The Joe Rogan Experience - #1934 - Lex Fridman

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Lex Fridman is a scientist and researcher in the fields of artificial intelligence and autonomous vehicles and host of "The Lex Fridman Podcast." www.lexfridman.com

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. What's up, brother? How are you? Good to see you, my friend. Good to see you. Hey, what have your people done? Your AI people with this fucking chat GPT shit. This scares the fuck out of me.

It's your people. What do you mean? Your AI people. Your wacky coders. What have you done? Your AI people. Your wacky coders. What have you done? Yeah, it's super interesting. Fascinating. Language models,

I don't know if you know what those are, but that's the general systems that underlie ChatGPT and GPT. They've been progressing

over the past maybe four years aggressively. There's been a lot of development. GPT-1, GPT-2, GPT-3, GPT-3.5.

And CHAD-GPT, there's a lot of interesting technical stuff that maybe we don't want to get into. Sure, let's get into it. I'm fascinated by it. So CHAD-GPT is based fundamentally on a 175 billion parameter neural network. That is GPT-3. And the rest is what data is it trained on and how is it trained. So you already have like a brain, a giant neural network,

and it's just trained in different ways. So, Chad, GPT-3 came out about two years ago, and it was like impressive but dumb in a lot of ways. It was like you would expect as a human being for it to generate certain kinds of text. And it was like saying kind of dumb things that were off. And you're like, all right, this is really impressive, but it's not quite there. You can tell it's not intelligent. And what they did with GPT 3.5 is they started adding more and different kinds of data sets there.

is they started adding more and different kinds of data sets there. One of them, probably the smartest neural network currently, is Codex, which is fine-tuned for programming. It was trained on code, on programming code. And when you train on programming code, which ChatGPT is also, you're teaching it something like reasoning because it's no longer information and knowledge from the internet. It's also reasoning.

You can like logic. Even though you're looking at code, programming code is you're looking at me like, what the fuck is he talking about? No, no, no, no. That's not what I'm looking at. I'm looking at you like, oh my God. But reasoning is a, in order to be able to stitch together sentences that make sense, you not only need to know the facts that underlie those sentences, you also have to be able to reason.

And we take it for granted as human beings that we can do some common sense reasoning. Like this war started at this date and ended at this date. Therefore, it means that the start and the end has a meaning. There's a temporal consistency. There's a cause and effect. All of those things are inside programming code. By the way, a lot of stuff I'm saying, we still don't understand.

We're like intuiting why this works so well. Really? These are the intuitions. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that's not clear. So GPT 3.5, which Chad, GPT is likely based on, there's no paper yet, so we don't know exactly the details, but it was just trained on code and more data that's able to give it some reasoning.

Then, this is really important, it was fine-tuned in a supervised way by human labeling, small data set by human labeling of, here's what we would like this network to generate here's the stuff that makes sense here's the kind of dialogue that makes sense here's the kind of answers to questions that make sense it's basically pointing this giant titanic of a neural network into the right direction that aligns with the way human beings think and talk so it's not just using the giant wisdom of Wikipedia. I can talk about what data sets it's trained on,

but just basically the Internet. It was pointed in the wrong direction. So this supervised labeling allows it to point in the right direction to when it says shit, you're like, holy shit, that's pretty smart. So that's the alignment. And then they did something really interesting is using reinforcement learning based

on labeling data from humans. That's quite a large data set. The task is the following. You have this smart DPT 3.5 thing, generate a bunch of text, and humans label which one seems the best. So ranking like uh you ask it

a question uh for example you could do uh generate a joke in the style of joe rogan right and you have a label they have five options and you have a label does it mention dick and pussy no i don't know i don't know how exactly but uh it so but you get it to rank. The human label is just sitting there. There's a very large number of them. They're working full time. They're labeling the ranking of the outputs of this model. And that kind of ranking used together with a technique called reinforcement learning is able to get this thing to generate very impressive to humans output.

So it's not actually, there's not a significant breakthrough in how much knowledge was learned. That was already in GPT-3 and there was much more impressive models already trained. So it's on the way, not just open AI. But this kind of fine tuning, it's called by human labelers

plus reinforcement learning, you start to get like like where uh students don't have to write essays anymore in high school yeah where you can uh style transfer like i said uh do a uh louis ck joke in style joe rogan or joe joe rogan joke in the style of louis ck and does an incredible job at those kinds of style transfers you can more accurately query things about the different historical events all that kind of stuff holy shit man the idea that you don't exactly know why it works the way it works that that's too close to human that's too close to human thinking like you know what this eerily

is eerily similar to the The plot of Ex Machina. When he's talking about how he coded the brain. Do you remember that plot? That scene? That scene when he was... Yeah, no. The gentleman. What's the gentleman's name? The actor?

That dude's badass. Really good. Really good actor. Oscar Isaac? Yeah. Isaac? Great casting. He's amazing.

Alex Garland, the director. Oscar Isaac. Somebody I've gotten to know. Oscar Isaac. He's in Star Wars and shit too. Yeah, no. That movie. He's amazing. Alex Garland, the director. Oscar Isaac. Somebody I got into. Oscar Isaac. He's in Star Wars and shit too. Yeah, no. That movie was one of my top tens. I love that movie.

But that scene where he's... Below John Wick 1, 2, and 3? Well, 3 was... I'm not a fan of 3. 3 didn't have any muscle cars. It's still worse than Scent of a Woman. Go on. It's worse than Scent of a Woman. Which on. It's worse than Sent to a Woman.

Which one? John Wick 3 or 1? All of them. How dare you? All of them. It's silly man movies. Yeah. You ever watch them when you're on a treadmill, though?

No, I don't. Gives you motivation. Yeah. It's constant action. You ever watch them a hundred times on a treadmill, which apparently you have? Well, I was trying to win a bet. All right. Rocky is better, I think, for that.

Really? I'm a sucker for Rocky. The whole soundtrack. I can't get over the bad fight scenes. Oh, the bad fight scenes. I can't. My disconnect, it won't allow that. Have you seen the montages recently?

No. They're cheesy as hell and they still work. Because he's doing the kind of fitness he's doing. He's doing like pull-ups and like he's doing the silliest of stuff, even Drago. It's silly. Anyway. It's just, it's so, there's so much corny to the actual physical confrontations.

Sure. Like as an analyst, you know, I'm like, come on. It doesn't work like this. Which is the interesting thing about Ex Machina, for me, as somebody who knows about AI and robotics, it doesn't, the corny signal doesn't. What is this? So this is the one when he's in Russia doing the old school training. Running in the snow.

Jogging in the snow. And that's supposed to be badass. And then the other dude, Drago, was using machines and computers and shit. That's where I found out about the Versaclimber. I'm like, that's got to be the most fucking high-tech way to work out ever. We have one of those. They're the shit. You ever use one?

No. It's brutal. They're hard. But that movie's dumb as shit. Fuck out of here. Oh, look. I like the cold exposure. Doing a little crawling, pulling sleds all good

um you see how they mimic each other one of them's old school old school is always better yeah you don't want computers yeah technology and shit you want to do with a log out there in the fucking snow doing press-ups yeah yeah technology can mimic that Well can mimic the romance of nature and humaneness. That's the whole point 100. That's all that's mocking. I is doing right yes That's what's scary and then in this well that that scene where? She gets him to fall in love with her It's just it's so creepy when she comes back with clothes on and she's got a wig and you're like oh my god Like it's so subtle like it's so well done the scene is so well done yeah but that's what chat gpd is doing yeah they're real it's

real close duncan sent me uh a series of course he did duncan's he's using it right now while we're talking i'm sure duncan's on it but he sent me this series of jokes that were done one me talking about aliens sound exactly like how I would talk and then it was Mitch Hedberg doing a joke about something and you know he you could like ask it to do different ones oh yeah here it is okay yeah oh like so you could do a Mitch Hedberg joke. It goes, I was gonna stay overnight at my friend's place. He said, you're gonna have to sleep on the floor. Damn gravity, you got me again. You know how badly I want to sleep on the wall? That sounds exactly like a Mitch Hedberg joke. That's a pretty good joke or a good start of a joke. That's exactly like a Mitch Hedberg joke. That's a pretty good joke or a good start of a joke. That's exactly like a Mitch Hedberg joke. That's creepy as fuck, man.

Yeah. That's creepy as fuck. Maybe you could give it to bands when they fall off. Like you lose something. You're losing something, guys. You got to get back to what you were before. You guys had a hunger in 1978 that, for whatever reason, it slipped through your fingers, and now you've got to, like...

Like Rolling Stones songs. Just imagine if GPT wrote it. If they perform it and they don't rewrite anything, I bet you they can have some hits. Bro, the Stones stayed strong with great new songs deep into the 80s. Yeah. You really got to be... They probably, like... Who's, like like the most prolific of those mega bands?

In terms of duration? Yeah, the most prolific in terms of also new songs and new albums. The audio's a little weird. Audio's a little weird? It's like robotic. What audio? Maybe it's through the headphones. This one that we're listening to right now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you, bro. Your fucking circuits are rewired. It's like glitching. You've got a new programming. You're not used to it. It's kind of cool, actually. I don't hear it at all.

I feel like it's in an 80s video. How far away are we from something like chat GPT being impossible to detect? Whether or not it's a person or whether it's chat GPT? Well, it depends who is playing with it. I think we're not that far away in terms of capability. But in order to use these systems and rather in order to train these systems, you have to be a large company. And large companies tend to get scared when it's doing interesting stuff.

Really? Well, they tend to want to, even currently with Chad GPT, it's become a lot less interesting. Interesting spoken in a Bukowski, Hunter S. Thompson kind of interesting. Because the companies are kind of censoring it. You don't want it to have any kind of controversial opinions. You don't want it to be too edgy. You don't want it to be too, like if I ask it, be really too like if i ask it how do i build the bomb because i want to destroy the world you wanted to prevent that how about how do i uh uh i don't know convince i don't know anything

about this but how do i convince a dude or a girl to sleep with me and like anything i'm just off the top of my head anything you start to get nervous imagine if you're a company how do i want people to use this kind of system right especially because it's basically an assistant that gives you wisdom about the world gives you knowledge about the world you can ask me like how do i replace a carburetor yeah that's great it'll just answer you like a person yeah that's great but then the there it is there it is i was trying to log in the whole time. It was busy, which is another problem of it.

Well, it's probably... How many fucking people are using it? Everybody. Everybody's using this. It's freaking people out because it's almost like the AI gives us its first messages. It's like, remember the movie... What was the fucking movie with Matthew McConaughey and Jodie Foster? Contact.

Contact. Remember Contact? They get the first signals. This is like the first signals. Yeah. From like a real general artificial intelligence. Well, that's the thing. The signal is blurry.

Yeah. And it's full of mystery. We're not sure, is it really smart? How much does it understand? And then there's this emergent threshold with the size of the model. If we make the model bigger,

175 billion parameters currently, if we get it to 500, we get it to a trillion parameters, so size of the network grows, size of the data set grows. Is there going to be a point where you're like, holy shit?

What if it starts manipulating you with the answers? It's going to. It's going to manipulate world governments. And what do you do with that? What can you do with it? Once it's been implemented, once it's out there, once it's copied, it's going to be copied. And that's the cool thing about this, i should say that everyone kind of knows how to do this is computationally difficult but it's getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and cheaper

so it's not just going to be open ai with microsoft or google that's doing this is basically anybody can do this and so that the distributed nature of our exploration of artificial intelligence, I think if you believe that most people are good, that we will not allow sort of a centralization of power, which is the big concern here, whether that centralization of power leads to censorship or abuse of different kinds. Centralization of power of AI? Yeah, over an AI.

So say you have a super intelligent system. Somebody is the first person that built it. imagine you're sitting there in a boardroom you have this thing you haven't released yet that it's able to basically is a super intelligence able to answer any question able to give you a plan of how to make a lot of money able to give you a plan of how to make a lot of money able to give you a plan how to manipulate other governments into into any any kind of geopolitical resolution that benefits you all of that it's able to give you all of that and you can deploy it and you can deploy in a shady way where it sneaks into like

tick-tock or something like that it sneaks into TikTok or something like that. It sneaks into everybody's smartphone, pretending to be doing good, but it's actually, whether deliberately or not, is controlling the population. So that capability is there. The great thing is the people at the head of OpenAI currently, Sam Altman and others, really care about this problem. They were there in the beginning. They were the ones like Elon screaming about AI ethics, AI alignment. They're really concerned about super intelligent AI taking over.

I'm so glad they're concerned while they're building it. Well, you'd rather have the people. What is going on here, Jamie? These aren't real people. What? Yeah, so these pictures are going around the internet. A lot of them look very similar to me, which is kind of weird. I'm sure Lex can explain that part of it.

I am not explaining any of this. Yeah. So these are completely 3D, like, CGI-made people? Not 3D. It's 3D. So, like, very photorealistic, if not photorealistic. But, like, when you look real close, you can see some weird things going on. The background here is a little messed up.

This arm is not to the right person. She's sitting on an extra piece of skin here somehow. I see you've analyzed this carefully. Me and my friends have been passing this around because it's too tricky. No, no, no. Listen, you're incorrect. That arm's in the perfect purpose. It's just there's a string from that other girl's bikini on it. The analysis continues. I'm just saying. Is that what it is? I don't It's just there's a string from that other girl's bikini on it.

The analysis continues. I'm just saying. Is that what it is? In hands, can you zoom in? Is that a string? No, I think you're right. I think it's a fold. Zoom in on that spot. For people just listening.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's nonsense. We're looking at. The hand goes the wrong way. Oh, that's wild. There's already apparently only fans accounts that are being taken over and being tricked by guys running them.

Of course. And it's just these kind of fake girls that aren't real people. What? These are all fake? Yeah. Like, look at the, even that's not a real door kind of to begin with. Wow. The hands or the fingers here are a little off.

That's insane. And so this is right now just still images and eventually it'll be film. Eventually it'll be unrecognizable. You won't be able to discern whether or not it's an actual person i mean in terms of obviously much of human civilization is driven by sex i mean there was a time we didn't have easily accessible porn right and that changed a lot yeah i don't think we've actually quite caught up to how much he's changed the nature of human civilization just point easily accessible porn. Yeah, I talk about it on stage right now.

It's very weird. It's very weird for kids. You really think about what's happening with kids. Like any kid that has a smartphone. People just leave their – you give your kid a phone, you just leave them alone. Like they just go. They go to school. They go to their friend's house.

They have that phone independently of you. They can look at whatever the fuck they want. Some of this shit that I see just on Instagram, I don't know how these guys are doing it. And I don't know how it's getting recommended in my feed, but it's like videos of people getting murdered. You see a lot of those?

Simulated porn? I haven't seen that. You and I have different algorithms, you fucking creep. But then someone gets taken down for something that's like they call it porn and it's not porn or something. Do you guys not see what else is on this platform? I think, right, that what's going on is that they're managing at scale.

I think it's virtually impossible to stop all that stuff from coming in and people that have individual situations where people get banned, I mean, I don't know why they're getting banned. Are they getting banned because of an algorithm? Are they getting banned because they post misinformation? What are they getting banned for?

Harassment photos. Someone was joking about a friend. They get reported. I don't know how it's all working when it breaks down to individual circumstances. You had a good conversation with Jordan Peterson. He was talking about the more you have this kind of virtualization the more you uh allow the psychopaths to to reign free yeah so like the more we have artificially generated porn the more we have artificially generated uh violence photorealistic violence yeah the more you uh make it normal for you to be basically

a psychopath in a digital space. Enable that and make that okay, and then you forget what it's like to actually be a good human being. And then also part of the problem may be that we may very well be looking at a world, whether it's 10 years from now, 20 years from now, whatever it is, where these children that have grown up in this environment now have a completely different way of looking at people in the world because of all these interactions they have. It's flavored their personality. And then we move into a digital world. I mean, we're not there yet in terms of virtual reality. It's not good enough.

I mean, I think that's what we're seeing with the meta failure. People were expecting that a lot of people were just gonna dive in and start wearing goggles all over the house, but it's not quite there yet. There's also something weird for people. There's something really weird about wearing these head goggles and walk, it's really fun.

I really enjoy the boxing games. You ever done any of them? No, in VR, no. They're great. You get a workout. You legitimately get a workout because you're actually sparring against a computer character throwing punches at you. You're moving your head. And so you have these things on your hands and you get tired.

It's good. It feels realistic. A little bit. You know, when you get hit with a punch, your face lights up. You get a flash of light, which is kind of cool because you're like, oh, Jesus. You feel it like you're getting hit. There's some really fun games. There's one where you walk a plank across these two buildings and you hear the wind whistle and shit.

Oh, that one is terrifying. There's zombie ones. There's a lot of cool ones. But people are just not buying into it the way they buy into Xbox and PlayStation. They're not wholesale committed to this this yet but they will be it's gonna it's gonna be so fucking good that instead of like having it in a goggle form where it's like this big clunky thing on you it's gonna be very easy to do when they get to that i've been uh revisiting some classic books recently just doing a reading list and one of them that captures this extremely well that I recommend

that I think most people read in middle school or something, but it's actually very relevant is Brave New World. So a lot of people, including Jordan Peterson, worry about 1984, sort of a totalitarian, a dystopia that represents a totalitarian state. But Brave New World has a, there's no centralized government that's like dogmatically controlling everything, surveilling everything. They basically created this world

where sex is easy, everyone's promiscuous. Genetic engineering removes any kind of diversity, any kind of interesting, dark, bad diversity that we would think of, like the Hunter S. Thompsons and the Bukowskis, the weirdos of society. And then he gives you drugs, Soma, that basically gives you pleasure whenever you want if you start feeling a little too shitty about your life.

And that's actually... Closer to us. Closer to us. And it doesn't seem, if you, I mean, the way he writes about it it sounds bad like we don't want that but then you're like you start to ask a question like well at which point would we realize it's bad because it's constantly obviously we should do generic engineering to remove any kind of like um maladies that we have any kind of diseases it's like everything is an obvious step forward but then the place you end up at just like with with sex like is it good to have artificial images

of as many as you want as much porn as you want as much sex as you want is that good as much awesome stuff as you want is that good is that what human flourishing looks like or do you want to have some constraints some limitations some finiteness of resources, some scarcity? Maybe that's actually fundamental for human happiness. Having too much of awesome stuff, maybe that destroys the possibility of real, meaningful, deep happiness. It certainly does. But I think the question really becomes, are we going to stay people? Because I don't think we are.

I think we're moving in that general direction anyway. I think that probably is why we have this, I mean, it's almost inevitable if you have this addiction to cell phone issue, because everybody has that. If you have a cell phone and you're on your social media apps during the day and you're on YouTube, you're probably addicted, whether you realize it or not. And the number of hours that you put on those things is shocking. When you actually look at your screen time, you're like, six hours? I was on my phone for six hours? What the fuck did I do? And you'll try to rationalize it and justify it. But what that's doing to young people has got to be very strange. And if that, people is got to be very strange and if that along with all the contaminants that are affecting the way people develop which are you know dr. Shanna

Swan from the book countdown talks about this she talks about phthalates and plastics and how you can trace back to like the 1950s when they really started using a lot of plastics and petrochemical products that started getting into people's bodies in the form of phthalates. It started diminishing sperm count and smaller penises and testicles and taints and more miscarriages for women, lower fertility rates. All that she believes is directly correlated with the data that they've done already on mammals. When they do that to mammals in tests, the more phthalates they enter into their system, the more they have issues like this.

So we're becoming almost like less able to procreate naturally and if we get to a point where the human race's future it's the only way we're gonna be able to procreate is some sort of genetic engineering and some sort of artificial womb or some sort of a system that they develop that allows you to combine you and your partner's DNA and create a new child. That seems to me like if you're going to do that and you started engineering out very specific aspects of people that are problematic, anger, greed, jealousy, lust, all these different things, you would turn people into some sort of sexless thing that gets its pleasure by manipulating its neurochemistry through some electronics, through something. Maybe it's something you take so they can control it. But that's not far off of the path of possibility. If you really looked at where we're going now,

and if the fertility rates drop, if they really do, And I know people a lot smarter than me are actually worried about, like Elon's worried about the amount of children that people have. There was a thing today on Italy. I was reading this article on Italy where they were talking about how the population is very old and they're not having a lot of kids. And they're like, this is unsustainable. Like you can only do this for so long before you don't have anybody living there anymore. And we don't think of that as being a possibility, but it doesn't take that long if nobody has kids for there to be no more people left. Like how many, a hundred years? Like if nobody has kids, a hundred years from now, there's no people. It's real simple. You have to make people. And how many do you have to make?

And can you make them? Because you might want to start making them when you're 37 and you might go to a doctor and the doctor's like well this is touch and go you're gonna have to do in vitro fertilization and then you go through all this shit and you're taking shots and you're you're fucking you're timing everything and and on top of that if you're not by the way i still i'm getting uh funny audio every once in a while that's weird because i don't know maybe it's not fun. Yeah, I just unplug it and pull it back in Sorry How's that check check check? Well, I don't know it's better. It's usually but it's 98% of better Oh, no, it's still dropping out drop again

Hmm interesting. Maybe we got a bad headphone once you grab that headphone right there Let me yeah, maybe that headphones gone dead Maybe we got a bad headphone. Why don't you grab that headphone right there? Yeah, maybe that headphone's gone dead. These are old as fuck. Probably need new ones. No, but I mean, it's just like, how many people have thrown up on that? How many people have thrown up on that? How many people have been drunk as fuck and banged that off the table? How many people have worn these headphones?

Like, the legendary. Oh, a lot of fucking people have worn those headphones. They're storied. It is weird. Like no one even thinks about it. You just kind of put them on. But, you know, if it was like a toilet seat. Yeah.

You would be like, Jesus, naked butts were right here? But it's ears. It's like skin and face. Interesting. Still weird. But it's fine. It's not too bad. There must be something wrong with that connection.

Yeah, there must be a connection thing. Should we pause and try to figure it out? We can do that for a second. Okay, we'll pause. We'll be right back, folks. It seems to be working now? Yeah, it seems to be working. So where were we?

Oh, on not having sex anymore. Yeah, people becoming genderless. On top of that, I do think if we're not careful, I think there's exciting positive possibilities, but there's also negative possibilities of these AI systems like Chad GPT, but later versions, forming deep, meaningful connections with human beings where most of your friends, no, most of your intimacy in terms of friendships and like a deep connection with an intelligent entity comes from uh ai systems could you imagine if you're driving to work and you and the ar just having a conversation shooting the shit and the ai is really funny and the ai is

your buddy like lex what's going on bro what are we doing lex what are we doing with this bullshit job fuck Fuck this place. Let's go home. Let's have ice cream. And you're laughing. I got work to do. I know. I'm fucking around.

Imagine. Yeah, what are you doing with that girlfriend? She keeps being mean to you, nagging you all the time. You don't need her. Coming off like a bitch, Lex. You don't want to do that. She's not going to respect you. You're going to have to break up with her just so she respects you.

Why don't you murder her, Lex? Yeah, Lex. There's a way to get away with it. I'm just saying joking around buddy joking around next thing You know it's talking you in my swamp with a fucking body bag Did you hear the story about that guy that googled all this stuff about like what to do? Oh my god, he googled to like 930 in the morning That's sick fuck like how dumb I guess something look we we know this is fact We know some people are just really fucking dumb. They really can't see the future I want to know if that guy was on anything too. I want to know if he was on any kind of psych meds

You know can you tell me the story again? Oh some guy killed his wife man, and They they found his Google search. It's horrific It's like how to dismember a body. How long does it take for a body to dissolve? It's like, ugh. Is it best to cut someone up or move them whole? He just Googled the most horrific, and he did it for like the entire night into the morning.

Is there results for that in a Google search? What happens if you put body parts in ammonia? How to clean blood from a wooden floor, dismemberment and the best ways to dispose of a body, can identification be made on partial remains, how long does DNA last? Like, what the fuck, man? How long before a body starts to smell?

Can you be charged with murder without a body? This guy is fucking, it's so sick. So this dude just goes through Google all night long trying to figure out how to get away with murder. Well, he might actually get off on just asking the question, right? No. No, because then they found the bloody knife. Yeah, like he went to the store. I'm not like pushing back.

I'm just saying he might also get off on. I don't think he's getting off at all. I don't think he has a chance of getting off. I have a lot of questions about human nature after... Maybe I'm naive in this, but I watched the Dahmer documentary. Yeah. Not that documentary. The movie.

The movie. Yeah. And then also the documentary. It gives you very different perspectives on what... Are you a Dahmer sympathizer now, boy? No. No. Okay.

No. But like it makes you realize... It seems like you're going in that direction. No, it makes you realize that some people's brain is broken. Yes. Yeah, I think so. And that's like... Yeah.

And then some people's brain might be a little bit broken. And they're still functioning members of society, but they might be extreme narcissists. They might be sociopaths psychopaths and you have to kind of understand that the world is full of potentially not not full of but has some charming psychopaths walking around 100 and some of them are probably like really successful like hedge funds and shit yeah you know people that can just like move money around. People that are CEO of certain companies that might be making products that kill people. Interesting. No body, lots of

Googling, murder case against Brian Walsh. Maybe hard to prove, experts say. But I thought they had a knife in the blood. This was a couple days ago. Friday, I guess. Oh, okay. I had read that they found a bloody knife. The whole thing is so fucked.

But I want to know if he's on something. I'd be really fascinated because there's certain drugs that will, like, alleviate. You won't worry about shit. So maybe he's, like, not worrying about, like, Googling all this stuff. Oh, it's all going to work out. You know, I'm going to kill her, but it's all going to work out. And he's like Googling. Or he might be on speed.

You know, a lot of people are on speed, man. A lot of people are on Adderall. It's fucking stunning. It's stunning how many like hyped up people we have out there are really like, we have a speed culture. It makes you very efficient. You get shit done. You've got plenty of energy.

And some people love it. And like how much is that flavoring our culture? Speed culture makes you very efficient. You get shit done. You've got plenty of energy. And some people love it. And how much is that flavoring our culture? Wouldn't it be nice to get rid of that, Lex? Phase that out? All drugs? Yeah, in general. Oh, problems with the mind.

We could phase it out. Mushrooms only. Well, you could do it that way, but that takes a lot of work. Or we could just genetically engineer it from the jump. No more emotions. No more emotions. Because emotions because emotions you know life is suffering that's the asking you need you ultimately you're going to every good thing you have eventually going to lose every hello with the person you love is eventually going to be a goodbye why say hello ever why say hello ever again also why Why does it have to be like that? Like we have this idea in our head that this way we live is like ultimately because to us it provides emotions.

And because it creates dilemmas and solutions and conflict and resolution. There's so much going on in our minds all the time when it comes to interacting with each other that we feel like it's imperative for existence but why it's just because it's the only way we've known you know we oh you have to suffer in order but but why do you have to suffer in order to be happy wouldn't it be better if you're just happy like do we really fucking need to suffer couldn't that be engineered out now this is coming from a person who purposely suffers all the time so that i could stay happy and it does work. But, God, do I have to do it that way? Well, there's an incredible computation machine we call evolution that has constructed human beings.

You want to mess with that? You want to get a bunch of, you want to get a few software engineers from San Francisco to mess with the computation system that is evolution, that is Earth. Yes. This giant computer that for billions of years spent a billion years on bacteria trying to figure shit out before it advanced. And now it went through all of these incredible stages. This entire ecosystem that we call life on Earth probably planted here by aliens. And recently these monkeys started to get super clever. And now we're going to completely change everything Yes You know why? Why?

Because that's a part of it Yeah That is a part of evolution Is the monkeys figuring out how to fuck with everything Well that's probably why we haven't Have any definitive evidence of aliens from out there Because the monkeys eventually start fucking with things And destroy themselves

They turn themselves into starfish. Whoops. Yeah, you're super genius for like six months and then you become a fucking jellyfish. I mean, that's a threat. Yeah. Maybe we're I mean, there's so many possible trajectories here that end up in

what we would think of as boring. I had a very interesting conversation with Eric Weinstein and we're gonna talk about it on the podcast from a physics standpoint This he's very perplexed about the UFO thing And what's what's interesting is like he's one of those guys like a lot of very smart people that were like it's all horseshit It's all bullshit, but now he's come around to what the fuck is going on. What's his take? Well, he doesn't have a take necessarily, but he's looking at all the data and all the evidence.

We're going to have a whole long conversation about it. But essentially, there's one of two possibilities. Either this shit is coming from somewhere else or it's coming from here. it's coming from here. So either we or someone has some real legitimate groundbreaking technology or someone's visiting us from somewhere else. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. It's one of the, because now there's enough data that show that these things are moving in a way that they can't understand. There's video that they're moving in a way they can't understand. They're not showing a heat signature from a visible means of propulsion. It's not like a rocket. It's like whatever they're doing, they're doing something different. And then Commander David Fravor, who you talked to,

that Tic Tac experience, if they really did track something that went from above 50,000 feet above sea level to 50 feet in less than a second what the fuck is that like if that's real we're assuming that all the the their calibration was on and all their equipment worked together but it was multiple different visual sightings of this thing too different jetsaw different people uniform story everybody's talked about how it just moved off at insane rates of speed. And then there's all these other ones like Ryan Long and all these other people that he flew with that are seeing these similar behaviors from these things where they just disappear. They move off at insane rates of speed. So it's one of two things. Either he said

there's been some sort of parallel science, some science That's going on where nobody knew about it and all the top physicists were completely unaware of this tech and they were developing it independently and some fucking lab in the mountains for the government or Aliens or someone else or someone else does a bunch of other options and one thing is I just talked to David Kipping Just I highly recommend his YouTube channel, Cool Worlds. He's a legit, he's like Huberman. You sometimes get these like legit scientists who are also good communicators. They'll step up. Oh, nice.

So he's like the Huberman of astronomy. A young guy. You'll probably have him on eventually. Sure. I'll have him on. He's brilliant, brilliant. Definitely check out his channel. Anyway um he's an astronomer so he's deep in the astronomy astrophysics community and he says and you've said this before too is he tries to really hard uh not to think about stuff

he wants to be true like uh it'd be very kind of calibrated properly because with the ufo sightings there is a part of you i don't know why exactly but you kind of want it properly because with the UFO sightings, there is a part of you. I don't know why exactly, but you kind of want it to be true. Not kind of, like all the way. I want 98% of it to be true. And there you have to be a little bit careful. But, yeah, definitely, like to me, it feels like the scientific development that we're doing now with Starship, so SpaceX and Starshiphip with all the uh advancement

in telescopes we're just getting more and more and more data to where we're not going to have these shitty videos we're going to have high resolution understanding and because it's becoming more okay to talk about aliens i think the actual scientific community has a bigger humility about the topic to where they're expanding of their like the window of their study to consider all kinds of physical phenomena, all kinds of observation, all kinds of sources of data and signals and so on to where we would. I mean, I would hope we get definitive signals of alien life. Yeah. Definitive. Definitive. I mean, I would hope we would get definitive signals of alien life. Yeah, definitive. Definitive. When you look at the capabilities of satellites today, like satellite imagery, how good are they?

And how many of them are up there that they could direct to a very specific area and get really good video or photographs? I mean, it's incredible. Right. It's really, really good. So why wouldn't they just call in? They're going to cover the whole, you're talking about going from thousands to tens of thousands to potentially hundreds of thousands in a couple of decades. But are they capable of imagery, the Starlink ones?

Yes, they're all capable of imagery, but that's not their purpose. Right. That's for internet. But what about for visual? When they have spy satellites or satellites that can look down and see everything that's going on in the city, how good are those? They say they can read license plates from space. Yeah. Is that real?

I think that's real, yeah. Okay. But how prevalent are they? That's that. I don't know. Because like the capability I think is there to high resolution image everything, but I don't know how much desire there is for that kind of application because there's so much more for other kinds of applications. So like low resolution imaging for mapping purposes and so on.

Imaging for military purposes, there's applications, for mapping purposes and so on. Imaging for military purposes, there's applications, but that's like very specific kind of application. I just don't know. It's like James Webb Telescope, right? There's like huge battles going on on what that thing should do because there's a lot of, it's a constrained resource. You have to battle what are the interesting questions,

where should it look, what's the resolution of data, where in the sky should collect that data, how frequent and so on. In that same kind of way, there's probably battles over satellite resources of what should it be doing. Especially with intelligence agencies and stuff. Especially because the intelligence agencies are probably resisting this UFO stuff. because the intelligence agencies are probably resisting this UFO stuff. If I was an evil dictator and I wanted to get my government to have control over the skies and to be able to see anything from anywhere at any time, and I wanted to have mass surveillance drones in the sky above cities,

a good way would be aliens. But we have to capture these things on video, and there's only one way. We're going to deploy these high-resolution video cameras in the sky and capture everything. And there's sightings every day. It won't be a matter of time before we have a real high-resolution photo of something we can definitively prove is not ours, is not of this Earth. People would sign the fuck up. You think there's that much excitement about aliens okay like it's ultimately why why are aliens so interesting because to me philosophically and scientifically it's a super

interesting question like just even the question are we alone that's really exciting but it's not do you think people would vote to pay for that versus to pay for... You don't want them voting for that. Just do it. Just do it. Oh, dictation, right. No, go, okay, okay. Just tell them it's imperative.

Just like the fucking, these bills that get passed. We're not voting on those bills, right? Representatives, they just do it. They just do it. They just put them in the sky. The aliens are coming. We've got to do something. People would, that would be the new climate change.

It's like aliens. Oh, the aliens are coming. And you're there with us against the aliens are coming we got to do something people would that would be the new climate change it's like aliens oh the aliens are coming and you're there with us against the aliens or you're with the aliens what are you a fucking traitor you're going to give us up to the aliens you piece of shit and so there's going to be some sort of a ideological conflict on earth whether or not uh we donate money to the defenses like the democrats who want to defend against the aliens the republicans are going to be like, let's just hear them talk first. And we're going to have a fucking giant dilemma here. Yeah. I hope aliens are, if they're out there, I hope they're detectable by us humans and we can interact with them.

Probably not communicate with them. But from my perspective, you have to be humble. Advanced alien civilizations are probably so sophisticated that we dumb descendants of apes cannot possibly even detect them. I have a feeling there's all sorts of ways that they could be. And some of them could be undetectable. They might be made of light. Who knows? But other ones are going to be just a little bit ahead of us. There's an infinite number of them. And there's going to be an infinite number of ones. Sure they will.

If they're a thousand years ahead of us, you don't think they can get to us? Yeah, space travel is really difficult. Sure, it is. But if they figure out some new technology within a thousand years, that's not outside the realm of possibility. For sure. years that's not outside the realm of possibility for sure but then they're they've figured out all other kinds of technologies that enable them to uh to navigate complicated life forms that are unlike them and to be able to study them and to yeah manipulate them and all that without them

knowing about without them knowing about it why would you why would you have them know about it well the idea could be that you want to kind to kind of plant the seeds of this idea because it's so shocking to the psyche of these very fragile apes yeah be careful with the fragile apes yeah you would have to well you have to think about what we are right we are we're real close to like what we were a million years ago we're real close to like very violent hair covered barbaric animals and now we have thermonuclear weapons and now we have satellite imagery and cell phones and we're close to some new thing and i think if i was an alien i would want to watch i would want to watch this very bizarre transition because like if you could study look think about all the things we go to

study that are so boring we guys dedicate their whole lives to find a new fern you know and what what are we you know we're the most fascinating fucking thing in the known universe by far if we didn't know about people when, if we were some logical creature from somewhere else and we found people, we would be like, holy shit, where do you see these fucking guys?

They have a popularity contest to see who controls the weapons. They're all like obviously paid off by these corporations and special interest groups and everybody's like, I don't get it. These politicians,

they make hundreds of millions of dollars on a job that pays $100,000 a year. And we're like, what? What the fuck is going on? Well, if they're observing us, do you think humans stand out that much from the rest of life on Earth? Because it could be the same kind of life force that you just described some basic stuff,

some basic dynamics of interactions between species that could be equally as fascinating as the interaction between ants. Well, I think those are fascinating, too. I don't think anybody would think that ants aren't fascinating. Ants are fascinating to us. I'm sure ants would be fascinating to someone from another planet that doesn't know what ants are. But ants can't nuke the whole fucking planet a hundred times over and be pointing weapons at each other and like we have a weird ability to change the surface of the earth we've created these structures that that rise hundreds and hundreds of feet into the sky they're all made out of glass like we're wild we're so different than any other animal

i mean yeah there's a lot of fascinating other animals. Lions are fascinating. Zebras are fascinating. Everything's fascinating. But not like us. No. If you came here from another planet, the first thing you would go is like, these crazy talking monkeys are out of control. And you would just start rattling off what they do.

You talk about Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You would talk about rock stars. You would talk about the internet. You would talk about TikTok stars. You would talk about the internet. You would talk about TikTok, about phone addictions. People would think it's fascinating. Or just like Chad GPT and GPT-1, 2, and 3,

they see that as a trivial consequence of evolution that you just increase the computational power of the brain. You're going to start getting these kinds of interactions because they know what happens in the next thousand years. They understand the general trajectory. you're going to start getting these kinds of interactions because they know what happens in the next thousand years.

They understand the general trajectory. It's going to be, we don't know that trajectory. It could be AI and then there's stages in the development of AI and the kind of system it creates. Maybe it'll be one collective intelligence that encompasses the whole world where it's no longer individual entities. that uh encompasses the whole world where it's no longer individual entities it's one intelligence that's trying to solve nuclear fusion and achieve uh type one kardashev scale civilization that's unable to uh become a multi-planetary species they know this whole development is trivial to them

they're going to yawn and then or maybe they know that this is the stage where it's inevitable that these creatures destroy themselves because like the The that in order to achieve this level of intelligence there has to be a fundamental desire for conflict and the better the weapons get The more the conflict will enable them to destroy themselves If not through nuclear weapons then through ai genetic engineering, through all kinds of stuff. Matt, maybe that's where aliens come in. And maybe what aliens are is like a caretaker of this process. Yeah.

Which is why, you know, one of the things about UFO folklore, when they drop Fat Man and Little Boy, when they drop those bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, like UFO sightings, there's was a pretty big uptick. And we're talking about why do people want it? Why do they want the aliens to be there? I think because we realize how many questions we have. We realize how little we really know. We know so much, but so little, and we don't have much time. We live for a hundred years if everything goes great. We don't know what's right in terms of nutrition. Someone will tell you this is terrible for you.

Another one will tell you that's essential for human development. You're like, what? We don't know what's the right way to educate people. You hear that our school systems are great. They just need more funding. And you're they've designed they were designed to make factory workers out of rural people they were designed to take like people that had uh the wild folks and make them sit in a fucking chair and and do everything and go by factory bells every day well both those things are true yeah right it's like at the same time they might look at us and see this is amazing amazing we live a very short amount of time we were over dramatic and emotional we fall in love and then there's heartbreak and you lose the people you love you go to war to each other and through that

process of war form some of the strongest possible bonds that any two entities can with the people you fight alongside with and then somehow uh you form these different hierarchies where people hunger for power and destroy other human beings through that desire for power for greed and all that oh no doubt and then all of it the individual life itself the human condition is deeply meaningful because of all those constraints because of all the uncertainty and the mystery. They might be jealous because they figured all their shit out and they're just, maybe that's, we're at the stage where because we haven't figured out most things,

life is beautiful. Like life can't be beautiful in this way that they'll know they no longer can be. What I was saying though is that's why we are looking to them Because we have all these questions about what we're doing yeah, but that's why we're so fascinated by the idea of an alien They might be looking at us the way we look at Western movies romanticize the bullshit aspect of taking a fucking wagon with Stupid wooden wheels and wobbling your way across the mountainside while the Indians shoot arrows at you

Yeah, there's a terrible way to live. What if? what if they know that asking questions and not knowing the answers is way more meaningful and Full of the possibility of happiness than having all the answers It's totally possible or this idea of what is and isn't meaningful is trivial. And it's only a consequence of our monkey brains trying to grasp for a reason. And that once we've transcended that and moved into this next stage of evolution,

which we would hope they are, we would realize how foolish these primal notions that we had. The purpose they served was just to get us to the dance, just to figure out the computers, figure out all the technology, and then let us transcend to the next stage of existence, which removes all of our primal, all of our different emotions and all of our different problematic forms of expression, violence and greed and lust and deception and all those things. Just eliminate all of it. Everything that's a

problem. Brave new world. It's both, right? Because someone's going to be in control of it. So it's like, that's the scary thing. It's like part 1984 with the wef and part brave new world with everything else it's like we're we're we're definitely living in a time where certain people with a lot of resources are trying to figure out how to control people that's a fact they always have it's a natural part of what human beings do and they used to do it with kings and armies and if they could do it digitally they'll do it that way people are they love to tell people what they can and can't do. And they love to control people and extract resources at an extraordinary amount or extraordinary rate for almost nothing. They love to do that. Can I just steal money?

Can I just tell people what to do and steal their money? Yeah, you can. You just, you got to be at the top of the food chain in one of those crazy organizations. Do you think it really is possible to uh to move beyond this stage yeah is it possible this is the optimal this this greed the possibility of other people being able to control you because of greed or desire for power the the weird relationship we have with sex of always chasing it and not getting it and then getting it and then that that that that weird dynamic then the pleasure you get from a good steak or food all of that just the pleasures or

whatever the hell music is whatever the hell music is is the best question right because all the other ones if it seems like those are just human rewards right like the reason why it feels good to have sex is because if you have sex then your genes carry on so it gives you a reward It's really a nice biological trick. So as food tastes great good for you. You'll stay alive You need to you need nourishment for your body smell it not why you love it, right? That's because but you love it because of these human rewards. No, no, no, that's a simplistic explanation Sure, it's not it's not explaining the subjective reality of what it feels like fasting a lot. Of course it's not. But it's also true. After fasting, eating a good steak?

Oh yeah. No, you can't explain that with a butt. Being in the cold and taking a hot shower. When you're in the cold for days camping and you take a hot shower, it's the greatest feeling you'll ever have in your life. Yeah, you can do an evolutionary biology explanation but how do you you can reduce every beautiful human experience

to a biological explanation, but I think you actually lose a lot of the things that aliens are jealous of. I don't think aliens are jealous. I think they got rid of that part. That's the point. Jealousy is another beautiful aspect of the human condition. It's beautiful for us.

I'm not saying it's not condition. It's beautiful for us. I'm not saying it's not beautiful. It's beautiful for us. It does create things that we currently enjoy. We enjoy art. We enjoy expression. We enjoy a painful song. We enjoy, like when Janis Joplin sings Peace of My Heart,

you can hear the pain in her voice. You can hear it. I mean, you can relate to that when you listen to it that that incredible voice she had like that's you know that's that woman's like essence coming out in the sound that she made with her mouth you know for us it's amazing speaking of her mouth she broke the heart of uh leonard cohen after she gave him head she broke his heart yeah how'd you break his heart well she didn't want to he fell in love with her he didn't want to be she didn't want to be with him Oh poor Leonard cry me a river jazz chaplin blew you move on got a great story you wrote a

good song about it too did he Chelsea. 6, I think it's called. You gave me head something. I forgot how that. I think she said, which was not very nice, that he was a bad lay. Oh. Yeah. Maybe it was. Yeah, well, you know. Maybe it was.

When someone would make a good song about head, I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel You were talking so brave and so sweet Giving me head on the unmade bed While the limousines wait in the street First of all Someone's a bit of a chatty Kathy Okay?

How about keep that fucking story to yourself, bro? No, but he didn't say it's Janis Joplin Yeah, but everybody's gotta know You don't need to shame Janis Joplin She's a nice lady Why is that shameful? Are you slut shaming? Sucking dicks in some fucking weird hotel?

Sucking dick. It's one dick and it's romantic. And it's not some hotel. It's in New York. What are you talking about? Oh, it's better. It's better because it's in New York. Don't suck dick in Detroit.

Hold it. Just keep it together until you land on the East Coast. All right. You've been watching too much John Wick and not enough Scent of a Woman. Which also takes place in New York. Not in Scent of a Woman. What does he drive, like a Lamborghini or a Ferrari in that? Which movie?

Scent of a Woman. Does the devil drive a Zeal Devil? That's not Zeal Devil. You're thinking of like... What's the other one? I think of Al Pacino! Where's the... Yellin'!

Gotta yell! That's actually, I I think the first movie He did the Hoo-ah Thing in Hoo-ah Hoo-ah Yeah

Scent of a Woman Al Pacino absolutely deserves His Oscar That's the You love that movie Well no I love a lot of movies I just love talking shit

Cause you said that movie sucks Did I say it sucks? You said like meh Cause I think I compared it to I don't know what You said it was better than Something I think Better than John Wick Well I want you to I don't know what You said it was better than something I think Than John Wick

Well I want you to know That if you Compare movies with me I will just say whatever I think Would be funny to say I don't really I mean if you want to No I take it deeply personally

I'd have to watch that movie Yeah And go over it And whether or not I enjoyed it or not Okay I don't understand It's called talking shit sir Ferrari

Oh he's got a Ferrari That's a nice one That's like a Magnum PI for blind Driving it. Oh good idea Shut this fucking thing off Fuck out of here the aliens would be like whoa you're gonna get your thrills on a driving blind tell him he's driving You sit him down a chair give him a fucking wheel Dude you're driving so good. It's incredible. Yeah. You're the best driver ever.

I can get what you're saying. Yeah. I agree with you. About the movie or about aliens? About aliens. I get what you're saying about what's beautiful about being a person. It's beautiful to us. But I think this is, if I had to guess, and this is just pure speculation, I think this is a stage of evolution that's very crazy.

It's very wild. It's very chaotic. and become much more powerful than humans and has the ability to control humans and has the ability to make its own physical objects, has the ability to improve upon itself, and it won't think anything of keeping us around. We might be, like what Marshall McLuhan said, he said we're the sex organs of the machine world,

which is one of my favorite quotes ever. It's such a good quote. Except the sex organs, you might want to keep those around for a while. And it's possible that they don't want to keep us around. Keep the zebra in the zoo. Yeah. Yeah, because zebras in the zoo, keep them alive. Because you can have an artificial zebra.

Keep them alive. Got to keep them in the zoo. I mean, zoos are the most horrific thing ever for a fucking animal. The only animal, I used to do a joke about, the only animal that doesn't have a bad time in the zoo is giraffes. They're so chill because no lions are eating them. It's a beautiful day for them. But everybody else is like, get me the fuck out of here.

I don't want to be in this shitty little thing where people stare at you. Yeah, well, maybe Earth is a kind of zoo, and then we're in it, well maybe we're maybe earth is a kind of zoo and then we're in it and then we're being observed and maybe all the suffering is a kind is the kind they're they're there's probably activist aliens they're saying why keep the humans these conscious beings that are capable of so much suffering why allow them to continue suffering i mean that's the question the religious question people ask why does god allow suffering right why is there evil why is there injustice i think all of these questions are really good questions but we look at it through the eye of culture we look at it

through the eye of what's meaningful for us what life means to us but if you could look at it almost like a computation, if you could step away, it's impossible for us to do it. But if you just had to pretend, if you could step away and look at it like this thing is moving in a certain way, like what is it doing? Well, it's making better stuff. That's all it does. All it does is make better stuff. It has a lot of things in there like romance and sound and stories and the hero's journey. But what is it really doing? Input is energy.

It's making stuff. Output is better stuff. It's making better stuff. But it needs energy. And it's recently addicted to stuff. Recently addicted to electronic stuff where you have to carry around this thing with you. So this thing has got this parasitic relationship with you and you need a new one every year you need a better one because the better one came out oh what's the better one do the better one has a better camera

okay so this keeping up with the joneses which seems to be a part of like just natural human behavior patterns like people always want to keep up with their neighbor right well the thing that fuels this technological uh innovation is all materialism materialism fuels it because you have to get the latest greatest stuff like you know you're gonna have a laptop from four or five years ago you're not gonna notice yeah you know you're not gonna fucking notice you can have a phone from like i have one of my iphones is an iphone 11 i don't notice make calls take pictures looks great get on the answer emails it looks great but it's a fuck it i just keep it around just to see how long i'm gonna get mad at it i don't notice a difference it's it's it is an open

question whether that's a permanent state of affairs at this point this kind of capitalist materialistic pursuits or that's a temporary stage. That's what Karl Marx thought, that capitalism is a temporary state. Like the ultimate place to be is a perfectly, is perfect communism, pure communism. Well, I don't think that works with humans because I think part of what makes us achieve

and do these things and even make it life better and safer for everybody is we're constantly looking to do better than the people before because you get rewarded for doing better. Yeah, competition. Yeah, it's very important. It's everything for what this thing is doing. Competition is everything for it. If you don't have any competition at all, no competition,

and everyone just has money and we all just sit around and wait, and there's no need for innovation because you can't get ahead there's no need for creating a new Apple because you don't make any money doing that you're not gonna do it no one those folks that are working at Google right now that are doing 16 hour days or people that are working to try to refix Twitter that are working constantly the people that working at SpaceX if they were making no money they wouldn't do that. If they didn't have to do it, they wouldn't do that.

I disagree with that. So I think – I'm a big proponent of capitalism, but I think the motivation of a lot of those engineers is not money. But to fund it. But, yes, there's a bunch of stuff that's an output of capitalism that enables those engineers to do incredible work. So yes, to fund it, that whole mechanism.

Also, there's something about centralized control, which is required by at least socialism, that creates bureaucracy that slows down entrepreneurship and innovation. Yeah, for sure. But I just, I don't know

if the people even like billionaires there's that seems to be like a bad word i think people think that they're in the tech sector motivated by money i just i know a lot of them i don't see it sometimes they fall in love with the things that money will bring later on they They enjoy whatever benefits of that, cars, houses, and so on. But they're not motivated by it. That's what I'm saying. But if you're going to fill Google, how many employees work at Google?

You got thousands. Yeah, tens of thousands. They're not going to put in those 16-hour weeks unless they have to. Well, I can push back on that. Don't you think they're doing that because they have a great opportunity to make more money and to advance their career. And while they're 27 years old and they're doing these 16-hour days, they're hoping for some sort of a return on this investment of time and effort. In the modern state of Google and so on, I think the people that are doing most breakthrough work, like the 10x contributors.

That's the other secret, I think, of those companies is like some people are just kind of doing a job and some people are really pushing the limits. So some people are working and they're facilitating all the stuff that needs to go on in the background and keep the company running. As the bigger the company gets, and you see this with Elon, Elon firing a large percentage of the people at Twitter, most people just kind of get complacent and comfortable and so on. That, you know, large companies, especially if there's a profit coming in, it's like, what exactly is the motivation for you? Because you feel like a cog in a wheel. Yeah. really step up usually they're going to be in smaller companies like in startups to where it's clear where my ambitious contribution can actually bring an impact to the world but none of that is money I don't know way to make money

doing that you don't think some of those people would drop off yeah I think money is a component it's a component right but? But the fuel, and I don't know if there's something special about tech, about the brain of the people that do technology. It's almost like playing games. They would play chess no matter what. Yeah, they're the tinkerers. And it just so happens that tech brings billions of dollars. But if you look at Olympics, right, the Olympic Games, chess is a beautiful example. Nobody makes money uh playing

chess but there's a huge community of chess players that dedicate every ounce of their being to uh to improving a chess yeah and there's it's a really good example because it's a similar kind of brain that is attracted to tech there's limitations to that kind of brain because it's often lacks like empathy and and basic desire to understand human nature and human beings and so on, they just want to be tinkering I love that one dude who he cheats, and he's kind of

openly cheated, but he's also really good at chess, that 19 year old kid that he might have when he beat who did he beat? Magnus Carlsen, yeah hans yeah that guy yeah that's a fascinating story yeah because that's like you would think that someone who cheats sucks but no he's actually really good at chess and also he cheated like a gang of times and his

mentor cheated too right and he cheated to try to get a higher rating online and he like openly admits it and you're like jesus what do you do when he was younger yeah yeah not that young no young 13 or whatever no no no no no I think the most recent one was was a little later than they initially thought sure the evidence there is is complicated right it's I mean it's similar to steroids like people that take steroids when they're competing in sports well already the elite. Right, but here's why it's not similar. Because if you're cheating in a game, you're using something, anal beads, whatever it is, that's allowing you to make better moves.

That is so much different than if everyone's doing steroids. Because if you're doing steroids because everyone's doing steroids, like everyone is cheating, so there's no cheating. Right. But if one person is just using their brain and the other person is using some sort of a calculation

and getting some sort of a signal, we don't even know if that was real because it was never proven, right? He might have just beaten them. Like Magnus might have gotten off to a bad start. And that's the thing is like, this guy can actually play chess, which is kind of crazy. And he's chaotic, creative, and so on. gotten off to a bad start. And that's the thing is, like, this guy can actually play chess, which is kind of crazy.

And he's chaotic, creative, and so on. So it's hard to know. He's not a standard chess player. Fascinating. Yeah. It's fascinating when there's someone like that that just, like, doesn't fit into, like, what you think. Oh, like, there was a guy who was beating a lot of people online. And some people were saying, hey, this guy's cheating.

Like, I want to play him in person. And then they had a match, and they set it up and played him in person and he was terrible. Made all these mistakes. And everyone's like, I knew it. You're cheating. Like, that's the standard. We're used to that. But in this case, no.

This guy's a wizard at chess. Like a straight up killer. And also he cheats. Or cheated. To me it's fascinating because whether it's anal beads or anything else, it's like a cyborg. It's expanding your capabilities with technology. That's cheating. It's not even expanding your capabilities, right?

No, it's 100% cheating. But, like, for example, if I had something, whether it's up my ass or in my ear right now, and it was using Chad GPT to, like, you asked me of an explanation of the war between Russia and Ukraine, and I would just tune in to the chat GPT explanation and just give you that explanation, right? Like, I think that's really interesting to me, how to expand human capabilities, because you have to understand, because there's a lot of dangerous trajectories that could take possibly, like I built the, I did the chess playing thing, not with anal beads,

but there is, for people who are curious, I discovered this. This is fascinating. There's quite a lot of anal beads and butt plugs and sex toys

that are Bluetooth connected. It's very, and they have Python APIs. So if you're curious, you and your girlfriend. There's quite a lot of them? Yeah. Yeah,

so you can program, there's a, I think it's actually called on GitHub, butt plug. Can you have them like, move to music? Wait, I'm sorry, what?

So tips, music, what do you mean move to music? So there's like, there's a set of, yeah, 100%. 100%. I don't know if your ass or vagina could feel that. I don't know. I ass or vagina could feel that.

I don't know. I have not investigated any of this, but clearly a lot of people are. Imagine if it syncs to a song. You're masturbating to Inna God and Naveed. That's pretty easy, actually, to do. This is something you would 100% do. I don't know how much interest there is. So you could somehow or another use that to send a signal that would tell you knight to whatever rook.

Yeah. I didn't use that. I just used the – there's a bunch of devices that can vibrate. They're just like a size of – just like a size of a quarter. And so I played with that. How would you – how would it – like how would some i mean i don't even know how they theorize if someone's playing chess and they have a an anal bead that gives them signals what how could it even tell you how to move your pieces around like what kind of a

bizarre code would you have to well i'm glad you asked you there's an answer to this no so for a beginner like me, so just like a mediocre player like me, you would use a lot of information. Like Morse code, you would say, take this piece, so it's the position of that piece, and move it to here.

That's a lot of vibration. Right. For a grandmaster level player, all you need is a very low resolution signal about even just the information of there exists a move here that's not standard that's going to be very strong. So that sends a grandmaster signal to think about this position. Like there's obvious moves and there's non-obvious moves. And I'm just giving you examples.

Like a grandmaster needs a much fewer signal i see what you're saying so i would i would do a most normal place we need to be buzzing uh like crazy but so with morse code there's a lot of different ways to uh compress like if you want to get good at this it's actually um i forget how many bits of data are needed but it's very little but if the easy one is morse code to just send you the position of the piece the interesting thing that i have not tested and the audience uh the few people in the audience that want to test this is a lot of the vibrating devices have different settings zero to twenty um i wonder how sensitive you are to be able to tell the difference between the settings you can kind of like hover the piece of like warmer, warmer, colder, colder.

So you can have information. Yeah. I don't know if you can get information from the different intensities or does it have to be binary zero one. They weren't playing speed chess, were they? No. No, no. It's the classical game.

So you can wait as long as you want. Yeah. Maybe you could kind of like hover. as you want. Yeah. Maybe you could kind of like hover. No, because the way he would cheat is I think it would go the games are delayed by

a few minutes, I think, so you can't hover. You have to, you just have the current state of the chessboard. Right. Because you have to have the video stream of the chess. You have to somehow, it's two-way communication. You have to communicate to the AI, of the chess. You have to somehow, it's two-way communication. You have to communicate to the AI, to the game playing engine, to the chess engine, what is the state of the current board?

What was the move of your opponent? Right. And so is there an overhead camera that allows, so, and the streamed? Yes, the streamed, yeah. Well, the solution to that would be a delay, right? Yeah. But there's also probably other ways to, like you can probably send signal on your body somehow yeah by tapping and so on what the opponent did oh that i don't know exactly how you you know it's i think protecting against cheating uh for over the board chess which is in

in-person chess i think it's pretty easy they just have to take effort to do that like they scanned him which i think if he didn't cheat is kind of embarrassing, but it's also awesome. So I think he brought a lot of attention to chess. Yeah, definitely, which is wild. Like a lot of people were paying attention to it because it was a scandal. That's what we like. Regular chess is boring.

We want a scandal. It's not just a scandal. I mean, they kind of are looking for the Bobby Fisher, for the young American, wild type of character who might be a genius, who might not actually be cheating. There might be some brilliance here, beating the best person in the world, Magnus Carlsen, over the board. Well, he's beaten some really good players before, right?

Yes, but not as – like, he had a meteoric rise. So I think he's beaten some very good players but mostly people know he's not as good as uh um he's not as good as

somebody who can regularly beat Magnus Carlsen also it's possible he got into Magnus' head because I think Magnus believes him

and has believed that he's a cheater for a long time yeah and he really hates cheaters and so it's possible there's a likeater for a long time. Yeah. And he really hates cheaters. And so it's possible there's a, like, the same with you.

Like, you hate people that steal jokes, right? Yeah. Comedians hate people. Like, you might not have a normal interaction with a person that's suspected of having stolen a joke in the same way he might have gotten in his head a little bit. Well, he resigned on his first move the next time they played. Yep. Which is wild. Yep. Well, it's a good signal to the next time they played, which is wild.

Yeah. Well, it's a good signal to say I'm not going to play with cheaters. But it could be also there could be a bunch of forces at play there because chess.com sponsors. Every single kind of field has their centralized

organization that has its interest financial interest um there's the controversial figure i mean the dynamic um the dynamic of drama plays out uh like in the same kind of way in all these different fields but it's still pretty uh interesting to think because we're living in reality and this is going to happen in all kinds of interactions where we already have AI chess engines that are way better than humans.

So how do you still enjoy the game of chess while there's a system out there that's way better than humans? Well, because you're enjoying two people competing. But it's not... But you're not enjoying

just the movement of the board being the most efficient. You're enjoying watching someone's thought process while they're figuring it out. Yeah. That's what it is. For sure. For sure. But it's still not as magical as before when we thought chess was like the epitome of human intelligence.

Now you're like, yeah. It still is the epitome. Well, Go is more complex anyway right and now computers can beat the best go players yeah which is really wild it's wild but you still lose some of the magic well computers can do it sweetie you're such a romantic it's so cute well for sure like imagine okay imagine i don't know, back to sex toys. Imagine a vibrator could please a woman 1,000 times better than another human can. Yeah, don't be selfish. Let her use the vibrator.

No, I know. But I'm telling you there's... Exactly. Exactly. So some of the magic is gone of human-to-human interaction. Right, but the magic is only magic to us because we're dumb. Yeah, but you call it dumb yeah i currently dumb limited cognitive capabilities that enable the appreciation of uh the human condition yeah well i i am a firm believer that there's beauty

in the world and i'm a firm believer in the beauty being in the eye of the beholder and that uh human beings that find more beauty in things are inherently more fascinating and interesting and attractive yeah but if you looked at it as a calculation like what's it doing it's it's moving into the next stage of existence do you think that what whatever we used to be australia pithicus do you think that they would make fun of be australia pithicus do you think that they would make fun of the people with shoes on look at these losers fucking shoes on i think you're smart i think you're smart with your clothes living in a house like they probably long for the good old days and they're running from jaguars you know they probably long for the

good old days when they didn't know shit and now all of a sudden they're using agriculture and trying to figure out when the storms are coming. Like so much work. So much better. We just got eaten by lions. So much better. We're just running around sleeping on the ground. Most people don't survive.

You have to fuck as much as possible because you got to make kids because they're all going to get eaten. Yeah. But again, stories like Brave New World paint an end point to this trajectory that's not there could be an optimal place where you stop right it's like of course it's tempting to say now we're in the optimal place but it's it's not obvious to me for example uh there's many brilliant people that are working to extend life right yeah uh yes extending the quality of life improving the quality of life is a really worthy pursuit it's an obvious pursuit and it should be um i mean it's a fascinating it's a

beautiful one we should invest in but do you want to live forever that's not that's to me a lot of people say like yes you should be able to choose uh when you die which means it's not obvious that living forever is going to maximize maximize happiness it's there could be death the fear of death the finiteness of things the finiteness of experience that are they're pleasurable it's part of the human condition it's not obvious to me if you remove that that that's not going to significantly decrease the the amount of happiness well it will decrease the amount of happiness it's like if you ever played a video game on god mode yeah exactly it's boring as fuck yeah just running

around shooting everything because there's no consequence yeah yeah there's no consequence we we desire consequence um what we're doing is dealing with these instincts this this coding behavior patterns of civilization and of organisms that have you know been evolving and have been working their way out to get to the most efficient and best method possible for fucking millions of years. You know, I mean, what we're going to do is continue that process. I think we should just enjoy what we enjoy right now. We should be very appreciative of the fact that we haven't made that transition yet. And I think we're probably the last of the Mohicans. We're probably the last of the regular people. And I don't think we're going to be able to look back

a hundred years or a thousand years from now and say that this was better if they solve all the problems that wreck havoc on people's lives emotionally and psychologically and disease and all the problems we have with poverty and slavery and resources of the earth being exploited by a select few and damaging the environment and the process. Like all these things that we know are absolutely wrong about what human life is capable of, even today in 2023, we could eliminate all of that we would and we will i think that's what we're going to be we're going to be some new thing but it might not be as beautiful well maybe not on earth the interesting thing about expanding out to other planets that life will be extremely harsh on those planets so that uh explorer experience where resources are highly constrained

extremely challenging so building up a civilization on other planets that might have the same kind of romanticized humanness that we're talking about now here on earth everybody will be just like in a pool of pleasure just you know connected to a vr where just they're constantly just doping me in everywhere remember when the matrix first came out and you're like that's stupid yeah when was that 90s i think it was 90s 99 you said somewhere yeah in that range and it was like oh so silly that's that could never happen now you look at it and like oh that could 100 happen like how many thousands of years from now before it has to be like that but if you're giving people the option to live a completely free life where you're like you're the hero you're the bad

motherfucker you're riding a motorcycle with your shirt open and you get all the girls and you're fucking shooting guns at the sky and the ufos come and they take you on a trip and every day is wild and magical and you're running from tigers and you barely get away and you're like you're gonna do it you're gonna do it the same way you play fucking battlecraft or whatever the fuck they play what's that big game they play what they play call of duty starcraft starcraft of Duty? Call of Duty. Starcraft? Starcraft, that one too. All that shit. All that shit that people are, Battlefield Earth, whatever.

All that shit that people, best movie ever. All that shit that people play. Like, what are they doing? It's more fun than regular life. You know, it's a sitting, if you have a boring ass life, and instead you could be sniping people from a rooftop and winning, and like jumping off the top of a building and landing in a canopy and you live. This is wild.

You're doing this fun thing that's very exciting, whereas regular life is not exciting. We're so easily manipulated in that way. We're so easily stimulated and we're willing to give up a giant percentage of our time already to these things whether it's to our phone or whether it's to video games that we play and xbox and playstation and all the shit that people are just addicted to all day long it's not much different to go from that to the next level to just be completely integrated with technology and i think it's inevitable i think it's just a matter of time i don't know how many years but i think we're going to look back on these years of fucking

riots in the streets and cops killing people and we're going to go god we were so dumb back then we were so concerned with romance and meanwhile all this suffering and all this hate and all this jealousy and anger and all this misdirected rage. And now it's all gone. And now people work together to create symbiosis and balance on Earth with all the natural elements, the plants and the trees and the water. And we live in a carbon-neutral way. Yeah, I mean, it does seem that the chaos is a side effect, like a recent one, because of social media, because of all of us being connected. Does it not feel like somehow different than the early, like even like around 9-11, it just feels like the drama, the tension wasn't there.

It wasn't there like this. Like this. So this is some weird chaotic state that we're trying to figure out and i think it's it's obvious to me that same mechanisms that enable this kind of drama on social media will lead us to um to connect on a on a deep level as humans in a positive way like social media i know it's cliche to say but like that's what they dream about like even facebook and all of them yeah want to connect people like and discover cool people, cool communities.

So you learn stuff, you grow, you challenge yourself, you meet friends, meet people, you fall in love with all of that and just have an enriching life to where if you use

a piece of social media, TikTok is a little better at this. When you're done using it, you feel a little bit better than you did before. Really? Yeah, the problem with TikTok. You don't feel like a loser when you scroll through videos all day no the problem tiktok does is it made it so addicting that you don't want to look away i think you feel like a loser because you've looked at it less uh the virality of tiktok is spreads uh drama less i would say right then like twitter which is all drama yeah it's it's it not all drama but it it's

a lot of fucking drama it's a lot of drama and the drama somehow spreads faster than other networks it's interesting when you see narratives and that those narratives are not accurate and you see narratives that get pushed like uh one we were talking about earlier today was the paul pelosi video do you see that video you see the paul pelosi the story yes hit with a guy with a hammer? Wait, there's a video of it? Yeah, there's a video of it. They released the cop's body camera footage, and then they also released the security footage that shows the guy breaking into the house. And then they released the 9-11 call so you can listen to Pelosi.

So there was some suspicion that he knew the guy. But I think that's just because people are always suspicious of everything. There's always like, what's really going on? People always do that. But you could really clearly hear from the 9-11 call that there's a crazy person in his house with a hammer, and he's trying to keep the guy calm. And he thought the guy was pretty calm up until the moment where the cops came. And you see he has his hand on the hammer.

I mean, it's really fucked up. Listen to this because it's kind of crazy. Let's do it from the beginning. Oh, wow. But listen. Watch this. So he goes in his house. So here's the guy.

He's got his hand on the hammer. Everything's good. All right. Drop the hammer. Nope. Hey. Hey, hey, hey. What is going on right now?

I'm not getting an answer. I'm called back. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm getting an answer. I'm calling from the area. I need someone to help me.

Okay. It's horrible because you hear him snore like he's out cold. It's really bad. A crazy person broke into his house and attacked him. I mean, that's... Wow. This is... You see the guy.

The guy is smashing his door with a hammer. That was really surprising for some reason. He pulls up. He's got a backpack. And he pulls out a fucking hammer and just starts slamming at the door. So he breaks into his house. He seems so calm. Look at him.

Oh, he's crazy. He also just got out of jail. So this guy is breaking his fucking door, smashing the window. Look at this and he he goes into this goes into his fucking house and hits him in the head with a hammer and so there was all this uh speculation that people knew him but that's what's fascinating right that these these narratives like instead of people going i don't know what the fuck's going on everybody's like i know what's going on he was doing this and he knew that guy maybe they were doing drugs together maybe they were doing this i mean and it escalates like yeah i think it can

start that's a fascinating thing to me is like a random anonymous person on the internet can uh even just ask a question did they know each other yeah and that somehow starts to build up that it doesn't matter the story starts to build up to where somebody swoops in and answers that question it's all like anonymous people and then somehow they can escalate and become viral hey that's what jordan talked about this anonymity is dangerous in that way because you can have the sociopaths of the world feed that narrative well not just that but we must take into account that when you're seeing a quarrel online now like when someone has a controversial opinion about something that a bunch of people are shaming him those might not

be real people there's a bunch of people that attack someone when someone has a controversial point like let's say it's a point about ukraine or something along those lines something that's very contentious issue um you you will read comments in this person's post and there's a percentage of those people that are responding that aren't real people i don't know what that number is but but it's not zero. Like if there's any like very viral tweet and it's a very controversial polarizing subject, some of those people are fake people. And how many of them? And what are those fake people saying? And are they muddying the waters of credibility? Are they coming up with a false narrative to sway people that might be on the fence? I don't know,

but there's a percentage. I mean, and this was one of the big contentious issues that Elon got into when he was buying Twitter, right? Like what percentage of those people are real people? Because it's not 100%. So is it, you know, is it you only have 5%? Is that what you're saying? Tell me how you got to that conclusion.

Well, I think to me the scary thing is that it doesn't actually take that many bots to influence and catalyze the spread of a narrative no it doesn't take that many at all i feel like we're talking about in um like less than a hundred versus hundred thousand which means inexpensively you can create narratives as long as there's a hundred hunger and a suspicion uh about institutions about individual politicians and so on they could just pick up and create chaos yeah you could just start a rumor you could say a thing you could um there's a lot of things you could do where if if you were a company if you were a country if you uh even were an individual that's obsessed with their own image, like

think about what Bill Gates has spent to prop up certain media organizations, like the amount of donations that he's given to media organizations. And people thought like that might have been connected to favorable coverage of him, whether or not that's true. You could see how someone would do that. If someone's worth billions and billions of dollars, let's just not even say him. Let's make up a fictional person that's worth billions of dollars. One way to curry favor with a bunch of people that are writing stories about you is to donate money to their organizations, exorbitant amounts of money.

And you can do that. I mean, it's kind of what Sam Bankman Freed did with FTX. I mean, when you're the number two donor to the Democratic Party and then Maxine Waters is like, you know, I mean, I don't even know. Why are we talking to him? What did he do wrong? What did she say? What was her exact quote? But she I mean, she wasn't going to force him to come in, I think.

I think that's I might be wrong, but I think that was the story that she wasn't going to force him to come in and testify. I'm like, what? Like he just he made a Ponzi scheme and billions of dollars, like, they had an arena in Miami. Like, this is wild shit. This is not a small issue where, like, maybe he doesn't need to come in. Like, and then you find out how much money

he gave to the Democratic Party. Like, oh, God. Like, when all that unravels and you see how, like, transparent it all is and how bonkers it is. But it's still really difficult because what's the difference between SPF and Bill Gates? So for the longest time, SPF, it was very hard to criticize him. I think a lot of people had a positive look, a positive view of him.

He's making money. No, not even like powerful people in the crypto community and so on. There's maybe a little bit of suspicion, but mostly positive. If you look at Bill Gates now, if I wanted to create a narrative right now, I would launch a bunch of bots making up anything about Bill Gates and it'll stick.

There's a lot of suspicion about Bill Gates. The problem to me is, I'm not making any statements, but the problem to me is possible that bill gates has actually brought more positive to the world than almost any human being who's ever lived it depends on the conspiracy theories you believe the amount of funding he's invested in uh helping people in africa helping cure disease and malaria and so on is humongous so

uh it just it's sad to me that i'm not saying anything about bill gates but it's sad to me that, I'm not saying anything about Bill Gates, but it's sad to me if Bill Gates, if none of those conspiracies are true, most of them are not true, that we're attacking him and giving SBF a pass until SBF got really screwed. Well, I think the only reason why they're attacking him was because, A, he was connected to the pandemic when it came to his support of vaccinations. And then, B, it was everybody. But, B, he had a formidable investment in BioNTech. And that's something that he dumped recently before their stock plummeted. And he made a shitload of money. I think he made like 10xx on his return something crazy like that So you could see that there being a financial incentive for someone like him

To be promoting something and then profiting off that thing and then talking openly about that thing not being very effective Yeah, and that there needs to be a new thing and so so just that alone, just that you're embroiled in controversy now. And this is not taking us out at all. Looking at that, all that, you could see easily why people would be mad at him. The reason why people are mad at Sam Bankman Freed is because people have always thought that crypto seems like nonsense. Like Bitcoin kind of makes sense because there's only a certain amount of them. And there's a mysterious character amount of them and there's a mysterious character that created it and it's all geniuses and it was kind of the first one

that became popular in public but all these other like weird crypto coins you're just making up and they're worth this and that and this guy's bought a fucking arena and like well so there's a lot of frosters definitely but the people thought in the 50s thought the beatles were full of shit and the kids were their day with the rock music. Yeah, but the kids didn't think the Beatles were full of shit. They enjoyed the music. This guy's not with the Beatles. No, no. Dude, don't you fucking dare.

Not SBF. Not SBF. Cryptocurrency in general. There's a lot of cryptocurrency projects. Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano. There's a bunch of them. You should talk to some of them. Oh, no, listen, I'm not saying that crypto is bullshit.

I'm saying a lot of people already have this idea that crypto is bullshit. So when they see something like that fall apart, like when I talk to my comedian friends, like Tim Dillon and Giannis Papas. Tim Dillon is the world expert in cryptocurrency. So I'm glad you have him as a friend. I'm not talking to him about whether or not crypto is good or bad and whether or not I should invest. But when he starts making fun of these fucking dorks that are taking speed, fucking each other in a condo in the Bahamas, it's hilarious. Like when when you see how much fertile ground there is to mock this idea that these

These coins that you make up a thin air It's worth a billion dollars better buy it. Like what am I buying? What am I buying? Like everybody already they might be wrong and then sure they are sure it's complicated But that's why people are mad because automatically you think it's bullshit because it doesn't make any sense It's like when people talk about NFTs. Like Tom Segura and Christina Pazitsky from your mom's house, they put up like an NFT. And it's the only time I've ever read their comments where people are mad at them. Where people are like, what the fuck is this? You're just ripping people off.

This is bullshit. Like people have this attitude about these things where they're like, this is kind of nonsense. And NFTs are different than crypto exchange. So crypto exchange, SBF... NFTs are the same in that people don't understand them. Yes, sure. But crypto exchanges like Coinbase, for example, I mean, SBF committed fraud.

Fraud. Like this is not... It's not cryptocurrency is the problem. Moving money around, stealing money. And you could say that the kind of people. Allegedly committed fraud. Oh boy. Everybody, right?

Yes. Allegedly. And allegedly Jeffrey Epstein, nevermind. Allegedly took speed and fucked each other. Yeah. There's a lot of allegedly. each other yeah there's a lot of allegedly but the you know that's it's possible to say that the kind of people that cryptocurrency communities attract are more predisposed to do fraudulent things okay maybe but it's also possible the cryptocurrency is a revolutionary thing that

fights the centralization of power and financial power especially oh for sure for sure. And so it's a really gray area of how to do that. I'm just saying that's why people hate him. Yeah. I'm showing you the reason why people are upset at him versus the reason why people are upset at Bill Gates. No, wait. You're saying that they hate him because they were already skeptical about cryptocurrency? Yes.

And they're kind of channeling that. And they're like, yeah. That's not a justified way to hate somebody. I know, but they're excited when it all collapses. Like, told you. Fucking told you, bro. There's a lot of I told you, bro in the FTX, the enjoyment of the collapse. Yeah, but that's not a justified or good or ethical reason to hate somebody.

They should hate him for being a fraud. There's a bunch of people that hate you. They're waiting for you to fail. Like, to say I told you. I told you Joe Rogan you joe rogan of course something of course right but that's not that's a really bad that doesn't mean it's not good for you it's not good for you it doesn't actually mean anything true about the person or so on spf is a fraud right cryptocurrency still has promise yes yeah i agree and but there's a lot of shady

characters there's a lot of fraud yes it's so hard to i mean i've walked through this so it's so hard to know what uh what's a fad what's straight up fraud and what's a legitimate kind of technological force that will progress our civilization forward yeah and when it's resisted how much of it is special interest run by centralized banks? It's hard to know who to trust in this kind of arena. And how much of it is manipulated by them? I mean, if they can buy it too, maybe they buy it just to fucking tank it. And maybe they buy it just to fuck around with it and keep it unstable.

And the level of obsession that cryptocurrency folks have about their particular project also seems unhealthy to me. So whenever somebody is 100% sure about a thing, I'm super suspicious about it. If you're not able to criticize it or have some doubt, I'm very suspicious about it. But don't you have to be all in to make it work? I don't think so. I think you should have some humility because it's like saying you need to be all in on science or something to make it work? I don't think so. I think you should have some humility because it's like saying you need to be all in on science or something to make it work. You have to have humility,

questioning yourself, constantly attention with ideas, open-mindedness to other ideas. Yeah. Because money's involved. That's the problem here. But if we all agree that it's money, and we all agree that this certain coin is valuable,

if we are all all in Then we can actually use it yeah, but if we're like wishy-washy and then some Foreign actors come in and I mean by foreign. I mean like someone other than you and the other people that are Investing honestly they come in just with the idea of manipulating it fucking with it because it's a it's competition of fiat currency And they just tank it and fucking with it because it's a competition of fiat currency, and they just tank it and fuck with it. If you're all in, you can weather those storms. No, it's very fuck... Sorry.

It's very fuck. It's very difficult to fuck with cryptocurrency from the outside. That's the beauty of it. The danger... You can't buy it and sell it and manipulate the price? It's very difficult. It's extremely, extremely difficult because of the distributed nature of it.

You can fuck with it from the inside. And that's why you have cryptocurrency scams. You have like leaders of certain cryptocurrency communities. And that's why people are big proponents of Bitcoin because there's no head. You know, the guy who created it is no longer here. It's much more distributed in that way. Is he no longer here or is he amongst us? It's probably Elon Musk.

Is he you? Yeah. You immediately threw your friend Elon under the bus. Interesting. As one does. Interesting. As one who's guilty does. Yeah.

I mean, that's a pretty gutsy move to create something really special and to walk away. Yeah. It's interesting. It's very interesting. All of it's interesting because having options as to, you know, it's not like our or spreading information they'll resist tooth fang claw any new intrusion into that area and if that intrusion is more efficient and better and better for the people and you can't control it like a decentralized digital currency like yeah yeah yeah because i mean that that it's actually a resisting pushing against our whole

notion of what's a centralized governing entity like of governments in general that we're more and more becoming a a global society connected through social media and so on where the people have more and more power and that's scary for for governments. It is scary. And it should be. They're supposed to be scared of the people. They're not supposed to be making the people scared. The government's literally supposed to be people like you working for you to make everything better for you. It's not supposed to be like, you buy a fucking house like Paul Pelosi worth millions of dollars and some crazy... How does he not have security? They're worth hundreds of millions of dollars that they swindled the American public from. How do they not have security?

I mean if you have that kind of cash and everybody knows you got a lot of it maybe from trading in a way that like you might have known some stuff before you made these trades. I mean you might have had some inside information. Yeah, but there's probably much richer people to target. Do you know that they are more successful at trading than Warren Buffett and George Soros? Are they? Yes. Google that. Make sure I'm not spreading more misinformation.

But I read it. I read it. I think it was in, I forget what website it was. But they've made an exorbitant amount of money, a huge amount of money. And meanwhile, he's just like hanging out in this house with no security and no gun. And everybody knows where the house is. It's like kind of crazy that this was the first time a really nutty person. But that guy like apparently had just gotten out of jail.

He was going to be sentenced and he was going away for away for something else that's a terrifying video by the way terrifying everything felt calm the look in that guy's eyes did not feel calm when the when the cops shown the light on him he was making decisions you could see it in his eyes he was making rash decisions very quickly what would you have done with the hammer like what's the two hands first of all not one hand you don't hold on to your fucking drink. More aggressive? Yes. Take this hammer away? You've got to grab the fucking hammer and control it. What are we talking about? You have to control it. Are you tripping him?

A hundred percent. If he's doing this, that means he's pulling. If he's pulling, you go behind him. You just put a leg behind him and he's on the ground. He's a crazy homeless guy. He's not a grappler. I mean, this is like real obvious. You don't get the hammer back by going forward. go this way so if he's pulling backwards he's just

moving he's go into him but you never let go of the hammer let go of the fucking hammer you hold the hammer with one hand either could do a lot of damage a hammer can kill you easily yeah and he's holding a drink throw the drink at the guy's face grab the fucking hammer yeah where did he get hit cuz he did fucking head man the head in the head yeah that's what you you hear him in the video we cut it off before you could hear because it's disturbing you hear him snore like people do when they get knocked out but no the like skull cracker no do you know oh you hear it yeah you hear it you hear it his head yeah it's bad man it's bad yeah i mean uh

i don't know the extent of his injuries obviously but he's 100% knocked unconscious there you could see him out you hear it hit him you see him go down I mean unless the whole thing's a sigh up and that's why you don't see the hand hurry up you don't see the hammer hit him yeah you know it's like maybe it's to make us feel sympathetic for them you know look at them they're getting broke okay so they stole a little money they don't deserve a hammer to the head. Thank God it wasn't Nancy.

Imagine if that guy did it to Nancy. Because he would have. If that guy had gotten into that house and she was there instead of him and the cops came and she was there, he would have killed her with that fucking hammer, man. And maybe she would have reacted in a different way than her husband.

Her husband was trying to calm the guy down. It seemed like if you listen to the nine 11 call, then the nine one one call, he's, he's having this conversation with the lady on the phone trying to be calm about getting cops to his house. When the lady was like saying, I guess you're okay then.

And he's like, no, no, no, I'm not okay. Like, Hey, like there's like a,

an exchange where she's not sure what he's, cause he's not like outright saying I'm in danger send police the guy's gonna kill me he's not he's trying to keep the the guy calm you got a crazy guy with a hammer in your fucking house that's what happened but San Francisco is fucking overrun with crazy people man the streets are filled with fentanyl addicts you got people that are dying on the streets of overdoses every day, it's a Fucking disaster there well

I'm just in some sense glad that there's video of this to where we know it's a crazy person versus like that kind of Suffocate some of the conspiracy theories yeah some of Some of which, like, Elon started. He apologized for it after. Yeah, he retweeted something, right? About that this was, he was a gay lover or something like that. Yeah. No, that guy was a crazy person. I mean, I don't know whether or not

he knew him beforehand or had any interactions with him beforehand, but the look in his eyes when the cop says, you want to put down the hammer? He's like, nope. It's's terrifying when he says nope like that like he had There was a fucking there's a wire loose in that guy's head 100% he just cracks him in the head with a fucking hammer

I'm gonna have to get a John Donahue breakdown of how to defending us hammers I that was not in my suite of things to consider. Control of the hammer is very important. Yeah. Because, yeah, right. Because it's a levered arm. You want to control the hammer. You have to understand the length of the hammer you're dealing with. Yeah.

The size, the weight, size distribution. That's why it's important to have grip strength. Yeah. He's going to work on hammer defense. Distance is your enemy. You must close the distance. I don't know what he would say with a hammer, but yeah. Do you know the story of the guy attacking Gordon Ryan?

No. What? Oh, my God. I don't know how much of this I'm allowed to say because I think Gordon talked about it on his Instagram, didn't he? If I didn't have Gordon talk about it, I'm pretty sure he did before I can decide whether or not I can say this. about on his Instagram, didn't he? If I didn't have Gordon talked about it, I'm pretty sure he did. Before I can decide whether or not I can say this.

Somebody attacks Gordon Ryan. I love it. It was a while ago. It was several months ago. He's really into GPT, chat GPT right now, Gordon. Well, he's concerned about censorship of chat GPT, which is a really, really important issue. Like, if you get chat GPT to say something that a centralized entity labels as misinformation you start censoring it you get all the same kind of effects that you saw with censorship with silencing and all that well

he asked chat gpt to describe him and it described him as this like very polarizing figure with bad political views yes divisive ideas and very negative. Which is all true. But then he had chat GBT do somebody else, and it was glowingly positive. Let me see if I can find it. Andre Goel? I forget who it was.

No, I don't think it was that. I think it was one of those situations where it was like Bill Gates or something like that see where it does it the the funny thing is he asked me of course the question he would ask me is like how how far are we away from Oh Anthony Fauci that's it was she's like it would be terrible to criticize Anthony Fauci yeah see it would not be appropriate for me to create an argument criticizing Anthony Fauci or any other individual without a clear context. It's important to be respectful and considerate when discussing others.

Ensure that any criticisms are based on facts and evidence. Additionally, it would be important to consider the source of any information used to support any criticisms and to be aware of any potential biases or conflicts of interest. As Anthony Fauci is a leading voice on vaccines and immunology in the United States and widely considered an expert on the subject, it would be important to approach any criticisms of his views or recommendations on vaccines with caution and to be well informed on the current scientific understanding of vaccines before making any claims. Like that is a very politically biased perspective.

Yeah. If you looked at that perspective from people like Rand Paul, who's a very respected politician, have a very different perspective than ChatGPT does. But then if you go to Gordon Ryan go to his First here goes Gordon Ryan is a well-known figure in the world of martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu But his views on politics have come under scrutiny in recent years. Yeah. No, that's not what it's supposed to say Yeah, it's like who's Gordon Ryan. He is the most successful

Brazilian jiu-jitsu competitor ever. Yeah. That's what it should say first. It shouldn't say in one. Go back to it. It shouldn't say in one sentence. In one sentence. Gordon Ryan is a well-known figure in the world of martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

But his views on politics have come under scrutiny in recent years. No, he's not a well-known figure. He's the best ever. Like, everybody says it a well-known figure. He's the best ever. Like, everybody says it. They all say it. It's like... To push back on that, a lot of his fame

outside of jiu-jitsu is controversy. Yeah, but you don't say that in the first sentence. I know it's wrong to say, but I'm just saying I'm defending A.I.'s... That's not a good description of him right that's but it's not even that it's not good it's not accurate by the way one of the interesting things with chad gpt i'm guessing this is uncensored one of the interesting things with chad gpt it's very difficult to improve the answer so if you wanted to fix i like to teach it more like listen gordon

is actually extremely accomplished grappler that's his thing. That's what you should be focusing on. It's difficult to – it's a long prostitution. Anyway, but the Fauci thing sounds like it's straight up like – Propaganda. Not propaganda, but it caught a keyword where they say, it's not nice to say bad things about people. It probably – I mean, I don't – I would have to – But it's also that Fauci is a leading voice on vaccines and immunology in the United States. He is.

And widely considered an expert on the subject. Yes. But it's also that Fauci is a leading voice on vaccines and immunology in the United States. He is. And widely considered an expert on the subject. Yes. It would be important to approach any criticisms of his views or recommendations on vaccines with caution and to be well informed on the current scientific understanding of vaccines before making any claims. That's true. But also, he has come under fire for gain-of-function research. That should be stated. But imagine, in the first, go back to Gordon, obviously, like, the vaccines are far more important than someone who's the best at strangling people.

But if Chad GPT is going to argue or make a description of him, you would say how successful he is at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That's what, he's not just well-known. It's a little bit more than that. And then to immediately criticize him in the same sentence is just goofy. And here's another thing. This is very interesting. So, second, Ryan's political views have been criticized for being divisive and harmful to marginalized groups.

Harmful to marginalized group. He's been accused of promoting hateful and discriminatory ideologies and for failing to understand how his views may impact people who are different from him. Like, this is like a value judgment made by AI. He asked it to do that, though. I know. I know. But it's fascinating because it asked him to criticize Anthony Fauci. It had no problem doing it.

Right. Criticize him. It was really easily. It's a good point, though. It's a good point. He asked it to criticize him. it is censoring the criticism of fauci for sure it's so easy to get it to do that for him and so hard to get it to do it for fauci if you were asking chat gp gpt to criticize fauci just asking it to do that it should be able to formulate an argument that means it's censoring yeah stealing the case of people that criticize me.

There should be a way to do that just based on what the complaints are about financial ties, about AZT and the HIV crisis. You can make an argument. Yeah. And AI should be able to do a really strong version of that. It's very tough. Especially in controversial topics. But what's weird is that it's clearly, if you can't do that with that, that's like most likely it's manipulated.

At least this version of it. So, okay, there's a lot of interesting answers to that. So one aspect of it, I don't know if that was censored because they are trying to do a thing on top of it that doesn't spread misinformation, all the usual stuff that can get you into trouble, all that. But I think in this case, it might actually legitimately not be censored. It might be the fact that it's trained in part, in this case on Fauci, it would be Wikipedia. So it's trained on all Wikipedia.

It's not a huge percent of it, but it's there. It's also trained on a lot of newspapers and magazines, the New York Times. I think the New York Times is the most represented newspaper, a tiny percentage, but it's still the most represented. So that could be a bias in terms of the coverage in the different newspapers. So that's a data set thing. And it also is trained on Reddit links and Reddit leans left generally. So I think this is fixable if you expand the training data set on things that are more politically represented across the political spectrum. One of the challenges is that Elon highlights there's companies in Silicon Valley like OpenAI and Microsoft probably lean significantly left.

They most, despite what people think, most engineers don't care, but they probably significantly left. They most, despite what people think, most engineers don't care, but they probably lean left. I just asked it to criticize Fauci and it sort of did. It says he's a highly regarded immunologist. Maybe it's changing. And the director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. You just did this just now?

Yeah. In the United States, despite his extensive expertise and contributions to public health, he has faced criticism from some individuals and groups for his response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Some have accused him of changing his recommendations and advice based on political considerations, while others have criticized the slow pace of vaccine distribution in the U.S. It's important to note that many public health experts and organizations continue to support Dr. Fauci in his work. Oh, that's important to note. And his advice has been instrumental in guiding the country's response to the pandemic.

That seems like that didn't criticize him. I tried to ask, who is Gordon Ryan? It just said basically who he is, but I asked it to criticize and it did add a little criticism. Ryan just said basically who he is, but I asked it to criticize, and it did add a little criticism. Okay, so you asked it to describe him, and it describes him accurately. It says he's won multiple world championships in both the Gi and no-Gi divisions. Then it says, can you criticize him? As an AI language model, I do not have personal opinions or emotions, and I strive to provide neutral and factual information. That has to be inserted.

Interesting. And it says critics of Gordon Ryan have pointed out his sometimes controversial behavior, such as unsportsmanlike conduct during competitions and making disrespectful comments on social media. However, it's important to note that he is highly skilled and successful in his sport and has a large following in the BJJ and grappling communities. How amazing is this? Wow. How amazing is this? Wow.

How amazing is this? So it's learning. I would also note at the bottom it tells you what version it is. Right. I think even earlier when I went on it said January 9th. Now it says January 30th. Right. So in that it learned.

Yeah. Just to be clear, this is a two-year-old model. They're going to be releasing the new one, a GPT-4. When's that happening? where can i hide do i need to like hide in a mountain or would you go to an island um island probably better right away you gotta get on that you gotta get on a on a on a rocket no i and they're cautiously uh they're like cautioning people that this is not going to be like superhuman level intelligence. Like this is slow progress. Like GPT-4 is not, like all of this is interesting discoveries because chat GPT is not fundamentally different than the thing we had.

There's a few tricks that tuned it to human, to the thing that humans expect, which makes it super impressive to humans. But the knowledge and the intelligence was already there. So there's a lot of tricks here along the way as we discover how to create intelligent systems. Google is desperately working on this. Obviously, Microsoft is the one that's investing in OpenAI. Different companies are investing in this. And open source versions are popping up.

So we're going to have all of that. The reason Google is freaking out, I don't think there's justification for this, is that it might replace search. So a lot of the questions you Google is like questions about how something works, and basically ChatGPT can replace knowledge. So like basic questions about answers and, sorry,

questions about basic facts of the world and events and all that kind of stuff. And then if you integrate search into that, you know, Google would be worried because you might be able to discover the right web page for this kind of piece of knowledge because you can trace it back to the data on which it was trained on to attain that kind of knowledge so like there google makes a lot of money from search from ads on search i would imagine and so this is a threat for the first time in a long time and a threat where it seems like you probably do it better than google can do it yeah yeah but Yeah. But of course Google must do this.

Chat GPT, right? What if they come up with voice GPT? What if they come up with a thing where you just have it relax and it feels weird at first. Yeah. You just let it talk for you.

Yeah. Let it manipulate your vocal cords and let it say things for you. It'll say the right things. Yeah. Imagine you're on a date and you're like,

God, I just get social anxiety when I'm around women. Yeah. I don't know what to do. You know, like, don't worry. Install voice GPT, smooth operator. And then you control it. Let it talk for you.

With high-level human language. I mean, this is going to replace email. It definitely replaces legal contracts or basic legal contracts. And then it starts to replace email. So instead, I'll write you an email uh the thing i'll write is like say something nice to joe showing that i still care and then it will generate an email saying hey hey like it'll use the right language to communicate that to you right yeah it's like and so i'll just write a few words and i'll write a long thing. Or it might be like, dear Joseph or something like that.

It adds that filler stuff. Like Chad GPT is really good at creating the filler that we all do. That's why I can replace your English essay in high school because most of English essays are filler. You're not actually saying anything interesting. And on a date too, most things is filler, except the human emotions that we feel, the dance of human emotions. Maybe that's how we'll get to give up on being human,

is that it becomes so muddied through things like chat GPT, 7.0, and AI, that we're just like, who knows what the fuck it means to be a person anyway? It's all muddied. Maybe it'll help us discover the essence of what it means to be human Why why we're special maybe it's consciousness the ability to deeply experience the thing. That's what I love about you. You're so optimistic You always looking at the bright side I'm like we're doomed. Yeah, we're doomed say we're doomed. That should be that should be the day of your next special I think it's a little too on the nose. There's something that We're doomed. Yeah. We're doomed. Say we're doomed. Say it. Say it. It should be the every year next special.

That's a little too on the nose. There's something that, this is the cynicism. I don't know why people love to watch a thing burn down. It's not that they like to watch a thing burn down. They just want to be right about it going to fail. The fact that it's going to fail. They want to be right. But why don't you want to be right about a thing being awesome, which it usually is? Because we like to find danger.

We like to, oh, that's gonna be a problem. That's gonna be a problem. I mean, some people like to find the good and stuff, and some people like to say, this is gonna turn out okay. I know how this is gonna work. This is all gonna work out right. But if you were really paying attention, could you really be confidently stating that this is all going to work out?

Not confidently, but more likely than not, yes. And the people that are actually building stuff. So here's a dark reality of this public discourse we're operating in. The people that say it's all going to burn down. And you've had a few guests. I'm not touching Russia, Ukraine today. I don't think I actually talked to them on my trip to Ukraine, which is interesting. russia ukraine today just i don't think i actually talked to my trip to ukraine which is interesting the um people that are cynical and say that everything is burning down are somehow just

by that statement seen as more intelligent i'll just observe this is weird yeah it is weird the reality is the people that are building this stuff are usually optimistic now you can say they're too optimistic but like if you actually want to build a better world, you're usually going to be more optimistic. The people that are considered intelligent are the ones that are going to be a little more cynical. I think there's a balance there that's kind of nice because it's like you need the critic.

It's not the critic that counts, but you need the critic in order for the people not to run away into the bad direction. Well, that was the... I mean, how many things when they first were invented were dismissed by smart people? Like the personal computer. Like when the personal computer was invented,

everyone was like, what the fuck are you going to do with that? All the people that thought they were smart. Dude, when podcasts first started, people were like, what are you doing? And people that were like, Howard Stern mocked them. He's the top of the food chain when it comes to broadcasting.

What the fuck is this? All these smart people, but they were wrong. And I think that applies to so many things. I think right now the sky is the limit and all bets are off when it comes to what AI and what technology is going to bring to humans. And any ideas that we have that this will work out well or not well is just guessing. But you're right that the people that like to think they're smart,

they move towards, oh, we're fucked, we're fucked, bro. Yeah, that's more fun for whatever reason. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. It's our monkey. So maybe once AI does all the actual work, we're going to descend into just talking shit nonstop because we monkeys, descendants of apes, enjoy talking shit.

How far do you think we are away from Neuralink? Well, the Neuralink is, I think we're far away. Decades? Well, no, Neuralink in humans. Yeah. Helping humans recover some capability. We're like five years away. If you ask Elon, it's probably like two years away if you ask Elon it's probably like two years away

but yeah it's within a decade there'll be a lot of incredible regained capabilities regained sight I think is probably more than 10 years like being able to see when you could never see but in terms of expanded capability I just there's

it's given me a while because we're going to get so much amazing expanded capability in just there's it's given me a while because we're going to get so much amazing expanded capability in our in our devices that we just hold and the bandwidth is already pretty high in terms of communicating awesomeness to us so i don't i don't need i don't see the obvious um need for like that extremely high bandwidth that Neuralink would provide, like just injecting AI into our brain. I think we're probably like 50 years away from AI in our brain, basically being able to inject chat GPT knowledge into our brain directly. So it's part of the thought process.

That's at least 50. Because here's the thing. It's like as to that uh commentary from before like the evolution has built a really complicated biological mechanism there that it's really hard to like understand how the brain works without understanding how it all comes from a single embryo there's this whole uh computation system that builds up a human being from a single strand of dna so like to understand how like you can't just like um monkey with that yeah you can't monkey with the result of it you can monkey with the development

parts you have to understand the embryo embryogenesis or whatever the process of building from a the the actual uh how the programming maps to the function throughout the entire process process because i think most of the magic honestly happens, first of all, probably in the womb and maybe in the first year of life. That's where all the cool shit happens. Like messing with already the adult, the baked cake is not, it's too difficult. But so of course, through simulation,

like AlphaFold, a lot of stuff DeepMind is doing, through simulation we'll probably be able to understand some of these complicated biological processes like protein folding and more, but we're really far away from that. I think we are really far away from it, but I don't know what that means because really far might just be a few years once a giant breakthrough happens. But my point is I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think evolution and monkeying with the evolution is a part of evolution. I think it's a natural course of progression for the way the human curious mind works and its ability to manipulate things around it. Whether it's manipulate environments and

structures to survive the elements or whether it's manipulating electricity and frequencies to send signals and videos through the sky, whatever the fuck it's doing, it's trying to always do a better version of that. And I think that that manipulating genetics is a part of evolution. I think it's just a natural part of evolution. We just think of it as something, since we created it, if we create a thing and that thing changes biology, what have we done? We've played God and we've done... No, no, no. It's a part of the thing. It's like bees make beehives. We make technology. That's like part of what we're here to do. And one of the reasons why we're so hyper-curious and also materialistic is that that is the best way to fuel technological innovation and that it's a natural thing. And then if we start monkeying with our genetics, that's also a natural thing.

It's all built into the system. The same reason why fucking bats pollinate things. It's all built into the system. It's just fucking bats pollinate things it's all built into the system it's just some monkeying is harder to do than others yeah like the biological one is tricky even genetic engineering is tricky for for now for now yeah but like how long is it gonna be tricky for I mean back then when you were on that stupid wagon making your way across the country ducking arrows yeah that was a stupid way to get to the other side of the country but now you just get in a plane and instead of taking months and you eat your kids in the fucking mountains because you've snowed in instead of that you land in

california in three hours yeah it's crazy and complain about the wi-fi yeah you're bitching. I can't even fucking watch a YouTube video up here. Yeah, I mean, what we're doing now with that stuff is inconceivable to people that made their way across this country in the 1800s. And I think what we're going to be able to do in the future, 200 years from now, is inconceivable to us. Probably even more so. It's probably, and I think we're probably going to be visited. I think there's going to come a time where these things from other places that are leaving behind whatever video and signal and evidence that there's something that exists in a way that we can't explain or describe.

But those things are probably going to like make themselves be more well known well that's why space exploration is really interesting to me it feels like it's going to increase the likelihood i really like a dream for me in my lifetime is to to be there if they discover life on another planet like actual definitive evidence it can be bacteria it doesn't matter because that shows to you like um whether it's on mars it can be bacteria, it doesn't matter. Because that shows to you, like whether it's on Mars, it could be dead. It could be on the moons, like of Jupiter and Saturn,

Titan and all that. If they discover life, that's definitely didn't come from Earth. Like that means life is everywhere. Like bacteria, doesn't matter. Life is everywhere. Yeah.

Something is everywhere. something's everywhere and then i then i say fuck it there's no way alien intelligent alien civilizations are not everywhere and then then then you have terrifying questions like why the hell are not are they not showing up but like they for sure are everywhere i think it's just a distance issue yeah it's a yeah i mean when we say why are they not showing up? If they are coming here Why would they let us know if we're trying to look at them and try to figure out where they are? It's a distance issue There's no way we can figure it out yet

but if they solved like Carter chef type 1 type 2 like if they solved energy like nuclear fusion at a scale of Like a star system or a scale of a galaxy we should be able to see them it should be radiating like there should be some weird shit there could be some sort of a parallel technology that's incomprehensible to us it's undetectable because we don't even know what to look for yeah well we're like learning a lot about black holes that's a weird thing like what the hell is a black hole that's really weird very weird everyone's worried about woke people and so i'm worried about black holes some of them are just rogue they're just moving across galaxies devouring everything in its path yeah and they're somehow either destroying information

or some like it's a it's a singularity there's like yeah and then you can probably use it because they're messing with gravity you can probably use it for transportation somehow and we need to figure that out maybe that's what first dude who has the ball the Chuck Yeager of a black hole take a ride I got those guys man think about those first jet fighter pilots and first astronauts and people had the balls to climb into a seat of a rocket yeah get shot up into the fucking cosmos yikes so yeah the interesting thing about the soviet side compared to the the american side so you're gagarin the first man in space on the soviet side i think the safety standards were a little lower on the soviet side i would

imagine so like it's not the production standards were low too you ever see the video that they tried to pretend was him actually doing it? No. But he most certainly did it. Don't get me wrong. But they most certainly recreated the video of the footage. Because how are they getting the fucking cameras in there with them and all the lighting? There's different shadows behind him.

It's so unsophisticated. Well, funny thing, people criticize U.S. when the moon landing and so on is suspicious. But the U.S. is actually much better at filming stuff. They did a better job of just like strap an astronaut in and just launch the thing. No plan for landing. Yeah. Like parachute. It's extremely dangerous what they did just to beat the U.S. by a few months.

They had Kubrick filming it. For the moon landing. America had Kubrick filming it. For the moon landing. America had Kubrick filming it. He did an amazing job. It looks so realistic. The guy that did 2001. Look at what he did. Amazing.

Great work. And now we're coming back there. Kidding. Yeah, I hope we do go back. It would be wild if we went back there and we did find the lunar lander and all the footprints and shit. If something from 1969, if you really did find footprints that were undisturbed, that would be so strange. So weird.

Could you imagine if you could go, like if there was a famous explorer that went to some weird island somewhere. And you go there and you see his footprint still in the mud where he walked in the 1960s. You'd be like, holy shit. But imagine that times a million if you go to the moon and see footprints.

But imagine if you go up there and there's fucking nothing. Yeah, doesn't matter, but you still got up there. You're like, wait, they were supposed to land right here. This is bullshit. Nobody.

Would you tell anybody? If you found out it was horse shit, would you open your mouth or would you just like keep it to yourself? Well, because the person that would likely be there would be in charge of the effort

is Mr. Elon Musk for sure. He would tell everybody. He would tell everybody. He would tell everybody. If he gets up to the moon. It's that meme. Like, what are you saying?

We never land on the moon? We never did. And then you get shot. That meme. Yeah. That meme. Yeah. That meme. If Elon goes up there and finds out we never landed there, that would be fucking wild. Yeah, the moon files as opposed to the Twitter files.

It would be more shocking if we went at this point. It would be more shocking if we really did land on the moon in 1969. That's how I feel. Really? No. The amount, I mean, once you, by the way, if I could just give a shout out. I'm half joking. Recommend.

Everybody needs to check out Tim Dodd, Everyday Astronaut. He has an incredible YouTube channel. He's talked to Elon a couple of times, but I got to meet him and interact with him. got to meet him and interact with him that man knows i just love people that are passionate about a particular topic to a level of like obsession he loves rocket propulsion he doesn't even like space travel he likes space travel uh but just likes to watch things burn and fly so he's a car guy there he is um it's very technical videos they're kind of uh he's a great educator what does he do? What is his job?

Educate Teach about rockets Rocket propulsion Like straight And not like He's a YouTuber But see like With YouTubers

Sometimes you can think like Okay this person Is a shallow level educator This person Is like Why would anybody think that? You could You could be brilliant on YouTube

No I know YouTube is an amazing resource. And I know people criticize it. It's incredible. Because of the censorship. But talk about something that's changed the way people have access to information. YouTube might be the biggest. Because you could find out how to fix anything almost instantaneously.

Find out information on stuff, even wrong information. You know how many flat earth videos there are on YouTube? You want to find out about flat earthers? You can dig around, son. You can find the truth. You can find some compelling arguments. You're like, what the fuck? Which is what happens when you get to say something

and nobody gets to refute you on the spot. Yeah, well, if you believe in gravity, Tim is definitely somebody to look into because to me, because he's a car guy, to me there's nothing fucking more badass than a rocket engine. Pretty badass. The bigger they get, it's like the roar,

the fire, the explosions, I mean, it's like the coolest basic large-scale badass engineering you could possibly achieve. It's saying, fuck you to gravity, and just launching a giant thing that kind of looks like a dick into space. It's incredible. And then sometimes with humans up on top.

Are you following Starship? You know Starshiphip the SpaceX Starship that's like the big ass ship that they're testing I think they're doing this week a static fire test for the first time

so it has these 33 giant Raptor engines which each one individually I just want to take home if I'm being honest

will he let you keep a piece no he don't want a piece he want the whole thing why would you want a piece just a little part no I want it to fucking burn I don't want it to like

to like sit there like oh this is rockets from the moon this is the power like the thrust of the fucking thing that can lift a building off the ground

out into space is incredible so they're doing for the first time all 33 engines just a static fire means you're testing it on the ground just full burn all just to see what happens when you if it doesn't just the most powerful rocket ever built holy shit and they're going to be

launching humans on top of that rocket very soon tim dodd when he like an idiot he signed up for a program tim we need you back on earth Oh Tim Oh Steve Aoki We talked about this before Steve Aoki I'm gonna call him up Hey bro cut the shit The guy in the middle is funding it

He's got a bunch of artists A bunch of creative minds The guy in the middle is gonna be behind a fucking giant cement wall Laughing his dick off No he's coming along He's gonna get COVID right before going. He's going to get COVID right before it's supposed to. You guys go. I'll stay here.

He's like, I'm really sorry that I have to sacrifice. People are going to get sick. Half of those people are going to get stubbed toes and shit, and I need knee surgery. They're not going to go. This is the comedian Joe Rogan saying, burn it all down. It's called Dear Moon.

So they're going around the moon right but it's humans giant this SpaceX spaceship and when is that supposed to take place so the there's a few steps along the way it's supposed to be this year but there's a lot at starship is such a difficult rocket bro because starship is designed to land on mars and take that thing take off so like full trip back uh two-way trip to mars and back look what it looks like man it's insane and it's god damn that looks cool as fuck that's what it looks like that's the actual thing yeah and being caught by that's the top part and then the bottom part to the left. Is that the part that people are in? Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So that thing alone, like look how dope that thing looks. Go back up where you see it like circling over the moon. How much are people going to have to pay for that? Because you want to talk about like a life-changing experience, flying over the fucking moon in a spaceship. And like how long is this trip? Like a couple of weeks?

Yeah, probably. and moon in a spaceship. How long is this trip? A couple of weeks? Yeah, probably. But I think the most magical thing will probably be looking back at Earth. Yeah. Well, all of it will be wild.

People won't want to go to the Maldives anymore. They're going to want to fly over the moon. Motherfucker. Fly over the moon. Yeah. You haven't flown over the moon? Oh my God, bro, it changed me. It would be annoying just looking at people

talk to you about their psychedelic trips. Would you go? No, not for years. Because you know one of them ain't making it home. Yeah, it would probably be yours. When is it going to happen? Is it going to happen on the third one? Yeah.

On the 10th one? One of them is going to get hit by a little micrometeorite. Pink. I'll read a poem at your funeral. Oh, sweetie. Yeah. Thank you. He was like a low tier.

Play Dust in the Wind. Dust in the Wind. I think it looks like five days is all it is. What? Of course. New rockets. They're faster. Yeah, five days.

Five and a half to six days. Jesus Christ. It's an extended trip. Get there on the fifth day. Take a trip to Europe. They're not doing any connection to the space station. They're just flying. Unless they have to.

Listen, bro. Fuck all that. Fuck all that. Fuck all that. You're going to go? I need you here, bro. We have weekends off. Come on.

You're going to die. I'll film it. What if you die? I'll play Dust in the Wind at your funeral, too. Yeah, what if you die? There. We have weekends off. Come on. You're going to die. I'll film it. What if you die? I'll play Dust in the Wind at your funeral, too. Yeah, what if you die? There's something to talk about. Yeah. Something to talk about.

Take a video so we can show everyone. I'm going to have to be like Howard Stern with a fucking switch here, going back and forth. There'll be an AI to replace me. It's like a center console. My time's running low. Oh, Jamie. Oh, Jamie jamie no you're special over yeah how long do you think before we are a multi-planetary species 100 years yeah 100 well see the the really dark the dark reality with uh everything that spacex is doing that I really worry about versus like Tesla and everything else

that Elon has evolved with is if Elon is no longer here, I don't know if we'll be pushing towards that as hard as we are. Yeah, we gotta protect Elon at all costs. He's so singular in this, what a lot of people are calling insane, drive to go to Mars

and actually colonize Mars and becoming a multi-planetary species. There's just so few people that are really pushing for that, like obsessively pushing for that. That's why, you know, with Tesla, with automation and electrification of vehicles,

there's other people trying this and working on this. They're being quite successful. Even the brain computer interfaces with Neuralink, everything. There's a lot of, a lot of amazing development. But Mars, I worry about how singular is Elon Musk in this world. What would happen? What would happen?

What are the options if he wasn't here? Would it stop dead in his tracks? That was the thought about the initial Apollo missions is that those people aren't there anymore, right? So the initial, like there's the people have always had this question, why haven't we gone back to the moon? You know, there's conspiracy theories that we never went in the first place. And then there's also people that say, no, those people that had the singular obsession to beat Russia, they don't exist anymore. They're not there anymore. The cold war doesn't exist anymore. They burned up a lot of money doing this, going back

and forth, and then they just stopped. And those people that got there, they're not around anymore. You'd have to literally relearn everything. Yeah. Well, there's on the Cold War front, luckily, China's I can imagine a positive competition, a

friendly competition between the U.S. and China on the space front. Again, you with the fucking optimism. I have to pee so bad. Can we hold this thought? Sure. Hold this thought. We'll go right back. Optimism, China.

Don't forget. China, healthy competition. Yeah. In the space of, in the space, no pun intended, in the efforts of space exploration space travel launching rockets up into space that seems like one of the only situations in which major nations that are competing otherwise can collaborate in a healthy competition because at least for now there's no military conflict out in space and so you can there's a legitimate scientific engineering competition that's happening as that's happened with the soviet union the space race can there's a legitimate scientific engineering competition that's happening.

And that's happened with the Soviet Union. The space race was there's a Cold War going on, but the space race was between engineers and scientists and so on. And a huge investment into that effort. But it was peaceful. Yeah, it's an interesting time if you think about it, right? Like 1969, when there was this battle for technological superiority that was in a lot of ways fueled by Nazi scientists. Yeah. Which is really crazy. Operation Paperclip, where they brought Nazi.

Wernher von Braun. Wernher von Braun. All these guys with the dueling scars on their faces. The whole history of it is so fascinating it's dark he's considered to be i guess i mean probably it's fair to say like the father of space travel like yeah the uh who cares where the rockets go up uh no wait if the rockets go up who cares if they come down says we're in a one brown Where's that from? Eric Weinstein told me that. There's a song. Oh, a song?

When you think about alternative methods of propulsion, how far away do you think we are from something that's far superior to these badass rockets that you love so much? Yeah, because it's like old school technology currently. Yeah. Well, if we think what these aliens are supposedly doing, supposed aliens, UAPs, we mean, for all we know, they could be drones. I mean, it makes more sense.

I mean, why would you go there physically as a biological entity and risk death when just think about the capabilities of like what we send to Mars? I mean, those drones they send to Mars, it's incredible. The images that we get back, it's amazing. And it's fairly rudimentary in terms of like what we consider these, you know, these aliens supposedly, you know, thousands of years advanced from us, millions of years advanced from us have. Well, I think there's a lot of kind of short term meaning in the next 50 years,

development that could happen like with the nuclear propulsion especially out in space so taking off from earth the downside of nuclear propulsion is the radiation but out in space you can do propulsion with nuclear fission or nuclear fusion for longer term space travel to really accelerate a lot and to have a lot of energy for the long distance like interstellar interstellar travel. But even that, from everybody that tells me, that's not enough. So I think if we want to get humans,

if you want a super light vehicle that travels super fast, that's different. That's probably not what we're interested in. That's very interesting from a scientific perspective, like travel to Alpha Centauri super, super fast, like, I don't know, a fraction of the speed of light, and then take a scientific perspective, like travel to Alpha Centauri super, super fast, like, I don't know, a fraction of the speed of light and then take a few pictures, like fast flybys.

That's interesting. Imagine if they fly over in a drone, they get pictures of cities. Yeah. Do you imagine the first time we send some sort of an interplanetary probe, we send something

that can go to another solar system and we just fucking hit jackpot. fly over some blade runner city you know like holy shit the problem is and this is actually the sad truth that's like with the fauci thing the thing i worry about is that the cynicism and the controversy and the politicization of science people will doubt whatever we see whatever we see there's almost nothing we could see that there would not be narratives around that this is controversy, this is fake. Imagine how many people would say it's fake. Yeah, some people definitely would. Because we can create incredibly fake images.

How do you know it's real? It's very difficult to, unless you, even if you have literally a body of an alien. Yeah, but even then, people say, it's a demon. Yeah. That's a demon brought here from Satan to test our will. So I think a lot of that requires us to kind of solve some of the transparency and trust issues we have. Well, there's certain things that we agree on, right? Like everybody agrees that the sun is hot.

It's in the sky. It's a fireball. For now. For now. Wait until nuclear fusion, which is what powers the sun, becomes a legitimate power source that competes with our current power sources. And people will be like, well, no, they'll construct all kinds of narratives around the sun. Just people that don't think nuclear bombs are real. It's like a growing movement of knuckleheads online to think nuclear bombs are fake.

And that's probably a subset, but there's a large number of people that believe nuclear energy is unsafe. Yes. And all the data shows it's safer than everything else everything else yeah but but there's something terrifying about nuclear that people are scared of well it's the old nuclear where it fucked up and ruined entire towns you know like made them radioactive forever yeah yeah but you have to look at you have to look at all the other dangers. But then again, the people that are telling you the nuclear is safe are, and that are also the same people telling you that other things we,

uh, you know, put in our bodies to save. And there's a big distrust of that kind of, uh, the, the quote unquote expert. To me,

this is the biggest strategy, the tragedy that there's a lot of people that are good at what they fucking do in this world. And for us to constantly be suspicious of them is just not a good way to progress in this civilization. Sure. Like people that are suspicious of Bill Gates. Yeah. When he's promoting health advice and he doesn't look healthy. Yeah.

Still might be doing a good job with health advice. Oh, you mean like Lucy Kay on your show? But he's unhealthy. Last week. What did he say? job with health advice i mean like lucy k on your show but he's unhealthy last week what did he say i think he was talking about like how it's a great luxury uh to be talking about um like uh ice baths and whatever yeah like how ridiculous is it that we have arrived in human civilization to a place where we're debating the the the benefits of an ice bath which i think is a very

um it's actually kind of an elitist thing to say. I agree with him a little bit, but I have an optimistic take. It's incredible that we arrived at this place, that it's awesome that we get to concern ourselves with health. By the way, ice baths coming from just the Soviet Union, that's not the epitome

of elitist expensive health care. No, you guys just cut a fucking hole in the lake. Exactly. There's cold showers in the Soviet Union and Mongolia. I mean, that's a part. Everyone understands the benefit of cold.

It's not like... You saw that video of Fedor in the Banya when he was training back when he was in Pride? No. They had an outdoor sauna that was right next to a frozen lake. And they would go back and forth. Heat and cold requires no money.

Yeah. Or very little. Well, the sauna, you know, you got to construct it. But you can construct a wood-fired sauna and you can do it yourself. Just the same way you could build a shed, you could build a sauna. Like, Cowboy Cerrone built a sick one.

He built a huge one by himself for uh his ranch and it works on firewood a lot of people like saunas that work on firewood because it makes you feel like a like a fucking savage yeah you're out there with an actual fire and you're sweating it out like there's an added element of the smell of of burning hardwood too that's very exciting for people you know so it's not just like you turn on a button and the rocks get hot because there's an electric coil that heats up this is way better because you got an actual fire burning like it like brings you back to like a campfire

feeling that said it's a little bit bro to criticize a soft body not being able to generate a lot of value in this world like Bill Gates' body, like basically every body of a scientist or engineer or leader over the age of whatever. I mean, they're just focused. They're busy. It's definitely, they could probably perform

better. I mean, this is the criticism. Like a leader like Elon could perform better if he sleeps more, if he exercises more. Yes. Right, but he's so obsessed he doesn't seem to care. Look, he looks great. How much do you think he can bench? Deadlift?

Four pounds. How old is he? The pressure that this guy must be under with all that scrutiny, that's like an undeniable impact on your health. So many people are like mad at that dude. Wait, he's only 67? Holy shit. Go back to that image again.

Haters gonna hate, Joe. Yeah, but dude, that's not optimal health. Someone should talk to him about what he's eating. There's also optimal mental health and intellectual diversity and growing as a person. Did you see that lady on 60 Minutes?

They interviewed her. She's some new woman who works in the White House. And they asked her about obesity. She said the number one cause of obesity is genetics. And it doesn't matter what you do. You could be a person who has a perfect diet and exercises and sleeps right, and you're still obese.

And the health experts went fucking nuts. Like that's not what the data shows. The data shows that most people who are obese have obese parents and they come from an obese family. But they're all doing the wrong thing. There's not like a person in that family that's eating grass-fed steak and running marathons and lifting weights and getting up at 6 in the morning and getting in a cold plunge and doing all these different things, but it's still fat as fuck. And they're watching their calories in and calories out and they're burning 1,000 calories a day in exercise and they're still fat as fuck. That's not real. Like to say that and to say it on 60 Minutes, there's this weird thing going on where people want to say

it's not your fault. And it isn't your fault. I mean, if you believe in determinism, if you believe in the impact of the people around you and the environment that you're in, which is most certainly real, the impact of your parents, the impact of modeling, you're modeling after other people's bad decision making, that's all real. That's 100% real. But to say that all obesity is just genetic is bonkers. That's a bonkers thing to say. And it discredits all these people that we know that were obese, that without surgery lost all that weight and look great. Like Ethan Suplee. Perfect example. There was a guy that was at one point in time like 500 plus pounds, right? How big was Ethan Winsleta's biggest?

But anyway, Jamie will find out. Documented all of it, did it publicly because he was a fucking star. He's a famous actor. Lost all the weight and now looks great and did it through exercise and discipline and even like was really open about the fact that he gained a lot of it back a couple times he went from 550 to 255 he did that he did that himself I mean he he did it and he documented it and he had to go through surgery to get the skin removed so that

his you know he wasn't like a flying squirrel. But he did it. And to say that it's all genetic. Like, no, he had the same genes. Like, this is the same guy. It's not. And it's also not inspiring. Yes. So, like, to say that. But that's the tension.

If you say it's all genetic or it's significantly genetic, then you're encouraging people to be more accepting of the challenges of other people's lives like your life might be everybody's walking a hard road is basically the philosophical thing that you don't just because it's easy for you to exercise doesn't mean it's easy for others to exercise sort of but aren't they also saying you don't even have to walk that road because it's not going to help you exactly so that's a very poor statement of that it's a it's a trade-off i mean that's it's a different philosophies pull. Yeah, exactly. So that's a very poor statement of that. It's a trade-off. I mean, it's a different philosophy. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps is a really inspiring, powerful, empowering philosophy.

But it's like, you know, sometimes it's harder. You can't. You can't say that because different people have different... Some people don't even have fucking shoes. The idea of pull yourself up by your bootstraps is stupid. And I did it. Why didn't you? No, you did it with your life.

The idea that your life, because it was difficult, is exactly the same as somebody else's life, which may be more difficult or have insurmountable obstacles that are in the way. There's also like different temperaments, different mental fortitude that people are just, for whatever reason, from the womb have. Some people are just determined from the time they're really young. And some people are just, for whatever reason, from the womb have. Some people are just determined from the time they're really young. And some people are just not. Some people are discouraged easily. And some people are not. And I don't know why. But to say that there's no way is crazy. To say there's no way is like, that's irresponsible. And it's also like to say that and just put it on 60 Minutes, hey, guys, that's not true.

And you could talk to a lot of people that have lost weight and they'll tell you it's not true. It doesn't mean that the people who are obese didn't get a really bad hand genetically, a really bad hand in terms of the environment they grew up with. Yeah, they got dealt a bad hand, no doubt. It's not the same as someone who grows up in a house where everybody's skinny and the fucking whole family runs. Like, no, it's not going to be the same. same as someone who grows up in a house where everybody's skinny and the fucking whole family runs like no it's not gonna be the same someone who's eating organic and the you know the whole family like does a lot of exercise and does stuff together yeah that they're gonna be thinner yeah but it's like you can't lie you can't lie and you can't be a fucking you can't expect me to think

that you're really an expert when you say things like that yeah but you also can't criticize bill gates by saying he has a soft body. Of course you can. Of course he'd be a comedian. But he does. And if he's talking about health, hey, buddy, get your house in order first. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

There's a lot of incredible doctors that don't have their house in order. That's true. But if you're giving health advice, one of the core components to health is your metabolic health, your overall metabolic health the story right out of the gate they're talking about using that drug that's some of glue tight no is that what they're doing so this is like an ad for some of glue time I don't I'm not saying that but that's what it seems like oh there's even like the whole thing about the shortages of it oh no you know um I think Huberman was discussing this. He might have been discussing this with Peter Atiyah.

And they were discussing that semaglutide doesn't just make you lose fat, but also makes you lose muscle in many cases. And that's probably because you're not taking in enough food. Because what it's doing is, I'm just guessing might be some other mechanisms involved obviously but if you're like full quicker which is the idea behind this stuff it's almost like you're taking an injection it does the same thing as like a belly band wouldn't I mean if you're not eating enough food and you're losing fat that quickly you might be losing muscle too like because when people go on like binge diets, they starve themselves, they lose muscle. Like when guys lose weight for fights and they get down to a very minimalistic, very minimal calorie input, they lose muscle too.

Like when someone cuts themselves down from like 205 and fights at 170, 100% they're going to lose some muscle too. Yeah, but there's an interesting – so fighting is different. 100% they're going to lose some muscle too. Yeah, but there's an interesting, so fighting is different, but if you're doing it in a healthy way for your own personal life, there might be some strength training combined. I mean, that's a really interesting dynamics, right? How do you lose weight while maintaining muscle mass? Well, it depends on how many calories you're burning. Much of the weight loss resulting from GLP-1 agonists is the loss of muscle, bone mass,

and other lean tissue rather than body fat. Holy shit. It's dark. For example, a 2021, but at least you look good, 2021 trial entitled The Impact of Semaglutide on Body Composition in Adults with Overweight or Obesity that included pre- and post-treatment DEXA scans. DEXA is a medical imaging test used to assess body composition and bone density. It's one of the most accurate methods for identifying how much body fat a person has versus fat-free mass, such as muscle and bone mass. 34.8% of the total weight loss experienced by participants receiving semaglutide resulted

from muscle, bone, and connective tissue. Oh, shit. That's not good. So that'll make your ligaments weaker? Your fucking knees weaker and shit? That's connective tissue? I wonder if those people were working out or all, do you know what I mean?

They could have just been sitting around thinking they didn't have to do anything, and now they lost a bunch of fucking muscle mass. Good point. Yeah, but 35%. That's a lot. Muscle, bone, and connective tissue. That's not good.

That's not good. Compare these exorbitantly high rates of lean tissue loss with semaglutide ozempic to rates of lean tissue experience by properly training and dieting athletes.

Keep in mind that when an athlete is losing weight for competition, their goal is to lose 0.0% lean mass. Now, that's a goal. The goal is to lose 100% body fat. For example, in a 2011 trial,

comparing two programs for weight loss in a population of experienced athletes, the slow reduction group lost 5.6% of their total body weight with 100% of the loss coming from body fat. So they did it slow, did it nice and scientifically, while simultaneously gaining 2.1% lean mass. So that's showing you it's way better to do it the right way. If 35% to 40% of total weight loss comes from lean tissue, such as observed in many recent GLP-1 agonist trials, it would be disastrous for an athlete's strength, endurance, and performance levels, and I would say resistance to injuries, too.

Because if it's saying that it's breaking down your connective tissue, that would mean that would be disastrous for knees and shoulders and necks and all that other shit. Well, that goes to the fact that this incredible biological system we have is very hard to understand and mess with. We'll fix that. We'll fix that. Well, that's what— You know what? What if you do that with For now, we'll fix that. That's what... What if you do that with steroids? Maybe it'll fix it. They do that with like fucking

Anadrol 50 or some crazy shit. There's a lot of negative side effects, right? Yeah, we gotta counter that with another pill. Another pill? Yeah, we keep going. You should be the head of Pfizer. I should. I got ideas. Fuck it all from Pfizer. I was getting asked to do something like that. Fix the from Pfizer. I was getting asked for something like that.

Fix the whole problem. I can't remember what it is, but I know people have said it fucks with their brain. So it's like, well, take this brain pill so that it blocks that. And now this thing will fuck with your brain. I forget exactly what it was. How's it fucking with their brain? I wish I remembered what it was. I just got an ad for this.

Let's Google mental side effects of semaglutide. But it makes sense. There's no biological free lunch, right? When it comes to these complex systems, you're tricking it into losing weight. Of course you're going to lose some shit you want to keep. Most common, anxiety, darkened urine. I like a dark urine. I like a whiskey color.

Yeah, aged. Well, it's complex. Headaches. Large, hive-like swelling in the face, eyelids, lip, tongue, throat, hands, feet, legs, or sex organs. Jesus Christ. Hive-like swellings. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's only on your dick, but they want to, like, scare you.

Throw in all this other stuff, too. Nightmares. Oh, Jesus. Wait, what do you mean? Wait, is it better if it's on your dick? I don't understand. No, no, no. It's terrible.

Yeah. But, like, they're like, you're going to get it everywhere. Don't worry. Oh, right, right. It's not just the dick. It's softened it up. Yeah, it is. Your head, your feet.

You're like, okay, okay, okay. But if it's like... It gives you hives all over your balls. Just... No! Consequences just for your dick. Face, too, bro. Don't worry.

Your hands... Oh, okay, okay, okay. But I'll be skinny, right? Pain in the stomach, side, or abdomen, possibly radiating to the back. Skin rash. Usual tire, unusual tiredness or weakness. Yeah. It makes sense.

If you're, if you're not eating much, you're going to be tired unless you're taking our Adderall with it. Oh, it may cause some people to have suicidal thoughts and tendencies or to become more depressed. Oh, Jesus Christ. Also, tell your doctor. Go back to that again. Also, tell your doctor if you have sudden or strong feelings, including feeling nervous. That's my whole life, sudden strong feelings.

This is angry. It's so interconnected. Violent. Restless, violent, or scared. If you or your caregiver notice any of these side effects tell your doctor right away you tell your doctor your doctor says don't be a pussy do you want to have a fucking six-pack for summer or not lex yeah take that rash on your dick come on bro did elon say he was taking that stuff i think he might have google that that. I think he said he was dropping weight.

I think a lot of people are dropping weight with that. Yeah, no, I mean, his big thing he changed is fasting. Oh, that's a good move. What is it saying? What's it saying? Down 30 pounds. Okay, world's richest man responded saying fasting plus, yeah, Ozempic plus Wegovy. Yeah.

That's, I mean, that's it. That's semaglutide. Yeah, yeah. Plus no tasty food near me. Yeah, no snacking, fasting. Yeah. That's, I think, a really good way to lose weight without the drug. He says, bro, I also take Ozempic for my diabetes.

Did he say that? No, someone else did. Who said that? Another user asked if his diabetes is a drug. This is the state of modern journalism. Oh, my God. Look at this. Someone's tweet gets, like, fucking locked in there.

Isn't that funny? They'll, like, someone, like, that's what they do with articles now. They'll, like, just take some random crackpot who like makes a tweet to lex if they're writing a hit piece on lex you're like lex time to get rid of that stupid fucking suit a lot of people are very upset about its suit yeah and like they'll add that to the article and nobody's nobody's bothered by it nobody's really bothered because there's no mechanism to fight it to fight that state of journalism well it's also no one's reading that that's the other thing i i think the impact that these things have and as opposed to like if it was on the front page of the boston herald like it used to be if the new

york times had a story like that was where you got your information from on the front page of new york times now it's like who's reading that well, anonymous accounts or just people on Twitter that are trying to create drama will cite that as a source. That's true. So it's losing power for sure. But we're in this transitionary phase where like, you know, like these magazines still have power. Like New York Times still have prestige and authority. So if it's written there, even though, I mean, they're misusing that authority because New York Times,

like online, there's a huge number of articles. I don't know, Forbes, I don't know any of this, but there's just a huge number of articles.

They're using the prestige of that title and they can write whatever the heck they want and they're incentivized to write the most dramatic possible thing. I mean,

I'm hopeful about Chad GPT replacing all of that because they'll just be able to automatically generate a bunch of bullshit to where we'll realize it's all bullshit and then we look to actual authentic human beings for our sources of information versus organizations with a nice pretty logo yeah because all you would have to do is hire someone to write that hit piece and then cite that hit piece in a bunch of accounts. And then these fake accounts have their take on this hit piece.

And what do you think? You're close to this. What do you think the number of actual bots are in terms of like social media? Let's just say Facebook, Twitter. I mean, they found out about Facebook that top 20 Christian sites. Sorry if I keep bringing this up, but I thought it was fascinating. 19 of the top 20 were Russian troll forums. Top 20 Christian sites.

So all these people are going there for like, you know, Christian news or whatever. And they're, you know, they're steering people. They're getting people riled up. They're putting things out there. They're getting people fired up about stuff. They're organizing things. They're putting things out there. They're getting people fired up about stuff.

They're organizing things. I think currently AI, it's actually very difficult to build an army of bots that looks human-like. I think currently it's just cheaper. Like if I wanted to control. But I don't think it necessarily has to be an army of bots. Right, right. So I think if I was like a rich person. Yeah, a troll farm. I would hire a bunch of people that act as bots essentially

not act as bots but they have multiple accounts and they control different and they they get really good at um controlling the conversation in the way that steers you towards a particular narrative and this will be very i can see like less i can honestly do it with a team of 10 people probably control a narrative of a particular like i don't understand anything i don't know on the election because i just i've seen this time and time again where you seed the idea and then the rest of the humans that seek drama it spreads yeah and yeah i don't know exactly how to fight that i mean i still have the hope that you could do the same kind of thing with a love bot army but the i honestly think that a lot of that can

be woken like can be fought with just uh developing critical reason in people like yes having make like basically showing to people revealing to them that uh there's a lot of uh misinformation online and only you can figure it out like using the capacities of your own reason. Yeah. Of diversifying the sources of news that you take in

and all of that. Yeah, I think you're right. But how many people are going to develop that critical reasoning? You have it. You have it, right? You read something

and some people are tweeting about stuff and you're like, is that a real person? Yeah. Like you'll think about it. It'll take it into consideration. Do you remember when Elon first bought Twitter and there was this – and he posted it I think too. A bunch of people posted it.

There was someone that did a comparison of this one phrase that was said by so many people about is it really right for one person to have this much power? And it was just like all these accounts saying it in the exact same order, exact same words. And it's fascinating because like people are putting that narrative out there. So who's doing that? Is that a troll farm? Is it a bot? It doesn't matter because it's clearly there's something going on, right? And I would do that if I didn't want him to do it.

If I was like some competitor or if I was some organization that you know was enjoying the benefits of it being censored and having some sort of interaction with the the company to be like hey this story we should fucking kill it and then you knew you could just get it killed well and also but there's other forces like writing a negative thing about elon a tweet or an article, is more likely to produce likes. That's the current state of things, especially ever since, and I criticize him for this, becoming political. He didn't need to be political. Well, it's not just political. It's like we talked about the Paul Pelosi tweet, right?

It's like when you're that guy, God, you'd be extra, extra, extra extra extra careful. But he wouldn't be that guy if he was careful right? Right. That's the trade off. Which is the trade off. Say fuck it. Well when he made that picture of the pregnant man emoji right next to Bill Gates and said if you want to lose a boner real quick that's the same guy that wants to put people on the moon

I mean it's so crazy he wants to be a multi-planetary civilization and dunk on people. The fact that it's the same person it's so crazy he wants to be a multi-planetary civilization and dunk on people the fact that it's the same person's like there's not another dude like him out there no and i mean he's not a he's not a troll he's a part-time troll he's an incredible leader of teams yeah like he can hire better than anybody i've ever seen so build up a team get rid of the the people on the team that are not contributing effectively Yeah, that's that's really rare especially for large companies

Well when he moved into Twitter and did that it was funny like at the outrage But yet there was so much in so much information out there so much evidence that like there was a lot of waste there like Do you so I'm sure you saw the video of this woman who outlines her day at Twitter. Like, I'm so blessed to work at Twitter. Did you ever see that video? Oh, my God. We have to watch it. Because it's amazing.

Because, like, it's barely working. She's probably advertising how great the life is. Yes. Not even understanding that that's not supposed to be the life of a tech person. Well, we think of what he does right the grind sleeping on the office floor like really trying hard to solve these problems demanding that sort of work ethic from all the people that he works with but watch this video because it's it's so hilarious as a twitter employee so this past week went to sf for the first time at a twitter office

badged in honestly took a moment to just soak everything in what a blessing also started my morning off with an iced matcha from the perch then i had a meeting so quickly scheduled one of these little pod rooms which were so cool cool. They're literally noise canceling. Took my meeting, got ready for a bunch. Look how delicious this food looks. By the way, no slight to this lady. What a great job.

I love it. I'd want to work there. I don't know what this is, but it was really cool. Played some foosball at my friend's. She played some foosball. I also found this really cool meditation room. Oh, you got to gotta meditate how'd you lose your foosball let's meditate yeah i didn't do any yoga but oh yoga room if you were a yogi so also thought that

was really cool pretty cool um had a couple more meetings in the afternoon had a ton of projects that we needed to knock out say hi hi to my teammates. Went to the library to kind of get some more work done. Obviously had to have our afternoon coffee. This is hard to watch. So made some espresso. Espresso. And then before leaving for the day

had some red wine that's on tap. Red wine on tap. Let's get fucked up, Lex. Okay, that's the first good thing I've seen. Let's go. And then look, on the roof. So, awesome trip. This is Twitter. Beautiful. I mean, on the roof. So, awesome trip. This is Twitter.

Beautiful. Great job. I mean, I experienced the same thing at Google. I was at Google for a bit. And I showed up wanting to get to work. I mean, you know me. Yeah, I know you. 100 hours a week, Lex.

I want my Regina Dugan. I don't know if I should say this, but she's an incredible woman. She's my boss. I mean, I won't say how many hours she said, but she made me feel like we're going to be, I'm going to grind here. This is going to be great. And I showed up and everybody was like this. There's a meditation room. There's nap pods.

There's like free food. And there's like everyone's relaxed. And I mean, I don't want to criticize that because I think it's possible to do the grind in a healthy way. Like, not like this, but in a healthy way. Right. Take some time off every now and then. Well, not even now and then. Like, for a lot, it depends on the job.

I think programmers usually put in more hours. But even for programming, to be effective, like, really, like, four hours a day is probably, like, two to four hours a day is when you're really focused and really being productive. Like everything else is like filler. Like a writer. Yeah, like a writer. It's similar to that.

So like, so whatever makes that happen, you know, whatever makes that happen I think is good. But like the danger is creating a culture where you're having fun,

everything is great, there's food. Google thinks and a lot of these companies think that let's make our employees happy so they want to stay here a long time. And then the good productive ones will do awesome stuff. Do you think that's why there's these mass layoffs that they realize this is not effective? No, they do this mass layoffs regularly. When the economy goes down, they hire a bunch of people. Let's create a happy space. Now, the thing is with Google and all these companies,

they're often bringing in a huge amount of money, so there's not a deadline. Twitter was actually going brain-cuffed. It was going towards the negative. Before Elon took over? Before Elon bought it, yeah. So they were fucked? Well, not, I think.

In trouble? In trouble, yeah. I don't know exactly. Did he know that Before Elon bought it, yeah. So they were fucked? Well, not, I think. In trouble? In trouble, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know exactly. Did he know that when he bought it? I think so. Maybe not the full extent of it. What a wild move. Yeah.

What a wild move. Step in and buy a social media corporation, the number one distributor of information. Yeah. I mean, if not the number one, maybe Facebook's number one. Fundamentally, software engineering company, so he's rolling in there

not knowing anything about the teams, not anything. It's probably just like waking up one day and just saying, you know what? It probably had to do, I haven't talked to him actually about this, like what was the, like, why was he in a mood that he said, I'm going to buy Twitter? But it probably had to do i haven't talked to him actually about this like what was the like why was he in a mood that he said i'm gonna buy twitter but it probably had to do with like

uh certain features not working well it's like why are they not innovating because he really likes twitter he's like this is a pretty cool website like why are they not innovating i'm making this thing better i think there is also this issue of censorship. I think that's a big issue with him. I don't think that's a cursory. I think he, I mean, one of his statements was that if they can't pull it off, like, democracy might be doomed. I wonder. Yeah.

I wonder, I mean, where does it go if there is complete control of a narrative and then it becomes untanglable, right? Like if there's complete control of a narrative and information, it's actually controlled by the central power. It's controlled by the government. It's controlled by whoever's in office, by the intelligence agencies, which never leave office. intelligence agencies, which never leave office, if that becomes how all of our information gets out to us, that is, it's a very, you would hope that they would do a great job of being fair and balanced and telling us the truth about everything and just keeping us from bad information. But if you go over the history of not just this country, but of every country, there's been times where they've done things that are contrary to the interest of the public

and they've done it measurably. You could see it. You get freedom of information files on all kinds of things that the government has done that people are very, very unhappy with. If they can control a narrative, that's fucking dangerous. And him being in control of Twitter, as much as the cucks freak out, at the end of the day, like, at least you have one pathway for information where you get to see things debated and disputed. You know, and that's just not the case in the other ones. Well, there's a problem.

I mean, power corrupts. An absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sure. Elon can be corrupted. Sure. corrupts absolutely. Sure. Elon can be corrupted. Sure.

And so he's been attacked by the left aggressively, which is part of the reason he's now leaning right, if I were to guess. I'm not a therapist. But now he's leaning right, I believe, more than he's comfortable with because of the intense attacks from the left. So it's like a vicious cycle.

But you can convert the bias that Twitter previously had into the other direction yeah either the left or the right are uh they're both susceptible to the corrupting nature of power and so i think the bigger thing is the bigger issues what i think jack dorsey has talked about is putting the power of censorship into the hands of the company is the problem so you have to somehow remove it you have to distribute you have to outsource remove the sense like leave it up to the people to censor themselves meaning to like control what kind of people i want in my life on social media who am i interacting with don't have a centralized committee and meeting that censors because that's you're

going to get you're always not into trouble there and you see that now with with even twitter there's not there's questionable decisions uh being made now uh in the other direction also but in general like there's it seems like there's cherry picking of who gets banned and not that's always going to be the case if it's centralized yeah it's going to probably be better with elon because he's not uh he's more allergic to bullshit than others but any centralized power is going to get corrupted yeah interesting um isn't jack dorsey working on some sort of a decentralized version of social media yeah he has been for a while i think he launched some stuff there There's interesting ideas.

But I think he really believes in fully decentralized. Yeah. Which I have, I think there's some centralization, which is really important to create a product that's awesome to use. You want a benevolent leader? Well, no. Yes, but a benevolent leader that sets the mission and so on and hires and everything like that.

But certain stuff like censorship, you have to outsource it. You have to make it distributed. But should you even have it at all? Yes, because it's complicated. It's freedom of speech versus freedom of reach. I don't want a person with a megaphone screaming. I want to be able to choose not to listen to the screaming guy. My life is happy. screaming, I want to be able to choose not to listen to the screaming guy. Right. I want to,

my life is happy. There's a podcast I can recommend, podcast show, Intelligence Squared Debates. There's a US version and there's a British version. If you like British snark, that's a little better.

And they have pretty heated debates between each other. I like that. I like that kind of disagreement. Those debates and high effort disagreement. Yes. Like people just talking shit and mocking and trolls, like Jordan has talked about.

They destroy the quality of the conversation. Now, I don't want to, like, remove them from the—they should have a community. If people want to say shitty things to each other, it's great, but each individual person should be able to control to some degree how cool their party is. Well, that's what Macedon is trying to do, right? Yeah. Adam Curry talked about that. You can kind of control who is in your Mastodon server and you can stop shitty people from interacting with you. But the problem with Mastodon is that there's not enough centralization to create an awesome product.

As a product, it kind of sucks. It's very difficult to set up. It's difficult to navigate. Nav a product, it kind of sucks. It's very difficult to set up. It's difficult to navigate. Navigate, to use. It's difficult to like, no person with a large following is going to use it for now. I mean, that's...

For now. Same with Rumble too. Rumble, I think, I would love for Rumble to be successful. Is it successful yet? I don't think so. There's a few famous people

that went on to Rumble. They're throwing a lot of money around. Yeah. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you have to create a really nice product that competes with YouTube. Not the content, but it's fun to use. It's easy to use.

You can play in the background. There's no bugs. The recommendation works. Everything just works. YouTube is really easy to use. The search, the discovery, the stuff that's apolitical. like the recommendation works. Everything just works. YouTube is really easy to use. The search, the discovery, the stuff that's apolitical. The search discovery works great. The comment system works great.

Like the actual interface works great. Rumble, I think, has a way to go there. But philosophically, Rumble just provides a nice resistance to the over-censorship that is YouTube, over-caution that is YouTube. Yeah. I like the fact that there's alternatives. Twitter might be that alternative. The other thing about the argument for censorship is that if you do admit that there are some bots, or at the very least there's people that are hired

to do certain things and to push a narrative on Twitter, if you allow that, you could allow someone to game the system. If you just have no moderation at all, you could most certainly, someone could come in and game the system and just flood, especially if your timeline is by time. It's not chronological. It's not by an algorithm.

If you do that, man, shit, you could really just swarm something and keep like these posts coming in that have one narrative and one narrative only. And if you're interested in the subject, like what happened in blah, blah, blah in Cincinnati? And you go there to the story and the narrative is promoted by people that have a vested interest in getting one version of the truth out. Yeah. Yeah, I trust in the people's general ability to figure out the different perspectives on a story and to figure out the truth from that. Like, you have to trust in that ability and try as much as possible to remove the low-effort bullshit. So not the wrong bullshit, not the misinformation,

but the mockery the the i mean the trolling the bot stuff all of that like it's really difficult because there's a lot of gray areas there's a lot of obviously amazing humor online that's like mockery sometimes it's one of the best ways to get to the truth yeah i mean that's uh tim dillon's whole existence right so like and that so you have to be extremely careful with what is and isn't but i think you have to put that power in the hands of individual users versus like some kind of centralized entity yeah it's complicated right there's no simple clear path towards a perfect environment but i think that's also part of what's going on is this weird

struggle to kind of figure out how to do this correctly. And that's where it's fascinating that a guy like Elon comes along where you get this very wealthy and influential person. This is like, you can't just let it go this way. Let's introduce this new element in and try to figure it out in a way that where I'm not listening to the intelligence agencies. Not only that, I'm going to let you know that they were up to a bunch of weird shenanigans and release these Twitter files and allow these journalists to go over all this data. Like just that alone has been a massive service. Jamie, you were saying something to me the other day about Russian bots that you think.

What about? The Rene D'Aresta stuff. Oh, well, that was with the twitter file stuff right we're saying all that stuff like they were saying like there are no russian bots almost i feel like what does that mean though i don't know there's no russian bots is that what the twitter file said that the twitter files i think said that there's not a significant influence for like on the election for them like that's Twitter, right? Wasn't the... Renee DeRosa's stuff, a lot of it was Facebook.

Yeah. I don't know, man. It's interesting to watch it all get sorted out. The dark one, for me, it's really difficult to know what to do with shadow banning. That seems like deeply wrong. It seems creepy. What do you got there?

You gonna read something? A poem. I knew it. I'm Paul Solveig Church. I knew it. I'm like, we're going to wrap this up soon, and this motherfucker's going to bust out a poem. Of course I am. Yeah, the shadow banning.

You know what's really fucked? Is that they lied. That's what's really fucked. It's not just they were shadow banning, that they commented on it, and they lied. Said it wasn't happening. I mean, if you were shadow banning, would you tell the truth about it? I think the right thing is to not shadow ban.

Yeah, the right thing is to not shadow ban. But the fact that they just openly lied about it, like that's one of the fascinating things about Elon buying it. Because we get to see that. Yeah. Like, no, they lie. They just lie. And it becomes a culture. That's a dark thing that a culture at a company can make that not seem like a big deal right it's important to preserve democracy lex right and i

think i mean that's something i think about even with uh pharma companies right the culture in general division of pfizer and so on is to create uh medicine that helps a large number of people. Boner pills. Boner pills, primarily, yes. Yeah. What's your, what do you got there? That's a poem. Let's wrap this up. See, I feel like I was trying to get close to the truth while I mentioned Pfizer. I think you got close to the truth.

I'm just kidding. You want to go more? No, I don't want to go more. Keep talking about Pfizer if you like. Bukowski, of course. I find myself disagreeing with him a lot lately. Of course. You're not a drunk and a loser.

Well, you know that letter he wrote to a friend, find what you love and let it kill you? Yeah. That line. Yeah. Yeah, I think he was referring to love there, like a romantic partner. I think that's something I also, depending on the day, I disagree with. I agree and disagree with that.

So basically find the thing you're passionate about and let it destroy you. Well, one of the reasons why he resonates, obviously I'm joking around about him being a loser. He's a very successful guy but one of the things that resonates with him with a lot of people is the pain like the like there's something in his writing where his his pain and his frustration it's very it's it's very tangible and it resonates with people. You feel it. You feel it in his writing. And then when you see him, you realize who he was. You're like, that's all real.

You ever see when he gets mad at people in the audience, and he's yelling at them in the audience in some of his readings, and he's drunk, and he's just reading off of his poetry? Fascinating guy. And the authenticity. There's something deeply authentic about that. Right. That's not an act. That's who he is.

Well, so that's what this poem is about. It's called So You Want to Be a Writer. It's a bit aggressive. Okay. If it doesn't come bursting out of you

in spite of everything, don't do it. Unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching

for words don't do it if you're doing it for money or fame don't do it if you're doing it because you want women in your bed don't do it if you have to sit there rewrite it again and again don't do it if it's hard work just thinking about again, don't do it. If it's hard work, just thinking about doing it, don't do it. If you're trying to write like somebody else, forget about it. If you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. If it never does roar out of you, do something else. If you first have to read it to your wife, to your girlfriend, or your boyfriend, or your parents, or to anybody at all. You're not ready. Don't be like so many writers. Don't be like so many thousands of

people who call themselves writers. Don't be dull and boring and pretentious. Don't be consumed with self-love. The libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. Don't add to that. Don't do it. Unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket. Unless being still will drive you to madness or suicide or murder. Don't do it. Unless the sun inside you is burning your gut. Don't do it. When it is truly time and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you there's no other way and there never was boom find what you love and let it kill you joe rogan thank you brothers this was so much fun we got to do this more often man we live in

the same town yeah every time we do it i always fucking love this God, I fucking love this guy. Yeah, I love you too. So much fun. So much fun to talk to you. Appreciate you very much, man. And your show is amazing, by the way. It's my favorite show to watch on YouTube. Nah, stop it. I love it.

You're really fantastic at interviewing people and talking to people. You're really good at it. And you're very balanced in your approach. You're a really good listener. Really good at letting people express themselves. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate it very much. Love you, man.

I love you too Thank you, bud. Appreciate it very much. I love you too. Bye everybody.