The Joe Rogan Experience - #1956 - Luke Combs

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Luke Combs is a singer/songwriter and the 2022 Country Music Association Awards Entertainer of the Year. His new album, "Gettin' Old," is available everywhere music on March 24. www.lukecombs.com

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day cheers sir thank you cheers pleasure to meet you yeah and likewise man i love your shit dude thanks man appreciate that you got a great voice and great songwriting i try my best i really great shit solid country yeah i try man i really do you know you never know a lot of a lot of uh i don't know you know i guess you always have doubts i mean that comes with you know at least i do you know constantly like is this good enough or is it country enough or is it i don't know it's just always i'd be lying if i said i didn't have i think that's what makes you great i think you have to have those doubts i mean you're you have to i think every artist is always like self-analyzing and always

you have to be you have to i mean or else you're just you know my biggest fear is like making the same record a hundred times, you know? Yeah, because we all know people who've done that before. And when you're a fan of someone and they do that. That's one of the things I love about Sturgill is like every album, it's like he's a new artist. It's like, who are you? Yeah, everything's way different with him, man. I remember Turtles All The Way Down coming out and I was like, man, this is just such a departure from the last thing.

Yeah. And that can be scary as an artist, too, because you're like, well, all my fans that I have were the fan of this previous thing, right? Yeah. So there's the new thing, Alien 8. Those people, it's just tough, man. It's weird. I think people have to do that, though, if that's what you feel. I think they go along with you, especially today.

I think people are more willing than ever to let people take chances. No doubt. And, I mean, I think that comes with the artist now has the power in a lot of ways, right, with the rise of the Internet. Yes. in a lot of ways, right? With the rise of the internet. Yes. I mean, I think I was really kind of one of the first people who was able to bring something to, like when I got my first deal, it was like, well, I already had a built-in fan base.

And that wasn't really ever happening at that time. Like, as I was on this social media app called Vine, do you remember that? Yeah. And it was like, I mean mean i wasn't like you know mega big on there or anything but i had enough enough fans i guess where i was selling music that and i didn't realize that that was weird until i got to nashville and they're like wait you're selling how much and i'm like oh i thought that was that's low right and they're like not really it's not really that low at all and i was was like, oh, that's cool, you know. So then you got some negotiating power, too.

Were you one of the first artists in the country scene that kind of made it off of social media? Yeah. I would say me and Kane Brown, probably, were like the first two. And we both got signed at Sony. And I think that's to credit to, you know, I mean, Randy Goodman, who still runs Sony Nashville, has always been forward thinking in that. Like, at least before, in my opinion, all the other labels in Nashville were thinking about that stuff. He was always thinking about what's the next thing or like, how do we stay ahead of the trend or whatever? And other labels weren't doing that at that time.

And when you first started doing it on vine we just doing it because it was just a thing that you could put your shit on i mean you obviously didn't think that it would take off the way it did it just made sense right it was like it was like okay well this is a tool and all i was doing on there was i mean the content on that app was six seconds long right it was like it was like tiktok but six Right. And so it was like you would have to pick out what's the most impactful section of a George Strait song or of a Waylon Jennings song or anything I can sing or something that's on the radio, a Lee Bryce song or whatever it was. And go, what's the singing-est-ass part of this song? And I would get on there and just sing that six seconds of on my guitar and then put it on there and people were sharing and sharing and then when I put my own music out I'm like well obviously I'm

gonna market to these people that are already like my voice and stuff and it just worked out that was it was never a master plan right you know I wasn't like i would love to say man i had this big scheme and i had it all planned out it just like it was this all these like logical steps that just made sense to me i think it's kind of better that it's not a master plan that just just followed your instincts yeah it was i always tell i mean there is so much luck involved no I mean, anybody that has success, obviously you have to be able to sing and you have to have songs that people like, right? Those things are, you know, that's a given, but there's a lot of people that I know in town that I would argue are a lot more talented than me. Singers, songwriters that went for the artist thing and it was just it wasn't the right time or their music

didn't connect at that time with whatever the mainstream kind of fan base was yeah and now they're just they'll just they're just songwriters instead because now they're they might be 40 something you know and they're like well i don't want to i'm not going to get a deal and go on a radio tour i got three kids you know make you know half a million dollars a year writing songs right yeah but that would suck yeah that would listen to somebody else belting out your hits yeah but there's also a contingency of guys that like like i have some friends that went the route like they had the deal they had the songs it wasn't the right time. But then the artist thing just wasn't for them either. Like going around and doing PR stuff, like that gave them anxiety. Having fans, that gave them anxiety.

And that's like I think there's people that lean more into they would rather just do the creative stuff and hope. Okay, I hope I can write I Hope You Dance for Leigh-Anne Womanne Womack instead of being Leanne Womack and singing I Hope You Dance. Yeah, well, that I get. I mean, some people just, they don't have the personality for it. They don't enjoy it. They're more introspective. They're more, you know, introverted. Yeah, I get it.

It's a weird world, right? get it it's a weird world right the world of uh taking your thoughts and putting them down and then sharing with people and then you know like i mean what is it like for you when you're like at a red light and you hear some dude playing your music next year has that ever happened to you yeah it's it's even crazier like uh like the place that always gets me is like on like when someone's listening to it on a boat to me that's the ultimate test of a song it's like if somebody's listening on a boat dude they love you they absolutely love your shit if they listen to you on a boat that's so true you know what i mean right i mean how many artists that you listen to in your car you probably wouldn't listen to on a boat it's a different thing right like to me it's

like if it's summer the weather's nice the drinks are flowing you know and dude your songs on the boat that's the soundtrack to like the best time that someone could possibly be having that's so true you know that's so true you're the highlight of their weekend or their summer That song is like a huge part of their life If they're playing it on a boat I never thought of it like that But that's true like boat music It's a different breed dude It's the ultimate

It's crazy man My 14 year old she loves Kanye West And she likes to crank Kanye West On the boat and i'm always like okay you're like just cool yeah i hope nobody gets mad yeah it's like forget about what he said these are bangers is it like new kanye or is it old kanye she likes all of it all of it yeah huh i like the i love old stuff. I can't say I'm jamming the, the ye stuff or I can't say I'm just, to me, the choruses, his choruses in the beginning were just.

Incredible. Incredible, dude. Yeah. You know, incredible. Yeah. I'm very curious to see what he comes up with now after all this cancellation shit. It's crazy, man. I bet he's going to come up with some fucking bangers.

Is he like missing or something? Was that a thing? He's kind of like laid in bed. There was some photos of him with some lady the other day that he's out and about smiling. So he's confirmed? I mean, he's around. I don't know what he's up to. Because he lives like in the middle of nowhere or something now, right?

He's got a place in Wyoming. Okay. Yeah, he's got a ranch in Wyoming. Man, that must be nice. Fuck yeah. That'd be cool. Yeah. I'd love to have one of those.

A ranch in Wyoming. Everybody who saw Yellowstone was like, God damn it. I want to live like that. They're like, Montana's too expensive, so I'm going to Wyoming. Yeah. Yeah, Montana's overrun by yuppies. Yeah. I love Montana, though.

God, it's fucking beautiful. Is that where Ronella lives? Yes. I just went to by yuppies. Yeah. I love Montana, though. God, it's fucking beautiful. Where Ronella lives? Yes. I just went to Banff last week for the first time. Have you ever been there? No. Dude, it's like even more Montana, Montana. Really?

How could it be? It's hard to explain, man. I mean, it's just so, so like like we had me and my wife flew into calgary because the closest you can get is calgary even flying private the closest you can get so it's atlanta in another country no it's they're both in canada they're both in canada so you go calgary and it's an hour and a half drive to banff but it is like the sickest drive. Like 20 minutes out of Calgary, it turns into like the most Rocky Mountain thing you've ever seen. Really? And it's just, I mean, it's out of control, man.

I mean, I had never seen anything like it. We stayed in this hotel that was like built in 1889. Whoa. Up there. I'm like, it's hard for me to get there now. Right. What was it like in 1889 to try to get there? What's it made out of?

Is it made out of logs? It's stone. Whoa. Yeah. So I'm like, how do you even get there? There's a railway that goes through there. But I imagine like, yes, it's called the Fairmont. Wow.

Yep. Wow. Look at that fucking place. Look at that view. Holy shit It was wild, dude What a beautiful place Yeah

That's from 1889 Yep, 1889 How did they even get there? I don't know Like, we're talking pre-automobile Yeah, so I grew up in Asheville And I always think about the Biltmore House Have you ever been to the Biltmore House?

I've been to Asheville I've never, I don't know if I've seen the Biltmore House Pull up the Biltmore House This place is staggering, dude I mean mean it is like you can't even so if you sit on to kind of sits on this hill right so the vanderbilts built it so it was the largest yeah largest in asheville holy shit so if you stand on top of that building they owned everything you can see from the top of that building which is like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of acres wow i mean it is unbelievable

it was the largest residence private residence in the united states for a long long long long time um they have the chess set in there that napoleon's heart was put on after he died just crazy they cut his heart off and put it on a chest set? But that's the kind of stuff they have in that house, dude. Is there still a bloodstain? I don't know. I can't attest to that. I can't attest.

But I used to go. I mean, I've been in that place four or five times. I mean, and it's just staggering. Do you stay there? Can you stay there? No, you can't stay there. It's tours. Oh, wow.

But they have a hotel on property, but it's not, you don't stay in there. They had a swimming pool, bowling alleys. I mean, it was like decked out, the biggest mansion you've ever seen, but it was built in. I can't attest to the date that that one was built in, but 1800s, no doubt. Wow. I wonder why they built such a big place in Asheville. You know, I don't know. So they have, they built a whole town around it, right? It's called Biltmore Village.

And I actually sang in a choir at the All Souls Cathedral there in high school, which was built by the Vanderbilts as well. And so it's like super old. It's an Episcopalian church. Wow. Look at that fucking place. Dude, it is- Oh my God.

It's, I mean, everything's marble, dude. I mean, it's. Can you imagine living there in the 1800s? What that was like? Wow. Staggering. Again, pre-automobile. These people are riding horses to this house.

Yeah. Dude, they imported. And someone's definitely going to fact check me on this. But I believe they imported everything from overseas on this whole place. The marble, the stone. Wow. Look at the ceiling in that place. Yeah.

That's incredible. Wow. 250 rooms, dude, in that place. Jesus Christ. What a fucking place. Some people just have too much money. That's too much money. Yeah. You should. If you're ever in Asheville, you got to go tour that place, man. It's unbelievable. what a fucking place some people just have too much money that's too much money yeah they you

should you should if you're ever in asheville you got to go toward that place man it's unbelievable my bunny duncan grew up in asheville and he lived there before he moved back here to austin but uh he uh he grew up there and they used to uh give the cows like a special anti-fungal feed because they were growing mushrooms so much that all these kids are going out to the fields. Sounds very Asheville. And it's funny, growing up in Asheville, like I heard about that. Like I heard it would be like, oh, if you go under the cow patties, man, there's mushrooms under there.

Yeah. And I always was like, man, that's a total lie. But it's not. No, apparently those spores are just in the hills. He said like on any given day you go out there and there's mushrooms everywhere that's wild yeah there were so many that again they were giving these cows some sort of feed to discourage the mushrooms from growing in their shit i believe it that sounds seems like a crime against humanity why the fuck would you do that well it's like why

mess with it right yeah just let the kids pick them. Yeah. Let them do what they're going to do. No one's dying from mushrooms. Yeah. Let them do what they're going to do. Yeah. I'm in agreeance with that.

Also, it's awesome. Yes. Yeah. Asheville's a special place. It's a very interesting place. It is. Yeah. I moved there.

Me and my parents moved there when I was eight from Charlotte. I was born in Charlotte. I moved there. Me and my parents moved there when I was eight from Charlotte. I was born in Charlotte and moved there. And we lived there. I mean, I went to Appalachian state university, which is an hour and a half away from Asheville. My parents actually just moved, um, two months ago to Nashville. Cause we had, you know, I just had my first son and so they wanted to be close to the grandkid and it was wild. That was like, they didn't want to, they wanted to move, but they were really torn because they've loved that. We've been, they've been in that same house since I was eight, you know. And so it was tough.

I mean, we still have the house at the moment and stuff. We're trying to figure out like if we want to keep it or, you know, sell it. I don't know. It's tough, you know. Yeah. It's hard when you have roots in a place. Yeah. My dad, you know, my dad's 69 and his two best friends live in, in Asheville and, you know, they drank beer every Friday and for 25 years, you know, and it's like,

he moved to Nashville and it's like, he doesn't know anybody, you know? And it's like, so I think he struggles with that a lot, which I, you know, it's tough he doesn't know anybody you know and it's like so i think he struggles with that a lot which i you know it's tough for me too because i don't want him to like not be living his best life either you know what i mean it's like i love that he's close to you know my son and my son's close with his grandparents but i also want them to like enjoy their enjoy their life too right tell his friends to move i know right that's what That's what you got to do. Yeah. Get them to move to Nashville. All right. All right.

Yeah. You just got to talk everybody into moving. Get that mass exodus going. Yeah. Dude, Nashville's like, it's a hot, hot market. It is. Well, it's like in Austin. It's like Austin in a lot of ways where the pandemic opened it up.

A lot of people are like, I'm getting the fuck out of wherever I am. It sucks. And I'm going to go out of wherever I am. It sucks. And I'm going to go somewhere that's a little freer. Yeah. That's a little less stringent. Yeah. Nashville's a good place, man. But it is.

It's a great place. It's changed a lot. Even since I've been there, I don't want to act like I've been there, you know, 30 years, you know, because I'm probably considered a new Nashvillian myself. How long? So I moved there in 2014, so nine years.

So not that long. Yeah, I think you need like 10 years. Yeah, you need 10 years. Before you can start talking shit. Before you can be like, yes, it's changed. Yeah, we ran into this guy the other day that was talking about Austin. He's like, man, Austin's just not the same. And Tony goes, how long you been here?

And the guy goes, five years. He goes, shut the fuck up. He goes, bitch, you just got here. I'm that guy. I'm that Nashville guy. I'm like, yeah, it used to just be so, so different. People love to say things like that, though. They do.

It makes them feel like, I feel like it's almost like if you're saying that, you're taking ownership that that's your home now. Right. Right? Like, whether you've been there five years or 50 years yeah when you say things like that it it really shows that you feel some sort of ownership to that place and maybe that's the place that you want to be or you feel like is home so maybe it's a good thing you know yeah it's a pride thing it's it's better than like shitting on it yeah it's

like you just wanted to stay good but you, you know, things change and they evolve. And it's not that it's not as good. It's just different. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine, you know, some of the guys that, you know, I love listening to that, you know, were in Nashville in the 60s and 70s. Like, what would they think of it now? Is the scene in Nashville, the music scene, hollywoodized in any way or is it still gritty like what is it what's like the there's like two sects of it right like there's there is

still a very like gritty scene and there always has been right so you've got uh you know you've got like black keys type kind of thing you you know, going on in East Nashville. Like there's so many bands that have come out of East Nashville that are not part of kind of the mainstream Nashville thing. And that community still really exists. And a lot of, I think, artists, country artists that people love that would kind of even two or three years ago have been considered like Americana like that I'm not even sure what that means right like to me that's just like country music that you know there's all these people on the internet they're like well it ain't you know Luke Combs he ain't a real country singer you know what I mean because he's not you know what I mean

because he's not Sturgill Simpson or whatever it is. Right. Like there's always these people who are trying to discredit you. But there's these definitely these two different sects of like mainstream and non mainstream that exist in Nashville. those things separately and sometimes when popularity on the not chasing that goes through the roof then it kind of can transition into the major labels are like well maybe you know we should sniff around this guy you know and I I was always I I didn't move to Nashville to like be necessarily be like I'm gonna be a country artist I just wanted to do music for a living in any way. Right. Like I worked, you know, a bunch of jobs in high school and college. And, and I, you know, I went to college for five years, didn't graduate, which I'm sure my parents loved, you know, I was 21 hours away from getting my degree. And I was like, I'm going to do music, you know, and it was whatever that was sweeping floors in a studio would have been great to me

because I would be around music. I'd be trying to write music, publishing. I mean, realistically, I thought to myself, especially at the time I moved to town, it's like, dude, everybody that was doing music when I moved to town, it was hot, dude, six, five dude six five abs dude i mean i had didn't have a chance bro you know i didn't have a chance and so i'm going well cool i'll just write songs for these handsome cats and like it'll be whatever dude i'll be fine with me you know um but i just i really like again back to the luck thing man like i stumbled into it at the right time i think think Chris Stapleton singing Tennessee Whiskey with Justin Timberlake at the CMAs was an earth shattering moment for country music. And that opened the door up for guys like myself to pursue a career like somebody who didn't look like every other guy in town. And everyone knew about Chris Stapleton in town.

That guy was a legend in town. Had been there for 12 13 14 something years at that time he had 250 cuts as a songwriter when that performance happened wow so it wasn't it was just no one gave him a chance because he was a husky guy with a beard yeah and god damn that voice oh man he's unbelievable that national anthem at the super bowl dude no it was amazing. It's that and Whitney Houston, two best national anthems ever, in my opinion, at the Super Bowl ever. He's got some fucking bangers, that guy. I was sitting in a box with Adele at the Super Bowl, and he sang that thing.

And she was watching, and like two lines in, she just goes, holy shit. Like she just was, holy shit. Like she just was losing her mind. See if you can play that. Can you find that? It was unbelievable, man. Let's listen to it. I mean, he's unbelievable. He's a good dude, too.

I had him on a couple years back. He's fun to hang with. He's a very, very genuine person. He's quiet. Yeah. It's always nice when you meet someone that you really admire and they're just cool as fuck.

Oh, is this it? To honor America with the performance of the national anthem, eight-time Grammy Award winner Chris Stapleton. When Nick Sirianni cries in this thing,

I felt like a bald eagle was going to fly over the stadium dude it was the most american thing i've ever seen in my entire life look at him oh By the dawn's early light Oh, so proudly we hailed At the twilight's last gleaming Whose broad stripes and bright stars

Through the perilous fight O'er the ramparts we watched Oh, God, he's unreal. Was so gallantly streaming Oh, God, he's unreal. Wow. That got me, dude. Woo. Woo. That got me, dude. Woo! Woo! Does that star-spangled banner yet wave Woo!

Dude! Woo! For the land of the free And the home of a brave man God dang. Wow. That was electric, dude. I can't even explain to you what being there in person was like for that.

Wow. It was unbelievable, man. Woo. But I remember when Sirianni came on on the big jumbo screen in there with the tears coming down i was like this is like this has never be a moment like this again like i'll never be present for a moment like that again and like felt the gravity of it in the moment too it wasn't just like when you saw it on tv it was cool you know it was like they were showing that same feed in the stadium and it was that like even more i'd never been to the super

bowl before so it was like i was already soaking it in you know right there's already something about a big event like that but to have him sing it like that man yeah it was it was unreal man it really was that guy's an incredible generational talent. Yeah. No doubt. I mean, just no doubt about it. No, he's incredible. That's pretty fucking badass.

When did you first think that you wanted to do music? I mean, it honestly wasn't until I was, so I'm 33. It was when I was 22, probably. Yeah? It was when I was 22, probably. Yeah. It was when I was really like, I could do this. And it was. Did you enjoy it before? You just, I guess, a hobby?

Yeah. It was beyond a hobby for me, but I didn't even realize that, you know? So in sixth grade, right? So I'll paint the kind of how these things happen. It's like in sixth grade, the first year of middle school, right? What they did in my middle school was it was like these six week grading periods. And so in the first year of middle school, they made you take every elective. So you would take gym class for six weeks and chorus for six weeks and band for six weeks. Actually, I think you got

to choose chorus or band, but you had to do one music and then you took art and band for six weeks. Actually, I think you got to choose chorus or band, but you had to do one music. And then you took art and you took home ec. And so at, and during that sixth grade year, you try out every elective they have in the school. And then seventh grade, you pick what elective you want to take for like, so you get one elective per semester. So you can have two electives in your seventh grade year so there was an option for chorus that was a one semester of chorus or you could try out for like the advanced course which would be both semesters so i liked chorus a lot and so i was like well i'll do the one semester chorus and then i'll do gym or whatever you know because like i like it

but i don't want to take it that serious right so i do my first semester i'm in chorus and then I'll do gym or whatever, you know, cause like I like it, but I don't want to take it that serious. Right. So I do my first semester in chorus and my teacher, Ms. Rayburn, she comes up to me like last week of school and she's like, will you please change your elective and be an advanced chorus with me? And I was like, yeah, I mean, if you really want me to, like, I liked it a lot. And I was like, man, I wish I could do that in gym or whatever, you know? And so I did, I switched it. And so from seventh grade until I graduated high school, I was in chorus class every day of school for six years, you know? And then I got to high school, I get to high school, my chorus teacher, Ms. Bryant was like, I mean, she was like my mom at school. She was like my school mom. Me and her became super tight. I mean, I was her teacher assistant my senior year. I was in her class.

A fourth of my entire high school career was spent in her classroom. And I was in every musical every year. So after school for half the year, I was doing the musical and I just, I just liked it. And I, I didn't realize I was even any good until like ninth grade when Ms. Bryant was like, Hey, you're like, you're, you're like good. You're really good. And I was like, Oh, cool. That's nice. You know? And cause I like doing this. That's fun. And I remember I was transitioning to go to college and she said i asked her i said hey should i do music in college you know and i remember her telling me don't do music in college if you can see yourself doing anything else so if you can imagine yourself doing anything else

other than music you shouldn't pursue music in college so in my brain i'm thinking okay well i only thought the only option was to be a music teacher in my head. I'm going, well, that's the only option is to be a music teacher. And I don't want to be a music teacher. Cause I'm really bad. Like I can't read music. I like, I'm like, I can't do math. Like I have some sort of like, I just can't. So you can't read music wow not at all and like i like it's like probably some sort of form of like dyslexia probably to the truest extent like barely past math have you tried to read music yeah oh yeah what happens i was in um so her

so her husband was actually the band teacher. He taught advanced placement music theory, which was a new class my senior year. I took that class and got like a D because it was like all these, the kids that were the best at band and the best at chorus were who was in that class. Only like eight students in the class. And all it is was advanced. Like, here's the notes. Here's this. here's the notes, here's this. I tried out for Allstate Chorus three years in high school and didn't make it because you had to be able to read. You had to do a sight singing audition, which is where they would hand you a piece of sheet music and you had to sing it just by reading the notes on there. So it was a combination of what your voice sounded like and your ability to keep up with the Allstate choir teacher,

whoever that was picked out to be. And I never made it because I couldn't read the music. I just couldn't do it. I don't know why. Did you get coaching on it? Yeah, I mean, I tried. I mean, I busted to try to do it. It's just something about it doesn't make sense to me, like to my brain.

Like, I get it. Like, if I sit there and like plink it out really really slow i mean i could figure it out right but it just doesn't it's just such to me it's such an instinctual thing you know and so i was in an acapella group my freshman year of college for a year um i enjoyed that again, it was just like an after school kind of activity thing with other people in college, you know, excuse to have people to drink with, really, you know, people with common ground or whatever. And gave that up my beginning of my sophomore year, really. And then didn't do music. I I played rugby I got into playing rugby in college I did

that loved that and I was just the guy that would like sing at parties or whatever like my buddies that played rugby with knew I sang they'd be like dude sing for these chicks or whatever you know it was kind of like I was like party trick guy you know and then after my junior year I moved home to Asheville and I we I'd always moved home every summer up to that point. And then my mom goes, because I was sulking because all my buddies that year, they all stayed in their college town for the summer. I was the only guy that moved back. So all my friends are gone. They're in Raleigh.

They're in Charlotte. They're in Chapel Hill. They're in Boone. They're in, you know, Colloway and all these different schools. So I'm working at the same job I had when I was 16 at a go-kart place with a bunch of high school kids. I'm 21 years old. I got nobody to hang out with. I'm living in my parents' house. I'm not doing well in school. I don't know what I want to do with my life at all. And I'm sitting on the porch. I remember sitting on my parents' carport, and it was like my mom come out. And she was like, what's wrong with you?

I'm an only child too. So she's like, what's going on? And I was like, I don't know, Mom. I don't have any friends here. I'm working at fucking go-karts. What am I doing? And she's like, well, you know what, Luke? Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw

they didn't even learn to play guitar till they were 21 years old and I was 21 right and so my parents had bought me a guitar in seventh grade that I never played I did two guitar lessons and hated it because my parents wanted me to do it you know what I mean like anything your parents want you to do you don't want to do really and so I went in the closet and I got this old like an Ibanez like $50 acoustic guitar you know just horrendous condition but I didn't know that didn't know anything about guitar didn't know what a good guitar was didn't know nice guitars even existed so I taught myself all summer I just sat on the porch when I wasn't at work playing, playing, playing. Cause I knew I loved to sing and I was like, well, I'll just learn how to play. And then I can sing at like

parties for my buddies or whatever and taught myself all year. And then just kind of became obsessed with like learning how to play. And by the time I was 22, I'm back in school. I'm in Boone hanging out with my buddies. I'm starting to dabble around with like writing my own songs Because I was like well I could You know this would be cool I like this And then I wrote my first two or three songs And I booked a gig down the street

Just like at this bar my rugby team always hung out at Because I figured that guy would you know He was like the coke head like wild card Like he'd give me a show or whatever you know The guy was awesome you know I was like this guy will give me a show If I want to do a show so I borrowed my neighbor's guitar because mine wasn't even acoustic electric it was just a straight up acoustic and sat on a stool my other buddy let me borrow his PA speakers and 200 of my friends came out and paid a dollar to see me I made 200 bucks

that night that was more than I made at both my jobs that week. And I was hooked, man. I was like, dude, this is awesome. Like I love doing this. First off. Yeah. I'm like, I love doing this anyways. And I'm having a great time. I'm like having drinks with my friends. Everybody's psyched to see me here and stuff. And I was like, it just made sense, man. It wasn't't it wasn't one ounce of hard work in my mind after that point it was just always fun man and i always loved it wow so it's like a door opened up you walk through it yep and your life changed forever it just made sense dude yeah it was like a true like aha moment right like you hear about those from people oh i think i'm gonna flip the top yeah and you hear about those things but. Oh, I think I'm gonna flip the top. Yeah

And you hear about those things but it truly was that it was truly an aha moment And and it was life is a life-changing man. I don't know what I'd be doing if I hadn't done that That's so awesome. I love those kind of stories. I Really do. I love those stories because it gives other people hope to like, yeah I guarantee there's someone listening out there. That's in that same state that you were in when you were 21. They're like, what the fuck am I doing? And everybody has that feeling. I feel like most people, right?

Like most people. And you graduate college. I think about myself at, you know, if I graduated on time, 22, I didn't even graduate. But if I would have graduated on time, I'd have been 22 years old. graduated on time 22 I didn't even graduate but if I would have graduated on time I've been 22 years old and at 22 it's like I just by the hair of my chin figured out what I was gonna do and that's got to be kind of abnormal right even like you go to college and it's like okay I'm a business major right and then I get out and then I realize I hate business because I'm only 22 years old and I don't know anything really yeah all I know is like getting drunk and like smoking weed and stuff, you know, hanging out and going to class.

Well, for most people, too, you're looking for something that you could do where you can survive. You're just looking for a living. Yeah. You know, and if you can find something that's not a living, but is a passion, something that you really enjoy, you're already way ahead of the game. I always think to myself, man, don't make a living, is a passion something that you really enjoy you're already way ahead of the game i always think to myself man don't make a living make a life right it's like and that's i wish i would have known that at the time yeah but now you can't know it you're too young yeah and people tell you those things and it doesn't yeah it just doesn't register no it's like when we were having this kid it's like people people tell you, well, you're going to think this and this and this, and I've heard it all.

And it's all true, Joe. Every single bit of it is true. But it's like you don't believe it until it happens, you know? Yeah. You just can't. Like, you have to experience it. Yeah. When my friends who don't have kids ask me, I'm like, I can't even tell you.

There's nothing I can tell you. It'll change everything about who you are. It does, man. It's definitely like an earth-shattering thing. But it's – and there's never that right time, right? There always could be an excuse to be like, well, we'll wait a couple years until we're this. And then you get there and it's like, well, we need to get a bigger place. And by that time, you're 40 or something.

By that time, it's hard to get pregnant. Yeah, if you're set up in the bunker that you want to have with $10 million in the bank, you might be 50-something years old at that time. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's the theory behind population collapse is that people start getting into their careers, and women want to have children older, and they want to have less children. I didn't even realize that was a thing until Musk started talking about it.

Well, Japan is apparently in dire straits because the way it works is you always have to look 18 to 20 years out from now. And when people are looking at life now, you're like, oh, there's so many people. There's no population collapse. Right. But when no one is having kids and you realize when these people die, that's it. Yeah. Because the mainstream belief is that the world's overpopulated. Right. Essentially, that's what I always remembered here and growing up is there was too many people. Well, there's the real problem is not too many people. Well, the real problem is not too many people. The real problem is lack of economic opportunity and these places where people are starving and poor.

Those are the people that ironically are having the most children. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah, it's nuts, man. I mean, I remember thinking like my grandmother, she's one of 12 or 14, right? And then my other, my dad's dad, he was one of, I mean, 10, right? And it's like my dad's best friend, born in Ohio, he's one of a ton. But it's like they all grew up on farms. So it's like you're having essentially the kids are

had to like help with the farm right like that was the idea at that time for those people it's like well if i got more kids i got more people to help yeah you're raising a staff right it's which is wild and that's just not happening you know and not that obviously that's the reason no one should be having children to have people to work at their home, you know. But it was a necessity at that time. Yeah. It's always fascinating to me the roots of the kind of music that you enjoy, country music. Because country is so ingrained in struggle and life and hardship and heartbreak.

And, you know, it's such a, that music resonates with people. Yeah. You know, there's a thing about, you know, that kind of life that comes through in that music that's so appealing to people. Yeah, I remember, you know, I mean, I think back to, you know, my, my grandfather's favorite artist was Chet Atkins. And when he passed away in 2015, the thing that he, you know, gave me was every Chet Atkins record ever on vinyl. And I remember thinking like, what a cool thing, right? Like he loved that guy so much i mean one of the best guitar players ever

not to mention but he loved that guy so much that he bought every say and i'm talking it's those guys were putting fucking records out dude back then i mean they might put out two albums a year wow i mean go look how many merle hagg records there are, or Waylon Jennings records. There's a bunch, dude. Willie Nelson records. There's 90 Willie Nelson records? It's really? It's 60 or 90. Wow.

So either way, it's not a low number, right? That's so crazy. Because those guys, they just lived in the studio, man. And they wrote, and they cut their buddy songs that they loved, and it was quick it was quick because it was all one take we're going with the band get a take we like to take done print it now it's go in do the thing record the songs get every part right comp the vocals comp the guitar parts comp the drums like it could take days and days and weeks to get one song right now because everything has to be perfect in everyone's mind. And I think that's the uniqueness of Stapleton. He goes in and cuts records with a band and they cut it live to tape and that's why it's different.

Yeah, it's interesting what resonates, too. I'm a big Colter Wall fan. Sleeping on the blacktop. Oh, my God, he's the shit. I play that song, Kate McKinnon, and I tell people, this guy was 21 when he sang that. And people are like, what the fuck? He sounds like a cowboy from 1860 singing that thing.

A dude who's been smoking four packs of camels a day. Canadian guy, right? Yeah. I believe. Yeah. Have you had him on? No, man. He doesn't do interviews.

Really? Yeah, he works on a ranch. That's super cool. Dude, that guy's so much cooler than me. Damn it. That guy's so much cooler than me. I've been trying to get him on for like a year and a half, two years. He's like, he just doesn't do interviews.

He's just a musician. He's just an artist. He's pure in the strangest way. I just love to hang with him. I just want to meet him. I just want to tell him, hey, man, even if you don't want to do an interview, let's just talk. I just want to see what you're all about. If he works on a ranch, dude, he hunts, right?

I guarantee you. You would think so. Maybe that's the pitch. Yeah. I mean, there's so many people from Canada that hunt, too. Yeah. It's a different world up there. It really is, man.

It's wild up there. It's a wild place up there. How did you meet Rinella? Okay, so I'm Rinella a stand, dude. I'm a Rinella stand. Meat eater. I've been watching it for years, man. And it's just like i've

and you probably feel the same way man like there's a lot of like machismo bravado stuff in like the hunting like industry yeah that really like turns me off to it because i feel like it's why so many people like have a disdain for hunting. It's not necessarily, obviously there's people that go, you shouldn't kill animals. You shouldn't do this. You shouldn't do that. Right. There's always going to be those people, but there's the people that go the type of people that hunt. Yeah. It's almost a stereotype. Right. Yeah. And I didn't get into hunting until I was, until I moved to Nashville. I didn't grow up hunting. My dad's from the Rust Belt in Ohio, like steel mill. You know, his dad was a truck driver. Like they didn't own land, you know, kind of thing. So he didn't hunt. That was just not a part of my upbringing. Right. I used hunting and like inherently the guys I started writing songs with and the guys I connected with all love to hunt. Right. the guys I started writing songs with and the guys I connected with all love to hunt, right?

So it started out as like, okay, well, cool. These guys will take me out. That'll be super fun. And as I fell in love with it, because my career was taken off at the same time, right? And so life became more and more and more hectic. And it became this cathartic experience of like being able to process some of what was happening to me and just enjoying that hunting was the opposite of everything else I was doing in my life right it was like this pursuit of this thing that was so like pure it's calm like it's like I can I'm in control of like what's going on out here and it's like you know obviously not the animal but just being here and being like present and not having my phone and not worrying about posting a instagram or whatever it is yeah and i fell in love with that rapidly and so as i begin to go well dude i want to watch this on

television you know i want to see this so i start watching stuff and i'm like dude some of these guys are brutal on here like it's just not for me like this hunting like oh we're going if it's brown it's down and fucking kill it you know and it's like this whole thing about it to me was odd yeah like i was just right like it felt like this fake it felt fake to me right so then i turn on i see this show meat eater on outdoor channel and i'm watching it it's like i see the intro where it's like i'm steven ranella and hunting's not just about the pursuit of an animal and all that and i was like okay that's different than all the other shows that i've seen you know so i watched it and then there's this mega intelligent cat on there and he's cooking dude and he's taught

and he's like a wealth of knowledge right yeah and that's the thing that like that gets me like my dad's a big like thinker you know um and he's always been interested in just learning about new stuff like he's always just taking in information and learning things and so i think i kind of inherited that from him and so then i became kind of obsessed with like this show this meteor show so i started watching an outdoor channel and then it comes on netflix this new the new kind of version that comes on netflix and i'm like dude this is this is like earth shattering for me this is like it's marrying the intelligence of what this is and it's exposing people to in my opinion what's the right side of hunting to be on for the thing that i love about it so much and i just for you so then my career's starting to go and go i saw you on there you know i was like man that's cool he's having guests on you know that's pretty sick you know and all his buddies were like wicked smart and like knew everything and they do all

this to go to alaska and all these incredible places dude and so i just had my pr team i was like just reach out to this guy like please get me like how do i get on the show like i want to be on this i want to meet this guy and like be, be buddies with him and stuff. And it took, like, two years to finally get, like, okay, we got a time. He wants to do it. And what was it like when you first met? Well, I met him when he didn't have Meat Eater. I met him when he was doing a show called The Wild Within. There was a show that was on.

I forget what network it was on, but it was a show where he was kind of recreating how, like, the people that traveled across the West for the first time, the early settlers, how they hunted. And, you know, like he shot a moose with a musket and turned its cape into like a raft and was drifting with it. And I was like, what an interesting guy. Like really, the whole thing behind it, you could tell his integrity and his true appreciation for the outdoors and for wild animals and conservation. It feels very pure. And he's so well-read.

I'm like, this is different than every other hunting show that I've ever seen. The same thing to me. And then I met, he didn't even know what a podcast was. But to his defense, nobody did back then. It was very early. And I think I met him in 2011. And then he said he was doing a new show and he asked me if I wanted to hunt. And I said, I've always wanted to hunt and I never really knew how to get started.

Right. It's intimidating, dude. It's a hard thing to get into, man. It's a big learning curve. Yep. There's a lot. And then to try to figure out what to do and how to do it, and there's so much to learn, and there's so much involved in it.

And so he took me and my friend Brian Callen to Montana, and we went mule deer hunting. And from then on on I've never stopped hunting yeah that was 2012 yeah I was hooked what was it like okay I'm curious to know what it was like like so when you like you guys first meet was he like a little cold when you first met him a little standoffish yeah because you know he thinks everyone's a douchebag because a lot of people are douchebags and it was it was same thing for me it was like it was like we got there we hunted in wyoming and you guys hunted pronghorn right yeah yeah and had never i'd never done that um you know

so it's all new yeah it's amazing dude and that's a ancient ancient animal yeah it is that's the one of the animals that survived the uh mass extinction of megafauna 12 000 years ago yeah it's because this doesn't have any known really relatives right in the states it has speed that rivals like fucking cheetahs yeah because they used to run from cheetahs that's that's the animal it's such a fucking ancient animal it's so cool looking man yeah it's not a cervid. No. Yeah. No.

That's what I was so interested. Did you, have you, have you hunted these? No, I have not. Dude, have you, so I didn't, and Ronell told me this in the episode. When we, he was like, smell it. It smells like Fritos. Mmm. It does. It smells like Fritos, man.

It's so, it was so strange. And I didn't realize their hair was hollow. Mmm. So he's like, if you shoot one and it gets in the water, you're screwed, dude. Because it weighs like three times as much. Because its hair absorbs all the water. So it just sinks. So it's just like, well, if you got to get it out and you got to drag it, it weighs three times as much as it did before you shot it.

Oh, wow. Because then the entire thing is just saturated with water that's interesting which i thought was crazy i wonder why i don't know it's got to serve some sort of purpose yeah some ancient evolutionary purpose yeah but i thought steve was he was like it was crazy it was like we got there we're all so hyped because i brought my buddy stan and reed who i credit mostly with me getting into hunting like two of my best buddies i write songs with them um you know we hang our kids hang out together we hang out together a ton and um they've been hunting their whole life and um i took them with me

i said hey if i do this i want to bring my buddies it's a great episode thanks man yeah i love that one and uh but yeah we were like man ste Steve, does he not like us, dude? It was that first two hours where we were like, you know, but then I realized more. I'm like, dude, you're around people you don't know with guns and stuff. You know what he chilled out is we went and shot that night because we got those 6.5, 300 Weatherby's that the meat eater got and that they made with Weatherby. And we went and shot that night and sighted them in. And then he was like, all right, these guys know what they're doing.

And then he was, like, immediately great. Oh, that's interesting. It was like he felt, like, comfortable or, like, with us. Like, he knew we weren't, like, bozos who were just out there and, like, didn't know at all what we were doing. And, like, we were going to in some way be way be dangerous like to him or to his crew or whatever It was like immediately. It was like he was a completely different guy. I didn't I didn't know anything I didn't own a rifle at the time. I you know, I didn't know anything. I'd never shot an animal. I'd been fishing

That's it. Yeah, never been hunting at all. And then next thing you know, we're in Montana and the Missouri breaks. Right. You know, hiking up mountains looking for mule deer. Yeah. For days. And it was fascinating. Yeah. I mean, he's just a serious dude.

But he loves you. He immediately contacted me after you did a show. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, you should get that guy on. Dude, he's, man, he's great. And, I mean, he's just been so gracious to me. And I was up in Montana.

We had a couple days off, and I hit him up. I was like, hey, I'm in town. Like, what's something I can do? And he's like, dude, he's like, bring you. He's like, you can park your bus outside. He's like, come over. He's like, dude, he cooked dinner for me and my bus driver and my security guy.

Like, two guys he's never met. Like, it's like his kids are running around, like, dude, he cooked dinner for me and my bus driver and my security guy. Like two guys he's never met. It's like his kids are running around, like shooting us with Nerf guns and stuff. And I was like, this guy's great, man. You know, it was like, it was just great, man. I think he's the best spokesman for hunting. Yeah, I agree. Because he's the kind of guy that's so well read and so articulate that he can have a conversation with someone who has a completely opposite opinion of what hunting is. And at the end of it, they come away with a, just a much more comprehensive perspective of what it's about and what conservation is about

and why, why he loves this pursuit and why it resonates. Yeah. Yeah, man. He's wicked. Um, I love him, dude. He's just, he's an unbelievable guy. Yeah. Yeah, man, he's wicked. I love him, dude. He's just, he's an unbelievable guy. Yeah, I've been hunting with him a bunch of times now, including off camera. We went hunting recently in South Texas. He's a great guy. He is, man.

He's cool. Yeah. Have you ever rattled in bucks before? I haven't. I haven't. Oh, my God. We rattled in whitetails down in South Texas. It's the most fun shit ever.

Because you basically set up, you have to have an arrow knocked, and you're fucking, you're released on the cliff. Because they come running in. Right. Because it was in the middle of the rut. So you just clack and clack. You take the fake antlers and you rack them. And then these deer just come sprinting in, full full clip looking to fight and fuck. Dude, I've tried it a million times, right?

It just has never worked. You know, like Tennessee is not exactly a hotbed for rattling in bucks, you know. I mean, I can't say it doesn't work for some of my buddies, but it's never worked for me. It works amazing in South Texas. He said it works there better than anywhere he's ever been. And he doesn't, no one knows why, you know, but it's uh i think you just got to catch it at the right time you got to catch it right at a time when they're fucking and fighting right yeah it's like a week or two week like max where it really really works and otherwise they're like why is that going on

yeah it's not supposed to be going on exactly i'm not going out there that's weird you know deer interesting man they are interesting, man. They're interesting animals, man. The more you watch them, nothing makes sense to me with it. The more I watch them. The things that are supposed to happen often don't, I find. You're thinking, this is going to be, I'm hunting the wind. I got the stand.

I got the access. I got the wind. I got the spot. I got the stand. I got the food plot. Like in access. I got the wind. I got the spot. I got the stand. I got the food plot. You know, like in Tennessee, you can't hunt over bait. So it's like you plant the food plot. You know, it's knee high by July and the corn.

And it's like you got it. Everything's right. And then it's like it's rut. You know, it's like and it's just nothing. Sometimes you got there and you're like, how is this possible? You know? and it's just nothing. Sometimes you got there and you're like, how is this possible? Well, I have friends that are absolutely obsessed with whitetail, especially my friend John Dudley. He has an enormous plot of land

that he has dedicated just to bow hunting. And that guy cultivates it all year round. He works on the food plots. He has stands set up specifically in areas so that he knows which way the wind is blowing. He's going to go to that stand. He goes to the stand on an electric bike so he doesn't leave behind any trace of smell. So his feet never touch the ground.

I do the same thing. It sounds like it works for him. It works for him. Well, he's a master. I mean, John's like one of the best archers and best archery coaches in the space. He's an amazing guy. But, man, that guy is obsessed. And whitetail's the most hunted big game animal in North America.

I had a heartbreaker this year, man, a whitetail trip. I went to Oklahoma for a week, and it was jammed up, man. It was like, there's going to be deer like there's gonna be deer like you know it just felt everything's right right we got this guy taking us out he was awesome man he was stuff like killer guy you know and it's like we're like we're going in me and my buddies were going in so as i went with dan and reed same guys i did meteor with we went and we're like dude we're gonna do we're tagging out first night dude like they're sending us all these deer pics like you know and we're like man this is gonna be great

so first night don't really see anything right it's like oh great so morning dude we'll be tagged out you know morning and it's for reason this is so it's archery only you know Oklahoma's only got like two week rifle season I think so we're doing archery morning comes nothing we're like man like not really seeing like a ton of deer and stuff and we're like we're getting tonight's tonight you know we got five days to be out there and we were thinking we're gonna be going home early dude like we're gonna be here the first night we're gonna tag out and be like trying to spend two days just hanging out, you know, or something. And so about the third day, we're like, well, let's all switch. We'd all been in the same spots, you know, different stands because they had a few different leases kind of around this area of Oklahoma.

So we were all going to different spots. And I'm like, well, let's all switch up. Right. So I get in this tree in the afternoon, sitting there. My buddy Dan, he's like, he's probably 500 yards away from me in another tree. And the grass is kind of like really soft, rolling hills. Like it looks flat almost if you're in the car. And then you realize there's a little bit of elevation change going on.

So there's like this draw in between me and Dan. I'm there and it's freezing, dude. Wind's blowing 25 miles an hour. I mean, just hammering. But the wind's perfect for where I'm hunting at, right? Because it's kind of like this grove of like cedars, you know, and that's where all the deer are. Because everything else is just ag fields around. I'm sitting there.

I got these three does. I watch them come like off this hill. They come through the Cedars, hop this fence, dude, they're 25 yards in me, like right on me, dude. You know? So I'm already like kind of standing up cause I'm, I'm not, you know, we're not even hunting a doe at this point, you know? And all of a sudden, man, behind this kind of berm over to my left, there's like a little pond behind this berm walks out, dude, I you're gonna think i'm lying 230 inch deer man what no lie i everybody watching this is gonna be like you're lying is no you didn't see a 230

inch deer 230 inch deer comes out he's at 60 yards broadside i've got my arrow i'm on the d loop i'm i'm up but i'm not drawing on him because he's broadside at 60 the winds go 25 miles an hour right so it's so it's like that arrow is going to go right i'm not good enough to compensate for that kind of wind i've also got does at 25 yards underneath my feet and I'm going, this buck's coming in, dude. He's walking right into this thing. There's no chance he doesn't walk in here. There's does in here feeding underneath my feet and he's looking right at him broadside like this. So I'm hooked up. He kind of looks over, he's looking at the does and then he looks back really quick and he takes off like it's dead sprint just

stays at 60 and goes all the watch him go all the way into the cedars did the wind swirl no the wind didn't swirl and i'm going what is going on i called dan i'm like shaking at this point i've got my bow back on the thing because the the does spooked out and they followed him when they saw they looked back at him and when he took off they took off i called dan i was like dude i saw just once in 10 lifetime deer just come out and spooked at 60 yards like it can't be me if the wind's great like nothing saw me dude it wasn't me and then he's like he's on the phone with me he goes dude there's coyotes running through the draw right now. I can see them. And I'm like, oh, gosh.

So I sat in that stand for the next three days, just every morning, three hours, night, three hours. Fucking coyotes. So last morning, I'm up there. I look up back to where Dan was sitting at. There's kind of another ag fence into a cut. It's like a cut cotton field. So it's not even like, even though it's cut, there's kind of a, another ag fence into a cut. It's like a cut cotton field. So it's not even like, even though it's cut, there's not even food in it, right? There's not beans in it or corn in it. It's a cut cotton field. So really in theory, nothing that

these deer would be eating in this field really. So Dan's hunting somewhere else. So I call our guy, I see all these deer and I'm, I'm glassing probably, like I said, 500 ish yards out. I'm glassing and I see all these does, all these does. And I see him dude, just, I mean, you could see from 500 yards, he's a giant without binoculars. You know what I mean? Like just no doubt that this is the same deer and he's cruising. And there's like, if you can imagine, there's this wheat grass on the fence row right there. That's grown up probably four foot, five foot maybe. And there's a gap in it where there's a fence and probably six feet. There's another gap where there's a fence. So it's all grass the whole way around, except for where

those two fences are. So I watch every doe pile past the first fence, past the second fence. He's behind him. He comes past the first fence, never goes past the second fence. And I go, I call my guy. I said, dude, come get me. This deer's bedded in this little tiny spot. I know exactly where he is. And he goes, all right. He said, we're going back tonight because this deer is not going to move. He said, we're going to do spot and stalk up to this spot because I know he's laying right there. Stalk up. Get probably 75 yards from that spot.

And we pretty good feeling he's going to jump this fence and come right across this field to where we're at. And we're just going to be right there. You know, I'm sitting crisscross applesauce like ready. He goes, if we got 15 minutes of light left, he's like, we're going to creep up there and see if we can spook him up kind of thing. We get up there. Dude, my heart is going a million miles an hour. It probably is right now just from being fat. But it was really going at that time, dude.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I'm one blood pressure point away from a stroke at this point, like hiking up this thing. We get up there and we're like, no, he's not there. I'm like, how can he not be there? So we're looking. We look down the fence and this property line right there is like so it's like this fence we have access to this fence here there's an adjacent fence right here that's not that they don't have access on so we hop look he's a hundred yards in the cut cotton field

just standing out in the cotton field this is our last night we're going to the plane after the hunt and it was over man 230 inch deer never i'll never see him again never see anything like it wow this is not high fence this is not a pin pay to play like pick your deer thing like i was hope people be excited to shoot a 145 on this trip you know what i mean biggest i've ever killed is 155 you know and so i'm like i got pictures of him oh somewhere yeah i want to see he's nuts let me see if i can find him on here it's fascinating how the the appeal of those old mature bucks because you know they're so smart. They don't get to be that big unless they make all the right moves for five or six years.

Forever. They make it forever, dude, and it's just, let me see if I can find this thing. But that's how they get to be that big, by just doing weird shit. Just being smart, dude. Not being predictable. Where's this guy at, man? I got him in my text messages if I don't have him here.

Yeah, I got him in my text messages. Dead air. You ever watch Always Sunny? I don't worry about dead air. I remember the scene in Always Sunny where they're trying to do a podcast and nobody's saying anything. And Danny DeVito just goes, dead air. they're trying to do a podcast and nobody's saying anything. Danny DeVito just goes, dead air.

That always rings in my head when I'm doing an interview for some reason. Okay, so I'm close here. I don't think people are ever going to appreciate that don't hunt what it means to see an animal that's that unusual. Holy fuck. Yeah. Holy shit, dude. That's not Holy fuck. Yeah. Holy shit, dude. That's not a joke. Yeah.

That's a gigantic deer. Mm-hmm. Wow. Wow. Yeah. This is this year? Mm-hmm. So he's still alive, you think?

Mm-hmm. Do they have any trail cam photos of him? Yeah, that's from a few weeks before we were out there. This is where I was, right? So this is my kind of spot here. What time of year were you there? We were there December, like second week of December. Yeah.

You going back? Oh, I'm going to have to. They said, here's the thing with this deer, right? Here's another angle of him. They go, here's the thing with this deer. They go, even if he loses 20 inches he's a 210 inch deer but there's a potential that he could be a 250 inch deer next year right if there's only five yeah god this deer this deer breaks the county record by 60 inches and it's a top 10 archery deer in the history of oklahoma if it

goes down what's the number one number one i could look it up it's in the two like 40s range like 245 range of all-time archery deer in the state of oklahoma i didn't know oklahoma deer were that big i don't think anybody does. Let's edit this part out. Don't go to Oklahoma. It stinks to hunt in northern Oklahoma. It stinks. Yeah. Dudley has a spot in Oklahoma. I didn't know about it until this year. He's got a lease in Oklahoma. He's got some big

fucking deer on that lease too. We just had a friend that put us on to this guy and he was like, man, this guy's great. He knows his stuff and he's eager and he's you know knows his stuff and he's eager and you know he's excited to have y'all down and i was like cool man like you gotta think man where i'm hunting tennessee dude a big deer in tennessee is 140 inch deer right you know so like i killed a 155 in mississippi and thought i killed a tyrannosaurus rex dude you know yeah so like

when you're going out west dude and seeing these, it's unbelievable to a guy like myself to even see that, you know? I mean, growing a 145 on my own place would be deer of a lifetime for most guys in southeast. North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, like, that's the biggest deer you'll ever see. Yeah, the obsession that people have with cultivating land developed specifically to encourage whitetail deer to move there. I mean, there's a whole industry behind it where people buy enormous plots of land and hire people to do land management just to set it up for deer. Yeah. I mean, I can't say I don't do it myself. It's like, it's just so intoxicating of like not, and it's like, man, the high fence thing,

it just doesn't do anything for me. I've never done it. I don't want to do it. It just doesn't, it's just not the same, dude. It's a different thing. It's just not even comparable. It's like not knowing what's going to walk out is almost the exciting part to me. Yeah.

It's the wildness. The fact that you're you're engaging with a wild animal yeah the people that they feed them with feeders and they have a high fence and it's only 500 acres you know where they all are they can't get out right it's like do you want to shoot ricky or johnny or bobby or greg or which one and they just go like that's Greg's whistle he'll come out on that one you know well they literally hear the feeders going off and they come in which is just yep it's there's a lot of that in Texas yeah Tennessee there's no you can have you can feed them like not it's two weeks before season you have to have all feed uh like you can't have a grain of corn

on the ground that's not in a food plot you know you can hunt our food plot if you plant it and cultivate it and stuff and you can feed you know you can do protein corn stuff like obviously you can't do it during turkey season either so you have to have it up for that as well through the winter but through the you can supplement well not even winter because right that's season right yeah our season ends like first week of january in tennessee so after that you could have you could have stuff out so you really you're feeding through the spring and summer have you ever done any uh out west hunting like elk hunting no i want to real bad though like real bad if you think you get obsessed with whitetail. I keep hearing about it. Wait until you see a 400-inch bull raking its way through the trees looking like a fucking dinosaur.

Yeah. And then you hear him scream. Hit the bugle. I can't even imagine. Your blood boils. It's the wildest feeling. We were talking before the derrick wolf who you know was in the fucking super bowl and they asked him what is better sacking tom brady

or shooting an elk and he's like sack of tom brady's pretty fucking cool but it's not even close yeah it's not even close there's something about those animals man what's a turkey hunting they call it poor man's elk hunting. Right. Because there's the call and response thing. Yeah. I've shot a turkey. It's not the same thing.

Turkeys are cool. Yeah. They're delicious. It's great. It's fun. They are delicious. It's not the same thing. Yeah.

It's not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But that's why they call it the poor man's elk hunting. Well, it's just because you call them in. That's all. That's where it ends. The interactive nature of it, I think, is what people get addicted to. And that can be similar to the elk hunting experience, too. Well, I think it's just elk is just a majestic animal, too.

When you see them, just the fucking antlers are insane. Yeah. And they're just massive. And it's just so delicious, too. The meat is so good. Yeah. I've had some buddies cook for me that have got one, and it's, yeah, I'd love to get one of my own for sure. Yeah.

It'd be real nice. The problem with elk hunting is it's in the mountains. Yep. And it's a lot of hoofing. Uh-huh. Yeah. And not a lot of 300-pound guys elk hunting. You know what I mean?

I can't imagine. Not successfully. Unless they're 6'8 or something, dude. You know what I mean? Right. Like Derek. Yeah. It's not easy. No 6'8 or something, dude. You know what I mean? Right. Like Derek. Yeah. It's not easy.

No. It's the hardest in terms of just physical workload. It's also part of it, though, right? It's part of how much work you put into it to get this thing out of it. Well, when I became friends with Cam Haynes, that's why I was so baffled. I was like, why is this guy running all the time? Yeah. He tells me he runs all the time for hunting.

I'm like, what? How does that make any sense? And then you go hunting for the first time in the mountains. You're like, why is this guy running all the time? Yeah. He tells me he runs all the time for hunting. I'm like, what? How does that make any sense? And then you go hunting for the first time in the mountains. You're like, oh. Oh, this is why this guy. And I thought I was in pretty good shape. I was like, oh, my God. This is crazy.

It's like Steve, dude. That guy can just go. Yeah. I mean, he can just go. He's a mountain goat. Go. Yeah. And he's been doing that his whole life, too.

Yeah. Puts in so many hours a year in the mountains. Yeah. That Buffalo book he wrote is unbelievable. It's very good. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, he got the rights to that, luckily, and now re-released it with his audio. Because when he first sold it, they had an actor read it.

You know, like some voiceover actor. It was terrible. Yeah, so he re-recorded it in his own voice, which is amazing. Yeah, but that's a thing that happens with a lot of first-time authors is they don't trust you to read it. They want to get someone who's some sort of a professional. So he lost that argument. And then as time went on and he became more prominent and famous, then he was able to acquire the rights through through meat eater and then re-release it, which is excellent.

Yeah. That's, that's awesome, man. That guy, that, um, that, that, I don't know if it was like a book, like that close encounters thing. Have you listened to that? Yeah. Dude, that is chilling, man. That guy that goes through the like hypothermia thing, dude, is one of the most intense things

I've ever listened to man the one of the most intense stories he's ever told me was when they were on a fognak island in alaska grizzly bear grizzly bear attack oh man yeah i was like on the edge of my seat dude when they were telling us that's foot bear running through their camp dude i can't even claim their elk they didn't know yet. Yeah. They shot it the day before. They came back to pack it out.

And they're sitting there eating sandwiches. Yeah. No one has a gun on them. Yeah. And this thing just comes running through the camp. What did they say? Giannis hit it with a walking stick or something. Yeah, from like five feet away.

Yeah. He said he could feel the jaws snapping as it ran past him yeah that freaked me out dirt myth was on its back yeah something happened and like he got knocked on to the back of this thing and rode it for like 10 yards yeah they ran like intersecting paths like he was running away from the bear the bear was running away from the bear, the bear was running away from them. Yeah. And the bear, like, hit him or something, and he flipped on its back. For, like, 10 yards, you said. Yeah. Can you imagine that memory?

No. Of, like, this bear is running, and somehow or another you're on its back. Right. What the fuck? Yeah. I remember him telling, like, they were telling us that part, and he was, yeah, I hit this bear, and, you know, everybody's kind of laughing, and he's laughing and stuff. And then, like, right when the story stops, he looks at me and goes, I think about it every day. Of course.

Like, he was just, like, he went just immediately. Like, it was funny to tell it, and then he was, like, it was also the most terrifying thing of all time. You know, that guy, he also works for that show, Trafficked. Really? Yeah, yeah. I time you know that guy he also works for that show trafficked so really yeah yeah i didn't know that yeah mariana van zeller took him in the jungles of columbia where they grow and manufacture cocaine jesus yeah so he's i've seen that show yeah i've seen a bunch of bunch of episodes of that show that dude has been on some of the most insane adventures ever yeah to go from riding a grizzly bear's back to packing out cocaine with mules these these you know drug mules that are taking it in backpacks through the jungle i can't imagine how like high intensity that moment was like to be like to know

that these people could just like shoot you because they want to. Or because they have to. Right. Yeah, because someone comes along and catches them, and they're interacting with reporters, and they just say, you're going to kill these fucking people in front of us. Yeah. Jesus, dude. Yeah. That's a whole other kind of stress, dude, that I don't want to be a part of.

Mariana is a gangster. That lady's been doing that boots on the ground type dangerous journalism for fucking years. I found out about her because of the documentary they did on Vanguard called the Oxycontin Express. They detailed those pain clinics they had in Florida. They would sell people

oxys and there was no database. So you could go from one pain clinic to the next pain clinic and just stack up thousands of pills. That's wild. And then they would just drive up the coast, drive up Florida rather, into the northern states and sell them. And that was the OxyContin Express. Dude, how do you get in?

Like, that's got to be such a specific, like, sect of, like, humanity that wants to, like, get into that kind of journalism, right? Yeah, you got to be very, very, very brave. sect of like humanity that wants to like get into that kind of journalism right yeah you gotta be very very very brave yeah it's not like that's not you're not reading the morning news dude that's not that's not scratching the itch for you no she's trying to figure things out and then expose people to information that's otherwise unavailable you know she she found that there was la cops that were selling drugs to the Mexican cartels. Excuse me, they were selling guns to the Mexican cartels. So they would confiscate guns from criminals,

and then they would fill up a trunk with AKs and ARs and pistols, and then they would drive to Mexico because to get into Mexico is easy. Coming to America is where it's difficult and they check you. But get into Mexico, you just drive right through. So they were driving right through with trunkfuls of confiscated weapons. They delivered them to the cartels. Wow, dude. It's just hard to believe that that kind of stuff happens.

It's happening right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she said it happens all the time. And that's the main way they acquire weapons. That's wild, man. It's crazy. Fucking way they acquire weapons. That's wild, man. It's crazy. Fucking cops.

Yeah. The world's crazy, man. This is a crazy place, dude. You know? Yeah. It's wild that we think about all the different things, the conflicts that are happening overseas, when one of the most wild conflicts is happening right south of our border. And, you know, you could literally walk over there.

Yeah. south of our border yeah and you know you could literally walk over there yeah um i'm sure you heard about those folks that got killed where the these people went down there i think i think the story is one of the women went over there for plastic surgery i think she went over there they crossed the border i think she's getting a butt lift or something because it's like cheaper in mexico right and they got mistaken for a rival cartel. They got mistaken for some sort of rival drug dealers or something. And they killed two of them. And they kidnapped these Americans and killed two of them. Jeez, dude.

Yeah. That's crazy. That's a real recent story. Here it is. How a trip to Mexico for cosmetic surgery turned deadly for U.S. Quartet. cosmetic surgery turned deadly for u.s quartet deaths of two of four americans kidnapped at matamoros uh placed spotlight on cartels impunity and on medical tourism jesus christ that is wild man fucking crazy yeah it's so they came from lake city south Carolina, to Matamoros, to Malapas, just south of the U.S.-Mexico frontier. They arrived in the border city on the 3rd of March, but never made it to the clinic.

Members of a violent drug cartel that controls the area mistook the group of Americans as rival traffickers, killed two of them, and kidnapped McGee and one of her friends. McGee and Eric Williams were rescued within days and the bodies of her cousin Shahid Woodward and friend Zendel Brown were later repatriated. On Thursday, five men who allegedly carried out the attack were dumped on a Matamoros street along with a surreal letter of apology purportedly from the Gulf cartel. We asked the public to be calm, the letter said in spanish we are committed that the mistakes caused by indiscipline won't be repeated and that those responsible pay

no matter who they are wow dude yeah i mean that's wild stuff dude it's it's a sketchy place man and it's it's fueled by the fact that drugs are illegal. That's what's crazy. It's like our idea that we're going to keep people safe by making drugs illegal is propping up an illegal enterprise worth untold billions of dollars just south of us. Massive amounts, dude. Massive amounts of money. Like you can't even process how much money it is. It's crazy. You know?

Yeah. And it's also responsible for the fentanyl deaths of 100,000 people a year. It's like fucking A, man. Crazy times, man. Yeah. It really is, man. I've always wanted to go to Mexico to hunt because, you know, in Sonora. And the coos deer and stuff like that.

Yeah, coos and a giant mule deer. Yeah. They have giant mule deer south of the border. Really? Yeah. Huge. Huge. Have you seen the mule deer in Mexico Just Google giant mule deer in Mexico

Yeah, people go a buddy of mine just went over there and shot up fucking monster And he said I don't know if I'm going back again He said we had to meet members of the cartel and we pulled up this place these dudes look at the size of these mule deer I mean oh goodness. Yeah, look at the size of these mule deer. Oh, goodness. Yeah, look at these things. And it's all in the desert of Mexico. It's like one of the most known places for enormous mule deer in Sonora, which is interesting, right, because they have these tiny little coos deer. And then they have these just monster.

Oh, look at that one. Goodness. Yeah. Click on that one, Jamie. Yeah, that one right one. Goodness. Yeah. Click on that one, Jamie. Yeah, that one right there. Look at that fucker. Good night, dude. I mean, monstrous, monstrous mule deer.

That's like semi-elk, dude. You're like getting into elk territory with that. You know what I mean? And it's the territory is gorgeous, and it's like the landscape is beautiful. But, you know, you might pass some dudes that are, you know, parked in front of a G-Wagon with, you know, AKs hanging from their shoulders. And you're like, oh, my God.

And then they ask you questions and talk to you, and you're like, oh, fuck. Yeah. They just might kidnap you. God, that'd be real scary. Yeah, I mean, most of the time they leave those people alone because there's a lot of revenue and tourism, and they don't want to fuck that up.

And they also don't want to bring heat down on them, which is what happened when these Americans got kidnapped. All of a sudden the world is aware. And that can be very dangerous for them. Yeah. But I think them dropping those five goss off on the street is probably going to squash it, you know, as weird as that is. That's crazy, man. That's crazy stuff, man. It's just, like, again, it's just hard to believe that that stuff's going on right now right there somewhere on the same landmass. Yeah as America

That's what's crazy the same Literally just further down south in Texas Closer like it's closer to where we're at right now than I was this morning from where we're at right now. Yeah That's a live in Nashville,ville yeah you know just some invisible border that we created decided this is the line of lawlessness yeah it is wild i still would like to go down there i just want i would like to know if there's a way to do it safely beautiful country though oh my god i've been down there a couple times. It's gorgeous, man.

Well, Steve goes down there every year to hunt coos deer, and he says it's sketchy. Yeah. It's sketchy, but they do it at this ranch that has no electricity. It's this gorgeous place. Yeah. And they have this Mexican lady who cooks for them. All, like, real traditional Mexican food. Yeah.

He says it's insane. I went down there a few years ago to do a deal with Columbia Sportswear. And I went down there to shoot some content for them. We were flying into Cabo, right? And so the thing was we're going to go down there and try to do more, like catch marlin you know it was gonna be the idea right and i'm like well this is a sick like indoors like i get getting paid to like go like fish for marlin like in mexico that's awesome you know so i took a couple of my buddies down there with me um jonathan and dan and ray uh three of my dearest friends and um we go down and like all we had to do was like wear our

columbia stuff and they just took pictures of us like hanging out right so we get into cabo again none of us have ever been to mexico before and you know you hear those kind of stories so you're like man it's like are we gonna be cool and they're like yeah well you know cabo like it's like resort town you're good whatever so we get down get out of the plane there's a you know there's the guy with the van and it's like got like the name of like our party or whatever and it's like columbia or something and some of the columbia like staff were coming down there with us too like the head of pfg and and those kind of folks and so we get in the van and like we're like oh there's cabo and stuff and we're driving and like we get on the interstate and I'm like, man, Cabo's seems like it's behind us kind of right now.

You know, like, seems like we're not going kind of towards it, you know. And I was like, man, that's kind of, it's kind of odd. And then we're driving for like an hour and a half. And then it's like, we are in like nowhere like nowhere desert dude and i'm like is this right dude like are we because all we got's the guy driving us dude it's the guy driving us and like me and my buddies and my manager cappy and we're like i think because the columbia people traveled separate from us right so we're like, I think because the Columbia people traveled separate from us. Right. So we're like, we're just hoping that this guy's like taking us to the right place. And all of a sudden, like we pull into this just like town along the coast. And when I say town, there's not a McDonald's. There's not even like a store. Right. It's like a little the roads are like sand roads dude and the when i say the houses are like like you think of a beach house right it's like there's the beat

there's the house and there's like the dunes and then like you walk through the dunes and there's the beach these houses were on the beach bro like they were on the sand like all the furniture in the house was poured concrete with cushions on it. Whoa. So if like the hurricane were to come, it would just, you'd just put new cushions on it. The house would still be there. You know what I mean? It was like, and we walk in and it's like, sure as shit that Columbia like folks are there.

And there's like these two guys there and they're whipping up, like they're making homemade tortilla chips. They're cutting the tortillas and like dropping them in the oil, chopping up, like making homemade guac and stuff. And I'm like, whoa, this is sick, you know. But where are we? Like where is this place, you know? So we do our thing that evening, get settled in. We go out, fish. I caught like a 90-pound tuna or something the next day.

It was awesome. I had so much fun. So we get back that night and it's when I say it's nighttime and we're, I mean, it's desolate, right? There's houses kind of along the beach, but you can tell that not all of them are like occupied all the time. Right. And it's not like these houses you think of in the States, like they're not these big palatial, like beach homes. Like we have, they're kind of quaint, like smaller homes. And all of a sudden we're sitting out there, we got a little fire going to be my buddies picking the

guitar or whatever i remember looking you can just see like miles down the beach and i just see just this one headlight coming down the beach from like miles and miles down and i'm like shit dude like we like because all the columbia people they were staying in like a hotel like a resort like 30 minutes away so we're at the house alone in this town this light just keeps coming and keeps coming and there's a beach little access road right beside our house where we're staying and this atv comes and it's still like the lights like and it pulls up and it stops right where we're at and i'm like oh shit dude like are we about to like have to pay somebody dude like what what the hell's going on turns off gets off and it's this older like white

couple from minnesota and i'm like okay this is mega weird. And they're like, what are you, what are you guys doing down here? I'm like, oh, we're, we're down here writing songs, whatever. And it was really, it's really funny. My buddy, Dan, he goes, we're talking, so we start talking to these people and they're like, yeah, we're retired. And we come down, our kids are in college and we come down here and live just for the, you know, summer or whatever, winter or whatever, and stay down here. I was like, oh, that's, summer or whatever, winter or whatever, and stay down here. And I was like, oh, that's cool. You know, we don't know these people at all.

And my manager's asleep. So it's just me and Dan and Jonathan and Ray. It's got to be until 11 o'clock at night. And so he's talking to my buddy Dan, starts talking to this guy. And he's like, yeah. He's like, I'd love to, you know, get some, get some grass or whatever. You know, this guy had said something about grass, but not, he wasn't talking about weed. And then my buddy Dan was like, yeah, I'd love to get some grass or whatever, you know?

And he's like, well, I got some back at the house. Why don't y'all come over to the house? And we were like, that seems kind of sketch, right? And I'm like, Dan, we're going'm like damn we're going dude we're going and he was like dude this is a lot of pressure dude he's like cappy's in there dude like we're about to walk off in this fucking town dude in mexico like sand streets dude like i don't know where all of these people are at so we go down there we walk down the road we go in there dude and it's like just this kind of old like cool, cool-ass biker guy and his wife, dude,

and just rolls this one up, dude, and we rip with these folks. And we're walking with them and talking, and he's like, yeah, you guys like country music? You know, my buddy Dan says that. And he's like, yeah, but I don't like any of them new guys. You know, they're all sissies or whatever kind of thing, you know. And my buddy dan's like yeah there's a couple guys that are pretty good though and stuff and so we get in there hang out and we tell them we're riding atvs the next day and they're like well we'll show you guys around

we start ripping tequila shots it's just me and my buddy dan and he's like 60 year old folks hanging out and it comes to this point where my buddy dan goes he goes dude i gotta tell him man and i was like man. And I was like, what do you mean? It's like, tell him what? What do you got to tell him? He's like, I got to tell him, dude, because like, I know their grandkids are probably like, like you, dude. Like their grandkids probably think you're cool, dude, and they're not going to know. And he's like, imagine, he goes, dude, he's like, get it together. Dude, we're like, we're zoink, dude. We're taking tequila shots, like smoking J's with these old folks. like we're zoink dude we're taking tequila shots like smoking jays with these old folks and he's like dude imagine if these people were in their 20s and they were hanging out with george straight dude and it was their grandparents hanging out with george straight and they didn't know

that it was george straight or whatever and i was like dude i'm not george straight though dude like what are you talking about and he goes man this guy, this guy's name's Luke and everything. And they're like, oh, cool, you know. And, like, we took a picture with them. And the guy, like, rolled us a J for the next day. And, like, we take off out. And we're like, okay, mission, like, get back to this house. Right? We get out in the street.

There's no street lights, dude. There's one light on this one house. And it's just kind of illuminating this road, this like sand clay kind of road in front of us. And we walk out and I just hear this like cling, cling, cling. It's like a bell. And all of a sudden, dude, these two huge steers, dude, walk out like bulls, dude, walk down this road. And like, i'm staring down the barrel dude of these two massive bulls dude on the beach in mexico with dan we're baked we've been hanging out with these old people dude we're halfway lost trying to get back to this house and we like hot we're like hiding behind this dumpster and i'm like is this real like where are we dude what is this place and we get back we

get back to the house. The bulls pass. We make it back. And it's got to be two or three in the morning at this point. Get back. And we open the slot. We're trying to sneak in because everybody's in bed, dude. And I'm like, I felt like I was sneaking out of my parents' house or something again.

But I was like 24 or five years old. Open the door. My manager, unbeknownst to us, is sleeping on the couch outside. And when we click the door open, he's like, oh, God, he gets like we're freaked out. And I was like, dude, get up. I was like, I know there's leftover shrimp in there, dude. Make us a stir fry. He was like, what are you talking about?

I was like, dude, we've been hanging out with these old people. We almost got killed by these bulls. And to his credit, dude, he got up and whipped us up like this breakfast stir fry at like three something in the morning, dude. And like that was my Mexico experience. So it's not, it was a great time. That's a rural Mexico experience. Yeah.

It was awesome, dude. You know who lives in Mexico? Jesse Ventura. Really? Yeah. When he stopped being governor of Minnesota, he got a compound in Mexico. Why? Well, you know, he was doing that conspiracy theory show.

I'm going to get some of this. And I think he got balls deep into this idea that America is so profoundly corrupt and dangerous. And, you know, he didn't want to have any part of it anymore. He wanted to get the fuck out of america and he bought a compound in mexico dude that's wild man how old is he now he's got to be like pretty old is he 80s or 70s late 70s it's a good question i had him on the podcast a few years back and you know he's got like a little bit of a shake to him now. Right. He's got some health issues. Mm-hmm. How old is he now? 71 years old.

71. Minnesota. Jesse Ventura from Minnesota. So he was a wrestler. Yeah. Wild, man. Yeah, he was a wrestler and then became the governor of Minnesota

as an independent. That's pretty cool. Yeah. That's rare. That's like a rare thing to happen. He was going to run for president. He was a predator. Yeah, he was a predator. president as a predator yeah oh predator right that's right right right he was amazing yeah that was a great fucking movie man that was fun did you see the new one

i haven't seen the new one the new one's awesome is it they yeah they did a new one about the comanches so that's pretty the new one is uh like a pre is it yeah they did a new one about the comanches so that's pretty the new one is uh like a prequel oh it's like the predators have been coming to yeah for a long time right yeah okay that's cool yeah when they come and they make war with the comanche it's fucking awesome is it you liked it fuck yeah i wanted to check it out. I love those movies. Anything involving aliens and Native Americans, I'm in. Dude, I feel like those gung-ho, like, late 80s, like, early 90s action movies were, like, the sickest, dude. I remember Commando. I've seen that movie 8,000 times, dude.

Like, it's just, that was just a different level, dude. Schwarzenegger was just killing it, dude. Oh, he had so many of those movies, too. So many of those gung-ho kind of corny action movies. But they were sick, though, dude. They were sick, dude. They were. Like, I mean, how many guys... Look at him, dude.

Look at this guy. He was so jacked. I'd like to look like 10% of that guy, dude. Would be awesome, you know? It's interesting seeing guys like that as they get older it's just like you realize like we don't have much time you really don't because when i was in high school this guy was a stud yeah now he's this older dude is this the trailer i love the chainmail vest the bad guy in this movie wears, dude. All those movies back then, the Chuck Norris movies.

The rocket launcher, dude, was so hard, dude, when he pulled the rocket launcher out. Commando. Look at that guy, dude. This guy, he had the chainmail vest, dude. Yeah, those movies were so good. Kindergarten Cop. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, this movie's legendary. Me and my dad used to watch it. Is that yeah. Yeah, this movie's legendary. Me and my dad. Is that Radon Chong? I don't know. Who was in that with him? Alyssa Milano. Alyssa Milano's in it. His young daughter.

Yeah, it's Radon Chong. That's Tommy Chong's daughter. Wild. How about another one? Big Trouble in Little China, dude. Oh, yeah. Love that flick, dude. That's a classic.

I love it. Me and my dad watch that all the time. That's a classic. Yeah, that was a classic one, man. Yeah. It's funny when you try to go back and watch those things now. Is it a qualifier for being old that like everything or feeling old where you're like, man, stuff was better back then?

That's just a qualifier right yeah like everybody thinks that way yeah yeah i mean i listen to my kids music now i'm like what the fuck are you listening to this is nonsense right you know but essentially my 12 year old is really into like old shit she's into kiss and nirvana and all all kinds like she she plays me music and i'm like how the fuck do you know this? Like, she's into, like, really, my 14-year-old is into, like, contemporary shit. Like, whatever's popular now, she's into that. Right.

She's into a lot of rap, and my 12-year-old is into, like, really cool old music. What are you into, music-wise? Like, what would be, okay, you got five, dude. Okay, you only listen to five artists forever. Oh, my God. And it's not, so it's technically not a favorite five list yeah because i always take into account in this question like the scope of the catalog right so like if i can really only listen to five artists forever like i don't want to listen to someone with two albums that i really like like i gotta have somebody that's got enough of a catalog to keep me going through that.

I'm a giant Hendrix fan. Which is why I named the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience. So Hendrix would have to be on the list. There's something about Hendrix to me has always been like a magical figure. There's something about him that just embodied

the spirit of the rebelliousness of the 1960s this shift from the 50s to the 60s and yeah the ex-army guy i mean he was like that was the whole he was like a micro cause like a you know he was like a synopsis of the whole era yes like embodied in like a human being also unparalleled genius on the guitar like no one had ever seen anything like that before yeah without a doubt like eric clapton famously talked about the first time he saw jimmy hendrix play and he just wanted to throw his guitar into the fire like what the fuck am i doing what am i gonna do

right yeah jesus christ um you know i used to do uh news radio the sitcom with phil hartman and when phil hartman was young he worked as like a roadie. And, you know, he worked for, I think it was the Whiskey. Pretty sure it was the Whiskey. And so he was there, I believe he was 18, when Hendrix was playing. And his job was to make sure that the speakers didn't fall into the audience, like the way it was set up. So he had to stand there, like right by the stage, while Hendrix was right there playing in front of him. That's wild. He said it was the most fucking surreal experience of his life, just seeing Hendrix wail at the whiskey on Sunset.

Just crushing. He's a kid, just standing there with his hands on his speaker, making sure it doesn't fall over. It's just hard to even fathom that. It's hard to fathom, yeah. So Hendrix? Hendrix for sure. Oh, my God. It's tough.

It's a tough question. You only have five. It's hard. I'm a giant fan of classic rock. I really love Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. There's something about the music for me that is of that era, of the 1960s. I'm obsessed with 1960s cars. I have a bunch of 60s muscle cars.

They're my favorite. Sometimes I go in my garage and I just stare at them. I just sit there for like an hour and just stare at them. Man, these are sick. I'll just pull up a folding chair and just stare at the car. There's just something about those things. I mean, that's when I was born, too. I was born in 67, and I feel like there's something about that,

about going to high school, like when those cars had, you know, like you could kind of acquire those cars when you're 18. And it was, you know, because they weren't really that valuable back then, oddly enough. Right. They were just kind of like the cars people had. Yeah. You could get like a 1968 Olds for like two grand, like a really mint one. That's wild.

Yeah. And it was just, there's something about that era that to me symbolizes the shift in American culture. The American culture that shifted from the, you shifted from the music and the culture of the 1950s to the 1960s. The Vietnam War and just the change of the society and the zeitgeist shifted and the drugs and the rebelliousness and the hippie movement and the anti-war movement and just the rock and roll

was undeniable, you know? Yeah, definitely. The doors. Yeah, it had balls behind it man it was like and it was like the music was made you know it wasn't this commercialized thing right like it wasn't like no one was thinking about it in that sense at that time and maybe i'm insane for thinking that but it just it feels like that someone who wasn't even born then who goes back and listens to that music, it has this like grit to it that just doesn't exist much.

Go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix. Just do that. That's not that much time. You know, you're talking about like the difference between like 2013 and today. The difference between 2013 music wise and today is not that much of a difference. No, it's not. It's just music. Country music it is is it it is yeah i mean you think about hey i gotta piss let's come back and we'll talk about the difference i can imagine it gets wild dude i get i'll get twisted dude on it i get a little bit i get mega anxiety guy dude yeah i get

like here's my thing man i used to love it dude and when i when it's good it can't be beat right right but i feel like as i got so like it starts out right like you're in college it's like okay 10 out of 10 times i'm loving this yeah right And then the years kind of went on and it was like, okay, like one out of every 10 times, it's not great for me. And then like the years went on and it was like three times out of 10. And now it's kind of this point where it's like nine times out of 10,

dude, I'm like thinking I'm dying. I'm having a panic attack, dude. And it's like, I just, dude, it,

and I hate that. Cause it is like the, in my opinion, one that because it is like the in my opinion one of the best things in the world yeah but like for me it's like it's somehow like my brain has changed where it like doesn't well you have responsibilities now yeah but it's like i even that i guess i don't even think it's that it's like it's almost like it's a chemical thing for me and like i hate that so much because i i did enjoy it so much and it was like it was such a great thing for me like when like creatively or like it just to relax dude or like have a great time with my buddies dude and it's like i hate that i can't enjoy it anymore and because i see other people enjoy it you just got to power

through i know but it's like it gets to this point where like be around the right people the good outweighs the bad dude even if I'm with the right people though it's like it becomes like this thing or it's like I suffer from like really bad like really really really bad OCD like horrible like in what way okay so it's like this weird almost like not even like necessarily probably considered like a legit. I would guess newer would be considered form. And newer in medical terms because like the 80s is when like the first people were kind of exploring this type. It would be called like purely obsessional OCD, which is like, okay, so you think when I say OCD what do you think of washing your hands too many times touching things before you like you have to touch things three

times like straightening this like Howard Stern style OCD right like you're like everything's gonna be like this straight or like everything's gonna be right right right so my thing is pure OCD is right where there's these unanswered questions in your mind that can never be answered. And the ritual is trying to find an answer. Like what kind of questions? Okay. So it could be like let's say you are super religious, right? And you love – like at your core, like your belief in God and Jesus or any religion really is the centered part of your

life. Right. So one theme of it can be, you have a thought, everybody has crazy thoughts that slip through their head every day and they come and go. It's like somebody walking by you on the street, right? They walk by and they go, Oh, that was weird. I just had a thought about jumping into traffic. I don't want to. And I don't even, that thought doesn't even affect me in any way. It just comes and goes. It's like a weird thought that's a symptom of my brain. People like me become obsessed with the meaning of those thoughts and why they entered our brain when really they don't mean anything. So like someone that really loves God and that's a core part of their being is they would go, well, what if I hate God?

And that thought just it's just a it comes. It's gone as far as it can. That thought in your brain triggers a flight or fight response. So you get this mega adrenaline dump panic attack moment. So then that gives it validity to your brain. It says, this is something we need to be concerned about. So it starts sending that thought more and more and more. And the obsession becomes, why did I have that thought? What does it mean? Do I really hate this thing? And it essentially attacks the things that are

essentially the antithesis of the antithesis of the antithesis of who you actually are right so a lot of people have like uh like violent obsessions where they would have a thought of like stabbing somebody they don't want to stab anybody right really at the core of their being they're probably the most gentle soul in the world which is why the thought causes them anxiety. And so then they become obsessed. Like they get on their phone and they're like, why did I have this? Like, what are the symptoms of being a psychopath? Or why am I like this? Or what did I do this? Like, and so these themes, when you have them, they shift over time, but that period could be three,

four, five, six months at a time. And then you have another thought that's different, a different theme, and it just switches like that. And then you think back on the other one and you're like, that was so dumb. I can't believe I worried about that. Now I'm worried about what if I'm schizophrenic and I don't know. And you're obsessed with this thing. And all my buddies know this about me and I'm not afraid to talk about it or anything, but it's like people ask me sometimes, like my buddies would ask me, especially in high school is when it really kind of started for me. And I think they would go, you know, try to explain it to me. bad it is right is if like if someone like murdered my whole family I would rather than be free and live with what I had then go to jail that's how bad it is whoa and that's like it's not an exaggeration in any way shape or form I wouldn't wish it on anybody in the entire world

so it just comes in waves and you can't control it. Yeah, pretty much. I had a friend who was, he had that. And he would get these thoughts that he couldn't stop and he didn't know why and he would have panic attacks. And he's a comic and he was doing warm-up for the Cosby show. You know, warm-up is you're kind of like telling kind of mild jokes and you're explaining the scene and you're just keeping everybody engaged kind of mild jokes and you're explaining the scene and you're just

keeping everybody engaged because the process of filming a television show is pretty it's pretty arduous yeah there's a lot going on you know and sometimes there's downtime and during that downtime he would you know do kind of stand up for the crowd and work and he gets this thought in his head that says don't say the n-. That would be exactly the same thing. That would be exactly the same. He gets this thought and it's paralyzing. He's terrified he's going to say it. Right.

And he can't talk. Right. So his mouth is quivering. He's trying to tell his jokes, but he's not thinking at all about what he's saying so now he's bombing so he's bombing and the entire time his mind is screaming at him you're gonna say it you're gonna say it don't

say it don't say it and he just has a fucking full on panic attack while he's doing so that would be that would be like I've never had that particular theme like there is a theme of that like people who like your brains like you're about to say this thing don't say it right and then you're like why would i think that i don't want to say that or i don't

think that way or i'm that's not who i am and like that makes your brain send it more so it's like a broken circuit it's a broken circuit for sure and you like being afraid of it is what perpetuates it. So like the only answer to it is living with the uncertainty. Like, let's say I'm your friend in that moment. The only way you can talk yourself out of it is you go, you know what? I might say it. Really? Mm-hmm. That's how you talk yourself out? For sure. Like, I might jump in front of this truck? For sure.

I'd be like, you know what? I could jump in front of that truck if I want to. And that's how you get out of it? And I'm okay with it. I'm okay with that. I'm not going to, but if I wanted to, I could, and I might, and that's okay. But I can't even explain to people. Because it's so weird to imagine like having like if you had a thought

of like i'm gonna reach across this table and just deck you one and i don't want to and i'm afraid of that but if i go you know what i could and i have to be okay with that wow like it's almost like a paradox right you're almost tricking the disorder because then if you don't care about it anymore then your brain stops sending the thoughts because the thoughts are what's distressing yeah right the i like the thoughts coming in continually are what stresses you out because the more you have them you're thinking well that must be who i am i must be this violent criminal or i must be this must be that or whatever whatever it is i must not love my wife.

It's all these things that can never be answered, right? It's not like what's two plus two? Well, we all know that's four. These are all questions that really can – there is no answer to them at all. And marijuana triggers those? No, not really. I just think that like it can't be something that's like – no, and that's the thing is I'm not afraid of those thoughts at all.

Like they don't bother me at all. Because you become comfortable with the idea. Yeah. Like it took me a decade to get. Did you get counseling? Did you talk to people? A few times, not routinely, you know, but I think counseling is almost paradoxical, right? Because the more you focus on it.

Oh boy. is almost paradoxical right because the more you focus on it oh boy so it can become a weird slope because reassurance seeking from other people like if i told my best friend dude i just had this thought about shooting this guy like tell me i don't want to shoot this guy and then he goes dude you're not going to shoot that guy and i go oh god thank god then that you get addicted to the reassurance seeking which then makes the thoughts come more and more and more and more and more because you're giving them attention. You're giving them attention. You're giving them attention. And it's so strange, dude.

And it's like I know, dude, that there's so many people that struggle with it and no one would ever know. I could be having them right now and you'd have no clue. Wow. I could be totally checked out of this conversation. And it's almost like you're living two lives at the same time. It's freaky, dude. And it's like, I wouldn't wish it on anybody, dude. I wouldn't.

And it's terrible. How often does it happen? Now? Yeah. Almost never. Oh. But back then, I mean, i would attribute it to part i mean the majority i would attribute it to like me feeling out of college probably like it's like don't even you're gonna be a loser i don't

even want no no no like you don't even want to go out of the house because you're on the bus to school and you're thinking about killing people so that's why you dropped out of college i mean it attributed to my horrible grades, without a doubt. Because it was, like, it was all, like, I remember the new Scream movie had come out, like, when I was, like, 21. This was around the time I started playing guitar. And I was, my obsessions at that time were, like, violent obsessions. And I would, like, the Scream commercial would come on,

like, to promote the movie, and I would turn it off. Because I didn't even want to see, like, anything.'t even play like violent video games which is the wrong way that's the wrong thing because then avoidance and reassurance seeking are what make the thoughts more prevalent it's such a paradoxical thing it's so strange man does anything help it like if you go for Ike? It would, yeah. I mean, the more you can go out and not just – the more you hide from it. But do you get paralyzed by it sometimes? Yeah, for sure. Do you feel like you can't go and do anything?

No, for sure. But then it's the thing. It's like you have to now. If I were to have it now, you just have to continue on. And I just know now that if I have it, it will end. Have you ever got it when you're on stage yeah for sure oh yeah wow no doubt and it's like you feel so trapped man you want to talk about feeling trapped i mean you're in an arena with 20 000 people in there and you're like having a full-bl like, and you're singing the song and

it's like, nobody would even know that, you know? But like, that's, uh, yeah, that's a lonely feeling, dude. You know what I mean? But it's, I, you know, I, I, I, if anything, I want to, you know, I know that there's kids that are at home, like dealing with this right now. And like, or at home, like dealing with this right now. And like, I didn't even know what it was till I was probably 19 or 20 years old. And I'd had it since I was probably 12. And so you're just afraid, dude, you just don't, you can't explain it to your parents. They don't know what to do. They're like, I don't know what to do. Like, it's's just i can't imagine some kid at home going through this right now going through that right now and like it's just so sad dude to me to know that there's people that deal with it and it's like that it's such a it's and it's kind of obscure

right so it's not like this it's not depression right it's not like the hyped up, like, oh, I have depression or anxiety or whatever. I always wonder with people that have things like that that are also great artists. I always wonder. They run hand in hand, no doubt. There's something that contributes to the depth of your art. I think it's creativity, right? So creativity can be a really great thing and a really bad thing, in my opinion,

because I think the creative side of my brain that can create a song and a story from nothing, right? Like I could write a song about this, you know, bronze skull you have here if I really had to. Yeah. And I could create a story that was at least mildly compelling about it. But I can also do that with the thought of stabbing somebody that I don't want to have right and my brain just runs with it it's the same circuit

right like my brain runs with that creativeness and that can be a really detrimental thing to your mental health too you know did they ever try to give you medication for this in high school yeah what they give you um it would probably be now like i don't know i guess like maybe he's like zoloft maybe i'm not sure what the generic of that would be so it's a ssri yeah it's an ssri of some sort. And that, that, it just didn't hit it for me, you know, and that probably does work for a lot of people. It just never hit it for me. Did it stop the thoughts? No. That's the thing. I don't know. Like I wasn't on it long enough. You know, I was on it for a month and really then the terms of SSRIs, that's not even long enough for them to take effect, right?

Like, really, you have to take them for, what, two or three months, I think, for them to be fully going, right? So there is some sort of, like, serotonin, dopamine imbalance thing going on associated with it. And I just choose to not go that route. But I think if that route works for people, then they should do that. But I think if that route works for people then they should do that, but that just wasn't something that I was interested in because I feel like it would have numbed like The creative aspect the boss. Yeah, like anything that was left of like my positive life at that point Yeah, I've heard people talk about Zoloft

Specifically in that regard where they're just like it numbs them or nothing bothers them But nothing excites them either. They just yeah, it it's just kind of yeah i wouldn't want to do that and you know fuck that and i think i think in some ways i mean it's some probably sound nuts to say this but i think in some ways my my brain is kind of like that anyways now and i think that may be an effect of the disorder that I've had. Like nothing really gets me through the roof excited or down and through the roofs like in the dumps either. So you've like managed your mind to keep it in like a certain frequency. I think. And I feel like it's a subconscious like almost defense mechanism of like having gone through like just these different things of that. And that's bothered me a lot over the course of my career too, because I, sometimes I feel really

guilty about not feeling the way I feel like I should feel about certain things. Like in what way? Like if I win a big award or if I get a number one song or like those things are incredible and that's what I want to be doing like that's why I started doing this but like I don't get that serotonin like dopamine hit off those things like I feel like do you get that I watch my colleagues do and I wonder when I watch it like I watch someone win an, like male vocalist of the year or at the CMAs or whatever, and go up and accept the award. And they're like, almost in tears. Like I don't feel that way. And that makes me feel really like guilty. And like that something's like wrong with me, you know, as, as that makes sense when I'm saying, you saying you know like like I think you watch movies your

whole life and you feel like this is the way that people are supposed to feel about things and like like sometimes I've and like I appreciate the scope of what's going on and what it means to me and my team and like I'm so like insanely proud of all those accomplishments like insanely like this is why i like do this it's like to have achieved all of these great things but in that moment like it's not this like overflow of like joy and like tears and like there's a few times in my life i felt that's when i got married to my wife so when my son was born. That's it, dude. Like, and that's, and like, I know, and like, I feel like I miss out on a lot because of this disorder, like because of the way my brain works or the way that it's defended itself or something and there's probably a bunch of science that says i'm dumb or that i'm just like an emotionless weirdo but like

i like i feel like i've been robbed of that of all these things like and maybe they all just seem trivial because of all the shit that i dealt with for so long with it. Like the battles I fought inside my own head. I don't know. It's hard to really explain. It's hard to explain because the only way I would know is if I could somehow or another be in your brain. So I'm trying to imagine that. I can imagine it, but I can't imagine living with it like you've lived with it and the steps you've taken

to sort of get your place, your mind in this place. Yeah. Like I just I'm just it's like I'm so thankful, dude, to just not be living in that mindset. Do you have those positive thoughts when you create a new song? When you have. Yeah. Yeah. But it's. I love writing songs, i love it but maybe i mean i don't get those feelings either for big things it's very odd okay that makes me feel better yeah like it's very odd does that ever bother you in the sense of like do you do you watch people go up like let's say there's i'm not super familiar with the

like comedic we're like is there an award no thing like we don't want those awards right but like let's say there was right let's in a let's do like in the next reality over right like let's say there's the oscars for comedy Oscars, right? And you go up and it's like funniest son of a bitch in the world award. And that's the biggest thing in comedy, dude. You know what I mean? Like all your heroes won it. Yeah, I wouldn't be excited about that. Right.

But imagine being in the crowd. Let's say you won it. Let's say you won it, right? And let's say you won it last year. Yeah. And you're like, man, it just didn't feel like it was supposed to. And you're like, I love that I won that because I worked really hard and that's something I want to achieve. In your brain, you know that.

Yeah. And you appreciate the shit of it. You have it in your house. It's awesome. You're really proud of it. And the next year, somebody else wins it. And they get somebody else wins it and they get up dude and they're pouring the tears dude and they're like having this big like emotional outburst about winning this thing and how much it means to them and then you're going why didn't I do that why

why didn't I feel that like rush like Was I robbed of that rush of emotion? I often wonder that about myself. When I see my colleagues win things that I've even won, and they can barely even talk to get through the tears, and I'm up there like, hey, man, this is so great. I love my wife and my team, and everything's great. Thank you. Does that just mean I'm a different guy?

Yeah, you're just a different guy. But that's the things I wonder, dude, about that kind of stuff. Yeah, I don't get excited about things like that. I don't get excited about winning things. I don't get excited about that kind of stuff. Like a great show, like even like a sellout Madison Square Garden standing ovation, I'm like, that's great. Right.

But I don't think about it like these emotional big moments. My focus is always on the thing I'm doing. And that's what's important. And it's supposed to work. You worked hard to make it work. Then you did it. Good. Get back to work.

That's my mind. My mind is like, don't get all fucking excited about the fact that this was great. Don't get stupid. Go right back to work that's my mind my mind is like don't right don't get all fucking excited about the fact that this was great right don't get stupid go right back to work so my mind is always no matter what happens whatever accomplishments my mind is always focused only on the work and we're very similar then man yeah then that's but i think it's a creative thing i think so too because what i get excited about like i have this new bit that i wrote yesterday and i did it last night and it killed and i'm like oh i got something i got something i got like a seed so for me like uh bits are seeds and those seeds are like a divine gift of the universe right like whatever it is that creates creativity whatever it is it creates an

idea that that enters into your mind and now you can give life to. And then you become obsessed with it. That's what I get excited about. I get excited about these moments. And I get excited about when they work. I get excited about making. But it's never excited for me. It's never.

I'm never like. I feel that. I'm the man. I did it. Never. I feel that. I never feel that. And I feel like that because that's wasted energy and

I feel like that kind of celebrating is like come on man you know what the fuck you're doing you've been doing this forever like you this is what you do like you yeah it's a great show that's fun it's nice to have a great show but that's not what's important what's important is the thing this fucking untold how many people million people that are into what you're doing like you what you got to do is get back to work Like I have a massive responsibility can continue to create and to do the best I can whether it's with Podcasting or whether it's with doing stand-up or whether it's doing UFC commentary. I have like this massive responsibility To just just do the best I can so that's all I think about is like the thing that I can control. You become obsessed with the result as in the sense of like.

The process and the result. Right. And I'm the same way, dude. Like I just. Okay. So let me ask you this. I'm interested. So you're obsessed with the result, right?

So you go up, you do your bit last night, and it fucking crushes, dude. It slams. You love it, right? Everybody loves it. And you're like, I got something. Yeah. Are you in – so after that ends and you're sitting in the green room and let's say – or you finally get home and you're by yourself.

and let's say, or you finally get home and you're by yourself, what is the thing that, that keeps you shoving the, shoving the needle in your arm, dude? Like what, is it the reaction and knowing that I've done it? I did it again. I did the joke. I got the joke. That's the joke. No, it's not. It's almost not me.

Right. It's the thing. It's like, I know that i'm the person who's in front of the keyboard who came up with these ideas and who write it down wrote it on my phone and i'm the dude who's pacing around the green room trying to figure out which way to set it up and should i chop this part out or let me just get the bullet points and then just talk to these people and tell them what i think about this thing and the comedy is going to come out of that yeah it's just that it's never like me it's always it's always it's about focused on the thing and it's res but it's the fact that it resonates with

someone else yes on on such a grand scale if it resonates with me it'll resonate with someone else that's that's what I found if as long as I'm honest about my approach and as long as I'm like, what the fuck? Like, if I think it's funny and I start thinking, like, about what's funny about it, then the thing is just figuring out a way to get that into people's minds the smoothest, cleanest, funniest, sneakiest way. Right. You know, and it's a process so the process is what's very exciting because the beginning is usually a little clunky because you're not exactly sure how you're going to say it and maybe i said it right last night but i forgot how to say it right tonight and i fucked it up and then i have to live with that and then the next day i have to start all

over again and then i go over the notes and I go over the fucking recordings and I try to figure out but it's always the thing it's never it's never like look what I did I fucking did I'm crying right zero right it's zero right yeah like even when I film specials even if I film a Netflix special it fucking kills I'm like okay we did it and then when I put it out I stay offline I don't read reviews i'm like i just got to keep moving yeah keep concentrating on this thing that i'm doing yeah that makes that makes me feel great because i i feel i feel that same way man but there's nothing wrong with freaking out too there's nothing wrong with going up there and crying and no this is an amazing moment for you and you've worked so hard for that i just think every

individual creative person has a unique way of addressing ideas and the thing that you're in love with. And with you, the thing you're in love with is music. And you address that music and clearly it's working. Your process creates amazing songs. So there's something about this way you think where you don't get excited about things that keeps you in that moment and i think you're thinking about it as a negative but i think it's a superpower i really do and i think it's one of the reasons why your songs are so good i think it's a part of your mind and it's it's just like you have this unique gift of your mind it's a unique mind

there's no one else like you you are you and that that's that's what's coming out and that's why that's why like the the award shows are bullshit all these people clapping on cue and like why would i get excited about it's the same thing has already happened the music is affected when people are listening to one of your songs in their car and they start crying that's what's up that's the award that's the fucking award, man. And you're not going to be there for that. No doubt. You're not even going to be there for that.

Yeah. The beauty of it is when you are there for that is at a show, right? Yeah. Like if you get that one person out of 60,000 or whatever now that we're doing these stadiums, it's like that makes it to the front row. Yeah. And they want to hear this one song because it means so much to them and you play it and you see them dude i've had many many many nights where it's

like i have one song in particular that's called even though i'm leaving and it's a song um that essentially starts out with like a dad talking to his son saying like, oh man, like you're scared of the, I know there's not any monsters under the bed kind of thing. And like, I'm just down the hall, you know, even though I'm leaving, I'm not going nowhere. Right. And the next verse is then it's the son and he's going off to war. Right. And the hook changes to, you know, even though you're leaving, I'm not going nowhere. You know, I'll be here when you get back kind of thing and then the last verse is the dad passing away and it's like

hey man like even though I'm leaving I'm not going anywhere you know and like there's been many nights where like you see that person that's connected with that like that's lost their dad right and they're there and you're they're right in your face man and they that, like that's lost their dad. Right. And they're there and you're, they're right in your face, man. And they're just like, there's three or four people on them just, you know, and they're just weeping dude. I'm uncontrollably. And it's like, it's powerful, dude. I mean, that stuff is like there, I mean, that's powerful stuff, man. And that's the, that's, that's the reason you do it. That's it. That's why you do it. That's why you don't get excited about awards, man. Yeah.

There's nothing wrong with you. Because there's nothing that speaks to me like that does. But that's also why it's so good, man. That's why it's so good. The reason why you have this thought process behind it is the end result. Yeah. It's just you want to make people feel something yeah you know I mean like yeah like you want to make them yeah feel this yeah whether it's a cathartic thing

or it's like you know like even songs that maybe are mega sad it's like there's something cathartic about back like basking in sadness yeah Yeah. I think too sometimes like. Very, something very attractive. Right. Like people, it's like sometimes you hear like, well, you know, pull yourself out of it kind of thing. But like I think there's an, that's an important part of the some sort of process of life is if you get

your heart broken or a loved one passes away like that. Yeah. Inherent sadness is like part of the process right and it's like that's such a powerful like human emotion to me like it's everyone yeah yeah to all the people who feel yeah it's that's why people love those sad songs i mean it's not that they want to be sad they don't want to listen to some oh i'm too happy today let me listen to luke combs and get right start crying right but it's like they want to hear this put this song on that so it's almost like reaffirming this feeling you know it just resonates with human emotion and feeling and thought and the appreciation of people when they are there you know that's part of the sorrow is

the the back side of it is the appreciation of the people that are in your life that you love. It's like you don't feel one without the other. It's like the two of them, they go hand in hand. They're the yin and the yang of the world. I don't think there's anything wrong with your thought process in regards to that at all. I really don't. I don't think you're robbing yourself of anything. I don't.

I think you're getting the juice out of the right spots. That's good. That makes me feel good man because i i worry about that i i you know i think about that a lot and that's not you know that's not something i brought up to to a lot of folks really almost ever you know but i often i wonder that a lot you know i spent a lot of time worrying about that the more crazy things happen to me the more they're like steady like a normal thing it. It's a base level. It's like everything stays normal. But it's not that then it's like I worry.

It's like, well, it's not. I don't want this to be expected either. It's not expected. It's just you're like you're comfortable with it, right? Yeah. You're just like, all right, this is what I'm doing. Like this is the kind of level of stuff I'm doing. Like talking about planning a stadium tour is like a normal thing.

Yeah, it's normal. But it is normal it's normal for you yeah what's normal for you is like mind-blowing for 21 year old luke to imagine that one day you'd be that guy yeah no doubt doing a fucking stadium tour it's like it's crazy man it's like not even like, just doesn't even seem like possible. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, because it's not normally. That's why it's so crazy to you. But that's, you have the right approach. Because if you were like, yeah, I'm the fucking man.

I'm out here doing a fucking stadium tour. I'm the fucking man. Right. That's like the, that's the opposite of your creative process. That's the opposite of the frequency that your mind is on when it's making these things that resonate with people's real feelings i just try to stay so rooted in like humility like that's been such a huge part of like i think like like how me and my whole team have like gotten where we are is like like like, I just want people to know like how

like grateful I am for all of it. Right. It's like, it's not like I am 1% of the, of the puzzle, dude. You know what I mean? Like I'm the guy that gets to sit in here and talk with you, but the 99% of everything else that's going on is like work that's done by someone else other than me dude like and i feel like that whole part of the process is like lost in like the idea of like celebrity right it's like me and you are just we're one guy but we're a we're we may be maybe we're a bigger cog in the wheel right but you take that one cog out or any cog out and it doesn't work yes right it's like there's a team and i'm sure you have a team of folks that yeah propel your success because there's not enough time in 10 lives to do all the things that's

necessary for your stuff to go on or my stuff to go on. Like there's so many folks involved in that, you know, and like, I'm just, I'm really grateful for like having a like awesome group of people to like work with that, like, don't just tell me yes to everything and like, that are willing to challenge me on things and like say, Hey man, yes to everything and like that are willing to challenge me on things and like say hey man is this the right decision or i don't love this song or like why would we do this thing or like why don't we think about this like i've always tried to keep it this open thing of like me and like people that work with me can talk about things and just have discussions that a lot of people i think sometimes lose that they become so shielded in the idea of celebrity which is like they got a security guy so nobody

on their team like they might not even know this guy that works for them at all they don't even know that guy's name and he's worked for him for five or six years at all doesn't even know him you know and like to me it's like i can't say we're all best friends dude we're not all coming over to my house and having an oyster roast or something you know what i mean but like i'm friendly with everybody that's out on the road with me and like i want people to know that like i'm approachable you know like we can talk about something. Like I think that's so crucially important to like the overall success of the thing. Because if I show up at a venue, the only impression that 99% of the people working in that venue will get of me is someone that works for me.

Right. So if everyone on my team is rude, then what are they going to think about me? Of course. They're going to go, well, this guy must be a jerk, dude. But this attitude that you have though is why you're,

why people love you. I mean, it's why it resonates like this, to keep from being captured by celebrity and stardom. Because a lot of people do because it's a shield. You put that shield up to shield you from the the thoughts of uncertainty and insecurity and whether or not you're worthy and whether or not you can keep doing it you know with a lot of people it's like you start doing but can i keep

doing it do i still have it like good what are my new songs any good are my new jokes any good it's the same kind of thing and it's you're just thinking about it the right way, but it's not something that anybody could teach you because nobody gets to be famous. It's a small, tiny sliver of the population. And then to be famous for doing something that resonates with people and, like, they'll worship you. They'll fucking listen to your song 100 times in a row.

I mean, that's a thing that no one is going to be able to explain to you. Cause they like, you could talk to a psychologist about it and they're dealing with, you know, theory. They don't, they've never experienced that. They don't know what it's like to stand on stage in front of 60,000 people. And only you do very few people do. And it's up to you because you are the guy that's holding the microphone and playing the music. You are the guy that has to navigate that road and And you're doing it, I think, the right way. The way you're handling it with humility and the way you're handling it with genuine appreciation and just being a real person, you can keep that going. Guys have kept that going. And that's actually something that's

rewarded in country music, which I think is great. Because in some styles of music, it's like rewarded that you become untouchable. You become this unapproachable, untouchable, don't make eye contact, he's a genius, he's going to walk into the room and everybody get out of the way and if he picks up the guitar, everybody stop talking. That kind of psycho thinking, that can pollute your mind. No doubt. And people get very captured by that.

And we've seen it many, many, many, many times with rock stars, with movie stars. It's just the thing that you have given into is so overwhelmingly odd and so few people experience, and it just does not resonate with any normal human emotions. It's so strange that everybody knows who you are and you don't know who they are and you just, this is the life you live, but it's up to you because you're the rare traveler

that's gone down that road that far, the rare one. It's up to you to navigate that road. And if you can do it, a young artist can also see you do it. For sure. And they can go, oh, well, look how fucking Sturgill Simpson's so cool. Yeah. And he's fucking huge. Like, how do I stay cool? Right.

Like, I got, that's what I aspire to. I don't aspire to be in a diva and have everybody throw rose petals at my feet. Right. I aspire to be that cool motherfucker that can hang out with the sound guy. For sure, dude. And is cracking jokes with the bus driver someone who's just a normal person who just by some strange circumstance the rarest of rare moments in life you wind up being that person yeah i just think about it's like i can't

tell you like how many beers i shotgunned in college, and now I can shotgun a beer and 50,000 or 60,000 people are stoked about it. I'm like, that's awesome, dude. That's pretty awesome. I did seven or eight of these a night for years, dude. You know, years. I might do one. I heard you went to the bathroom when I was talking about it.

That's what got me thinking about shotgunning. Yeah, shotgun. I might do one. Go ahead, bro. We got the fucking freedom funnels here. I might just do one straight out of the can. Old school? You need a knife?

Yeah, I'll start it, though, this way. Oh, you with teeth? Jesus Christ. I always start it that way, right? I feel like that's for good effect, you know? That was a two-hole word on that one. I got two teeth through that bad boy old school yeah it's an art form you know I mean it's not a speed this is not a speed thing right

it's like it is with the funnel the freedom funnel it goes right to your brain do you think you could freedom funnel faster and I could shock on one I wouldn't bet a lot of money on that. I mean, it's possible, I think. For sure. There's only one way to find out, sir. That's true. America! Fuck yeah! Coming to save the motherfucking day, yeah.

That should be our national anthem. You gotta close it because you opened it. Oh, okay. Why, is that the rule? Yeah, that's like a... When someone closes it or opens it, they have to close it? Oh yeah, dude, that's big rule Fuck yeah

Ready? Three, two, one Yeah, you beat me by a solid three seconds Impressively fast You beat me by a Tesla zero to sixty Oh my goodness That was good I don't even know how you did that Three seconds. Impressively fast. You beat me by a Tesla zero to 60. Oh, my goodness. That was good.

I don't even know how you did that. It's like college. It feels like college. You just opened it up and it went down. Yeah. So years of... What is the deal with closing a knife? How come you have to... I don't know.

I just always heard that. Like, if you open it, you got to be the person that closes it. It's like bad luck, right? Really? I've always heard that, at least. There's a problem with those bad luck things. They get in your head and then you think that's the truth. It's like the guys that flip the cigarette around.

When they open a pack of cigarettes, they flip the first one they touch upside down. You heard of that? To keep from getting cancer? I don't know. It's called a lucky. I don't know why. Right. But you flip it upside down and then that's the last one you smoke out of the pack. Oh, I didn't know why Right But you flip it You flip it upside down And then that's the last one

You smoke out of the pack Oh I didn't know that It's another like Like weird superstition Thing I'm sure there's a bunch of those I'm sure there's a bunch of those

There's a rabbit hole Of like those things That people could go down Yeah those things are fucking weird The things that people just decide And then they have to do it And you get obsessed with it You have to wear your lucky watch

You have to Yeah Dude they're like you know what has the most of that's dude is a baseball dude oh yeah most superstition stuff in it like crusty socks dude grody stuff dude you know what i was excited to ask you about when i got in here is i'm a huge ufc guy huge and i just i don't even know if I have like what questions I would even have I could do three hours just on that like I'm just I've just been such a fan of it for so long like since like back to high school you know like I probably got into it like obviously like I'm not oog dude I'm not

like Gracie UFC one guy like I was too young when that was going on but I was like Chuck Tito that was like when I started I'm hooked like Chuck was the guy for me that got me hooked I'm like this guy is the guy

he was the guy that launched the UFC really for him as the biggest star for him because he was such a destroyer, he was just like seek and destroy style. Yeah. He was so exciting. Every one of his fights was a fucking chaotic experience. It was, man. And just like the him and Randy trilogy, dude, the him and Tito thing, it was like those were the and i remember watching like like stephen bonner

forrest griffin like that was just a war bloodbath like and i just became like obsessed i was like obsessed with it dude like it's so it's just so primal dude that i love i just couldn't love it anymore man like i'm just been to a live event i have not oh you gotta go i want to so tell me when tell me where you want to go we'll hook it up so bad dude okay like okay so here's me out what okay what's the what's the next title fight that i you think i should see in person well i would say this weekend but it's in london leon edwards versus kamaru usman the rematch that fight was crazy, dude. One minute to go. Leon launches the greatest head kick of all time. Dude, the way he feinted that punch, dude, to get him to duck into it.

Dude, I remember screaming. We were at, I was at. Look at this fight card, too. Justin Gaethje versus Rafael Fazeev. Rafael Fazeev is a fucking assassin. That is going to be a wild fight. That is going to be a wild fight. That is going to be a wild fight. Oh, man.

I'm just eat up, dude. Yeah. That fight, Leon Edwards and Kamaru Usman, though, that's for legacy. I mean, Usman is, in my mind, up until that fight, he's the greatest welterweight of all time. And Leon Edwards lands that one head kick. You're going over gsp yeah i think i think if they fought that crushes me i just think the the level of competition he faces

higher you think so yeah but it's just because gsp was so good he raised the the bar he raised it to the level it's at now yes right but i think if you look at GSP's victories, I mean, he beat some very good guys. But I think the guys Kamaru Usman beat, Colby Covington, Jorge Masvidal, Tyron Woodley, I think they're better. You think Masvidal's GSP level? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

I think if Masvidal was around during that time, he would be dangerous for everybody. I think he's on another level. But I think everyone's on another level but i think everyone's on another level now i think like like the masvidal that knocked out ben askren that was one of the craftiest fucking moves everyone's ever done for sure man he ran out he went sideways and then ran straight out of man askren's instincts kicked in and he need him into the dark lands oh man just one shot Just one shot. Boom. Into the shadow realm. I mean, Masvidal, I mean, he knocked out Eve Edwards with a fucking head kick back in the day. He's a killer, dude.

No doubt. He's a fucking assassin. He's a killer, dude. No doubt. He's an assassin. He had bare knuckle fights in the Kimbo Slice days. The Kimbo Slice era, dude. The YouTube video era.

Masvidal's a gangster. The Kimbo Slice era, dude. The YouTube video era. Masvidal's a gangster. And he lost to Colby Covington, but I feel like Colby Covington, if it wasn't for Kamaru Usman, would be the welterweight champion of the world. I think Colby's that fucking good. He's like, just Usman was so good.

Up until that Leon Edwards head kick, so good. Dude, it was like, and I can agree with you, watching, like, and watching those later, like, after, like, so the last fight GSP lost, right? That's Sarah, right? Mm-hmm. So he lost Sarah and then avenges the Sarah. He should have lost to Johnny Hendricks in a lot of people's eyes. You think so? Yeah, before he retired. A lot of people thought that was not a just decision.

I'd have to go back and rewatch it to see if I agree. But, you know, it was like the amount of fights that he had, the stress behind it. Now, don't get me wrong. He's absolutely one of the all-time greats. Yeah. One of the all-time greats. I'm not looking at it like saying he wasn't as good as kamaru usman i'm

saying what he did was not as impressive as what usman did with the competition yes if you look at the fact that you know he got armbarred by matt hughes when matt was in his prime he got knocked out by matt sarah you know it's it's and those are those are you know matt sarah was a murderous puncher and he took that guy for granted yeah and matt matt fucking caught him and matt could do that to anybody and then eventually they had a rematch and he beat matt up in front of the fans in canada and it was an insane event like he's an all-time great and i love him to death. But I feel like if I look at the level of competition he faced and the level of competition Kamaru faced and what Kamaru did to those people, you got to understand, Kamaru, when

he was coming up, no one would speak his name. He was the boogeyman. Right. Because nobody wanted to fight him. Nobody wanted to fight him when he was coming up. Everybody would say, you know, give me this guy and give me that guy. Right, and they wouldn't say anything about him. Nobody was saying Kamaru Usman because he was smashing people.

And he was doing it with destroyed knees. Yeah. That guy's mind is so strong. Yeah. His fucking knees are so bad, he goes downstairs backwards. Yeah. Let me ask you something that is has been intriguing to me and this is a fan who i like i i would say i'm above casual fan

but below expert knowledge fan right so i'm not a guy that watches every five pay-per-view i'm a guy that buys every pay-per-view i watch a lot of the you know in between deals because i enjoy it right but i'm not a guy who's like oh dude he's you know the way he got into that darce is like i can do some of that stuff but i'm not expert level so and i'm interested to hear your take and this is as a fan who doesn't know these guys at all and has nothing against them. But I remember, and I think in my mind is undeniably the GOAT, as again, just above casual fan, Jon Jones. Jon Jones is the GOAT. He's the GOAT. Now it's undeniable.

It's undeniable. There was all this debate until he submitted Cyril Ghosn and became the heavyweight champion. No one can fuck with that. Smashed him, bro. Smashed him. And Cyril looked kind of un heavyweight champion. No one can fuck with that. Smashed him, bro. Smashed him. And Cyril looked kind of unbeatable up until the Francis fight. Well, the Francis fight exposed one aspect of his game that you're never going to beat John in, and that's the wrestling.

And then everybody said, well, he didn't know that Francis was going to wrestle him, given. Francis is not the caliber of wrestler, or even in the realm of John Jones. John Jones has been wrestling since he was 12 years old. He took down Daniel Cormier, who's an Olympic-level wrestler. There is not a guy in the world that can say that you could start wrestling at 29 years old. I mean, you'd have to be the freakiest of freak athletes to be able to compete with that guy to start wrestling when Cyril Ghosn started wrestling. The gap is just too wide to cross. Right. So I think what I was thinking is, and when I bring up Jon Jones, is I remember

the first Jon Jones fight I watched was when he got DQ'd against Matt Hamill. Okay. From the 12 to 6 elbows yeah right that was my first experience with him the next thing i feel like i remember and i may have seen some of his fights in between then but is when he like beat up this guy that was like trying to rob this lady like the night of that was the day he fought fight. That was the day he fought for the title. Right. The day he fought for the title, he chased down a guy who robbed someone and tackled him and held him until the cops came.

Right. And then when he fought Shogun, it became the youngest ever UFC champion. Yep. So here's where I'm getting at. And this is going to be just kind of, I'm interested in your take on this because I watched it happen with Jon Jones and I feel like I watched it happen with Kamaru as well, where it was like Jon and Kamaru as they came up.

Right. It's like Jon does this thing where he stops this robber and he wins the belt. He beats Shogun, who is this kind of like, you know, him and Lyoto were these kind of like unfigureoutable guys to me as a fan at that time. Right. Like guys like how do you beat Lyoto Machida? You can't because you can't even touch the guy right at that time. And they were like inherently these like good guys that everybody was rooting for. And then both of them became these like epically long reign champions that then became sort of like villains. Kamaru was never a villain. I feel like he is.

Really? To me as a fan, again, who doesn't know anything. And maybe it's the, it comes back to maybe the celebrity like ego thing, like to the camera as a fan. Again, I've never met the guy. He's probably great. But just as a cash watcher, I went from going, I'm rooting for this guy, to then it be like the way he talks about himself. And I feel like Jon Jones was the same way to me,

is they became this like really like, and then Jon got in all this kind of like turmoil-y stuff. Well, I don't think you can compare the two. And here's two reasons why. One, have you ever seen Kamaru talk? Like, have you ever seen Kamaru on my podcast? He's one of the nicest, most down-to-earth, friendly, smiley, fun guys.

There's, what you're seeing is Kamaru, the destroyer. The dog. The dog is ready to go to war. 100%. That's the difference. And that's what I was trying to ask. He's signaling to all the other people, I'm going to smash you. That's what he's signaling. And that's what I think I was asking.

Is that all just perceived by me? Or is that... That's part me or is that, yeah. You know what I mean? That's part of the fun of being a fan. Sure. You know, deciding what you like and what you don't like and personalities that you

root for and personalities you root against. And sometimes you root against a guy and he wins you over cause he's so goddamn good. You're like, I wanted that motherfucker to lose, but he's the fucking greatest. Yeah. John is very different than Camaro.

John is what I would describe is There's human beings that Have different temperament and different minds and different mentality and a ruthless competitive drive That's almost terrifying to the ordinary person. That's John Jones. John Jones is a bad guy Who's trying to be a good guy. But that guy, if we were living a thousand years ago, he would be on a horse with the biggest battle ax waiting in the back, jacking heads off, and everybody would be running. And those people have always existed.

These dominators have always existed. But John is like a genuinely sensitive intelligent guy Who's trying to do the right thing, but he's a fucking conqueror. He's a fucking conqueror That's that's that's the thing that's inside of him that leads him to be the goat and without that You don't get there You don't if you're you don't get that you don't get a Mike Tyson without that You don't get a Muhammad Ali without that you don't get a Marvin Hagler without that you don't if you're you don't get that you don't get a mike tyson without that you don't get a muhammad ali without that you don't get a marvin hagler without that you don't get a you don't get

that that there's a thing inside some people that is a driving force that allows them to overcome the greatest around them it's a michael jordan it's a hundred percent there's a there's a Michael Jordan. 100%. There's a thing, man. Tom Brady. And those motherfuckers are hated. They're always hated. For sure. Because you have to hate them because you can't beat them. It's the 260-inch deer, dude. Yeah.

Because me and my buddies were talking. They're like, man, that's not the deer of a lifetime. That's the deer of 10 lifetimes. Yeah. Most people will never see that. Right. But it's even more than that because you can just accidentally stumble across the deer of a lifetime. You can't accidentally beat Jon Jones.

There's a thing about... So he's goad over Khabib. He's goad over everybody now. Khabib's too? Yeah, Khabib is in the conversation, but Mighty Mouse is in that conversation too. Mighty Mouse, to me, if you want to look at like a technical expression

of the greatness of martial arts, he's as good as anybody's ever done it. When Mighty Mouse was the flyweight champion. And the only problem is, besides Cejudo and a couple other guys like Benavidez, he was not dealing with guys that were of the caliber of the guys that Jon Jones was facing. Jon Jones was facing Gustafsson, Glover Teixeira.

He was facing Daniel Cormier. He was facing the elite of the elite. And he never fucking lost even when he was doing coke and he wasn't even training. That's how goddamn good Jon Jones is. Right. And when Jon Jones talks about fights, though, when I had him on the podcast, one of the things that he talked about, some people don't really watch tape or they only watch a little bit. They let their coaches do the work.

Jon Jones studies everyone. He studies their tendencies. He gets in his mind how when you throw that left kick, you make this little step with your right foot. You make this little step with your right foot. You might do this thing when you shoot for a takedown where you keep your head on one side every time. You might do this thing when someone throws a right hand, you always lean to the left. John Jones picked up that tendency,

and that's how he knocked out Daniel Cormier. He knew Daniel Cormier has a tendency to duck towards his right side because he goes for that single on the left leg and John caught him with the perfect head kick But it wasn't by an accident. He fucking he set that up He set it up just like Leon Edwards set up that head kick on Kamaru there's a there's a beauty of that that's just man in the middle of chaos and anxiety and fear and and the man, in the middle of chaos and anxiety and fear and the fucking fog of war,

you figure out a way to connect with this thing that you saw in tape and in training and in preparation. So with John, it's not an accident that he's the GOAT. Even with his lack of training, even with his... It's just like he's so fucking talented that he almost needs another John Jones to make him compete the way he would make him train the way a lot of these other guys do.

He's so good, he can beat those guys without being challenged by someone like him. Because Jon Jones has never faced a Jon Jones. Right. True. That's what's crazy. He's that fucking talented. And so to be a GOAT, you need all of those things. It's like sometimes a talent is so great that even the fact that they don't work as hard,

they're still better than everybody. That's John. That's why John's so good. And he's still, I mean, you saw in his, he's still in his prime. He's still, I mean, you saw in his, he's still in his prime. The way he fought three years out and he fights a heavyweight who's a 240 pound ripped heavyweight. He's never fought a guy who can move like that and strike like that at heavyweight. And he just shut all that shit down. Dude, that video of him training a couple weeks ago where he throws that, his training

part. Yeah, Walt Harris. I was like, oh Lord. I was like, he is going to demolish this guy dude yeah i was up until the day of the fight i was like i don't know i was with uh cam haynes and my buddy tommy jr and we were talking about it i was like i don't know man i mean i mean he had a hard time with dominic reyes and dominic reyes is like not nearly the striker that cyril gone is and i was likeyes is like not nearly the striker that Cyril Ghosn is.

And I was like, and then the day of the fight, I don't know what it is, but I think John's going to run right through this dude. I just, I just, the day of the fight, I just had this feeling. I just have a feeling that John is just going to express his greatness tonight. Like all those years out, all the doubts, all the chaos, all the personal problems and the drugs and the partying and all the mess. I think this is going to bring out the very best in John. Because I think guys like him, I think one of the things that was happening with the Dominic Reyes fight and the first Alexander Gustafson fight, I think he was so dominant that he was like playing with his food. I don't think he was like fully engaged in the fear of facing these men.

It's like a cat just pawing at the thing. I don't think they presented the challenge that he requires to reach the level that we know he's capable of reaching. But I think Cyril Gunn did provide that challenge. And I think he knew that going up to heavyweight and winning the title and just winning it easily the way he did, all debates are off. You think he goes back down to light and tries to win that? No, if he did, he would win it. Right, for sure.

But you know what? Let me tell you something, man. Jamal Hill is no fucking joke. Jamal Hill, the way he pieced up Glover Teixeira, I was like, oh my God. The way he grappled with him. Jamal Hill might be the fucking man at light heavyweight. And if John went down, that might be a wild-ass fight.

That might be a wild fight. But I think John is done with the starving himself and depleting his body to make 205. And now that he's the heavyweight champion, I think he beats all the best heavyweights that are available. And then he goes down in history as number one. And good luck catching up. Who's he fighting next, Stipe? Stipe. July.

You should go. Yeah, I love Stipe too, man. Can you make it? Probably. Where's it at? Vegas? That's Vegas. Yeah, that's the international fight weekend,

and that's the headline fight. That's going to be. As long as someone doesn't get injured, they make the deal. Yeah, T-Mobile Arena, let's fucking go, July 8th. Now, is this TBD versus TBD? Like they haven't decided yet? They just haven't announced it yet. But it's online, isn't it?

I don't know. I saw it on a bunch of web, but I just read some sketchy websites. Does that get me? All speculative. I would imagine that if I was the UFC, that is the biggest fight you could make. There's two events, there's three events that are like the biggest fights the UFC can make. Madison Square Garden, that's the biggest fight the UFC can make. And then there's International Fight Weekend.

Those are the biggest fights the UFC can make. And then there's the December one right before New Year's. That's generally the three biggest cards the UFC can make. Like multiple championship fights. So if John and Stipe, I mean, that qualifies as... You know, Stipe, if you look at his record, you look at what he was able to do, he's the most successful heavyweight of all time. He defended the title more than anybody.

He's the first guy to beat Francis. You know stipe he's the fucking man and he's a legit bona fide heavyweight never been a light heavyweight ever i think stipe and john is an amazing it's you know stipe's it's it's towards the end for stipe but he's still a great fighter and he's still and he's also had a lot of time off since the francis loss which is great rest up heal up and he put on a great fighter and he's also had a lot of time off since the Francis loss which is great rest up, heal up and he put on a lot of weight too, he put on a lot of mass he's like 250 now really? yeah he felt like he was too small

for the Ngannou rematch he thought he needed cardio because he beat him with cardio in the first fight he beat him with his durability because he got caught with some big shots and then took him down and then out worked like Francis went all out to try to knock steep a out And when he couldn't steep a dominated them, and it was one of the best like victories of steep a's illustrious career, but I think that

Going into the second fight he had that sort of same approach But this time he reached a patient Francis this timeis was like just looking to just nuke him and he wasn't just running at him he was using technique and he was he was just far more evolved as a fighter than he was the first time they fought and francis just fucking annihilated him and you know but the thing is like stipe came into that fight light and i think he he was in, like, the 230s, if I remember correctly, maybe 240 at the most. And he decided, you know what, I've got to bulk up. I've got to get bigger.

And he got bigger for this Jon Jones fight. But I think he was trying to fight anybody. He was trying to fight Francis again. He was trying to fight Cyril. He'll fight anybody. And for whatever reason, they weren't able to make the right fight for Stipe. But I think overall for his own like health and to rebound from that knockout loss this is good because you don't want a guy getting ko'd in his late 30s and

then fighting again three months later right you know especially a heavyweight that got ko'd by francis in a brutal way yeah so i think it's good that he's had this time off and i'm excited about the fight. He's like Chandler McGregor. Ooh, that's chaos. If that happens, the thing is, like, Conor hasn't even gotten into the USADA testing pool. Interesting.

Yeah, because, like, Conor broke his leg. Here's what John said a couple days ago. More than likely felt like that was kind of sprung on me, need to talk with my team UFC and come up with a plan. Asked about fighting. International Fight Week. Yeah. Well, that's, listen, this is called negotiation.

This is something, you know? That's what you do. You're like, maybe I'll fight. Maybe I won't. And people have to like me. Dana also said that he thinks John might retire after that fight. After the Stipe fight? He may.

Yeah, so I'm seeing, oh, not there. He may. I lost it. I mean, he's going to make a fucking boatload of money for that fight. Wouldn't be shocked. Wouldn't be shocked, yeah. Yeah, I feel like Chandler. Chandler McGregor would be electric to see.

Oh, yeah. For sure. If it happens. I love that Chandler's just all or nothing, man. I love that about him. Chandler's a fucking animal. Yeah. He's an animal.

And he's a very good wrestler. He could fight in a very different way if he chose to. Yeah, I feel like his... But he fights for fans. Yeah, like I feel like his last two fights, man, he... The problem is... The title fight was... If you fight in that style, though,

if you fight in that style against Conor, you're coming straight forward towards Conor, that is Conor's wheelhouse. Conor's one of the greatest counterstrikers that's ever fought in the UFC. If you look at his fight with Eddie Alvarez, you look at his knockout victory over Jose Aldo, if you come at Conor and you give him a chance

to time you, especially in the early rounds, he is fucking lethal. He's so good at, he's so explosive and fast and, you know, I mean, mean who knows the thing is like the usada testing pool i don't want to harp on this too much but this is a giant issue for multiple reasons here's one let's just speculate let's speculate he got out of the usada testing pool this is what i would imagine if i was a a pro athlete at connor's level and i broke my leg you need help.

Okay? You're not just going to heal off that eating mangoes and fucking eating clean. You need some help. You know, I would say I would want that person to take something. You would have to consult with an expert sports medicine doctor who would tell you, you want peptides, you want growth hormone, you want this, you want that. You want all these things you can't take when you're in usada you want testosterone you want all these things and you look at connor after that leg break he got fucking jacked ripped just gigantic like 200 plus pounds it looks like just huge fucking shoulders and that's generally not

the result of natural hormones sure that's generally the result result of natural hormones. That's generally the result of exogenous hormone use. I don't know if that's true. This is a lot of people are speculating, not just me. And then when you look at the USADA testing pool and the fact that he's not in it, that also comes into it. So now here's the thing. You're in your 30s, you're 35 or whatever Connor is, 34,

and you've disrupted your hormones with exogenous hormones now your body has to get back to developing its own hormones and generally speaking when people take steroids and i'm not saying you took steroids but generally speaking if someone takes steroids say if you take steroids for six months you need a year to bounce back to normal hormone levels after that, especially if you're doing it naturally. There's things you can take like HCG and clomiphene and all these different things that restart your body's production of testosterone. But you have to make sure that that's all done before you enter into the USADA testing pool. So then you have to be in the USADA testing pool for six full months before you're allowed to compete. So this is where it stands.

So until he enters into that, we don't know when this fight is going to happen from now. If he says it now, tonight I'm going to enter the USADA testing pool. Minimum six months. Yeah. So I would imagine, there's no accusations, but if someone was doing something, they would have a team of people that are testing them and they continue to test them

and make sure you're not going to test positive. Because if you test positive and you saw the testing pool, you're out for two fucking years, kid. There's guys who make their UFC debuts and they piss hot

and they're gone. They get booted out of the UFC and you're banned for two years and it's terrifying. Yeah, booted out of the UFC, and you're banned for two years, and it's terrifying. Yeah, that's crazy. And again, no speculation, but this is just being a logical, rational person. Right. That's crazy, man.

This is stuff that the casual fan just doesn't think about. You know what I mean? You just want the fight to happen. You know what I mean? Well, the fight will be awesome if it happens and when it happens. I'm assuming it's going to happen. But, you know, I'm also hoping that Conor's leg's okay. You know, a leg break of that magnitude, like Chris Weidman, he broke his leg in a similar way.

And he just recently competed in Polaris, which is a grappling competition. And, you know, he was so emotional after it was over because he's like this is the hardest two years of my life so for two years he's been recovering from this uh shin break oh that was brutal oh it's so brutal man some guys never bounce back they're never the same anderson was never the same after his leg break tyron spong was never the same after his leg break like those those kind of leg breaks. They're traumatic, dude. That's traumatic stuff. Scary. I've seen three of them in real life. It's fucking rough, man.

Oof. Stuff gives me the willies, man. It's the worst break. Like, an arm break doesn't bother me nearly as much. There's something about that shin break. And you see that foot dangling. Just going the wrong way. Yeah, it's not pretty.

Not good. Yeah, and it's kind of a career ender for a the wrong way. Yeah, it's not pretty. Not good. Yeah, and it's kind of a career ender for a lot of folks. Yeah. And it doesn't seem, I mean, we don't know if it's a career ender for Conor, you know? I hope not. In retrospect, I wish he had never taken that fight with Poirier, because it seems like he had a hairline fracture already going into that fight. Right.

And that's how it broke. It was like he already had a fucked up leg. Yeah. But he just didn't want to back out It was like he already had a fucked up leg. Yeah. But he just didn't want to back out of the fight, which he probably should have now. Yeah, that was tough to watch too. Yeah. That was real tough to watch, you know.

Because you don't want it to end that way either. Right? Like you want it to be. Of course. You know. I mean, and I don't think Poirier probably wants it to end that way either, right? No.

He wants it to be. No, he wanted it to beat his ass. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is a gigantic fight. Yeah. The rematch, you know, the rubber match between those two, that was a gigantic fight.

Yeah. Yeah. Conor was wild back in the day, man. He still is. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, who knows? I mean, he might come back.

He might be the first guy to come back from that leg break and be able to compete at the highest level. He might come back and nuke Chandler or Chandler might get him. Chandler's a fucking dog, dude. That's a dangerous guy to be locked in there with. For sure. That fight with Justin Gaethje, like Jesus Louises. I mean, those dudes went at it.

And he does that with everybody. He's just like down to go to war. Yeah, he ain't afraid of it. No. He's a fun guy to watch. Yeah, well, there's a lot of fun guys to watch. It's the greatest sport in the world. Yeah.

There's nothing like it. It's so much fun, man. It is really so much fun, dude. It really is. Have you ever done any training yourself? You've done anything? No. Nothing?

Do you exercise at all? Look at you. No, I've not done any training. Depends what you mean by exercise, I do you uh do anything like for your health like exercise um i spent a lot of time outside i mean you know i can't say i'm i'm a gym rat obviously um but it's interesting man i've always struggled i've been this big forever as weird as that sounds right so it's like proportionately to my you know until i stopped growing height wise you know like once i got to where i'm at now i was kind of like this size um well i think the real benefits of exercise is not just with the way you look in your body

size i think it's your brain sure i think, especially when we're talking about all these issues about the mind and the creative mind playing tricks on you. For me, um, forcing myself to exercise every day is one of the main reasons why I stay sane through all the chaos that my life goes through. And I think that's, that's the real benefit that a lot of people do. It's almost like the, the benefit that you get physically is – that's great. But that's almost like a side effect of the benefit that you get for the mind. For me, that's how I approach it. Yeah, the crazy thing I think that I struggle with the most with it is – you know, it does bother me, right?

Like being bigger, that bothers me, right? You know, it does bother me, right? Like being bigger, that bothers me, right? The thing that also bothers me about it is like, okay, I literally went to the doctor last week, right? To get the whole bust down. Like I get physical every year, right? Blood work, dude. Panels, counts, everything.

And it's just all clean, dude. And that's like, it's strange to me, dude, because I feel like I shouldn't be this big. Right. And it feels, and that's really upsetting to me. Like I don't eat a tremendous amount of unhealthy food. Like, I'm not stagnant. I mean, I go out and do, I mean, I was doing, you know, hour 45, two-hour sets, three, sometimes four nights a week for years at this size, and it's never bothered me. But it bothers me. It does, though. It bothers me in the sense of, like, because I don't feel like I should be the size that I am, right?

And I'm sure everyone's going to jump on me when they watch this and be like, well, you need to do this, you need to do that, right? And I've just – it's a code that I've never been able to crack, right, with diet, with exercise. I've had a trainer out on tour, and it's like i can lose 10 15 20 pounds and then it just it stops right and maybe that's me dude right because ultimately i think the thing that's so frustrating to me is like is it ultimately it is me right there is nobody else to blame right like there's not i know whatever i'm doing at that time is not enough well you have to look at it like this it's a process and you have to look at where you are in that process now you can

be someone like jamie who's thin and healthy and fit and his process that he decides he wants to improve his fitness is a different process than yours. And this process is scientific. You can look at it in terms of calories in, calories out, expenditure, diet, and mitigation things, and all the different things you could do for recovery like sauna and ice bath and all those different things. All those factors play a part in this process. And this process is long you have to realize you've been in the process of becoming who you are now your whole life 33 years right so the process of growing is it's but it you have to be it's a path it's a long grind yeah it's not like i take someone on tour and I lose 20 pounds then it stops

You you've just you just started your first steps you're not climbing up Mount Kilimanjaro yet Yeah, there's a long process and people get very discouraged in the fact that they don't see tangible Obvious physical results for sure They would like to work out a few times really hard and then to have a six-pack and look great No doubt that's what everybody wants. No doubt. But the thing is a process. But it's just like your music. It's just like anything else. The more time you put into it, the more effort you put into it, the better the results are. And you can get people that are like my friend Ethan Suplee, who was like fucking enormous at one time.

Oh, remember the Titans? Yeah. He was like massive. He was so big. And now that dude is fucking uber healthy works out every day he's super happy and fit and and he went through multiple times where he gained the weight back and blew out his stitches from having his fucking skin removed he fucked himself up and had to get it done again and and he still kept going he got back on the horse and he kept going but But it's not a thing that happens quick.

It's not a thing that happens easy. And you have to be, like, it's not a thing that's just going to happen on its own. Like, it's like, oh, how'd you build that house? Oh, I just fucking just did it on its own. No, it's like every fucking nail has to be hammered in. Every piece of floorboard has to be cut perfectly. Every two by four has to be you just it all has to be done yeah and it's a long process yeah it's tough and i'm i would say you know now i'm in the middle

of that right like i'm in the middle of that process of like i have wrestled with it for a long time right and i'm ready to like move on with like the next part of my life. Which is like. Then just commit to it. The fact that you're committing to it right now on the air is great. Yeah. And then also just start writing shit down. Yeah.

Writing down what you're supposed to do. Yeah. I need, that's the thing I need is like, you know, having, you know, having, you know, our son and everything I think is is huge you know um it's given me such a perspective shift um and i'm just i'm slowly but surely you know it's every day it really is like it's making this choice instead of that choice right and it's like that's so hard right and it is and and not and that's not an excuse at all, you know, because I will get there. I'm a firm believer in that, you know, if it takes.

Listen, man, I can find somebody to help you. I would love that. Yeah, I could find you a rock-solid trainer that's in Nashville. I have a great trainer. That's the thing. I have a great trainer, and I feel like, yeah, I just got to commit to it, man. And it's like I have a guy that's great in our schedules. He's got a son.

He was the guy that came out with us. And I love him, dude, and that was the most progress I ever made. And me and him get along so well. Get back on the horse, Luke. Let's go. No, I want to, man. Let's fucking go. I want to so bad.

So then just do it yeah all right it's done done done good beautiful i'll commit to it that'll help the mind man that's the thing that helps my mind more than anything and i think it's like it's funny i was talking to my business manager who's a dear a dear friend of mine now you know and um him and myself and my manager are all really, really tight. It's kind of an abnormal relationship in the sense of like, he's not just my business manager, right? Like he's become, he's friends with my parents. Like he's a part of like our lives now. Right. And so we talk about these things and I remember telling him sitting out

one night having, having a whiskey. And i was like i was like chris man look like i was like i know i've accomplished so much like doing music and and like i've you know we're about to go in the stadium so this was just a few months ago i think maybe december or january and i was like listen man like i've accomplished all these things and like i've won entertainer of the year twice now and and i've I've got, you know, 15 number one songs and all these insane accolades that I could have never imagined. And like, in some ways, like, because I love music and because I feel like I've been like blessed with like the voice I have in the town, I have like voice and the talent I have, to me, doesn't feel earned.

Does that make sense to you? There is a lot of work to hone the craft, but nobody that's tall is inherently talented for being tall. And just because you're tall doesn't... You didn't earn it. Right. You don't feel like you're... You're not a great basketball player because you're tall doesn't... You didn't earn it. Right. You don't feel like you're... You're not a great basketball player

because you're tall. You earn that. Right. But sometimes the precursor to being great at basketball is being tall. So you do have to, not always,

but for the most part. Right. Statistically speaking, that's a precursor of being great at basketball. Having a great voice statistically is a precursor for being a great musician. Not always, but for the most part, statistically speaking. And so I don't want to

come across as contrite or anything when I say this, but like, I feel like sometimes that I haven't done anything that's like hard to do. But that's also a part of your humility. That's part of what keeps you focused on your task. It's like you're not, you know, you're not like congratulating yourself. But like I think my physical fitness and my appearance and my size has always been something that I've struggled with from the time I was a child. And like it's this mountain that I've always been standing at the bottom of trying to run up and inherently slipping down every time. Right.

And it's this thing that like I feel like if I don't overcome it in my lifetime, it will be my biggest regret. Without a doubt. Like, it is a burden that weighs so heavily on me. And many guys. And silently. And many women, silently. And not because I care of what other people think about me, about the way I look, about my size, or any of that.

It's because what it, I feel like it means about me as a man. Because there's this thing that I want to accomplish that is solely up to me. Nobody else can do it for me. Nobody did this to me but me. I want so badly to conquer that, and I will. And I'm excited for that day to come because I know that will mean so much to me. I want it to mean something to my children. I want to be running around the yard with my children. I want to take my son on an elk hunt when he's 16 years old and hike up a mountain when I'm in my late 40s.

I want to do that with him. And I know right now I can't do that with him. And that bugs the shit out of me. This is all doable, Luke. It's all doable. No doubt. This is not like trying to get tall. No doubt.

No doubt. It's all doable. This is something that all you have to do is just stay on the path. And I think there is beauty in that, that it is something that can be accomplished. Yes. And that's why it's so exciting when people do it. When someone like Ethan pulls it off, it's a fucking beautiful gift to everybody else. This is a surmountable obstacle.

This is something that can be accomplished. It's not easy, but it can be done. No. It can be done, for sure. Not impossible. All right.

We ended it with this. Luke, you're a bad motherfucker. Appreciate you very much. Appreciate you having me. Thanks for doing this. Let's do it again. Absolutely. I'm in.

Fuck yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.