The Joe Rogan Experience - #1754 - Suzanne Santo

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

Suzanne Santo is an actress, model, and singer-songwriter. Her latest album, "Yard Sale," is available now.

the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day so cheers my friend so good to see you you too these wildest of times oh my god the, right? I have no words for it. No one does. And your words change. And, you know, you see a lot of people that are trying to say things because they want to assure themselves.

And then they want to find other people that agree with them. This is why Twitter is such a dangerous thing for people who are mentally unstable during these trying times. You watch people lose their minds. Yeah. Well, it's a form of escapism. It is, but it's also they're trying to find some stability in a time where there is no stability. And there's some people that are very uncomfortable with the unknown.

They're very uncomfortable with things being like in a state of flux. They don't know how this is going to work out. And they get serious anxiety. You know, because some people, they're just not good under pressure. And this is a thing where everyone's under pressure. Yes, yes. So you see all these people that are freaking the fuck out. Oh, I know.

Those folks haven't had to deal with pressure. Right. I mean, like think about yourself. You've had to deal with a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I did that. You've had to deal with a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I did thrive under pressure. I do. And like, you know, I, you know, witnessed the challenge in front of me. And then I'm like, well, what the fuck are you going to do? Are you going to freak out? And I have like a nice bandwidth for my, you know, understanding with myself. So I've I went through all that last year. Like, I really like, you know, I didn't tour at all in 2020. And so like I was alone a lot and I had to like work on some shit.

That's rough. And, you know, what's interesting is I did this thing where I like figured some stuff out. Because like when you're on the road, you know, you can just like leave your shit. Like you're just busy. Like what's in front of you is a show. And you're entertaining and you're exhausted. You don't sleep that much. And it's go, go, go, go, go.

And then when like time stopped last year, I was like, oh, man, I got all this baggage. I got to unpack it and I don't want to. But I did. And it was like kind of profound. And when I decided to move to Austin, I that was like part of this thing that I just discovered of like great change that needed to take place in my life. the love of my life when I got here, which is crazy because I had just signed on to this autonomous plan of not dating anyone for nine months. Like I, and like I did it for a couple months and it was awesome. It was like the best I'd ever felt, like making sure it was just me. No one, I'm not letting anybody in. This is, I've got something I have to do. And then when I stop caring about it is when I, like, the stars aligned, if you will. And I feel that way about the anxiety around my career.

Like, the more I'm like, I have no control over what's happening. They cancel my shows, whatever, you know. Like, I was getting really sad about it. I was getting really sad about it. I was getting really anxious and depressed. And then like the more I'm just, like you said earlier, you know, this challenge of what I can't do. Like it's actually kind of nice. I'm just letting it go. I'll take what I can get.

I see what you're saying. It's like you found like a balance in yourself and then you met someone like that's that's like the if you would talk to like a psychologist clearly i'm not one of those but if you could i would give you some bad advice i'd be like fucking suck it up be the worst psychologist ever but i i think they would all tell you that that's when you're going to make your healthiest choices because you're comfortable with yourself. It's like when people get desperate, right? That's one of the things, like, an attractive person could be desperate and it makes them unattractive. Totally.

It's the weirdest thing about human nature. It's like we can't attribute it all to, like, the shape of a face or the shape of a body. There's something about a person, the way they hang out, the way they talk to you like you're not compatible with everybody you know and in some people they just have a hard time syncing up and when they they they come off desperate and then everybody gets grossed out it's like do you know that there's a thing i've really struggled with that on the receiving end of like feeling like I owe people that energy.

Well, you're very kind. That's why you're a very kind person. And I'm getting better at saying no. But that was like a really hard thing for me to to not like just like, you know, run myself ragged trying to be whatever someone expected of me. When at the end of the day, I was like, I don't like this. I'd rather remove myself from the situation But I'm late bloomer there No one really knows how to do it because everybody's like whoever you are now like Hopefully no matter how old you are when you listen to this whoever you are now is the best version of yourself

But we don't all start at the same starting point that's it's a hard thing to recognize but as i've gotten older and hopefully a little bit wiser i've recognized that in more and more people it's like we all start at a different spot and it everybody's got their own challenges and weird fucking journey so what it takes for you to just get your shit together and even if it's not in comparison to how you have your shit together in 10 years, you know, hopefully you'll be better at it in 10 years, but we're all like,

ah, well, it's that waiting thing. That's where you get fucked up because like I'm, if I'm waiting for the success I've always wanted or the return I want to see on my hard work, I'm going to be miserable. So like the choice is, well,, I'm going to be miserable. So like the choice is, well, what are you going to do with that, that worry or that, that energy? And so,

and I mentioned this earlier, like I have to create, I have to create, I have to make music and wherever that, that lands, wherever that music goes, you know, obviously I have some say in it, but a lot of it isn't up to me, especially now since everything's digital and, you know obviously i have some say in it but a lot of it isn't up to me especially now since everything's digital and you know it just goes where it goes you know if it goes viral or whatever that means anymore um but uh well at least you can create like imagine being like a crazy actor and not being able to work for a year like you can't act like there's some people that they have to do whatever it is they do can't act like there's some people that they have to do whatever it is they do whether it's acting or comedy or whatever singing they feel like that's them that's their identity and if you take away their identity for like a whole year like people

can really struggle with who the fuck they are you don't get the thing that you love to do you can't do whatever it is like so many things were taken away from people so many things that people enjoyed doing live performance was a big one right yeah so we all went kind of crazy yeah they took our medicine away yeah yeah isn't it weird like you realize what first of all you realize a that that can happen and then you like when it keeps happening for long periods of time you start going wait a minute why am i giving up agency to other humans that are making poor choices? Yeah. Poor choices for the economy,

poor choices socially, poor choices for how we look at life and risk. Like what do we do? And then how much faith are we putting in pharmaceutical companies? Yeah. I mean, now all of a sudden you have to lift a finger. You have to stop being a baby and you have to actually like do your work,

like have an understanding and have discernment. And a lot of us don't have that. You just can't give up control. The thing that everybody's worried about now is us moving into some sort of a digital social passport system. Yeah. That is 100% possible. That can happen.

We have to be really careful about that. And people are like, why would that be such a bad idea? Who says that? People do. People are saying it. God, it's terrifying. The same people that don't, regardless of how you feel about vaccines,

regardless of how you feel about vaccines, the real problem is having a mandate. The real problem is telling someone you have to do something. Correct. Even if you're right, The real problem is having a mandate. The real problem is telling someone you have to do something. Correct. Even if you're right, the real problem is telling someone that they have to do something. And this one's a weird one. Especially when there's no proof that any of this works. Well, there's proof that it works. It definitely, the vaccines, when they're working on people, definitely seem to improve their outcomes they definitely make whatever the the illnesses

they make it less severe but so does being in shape so does having a high level of vitamin D I'm not saying it imparts the same amount of protection but it's a protection that's ignored they know now and they've known for a while that COVID attacks fat cells

there was a New York Times piece about it the other day. But you don't hear this like expressed over and over again in the news like you hear all these other things. Like a new pill coming out or a new this or you got to do that or make sure you do this and triple mask and whatever it is. They don't tell you, well, here's a sign that for sure if you're overweight, we should fix this collectively. We should talk about this the same way we talk about all these other pandemics. Let's talk about the pandemic of people just not being healthy. Yeah. Well, you know, that becomes this touchy subject of like the way, you know, be yourself is celebrated and, you know, being healthy is anti. It's very weird. It's very backwards. The be yourself is celebrated i get it

because here's the thing most people that are like severely overweight are like i'm again not a psychologist but i would i would say there's issues other than just the physical that like make you want to eat that much food right it's it's a crazy addiction whether i mean it's and i don't think it's much different than all the other ones, the gambling ones, or whatever drug ones. It's a similar thing, I think. And you can't just expect people to fix it on their own. So this whole like, you know, you're okay being you movement,

you're beautiful as you are, it's good psychologically for these people because the conceit is that these people are damaged. Right, that something's wrong that's why you're you've eaten all this horrible food whether it's something's wrong with it education wise or whether it's something wrong emotionally like someone hurt your feelings and put you in a bad place in life or you grew up in a household that's shitty or that has poor food choices and whatever the fucking thing is obviously you, you and I are different than those folks.

But why? We should definitely appreciate each other. But we also should be honest. And we should say, we can all fix this. We can fix this body thing. Yeah, it's difficult. For some people at least. I know, I know.

And it's very sensitive. And at the end of the day, some of the people I care about that are overweight, it's difficult because it feels like you're watching someone hurt themselves in a way that there are other choices for healthier outcomes. But it's weird.'s like it's such a taboo you know you can't really say anything and no you can't um yeah it's really tricky people get super super offended by it yeah you know it's like if you it's not that much different than a cigarette thing but if you tell cigarette people they're like i know i know well it's sort of the question is like are you happy and if they are then like fucking hands off not my call right and if you say no i'm not i'm actually really

uncomfortable or i'm miserable or well then there's another conversation to be had but again it's like it's so much easier to say that to an alcoholic you know be like hey i see you really destroying yourself and i love you and i'm here for you what can i do to help you you know it's so much more socially acceptable for that right um but it's yeah it's a body shaming issue that's it you know it's a shame that's not the case i would never do that to anybody it's not about shame it's about concern and care for your well-being, you know, like that's it. Yeah. The bad feeling is what we're trying to avoid, right?

We're trying to avoid people having a bad feeling. Yeah. I think there's ways to, you know, address the positive aspects of losing weight and not so much the negative aspects of being fat. You could explain to people and they could do the math themselves. Instead of like pointing, you know, you could tell them that they probably could use it. But let them figure it out on their own. But the most important thing is like get everybody fucking doing something. You know, I realized this just over the last few days because, you know, over Christmas

break, family was over and there was a lot of food and I ate like a whole pie. What kind of pie? I ate so much. I ate of food and I ate like a whole pie. What kind of pie? I ate so much. I ate so much. I ate everything. I ate pumpkin. I ate cherry. So you ate more than one pie?

Oh, no. I ate a lot. Collectively. Suzanne, I have a real problem with food. So I understand people that are overweight. Yeah, but you've got the metabolism of a dragon, so you're fine. But I work it off. You've got the metabolism of a dragon, so you're fine.

But I work it off. And I do also, I do little tricks. Like I don't eat for like 24 hours after I eat something horrible like that. I see. I let it burn through my system. But I'm so stupid because I pay the punishment. Like I felt like shit. Yeah, yeah. For the rest of the day, I felt like shit.

Did you get a headache or anything? Like the sugar stuff? I just was exhausted. I was like, ugh. Yeah, I felt gross too. This is what I felt like. Just, ugh. Yeah, yeah. Just, I had a whole pie in me.

At least one pie. I had so much pie. Did you work out too much or did you take the day off? No, there's too many, there's family over, there's too much, wake up,

too much high, how's everybody doing thing. Yeah, yeah. Having fun. But it was, I, but just a few days.

If I just go three days with no working out, I start to feel it. No working out and eating pie. Yeah. I feel like shit. You feel awful. That's just three days.

Yeah, but all your chemicals are fucked up. Your endorphins are. Exactly. You're not getting your serotonin and all that stuff. It's basically like pulling the cork out of the bottom of your bathtub. Just pop. And all the fucking you juice just runs down through the drain. All the you juice and the pie and the key lime.

Whatever makes you you. It just all runs on E. It's like, brr. Because you are you when you're feeling your best, right? That's the best version of you. You definitely don't have that after you eat a pie. Well, here's how I feel about those designated food party days and drinking. I have to tell myself in advance,

you're going to eat like a dickhead. And just no complaining. You know what you're going to do. I'm a sweet, salty kind of gal, so I'll eat the pie and then eat some Fritos. But then I want the sweet stuff again. And it's a cycle. And I have to prepare myself and know this is the day,

and then tomorrow you're you know back at it but it's yeah I feel you I felt like I had a headache on Christmas

because I ate so many cookies and yeah no I was just like it's poison you know it's poison I know

your body's like what the fuck is this isn't it funny that we've created something that almost everybody loves that's terrible for you? Like a cookie. Like one of them giant ones. Yeah. Oh, my God.

But they're so good. Yeah. Well, it's funny. Like cultures are, you know, wrapped around food in this way that's really interesting. Like, you know, you go to the South or like, you know, New Orleans, you get beignets and stuff like that. Yeah. You're like, you have to get a donut you get beignets and stuff like that. Like you, like you have to get a donut and you gotta get barbecue.

Yeah. Yeah. And like that shit fucks me up, man. Like I love it, but I'm, I have a super sensitive stomach and, um,

you know, it's interesting how you have these obligations sometimes in that way. Whereas like, you know, no one's putting a gun to your head. No, but if you want pizza and it's right there you want that pizza did you see the video that i put on my instagram i did that was a little

baby eating pizza for the first time how adorable is that that little face can you play it for me that little face because this is not an act yeah this is a baby baby i said it's it's a baby baby genuine yeah so when she rolls her eyes back while she's eating that pizza, it's like no one feels happier. No one taught her how to do that. No one taught her how to do that. That was a natural reaction. But it's so bliss. Because if that was a commercial for your pizza, holy shit, would you make a fucking billion dollars off that pizza?

Just from that ad. You know, I was just telling my man yesterday, I said I never order pizza. And I grew up, you know, my family owned an Italian restaurant, so we had pizza like four times a week and pasta and, and it was part of our, our lives. Um, but I always had stomach aches, but I'd still eat it. And like, you know, my mom would be like, you're faking. I'd be like, no, my stomach really hurts. And, and to this day, have that white bleach flour gluten in a pizza or a burrito, I'm totally fucked. I'm incapacitated for a few hours. It's glue.

I know. It's glue. You're eating glue. Yeah, I know. So I realized that there was this time in my life where I ate that stuff all the time and I love it. Yeah. But it's just, you know, if I want to suffer, I will eat it. And I'll probably enjoy it for a minute before it all goes downhill.

Have you ever had any of that? There's a certain kind of grain. I can do some gluten-free sometimes. It's okay. But there's a certain type of gluten. There's a certain kind of grain. I can do some gluten-free sometimes. It's okay. But there's a certain type of gluten. There's a certain type of flour. What is it called? Double O flour?

Is that what it's called? It's a non-genetically modified flour. Okay. Now, again, I'm a moron, but Maynard Keenan told me this, and he actually grows food. He grows wine and makes his own wine and shit. Okay, excellent. Yeah, he's got a vineyard, Caduce wine and makes his own wine and shit yeah he's got a vineyard caduceus vineyard it's like he knows his shit that's amazing and he said that essentially what used to happen was they used to have like a very low yield grain and over the years of

fucking with it they've turned into a very high yield grain yeah but it has more of these glutens in it more whatever the whatever a complex but is that specifically to the us or because you know you go to europe they have different flour let's watch this baby yeah no their flour is different i don't think they're i don't think their flour is as modified as ours watch this little baby she takes a bite. Mmm. That baby's just pure bliss. Look at this baby. Look at her close her eyes and lean her head back.

It's amazing. Wow. It's so adorable. I know it. Oh, my God. That's pure bliss. That baby so adorable. I know it. Oh, my God. That's pure bliss. That baby's like, yes, yes. And this is where it starts.

Yeah. Pure bliss. Like, oh. When she was doing that with her lips, too, like, oh, Jesus, this is so good. I mean, can't really blame her. I just love when things are like that, when you see, like, a like a pure expression like you can't teach a kid that that's just she's just that's who she is

she didn't know how it looks when she makes that face she just ate the pizza and she's like oh yeah kids are amazing like that though with joy you know what's amazing about kids is like they can take a compliment like when you say hey that's pretty cool and they're take a compliment yeah like when you say hey that's

pretty cool and they're like yeah i'm the best you know and and like no adult would ever say that because whenever we get a compliment we always say something bad about ourselves right i do it's something i've had to work on and say thank you instead of like but kids are you know their joy is is until you know they reach a certain age or, you know, you know, hopefully nothing bad happens, but like the, the joy in them is, is amazing. It's so beautiful. Well, they're, they haven't been fucked up yet. Yeah. Right. You know, don't I know it? They all, they all have like different levels of whatever the fuck it is to be a person, different levels of personality factors. They're like wired in from birth.

Like you could have like five kids from the same family and they'll have totally different personalities. Oh my God. I know. Okay. But what is that? You have siblings? What is,

yeah. Just one sister. Yeah. But like, what is that? Like what makes someone. I think it's so many things. There's fucking so many factors to what it means to be a person.

It's nature and nurture. And I think there's some spirituality involved sometimes. what it means to be a person nurture and i think there's some spirituality involved sometimes i know i know um and like which makes it like equally as i don't want to say as exciting but like terrifying as a you know a parent to think like oh my god this one time i said this thing and then the kid was never the same, you know, or, you know, I guess you kind of have to leave that up to, you know, fate or whatever. But it's it is fascinating how I mean, I would say my sisters and I were raised differently because of our different personalities and our, you know, predispositions to whatever trouble all of us would get in, which were all very different troubles. You know, we all did different bad stuff.

You have to find your bad stuff. But I was always upfront about my bad stuff. I think that's why I'm so close with my parents. Like, I moved to New York City when I was 16, and I was on my own when I was 17. And they were like, we believe in you. Go get it. Jesus Christ. And, like, you know, I was, like, going to bars and stuff.

That's so crazy. 17. They let me go to Tokyo when I was like going to bars and stuff. That's so crazy. 17. They let me go to Tokyo when I was 16 for six weeks. Holy shit. And I, because I used to be a model when I was a teenager. And like, I look back and I'm like, I can't believe they let me go. Like, you know, I didn't, let me turn this down because it's buzzing. Yeah, if everybody's like, something wrong with fucking Jamie.

It's not Jamie's fault. That was me. We were going to start out. It's a practice amp. I'll sing in a little bit. It wouldn't have made it to the mix. No. I could have taken that out.

You could have? Yeah. Really? You're such a pro. He's a pro. I know. The mix. Well, we'll just take it out anyway, folks.

There's a little bit of feedback. Yeah, they let me go to Tokyo. And, like, I was going to the club every night. And, like, I'm not a joke. I, like, was hanging out with the Yakuza. And, like, they would take me and my friends out to dinner, but nothing funny. Like, I came back. I remember I landed at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport

and I was like, mom, dad, I drank a lot. I tried ecstasy. I'm still a virgin. I had a great time. Thank you for letting me go. You know, like I didn't get into too much trouble. But I mean, I was like, I was very open with them about who I was.

And so I think we had a trust and, and I, I had values even though I was, I had all this freedom, like I wasn't, um, I wasn't going to be a hoe, you know,

like I wasn't going to be stupid. I had things that I really cared about that were important to me. So, you know, as much fun as I like to have, I still felt responsible, you know? Um, You know, as much fun as I like to have, I still felt responsible, you know. The idea that you should coddle your children is being challenged all the time.

You know, and Jonathan Haidt, he's one of those guys that's into, like, free-range children. Like, let your kids figure their way home. Oh, shit. Yeah, like, let your nine-year-old figure their way home in New York City. That's rough. Well, I mean, it is, but I did it when I was a kid. I mean, I think the world's more,

I mean, the question is, is the world a more dangerous place now or do we perceive it as a more dangerous place because we know the danger now? Like the danger was always there. It just wasn't as highlighted. Like I almost got molested twice when I was a kid. i remember you telling the story it's scary yeah because i think like if there's someone wasn't there that recognized it at the library when i was i guess i was like

eight or nine or something like that i'm not sure how old i was i don't totally remember but if that lady wasn't there and she didn't see that man trying to escape with me. Who knows? I mean, I might have been dead. Who the fuck knows? I have no idea. Yeah. But did you have the discernment at the time that you were in trouble or did you think you were going to go play with some puppies? I thought I was going to play with puppies.

Yeah. I thought he was going to show me some books. I was completely naive. Yeah. I think I told you about this once too. We were pretty, you know, I grew up in Parma, Ohio until middle school, which is pretty blue collar. And so you get a lot of, you know, like working folks and a lot of alcoholics. And like there were total like, you know, pedophile like stuff on the street.

You just be like, oh, don't go to that house you know it was just kind of like it was just like common knowledge that um you know to to know where your um understanding of trouble was and i i feel like um actually the song i want to sing to you is about that and i i've i had that like revelation not that long ago about how fortunate I feel to have had this upbringing where I experienced real life and I wasn't coddled. I mean, I have great parents and they took really good care of us. We're so loved and supported, but like I have the opportunity to be outside a lot and like, you know, play outside, be home by dinner. Like people don't do that anymore. They have play dates. They have like supervised you know like it's not I mean I'm sure in some places your kids can go play outside but um I mean like there was this kid who would walk the tree line uh of

our backyard every day and army fatigues and a b gun. And I always got a sick feeling every time I saw him. And at one point, our babysitter told us that he tried to force himself on her. And, like, she lived with her grandfather. So if that doesn't tell you, like, that's a tough situation. So I remember my parents going to talk to her grandfather. And, like, years later, this guy, like, was a convicted serial rapist, like dozens of women in the greater Cleveland area. And I used to see him every day looking out the back kitchen window, walking across our backyard.

And like, I mean, it's just, you know, I look back at that stuff and it's very sad. But it's also like, but I knew something, you know, obviously like something's wrong with that kid, you know. Right. But you could have got in a bad situation, right? Well, there was, I think I told you this on the podcast. This was a story I told a long time ago. There was another kid who, so when I was little, I was, I still am, but I was obsessed with fishing. You said when I was little, but I still am? I'm still obsessed with fishing.

Oh. I love fishing. I love to fish. You're still little in some ways joe i am well i hope we all keep a little bit of that you know yeah i'm like you know i'm an excitable adult so i feel like a little kid sometimes i think that's good i think that helps really yeah yeah um so i was playing in the backyard by myself. Specifically, I was trying to make a seesaw, but I was by myself. So you really need two for that. So like you need someone on the

other end. And I didn't have any shoes on. And this one boy, I can't remember his name, but he was my sister's age. So he was like three or four years older than me. So he's like a boy, like, you know, adolescent. I think I was like nine. And he came out of the woods and he said, Suzanne, there's a largemouth bass in the creek. You've got to come see it. And I was like, holy shit, let me get my shoes. And I mean, I was so excited. Like nothing would have stopped me from going to see a largemouth bass in the creek.

And I ran up to my room and I put my shoes on. And I don't think my parents were home. I think my sisters were there. And as I started to run out the door, like there was something in me that like I got clotheslined and just was gripped with terror. And I can't explain it. I can't tell you. No one said anything to me because like I was a pretty determined kid. So if someone told me something cool was happening, I was going to be there. And I look back and obviously there's no chance that kind of fish would be in the creek. It was just crayfish and, you know, like nothing. There's no fish in the creek.

And, you know, later this kid was like herding animals in his treehouse. Like he I remember he like blew up a squirrel. in his tree house like he i remember he like blew up a squirrel and um i really think that uh that was a powerful moment in my life where it could have gone another way because i do believe that the boy would have hurt me but yeah i mean it's pretty crazy when i think about the time uh when i was in the library um you know as an adult thinking back on it like how crazy it is that someone got to a point where they were essentially my age or maybe a little younger I don't remember how old the guy was we might have been in his 20s from for all I know I was a little kid they just it was just a man you know like that that kind of person exists where they go to places where kids hang out.

They try to catch strays. They try to catch some stray kid that's not under protection, not under the watchful eye of a parent just wandering around. Well, I mean, like that's our version of like we have this version of bad guys. But like, you know, you go to Europe and like the abductions and like human trafficking is like through the roof. Europe and like the abductions and like human trafficking is like through the roof yeah it's uh terrifying because they find people in basements and shit and like there was a woman who just got um she she was missing and they found her in a basement so you can find the story they found her in a basement covered in coal like some guy had grabbed her and and put her in his fucking basement I think she was gone for a couple days.

You know, what is the story? What is the, um, I think the world is different. I mean, look at this missing Utah college student found alive and covered in coal in man's basement. Utah college student was found nearly 90 miles from campus in the home of a man who has been charged with kidnapping and rape Police said holy fucking shit. How long was she there? Well, you know five-day manhunt for missing 19 year old college student concluded with police finding her alive After a harrowing ordeal a Utah man is now in custody After a harrowing ordeal, a Utah man is now in custody. Holy shit.

She was found naked and covered in coal in a coal storage area of a home in Loa, Utah on December 18th. Oh, my God. You remember the girls in Cleveland. I mean, not to keep this. This is pretty dark. We're having a dark conversation here. But I was home when they were found. Right.

There was like 10 girls. Three girls. Three girls. I made it up. I made up the extra six for I believe I believe 13 years, but the two were there for 10 Oh and like but I mean, it's it's crazy. I was home. Oh my god discovered. It was insane. It was Three women missing for a decade. Why don't I think it was 10? And a six year old? Yeah, because one of the girls had a child. And he kept the baby with the women in the cage?

Holy fuck. Yeah. So I guess, I guess there is a, yeah, we do have to keep our head on a swivel. Well, this is what's crazy, Susanna. What's crazy is that this, even though as horrible as it is that it exists in 2021, the thing is it's rare. That's what's weird.

If you look at human history, I mean, I think people have been doing that kind of thing to people forever. For a long time. Forever. Forever. Just take it. Just grabbing people, snatching them. Like that. I mean, we're like a you

know just an advanced primate but i think with that said like there's a i feel and maybe i don't want to toot my own horn here but i i feel like there's a degree of my uh instinct that i have now that like you know oh this feels familiar or this doesn't feel right You know and I I've gotten really good at just going with it even if I'm wrong I'd rather be wrong and look like a crazy person then right and in trouble Yeah, but you probably wouldn't be wrong wrong. You're pretty Easy going I don't think I think I think you recognize patterns and you recognize like I don't think I think I think you recognize patterns and you recognize like squirrelly thinking from a person where someone just seems off something about the reaction seems off and

you're like I gotta get out of here yeah I'll see you later well people can pretend to have their shit together for a long time like people can trick you for a long time I know especially if you're sweet if you're a nice person. I hate that. Trying to make friends, and then you let someone into your midst, and you go, oh, you're fucking crazy. Yeah. That is a lot of work, huh? Yeah. You just dumped all this work on me.

Like, they'll sell you something. It's like the previews, and then you watch the movie. You're like, hey. Yeah. This is not the movie. Why did I pay $5.99 for this crap? This is a totally different movie. Yeah.

Oh, man. Well, you want to hear a song? Yeah, I do want to hear a song. I want to change course. How's this? Is that too loud? Okay. You know, it's funny.

This is called Mercy and Your Nurse Outside. Mercy, what a gem She's awesome Your mama came running out of the house A wild look in her eyes You trailed her all the way down the block Till she sat right down and cried Curtains swaying in every window Cracked Venetian blinds

Yeah, it could be any one of us with a broken mind Yeah, it could be any one of us with a broken mind And I learned about mercy I learned about mercy. I learned about mercy. For everyone else and for myself. I learned about mercy. Yeah, I was just a kid then Skinning my knees in Woodbury Hills Trying to make a little sense But my heart got crushed when the cat got killed Was a mean man down the block

With his keep outside and his poison milk How I learned to keep the door locked the thought of it still gives me chills and I learned about darkness I learned about darkness Heavy like a sicker hidden in a kiss I learned about darkness Sometimes I don't know how to be How to shut my mouth, how to let things breathe.

And it gets so hard to see with my history standing in front of me. I always fought with my sisters White knuckle and nonsense Hands full of blisters They felt like strangers They still do now Sometimes they're saviors Sometimes they're saviors, sometimes they're saviors And I learned about changing I learned about changing

You win some, you lose some You Cry about things that used to be fun, but you're changing. Yeah, we're changing. Yeah, we're changing. That's beautiful. Thanks. I like it. Thank you. It's new shit. I love it.

It's some new shit. You know, I just played at Antone's here in Austin. I love that place. With Gary's whole band. Oh, shit. It was so much fun. And then he and Nicole were there. So we snapped. That was the 15th, right? The 15th. Yeah, it was so much fun and then he and Nicole were there so we that was the 15th right 15 yeah it was fun I had a gig otherwise I've been there too in

with us oh really well when you guys did midnight rider that one time you love it don't play I don't know if we're getting trouble now that we're on Spotify, I think we can get away with it. We got in trouble over on YouTube. I love playing with Gary. He's just so cool. Yeah, he's so cool. But the two of you guys together, I'm telling you. It's fun. That is a wild combination. You guys should record some shit for sure.

You know, we've been hanging out in the studio a little bit. You must. It's been fun. You must. You two together with his fucking guitar and your voice. Holy shit. So fun. That Midnight Rider, dude, that was special. You must. You two together with his fucking guitar and your voice. Holy shit. So fun. That Midnight Rider, dude, that was special.

It was. I really wish you guys would record that. Oh, yeah. Well, you know. You really should record that. Because Gary has his own sound. Gary's one of those guys where he's so, like, I have no musical information. I don't know how to play shit.

That's not true. No, no, I don't know anything. I don't know how to play. But That's not true. No, no, I don't know anything. Yeah, but you're a listener. I'm a listener. But what I'm saying is like, I don't know how to play guitar. I don't know what's involved. I know you move your fingers,

it looks beautiful. The sound's incredible. But I know that some people, they can make it sing and you hear them. Gary's one of those people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He channels it.

When he plays that guitar, when he's playing that that solo a midnight rider i'm like oh my god that's gary clark jr doing midnight rider like if you played it for me i'm like a somalia at a fancy restaurant it feels like it comes from another place you know what i mean like he's he's a real he's like channeling something he's putting himself into his like that's gary clark jr that music is him like you can hear him in the it's pure yeah there's something he hits these notes where you're like oh that's gary yeah yeah but everybody plays guitar there's something not everybody but obviously it's hard to do but i

mean signature and his voice is so good yes i a couple like a month ago was it a couple weeks yeah it was a month ago i i got this call i was at the mall buying jeans and and i got a call and they said hey can you be in cincinnati tomorrow their openers got coveted and i was like fuck yes and i got on a plane and i opened for them for two nights by myself and it was so much fun because um one i got to just like play music for people uh But two, they have a bubble, you know, and I rode on the bus with them. So like a bubble, like a COVID bubble. Yeah. Like you're with the crew, you're tested every day and don't go hang out with friends in St. Louis.

So I just got to play. I didn't have to go out and sell merch or anything and then just watch them. And it was so fucking awesome. They're so good the whole band eric sapata elijah ford jj johnson uh john keys like his whole band is is phenomenal no he's he's also in touch with some amazing musicians here i know you know like the peterson brothers how bad are those dudes they're so sweet but they're also so fucking talented and you watch the two of them together you're like oh my god

there's two of them they're so nice but they're so talented and you know it's like Gary's music it like it fits perfectly in this town too you know what I mean it's like well he's from here you know this is

this is his court you know you i mean it's like it well he's from here you know this is this is his court you know you can tell like it fits um and it's it's really cool but he's you know he's such a good dude yeah yeah i'm it's like i'm such a fan that like you know i want to yeah yeah oh i love it what when was this it's 2016 it's a long time ago it's like who's drumming yeah this is 2016 yes this is back when the world was real oh my god back before we entered into the metaverse you know we're on we're on machine time now you know like it's moving so fast yeah we're just always on the thing and i have discovered that i'm most happy when i'm uh i take a lot of walks i go on long walks along with working out okay um and when i'm when i'm reading books like actual books oh

and just like read them while you're walking? No, no. Those are two separate experiences. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two separate. Okay. You could do them at the same time. But it brings me back to some reality within myself where I'm not caught up in a just tornado of emotions from social media or my fucking email or just the news.

The minute I pick this thing up that has me on a leash, I feel like I've lost my agency and I never know what's going to happen. And then I have to collect myself afterwards of like, why am I pissed off? Oh, it's because my followers went down or like something stupid like that. That's just ridiculous. And it takes away from everything. The problem with followers is you could see them. You know, like you see the number. It's kind of the craziest thing ever.

You see a number. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why it's so addictive, right? Like the likes. Yeah, you get your dopamine. Yeah, very addictive. All that stuff. Very addictive.

But I also get my dopamine from playing Scrabble. Yeah. You got to be careful. Like real life things. The problem is it's making people, like it's making people alter the way they think about other people because everybody's projecting this version of themselves

that's so unrealistic. Oh yeah. Or they're being super sherry. Oh yeah. Sharing a little too much. No, that's the thing too of like, you know, so I got engaged Oh, yeah. Like, we feel so good to share our announcement, you know. But I get a little knee-jerk with just being inundated with people's feelings all the time.

Because most of the time there's not a solution. You know, it's just the, I feel bad, you know, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I get that. And I have empathy. But I think there's some, I wonder what happens when you don't share that publicly and you figure out how to heal yourself. Well, I mean, there's nothing wrong with sharing it publicly.

A lot of people, they can push aside the negativity and they can look at it in perspective. Maybe it's the victim thing that I'm really reacting to. Victim thing? Like victim society. Oh. Well, I mean, the thing about sharing something on social media that's a super positive thing. It's just a positive thing.

It's just love. It's just love. Great. Anybody that would react in a negative way. Because you're not just thinking like, oh, that bitch. Or, oh, fuck him. Or whatever. People think we're, it depends on how much rent they owe and, you know, their girlfriend dumped them.

They got fired from their job and they're fucking angry. But the fact that they can type something really mean that you could read and for no reason you take it as like, we're not designed for that. Right. It's not healthy. So it's not bad to post something, but it is bad to read all the things that various random people think about the posting because you don't have that much time. Every single thing that a person says to you, you at least have to consider. You can say,

oh, that person's a moron. I don't think they're correct. Or maybe that person's smarter than me. Maybe I should consider what they're saying. But when there's just random assholes and you don't know anything about them. Right. And they're saying mean stuff to you because you're posting you got engaged to your fiance. Why? Well, I think we're talking about a lot of things. We're talking about a lot of things. I know.

That's that Snoop Dogg weed. Woo! I haven't smoked it yet. And I think I'm going to wait because I'm scared. Well, it's also Buffalo Trays. Oh, yeah. It's so good. I'll take a little more of that, by the way.

I know you would. I know you would. It's going to be one of those shows. Well, I don't want to knock on anyone that shares their feelings on social media because I've done it, too. No, there's nothing wrong with it. I think it's the manner in which you're projecting yourself onto a public platform. Sometimes it feels, sometimes it doesn't feel genuine,

you know, as a, as a reader. But at the same time, I think I'm just over all of this shit. I'm so cheers. I'm just, I want to like,

I want to be in nature. I just want to be out of this shit. Cheers. Cheers. I want to be in nature. I just want to be out of this shit. Well, we don't know how to do this, Suzanne. I think this is the problem. There's no... Don't judge me. I'm going to smoke this Juul. Don't.

Get in there. I think people are giving out... Mother's milk. They must be giving out classes. Are you a nicotine addict? No. I just... Is that Juul with marijuana?

No, it's a Juul with nicotine. Oh. Yeah, I guess I am a nicotine addict? No, I just. Is that Juul with marijuana? No, it's a Juul with nicotine. Oh. Yeah, I guess I am a nicotine addict sometimes. How long have you been doing that? A little while. But you don't smoke cigarettes, do you? I. That could roughen up that voice.

I know, it's so bad. Be careful. Well, this isn't good for my voice either. Be careful. I think that's basically going to just kill your body. I don't fucking know it. I don't think it's going gonna just kill your body Yeah, no I have

Like a week and then I'll just be away no more. I don't I think it's probably better You know the produce a problem. It gets demonized when something gets demonized I have to say okay is are they demonizing this because it's actually bad Or they demonizing this because it's a threat to profits for an established company that has a shit ton of money? One of the things I talked to Adam Curry. You know Adam Curry? Yes. I love No Agenda. He's the best. He's the podfather. I'm a big fan. I really

like him a lot. If not for him, none of this would be possible. And John C. Dvorak. I like when they have their little fights. Well, they're super smart guys. And Adam is a good friend. I love him to death. Awesome. I love him to death.

Oh, my gosh. One of the reasons why I came here, like talking to him, he's so smart. When he was high on Austin, I was like, okay, maybe he's on something. But anyway, like he talked to me about this and he said a lot of this was based on a bunch of people who died, a group of kids that died from bad e-cigarettes that were actually marijuana cigarettes. Oh, he smokes these things, right? I do not know if he does it anymore. I feel like he's a...

He may have in the past. Remember. I'm not exactly sure. He smokes a lot of weed, though. Good for him. That motherfucker could throw down. See if you can find what that story was, Jamie. There was like, it was, they were e-cigarette, but it was e-weed.

And so they were attributing it to vaping. They were saying all these kids died from vaping. And he's like, no, no, no. It was a small group of kids that died because there was a tainted product. And he said, I don't think I'm paraphrasing him. I think he was saying that it's one of those things, like we talked about earlier. It's either the outrage is because something is really, really dangerous, or the outrage is because something threatens profits

of something else. And I should just, out of the way, I'm 100% in favor of you buying cigarettes. Oh, wow. I smoke cigars. I drink whiskey. It's not good for you. When the mood strikes, I'll buy a pack, and then I'll go months without smoking. It's just like a thing about

something. It grounds me, I think. But I think he was saying that we have this idea that it's really bad to vape and it might not exactly be true. This is CDC's website, but I remember this. This is the vitamin E stuff they found. Okay, this is it. Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to

EVALI outbreak. I don't know what that means. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by the FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have whatever E-V-A-I-L is. See if you can find that story. There was kids that died and they died from tainted. That's this.

But is there a story that says. Was there like a bacteria in there or something? I mean, this is the CDC looking in. They had to write this because they looked into it because it was a thing. Right. It was a national issue. So is this the story of the okay so it says at the top when you scroll up it says outbreak of lung injury associated with the

use of e-cigarette or vaping products i guess i'm looking for like a dumb story and this is like a a page of uh but you know what like cdc site the the thing is joe like it's really difficult to decide what's real. Like, you know, you hear a story, you see a story on the Internet, and maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Like, I don't, it's, like you said, it's major commerce. Look at this, though. The mysterious vaping illness that's becoming an epidemic. A surge of severe lung ailments has baffled doctors and public health experts.

Okay, here's one thing I do know. A surge of severe lung ailments has baffled doctors and public health experts. Okay. Here's one thing I do know. I do know of a family who had a young son who was a teenager who died and they think it has a connection to vaping. Oh, really? He got very sick. And he had some sort of a lung issue. And I got to imagine that if you're doing it all day long.

Yeah. Like a lot of these kids are. They're doing it all day long, like a lot of these kids are, they're doing it all day. Like if you can give a kid something where you give them, which nicotine is essentially, is it listed as a stimulant? Yes. Is it a stimulant? Yes. Is that what they call it? Yeah, and it makes you feel so good.

Nicotine gives you the greatest head rush. I love a cigar. Jamie, do you still smoke? Good for you. I was going to add into this, which I don't know. I know that from when this happened, whoever was getting them, I don't know if it was a national thing, so lots of people that were getting the actual cartridges

that they were putting the juice or the oil or what have you in, those were where the issue started, I think. Like the cartridges themselves were bad. Yes, I think they said they were like contaminated or something. There was something wrong with them, right? Right, and that's why I remember they were saying they were coming from China or that's why I'm like, I don't know. Well, it's like everything else.

If it was regulated, like if you could only get a version of it where there was some sort of, okay, here, potential culprits in mystery lung illness, black market vaping products. So this is some lung illness. Is that what it is?

Is that what they're saying? It got so confused because it just started popping up. They're called popcorn lung and all sorts of weird things. But here's the thing. I think if you're doing anything like that all day long, if you're taking any mist into your body that has chemicals in it, which is essentially what those things are,

those ones that look like a lunchbox and these kids are sucking on them and they make giant clouds of smoke, those kids are taking in stimulants through their fucking blood vessels all day long. Yeah. They're sucking into their lungs. All I can say is I know if I do this too much i don't feel well

and that's something to be like me with pie yeah like your pie exactly my situation so you know like right now i'm kind of like in holiday mode um and and just in general like my cell phone like i don't like when something has a hold on me i don't like when i wake up and i'm having my coffee and i'm like where's my fucking jewel? I don't like that. My boy Sturgill just switched over to that light phone. I got a green text from him. I'm like, what's going on, son? It's a light phone. It's one of them little bullshit phones. I don't

know. Oh, you mean like a flip phone? No, it's like a phone that will let you only make phone calls and text messages. It's a little tiny ass phone. You can't get online. I want in on that. You ain't watching no YouTube videos. Sturgill. You ain't answering emails. What a great dude. Yeah, he went tiny ass phone. You can't get online. I want in on that. You ain't watching no YouTube videos. Oh, Sturgill. You ain't answering emails.

What a great dude. Yeah, he went full light phone. That's really smart. Sent in that green text. How's his quality of life? Do you know? I'm going to check in a couple months when he's missing them iMessages. He's missing them nice videos.

Because I would say we would send each other memes. I'm like, come on, bitch. No more memes. No more memes. Sturgill out there in the woods. Just handle it. Just handle the pressure. Just give yourself like some discipline.

Does it tell time? Does he know what time it is? Maybe. Maybe he knows what time. It's like fucking it's barely running correctly. Do you do you remember the like the first phones, the Nokia phones with the snake game? You know, anyone game? Oh, yeah.

The game. Yeah. You know, there were flip phones you play a game on right yeah yeah i used to love that or the little ones a little tiny phones it was like a one piece yeah well like my first text message of like what the fuck do you do with this and i'd just be like hi it takes like three minutes to make a hi misus you know oh because you'd have to be like it was so dumb this little time oh my god look at that little cute great that's great smallest mobile phone l8 star bm7 25 bucks you buy that you call

people with it I bet the battery life is like four days that's hilarious he shoved the whole thing in his fucking ear. Is that real? I don't know. No, no, that's a Bluetooth headpiece, bro. I don't know. Look at it. Look, see? Oh, no! It sits in your fucking ear like an earpiece. What is the battery life on this thing?

100 hours. 100 hours? What? 100 days? And it's on T-Mobile, so everything sucks about it. Oh, hey, that was just a joke. I didn't mean that. Oh, slam! I didn't it's on T-Mobile, so everything sucks about it. Oh, hey, that was just a joke. I didn't mean that. Oh, slam.

I didn't mean that, T-Mobile. Don't get mad at me. What are you, a Verizon guy? I'm nothing, guy. I love T-Mobile. Superior battery. You love T-Mobile. It was just a joke.

It was a joke. I had to do it. It was right there. Oh, if I'm not wrong, 120 hours on standby. That's the tiniest phone I've ever heard of in my life. Are you on your phone a lot? Too much, for sure. But phone a lot? too much for sure but not a lot

not like a ridiculous amount but most of it has zero to do with me most of it is YouTube videos and maybe books on tape if I'm driving well that's different books on tape you're learning something not the kind of books I'm learning

what are you listening to? racing novels? I'm not learning shit no I have listened to quite a few novels i do enjoy novels you know what i enjoy about novels is that they have an actor read it but they have the guy do the girl voice oh yeah that's funny it's hilarious james where are we going here like a grown-ass man. Do a girl voice. And you have to, like, the suspension of disbelief has to kick in. Yeah, that's totally a really hot girl. He's not even trying.

You know, but sometimes it's done really well. I'm listening to Hemingway right now, The Sun Also Rises. It's really great. Oh, but does he do a girl voice in that? It's read by William Hurt, and he does all these accents. And it's really well done. Yeah. But I think, yeah, that's funny. You know, when I did a couple tours by

myself where I was driving like 10, 12 hours a day by myself and I was like the thing that kept me going were racy novels on tape. Yeah, you get caught up in it, right? And I'd be like, I'd be so into it that I'd like be listening when I got to my hotel, but I'd be like, just kiss her. You know, like pounding on the dashboard.

Like I was so invested in it. And yeah, you know what? I, I, I was just, it is what it is. You know, I still maintain my dignity. There's nothing wrong with that. Girls, for whatever reason, are into pornographic literature. But they're not into visual pornographic stuff. Like girls, like here's some girls are.

Pardon me. You're right. I'm being generalizing. But the point is, one thing, this is what I can say generally, is that one thing exists in the female culture that doesn't exist in the male culture, and that's written pornography.

Sure. Like books that are- I don't know, comic books though. Comic books can get pretty romantic. Well, yeah, that's true. I'm just saying like Shades of Grey. What is it? Fifty Shades of Grey? You know what it's called. I do. I just forgot it in the moment. Come on, you've been watching it.

It's tattooed on my ass. It wasn't Letters of the Other, but it was Penhouse Letters. Yeah, Penhouse Letters. There was definitely some of then? It's tattooed on my ass. What? It was like letters. It wasn't letters the other day, but it was like penthouse letters. Yeah, penthouse letters. There was definitely some of that where dudes just jerked off to, I'm sure. However, girls have entire relationships with like perverts, like Fifty Shades of Grey, or vampires, like the fucking Twilight series. Totally. That was literally about girls having a sexual relationship with a vampire.

Right. Which is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of in my life. There was romance involved. He was dead! And then she became a vampire too. Sorry, spoiler. But my point is that it became a thing for girls to the point where it made guys angry. Like, guys got angry at Twilight.

It was really weird. The thing is, so I can speak to my adolescent self on that. And the romance involved was, it wasn't sexual. I mean, eventually it was. But I read the books as a youngster. And then I watched the movies. And, you know, that's a lot different from like an actual racy novel. Right.

You know, it was like teen romance drama. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, that's not a good example. The better example is The Fifty Shades of Grey. Sure. Twilight is a good example of like romantic notions where like women are looking for some vicious fucking killer that doesn't kill them, which is weird, but real. That's one of the reasons why women want to marry serial killers.

What? Oh, it's a big thing. What? Yeah, it's a huge thing. Like Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker. I'm sorry, this is news to me. Ted Bundy, they get all these marriage proposals from women. A lot of them are hot, too.

It's crazy. And they find guys that are in jail for killing women, and they want to marry those guys and they send them pictures of themselves nude and they try to do all kinds of things to get into romantic relationships with guys who are serial killers of women. It's really common.

It's like, you know what we're talking about? I wonder what the Jungian take is on that one. It's a good, right. Let me think about that for a second. I mean, whatever it is, it's some weird thing that happens where a woman wants to align herself with someone who's willing to cross the line. Like the line of civility and civilization and community is assassination. It's murder. Someone's willing to just go out there and do the wildest shit you can do is end a person's life and it might be her life.

So they align themselves with this guy. I feel like that would be like an interpretation of power in some way obviously because if you have the power and the gumption to end someone's life that's a specified brand of power. Right. So and you know I'll be honest. There's a lot of betas out there. And, you know, I think that there's a... What are you saying? There's an imbalance,

actually an egregious imbalance in our feminine and masculine social structure. So, I mean, I'm not into serial killers, disclaimer, but I think I could understand a specific kind of woman that really needed a specific kind of energy, which is fucked up. I mean, there's a lot of therapy in there. But I think that, you know, with this imbalance this imbalance a lot of us like not myself anymore

because i i really did find my king and he's something else um and i've never felt this balanced in my life to be honest with you um because he's really such a man uh in so many ways in his intellect but he he's also so kind and sensitive. He's jacked, too. He's jacked, too. He's really jacked. That's important. Isn't that just a little bit important?

But I, you know, I'll speak for myself. Shout out to Nick. I'll speak for myself. You know, I've been alone for a long time and I've been lonely for a long time. And I've been very autonomous in this way where I feel like I've had to be very masculine and feminine in the sense of like just taking care of myself. And it's really masculine is like protecting yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

Like me looking out for me. Right. You have to be hard. Yeah. A little bit. And like in so many ways, being a musician, touring and like just like, you uh, being the only woman in a room full of men all the time. But, you know, it's really, since I met Nick and, and he really is like my match, like we are just, we were made for each other. I get to be more of a woman now than I've ever been.

And it's so cool. Like, I love it. Do you think that, uh, first first of all that's awesome i'm super happy for you but do you think that this is happening with people with with like this sort of erosion of sexuality in terms of like we we have like a divide between men and women sometimes in this country for for whatever weird reason sure and we also have a bunch of people that don't want to identify as either a man or a woman. And I was talking to someone recently where they were, we were discussing this idea of like, where does, where does human biology go to next? If we used to be some sort of cave person and then we eventually became people on the internet,

like where does it go next? Because it's going somewhere. Well, technically from, like we have like all the marks of a collapsed society with our obsession with sexuality and all the things that are, you know, this. Do you know Douglas Marius? Yeah.

The Madness of Crowds. Yes, amazing. You know, a lot of my life has changed in so many ways, but specifically my politics and my belief in, you know, where I was before and where I am now, which is really in the middle. I'm really in the taint of all of this stuff. I think the taint is where civility lies. Well, you know, Douglas Murray, man, the madness of crowds is genius.

It's genius. And the thing about Murray is like he's got an interesting get out of jail free pass too because he's gay. Because he's gay and conservative. And he's conservative and gay. They don't know what the fuck to do with him. But he also says what he thinks. And there's a lot of people that just can't do that anymore for whatever reason but one of the things that he said about today said if you look at past civilizations

whenever they were about to collapse whether it's ancient rome ancient greece they got affixed on gender yep gender became a giant issue yeah gender but sexuality too It's like all of it. It's like chaos. There's something that happens where there's like the sort of like dissolving of boundaries of everything. Yes. Like throwing society out the window, lighting it all on fire, but with no plan of the future. And then on top of that, people start questioning their sexuality, their gender. It's like it becomes more common to say, why am I doing it this way? And it becomes more common for people to realize that this way, the traditional way, makes me feel like shit. I don't want to do it.

I want to wear a dress. And I want to have sparkles in my eyes. Sure, sure. And that's fucking cool too. But I am with you in the middle of this. I kind of lean more left socially with almost everything. With almost everything. Me too.

The only thing that fucks me up is the idea of accountability and discipline. I think that one of the reasons why people are not as happy as they could is because they haven't. There's some of us out there that are not putting in the amount of effort and time to take care of our bodies in terms of whether it's even just meditation or exercise or something that's that requires discipline and sometimes you can't just be nice to people and expect them to have discipline sometimes you have to say mean shit and you go hey you're fucking up like we got to get out of this little hole we're in here. Let's go. Well, what's the thing you said about the weak men make?

It's not me. It's a very old saying. But you posted this recently. Sorry. Well, it's a very old saying, but it's hard times create hard men. Right. Hard men create easy times. Easy times create soft men.

Soft men create hard times. I don't remember who was the author of that, but it's a very common expression that I think is real, and I think it's represented in just our cycle of evolution, of developing as a race of people, as a civilization, life on Earth that's human human we're all evolving and figuring this out and we're battling about how to do it and how not to do it and what to say what not to say yeah no it's it's so everything's so offensive and yeah but it's also we're just sorting it out like in the middle of the offensive there's people saying it's not offensive stop relax and then

everybody calms down a little bit there's like this battle going on back and forth but i i appreciate your um uh peaceful way of of of approaching that like you know sorting it out that's a really nice way to say it because it doesn't feel like that and i i i want to have a better way of not being so sad about yeah how offended everybody gets we can sort it out suzanne yeah all you gets. We can sort it out, Suzanne. Yeah, I hope so. We can all, all you people listening, we can sort it out. I think most people want to be happy and kind and nice and have good friends, most people.

And there's a lot of confusion as to, like, what that requires. Like, you know, is it, are these people assholes and pieces of shit? Or maybe they just have a different way of looking at stuff. And if you guys talked, maybe they don't know anybody like you. Maybe they meet you and they look at things different. And maybe your ability to be humble and just project yourself and your thoughts honestly might affect them in a way where they could say, I never met anybody like that. Now I'm starting to rethink things. We all know that whatever you are in December, what is it? December 27th,

2021. If whoever you are right now, this is not like your ultimate form. As long as you're alive and you're thinking and you're growing, we got it, but we got to like decide that we're all in this together. And that we also got to decide that the only way we can do what you do or what I do is freedom.

You have to be able to just say what you want. You have to be able to go wherever you have to be. You don't have you can't be tied down for a reason that doesn't totally make sense to some government organization that eats your taxes. What I think is you're so right. And what I think is happening is people mostly from societal persuasion and media persuasion, there's all this narcissism and this feeling of your individual suffering is more important or worse than someone else. And so you got to speak up and attack this person because they're the culprit, you know, like Dave Chappelle or something like that. And, and I think that it's interesting to me that nobody can be, well, first of all, everyone's entitled to their feelings. Right. But like these days, like you can't quietly be uncomfortable or sort something out yourself. You know, there has to be this alignment with identity and the way that people are doing it is so divisive, like we are divided in so many ways. And, you know, I realize that a lot of things I say people, you know, people might not like and I'm not like offending people. It makes me uncomfortable and I'm a good person, you know.

But lately I've felt squelched. Like, you know, I can't say what I really feel because, oh my God, this side's not going to like it. You just can't be responsible for so many other people's opinion of you. There's nothing you could do about that. You're entitled to your own opinion of you, and I would assume your own opinion of you evolves as you grow and as you become a different person as you get older in life.

The problem with expressing yourself about any controversial subject is you're going to encounter a bunch of people that are deeply unhappy, that disagree with you. They're going to lash out at you in very personal ways. And there is a disagreement that can be had and can be had civilly. And I have with friends or close friends who I love to death and I admire very much who have a different perspective on things than me. Sure. There's that is okay, too. All of it is okay. But the problem is you open the door for people to feel morally justified in being horrible people to you.

Just nasty, evil, a person to you that disagrees with you. And they can just be a nasty, evil piece of shit to you for almost no reason. Just because we look at things differently. Yeah. And the idea is that anyone who, you know, that we're binary, anyone who's on the left side of this fence is fucked for life and everyone is the right side i'll die for you like this is crazy tribal nonsense but so many of us buy into that because that's literally how our genetics were established whoever we are that are here we are the descendants of the people who made it and it is a rough and tumble fucking history if

you go through the history of humans before they could write things down before anybody you know they how about before we had language when they were just wild monkeys fucking each other and killing each other with rocks and we went from that to oh this this guy killed my fucking husband with a rock no i didn't do it like i was there bitch yeah like and then they started they had there wasn't a law yeah and then they wrote things down and after they wrote things don't start filming it like oh fuck you got me on YouTube and then like we're evolving in tune with Technology because we're being like pulled along by a great magnet of truth. Mm-hmm So all the bad stuff is bad. There's no doubt about it

All the mean stuff is mean but it's part of it. It's because we don't know what the fuck we're doing yet We have these impossible tools where you can communicate with the whole fucking world you could be a tiktok star because you're like tools are so influential dressing up and dancing and you will have access to the minds of 45 million people which is wild shit that's crazy wild shit but it's real that's a real thing that's happening right now. While you're being tracked by whatever fucking algorithms that app uses and whatever is checking what you're buying and where you're going and flying, what airport you fly out of. Do you use Lyft or Uber? There's a lot of weird shit. The connection is fucking bananas.

Whatever new guys in town because they're usually cheaper anyway. Yeah, exactly. Right. because they're usually cheaper anyway. Yeah, exactly, right? As we're doing this, though, you're moving in this direction of impossible integration into computers. And what we're looking at with us,

we're trying to keep our way of communicating. Our way of communicating was designed with no internet. We're not designed for the internet. We're not designed for the ability to access the opinions of millions of people simultaneously. It's too much to ask. We're on machine for the internet. We're not designed for the ability to access the opinions of millions of people simultaneously. It's too much to ask. We're on machine time and machine thinking. I feel like I have, I'm like a scout, right?

Like you've sent me down the trail. You go, hey, I want you to go down the trail and gather up like a couple hundred million downloads a month and tell us what's up. Yeah, thanks for what you're doing for all of us. Tell us what's happening. You're a hell of a scout. This is what it's like. And I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. There's a cliff.

We're running towards a cliff. Stop. Everybody stop. We got to hit the fucking brakes. And they're like, you're an anti-vaxxer. And they just fucking keep going, you don't believe in science! Hashtag fuck Joe Rogan!

And I'm like, guys, guys, I want us to make it! There's a cliff! There's a cliff! Everybody's gotta slow the fuck down! Look, I'm taking in opinions from all directions.

Makes me feel like I'm going to cry. 360 degrees. Yeah. But I feel like at this point in time, and with the chaos that's here right now, the fucking universe has put me in this place where I can at least have access to more opinions than most people. Yeah.

You know. If you disagree with me, that's fine. I disagree with me all the time. I know. It's hilarious. But if you agree with me, that's fine too. I might not even be right. We might all be wrong.

But you can't be a cunt. And too many people just think it's okay to be a cunt today. I know. It's just okay to be a cunt. It's okay to like. Yeah, but that falls back on you because when you're a cunt today. I know. It's just okay to be a cunt. It's okay to like. Yeah, but that falls back on you because when you're a cunt, you have to live with yourself. You do, but a lot of times they get extra cunty when no one responds because it generates the initial impulse and gives them some sort of like a pat on the back, some sort of like

reinforcement. I don't think so. That what they're doing is okay. I think at the end of the day, you know deep in that pinprick of your spine of your existence that you're being an asshole and it's not okay. And there's something that's going to be unsettling. Even if you have validation and a whole echo chamber of support, at the end of the day, it's not cool. If you think, right? If you're a thinker.

If you're a person who's discerning, you know, like you're really thinking about everything you say and everything you do and you want to make sure that you're a solider, if you're a person who's discerning, you're really thinking about everything you say and everything you do, and you want to make sure that you're a solid, good human being, you're 100% correct. But there's a lot of people out there that are just existing on the revenue of being a cunt. There's a lot of money in cuntiness. You get a whole account going. there's a lot of money and cuntiness. You get a whole account going. Yeah.

I think that, yeah, it's a lonely time in that way, you know? But it doesn't have to be. No, it's okay. I'd rather be lonely and secure in my values, but I'm not because I have a hell of a partner and great friends. You know, that's you as well. You deserve all of it and more. You're an awesome human being thanks man cheers to you proud to be your friend as always as always thank you but i think dude we've been friends for 10 years now how crazy is that shout

out to balls of steel balls of steel one dude introduced me to you when you guys are doing angel of death god that angel of death acoustic on the roof, I remember thinking, oh my God, what a beautiful song. And it was everything about it. It was not just the beauty of the song, it was the environment, the fact that it was an acoustic version that you guys did on a roof. It was so real.

Thank you. Shout out to Ben. Shout out to Ben. But it's been a long time. It's like people, I feel like people can listen to people that are navigating life still with joy and with happiness and with good friends

and like with, we're all doing okay. Yeah. I think people listen, I think that's important to know is that in the same time period as the shit is going fucking haywire and the culture war is at like full nuclear, you know, red alert threat,

there's still people out there that are just being nice to each other and having fun. And what is really going on? What's really going on, I think, is we're in the middle of a fucking transition, some sort of a weird digital integration. And as much as we're trying to fight all this shit, and I think we should fight it being in control of human beings,

it's going to come a time, whether it's 10 years from now or 20 years from now, some fucking artificial intelligence is going to be far superior than us, and it's going to trick us into plugging into the Matrix. They already are. Yeah, by the way, that last Matrix. Jamie liked it. Oh, get out of here.

We can talk about that I think you guys should but not with me in the room You didn't watch it? I'll leave, no I haven't watched it yet My whole family was over, I couldn't talk You want to talk about this later? Yes, we have to watch Elf Elf is fucking hilarious still

It's still really funny That's 2003, that fucking movie is really funny You know what else is funny? Daddy's Home with Mark Wahlberg. Oh yes. And Will Ferrell. It is funny.

Will Ferrell is a funny motherfucker. Talladega Nights. So is Mark Wahlberg. Oh he's very funny. Very funny. Yeah. Talladega Nights is a

fucking hilarious movie. I did a movie with that the woman the main woman Leslie Bibb from Talladega Nights. Amazing. Yeah. I did Zoo movie with the woman, the main woman, Leslie Bibb from Talladega Nights. Amazing. Yeah. I did Zookeeper with her.

You know, I didn't tell you this, but so I'd never seen news radio until recently. And Nick's daughter loves it. That's hilarious. So in the mornings we'd be getting up for school and stuff and it would be on. And you were great, Joe. You did great. It was easy i played a moron i played me i played the worst version of me the slightly stoned version of me knowing you

now you know and like i mean were you doing a lot of comedy then oh yeah yeah i was um when i first started news radio i was like six years was like six years into doing stand-up. Amazing. Yeah. That's so cool. News radio started in 94, and I started stand-up in 88. So I was super lucky. How many seasons was that?

It was five. The last one was rough because Phil had been murdered by his wife. Right. Wow. I didn't know he got murdered during the film. I didn't know he got murdered while we were on break. Oh God. And then the only there was no

bright side of it but the only way the show was a little we did another season with John Lovett so the only way we were able to do that is that John and Phil were very good friends and we were very good friends with John because we knew John from this.

He was always like there with Phil. They were buddies. We got to know him. Everybody was very comfortable with him. And he's really funny. John Lovitz is hilarious. He's crazy as fuck, but he's really hilarious.

Crazy in a good way. He's just a character. But the point is that like, that's the only way we were able to do a final season and we finished that season and then they canceled it it was crazy like they canceled it the one time that i was sure they weren't going to cancel it like all the other times at the end of the season i was like that fucking show is not gonna make it yeah i was like shit it's so fun to do it was so funny but But they had all been actors. Everybody had been an actor.

Like they had done a lot, like Dave Foley had obviously done Kids in the Hall. He had done a lot of sketches and he was like one of the secret producers of news radio. No kidding. He would rewrite everything. He's so goddamn smart and he's really talented and so are the writers and one of the beautiful things about the writers is they didn't

have any issue with him doing it because they they trusted him it's the reason why the show was based around him they trusted him to sort of because of kids in the hall because he had he was and he's just got a brilliant idea he's got a brilliant take on how to set up a scene so they just gave him free reign they just let him like he so sometimes they would disagree work is done exactly sometimes they would disagree and they'd be like but we have to do this for the storyline yeah they'd have conversations about it but so many times that's the best show was rewritten by dave foley yeah that's the best way to work i i had that revelation later in life with music of just like people that are like, bring in an idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on in, you know. Well, everybody was so talented on newsreaders, the writers like Paul Sims and Josh Lieb. And like there's so many, some of the writers were so talented and so good that it didn't matter. Like everybody was like just trying to make the best show. Everybody was just trying to make the best show everybody was just trying to make the best show and when you get to do so so for me it was like i literally had been doing acting for like a year for one year i'd be acting but all of a sudden i'm on a show with dave foley and phil hartman i'm like what the fuck is going on well you're like a magic person

i'm the luckiest bitch ever so it's weird yeah well that's part of it but also like i think about that stuff a lot like you've got that timing and then you've also like got the brain and the the work ethic and just the talent you know i think i you know i like watching people and understanding how someone got to somewhere. And yeah, it's really exciting. Well, I have mental illness that I'm trying to cure through hard work. Oh, you mean you're an overworker? Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. But it's also like, here's the thing. Is this like the exercise thing? Yeah. It's all the things. It's like the podcast thing, the comedy thing. It's like if I don't concentrate on something and pay attention to it. What's wrong with that?

Then I turn on myself. Why do you call that mental illness? Because it's a mental illness because then I turn on myself. Turning on yourself is not super great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the problem is I have a drill sergeant in my head. So it's like I will turn on myself.

Yeah, but obviously it's up to you to balance that. Yes. But I think that that's a really unique quality in terms of having the talent and the brain and the drive. Yeah, but I'm telling you, a lot of the drive is like me running away from mental illness. Mental illness is like a barking dog. It's like 50 yards away, and I just have to keep going. I'm hoping he's going to give up. Yeah, I don't know about that. No, but it's a different kind of mental. Oh, it's like it's not the worst con It's not like you want to like ruin your life and start doing coke right? It's it's like I'm destructive I need puzzles. I need some shit to saw I understand that if I don't have an act

I'm working on or something else. I'm doing that's hard to do, I'll turn to myself. You know. I think a lot of us are like that. Yeah, I do that. I make war on Suzanne. I try not to. I try to be nice to her. Well, you know, I've got a great therapist.

That's a great phrase. I make war on Suzanne. That should be a song. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it's had its iterations in there. I make war on Suzanne. I make war on suzanne i make war on suzanne well you know what's interesting and and not to like it will be difficult to talk about myself in this way but the truth is yourself in the third person no like do it some people could do it no well it

might be your thing try it so i'm doing my best work i've ever done so Suzanne Zento is doing her best work she's ever done and I'm existing will you say it one time no no I can't I'm not a cunt cheers oh my god but

see you can't do this shit on regular radio no you can't you sure can't oh my god I did a couple of radio shows recently and my songs have a lot of swear words in them. Oh, no. What do you do?

It was so hard. Actually, I did a couple shows in the Carolinas, and it was some of the biggest paying gigs I've had in a while. And it was like a $20,000 weekend, and I needed that. It was the only money I made all year. Did they tell you you can't swear? They had to be clean shows. And so I had to work overtime to make it sound good and deliverable.

And the thing is, when I curse in my songs, I'm not doing it just to do it. It's part of the song. You know what you need? What do I need? A beep button. Point is, I did it. I did it. it but i was terrified i was so self-aware it really sucked because you know when you're singing and you're you know and i'm playing music like i'm not like i'm not thinking about it yeah you know but i was so nervous i was like oh my god like these these people like they they brought me here

they're paying me money and like i don't i don't want to fuck this up by saying fuck. But the thing is, it's like, you're in the artist compromise, right? Because there's a reason why they wanted you there. They wanted you there because they love your work. So if they love your work, that means- Just odd for them to be like, by the way. Exactly.

It's like, well, that means they've listened. So if they've listened, that means they know you swear. It turned out to be great. But what I was going to say was that- What did you do? What did I do? Yeah, for when you got to the F word. I rewrote some stuff, and it was actually okay.

But you couldn't say goddamn and stuff like that. You couldn't say goddamn? Yeah, no. What about Odin be damned? You know, I've been reading about Odin a lot lately. Odin was a bad motherfucker. I know, just hanging from that about Odin a lot lately. Odin was a bad motherfucker. I know, just hanging from that tree, giving his eye away. Odin was a different kind of dude.

I know, I know. I find a lot of comfort in that lately, in mythology. It's interesting, right? It's like eventually people gave up on Zeus. Like there's not a lot of people out there. Zeus used to be the fucking man. I know, I know. Back when they were making houses out of stone, Zeus was the man.

Zeus was the goddamn man. Yeah, but you know. Oh, you can't even say goddamn man. He got a little carried away, you know? He didn't have that humility. Where did Thor go? Where's Thor when we need him? What the fuck, Thor?

He's here. Do you know what the problem with the entire Marvel Comics universe is? Oh, we're going Marvel, not the tradition. Thor, he's in the Marvel Comics universe. Yeah, of course. You know what the problem is? Captain Marvel. She could fix everything. She could change everything. Or the Hulk. Every time there's a Thor movie, I'm like, send in the

Hulk, bitch! Call your friend! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your friend is the Hulk! Not Winter Soldier. What's the one after that? I don't know. Okay. Well, is the Hulk. Not Winter Soldier. What's the one after that? I don't know. Okay, well. The one after Winter Soldier. Captain Marvel, like the whole time you're like, where was she? Oh.

This whole time she could do all the things, but she was waiting. She was working on, she had another job. Anyway. What did you show me, Jamie? Odin. That's Anthony Hopkins. Oh, no shit? Yeah.

He was Odin? Which one was that? What? Where have you been? No, but I'm trying to remember. I have too much data. I have too much data in my head. Well, all of the Marvel with Thor, Anthony Hopkins was Odin.

Here's the thing with the Avengers. Call the Hulk. What's happening? But I wasn't talking about Marvel. Call the Hulk. I was talking about actual mythology. Emo Hulk. Norse mythology.

Emo Hulk. The problem is Hulk with the glasses is bullshit. Hulk with the glasses at the diner. Remember that? When he became Mark Ruffalo? Sad. Reflective Hulk. Hulk is listening to NPR and he's crying and he wants to go to Guatemala. Have you had Chris Hemsworth on? No, I haven't, but I'm afraid

I'd fall in love. I know. He's beautiful. I met him once when I was playing with Hosier and we did Ellen. And I have a photo with him where he took my phone and took our photo. And he was so nice. You should swab that for DNA. That's all I'm going to say. Put it in some sort of a fucking test tube.

It's an experience. Because if one day, one day like CRISPR gets to the point where all you need is like a coffee cup from someone and you can have their body. First of all. Look at that man on the right. Yeah, good for him. Jesus Christ. Good for him.

He's gorgeous. I know. And he loves his wife. I would hug him for moments. Long moments. I just want him to comfort me. I would hug him for moments. Long moments. Would you stop and write it down? I want him to comfort me. Like there's no doubt about it. That guy has superior genetics.

His grandparents, his grandpappy's grandpappy was definitely a Viking. Right. 100%, right? It appears, I can't speak for the man. I don't know him. But it appears he he has the intellect, the kindness, the comedy. He's got the whole thing. So you're in love? No, I'm in love with Nick Pizzolatto.

But if you weren't in love. I admire Thor. I'd rather keep him in a fictitious place. Yeah, I don't even want to know he jerks off. He's too perfect. Jesus Christ. There's only a couple of those guys I hope they just get through life

In the most noble way possible Him and Jason Momoa I hope they hold hands as they ascend to heaven You know when we went to see Sturgill We had Johnny Bernthal The Punisher And Jason Momoa on either side of us I know we didn't even know

I didn't know We went to the Troubadour I'm like Suzanne Jason Momoa on either side of us? I know. We didn't even know. I did. I didn't know. We went to the Troubadour. I was very aware. See, unlike Suzanne, I actually pay attention to the show. I didn't know. I have a man crush on Jason Momoa. I met him in a Whole Foods parking lot. I met Jason Momoa in a Whole Foods parking lot.

He's the fucking nicest guy of all time. Gave me his phone number. Yeah, we just exchanged phone numbers. That's the beautiful thing. Did you call him? I think we texted each other back and forth. Were you like, Yeah, we just exchanged phone numbers. That's the beautiful thing. Did you call him? I think we texted each other back and forth. Were you like, hey, Jay, it's me. I got nervous.

Jay Rogan. I get nervous if I get a famous person's phone number. I'm like, shit, this is too much pressure. It's fine. I meet famous people now. Yeah, of course. And when you meet them, you're like, oh. It doesn't matter how many famous people you meet. When you meet someone who's famous and you never met them, you're like, oh, it doesn't matter how many famous people you meet.

When you meet someone who's famous, you never met them. You're like, oh, there's that person. Look at this fucking, the actual real Snoop Dogg. Oh, yeah. That's super cool. When I was 19 in L.A. and I'd meet a famous person, I'd pretend like I didn't know who they were. And I'd be like, Timberlake? What is that, Italian?

My friend's wife but now now I like the thing is if I admire somebody I'm gonna just tell them like oh man I love your movies or I love your music you know and that feels comfortable to me to not pretend like I'm yeah cool well it's like it's actually cool to's like, it's actually cool to do that. Sure. It's actually cool to do that. Yeah. But there's a problem with like people wanting people to know who they are too.

Well, that's annoying. Yeah. Yeah. It's tricky. Yeah. I always say, hi, I'm Joe. Yeah. Even if I know someone knows who I am am I feel like I have to say that

I got recognized in the nail salon in Austin and this girl said all these nice things to me about oh my god I love your music and I just bought six tickets to your show on the 15th but like I was like oh my god so tell me about yourself so I got clingy

and I think I kept her for too long she was like well okay that's hilarious. I don't know if they went to the show. That's hilarious. Yeah, that's weird. It's like when you meet someone and they say they're going to go to your show. You're like, have a good time.

But then you don't talk to them afterwards. Yeah. I hope you had a good time. I don't know what happened. You know, it's nice when someone admires your work. It's very nice. It is nice. It's very nice. It's nice. It's very nice.

It's just what you don't want is to feel like you're the shit. It's like a balancing act between someone reaffirming that you're doing good, that they love what you're doing, but you never getting to a position where you think you're better than other people. It's like this weird balancing act that actors and musicians and comedians and all kinds of famous people fail out all the time because there's no guidebook it's a weird balance though because like i want to enjoy it more you know like we were i was starting to talk about this earlier of like, like I'm doing my, my best work and the way that the music industry is structured is, is like a failing model,

but how so? Um, I see very little return on, on what I'm creating and putting out there. But then the return is emotional. Like I, I get a lot of like, like,

you know, my last record, Ruby red that came out in 2017 has a fuck ton of streaming right for for me but i made like 10 grand off of it and not not to measure it monetarily do you get most of the money from streaming from shows from shows from shows oh so but you're saying you made 10 10 grand you mean you made 10 grand from the road from from streaming from stream okay and like pre-sales out the gate and and like pre-sales of tickets or You were saying you made 10 grand. You mean you made 10 grand from the road? From streaming. From streaming. Okay, that's what I'm... And like pre-sales out the gate.

And like, you know... Pre-sales of tickets or pre-sales of the album? Okay. Vinyl specifically. But the... What's the... What would you like to happen? Like what is like a normal...

If you go back to like your early days. Sure, sure, sure. What I would like to happen is um i want like concentrated touring where i'm playing i'm out for like two weeks and then i'm not away from home for so long because home is really important to me and for so long in my life like i moved every year for like 15 years i didn't really have a home and i just be on the road constantly. And what I would like is, you know, a comfortable amount of financial return. And then my home life while I'm creating more content and music. But, you know, COVID kind of put a kibosh on all of that. Don't you think that that's how all artists feel when they feel like they're putting out so much, but they're not getting it back?

They feel like there's a disproportionate relationship, like something's off, right? The way it's built now, yeah. So what's the flaw? What's the bottleneck in the system? It what's the bottleneck in the system it seems like the bottleneck in the system is getting your music to people well that right um that's the streaming like so is the streaming thing like a money thing like do you when they stream it how does it work do you own the song do you own the writing i do you do but you know if you work with

a label? They usually own your copyright and depending on your deal depending on your leverage that you have So it totally depends on whatever deal you make it's not there's not a standard deal No, so the things like with young artists if someone's coming up and they haven't like Fully popped yet when when people know they're good and they have a bright idea of their future, they'll sign them and lock them into these weird contracts. Yeah, you can get in trouble. I've had that. I've gotten in trouble.

Everybody seems to. Yeah. Everybody. I'm not supposed to talk about this because there's an NDA, but like my first, I signed a deal when I was 19. Don't get sued. So it turns out that NDA uh actually does apply so we're gonna edit that we had to look it up folks and it turns out uh this story is uh not appropriate for moving on yes moving on don't get sued Suzanne I killed a an elk and a pig

in October did you you really? Yeah. Do you still have those huge refrigerators in your garage? Yeah, I have some here now. You know, when you gave me the bear meat, the bear sausage. Yeah, did you like it? Fucking excellent. It's delicious, right? I made it with some pasta.

It was delicious. Did you pan fry it? A little bit of oil? It was a while ago, Joe. I'm just saying. They're really good. The elk meat was also delicious. Elk meat is better.

Elk meat's the best meat because you don't have to worry about trichinosis, so you don't have to cook it to 165 degrees. If I get real sketchy about giving bear meat to people, I won't give bear meat to a moron. Yeah. Because if you give like a... Thank you. So you don't think I'm a moron? I definitely don't think you're a moron. But even people that aren't moron. Yeah. Because if you give like, because they Thank you. So you don't think I'm a moron? I definitely don't think you're a moron. But even people that aren't morons, like my friend

Steve Rinella got trichinosis. Oh shit. And his whole crew did. I follow him on Instagram. He was in Alaska and they shot a black bear and they cooked it over a fire and people were like, what are you eating a fucking bear? Folks, this is what's going to sound so crazy. When Davy Crockett or Daniel Boone, eating a fucking bear? Folks, this is what's going to sound so crazy. When

Davy Crockett or Daniel Boone, whichever, I think it was Davy Crockett who sold bear meat. People would eat

bear meat and then they would use deer for hides. Okay. Like in the turn of the century or whatever the fuck it was,

the 1700s. No, they didn't eat deer. They didn't prefer it. I mean, they ate it if they had if they were hungry. I do. I love it. But the thing is, They wouldn't eat the deer? No, they didn't eat deer. They didn't prefer it. I mean, they ate it if they had to if they were hungry. Do you like venison? I do. I love it. But the thing is, that's

preferred now, whereas black bear meat... Is it riskier with venison? No. No, it's not. No, no, no. Okay. Venison's not... It's not risky yet. Here's the thing. Because there's all kinds of weird... There's a threat. But here's a threat. The threat is CWD. What CWD is called chronic wasting disease

and it's like... Yeah, I've seen that. It's a prion disease. So it's like mad cow disease, but it hasn't jumped to humans yet. So it only exists in deer, but it exists in a lot of deer. And people are terrified that it's going to make a jump to humans. Have you had any experiences with ticks? I personally have not, but I have very good friends that have gotten Lyme disease. And one of my good friends got what's called alpha gal.

And alpha gal is an allergy to red meat. So he had a tick that burrowed in his belly button. Oh, no. And he pulled his fucking tick out after like a day or whatever it was. Like, you don't, they numb down. But can't you take antibiotics for that? It depends. Because there's so many different.

It depends if you know what happened. Like you might not feel bad at first. You might wait a while. And your doctor might misdiagnose it. My buddy, he brought his son in. And his son had like Bell's palsy. Like his face went numb. And the doctor was like, no, there's nothing wrong.

And then he eventually got them to test and figure out that it was Lyme disease. But the doctor was immediately sort of dismissive. I think when the Bell's palsy kicked in, that's when the doctor looked at him. But before, the doctor was trying to play it off like it was nothing. Because they don't know. Yeah. And the weird thing about Lyme disease is that they think it might be connected to this thing called, is it called Meniere's disease?

Look up Meniere's disease? Look up Meniere's disease. There's this thing that they, where people seem to be losing their mind and thinking that like strings are growing out of their skin. And they think that this disease is connected to Lyme disease because the people that get it almost all have Lyme disease and they think that Lyme disease may have some sort of a neurotoxic effect. Yes. Is that Meniere's disease? Well, Lyme disease is...

No, that's not it? Lyme disease, they call it... This is an inner ear disease thing. Oh, that's right. That's what Dana White has. That's when you have a tinnitus. It's like a... But they call it the great imitator because Lyme disease can manifest in all these different ways.

In all your systems. Yeah, but hang on. I'm going to go crazy if I don't figure this out. There's like a skin thing. Morgellons. Morgellons, thank you. Morgellons, that's right, Morgellons. So this Morgellons disease, we actually went to a conference.

I did this sci-fi show a long time ago. We went to a conference to talk to these people, and one of the things that I found was fascinating, like this is a doctor who had it, and this disease is like you see like worms moving behind your eyelids but they're not there but they're not there and wait like it's like it's not there like psychotic you see it but it's not really there you you're hallucinating so what and then you start picking at your skin because you think like fibers are growing out of it. And then you literally. So you're on acid. No, there's some sort of a neurological thing that happens with Lyme's disease in some people. So some people that have Lyme disease, it's standard symptoms.

But this doctor was saying that some people, they have hallucinations. And they think it might be a part of this. The way he described it to me, I'm paraphrasing. I'm doing my best. He was saying that essentially a tick doesn't just have this one disease. It probably has a myriad of diseases, and some of them we haven't even fucking recognized yet. Is it considered a parasite? Oh, yeah.

Ticks are parasites. That's so scary. They cling to you and suck your blood. They're gross. I saw your post today about the tongue thing with the carp. That's a cunty little bug, right? That's disgusting. That's disgusting.

That's horrible. Well, you know that's what the angel of, Ben wrote the angel of death. I did not write that song. What did he write? About a parasite? He wrote it about after watching planet earth and all of these. Oh, the documentary series? Specific species that would take over your brain.

It's a terrifying thought, but it happens. And God forbid it happens to us. It seems like no matter what you are, whether you're a frog or an eagle or a wolf, whether you're a frog or an eagle or a wolf, like there's a system in place that's designed to encourage innovation and success and growth and strength and dominance and also weed out the weak. And weed out the weak,

whether it's weak psychologically, weak socially, weak culturally, weak physically. It's all things. It's like everything is a test no matter what happens with humans there's everything is a test are you going to be a victim or a victor are you going to be successful or a failure are you going to be happy or sad are you going to be weak are you going to be strong are you going to be loving are you going to be an asshole like there's's this constant incoming flux of information and a battle of

how to react and how to behave. We're all caught up in the middle of it. And then you have government. And government starts steering it like, well, the problem is, oh, these people who don't have TSA pre. They go after

specific groups of people and turn you on them did you see that crazy video of that lady with no mask on yelling at a man on a plane to put your mask on no it is the wildest shit ever because it is the most 2021 video of all time this lady hits this guy zombie apocalypse not yet no that's not gonna happen it's gonna be that's gonna like many, many generations from now. What we're dealing with right now is like this sort of a reckoning that we're all kind of responsible for the tone of the civilization that's around us. Where all of us sort of looked at the civilization that was in place, the culture that was in place, and said that, well, this is just how it's always been. This is how it will

be for the foreseeable future, and I'm just going to operate on the idea that all this was set up by some super intelligent people that really had a good sense of the future. Because we see that in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, we see that. They've kind of figured out, hey, this could go sideways, and this is how it could go sideways, so you can't give anyone power for any long period of time. Sure. Like four years in, then people get to reassess. Then you get another four years.

And they figured out some parameters where they felt like they could foresee how human beings could go apeshit with power and how they could correct for that. But the big ones are the freedom of speech that's a big one that's giant the fact that people want to fuck with that it's like oh my god you there's no other way than letting everybody talk there's no other way that includes like the people that are like if the Nazis have the power to silence the people who aren't the nazis that's bad right well guess what if the people who aren't nazis have the power to silence the nazis that can be equally bad because for whatever fucked up reason some people are going

to listen to those folks and if those if they get shut down if they get shut down left and right and they don't have to engage with someone who clearly has better ideas than them or the whole world gets to see, well, this idea sucks because it was tested on the battlefield of discourse. That's what it's supposed to happen. Right. Like they're supposed to talk about things. Like when you have someone who has a terrible idea. There's no room for discussion. There's no discussion.

But there is. There's just too many people have too much power to shut it down. So their initial impulse is to shut it down. But that's just because we haven't had this power before. And we're like, shut it down, shut it down. And the people shut it down like, wow, we've got to shut it down. The power to shut things down. Like a small group of people can just decide that they're going to protest something and shut everything down.

They can decide to change. Like the Dave Chappelle thing is a great example. What Dave did in that special was respond to previous anger at him about what they perceive to be transphobic comments with talking about his friend. If you look him up on Wikipedia, that's one of the first things that comes up. That's ridiculous. That's okay. That's okay.

You don't have to believe that. The reality of it is if you listen to the special, it's a story about a person that he loved. I know. It's not. But here's why. Infuriating. It is, but it's not. The problem is not that a small percentage of people reacted in the way they did and started shutting things down.

reacted in the way they did and started shutting things down. The problem is that we're all willing to consider what a small percentage of people are furious about rather than what we think. Because it's too hard to gather your own opinion independently on every subject, especially when you could be called out for it or people can decide they're going to attack you for it. You know, there's just it doesn't mean that we can't all do better but what it does mean is we can't get anywhere if we just attack each other mercilessly and without logic here's the thing about dave chappelle first of all he's one of the nicest people i've ever met in my life he's brilliant you've met him he's wonderful big fan here's the other thing when

you when they're talking about this material they're not citing specific bits have you noticed that with this they keep saying the transphobic this they're not saying there's all these keywords that are used yeah that that that counter the actual experience of listening to his his his special it's like but there's also like tribes it's like reading the headline but you didn't read the whole article you know there's tribes that you belong to where they have an idea oh dave you know dave chappelle said something transphobic and you just get mad at him And you don't know exactly what he said. Yeah. I have to say that, like, I'm ashamed to admit that I was in that vacuum for a little while in L.A. Not against Dave or anything, but, like, I was part of on my own agency and I wasn't, I was losing my sense of myself. And I'll be honest with you, when I came here to visit you guys last December,

I, you know, I was in my bubble in LA and, and I saw that you and Dave were doing stand-up at Stubbs and I hadn't, you know, played or seen any shows all year and I really wanted to come see you guys. And I called you and you were like, just come down, get on a plane. I was like, well, shouldn't I drive? Shouldn't I not touch anything? And, you know, and you were like just just come down and you know i it honestly joe like it changed my life because i i'm i got on a plane i came here to visit i ended up singing with gary everybody got cooties that night except you and me well i'm still standing and you and me were

the only ones that didn't get that night i don't know if i did who fucking knows like you we but we test you for antibodies did we test you before today or today the only ones that didn't get it that night. I don't know if I did. Who fucking knows? But we test you for antibodies. I know. Did we test you before today or today the only day for antibodies? You did, but I don't think it was a blood test. I thought it was a swab. Well, we definitely did a regular swab, which is a rapid antigen test. The finger hurts.

That's hilarious. But wait, let me. So like point is you had talked to me about leaving L.A., right? And I came here because I wanted to see some art. I wanted to see you. I wanted to see Dave. I've always wanted to see Dave. I'd never seen him before at that point.

And you got to see him in a historical time. I did. It was his idea to do these shows. We did these shows at Stubbs, but it was purely Dave's idea. He was like, we can't let him take this thing. He goes, we got to keep this rolling. We got to give these people some fun. Man, I was laughing and I was crying because it was fucking beautiful.

And he developed that set that people saw on this last thing. It was so powerful. it was so powerful and and then you know um like the whole thing was really magical because um I also was like fuck should I move to Texas like what should I do and I'm like like you and Gary and then a couple other friends I have were like the only people I knew here and I I like I don't know I think I told you the story but like not recently but when I left the podcast that we did December something of 2020 you you mean Gary I decided to drive around and I was like oh man I should like I've only been here when I've been touring or there's festivals so it's like madness yeah and and I was driving down some street I I didn't know where I was and um I like you know ask God or the universe I was like man should I move to Texas this is so crazy I like not in a million years

seems like it gets pretty hot here you know and I was driving down some street. I mean, this is a true story. This is fucking wild to me. And I was driving my rental car and there were these people walking in the street with their dog. And I slowed down and then I looked over and it was my friend Alejandro Shaky Graves. Who's the only other person really that I knew at the time in Austin. And I started I started crying I was like what the fuck like I okay like I guess I got my answer I guess I should move to this place and and I in the like coming months like I I basically got a this house that uh was handed down from a friend of a friend which was like a little more than I paid in rent for

a one-bedroom apartment in LA so I have this like really cute little cottage house with a big backyard and and then i i met this person this this love of my life and and my life changed forever but the the point is like the nucleus of the story is i came here to see you and dave because i wanted i wanted do you want to have some fun i wanted some see you and Dave because I wanted I wanted do you want to have some fun I wanted some medicine you know I wanted I wanted to laugh I wanted art and I was deprived of that like all of us were yeah and there's something to be said about that there's something to be said about shutting people away from the things that feed us and feed our spirit and well what can be said is about whether or not someone should be able to tell you that you

can't correct go out you can't take a risk and this idea that you're going to control if you don't want to go then don't fucking go the the realists looked at it and said you're not going to control a respiratory virus the realists look at it and said you might be able to mitigate some risk by making people follow certain protocols where you would spread it less easily. But God damn, some of these things are like really good. This new Omicron, is that how you say it? Omicron or Omicron? I keep saying Omnicron, but it's Omicron. Omicron is crazy contagious. Just bananas contagious.

Everybody I know, but they were sick for two days. But that's the problem, is that it doesn't fit the fear-mongering headlines. The fear-mongering headlines are, there's a hurricane of viral demons coming your way. Have you heard? There's a compilation. I'm going to play you this compilation without copyright, without any use of... Can I pee really fast?

Yeah, go pee. Okay, because I want to see this, but it's getting bad. Let me play this. You can hear it. Blizzard! A blizzard! There's a blizzard! A blizzard!

Was this on No Agenda? No, I found it on Twitter. Oh my God. One infectious disease expert saying a viral blizzard is about to hit this country. Right. Brought to you by Pfizer. You know, this is why I love No Agenda, because they put it, they give you such a perspective when

they concentrate all of it and you're just like, oh my God, they're all saying the same bullshit. Yeah, no agenda. He operates literally with no agenda. He's such a fan. He's so smart that he's managed to make himself completely independent of the system. Suzanne, go pee.

I will. We'll be right back. But Jamie, what are we going to do? From your perspective as a producer of a podcast that gets seen by millions of people, you're looking at things all the time. You're paying attention

to trends. You're looking at online activity, metaverse bullshit, all this stuff. Where are we going? Something's happening, right? Civilization is clearly at a tipping point, right? I could be cynical on that and go, maybe. Because those days I don't look at my phone, you forget stuff.

It's going wild. For sure. But eventually it's going to affect you, like the way you pay your bills, whether or not you get credit. It's going to affect you, like the way you pay your bills, whether or not you get credit. It's going to affect you, right? If they institute some sort of a social credit system, it's going to affect you. Are you worried about that at all? Yeah, I heard someone talk about something like that over the weekend.

What'd they say? Like a global credit score of some kind or something like that. We talked about the Yahoo article, right, where they said that they were going to base it in some part or something like that. Did you see the, we talked about the Yahoo article, right? Where they said that they were going to base it in some part on your browser history. Well, they talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. Where the idea was they were floating it out there that your browser history might make you available for more credit.

Hmm. So the idea would be that If you gave up all the shit You looked up They would allow you to have more credit Because they know hey well he's not Googling bulletproof vests or fucking Freeze dried food If they did that though people would just make burner accounts

To look online instantly Yeah but if they track your fucking device Like who knows what kind of ability They have to actually track your phone Or your laptop, right? Like, if Edward Snowden didn't tell us about their ability to essentially, like, mass store every fucking phone call and email you've ever made,

if Edward Snowden didn't tell us about what the NSA was cooking up, we would have never guessed it. So who knows what the fuck is going on right now? You should assume that everything you say is constantly being monitored and recorded whether you're saying it on a phone off a phone oh look at suzanne she's back like will harris shared a post today about a guy who went uh spent the week at his mom's house and is now getting advertisements for his mother's toothpaste oh my god and they never talked about it and all but it explained why why that's happening well your phone's listening no no it has nothing to do with that it's it's like it knows everything you've bought because

of all of the terms and conditions you've you've done so like right it's checking your email and all of that stuff oh yeah for sure that and then linking that with like i sort of said this like a week or two ago it'll have uh your phone's social security number if you will it's like a mobile id number it's the right e-i-n and all that kind of stuff it's linking that with gps data so it'll know like me and you and suzanne are all with each other right so she'll start getting advertisements for stuff you're buying thinking and hoping that you might see uh an advertisement i'm getting that's what i want like suzanne will see an ad you missed like hey joe did you see this thing?

I bet you would love this. Well, what about when you talk about something and then you get an ad for that something that you've never seen an ad for before? It could be coincidence. It could have known that you were watching TV because it's coming through a streaming service now and it knows you would have seen the ad. So it's re-giving it to you. It's redistributing it to you. Right. Like the only reason why I know about it is would have seen the ad so it's it's read it's regiving it to you you know it's like it's redistributing it to you right like the only reason why i know about it is i've seen an ad yeah like i've been using youtube tv for two or three years now and i recently watched i don't remember the reason why but like over the air uh football game you

know like over the antenna the advertisements are so different and i like you don't even realize it right but i have had conversations with you or with a lot of people where i'm talking about something and then all of a sudden i get an ad for that thing and like google ads i also think there's a lot of uh it's how many ads do you get all day that you're that doesn't happen to and you're like oh shit i mentioned that thing yesterday and also when you mention it are you mentioning it because it's in the public zeitgeist and why did you did you say it? Right, and then it gets out there. That's possible, too. But that's the thing, is you have to be really honest about what's the source of whatever the fuck it is. And the problem is people get really tribal.

And when they get really tribal, they don't want to admit that maybe they don't totally understand what's happening. Like, is my phone listening to me? Fuck, it might be. It seems like it is. Definitely. Might be. Why wouldn't to me? Fuck, it might be. It seems like it is. Definitely. Might be. Why wouldn't it be? They definitely have the technology. If they know if Suzanne Santos is talking some shit,

they can just listen to that bitch's phone all day long. They know, right? They know they can do that. If Joe Rogan is saying something stupid, they can check his phone. You know they can. I know they can. We all know they can. So if that's the case, how are they doing that? And are they using that technology all the time?

Why would you just use it on potential criminals or enemies of the state or what have you? You could use it on the entire fucking population and make trillions of dollars in advertiser revenue. Wouldn't you do that? What are you, stupid? Use it on everybody. Hey, hey, guys. We just get metadata. We don't even know who it is.

We're going to send the ads to their phones. We give you a little piece, a little taste. It's also just ads. Wire ads. We know better, at least to some extent. I don't. They're all for ads. See, I don't.

Well, some of them you do. I buy coolers I don't need. I'm like, I want a blue Yeti. It looks so good. I'm a moron. But that's when I've tapped into something that you're looking at. I do. I buy coolers I don't need. I'm like, I want a blue Yeti. It looks so good. I'm a moron. But that's when I've tapped into something that you're looking at. I'll take your excess coolers. I have a cooler for you.

There's a bunch of ads you don't fall for. Yes. But also, we sign up for it. I saw a cock ring. They're selling cock rings. Oh, my God. Yeah. But we sign up for that stuff.

Like, when you sign your cell phone thing, there's all kinds of bullshit in there. Well, nobody reads terms and agreements. When was the last time you read terms and agreements for anything? I think it's a very rare breed that ever takes the time for that. You smoking one of them dad joints? I'm smoking a dad grass. Is that a Seattle thing? Is that still from Seattle?

I think they're from L.A. That was from L.A.? Really? I think so. Can't read anymore, right? You're with me. It's old people eyeballs. Hold on, there's a QR code.

Oh, thank you, sir. Is it Delta 8 or is it I saw someone selling HHC now? You do it like... I just got my eyelashes. Oh, no, it didn't. No, it didn't. No, it was nowhere near. I think they're still there.

There's nowhere near your eyelashes. They got hot. It's surprisingly potent, you know? How does this work? Okay. There you go. I was listening to this podcast today. They were talking about duck sticks.

Are they still there? Yeah, they're all there. You look great. I don't know. It did not burn your- I've lost them before. Suzanne, you did not burn your eyelashes. I got a check.

No, no, no. You barely touched the cigarette. It's just- That was scary. You flip it. Delta 8. I got a story about Delta 8. That stuff's nonsense.

That should be illegal. I'm with the state. The state wants You flip it. Delta 8. I got a story about Delta 8. That stuff's nonsense. That should be illegal. I'm with the state. The state wants to ban it. There's HHC now, which is like even a derivative of that. Ban that too. Ban that too. What? These pussies need to go to war or stay home.

Either go to war or stay home. We can't like take fake weed over real weed. If you can get the Delta 8, you should be able to get what Suzanne has. Lashes. Eyelashes. Wait, Lashes. Eyelashes. Wait, let me. Eyelashes and Snoop Dogg weeds. So when my record came out in August, you know, like a lot of buildup.

And then it came out on Thursday. And Friday, a good friend of mine and Nick's gave us all these Delta 8s. And I didn't know what Delta 8 was. Edible or just smokeable? I had no idea. And this might be child's play to you because you're you, but I ate one Friday in the middle of the day. Oh, I'm going to have to spark up another joint to hear this story.

And I didn't know what I was getting into because it was street legal, and I'm in Texas, so I thought, like, you know, I lived in California for so long. I've had edibles and all that shit. I was high until midday Sunday and fucking incapacitated. And I was just like, I had. And I started to like do some research and ask around. And I apparently had like the equivalent of like 70 milligrams of THC. That's it? Which for you, exactly.

70? I'm a 5 mil kind of gal. I'm lightweight. I'm only a purple belt. Joey Diaz is the grandmaster. He's a coral belt. I've been on planes with Joey Diaz and I've been terrified and I watch him pop two more extra 200 milligram ones in his mouth. That's fucking insane. He's

insane. That's insane. I've seen it. He goes, Joe Rogan, I was in the middle of a panic attack. And then he takes these two more and he throws them down the hatch. And I'm like, no! We're like halfway across the country on our way to New Jersey. And this guy is eating stars of death. No way. It's crazy.

It's so potent. Yeah. I mean. They're so potent. I'm sensitive across the board. But you and I are very different than potent. I'm sensitive across the board. Like I. But you and I are very different than Jamie. Jamie can eat a thousand milligrams.

I'm sorry. What? No bullshit. Jamie has the weird. Jamie might be an alien. Are you an alien? I'm not kidding. When's your birthday?

He's the best one handed Googler the world's ever known. Is it? Are you Capricorn? Congratulations. The thing that's important about him though. Very organized is he doesn't get high off of edibles. It doesn't work on him. Can you get drunk? Sure.

Okay, cool. There's something about edibles. It's an edible thing. It doesn't work. He'll just sit there and stare at you. Crazy. So you just metabolize it differently. He's got a thousand milligrams in him. Yeah.

Did you ever hear that story about a monk that, I forget who went to visit him and gave him LSD. And they were trying to talk to these monks and tell them that this. Yeah, sure. They were trying to tell them that this thing that he had would bring him immediate instant bliss. Enlightenment. Enlightenment. Enlightenment. And he ate like 50 doses worth and just laughs at the guy.

He goes, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. Like it didn't even work on him. Wow. Now, I got this from Duncan Trussell, and he might have got it from someone who's really in love with crystals. So no one can tell whether or not that's true. But it might be true.

It sounds like a fun thing to say. It's fun to think to some guy out there that doesn't have sex, that eats only tofu, and he's just breathing all day. Right. And you give him an acid and he doesn't even blink. Well, actually, I know a couple people that have this immense capacity of meditation that is, I would say, on par with psychedelics and acid and all that stuff. No, I think so too. It's not on par with the actual experience when it's at its peak, but there's people that are sober that don't need anything

that have a weird understanding of how things work. I told you there's a viral TikTok video a couple months ago, and now they've come up with a new term for this called Eddie Blocked. There are people that are like me that are Eddie Blocked. They're not able to get high off of edibles.

That makes sense. It's a key liver enzyme, apparently. Really? Yeah. Well, we all know people who are alcoholics, right? But if you smoke, does that have a difference? Oh, I mean, I can get high instantly. That's it right there?

Yeah. Eddie Blocked. Some people can't get high from eating marijuana there it goes you know what's interesting is um i mean i don't think people even fucking knew that it was different until like the 2000s when people found out about uh diet like all the different metabolites that are created when you eat it. 11-hydroxy metabolites, the big one. When you eat it, it's so different than smoking it. Really? Yeah, it's way different.

Oh, yeah, of course. But it's four to five times more psychoactive. So if you have like 20 milligrams of THC and then you eat it, it's a totally different experience than smoking it. Not to get too personal here, but they have those suppositories. Hey. What has Suzanne been doing? So they can personally only use them for severe menstrual cramps.

What goes up must come down. And I can tell you, it's a great feeling. But it's weird because it's just like in your abdomen in this way that like. Oh, here we go. I just Googled. Suppositories. I typically take suppositories about 15 to 20 minutes to fully melt and absorb into the body said reeves reeves sounds like a freak he sounds like he lives in sedona and he's selling out memberships so if

you're using them for sexual purposes be sure to wait at least that long before penetration play penetration play is the creepiest fucking two words together ever yeah it's pretty weird but it's pretty weird i I've never used it for fun, but I've used it for pain, and it's pretty incredible. Well, it's good. It's the best way to get it into your bloodstream, right? It's like, people

are just scared of their butts. Well, I'm not talking about my butt. Oh, you go up the other way. Oh, well, that works. That makes sense. But it says suppositories. I'm thinking about butt. Oh, vagina suppositories. Vagina, yeah. Oh, well, that works. Yeah. That makes sense. But it says suppositories. I'm thinking about butt. It's marketed as such. Oh, vagina suppositories. Vagina, yeah.

Oh, suppositories that answer to better, less painful sex. But, you know, it's great for cramps. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, look, it's a magic plant. I mean, it does so many different things. I'm a gigantic fan of CBD. Really?

I always feel like I can't tell if it does anything. If you have inflammation from exercise, if you have inflammation from all kinds of different weird things in life, there's two things you can do to change that. One, alter your diet. It might have something to do. It might be genetic. Yeah, it might be genetic, but it might also have something to do it might be genetic yeah it might be genetic but it might also be have something to do with the foods you're eating where you have a bad reaction to

them find out what that is they tell you to go on like an elimination diet like maybe you go all vegan or you go all carnivore whatever the fuck it is it's like find out what what what keeps you from having this constant state of inflammation you might be allergic to something too she she probably checked to see if you are allergic to something. I'm sure I am. Everybody is, right? But the other thing they say is you gotta do something

that's healthy for you that has these anti-inflammation properties to it. In my experience, CBD has been one of the best because when you work out a lot, you get sore joints. Do you take it as a tincture or something or as a topical? Everything.

I take a topical. I take oral. I take gummies. I eat gummies. I take drops. I do drops. I take CBD. And you can feel a difference?

Yeah, 100%. Okay. And you can feel a difference? Yeah, 100%. I've had what they would call turf toe, where my toes almost have arthritis from kicking things. Okay. Because when you're kicking a heavy bag, you have this thing that's hanging there. It's 150 pounds, and you're fucking stabbing it with the ball of your foot, and your toe gets compressed all the time. And plus, you're pushing off of it, so there's a lot of repetitive use. The thing that helps you more than anything is cbd no shit more than anything i've had other things from like all the angles i do but i don't do any like rub on stuff on my toes i just i just take drops or i

take uh gummies cool yeah i take the cbd md has like super potent gummies and i'll take like 10 of them. You know, they don't hurt you. No, it doesn't get you high at all. No, I mean like they're sweet. It's like you get like a little candy. Sure. Yeah. But there's a lot of people that sell CBD mixed with THC.

The problem with that is if you have a square job, like if you work somewhere where they're going to test your pee pee, like Suzanne, we don't trust your body. They don't do that with musicians. We're going to test your pee pee. But if you did. They can back the your body. They don't do that with musicians. We're going to test your pee-pee. But if you did. They can back the fuck off. Can you imagine if you worked for some firm? No.

And you're like, Suzanne, we would love to have you climb the corporate ladder. It was never in the cards for me. Actually. Check that urine. Never mind. Piss in the bucket,

please. Please. I think my only other option of a, like, other job would have been selling spaghetti and pizza in Cleveland. That's not a bad job. Not a bad job.

People are happy. It's a great job. They eat good food. They feel good when they eat. Well, you're entertaining too. You know, there's something about feeding people is, you know, I love to cook. It's a, it's not a bad alternative. It's a legitimate connection with people because it's like the pleasure centers of the brain

are activated by good food. Yeah. And also and oh yeah friendship all that stuff in the good one good food is yeah yeah i mean my like wheatgrass juice is not really love not particularly it's not hate but like if you drink wheatgrass kind of neutral you're just deciding i want to be healthy well it's nice when you're in that zone of like, I'm taking care of myself and I know wheatgrass and ginger and all that stuff are good juice. You know, it's good. It's good. I think the wheatgrass lobby might have pulled a fucking fast one on us. Oh, yeah?

You think it's bullshit? I'm not buying it anymore. It tastes terrible. I feel like things that are good for you should taste good. You know. Up until like cake. This is funny. good for you. It should taste good. Up until cake.

This is funny. Recently a good friend of mine here in Austin told me about this stuff called black oxygen. Oh, that's that bullshit they were talking about the other day, Jamie. Oh my God. I started taking it, Joe. It's powder form. It's dirt.

You're eating dirt. It's fulvic acid which is minerals. Which is dirt. I was taking it and then I was actually losing some weight. Of course you were. You were dying. This is nice. You're eating dirt, and you're dying. So Nick went to go buy us some more.

No, Nick! And you couldn't find it anywhere, because literally- Because it's illegal. That day, I'm not kidding you. That day was like December 6th or some shit. It came out that this was like some fucking pyramid scheme. Yeah. And there was arsenic and lead.

And you couldn't get it on Amazon. You couldn't even find their website. And I was like, oh, my God. Bro. Oh, so I've been poisoning myself. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Crazy as that can be a thing. I'm fine, by the way.

Someone could literally sell dirt. Like, I got an idea, bro. Imagine a bunch of guys in a fucking apartment somewhere in Santa Monica they've been doing this for centuries this has been like

this is a thing I know but the fact just like all the other it got to you smoke and mirrors it got to you it did listen if that ever comes up

please run it by me yeah if someone gives me a new thing yeah I'll run it up the totem pole I'll get an answer quick thank you friend

there's always someone who will go hey hey hey no well you know the thing is thank you I appreciate that I'll get an answer quick. Thank you, friend. There's always someone who will go, hey, hey, hey. No. Well, you know, the thing is, thank you. I appreciate that. I am after a life of health and vitality and joy. And so, you know, I exercise a lot.

And I keep a fairly, you know, like concise diet, give or take, getting stoned, eating cereal at midnight. But whatever. Cereal is delicious. It's so good. Why is it so good when it's so bad for you? Oh, I love it. diet give or take getting stoned eating cereal at midnight but whatever it was delicious it's so good why is it so good when it's so bad for you what's your what's your like guilty pleasure which one we buy peanut butter Captain Crunch mission count chocolate which one you gonna grab so we're more of the berry loops like we do fruit loops and kind of like but we'll get the like organic fruit loops I like golden grams to what was that we had a sponsor for a while But we'll get the like organic Fruit Loops. Oh, that's bullshit. No, no, no, no, no.

I like Golden Grahams too. What was that? We had a sponsor for a while that had like a keto breakfast cereal. Magic Spoon. Pretty fucking good. It's pretty good. You know what? It's like 70% of the taste with zero guilt.

And I put honey on that. On that keto stuff. Oh, you're a terrible person. No, honey's good. It's fucking natural. No, no, no. They fuck up the whole vibe. No, it's okay. No, you have no sugar. Maybe a little cinnamon. Look, honey's good. It's fucking natural. No, no, no. Fuck up the whole vibe. No, it's okay.

No, you have no sugar. Maybe a little cinnamon. Look, don't stomp on my dreams. It's not. Isn't it fucked that sugar is such a siren song? It just pulls you right into the rocks. Like, ah. You're just like, I'll take it.

Give me the tiramisu. Crash. Right into the rocks. Face first. I love tiramisu. Fuck. Tiramisu is my all-time favorite. Yeah me the tiramisu. Crash. Run to the rocks. Face first. I love tiramisu. Fuck. Tiramisu is my all-time favorite. Yeah, it's so good.

Tiramisu is my all-time favorite. What are you, Italian? I'm a fucking Italian over here. Yeah. Tiramisu is my number one. If I could have just tiramisu, if I went last day on earth, 100%. Love it. Big fan.

I even compote on it or no. I'm a bad Italian. I don't like cheesecake. You don't like cheesecake? That doesn't mean you're a bad Italian. It means you recognize that tiramisu is better. If tiramisu and cheesecake are right next to each other, then tiramisu looks like it's properly prepared. The correct move is

to go with the tiramisu. That stuff gets on the roof of your mouth. It's okay. Tiramisu is better. Tiramisu is like, there's something about like when they have the little cocoa powder

on the top of the cream and the cheese. Was it mascarpone cheese? Yes, yes. Oh my God. Yeah. It's so creamy.

When done well. You're like, you're such a bad person. It's like, this is so wonderful. I think that we have to enjoy these delicacies more. Like that baby with the pizza. Yeah, exactly.

That's what we have to be. Like your Christmas. Just eat your pie, Joe. Yeah. Eat your pie. No, no, no. I ate too much pie. Look, the thing is, you're too determined.

That's the problem. I add that to pie. Like, I'm determined to eat more pie. Like, once I eat a piece of pie, I'm like, let's go. You're never going to turn into Fat Thor. It doesn't matter. It's like Slayer songs start playing. You're just Rogan Thor. And then

I want to conquer this fucking cherry pie. It's not good. No, you're going to be fine. I don't appreciate that I'm going to feel like shit for like 12 hours afterwards. That's the problem. 12 hours? Yeah. Did you sleep that night?

Yeah. Okay. But I always have like crazy nightmares too. Like when you have too much sugar in your system, like your body's trying to fight off demons. Totally. I had a nightmare last night that I was late for the Rogan podcast. Like I did the last time and it was this real odyssey. You were late last time?

No, but I had the same dream that I was late. But last time, Brad Pitt was my boyfriend, and I was late. And I had it last night. I was late, and I realized. So it was like Nick and I were at this bar that I love called The Sagebrush here. They have all these pool tables, and they always have live music, and it's great. Where's that at? It's farther down on South Congress in Austin.

It's great. It's just like a honky tonk. Oh, nice. And we shoot a lot of pool. It's really fun. Do you shoot like that bullshit bar pool or do you shoot like a real table? What do you mean?

I don't want to shame you. Shame me. Little tiny tables. No, they're full tables. You put coins in? Oh, yeah, you put coins in. So that's a bar table. You want a nine foot table. That's a real pool. Jamie, yeah, you put coins in. So that's a bar table. You want a nine-foot table?

That's real cool. That's like, Jamie, you're a basketball player. If you played basketball in a tiny little bullshit room like this size, you retired from basketball? Yeah, last week. Really? No. Because of the golf addiction?

I was actually shooting baskets last night for the first time in about three years. Let's say it this way. Instead of basketball, because I know you actually have a wicked three-pointer. If golf was on a very small lot. It makes it easy. Right. It'd be a problem. It's a par three.

But it wouldn't be the same. Okay, okay, okay. First of all, I beat you on your own table one time. What happened? I scratched? No, you did not scratch. You won? I did win. Seems odd.

No, it was... I was probably trying to set you up for a bet. Gary was there too. We had a witness. Okay, first of all, we're going to play after this. We'll see. Okay. You can actually play a little pool. You're a smart person. You know where the ball's going. You figure it out. You think it through.

I love pool. I've played a lot, but you had a glove on the first time we. I love pool. I know you do. I've played a lot, but you had a glove on the first time we played together. Well, I have sweaty hands. Here's the thing. I'm fully aware when I put this glove on, I'm going to be made fun of.

I won't make fun of you. It's like a little black glove. I respect you. It's only over two fingers, folks. Well, two fingers and a thumb. It's because my fingers sweat and I have these Kamui gloves. It makes the cue slide through my fingers better. I know. It's because my fingers sweat, and I have these Kamui gloves. It makes the cue slide through my fingers better.

I know. It's a joke. I'm like, while I'm doing it, I'm like, I'm a loser. I know, but this is better. First of all, you're a pool athlete, and you have passion, and I respect that. Look, you get your gear, you know? No, it's better with a glove than no glove. That's the only reason why I do it.

Don't I know it. Not true. You feel like a loser. You do feel like a guy with a glove on. You know. But a lot of the best players of the world, like if you looked at all the best players in the world, I would say at least 50% of them are wearing pool gloves.

I mean, it's like a delicacy. It's like, how do you want to do this? You're right. I like playing not slop. We don't play slop, but playing at the bar. We can play slop. No, we're not going to play slop. I know how to play.

We're not playing slop. That's not why I said it. First of all, that's insulting. It's fun. It's fun to play wild. The balls are wild. That's how gamblers play. Oh, I love to gamble.

When they gamble on nine ball, they play all the balls wild. Wait, what does that mean? That means if you go to shoot one ball in a side pocket. Oh, we're talking gambling on pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you gamble on nine ball. One of the reasons why nine ball is a gambler's game, and this goes back to decades and decades ago, is that nine ball is kind of a wild game in

that all the balls are wild. Like if you went to shoot the one ball in the corner, but you missed and it bounced three rails and went into the side pocket, still good. Right. Still good. Okay. It counts because the ball went in the hole. You didn't have to want to make it in that hole.

But here's the thing. I prefer the intentional. Right. But it favors the person who makes the best shots. But the luck factor makes it exciting for people watching. Because you can see a person who's a better person. I prefer skill over luck. I do too.

But there's something fun about watching a nine ball ricochet around a fucking table when someone missed and then going into the corner pocket yeah yeah you're like i love the lot of exciting love that yeah so the skill for players decided to invest in 10 ball what 10 ball is is nine ball plus another ball you have to call every shot okay so it's rotation the way nine ball is but it also has no luck involved at all and then gamblers started moving towards that. But that's a little trickier when you're betting on ten ball. There's a difference between, sometimes you'll over-assess

how good someone is at nine ball and then you see them at ten ball. That one extra ball that you have to maneuver around to knock that one into makes a giant percentage. Maybe 10%, whatever it is. There's a difference, yeah. And if you played 15 balls, if you do those in rotation, then you would really see the difference in players.

Like there's a guy named Efren Reyes, arguably the greatest of all time from the Philippines. One of the greats, for sure. Played rotation, which is like a 15 ball game in the Philippines. So you get so used to playing with 15 balls that nine balls was easy. So when you came over to America,

you had a way better sense of where the ball was going than people who just played nine balls. So pool. Pool's like, there's a thing going on with pool. It's like testing where you are in the moment. It's not just testing whether or not you know how to shoot a ball. It's how together are you? How bad do you hate yourself?

100%. 100%. Joe, you're so right. I was literally talking to Nick about this last night. I said, I compared that sentiment to other areas in my life where I was like, when I'm doubting myself, I'm like, I'm not going to make this.

But I can. I have the skill. I know how to play pool. I'm actually doubting myself, you know, I'm like, I'm not going to make this, but I can, like, I have the skill. I know how to play pool. I'm actually pretty good, but there's this mental game going on. Just like tennis. I love tennis. When I play tennis, there, there's a, um, I'm pretty competitive. I wouldn't normally admit that, but I've had a few in the SIM competitive.

I, the mental game is everything i mean you know yeah you know and and i i can attribute that to pool in that way where like before i even get to the table and i line it up i'm like and i start doubting and telling myself you know whatever but when i'm in a different state of mind i'm like think like and i'll have the the table for five six'm in a different state of mind, I'm like, and I'll have the table for five, six games in a row and I've done it, but it's a weird internal struggle I have with making war on Suzanne. You should go pro.

Making war on Suzanne. I need to be nice to Suzanne. There's a song there. I know. I'm telling you. I know. I know. She's cool.

Dude, we've been talking for almost three fucking hours. It's 420. I didn't know that. How is that possible? Well, it's for your fun. Jamie knows. He's like, God, I'm so bored with this. Are you bored?

No. Oh. I'm not. Jamie is. Look at him. Look at him. He's falling asleep over there. What's your typical podcast time frame these days?

There's no, I mean, it's usually generally around three hours everyone has to pee. Yeah. But we already peed. Yeah. You know, it's like. You know, it's usually generally around three hours everyone has to pee. Yeah. But we already peed. Yeah. You know, it's like. You know, those toilets are pretty low. They're like squatty potty. Some of them are.

Yeah. Some of them are low. And the ladies room, apparently, they're very low. The men's room, they're normal size. It was fun. I was like. Yeah. We've been here a whole year, but we still haven't like totally like figured this place

out. It's wonderful. No, I think the squatty potty's great. Squatty potties are good. Have you ever used that thing that you put under the feet of the toilet? You sit on it? It's great. You put your feet on it? It's good. We're supposed to squat

over holes. Isn't that nuts? There's this book called Oh My God. It's by Oh boy. It's by Oh boy It's about your digestive system Your what? Your digestive system

Sorry Your fault That's Buffalo Trace coming home Your digestive system Can you edit that out? No keep it in God damn it That part we keep it in

Only the legal stuff we edit out. Probably we can get edit happy. It's about your digestive system. And the name is escaping me right now, but it's amazing what happens like well, first of all, the minute you like have a fork full of food

coming towards your mouth and your senses and all the things going on inside your mouth like these senses and all the things going on inside your mouth like like these like trash cans of saliva that are going to grab whatever's bad and whatever's good and all your nutrients and all that stuff and yes it's it's like our bodies are fascinating they're fascinating um but anyway this book gives you like this whole like rundown start to finish on what happens when you're ingesting food and it's going through your digestive system and we're back and but but like um lost it found it um just just the way that we're made up anyway. Yeah, nature is bizarre.

It is. Our digestive systems are really strange. The idea that there's a bunch of bacteria living down there that gives us an appetite for certain foods. Oh, yeah. People that start eating healthy, they start craving healthy foods. They start craving salmon and shit.

Well, if you have candida, your sugar intake is through the roof. And a lot of people do. A lot of people do. But we're an ecosystem. Oh, yeah. That's the weirdest part about being a person that's never, I mean, very rarely discussed

that there's more bacteria living in your gut than have ever been people ever. There's a bunch of weird factors that attribute to your personality. Well, your gut health and your mental health are very related. They're directly related. Well, I think the problem is we look at it in terms of a bunch of different systems like working together. I think we should look at it as like one big system that has a bunch of different entities

to it. And if you had that, you'd be like, oh, I'm going to pour sand in the engine. Don't worry about it. It's fine. It's only pie. But that's what we're doing. It's only pie. It's only pie.

It's delicious. It's only pumpkin. I'm pouring delicious sand into the fucking gears. I got a bag. But that's what it's like. And we're like accustomed to doing it. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an option, but I'm saying that we need to be way more vocal about

what this is. I agree. Here's a question. You're a very healthy guy. You have your body down to a science, right? In a way? I have my body down to a pseudoscience. But you have the resources and you

exercise in a way that your body is very important to you. I work out a lot, yes. But on top of that, you also experience enlightenment in various forms of meditation or maybe psychedelics or whatever it is that works for you. it is that works for you. And my question to you is, do you feel a difference when you have achieved a level of, it's not even self-awareness, it's kind of like an overall, like maybe spiritual and physical and mental awareness where you introduce or reintroduce like a contaminant or sugar where you like feel it harder than you did maybe when you were a kid, right? I think you feel it harder when you were a kid, and I think you also feel it harder when you're more aware of how—

I don't think you feel it harder when you're a kid. When you're a kid, you're just like fucking cupcakes. No, no, no, no. You feel it harder as an adult than when you were a kid. Got it, got it, got it. That's what I meant. Like now as a 54-year-old, if I eat cupcakes— You're 54?

I'm 54. You look great. Thank you. My friends. Who's there? If I eat cupcakes today, I feel them very differently than if I ate cupcakes when I was 20. When I was 20, it was like thrown into a volcano. It would just burn off and that would be the end of it.

Just like a trash bag. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. But that's the case with all of us but there's also a thing where i think i'm more aware of how what i eat affects my body whereas back then i was just like i was just fucking bouncing in the walls of blinders on and i don't think i was necessarily that aware i think i was like more engine less traction. I was a lot of sliding into trees. Bang.

There was a lot of acceleration not under control. And I think that's the same with my diet. Because I think that when you're young and you eat three pizzas, you don't even think about it. You're like, bah. But then when you're tired, you don't put the two and two together. You don't go, oh my God, I feel like shit because I ate three pizzas. Right. You just feel like shit for whatever random reason. You don't go, oh my God, I feel like shit because I ate three pizzas.

You just feel like shit for whatever random reason. I can't wait to feel good again. And you just keep eating the same kind of food. But when you get older, you are more vulnerable to your choices. You feel your food choices differently. But also, you've had a conversation with your body for more years. So as the more years go on, the more you and your body have this understanding of the requirements. Like me and my body will have like little arguments.

Yeah. Like my body will talk to the brain and go, hey pussy, what are we doing? We need to do something. Like we're getting annoyed at people.

Yeah. It's time to go to the gym, fuck face. Yeah. And then my brain will be like, it's good to have rest and recovery. And then the body

will shut up, bitch. I think that's where that Sarno stuff comes in play for me not not in the overall view like explain that because we were talking about that before we started the podcast right um so Nick introduced me to the Dr. Sarno

methods and John Sarno yeah because I would get these repetitive it would start in my specifically right shoulder blade up my neck to the back of my skull. And I wouldn't be able to like turn my head and it would lock. And I would always attribute it to like, oh, I slept funny or like I've been playing music even if I weren't playing

music. And so I was married to this narrative that wasn't necessarily true. And it was mostly mental. wasn't necessarily true and it was mostly mental and and mind you like if i if i had an injury like that'd be one thing but this was that sarno you know ethos of like you have repressed emotions or you have something that you're not acknowledging like a psychosomatic thing exactly he calls it TMS. What does that stand for? It stands for tension mitosis syndrome. So what happens is your brain fires off your repressed emotions and it manifests in your body. And it's real pain. It's not made up. And so my muscles are deprived of, like your myofascia is deprived of oxygen, which creates this lock in your shoulder blade, which is where it would show up for me. How is your myofascia deprived of oxygen?

Because your brain is—it's your repressed emotions, and they're putting it somewhere. So it's like your brain makes the muscle contract or something? It's putting this anger or unresolved thing in your body. Right. And specifically what happens is your myofascia is deprived of oxygen, which then makes the muscle lock. Is this a theory of what the mechanism is, or has this actually been proven by studies? I think it's been proven by studies.

I mean, I've read his books and I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos, so I'm not an expert on it, But I can tell you for my life, when I recognized that my pain was potentially ostensibly emotional, I started like examining, well, like, what are you really feeling? And it's sort of meditative in that way. And I'll be honest, like when I've had moments of tension where I was having an argument or something or I was getting bad news in email and like I'd start to feel whatever I was like, maybe my stomach hurt. And I get I get a lot of stomach aches and that's definitely a manifestation of my emotions. Yeah. I would take a different approach rather than be like, oh, fuck, I got to get some Rolaids and I got to lay down lay down and i have this thing this this routine that i've had for a long time and i would approach it differently and i have been approaching it differently and it's it's really been interesting and mind you like we were talking about this earlier about like if you have actual pain from

residual whether it's you know you were talking about jujitsu and oxygen deprivation from like holds and things right um i could just speak for myself i'm not an expert but when i would entertain even the idea that you know suze this is i think you're mad about something else and you should sit with that. My shoulder would change. Like it wasn't like. Right, like so you were just like clenched up. Yeah. And I mean, the pain is real.

That's the thing. It's not, the pain is not an idea. Like you're actually having a thing that fucking sucks. And I think it's important also to say there's two different things. There's like someone who's been in a car accident and clearly has a fucked up back and that's causing them pain. And then someone where there's not, well, they can look at an MRI or an x-ray and they go, we don't know what's wrong, but you're in agony. Yes. But when you go back to like our caveman cells, like if you, we neglect to remember that our bodies are really incredible. They heal themselves.

Our bodies are really incredible. They heal themselves. And like a lot of our injuries are like residual, like pharmaceutical, like you have restless leg syndrome. So you have to take this. Like, you know, a lot of that stuff is really mental. Right. And like we, but we marry ourselves to this like, oh, yeah, that's right. I got a bad back or me. I have bad feet.

So I'm going to have this and this. So I'm going to have this and this. And so I would just like subscribe to this idea rather than give myself the opportunity to be a healthy living adult that has a lot of like, you know, I'm not broken. But I've thought that for a long time. I've thought like, oh, man, I got bad feet. So I'm going to have bad knees and a bad back. You always say like the bad feet thing. Like, have you ever looked at like foot strengthening exercises? Oh, yeah. No, I got bad feet, so I'm going to have bad knees and a bad back. But you always say like the bad feet thing. Like have you ever looked at like foot strengthening exercises? Oh yeah, no, I got yoga toes.

Do they help? Yeah, they do. They do, right? They help a lot and yoga helps a lot. Well, they really should. We're all supposed to have fingers or toes rather that splay out like fingers. Correct. Yeah.

So this is what I'm saying. Like this idea that like you can sort of reconnect with your natural physical being as opposed to like, you got this, you should take this medicine for this. And just thinking for a long time that you have an issue that you ostensibly don't have. Mind you, if you have an accident or something that might require more attention, that's different. or something that might require more attention that's different. But I've recognized recently that a lot of my shoulder and neck issues are specifically emotional. Well, I think there's a lot of people for sure that are experiencing that. There's a lot of people for sure that are experiencing a lot of tension, and especially now, like more than ever in our lives, right?

Like when have you ever been alive where people are this fucking tense no well i mean never what you were saying earlier about like our line of work in entertainment and like oh like we don't get to create if we're you know we get locked down of what we do but other people that like their jobs are their passion and and things that they love i mean locked out of that too. How about chefs? How about people that work in... A lot of people that worked in restaurants got fucked. Yeah.

I mean, it became a real goddamn shit show for those folks. And how about teachers who are terrified? Salud. Cheers. Salud. How about teachers that are terrified? The Lord's work. We're making it happen.

There's so many teachers out there that are terrified of their kids getting them sick and then they're dying. You know, like they're really worried. Like if you're a teacher and maybe you haven't been concentrating on your health and all sudden like going to school is not just you're going to take care of some kids and give them some ideas and help them to educate themselves and evolve their view of the world. Now you might die. Now you might die. Now your job is a new thing. Do you believe that?

100%. For some people, they definitely might die. It's just how many. What's the percentage? For sure. I know people that have gotten fucked up by COVID, and I know people that just breezed through it. And I know people that got fucked up by Delta.

And I know people that got this new one, Omicron, and it's been nothing for them. So fortunately, that's the way this is headed with this particular variant is that it's more contagious than ever, but it's less virulent. It's not rough on most people. And they've only recorded, they've recorded, I think, seven deaths or maybe nine deaths worldwide. Find out how many deaths worldwide have been from Omicron. But only one of them in the United States

and they kind of abandoned that. They had this idea that this guy was, they said he definitely tested positive when he died, but he had pre-existing conditions that they think may have been the cause of death whatever it is they don't but that's one only one person so who knows how many fucking hundreds of thousands if not millions of people have caught it over the last month or so it's been a viral

blizzard well a hurricane would they say blizzard blizzard you know i I got caught on to the Alex Berenson stuff in his research. And then I personally don't know anyone who died from COVID. But I know like people telling me they had family members. And so and I have so much respect for that. I have empathy, sympathy, all the things like I'm being I'm sensitive to that. I'm not going to tell you that I know any better. Sounds a little callous to me. Sounds a little mean.

But I. I always, when I hear but, I'm always like, well, here comes the hard stuff. But the thing that's confusing me now is like this Christmas season. So many people I know are like, oh, I couldn't go home because we tested positive even though so-and-so is asymptomatic. And like we tested positive, but thank God we were only sick for two days. Like it's, you know, I'm confused by there are not bodies like piling up in the street. Not with this new one. Well, we're really lucky.

This could be the end. This could be the end of the pandemic. I hope so. I hope so. But- It could be if it imparts real immunity to people that catch it, like that this immunity lasts for the next variant and the immunity that we used to have previously. It's not 100% guaranteed with this variant. People have been sick for COVID and Peter McCullough actually admitted this recently on Twitter. He said that the variant that we used to have, like the Delta, if you had had the Alpha, you were immune to the Delta.

But if you have had previous infection to COVID, you may not necessarily be immune to Omicron. So even if you're a person who survived COVID that before like a month ago they thought wasn't going to get COVID again you might get this one but you just said Omicron like one person is reported as yeah one but they don't even think that that's how he died anymore they kind of abandoned that idea they think he was already going to die but he tested

positive when he died but he was fucked no offense intended again like approaching sensitively to people that have had difficult times with this i i think the obsession with our okay uk says 14 deaths and 129 hospitalized by omicron well clearly they're run by dictators and they're lying to the people right but that's that's what i'm saying. I don't know. That sounds reasonable, though. I don't know.

How many people are in the UK? I don't know. All I do know is, like, I think it was 2016, I had the worst flu of my life. I don't remember a couple days. I was so fucking sick. Like, I literally couldn't speak. I missed out on shows,

and I don't remember, like, two whole days. And that was 2016, and I had the flu but back then like you just got better and I wasn't right for a couple months you know I was like a couple months really my like my strength back up like I was I was just sleeping so hard I was so tired all the time and then I got better and I can only speak for my my own life and my human experience. And like I said, I have so much respect for anyone who's had a really hard time with this, specifically death of loved ones or their own illness. I would like to have a conversation and understand what you've experienced. and understand what you've experienced. But I do believe that what's on the news is,

is so manipulative in terms of fear mongering and trying to get us to think something that may not be what it is. And I, I, I want to be a part of, of the, the solution and, and,

and positivity. But the way that things are being run is really fucking scary. Well, it's really scary in that- Because I don't know what's real. We're monitoring, we're making money off of what's killing people. Like whatever the numbers are. Like if you talk about the numbers, if the numbers are exaggerated, it's more beneficial to the person that's reporting the story because more people are going to read it.

If you say a thousand people died this week from COVID, way more people are going to read that than zero people died. So instead of saying this new variant seems to be like a cold, and if we take care of ourselves and if we look after our immune systems, we can get through this and also potentially gain herd immunity. Imagine if they just set that out there. Right. If they put it out there like, we're going to give you guys a little emotional and anxiety treat. We're going to tell you. We might be okay. Because this one variant that seems to be really prevalent and impossible to stop, like

even that crazy lady on CNN, that Asian lady that's always talking about doom and gloom, she's the end of times lady. You know that lady? You know that lady? She was like, cloth facial masks are no more than decorations. Cloth masks are facial decorations. She said it on CNN. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You heard that? Yeah, we played it the other day. Doom and gloom! She said cloth masks don't work. She was trying to scare people into wearing like fucking hazmat suits. But really what she made people realize like this whole year of wearing these masks. Of course, if air is getting in, what else? How much protection is it giving you?

But also you're ingesting your own. But is it giving you 10%? How much? What percent of protection is it giving you? Is it even giving you 10? I don't think so. It might be giving you something. It might be giving you? Is it even giving you 10? I don't think so. It might be giving you something. It might be giving you something, but what's the number?

I want to fucking study. Well, you know who to talk to. All the people that want to see you. The problem is all the people that I talk to say controversial things. I'm just a musician. I can only tell you that I keep getting denied access because you have to be vaccinated and show a negative test.

Like all that stuff makes no sense to me. Wow. How are you doing? We're in the middle of all kinds of weirdness, Suzanne. All kinds of weirdness. We're all trying to figure this out. But we have to have a commitment to like wanting friendship. A commitment

to wanting it to be worked out in a positive way. I do. I know you do. And I do too. I'm just a lover. And Jamie does too. Jamie's a little sketchy. Sometimes he gets antisocial. He plays video games. He's a golfer. Jamie, I would really like to hang out with you soon.

We should play golf with Jamie. We can watch the Browns break our hearts. Play golf with him. He's a fucking assassin. Jamie's going to be on the tour. I'm going to lose him to the tour. It's going to be an issue. Right?

It's possible, right? Yeah, he's a sicko. Look at him. He's a sicko. I'm looking for sponsors. Golf is a real problem. I'm looking for sponsors. Golf's a problem for this show. It's a sick game. It makes people. He's a sicko. Looking for sponsors. Golf is a real problem. Looking for sponsors. Golf's a problem for this show.

It's a sick game. It makes people sick people. Do you golf? No. I'm scared. I would like it. I'm sure I would love it. I see Jamie and fucking Hinchcliffe.

Their eyes light up. Ron White, his eyes light up when you talk about golf. Fitzsimmons, his eyes light up. They love golf. Fuck that game. Oh, weird. Something everybody likes. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Is it meditative for you? No. Definitely not. Are you competitive with it? Yeah. Okay. With myself. Super competitive.

How are you with putt putt? Listen to me. He has a computer set up in the back where he has a net that he drives into. Oh, shit. And the computer tracks the speed of his ball and how far it's going to go. Wow. Given the certain trajectory as it hits the net okay am I saying anything wrong simulation of golf look

at him he's a robot over there he's like that guy that winds up killing that dude in that for sure Jamie are we in the matrix why wouldn't I mean sure well here's the problem with that you You thought the movie was good, but Suzanne thought it sucked. So, like, what are we doing here? I don't like, I don't like hearing people's opinions on movies I want to see before I've seen them. Wait, you haven't seen it?

No, no, no, I have. Oh. But it goes in, I had already heard people saying it sucked before it came out. It fucks with your hair. And you're like, wait, why do you think it sucks? I didn't hear that. Did you like it to begin with? I went in a virgin. I had no, no. All right. So did you like the other Matrix movies?

I did. I loved them. I loved them. How many times did you see them? Which ones did you love? I can't say I've seen the third one enough. All right. So like,

did you play the Matrix video games? Do you, you know? Let me tell you something about the third one. But you have. Sure. If you saw the third one once, you saw it enough. The first one's the movie.

The problem with the matrix is like uh they get incrementally less dynamic or something like what is it what is it about the second one well the was it they they they're burdened down the fourth well this all of them are burdened down by the power of the first one so you have to follow all the narratives that were established in the first one. Well, the fourth one is the first one until a certain point where they like... But like anytime you make a sequel, it's always... But how's Avatar going to stand up? James Cameron's the baddest motherfucker that's ever done movies, son.

I know, but I mean... He's got his own Rolex. So if it does, like it's 10 years, you know, how long ago was that even? That was a long time ago. James Cameron has his own Rolex. It's Martin Scorsese has his own Rolex. James Cameron did Terminator 2 and that is way better than the first one. Cameron did Terminator 2?

Yeah. He's the baddest motherfucker that's ever done movies. He knows how to make movies. He knows how to make like, he took Alien and he said, I got an idea. How about they're easy to kill but they're infinite. They're everywhere. Right, right, right. Like he changed the movie. The first movie, like you can argue that the first movie was more terrifying because i think it was

because we had never seen anything like that before 1979 sigourney weaver it's one of the best movies in terms of like inclusiveness she's wonderful the heroine the females the the hero of an action science fiction horror movie. She's the hero. She kills the monster. It's the first of its kind ever. And it's so good, no one notices. What do you mean? No one notices that a woman was the hero.

It's just so good. No, no, no. I'm not saying they don't notice it was Sigourney Weaver. I'm saying it doesn't become a narrative. The narrative is this movie is fucking awesome. Sigourney Weaver. I'm saying it doesn't become a narrative. The narrative is this movie is fucking awesome. Sigourney Weaver is fucking awesome. It's never a woman finally gets a role at the number one role in a monster movie. Right, right, right.

She saves the earth from the evil fucking. Right, right. The peripheral shit. No one cares. They just care. Sigourney Weaver's awesome. The movie's awesome. And it was so goddamn terrifying.

Yeah. And then James Cameron comes along and he says, okay, that first one was really hard to kill, but the ones that I'm putting in this movie are retarded and they just kind of run right into your guns and they're everywhere and they're just shooting them down. They're just gunning them down. Is that Alien 2? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. But it's a totally different kind of movie. Right. That's a ballsy move. Yeah. The aliens are easy totally different kind of movie. That's a ballsy move. Yeah. The aliens are easy to kill in that movie. There's so many of them. They're gunning them down.

I got to work with Sigourney Weaver once, back when I was an actor. She's great. Did you get a girl crush? I did. And she wrote me a letter. I got it in the mail from her Cartier, you know, what do you call it? Oh my God. I've had some Buffalo trays.

Jamie's fancy. He knows about Cartier. She just wrote me a really nice letter about enjoying working with me. And I still have it. Is that the word you're looking for? Stationary. Stationary. Thank you.

I could not think of stationary. This is bad. I was like, what is What is it? Stationary. Stationary. Thank you. I could not think of stationary. Cartier. This is bad. I was like, what is she trying to say? Cartier stationary. Thank you, Jamie. Boy, am I embarrassing myself. But she was amazing. She was lovely.

Yeah, she's a beast. Yeah. Like, that lady's been in some fucking ferocious movies. Especially those alien movies. She's a very present, nice person. Like, she wasn't acting like a big dog. She was working, and it was very cool. That's very nice. She was also an avatar,

right? I was going to say also an avatar. Also an avatar. Big time scientist. They're working on multiple avatars simultaneously because I think they take so long to do that it's probably better to just keep the people there and keep them working. Do you remember the first one? How yeah groundbreaking it was did you ever see that

i did you know it's funny we were talking about 3d the other day and i forgot about avatar 3d because that's one of the that's what it was right yeah yeah it was yeah well that was the way to see it i mean you could see it in the regular theater but theater theater. I think that concept. They sold 3D TVs because people were going to be watching Avatar at home. You're right. You can't watch this without it. Yeah, I remember we went to Best Buy. We were trying to get TVs for the studio.

We went to Best Buy looking at TVs, and they had a 3D TV. I was like, oh, what is this? And it was weird. Did you get the glasses? It's kind of 3D. Did you need glasses for those 3D TVs? Yeah, of course. It was kind of glasses. You know what Samsung has now?

I was just at the Verizon store the other day. A 3D cell phone? Oh my God. They have this fucking thing where you put glasses on. Are you serious? Yeah, you put goggles. They're like glasses. They look like a pair of Roka sunglasses.

You put glasses on and inside the glasses, it's like a screen. You're watching like a screen you're watching a like a giant movie screen so if say if you want to watch Netflix on a Samsung phone you put these fucking glass like if you're on a plane say if you're on a plane you're flying back to Cleveland you put a fucking prepare these glasses on you watch Netflix on your phone like maybe a movie downloaded already it's inside the fucking screen like you are watching a giant movie screen

it's crazy it's high resolution it's beautiful have you seen it? have you done it? I put it on the Verizon store it's a lot like that but it's real clear

you're wearing something like you can see down low I can't keep up man it's just glasses like it doesn't like cover your face totally like it's a vacuum seal so like you can see like if you look down you see your shirt but the thing is like Keep up, man. It's just glasses. It doesn't cover your face totally. It's a vacuum seal.

So you can see, if you look down, you see your shirt. But the thing is, when you're watching the screen, they had a documentary, a nature documentary. When you watch these animals moving around, you're like, whoa. Because it's like 4K quality, but it's enormous, and it's on glasses. And you're like, holy shit. It's, man, there's this part of me that's excited about that stuff. I'm like, wow. And then there's this part of me that's fucking freaked out and scared.

You should be freaked out. It freaked me out. Because it really tampers with your psychology. That's it. What that guy's wearing right there is it. So what he's doing is he's wearing glasses just like standard sunglasses like they kind of have in my truck. But in those glasses

there's something that projects a screen that literally looks like a hundred inch perfect 4K screen. The quality is spectacular. So like what you're seeing when you have those glasses on is amazing. But this is one seeing when you have those glasses on is amazing.

But this is one of those things that Apple doesn't have yet. I don't think it works on an Apple, does it? So these are for Samsung. There's been a strong rumor Apple's releasing something this year for the phone. That's how it always is, right? Apple waits a little longer and they make one that won't crash. They don't like to be the first. You know what I'm interested in, though?

I'm interested in, though? I'm interested in yeah, that's cool. That's amazing. Oculus. You're in this three-dimensional... You're experiencing an alternate reality in a lot of ways. But I like the things that stand the test of time, like Lethal Weapon.

You know? Where I'm still entertained and their effects or whatever they have going in their like level of of technology is still it still has me grabbed. Yeah. You know, like this stuff is you're just inundated with something new so frequently, you know, like remember when the the iPod came out before the iPhone. With the wheel? Yeah, with the wheel. Like it was so it was like the one thing, right?

But now there's like 12, 20. Yeah. And I acknowledge it. I respect it even. But to my human experience, it's a fucking lot. It's a lot to every people that are really really adept to technology and i and that's great like but like i i mean i just want to take a walk in the woods and not get a uh lyme disease tick well you know cat williams had this line once

cat williams had this line was talking about well, they trick you that there's 24 hours in a day. And he's like, there ain't 24 hours in a day. He goes, it gets dark out like 12 hours in. And that's how they tricked you into giving up eight of your hours of the day to working. And it's a really interesting, when you think about it that way, you're like, oh. So you think about technology or anything else, and you realize you only have so many hours of the day to think about things so if you're thinking about technology or you're thinking about whatever you're thinking about anxiety you're thinking worried about asteroids whatever it is that it might funny you should mention it takes away from the time you're thinking about other stuff

it just does yes it doesn't mean that you should just like think about nothing other than what pleases you and allow the world to go to shit around you. It doesn't mean that. But it also means like there's a balance to be had. Correct. And if you're spending too much time thinking about things that freak you out or anger you or frustrate you or you disagree with or people that are pieces of shit. Cunts. Yeah. Fuck cunts.

It's like that's bad for all of us. And we need to know this. We need to talk about this, and we need to stop being angry, which is only going to keep them in that same cycle of behavior. Just let everybody look. Okay, let's relax. Let's all relax. If we all, like legitimately, I know this would never happen, but if we all shared resources, if like we said, hey, there's only a certain amount of natural resources on the planet

Earth, a certain amount of people, There's too many people living in poverty. We're going to distribute this stuff fairly evenly across the world. We're not saying that you don't make more money if you work harder and you establish a business. You figure something out and you innovate. We're not saying that. What we're saying is natural resources like oil and shit and all that stuff. We're going to just distribute that evenly. Can we agree to disagree that all our problems we have with religion and

socioeconomic policies, all these different things, at the very least, we all have the earth. No, the fucking earth. No one should own the blood of the earth. What's oil? It's the blood of the earth. They're sucking blood out of our mothership. And we are like, listen,

it all happens to be in Oklahoma, and you gotta poison the well to get it. Whether it's fracking or anything else, that should be everybody's. I was in Oklahoma once when there was an earthquake, and I was so confused. I woke up. I remember being all excited because this was years ago, and I just watched Game of Thrones, a really disturbing episode. Which one? The Red Wedding? It was the red wedding it was funny like straight up it was the red wedding and i was terrible and i was all fucked up about it and then i woke up to a violent earthquake

and it was really scary and you know i lived in california for almost 20 years and i i went downstairs and i asked the the um you know the front desk I was like do you guys get a lot of earthquakes here or something and they were like no because it's because of the fracking that's the thing yeah it was really scary that's real they're literally drilling holes tampering under the earth

they've caused a shit ton of earthquakes with fracking I was in this historical hotel and they were like, yeah, things are getting weird. But we're selling oil to Russia. Everything's great. I don't know if we're selling oil to Russia. Who are we selling oil to? We're selling oil to people,

right? I think we're going to really see some shit in this life. We've seen a lot thus far, but I don't know, man. Yeah. Like, it's weird.

You know, you want to be informed, right? You want to know. Top five sources. But then once you know, you can't unknow. We import it from them on there, sir. Oh, we import from them? That's what it says. Oh, top five source countries of U.S. gross petroleum imports.

Interesting. But I asked who we sell it to in my question. And it says we sell it to Mexico, Russia. But that's not going to be on the internet, you guys. Oh, they sell it to us? That's why, I mean. Don't you think that this is not public knowledge? Yeah, it has to be almost.

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I try not to be. I think this country needs a president that gets to be president for like 50 years. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. I think after four years you're like barely getting your feet wet and they yank out of office and go, fuck you.

You hate immigrants. And they shove some new person in and this new person doesn't know what the fuck they're doing. It takes them like a year and a half before they figure it out. How is that any different from what's happening now? Right, it isn't any different. But the thing is like, here's the thing. It's not good if someone's corrupt. It's not good if someone's a criminal.

It's not good if someone's violent. We all agree to that. But it's also not good if you don't know how to do the job and it's the most important job in the world and a new person comes in every four years. I mean, both those things are terrible. Right?

It's corrupt at the ground level because in order to run for Congress, it's up. True story. It's upward from like $30,000 to $50,000 a day to run. Really? So you can't be like. $50,000 a day? You can't be an over. I mean, and no one's called that corruption.

No one has said, oh, well, you have to have a major machine behind you in order to run for Congress. That's always been the case, right? But is that the case currently? That is legal. But what if someone had a really strong social media presence? That's never happened. But what if that did happen?

What if someone who was already a big social media person... I prefer like an overqualified intellectual who has... How about a suicide bomber? Oh my God. Oh Jesus Christ. No, no. I think an overqualified intellectual too, but the problem with overqualified intellectuals is oftentimes they've spent a large portion of their life in academia.

So they've gone from being in school to graduate school to eventually teaching to like they're a part of this system. And although that's amazing that they can do that, and it's in the best case scenario, it allows them to be professional intellectuals and to dissect ideas at the highest level in ways that people like you or I or many other people probably wouldn't have access to the the right resources or sharp minds to to put this into order and and and then when they do put into order and they publish something the rest of the world gets to examine it and and and see their brilliant thoughts their their professional academics like They're professional academics. You're a professional singer and I'm a professional shit talker.

There's some people that are really good at being professional provokers. You always do that. You bring yourself. You're like, I'm a monkey. They can't do it. It's not. They can't do it. Joe, you're very, very intelligent.

I'm dumb as fuck. You got to trust me. No, you're not. I have a really good memory. That's the difference. Trust me. Listen, I'm friends with Elon. I'm dumb as fuck. You gotta trust me. No, you're not. I have a really good memory. That's the difference. Trust me. Listen, I'm friends with Elon. I'm dumb as fuck.

Trust me. Well, that's- Trust me. It's like when people say they're a tough guy. I'm like, bitch, I know Kamaru Usman. You're comparing like- You're not a tough guy. A mountain to like-

Just shut the fuck up. I know Cowboy Cerrone. You're not a tough guy. There's a lot of people that think they're tough guys. I'm like, I know real tough guys, and they're terrifying. I'm friends with Joe Schilling. I'm friends with like real terrifying human beings that like make a living out of throwing their bones at other people trying to knock them unconscious. So there's levels to things. Like if people say, am I a tough guy? I'm like, compared to who? Compared to who? Compared to some fat guy who never works out? Fuck that dude up. But regular tough guys, no. No, you got to know where you stand.

And that's the same place with- Well, the definition of tough guy is fleeting. But it is the same thing with intelligence. Like when people say you're intelligent. No, you just have access to a lot of data. But the lot of data that I have access to, other people have introduced me to. It's like I'm not figuring out data on my own. There's some brilliant people out there.

Correct. They're legitimately, shockingly smart. But you got to be like aware of where you are in this. When I'm in, I'm like a fucking net for like really smart people. Get in here. Tell me what you know. I'm like, I throw that Wonder Woman lasso on them.

Remember the lasso of truth? I do. That's the move. I do. Yeah. But I'm not that smart. I'm a regular smart. Like these people are like preposterously.

As your friend. Because you're my friend. I appreciate you very much. But you got to listen to me. Girl. I'm telling you the truth. I'm not lying. There's like levels to this shit.

I understand. It helps everybody if you know where you are. And one of the worst things is when you're around someone who doesn't know where they are. They think they're way better than they are. They think they're a way better singer or a way better comic or a way better podcaster. Why don't I get the fucking attention I deserve? There's always a lot of people that have these thoughts in their head. And some of them, they just are ready to pop and the world doesn't know yet and they're

kind of frustrated and then poof. And then they break through and then all of a sudden it becomes a thing. Like, did you listen to the podcast I had with Jewel? No, but I want to. It's incredible. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. It's incredible.

She's amazing. Yeah, I heard that. But her story is she's homeless. Yeah. She's homeless at 18. Okay. She's singing in a fucking coffee shop. She talks, the owner of the coffee shop was about to go under.

And she says, listen, would it be okay if maybe I do this thing and I'll put out flyers and people come to hear me sing? In Alaska? No, this was in San Diego. Okay. So she does this, becomes like one of the biggest music stars on planet earth. Isn't she from Alaska? Am I wrong there? Yes. Yes. Okay. So she does this, becomes like one of the biggest music stars on planet Earth.

Isn't she from Alaska? Am I wrong there? Yes, yes, originally. Homeless at 18, moves away from her parents at 15. It's a crazy story. And she's one of those people

like yourself that's gone through some shit. And I don't want that for my kids. But I love the way you turned out. I love the way she turned out it's like i'm so torn it's like i don't want them to experience great pain right but but it seems to

be to me whether it's joey diaz or you or many of my friends eddie bravo or you know ari shafir all my friends that i love the most dearly, Duncan Trussell, they all came from some crazy, fucked up childhood where it produced this amazing, eccentric person. And they're so unique and special because they made it up that fish ladder. That fucking, they passed the grizzly bear's snapping mouth. Woo! And they got into the river and they swam uphill. And they made it. We're all they swam uphill and they made it. We're all just a bunch of salmon.

We are. We are. In some fucking weird way, we are all just a bunch of salmon. You're not wrong. I mean, it's going to sound super weird, but like since I met you, I felt spiritually connected to you. Yeah. We're friends forever.

Yeah. You and I, whether it's uh we we were brothers and sisters in a past life or something there's something whether that's bullshit or whether it's true the moment i met you and i feel the same way about about ben like the moment i met you guys i was like i'm connected to you guys i don't know why this is immediately connected it's mutual it's like there's people in this life that you meet like that and there's people in this life where you have to like earn their their friendship and you have to earn their the connection with them and that requires like

more than a few hangouts like you have to hang out with them for like months and months like there's there's friends like that where i like the first time i met them that were like kind of peripheral friends and i had to like crack through the ice and then you get closer to each other and you realize we're all very, very similar, but maybe this person has been famous longer and is a little more jaded to people annoying them and sucking up and stealing their time, which happens to some of these, especially rock stars.

Rock stars are the most inundated. Everybody's coming at them. Well, it's a real-time experience. It's not like you had a show or a movie or something, and then you get the ricochet after that. It's like music is right there. Right there. Real-time. Did you see The Stones when they were in town? No, I didn't.

I was out of town. I was on the road. I don't believe they're quitting. I think that's nonsense. I think Mick Jagger's going to ride that fucking bitch until the wheels fall off. But I saw him down at the COTA, the Circuit of the Americas, which is amazing. If you've never been to that place. I haven't.

It's so crazy. The people that own it are like the nicest people in the world. Wait, I feel like I saw your videos. Yeah, I put some pictures up of it. When was this? This was, was it November, Jamie? What was it? Right before Thanksgiving.

Okay, okay. It was like a drug. It was like watching the Rolling Stones on stage. It was like, I can't believe, I can't even imagine that's really Mick Jagger. Yeah. It was freaking me out. That's wonderful. He was right there.

Yeah, it's wonderful. And it was like 50,000 fucking people plus.'s great and that motherfucker can still do it yeah yeah when they sang gimme shelter i was like holy fuck i love that holy fuck like all your your goosebumps have goosebumps and you're like your whole body's like i can't believe i'm really here yeah i mean that that's like our life force, you know? Like that's that real time experience. And I feel like that's what I've been talking about this whole time. Like that's all I want.

Like you can't take any of this shit with you, right? Right. And while I'm here and it feels like as the world gets crazier, my world gets smaller. So my juice, my life force is the simplest shit. And it's art, it's love, it's quality time. And the minute I pick up my phone, I lose all that stuff. And obviously I need to figure out how to get here to your podcast location like I need my

direction but at the same time where we're at in whatever barometer of our life is you know your experience and I think Jess was there with you right like you were there together at the Stones like you had this thing that was

like I'm sure you could feel it in every cell of your body. Yeah, Tony Hinchcliffe and his girlfriend were there too. Yeah. It's one of those things where you see it where you feel like energy in the air. Transformed. But you can't write it down. No. You can't say, oh, I had 184 picograms of like rock and roll energy injected into my veins.

And, you know, Gary does this thing during his shows and I love him for this and it's so special and I know a lot of, like your shows, you lock up your phones before you get in so you could just be there and also people don't

fuck with your shit but like, be there. Be there. That's it. Yeah, exist in the moment. Have a good time.

Just have some fun. Like, and I'm guilty of this too. Like that minute, like you're like, this is fucking awesome and then you pick it up and you're like but you're missing something you know and that you are but you're also like you know you're just trying to figure it out like everybody's trying to figure out what the fuck these goddamn phones are because they're not just phones no

there are portals to the rest of the world they sure are yeah and you always want to check in phones no there are portals to the rest of the world they sure are yeah and you always want to check in uh bill burr was on pat mcafee show have you seen that it was on uh my friend uh crystal and saga they have the show breaking points and uh they had uh oh yeah segment of bill burr talking about he doesn't pay attention to anything he doesn't doesn't listen to the news he's like if you listen to fox news or cn they're all fucking just trying to get you angry and i don't listen to any of it and he goes and every now and then sometimes like someone will say a joke and everybody laughs he goes i don't even get the joke because he's like he's so not tuned into the nonsense that he's like complete but he's doing some of the happy i don't it's i mean you don't you don't want him totally happy you want Bill Burr

25% annoyed you want him mostly happy but 25% pissed off so that he could keep making great comedy I think I met him that one time when we were at the Wiltern like a long time ago yeah yeah he came backstage that's the 2012 show

he's a sweetheart Joe that's 10 years ago that was December 21ste that's 10 years ago dude i know it's fucked up that was december 21st 2012 yeah that was 11 years ago that was the end of the mayan calendar that was um there was a a thing called the long count in the mayan calendar now looking back they might have been right they just might have been off by a few years. And like, I mean, they thought that something was going to change, whether it was like some sort of procession of the equinox changes or a change in where the constellations are in the sky, whatever it was.

They thought something was changing in the calendar. They had this like very long calendar. And the end of the long count was December 21, 2012. And when the world didn't end everybody was like oh we're gonna be fine but it might have it might have like started a process I think something ended in 2008 but

it's not that long ago 2012 was not that long ago no there it is Stan Hope honey honey Joey Diaz too Joey Diaz is there too on the left hand side is Joey Diaz yeah is it the one on the right thehand side is Joey Diaz. Yeah. That was fun. The one on the right? The one on the right, Jamie?

I think that's the whole. Oh, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was Joey Diaz, Doug Stanhope, you guys. Eddie Bravo was backstage too. Yep, Eddie Bravo was there. And we were all like, when we booked it, I remember we booked it like a year in advance.

We were like, this is supposed to be the end of the world. Let's do an end of the world show. Thank you, man. Thanks. Thanks for bringing us along. Oh, my pleasure.

It's been really fun. I don't, I don't know what's coming, but it's so different now. You know, there's so much to, to process, but there is,

but like, I feel like there's also this work really unique time where we all can like kind of like join together and help each other especially as artists um and i feel a giant responsibility to do that like as a podcast host it's like to have people on that i love have people on that are funny or talented or whatever and like everybody know this is what I like. I like this. Well, you know, Nick said to me once, he said, you know, you can have armies and things, but like nothing kicks the door or wall down like art. Yeah.

And it's true. It's true. You know, and he would know. I mean, he's a mastermind and there's something happening to all of us. mastermind and there's something happening to all of us and whether we are deep in it or we want to admit it whatever it is like there's a reckoning happening and um and i'm not i'm not like a doomsday person i'm not dark i'm i'm genuinely light by nature but i can't deny this hovering feeling and i i agree with you i think the art is is important it's a saving grace and it connects all of us and like i said earlier maybe a couple hours ago that when i came here to see you and dave I mean it yeah you decided to move here it changed but it changed

me like I I was I you you like you grabbed my soul and reminded me of something that is very important we're supposed to be alive exactly we're supposed to be having fun we're supposed to have an experience yes and not and not deny it and and you know i realize that's very complicated but like you woke me up it's very complicated it is very complicated but at the end of the day we we have to look at like so many factors but then take into account like what is our end goal what's our end goal what's your end goal as a person your end goal as a person should be have better times with the people around you whether they like you more you like them more you have good friends you trust and love and you want to see them succeed you want to see people inspire you you want to see new art that changes the way you think about a particular genre or a particular

style or whatever it is like all that stuff like is exciting it makes you feel better you want to do more you want to feel more we've lost something we've lost our values like we're at a surface level i don't think we've lost it we're just we're just battling this is what's going on and this is what has to go on there's no meaning without some kind of struggle and there's some kind of struggle that's happening right now that's very unique yeah well that's kind of it people feel like they were just here just like you have to the human experiences you have to struggle but I don't agree with that but I also understand it but the thing is like our the warp speed that our brains are integrating is like we don't have the value of time and the depth.

We're at this point where our greatest joy is a TikTok video or some shit that didn't take much time. It didn't take much effort. It didn't take integrity. And I mean that. Sorry if that's going to piss you off. But learn something. Learn a language. What about all the songs that were written in five minutes, though?

And people didn't try that hard. Well, those people. I just stumbled across it. I mean, those are some of the best hits of all time have been written in five minutes. Sons of bitches. Those songs that were written in five minutes were a byproduct of songs that were, like, your efforts as a songwriter for the whole essence of your being. I just meant it in a TikTok thing.

There's a guy I don't know enough about TikTok. There's a guy on Lex Friedman's show. I love Lex Friedman. I love Lex Friedman too. I had dinner with him and Eric Weinstein. I love both of them. He's great. They're both great. There's a guy named Peter Wang

who is on Lex Friedman's podcast this week. And there's some clips on Lex Clips. And one of them I sent to Lex. I said, this is brilliant. And this is this guy, Peter Wang. And he's saying, life without struggle is meaningless. And he's basically essentially saying everything that David Goggins has said, that Cameron Haynes has said, that Laird Hamilton has said, that I've said, that a lot of people have said. There's something about trying to achieve something that's intensely difficult gives you some sort of sense of purpose. It's not necessarily all of life, but what it is,

is a path to understand yourself so that you can more honestly assess what life is. I think people have a really hard time assessing what life is if the path that they're on is either too easy or is filled with falsehoods. If it's full of bullshit. That's one of the reasons why people in Hollywood are so spiritually starving. Right. Because the whole sport of being an actor is being a bullshit artist. Right. You literally have to be the best faker.

They all kind of hitch their wagon to the thing. Of course. actor is being a bullshit artist right you literally have to be the best faker they all kind of like hitch their wagon to the like the of course the thing of like and i don't want to speak negatively what culture yeah well i was going to talk about ayahuasca of like that's your shortcut like you know yeah but that works and like and and like p.s i'm a big advocate of psychedelic healing but at the same time i think we're all looking for something whether you're in hollywood or you're in in you know louisiana south louisiana trying to get a job like we all are here alive trying to figure this fucking shit out yeah but that's the thing we're all trying to figure this fucking shit out all of us and we have to be

charitable we gotta be nice to each other agreed that's that's like what a lot of is missing from today's chaotic discourse we're like cats on a hot tin roof fucking we just our fucking feet are hot and we're freaking out the full circle of like full circle of like, let's sort it out. Like, why can't we just talk? Why can't we just say, hey, I like you. I disagree with you, but I still really like you. We can do that. The problem is face-to-face, person-to-person, we can do that.

But then that person will check in on Twitter and Twitter will let everybody know that you're a piece of shit and probably an anti-vaxxer. And everybody will go fucking angry. Someone recently called me a white supremacist. And I was like, what? I couldn't believe it. That is a sign of like they just want to shut down all discourse. Well, there's like a bad card to pull. And it's, you know, like, let's just listen. So the problem with that card is if you pull it on people who aren't white supremacists,

then they don't believe that there really are white supremacists. And then when a real white supremacist comes along, it's a lot like crying wolf. Like all of a sudden that's a real wolf. You're like, fuck. Sure. Nobody wants to listen to me now. But now you're in front of a real KKK member that really thinks that they're the master race versus, like, someone who thinks that white're the master race versus like someone who thinks

that white girls should be allowed to wear hoops. What are you saying? What are you saying Joe? People were giving girls a hard time for wearing hoops if they're white girls. It's crazy. But it's like that is not that's nonsense. Do you eat pizza?

Then shut the fuck up. Do you use a cell phone made in China? Let's all shut the fuck up do you use a cell phone made in china let's all shut the fuck up come on this is nonsense what we should be attacking is actual racism not like something that's like fake racism like there are people that really do not like people that are uighur muslims right that's real there's real people who really do not like people who are pakistani because they're from ind. There's people that really do think- Oh, I know. Yeah, there's like a lot of crazy, real separation between human beings that's completely unnecessary. Correct.

That disregards the individual. Correct. And anybody that wants to lump people into these dumbass categories and then point at someone and say, you are a white supremacist like you what you are doing is ruining the term you're fucking up the term and it literally like allows holes in the gates where real white supremacists can sneak through because you've made it meaningless correct you've fucked up the whole term cunts fucking cunts. Right? Yeah, it's pretty convoluted. Man.

Should you play one more song and we'll wrap this bitch up? Oh, shit. Okay. No, you don't have to. No, I will. Just FYI. There's no need to. What are we, in a half a bottle?

At least. Okay. We're pretty fucked up. You don't have to. No, I want to. Do you want to play something new or old? Do you have a preference? I don't. I feel like I should request something though.

Oh shit. Well, let me see if I can do it. What could be requested from like albums could you do with one person, just you? Okay, because I'm pretty drunk. Yes. I'm going to play... Let's get wrecked. Oh, no.

God, God, no. But I'll remember that for next time. Like, that would be an egregious embarrassment. Okay. What would work? I'll listen to anything. Okay, I'm going to play a new one. Okay, perfect.

Because I don't drink that much anymore. I'm fucking drunk. And I love this. So are you more tuned in to the new ones because you've been practicing them and performing them? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could play a Christmas song, but that's not going to work because Christmas is over. But for real, sometime in the future, you and Gary have to record Midnight Rider.

Okay, deal. It's one of my favorite times ever singing. If you pay for it, we'll do it. 100%. I will. I will do it. I've been thinking about doing something like that. While we're having this podcast, and I'm a little bit drunk and a little bit high, but

I've been thinking, why don't I have some sort of promotions group? Like JRE promotions. Bring it. You know what I'm saying? Joe, it is time. It's been time for years. I've been thinking about doing something like thate it is time it's been time i'm thinking about doing something like that like just openly doing it but doing it completely uh like uh like we're

just like a charitable thing like i'm not just promote everybody you are the renaissance of texas and a lot of places and i I think that I support that. I think it can happen. We should do it. Okay. Would you, if I was going to have a request, I would say, would you play What You're Going to Do Now? Can you do that? Sure.

Okay. I'll try not to mess it up. Don't. You're not going to mess it up. Listen, even if you mess it up, it's real. It's live. It's an amazing song. album is on i think this is on three okay Oh baby, that fire's coming down Right into your walls, right out of your mouth

And everything you love just dash on the ground Oh babe, so what you gonna do now? So you run to the river, you run to the sea Oh, babe, so whatcha gonna do now? So you run to the river, you run to the sea You sift through the rubble and search the debris But you won't find anything if you don't find peace Oh, babe, so what you gonna do now? Don't wait until you die. Cause you can always change your mind and make it right.

So why are you still waiting outside maybe your mama didn't treat you right maybe you just didn't treat you right Maybe you just didn't sleep last night You know I don't give a damn why you wanna fight Oh babe

so what you gonna do now Don't wait until you die You can always change your mind and make it right So why are you still waiting outside? This is for you. So come out from the weeds and into my arms Oh, babe, I know the dark and how it can harm you

Yeah, and I've had my conscience rip me apart too So here's what we're gonna do now take all your needs and all your sins and all the losses you threw to the wind and we'll carry the weight if it breaks every limb And that's what we're gonna do now Don't wait until you die Cause you can always change your mind and make it right. So why are you still waiting outside?

You're still waiting outside. You're still waiting outside. Oh, man. Suzanne! Fuck yeah! That's a half bottle of Buffalo Drinks for you. That was amazing. That was amazing.

God damn it, that was good. That's very generous of you, Jill. No, no, no, no, no, no. You just fucking nailed it. You just punched a hole into the next dimension. Oh, boy. You nailed it. That's very nice of you.

Holy shit. Thank you. Come on, Jamie, right? No. Jamie's a robot. No. hole into the next dimension oh boy you nailed it that's very nice holy shit thank you come on jamie right no james is a robot no james was like i never play drunk that's the truth that was awesome i never play drunk i'm still sober that was awesome um we're almost at 2022 everybody's listening to this it'll be real close to that when this comes out by the time you finish it it'll probably be 2022 because this bitch is long as fuck

yeah it is it is Jamie I appreciate the fuck out of you thanks Jamie you're the greatest of all time you're a champ he's the greatest there is no greater

if it comes to like podcast producers that's the goat oh I know a true Capricorn right number one we got two goats in one room but he's the goat

two goats in one room that's 100% the goat but it's true there's not a producer that can fuck with jamie vernon um i appreciate you very much you're awesome that was amazing that was so good buddy i love you too that was so good that was so good i needed to see that i needed to hear that let me everybody see that when i'm in full form no no no that was as good as it could ever be suzanne i'm telling you you're gonna watch to watch that and you go, God damn, I nailed that shit.

Probably not. No, no. Jamie, she nailed it, right? That was great. Suzanne, it was amazing. It was amazing. I've seen you perform what, a hundred times?

Thanks, Joe. That was on the money. On the money. All right. Very sweet. Love to everybody. We're going to get through this, bitches.

Bye. Bye. Bye!