The Joe Rogan Experience - #1711 - Patrick Bet-David

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

Patrick Bet-David is an entrepreneur, author, and founder of Valuetainment: a multimedia company focusing on business and personal development. He's also the host of "The Bet-David Podcast."

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hello Patrick. How you doing? Very good. Very nice to meet you. I enjoy your program. I watch it all the time.

Thank you. I watch it all the time on YouTube. Really? Yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good at interviewing people. I really enjoy your questions, the way you handle your interviews. So I looked at a lot of your stuff, and I was like, I want to talk to this guy.

Very cool. I've been following you for a while, and I listen to everything you talk about pretty much. So I was telling you earlier how necessary you are. You're pissing a lot of the right people off today, which is good. I'm not trying. I'm not trying to piss anybody off. Just being me. We're glad you are.

I know you're just being yourself, but we're glad you are. Well, thank you very much. I'm glad you to piss anybody off. Just being me. We're glad you are. I know you're just being yourself, but we're glad you are. Well, thank you very much. I'm glad you are out there too. The world needs strong voices, you know, people who have character and discipline and people who have carved their way through this life. It's important. It's an important thing for young people in particular to see coming up that you can be a person of character and discipline and you can get far in this business with drive and you can get far in life with drive in all businesses really.

Do you think people can miss that? Like, do you think people can, maybe that was valued 50 years ago, but not today because they're confused today? You think that can happen? I think people are still the same. There's still the same characteristics that make up a human being still exist, but there's still the the same characteristics that make up a human being still exist but there's pathways for excuses that exist today that didn't exist before there's pathways for victimhood there's like you can have uh there's credit in victimhood social credit and you know well i didn't get a break or i didn't get this or these rich people have that or these successful people have all the breaks. And there's a lot of clout in actually being a person who has been either denied or the pathways are unavailable to them. So they get to bitch about it and complain about

it. There's a sense of, instead of dealing with the hand that you've gotten and trying to move forward in a positive way and trying to do your best with what you got. Because everybody has a different starting point in life. Life is not fair in terms of like. No question. No question. But some people look at what they got and they go, okay, this is what we got. Let's figure out how we move forward. And other people go, well, other people have this, and I don't, and other people have that,

and fuck them. We need to tax them, and we need to do this. There shouldn't be any billionaires. There shouldn't be any rich people. You can live off of $50,000 a year, and then all that money would feed everyone and house everyone in the world. But they don't understand motivation. They don't understand.

There's this idea of equal outcome. Like everyone should have an equal outcome. But there's not an idea of equal effort. Like equal effort is not a real thing. Hasn't that been proven that doesn't work though? Like that's been proven experience multiple places and we know it doesn't work. But it's still something that's being taught in universities. It's Marxism and that kind of leftist thinking is very common in universities. And the idea is that it hasn't been done right.

And what you could say that would argue for that is like, well, democracy, you know, I mean, obviously the Greeks had democracy and the Romans had democracy. But it eventually fell and turned into a dictatorship, right? But America was the first legitimate democracy that actually succeeded and still exists currently, right? We were the first that sort of got it right. Maybe this could be the first socialist government that works. Maybe these young people. Yes, yes. AOC or whoever it right. Maybe this could be the first socialist government that works. Let by that noble leader. Maybe these young people. Yes, yes.

AOC or whoever it is. She would be wonderful. By the way, here's a question for you. I'm curious to know what you say to this. What are the chances that she'll be president one day? Very good. Very high. I agree.

Very high. What's high? 20%? Yes, at least. Yeah, at least 20%. I'm with you there. She's very charismatic, very intelligent. People love her.

Yeah. She's got like, what, 12, 13 million followers on Twitter? Something like that. And you figure in the next 10 years, that's probably going to be at 100 million, 150, 200 million. And that mindset's going to be bought by the younger generation. And gradually, we get to a point where somebody's going to elect her. And if an AOC gets elected, then what happens to U.S.? We'll find out.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? Because we would actually be able to say maybe 80% taxes are not good. Well, I don't think it would ever get to be 80% taxes because the people that would get her into the position to be like, you're seeing compromises already, right? You're seeing compromises. If you're a person that pays attention to politics, you already see that she's sort of compromising her opposition to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and the people that are at the head of the party. They've already sort of started corrupting and making deals. Like this hard line leftism is tempered by this need to be a part of this very powerful political party. And that's kind of what happens, it seems, to every politician once they get into office.

That's what happened to Obama, right? Obama was the guy that we all thought was going to change the world. Like here you have this guy, he is the son of a single mother. He comes from very humble beginnings. Relatable. Very relatable. Likeable. Super likeable, super intelligent, very articulate.

And he has all this hope and change website, and in the website speaks very specifically about empowering whistleblowers, right? Helping whistleblowers. Meanwhile, when he gets into office, one of the worst administrations ever at punishing whistleblowers. I mean, that's then deletes that cause that what cause it I think it's compromised once you get in there you realize first of all all these ideals that you have if you really did have Have those ideals if those were real and they were not just political Talking points that allowed people to love him if you really did have those ideals once you get in there and you find out Mr. President have a seat We're gonna tell you how fuck the world really is and they read to you all the things that are going on in the world, all the different operations that are currently being underway. You get to see all the threats from around the globe. What do you think changes people more?

You think it's more a guy who grows up with, let's just say, not money, but he's popular and he likes power, and then eventually he has certain values and principles he lives by, then a guy with money comes and tries to buy him, he's willing to flip. Or a person who's left alone, they go make their money, and they make their independent money, they're millionaires, decamillionaires, whatever, billionaires, and then later on, a person comes in and says, I'm going to give you the most powerful position out there, but I want you to change your way of thinking. Which one do you think is more likely to change? I don't know if that makes sense or not. So for example, think about Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan or John F.

Kennedy or a Lincoln, let's just say, or a Trump, right? One thing those, say the three have in common, I don't know about Lincoln, but the three have in common, Reagan, John F. Kennedy, and Trump. They all had money. It's not like they were struggling with women or money, right? Reagan, you know, Mary Jane Wyman, John F. Kennedy. I think at the end of the day, he was with, what, three or four women in his lifetime, whatever the number is. He's been around. He's had his fun. His father set the example. He had a great time. So to him, what party has he not been invited to? Or Trump, he did what he did. Then he gets into a position of power.

Then the real power people behind closed doors, let's just say you and I don't know about, the quiet power people. They come in and say, Reagan, Trump, Kennedy, I want you to change the way of thinking. Don't push Federal Reserve too much. Don't push gold standard too much. Let's change. Who's more tempted to change The power people or the money people. I think it's I don't think you know what I'm asking I do know you're asking but I don't think it's that clean, you know, I don't think there's like Specific categories for human beings. I think the variables are much more extreme I think there's this the spectrum is very broad.

And a guy like JFK clearly had some very strong opinions about positive changes that he could make to this country. Very dangerous opinions. Like he wanted to get rid of the CIA. He wanted to get rid of the NSA. He wanted to get rid of the Federal Reserve. There's a lot of things that JFK wanted to do that were very, very dangerous to the powers that be, what you would call the deep state. Every year, or every four years rather, there's a new president, or at least we elect a new president, or they have a chance to have a second term. The people that are in power at the CIA, the FBI, all these places, they're in power for a long time. That's a long time of running. Long time of running things. Do we know who those guys are? Do we

kind of have an idea who those guys are? I want to know. Really? It's like Baltimore. You want to say the name? Don't say Baltimore. Don't say it. I don't know, man. I think you need intelligence agencies. I think it's a controversial opinion too, I think you need intelligence agencies. I think it's a controversial opinion too. I think you need people around the world that are monitoring terrorist cells that are paying attention to, you know, rogue states that are paying attention to dangerous places like China. You need information. You need intelligence agents. I'm not an anti-intelligence agency person. I think people that are naive I think I have friends that have worked for the CIA and I've had long conversations with them

Yeah, what it's like in private There's dark shit in the world There's there's there's some terrible places in this world and you got to pay attention to all that and you have to have Contingency plans and you have to have preparationency plans, and you have to have preparation. It's not my world, right? That's their world. I know there's a need for those people. I talked to the former chief disguise officer.

She's the one that makes all the Jonah Mendez. Disguise officer? Disguise officer. Really? Literally. She goes in. Her job is to make your face identical to you. She puts it on, comes up to you, says, oh, my gosh, you look just like me.

That good? So she did this to President Bush, the first one. And she puts on the mask, goes up to him. He cannot believe he thinks it's a human being looking just like him. And then she takes off the mask. She's the chief disguise officer. President Bush W? No, the senior. Really?

Yes. They were that good back then? They were that good back then. And there's a picture of it, actually. If you pull it up, you'll see her holding it up. Oh, God, find that. Yeah, if you put Chief Disguise Officer Jonah Mendez, President Bush. Yeah, that right there, she's holding the mask, and she was, yeah, masks of the lady, and she's showing it. So they were able to make masks of anybody else. And one day, her and I are interviewing, I'm interviewing in DC,

and I said, what makes a good CIA agent? And I'll never forget what she said. She said the craziest thing. She says, look, I said, do you want the guy to be charming, charismatic? What do you want it to be? She says, we want him to be charming, charismatic, attractive, sense of humor, all of that. The only thing we don't want him to have is the following. If they end up saving the free world of another war, they don't need to brag about it to nobody else. Pretty crazy. Just keep your mouth shut. Just keep your mouth shut.

It's hard to find people like this. It kind of goes back to what you're saying. And then I followed up and I asked the question. I said, I don't know if I'm comfortable with a president because typically anybody that becomes a president, what do they have in common? You have to be super competitive, right? You have to be a true believer in something, set of values, whatever those may be. And you have to be somebody that's a good salesman. I mean, if you don't know how to sell, you're not going to be a president. We've only had 46 of them. 45 of them were great salespeople, if you think about it, right? Okay. So you become a president, and then when you become a president, it's like,

oh, hey, you're president. Guess what? What? Let us show you Area 51. Let us show you all this stuff. Let us show you, oh my gosh, he goes home at night, sleeps, and says, babe, I saw an alien today, babe. Would you want the president to get access to every single thing that ever happened in the history of America the last however many years? i don't know about that it's a good question because they're elected by essentially it's a like a personality contest like who whose personality do you like the most yeah you know though the quote who do you want to have a beer with right that's that's what it's always about if you're gonna have a popularity contest every four years you how much can you tell that person? I would imagine it would take a long time to get the trust of the people that are in the highest of high positions, the people in the

smoky rooms that Bill Hicks talked about. I don't know. I don't know if you should tell Trump where the fucking aliens are. I don't think so. I feel like he would tell everybody. He would tell everybody. I'll tell you what, I would tell everybody. He would host a dinner, half a million dollars, tonight I'm revealing the first alien. Let'll tell you what, I would tell everybody. He would host a dinner, half a million dollars, tonight I'm revealing the first alien. Let me take that back, because if someone really did take me there and said, I'll show you, but you can't tell anybody, I think I'd keep my mouth shut. You know why? This is why.

Because if I don't keep my mouth shut, I don't get to see it. And the world stays exactly the same. But how do we know that, though? But hold on a second, the world stays exactly the same. But if I do, at least I know. At least I know and I can operate as I know. So I might not be able to tell people, but at least I can operate from the position that I know for a fact there is life somewhere else, whether it's from another dimension,

whether it's from another galaxy. Well, that's personal. But the risk is the others don't know. Yes. Whether you're going to go home and tell your wife or your best friend or your family. They're going to watch everything you do for the rest of your life. That's the point. But they're already doing that.

Yeah. But at this point of the game, do you really want everybody to know everything? I don't know. By the way, even the one only president has the ability to press the button. I mean you know There's gotta be a couple You saw what happened with Milley recently What do you think about that

Well I think technically Is that treason What is treasonous If you're contacting a general Of an opposing army And you're saying I'm worried That our leader might do something, so I'm going to consult with you rather than consult with him. I think what you're kind of

saying is you don't respect the commander in chief of the army. I mean, it depends. I don't know Trump. I met him once. He has normal size hands, by the way. Really? Yeah. Okay. They're normal. So that conspiracy's out. Horseshit.

Oh my gosh. I have pretty big hands. I shook his hands. You do have pretty big hands. I? Yeah. Okay. They're normal. So that conspiracy's out. Horse shit. Oh, my gosh. I have pretty big hands. I shook his hands. They were normal hands. You do have pretty big hands. I got to tell you. They were very normal. Good.

I was like, how you doing? Well, shout out to Trump's hands. I was doing the UFC, and he came over and touched my shoulder. I looked up, and it's fucking Trump. I'm like, hey, how are you? What's going on? Have you ever invited him or no? No.

No. You wouldn't want to do it? That's a little heavy. Really? That's a little heavy. Really? That's a little heavy. That comes with a lot. There was an opportunity during the election, and I was like, I'm not getting involved. To have him on?

Yeah. I'm not helping. I'm not helping anybody. I didn't like either choice, to be honest with you. Wow. I didn't like either choice. I voted for Joe Jorgensen, who was the Libertarian candidate. Just between us, she's not a great marketer.

I didn't think she was going to win. I didn't think she was going to win. I didn't think she was going to win. So your vote was just like, look, it's more like a values vote. This is what I'm standing for. The Biden thing was nonsense. We all knew it was nonsense. What's happening now is exactly what I thought was going to happen. And this is what I said.

I said, leading up to this, I said, he's compromised. He's got mental issues. I mean, we know that he had two aneurysms before. He had massive brain surgery, like very, very dangerous brain surgery. He's got, you know, he's old, 78 years old, and he's not doing well. They have control of him. They tell him questions to answer. He's been pretty open about it, unfortunately. 81 million people disagree with you. He was the most popular president of all time. I mean, you have to realize, bigger than Kennedy, bigger than Reagan. Reagan won 49 out of 50 states.

I think 81 million people didn't want Trump to be president anymore. I think that's what it was. You think that's what it was. So they're voting against. Yeah, I think a lot of people would have won if they were in that position. I don't think it was Joe Biden that won. I think Tulsi Gabbard would have probably won i think uh against him bernie sanders would have been a tough sell because so many people equate him with communism you know even though he's a what he would call a democratic socialist and his plan to implement taxes which it's really what his big plan was was a very small percentage of trades like uh you know like these speculations that stock brokers do, this very small percentage, less than a penny per trade, and that it was all going

to equate to a large amount of money. I don't know if that's... You would be the guy that I would talk to about whether or not any of that shit makes any sense at all, but would have had a hard time winning I think and I think that's one of the reasons why the Democratic Party didn't want Him to be the candidate. That's why they sabotaged him in 2016 times Yeah twice and he had a show by the way. I think he Whether you like Bernie or not or agree with his philosophies I don't agree with his philosophies, but if there is a person that I believe that believes in what he's talking about

for the last 50 years that's been consistent, it's gotta be Bernie. Doesn't mean you have to agree with the guy, but the guy, you gotta respect the guy that's aligned with his values and principles. So he's not flip flopping trying to convince Detroit then goes to Chicago, then goes to this audience. But Tulsi, when Tulsi called out Hillary,

that was just a beautiful thing. Amazing. Unbelievable. Amazing. I thought she would have had a little bit more momentum, but who is going to back her up? I mean, you got to realize at this point of the game, who is the ideal candidate for the left? She would be ideal, but they can't control her and they don't want to have anything to do with her. She's too dangerous. would be ideal, but they can't control her and they don't want to have anything to do with her. She's too dangerous. Well, she also has so many positive qualities. That's what's crazy. Like, if you really are just looking for someone who's a great candidate, who on paper is better than her? She's a veteran. She's deployed overseas on two separate occasions, work with a medical unit.

She's a congresswoman for eight years. I mean, she's got impeccable character. She's a great spokeswoman. You couldn't get any better. She's a person of color. You couldn't get any better. Great communicator. I love the way she communicates her message. She's got fantastic skills just as a politician. She's got great character. She's got everything that you would want. Joe, what's the biggest difference between DeSantis and Trump? Well, DeSantis is bombastic. He's not attacking people and insulting people, so he's not as polarized. Okay.

When he says things, if you notice his tone, it never goes too high and it never goes low it's very steady and short answers like to the point uses a few amount of words yes yeah it's um they try to make him like a if trump didn't exist de santis would be a a massive star if he didn't exist, you know, if there wasn't this automatic rejection of anything right and strong, anything that's on the right, that's that's strong and that has these these views that are in opposition of a lot of what's going on right now in this country in terms of giving away power to the state, which is for some strange reason. The left in this country over the last year and a half, two years during the pandemic has decided that they trust the state and they're willing to give up power to the state and willing to give up power to pharmaceutical companies and allow things to happen that they would have never allowed to happen in the past. I think a lot of that is because of this opposition to Trump. And their opposition to Trump, I think, made them crazy. It made the polarization in this country so much more extreme than we've ever seen it before. The division is so much more extreme.

You did say if you had a choice between Trump and Biden, you would have chosen uh trump i think i think this is what i said i said i would i wasn't going to pick either one of them but i would pick trump before i would pick biden because of age but not just age yeah i thought i think the whole thing was horseshit like he he wouldn't he wouldn't talk like you he wasn't yeah he wasn't having these and when he did talk like did you see that time we got into the argument with the united auto worker about guns did you see that it's like his just his temper and demeanor like that's not a i don't like that i don't want to see that in a leader yeah i don't see that kind of nonsense talk and then when he would give these speeches like you know talking about corn pop and how he's got hairy legs. And you're like, what the fuck is he doing?

I mean, that was just, I thought it was done after that. Crazy. It should be. Inside my inner thighs. I've never heard that before. It's the craziest fucking speech ever. I thought it was like comedy for a second. And he's up there and there's a bunch of kids behind him talking, not paying attention to him.

Like, it's chaos. Yeah. But if you go back to, what was the guy's name from, what is it from Vermont? The guy who screamed out in his campaign, ended. What's his name again? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, you do, right? The Democratic guy, he was like, and then we're going to win this.

We're going to go all the way to the White House. But he was yelling while the audience was yelling. They isolated his mic. Howard Dean, thank you. They isolated his mic and that was it. Howard Dean was done. One Dean. Thank you. They isolated his mic, and that was it. Howard Dean was done. One yell. One fucking yell.

Biden's talking about his hairy legs and kids rubbing his legs, and this guy, Corn Pop, has got a rusty knife. Like, what the fuck are you saying? It's great how the media reacted to it. What a great way of connecting with an audience, you know, with this inner hairy legs. You know, he's got such a great sense of humor. I've never seen anybody tell comedy like that. But going back to it, so on a serious note, if Trump was president today,

talk about the Afghanistan situation, how we handled it. Talk about, you know, what happened with the Taliban. How different would things have been if he was still president? It's a good question. It's a good question. I don't know. I mean, Trump wanted out of Afghanistan. That is a very important point. No question about that. He never wanted to go in the first place. He's not a guy who is, he's not interested in interventionist

foreign policy. He doesn't want to invade these countries and be the police of the world. And I think any way of pulling out of Afghanistan is going to be problematic, right? We've been there for so long. The Taliban wants control of Afghanistan. Again, I think it would have been a problem no matter what. But I think universally, it's agreed that the way the Biden administration handled it was atrocious. I don't know what the best way to handle it would be. You would have to confer and consult with military experts. You'd have to figure out some way to ensure that you can get everybody out. You can't just pull out and then leave people in there stranded

and leave people that assisted the military at the mercy of the Taliban. And they didn't just do that. They left a list of who these people are. You know, they left all their data. They could find these people, the people that aided the United States, even translators. They're murdering them. I mean, that's happening right now as we speak.

It's not good. I don't know what the right way to handle it. What do you think the right way to handle it? I think the biggest thing is sequencing. I think the real challenge was sequencing. I think it did real challenge with sequencing So, you know the game of chess or if you play backgammon or if you do anything There's a certain sequence you go by right maybe you know the same five moves one can make move number five They made one

Okay, which was supposed to be move number five, but they made it first So you can to be two people can do the same exact five things, but in different sequence get different results. So I just don't think the right sequence was used. That's number one. In regards to the threat, there's a big difference, Joe. If you go to a bar and somebody says something to your family and you tell the guy, say one more thing to my family,

I'm going to destroy you, okay? And the guy's one more thing to my family, I'm going to destroy you. Okay. And the guy's going to be like, Joe, I'm just kidding. It was a joke, right? You say that. Then another guy says, I swear to God, if you say one more thing to my family, because I get the hell out of you, I don't believe you. I don't think they believe the threat today. So, so to me, there's two different ways of giving threats. So when America gives a threat to say, if you don't let one of our guys leave, I'm telling you, we're going to hurt you. I don't think the Taliban believes it. I think Taliban's sitting there saying, yeah, we don't think you're going to do nothing. Okay. So for me, I think this event, the last one, when I asked a question about Trump,

what would have been different? I don't know. I think we would have probably still had some protesting going on because that protesting wouldn't have stopped. I just don't know how different the Afghanistan would have been. That's the biggest. I think it would have been dramatic difference of Trump's handling versus Biden's handling. Well, I definitely think that Trump would have been more likely to follow up on a threat. Right. But Biden did launch a drone strike in Kabul that wound up killing an innocent person.

Wound up killing someone who was delivering water to school children. And it killed this man and it killed a bunch of kids. You know, this, and I say Biden did, it's not like Biden pushed the button, but he did give the orders. The drone strike thing is a really scary part of military encounters because the amount of people that die that are innocent is off the fucking charts i mean i believe during the obama administration it was in the high 80 and i think the drone strikes went up there was even more drone strikes during the trump

administration i mean it's just it's a scary way to do war because it's not accurate. Imagine if there was a thing that we did where there was a bad guy in, say, a market, and we walked in and just sprayed the market and killed the bad guy, but also killed 35 other people. And we saw a person do that. We would be horrified. But to do something with a drone that winds up killing 35 innocent people, it gets no coverage. It's very strange because we're disconnected from it because it's a robot that shoots a missile, you know, by remote control. It's sterilized in some strange way. Rule of thumb about retaliation, no matter who the president is, if you retaliate to an enemy and you kill kids, moms, innocent people, even the side that voted for you doesn't side with you. If you retaliate and you kill innocent people, the people that voted for you don't support you. So, but it's not being talked about. So this is really being swept under the rug. Oh, it totally is. It absolutely is. It's strange how, and that's another thing that I think that came from the Trump administration. The opposition to Trump

is so strong that the support of Biden is almost absolute. Like he has to do something unbelievably bad to get any criticism in the mainstream media, in the left-wing media. I mean, in the left-wing media is most of the media. The only media that's right-wing is Fox. He's got to do something really, really atrocious. And even then the criticism is very mild and they move on. Yeah. So going back to Millie, I think you were talking about Millie and then you said Trump put his hand on you at one of the UFC fights. I don't think I got your point, but what are your thoughts about the phone call Millie made? You were talking about treason, right? Is that treason? I mean, I think it is. I mean, who is U.S.'s number one enemy?

It's not Russia anymore. I know they're trying to put it on Russia, saying, oh, the number one enemy is Russia because they have the most nuclear. Fine, that's fine. I mean, that's the truth. They do, second to most to us. But to sit there and say,

yeah, it's just a phone call, and you make it on, I don't know about that. There's 50,000 people that you can call above the person you called. But you called, that doesn't make any sense to make that phone call. It doesn't matter who the president is. So I don't know what's going to end up happening. That's the biggest thing. You know, the whole thing with law and order or justice, I lived in Iran for 10 years.

Okay. law and order or justice. I lived in Iran for 10 years. Okay. So when you look at, had a guy on Gordon Chang, who's a lawyer, and he lived in China for 20 years. He's Chinese. And he says, the biggest thing that changed with China was in 1984, China only had like two law schools. This is what he said. In 1984, they only had two law schools. So it became more because you need law and order, right? There needs to be certain law and order for people to feel like there's fair way of competing. And in India, they didn't have that. Now they're getting a little more law and order. Capitalism works.

So capitalism without law and order does not work. People can bully each other. It goes back to competing a few hundred years ago. But if we live in a country where people can get away with stuff and nothing happens, how do you trust law and order? Okay, he's going to go to a congressional committee and speak in front of them. What is that, a commercial? Is that like just a conversation? Is there anything that's going to happen? How many times do we have to see stuff happening like that? But Alexander said a long time ago, I have met the enemy at his eye. I think the only thing that's going to take this

country down, it's not going to be external, it's going to be all internal. I think some's going to happen internal here where people like yourself were sitting out there talking to your team. And one of your guys brought up Rumble or Bitchute. He said, hey, you know, this is a place they can, you know, upload content. Because what if they censor certain people, right? And a lot of people are like coming after you constantly. I can't believe Joe did this. You know, he may have never had COVID.

That was just a publicity stunt. He didn't do that. And why did he take that all this stuff? But if they silence you, who can't they silence next? So if they go after you and they silence, say Joe Rogan doesn't have a voice anymore. You can't go on Spotify. You can't go on YouTube. You can't go on Facebook and talk anymore.

Who's next after that? It's a real problem. I mean, look what they've done with the president, with Trump, rather, when he was the president. A sitting president was removed from Twitter and all other social media platforms. Whether you agree with him or not, that's kind of crazy. Because the Taliban's still on Twitter. The Taliban's on Twitter. Donald Trump's not. That's fact. That's voices is unprecedented right now. I mean, we've never had anything like it. It's one of the weirdest times ever where giant corporations have, they're controlling the narrative. Like they can decide. I showed you today on Instagram the hashtag natural immunity. Have you seen this, Jamie? Crazy.

Jamie, I'm going to send this to you right now. Absolutely crazy. It's really wild. The hashtag naturalimmunity, I'm going to share it to you right now, Jamie. I'm going to send you this link. This hashtag does not work on Instagram. When you click on natural immunity, it says looking for vaccine info, and then it sends you to the cdc website this is what you get when you're just trying to use a hashtag for natural immunity which is a

real thing people that have recovered from covid have a natural immunity it's not just as good as the vaccine it's 6 to 13 times better according to this study out of israel 6 to 13 times better but if you study out of Israel six to 13 times better But if you even try to put that hashtag in on Instagram, they have decided to control the narrative I just went to look for it and that's what yeah, so it's not even letting you go Did you get that the I was that I sent you go to the text that I sent you because it's an actual post and so Through the post you can go to it and try it, which is, I wonder if it works the same on a web browser as it does on a phone.

But check it out. So if you go through the link that I sent you, try it. Right. It goes to the exact same thing I was just asking. It's not working? It goes to this exact same thing. So that's interesting. This page isn't available.

But because it works on a phone. I'll do it here on my phone. So here it is. Can you see it? I'll click on it. on a phone. I'll do it here on my phone. So here it is. Can you see it? I'll click on it. Bam. Whoops. Fat fingers.

Natural immunity. Bam. It says looking for vaccine info. And then you click on the website. Yeah. It says, when it comes to health, everyone wants reliable, up-to-date information. Visit the website for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The website has information that can help answer questions you may have about vaccines.

But I didn't ask about vaccines. I looked for hashtag natural immunity. When I search for it, what does come up is natural immunity with a middle finger after it. Well, that one does work. But this one, if you say, show me the hashtag anyway it says this hashtag is hidden when you click on that yeah you're right it's the middle finger natural immunity that's that one works yeah natural meaning but right just natural immunity without the middle finger it says posts for natural immunity have been limited because the community has reported

some content that may not meet Instagram's community guidelines. So this is Big Brother shit. This is, this is, they're looking out for you. They're telling you what you can look at and what not look at. Just for the grain of salt, that could have been one of those, like, hijacked hashtags by, you know, some, one of those bad players from another country that wants to get people talking in crazy ways. They could have paid a bunch of money

to just fuck with it. It could be, or they could do that and say it was another country in order to get that hashtag removed. For sure. You think another country would? No, I'm just saying there's a possibility it could be that,

just because we're already talking about it. It's getting people riled up. You make us think. I like that. Oh, Jamie does. Jamie's always looking for the conspiratorial angle. That was fantastic. It's not always the, what's the dumbest thing?

The paradox thing? Don't always go for malice or something like that. No, you're right. You're 100% right. You never know. If you wanted to, that's how you compromise a movement. You use disinformation. Joe, question for you.

There used to be a time being a billionaire was a big deal, okay? It was a long time ago. If you're a billionaire- It's not a big deal anymore? Not right now. Power, specifically power. So if I were to ask you right now, in order, I'm curious to know what you'll say, in order who has the most power, okay? So we got billionaires, put anybody that's a billionaire, the richest people in the world, number one. Number two, any of the major virtual governments that we have, I'm talking Twitter, YouTube, Google, Facebook. Virtual governments, I like that. Virtual governments. Okay. Any of

those. So any of the major social media sites, you got the president of the United States, you got the universities, educational program, or mainstream media. In order, okay, who has the most power? So number one was billionaires, riches like you got Bezos, you got Musk, you got guys like that. Then it's the virtual governments, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Google. Then you got our educational system, universities. Then you got the president of the United States, and you have mainstream media. Who has the most power today in your opinion? I think right now the most power to control the narrative is without doubt, these virtual governments. I agree. Yeah. I think that's

insanely unusual that something like this exists. It's unprecedented. There's never been anything like a YouTube before or a Twitter before or a Facebook before or Instagram that can completely control the narrative and decide for whatever reason reason decide whether or not you can use a hashtag Decide whether or not certain subjects can be discussed decide whether or not accounts can be banned. Mm-hmm Who'd be number two? Who'd you put after that? Who's most powerful or least powerful? Government clearly is powerful Incredibly powerful, but I don't think the president himself has very much power. I think he's basically led around by the government around the president. Do you put him last?

This president. No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I wouldn't, I'd have to sit down and think this through. I don't think this is something you can- It's something to think about though, right? Yeah, it's definitely something to think about. Because to me, if you start there and look at all of them, okay,

I don't think presidents have as much power as they did before, although they have power. I think Trump had a lot of power. I don't disagree. I don't think this one does. I think Obama also had a lot of power. I think both of those guys had a lot of power. Universities, right now, 13 liberal professors per one conservative. That number on some sites is 11, some is 13. So 13 professors to one conservative. So a liberal's not going to build up a capitalist, hard worker, person that's a self-made guy. And then you have the one conservative that's like, hey, all you care about is rich people type of a situation. Okay. So universities, if you send your kid to UC Berkeley, he's going to come out different if he

goes to Berkeley. Unless if he already thinks the way he thinks at Berkeley, right? Then you got billionaires today, which billionaires are. 40 years ago, we had shows that would say the life of the rich and famous. Oh, my gosh, look at his house. Joe's house is so sick, right? Oh, my, look at it. MTV Cribs. Yeah, the Cribs.

Lifestyles of the rich and famous. Look at the car. You know, look at this. You drive a Dodge Ram. I drive an F-150. So it's like, hey, look at this guy's truck. We were, as kids, one day, how cool would that be if I have to date? You don't see a lot of that stuff today. It's like, let me do a rich and famous type of a show. YouTube, yes. Mainstream, maybe not. But here's what the question becomes. So do you think these virtual governments are

going to keep getting more powerful or less powerful? More powerful. So Joe, what can we do about it? Okay. You're a man with a lot of influence because for me, this is my opinion. I'm curious to know, hear your thoughts on this. You know, when the whole thing was going on and Trump got censored and he got kicked off of Twitter and then came Facebook and then YouTube. And I think one of them said it's temporary. It's not permanent. Twitter said permanent Dorsey. Somebody said it was temporary. Maybe it was Facebook that said they're going, it's not permanent. Twitter said permanent, Dorsey. Somebody said it was temporary. Maybe it was Facebook that said they're gonna look at it

and YouTube said they're gonna look at it. But for now, he's permanent. He's banned today. And then Guy said, if this video doesn't, because I did a couple vaccine interviews and they were taken down. I didn't put it on BitChute, people put it on BitChute. One was Judy interview I did, Mike of it's,

I think a couple interviews that I did and they put it on BitChute. What was wrong with the, the interview? She, uh, she called that Fauci because her and Fauci worked on a project together in 1984 for AIDS and she called them out in a major way.

And within six days that video was taken down. Did she call him out for the use of AZT? Is that what it was about? Uh, I don't want to speculate and say yes or no. I, I, that's not one of the things she discussed?

We talked specifically on AIDS where she said even in 84, all he cared about is being a celebrity. All he cared about is being a celebrity. He just wanted to be famous. He wanted to be on The Tonight Show. And that was back in the days. I mean, you know, some people know Fauci, but most of the world doesn't know who Fauci is until the last 18 months. So she was taken down. And then we did a couple other enemies They were taken down

You know even Robert F Kennedy was taken down recently off of Instagram and this guy's the son of Bobby Kennedy and then he really is Off Instagram was kicked off of Instagram Bobby can't Robert Kennedy Yeah, junior and this guy's one of the biggest environmental lawyers that we have in America So you do these interviews, but they all ended up in bitch shoot They ended up in rumble or a couple of these parlor places, right? The question I ask is the following, who's converting and what is converting? So for me, I have a list of super necessary people in America today. I have you at the top of the list. I think you're very important because whoever sits with you, they think they're talking to you about to agree with them and you disagree with them.

So you're not like in any clique. You're not part of any clique. You're just challenging ideas constantly. You're like most of Americans. You're like, I don't know. Let me find out. I don't know. And then you do a lot of research, which the tough conversations are being had.

So pisses off a lot of people. But you're willing to have those conversations. Right. I think Jordan Peterson is necessary. I think Tulsi's necessary. I think Bill Maher, very necessary today with what he's doing. That list is a short list of names. I think Russell Brand is necessary. I think there's a small community of people that are getting us to talk. I agree with that. And have the tough conversations. I think even I would put Tucker there. And by the way, Jake Tapper, this is a weird one to put on the list. He's been calling

him out as well sometime when he does the interviews. It's actually – No, I respect him very much. Yeah, I respect Tapper a lot. So then here becomes a solution. If, Joe, we sit around and we're like, well, this is eventually going to happen. If we know the enemy is eventually going to get stronger, you think Bitch Shoot Parlor and, you know, the display Rumble are converting anybody? I don't think so.

I think it's just everybody that agrees together goes to the same club. I think Facebook is people that disagree, but they're getting banned. I think Twitter is people that disagree, but now they're controlling. How many people got kicked off just because they said what they said? How about if a guy like you, has anybody ever approached you with the idea of, Joe, why don't you create a social media site? Let us do the work, but why don't you be the guy that's heading it? Because a guy like you, you're not on any specific side.

You're not sitting here saying, I voted for Trump. You're not sitting here saying, you said you voted for George Organson. 2% of the population voted for George Organson. So you're safe, but you challenge and you can't convert. Have you ever thought about actually starting a social media type of a site? No. Why not? I'm not interested in doing any more than what I'm already doing.

I don't want to spread myself thin. I don't want to change my life in any way. What I'm doing now is exactly what I like to do. I don't mind inspiring conversation. I don't mind having people on to promote things and to talk about things. But if you're going to start a social media site, that better be your fucking life. Like, I don't think that's like a little side gig. If you're going to start a social media site, that is a massive undertaking. And if you want it to be successful and you actually want to implement real change, I don't think that's anything you, you can't be also a cage fighting

commentary guy, also a comedian, also a father and a husband, also a guy with hobbies. You're not doing that. You're going to be 16 hours a day working on this social media site, and you're probably going to get sick. Can I challenge that? Sure. Can I just challenge that and just maybe follow up on that? Okay, I don't disagree with that. I'm at a point right now that my wife and I were talking. She's like, oh, babe, I thought you said when we moved to Florida, you're going to be coming home.

And she's like, I've never seen you work this hard. Because I'm like, shit, she ain't lying. Because I've got a nine-year-old, seven-year-old, five-year-old. I've got a 12-month-old kid and running multiple companies, and I'm traveling back and forth. So I understand what you're saying. It is a challenge. For sure, it is a challenge to be able to do all those things.

And you've earned a point right now in your life. We get to do whatever the hell you want to do. You're at that position in your life that nobody can tell you what to do. You're Joe Rogan. You've earned a right. You paid the price. You've gone from the beginning to where you are today, and you're probably the ultimate

Renaissance man in America. US Open Taekwondo Championship. When Eddie Bravo went to Brazil and he beat the Gracie, he hugs you. You were there. You're supporting your body. You're like the friend. You're like the guy. So, but at the same time, this is where I'm kind of going with this. If you don't lead it, totally get it. That is a 16-hour day job for 10 years. You're right, 1 million percent. But maybe a guy like you ought to entertain the meeting of the minds. So here's how I process this. And maybe I'm wrong. Challenge me.

I'm actually curious about being challenged in this area. I think if there's one thing, last night I was having dinner with Chaz Palminteri, the guy from Bronx,minteri, you know, the guy from Bronx tilt, the actor, you know who he is. So, and we're talking politics.

I don't talk politics. I took him to Casa de Angelo. We're having a good conversation. By the way, Casa de Angelo has good elk. So next time you're on Fort Lauderdale, you'd like on Thursdays, they do elk.

But so I'm sitting there, I'm talking to this guy and politics comes up. I said, here's what I believe. Maybe I'm wrong. So the conversation about Lincoln Project, how Bush called out Trump just last week when he talked at the 9-11 memorial, I don't know if you saw that when he kind of gave his speech, and Obama was there saying, yeah, and Democrats are behind Bush because we got a Republican guy that's going against Trump.

I believe, I believe, I may be wrong. I believe Democrats are party over God and country. I believe Republicans are God and country over party. Let me say that one more time. Democrats are party over God and country. Republicans are God and country over party, which means what? One side is about having control of their political party. So whether AOC and Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren disagree with Biden and disagree with Hillary and disagree with whatever they say, who gives a shit? Let's just get together anyways. Let's make sure that

guy gets out of the office. Versus Republicans are like, yeah, no, I can't vote for him because of McDougal or because of whoever the other one would store me. And I can't vote for him because of McDougal or because of you know whoever the other one stormy and I can't vote for him because he curses I can't vote for him I just can't let me let me challenge you on that because like think about what happens during the primaries I mean they attack each other left and right sure there's the Democrats or the Republican sure the reason why George Bush is with all those guys now is he's retired it's over he's he's painting now when he was in office, George Bush was a staunch Republican and they were fiercely opposed to him. Do you remember

how they hated him? Do you remember how they charged him? Antichrist is what he called. Yeah, of course. Crimes against humanity. He was a war criminal. I just, I think there's a certain amount of party loyalty that's based upon survival. It's all dependent upon what they think is necessary for this stage of the game, wherever the pieces are in play at the moment. You know, when you've got a guy who's as polarizing as Trump and he demands loyalty and, you know, he's kind of the head of the Republican Party right now, you see that these people realize that the best chance for victory is to go with Trump. That's why you got guys like Marco Rubio. You got guys like Ted Cruz.

He's shit all over. Shit all over those guys. And they still stepped in line behind him. That's why they did it. They did it because it was the best move for the game. So that was them doing it for party. That was not them doing it for God and country. That was them doing it for party. So fair enough. So here's a question for you then. Who is the George Bush and the George Will of the left today?

That's a good question. There's no one in the left today that excites me other than Tulsi Gabbard. There's no one. How about Manchin? Joe Manchin. I don't know Joe Manchin. Oh, are you kidding me? Oh, I'm not kidding. You're serious. No, I don't know Joe Manchin. Do you know who Joe Manchin is? Jamie doesn't know Joe Manchin either. Do you know Joe is the only guy that votes left, that votes against the left today, and he's a Democrat. Where is he from? Can you pull him up joe manchin i want to say joe manchin is a south something joe manchin is a senator from west virginia yeah this guy is the only guy that he votes against everything they vote for so hey 1.8 trillion dollars he says no

three and a half trillion dollars he says no did you see what joe manchin told the biden told joe manchin last week can you pull up joe uh what biden told joe man told Joe Manchin last week? Can you pull up what Biden told Joe Manchin on a call last year, if you want to pull it up? I think it's earlier this year. I want to say April Biden call. Yeah, you'll see what he... If you don't come along...

Fucking ad blocker. Gotta love these guys. They want your money um biden told senator joe mansion to support what the fuck happened jesus christ it takes oh okay support his 1.9 trillion uh dollar coronavirus stimulus package because if you don't come along you're really fucking me so this is joe mansion okay so joe mansion so so Joe Manchin is the only guy that's pushing back on these guys. And he's saying, I thought it was South Carolina, but it's West Virginia. So he's saying no. So that's the question. Who is, but he's not bashing them. He's not trashing them. Who is the Bush and the George Will of the left? I just think the point I'm trying to make, and again, I may be wrong. The point I'm trying to make here is I think the left is more united than the right.

Even though the only people that they don't like on the left, if you're not a yes person, they have to get rid of you. Like Cuomo. They got rid of Cuomo. I think what united them was their hate for Trump. I think that's what united them. What united them is they're realizing that this one incredibly polarizing figure, this alpha character who dominated media and tricked them, really, said outrageous things like, build that wall, all that kind of shit. And they're like, can you believe what he's saying? And then, unfortunately for them, particularly for CNN and MSNBC, he became their vector for ratings.

He became the thing that they would focus on and it generated massive amounts of income for them so during the time when trump was in office and they could talk shit about trump all the time their ratings were through the roof yeah because all it was was them complaining about trump as soon as trump's out of office their their ratings fall through the floor. Crushed. Zucker got crushed. So they were in debt to Trump. They needed Trump. They need that sort of thing for their business model. Their business model's not personality-driven, interesting people that you want to see talk. Do you think people are lining up to see the people that are on CNN for the most part talk?

They're not, right? Well, maybe Don Lemon, I would say. Maybe. But you know what I'm saying? It's like they're not interesting people. So what they're doing is they're saying the things that the party wants to hear, that the people on the left want to hear, particularly the people that are outraged at Trump.

But what they didn't recognize is that they were giving Trump publicity. So the people that thought it was funny that Trump was saying all those things, the people that didn't like the left, they didn't like their politics, they didn't like their approach, they were happy that there was this guy who's a strong character who was pushing against them. Yeah, but do you think they're about profits over party? No, I think CNN is for sure. I don't think they are. If they were, they wouldn't have

pushed Trump out. Their revenues dropped 43-something percent. I don't think they anticipated that. You think they thought Trump was going to win? No, no, no. I don't think they anticipated the drop in ratings. I don't think they ever thought in a million years. That was a big drop, by the way. That's a massive

drop. A massive drop. It's half their fucking business. Did you see the number of New York Times, how many subscribers they lost? I don't remember the number, but it was an astronomical number. The day after Trump was out, their subscribers just dropped. That's crazy. New York Times. It's not shocking, though.

So going back to it, so you think the virtual governments are going to get more powerful? Yes. Okay. I think it's a real problem. I agree with you. So for me, the solution to me is there's got to be, so what's the best thing that happened to, shit, I don't know, Kmart, Walmart, 1962 and a half,

they call it the super saving center of the year. Walmart, Kmart, Target all got started in 1962 and a half. Okay. Five years later, Kmart had 250 stores because they were funded. Walmart led by Sam Walton, they only had nine stores. Fast forward to today, Kmart's out of business. Walmart's destroying it. They got 2.5 million employees worldwide, right? We need competition. The reason why this works left and right is because like, I'm a registered independent.

This works if we keep fighting. How do you register as an independent? Wouldn't that mean you're registered? You're a thing. No, I change it. I went Democrat, Republican. I went independent. Oh, okay.

But I mean, registering as an independent. Why can't you just be an independent? I mean, listen, I just want to change it up to be an independent. This is what I'm, because they didn't have libertarian. I just put independent. I understand being a libertarian. I'm probably more libertarian. But going back to it, we need a little bit of competition. Dude, there is no competition. There's no competition in the world of social media. It's like Facebook is the place for people to be overly verbose. Twitter is where

the mental patients throw shit at each other. And YouTube is where everybody posts videos. I mean, these are the three places that are just locked down. You want to show pictures? There's Instagram. So if you were to, let's just say you're saying, Pat, I don't want to do it. Don't put that on this on me. I don't want that kind of pressure right now. I want to live my life. I want to go hunting. Okay. I don't want to do this shit. Let somebody else do it. If you were to host a symposium, hypothetically, Joe Rogan is hosting a symposium, okay? It's called RoganCon, okay? Instead of Comic-Con, whatever, all these shows, it's called RoganCon.

And this is a small little by invitation only of people you invite. Some of them have a lot of influence in media. Some of them have a lot of influence in real estate. Some of them have a lot of influence in insurance, finance, talent, Hollywood, technology, software, and they come to the meeting and you say, guys, I have no desire to do none of this shit. I'm Joe Rogan. But here's what I think we need to do. I think we need to go find the right people to produce something here, here, here, here, here. Let's start recruiting because we need competition. That doesn't put the onus on you. And I think there probably would be a way where guys would give you five or 10 points on a back end, because even at the back end,

if you sit on a board, you don't do shit. You're talking about creating a business. That's what you're talking about? I'm not talking about creating a business. I'm talking about bringing the greatest minds together. I was in Chicago at Ritz-Carlton. I walk up, I'm like, there was 2,000 African-American kids at this hotel.

This was like nine, 10 years ago. I said, what's going on here? And every one of them was suited up like you wouldn't believe. Good looking, men, women, eloquent, well-spoken. I was blown away. I said, what's going on over here? He said, we're the future lawyers of the African-American community. We're the future leaders. And one by one, I'm talking to him.

I said, who put this together? Who do you think put it together? Barack Obama put it together. So he may not be the guy that's going to do it, but he's leading the charge. I don't know. I just think if there's a guy in the world that can pull the greatest minds together

and challenge them to do something with some of these areas, because I do agree with you, this is a real threat with the virtual government. I think if anyone's fully qualified to do that and just hold the meeting and not do anything anymore, I think it's a man named Joe Rogan. I don't know if anybody could do anything about the amount of momentum that Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, Google, the amount of power that they have. The amount of power that they have is unprecedented.

Anything short of some sort of regulation, and this is where it gets really squirrely, you're going to allow the government to regulate these companies? I think we might almost be better off allowing the companies to regulate themselves. Yeah. Because anything short of government regulation

that says that you cannot censor, because what's going on is it's not just being censored, it's censored toward a particular ideology. It's censored almost entirely towards the left. I mean, some left-leaning people get censored as well, especially if they step out of line politically. Like my friend Brett Weinstein had a- Great podcast, by the way, with him. He crushed it. He's awesome. And as is his wife, Heather. They had a movement that they were trying to do called Unity 2020, where they were trying to do called Unity 2020,

where they were trying to bring the best candidates from the left and the best candidates from the right and create some sort of a third party alternative where you could get a Tulsi Gabbard and a Dan Crenshaw together. That was the ultimate goal. They were banned from Twitter for no reason. For no reason. Twitter just decided they wanted Trump to win so badly that they're gonna come up with excuses to ban a company or rather a group of people that decided it would be a good idea to organize people

from opposing sides that have similar ideologies and morals and ethics and put them together to try to find a better alternative to the two-party system that we currently are stuck with. So they were banned off Twitter. That kind of power is crazy. But that was something that was done to people on the left, right? So it's a very, very weird time when YouTube can just decide

that they don't like what someone says in your video and ban it. But it's a person's opinion. There's a lot of offensive things said on YouTube every day, all day long. You can go on YouTube and find things that you disagree with, things you think would be problematic for our culture and our communities. It's all over the place on YouTube. But because of this current pandemic they feel like there's this heightened sense of responsibility they have to to control the narrative and that's that's very disturbing to me and what's even more disturbing to me is how people when they agree with that narrative don't understand where this all goes and they're they're agreeing with that

censorship they're like yes censor those people. Get rid of those voices. De-platform people that I disagree with. And they don't understand where this goes. It's like where people are saying, the people that have been vaccinated, that want a vaccine passport. Yes, we should have a vaccine passport. I've been vaccinated.

That's not going to change. It's only going to help me. I did my part. I took one for the team and I went out and got vaccinated to be a good citizen. Those people who didn't, fuck them. We should have a vaccine passport. That makes zero sense. But here's the problem with it. The vaccine passport, it doesn't end there. It's going to keep going and it's going to lead to some sort of a social system. You're going to have a social credit system similar to what they have in China. You think it'll happen in our lifetime?

100%. You're saying 100%? 100% it can happen in our lifetime. Are you okay with that? No. Okay, so then my- 100% can happen in our lifetime because people will step with it. As long as it benefits them and as long as it aligns with their ideology, they will ignore the dangers of a social credit system and they will embrace it.

I would never thought people would be- Look, six months ago, the White House was saying, there's no way we would ever use some sort of a vaccine mandate. There's no way. But Kamala said, I would never take the vaccine that Trump's coming.

So did Biden. Yeah, both of them said that. Yeah, they both did. But then once they got into office, six months ago, they said we would never use a mandate. We would never try to force businesses or people to be

vaccinated. Now they are saying that. Now they want you to do that. Did you see that video where they're talking about, Biden's talking about the hurricane? No. Have you seen this? No. Have you seen that, Jamie? Here, I'll say the one where the kid's laughing. Here, I'll send you this one because this is the funniest one. Because these guys

were watching them say this, and as these guys were watching them say this and as these guys are watching them say this uh it's just funny here i'm gonna send you this hold on give me one second it's hurricane yeah he's he's telling them they should get vaccinated before the hurricane comes it's it's obviously joke right no it's not a joke he's being he's being dead serious but you gotta watch this i just said it to you jamie let's watch it we'll watch it on the screen we'll have a nice laugh because it's not that you shouldn't get vaccinated that's not what i'm saying it's just like

the narrative is so it's so overwhelming that it applies to everything now it applies to the fucking hurricane play this give me some In a state where hurricanes often strike. These two guys. Like Florida or the Gulf Coast or into Texas, a vital part of preparing for hurricane season is to get vaccinated now. Everything is more complicated if you're not vaccinated and a hurricane or a natural disaster hits. How the hell does that make any sense though? Okay. So, so...

People are just stepping in line. You're not saying don't take the vaccine. That's not what you're saying. No, I think a lot of people should take the vaccine. Okay, so I got a story for you here from my personal end. My dad is 79 years old, okay? Conversation came about the vaccine.

He said, are you taking it? I said, I'm not taking it. I was in the army. In the army, the first day of going into the Army, they give you 11 air shots when you go in. And you just go through it. Literally, you walk. 11 shots in one day?

11 shots in one day, back to back to back. And you say, don't move. If you move a little, you get a scar. I mean, I'll never forget this. I was 18 years old. So I've had plenty of vaccine in myself. It's probably why I'm a little bit off. But so my dad, okay, he says, should I get the vaccine?

I said, dad, it's up to you. What do you want to do? He says, Pat, you know, I'm 70 some years old. I said, dad, if you're 79, do what you want to do. He said, I want to get the vaccine. He said, when I got the vaccine, great. I didn't get the vaccine. I got COVID.

So he ends up getting the vaccine. And two weeks ago, he just got his negative back from COVID. He got positive and he got pneumonia. My dad had 79 and he is okay. He's done. He scored away. He has nothing to worry about today. Would it have been different if he didn't have the vaccine? I don't know. Most likely it would have been. Most likely it would have been. So I think it made sense that he took the vaccine and it benefited him. A friend of mine younger than in my 20 years, in great shape, didn't take the shot.

He got vaccine. He got COVID and had pneumonia, was in a hospital for four weeks. Literally, he was hospitalized, right? For myself, I didn't take the vaccine. There's a few reasons why I haven't taken a vaccine yet. That's my only reason why I haven't taken a vaccine yet. But the biggest challenge for me is the conversation of being forced to take the vaccine. So Nicki Minaj, I'm sure you're kind of following the story to take the vaccine. So Nicki Minaj,

I'm sure you're kind of following the story with what's going on with Nicki Minaj. Her cousin's testicles. Her cousin's testicles. Yeah. And Trinidad and people are saying, are you kidding me about these testicles? So whether these testicles are just massive or something happened to them, or it was because of the vaccine, let's set that aside with the testicles. I've never heard of testicles swelling as a side effect. I've heard of other things, but not because of the vaccine. So, okay, so that's that part.

All right, so she goes up there and she says, I don't want to take it. On her live, Joe, you got to listen to her live. It's so funny because she puts the camera and the camera's at the ceiling. You never see her face. You're just talking, it's alive, right? And she says, let me get this straight

because uh she put it out on twitter that i got a call from the white house to go and have a meeting at the white house with uh the the health secretary and what do you call it with fauci right meeting with fauci and she said i would like to come but i would like it to be live uh instead of me traveling i'd much rather not travel let's do a live and they say yeah we don't mind doing a live we just don't want it to be recorded she says no i want it to be live instead of me traveling. I'd much rather not travel. Let's do a live. And they say, yeah, we don't mind doing a live. We just don't want it to be recorded. She says, no, I want it to be recorded because I want my audience to see whether this is, you know, so I'm honest with the audience. They said, well, let us think about it. She has her PR rep on it and her agent on the call. So it's not like she's by herself. Then the White House comes back and says, no, we never told you that you're going to be doing this live, right? Because she tweeted us

and I got a call from White House. And she says, why can't never told you that you're going to be doing this live. Right. Because she tweeted us and I got a call from White House. And she says, why can't I have the choice to not do it? Why can't I not have the choice? The biggest contradiction for me. To not do the vaccine. I don't want to take the vaccine. They're forcing her to do it. And, you know, you heard a couple of the folks from I don't know what it was when they came out and they said, who is the lady that we were talking about?

She's I got two million followers, girl. I'm not at your level with, you know, 22 million followers on Twitter. You know, you can do better, girl. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing this because now people are not taking the vaccine. Who said that to her? Who's Joy? What's her name? Oh, Joy Ann Reid?

Yeah, I think that's who it was. And so she comes back and she says, just because I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it. So why do I have to do it? I may end up doing it because I have to go on tour and I have to do this part. But if you're going to a point, Joe, yourself, where you're talking about 100% this is going to happen in our generation, then I ask you, are you okay with that? I didn't say 100% it's going to happen. I said 100% it could happen that we have a social credit score in this country. The same people that are accepting a vaccine passport, my position is I do not believe once the government has the

ability to control your movement, what you do and when you do it, if they can put limitations on your freedom, and that is what it is, that it makes it easier to control people. Once they do that, I do not believe they're going to leave it at a vaccine passport. I agree with you. I think they're going to expand it. And I think the next logical move is some sort of a social credit score. And you will look at a bunch of things. Have you paid your taxes?

Are you in debt? Do you owe money on your credit cards? Are you in default of loans? Have you been vaccinated? Have you voted? And all those things. And who you voted for. Well, that would be problematic, but all those things could be designed into a social credit program where you could see in a person who has poor social credit, a person who's been to jail for armed robbery, a person who owes taxes, that person would have a lower credit score and they wouldn't be allowed into certain buildings. Why is this a bad thing?

It's because it's control. It's having the ability to tell people what they can and can't do. Having the government, if you're a free person, I mean, you've made mistakes or you're trying to do better in your life, but you've had some horrible scenarios in your past, you're supposed to be free to try to navigate and do better in your life. If you're restricted and very clearly restricted by a set of parameters that's decided by other people that doesn't have to do with law. Like it's not like you need to be locked up because you're a criminal. You have a social credit score like they're implementing in China. What it does is it keeps people scared and it keeps people in line.

And it's a fantastic way to control the population. And that's what it's used for. Should we do something about it? I think talking about it is a good thing. I think talking about it like we're talking about allowing people to recognize that this is something that could potentially happen. You think there's a next step? The vaccine passport just six months ago was conspiracy theory nonsense. Like people were like, what the fuck are you talking about?

You're not going to have a vaccine passport. No one was accepting the fact that this was real. This was stuff that Alex Jones talked about. But now, it's a real thing. L.A. and New York, yeah. Is L.A. now? Oh, yeah. They just announced it three days ago.

Right after Newsom won the election? Right after Newsom. They announced it the next day. God. That's right. The next day they announced it. How clever. But you were in Bell Canyon.

Were you living in Bell Canyon? Yeah. Were you in Bell Canyon? I love that community, Bell Canyon. I was living in Woodland Hills and Granada Hills, which is, our office was at Warner Center Mar goes there, right? So what is above talking about it? So if talking about it 1 million percent, you're right. But what is above talking about it? Is there something above us talking about it too? a lot of ideas that we can process together is not going to be there. Is America going to really be America if we go in that direction? Probably not. We're going to have to throw a lot of the stuff America was founded on. So what do you think's above talking about it? What's above talking about it? Action, obviously. We'd have to organize something. So what do we do? Well,

I don't know what you can do at this point. I think what we've got to do is get the people who run these social media platforms to understand the dangers of what they're involved with. You think that can happen? I don't know, because I had Colin Holbeck. Is that how you pronounce his last name? Right? Holbeck? How do you say it? Holbeck. He's the gentleman, H-O-B-A-C-K. He's the gentleman that produced that HBO documentary on QAnon. And one of the big parts of our conversation yesterday was discussing privacy, social media power, and how these algorithms are essentially pushing people towards division. And we talked about the movie The Social Dilemma.

They really highlighted how these algorithms are polarizing people and causing this. There's a real problem with algorithms. There's a real problem that we have those. But there's also a problem with the amount of money that these social media companies have been able to generate by selling your private information, selling your data. This is where all this division is coming from. It accentuates the division. And I don't think the division would be nearly as strong if people were allowed to communicate freely. And if there wasn't this sort of massive amount of income that could be derived from division, from people fighting with each other yeah and it's it's a real

it's a real issue so so then if that's the case the question then becomes so one we both are on the same page holding them accountable if the government regulates them that's could be even more problematic because now the new administration can tell them what to do and who to censor exactly I don't know if we wanted to get to that point you don't know no matter what side it is even if it's a side you agree with. I think you're better off with these private companies controlling it than the government by far.

I agree. I agree. But now, why should they listen to you? Why should they listen to you? Because do you think, like, go back to the days of, we're going to protest. I want to protest. Strike. What are we going to do?

We're going to get off Instagram? We're going to get off YouTube? We're going to protest. I want to protest. Strike. What are we going to do? We're going to get off Instagram? We're going to get off YouTube? We're going to take a month off? Like, you know, I was like, well, I'm not going to go use the gas. I'm not going to go do this. It's just not going to work because we're addicted because of social dilemma. Kids are addicted to it. So living a life without checking Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook,

Rogan, Spotify, I don't know if we can do that. So then the next part for me becomes, Facebook, Rogan, Spotify. I don't know if we can do that. So then the next part for me becomes, do you think when Dana White and the two investors, when they bought the UFC for whatever the number was, two million bucks, the guy, you know, when they bought it,

did you think they thought ever that UFC was going to get to the point of boxing, if not bigger? I mean, it's pretty much there if you think about it. It's not at the boxing levels. If a big fight happens, people are going to watch the boxing match. But nobody thought UFC was going to compete at the level of boxing. You know, pride was fighting. Everybody was going at it. You had Fedor.

This is your world. It's not my world, right? The point, the way I'm going with this is the following. Sometimes as we age, I read an article about Time Magazine. It talked about, you know about millennials and how they're minimalists. And it was bashing all these guys. And so these guys are doing this and all they care about is themselves. All they want to do is see themselves in a picture on Instagram. And they're such narcissist kids, all these guys are kids. And then at the end, the article ends with,

And then at the end, the article ends with, if you think these guys are kids and they have it easier than we had it, maybe it just means you're getting a little too old. Which means like we forgot that somebody told us how life was harder for them than it was for us. You know how we kind of like. It always like. That's where I'm going with that is the thought of many people I talk to don't think it's possible to beat a Facebook today or YouTube or Google or any of these guys. Many people are like, it's over. You can't compete with them. But what's the alternative if we take that mindset? If we say, yeah, you can't beat those guys.

I think if today we had two YouTubes, we had two Googles, we had two Facebooks that are competing against each other. We'd probably be a little bit better off. I'm an Apple guy, I use an Apple. Are you Apple? You're also Apple, okay. I use Android too. But I gotta tell you, it scares the shit out of me if Apple is taking Droid out.

I like the fact that the new Droid came out because it's more competition. We need competition, right? We need competition. We don't want these guys to frickin' have control because we're screwed. And Apple took a loss last week But we had a big loss last week

Well, the new phones are exactly the same as their old phones and as soon as I got released everybody's like what the fuck? The biggest the loss they took is on the app now, you know how they take a third of whatever Yes, they lost that they lost that which means now you can go on a different side and that's big for them because that's a Lot of revenues 30 percent 30 percent. That's that's big dollars right? Yeah, so Don't you think if we know this is where it's going? I think a lot of people agree with you that that's big dollars right there so don't you think if we know this is where it's going I think a lot of people

agree with you that that's the direction it's going don't you think we need to like do something about it like we need to actually do something about it today

you took that conversation in a long way I have to go back to the beginning figure out what the fuck you said at first and then you worked your way into the UFC

and social media and then it got to Apple and Android to make you believe if UFC can beat because it's two things. It's Monopoly, and it's the fact that the smaller guy beat the bigger guy. Sort of. It's a totally different sport.

I see what you're saying, though. I think it would be good for us if there was more social media competition, but I think there's always going to be an issue, and the issue of control is always going to be there. And I think that these companies, when you're dealing with these social media companies, there's always going to be a problem of managing at scale, right? So if you have someone like YouTube,

like we've gone over this before, the numbers of hours of video that gets uploaded every day is staggering. It's crazy. TikTok just beat them, by the way, I think last week. Which is even crazier. Crazier, yeah. So all these platforms, whether it's Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, the amount of people they have using them and using them all day long is insane. I've had conversations with Jack Dorsey, both on camera and off camera. He is not a man that advocates censorship. However, he works for a company that does, and he's the CEO of a company that does, and it's a very unusual position that he's in.

He's an advocate for a Wild West Twitter as well as a regular Twitter. So like a Twitter that's got some form of moderation, very heavy-handed moderation in my opinion versus another twitter like a possible like a 4chan type twitter that's his thought like he thinks there should be like almost two twitters like a blockchain type of a thing that it's just something where it's just wild and wild and open i think the problem with that of course is illegal stuff you know the problem with that is child porn the problem with that same problem they have with 8chan right this child porn and doxing and in illegal things illegal videos so it's like what what is the solution managing at scale seems like an incredibly

daunting task and they have to do it with ai they have to do it with AI. They have to do it with machine learning. I mean, there's a lot of moving pieces involved, whether it's Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or Google or any of these platforms. They're so big and there's so many users. It creates a problem in and of itself. And I think part of the censorship aspect is just to try to manage this massive influx of data that they have to sift through all day long. So they make these hard line choices. Then I think they get pressure from political parties like the Hunter Biden laptop situation. New York Post story.

New York Post. One of the oldest, I think it's the second oldest newspaper in this country could be even older than that yeah insanely old recognized newspaper been around forever and they censored links to their story they had a legitimate story on hunter biden's laptop they thought that was going to hurt the biden case but much like the hillary clinton hurt her case. So they ban this story from all the social media platforms and people are freaking the fuck out. They can't believe that they can do this, but they did do this and they did it with no repercussions.

And that remains like that right now. Like it's, it's, it's, I mean, nothing changed. There was no, no punishment. They, they got away with it. They did it. It probably affected the election. I mean, the election was fairly close in a lot of places. Who knows?

It would have been closer or if Trump would have even won if they did not do that. I don't know. I mean, if there was no censorship whatsoever, who knows? Who knows what would have happened? Yeah. I mean, it would have been. By the way, would you rather have Hillary or would you rather have Biden between the two? As a human being, when you hear them communicate, Hillary's a better representation of America.

Got it. Yeah. I don't disagree. She's far better. She's a far better communicator, far better representation. And it would make a lot of women happy. Yay. It would make a lot of women.

It would be making history. I mean, if you have a first president, would you rather have Kamala or Hillary for the history books? It should be Tulsi Gabbard. It should be Tulsi Gabbard. It should be Tulsi Gabbard. It should be Tulsi. I don't know if they're going to let Tulsi have that kind of momentum. I think Tulsi needs some guys from the top to back her up a little bit more, maybe some of the money guys.

She used to go to Bohemian Grove, put on an owl costume. I remember when Bill Burr was on Conan O'Brien after Hillary lost, and he's like, yeah, I don't know if I like Hillary. She looks like a real estate agent, the way she dresses and the way she goes with her head. It's like, you know, doesn't she to go to one of those parties? Like, what? What are you talking about?

Anyway, that's a whole different story. It cracks me up when I see him. But so, okay. So, Joe, for yourself, like, who do you see yourself as? Meaning, I know this is probably not the kind of questions you like to be asked but who's joe rogan meaning like is joe rogan a uh what role do you think you play i don't think about that at all i know you don't that's why i can do what i do i totally agree with that i totally agree with that that you don't but do you think there's a part of it where um like you know

if a fight were to break out and it's a it's a good friend of yours that calls you and you know, if a fight were to break out and it's a good friend of yours that calls you and, you know, say, hey, Joe, we're going through some shit, man. I kind of need your back. I would assume that if a friend of yours called you, you're going to be like, dude, what do you need my help with? What do we need to do? And you'd go out and do it.

You just seem like the guy that you're a friend. You're the guy that's going to back up your friend. I think this is a real shit going on today. I really think this is serious stuff with what's going on in America today. What do you real shit going on today. I really think this is serious stuff with what's going on America today What do you think is going on specifically? That's that's incredibly serious. Yeah, I again The censorship part that we already discussed. What do you think you've done about that?

You think the only thing that could be done is some sort of a competition platform. I agree. I think we need competition I need somebody to compete against the current ones because there's nobody. But you know what happens when one of those things emerges? First of all, they say they're going to be uncensored and then they get don't want that to succeed and they would jump into that platform say a bunch of horrible shit post a bunch of nazi stuff post whatever the fuck they want and then a bunch of newspapers would step in line and those and those exactly those newspapers and those social media sites or excuse me those media sites would then print stories like the right wing Nazi loving thing that Patrick started or, you know, that new or Joe started.

Yeah. But that's what they would do. That's what they would do. I get what you're saying. And this is how they would. I mean, I think they've done that with Gab. I think they've done that with some of these other social media networks. I think for sure there's people that whenever you have something uncensored with like sort

of a 4chan type deal Whenever you have one of those places and they're anonymous, right? Like there was the thing that we talked about yesterday with 8chan with Colin when when you have something like that Yeah You're gonna have people that hop in and say the wildest most fucked up things Because they're bored at work and they want to press buttons. It's shit posting. It's been around forever. But bro, what's the alternative? But it's going to shit posting keeps other people from wanting to post on there.

What Twitter has done is create this environment where hostile dialogue is commonplace. Most of the dialogue that you find on Twitter is people being angry at someone, shitting on someone, making fun of someone, talking terrible about someone. Sure. That's like a large percentage of it. But they've eliminated the type of dialogue that you would see if you had a completely unsan...

Like the fucking Hitler frogs and all that kind of stuff. They've eliminated all the incredibly offensive stuff. But meanwhile, they have hardcore porn, which is weird. Yeah, very weird. It just shows up. Every now and then, yeah. Every now and then.

What is that? How does that happen? They allow porn. Twitter has no problem. You can't dead name someone. You can't call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce Jenner or you'll get kicked off the site for life. But what you can do is show someone getting fucked and no one cares.

I thought it was a joke to you. I was on Twitter I'm like wait what am I looking at right now? Like hardcore porn. Hardcore yeah they allow it there. Penetration right there. Well I guess it's penetration over Trump that's what it is. Yeah. We might try to have that. You can have that, you can have the Taliban but no Trump. So did you when you asked Jack what did he say when you asked him about why Trump's not on? Jack is a fascinating guy. He is a – I enjoy talking to him. I really do. He's in a weird situation where they started this thing up and no one anticipated where it was going to go.

And there's parallels to that and this podcast in a lot of ways. Obviously, Twitter is much larger than this podcast, but the parallels are when I started doing this podcast, it was just me and my friends talking shit with a laptop. And then somewhere along the line, it became me interviewing presidential candidates and scientists and philosophers. And I don't know what the fuck happened. It just kept doing it and eventually it became what it is. But part of that is what happened with Twitter. Twitter started out like remember if you know the early days of Twitter you would write like

at Jamie Vernon having a pizza. Like that's what people would do. Going to have a pizza. That's what they would post. They would post things like that. And they would even do it like kind of in the third person. Like at Jamie Vernon is going to have a pizza.

It was weird. Yeah. And then somewhere along the line, it became a way where Arab Spring came out of it. And people used it for political movements. They used it to overthrow governments. They used it to expose news stories. They used it for the Edward Snowden case and Glenn Greenwald. Fantastic.

Fantastic technology. It's amazing. The only question is, do you think they should have competition? Yes, they definitely should. The question is, is it possible? And here's the thing that's uncomfortable for people. Is a certain amount of censorship necessary to keep order? Or would you rather have like mad chaos?

And if it is, why is it only certain amount of why is the porn thing still okay nobody has a fucking problem with the porn thing i don't let me be clear i'm not an anti-porn person i don't i think you should be able to do whatever you want to do if you want to post that into your timeline i don't think there's a problem with i don't have a problem with it but i'm a grown man if uh if my five-year-old daughter is going through a phone and she sees someone sucking someone's dick, I'd be like, whoa. I don't think she should see that. Maybe she should not ever see Twitter. What's the argument? I don't understand their argument.

What is the argument for allowing porn there? I don't think there is an argument. I just think they never decided to censor it. I've never heard it addressed. I've never heard Twitter addressing hardcore porn. A ban on porn? Is this new?

From day one, our mission has been to decrease the demand for porn through education and awareness using science facts and personal accounts. Well, that's not going to work. This is Twitter? This is an article about why there's porn on Twitter. Hey, go back to that, please. Where it was? Right there?

Right where you were? Right here. Yeah, okay. Here it says, maybe you're wondering if we agree with Twitter's policy update. If porn is so bad, negatively impacting a person's brain, changing sexual taste to be more aggressive, harming relationships, negatively affecting

mental health and more, wouldn't it be better to ban it? We are passionate about sparking new conversations and changing porn culture. But the short answer is no. Even though we are an anti-porn organization, we are not trying to ban porn, and here's why. That's interesting. I think they should apply that same logic to speech that they don't agree with. They should apply that same logic to right-wing ideology.

Fully agree with you. I think they should apply that to everything. Look, I am a firm believer that the logic to right-wing ideology. Fully agree with you. I think they should apply that to everything. Look, I am a firm believer that the answer to bad speech is better speech. I think all those people that were banned, whether it's Milo Yiannopoulos or Alex Jones or all those people should be on Twitter. They should be on Twitter and if they want to get in arguments with people

and if people want to disagree with them, there should be a robust exchange of ideas. Good banter. Yes. And even trash talking, by the way. Look at the trash talking because even some of those are good trolls and push back. Now, if they have enemies and they want to dox their enemies and say, hey, you know, 35 Millfield Lane, this is where Mike lives, fuck him, ban them. No, no, that's criminal. That's criminal.

But that's where the line should be. Not in opinions. What do you do when media companies do that? Because that happened last year with some of the media companies giving up addresses of some uh folks on fox yes yes that's criminal yeah well that was the thing where tucker stepped out ahead of it yeah and exposed the the photographer and the writer who's writing a story about him yeah well he he felt he had to have you had tucker here or i haven't yeah yeah two people would be interesting right now i'm nikki minaj has she reached out at all or no no i'd reach out to nikki though nikki i want to talk about yeah nikki

i like her well i mean obviously she's very talented i think nikki and tucker would be by the way in the area of uh unifying like you know when 9-11 we had one of our guys gerard uh we're doing a podcast next thing you know he gets emotional he's a Jersey guy he's from New York and he said you know he talked about what happened during 9-11 20 years ago you know the whole 20-year anniversary he says in New York we didn't care if you were white black democrat republican we're just worried how are your kids doing how's the family doing kind of that event united right yes we thought you know COVID was going to unite because the common enemy was going to be China.

It did at first. It did at first. But I don't think the common enemy was China. The common enemy was the virus, right? In the beginning, we thought that the, we didn't think it was coming from China, like from a lab. In the beginning, most people thought it was something that got released from nature and that it was a pandemic that was just sweeping the world. It didn't take long until that one Asian doctor came out, one Chinese doctor came out who was a virologist. I had her on. I don't remember her. She came on and she said, you know,

here's what happened. Here's where it was released. And she kept getting blocked. That's another interview that after two days was taken down. And then now her article came back. She was right when she talked about it. But about four or five months later, we were kind of like, it could be China, right? That's a big argument for against censorship right because all these social media platforms was blocking the lab leak theory until it turned out to be true until john stewart on steven colbert is like what do you mean this is not like we can't even question that you know it took a comedian to do that it took a little bit of that but it also took um him uh trump getting out of office and then it took ran paul questioning

fauci in front of congress that was a big one when he was questioning fauci about gain of function research yeah i mean and it turns out fauci lied he lied in front of congress and that's that i mean the the new emails have been released recently pretty much proved that and it's terrifying no that you there's no pushback at all from the left and they won't even take questions about it and in fact Jen Psaki in one of those White House press secretary conversations she dismissed it. Just walked off. Not even addressing it. You know it's the problem is if you say yeah we think what he did was wrong and

we we don't like him anymore now that's another one that you've lost right you lost cuomo and now you lost fauci as well these are these are very important chess pieces that we're moving around here yeah but she's probably the most important one when it comes to the pandemic what cuomo had done isn't anywhere near what some other politicians have done listen i'm not sitting here saying defending cuomo yeah but what he did do that was fucked was the nursing home stuff putting these people with covid back in the nursing home yeah and hid you know the new governor no question came out and said that he hid 12 000 deaths yeah no question about that but that's not why they took him out though they took him out more targeting the Me Too than they did the other stuff.

But do you think that they did that? To protect themselves against? I wonder. Yeah, that's a good question. Very good question. Because there's a sacrifice that has to be made. If you're going to look at deaths versus grabbing ass, both of them are bad. One of them is way worse.

The 12,000 deaths that he hit, that's a much more egregious offense than doing creepy shit that politicians have been doing since the beginning of time so so so you would say the biggest difference between a cuomo and a newsom is there is lives on he's got blood on his hand and newsom doesn't yes giant difference look as much as newsom is you know he's a fucking politician he's a slicked hair politician like literally he's a slick politician he's got his fucking hair slicked he's the guy that went to yeah good looking guy tall yeah he he talks like you know like a fucking salesman he's not nearly as bad as cuomo not nearly what what cuomo did with the nursing home no no no i agree that's horrendous.

I agree. But, you know, when you got the President Obama coming in, they're making videos for you and campaigning for you. And none of them are talking about your track record. They're just talking about the fact that Larry Elder could be potentially this and potentially that. The new Trump. Yeah, the new Trump. And you're from California. I lived in California 24 years after I came to the States. You're from Germany and Iran. I lived in California. I love California.

And there's a lot of my friends. What do you think is going to happen next? Because, you know, this is the one part that I'm curious with you. You left LA, Woodland Hills, Bell Canyon, you came to Austin, right? And Musk also left and he went to Austin as well. I mean, this is like one of the places to be in America today. Do you think there was a community of people who didn't want to move or they're kind of like, yeah, I don't know. I think it's going to change. We just need a new governor. Do you think now that Newsom's in, now they're like, shit, there's a lot of people that are going to move. I agree. I think the mass exodus hasn't started yet. Well, it's going to get worse. This is what I think. I think the things that bother people the most about California are the homelessness, the traffic, the taxes, and the overreach of government.

All those things are not going to get better. They're going to get worse. And that's how you saw immediately after Newsom won the recall, he immediately implements the vaccine passport thing. I think what you're going to have is a bunch of people that realize that the grass is greener, that you can live in a place where there's less people, whether you go to Nashville, whether you go anywhere you go. California has some amazing weather.

There's some great people. It's very open-minded in some ways. Politically, it's very locked up in a lot of ways. Like people are very, um, I don't want to say brainwashed, but there's no, no better term for it. They, they literally have this perspective on anybody who's Republican or anybody who's right wing. They have to be a knuckle dragon moron. I mean, they, they're like blue no matter who. I mean, that's just a big part of what California is all about. But the untenable things, the unchangeable things like the homelessness situation has gotten so out of control. And then you find out the amount of people that work on the homelessness, like how many people have a job that's involved and how much money they make.

There's people that are working on homelessness in California that are making a quarter million dollars a year. And nothing's changing. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a whole list. There's a list of people that work on the homelessness, like whatever the board is called. It's a giant list of people. All of them are making six figures.

And nothing's happening. Not only is it not happening, the budget gets bigger every year and the amount of homeless increase. Now, obviously, the of homeless increase. Now, obviously the economy is sinking. Obviously we're dealing with a pandemic that put a lot of people out of work and made a lot of people homeless. There's a lot of extenuating circumstances that were out of their control. But at the end of the day, my friend, Coleon Noir, do you know who he is? Of course, I had him on. He's great. Coleon explained it to me. He's like, I thought it was a funding problem. He goes, but I talked to a lawyer in San Francisco that explained the whole thing to me. And he said, no, no, no.

There's no value in fixing this. There's so many people that are making a shitload of money that work on fixing the homeless crisis. And there's a large list of these people. Do we still have that list? Do you know what that list is? I mean, the list is crazy. It's like quarter million. Maybe I can find it if I follow my, whatever. Guys making, and by the way, you know when, what's weird is the first thing when Newsom won and he put a Twitter, he put a tweet out that he won, hey, let's get back to work and make it

great. You know, some kind of a message like that, right? First thing I did is I went and saw the response to his tweet just to see what his message like that, right? First thing I did is I went and saw the response to his tweet just to see what his supporters are saying, right? Meaning what they voted for. And it wasn't close, by the way, 63.9%. So it wasn't a close call. They got 5 million more Democrats in that state than Republicans. And you saw his supporters saying things like, so happy for you. Can we now please make masks and vaccine cards mandatory everywhere? And then by the way, it wasn't one or two or three or four or five. It was like back to back to back to back to back with people asking for that, which means that's what

the state is asking of folksters. So how do you exist in California if you're a Republican? How do you exist in California? How do you live in California if you're a capitalist, free thinker, you kind of want to be left alone, and maybe you're not planning on taking a vaccine? What do you do with that? What do you do with school? What do you do with kids going? Do you do homeschooling? There's so many factors there for families that are – they don't want to move. They got their whole families.

It's not easy for people to move. It's a very tough move to make for many people. There's a problem in these methods that they're encouraging, right? Masking, vaccine, passports, mandates, all these different things. The problem with these methods is that we're not really sure if that's going to do the job, right? If you look at Israel, Israel has more people vaccinated than anywhere. They have an incredibly high vaccination rate. And they're finding now the people with the vaccines, the vaccines are effective at stopping people from dying.

They're effective at keeping people from getting really sick. But they wane in efficacy over time. So now they're not even considering it vaccinated unless you have three shots. Now you have to be three shots to be fully vaccinated. And we're looking at a future that doesn't have a clear path. Maybe there'll be a new therapy that they invent. Maybe there'll be a new thing that if you get COVID, you just

take this, whether you're vaccinated or not, and that's going to kill it. That's going to cure it. We don't really have that yet. And I wonder what the world's going to look like in a year, in two years, when we're taking four shots, five shots, six shots. I don't know. I don't know where that's going to go. I don't know if it's clear. And some things that we know to be effective are not being encouraged. There's no encouragement of vitamin supplementation, particularly vitamin D. There's no encouragement of exercise and losing weight, which is a huge factor, a huge factor in COVID morbidities or comorbidities rather. There's this thing that where the pharmaceutical companies are your only way out is not, it's not real. It's one of the only ways out.

It's one of the major tools to help us get out of this pandemic. It's not the only tool. So when everyone's like vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, yes, but also fitness, but also diet, but also therapeutics, but also there's a lot of things, this Regeneron stuff that I took, the monoclonal antibodies are making it more difficult to get for some reason someplace. Why though? I have no idea. I think to encourage vaccine use. But why? So again, this is going back to the control deal. Or maybe it might be a supply issue though too. I don't know. I don't know how much of that stuff's available.

Regeneron. Oh, that's a good point. The monoclonal antibodies is available. I don't know if there's a surplus, if there's not enough. I don't know. What are you doing, Jamie? Playing Hitler speeches in the background? What was that?

DeSantis hammers Biden administration for limiting Florida's use of monoclonal antibodies. What? I was trying to find out what that was. What? Good for you. They're limiting the use. Why would they do that? This guy is not backing down.

Okay. DeSantis hammered Biden administration for overhauling the distribution of monoclonal antibodies in a way that will severely hamper the treatments of availability in several Republican-controlled states. Wow. Why would you do that? Why would you limit the amount? Department of Health

and Human Services alarmed authorities in several southern red states. Why do you even have to say that? What does that have to do with anything? Where the antibodies are widely used. They should be fucking used everywhere. They work. After announcing Monday that the agency would be changing how the COVID-19 treatment is distributed, previously distribution sites could order the antibody treatments directly

from the supplier. Now, the federal government will decide how many doses each state will receive and leave it to state governments to ration it out among locations. DeSantis warned that HHS's new equitable distribution plan for monoclonal antibodies is very, very problematic and warned patients are going to suffer as a result of this. Wow. Wow.

DeSantis is now backing down, though. You heard what he said. If any business forces their employees to take the vaccine, he's given $5,000 fines. Yeah. This is what scares me, though, is that. That scares me because that stuff works. See, if they wanted something that treats patients in a very effective way. That stuff works. I did it. I took that stuff. It works. It works. Three days.

You recovered three days later. Three days later, I was feeling pretty fucking good, and I was negative two days after that. Did you feel pretty shitty at one point or no? One day I felt shitty. Okay. But I've felt that way before with the flu. It was just cold sweats, and it wasn't good,

but it wasn't the worst I've ever felt but i'm in shape and i work out a lot and i i eat well and i take a lot of vitamins and i'm i was prepared you know it's not it's not the it's not a good thing to get i'm not encouraging anyone to get covid it's dangerous it's not fun but what i am saying is monoclonal antibodies along with all the other stuff that I took, it all was very effective. What are you telling your friends from New York and L.A.? When they're calling and they're saying, hey, you know, Joe, I'm thinking about moving.

I go, get out of that communist shithole. Are you really saying that? Are you really saying that? Fuck yeah. Really? Yeah. So you're encouraging people to leave. Oh, yeah.

All my friends in California, I make fun of them. I go, what's it like living in communist California? Amazing. This article says that there's a shortage. Oh, federal government limits sales, state supply of monoclonal antibody treatments. Where does it say shortage? Right here. Shortage.

Where? First word. First word. Yeah, but what does that mean? They limit supplies. It doesn't mean there's a shortage. I just read through it. No, they're limiting the supplies.

In Kentucky, they were trying to get some and they couldn't. Who makes it though? Who sells it? Regeneron is the name of it. It's made by, I forget the pharmaceutical company that makes it. There's two companies down here that are making this one and they're allocating it to people who are- Just make more, you fucks. Well-

This is what's crazy. Like, make more. This is, you know, it's possible to make more of that. Isn't that what capitalists do? I mean, that's the same thing they do with vaccines, right? The thing is they don't want to encourage anything that could potentially discourage vaccine or cause vaccine hesitancy. The mandate is get the vaccine into everybody. That's what they want. How weird does it have to be to be an athlete today? Did you see what Bill Belichick said the other day? They asked him about the vaccine. He says, look, we have a lot of people that have the vaccine,

and they ended up getting COVID, and we have some players that don't want to get the vaccine. And he says, so those who don't have it sometimes are staying stronger than those who have it, those who did take the vaccine. Then the guy asked a question from Bill. He says, can you tell us which one of your athletes haven't taken the vaccine?

Jesus Christ. They asked him the question. Bill's answer. That's private. That's for the players. That's not for the public. Of course it is. Of course it's private.

Yeah, but the fact that they asked the question. Ken, why don't you tell us who the players are? But that's their business, right? They're looking for fish. If you're looking for fish, you go, hey, you seen any fish? Where's the fish jumping? Yeah. They're over there.

These are fishermen, right? That's what they're fishing for. It makes sense. Next great article. Yeah. That's what they're fishing for like that's what they do i mean if they're gonna say like michael chandler is a a ufc lightweight contender and he's in uh the process of this thing right now because he discussed not being able to fight in new york city it turns out he can fight in new york city it's just like you just in order to be in attendance for his fight, you have to be vaccinated, which is kind of crazy.

But an athlete from out of state is allowed to compete. They can't mandate what happens to these athletes from out of state. The crazy thing is they're not taking into consideration at all this, air quotes, hashtag natural immunity, meaning not that some people are just immune to the disease, but that people who have recovered from the disease have a natural immunity. They have antibodies to the disease that are six to 13 times better than the actual Pfizer vaccine. This is all from this study that came out of Israel. They're not taking that into consideration at all. If they were, it would make sense. If they said, this is a three-tiered

approach. We want, say if you're going to do like, I've got a show at Madison Square Garden, and unfortunately, everyone has to be vaccinated for my show. I can't do anything about it. This is the state. This is the city. You don't have to be. I don't have to be. No, I don't have to be. But here's my position. If you are going to do that, that doesn't mean those people are COVID free. I have a friend who had COVID and he gave it to 12 other people I know. He gave it to a bunch of people, and two of them, also vaccinated, wound up in the hospital. It's not a guarantee, if you're vaccinated, that you're going to not be sick, and that you're not going to be contagious. So you have this entire room of people, thousands and thousands of people that are vaccinated,

have this entire room of people thousands and thousands of people that are vaccinated which gives them a certain amount of protection but does not eliminate the idea that they're going to be sick joe are you are you negotiating your contract when you're saying i'll perform but i'm not going to take the vaccine this is a long time ago like i booked this two years ago i got it i got and then it got canceled because of this it got rescheduled and And then now, very recently, de Blasio decides to make this overreach. Now, here's the thing about the overreach. This is what I'm saying. If you wanted to test everybody, I'm all for that. I'm all for that.

That's logical. If you wanted to say anyone with antibodies or vaccination, okay, I'm all for that, too. That's less good than testing everyone. I think testing everyone is number one, right? That would be the best thing to do. The second best thing to do would be to say, if you have antibodies or if you've been vaccinated, you're okay. But they're not doing that. It's vaccination. It's one single-minded, solitary approach. How many comedians today, and because Nicki Minaj said, she said, they're asking me to get the vaccine. She says, I'm probably going to end up getting it because to go on tour, I have to be vaccinated, is what she said on that one 40-minute live that she did. She probably thinks that.

But she's got a different situation. She's not a comedian, right? She's a performer, yeah. But because she's a performer, she's working with a lot of people so in order to ensure like say if you're in a band like my friend uh is in a band one person and he's on he's on tour right now and when he's in this band they have a bubble no one's allowed to go anywhere they all get vaccinated and everyone stays together and so they all get tested and they they're they have to deal with this but like if I'm traveling

Like I travel with one or two other people I travel my friends we go on like if we're doing a show together There's three of us. Yeah, like we we're all we test each other. I bring tests by the way I test everybody and then we go do a show but if you're working with a if you're in a band or you're a Performer on stage there might 30, 40 people in that production. There might be a large group of people, including managers, agents. There's all these people on the set. There might be an insurance clause that forces some people to be vaccinated.

Similar to probably the movie, the sets that they're doing where everybody who's doing shoots, they have to be vaccinated. So some of these smaller comedians, one of the guys locally in Fort Lauderdale, she had this tour, like 10 cities she was going, a smaller person that's going through places. And she was asked at half of these locations to be vaccinated or else she can't perform. What happens if, like right now, Fauci said last week, I think he said, I think airlines should mandate, what do you call it, vaccination passports. That's what Fauci said like a week and a half ago. What happens if that's the direction we go?

What if somebody doesn't want to get the vaccine? People are going to start taking the bus. It's fucked. You know, I mean, people are going to take the train everywhere. Greyhound's going to take off, I guess. I mean, what can you do if you're not vaccinated? And some people can't get vaccinated, right? Some people have like serious autoimmune issues.

And, you know, I don't know. It's a real good question. It's a real good question. It's a real good question because, again, the vaccine passport does not take into account people that have recovered from COVID who have better immunity than people who have been vaccinated. It's not logical, but people are stepping in line to support it, and they're stepping in line to shame other people that haven't been vaccinated. And it doesn't encourage people to do it. I can't believe it. It just makes people angry. I've never seen anybody convert another person by calling them an idiot.

I've never seen it. I've never seen it. Hey, you ought to consider my ideas, because if you don't, you're a moron. It doesn't work. That philosophy. But that's the situation today. The right situation. Do you think there's any chance that we can unify america today remember how the whole 9-11 conversation we were having and we talked

about covid and we said china you said we didn't know at first it was china and then we went to fauci and ran paul and all the stuff that came back yeah do you think do you think anything can happen that america can get united again or do you think it's the tipping point it's just not going to come around no i think it's entirely's entirely possible that we can bring it back around. I think it's totally possible. But something major has to happen. Something has to happen with our culture. Something has to happen with our decisions that we make about the way we communicate with each other. Because right now, people are just becoming more and more polarizing. Like we were talking about Don Lemon on TV, telling people to shame people and all that.

That's foolish talk. That's not the talk of an enlightened, intelligent person that wants the world to be a better place. That's the talk of a person who wants people to listen to what he has to say and hasn't thought it through. And that kind of thinking and that kind of speech, it just leads to more division. It's not going to help anybody.

And you've got a lot of that right now. There's a lot of noise and there's a lot of unwise people that are speaking about these things and they haven't thought about the greater good in terms of the future of this country and the way we talk to each other. If we encourage polarization, if we encourage this divide, it's just going to make things worse

if we encourage communication and love and friendship and we encourage community, encourage talking to each other, then we have a chance, then we have a chance of realizing we're all incredibly fortunate, you know this because you

come from Iran, you come from another country you know that this, when you look at the options that are available to people in other countries versus the options that are available for people in America, it's still a very unique place. Historically, it's unprecedented. There's never been a place like this before. It's an amazing place to be. We are extremely, extremely lucky.

No question. To be able to do what we do in the United States of America. What I saw in California was an erosion of freedom. I saw these draconian measures being taken into consideration and I saw it getting worse and worse and I got the fuck out of there. And that's why I came to Texas. And when I came to Texas, one of the first things I did, I had dinner with the governor and I talked to him and his positions on these things are you got to let people run their businesses. You got to let people live their lives. You got to let people make their own decisions. And this is not a good

thing. Like this, this virus, this is not good, but we're going to do our best to protect the people that are vulnerable. And we're going to do our best to allow people to have the freedom to live their life the way they choose. I loved what he said. Kudos to him. I loved what he said about that. It meant, it meant a lot to me. And this seems like home. And since then, I've been nothing but happy here. I think that freedom and independence are very, very important. There's a lot of people that are like, fuck your freedom. They're like, fuck your freedom. You know, we're in a pandemic. Never fuck your freedom. Never, never say that. You heard when Arnold said, screw your freedom.

Yeah, so did Howard Stern. A lot of people did. There's quite a few people that i respect that said that i don't agree with them but i think they're just lashing out they're angry they're angry at people that they want to go outside they don't want to be stuck in this pandemic but it's complicated and maybe they haven't looked at it or read are they as many papers as i have i don't know in too deep meaning are the establishment yeah they're so into deep with the party that's like hey we just had a party at the house all the main people showed up to my party I just invited them last week

I don't want to disrespect these guys so I have to support what they believe in it's like loyalty to your friends I don't know man my friends are

wild fucks I just met some of your guys out there I like your friends if those guys are your friends I like your friends I've got good friends

but they're wild people I'm friends with comedians and jujitsu guys and you know and a lot of veterans and i just i like wild people i like people that have experienced life and and people that take chances and and people that don't necessarily believe that the way the world is run right now is the only way to run the world that you can you can have a better way of life you could you could allow people to have freedom world that you can, you can have a better way of life. You could,

you could allow people to have freedom. You could still have order. You can be kind to each other. You still disagree with each other and still be friends. I have friends that are, I have friends that are basically socialists and I have friends that are hardcore Republicans and I get along with all of them. I, I, you know, and this is a skill that I've developed over time. This is not something that was inherent. This is not something that was inherent. It's not something I was born with.

The ability to talk to people and disagree with them but still be friends. It's something I developed. I worked on it very hard. Where do you have to go first? Is it lack of judgment? Is that what goes first?

No, because you judge people. I still judge the fuck out of people. That's part of being a comedian. But it's being nice is one thing, but also it's recognizing that you are not your ideas you're a human being you're not your ideas and so many people are married to their ideas and when you argue against their ideas they think you're arguing against their very existence against them as a person and they fight like those ideas are a part of them like you're trying to take away their hand. And it's a foolish way to look at the world, I think.

And it's a way we're taught early on growing up. You're taught to argue. If you win the argument, you're good. If you lose the argument, you're fucked. I've learned from doing this podcast in particular that you're way better off being completely separate from your ideas and looking at your ideas the same way you would look at a lighter like i'm not going to defend this lighter it's a lie i didn't make it seems good i don't know but if you say that lighter sucks and here's why i'm gonna go well tell me why and then you go well because it releases certain gases

in the air and it's actually bad for him like oh really oh i didn't know that so i thought that lighter was good but it turns out that lighter's bad. I mean, not this lighter. This lighter's fine. But what you think about a thing and the way you think about an object and the way you think about an idea, that's not you. What you are is this conscious life form that's experiencing this incredibly fascinating and complex world around you. And you will cling to things, and you will think of those things as being a part of your identity, whether they're the suits you wear, or the way you talk, or the ideology that you espouse, or the diet that you have, or even the martial arts that you choose,

like the fucking kind of phone you use. People argue Android versus Apple. They don't want any friends that use Apple. People are crazy. I think the clash of ideas is a great thing. I think the clash of ideas gets us closer to the truth. I think, you know, when Kennedy and I were having a conversation one time, I said, so tell me, what is it like to be part of the Kennedy family?

I'm just curious. I said, tell me about your dad. What was it like? He says, every night we had dinner, our dad would want us to argue each other. I said, you're kidding me. He says, every night. I said, what was it like? He says, it would be as strange as saying, what makes you think drugs are bad for you? Tell me why cocaine's bad. I said, your dad would ask you that. He says, yep. And we'd start then debate. And he would want us to debate, my brother. And we'd go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. He says, that was part of the DNA of the Kennedy family.

We were required to regularly be comfortable debating. It's almost we've gone away from it today because God forbid somebody disagrees with you. You know, you can't disagree with me. It's my way or the highway where we are today. Joe, if we were to, you know, my parents, when I was getting married, my parents got a divorce. They got divorced twice in 20 years.

My mother's side, they're communists. My dad's side, they're imperialists. Politically, shit didn't make sense at all. Exactly. My mother's side, they thought Karl Marx was a hero. My dad's side, they thought Shah was the hero, right? The Shah of Iran. And got married, two years later, divorce, remarried, unborn. 16 years later, they got a divorce again. Okay. So they haven't been the same one for 20 years. I'm getting married. And they both call me. They say, hey, you know, we're looking forward to coming to your wedding.

I said, what makes you think you're coming to my wedding? They're like, what are you talking about? I said, dude, you're not coming to the wedding and seeing each other for the first time at my wedding. Hell no. I said, you guys got to go have dinner together. Good call. So we're not doing this. So no, you guys got to kind of figure this out.

So I set up an event at the house at the summit in Woodland Hills. And they come to the house and they're sitting there and dad walks and mom walks. And I said, okay, you guys are good. They're shaking, looking at each other. No joke. It's like they can't, because it's the clash of ideology. They're ideas. They can't. One says rich people are bad. One says poor people are lazy. their ideas, they can't. One says rich people are bad. One says poor people are lazy. That's just how the mindset is, right? Anyways, eventually they go back and forth. And I said, Jennifer and I are going to step out. You guys need to talk. If you guys are not good before we leave, you ain't coming to the wedding. So we step out. No joke. We step out. We're out. We're walking maybe for five minutes. My dad starts screaming, Patrick!

He's screaming my name. And I'm like, oh, shit. Something happened. They probably got into a fight. And I come back and he says, we're good. We're going to be okay at the wedding. Do you agree? Do you agree?

Yes. So obviously they don't agree, but they're going to make it work. Anyways, wedding day comes. Thank God they were good. But the best picture is when we took the family picture. And my dad's on this side. My mom's on this side. If you can see the look on their face, I swear to God it's priceless because I'm cracking up because I know they don't want to take this picture.

But it's classic. You know, the whole story behind this is the fact that, you know, getting the right people in the room together before we make a big decision. I'm getting married. I want to get these two guys in a room together because we got to figure out a way to unify. So this wedding is not going to be a politically crazy wedding. Who are the people you think we need to bring in the room that can potentially help unify America?

If there was a couple people, who would those two be? I got a couple names. I'm curious to know who you think. I haven't thought it through. I'd have to really sit around and think this through. I don't know. through. I'd have to really sit around and think this through. I don't know. Maybe a hero will rise. I don't know if we have that person directly in our landscape right now.

Got it. I don't know. Got it. What do you think is the value of you doing a podcast with Trump and Obama sitting here? Because we never saw that, right? All we saw is the handshake. We never saw those two guys. Both of them are a big part of the influence.

Obama took it one side, Wade, some people said- I don't think there's a lot of value in having the two of them together. Tell me why. Because I think Trump would put on a show. I think the real value with a guy like Obama is to talk to Obama one-on-one

and to just have a long-form conversation with him and allow him to expand on why he did what he did, why he changed his position on whistleblowers, what, what it was like getting into office versus what he thought it was going to be like, you know, what it was like when he realized that, you know, he is in fact in charge of this crazy country that's, you know, this in this unprecedented moment in history, you know wanted to talk to a guy like Obama, you'd want to talk to him alone. And if you wanted to talk to a guy like Trump,

you'd probably want to talk to him alone too, but you'd want to wear him out first. Trump would be like a dog. If you want to teach a dog a trick, you've got to throw a ball for him a bunch of times and wear him out and then get him to relax. Out of all the analogies in the world that's the only one you thought of yeah yeah because you gotta you would have to like

cut through all the bullshit you'd have to cut through all the the showmanship and the persuasion and he's you know he's very good at manipulating media he's very good like he came over to me and daniel cormier went to the ufc puts his over to me and daniel cormier went to the ufc puts his hands on daniel daniel cormier former ufc of course heavyweight and light heavyweight champion puts his hands on him he goes i wouldn't want to fight you i do not want to fight this man like he's he's he's putting on a show he shakes my hand you do a very good job very good job you know he's like he's aman. Do you believe him though when he gives you that compliment? Who the fuck knows? Who the fuck knows?

It's not my job. My job is not to believe him. I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket. No, but it's the fact about sincerity. I don't think he's ever even listened. Probably never even listened to me do commentary. Come on. Of course he's probably listened to you. Probably barely paid attention.

And the guy's running for president, being the president, running a bunch of companies. I'm sure he's listened to you many times. Got a lot of buildings with his names on it. I bet he barely pays attention. I think he's the guy that pays attention to more than you think, specifically with people who have influenced a guy like yourself. Perhaps. So let's just say it was to happen. Say it was to happen. Trump and Obama sitting here. By the way, if you had a choice between the two to have him on your podcast, who would it be? Obama. Obama would be more. Yeah. I'd like to talk to him. Okay. Yeah. But I don't know if I'd want to even talk to him in front of a camera. I'd like to talk to him just for real, in real life.

I think he would do it. That's the way I'd like to talk to him. Yeah, I think he would do it off camera. Because I think that the camera changes the way people, you know, even, look, he knows I'd tell people. Like if we had a conversation, I'd tell people what it was like. So I'm sure there's a certain amount of... Accountability. Yeah, well, it's also a certain amount of reservation

in the way you communicate. You're not going to get the guy, the actual guy. It's going to take a long... Unless he trusts me, you know? You're not going to get the actual guy. You're going to get a little bit of a show. What's not, yeah. Yeah, like with Trump,

you're going to get a little bit of a show. You'd have to know that guy for a long fucking time you remember when trump had uh what the hell's her name from the apprentice celebrity apprentice yeah yeah i know you're talking about uh what's her name she was on fear factor yeah yeah she's crazy she's wild she accused me of being drunk i'm like i'm not drunk because i was i was questioning her about something that happened she goes like joe you're drunk i smell alcohol in your breath i'm like i go no you don't i'm not drunk like what the fuck are you talking about like she's just she's wild she's crazy lady yeah she was in the fucking white house and recording them secretly like that crazy lady

that eliminates future jobs she had a phone on yeah and she was using the recording feature recording conversation. She's permanently fired though. Oh, yeah. Permanently. Who's going to put her on their- Who was going to do it anyway? Well, I'm just saying for him to even think for her, when you do something like that,

you're done for a job like that. It's a bridge burning movement. Permanently. She did that after she got fired though, right? Didn't she? Yes. She ratted everybody out after she got fired. Yeah, but even whatever she recorded wasn't even salacious.

There was nothing there. But it's the fact that she was doing that. Where are you going with that, though? He had a crazy lady. To have someone like that on the administration. Imagine. This is how he's looking at things. He's like, oh, she's loyal.

She's on my side. She's on my team. And so he's got this crazy lady from celebrity apprentice that's in his it is in a circle yeah I get that wild lady I don't know if I if I disagree with that when that happened I'm like I don't understand this move I get you know the swamp but I don't understand this move I think he thought she was loyal she's very articulate she's well that's his number one value yeah loyalty loyalty good-looking lady talks well yeah celebrity you know she's well that's his number one value yeah loyalty loyalty good looking lady talks well yeah celebrity you know she's on his side you know you know how uh you know the criticism mayweather

got for a few years about uh you know pakia he yes avoided the fight etc etc and i love what mayweather said the other day he said dude i'm a year older than the guy do you guys even know that i'm a year older than him so even when i fought him i'm still older than the guy so it's a good argument on what when he said that and then canelo he says when I fought him, I'm still older than the guy. So it's a good argument on what, when he said that. And then Canelo, he says, when I fought him, he was younger than me. I was an old man. He fought me at my, now Canelo would have gone three more years. Maybe it's a different story because Canelo today is tough to beat. He's a lot larger. He's ridiculous. And by the way, I mean, look, it's your world. I don't have the level of credibility to get, but just even technically watching the guy fight, it's like a dancer.

It doesn't even look like boxing. It's very weird when you watch the guy fight. But, you know, there are certain people, like the people who got a chance to watch Frazier fight Ali at their peak. I mean, you're lucky as people alive to see that, right? The people that got a chance to see Bird Against Magic, I never had a chance to see that. I came to the States November 28, 1990. It was the move that Michael made like this over Sam Perkins. That's when I came to the States, right? So some people got a chance to see those big sit downs, big fights, big bouts. You know, if we were to say the bigger debaters, both Trump and Obama, they're both very proud of debating. What would happen if- It's a different style, right? Trump insults people and he's best with a crowd because he can say things like he did with Hillary Clinton, like you'd be in jail. He's got the one-liners, he's got the timing.

He can't do that on a podcast though. Right, right. Exactly. That's my point is that being a debater, what does that mean? Is he a better debater in front of a large group of people where he can get those zingers in? He's very good at that. But would he be a better debater if it was just a civil conversation

between two people discussing ideas? That's what I'm saying. So you almost put him in a place where he's not accustomed to it because to him it's kind of like, you know how you saw Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel when they were doing their monologue when there was nobody in the audience it was terrible it was so awkward I should never do it. It was so uncomfortable watching it when Stephen Colbert's like please stop

This is just not working right just even as the audience watching it I don't know what it's like as a professional doing it as the audience It doesn't make sense, but I think that also takes one your weapons out because because a reaction validates a funny bit. A reaction validates a great point, right? So what if we took that? Here's what I did a couple months ago. And this was two weeks after 4th of July, three weeks after 4th of July. I came out, I said, $5 million I'll put on the line if Barack Obama and Trump are willing to do a long form interview, three hours, okay? And here's the format. One hour, I ask the questions and we go through. Second hour, maybe we bring some of the stuff

from the audience that are asking some questions. Third hour, the two just talk to each other and I don't say nothing. They're just having a conversation. The only thing is you have to be respectful as they're going through it. That created some attention. And the next thing you know,

we're talking about it on some media platforms, Invite Me, I want to talk about it. Then people came in and they said, I'll match a half a million dollars. I'll give $100,000. We raised around six and a half million dollars, right, to do this. What do you call it? This sit down with Obama and Trump. wrong, if it works, if it doesn't work. For me, as a person that's looking for resolution, when you're running a company and you have ideas, dude, maybe 20% of your ideas work, but it's like a, let's try to see if this works. Okay, shit, this didn't work. Let's go to the next one. Let's try this and work. How powerful would it be to get these two men to sit down together and the right questions to be asked and they hold each other accountable, I sometimes wonder how the world sees that. Does that help us be unified? Do they get to say things to each other that call each other out

because both sides are still hanging on to it? Would Obama say something like, you still think I wasn't born here, huh? You know what I'm saying? Would Trump say, do you remember that one time you dropped the mic after you said, at least I'm a president when you were doing the mean tweets, whatever?

Here's one thing I'll never, all I am that you'll never be a president. You'll never be a president. I think there's a part of it. Again, for me, all I believe is if you get people in the room to talk, it's making progress. I may be wrong, but if we get people in the room to talk, we're making progress, right? If those two guys get in the room. You know when William F. Buckley sat down with Gore Vidal and they had a series of debates? That's what you'd want to do with those two.

That's what I'm saying, though. What you'd want to do with those two is, I wouldn't even necessarily have to be there, nor would you. I think just those two talking for hours, that would be the way to do it. I don't even know if you need a moderator. I don't know if it's a benefit. It might. it i don't even know if you need a moderator i don't know if it's a benefit it might it might be to stop the talking over because like that was one of the things that uh i guess it was chris wallace that uh had to deal with with the first biden um uh trump debate was that trump would

just talk over him he would just interrupt and and and that was a real problem i think you gotta let people he got destroyed for that, by the way, Christen. But I thought it was necessary. It was needed because Trump kept- It was needed. Yeah, he had to. There was no other way around it. Trump just kept it around.

By the way, the Trump in the second debate with Biden was smooth. Crazy good. Crazy good. Didn't even make any sense. He was so much better. I'm like, Jesus Christ, if he did that the first time, he might have won that thing outright. I totally agree the his problem is that his general personality that he's cultivated his entire career in media has been this guy who says

you're fired shut the fuck up this is what you tell the china listen motherfucker you're gonna pay you remember when he did that like that's trump right So he's developed this sort of battleship persona just cuts through all the bullshit and guns blazing and that has led him to victory, right? who oppose him, who look at him like not just the opposition, but an enemy that must be defeated for the sanctity of the nation. He becomes an incredibly dangerous prospect, a dangerous, polemic, polarizing monster that has to be beaten. And that's not necessary. Let me ask you this though. It's not effective. I don't know if I disagree with you right now, here's a question for you have you ever had a public loss that made you better oh yeah for sure yeah is that you think you think trump's had a bigger public

loss because he doesn't believe it's a loss i understand but it's still a loss though it's still a loss the thing is like he's never admitted a loss he's like all he all he keeps saying is they stole the election they stole the election. They stole the election. That's part of Machiavelli. That's Prince. That's part of 48 laws of power. That's part of don't admit the loss.

I think he believes it. Let's just say he does. Let's say he does. Let's say he does. He's still fighting it in court, right? Totally fine. But let's just say he does. He does.

Okay. Let's just say he does. He doesn't. There's a part of when he's by himself. Not when he's in front of the camera. Not when he's with the wife and the kids. By himself. Okay. It's Trump versus Trump. What's he saying to himself? Where's my Adderall?

You think that's what he's saying? I'm going to kill these motherfuckers. It's not Adderall. Where's my Adderall? I'm going to kill these motherfuckers. That's what he's saying. You think that's what he's saying? Listen, I think he is what you would call an extreme winner. And there's a lot of extreme winners. And extreme winners, whether it's like Michael Jordan or it's like Mike Tyson or these people,

when they're in their prime, they are fucking savages. And they exist to get that W. You put him in that category. Yeah, I think he's, look, he's obviously an egomaniac, right? He's a wild, crazy narcissist who puts his name in fucking giant gold letters on buildings. But he's also funny. Like, he says funny shit. shit like the one time we said if he buys Greenland I promise not to do this and he had like a giant Trump building with his name on it. I promise not to do this to Greenland

I mean when he put that on Twitter that is hilarious. He is without a doubt the funniest president of all time No one's even a close second. He beats them all. He beats them all. He's fucking hilarious. He has names for all these people. Crooked Hillary. Sleepy Joe.

It's hilarious. Best shit talker of all time. The best shit talker. Who's better, him or Conor? Oh, Conor's better. Really? Yeah, Conor's better. He would probably say he's better than Conor.

He would probably say that. Yeah, yeah. He could say it all. Conor's in the league of his own. Conor's a better shit talker. Conor's better. He would probably say he's better than Conor. He would probably say that. Yeah, yeah, he could say it all. Conor's in the league of his own. Conor's a better shit talker. Conor's a better shit talker. But look, as a president, I mean, there's no one better. There's no one.

There's no one like Trump. Reagan was okay, but he needed those cards. He had the three-by-five cards to read the jokes off. Trump is kind of like... Well, Reagan had some good off-the-cuff stuff. You remember that one time, I believe, I forget where he was, but something dropped and it sounded like a gunshot. It was after he got shot. He goes, miss me.

I mean, that's fucking. They said that was a setup. I don't know if you remember. They said it was a, they set it up to say that because it was a perfect line. I don't believe that. No, no, I agree with you. I'm just saying that's the criticism he got. People make shit.

No one wants to give anybody credit. That's a real problem too. The part where he said, you know, I don't want to make this debate about the lack of experience with my opponent or when he says, I'm a Jefferson type of a president. He says, look, Jefferson and I went to school together. You're definitely not the job holding up. The guy was great. But you see, to me,

I think what just happened right now, we're laughing. I think Obama and Trump are going to make us laugh. I think they're going to talk such good shit to each other that both the left and the right are going to be like, oh, freaking, this was awesome. I don't know. I think Trump is going to say, you did this and you did that. You spied on me.

And, you know, I think there's going to be some serious animosity still. Fine, let him say it. Let him say it. I don't believe there's going to be any laughs. Do you think? Maybe you and I would laugh. Maybe we had a couple of drinks and we watched it together. Let him say it. I don't believe there's going to be any laughs. Do you think? Maybe you and I would laugh. Maybe we had a couple of drinks and we watched it together. Maybe we would laugh.

How about we do it? We say, guys, you talk for three hours. We're not going to ask you anything. You guys just talk to each other and have a conversation. We'll just stop it. Our moderation is just when anybody goes a little too disrespectful, we stop it. I think Obama, with his calm and measured demeanor would exacerbate some of the antics of trump and it would make it look it was it would be a difficult opponent for trump

like to have like that's why i think it's a good one if trump and obama were running against each other the way that trump ran against hillary it would be a very different race because obama wouldn't take the bait the way hill did. I think he's a way more smooth customer and it would make what Trump's doing look more distasteful. You know what I'm saying? I totally agree. But I just think history wants to see the big fights and the big sit downs. I think this would be a crazy sit down. I got another follow up crazy one for you here. So 2022, just in a few months, we're going to start seeing Republicans start, you know,

leading for who's going to be the presidential candidate, right? You know what's going to look very weird on stage? It's going to look very weird on stage. So I want you to think about this. So imagine it's the Republicans debating, okay? Who's going to be on stage? Do you think Trump's going to be on stage? I think he would have to be. Okay. Do you think DeSantis is going to be on stage? Yes you think Trump's going to be on stage? I think he would have to be.

Okay. Do you think DeSantis is going to be on stage? Yes. Do you think Pence will be on stage? No. I think he's done. You think he's done? I think he's done.

Yeah. When they were talking about assassinating him and they were calling him a traitor and all those psychos that stormed the Capitol were fucking zip ties. Yeah. I fully remember that. I remember that. Yeah. I think it's a wrap.

I think he's going to go to PAX and talk radio. Do you think independents are more comfortable with, independents would actually vote for Pence? No. You don't think they would? I don't think Pence is a strong guy. I don't think he's a strong candidate. I don't think he's a one. I think that's the reason why they had him in as a vice president in the first place.

I don't think he's a one. I think he's a two. I think just like Biden's not a one. I think Biden's a two or a three. I don't, he's like, they're chief operating officer, not CEO. So I agree with you there. Who else is on stage? Who else is on stage?

Maybe Dan Crenshaw. I think he would be. You think Nikki Haley's on stage? I don't know. You think Tucker's on stage? No. I think he keeps doing his show. Don't you think?

By the way, he's fifth on the list right now when they're saying who they want. He's got, he's fifth. But do you think he wants that? I don't think he wants that. I don't think he wants that. Why life why would he make and i also don't think it makes sense for him to do that no it's like you deciding to run for office i don't i think you know you think you're you know the it's never gonna happen i don't think he i don't think he does that but i could be wrong but here's what i think would be unstoppable trump and desantis together i think against joe biden i think jo think Joe Biden's fucked.

I really believe that. You think DeSantis is okay being a VP? I don't know. But if he was, I don't know what his relationship with Trump is. But for him to balance out the bombastic personality of Trump and to have some sort of a message from the right, which if you get the Trump from the second debate,

where the Trump is a calm, cool demeanor, but also keep the humor, but stop all the the uh aggressive attacking antics yeah because those are what create more polarization and all the people on the fence the people that are you know i don't know if i can uh they'll they'll go towards his side because biden has a hard communicating. That's just a fact. And unless he drops out and unless Kamala comes in with someone else, it's a very difficult situation to try to get people to re-vote for him, especially after Afghanistan. And again, I don't know how to handle it. Maybe you're right about how to do it.

Sequencing. Sequencing. Maybe that's the right way way I mean maybe a Trump and his right Tim can a times good friend Tim Tim is a by the way another guy is very necessary to Kennedy oh my gosh he's very necessary because he's got zero ego he's just like I love the country I want to make sure I keep my freedom it's very necessary he's doing it he's his method of talking about what we could have done differently. I like what Tim's saying about it. But going back to it.

Well, he's a guy I would know. I mean, that's a guy. He's the guy to ask the question of. Yeah. He went back over there to help. I know he did. The whole. Was that the pineapple express or something that he was doing?

There was a couple of other guys involved. Yeah. Again, a true patriot. True patriot. True patriot. We salute. I salute what he's doing constantly. But going back to it. So Trump, DeSantis, those two going up.

Biden, if Biden stays till the very end, them two going up against Trump and DeSantis. That's, it's going to be a very, the only question is going to be of DeSantis. There was an event that Trump was bringing up DeSantis. I don't know if you saw this one. No. Where Trump's building him up. So he says, you know, next person I want to bring up is Governor DeSantis. He says, not going to lie to you. First time I saw him, I thought he was a little bit out of shape. I thought he had to lose some weight. I'm like, you know what? He's a little too heavy. I saw him. I said, this guy's a little too heavy. And I'm not going to lie to you. When I went up to him, we started talking. I put my hand on his shoulder and I said,

wait a minute, this guy's muscular. So then I realized he can't be your governor. So with that being said, bring up governor DeSantis. I've never heard anybody bring anybody up like that, right? Only Trump would bring somebody up like that. He's a fucking maniac. He's a showman is what he is. I mean, you know, you're not supposed to laugh about it because people take like people particularly on the left they don't think it's funny they take it very seriously you should and when you're laughing and you're adding humor to him you're somehow another carrying water for the trump administration you shouldn't do it yeah you shouldn't do it you shouldn't laugh about him or laugh along with him or laugh at his jokes are you being serious are you joking no i'm dead'm dead serious. Trump hates Florida Governor Ron DeSantis because of his rising popularity.

But who says that? This is a fucking article in the Insider. Well, you got to go low. No, it's Vanity Fair. No, no, this is a Vanity Fair story. If you go lower, go a little lower, I think it's... Trump fucking hates DeSantis. Former president from Vanity Fair.

But what does that mean? A source closer. That's like saying, you know, you could say anything. You could say anything a source says. Well, if they say something like this, maybe this is something where they don't want the two to team up together. Who knows? Because if they did team up together, maybe that's a super team. Who knows?

It's a crazy team if they team up together. I really think that. But I think DeSantis, with his measured, calm demeanor and the way he's handled the pandemic, whether you agree with it or not agree with it. A lot of people disagree with it. Right. But what he has done is give people the most amount of freedom possible while still doing his best. What he believes is his best to protect the vulnerable. You know, a lot of people criticize this. A lot of people criticize what he did versus what other people did. of people criticize this. A lot of people criticize what he did versus what other people did. But if you look at the numbers, especially when you adjust for age, because Florida has a very old

population, the numbers are actually better than the numbers for California, which is- It should be worse. Yeah, which has locked down everybody. But meanwhile, it's the place where I got COVID. Really? That's right. Because you were performing out there. You were supposed to perform in Fort Lauderdale. Really? That's right. Because you were supposed to perform in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah, I did. I performed in Fort Lauderdale.

I did Fort Lauderdale, then I did Tampa, then I did Orlando. Are you coming back anytime soon or no? No. I just did three arenas. It'll be a while before I'm back there again. But the walk from the stage, like when you're doing an arena in the center, so I'm going to do an arena in a round. So say if this coffee cup is the stage like when you're doing an arena in the center like so i'm doing arena in a round so there's like say if this coffee cup is the stage yeah this table is the audience so you got to walk through the audience to get to backstage so it's a high five and all these fucking people breathing all their air while they're screaming at me that's how i got covid which makes sense i mean if there's

any way not to do it it's not supposed to be that way. It shows that where natural immunity is superior, too, because I was with Laura Bites, my friend, who's very hilarious, and Tony Hinchcliffe, who's also very hilarious. Tony has had COVID. Tony was the only one of the three of us that didn't get COVID. Laura got it, and then she was vaccinated. She got COVID, and then I got it, and then she was vaccinated. She got COVID, and then I got it, and I wasn't vaccinated. Did Tony not go through that? Tony walked through the same people,

but Tony had already had natural immunity because he had COVID about five, six months ago. Got it. Yeah. Was it a bad case for him, or was it... Nah, it wasn't that bad. The original COVID, the first strain, was not as rough as this new one. This new one, the Delta, is supposed to be rougher.

But Laura was pretty sick. She was really sick for over a week. And Tony was feeling shitty, but he got a bunch of IV vitamin drips and got through it. Never caught COVID. Never tested positive. Tested himself every day. Go back to the funny part. You said you should never laugh.

You said the left thingsees should never laugh. Why should you not laugh? There's a part of it that's funny, no? Listen, there's a lot of conversation. The people don't like it when I have right-wing people on the podcast. They say, you're platforming people with their terrible ideas. They don't like it when I have Ben Shapiro on or anyone like that. And I just think that that's a foolish way to look at the world because I think that

you should be able to communicate with people that have opposing viewpoints or different viewpoints. And you should try to find out why they think what they think. I've had some really interesting conversations with Ben over the years, and I like him as a person very much. I don't agree with him on everything. I don't agree with him on a lot of things. But so what? I like him. He's a nice guy.

Every time I see him, I hug him. I enjoy his company very much.'s a very nice guy you know who's one of my favorite types of guests to have on our people that believe in communism it's one of my fascinating Congress I've had seven of them really I gotta tell you it's it's so who is the most compelling I would say Slavic Zizek okay he talks funny but he's- He's always talking his nose and touching his face. Always touching his nose.

Yeah, always touching. I don't understand why. He just does this every time he talks. Yeah, he does. I had Richard Wolf on, who is the, Forbes called him the leading socialist professor in America, okay? I had a guy on- How was that?

Aster, fascinating. Yeah? Let me tell you, that's fascinating conversation, Him and I, probably one of my favorite. I had a professor from a Riverside Community College. He changed his name, Astaire something. And he came out and he said, the two of the greatest leaders in the history of mankind ever are Mao and Stalin. kind ever are Mao and Stalin. And I sat him down and I said, I got a question for you. I said, if a kid is listening to this podcast right now and he's 22 years old, he has a choice between being the next Jeff Bezos or being the next Stalin revolutionary, what's better for society? He says, oh, it's not even close. I said, really? So you're going to say who? He said, Stalin. Stalin's much better for society. This guy fully believed it. I'm telling you. So did you ask him about the cannibalism? Of course. Starving his population? Of course.

And then I said, so let me ask you, if it's so great, when's the last time you've been in Russia? Well, I've never been. When's the last time you've been in Cuba? Never been. Why are you in America? So that's because the argument, there is no argument. The argument always ends with, right. You know, I've never been, or the argument ends with right you know i've never been or the argument ends with well we just never had a noble leader before well that's the thing right like we were saying that democracy never really worked like america like this is the first time it ever really worked maybe there's a socialist ideal of the world that we could put together and have this utopian society if we just did it right. That's what a lot of them think, right?

Isn't that accurate? I mean, they think the fact that a utopian environment like that could exist. By the way, a semi-socialistic society could exist. But will it produce an Elon Musk? Will it produce a Bezos, a Zuck, a Jobs, a person like that? I don't know. So it's about where the incentive is, what the motivation is, who we produce as a hero. I was talking to a Cornell University professor one time, and he said to me, he says, you know when capitalism works and when it doesn't work? I said, tell me when it doesn't

work. I said, tell me when it works. He says, it's about pumping up the collective and not forgetting the individual. He says, capitalism doesn't pumping up the collective and not forgetting the individual. He says, capitalism doesn't work when all you want to do is build up the individual and not give credit to the team. Right. And he says, but it also socialism doesn't work because all they want to do is pump up who? The collective, but they don't want to lift up the individual. And they don't want to encourage their- Yeah, like Jeff Bezos is a terrible human being.

Steve Jobs is a terrible, he was a, you know, all these guys, the creators, Elon Musk, Greedy, nobody should be worth $200 billion. And you saw AOC wearing that beautiful dress. I don't know if you saw that beautiful dress. Yeah, the Met Gala. Doesn't it cost $30,000 to get in there? But she got a free ticket, though, because she's AOC. She got a free-

Still. How the fuck are you going to show up at what's like Dave Portnoy had a great tweet about it. What was his tweet about it? See if you find Dave Portnoy's tweet. Dave Portnoy essentially was saying you are going to this ball where all they do is celebrate extravagance and wealth. And you have a dress that says tax the rich. Like what are you doing? Like that dress is preposterous posing

and then she was asked the next day because she got trashed for it i don't know if you saw the pushback she got and she came back and said all you people that are saying you know well you're making 175 a year to many people in america you're rich i'm not talking about people like me i'm not rich i'm talking about people that are worth in the hundreds of millions of dollars and the people that are worth billions. It's always the person that's slightly richer than you that's rich. It's always that. You know, hey, Joe's worth this. No, you know, I'm only worth 10 like Elizabeth Warren, you know, who makes $400,000 to give one speech to university, whatever.

You know, she goes in. She's a professor, makes all this money. But no, what's rich is somebody that's worth more than $20 million because I'm worth $5 million. So let's make those limitations in a way. Tax the rich, but I'm first. Tax the rich, but first I'm going to have the time of my life partying with them all at the most extravagant, over-the-top party of the year that is essentially a celebration

of richness. Yeah. By the way, that's another guy that's very necessary. Missing context. Wow, it flagged it. Independent fact checkers say this information could mislead people.

See why. Click on it. Let's see why. This is just a screenshot of it. Oh, wait, you can't click on it. Ah! No, that's just a screenshot.

But how funny is that that they did that? How fucking funny is that? He's one of the best trolls in America today and he's the guy that's bully under bully. We need some guys.

But how funny is it that they put that missing context? It's his fucking opinion. It is a celebration of richness. Missing context. Fuck you. $275,000 a table. Oh, my God. $275,000 a table.

That seems a lot of money. It seems a good amount of money. I mean, you could go to fucking Morton's Steakhouse. It's a lot cheaper than that. I don't understand. So, by the way, I had Carlos Mencion. I don't know if you saw that interview with me. I did not.

No. I asked him, I said, why don't you, if you're so confident you can do anything, why don't you reach out to Joe? I'm not interested in talking to him. Did he ever reach out at all? No. Okay. All right. Because to him, when we sat down and we had the dialogue together, I said, if you feel you're so confident, go on Twitter and say something about it.

He says, I'm going to. I followed up. I don't know. Obviously, at this point, again, we know nothing happened. I wouldn't know if he did. People talk about me on Twitter all the time. I don't go there. I don't read any of that shit.

Yeah. No, I was just curious to know if you ever reached out because- No. Yeah. No. Good luck to him. That's what I say. Good luck.

Hope you do well. Listen, if the guy became the greatest comedian that's ever lived, I would be fucking clapping. I'd be like, look at that. He pulled it off. You know, if he got better and figured out how to write his own material and all of a sudden rose to the top and became inspirational. Look, I celebrate all achievement. And whenever someone's amazing, whenever someone's great at anything, I'm fucking there for it.

Always. I love excellence. I'm a connoisseur of excellence you lift people up you're an edifier you're always lifting people up but i'm also i'm fascinated by greatness like someone can do something amazing yeah i don't give a fuck even if i don't like you if you do something amazing like damn look at that motherfucker go. Look at him go. Wow. I'll be the first. Because there's a real weakness in not being able to recognize other people's strengths. And the people that try to diminish other people's strengths, or whether it's their creativity, their power, their greatness, whatever it is, they try to diminish it because they feel like they don't like that person.

They're looking at it through a distorted lens. What you don't realize is when you're saying something that other people know to not be true, you are making all your future statements, you're holding them to this standard that you've already fucked up. You've already fucked it up by denying the existence like if you try to say ah jimi hendrix wasn't a great guitarist like what the fuck did you even just say right you say that everything else you say i'm gonna lose credibility i'm gonna i'm gonna look at it through the lens of what you said about jimi h Hendrix was so fucking stupid. So you got to be able to look at reality 100% unedited,

100% undistorted by your own ideology, your own personal feelings about that guy, the interactions you've had with him. You got to look at it for whatever the fuck it is. It is what it is. And you got to be able to say what something actually is if you cannot do that people will not trust you whether you like that person or you don't like that person i don't have to like you to know you're awesome at something i could see someone's a total dick but like they

might be the greatest sprinter of all time like look look at that motherfucker go. God damn he's good. You got to call it for what it is. People don't like to do that. But you should learn to do that. You should learn to give credit to your enemies. You think it's a learnable skill? Learn to give credit to your enemies. You think it's a learnable skill?

I do. I agree as well. I think it strengthens you. Whether you believe it or not. I think it strengthens you to give credit to people that you might not necessarily even like. And it also you realize sometimes that there's conflicts that you carry on in your own mind with other people that are completely unnecessary conflicts. You don't have to have them.

Even if they keep them, you can let them go. You know, like people could talk shit about you and you go, ah, well, sorry feels that way. I wish him luck. Wish him well. Yeah. The amount of real conflicts you have in this life, you should limit that as much as possible. I agree.

So maybe let's take this opportunity to give credit to the sexiest man alive according to Guardian. Fauci? Fauci. Did you see that? Imagine a lot of girls lining up looking to fuck that guy. Hilarious. So I don't know if you, you know, the picture, did you see his pose?

Yeah. Yeah. Hilarious. What did you think about that? I mean. Well, how the fuck does he have time to do that? Aren't you trying to protect us from the evil coronavirus? When you're that sexy, bro, when you're that sexy.

I guess you just take a couple seconds. I wanted to give you a gift. I wanted to give you a gift. Oh, you gave me a gift? I figured if you, you know, if you're a guy. If you give me a Fauci doll, I already have one. No, no, no. I'm not going to give you a Fauci doll.

I'm going to give you something a little more than a Fauci doll. A Fauci doll. I have a doll. Because of what he just did. Uh-oh. I got you Tony Fauci's Topps rookie card, PSA 10. He's got a rookie card? This is something I think you should keep for.

Is this real? Yeah. I mean, we just probably increased the value by five times right now just by talking about it. This is real? That's actually a card for Fauci. Can you see that? Can you see thatauci and uh he's throwing a pitch he's throwing a pitch did you see his pitch uh i would imagine it was atrocious you got to see the pitch i don't know if you can show it you cannot right you can't show it right who had the worst pitch ever well that's very arguable judd ap Apatow? 50 Cent or? 50 Cent had a bad one? 50 Cent had a bad one.

Gary Delabate? He had a bad one. Oh, Baba Booey. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Anyways, I thought you would appreciate that. Who the fuck is asking the guy to throw a ball?

It's a sexy guy right there, though. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Yeah, I figured you would. That's a great gift. By the way, you know how much that's worth today? It's probably worth 50 bucks. It's worth a couple hundred dollars.

Really? That's the point, that a Fauci baseball cart is worth a couple hundred dollars. But I think it just went up after he became sexy. Well, the sexiest man in America. The sexiest, right? Wow. Yeah. Whoa, it's worth a thousand dollars.

All right, it just went up a little bit. Holy shit. It's just on eBay. It just went up right there. Well, that's what someone's asking. But there's not a lot of them, so. No, no, no. Thank you very much.

Today, his street credit for his baseball card just went up with Fauci. But we'll see what's going to happen there. Yeah. Who the fuck is collecting cards? Oh, dude, are you kidding me? Do you know there's a UFC? I have a UFC card that's like worth money? I have Max Holloway's rookie card.

How much is it worth? I haven't looked, but I mean, the card game has exploded in the last 10 years. Are you following it at all or no? No, I don't have time for that shit. Wait, you're not following at all what's going on with the card game? No. Okay, can I shock you with some numbers if that's okay with you? Please.

Okay, can I shock you with some numbers if that's okay with you? Please. Okay, what do you think is the value of the most expensive card in the world today? Just throw a number off. Does Babe Ruth have a card? Babe Ruth's got a card, but it's not the most expensive. Really? Jackie Robinson?

He's got a card, but it's probably not in the top 1,000 of the most expensive. Oh, boy. Yeah. Well, I'm out of guesses. Mickey Mantle has a card. Okay, Mickey Mantle. Okay. How much is that? Is that number one?

His PSA 10 1952 Tops rookie card. There's only three of them. Let me guess. Please. 20 million bucks. 20 million bucks. Really? That's actually the number.

Really? So you do follow cards. No, I just take a guess. Dude, that's like you're on the dot. It's 20 million bucks. I'm good at that. The guy who bought it in 1998, the owner of the Diamondbacks, paid 104 for it in 1998.

From 104 to 20K today. That's a big jump. A Luka credit card, a Luka rookie card, two days after his birthday, at 22 years old, sold for 5.2 million. That's a basketball player, Joe. Yeah, Luka Doncic. He's a great basketball

player. I was going to ask. Thank you. You don't follow basketball. I don't follow sports. I got you. I'm a sports commentator who doesn't follow sports. Dude, you got a card as well. You got a card.

You got a card with the- I know there's a UFC card. There is. I think it's worth some money. Yeah, of course it is. It's worth a couple grand. Yeah. You got a card.

The card industry today is booming. There's a few guys that are doing it the right way. The card business. The private equity business got a card. The card industry today is booming. There's a few guys that are doing it the right way. The card business. Private equity business got into it. They got into it. So, you know, Jordan's rookie cards were selling for like $25,000 a few years ago. And once these – there's only 330 of those PSA 10 rookie cards. These guys got into it.

Next thing you know, it jumped to a couple of them sold for $700,000. Couldn't you fake that? Can you fake a card? Well, the best thing about the card game that changed is there's a grading service called PSA. So PSA, that's based out of Newport, they're not even taking any new cards right now because they can't.

It takes 12 months for you to get graded. They're that busy right now, no joke. And it costs like 50 bucks, 40 bucks, 100 bucks to get cards graded depending on the quality of it. You send it to them, they look at it. And then based on that, like you see this here, that says the PSA stamp, they give it a score. There's a VIN number to it. And then there's a, not a VIN number, but a serial number to it. And then this has got a value. Okay. So PSA changed the game. Beckett grading Service changed the game. BGS, because it used to be dirty. There would be guys that would sell the fake cards and counterfeits.

It was all over the place. But it kind of changed the game in the last few years. You got cards and NFTs today that are, I don't understand NFTs as much as I understand cards. I don't understand NFTs. People keep asking me to get involved in NFTs. I couldn't even tell you about it. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not going to get involved in NFTs. People keep asking me to get involved in NFTs. I couldn't even tell you about it. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not going to get involved in NFTs.

By the way, if you did, you'd probably, in the next 12 months, make $5 million. If you did anything with NFTs, yourself, minimum. I'd say $5 to $10 million you would make because they would sell certain NFTs of stuff you've said on your podcast. Like, the NFT of you and Elon Musk is probably worth $10 million. What does that mean, though? It's probably worth $5 million. I'm not even kidding with you. But this is probably worth 10 million bucks. What does that mean though? That's what it's probably worth. I'm not, I'm not even kidding with you. But what does it mean?

So somebody owns that NFT. It's like somebody owns that card. But how can they own it? What does it mean? Anybody can have it. It's online. So, you know,

the guy that bought a Beeple, do you know Beeple? Yeah. So somebody bought his NFT. I go back and forth with that guy all the time on, on Instagram. He's great. He's very cool guy. Super prolific. forth with that guy all the time on Instagram. He's great. He's a very cool guy.

Super prolific. He's sick. Every day he puts out a new piece of art. 5,000 days is what he did. Amazing. He calls it 5,000 days or something like that. You know what he sold that for? He sold it for like $69 million.

Yeah. Good for him. The guy that bought him is a guy named Meta Coven. He lives in Singapore today. I had him on. And I said, so tell me, what the hell is going on? He's a Bitcoin billionaire, crypto billionaire, one of those guys. By the way, he's like in his late 20s, early 30s.

Okay, this guy. So I said, you paid $69 million for what? He says, what do you mean? I said, that's exactly what I mean. What do you mean $69 million? He says, do you know what's coming next is virtual real estate? I said, virtual real estate means what? Like you have virtual real estate.

People are trying to buy the best virtual real estate means what? Like you have virtual real estate. People are trying to buy the best virtual real estate. And we are making a virtual museum where you're going to have to buy tickets to attend the museum. And the last thing you see at the museum is this Beeple NFT for $69 million. I believe this is a billion-dollar NFT. Okay. So that's what NFT is going to today. I still don't understand. I don't even.

Remember back when I asked you guys about the metaverse a few weeks ago? Yeah. And we went on a fun little thing about it. Yeah. That's where this is headed. Yeah? Yeah. Joe, you probably got, if you get an NFT expert reaches out to you who's got credibility,

he knows what he's doing, you probably got $10 million of NFTs you could sell the next 6 to 12 months. But I don't even know what that means. Well, they would explain it to you. But I don't think they would. Didn't you play Quake before? You used to play Quake before, right? Okay, so when you did Quake, was there anything that you had to buy skins, or was it just a-

I mean, I guess you probably could, but you just mostly downloaded them for free. I don't know, maybe you buy them today. Do you buy them today? Yeah, so today, so imagine those skins, you buy them today. That's all it is. An NFT is that skin. Maybe you buy them today. Do you buy them today? Yeah. So today, so imagine those skins. You buy them today. That's all it is. An NFT is that skin. So you buy that feature. For 50 bucks, you get this additional disc.

For 100 bucks, you get- Right. That's a form of NFT. Say if you're talking about the NFT of me and Elon Musk smoking weed together. But that is available to anyone that wants to watch the YouTube video. Not NFT though. For YouTube, yes. What does that mean though?

I understand that. But this is the thing. If you get a picture off of Google, you could Google Elon Musk smoking weed. You get the photograph of it. It's not the same. You blow it up in a picture. You like watches.

It's like, why is my Apple watch different than any of the watches you have? You know why. Well, mine are mechanical watches. I know, but to me, it's just like, eh. Well, they're the same until the time. I'll be at the bar soon showing everyone my NFT collection on my iPhone or whatever device that thing is, and they'll be like, holy shit.

Do you have any? You got NFTs? We'll talk about it later. So that's a yes. I mean, so I've gotten involved in NBA Top Shot, which is pretty big. I still don't know what they mean. Solid. Right.

Yeah. The first LeBron sold for like $220, right, gotten involved in NBA Top Shot, which is pretty big. I still don't know what they mean. Solid. Right. Yeah. The first LeBron sold for like 220, right? That LeBron Top Shot. I still, I'm not super convinced that's going to be the way it goes. Yeah. But there will be that day when you're sitting there drinking with your friends. Like, what do you got? What do you got?

Well, I've got. Yeah. Holy shit. I don't disagree. Elon Musk, Joe Rogan moment. Like, your friends would freak out. But it's an image on your phone. At that, sort of.

But he's. I'm willing to predict. To be at your house. I'm willing to predict right your house i'm willing to predict right now you'd get five to ten million bucks on it maybe more i'm not even doing it i'm not interested i mean i'm not telling you to do it no i've no i'm just saying the market there's not a world i can imagine where my mind takes a right turn and goes down nft boulevard digital bling that's the best way to i think i don't get it. You want to put the gold chains in your head?

Yeah. Someone wants to buy a bunch of NFTs. I'm interested in that gold chain. Same thing. The gold chain dreadlocks. Have you seen the rapper that got gold chains installed in his head? What is that all about? He's a wild dude.

He's got fucking gold chains for hair. I can't understand that. He also says he's got you. I can't understand that. He'll hook you up. Oh, who's going to hook me up? He found out that we talked about it.'s that? He'll hook you up. Oh, who's going to hook me up? He found out that we talked about it. That guy?

He said he'll hook you up. He's going to hook me up with some hooks on my head to get some gold chains? Yep. Tight. Would you ever do that? Yes! So let me get this straight. You would do that with-

Gold dreadlocks all over my head. Joe Jones up. Oh, I'm in. That's my new look, man. Imagine how bad that would hurt when you did jiu-jitsu? Where all the metal in your head, like every time someone grabs your head, it digs in. I always say to Joe, I go, wow, Joe thinks my hair is dope. Bro, I got you.

Hair implant on me. Wow. So it's going to happen. Yeah, he's going to hook me up. Can you imagine, seriously though, like how bad that would suck? Like if you had to take it out to do jiu-jitsu, you'd have all these metal spikes in your head. How would you be able to do it? I just remember trying to screw those little things in that predator head you had before.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Remember that? That's the same thing. Oh, my gosh. I can't even visualize that. I had this big-ass fucking predator head at the old studio. It had these things. Who's got it? Red Band's got that now, right? Yeah. It's, yeah, not really getting metal hair. Predator had at the old studio. It had these things. Who's got, Red Band's got that now, right?

It's, yeah, not really getting metal hair. I'm not doing that, but I'm kidding. No, no, because it would change all the tattoos people got. It would probably hurt, too. Like whenever anything touched it. That's what I was worried about. Every night you would need to screw it off. Yeah, like when you lie down, just a pillow.

Oh, I don't even want to think about it. Dig into your head. Yeah. How does that dude sleep? I don't know. Yeah, like when you lie to, just a pillow. Oh, I don't even want to think about it. Dig into your head. Yeah. How does that dude sleep? I don't know. Jamie, are you thinking about it? I was hoping you were going to talk him into like the bored apes

and all that kind of stuff. And like if you've seen anyone, like Snoop Dogg is into it. He'll make his new Twitter account picture. The new thing he bought. And the community goes crazy about it. What do you mean? I don't know what you're talking about.

You're fully not open to the NFT stuff. no not you're not interested no why is that it's a weird hustle i think it's like a cryptocurrency hustle it doesn't make any sense are you in crypto or you're not in crypto at all i have a little bit of crypto a little bit got a little bit not much is a little bit a lot of it to other people or is it a little bit a little bit a lot of it to other people, or is it a little bit a little bit? It's a little bit. It's a little bit. You got that small on your face. I don't know what that means. This is what I'm showing you is the marketplace. The Bored Ape Yacht Club.

$341,000. So this is a marketplace to buy this NFT. This is one of the main marketplaces to share and buy NFTs. So that's an NFT, and it's worth $99? No, no. It's an Ether, which is $340,000. That image is worth $340,000? You wouldn't want that image?

I don't understand. It's like Snoop asked who is sending him his ape. He wants the one with all the gold. So someone showed him the one with all the gold. My shit better have all gold, everything. And I don't know that he actually owns this one, but that's how some of these things are going. There are these computer-generated images

that end up looking like someone, and they're like, I want to own it. But here's my problem. I can have that photo, and I can have it on my phone. Sure, but what if you don't own it? Exactly. What does that mean? But I have it on my phone.

This is what doesn't make any sense to me. Like, if you have uh the mona lisa right the mona lisa is on your wall you could stand there and you could look at the paint strokes you can look you're looking at the actual mona lisa yeah that is the object you own that that makes sense to me sure but if it's a print like a photo if it's a photo of the mona lisa and you have it on your phone and you say look i bought this n this NFT of the Mona Lisa, it's worth a half a million dollars. I'll explain it to you. Maybe this way it makes sense. This is how it was explained to me. Maybe this makes sense to you. So you know how if you use a image on your podcast and the next thing you know, Getty

Images comes back and says, you have to pay $500 for this or $1,000 for this or whatever it is, because your guy, let's just say, didn't go take the right route to go get that picture. That's really what that is. You can get that picture, and you can find it on Google, and you can use it, but you have to pay the $500 to the person that owns it. I see what you're saying. So if someone got an NFT of Elon Musk smoking weed on the podcast, they would own the rice that image in perpetuity.

So they could sell that. The NFT of that. Right. They could make T-shirts. Would they have the rights to that image in perpetuity. So they could sell that. The NFT of that. Right. They could make t-shirts. Would they have the copyright on the image? It's not copyright because it's only in that world. It's only in that. You still own it for non-NFT world, but they own it for the NFT world.

You can make an album. If someone has made an album, you have to own the NFT ticket in order to listen to it. And once you listen to it, you can decide to keep it or sell it so someone else can listen to it. But there's only like 10,000 tickets available. There's a cartoon. For example, say ABC is doing a documentary on Elon Musk. They're going to call you and say, hey, JRE, can we use that clip with Elon smoking weed? And they're going to pay you $20,000 for it.

Whatever. The math works. They'll probably reach out to you all the time. This is for NFT. So in the NFT world, they would have to call that guy who paid you $5 million to $10 million. I think in a few years from now, people are going to wake up and they'll go, what the fuck are we paying money for? That's what's going to happen. What is this?

You think? What are we doing? Ready Player One seems sort of like a future to you, right? Yes. This is how you own things in that world. Okay. That makes more sense. Yeah. That makes more sense. That makes a little bit more sense. That's how something own things in that world. Okay, that makes more sense. That makes more sense.

That makes a little bit more sense. That's how something is unique to you. Okay. It follows you around the world. You're still not open to the idea of selling it. No, I'm too busy. I'm not interested. I'll fuck with that.

It would be such a test just to see. Maybe we'll talk someday about this. Yeah, but I'm not the guy to sell it to. It's not my world. But I would be so curious to know what that would do in the market. Yeah, I don't know. It. It's not my world. But I would be so curious to know what that would do in the market. Yeah. I don't know. It seems like a weird money grab.

A lot of people have asked me to tweet their NFT sales. I'm like, it's not interesting. No, of course you don't. No, no, no. Of course you don't. That's a completely different story. It's just all of it. How'd you get involved in doing your show?

How'd I get involved in doing your show? How did I get involved with doing my show? Originally I was making videos, but they were only for my insurance company I started off with Morgan Stanley then I went to transit and I started my own insurance company I was making videos that were unlisted for my guys. And then one day- What year was this? I don't even know 2011 say 20 2011 2012 I'm making videos videos. But it's only internal. If I'm interviewing somebody and my guys would have access to it. One day, one of my guys, Mario, says, Pat, why don't we create a live YouTube channel? See what we can

do with this. I said, okay, cool. So we started a channel and it was called Two Minutes with Pat, is what the show was. We did 100 episodes in two years. Only one of them was two minutes. Everything was 10 minutes, 12 minutes, 15 minutes. And the complaint was Pat, this show is a lie. It's not two minutes with Pat. It's like changing 10 minutes with Pat. So it's okay. We got to change something up. So one day I'm step back. I'm like, I don't know what we do. I say, we call it value attainment. So we changed the channel.

We called it value attainment and the main focus became capitalism and business. So we changed the channel. We called it Valuetainment. And the main focus became capitalism and business. So everything was around business. And then eventually, a couple years later, we're running companies, all this stuff. My life is so busy. I'm like, dude, I'm done creating content. I took a break. And I took 90 days off. We were at like 450,000 subscribers at that time.

Then while we're taking a break, life is peaceful. I have more time. This is a lot of work. People just think you get on here, do podcasts. This is a lot of work for what you do on creating content. So eventually I said, if we come back, I'd like to interview people because I'm so curious. I like people. I like to talk to people.

I want to know what makes them tick. So then we started doing interviews. We interviewed, I think it was Jordan Belfort. We interviewed Michael Francis. And then that became the process of then you got Colby and all these other guys that came about. So it was business, entrepreneurship, interviews with unique personalities around capitalism, CIA, politics, sports, things that I'm interested in, bodybuilding. And then it became what it is today. And just like a year ago, we started a podcast,

which is a complete separate channel than the Valuetainment channel. And that's the podcast we started about a year ago. So that's kind of how it started. So that's an audio-only podcast? No, the podcast is on YouTube. But we put it on audio as well. So it's separate from the Valuetainment. It is.

It's very separate. Why'd you do that? Why'd you make it separate? I don't know. I think it was more, you know, on the pbd podcast i can talk politics i can talk politics on the value team inside they're like dude we didn't sign up here for you to talk politics it was only business so i put that aside and i'm just kind of separating that to be more entertainment more content more you know uh business stuff that's on there that's got you know a few million

subscribers but on the podcast we started fresh and on there. That's got a few million subscribers. But on the podcast, we started fresh. And on the podcast, it's a free-for-all. I'm talking. This is what I'm talking about. I'm sitting there with friends, shooting the shit. And hey, all of a sudden, we're talking movies and we're talking this. Same thing as what you're talking. When I was in the army, one of my favorite things, Joe, that I miss from the army, I was at the army when I left, people ask, what did you miss about the army? The level of freaking camaraderie, just sitting there till three o'clock in the morning. You're having a cigar, you're having whiskey, you're having a drink. You're talking about the craziest thing, you know, almost random things. Some of the best podcasts I've ever done in my life was never

recorded. It's just a good dinner, a good conversation. So then the idea came about, what if we start doing something like that where you can invite friends people that you want to talk to and then that's what led to the podcast so yeah that's essentially similar to the way that comedians are like after shows always just hanging out talking shit having laughs until everybody's so tired we have to go to sleep like when we're on the road doing shows we're always going to dinner late at night and we're always just sitting around making each other laugh, having a good time, just having a couple of drinks. How sick is that? It's fun. It's great.

That was a big part of how the podcast came about was because I have these friends that are fun to just hang out and talk with. And the early days of the podcast, that's all the podcast was. It was just talking to those people, and then eventually it became talking to anybody. How long did you shift until it was ever anybody? Well, I don't remember who the first guest outside of that was Really would have to go back and look at it, but it was slowly I got people that I mean the podcast back then was so small It was just they were being charitable to come on it and do it. And I remember Graham Hancock was one of the first ones. I was very, very interested to talk to him because I was such a gigantic fan of his work.

And, you know, I've always been so fascinated by this idea of lost civilizations. And Graham Hancock's idea is that civilizations at one point in time were at a very high level of sophistication, but were most likely wiped out by some sort of a natural disaster, whether it's an asteroid impact or most likely an asteroid impact. And they look at it. And he got together with this guy named Randall Carlson, and Randall became a frequent guest as well. But Randall's an expert on asteroidal collisions and common impacts

and some of the things that have happened to the world, like undeniably happened over the last X amount of thousands of years. And then they looked at their two work and they combined them together and they found sort of a working map of what's very likely to have happened to civilization somewhere around the neighborhood of 12,000 years ago.

There was like a reset that was probably due to impacts. And it coincides with, they do soil samples, core samples of the earth where they find somewhere around that same time period of 12,000 years, you find the stuff called tritonite, which is a nuclear glass that happens when meteors impact with the earth. Same sort of stuff happens when they do like at the trinity test where they do nuclear explosion tests it's it's this glass that happens when you know the impact immense heat and so there's a lot of like physical evidence that points to this so graham was one of the very first guys that i had on and we talked about a lot of these really amazing ancient artifacts like Chichen Itza and the things that the Olmecs left behind in South America.

Amazing, amazing stuff. And so he was probably one of the first. And then Anthony Bourdain, he came on shortly after that. I started getting really interesting, compelling guests. And then- Did they reach out or did you reach out? I think I reached out. Okay.

I'm pretty sure. I mean, at that point, you're known, though. You've been known for a while. It's not like your podcast made you known. You've been known for 20-some years. Yeah, but it was still charitable for them to do the podcast. I mean, the podcast was at a fucking room in my house. You could hear my daughters yelling in the background at each other because they were

like three and five screaming at each other, having fun. So it was very organic organic sort of the way. There was no plan like, hey, I'm going to develop this thing that's going to be huge. It was never a thought like that. It was just, I just did it. And then as I did it, I kept doing it. And then eventually it became this thing like, whoa, what is this? Did you think it was going to get this big?

No. Seriously. No, no, no. So this is just purely accidental. Just luck. Just luck, just dumb luck timing. And it's sort of converged with my personality. That's, I'm a curious person and I like talking to people. Extremely. Yeah. I mean, I'm very interested in the way people think and what makes a person very good at what they do and what, how do you think about things and how? And how does the way you think about things differ from the way she thinks about things? And let me hear her talk about it.

And then let me hear him talk about a similar thing. I want to hear opposing viewpoints. I like to hear the way people's minds work and the way they think about it. Are you an August baby? Yes. August 11th? Yeah, 11th. 11th, yeah, okay.

Got it. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know if that's real. No. You think that's real? No, I'm just, to me, I'm more numbers than I am about anything else. Like, to me, you know, I hire April babies to me I trust. You know, October babies for me are good with people.

It's very weird when it comes down to stuff like that. How is the, who was the first guest that you got that was like a guest guest? Where you're like, wow, I can't believe I got this guy. First, I got Robert Greene, which to me was very interesting. Robert Greene, the 40 laws of power, 33 strategies of war. I got him, we sat down, I'm like,

and then we ended up becoming friends. It was very interesting talking to the guy. And by the way, politically, he's very on a complete opposite side of where I am, but we had great banter together. And we had him on, again, a couple other times. That was probably the first one. Clint Hill was very interesting to me because this whole thing with JFK, I'm also very curious about what happened with JFK.

Oh, the assassination? Yeah. So I brought Clint Hill. I know you're big on that as well, wanting to find that. I brought Clint Hill. He was one of the first. There was four people in the room when they were dealing with his brain. There was four of them that were in the room.

He was one of the guys, one of two that held JFK's brain, Jim Jenkins. And he stayed quiet for 50 years. Quiet guy, married to the same wife. They didn't want to say anything. And the stories he said, very interesting stories he said, that was Jim Jenkins. And then I interviewed clint hill clint hill was a secret service agent the first guy that jumped on the car when uh uh when when he called when jfk got shot and uh he gave me his perspective and you know that interview was

fascinating with clint hill uh and then it led to many other guys that we had but uh you know obviously if there's interest the audience will feel it. Just like probably when you do an interview, there's an interest. There's a part of it that's going to pull because of you, that you're interesting, but there's a part of it that's also going to pull if you're really interested in the topic that the individual is talking about. You know, I remember one time I had a conversation with a guy that was from space, you know, was a astronaut. And what was his name? Scott Kelly. Okay. And we had a conversation together.

It was a 35-minute interview. I was like, within 35 minutes, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. There's no more interest here for what's up for me because I'm not one that's fascinated by space at that time. I wasn't at that time. Okay. And then I had the, what's his name? Greer. Is it Greer?

Am I saying the name correctly? Stephen Greer. Stephen Greer. The UFO guy. By the way, fascinating. Complete different way of a guy telling stories than Scott was telling a story. Then you do bodybuilding. Ronnie Coleman, you sit down and talk to Ronnie Coleman to think about it.

Ronnie Coleman's amazing. Dude, it's just ridiculous. And you talk about Dorian Yates and some of these guys. And then you talk to Yonomi Park and you see somebody that goes through what their life is. And I know you had a run, which was a fascinating interview. What a crazy world. Yeah, same thing about level of curiosity

of how certain people make it to certain levels in life and what makes them tick. How did they come up with their idea? Even the mob with these interviews with mob. Michael Franchese. Yeah, Michael Franchese. When I did the interview the first time with him, you know, accidentally. Michael Franciso. Yeah, Michael Franciso, when I did the interview the first time with him, and we had no idea what was gonna happen.

And then the interview does very well. And then I call Sammy Debo Gravano, and I say, hey, Sammy, you know, I just talked to Michael Franciso. I know who the fuck you are, you know, I'm like, so what'd you think about the interview? What'd I think about the interview? Let me tell you what I thought about the interview.

And then he just went off. Went off. Two hours on a phone call. Furious that I even interviewed Michael. Really? Yeah, furious. I'm like, Sammy. You shouldn't have interviewed him? Yeah, anyway, so yeah, he didn't want me to interview him.

So he's like, he's not at this, he's not at this. I said, Sammy, fair enough. Then how about you and I sit down and let me see your perspective. How about you and I dinner? and let me see your perspective. How about you and I? I would never interview with nobody. Do you remember the last time I got any of it was with Diane Sawyer? Do you know what happened in 1994? What makes you think I would interview with you?

Anyways, so we ended up- Cut to. Yeah, cut to. Cut to, we first met him. We go to this building in Phoenix. And he says, meet me at this place. Give me an address last minute. I go there and walk into this building.

Keep going. Walk into the building. Keep going. Room's getting dark. At this point, we're like, some shit's about to go down. This is my career. So I'm like, call my wife and tell her, babe, I love you. Exactly.

And then there he shows up. You know, there is Sammy. We had the conversation. Finally, he agreed to do the interview. And then now Michael and Sammy, Rudy Giuliani, and Chaz Palminteri are doing the, what do you call it, the narrating. And that's now the sit down between the two that's coming up. The mob world is interesting. You know, how they do what they do, their world, you know, what values they live by, you know, what happened to it. It's an interesting world. Everybody has a different thing. That's fascinating

to me. So, you know, and then accidentally different topics show up, you know, that Iran became very interesting to me because of the life I lived and what happened with Jimmy Carter after he did the toast on December 31st of 77. He leaves. Twelve months later, Kissinger says, don't worry, Shah, we have your back in the greatest revolution of all time without the main four criterias that caused the revolution. Happens in Iran. And then the Shahs kicked out exile after he changed all the things with Iran. Yes, he had Savak. Yes, he didn't do everything right. But then that takes place. And you wonder why that happened.

And then you realize in 1954, the guy signed a 25-year deal with Germany, with the UK, with US, and I think it's Italy or France on an oil deal that these guys had a meeting in 77 to figure out a way to get rid of him because he knew the oil prices were going to go up if Shah was going to be there. All of these interesting things, you know, it's like you're digging in because it's part of it is your history, you know, part of it is my history. And I'm curious to know what happened there, but that's this world. And if other people find interest in what you're interested in, then you're lucky. Because you find the audience that's interested in the same things you're interested in.

Well, I'm interested in things that people are passionate about. Like if someone's just into making tables and the way they talk about making tables. If I can listen. If I can listen to someone talk about anything, rolling cigars, whatever the fuck it is that you're interested in, when someone has a passion for something, it resonates with you and the way you think about the things you're passionate about. People are fascinating. And I think the more people you talk to, the broader your understanding of yourself is because you get a chance to see, you know, these different human beings and the way they interface with reality. It's very educational.

I mean, I've had a better education from doing this podcast over the last 11 years than anything else I've ever done in my life by far. Do you read a lot? And if yes, when do you read? Like, when do you find time to read? I do a lot of books on tape, but I do read too. Like when do you find time to read? I do a lot of books on tape, but I do read too.

I read a lot, you know, like it depends on like if I have guests that are coming in and they have something that's heavy that I have to get into. Like sometimes, you know, I'll have a physicist on that has some book on cosmology or something like that, an astrophysicist. And so I go, okay, I got to understand what the fuck they're talking about. And so instead of just like trying to have them lead the conversation, I must have some sort of an understanding of what their field of expertise is. So there's that. Or sometimes I kind of have a general sense of a subject, and I like to go in cold. I like to not read what they're talking about because I want to be the curious person that goes really okay well how does that work like what is this yeah i want to be in the moment you decipher between the two though i don't know i just treat it like

uh i just go on instinct you know like uh if someone comes along like there's a woman on the other day that wrote a book on addiction. And I'm very familiar with that subject. I'm very interested. She was talking about dopamine. Opioids. Yeah. So for me, I just wanted to talk to her.

So for me, I felt like that was one of those conversations I just wanted to be enthusiastic and fresh and just trying to ask her what it means or why people do things or what's what are the triggers. And it really completely depends on the conversation. And the wide variety of guests is completely up to me, which is the most fascinating part about it. So it's only people that I'm interested in. Good for Spotify, by the way meaning good for them to you know say joe go do joe you know and you know you do your thing because a lot of people

are like well joe can't talk about this joe can't talk about that's not true i would actually say you probably talk about more stuff that's controversial the last three months than you did when you were just on youtube so the part That's just because the world has gotten more controversial. I've changed nothing. And Spotify has asked me to change nothing. But that's the part. Yeah. Kudos to them.

No, they've been amazing. Yeah. I'm very happy with them. I'm very happy. Especially when you tell me things like interviews that you do get removed off of YouTube. Yeah. You know, that's not happening to me. There's none of that happening.

And I love that. Spotify has given me no pushback whatsoever. That's great. It's been amazing. That's, what that does is, that's a form of competition, what you just said. That is a form of competition for YouTube. Because you leaving YouTube, they're like, shit, what do we do next if the next guy wants to leave that business model? And that's kind of why I think, you know, you know twitter facebook some of these guys need some competition because if it doesn't

want workplace you know they're gonna they're gonna go to a different place option wise spotify has terms of terms and conditions they have those but they're not censorship oriented that they're they're abusive oriented like if you're doing something that's abusive if you're abusing people you're you know you're promoting hate you're doing something that's abusive, if you're abusing people, you're promoting hate, you're promoting something horrible. That's not true. But that's where Spotify draws the line, which is incredibly reasonable. What YouTube is doing is arbitrary. They're censoring people based on what they believe people should and should not talk about.

Like someone who's talking about, like Robert Kennedy, who has differing opinions about vaccines, or like whatever the fuck it is, whether it's about election fraud or lab leak theory, whatever it is that they were censoring, that they're removing from YouTube, QAnon stuff. There's no threat of that on Spotify. Spotify is not an American company. They're from Stockholm.

They have a different sensibility. Good for them. Listen, I'm very, very happy. Very happy with them. When you left YouTube, did they ever reach out to you? Was there ever a meeting you had with the guys

at the top or no? There was a conversation between my management and some of the people at YouTube, but it was very cordial and they were great. There was no problems at all. They just,

they would have, their only complaint, I think, was that they wanted to know why did I just leave? Why didn't I talk to them before I left? Oh, you had the convo after you left. Yeah.

I just announced it. I got it. I just announced it. But if you're their face, were they calling you, hey, Joe, is there anything else we can do for you? Is there anything you need help with? We had very fortunate and open communication with a member. So, like, someone from YouTube was in communication with us. It was great. I have no complaints. The complaints were random

demonetizations of videos that were arbitrary. It didn't make sense. Like my friend Tom Papa, for whatever reason, his podcast got demonetized all the time. And he's like the nicest guy on the planet. Totally uncontroversial. Didn't't make any sense but maybe like there was a swear in the first five minutes or something like it didn't make any sense like it's it's you have some person whose decision it is to whether or not something is demonetized or not whether you make money or you don't make money and it didn't make sense. And to me, it seemed wrong. Here's what's ironic, or here's what's unusual.

The moment I leave to Spotify, there was a three month period where I was on both YouTube and Spotify. I remember that. During that three month period, none of my videos got demonetized. On YouTube? None of them. That was from what, June to September? It was a 25% increase in the amount of revenue that was generated So they were holding my revenue generated on YouTube back 25% due to arbitrary demonetization and this is what I think the purpose of that is I think it's to encourage self censorship

I think it encourages people to self censor so that you don't get demonetized. Self-censor. Self-censor. I got you. Self-censor. The talent. Exactly. Got it.

You hold back because you don't want to miss out on that money. And they let you know, hey, we're going to demonetize videos. It's effective for most. Yeah. So it's still going out, but it's demonetized. It never affected me at all. I didn't change a fucking thing. I'm never going to.

Of course not. Yeah. But I would never. I'm not going to. I never would. Never did. I don't think you would keep the loyalty if you did. You didn't change a fucking thing. I'm never going to, but I would never, I'm not going to, I never would never did. I don't think you would keep the loyalty. If you did, you can't, if you want, look, if you're going to do a podcast like this, you gotta be willing to talk about all sorts of uncomfortable and weird subjects. You gotta be able to talk about things you're actually

interested. You gotta be able to talk about things that are controversial. You gotta be able to, you gotta be able to expose light on injustice. You have to be able to show something like, Hey man, this is fucked up. They're saying this is one thing, but it's not, and we're going to prove it. We're going to show it to you. If you don't do that, then the audience can't trust me anymore. So if I'm holding back and I'm not saying things because I'm worried about being demonetized, the whole show is fucked. What feedback do you give to influencers or content creators like yourself that are running a podcast on YouTube?

What feedback do you give to them both short-term, mid-term, and long-term? It's very, very hard because of the censorship. I can't really tell you what to do or what not to do because, look, Brett Weinstein and Heather Hying, that Dark Horse podcast, the whole podcast has been demonetized. Whole podcast. Completely demonetized. Whole podcast. Completely demonetized. Based on what premise? Based on because they're saying controversial things about certain therapeutic drugs that are used for COVID. Haven't both of them also taken vaccine, though?

No. So Brent hasn't taken vaccine. No, neither one of them are vaccinated. Got it. No, but because of their discussions about ivermectin, because of their discussions about initially the lab leak theory, because of their discussions about there's some other controversial things

that they've discussed. Viruses mutating. There's a lot of different things that they've discussed that whatever it is, the powers that be have decided that these conversations can't take place on YouTube. Now, they can't stop them from taking place on YouTube because they're not saying anything that's technically wrong.

And they are evolutionary biologists. So what they've decided to do instead is to punish them. Dude, that's scary. I mean, you know, some can afford that. No. Well, I don't know if they can afford it. Luckily, their book now is number two on the New York Times bestseller list. Good for them.

Which is fantastic for them. Yeah, good for them. But that is one of the reasons why I left. One of the reasons why I left is like, I had an opportunity to be, you know, the way Spotify looks at it, when I do well, they do well. Like they, I, you know, I'm under contract with them. Like it's a good thing for them if the show does well. YouTube's under contract with a fucking billion people.

If they can tell one guy, shut the fuck up, don't talk about ivermectin, or shut the fuck up, don't talk about Fauci, or shut the fuck up, don't talk about the election, they can do whatever they want. They can do whatever they want. And they just demonetize you. And in doing so, they encourage people to self-censor. And they just demonetize you and in doing so they encourage people to self-censor So they when the subject of certain things come up to this day There's independent news channels on YouTube that when they discuss like ivermectin for bit for instance They don't say the word they won't say it because if they say it they'll be flagged So they say you know that drug that we're not allowed to speak about and then they'll go on and discuss it

This is how weird it's got. Dude, that's very weird. Very weird. That's very weird. So to independent people that are coming up right now, I don't have any advice for them other than stick to your guns and become undeniable. Be undeniable. Be so good that people want to tune in and they want you-

Great feedback. That's great feedback. They want you to listen. They want to listen to you, rather. They say, this is compelling. This is interesting. I'm watching a human being that's actually engaging with other human beings in a very honest and provocative way. And you're having these conversations that are interesting, and I'm getting something out of it.

I'm getting a real value out of it. Would you say avoid speaking in absolutes? Sometimes. But, I mean, you absolutely shouldn't fuck babies. There's a lot of absolutes sometimes but i mean you know you absolutely shouldn't fuck babies you know like there's a lot of absolutes out there absolutely shouldn't murder old ladies there's a lot of absolutes but i think in terms of i mean i'm talking specifically you know like where this is the cure you know this is what happened this is this you only talk about absolutes if you know them to be true right like if there's certain things that like there's certain things if you have an area of expertise where you know this

just to be a absolute rock solid fact like here's a fact it absolutely iphones are made at the foxconn factory in china there's absolutely nets around that factory because people were committing suicide so often they had to put fucking nets around the building. So those kinds of absolutes, like if you know things like that, yeah, say them. But if you tell people you absolutely should do this, you absolutely should do that. No, I think you should speak truthfully as often as possible. You should really do it always. And when you can't be truthful, just keep your fucking mouth shut. That's good feedback.

That's good feedback. But the challenge long term is going to be what happens there. Because even Susan's got a tough job. You know, like Susan, the CEO of YouTube. She's got a terrible job. Terrible job. And you saw when they did that 160 minutes where the lady's asking her question. I don't know if you saw that. No, I didn't see it.

Oh, dude, it's fascinating. She says, why are you letting people who are not expert journalists say whatever they want to say on their channels? What are you talking about? Like she literally said that. You know which lady it was? That one lady that once interviewed Trump in his penthouse. And she said, Trump, I think you should do this and Trump said well let me do the job I'm the president you're not I'm gonna do whatever I'm gonna do I

don't know if you remember that interview with Trump with that one lady yes older attractive white lady who's very well spoken and they did that one interview where Trump got up and walked out yeah 42 minute interview some some interview like that that lady's telling Susan why are you letting just anybody create content there? Can you imagine, like hey, because the professionals at CNN, MSNBC, these are the professionals. Let them do the professional job.

Yeah, the cat videos are fine. Yeah, the bodybuilding videos are fine, but not people who have opinions that are going up against professional experts like us. Well, here's the problem. The problem is the people that are not professionals are now having a far larger audience. Oh, it's a beautiful thing.

It's crazy. Beautiful thing. It's crazy. It's eclipsed them in an enormous way to the point where they're attacking content creators. Whenever I get attacked by CNN, I always look and I go, look at that. They got to attack me now. They love you, though. It's funny.

They love you. Oh, they think so? You're their favorite person. Oh, that's sweet. I think it's a love affair. Oh, that's sweet. They love... I think it's a love affair. Oh, that's sweet. I think they're infatuated with you. They can't get you out of their minds.

Well, it's... They're looking for things to be outraged about. You know, Trump was their guy for a long time. And now it's anybody. It's fair game. They're trying to find anybody who's outrageous, whether it's Jim Brewer. Like, Jim Brewer just was on Tucker Carlson talking about vaccine mandates at comedy shows and stuff, and now they're attacking him.

I saw that, yeah. There's just a lot of outrage journalism out there. There's things to be outraged about, like Afghanistan. There's things to be outraged about, like, you know, you could go down the list. We could do this all day long. But what they're actually doing is just trying to get people to pay attention to them you know they're not looking at specific significant moments in our culture in our society and analyzing them objectively and intelligently they're not

doing that they're just they're just outrage mongers credibility you wonder like does it still work like do people still sit there and say they're right do people still sit there and some people do some people do what what do you think the split is you think it's more than 55 60 percent no that's why their audience is so small their audience is tiny got it you know they did a brian stelter they now analyze one of brian stelter's shows in the the big audience you know the the 18 to 54. There's like 100,000 people. Oh, no. Do you remember the one guy that got on his show and he told him, he says, people like you.

It's people like you is the problem. You're the problem. Yeah. So you need to make fewer statements, ask more questions. You make way too many statements. It's true. Yeah. The author, I don't know who it was that said that.

Maybe it was even Bob Woodward. It's true. But it's also, they're also a prisoner of the format. The format sucks. Okay, you have a small soundbite. You have a small segment. The segment's five, seven minutes long, and then you go to commercial. Then you come back, you got a new subject.

What the fuck is that? How are you going to talk about it? You and I, we talked about everything. We've already done three hours. We've talked about everything. Everything from business to politics to why people have different philosophies in life. These things have to be parsed out over long periods of time. In order for me to know how you feel about something, I got to sit down with you.

I agree. We got to talk. I agree. A long time. That's how human beings talk. What you get in those little short bursts is performative sort of statements. Yeah, you get something that might highlight on YouTube. But that's also why I don't agree with the current debate format that we have for presidential

debates. It's terrible. It's a terrible format. It's terrible. Terrible format that they have. That's why I propose, Joe, a Trump-Obama sit-down. Well, Obama's not going to be president again, so having him as a- It's just because he's the face.

That's the only reason. Look, I would do it. I was willing to have Trump and Bideniden in together and trump tweeted it and i was like oh jesus what have i said you know trump biden is like seeing oh you're an asshole yeah it would be it would be hilarious the crazy thing is they're basically the same age and trump's fat and meanwhile he's just go go go speaks great a whole different level he doesn't look like he's slowing down no yeah he's the one guy that made it through four years in the white house didn't even look like he aged dude in florida we'll sit there and you see these boats come by you know i don't know if you've seen the flags they're brutal

they're everywhere they they destroy biden in florida with the flags but trump's everywhere the santa's everywhere trump the santa's everywhere. DeSantis everywhere. Trump, DeSantis everywhere. They love him in Florida. They do. But they fucking hate him in California. It's like the world. That's the weird thing. It's like people get locked into a tribe and they're very, very tribal with their politics

in this country. And when you love Trump, you love Trump. And you hate him, you hate him. I mean, he's the most polarizing guy of all time. They want to convert all these red states into blue states. That's what they want to do. You're always going to have red states. You're always going to have blue states. That's not the way. The way is not converting red states into blue states. The way is recognizing that we are supposed to be the United States of America. We're supposed to be a community. We're supposed to all be on the same team. We're

supposed to love each other. We can have a difference of opinion about politics and finance and all sorts of different things, but still recognize that we are all Americans. We are some of the most fortunate people that have ever lived ever in the history of the world. We are literally in the golden era of life. Even now during a pandemic, it's still a far better place to live than most of what human beings have experienced throughout history. We're incredibly fortunate. We've got to be fucking kinder to each other. We've got to treat each other like we're all on the same team. That's one of the problems with social media and the division that it sort of encourages.

This polarization and the fucking conflict that the algorithms encourage. It's just people are buying into it too much. And you've got to get away from that shit. Move away and just talk to real people out there in the real encourage. It's just people are buying into it too much. And you got to get away from that shit. Move away and just talk to real people out there in the real world. I agree. It's one of the reasons why podcasts like yourself and your show is so popular because you're talking to people. Yeah, I appreciate that.

And obviously, same as yours, man. This has been a great conversation here today. I enjoyed it. I enjoy your show. You're really good at it. And I'm glad we got together. Thank you for the invite. I appreciate it. I appreciate you about it. Thank you. I appreciate you too. You're really good at it. And I'm glad we got together. Well, thank you for the invite. I appreciate that.

I appreciate you about it. Thank you. I appreciate you too. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.