The Joe Rogan Experience - #1961 - Peter Attia

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

Peter Attia, M.D., is a physician specializing in the science of longevity and optimal performance. He is the founder of Early Medical, host of "The Drive" podcast, and author, along with Bill Gifford, of "Outlive: The Science & Art of Longevity."www.peterattiamd.com

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. This sign is made by this company, Rogue House Relics. So they make like these beautiful neon, cool looking, funky signs. And my buddy Brigham actually bought it for me like when I moved here. And I was like, wow, what a cool sign. Like me like when i moved here and i was like wow what a cool sign like wouldn't that be nice it was like in the studio behind me and so it wasn't on purpose it wasn't by design at all and so once uh once he did it but the ufo was his idea yeah it was before

we even decided to call it the mothership yeah but i'm easy to figure out. I mean, I got a fucking Bob Lazar UFO on the desk. I got fucking stars on the ceilings. I have an alien head in the sky. Yeah, I'm a dork. It's easy to, I mean, it's not like, wow, how do you know you like UFOs? I'm fucking obsessed. I'm absolutely obsessed. I think it's the only thing that's going to save us.

So Outlive, the science and art of longevity. This is a big one, buddy. Look at this. Look at all this. There's a lot of information in this. Not a lot of pictures. No pictures? No, there's some.

I need pictures. There's some. There's some. No, it's... Is it out now? Out today. Today. Beautiful.

How long did it take you to write this? Six years. Wow. Six years. And I know that's like six years of actual work too. Yeah. I mean, I rewrote it twice. So there was kind of version one, version two.

This is version three. What did you change? So the first version got basically thrown out by the publisher because they said, this is way too technical. There's no narrative. There's no story. It's being written to just a very tiny sliver of the world. Basically, it's like the book you would write to scientists or maybe physicians. So then there was kind of version two.

So that version is completely gone. I don't think there's anything from that that made it into version two. Wow. Version two was the skeleton of this book, but it was about 50% longer. I mean, it was a massive book and that's the kind of version that I'd say was circa 2020. And this version is just basically better cause it's shorter. A lot of stuff got taken out of it that I think was not absolutely necessary. And I just sharpened my thinking. I mean, I think that's what writing is. I think writing just makes you ask the question, like, is this necessary? And does this help the reader understand something?

And if not, get it out. So the expression is kill your babies. You've got to be able to, like, read something that you've worked really hard on and put a ton of time into and say i gotta nuke it yeah i think that's uh with everything yeah totally fiction with comedy with it with i'm sure it's that way with music you just there's a certain point in time you have to edit things and get that with comedians it's a real issue because some comedians like certain parts of a bit. I'm like, well, that bit fucks your bit up. I know it gets like a little bit of a laugh, but it fucks it up because of this.

Like, yeah, I kind of like doing that. I'm like, listen, don't look at it like it's yours. Look at it like if you were outside of you. Like I edit the shit out of my stuff. If you look at it like it's outside of you, like how would you approach that? But that's very hard to do because if you write something, I mean, six years, right? Three different versions. There's a lot of you invested in this book.

So it's like very difficult to just like chop stuff up and, you know, and just fucking throw it away all the time and all the thinking. And there was a whole appendix that never made it in. So one of the things I wanted to do was pick like the 20 most important drugs, hormones, supplements that I think are relevant and write just quote unquote 10 pages on each. And I didn't go into it thinking it would be 10 pages. I thought I'm just going to write the essentials on these 10 things, you know, kind of rapamycin, metformin, you know, nicotinamide, riboside, you know, those sorts of things. But then it turned out I was taking me like, you know, eight to 10 pages per and the publisher's

like, yeah, there's no way you can have a 200 page appendix on a 450 page book. So like all of that work gone, just scrap. Oh no. Have you thought about making that work gone, just scrapped. Oh no. Have you thought about making that like a separate guide? Yeah. Maybe down the line I'll just publish it on my website or something like that. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it seems like it's very valuable information though. Yeah. I mean, it's, I'm ready to put the book aside for a minute. It's so burnt out. Yeah. Although my wife says like the last few weeks, she's like, it feels like the weight of the world is off your shoulders. Yeah. Well, it is when you have something that's a big project, it's very difficult to not let it consume your entire life.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was watching this clip of you and Huberman. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was watching this clip of you and Huberman. It was really fascinating because you were talking about self-talk, uh, you get obsessed and then you get very hard on yourself if you're, if things aren't going well or if it's not going exactly the way you want it to go the way, you know, if you're not using proper technique, if you're not doing, and then for you, you had a real problem where you were like very hypercritical of yourself. Yeah.

And, I mean, it was actually out loud. I mean, I would just verbally berate myself whenever I made mistakes. And I don't remember not experiencing this, right? So this is something that seemed. Your whole life. Yeah. This is like seven-year-old Peter was doing this too. Wow.

Yeah. Where'd you get that from? I mean, I know it had to do with sort of, you know, various defects in my, you know, my life as a child. And, and I think there was just, I think everybody responds kind of differently to, I, the word trauma is a bit loaded, so I want to be kind of careful using it, but I think we all experienced trauma. We adapt, we're highly adaptable, right? So everybody adapts to trauma very well, I think for the most part, but there are mal adaptations. And I think one of my, you know, issues I think growing up was just a total inferiority complex, right? This feeling like not good enough, um, you know, look down

upon constantly, you know, all that sort of stuff. Like a lot of this is very typical immigrant stuff, by the way, like when you're kind of the only nonwhite person in your middle-class neighborhood, you're, you're different than everybody else. Um, look, I think that's what drew me into sports like boxing and martial arts at such a young age, right? It was kind of like the, I'll be different. I'll be better. I'll be tougher. All those things. So somehow I just think that that that narrative got harsher and harsher as I got older and older. And it didn't matter, you know, what sort of accolades came with it because because it does produce good results. times, you know, you, you do get better. Um, but I think, you know, where I got to is just the, the benefits were no longer close to compensating for the costs. And I think the biggest costs were the costs, not just on me, which were there all along, but it's how it kind

of spreads into your relationships with other people. Most, most importantly, your family. Yeah. I realized at an early age that there's zero benefit in being hard on yourself because I'm, I am no matter what, I'm a perfectionist and I get very angry at myself. There's zero benefit to self-talk that's negative. So I, I cut that out of my life, like very early on. And how did you do that? Well, one of the, I mean, from, you know, age 15 on, I was very, very active in martial arts competition, right? So my whole focus was on that. And my whole focus was on getting better.

And anything that would somehow or another get in the way of me getting better, I cut it out. Whether it was partying, drinking, spending too much time with girls, whatever it was, I'm like, that's got to go because that's getting in the way. And I found that negative self-talk gets in the way because there's the reason why you have negative, I had negative self-talk was because I was insecure and I was very ambitious and I really wanted to be really good and I wanted to be really good immediately I didn't want to

wait but I realized somewhere along the way that the negative in any way shape or form I didn't need it because I was so driven like that the negative was just getting in the way it was like I thought that it was helping me because I was like, come on, you fucking idiot. Like, get going. But then I realized, like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, that's not – that isn't – there's no benefit to that. Because all the – you already have, like, this crazy desire to get better. So just don't ever be shitted yourself.

And instead, concentrate all your energy on what you're doing wrong and technique. And that's why my technique got so good so quickly is because I didn't spend any time with self-loathing. I didn't spend any time after losses loathing myself. All I wanted to do was get back to the gym. But I just figured it out on my own. And I don't know how. You know, there's been some moments in my life in comedy and in martial arts where I realized I have a very – I had an error in thinking and I made adjustments. And that was one of – that was an adjustment that I made like as a young teenager.

I made that adjustment. That's fortunate. I mean, look, I'm 47. I'm 50 now, but I was 47 when I figured this out. Yeah. And I didn't necessarily figure it out on my own. I mean, it had to be sort of made apparently clear to me. So if I'd figured this out when I was 17, I would have saved myself and everybody else a lot of pain.

Yeah, it's hard, man. Because if you're ambitious, if you have goals, if you're very into what you're doing, you're very focused on whatever the endeavor is. Whenever you have a setback, it's really frustrating and it's infuriating. And you can get very angry at yourself. Especially if you're doing something that you know better. Like if you make an error, whether it's with archery or whether it's anything that you do that you're really interested in. If you know that it was a lapse of concentration or you're tired or you just weren't focused on it entirely and you fuck something up, it's like, God damn it, you fucking dumbass piece of shit. Like, it's so easy to do that, but you can't let that happen because it's a bad use of fuel.

It really is. It's a bad use of fuel. I mean, I'll still occasionally yell if I fuck something, like, fucking fuck. But I'm not mad at myself. It's just energy. I just have to fucking get it out. You know, I'm just, I just got to fucking let it out.

But I think thinking of yourself as a fucking loser is never good. Like zero time. There's no benefit in it ever. You're always going to have frustration. You're always going to have frustration. You're always going to. But you have to also understand the process. Like in the. While things are going poorly.

It's very difficult to recognize that it's part of the process. It's so hard. It's so hard when things are going poorly. Whether it's with stand-up comedy or martial arts or anything. When things suck. When things aren't going well, it's so difficult to see past that moment. But you just have to. And over time, with many, many different instances of this taking place, you recognize, like, it's okay.

I know you feel like shit. I know you feel like the world is ending. But it's not. Not only is it not ending, this is like totally inconsequential and this is actually good for you. Because this frustration will add to your motivation. It will add to your inspiration. And you'll eventually get better. But tell that to a 16-year-old.

It's fucking so hard, man. It's so hard. I actually, I tell you, in me it got worse over time. Like as bad as it was when I was young. And when I was young, I mean, I was, it was so, I can't imagine what my parents went through. Like, I don't think I went one month without putting my fist through a wall at home. I mean, I got, I got so good at doing drywall. I'm serious. Like, cause that's like, my parents were like, well, you're gonna have to fix that.

Just like, I basically became like a tradesman on the side. Why didn't they just get you a punching bag? I did. I mean, I had every punching bag. You just didn't care. Because if I got pissed while I was in my bedroom, there wasn't a punching bag there. Wow. I mean, how many, like even in college, like, you know, writing computer programs and like if I screw up some line of code, like I would break my mouse or break my keyboard or whatever.

I mean, it was just like so pathologically destructive. And, you know, it just got so much worse, you know, which is really frightening. Do you think it got so much worse because you accomplished so many things and your drive just increased with the amount of success that you had and the different things you accomplished in your life, whereas when you were younger, it was almost like you experienced fuck-ups and success, whereas as you've gotten older, when a fuck-up does happen, it's just so infuriating because you should be past it? That's a good question. That might be the case. My thinking is a little bit different, which is there's an addiction at play here, right? So if you shift the thinking of this to that of addiction mindset, and it's hard to sometimes think of perfectionism as an addiction because it doesn't produce immediately the same negative consequences as the addictions to alcohol, drugs, and gambling and sort of the less socially acceptable addictions. But I think what happens

with most people who are addicted to something is their appetite for that addiction gets higher and higher. And so if you're addicted to alcohol, like an alcoholic habituates to a certain amount of alcohol, they have to drink more and more and more. And similarly, the need for achievement grew more and more and more. And one of my therapists explained this to me so well. And I was like, that is the most frightening, brilliant analogy I've ever heard. She said, you know, your entire self-esteem is based on performance. She said, you know, your entire self-esteem is based on performance. And anytime you turn to one of your performance, you know, addictions and you don't get performance back, you lose your mind. Right. So you everything you have to shoot the bow, it's got to be great. If you go out and drive the car or get in the simulator, it's got to be great. If you're trying to, you know, prepare for a podcast, it's got to be great. Like all of these things, you have to be great. And when you don't, it's sort of like an alcoholic who walks into a bar, asks for vodka and gets water, right? They're asking for vodka. They need the thing that feeds their addiction, but they're being given water

instead. So I'm demanding great performance because that's how I validate my existence. And instead I get no performance. I get lousy performance. But because my appetite has grown, it gets hard. That's why I think over time it just got worse and worse. So what did you do to correct that? Well, I mean, I think there's two things, right? There's the underlying belief system has to be completely shattered, right? So that's, you know, I spent a total of five weeks in residential care, two weeks in 2017 and three weeks in 2020. So that's, you know, that's as bad as it gets, right? That's, you're doing 12 to 13 hours a day of therapy, seven days a week.

And that's where you're kind of going back to the root of the problems. Like what is it that is creating or has created this belief system in you? So you have to go back and look at that. You then have to figure out what are the strategies and tools to break these habits and behaviors. these habits and behaviors. And so to the latter, there was a very tangible tool put forth by one of the therapists, which was every time you do something that creates this ire and rage in you, instead of defaulting into your normal state, which is yelling at yourself or breaking an arrow over your thigh or whatever it is you would do, pull out your phone and audibly speak as though it's your friend that made that mistake. Right? So if I'm shooting horribly and I really feel like I'm gonna lose

my mind, I pull out my phone and I pretend it's you that's shooting horribly. What would I say to you? I wouldn't yell at you if you're shooting poorly. I'd be like, Joe, look, man, it's a little windy today. Let's be honest. We're not making excuses. But when it's 20 mile an hour wind, it's hard to shoot well. Maybe you're tired. You probably just lifted right before you came out here. That always makes it harder for you to stabilize the bow.

And look, maybe it's just a bad day. Let's come out and do it again tomorrow. And so I would record that. And I would send that to my therapist every single time. And this would happen like multiple a bad day. Like, let's come out and do it again tomorrow. And so I would record that and I would send that to my therapist every single time. And this would happen like multiple times a day. And just doing that four or five times a day after four, five, six months, what I called my inner Bobby Knight, which was the name I had for that guy that would scream at me. Like, I just couldn't hear him anymore. Wow. That's fascinating. So you fixed a lifelong problem in just a few months.

Which if you had told me upfront that was possible, I would have said it's not. You can't, I was like, there's no way you can undo something so, I thought so terminal. Um, but you know, this, this speaks to plasticity, right? The brain is a pretty plastic thing. It's interesting to think of what started you on this path and why you didn't course correct. I love this thought process that it's an addiction and you're addicted to great performance, which totally makes sense. Totally makes sense. Because I could feel myself, I could, like, I definitely could have succumbed to that same sort of thinking and behavior.

And it is a dangerous addiction. Perfectionism is a dangerous addiction in the sense that a lot of people will reward it. Society generally rewards it. And in that sense, another fear I had was, because I mean, it's not like my, it's not like people around me didn't know I was a mess, but anytime someone tried to suggest like back off, I would look at them and say, are you an idiot? Like if I back off, I won't be as good. Like if I don't, you know, like when I was in residency, I had this obsession with wanting to read every single textbook written in surgery. And you know, this is, we're already working like 114 hours a week. It's not like I had a lot of free time. And my wife was like, you're so dogmatic in this. Like you insist on reading 26 pages of tiny fonted

textbooks every day. And, and she's like, why? Like you don't need to do this. And I was like, are you kidding? Like, of course I need to do this. Like, what else will my legacy be if I don't do this? I mean, it's just like this very polluted sense of self-worth. Um, but again, it's rewarded because then you, you, you know, you know a lot, right? And so people are happy with how much you know. So it feeds on itself in a very destructive way. There's nobody that's looking at the guy who's losing all his money gambling and saying, good job. Keep doing that. Legacy is the strangest thing to aspire to because you will never experience it. Yeah.

It's such a weird one. It's so ridiculous, isn't it? You're not even going to be here. It's so weird. I'm really glad I don't have any worry about my legacy. I have zero thought about my legacy. And I am so glad that I couldn't care less about it now as well. It is such a remarkable freedom.

It's the driving force behind many people's lives though. Yeah. And I actually like feeling like kind of a good for nothing, whatever. Well, you certainly are not that though. See, that's why you like feeling like good for nothing because you clearly are not. Well, I think it's just that I realized like outside of my kids,

I'll tell you an interesting story. It's sort of a sad story, but it's, it's so profound, right? So I had a friend who, um, his wife was pregnant with their first kid and he's a successful guy. So he, prior to his wife having kids, I think he goes through the same sort of thoughts everyone is going to go through, which is like, how is this going to change my life? And the day his wife has the baby, he, you know, uh, it's like the next day, I guess she's still in the hospital. He steps out to go buy some food and he, he, he still remembers this to this day. He's like, he bought a banana and he's walking back to the hospital with the banana that he just bought.

And he thinks to himself, I wonder if I'm going to be the kind of guy who now thinks the most important thing in his life is his family, or is it still going to be the kind of guy who now thinks the most important thing in his life is his family, or is it still going to be, you know, being a venture capitalist? And he's thinking about it. He's thinking about it. And he goes, you know what? I actually think it's just going to be my family. I think all this other stuff is going to be bullshit and life is going to be my family. And I'm not making this up. He gets back to the room and his wife is dead. Oh, my God. She had had a pulmonary embolism.

And she died one day after delivering their first child. And I was just having dinner with him like two weeks ago. And he was like, you know, it's so ironic that I kind of just immediately have that realization just as everything gets taken away from me. But he feels that way even more now. Right. And I was like, you know, I think that is exactly the right distinction to make. It's like this is life. These are the things that are life.

Everything else is bullshit. Yeah. is bullshit. Yeah. The problem is that getting acceptance and getting appreciation for success is all, is a drug. It really is a drug, right? And it becomes a thing that you aspire to. And it seems like the only thing in life when the, really the, the, the goal to life really is harmony. That's the real goal. Like the goal to life is not never being uncomfortable or always being uncomfortable. The goal to life is not never being upset versus always being upset. The goal to life is like this balance. It's like enjoyment in the things that you do, but also in your occupation,

having hobbies, but also having a family, having love and friendship, but also having enough people in your life that you've encountered that suck to understand why you appreciate the people that you care for so much. I think all those are important. Like even the people that I know that suck, I value those experiences because they've taught me how really cool my other friends are. You know, when someone is a fucking psycho narcissist and they fucking ruin everything they touch and like, it's good to see that person. It's really good to see this one person that doesn't give a shit about anybody but themselves and go, wow, what a weird way to live. Yeah.

You know, and then it'd make you appreciate this other friend that's like super generous and helps everybody. He's always smiling like, God, I love you so much now. I appreciate you. You know, like appreciate like that you have this energy because we could all be that guy. We could all be this fucking psycho who thinks about nothing other than themselves or this psycho who thinks about nothing other than success,

which I've been in my life before. You know, I really liked, I almost wish I could go back and meet myself when I was 21. Cause I'm so different from that person then. I'm almost like have a distorted understanding of like who I was and really would like to see that person. I'd like to like see that person operate, you know, like, and just like. And you wouldn't worry about, cause of course I play this game all the time, right? Everything happens for a reason. You are where you are today.

You are who you are. If you went back and talked to the 21-year-old you, A, would he even listen to you? That's question one. I wouldn't talk to him. Oh, you just want to observe. No, I just want to watch. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I'm not going to change anything.

Yeah, I got it. Look, I would not want to change anything about my youth because I think that it turned me into who I am. And I think whatever combination of life experiences and bad feelings and positive feelings, whatever positive feedback that I got from performance and from accomplishments, they drove me to become who I am. But it's also, it's like, there's also a lot of like being fortunate, right? Like being fortunate that you found a great occupation and a great group of people and I have a great family. It's like to be happy in life is fucking complicated. Yeah. There's amazing luck involved. I mean, you and I were talking about this the other day, right?

Like winning the wife lottery, like when you marry the right person. It's everything. Yeah. And I think I just feel like so lucky that. Your wife's amazing. You really are lucky. And so am I. And a lot of other people are too. But you also didn't fucking marry some dumb bitch.

You know, in her case, she didn't marry some fucking dumb asshole. It's like you get lucky, but you also, I've dated some monsters, you know, and I got out of it, luckily. But just Jesus Christ, there's monsters out there. There's people, and these people are just human beings. them at whatever stage of their existence where they've had like terrible upbringings and bad family members and just a fucking alcoholic dad, abusive mother who's constantly criticizing them. And then they become this thing. And then you run into them at the bar.

Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Peter. Hi, I'm Debbie. And then Debbie just fucking, let me look at your phone. Who are you texting, Peter? Like, oh'm Debbie. And then Debbie just fucking, let me look at your phone. Who are you texting, Peter? I'm like, oh, no. But if Debbie's hot, that's the problem. Your genes are like, listen, listen, shut the fuck up.

Look at her tits. Look at that ass. Let's go. And then next thing you know, Debbie's pregnant. Next thing you know, Peter has a baby with some monster. And that can happen. It's happened to my friends, to good friends of mine. It's fucking awful to experience.

I've had good friends of mine that got wrapped up in horrendous relationships. I think I was thinking about this the other day. I mean, the role of luck in anyone's life is profound. The thing that I think gets underappreciated is the luck we have being born where we are. Like I, so my parents are immigrants, right? So I was born a couple of years after they moved to Canada. And I was talking with my parents, uh, two months ago, they came out to visit. And I said, like, was there any chance you guys were not going to move? You stayed in Egypt, right? Like what, what was there any chance? And, and I think, you ever think how different my life would be if I was born in Cairo? And the answer is like,

beyond different, beyond, beyond different. There is no singer, single stroke of luck that has impacted my life. And by the way, like if we had been, if we'd been born in Egypt, I'd been born in Egypt, you know, because we're not Muslim, I mean, it's not a great place to be if you're not a Muslim, um, in a, in a country that's obviously majority Muslim. So, you know, there just would have, you know, I would have been discriminated against. I mean, it would have just been, I wouldn't have had the same educational opportunities, which wouldn't have had any of the opportunities that I had growing up in Canada. So, you know, something that's completely out of my control, but probably had a greater impact on the arc of my life than anything else. Yeah. That's just dumb luck, right? You just hit the birth lottery. Absolutely. I think that way too. I also think that,

you know, we're extremely fortunate in human history to be born when we were born. I'm a little older than you. I'm 55, you're 50. So we, you know, you were born when we were born. I'm a little older than you. I'm 55. You're 50. So you were born in the 70s. I was born in the late 60s. And we were born- Yeah. Just go 100 years earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Insane. And evolutionary time is still nothing, right? That's like 0.001%. But yes, 100 years sooner, totally different existence. Yeah. We're fucked. We're fucked. Everyone's dying of infections.

And on top of that, we have experienced a very unique time in human history where the birth of the internet has happened while we were adults. And not too young for us, right? Right, exactly. So it's like we got to grow up, I hate to say it, but like normal, right? Yeah, like normal. Like a normal human. I mean, when I was a kid, I remember the answering machine being a big deal. We were like, whoa.

We never had one at our house. Did they call you and leave a message? No, that was advanced. That was way too advanced. I think I was in high school when it happened or somewhere around then. And I remember we got one at my house. I was like, whoa. And you would come home and you'd see like a little light flashing. It showed you had a message. I was like, this is crazy. I remember when we got our first push phone,

like when you didn't have to rotary dial it. And I was like, it is so much faster now. And you don't go crazy. Talk about punching a wall. If you get through all those digits, then you fuck up the last one like, ah! I remember hating to call people that had eights and nines in their numbers. Oh, yeah. They took a long time. Forget about that. Nines took forever. Oh, my God. That's hilarious.

It's so funny. People will never know that. They think it's novel. It's like people who like using typewriters. Oh, I'm an old-timey person with my fucking white out on the paper the fuck out of here stupid I mean it's kind of amazing typewriters existed forever and then all of a sudden there's a word processor and it like says didn't you mean this word you're like oh my god, I did mean that word. Thank you. It's like you barely even, like, when I write in Microsoft Word, I am stunned at how often it just, like, corrects for me.

Or I can just hit tab, and, like, I'm halfway into the word and it offers a suggestion. Yep, that's it. Yep, that's it. Like, I get four letters in, and it's like, suggestion? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Well, and Gmail does it now for the whole sentence.

Yes, that's wild. Yeah. When you does it now for the whole sentence yes that's wild yeah when you get an email it gives you a potential response like oh boy meanwhile the government is like completely reading everything you say everything you say did you see that tucker carlson said that the uh the nsa got into his signal? No, I didn't. Yeah, his signal app, because he was about to have a conversation with Putin. They were trying to set up a conversation with Putin, and the government called him up.

And they're like, hey, we know you're setting up a conversation with Putin. We saw it through your signal app. And he was like, what? Like, I didn't even fucking know they could do that. That's what he was saying. I assumed they could do that because I had a conversation with Gavin DeBecker and he essentially said that through Pegasus software – it's Pegasus 2.0. He said Pegasus 1, you needed to click a link and that's how they got Bezos.

That's how – what's the guy's name from Saudi Arabia got Bezos. MBS. Yeah. But Pegasus 2, they just need your phone number. That's it. All this idea of encryption. Oh, you're using encryption? That shit doesn't mean anything.

They can just read whatever they want. It's really crazy. It's the violation of privacy that's available right now to, by the way, just regular people. Here's the thing about it. Like who are these people that work for the government? They're people. They're just people that make a decision to just look into other people's stuff. It's not like these are – they're not priests.

They're not some monk that spent 10 years meditating on a thought on a mountaintop and they've achieved a you know an extraordinary level of consciousness no these are just fucking regular dorks who jerk off in the bathroom on their lunch break and these guys have access to all your emails and it's a real problem it's a real problem that i don't think most people are even available or aware of. It's a giant issue that we experience right now with this whole digital world. And I don't know how much you've fucked with chat GPT at all. Quite a bit. I mean, I've been trying to get onto GPT-4 now because I'm told that it's a significant upgrade. Significant upgrade. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was not impressed with chat GPT on questions that required,

like I'll give you an example. Like I asked it between Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, and Roberto Duran, explain who you think is the best boxer of that era. What did it say? I can't remember, but it was so dumb, Joe, that I was like, this is not a helpful answer. Like it basically said, well, you know,

Tommy Hearns beat Roberto Duran. And like, it just basically recited a bunch of facts, but it couldn't come up with anything. I then asked it, this was actually really odd. I said, what was so special about the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix? That's the one where going into the final race, uh, Verstappen and Hamilton were tied even winner take all for the championship that year. And it was a very controversial ending because of the safety cars. So basically, um, leading, Max is in second. And then with a few laps to go, who spun out? I think Nicholas Latifi hit the wall, which needed a safety car.

And in the process, there's a rule that says every lapped car should be able to unlap itself for the restart, but they only let the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen unlap themselves. So Verstappen had already pitted. He got soft tires. What is unlap? So by the end of a race, usually the leaders have actually lapped the back markers of the field.

So unlap means they get to go ahead of the leader to unlap themselves and catch the tail again because the cars are all going so slow under a safety car. I see. And anyway, the point is it was super controversial. If not for the way the stewards had interpreted the rule, Hamilton probably would have won the race. But instead Verstappen won because he was on better tires.

So even though he was behind, it was like he smoked Hamilton in the last lap. So he had newer tires. He had newer tires. Yeah. He had switched his tires at the beginning of that crash. So I asked chat GPT to sort of tell me what it was. I didn't want to allude to it. I just said, what was special about that race? This is the part that blew my mind. Not only did it not know, it confabulated the whole thing. It literally made up nonsense. Oh, it got some things right. This was the last race of the 2021 season and going in, you know, Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton were even on points. And then it went off the rails, dude. It was like, it just, in the middle of the race, there was a safety car that did this.

And it's like, no, there wasn't. And it actually got it wrong. It said Lewis won and in doing so became the first ever eight time world champion. And I'm like, wow. It's like the confidence with which you spewed all of those lies is amazing. So this is 3.5. This was, so I did this probably like a month ago. So I don't know what version. Must have been 3.5. Yeah. Was that what it was? Was it 3 or 3.5 a month ago?

Because it changed multiple times. 4 is the newer version within like the last two weeks, but not everyone can use it still. I'm not good enough to use it because I've tried. I can't get it. You can't get it? No. Why not? I don't know.

Every time I try it. They don't like it. Yeah, clearly not. You must have talked some shit. I must have. Maybe they heard can't get it? No. Why not? I don't know. Every time I try. They don't like you. Yeah, clearly not. You must talk some shit. I must have. Maybe they heard you talk about 3.5. No four for you. You would never be able to get.

That's an interesting thing when it comes to the boxing analogy or the question. How would you quantify? Because experts, like you and I, love boxing. Right. But if we had a conversation about who's better, who would you quantify? Because experts, like you and I, love boxing. Right. But if we had a conversation about who's better, who would you say? Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, or Roberto Duran?

I put Hagler first. Me too. Yeah, I agree. I think he was the best. Because he beat everybody, and the only reason why I wouldn't put Duran ahead of Hagler is that Duran was fighting 160 pounds. Duran wasn't a natural middleweight.

He was a 135 pounder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you go back to like Ken Buchanan, when he fought Ken Buchanan at 135, he was a fucking monster. He was a beast all the way up to welterweight. Yeah. I mean, insane. And even in welterweight. And then, you know, the second fight with Sugar Ray Leonard really-

No, no, no. Hearns won that fight. That's a disaster. No, no, no. Hearns won that fight. That's a disaster. No, no. Leonard and Duran. Yeah. The second fight's a disaster because Duran got fat and was partying and he had a fucking lion that was on a chain and was walking down Panama. He's out of his fucking mind.

And he just partied too much and they gave him like six weeks to prepare for an enormous fight. Didn't he lose like 40 pounds in six weeks or something? Well, he looks like shit, too. Like, you look at his body, the difference is the way his body looked in the first fight and the second. The first fight, he was like a live wire. Yeah. I mean, he was just an animal. I mean, he attacked with such ferocity, such fucking technique, and just roughed Leonard up and battered him and did to Leonard what nobody anticipated.

Yeah. You know? And Leonard, for whatever reason, decided to try to stand with him, which is crazy. So Leonard had a far better approach in the second fight, but he also was facing a Duran that just really fucked up. And those are the days where you had to weigh in the day of the fight too, which is crazy. And I'll tell you, I don't think Leonard beat Hearns in the second fight that was a draw. I mean, I think that was an awful call.

Yeah, I think so too. And I don't think Leonard beat Hagler. No, I don't. I've scored that fight 115-113 for Hagler four times across 20 years. I watch it about every four years, and I keep coming back 115-113. And it bums me out like it just just i always think like haggler doesn't quite get the do he i think haggler was you know i think haggler monzon you know hopkins robinson i mean they're the greatest middleweights of all time yeah yeah i would agree yeah i think think I mean Hagler has a special place in my heart because did you ever meet him?

No No, no, he's one I really wish I met Yeah, me too He was such a hero of mine like as a kid like he was so obsessed with him when I was 13 me too Same thing for me. It was his discipline. Yep. Never got out of shape shows up in camp in shape at wait Yeah, and you wear that hat. It says war on it. Yeah.

Oh, God. He scared everybody. And also he had the greatest chin of all time. Amazing counter puncher. Yeah. The one Roldan knockdown is horseshit. No. That's a fake knockdown.

It wasn't a knockdown. He got kind of pushed down. They called it a knockdown. He took a shot better than anybody that's ever existed. He took a shot from John the Beast Mugabe that snapped his head back and he's like yeah, whatever and just fucking stayed on him. Look at the first round of Hagler-Hearns.

Oh my god. And Hearns just threw missiles at him. Just boom, boom. I watched that again just two days ago. No way. Yeah. I don't think I've watched that fight in about five years. God, it's amazing, I need to go back and watch it. It's so crazy to see two guys at the very top of the heap, the best in the world,

just throwing caution to the wind and winging punches at each other. It was so crazy. And Hagler just forced Hearns into a dogfight because Hagler knew like, you know, do you know Hagler just forced Hearns into a dogfight. Yep. Because Hagler knew, like, you know, do you know Hagler had extraordinary musculature on the side of his head that was so thick it was almost like he was built with headgear on? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, it was crazy. Like, see if you can find an article on that. But they did an MRI on Hagler's head while he was alive.

And one of the things that they said is, like, the amount of, like, the mandible muscles, the muscles that like- Or temporalis muscle. Is that what it is? Yeah. That they're so thick. They're like three times normal size.

They're like, it's crazy. It's like he was born to fight. But it's also his will and the conditioning. His conditioning was legendary. Yeah. He'd run with combat boots on the winter on the beach. I conditioning was legendary. Yeah. He'd run with combat boots on the winter on the beach. I mean, he was just a monster. I just did everything

to emulate Hagler when I was a kid. It was just... And when he, quote unquote, lost to Sugar Ray Leonard, I was in eighth grade and all the girls in my class to tease me

put bags of sugar on my desk the next day. Oh, my God. I mean, it was just like, you know. Those dirty bitches. I was so pissed. I always felt when I watched that fight like Hagler was holding back. Yeah.

So as you know, right, like Leonard bought the fight, right? So basically, and this is the only thing I just wish I could undo in history. Hagler was so adamant about making more than Leonard in that fight that he conceded on three things that he shouldn't have conceded on. So Leonard is all, you know, I don't think Leonard deserved more money than Hagler, right? He was coming out of retirement. He had just been knocked on his ass by Kevin Howard a few years earlier. Like, I don't know why he should be top bill. Hagler was undisputed middleweight champion of the world. But nevertheless, because he's Leonard,

the promoters were going to give him more money. And Hagler was like, oh, hell no. I get paid the most. And in exchange, he conceded to the following. Bigger gloves, larger ring, 12 instead of 15 rounds. Leonard got three out of three things that he wanted. Now, just imagine any one of those things is undone. I thought they had already stopped doing 15 rounds.

No, this would have been the end of it because it was the summer of 87 when the IBF switched to 12 rounds. So that's right after Duk-Ku Kim died. No, Duk-Ku Kim died in 82. Really? Yeah. So one of the federations, one of the three had already-

I thought that was when they ended it. No, one of them had switched to 12. But because Hagler was undisputed, this still could have been a 15 round fight. Oh, wow. And so just think about how that fight's different with three more rounds. Yeah. Or with smaller gloves or with a smaller ring. Smaller gloves made a big impact.

Yeah. Were they 10s? I can't remember if they were 10s instead twelves or eights instead of tens, but it was, you know. It can't be twelves, right? I don't remember. I used to know every detail of this. Twelves is crazy.

Twelves is so big. Yeah. Especially when I think of MMA with four, you know. MMAs have those little tiny little gloves on. They're doing a lot of fights in 1FC now where they have kickboxing matches with MMA gloves. It's wild. You ever meet Benny the Jet, your Kiedis? No, I have not.

That's another dude. Yeah. That was my kickboxing idol. Yeah, mine as well. I'd like to get him on the podcast. I've talked about getting him on. I've got to reach out. I met his cousin, Blinky, Blinky Rodriguez, when I was living in California when I first moved there.

There's two places that I had to go to. One was a comedy store and two was the Jet Center. And I went to the Jet Center when I moved there in 94 and it was right after the big earthquake. And the building that the Jet Center was in got fucked up by the earthquake. And the problem was when the rain season came the building was a mess because it just started leaking everywhere it got really cracked open and they had to move so then they moved to north hollywood and i trained there for a while too but just wasn't the same the the jet center in van nuys was where it was at. And Blinky, who I believe had lost his son to gang violence.

I hope I'm not fucking this up. But he, because of that, had this sort of outreach program where he would work with all the gang members. And so I was sparring with these hardcore gang members. And I was good. So it was a real problem so I was like you know I was don't be too good 26 at the time somewhere around then so it was only like a few years five years removed from me fighting and so uh I was uh still sparring and I was still

training on a regular basis and I'd get in there with these like hardcore gang members with like just covered in tattoos and but they had no skills and you know I just be real nice to them just like please don't fucking shoot me after this you know I remember um dropping this guy with a body shot and going oh no and then he got up he's like yeah it's a was a good shot, good shot. I was like, oh, thank you. But he would have these guys come in that were, you know, like right off the street and try to give them some focus and give them something that they could do to, you know, channel their aggressive energy and also give them some self-esteem, like develop some skills. And, you know, and they had a real idol in blinky like blinky rodriguez i don't know if you ever saw him fight but he was a bad man he was the first guy to knock out john eve

terrio oh really yeah when john eve terrio was what a blast from the past yeah john eve terrio was the fucking man and blinky knocked him out with a left hook. I mean, flatlined him. See if we can find that. Blinky Rodriguez KO's Jean-Yves Theriot. It was in the pants days, the pants kickboxing days. We had to wear pants. Yep. It wasn't like the kickboxing days. I love the pants days. Remember Bill Wallace?

Yes. Super foot. He was a fucking man. Is he still alive? Yes, he is. Yeah, he's still throwing kicks. So here it is. Look how bad the fucking- The VHS is. Yeah, he's still throwing kicks. So here it is. Like, look how bad the fucking, the resolution is.

The VHS is? Yeah, look at this. So Jean-Yves Thériault. Oh, that looks like a leg kick. Was that a leg kick? It's hard to tell. I mean, we're talking about like the 1980s. Yeah, it was a leg kick.

Interesting. That's interesting. Because they're leg kicking with pants on. Really unusual, right? But, so this fight, I don't remember. Yeah, they're throwing. Oh, there it is. Look at that.

So he threw a low kick with the right and then left hooked him. Show that one more time. So watch this. It's a beautiful setup. Boom. So he spun him around with the low kick and then flatlined him. And Jean-Yves Theriot went on to be like a absolute destroyer. I mean, he was like one of the very best kickboxers of that era

and just would fucking kill people. He was so good. But that fight, Blinky Rodriguez flatlined him. And Blinky was kind of like, you know, he was a legend in the kickboxing world. And he did a lot of commentary too. I remember listening to a lot of commentary he did for kickboxing. But that gym was, you know, like if you talk about like all-time famous kickboxing gyms united states that's probably number one right i think so yeah i mean when i was a kid that was like i mean that seemed like

the only place to go yeah well yeah benny was i mean his fucking style was amazing he was so aggressive he was so he had such an incredible technique too and he was like one of the first guys that like was that entered into kickboxing that got he was so good that he got people paying attention it wasn't a lot of people paying attention to kickboxing back then yeah unless you're dorks like us yeah unless you're dorks like us yeah yeah i didn't even know about muay thai i didn't know anybody that fought muay thai until i was uh doing regular kickboxing in 1988 and there's this dude who i was friends with who was training at this one gym where this guy was going back and forth to thailand i was like why is he going to thailand i was like he goes over there and fights he goes over there and trains

and lives there for a few months and fights. And I thought this guy was the craziest guy I'd ever met. This dude from Massachusetts who just would go over to Thailand and he would train for many months at a time. It's like, you know, in 1988. I was like, what is he doing? Like, yeah, he sleeps on the floor, lives in Thailand and goes to a temple every day. I'm like, what the fuck? I spent two years doing Muay Thai in college and absolutely loved it.

But man, it's a different level of pain. Oh, yeah. It's a totally different level of pain. Leg pain is not fun. And then the next day. Yeah, it's, I mean, basically, I was like, the thing I had going for me is I had a really good spinning back kick, right?

So you could bring that from Taekwondo. And so it kept the opponents a little bit less eager to get that close, right? And so, but of course, as you know, like you have to be able to keep that front foot so light. Otherwise, it's just going to get ripped off. Well, that's the thing about MMA is that like you can't, like very few people have that Thai style. And then Khalil Roundtree is probably the very best example, especially in the Eric Anders fight.

He went to Thailand, went over there, like after a Johnny Walker knockout, became obsessed with Muay Thai and came over. And then when he fought Eric Anders, everybody was like, Jesus Christ, look at Khalil. He looked like a Thai fighter. He's really light on the front leg and these crazy kicks. He just became obsessed with Muay Thai. But most fighters, they're doing things to mitigate leg kicks, like switching stances or throwing a lot of feints.

But because of the takedown defense and because of also the takedowns themselves, you've got to kind of incorporate a different stance. Yeah, because it's a very exposed stance, right, if a guy is not going to fight that style. Right. Because you have to be kind of front-facing to be able to stay light on that. Especially wrestlers. I mean, if a guy fights with a Thai style with a very

light front leg with a wrestler he's just gonna fucking power double him into the corner and that's a wrap yeah it's so interesting to me like watching MMA like how people are trying to incorporate all these different techniques

and there's all these adjustments that have to be made Well new new techniques come into play like the calf kick The calf kick has kind of changed most of MMA because it's so devastating It's like one of those techniques where you get a couple of those and all sudden your leg is screwed up Like you can't really move good anymore Even if it looks like you can move good, you're really kind of hobbling on that one leg. You're masking it with switching of stances and moving, but you're in agony. You're

in agony. Your left leg is just completely fucked. Man, I feel so fortunate that I somehow escaped 10 years of getting hit without more damage. Yeah, I think that too. I mean, I don't know how much damage I actually have though. Sometimes I wonder about like- How many concussions do you ever get? Do you know? Oh, I've had a lot. I have no idea. I have no idea.

I got one skiing a couple years ago. My last time skiing. I'm like, I'm done. I fucked my knee up and I fucking banged my head hard. Some lady was like really new and she didn't know what she was doing. And she's like kind of sliding into the middle of the trail and like oh Jesus Christ I came around this corner and as I come around this corner this lady's just like sliding into the trail and these either kill her or fall down and

so I went to try to get around her I knew I was gonna fall anyway I could there's no way I just couldn't adjust quick enough. And I fucking skis went out from under me. Bang, my head. Back of my head off the ground. And the whole rest of the day I was just like confused. And like I couldn't, my coordination was off. Everything was screwy.

Like I went to get on the chairlift and I fell. Oh. Like an old man. And I couldn't get back up. The lady had to help me up. And I was like, what is wrong with me? And I wrote, Hey, stupid, you have a concussion. And I was like, Oh, okay. I had a really bad one in 93. And, um, it actually, it was so bad that you could see the cerebral contusions on my head in a seat i had a ct scan and i was for

two to three months i had a headache it wouldn't go away for two to three months how did you get it uh sparring yeah i used to do this dumb thing where i was a middleweight so i would fight i would spar two rounds with a welterweight two rounds with a middleweight two rounds with light heavyweight so i wanted to to kind of, so each, the opponent would be fresh for two rounds. So I was getting more and more tired as the opponent is getting stronger, but slower. Were you competing? Uh, no, I had stopped competing by this point. So there was literally no reason for me to be doing this. This was so dumb. This is like, I was in college at this point, right? So I'm a college student who would still train really, really hard.

And on the fifth round, so the first round with that guy who's a light heavyweight, I just remember his name was Mike. And this was a, even by the standards of a light heavyweight, he hit like a mule. He just was, he was, he was, he's such a hard shot. And I just, on that particular day, I was just not feeling good, but I just didn't listen to myself, right? I was like, you're going to finish these six rounds no matter what, even though I felt horrible. And he got me with straight right after straight right after straight right. And at the end of those six rounds, I went down to cool off on the speed bag. And just, you know, for people watching who don't know what that's like, like hitting a speed bag, you shouldn't feel anything. Like

there's no weight to the dumb thing, right? But just the impact of the side of my hand on the speed bag made it feel like I was getting kicked in the head. Oh, my God. And I went home that day, passed out, had no recollection of anything, got up the next day to run, couldn't run. I mean, so finally two days of this,

and I sheepishly told my parents i'm like i think something's wrong you know so we anyway go to the hospital i get a ct scan they're like yeah you've got you know contusions on your brain um and they were like wait a minute you're an engineering student like what the hell are you doing yeah and i was like dude i've been doing this for like 10 years i know what i'm doing doing. They're like, you're an idiot. Yeah, I know quite a few students who were in college who were also actively sparring in MMA, and I'd watch them get after it,

and I knew that they relied on their brain, and this was just for fun. I was like, God, it's such a risky endeavor. It's so dangerous because you're going to get hit. It's not like anything else. Like even in skiing, like falling down and hitting your head like that is kind of rare. Like it only happened to me once or all the years that I was skiing. But getting hit in the head happens every time you spar.

Unless you're like so exceptional and Willie Pepp, your fucking Pernell Whitaker out there. Wilford Benitez. You know, it's interesting. I was watching, well, even Wilford Benitez got stopped, you know. I was watching Willie Pepp. There was a documentary or a YouTube video, rather, on Willie Pepp. And he actually was fine and lucid as he was older, which is really interesting. Like, that guy had more than 200 fights.

Isn't it amazing, like, how much those guys fought back then? Oh, my God. But you look at like Sugar Ray Robinson when he was older. It was so sad. It was such a shame. Henry Armstrong was okay at the end of his life, wasn't he? Was he? I think so.

That guy was amazing. George Foreman seems fine. Yeah. It's crazy, you know? Of all those old timers, if I could go back and meet any of them, I'd like to have met Dempsey. Really? Yeah. I bet it was like you're meeting a wolf.

Yeah. I bet he was like a wolf. He just seemed so savage. When I was young, I was obsessed with historical boxing. I would sort of track down the old VHS of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Lewis, all that stuff. VHS of like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Lewis, all that stuff. I had not all of their fights, but quite a few of their fights on, on, you know, crappy old black and white VHS. But like Dempsey was in a different world. Like when you think about how much he changed the sport, when he fought Jess Willard, that was an overnight change in boxing that never went back. Cause remember

prior to that very different style right you look at jack johnson it was like they never threw combinations right it was like one punch one punch well they also fought like 100 rounds yeah exactly which is crazy they had to like preserve their yeah it was it was easily a 45 round fight they're fighting in like cuba in the summer god did you ever see the video video when Jack Johnson fought for the title where they converted, I think it was Reno. They converted the town just to have that event there and all the guys with their hats on. Yeah.

So men used to wear that very specific hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really weird to watch those old videos. And he was unbelievable. Oh, my God. Again, Jack Johnson was a total step up in size and strength. Yeah. And then Dempsey, not that big, but just ferocious.

Yeah. Dempsey only weighed like 190 pounds. I know. He was like 6'1", 195. Rocky Marciano. Rocky was probably 5'9". Yeah. Yeah, 5'9", 5'10".

He weighed 185 pounds. Yeah. And just flatlining people as a heavyweight, which is crazy. Now, it's a different heavyweight, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's- People were different then. They didn't have food.

I mean, Jack Johnson, they called him the Galveston Giant. He was 6'2". Yeah, he was huge. I mean, but back then, that was a big deal. Look at him. Look at all those folks with the hats on. That's what drives it. I mean, that's so weird that that style was so prevalent.

It was everywhere, wearing that hat, that stupid fucking hat. It's daytime, too, though. Maybe they needed it because they have sunglasses oh yeah right probably maybe yeah I'm definitely think that played a part but they also had one of those hats it's so interesting to think like you know when you think about what the world was like in terms of how racist it was and how much the establishment hated Jack Johnson and and you know as you know, I mean, basically

after he finally lost, they were like, okay, that's it. No more black heavyweights. And even when you get to fight for the, it looked a lot like he threw that fight. I know. If you notice his hand up there shading himself from the sun. Yeah. You never know. They might've been threatening him. Right. Exactly. They were probably there. That was it there at the bottom. I saw that picture. Um, yep. That one. Yeah. Yeah. So that's Jess Willard standing over him and he kind of looked like he was

like, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it's very likely in a lot of people's eyes that he threw that fight. I mean, you know,

when you get to a certain point in time, you're just tired of fighting off all these fucking white racists. Maybe just take the money and lay down and just fade off in the distance. You just want it to end. I mean, the guy was persecuted his entire life. The level of hate that he experienced, we will probably never be able to understand it. Because, you know, you're really only a few decades removed from the Civil War. And this guy is the heavyweight champion of the world the first ever black heavyweight champion and also and how big was boxing at the time like the significance of being heavyweight champion

of the world it was everything and he looks unbeatable that was the other thing it wasn't just that he was the first black heavyweight champion he was the first black heavyweight champion but he he was like mike tyson in his prime yeah it's like a whole new first black heavyweight champion, but he was like Mike Tyson in his prime. It was like a whole new level of heavyweight. And, of course, you know, I mean, we could debate that forever and ever is Ali or Lewis, who is the best heavyweight of all time. But I think for, I mean, I don't know. I always have such sadness over the fact that we never got to see Ali fight from 67 to 71. Yeah, it's true. Those three years where he protested the Vietnam War, in many ways that cemented Ali's legacy because he was such a cultural icon that he was like, you know what?

Fuck you. I'm not going to Vietnam. You guys are out of your fucking minds. No Viet Cong ever said anything bad to me. I'm not going to Vietnam and killing people. Fuck you. And they just removed him from boxing. They wouldn't let him box for years.

And by the time he boxed again, people were so happy to see him again because they knew he was right. They knew that war was bullshit. They knew it was wrong. And he became who he was the last when he fought cleveland big cat williams i was just about to say that is the greatest display of in any division any weight at any time just watch ali versus williams november 1966 you can find that full fight on youtube it's a pretty decent resolution. We've played it multiple times on this podcast.

It is insane. I'll tell you a funny story. So I have, I used to have in my old office in San Diego, a big art print on the wall of that fight. So of the knockout punch. So one day it was a Friday afternoon. One of my analysts was in my office and we were, you know, he's at the time, he's probably like 25 years old, right? And we're doing something, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I don't know what made me think this, but I looked up at the picture and I was like, hey, do you know who that is? Who, you know?

And he's like, uh, is that Muhammad Ali? And I was like, yeah, that's Muhammad Ali. Like, isn't it interesting that you wouldn't immediately recognize that? And I explained the significance and I said, that's him knocking out this guy named Cleveland Williams. And this is the whole story of Cleveland Williams. And I said, let's pull up the fight and we watch the fight. You know, it's a three round fight. The next day Ali died. Wow. So I text, I emailed him the next morning cause I found out that morning. I was like, Hey Dan, just so you know, Muhammad Ali died last night. How weird is that? That is weird. He was a cautionary tale right because the amount of punishment that he endured late in his life and to see him with Parkinson's When you know, I remember having this argument with someone who said no no, he's got Parkinson's

He says nothing to do with boxing. Oh, shut the fuck up Shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're why how what are you examining him? Like why he said you just don't want it to have anything to do with him you watch his fight with larry holmes tell me tell me you don't think that he endured brain damage in that fight watch watch his fight with uh who else so so basically everything trevor burbick yeah trevor burbick um even leon spinks yeah uh and certainly holmes i mean he never should have fought after his— He should have retired after Foreman. Yeah.

Because the beatings he took thereafter. And in fact, going into the Holmes fight, I mean, his doctor—by that point, Ferdie Pacheco had left. He couldn't stand it anymore. So Ferdie Pacheco was no longer his doctor. Oh, really? No, no. He was like, this is so unethical. I cannot be involved. What you guys are doing to this man is inhumane. And of course, you know, what was,

what was his manager's name at this point? Herbert Muhammad. Um, remember the son of Elijah Muhammad was still his manager and they had pumped him so full of T4 levothyroxine thyroid medication to speed up his metabolism. He went into that fight basically with exophthalmos. I mean, his eyes were basically bulging out of his head. He was so hyperthyroid in that fight. They could have killed him, right? They could have just killed him because he would have had an arrhythmia.

Why did they do that? Was he overweight? Why did they do that with T4? They just had this belief that, oh, he needs more thyroid hormone to, yeah, speed up his metabolism. And, of course, he's always going into camp overweight at this point and needs more energy, right? So the thinking is, well, more thyroid hormone will make him have more energy. But I mean, I remember reading one of the biographies of Ali. I think it was, might've been Thomas Hauser's biography, where he goes into pretty good detail on the state of his medical care at the end of his career and just how horrible it was.

God, it's a story as old as time. The fighter that keeps hanging on. That's the other thing I kind of respect about Hagler. As much as I just hated the fact that he retired and didn't come back and smoke Leonard, he just said, that's it, I'm done. Yeah, but that's also what fueled the conspiracy theorist in me because he went to Italy. Because I'm like, hold the fuck on.

So his managers and his trainers were the Petronelli brothers. That's right, Goody and Pat. Yeah, they're boxing trainers who are fucking Italian as shit. The odds of them knowing someone in the mob are quite high okay and then you have this fight with leonard where man even to me watching it because i watched it um that was back when they had closed circuit yeah so for people who don't know what that means you would go to the movie theater or you would go to uh you know any kind of a theater that would have a large screen. And you would pay money to go watch the fight in an audience. And so I actually watched quite a few fights like that.

I watched Tyson Spinks like that. Oh, wow. How good a use of money was that? Wow. Yeah. 91 seconds. Whatever it was. But watching that live, I was like, I feel like he's not trying to hurt him.

It was weird. It was like he's not trying to hurt him. It was weird. It was like the punches didn't seem the same. It almost seemed like he was taking something off the punches. Well, certainly the first four rounds. The first four rounds, I didn't understand why he was being tentative. Well, I mean. Because he woke up in round five. Yeah.

But in a 12-round fight, you know, like I said, I still believe he won. Yeah, I believe... Because he woke up in round five. Yeah. But in a 12-round fight, it's hard. Like I said, I still believe he won seven rounds. I was shocked at the decision after it was over, but I remember going home thinking, God, it just seemed like he didn't have any pop on his punches, which for Hager is crazy because Hager was a fucking murderous puncher. It just seemed like he didn't try to hurt him. It seems crazy.

But then the decision comes, and then Hagler just disappeared and went to Italy and became a movie star. And I was like, oh, well, what a great deal. I mean, how else does he become a fucking movie star in Italy? He goes into Italy, does the worst movies you've ever seen in your life. You ever watch those movies? Never watched them. Here's some of them. They were so dumb.

These movies were so dumb. Like, look at this. And never fought again. But never fought again. I mean, just he did these cornball movies and, you know, was like the Jean-Claude Van Damme of Italy. They were horrible movies. I mean, I don't even know if he ever learned Italian. He just went over there.

Had a good fucking time. Look at these. They throw punches and people are flying through the air. These are so bad. You got to remember, like, Italy, that was where they are flying through the air. These are so bad. You got to remember like Italy, that was where they – look, he punched right through his chest. Italy was where they did all those – He was so handsome though. Oh, my God.

He was so handsome. And, you know, really never was compromised from his fighting career. It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it breaks my heart that he died so prematurely. Yeah, he was hospitalized after he got vaccinated. Tommy Hearns put it on his Instagram that he was in the hospital because of a side effect of the vaccine. It's one of those things that's like not really talked about because no one's sure if it's – is that what happened to him?

I remember the day he died seeing that. Yeah. And then – actually, it was just sort of weird. Like a couple months ago, I was just thinking about it again. I went to his wiki page, no mention of it. Well, that's pretty obvious what's going on there. You know, that's the amount of people that had, have had issues with the vaccine versus the amount of people reported. Like, I don't know what the real numbers are. I don't think anybody does because there's a lot of reluctance to talk about it. It's very interesting.

You know, I've had friends that have vaccine injuries that went to the doctor and the doctor didn't want to report them in the VAERS. It's the whole thing is very weird. But Tommy Hearns wrote on his Instagram, I think, believe it was his Instagram that to pray for Marvin because they're still friends even after that Marvin was in the hospital because of a side effect of the vax. Again, I don't know if that's true. I don't know if Tommy was wrong. I don't know if he was incorrect. But something happened and he died.

I would have loved to have met him. But what a great way to end a career. Just go, that's it. Done. See ya. So many guys just hang out too long. but what a great way to end a career. Just go, that's it done. See ya. So many guys just hang out too long. You know, there's so many guys that just get battered.

Did you watch the, uh, Benavidez plant fight this weekend? I, I have stopped watching boxing altogether. I don't know anything about the sport, Joe, to be honest with you. It's really weird for someone who was so obsessed with the sport

growing up, basically around 2000, I just stopped. Really? Yeah. How come? I mean, I think part of it is being in residency. I just didn't have the time. Like basically all the things I loved, like I didn't watch Formula One, you know, I kind of stopped watching Formula One at that time. No, I think by 97 was the last year I watched F1 until I got back into it again, like a decade later. Stopped watching boxing. Didn't watch a single Super Bowl, let alone a single football game. Yeah, I just went completely off the grid for a decade. I guess that makes sense though. You kind of have to just to focus. You don't have the time for that kind of recreation. Well, I mean, I used all my rec time to train. I mean, it was sort of like I was going to sort of swimming was the thing I was doing.

So that not takes up so much time. Do you still watch UFC? I never have. Never have watched the UFC? Not one. I mean, I would love to go with you. You've extended me the invitation many times. I will go at some point.

You should go to Miami next weekend. Well, I can't. I'm going to see Taylor Swift. That's the most opposite UFC thing ever. It's so funny that you're a Swifty. You've become a Swifty. I'm enjoying embracing and supporting my daughter's obsession with Taylor Swift. We're going to see two shows, actually.

We're going to Houston and Arlington. Oh, my goodness. Well, because we got lucky, right? You didn't get lucky. No, no, for me. You stop it. What would you rather do? Let me ask you this.

Oh, I'd probably rather go see Taylor Swift. Really? Yeah. Interesting. I think it's going to be an unbelievable show. I'm sure it is. Well, what did your girls say? Well, they loved it. You wouldn't go? Really? Yeah. Interesting. I think it's going to be an unbelievable show. I'm sure it is. Well, what did your girls say?

Well, they loved it. You wouldn't go? If I had to, I'd go. It's not that I don't think Taylor Swift is a talented artist. She's very talented. I like some of her songs. It's not my thing, though. Would you have Taylor on the podcast? Would that be fun?

Sure. She's brilliant. Yeah. And she's also an amazing songwriter. I love her dedication and the fact that like, I mean, she's at the top of the heap. Anybody that's at the top of the heap is amazing. But she's so talented. Like she's, she blows my mind actually.

Like five years ago when my daughter was into her, I was like, eh, whatever. Like it didn't, but if you, I mean, not to get too down the rabbit hole, but if you look at the progression of her music and how it's grown up with her, you know, you think about what she was doing in, you know, circa 2008, 2007 versus what she's doing today and the lyrics. I mean, I'm super impressed. And also just, like, her commitment to her fans is pretty amazing. Well, my wife and my daughter went to see her at that giant Raiders stadium in Vegas. And she sent me a video of what the place looks like. I'm like, oh, my God.

Chappelle and I have talked about doing a gig there. That would be wild. Doing a gig in front of 60,000 people. Have you done – Bananas. Do comedians play huge things like Wembley and stuff like that? The biggest place Dave and I have done is 25,000. We did – we sold out the Tacoma Dome in Tacoma.

We broke the attendance record for the Tacoma Dome, and that was like 25,000-something people. That's nuts. Hearing laughs from 25,000 people is so surreal. It's so surreal. I remember one time in the middle of one of my bits, you know, I hit a punchline. Everybody's laughing. And I just start laughing.

I'm like, this is so crazy. Because the laughs are so loud. It's so, you're looking around. And we're in the round too, right? So it's just like this circle. And we're moving around. And at the end, Dave and I go up and we do this uh q a thing where we just fuck around he loves to do that after shows i like to do it too it's very fun where but you know so

he i go up i do like 45 minutes he goes up he does like an hour and and also donnell wrongs was on this show um ian edwards was on this show we Ian Edwards was on this show. It's a long-ass show. And then we go up afterwards, and we're just standing and talking to people. And I was like, there is not enough security in the world for this to be safe. This is so wild that there's all these people here. And people are yelling shit out, and Dave is riffing on things. And it's just so many people so to have that times two like two and a half yeah that's crazy

no it's do you remember when mtv or i don't know if it's mtv they used to do the where are they now things yeah of musicians and it was always the same story right every one right so it's always the same story which is uh started out with nothing, became really famous, too much drugs, everything went to hell in a handbasket trying to make it back. It was the same story. You just plugged in a different musician every time. But I remember my roommate and I in college or whatever, we'd watch some of this and we'd be like, imagine this was like a Metallica concert.

And you're like like look at metallica in its heyday yeah like there's 90 000 people out there oh yeah screaming in unison as you're singing it's like we were like i couldn't fathom what that's like well be real was on the show and when he talked about cypress hill playing, was it Woodstock? Woodstock. Half a million. And he played a video for us where he showed them on stage singing Insane in the Membrane. Can you even see the limit of people? Can you see where it ends?

You kind of can. You kind of can, but it's like looking over a large lake. Wow. It was so nuts. Half a million people. And they're on stage. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, those kind of numbers are nuts, man.

I mean, it's like there's just a spectacle of it all. It's like, you know, when they have ACL here and you go to some of the bigger shows here, it's like part of what you're going to is the spectacle of it all. Yeah, look at that. 1994. Look how look at that. 1994. Look how crazy that is. I mean, that is... When you see them on stage and you see a shot from behind them

so you get to see them and, like, facing the crowd, it is so big. Wow. Look at the... I mean, there's not enough security in the world to protect you if they just all just rushed the stage.

ACL this year, seeing the Chili Peppers from behind the stage was amazing. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, I enjoyed that. First time I've ever seen them in concert. Oh, really? Yep. I mean, I've been a fan forever. I've never been to a, I've never seen them in concert.

I mean, Rick's has given us, you know. Yeah. Yeah, they're cool, man. There's,'s that's it's fun to watch you know and and you look anthony is like dancing around like that like he's 60 years old he's got a fucked up knee afterwards he's icing his knee and draining and his ankle too or something right i mean they're they dance around so much there's so much going on like so many those guys, you don't think of them as athletes. But as they get older, like all those years of repetitive stress, like Maynard from Tool, he had to get a hip replacement because of stomping on the ground like while he's on stage.

That's what did his hip in. I mean, did you see Flea still does a flip? Oh, yeah. I mean. Wild. He's 60 years old. He walks around did his hip in. I mean, did you see Flea still does a flip? Oh yeah. I mean, wild. He's 60 years old. I know. It's hard to believe Anthony is 60. Yeah. He just doesn't look 60. No, he looks great. He looks great. I mean, I don't know what he's doing. He should be writing a longevity book. He does look great. I mean, he's obviously lean. He's taking care of himself. He obviously exercises, but his knee is pretty fucked up. So I had a conversation with him about stem cells and all the different things that I've done to sort of mitigate some of the knee problems that I've had.

But his knee looks pretty bad. It looks pretty bad. But the dudes out there are just fucking jumping around and dancing around. And so many people wind up getting fucked up. Steven Tyler had to get knee replacements. You know, Ted Nugent got knee replacements. He told me he was jumping off amplifiers and destroyed his meniscus. Yeah, I mean, you don't think of those guys as athletes, but they're doing so many shows

and they're on the road so many days a year stomping on the ground and jumping around and all that energy. You know, it's like your body doesn't like it. So many guys I know from jujitsu. I just was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night about it who needs two shoulder replacements. I'm like, Jesus Christ. It's like these hidden epidemic of injuries that you don't realize.

Is the shoulder the most susceptible joint? The back. The back and knees. The back is the most. Back and knees. Shoulder too, though. I don't think there's any one that's more susceptible, but those are the ones that blow out. It's kind of like everything that can go goes

because you think about what jiu-jitsu is. It's like it's martial art where you're trying to break people's joints. You're trying to destroy people's joints or strangle them unconscious. So the joints all get ripped to shit. Like, everybody's shoulders are fucked. Everybody's elbows are fucked.

Everybody's knees are fucked. Their necks. You're always, like, fighting off chokes. And if you don't exercise your neck, you know, your neck becomes very vulnerable. So many people have bulging discs in their back, lower back in particular. Neck and lower back is cervical and lumbar. Those are the two ones, the major areas. You know, occasionally thoracic.

But there's a lot of disc issues in jiu-jitsu. And a lot of guys are turning to stem cells now and doing stuff in Columbia and Tijuana where they can just fucking experiment on you, just fucking jam them in there. But shoulders are a big one. And a lot of times guys don't want to stop training, so they train injured. And then they wind up destroying it even more, and then it can't be repaired, and they need a replacement. So then you have some mechanical shoulder. You know, the good thing is shoulder replacements have come a hell of a long way.

Yeah. You can function pretty well post-shoulder replacement now in a way that you couldn't. Athletically? Like you could do jiu-jitsu again? No, that's a good point. I don't know that you could do that. I bet you could still do archery, though. Yeah, I bet.

Michael Bisping from the UFC, the former UFC middleweight champion, he got both of his knees replaced post-fighting. 40 years old. His knees destroyed. Just destroyed. Did you see Shaq on a hip replacement recently? Oh no! Did he really? A week ago and this is him walking back to the gym.

Oh my god. The biggest hip of all time. Oh my god. Imagine designing that guy's hip he probably they probably had to make a new kind of hip it's like a completely different size right yeah i mean speaking of hip replacements you know the one that always bums me out is that bo jackson oh yeah you know ends up getting a vascular like you know that i don't end up getting what he ended up getting avascular necrosis when he like so when his hip dislocated it tore the blood supply to the um to

the femoral neck and the acetabulum and um i don't i mean he ended up getting a hip replacement but it's like if they had seen if they had the problem is I think he was too tough, right? Because they didn't do an MRI on his hip for months after that injury, which is kind of crazy when you think about how the NFL would work today, right? Right. If your star running back is complaining of hip pain after a game and has to miss the game, like after that tackle he was out of the game, like they could have done an MRI and a CT scan that day.

I think they could have salvaged his hip. Really? That's like one of those athletes where I just think like we got really deprived. What would they do with the hip? I think today you could actually go and repair it. You could put an X-fix on him and – What's an X-fix? External fixator on his hip and –

What is that? It's just like a way to actually fix the bone externally. So you, you, you put like screws into the femoral neck right away out of the gate, um, as opposed to kind of letting it bleed off and lose its blood supply. Um, I talked to an orthopedic surgeon about this like a little while ago, who's a hip guy. And I said like,

if, if Bo Jackson had that injury today, how likely is it that he would have had, had a hip replacement? He goes like, if they had scanned him right away, they probably could have salvaged that hip. That's a dude I would love to meet. He's so obsessed with archery.

You know he can't pull a bow back anymore? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, he uses a crossbow now. Oh, man. Yeah, his shoulders are fucked. Again, it's just, I mean, that fucking sport. You want to talk about a sport that's hard on you. Getting tackled by 300-plus pound super athletes.

I mean, the size of football. I had Derek Wolf in here a couple weeks ago. How much does he weigh? 300. He's a literal Viking viking like he should be at the front of a boat blowing a fucking conch shell letting everybody know he's going to start raping and murdering oh what's amazing too is at 300 pounds they can run faster than most 150 pound people like their speed is insane well Well, the muscle, I mean,

it's just, there's different kinds of people out there. You know, it's just, the world's not fair. You don't think we're all equal? Not in that way. No, no, no. I think we're all, we're all equal in the eyes of the Lord. I agree. equal in the eyes of the Lord. I agree. But equality does not exist physically, which is just,

you know, just a fact. That's why we have weight classes. It's why we should have the difference between females and males competing against each other, which is why I get, you know, this trans athlete thing fucking blows my mind how many people go along with this it just blows didn't didn't they ruling

just come down on powerlifting I'm sorry on weightlifting that that you you cannot compete in you like if a male transitions to a female he can't compete as a female well that if the transition occurred after puberty. Yes, that certainly should be the case. That certainly should be the case. I think there is some ruling that just came down like that. But swimming, I mean, that Leah Thomas is still the number one swimmer in the world, and it's a biological male. Period.

End of discussion. It's madness. And not only that, hasn't even gotten a penis removed and has sex with women apparently. Just the whole thing is so crazy that you can call yourself a woman and then you're a woman. And like, this has nothing to do with trans rights. It just has to do with humans. Like with, there's a reason why we make a distinction, why men are not allowed to compete in the women's division. But if you could just decide you're a woman and you compete in the women's division and no one's even allowed to regulate like what that means and if you have any any problem with

that you're transphobic like has nothing to do with transphobia we're talking about fairness and sports it's crazy it is absolutely crazy that this is still going on and that you know here goes similar ruling in swimming also. Ah, they vote to restrict transgender women from elite swimming. What is the FINA? FINA is the ruling body of swimming. Okay, so they voted just Sunday, but that says June 19, 2022. Yeah, I was just looking at Leah Thomas' wiki.

But that's – the problem is that she's doing it through – NC2A. Yeah, it's a different thing. What is it? Yeah, NC2A wiki. But that's – the problem is that she's doing it through – NC2A. Yeah, it's a different thing. What is it? Yeah, NC2A. She wanted to go to the Olympics. Although didn't she graduate? Yeah, she's done with that.

So she wanted to go to the Olympics. Yeah, it was basically saying she can't compete as an – Well, you know, it's just what they've done to those other girls that are competing against her is just a fucking crime. It's horrible. Imagine if you're a biological woman. You are working your ass off. You are fully dedicated to being the best of the best. You're dotting all your I's and crossing all your T's.

You are watching your diet. You're watching your recovery. You are fucking trying. And this person who just decides they're a woman with testosterone flowing through their body for their entire life just dominates you it's fucking maddening and it's fucking maddening that we have gotten into this ideological battle this this this cultural end of the road ideological battle where we're allowing

that and where people will step up and virtue signal and defend this that it like is, is if it has anything to do with being compassionate and considerate and, and trans rights or LBGTQ plus AI, whatever the fuck it is, rights. It's nonsense. It's, we are a society that needs a real problem. And we are fixating on these fucking very strange issues and deciding that we're going to correct all the inequities and inequality in the world by allowing these people to express their truth. And you're encouraging mental illness. You're encouraging virtue signaling.

You're encouraging mass ideology, this ideological capture of an entire culture where people know things aren't true. You know it's not right. You know it's not accurate. You know it's not scientifically true. And yet people have to espouse these certain things because if they don't, they'll be labeled transphobic. I mean, it's so fucking wild. And I never thought it was going to happen like this. I think the worst example is when male prisoners can somehow weasel their way into women's prisons. There's a shit ton of them in California. Yeah, no, that's... California, like, there's more than 40 of them that have made their way into prisons.

And there's hundreds of them that are under review right now. It's crazy. They go to prison and get women pregnant. So that not only are they saying that they're females, but they don't have to do anything other than say they're females. They don't have to take estrogen. They don't have to get their balls cut off.

They don't have to do anything. They don't have to do anything. Just, I'm a female. Oh, well, we don't want to fuck with you. We definitely want you to go to the place where you're allowed to live your truth, Peter. I mean, Patricia. Get in there. Get in there and start fucking.

It's crazy. It's crazy. And one of them was a guy who is a fucking murderer. The thing about these people that identify as females, like they did this study on inmates that identify as female and want to be moved over to female prisons. There was a large number of them that were sex offenders. Yeah, that's insane. It's wild. So sex offenders, and I mean, how many of them have fucking fake names? How many of them are in prison for fraud?

How many of them have a fake Rolex? And meanwhile, they're a real woman. Can't question that. Criminal aliases, that's beside. Gender is everything. Gender, gender, gender. It's just like the fucking Trump card of the world is gender. It's just like, what is happening?

What is going on? It's such a weird time. Yeah, no, it's an interesting time to be raising kids too. And you see what they come home kind of hearing. I mean, I feel pretty fortunate where we are. Yeah, it's a little different in Texas, but not totally different. You know, my daughter was going to school with this one girl who would get angry if you did not call her they or them. And, uh, she wore makeup and, you know, she looked like a girl, but if you said

her, it's like, okay, you're playing games here. Like this is a game. Yeah. It's like, and even if a person says, look, I'm going to do my best to remember this if it really makes you feel better. But you can't override like your entire lifetime of regular pronouns and remember that you're a they, not a she. Also, you're a biological female and you're wearing makeup and a dress. So this is all nonsense. So we're playing a stupid pronoun game. You know, who would have ever thought if i came to you 20 years ago and dude in 20 years pronouns gonna be a real issue you'd be

like what the fuck is wrong with you that doesn't even make any sense i can safely say i would say i'm gonna take the under on that one pronouns that's gonna be the problem i remember when fallon fox first started fighting women in mma and that it turned out that for the first two fights she was saying that she was a – well, she wasn't telling them that she was biologically male. She just said that that wasn't important, that you – or you shouldn't have access to her medical information. This is a medical issue. No one's business but hers and i was like that is just straight bullshit like that is so crazy and the pushback i got on that i was like whoa what is going on and this was like 2015 2016 something like that i never would have imagined

we would get to the point where this is like a public issue throughout the entire world and that you're dealing with trans athletes wanting to compete and then dominating female sports, breaking records. I mean, someone quoted the – like there's these two trans athletes that were competing as females in Connecticut. two trans athletes that were competing as females in Connecticut. And they were saying that if you looked at their times, like their times, like if you take like an elite female runner, like who's that woman's name? Jackie Joyner. Jackie Joyner Kersey.

Yes. Who's like one of the elite of the elite female runners. High school boys beat her time all the time. That is wild. Yeah. That is fucking wild. So imagine if you're a girl and you're competing in track and field. The same is true in soccer, right? Yeah.

Like a good high school soccer team would crush the women's, the US women's team. Have you seen that Australian biological male who competes in rugby no 240 pounds giant dude competing with women yeah giant dude with lipstick on just running women over it's happening all over the world

I'm just I mean at some point there has to be a lawsuit when one of these women gets hurt well there should be lawsuits that they're getting denied their ability to compete in a fair field, a level playing field. It's not fair. It's not fair. And people make this stupid argument like, oh, well, you know, there are differences

in the spectrum of athletic ability in females. Yeah, there is. But the difference between the highest end of the spectrum of athletic ability in females and the lowest end of the spectrum of professional athletes in males is fucking enormous. It's a fucking Grand Canyon size gap. It's like these dorks that have never competed in anything before. Those are the ones that are proponents of this. Because they think of it as like social justice and social change. And you don't even know what the fuck you're asking for.

You're literally asking for people to cheat because that's what they're doing. They're cheating. Yeah. They're sandbagging. They're sandbagging. Like we get sandbagging all the time in martial arts. You get someone who entered into the white belt division and you're like, that guy is not a fucking white belt. Because people like to win.

They just want to win. It's all the time. You know, in pool, you know what people would do in pool? Not only would they, because there's like these rating systems. So there's certain people that are such pieces of shit, they will enter into tournaments and lose over and over and over and over again on purpose and play like shit on purpose so that their rating is really low. And then they can enter into a tournament and then they get a handicap against someone who's a player of their caliber. So in certain leagues, like say if you and I were playing in a league, there's a bunch of different ones now.

I'm not sure how the Fargo rating goes, but there's other leagues that, like I used to play in a league back in the day, and say if I was better than you because my number is higher than you, I would have to either give you games on the wire or say if we're both going to race to seven, I would have to go to seven, but you would have to go to five or something know something along those lines in some places you actually have to give a spot but so people would lose on purpose just so they can get that and so they can maybe win a tournament just because they want to win people are gross they like to cheat and the idea that that isn't factored into this at all the possibility that people just want to win and want a sandbag. And then also that no one's factoring in the psychological reality of people getting

extraordinary attention for doing this, for transitioning and then for competing and being so brave. And yeah, they get hate. Oh, but people love to concentrate only on the hate. They get a lot of love. They got on the hate they get a lot of love They got a lot of love from a lot of fucking insane liberals out there We're literally out of their mind and don't understand sports and don't understand competition and are just Saying things because Twitter said it Didn't the swimmer at Penn get like athlete of the year or something? Wasn't I could have sworn she was like female athlete of the year at Penn or something like that.

Well, didn't the Biden administration give like woman of the year to some person who's a biological male? Like it's a – we're living in a weird time, man. Because there's things that people do today that they're not doing it because it makes sense. They're doing it because they know it'll get attention. They knew they're doing it because they know that a certain very rabid, very vocal, very aggressive group of people will support it. It's very strange, but it's also psychologically when you look at it like, oh, this makes perfect sense. I see why they would do that, you know, and you see the people that are doing it. Like, I just love it when it falls apart.

Like that fucking wacky person who's non-binary, who's working for the White House, who's stealing women's clothes. Do you know about that person? No. You know the person? No. Sam Brinton was in charge of, was it nuclear waste disposal? Something for the Department of Energy. And this person who has a shaved head and a fucking goatee and a beard

also wears makeup and women's dresses and was stealing women's luggage multiple times from airports. So he'd go to the airport and then would grab somebody else's bag, take it and take their clothes out and just start wearing it. And got caught doing this and said, oh, I didn't know. But meanwhile, I'd taken the clothes out of the luggage and left it in the hotel room. And then they got him on camera stealing luggage from another airport. And they're like, we think there's a fucking pattern here.

And then there was a woman who was a designer from Houston that saw saw him wearing her dresses at an event and she's a designer who's very specific one-of-a-kind clothes and there's photos of him wearing those dresses and her wearing those dresses like it's like they're just playing this weird diversity and oppression game it's very strange can you imagine going back to our earlier discussion about like a hundred years ago, if, I mean, what the problems were then, right? Like, and again, I, you know, one of the things I think about is, um, like it's easy to say, cause I, I don't have any other reference for it, that we're living in the weirdest time, but I don't know if that's true, right? Like, I don't know if political discourse is as bad today or is worse today than it was in the past. I think it's different, right? But, you know, subjectively, is it worse? I'm curious. I want to believe it's not. Have you ever had George Friedman on the podcast?

No. know him, but I'd like to meet him at some point. He's an author and he wrote this book called The Storm Before the Calm. Super interesting book. And he lives out here? Yeah, he lives out here. I actually have reached out to Lawrence Wright, who also lives here, to see if he can introduce me to him. But it's a fascinating book. He's Hungarian, I believe, but has lived in the US for many years. And this book- What is the name of the book again? The Storm Before the Calm. And I read it like about six months ago

and was beyond blown away. And he writes about these macro cycles that lead to enormous transition in U.S. history. Because again, we're such a young country, right? 250 years old or barely that, right? And basically there were two cycles and I believe one cycle. So there's like a political cycle and a social cycle. And one of them occurs roughly every 50 years. One of them occurs roughly every 80 years. And he goes through each cycle. So what's

the, what creates the tension, the pressure, the break point, the rebuild. But what he writes about in this book is, look, this is the first time we're coming up to both cycles happening around the same time, like roughly 2030. And so he's saying like everything that we're going through right now, politically and socially and economically is actually pretty predictable. And here's what's interesting. He wrote the book, I believe, pre-2020. So a lot of what he said was kind of going to happen is already happening. It's super interesting. And the implications for 2024, 2028 in terms of, you know, kind of presidential stuff is interesting because obviously a lot of it has to do with different administrations and things like that. So what is he predicting is happening?

So he thinks we're coming to the end of a cycle where basically the current political and social structure has exceeded its utility. Right. where basically the current political and social structure has exceeded its utility, right? So politics, as we, I don't think anybody would disagree that politics has basically lost its service, right? Like the people aren't benefiting from their politicians anymore. So why is that? Well, so let's go back to the last cycle. So he said the last cycle was Jimmy Carter into Ronald Reagan, right? And so Carter was the last of that cycle, which was kind of super big government. And then Reagan ushered in, you know, obviously small government, but also lots of military spending. And, you know, what he says is, actually, I'm trying to

think, I don't think he actually predicts exactly what's going to happen in the next cycle. But what he says is, all of the kind of discourse that we're seeing now where basically there's nothing that's really bipartisan anymore, that's going to lead to kind of a breakdown of the system where, I'm trying to think how he describes it much more eloquently than I can. The gist of it is then he says that the next president to be elected will be kind of the last of the cycle. So whoever's elected in 2024, he thinks is kind of the last of the current system we have. And we will, I, again, it's hard for me to imagine this is true, but what he's basically saying is it will no longer be kind of the elite class running the

country because you know know that's obviously what we do right now right we have a pretty elite class that runs the country um how is that possible again i can't fathom how it's possible but how would it be possible that they would relinquish their grasp on power and control because it seems like everything they're doing is indicating that they're moving towards greater and greater control and and more and more they're doing is indicating that they're moving towards greater and greater control and more and more. They're taking advantage more and more of the situation to reap financial benefits. You know, when you look at just the fucking insider trading that they're allowed to do and no one's stopping, just that, it's just unbelievable that there's not more pushback against that.

There's jokes about Nancy Pelosi and what a great stock trader she is. But if you just look at the entire list of Republicans and Democrats that are involved in stock trading that do way better than some of the very best traders in the world, like it's really clear

that this is a fucking money grab and that it's dirty and no one's stopping it. No one's voting to stop. There's no one who's speaking out. And the problem is the people that would be involved in putting forth legislation to make this illegal or benefiting from it being legal. Like they would never do that. And their constituents aren't fired up about it. It seems to be something that people get upset. I mean, I guess that's part of the issue right i think that's part of the question is like how much longer does that continue yeah where the where the voting class sort of says like oh yeah enough's enough like we're going to put

people in who are going to kind of change things it's also you know we're in a very weird place right now with the with the media because the media has lost its hold over the narrative. It used to be that the media was the primary place that people would go to find out what's going on in the world. But now the media conveniently leaves out anything that it doesn't want to be front and center in terms of like things that people concentrate on and talk about. Like one of the greatest examples that's happening right now is this massive protest in France. Massive protest in France. Nine million people on the street.

Literally up in arms. Trevor Burrus This is about the Social Security change? Trevor Burrus Yes. Trevor Burrus Yeah. Trevor Burrus Macron in France takes his fucking $80,000 watch off under the table while he's talking to people about tightening up and about how this has to be done. The guy's wearing a fucking – find out what watch he was wearing because you're a watch head. You would like this. But the fact that this dork thought it was a good move to take his fucking watch off under the table.

And then there's the protests in Israel. Enormous protests in Israel. Millions of people on the streets. And you're not hearing a fucking peep about it. You know? All it is is like, January 6th. January 6th. Did you see what they did?

January 6th. January 6th. Did you see what they did? January 6th. Trump is coming back. But January 6th looms large. How about the fact that the guy who's the president right now can't form a fucking sentence? He makes up words and stumbles through things. No one says a goddamn thing about it. What watch was he wearing? I'm looking.

about it. What watch was you wearing? France said that this is the cost of the watch is fake news. So I'm trying to dig through. Do you buy it used? So it's not $80,000?

If you're buying it used, it's going to cost more. Sometimes, right? Depends on the watch, right? Most of the time now. Isn't that weird? People like used watches? Well, I think it's just that the watch, you know, the big four, right? Yeah. So what is that? I don't know if you can tell.

It's a beautiful watch. I mean, it's hard to tell. Very thin. It's a very thin watch. Removes luxury watch during interview. So does it say what kind of watch? Some wrongly claimed it was worth up to 80,000 pounds or $86,000. But Elise Pallas said this was not correct.

What's the fucking watch? Tell me what the watch is, you criminals. So he took the watch off. He took the watch off during his interview about the controversial pension changes. That is fucking hilarious. What a douchebag. There you go. Oh, here it is.

Oh, it's a Bell & Ross. Yeah, it's no way it's that much. That's not that much. Which is personalized with a coat of arms. Okay. Let's do that. Let's Bell & Ross BR-V192. I don't think that's like a $10,000 watch if I had to guess.

Oh, that's not right. That one says 412. Is that the same watch? It looks different. BRV192. Click on that. It's also possible they're just telling you that's what the watch is. Yeah, that's not the same watch.

Okay. That's definitely not the same watch. I think it was blue. That's it right there. Yeah. Is that it? Is that the same watch okay that's definitely not the same watch it was blue that's it right there yeah but is that it is that the same thing not necessarily yeah not necessarily just definitely not that coat of arms let me see that image again go back to that so i'm looking at that and then scroll that no no right yeah there you go maybe that might be the watch but what i'm looking at then why would you take it off i'm looking at those circles go back to that image please i'm looking at those is that maybe does it look like there's uh something at the bottom of it like there yeah wouldn't it be funny if it was a torbjorn

right it was explained torbjorns to people uh it's a device that basically allows for completely equal rotation of the gears of the watch independent of the angle of the wrist. Yeah. People don't understand that a watch like what I'm wearing, an Omega Seamaster, it's very accurate. But it's more accurate in certain positions in terms of like how the mechanical winding of the watch works. And a tourbillon, it doesn't matter where you're at. It's perfect. I saw a Grand Seiko tourbillon that was like a quarter of a million dollars. That looks like the same watch, right?

Yeah, okay. That is probably the watch. So, yeah, that is a lie, though, because that's like a $2,000 watch. That looks like the watch, doesn't it? Yeah, that's Bell & Ross. Yeah, that's it. That's a Bell & Ross. Yeah, that's it.

So it's like a $2,000 watch. It's a very nice watch, but it's not an $80,000 watch. I took mine off. It's still funny that he took it off. You took yours off? Well, you weren't looking. I took mine under the table and took it off. What do you wear, a Speedmaster?

Speedy. Yeah. That's hilarious that he did that, though. Like, why would he do that? That's a dumb move, because it's not even that expensive a watch. It's a nice watch, but... But it draws more attention when you take it off.

It shows what a cunty is. He's like, oh, I'm going to take this watch off. Then he decided he had to take the watch off. It's fucking funny. That's funny. But meanwhile, go to CNN. Are they talking about that? Go to CNN and see if CNN is showing the front page of CNN

and see if they're showing front and center of the massive protests in Paris or the massive protests that are in Israel right now. There's a shooting today, so they're talking about that. Yeah, of course they are. Yeah. Oh, that's horrible, too. There was some Christian school.

Is there anything in there about the protests in Israel? Or is it all the shooting? No, it actually said Israel protests right on top. Live updates, Israel protests. What about France? No. Israel protests. What about France? Yeah, amid violent protests, pension protests. King Charles State visit to France to postpone amid violent pension protests. I'm so much happier not paying any attention to the news.

Until it bites you in the ass. The problem is, like, you want to know when the dam's going to break. You don't want to be sitting around going, when's the dam breaking? I feel like I'll hear about it when it gets that bad. Oh, God. I think that way sometimes, too. But I can never pull myself to actually not think about it. Because of marijuana.

Because marijuana makes me paranoid. When I get paranoid, I start paying attention to the news. I'm like, oh, my God, these monsters. What are they doing? They're going to fucking ruin us all. So you prefer to smoke, right? Yeah. Or vape?

I eat it too. Okay. Yeah, I do all of it. And does one vehicle give you more paranoia than the other? They seem to all get me. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I don't think any of them make me more paranoid now.

But is there a dose response, though? Do you have to get past a certain threshold to feel it? Yeah, I don't feel it with a little bit. The problem is I like like being paranoid i really enjoy it i enjoy the fear i i really i really do i know people don't believe that i really do i like getting the fucking shit scared out of me because the end of it i always learn something i always like learning like oh i didn't even know that was bothering me or i didn't know that i was really freaking out about this or i didn't, like, I think what marijuana does

that a lot of people say makes me paranoid, what it does is makes you hyper-aware of perhaps some things that you weren't really thinking about or avoiding or things that are maybe in the back of your head that should probably be in the forefront, some issues you need to deal with, or just some realities that you need to confront about the world, about life, about mortality, about your loved ones, about, you know, just the world we live in is very temporary, and you are

very temporary. You know, I mean, a year's not that long. I mean, we're just in the elk woods in September, and September's just a few months away now. Here we are, it's basically April, you know, I mean, May, June, July, August, September,

it's there again. And then there'll be another year and then you're dead. That's really how the world works. And meanwhile, so many people,

like, it goes back to what we're talking about at the beginning of this conversation. The focus and concentration on things that are completely important, like your legacy. Or completely not important.

Unimportant, yeah. Unimportant, like your legacy. Like, it's foolish. It's nonsense. Like, no one's going to remember you, unless you're fucking Socrates. And even then, who gives a shit? Well, yeah, he's not here to remember.

No, I got this thing, I don't know, God, how many months ago? Maybe six months ago. Not that long ago. You've probably seen these. It's your life in weeks. Have you seen these calendars? No.

So it's really cool. So I go to this website and I buy, I think it's called 4K Weeks or something like that. So you go in, you fill in your date of birth and basically how old you think you're going to live to. So I put 88. So I'm going to live till I'm 88. Again, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

And then they send you this calendar with one. Yeah. So I get this box where, um, so it came for me just before my 50th birthday. So it was already filled out to like, you know, halfway into my 48 or 49th year. And every week, like every Sunday I color in a box. Jesus Christ. Every week, like every Sunday I color in a box. Jesus Christ. So, and then what I also put on it is I circled in big red the weeks that each of my kids will go to college. Which is, as you know, like that's pretty much the end of you getting to live with your kids. Yeah. Which for me is super sad.

I mean, I have a whole shift in mindset around that. I'm not quite as sad as I used to be. I have a whole shift in mindset around that. I'm not quite as sad as I used to be. But then I realize, oh, my God, like the time I'm wasting. You know, I get asked to talk a lot and I never want to go. You know, people are like, oh, will you come and give this talk in, you know, Aspen and do this and that? And I'm always like, no. Like, I don't want to be away from home. Like, I don't want to go.

Yeah. You know? And I think that's a big part of it. It's like, I, I, I have very, I have a tiny amount of time left to eat every meal with my kids and see them off to school and do all that kind of stuff. And when you look at it that way and you realize like every week you're coloring in one of those boxes. And by the way, that's best case scenario, right? Like I could die tomorrow. We have no idea. Um, and so everybody who sees it in my office is like, that's the most depressing thing I've ever seen. But I don't feel that way actually. I was kind of, it took me a couple of

years to get it because I was like, kind of like, oh, that's going to be really depressing. But I'm really glad I did. Yeah. I don't think it's depressing. It's just reality. It's depressing if you only concentrate on, oh my God, one day it's going to be over. But if you just look at the reality of the amount of time that you have available to you, the amount of time in life, it's just that's just what it is. And it'll help you prioritize and maybe it'll help you have a more balanced perspective, which is, I think, have a more balanced perspective, which is, I think, especially towards people that are high performing, ambitious people that are successful. It's very difficult to get off that horse. Like I got offered something pretty recently that I'm not interested in. And this pitch was, they were talking to me about money and they just kept talking to me about the amount of money and this and that and this. I'm like, listen, listen, listen, this is not what

I'm, that's not my motivation. You're not going to get me with this. Like I have zero interest in this product of zero interest in this thing that you're trying to promote. I'm not, I'm doing it no way. And they didn't seem to be able to understand that. I'm like, there's not enough time in this life. And I have too many things that I enjoy doing. You're asking me to do something I don't enjoy doing for something that I don't really need, which is money. Like, I don't really need money. Like, what I need is I need things that I enjoy.

That's what I like. And I have all these things that I've already cultivated in my life that I do enjoy. Like I'm having fun. I have great friends. I have great hobbies. I have great family. I have great things that I like to do. That's all I'm doing.

Like I'm not doing this other thing. And it was the most bizarre conversation. It was almost like I wanted to say, and you should probably not do it too you should probably think about your life too like you guys are kind of my age and you're talking to me about this stupid idea I don't care how much money you have like this is a stupid idea like are people gonna buy it maybe I don't know what are you gonna what the fuck are you doing I'll tell you what it is afterwards. I can't wait to hear. Afterwards, you got to go, oh yeah, what the fuck? But it's just life. You can get caught up in the momentum

of whatever thing you're pursuing. And if you're pursuing money, it's one of those slipperiest slopes because you can justify all sorts of things like, well, it's not that bad. Oh, a few people are going to – but I'm going to make a lot of money. And essentially that's how pharmaceutical drug companies push out drugs that wind up having horrible adverse events. And that's how they can justify it even though some of their studies have shown that this is probably going to be an issue. And they still push it out there. I mean, that's what they did with Vioxx. That's what they did with many, many drugs.

I mean, there's no greater example of that than the opioids, though. I mean, that was just unbelievable. Yeah, that's just the best example. It's fucking horrific, man. The fact that no one went to jail for the rest of their life for what they did, it's really horrifying. If you think about the things that people go to jail for and the fact that that family, the Sackler family, what they did and what the lies that those people who made those drugs told in terms of their addictive properties, in terms of, you know, what they're going

to do to people, It's fucking insane. How many people have died? How many people die every year? Well, so I did this analysis a while ago looking at what we call deaths of despair. So how many people die every year from the big three? So suicide, accidental poisoning. So that's accidental overdosing and alcohol related death. So, you know, drunk driving, cirrhosis, things like that. And that number is going up at about 25% a year. That's insane, by the way, just to nothing goes up at 25% per year. Like not, you know, bad things in, in health and medicine go up at like two to 3% per year. That number is going up at 25% a year. And the overdose part of that is going up at about 50% per year.

The suicide and alcohol part is not going up quite as fast. In fact, suicide of the three is going up at the least clip. So the numbers for 2020 aren't out yet, but they should be out very soon. In fact, they might be out now. I haven't looked in a month. But it will, I suspect, be a little bit over 100,000 U.S. deaths from accidental poisoning. So these are people who are, you know, they want to, so they're either taking a drug that they don't even know is laced with fentanyl, right? know is laced with fentanyl, right? So they're taking, you know, a counterfeit Ambien or a counterfeit, you know, Valium or something like that, or a counterfeit, um, opioid itself, like,

you know, um, Oxy of some sort, um, you know, or people who are just, you know, taking a drug, but take too much of it, not knowingly or something like that. I mean, that's, it's hard, it's hard to believe. It's hard to believe that by up to about the age of 55 close soon, it'll be be 60 this will be the leading cause of death jesus especially for men why especially for men do men take more drugs than women yeah men are disproportionately affected by deaths of despair really why do you think that is you know it's super interesting i don't know did Did you hear Sebastian Younger on Barry Weiss's podcast the other day? No, I didn't. Um, it was really good. I mean, I think Barry's one of the, I think Barry's just incredible. I think she's great. I sent her an email after and I was like,

how is it that in one hour you can get more interesting information out of a person than I can get in four? Her rant with that little fatso, Brian stelter do you ever see that rant she did about the world gone mad no it was was this back when he was so phosphorylated over cnn not being as popular as joe rogan yeah yeah yeah i don't know how i missed that because i heard every i mean i heard everybody's rant on that it was so good he's so gross but it was was the world gone mad. And he was like, how is the world gone mad? In what way? And she went on this fucking amazing rant. See if you can find it.

Oh, I want to see that. It's really wild. It's really excellent. While he's looking, I want to just come back to this point, though, to answer your question. So let's see. Do I play it? This may not happen. I just was waiting for him to. Yeah, go ahead.

OK, which Americans who aren't on the hard left or the hard right who feel the world has gone mad. So in what ways has the world gone mad? Well, you know, when you have the chief reporter on the beat of covid for The New York Times talking about how questioning or pursuing the question of the lab leak is racist, the world has gone mad. When you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad, when you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad, when you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad, when you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad,

when you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad, when you're not allowed to say that the world has gone mad, when you're not allowed to say, the world has gone mad. When we're not able to say that Hunter Biden's laptop is a story worth pursuing, the world has gone mad. When in the name of progress, young school children, as young as kindergarten, are being separated in public schools because of their race, and that is called

progress rather than segregation, the world has gone mad. There are dozens of examples that I could share with you and with your viewers. And you often say, you say, allowed. Everyone sort of knows this. You say we're not allowed, we're not able. Who's the people stopping the conversation? Who are they?

People that work at networks, frankly, like the one I'm speaking on right now, who try I THINK IT'S A PROVOCATIVE THING. I THINK IT'S A PROVOCATIVE THING THAT PEOPLE LET WORK AT NETWORKS, FRANKLY, LIKE THE ONE I'M SPEAKING ON RIGHT NOW WHO TRY AND CLAIM THAT IT WAS RACIST TO INVESTIGATE THE LAB LEAK THEORY. IT WAS, I MEAN, LET'S JUST TAKE

AN EXAMPLE. BUT I'M JUST SAYING WHEN YOU SAY ALLOWED, I THINK IT'S A PROVOCATIVE THING YOU SAY. YOU SAY WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS. BUT THEY'RE ALL OVER THE INTERNET. I CAN GOOGLE THEM. I CAN FIND THEM EVERYWH internet. I can Google them, I can find them everywhere. I've heard about every story you mentioned. So I'm just suggesting, of course, people are allowed to cover whatever they want to cover. But you and I both know, and it would be

delusional to claim otherwise, that touching your finger to an increasing number of subjects that have been deemed third rail by the mainstream institutions and increasingly by some of the tech companies will lead to reputational damage, perhaps you losing your job, your children sometimes being demonized as well. And so what happens is a kind of internal self-censorship. This is something that I saw over and over again when I was at the New York Times. LOL dummy. Yeah. Yeah.

She's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. No, she's amazing. So anyway. She's amazing. So Sebastian was on there and they were talking about men basically have a total absence of danger in their lives. And he talks about how – I'm sure you've read Freedom, which is a book that he wrote, kind of his last book. Yeah. I had him on right afterwards. I didn't read that all the way.

I only read the first few chapters of reading, but I really love Tribe. Yeah, Tribe, Restapo. I mean, these are amazing things. And he talks about how basically, look, we kind of spent most of our evolutionary lives with real risk. And he argues that paradoxically that made us happier.

Like being in war, even though war itself is bad, the sense of camaraderie and the dependence that you have on another person. Again, I've never been in war, so I can't speak to it. But just listening to the way others have spoken about it, it's like if you and I are in war together, I trust you with my life and vice versa. it. It's like, if you and I are in war together, I trust you with my life and vice versa. And he argues that that is so absent today that, A, you're seeing a lot more thrill-seeking behavior that is just basically engineered risk. And there's just a lower sense of purpose. And I think he argues that women are less susceptible to this in large part because, at least historically, one of the most dangerous things a woman can do is give birth to a child. I mean, the historical mortality of childbirth is enormous. And therefore, they're probably, again, these are broad generalizations, but certainly the statistics don't lie, which is that men are disproportionately subjected to these types of deaths.

It's interesting what causes people to experience despair because Jordan Peterson sent me a statistic yesterday. Here, I'll send it to you, Jamie. It's really kind of disturbing. It's essentially saying that women that hit the age of 30, that 50% of them now have no children and 50% of them will never have children and that 90% of them are going to regret it, which is really horrible. Like if you really stop and think about that, 90% of them are regretting it. I'll send this to you. The epidemic, unfortunately it's a video. I'm not going to watch it.

It's like an hour and 18 minutes. But that statistic alone, that 90% of them are going to regret not having children. You know, there's a series of biological switches that go off in a person's life. You know, becoming an adult, being on your own, becoming self-sufficient, finding an occupation, finding groups of friends and community, and having a family. There's a thing that people, they do, and they become a different thing because of that. You know, you become a different person when you become a mother or a father. You know, you do. Something happens.

You reach, like, another stage of life. It's a different chapter. And for people that never reach that stage for men, and I've talked about this many times, it's like very depressing. There's a lot of comedian friends. Which part's depressing? I was going to get into that. There's, it's very depressing when you see a lot of men that do not have children that are in their like sixties and seventies and they've never had kids and they're not married and they're just adrift. It's really sad.

Because these same guys that, like, really valued freedom when they were 30 and 40, they find themselves in this, like, purposeless existence as their body starts to fade and fail. And they realize, like, oh, my God, I've missed a whole thing in life because I didn't want to fade and fail. And they realize like, oh my God, I've missed a whole thing in life because I didn't want to take that chance because I didn't want to, you know, either contribute to overpopulation or I didn't want to lose my freedom or whatever the rationale was. And all of a sudden you find yourself in your late 60s alone, no children, no wife, and you can't have children anymore. It's over. What do you do? I mean, maybe a man can. Some old men have kids. Maybe, you know, you can do it. Maybe. But you

got to find some young lady who's still got eggs and is willing to let you fuck her. And it's increasingly less likely as you get older that they want that, you know? Yeah. I'm amazed at how that they want that, you know? Yeah. I, I, I, I'm amazed at how, when my wife and I got married, I was not, I was, I was indifferent towards having kids really. I didn't think it was like, you know, I was like, man, I mean, I guess so if that's what you want. Um, and of course I feel the same way you do, which is like, you know, most, most important thing I've ever done. Most, you know, greatest source of pleasure, uh, is actually kids, but not without pain. Right. I mean, it's really hard as you know, to raise kids. And, uh, I, I, you know, a friend of mine gave me the greatest piece of advice recently, which was, uh, something

his wife does. Now we have two boys, right? So we have this experience where they're like, and they're feral, right? Like they're full on out of control, much, much more difficult than our daughter was. And, um, at least three times a day, they do something that just makes you want to like kill them. Right. Like, and, uh, my friend was like, anytime you are get, you're getting frustrated with them, just close your eyes and imagine you are 80 years old and you have a time machine that is bringing you right back to this moment. And this is the only moment you will get with them again when they're young. Oh, wow. That's great.

It's awesome. I mean it's incredible advice. That's very good advice. Very good advice. And it totally changes everything. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'll take this all day long. You know what was one of the big shifts with me? It wasn't just – it changed who I am as a person.

It changed – there's a lot of things that changed raising kids. But one of the big things that changed was how I look at other people because I look at other people like, oh, you used to be a baby. I didn't used to do that until I was like – I guess I was like in my 30s when I figured that out. I didn't figure out that people used to be babies. I know that sounds so stupid. Like, where do you think they came from?

I would see some guy who was like 40 years old, was a douchebag. I was like, oh, he's always been that guy. Right. He was born that way. You're static. I had, I gained a much higher level of compassion and understanding and much more charitable towards people, much more, much more forgiving. Because I go, somebody fucked you over. Not just somebody, but a series of people and life itself fucked you over.

And that's why you're a shithead. You're a shithead because you met the wrong people. You had the wrong experiences. You had the wrong people. You had the wrong experiences. You had the wrong life. You had the wrong parents. All the above. It's interesting. I agree with you completely.

And I'm amazed at how people can't hold two truths simultaneously around this. So on the one hand, everything you said is correct. And yet on the other hand, there have to be consequences for being a shithead. And that everything you're saying doesn't abolish the fact that if you're a shithead, like you're going to live a different life. Yeah. And those two things are concurrently true. And that's okay. Yeah.

That's very important. And also no one's doing anything. That's the crazy thing, right? No one's doing anything to fix shitheads. It's just this wild rat race. As much as we know about psychology and human development and what can and can't be fixed, you would imagine that if you wanted to make the world a better place, one of the, I mean, really you want to make America great again, forget about economics, although that's important.

What you really would want to do is concentrate on the psychology of all of its citizens. You would want to concentrate on prospects, like your prospects for a future healthy, happy life and what's the impediment of those prospects and how do we mitigate all these issues like inner city crime, violence, gangs. city crime, violence, gangs, like all that should be of primary concern to anyone who's like, if you're running this country and you're saying, you know, we want to make the greatest country the world has ever known, we think we have the greatest country, we can make it even better and here's how. The number one, number one would be we've got to fix the ghettos. Number one, number one, number one, we've got to got the economic disparity, the disparity in terms of the prospects that people have for living a normal, healthy life without violence and crime. The difference between someone who's born in Baltimore and someone who's born in Beverly Hills are so off the charts different. And no one's doing jack shit to try to even that out.

And no one's doing jack shit to try to even that out. Like this idea about like financial equality, like that's not, you're not going to achieve that because you're not going to achieve effort equality. People, there's certain people are just going to always work harder than other people. This idea of like, we need to redistribute. I was watching this maddening conversation with this fucking dork was trying to say that all money over three million dollars that a person makes should be taxed at 90 like that's great for you to say because you're never going to make three million dollars you fucking idiot but that's so stupid the idea

behind is so stupid the understanding where that money goes is so stupid the understanding of incentives well what about fucking venture capital money What about all the fucking money that you need to make an iPhone? Do you think anything's going to happen if you tax everybody over $3 million, 90%? No. And where's the money going, by the way? It's just going to some fucking magical fairy who's going to evenly distribute it to everybody else. And we're all going to live a great life. The fuck out of here. You're just going to empower the government to steal money. That's what you're going to do. It's so dumb. But on the other hand, like there, there has to be something, there has to be something better than what we're doing now. Yeah. I, I, I think about this a lot, um, just out of personal curiosity. And I have to tell

you like this, this stacks up in the column of things for which I don't have any intelligent thought. I, you know, for all I think about this and read about this, I mean, theoretically, I have ideas, right? But in terms of what you're asking, which is actually the implementation, what would you actually do, right? What do you have to do in East Baltimore to make it different? And how much of it is policy and how much of it is not policy? Because let's look at some really obvious examples. Having two parents in the household, game changer in terms of difference. Game changer. Game changer. So if you have a father or you don't have a father in the home,

totally different. There's no policy that fixes that, right? There's no policy that fixes that, but there are certain things you can take that you can do that can mitigate that. Sure. Incarceration changes, all sorts, you know. Community, like having community centers, having outreach programs, having counselors and people that are available to young boys and girls who don't have a father or don't have a mother or whatever it is. Yeah. So, who don't have a father or don't have a mother or whatever it is. Yeah. So I don't know. It is upsetting. There's no question. It's very upsetting. And it's also upsetting when you see how much money we have to send to Ukraine and like, okay, whether or not you agree with that or not, like where was all that money

to deal with all these inner city problems? Like where's all that money to deal with all these inner city problems? Like, where's all that money to fix the south side of Chicago or to fix Detroit? Nothing. Zero effort in that regard, which is very strange. But the answer is not like taxing people 90%. You're just empowering the government. Not only that, they suck. Like, to make the government larger and more bloated, you think somehow or another by giving them 90 percent of the money over $3 million, it's going to make them efficient. No, you're just going to get people infuriated. Well, I mean the best example of that, not to pick on our favorite former state. Have you read Schellenberger's book San Francisco? Yes. Yeah.

I mean that's the case study of how that went wrong, right? Yes. And those failures are not happening because there's not enough money. I think the core insight from his book is the lack of nuance that goes into the problem, right? It's sort of using the term homelessness to describe every person who does not live in their home. When in reality, it's like the woman who had to flee her home because her husband was beating her versus the untreated person with mental illness versus the person who's addicted to drugs. Those people are not the same. The solution to help those people is not the same.

And yet when we try to treat everyone as the same in that regard, you know, we end up with San Francisco. Yeah. Big government is not the answer. And more money to government is not the answer. It's just there's too many people that are involved in government that are, first of all, they're finding legal or illegal ways to siphon off money in one way, shape, form or another. And that's why they're motivated to get into it in the first place. They're motivated to get into it. It's like ugly version of Hollywood.

They want attention. They want power and control. And then ultimately once they're in there and they understand the system, they realize that there's an incredible incentive to go along with the program. And you make extraordinary amounts of money if you do that. And if you're one of those congresspeople that does insider trade, and you look at how much money they've able to, you look at someone like Nancy Pelosi, who's making, who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars on a six figure salary, like, how, how, how'd you do that? What are you doing? How is that legal? How is that legal when they put Martha Stewart in jail for insider trading and what she does is totally legal?

You would imagine that a sane world, in a sane world, you would not be able to know a law is being passed and then make a stock trade based on knowing that that law is being passed, that a certain industry would benefit, and that industry, the stock, is going to go up extraordinarily. You would think that, no, you have insider information. You can't do that, especially because you're a public servant. You're supposed to be a politician that's serving your constituents. Instead, you're just using this information, and you have advanced knowledge of it. You're making insane amounts of money. You're doing better than Warren Buffett and George Soros in the stock market.

Fuck you. This is crazy. But that's the reality. There needs to be something different than what we're doing now. But, you know, I don't know how to do it. I don't know what the answer is. how to do it. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like there's not a lot of effort or discussion that's being put into trying to figure out what that is or how to do that. The idea of like, you know, I know people love to talk about income inequality, but it's like such a bullshit

conversation because they always like to pretend they, they like people always like, like, for instance, they always want to do the income inequality thing with men and women you know like oh women get paid 75 cents to every dollar a man makes i had a conversation with a friend of mine about that where he didn't even know that that was about different occupations do you understand there's different occupations in different hours he was like what i was like yeah you're arguing something that you saw on fucking MSNBC. This is nonsense. If you actually look at the real statistics.

And then there's also you're never going to get income inequality because there's certain people. Income equality. Income equality, rather. always going to push further and harder in sports, in art, in finance, in anything, in anything. You're not going to get equality with human beings because you're not going to get equality of effort. You're not going to get equality of desire. People have different motivations. What you want is a level playing field. That's what you want, where people can do their best with what they have and not be hindered by some shenanigans and bullshit and manipulation. That's what you want. If you want to work towards that, like a level opportunity field and not a level opportunity to make money. Okay. But if you

want to say like, we need to incubate quality, like equality like god damn it There's people that are psychos that work 79 hours every fucking week on Adderall You're never gonna make as much money as them. You're never gonna push as hard as them You're never gonna want it as much you're never gonna pump your fists up in the air when you fucking sign a deal like they Do they're out of their mind. You don't even want to be them. You don't want to be them That's income equality is not it's not our goal. Our ultimate goal is happiness for human beings. What makes human beings happy? Well, having fucking healthcare would be nice. Having some sort of like a real healthcare system in this country that you can absolutely count on. Not being in massive student debt. Student loan debt is so goddamn crazy that you can get a you go bankrupt and you can

never absolve your student loan debt there's people that are they're getting their social security docked because they owe student loans you want to talk about getting to the end of the fucking game and you're a loser like that's gotta suck your student loan debts are taking your fucking social Security money. Oh, my God. That's got to be so depressing. The fact that that's actually true. Those two things, that's a system.

That's a fucked system. That's not good. When you get subsidized education, they jack the rates up and you can never get out of the loans. And then health care. up and you can never get out of the loans and then healthcare. Like, did you see, did you see the thing I posted a couple of weeks ago about this bill we got from when my Jill was with our middle son in San Diego visiting a friend and he was sick. So she had to take him to an ER, right? Like we don't, our doctor's not there, right? Obviously we live here. So they did like regular chemistry lab on him. That's like about a $12 blood test and gave them

like, I don't know, 250 to 500 CC of IV fluid. That was it. That was it. What do you think the bill was? $1,200. I don't remember it. Cause I'd have to look at the post I put up. I think the bill was 6,000 of which we owed 2000. That's insane. That's problematic. That's a real problem. Yeah. It might've been more than that. $6,000 bill, our insurance somehow picked up maybe 3,500. We were stuck with 2,500. Now juxtapose that with the following fact. Fewer than 50% of Americans today, if given 24 hours, can produce $2,500 in cash. Jesus Christ. So when we say healthcare is the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, it's the first, second, third, fourth, fifth. Like there's nothing else matters besides healthcare when it comes to personal bankruptcy. I mean, this does infuriate

me to no end. Like I sometimes think like, is there any other problem I would ever be interested to devoting my full attention to besides the problem I work on now? That's the only other problem that would tempt me. You know what's interesting too? If that problem was really tackled by our government and they did it in an efficient way, one of the ways they would have to do it, one of the ways they would have to address it in order to be efficient would be to encourage people to become metabolically healthy. Of course. We have zero encouragement.

Zero. In fact, there's actually the opposite. There's encouragement for people to have body positivity and to not be fat phobic and to not fat shame. And to not be fat phobic and to not fat shame. And there's zero discussion about healthy diets and vitamin supplementation and the benefits of that. If they just did – like imagine if the government was responsible for our health care and they realize, hey, guys, guys, guys, we've got a real problem here. And they realize, hey, guys, guys, guys, we've got a real problem here. We're spending too much money and we're losing money because what if the amount of money that they made was dependent upon the percentage of money that was spent on health care? Like imagine if politicians, if their salary depended on the – See, but I fear that that would still get screwed up because then they would just cut costs, right?

Like, I feel like... What if that wasn't an option, though? What if, like, there was, like, a standard of care? We have to cut costs. This is the problem, right? We're spending... We're probably up to $10,000 per capita, which is...

I mean, we're actually probably more than that. We're probably $12,000, $14,000 per capita. So we're at 2 to 5x every other developed nation and what we spend on healthcare. But why? And we get worse outcomes. Okay. So the big reason comes down to made up numbers. Look at my ER example. The blood test cost, the actual cost of ordering that blood test is $12. the blood test cost, the actual cost of ordering that blood test is $12. The bag of IV fluid is probably $38. So why do they inflate the cost so much? It's because they play a shell game with the insurance company. So they say, we negotiate different rates with different insurance companies

and we're going to build up the price enormously, but we're going to offer you a really big discount. And we're going to make you our preferred network. We're going to be your preferred network. And there's a quid pro quo here, which is the price is enormous, but you don't actually have to pay that much. We're going to discount it to you. But if somebody comes in out of network, which we were, right? We were out of network because probably our network is optimized around being in Austin and not in San Diego. You're going to get screwed. And of course, if you don't have insurance, forget about it. You're paying the fake money price. Especially if there's a real injury. Oh, yeah. A real injury, you need surgery and you're not insured. Oh, my God.

The other thing is we don't have the same laws around like drug pricing, right? So, so drug, you know, the, the United States basically subsidizes the rest of the world in drug pricing. So we, in exchange for getting first dibs on the best drugs, we pay a higher price for them. And other countries are basically not going to pay that because you also have better purchasing power. So if you look at Canada, for example, the government is buying the drugs, not the payer. So it's a totally different system. And the challenge is no system is going to be perfect. But what really bothers me about the discussion is we're missing the point that there are three variables that need to be optimized around. And everybody just talks about their favorite one, but you can't talk about one without talking about the other two, because if you pull on one lever, you got to let up on one of the other levers. So the three levers

are cost. How much does it cost to deliver this care? The second is quality. How good is the care? And the third one is access. How many people fall through the cracks? So if you look at the United States, we're very good on quality. When we deliver care, it's the best. There's a reason people come from all over the world here when they need their cancer surgery, right? We are certainly at or above the best for everything that would be done in medicine. On cost, we are absolutely the worst. There's literally no country that pays more than we do for a given service.

Wow. And on access, we're horrible for a developed nation. Horrible, right? On cost, what is the difference between, say, United States and- And Canada? Yeah. Two and a half X, I would bet. Wow. Maybe three X.

Wow. That's so crazy. And that's not like a third world country or something like that. Right. So Canada is killing us in cost. They're killing us in access because everybody's covered, but we have better quality. So that's the trade-off. Right.

I mean, I do talk about how my mom is getting largely veterinary medicine in Canada. I mean, her healthcare is horrible as far as I'm concerned. Totally unacceptable. Many friends in Canada that have complained a lot. No, no. It's totally unacceptable. So they have bad care, but it's more accessible. But at least everybody gets it and it doesn't cost you any money. And is it bad care because the physicians are not incentivized to provide better care because they don't make as much money?

No, no, no, no. So first of all, I mean, at least – I don't know if – I don't want to speak out of school because I'm so far removed from it. But when I was growing up, they had introduced salary caps. So physicians' salaries were capped. So when you hit your cap, you stopped working for the year. So high-earning surgeons like would retire – not retire, would stop working in August because they'd hit their – like let's say the salary cap was $300,000. If you earned $300,000 by August, you weren't going to get paid anymore.

So they would just sit down and sit out the rest of the year. Yep, and come back in January. It would create this real problem where there was a bottleneck. Shortage of docs. Yeah. But the bigger issue is just that the government is in charge of what gets done and what does not get done. And there's sort of shortages, right? So if you, like things that you and I take for granted, right? If you tweaked your knee at jujitsu tonight, you go get an MRI tomorrow. That doesn't happen in Canada. In fact, in certain provinces, it's illegal to have private clinics where you can go pay out of your own pocket to get an MRI expedited. Oh, my God.

It's illegal? Illegal. I think Ontario is one of those provinces, by the way. Really? Yep. So Toronto. In Toronto, I do not believe it is legal to have private medical clinics where you can pay out of pocket. So this is where when people say, oh, we should just be like Canada. I'm like, no, we should do something Canada does. We should

have universal coverage. And then have the option. And then you have the option to bolt on. Yeah. But would that be sort of like public defenders versus a really good attorney? No, I don't think it would be. Yes, of course. No, I think one of the things you have to do is provide primary care and emergency services for free. Because that's where 90% of your care would be delivered. And is the problem that because of these made-up numbers that you discussed earlier, that these people, in this country at least, are accustomed to charging these exorbitant fees, like $6,000 for a bag of IV? Oh, yeah. I mean, I get a colonoscopy every three years. So I had my last one this time a year ago.

And because it's funny, that one should have been covered. I don't remember the details on it. Because I was over 45 at that point. So it's counted as a screening colonoscopy. But I've historically always had to pay cash for my colonoscopies because I started doing them when I was 40. And the cash cost of getting a colonoscopy at like one of the best guys in New York city who I've always gone to is $2,000. That's the fully loaded cash cost. That means that's covering the facility fee, the anesthesia, his fee, et cetera. The one I got here in Austin, where I did it through insurance, the fee was $6,000. I got the bill and my insurance picked up. Maybe this is the one I'm... Anyway, my point is my cash out of pocket was almost as bad as the cash I paid

for just a full up cash one. It had a whole bunch of made up numbers. I actually called my gastroenterologist, the guy who did it. And I was like, you got to walk me through this. Cause like, I'm struggling to understand these costs. And he couldn't really explain it. He's like, I mean, I don't know. Like I, I don't really understand it. He's like, but, but you know, like everybody has sort of a different amount. You know, it's like being at like a bazaar where it's like, oh, I have special price for you today. It's one of those things where health care is, you would think that in a healthy community, healthy like psychologically healthy community where you really respect your citizens and care about them. It's a basic human right.

If we're considering ourselves a country, if we're considering ourselves a community of people that all live together on a certain patch of dirt, being able to exist and to be able to be treated if you get injured or if you get ill, it should be a primary concern. No, I think it would be one of the most important rights that we should have. That's one.

And the other one should – like what is the negative about educating everybody? There's zero negative. It's only positive. You're only going to get more contributors to the economy. more contributors to the economy. You're only going to get more people that are excelling in life and pushing the boundaries of whatever their occupation is, whatever they're doing. You're going to get more people that have this opportunity to thrive in life.

You have a country with less losers. You have a country with more people that are successful. Investing in that seems like. But instead we do the opposite. We make it so you can never get out of your debt we charge you a fucking insane amount of money for your education that you often are not even going to use you know i mean it's there's so many things wrong with it and it just continues over and over and over again and then there's the indoctrination of

children into these fucking leftist ideas that they promote to very um you know easily manipulated and you know kind of naive young people and these people that have never existed out there in the real world at all and have only existed in academia are now teaching your kids and influencing your kids and your kids are finally free of their parents so they're gonna spread their wings and adopt these fucking looney tunes ideas from these douchebags and you know and then they have to go out in the world and go oh my god what did i learn i learned nothing and i owe ninety thousand dollars what the fuck and i can never get out of it and every year it goes up yeah it is amazing when you look at the sort of inflation of administration within the universities and how much it is driving up cost and not driving up outcomes.

Yeah. Because, again, it all comes down to the ROI, right? Like if you have to spend $100,000 to get an education, but the education is so good that you get a job that pays you $200,000 a year, well, then it was worth it, right? I mean, that's how I feel about my education. It's a great return on investment, right? Yeah. My med school probably cost me $200,000 or something ridiculous. But I was able to earn it back, right?

If you're going to law school, if you're going to business school, if you're going to these schools, it's different. But yes, it's when you're an art major in college that it's hard to justify. You're a quarter million dollars in debt for gender studies. Yeah. Congratulations. But going back to your point, I mean, I think the biggest problem with why that system of incentivizing based on health would be difficult is, you know, think about what all the variables are that you have at your disposal to be healthy. There's basically five as far as I can tell, maybe a sixth. So what you eat, your exercise habits, your sleep habits, how you manage emotional health and stress, what drugs, supplements, hormones you take, and then kind

of call it the grab bag, like sauna, avoiding air pollution, like all the other stuff that you could do that can have a positive impact on your health. And what's interesting too about the emotional health is it's very much tied to isolation. Like people that are isolated, that's a gigantic issue. People that don't have good friends and people that are sad and alone. What is the statistic on that? Isn't it something like if you're single? Yeah. If you have a higher Yeah, if you're single, yeah. You have a higher mortality if you're not in a relationship, for sure. But it's higher. It's as high as – it's more high than people that are alcoholics, and it's more high than people who smoke 15 cigarettes a day. Yeah, there's probably some breakout point.

There's something like that. There's some breakout, yeah. that we are such social creatures that your actual physical vitality depends upon your interaction with other human beings. Yeah, look, I mean, not one of us could survive in the wilderness indefinitely. And part of that, I think, is obviously the physical part of that, but I think emotionally as well. Emotionally. Yeah. Well, that's one of the reasons why we're so terrified about those people that decide to do that. Like when you get a Ted Kaczynski who's out there in a fucking shack in the middle of Montana, those people are terrifying because there's something so wrong with them that they want to be alone. Yeah. So go back to those six

things I talked about, right? Or whatever. How many of those did we learn in medicine? One. Just the drug bucket. And by the way, we didn't even learn that bucket fully because we didn't learn anything about hormones. We didn't learn anything about supplements. We basically learned the drug bucket. Yeah. And that's not an exaggeration. I mean, I literally had zero education in nutrition, zero education in exercise. So even if a doctor knows the literature, which says, okay, you know, stuff you and I have talked about many times before. If your VO2 max is this, it's three times, you know, more beneficial to your lifespan than not smoking is. All that kind of stuff. Even if they knew that fact, they don't know how to tell you to train.

Right. Like they don't know what workout to tell you to do. And yes, a good doctor should know that you're better off being a normal weight than being overweight. But if you actually ask them, what should I eat? How should I achieve this goal? Eat less, exercise more. Yeah, yeah.

I get that. But give me more specificity. Like, tell me what to do. They can't. Yeah, they can't. And again, they're in a system where, let's just say the average doctor might get 10 to 15 minutes with a patient a day. Yeah, and then they're constantly cycling new people. And they have to pay insurance, and they have to pay the lease on the building they're at.

They're probably still in debt from their medical bills. Sure. And they basically have to hit certain billing codes to get paid. And the billing codes include diagnosis, right? You only get paid when you can say, this is the problem, this is the problem, this is the problem. So I don't know. That's why I think like it's a, this is one of those problems where I think you have to sort of take individual responsibility at this point. I don't think you can wait for the system to fix itself. You certainly have to take individual responsibility, but there's so many people that don't even know what that means. You know, for you and I, people who have concentrated on health most of our lives, that's, you know, we kind of have an

understanding of the territory. There's a lot of people out, that's, you know, we kind of have an understanding of the territory. There's a lot of people out there that literally don't know where to begin. And so it's such a daunting thing. They're intimidated. They don't know how to start. They don't know, they don't understand the benefit of it. I mean, there's so many people that are intelligent people that I know. They're intelligent. They're very smart. Their body is a fucking trash bag of disaster. Like, how? How are you existing like this? You can't be really happy with this body.

It's not with the way it looks. No, I understand. What I mean is functioning. There's no way. There's no way it functions well. It's like you have sugar in your gas tank, man. Like you're fucked. This is not good. And yet they don't even think about it. They're just going through life. Yeah. But again, I think when I say personal responsibility, I don't mean to, I mean, what I mean is the system will not fix that problem.

The system will not fix that problem. The system will not fix that problem. One of the great benefits of the time that we live in today is that someone could read your book or listen to your podcast or Huberman or, you know, many of these people that have these really, really educational shows that can, you know, Huberman's fucking all this list of different topics that he covers. We went over it when he was here last week. It's like, what a resource, what a great thing to be able to have something like that. And that, that this exists today. And that I think more people who are seeking out this information have a greater understanding of what's required and what works and what doesn't. Yeah. I just, I hope, I mean, one of the things that does worry me,

I agree with you completely, but there's also so many imposters, right? Have you seen this V Shred idiot? No. Oh, dude. I have seen that More Plates More Dates has been saying He did an evisceration of him, yeah. Yeah, I don't know who this guy is. Oh my God.

It's funny, based on what Derek said, Derek said that YouTube is mostly targeting people who know nothing. That means I know nothing because this guy gets served up to me every YouTube video I ever watch. Really? I've never watched a YouTube video where he is not getting served up to me. That's interesting. Algorithms are fascinating, right? Because I don't get served up him at all. Oh yeah. I get served him up. I mean, for the last two years, I've been served him up on nine out of ten videos I watch on YouTube. And what is his deal? I mean, just a total huckster.

I've not looked into it at all. He's a really good-looking guy with a great physique who has no idea what he's talking about and is selling supplements and craziness. At least he's a good-looking guy with a good physique. I know some hucksters that look like shit yeah I'm like who's buying this fucking dork with his fucking goofy glasses on with those red blocker glasses on like there's a lot of those guys out there yeah that look like shit and they're promoting they're like health experts right so there's the challenge right it's like we do have really good signal yes but with the signal comes the noise. There's a lot of noise. And so you got to get that signal to noise ratio figured out. And I think you're right. That's like, what would be my advice to somebody who doesn't have the time to figure out,

like, is this person reputable? Is this a person who I can, who I can trust? And unfortunately, I think the best thing you can do is rely on other people you trust and say, okay, like that guy, he, he listened to Huberman. I trust that person and that person seems reasonable and he's telling me Andrew has good things to say. Okay, by proxy, I'm going to believe that. Well, that is also what's happening with mainstream media. Like there's so many hucksters and bullshit propagandists

on mainstream media that people are turning to alternative media sources that they know are reliable and people they can trust. You know, it's one of the great things about having a podcast like mine is that I can turn someone on to you, that I can turn someone on to Huberman or to any of these fascinating people or these independent people like Crystal and Sagar from Breaking Points that have independent news podcasts or Glenn Greenwald or whoever it is.

Barry stuff. Barry Wise. There's so, but that people trust me because they know I'm not full shit. They know I'm not going to lie to them. I'm not, I'm just, I'm not going to do that. So if I, I might be wrong, but if I tell you something that's because I believe it, if I'm wrong and if I find out I'm wrong, I'm going to tell you that too. But there's a benefit in that.

There's a benefit in that that didn't exist before. There was no media outlet like that before where you could find out about people who are reliable and are giving you accurate information and provide a real benefit. That's one of the cool things about this weird time where you got these v shred guys and a lot of hucksters out there yeah it's it's a bummer because you i don't know what he's charging but i think it's a lot of money for for so little value well hopefully people pay attention to derrick you know um from more plates more dates uh his his fucking show has blown the fuck up just from quality i mean literally the guy is standing in front of a wood paneled wall with an air conditioning but you know behind him it's

like the most low quality setup ever but he's so brilliant and his the quality of his information is so good and his research is so good that he's blown up because of that. And also, like, very humble, very honest. You could tell. And I've had him on a couple of times. And you really get a sense of who the guy is. Thank God there's people like that out there that expose, like, the liver king. That's another one. Oh, my God.

For the longest time, I was telling people, listen to me. There's no fucking way that guy's natural. Not possible. There's some freaks out there that are natural. There's some real athletic freaks in this world. Absolutely. 100%. That's not one of them.

That's not one of them. And for the longest time, that guy was getting away with it. But Derek exposed him, fortunately. Yeah. You know, it's one of the great things about this time is that, yeah, there are bullshit artists and there's a lot of noise, but there's also a lot of solid signal yep yeah and one of those is outlive the science and art of longevity look at that how well that was time look at that man i'm a fucking professional in some strange way i've become a professional hugh jackman wolverine yeah look at that wolverine

gave you a fucking quote. Nice. Pretty sweet. You did the audio book as well, right? I did. I'm really glad I did. Thank the baby Jesus. Yeah. You have to. People know you.

Yeah. Plus, you're a great speaker. Yeah, but I'm not a great reader. I had to get a coach for it, actually. Because it's really funny. Everyone was like, yeah, you're going to do it. And I was like, no, no, no. I'm really bad.

And they said, oh, so Rick Rubin, when he was staying with me this summer and he was recording his audio book, he had the setup. He had the booth, like he had a recording studio set up in our house. And one day he's like, just go down there and just read a chapter. And my engineer will mix it and blah, blah, blah. So I said, okay, I'll do it. So I went down there, read two chapters. His engineer mixed it up, sent it to me. I sent it to my publisher and they were like, oh, His engineer mixed it up, sent it to me. I sent it to my publisher and they were like, oh, you weren't lying. You're horrible.

You are so bad at this. So then they panicked. Oh, no. Because they're like, oh, maybe he probably shouldn't read it. Is he a voice coach? I got a reading coach. Reading coach. This woman named Stacy Snell.

And she came over to my house one day on a Sunday. And for three hours, she coached me. And the single, I mean, she said a lot of things that everything she said mattered. But one of the things she said was slow down. You're trying to read at the speed you speak. You can't do that. You can't do that in an audio book. Interesting. You have to go way slower. Most people listen to audio books. Like I listened to them at 1.8 X. I've never listened to an audio book at regular speed. I can't, they sound too slow. But she's like, that's how you actually have to read it.

And the second thing she said was, you are so sick and tired of this book because it's all you've read over and over and over again for six years, but you are going to have to be so mindful and present that you have to read every sentence like it's the first time you've read it like with that level of surprise she fixed you in three hours though amazing what

this woman did for me great the fact that someone could fix you in three hours and now she was also my director so then i spent two weeks reading it in a studio here in aust. And I just had her in my ear the whole time and she was great. That's fantastic. Well, um, listen, brother, I'm very happy that you got this done and I'm very happy it's out. And you are one of my favorite sources of information when it comes to health and wellness and longevity and the science and art of longevity. It's available now. It's everywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Apple, you name it. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you very much.

Thank you so much. And tell everybody your social media, all that stuff. Oh, yeah. Everything is PeterAtiaMD. All right. Beautiful. All right. Bye, everybody.

Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Thank you.