The Joe Rogan Experience - #1976 - James Fox

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

James Fox is a UFO investigator and documentary filmmaker. His new film, “Moment of Contact” is available to stream now. https://geni.us/MomentOfContact

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hello, James. Hello. Good to see you, my man. Thank you so much for having me on. Oh, my pleasure. The moment I saw that documentary, I was like, wow.

Let me just be honest, off the bat. I loved your first documentary, but when someone says there's a documentary about a crashed UFO and it happened in Brazil I'm always like man people tell stories you know I'm like maybe it was one of those like I didn't think too much of it when I hear stories even Roswell I always go I don't know I don't know it's so hard to know 1947 you know I think some shenanigans are going on but what what, what was it really? And how much of this is just people tell stories and those stories grow and change over the years. And, and, you know, almost like the story becomes their real memory after a while, because they've been

doing it for, you know, so many, so many years, but then this one, this one just right away, This one, just right away, the way you captured all the information and the evidence and the eyewitness accounts about what they saw and when people got a hold of the wreckage. Like when you first started making this documentary, did you have any apprehension like, oh, this one. How do I sell a documentary on a crashed UFO? Like what's the best way to put this together? Because that's part of the art of what you do, right? You were skeptical? Let me tell you how skeptical I was, okay?

So I was making my second documentary on UFOs in the late 90s. I just finished a documentary called UFOs, 50 Years of Denial. I'm starting on my second film. It was 1999. And I partner up with a couple of guys. Boris Zuboff has been a partner. I'm still working with him today. And this guy, Tim Coleman, who's a British reporter.

And we like mapping out the film concept, like, hey, we should cover this case and we should do that. And he's like, hey, mate, we got to do this amazing UFO crash in Brazil with these aliens. We're walking around the town. And I looked at the guy and I thought, I think I picked the wrong partner. This guy's fucking batshit crazy. And literally, I dismissed it on the spot. And I refused to even read one word about it. I said, there's no way in hell that that happened and the whole world doesn't know about it.

Right. So I have to remind your audience, I was making my second documentary. On UFOs. On UFOs. And I dismissed it. Like this, like how fast can you say howdy doody? It just always seems like if someone's telling you about something like that, like you would have heard about it.

Absolutely. I can't tell you, Joe, how quickly I dismissed it. And I didn't look into it until 2011. Okay, so here's what happened. I'm going to, I get invited by this guy, AJ Javard to a place called, uh, better we be in, um, in, uh, Brazil. And, uh, I'm speaking at a conference about a film I did called, I know what I saw. And, uh, this guy calls me Jeff Siganski. He was very high up on the food chain, uh, in the entertainment industry. He's been kind of like my mentor and opening doors for me over the years. And I've asked him

over a period of time, like, why are you so kind to me? He's a very wealthy guy in New York. And he goes, you know, Jackie Gleason told me one time that these things were real. Don't listen to anybody else. I know for a fact. And so when I saw you as an independent, struggling young filmmaker, I always wanted to lend a helping hand. And by the way, you're going to Brazil. You've got to look into that Varginha case. And I thought, oh, God, not this again. Right?

I swear to God. So I was like, well, I had a lot of respect for Jeff Sikanski. I mean, you can look him up. The guy's very famous. I mean, very. He's big time. And I said, oh, yeah, sure, Jeff. I'll look into that for you while i'm in brazil

and uh just to be nice right but in the back of my mind i was like i'm not wasting one second on that stupid case seriously i'm telling you honest to god truth and it was 2011 so i go to brazil with the intent with no intention of looking into it zero Zero. Okay? I wasn't even going to ask one question. And it just so happens that nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman, rest in peace, and he is there at the conference. And somehow the case gets brought up. It wasn't about that case, but it gets brought up. And he's like, oh, yeah, I was in Brazil when that went down.

And he's one of the smarter guys. Stanton Friedman? Yeah. He is not an idiot. I mean, he's one of the reasons why him and Don Schmidt and Kevin Randall are one of the reasons why we're even talking about Roswell. And he's like, oh, yeah, I was here when that happened. I met some of the witnesses. So then that kind of piqued my interest.

I was like, oh, okay. Well, God's Stanton. I can't completely dismiss coming from Stanton. Then I met a couple of people at the conference. So I thought, okay, well, I piqued my interest. I got to be honest with you. And that's how it all started. And that was like in 2011. And I was going to include a segment of it in the phenomenon. The interview with Stanton is that, did you get that? I got that in 2013 in Brazil. Because he died when? He died like a couple of years ago. He died in the airport.

You know what he told me? He's like, James, I'm retiring. I can't do this anymore. I live in Canada in this remote spot. There are no direct flights and I'm always running in the airports trying to get my connecting flight and I just, I can't do it anymore. And then he retired for like a year or so, and then he just, he had to get back at it,

and he died in the airport running for a connecting flight. Oh, he had a heart attack? He had a heart attack. Oh, no. That's exactly what he predicted. God damn it. I know, right? And I just like...

He was a fascinating guy, because he was an outspoken critic of Lazar, and I always wanted to get the two of them together. I was like, I wanted to see, because one of the things that the critics of Lazar always bring up is his education at MIT. I can explain that to you off air in the way that he explained it to me and it might make sense, but I think that it's hard to dismiss that he worked at that lab Los Alamos labs had him on their their their list of people that worked there like he was on the the whatever that thing is that they have with the all the list of employees he was in it he worked there he knew all the people that worked there

he knew how it was set up when they when they took him there he knew the security guys he knew with the machines that they used. They had some sort of a scanner that measured the length of your digits exactly. So you put your hand on this thing, and he talked about it. And everybody was like, what? That doesn't even exist. And then years later, people got photographs of this thing. George Knapp said he went through that Los Alamos laboratory, like, just right through.

Let me tell you, this is something that just came in yesterday that I can, for the first time ever, talk about in full detail. I've talked about on, I did a couple of podcasts where I gave, I don't know, in 1993, 94, I was working on my first film. I talked about it earlier. It's called UFOs. It's so 90s, but whatever. UFOs, 50 years of denial.

It's like 80 years of denial now. And I was interviewing this guy out at Area 50. He lived on the outskirts of the base in a place, near the little alien in Rachel, Nevada. And Chuck, this guy's name is Chuck Clark. And he had found all these and the relevance of what I'm telling you will come to light in a second here. He'd found all these vantage points on the mountain tops that he could spy on the base down below with high powered telescopes with, uh, with cameras. And he was taking photographs of different exotic airplanes coming out of the hangars and stuff like that. He wrote a book called like UFO Area 51 Handbook and Guide or something.

He was an amateur astronomer. And he had a couple of really cool sightings out at Area 51 that were really like he saw these, it's in my movie, he saw these lights doing things that they shouldn't be doing, right? Like traversing and then stopping and then taking off really fast. So anyway, so I'm covering his story because I was intrigued. I mean, in the early 90s, the Bob Lazar thing was everywhere. I was making a doc on UFOs, so I was kind of looking into it. I wouldn't just like categorically believe it, but I'll look into it. So I was looking into it.

And I'm going back and forth out there for many times. And then one day, I get a phone call from Chuck Clark. And I'm back at home in Northern California. And this is kind of a long way away. And he goes, James, I got something you need to see. I said, okay, well, what is it? I can't tell you, but your jaw is going to hit the floor when you see it. I was like, that good? He goes, oh, yeah, that good. I said, I'm canceling all my plans, jumped in my car, and I drove straight through to Rachel, Nevada. I get to his house.

This must have been, I'm going to guesstimate, 95, 94, 95. Get to his house, and he's got a double wide right near the little alien. And he pops in this VHS tape. And it was like two guys on the quintessential road trip just to Area 51. You know, the surrounding areas, Rachel and the extraterrestrial Lonely Highway, and they're goofing off the alien, taking videos of each other. Just the typical road trip out to Area 51, right? Blair Witch Project. Totally. And then they're goofing off next to the photographs of the alien in the crash disc, and then they're

inside the little alien, and I'm like, okay, where's this going? And all of a sudden, and I saw this with my own eyes, all of a sudden, the car's parked. And it's parked out by the black mailbox in the desert. And it's dusk. The camera is on the armrest between the two seats. And it's slightly cocked. Like it's like, it's not level. And it's filming the dashboard and the screen, the windscreen, windshield. board and the screen, the windscreen, windshield. And there's two guys in there sounding like,

you can't see them, sounding like they're trying to crawl under the seats. I mean, they're freaking out. And then one of them goes, it's over the top of us. It's over the top of us. I'm like, damn, what is this video? Like, what am I, you know? Then all of a sudden, the car lights up on the inside. But the source of light is above it. Like, if you can imagine, I've never seen anything like this. If you could put a pendulum with a light source above a vehicle, like above the car, like this, but very slow and fluid motion, like rocking back and forth, the shadows and the lights on the inside of the car are doing this really eerily.

You've never seen anything like it. I'm looking like, my God, what is going on? And they're very scared. And one kid, who's the younger of the two, is like, I'm getting out. I'm getting out of the car. I'm staying in the car. It's over the top. I'm staying in the fucking car. He goes, no, I'm getting out. And he gets out and he videotapes

a disc that was so low, you could have hit it with a rock. And I'm looking at this thing and I'm like, that's what all the witnesses have tried to describe. That's like, if you could imagine the skin on the craft glowing like phosphorus on a beach, that's what it looked like. Like the skin was alive and it had like, um, like a yellowy orange color to it, but you could clearly see it was a disc. I mean, it was not an orb. It was a disc, but the metal lit up like it was alive. I'd never seen anything like it. And it, and it just wobbled like it was unstable, like doing this. And the camera guy goes, Oh my God. And then something about the batteries and then boom, it shuts off. I looked over at Chuck Clark.

I said, this is the video everyone's been waiting for. Unbelievable. How do you know this is real? Because every... If it's not real... All my BS meters are going off right now. Dude, fair enough. I get it.

Fair enough. I saw this video with my own eyes. Of course. It's a video, though. It's a video, for sure. No question about it. And you know they make fake videos. Absolutely. It was 1995 and they could have, but why wouldn't... 1995 is harder. Yeah, but why? It's never been released to the public. Why would you create a

fake video? What year did you see it? I saw it like 95. And so it's out there somewhere. No, it's not. Chuck Clark's got a copy of it. The story continues. No, but I mean it someone has oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely I mean in fact if those two boys that shot it are out there, please come forward like boys How come no one's acquired this so so I I said to Chuck. Oh my god. This is great I can use this in my in my movie right great. He goes, oh, no. No, no, they're terrified. I said, well, look, just put me in touch with the guys. You don't have to, like, give. But wait a minute.

They're terrified, but they give it to a guy who lives in a trailer? Hey, I'm just telling you. Do you know what I'm saying now? Absolutely. Hey, I'm really terrified. I don't want this getting out, but I'm going to give it to you. I get it. Guy who lives in a trailer.

I get it. What does this guy do for a living? He was a former military guy, and he's retired. Just a retired military guy on a trailer. This guy it. What does this guy do for a living? He was a former military guy and he's retired. Just a retired military guy on a trailer. This guy's a fed. He doesn't even live there. He probably put on some fucking overalls to hang out with you. Is his name Ray Epps?

I know, Joe. Believe me, I get it, but the story gets better. Sit tight. Because I went on a couple of podcasts and I said, screw it. I don't care anymore. I saw this video. I'm going to start talking about it. Chuck Clark said, if you ask me again, after like 10 years or 12 years, I'm never talking to you again. So I was like, I of course asked him again. I said, I'll give you 30 grand for the video.

And he's not talking to me. So I went on like a concrete podcast and I went on this guy, Julian Dorian's podcast. And I went on a bunch of other podcasts and I gave the whole story. Let's let somebody else pick up the ball and run with it. I'm just telling you what I saw. Okay. I get a, I get contacted a couple of years ago by a, by a guy who goes, I saw that video too. Then another guy contacts me and he goes, he goes, I got, I'm a private investigator. I find people. I said, well, his name's Chuck Clark. Go to it. So he finds them. Right at that time, I'm going on the Impulsive podcast with Logan Paul.

And I tell Logan Paul the story. He has exactly the same response you have. And I don't blame you. I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. I'm just telling you what I saw. It was very impressive what I saw. It was very impressive, what I saw. Very impressive. If it was a fake,

my God, that was well done. I mean, you should be making movies with Spielberg. So anyway... What is this gentleman's name who has this again? Chuck Clark. Chuck, what are you doing, Chuck? Well, let me finish. So, Logan Paul, he's like, I want to go to this guy's house.

I said, I got the guy. He's got the information. Logan's like, this is all behind the scenes. So Logan Paul takes, I put him in touch with this guy, and this guy lives in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it was like Logan Paul takes a Mercedes with a bunch of guys and $100,000 in cash, a big brick. And he goes out to this guy's house in the middle of the desert. And Logan calls me in the middle of nowhere. And he's like, are you sure your contact's legit, dude?

My phone doesn't work. I'm in the middle of nowhere. I got $100,000 cash in my pocket. I can't find this guy. I said, no, I'm sure he's good, you know. And so Logan goes in there and meets Chuck Clark. And Chuck Clark's like, yeah yeah i got the tape right here and so he says i'll give you 100 grand for it and the guy says no way and so logan paul is the gonna reveal this for the first time logan paul has got a button camera on his on his

dress on his clothes so logan paul's, all right, well, this guy doesn't want to, you know, he's going to die with it. So let's get, you know, let's get this thing on camera. So Logan's like, well, let me see it at least. So Logan like looks at it with this thing and, oh, could you show it to me again? Gets another angle, gets another angle. And, uh, and then he leaves. So Logan's like, I don't know if I want to go public. I mean, I don't really own the video. I don't know. It seems like a bit of a gray zone.

So I said, look, you know, this is a story that might be of interest to Bob Lazar because maybe Bob Lazar should see this video, and he could make a determination. I'm just saying. Or maybe George Knapp or Jeremy Corbell might be interested. This is not my domain. I'm not a Bob Lazar big guy. I don't know enough about Bob. I met Bob Lazar in the early 90s. And he told me I came up to him at a conference and I said, hey, thank you for coming forward. And he said, I didn't have a choice. That was my own. I don't know anything about the case.

I know, you know way more than I do about the case. But I'm just saying, I'm just putting this out there. How do I know more about the case than you? You literally make documentaries on UFOs. I do, but I, I mean, you got one person's account and it's fascinating. And I believe that Lazar believes what he's saying. But I've talked to George Knapp about this and George said the same thing.

I said, maybe, I mean, just maybe. And I'm not out here attacking Lazar or nobody else. I'm just saying maybe he was used as a disinformation plant that seeds some real information and some bogus information just to kind of test the waters and the reaction of the public.

I don't know. Most certainly that's possible. Yeah, I really- Most certainly that's possible. Yeah. Most certainly that's possible. It's not my domain. Also, I would imagine if you're going to give people access to classified information like that, you'd be very careful,

and you would probably add in some stuff that's not true. Yes. So it doesn't matter whether or not, as long as they have a bunch of stuff that's absolutely provable nonsense on top of the stuff stuff that's probably real then they get discredited yes which you know i mean look there's a lot of weird stuff about the bob lazar story a lot of weird stuff about it and the the the one that sticks in my mind and i know this probably shouldn't because it's possible to do is that it's been consistent.

His story's been absolutely consistent since the late 1980s. Now, that's possible to develop a narrative. And if you're disciplined, he's obviously very intelligent. You could just craft the longest con the world has ever known and make no money from it and turn your life upside down and have the feds search your property, which they did. It doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't make a lot of sense. If they thought that he really was in possession of element 115 and that there really is a stable version of this element that we discovered in a particle collider,

or we accurately, they predicted it and then proved it to be real in a particle collider but that wasn't until like the the 2000s when was it like when they i want to say was it like 2011 when they officially discovered particle 115 or element 115 but this element he said was stable wherever these beings are from and they use it to propel their craft through a means of bypassing normal propulsion systems with some insanely sophisticated method where they can pick points in space, and they essentially just instantaneously traverse these points in space? I brought a photograph with me. Of course, I left it in the other room, but I'll bring it out at some point. And it was a guy named James Kibble. He's Australian.

And it's about April 1966. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I did a segment on a landing case that happened at Westall in 1966, which is a suburb, Westall Primary School, which is a suburb of Melbourne. Shane Ryan did a film on it. I just covered a section of it in The Phenomenon. And during my time in Australia, I'd heard about this guy, James Kibble, that shot a Polaroid of a disc a couple of kilometers away, two days prior to the landing at the school. A lot of times when you have sightings, mass sightings like that,

they're in and around the area for several days. So it's very likely that those two are connected. My point is this. According to James Kibble, and he's in the film, he said the disc was kind of coming down like this over his garden, and he had his Polaroid camera he was going to take pictures of. Were you doing the same wobbling kind of motion with your hand? Yeah, he said this guy, I'll just tell you what he told me, yeah.

He said it was kind of wobbling down like a leaf, kind of. And then he was like, holy shit. And he grabbed his Polaroid camera and he said he did it so quickly, he smashed it in his face and he split his nose open, but he snapped one shot. And he said what it did was, is it went like this. Turned sideways. The photograph that I have shows it sideways. And I'll show it to you.

I've got it. I scanned it from the original Polaroid. And then it shot off at an unbelievable rate of speed, according to him. Exactly how Lazar describes how these things work. That's exactly my point. And when I interviewed all the children, now adults, that watched this thing land at this Westall Primary School in 1966, they said the same thing. It was sitting on the ground.

They got up to, I think, around 10 feet away from it, which is pretty remarkable. When you talk to witnesses, especially that many witnesses, I mean, there were roughly 300 kids. I didn't meet all 300 of them in the playground when this happened, and including the science teacher, this guy Greenwood, which I got him on camera for the first time in history and the phenomenon.

And they said it got off the ground and then it went like this. It turned like this. Turned sideways again. And then it shot off at a high rate. It's in the movie. You can hear all the testimonies. It's the same thing.

Yes. And I got a photograph of it like this. I'll show it like this. And no sound. And no sound. A slight humming or buzzing sound. This is 1966. So, and I'm going to get to this later. We can go back to moment of contact, but I'm going to make the argument that some, and I cannot emphasize how many times we need to underline the word some UFO UFOs, UAP, originate from a non-human intelligence. And I'll start off in 45 and I'll take us up to modern day. Just a handful of cases that I have personally investigated. met the witnesses, gone to their houses, dating back to 45, 47, 52, 57, 55, 60s, 64, like all these cases, okay? So basically what I'm going to do is we all know, we know that the vast majority

of these cases can be explained in conventional terms. All this noise about Chinese balloons and weather balloons, and that's all noise. It's obfuscation and noise. Yeah, we know that all that stuff exists. But what about the core 5% or 10% of cases? And I'm going to give you some samples today that truly, after extensive and exhaustive investigation, not because of a lack of data that that defy a conventional explanation and those are the cases that i'll share with you today when we're ready but we can go back to moment of contact if you want let's go right in oh you want to go right into it all right you got me so pumped up let's do it let's do it here it is um oh you got it you got it that's the photo i got a much

better copy uh outside but see the way it turns sideways? Now, let me tell you, if you ever see a photograph of a UFO, and I've talked to NASA analysis about this, and it has a clearly defined edge, it's probably a fake. They somehow, they have something to do with it's blurred around the edges. They can't get a crisp photograph of a photograph. They think it has something to do with the propulsion. But again, that's not me saying this. That makes sense. Yeah. If there's some sort of a field around it. I has something to do with the propulsion, but again, that's not me saying this. That makes sense. Yeah. If there's some sort of a field around it.

I have a much better copy outside, but yeah, this gives you an example. You have a much better copy than this? I do. I scanned it from the original. It's in my bag. Go get the bag, bro. Should I go get it?

Go get the bag. I'll go get it right now. Sorry. Get the bag, man. Oh, it's right there. Exciting. Sorry about that. Keep that up on the screen, please, Jamie.

Can I see the full, how it's... Okay, here it is. Look at this. God, it's right there. Exciting. Sorry about that. Keep that up on the screen, please, Jamie. Can I see the full how it's... Okay, here it is. Look at this. It's oddly centered. This is... It's perfect. Sent to me. This is sent to me by the guy who shot the Polaroid, okay?

There's his handwriting. This came from Australia. Boom. Here it is. Check it out. Can you see the way it's sideways like that? Yeah. I'm going to put on my old man glasses.

I know, right? I got mine too. And we can get into my argument that I'm going to put forth as if I'm presenting a case to a jury. See, my number one problem always with these things is that I want it to be true so bad that I worry that my rational, logical mind ignores all the possibilities of it being bullshit. Don't look at any one particular case. What you have to do— I mean, I'm looking at it like this, this photo. That's pretty good. That's the same one.

That's the same photo. So you got to look at it like— Do it again. Yeah. Feel similar, bro. I mean, it's a bell. It's a school bell. Time's up, bitches.

That's what they're telling us. Time's up, humans. You can't base this stuff on anyone. It's a bell, James. He proved it. It's over. You can't base. Jake is up.

Jamie's on the case. Hey, all I could say is that you talk to the witnesses. I think if you picked it up, there's a hamburger underneath it. That's what I think. It's like a fancy restaurant hamburger. Monsieur? Here's your meal, sir. Monsieur.

It is wa-fine. Fries. You know the time where they don't put the bun together? You got to do it together yourself? The burgers are sitting there. But you can't. You look at the preponderance of eyewitness testimony from around the world, right? You don't look at any one particular case.

You look at one particular case, you think, ah, I see some cracks in that case. I get it. I get it. Probably one of them lids. One of them food lids. That's what I'm talking. That's what it is. It's 100%.

We cracked the case. It's a food lid. The burger's underneath it. Yeah. You can see the top thing. Well, Jamie, that's the propulsion system, you fool. Don't you understand UFO physics? I don't know which way it's going in the photo.

That's the way it's going, that way. I don't know which way it's going. Is it going that way or this way? You could pull up McMinnville, Oregon, 1950. Evelyn and Paul Trent, pretty good photographs of discs in broad daylight. Yeah, they're pretty good. What is it again? McMinnville, Oregon, 1950.

Evelyn and her husband, Paul Trent, snapped, I think, two or three photographs of a disc in broad daylight. You know I know Barney Hill's granddaughter? That's incredible. Yeah. She fights in the UFC? Yeah, that's right. She's a badass. I've heard about that. Angela Hill.

She was on the podcast, and she told me about that after we got off the air. I'm like, what? I should have brought her right back in. Look at that. There's a better one. Hold on. It's a hubcap. Nope. That one there, that's good. Yeah, that's pretty good.

That one over there is a hubcap. I've got that extremely high resolution, but you've got two eyewitnesses never made a dime out of the story. It's been analyzed to death. Show me that hubcap one Well that one is that's that's 19 six. No, that's a hat. That's Rex Heflin. No look at That's Rex Heflin Santa Ana, California Mmm, and there are several Polaroids from Rex Haflin. You can look up Rex Haflin. It's a pretty damn good case. All jokes aside, how many of these do you think are fake?

Well, I'm showing you the ones that have been scrutinized to death. And no one has made any serious claims of being a hoax on the cases that I'm giving you right now. So that image right there, can you bring me that again, Jamie? That image right there, it's like I feel giving you. So that image right there, could you bring me that again, Jamie? That image right there, it's like I feel like someone could fake that. But you've got to listen to the testimony of Evelyn Trent and her husband Paul, and you've got to listen to the analysis

that Condon Committee did on this. On the photograph? Yeah. What did they say about the photograph? Well, here's the thing. Everybody's like, okay, eyewitness testimony's not good enough. No, I'm not saying that no no i

know i think listen if you had a unique experience if you were out in the desert and you're driving nevada and all of a sudden your engine lights went off close the counters of the third kind style and you got out and there was a fucking disc and it hovered over you for a second and it took off at an insane rate of speed and you just left there alone with this memory yeah i i sympathize with those people because in the vast universe that we exist in it's entirely possible that something like that has the power to get here it's entirely possible also people are full of shit there's a lot of people that are full of shit no question that's that's part of my problem yeah my problem is not that I don't believe my problems I don't believe people that much and I do believe some people and there's some sincere people and that's one of my problems with Bob

Lazar, I believe Bob Lazar when I talk to that guy. I like what you say. I believe he believes what he's saying And there's something to that But I also think God if you wanted to get someone that you could easily discredit, if you had a propulsion system that was baffling you, and you had some wizard who likes to make hydrogen-powered Corvettes, and he put a rocket engine in the back of a Honda. Did you ever see that? I did. He's a psycho.

So he's a guy who understands propulsion systems. He's clearly brilliant. He listens to the guy talk. He's off-the-charts intelligent. Yeah. And he would say, let's bring that fucking psycho here let's let's have that guy go down there i mean this guy's out there in the fucking desert shooting ak-47s and shit he's a wild man right so you bring that guy and you tell him hey tell us what this is go to work and he's walking

around there and he's like what the fuck is this like that's the kind of guy you if you're at the end of your rope yeah if you know if especially if you're a brilliant person if you're a brilliant person and you happen to be a general or happen to be someone who's in charge over there and you are thinking like we got to look outside the box like we got to do something we got to bring in other perspectives and You got to bring in someone That's not going to be able to communicate with other scientists. This is part of the problem You can't share data

They can't they can't peer review with other scientists all over the world because it's top-secret shit So everything has to stay within this small group very small group of people and none of them are cracking it all of them They bring in they're fucking stunned and baffled. So you keep funneling new people in. They do experiments. Something blows up. Some people die. And you're like, okay, let's try some more.

What else you got? Oh, we got this guy at Los Alamos Lab. He puts fucking rocket engines in the back. Some Hondas, and he's a propulsions expert. He's kind of nuts, but maybe bring him in. Yeah, so I'll get back to my domain because this is the stuff that I know, and I know primarily because I went and interviewed the witnesses. I just went off on a tangent.

No, it's all good. I'm going to Bob Lazar day. Okay. I just don't know the case well enough to comment on it. I mean, more than that. The reason why I shared that video story is not because I'm sitting there telling you that's a definitive piece of evidence that the world's been waiting for, but it's very compelling. It's never been released, and I'm giving you guys a lead on that.

This guy has it. Logan Paul. So Logan Paul, just put it out on your broadcast. He might do that. Yeah, I mean, if the guy sues you, the money that you'd make from having that and releasing it would probably be way worth it. You know, and I hope if the two guys that shot it, one was 19, the other guy was close to 30. So those guys are still alive.

They lived in Los Angeles and they're definitely still alive. Yeah, they should be. So if those guys are still alive, let's put together a documentary. Well, I'd like to see the original tape because it's going to be a lot better condition than an old VHS tape. Tell these gentlemen, I'll get you on the podcast. Come on. Tell the story.

Contact me at James C. Fox. Oh, don't put your email. What are you, crazy? No, it wasn't. Delete that. That was my Twitter. Oh, okay. Yeah, just my Twitter.

I thought you were going to give your email out. No, no, no, no, no. Good Lord, sir. No, I made a mistake in doing that one time on Larry King Live. Oh, no. How many dick pics did you get? Any? I was so inundated.

I could not believe. I was like, what was I thinking? Yeah, there's probably like millions of people watching that show. Oh, my Lord. It was crazy. Anyway, the people about, when it comes to UFOs, people are very passionate.

Absolutely. So let me get back to my argument. Argument. From 1945 forward. Yeah, let's go from 1945. Am I correct in this is one of things that I've always heard is that after the bombs were dropped? Yes, that's when the UFO starts. Well, that's when the activity certainly heightened and Yeah, so is there any indication that They were directly connected other than the fact that they just show up?

Was there ever any testimony? I'll tell you how it organically came upon my attention. I was working with this guy, Lance Mungia. He was one of the editors that was working on the phenomenon with me. And we were doing this archive from a guy, this guy named David Marlowe's got this incredible archive of UFO material dating right back to the 40s

all the way to modern day. Newspaper headlines, audio recordings, statements, broadcast, unbelievable. The biggest archive you could spend the rest of your life in there. So he gave me a bunch of stuff that was archive interviews of primarily people at White Sands,

Holloman Air Force Base, different areas in Texas. And I was just putting it in. It's kind of like a little montage in the piece of just giving the illustration that these things are going on kind of all over. And my buddy goes, hey, man, let's put a map on the wall and put pins in the map for all these different locations. So I was like, oh, okay, sure, let's do that. So we put a map on the wall in the edit room when we were doing the phenomenon. And we were putting pins in and we looked at each

other after like a day or two. We were like, look at proximity to Trinity site. Wow. Even Socorro, White Sands, this place in Texas, like that's kind of unusual. We're kind of scratching our heads. Do you think there's a correlation? So anyway, we didn't really take it much further than that, but we definitely took notice. And then I met with Senator Harry Reid. Thank you, George Knapp, for helping make that happen. Former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who started the AATIP program. And during the interview, I didn't think about asking him this, but at the end, and he had like, I'll have 47 minutes with you, and then I got to go. And he's got all the security guards and big guys with earpieces looking at me. I said, well, sir, would you mind if we could do a quick walk and talk?

He goes, yeah, I'll give you 45 seconds. So I figured, well, while I'm walking with Senator Reid, I'm going to ask him what was one of the more astonishing aspects of the phenomenon that they uncovered during this Pentagon UFO program. And right away, without hesitation, he goes, the fact that there are incursions over our nuclear missile facilities, nuclear armed facilities, that is of grave concern. Just that was a shocking aspect of the phenomenon. And I thought back to that map that we'd done in the edit room. So I was like, I got to go back to the drawing board. So I spent a year. I contacted this guy named Robert Hastings, who's the guy who wrote the book on the connection between UFOs and nukes. What is the book? His name is Robert Hastings, UFOs and nukes, I think.

But in any case, I contacted him and he's like, oh, I'm not doing too well. I got this heart condition. I tell you what, you can have all my archives, all the videos that I shot. So I went through all of it and I put together just like a five or 10 minute segment in the phenomenon, that connection. And you got all these like missile control launch officers and people at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Minot Air Force Base, talking about these incredible incursions. And keep in mind, you're talking about people that we entrusted with the secure, like securement and deployment of nuclear weapons, okay? So if these guys are lying,

that's a problem. And if these guys are hallucinating when they've got nuclear weapons at their disposal? That's terrifying. And it's happening all over. I mean, there is, I don't, I've got at least 15 or 20 of these guys testifying and Robert Hastings got a bunch more. My point is there is, there does seem to be a connection. I interviewed this guy, Robert Salas. Robert Salas was a Lieutenant Robert Salas, Launch Control Officer, United States Air Force, has this incredible encounter in Malmstrom, his people do, and UFO sighted, a disk,

and then his nukes start shutting down. He said to me, I'll never forget this, and this is like 2002, this is part of Out of the Blue. He goes, well, James, very calm. You could see why he was a launch control officer. Very measured. Everything that came out of his mouth was calm and measured.

He goes, well, James, the way I see it, it's kind of like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Right? Well, that makes sense. So there's a preponderance of testimony from these guys. And they're testifying right now to Arrow, Kirkpatrick but we can get back to zero

stand for look it up it's an acronym it's it's the new UAP task force there's there was that there was a sap then it went to a tip then it went to UAP task force then it went to I know they keep changing the name it was like a week like a rebranding or something. Do you know, it's the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. Did you see the photo that I posted on Instagram of the story of the guy from Space Force? Yeah. It says we may be facing threats outside this world. What the fuck does that mean?

I just don't even want to spend any time. Space Force boss acknowledges the U.S. will begin facing threats outside of Earth. What the hell are you saying? What are you saying, man? What does that mean? Can I read a statement that... Can I ask

you one question? Absolutely. Because we're still on the subject of the nuclear bases? This is exactly, this is relevant to this. How many of them were there? How many different sightings were at these missile bases and in areas where they're testing nukes? There are a lot of cases. I think cases in just about all the installations in the United States.

I mean, Robert Hastings can, I mean, I- Every installation in the United States has cases? I can't say that definitively. But a lot of them do. A lot of them. I put 15, 20, 25. Let me give you another example. Joint base.

Rendlesham Forest, December 1980. It's a joint British-U.S. base. It's called the Rendlesham Forest incident. There was a landing, December 1980. You've got Jim Penniston, John Burroughs, and this guy, Ed Kabansag, thinking that like something crashed in the forest or something. They went out to investigate and there's an object sitting on the forest floor. It's kind of like a triangular shaped object it's dark, and it's warm to the touch, and they sat with it on the ground.

Gabansag acted as a relay between the base and where this object had sat on the ground. Jim Pennison took photographs of it. He had his logbook. He wrote down the symbols that were on the craft, which were crazy. And then the deputy base commander, Colonel Charles Halt, I interviewed him. He had, because sightings can happen over a period of a week or more, a lot of times when you get these mass sightings. And even the deputy base commander, Colonel Charles Halt became a witness. He was skeptical and then he too

became a witness. And he said that these objects, there's a recording of him while it's happening. It's out there in the ether. They were shooting beams of light down into the weapons storage area. That was December 1980. Phenomenal case, the Reynolds-Wilson Forest incident. These are like the cases. What did this object look like? It was a triangular-shaped object, not that big. I don't know, maybe six feet high, and it was black, and he said it was warm to the touch.

And it didn't make any sound, very little sound. And then it lifted off the forest floor, maneuvered up through the trees and shot off at a high rate of speed. Now, these are people that are responsible for the security of our nuclear weapons saying this. The deputy base commander, Colonel Charles Holt, saying this. Gordon Williams, the general of the entire base, I interviewed him as well. He talks about how the fact that this got out, it was a memo that was written by WBH Commander Colonel Charles Holt that leaked, and the whole story got out. But those are the cases that I'm talking about that represent that 5% or 10% core that cannot be explained away in conventional terms. Defy after exhausted research. I mean, Nick Pope talks about it at the MOD.

He investigated it because it took place in England. He said there were radiation readings at the landing site. Do these, the crafts that happened at the base, do they have photographs of these things? Well, Jim Pendison says that he took photographs and then they said the photographs didn't come out. That's what they told him. So he took photographs to get developed. Yeah. And then when they developed them, they said the photographs.

That's what they said to him, yes. Yeah. So most likely they just said... So then, and then one of the things that Colonel Charles Holt said, the deputy base commander, is that a plane came in, and there was some unknown government, U.S. agency, I know you guys are probably thinking I'm crazy now,

but don't take it from me. I'm just telling you what they told me. Okay. Okay? That they came in and kind of sanitized the whole case. But that's a very good case, and it's one of the top cases that is extremely it's been investigated in England. It's been investigated the United States. And a lot of the witnesses have come forward on the record. So it's quite possible that somewhere in some archive this photo exists or some photos exist. Okay. But here's the question. If the government keeps coming out and telling us

that we may begin to face threats from outside of this world, if they're telling us that when they're discussing these things that they behave in a way that we can't describe and no propulsion systems that we know of, if they're telling us all this, why wouldn't they release all that other stuff too? Why wouldn't they release those photographs? What's in it for them?

Well, what's in it for them to tell us about it in the first place? Well, they're not. What's in it for them to even admit? I mean, just the way they're addressing it now. People think that there was a sudden epiphany with the U.S. government that they wanted to be more transparent and they wanted the general public to know more about this phenomenon. Right.

That is not what happened. What happened is a couple of insiders in December of 2017 walked some evidence out of AATIP, found a loophole, and put it on the front page of the New York Times. Oh, so it was leakers who did that? Hell yeah, it was leakers who did that. Yes, it was Christopher Mellon. Okay. I actually got a phone call when the film was coming out,

and I got a phone call from Leslie Kane, and she goes, Christopher Mellon told you that he was the one that walked the footage out of the Pentagon? I said, yeah, it's on camera. Well, Christopher Mellon... She goes, I can't believe that. He didn't even want that in the New York Times.

I said, I don't know. He just said it, and that's what happened. It wasn't even want that in the New York Times. Like, how, you know, I said, I don't know. He just said it. And that's what happened. It wasn't like suddenly the government had this epiphany. So now they can't put the genie back in the bottle. Now you got the David Fravers, right? David Fravers' encounter is phenomenal. Yeah.

Oh, come on. Yeah. I mean, it's got photographic evidence. That tic-tac. I was investigating a landing case in Socor new mexico it was april 24th 1964 so i spent five years on this case it was the case that turned around dr jalen heinick dr jalen heinick investigated ufo reports for the united states air force as a scientific advisor for from 47 to 69 he's the one that coined all the term

close encounter of the first kind, close encounter of the second kind, the second kind, the close encounter of the third kind. Okay? Close encounter of the first kind is when you see a UFO at close range, close encounter of the second time,

you see a UFO, and somehow it interacts with the environment, whether, like, Richard Dreyfuss' face got burnt or it leaves marks on the ground or it burns trees or whatever. The propulsion affects something. Close encounter of the third kind. Now, this is coming out of Air Force Project Blue Book's own files. This is not me saying this.

Close encounter of the third kind is when beings are reported by the witnesses. So beings associated with the craft are reported. One of the best, most well-documented cases in U.S. history took place at Secor, New Mexico, April 24th, 1964 at five o'clock with a police officer that was on duty by the name of Lonnie Zamora. The best case in U.S. history, the best documented case. The first military officer to arrive on the scene got there, the bushes were still smoking. I mean, the imprints in the ground of the craft, the footprints, they got diagrams of this stuff. And I spent five years going back and forth to Succor, New Mexico. I got to know the wife, Mary. I got to know the

daughter, Diane, the son, Michael, his coworkers. I went to the National Archives with Ray Stanford. He wrote the book on it, Succor, a saucer a Pentagon Pantry. Phenomenal case. And what I learned was that the Air Force, according to his own family, Lonnie Zamora's family, told his daughter this. I have this on camera. The Air Force wanted him desperately not to talk about the beans. They discouraged him to talk about the beans. And I'll tell you why. It's one thing when you see an object, unknown object like David Fravor saw up in the sky, exhibiting a technology that seems to defy conventional propulsion. And it's another thing altogether when you've got beans on the ground. The Air Force didn't want him talking about that,

and that was one thing that his daughter and his wife told me clearly. And his wife said, Lonnie was never the same after that case. So what did Lonnie see? Lonnie saw two beans at the base of an egg-shaped craft that was landed in an arroyo in Socorro, New Mexico, in broad daylight. Lonnie looked out the window of his patrol car. craft that was landed in an arroyo in Socorro, New Mexico, in broad daylight.

Lonnie looked out the window of his patrol car. He saw something that caught his eye, and then this object landed. He was actually in hot pursuit at the time. He gave up pursuit to go investigate what was going on, and he sees this object in the arroyo in the desert on the ground. It's such a well-documented case. And he rolls down his car window, and he's looking out, and he's going,

am I looking at, like, an overturned car? What the hell am I looking at? And then he sees two little figures. He said they were childlike at the base of the craft, and one of them locked eyes with him. And his wife said he was never the same after that. But, um... How did he describe them?

He said they were small, childlike. Small. And they had white coveralls, tight coveralls. This is a close encounter with the third kind. What did they say their faces looked like? He didn't give a lot of detail. I went to Lonnie's house. I got to know his wife quite well.

Lonnie had passed a couple years prior to that. And I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you want to go in this case, because we could talk on this case for three hours, but whatever. I could tell you that I got access to, he had this black duffel bag, and it was with his wife's permission. He had kept all the original news prints from the articles that had come out, and that's where I got the details. And he also

talked about it in some recordings that i got from his family and other researchers it's in the movie the phenomenon and um that's where i got the primary description because it was richard t holder was the first military officer on the scene the fbi got involved later and and uh how long was that thing sitting out there for uh the object was sitting on the ground, not for very long, just a few minutes. Lonnie saw the beans, and he went, like, around to get a closer look. I mean, he was like, what the hell am I looking at? And he drove his car around to get a closer look, and he lost contact for a second while he drove around to get a closer look. Now he's within 50 feet of this egg thing sitting on the ground.

And he gets out of the patrol car. It starts making some weird noise and it has a blue flame that comes out. And he said it was not like a rocket flame where it would hit the ground and dust everything up, but it pierced the ground like a knife through warm butter. And then when it got about 20 feet off the ground, it went completely silent with no flame, no nothing.

You can hear a pin drop. There was a symbol on the side of the craft. It was in yellow, and it was about three feet tall, and it was like a V like this, two lines and a line on top. Let's get a photo of that symbol that he recreated. Yeah, you'll see fake symbols, because Richard T. Holder asked him to draw a different symbol.

I actually have the original symbol on a document from Dr. Hyde. Why did someone ask him to draw a fake symbol? Because he said that if anybody else claimed to see the same craft with that symbol, they would immediately be able to identify a hoaxster. Oh, so which was the real one? The real one is that one right there with the two lines

in that upside down V right there. That's the real one. That's the real one. And I've got the document in Dr. Jalen Hynek's own handwriting. Ray Stanford and I went to the National Archives and found it. It was a huge find. So they did that on purpose just in case some copycat people started coming up. He did Richard T. Holder. And I met Richard T. Holder's two kids and talked to them about it. I talked to his wife about it. And it and they said yeah he was he was told that's not the genuine that's the one right there right there that you're looking at that's the real one no question so anyway my point is he drew is that his handwritten note over there that shows it yeah that's yeah that's definitely i've actually had i actually found the original one of those there's

that's it that's the document that i found found with Ray Stanford at the National Archives in 2013. This is in Dr. Hynek's own handwriting. Enclosed suggests any resemblance to the, and he draws the symbol of Socorro. Maybe we've, yeah. I mean, it was kind of a genius move, quite honestly. So this was the case that turned J. Allen Hynek? So yeah, so what happened was Jacques Vallée, was it right? So that's what it looked like? Similar? So similar to a tic-tac?

Yeah, that's what it looked like. But when it got to about 20 feet off the ground, it went completely silent. No blue flame, nothing. The landing gear was retracted. It was just an egg. And it floated off in the distance in fact actually Lonnie I've got a I've got an interview with Lonnie where he says that one of the officers who arrived on the scene um actually saw it fly off off in the distance and it was witnessed by other people in the town that saw this thing flying didn't the the tic-tac the people who saw the tic-tac including commander favor didn't he say that there was some sort of uh thing that almost looked like land a year no there was something that protruded out in the front of it or something.

I don't know. Yeah. But apparently the video, I think it was according to Fravor, the video is the one that's been out is a lot. The resolution is a lot worse than what other people had seen at the time. I remember I think David Fravor said that to me. Yeah. So I just recently went. I'm filming a new doc and I went to Washington, D.C. for a month to get kind of caught up on what's been happening. Because a lot's been happening.

While I'm doing Moment of Contact, there's an unprecedented effort in Washington, D.C. to push for further government transparency. the government transparency. Marco Rubio, Senator Gillibrand, Andre Carson, Representative Andre Carson, who got the congressional hearings that happened last year. Gallego, Representative Gallego and Gallagher, all been involved in others. And so I got introduced some intelligence folks on the inside, and they wanted me to read this to your audience. Okay. And this is about evidence. Okay. So, and this was in pretty much a reaction to the latest hearing that happened with Jill Labrand just a couple of days ago or last week. I will remain anonymous, but I've been monitoring the UFO and I met this guy. I know this guy, this guy's legit. The UFO UAP activity and the authority' response to them. I can assure you there's a lot more evidence behind the curtain that hasn't been released. First, our military are and have been seeing remarkable things in the sky,

in the oceans, and on the land for years. Of those reported, where does all this information get stored? Authorities would have you believe that this data is destroyed, but unique data is stored somewhere to be reviewed later. And as someone that has seen the classified holdings, I am very disappointed in the fact that Dr. Kirkpatrick showed some of the most mundane videos to the public. I do understand that there are security factors to be considered, so I'm hoping that Senator Gillibrand saw something much more interesting in her closed door hearing with Kirkpatrick. And why did only two senators show up for the hearing? Have they lost faith in Kirkpatrick already? I applaud Senator Gillibrand's

efforts to find the truth, but I am more sure than ever that Kirkpatrick is not the one. Interesting. So he's withholding some information. These people went on camera for me. It's going to be released when the time is right. But I've got, yeah. Again, it's one of those things conveniently, like Lucy pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown. Right when you get close.

It's so frustrating. I can only imagine. So frustrating. Christopher Mellon said that there's very high resolution photographs. Christopher Mellon said that there's very high resolution photographs. So he now has a, he just, he just met with me in DC and he's now told me that there is satellite data. And the only reason why he talked about it is because Ratcliffe mentioned it. So he's like, well, Ratcliffe mentioned it. So I'll mention the fact that Ratcliffe mentioned it.

It's satellite data. And I was like, well, how, how good are the photographs? I want to know so bad. You know me, like, come on, I've been looking at this for 30 years, how good are the photographs? I want to know so bad. You know me. Like, come on. I've been looking at this for 30 years. How good are the photographs? He goes, James, 4K. Just think about as good as you can imagine of craft. And to know that.

And I spoke to five other people that are part of the program or had the top secret clearances to access this. And they all confirmed. And it's like they're just on the other side of that curtain. Could somebody just get those out of here, please? Please! Do you think we're closer than ever to those things being leaked? I think that if we keep the pressure on, I think it's very important. One of the things that concerns me a little bit is that sometimes they could leak something that looks amazing, right?

And then you put your fingerprints all over it, and you send it out to the ether, and then it's a proven gets debunked. Right. So you got to be kind of careful if you don't know provenance. Right. And so- I would imagine they would do stuff like that on purpose.

Oh, and these guys are so smart. They're like five steps ahead of us. You know, so, but you know, I know what I know, not because I read it out of a book, but I actually went into the field. I mean, I travel. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I was interviewing generals and cosmonauts in Russia back in the late 90s. I went to China.

I went to Australia. I went to Africa. I went to Russia, as I was just saying, all across Europe. I really want to know. Like, I'm so curious. I like to go to location. I like to give you an example. I found out in China just a couple years ago,

there's a case that happened in 1994, the same time as Rua, called Mengjiao Gua in the Black Forest of China. And these guys, in the middle of nowhere, relayed the same telepathic message that the children received in Rua, Zimbabwe, in 1994 at Ariel School. And by the way, I did include a piece of that in the film that I did with the girls.

I don't know, it's only like 10 minutes long. Quite fascinating. That's a damn good case. That's in one of the 10% cases that I talk about. But there's a film out now, I think it's called Ariel Phenomenon. And it's all just about that case. But those are the... Should we get back to like to 45 and work my way up or do you want to talk a little bit about moment of contact we can get a contact

is the case that could settle this debate once and for all or let's tease people for a bit with moment of contact because it is an amazing documentary. I won't go into details. I won't go into any details. I'll just say this. I put my reputation on the line for this. I get it. It sounds so spectacular. It sounds so unbelievable.

But when you watch the documentary, it sounds less spectacular. Well, similarly spectacular, but more believable. So here's the point. Okay. It's either the most elaborate, complex hoax that involves half the town of Virginia There's like a hundred and thirty thousand people living there I mean I go down to the town square and to start talking to people I did it the movie and Everybody's got a little piece of the puzzle most people have a piece of the puzzle. It's phenomenal or a

UFO crashed Live aliens were recovered, and the Americans, it was captured by the Brazilian authorities, and the Americans stepped in and flew some of that back to the United States. And that's when the case goes cold. That's definitely the sexiest version. Well, yeah, there's no in-between. Speaking of sexiest versions, I was looking up the thing in 94 in China and stumbled across this.

Oh, good. Yeah, that's what I was saying. The thing in 94 in China and stumbled across this. Oh, good. Yeah, that's what I was saying. The most bizarre contact in China occurred in June 7, 1994 when, how do you say his name? Meng Jiao Gua. Meng Jiao Gua of Phoenix Mountain, how do you say that? Fujian. Fujian. Fujian province met a female alien.

First, there was electricity between them. Then things got amorous. According to Meng, the female alien looked like a female alien. First, there was electricity between them. Then things got amorous. According to Meng, the female alien looked like a white monster. She was very tall, about 2.5 meters, and wore tight clothes with only her big eyes and private parts exposed. She did something to him

that felt like an electric shock, and he passed out. When he came around, he found several scars on his body. According to Wu, she planted something mung bean several scars on his body according to woo she planted something Mung bean sized in his body into his body things were about to get even stranger meng had sexual intercourse the female alien She suddenly fell down on him. He could hardly move his penis felt hot then ached The experience was more pleasurable than anything he had ever felt that's him

Then ached. The experience was more pleasurable than anything he had ever felt. That's him? Yeah, and they gave him a lie detector test. And he passed it? I did not hear about that aspect of the encounter. I heard about it. A lot of people pass those, especially crazy people. Yeah.

I did not hear about that aspect of it. But I didn't go. But my point is. That dude was banging aliens. Yeah. Respect. Respect. It takes a lot of courage.

But I was very attracted to the avatar lady the big blue one that saves them she's hot she's hot we'll go back here I think she's hot let's go back because I'd fucking switch right over to that

I am so we'll get back to moment of contact I just want to say the last thing with moment of contact and we'll get back to a moment of contact. I want to say the last thing with a moment of contact, and we'll get back to these other cases. It's either the case we've all been waiting for, the case that could settle the debate once and for all, right? If it's true. Could you think of a more extraordinary,

let's just say hypothetically for a moment, it happened as all the witnesses stated it happened. How big of a story do you think that is? It's an immense story because it means that they're real. If it's true, then it means they're real. It means something that we don't understand was in the sky, got hit by lightning, got caught up in a furious lightning storm, and wound up crashing. And that these things survived and they up crashing. And that these things survived, and they got out, and the fact that one guy handled one of them

and got this insane infection and died very quickly afterwards, and he was a very young and healthy military man. And the fact that all these people have the same story, they all have the same depiction of the disc, the craft, they have the same depictions of seeing these beings not one witness came to us we had to track down every one of those witnesses and there's a story behind each and every one of them that i could go on for an hour for i'm sure i won't bore you

with the details but suffice to say bore me bro we got a gravity bomb over there we could be here for days oh my gosh i'll be like i know but there's nothing that goes better than marijuana and aliens when i went every time i'd get back from brazil i'd get home and people and i'm out there for a month knocking on doors talking to witnesses chasing people down trying to convince them to come forward like crazy yeah this is not like a quick venture to make this documentary 12 years that's insane and so wow and so i'd come home from a trip in brazil and i'm telling you man it was like my mind was just torqued i was so i'm in another alternate reality i'm thinking oh my god i'm coming to the realization that this happened when that man Takes you to the spot and gets overwhelmed with emotion. He was gone for 25 years

Marco Leal Thank You Marco and and co I said that guy don't have a story. We got to find we got to find Carlos de Sousa Yeah, unless that guy is a Daniel Day-Lewis quality actor We don't need Brad Pitt anymore nor Leonardo Di DiCaprio. This guy, that guy, if he's full of shit, best actor, he's one of the best actors ever because that moment when he gets to that spot and he's overwhelmed with emotion, he starts tearing up and he's freaking out. Like just imagine if 25 years ago you experienced something that literally destroyed your understanding of life itself in the universe, that there's a thing out there that can

visit us that's different than us. And it's probably been here forever. My DP, David West, been shooting for over 40 years. And he's like, I've never seen anything like that. That guy was, that's about as legit as I've ever seen. It was so believable. Crying. And I mean, not only that, but it's like the guy disappeared. He's never made a dime off this. He gave one statement 26 years ago to a guy named Claudio Covo. Claudio Covo was an engineer and he was a researcher, UFO researcher in Brazil. Thank you, mate. You rest in peace, Claudio Covo.

And there was a guy named Uberajada Rodriguez. He was a prominent lawyer. He's also investigated the case we wouldn't know about this case if it hadn't been for a handful of dogged Brazilian UFO researchers Peccacini deserves credit uh this guy named um Marco Petit um AJ Javard how these guys Virginia is I think it's about 130,000 that they think. So it's like Boulder, Colorado-sized. Yeah, and the surrounding areas. But, you know, I was going to include, like, maybe like I did with Rua in the phenomenon,

I was going to include like five or ten minutes of that case, and I worked so hard for so long with so many people, and then I just deleted the whole thing out of the film, and I was like, oh, God, Marcoco's gonna kill me when he sees this that i just didn't include any of it because i just couldn't squeeze it in and there was too much it was just too much well i'm glad you did it that way honestly because moment of contact is it's it it's really good there's a few of these documentaries that i go god i shut them off and I go, if that's real, holy shit. Imagine being those people.

Imagine being these people in this small city of 150,000 people and then something happens and a fucking UFO crashes in a field and people witness it. And everyone is just stuck there. Then the military shuts the town down. Can you see this? Yes. This is Brigadier Jose Carlos Pereira of the Brazilian Air Force. Okay?

I met with him with Marco on two occasions. The second occasion was 2000. If you could have found that camera, it might be even better. I'm so sorry. Would it be better? This is Jose. Jose. Yeah.

No? Worse. Worse? Okay. This is Jose. You can look him up. Jose Carlos Pereira, Brigadier, Brazilian Air Force.

Okay. So Marco and I met with him twice. The second time was 2013. He gave us an interview. Some of it's in the film. And he said, I'll talk about the 1986 UFOs over Brazil. I'll talk about the Colares case that happened in the 70s.

Phenomenal photographic evidence that's out there. You ask me about Virginia and this interview is terminated whoa it's like what what do you mean terminated like really so anyway we do the interview and i was like well i'm not going to ask him i guess but when the camera stopped rolling i was like please i mean marco and i were begging and pleading with this guy and i remember looked him dead square in the eyes I mean Marco and I were begging and pleading with this guy and I remember looked him dead square in the eyes I Said I I swear on my life. There are no recording devices. There are no cameras rolling, please

Tell us about Virginia. Why did you have that reaction of Virginia Marco was too we were begging him I was practically licking this guy's boots and he's getting prepared to leave and he's got a driver waiting for him outside So we're following and pleading with him all the way out there. Please just tell us, please. I swear on my life this happened. He gets in the car, doors open. He looks up and the only reason why I'm telling you this is because he died. He looks up at Marco and I and he goes, it happened. Closed the door and off he went.

Now, the reason why I share that is because that's not something that I can put any weight on for the documentary for people like you, right? But as a personal message for me, knowing that level of validation on the inside, it kept us going. It was like, okay, why on earth would he have done that? Why on earth would he say? And that kept Marco and I going, and that was a personal level of validation that- Is there any conventional explanation why the military shut everything down? Why they had military barricades set up around that area? No, they did try to say that the creature was this guy who's got like some deformities,

but I've seen the guy Modine or something like that but you talk to the witnesses but why would the why would the military shut the town down because a guy with deformities and then for the doctors in the hospital they said though there was a like a midget having a baby or something weird just something that was just so ridiculous it was like and you talk to the witnesses and they're just like oh come on i'm not gonna you know that's laughable at best. You know, I mean, these girls came within eight to 10 feet, three, three women, Katya, two sisters, Liliani and Valkyria, 14, 16 and 21. They got within eight to 10 feet in broad daylight of this creature. And one of the things that doesn't come across in the film,

when they saw this thing, they're looking like, what are we looking at here? They're walking through this field and it's up against the cinder block wall. And one of them was looking at it. Is that a, what is that? And it was crouched by the wall. It was weak and feeble. And one of them kind of like screeched. Yeah. Like, what is that?

And one of them kind of like screeched. Like, what is that? And it turned and it looked right at the girls. Locked eyes on them. Liliana grabs her younger sister who's 14, Valkyria, and hightails it out of there. Katya is 21. She's frozen in her tracks, locked eyes with this creature and is communicating with her. Please help me.

He wants help. It's weak, and it's feeble, and it's scared, and it's crouched down. Liliani realizes that Katya's back there. She gets, I don't know, 100 feet down the path. She leaves her sister. Stay here. I'm going back to get Katya. She runs back.

And I asked Katya, and I asked all the girls girls during that moment of contact, when you lock eyes, I know it's only a brief second, but during that moment of contact, what did you feel like? Put me there. That's where the title comes from moment of contact, because that was when they locked eyes on this creature. And that's when Katya said, help me. I'm scared. And it was feeble and suffering. And it's, it's a very powerful moment. And these girls have been saying the same thing. The mother. It's the first time I'd ever reported on these so-called men in dark suits that show up and intimidate witnesses. Honestly, I've been hearing about those cases for so many times,

but I've avoided them because it's got so much baggage from men in black. It's just ridiculous. I just didn't even want to be associated with it. But I'd heard it. I can go on until to be associated with it, but I'd heard it I can go on until I'm blue in the face. I go till tomorrow morning with the amount of cases with generals, too But this time when the mother said that these men showed up and tried to get the daughters to say they were lying and offered her a briefcase full $100 bills They could relocate

I don't know for some reason I said okay for the first time in 25 years I'm gonna report on these guys and I did and it's in the movie you can hear the mother talking about it And she's so emotional and the mother came back to the location where after happened the smell that stench and the footprint on the ground I mean everybody talks about that stench that it was so they said if you take like a skunk multiply that by like a hundred thousand that would give you some indication of the level of like how putrid and nasty it was paralyzing and it stayed in like it stayed in the areas like at the hospitals when they did the x-rays and everybody talks about it that stench there it's unbelievable like it fills your navel cavities

and doesn't leave for a week it was incredible. And they all said the same thing. And they couldn't get it out. They couldn't get it out. Yeah, they sanitized the hospital. The guy said that he had to close off that wing of the hospital while they were sanitizing it because it was so intense. You know, so I... How long did it last for?

I heard days and weeks is what I heard from people. And even the mother said when she went to where the creature was, she said that the stench, even there after the creature was gone, got in her nasal cavities and she tried to flush it out with water and saline or whatever, and she just couldn't get it out of her nasal cavities. Really crazy. But they all did.

I mean, everybody talked about that stench. You know? I mean, everybody talked about that stench, you know? I mean, the military officer, the guy that drove the creature around, I was sitting across from him. You can't see his face, but I did. And I'm looking at this guy in the eyes. I'm thinking I could be looking at a guy that drove a fucking alien around. You have no idea, dude. That drove a fucking alien around You have no idea dude You have no idea. How did he describe it?

When I came back from that trip people were like how was your trip to Brazil? What was it like man? They got great, you know Smoothies and coffee and I'm just like you guys have no idea i think i think an alien spaceship crashed and they recover live aliens and we made contact and the americans came in that's what i'm thinking about so i told a couple people on the last trip i came back i was just like i was so rocked i couldn't re i couldn't reintegrate back into culture it was joe i was just like fuck i think this happened it's the biggest story ever so people were asking me even my neighbor who runs like the he runs that make a wish foundation he was like james he goes bro i like you a lot i got a lot of respect for you

but you lost me on this one and i was like i don't blame you bro i really don't but listen to the witnesses just that's all i say just and and i would tell people and i realized i can't talk about it all i can say is just listen to the witnesses don't take it from me but i'm looking at that guy in the eyes joe and i've been at this for 30 years i've made almost i'm working on my seventh film right now I'm looking this guy in the eyes and I'm like this guy probably drove an alien around and it tripped me out so hard and it ruined his life he's to get this guy to go on camera just like a week earlier he was like oh I don't care all the money in the world. I'm never coming forward. The risks are too high. How did it ruin his life?

Because you're harboring the secret. You're being watched. You're being told not to ever talk about this. And you're looking over your shoulder all the time. And they call you. The military calls you periodically. They want to know where you are. And he's got this secret inside him

that he can't tell the rest of the world. And he's thinking about all the different... Everyone's out there speculating it real is it fake is it real fake and this guy drove a body around just think about that for a second think about the doctor who took the x-rays of this thing marco leal thank you marco you're you're the man marco leal found him eight years ago. And he was like, he confirmed the story. He was still working at regional hospital. He goes, I'll never come forward. Marco kept going every year back and forth. Then he retired. And four years after he retired, he agreed to meet with us. He wasn't even sure he was going to go on. And I said, look, man, we'll put you, we'll film you from the back. We'll disguise your voice. Showed his photographs of him at

the hospital. We know he's been been we've been trying to get at him Excuse me at the end of the interview He's to thank you I feel so much better I've been shouldering that burden for 26 years and I've so desperately wanted to tell somebody To share that story with the rest of the world. And you meet these people and you think, why on earth? They didn't come to us. They're not trying to sell their story. We tracked them down and begged and pleaded with them to come forward. When I found Martha, the sister of the deceased military officer, Marco Cherezi, we were knocking on doors. I remember the sound guy from

Rio de Janeiro. He was like, you're out of your mind. What are you doing? You can't just knock on random doors. I was like, man, if there's a will, there's a way. I'm going to find this lady. And we found her. And it was like this kind of sketchy area. You know, it's like when you get out of your car and you can see people drawing the curtains back and looking at you and you're standing out.

Like, dude, I stood out like a sore thumb, man. And then we walked up and I had Marco with me. Thank God. And we had camera crews and stuff. It's kind of sketchy. And Marta appears and her husband appears in this big, he's a big guy and he's got like a white beater shirt on and he looks like he wants to rip my head off. And I'm like, and she's looking at me. And he's just looking at her going,

Marta's looking, Marta's looking at her husband and her husband's looking at Marta like, give me the signal and I'll kill this guy. That's the fucking, and I was looking at Marco and I was like, James, you need to think quick on your feet right now. And I said immediately, please translate this. I'm here to give your brother justice.

I'm here to get the story out. Please talk to me. And we developed a relationship with her Please translate this. I'm here to give your brother justice. I'm here to get the story out. Please Talk to me and we developed a relationship with her slowly over that Those are the first words that we exchanged and we eventually got her to come forward we talked she'd gone forward in the past But she doesn't know who the hell I am. I want to take you back to the doctor Okay, what when you talk to the doctor? What did he describe? He said that it was a normal day, January 1996. It was a regional hospital. He said every day and all of a sudden all these military trucks and police cars showed up at the hospital. They come in armed and they got a bag.

They got a thing in a black body bag. And he was like, what the hell's going on here they're all you're gonna be taking some x-rays and he's like okay and uh and they had him inside and they had armed and i was asking him like what was it like because i when i when i interview witnesses i always want them i always ask them to project like i sometimes i'll even close my eyes because i'll use their words to recreate so i'm like living it through them you know what i mean so'll even close my eyes because I'll use their words to recreate. So I'm like living it through them. You know what I mean? So I'll close my eyes and I'll recreate the scenes in my head with their words, right?

It's harder in Portuguese because I'm having to get it translated. But I ask questions like, what was the atmosphere like? Was there any talking? No talking. Super tense atmosphere. Very tense. Armed guards on the outside, armed guards on the inside, military trucks running. Nobody comes, nobody goes.

And he said, first time in the history of my career, I took the x-rays and I couldn't even verify that they were good because they took them immediately. And then they said, this event never happened. He said, the stench in the hospital was overwhelming. And he goes through the different x-rays that he took, the abdomen, the head, the arms, the legs, the thorax, you know. And it was incredible. In fact, Uba Dejada Rodriguez, if you're listening to this, he's one of the leading researchers.

He's gone quiet. Peccacini disappeared for 20 years. So did he get to see images himself? Did he get to see the body himself? Oh, he saw that. He was right. Well, they didn't open the body bag, but he said the stench was just overwhelming. So they x-rayed it through the body bag?

They x-rayed it through the body bag. So he never got to see. He did not see the alien. And he didn't get to see the x-ray images or anything Nope, they wouldn't let him see a damn thing Nope Now there were two doctors. There was a guy named Roger Lear Roger Lear found out these are people that I really want to meet. I mean people are coming forward in droves right now

We just got two forensic pathologists for the first time ever Working together to come forward to make statements. And they're providing documentation of the autopsy reports done on the deceased military officer. That's the first time ever these guys are coming forward. It's happening right now. Let's explain what happened to people who haven't watched the documentary to the deceased military officer. Yeah. So, so right after the three girls came and came within eight to 10 feet of this creature or being or entity or ET, whatever you want to call it about an hour later, when I was about three o'clock in the afternoon, I would say probably maybe around five o'clock,

there were two military guys on patrol on the lookout for something unusual, what they were told. They didn't tell you a UFO had crashed. They were on the lookout for something highly unusual. And it was Eric Lopes at the wheel and Marco Chirisi, military police, in the passenger seat. They were about a block and a half to two blocks away from where the girls had seen the creature a couple of hours earlier. And this thing runs across the car in front of them. He had slammed his brakes on. And without a moment's hesitation, Marco Chiriz jumps out of the car and grabs the thing with his bare hands. Yeah. And he puts it in the back seat,

and they drive it to a clinic. And the doctor is like, what the hell is that? Get it out of here. I don't know what, you know, leave. So they went to a regional hospital. And then ultimately it went to Humanitas Hospital. And so we have testimony from Military X that when he drove it from Humanitas Hospital, it's in the movie, but he drove it from Humanitas Hospital to, as a military base,

where it spent the night in the truck for one night, and then it went from there to Esposix Campinas. It's like a university. It's where all the intellectual scientific heavyweights reside. And then it was there, I think, under examination, according to the witnesses that we talked to, for a day or two. And that's when the Americans flew in to campaign us. And we have the radar military control officer who came forward last year, actually two years ago, when we were there filming for the last time. His name is Marco

Feres, F-E-R-E-S. And he came forward for the first time and said, yeah. In January of 1996, this plane came in. USAF, he kept calling it, United States Air Force, came in and didn't have the authorization of the Brazilian government. He was like, this thing can't land. And some higher-ups stepped into the room. This is all, this is his testimony. I'm just relaying what he said. He said some higher-up came in the room and said, let it land.

And it came and it landed at Campinas. And then from Campinas, two helicopters, according to him, flew to Varginha, Brazil, Varginha back to Campinas. Then they loaded something on the airplane and then off to the United States. And that's where the case goes cold. So I will say this. you this. One of the most exciting aspects for me to getting invited on your show is that you've got an, uh, you've got a huge platform of a lot of people listening. I want to know, we all want to know desperately what happened when the United States took over? Where did this stuff go? Who was involved? Who flew that airplane? The flight records, all of these things. And so I'm

asking you, please, please, if you're listening to this, to come forward and talk to us. This is an ongoing investigation. If you're too afraid to talk to me, there's new whistleblower protection that Senator Gillibrand and Rubio and a handful of others just signed into law you can go and contact someone like andre representative andre carson and there's a process you can go and testify and tell everything we know without fear of prosecution or violating any ndas i beg and plead for you to do that now excuse me there are a handful of congress people and senators that I believe are sincerely trying to get down to the bottom of this stuff. I've met with some of them and I've

continued to try to meet with someone else. I'm working with a guy named Brian Bender. He's kind of consulted on the project. He worked for Politico and he's got great access as well. So the two of us are trying to, we're trying to address the evidence, the photographic evidence, the potential debris evidence, the potential body evidence. Where is it and who has the authority to release it? I've never really covered it. I know that I put my reputation on the line, Joe, and I totally understand for your audience that are listening to this right now and thinking that I've lost my marbles, and I completely respect that. I had the same reaction myself, and I'm not out here trying to sell crazy. I don't have a GoFundMe asking for money on evidence that I don't have. I'm not doing any of that. All I'm saying is this is potentially

the biggest story that we've all been waiting for the story that in my opinion could settle the debate once and for all this story happened in 1996 and the vast majority of the witnesses are still alive people are coming forward in droves right now like i said earlier on the show those two doctors coming forward, the forensic pathologist, you want science? They're giving us science. They're giving us the long-form autopsy report. Leslie Kane is having it professionally and medically translated. And she'll have it looked at by medical people that she knows.

So that's an ongoing investigation. Just the fact that Marco Leal and we got access to those people. I was doing Zoom calls all last week leading up to coming here begging them and pleading them to come forward please do you god just really what you want is actual footage of course we want footage you saw what i showed you earlier yeah come on man you think i'm like you know you know i'm going after oh no i know you're going after it but i mean that's really what we need i know it's what we need i mean i'm telling you right now so close it seems like you just barely got so close it's like a movie when you're reaching for the key i i know you can't quite reach it's just like now you see it dangling right there

you're like come on and i get criticized out there people are like ah no i have no photographic evidence i don't believe it's all garbage look you got to start somewhere okay it starts with the story how are you supposed to go looking for something if you don't even know it exists? Right? So now we know that exists. We've talked to people that have seen it. In fact, Michael Schellenberger called me up when the film first came out and he goes, Hey, this is Michael Schellenberger. I'm thinking about putting together an article for the New York post. And I could tell he was kind of rocked by the story, right? He was like, man, this is pretty wild. I was like, yeah, I know.

He goes, well, I'm thinking about putting together an article. I said, well, if I can do anything to help out, just let me know. He goes, well, I want to know about the photographic evidence. I was like, okay. I was like, well, I could put you in touch with a couple of people that have seen it. And I was actually quite surprised. The New York Post wanted more than one source. They wanted two sources that could see it and describe it.

And we made it happen. Pacaccini was shown video footage. He describes it in vivid detail. Go find the New York Post article by Michael Schellenberger, and I suggest your audience read this. Yeah, I read it. Oh, you did read it? Yeah, it's pretty cool, you know.

And we know where it is is and we know who has it Do you have a gym and it's like the frustration is I remember one of the people that we approached on we offered $100,000 and it was nothing then we offered $200,000 people claim they saw aliens after UFO crash landed in Brazil in 1996 documentary reveals and that's a trailer from a moment of contact yeah scroll on down i think a little further you'll get details of of the description that's the drawing that's the drawing that was done right after the incident i actually held the original print in my hands from claudio covo's daughter so one was one of them dead and one of them was alive? Yeah, apparently. And look, there were up to accounts of possibly five.

And this is another thing that a lot of people don't even realize when they watch the movie, and it was shocking to me, was that we rented this house in this kind of gated community, and it was owned by a doctor, and they had fellow doctor friends. And they were like, oh, what are you doing in Brazil? What are you doing in brazil what are you doing in virginia a whole camera cruise and caravans of camera gear and tripods are like what are you guys doing here we're like all right here we go well we're here to cover the virginia ufo incident and the doctor goes you know my friends saw something that you might want to talk to them about and we they kind of chuckle a little bit they're all this these guys are serious the whole family side so we actually go to their house and uh they uh they're like whoa no no no we didn't say we're gonna go on camera we just said

we'd meet with you we're not we're not going on camera i was like well what do you mean you're not going on camera of course you know i'm doing, no, no. We'll tell you what happened. I said, well, look, we can film you from the back. We want we disguise your voice. So anyway, so we do the interview. Reluctantly, these guys did not want to do it. But they described this craft that was looking for something that was late into the night. Late. Like probably 10 or 11 o'clock at night. They were ordering pizza. Any Brazilian will tell you they like to order pizza late at night. And they said, the whole family was watching this thing. And I kept saying to them,

what do you mean it was looking? How do you know it was looking for something? They said it was going like this. Really low. Looking. So I'd shot my drone over the whole area. I shot my drone over the point where the girls had the contact.

The point where Marco Schriese and Eric Lopes captured the creature, and the point where the military blockades were. And I realized, I took my drone straight up and I filmed straight down, and I show it in the film, the proximity to all those events is within a few blocks. The house that the entire family witnessed, very credible people that didn't want to come forward. That was just a few blocks away from the incident. It looks to me like that was a recovery mission, a rescue mission that was going down. I know it sounds crazy. Believe me, I know that. And I'm putting my 30-year reputation on the line. Do you know what my reputation, when I finished the phenomenon, I had a level of government access that I never thought I

could possibly have as a complete independent Joe public guy, me, right. I'm meeting with senators and just all kinds of intelligence folks. I mean, it's a dream. Like how could this possibly be? How can I have access? Well, I was throwing I was flushing that down the toilet by reporting on this case potentially. But I did it anyway because I was like, okay, I understand that I'm sounding crazy and I understand- You keep saying that, but I don't think you are. I don't think you're sounding crazy at all. You don't?

Okay. No, no. I've gotten so much flack for this. The town is obsessed with it. Well, I think people are very much married to their initial ideas. And when you have an initial idea that something like that is stupid, it's probably fake. I would have heard of it. It's probably fake.

And then you're confronted with what you've uncovered. And imagine if someone hadn't gone through the exhausting work that you've gone through, going back and forth to Brazil over a period of 12 years to make this documentary Imagine most people would think that sounds like nonsense. I would have already heard about this this you know If this is this big, but then when you go to Virginia and you see that enormous statue of a UFO That's crazy right? That's pretty wild like who funded this Why do they have this like why is it a part like, and the ET guys all over the place, he's at bus stops. He's at, he's in the downtown Plaza.

It's like, damn. And the mayor, the sitting mayor bears, excuse me. Thank you, by the way, for, for, for, for coming forward and sharing that information with us. Mayor bears, mayor bears helped us. It was really funny. we were interviewing with him and i was like is this guy gonna say what is what is he gonna say he's a city mayor right and he's like you know i gotta tell you man i know a lot of the witnesses i gotta say i think this thing happened i really do he goes if there's anything i can do to help out you let me know i was like god pull

out your rolodex i want you to help me find er Lopes. Eric Lopes is the key. He's the only living survivor of the second capture. He was a driver of Marco Chirisi, right? The family of the deceased military officer, Marta, her mother could not get statements from Eric Lopes. She said every time they'd pressure him, he'd be smoking cigarettes and drinking and getting really nervous and just wouldn't say anything. She wanted me to go after it. She was like, we want a statement from Eric Lopes so badly. He's the only living person witness. So I said to the mayor, I was like, yeah, if you really want to offer some help, help me find Eric Lopes. So he's like, no problem. So he does.

So then we meet in the town square with a good connection. It was like a former chief, chief of police or chief military guy and his son Homolo, who's a lawyer and prominent, was a prominent politician. And he goes, I'll take you out there to his house. Then you guys are on your own.

So I was like, all right. So this little voice, as we're all getting in our cars and driving off to go see this guy, this little voice in my head goes, you know, maybe I should get him to walk up the door with me. So I jumped out of my car and I flagged down the Mercedes, that black Mercedes that we followed. And I told Homeload with the translator, hey, is there any chance you'd consider just walking up the door with me? I honestly think that had I not done that, he might've just opened fire on me immediately

because who's this gringo guy walking up to his door on his property, asking questions about something he does not want to talk about. And when we got up to the door, I remember I heard talking as we walked up and it was a pretty intense moment because I'd heard about this guy for years, but nobody could find him. He wouldn't talk to anybody. Got up to the door and there was a handful of us, cameras rolling. And I hear voices. I hear talking, but I can't see anybody. I'm like, where is this guy? Who are they talking to? And then I realized he was up in the window looking down at us. He had his arms on the window. He's looking out the window and he's talking to Homolo and he's talking to the other translator. And I'm looking at this guy's face

and I saw a face. This does not translate in the film. I saw a face that I've never seen before. that I've never seen before. It was a face, Joe, that like was harboring a deep, deep, deep, like burdened with something so disturbing and profound that I just got lost looking at this guy's eyes. I was like, oh my God, I've never seen a face like this before. And he's looking out there and the whole time he's threatening to shoot everybody and I didn't know what he was saying. And the translator, everything was so chaotic. The translators weren't, weren't telling me. He said it three times. You don't

get out of here. I'm a bullets are going to start flying. Like he's military, you know, guy, like he's armed to the teeth. But I was looking at this guy's face and I'm looking at Dave, the DP, Dave West. And I'm like, I'm hoping that he's getting this guy's face, but Dave had the wrong lens. And the guy was looking at my DP and he was going like this. Dave said, he's never been more intimidated trying to film someone in his life. And he was like this. And he had one hand under here like that. And he kept doing that to the camera guy. And Dave said, he was trying to like zoom in on the face and it was going blurry and he couldn't, to the camera guy and dave said he was trying to like zoom in on the face and it was going blurry and he couldn't you know it was very intense and then homelo looks over at me terminado like i

we didn't he doesn't speak he doesn't speak english and i don't speak portuguese i know very little but that look he gave me that was like international like that look he gave me is we're getting the hell out of here right now right now and he's like i'll i'll tell you later kind of thing and then we left and um i asked him i was like was he serious like that guy look all he had to do was come outside and be like yeah you know guys and the first thing he says is the first thing he says all we say is airclopes airclopes eric's not going to talk about the et that was the first thing he says, all we say is Eric Lopes, Eric Lopes, Eric's not going to talk about the ET. That was the first thing out of his mouth. Like, why would you say that? Like, it's like the police showing up at your house and you opening the door going,

there are no drugs in here. It's like, well, I didn't ask that, but now that you mentioned it, okay, I guess you guys have drugs. And he's like, I can't talk about the E. Eric Lopes could have just come outside and said, oh, this is a huge misunderstanding. Nothing happened. I'm so sorry that, you know, my name got dragged into this story. There's nothing to it. That's all he has to do and it's over, right? He didn't do that. He just threatened to kill everybody and said, I'm not talking about the E.T.

So that's very telling about what happened. And they just named a street after Marco Chirisi three days ago. So it's an ongoing story. It's a, excuse me, it's a fascinating story. And I'm going to hang my hat on this, that if I have the right help, and we're all in this together, if there's enough compelling eyewitness testimony to make one think, this very well might have happened. Doesn't that merit further investigation? Doesn't that merit further efforts to solve this riddle once and for

all? This debate's been going on for 80 years. I'm handing this case to the world on a silver platter and saying, help me, let's get this one done. Imagine if some of that autopsy photos got out, some video. Well, I'm talking to the doctors, and I can tell you right now that the doctors all talk to each other. And there were doctors that shot video of that creature. I guarantee it. I know that for a fact. And no one controlled that video? No one stopped them from doing that? Apparently the doctors were left alone in the room for a while with this thing. And here's something that I really want to put out there. Hopefully this gets translated into Portuguese and the people of Brazil will hear this.

The doctors that were written about in Dr. Roger Lear's book, one of my biggest regrets, I was filming in Los Angeles, 2013. I was covering the Rua Zimbabwe case and I had flown in all these witnesses with the help of this guy, Randall Nickerson. I'd flown on all these witnesses to the landing case that happened in Africa as adults. And I was doing this really intense shoot down there. I had Kim Arnold, the daughter of Kenneth Arnold. Someone, Paula Harris, helped me lock that one. It was a nightmare trying to get her on camera.

And I just had so much going on. And meanwhile, I'm getting phone calls from this guy, Roger Lear, Dr. Roger Lear, locked that was a nightmare trying to get her on camera and I just had so much going on and meanwhile I'm getting phone calls from this guy Roger Lear Dr. Roger Lear and he's going I understand you're investigating Varginha you got to get me on camera you got to get me on camera and I kept saying I will I'll try and I ended up he got really upset with me and he's like well if you're not going to get me on camera I said it's not that I don't want to get you on camera Roger I'm so busy right now he goes, what he didn't tell me was I've got cancer and I'm dying. And please get me on camera because there's aspects of the story that you need

to know that I know. So anyway, he died. He gives me these tapes and then he dies. I actually, I sent the tapes back to him and then he died. And, um, and I got his book too. And I was reading his book when I'm putting the film together. And in the book, it's basically a transcription of all the tapes that I have. I could see that because I have the tapes. And he's got a professional translator and he's got this guy, Uba Dejada Rodriguez, going around the countryside with him and introducing all these witnesses.

And it's all on camera, except the meeting with, according to his book, that took place in Humanitas Hospital with two doctors. I couldn't validate this and I didn't put it in the movie, but if there's two doctors listening to this, apparently the creature was alive. The one that Marco Chirisi brought into Humanitas Hospital was alive. And according to Dr. Roger Lear's book, everything else was accurate. I can't say if this was accurate or not, but he put it in his book. So I'm assuming that it is. And Uba Dejara won't talk about it. He's a witness.

There were two doctors that claimed telepathic communication with the live entity. And that's in his book. Now, I'm not telling your audience that that's true. I'm telling your audience that it might be true. We know that that entity, that creature, that being, that ET, whatever you want to call it, went to Humanitas Hospital. We know that because we have testimony from the people that took it there. We have testimony from people on the inside that claimed it was there, but we don't have any testimony from the doctors that claimed there was a telepathic communication. Do they talk at all about what it said? It said that they were,

they felt sorry for the human species, not realizing their, their potential, who they really are. Like they're not, we don't realize as a race who we really are. That's what they said. It's in his book. So anyway. What did they mean by that? That we don't recognize, I mean, I'm not quite sure. I guess that we don't recognize the potential that we have as human beings, who we really

are. I'm not sure what they meant exactly, more than that. But if Uba Dejada Rodriguez is listening to this, please come forward and tell me who those doctors are. If the doctors are listening to this, they're still alive. What does it take? What will it take to get you to come forward? Anything. Just tell me what it takes.

And I can tell people to contact me at my Twitter. I guess that's the best way to tell them, right? At James C. Fox. Is that? Yeah. Would that be the best way to do it? Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

I'm not going to give up my email. Don't give up your email. No, I'm not going to do that. But let's- Twitter sorted it out. I want people to know about this case. And I want people to know that this is an ongoing investigation. This is not solved.

This is an ongoing investigation. It's something that we could all hopefully unite and really push to get answers, both on the U.S. side and in the Brazil side. We have a lot more answers in Brazil. We've got not a lot going on. I know that Leslie Kane is pushing. She's contacting some of her people on the inside that have indicated that it did happen but to me one of the weirdest ones was ryan graves because ryan graves is explaining to me how they upgraded their systems sort of picking that stuff up and they started instantaneously picking up these

things that were just defying physics yes that they didn't have the ability to detect before because the systems weren't as good. Just interviewed him in Washington, D.C. And you know one thing that he told me that I was fascinated by? He said that the Admiral came in, I think it was in 2015 when they'd just gotten that one object that was kind of rotating, kind of like a disc looking thing. He said that the Admiral came in and he was like, oh, God, the Admiral's here. And they had a debriefing on it and they were showing the videos and the admiral stepped in and he took a look at it for five seconds and it's much longer than five seconds he shrugged his shoulder and it's kind of like oh boy and he walked out of the room i was like well what

did that mean he goes that means in my opinion that he was very aware of this is this phenomenon is nothing new it's been going on and they've known about it but what can they do right what can you do what can you do you try chasing them they fly rings around your jets i mean they're doing what they're doing it's almost like they have their own agenda who the hell knows but they're stationary they're in the air he goes they don't have to recharge that footage is it the gimbal footage yeah turn sideways yeah i think it's called the gimbal there's the go go fast. There's the tic-tac. There's the gimbal. See if you can find that gimbal footage.

The gimbal footage is fascinating because you see it rotate. You see it do this thing that everybody describes. Taking it night. And I'd also like to put out there, if there are any pilots, any military personnel that have any photographic evidence and you'd like to come forward with it uh please do so i've got a new project and you can do it anonymously hopefully you'll do it not anonymously this is the thing but whatever it takes it's flying and there's another one too because it's slightly better maybe he changes the i think he does yeah there it goes yeah that looks like kind of like change this way and then with the With the clouds. Somewhere along...

And it looks very similar to those things that we were just looking at. Those photographs, very similar. It looks very disc-like. You saw the tip. That was another thing that Senator Reid revealed to me during the interview. He said that... Here's it rotates. The object...

I mean, that's wild. He said that the material, the evidence that's been released, this was Senator Harry Reid, former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, told me this on camera. The evidence that's been released is just the tip of the iceberg. Now, let me go through a couple of cases. Do you mind? Please. All right. And the reason why I say this is because I talked to you earlier about that some UFOs, some UAP, I can't underline that word enough, represent or originate from a non-human intelligence.

And I'm going to go through a handful of cases that I personally have looked into. These are cases that could prove one way or the other, certainly make a very compelling argument that some of these objects... So let's start with 1945, Trinity. Jacques Vallée just wrote a book with a woman named Paula Harris. Fascinating case. I met two of the witnesses. I went to the landing site,

the alleged crash site. Very compelling. There's probably military records on that if that's the case, according to the eyewitness testimony. That should be looked into. Roswell. Now, I know your audience is going to say, Roswell's been beaten to death.

But, well, how about this? Let's say that a murder took place, even though it's 80 years ago or 75 years ago. Does that make it like, oh, well, so much time has passed. Let's not worry about it. No. And the reason why Roswell is so relevant that most people don't understand is that you had the 509th Bomb Squadron, the most elite squadron, hand-select unit in the world, exclusively responsible for

the deployment of atomic weapons, announced that they recovered a flying saucer. That's a fact. that they recovered a flying saucer. That's a fact. Okay? Then they recant and say, oh, terribly sorry. It was just a common everyday weather balloon. Jesse Marcel, the first person at the debris field with Mack Brazel, and thank you, Don Schmidt and Kevin Randall for all your work.

We wouldn't talk about this if it hadn't been for them and Stanton Freeman. Mac Brazel takes Marcel and another guy, intelligence officer, out to the debris field. Mac Brazel says this stuff was, the material was clearly not of Earth origin. I know weather balloons inside and out. He described the material like tin foil that you crumple it up and it regains its thing. These eye beams that are purple with hieroglyphic writings, things of that nature. He takes it back to his son, who I met, Jesse Marcel Jr. I knew him well. Went on Larry King

with the guy a bunch of times. He described the same material that he handled personally in his hands. The press conference they had with Colonel DuBose, Roger Ramey, and Jesse Marcel, two out of three of those went on the record on camera, said the original story was true. The balloon story was a coverup. Okay. You've got the FBI memo by J. Edgar Hoover in his own handwriting. He talks about in the SW case, could be Southwest, the Army grabbed it and wouldn't let us have it for cursory examination. That's pretty compelling. You've got astronaut, Apollo 14 astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, who just so happened to grow up in Roswell.

And when he came back on the outskirts, and when he came back from his mission to the moon in the 70s, Apollo 14, sixth man to walk on the moon, he gets back and he knows all those ranchers and those ranchers tell him, yeah, that was not of earth origin. He's gone on the record saying this. And he also confirmed that his intelligence sources, he's an astronaut, he landed on the moon, told him that that Roswell was real. So based on just that alone, that's extremely compelling. And I know that Sheila Widnall, the former secretary of the Air

Force in the 90s under the Clinton administration, she went after that case because Clinton went after that case. And they weren't happy with the answers they were getting. And then the Air Force comes up with Project Mogul. Well, if you look at Project Mogul, Project Mogul is just exactly the same explanation as the first one, except it's a bunch of these balloons stringed together. Palsa wood, tin foil, absolute baloney. If the Air Force really wanted to squash it, show us that material that the firsthand eyewitness testimony that people that have gone on camera described,

show us that material that crumples up from 1947. Show us those eye beams with hieroglyphics on them. Can I stop you real quick? Sure, absolutely. The material that crumpled up, what's fascinating is, it's exactly the same as what was described in the Varginia case. Yes, that's what Carlos de Sousa described, yes. This material was light like a little bit of foil. When you crumple it and let it go, it goes right back to its form.

Took back its shape, yes. So anyway, so that's Roswell. So someone has this. Yeah. Supposedly. Yeah, supposedly. And someone probably has photos of this, supposedly. Yeah, there's a memo out that was found, actually, called the Wilson Memo.

Most researchers think it's a smoking gun. I've got it here, actually. The Jackie Gleason. Jackie Gleason's amazing. I met a guy who— Nixon things. Why? Oh, absolutely.

And Jackie Gleason told my buddy, Jeff Sikanski, don't listen to what anyone ever tells you. I had 100% confirmation these things exist. He didn't say that the President Nixon drove me out to a base in Florida, but he told him, don't listen to anybody who says they know for a fact these things exist. That was really cool. Anyway, this is the Wilson memo. We should look into it. That actually came out when Dr. Edgar Mitchell passed. That leaked out. I think a guy named James Rigney had something to do with it. Edgar Mitchell passed. That leaked out.

I think a guy named James Rigney had something to do with it. There's been analysis work on it. But this is considered a smoking gun evidence for crash materials and programs of that nature. There's a guy named Hal Puthoff that's mentioned. Eric Davies is mentioned. Admiral Wilson is mentioned. Quite fascinating. It could be.

I think there are other people out there like Richard Dolan and who's the other guy? Ross Colhart. They know a lot more about this document than I do. But in any case, let's move on. Now you got 1950. Can I stop you one more time? Absolutely. You said Clinton looked into this, but he wasn't happy with the answers he got?

How'd that go? What happened was Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller was pressuring the Clinton administration. I know this because I talked to John Podesta about it and other people. And he was basically saying that if you don't push for government transparency

on this topic to Clinton, then I'm going to expose the fact that you're not doing it in every newspaper journal across the country. Okay? So Clinton administration goes, okay, fine. What do you want me to do? Which case? Pick a case. And they said, all right,

I want you to go after Roswell. So Clinton went after Roswell. They were not happy with the answer they were getting about Roswell. That's that side of the story. I mean, Podesta basically said, yeah, we looked into it. And they eventually came back with that report, Roswell case closed. And they talked about this stupid weather balloon. It was the Project Mogul. Project Mogul is exactly the same damn weather balloon, just a bunch of them strung together. Same excuse, same thing. Anyway, we'll move on. Go to 1950. You've got a couple, I was talking about earlier, Evelyn Trent and her Paul, Paul and Evelyn Trent photograph a disc. It's very credible. McMinnville, Oregon, very good case.

52. You've got the two consecutive weekends in July of 1952 where you've got UFOs over the White House and UFOs over the Capitol. You have testimony, thank God, to a guy that was in the radar room that night that heard the transmission between the pilots that were scrambled to intercept these things, Al Chop, and a guy named Tom Tullian of Project Archives. Thank God got him on camera. Thank you, Tom. And you get to hear testimony of a guy who's listening to the pilot flying at 500 miles an hour in the pitch black over the Capitol, and he's surrounded by UFOs. And he's radioing

back to the tower going, what do I do? And they were all silent. Now, the interesting thing about this is that the Air Force was in full swing. They gave a press conference. It was the biggest press conference since the termination of, since the end of World War II. It was General John Sanford. And he basically says, there are credible people making incredible claims, and we don't think that it's us. But the Air Force in 1952 refused to let the public hear the testimony of the pilots. Like, duh. Imagine not hearing from David Fravor. How are you supposed to put together a story if you can't hear from that? You got a public project, Blue Book, and you're not going to share with us? I mean, Ruppelt wrote a book about it.

It's amazing. That case in 52 is phenomenal. That's a fantastic case. Jacques Vallée is convinced that they had orders to shoot these things down, that one of them, a piece did fall down and it was captured. We had an argument about putting it into the phenomenon, and I ultimately said, Jacques, it's hearsay. I can't do it, and I didn't. But Jacques convinced that we have a piece of that

from 52. Fast forward, 1955, Alabama, William T. Coleman, United States Air Force, World War II pilot flying a B-25 bomber. He describes along with, there was another, there were two engineers from Lockheed Martin and Boeing, I think, in the cockpit. They see an object about roughly 9,000 feet. They chase it. It ends up at treetop level. A guy told me, and I interviewed this guy personally at his home in Florida, okay? He said that the chase was so dramatic at the end, the disc was right in front of them.

They were at treetop level at maximum continuous power. I said, what did that mean? He goes, if I went any faster, the engine was going to blow up. He said, I thought I was going to hit this thing, this disc. And they're all just like, the hell, it's broad daylight. What are we looking at here? And the disc is eventually, he has to turn to avoid hitting the disc. And this is the United States Air Force Colonel William T. Coleman. He has to pull up first because he said if he dipped to the right, his wings would have hit the trees. So he pulls up, dips to the right, misses this thing close nearly, and when he gets regain sight of it, it's skimming across a recently plowed field,

and it's stirring up dust in the back of it. The plane lands. They give their testimony, all three of them. This is the height of Project Blue Book. He was later put in charge as public spokesman for Project Blue Book. William T. Coleman, look him up. You don't have to do it now. But the fascinating aspect of it was that report was never included as Project Blue Book. The better the case, the more credible the witnesses, the less likely you'll ever hear about this, okay? Fast forward 1957, Edwards Air Force Base.

I personally interviewed Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper. Gordon Cooper told me on camera that they were supervising the installation of a new runway, F-86 for F-86 fighter jets, at Edwards Air Force Base. He was not present, but his camera crew was. A disc in broad daylight came into view, and it landed on the dry lake bed. The guys turned their cameras on it, they filmed it, they walked towards it, it lifted off, and it shot off at a high rate of speed. It was 1957. He said he had the film footage developed. He told me this all on camera. He had the film footage developed, he held it up. He saw it was probably good footage. He's phoning the higher ups. Eventually a courier

jet comes in from Washington, D.C. Footage was taken, never seen or heard from ever again. Typical, right? So let's fast forward. Let's go to the 60s. I talked about that case earlier, 1964. You got the landing, Lundy Zamora, right? You got the close encounter of the third kind, one of the most well-documented cases in U.S. history. What does the Air Force do? Air Force tells Lonnie Zamora, the witness, do not talk about the beans because that is incredibly difficult to explain, right? In fact, they don't want to talk about the case at all, but particularly don't talk about the beans. 1966, you got UFOs landing in Michigan. You got then-Congressman

Gerald Ford gets involved because that's when the Air Force, Dr. Hynek explains the whole thing away as swamp gas, pisses off then-Congressman Gerald Ford. He pushes for congressional hearings. Those happen. As the hearings are ending, April, I think it's April 4th or April 5th, 1966, the hearings are ending, April, I think it's April 4th or April 5th, 1966, there's UFOs landing on the other side of the world at Westall Primary School. It's an incredible case, over 300 witnesses, including the science teacher who I got on camera. So let's go to, let's see, why don't we jump to the 70s? We've got 70s, 1973, Lieutenant Coyne encounters a UFO in a helicopter. The UFO momentarily takes control of his helicopter. He testified at the United Nations in 1978 that was put on by Lee Spiegel and Jacques Vallée and Dr. Jalen Hynek. Fascinating case. We can go to December of 1980. I talked about that case earlier.

Joint U.S. Military Base in England. Bentwaters, Rendlesham Forest, got a landing, housing nuclear weapons. You've got the deputy base commander. You've got all these men talking about this craft that's sitting on the ground. Fascinating case. We'll go forward to 1986, Anchorage, Alaska. You've got JAL Airlines with a Japanese pilot by the name of Kenju Chirachi. And fortunately, the reason why we know about this case is because FAA official John Callahan kept records of the cockpit recordings, the radar recordings, the voice recordings of the actual pilot talking about

what he's seen. It is absolutely mind-boggling that directly correspond to all the radar data which he has. He went on the record about it a number of times. And he said there was a meeting with the CIA stepped in. I'm just reporting what this guy said, okay? You guys believe me or not believe me, the data's out there. Go look at it. It's a thing I did cold.

I know what I saw. He testified at the National Press Club in 2007 with Leslie Kane and I organized as to what was going on. He kept that radar data. Fascinating case. The pilot, Kendry Taraci, said it dwarfed his airplane. It followed him around. It did maneuvers that were impossible. It made his airplane so small. And he was in a 747. And 747's got an elevator in it. That was 1986. Now let's jump to 1989, 1990. You've got Belgium and I've personally investigated this case. Belgium, the general, the Brazilian, the Belgian air force, general Wilford de Brouwer said there was objects that were the size of a football field, triangular in shape, didn't make any sound, and then a slight buzzing, shooting beams of light down to the ground.

Okay. I interviewed de Brouwer. I flew him out from Belgium to the United States to testify at the National Press Club in 2007. He said that two men from an unknown government agency in the U.S. requested the radar data, the tapes. He said, sure, I'll make copies for you, but I need an official request. They wouldn't do it. He was all, well, that's awfully puzzling. This is General Wilford DeBrow going on camera with me. I know. That's what he told me. Okay. Now, let's go to 1994. Now, we got a landing in Africa, Rua Zimbabwe, aerial school, roughly 100 witnesses. Fascinating case. Dr. John Mack investigates the case. He's actually

getting funded by also Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller. He was doing a major funding in the 90s about this stuff. One of the best cases, Rua Zimbabwe, 1996. You've got the crash in Virginia, Brazil. Now let's jump to 1997. You've got Phoenix, Arizona, March 13th, 1997. You've got a number of objects. One in particular that caught my interest was a boomerang-shaped craft that according to the witnesses, and everyone was out under the night sky to get a glimpse of Hellbob Comet at the time, so a lot of people saw it, that floated across the state of Arizona

roughly around 5 o'clock to 8.30 from north to south. I even interviewed families that were lying on their backs. I have it all documented. Lying on their backs, and they said this thing was so huge it took four minutes to pass over our house. It looked like it was going to land. Well, I also interviewed the governor, Fife Simonton. He too saw it and said that he launched his own investigation

with Luke Air Force Base, and they had sent planes to intercept this thing. He'd investigated Luke Air Force Base. He'd contacted his people at the Pentagon. They shrugged their shoulders and said, we don't know what the hell that thing was. It had the ability to move very slowly, and when it accelerated and took off, it took off in the blink of an eye. It was gone. Okay, so now let's go forward.

Let's go to, let's say 2004, you got the Nimitz case off the 200 miles off the coast of San Diego. We all know about that case, David Fravor. They've got photographic evidence, right? FLIR footage, four people that saw it. They chased this thing. It flew rings around. I mean, Fravor describes the tech, the technology that thing displayed made a joke of their F-18s. Fascinating case. 2006, we got to O'Hare, Chicago O'Hare Airport. Terminal 17, you've got half the crew at United Airlines seeing a disc hovering over the airport. It hovers there for several minutes. There's a guy, John Hillenkotter, I think his name is, John something.

He wrote an article about it, and he actually sent a FOIA request and got the tapes from the tower. You hear them talking about it while they're looking at it. It's an amazing case. When the disk, according to the United Airlines people, personnel, left the area, it punched a donut hole in the cloud. Brilliant case. They said it was weather phenomenon. Is that recording, the recording of those air traffic controller guys talking about it? Is that available?

Absolutely. It's out there. You can find it right now. Let's find it right now. Listen to it. So 2008, let's go to 2008. Okay. Jamie's going to find that. We'll get to play that as soon as he finds it. Stephenville, Texas. You've got an object that was described to be so big that you could land an airplane on it. I interviewed one of the best witnesses, a civilian witness, and I have police officers that I interviewed as well. Police officers.

So I interviewed this guy named Ricky Sorrells. I tracked him down with the help of Angela Joyner. And Ricky Sorrells is one of the best witnesses. He was a deer hunter, and he said he was going out at dusk, and he's got his rifle, and he's looking down, and he's careful not to step on the dry leaves to make the cracking sounds and scare the deer. So he's looking down, and he suddenly feels like something's up.

And he looks above him, and he sees this object right above him that's so big, he said he couldn't see the edges from any direction. So he gets his rifle and he points his rifle up and he's a metal worker too. And he said, I was looking through the scope and I was examining the metal. He said, I'd never seen anything like it. No rivets, no seams, no weld marks. And it had these recessed cones in the belly of this thing. And he said, when it took off, it took off so quick, had I blinked, it would have looked like it just disappeared in place. And it didn't do what you'd think it would do like that. It went like that. So anyway, so I'm interviewing him.

You're saying this all audio too. Oh, yes. I'm so sorry. A lot of people listen. So it didn't, it just shot straight up in the air. It didn't go like a saucer skimming across the water. It just shot straight up in the air. It shot straight up in the air. And he said it was so big that he could have easily landed an airplane on it. So anyway, so I'm interviewing this. I'm interviewing other

police officers and I'm investigating this case for a couple of years. I put a lot of it in the part I'm about to share with you right now. I didn't put in the film because I couldn't, but the guy who's going to come, he's going to come forward next year. And that's the police officer that pulls me aside. And I'm filming in downtown Plaza, Stephenville, probably in 2009. And I was standing there doing some filming with Ricky Sorrells. And it was like kind of like on our lunch break. And this guy walks up to me.

I'll never forget it. And he whips out his badge. And he's like, are you James Fox? And I was like, oh, God, what did I do? And he shows me his badge, and he's like, I'm Officer So-and-so. Can I talk to you for a minute? I was like, yeah, okay.

So I go off to a cafe. He sits with his back to the wall, and he's seeing anybody coming forward, and he says, everything Ricky Sorrell is telling you is true. I want you to know that. I said, how do you know? He said, we all watched it, the entire police force all watch this thing. And it was like a, it was like a,

a department store. I pulled out my radar gun and I shot my radar gun at this thing. It was doing 22 miles an hour. It was floating like a, like a city. It was absolutely colossal. He said, one of my mates took dash cam footage of it. And one of his biggest regrets was it ended up with the local Air Force base and they took it. He's going to come. I know. But I'm saying that the reason why I'm saying this is because those people out there that are possibly hopefully listening to this podcast, if they know where this evidence is or if they were involved in this in any way, shape or form, they want to come forward. Please come forward.

Now's the time. So that's an incredible case, Stephenville, Texas. Did you find the audio recordings? Yeah, which I've actually found a couple of them. Yeah. Which one specifically? They'll say, so-and-so took a photograph of it. Oh, sorry, of the, it's the 2006 O'Hare UFO incident.

It's phenomenal. I'm trying to remember the name of this gentleman. John something that wrote the article. It was exploded all over the headlines. You are so good at recall with all this stuff. You can really tell that you've been obsessed with this for so long. It's so fascinating to watch your mind go through these cases and remember all these details, barely even looking at notes. It's all just... I have... Every time I get up and I do something like this, Joe,

I'm representing all the witnesses that have trusted me. I'm sorry. I'm representing them. So, when I hear Dr. Kirkpatrick say what he said, it's a personal assault. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, he's just dismissive. When I hear the government dismissive this whole thing, I'm thinking to myself, I take it personally because when i'm out there talking to people like you on these platforms i'm sorry it's just tense for me it's like i represent these witnesses when i'm a voice

for them i come out here and i represent them and they trust me and that means a lot to me so sorry i just no i get it listen it. Listen, man. It's just, like... You're passionate about this. It means something to you, and that's one of the reasons why your documentaries are so good. I give a shit about the facts? Listen, man, if you're right,

and if this is real, this is one of the most important things to talk about, and if it wasn't for documentaries like yours and Jeremy Corbell's and a few of the other ones that are out there, it wouldn't be as big of an issue with people. They wouldn't think that this was real, that there's weight to this. And like I said, when I heard about the Varginha case, I remember thinking, oh, come on, people lie. I always think that. I always think, ah, people,

because they do. Some people like to lie. Yeah always think that. I always think, ah, people, because they do. Some people like to lie. Yeah, no question. But that's not that simple. That one's very complicated. That one's very complicated. And again, that man who goes to the spot where he saw that 25 years ago and he starts crying. And Jesus Christ. I teared up. You know that I showed him? I interviewed Military X, as you know. He's in the movie. But Military X, it's in the credits.

Military X said, for the first time, it all started at Maialini Farm. Maialini Farm is where we took him for the crash site. Was there any indication on the ground? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I flew the drone over the crash site.

I'm in New York City a couple of weeks ago at a conference. And this guy pulls me aside and he goes, hey, James, I just watched your movie Moment of Contact. Holy shit. He goes, you know, I'm a geologist. That ground at the impact site has been tampered with. I said, thank you, because I'm not a geologist. But I took my drone and I flew it over. It's in the movie.

You can see it. You look down at that site and that area looks so different than everything around it. It looks so different. According to Sousa, there was some sort of acid like that was burning from the craft. And that acid is what smelled so bad. And 26 years later, you can see it. Excuse me, it looks very different. So it was the acid from the craft, but it was also the biological smell of the beings?

That too, yeah. So it was a bunch of different... Yes. And so does he think that someone excavated the site? Well, all I know is what I was told. I went to Roswell 50th anniversary and I met with people, lots of witnesses at Roswell at the 50th anniversary. I was in my 20s. And they said that people were shoulder to shoulder on the ground picking up pieces.

And after that, they lit it on fire and burned it and then they bulldozed it. So I would imagine that they might've done the same in Brazil, but I don't know. You know, one of the things that didn't end up in the film, I don't know why I was, I got talked out of it or something. Um, we met a, we met the farm hand at Marilini farm and he was talking about the neighbors all saying they heard a huge boom. It happened like five o'clock in the morning, 4 35 AM, something they heard a huge boom. And there were other o'clock in the morning. 4.35 a.m. A huge boom. And there were other witnesses like truckers that saw it too that actually gave some

testimony in 1996 and I couldn't track it down but again it's an ongoing investigation that truckers saw the thing. There was the farmhand and there are certain things that don't add up like Carlos de Sousa and I love him to death but there was a statement I think I haven't seen it,

but I've heard that he made that one time was that the military trucks arrived within minutes of him getting there, but he's also made a statement that they were there or they were pulling in when he got there. So there's a couple of minutes discrepancy. I don't know. I believe the guy. The guy was highly traumat traumatized He had a visit and his life was threatened and he was pointed at gunpoint to get out of there He guy goes in hiding for 26 years. Could it be that he remembers it a little bit differently? So he described it one way back then another way now just exactly the same But that the military trucks were either there or already there coming just a little variation. That's very possible Yeah, just forgot it definitely that's not as important as what he saw

No, and and then like I give you another example like, you know Carlos de Sousa is convinced that that was on the 13th of because he was going he's an ultralight pilot He's also like a history or geography professor in Sao Paulo That it was the 13th of January and the girls saw the creature on the 20th of January. How did those creatures get from the crash site to the town? Well, there's a river and I've talked to some researchers that think that that's a possibility because the river goes from the crash site right to the area where the creatures were found. Could it be they got in the water? I don't know. Maybe. I have no idea. And what did they do for six days? I have no idea. So the crash was six days different from...

The crash happens according to the witnesses. According to Sousa, he's convinced it happened on the 13th. And the girls, they know. They saw the creatures on the 20th. So do you see what I'm saying? And then how did they get... What happened during that period? What about the record of when the U.S. Air Force jet flew in?

That was the guy Marco Feres. F-E-R-E-S. He said it was January. He was like, ah, 20th, 21st. He's like, yeah, he's like, I think it's 20th, 21st, something like that. So it's somewhere in that range. Oh, totally. Well, right in there.

And the plane lands without authorization from the Brazilian government, and it lands in Campinas. And then the helicopters go from Campinas to Virginia. And then they go from Virginia back to Campinas. They load something on the airplane, and the United States Air Force takes off again, all without any authorization from the Brazilian government. And that's what these guys are saying. Every single military person that we met with, we put a lot of little nuggets in the credits at the end. They all said the Americans were involved because I didn't know. When I went into this, I had no idea. Isn't it fascinating that they would listen to us? It's absolutely fascinating. And I want them to come forward. People on the U.S. side,

come forward, please. We need your testimony. This is the case that could solve this riddle once and for all. Because the people that saw it were alive. And it seems like there's real footage and real photography. What would you do? What would you do for the footage of the creature? You personally, what would you do for it? Would you go to Brazil?

I'm just asking. Just to get it? If you were guaranteed to get it when you got there, would you go for it? If'm just asking just to get it if you were guaranteed to get it when you got there would you go for it if i was you you i'm talking to you i'm just curious you wouldn't do it i'm busy i know you are footage of an alien yeah i'm not going okay but if you go i'll definitely watch the video when you bring it back yeah logan paul logan paul was like well i want to guarantee i said logan there are no guarantees in life. There's death and taxes, okay?

Well, especially to a guy like you who's been chasing this for 12 years. Well, that case, yeah, I know. Well, you know, I mean, I look at Marco Leal and I look at these other researchers and I tip my hat to them. It's amazing. It's a phenomenal case. It really is. Look, it makes sense that we're not alone. And it makes sense regardless of what people like Neil deGrasse Tyson think.

I can't believe you just said that. Yeah. Okay, so here's my thing. We love Neil deGrasse Tyson. He is a treasure to the world. He makes science exciting. He gets children interested. The guy's gregarious. He's funny. He's wicked bright. But when he talks about this aspect, UAP or UFO, we all cringe

because he clearly doesn't know. And he goes right to ET. I'm like, nobody's screaming from the hilltop ET has landed. We're saying that there are structured craft of unknown origin exhibiting a technology far beyond anything that we comprehend, according to the military people I've talked to around the world, and we don't know where they come from. We'd like to know. And I say to Neil deGrasse Tyson, I'm serious, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way,

but I'll put $25,000 on the table right here and right now. If he watches the phenomenon and he has the same position after watching that evidence that we put together carefully with the help of Jacques Vallée and many others to present that case to a jury. If he has the same viewpoint after he watches that film, you tell me, pick any organization of your choice, nonprofit, and I'll give $25,000 to that or I don't think you're gonna change his mind With that document. No Well, no what he's gonna say is what he's gonna say is clearly there's something going on because I even got Michael Schirmer Who skeptic magazine is like yeah. Wow, this is intriguing because you know, you know, Kaku has Publicly stated now that the preponderance of evidence is now it's it Leans in the direction of it being real.

Yeah, no, it's not. Look, the phenomenon is real. The only speculation is what is it? What is it? You know, people jump to conclusions quickly and they start talking about babies floating in incubators out of Alpha Centauri. And that's when you just lose everybody. It's like, whoa, hang on a second. Nobody's saying that. you just lose everybody. It's like, whoa, hang on a second. Nobody's saying that. What we're saying is there's a physical phenomenon taking place, nuts and bolts, craft, that are flying rings around

our fastest jets that have left imprints on the ground. They're picked up by radar sensor, photographic sensors, FLIR sensors. They're seen visually. Some cases, people claim that we've recovered them. Okay. But let's just forget even that aspect of it. Let's just say that, you know, the David Fravers of the world, and those cases dating back forever. I mean, really incredible cases. What are those? Is it us?

Wow. Well, if it's us, they sure have been hiding some revolutionary technology for over 75 years. That in itself is a huge story. They've got things that fly without wings, without visible means of propulsion, without making any sound, any air disturbance, that can do right angle turns at high speed. Everything we know would shatter on the inside of that cockpit, particularly humans. So what I'm saying is we know that. We know that 5% or 10% of this represents possibly originating from a non-human intelligence. That seems to be the direction we're leaning in. So when Neil deGrasse Tyson comes forward and says what he says, I'm like, you're just

not... I've had intelligence folks go, God, I'd like to talk to that guy. Well, the weirdest one he says is that why would they be interested in us, which find hilarious why wouldn't they be interested in us yeah why wouldn't they be of course especially once we develop nuclear technology totally i mean i mean we could fuck up we're we're crazy territorial apes has to be a correlation there yeah i mean it makes sense it only makes sense it all literally only makes sense if you're an alien life form that is interested in the development of intelligent life in the universe you would realize it's probably a precarious balancing point when they reach this apex of

technology especially when it comes to nuclear power and especially when it comes to like what we have available here on earth in terms of natural resources and we battle for it and we control we're we're territorial we control territories we're like aggressive yeah we're we're crazy we're like we shoot at these things warlords we shoot at these yeah we shoot at these things and we certainly have in the past so i mean i think they're probably beyond our ability to interact with them in that way. They're probably so sophisticated that they're well aware of guns and things that could damage them and injure them. But when you think about things like storms, like the Virginia case, like how do you account for, I mean, the amount of energy in a lightning storm is fucking insane. And if they just plan it wrong, which is possible, something shifts.

I mean, we're assuming they don't have control of the weather. We're assuming they perhaps miscalculated or got bad data. Who knows? Or just a weird phenomenon where things, I would imagine that even as technology increases, there's going to be risk in everything. Just like with everything in life, with car accidents and plane crashes. And I would imagine that even at super advanced alien level technology, there's probably the potential for a crash. All right. So speaking of crash, this is something I really wanted to read to your audience.

This is the recent UAP amendment or legislation that was signed into law. I'm reading this directly verbatim. And I'd like to know what prompted this language. Billibrand and Rubio and others, any activity or program by a department or agency of the federal government or a contractor of such a department or agency related to unidentified anomalous phenomena, including with respect to material retrieval, material analysis, reverse engineering, research and development, detection and tracking, development or operational testing. Now, that's right here. You can look it up.

It's the UAP legislation. What prompted that? What prompted that? What prompted the whistleblower stuff? I mean, the whistleblower stuff. What does it say? Protection for individuals making authorized disclosures. Okay.

Shall not be subject to a non-disclosure agreement entered into by the individual who makes the disclosure. Shall be deemed to comply, and it goes on. Does that not say something? That Congress and the senators are getting wind of what's going on? Why would they put that language in there? Reverse engineering, recovered materials? I mean, come on, man.

It's pretty compelling stuff. Well, I'm sure they're hearing more than what we're hearing. Oh, they definitely are. We're hearing a lot. They definitely are. Listen, if it wasn't for people like you, I mean, in your documentaries, it just spurs so much interest

and it gets people so excited that, you know, when I watched it, I immediately had to talk to you about it. I know. I got your text and I was in a workout room. We have this old dad, it's called Dad Bod Class with this guy Marty.

He's Australian. And we're in there listening to like, what's that song? Rocky Balboa. Come on. Dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun.

Eye of the Tiger. We're in there listening. I know, it's so silly. We're laughing at ourselves. We're in there doing our weights and everything. And I always keep my phone by my side because my son is in school. He's eight years old and I got to be available as a parent.

Like something goes wrong. And I hear this bzz, bzz, bzz, bzz. And I was like, ah, damn, I'm doing my thing. And I go and I look and it says, unknown number. It could be Joe Rogan. And I was all, excuse me? Anyway, that was really funny. That's funny.

That was really funny. I want to know your favorite part, if you don't mind me asking this. What's your favorite part of Moment of Contact? I don't know if I have a favorite part. Going over the whole documentary, it might be when that man starts crying. When that man goes to that site and he starts crying because it's so intense. And you just imagine being a person who has this extraordinary once in a million lifetimes event where something from another world, something you can't believe is real, something crashes down and you're there to experience it. And you're of a handful of people.

I know, right? And you have this memory burned in your psyche forever and then someone brings you back to that site. And that guy was just overwhelmed. Yeah. That might have been my favorite part. Me, I think it's the doctor and military actually drove the creature around. I looked that guy in the eyes.

Yeah, I wish I could look him in the eyes too. Oh, man, that was so intense. And I met him a couple nights prior to that, and it was just sussing him out. It was an incredible opportunity. Hey, do you mind if I acknowledge my family for all their support? Sure, please do. I want to acknowledge my family, Rebecca, and my son, Ollie.

He's been so supportive of me. Shout out to Ollie. Yeah, shout out to my son, Ollie, and my sister, Kelly. He's been working so hard, and my cousin Ollie. He's been so supportive of me. Shout out to Ollie. Yeah, shout out to my son Ollie and my sister Kelly. He's been working so hard and my cousin Ian and my other sister Janine and Emily and Felix. You guys have been so supportive.

This is an incredibly laborious thing that you've done. You know, the amount of time and effort, especially this Brazil case. How do you walk away from a case like this if you think it's true? If you think it's true and you're you, you can't. I mean, you can't. You must be compelled.

You can't. It's so important. You can't let it go. You can't put it down. It's just like you have no choice. Like, what am I going to do? I had this guy walk up to me one time and he goes, why do you do what you do? You're so compelled. What gives? I said, well, let me ask you a question. If there was tangible evidence being withheld, I'm not saying this is a fact. I'm just saying hypothetically, if this was going on and if it was being kept in the general public that there's evidence that suggests we're not alone, how significant of a story

would you give that? And immediately he's like, oh my God, if that was true, that'd be the most important thing ever. I mean, that's what we all want to know. And I was like, well, I'm convinced it's happening. So how do I walk away from it? It's almost like what you love kills you, you know? Well, I don't think it's killing you.

Well, I almost did with Eric Lopes. Yeah, that was a sketchy scene. That was a sketchy scene. I think it's important, and I think you should be praised. And I think that if this case is real, and if these people are telling the truth, and my God, it certainly seems like they are, it's unbelievable. I mean, the confirmation that some— And what's fascinating to me is that there's a lot of variation in these things.

There's a lot of variation in these experiences, a lot of variation in these crafts. You've got to imagine there's probably not just one world that's interested in us. That's what I was thinking. It could be all of the above. It could be many worlds that are interested in us. Such a huge universe. It's impossible to even wrap your mind around how big it is. And if something out there is like earth where intelligent life has evolved to a very significant point, but then

keeps going for a thousand years, 10,000 years, a million years, what if they live in a more stable environment where they're not getting pelted by asteroids like we are? Neutralize the aging gene. Yeah. What if they figure something out where they're not getting pelted by asteroids like we are. Neutralize the aging gene. Yeah. What if they figure something out where they're not subject to the same biological ailments that we are? What if they incorporate some sort of technology into their physical bodies? And that's them. What if they're a hybrid of artificial intelligence and biological life? There's so many possibilities. So many possibilities. I mean, it's almost impossible for us to even imagine the variations that could be out there

because you're talking about a truly infinite universe. And the areas, they've already identified Goldilocks planets, more than one, multiple Goldilocks planets in the known universe. My son came up to me a couple days ago and he goes, Daddy, I've been thinking a lot about this. I've been thinking a lot about this. I think those creatures in Virginia, they came from a Goldilocks zone. I was like, oh, my God. That's amazing.

I just about died. That's amazing. So cute. That is cute. He thought about it. He's been thinking about died. That's amazing. So cute. That is cute. He thought about it. He's been thinking about it. I'd like for the next generation, I love the idea of not having all this secrecy. And look, we know for sure there's secrecy surrounding this topic.

That's just a fact. Why? Why can't we just- Well, don't you think that once it begins with secrecy. So if you take us back to 1947 to Roswell, New Mexico, if it begins in secrecy, if the first ever crashed UFOs, if that begins in secrecy, what would compel them to stop that? And how much resources would be involved in disseminating that information to the general public? And why would you do that? Especially the way that the

government has treated us always when it comes to matters of international conflict, when it comes to virtually anything, they lie. And they always come up with a narrative that is very loosely based on facts. And they spoon feed the American public what they want us to hear. Anything that would take away their agency, like if you want to pretend that you're in control of the United States, the United States is in control of the world. But all of a sudden, there's these beings from another planet that behave in a way and move with their crafts in a way that's impossible for us to replicate. We don't even understand the technology. We have no idea where they're from, how they got here.

They communicate with us telepathically. I'd probably shut the fuck up too. If I was the president of the United States, if I was, uh, you know, I just asked that very question to representative Andre Carson a month ago, because I was curious. It's like, okay, you guys got Arrow. Right. You got all this investigations going on. You got all this probe going on. Let's just say that they make the determination

after a careful review of the data, the data that you and I don't have access to, that some of these things represent or originate from a non-human intelligence. Let's just say. Yeah. Now what? Now, does Kirkpatrick go to Congress?

Does he disclose that? It's not his job. So does he go to Congress and do they disclose that? Well, it's not really their job. Basically, they're going to be saying we're not alone. So they go to the president, whatever president that is. They're already so controversial, half the country hates them. So it's going to be politicized.

So the president can't do it. And who is that? What do we represent? 4% of the world population? So we're going to tell the rest of the world that we're not alone? Do we do it internationally through the United Nations, a panel of international scientists? If that happens, then we have to share all of our sensitive private data, right? Potential materials and bodies with the rest of the world. I don't see how they can do it, to be honest with you. And I've never really thought it through like that before. Like, think of the actual execution of disclosure. How might that occur? And I asked that very question to Andre Carson, Representative Andre Carson, the other day, and he's,

nobody's got a plan. There is no plan in place. Wow. Right? It's all wow. Yeah. It's all wow. I want to say one more thing. There's a documentary that just came out. The guy's got a totally kind of different perspective

on the way he puts things together, but the cast of characters regarding recovered materials, it's pretty compelling, and it's called Accidental Truth by a guy named Ron James. And, and I watched it. And again, it's not my style. I tend to kind of be more muted. Accidental Truth? Yeah, Accidental Truth. Where is it available?

Probably on iTunes and Amazon, I'm guessing. But it has a cast of characters that deal with potential recovered materials. And it's a little bit, you know, like the artwork and stuff is not my cup of tea, but I did watch it. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. Anyway, I thought I'd mention that since we're on the topic of recovered materials. So, et cetera, furthermore, henceforth. Listen, man, what you're doing is very important. I really, really believe that. Thank you, Joe.

And if this turns out to eventually get released, you're a is very important I really really believe that and if this turns out to eventually get released you're a real trailblazer and I think the amount of labor and just the intense focus that you put into just to make this one documentary forget about the phenomenon too it's amazing stuff

man I'm glad you're out there I appreciate you very much. Thank you Joe I really appreciate you having me on it really means a lot my pleasure one more time your twitter for everybody it's jay uh at james c fox as in cat james c fox that's my twitter handle okay that's the first time i've ever given it out there you go brother thank you very much appreciate you a moment of contact go watch watch it. It's fucking amazing. Bye, everybody.