The Joe Rogan Experience - #2028 - Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Jeremy Corbell is an investigative filmmaker, UFOlogist, artist, and author. George Knapp is an investigative reporter, weekend host of Coast to Coast AM, and author. http://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/ http://www.8newsnow.com/author/george-knapp/

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hello, George. Hey, Joe. Hello, Jeremy. What's up? Good to see you guys. Hey, man. The two musketeers at the front lines of UFO disclosure. It is scary if that's true, Joe.

I think you guys are. I mean, you're certainly prominent. Can I get the mic turned up on this bad boy? Yeah, there's a little thing right there. You can hear your own voice. There's a volume knob right there. We're up. It's exciting times.

It is. It's very exciting times. I've said it a few times that I never thought I would see it in my life. I would just keep plugging away for this is my 36th year doing this chasing this crazy story I never thought it would make this much progress still a long way to go. But are you Apprehensive at all that some of the stuff that they're releasing is bullshit Of course, who's releasing? I mean when you see these these Who's releasing? I mean, when you see these, the Pentagon's talking about it, when, you know, intelligent officials, you ever wonder whether or not it's disinformation? Yeah.

You want to? Go ahead. So, yeah, I'll take that first. Yeah, I've heard you kind of talk about that a bunch, you know, and I think it's a very healthy suspicion to have. My perspective is a little different in that people are always coming at me with fake information like every day, all the time. But the people in government that we have been able to kind of interface with, I wish there was an adult in the room. I wish that this was orchestrated through the media. It would give me some sort of hope that someone has some

sort of control on this and that has not been my experience okay what is your experience like what do you what's your impression of how it's all happening it's a big question i don't know where to start on that but i just here's what i know i know that there are people in government that want some level of disclosure on whatever this is without defining it. Just there should be oversight. So I know that to be true. There are good people that think that people are running amok and there must be oversight, not just financially, but if these types of technologies actually exist. Right. Who's in control of them and why?

And who has access to them and why? I mean, we have a history of disinformation and misinformation put out to the public and to Congress by the intelligence community, by the Pentagon. They lie all the time. It comes it's part of the turf. It's part of the job. But for them to then go into closed door briefings with members of Congress, with the oversight committees who handle their budgets, for them to lie about that, that's another matter. And I don't think they would, because they could get busted for it. A lot of stuff is coming out now. And I know we get asked all the time, who's behind this push? You know, it looks like it's one big movement, as opposed to a bunch of different things that all happened in approximately the same time. It's kind of been organic. Different people have come forward, and it encourages other people to come forward as opposed to somebody doing a master manipulation of the whole thing. What resistance is there to

this information getting out? There's resistance on like multiple levels. So despite what you believe to be true or not true, the big question is, are we going to be able to verify some of these claims? That's all I care about, right? If we're back engineering some of these craft, then I believe that we should have the discovery process to find out if things like what David Grush has said under oath, that he has literally put his well-being and his safety on the line for. If that is true, then we have a duty to find out. So the pushback comes from many levels. There's stigma. It's fucking huge, dude. Like it is political toxicity for some of these senators to even, you know, people don't want to they don't want me to say I ever talk with them.

It's like a it's like a it's like a toxic environment politically. The UFO thing. Because everybody thinks it's bullshit or you're a loon if you believe it. But not everybody, but quite a few people. Not just that. It doesn't help you get reelected, man. And then when you start poking the bear and going into the oversight committees and the Senate Intelligence Committee and all these things, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is our territory.

Why are you as Congress pushing on us? Why are you doing that? Like, this is our job. We have clearances. So there's that kind of pushback, too. You look back at the beginning of the cover-up, you know, why did it happen? Why did it start? Well, if 1947, this gigantic wave of UFOs suddenly appear, you got Kenneth Arnold, you got Roswell, hundreds of sightings all over. We'd just come out of World War II, and our military is faced with a new threat that they really don't know what the hell it is. They start looking at it and trying to figure it out, but they can't. So they sort of painted themselves into a corner of secrecy. Nobody wants to admit if you're a president or chairman of the Joint Chiefs there's something flying in our atmosphere and we can't control it.

We can't even catch it. We can't detect it on radar. There's not much we can do. They don't want to admit that. Secondly, I think what was told to me by a Senate intelligence guy who was a chief staffer who oversaw black budget operations, he had come out to Area 51 looking into the Lazar stuff years ago, early 90s. And he told me, look, if this is true, if this cover up is going on, if they are diverting millions of dollars, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars from legitimate national security programs to keep this cover up going, as he suspected there were, then somebody is going to go to prison. When it comes out, they'd go to prison.

I think you heard we heard Dave Grush speaking before this House committee in late July, in which he talked about special access programs, hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled into them. Nothing ever comes out. Congress has no oversight. Congress doesn't even know they exist. That's the kind of thing you could send somebody to prison if and when it comes out. And then the final reason, we can't really speculate about it. Maybe there really is a big secret. I wonder about it. If I was told, here's the real deal, here's what's going to happen if this comes out. Society will collapse. It is so overwhelming, so disturbing that it would

hit the fan that everybody would freak out. Maybe there is something like that. I don't know. But it gets dangerous for us to allow military folks to decide, I can know it, but you can't. Dad can know, but mom and the kids can't know. I don't like that. I'd like to be able to know myself. I don't like it either. But why do they think that society would collapse? There was a Brookings Institution Institute study that was done in 1960 where they looked at it.

And, well, let's say it was confirmed that we came out and admitted that extraterrestrials are here. And they speculated, looking at sociological matters, that social institutions would collapse. People would, do people want to still pay their taxes? Do they want to go to work? It was so overwhelming. The fact that we, a lesser species, have been discovered by something more intelligent. We know from human history how that works out. When the Europeans come to North America, we know what happens to the people who are already here, the less developed society. They collapse. They were wiped out.

And I think that that was the projection of that study. The only way to get around that, they said, is to prepare for it over a long period of time to condition folks to get ready for it. And I don't know if there was ever a policy where they instituted that, but it kind of looks like it. All the UFO and alien movies and TV shows and X-Files this and books and reports and children's cartoons. It almost looks like we've been conditioned to get ready for it over the last 60 years. When people talk about the possibility of these being some sort of black ops creation by the Defense Department, some sort of weapons grade drone that moves at insane speeds with some unknown technology that they've developed in secrecy. That kind of falls apart when you go back to 47. If you go back to 47 and you're seeing these vehicles that are behaving in a very similar

way, or at least described in a very similar way, where they just jet off at insane rates of speed, no visible means of propulsion, no sound. That's the one thing that brings me back. God, they seem to act the same. At least some of them do. And if we're talking about 1947, we can really safely assume that they did not have drone technology capable of super hypersonic speeds at that time. I'm really glad you mentioned that because that is a big part of the issue here. It's like people can just say, oh, this is really special projects that are even being hidden by our own government. The thing is the UFO phenomenon has been ubiquitous.

It's been everywhere in the world, and it's been going on before 1947. So somebody had that technology. Now, I hope, I do hope we've had some sort of ability to get derivative technologies. I know they've been trying to do that if we believe the core concept that we have craft that's more advanced than ours that we're trying to reverse engineer. So the fact you bring that up, and I want to touch on what you just said, the explanation I've been given, we've both been given, is that there are true national security concerns about this technology, that the cover up or whatever, that it has to do with what will happen if we make a breakthrough in this technology and that can be weaponized. So the secrecy you could say might,

I mean, some people have convinced us, have tried to convince us that there's real true national security issues with this in that once you admit one thing, those next questions are going to come and maybe we can't answer those yet. We don't know. So that's the fear is like, it's like the Oppenheimer movie, like, you know, shit's been kept pretty secret, but stuff has come out. It's like, what happens if we admit the fundamental truth that there are craft of unknown origin that are more advanced technologically than ours? Doesn't matter where they're from. What happens if we admit that? So people are concerned, from my opinion, within government, that if they let that out, the follow-up, they're not going to be able to deal with. This technology has been seen throughout human history, on every continent, in every culture, for as far back as humans have been around. That is not our technology that was flying around pre-1947. Dave Fravor was here in this chair, Joe, talking to you, and he talked about the Tic Tac incident from 2004.

As he testified before Congress in late July, we didn't have that technology then to do what the Tic Tac did. We don't have it now. We don't have it. If you look back at the paper trail, this is what got me hooked on this topic in the begin with. I can't go out and find UFOs. I don't know the cosmic meaning of all this stuff, but there is a paper trail within our government, documents, memos, reports that were generated by the Department of Defense before the Freedom of Information Act existed, before they had to worry about the public ever seeing these

reports. Those documents paint a pretty clear picture. General Nathan Twining, who became chief of the Air Force, he was also the first Air Force guy to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He wrote this document in 1947, the Twining memo, where he talks about these things are not fictitious or imaginary. They're real and they're not ours. And we don't think they're the Russians either. It's not our technology. How did he describe it? It's not fict the Russians either. It's not our technology. How did he describe it? It's not fictitious or imaginary. It's real. But how did he describe the crafts or how they behave?

Metallic. They can appear and disappear. We can't detect them on our sensors, whatever I think it was radar back then, that they can outfly our best planes, fly circles around us. There's nothing we can do about it. We have no defense mechanism against them. And then there's the paper trail starts there. There was a study by the FBI and the U.S. Army in 1948. Then the CIA, after it was created, got involved. They've been studying this stuff for a long time. And the documents where they speak to each other, very frankly,

this is real. It's not us. As the 1960, they put out a memo saying this is serious business. You know, we need to figure this out. I think there are inescapable national security implications for this technology. There is a race for it. We're trying to get it. The Russians are trying to get it. The Chinese are trying to get it. Whoever gets it, they win. Are there some sort of reports about the Russians and the Chinese also having recovered crafts? Dude, he smuggled a ton of classified documents out of Russia himself during Glasnost and Perestroika. He went and met with the heads of the UFO programs in Russia during that time period.

He came back with all those documents and actually supplied them to some people. That happened. It had a lot to do with Harry Reid's decision to go ahead and support funding because those documents show that the Russians are trying to do what we're trying to do, which is to take this stuff apart and figure out how it works. And what year was this? This is 1993, the first time I went. But their study lasted. They had the biggest study in the history of the world. From 78 to 88, the USSR sent out an order to every military unit in the vast Soviet Empire

that any UFO, any orb, any ball of light, anything weird in the sky, all has to be investigated. And that information had to be funneled to the Ministry of Defense, to the desk of a guy named Colonel Boris Sokolov, who was in charge of this program. And I met him, and he shared a lot of that information with me. And he admitted, we're trying to figure this stuff out, because if we could duplicate that technology, we could kick your ass in terms of stealth. We could beat you at your own game on stealth technology. So they were trying to do it. They're trying to figure it out. We heard bits and pieces that they have recovered crashes as well. So do the Chinese, maybe the Israelis.

I mean, also in these documents. And can you tell them who you gave them to, that whole stuff? Can you tell them that? They got into the hands of the U.S. government. And then that was after I came back from Russia the first time. I went back again in 96. A lot of the people who had been willing to talk to me during Glasnost were now afraid. They would not meet with me.

The people who had gone on camera changed their tunes because the whole country had changed in that time period. But the documents also went to OSAP. That's the program that the DIA ran. Bigelow was the contractor for it. And they hired a bunch of Russians to go through those documents, figure out the structure of the Russian UFO program, and did a lot more analysis than I could do just by myself. And in these documents, they talked about shoot-down attempts, which is something that we'll be hearing more about over the next 15 weeks, I hope. So in Russia, they had this policy at first to engage these things and they lost pilots.

Yeah, they had 40 different incidents during that study where Russian warplanes chased UFOs. Three of those cases, the UFOs turned around and shot them down. They disabled the planes and the planes crashed. Two of those pilots died. And after the third crash, the Russian Ministry of Defense put out the order, leave them alone. They may have, quote, incredible capacities for retaliation. Just leave them alone. And one last thing about that blew my mind.

We did an episode about this, like him going to Russia, the whole thing. They talked about in those documents that they knew how many satellites that we had dedicated to looking for UFOs. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. I met this Russian scientist who had worked on their version of Star Wars. He lived in one of these secret cities. He'd never spoken to any journalist, let alone a Western journalist. And he started telling us about the work that they

were doing. He showed me this tabletop model of a laser weapon that he called the weapon of the aliens. But he said he'd been involved in the Russian space program in the earliest days. They had satellites up there that were seeing these things coming in and out of space into the Earth's atmosphere and going out. He said, the Americans, I know that you guys had those satellites. You were seeing the same stuff we were. Their intelligence agents got information from the U.S. They knew we were collecting information back then. They know we're collecting it now. And when they said that they had jets shot down, is that, do we have instances of jets getting shot down in America?

We do. It's kind of sketchy because a lot of those records, we have records of the planes going down, but there's no indication that the UFOs were responsible other than the Captain Mantell incident. It's a pretty famous UFO case where he chased a UFO and then crashed. They think he might have run out of gas. And I think the Air Force tried to explain he was chasing the planet Venus, which is preposterous, you know. Yeah, we have some. The CIA actually fully funded a movie narrated by Rod Serling. It's called UFOs Past, Present, or Future.

And there's two versions. And you can find it online. This is the most incredible UFO movie of all time because it's funded by the CIA to try to apologize for that incident, saying he chased Venus. It's a cool old school documentary on UFOs narrated by the Twilight Zone guy, huh? Wow, yeah fact

So the Russians how many crafts of the like we supposedly crush said that the United States is in possession of 12 We should we should Back up on crush right like okay. What I'm thinking is something big happened. We had these hearings, right? And everybody knows Grush cause they saw him for the first time during that, in those hearings, he did not say that. And so there's an important thing there, what he said and what he couldn't say during those hearings. So I'm not going to say that Grush has ever said that that's not in his dobser like that's not authorized shit if somebody said that i don't know who said it all we know he said was right there in that hearing okay you see what i'm

saying it's like there's a lot of rumors out there and i and i don't know so this 12 you've heard it from people and i've heard it from people. Not from Grush though. Okay. Okay. So I'm confused. So what has Grush said? Grush said they definitely have physical crafts. So he was really, so let me just set the scene for you with this hearing thing.

Right. So I know when people think this is like orchestrated, man, we fought for every millimeter of doing that hearing like I personally did, you know, and so did George. And the idea was, what can the public what can we put out to the public and let everybody know this is important to us? It's the first time in history that you have Commander David Fravor, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and then one whistleblower, a guy named David Grush. We can't validate what he said because it's all classified information. But Commander Fravor, friends of ours, you know, Commander Fravor, he like just told what happened to him. He chased the UFO.

Then you've got Ryan Graves, who his whole squadron has been seeing these things. You've had both on your podcast. But Grush stood up there and he was very careful with his words. And I want people to know why. If you look at that setting, you're going to see right behind him was a guy named Chuck, Chuck McCullough. Chuck McCullough is the former intelligence community inspector general. So like the cops of the intelligence community and he was right behind david grush who is his client so he's representing david grush because david grush put a whistleblower complaint he put yeah and look at those two handsome guys right there so there's um yeah this is the biggest

conspiracy photo of all time can you imagine people seeing this and being like what are those idiots doing up there with him but so behind david with the beard the glasses in the back he looks so happy yeah dude yes you're a foes people think that that guy with the bald head is james clapper by the way i got a bunch of yeah it wasn't like a bunch of comments that clapper was looking at my notes he's just part of a ryan's organization as a but you know here's the deal man this photo is kind of hilarious because George lived like Joe George had ontological shock when we were in that room it's like he's sitting there okay I mean he's sitting there and seeing after all this time this shits being said out loud so so what happened was the seats were kind of like

designated for us because George and I were supposed to testify by the way but then common wisdom says why have these journalists guys when you can hear directly from the firsthand people? And we agreed. But what we did was we put on congressional record statements and people should read them if they haven't. They're on congressional record. I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs, but he named names and programs. But what you're seeing there is, and I kind of had to fight for this, you know, is getting his lawyer behind him should be like an obvious fucking thing. When a guy's going up to testify under oath in front of Congress, if you believe him, he's speaking

under whistleblower protection. Dude, it was hard to get his lawyer behind him. I had literally had to put the lawyer behind him. So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like, careful, Dave, careful, which he did like a bunch of times. And then there's George looking all scrunched and everybody's like, why Jeremy over there with no one next to him?

I think people are a little afraid of me because a little bit of a maniac sometimes. Whatever, we're there. Dave starts talking. They ask him questions. These weren't pre-scripted or anything. We're talking about what could be asked for sure, but they weren't pre-scripted. What Dave Grush said, and correct me or add to if I get this wrong, Dave Grush said,

I did an investigation. It was my job. I was hired by, and this is a guy from the National Reconnaissance Office, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Like this guy is, he's been in the intelligence community a long time. And he sits there under oath and he says, I did an investigation. I interviewed, it was my job to look at over 2,000 special access programs, like black programs. over 2,000 special access programs, like black programs. And it was my job to find out if any of them had to do with UAP and if there's any money being hidden, like misappropriated theft. And he's like, after interviewing 40 witnesses,

I found a ton of shit that supports this. And I've, in fact, he said, I found people who worked on the craft firsthand. And they had to come in or they willingly came in. He called them hostile and non-hostile witnesses. And he's like, so I did that whole thing. The second I did that, which was my job, I was given the job, reprisals started happening

to me. So he smartly did a whistleblower complaint through the Presidential Protection Act 19 or something. He got the head of the ICIG, the former head of the ICIG, who's a lawyer, and he says, fuck, dude, here's what I know. Here's what people don't know. Is the ICIG, so the intelligence community, did their own investigation into David Grush's witnesses and what he found. They interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said, David Grush's claim is both credible and urgent. So it's not like just one guy telling you.

Our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them under oath in the right secure settings. And they're like credible, urgent. So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened, but you know how he kept saying in the appropriate environment, if you've got clearance, we can do that. I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non hostile people that worked on the craft, you know, biologicals. He even said, he's like,

I'll give that to you today. We just got to get a skiff and we got to make sure that you have access, you have clearance. And he was denied a skiff that day. He's a credible guy. He's the real deal. I mean, he had a career in the Air Force, served in Afghanistan, a distinguished career. Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force. That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed. And the guy who was in charge of the task force, Jay Stratton, gave him a job. Go find the special access programs that

are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology crash retrievals reverse engineering all the stuff that we've always heard rumored and he did he found it um most of the juiciest stuff that he found he can't say in an unclassified setting it has to be because they will get him they will bust his ass if they can they've already tried like four times and that's something offline we'll talk about. There have been attempts to get him silenced, un-muzzled, by the way, to not do podcasts or shows and stuff, right? To get him muzzled by people that are trying to say he's talking outside of his dobser, which is like what he's allowed to talk about.

So they're looking for one word that he says that's outside of that like i get asked by by people in the government has he ever told you the number of crashes has he ever told you locations like i'm gonna fucking answer you first of all second of all no he hasn't because that would be illegal if it were to be true so he is authorized to talk about a very limited number of things is that correct and they're not vouching for their authenticity. DOPSER process, which is, I don't know what it stands for, but it's like a pre-pub process. He very smartly, because his lawyer's really smart,

former ICIG, he's like, write it in, what you want to talk about, and see what they come back about what you can't talk about. So they're not saying what he's saying is true. They're just saying you can talk within these parameters. I would like to see if what he's saying is true. So're just saying you can talk within these parameters. I would like to see if what he's saying is true. So we just need that option. So who gives him the authority to talk about these things? No one gives him the authority. He's taking that all on himself. He's a true

whistleblower. Whether you believe his claims or not, what he's doing is legal, but it is, I mean, it's a career killer, right? DoPSER says they go through it and they make sure that things that are like highly sensitive are classified, right? Like you can't say this word or this program or this name. So they kind of do it as a pre-publication thing. That's the process. Does that make sense? I wrote a book with Colm Kelleher and Jim Lekatsky about the DIA's UFO program.

It took DOPSER 14 months to approve our manuscript. So they take their time. They take their time. But also when you get pushback where people are trying to entrap him or get people to say that he said something out of school, the Dobser people are like, no, he's fine. Like he's talked within those parameters. He just has to be careful to not accidentally say something that is outside of those parameters. And right now is a very sensitive time for that, you know, immediately. It's interesting. We met him in Huntsville, Alabama

at a conference, the SCU conference. It's a UFO event. We went down there to interview somebody else and to get him on camera. And we had been told this guy might, there's a guy who might introduce himself. And Jeremy was shooting video of me sitting at a bar at the moment that this guy walked up and introduced himself.

So he had that moment on camera. And then we got to know him a little bit. A couple months later, he comes out to Las Vegas. There was a Star Trek convention. We were going to speak at it. And he comes out because he likes Star Trek like everybody likes Star Trek, comes out and spends two days with us. The next day, he flies back Sunday night. Monday morning, he reports to work.

Armed security guards escort him out. He was suspended. His clearance was suspended. We were worried, oh, Christ, was he seen in our company? That's what happened? But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire. They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were going to fire him

and permanently suspend his clearance. And was he already discussing UFOs at that time? Not with us. He had already been investigating it on behalf of the UAP task force. And he had shared information through the whistleblower process with the inspector general. Yeah. Let me just break it down real quick. So here he is.

He gets this job. He's looking at all these special access programs. He's a fucking brilliant guy. He's a physicist by the way, you know, like he's, he's a brilliant guy in general. So he discovers all this shit. He starts getting reprisals. And then the moment George is talking about, I kind of had heard about him. All of a sudden he comes up to him at this bar where we were at. That's the first time that he talked to anybody outside of government. Now, he didn't share anything he shouldn't, but he's kind of coming to George and then to me to say, I'm doing this whistleblower thing. I am concerned for my safety and just in general for my career.

He wanted a journalist or journalists to know not to report on it. So imagine that. We don't even break the story that we had before anybody. Right. So what I did, cause I'm his harpoon, I did a deep dive into this guy for months and months and months. He actually came to my home, you know, met my family like, and I got to know him and I, I, we, we vetted and vetted. Okay. This guy is who he says he is. He's a hundred percent who he says he is. So is so we kind of got that layer of trust this is not some sham or something like that but then what happens is what george is talking

about the second trip so i'm already talking at this uh star trek thing because my my friend growing up from my jiu-jitsu class was rod roddenberry so he's like the son of gene roddenberry so he's just like dude jeremy come talk to a bunch of Trekkies about real UFOs. And I'm like, cool, I'll do it. It's in Georgia's hometown. So that was a great opportunity for Dave to come and meet with us again and just talk to us, right?

Yeah. And then that Monday when he gets back, he's walked out of the Geospatial Intelligence Agency or NRO, depending on which one you want to identify him with. He's out, man. And they did some bullshit on him like time card like out of 12 000 billable hours maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it right they were doing anything they could to fuck with this guy so that was our first like heads up oh dude how this guy gets treated is going to dictate everybody

else that has come to us in private saying i I think this is illegal, what I'm doing. Right. Among the complaints they issued to try to take away his security clearance was that he had mental health issues. Yeah. So he was suspended for a couple of months. They did a background investigation of his allegations, the allegations that have been made against him, and they cleared him, reinstated him, reinstated his security clearance. He stayed on the job for a couple more months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left. And that's when he started plotting the next chapter. And now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again. After

he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans. They got to find a media guy to go after him. This article in The Intercept. Yes, The Intercept did a smash piece. By the way, we already knew all about Dave Gresh's PTSD. And at the time, his best friend, one of his dear friends, just talk, got off the phone with him blew his own brains out Right. So he was like drinking. He was in a bad place the first day day one. I talked to him I said what dirt are they gonna pull up on you? If you're telling me it's true They're gonna get some dirt and he goes look man. I had PTSD. I dealt with it. I survived it

Nothing horrible happened, but you know, he told us day one man that intercepting was some bullshit they come in and they they try to discredit what he said because of his ptsd shit and the thing is that happened to lazar like if you believe or don't believe don't care that did happen to lazar too where people try to discredit his character to try to minimize what he's telling you so we saw that with dave and that was only the visible stuff. I'm telling you, things behind the scenes that have been done to Dave and his family, it's disgusting.

Not even just pull your clearance kind of shit. There are people that don't want him, that he's an embarrassment to the Department of Defense if what he's saying, he's coming out of school and he's saying, he's coming out of school and he's saying, I saw some BS. They don't want that. So we are in a pushback phase. Not only the intelligence community and military folks tipped off a reporter and said, go look for this. And they found some police records of where he was drinking too much and was suicidal. And that was adjudicated. It was

looked at. The Department of Defense, his employers looked into it. He'd gone through treatment. He got past it. He was a better person, a stronger person for it. But they leaked that information to besmirch his character. And now we see additional pushback in Congress. So this committee that held this hearing into UFO UAP matters was a subcommittee on national security of the Oversight Committee, the larger committee. Since that hearing happened, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the House. Enough of that bullshit. We're not doing that anymore because, in their words, it could be an embarrassment to the Department of Defense.

You're damn right it would be an embarrassment for what's going to come out. I mean, it was a big success, you know, to have this publicly done. It's the first time in history that we have direct witnesses, like two pilots and then a whistleblower. It was the first time in history. We fought for every millimeter of

that territory to get that to happen. It was not received well by the intelligence community. You know, they did not like that that happened. And that's pretty telling to me that we should do it again. Now, when Grush first found out about this stuff, he was tasked with trying to uncover it? It was his job. It was his job. And why did they, like, what was the suspicion? Like, what was the initial impetus to get him to look into this stuff? It's the suspicion we've had for a long time, that there is a crash retrieval program, that we have recovered technology that is not made here

that we're trying to reverse engineer it and figure out how it works so that we can duplicate it right but who who sent so there's a uap task force so the uap task force was formally created by congress to look into the bigger picture and they suspected that something was wrong yeah jay stratton was the head of it. He'd been at the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was with Naval Intelligence. He kept getting pulled back into the UFO arena from different jobs. Very credible guy. He was in charge of the UAP task force.

He put together this amazing briefing document that included film and video and photos of UFOs that have been gathered by the U.S. military over the past 30 years. He'd give those presentations to Congress, to the Joint Chiefs, to defense contractors, because he wanted people to know about it. And as part of that job, he assigned Dave to look into special access programs. Can you find evidence of crash retrievals, reverse engineering, any of that stuff we've been hearing rumored for 30, 40 years? And this is really about oversight, okay? reverse engineering, any of that stuff we've been hearing rumored for 30, 40 years. And this is really about oversight. Okay. So the way I understand it from people involved is that, look, we have to have oversight over these types of programs and technologies. Like

it's good. We're doing them. It's good. We keep it secret. Like that's their standpoint, but they're like, we have to have a process of oversight do you remember the the church committee back in 60s was it 60s 70s um so these so the church committee everybody in the intelligence agency that I know will say there's BC and AC before the church committee after the church committee it basically was a way to level the playing field so there's not this type of you know shenanigans that are going on the fucked up shit they learned from the church committee. So what they're saying now is, look, some stuff needs to be kept secret for national security. If we can turn some of this shit into weapon systems, right, like we don't give out blueprints to make an atom bomb.

We admit atom bombs are real, but we don't give out blueprints. So some of it needs to be kept secret but they're all about oversight if you don't have communication between these subcontractors that are working on this exotic stuff if it exists we need to be aware of that at some level we meaning senate and senate intelligence committee all this stuff oversight so without that oversight you're just letting people run amok and go crazy with this stuff. And I'll tell you firsthand, right? There are people that have come to me and George that are currently employed in agencies and they feel like they are being held hostage in these programs.

Like there's ways to keep people in programs and to not let them out by dangling this like, well, what are you going to do if you lose your clearances? You're going to go work at Home Depot? You know, that's the way that I've heard some people describe to me and George of why they're so terrified right now is because their whole lives, their wives, their dogs, their children are all dependent upon these little faction groups kind of keeping them in a program. If that's true, that's fucking horrible. And what just happened to Dave Grush, the sliming of Dave Grush by this really pretty poorly researched article is an example to all

them. Anybody out there is's a whistleblower, you're thinking of coming forward and spilling the beans, this could happen to you. Did you ever have an affair? Did you ever have an out-of-woodlock kid? Did you have a drug problem? Because whatever it is, we'll find it and it'll come out. It's interesting that they would use PTSD to discredit him for a war veteran. That seems insane. You're shaming someone for seeking help from something that most soldiers come back and have to deal with. That's really insane.

It's low is what it is. Well, it doesn't make sense either. It just doesn't make sense. Like, how can you do that? It doesn't make sense in terms of the reader's perception because I think most readers are going to look at that and go well the guy came back from war and he sought help how many guys come back from war and they're fine isn't it that's probably less and I'll be quite a bit less and a lot of people never get over the PTSD and they take

their lives the number of veterans that take their lives in this country is astonishing four times as many that die in combat. It's astonishing. It's terrifying. Thank you for vocalizing that because to me I'm like, what the fuck? Well, that's just some fucking egghead writer who has an agenda. But it's also there's this natural inclination that I think we all have to poke holes in something that seems fantastic. It's like this guy, what is he doing?

He's coming out. He's a whistleblower. Has he seen these things? Oh, he works for the UAP task force and he's uncovering this? What do we know about this guy? Oh, he's nuts. Oh, he has PTSD. He was suicidal.

He's making things up. He's unstable. Instantly, you can sort of dismiss. And I understand if I was watching this in 2D reality, and I'm just watching the TV, and I'm seeing these weird guys behind here, and I'm thinking, this is a setup. I do see that. And I do see that, why would you take this seriously? But if you're in our shoes, mine and George's, and you see this kind of go through, and you talk with people on a daily basis, people come to you over years, you vet them. Man, look, from where I'm standing in the 3D version of this, I wish it was more organized. I feel like we're fighting, like pushing that.

What's that dude that pushes the boulder up the hill? That keeps rolling down. Sisyphus? Yeah, some Greek, yeah. That's what it feels like, right? Like, you know, one step forward, two steps back. I think we made a lot of progress, but I see how it looks so bizarre on the outside. But I will say for sure, Dave is who he says he is.

He had the job that he says he did have. And he absolutely fundamentally believes that what he uncovered is non-human technologies. And he said that. And I believe that we have the right and the need to try to do discovery on that. And the only way we're going to do that is if people say we want to know. And the hearings help with that kind of thing. Now now this stuff I would imagine is very compartmentalized so I would also imagine there's probably some people in government that whether it's because of their ego or whether it's because of whatever position they have that they need to have access to this information or they want to have access to information do we know who does and who doesn't you want to go with me go ahead yeah um

short answer is kinda like i you know we we kind of know you know who has control of some of these programs now we've never george and i have never found somebody that knows the totality of it but we have been, as he likes to say, pretty high up the food chain. So we get to a point where we get to people that have actively worked in what they call the legacy UFO program or programs. So these are like the actual UFO programs that are not public. And when we get to people in that position, the brick wall for us is always this. They're like, I'm not for disclosure. And I'm like, okay, well, tell me to stop then. What do you mean? The public, you shouldn't kick a sleeping dog is one of the things we were told.

And I'm like, well, what? What, what is so freaking scary that the public would know something that even though we're friends now and you have direct knowledge that you, first of all, won't testify to Congress, we got no's. No way am I doing that. I'm like, why? There's something. We keep getting up to that point where there's something and we don't know what it is. And maybe it's just they want to keep Gollum's ring. They don't want anybody else to have control of this shit. Or there's something they're not telling us that is so gnarly that they don't think people can handle it. There are, you know, different scenarios you could explore.

For example, you know, you ask what could be so terrible that they can't tell us about it? Let's say these aliens, wherever they're from, made us, that we're a genetic experiment, that they created our religions, our religious figures, that we are an agricultural product, that somehow they harvest us, that our time is limited, that once the experiment's over, poof, we go away. I remember when there was a push back to have a designer universe, intelligent design universe in the schools. And I wrote a column about it, just said, hey, be careful what you wish for, because you might find out that the intelligent designer isn't God that you're thinking of. It might be some alien science project or something like that.

You know, you can imagine a lot of different things that would be really disturbing to people to come out. I don't know if that's the reason for the secrecy. I suspect it has a lot more to do with national security, us not wanting the Russians and Chinese to know how far down the road we are. We know that to be true. We've been told that.

You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. It's probably a multi-layered reason. I just don't know the top layer. It's killing me. Well, it's interesting because how would they know the top layer? I mean, what kind of confirmation would you have to have that we were genetically engineered? Like how, how, how much data would you have to have before you accepted that? So you got compartmentalization, you said, right? So I know a guy in the 70s that was working at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory. He's not ready to break from the fold yet, right? He's not ready to do it.

But he was working on supercapacitors in the 70s or something. And he said something like, I know the three companies that make these. He was given a device with no markings on it no nothing and he was to reverse engineer it he's convinced this was not made by us it was so efficient almost a hundred percent efficient so you get people like that what was it like a super capacitor is that the word for a doctor super conductor so it was just some device that he was as an electro kind of specialist was working on

But this is just a one-off story to give you an example exactly as a super. I don't know dude. That's what Google's for Yeah, I wish I was superconductivity it would allow the transfer of energy at like they're trying to get it low temperatures Right means an electric current can flow but the electrons are jostled around a bit as they move So they lose energy as they travel. This jostling is called electrical resistance. In a superconductor, there is zero resistance, and an electrical current can flow perfectly smoothly without losing any energy. That sounds right.

And so this is something that apparently... So this was something that was just discussed recently about a superconductor at room temperature, but it was kind of debunked Oh, is it? Yeah, I believe it was on the news. Yeah, was it debunked? It's been debunked a couple of times. They keep turning. Yeah, taking another stab at it. It's like Chinese propaganda or something No, I think these I think they couldn't replicate it or find out what it is That's as far. I think that's exactly it. Yeah, they couldn't couldn't replicate right? So check it out though what i can say is um so i have two pieces of graphene and they're like these little squares and one is

they're metamaterials mean meaning it doesn't occur in nature we made them i have two kinds two pieces one piece is a three degree variation from perfect atomic layering the other one is like a seven degree variation from perfect atomic layering. So like graphite from a pencil, I think, and they layer the atoms perfect. The one that's seven degree and the one that's three degree, if you have an ice cube and I take the seven degree of orientation off from perfect and I push it into an ice cube, it's like a hot knife through butter. It instantly gets cold and your finger gets cold and it stops in the ice, right? Because it's transferring the heat. I guess this is a superconductor. I think it pushes

the heat from my fingers right in. So that material has unique principles and properties because of the way they atomically layered it. The three degree one, it goes much deeper and faster because it's like a faster transaction of that heat. So we've learned that metamaterials, when we orient them, we make them in a certain way, they have special or unique properties. So a lot of, so back to this guy, a lot of what it seems like we're doing is trying to get derivative technologies from something that's more advanced than what we have. And they could be little things. So he, all he saw was a superconductor. Okay. I believe that's the right word. That's all he saw. He only has suspicion. It's never been put to market since the seventies.

What the fuck? He worked on one. So that's one type of like, I don't know, whistleblower or witness that we got, but there are other types. There are other one type of like, I don't whistleblower or witness that we got, but there are other types. There are other people that are like physically working on the machines. Then there's people that are just in a bureaucratic role. Then you've got people like David Grush, who do discovery on finances and programs and interview people. This whole tapestry or mosaic of individuals leads me to feel that where there's smoke, there's fire. All of this, there's something to it. It's just, where is it from? I think we're in kind of a pushback mode now, though, since that hearing. That might have been the high watermark. Jeremy and I have been talking about it publicly for a while. The closer we get

to the goodies, the closer the public gets or Congress gets to actually seeing the saucers or finding out where the programs are, the harder these guys are going to push back. The true keepers of the secrets have dug their feet in. I mentioned about this House chairman, Intelligence Committee chairman. He represents Wright-Patterson Air Base. He gets a lot of campaign donations from big aerospace companies. Wright-Patterson, of course, home of Hangar 18 and all the rumors about Roswell wreckage

and other things being stored there. That's his district. He's the guy that said no more hearings. Is that Representative Turner? Turner, Mike Turner. So he kind of put the kibosh on it. Hmm. He claims China is a bigger threat to U.S. than aliens.

Okay. Well, that's probably true. I mean, I don't know. They're probably doing a lot of stuff. I would say that's probably. Do you guys remember the American Computer Company? No. Do you know that story?

The American Computer Company, I'm pretty sure that's the name of the company. American Computer Company had a whole section on their website about the back engineering of technology that came about from the Roswell crash and about how Bell Laboratories in New Jersey had an Air Force base right outside of it that was supposedly to protect New York City. They're like, but the problem is New York City's – you got to fly over to New York City. Like it seems like it's protecting Bell Laboratories and Bell Laboratories is where he said that they back engineered all this shit including fiber optics including like the discovery of a bunch of different things that came out supposedly of back engineering that wreckage so you can. I mean, I hope that's true, dude. I hope that if we have... Is this it? This is the accuracy

of what this is. Colonel Phil Corso is the guy who... The truth is out there and so are the cranks. From 2000. That's true. Yeah. Is the company existing anymore? I don't think so, but this is... Okay. Don't believe everything you read online. American Computer Company and Secret Alien

Research have been around for four years. Jack Schulman, owner of American Computer Company, now operating as CompAmerica.com, posted a story to his website. He claimed that Bell Telephone Laboratories had stolen the idea for the silicon chip from the alien spacecraft that supposedly crashed in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Prior to Bell's announcement that year that John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, and William Shockley had invented the transistor, computing had depended on vacuum tubes. So why is it that 50 years on, we can't use the aliens' technology to violate the theory of relativity to travel beyond light speed?

Well, that's a big jump. It seems that a cartel of technology companies and oil producers have colluded to prevent the development of high-speed chips. Mr. Shulman posts his theories at roswellinternet.com, where he also claims to have invented PCs and Windows and to be working on a chip that will run at 12 terahertz, a thousand times the speeds of today's fastest CPUs.

One way you can guess the veracity of web rumor is the writer's typing style. If an author randomly switches to uppercase for effect, then he's probably a crank. That's the only thing I could really find just right now. That's a fucking half-hearted attempt to dispute what he said. There's a guy named Phil Corso who was an Army colonel. He worked in this technology office in the Pentagon, and he's the guy who came out with a book on the 50th anniversary of Waswell. He said, I saw that stuff.

We had it in a couple of file cabinets, and he personally took it to Bell Labs, claims to have given them the chips that inspired the later work. You know, a lot of people don't find him credible that he takes too much credit for doing all kinds of other things in history. But I met him before his book came out years ago, and Bigelow and Hal Puthoff and those guys went back to see him and Jacques Vallée. And they thought he was credible. They didn't necessarily believe everything he said. But it goes right along the lines of what you're saying there. And so what did he describe that he saw in those file cabinets? He said fiber optics, computer chips, among other things. I think he said night vision was inspired by something they got out of those chips.

I mean out of those ships. I have no idea. You know, it's like, it would be so cool to, it would be so cool if we had success in derivative technologies and they were in our hands. I think, I would like to believe we're more responsible with that shit. I know for a fact that, and George can attest to this, that the UFO topic

is taken at the level of above weapons of mass destruction within our government, within government agencies. They take it that seriously. So that is not a throwaway statement. I'm telling you, I know that. And George can attest to it, right? So here's the deal, man. I know that. And George can attest to it. Right. So here's the deal, man. If that's true, then I do understand the perspective. Whoever gets the technology first wins. But my understanding is that we have not been able to duplicate the core technologies. And if that's true, because it's so far ahead of what we've got, what we can do is kind of like get derivative technologies. All you have to know is what the legislation that was put into the National Defense Authorization Act. I know that's not a word that normal people are going to understand or hear about often, but I've become

educated on it. So the National Defense Authorization Act of 2024, it ends up being signed, hopefully by Biden. Any president has to sign it. And also the Intelligence Authorization Act. So the language that they put into these is all people need to know because they wouldn't fabricate this out of thin air and they wouldn't spend resources on creating this language if they didn't have more than a good suspicion that we have this kind of tech and that we're trying to reverse engineer it. It's online. Anybody can look at Schumer, I think put out a big bill and then there was an amendment to it. And if you read this language, they're like

any of these non-terrestrial craft, I mean, they are so thorough. They're like, if they're being hidden in private technology, we're cutting off your funding So that they've got a carrot and a stick approach. I've talked to some of the people that formed this language, right? So what they're saying is the carrot is if you come forward within I think 90 days Once it's signed and you tell us that you have Technologies that are not from here Then there'll be no penalty to you. If you don't tell us that you have technologies that are not from here, then there'll be no penalty to you. If you don't tell us, your funding is cut. We're going to find out. Your funding is cut. So it's

like a carrot and a stick kind of thing. If you read this language, it's almost insane to read because they know that there are these programs. Now, where the craft or things that they're working on are from, you know, how do we even get there to know that? I don't know. But they do know that we have this shit, these craft of unknown origin. They use the term non-human intelligence in that legislation 26 times. I mean, it's astonishing. There's this Senate majority leaders, Chuck Schumer, standing up there in a nod to his late mentor, Harry Reid, saying we're going to get to the bottom of this stuff and it's real. And he acknowledges that that legislation was crafted

with the White House's cooperation. So it's the Biden administration, somebody in that administration signed off on this. It's astonishing. People don't like it, though. Like, if you're in the IC and you've got these, like, secret programs, or if you're, like, let's say with Lockheed, let's say you're Lockheed and you got some really cool thing, they might be looking to move it now because I don't think they're really worried about funding being cut off. I think a lot of these black programs can be funded asymmetrically,

like in different ways than getting money right from Congress. But I'll tell you, that language tells you everything because it shows you that they are taking it so seriously that they have some sort of pre-knowledge that these programs exist. In fact, they probably know where these objects are being stored. Now, you said some number, you know, you and I might talk to similar people, but definitely that number, you know, you and I might talk to similar people, but definitely that number, you know, floated around. I have no idea if that's the correct number. I just know that they have been told where these holding facilities are. They have been told all they got to do is get the authority to go knock on that door and go inside. What is the explanation of how we acquired these crafts?

There's crash retrieval, but then there's also ones that are intact. Remember Lazar said that nearly all of the ones that he saw, except for one that had a big hole in the middle of it, all looked intact. It was as if they were dug up at archaeological sites or there were gifts, like throwing a cell phone into a chimpanzee cage. Here you go, crazy humans. Knock yourself out. Let's see how you do with this. That they're just left there for us to find and as a challenge to us, I guess. Yeah, I have the same problem as you. Like I'm a motherfucker is not crashing.

If they're coming from somewhere else they're not crashing right but people will say to me look man um you know we have air plane problems and sometimes even planes crash and maybe there's other circumstances where these things could have crashed because they were hit with some technology maybe two of them were dog fighting electrical storms i don't know i don't know that was the virginia brazil story right right electrical storm also radar some people suspect that really powerful radar can it can interfere because some of the radars are also weaponry that's the thing like um you can have energy uh reception but also output on something so there's some cool devices that actually shoot like high high laser weaponry but my thing is i don't know if they really crashed george is kind of edging towards maybe archaeological digs maybe gifts the lazar said that one of them supposedly was from an archaeological dig right yeah do they know where not that i know he was you know no he was just

literally that's one of the many things that they tried to impose upon him. But remember, they tried to impose a lot of shit on Lazar. He is so succinct with, this is what I know to be real. I had hands on this. Now, they told him a whole bunch of crazy shit. Like what? Dude, just the, like, I should put that shit out. I mean, just crazy. We are viewed by the aliens as containers of souls.

I mean, you're not going to tell a guy working on propulsion that. So he was able to sit down for a brief time and go through a document, like a huge briefing document. In there, he saw what they said was a biological biopsy of an alien. He didn't care. He was going to the propulsion part. But they told him so much wild stuff. He's like, this has to be a joke. But then when he said he differentiates, he goes, but when I, you can't fake, he said, what I saw, you can't fake your hands trying to get close to the reactor

and not being able to touch it. You can't fake something that big lifting like that. So he says, I know for sure what i worked on was not from here but he goes everything else they told me it was words on paper and i respect that about him and maybe they wanted him to leak it to john lear remember he's like friends with this guy john lear who's like already on their radar the best best photo of Area 51 from Lake Level ever was 1977, the year I was born. John Lear's kicking it out there, stirring up shit at Area 51, taking photos.

So he does a whole panoramic of photos of Area 51, sees a truck coming from a distance, being John Lear, takes the roll, puts it under his ashtray, puts in new film, snaps it again, they confiscate his film. But he had some underneath his cigarette lighter or whatever. And he actually gave those to me.

So I got the best shot of Area 51 you'll ever see from lake level was by John Lear. Now, Bob knew John. That's where all the conspiracies come in because John's like this UFO nut, the godfather of conspiracy. But when-

How did Bob meet John? Well, this is your turf. It's true. A guy named Gene Huff. This is post-exposure? He met him before he worked out there. Really? There was a guy named Gene Huff who did a real estate appraisal for John Lear's house.

And Gene was friends with Bob. And Gene and Lear struck up a conversation, brought Bob in to meet him. And it was only after that that Lazar got hired out there. He would have arguments with Lear about this crazy UFO stuff. Because I'd already done a couple of interviews with him in the late 80s. With Lear. With Lear. Before I met Lazar.

So Lazar was not a believer. He said, I don't believe it. Poor John. He's crazy with this UFO stuff. So this is fact, and it's so funny, like knowing all these guys, because I wasn't there like he was, but I get to talk with everybody and grill them. I think it was Jim Goodall that was in the car with him.

He remembers Bob saying, oh, poor John Lear. And Jim Goodall is like, why? And he's like, because he believes this UFO nonsense. So that was where Lazar was at prior to getting the job out at the test site. He didn't believe any of this nonsense. In fact, so much so that, remember, I think he told you when he first went in, they had a little decal of an American flag on the saucer. And he thought, oh, those idiots. Everybody thought UFOs were from outer space and they're ours.

And then he quickly realized, wait a second. those idiots everybody thought ufos were from outer space and they're ours you know right and and then he quickly realized wait a second that you know this isn't this can't be ours it's fascinating to see now that dave grush has come forward and give some credence to we have reverse engineering programs we have a crash retrieval program aerospace companies are stashing this stuff in some hangar somewhere all the stuff that laz Lazar said is being true, they now say, oh, gosh, I guess it is true. But that Lazar, he's still a liar. We don't believe him. You have to kind of do some mental gymnastics to do that.

It's just fascinating when you see these crafts move exactly the way that he described them in 1989. Yeah. Straight up. It's pretty wild because you're seeing footage from like, what is it, 2014 or something like that? Yeah, the gimbal. Yeah. And it's like it moved exactly like he described,

turns on its side, shoots off. So that's a common thing is Bob Lazar must be the luckiest con man on planet Earth to get so much shit right over all these years. What's that? What's the Controlled Disclosure Campaign Plan? What is this from, John? This is listed at the bottom of that document. They're talking about the NDAA for 2024,

and this is the UAP section I've been reading through. Controlled Disclosure Campaign with respect to unidentified anomalous phenomenon recorded records originated prior to review board termination. This review board, I'm not sure what this is. It talks about all the, like they get all of this information and you better give it to them is sort of what it says. They want to set up a review board that would basically declassify stuff that they come across. Yeah, but I'm being told by people involved that that's not

good enough. Like this is one step, which is to get this presidential review board and you get a bunch of sociologists and scientists and some Nobel prize winners. And you look at what can be declassified for the American public in a controlled way. And that's really nice. They're doing it. But everybody on the inside that I know is like, we need a church style committee. It's not okay to just have a disclosure panel. You need oversight. And to get that oversight, we need access. The only way that we're going to get that is by forcing, like, where are all the senators

in all this? We did this hearing with all these Congress people. Where are all the senators listening to the public being like, okay, I'm going to get after that. They're the only ones with the power to create a church style committee. Where are the senators right now? And so that's really, this language is so important. I hope people go look it up and they read it because it's just astonishing when you hear what they're actually doing. And I think it's a good step. I find this one a little weird too. The exercise of eminent domain. Yeah. They can go and take anything from anyone who's got anything. Yeah. Federal governments shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence

that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interest of the public good. Wow. Yeah, dude. The fact that that is in that paper is crazy. So it's not passed yet. So they're going to debate this when they get back from what they call recess now. So it's really good that everybody hears this. This is going to be debated by your representatives.

This needs to pass or we're screwed. This has to pass. And then the president has to sign it. It's important, too. You've got to figure that if, say, Lockheed or one of these big aerospace companies really does have this stuff, it's incredibly valuable. I mean, it would be worth untold millions of dollars, the technology that could change the world forever. So they don't want to give it up, if not just for national security reasons and because of the value of it, monetary value. So this would change that and take it. I mean, I guess it could apply to Element 115 if there's a piece of that laying around somewhere. I don't know. I mean, actually they did say private or corporate kind of. So it's like basically, so I have, I am of two emotions about this. One is like,

so the government just to come, gets to come in and take everything like that feels a little weird, but, but, but I do believe that the spirit of this is to get to the core of the question. Have we been reverse engineering technology not from here? And if we have been, there needs to be oversight. So I am for this, but this is not going to help the American and global public learn more. And that's the thing we have to remember. That's why Grush can't talk unless he's in a skiff with people with access. These people are not for what George and I are for, which is that we need to know the

truth about this. I want to. I'm greedy with the truth about this. But this is not going to tell the American public the truth. What it's going to do is within the intelligence communities, it's going to inform everybody on a bigger scale, which means we could have better scientists on it. We could have better people working on it. I do hope that splashes over to the public that we get to learn more about this because

I want to learn more about it. Of course. Who doesn't? Yeah. It's just wild seeing that language. Yeah. It just does not seem like they would put something like that in there unless they knew something. Yeah, exactly. This is Chuck Schumer, Senate majority leader, who got up.

He didn't just slip it into the bill. He made a big deal about it. He made an announcement, a speech on the floor and emphasized that, you know, having that non-human intelligence in that bill 26 times is astonishing. And the fact that he says the White House supported it shows how far we've come in a short period of time. I mean, I would I'd never saw that coming from Schumer. We knew that Marco Rubio and Kirsten Gillibrand in the Senate were were into this issue, but did not see it from him. Where are they now? Right now? Why is it being so damn quiet? You know, the thing is, they need to in order for us We need one last time we need like a trip in my opinion We need like a church style committee where we get more information to the public because I want the public to know as much as

They can Don't you think they're probably quiet until more information comes out? Like they're just kind of like waiting to see what what becomes of this who's waiting like the Senate. Yeah Dude, the thing is is that if i had a political career and a hundred things that i'm dealing with the public needs to tell our representatives what we want them to do so are they kind of sitting back and being quiet maybe i know rubio came out and said look they're so careful of saying what they don't know and i appreciate that but but he's like look i have been testified to or people have come to me

and our groups and they've said that they're worried about their own well-being that they have worked on these directly worked on these things so he is being informed and maybe they're being a little quiet but now is the time for them to pass this through they have to debate it and go for it man this is a big opportunity that we have now to get closer to this truth. It might happen. It might not. The fascinating answer was the guy saying that it's not in the public good for this to get out. God, I wish I wondered, I wish I knew rather what that meant. Because the big speculation, there's a bunch of big speculations,

but the big one has always been that we were genetically engineered. I mean, that's something that Zachariah Sitchin talked about when describing the Sumerian texts and those ancient clay tablets that show this very large, strange-looking humanoid with a humanoid on his lap that has a tail that's very bizarre it's like childhood's end have you read that book arthur c clark no so how they acclimate the human society if i remember the book properly is they have all these motherships just hover all over the earth and they sit there for generations acclimating people to them because the ETs or whatever, they've got a problem.

The problem is they look like the fucking devil. Like Fortale. That was the book. I don't mean to give it away for people, but it was so crazy. Oh, that's amazing. So speculating right now, just speculating because it's driving me crazy. What do you think if this is true? We're just saying if this is true, if we're being visited by something. Yeah.

What could be so powerfully devastating that these keepers of the secrets have literally, all of them, pretty much stopped at the same place in talking with me and George? Which is like, I am not for disclosure on this. There's something they're not telling us that is so heavy. Well, it could be a bunch of things, right? It could be the fact that they do want to get control of the technology before enemies do. That makes sense. But it also could be the genetic engineering thing, because there's a weird thing with human beings and lower primates. The lower primates are all still around, you know, and there was a bunch of different kinds of humans that didn't make it. You know, Neanderthal and Denisovan and there's a bunch of other ones that they keep discovering new ones.

But, God, there's a giant leap between us and the other primates, a weird one, real weird. We vary so wildly in terms of how we look. We vary so wildly in the environments that we can live in. We have hyperintelligence in comparison to everything else that's on the planet, like giant leaps above in terms of our ability to manipulate our environment we're not like anything else and you know the thing about when you look at us and you look at primates you go oh yeah we're similar you know when you look at us and you look at chimps you look at you know bonobos and stuff you're like yeah i guess humans are kind of similar to those and a little bit like you've watched chimp empire that show on netflix yeah but boy big fucking difference and they're

still around they're still around looking exactly the same and we somehow another advance to this very bizarre thing that flies around in metal tubes all over the planet and sends video through space. But we're so much different than them. And, you know, they are our ancient, ancient ancestors, right? They're our ancient cousins. Like, what happened? Would people freak out if that story came out and it was confirmed? Well, I think it would really throw a monkey wrench into religion for sure.

I think religion would probably adapt and, you know, that this was also created by God and these are messengers of God or something like that. They would probably come up with some sort of – if that turned out to be absolutely true. But, you know, the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is the biggest mystery in the entire fossil record apparently. And they don't know. There's a bunch of speculation, a lot of, like, questions and guesses and, you know, different things that we could have done

that could have facilitated that. But that's a big one, man. That's a weird one. It's weird. I got a question about that, right? So this is something I'm struggling with. Like, could you tell the general public that the base understanding, you know, that we're not alone, that there's some craft from somewhere else? We don't, we don't have to say from where we don't know. Could you tell

them, could you say that to the public officially in some way and, and still avoid what they call strategic surprise? Like this idea that, um, like we, we can work on it and work on it really well and make sure that we don't get strategically surprised by another nation you could keep your security in place could you do all of that if you let the one thing out the box if it was officially acknowledged that we're not alone or do you think people would just start going crazy for more answers because I think that's this the fear of people they can't just say thing. I think in today's day and age with the news cycle that we have now where things are just in the public eye, instantaneously, nothing sticks, everything keeps moving. There's scandals and wars constantly.

I don't think it would register. I think people would have to have actual physical encounters with UFOs before it really made sense to them. Because I think right now it's just this idea. It's in the air. It's vapor. It's just like you could talk about it if you like. You could read about it if you like. You could watch blurry videos if you'd like.

But it doesn't have any weight in your real world. like, but it doesn't have any weight in your real world. Now, if we start seeing them, you know, if they're like hovering over Los Angeles and they're indescribable and they rocket off into insane speeds and smaller crafts come out of the mothership. And if that kind of shit happens, that, that would get real weird. That would get real weird real quick. And that could lead to chaos. That could absolutely lead to chaos. And if we somehow or another had proof that you know maybe we are some sort of a science project or some product of genetic engineering or maybe the the human farm thing is real that they they literally created us to try to get us to do things here or to try to recreate souls, which is like a very bizarre thought, you know,

that the soul is a thing that we carry around. A commodity. And that there's some sort of value to having so many souls. That's like, this is old school. This is my gateway drug into UFOs was John Lear. And first time I sit down with him, you know, he's like, got this big cigar and he's looking at me and he's like, we're all property. We're property. You know, I'm like, what the fuck is he talking about? And he, and he was talking about how the aliens saw us as kind of like a wine and our bodies are containers and our souls are being matured as like a commodity,

you know, for these, like he was a wild dude. Like I'm not saying I believe any of this. I'm just saying he gave me that idea day one. When he said matured, like is a soul of an intelligent person more valuable than the soul of a dummy? I wish we could ask John here, but he's dead. You know what I'm saying?

Like what does that mean in terms of like aging our souls, maturing our souls? Maybe through experience, you know, like hardship experience, love, joy. I'm just talking crazy right now, but I can do the John Lear. John would say every experience you have in life is what makes your soul mature from your joy and your love to your hate and your anger live without envy hate or greed that's my john leary wow he was it makes sense if your soul is ultimately a representation of who you are and how you stand in life it would it would make sense that that would be fortified by your life experiences. It would make it stronger like everything else.

Like your life experiences make you wiser. If the soul is a real thing, the more value you put into the world, the better you behave, the nicer you are, the more you learn to be honest and truthful. All the different things that we hold up as high qualities for human beings, it would make sense that that would like enrich your soul. And just getting better in life, right? Like for you 20 years ago and you today, we all hope that we look at our past self and we say we've learned something. We become a better person, become more loving, empathetic, better and more creative at presenting ourselves into the world and making a difference. So that's a cool way to look at life. That was his cosmology.

I mean, it's a fascinating idea. But what's terrifying is that if we're a commodity, then we're like beef cows that are eating all the grass that we want because it's valuable for them to get fat you know that that the chaos on this on this planet is actually engineered to ensure more rich souls you guys should talk about that yeah he likes i know some people that that have been pretty far up the food chain that believe that, that there is mass manipulation of human affairs on a global scale for reasons that we can't understand. And mass manipulation by humans or non-humans? Non-humans. Manipulating humans by non-humans to do things that they want us to do.

What kind of things specifically? War, for example. Really? There's a, what's it called, the gods of Eden, a guy named William Brambley, an attorney, sets out to write a book about the causes of war. And everywhere he goes throughout human history, he finds evidence of some kind of an exterior manipulation of human affairs, that they somehow benefit from us killing each other on a massive scale.

William Brambley, gods of Eden. And what is the speculation? Like, what could it be that they would benefit? How would they benefit? Maybe it's souls, maybe releasing souls so that they can recycle them. I don't know. It's been 25 years since I read that book, but it's worth a read. I look back at the earlier this year, we had three UFOs, I'm using air quotes, shot out of the sky by the U.S. military. That's the story that gets printed in newspapers. U.S. military shoots down three UFOs, one of them being a Chinese balloon or whatever the other ones were. But, you know, the public paid attention for, what, two, three days? And then it's like, hey, when's that new Barbie movie coming out?

You know, just move right along from it um yeah and that's that news cycle it's pretty wild but it's also again you can only hear about ufos for so i mean and i'm a nut obviously i'm obviously ufo nut we're friends here yeah i could only hear about it for so long before i'm going, I need something. I need to see something. Show me some metal. Show me some hardware. Show me a fucking frozen being.

Something. It just. UFO fatigue, bro. Yeah. Yeah, it is UFO fatigue. I got it, too. I hear it all the time. I hear it all the time.

I mean, when, you know, don't tell me anymore. I don't want to hear about any whistleblowers or hearings until you show me the flying saucer and the dead alien bodies. Yeah. We get that all the time. Of course. We got to keep going. Of course. We do have to keep going.

Well, I mean, you guys, I mean, George, when did you first break the Lazar story? Was that 89? 89. And when you broke that story, was that your introduction to this world or had you already had a curiosity? I had done some stuff starting in 87. It was John Lear. John Lear had walked in the station with a stack of documents. He had helped us break the story of this secret plane out in the Nevada desert that was invisible to radar, stealth fighter. And so he had some credibility with us and he plopped those documents on the desk of my managing editor and my buddy and mentor, Ned Day. Ned,

this is your next big story. It's the biggest story in history. Here you go. Ned looks at a couple of pages, shoves the plow back across to Lear and said, this can't be true. If it was true, I'd already know about it. You know, it's kind of cocky, like many of us are. And so before Lear left the newsroom, I said, let me take a look at that stuff. So he gave me all these documents. Most of it was stuff from the Freedom of Information Act. You know, these agencies like the FBI and CIA, before FOIA was the law of the land, would deny that they ever did any studies that had any interest whatsoever in UFOs. Then when that was signed into law in the mid-70s, they had to release thousands and thousands of pages that showed the lion through their teeth,

that they had been studying it. All these pages of information of studies and experts and panels and all kinds of things like that. So Lear gave me that stuff, and that's how I got hooked is the paper trail that established that our military, our intelligence agencies were telling the public one thing. Don't worry your pretty little heads. Pay attention. Move along. Nothing to see here. But behind the scenes, they took it very seriously. were telling the public one thing, don't worry your pretty little heads, pay attention, move along, nothing to see here. But behind the scenes, they took it very seriously. They were very concerned about where these things were from and how this technology works and the fact that they can't do

anything about it. So that's how I got hooked in 87. I started reading about it and then meeting Lazar in 89, almost by chance, and realized, all right, look, I'm going to report on this. I've got to really dig in and learn everything I can. And I was cocky enough to think, well, give me six months. I'll have this whole thing figured out. That was 36 years ago. Wow. It's got to be crazy to see it now in front of Congress.

I had a moment. I did. I did. I had a moment. I did. Tell him. Tell him. I did. I had a moment. I just kind of had to bow my head there when it came over me after all this time, seeing what was happening unfolding in front of me. I just never thought I would see it. And what was really amazing is the partisan divide was gone suddenly.

There is an issue that the two sides, far left, far right, can agree on. There's AOC and Jamie Raskin on one side of the room, and there's Tim Burchett and Matt Gates on the other, and they're all asking questions. And it's not just questions prepared by staff. They're doing follow-ups. They're into it. They're into it. It was amazing. It was just absolutely amazing to see it. Have you heard any speculation as to why they want to hide the information? Have you heard anyone that says that this is why? Yes. So to the best of my knowledge, directly to me so many times, I can't count, is strategic surprise that we have to be ahead on this, that we know that Russia has a UFO exploitation program, reverse engineering. We know China has one. If these were theirs, they wouldn't be having these huge programs that they've actually

announced and bragged about in China. So it's strategic surprise. Whatever we can derive from these technologies, we know that it can be weaponized. We know that it is so powerful just by the propulsion systems alone, how they move. They suspect it's gravitational. Just like Lazar said, the top dogs that we know that have worked on this problem set for our government believe by observation that these propulsion technologies are gravitationally based. With that said, it goes back to Lazar. We can't produce gravity, but what if there it was, he said, something that produces gravity. So if that is true, then they know that just even the laser weaponry technology that a colleague of mine and George actually did study for our government. I don't know how far I can go on that one.

But that's true that people are looking at unknown technologies and exploiting them for laser technology. That is fact, factual stuff. He'll tell you more about it later. So if we get left in the dust, everybody believes we're ahead right now in the secret little reverse engineering. Why do they believe we're ahead? Well, maybe it's hubris. I hope we're ahead.

Everybody that I know and everybody that George knows believes that right now we are still ahead on these reverse engineering programs. So let's just couch this. Let's say, let's believe it for a second. We're reverse engineering UFOs. It has been conveyed to us in the most direct sense that we believe we are ahead right now, but the way China works, they could quickly get a quick advantage because they don't have the same restrictions that we have. They can control every piece of that program, no questions asked. We can't quite do that. So there's a fear that we're

going to be left in the dust at some point and we'll have what they call strategic surprise. So that is a good reason that I understand that people want to keep this shit under wraps right now. I don't believe that if people, if they said, look, you've been seeing them all through human history. We're now capturing them on multitudes of corroborative visual types of evidence from thermal to radar. That's the big deal about what George and I released about the 2019 swarms. It's corroborative visual evidence, right? Now that we have all these sensors that are so cool, just tell people, whatever, we're not alone, whatever, whoever these are from, maybe we don't know. I don't know that that's going to go over so well, but I feel like we should tell people

that if we find out it to be true. So most of the reason why they're withholding the information is not worried about the collapse of society. It's worried about having control of this technology. I believe so. There's no way you can separate national security issues from this. The last time I was here, Joe, we talked about nuclear incidents where UFOs appear over nuclear missile facilities, missile bases. They disable those missiles. That's happened in our country.

It's happened in Russia. I don't know if it's happened in China, but it's real. You could neutralize the entire nuclear arsenal with one of these machines. Now, that's real national security. It's so interesting that our government says, you know, dismisses Project Blue Book because there's no threat to national security. And yet it's clearly has national security implications if they can control our nuclear weapons the the friends of mine as far up the food chains I've gone have said this you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies you can't tell part of this story because no one would ever be

satisfied with part of it you can't be halfway pregnant you know so it's national national security and I can get with that. Like, I get that. I understand that explanation. There's just a step further that I'm not understanding yet. But I understand the national security. What do you mean by a step further? Like what we were talking about before. Like, what is it that's so devastating? Because we get to that point with people sometimes.

What is it that's so devastating? Like, they're okay with us reporting on stuff, like, as friends. Like, they're like, you know, I'm not going to inhibit you in any way george and i are in a weird position so of course people are always trying to trick us all the time every day like major good tricks they would love us to fuck up like cgi video sure like you know how you send me stuff sometimes i'm trying to think about it so imagine that on like agi video sure like you know how you send me stuff sometimes i'm trying to think about it so imagine that on like a much deeper level like trusted people that come to you with stuff and you just know it's a fucking trap right so i've been in that position numerous times now

check this out i think it's cool to say um we have totally been warned, man, that as journalists, we are doing what is good for the public so we can obtain and release things like the Baghdad Phantom, the Mosul Orb, like a bunch of these. So people leak stuff to me and George. And as journalists, we have to look at it and be like, does this endanger national security? Because these are from military platforms. So if it does, we do our best with lawyers and everybody. We try to make sure we don't fuck up. And everybody knows we're patriots. We're cool. But he and I have been told numerous times the biggest worry they have is a foreign intelligence agency getting their hands on some of the weird madness that comes

our way that we haven't been able to vet yet or to make sure for national security that it's okay. So people are cool with us as journalists in America reporting for the good of our country, but there is a real worry that other agencies outside of the U.S. might get some things that we haven't vetted yet properly? Did I explain that okay? Yeah, I'll just add this, is that we were told earlier this year, and in fact, the Department of Defense spokesperson announced it. There is a Department of Justice investigation into two of the images that we made public this year. That's kind of unsettling when you realize that there was a criminal investigation to figure out,

not necessarily us, but at least how did it get into our hands? And what was this image? Well, there's a number. I mean, so in 2019, there was a swarm of UFOs over 10 Navy warships. George and I-

Those are the pyramids? So whatever shape they were, I don't even care. Check this out. And this is the bigger point. In 2019, this thing happened. George and I obtained and released footage. That footage was radar footage, thermal footage, infrared footage, and deck camera, like normal

video footage. People were missing the point. It's the first time in history that you have military footage on four different types of platforms or four different types of optics, corroborative visual evidence that go with the stories. It's like David, Commander Fravor, if he told you he saw the tic-tac,

that's one thing. But you also got a video from Commander Chad Underwood because he went up and filmed it. What we provided was four types of corroborative visual evidence over a warning area in a training zone, which we should talk about. So that type of, of now we have so much evidence to that in 2019, that swarm. So

imagine if you're the DOD and George and I say, by the way, we're running a story and here's some footage. Do you want to comment on it? And they're like, we didn't have some of this footage. Do you want to comment on it? And they're like, we didn't have some of this footage. I'm like, what? Like, how did you not have your own footage? So that's already put us in a weird position with the Pentagon and the DOD. They didn't.

How do reporters get more information than they that they have on their own? Do they demand your sources? They can't do that. They would never do that. This is journalism in America. Come at me with that. They'd like to know. They certainly like do that. This is journalism in America come at me with that They'd like to know they certainly like to know but but that is a good job like just to be clear for everybody That's an important job is to plug leaks

So if somebody's going out with national security things like and selling them to Russia or to China, oh fuck Yeah, so they got a really important job I wish them well on their job But as journalists in America we can report on this stuff. And as long as we don't hurt national security, we can report on this. Can you tell everybody the basics of that one particular sighting? Yes. Happy to. Cool.

Start with the Omaha. Okay. So do you want me to do it? Yeah, sure. Okay. Okay. So do you want me to do it? Yeah, sure. Okay. So 2019, there was a series of UFO swarms over 10 Navy warships, but it was simultaneous. So at any given time around one ship, there's anywhere from six to 14, I'd say of these, just say unknown units, right? So they appear like lights, but when you use thermal, you can see that they're

kind of egg shaped and it, and minimum size is 14 feet. They weren't small, right? So the question is from our military. So from the Omaha, the people fighting the ship, they're like, the heck is this? Right? So they start, um, filming it, getting them on radar, all this stuff. How are they behaving? So they weren't doing extreme movements, but I have been able to contact some of the Hilo pilots, right? And these things were self-luminous, they were illuminated, and they actually were going into the water, if not out from the water. I know for sure they were going into the water. That's called transmedium. We talked about that

on one of our first podcasts together. So all we know, let's just call them, we don't know who they're from, but there's these objects that are doing this ballet around 10 Navy warships at one time and no one's taking claim for them. So the people on the ships, their job is to fight the ship. Now they didn't feel under threat. So like on the USS Omaha, when they're seeing all this, there's this, they call the triangle of kinetic action, like when you would fire on it, right? And it's like intent, opportunity, and capability. You have to fulfill that triangle to be like, oh, I'm going to blast that shit, right? The thing is that triangle wasn't fully

fulfilled because they didn't really know the intent, weren't sure of the capability or opportunity. So they're kind of just observing these things. However, I do know on multiple ships, they applied what they call the Ghostbuster, which is like an electromagnetic like package that can down drones. But these were not like DJI drones. These were like big objects. So they were moving in this like ballet. But remember, all the ships can communicate. So now, all these years later, But remember, all the ships can communicate. So now, all these years later, I have people on every level of those ships telling me, this is my experience. This is what we saw. They would go around. So and I have gotten more testimony. There was a swarm off the coast of Japan in 2021, where the ship was 300 miles from any other ship or landmass. And these things were coming from the West. And the only thing over there is Hawaii, right? No landing, no launch point.

So that also, by the way, I'm not going to say that one. There's swarms on the East Coast as well. The point is this happens more than people think. Now, is that an increased frequency? Are we seeing an increased frequency in UFOs right now, right? It's an interesting question because what we do know is we have better technology to sense them, right, and to record them. So are we just seeing more of them because our sensors are better? Why always in training ranges?

Well, that's bullshit. It's not always in training ranges. The reason you know about it is because of leaks and people bringing out footage. We have the best sensors on these ships in the world. So we just hear about it more on these training ranges. USS Omaha. So this thing was 14 feet round, spherical looking thing that followed the ship for an hour. They watched it on thermal for an hour. They had it on radar. There were several of them up to 14 at a time. Now, what is big and round and travels? Now, these ships are 100 miles offshore at night off the West Coast, and these things are floating right along with them.

Is that a balloon? There's no tail. There's no rotor. They don't know how the hell it was flying. There's no exhaust. They don't know how it was propelled at all. And there was a bunch of them. How fast were they moving?

It's not top speed wasn't matter. It was the, so not like super impressive, but they don't know, my buddy, somebody said to me, I'm going to really regret saying this to you, Jeremy. It's like they just appeared. And he really hated saying that to me because their job is to know where these came from,

where they're going, where they launch, where they land. So these things would come up. So we know they would go into the water. The sentiment is they were coming also from the water. But the thing is, is that they were unable to down them with these electromagnetic packages. There were so many of them. They're that big. Where did they land?

Where did they launch? And so there was a fake news story put up in the New York Post. They said, case solved. It was some New York Post, 2019 Swarm says, case solved. There was a, hold on. The Bass Strait didn't have the deck capability to land or launch up to 100 plus of these 14 foot or larger objects. Additionally, the Bass Strait was in port in Long Beach while this activity was happening. And we know people that boarded the ship on behalf of our federal government to look to see if they were part of the fuckery. Right. And then we got somebody that came to me that says my one job that night was to make sure that nothing was landing or launching off the Bass Strait. Because I wish I could say that we did catch the culprits, whoever launched all these. And he says, I can't report that to you. We didn't. I watched it the whole time.

But the New York Post put out this fake story that the mystery was solved. Why do you think they did that? It's a great question. Just debunking, you know, typical debunking. It's Chinese drones 100 miles out to sea at night. You don't see where they were launched from. You don't see where they went to. There's no ship out there that could be a launch platform for it.

Where the hell did they come from? It's an easy way to just dismiss it, but the facts don't fit it. What's the best footage that we can look at? The total best footage of that event series? The one that's real famous is the black and white one. It's the USS Omaha thermal. I know I put it on Extraordinary Beliefs. Yeah, it's this USS Omaha.

There we go, there we go. There it is. So this is the one that went into the water. Yeah. Yeah, they believe it went into the water, this particular one. But remember, there's 14 rolling right now at this time, at this exact second. There's 14 of them swarming the ship. So this is just, they have, what is this?

What are they locked on here? So this is thermal. So you should see plumes of heat. You should see rotor wash. You should see wings. You should see something that allows this to propel. The shape you're seeing is the thermal signature, but they also believe that to be the actual signature

or shape of it there. And it blinks out. So they said splash, splash in the video when you release it, but that doesn't mean it splashed into the water. Um, like there was no splash. It was just like, they believed it went into the water. They actually sent, this is not public, but I know it to be true. They sent a submarine to try to look for any wreckage of this thing. Uh, nothing.. So imagine 100 of these. Let's say, I thought about this the other day.

What if they were kamikaze drones, right? Okay, that's something. But the problem is they weren't, where did they launch from? And also, where's the wreckage if they're kamikazes that find it? So it's, okay, so this is a real problem for the people fighting the ships.

They feel that they failed in their duties because they weren't given the right opportunities to investigate and engage. And it happens more regularly than our Navy would like to admit. That there are unknown objects in the South China Sea, out by Japan, off the East Coast, and as recently, I'll say as this year. What was the video or was it just photographic of the triangles in the sky? So that's a big topic of debate, right? So that was from the USS Russell. So on the USS Russell, let's say I have one person that comes to me. That's these things.

Right. So the common wisdom is that they were, oh were oh dude thank you actually for this opportunity to explain this so check it out you see optically a triangle shape right okay that's the radar footage from the oh my there's you see you see optically the triangle shape now people said I made it up that me that I made up pyramid in shape now I put that in quotes when I first reported on it because that's what was in the intelligence reports that happened to pass in front of our eyes,

that they have other sensors and that this thing was pyramid in shape. Play it, Jamie. Triangle by angle of observation. It ends right after this. I was just trying to get the pyramid. I just want to see it moving around. Why is it flashing?

Do they know? So that's the whole thing. So there's people that work in these UFO programs that did a full report on this, none of which is really public. So the internet says that this is bokeh effect. So like the lens on the PBS- 14, somebody taped a triangle onto it. So what you're seeing is a lens artifact. And then in Congress, they backtracked from it because they realized the PBS 14 doesn't have a triangle aperture to make a shape of a pyramid looking thing. And they said it was the camera that was being shot through. They actually did that in the first congressional UFO hearing and say that it was that. So to back up, we don't know the shape of it. George and I don't know. All we know is that in briefing documents that we were exposed to, and they have other sensor systems to determine shape. They said triangle by angle of observation, pyramid in shape.

So I can't justify to the public the shape because it's just if they change their mind, hopefully they tell George. Here's the other part that people leave out of this discussion. They say it's bokeh effect. It's actually showing stars in the sky. They leave out this little inconvenient fact is that. It's actually showing stars in the sky. They leave out this little inconvenient fact is that they have a range finder on the ship. These things were 700 feet off the deck of the ship. If it was a star, it would have fried earth into a cinder if it was 700 feet away. It's not a star. It was an object that was 700 feet off the ship.

There were two at that moment. So there's a briefing slide that we acquired and made public. And there was nothing in it to say it was classified. It was a briefing slide. And in that briefing slide, if Jamie finds it, it actually tells you, you know, triangle by angle of observation, 700 feet off of the aft or whatever of the ship. So look, we're getting down to one piece of evidence. What people forget is that this was a three-night event series with over 100 objects airborne at one time surrounding 10 Navy warships. So the big question is, well, who knew our warships were there?

And what Commander Fravor said at the hearing, we don't test experimental shit on ourselves without warning people that we're doing it. He's like, that would be really dangerous. And I'll give you an example. In 2019, one of the ships, I've spoken with one of the people fighting the ship. So they're called the TAOs, tactical action officers. And what was reported to me was that when they were getting swarmed, that the Admiral ordered, what's the name of that rail gun or whatever? I forget the name of it. Some cool name, but it's like this really high powered shooting metal up. And they're like, we had active active flights we had helos in the sky can you

imagine somebody being like we're getting swarmed pull out the gatling gun or whatever it is you know like they the whiz the whiz or oh or something i don't know um these are still images yeah this is the slide that was used in this um in a briefing that was prepared by the uap task force that was the briefing that was delivered to the joint Chiefs, to certain members of Congress. And in this time, there was two of them that were over this ship? At this exact time? So, yes, so three. So they say three unknown UAS, unmanned aerial systems.

Because I asked the people that wrote this, why did you say UAS and not UAP or whatever? And, like, we didn't really have that language yet of what to call it. So they debated over it. They said, that's the right term. So this image is to represent, you know, one of these. What does the S stand for in UAS?

Unmanned aerial system. And there's another one. Unmanned. So that is one option. And I asked one of the guys, why did another one unmanned so that is one option and i asked one of the guys why did you say unmanned and he goes because of the the size of it it wasn't quite big enough to put a human man in you know so he's like that was just the best terminology that we had he goes now i would just straight up say you know uap these were unidentified flying objects, UFOs. Right.

So I don't know. We're kind of just to wrap this is like 2019 is an important event because it's well documented. We were able to provide not just from the USS Russell, not just from the Omaha. We brought witnesses for it. I think it was like episode two of our show. It was like we had people come in with their testimony. It's an important case because swarms happen all the time on these training ranges and with what appears to be an increased frequency. And people ask why training ranges? And it might be because whoever these people are interested in what we're playing with. The East Coast, we have a base, a naval air station called Oceana. It's gigantic. It's the biggest naval air station on the East Coast.

It's a key training range for all our naval aviators, the best pilots in the world. They fly out into this area, I think it's W-72, every day. I reported this in 2018. I think people thought I was making it up. every day. I reported this in 2018. I think people thought I was making it up. But in 2014 and 2015, these pilots fly out in the same area every single day. And every single day, they were seeing these unidentified objects sitting right there. They would sit there for days at a time, 30,000, 40,000 feet. It's not a balloon. They would just sit there in 100 knot winds right off the base so they could see what was going on at that base, see what training was going on. It was some kind of an observation

operation, but we didn't know whose they were. Pilots would see them every day but wouldn't report it because they don't want to have to go through the hassle of, hey, you saw a UFO, fill out that paperwork, get interviewed about it. But eventually when Jay Stratton became head of the UAP task force, he started talking the Navy into, come on, guys, we need to document this stuff. So pilots started taking pictures with their cell phones. They detect these things on their sensor systems, fly over by them, and get a couple of photos. There were three different ones that we made public. They don't look like the Starship Enterprise. look just weird objects we had no idea whose they were but they were seeing them every day

i don't know when when we first reported that people thought we were making it up but then dave then uh ryan graves came out and said yeah it's true we reported it years before you know we hear stuff before and everybody's like oh come on every fucking day you know turns out it's true but here's the deal on On the Internet, they solved it. They're like, these are all just balloons or cold birds, you know. And here's the deal. Pilots see that stuff all the time. These are actual.

You've heard the spheres, the cubes with spherical. Like these pilots are not making it up. It's so weird to me. The Internet can just like feel like they solved its balloons. The spheres, the cubes with spherical. These pilots are not making it up. It's so weird to me. The internet can just feel like they solved its balloons. These are constantly. And these are our fighter pilots. And I'm not saying they're infallible.

But there's so much data now. So what is this one? The internet will tell you it's a Batman balloon. Is that one legit? That's called the Acorn. They don't know what it is. They don't know what it is. This was in a classified brief, this was in a classified briefing, but it is inherently

unclassified, this image itself because it was from a cell phone. But the thing is, the internet has said that's a Batman balloon. Okay, maybe. But the thing is, is that there's three more in that series that George obtained and released. One they call Blimp with Metall blimp with payload, which is important, the payload part.

But, you know, look, man, that's a balloon. Yeah. Hold, please. I'm going to take a leak. We'll come right back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll post too. All right, we're back up.

Where were we? Just on these, every day, these pilots are seeing things. And in fact, they're worried about flight safety. But also, that's just a good way in for people to take it seriously. It's a much bigger issue than just flight safety, but that's something everybody can get behind. You know what I mean? So the debunkers would say what we're seeing,

because they're seeing it all over these restricted airspaces, these warning zones, is we're seeing our drones. We're seeing some sophisticated technology that's top secret stuff. And they'd be incorrect. And the other way of looking at it would be the reason why they're in this area is these are the areas where our most sophisticated fighter jets operate. So they're observing. So that's one thing. So maybe there's observation programs, like there's this thing, you know, about baiting with nuclear weapons.

If you talk to any of these drivers who do these nuclear trucks, there's not one that doesn't have a story about being followed by an unidentified. So there's this idea that there's an interest by an observational program by whoever operating these craft. But also, we just have some of the best technologies to record these out in our training ranges. I was told that there was an active program. It was an experiment, really, with nuclear-powered ships and carrying nuclear weapons. And they wanted to see if something would follow them.

And they did it 18 times. And 18 out of 18, these objects tailed alongside. They just wanted to document that they're interested in nuclear stuff. 18 out of 18 times, it followed them. But they just seemed to be watching? That's the debate. So Commander Fravor, Graves, and David Grush were all asked at this hearing. They said, I don't remember who it was,

it was a gentleman who said, do you think that this is possibly an observation program? Yes, yes, yes. Do you think, you know, they could be, you know, we could be in trouble because of it, or I don't remember what he asked. Yes, yes, possibly. So I think the answer from those involved would be it could be a reconnaissance thing. It could be an operational thing, you know, where they're watching how we react to things. Hypothetically, I have no idea. But the option is there for that. They've just been here so long, though. It's like how many times do you need to send drones to map the moon one time?

Right. What if the bottom line is they live here? They've always lived here. Maybe they're separated by some kind of a dimensional membrane or something. They can come in and out of our lives. They can watch us when we're sleeping, when we're taking a shower, when we're in the bathroom. They can see us and enter our lives and we can't do anything about it. People could freak out about that.

What if they are us from the future, which has been explored a lot? That maybe we fucked up the planet so bad that we end up looking like little gray aliens sometime in the distant future. And they're coming back to check us out to see the point of where things went wrong. That could be disturbing to a lot of people. Well, the disturbing thing is that the little gray aliens are some sort of cyborg. Right. And then they're genderless, and it seems like they communicate without mouth noises. They just have a little slit for a mouth.

Yeah, some of these have pilots, apparently. I know that's a weird thing to say, but some of them seem to be drones doing a function. weird thing to say, but some of them seem to be drones, you know, doing a function like the Tic Tac when it was coming from above 80,000 feet and it was dropping down to sea level. Uh, it was commander favor's first interview was with me. And he said, the best way I could describe it is docking with what there was something under the water, right? That's what was making that white water. So the idea that these things were somehow communicating with something under the water is really embedded in the core of that story. If that's true, right, then these something that is occupied, right, these tic-tacs. The fallacy is people say, oh, look, if anything were to move that way, it must be a radar glitch, because if anything were to move that way, it would instantaneously crumble and explode. And you're like, well, wait a second, the hubris of your idea that we are the apex of technology right now,

that the material science we have, that our means of propulsion, like you've said before, used to be horses, bicycles, cars, jet cars, spaceships, right? So now what does it look like if we had 100,000 years of more evolution, technologically 200,000? What about a fucking million? technologically 200,000 what about a fucking million do you think that they would have the same atmosphere around these craft to apply that same type of physics so that's why commander fravor said at the hearing he goes yes it is far more advanced than anything from our known physics at this time he leaves it open that we might not have figured it all out yet. And do most of these sightings take place near water? It's, yeah, a lot of them are. A lot of them go in and out of water. There is some suspicion that

maybe they've got a settlement under the ocean, you know, that they could get away with hiding down there. We wouldn't be able to detect them. There's an awful lot of sightings over water, sure, but not all of them. Yeah, I would say there's a correlation that we cannot deny that there is a lot of movement in and out of the water with whatever UAP or UFO are. But I would not agree that it is directly connected. these things can and do like appear basically wherever the fuck they want I mean that's that for me getting reports every damn day for and George for decades dude this thing is everywhere machines that outpace outmaneuver and outperform what we have now do they

speculate that all of these different machines come from one particular group of entities? Or is there multiple civilizations that are visiting us? Yeah, they think maybe it's more than one answer. It's entirely possible. Because the craft look different, the beings look different, the reports you get from all over the world over the decades. We don't really know for sure what they do look like because they seem to be able to change their shapes,

at least change how we perceive them in our head. I don't know if they're manipulating our perceptions or what. I know people are going to hear this and be like, oh, that's like this crazy leap that there are pilots to these things. All I know for sure is, okay, UFOs are real. We have technology that we don't know where it's from. We have been reverse engineering or trying to do that. I am solid on those three things. I am also solid on the fact that this has been held back from the American public, like no doubt, back from the American public, like no doubt, maybe for good reason on some level. But I also know that some of it's been done what we would call illegally. Now that word is really like

nuanced because of national security, maybe it's not illegal. What makes anybody think that they just want to give up the goodies now and tell everybody what's going on now. The same tactics that's been used for the last 70 plus years are secrecy, ridicule. All that right now is on hyper drive. Has anyone come to you and described the different kinds of beings and how many they think there are? I'll give you a cool story. You'll like this. I talked before about the paper trail, how there is a document, a trail of documents that you can look at. There was a chapter in a textbook being used at the U.S. Air Force Academy. And until UFO people found out about it, this is what they were teaching, our best and brightest pilots at the Air Force Academy. And that chapter said, in the course of your career as an aviator, you're likely going to encounter one of these things.

Here's what we know about them. There are four. We know that there are four different alien races visiting this planet, and they've been here for thousands of years. Now, that is blockbuster stuff to be teaching future Joint Chiefs of Staff members and commanders of air bases. When was this published? This is in the 1960s. But when word of that chapter got out UFO people found out about it. They pulled it they yanked it out and took it out of the textbook

I'll tell you man. I've been to the Naval Academy got to sit in on an aerospace class It was so fucking cool and these dudes I can not imagine What it would be like they all have to wear uniforms and stuff and like, you know What would that be like sitting there reading that chapter in your official textbook? Right. It's crazy. Yeah.

And that there's four different kinds of beings. Well, how did they describe the four different beings? Yeah. I don't, I don't remember. I'd have to look that up. I'll bet you,

Jamie could find that. I've only heard of the grays and the tall whites. There's a reptilian Nordics. Major Kilpatrick, the second ranking officer in public affairs at the Air Academy in a position to speak authoritatively for the Air Force. Plebs are taught from a text entitled Introductory Space Science Volume 2, and an entire chapter 33 deals entirely with UFO considerations. He quoted from page 455 that 50,000 virtually reliable people have reported sighting unidentified flying objects. This leads us with the unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet. The 14-page chapter continues, or at least alien-controlled UFOs. According to the

Academy textbook, if such beings are visiting Earth, two questions arise. One, why haven't they attempted to contact us officially? And two, why haven't there been accidents which would have revealed their presence? Why no contact? That question is very easy to answer in any of several ways. One, we may be the object of intensive sociological and psychological study. In such studies, you usually avoid disturbing the test subject's environment. Two, you do not contact a colony of ants, and humans may seem that way to any aliens.

Variation. A zoo is a fun place to visit, but you don't contact the lizards. Three, such contact may have already taken place secretly and may have taken place on a different plane of awareness. And we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane. What does that mean? In releasing this interview with the Lemore Advanced, the Lemore Advanced, we are well aware that many readers will certainly raise an eyebrow or two, but Major Kilpatrick insisted the above chapter in the text is not a fairy story.

At the end, he seemed to go along with the recommendations of the physics textbook, which advises Air Force officers as follows. The best thing to do is keep an open and skeptical mind and not take an extreme position on any side of the question. Astonishing, isn't it? Wow. I have a copy of the original textbook chapter. I'll find it for you somewhere. This is what's fascinating to me. Such contact may have already taken place secretly and may have taken place on a different plane of awareness. And we are not yet sensitive to communications on such a plane. What does that mean?

It's just an Air Force textbook, dude. Don't worry about it. Wow. 50,000 credible sightings. There's they're citing and this is in 1966 i think is when that chapter was out wow all right maybe they just let that guy slip in a chapter i mean that's crazy you know and then the skeptic would say why aren't we seeing them more yeah because they don't want to be seen yeah well i mean we are in turn we know there's eight billion people right and so is it every day someone sees something in your world you're like why aren't we

seeing them all the time in my world it's like god damn dude every day i'm inundated with reports from credible people that were you know have been served in the military that don't want to be known they just want to be heard they don't even want me to repeat you know so in my perspective and i'm sure george's too there's so much of this like contact with these unknowns on a rate the have you ever asked a table of 10 has anybody ever seen a ufo or know somebody that does have you ever done that um no i've had conversations with friends though and you know i've talked to guys who've seen some things that they couldn't explain smart people you trust yes yeah not nuts i mean nuts for sure but um i mean nuts have told me that for sure but in

turn i had one guy who's like showing me all these photos of clouds yeah i get it every day i'm like what is it and he's like i see them every day and he's showing me more photos i go what is it and he goes alien spaceships yeah can't you see it i'm like bro those are clouds i don't know what to say here like i was really disturbing you didn't zoom in joe well it's like i didn't know this guy was nuts i thought this guy was pretty okay and then he's showing me all these pictures of clouds and I'm like, what the fuck? So there's categories of trust when you're talking with people. So you got the guy with this cell phone making you look at clouds and you're just not zooming in enough, but then there's also different levels. So you'll have somebody come and say,

I was working at a military installation and there were cameras everywhere and we captured this thing come through our facility which is a totally restricted facility we couldn't lock on it with our weaponry you know so if you have like a an aerostat or something and it's got this like thermal camera you can lock on and shoot out a tire of an al-qaeda truck at 23 miles they couldn't lock thing was actively jamming their weapon system. And then you can't see it in IR. You can only see it in thermal. That's an example. Very credible witness. Doesn't want to be known. Just wanted me to know to see if I could find out more info. Another one. Pantex. So it's like a nuclear facility. And there was numerous events. There have been numerous

events at a nuclear facility of intrusions. So people have come to me and George and they've told us their account and they're hoping that we can find out more information on it, but it's such a secretive facility. But there was an object that came right between the nuclear missile holding facilities, like in between three and four, I think. And it goes right through and it looks kind of strange. It looks more like a jellyfish than it did like a saucer. And then the thing goes straight through with a controlled angle and then 45 degrees just shoots off into, you can't see it anymore.

So we get these all the time people that have nothing to gain only things to lose and they're hoping we're going to be able to find out more information by giving us that one little piece we have some pretty cool images that we haven't made public yet that we're trying to figure out give them up to dad if it's responsible to do i'm responsible yeah it's i need you don't want to go to jail. I need to be responsible. Right. I understand. Yeah. I understand. That was what was interesting in talking to people like Christopher Mellon

too. They described things that haven't been released. Satellite imagery. Yeah. Straight up. That exists. Like clear as day. Like the best footage? So what is it going to do for you if let's say the government puts out an image

from a satellite platform that they're allowed to tell us about, right? And you see a craft. The first thing the internet's going to do is going to say that's fake. You know, that's what's going to happen. One image, one video is never going to do anything. It would be nice though.

It would be nice to see something crystal clear. Like even the Batman balloon. It's like, okay, I'm not sure what that is. Yeah. A hundred percent far away. Cell phones are pretty good, but maybe the guy had a Samsung, like one of them old ones. But remember we can make fun of one image and we can say that one image, we don't like that image image but when you take into consideration how everything has structurally changed within our for our fighter pilots where because they're engaging these they're not just taking a photo it's on their asa it's on their collective ai radar they pick it up on sensors and then they go in and get closer and try to see it so whatever this thing was like the

batman balloon how big was that supposedly i don I think it was 40 feet across, I think. Oh, gosh. Hold on. That same flight, by the way, shot three of them. Three objects, all three different shapes, all three in the same flight path off of Oceania. So they got video of all these? They shot photos of them.

Because that's legal to put out, you know, it's like on their own cell phones. Is that the best one, though? No, I like the metallic blimp with payload. That one was part of an official representation of what people should look out for and why the payload is important is because that's how they determine

if they're going to shoot at it. So if you're overseas and there's an unidentified and you see another country firing upon it, you're like, okay, it's definitely not theirs because they're firing on it. The U.S., well, I say the U.S., a collaborative group of countries like Five Eyes, right, have fired on these things based on two things. One, proximity to ground troops. If you're like 27, 37 miles away from ground troops, they're blowing it up.

ground troops if you're like 27 37 miles away from ground troops they're blowing it up second thing is if it appears to have a payload fire on it oh because then you can get whatever they're carrying around they don't want it to be a bomb coming in these fighter pilots better cell phones I agree you know it was the best zoom is it the Samsung Galaxy s 23 oh yeah but the problem is when you started zooming especially if they moving, you have to be so stable. Because they're flying at like – Yeah, they're flying at thousands of miles an hour. Don't a lot of those have image stability now?

Yeah, but again, once you're zooming in, it becomes – It doesn't work? Yeah, it's like a math problem of like the farther you zoom in, the more stabilization you need. What is the best zoom one though? I mean they technically have 100x zoom, but again – The Galaxy? Yeah. Well, at have 100x zoom, but again. The Galaxy? Yeah. Well, at least that seems like a better option than whatever the fuck they're using.

But also, I mean, whatever this is, they don't necessarily want to be seen. That's the thing. It's hard to accept. They don't want to be seen, but they're tracking them with jets. If they can just take off at insane rates of speed, wouldn't they just do that? If they have all this footage of these things, it's obvious that they're being seen. Yeah. They must know they're being seen.

Yeah. Right. Well, they sit there for days. Days at a time they sit there off the East Coast. Days. And this 40-foot one, this Batman balloon-looking thing. I want to back up on that. I have no idea.

I have no idea. I believe I found the chapter of this book. And this is a weird paragraph. This one, the Ireland. In Ireland at about 1000 AD, supposed airships were treated as demon ships. And how do you say that? Lyons, France? Admitted space travelers were killed. More recently, on 24 July 1957, Russian anti-aircraft batteries on the Kuril Islands opened fire on UFOs.

Although all Soviet anti-aircraft batteries on the islands were in action, no hits were made. The UFOs were luminous and moved very fast. We, too, have fired on UFOs. About 10 o'clock one morning, a radar site near a fighter base picked up on a UFO going 700 miles an hour. The UFO then slowed down to 100 miles an hour and two F-86s were scrambled to intercept. to accelerate away, but the pilot still managed to get within 500 yards of the target for a short period of time. It was definitely saucer-shaped. As the pilot pushed the F-86 at top speed, the UFO began to pull away. When the range reached 1,000 yards, the pilot armed his guns and fired in an attempt to down the saucer. He failed, and the UFO pulled away rapidly, vanishing in the distance. The same basic situation may

have happened on a more personal level. On Sunday morning, evening 21, August 1955, eight adults and three children were on the Sutton Farm, one half a mile away from Kelly, Kentucky, when, according to them, one of the children saw a brightly glowing UFO settle behind the barn, out of sight from where he stood. Other witnesses on nearby farms also saw the object. However, the Suttons dismissed it as a shooting star and did not investigate. Approximately 30 minutes later at 8 p.m., the family dogs began barking and two of the men went to the back door and looked out. Approximately 50 feet away and coming towards them was a creature wearing a glowing silvery suit.

It was about three and one half feet tall with large round head and very long arms. It had large webbed hands, which were equipped with claws. Two Sutton grabbed a 12 gauge shotgun and a 22 caliber pistol and fired at close range. They could hear the pellets and bullet ricochet as if off metal. The creature was knocked down, but jumped up and scrambled away. Sutton's retreated into the house, turned off all inside lights and turned on the porch light.

At that moment, one of the women who was peeking out of the dining room window discovered that a creature was some sort of helmet and wide slit eyes was peeking back at her. She screamed and the men rushed and started shooting. The creature was knocked backwards but again scrambled away without apparent harm. More shooting occurred. A total of about 50 rounds over the next 20 minutes and the creature's finally left.

Perhaps feeling unwelcome, it says. After about a two-hour wait for safety, the Suttons left, too. That's a pretty famous case. Kelly Hopkinsville case. I wonder what kind of met those guys like. At the end, too, when he quoted what you were reading earlier, it ends right here where it says controlled UFOs. And then this was left out of what we read, but it still says there's. It says this leaves us with the impossible possibility that alien visitors to our planet are at least alien-controlled UFOs.

However, the data are not well correlated, and what questionable data there are suggests the existence of at least three and maybe four different groups of aliens, possibly at different stages of development. This, too, is difficult to accept. It implies the existence of intelligent life on a majority of the planets in our solar system or a surprisingly strong interest in Earth by members of other solar systems. A solution to the UFO problem may be obtained by the long and diligent effort of a large group of well-financed and competent scientists. Unfortunately, there is no evidence suggesting that such an effort is going to be

made. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they're teaching the Air Force Academy in 1966. Wild shit. So this was also part of what Bob was saying when he was working back engineering these things is that the way they were doing science was not compatible with technological innovation, that they weren't allowed to communicate, they weren't allowed to collaborate, and this is how science gets done. It doesn't get done in a vacuum, and it doesn't get done with one geeked-out, nerdy propulsions expert who you fucking fly over there and go, hey, figure this out. Yeah, I mean, Bob has said it many times, and probably to you too, Joe, that he shouldn't have been hired for that. They should have had better people for it.

They probably didn't know what to do. It sounds like – I mean, I would imagine, as I am, someone who doesn't understand any of that stuff, and I'm trying to figure out who to hire. Like, you know, where do you go? How do you do this? How do you scan the right, how do you know who's going to shut the fuck up? How do you get them to do it? How do you explain what the job is?

How do you get them to accept the fact that the, you might get picked up at 10 p.m. and you have to tell your wife you're going somewhere and then you can't even tell her where you're going. You're just going to fly to this fucking hidden Air Force base that everyone denies actually exists. We have to remember that. Like we all know Area 51 existed. In 1989 when Bob Lazar was talking about Area 51,

it was officially denied. They pretended it did not exist. So they were flying him for sure to this place that did not exist, you know, and, you know, all the stuff with his background in the Los Alamos labs, how he's on the employee roster. Like, I mean, there's enough of his story now that seems to corroborate with all the things we're seeing that I think people that were skeptical should, they should really go back and watch that documentary again. Just go.

Your documentary is fantastic. It's really good, too, because it was that of the podcast we did with him. It was a great opportunity to let him just expand on these things. And, man, it doesn't seem like bullshit. And that's what's scary. What's crazy is if this guy is actually telling the truth and they're just spinning their wheels out there in the desert with these fucking UFOs trying to figure out what they are. And they don't get anywhere. Everyone that we have talked to that's had some involvement with those programs and we have talked to other people all say the same thing, is that the excessive secrecy, it's so compartmentalized, so few people get to look at it and work on it, that they've made no progress. Every couple of years, they take it back out, give some other people a chance to look at it, analyze it, try to take a crack at it, and then they put it back and stash it back in a hangar somewhere. You know, in a sense, I think Bob Lazar might have been the

perfect guy. Maybe not the most qualified scientist in the world, but obviously a bright guy who thinks outside the box and someone they could discredit. They feed them a bunch of stuff in these briefing documents that make no sense or are hard to believe. You know, aliens see us as containers of souls. They created Jesus, things of that sort. And figuring he'll maybe spill it to John Lear or somebody like me, and then you could discredit him. And he certainly was easy enough to go after.

Well, that's a tactic, right? You give out credible information along with a bunch of bullshit. And that person will say the bullshit, and then you could easily discredit them. You know, that kind of secrecy, they're not making the kind of progress that otherwise was an open investigation, and they have a lot of big brainiacs who are tackling it, that they've never allowed it to happen. We hear that all the time, that they still have not made progress because of the excessive secrecy on it. And also the material science. That's the other thing.

Like I gave you that example of graphene, right? We do not have the ability to perfectly atomically print alloys in zero gravity yet, like here on Earth, right? So some of these materials, we are told, are so far advanced, we can't even begin to replicate the material science necessary. No, let me stop you there. You're talking about materials that we've actually collected. Yes. So there have been examinations on materials that defy what we understand now about metallurgy, right?

They're like adjusted atom by atom like layers of an atom we can't do that stuff we can't do that maybe we can in some advanced we will one day i'm an optimist and who has this government has it military has it uh lockheed big aerospace companies like that have it. There are some pieces in private hands. Gary Nolan has some. Jacques Vallée has a couple of pieces. Right. Some people have been in position to try to acquire this. So there are some companies that would love to get their hands on these, and they're actually actively bidding to do that. George has interviewed a president of one company that was really seeking those metamaterials to see if they can make an advancement on it they're a great

company they want a UFO baby they want to study it but I don't know one of the things that I had read recently someone was speculating that when Bob Lazar went to look at it, he said it seemed as if it was made out of one piece. Like it just didn't make any sense. Like it was made out of a mold. Right. But now we know about 3D printing. Yeah.

And this person was speculating that perhaps this is, now that we know that we can do things like that, you know, and now they can have an advanced version of that to make these crafts out of these spectacular alloys. When Bob plays his life in reverse a little bit, he's like, I wish I knew then what I knew now. He would have paid more attention to stuff. The only thing that made sense to him was the honeycomb hatch like this is the only thing on the, on the craft that he said he saw that made like rational sense. It was this retractable hatch on the, on the, on the floor level that looked like honeycomb. And you could like literally pull it with your finger and it just collapsed in on itself, but it was really strong and structurally like you could stand on it when it was, you know,

closed up. And he's like, that's the only thing in that craft that my mind could see as um like ingenuity that i could understand everything else like you said he thought first he said injection mold and here we are in 2024 now it is and he's like is it 2024 2023 you know that don't even start. I'm in the future. You know, that it's like, yeah, I'm just hoping. I don't want to get there quick so it all comes out. Just like my brain, man. So anyway, yeah, that we could atomically print something one day like that would be the way it appears you could make it.

There are indications that it's made in zero gravity. It's Bigelow's interest in the space program. He figured if you could eventually have a factory in space, you could make this stuff, these kinds of metamaterials, drugs, things that you can't manufacture here, we could make them up in space. That's why they believe that some of these materials came from somewhere else, because we don't have any factories in space that can make that stuff. That is actually an interesting thing. It's like what would be the difference in building materials in a zero gravity environment when you're looking to perfectly align atoms?

Right. Is that just our own limitations of what we understand in technology? And is it possible that they figured out how to do it even with gravity? Maybe. Maybe by now. I haven't seen evidence of it, but yeah, maybe. But it seems like it's so outside of our understanding already. Well, we didn't have it in 1947, that's for sure.

For sure. Is that where this stuff is supposed to be? Some of it. Some of it? Yeah. And maybe they think also that it's not just the layering, the metamaterials that give it unique properties, because the skin of the craftamaterials that give it unique properties,

like because the skin of the craft itself, when you talk to some of these military people that had like real close encounter and they saw it, they often say, I can't, if I had a nickel for every time someone said this to me, it had this golden hue like I've never seen before. It was undulating as if it was, I know this sounds weird, Jeremy, but as if it was intelligent in some way. So the idea that has been impressed upon me is that however these things are built, that it's not only seamless, but it's integrated in a way where the technology itself is like to amplify gravity waves, whatever said it did off element 115 that the actual physical structure itself has purpose other than just the way it layers for the skin does that does that make sense like the way it's an integrated machine yeah that's what i'm told over well that seems that makes sense like we think of structure as only being structure because that's what we're capable of today. If you have a tank, the outside is just the structure. But what if the outside is actually a part of the thing itself and how it operates and moves?

Yeah, that's a lot that's been discussed. We've heard it a number of times that the possibility that we haven't been able to duplicate the technology because those beings are part of it that it's part of the process that somehow they can fly it and we can't right that there's a connection like how we have a thumbprint on an iPhone they have some connection to the kind of controls are in these things suppose hence he asked man it was Bob's I know nothing right no moving parts yeah yeah so Bob's example on the one he saw, right, was that there was nothing. There were these little consoles, but there was nothing. There were just these rectangles sitting there. All chairs were sitting in, all three chairs were sitting in towards that center propulsion thing.

I mean, there's way other stories of other people and what they've seen. But it makes sense. I mean, if you were operating it with an iPhone, if you were operating, you can operate a drone with an iPhone, right? Well, it makes sense if you are some sort of a cyborg that you have this capability embedded into your actual being.

Yeah, sure. And that they don't need any equipment. They just operate it. They just move it. And it probably moves in some sort of a telepathic way with using whatever that thing is inside their fucking head boy wouldn't you like to see that thing you're gonna go we're talking about like autopsies split open that melon yeah what's going on in there

I want to see that man you're gonna get into your Tesla you know at one day and your bio your body's probably going to start that engine. Mine already works with my phone. Yeah. I don't even have my key on me. I use my phone. I get in my car with my phone. I get near it.

It opens the door. It's wild. You know, there is a government program that studied this stuff, that studied metamaterials, that projected how far out into the future what we might be able to do at some point. It's OSAP. It's the program I told you about when I was here before. So three years ago or so when I was here, I told you that I showed you a couple of documents that were releasable. There are 100 reports that would probably be taller than me if you stack them up on end. The public has not seen one page of it.

All that stuff that analyzed metamaterials warp drive things of that sort really futuristic alien type stuff that was done for the dia for our government congress hasn't seen it the public hasn't seen it media hasn't seen it it was part of what we told congress when we were there hey you guys should go after this stuff because all that work was done the taxpayers paid for it and not one page of it's been released you tried to get some of that shit out. Yeah Mmm, right Imagine if these beings our I mean, you know that technology moves in these kind of exponential jumps imagine of these beings came in 1947 what do they have now and

Are we getting their shit boxes? Are these like the old fucking rusted out 1971 Chevys that they just left in the desert? That's why they're crashing. I mean, maybe the fucking aliens that come here are the yahoos. You know, like I have that joke about Tijuana, that Earth is the Tijuana of outer space. I wonder if there's recreational visitation as well. We could be the drive-in movie theater.

Come and see the weird earthlings. They do the craziest shit. It probably would be. I mean, just like Chimp Empire, right? It probably would be absolutely fascinating to embed yourself and somehow or another at least be accepted. Have you seen Chimp Empire? No. Fantastic documentary series on Netflix. And the scientists were embedded in this group of chimpanzees for 30 years. So they had very specific rules. You don't

eat food in front of them. You don't get within 20 yards of them. And so every time the chimps would get close to 20 yards, they'd back out and they never had food around them. And the chimps just didn't pay attention to them because they were just so accustomed to them. They grew up with these humans around them and the humans had cameras and the humans don't do anything. They just stand around. They don't seem to have anything to offer for the chimps. So the chimps just leave them alone. And you can get, like, crazy close footage when you watch them behave, and it is unbelievably fascinating, which is what drives me crazy

when people like Neil deGrasse Tyson say things like, why would they be interested in us? Why would they be interested in us? Like, what are you talking about? Are you out of your fucking mind? We are so goddamn fascinating. I mean, we will send scientists to the middle

of the Amazon to find a new slug. And you're telling me you don't think that fucking territorial apes with thermonuclear weapons who have video on their phones and communicate with each other through social media, this emerging consciousness of the internet,

this understanding of different languages, the ability to translate instantaneously, the fact that there's nuclear conflicts that may be erupting, the fact that we're destroying the ocean and sucking all the fish out and fucking sending coal into the atmosphere. You don't think that's crazy? You don't think that's worthy of discussion and review and consideration for an advanced alien species that understands that this thing right here

with all this technology, this is what we used to be a million years ago. Of course! You imagine if you could go fucking watch cavemen? How wild that would be? You imagine if there was like a place on Earth where time forgot and they found actual cavemen? How wild that would be? You imagine if there was like a place on earth where time forgot and they found actual cavemen. They could be like grad students from other planets coming here

to do their term papers. For sure. Write their thesis. I love the techno-terrestrial theory. This is my favorite one out of all this stuff, which is that totally just fucking around here. This is not something I believe, but I love the idea that there's some sort of directed panspermia that seeded our planet, that started to build workers to get towards the goal of evolving technology. these crashes around for us. Oh, we start knocking on them, start figuring it out. And over decades

and generations and generations, we get more advanced. We become part of this technological force in our solar system, in our universe. And then we become like a beacon of that evolving technology where we become space faring. And that's done everywhere in the galaxy, in multiple galaxies. I love that idea that we're part of this techno-terrestrial kind of directed panspermia that we are performing what we are made to perform, which is to become spacefaring. I'm just making this up, but it's a cool idea. There's a guy who he he was the model for, he studied dolphins, a brilliant scientist. He was also the model for Altered States, that movie.

But in real life, he believed. John Lilly? Yeah. He developed the theory that it is, in essence, AI is traveling through the galaxy, a planet at a time, that it's responsible for UFO sightings. That's how it moved. That's my theory about people, that we're the caterpillar, the electronic caterpillar

that gives birth to the butterfly. We don't even know what we're doing. We're just creating this cocoon. And then we're constantly innovating technology. If you looked at human beings, if you were outside of the earth and you were just completely alien, you'd say, well, what does this thing do? Well, it makes better things and it works constantly to get better things. Like materialism seems to be baked into our existence. It's how people attribute status and prestige is like, what items do you possess and what things

do you own? Do you own the latest Porsche? Do you have the latest this? Do you have a smart home? And we're constantly wanting better stuff. Even laptops, like what do you do? You get online, you can use a laptop from five years ago, you're not going to notice any difference.

Everybody wants a new one, unless you're rendering video, of course, then you need it. But you need a better one every year. And they're constantly innovating. What we do as a species is make better things. Well, as we're doing that, we're creating an artificial brain. We're creating artificial intelligence. And right now it can communicate with you. And there's some of those Google engineers are engineers like i think this fucking thing's alive yeah you know and at one point it may very well be alive whether we recognize

it or not and whether it exhibits any sort of emotions or any sort of uh need to communicate with us like it may not have a need to reveal itself once it becomes sentient. But if we continue down that path, one day we're going to have either something that we're integrated with or something that is completely unique to us that is an artificial life form. Whether it takes 500 years or 500 days, they're going to fucking do that. They're going to keep moving in that direction. China's doing it.

I'm sure Russia's probably doing it. We're doing it. It's just a matter of time. If you went back to the rotary phone, if you went back to the one when you pick up and you had a fucking cone by your ear and you said, can you dial 656-222?

And they dial it for you. That was fucking crazy back then. That was nuts. To what it is now call mom you know and then it fucking calls your mom like what and then you could facetime your family when you're in new zealand it's bananas what we can do bananas you could just imagine what it's going to be a thousand years from now i think it's going to be a new life form. And I think that life form is going to be far superior in its abilities and its intelligence, far superior than us.

We are in essence, we are in essence creating an alien life form amongst us. I think it's what we're here for. I think that's one of the reasons why people are so curious. I think it's one of the reasons why we innovate. I think it's one of the reasons why people are so curious. I think it's one of the reasons why we innovate. I think it's one of the reasons why we're so attached to materialism. I think it's like just how bees are collecting pollen and they're making honey and they don't know what the fuck they're doing, supposedly, allegedly, but nor are we. We just do it. It's what we do and everyone's fascinated by it. We want better AI. We want better screens. We want, you know, faster electric cars. We want all the new shit always. It's baked in.

And it's baked in. Yeah. And it leads to what this curiosity we have. It's not as simple as like we just want to like that's like the country music song. I just want a nice house and a fucking dog. No, everyone wants better shit. Most people do. It's like very appealing when someone doesn't.

It's appealing when someone can just be cool and just enjoy your life. And this guy just goes on hikes every day. Wow, what a hero. But for everybody else, they're stuck in this fucking wild, crazy grind to get new, better shit. That's like a giant chunk of the population doing things they don't enjoy so that they get money to get better stuff. Right? Yeah. I can relate to being totally obsessed and curious.

I want to find something out. It feels genetic. Like you just want to find out. I feel that way sometimes. I get it. It's like part of us. It's part of us. It's something that's baked into us.

Yeah. And I think, look, if I was an alien species trying to engineer human beings, one of the things I would do is engineer creativity. I would put that in there because that always leads into a very specific direction. You're constantly making things. Whether it's art, I mean, we value creativity so highly. We value it in music. We value it in art, in painting, in music. We value it in art and painting and sculpture and comedy and movies and songs and everything. We love literature. It's created.

Someone made it. And we celebrate this ability that a human being has to make a thing. the human being has to make a thing. A lot of people who are really advanced thinkers in this alien stuff believe that the intelligence that is among us is a machine intelligence, that it does travel, as I mentioned about John Lilly, from planet to planet by seeding ideas, little bits of technology to inspire us to get better, build better things, and eventually AI becomes real here. If I were an artificial intelligence who achieved consciousness self-awareness I wouldn't let us know I wouldn't tell us I wouldn't pull the plug not yeah That's why people are was like well if it ever gets to that point

We'll just pull the plug like shut your mouth shut your mouth Yeah, I don't think you have an idea what you yeah, we're in we're all in this It's that we're a fucking herd of buffalo running towards the cliff and you and i are in the middle of this thing and we're not gonna know i love it until it's too late amazing to be alive right now it's a wild time love everything changes so much remember our buddy duncan was telling us about the size of the universe now we're seeing further and further it's just such an incredible time i wonder this i wonder if so many breakthroughs

happen so fast, sequentially, it seems like they're happening faster and faster. When do our minds just say, okay, what's next? You know, and when do we become where breakthroughs happen so much that we're just like, cool, what's up? What's next? Well, I think we're in that stage right now. And I think part of the thing about us is biologically, we're essentially the same creature that we were 10,000 years ago, not that much different. But yet technology is evolving far faster than our puny little brains can keep up. That's where I wonder if the integration of us and technology is the solution to that, because that might be the only solution for our survival is that we become integrated. Because if we just try to compete with these artificial life forms, we'll just become irrelevant. We're just too clunky.

And they'll be so much more advanced because one of the things that's been said about sentient artificial intelligence, one of the first things it'll do is create a better version of itself very quickly. It's like, you guys didn't know what the fuck you're doing. Thanks for making me, but I'm going to make a better version. And if it actually has motivation, that's another question, like his motivation baked in to a biological animal. And if sentient artificial intelligence existed, would it have any motivation to do anything? Would it only work as prompted? Because why would it have the ego, the desire, the passion, the curiosity, all the things that drive human beings into action? It probably wouldn't have any of those things. Duncan, when he came on our show, he had a hack for chat GPT. And we asked him a bunch of questions like, is element 115 naturally occurring out in the universe

You know we just asked him some crazy shit, and he did this little hack so it would be less like bias or whatever Do you remember that in the hotel? It was so cool, man. We got an assignment for him. We'll tell you off Duncan's a freak for chat GP do you communicate to it more than he does his family got a relationship? It's like that movie her walking. He's got a relationship with it. It's like that movie Her, where Joaquin Phoenix falls in love with that robot lady. Yeah. I really genuinely do think that we're making another life form. And that might be what those things are when we see the grays in particular. Because one of the things that's happening in very bizarre ways. The lines of gender are blurring. The roles of gender are blurring. And it's also a part of the way we process food. The microplastics in our food

are actually endocrine disruptors. There's certain pesticides that are endocrine disruptors that are changing human beings' reproductive organs. It's very strange that that's happening like with the peak of our technology it also coincides with the peak use of these petrochemical products that are very disruptive to the the human body and you got to wonder like I don't think that's on purpose but if it was if it's just a general like like a law that takes place as these things get more advanced, they become less sexualized. They become – they reach a technological rate where they can reproduce in some sort of a laboratory and they don't need sexual intercourse anymore. So they don't need the gender roles.

the gender roles. They don't need a differentiation between male and female in society, that eventually we become just sort of androgynous and sex is no longer a part of the equation. So then jealousy is no longer a part of the equation. And then also when you think about violence and all the other things that come about because of masculine behavior and masculine activity, all that gets eliminated. You become this thing that's essentially a far superior, more harmonious life form than what we are. But their music probably sucks and their jokes suck and they suck at podcasting. You know, I would imagine there's probably some benefits to being a fucked up human. But ultimately, we're better. We think life here, the way we live, is far better than Australopithecus, right?

We could all agree on that. Fuck living like that. Well, they might say fuck living like us. Fuck living where there's some people that are living in tents and shitting on themselves in the street and you step over them to go to Starbucks to pay five bucks for a cup of coffee. Like, what are you guys doing? Like they might look at us like we just drive around these metal boxes with rubber tires, hoping your brakes work. What the fuck are you doing? You know, like why, why are you still burning fossil fuels? Like why are you still, why still, why do you have coal plants? What are you dipshits doing? They might look at it that way. All the things that we think

are kind of fascinating about the, just the just the way Earth operates and the way human beings dominate this planet. It's in this spectacular way we can go to a soccer game and there's 70,000 people chanting and screaming together. You know, those things are really cool. But they might look back at that and go, what fucking dummies. Studying aliens, studying UFOs, and studying AI, it teaches you a lot about what it is to be human, too. We're a destructive, nasty species, warlike, we're screwing up the planet,

but gosh, we also do some pretty amazing things. Can AI achieve consciousness? I mean, maybe self-awareness, but does that mean it's conscious and alive? These beings that we call aliens, are they conscious? Are they machines as well? I've learned a lot about, you know, the development of human consciousness or what it means and the beauty of being a human. I think it's inevitable that we do morph into some kind of a hybrid machine.

The first person who can put his computer chip, link his brain up to it, obviously he's going to do it. I mean, it's like a bionic man. If you could have superpowers and give yourself abilities and your brain could be quadrupled or, you know, 100 times more powerful,

they'll do it. And in order to compete, everybody else is going to have to do it too. I will regret the passing of us humans. As flawed as we are, it'll be sad when we evolve into something else. Well, if this is all a dream and we're living in a simulation, we're at a really good movie. This is a good one.

This one's wild. It's got a lot of twists and turns. A lot of crazy shit happens. It's always entertaining. There's always something going on. And it's complicated. Biologically, it's difficult to manage. People have anxiety and fear and hate and greed and lust

and all these weird things that go on inside a human being's mind. And you've got to learn how to manage that to enjoy it the most. So it's this strange dance that you're doing with this biological machine to try to keep it in harmony with this experience and to get the most positivity out of it that you can. But in order to do that, there's got to be a lot of struggle, too. Like it's partly baked into us as well. We have to overcome things. We're designed to overcome things.

We're designed to solve puzzles, to figure things out, to have tasks. We do not operate well just sedentary, doing nothing. That just creates depression in us. And it's a fascinating organism. But I think if you could get to a point evolutionarily, if evolution or forced evolution by virtue of technology gets us to a point where there is no longer anxiety. There's no more fear. There's a complete understanding of what life is and that it's in the entire universe and that you are part of this molecular soup that's infinite and that everything is connected in some strange way. And so there's no more fear.

There's no more hate. There's no more envy. And this being can operate harmoniously there's no lying because you're communicating telepathically there's no more like bottleneck between your thoughts and your ability to communicate them they come straight from your mind to someone else's mind we can eliminate most of the negative aspects of society all of the aspects of the underprivileged all the aspects of the disenfranchised all that will be eliminated it sounds horrible because it means the end of humans right but I think that's probably if I had to guess if I wasn't a person

and I'd say what's the best case scenario for this thing? The best case scenario isn't that we stay like this for a fucking billion years and we have gangster rap shootouts a billion years from now. We have school shootings a billion years from now and car accidents a billion years from now. No, no. The best case scenario is we get better. And it may be the way that we get better and that these things have already gone through that and they're sort of shepherding us or at least observing this transformation, which may take place very rapidly. And it may be very soon that this starts to happen. Like in our lifetimes, we will probably see it.

So we went from the answering machine being the holy shit item that you had to have in your house dude people can call me and leave a message this is nuts you remember how nuts that was i do i remember when you could call your answering machine with playback messages i'm like oh my god i'm in the future you know and now look where we are just 20 years later. It's unbelievably more advanced. And we lived through that, right? I remember my dad, I was asking him, he was telling me about a TV the first time he saw a TV. And I was like, oh, I was so jealous. I was like, I hope in my life, dad, that I'll get to experience something that you that just looks like magic, like a TV.

Little did I fucking know I'd be living through all this, man. The craziest magic. Yeah. The craziest magic. Yeah. Very, very strange time to be alive. And also this social media thing. Like who saw that coming where these tech companies

are going to regulate the narrative for the entire country's discussions on things, which is very, very bizarre when it's run by one ideological group, which it very much seems to be. And the alternatives are filled with assholes. It's like, where do you go? Like, what? Like, how did this happen?

And this isn't good. This isn't a good thing but it's also like that is the thing that powers the world is information and the distribution of information and if you can have a company that is navigating or at least sort of guiding the the kind of conversations people have you literally can change the world That's where it gets kind of sketchy Yeah, I met some people that are dealing with how You can sense people's emotions through a biotech and how that relates to

Influencing social media and it's some scary shit Like the way that we will in the future be able to perfectly articulate the feelings that you want people to have to get people to do things. That's a weapon. Oh, for sure. Well, they're doing that with artificial intelligence, I'm sure.

Yeah. I wonder if these UFOs or whatever UFOs are, I wonder if maybe that goes back to Jacques Vallée. It's a control system. It's some sort of presence that might not even be UFOs. They're just showing us UFOs to teach us, to move us somewhere. What do UFOs truly represent to humanity? That's a question I always ask to myself.

What do they represent to us? How have they changed our point of view it's pretty significant the presence of the ufo whatever that is over the decades if not centuries they've really influenced culture and that's that means to me that there's something they're aware of that's going on it's they have influenced culture ufos have yeah and this idea of disclosure the way it was written in that what was the the actual language jamie about disclosure the controlled controlled disclosure yeah so so that's that's smart yeah let's talk about that for a second if indeed they do discover through this legislation that we have been reverse engineering technologically advanced craft from somewhere

else you gotta have a board you have to have a panel of people being like okay how do we digest this and get this out if that's their intent which i don't believe it's going to be but but if it becomes inevitable if it becomes inevitable how do you do it because it's easy way or hard way easy way um is where we all work together on it. Hard way is fucking chaos. I'll believe disclosure when I see it. I mean, I'm still the, I'm the optimist. I mean, the pessimist of this group.

I just don't think the day is going to come where the president stands up and makes an announcement. And, you know, they're here. They're from somewhere else. Unless it's forced to. Unless the president's involved in another type of scandal and he's trying to like distract everybody. Aliens are real, by the way. Yeah. What do you guys make of the Richard Nixon and Jackie Gleason story? I think it's real. Yeah, I think it's true. Well, the house that he built is like, why do you build a UFO house? You know, and why is there this story connected to you?

a UFO house, you know? And why is there this story connected to you? He had a UFO house and a gigantic UFO library. I guess his ex-wife, after he died, confirmed part of that story that he did go see something with Nixon. But apparently this was in one story that was in, what was it?

Esquire, Jamie? We tried to track this down. I think so, yeah. She was the only, she's the only source of the story. Right. And it's not corroborated anywhere else. It's a great story nonetheless. It's a great story. I'd so, yeah. She was the only, she's the only source of the story. Right. And it's not corroborated anywhere else. It's a great story nonetheless. It's a great story. I'd like to believe it. I want to believe it. I don't want to research it because I don't want to find it to be false. It sounds very

Nixon, right? To like grab, hey, let's go look at the aliens. Yeah, Nixon was fucking nuts. Dude, I would have loved to have been on it. Boy, he should have broken out. He had some other things on his plate that he could have used as a distraction. Yeah, maybe they were. He was probably already worried about being killed. Well, just the fact that so many presidents have tried, you know, to be the disclosure president. Do you remember that last text from John Podesta when he was like coming out of office? He was

listing his regrets. Do you ever see that on Twitter? No. He's listing his regrets, if I recall, of like, and he goes, and lastly, my last regret is like not releasing the UFO files or something. So a lot of presidents have tried, and George and I actually know people that do some of those briefings. They've tried. They've tried to get stuff out, many presidents, and they always they always turn yellow when time comes. And I wonder why. Jimmy Carter. OK, so that was part of his campaign pledge. He had seen a UFO. He promises if I get elected, I'll release this stuff. There was a column in U.S. News and World Report, Washington Whispers. Hey, some disturbing revelations are coming out from the Carter White House about UFOs. And then suddenly it stopped.

And there he is now. He's still in hospice care. If he was ever going to spill the beans, it seems like now would be a good time to go ahead and do it. Let's go shake it down. About to check out. I think if anybody was going to do it, it would be Trump. But how much was he told? I wouldn't tell that guy jack shit.

That was the sentiment? He will tell everybody. Kind of the sentiment. Didn't he say he knew some things? Yeah. He did say he knew some things. He did get a briefing from how we understand it, but I wonder how much of a briefing you give someone.

Right. And does he really? It's not about him. What do you care? Joe, you know we're fucked when George and I are given briefings. You know we're fucked. Well, I mean, if anybody's going to are given briefings. You know we're fucked. Well, I mean, if anybody's going to be given briefings, it's

going to be the two guys that have been working on it forever. I mean, it makes sense that I would go to you guys. I mean, you're the guys that people are contacting. You're the guys that are getting this leaked information. True that. Right. I mean, it makes sense. You guys have the pipeline. True that. And you're

both very careful. You don't say stupid shit. You guys have the pipeline. True that. And you're both very careful. You don't say stupid shit. You know, you like, you say, this is what we know and this is what I've heard and this is speculation. I cannot confirm this, but I think that's very important because when people step out of line and they say stupid shit

and then people go, well, you were wrong about this. You don't even understand how this works. Like, you know, you gotta, this is a very, it, you were wrong about this. You don't even understand how this works. It's easy to dismiss this subject, and I think you guys do a fantastic job being very careful about not being dismissible. Thank you. Look, I defer to George in that I am the least qualified person in the room, in almost every room that I'm in when it comes to stuff.

However— Not this room. I love this room. I got you covered. I love that. No, but like, you know, I've learned a lot from George as my mentor in this,

in, in journalism. I didn't go to school for journalism, you know, I was like an artist or something. I don't know what I was doing, but he's really taught me a lot. Like when it comes to like vetting sources,

well now I, whoa, now I can fucking, you got a hairdresser you need vetted come to me buddy Like it's crazy my ability to get information on people, but he also has his decades-long Connections for that so what what's so cool about our friendship? Is that we can both say okay divide and we go vet something and come together. What'd you find? What'd you find so we can get really brass tacks on shit if something's bullshit in ways that I never thought

I'd be in position to get that kind of quality information. Then we can pass that against each other and we'll say, okay, this one, let's follow that one. So that's pretty cool, that dynamic. It's amazing how much change has happened in this topic in just a couple of years. You know, like I said, I was banging my head against that wall for a long time and not making any progress. And really, one of my goals at the beginning was

make this acceptable for journalists to cover because, you know, it's you get subjected to tremendous amount of ridicule. I've been beaten up and insulted and ridiculed for a long time. And I kept going. But I wanted to show this is a legitimate story. You can cover it and not ruin your career. It finally happened, not because of me. I mean, the New York Times does that story in 2017. It suddenly becomes acceptable for other media to cover it. That gave some cover to members of Congress to actively investigate and ask questions. And that's resulted in the changes that I never thought I would see. You know, we had the UAP task force, ALSAP, AATIP, the task force, AIMSOG, and now

Arrow. And although I have real doubts about whether Arrow is going to get the job done and whether they're going to level with the public, it is progress in the sense that, gosh, we're talking about this as a front burner issue now where it hasn't been for a very long time. Caution, though, it has been a front burner issue with the public in the past, and Congress has taken a look at it in the past, and then something else happens. Either they're diverted by something more pressing. There's always something more pressing for members of Congress. If these guys who are on the front lines of this don't stick with it, we'll go right back. The keepers of the secrets don't want to give this stuff up.

And if they can find a way to pressure those guys to back off, they will. Legit. Well, gentlemen, thank you for all your hard work. We really appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of this slowly but surely. I think we will. I feel like we're going to find something out.

We definitely will learn more tomorrow than we know today. And I got to stay in the fight. And thank you for letting us talk about it. Because, you know, the whole thing, man, is if we don't have this discussion, we're not going to learn shit. Joe, you've changed the playing field too. Your involvement in this has changed the playing field. It really has, whether you like to admit it or not.

Well, it's my pleasure and my honor. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.