBO in England. It's not his best work. It's great material, but it's just, there's tension and like like it doesn't feel loose I like to do four shows. I do two shows Friday two shows Saturday and so that way it's like a regular weekend

So when I get on stage, I know if I fuck this show up. I got three other barrels in the chamber So I'm good So I when I walk out there I could be loose like the last special I did was in Boston That was strange times for Netflix and I did four shows, but really I only used the first show. The first show Friday night was most, yeah, there was only like one or two bits that I forgot to do that I edited in that it was, uh, or maybe one or two taglines. There was definitely one extra bit that I forgot to do that we edited in that was like from a first show Saturday night, but most of the special was the first show because I was so loose because I knew I had all these opportunities to do it. So I didn't, I didn't

feel tense. So that's the key and it costs extra money to do it that way. But if you can afford it, I think that's the way to do it because you just want to make a show where people come to see it make it feel as normal as any other show that you do and that's hard to do it's hard to be in the moment when you know there's a camera on you right yeah i mean when you're focused on each and every because when you're rehearsing are you rehearsing through shows are you rehearsing no individually are you rehearsing through shows? Yes. Are you rehearsing individually? No, it's always through shows.

It's always through shows. Always shows. You don't really rehearse outside of shows. One thing I do do is I listen to recordings and I write. So I'll write out bits. Even though I've done the bits a hundred times, I'll write them out just so that they're just like cemented into my DNA.

They're just locked in. Do you record yourself doing them to yourself? I record all my sets. You record all your sets? Every set I do, I have on my phone. If I go through my voice recordings, these are all my sets over the last few months. So I record all of them. That way, if there's a new line because a lot of times like I'm in the middle of something and I have a new line and out of nowhere it comes out and that line becomes a whole new bit

so are you going back through and you're listening to every one of your bits from start to finish no not always just to just get that like sometimes I'll do a show and i'm like that was fun that was a good show but nothing happened that i need to review but every now and then like maybe every third show some whole new subject will come up or a whole new interaction will come up a new pathway to a bit a new direction and so I'll listen to that and that's one of the ways that it becomes new material but Did you learn that on your own is that self? No, that was taught that by a guy named Mike Donovan There was a stand-up comedian in Boston who was a big-time Local comic who was a really good guy who was really good at like talking to open micers and this is back in

the day where he would bring a fucking tape recorder on stage like a set recorder and record all his shows and i was like you record all your shows he's like yeah he goes you never know it goes one day you might say something and if you don't record it you're never going to remember it and that could be like a way better way to do your bit or a new way to do your bit. Or you might just have an idea out of nowhere that pops into your head and you say it. And you're in the moment when you're on stage. A lot of times you forget what you said. And then you'll go back and listen. You're like, holy shit.

Like out of nowhere, out of the gods, the muse just bestowed upon you a new idea. Most disciplined comic you've ever met all the great ones are disciplined right all of them all of them work hard all of them are constantly doing sets it's part it's like it's discipline but it's also passion it's like it's easy to be disciplined if you love what you do right it's like Mike Tyson said this once. He goes, real discipline is doing the thing you hate but doing it like you love it. The problem is comedy you love all the time. So it's easy to do it like you love it because you do love it.

Like discipline is like running miles with a fucking weight vest on. Nobody loves doing that. That's real discipline. Like discipline is getting up for that 6 a.m. yoga loves doing that. That's real discipline. Discipline is getting up for that 6 a.m. yoga class. That's discipline. The discipline involved in comedy is just focus and just dedication and constantly doing it. But every time you do it, if you're doing it right

and the audience has a great time, you get this positive feedback and you feel amazing. That's the craziest thing. I was talking to a friend of mine once about this. I was like, imagine how crazy it is to live your whole life and never kill. You never get on stage and kill. You don't know what that feels like. So many people, they live their whole life. They never crush. They never walk on stage and do an hour and have the whole audience just crying and laughing. Thank you. Good night.

They never feel that. Right. And if you're a comic and you do get to feel that, it's your duty to continue. It's your duty to figure out how to maximize that. You have hit this rare air that so few humans ever get to experience. If you thought about how many people alive today are professional comedians, it might be 500. 500. High point. Yeah. In this country? Yeah. Might be 500. Legitimate professional comedians that tour and people want to come out to see them. I mean, there's a few, there's more trying it. There's more that get paid every now and then it's probably a couple thousand, but like the, the like real comics that can headline at a comedy club, it's 500. Okay. How many can sell out a theater? Less than a hundred. How many can do an arena less than 20 less than 20 less than 20 yeah

less than 20. out of 330 million people in this country there's less than 20 people that could sell out an arena that seems crazy to me because i i think when I look at comedians there's probably well I mean I guess there's probably 20 that are still active that I'm thinking about that I'm like yeah yeah I would go and see them for sure guys I can sell on an arena you got like Sebastian Bill Burr yeah Dave Chappelle he gets sketchy it gets catchy you start just feeling like, who else can do an arena? How many guys?

Who else wants to? Well, they all want to. Everybody wants to do these big places. Because it's a wild feeling, man. When you show up and there's a traffic jam and you realize, oh my God, there's a traffic jam to get to see my show. I guess what I'm referring to is like,

who has made the transition to like more movie star or Kevin Hart yeah yeah he's the biggest like Kevin Hart can do 50,000 people oh fuck are you kidding me yeah he did a show in Philadelphia where he filmed his Netflix special it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 people in the crowd. Yeah. Holy shit. Dude, I had no idea. Have you ever seen the video of it? Yeah, of course. Like I saw that Netflix special that he did.

Well, he's done a few, but there's one real recently when they did a scan of the crowd where you see him on stage and you see the whole crowd. You're like, look at this. That right there. Look at that. That's fucking nuts. The first time I met you was actually in boise idaho oh yeah that's right yeah yeah that was an arena that was an arena yeah that was a big ass place yeah because uh that fucking place man look at all the levels that is fucking nuts that's fucking nuts and he murdered in front of all these murdered. Yeah, that guy is so incredibly talented Well, he's so an ambitious and so disciplined to you want to talk about the most disciplined comic

That's he's he's right up there really most discipline of all time. Yeah, man, but he does everything he's got multiple businesses He runs simultaneously is constantly involved in different projects and doing voiceover work and doing films and doing stand-up and like he does everything He's a legit like multi-dimensional entrepreneur How many guys like that exist there's one one there's one art there's one anybody else can sell that many tickets Maybe Chappelle could It's hard to say like Dave and I have talked about doing a football arena. We were laughing around about it.

We did one of these big crazy shows and sold out in eight minutes and we were like, how many fucking people can we do? And we were laughing and I said, dude, because this is in the middle of the pandemic too, I go, let's go to Miami where everyone's wide open and let's do a fucking giant football arena. You guys could there's no doubt him and him and i together could sell a lot of tickets that would

be a lot of fun but that would be incredible yeah like that'd be fun if you guys went to miami you guys could do it here too right yeah we should probably we could probably do it in texas well we did a lot of shows in texas he and I did Stubbs when everything was completely shut down and we COVID tested the entire audience. So we would COVID test like 700, 800 people. They'd get there at like 6 o'clock for an 8 o'clock show and we'd fucking test the shit out of everybody. And this is when everything was like completely locked down

and we were doing these outside shows at the Stubbs Amphitheater. And it felt really special because it was in the middle of everything being completely shut down and we did it safe we like COVID tested all the comics we COVID tested the entire audience and then everybody was outside which was safe and it was pretty fun it was really fun really exciting but we had done like arenas before that right so that was like a thing that we were doing like just in the middle of the pandemic just just to be active again like i hadn't done i wasn't going to do any stand-up until it was over i was like i'm gonna

ride this out i did seriously yeah i did one weekend in houston in like july and i was like it's too sketchy the problem was like hou Houston was open and everybody was fine with it, but I was like, I don't want to get anybody sick. That was my thought. I was like, I don't want to. I'm not worried about me, but I was worried about giving it to other people. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to lay off until this is over. But then Dave contacted me and is like, hey, let's do some shows.

Let's do some shows. And I was like, well, it is outside. Yeah, okay, as long as we test everybody. And so I was in. And then once I started doing it again, I was like, okay, I'm in. I'm back. So how did you and Dave hook up? Like how did you connect?

We've been friends for, I met Dave when he was 19. Seriously? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was 24 and he was 19 or somewhere in that range. In New was 19. Seriously? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was 24 and he was 19 or somewhere in that range in New York city. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, we knew each other from back then and, you know, we knew each other from the clubs. And then I was on episode one of Chappelle show accidentally. That was an accidental moment. I was walking down the street in New York and I see Dave with a fake mustache on

holding up a box of ribbons and I was like what are you doing man and he goes oh hey Joe you want to be on my show and I go I only have like an hour and Bobcat Goldthwait was actually the director and I was like what's up dude I said hi to Bobcat

I'm like what are you guys doing and he's like we're doing this thing so Dave was with this crazy fake mustache was hanging out handing out ribbons for the best New York boobs like New York boo this is really ridiculous moment and that was god I guess it was like 2001 or something like that whatever year the Chappelle show came down on you, so I've known him forever. Yeah, I've known him from the comedy store.

He's an amazing person. He's an amazing guy in that he's like a super kind person. He's really like genuinely kind. He's nice to everybody. I mean, he's a genius and he's eccentric and all that stuff, but he's a genuinely kind person. Well, the crazy thing is that, and whether or not he knows it or not, right,

which is the Chappelle show was shared and watched so many times, like we wore those DVDs out. Oh, yeah. Downrange. Greatest sketch show of all time, and it only lasted two seasons. Greatest sketch show of all times. Of it only lasted two seasons. Greatest sketch show of all times. Of all times.

Of all time. Yeah. Like everybody that I knew in the, in, in special forces, the entire special operations community, it's like they knew every fucking line of every episode. Like you want to to know quotable material

in the special operations community? It's The Chappelle Show. Hands down, that shit was the single most shared comedy ever in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's iconic. Purely. It was iconic. You know, it was a real problem for him after a while because he would go do stand-up and people would yell out,

I'm Rick James, bitch! They would just want to yell it out. Like, people just wanted to yell it out. It was almost like a storm that had to pass. Fuck your couch. You know how many times that has been quoted to me? Oh, my God. Yeah.

I'm rich, bitch! Yeah. There were so many different lines from those series. Yeah. It was incredible. Yeah, there was so many different lines from those series. Yeah, it was incredible. Yeah, that guy, he came to El Paso a few years ago, and it was right after the Chappelle show, and so he was just kind of doing some small, really, really small venues.

And he linked up with Matt and Jared, and there was only like 100 people in the audience. And he linked up with my business partner Matt and Jared, and there's only like 100 people in the audience. And like, he linked up with my business partner, Matt and Jared, and they like hung out all fucking night. They just hung out with them all night. And just like, yeah, it was like, it was three dudes, vets, and he was just like super cool. So nice and genuine.

And everybody was like, dude, this guy's like the coolest guy in the world. And he's the Chappelle Show. Like yeah how is this even possible that this happens that i can hang out with this guy and he's cool i know but that's how he is that's just who he is right legitimately who he is you know he just happens to be really famous he just happens to be famous. The guy I want to meet is well, I mean, besides you obviously, is well, I've already met you. He's Bill Burr. Oh, I can introduce you.

Next time Bill comes to Austin or any time where you're around I'll set it up. I'm always around. He's an easy guy to get along with too. Is he really? He's fun. He'll talk shit to you too. What the fuck? What is that? Caffeinate Mars?

Yeah. Some stupid shirt I made. He'll just start talking shit. He's a fun guy to be around. His fucking talk shows when he's on and he just goes off on some shit. On some late night talk show? Yes. He flips them on their head.

Oh, he dumps them and slams them down. It's incredible. Yeah. Like when you look at what he does to them and, uh, and they're so, um, I don't know. I don't know. Do you ever watch those at all? Talk shows? Yeah. No, no, they're stupid. Well, you know what it is? It's like, it's an antiquated form of expression. It's not a good way to get ideas out. You have seven minutes or whatever it is in between commercials. The guy who's the host doesn't get to pick who's on. So it's not like they're really interested in whatever fucking album this guy has or whatever television show this guy has. Usually they don't even give a fuck.

So they're not really geared in or connected to what what what the subject matter is they're just it's not a good way to do it i went back and watched a bunch of carson carson shows yeah it was like totally different it's a weird world it's a weird world yeah well here's the thing about carson and this is the thing that you could apply even to like in a broad sense to our parents and our parents parents people haven't been around that long right you know we like to think that people have been around for so long this is great history and there is there's like thousands of years of history and that seems like a long time. But when you go from our parents to my grandparents came over on a boat, they all came over from Italy. And my father's side, my

grandfather, my father's side came over from Ireland. I'm three quarters Italian. So most, most of the people came over from Europe at a time where the Great Depression was going on and nobody knew what the fuck was over here. They weren't watching YouTube videos. They're savages. Right. They just got on a boat and made their way across the fucking ocean, across the Atlantic. They land on the East Coast and they set up shop and move into these Italian neighborhoods and Irish neighborhoods and a bunch of criminals, a bunch of barbarians. They're wild people, just wild people.

And they were very tame in comparison to their grandparents who literally rode around on horses. Right. Their parents rode around in a time where there was no fucking cars. They were on horses. Before them, there was people that tried to make their way across the fucking country and they were killed by Native Americans or Or they killed the Native Americans. Or they gave them smallpox. And what happened before that? Before that, they were living under

the rule of the King of England. Before that, they were running from barbarians. Before that, Genghis Khan was running shit. Before that, they didn't have gunpowder. It's a short period of time where human beings have been around. So when it comes to mass media, if you go to the Johnny Carson show or the Jack Parr show or something like that and you try to watch those things, you have a time machine. And you're literally looking back into an encapsulated moment in the history of the human race that wasn't that long ago but was so different so different than the way we live today bell bottoms and they're all smoking cigarettes yes the cigarettes is like the most shocking thing crazy these dudes are smoking chain smoking out here yeah and it's it's shocking like And that's what killed Johnny Carson. Yeah.

At the end of the day. Yeah. He had a good life though. He lived to like, he was like 80 years old. He was playing golf in like California. I don't know, it was so good. He gave all his money away to chicks.

That was the Eddie Murphy bit. Eddie Murphy had a bit about Johnny Carson losing all his money in divorces. I don't know how good it was. Well, I mean, eventually that's what's going to happen to me. I have a wife and two daughters.

I think it's a public thing. No, when it happens publicly, like a guy like Carson loses hundreds of millions of dollars in divorces. Like, don't you think it's weird? Don't you think it's weird that people are always shocked by human experience? Like when I say that,

it's like, Oh my God god you mean adults like to fuck each other that's amazing what it is it's funny because it's private yeah it's like it's all behind closed doors you shut the door and lock it what's going on that house are they fucking yeah they do what i do yeah there's this preoccupation with like things that are inherently human it's like like, yeah, yeah. You guys are fucking, like,

I always, I always find that out. Interesting. In the context of people that I know, like, can you believe so-and-so is fucking so-and-so? I'm like, yeah,

yeah. They're people. Yeah. With, uh, genitalia. So one fits in the other. It's like a,

you know, a plugin. That's the way it fucking works. Yeah, I can totally believe that. It seems so normal. It seems so normal. It would be weird if you're like, can you believe that guy fucked that TV?

I'd be like, oh my God, yeah, I'm super shocked. That's weird. Don't fuck a TV. That's why it's weird when a president gets busted or some, like Andrew Cuomo's now busted for sexual harassment. They should be shipping prostitutes out to these guys. busted or some, you know, like Andrew Cuomo is now busted for sexual harassment. Right. They should be shipping prostitutes out to these guys.

Like, keep them calm. Jesus Christ, he's groping state troopers. Like, help him. He's trying to run this state. Somebody go over there and suck that guy's dick. He's trying to balance the budget. We used to always talk about that it's like i i probably shouldn't even talk about this we used to always talk about this i was like hey man can't we like if we're going to invade a country like wouldn't it be cool if we just had like the

entire um an entire section dedicated to servicing our needs, wouldn't that be great? Because then we would be like less hostile just in general. You know? But it was super fucked up. Robots. Robots. Like AI fuck dolls. Yeah. But that's the future.

That's what's scary to me. AI fuck dolls? Yeah, that one day we're going to have artificial human beings that will do anything you want, so you're not even going to have to be nice. One of the things about men and women is that we have to be nice to each other. If the women are mean, you don't want to be around them. If the men are assholes, the women don't want to be around us.

We have to figure out how to be nice to each other so we like to be around each other so that we could enjoy each other's company and eventually to each other so we like to be around each other so so that we could enjoy each other's company and eventually enjoy each other's pleasure but if you don't have to if you just have like some fucking robot that looks hot as shit and you go over your you know your friend's house and he's got some robot wearing lingerie that's like mopping up his floors right like you could do whatever you want you walk by and spit on her and she's like thank you thank you yeah you're so nice not good no good for the human race i don't think it is no i don't think it's good at all for the human race what balances us yeah and that's what puts us in competition with one another yeah ultimately forces us to be better at some circumstance in

some ways and the balancing act between the yin and the yang the male and the female the the feminine the masculine that's that trying to figure each other out and balancing each other out is like ultimately what elevates the human race it's it's a constant evolution based on wanting to fuck each other is that what you're telling me that's part of it but also wanting each other to like each other yeah and then growing closer to each other by being nice to each other and recognizing that there's like, there's deep pleasure and satisfaction and love in like having someone that really likes to be around you and you really like to be around them and you actually give each other love and companionship.

And when you see each other, you want to hug each other. It's a beautiful thing. And some people never each other, you want to hug each other. It's a beautiful thing. And some people never get that, man. They never get it. They never get that their whole life. From the cradle to the grave, they live their whole life without anybody really loving them and really wanting to fuck them and touch them and be around them.

They never experience that. They're angry. Those people are called internet trolls. Politicians Dude We've done like Three hours and fifteen minutes Seriously Yeah it's already 4.30

I love this man I love this too Hey I'm glad you came in Thank you so much I'm glad we talked I'm glad we got a chance And people that Have an idea of you

Now I think they have a better Better one Yeah they know that I'm a fucking idiot Me too Good night everybody Bye an idea of you, now I think they have a better one. Yeah, they know that I'm a fucking idiot. Me too. Good night, everybody. Bye.