The Joe Rogan Experience - #1771 - Andy Stumpf

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

Andy Stumpf is a retired Navy SEAL, record-setting wingsuit pilot, BASE jumper, public speaker, and host of the popular podcast "Cleared Hot."

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. We were just talking before we started rolling about Mike Glover, who's a guy online who He's also real life. He is a real life person too. He's not just an animated character. I've met him. He gets a lot life person too. He's not just an animated character. I've met him. He gets a lot of censorship, right?

Don't they censor the shit out of him? Don't they shadow ban him and fuck with his posts? He teaches preparedness, right? Yeah, so he owns Fieldcraft Survival, which I would describe as preparedness, not to be confused with- Preppers. Which I don't think has to be a pejorative term there's a fine line okay yeah it's a lot of the end of the world people right it's a lot of if you're bearing

a school bus in your backyard and you have like fields of fire and fucking bazookas hidden everywhere it's you've taken it too far having a medical kit in your car and some first aid training, like, hey, I can stop bleeding until a higher level of care arrives. I think that's great. So that's preparedness. But Mike owns Fieldcraft Survival. He talks about getting censored. A lot of people talk about getting censored and shadow banned.

I can't make heads or tails as to whether or not that is how true it is. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. Some people's stuff is fucking boring. So the engagement should be lower. That's so true. But everybody wants to think they're so important. They're put on a list.

Have you ever seen somebody complaining about being shadow band and they have under a hundred followers? Cause I have. Oh really? Fucking glorious. I'm being shadow band. I only's fucking glorious. I'm being shadow banned. I only have seven likes. I'm like, that's actually a 7% engagement.

It's pretty good, dude. I do think it's highly likely that they take people and put them on certain lists, though, where you don't get distributed as widely. But I think what it is, it's like if they feel like you have controversial content, they don't want to put you in that search function area. Like say Instagram, for instance. You know, like if you go to the search area of Instagram, you'll discover a bunch of new people and new pages. I don't think I'm ever in that.

You know, I think I talk too much shit and I swear and I show animals getting eaten. Yeah, the good stuff. That's the stuff that I'm at Instagram for. It's like nature is metal. That's a good page. That's a great page. It's getting fucked up. It's a great page.

But you're never going to find that in the search. You have to completely spell it out, don't you? Yeah, you got to go looking for nature is metal. That's one of my go-to everyday pages. I go straight there. See what's the new horrific example of survival of the fittest. I'm actually currently very deep into watching people eat shit on mountain bikes. Oh.

It's one of my absolute favorites. Those poor kids that do the flips and then land poorly. It's not even that. We're talking full just heroic charges down these hills. They're just cambered out, and then the bike is going over. The last thing you see is the body folding in half on a tree and the bike coming after. It's awesome. It's taken me a long time to curate my feed to show me mostly these things.

It's work. It knows Andy likes violence. I don't know if that's violence. That's just... Just chaos? Human beings exploring their flexibility. It's, uh, what's... I was searching for mountain bike.

Oh, yeah. So good. We're out there. I'm sure there's a lot of good ones out there. Here's the thing, though, about guys like Mike. I think... Here we go. Oh, yeah.

Oh! Kid. Oh, and he's tied up in the bike. Oh, I saw a bad one the other day with a skateboard. I think we played it on the podcast, right? Where the dude wiped out and he wiped out on a skateboard and hit some sort of a signpost and it ripped his leg in half. And the bones of his leg were poking out of his shin. And it's like, ugh.

So here's a question for you. If Mike's on that list Who does who decides who gets to go on the that's the thing I think You know if you ever pay attention up and in that project veritas stuff where they've done Undercover camera work with people that work on social media, and they talk openly There's a project veritas has quite a few of these undercover There's a project Veritas has quite a few of these undercover expose interviews where they'll have like a reporter who is pretending they're on a date with a guy. And then the guy will explain like what they do in terms of how they shadow ban people, how they keep people's pages from showing up and how they keep their engagement low. from showing up and how they keep their engagement low so it is a thing whether it's a thing on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter which one does it the most and

how they do it I don't know but it is a thing and they do it with primarily with conservative pages they do it they do it if they think that I think they probably ramp it up around the time where elections come around because they want to make sure that, you know, these people don't have as much. If you think about engagement, if you have a page and your page is a let's say it's a pro Hillary Clinton page and Hillary Clinton is running for president and you engage with a lot of people and your page gets a lot of traction, if they can slow down your page traction, slow down the amount of engagement that you have, they can slow down the amount of people who might be influenced to vote for Hillary Clinton. And say, if you have a half a million followers or something significant like that, that could play out in whatever voting area you're in by 100 votes, 1,000 votes.

Like, who knows? Well, especially if people start sharing because the content can go beyond that audience. It's interesting to me, though. You look at a guy like Mike. So very similar pipeline to Evan. Evan Hafer, Black Rifle Coffee. Evan Hafer, Black Rifle Coffee, Green Beret first. So they went the Army path and they both went and contracted for what I'll call some alphabet soup organizations.

Millions of dollars put into their training. Multiple deployments around combat theaters around the world and even to theaters before combat is there to whether prep the battle space or train a partner force doing their FID, the Foreign Internal Defense. train a partner force, you know, doing their FID, the Foreign Internal Defense. But then they get on social media and people want to not allow them to speak about the things that maybe they have learned and experienced during that time period. Yeah. Millions of dollars of training, an incredible amount of experience. But you want to silence that voice? And I'm not saying all those voices, some of the people who pursue those occupations are out of their goddamn mind. They're sociopathic for sure. But I just, I find it interesting that they'll put so much emphasis in one direction and then try to shut them down.

We should explain to people that don't know you that you're a Navy SEAL. I am not a Navy SEAL. I was a Navy SEAL in a different lifetime. Former Navy SEAL. That's correct. A different lifetime. Isn't that interesting? Because it is kind of a different lifetime. Former Navy SEAL. That's correct. A different lifetime. Isn't that interesting? Because it is kind of a different lifetime.

If you think of things you've done in your past, those are different lifetimes. Different relationships you've had. Different jobs that you've had. Those really kind of were different lives. It was almost 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I got out the last day of June 2013. So in about a year, it'll be a decade.

Are you even the same guy? You think you're the same person from 10 years ago? Emotional intelligence, I'm still the same idiot. Obviously, some more laps on the body, at least some wear and tear for sure. But, I mean, I look back into my 20s, I don't recognize the person I was. No. And I look back into my 30s, and I think I was getting a better understanding of who I was but now approaching my mid 40s I think I'm finally coming into a place where I'm

more comfortable with who I am and things make more sense it's completely different person every decade I would say yeah I would agree and for me I'm in my 50s this is the most mature I've ever been as a person, obviously most mature in terms of like actual real age mature. But it's also the most I've gotten my emotions and my brain and everything, my discipline, all of it dialed in under control. What age would you give yourself maturity wise? 54. I'm actually really a 54 year old. No, I mean like the inside Joe. No, I'm like, yeah, I know I'm actually really a 54-year-old. No, I mean like the inside Joe.

No, I'm like, yeah, I know I'm 20, 21. I'm like 12. So you got a little bit. There's the driver's license age and then there's how I act. In terms of how I treat people, I'm like 54. But in terms of like my childish, like I like to poke fun. I like to have a good time. I like to talk shit.

That's like still very immature. But awesome. Yeah, I'm very immature in that way. Yeah. No doubt. It's because you're a man. Yeah, that's a part of it too. Yeah.

I'll probably peak at 18 maturity wise. Yeah. In my, well, I don't think I'll hit my 80s, but my 70s. You'll be 18 in terms of maturity. If I'm lucky. What's scary when I look back is in my 20s i also feel like i am making up for a little bit of lost time because i was so focused on my old job for a very long period of time to the exclusion of everything else and a lot of things suffered

and it's taken me a long time to come back around and realize um i forget who had said it, but we were sitting down having a conversation. They basically said, hey, here's the bottom line. The job suffers last, always. You'll sacrifice personal relationships. You'll sacrifice marriages and loved ones. You'll miss birthdays. You'll miss holidays because the job suffers last. And when you're living that life, you don't realize it. In my 20s and early 30s, it was just completely front-site focused. And then now looking back, you miss out on some stuff, for sure. And there's some consequences that you're going to have to make amends for. I think that's something that a lot of people find if they're obsessed with whatever their career is, whether they're a pro

athlete or whether you're a Navy SEAL. I mean, I would imagine anybody that works in business at a very high level, you make sacrifices that if you have a family and you're working 16 hours a day as a CEO of a company, what kind of family do you really have? Paper family. Yeah, what kind of connection are you able to really truly have with your children? Are you really there when they get home from school? How can you be you know? Are you are you aware if your phone is constantly ringing and you're you are obligated to answer those calls and you ever see that

Show succession on HBO do you ever watch it? No, it's very good show. I love it. We just finished it today third season But it's basically about this billionaire family, and they're all dysfunctional. It doesn't sound good on paper, but in real life, it's fucking awesome. It's like one of the best-written, best-acted shows I think I've ever seen. But the life that these people live, it's like a Rupert Murdoch-type character

who runs this gigantic media conglomerate if you're that kind of a person your life is that that's your life there's no other way to do that job and I think that's probably in your old line of work very similar and for anybody that wants to excel if you want to be a high performer at any very difficult job, very competitive job, you're going to, if you're going to really be at your best, you're going to give up a lot of stuff. You're going to miss out a lot of stuff. Yeah. I think the mistake is not realizing that you're missing out on it, which is the lie that

I told myself, I think looking back at my 20 and 30s, you know, oh, my kids are young. It's going to be fine. Like I have to go on this deployment. Like, you know, complete focus in that direction. And yeah, I think if you're going to be a high performer, like you said, there is probably a lot of sacrifice. I wonder though, if those people, the Robert Murdochs's, do they on their deathbed, are they happy? I mean, are they looking back with regret and wishing they had spent more time with their family? It's a good question because what is success? Like what is, it's a relative thing because success without happiness is not really successful, but a certain level of

success plus happiness is probably more successful than more financial success and no happiness. Like you're probably better off being in the middle than being at the top for a lot of things. Most people don't want to be in the middle. Well, certainly when it comes to competitive endeavors, they don't want to. Like I was watching this documentary on, um, there's a great documentary on Marvin Hagler sugar it's called the Kings I think it's called the Kings it's a Showtime it's on Marvin Hagler Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns and it's all about when they were all battling against each other when it was you know the really golden era for both the welterweight and the middleweight divisions.

Yeah, that's what it is. The Kings. Great. I can't recommend it enough. When I was a kid, I was just a gigantic Marvin Hagler fan. I love Duran. I love Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns, too. But Hagler, when I was a kid, was the man because he was from Massachusetts, as I was.

And I would remember reading about what he would do. He would go into complete isolation. Obviously, this is pre-cell phone days. But he wouldn't see his children at all during training camp. He wouldn't see his wife. He wouldn't see any. No idea what was going on. So he would miss birthdays.

He'd miss some of his children's births. He wouldn't be there for when his kids were born. He just was focused completely on being the champ. And he goes down in history as one of the greatest of all time because of that. But it's like, is that what you want? You know, do you want, if you want to be Marvin Hagler, you want to be that guy who was just when you would see guys when they'd step into that ring and they would look across the street

look across the ring at pure determination pure will pure discipline and championship discipline it's like that that's why he was who he was I mean there's there's only one Marvin Hagler there's only one guy like that. Yeah, I would never discourage anybody from doing that. My advice would just be pay attention to what it is you might be missing and make an effort to maybe close that circle later on in life. I'm in a different phase, right? I'm living a different life at this point.

And I have the opportunity, at least in theory, to try to close some of those gaps that I might've missed because my kids were younger. So I think I was able to get away with a lot. I mean, I remember the last appointment I did, I kissed my daughter goodbye in a crib. You know, that's how young she was. She doesn't have any memory of that. My boys do, but there's still work that needs to be done to close that circle up. Yeah, that's a different story, right? The circle of having this insane dedication and ignoring children. Because you don't get those times back. You get times back with your friends.

If you don't see your friends for a couple years, I have friends where I can miss them. I don't see them for two years. We run into each other. Within five minutes, we're back to where we were, and we're just having fun and having a great time. There's no issues. But the developmental process of a child is so critical. And, like, being around kids when they're young, you never get that back.

Well, there's being there, and then there's being there. And this is also a mistake that I made, too. I was fortunate I was at all the births of my kids. I didn't miss our rotation cycle for whatever reason. I was home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I don't think I missed one, but there is a difference between being physically present and mentally present. And that is one where I know looking back, I would not give myself the highest of marks. Again, the job suffers last, and that's not an excuse by any stretch, and people should judge me harshly for that. But at the same time, it's also allows – I mean it's what allows you to go and focus on and do those things. Because I don't – if I had not had that level of focus, I mean we're spinning off into hypothesis, but who knows what would have happened.

It could have either cost me my life or what would have actually been worse, in my opinion, is it costing somebody else their life. And that's real. If you're in that kind of a job, you cannot have distractions. You can. It doesn't work out well. Yeah. Or you get shit-canned.

Yeah. I mean, the standards and the tolerances, they're tight. And people will get benched sometimes Or you get shit can't. Yeah. I mean, the standards and the tolerances, they're tight. And people will get benched sometimes and given time to work on whatever it is they need to work on. And from my understanding, the modern day teams are doing a much better job of integrating the overall family unit, which I actually think will make the guys even more lethal. If you know your family is taken care of, if your family is healthy, if you have a good communication dynamic and things are well when you go overseas, it lets you put even more mental horsepower into what's going on over there.

That makes sense. Yeah. But it's interesting occupation. Every time somebody says, hey, Andy, I want to be a SEAL. I'm like, awesome. Let's talk about other jobs that you might be interested in.

Like any other job. Is there, like in terms of like qualified candidates, are there less now than ever before or more? I'm a little bit detached from the process. So it's like second or third hand, but I don't think there is a lack of people signing up to do the job. But qualified candidates. I mean, qualified physically? It's more than physical, right? But the initial pipeline is a very – it's very physical.

People say the physical part is 10 percent and the mental aspect is 90, and you can put whatever ratio you want to it. It's challenging for both, but the first thing the program does is it grinds people into dust. That's what it's designed to do physically, and that will expose a lot of mental weaknesses. And all I can really say is that the big end of the siphon is very full. The bottom end, the smaller end of the siphon is still spitting out the exact same number of people. So I think it's working. I would say there's not a, I don't think there's a lack of qualified people. My concern would be, and this is not based on anything that I have necessarily seen, but just kind of watching the world that I think people may be perhaps

pursuing that type of occupation for very different, perhaps more self-serving reasons now. What kind of reasons? You ever seen a movie or a book about the post 9-11 era, Joe? Yeah. Do you think that people really enlisting and trying to go through the process so that they could eventually write books? I don't know if that would be in the forefront of their mind. I think people might be enlisting in pursuing those jobs for the fanfare that could potentially come from them. Oh, Christ.

Well, when you reward them on a national – and here's the thing. I found more information about the SEAL teams through a documentary called Navy SEALs starring Charlie Sheen than any other movie. It's the fucking greatest SEAL movie ever created. I thought I would do Dick Marchenko's books back when I was a kid. So that's actually what led me to the movie Navy SEALs.

And I would just recommend people go and look at the hair on those gentlemen. Fucking top notch, just constantly manicured. I don't know about the telemarketer headsets that they're wearing that don't respond Well to water or sweat. I would probably pass on that. Yes, look at them. Oh, look how good his hair looks My hair has never looked that good ever. What's that scarf supposed to match? Let's talk about this for a second It is it's dope as fuck and I need one in my life No, you don't I swear to God if I saw you wearing one of those I would at least attempt to choke you with I'm gonna wear it at the range.

At the range to keep shells from going into my neck, bro. Now, we got Vietnam-era woodland camo with, oh, fuck, cigarette butt. I mean. Yeah, look at him. He was a beautiful man. So. Right? Can we agree to that, Charlie Sheen?

Oh, for sure. In that picture, he's a beautiful man. Look, I mean, imagine you are pretending to be Navy SEAL. Yeah. You have weightlifting gloves on, it looks like.

Yep. Fingerless, of course. Like, the Dice Man! Oh! How long after this did Hot Shots come out? Because they had completely a parody

of this movie. It's a good point. 10 to 15 years, probably. No, it was like a year later. That's a very good point. Hot Shots is in the 90s. That's a very good point.

And he's making fun of himself that is a straight up telemarketer headset no doubt about it whatsoever yeah that is not a headset you wear in the field right that i'm not joking though so i was able to find uh the dick marcinco books i was able to find a book called look at that mp5 sd fucking get some no magazine no magazine why doesn't it have a magazine it's like hey asshole what's in that pouch on your shoulder what the fuck do you carry on your shoulder why does it have a magazine how is he there he goes got a mag in that one oh finally got a magazine oh my god that's hilarious

i did a telemarketer headsets killing me oh my god i did a breakdown of this with callan and i had him narrate the scenes and he was like deep into it Talking about angles. He was completely and utterly wrong with everything that he said Brian's the best. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean mp5 SD. So that's a pistol round. That's a nine millimeter Oh, yeah, that's a nine millimeter cartridge, but it's so big What's so big the gun it looks like looks like it can carry more. Like you should probably beef it up a little. I think it's a 30. I mean, it's still going to be shooting a pistol. Oh my

God, the jump scene. Look at these guys. So in the history of the SEAL teams, there has never been a skydive into a fucking dragger dive. Like there are so many things. What's a dragger dive? So what they're wearing in front of them, that's a LAR-5 dragger. That's a rebreather. The green bottle underneath is pure

oxygen. Inside of the black, like little clamshell thing is a container that has either probably softener lime or soda sorb, and it scrubs the carbon dioxide out of your breathing system so that the black cable going around their neck, or not cable, hose, it's an inhalation and an exhalation hose. So you purge all of the carbon dioxide out of your system and you're breathing pure O2. And so there's no bubbles. Right. So what they're saying is we're going to skydive in to a jump and then be super sneaky on the way in so we don't have any bubbles. Does that sound possible?

It's very possible. And it's happened precisely zero fucking times. How come? Because it's dangerous. You're combining like multiple different things. and it's happened precisely zero fucking times. How come? Because it's dangerous. You're combining like multiple different things. But he's Charlie Sheen. He is Charlie Sheen.

Look at his hair. That movie is fantastic. It legitimately, I've watched it probably 200 times. Most of that was before the age of 18 though. And I had the Dick Marcinko books and that, and that's what led me. So I, I'm not, I'm not hating on the people that do write the books because that was my initial intro and, and information to lead me towards that. But the volume of them and how there's a culture about around being a veteran and, and people will be very upset about that. And maybe to some degree I fall into that because I was a veteran too,

but there are people who make their entire living upon what they did in the past, the vet, you know, the bro vet culture and all that. And again, people can do whatever they want to with their experiences. But when I was joining, there was, there was none of that. It was hard for me to find information. And now the information is almost overwhelming. And I don't want to rob that from people because, like I said, it's the same path that I took. But there is also an unhealthy desire for people to be elevated in their status and use that occupation for that.

And, again, I don't have any data to support it, but I would be worried that perhaps people's reasons for joining is shifting. That makes sense, right? Like they see the glory, so they go towards the glory. You know, that's one of the things that people from the early days of MMA, one of the things that they really liked is that there was no money. Not that they liked that there was no money, but they liked that everybody who was competing was doing it for a pure reason. They were doing it to test themselves. They were doing it because they really wanted to see how their skills stacked up inside

the octagon. It's pretty tough to get punched in the face for free. A lot of guys did it. For the right reason though. It separates the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly. Yeah. I mean, if you want to compete like amateur fighters, you think about how many guys are fighting amateur, and they're out there getting kicked and punched and strangled, and they're not getting a goddamn penny.

Hard pass. Yeah. That's the reason why they're doing it, though. They're doing it for the right reasons. They're doing it to excel. I completely and utterly support that. reasons. They're doing it to excel. I completely and utterly support that. And I think that you, I think that everybody should go through that phase in their life where you see where you want to go and you're kidding, just your dick stomped into the dirt and you're not being rewarded for

it in any way. And you have to struggle and fight and just grind your way to that end state. Yeah. I'm a firm believer that those uncomfortable experiences of failure are, they are so critical to your development as a human being. And not just your development in whatever the endeavor of choice is, but your development as a human being. That if you don't have those, the people that seek too much comfort, if you don't have those rough experiences, you don't develop properly. Those people who seek too much comfort, they don't develop right. They're like a salamander that never becomes its mature form. There's something missing. Overwhelmed by the competition like being completely inadequate completely unprepared completely

Insufficient to get the job done like that's important to know because otherwise You go through this life for like how many guys out there who have never had any physical altercation with people have this completely? Distorted perception of what they're capable of doing but I call called the game time player, Joe, so they don't need to train. It's my mentality, bro. They see red when the switch flits. The bodies start dropping. Yeah, usually after about a 12-pack. They just see red, get after it.

There's a lot of people that really believe that. And that is precisely because they haven't experienced it. Resilience can be taught. they haven't experienced it. Resilience can be taught. You know, to go back to, again, you know, my old job, people will equate or they talk about mental toughness with it a lot. And everybody has some degree of mental toughness, right? Like you're born with some, but I'm a firm believer that can actually be taught as well. And we've talked about this offline. I think we were at the Deseret talking about the theory of keeping your world small, right? Little small chunks and stuff like that. The way you set your goals drastically will impact, I think, the statistical odds of success,

but also seeking difficult things and finding failure. Resilience, the only way you're going to build resilience is if you push up against things that are hard. You know, the definition of resilience is an object being pushed from its normal state and returning to that state. I think the goal should be returned to that state plus 0.01%. But if you always avoid those things, how are you ever going to expect to be capable of handling the challenges of life? And I think that's where the mental toughness aspect of not the SEAL community, but I would say the military to a degree, but specifically because I can speak to the special operations world, the pipelines, they're just wrought with failure. I mean the curriculum is designed to find your weakest point and then exploit it and get in there with a rake and just fucking dig around in your head.

And it's failure after failure after failure after failure. Not catastrophic, but small failure, small punishment. And there are people who see that as a roadblock and they quit. And there are people who see that as a roadblock and they quit. And there are people who see that as a motivation and they move forward. And if you can, if you can grasp your head around those principles, I mean, it puts you in a place where you're able to accomplish things that'll make people scratch their head. Yeah. And, but it can all be taught. It can be, but you have to seek that. You have to seek that. And you have to be, you have to be accustomed to the experience of trying to do things and failing, trying to do things and getting maybe a little bit better.

Looking back six months, you're better than you were then. Looking back a year later, you're better than you were then. And being able to trust that process and just keep grinding. People want instantaneous satisfaction. They want instant advancement. People want instantaneous satisfaction. They want instant advancement. They want to know that if they take 10 classes, they get a stripe on their white belt.

And that's just not how the world works. I think that's why I like jiu-jitsu so much. Not because of the 10 classes and you get a stripe on your white belt, but the growth is incremental at best. At best. At best. At best. The best way to ensure more than incremental growth, though, is to do the difficult stuff. Drilling. Roll with a dude who you know is just going to hand you your lunch. I don't know if that's the best way.

No, I don't mean like rough hand you your lunch. The dude, everybody to include myself. Like you go to the gym, you're like, God damn it. Bob's here. It never goes my way when I roll with Bob. So I'm not going to. It's like, no, you need to go roll with the guy that you know is probably going to beat you. Except the fact that you're going to get beat.

I don't mean getting mauled, even though I do believe there's a time and place for that too. But that's, your body will tell you. Like, and this happens, I think, professionally as well too. Because it happens to me. I'll fire up the inbox. I'm like, God damn it I'll fire up the inbox like god damn it I don't want to answer that email because I don't want to talk about that topic so that's exactly what I actually should probably be attacking jiu-jitsu I think is just more of a physical expression yeah I think being with a guy like the Bob's of the world it's it's a great litmus test too.

You need those tests. You need to know. You need to have like a real idea of where you're at. Like there's – I remember when I was a white belt, there was guys that I would roll with that would just smush me. And then by the time I got to be like a brown belt, I could either stalemate them or I could occasionally tap them. Yeah. And the same guys used to smush me, I could either stalemate them or I could occasionally tap them. Yeah. And the same guys used to smush me, I could tap. And that's a crazy feeling of knowing that it's a long journey of over a decade of getting strangled and your fucking ass handed to you that you do make progress.

Willingly go ask another man to choke you nearly unconscious. It's not kinky. That's what it is. And it's not a decade for everybody. I didn't train as much as some folks do. Some folks are training every single day. Like Bourdain, when he was really into jiu-jitsu, he was telling me that he was taking a private every day for an hour,

and then he was taking a class every day after the private. Every day. So about two hours of training a day? Two hours plus every day. How old was he when he found it? 58. Fuck. 58, smoking cigarettes, overweight, had high blood pressure, was on statins.

He took statins because we had a conversation about that too because he did not want to stop eating the kind of food that he loved. And he had high blood pressure and he had high cholesterol. I can respect that decision. Well, he was a food freak, man. I mean, that was his fucking occupation was traveling around the world. And he said, you know, I'm not going to stop eating this food. I mean, this is literally what I enjoy most in life.

I travel to these places. I have these amazing dishes. Like, why would I stop doing that? I'll just take whatever pill they have. And I'm like, I get it there. Like, most people, they would tell you, you know, I'd rather take a pill and I don't want to make any lifestyle changes. I I'm like, I get it there. Like most people, they would tell you, you know, I'd rather take a pill and I don't want to make any lifestyle changes. I'd be like, oh man, like what, what are the downsides of that? I don't know what the downsides of statins are.

I don't know. And matter of fact, didn't David Sinclair talk about the upsides of statins? Wasn't that something that he had brought up? I know I've read things. I'm not sure. But the point is like for most people, I'd say, man, you know, make some lifestyle changes. But for him, I was like, okay, I get it. But when he started training every day and he was training two plus hours a day, he got off everything. He didn't need any medication. That's a crazy volume at 58 years old. He's an animal.

He was an animal. Yeah. Oh, that one hurts me. That one hurts me. How far did he? He was a belt okay he was good he was good man the guy was an animal and he he was very proud of the fact that he could really be a hard role he goes like uh you know he goes i was a good role how tall and heavy was he he's pretty tall I think I think he was like six two or six three 190 ish he looked a little towards the end yeah

towards because he got very ripped mmm there's a picture of him walking down the street somewhere with no shirt on with the ex with his ex with the you know I guess the girl he was dating when he died or was i think they were broken out when he died i mean he was like full six-pack which is crazy at that age yeah i aspire to be able to do that yeah i'm sure he wasn't on the natch you know are you trying to say it was more than chicken breast and broccoli yes i think i think he had some help In fact, I encouraged him to here he goes like look at that. Holy shit. Yeah, bro

legit Yeah, well Tony was an addict right so he had heard about him addicted to not just looking him in Iggy Pop He was addicted to not just things that were bad for you, but also things that were good for you You know, that's something BJ Penn told me too BJ Penn told me he was having a conversation with this guy who was a huge fan of his who was addicted to jiu-jitsu and he was saying to BJ like I got my black belt in three years just like you and he goes man he goes you're dedicated he goes no man I'm addicted I'm addicted just like you and he goes goes, and then I realized like, yeah, that's what's going on. I was addicted. I'm addicted.

I think there's an aspect of that. And I also think that there are people who use it as a coping mechanism. They'll dive into that as opposed to having the hard conversations with themselves or putting the work in because all they're doing actually goes back to what we were talking about before. They're working so hard on one thing to the exclusion of others. That's true. what we were talking about before. They're working so hard on one thing to the exclusion of others. That's true.

So it's – I mean I don't have nearly enough experience to comment on jiu-jitsu as a whole or anybody else's journey in it. But from the conversations I've had with coaches that I respect, they have all kind of either experienced that a little bit, that level of dedication, or seen other people who every other aspect of their life is falling apart but they'll spend three to four hours a day on the mats yeah so I could I mean I can see it is addicting it's fucking awesome I wish I had found it 30 years ago yeah how are you still injured you had like a elbow thing that was keeping you from doing good are you that's called just not tapping Joe it's a theory that nobody should explore and recommend it

but it's hard to not tap. It was my own fault. It came on faster than I thought it would. What came on faster? The arm arc? It was fine. I also could have started to tap before my arm was straight. There's a lot of things that I could have done.

Is it still fucked up or is it better? We're good. I'm good now. It's good? But it kept you from doing archery for a while, right? It happened right before the archery season two years ago. Oh no. Which the first thing I did was go try to pick up my bow because it was of course my holding arm and I go to pick it up and yeah, that's not happening. I could have drawn it, but it would have just drawn it directly into my face. Did you use peptides or anything to help heal it? No, I told you. I'm scared of fucking needles. I'm not going to shoot myself up.

Is that real? That's real. I don't like needles. What's wrong with needles? What is the needle thing? I don't understand that one. I don't know. Why do some people like chocolate ice cream and not vanilla?

I can't explain it. I think it's so funny because this is one of the things that comes up a lot with COVID vaccines. People go, are you scared of needles? I'm like, no, I'm not scared of needles. Like, why the fuck would I be scared of needles? Some people are scared of needles. Well, let me rephrase it. I don't have any problem with shots and we did like a bunch of IV training

and then, which paid off awesome when we were hungover. I don't have a problem getting shots. What you were describing would be me having to shoot, inject myself. That bothers you. I would pass out. Really? Oh, a hundred percent. Just straight auger. I just, or I'd have to sit there and like count down from 10, like 10, nine. Okay. I'll start over 10. That's wild. I just can't. I look at my body like it's made out of Play-Doh. I just stick the needles in. Really? Yeah, it doesn't even. That does not work for me.

When I had like a tennis elbow and I would like put the BPC 157 into there, I would just stick it right in there and just squirt it in there. You're a unique man, Joe. I don't think that's that unique. I think it's the needle thing is, I don't know what it is, but for some people that are like really tough people, that's an issue. The needle thing's an issue. It's an issue if I have to do it myself.

I don't have a problem with shots or blood draws or stuff like that. I used to date a girl and her whole family had a thing where they would see things and they would faint. Like the dad was a dentist. Like goats? Like the fainting goats? Like the dad was a dentist. Like the fainting goats? Like the dad was a dentist. And one day his son got sunburned and he had blisters. And the dad saw the blisters and just fucking dropped dead.

Just fainted. Not dead, you know, fainted. Yeah. And I was like, what? Your dad just faints? I go, your dad's a fucking dentist. How does he just faint? And so one time her and I went to the movies.

And in the movie, someone was shooting heroin. And the person sticks the needle into their arm and plunges the and she just blacks out. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? So it's like some really strange. It seems like it's a genetic thing like her and her dad would just fall asleep. Rando. I hope they didn't see that shit when they were driving. I know. Right. I mean, that's a rough of that shit when they were driving. I know, right? I mean, that's a rough life

if you just randomly see things and pass out. Yeah. I would get that checked out. Some people pass out though, right? When they see things that are fucked up, they pass out. What is that? Shock, I think.

Yeah, but what kind of evolutionary benefit would there ever be in blacking out when you see something that's stunning i don't know don't you ever watch videos of fainting goats i don't think there's any evolutionary benefit but it happens yeah they are they're the best they're not as good as people on you know mountain bikes eating shit but my dog caught a possum a few months ago and uh it played yeah it plays dead but they i thought they played dead, but apparently they go into shock, and they just lay there,

and they think that it might increase their benefit, like increase their chances, rather, of survival, because some animals, when they attack them, will stop attacking them if they don't move. So when the animal attacks them, like a wolf or something will shake them, and if they don't just lay perfectly still, they'll think they're dead already and they might have a chance of survival that's better than fighting back. I think I would fight back with the wolf.

That thing's going to eat your face. Well, yeah, fight back with a wolf. What's the point? A wolf's going to fuck you up no matter what. Climb a tree. Reflex vasovagal faints or reflex faints. That's what the- Yeah, apparently are unique to humans.

Oh. So other animals obviously faint, but- We're such a bitch ass species. We're such a bitch ass species. We're basically water balloons. Vasovagal faints. Are essentially a protective mechanism. Reflex faints are activated by the nervous system,

which slows down the heart rate and lowers blood pressure in response to strain, leading to reduced blood flow to the brain. I bet people who faint like that can get choked out easy. Triggers for this can be surprisingly benign. For some people, laughing, coughing, swallowing, urinating. Imagine you take a leak and you just black out. Oh, don't keep going. Or blowing a trumpet.

Well, blowing a trumpet, like if you go to Dizzy Gillespie. When I was a kid, I went to see Dizzy Gillespie live. I saw him live. It's the craziest shit ever. Do you know who Dizzy Gillespie is? Not a clue. Dizzy Gillespie was a jazz trumpeter, like a legendary jazz trumpeter, whose cheeks would blow up.

He actually did it in a way that it's like not how they teach you They don't teach you to fill your face up with air, but he did it and it became a part of his signature So we went to see him when I lived in San Francisco, we went to see him play and His cheeks would blow up like I mean it looks like he's got a softball on each side of his mouth was he able to play the trumpet differently than anybody else because of that I don't know enough about trumpet to answer that he was awesome he was awesome but that's not the way they teach you to do it like they teach you to keep your mouth shut. Because I remember I took a class, music class, on trumpet playing.

And when I was in the class, I was remembering how Dizzy Gillespie did it. And I was like, that's crazy. This guy's a legend. And he did it the total opposite. Because you're not supposed to fill your face up with air. You're supposed to like, what's the correct, find out what's the correct technique for blowing a trumpet.

Because I think you're supposed to keep your mouth closed and keep everything tight. You're definitely not supposed to fill your face up with air. But Dizzy might have been self-taught. How to form a trumpet. Wow, how do you say that word?

Ooh. Embouchure. Embouchure. Embouchure. How to play the trumpet. Just click that. Okay, click that. Let's see.

I wonder if there is an agreed upon best technique. This is a gentleman called the Black Trumpeter. Practice forming your embouchure in front of a mirror. Embouchure. Using the front facing camera on your phone. So you can practice forming your embouchure in one motion like this. Like you're about to spit. He's doing like a Bill Cosby.

Jello pudding. Right? Doesn't that look like that face? Yeah. Then we're going to firm our corners and lastly flatten our chin. So that thing, that's the way you're supposed to play the trumpet. The flat face. Right.

So then you look dizzy. Give me some dizzy glass so you can hear it. Holy shit. Look at his neck. Yeah. Yeah, like all the way to the back of his neck would fill up with air. Like all the way to the back of his neck would fill up with air. So when you see him, that's not how you're supposed to do it.

But yet, he's a legend. A legend doing it his own way. There's always going to be an outlier like that, right? There's some weird shit in the archery world too. Oh, yeah. There's a 90% everybody should do like this and then there's some Weirdo doing it some other way at an incredibly high level yeah well You know John Dudley is a big proponent of the surprise shot right they're all using Like hinge releases or all kinds of releases you pull through the shot

And you get a surprise shot, But Cam Haynes just hits the trigger. He just lines it up and he just hits the trigger and he's the best bow hunter alive. I mean, I think if you spend enough time dedicating yourself to it, you can get to that level. I think anybody who says

this works for everybody is immediately full of shit. Yeah, I think so too. I think that's with everything. I mean, with martial arts, you see see that there's people that have like really weird technique and they pull it off but for for some things it's like when you're learning what are you hitting others a cough button I got a cough but I don't even have to cough but I want to hit that but a little red button

right hit the button start talking talk and then hit the button yeah I gotta upgrade this is like a professional studio it's close I'll just take notes get other stuff but you should learn the right way like there's a reason why like you should when you throw a right hand you should turn your whole body into it and you know it should be lined up with your shoulders and pushing off the floor you could fuck people up without doing that though there's guys he hit so hard And, you know, it should be lined up with your shoulders and pushing off the floor. You could fuck people up without doing that, though. There's guys who hit so hard they can hit you with, like, poor technique.

All you need to do is go on YouTube and put in there cold cock, and you're going to see the shittiest technique ever and people getting flatlined. Yeah, sure, yeah. Easy putting in cold cock. I mean, I don't know about your search history. Cold cock punch. The thing is, it doesn't take that much to knock someone out. That's what people don't realize.

You know, especially if you don't see it coming. How much did you pay attention to your bell getting rung when you were younger? Very little. Yeah, I didn't either. And I actually have some pretty severe concerns about how the later years of my life might potentially be, given my concussion history. I had an offer recently to get a brain scan, and I panicked. Because you don't want to know? I don't want to know. It's like I had a concussion not last year, but the year before.

I went skiing before the pandemic ended. last year but the year before went skiing before the pandemic ended or before the pandemic started went skiing and uh this lady was kind of losing control and sliding into this trail and i was going around the corner and i saw her and she would she would there's no way to get around her and i was like i gotta figure and i i had to wipe out i had to just kind of like go around her this way and the skis went up and hit the back of my head off the ground and I was fucked up I mean it was a hard hit that was I didn't go unconscious but I definitely got a concussion because I was dizzy for the rest of day and and I had a hard time with my coordination like I I fell down trying to get on the ski lift and then I

couldn't figure out how to get up properly like like my body wasn't listening right this is and my daughter's like the fuck is wrong with you embarrassing me it was embarrassing a lady had to grab my arm and help me stand up which is you know I'm a pretty strong person I can get up pretty easy with skis on but my body was not listening right and then the rest of the day I was foggy. And I was like, Jesus, I didn't need that. And I was thinking about all the times that I've had my bell rang. Did you ever at all just consider nuking that lady and going through her? No. No, I would have killed her. I was coming around that corner. No, she was going to,

it would have been terrible. Just curious. I'm not saying. No, no, no. It would have been terrible. It would have been terrible. It would have been terrible. Last time I rung my bell, it was actually at Jiu Jitsu.

It was, again, completely my fault. And I'm glad at this point I can, I'm recognizing my mistakes and avoiding them, but a guy was turtled up and I was on his back too far towards his shoulders. He shook you. No, I got both of my hands involved over that. It was either one was over and one wasn't or maybe going for a harness of some kind and completely my fault to do so. But he rolled and the first thing that hit was my head. And fuck, I had a headache for days.

Yeah. And same thing, like foggy thoughts, very distressed sleep. I was actually, I found myself waking up sweating in the middle of the night. It's a, it, I'm the, the number of head injuries be very interesting. I would actually probably pass as well on the brain scan. I, I don't think I actually want to know. I don't want to know. Look, whatever I have right now, it's, I'm maintaining. I don't want to know that it's whatever I have right now, I'm maintaining. I don't want to know that it's, you know. I mean, maybe I should get it checked out.

I don't know. You know, the thing about those kind of forward pitch things that freak me out is the neck injury. That freaks me out more than even the head, I think. Oh, the head coming back, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Anytime there's a movement where weight from two guys is on the head one of the guys from uh i think it was team alpha male i've heard this happen more than once where someone shoots for a takedown and the other guy gets a guillotine and falls back and so as the

guy drives forward to take down his head hits first with both of their weight and they paralyze it he broke his neck and he's paralyzed from the neck down I've heard that happen on more than one occasion from that exact specific move a guy shoots in for a double the other guy like just goes with it with the guillotine and you know gets the head to the side and all the weight of the head all the weight of the two bodies hits the top of the head and it snaps the of the two bodies hits the top of the head, and it snaps the neck. That sucks. Fuck, man.

That's the scariest shit ever. That sucks for both people. Because you know the person who had the guillotine obviously had no intent to try to do that, and you have to live with that weight? That would suck. Well, you know, anytime you hurt somebody in training, like anytime something happens and someone gets hurt, you're always thinking about that next time you're training. whenever you're in a weird position like a tangle of legs

and you you know like someone's knee explodes like every time you're in that situation afterwards you're like oh shit like you're gonna hesitate you're gonna think yeah i've heard that happen only one time on the mat i heard a guy i believe it was his MCL go, and everybody freezes, and then he starts moving his leg a little bit, and then brace for the next six to eight weeks. Yeah. It made me sick to my stomach just hearing it. I wasn't even directly involved in what was going on. I had my ACL pop like a carrot. It was like, it snapped like it sounded like a stick, like a stick cracking.

It was so loud. Is that a cadaver fix? Yeah, that one was was i've had both of them go the left one they did it with a patella tendon graft the right one they did with a cadaver the right one was way quicker it healed quick and with no like real residual pain the right one was like six months later i was doing jiu jitsu but the left one with the patella tendon graft that was like a whole year before it felt good at least a year can you trust it as much as you would have before yeah it's stronger than it was before it's a

hundred and fifty percent stronger than a regular ACL because they don't use an ACL to the cadaver with a stronger tendon they use Achilles from a dead dude and I said just get the biggest football player or woman i mean we shouldn't assume what they get they use a man it's 2022 you shouldn't assume it was a dude i was i wanted to do a big dude i'll take a linebacker off the yeah that's what i want i want some just giant viking motherfuckers achilles tendon give me his shit screw that in place. Yeah, I've been lucky so far with injuries.

I haven't had any knee stuff. I roll more defensively after that day. You have to. I have to because I don't want to spend time off the mat. Man, it's so much fun, man. I love it. It is so fun. What belt do you know?

Purple. Oh, shit. Moving on up. Moving on up. Moving on up. How many years now? Fucking nowhere. Three. Three and a half.

And how many days a week? Eight. Really? No, I go like five days a week. Well, eight is, to me, it's like twice a day once. I do, I will usually do two hours a day, five days a week. That's a lot. My schedule-

Five days a week's a lot. My schedule allows for it. Yeah. And so that's usually a class for an hour and then an open mat for an hour. Wow. I love it. That's a lot. Five days a week is a lot. My schedule allows for it. And so that's usually a class for an hour and then an open mat for an hour. Wow. I love it. That's awesome. That's awesome. I think I like the mental aspect of it more, the problem solving.

I like the fact that it's hard. I don't think I enjoy things as a person that are easy or easy to me. I don't find a lot of fulfillment and enrichment from that. No, no one does. I mean, what is good that's easy to me. I don't find a lot of fulfillment and enrichment from that. No, no one does. What is good that's easy? Yeah, and plus if you're waking up in the middle of the night still trying to figure out how somebody did that to you, that's your like,

you're like, oh that motherfucker. I'm going to get him next time. It's the best motivation for cardio. I find myself, to this day, I'll be on the fucking air assault bike and I'll be doing those Tabata reps, and I'll think about someone who tapped me because I was tired like 10 years ago. I'll think about this moment where I know I could have pulled out of a triangle, but I was just too fucking exhausted, and then I wound up getting tapped. I'm like, shit.

And I just fucking. It's amazing. You ever do Tabatas? You ever do Tabatas? Oh, yeah. 20 on,'re just fucking, yeah. It's amazing how those- You ever do Tabatas? You ever do Tabatas? Oh, yeah. 20 on, 10 off for eight rounds. It's so effective. Whoever figured that out,

I guess his name was Tabata. Dr. Izuti Tabata. What a genius way to expand your cardiovascular capability because it really is genius. You can do with anything to include body weight. So I used to work for CrossFit

and one of the first things that they would do is they would get everybody out, air squats, Tabata air squats. And your score was based off the maximum number that you could hold through the eight rounds. So if you did 30 air squats in the first round, but four in the eighth, your score is four. Oh, really? And so, and most people, I think around 20 would be pretty good. If that was your first exposure to that, though, you are going to be either looking for a wheelchair the next few days or walking like you have no fine motor control of your legs. You can do it with the kettlebells, Tabatas with the dumbbell. You can do it sprinting.

It's one of the most effective protocols that I've ever touched. I wonder how he figured that out, how he figured out that 20-second 20 second sprint, 10 second rest, 20 second sprint, 10 second rest. Have you ever played with like 30, 15 or 30, 10? No, I've only done 20. I haven't either. And I don't know why. Cause maybe, I don't know. I would imagine he messed around with it until he found the optimal. I think he was working with racers actually, endurance racers. My memory might be off on this this but i think it had something to do with increasing cardio respiratory capacity without doing long slow distance pretty sure i also could

be completely wrong well it's it's a weird protocol right like the 20 seconds of going all out and then 10 seconds of rest and 20 seconds of all but i I found when I was doing that for a while, I had an injury, and I couldn't hit the bag for quite a while. But I was still okay to do that. And then when I went back to hitting the bag, I lost very little in terms of cardiovascular capacity. I was like, that's pretty impressive. It's pretty commonly accepted, I think, now, like long, slow distance runners.

They can maintain what they have, if not add to it it by doing shorter interval work really yeah I mean I know well I don't know an incredibly high level ones but I know people who can perform at that level and they're not going past like a 400 meter maybe at most some repeats of 800 like one on one off so when you would do Tabata's like how many cycles of Tabata like uh I have an Echo bike from Rogue. I have exactly the same bike. That is the shit. Yes. That bike is the shit.

It is so good. And it's so fucking sturdy. I was just going to say I think it could survive a nuclear blast. It's so good. It's good. Rogue makes awesome stuff. It's so well designed. But when I would do, I would do a cycle of eight.

So I'd do eight sprints. You would do it eight times? No. Well, I've done that too. Yeah. But that's what's programmed into it. That is the traditional Tabata interval is eight rounds of 20 on 10 off. It should take four minutes.

Yeah. So that doesn't seem like a lot of cardio. I think it depends on how hard you go. Right. But four minutes is still just four minutes. Yeah. You think in terms of long-term endurance base? I think you would need to pile volume on top of that. Right. But four minutes is still just four minutes. Yeah. You think in terms of like long-term endurance base. I think you would need to pile volume on top of that.

Right. Well, I've done that. I've done eight rounds of that. And it's brutal. Eight rounds of eight reps. Yeah. That's bordering on psychotic. Just on that bike you did that? I've only done it a few times, but then I'm wrecked for days afterwards. For people out there listening who think that, like, oh, four minutes, is it really that hard? I have a suggestion. Go get an empty 45-pound barbell. Do you know what a thruster is?

You start in front squat, you go all the way down, and you drive it overhead for 20 seconds. Do as many as you can, take 10 seconds off and repeat that eight times and let me know how hard you think four minutes is. There's a good chance you'll shit yourself if you've never done that before. Yeah, there's a lot of things that are really easy the first time you do it. That's not easy, though.

What do I mean, the first rep? Oh, yeah, like 10 reps in, you're like, I am basically, Marvel should be making a movie about me. I'm Thor's bigger brother. And then in the third round, you're questioning your life choices. There's a great kettlebell series by this guy Keith Weber, Kettlebell Cardio Extreme. And I would do this with either a 35-pound or a 45-pound kettlebell. And you pick up a 35-pound kettlebell.

You're like, this is nothing. This is so light. How's this going to be difficult for me? Two minutes in, you're ready to die. And this is like he does, I think his program was like a half an hour. It's like this crazy half-hour workout that basically does your whole body with one kettlebell. So with this one DVD, and Keith is a great guy. I've had him on the podcast before.

With this one kettlebell, this one video, you get this insane cardio workout with a single 35-pound kettlebell. I owned a gym in Coronado when I was still in the military, and I would introduce people to the movements with PVC pipe. Really? And, I mean, what a simple way because it's linear and you can get them to move and there's no consequences with the weight. What a simple way because it's linear and you can get them to move and there's no consequences with the weight. But you can demolish people with a PVC pipe upon first exposure. I'm talking shaking like a dog shitting a razor blade with a six ounce piece of pipe. Yeah.

So I think it's all about the exposure. It is. Well, it's just using your body, just body weight stuff with no weight at all. There's so many movements that you can do that will crush you just do split squats with just body weights and try to stand up you know like it's hard body weight stuff you can you like when people say i can't afford a gym like guess what you're in luck yeah because you could basically bring your heart to the brink of exploding in a small room with nothing but your own weight and gravity. The first workout, so for I would say the first nine years when I was in the military, it was back and byes, chest and tris, and then legs. And by that I mean a shirtless run on the beach.

Repeated for like nine years. The first time I did a CrossFit style workout, it was actually, I was introduced to it through Mark Twight, who's an amazing alpinist, has done some just spectacular stuff. And he's a wealth of knowledge. And I forget the exact structure, but it was squats, a kettlebell swing, and pull-ups. And it started at a high number, and the workout is called Jonesworthy. And at the end of it, I felt, I was like, okay, my body feels a little bit different. The next morning, I fell down my stairs because my legs refused to work. That's how much it destroyed me. And I think the workout took like six to eight minutes. And I had been around weights my entire adult life.

And I'm talking to the point where like you need a rappel harness to get onto the toilet because like as you're squatting down, your legs give out and you're going to blast the bowl out behind you. It's just like holding onto the door for dear life so you can actually not break the porcelain. But do you like,

is that the best way to get strong or should you build up? So that that never happens, right? You know the Pavel Totsalin method like so the greasing the groove method like in his world You never get to that point where you're that broken down For clarity. I did it to myself It was a completely new stimulus and I said how hard can this be? Me and a buddy. And we were literally crippled for days. For clarity. For clarity.

If you're going to do it for optimum- I would expose people very gradually. And I would do a mix of that type of conditioning and pure strength, because I can't think of a single downside to being strong. But you also need to have capacity as well. No, there's no downside to being strong. But how do you feel about that? Like this school of thought, like the Pavel school of thought is you never go to failure. You just give yourself much more time in between the repetitions. You do – like if you can do 10, you only do 5, but then you do more sets. I don't have the knowledge or experience to even be able to comment on it.

I mean I messed around. I don't have the knowledge or experience to even be able to comment on it. I mean, I messed around. And when I owned the gym, it was a CrossFit gym, and I was administering that type of coaching. So I don't have the knowledge base to be able to say. I know that when I changed my conditioning from, I think the heaviest I was was probably 225, and that's before I put on any of my ballerina gear. And then I got down to about 195 or maybe 200, but the lighter I got, the more capable I was. And I actually, by changing the way that I trained, I actually got stronger and more capable. But I don't know,

I don't have any experience outside of like genres of exercise beyond that. So I don't know. Yeah. There's so many different schools of thought in terms of like what's best for performance. What would you say is best for jujitsu? What would you recommend for people with a strength training regimen? I think most people feel that kettlebells are one of the best modalities for strength and conditioning for jujitsu, kettlebells, chin ups, and you know, things and things along those lines. Because one of the things about kettlebells is that it forces your body to work as a unit, right? Like when you're doing things that aren't sexy, like Turkish get-ups are a perfect example. That is a phenomenal exercise for jiu-jitsu because it really does work your core. It really does work your shoulders.

It really does work your legs. It works everything. And it's not bench and tries. It's not, you know, doing chest and biceps. Show muscles, if you will. Yeah. It's not sexy and it's not fun either. Like when you're doing it, it's a grueling type of workout.

But I think those and like gorilla cleans where you have like, you know, those and like gorilla cleans where you have like you know one in each side uh clean press squats and doing uh reverse uh you know lunges and then reverse backward lunges and things where you're forcing yourself to balance out that weight while you're you're moving i think those are probably some of the best exercises for jiu-itsu. And then another thing that's really good for jujitsu is yoga. Yoga is phenomenal for jujitsu. It really is because it forces you to be able to hold positions and breathe and control your body and control your breath in those positions. And also you maintain flexibility and strength,

especially like around the joints surrounding and like with your knee joints when you're standing on one leg balancing. You find it helps with recovery? Yeah, I think it helps recovery. I think it helps keep your body limber too, which I think is very important in jiu-jitsu because there's always positions where having a little bit more flexibility

is very beneficial. Like some of the best jiu-jitsu guys are very flexible. Like Hicks and Gracie famously was very into yoga when he was young. There's many things that separated him from other people, but I think one of them was his physicality. Yeah, I've never met the guy. The movie Choke is unbelievable,

where it goes through his whole... Oh my God, it's the best. Choke is the best. He was one of a kind for sure, though. It seems like they broke the mold with that guy a little bit. There was some natural talent built in there with also a benefit of having, you know, Gracie as your last name and being born into that. But, God damn.

He was a – No, he was something special. Do you get to train much anymore? Not right now. But I'm getting over some injuries. I'm getting over some knee injuries. I think I'll be able to train soon again. Do you do mostly gi or no gi?

Mostly no gi these days, but I'm not averse to doing the gi. If I decide to – I'd like to do both coming back again. Do you have a full spat collection? Oh, yeah. I got all that stuff. I got rash guards. Do they match? I got all that stuff. I got rash guards. Do they match? I have some that match.

I have some from you. You sent me some rash guards. I did. I got some more being made right now. Oh, yeah? Origin. Shout out to Pete and Jocko. So I went to their camp, their immersion camp.

Is that in Maine? It is in Maine. It's literally adult jiu-jitsu camp. And I say that because you're staying at a campground in like a cabin in a bunk bed and you just go do jujitsu we did 21 sessions over i think it was five days with an open mat after i i don't there's only one no gi class per week where i train but we'll just pop the gi off uh the gi top off the kimono top off, and you can do that. So the point I'm getting to is I was unprepared for the level of enthusiasm that no-gi players have for their outfits.

Holy fucking shit. So most of your training you do gi. Yeah, but I'll pop the top off and roll no-gi. But I have a rash guard top like the ones that I sent you. But you used gi bottoms. Yeah. Or occasionally I'll go to a no-gi class and throw on a pair of board shorts. And nothing against it whatsoever.

The vast majority of the classes where I train that I can go to with my time schedule are gi. So I roll to this no-gi class at the immersion camp, which anybody who's in the jiu-jitsu world should absolutely go. I have it like blocked off on my calendar until the end of time because it's amazing. What time of year is it? It's the last week in August, I believe. I roll in there, and there are grown men in spats and rash guards that are like unicorns, like prancing off into the sunset. There was a dude in a full Deadpool outfit,

from bottom to top. Nice. I was completely shocked at the amount. Bottom to top, like his face thing? Fucking straight. No, he didn't have the thing that came over the head. That would actually- That would be the shit.

It would have been the shit, but also a little bit scary. These people must spend an inordinate amount of time, like, does this spats, Do they go with this top? It was un-fucking-believable. And then there was also people there who, I don't know your rule on this, but I say there has to be a minimum of four layers. There has to be spats or boxers and a pair of shorts between your dick and my dick. What about a cup?

That could be fine. That's personal. Do you roll with a cup on? No. Oh, you should roll with a cup that could be fun there could be that's that's personal over the cup on no oh you should roll the cup on uh okay I mean I'll give it a try you the reason being is I got need in the dick once and after I got out and I went into the locker room and my jockstrap was filled with blood I was like oh no and so I looked for a cut and then i realized the blood was coming out of the tip of my dick which means there was damage inside trauma for my dick yeah so that was the last day i rolled without a cup but people need to they need to grasp this

four-layer principle because there were people at the origin camp you know they make boxers that you're supposed to wear under your other shit. And there were a handful of people out there in the no-gi session. Just boxers. Straight boxers. With the cock flying free. One layer. One unacceptable fucking layer between their dick and every part of my body. Just a thin piece of cloth.

I mean, I don't need to know that much about people. Yeah, I don't need to know that either. But I was shocked. I couldn't believe the ensembles in the wardrobe of the Nogi players. I actually was relatively impressed. The amount of money that it would take and time to put those outfits together. At Tenth Planet, we have a wide array of designs. There's a lot of pretty dope 10th planet jiu-jitsu

rash guard selections. Yeah, there was dragons out there. Like I said, there was unicorns, there was sunsets and sunrises. Skulls and shit. Skulls were everywhere. It's like mandatory, actually. Like blue belt and above, it had to be a skull. But that camp was awesome. I left that with my eyes

pretty open as to what... There's just so many different levels. So who was teaching these camps? So Pete obviously is one of the co-founders of Origin. Dedeco was there. Alexei was there. Liborio was there. Jocko was there.

Dean Lister. Ricardo Liborio? Yes. Oh, nice. He is one of the nicest men I've ever met in my entire life. Oh, he's a great guy. Phenomenal. Jocko and Dean were there. Oh, nice. He is one of the nicest men I've ever met. Oh, he's a great guy. Phenomenal. Jocko and Dean were there. Echo was there. Leah was teaching there. They had another woman come in. It was really diverse. And then they would split. They would go different experience

levels and it would alternate from, I mean, top position, bottom position, sweeps, escapes, submissions. It was really cool. It was a lot. I mean, it was a fire hose for sure. And I'm glad I went into it with at least a little bit of experience so I could understand, A, what they're talking about and at least try it. But I would recommend anybody who's into jiu-jitsu go for sure. And it was a week long? Well, you don't have to do a week.

I think they break it up into like a portion A and a portion B. We went for portion A and b and i'm glad that we did nice so you stay there you eat there the whole deal it's literally a summer camp i'm not joking it's adult it's adult summer camp so you have to sleep in bunks um i think there may be other options i don't know enough about it to did you sleep in a bunk i slept in a bed it was a sink it was like a queen size bed And there's room for a bunch of dudes that are sleeping in beds? Pete hooked us up because I had a good friend of mine and his girlfriend go out there, and I went out there with my girlfriend as well, so we had our own cabins.

Is Pete from Maine? Is that what the deal is, where Origin is located up there? I think he is. It's cold as fuck up there in the winter, bro. I mean, he wears a Canadian tuxedo in the middle of winter up there. I feel like he has to be from Maine with that outfit. Denim head to toe, which I'm pretty sure doesn't conduct body heat well. You see these fucking truckers that are still camped out in Ottawa in Canada right now?

It's like 20 below zero, and they have everything clogged up with their trucks up there. And Trudeau is now hiding in America apparently. No way. Yeah, yeah. Apparently he escaped Canada. I don't know. Now whether or not he made it to America, whether or not that's true, I think he's in an undisclosed location

because they're worried about threats of violence from these truck drivers. I don't feel like what they're threatening is violence. I think they're trying to have... Yeah, I haven't seen any threats of violence. But maybe they're privy to things that we don't know. I mean, I'm sure if you get a large enough group of people together, there's going to be some Wahoos in there. But to me, and I'm not following it incredibly closely,

it seems like people expressing their opinion on the situation that they're living through. Yeah. And you had Jocko on recently, and he was talking about leadership through imposing your will. I could not agree with him more. That is a long-term recipe for absolute disaster.

And you see it in the States, where people are like, oh, okay, cool. That's your mandate? Get fucked. It only works for so long. Well, it's a strange time where people don't know exactly how to handle things and people have different strategies for handling things. And a lot of times when they want to implement these strategies, you know, they're doing so against the will of the people and they think they're doing it for the people's own good.

And some people are not buying that shit, especially when it comes to Canada, which has been really rough in terms of like locking down businesses. And like what's going on right now in Montreal, they have a 10 p.m. curfew, which is just wild. Like, why do you have a curfew? Like what happens after 10? Like they're shutting down restaurants and bars and in parts of Canada where they are already like barely staying open. They were already barely alive and they're not giving these people the options. It's like, it's been pretty clear up to this point that all these lockdowns don't work. They don't stop the spread.

They don't. It's just, or at best the, the will be the correct term at best. The impact is measured in very, very small numbers. Yeah. Like fractions of a a percent i was reading something about that today it's uh do you really think that the people are doing it or that the people who are making the decisions are doing it for the good of the people i think in certain cases they're doing it because it's the optics

they're doing it because it makes it seem like they're doing something. I think that's the case. And then if you want to hit this conspiratorial angle, then you can put on your tinfoil hat and we can keep going. Because the people that are conspiratorial about this, and I don't subscribe to this, but I've listened to several compelling arguments in that way, that's where things get really, that'll keep you up at

night. For the mandates and the lockdown? Yeah, the mandates and the lockdowns and people worried about- What's the theory about it? That eventually they're going to implement some sort of a social credit score system that goes along with vaccine passports and that these things are what they're angling towards. And that by slowly, incrementally moving in this direction, they're going to apply these new methods to control the population. You know, what's going on in China? Have you ever paid attention to their social credit score system? No.

It's pretty fucking wild. They can stop you from buying a train ticket they can stop you from buying certain goods like say maybe you want to buy a car if your social credit does not align with uh you know what what's acceptable for in order for you to purchase it it doesn't matter if you have the money to do so they can see this is where it could get wild if if so i mean and this is not happening nor is it suggested to happen in the united states i'm just saying like this is what happens in china if you step out of line if you protest some of the things the government's doing if you speak openly and critically about certain aspects of society. They can put a hit on your social

credit. Which limits what you can do? It limits what you can do. It limits where you can go. It limits what you can buy. Because essentially, the idea is that they'll be able to influence what you say and what you do, because you won't want to get a hit on your social credit because that'll keep you from being able to go on vacation. It'll keep you from being able to buy a car. It'll keep you from being able to buy things. on Yahoo where they were talking about people allowing certain organizations certain government organizations access to your browser history and the incentive would be maybe you could qualify for more credit if they had access to your browser history first off for people listening the government has

full access to your browser history this is a piece I saw on Shepard Smith's show the other day. This was pretty recently. People in China growing frustrated. So I remember they talk about in here, which I guess we can play it if you want to. There is a way that if someone goes to CVS, their version of a pharmacy, and buys something that says they have a cough or they have a temperature, it goes through the system into their phone.

A message pops up, which I think they sort of show here in a second, that says you can't continue to go places until you now have passed a COVID test. It says you're now- Yeah, that's- Oh, wow. So they're tracking you through your activity.

It's because they bought something in a store. Yeah. Because you bought Tylenol or you bought- Right, yeah. Here's the stuff that pops up on their phone. And this was newer information than that other piece that came out like a year ago? This is China scrambling to control COVID-19 outbreaks

ahead of the Beijing Olympics, which kind of makes sense because they kind of have to do that. Yeah, that's all starting this week. I don't know exactly what's going on in these videos, but this was part of this piece that popped up along with all the stuff they were talking about that day. Well, that's, I mean, they have a lot of different methods to control their population.

That's just one of them. How do you think the pandemic ends? I think it should end with this Omicron, hopefully, if there's not like another strain that comes out afterwards. My concern is that we never go back to normal that we're in like sort of like do you remember the days before the Patriot Act do you remember the days before TSA you remember the days were like now we've just accepted those things like we've accepted TSA you have to take your shoes off that's part of the problem like you know everybody

remembers the guy was his name Richard whatever the fuck his name was trying to blow his shoes up like that one fuckhead ruined it for everybody now everybody has to take their shoes off at the airport like it's just things they change and then they never go back so that's where I can buy into a little bit not the conspiratorial narrative but the incremental moving of behavior I've been shocked at how malleable people are. Yeah, very much so. And how willing they are. Well, and I think the reason is, I think that people don't realize how powerful fear is.

Yeah. If you can keep people scared, you can do damn near anything that you want to to them. Yes, it's true. The shoe bomber, and not to say that the TSA or any of that is conspiratorial, but do you remember when they used to color code the days after 9-11? Yeah, the warning. Scaring the fuck out of people. It's orange, threat orange.

And what could come with that is, hey, don't do this today because here's the threat level. And people get scared and they get very, I just don't know if they realize how susceptible they are. And now I almost think it's at a point where some people in leadership positions, it's a different kind of fear. They're now afraid of not being accepted by the party that they identify with. And I see it on both sides. And the people who are suffering is everybody who's kind of in the middle, which I suspect actually in this country is like 80 percent. I have no data to support this whatsoever. But I think more people are towards the center than towards the extreme left or right.

I would agree with that. Yeah. But now they're unwilling to change course because the fear of the pandemic may be one thing, but the fear of not being accepted by that party that they identify with. So they'll do anything. And I have nothing against masks, but hey, wear a mask at all times. Wear it in school. Wear it regardless of your age. And they're just like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

They'll do that. It's kind of shocking to me how reactive people are. It is. It's shocking how easy people bend about how it changes who they are. It changes what they do, how they view the world. It changes what they do, how they view the world. It changes what they accept and changes what it all, it also changes like what, what they think of as being normal. Like it's normal to have

a mask on now, everywhere you go for a lot of people, you know, a lot of people are like out there wearing masks outside. That makes no sense. It doesn't work at all. You know, you're walking around outside in the street with, with a. Like, that is not helping anybody. I mean, I'm a fan of people being able to do whatever the hell they want to do. But I also really appreciate people making informed decisions as opposed to just doing what they're told and not looking into it at all. Well, there's so many people that are wearing their masks. It's almost like they have them on as a chin strap, and yet they still have them on.

They just kind of have them down here, and they're just wandering around. It's like we've kind of fallen into this weird zone of as long as you have it. I was in Vegas over New Year's at a jiu-jitsu camp. Another jiu-jitsu camp? Look at you. I'm going to Costa Rica this month. You're going to a jiu-jitsu camp and not a jiu-jitsu camp look at you i'm going to costa rica camper this month you're going to jiu-jitsu camp in costa rica yeah who's putting that on henry akins oh no shit who is a hickson gracie black belt um and when you roll with him it feels like you're being beaten

with this table it's fucking gnarly but we're in vegas and everybody in the casino had to have a mask no problem whatsoever. Put the mask on. And as you're walking through the one-armed bandits and all the other stuff, it is – would be the polite way to say this. Morbidly obese individuals with a fucking redneck guzzler in the cup holder. Mask down. Not everybody, of course, but plenty of this. Cigarette. mask down not everybody of course but plenty of this cigarette and all the warnings everywhere

in the casino they're about covet 19 it's like what what are we doing and hey i've had covet twice i'm not saying it's not real i have family members and people that i know who are going through right now i totally get that but goddamn yeah there's a little bit of uh there's a little bit of fantasy, I think, going on. And I do worry about the yardstick being moved a little bit at a time. You mentioned the Patriot Act. I'm not against the Patriot Act, but I wonder how many people realize how much of their privacy they lost with the Patriot Act. And I'd be interested for them to do a little bit of research and realize they never got any of it back.

No. So once it goes, it getting that back doesn't have, it's not going to happen. Yeah. That's the real concern. The real concern is that decisions that you make right now that you think are good short term, you have to look at the consequences long term. I remember there was a discussion during the Obama administration about the indefinite detention. It was about- In Guantanamo?

No, it wasn't just Guantanamo. I forget what the act was that they were trying to pass. But this idea that they didn't necessarily need the same, the same protections of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights were not gonna apply if they could somehow or another decide that you were a target that was worthy. I forget what the parameters were. But what I forget, I forget what the parameters were. What I forget, I forget what it was called, but what I do remember was that

one of the things they were saying was that this is not something that we would ever use. I'm like, well, then why do you have it? Because if it's not something you would use, is this what it is? Yeah, I heard it. Defense authorization. Okay. Minus indefinite detention ban. That's right. The NDAA. That's this what it is yeah i heard it defense authorization okay minus

indefinite detention ban that's right the ndaa that's exactly what it was so the ndaa still allows indefinite detention of american citizens by the military but president obama says his administration won't use this power that's exactly it so like that just that alone indefinite yeah indefinite means the rest of your life. Indefinite doesn't mean a week. It doesn't mean a year. It doesn't mean an hour. It could mean forever.

It could mean whatever. Indefinite. I wonder, so that was signed in 2013. I wonder if it still continues today. So that was exactly, thanks for pulling that up, Jamie, the NDAA. But he said that his administration would not use this power. And put that back, please, the actual quote. I want to clarify that my administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens, Obama wrote.

Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values values as a nation so that the problem with that is it's if Obama didn't use it and wouldn't use it that's great but now it's on the books for Trump now it's on the books or whoever might be in that set I'm sure I'm sure he's after him yeah I'm sure uh obama trump yeah yeah but i mean and then who's after trump i mean like what if we get a real fucking loon in there what if we get a guy who's so crazy that it makes us long for trump like that all we'd have to do is get attacked all we would have to do is have like a real hot war on our hands in the united states like a real attack, Chicago gets blown up, and we could have a fucking, we could have a crazy situation.

And that's when our rights and our laws are critical. And having something like that, the NDAA, freak people out. And having someone like Obama, which I don't think Obama would use that, but have him say we would not use that. Well, don't have it then. Yeah, I'm sure it came with an expiration date, but I'd be curious if it got pushed forward. Yeah, I don't think that stuff lasts forever. I'm not a policy expert by any stretch.

I think as long as there's a war on terror. Yeah, but when has there not been? Yeah, exactly. Just because they started calling it in the last 20 years doesn't mean we haven't had enemies all over the world. People forget that too. They think because we're not actively involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, which, you know, we still have people in Iraq. Yeah. I think the last stat I saw, we have, you know, a presence in about 140 countries, just even in the special operations world.

Like the war on terror is not over by any stretch of the imagination, nor do I think it will ever be. Right. It seems like an indefinite war, indefinite whatever you want to call it, conflict. I mean, it's always going to be a strategy that certain states use to try to implement their goals. You're going to have terror.

You're going to have terrorist attacks. And when we're looking at this gigantic world of resources and of conflicts and the idea of a time in the future where there's no war, no conflict, that's one of the most depressing things about being a person. Like there's no, if you had a bet, what is the gamble? What are the odds that there's going to come a day where there's no war? I would say 0%. I mean, the most, the most accurate thing you could look at would be the rear view mirror on that. And I am not an expert in humanity or the history of humans, but I don't think there has been a stretch of time in

the history of humans where there not has not been conflict or fighting, which at least escalated to war. Probably smaller scale as we were evolving and society was growing. But I can't think of a single period of time. No, I don't think there is. The only thing that I think would save us is alien intervention. Or all the fucking nukes would fly instantly as soon as that happened. We're all dead. Yeah.

Come back again in 100 million years and see what's left and what starts over again. Yeah. The real scary thing is like if all the nukes flew, it wouldn't just be all the people die. It would be so much life dies that whatever is left, the amount of time that it would take to evolve back into a position

where we could have advanced intelligent life again. And I say we, that's the loosest use of the word we. With the molecules of your body that remain in the atmosphere somewhere? Yeah, it's not really going to be us. And what kind of life, I mean, if you go back and look at the history of Earth and life on Earth,

you know, Earth is, what, 4-point-something billion years old, right? Probably depends on who you ask. And intelligent life is basically limited to the last couple of hundred thousand years. And out of that intelligent life, there's only one species that has the capability of space travel um you know electronics manipulating its environment so just one i mean it could easily be that that one species didn't exist like there was that one was it indonesia we've talked about this recently where there was a super volcano eruption like 70 000 years ago that brought the entire human race down to a few thousand people. Really?

Yeah. Just because of what the eruption did to the atmosphere and changed living conditions? It creates like a nuclear winter and essentially wipes out – look at this. Toba. Yeah, Toba. So 75 – well, it's in another language. So When what year was that? 75,000 years ago. Yeah

Well just Google the Toba eruption in Indonesia But it was a massive super volcano and it brought the entire human race down to a very small number. Well, it could have killed us all. And if it did kill us all, there would literally be no humans. Yeah, didn't it, right? 74,000 years ago? Yeah, there it is. I don't know what year that is.

Does it say? Wow, the volume compared to almost 3 million Empire State Buildings. Holy fuck. Look at this. The explosion of the Toba Super Volcano, located on the modern island of Sumatra some 74,000 years ago, was Earth's largest volcanic eruption in the past 28 million years. Parts of Indonesia, India, and the Indian Ocean

were covered by 15 centimeters, 6 inches of volcanic debris, an estimated 1,700 cubic miles of rock, a volume comparable to almost 3 million Empire State Buildings erupted, forming a crater lake visible even from space. So that brought the entire human race down to a few thousand people. See if it says how many people in that article. How could they even know? I mean, that would obviously be a wild estimate.

I don't know. I think they did it based on the genome. Like, I think they just tried to figure out, like, where people emanated from. And that's a good question. It is a question. Oh, a few a few thousand survivors okay here it is genetic evidence there it is indicates a collapse in human population around 74,000 years ago with all modern humans descending from a few thousand survivors according to the Toba catastrophe theory most humans in Europe and Asia didn't make it as the climate and environment suddenly changed in the aftermath of the Toba eruption,

and only a small group with a limited genetic variability survived by chance in Africa. But archaeological and paleoclimate records don't seem to fit this theory. Oh, well, what the fuck is that, man? Sounds like it was so long ago that nobody has a goddamn idea. Yeah, but they do know that that super volcano did erupt, and they do know that it almost wiped out the entire race. And if that happened and it did kill everybody, there'd be no people here.

So imagine all the shit that we have. This is a blink of an eye ago, 74,000 years ago in terms of the entire history of the Earth. It didn't have to happen. So if we do nuke each other this might be it like for all intelligent life ever that could be it for our little marble yeah flying around in space marble is so delicate it's so are the people on it unfortunately delicate speaking of delicate how the hell are you doing managing all this Spotify chatter? I'm great.

That I'm hearing. You know what I appreciate? Well, actually, I'm not going to say I'm going to appreciate about the Spotify chatter. Very often when they post a picture of you, when they're like yelling at you, you're wearing that black cleared hot shirt. I love it. It's like 75% of the time. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. You wore to UFC like weigh-in or something like that and they pick that picture all right man I'm like that's that's cool yeah I'm

good with that yeah uh it's been good stay offline ignore it and everything seems okay there's nothing much I could do you know if I engaged with all of it, you know, I put out a video a couple of days ago. Yeah, I saw it. I thought it was good. Thank you. You know, other than that, not much I could do. I also think that people are smart enough to look at complex situations and come to their own conclusions. I dislike the idea of robbing people of their chance

to make an educated choice or decision. I think so too. I agree with that. And I think that when you're hearing it from people that are losing the information attention game, like people like CNN, when they're calling for other networks or other shows or other programs to be censored or

other programs to be limited it's like just do better like you guys should be better at what you're doing more people should be paying attention to you than are like why aren't they well first of all it's the format like there's this format of seven minutes or whatever it is and then commercial it's rough you got it only an hour you're only on tv at you know 6 p.m at night it is and then commercial. It's rough. You got only an hour. You're only on TV at 6 p.m. at night to 7, and then there's another show at 7 to 8. That is antiquated. That old format is so limited. Obviously, there's nothing else they can do, right?

They're on cable. They have a time slot. But that format of time slots, it has a very hard time competing with the open-ended format of an internet streaming show. I'm assuming you've done live TV interviews remotely too where you're staring at the blank lens. Oh, terrible. There's a delay. There's a delay and you have approximately 30 seconds to unpack a very complicated subject. Also, you don't feel comfortable staring at a fucking camera like that.

It's like everything is stacked against normal discourse. Everything. Everything is stacked against you being comfortable. Those shows are just not good. And CNN has started to do, they're going to do a CNN Plus thing where they have a a streaming like an app

and I think you have to pay for it. Do you have to pay for CNN Plus? Is it just additional content? They're going to have like talk shows. Like Don Lemon's going to have a talk show with an audience. They're going to do shit like that. Fuck, when was the last time you watched a talk show? They're terrible.

I mean, for me, it's measured in years. Maybe decades since I watched a talk show. I mean, I watched Bill Maher measured in years, maybe decades since I watched a talk show. I mean, I watched Bill Maher. I watched that. Okay, I actually have watched some clips of that. But that's as different, that's as close to being an internet show, you know, because it's on HBO.

And so it's uncensored. And other than his monologue too, he's really having conversations with people at the table. Still time constrained for sure, but. They do jump all over each other though like yeah, and you know when you have I? Whenever I do a podcast with three people it's hard if it was you and one other guy there It's difficult to get a flow Because like I know when you're about to say something and I back off and you know I'm listening to you

And then I talk and we're trying to like dance when there's three people It's harder to dance when there's four people that you don't even know and you know you this limited amount of time it's like and people have these like planned out rants that they want to go on and so and everyone's trying to go viral it's hard yeah it's not good how would you pick the guests that would sit there on the opposing side of those arguments? For like Peter McCullough? Mm-hmm.

You'd be able to find them online. There's some very intelligent, very bold doctors. There's a guy named Vinay Prasad that I actually tweeted one of his articles that was critical of, I think it was Malone. It was Malone or McCullough. I forget which guy guy it might have been both but uh he would work really well there's just quite a few of these guys that are like really highly educated doctors that have differing perspectives but they're more they're more fact-based than narrative-based because there's some certain people that are just they they follow whatever the projected narrative is like whatever the government's projecting whatever the the uh cdc is projecting the world health organization they're saying exactly what those people are

saying yeah even when those things turn out to be incorrect right oh and then they seem to be unwilling to admit the error of their ways they're just in lockstep again it's people are afraid of not being able to identify with whatever their tribe may be. That's a problem with people too with these networks is that they don't seem human because they don't admit when they're wrong

and they don't admit when they're disseminating propaganda or where they're just bullshitting. Like with me, with that whole horse dewormer thing. I like the filter that they put on you though. It was really good. It made me hot, right?

Like the color of whatever's inside of that green behind you, like pasty. They did a fact check, one of those news things that did a fact check. They said it's incorrect. Like, bullshit. You can see it for yourself. Don't fucking lie. That's a lie. The fact check is a lie.

But who's fact checking the fact checkers and who would who's paying the fact checkers like what you're not unbiased like what are you doing like what is a fact check says who yeah says you how'd you come to that conclusion if just that alone that CNN didn't put a filter on my face shut the fuck up and when I put it up on my Instagram, like so many people were mad. Side-by-side comparison, if you will. Yeah, I mean, it's like so there. It's so obvious.

It's such a dumb thing to do. Well, it's part of the problem too, because if you consistently tell people that what they're seeing is not what they're seeing and what they're hearing is not what they're hearing. Yeah, that's gaslighting. Well, how, so if you knew somebody, a friend of yours who consistently just told you

that, no, your eyes are wrong and your ears are wrong, how long would it be before you completely tune that person out? Yeah. And that's, I think a lot of what's happening with both sides. I mean, I try to stay out of left and right arguments because I don't know if I've ever felt less represented by the representatives of our government right now. I'm fucking lost in this middle ground. It's like, can I have a little bit on this side and also a little bit on this side? And there's also this lost art I wish people would accept. And that is the ability to not have a fucking opinion about something. You don't have to explode and be passionate about everything.

Right. Like space travel. Right. I don't know anything about space travel. I love the idea, but I'm not like calling you up and be like, hey, Joe, can you hook me up with Elon's digits? Because I really need to talk to him about the paint on the side of his rockets. Like, no. Like, I don't have an opinion on it.

I like the idea of it, but I'm not going to be passionate. I think it's okay to be like that. Oh, yeah. It should be. Yeah. There's a lot of subjects where you should be like that. Yeah. All of them for me, except for probably like three, I actually have an educated opinion on. Yeah. There's not a lot of subjects where I should be like that yeah all of them for me except for probably like three i

actually have an educated opinion on yeah there's not a lot of subjects where i'll go stop you don't know what the fuck you're talking about mma i'll give you you'll stop some people i'll stop some people yeah there's been a few times a few notable because people talk crazy and i'm like listen you can't talk crazy about this yeah like and and i'm i am very passionate about defending mma fighters defending their their courage defending what is happening in an actual fight you know when someone will say like oh they quit or they lay down or they didn't show up today like stop you don't know what you're talking about yeah like do you like there's so much going on here get out there for 20 minutes yourself buddy and can we talk for a second about francis and

gano doing jujitsu isn't that wild whole first i was scared of him before because if he hits you you're going to die bro his leg was destroyed going into that fight he had a totally torn mcl his acl are you serious yeah oh is he needs surgery. Oh, is that because he had... Mm-hmm, knee sleeves. Somebody was asking me about that. He needs surgery. Does the opponent have to agree to let him wear those? No, no. We were in California, and in California, it's legal to have knee sleeves on.

There are some jurisdictions where they'll let you tape your ankles. Some commissions... I'm going to cough again. Some commissions will let you tape your ankles. Some commissions, I'm going to cough again. Some commissions will let you tape your ankles. Some won't. There's all sorts of different rules when it comes to MMA, unfortunately.

There's the unified rules of MMA. There's the changed unified rules that they've changed some of the parameters of what constitutes a downed opponent. Then some places will let you tape your ankles. Some places won't. There there's a lot going on he did the smart move though both knees yeah so you don't know yeah you don't you don't put tape on like just two fingers you're like i'm fine no what do you remember sakuraba sakuraba sakuraba's knees were so fucked that

he would tape all the way up halfway up his thigh where his knees were like mummified his how much flexion and extension did he have very little very little man when you would see sakuraba when he fought like especially later in his career his knees were the craziest thing see if you find a video of sakuraba what is oh. Look how taped up his knees are. I mean, it's like halfway up his thigh and halfway down to his ankle. Dude, when Francis picked up that guy mid-kick and they both left the ground and he came down, all I could think of in my head while watching that was imagining, like in a cartoon, the ghost of my body just floating up. I mean, what does he weigh

well he weighed in at 257 which but how tall is he he's six five i believe that's dudley tall yeah yeah dudley tall uh that's the two of them slamming down to the ground then that's again where my ghost would not look at the faces in the back or look at that dude with his mouth open look at the girl too the girl on the at that dude with his mouth open. Look at the girl, too. The girl on the left, right underneath his knee. Oh, yeah. Right there. Every single face.

Everybody's like, holy shit. Yeah. Well, that was his best option to win that fight, given the fact that he was injured. I had no idea that he was injured. It was significant. He wasn't talking about that before, though, was he? Well, we knew about it. Okay. We had heard about it. There was a rumor going around

we'd heard about it. I had not talked to his coaches, so I didn't know exactly the extent of the injury, and I found out afterwards. And I actually connected one of his coaches with Ways to Well, which is a company that I use here in Austin for stem cells. But he had significant tears in his knee, to the point where they were really considering not fighting. Oh, damn. Yeah. But he still fought and he still won. It was beautiful.

A man that size? So he weighed in at 257. What do you think he stepped in the ring at? Well, DC thinks he's about 270, because he looked so much bigger than Cyril Gaughan. Because Cyril Gaugh gone was 247 which means cyril gone didn't have to lose any weight that he just he weighed in his walk around right but francis oftentimes is over the 265 pound limit so when he goes to weigh in like he'll just not

eat very much like the day before under it dip under it and then weigh himself in. And then afterwards, he'll rehydrate and carb up. So the day of the fight, he looked massive. I mean, he was huge. Yeah, he looked huge. But he moved beautifully. Well, especially for a guy with a fucked knee. Yeah, I had no idea. I mean, you also have to take into consideration what kind of an impact did that have on his training in terms of his cardio, like his cardio output?

Like, what was he able to do? And, you know, how was that going to affect the way he fought and the pace that he was able to fight at? All I'll say is Francis Ngannou is one of the best arguments for carrying a gun on the face of the planet. Because if you run into that dude in an alleyway, you're going to die. Yeah, you're not going to hurt him. No. Yeah. I mean, Stipe landed some big shots on you're not going to hurt him. No. Yeah. I mean, Stipe landed some big shots on him.

No. Didn't even ding him. That's why tools exist. Sometimes you need to have tools. Yeah. What's interesting is that guy evolving his game and then incorporating wrestling and incorporating jiu-jitsu.

And I'm really curious to see what he decides to do in the future. If he decides to box or if he decides to stay with the UFC. Because part of me wants to see him box. I mean, I don't want to see him box because I don't love seeing him fight in MMA. I love seeing him fight in MMA. But I want to see him box because I want to see him get a giant chunk of money, like a Conor McGregor- style Floyd Mayweather chunk of money because when Conor fought Floyd Mayweather made a hundred million dollars that's I don't

believe that's bad for an evening's work I think that's nice I would love to see that like if if you know if he fought Tyson Fury how much money would they be able to get I know nothing about that What do you think they'd be able to demand that much? I? Don't know is it off the pay-per-view or what they could sell yeah, yeah, it's off the pay-per-view It's off what they could say I mean obviously you'd have to it would have to be very marketable and Tyson Fury's very marketable and Francis and Ghana's very marketable Especially him as a UFC heavyweight champion

going up to fight in boxing. And it would be weird to see Tyson Fury like a legit five inches taller than Francis Ngannou because that's what he would be. Oh, yeah. Tyson Fury is 6'9". I think Francis is 6'4", 6'5". I'm not sure.

How tall is Francis? Is he 6'4", 6'5". I'm not sure. How tall is Francis? Is he 6'4", 6'5"? But the big fight in MMA is Jon Jones. So if they- Does he fight at that same weight? Jon Jones is fighting heavyweight now. Is there a weight class above the 265? There is, but the UFC has never implemented it.

It's just super heavyweight. There's just not boys out there big enough to. I mean, I guess there's probably a few, but there's not enough where they felt the need to have an over 265-pound weight class. It is kind of weird, though, that there's a weight limit on heavyweight. Huh. Because you would think heavyweight would just be the biggest person you had. That's what I figured.

I figured at that level it would kind of come as you are. I mean, it could be one day there you know one day there could be a guy who is so compelling like maybe there's some like gigantic record-rolling wrestler like Carellon like Carellon in his prime I think was like 290 pounds something bigger than that. Yeah. If you did

have a guy that big that was marketable I could see the UFC implementing a super heavyweight division. But it's available. I mean, it's something that the commissions have sanctioned. What were you doing out at the old John Wick Academy recently? Just learning how to shoot people.

Were you, though? Was I? I'm asking you. I don't know. What were you up to? You seem to be shooting as fast as humanly possible. I'm shooting targets. Bang, bang, bang, bang. Yeah, I know. Yeah. All right. I'm shooting. Okay. What are you up to seem to be shooting as fast as humanly possible? I'm shooting targets bang bang bang bang. Yeah, no Yeah, all right. Okay. What do you at wait?

Asking me that way every time I see somebody post a video from there They're shooting as fast as humanly possible, which yes, there's nothing wrong with that. But accuracy is final not speed. Yes Yeah, no, he loves making videos like Taryn from Taryn tactical. That's what it's called. I couldn't remember. He likes making these videos of you running through these courses and implementing proper technique with speed and timing you. Yeah. It's not the best way to be accurate. Yeah. I'm just curious. But you do accuracy stuff too. But when he makes videos, he wants to make these videos very fun. Yeah.

Like for people to look at. I've never been there i was just curious i saw you out there just running and gunning full speed yeah i see you and callan out there yeah callan goes out there all the time he sucks at shooting i tell him that i post i have that tactical asshole page and he's just the cashmere cunt because he's always out there in a cashmere shirt shooting a fucking pistol carbine, which, again, is like an MP5. Right. It's like, make your mind up.

You know, it's... Yeah. Like I said, I've never been there. It's shooting videos online. I was just trying to figure out what you guys are up to. Well, a lot of what they do is those competitions, you know, where they run a course. Yep, shot timer courses.

Mm-hmm, yeah. so he's really into that and he's really into training people for films you know so like he trained Keanu Reeves famously and Halle Berry and a lot of other people for films and Kevin Hart's been there and a bunch of other you know Michael P Jordan's been there. Michael B. Jordan. B, right? Sorry. You know, the guy from, well, Creed. He's been in everything. But those people that want to learn how to look like Billy Badass, they go to Terran Tactical. All right.

Fair enough. You can mock it. Go ahead. I'm not trying to mock it. You got to smile. There's a mocking smile. I know you, Andy Stump. Because I'm thinking of Brian. Oh.

So why does Brian suck? Tell me why Brian sucks. I would have to go back and look at some of the videos that he is willingly posting, so I feel I have full license to mock. What's wrong with the way he does it? How much more does he suck than me? I have to do a side-by-side comparison. You post less videos than he does.

Is that the problem? He gives you too much to study. It's really hard to tell. I mean, the only thing you can really tell on the videos is how, you know, stance, grip, how you're managing your reach coil and how you're controlling your trigger. He does all those poorly. And I would say that to him if he was sitting right here. What do I do wrong?

I'd have to look at him again. I'm not necessarily saying you're doing anything wrong. That's why I was asking you what you're doing out there. So we would do speed runs all the time. Don't get me wrong. The number one tool to get somebody to unwind on a pistol range is that fucking shot timer. I have watched guys who are so incredibly competent shooting and you get them into a competition setting. There's like, and they're just like, eee,

and they're just putting magazines in their pistols backwards, which is amazing. I totally support it. Dropping shit. I mean, it's dead man guns where you're presenting. Yeah. There's Callan. I know.

I don't have a problem with what he's doing here. I think you're wrong. That's fair. I mean, let's just look at the flared elbows. Let's look at the bunny hop. Let's look at how his hands are so in instead of actually having an extended grip on that. Look at that old man neck he's got. I know.

He's got an old man neck. The back of his neck looks like a fucking old catcher's mitt. Still on fire, just looking around, still on fire. I don't know why he keeps dropping the gun and doing that. What is that about? I'm not sure. Oh, Josh Barnett. Yeah.

Chris D'Elia. Yeah, he, Taron loves like making videos. Yeah. But that's part of his business model. I wasn't knocking it. What I was, I was knocking Brian, not necessarily the school. I was just curious. I'd be happy for you to knock it.

I like when you knock things. I'd have to go through it to actually be able to... Oh, here we go. Uh-oh. Jamie, can you go back just a sec to the very, very beginning? To watch me with my elbow out? No, I want to see if you have your American flag oriented properly. You do. Good job.

Oh, on the ear? One of the most common mistakes ever. Really? Yep. Stars always lead the way. Okay. How far away are those targets? I don't know. I'm. Okay. How far away are those targets? I don't know. I'm not measuring.

How far do they look to you? Five to seven yards. Probably something like that. What are you looking at when you're pulling the trigger? What am I looking at? I'm looking at the iron sights, the two things lining up, the front and back. The front and rear sight? Yeah.

Which one's in focus? I'm looking at the rear. It should be the front and back. The front and rear sight? Yeah. Which one's in focus? I'm looking at the rear. It should be the front. It should be front sight focus only. Oh, I mean, I don't mean the rear. I mean the one the furthest away. Yeah, so that's correct. Yeah, the front one.

Yep, if you're using an iron. Not the one near me. That would be the rears, the fork. I'm looking at the reticle, the one that has the little dot. And that's in focus and things behind it are blurry? Yes. That is completely correct. That's good.

Now, I was using a red dot for a while, but one time I went there and it fucked up on me. And I was like, ooh, that's not good. You should be able to find a red dot sight that allows you to co-witness. And what that means is... Yes. Yeah, and so that way...

Even if it fucks up. Even if it fucks up. And for people who carry every day, like I have a red dot on the gun that I carry. When I practice or if I were ever to draw down, I am expecting to be looking at the iron sights because if I can line that up appropriately, the red dot is going to be right there. Right. So I'm not searching for the red dot first and hoping that it's there. You start with the irons and then you can just lift or shift your focus point. Red dots are awesome. In my experience, they can make people a little bit snappy and

they can start anticipating the shot because it's just that red dot right there. And they're like, now, now. And the number one thing for a right-handed shooter is shooting down and to the left because you're just anticipating and driving it down. Isn't there a thing that's very similar to archery in that you kind of want the gun to go off in a surprise way? You don't want to like anticipate the recoil and yank. In a perfect world, I would say yes. That would be, especially when it comes to long distance marksmanship, like you're behind a sniper rifle and you want to make a really long shot, there's no room for anticipation. That should apply to both a carbine and a pistol.

long shot. There's no room for anticipation. That should apply to both a carbine and a pistol. But here's the reality, right? If it's between me and you, I'm not going to line, like if we're this distance, I'm not even going to bother aiming. I'm going to point my thumbs at you and pull the trigger as many times until the target or the threat is no longer a threat. So in theory, yes, but the situation is going to dictate how much you're actually going to need to do that in practice. But in learning it, that should always be the way that you practice it because then you can increase your speed with that. And then it'll allow you to, as you try to go faster and faster or the targets are closer and closer, you can deviate from that just a little bit. I mean, you don't need a surprise break for something that's three to five yards away. Yeah. So you're dealing with something,

if you're talking about a surprise break, you're just looking for like optimal technique. Yep. So to define a surprise break, I'm not saying the rifle or pistol surprises you. They're like, oh my God, it went off. No, you're pulling the trigger. It's the same as a silverback, put it into archery terms, right? You're pulling, you're pulling, you're pulling, you know, because your thumb's off the safety, you know it's going to go off. You know it's going to go off, but you don't know exactly when. Correct. So what are you focusing on?

Your sight picture. And you just let it float. And when it goes off, it goes off. That would be the perfect execution of a trigger pull or a trigger press. And again, the farther the distance, you know, the more you need to have that. Take a 1,000-yard shot and you get a little anticipation. I mean, you ain't going to hit shit. Yeah, I remember I watched a Tim Kennedy video and he was uh shooting on a pistol range and he would insert dummy rounds yep it is very telling because what ends up happening with speed

it's like boom boom boom boom boom click you're like oh yeah that only happens when there's a dummy round it's like no no that happens every time you're shooting you're compensating for your shitty technique. Right, right, right. It should be smooth, and then you go through your emergency procedures, and then you're back up and running. Well, that was the thing in the video. He was in the video. He had it on Instagram where he was pumped because he pulled the trigger, and literally his hand didn't move at all.

And he was like, whoa. That would be perfect theory and practice. That shit never happens with me. I anticipate the shit out of it. Do you? Depending on the distance. How often do you practice today? Well, in the winter months in Montana, where it was three degrees when I left this morning.

Three? Three degrees. Three balmy degrees. I was actually still rocking flip-flops well into December. Were you really? Oh, fuck yeah. Wow. You got to wait until there's like a foot of snow on the ground and then you can transition over.

When it's not the winter, I can shoot in my house. So I will. Oh, in your backyard? Yeah. My nearest neighbor is about 60 acres away. Oh, wow. So I have, I can sight in rifles. I don't do a lot of long distance shooting there, but I have some pistol targets right there.

So I will a couple times per week. And the thing is, it's not necessarily the volume. I would say it's the quality. For the last year, I don't know if you guys felt this down here, the ammo shortage was real. I would go to the sporting goods stores and there were people in line to buy like nine mil at seven o'clock in the morning. Do you think that is because so many people were buying ammo that the ammo manufacturers just couldn't keep up because of the pandemic? Because people really did freak out like during the protests and the riots. I think it's just like toilet paper. I think there was always enough stuff around to wipe your ass with. But when somebody goes to Costco

and buys a semi truck full, it limits the amount that everybody else can get. So if everybody had bought perhaps a reasonable amount, which is what happened where I live is they started limiting how many boxes you could buy because people would just come in, right? And they're just sweeping into a cart. There was an increase. You can tell that just by looking at the number of firearms applications. You have to do the background check and all that. Those numbers increase. So if there's new gun owners, they're going to be buying more ammunition. But I think the scarcity was largely artificial just due to people wildly buying probably too much. Well, I remember during the lockdowns when there was giant lines outside the gun stores in L.A.

I was like, wow. Like driving by and seeing a long line outside of a gun store was so bizarre and was spooky to people because all these people that are used to driving by that gun store and seeing nothing, and all of a sudden you see a, that sort of signals to you, shit, maybe I should get in there and get a gun. Yeah. Maybe I should get some ammo.

It could be an artificial scarcity. Also, people buy guns, you know, exercise your Second Amendment right if you want to. It's better to have the gun before you need it than be standing out in line for a 10-day wait period. Oh, yeah. But again, people make a choice on that, but the ammo shortage will make people not want to train.

And you can actually do the vast majority of the training without actually firing a round. For people who can still carry, you know, indexing, clearing fabric out of the way, practicing your draw, everything, the execution, magazine changes. You can have an awesome day of training. And obviously it depends on the experience level that you have. I could do like an hour's training and actually get a lot out of it with somewhere probably between 20 to 30 rounds.

Because I can do a lot of it dry fire, or what I'll do is I'll do one round in each magazine if I'm working manipulation or reloads. So I'm not shooting an entire magazine full. I'm focusing on the actual motor skills themselves. So there's ways you can get around it. But people are like, oh, I don't have ammo. I can't train. It's the wrong mentality. Have you ever used one of those simulators? No, but I think I know what you're talking about. We just got one and I got to remember to bring it in, but it's like a virtual reality simulator. And Jordan Peterson's security guy, Dave, gave it to me. We haven't set it up yet. Like a video with people running around and stuff? Yeah, you put a helmet on. Like VR goggles?

Yeah, complete VR goggles. And you have a weighted gun. Firearm replica probably? Right. And it's synced up to this system. And it's specifically designed to train you for you know encounters with guns obviously there's no recoil but other than that it has heft to it like a real gun is it situational based training like use of force go no-go stuff believe so I don't know I think there's a there's a lot of different programs that you can run I think it's there's more than one and I think it's designed for law enforcement, tactical people.

Like, the idea is to have an environment, virtual, where you can practice where you don't even need a range. So you'll squeeze off shots, and it'll show you, it'll register where your actual aim would be. Did you ever use that techno hunt thing in my studio? Do you remember that?

I remember it, but I know where it was, but I never used it. We're getting one over here, too. Of course you are. Of course we are. But what was interesting about that is you're shooting a real arrow at a real target, and it shows you the actual impact point. Terran Tactical has this laser setup thing where you have a screen and you have a gun that feels like a real gun, but there's obviously no recoil.

But when you're looking through the sights, it has iron sights. And when you're looking through the sights and you peel off, it registers on the screen. Where your shot would be. Yeah, some kind of a laser beam or something like that, exactly where you're hitting. So that's better than nothing. Anything is better than nothing. Anything is better than somebody Buying a gun and loading it up and having no actual idea how to use it. Yeah and carrying it around There's a lot of people out there doing that too There's a lot of people who confuse

What guns are actually capable of doing and they think that the possession of a gun somehow equates to their safety and that's not the case right so true did you see that fucking video of the guy in a car in a road rage situation out of the car shooting right through his fucking side window and then through his windshield yeah like what the fuck um i i mean i don't i don't have the words to describe that. That is the, in my opinion, which counts for absolutely nothing, videos like that are why people will go on crusades to try to strip the Second Amendment or limit people's ability to own a gun. That is completely and utterly irresponsible usage of that tool, in my opinion, which, like like i said doesn't count for shit he said i think that the other guy pulled the gun first or the other guy shot first here's a video

because it's so crazy so they're playing stupid games and winning a stupid prize so and this engagement like even right here like from a situational awareness perspective the guy's pissed off dude fucking disengage you know whatational awareness perspective, the guy's pissed off. Dude, fucking disengage. You know what I mean? Why chase the guy down in the car? Well, the guy is chasing him apparently. The guy's riding his ass and chasing him. And so here you see, because I haven't seen it before like this.

So he's got to use his thumb to press the button to get the fucking gun out. Which actually, that might be a requirement of whatever state he's in. But that's not a bad idea, you know, to have something like that. But meanwhile, he didn't even roll his window down. This is what's so crazy about this fucking guy. And he has one in the chamber already, apparently. And this guy is just totally riding his ass.

And the fact that he immediately goes to shoot out the window. Look, look at this. Holy. First off, he gets an F for technique. Emptied his whole clip, too. Joe. F.

Do not say the word clip again. No? It's a magazine. But the rappers, they say clip. Yeah, it's... So it looks like the guy, does he have a gun? He's got his arm out the window for sure. He has an arm out, who knows?

It could be a gesture. It could be, I mean, I've been known to stick my arm out the window to hand signal people before. And he immediately just starts shooting at him. I mean, we don't know. Like maybe the guy did have a gun. Hold on, let me. Imagine just shooting through your windshield like that too. Like look at this.

I mean, I've done it. Not in this situation, but. I mean, I've done it. Not in this situation, but... I mean, he's not even looking. Holy cow. So, I mean, there's a lot of things here. Think about every... So, I would be curious to hear... Jamie, does it say how many times he struck the other person's vehicle?

What does it say right there he tells his side of the story can we see him get interviewed i was in fear of my life one thousand percent he said i thought i was going to be shot and probably killed okay interesting Okay. Interesting. Oh, so he... So he threw a bottle of water at the side of his car. He said he thought he was being fired upon. Okay, the incident in question happened in June in Miami. When I hear a very loud noise, and I've heard gunshots, to me it sounded like a gunshot. I didn't want to see if I was going to be killed.

According to the arrest report report he changed lanes and cut off another driver that driver identified as began to tailgate him according to police he then slammed on his brakes police said then the guy threw a water bottle at the passenger window of his car but he didn't know what it was at the time and he thought he was being fired upon. I did what I instinctively felt was necessary. Authorities said 11 shots were fired, but no injuries were reported. When they call it stand your ground, whether you call it self-defense, he said,

Mr. Popper is not only not guilty, he is innocent and justified, said his attorney. Oh, boy. Well, the legal system will innocent and justified, said his attorney. Oh, boy. Well, the legal system will figure that out, right? Yeah. So from the perspective of the video, right? So 11 shots fired. Like there's so much stuff going on in that video, like backdrop as an example. For the rounds that didn't hit the other dude's car.

Where are they going? Where did they go? Right. Shooting through glass. Yeah. It works. go right shooting gone to other people shooting through glass yeah um it it works again so i'm gonna get that looked like a uh sub compact nine millimeter pistol that'll go through glass for sure but it doesn't like if you shoot through you're better off shooting at a distance into

glass as opposed to shooting through glass at a close distance and having it ricochet out all over the place right all over the place you could? All over the place, you could tell. And the backdrop is the biggest thing. Like every one of those rounds is going to find a home somewhere. And that is exactly, and again, the legal system can work out whether or not the guy's innocent or guilty.

I don't have an issue with that. But the discharging a firearm like that on the road, you're out of your fucking mind. And that is exactly the type of video that people will point to to try to strip those things away. Yeah. And having a round in the chamber, opinions may vary on this. I would say if you're going to carry a gun and you don't feel comfortable having a round in the chamber, you may want to consider not carrying. An unloaded gun has the same effective distance as a claw hammer.

And gross motor skills very often are going to be the first things that degrade in a violent confrontation. So depending on how you have it carried, let's say you're an appendix carrier. You're going to have to get that thing out, load around into the chamber, and then index your target. There's a lot of steps involved in that. Guns don't just actively – they don't just go off on their own so it to me when people are not comfortable with carrying with around in the chamber oftentimes it's it's oftentimes based in kind of a lack of understanding of how a firearm actually functions mmm when you're shooting through a windshield like that how much

of the impact I mean what how much of the kinetic energy bleeds off a lot yeah and but the biggest thing is is it changes the angle drastically like i said you're better off shooting back into the glass because your target is from a distance i mean even close up you're the target that you're shooting at isn't very far past the glass right he's reversing that he's shooting through glass at a target that you're shooting at isn't very far past the glass. Right. He's reversing that. He's shooting through glass at a target that is increasing the distance. Like, good luck. Yeah.

I'm going to assume that happened in Florida. It is Florida, right? Yeah, Miami. 7 a.m. 7 a.m.? Oh, fuck. Oh, my God. He says on his way to work.

Wow. Yeah. 95. 95. Jesus Christ. That's your way. He says on his way to work. Wow. Yeah. 95. Jesus Christ. Guns are a tool. You know, they're a tool designed to take life, though. And people get really, really twitchy when you define them like that because they feel like if you are, if you say that, then that somehow creates an argument for restricting them.

And I think it's a disingenuous thing to say. They are a tool that is designed to take life. It can be used to preserve and save life for sure, but they should be treated like that tool. And that to me is like as irresponsible as it gets. It didn't look responsible. Yeah. But there's another video that I saw once

where a similar situation happens on a highway and it's a similar angle. And this guy is on a highway and there's someone in the passenger seat next to him, and he just starts shooting through his windshield at this car on the highway. And you see the guy in the passenger seat freaking the fuck out because this dude is just unloading through his windshield. Yeah. Yeah, that's not the move at all.

No. No, it's not. No, the move is to decelerate, like get out of there. Decelerate, deescalate. Get out of there. There was 20 seconds of that building up. Actually, probably even more of it. You could tell he was agitated.

You could tell he was involved. Oh, there's more videos? Yeah, so I was just looking in the news. The NBC report said they had four different angles. It's really hard to tell what's going on in them just as I hit play. So other people's cars got video right here where they had Jamie they're right on that video is there in the bottom right corner the they're the two cars here so like they're in the same lane oh my god

oh so the guy literally got in the same lane with him yes there was something going on but I don't know if he fired a gun first, you can't tell. Oh, that guy got so close to him. He really did some dangerous driving there too. Fuck, man. And then he pulled over and said, you know, he called 911, according to this report, and said that I was shot at and I fired back. So he thought he was shot at because the guy threw a water bottle at him.

Right. That's what he says. But then even the, I think this is, yeah, this is the sheriff saying this average person doesn't just say, let me prepare my firearm. Let me back up my seat. Let me get a little bit of space. That's according to the sheriff. Yeah. And that's the beauty of having the legal system. They get, they get to figure all that stuff out. And I'm, I'm actually shocked that this footage exists. I'm sure it will be dissected ad nauseum inside of his court proceeding. Yeah.

So, Joe, don't do that. Don't do that. I swear to God, if I ever see a video of you doing that, you know who I would see? I could see Callan doing that. You think that's the way to do? He would probably have blanks in his gun for some reason, though. Callan is not a guy that would get into an escalated situation with his car. It's true. I actually have talked a lot of

shit about him. He's one of my favorite people. He's awesome. He's fantastic. Well now you're turning it around. Now you're back. No he's just super dangerous with a gun. Super dangerous. I love him except for when he has a gun in his hand and he also has a penchant for wearing scarves for no reason. You don't like scarves.

We saw that from the Charlie Sheen video. That one just didn't make sense. The Charlie Sheen scarf? There's pictures of me wearing those overseas too. But I was actually wrapping my face to cover the dust up. Yeah, is that the reason for those things? But isn't it like guys wear them on the range to keep brass from falling into their collar? People will tell you they wear them on the range for that.

That's not the real. What they're doing is they're aiming for the tactical chic look. That's more of an Instagram thing than a tactical thing. The tactical look. Yeah. The cargo pants at all times. Tactical fashion. There is a very distinct look that a lot of people enjoy.

I was just at the SHOT Show in Vegas. Oh, boy. Where you have seen yourself, where that look is, actually, I think it's required to attend. I have to take a piss, but I don't want to stop. So let's take a piss real quick,

and we'll come back. I drank a lot of coffee. Be right back. We up? Okay, I'm back. Thank you for indulging me. So much urine. While you went pee?

So we were talking about people dressing the part. Tactical assholes is the proper terminology for it. Yes. When did that start happening? Oh, that's a good question. It started happening much broader than military personnel on base i would say post 9-11 post 9-11 yeah really well i'm sure it was happening to a small degree before then but it kind of exploded afterwards i would say maybe with the creation of multi-cam the pattern that

many people wear on everything from flip-flops to hats, to backpacks, to Speedos, shorts, shirts, fill in the blank. And so once people started wearing it like as fashion, was that like chic? Was camo worn as fashion before nine 11 must've been right to a very limited

degree, I believe. And then it became, it got ramped up. Correct. That would be my suspicion. I have absolutely no data to support this. Right.

Well, some camo looks cool. Some camo does look cool. Tiger Stripe camo, that looks pretty dope. Tiger Stripe is one of my favorite patterns. The old MAC V-SOG Vietnam Tiger Stripe. Have you seen the new Origin pattern? Briefly, yes. Jimmy, go to Origin's page and see there.

Or you go to Cam Haynes' page. He's got it up on his page. This is the new Jocko's coming out with an all-American-made hunt line. Tiger Stripe's the way to go. Yeah. It looks Tiger Stripe-y. It's pretty dope. It's like, to me, it's like, I always liked the Under Armour Ridge Reaper pattern, and

I always liked the Tiger Stripe pattern, like the old school. Yeah. And this is kind of like a combination of the two of those things. Find it on Cam's page. He's got pictures, but nothing specifically says. Isn't there like a photo, a specific photo of the two of those things. Find it on Cam's page? He's got pictures, but not specifically. Isn't there like a photo, a specific photo of the? That's the shirt right there on the right. That is the shirt right there on the right.

But I think if you scroll down, there's a, he just, that's the pants. That's a pair of pants. That's the pants, yeah. That's it. That's pretty nice. It's always tough to tell from you with Cam until you see it in person. Right. And get it in your hand and then also take it out into the environment. Yeah. That's it nice. It's always tough to tell from you with camo until you see it in person. Right. And get it in your hand and then also take it out into the environment.

Yeah. That's it right there. Yeah. I mean, like, what does a deer see? What does an elk see? Like, what makes a camo work and not work? It's like the idea is like you want to break up the outline because they recognize movement, right? That's my understanding, yes.

Yeah. I mean, isn't it a little – I mean, they're looking at the rods and cones in their eyes I mean how the fuck do you ask an elk like hey man can you see this and like some of it seems to work good like the Sitka pattern works really good I've had the craziest animal encounters with the Sitka pattern as actually I think I've only hunted in the Sitka pattern so but it's it's been bizarre like you could see an animal look at you and then an animal look through you and then an animal look through you and then just continue on with their day.

Yeah, like what am I seeing? Yeah. But some animals, like have you ever got busted by a white-tailed deer? Yeah. They seem a lot smarter. I don't know if they're smarter or they're twitchier. They're fucking tuned in.

I think they seem to know when hunting season's going on. I think they all know when hunting season's going on, except for the axis deer and lanai, because it never stops. And they're just like, fuck it, this is my life. Right. Well, they are the most switched on animals of all time, though. But I don't know if that's tied to intelligence.

I think white tails are just a little bit more switched on than, say, well, I don't know. I don't know if muleys are less switched. Their behavior is different. And I've only been hunting for a few years, so please, everybody, take what i say as a grain of salt well i think elk are so big that they don't have to be as switched on as like say like a deer i think deer are so hunted by like mountain lions and wolves and what have you they have to be most switched on

like uh have you have you encountered a mountain lion in the wild yet? No, and I don't look forward to the day that I do. I saw a giant one this past season. Out of the Deseret, right? Mm-hmm. With my friend Colton. We were in Colton's truck, and we saw this cat that had to be a buck 70 plus. It was huge, and he was only about 30 yards away, So I got a real close look at him. And we were in the truck, so I pulled my binos up. I got right up on his ass. Looking in his eyes, looking at the size of him. Oh, my God, he was huge.

My neighbor hunts cats, and he sent me pictures of around our area, of them up in the trees. Because even the years he doesn't have a tag, I believe you can run them so he can train his dogs. Wow. So they're around, but I think they probably see me likely long before I see them. Oh yeah. Yeah. They see, but the problem is if they see you and they're hungry and they can't get a deer. Shoot him in the face. Yeah. Did you see that one? I did. That video, that video is crazy. I don't know if I would have waited that long. Yeah. I guess that guy was being a good dude. That cat was close as fuck

though. It was close. And I give it to that guy. He was giving that cat every opportunity to make a decision that would have extended his life. It looked like a juvenile cat, though. Like a young cat that's just trying to figure out if that's a meal or not. I am going to remove that opportunity for him to make that decision. That's just me, though. Yeah. The one that we saw, man,

was so big. I felt so vulnerable looking at it, even though it was like 30 yards away and I was inside of a truck. The feeling of complete physical inadequacy. If that thing wanted to get you, what it could do to you. Because ever like have a thing with a house cat like a problem with a house cat like you're trying to corral them i had a feral cat i'm not a cat person i know you are i love animals but i had a cat that i raised and he was feral like my friend laney and her boyfriend and found these cats under a apartment building and she was trying to give the kittens a home and this fucking cat was wild as shit it was a little baby and when I pick it up it would purr but as soon as I put it down it went like I think it was crazy anyway cut to cats piss in your house like and male cats you

have to fix if you don't fix them they spray on your walls and this motherfucker started spraying on my walls spray piss spray piss all right to mark the house like to let everybody know this is their house like and you can't get them to not do it if they are male they are going to spray in your house either they're going to be an outdoor cat or they're going to spray in your fucking house so uh i had to figure out a way to get this cat um to the vet and he did not want to go into a cage that was not happening so he realized I was trying to get him in a cage and it's like like fighting with me and shit so I eventually had to corner him in a bathroom and then I had to throw a bathrobe over him and like like a towel or a bathrobe I forget what it it was, but something big over him, scoop him up in this

and wrestle him into a hamper. Then I got him in a hamper and I duct taped the hamper shut. And then I took the hamper with this fucking cat, this feral cat, to this veterinarian who was a friend of mine. And he fixed the cat and then we brought him back. Was he better after you brought him back? Yeah, he stopped. He stopped pissing in the house like that.

How long did you have him for? I had him until my dog killed him. He got feisty with my dog. And my dog was like, that's a wrap, son. Cats and dogs will do cats and dog shit. Well, it was like he just fucked up. He, you know, he. You love animals more than me.

I love animals, but I don't like cats they're assholes I like cats but I love dogs dogs are my favorite because dogs are just so interactive like you can talk to them and they they're into you communicating with them like my dog will understand I'm like come on bro let's go outside he knows what that means

Marshall the happiest dog on the face of the planet he's the best but I can say things to him like, are you ready to eat or what? And like, fuck yeah, let's eat. Like he gets language. It doesn't have to be very clear and specific. He knows what I'm saying.

I'm like, come on man, let's go outside. Like I can say that and he knows he's running towards the door. Like he's tuned in to me. A cat is just never, you're never gonna have that kind of relationship with a cat. Have you ever considered the cats just ignoring you because they think that you're beneath them?

That's possible. That's totally possible. They understand every goddamn thing that you're saying. They're like, fuck you, human. My point was, I had a hard time wrestling that little fucking cat into a hamper. Oh yeah, add 150 pounds to that? Yeah. A lot more than 150 because that little fucking cat was like eight pounds

You know that goddamn mountain lion was a buck seventy if it was a pound it was so big man His forearms were so big I remember looking at his phone because he was like looking at us like this and his Forearms were like twice the size of mine like two of my forms back to the police Massive paws and this pumpkin head. I'm good with never seeing something like that, knowing that they're out there, but I don't think my life would be enriched. How big was this one? Oh, that's a bobcat.

They're not that big. Have you seen this video? Yeah, it tears the ducks up. Or a duck. I love this video because he's so clever. Look at his little sneaky fuck. Quality stock too. Oh yeah, man. Look how low he gets and everything. Sneaking up in a sand trap. That's a sand trap, right, Jamie?

Indeed. Jamie's a golfer. Look at his little fucker. He's like, I'm going to make my mouth now. Bam, I got one. That's all he needs to get is one. Yeah. And he's got him.

Cats are savage. Oh, nice. Oh, man. Yeah. Imagine playing golf and watching that play out. Well, that's just one of the many savage encounters that happens on a golf course. The big ones in Florida, those goddamn alligators that walk across. Yeah, or people that go try to retrieve their golf ball out of the water hazard.

That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, let that go, son. Jamie, what does a golf ball cost? Maybe 45 cents? The ones people are going after cost about five bucks, but even still. Yeah, but what does a prosthetic hand cost? Do they really go after a golf ball in the water?

Joe, there are people that scuba dive. There are people that scuba dive in there to collect them. Oh, yeah, I've seen that. They get free golf balls. Explain that to me. So if the ball goes in the water, you get a stroke back? What does that even mean? If you could play it, which you probably can't hit it through the fucking water, but there

are times you can because it's not deep enough. Hitting it in the water, it's a penalty. So you get a stroke. Yeah, that could fuck up a lot of things if you're playing for money. And then people are also a little bit of drunk. But wait a minute. If it's in the water, you can't play it from the water. You can, though.

Depends. If it's in, say, an inch to two inches of water, I've seen people hack it out. Oh, yeah. Everybody, when you're out there, you think you're Tiger Woods or you're living out that dream, and that's your one time this week to try it. It's like, fuck it.

I can do that, too. You see it on TV, and then you try it. It's like, fuck it. I can do that too. And what happens is – You see it on TV and then you try it. All that happens is they get completely and utterly covered in water from their club striking it and then the ball is still in there. And I think they have to take another stroke because they attempted it, right, Jamie? If you take any stroke purposefully, if you swing at it purposefully, it's a stroke. Even if you miss it, which is part of the thing.

But you get a penalty stroke so you don't have to go in the water and you just take a penalty stroke. Yeah, you can just leave it, skip it, fuck that ball. I'm not going after it. But you get a penalty stroke, so you don't have to go in the water, and you just take a penalty stroke. Yeah, you could just leave it, skip it, fuck that ball, I'm not going after it, I'll drop a ball here, and that's a two-stroke penalty. That's where I'm getting, I don't like looking for a ball. It takes forever. It makes your game last twice as long because you can't hit straight. I am so terrified of golf because I see people

like you, and particularly Tony Hinchcliffe, who is 100% addicted to that stupid game. I went down the rabbit hole with golf for a while, too. Did you? I did. Really? And what I ended up doing was waking up early and then going and playing nine holes,

where I'd go and I would chip and putt for an hour. I've discovered about myself that I have two speeds when it comes to my hobbies. I am either in or I am out. That's why I like you. You like me. With hunting, too, right? Oh, fuck. Yeah. All's why I like you. You like me. With hunting too, right? Oh, fuck. Yeah.

All in. You were all in with archery. Yeah, 100%. Not any good at it. Yeah, that's why I go, I literally can't talk to people that say they're bored. I'm like, how can you be bored? I wish I had 10 lives to run simultaneously.

Oh, I would add hobbies. I would immediately add like a half dozen hobbies that I can think of off the top of my head. Yeah. But I need another hobby right now. Like I need another hole in my head, which I don't need. It's like my buddy's like, let's go snowmobiling. I'm like, oh, God. I already like snowboarding.

So I'm already doing that. I don't need to add the motorized. Or, you know, where I live, there's a huge lake. It's like, let's go water skiing. First off, fuck off anything to do with the water. So I'm out on all that. Really? Oh, God.

You're a seal. I'm not a seal. I was a seal. You was a seal. So once you stop being a seal, you're like, no more? Most team guys that I know, Jocko being an exception because he loves to surf and he lives near the water, most guys are not going to voluntarily go into a substance they abused you with for decades oh I get it yeah I get it yeah all right you're like asking an accountant hey man do you want

to go to your office and crunch numbers on Saturday not really some people are into that though some people are I can appreciate the water I go into it sparingly and only when I want to mmm I'm just not into sharks. The fact that sharks exist. Like if there's no sharks, I'd be so into scuba diving. You could do it in lakes. Yes, you can. You could. Yeah, you can.

I'm down for that. Scuba diving is pretty cool. I've never done like a beautiful trip where you're like in crystal clear like the aqua water. Well, I have in Turks and Caicos. I did go snorkeling like on reefs and it was awesome thousands and thousands of fish man they were everywhere it was wild that was pretty cool and rays a lot of rays and turtles and shit i flew out there one time when i was doing uh aviation stuff it's a pretty cool island actually twice i went out there turks and caicos

yeah it's the the ocean is such as a it's so bizarre that we have these two completely different things that exist simultaneously on this planet we have terrestrial life and we have aquatic life and they're so different one of them's breathing air one of them's breathing water and they're just both life aren't they still breathing air in the water don't their gills yeah so they're breathing water and the gills are processing it and turning it into air. But it's just this idea that we're living in this world where three-quarters of it is completely covered in water and we don't go in there. But what we do do is we take these little boats and we bring them out onto that water and they float around out there. And then they suck all the fish out in giant nets.

It's a fish apocalypse. And sometimes people on those boats don't know how to swim. And I don't understand that. That's crazy. Yeah. Imagine being on a fisher boat and you don't know how to swim. No, I cannot. Gangster you'd have to be to take that job.

You can't even fucking swim. There's other terms you could use. Like maybe. Stupid as fuck. Dumb. Yeah. Not thinking through the potential risk involved. Well, remember that Deadliest Cat show?

Is that show still on? I think there are versions of it still on. It's going to live on forever on Discovery or wherever it plays, though. That's a crazy gig because they pay a lot of money. They pay a lot of money, and you have to pay a lot of money because you are lot of money and you have to pay a lot of money because that you are risking your fucking life yeah to try to get some crabs i don't think people realize how unforgiving the ocean is especially where those crabs are especially where those crabs are even even just in places where you know tides um rip currents swells like it gets

we did cold uh cold weather training up in kodiak alaska that was actually one of the first trips that i had done when i checked into my first team and they do it uh otb or oth so over the over the beach where you come in in zodiacs and swim in and climb up or oth you drive out over the horizon to practice navigation and fucking dry suit in the arctic ocean which i'm not actually sure it's in the arctic ocean but it feels like it and then you come back in and then you swim across and then you climb up and uh i mean it'll punish you absolutely just punish you yeah i mean it's freezing cold outside the water is just above i mean it's probably 33 degrees because it's salty i believe it could be below freezing because of the salt content.

I don't think it ever – maybe it gets right to about that. Yeah, because like there are places where salt water does freeze up, obviously, which is why you have the polar ice caps and why you have all those ice sheets. I know it's cold enough to give you an ice cream headache, and you immediately know whether or not the zippers are done correctly on your dry suit. Ooh. Oh, yeah. That's where Barclow taught. headache and you immediately know whether or not the zippers are done correctly on your dry suit oh yeah that's where barclow taught i think he was up there i think for like 10 years he was running the kodiak cold weather facility which is phenomenal training but it definitely gives

you an appreciation for how little the environment gives a fuck about you or your survival i think you're usable without a dry suit or survival suit. I think your usable time of consciousness is under 20 minutes. If you go into that water, Jesus Christ. Yeah. And you might be conscious, but I tell you what,

your, your functional ability is almost zero. 20 degrees Fahrenheit. But there's also 60, not winds. So that's like, I don't know. Hey,

if you're going to have one, you need to have the other. Yeah, the windshield's got to be unbearable. So the unpredictable weather off Alaska's coast, the greatest danger for the crab fishermen's face. The most lucrative crab seasons occur in the fall and winter when the storms are especially fierce and the cold is especially brutal. Temperatures below 20 degrees Fahrenheit, minus 7 Celsius. That's insane. I mean, $100,000 is a good sum of money, but they're saying in a good year, deckhands can make a hundred grand for just a couple of months work. In a good year. What about a shit year? Yeah. I mean, a hundred grand is a good amount of money. Yeah. I'm not getting on that boat for a hundred grand. No. If given the choice between getting on that boat or paying somebody a hundred grand

not to, I would pay the money. Yeah. I'd take out a loan and be like, I'm not getting on that fucking boat. It's not a good way to live, but it's a good way. Probably when it's over, you probably feel great when it's done. It gives you an appreciation. Yeah. Go up there and be seasonal. I went with Rinella. We went to Prince of Wales, me and Callan. We, we went on a blacktail hunt up there, and it rained every day, all day, every day. Oh, I saw this episode. You guys were what I would describe as miserable. It wasn't the most fun.

But one thing I will tell you is that it would have been more fun if we actually got a deer. But what was really amazing was when we came back, and we came back to California, the sun, just the everyday normal son of LA hitting my face felt fucking amazing it felt so good I remember calling Ronella by a dude I have never been happier I am the fucking happiest I've ever been and it's crazy it's like I don't think this happiness

is available unless you're miserable I think you have to get miserable for a week and then when it's over, then you really appreciate that sun because I was just used to the sun. I completely took it for granted. It was out there every day. I'd be in that sun every day and it'd be like it was nothing.

But because of that, I was like, oh my God, this sun is incredible. The way it felt on my face, like I was so filled with joy and happy. It goes right back to what we were talking about when we first started if you had avoided versity yeah you know you have to to appreciate the light you have to have some darkness you have to there's no you don't get those real moments of success and happiness and enjoy without struggle you have to go through something. These people

that want to just live on the couch, there's no living on the couch. There's no like, oh, the golden years. I want to hold hands and walk off into the sunset. Like, hey man, that's not a life. Like Jordan Peterson talked about that once in my podcast. He's like, what, you know, what do you want out of your life? Oh, I want to drink margaritas on the beach. He goes, okay, for how long? How long can you drink margaritas on the beach? And it's like, it's true. It's like, how long can you? Like an hour, a day, two days, three days.

I could do that shit for a few years. I'm thinking through it. I could force it. You're going to get bored. You're going to get bored. For sure. You're going to want to do something. And that's what I think people have these distorted ideas of what they want out of their life. And it's based on

one day finding relaxation and comfort. And this is the other thing they think, like one day you're going to make it. And when you make it, then all your troubles will go away. That's not real. It's a fairy tale. Yeah. If that is, you're wasting your time. You should have some troubles. I mean, I enjoy relaxing like everybody else does. Sure. But if you have to pick two days, one where you wake up and you're like, oh man, I don't have to do shit today. I'm just going to sit on the couch and watch TV. Or one where you get half a day to do that, but you spent the first half of it busting your ass and getting everything done. You have so much more appreciation that day than the day where that's just your life.

That's not the way I want to live my life. Nor do I. Yeah. And I think people, it's just an ideal, it's a thing in their head. It's a dream. It's not something they've really sat down and analyzed, like what's going to be best for the future, what's going to serve me the most, what's going to make me feel the best. Do you think a lot of people actually have those conversations with themselves? No, and that's part of the problem. They don't look at their life and go, what do I really want? They look in terms of like, oh, I want that car. Oh, I want to live in that house. They have these ideas in their head that if they had these objects and these things and these at least they

could show on paper that they're successful it'll make them feel good and i think kids are really fucked up today looking at instagram instagram and tiktok and social media where they're seeing these people live these baller lifestyles and they look at that and like that's the goal but are they actually bugatti but are they actually living that baller lifestyle too you know this as well as I do. What shows up on Instagram may not be your real life. What? Hold on.

That's a theory that I'm working on. What the fuck are you saying? That's a theory I'm working on. It's not proven yet. You don't think people expose themselves with warts and all on Instagram or social media? No, I do not. Yeah. I try very hard to not ball on Instagram.

I'm not much of a baller. I think you'd actually do a really good job of it. But kids, I don't think, have the filter to realize the level of bullshit that's occurring. Yeah. And they get to like an instant gratification place. Your kid's a little bit younger than mine. How do you manage their social media use? They have a limited amount of time.

Do they know the code to give them more? Well the little fuckers you know what one of the little fuckers did one little fuckers gave their phone to the wife with screen recording Little fucker I already like this and so this child is a problem solver. Oh my god. This child's the smart well, they're all smart, but this one is devious and god this child's the smart well they're all smart but this one is devious and like so while the wife is putting the code in the little fucker has the video and so then got it like almost immediately and the wife had to figure it out like what is going on here and then she figured out that she gave her the phone with this it's kind of fucking genius, man.

I kind of appreciate it. I was going to say I deeply respect your daughter that did that. It's pretty badass. Out of all the ways that they could have tried to figure that out, like looking over your shoulder or being sneaky, just hand you the device and pretend like nothing's going on. Oh, hey, Mom. Yeah.

Put a limit on my time. No problem, Mom. You've talked about the China curfew thing with kids playing a game. Yes. This is an issue. Oh, is it? They use their parents or someone else in their family to face scan their device so then they can use their device.

I don't know exactly how they're doing it. Sweeping new facial scans will catch Chinese kids playing past curfew. Oh, whoa. This is even from July. Oh, so that means they're scanning kids without their knowledge, like randomly? Well, that's to make sure they're not playing. But then the kids know that's happening. It's to make sure they're not playing.

That kind of crazy government overreach is so bizarre. Did you hear about the app they're giving people in Beijing for the Olympics? No. Yeah, they're giving them this app to use during the Olympics. But this app is listening to every fucking thing you say, everything you do. It's like total spyware. Do you think that the U.S. government is doing that to us as well?

No chance. Our government is amazing. I'm not saying our government's not amazing. Joe Biden, who's the most honorable and honest man who's ever lived. That's why he's the president, because he's the best we have, Andy. Is he, though? Yes.

Are the two candidates that we got to choose from the best that our country has to offer? I can't believe we're having this conversation. Yeah. You've had it many times, so I can avoid it. Yes. Yeah, of course our government is doing that. Maybe they're not as, I don't know.

Maybe they're better at hiding. I often worry, though, that people think that our government is doing that. Maybe they're not as, I don't know, maybe they're better at hiding. I often worry though that people think that our government is maybe more altruistic than others. China might be scanning faces. Again, you go back to the Patriot Act and the loss of privacy. Are they maybe monitoring it real time? I'm not sure. I think our real problem is if people start saying the only way we can compete with China is if we have the same sort of restrictions on our citizens that China has. If we have the same ability to monitor our citizens, if we have the same ability to implement laws the way China does. That could be a real problem because one of the things that China's

done that's so brilliant, I'm not saying that we should do it but it is brilliant how they've got this connection between their business and their government that's inescapable you cannot make these big corporate decisions whether you're Huawei or one of these big tech companies they work you know fucking hand in glove with the government and because of that they make these they make these decisions not based on short-term interest of the corporation in terms of stakeholders and what the shareholders want and profits for the quarter. They're looking at it in this long-term commitment, like what's going to be best for the party. Economically, I mean, I guess I can understand that I worry a lot about quality of life. Oh, listen, no doubt about it. That's the number one problem. The quality of life. Oh, listen, no doubt about it. That's the number one problem.

The quality of life is terrible. Have you ever been? No. I've been to Taiwan, but not for a long period of time. I've been there during a stopover. I've never been there for any long period of time. I was there for about eight days. It was interesting.

I went and visited. Again, when I was working for CrossFit, I was kind of the go-between between CrossFit and Reebok. So I went to go see where they made the shoes down in Fuzhou, China. And it's pretty, I mean, it's wild. It's different from the construction, the density, air quality, perceived air quality. Obviously, I didn't have a sensor out there, but perceived water quality, working conditions, working hours. I think there's a cost to having the companies and the government tied like that. There's no doubt. Yeah, I don't recommend that at all for the United States.

It's terrible in terms of creativity and innovation and the ability to have a dream and an idea and implement it and then become successful. One of the things that we love about America is entrepreneurial spirit. We love the fact that someone can, like Origin, we're talking about Chaco's company or anything else, someone can create a company and make something and put it together. And that's one of the things that's beautiful about freedom is you have the ability to take a chance to do something that you have a dream. You can put it together and make it happen. We all love that.

And when you take that away, you take away people's ability to take a chance and take away people's ability to do what they want. And instead, you have to do what the government wants. As soon as you do that, you close the door on so much innovation. You close the door on so many opportunities that you would have never predicted, right? Because who knows how many ideas that have been implemented here because people have this wild spirit of like being creative and taking chances. It would have never happened if the same person grew up under a regime like the CCP. I do worry, though, that people are becoming resistant to taking chances and being risky like that or getting off of the couch, if you want to describe it that way.

So they'll value that less and the incremental if you again you want to put the tinfoil hat on the incremental removing of those opportunities or ability to make those decisions they won't even realize what is lost because they don't value it because they never actually took a fucking chance there's going to be people like that for sure but people like that that don't take chances they open up room for people that do take chances. I don't think many people take chances. I think there's enough. I think there's enough, but I think they're in the minority. I think talking about it like this and having conversations with people who do take chances makes taking chances exciting to the people that are listening. I think part of the problem is they don't have enough to model.

There's not enough people out there that are taking chances where someone could model that and go, that's what I want to do. That's what I want to be. You know, because it's like who you're modeling. Like if you grew up in a family where no one takes any chances and everybody just takes the safest, easiest job they can have with the least amount of risk and the most amount

of security and and they live this dull gray life like blah forever you you model that if that's what you're around and or you rebel and you rebel and you take a wild chance and in a lot of families if you try to take a chance your parents will be be pissed at you. I mean, you know, there's so many people out there that are hindered and then they're saddled down by the problem of their own family having expectations on them. You're supposed to be a lawyer. You're supposed to be this. You're supposed to, you know, there's a lot of people like that out there that just the model that they copy is a model of like safety and where no one's no one's doing anything risky freedom is an amazing thing i think it's the most valuable thing that this country may have to offer but it doesn't mean a fucking thing if you don't take advantage of it yeah my friend fahim on war

he's a fucking really hilarious stand-up comic and he had to kind of lie to his parents he's an engineer and they're like brilliant guy and but wanted to be a comic and like his whole thing was like trying to get his parents to accept the fact that he's a comic it took a while that's rough he's super legit, though. If they see him, it's hard to deny. Like, once you see him do stand-up, you're like, that dude's funny as fuck. It's one thing I try to guard against with my kids. I don't know if you're the same way.

Like, my biggest fear actually was any of my kids wanting to follow the path that I did. None of them have expressed that. And I would have supported it had they chose to. I'm sure it wasn't my parents. They weren't like, yay, Andy wants to join the Navy. But they also didn't stop me. They signed the paperwork when I was 17, did all that. But for my kids to try not to limit them in any way and just to provide space to make choices, obviously boundaried, right?

I'm not going to let them take some wild haphazard risk and not be there as a safety net. But the last thing that I want to do is feel like I'm trying to fit them into that ashtray. Like, this is what I did, so you have to do that. I want them to have the exact opposite experience of that. Well, that's often what happens with people, right? They take great chances and risks in their life, and they do these scary, dangerous things for a living, and the last thing they want is their kids to do that. Like a lot of fighters never want their kids to become fighters.

I can see that. Yeah. I can see that for sure. Yeah, I don't want my kids following my path in the military. It's actually, I look back at my military career, and I wish I could say that we were successful. I think there'll be Afghanistan for sure. Maybe Iraq will be judged probably as failures.

And my biggest concern is that other kids my kids age will have to have dust on their boots from those countries. It's a tough one. You think that's what's going to happen again? I think so. At some point in time. It may not be there, but I think the same reasons. I think, again, my personal opinion,

I don't speak for the military. I don't speak for anybody else. I'm largely renowned as an idiot, so you don't have to listen to anything that I have to say. But I think the reasoning for going into Afghanistan, looking in the rearview mirror,

was far more legitimate than the reasoning to go into Iraq. I don't know if we solved any problems in either of those countries, especially with how we left Afghanistan. That's more how we're going to be viewed by the rest of the world and potential future partner forces and stuff like that. But I don't think we solved anything. That's very unfortunate. And many people share your concern and your thoughts it's not it doesn't seem in the way we pulled out of it too right well oh god i mean this that we could go on forever on this one there's there's a lot of different issues one people want to blame it all on Biden, which is fair to a degree, but also unfair to a larger degree.

He was sitting in the seat at the time the decisions were made. So he has to own those and the consequences that come from them. But the decision to withdraw or draw down from Afghanistan started probably in the Obama administration into the Trump administration, and he inherited that. So it's not as if his administration was solely responsible for the planning that again, he was in the seat. And when you're in the seat, and shit starts going south, change the fucking plan to match the reality on the ground, as opposed to what you think the pie in the sky is going to be because your enemy gets a vote in any plan, or even in the business world, right? Your competition gets a vote, you got to be able to lateral to work your way through that. There's a lot of different ways that I think it could have gone down better. They could have done it at a Bagram, which put a bottom, some more dead space.

They could have done it in a more phased drawdown. They could have listened to the military leadership that was saying, hey, maybe we keep a very small footprint, a lot of different ways. What I will say is this, in my experience with the people that I served with, not a single person that I served with or that I know that served over you were surprised by what happened, I would say that you might have a loose relationship with the truth because the writing was on the wall for a very long period of time. And I think we stayed far too long. Were you surprised that they gave up all the equipment? That, I don't know if that was a mechanism of this is the date that we have to be out of here and everybody ignored that date until it was too late. You know, the United States, the military is great at being, at least in the modern era, it's great at being surgical.

Like we went to Afghanistan to try to root out the people that planned and executed 9-11. And we did so within, I'll call it, at a very long stretch, 24 months. And we were there for 20 years. I would say the longer that we were there, the more equipment and material that goes with that. We started building outstations and every out, you know what I mean? So like the more pieces that you put on the board, it doesn't surprise me that that volume of stuff was left. And to me, that's more, it just shows, you know, either they weren't really paying attention that we needed to draw down, or there was so much stuff there that they didn't know what to do with it. But the Taliban is the best armed and equipped that they ever been in the history of the Taliban, for sure.

Which is so fucked. Yeah. It's so fucked to watch them drive down the street in the Humvees and flying the Blackhawks like, what? Yeah. Well, it may not be them flying the Blackhawks like what yeah well it may not be them flying the Blackhawks let's just say uh politely that there are other countries entities and organizations that don't uh really favor the United States and would do everything they could to be on the axis of whatever we're doing that will send mobile training teams over there that could fly on those things you know

the day that we left oh great Oh, great. Fun. Yeah. Guys getting out of the military, there's not a lot of options for things to do that are as satisfying or as rewarding or as engaging. There's a lot of guys when they come out, they have a hard time finding out what is their, what's their identity. Like what's the thing that they can do? One of the things that you did,

other than the crazy shit, like the flying squirrel suit. That's not how I describe it, but go ahead. It's a flying squirrel suit. No, the crazy shit part. Oh. It's very normal behavior. Yeah, it's not normal to break the world record in a flying squirrel suit. That's ridiculous. But you've transitioned into podcasting very successfully. What is that like for you? Is that was it? Is it surprising that has become like a career now? bad aspect of it for sure I think it was I think I met you about five years ago and I had been on I did a podcast with Tate which is how I eventually met you

he introduced me to Brian out to Tate Fletcher he's a man amazing human being love him he so I did a CrossFit centric podcast I think first off I got invited to go to a podcast what the fuck is this? I'm like, fine, I'll go do it. He introduces me to Callan and shop and I did the fighter and the kid. And then I met you. So the third podcast I had ever been on, mind you, I had not listened to a podcast. Um, the first time that you and I sat down, I may have changed some of my answers. I had no understanding of the size of your audience or what was going to come out of my mouth. I was. I needed to probably refine the thought expression of certain things, but it was your suggestion to start a podcast.

And my theory, even in the military or just growing up is maybe listen to the person in the room who has the most experience or who is the most successful. It doesn't mean they're going to be a hundred percent right, but if somebody is saying, hey, I've done this for a long time and maybe you should check it out, it'd be worth considering. So I had absolutely no idea what it was going to be, what I was going to talk about, how I was going to do it. But I took your advice and I started. Never thought for a second that it was going to be a profession

or an occupation of any kind. And I love it. I love sitting down and exploring. First off, I truly believe that the thing, like, I'm not excited by the stuff that I do, but I'm fascinated by the stuff that other people do. Like, how did you get to that area? How were you able to do that? Like, how did you live your life? Or like some of the stories of adversity? oh, my God. Like I have nothing to complain about ever. Yeah. Ever.

You know, a buddy of mine is like telling stories about drug-addicted parents. And he's like running through the fucking desert barefoot to try to get to his grandparents' house just to feel happy or safe. I'm like, oh, my God. Like calling my parents like, thank you very much for who you are. Like I'm sorry for anything that I ever did. I am an unworthy piece of shit of the love that you have provided but it's been it's been amazing and and the financial aspect of it came way later on but it is by far the favorite thing that i do because i get to sit down and talk to people about what they are passionate about and it informs

my opinion on things and it changes my mind on stuff. And I just think it's awesome to be able to sit there and have an exchange and have a dialogue. It's more than I ever thought it could be. It's an unexpected education for sure, right? Yeah. I mean, it really is. It's like it gives you an education on things in a way that you're hard pressed to find anywhere else. I mean, I think back on my podcast and obviously a lot of them are filled with nonsense and just smoking pot and getting drunk and talking shit. But there's been more than a thousand of them that aren't like that. about whatever their field was and expand my knowledge, just understanding of different things in life substantially. Like I am such a different person

than I was 10 years ago, say. Just from that. It constantly reminds me of how little I know is maybe an easy way to put it, because there's maybe skydiving in some aspects of the military, maybe a little bit on the shooting side of the house. I could talk at from a level of experience

that exceeds maybe most people. On every other topic on the face of the planet, I'm the amateur in the room right and it's just i i enjoy being in that place where you kind of get knocked back on your heels you're like oh um i thought i knew what i was talking about right i don't know shit so you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna use uh my facial features in there in the ratio that i have two eyes two ears and one mouth and we're gonna use them like that we're gonna we're gonna watch we're gonna listen and then talk last it's been a really interesting evolution. And a lot of it was where all of it was due to your

suggestion. So I have you to thank for that. I wonder how many people I've gotten to start a podcast. About 3.5 million would be my guess. I think there's 3 million podcasts out there now, but I mean, I wonder how many people I've talked into doing podcasts. It's been a lot. Jocko is another one. Yeah. I think Tim Ferris had a play in that as well because I had heard Jocko on Tim Ferris's that's true He did it before and then did yours and then I got in my mind But it was one of the first things I said Tom's like dude You have to do a podcast because you know, he's got such an intense voice Does it is in the way talks about things? it's like, you're like, Jesus Christ,

Jocko. But I just firmly believe it's one of the best self-starter businesses. It's almost like a business in a box. I wouldn't look at it as a business when you start though. No. That's the one piece of advice I would give people. Oh yeah. Because I actually now get hit from people like,

hey man, do you think I should start? How do you make money? Yeah. They do ask that one or they'll say, hey, man, do you think I should start? How do you make money? Yeah. They do ask that one, or they'll say, how do I become the new Joe Rogan? And I just get swiped into the garbage can. Boy, good luck, sir. I don't even know how I did it. Yeah.

I think that's why you were able to do it. I mean, I can't speak for you, but I would imagine that you tried to stay true to who you were and explore things that were interesting for you. And here you are. I'm stunned that it worked. I'm stunned that it still works. I'm like constantly amazed. Yeah.

It is not what, like you're saying, I would push back and I would say that there aren't limited options for people getting out of the military. It's easy for people getting out of the military to say that there are limited options. But I don't care what you do in the military. It's easy for people getting out of the military to say that there are limited options, but I don't care what you do in the military. You are going to leave with skill sets and an understanding of things like discipline, teamwork, integrity, communication, to name just a few of the many usable tools that you can put into your virtual tool belt. Do they give you guidance in terms of having the ability to take those tools and utilize them outside of the military? That's a polite way to say this.

No. So that's the problem in some ways. Well, the military has, you know, basic training is about eight weeks long. But on average, it is in the Navy, at least, unless they've changed it. I think that the Marine Corps is the longest. When I got out of the military, there was a one-week course called TAPS, the Transition Assistance Program. And I'm not sure what the S stands for. And it was about how to submit for your VA ratings.

It's about the educational opportunities. None of the classes are about what you're asking. So they spend a lot of energy, which they have to because we have a very, in my opinion at least, me-based society. And they break you of that and put you into a we-based ecosystem. But on the way out, for the people who are smart, they'll give themselves about 12 months and they'll really focus on the next horizon. But I know people who don't even start thinking about it until they're a week from getting out and they go to the TAPS programs.

But again, I mean, whose fault is that? Right. You know, you have to take some ownership of the course that your life is going to take. Yes, it can be jarring to lose a sense of camaraderie or community. And yes, you can feel isolated because you're no longer with your tribe

and the job is totally different. And in the same breath, like fucking get over it. You need to move on. You need to do something else. And for me, one of the things that drives me the most is I do not want to be defined by what I did a lifetime ago. I hate it. And I'll always have the tried and hanging over my head. And I couldn't be more proud that I was in that community. But at the end of the day, I'd rather that just be a footnote instead of the title across the top. And I think people would be better off if they took that philosophy and approach, in my opinion, which again is limited to only that, but it's not an easy path. It might take them some time. They might feel lost a little bit, but that's okay. That's often the case with anybody when they're leaving

one career and going into another career. But it seems like with military, it's such a, it's so demand, especially like in your line of work, it's so demanding, so all encompassing that sometimes it's very difficult when they get out to try to find a new, almost like a new identity. Yeah. And the military is very task oriented. So you get used to having problems that's presented to you. Like here's our training block, which you know, which a training command will set up for you and you show up and it's like, here's your gear list. Here's what we're doing today. And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Somebody is providing for that for you. They're looking at the trajectory of here's 18 months of training that you're going to go through and you're not going to facilitate it. And at the end, you're going to go on deployment. And it's it it's hard.

And I say this from personal experience. When you leave that being presented with tasks that you have to go out and find them. And I mean, shit, I've reinvented myself out of the military. Like I said, I worked for CrossFit for a bit. I threw my hat in the ring to be a professional skydiver and base jumper. I flew corporate aircraft for almost two years, the public speaking thing. And all of those is like trying to – what's going to work? What's going to be the next? In the end, what it ended up being is I didn't have the time to fly and I didn't like the duration of the time. Skydiving and base jumping, I absolutely love.

I'm very passionate about it. But where I live now, it's a little bit prohibitive getting access to it. So – and then podcasting. I didn't even add that, which – so it's a combination of those things that are left and I get a sense of fulfillment from all of that. And jujitsu even ties into that too. It's another – I mean one of the things I love about jujitsu is my training partners. Like, it'd be, jujitsu would be so gay if you had to, like, do it by yourself, like

training katas, right? Wouldn't it be the opposite? God, it would be the exact opposite of gay. Well, I think that. But the community there. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Well, they think that the community there. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Well, they're exceptional people.

The thing about it is like the type of people that you do jujitsu with are the type of people that do jujitsu. So the type of people that are interested in doing something that's incredibly difficult. So hard to – like you get to black belt in jujitsu. Like if I meet someone and they tell me they're a jujitsu black belt, I'm like, okay. That's a – You did it. You, you did. That's a lot of shit. You had to get through to get to, that's a long fucking trudge of a road.

It's a known metric for sure. Yeah. But I mean, it's not impossible. That's a, I couldn't be more proud of the time that I spent in the military. I'm very proud of the fact that I am a veteran and I was able to serve. I have criticism of segments of the veteran culture who can't move past their service. the fact that they placed them there and their life would be better. And the, and the perception of the veteran community at large would be better if they were able to move past that. Like one of the biggest things that irritates me is this broken toys narrative. I absolutely hate it. War doesn't have to break you at all. Does it break some people? Fuck yes, it does. I think

I'm a better person because of it. I think I have more of a passion for life. I think I can love deeper because of my experiences. I think I have more of a respect for life, but having been put into places where I had to make decisions to take it. And I feel I'm more prepared to solve problems. I have more of an emotional depth than I did before going in. And that's because of that experiences. And like I said, it does break some people. But if you look at trauma or post-traumatic stress, which I don't believe is a disorder, and I think we should focus far more on post-traumatic growth as opposed to post-traumatic stress, because you can navigate that and come out of it stronger. The math supports that specifically in the civilian world, even more so than in the military world. But there's a fucked up financial incentive in the military veteran

world to actually not get better because they could potentially reduce your rating from the VA, which reduces the amount of money that you get. So the whole point in saying all that is, it's very possible to be a better version of yourself from those experiences, but nobody's going to do it for you. It's not that it's easy, but it's totally possible. Veterans aren't broken. I think they should be held to a higher standard than other people because they come out of that environment where they have those tools. They have those experiences.

And I don't care what you do in the military. You know, the emphasis that they place on the same thing, you know, teamwork, integrity, communication, all that stuff, discipline, it's more than what I have seen being taught anywhere at any traditional school. So you have those tools. You have an advantage. Hold them to a higher standard. Don't let them get away with shit. Well said.

Hear, hear. Andy Stump, you're a bad motherfucker. I appreciate you. I don't know about that, but. I think so. I'll say it. Cleared Hot, it's available everywhere. You can get it on iTunes and all that jazz, right?

Is it on Spotify? It is. It is on Spotify. Are you on YouTube? I am on the tube of you, yes. Do they ever fuck with you? I don't know what they would fuck with me about. Well, they get weird with some episodes.

They will demonetize stuff. There you go. But I always just hit the button that says have a review and I've never had one that got kickbacked. Really? Yeah. Well, let's see after this episode.

This is going to be on your channel. Doesn't matter. They're going to know about it. Oh, shit. You're a part of the machine. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.

Bye, everybody. Thank you.