The Joe Rogan Experience - #1859 - Louis CK & Joe List

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

Louis C.K. is a stand-up comedian, writer, actor, and filmmaker. His new film, starring comedian Joe List, "Fourth of July," is available now at www.louisck.com. Joe List is a standup comedian, co-host of the "Tuesdays with Stories" podcast with Mark Normand, and host of his podcast "Joe List's Mindful Metal Jacket".

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night All day Hey fellas What's going on? So let me first say that fucking movie is great It's really good, I really enjoyed it I fucking laughed hard

When the family in Maine, holy shit was that great with Nick DiPaolo? Tony V. Oh my god. It's very funny. That makes me feel good. Thank you. It's really good. It's really good It's really good. You're a good actor Joe. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that really good man. You're really good Thank you. I have very little training, but I was playing myself We wrote it so a lot of real Doesn't matter though if you play, because you have to play moments. You have to play feelings. You have to listen.

And I didn't know if he was going to be any good. It had to be him, because it was his story. We wrote it together. I directed it. But I didn't know if he would have the mechanics right. But he's very natural. I never had to talk to him once during the filming. It was just, you know, it gave me a lot of room to really do better. I'm acting not

terrified right now. Good. Nice job. But you're not, you look terrified. Well, I don't know why you'd be terrified. I just don't understand. You do a million podcasts. You do it all the time. I do a lot of podcasts. I've been here, well, first of all. Well, there's a lot at stake because the movie is out just

now on the website. And it's on my website for $15. I just want to get it out there. Fourth of July. Fourth of July. Yeah. It's fucking great. I can't recommend it enough.

It's really good. I enjoyed the shit out of it. I watched it today because I wanted to watch it right before I came here. I wanted it to be really fresh. Great. It was excellent. Well, I never made a movie like that before. Most of my movies are a little weirder, a more challenging i like to keep an audience off balance but this was just a story this is such such a basic story um and uh we it was very just it's a very independent just kind

of like normal movie it's not about a big subject it's it's about people you know it's really good though it's really good i i've if i want to see that in the movies and i didn't know any of you i'd really enjoy it the the this and i had a question about filmmaking itself there's moments where like you the therapist are talking to him where it's a head-on shot but the camera's kind of like slightly moving a little which i thought was very interesting like do you what is the reason this? Is it to keep you occupied? Is it to create a sense that you're actually there because when you're seeing a person, you're kind of moving and kind of static?

Well, it depends. Sometimes what we used in this movie, we used what are called anamorphic lenses, and they make more of a dollar bill shape than a television. It's wider. So the movie is about a guy who has severe anxiety and so anxiety is about having too much peripheral sense you know and so sometimes we would rock the the the the

screen the camera just a little bit just a tiny bit to feel as disbalanced like if you're just sitting in a chair you feel like you're gonna throw up a little bit there's uh and there's we did other effects like sometimes we made the the light go green which is kind of like a green nausea feel like nausea and anxiety are very connected so we did that with him to make him look like he was as uncomfortable as as he really can be how much you enjoy that process versus the process of creating stand-up i love it so much yeah i just love it so. It drives me crazy how much I love it. I love film. I love lenses. I love photography.

I love all the tech stuff. I love going drilling way down with the DP about what's the equipment we're going to use and why. I had a good DP on this one who didn't give a shit. He was just like, yeah, you could. I guess. Who cares? He came up as a camera loader. He's not like a film, you could, I guess. Who cares? He was just a real – he came up as a camera loader.

He's not like a film school guy who wrote a thesis. He's a guy who worked in the camera department, and now he runs it. But I like it. I like equipment. I like the process. And the problem, it's all-day problem solving. It occupies your whole spirit when you're directing because you're like, how are we going to get this day done?

They're kicking us out at eight. The light's going. Stuff like that. It's like being on a boat, you know? Yeah. Nothing's in your control. You can just try to maneuver.

You've got an actor who's just not doing it. You have an actor who didn't show up. There's all kinds of stuff that happens. And if you're clever and you stay on a swivel,

you get through the day and you go fuck I can't believe we got all that and there was good shit on film How much of a process is it like how long is it from the time where you started writing this to like pitch it write it? And then get it done. I know the exact dates if you want them Yeah, give it first phone call was February 28. I mean this is like not normal February 28th We chatted on a Sunday for about three hours First phone call was February 28th. I mean, this is like not normal. February 28th. We chatted on a Sunday for about three hours unexpectedly.

And we wrapped, I believe, on September 9th, 8th. Yeah, it was very quick. From conception to we're wrapped at the movie shot. From let's make a movie about something in late February to out ready at the end of September. Wow. It was crazy. It was unheard of. We wrote it kind of, you know, first of all, the pandemic was sort of just starting to wane,

but it was still in effect. And so there was a lot of, we were all so eager to do fucking something, you know? And we were used to this empty space in time. So he came up to my place upstate a couple of times. We just wrote on a blackboard. And also, it depends on the movie. I knew what this movie should be from the very beginning. in time. So he came up to my place upstate a couple of times. We just wrote on a blackboard. And also it depends on the movie. We, I knew what this movie should be from the very beginning.

Like we just felt what this movie was about, what the engines were that were going to run. We knew DePaulo was going to play this guy. We knew Tony V was going to play all these guys. So the voices were so clear and that it was an easy, we just, sometimes you feel like you're taking dictation when you write a movie, like it's just telling itself to you. So the writing was a lot quicker than usual. And because it's just me financing it, there was nobody to send the script to wait for comments.

We just, we just finished and we wrote, that's it. And then we went back over it and reworked it a few times. So we're not wasting any money when you shoot try to cut it down because you're probably going to cut anyway uh and then start hiring folks then it's just simple you know i give it to my assistant leah who's also my producer she's the executive producer of the movie she does everything for me so she started getting it to you know the heads of

departments we started hiring people got a casting agent she started casting just start working working working um and then everything else gets dictated by like where where are you shooting We started hiring people, got a casting agent. She started casting. Just start working, working, working. And then everything else gets dictated by, like, where are you shooting? You're shooting in a house. When is it available? That house is available for these weeks, so that's our target. And try to get everything together by then. And the people that you got are fantastic, too.

Like, the woman who plays your mother is amazing. Yeah, Paula Plum. Paula Plum. They're all Boston actors. Everybody in the movie is like local, either comedians from Boston or including me and Joe or actors.

She's like a storied Boston actor. She's like in every great play that takes place in Boston. And actually her and the dad, Bob Walsh, who played the dad, they have played

man and wife in many plays, like in a major play not in Broadway But in Boston which in Boston, it's big you know and she was fucking great. That was the hardest thing How we're gonna find this woman she was so good. Yeah, like just that even the way she hugs you It's like exactly like that lady would hug. Yeah, who can't she can't she can't There's so many good lines in the movie, too. Like, we're talking about the ex-girlfriend. Oh, the one with the mouth and the tits?

Yeah, the one with the mouth and the tits. That's a true story, by the way, that I tell. I have an ex-girlfriend that when we first started dating, we'd been together for like a few weeks, and it was like popping off. We love each other. Oh, my God. And she left her email open, and I searched my name, thinking i would find

all these great things she's saying about me behind my back it was really bad and it was like a chat like a g chat gmail chat between her and her best friend and she literally was like i just met this guy i think i'm in love with him he's the funniest guy i've ever met i'm not attracted to him but i'm gonna give it a shot and I just read it and then she comes home a few hours later and I'm like hey and it's brutal it still lingers by the way was that the end of it?

no because I couldn't first of all I was in love with her and it wasn't a confidence boost I was like I can't go be single now knowing I'm ugly but it's like the person who loved me the most in the world behind my back described me as unattractive. Horrible. Yeah, it's horrible.

It's why I'm behind this mic as much as I can be right now. It's horrible. That's why we had an easy time writing the movie, too, because he has these stories. So he would just tell me stuff like that. And I know from experience what's going to work in a script. I've written them before. I've directed them before. So he would just tell me that, and I'm like, it's going in.

That's got to be in here. We had to change the names, of course. Change the names. Of course. But yeah, and his wife is played by his real wife, Sarah. I mean, in the movie, she's called Beth. Yes. And Sarah Tollemacher is a very funny comedian. She's great in it, too. Oh, thanks. I mean, in the movie, she's called Beth. Yes. Sarah Talamaker is a very funny comedian.

She's great in it, too. Oh, thanks. She's very natural. Everybody was very natural. Yeah. And Paula was the one who was the mom, was the tour de force acting job, and also the dad.

Yeah. Because the thing that's hardest in the world to get people to act is that they can't do things emotionally. Like, actors can, you know, have big tantrumss and they can cry. That's actually not hard as an actor. What's hard is what she's playing, which is unaware of herself.

Unable emotionally and unaware and in a narcissistic bubble. That's so hard to get someone to play who's actually a sensitive person. Acting is supposed to be about connecting and she's playing a woman who can't connect for her reason, and then the dad, the same thing. He can't connect because he just is disabled by his generation, and by anxiety we find out, really, he has the same problem that his son does. But in his generation, you don't fucking say anxiety.

You just quiet. You drink and you're quiet. So that was where the two hardest, and we got these great fucking actors to play those parts. And so you're releasing it only on your website? Yeah. You're not going to put it out anywhere else afterwards? I mean, we'll see.

But right now, the best mouth to drink in the interest is the website. It just comes right to us. We did a big theatrical run also, though. Yeah, it was in the theaters for a very well yeah for a month and it was killing really yeah it was um like amc theaters and regal and a few theaters what they do if they don't give you a full run they just go you can have every city for one night like it's seven o'clock on a wednesday we were in 70 screens across the country wow and they all sold out and doubled we In a lot of cities, we were like in three theaters, like Thor or something.

Holy shit. At the Lemley in LA, it got held over like three, four weeks, I think. It just kept getting held over. In New York, we had a premiere at the Beacon Theater, and we packed it. And everybody watched the movie in the Beacon Theater. And it was huge.

It was fucking amazing. I don't want to derail the conversation. My ass just fell off on Beacon Theater and it was huge. That's fucking amazing. It was huge laughs. I don't want to derail the conversation. My ash just fell off on the rug and I feel terrible. Okay, great. No one gives a shit here. That was helpful. There is an ash tray.

Well, it fell. You know, sometimes I didn't ash on the rug. You get ash on the table. It doesn't matter. All right. It fell. It was a mistake. It doesn't matter.

But people loved watching the movie together, I think, and crowds and laughing. It was really fun to be in a cinema where people are laughing so you can't hear the dialogue. That's like the best feeling in the world. Oh, man. Yeah, it was pretty magical. And there was laughs where we didn't expect laughs. For me, it's like about my life, basically.

My mother's much nicer. I don't know where the camera is. My mother's wonderful. She's not a sociopath. But, you know, to you, everything about you is dramatic. And then she's not a sociopath but you know to you everything about you is dramatic and then there's moments that happen in the movie would be like this huge house room laugh and i was like i didn't even think that was funny like when the dad i don't want to give too much away but i try to talk to my parents and my dad just responds by being like jesus and takes a

sip of beer i thought it was like a sad moment and the place like explodes with laughter and different in each city like we did big screenings, premieres with us there and cast members in Beacon and then in Boston at the Schubert and then at the Vic in Chicago. So in New York, he tells his family off the moment where he just really lets them have it and says, fuck you to his mom. Don't give away too much. Too bad. Listen, it doesn't matter. The New York crowd went berserk. They cheered like,

yeah, because we're all in New York. We all came from some fucking town and it was a fantasy for them. And everybody's like, that's right, that's right. Then we take the movie to Boston where everybody's from and that moment the crowd was like, oh no.

When he said fuck you mom, it was, no, you don't say that. And so totally split. But then later when his uncle has, they have this fight where it brings, in both cases, brought the audience back together. Because he kind of levels the thing out. brought the audience back together because he kind of levels the thing out. So to me, that's a successful movie, one that gets completely different reactions from different people,

but they all like it and they're all compelled. Is this the first time you've ever released something just directly? I know you did your animated show. You released that directly on your website too, right? Oh yeah, which one? Horace and Pete? Oh yeah, Horace and Pete.

That was the stage show. Yeah, this is the first thing I've made besides stand-up specials. I have two new ones that are out now. But that's the first movie I've ever put out on my site directly. And you've just been doing mostly your stand-up specials that way, right? Stand-up specials. Also, my series, Lou louis on fx that's on my website too exclusively i got i licensed it from fx and from disney who actually owns it and so you can buy it on my website i had i like i got them to give it to me exclusive so i wouldn't have to compete

so you can buy the whole series all five seasons for five for thirty dollars for the whole five seasons do you think you'll ever get to a point where your website is like a subscription thing like a fucking hulu type deal where you'll ever get to a point where your website is like a subscription thing, like a fucking Hulu-type deal where you can just subscribe to your website and get all the things? I think it's tough because it's not that much content. I mean, there's packages. Like, you can buy all my...

I have seven stand-up hour specials on there now. And you can buy them all for $25. So that unlocks all of them. You can stream them, you can download them and own them and whatever. That's just the way it's always been between me and my fans on the website. I put stuff out once in a while, set a price that's just enough for me to get some profit and get the money back.

So it lets me operate independently and it's outside of the kind of algorithmic. The thing is that those platforms depend on algorithmic plug-in and it's outside of the kind of algorithmic it's not the thing is that those Platforms depend on algorithmic plug-in and it's a very different model Yeah, they also have billions of dollars to create contact in the lice licensed content I don't know where it's going. I'm grunts. It's starting to be a lot of a lot of stuff There's a lot of stuff on the web. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm getting to it's like I thought about that too because a lot of people are starting to do that now. Like Schultz released his new special completely on his website. Yeah.

And a lot of people are doing those kind of things now because you do encounter these problems with streaming services and censorship and just weird – just having their input on content. It's not fun. No, of course not. And they have, because when you're on a streaming service or on any platform, they have their own problems. Yeah. And because they're all owned by larger and larger corporations, they can't do anything that wiggles too much.

So they have just too many concerns. And that's the way I look at it. It's not like oppression. It's just like they're too mixed in with other shit to be my boss because I want to be able to fuck around and have fun. Yeah. So, you know. And so for me, I mean, I've been doing this since like 2010 when I put my first special on my website. And I like it.

I like the way, the feeling of it. Everybody that's bought a ticket to one of my shows or has bought one of my shows is on my email list. So they get told. a ticket to one of my shows or has bought one of my shows is on my email list so they get told um it's different now because social medias and the algorithm is a kind of a giant suck it's like it does suck it does well it's like everything is directed to you you're told what's coming next by the algorithm it's tailored to each person and it's hard people have less of an impulse to look around and to find their own shit. You know, nobody picks up a flyer anymore. What is this strange thing?

You know, going to midnight movies, the kind of the way that people used to find things outside of the corporate sort of old algorithm of advertising. Now they can just kind of just keeps coming to your phone. So, you know, it's coming. Now they can just kind of just keeps coming to your phone. So, you know, it's common. So I think, though, that people are starting to want to make more of an effort to find their own shit, to find something that's not, you know, it's not in that thing. So that's why I like to keep my website the same and the same model and the same way I've always done it, because we keep getting more people that, you know, and that's the feeling we got when the movie was in the theater. It's not like the other shit that's out right now. It's not a Marvel movie and it's not about a black girl

with one leg who persevered. It's about a white guy with two legs that persevered. Yeah, exactly. Who didn't persevere that well, but who did his best. Well, see the film for God's sake. Yeah, that's right. I'm sure. We're going to get people to see the film. Having a special sake. Yeah, that's right. No, I'm sure. We're going to get people to see the film.

Having a special like the one that won the Grammy and knowing that you released it just entirely on your website too has got to be nice too. You've done it completely outside of any other system. You've done it completely independently, released it independently, and it still got recognized. Yes, it's kind of cool to have a Grammy where it should say like MCA Records.

It says lewisck.com. It's's just you know i have i have two emmys that have that on there too because i got emmys for stuff that i did on my website wow so my website is one as many emmys as a lot of networks have you know on a given year that's amazing and that does that does feel good it's fun to have your own shop and Yeah. And again, you're not responsible to anyone else, which isn't just about being a tyrant and wanting everything to go your way. Yeah. You don't have other people's worries. Like when I did Horace and Pete, the experiment was I want to make a real TV series with huge names. I mean, Steve Buscemi, Alan Alda, Jessica Lange,

Edie Falco, that was the cast. And no one knew it was coming. I didn't promote it. I didn't tell the press about it. I didn't send it out for reviews. I just one day sent an email to my folks saying, Horace and Pete is available. That was it.

And I wanted to see what'll happen. I knew it wasn't a good idea in terms of financially, but I didn't want someone with money to be telling me, dude, you can't do that to me. I invested. And they would be right. I paid for it entirely myself. I mean, I took a line of credit.

But that show made enough on the website to pay that back. And then Hulu licensed it for another millions of dollars. but in the, that show made enough on the website to pay that back. And then Hulu licensed it for another millions of dollars. So I was able to write checks, which is my favorite thing to me. Getting checks is fun, but writing, I wrote a check to Steve Buscemi for hundreds of thousands of dollars and went to Alan Alda,

who I grew up watching and I wrote him a, my company check. I wrote him a big fucking, you know, he could buy a house with that. That feels good. I can't wait for my check. I wrote him a big fucking, you know, he could buy a house with that. That feels good. I can't wait for my check. Yeah, you're not getting any check.

It is very cool to be able to do things independently and then not have the input. Because no matter what people like to think, they are in some way at least you're influenced by the people that make the decisions. By the people that spend the money, by the network itself, by the standards that people that spend the money by the network itself by the Standards that people have in the network and the tone of the time. It's very difficult to be independently artistically creative like that well also it feels like anyone that has a job feels the need to You know what do you call that? Make it nets shown that they need to have the job. What's that word validate? So if you send it to someone to be like hey will you read this they feel like they have to give you notes

They're not gonna just say good job. Yeah, perfect. Just run it make it they like Oh, we have to say something or else we don't deserve a job That's the always the biggest problem with network notes is the person that feels like they have to say something There's always these people that feel like they have to have a voice. That's right. It's so gross. They're also accountable to somebody else. That's what I started to learn the more I did work for big companies. The guy who's giving you shit, he's getting shit from somebody else.

Yes. And so there are strategies for taking them under your wing and saying, how can I help you in your work day so that you can leave me alone? It's also got to be a helpless feeling if you are an executive and you're just counting on these maniacs. Yes. And you have no, you don't know how to do it. You don't know how to write.

And these fucking guys are assholes. Artists are assholes. So they're just like, fuck you. I want to do this, you know? And now that there is a sort of a sense of, there's a sense of being careful. The problem is the audience gets screwed because the only things that are fun to watch is something where you go, I never saw that. I never would have thought somebody would have done that. This is what's fun to watch are astonishing things.

And astonishing is dangerous. So if you're working in any of these algorithmic platforms, it's a little – they have to be really careful. I mean there's exceptions. There's – some of them are doing a good job you know there is cool stuff out there oh there's a lot of cool stuff it's really amazing how much cool stuff out there there is when you do think about that process though that's right yeah all of your favorite tv shows and movies were made in most of them in a studio system. Yeah. So you can be clever and get around it. It is possible. Yeah, it can be done, but it's got to be very nice to not have to deal with any of that.

It is. Also, things like there's no stars in this movie. I didn't need anybody to carry the movie. He's the star of the movie. I mean, I got some YouTube specials. But no, that's true. You're the biggest star in the movie. I'm the biggest star in the movie.

Yeah. But everybody else is just, we pick them for their acting. You know, when you get like big names to be in your thing, it's like the grace they have to come down to your thing is what you're counting on but when you pick people who haven't done something so big before there's the grace of them stepping up and like doing something they didn't know they could do yeah you can see in their eyes in the movie everybody in this movie you can see that they're like i've never had a part this big and i'm and they're nailing it and it was just so fun dorothy dwyer who was

a comic in boston when we were kids and i knew she was just a nice lady who i knew and it was just so fun dorothy dwyer who was a comic in boston when we were kids and i knew she was just a nice lady who i knew and she was funny and now she's in sweatpants doing this hilarious character in this movie and every time i was watching i had my hand over my mouth like i can't believe how great this is like i was very it was very emotional wow yeah it was a lot of fun so when you're doing something like this and you're also touring, because you're still touring a lot. Yes. How do you allocate the time? Do you just decide to take a couple of months off and not do any stand-up?

Or how do you handle that? Well, I've gotten kind of good at segmenting time. When you're not thinking about something, you put it aside like it doesn't exist at all. So with this thing, we wrote it. Then we were in pre-production. I think I toured during pre-production. I think you shot a special the night before we went into production. That's right.

Which I argued against pretty hard. I was like, I don't think that's a great idea. That's right. Why did you think it was a bad idea? Well, I just was like, why don't we just focus on the movie? But we're different kinds of guys, obviously. And he's like, I'm thinking about shooting a special literally the night before we started shooting. Or maybe it was one day.

It was one day between. Yeah, and I was like, you could shoot after. That's probably for the best. That's right. But I'd lost that argument. But it's better to do it that way than do it the other way because if you shoot afterwards, then you haven't done stand-up in a long time.

That's right. For the special, it was better. And also... Joe was being selfish. Yes the special, it was better, and also... Joe was being selfish. Yes. No, he wasn't being selfish. He was being conscious of his corner of the part, which was the movie.

But what I had in mind is that I need to finance the fucking movie, and the special is guaranteed cash. I know what I make for specials. So I didn't have enough money, really, to make the movie. But I knew if I make the special and then the movie, one way or the other, I'm going to come out ahead. Because the special is just going to make, you know. It took the budget of the special and the movie kind of combined them as this year's output. And figured if the special makes what it used to make, what I'm used to, and it far exceeded it, it would be really great.

So, yeah. So it works. So I needed to shoot. now I can tell you well but we also there wouldn't have been no movie without a special well it's also scary because we shot within your touring schedule so we had no room for no margin of error and then the first day of production my wife was she was gone she was. She was doing Zany. She's a comedian. She was at Zany's. She came home. So I'm terrified someone's going to test positive for COVID because this is still COVID times. And I'm like, if someone gets COVID because it's SAG

or whatever union shit, they'll shut us down. And there's no place to reshoot. She comes home from Chicago first night, you know, we're making out. We're having anal. She's fucking me. And she gets a text. The guy, a friend of hers that she was with the day before is positive for COVID. So I was like, you fucked me. This movie's going to derail. If anybody had gotten COVID, the movie wouldn't have gotten made. Yes.

We didn't have that. We didn't have room. She ended up being negative. Positive for herpes, but negative for COVID. I feel like I have to say I'm just kidding. I have herpes. She doesn't. In case I die, I want to be able to get laid.

Do you still get herpes tests just to get that positive? Just because you know. I don't get tests, but I get outbreaks. And I'm like, there's two lines there. Two big lines. Definitely still have it. You got your antibody strong. i'll probably have it after this i'm on no sleep i'm stressed lucky strikes lucky strikes i ripped the filter off because i don't

that's really that's a lucky yeah no filters yeah you smoke occasionally i like a cigarette before a show cigarettes before shows are fucking fun it Cigarettes have a lot of, they give you a lot of fuck it. Cigarettes have like fuck it. There's fuck it built into a cigarette. You just smoke a cigarette, you're like. It's true. I think a cigarette is like the world is, you just found out the world's ending. Yeah.

Light a fucking smoke. It's the first thing I would do. Yeah. I always keep cigarettes in my house for that moment because I'm expecting it. And they help you shit. Do they? I don't know. Nicotine, right? Doesn't it get it get it going i don't know nicotine and coffee definitely do yeah yeah there's something about nicotine and coffee just opens up the port let's go just let it fall out you don't even have to squeeze yeah i don't know what's happening i mean it's just some i wonder if amyl nitrate does that. That's the reason why gay guys like poppers.

It's because it relaxes your asshole muscles. Is that true? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's part of it. It's like a feeling of euphoria, apparently, and also relaxing your asshole muscles and also destroying your immune system. Yeah.

Do they still do that? I don't know. I feel like a lot of this changed since the 80s. You should put a poll out. Yeah. What is a popper? Those amyl nitrate, you crack this thing under your nose, and it makes you make that sound, and then you cum.

Let's get some. Get three of them right now. Let's get weird. Yeah. Well, we have smelling salts, which is almost as good. Oh, those are fun. Have you ever smelled those? I have, yeah.

In elementary school. Oh, not elementary school. I guess it was high school. In school, whatever school it's called. I was like pretending to be sick to get out of class, and then the teacher gave me smelling salts, and it was quite a thrill.

It's a jolt. Yeah, it was a jolt. It's to wake you up when you passed out, right? Yeah, it's like after you got a big hit. Well, in the old days in football, they'd just give you smelling salts, but now they send you in the tent. But hockey players do it before a game. Have you ever seen videos of like a boxing match I saw in Africa somewhere

and a guy was knocked out and his trainer goes over and reaches in his shorts and just starts jacking him off to wake him up. Have you ever seen that? Yes. I have seen that. Stop it. I've seen this in many places. It's just a normal heterosexual athletic idea. I don't understand why they do that. I think it might just be a perv who just says,

I know how to fix it. Can we pull this up? Because I'm not buying it. I think you guys are fucking with me. We'll find some old wives tales. There's quite a few of those. Yeah. Yeah.

That's weird. When you get kicked in the nuts, and here it goes. There we go. What? He passed out. He's like, get in there. Grab his cock now that he is out. Yeah, waterboard him first.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. See, he's rubbing his dick, and the other guy's he is out. Yeah, waterboard him first. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. See, he's rubbing his dick, and the other guy's rubbing his tummy. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, he's pulling on his cock. Maybe the idea is to be like, what, is this guy jerking me off?

I got to wake up. He has to wake up. That's it. Wait a minute. He's still, by the way, he's either still passed out or he's enjoying it. Oh, faster. The guy in the top is just playing bongos on his head. Is this from a fight?

I think it was a fight. You see those people circled around? It was a car accident. Oh, he's got blood coming out of his nose. Yeah, you see they were fighting. At least they have- Oh, this is, I know what this is. This is that, I think they only have like one glove on.

One glove, yeah. They hit each other with one hand only. This is the Michael Jackson fight. Oh. That was it. Yeah, there it is. Wow. Is it a protective glove?

It doesn't even look like it has padding. Yeah, it has padding. There's a glove that some Muay Thai fighters wear where the fingers are exposed. And it's basically like glorified hand wraps. It's like thicker hand wraps. And they fight like that. No kidding. It's quite common.

I was watching a Muay Thai movie, a Cambodian movie, in a hotel, and they did rope fighting. They put ropes around their wrists. Brutal. It's a good movie. I forget what it's called. It's brutal. Yeah. There's a type of fighting called letwe that's big in Myanmar, and they headbutt.

They fight bare knuckle. They headbutt each other, elbow each other. It's fucking ruthless. They must not last very long. I had the main guy, David LeDuc, in here, the champion, and he's fucking the nicest guy in the world. Wow. So nice and funny and is a vegan.

Yeah, interesting cat. Wow. Yeah. It's weird when people get knocked out, the stuff their bodies do, like the arms going up. Yeah. I remember when Ricky Hatton got knocked out, the stuff their bodies do. Oh, yeah. Like, the arms going up. Yeah. Like, I remember when Ricky Hatton got knocked out by Pacquiao, I think. And he did this weird...

And they start snoring right away. Right away, yeah. Fucking must be horrible. Yeah. The first time I ever saw someone knocked out, that's what was so weird about it, was the snoring. Instantaneous snoring. What if... Do you...

If you don't snore in your regular life do you snore when you get knocked out or is it only snore it's a good question that's a good that's a good question i'm not sure and i've seen people get knocked out and not snore it's like a deep sleep sudden deep sleep yeah and when they wake up they have zero idea what happened and they keep asking so like if you got knocked out you'd be like what happened and i go dude you just got knocked out you'd be like what is going what happened like'd go, dude, you just got knocked out. You'd be like, what is going on? What happened? You'd have to ask over and over again.

Over and over again. You don't remember. Like hours later, you might not remember. Like hours later, you'd be like, when are we fighting? Like you already fought. You got knocked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus.

When you're with friends that have been knocked out, it's very – I've never been knocked unconscious, but I've been TKO'd, which is a lot different. Like your just legs give out, and I just went downKO'd, which is a lot different. Like you just legs give out and I just went down, but I was awake the whole time. So I don't know what it's like to just wake up, but it seems very jarring. It seems like they look very confused. And I've interviewed a bunch of guys that had been knocked out. And I kind of said at a certain point in time, I'm not going to do that anymore. Cause sometimes they wouldn't remember what happened and they'd remember things

that didn't happen. Like one guy, he got knocked out he was like the guy tapped he tapped and like what are you talking about it's like there was a time in the fight where he tapped out and so we actually had to play the replay unfortunately like show show me in front of like 15 000 people and millions on tv show me where he tapped you mean right after the fight right after the fight wow and then afterwards i said hey i don't think we should do this anymore. No. No more interviewing people after they get knocked out. No.

No, they shouldn't talk to people right after stuff happens. No, but some people want to talk. Some people, after they get KO'd, they want, and some people are great at it. They say, hey, hats off to my opponent. He was a better man. And they know how to put it together and they can handle it. It really depends on how bad you got fucked up Like some it has to be insane to get knocked out and cut those big big fights and wake up with

14,000 people I meant how long before they realize oh right? I was in a prize fight. Is it immediate? I mean because it must be a moment where they're just like wait. What is this? What is my life? I mean even if it's just for a second, then they're like, oh right, I'm fighting. Also, when you lose consciousness, you lose everything. Yeah. And then it comes rushing back. Yeah. So your whole identity kind of leaves you and comes back. Yeah, it's not good for you.

That's my number one moral and ethical conflict with being a commentator for fights is that I know these guys are legitimately harming their brains. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Nope. Yeah.

They all have CTE. All the guys have been fighting for 15 years. It's just a matter of how much. They might have just a small amount, and then they might have a lot. But that thing about being talked to right after, it's like when there's school shootings and the press goes there,

like Anderson Cooper reporting from the fucking school grounds. Yeah. talk to right after it's like when there's like school shootings and the press goes there yeah like anderson cooper like reporting from the fucking school grounds yeah and they start getting folks to talk yeah these are folks that don't know what it's like to be on television they haven't processed what happened at all and they're like no no you should talk you should talk and that you know i remember after the awful one in connecticut the the parents are like being told they don't know you let us talk to your kid and they don't know what this is going to feel like they don't know what's happened they don't know anything about what's happening you shouldn't put people on television in that vulnerable state you know it's terrible it's

also terrible because when you've experienced a traumatic event your memory is really fucked up that's one of the things about with conspiracy theorists like a big event, they're like, I heard explosions. I heard this. I saw a man running away. They don't know what the fuck they remember. No. If you have an extraordinary moment that's so outside of the norm, like a plane hitting the Twin Towers, you are so fucked up.

Your reality has been rocked so hard. It's going to take you a long time before you process. And even then, your memory then it'll never be your memory It'll never be like a playback of what happened. Yes, because your body keeps you from that Yeah body injects you with adrenaline and turns your brain into a reptilian Survival machine it stops recording, you know, reliably and storing reliably. Yes So that's like the last person you should ask. Yeah, and then that's why you get so many completely different versions of what happened.

People don't know. And then also it's easy to plant a narrative in someone's head. It's easy to tell them what it is, and then they'll start repeating it, even if it's incorrect, when they were actually there. That's why eyewitness testimony for crimes is very problematic. It's the most unreliable testimony

because people really don't remember. People will be convinced, they'll have a person on the stand, that's the guy who mugged me. And they're fucking totally wrong. But in their mind, they remember that guy, they see that guy, they see the guy who punched them, they see the guy who stole, and it's not the same guy at all.

And in their mind, they just decide that this is the person and the mind sort of fills in with memories right memories are fucking weird thing i've read that when you remember something you're just remembering the last time you remembered it you're not actually recalling oh sure the event yeah well not only that you're remembering your version of it and you're remembering what you want what you need to hang on to and sometimes you're remembering things that of it. And you're remembering what you want, what you need to hang on to. And sometimes you're remembering things that you can't let go of. Yes. And things that are starting to become bigger and bigger.

Right. Like OJ. Do you think OJ really remembers what happened that night? I would wonder what his actual memory is like. Well, his book is the memory. His book. And there's one point where he's in the car and there's a guy in the back seat. He had a character with him

who's yelling at him saying, what are you doing, OJ? You can't, you can't do this. And he's telling him to shut up. This is what people do when they're in a, they split in two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he, that is probably how he remembers it,

you know? Right. I mean, I don't fucking know, but you know. Yeah, I don't fucking know either, but it's, watching that guy on Twitter is fucking fascinating Hmm have you ever watched his videos like hello Twitter world? It's yours truly OJ So you need to see it you haven't seen this you need to see some of these they're fucking incredible

And he's so oblivious that he'll comment on like murders Like this is so senseless and And then look in the comments. I don't know if he reads the comments or not, but it's all like knives and shit. Jesus Christ. It's fucking crazy. And he's out there golfing. I mean, the guy allegedly killed two people

with a fucking knife, which is one of the most horrific ways to kill someone. Almost cut her head off. Down to the bone. Down to the spine. Give me some volume on this. It looks okay. Hey, Twitter world, it's me, yours truly. Well, I've

been watching, you know, the Golf Channel as they get ready for the Open. Sure. And I saw Tiger in his comments about the live golf and I agree with 95% of what he said, but I couldn't disagree with him more with something that he said that all these announcers seem to be running with their belief that by getting guaranteed money that these guys are going to be de-incentivized to work out, I guess.

That what's their, you know, incentive to work out, I guess. What's their incentive to work out? Pride. Hey, I've had guaranteed contracts at the end of my NFL contract. And I still tell my wife. Didn't keep me from working my butt off. Trust me. I guarantee you that Tom Brady is working his butt off. There's so many guys in basketball, football, LeBron James,

with guaranteed contracts. I don't understand why you're going to disrespect the competitive spirit of golfers being disrespected by golf analysts. Come on, guys. Maybe Mickelson. When you get older, it's harder to go out there and have a time in practice. That piece of shit. Maybe Mickelson's a lazy fuck.

But Dustin Johnson and Kepka, I don't believe that argument fits. I think these guys, they're young, they went for the money, but I don't think they're any more de-incentivized than they were before.

If that's a word, I might have just invented a word. Any of that. Do you have a nose ring? That would be amazing if you did. One thing they've done is they've forced the PGA to already establish bigger purses. The guaranteed money portion of it, athletes are athletes. I've known golfers.

I've been around them. They're competitors, just like football, baseball, basketball players. And most of the ones that I've met, virtually all of them for that matter, they want to be the best that they can be. Yeah, you're right, OJ. Click on that actual thing to see the comments. is that if OJ hadn't killed his wife and run, I think if his life went naturally, he'd still be doing that. Oh, yeah, 100%. That would still be him doing that.

This is like, love you, Juice, you're a king. But scroll up a little bit. These guys are my favorite right there. Agree to disagree on this one, guys are my favorite right there agree to disagree on this one Juice one of the rare instances we disagree and that's fine

those fucking guys are out there I fucking love that there's guys like that out there we disagree we've disagreed twice ever

it's on this and chopping the lady's head off those are two points that I didn't get agree to disagree Juice oh god can I see that later again yeah they're just hoping that he like either responds Chopping the lady's head off. Those are two points that I didn't get. Agree to disagree, juice. Oh, God. Can I see that lighter again? Yeah.

They're just hoping that he either responds or reads it. He's just like, I love those oblivious guys. Yeah. Well, it's like the women who write to serial killers in prison. Oh, yeah. That's how lonely people are. It's like, that's somebody I can connect with. I think a guy like that thinks, OJ might talk to

me, because he's at my level because he killed his wife. So that makes him not so haughty. He's a pariah. Yeah, if that guy writes to Tom Brady, Tom Brady's not writing back, but OJ might hit him. Might make him feel like he's alive. He might send him a DM.

He might feel seen if he writes to Joe. Did you read the run of his life the jeffrey tubin book about him no it's amazing it's one of the best books ever it's like the guy who got busted jerking off yeah jeffrey tubin that guy they just let him go they just got rid of him again they kept him for a little while like this is not fun this is not we can't he wrote an amazing book but there there was a compelling piece of circumstantial evidence that I'm always fascinated by. Two things I remember from that book. But he was doing a TV show at the time about Navy SEALs, and he was consulting with a Navy SEAL.

And one of the things the Navy SEAL told him is that when they go on a secret mission, they wear all black and black knit caps. Because it's actually a decent disguise which i don't understand how that works but it is at night makes it harder for you to be described there you go size and your shape and so he wore that when he did the killing he happened to and they also come up from behind and cut throats or something like that yes so that's that's how he uh that's how he did it did they teach him like if a guy comes back to get his sunglasses here's how you handle that yeah in the moment. That's what the Navy SEALs at him right after that. What is this? Defunct show frog men That's where he was learning so he killed him in that fashion god damn. He was a handsome guy

He looks better here. Yeah than in the previous video. Well. He know that guy's handsome 80 fucking years old that's a handsome seal oh he is a very good-looking guy and amazing and naked gun he's very funny very funny it's so crazy when someone like that does something like what he did yeah I mean it hasn't happened very often because there's a few that like was it the woman who drowned Natalie Wood? Is that it? Oh, Natalie Wood drowned. Robert Wagner?

Robert Wagner did not kill her, though. I watched the documentary, so I know. No, I don't fucking know. Yeah, I don't know either, but there's some people that were on the boat. That story's fucked. There's a lot. I don't want to comment on it because I don't have the facts at my disposal, but that story's pretty fucked

Where you know it's like resisting looking for and you know like oh? She fucking probably went to town It's one of those things like not like where the fuck is my wife Jesus Christ. We gotta find her it was like Yeah, it's just fine Let's let her sink I remember reading that book That's like so obvious I guess but to read it is like when you're on trial for murder, and you're found innocent There's no Like paperwork you just leave right you just go home. There's not like I got one more day in jail or whatever It's just like I take care, and he's like all right. He's just like that you know Burger King a few minutes later

That's fascinating well. He was trying to make you know Burger King a few minutes later. That's fascinating Well, he was trying to make money right so that he did a lot of wild shit Do you remember the rap video he did where he was on like on a throne? It was like the juice is loose and it was like all these like girls dancing around them And he was rapping this is before after after the killing no killer saw that yeah fine Find OJ Simpson's rap song, The Juice is Loose. Look at this. Play this.

Whoa. Get juiced. Look at him. Whoa, tits. Yeah. I mean, come on. How crazy is this? This is after.

This is the 90s before the internet. It's part of his prank show. This is a part of a prank show? Yeah, he was pranking people and this was part of the TV show. Imagine this guy murdered your daughter and then you're just like, oh, there he is. That's rough. Crazy. Great. Can. Great, can.

Alright. Wow. I mean, what the fuck? Where was this on where they could show tits? I want to say that like the Playboy channel or something like that. Like back when you had to get authorized to get movies. Oh, right. Yeah.

I used to have one of those chips in my DirecTV box that would let you get everything. Oh, right. Yeah, you get all the pay-per-views, all the movies, and they would scramble it every time a big fight would come out. You'd have to get a new chip. I'd have to call my guy, like, you got a new chip ready because the fights are about to come out? It was so much easier to just pay for it.

Yes, just pay for it. And this wasn't on television. I had money, but it was just like so, I just loved the fact, look what I got. You liked it, stealing it. And it was also like all the porn. Like you get all the porn channels. It was like constantly on porn, which is crazy. Like this is, back in the day we had to go to a DV store and go through the embarrassing beads.

Oh, God. Yes, the beaded door to that room. And there's a guy at a section you want to be at, but you don't want to be shoulder to shoulder with him. I saw that one. Kids today will never understand. I remember when there was VHS tapes, and they had glitches in them.

And there would always be one point where there's a big, like, you know, it would get fuzzy on the screen, because that's where the last guy kept rewinding that moment. That was his cum moment. So he kept going back and back, right in a very big cum shot. Those were the days. We were all sharing porn then. Yeah, when we all would make copies.

There's this pool hall that I used to go to. My friend Brian had two VCRs, and he would always tell, Oh, I got a good one, man. He was a hilarious dude. He's like, I got a fucking good one, man. You got to get this one. And he would hand tell, oh, I got a good one, man. He was a hilarious dude. He's like, I got a fucking good one, man. You got to get this one. And he'd hand out copies to everybody. He wanted everybody to be jerking off to what he was jerking off to.

What a sweetheart. That's sweet. He was shameless. Shameless people are fucking hilarious. It's the funny thing about porn. It's such a private, shameful moment. But you're sharing it with a lot of people. Yeah.

Like if you go on Pornhhub or something you're watching a video We're like this is weird that I'm watching this this one's weird. This makes me feel weird and there's like 365 million views With porn is the strangest thing because it's it's so Forbidden and taboo yet so used oh yeah, it's everybody needs it. It's one of the most downloaded things. I think some people don't need it. I mean, how many people are out there just jerking off to memory? What slice of the pie is that?

It's a very thin sliver. I have to say I'm one of these guys. No one believes me. I think because I look like a guy that watches porn. But I think also, I never had access to, I was in a I never had porn. I didn't have an older brother, I think. I don't know. We weren't porn people. Did you have friends that got porn? I had porn. I didn't have an older brother, I think. I don't know. We weren't porn people. Didn't you have friends that got porn?

I had friends. I got friends. I know you have friends that got porn. Notice how I qualified it? No. I never liked guys who want to watch porn together. That's odd. Yeah.

I don't like that at all. Yeah, that's odd. That's very strange. It's a private. It's me alone with the porn. I don't really watch porn anymore, and I've started to try to use memory and thoughts. Because I think this thing with porn is it crowds out your real sexual intention and your own natural sexuality.

And you're looking forever for just the right thing. And it can be exhausting. It made me feel like shit after a while. So I've tried to go back, and it's been interesting. No more porn, no more pictures pictures and just try to think of what gets you there you know it means i jerk off less often right and it and it's more of a special thing now i feel a lot better since i got to that you know right because when you jerk off it's because you're actually horny and you want to get rid of it not you're bored right or anxious a lot

of times it's just getting you know like if for me if i'm writing sometimes and i'm just like yeah let's go jerk off right but that's less now it's less now since i got stopped using it the thing that's just reliable if i plug into this if i watch this it's going to get me off instead it's like what actually turns you on what actually you know makes you feel something i know a lot of people feel like they have to jerk off before they perform before they go on stage i never would do that yeah like when they're in the hotel before they leave to go to the venue, they'll jerk off. It's always fascinating to me that the audience doesn't realize

how recently the performer has masturbated. Yeah. Like we're like, I'm telling jokes, and you're like, just about 11 minutes ago, it was ejaculating. Is that what you do?

I don't always do that, but I have done that because you're just bored waiting to get picked up. I mean, I did this as a bit. I don't want to just do bits here, but for me, it's like porn is just other people fucking.

That's why it's hard. Like, I want to picture me having sex. And, I mean, the joke is it's hard to find a guy that looks like me who's not being tied up and beaten. Well, there's a lot more of that now because there's a lot of stepmom porn. There's a guy like you who comes home and is like, where's dad? And the stepmom's wearing lingerie, cooking, and bending over to the oven. See, do you find that at all? You're just watching someone else fuck.

And I'm like, I want that to be me, not him. Yeah. Yeah. And then this is another thing I have with porn. There's more. The newer porn, like Pornhub porn, it's in the camera more. Yeah. It's a girl talking to you.

And in a scenario where she's in where they call it jerk-off encouragement where she's just talking to the camera and trying to get you off. There is one weird category which is racist jerk-off encouragement and it's like a white girl talking to a black guy jerking off and calling him names.

I mean, those are out there which means there's people who like that just people like virtually everything yes well my thing also is like the porn to me why porn is not exciting is I know they're gonna fuck this is two people who are here to fuck I would rather watch a porn that's like a 90 minute movie and then they have serious sex well know these to do that they these to go people would go when when Deep Throat came out Johnny Carson is a photo of Johnny Carson in line to see Deep Throat when Deep Throat came out like celebrities actors people would go to see it as a movie that's right was

before porn had become stigmatized it was like it used to be these girly movies that people would show. They would call them stag movies, stag parties. And then there was theaters that people would go to to see these horrible things. And someone said let's make an actual film. And that's what Deep Throat was. And all the Emmanuel stories. There was like series.

And there was, I mean, Caligula was with Peter O'Toole and Malcolm McDowell. And it's a fucking porn movie. There'soole and Malcolm McDowell, and it's a fucking porn movie. Yeah, basically. There's a scene where Malcolm McDowell, I remember this from Caligula,

that his sister, who he was having sex with in real life, Caligula, is, you know, she's the, whatever, the empress of Rome, and he's the emperor. And he comes up, there's two or three guys jerking off into a golden bowl, and she's putting it on her skin, you know, because it's good for her skin. And Caligula goes over and he takes a little lick of it. He's like, hey, it's very good. And this was a fucking movie with real stars, and it had real production.

It was like a decent movie about Caligula. It's just there's long fucking scenes that have no plot in them. movie about Caligula. It's just there's long fucking scenes that have no plot in them. It's interesting that that wasn't really that long ago, but the tone and the way we view porn has changed radically. Like, the idea of having a film where, you know,

that was what sunk Vincent Gallo's career. Do you know he did that film Brown Bunny? That's right. Yeah. With Chloe. Yeah. How do you say her last name? Seven Yee. She's great. She's great. Yeah. She sort of survived it, but that fucked him forever.

I mean, he was a great actor. He did some great stuff. He directed, too. Yeah, he's really interesting. And he directed Brown Bunny. He did Buffalo 66. Didn't Steve Bannon produce it? I think he produced Brown Bunny.

Really? Yeah, somebody told me that. Oh, Google that. Yeah. We need to know if that's true. I think he did. But so in Brown Bunny, Chloe gives him a real blowjob. You see it, and he comes on her face and the whole deal.

It's crazy. And people got up, and they left the movie theater. They're like, what the fuck? Which is really weird, because if you shoot someone in the face in a movie, like go to see a Quentin Tarantino movie, you see someone getting their fucking face bashed in on a mantelpiece. No problem. Zero problem.

That's not real. But it looks real. So what if it was a rubber dick and it shot a silicone load in someone's face? I want one of those. Well, there's a movie called- They're available. There's a French movie called Blue is the Warmest Color. Oh, yeah.

And it's got these extremely graphic lesbian scenes And um But then I heard They told everybody it was all prosthetics We put pasties on our nipples And there was a prosthetic pussy But you don't see it when you're seeing it You're watching you know straight up

Does that make people feel better if it's fake I don't know it is a weird thing I don't know why they feel they want to know That it's not really happening. There's a... What's his name? Kubrick. When he made Eyes Wide Shut, the idea was like, let's make a porn with huge stars. I jerk off

that movie all the time. Yes. Seriously. That, I think, was sort of his angle. Like a real sex movie with serious sex in it. It's very bizarre our attitudes towards violence as opposed to our attitude towards sex. Sex, you can have sex in it. It's very bizarre our attitudes towards violence as opposed to our attitude towards sex. You can have sex in a movie. No one has a problem with it as long as you don't

actually see a penis and a vagina. You're supposed to just see the hands touching the chest and the head going down and the woman going, oh. Which women don't immediately enjoy. It's like, uh-huh, okay. Nah, there you go. it's very odd that we have

this these like polar lines that we draw with that stuff yeah well you can you can see it in a film like you can see people having sex but you can't actually see penetration no there's an amazing movie called stranger by the lake i've told you about it's a french film it's a french gay thriller and it's like a hitchcock movie it's a amazing movie and it has really graphic sex like a guy holding a guy's ankles up over his head and like fucking him in the ass and there's cum shots and everything it's wild it's not for the faint of heart but it's like a great movie it's a thriller it's it's a wonderful is it actual sex are they actually having sex i mean i don't i didn't watch the making of it, but... But does it look like it? It looks like...

I mean, there's a guy, like, sucking a guy off, and there's real cum shooting out of dicks. Wow. But it's also, like, a thriller whodunit. It's a great film. It's called Stranger by the Lake. I got the poster at my house. It's great.

There's, like, little cartoon dicks everywhere. Is that on Apple TV? I don't know. I found it on the Criterion channel. But 4th of July is on my website. Oh, louisck.com. And the deleted scenes is sucking and fucking the whole thing. That's right.

For all the parents. That's right. Bobby Kelly sucking off Nick DiPaolo. That's right. Bobby Kelly was great in it, too. Isn't he amazing? He's really good. He's so good.

Really good. Bobby, I'll put him in anything. He's the best. I love Bobby. He was one of those guys that didn't like picking up Alex Rodriguez. He can play third. I don't care where he plays. He's got to be on the team.

It's just we had to have Bobby in the movie. And he fit perfectly as his sponsor. Sponsee. Sponsee. And it's a cool thing about the movie is that it's about AA on some level, but most AA movies have tropes. They have an AA meeting where everybody feels great, and then the guy in the movie who's alcoholic

always has to relapse. That's the only storyline acceptable for alcoholics is he falls off the wagon and then comes back. This movie's not about that, but it's about the AA things that are a pain in the ass in AA. Sponsors are always very sage and sponsees are very innocent. But in this movie,

we're showing when you first get your first sponsor that you don't know, what the fuck do I say to this guy? And Bobby plays a very throbbing with need, desperate alcoholic. And Joe, who's barely sober and barely contained, is having to help this fucking guy who he doesn't

really get to know or get along with that much right so it was fun to show that anyway yeah bobby was great i made a special for bobby we a stand-up special oh really yeah we shot it a couple months ago i guess when does that come out i'm gonna it's gonna be on my website and i'm um i gotta edit it it'll probably come in september oh. I'd love to have Bobby on, too. I've never had him on. I've known Bobby forever. I worked with him when we were both in our early, early 20s, back when he was living at a house for mentally handicapped people. He was, like, helping these people,

and we took these two girls back to his place to fool around. So we went back to Bobby's room, me and Bobby and these two girls. Were they mentally handicapped? No, they were regular girls. They're regular girls. So what happened? Well, we were fooling around with these girls, and one of the mentally challenged guys was in the hallway,

and something was going on, and he had to go out there and talk to them. Oh, wow. What's going on in there, fellas? What is it? I'm trying to fuck these girls. What are you, retarded? What's going on in there, fellas? What is it? I'm trying to fuck these girls. What, are you retarded? What's your fucking problem?

No, Bobby's had an amazing life, and he's overcome a lot. He was raised in foster homes. He was abused. He was in a prison for kids, a prison farm. He's had a really hard life. And now he's a father and a husband. I mean, because he's been through a lot he like when i i always knew bobby when he first i he started in boston after we did yes and i'd gone to new york you'd

gone to la well i was there with him yeah so you know you were a couple you were a few years he used to open for me that's how we met these girls he was in al and the monkeys right dane cook that's right that was their sketch team yeah Al Delbenny. Yeah. Al Delbenny, Dane Cook, and Bobby. And what they would do is they would do sketches, and then they would each do like five minutes of standup, and then I would headline. And that's how me and Bobby became friends. Well, I knew Bobby when he moved to New York, and he was this kind of really like keyed

up guy. I kind of cringed when I met him, because he was just like, do it! You know, he's just so, do it was a lot yeah i just saw him as a guy who's a lot but he's funny on stage but then i was going through a divorce i was having a really hard time and you never know how much it shows you know i thought that's my own thing but he came out of nowhere he came up to me at the comedy cellar and he said can i talk to you and he put pulling me aside he said i know that um he said i went through a lot of hard things in my life and i learned that journaling is what can get you through a lot of things helps you form your thoughts and i know you're going through a divorce and i can see it's hurting you and so i buy you

this and he gave me a journal and i just fucking cried in the middle of comedy so i was like what how can you do this to me right now and i've've loved him since then. He's like a brother to me. I love this guy. So yeah. And then the movie he's, the thing that's great about directing him is that he's a solid, he's an automatic, he's an extremely good actor. And so you, you abuse a guy like that. Like if you're shooting a scene with a lot of people and you've given everybody their turn, he goes last. He always goes last. Cause I can count on him. That's awesome. And then it's dark and you're like, you have to get it in one take. I have no time for you.

And he goes, it's all right. It's all right. And he nails it. That's great. Yeah. I knew him back when he was hot Bobby, when he was skinny Bobby. He was a gorgeous boy. He was a handsome fella.

Yes. He still is. He's got a handsome face. Yeah. He's got a handsome face. He's just eating himself into an odd shape. Yeah. Well, he's working on fella. Yes. He still is. He's got a handsome face. Yeah, he's got a handsome face. He's just eating himself into an odd shape. Yeah. Well, he's working on that.

Is he? Yeah, he is. What's he doing? I mean, a lot of heroin is his thing, but he's doing good. Heroin. Beautiful. He's shooting heroin. Amphetamines.

Yeah. That's the move. Amphetamines, everything. He just gets speeded up all the time. You don't want to eat. You're always running around. If your heart holds out, you'll get ripped. No, he looks good. He looks good. He's been walking. He's living up in the country. He's like a new man. He bought a tiny... of time you don't want to eat you're always running around if your heart holds out no he

looks good he's been walking he's like living up in the country he's like a new man he's glowing a tiny like uh house and put it in an acre in new hampshire in the woods and he's up there the whole summer with his family a lot of people that live in the city eventually wind up going the opposite they wind up going to like a fucking house in the country. I'm dying to get out. Yeah It's funny I feel like when I was I grew up in Whitman small town and I was obsessed with Springsteen like get out of this town born to run and I did it and now I still listen to Springsteen and still get moved But now it's like I gotta get a home in the end with a with grass and see the star

It's like the same motivation, but before it was to go to the city, but now I want to be in the country. Yeah, my friend Jeff has always been like this diehard New York City guy. I love the energy of this city. He's lived there his whole life, and then he got a place on Fire Island, and it's like I couldn't live in the city

if I didn't have this place now. No, it keeps you able to. I can stay in the city because I have my place. Yeah, you get that decompression. That's what I found. Well, I moved to Colorado for a brief amount of time. In like 2009, I lived in Gold Hill, which is like 3,000 feet above Boulder. Like I went full out, 148 acres, like log house, the whole deal.

But my wife got pregnant and you can't, like if you are a person who lives at sea level and you go to wife got pregnant, and you can't, like, if you are a person who lives at sea level, and you go to 8,000 feet and you're pregnant, it's like you have the flu every day. It was horrible. Like, she was wrecked. And then we went back to L.A. for a few days, and she was normal.

And then I realized, ah, fuck. And so we had a bail. Can't do it. Yeah, it was rough. No, it was good. But, man, living up there was fucking magical. It was like everything just went. Well, human animals are, we're part of the earth.

Yeah. It's our home and cities are not natural. Right. You don't see, it's man-made lighting. As soon as it gets dark, it's man-made lighting everywhere. And you have to turn off the lights to find darkness. You don't have this natural this thing of like you know uh the there's certain parts of the day where the breeze comes like if

you live anywhere on a coast there's a sea breeze and then there's the hot part of the day and there's you know and it's it's and you're watching the grass go green and then gray you're watching the trees die it's part of it tells you your how life works. I think it makes you less afraid of dying that you watch everything die and renew every year and you touch you get a sense of what speed you're actually supposed to be running at because the city life and also

the online life and the phone life is overworking everybody's brains and their systems. People are texting right before bedtime and but being out there in nature where it's like no it's getting dark cool off it's getting dark there's no sense of getting dark in the city it's you know yeah um you're watching the world go to sleep and then the different sounds you're hearing the birds go to bed and then insects come out all

those things are like are reminding you how your system actually what's going on in your chemistry is connected to all that yeah there's also a thing about going into the woods and being around nature where it's like it's like a nourishment that your body's not normally getting it's like you feel like you're getting like a little something like oh yeah i need this like there's something in this that like your body is supposed to interface with yeah it's good for your physical health there's all these studies yeah not just your mental health. Well, if people don't see the sun for a certain amount of time, they go insane.

So if you think about the original people, they saw that six sky of stars, like that really full sky of stars, was normal for every human being to see that every night. And a lot of people never see it, never see one star. If you live in a city, you don't see the night sky. Unless it's Los Angeles. You see stars everywhere there.

Yes. Blah, blah, blah. Killing their wives and the guy. I went to Hawaii once. Went to the Keck Observatory. It's on the big island and it's way up there. You have to drive literally through the clouds. As we were driving, I was like, fuck, it's cloudy.

This is going to suck. We're not going to see anything. And then you literally drive through the clouds. As we were driving, I was like, fuck, it's cloudy. This is gonna suck. We're not gonna see anything. And then you literally drive through the clouds. And the image that you get, because the Big Island uses all diffused lighting because of the Keck Observatory. So when you get up there, the view,

we are at 13,000 feet or something like that, the view of space is insane. You really feel like you're in a spaceship. You don't feel like you're on earth anymore. You feel like you're in a ship with a glass ceiling and you're just passing through the Milky Way. I mean, it's fucking wonderful. Yeah.

Because we're used to this perspective that you're standing on earth and that's up, but we were really looking across at other people and you're looking looking down at the earth that you're tacked down to. But in reality, you're hanging upside down. Yeah. And you're really hanging out into everything, everything in the whole universe. It's not above your head. If you look like this, that's the really correct perspective.

Yeah. Well, that's why all these ancient cultures were obsessed with constellations, and we't give a fuck about them that's why they built shit like that to get up yes yeah and also built things that mimicked the constellations like the mayans and the egyptians the way they formulated their structures it all like aligned with certain constellations and it was very important to them well think about back when people were, before there was skyscrapers, airplanes, that you couldn't go up. You could only go like six feet high. Right, right.

And you could maybe build something that was like, I don't know, three, like a castle. Yeah. That's kind of high, but those pyramids, I know I sound like an idiot. It sounds like you guys fucking dropped acid while I was watching OJ. It just got wacky in here.

That was hills, this is mountains, right? Yes. Mountains are high. Yeah, but they're high and you don't have like a drop or you're not really seeing. Right. And also, unless you lived in the mountains, then that became normal. But the ability to go, let's go the way the fuck up there and see from up there and feel like where how where is the sky yeah it's also very humbling to people to be in count to encounter like like undeniable majesty

like the insane majesty of the universe like that's how people are like around mountains around the ocean things that are so epic that it's like it calms people down in a way. That's why people are so chill around beaches. Yeah, it heals. Like beach communities are always like kind of relaxed. Yeah, this thing is telling you over and over again. You ain't shit. There's a force that you ain't, it doesn't give a fuck.

It doesn't give a fuck. You're a speck and there's this force, this incredible force. When waves get high, you're just watching them crash. And it's just telling you without you're even thinking about it intellectually. Fuck, okay, I get it. Put it in perspective. If you think you are very, very important, and then you're on a mountain, you're like, oh, I'm not important at all.

No. This means nothing. No. And nature's brutal. Yeah. Nature's brutal. Yeah. It kills.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know? The things that you encounter, too, when you're in the woods and you're going to walk on a mountain and you're seeing these animals they're just running around just trying not to get eaten and that's just eating

and keeping their ears up like anything out there? nothing? let me eat a little bit more that's why I love lions because I was in Africa once I went on a safari and every animal is like that

they're all twitchy they don't sleep much every animal is worried because their brother got eaten the day before and they're like, it's going to be me. It's going to be me. I fucking know it. It's going to be me. It is going to be them. They're not being anxious. They're going to die

in a mouth. 100%. But lions don't have a predator. They have none. So they have this just fucking cool, they kind of blink slow and they look around and they don't give a fuck. They're just calm. And they'll sleep sometimes after eating it.

Like after eating a thousand pounds of meat, they sleep for like three or four days. Wow. Yeah. I saw a film about lions. It was very interesting. It's called The Lion King. I don't think that's real.

No, it's real. They don't have dicks. You notice that about The Lion King? What? The Disney Lion King, you don't see their hogs. You don't see the sack. Nothing. They're just neutered.

That's bullshit. I'd like to see one Disney animated animal movie. Because it's always about the weak creature. Yeah. Who's like, I wish I could be like my big brothers, but I'm not, you know. I'm sensitive. That's anti-Semitic. So he goes out and- Yeah, he's like, because I'm not, you know, I'm sensitive. That's anti-Semitic. So he goes out and, hey, because I'm Jewish, I can't, I'm prey.

But then they go off into the world and they find a friend. I'd like to see one where they go off and five minutes later they just get eaten. That's what would happen. They just get fucking eaten. That's the one that's supposed to get eaten. Yes. Supposed to be. The twitchy one is the one that gets away.

That's right. Yeah. No. That's what I got here. That's what you got here? I'm twitchy. Twitchy? I'm the twitchy guy. Can I ask a question? Can I just side rail this for a second? Yes. Hit me straight, Joe, because I get a lot of YouTubes, emails. Do I

have the two worst episodes ever of the Joe Rogan experience? Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you? Why do you do this? A lot of emails, a lot of tweets. Well, stop reading that shit. You're positive. This is what's making it bad. It was great until this moment. Oh, what? No, this is fun.

So this moment, it was great? This is compelling. No, you saying that is what made it bad. All right, that's right. Because it's turning it on you, and then you're opening the door to people who go, you're the worst, Joe Loose. And then you're going to read that and feel like shit. Well, sometimes they come right to your door and tell you.

They just knock, and they're like, hey, man, that was really bad. I'm like, I know. Sorry. I fucked up. Do you read the comments? Is that what it is? Not comment. Yes.

That's a yes. No, I don't go on the comments. I don't read comments. You don't read these. Tweets, emails, direct emails. No, I won't even go near these. You shouldn't even read the tweets. No, you shouldn't.

Well, but sometimes they write, you're fantastic. You shouldn't read that either. Is it worth all the negative, though? Sure. It is. Really? Yeah. But when you hear them laugh when you're on stage and you kill, you know you're great.

You know you're doing great. Oh, that, yeah. So what do you give them for? Say thank you. I tell young comics that it's actually irresponsible. I'm 40. To look at social media and to look at the stuff people are saying about comedy and saying about yourself on social media because you have a responsibility to your audience like when you do stand up the people who are in the audience have a fucking vote on my act like they actually have a direct

influence i give a giant fuck about them they paid money and they came they fucking traveled parked a car got a babysitter and they're sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers listening so if i see a face that goes i fucking see it and it may not change my joke entirely but there's a there's a gland in me that takes all of that in and you know what i mean in the aggregate and changes and it's not about their acceptance sometimes it's about going to what upsets them and pushing past it but they're involved and i have to keep that clean that it's about me and them yeah if i read something by somebody who didn't come to the show

who doesn't go to comedy shows who's reacting to something that was written about a show a person who wrote it to get clicks yeah somebody who's professionally disgruntled and says this was a bad show and then somebody tweets yeah fuck that guy and i'm letting that person outweigh the rights of my audience it's irresponsible so i don't even think you should it's not about reading it and then resisting it you shouldn't even be aware of it you should just stay fuck those people if they're not at there right they're not involved i couldn't agree more and i think that it's also it'll change the way you do comedy if you take that if you internalize that yeah if you're picturing the jokes you're telling to this audience going out into the world and what are they going to say

about it and again in a world that it's a sport to get upset yeah it's a it's a soothing fun sport and i have no problem with it. They can play that game together, and that's fine. But if you let it actually change, if you actually take it in, it's not, you know. And they don't mean it. None of these people mean it. It's just a momentary, yeah, fuck him, and then they move on to something

else. They're not invested in it. You said something to me once that I tell people all the time. You said that Twitter's just talk, but it's written down. So it seems like it's more than just talk. Because people always talk. That's right. Like, oh, that fucking sucked.

Or, oh, he's a piece of shit. That's right. They say things like that normally. It's normal. But you're not aware of it. That's right. It's a normal thing that people do. It's even healthy. Yeah.

As talk. This is something that my ex-girlfriend who's very close to me still, Blanche Gardin, she's a French comedian. And she's very big in France. She's huge there. And she had a bit that I can't remember. It was in French. And I don't know. You know.

About that Twitter. That there used to be talk. And talk is air. It goes out. People say, that guy fucking sucks. Just to each other. Right. And it's gone.

They don't have to mean it. You know. But then it's committed to the Library of Congress. And the person who can't even. The person who wrote it can't even take it back. Right. They're like, I got to stand behind that now. Yeah. And then they got to double down on it.

And as comedians and entertainers, we're supposed to have these people just yapping about us. Yeah, fuck Joe Rogan. Somebody who's even a fan. Yeah. Might just, just to enjoy his beer for the moment. Right. Fuck him. Yeah.

But then if you showed up there, you'd be like, oh my God, Jor-El. I fucking love him. But the fact that comedians are partly responsible because they're on Twitter and they want to be liked there too. Yeah. And they want to be there overseeing the conversations, looking for somebody saying something bad about them and then responding. Are you fucking high?

It's crazy. It's kind of conflated things i think twitter it's made it's and it's not i don't think that anybody on twitter means anything they say i don't believe that any i don't think a single tweet is really sincere it's just a calculation of what's this going to do and it's based in fear and hope which are both dumb things but it's not really like a hope, which are both dumb things. But it's not really like a sincere, this is how I feel. Right.

So if you give it all that, you know. And comedians that tweet jokes, the same exact format and type, and then tweet a political opinion in the same thing. That's one of the reasons I think folks have started to take jokes seriously. Because there are comedians that want to be funny and taken seriously. So they're doing both. So, of course, people are confused by it. And it's not in a club or at least a theater where it's like where comedy is this really, really fun experiment.

Just for this one night, we're not going to worry about offending each other. We're not going to worry about what's right or wrong. We're just going to talk shit. Yeah. And we're going to go on. I'm really good at it. I i can talk like you wouldn't believe i'm going to astonish you with how much i shouldn't be saying this right that's the game but if you translated it to text and put it out like a statement like it's a statement right right senator yeah it's just not gonna other people aren't gonna take it right yeah you know well

that's the problem with taking things out of context always. Yeah. Yeah. It's like in the context of a comedy show, it's like really it only should exist in that. Oh, of course. It's a great, it's a great environment. So last night was really fun. I really enjoyed your set.

Oh, thanks. Very, very fun. Even though the creek in the cave was 150 degrees. It was so fucking hot. It was so fucking hot. I just texted Rebecca today. I said, what, how much does it cost to fix the AC? Yes, I'll pitch in with you. Yeah, let's do it. Yes. Okay, we'll fix it. Yes. I just texted Rebecca today. I said, how much does it cost to fix the AC? I'll pitch in with you.

Yeah, let's do it. Okay, we'll fix it. I got $100. Because it's a great club. It's really fun. It's a very nice little intimate club. Yeah. And she's great, too.

Rebecca Trent, yeah. It's a really fun place to practice, too. It's a fun place to fuck around. Well, it's fun for me because I've been doing this hour in theaters, and almost only in theaters, and while and in Europe in theaters. So this was the first time I did it in a club and not only a club, but that sort of stanky, sweaty, Austin

freaky audience club. And the first show that you were at, I was kind of big and presentational, that theater version, and I could tell they were like, easy, buddy. It didn't seem like that at all. It felt like that to me. The second show I calmed down and did clubby again it's important when you're developing a set i think to do clubs

intermittently yeah i say that all the time i say that it's like cross training like you should run long miles you should also lift weights there's a lot of different things you should do and if you're a comic like i see guys that only do theaters then they only do it for their crowd i'm like man i think got to go to the clubs. I think it's very important. You have to. It keeps it real because a theater, you can be in your own world, and you get a little bit looking up, and you start pacing around.

But a club, they're looking at it, eating nachos, and you're like, I'm right here. Please don't leave me. Please don't leave me. This is why I do clubs exclusively. Yes. Good move. Yeah.

They're always like, come to the garden. Plus all the seats. Yeah. That's the other thing. That's right. Yeah. Are you touring now? Are you on tour?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do a mix of like last night I did the Vulcan. So I'm always working in town. Tuesday and Wednesday nights I always do the Vulcan. And I always do clubs.

And I'll do clubs on the road too. Like I just did Stand Up Live in Phoenix. Oh, that's a great one. I love that place. But this week, Friday night, I'm doing an arena in Salt Lake City.

I think it's very important for comics to do little places too. Do a 90-seater sometimes. Yes. I can sell those out. I like places like that. I like 1,500 seats

is beautiful. That's great. That's a good number. It's fun to be able to like in January I'm doing like Chicago theater I'm doing the Dolby in LA

I'm doing the Garden in January at the end of the month just one show there and I like the big rooms it's a fun feeling but you shouldn't get it shouldn't become

your gear it shouldn't become your main gear I say the same thing all the time you can't help yourself huh no well it's funny i'm throwing some jokes in i do all right you're doing great you're very funny joe's hilarious he's got two specials on youtube yes i hate myself one two punch this year's material and i hate

myself fucking great specials thank you fucking great just free on YouTube and he's on to another hour now. What is your writing process Joe? Do you sit down and write or do you like try to come up with ideas when you're out and about like would you a? Little bit I used to sit down and write a lot more, but now it's like you guys know It's like you get I'm 22 years in now so once you're 20 years, it feels like you kind of just go, that's a funny thing that happened. I'm going to talk about that tonight. And you can kind of, and now I am selling enough tickets that I have people there to see me,

which makes it easier and funner. And you kind of work it out for them. And then you exactly, you go to the seller where they don't know you and you're like, okay, this is killing here also. So I'll write a little bit. I do a lot of listening to sets. I try it out on stage, listen to a set, and go, that killed.

I tell, I think listening to sets is the most important thing. For me, anyways, because as comics, you always watch, in the back of the room when you're watching a comic, you always go, oh, he should say this. He should say that. And when you listen to a set, you're doing that to yourself. Sure. You're like, there needs to be a joke here.

Because sometimes bits, it feels like there's like a rhythm to it where you're like there needs to be something there i don't know what it is but there's definitely a space there and so it's a lot of listening to sets and just going up but the longer you're in it and the more amount of success you have i feel like the more you're like i'm going to make this work and then i'll go back to old bits and be like i can make this work now right then I'll go back to old bits and be like, I can make this work now. I couldn't then. That's a confidence. Just knowing that you plus the bit is going to work out. Yeah.

Just give it time. Plus time. That's the scariest thing is once you release a special and then you start from scratch. Yes. Oof. Yes. This last one, the one I just put out in December,

I had pandemic gigs that were rescheduled for March and onward. And I put the special out in December and I quit the tour in December. But I needed a new hour because the special was out. And I only had like two months to come up with a whole hour, which I've never tried doing before. But I watched that Beatles thing, the the beatles uh get back did you watch it no it's like eight hours or something yeah who produced that uh it's on apple uh apple tv i don't know who oh it's peter jackson yeah peter jackson so he took all the raw footage from the let it be recordings and uh and they look like you're there. It's amazing.

And he showed how they developed Let It Be. So you watch them arrive in this studio that didn't really work, and you watch them, and John's a little fucked up, and he's with Yoko, and they're not really getting along, but they keep sitting down, strapping on the guitars, and playing. And they have a few ideas for songs, and in like two weeks they're going to shoot Let It Be. And they just play.

And then George quits, just leaves the Beatles. And so they play without him for a while. And then he comes back. But the thing is, in the movie, they keep X-ing out the days and just showing that they showed up for work every fucking day, took songs that were just ideas, and turned them into some of the greatest fucking beatle songs then they went on the roof and just played it and it was

fucking great so that inspired me i thought if i approach it that way like i just must have an hour and two months and i was going to the cellar every night and i was working more on paper and more analyzing the sets and taking notes after a set saying, here's what worked and here's... And I gave myself these disciplines. Like once I had 20 really strong minutes, I said, you can't touch it now. You can't do that material anymore. Because you're just going to get stuck.

You're just going to want to kill and go home. Right. So I'd take bits that were dying or bits that I didn't want to do. And I'd say, that's tonight. You got bad bits and new ideas. It was horrible. And you go up and you go, oh. That's why you got bad bits and new ideas it was horrible and you go up and you go oh that's why you got to stay off twitter that's right come to that show yeah and then you're like oh you have to be willing to bomb to really write yeah and then those bits got

stronger and stronger that turned into a new 20 of all shit bits that turned into a strong 20 put that aside and then two 20s and i kept doing that until I had a loose hour. And then, you know, and then I went on tour all over Europe and some of those crowds, there's a glass ceiling to how much you're going to kill because they don't all understand English. But you keep, it makes you better. And then I go home, go back to the cellar, put the hour aside and work again, new material, new material.

And they keep adding it back in and, you know.'s your writing process like i mean that's it i i come i know when i have a thought that's i know when i have a thought it's really funny i have i know when i have a thought that it's a bit right like that's a bit right but i don't write it i don't think about i avoid thinking about it i just write a key word to remind me to talk about it. I need to do it in front of an audience so that they, because when they're there, I'm like, I really want them. They're the goal. Yeah.

So they help me also with their reaction. They help me figure out how to say it. Instead of imagining in my head, here's what i would say so they're right here you got to tell them so i try it in front of them and get some version and sometimes if it gets silence there's some silence that bits get or groans or upset feelings where i go that's a great bit i know it is it's dying but i'll do it night after night because i know somewhere in that bad era that i created there's a great that's the all the bits I've done that are like great bits in my feeling started as they don't want to even hear this.

They don't even want to hear it. They don't even want to hear the subject. They don't want to hear the joke. The joke dies the first time. And I'm like, that's going to be one of the great ones. The ones that get laughs right away, they're great. You know, thank you. But they don't develop as much. I don't work as hard on them.

You just depend. They're like a fastball. Got it. Well, you worked with Rock a lot, right, when he was doing that where he would have comics come and give notes. Yeah, I never did that with him. You never did that with him? I worked on his show. I did sketches on his show, on the Chris Rock show.

Oh, so you never sat... Never did the stand-up stuff oh i thought you did no no no no i mean he's one of the greats i've always oh for sure we've talked about bits together um but i always liked how he does that and he gets shit for that and i'm bringing comics yeah i'm like that's a great idea when i worked on his show we did the monologue so it was like that so i got a sense of how he did that and it wasn't us coming up with bits It was him with guys in the room And then he just be it's a little bit of an audience

But guys he trusts and he'd start talking and we go right right and we'd feed him little little lines But it's his bit mm-hmm, but he had other brains there to give him little little tingles and little lines Yeah, give him or give him another direction for it It's funny when guys want to dismiss guys that are really big that do something like that. They do that. They're like, ah, this guy's writing for them. Whatever the process is.

Yeah, like, what are you saying? Like, it's a genius idea to do it. Yes. To me, bouncing bits, like, me, Sam Rill, and Norman, we bounce bits all the time. But to me, it's like, you're going to bounce it off the audience. Like you said, they have input. Why not get input from professional comedians?

Of course. They're better at comedy than the audience is. Yeah, of course. No, when I wrote my series, Louis, which is on my website for $30. LouisCK.com? Yes, LouisCK.com. That's where you buy the film, isn't it?

That's also where you can buy Fourth of July, a film that him and I made. It comes with some audio commentary and deleted scenes. That's right. Yeah, that's a good deal. 15 bucks, good deal. When I was doing Louis, I wrote every episode of the series. But I had people, Vernon Chapman, Pamela Adlon, who I depended on,

who would just sit on the couch, be there while I'm writing, and I'd tell them the story, tell them stuff. And they'd help me in dialogue, Help me get it to the right place. Or tell me when it's like, that's not interesting. Or whatever. They help you edit a little bit. Don't you have a... I have this so bad.

I have a hard time recognizing bits sometimes in life where I have stories that I tell for years. Being like, the funniest thing happened. You got to hear this. And then comics are like, do you do that on stage? And I'm like, somehow that didn't even fucking occur to me. And then you do it, and it's like a huge bit. I got a great story about that. I was in the back bar at the comedy store with Ron White,

and Ron White, this was back when he was drinking, Ron White comes in and he's telling me this fucking story about when I was in the Army. So it was back when he was in Hawaii. He was going regularly to visit these prostitutes. And he had gone like every weekend for like fucking years. And I don't know how long it was. And then someone goes, you know, a lot of those are drag queens that are blowing you.

I'm not doing it any justice. The bit is fucking fantastic. And he's telling me telling us I am fucking crying it's just me and him and I'm crying laughing I go do you tell that on stage he goes no man I don't think my audience would go into that one I go what are you talking about

I'm fucking crying I'm your audience I go I'm a Ron White fan you should tell that on stage so he immediately goes from this conversation right up in the OR, right into it, and it fucking crushes. Wow. He's piss drunk. He's hilarious.

And he just goes right into the story. And, I mean, it fucking murders. People have a hard time breathing. He comes off stage and goes, well, I guess you were right. No, it's not because sometimes I think the audience, you're like, they don't want to hear this. This isn't good. And you need someone to be like, I think they do. Yeah.

I think one reason for that is that those are great. That's an example of a bit where he was vulnerable. Yes. And he was unsure and he was in a fucked up place. Comedians are funniest when they're vulnerable. Yeah. And when they don't know what's, when they're not sure about how they even feel, about what they're talking about.

That's the funniest a comedian gets. That's what I love about Joe. He's vulnerable the whole time he's on stage. And here. And here, too. Here it's a problem. On stage, it's great. Can I ask a question real quick?

I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead. You got a big story. No, ask your comedian questions. Comedians want to be confident. They want to feel like rock stars. They want to be smooth up there.

They want to be like, that's going to kill because I'm good. And so that's the stuff you go to because you're also arming yourself. Yes. It's a scary thing. It takes somebody else to go, you know that thing that you're horribly embarrassed about? That's going to completely destroy. That's going to be the thing that they love. They're going to love you for that.

Yes. Not for how cool you are or how clever you are and how well you can, you know, observe things. Observational comedy is very egotistical. It's very like, I know how this really works. And it makes you seem cool. And there are audiences that get off on that. But if you go like, I don't fucking get this one bit and i'm scared of it and i this was a horrible thing that happened to me you're gonna they're gonna they're gonna love you it's

it's sharing you know it's the thing that phil hoffman says in the movie uh the only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone when you're uncool yeah that's right yeah that's so the weird thing is the the desire to arm yourself to try to be cool it's just like it's very bad for you. Well, like comedy specials are like glitzy, amazing looking. It's,

you kind of tune, it kind of distances you from the comic. Watching a guy really go up there. Like I've had shows where I've shot two shows for a special and the first show, I'm like, that's the worst set I ever had. I hated it. And then the second show,

I'm like, I am the best comedian that ever lived. And then a little time goes by and I watched them both. I'm like that's the worst set I ever had I hated it and then the second show I'm like I am the best comedian that ever lived and then a little time goes by and I watch them both I'm like the first show was better yeah because I was struck I was like on please come on and the audience was like look at the poor guys like sometimes at the comedy cell has changed a lot the audiences sometimes they're like whole tables of young women there's just a different vibe than it used to be. Some nights, some nights it's the old cellar, but some nights I'm up there doing this kind of very contrarian upsetting stuff that I do. It's all I have.

And they don't like it. And they're, and they're, but there's like 18 people out of the 90 who are fucking howling, not only because they like my jokes, but because they're like, this is my favorite night. I'm getting to watch him fucking eat it. Because I'm so uncomfortable. I'm like, please let me do this joke.

And I think that's more fun to watch, in a sense. It's certainly more fun to watch if you're a fan. Yes. Yeah. Especially if you've seen great sets where someone's killing. I remember I saw Hicks once at Nick's Comedy Stop, Yeah, especially if you've seen great sets where someone's killing. I remember I saw Hicks once at Nick's Comedy Stop, and he went on right after this guy, Larry Norton, comic on a Harley.

I remember Larry Norton. Yeah. He worked in Boston. Yes. My name is Larry Norton. I'm a comic on a Harley. Yes. I'm just like all he is.

I got a wife and a girlfriend, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So he had these very straightforward straightforward jokes very funny guy like it does great with the audience Yeah, and then Hicks goes up and he's really Patient and really dark and people start leaving and they start leaving in droves I mean he cleared out there was what was Nick's seat like 300 people about thing. He probably cleared 190 people and I'm not exaggerating so by the time of the set There's Greg Fitzsimmons me and a couple other comics that probably don't do comedy anymore And we are fucking crying laughing and this is one moment in his act where he's doing

I forget what the bit was. It was like Satan having sex with John Davidson or something like that. Yeah, I think it was Britney Spears or no, somebody before her Debbie Gibson. Yeah, there was that too. And then so he's taking a shit. I forget what the bit was. So he's in the middle like

and people just the whole table should get up and he goes he looks up and he goes, yeah, this generally clears the room. But if you're a comic watching that or a Bill Hicks fan, it's much more fun than watching him kill. I was just so astonished at how calm he was while he was bombing. He bombed a lot. Yeah. He was used to it.

I opened for him at the San Francisco Punchline once. And the first show he just annihilated. And it was used to it. I opened for him at the San Francisco punchline once and the first show He just annihilated and it was glorious to watch it was Elvis like but the rest of the week He was hard. Yeah, and he just his Watching him in his loneliness on stage with a crowd that just doesn't want to hear it was pretty special I was friends with his girlfriend. It was one of his girlfriends I was friends with his girlfriend was one of his girlfriends before he died and I remember she said that he just wanted to go back to the room and watch porn Like when he was on that's all he would do like he wouldn't go out with anybody you just know it wasn't very social

Yeah, it's just like and that loneliness was real it was like that that was his he was lost in his own head Well killing can hurt your act in a way. When you're really destroying, you just feel good and you're just getting off on it. And I do bits that can be very offensive, but I work on them really strategically so that everybody will like it. But it starts as an offensive idea, but then I forget that it was ever offensive because the bit's killing. So then I start doing the bit like, yeah, hey, man, it was a great bit. You loved this. And then I always hit some audience that goes like, what the fuck are you doing?

Don't talk about it. And I go, oh, that's right. People don't like this. So you need the bad in the room. It's very important. It's important to get feedback. I didn't mean to cut you off. What was your question? I didn't mean to not

let you cut me off. My question was, well, I feel like we started around the same time. My question, your story. No, his story was definitely on the way. See, this is what I'll hear. People are like, how dare you speak. But you're making it happen. No, tell me your story.

It's not a story. It was a question. My question is, do you two think that you have enough interesting material to carry this show without me for five minutes while I piss do you think that people would be okay if I left for you should go piss yes it feels like I'm kind of the spine I'm. I'm going to take a turn after you. Okay, great. Well, we'll edit it out if we bomb. Okay. I'll be right. I've got pissing problems.

Go ahead. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, Joe. Say nice things about me while I'm here. We will, for sure. You'll be able to hear it because there's a monitor in the... Oh, fuck me. As soon as you walk out of here, we're going to start talking.

You all right? Poor boys. You're walking out to the hallway where Ari peed into a bottle. Oh, he's a bad person. We did a podcast and Ari grabbed, was it a whiskey bottle? Yeah. And he stuck his cock in it and filled it with piss in the hallway. And obviously this place is very secure.

We have security guards and cameras everywhere. So we got footage of him pissing in the bottle. Then we showed it to him. He was like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you filming me peeing? Why are you peeing in a bottle? Yeah, that's the real question. Why are you peeing in my fucking hallway when it's 10 steps to a bathroom?

10 steps. He's a strange boy. He's the oddest. He is. He's very strange. He's a very nice guy. I love him to death. He's a very sweet guy.

He really is. Misunderstood. He is misunderstood on purpose a little bit. I think he likes it. I think it's his comfort zone is misunderstood. There's a little of that there. But he's a very nice fella. Yeah, no, he's funny He's the best. He's an interesting guy. He'll just decide to

Abandon civilization entirely he gets rid of his phone He gets rid of his laptop and he'll just go to Asia for like three months at a time and ruin his career His podcast drops off like 50% he's a fuck his podcast drops off like 50 he's like fuck fucking fucking fuck yeah but that's good it's good balance no it's great it's for him it's very good because it just like it brings him back to just being a person you know and he's in asia no one knows who he is and he's wandering around and going to different places no idea where he's going he's just checking off stuff on a list and well and also when you have a career, your life is burning while you're sitting there trying to get somewhere.

You're pushing and pushing. You're getting older. Yeah. And so for him, his career might be bumpy, but he's seen a lot of fucking places. He's climbed mountains in Peru, and he's been to Bangkok or whatever the fucking, you know, all over the place.

There's also the thing that I think you need to do stuff, and sometimes comics just do comedy yeah constantly and you will run out of things to talk about because you're not having experiences that's right and you also you're not connecting with people in a very normal way you're just sort of connecting with people with material and then the people that are supporting you putting that material out so it's like you know you're talking to your manager and your agent your friends and then you're on a plane then you land in a new place it's like, you know, you're talking to your manager and your agent and your friends, and then you're on a plane,

then you land in a new place, it's the same thing. Say hi to the waitstaff. That's right. Meet the manager. Hey, what's up? And then it's back to the same thing, but you're not having life experiences. That's right.

Yeah. That's right. Well, that's where, you know, the guys used to do great authors, you know. Like, I've been reading, what's his name? Fucking Tropic of Cancer. reading uh what's his name fucking uh uh cat um tropic of cancer fucking blanking on his name great author you'd know his name right away and he wrote sexist and plexus fucking jamie henry miller henry henry miller wrote these really crazy, sexual, drunk-filled, fucked-up books.

Insane. And he lived in France. He just went to France with no money and lived in France in the 30s, in the 1930s, this guy. And just bummed around and wrote these amazing books. If you read Tropic of Cancer, it's describing women's pussies for many pages, you know, but beautifully, like say her cunt smelled like peanut butter,

but it looked like a rose, just crazy. It's the most graphic, sexually sick stuff I've ever read, beautifully written, and it was written in the 30s. But that's what those guys did. They just go dive into life and experience, and then he'd come out with a masterpiece That's what's interesting about when people would write things and they wouldn't have any input from

critics or audience or There was no one that was reading their stuff where they were reading the people writing they're reading their stuff on social media and the Dealing with these on these expectations and these other people's ideas and opinions. I think that's really fucking a lot of people up. Yeah. Being too engaged to the audience, I think, is the worst. It's really hurt art. Like a lot of people have stopped creating good artists.

Yeah. And you see them on Twitter all the time. It's like, put it down and please make something, you know. But some people do it because they want attention some people do art because they want that connection right so when they're on social media they're fine they don't need the work you know yeah that's the problem though is that you're you're you're just like it's just distracting it's just it's a form of procrastination you're just doing that instead of you don't realize it like i sat down to write

last night i did the show and then i generally i like to write um at nighttime when everyone's asleep in the house it just seems easier to me plus i don't feel guilty when i get high and so uh i get home and i'm i'm sitting in front of my computer and i'm looking at pool cues and muscle cars and i'm watching youtube and then i just talk to myself i go hey stupid like what are you doing you're here for work go to work and then once I started working I wrote something that was actually pretty funny and I'm like ah this wouldn't have come this wouldn't have come I have to sit there and I just felt like yes this is what you're supposed to do but it's that thing that Steven Pressfield talks about that resistance that you have to overcome there's this weird thing where

you just like know there's a thing you're supposed to do, but you just get distracted. You just want to, you know. I'd rather you have a laptop that's not even connected to the Internet. Yeah, I have my the one I write with. I can't. Also, my phone doesn't have my phone has text and email and phone and a map, but I don't have any. I can't see the news on my phone. I can't watch clips of

anything. Um, and it keeps my head clean. If I'm sitting at a computer that can go on the internet, it's just a cornucopia to just fucking yeah. Cars, vaginas, violence. Yeah. Every movie I ever wanted to see just dumb things. Um, but I, so I have a computer that can write and I can, I can only take, I can't even, I have to take stuff off with a USB drive because I'm staring at the thing that people get afraid of. And that's even more effective than experience is just silence.

Yeah. It's just quiet. And I think comedians in particular vibrate too much. And if you can get, if you can get used to just nothing and just going, that awful feeling that makes you grab for a distraction, that awful feeling is so valuable. If you can just sit in it and tap it and you go, fuck. Because you'll have a real profound thought.

I hate being in my body. I hate silence. I hate my dad, whatever it is. And then you go, now you're on to something. Yes. Now you're in your spirit. Now you've got something to say you know yeah and that feeling of boredom is just it's gone it's gone that's what when i see comedians at clubs and they're on their phones while they're waiting to go on

it's just you're just you're just corrupting your mind and you're not letting it rest if you just sit and watch the other comic and you just get it's like looking at the ocean watching a comic joke laugh joke laugh and you just get, and it's like looking at the ocean, watching a comic joke, laugh, joke, laugh. And you're getting the sense of that,

of that human ocean. Yeah. And then you're ready to go on stage. But if you're sitting there checking your DMS, did any girls like me last night? You're just, it's just a waste. Yeah. The internet is not resting your brain and it's not even really using it.

So I started taking piano lessons cause it felt like being at a computer and sitting at a piano and trying to pick out a piece of music, which I can't really do. It's exercising my brain and it's also massaging it, you know. Yeah. So I do crosswords and stuff. I like puzzles and that kind of thing. There's so many things you can do that aren't just passive surfing. And also letting the algorithm take you from thing to thing and this AI machine taking you from one dumb thing

to the next and making you dumber and dumber each thing that you watch. That's why I like things that require 100% focus, like archery and pool. Those are two things that I really like because when you're lined up on a shot and you got a long shot with pool, you're not thinking about anything else.

You know what I think? No, you gotta clear your mind. Yeah, it's a freeing sort of exercise and I don't think enough people do things like that. A thing where you're only, you're in that moment entirely, only thinking about that thing. That's what I love about jujitsu too, when someone's choking you.

You're not thinking about anything else. You're not thinking about other comed. That's what I love about jujitsu too. When someone's choking you, you're, you're not thinking about anything else. Thinking about other comedians and doing better than you. No, that's the worst. The fucking thoughts of comedians doing better than you are the fucking most useless, worthless thoughts.

Yes. Even when I'm doing jujitsu and I'm getting choked, I'm like, I wonder if other comics would have lasted longer in this. Like, am I tapping as well as Sam Morrill taps how often are you doing jujitsu it's been a while now I was going strong and then I've just been busy with road and podcast it's annoying but I used to go once a week for quite a while I did

join it yeah I love it I go there's a guy Diego Lopez who's a comedian and he was my trainer who's also a vegan by the, who's a comedian, and he was my trainer, who's also a vegan, by the way. And he was in the movie. He was a fighter. He was in the movie, but he got cut. Fourth of July, available on lewisck.com. Is he in the deleted scenes that are also available on Lewis? I don't think he's in that deleted scene.

He's not in the deleted scene. Wow, we really fucked him. Lewis Gomez is, though, speaking of MMA and deleted scenes. This is an amazing, you've got to watch it. This is an amazing, you know Lewis. You can only see this if you buy the movie. So, Louis Gomez, there was a scene where Joe, can only see this If you buy the movie So Louis Gomez There was a scene Where Joe

His character Jeff Is sitting in a car Louis Gomez Louis J Louis You call him Louis Yeah You're the only person

On earth that calls him Louis I don't think he cares Louis J Gomez Yeah Talented actor I think he's got a future As an actor He's talented

In a lot of things He can fight too I'm watching his Sparring footage And all that stuff He knows what he's doing He's training hard at it One of things. He can fight, too. I'm watching his sparring footage and all that stuff. He knows what he's doing. He's training hard at it. One of the funniest guys on the planet.

We did this scene where he's sitting in a car, and it's just one of the episodes of anxiety in the movie. I'm sitting in the car, not Louis. He's sitting in the car. And he's sitting just at an intersection, and he looks and he sees two kind of city tough guys, Will Savinche, who's a very funny comic also, and Louis Gomez,

Louis Gomez, hanging out. And they just make him anxious. He's that anxious that he's just projecting onto these two guys, what if they don't like me? What if something happened?

And then we kind of go to this fantasy sequence where they jump on the car and they're trying to get in the car and screaming at him. And I wanted Louis to punch the windshield and break it.

But it's very expensive to do stunts. You need many windshields. You need safety glass. I couldn't afford it. I paid for this movie out of my pocket. And also you need safety people and you need a speech. And you need to control the intersection for far longer. And the cops send extra people.

So I did something very fucked up and irresponsible. I told the prop woman on her I said get more windshields and I'm not just don't ask me why and I told Lewis be careful and you know don't break the windshield but it would be kind of a cool

scene if you broke the windshield and he was like can I break it he was so excited to break the windshield and the cop on set did his job. He saw three windshields. He's like, why do you have extra windshields? I'm like, I don't know. It's just something.

It's okay. And he said, are you going to try to make the guy break the windshield? And I fucking lied to this cop's face and said, no way. I wouldn't let that happen. And so we had kind of a code with Lewis that if the take was going well, I'd kind of give him a little, and that meant go for it. And he fucking just punched straight at the windshield and cracked it and kept punching.

His hand was bloody, and he peeled it away like a fucking fruit to get his hand in to attack Jeff Joe, who's yelling cut, cut. Cause he's covered in glass and he's going cut, cut, cut, cut, cut,

which you can't really hear, but it was a really dynamic and beautiful scene. And he made it great. And Will was great too. But it's one of those things we just, and as soon as it, soon as he cracked it, I inadvertently like looked at the cop and he was like,

you fucking asshole, you fucking asshole. You fucking asshole. And so that was the last shot of the day, so we didn't have to deal with it. But we had to cut it because there was too many scenes about anxiety. It was muddling the story. But it's in the extra features if you buy it. Is that one of the hardest parts of putting together a film, is trying to figure out what to leave in and what to take out?

Yeah, when you're editing, you have to be brutal. You can't give a shit what it took you to shoot it. And also, sometimes the scenes are beautiful. Like, that's a great moment. That guy did a great job

in that, like that one. That was a really great scene. But you don't know until you watch the movie what belongs in there. But is it hard because you're so involved in it? You're there.

Is it hard to see what's good and what's bad after a while oh in editing yeah that is the problem with it that is the challenge is keeping it fresh you try to work on scenes specific and then put them away and work on another one and try not to think about the overall you try not to watch the film down until you have a version of it and then you sit and you watch it and then watching it with somebody else though makes a big difference um somebody else in the room even if they're not commenting you feel them in the room and it changes how you see it some people show it to audiences for tests i don't do that and i didn't have to because it's my money. But that's always weird, right? Like you're relying on the audience and their reaction. And like as you were saying, the audience in Boston is so different than the audience in New York.

Yeah. That's right. That's why I think that test screenings are not – they're inaccurate. You're also getting people that are being paid to sit there. That's right. Which is weird. They're weirdos. Yeah.

They're weirdos. Yeah. They're weird people. Yeah. And then they interview them and they ask them questions like, were you ever confused during the movie? And they say, I was confused during this part. And so the studio tells you, cut it. But the confusion was the correct feeling during that time. Right. Or being upset.

You know, like when they do sitcoms, like you were in a sitcom and at some point they tested that one. And people have a wheel, like a joystick wheel, like a, you know were in a sitcom and at some point they tested that one and people have a wheel, like a joystick wheel in their hands and as they watch it, they go to the right if they're happy and to the left if they're unhappy. And so if there's a villain in the movie, it's supposed to be

a bad guy, it goes way down. So they show you the chart. It's like an EKG. And when it dips, the studio says cut because cut that. Get rid of that guy or make that guy more likable because he's testing low. But he's supposed to test low. You're supposed to – in a movie or a TV, you're supposed to have this experience. But they want a kind of like 60% all the way across.

That's why TV and movies are often very sedate you know although not now again I just my daughter watches stranger things yeah and I started watching it with her it's a fucking great show great show and it's adventurous and it's it times puzzling and inappropriate and strange and it's beautiful so people are making really cool stuff now well in the big place Ozark hadn't seen it, no. So disturbing. It's a fucking wild show.

They just ended it. They just ended the whole series. They finished it. But it's a thing that you could only make on a streaming channel. And you could only make if you're a person that has that sort of autonomy, where the people just let you kind of do it. And that's one thing, to Netflix's credit, is that they will just let people put out their stuff.

Like I was watching Cobra Kai. Have you seen this? It's fucking great. It's very good. It's fucking great. You can sort of tell after a few episodes they handed it off to kind of a writing staff. It stopped being just the vision of the guys.

I don't know anything about who made it, but you can tell it becomes stories with arcs and characters having arcs yeah but when it starts just this fucking guy and this you know and he's a fucking he's a horrible guy in some levels but you feel yourself starting to like him that's the potential you have what people connecting with people they don't like yeah it's a great thing it's a great thing it's it's it's not to be run away from it's like with stand-up ideas that upset people this is what we do that i love that's like a religion to me i would die for it is that you take people to a place that they hate that they're upset that scares them or offends them or makes them feel bad when they think about it you take them to that part of their brain and you make them laugh there.

That's a, what a great fucking thing that is. Yeah. And people love it. You know, you don't need any more excuse to do it than that, that people keep coming to the shows, you know. It's easy sport for other people to take it and go, you shouldn't have said that thing. Right.

You guys play that game, that's fine. But the audience still loves just being jarred and played with because it's a game. It's a game. It's a fun. Movies are a game too. We're going to show you somebody, a mass murderer, and he's actually the good guy, that kind of thing.

Well, Tony Soprano. Yes. Tony Soprano was an evil, terrible person who was the anti-hero that everyone loved. That's right. Yeah. To have that is good. It's like that to have that is good. It's like what they did with Cobra Kai was fascinating because they made Ralph Macchio

a shithead. That's right. And they made the bad guy likable. That's right. And I remember thinking that when I watched the movie, the first time Ralph Macchio punches him, like what the fuck? He was just, he's actually saying to his girlfriend, hey, I'm just trying to talk to you. And then this guy gets in the way.

So, and then he punches him. He's kind of a his girlfriend, hey, I'm just trying to talk to you. And then this guy gets in the way, and then he punches him. He's kind of a dick in Karate Kid. And he wins, and I loved it when I was a kid. But he is kind of an asshole. Yeah. I think it's more rewarding now for audiences when you do something fucked up, because they know there's consequences. They know that it's, you know, Ari said something that I always repeat is that comedy is dangerous again mm-hmm that's what he

likes you know I think that's good yeah yeah yeah like the fact that you know you could get air quotes canceled like what does that mean like people are gonna get upset at you like well this just means more input you know but you don't have to listen to it no that's the thing I think people are being called canceled who really just got criticized that does happen Yeah, there there is that it's it's died. It's a canceled is a brand that's been diluted Yeah, I mean there are people that get canceled sure, but there's a thing that happens also to comics where they Mean I've heard I've heard of a few people. I've heard a few people. Yeah who had material loss. What does that mean?

You know it's like criticism is kind of essential. And if you're putting out something that's relevant, you're going to have differing opinions. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. It's part of what's great about culture is that somebody puts something out and everybody gets upset. Like every great work that's out there, like old things, they always tell you, like Beethoven's Ninth, when they first played it, people were throwing chairs and boo they were there was a riot like what the fuck is this really they're that angry i might be wrong about the particular symphony but there's those stories are out there a lot you know this in its time this was hated and it doesn't mean

that they were wrong it was part of the excitement of it, too. Yeah. That's part of people. People take this. I don't believe in misinterpretation as a real word of art. Like, you misinterpreted. That's not how I meant it. No, I interpreted it. I took what you made, and it made me feel something different than you felt about it, and I expressed that. I expressed that. It used to be, I think, that critics, like we were talking about this, critics used to be really good at interpreting and dissecting and voicing outrage about stuff in a way, but artistically they used to be good. Now it's kind of like figuring out the buzzwords and making it. It's not the same.

Well, there's still some critics out there, but I think the issue is that journalism itself, it's very difficult to get paid for journalism like you if you want to sell a newspaper good fucking luck nobody's buying newspapers that's right you have to buy you have to get clicks so it's all about engagement so it's all about you know salacious storylines and whatever you say in the headline has to catch people immediately and then it's all about saying something that's going to outrage people or upset people and get them to click on it because that's where the ad revenue comes from. And that's really old too. I mean, the New York Post used to

be clickbait back when it was just newspapers. The Post with the crazy, and they did way back then what websites, news websites do now. Like the New York Post would have a headline that's like war with China. The question mark is what keeps you from getting sued. Right. War with China.

Then you read the newspaper, you buy the paper and the story is, no, there's no war with China. You're fine. So there's a lot of stories like that. The headline is like,

you know, is this or that evil? And then you read it and you go, no, actually it's okay. This guy said it was, but he's not. That's how they protect themselves. It's weird because no one saw social media coming and the influence that it has on people, positive and negative.

But what is coming after this? It's not like this is going to be the end. This is not the final frontier. No, it's just another thing. It's just another thing. And our generation got kind of caught in the teeth of it because it's so different from what we started out with. So we're bewildered by it and upset by it,

and we're like, this is the end of the world. But the next generation of kids, I think, they got their head together about it. Like every human being, they have a nose for bullshit. Kids I know my daughter's age, you know, they're like, no, that's that's dumb. I'm not interested in that. They think it's funny.

They think it's silly. And then they it gets absorbed like everything else. You know, cable TV was supposed to be like, no one's thinking anymore. Everybody's watching, you know. Right. I mean, TV, when it came out, was like, that's the evil, you know, and Malcolm McL. And Marshall McLuhan wrote about how this is going to end. And TV is an afterthought now. It's just been absorbed, and people found ways to do beautiful things in television.

So I think it'll just take its place. There's a book that I was reading that Neil Brennan recommended. I think it's called Entertaining Yourself to Death, something like that. But essentially, it was a book that was written in the 1980s. Let me find the book. And it was a book that was written, you know what it is? Amusing Ourselves to Death. That's it, Amusing Ourselves to Death.

It's a book that was written in the fucking 80s, and it's so relevant because it's talking about how television is dumbing people down and dumbing people's perspectives and ideas down. But it's during the Reagan administration. Yeah. And it's so relevant today. And it's just but ramped up X 100. What's so scary, though, is that social media is or whatever.

Yeah. Social media, I guess, is manipulating you. Like, it's keeping track of you much more than cable television ever was. It knows more about you than you do. I mean, I was reading a thing, or listening to a podcast where they were like, your social media now could even know you're gay before you realize it.

Because it knows how long you pause and how long you stop, and then gives you more of that. So it's, like, much more insidious than TV. It is a pretty wild thing because TV was always a slave to the audience and they were trying to guess. And they got screwed by their guesses so often. So like you put on a show. I remember when I was doing Lucky Louie, there was a show with Heather Graham.

It was called Emily's Reasons Why Not. And she was a big star. She'd done Boogie Nights, and they really banked on this is going to be ABC, huge budget. And they shot 24 episodes. And then they put the first one on the air. They had billboards.

Like, you'd go down Sunset Boulevard, it'd be like three Emily's Reasons Why Not billboards. And it tanked. And after one week, they pulled it. And it was for nothing. Oh, myed and after one week they pulled it and it was for nothing they no one ever saw the rest of it they didn't even go like let it run it was too expensive to let it sit there where they could reuse a rerun and make more money and that that network got fucking killed for you know they took a big guess at what people would like and they were wrong but these guys don't have that anymore they They're actually in, they're actually in your brain. And

in a sense, they're telling you what you're going to like. And they're limiting, they've, they've limited with all the big platforms, the ability to roam and look around as much and everything feels the same. So it's, it's safe for them now. It's safe. But human beings don't like that. It's just a fact. And some, it's going to take longer, I think, for people to dig out from under this because of what you're describing, but they will. They'll just stop buying somebody. One of these huge platforms, you know, like CNN's online, there's things still that just fall hard because they didn't guess right. Well, the CNN one was the dumbest guess of all. They wanted people to pay for something

that they're not really watching for free. Right. They weren't watching it before for free. Ridiculous idea. No, but there's people that are really highly paid and educated at figuring this stuff out, and they get it wrong. And the audience is an insipid thing.

It's the real people just will not, in the end, do what you want them to do. They'll find a way to start looking elsewhere, like on lewisck.com on Fourth of July. Which is out now, I believe. Out now, $15, yes. One of the cool things about comedy is the fact that we're so removed from all that, in the sense that you are the writer, you're the producer, you're the creator, and you're getting live feedback

from the audience every night. There's really nothing like that. It's the best. It's the fucking best. It's the greatest job in the world. Oh my God, I fucking love it. I've done a lot of different shit. And I always say,

if I had to quit all the other things I do, I would 100% stick with comedy. Same here. It's just the most fun. It also gives you more. Even the movie, as amazing as it was, you're collaborating and it's beautiful and it was like the happiest time of my life we had such a great time we were in lake george and then every night louis and tony v and apollo and i would sit around telling comedy stories and by and smoke cigars by the lake and

it was awesome and watching the movie with a big group of people was amazing and so satisfying but it's still not the same drug as doing a set and fucking killing you leave there's that buzz or high i don't know i always feel like you're gonna sound pretentious talking about how much you love comedy right it is it is the best i remember when i was on sitcom one of the producers said to me uh why are you still doing stand-up you're an actor now and I remember going oh no I remember thinking what a fucking terrible piece of advice yeah oh my god and made me want to go up I'm like I gotta get a spot tonight yeah what the fuck am I doing I just got terrified that I was gonna become one of these normies yes one of these people just run

actor oh I like Bill Cosby used to I know he's a serial rapist and yada yada, but All that negatives always big-time yada yada But he would come out even he was whatever he was 80 years old and come out on to Letterman and do a stand-up set Before coming over and talking about whatever yeah, and Letterman was like, oh you like to do the stand because well I gotta let everyone know remind them that like to do the stand-up? He goes, well, I gotta let everyone know, remind them that I am still a stand-up comedian. Yeah. And that was after 60 years of entertaining.

Of course, he was a rapist too, but still, he was a stand-up comedian. One of the best. One of the best ever. It's weird that he didn't even practice his stuff in front of an audience. He would just create like a monologue. And I don't know,

I would have loved before all this happened to have sat down with him and have a conversation with him. Now, obviously, that's a problem. No, he was one of the greatest that ever did it. Yeah, no doubt. I don't know what happens. It's interesting to me as I get older, like when I'm 54 now, you're about the same age. Yeah, I just turned 55.

Well, we're at the outliers now. We're the older comics. There's not a lot of people our age that are still, like, really doing it, you know? I mean, there are. There's all over the country doing clubs. But really doing it in terms of pushing it and saying shit that's tricky. Yes. Yeah.

And still doing it the old-fashioned way, in a sense. Like, a lot of comics, when they get older, first of all, they go to movies if they get popular, and then that's it. Yeah. Or they might throw together a set and do a go to movies if they get popular and then that's it. Yeah. Or they might throw together a set and do a special, but you can tell it's not what it was. And some guys do that, that they just, they come up with it first and then they just do the theaters. And it's just not, they're not challenged, you know. But it's still like for me, I still go when I'm ready to do another set, I go to the fucking cellar. And I'm sitting around comedians that are half my age or less.

And I'm waiting to go up and I'm older and comedians that are half my age or less and i'm waiting to go up and i'm older and i got fucking my hands i have arthritis i'm like fuck i don't want to do this but that's still the road to a set the way i understand it how to do it is these fucking 10 minute sets with weak material and then building and building and then clubs and governors in long island and you know the nyack Levity and all these places. And then the Nashville Zanies. There's a road that gets me to a theater. Yeah.

And it's long. And if I stop doing that, I shouldn't be doing comedy anymore. Well, it's impossible. It's like making cement without the proper mixture. It's just not. That's right. You have to do it that way. I also still love that.

I mean, when I was doing arenas everywhere and all that, that was a trip. And it was fun. And jet planes from one arena to the next. And like, hey, this is where the Timberwolves play. And then the next, you know, all the best. Joe did these with me. It was mind-blowing and super fun. And an experience for me.

I think the audience gets screwed because you're this big in a sense, but it was fun. But I think it's an epic moment for them too. They do. They're excited that they're there at the garden to see you and that they know they're invested in the fact that you've become a big star and there is that. But they won't keep coming to see you at the garden. Like it's a, I think it's a peak. It's a one time a year thing.

That's it. Next time you come to town, you better be at the beacon or the town hall. Right. But what I discovered coming back was that when I was just doing clubs again, because that's what was available to me, I was happy as fuck. I was worried maybe I won't like it. Right. And I loved it. And I'm just, I don't care where the fuck I am.

I mean, during the pandemic, we were doing shows in, what's the town in Pennsylvania? Royersford, Pennsylvania. Royersford, Pennsylvania. Soul Joel's Comedy Club, which I never heard of. But these guys had the fucking tenacity and fortitude to build a tent next to a railroad. I mean, there's freight trains that come screaming by during the show. And it was the pandemic. And everyone has blankets.

And there's sleet. And you're freezing. And we didn't give a fuck we had to drive sometimes in traffic like two hours in the snow to get there it's like three hours we would do anything to get on stage and we were so happy during those shows and at the cellar there'd be like five people because they couldn't put more than like five people and you're in plexiglass and and and yet everybody had their own microphone and other young comedians that we were with were like this sucks i can see myself in the plexiglass and i was like fuck you this is this is glorious we're doing stand-up it's kind of wild too it's you're you're doing something where you thought it was going to go away forever yeah that was the weird feeling

during the pandemic the first show that i saw during the pandemic, Burr came to town and he did this outdoor amphitheater. And I hadn't sat down and watched a comedy show in a while. And it was freezing cold out. And again, people had blankets and Bill was on stage in a coat with a fucking knit cap on and shit. But it was amazing. And Chappelle's shows, did you do any of his shows? I did all of them in Austin. We did them all together at Stubbs Amphitheater.

That's right. Well, he invited me out to- Yellow Springs. Yellow Springs. And besides being in his world, which is wild, Chappelle land, being able to do shows there in this cornfield and other comedians. Last time I saw Bob Saget, I got to see him one more time. And we were all together again and it was really it was really something that's great yeah there was

something special the shows that we did in stubs like Dave called me up and he said hey fuck this let's do comedy you know and it's like let's just test everybody it'll cost a lot of money and take a lot of time but it'll be a lot of fun and we did it and it was there were some of the most magical moments ever because while we were there we're like I can't believe we're doing this it's really happening yes I really didn't think it would happen

at least for a very long time and there I am with Dave and Michelle Wolf and we're talking jokes yeah and Dave's Dave would just host the shows

and just be really like a comedy club host like talking to the crowd and just fucking around and doing silly bits I loved watching him and then we'd all go to his crazy barn and just

everybody would dance and it was fucking nuts he's doing it right he's an unusual person in the greatest sense ever he i had this one moment of chapelle that tells me like who he is inside deep inside you know he's a public guy and he's had a varied and complex life, but this is who he is to me. I was – after one of the shows in Yellow Spring, he has like this, you know, a big – like his own little nightclub with a DJ station and a bar. And everybody went there afterwards. And they're playing really loud music, mostly black people. And me and Noam, who owns the comedy cellar were sort of standing where the two wallflowers kind of just watching you know and these guys they're in a mob just dancing dance to all kinds of music nirvana at one point old hip-hop new uh you know weird alanis morissette

just anything yeah and they're dancing and i look at chapelle and he's got his kind of half-lidded he's smoking and red eyes and he's watching. And at one point he just went into the middle of the crowd of people and he just started pushing them like this. And he made a circle. He just gently shoved people and he made them clear a circle. And then there was a lot of kids around. And there was this little black girl with very skinny, this skinny girl. And he just took her by the hand

and put her in the middle of the circle and then he backed off and then she started dancing and everyone went wild and just watched her do this. He saw this. I watched him decide this. I'm going to make this space.

I'm going to put this little black girl in it and then he just backed off and he just sort of was pleased at what he created uh-huh some unbelievable moment he's a guy taught me to listen to music before you go on stage she has a playlist that he plays and he would always bring these big JBL boomboxes with him everywhere and I started bringing one on the road with me too because it sets a tone for like the green room but we were doing these shows at Stubbs.

He was listening to this one Nina Simone track, and he would listen to it over and over. What was it? Do you know what song it was? I wish I could fucking remember, but we were blasted. We were out of our minds. We were so fucking stoned and so drunk.

But it was just to see him take in this art, to see him take in this Nina Simone see him take in this nina simone song he had like his his eyes closed and he's like smoking a cigarette and you know and he would go hold on this is one part right here one this is one part and he'd be like play it again like oh man yeah he's a great appreciator yeah of life now he loves art too he's. He's a deep respect for people's creations, you know, like to the bone. Like he really loves it. Really loves doing it. You know, he really loves creating it and really loves listening to it. It's like he's doing it right. He's doing it right. And he's doing it in his own vibe. You know, he's got his own sort of space that he's created, his own vibration.

That's a hard thing to have right now. Yeah. Well, he's another one. He doesn't listen to shit. He's not reading social media. He doesn't have anything on his phone. He doesn't, nothing. Which Don L always thinks is hilarious because any time anything's fucked up, he has to grab

Don L's phone. He's like, give me that. What the fuck is going on? That's what hanging out with Ari is like. It's funny. We just came from Mark Norman's bachelor party. Like literally I just landed from it and Ari and I put it together

in Tampa. And then Joe DeRosa, you know Joe, right? Great comic. He convinced everybody, Ari, that he wasn't coming because he had to do pickups for a TV show and he even got a guy to text him saying I'm the TV guy, whatever. So he was sending screenshots text him saying I'm the TV guy whatever so he

was sending screenshots of like I can't come whatever so then he was gonna come down and surprise everybody he felt like I was the only I'm the only one that doesn't drink so he told me I'm coming tomorrow to come do this thing to surprise everybody and Ari doesn't use his phone he puts it he's one of these guys I locked my phone away yada yada and so joe's about to meet us and surprise us and so joe's texting me where do i meet you go in the back get get a table i'm gonna come in with shots and we're texting back and forth we're here we're getting there and ari's doing the thing of like let me use your phone give me your phone and i'm like

get just fucking get your phone because derose is texting me in real time being like okay i'm coming so i'm like I can't give you my phone. And Ari's like, just let me use your fucking phone. And I had to make it like, you pretentious fuck. But it was all because I'm trying to hide this thing from him. Anyways, DeRosa came and surprised everyone. It was very exciting. God bless him.

Yeah, Ari recognizes he has a problem. He recognizes he gets... Yeah, you gotta restrain yourself when you know you have to. He will just spend his entire day on his phone And he just like fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck this thing so I went to the flip phone It's an addiction it may it gets you off you think you're being upset But you're getting your heart rate up, and you want that you don't know you want it But it's like food addiction though because you do need it you do have to communicate and occasionally you need maps whatever so it's one of those things it's like you can't just

be totally abstinent from a phone because you got to communicate somehow and so i mean i try to flip phone but it frustrates my kids uh that they they don't you know and it's another number and they just yeah so i end up doing this thing but i put I put a restriction code on it and I don't have the ability to change this anymore. Ah. So, so. Isn't that crazy you have to do that to yourself? Yeah, it's nuts. Well, I'm powerless over it.

I'm powerless. If I'm feeling lonely and I can even, even if I took off the YouTube app, I'll fucking reinstall it and watch something. Yeah. So now I can't do that. And I feel a thousand times better. I didn't used to have this problem at all.

I mean, when I earlier, like I remember I hosted SNL once and I did a whole monologue about child molesters. And I knew it was challenging. And SNL is almost like a Disney show now. It's more for young kids. But I didn't want to do a safe monologue

because I need, I got to be myself. I don't want people to think I'm something I'm not because that's dangerous. So if this monologue upsets people, it's going to do. But they hired me. But anyway, after I did it, it went really well. And after I did it, I guess there was shit. I just didn't care.

And I ran into Michael Shea at a club and he said, are you okay? And I was like, what? And he he said you're getting killed out there I was like I don't not nobody's touching me yeah I'm not feeling it that was you know 2015 or something right we're different but that's the thing is like if you want to be upset at people being upset at you it's always available yes and also if as a comedian or a performer if you need everybody to be okay, if you need to check with everybody, you're out of your mind. Yeah.

You just need to live with the gap between who you are and what people think of you. Yeah. Just live with it. Accept it. It's good. It's good to have a separation. Well, not only that, you have enough shit out there that hopefully intelligent, objective people will form a more balanced opinion. Right.

And the people that are fans of yours, they know what you do anyway. That's right. It's not going to affect them at all. And we were talking about this last night, but one of the things that I got furious at was comics that were upset with you after your leaked recording got out. And they were trying to say, like say like oh he's lost his heart He's like what I was like what the fuck are you talking about? This is exactly his material. That's what I always did It's exactly the thing that people celebrated before and now all of a sudden these fucking Mediocre shitheads are coming out and there's saying all these horrible things. I'm like, you guys suck.

You're full of shit. The only reason why you'd be doing this is because you're inadequate. There's no one who is really good. They're doing something for themselves. Yes. If you're ever talking about somebody else, you're talking about you, you know, especially publicly. Yes.

Often. Here's what I think of that guy. Right. It's really something that you want to be heard saying. Yes. And it may be because you're afraid or because you're ambitious or whatever it is right there's that you gotta not that's all also that stuff you gotta not take in especially from colleagues who are competitive you know yeah it is what it is and comedy is always like that but especially if you

get a really high up there where you're kind of beyond them if you get brought down to their level they're gonna punch you in the face you know i mean it's just going to happen and hopefully you can survive it and get back to your own but it just exposes them it really does and for other comics they'll never trust that person again no you're always like oh i know who you are i know what's going on in your little mechanism you got a little demon live it inside your head and you're trying to keep it in a cage and you just let it out right now i know who you are yeah Yeah. And you don't need to engage it as the way I feel like, like I will learn from watching Obama when he was running for president against McCain.

I think it was. And he was, I mean on the Friday or which election, but he was debating and McCain really knew that Obama was going to win. Like they used to, he used to just say it to people. This guy's got to beat me. I know it.

I liked McCain too, but he would, he, to just say it to people. This guy's going to beat me. I know it. I liked McCain, too. But he would, during the debates, he would really kind of attack Obama and be really pugnacious. And Obama would just say, he'd say what he feels. And then McCain would go, yeah. And Obama would just look at the camera and smile and go. That's a brilliant way to handle it. It is. Because what the audience, he doesn't need to overcome McCain.

Right. He doesn't need to make himccain right he doesn't need to to make him feel a bit worse or to convince him of anything there's other people watching and he knows who he is so people watching go that guy's having a hard time mccain this guy seems like he knows what he's and also i'm listening to what they're saying i've got my own mind you know yeah so you can't you kind of count on people doing that, that other folks are quietly watching and going, eh, you don't need it to be expressed everywhere.

You don't need it to be said, you know? I don't think anybody's ever handled it better than him. Yeah. Being president and, like, being, like, a statesman and, like, really being an example of what we would hope a president would be in terms of the way he handles himself and communicates. He's the best president ever. Yeah, and communicates. He's the best president ever. Yeah, I love him.

He's the best ever. And maybe he's pulling a bullshit job on me. I don't know. I'm sure some of it's bullshit, but I'm enjoying it. He's certainly connected to big money and all the other influences. But as far as being an example, that looks like the president of the United States of America.

That's what i like yeah and also there was like the bush bush had the there was the bush machine of the two bushes and the cheney and the rumsfeld there was that machine that just kind of took over for and there was the clinton machine there was clinton and and you know bill and hillary and all that there was this dominating feeling like we're all being kind of there's this you know these tenacious machiavellian things going on even if there was good about all of them but obama didn't leave that like and in trump obviously but obama's just obama yeah like there isn't you know he's got a deal in netflix okay but you know but otherwise there isn't like this obama cabal out there right i mean he was president for two terms right and he didn't make a big network of fucking influence right he just did his job that he was asked to do uh you know and

you can have opinions about how he did it but he's not he's different than those guys to me in that sense you know he did a podcast for a little while he did a podcast with bruce springsteen it just wasn't good it just it just wasn Reminds me of Caddyshack. You're not good. Well, it's not that he couldn't be good. It's just that he's bigger than everything. He's the greatest president ever. When he goes and does a podcast, he can't just have a whiskey and talk shit.

No. But if he did, it would be fucking amazing. You mean that he's restrained by it? Yes. You would think he's achieved escape velocity where he could express himself. I mean, he's done two terms. He can't be president again, so you're free of that expectation. Still a very young guy.

Yes. A healthy guy. And very aware of what's happening. And he'll occasionally make a very socially astute point about things. I remember he was talking about people once about how messy people are, you know, that just things, people say things they don't necessarily mean. They talk about things. People are very messy. And the way he said that, I'm like, I've never heard a person like him say that. And I wish he did more of that. You know, I wish someone could talk to him and get him to loosen up. like the Obama cursing podcast

Yeah, he's like look it. I don't know where he's smoking a cigarette. Yeah, he does. Yeah quietly Yeah, I'd like to see that too. I think he's capable of it. I think he could have the best podcast ever I just don't know What was trains? I mean, this is I guess of the expectations, the, the, what he, what he represents to people that love him. It's like, it's too much. It's, it's hard for those people to just be themselves. And it's also, you deal with all those years of being a politician and all those years of having speech writers and every word is sort of calculated and every, the tone is set in a very specific way. and the tone is set in a very specific way,

and you can't just be a person, a person with an opinion on things and just talk about stuff, because I'm sure he's got a very highly educated, astute opinion on things. We just don't really hear it the way you'd like. Yeah, I'd like to see him be messy. Yeah. Because it is fun to watch people like Christopher Hitchens

when he would talk he's every other thing i'd be like yeah come on like dude but it the whole in the whole everything that he says i'm like you get in this spirit you get to somebody's spirit when they just let out and hitchens is a perfect example that he was a great guy drunk all the time yeah he was constantly drinking and he would go and eviscerate these fucking people in debates with a whiskey in his hand and just talk shit while he was you know like eloquently dissecting everything they believe those were the days oh my god he was fucking amazing yeah that guy what a force he would be today what a needed voice if that guy was around today you know people say stuff like that all the time

like what would Joan Rivers be like now and what would Don how would we do all this with Don Rickles around all that stuff but the fact is that they're gone is why it's like this it's like they couldn't they had to wait for them to die to start being like this

it's just an era, we're in an era you know it's just an era we're in an era you know yeah but it's a fascinating era really fascinating because no one really knows where this is going and no one's ever experienced anything like this before well i don't know if they have there's some things that are very ancient about it you know like uh people the purification the idea of like we're going to get pure of communism or you know christian Christianity from, you know, the Satan. The idea that people live, people are uncomfortable living in this place of like, I'm not sure how I feel.

Yeah. Which is the only honest place. The only human place is like, I just don't fucking know. I'm confused. And day to day I change my mind and that's painful because I don't know where my feet should be. That's hard to live. And we kind of have these arcs, like a spaceship going up and then coming down. There's little moments where society gets really trippy and fun

when The Sopranos was on the air, when it's like, let's look at bad guys and have fun with it. It gets like that. But then people get anxious and they get nervous about it. And then you just have this horrible momentum of like you can be a good person. You can be a good person. You don't have to feel bad ever. You can be a good person and you can know who's bad.

And once you get into that, folks just cling to it. And it's natural. I get it. But it's not human nature. It's not the only version of it. Like with comedy. Comedy has to be defended every few decades it has to go through this yeah and people have to be reminded by losing

it oh no i really liked when it was just fucking funny i just really like that yeah so you get it back it's just it's a curve it's a pendulum it's a lot of different shapes but i think it's happened a lot it's happened already and it'll happen again. But in terms of like audience members, it seems like they like it more now. Like, I think people have a sense that comedy is

in a precarious position and that, you know, it almost went away because the pandemic in terms of like live performances. So when they're out now and,

you know, like a set like you did last night with a lot of fucking tricky shit. Really tricky shit It was so fun for me to watch you navigate it and Also to know that some of these bits are fairly new and you can see how you're fucking around with them Yeah, and it's uh it the but the people had this like genuine smile like I looked around during your set once I don't want to talk about what the subject matter was, but it was one of the bits that was really out there. And these people had this smile on their face

where there was like, yes, I love this. It's an experience that's unlike anything else. And it's just so important. It's so important for people as a release. It's a drug. It balances out all the outrage and all the chaos in the world, even if it's just for 90 minutes. Yeah, it's a it's a drug it it it balances out all the outrage and all the chaos in the world even if it's just for 90 minutes yeah it's grounding and again you go to where you're scared and then you come back from and you go i was okay i'm okay yeah and uh i think people

like that and also just the basic belly laugh just to move in your body that way i think this is like a glorious time for comedy and i think all the stuff that we all hate and we sit around at campfires and bars and talk about, did you see so-and-so said this about so-and-so it's all great for comedy. It makes people all the PC shit or whatever. It makes people hungry for this and it makes it feel more punk rock. Like we're going into the basement to hear some wild shit. Yes.

And there's a bunch of guys selling out theaters all over the country all over the world that are killer i think this is like one of the best times and we're in it so it feels like this weird time but i think people will look back at this time be like that was a really great time oh it's definitely great in terms of the amount of quality comedy out there yeah there's a lot of great comics out there and a lot of the guys coming up it's a shane gillis's yeah he's fucking fantastic so good but these guys that are coming up are playing off that and they know that this what they're doing is wild shit and the audience knows it and they're so excited it's so fun to see yeah you know like i i took shane with me to uh irvine and i got you know sometimes when

someone's at a club you don't get to see their whole set. The way the Vulcan's set up, it's difficult to watch the show without actually going to the audience and having people see you. But in Irvine, I took him to the improv and I got to sit backstage and watch his set. And I was fucking crying. And I was so happy.

I was so happy. I was like, God, it's so great to see someone just fucking going. So I went on stage after him. I was like god. It's so great to see someone just fucking going for so I went on one on stage after him I was like I had wiping tears out of my eyes laughing when I hugged him Yeah, I was so I was so happy and laughing so hard that I went on stage Like you know I had been in the audience and it was just so freeing it was like god damn. This is fun It's the best thing. Last night the second show

I was a little slower and quieter and I was just enjoying these individual laughs. That's the great thing about a club. Like I did some bit that was just so gross and so fucked up and wrong and there was this one woman sitting in the front row who was really well

dressed and well put together and she had been sitting kind of and she just fucking at this one woman sitting in the front row who was really well-dressed and well-put-together. And she had been sitting kind of – and she just fucking – at this one bit, she just went like a shriek. And she was just trembling. And I stopped and I just looked at her and we made eye contact. And I just stood there and I watched her laugh. Like, fuck everybody else. And I just watched – I watched her whole laugh dwindle down. And I was like, all right.

And then I went on. It's the best. It's the best fucking feeling. And I love comedy besides myself. So that's why I get so much joy out of watching somebody like Shane. And Joe, who when I met him, was very rhythmic. He had good jokes, but he'd set it up, and then he da-da-da. Da-da-da, ba-da-da-da-da.

And I used to encourage him, like, talk like yourself more, which is every comic's trajectory. They start with a form, then they start breaking it just because they get frustrated. Again, it's why the phone is killing you, because you should be so upset all the time as a comic. You should be bored when you're not on stage. And every show should be frustrating. And I watched Joe's frustration turn into really inventive. Like, he now has this tapestry of telling you stories,

showing you really raw feelings, but then also because of his, where he started, he's got jokes. He's got crystalline Boston comedian fucking jokes. So he's one of my favorites. And Shane is like, exposes a whole other part of himself that most people don't.

He's very giving with who he is on stage and you know where he comes from he's a red state guy playing the blue state audience yeah it's like please be patient i believe me and he's just and it's so fun to watch him deal with that dance every comic has their own you know sam real a guy who's just fucking sharp comic has their own, you know, Sam Murill, a guy who's just fucking sharp. Everybody has their own skills. It's like a pit, like if you had a pitching staff and there's guys

who are great long relievers, there's great closers, you know, Sam Murill's like a closer. He's like a ninth inning guy it feels like, you know.

Growing up in Boston is one of the best environments to do stand up in because you are forced to deal with audiences that have very little patience for bullshit yeah yes i think we all i assuming about you as well as like we all

came up with doing vfws and firehouses and i see these comics that will kind of pontificate and have their hand on the thing and kind of take these long things i'm like yeah exactly it's a fucking joke you frag there was none of that i'm'm like, I did exclusively VFW, Knights of Columbus, Firehouse Cop shows for the first 10 years I was doing comedy. So it's that feeling of like, I got to say something funny fast. Quickly. Or I'm fucked. I also think in Boston, maybe it's like this everywhere.

I don't know. But when I grew up, funny and tough were the only two things that were valued. You'd be like, he's going to hang with that. He's a funny guy. Or you'd be like, this guy's coming with us. If'd be like, he's going to hang with us. He's a funny guy. Or you'd be like, this guy's coming with us. If shit goes down, he'll beat the shit out of him. And it's like, that was it. There was no other values that anyone cared about was being funny.

So you just had to be funny or tough. There was scary one-nighters we used to do in Boston. There was a place called Frank's in Franklin. It was a Mexican restaurant, but he called it Frank's. It was this Italian guy. No one would go in there. Frank's in Franklin. It was a Mexican restaurant, but he called it Frank's. It was this Italian guy. No one would go in there. Frank's. And it was just horrible.

It was the worst gig. And Frank, the owner, would get really drunk. And there was one night where some people were heckling. And Frank went to his office and got a gun and went to the table that was heckling in front of everybody and said, shut the fuck up. And everybody in the place got up and left. People ran for the door. And he was like, what? No, do the show.

It's okay. That kind of shit was just normal, you know. So, yeah, you had to fucking keep delivering. Yeah, there's a certain, well, there's also a certain quality standard because there were so many headliners that were these Boston local headliners that were as good as any comic that's ever lived incredible so and I talked about them all I've had a bunch on I've had Sweeney on and Gavin on and Lenny Lenny Clark and it's like they were when when we were coming up I would put those guys up against any fucking comic that ever lived they were

so good and they were so crisp and they had an hour that they had been doing for a decade that fucking thing was like a razor blade yes and now four decades that's right yeah still doing the same act yes unfortunately some of them i don't know but no when i started i started in 1985 and i was just had a i loved stand-up comedy you were really young i was 18 jesus christ i was in high school and i was washing the floor of the kitchen because I had a date, and my mom said, if you wash the kitchen floor, I'll give you $10. So it was $10 to take a girl out. And I was washing the kitchen floor, and I had WBCN on, the radio station.

Yeah. And they had a thing called 5 O'Clock Funnies, and they'd play comedians. And usually they were famous comedians, but once in a while they'd play comedians and usually they were famous comedians but once in a while they play local guys so they had on um first of all they had stephen wright on who became my first like current favorite like i love the older guys like carlin and cosby and prior but i was like who the fuck is stephen wright he's like the best i ever heard and then they had but they put on chance langton oh yes i love chance yes and he had an He was very smart. He made an album before those guys. Those guys didn't do that, but he made an album, so they played it on BCN.

And they played it, and I was like, this guy's really fucking funny. He's killing in the album. Chance doesn't sound like anybody else. He's just very unique. Yes. So I was really into it. And then afterwards, the host said,

on Sunday nights, open mic at stitches comedy i didn't know what a comedy club was it was like a comedy club and there's one downtown you can just show up and sign up and get on and i thought there's be like three comedians there that work there every night and i in my head and i'll be the new guy or something and then i get there because i wanted to do it. And I see this Boston comedy scene, these fucking guys, Kevin Meaney and Steve Sweeney and,

and Lenny Clark, Kenny Rogerson, Jimmy Tingle, you know, um, Barry Crimmins, Tony V. All these guys were just phenomenally good and they're crushing and they're

perfect. Even like the second tier guys like mike moto this guy and rich seissler these guys were so fucking good and that was the bar mike dunovan incredibly skilled comics destroying with crowds that are just lined up around the block and there was a lot of other comedians trying to do open mics. It was competitive. It was hard to get seen and noticed. And I was just overwhelmed. I couldn't believe what I discovered. And I became obsessed with it.

It's all I cared about. It's all I gave a shit about. And so when you were 18, what was the first place you went up at? At Stitches. Yes, me too. Yeah. George McDonald was the host. Yes, me too.

Well, no, for mine, it was Jonathan Katz. But George was the regular host, and Jonathan was filling in that day. Right. But George had comedy hell. He liked torturing comedians. Yeah, that's what he called it. Like if you were bombing, sometimes he wouldn't let you offstage. And he'd be on an offstage mic going, no, you got to do another 20 minutes.

And the guy would be crying, and people loved it. But I went on, and i did three minutes i couldn't even do five and i bombed hard like it hurt bad it was the worst night maybe of my life i never felt that bad in my life and i knew i wasn't i got silence total silence and then i worked at a video store in newton at the time where i grew up well you grew up in newton too you're newton south i'm newton north yeah and kevin meanie lived in newton at the time and he used to come in the video store and light up the store and just be fucking crazy and sing songs i don't care i don't care and uh i got to be friends with him i gave him movies that he would like and he liked the movies i had

suggested so anyway he told me to i told him I did an open mic. He said, come do my show. It was Sweeney and Meany. They hosted together. And so I went on there and I bombed. And it was packed. I bombed much worse. So I decided I can't be a comic.

And I didn't do it again for another year. Oh, wow. But then I found this show that Ron Lynch was doing in a movie theater in Central Square. And it was all weird, oddball comics. Like Brian Frazier. I don't know if you remember Brian Frazier. I was good friends with Brian. Yeah, me too.

We were good buddies. I had to keep Brian from killing a club owner once. Because Brian at the time, Brian was so big. He was a bodybuilder. Yeah, he was a bodybuilder. And he was fucking huge. And I remember one time he went on he was a bodybuilder. And he was fucking huge. I remember one time he went on stage with a golf shirt on and he got off stage. He's like, what the fuck is wrong with those people? I go, listen, listen, you can't go on stage with that. Your arms are

too big. You're too distracting or you're terrifying. You're so big. He was huge. He had like giant biceps. He was fucking jacked. And he was on stage with those tall, tight golf shirt. What is this? Why are we people why are people doing this? It was really funny, but they were like what the fuck because he was just a specimen yeah, and so one time we did a gig together and Brian was Jewish, but he was blonde and he had like a flat top like he looked like he's flat top Yeah, he looked like a marine or something like that It was a big jack guy and so we're in the room getting paid after the gig with the club owner.

And Brian had like a bit of a hoarse voice because he was- He used to shout on stage a lot. Yeah, but he had like a little bit of a cold. So he's apologizing. Even though he killed, he was like, I'm sorry. My voice was really fucked up. I'm really sorry. And the club owner goes, relax, relax.

What are you, Jewish? Oh. And he goes, I am Jewish. And he's, what the fuck is wrong with you? What are you fucking answering? And I am, and like, he's so much, and like, I can't, what am I going to do? Am I going to hit him? I'm like trying to figure out, how am I going to save him from, like, if he attacks this

guy physically, I'm trying to figure out how do I navigate this? him from like if he attacks this guy physically I'm trying to figure out how do I navigate this Brian's my friend and he's fucking huge and I'm not strong enough to pull him off this guy yeah I'm like I'm not gonna hit him I'm like what am I gonna do here and I was like legitimately thinking he was gonna kill this guy I was like picturing him just beating this guy to death because he was so worked up and it was just the guy like just said some harmless stupid thing just trying to be funny He's like what are you Jewish like because he was complaining about something. He's like yes I am he had a temper it was bad But he was one of my first friends in comedy because one great thing about Boston comedy was it was a vibrant

Scene creatively yes, but there was no show business there Nobody was going to be on TV. There was no television. It was just the clubs were enough and they were making enough money, these guys, that they were just enjoying being Boston stars. And so when I started, like I went to this other club

and the first time I had a positive set where I got laughs, Brian and the other comics all came up to me and said, good stuff, you know, good job. And Brian became my friend, started helping me.

And then Tony V came into that. This was a weird one night club. He came in and saw me and he said, you're pretty funny. Do you work these other clubs? I said, I don't. And he said, come with me. And he just put me in his car, took me to the comedy connection and just told the host, put him on next.

And next thing I know, I'm working at the comedy connection. And I had help from guys all along in Boston. It was a very welcoming and nice community. Yes yes and they didn't have this competitive thing they were competitive but they didn't they they welcomed new people and they were they were encouraging and they tell you what jokes we talked more about each other's jokes back then i think oh yeah that's what when i moved to new york and then years later when joe showed up he was to me that's a boss i have a responsibility i got paid that back i was like i have a responsibility to watch this kid and see what he has and foster him because he came from the same place Yes, yeah, I always felt like that too

And there was Mike Donovan gave me great advice once and Mike Dunn was another guy that was one of the fucking best ever Yeah, but he would record all of his sets He said you should always record your sets because you never know he would bring a little tape recorder This is back when it was kind of big clunky ass tape recorder You bring on stage with him But he was like you got to record your set because you never know when you might say this one thing and that one thing you'll Forget it because you're in the moment But that one thing could be a whole nother bit and there's the only way is you got to listen to it

That's funny even in the 2000s when I was starting he'd had the same tape recorder Have it on his headphones and it he'd be pacing in the back, listening to it. We, I think like 30% of our dialogue is just doing Mike Donovan bits to each other. We just do them to each other

back and forth. Remember when he did Johnny Most? Oh, Johnny Most, who was a Red Sox. Basketball, Celtics. Celtics,

Celtics commentator, and he was a legend in Boston, but he would do this like long after Johnny Most was dead. Yes. People loved it. People loved it. It would fucking kill. No, Johnny most was dead yes people loved it people loved it It would fucking kill no Donovan was one of the best ever the only time those guys get competitive is when someone left Boston yes did well yeah, then fuck you yeah, they did not like that

He's a fucking middle act like they would get upset the guys get on like television and do things my Steven Wright who I became friends with like I have a like he was a big part of my life because i i worshipped him and he was already had become a tonight show guy and a big star but he had come from boston and i was on one night at this at the comedy connection it was like 17 people and i had a rough set it felt bad and it was one of those early rough sets where you're like maybe i don't do this anymore and i was sitting in the in a chair in the audience afterwards just feeling bad and i had the tap on my shoulder and it was one of those early rough sets where you're like, maybe I don't do this anymore. And I was sitting in a chair in the audience afterwards just feeling bad and I had the tap on my shoulder

and it was fucking him. He just dropped in and he just said, you're very funny. And it made my life. Wow. And then we became friends later. We're good friends now.

And he told me this story that the first time he went on stage was at the Ding Ho, which is a storied club, a Chinese restaurant. Yeah. That started comedy in Boston. So he went there.

He had five minutes of jokes, and he went on stage, and he said half the jokes got laughs and half bombed. So he decided, I can't do comedy. In his head, it was like, that means I'm bad because for half the set, I got silence. So he was leaving, and Mike McDonaldcdonald stopped him another veteran guy yeah hey good job and when are you coming back and steven goes that was it i'm done he goes what are you talking about and steven said half the jokes didn't work he goes so you replace those

with other jokes you start you have two and a half minutes of good stuff yeah you're off to a great start replace the ones that didn't work one at a time. Just keep trying. And he said to me he wouldn't have kept trying if this guy hadn't stopped him at the door and given him some encouragement. Those encouraging moments that you get from a person who's like a legitimate comic are priceless.

They're so important. Ironically enough, Mark Maron did that to me when I first started doing comedy. I was only like an open mic-er, and he was a professional. He said something to me when I first started doing comedy like I was only like an open mic and he was a professional he said something to me and he's like

that was really funny really good you just you bet he meant it then yes like the only time probably ever he wouldn't have said it otherwise

but it's just those moments like ah and so I'm very I'm very generous with that I make sure that I go way out of my way when I see someone funny to encourage them and say,

you've already got the hardest part down. You're really funny. Just keep doing it. Yeah, when I tell young comics a lot, if they have one good joke, I'm like, that means your whole act could be good. You wrote that joke, so you could do it now. Yeah, it's just the process.

And the process is odd and it's different for everybody. But the beautiful thing about Boston was it was all about that. It was not about formulating an act that you think is going to sell as a sitcom. No, and me and Mark started around the same time, or he had come from L.A. where he had a crazy time at the store. But he was one of my, me, him, David Cross, Nick DiPaolo. We were these guys that banged around with each other and just tried to figure it out. And we were all vulnerable. I used to love watching Mark struggle,

and I used to love watching him get better, a little better, because he had to really figure out what his voice was that people would want. And still, he would sometimes just eat it, and it was fun to watch him eat it. And Nick was an odd fit because I think he was always a fucking football player and a real working class guy. We're nothing like Nick, but he was so fucking good. He's like a poet, Nick.

Yeah. The choices he makes of words and how he writes things. Very, very underrated. He's one of the best. The choices he makes of words and how he writes things. Very, very underrated. He's one of the best. And he's got, you know, look, on Fourth of July, our movie that's on LouisCK.com. It's available now. It is available now.

A great thing about that movie to me was that we got Nick back in our life. Because Joe, for me, Nick was like a brother. I lived with him. And for Joe, he was like an uncle. And we hadn't either. We had sort of in all these crazy years you drift apart from friends because of politics it's such a fucking stupid thing yeah somebody you love and know you start being told by other voices that's not your friend now right and we were all pushed apart from each other him from us us from him and we brought him to the set for this movie and there was people on the set we're like maybe they won't like Nick very much this particular person everybody

loved Nick because they're not used to guys like him because we're all so separated yes if you go to the person you really like that I am sure that's the enemy that's the other side and you hang out with him you go I fucking love this guy this guy because he's so, nobody else says to me. And Nick is also a guy bursting with love. He's also insecure and a little nutty like everybody else. Yeah. But he came to the movie and he just fucking delivered and delivered and had great ad libs when we needed him.

Perfect timing and really played that guy. He played my brother on news radio. I didn't know that. Yeah. Him and Brian Callen and Epstein from Welcome Back Carter oh my god yeah there was an episode where my brothers all came to visit and they we all beat the shit out of each other that was the whole episode I got thrown through a plate glass window like I had a good it was like candy glass so I think it was it was

Nick or Brian Callen threw me through a window. So like it's Dave Foley's office. So Dave's in his office talking and I come shattering through the window and fall onto a couch. And it was fucking great. But it was a typical Nick DiPaolo moment because Nick is always like, fuck them. Everybody fucking hates me. And so I talked to the casting agent or to the producer rather. And I said, hey, you know, I know these guys are gonna play my brother, I know you got Epstein from Welcome Back Conor,

I go, but I got these two other guys that are good friends of mine that are really funny comics, and they could easily be my brother, two Italian guys, let's bring them in. And he goes, well yeah, fuck yeah, let's bring them in. So Nick comes in, does the audition, kills it, and the producer says great, he'll be your brother, and Brian Callen killed it, and he'll be your brother and brian callan killed it and he'll be your brother perfect but then the casting director it was this woman who like

had these actors who she was friends with that she would like get on parts and so nick calls me up and he goes i didn't get the fucking pot and i go what do you mean you didn't get the part you got the part i just talked to the producer goes no the fucking casting lady called me up fucking they're always fucking me over so I go what no hold on a second let me let me make a phone call so I call up the producer he said no it's supposed to be Nick and so I call up the casting lady I go what what's going on she goes well you know I'd already promised it to this guy I go well that's too bad because we already got Nick like Nick's gonna be it well what do you want me to say I go, well, that's too bad because we already got Nick. Like, Nick's going to be it. What do you want me to say? I go, tell the other guy it's not your place. The producer and me, this is my friend.

He's going to play my brother. And so Nick came in, and he was like, really? Is this really fucking happening? I'm like, it's really happening. Like, you know, and he was like, oh, okay. Like, he was convinced. He was getting fucked again. I'm getting fucked again.

And I called him on the phone. He's like, ah, fuck these fucking people. And I was like, no, no. Yeah, I'm getting fucked again. Yes, like and I called him on the phone He's like I fuck these fucking people and I was like no no no Nick you got it Like yeah, there's Epstein from welcome back hotter than all this the scene to follow. Yeah And Epstein was a priest. Oh my chase us with a baseball bat Look at Nick Yeah, it was fucking fun Wow It was really fun Wow. It was fucking fun. Wow. It was really fun. Wow.

It was fun. That's fucking great. Nick was the first guy that I ever saw on stage that made me comfortable because I always felt odd for a comedian. It came from kickboxing. And then all of a sudden, a comedian. And I always felt like, but I saw that guy and he was killing. And I was like, look at that big fucking handsome football player looking guy. If he could do it,

I could do it too. That's right. It's not really about a type. I always thought it was a type. The first time I went on stage,

I tried to dress up like an evening at the improv guy. I had a suit jacket on with a wacky t-shirt. I had a t-shirt with a funny face on it or something like that.

And I had the sleeves rolled up because I thought that's how you had to do it yeah you had the jacket with the sleeves rolled up about halfway through the forearm yes very fucking 80s disgusting dressed exactly I did that too I did that too I felt like there was a thing that you had to do and I had to do like I didn't think I could even do comedy I always loved comedy but I didn't think that was my sense of humor I just I didn't think that that would fit for me. I was always just a fan.

And then I saw Kinison. And the first time I saw Kinison, I was like, oh, that's comedy too. Yeah, that's right. I was like, okay. Okay, comedy's crazy. Because I saw Seinfeld, and I saw Richard Pryor. I was like, wow, I could never do that. God, these guys are amazing.

The easy motor mouth kind of thing. Yeah, I had the same feeling when I saw Steve Martin was the first one that made me think, maybe I could do this because he just fucking, he didn't give a shit. He was not being a comedian. Right, right. He was just, his early albums, which are so fucking good, he's just talking and weird and off. And you hear the crowd laughing and that great laugh that's like, what is he doing?

It's so much more satisfying than a... I mean, it's another kind of laugh. You got the Nick DiPaolo fucking just fastballs everywhere. Bang, bang, bang. And yet he doesn't look like he should be up there. He doesn't look like a comedian and it works for him. Yes. And he just was angry. He would

be killing and he would find someone who wasn't laughing. Oh, yeah. What the fuck's your problem? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, I've seen Nick snap because someone was going, this guy's so funny. And he's like, shut up. Shut the fuck.

And after, I'm like, I think she was saying how funny. He goes, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. She shouldn't be talking. Yeah. All right. Now, when we were doing the our first uh table read sort of for the movie was on zoom and he was perfect everyone was finding their thing but he

was perfect and i i wrote him a text after and i said that was just everything you did was a was over the wall just everything and he wrote back what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Home runs its home runs all right all right I Thought you were so I thought you give me some shit No, I'm not fucking you did a good job when I was first coming up Nick did a gig and I wasn't there But I had heard about it where he did a gig at a dance club And it was one of those places where they stopped the music and then started the show It was fucking hell and you're not on a stage. You're on the dance floor at the same level as everyone.

And some guy said something to him, and he beat the fuck out of the guy. I remember hearing about it, like Nick beat the shit out of some guy at a comedy club, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's part of comedy? Oh, geez, now I've got to be careful, worried about fighting when you go to comedy shows. Well, there was one night at Nick's, I remember, he went on and he destroyed, and he was new at it. And I think it was Dana Gould, who's very funny, very inventive, great comic.

Great comic. And he went on after Nick, and he's doing stuff about being anxious and weird life, and he's bombing. But he was an elder statesman at the time. Dana was well-respected. Nick was nobody but nick doesn't see the hierarchy he's bigger than dana gould by like 60 fucking pounds or whatever so dana says on stage oh you laugh at the dumb italian guy with the dirty jokes the the dumb guy but you didn't but i guess so you're not here for me i guess and nick was like fucking and i mean it

took everyone to hold him back but But it was kind of great, because Dana was like, terrified. He's like, what? He's like, yeah, Dana, you can't say the guy's bigger than you. Like, live in the real world. Also, he's fucking funny. Like, don't pretend that you're not bombing because he's a big dumb guy.

You're bombing because he fucking killed. No, and I'll respect Dana. He's still very funny, and I love him. He's a great comic. But that's, know 1989 everyone's confused that's right yeah it was just the year of confusion and it was also this weird time where people were sort of like trying to figure out like in boston you were told you had to be clean there was this weird thing because everybody was trying to do like fran solomita has a fantastic documentary called When Stand-Up Stood Out, and it's all about. It's about the ding-ho days and all that stuff, yeah. It's all about this emergence of this, like,

very isolated group of fantastic comedians that were doing coke and getting in bar fights and getting arrested. I mean, those guys were fucking animals. Yep. And they were all these big guys, like big, like Lenny Clark. From the streets too. Big fucking tough guys who were really funny.

And it was that and then the Tonight Show, right? And then with the Tonight Show, like guys like Steven Wright and all these other people like took off and had careers. So there was this like path that was carved for us. It's like, you have to be clean. You have to work clean. And I remember thinking, I'm fucked because I don't think that's funny.

I do think it's funny, but it's not my sense of humor. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I remember like people would be upset. Like if you would kill, they would go on after, I broke the fuck meter. Right. That was the thing that in Boston, they had the fuck meter.

Like don't say, like they would tell you, don't say fuck before I go on stage. You'd be like, what? I can't say fuck? Because then you take away all the fucks from me. I'm like, what? Yes. It's so funny how similar it was 15 years later. Who was your contemporaries who you started with in Boston?

I don't know if there's guys that anyone knows, really. Tom Dustin, Alvin David, Mike Whitman, they're kind of still there. Was Patrice still in Boston when you started? Patrice was gone, Bobby was gone, Dane was gone. I started in 2000, but all those guys were there. It's still all the same. We all have the exact same starting out stories, but I started 15 years after you guys.

It's so funny. It's like a lot of the same rooms, the same guys, Donovan, Tony V. And then I met Nick in Boston, but opening for him at the Comedy Connection. I went on the road with him for years. And it was the same thing. We had all the same stories. It's really fascinating. Yeah, how that place stayed the same

long enough to foster. I mean, those guys sort of created all the comics that came from there. Sure. Burr, Patrice. Patrice, who to me is one of the greatest of all time. Sure. For sure. Patrice is by far, he owns a part of comedy that nobody else can touch.

Yes. There's other people that have like categories where they're number one or two in the bench. Yeah. But he's the only fucking guy who ever did that. And he was just about to get even better and he was already just, I mean, he would now be just everything oh my god he would be if patrice had a podcast it'd be the greatest podcast ever yes ever yeah he would have been he would have been the king he's missed but those guys were those guys lenny

gavin you know even crazy guys like teddy bergeron all these guys were just so good, and they had this godfather. They were like a big, giant, multi-headed godfather. Yeah. And Dane and Robert came up after we did, and Joe and Nick came up under those guys, learned from those guys, looked up to Lenny Clark was his idol. There's nobody more important in the world to Nick than than lenny clark and then he's still there and it i'm you know not everybody's meant to be a tv star right thing but these the way they've looked after that local scene like a folk scene it's like if dylan and joni mentioned all those people stayed in the clubs in the village and just kept being an example they're like teachers yeah uh that's really rare it's a rare thing we're really lucky to have that it's a rare thing and that place celebrates comedy like

boston comedy is like it's very important to people that live in boston yeah and when comics succeed and they come back to boston it's a very special thing it feels amazing i did the the garden when i did the garden i was like did the garden, I was like, I was going to cry. Yeah. Before I got on stage, I was like, fuck, this is nuts.

Yeah, for me, there was the Orpheum because that's where I used to go to see concerts. Yeah. And when I played the Orpheum last year, it was the last show I did of the tour. It was very emotional. Yeah.

It's a special place and it's one of the most important places for the development of comedy. You think of all the great comics that have come from there. Jay Leno. People forget how good Jay Leno was. Jay Leno, when he was just a stand-up before he hosted The Tonight Show, was one of the best fucking comics alive. One of the best ever.

Ever. One of the best ever. He was amazing. I love Jay. Jay's fucking... I remember when I was working on Conan as a writer, and Jay came to do a panel, you know, to be interviewed on Conan. It was like a favor, you know, because he was the bigger guy. It was early in Conan's tenure.

But he sat and did bits like he used to on Letterman. Like he didn't talk about the Tonight Show. He just did bits. And one of them was he said, I was out at the hotel today. And he goes, I went to CVS to buy something and I paid and the woman didn't even look at me. She just gave me my change and I go, that's it? No thank you, no have a nice day?

She says, it's on the receipt. It's a fucking great bit. That is a great bit. He was still, he's just, I loved him so much. And on the Tonight Show, he was, you know, some people hated him, whatever, it's easy to make fun of him so much. And on The Tonight Show, he was, you know, some people hated him, whatever. It's easy to make fun of him. Yeah.

But I don't know. He gave me the lead spot on The Tonight Show way before anybody else did, way before any other. I was doing Letterman. I was doing Conan. But I was always like two or three. And Leno, I had it was booked to be the second guest. But they told me, Jay said he wants you promoted. He wants you to be first and do two segments. Like fucking Burt Reynolds. That's amazing. And I was like to be the second guest, but they told me Jay said he wants you promoted. He wants you to be first and do two segments.

Like fucking Burt Reynolds. That's amazing. And I was like, what? And he liked our rapport. I think I also brought out some funny in him. Yeah. But that was a huge thing that he did for me. And to this day, like every time throughout my career, once I knew Jay, every time something good would happen.

If I won an Emmy, hosted SNL, or did something that people heard about, I knew I'd get a call from Jay. And he just leaves a voicemail. I don't know how to reach him. I don't have his number. He just leaves a voicemail and says, hey, I saw you did this. No, it's just good job. I'm really happy for you. And he has nothing he wants from me. But he always called me. And then when I had my bad time, I thought, I'm not going to hear from Jay again. And he called me and he left the same message and said, hey man, I hope you're doing okay.

You know, everybody loves you. You're okay. And you know, he's never not been there. He's a real mensch. He's a real, really great guy.

I just think it's important to say because he's caught a lot of shit from the community. He's caught a lot of shit for no reason. I mean, I get he was hosting The Tonight Show

and it's a different sort of thing and the monologue was very homogenized. But if a different sort of thing and the monologue was very Homogenized but if you hang out with him and you talk like he did my podcast and he told a story about doing stand-up for a bunch of mob guys and That this mob guy he tells a story about this mob guy yelling at a preacher because the priest like said something and he was like motherfucker didn't we give you enough money and he's screaming and swearing as this mob guy and i'm like this is fucking incredible i remember while he was telling the story i was like this is amazing because you get to see the real jay leno that's right no he's a viciously funny guy but i understood this tonight

show strategy when i watched him in an interview once. And he said, my goal is to come up with jokes that have the broadest possible appeal. Like, that's just how he thinks about that job. Yeah. Jokes that every single person can like on some level. And obviously those are watered down, easy jokes, you know. And even he was, I was on once and Kathy Lee was, Kathy Gifford. Yeah. Was the lead guest.

And she's talking about her son, Cody. And she says says you know he has a stage in his bedroom and Jay's like what he's got a stage and lights her son she says you know kids love to put on shows and he goes

yeah the gay kids do fucking place went crazy the Tonight Show audience went nuts laughing and she was out of tears. She was laughing so hard. And I saw him after the segment break go up to somebody and go like, they cut it out.

It didn't air. And I know that was him going like, let's not use that. So that's his goal. People get to have their own fucking goals. Well, to those guys that were coming up in that era, that spot was the crown That was that was the that was the throne if you could host the tonight show You were the fucking man and everybody wanted the tonight show gig and he protected that thing like it was a sacred

Institution right and that's what he had always wanted and he still did stand up. He was so he has a strange strategy though He doesn't have any material that's out there. He goes, hey, if I put my stuff out there, you know how much that cost me? He still believes that. He still believes that. I'll lose a half a million dollars. He had this idea in his head that he couldn't do his act then

because his act would be out there. Which is, you know, that's his take on things. He's at his best doing his car show because that's when you get to see the real Jay Leno is because he fucking loves cars. I've had so many conversations with that guy who will just go deep into cars and just, he loves

them. And it's not like he loves cars that make him look like a baller. No, he loves like old steam powered engines. He loves like weird fucking tires. He knows everything. Everything. One time I did the Tonight Show, and after my set, he said,

hey, stick around. Do you have to go somewhere? And I was like, no. Yeah, hang around. I didn't know what that meant, so I went back to my room, my dressing room, and one of the producers said,

hey, Jay wants to talk to you. So I didn't know what it was. So I wait for a while, and he comes with a motorcycle helmet, and he goes, hey, let me to talk to you. So I hang up. I didn't know what it was. So I wait for a while, and he comes with a motorcycle helmet. And he goes, hey, let me show you. That's my new bike. He takes me out and shows me he has a jet motorcycle. He had created it.

It's a jet engine with a motorcycle frame built around it. And I go, wow, is that a jet? And he goes, yeah, yeah. I took it out of a helicopter, and I put it on this. And he starts it, and there's this blue flame coming out of the back. And he's, and he puts down the visor, and he just takes off. And he's not circling around. I just hear him fading in the distance, and I go to the producers.

So is that it? And she goes, yeah, you can go. He didn't even say anything. He was, like, talking. Just, yeah, you can go. He didn't even say anything. Like talking. Yeah. Look at this. Also imagine this guy who's the host of the tonight show, who just rides a motorcycle to work.

Yeah. Like he would ride a motorcycle to work all the time. Like all the fucking money that's banking on him is the biggest fucking show and talk show. And this guy's out there on a motorcycle, experimental motorcycle. He told me another time, cause I asked him about that bike that he got he had to pay for a guy's lamborghini because he melted the front of a lamb it was too

close and he gunned it and he just melted the whole front of a car so well he probably had spare parts at his fucking place sure he has 11 garages there's 11 warehouses filled with cars when i went to his place, I saw one warehouse. And I was like, this is incredible. I brought my car there and we did this little segment on my car. And he goes, yeah, I got 11 of these. I go, you have 11 of these? And he goes, yeah, basically.

Yeah, 10 was not enough. He's got 11 giant warehouses filled with cars. And it's fucking immaculate. Like you could eat off the floor. And there's all these really cool old automotive signs on the wall, and it's like fucking incredible. Strange. Now I have to piss. Sorry.

Oh, God. Perfect timing. I like Jay Leno, too. Just you and me, Joe List. How you feeling? I don't know. I don't know if I can handle this. You're fine.

It's bad. Your special that you did, how long did you work on the material to put this together? Because this is like post-pandemic. Yeah. So I did. I can't do it like that because I get too much extra material so I can protect it. So I have like an hour and then I keep going until I have like an hour 20, hour 25 or whatever. And then, so I shot a special in 2019,

no, 2020, right before it all went down. That was my I Hate Myself YouTube special, which did really well. And then, so I had like an extra 20 and then I went from there and added, so the next one came out like a year and a half later. Oh, wow. Which I was really proud of, and that one's called This Year's Material.

And now I'm touring with another new hour. So I feel like I'm very quietly prolific. That's awesome. Thanks. And when you're putting together the special, like when you release it, how much time do you have before you start touring again well I have to just go back out so I waited I shot it in December I didn't release it until like the end of April because I was like I got to come up with that because it's not like I have a legion of

fans but I'm doing okay now I'm selling some tickets you know I go into percentage deal making enough that it's like I hate telling a joke that somebody's already heard so i didn't release it and for i gave myself like four months to come up with the other 25 at least so i could do 45 that wasn't out there already so i was it was in the can but i was still doing those jokes for like four months before i released it and i didn't release it until i had like another you know 38 ish minutes, and then the other I Do like 45 50 on the road so I had enough that I could do and then tool around a little bit now

I feel like I have like a full 50 or so minutes in this this special that you're putting out When is it gonna come out in September? No? No? No that was Bobby special that he shot When is yours coming mine is I have one out right now, and then I'm just touring with this new hour. Oh, I thought you were doing a new one soon. No, no, this one just came out, I don't know what it was, a couple months ago. Oh. Called This Year's Material, but now I'm touring with this new stuff.

So if people go watch these two that I put out in the last couple years, and then come see me, it's totally different stuff. But this one I'm just going to tour with because that's how I make money. So I got to keep it for a while at least. Is your podcast doing well too? Podcast does well, yeah. It's with Norman, Tuesdays with Stories. And we do.

It does really well. I mean, to me it does really well. I don't know what. I think we have like 100,000 people every episode. And Norman's just blown up. No, Norman's killing it. And when you first started doing the podcast, like how long ago was that? We started almost nine years ago.

Wow. September's nine years. Yeah, it's crazy. That's awesome to be able to do it with another person and keep doing it for that long, too, because so many times guys start out like history hyenas or whatever, and then they just can't do it with each other anymore. Yeah, I'm so grateful for Mark because I had the idea to do this podcast and Mark's the only person I considered.

He was up for doing it. And we have never had an issue ever. We love doing it, I think. I mean, I can't speak for him, but we've never had like a, no, fuck that, dude. You fucking, like we've never had any of that shit. We have a blast and it's pure comedy. We don't do any of that shit. We have a blast, and it's pure comedy. We don't do any interviews or anything.

It's just pure, silly, fucking irreverent horse shit, and we have a blast. Mark is such a great guy. Great guy. I mean, I literally just flew in from his bachelor party. We had the time of our lives with Ari and Bert and Mark. He's such a joke machine. Yeah, I mean, that's what I love about Mark is he's pure funny. I mean, we're talking about DePaulo.

DePaulo and Mark are the two funniest people I've ever met They're one and two with respect to everybody just just hanging out. Yeah, I mean just Mark is is pure funny. I mean he to the point that he can't not be serious. It's his only Character defect is that you're like can you just be serious for like one moment? I do a podcast with Ari Shane Shane Gillis, and Mark Norman. We do it like every month. It's called Protect Our Parks. Because Ari Shafir had this fucking thing about this park in New York that they were going to tear down and turn into like apartment buildings or something like that.

And he was like, we have to stop this. We have to stop this. And so Shane just kept railing on it. We've got to protect the park. And he's like 15 Bud lights into the podcast Yeah, and it just became the name of the podcast protect our parks. They turn the park into a fun. They leveled the park It's gone and it But that podcast is the most fun podcast I ever do we get obliterated

We just drink and smoke weed and just get ridiculous. And then afterwards, we have a conversation. Like, do you want to leave that one in? Yeah, you got to cut half of it out. Like, it's always Gillis. Like, he's like, maybe we should cut that part out. It's like when he's 13, 14, Bud Light's in. He has an astounding capacity to consume alcohol. Yeah, he's a big, big fellow with a lot of room for booze. Ari tried to go beer for beer with him the last podcast.

That was his goal. And at 14 beers in, he's throwing up in a cooler and sleeping on the floor. Yeah, bad idea. I mean, Ari's like a 64-year-old skinny Jew, and he's not a drinker. I mean, he drinks, but that's not his thing. So that was a bad idea. But I'm sad I missed Shane drinking. We didn't get to cross paths, but we could have had some fun.

When did you quit drinking? How long ago was that? Almost 10 years ago. December's 10 years. Yeah. So there's a few people I never got to drink with. Ari I became friends with right after I got sober, or maybe a little bit before I got sober. I never got to drink with him. And same with Shane.

So it's sad. I mean, we were just at the bachelor party and you're like, man, I want to go. Do you miss it? Do you miss boozing? A little bit, but not really. I mean, we had this bachelor party at the beginning when everyone's getting drinks and doing shots but then the next morning i wake up and i fucking go swim in the ocean while everyone's you know vomiting and and laying on the ground it makes you grateful but those guys must be dying because right now i feel hung up my head is fucking

pounding because we slept two hours a night we're smoking three cigars a day i'm like dying without drinking so those guys i can't imagine what they feel like right now i love my text from shane that because we slept two hours a night. We're smoking three cigars a day. I'm like dying without drinking. So those guys, I can't imagine what they feel like right now. I love my text from Shane that I get after we all go out and get fucking hammered. He's like, that's it. I'm done. Never doing this again. Cut to five hours later, we're doing a show and he's drinking.

I always text Shane and just I'll tell Shane, I go, I'm here. I'm here when you're ready. Let me know. But no. I mean, the thing is, Joe, when you were drinking and had fellowship with drinkers, you have that fellowship now, you know, in sobriety. Yeah. Because Joe looks after a lot of people in the New York scene who are trying to stay

sober. I mean, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. No, yeah. We made a movie about it. Yeah. It's called Fourth of July. It's available now on louisck.com. It is now.

Please buy it. But yeah, no, you can still have it. The people that are like, what the fuck, man? Those aren't your friends. So, I mean, we just did a three-day bender, and they're drinking. I'm not. We all get along. It's all fine.

That's amazing that you can do that, that you can just hang with people that are getting hammered. Yeah. I mean, I work it. I'm an actively sober guy. So do you go to meetings? I go to meetings. I run meetings, the whole thing. I'm an actively sober guy. So do you go to meetings? I go to meetings. I run meetings, the whole thing. Oh, you run meetings?

Yeah. Well, when the pandemic started, there was nowhere to go. Same with comedy. It's the same thing where it's like, wait, what the fuck? So I started a Zoom meeting for comics. And at first it was like seven, eight people. And then it's blown up and it's still going. I'm not always there, but now it's like this big thing.

I'm really proud of it. Yeah, Zoom was really good for AA, I think, for a lot of people. Absolutely. It's fantastic. I mean, you can walk around, listen to it. You can have meetings from people around the world. It was awesome. Thank God I never did Zoom comedy, though.

I watched Zoom comedy. Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Just don't do it. There is one great thing about it. I'm not ever doing it again, but the nice thing was it ends and you just close your computer and turn the fucking ballgame on. There's no like meet and greet or like meeting the lady and being like, hi. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It was a good ride. John Heffron was doing Zoom comedy long before the pandemic. But he was doing it in a different way. It wasn't Zoom. He does a lot of corporate gigs because he's very clean, and he did these gigs where he would be in front of a monitor that would have all the people that were watching him.

He could see their faces. Kind of like a king of comedy when he's in front of that thing. Yes, yeah, kind of. I mean, he would be in a room. He would go and do his act. He would see their faces as they were laughing. I remember watching sporting events where they'd have that, like the wall of faces, and I horribly thought,

that's going to be life? Is that going to be life now? It might be. Yeah. It might be one day. I think people are choosing to be together again. I think they are, but I think VR might be the next step to remove people from that.

Somehow it never quite takes off. I think, I don't know if it's, there'll be some people that do it, you know? VR porn would be, I'm sure that exists already. It exists. But I mean, I would love to have sex with my wife, the video of, you know, my dad on it or whatever. What?

Sounds great. That was a a whatever that deserves more words whatever yeah i think you should have kept going with that thought yeah i want to fuck my dad that's all sure that's the end of the thought who does vr everybody wants to vr fuck their dad yeah yeah i want to really fuck i think vr fucking psycho vr is going to get better and better to the point where it's going to be like you're actually there. And that's going to get really weird. Yeah. And that's coming, whether we like it or not. Maybe we're not even here right now.

That's what Elon believes. He believes it's a simulation. That's a good one. Yeah, but if it's a simulation, we're still here. Could be better, too. Yeah. Arthritis in a simulation. Do you take CBD?

No. Dave Foley had pretty bad arthritis where it was like he couldn't extend his fingers. And he started taking CBD every day and it completely went away. No shit. Yeah. All right, I'm sold. It's an inflammation issue. Yeah.

Like if you alter your diet and you change some lifestyle things and do some cold plunges and stuff. I don't have any fluid in there. It's just bone on bone. Oh. So it just hurts all the time. Are you drinking water? What? I drink a lot any fluid in there. It's just bone on bone. Oh. So it just hurts all the time. Are you drinking water? What?

I drink a lot of water. Okay. A shit ton of water. It's not that then. No, it's not that. It's just, no, that flu, synovial fluid or whatever it is. Yeah, I just have bone. It's in your thumbs.

They showed me on the thing. Yeah. And what's crazy is you go to three different guys. They all tell you that each other are full of shit. Like one guy's told me to get an operation. The other guy's don't do it. And one guy told me to get shots. And the other guy says,

no, the shots are shit. That doesn't help. And you know, nobody agrees. So just live with the pain. It hurts right now. Yeah.

It hurts a bit. If I, it's that right there, that movement fucking hurts. That hurts a lot. Really? Yeah. And it's hard to open shit.

It's, this is the most infuriating one. When I try to close a Ziploc bag, like that fucking hurts, just trying to put a little pressure on the, you know. I have exercises I can do, and I got shots once, and it actually helped for about three months. Was it cortisone? Yeah, I guess.

Yeah. Or heroin, I don't know. You should try CBD. I really think it would help you. I really do. I mean, Dave Foley was on his last leg, and now it just completely went away. His hands were on their last legs. His hand was almost like permanently in a claw.

Oh, jeez. Now it's gone away. It's kind of like Blade Runner. It just means you're dying. Oh, that time. Yeah. Just put a nail in it. You could take your life, too.

I could take my life anytime I want yeah that's not not a horrible option no it's not fuck your dad then take your life and take your dad's life first fuck your dad kill your dad kill yourself that's the next special

that's how things are done or make it so you're on a time delay when you blow your brains out your dad goes Oh my god. My son just killed himself and then boom dad explodes Yeah, it's kind of a like Romeo and Juliet, you know, he thinks you're dead then he kills himself right? Did you not did you know Romeo and Juliet were eight years old in the story? Why? No, I made that up, but they were 13. They were 13. Yeah. 13's pretty close to 8. Yeah.

Alright. Should we end this? Sure. I have to piss again. That's how long it's been. Well, it's 5 o'clock. Oh my god. Three hours later. I have a gig in an hour. My goodness. Do you really? I do a baseball gig, PBL Roundup. It's a minor league

baseball gig with Tom Brenneman. It's really fun. We just talk about baseball? It's virtual. Yeah, we talk about... Just for that league, though, right? What's the league? It's that league, but we talk about the state of baseball stuff.

It's in Montana. Yeah, I got to play minor league baseball for a day with the Missoula Paddleheads. I'm actually going back out there to do it again. Are you a good baseball player? I mean, I was good. I'm better than most 40-year-old comedians that haven't played organized baseball in 20 years. But I just saw Bert this week. I put out a whole video, and as soon as I saw him, he's like, I can fix your swing, man.

I was like, come on, it's pretty good. Is this you out here? This is me. Yeah, I got to coach first base, which was really fun. And the players, they didn't even enjoy me, I don't think. That guy's digging his ear. Yeah, they don't want to look at you. I had a great time.

We had a lot of fun as a kid. But yeah, Pioneer Baseball League, it's a lot of fun. It was pretty great. I was just goofing around. Yeah, having something like that that you do outside of comedy is probably a great thing. Oh, it was so much fun. But yeah, I got to go do that. But the movie is available.

Fourth of July. Fourth of July. It's on my website. Please buy it so I can continue making movies And Bobby Kelly special comes out You say September? Sometime in September Late September at this point

Because I've got to edit it You can watch my series Louie There it is For 30 bucks you get all five seasons You get to stream it anyway for five years And how do you put it on a phone Or like on a television Do you watch it like on Airplay

if you want to watch it on a television? Yeah, you can do all of that. You can do all that. And then my special, I like to tell your listeners because a lot of people don't know, people I run into all the time don't know I've made more specials.

People come up to me and they go, when are you coming back? I go, I made two fucking specials. I made Sincerely right before the pandemic and then I made Sorry, we shot that at the Madison Square Garden Hulu Theater. So these are both brand new specials over the last couple pandemic. And then I made Sorry. We shot that at the Madison Square Garden Hulu Theater. So these are both brand new specials over the last couple years.

They're both fucking great. Thank you. And I really, really love Sorry, man. Sorry was fucking fantastic. Thank you. It was really great. And then you can buy all my specials for $25. It's all seven that I own anyway.

I don't own the Netflix one, which you can see on Netflix, and then one on HBO. I don't own that either. But you can get them all there. All right. Thank you, Joe List. This was a great performance by you. I don't want to hear anything different.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'm really glad you came with me, Joe. We did a Q&A at a show. And Mark and I did a live podcast. And Ari was the guest. And we did Q&A. And some guy goes, why are Mark and Ari so funny on Rogan and you're not?

I was like, you guys are like, don't look at Twitter. And I'm like, this guy just shouted it to me. And I'm like, well, what the fuck? He did that because you talk about it. I don't know. It's the chicken and the egg, I think. But if you want to see me be funny, check out this year's material on YouTube for free. You're a fucking really, really funny comic.

Very funny comic. Good actor. Fucking great actor. And the movie's fantastic. And it's called Fourth of July, and it's material on YouTube for free. You're a fucking really, really funny comic. Very funny comic. I appreciate it. Good actor. Fucking great actor. And the movie's fantastic. And it's called Fourth of July, and it's available on louisck.com right now. That's right. Grateful for you, Joe. Thanks for being here.

Thank you, Joe. Thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate it. My pleasure. Very much. My pleasure. Thanks. It was awesome.

It's great. Newton boys. Look at us. Yes. Look at us. All of us Boston kids. That's right. Pretty great.

All right. That's it. That's a wrap. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.