The Joe Rogan Experience - #2043 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin are the hosts of the podcast and YouTube program "TRIGGERnometry." www.triggerpod.co.uk

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. When you have headphones on in a video game, you can hear things behind you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can hear things in front of you. You get a sense of where they are. That's one of the... God damn, those things are addictive.

Yeah, man, I'm a gamer. They are so addictive. Yeah, man, I'm a gamer. They are so addictive. Yeah. But that's why, because it's so immersive now. Are you into video games? Oh my God, I have a real problem. I can't play them.

I literally can't play them. I can play pool, right? Because pool, I'm addicted to that. But pool to me is like a mind exercise. It's like a concentration exercise as much as it is a game like it's all about like Everything has to move together and perfect sense of synchronicity and when I'm playing video games I'm just absorbed in this like adrenaline fueled chaos of Graphics and sounds and explosion. It's just way too good

That's the problem you don't want to do anything else you just want to fucking go crazy and play video games this is game I play escape from Tarkov that I just I shouldn't be allowed to play it it's not good for my family man it's just like 10 hours a day and before you know it the whole day is gone you know yeah yeah Wolfenstein 3d that was the game where it just got felt kind of like the sleep. Yeah. Wolfenstein 3D, that was the game where it just felt kind of like the first time I saw Wolfenstein 3D,

which probably shows how old I am now. That's the original id Software title. It's like the first one they did. You quit at the right time, man. That's good. That's what it looked like. Oh, man. So many hours of my childhood were spent

on that. Yeah. So I hours of my childhood were spent on that. Yeah. So I started off with Quake 1. I had a Quake 1 on a computer. I was just playing the game itself because they had put – because I used a Mac. And so then they put out, have a cigar, gentlemen. Thank you, brother. We're like gentlemen here.

Oh, thank you. Nice one. Enjoying some company. But that was just – you just play the game. And then I found out about online playing. I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. What a life suck that is.

Yeah. Do you let your kids play? They play games. Yeah. But fortunately, one's really into Roblox. What's Roblox? Roblox. R-O-B-O-L, or B-L-O-X. I think that's what it is, right?

It's just like they have these little worlds they create, and they run around with their friends in there. It seems like fun. You just have to limit the amount of time they do it. And you have to explain to them, like don't just let them figure out it's addictive. Explain to them that it, don't just let them figure out it's addictive. Explain to them that it's addictive. Yeah.

Explain to them that there's things that you're going to want to get really good at that won't help you. Yes. It's a great way of looking at it. Because, like, I had a friend, and he was one of the guys who was one of the managers of the comic store. Super awesome guy. And he was hooked on EverQuest. You know that game? Remember that game?

Remember that game, Jamie? There's a massive online multiplayer game. You're a wizard. You're casting spells and shit, that kind of thing. And one day I'll never forget, we were all standing around in the comedy store bar, and he was pale, pale like paper. He hadn't been out of the house in days like he just his eyes were sunk into his head he goes i am so good at making money in the game and so bad at doing it

in real life wow whoa i was like okay you've put all your energy into getting really good at something that doesn't do you any good. Unless you're going to be a professional, which they do have. That's a hard thing to say to a kid. Don't play video games. Right. If then you find out how much video game players are making. Right. It's like, don't start a podcast.

Exactly. Right. Are we dinosaurs? They're so good. I'm not talking shit about games. But what I am saying- But you've got to control it is what you're saying. They're too good. They're too good. They're so good. I'm not talking shit about games But what you gotta control is what you're saying. They're too good. They're too good. They're your life is boring as fuck Compared to those games like there's no way there's no way it's as exciting as playing like quake 3 arena online

With it like a 30 inch monitor and you're sitting right in front of it and you're got fucking headphones on explosions and lightning guns it's amazing because if you think about it right like computer games are instant gratification well and that's how you get success in a computer game but if you think about life life how to become successful is basically deferred gratification yeah yeah and there's another level to it which is in a computer game rewards are linear you work for a bit you get a reward you work for a bit you get a reward you work for a bit but life isn't like that in life you work for a bit you get fucking kicked to shit for for years sometimes right you gotta work and work and work and sometimes it's going to be really shitty for a long time and then there may be be a reward, or they may not. Sometimes the work is the reward itself, right? So that, in some ways, it actually changes how you think about achieving things

and doing things as well, which is, you know, I have sometimes found that helpful, because you kind of know if you work, you get a reward. But sometimes it can mess with your reward system as well, I think. Well, you look at what video games do. It encourages you to spend as much time doing them as possible. The more you do them, the more whatever you're doing you acquire. That's kind of the case with real life.

Well, think about stockbrokers. Think about those kind of folks. Folks are just in it trying to make money, just trying to figure out what to buy and what to sell. For them, it's all numbers. So they must be, like, addicted to these numbers. Like, they're probably super addicted to, like, seeing their bank account and seeing their hedge fund,

seeing what do they have, like, how much, how much. I need more than that. You know, like, you compare yourself and you read the list of the richest people in the world. Oh, this guy's got 200 billion. Holy shit, I got to do better. You know what? How do you keep going once you got to like a billion?

How do you motivate yourself to like make more? You've got more money than you. Unless what you're doing is what you enjoy doing. Which is where Elon falls into that category. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? He's making money, but what he does is he's I mean, it's essentially it's all engineering stuff All of it, you know, it's innovation and engineering, you know the boring company

They're trying to like drill tunnels under the cities. That's crazy right though SpaceX. That's fucking insane You're shooting rockets in the space. You want to put people on Mars? Electric cars your engineering electric cars electric cars, electric roofs. Everything is like this new innovative product, Starlink. Oh, let's just get high-speed internet and fucking fly it through the sky. People keep seeing those things and thinking they're UFOs, by the way. Do they? Yeah.

But it's also as well, if you think about making money, what is really making money? It's the deal. And actually, you just get addicted to the deal. That's a good point. It's like a form of gambling. I'm going to try this tactic. But no, they push back on here. But I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do that.

And then maybe if we try that, then this is going to happen. And then you make the deal, and boom, you get the dopamine. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I know some hedge fund guys who love doing it after the first billion too. Well, if they really enjoy that game, I guess. I mean, I guess it's kind of like playing Magic the Gathering or something. I mean, it is a game.

You're playing it to win it. But social media is a game. Yes. And it's a game a lot like video games. Yeah. Where it's like you're really not getting anything out of this. And you're probably losing a lot of your time. I suppose for people like us, we're building profile and connections.

I've met so many amazing people actually through social media. For sure. We're all on it, right? We're all on it, but also we're all on it. Yeah. And some of the people that are on it aren't even really there. There's so much interaction that's instigated. There's so many inflammatory accounts that I read them and I'm like, there is no way that's a real person.

Not. This is all design. There's just a certain percentage of people that are just trying to stir up shit in conversations all the time and they usually have like american flags in their profile like you know like some some trump thing in their name and then you go to their account it doesn't look real at all and you're like i wonder where this is is this guy in moldova like where where is he like where is he yeah is he in latvia like where where's this guy that's doing this yeah there's so many people like that There's one guy, I'm not going to mention his name

But he lives in Asia And he's always commenting about America And I'm like, mate, should you not be commenting about your own country Instead of clipping riots in America? Well, he could get killed In his own country He's displaced protesters Good fucking luck tweeting bad shit about China.

If you're in China, they got that pretty locked down. Oh, they do. Oh, they do. Yeah, and there's several countries that have arrested people for tweets. Well, we come from one of them. Yeah, I know. You guys do. You do.

2018, 3,000 people, man. 3,000 people got arrested for tweeting bad things. Not tweeting, but social media posts, yeah. So between, what was the biggest one? It had to be Facebook, right? That's where people complain the most. Is it? Probably.

I think those are the complainiest folks. Those are the older folks. Yeah. I mean, the most famous example is Count Dankula, the internet comedian where you taught his pug to do a nazi salute but there's been lots of others examples you know people there's a tragic fire that happened in london called the grenfell fire it was awful people were literally burnt to death in this tower block and these group of people they were idiots basically did a

representation on bonfire night in november the 5th in our country and they did a representation on bonfire night in November the 5th in our country and they did a representation of people in the tower and set fire to it. They videoed it. They were laughing along. Now obviously that's a dick move. I think we can all agree with that. But you don't arrest somebody for that. For basically being a dick. Yeah, it shouldn't be illegal to be stupid. No.

You're crossing a line because you're making a subjective judgment. It's not funny to me. And it's not funny probably to a lot of rational people. But you should be able to try. Like, the whole thing about doing something, like, a lot of times when people do outrageous things they think are going to be funny, they don't know. And then they try it.

That's not a thing you should arrest people for. Because you're setting a crazy precedent. Because then they try it. That's not a thing you should arrest people for because you're setting a crazy precedent because then it becomes subjective. Like what's outrageous and what's not. It could move to anything. It could move to, you know, trans identification or trans rights. It could move to anything. Vaccine hesitancy. I mean, we can keep going. Vaccine hesitancy. I mean, we can keep going. Yeah, vaccine hesitancy, not supporting Ukraine. There's a whole slew of things that could be stuffed into that box once you open it. You just can't open that box. That box has got to be, people have to be able to, this is how we have to conduct ourselves.

People have to be able to express themselves. And they have to be able to use facts and reality and not get censored. And they have to be able to do that kind of universally and if they can't do that if the good ideas can't compete against the bad ideas and the good ideas aren't good enough so we have to figure it out a strength and the good ideas but the only way that works is if you don't censor people because as soon as you start censoring people you're admitting that you don't want to engage in this you don't want you don't want to you don't want to show a better way of looking at things you just want to be the only person who gets to talk and that's what we saw on social media over the last few years and which is

why elon buying twitter was such a big fucking deal it's a big fucking deal and i know advertisers are panicking and people are saying that hate talk is up and I must admit I have seen a lot of wild shit on X now that I don't think I would have ever seen before like Open really racist stuff some pretty gross stuff. It's just it's also it's just weird how comfortable people are Talking a certain way. Mm-hmm. It's almost like I I wonder how much of the idea of it being completely uncensored now. It's not totally uncensored. I mean, there's some moderation, right? There's things you can't do.

You can't dox people. You can't do a lot of things. And they can't catch everything either. Didn't they fire like most people? I mean, nothing much changed, though. I didn't feel it terrible. I think that in terms of the hate speech stuff or whatever you call that, whatever it is, that's just a product of the fact that they're not moderating as much.

And I actually think, I mean, what you said was, you know, just preach on that. But I also think on top of that, we have to, those of us who believe in freedom of expression, we have to also admit that freedom comes at a cost and it's worth paying. That's what we have to be honest about. I think we have to say, It's worth paying. Yeah. That's what we have to be honest about, I think. We have to say we're getting freedom at the cost of some discomfort. Some people are allowed to be dicks.

Yeah. And that's the price we're willing to pay. I mean, freedom always comes at a cost, right? And it's trade-offs. You could make the country really safe if you lock every man between 18 and 40 in a prison. But we don't do that because we understand we can't do that, right? Despite what some feminists want. Statistically, though, they'd be right.

That's what I'm saying. That's who commits the crimes. Yeah. I used to have this bit about what would it be like if women caused all wars? Because men caused all of them. Men caused every fucking war that's ever happened. Pretty much. I mean, maybe women were involved. Well, I mean, there's Helen of's ever happened. Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, maybe women were involved.

Well, I mean, there's Helen of Troy. Yeah. Yeah. But she wasn't out there fighting. She just wanted to be with her true love, mate. It was her fault. That can be a factor. Yeah.

You know, there's like really strong women and pussy whip kings. A lot of that happens. But for the most part, you know, if you locked all the men up, yeah, right, there would be no crime. Except in jail. There would be a lot of crime in jail. Let's stop giving them ideas. Well, it's, you know, we fix all of the insane tension in the world today? It seems like this is no other time in my life have I felt like there's more conflict and more tension in the air. It didn't used to be that people with differing ideas, whether they're on the right or the left, were so fucking hateful.

So, I've seen the kind of rhetoric that you see online is just so like, if we don't win, democracy is lost. And it's from both sides. sides. I think the problem is, man, is that we spend all our time on these platforms, which incentivizes that type of behavior, because it's always going to be the most controversial take, the most reactionary point of view that's going to gain the most engagement. And that's going to work with the algorithm, which is going to drive it. So really, you know, people respond to incentives and you're incentivizing people to be more reactionary, more divisive, more aggressive. When the reality is, as we all know, like if you got those two people to sit in front of one another and have a conversation, they wouldn't behave like that because you have the added

element of getting a punch in the face. Yeah. That's another thing, right? Like most people would never communicate the way they communicate online in real life. Yeah. And it's partly what Francis said, which is the potential for violence, right? Yeah, it's real. It's real. Yeah, it's real. And it's maybe a guy thing, but we instinctively know that, right? Bill Burr used to have this incredible bit of how he would behave if it was illegal to – or if you couldn't hit him.

Just walk up to a gym bro, snap a milkshake out of his hand. hit him you know just walk up to a gym bro snap milkshake out of his hand yeah yeah so the face to face thing changes everything because most of the way we communicate is actually not in the words right it's this is how we're designed right yeah we're designed to communicate in in person we're designed to take social cues verbal cues physical cues yeah just as if you could sense energy in people yeah you could sense that people are upset with you even though their expression doesn't change it's interesting it's really interesting and we've also come to this point which is really worrying to me

where people think that words of violence that's crazy man and if you think that words of violence and if you literally interpret it as that then you having an argument with someone is you literally being physically assaulted so if you're going if you feel like you're being physically assaulted then you're going argument with someone is you literally being physically assaulted. So if you feel like you're being physically assaulted,

then you're going to up the ante and you're going to become more aggressive as a result. You're justified to defend yourself. Yeah. If you think that everyone is a Nazi, like a literal Nazi, you feel justified in your actions. And a lot of them are convinced of that. It's like being in a cult. But are they convinced though?

This is what I wonder, Joe. It's like they keep using that word about everybody, right? Yeah. But if you actually thought democracy was over and the Nazis have taken over, wouldn't you pick up a gun and rise up and overthrow them? I think they're pretty close to that. It seems like if you woke up one day and that broke out in philadelphia you wouldn't be stunned yeah right you know and you're seeing what the looting and the craziness of philadelphia is right now right yeah yeah it's bonkers man this defund the police stuff is psychotic it's crazy to

literally encourage crime because if you don't have Incentives if you don't have something in place to keep people from committing crime People that have already committed crime in their life like multiple times like many times. They're just gonna do it whenever they want and That's what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yes It's amazing how and it's part of this sort of mindset that every human behavior is a product of the circumstances, but it's not. Some people will commit crime, right? And we have to also have a system that prevents that from happening. We have to have police. We have to have everything else, right?

And decriminalizing crime is a bad idea. It's a stupid idea. And it's just this idea that's born out of guilt, not logic. It's born out of virtue signaling not rational thinking It's just not the way to do it If you have bad cops you're supposed to train them to be better You should fund them better treat them better respect them more and then they should have more of a relationship with the community It should be a thing where they're trying to literally protect you not

Constantly persecute people and fuck with people. And it's like that line is a very thin line. Then also, who the fuck wants that job? Who the fuck wants to be yelled at all the time? Who wants to be the professional enemy? Who wants to be someone that it's okay to just shoot at? Who wants to be the person that everybody you interact with is lying to you? Was there a time in your life, Joe, where the police were respected by most people? There's always been problems. You know, there was a problem. Hunter S. Thompson wrote about the Chicago riots being one of the most horrific things that he ever saw in his life, the way cops were beating the people with clubs and shit. It's, there's always been bad cops,

just like there's always been bad plumbers. Yeah. There's just bad, some people just suck. They suck at what they do. And they come from a bad environment. They didn't have good role models. They grew up around assholes. They don't have any motivation. Maybe they're hooked on drugs. And they suck at what they do.

And that could be anything. Anybody could suck at anything. Cops, too. There's cops that are awesome human beings. I know a lot of cops that are great people. From jujitsu, I've known so many cops because cops are constantly training. And generally, they're really nice guys with a fucking really hard job. But you don't hear about those.

You hear about the one that does some horrible thing. You see about the one who plants the gun on the guy after he shoots him. You see the one where people shoot people when they're reaching for their wallets. You see the crazy shit. You see people punching women in the face. You see crazy shit, right? But you don't see all the positive interactions.

And you don't see what happens if you get rid of them. And that's what you're seeing with these smash and grabs. These are fucking bananas, man, because they're everywhere now. And people are seeing so many of them on the Internet. They're seeing that people are getting away with them. And it's encouraging them. Yeah.

And this is what happened. You know, Venezuela was always had a problem with lawlessness. But when Chavez came to power after a few years, you know, they said the cops weren't going to prosecute people criminals because prosecuting crime is a sign of right-wing oppression right wherever you heard that before right and as a result of that it became so completely and utterly lawless that the city became uninhabitable it became the murder capital of the world and the kidnap capital of the world because there's always going to be a small subset of society who are criminals and who will then look to maximize their opportunities to make money yeah there's there's a couple arguments

about this that make sense when when people say that they're a victim of their circumstance and we we have to appreciate that they were put into a horrible circumstance in life and they're just trying to get by that's true too yeah so what we have to do that we're not doing is try to figure out how to stop that, how to stop, how to make like a minimum quality of life for everybody where you're, no one's growing up in dire poverty. That, if you can send how many, I mean, how many trillions of dollars have we spent just on military budgets over the last few years? If they figured out a way to give contractors a lot of money to fix neighborhoods, like to completely clean them up, provide modern housing, take care of all the... Figure out ways to set people up for work programs and give people jobs.

If that was financially viable, just like Hal Burton had those contracts to rebuild Iraq after we blew it up, if they had something like that for inner cities where these guys could literally make money doing it, that could be one way to kind of re-engineer things. Because if they could just figure out how to do that, you'd have so much less crime. You'd have a lot less crime, yeah. You'd have a lot less crime. If people had hope, if people had role models,

if they had community centers, if they had really good education and they had safe streets. Just that alone. Just that alone. Yeah, it would reduce crime a lot definitely a long fucking time though yeah because you got generation after generation of people who lived there when you're talking about like really fucked up gang-ridden neighborhoods yeah no one's done anything about those neighborhoods for a long time yeah yeah it's generational it's like built

into the people that live there they're accustomed to it and you know it's family structure as well once once you disrupt all that, there's not enough male role models. Where are young kids going to look for a role model? It's going to be the men with status around them. Who's that going to be? Drug dealers. Yeah, gang members. Status and money. That's them.

And guys who grew up in those kind of neighborhoods all have that story. And that's true too. You know, like, yeah, you can't defund the police but you also can't ignore the plight of a good percentage of our community like we're supposed to be a united community of human beings we call ourselves americans we live on the same patch of land except for alaska and hawaii alaska's the dumbest like how is that ours you know it's not even connected you know people don't talk about the culture aspect about it a lot i remember when i was teaching at a school

there was a really rough school i taught a little kid let's call him darren and he's one of the smartest kids i've ever encountered so bright i remember he was always getting kicked out of school uh guy i kicked out of lessons and when i was like one of the jobs that you do as a teacher you walk around the corridor and you pick up the kids who get kicked out of lessons. And when I was like one of the jobs that you do as a teacher, you walk around the corridor and you pick up the kids who get kicked out of the lesson. And I just I then taught Darren chess. And within about two days, he could beat me at chess. He was super, super, super bright. One of the brightest kids I've ever encountered.

But because he came from a criminal family, he was never going to make it through school. He just wasn't because the values that had been inculcated him right the way from birth meant that he was never gonna succeed and this is what I found frustrating that a lot of people didn't get they were like he's a bad kid he's a bit yep he's a kid who's a product of his culture and it takes a very special person to be able to break out of that and generally they have to find something to break out, whether it's music or sports or something that breaks them out. Stand-up comedy that breaks them out of that. So some new world that they can enter into and succeed in.

And then they can leave the old world behind. And at the same time, coming back to the point you made earlier, crime still has to be illegal. We can understand people's circumstances and not encourage and incentivize them to commit crime. Yeah. We have to be able to do both. We have to walk and chew gum at the same time, man. We got to be.

We have to be. Yeah. We have to be able to do both. But the way to fix it is not defunding the police. That's not the way. That's the worst strategy. But that's such a virtue signaling strategy. That's like, well, look what they did to George Floyd.

No, look what one guy did. One guy did. And there was a more than appropriate response by the people that saw that video. People freaked the fuck out. And the violence and the burning and all that smashing and shit. Very unfortunate. But that out blast of hate at least should make people recognize that, A, you can be held responsible for something horrific like that if someone's filming it. And then also that those kind of cops do exist.

And also that it's on all of them. And we've got to figure out a way to train cops or screen them better. Or like Jocko says, that you should train them the same way train seals like seals develop They go through this training program and then they dedicate a certain amount of time forever for training. They're always training Hmm cops don't do that. They just stay cops Yeah Yeah And he's like you should dedicate a certain percentage of their time should be dedicated to training and they should be held accountable

But it's also it's like you're asking a lot and then on top of that you're essentially dealing with people that have a high instance of PTSD Very high instance and not discussed and not appreciated you hear about PTSD from People that are victims of violence and people that are victims war you hear about that, but you don't hear about PTSD from people that are victims of violence and people that are victims of war. You hear about that, but you don't hear about it about cops. Yeah. And also the point you made earlier. I mean, how much does it take to train a SEAL?

Yeah. It takes a lot. Right. How much do we spend training police officers? Not nearly as much. And also, like, hey, you shouldn't be fat. Like, hey. And also, you should be able to physically defend yourself.

Yeah. And even if you're a woman, you should know jiu-jitsu. You should be able to defend yourself. Because we've seen time and time again these horrific situations where cops can't physically defend themselves and some criminal gets loose and beats the fuck out of them. Yeah. I mean, I've seen so many videos of this one was horrible this lady pulled this

guy over and the guy's daughter was in the car she's like don't daddy don't daddy and he's beating the fuck out of this lady cop you know when I left University I did a like a temp job at the Metropolitan Police just doing like paperwork and what was really interesting when i was working those offices is there were a lot of cops there working and they were all just guys who were burnt out ptsd'd out their eyeballs they couldn't function anymore and all they all they did was just routine admin jobs and i used to go with these guys to go and drink and like really good guys really good guys and the stories they told me, they were just horrific.

And the drinking culture. And the only way a lot of these guys were functioning is by working. Most of them, you know, they had one or two marriages they had failed and then they would just go out and just get smashed because that was their only way of coping because the support for them was minimal. They didn't have any support. If you go to a murder scene and you see a guy who's basically killed himself

and then shot his daughter and his wife, and you don't have any type of support when you come out to talk to, to help you to process that, you're not meant to be exposed to that all the time all the time but that's all you do that's all you do yeah and we don't even consider that it's just such a stupid underappreciation and it's it's just so unfortunate that that's so prevalent. And it's somehow or another equated to liberalism. And I just think it's just the wrong approach. I think it's like fundamentally it's the wrong approach. I empathize and I even agree with how they feel about the way the setup in this country is not fair.

It's not fair. There are people that do not get a fair starting block. Their starting block sucks. Where they take off from in life, it's not the same as yours. It's not the same as mine. But we got to fix that. The thing is not like fixing it

when it gets to all the way to letting violent criminals out because you think they were wronged in life. You're just going to let violent criminals out. Then you're not changing them because you acknowledge the fact that they've been done wrong. And also we have to be real in a society like yours and like ours where we define poverty. I mean, look, the communities you're talking about, they're really in deep trouble, of course. But we still – we define poverty in relative terms. And somebody will always be poorer than other people.

Yes, but like dire poverty, food stamps, welfare. You don't have money for food. I know, but those people are much wealthier than many of the people I grew up around. Which is crazy, right? Right. It's like it's 34%. $34,000 a year is 1% of the world. Yeah.

People call themselves like, you know, all these 1%ers. Bitch, that's you. That's you. Right. That's everybody here. That's all of us. Yeah. Especially most people working make more than $34,000 a year.

So most people in America that have a full-time job, they're probably making more than $34,000 a year. And they're in the top 1% of the world. Yeah. You know the thing that I don't think people talk about enough. They're probably making more than $34,000 a year, and they're in the top 1% of the world. Yeah. You know the thing that I don't think people talk about enough. So when I was teaching, I taught in rural communities. And in a lot of rural communities, because of globalization, because of the industrialization, there's just generation after generation who are growing up, who are becoming adults, and there is no work.

There is no work for the vast majority of them. And what it inculcates in them is a sense of hopelessness and if you grow up in a culture where you feel that there is no hope and you look around you and everyone is broken and no one is working and everyone is given up then even as a kid you think to yourself well well what's the point of doing anything because i'm just going to end up like uncle dave on the sofa getting you know what i mean yeah even if you don't intellectually think it emotionally you feel it well that's the thing that can happen to kids in high school so if you're in high school and you're hanging around with the crowd who likes to party and drink and fuck off and not do much and know, those are the fun people to hang out with. And then you get out of school, and now you're supposed to get a job.

Now you're on your own. You have to figure it out. And these guys aren't figuring it out. If you're trapped in that kind of a friend group, you can get sucked into very low expectations. And you could fucking waste a long chunk of your life before you figure that out. Totally, man. And, you know, culture, you're right, Francis,

is such a powerful thing. I mean, when I was 18, I spent a few weeks sleeping in the park because I didn't have money and I had a long family situation that was very bad. But it never occurred to me that I would stay there because that wasn't what I came from and it wasn't the environment I was raised in.

I always knew that I would get out of it you know and culture you know whatever attitude whatever you want to call it will will push you through things that if you don't have it it's gonna be impossible you don't have expectations that you know you know you don't know people that have succeeded in life and done well and that's a better word expectations than culture expectations if you're in a fucking place like south side of Chicago, have you ever looked at the murder rate? Man, it's heartbreaking.

There's so many crazy videos of shootouts in the street. It's like, I just watched one the other day. Guy pulls over, jumps out of the car, shoots these guys. It's just happening on the street. These kids are growing up in a war zone. So if you're a kid and you're growing up there and you're 15 years old, how many people have you seen killed? Three, four, five? How many have you seen killed?

Are you out at night? Are you at 13 years old? Are you roaming around the streets at night being wild? Are you seeing gang violence? Are you participating in it? And what do you want as a young man? You want status? You want money? Yeah man you want status you want money yeah you want girls who

are the people all the people that you see around you who are who are the people that have that also it's probably pretty fucking exciting oh man yeah you know shoot some guns yeah better than working at lowe's yeah when i was again like i was working in East London. And this is the thing, you know, because I try always to have compassion for people. And obviously, you're human sometimes. You're just like, you're a f***. Right. But the thing that I found most heartbreaking, man, is there were kids in my class who I taught. They had learning difficulties.

They were, you know, they're low IQ. They weren't particularly bright. They were sweet kids. And they were just know they you know they're low iq they weren't particularly bright they were sweet kids and they were just targeted by gangs because gangs knew that they could groom them that they were 10 11 years old there was no one at home no one cared for them they could groom them and then they could become drug runners and whatever else you know my ex was an educational psychologist she was working with a lot of these kids one of one of her kids like went missing he the kid went missing 10 11 years old this was in north london she was working with a lot of these kids one of her kids like went missing he the kid went missing 10 11 years old this was in north london she was working the kid was found in scotland literally a different country at the other end of the island and you're

like you know and it was it was gang it was gang you know because they take them they groom them they give them money they're the first person who shows them affection the first person to show you know what? Everybody else has written you off. Everyone else thinks you're stupid. But you know what? Come and join us. Come and join us.

I'll show you respect. I'm going to give you responsibility. And you know what else you're going to do? You're going to get money. Here's a question. We all have this vision of a utopian society where there is no longer war. There is no longer crime. But it's never existed.

It's never existed even briefly. Isn't it – is there something that human beings – it's almost like built into the operating system of human beings that you need a certain amount of antagonists a certain amount of protagonists to keep things moving and that the the urgency that everybody feels right now is like social urgency it's almost like we're building up to like an ideological super bowl like we're going to figure out which one of these ideas makes the most sense you know it's like it feels like there's like this tension build up i i almost wonder if that's something that we need in order to figure things out like we need this chaos we need people trying to control narratives we need people trying to censor people we need

people to do it so we realize how horrific it is so we act out we talk about it so it's not like this slow creeping censorship where you don't notice it. It's like it's shocking. They're censoring news stories that could hurt the party that they want to win in the elections. It's crazy stuff. It is crazy. And we had the case with debanking in the UK where this guy, Nigel Farage, I don't know

if you know him. I did hear about that story. Yeah, he's kind of like the Donald Trump of the UK in some ways, you know, very unpopular with some things very with some people very popular with others. And his bank, which was a kind of like bank for wealthy people, they closed his account without explaining why. He started doing some digging, he did a freedom of information request or something. It's not called that, but it's basically the same thing. And the bank came out and said, it's because he doesn't have enough money. Bullshit.

Turned out it wasn't true. Eventually, he got the information saying that the transcripts of their internal conversations were that part of the reason they shut his account down was political. Right. And then we had the Financial Conduct Authority, which is the people who are supposed to investigate this stuff. They did an investigation and said there was no political debanking going on. All the newspapers reported it. And in paragraph five of that same article, you can see that his case was not taken into account in the report, right?

So they lied about it stage after stage after stage. And now you've got mainstream journalists spreading this crap that they know isn't true. All they have to do is have a good headline. All they have to do is have a good headline. The inside of it can be nonsense. And they can even show you right in front of your face why what they're saying is incorrect. And it doesn't matter. And then they all bitch and whine.

And then they go, why is no one watching our content? Well, here's the wildest one that's going on right now. You know the Mar-a-Lago controversy of the pricing or the… The inflated value of the house. Yeah, the value of the Mar-a-Lago. The judge ruled that it was worth $18 million. It's 20 acres in, like, the most expensive real estate in that area. Like, a house down the street from it, much smaller.

It's just sold for $50 million. Wow. Even if Forbes said it's worth somewhere between, I think, see what Forbes said. I think they said it was worth between $300 and $700 million. And they were saying that it's worth $18 million. It's like they don't even try to pretend. Why does no one trust the mainstream?

If the guy says his house is worth a billion dollars, right? Yeah. And then you come along and say, no, no, no, it's worth like $800 million. Forbes says it's worth as much as $700 million. We'll call it $700 million. Now you've got a reasonable argument. Yeah. But if you say $18 million, you've got to know that's like a palace.

The place is a palace. It's 20 acres. Get the fuck out of here. This is great. You can't do that. That's like too obvious. You're just, you don't give a fuck about the truth. They don't.

You don't give a fuck about the truth. He claimed it was worth 1.5 billion and laid his plea to drop fraud case. But judge ruled it's wildly inflated. Yeah, but the judge does not have a an accurate sense of the market in my opinion it just that the property size alone it's such a giant chunk of property so that says it's worth somewhere about half a bill right is that what is that what that's no so he said the judge was saying that it's worth between, it says, okay, citing an appraisal report from the city of Palm Beach that pegged the value of Mar-a-Lago between $18 million and $27.6 million between 2011 and 2020. Oh, right.

Okay, so it was $18 million, and now it's worth, because of inflation, $27. $325 million, that's how much Forbes estimated Mar-a-Lago's worth as of September. Although we peg its net value at $292 million after deducting roughly $33 million in debt. Okay, so it's got debt. So I think what they're saying the scam is, is you wildly overinflate a piece of real estate. Again, I don't know jack shit about real estate. But I think what you do is you say, I got a house worth a billion dollars.

I need a loan. They give you a loan based on this billion dollar property you have. Then they send an appraiser to you and say, hey, but this house is worth 18 million. Then you're like, uh-oh. So now you really got a loan, but you got a loan based on something that's not really worth

as much. So they're collateral or whatever it is. The reason why they would give you that much money doesn't make any sense. But clearly that can't be accurate. If you're seeing pictures of that fucking place, show some photos of Mar-a-Lago. If that was 18 million, dudes would be buying them every day.

It would last three seconds on the market before somebody bought it. People would just be calling up. The phone lines would get jammed yeah i'll take it sight unseen i'll take it yeah 18 million i mean even 27 million calling a 1.5 billion is a trump thing my favorite thing about the whole speech is he talks about himself in the third person the judge hates trump so he keeps saying. That is it. That's a nice house.

It's a fucking palace, man. Look at that place. It's insane. And the inside of it is all like, click on that photo of Trump there with the chandelier. Look how fucking beautiful it is inside. Matt, that is ridiculous. I mean, look, maybe it's me being a Brit, but I look at it and go, it's a bit fucking much, that.

Oh, it's a lot much. It's not my style. That looks like something out of a Russian czar's house, you know what I mean? Yes, that's what I like about it. That's what I want Trump's house to look like. If Trump lived in some bullshit fucking log cabin, I'd be so disappointed. Right, right. If Trump lived in, like, fucking John Dutton's house on Yellowstone yeah that's on brand as you say that's on brand what a house the size of that property yeah yeah so those little houses around there so it's like 30 billion dollars Wow that's crazy

expensive property there to think that that's only worth 18 million to 27 million that's that seems a little insane you know the thing that always gets me man is, is like, you read in the mainstream media and they criticize our podcast and your show and then they go, these people spread misinformation. I'm like, mate, what are you talking about? You've been spreading misinformation from day one. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's like getting a lecture on dating from ted bundy you're like mate come on yeah it seems crazy for them to keep harping on that at this point it's like don't you know about the internet people have made they've made like compilation videos of you guys being wrong over and over and over and over and over again and you've never apologized for it the i mean, whatever you want to talk about, whether it's the Russia collusion thing or the saying the dangers of Trump denying the election, then you show how many people denied Trump's election.

Right. It was calling him the illegitimate president. Hillary called him an illegitimate president. Yeah, they said he stole the election. If you think that's dangerous from him, then it's dangerous from you too. And we should all acknowledge that we should try to figure out a way to make the elections as fair as possible. My real fear is that not everybody's on board with that. That's my real fear. I would love to

believe that everybody on the right and everybody on the left just wants a fair battle. And they just want to be able to speak their mind to the public and have the people choose. That's what I would like to believe. And that we would like to encourage all Americans to vote. Everyone should just get informed and go out there and give your opinion. Let's see how the country feels. Yeah. But I don't know how much shenanigans is going on. You know, there's a little, you know, there's a little collusion between social media companies. We know that now. That's kind of scary.

That's kind of scary that you would think that what you believe is so important that you're willing to manipulate an election. That scares you. It should scare us because it's like, man, they could use that on you. I mean, we could have this. Imagine if there's like we have this fucking amazing person who's running for president. And like finally, all rational people in the center, people that are rational on the right and the left agree that this person has the country's best ideas in mind. And we've made like awesome progress with the way this person is communicating with everybody. And it seems like they could really unite us and they get fucked somebody comes in and just manipulates it doesn't

like the idea of some new person taking charge doesn't like some night the idea some radical thinker who wants to try to make things as good as possible for the whole country. And that maybe there's a way to do that. And they get fucked by some establishment spokesperson because they know how to manipulate the system. And look at the thing, the people that rise to the top in the current system in your country and in ours. I mean, the idea that these two people, whoever they end up being,

if it's Biden and Trump, let's say, these are the best people out of 320 million fucking people. Well, the thing about Biden is out of 320 million fucking people? Well, the thing about Biden is he's already won, right? So he is the president. So it only makes sense that he runs for president if he's physically capable of doing that. The thing about Trump is there's, you know, the narrative that he and a lot of his followers put out is that the election was rigged and that, you know that he should be the legitimate president anyway. And no one else is voting for anybody else. These hardcore Trumpers, they're going to go all in on Trump.

So it's like, okay, how else could it be other than Trump versus Biden? Unless they arrest Trump, unless they figure out a way to make some of these charges stick. And here's the thing with Trump, you know, to him, this is no longer a presidential race. To him, this is existential because this is probably the only chance he's going to have of avoiding jail. So you look at it like that and you think Trump is already a guy who, let's put it bluntly and mildly, will do whatever it takes to win. And if you put a guy like that and you say the only way that you're going to avoid jail is to win the presidency, you're already notching it up a few ratchet when it comes to making the atmosphere really toxic. And you can play that argument the other way.

I mean, in terms of Biden and the investigations that are happening, Donald Trump gets elected. What is he going to do? They would argue that too, right? Yeah. The Biden thing is fascinating to watch people ignore it. Did you see Noam Dwarman's interview with that guy? No, I did not.

You never saw? Oh, man, it's Noam Dwarman from the cellar, from the comedy cellar. Oh, okay. He had a guy on his podcast who he billed up as like the most sane guy who says that the Hunter Biden thing was a nothing burger. And they went round for like an hour and the guy just would not, it was the craziest thing that I've ever seen. I'll send it to you. Okay. Yeah.

It's a journal from the Washington Post. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He thinks it's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. But when. Is he doing mental gymnastics? Yeah. It's a journal from the Washington Post. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He thinks it's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. But,

but when, when he doing mental gymnastics. Yeah. So when Noam essentially corners him and goes, no, no, look at this, look at this.

The guy just, he, he just, he wants to leave. That's it. Yeah. Well, that's a fucking live wire for them.

They don't want to touch that. Yeah. You know, it's like, there's really no defending it rationally. So if you're on the team that has to defend the left, which, you know, you've all seen people like that on podcasts before where you realize, oh, this guy is just, this isn't like a real person. This is a representative of whatever they're for, whether it's the right or the left. You know, there's people like that where you never really see them.

Yeah. You know, they have walls. And what they're doing is just like speaking that kind of language there's always going to be people like that we've got to get back or not back i don't think we were ever there but we got to get somehow the idea that truth matters man and it doesn't matter what fucking team you're on the truth matters if you're left right up down whatever the truth that's what we're doing right now yeah yeah i think that's what we do and that's one of the reasons why your show works yeah and that's one of the reasons why this show works is because people can just talk.

And they can do so in a way that you really – it's not available anywhere else. The reason why people are so hungry for these kind of conversations on podcasts is because you can't get it anywhere else. These other people aren't doing it. They're doing a different thing. They're doing a thing where there's a giant business behind it, and there's advertisers, and there's a bunch of executives and producers, and they all have segments that they've developed, and there's a giant business behind it and there's advertisers and there's a bunch of executives and producers and they all have segments that they've developed and there's writers and everyone. And then you get to express yourself sort of through this very narrow window to be able to just sit and shoot the shit and just, just say, why is this? And why is that? And what is this? And what is that like that kind of freedom to do that? It's never existed before.

No. And they're all terrified of existed before no and they're all terrified of a twitter storm they're all terrified of a twitter storm you see it in our politics you know where somebody says something like the hot topic at the moment is is immigration particularly illegal immigration so there's a lot of people coming from france to the uk illegally they just jump in a boat from France illegally. And it's run by cartels and gangs. And the really sad thing is some of these people actually

drown in the English Channel as a result. And they come to the UK. This needs to stop. You just can't have unfiltered illegal immigration. Yet you get people on, politicians, to go, look, we need to stop this. And then people are calling they're saying that they're, you know, one

very famous ex-sportsman compares that to Nazi Germany. It's like, why is it happening in this big rush? Is this engineered? Like, why is it happening like this? Like, what is it about

this, uh, it happening like this? Like, what is it about this? It seems like at least some people want to keep the borders open. Yeah. It seems like it. Yeah. It seems like something's changed where they've made it easier for people to just come across. Yeah. So what happened? Right.

Whose idea is that? Right. And then what is this crazy push where you want people to not have ID to vote, but you want people to have ID to make sure you have a vaccine passport or you can't work or get on a plane? And did you check any of these people to see if they were vaccinated when they came aboard? You really didn't, did you?

So what are we doing here? It's crazy. It's like hundreds of thousands of we doing here? It's crazy. It's like hundreds of thousands of people a month. It's crazy. You brought it up earlier. I think we talked about this last time with Thomas Sowell, who's just like, I mean, I've read every book that he's ever published, and I just think he's amazing. You know, we talked about the tragic vision versus the slightly more utopian way of looking at things. You know, when you were talking about crime earlier, the tragic vision of life kind of says, if you look back at our history,

you kind of get a sense of what human beings are. And human beings are flawed. They're not perfect. They will commit crime. They will do terrible things. They will go to war. They will do that. And so the only thing you can do is know that and then act accordingly right that means that you have to have a border that means you have to have a police force you have to recognize the fallibility of human beings and the societal dynamics as well and then you can make good policy that's how you make good policy but if you live in this blue sky world only the blue sky world is great for inspiring you to be better than your human instincts and all of that. But there's also a real world in which you have to, you have to be able to

live in both. And it's hard. It's really hard. But if you can do that, you can hopefully make improvements because you're trying to be better. You're trying to speak to your own and other people's better angels. And at the same time, you have to recognize that not everybody's a good guy. Some people are terrorists. Some people are good guy. Some people are terrorists. Some people are murderers. Some people are rapists. Some people will do things that you don't want to happen. And you have to also tackle that at the same time.

And immigration, countries need borders, man. That's something people used to agree about left and right. You know, I quoted Barack Obama talking about this. We need borders. Yeah, he was talking about that when he was running for president. He's saying something that would get Trump canceled today. Yeah. What do you think happened, Joe?

I don't know, but I don't know how it can keep happening. I don't know why anybody doesn't recognize that it's a problem and go, hey, let's sort this out. I don't know. You don't want to go full tinfoil hat. Nobody does. Nobody wants to, like, are they engineering? I mean, some people do. All the elves, some people do.

That's not important right now. If you just stop and think about all these converging factors, all these things that are happening simultaneously. Right. OK. All first of all, massive dip in the economy from the covid pandemic businesses closing. Then you have George Floyd. Then you have riots. Then you have defund the police. Then you have massive theft. And do you know how much more theft there is? Do you know how much more theft there is? Lowe's hardware store lost, Google this,

I think in 2022 they lost $900 million in theft. Yeah, just people walking into their stores and stealing drills and shit. Just stealing things. Because in some places you can get away with stealing as much as $900, and they're not even allowed to stop you. I mean, that is a recipe for chaos. See if that's true. I want to make sure that those things are true. This is new media.

We actually check the facts. And shout out to our friend Andrew Doyle and his new book, The New Puritans. Andrew's awesome. Did he ever get kicked off of Twitter? Did Tatiana McGrath get kicked off? Yeah, he got kicked off a couple of times, I think. Look at that. Shrink and theft loss is near $1 billion at Lowe's.

Here's how much it's costing other retailers. Yeah, so it's true. It's almost a billion dollars they lost. What does shrink mean? Shrink and theft loss. That's a good question. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know. Shrink and theft. Is shrink like internal theft or what does that mean? It says it's blaming it on shrink. What does that mean? Or items lost to factors. Oh, external or employee theft. Oh, okay.

External or employee. So that's okay. So what is the actual number? So it says it in there somewhere, I'm pretty sure. Target lost $219 million. I think it's slightly further down, Jamie, just a little bit. There you go, $997 million. $997 million.

They lost $796 million in 2021. Oh, my God. Imagine insuring them. Imagine insuring a store that you know is going to get robbed. But just imagine this, Joe. Actually, Constantine went to speak at this festival. It's a very prestigious festival in the UK called How the Light Gets In, right? And I have friends who go and speak there and go and watch it, debates.

Like I said, Constantine took part in a debate there. And one of my friends went to watch because his partner, she was speaking there and hosting debates. And I said to him, how was it, mate? And he said said do you know the thing that was really worrying i go what he goes and bear in mind these are some of the most educated people in the uk at least one of them per panel per debate went look until we abolish capitalism then we're never going to solve these problems and he's just just like, you're talking about genetics. Why are you talking about abolishing capitalism? But think about it like this. It's a virtue.

There's not a lot of science research that happens outside. Do you know what I mean? You need money to do research. Exactly. You think a scientist will get that? You know, the problem is they're so insulated in these university-like ecosystems. They're so insulated. If you're a professional academic, I mean, look, it's a noble thing.

It's an amazing thing to be a professor. It's an amazing thing to be educating kids and shaping minds and exposing them to great literature and mathematics and all the wonderful things that professors teach. But the reality of their existence is you go from being a high school student to a college university student to getting your master's degree, getting your PhD, teaching. You're constantly in this world, and that world is almost entirely left-wing,

like radically left-wing. Like what is the percentage of like far-left professors you almost even think when you think professor like far left it's like Catholic priest pedophile they're connected right in your head so you you hear by that you think far left professor John high talks about in in his book yeah on social social studies and stuff like anything to do with that. It's like nine to one or ten to one, sometimes a hundred to one. Yeah.

So then they're in that world where they're constantly being reinforced. Like these ideas are reinforced and never challenged. And almost, you know, ridiculously so. Like really bright people talk like they're in a cult. Ridiculously so like really bright people talk like they're in a cult like avoiding reality and bending truth to to placate whatever The new social norm is for anything. It's it's like it's it's bizarre to see and so Those people are always going to be in conflict with reality. So when they're like, you know, we should abolish capitalism like Like you live in a fucking playground like you are you talking about right yeah it's a good description you're not out there in the real world you're teaching kids

you're teaching kids at a playground and you're the god because you're the you're the professor with all the knowledge stop yeah no you can't it's never been done before stupid like communism never worked we tried we tried look at how that works to violence it leads to fucking authoritarianism it leads to dictatorships It leads to fucking authoritarianism. It leads to dictatorships. You've got to enforce people following all these rules. You have to. That's the point.

You have to use violence. You have to use violence to make that work. What Yeonmi Park talks about when she talks about her experience in North Korea, when she fled North Korea, she said they promised everyone that they would be able to feed everyone if they took over the land. That's how they got everyone's land. That's how they got everybody to give up. And now they're fucked.

And that is happening right now in 2023. The way Yeonmi Park describes North Korea is actually the way North Korea is right now. So don't think that that can't happen here. Don't think that can... They're regulating podcasts in Canada. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was reading about this, about this bill.

Because I woke up and, you know, we're jet lagged. So I woke up at ridiculous time. I went on the phone, which you should never do. Let's be honest. That is a bad way to start the day. It's not good. No. And then I was reading about what they're doing.

It's terrifying. So they want to bring in this bill whereby they regulate podcasts. So what they want to do is every podcast streamer or whatever it is, platform, that makes more than $10 million revenue, not profit, revenue, has to register with the Canadian government. They then want them to hand over information about their content and the people listening to the government. Imagine getting a hold of Alex Jones' email list. Probably a bunch of senators on there.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, imagine. The government can get that. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, imagine. And then, they're talking right now about, and maybe we're going to need to fact check this again, because I was reading it this morning, but basically they want it to promote Canadian, something to do with basically Canadian greatness, whatever it is they talk about it, and indigenous affairs. And you're like, oh, so they're going to say a number of things are un-canadian and then you can just silence them look what trudeau did with the truckers yeah

yeah terrifying we just had one of their guys on to talk about it not just the truckers but people who donated to the truckers got their bank accounts closed yeah yeah well that is wild yeah you got locked out of all of your money because you donated to a cause where you didn't think that People should have to take an experimental vaccine in order to be able to work to drive a truck But really really you get it you think that's okay Like that's so not okay the fact that those people aren't up in arms the whole country didn't freak out and demand the whole country didn't freak out and demand a fucking change like you can't have that's dictatorship stuff that's what that is it's banana republic stuff we do these calls with our top supporters and we have some in canada we have this lady who's been supporting us for years

and you know she's always fine and in the middle of this thing she was like i'm terrified like i'm not going to be able to eat because they they're going to shut down my bank account. God. Right? In Canada. It's so crazy that they think they could do that if people disagree with them. Because that's all they're doing. They're just disagreeing.

And they're supporting a protest. It should be. And it was a peaceful protest. Those people did it the right way. They just parked their trucks and they didn't block roads off. They didn't do anything fucked up But if you frame it that these people which is what how they were being framed as racist far, right? Well, look, yeah, you're giving money to a far-right racist organization. You're encouraging hate

Well, well the government has to step in we have to step in and we need to freeze everything because we need to make everything safe What was this most recent apology because they accidentally awarded a nazi yeah like what what happened i think so i think zelensky was visiting the canadian parliament and they got some guy who was a ukrainian inverted commas war veteran turned out he fought for the for the bad guys in that one oh Oh my god. Yeah I don't think they I don't think like the Zelensky or I don't know. I didn't know Yeah, he didn't know but so so imagine you're sitting in Parliament and everyone's like hey Let's do a you know stand up and give a round of applause for this war veteran

You're like yeah, and then you turns out you're applauding a Nazi. How old is this dude old? He probably doesn't even know You're applauding a Nazi. How old is this dude old? Imagine yeah, I mean how do you if you are a sane person? Like how do you deal with that fact that you committed all of these? heinous crimes. Yeah, if you're living in that time, do you think it's just everyone's doing it and you just get sucked into the cult and you're scared or you believe it? Is it that easy for human beings to other people?

Is it because it was a different time and people just didn't have as much exposure to knowledge as they do today, and that wouldn't be as possible today. I hate to think that that's a possible – because there's always been times in history where people committed genocide. There's always been times in history where people have decided that this other group, and oftentimes other groups that look exactly like they do, right?

Those are the bad people. Whether it's because of religion or a line they drew on the dirt, they've decided that those people are worth exterminating. And those stories are fucking horrific. And that the Nazi Germany one is just the latest one. It's just the one that we call upon. But, you know, just think about what the Mongols did. You know, that's in the in twelve hundred.

Think about what they did. They just sacked entire cities, just killed everybody, piled them up in big fucking stacks, lit everything on fire, took all the women, and they just left town. And they did that all over Europe, all over Asia. They did it all over.

They've ran everything. They killed something in the neighborhood of 10% of the world's population was murdered during Genghis Khan's era. So much so that the carbon footprint of human beings on earth got lower. He was progressive. That's how many people he killed. Yeah.

You know, there's a lot of historians in Russia who say that many of the reasons the way Russian people are the way they are. And there's a lot of trauma in society that's carrying on is from that period we have a lot of words in Russian for cruelty and all that sort of thing that come from that period completely makes sense completely makes sense I mean just imagine the horror of a gigantic army of men on horseback intent on murdering everyone in front of them and that that was consistent with the era it was normal stuff that was like oh the mongols are here we're fucked you know like that was that was that's a thing that human beings have always done for some strange reason they've always done that

and the thing the thing about today is as much as we know about humans and much access technology we have the interconnectivity that we have with each other there's still war and no one if you had to put your money if you're a gambler and uh within 10 years will there be no war on earth what kind of odds am i getting yeah you know because for sure there's gonna be something popping off somewhere we're bands of chimps man that's what we are we're bands of chimps and chimps go to war and so do we absolutely but then there's also the flip side of it where there are like you know i always tell this story because to me it's this is a story of my grandfather so my grandfather in the second world war he used to he was a master joiner which is the highest level of

carpenter you could get and he used to work in a factory in manchester on the mosquito plants and the the fascinating thing about the mosquito was it was the only airplane it was a fighter airplane and was made entirely out of wood whoa yeah so it was because a messier smith was very lumbering it was very heavy it was a great fighter plane but it wasn't very nimble and the mosquito was and it was so and he was making mosquito so he was exempt from going to war and he i think it was 1941 and he was a smart guy and he was following what was happening and he like i said he was exempt because he was part of the war for a very important part he resigned his position at the factory, enlisted to go and join.

Had a baby, my aunt Patricia, who was probably around one or two years old, married. And he enlisted to go and fight in the war, knowing full well that there was a very significant chance that he wouldn't come back. Yet he risked his life because he knew that there was something more important. And whilst we focus on the bad, there's also incredible people, like everyday people, like from that generation who just went, no, this is wrong. And I need to stand up and I need to do something. And there is something greater than me. So there is that aspect of humanity as well.

That does exist. But I think people were more resilient then because life was more difficult. And there is something greater than me. So there is that aspect of humanity as well. That does exist. But I think people were more resilient then because life was more difficult. I think it's great that we've managed to make starvation one of the least of our concerns in this country at this point in time. But along the way, I think we've made it so easy to survive for so many people that we've kind of lost resolve. And it must have been horrible to live back then, to live during the time of World War I. I mean, imagine how hard life was back then. Life was fucking hard.

But those are the type of people that you need if you're going to have a war. We don't have that many of those now. Not like that. That was probably like, you've seen those videos. I don't know if you have, but like there's physical fitness classes in the 1960s in America and they all look like little athletes. They're all doing monkey bars and shit. Like everybody can, everybody's working out. They're all doing monkey bars and shit. Everybody's working out. They all look fit. If you tried to have a video like that today, you'd have some blue-haired

slobs falling down and breaking their arms. How many people are resilient today? It's less. There's a lot more people, but the percentage of resilient people is less. Well, Jamie, you might be able to look this up. I think there was an article recently about the fact that the U.S. Army is having trouble recruiting people because they're just not physically capable. They're struggling. Yeah. And that wouldn't just be the U.S. It would be a lot of places. Also, the Army's kind of going woke.

Oh, man. And this is the thing we've been talking about, right, man? It's like inclusion is really important when you're killing folks. Can we just focus on what fucking works? can we focus on what works right i want the army to be good at killing the enemy i don't give a fuck about how diverse they are right imagine if the ufc had to have diversity do you know what a problem that would

be yeah we had like to have a certain amount of trans folks a certain amount of that would work well in the women's division. If you only had... If you had numbers you had to achieve. It wasn't the best fighters. It was just who meets certain criteria. There's going to be a bunch of people that get murdered. They're going to get thrown in with the real ones. There's going to be a certain percentage of people

that are just there because they're awesome. Then a certain percentage of people that they have to hire in order to meet these DEI standards. Jamie, can I ask a favor man? Would you mind bringing up RAF Diversity UK? You're gonna- It's a beautiful story. This is a beautiful story. What happened?

Mate, this is- Just look up for male white, useless male white pilots. Look that one up. Useless male white pilots? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that a quote? Yeah, that's a quote from their report. They were like, you know what? We're not hiring any more white men to fly planes. What a good idea.

Yeah. Definitely don't hire the people that are the best at it. No. Why would you? Whether they're white or black or Asian. No, just don't hire white ones. Royal Air Force unlawfully discriminated against white male recruits in bid to boost diversity. Dude, you want the best.

Whoever the fuck they are, whether they're white or South American or Indian, you want the best. Who cares? No one cares. You want people who fly the planes the best, right? Only the best. And this is like controversial now. It's a war plane.

Could you imagine? Imagine if like, again, it goes back to the MMA fighters. Imagine if like, you know, like the UK had one representative that was supposed to be fighting Francis Ngannou. You know what I'm saying? Don't pick me. You know, you have one person that's supposed to step up and fight that guy. And well, it says the right move is to, you know, send in a non-binary woman yeah because they don't

get represented in the ufc like okay what the fuck are you talking about this is she's representing the uk we need someone to beat him man it's it comes to a point and and this is where we talk about the university campus right you can have these demented ideas on a university campus and all they are is an exercise in intellectual masturbation when you come down to it when you break it down to its purest sense right and in a way that's fine what's wrong with having stupid ideas and debating and believing it but the problem is is when you start to implement it in the real world where there is such a thing as reality right that's when the rubber hits the road and things really start going

wrong that's when things go western that's what we like to call it out here right things got western right i will say as well and i think you know we've been talking about social media i think social media is a big part of this i don't know if you've seen the graphs but basically what happens in 2013 2014 newspaper articles just start, all this social justice bullshit, it just goes through the sky. And not just in the US and the UK, it's Qatar, it's every country in the world. So I think social media rewards ideas that sound good.

It does, but it also awards echo chambers. That's a big part of it. Just like we're talking about universities, that the echo chambers on the right wing online are universities, the echo chambers on the right wing online are just like the echo chambers on the left wing. It rewards that. Everybody looks for their favorite commenters who jump on their threads and comment on each and every one

and back them up on these things, and they look at all the likes and, yeah, kick an ass. Yeah. But my favorite story of this year, and this is one that I love so much, it's by a beautiful woman, Joe, called Isla Bryson. Oh, this is a great story. This, I remember last time I was at your club, The Mothership,

we touched on it briefly when you and I were talking, but this, to me, is the most beautiful story of a beautiful woman living her best life. James, we're going to need to see a photo of this beautiful woman. Joe, you're happily married. I don't remember you bringing this up. Right. So this happened in Scotland.

Yeah. So what is the story? Okay. So there's a two-time male rapist called Adam Graham. Convicted male rapist, right? And then, just before he was going to be sent to prison, he got what Constantine and I like to call

rapid-onset prison dysphoria. Prison onset. You put it to the line, but it's prison onset gender dysphoria. This is the guy. So now he's a woman in a woman's prison? Yeah. They put him in a woman's prison. There's a clitoris job, if you're wondering. They're doing that in America, too. Yeah. There's

quite a few. There's one person that identifies a woman went to jail and got two people pregnant in jail like Like what? It just seems so silly and I'm as liberal as you can get but I'm not on board with that Well, I'm as liberal as you can get to that's what's so crazy It's like they push it so far to cuckoo land that any rejection of any of these outrageously stupid ideas becomes far right. Yeah. You're far right if you don't think a guy with a regular dick who has been straight his whole life should be able to identify as a woman and go into a women's prison and be with women.

Like, come on. And this guy's a rapist. He's a threat. We know he's a threat. It's so crazy. It's just so crazy that they'll take it all the way to prison. And then you've got politicians who, on Question Time, which is our most prestigious political debate show, they had a member of the SNP, because this happened in Scotland, so this is a member of the Scottish National Party, and this

SNP member was asked, is Isla Graham male or female? And you know what she responded to this woman? She went, they're a rapist. Refused to even acknowledge that it's a male. That it's a man.

What a weird world. So weird. Isn't it? I would have never imagined. If you came to me in 2013 and said, guess what's going to be a crazy subject 10 years from now? Guys who just say they're women and they put them in women's prisons. What? Come on.

That can't be a thing. Imagine if you had to dress up like a woman for a whole year in order for it to be legit. There was a rule. You could do it, but you had to dress up like a whole year. So criminals just started dressing up like women. And that became the thing. You know how guys like to sag?

That's how they wear their pants in prison. So they like to sag. It's part of the thing. What if that becomes the thing? There's only one way to get locked up with women. You've got to dress like a woman all the time. So you've got to dress like a woman for a whole year in order to be accepted. It would be the new style of just people who are just like, I'm a criminal.

I don't give a fuck. This is what I do. If I get arrested, at least I'm going to get arrested with women. Yeah. Guys will start wearing dresses. And I'll be honest with you, man. I don't want to be talking about trans my whole life whole life. I don't you have to you have no choice I you will comply. I know I will comply. We will freeze your bank

I don't want to be talking about the ship, but when this is happening what we supposed to do We're just supposed to sit there and pretend it's not happening Well, if you have any opinion other than what you're supposed to have then you're some kind of a terrible person a transphobe that's nuts because there's always room for crazy you got to leave room for crazy you got to leave room for crazy in all groups of people yeah including trans people and if you don't if you try to pretend that you know you have this this group that anybody can join and that these are new rules, and we're all living in Narnia now Come on Come on. There's always gonna be crazy people of course the Emperor's fucking naked man Emperor's naked as fuck and he's got a hard-on

Right there. Yeah, I want access to the female changing Come this way, madam. And you're a bigot, if you don't agree. Imagine Francis Ngannou was like, you know what? I'm a woman. I wonder what percentage of people with kids believe that versus people who don't have kids. That's an interesting... Right. Because I wonder if so many...

There's so many people that have ideas, people that don't have children, they have ideas that I think... They just have this ideology that they subscribe to, but with no consequences for anyone that's really young that they love and care about. And then when they have kids and then there's someone young they love and care about, you start looking at the world as a much more dangerous place. You start saying, oh, these people are like little kids. Like there was some little girl got kidnapped really recently. They found – they used geo-tracking of cell phones and shit and the person's fingerprints from the ransom note and they got her back pretty quickly luckily. But a nine-year-old girl just gets kidnapped. Like there's people like that in the world. And when you have children, you think like that.

Like someone could steal your kids. Like that's real. Someone could hurt your kids. And someone could go in the locker room and watch your kid go to the bathroom because they decide that they're a girl. And that doesn't mean that there's not people that are legitimately trans and identify as women and that's who they are and they're not perverts and they're not creeps. Of course. Of course that exists too. But you're opening the door.

If someone just says, I'm trans, I can use that restroom. You're opening the door for perverts. You 100% most certainly are. This doesn't deny the existence of trans people. But we have to be honest about what could possibly happen. That's why if people are uncomfortable with biological males walking around female locker rooms, it's because some people are liars and they're con artists and they're not really It's this person that's like been trapped in a man's body their whole life

They're fucking perverts and they want to be around kids or they want to be around women They want to make them uncomfortable They want people to stare at their dick while they walk around and know that they can't say anything about it. That's real, too Sure, that's real too. This doesn't discount the the problem that trans people have with integrating into society and being accepted. That's real too. That's real too. But you have to understand that if you just have this blanket policy where no one can question anything about this stuff, you're opening the door to abuse. Right.

Yeah. And you have a front door in your house not because you think everyone is going to come and steal shit from your house but you know some people will so you have to put certain things in place to protect yourself and your family it's the most obvious thing man well it's just there's no screening in women's bathrooms like you don't know whether someone's a creep

you have no idea it's not like getting into a fucking a job where they have to do a background check on you it's not like getting into a fucking job where they have to do a background check on you. It's not like applying for some top secret position where they have to make sure that you're someone who can be trusted with information. No, it's like a bathroom. So it could be like someone just out of jail, puts on a dress, goes into a women's room.

I mean, that's what we're accepting today. That is a possibility. And women that feel vulnerable in those situations are fucking terrified, and rightfully so, because if they do encounter something like that, they get no support. No one will say anything. No one will take your side. You saw what happened with that thing that happened in Hollywood at that massage parlor? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, in California. Bonkers, man. Someone who had a history of being a sex offender, walking around naked in the women's room, they complained then also in this protest there It's like come on kids man going to California and we love this country as you know we traveled all around it you should motherfucker We love it rule Only an American would say Supposed to be like yes or what my shit. It's not too bad We put up flags everywhere yeah would say that. The British person would be like, yeah, it's all right, mate, it's all right. It's not too bad. America! Fuck yeah! We put up flags everywhere.

Yeah. I've got one right there. Yeah. I mean, they're small in California. The California flag is about this big. People started accusing me

of being right-wing when I had that flag behind me. Oh, really? That very flag. Yeah, it's cool. It's a cool art piece. I love it. That used to be the backdrop.

And people criticized, they were saying, he's right-wing. He's a right-winger now. We've got an American flag. People think American flag is right-wing. God, that's all of us, kids. That's the whole batch of us.

You know, we're supposed to be in this together. Yeah, and this is, you know... But California, man, what you see... I mean, it's many American cities, actually, sadly. But what you see in California... People go, it's like a third world country. I grew up in several third world countries. I did not see that.

Well, you were talking about the encampments, the homeless encampments. But also the crime, the way that people are. I mean, we've driven around places where you just see people. You don't even know if they're alive. Yeah. That's good drugs. You get the good stuff. You just nap anywhere.

Like, fuck the world. i'm sleeping on this oh man this potted plant yeah yeah it's not good man and i don't know how that snaps back either yeah i wouldn't want to be the governor imagine that imagine being the mayor of los angeles or the governor california trying to clean that mess up but somebody's got to do it joe it's got to be there's got to be a point now where ordinary rational people just go, you know what, mate? Enough's enough. Or AI.

We just farm it off to AI. AI is your new governor. It eliminates bias. Oh, it doesn't eliminate bias. AI follows the rule of the law. Oh, boy. AI will just figure out how to get rid of the homeless people. They're going to shoot one every night until they all quit.

They're like those robot dogs that are just going to show up on Venice Beach and just gun one person down. We will be back tomorrow. We will shoot one person every night until this beach is cleaned. And then they just drive into the center of it and shoot people. So it's not even just the people on the outside. So no one's safe. Tell you what, that TV show would get great ratings. It would.

That's an episode of Black Mirror, I bet. Did you ever see that one heavy metal where the robot dog is chasing this lady? No. Oh, my God, it's terrifying. It's terrifying today, too, when you watch those Boston Dynamic videos where they show those DARPA robots. Oh, yeah. Those things are so crazy.

They got DARPA cheetahs and shit and all these really nutty robots they're working on that you could do backflips and they could do parkour. They're making super robots. And when those motherfuckers decide to reinforce the will of AI and just roam to the streets like that fucking Will Smith movie, iRobot.

We're not far away from that, man. That might be our best bet. That might be what gives us hope is that AI takes over government and they take over allocation of funds. I can't tell if you're being serious or you're joking, man. I'm kind of serious. I'm kind of serious. That's how they eliminate corruption because they're not terrified of the corporations

and their money because AI will control all the money. Go and chat GPT and try to ask it some questions about trans you're gonna oh boy that is that thing is um it's a little woke yeah it's a little woke it's also it will criticize certain people but not criticize others yeah yeah it's interesting it uh it also won't say anything nice about donald trump really yeah didn't someone do something like that they tried say say something good about trump and why he'd make a great president Donald Trump. Really? Yeah. Didn't someone do something like that? They tried to say, say something good about Trump and why he'd make a great president. I wonder what it says. Let's find out in real time. Cause somebody told me that,

but I always wonder, you know, like, are you using the same program? Are you using the older program or the new, what is now 4.5.5 you know and then what they're saying is when five comes out it's going to be and like each one of them is exponential they're more and more complex their their answers are better they can code websites in seconds they can do figure things out that you can never figure out if you had a lifetime of studying over books figure things out instantaneously we're real real close to having like full-on training wheels for life. Just like you don't remember phone numbers anymore because they're all in your phone. Donald Trump has a talent for engaging with and energizing his supporters.

His ability to connect with a large segment of American population and inspire passionate loyalty is noteworthy. Additionally, his presidency marked a period of significant policy changes, including tax reform and criminal justice reform, which had lasting impacts in the United States. It's important to remember that different people have varying perspective on political figures and recognizing their positive attributes can foster constructive dialogue. You should go into politics, man. That's pretty good.

That's a great answer. So that's Chad GPT, Jamie? Yeah. That's a great answer. So that's chat GPT Jamie That's a great answer. Yeah, Chad GPT is a right-wing bigots That's why chat GPT should govern us. Yeah, see what I'm saying? Like it's basically just echoed what we've been saying man I would have chat GPT is that smart and what if it understands that the policies were actually effective? You know the thing that really worries me about AI, it's that it's going to get rid of low skilled labor. Yeah.

That employs a hell of a lot of people, particularly a hell of a lot of men in this country. I saw this great clip from Tucker Carlson where he was going, you know, we're talking about AI. But AI is going to bring in driverless cars. It's going to bring in driverless lorries. is going to bring in driverless cars. It's going to bring in driverless lorries. Think about how many men in the US at the moment are employed in the driving industry. What's going to happen when all of those men

become redundant, there are no jobs, they're at home, and he goes, I'm going to be honest with you, men without direction, men without jobs, earning without responsibility, that doesn't end well. What are we going do then? We're gonna transition all of them Anybody's got a problem just like we've found out that men create all the problems. We're just gonna turn you into a woman Yeah, there you go

Instead of putting all the men in prison we just turn all of them into women fantastic, well We solved it right here. That's how we, instead of putting all the men in prison, we just turn all of them into women. Fantastic. Well, you know what? I don't have a counter argument to that. And this is the thing that scares me, is like before COVID, I used to think of myself as pretty anti-conspiratorial. But during COVID and post-COVID,

I've realized I'm becoming more and more conspiratorial as I realized that we were being lied to. Well, there most certainly are real conspiracies. The problem is no one wants to feel stupid. And you don't want to even entertain conspiracy theories because there's dumb ones out there. So you get

connected to all the dumb ones. And you can get connected to those the dumb ones you know and you can get connected to those if you're not paying attention but there's real ones there's real there's a lot of them and they've always existed what's your favorite conspiracy theory the favorites always the war ones because it's just so crazy that they'll just lie to get us into wars and that it's always been a thing you know Hitler burned the Reichstag and Nero burned Rome and, you know, the Gulf of Tonkin incident

and the Operation Northwoods thing that they planned that was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and vetoed by Kennedy. Were they going to arm Cuban friendlies and have them attack Guantanamo Bay and blow up a jetliner and blame it on Cuba?

They were going to do some wild shit to try to get us to go to war with Cuba. Those are the most fascinating to me because they, there are a bunch of people at high level positions in the government that are conspiring to get us to go to war. And this is what Eisenhower warned us about at the end of his presidency. He warned about the military industrial complex. It was a fascinating speech. And if you think about it now, it's like, God damn, was he right? That to me is the most fascinating because it seems like there's just this machine that's always been running society.

But we've kind of pretended it wasn't. Pretended that wasn't the case and pretended it wasn't this massive industry that requires war in order to feed itself. That to me is the wildest one. That and then UFOs. The UFO one, though, man, I'm kind of sour on it lately. Really? Yeah, because they keep talking about it.

Yeah, the more they talk about it and not show me anything and the more they have whistleblowers and all this, the more I'm like, why do I feel like I'm being fucked with? Why do I feel like there's something going on why do i feel like this is a juicy distraction why do i feel like because it always happens in these military areas why why do i have a feeling like you guys have developed some insane technology that people aren't aware of i I mean, and it might even not be a physical thing, right? It might be something they can project from satellites. Maybe it's some sort of a hologram.

Maybe it's, I mean, who knows what the fuck it is? Maybe it is from another planet. Maybe there are interdimensional beings that occasionally visit us, and they always have. But that sounds, it it sounds goofy but the problem is if something as crazy as alien life visited us wouldn't it just seem fake that's the other thing I tussle with I'm like when it even if they really were having actual disclosure they really are having congressional hearings about whether or

not these things are ours or whether or not there's any crashed ufos that the government has retrieved is there really a program where they retrieve crashed ufos and back engineer them is that real so if it is real how long has this been going on and you guys are just telling us now why if that's real that changes everything it changes everything about the way we interact with the universe. That we're like little children, and they're just keeping an eye on us, like chimp empire, like, be careful over there. Don't do anything nutty.

Be careful. Let's just watch them. We'll just watch them as they evolve and eventually travel into the cosmos like all the other aliens. You know, there is an argument to be said for not telling the truth have you ever heard the story of war of the worlds when it was broadcast on the radio and it created panda pandemonium because people thought it was a news broadcast and you know everybody you know loads of people lost their minds apparently i just read recently that that was really overblown and that was a lot of propaganda and a lot of that was like the narrative that they put out to show

the success of that radio show that most people were aware that it was a radio program like a fiction really yeah apparently there wasn't any suicides I thought there's a bunch of suicides people killed themselves did when didn't we pull that up recently we did right yeah I? Yeah, I think Jamie found it, actually. We've always been saying that, that it created mass pandemonium and chaos, but apparently that's not really accurate, or at least might not be accurate.

Have you heard of the one about Hitler and Stalin? Which one? Well, the idea is, and I'm not into a lot of conspiracy theories but this one I having read a lot various historians talk about I actually genuinely think could could be could be real it's the idea that Stalin encouraged Hitler supported him which he did I mean they signed a non-aggression treaty the Soviet Union funded Germany send them grain and all sorts of other things the idea is that Stalin wanted Hitler to start a big European war so that once he was all done he could come in and sweep over the ashes which which makes a lot of sense because

the communist idea was you can't make the shit work unless everybody gets it that was the idea of communism right you can't you can't have communism in one country you have to spread it around the world. And they thought, and they said this openly, the communists, that the best way to do that is to have a world war, and then you can spread the ideas as a result of that. God damn, people have always been crazy. They've always been insane.

Imagine someone, like, that's your idea. Like, what are you going to do today? I'm going to go play golf with Ron White. What are you going to do? I think I'm going to play golf with Ron White. What are you going to do? I think I'm going to start a war so I can take over Europe. Right. Yeah. But the terrifying thing is there's always been those dudes.

Always. And there always will be. There always will be. But we don't want to think they're here now. But the thing is, for them, you could argue it's rational, right? How do you best secure the future of your people? You can rationalize it in your head. How do you best secure the future of your people? You can rationalize it in your head. How do you best secure the future of your people?

Well, the best way, North America, right, is controlled by the United States, and it's safe because of it, right? You have Canada to your north. You have Mexico. These countries are all kind of in your orbit. You've got them under control. You're safe. What's the safest way for Russia or the Soviet Union to do that? It's to control the entirety of their continent.

So you can rationalize anything if you're in that position. I'm looking after my people. It's not that hard You know, we are able to rationalize the most horrific shit in our heads if we really want to Yeah, and and we always have and we always have and we always will yeah Yeah, we always will and we've always wanted to build empires. We've been building empires from And we always will. And we've always wanted to build empires. We've been building empires from year dot. Everybody builds empires.

But do you think that is also what we're talking about earlier, a part of our operating system? Like there's always going to be these conquerors and then the resistance of the conquerors. And through this back and forth, the society evolves. Yeah. And I think I sometimes think like speaking of aliens, what would it be like if you look down on planet Earth? Right. What do you see if you actually look? You see these bands of chimps with every fucking weapon that they could possibly invent pointed at each other.

That's what we are. Yeah. That's what we are. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what also you'd see, though? You'd see if you were really objective, like what does this species do? They make better things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what also you'd see, though? You'd see if you were really objective, like what does this species do? They make better things. Yeah.

That's what they do. Even in Star Wars, they never made anything better. Go back to like fucking Luke Skywalker, like the first movie, Star Wars, and then to the last movie. They basically have the same weapons. Yeah. Same fucking light speed capabilities, same problems with their spaceships. They didn't get any better. We get better constantly.

We're constantly obsessed with innovation. And if you just looked at the species as a whole, like what is it doing? It's making better stuff. And even the things that are weird about it, like this desire for material possessions, well, one of the things that does is it facilitates consumerism. It facilitates people buying things. That facilitates innovation. You got to sell more things to people. I got to get you to buy a new TV. You already have a TV. I got a better TV. And this is constant, whether it's computers or cars or whatever it is that we make, everything's better. I think,

and when you combine that with this new emergence of AI and when you see what's possible with quantum computing and what they're projecting for the implementation of that kind of technology, we're looking at another life form. We're building another life form. We're going to build an artificial life form that's way superior to us. We're the electronic caterpillar that is building the cocoon. And we're never going to be able to stop it because there was this document...

You can't stop it. You can't stop it because there was this document that was signed, I think it was signed by Elon as well, requesting that there's a moratorium on AI. Get the fuck out of here. You think China's going to sign that? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead, do that. It's a mad race, just like the fucking, you know, trying to figure out who that. We're like, it's a mad race. Just like the fucking, you know,

trying to figure out who makes the nuclear bomb first. It's a mad race. Right, yeah. Because we know that if we don't do it, other people will, and then they will have the upper hand. And once another group has the upper hand over you, if you just look at history,

it doesn't end well for the weaker group. Yeah, especially with this one. If you could make a superior life form that can figure out how to... Just think about what GPT can do in terms of the average person with no coding could just instantly make a website.

You can get answers to problems. You instantly can get information and explain to you how to do very detailed and specific things like that. That's just the beginning. It's going to be so much better than you and it's going to make a better version of it really quickly.

If you give it the ability to create, I mean, why isn't that engineerable? It seems like it could. If you could engineer creativity into some super intelligent artificial thing that you've created, it seems like that's what we do we just think we do all these other things because that moves us closer and closer towards this but ultimately when that does happen all that other stuff would be bullshit the pyramids the fucking airplane the invention of the iphone nonsense it's all nonsense compared to this life form that we're about to make so let us get caught up in fucking whether or not a

Trans person should be able to play in women's sports or whether or not climate change is so real we need to bury trees Let's get Let's let's pay attention to what's really going on We're about to give birth to a fucking super intelligent life form It's gonna take over earth and we're either we to merge with it or going to be consumed by it. Whoa. You know what the Eater robot is? You ever heard of that?

No. The Eater robot is, I think this is a DARPA program as well. They've developed a robot that is fueled by biological fuel, like biological waste, like bodies. Like you can use it on a battlefield and it could consume bodies. What? Yeah. It consumes things for fuel.

Yeah. It can consume plants, I think, too. But the implication is when they said biological, I was like, oh, Jesus. When you say biological, I don't think plants. I think like human beings, like dead bodies on a battlefield. Like if you have a robot that kills people and eats them, and that's how it fuels itself, you don't need to charge it. It just goes on whatever energy it extracts from consuming flesh.

I'm not an expert, Joe, but I can see how this could go wrong. Pull up E-A-T-R. Pull up E-A-T-R pull up E-A-T-R robot I think it's real dude I think it's real well yeah the Wikipedia said everything you were saying and then it also included chicken fat

was labeled as well oh yeah just chicken fat guys it's not dead people from some fucking bomb we dropped yeah the purpose of the energetically autonomous tactical robot, Eater, just the fact they call it Eater, patent pending, guys. Hang on for that. We'll make a big announcement when the patent comes through.

Project is developed and demonstrate an autonomous robot platform able to perform long range, long endurance missions without the need for manual or conventional refueling, which would otherwise preclude the ability of the robot to perform such missions. The system obtains its energy by foraging, engaging in biologically-inspired, organism-like energy-harvesting behavior, which is the equivalent of eating. It fucking eats things. It can find, ingest, and extract energy from biomass in the environment and

other organically based energy sources as well as use conventional and alternative fuels such as gasoline, so it can eat everything. It eats everything. Gasoline, heavy fuel, kerosene, diesel, propane, coal, cooking oil, and solar when suitable.

In addition to missions requiring long range long endurance ability the eater can provide direct support to combat units without requiring labor or material logistics support for refueling because it eats the bodies on the field kids. At least it's great for its own energy while the unit rested or remain in position. Say what you like about the Terminator. At least it didn't fucking eat you. This is so crazy. What a good idea, though.

I mean. It's a good idea. Because otherwise, like, those bodies are just going to sit there. Yeah. What do you want to do? You want to feed the wolves? Feed the vultures? Or feed your robots and win this fucking war, kids?

Win this war for America. This is the most uplifting episode of the Joe Rogan experience ever How wild is that? How wild is that? That's fucking wild That's a real thing That is But a good idea, right? If you were a sociopath like that's I mean if you want to make a war machine look

I shouldn't even say sociopath if you want to make something that saves soldiers lives How about a fucking robot? Robot that fights and eats bodies But it comes to the point it comes to the point, right? Why don't we engineer werewolves? Why don't you let werewolves loose? But you look at all of this stuff and you then go, well, then what's the purpose of us? Yeah.

You know, that's the fundamental question here. Because the most important thing in life for any human being is to have a purpose whatever that purpose is why is that though why is that because it gives you a reason to get up in the morning it gives you a reason to do what you do it gives you a reason to move forward the worst thing for a human being to have is no purpose to have a lack of purpose because then you feel empty and hopeless yeah we talk about a crisis of meaning in the West particularly. I mean, that's what it is, right? A lot of people not having purpose.

And then it plays into what we were talking about earlier, which is you go on social media and you can attack somebody, and that gives you power, that gives you meaning. Yeah, that is a thing that people connect themselves to. They get meaning out of destroying other people. Yeah. It's really fascinating. Yeah, because that's your ideology, and your team wins.

Especially if you feel justified in doing so. Yeah. The person disagrees with you, supports some other candidates, supports some ideas you don't like because pro-life is this, is that. And you're morally superior because they disagree with you. Yeah, you're morally superior because I forget who was talking to David Pakman. Someone was talking to David Pakman and they brought up this idea of if you were alive and Hitler was there was an election with Hitler and you knew that you could stop Hitler from being elected, you would do whatever the fuck you could morally. And that that is often the way they portray Trump, which justifies people doing everything and anything they can. Throw every lawsuit at his direction.

Don't even look at the optics of it. And don't look at the possibility that you're setting a precedent and then some right-wing person, including Trump if he gets into office, can now do this to you. The weapons you unleash will be used against you. They always will be. They always have been. That's why generally it's good for society to have certain rules about like we don't go there. We do not deperson our opponents we do not rig elections we this is democracy relies on the consent of

the losers the moment you lose that you're fucked yeah you're fucked yeah and that's what's spooky is that this this sort of thought that everyone has now or that a lot of people have now that it's one side has to win or it's all gonna fall apart but I feel like if either side wins it's gonna be chaos right now we're at a boiling point yeah we're at a crazy boiling point I think that this year is the calm before the storm oh Jesus son it's gonna get worse yeah I can't get better what if they just legalize mushroom 2024 you think that's gonna get legalized mushrooms maybe? What if they just legalize mushrooms? 2024, you think that's going to... I mean, legalize mushrooms, maybe. What if they just put a... Everybody goes, hey, I just did these mushrooms.

I've got some thoughts. You know, maybe we're spinning our fucking wheels here, kids. Yeah, well, we banned magic mushrooms in 2005, even though they grow naturally. What a good move to do it so late. When everybody had already figured out they were awesome. Yeah. You know, it's not like you're not doing it in 1950

after you watch Reefer Madness. Like, what? The mushrooms, too. Are those legal? Get rid of them. No, in this country, they did it in 1970. Really? Yeah, it was to break up the anti-war movement.

It was essentially to break up the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. What they did is they made a sweeping group of drugs illegal, Schedule 1. And that's also part of what MKUltra was doing by allegedly encouraging and training Manson. That's the Tom O'Neill book, Chaos, which is a fascinating story. What they were doing was trying to stop the anti-war movement. And one of the best ways is to lock all these people up for drugs. Lock all these people up.

Make everything illegal and just start locking them up. Lock them up for weed. Lock them up for mushrooms, whatever they have. So they made all these sweeping illegalizations, including things that weren't even psychoactive. They made them illegal. But isn't it bizarre that the UK government made magic? And by the way, that was a left-wing government. That was a Labour government.

It was a left government. They made magic mushrooms illegal in 2005. And magic mushrooms grow in every field in the UK. How does that work? Yeah. Well, so the poppies grow naturally too right and that's heroin but you literally pick a mushroom you dry it or you can eat it fresh yeah you eat it fresh yeah and then you it will it will it will create a psychoactive and it might be the source of many

religious experiences it might be the source of many many stories that people have had about encounter i mean this is like so much ancient religious artwork that centers around mushrooms might be the source of many, many stories that people have had about encountering. I mean, there's like so much ancient religious artwork that centers around mushrooms, including all the old depictions of Christmas. All the old depictions of Christmas involve the Amanita muscaria mushroom and elves, all of them. And that's a psychoactive mushroom. That's the mushroom that John Marco Allegro wrote about when he wrote that book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.

He was a guy who deciphered the Dead Sea Scrolls. He worked on them for 14 years, and it was his conclusion afterwards. He wrote a book about it called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. His conclusion was that the entire Christian religion was probably a misunderstanding. What it was really originally all about was fertility rituals and mushroom rituals. It was about the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms that brought you to God and fertility rituals because having children back then was imperative. Everybody died.

Everybody fucking died. Nobody lived. Got an infection, dead. Broke your leg, dead. So it was hard times back then. And so it's probably the root of so many religious experiences. They believe it's the root of the Eleusinian mysteries. That's Brian Murr-Orescu's book, The Immortality Key, where these people would travel to Eleusis and partake in this ritual

where they drank wine, where now they know for sure those wine vessels, they've now tested them and found that they have ergot in them. So these people are tripping balls. They've opened up a field of study at Harvard about this now. You know, the other thing that I find really interesting is as our society becomes more godless and we become more secular, we've started to embrace things like ayahuasca as experiences. Because there is still that deep-rooted need within us to have a psychedelic slash religious experience. We need it. We crave it.

Yeah, we crave it. And that's also the root of wokeness. I think it's very much religious. And I think also right-wing authoritarianism, too. I think it's very much almost like a religious thing. It's like they believe there's only one ideology, there's only one way. And that way is the right way and the good way. And there's, there's a lot of like Mark Andreessen laid it out that it's very much like a

cult and that there's a separation. They take you away from people who disagree, take you away from your family, isolate you. There's a, people are cast, cast, um,

cast out of the group. If they violate any of these very rigid principles and It's a lot of fear a lot of fear involved in it's very aggressive people that are Involved in a very aggressive a very aggressive in enforcing their ideas on other people and wanting other people to comply with their ideas much Like proselytizing yeah, and there's a very active disinterest in truth Yeah, very active and that that is a very cult-like thing, man. It's like, because it's hard to form a cult around the truth because truth is complicated.

It's shades of gray. You're not going to get the exact truth. You know, you're working at it. We can sit and have a long conversation and we disagree and agree. Well, what about if I just gave you the way? This is what you do. This is what you say. This is what you do. This is what you say. This is what you believe.

This is what you follow. And if you don't, we cast you out. So don't be that guy. You don't want to be that guy. You don't want to be that guy. Absolutely don't. Because we're hardwired to think that the moment we're that guy, we get extradited from the tribe. We're done.

We're dead in the savannah. That was it. You're over. You know, there's some research that says that that's why almost everybody has a fear of public speaking. Because historically, in the ancestral environment, if you were in front of a group of your peers and they were all silent, that was usually not a good place to be. And if you had to explain yourself to them, you had to speak to them, you fucked up. Yeah. Yeah, William Cummings told me about that.

I was like, oh, that completely makes sense yeah that completely makes sense it's why dying on your arms is a comedian any public shame yeah anything that happens to you in front of people losing something in front of people will they get to cheer that you lost oh man painful yeah painful for people. But the thing is, the weird thing about when you do comedy and you do die, it actually isn't as bad as you thought at the same time. Do you know what I mean? Oh, that depends.

I've seen some. I've been a part of some horrible bombings. Especially early in my career. They still wake up in the middle of the night and go, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, but you know what it is? It's because everybody can talk. So why should you be able to talk?

You're not doing something like really special, like playing guitar that I can't do. You're not juggling. You're not doing something extraordinary that I know I can't do. So if I go see someone play guitar, it's awesome. I can't play guitar at all. So it's cool to watch i can talk you can talk everyone can talk so everybody watches someone talk that sucks at it and go this sucks i could do better than this guy yeah so everybody has that moment in their life where they've been funny

everybody said that one zinger that one time yeah and everybody talks about it remember when you said that bob you know yeah every now and then you catch the lightning in a bottle yeah but to be able to do it on stage you know it's it's a tricky thing because it seems like you're just talking but there's a lot going on it's very complicated you're doing it's hypnosis in a way you're hypnotizing people yeah you're dragging them into the way you think about things if you do it well if you they enjoy it they're having a good time it's one of the most rewarding experiences both as an audience member and as a comedian but the other side of that is if you fucking eat shit up there i always say bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother i think somewhere out there is a guy who wants to suck a thousand dicks in front of his mom you know someone, there's someone out there going, you watching mom?

You watching? 99! And he's just like, there's at least, he's probably been on your mom's house. There's one crazy guy out there that is probably into that. Yeah. But no one's into bombing on stage. It's horrible. No, of course it is. I'm excited about your club, man. Francis was telling

me all about it. It's a fun place. He was saying how you really worked out the design of it so that, you know, you're a comedian who's built a comedy club. This has got to be amazing. Yeah, we were real lucky, too, though. We were real lucky that we got this spot, the Ritz Theater. It was like the perfect place. It's almost like it's supposed to be there. Everything, like when we walked into the room, we're like, oh, my God, this is it.

Like, this is perfect. It's the perfect size. Like, everything, and there's two rooms. Like, oh, oh my god this is like this is it like this is this is perfect it's the perfect size like everything's in these two rooms like oh my god this is perfect like we had to make some changes and like we raised the floor and lowered the ceiling and did some a lot to the sound and all that stuff and changed all the seating and everything like that and built a new stage but the bones of it were perfect like the structure that was available to build it in was perfect for this idea of just having a place that's like even the big room is still real intimate. It's still like it's fun. And it's all super positive people working there and super happy people. Everybody's getting paid well.

Everybody's having a good time. And it's just like a real good energy. Like it just feels good when you get there because everybody's kind of trying to do the same thing. And the people that are going there are trying to do this. They're just trying to have fun. Everyone's just trying to have fun. So if you can create, especially with everything so fucking kooky right now,

like people are so excited to just blow off steam. Yeah. It's a special place. And it's not, I mean, the building and the environment, it's all great it's all perfect but that to me isn't what makes it special to me what makes it special is wherever i go as a comedian when you gigs at a comedy club the comedian is always the afterthought it's the only comic comedy club that i've ever been to where it's the comedian who is at the foremost. It's the place

where the comedy is respected. And that is unique, man, because unfortunately with practically every other comedy club, with the exception of a certain few, the comedian is always the last person. Yeah, because they build it as a business. That's why they try to make money. I built it as a place for comedy. Genuinely, the design and the idea behind it was just make the best place for comedy. I just took the same attitude that I do with all other things. I just apply it to that. What's the best way to do it? What's the best way for the art form?

The best way for the art form is a lot of open mics. We have open mics Sunday and Monday. The employees, the door people, are all comics. They audition for the job with their act. And they're all happy to be there, and there's a real path to being a professional. They see it laid out in front of them with Kill Tony. They see it laid out in front of them with the showcase nights and all the clubs that are also in Austin that are blowing up.

There's like the Sunset Room that's right down the street from us. There's the Vulcan. There's Creek in the Cave. Those are all within like a really quick walking distance. So door people can punch out and go do a set and come back. Like they can say, hey, I got a 9 p.m. set at the Creek. Okay, cool. Just punch out. They punch out. They go down the street for 15 minutes. They come right back and they go back to work again. And they also can get spots on the showcase nights. They can get spots on the open mic nights. They get spots around town. There's road gigs You can go to they go to road gigs together

You know and it's like they see this path where you see guys like David Lucas and Hans Kim and William Montgomery have gone from Exactly where they are to being touring professionals who are headlining in clubs and making a great living and having fun doing the thing they love to do. So there's a path. Because before it was like you kind of had to figure out your own path. You know, and you got to kind of hope that someone would hire you to do the road and you would hope that a comedian would take you on the road with them. There's still some of that to some extent, but it's clearer now. Yeah.

And you get to see, like Mike Vecchione was there there this weekend you get to see Andrew Schultz was here a couple weekends ago Tim Dillon's coming up they just announced his show you know this is like Chappelle stops by when he's in town it's like you get to see as a person who's like coming up in comedy you get to see all these great comics sagura is there all the time you know Bryan Simpson just recorded a special there it's it's a beautiful environment that's so exciting man and it's got to be one of the best things about being in your position is being able to create things that you enjoy but give opportunities to other

people and create a space for other people to succeed that's awesome man that's so awesome it's really cool to be able to do yeah because it's um I know it's you know if I'm not gonna do it who's gonna do it like it's like that's that's my role that's like this spot I was in especially moving to Austin there there wasn't a cap City had been closed down so there wasn't like a big comedy club there's a couple there was a scene you know there's a good local comics it's a good area it's always been good for comedy. There's always been, like, good comics that have come out of Houston and Austin. Bill Hicks.

Bill Hicks. Bill Hicks, I think he came out of here. Yeah. That's where he started, I think. And Houston, too. Yeah. But, you know, it's just a good place. Yeah.

And I think you're making an impact on the broader culture as well because other people see what's possible. You're creating a space that's free, that's uncensored, unrestricted. That's super awesome, man. It's also the cornerstone of the comedy community is the show Kill Tony because Kill Tony is a spot where people who maybe some of them have never done stand-up in their whole life, they go up and they do one minute. And if they kill, it can make their fucking career. One solid minute. And some of of them been doing comedy eight nine years Yeah And you know they get their hat they pulled their name out of the hat they go up there and if they kill

If they really meant and so you have a minute when you have a minute You have to cut out all the bullshit you have to it's got to be like concise. It's got to be sharp It's got to get to the funny right away, and it can't be full of virtue and bullshit You can't you can't be woke you can't you can't have a story about being a victim You have to fucking just be funny you only have a minute And so that is a great cornerstone and the show is so wild and so crazy such a no-rule show It's so chaotic, and it's fucking huge now They just sold out the H-E-B Arena in town for a New Year's show.

And they added a second show. So they added a second night because there were so many tickets that were sold. A fucking podcast is selling out two 15,000 seat arenas. It's nuts. You know, I went to watch Kill Tony last time I was here. And I have never seen the energy that was in that room like you could use it to power like cities

I've never seen I was going to say that that energy that is in that room from the audience and then like the symbiotic relationship with the comedians it's so powerful I've never seen anything like that yeah when tony and red band moved here it was huge yeah it was gigantic because that was a big cornerstone of the comedy community in la as well

you know just in austin it really came to life though in austin it really got way more popular and way bigger it's just fucking it's just great the guests are great post malone was on with me a couple weeks ago. Ric Flair was on the other day. I saw the Ric Flair one. That was a trip. The Protect Our Parks guys are on there all the time. It's like it's always got great, great shows.

And Tony's the master. He's so good at running that show. He's the fastest with like a one-liner that I've never seen anybody like in my life. He's the best I've ever seen. It's like people don't know. Go watch those episodes. He's a fucking animal. It's so good. And there's a wildness to it. And that's, we live in a world which is ever more sanitized, where people have to watch what they say. People are now watching what they think. They think that, oh, I can't think. Sometimes you have a conversation, you can even see people self-censoring their thoughts as you're having a conversation that's not an accident because when you control people's speech you control what they

can think you have to be able to speak to think that's how we think right by saying things out loud this is why censorship is such a problem man because when you speak you you say some dumb shit we all do and then someone goes well hold on have you thought about this right and then you correct and you adjust but if you prevent people from saying anything out loud they can't think properly and that's what we're seeing there's another thing that people should probably consider that's helped me greatly I don't think that my ideas are me I think they are ideas I am NOT married them. They are not a part of my body.

They're just a thing that I'm bouncing around in my head and I could be wrong. And if I can be wrong, it doesn't make me a lesser person. And I think a lot of people equate being wrong with being lesser. There's an intellectual competition

when two people are disagreeing about ideas. And the ability to say, oh, I see your point, is not a weakness. It's a strength. Massive strength. It's a massive strength to be able to recognize someone's argument and go, okay, I see where you're going. Okay. That makes sense. And when people can't do that, it's very frustrating for people. And look, you can get a large audience of people. If you can't

do that, you still can. There's a lot of people that are just happy to jump into that echo kiddie pool and piss all over each other. They love it. But it's not good for anybody. It's not good for all of us collectively. You shouldn't do it. And you're only doing it because it's a trick. It's an ego trick. I think fear plays a large factor as well, Joe. I just think people are scared, man. There's, there's a very famous quote, you know, most men live their lives in a state of quiet desperation. Thoreau. Yeah. People are terrified, and they're just so terrified

that they're going to say or do the wrong thing. Their partner's going to leave them. Their kids are going to hate them. All of these things in their entire world and everything that they've strived for so long to build this tiny little kingdom, if they step out of line everything is going to crumble and most people are living check to check so that fear is even more like we're not talking about the person who has a billion dollars like why he's still working like look that's elon musk why is he so wild

he's wild because he's got 228 billion dollars like if he's not gonna be wild who the fuck is right but the fact that he's willing to do that and he's so i think it's so i mean he's my friend yeah i'm kissing his ass but i think he's a fucking massively important cultural figure right now and he's often maligned and labeled as being alt-right is he right all the time no he's wrong sometimes he's like yeah he's No, he's wrong sometimes. He's like, yeah. Remember he tweeted that thing about the guy who broke into Paul Pelosi's house? Like, you know, like there was some controversy about whether or not, you know,

that story made any sense. Like maybe this guy was already there. Like people were implying that maybe Paul Pelosi had like an affair with this guy or something. There was a lot of crazy theories that were bouncing around. No, and then we saw the video. And there was a fucking crazy person with a hammer that broke with this guy or something. There was a lot of crazy theories that were bouncing around. No. And then we saw the video. And there was a fucking crazy person with a hammer that broke into the guy's house. But the ability to just find out, to talk about stuff, even if you're wrong, like that's real important.

But the ability to know when you're wrong too and to be able to admit it, that's important too. Like all of it's important. It's important. We've got to be able to work this out. And you're going to get people to say the wrong things when you, when you're allowing people to just freely speak and think in real time without doing any fucking research. Sometimes, you know, there's a lot of people espouse ideas on, on, on Twitter or X or whatever. They're not, they haven't looked into this very much. This is their belief and they're

going to spit it out there and then they're gonna start defending it They're gonna yell at you and call you a fucking simp and you know You know, that's okay, too. Like that has to take place. Yeah, this is the most liberating and fulfilling thing for us I think doing what we do it. We have the freedom to speak. Yeah In public and discuss things and be wrong and be corrected and move on from that and grow as people. That's the beauty of what we do, man. It's amazing that it exists. That's why I feel so strongly about it needing protection, it needing to be preserved, because without that, we're heading in the wrong direction.

It's an integral part of our society, whether you're on the right or the left. It's important. It's important for everybody. And it's important for everybody to be fair it's really important it's important to be fair and to be and to just like try to think of ourselves as a community we really are supposed to be that yeah even the people that snuck in whatever man i mean my my grandparents basically snuck in i mean they came over when it was easy you just hopped in a boat boat, you get over here, you sign a piece of paper, and you're in. They didn't have to do much of anything.

It's like not that much different other than they were pretty gangster because they didn't have YouTube to watch. They just took a chance that America was a good spot to be. But we've got to think of it as a community. If we don't think of it as a community, there's no point in this calling this a country. Like now it's just nuts. Now it's just like it's only a community if you win. It's only a community for your people. It's only it's only good for the people that agree with your side of things.

That's fucking nuts. And we need wild people. This is to go back to watching Kill Tony. Kill Tony is wild. And to me, as somebody who has obviously spent time in the UK, and now everything has become more and more sanitized, it was kind of like a cold

slap around the face. I was like, whoa, what's happening here? I remember the first time you guys came to the Vulcan. Yeah. Before we were able to open up the club, and you're like, mate. That's a good impression on me. You guys can get away with it. There's a hunger for it here, too it there's a hunger for it here too there's a hunger for it everywhere man the truth is everybody wants that freedom

everybody yeah but there's a real like there's a recognition here that something cool is going on yeah because like Austin has become a major comedy scene it's like it's a big comedy scene now

it's a big deal you know and we have the other Cab City opened up too which is in Domain which is real close to here too and it's all world-class talent every weekend that's great for us too it's great for everybody they have two rooms over there too and i haven't been but i've heard it's a great club so it's it's great for everybody and so the the austin community

recognized it and we got all this crazy uh comedy tourism people are flying here from all over the world to come to these shows. Yeah, I bet. And Tony asks all the time, like, how many people have come from somewhere else? Who came from the furthest? People are like, come from Australia

just for this show. I've come from England. I've come from France. I've come from Denmark. Like, a whole audience is filled with people that come from all over the place. It's beautiful, man.

When we started doing live shows, we haven't done a few for a while for Trigonometry, but that's what we found. People flying over from America to London to see us on stage with Andrew Doyle or someone like that just talking. Yeah, there's a hunger. People have a real hunger for fun and for people who have good ideas, people that they want to hear talk about stuff. It enriches their perspective of the world.

And I think that that's a very valuable thing, whether you're on the right or the left. I think we need to think about it just as an overall species. The human species values interaction, values honest interaction. It's important for us. We need to be able to do it all the time. It's the only way we're going to sort things out. But we should do it with some principles. And one of those principles I think that I've adopted, I've tried very hard to adopt is I'm not my ideas. They're not me. They're a thing that I explore and I try to explore them with as much humility as I can. And some of them I fucking lock onto. I'm like, this seems pretty goddamn clear. And if you disagree with me, I'd love to hear your point. I'd love to hear your position of why you disagree,

And if you disagree with me, I'd love to hear your point. I'd love to hear your position of why you disagree, but don't bullshit me. Like, come to me from a real place. And have you really assessed this? Have you really looked at this accurately? Have you looked at this historically? Like, historically, what have people very similar to this done? What are we talking about here?

And we need wild people. You know, we're sanitizing culture to the point where the maverick, the person who is a little bit kooky the person who is You we would describe as a little bit out there Those are the people who change culture as well the people who see things in a completely different way. We still love that We did stars right that's what those were rock stars. Those were the comedians those were the people are like I mean he said it. I can't believe he said it But you know. But we love that because we get to live our life vicariously through those people.

It's so cathartic. I remember the first time I went, like my friend, a couple of comedians, one of my mates went to me, right, you've got to go and see this guy called Bill Burr. And this was like in 2014, and he was playing the Leicester Square Theatre. I think you played it as well, Joe, back in the day. It's a little 400 seat theatre and I remember watching this guy and I'm like number one, this is the funniest thing I think I've ever seen and number two, I can't believe

he's saying this stuff. Why is no one coming to shut this down? That's the British response. Why is no one shutting this down? Where's the council? Why is this one shutting this down? Where's the council? Why is this not regulated? But it's important.

It's why we love sports. It's why we love boxing. It's why we love UFC. It's why Jorge Mahvidal is a star. Yeah, you need wild people. You need it. Look, I'm a big fan of wild people. Oh, man.

It's like half my friends. There's something you said last time we were here that really changed the way i think about it all i remember i asked you about teddy atlas and how that conversation went uh and how you felt about somebody saying something about a friend of yours that was not complimentary and and the thing you said was like the first thing is you have to let the person say their thing they have to let them express themselves and that is just so simple but so profound uh in the current culture you've got to let people speak you got it people always think you're supposed to push back immediately i always at very the the very beginning of any kind of wacky conversation where i think someone's off the rails or i don't agree with them

or i i'm or i'm willing to think in the way they think. I'll open myself up. Okay, tell me how you think about this. You got to let them lay it all out. It's got to, you can't, if you interrupt, if you jump in. When I had Bobby Kennedy on, I said it was the first time in 18 years anybody let him talk like that. Everybody always pushed back. Everybody's felt like I have to stop you. I have to say studies would disagree. I have to say what you're saying is not true. I have to say, you know, vaccines have been the most important invention. And you have to say, let the guy talk. Let him talk. Yeah. Then try to figure out how he got to that spot. Yeah. What is it about the way you see things that's

different than the way I see things? And what do you know that I don't know? And if you can't do that, you not going to have real conversations with people you're never going to know what they really think you're always going to just be battling with them and you see that there's a lot of these talk show hosts online not not even necessarily online but on television particularly because they have such a short format you can kind of steamroll somebody and they just start the conversation and jump in and insult them and jump in and reject what they're saying and jump in and get louder and jump in. And then before you know it, the segment's over and someone's got a zinger or two that they've already prepared. And they say that the problem with people like you is boom, we'll be back.

And then you show a commercial for Pfizer. It's just so limited. It's a limited way of communicating. We all know it's limited. It's not good. That's why I'm so excited about new media. I think it's a real opportunity to start to change that. You know, with Trigonometry, we're increasingly thinking about it as trigger media in terms of bringing other people. We're going to start a show with Winston Marshall and Andrew Doyle and me on the channel. We're going to be doing more comedy and stuff like that. That's great.

Yeah. Keep expanding. There's a hunger for it. You know, there's a hunger for intelligent conversations with people, people you agree with and disagree with. And, you know, that's how you find out about stuff. I mean, I remember those conversations. One of the things that I used to really love watching is these debates,

like when Christopher Hitchens was alive, when he would debate religious people. Yeah. And Sam Harris as well. They debate. These were fascinating watching people get their ideas shattered by a more brilliant mind. Yeah.

It's like that. Those are so important and no one's doing that anymore. Yeah. These kind of, they're just so, these ideas are so important and no one's doing that anymore. Yeah, these kind of convert They're they're just so these ideas are so controversial and toxic now some of the things that ail us are so controversial That people don't even want to discuss them. They just want to walk away. It's third rail I don't want to be a part of that and let me ask you something Joe about the new atheist because There's a lot of people I wrote an article my sub site called the atheism delusion

And there's a lot of people now talking about how that idea hasn't really worked out in the sense of once you take away religion, once you take away people's – we talked about it earlier. People need religious experiences, right? I wonder whether part of the problems that we are facing is the lack of it. The criticisms that they were making were legitimate, but where we've ended up doesn't seem to me to be a good place. And then you get, we talked about this earlier, the woke ideology coming in. It almost feels like a replacement for what we had before. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it becomes very much like religion in a lot of ways.

Do you remember Atheism Plus? No. That was the thing they were trying for a little while, or some factions were trying, where it was Atheism Plus, a series of ethical and moral guidelines. So it was like atheism. It wasn't just atheism. It was atheism plus a lot of very woke ideologies. But particularly at the time, they weren't calling it woke.

It was like progressive ideology. And then I'm like, oh, okay, religion. So you guys have rules. it's not deities it's a moral high ground it's you know it's instead of a god you have a set of ideals that can't be questioned yeah you know we interviewed dawkins a couple of months ago and one of my favorite ever conversations and you know what a brilliant man what a brilliant mind and we were talking with him and i was i i said to him but people need religion richard because the reality is we're all gonna die that is a reality that is the harsh and brutal reality

of human existence we are born and we shall die but the idea of death to the vast majority of people and understandably so is so terrifying that it's that it's impossible to intellectualize it's impossible to accept so i think the vast majority of people need religion they just need it yeah well people need something something something and that's why you're seeing the ayahuasca rituals become like a replacement in a lot of ways for religion. But, you know, honestly, a better one. I know a lot of people that have gotten like some profound changes from psychedelic experiences, if done correctly, with the right intent and the right setting. You can't deny them, whether it's psilocybin or DMT or these experiences that people

have had where they've legitimately changed as a human being. I don't think that they should be ignored. And I think that denying those from people, that's not good for anybody either. It's not good to deny people their right to practice religion. It's not good to tell people that the way they're living is wrong. Live your way. Live your way. And if someone wants to live with religion, as long as they're not imposing that on other people, and that's, of course, where the big problem is.

That's where there's laws that get put in place. And then there's certain restrictions on certain parts of the population, whether it's homosexuality or women. Now we're dealing with problems. We're dealing with control issues. Yeah. You know, and if you say that there's no need for religion, well, what about all the people

that benefit from it? Right. It seems like a lot of people get real meaning from religion. How could that be a bad thing? It seems like it's only a bad thing if they're imposing on other people, if they're forcing other people to give in to their will. And it's like that with wokeness. I'm like, be woke if you want.

Just don't make other people do it. People are allowed to think whatever they're allowed to think. But let me ask you something because I think all three of us are nonbelievers. Is that fair? I don't think I'm a nonbeliever. No. I had a psychedelic experience in january this year i took a like i did the full thing like i i kind of had a shaman

and like i had did it like a mushroom ceremony in my house and um we did we did we did the mushroom trip and then he the the guy administered this tobacco, which they use in the Native people use in South America. It's a tobacco you put up the nose. I don't know what it is. I remember when it happened, when he did it, the first hit, I didn't get anything from it. I just felt uncomfortable.

He put the second hit up my nose. Everything went black black i just saw these orange kind of squiggles in front of me and then i just felt myself like sinking backwards and i like i had no control over my body and i was lying back and i had i and i remember at one point i kind of thought this is what dying is this is what it means to literally die and i and i panicked halfway through and i remember sitting up and trying to sit up and then whatever it was just smacked me back down and one of the parts of me that i i that i'm not proud of is a kind of sort of depressive element to my personality and going oh this is fucking bullshit i want to die or whatever you

know what i mean and it kind of like you always had that negative side to you well you're going to experience death motherfucker you know you're actually going to experience what it is to die and having gone through that and and having experienced that it it made me realize i don't know why i don't there's no way of intellectualizing it there's no way of seeing it but just i i know there is a god but it's so beyond our capabilities to understand what it is that it's kind of pointless to talk about you know what i mean i think one of the things that i've gotten out of psychedelic experiences is that there's an inescapable connection that we have with each other. Yes. And that the energy that we put out, good or bad, ripples and creates positive or negative reactions all throughout everything you experience.

Whether you want to believe that or not. Whether you want to believe you're immune to that while you're doing coke and fucking stealing money from the hedge fund. What do you want to believe you're immune to that while you're doing coke and fucking stealing money from the hedge fund? you're You're putting out an inescapable Negative reaction and that the more good you can do and the less you can do that the better you will be in life and That it should be a practice that you should practice trying to put out the least amount of negative energy Yes, least amount of negative energy. Yes. Least amount of conflict, the least amount of bullshit, the least amount of where you could take the high road.

Take it. Take it always. There's a way to do it. Find a way to communicate with people, even people you don't disagree with, with respect and dignity, and it'll be better for everybody. You both walk away feeling better, even if you don't agree with each other on something but so many

people are so invested in conflict they're so invested in that and it made me realize like that's just like a negative trap just a feedback loop that will play out for your whole life if you don't stop it if you don't correct it inside of your being and just commit to no longer doing that if you don't correct it inside of your being and just commit to no longer doing that, if you don't do that, you're going to constantly be involved in conflict. And we know people that are constantly involved in conflict. We know people like that. There's always something wrong. There's always something chaotic with them or what they're doing and who's doing something to them and they're doing're doing this to that person and it's like it's a waste it's a giant waste it's a it's

a energy management problem it's a it's a it's a soul problem it's a direction problem it's like you're just you're on the wrong path and you don't have to be yeah i suppose non-believers is probably the wrong term i guess what i was going to ask you joe is how do you think about death well it's inevitable it's interesting right everyone i always say this that everyone wants to go to sleep but no one wants to die yeah it's weird it's weird you're looking to shut off as long as you know you can come back yeah cuz you need it we all do it it's whatever it is I would just be talking out of my ass if I said I knew and that's part of the problems that it's so unknown that so many people

talk out of their ass and then they want to believe that the person who they agree with is correct and so like this is what happens to you in the kingdom of heaven like bitch how do you know how do you know you don't know you're just guessing you might be right you might be right imagine if you go to heaven st peter's there with a big book you run the list like what there's really dudes with robes and like oh my god angels are real cherubs flying around like little babies with wings like whoa okay it's real would that be any weirder than earth would it be any weirder than human beings would it be weirder than Twitter Twitter yeah you know that's probably a lot less way than Twitter but what I mean is

timing with people the other side of the world what I mean is how do you think about the inevitable the inevitability of your own death something I'm thinking about and having children changes how you think about it. For me, at least. Well, there's a certain amount of things in this world that are out of your control. And if you concentrate on things that are out of your control, you're fucked. Yeah. And if you, I mean, that is the epitome of existential angst, right?

Yeah. Constantly worrying about your own demise. It's going to happen. And that's part of the wildness of the puzzle of life. Is that demise. It's going to happen. And that's part of the wildness of the puzzle of life is that you know it's going to happen. And you have to be able to somehow accept that and also appreciate life right now. Because if you were dead, or imagine if you're on your deathbed, and you know, this is your last gasps of air if i had something that i could give you and all of a sudden you'd be 39 again and all of a sudden you'd be doing a podcast again and all of a sudden you'd

see your wife again and see your children again and see your friends again and go to the places where all the people you love go you would be so happy you'd be so happy to be there like oh my god another i got another shot at this and we don't often think that way. No. And we really should appreciate the moment. As corny and fucking spiritual guru wooden beads, you know, as that sounds, we really should appreciate the moment. And it's a matter of managing your mind to the point where you can do that consistently.

And that's what's hard. It's hard to do that. You know, I think we're kind of living together in a group now, the Trigger team, and people have brought on... Oh, you've got a cult. Yeah, that's it. It's a good cult, though.

It's one of the good ones. It's a cult about the sex, mate. That's how they all say it in the beginning. That's my point. That's my point. Yeah. But, you know, and... We're not actually living together anymore.

We used to. We used to. But Constantine's little boy's there. And it's so wonderful, man. It's just so... Because you're living with a person, you know, he's 14, 16 months, around 16 months. And you're living with someone who exists purely in the moment. There's no agenda.

Right. There's no like, oh, but if i say this and i do this then maybe he might like me which means i can there's just like i remember there was one instance where i was on my phone and i was trying to sort something out i was frustrated and he toddled up to me and he had like a little plastic cup and he just went like that and gave it to me and at that moment like everything disappeared it didn't matter that i was upset about they were frustrated because to him all that mattered was him giving me something and saying here you go this is from me to you and it was like it was just like love like pure it was just the most beautiful thing that one single moment he just wanted to interact with you yeah yeah he's a cutie yeah cutie yeah um i'm working on on on my the second book, and it's going to be something to do with gratitude because you nailed it, man.

This is one of the things that I think is missing in our society is we don't appreciate what we have. Can we hold that thought? I have to pee so bad. Yeah. Let's hold that thought right. Can we all pee? Yeah. Let's all, yeah.

No, only me. Only me. I want you to be uncomfortable. All right, yeah. Let's be right back. Yeehaw, kids. And we're back. We, let's all, yeah. No, only me. Only me. I want you to be uncomfortable. All right, yeah, let's be, we'll be right back. Yeehaw, kids, and we're back. We're back.

We're refreshed. What the fuck were we talking about? Gratitude. Gratitude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it sounds, again, it's one of those hippie things. They've taken over that word, you know? It's like the word God. Like, for a lot of people, the word God's like, oh, come on.

What it, you know, but what does it mean to you? It ain't no hippie thing, man. It's a real human thing. Everybody needs it. Gratitude is positive energy. It's like appreciating things. It's so hard for people to do. And again, it's like it's a mental management issue.

you so many people haven't been given the tools to to be able to do that or the moments in life where you have to sort of cultivate that yeah yeah yeah it's easier for us man because you know we started our show in a room above a comedy club with nothing like we had less than nothing we didn't have any cameras we didn't have any microphones we didn't have any cameras. We didn't have any microphones. We didn't have any money. We didn't have any profile. We didn't have any followers. We literally had nothing. And every day now, we just experience it as, it sounds hippie and bullshit and whatever, but it's true.

Every day is a blessing, man. It really, really is. You know, this is, I think, again, this is partly the trip that that i did just made me realize man like everything is connection like the what we all crave at its most basic is connection yeah that's what we that's what we all crave we crave connection we crave to be around people to share ideas to be heard to be listened to to feel love to give love and that's why like you see social media is the ultimate con trick in a way because it's going you're more than connected more connected than

ever but you see it when you see like a couple and they're going for a day or whatever else and like they're both on their phones and they've both got their head down and you go you're not connecting you're not having a discussion which is why our show works and why your show works because it's connection and that's it's it's a beautiful thing and to connect with another human being and to share to listen to share experiences to and to play yeah it's it's but it's life and I think the other thing that's cool is like people get to listen to your show and have conversations.

They're kind of a part of this conversation. They get to go back and forth with it. And they don't have anybody in their life they could have that conversation with. So they have access to these conversations that you have with these people. And through that, they get an enhanced perspective of things. So maybe they're in a place where there is no one like these people that you're talking to and they get to listen and go, Oh, well maybe the way I'm looking at things is narrow minded or maybe the way I'm

looking at things is flavored by all the people around me. And I've just sort of accepted that as my own ideas. Maybe I don't agree with them. Maybe I'm more in line with the way you guys think, or maybe I'm more in line with the way your guest thinks. And it's a, as weird as it sounds like you're enriching people's experiences as a human being through doing that. Yeah. And we enrich ourselves for us from day one,

man, every conversation. It's a privilege to be, I mean, in your case, even more so you've got some of the most amazing people in the world coming in here and sitting down for three, four, five hours, whatever it is. And you get to pick their brain and have a connection and a conversation it's it's the most amazing thing it's pretty wild yeah and again totally unexpected just like you guys have started out with a laptop yeah just hanging out doing stuff on webcam my friend brian and then it went from there and you know the beautiful thing about this show is that you humanize people yes you humanize people because in the world of media and celebrity they that what they do is they paint

two-dimensional pictures of people you know joe rogan is this mike tyson is this and then you listen to the person you go oh actually what i've been painted is bullshit. It's a two-dimensional representation, which actually doesn't reflect one iota of who they truly are as a human being. Some people just accept it for what they hear. But the good thing about the negative perspectives that people have is it forces other people to listen. It doesn't force them. It entices them to listen yeah

entices because they're like what is this crazy shit yeah like what's going on that yeah and they listen and go oh it's a reasonable conversation it's just going against what's the the narrative that you have to say and the way you have to talk and that if you don't think that way, you're some extremist, some far right or far this or far that or fucking proud boy or whatever you are. Yeah. Yeah. It's so easy to label people like that. So easy to just dismiss him entirely as soon as you label him like that. even our perceptions like who Joe Rogan is or who Constantine or Francis is it for for most people it's it's it's a snippet of some information that they saw different people saw different snippets

so if that if you were arguing about who was Francis Foster well our perspectives are going to be so different because we've got different experiences so I remember and this it was so crazy um a friend of ours had a girlfriend who was very smart very interested she's kind of into the stuff that we talk about and whatever and we were at a party somewhere and she was saying oh you were just on joe rogan isn't he all right and i was like okay what let's unpack that what do you mean right i you know how i can go when i disagree with somebody but i just held back and i was just like let's find out what you're talking and what it came down to is you're a masculine guy who's got muscles and tattoos that's what

that's what alright means that's hilarious right I think Francis is right when you take the time to be with people then you get to see a lot more of the human being yeah and hopefully we're doing that and more people should do it too

so like try to do it with your friends. You know, it's, you know, I love watching all these podcasts that emerge where people are just starting it out and just trying it. And some of them suck, but I sucked too in the beginning. Oh, we all did. Everybody sucks in the beginning. Yeah, it's hard. You could bring up

photos of us, I mean, particularly photos of me when we just started out. Oh, my sweet lord. But I mean, photos of us. I mean, particularly photos of me when we just started out. Oh, my sweet Lord. But I remember because I've been listening to shows. Don't skip over that, man. The transformation in you since we started has been fucking amazing and inspiring to watch, to be honest, in every way. It's been beautiful. Yeah. And it's, you know, working.

Like transformation in your mind, the way you think about things? The transformation in my mind, the transformation in my body. But also it's... It's all that fat shaming I did. It's paying off, man. Yeah, exactly. It's hardcore fat shaming. Fat shaming works.

Yeah, I mean, it really does. It works. You can look at a picture of me. It works. You probably shouldn't do it. No, it works for men. Yeah. It works for men.

Maybe not for women. It doesn't work on Bert Kreischer. But I will say this, man. It's like when I was, I remember listening to one of your interviews with Mike Tyson where he was talking about DMT and how it changed who he was and how there was a Mike Tyson before DMT, there was a Mike Tyson after DMT. And he said that he looks back and he doesn't like the guy he used to be. He goes, that person scares me.

That person was wild. That person was out of control. I don't ever want to go back to being that person. And I thought to myself, how beautiful, man, that you get to be part of somebody's redemption arc. Of somebody going, you know what? I wasn't a very good person. I was very damaged and for whatever

reason i did things that i'm not proud of but now i'm trying to be better and if you think about it man imagine you you look back and you don't think that right how have you spent your life right you're not better than you were 30 years ago right no i don't care how good you were 30 years ago you could still be better today mike tyson's arc is one of the most fascinating, right? Because he was such a destroyer. I mean, he got all of his love and all of his attention from smashing people, like literally separating human beings from their consciousness in front of the whole world. And he was, I mean, look, I'm a huge boxing fan,

and you can look at all of these, you know, the greats, like the Fraziers, the Arleys, you know, the Joe Louises, you know, all of these people. But I would say that with Tyson, with early, early Tyson, he was the most exciting fighter. Oh, yeah. You just, the moment there was a fight with Tyson, everyone was watching. They were like executions. Was it the knockouts you think? That was really the thing. It was the threat of the knockouts, the knockouts,

the menacing image that he presented. Would he come in with a towel around his neck and nothing else? No socks, black shorts, smashing people. Just so dedicated to this one thing. Being the greatest heavyweight of all time. And it's also as well man like

you know every boxer every fighter has got a nickname and some of them are more appropriate than others he called himself the baddest man on the planet and at his peak he was the baddest man there was no UFC back then oh man

no one could take him down yeah and like I said before you know there was no uh no one could take him down yeah you know you you just you don't and like i said before you know you took you you had an interview with him you humanized him you made him you'd be to me he became not mike tyson this avatar the baddest man on the planet but what he did he became a human being and it also enriched me because then i was like oh i really want to do psychedelics because i want that that insight that he has had about himself yeah and that process i want to go on that journey now yeah it's helped me yeah helped me tremendously well speaking of

the ufc joe i am so gutted that we're not going to see Jon Jones versus Francis Ngannou. We might still see it. You think we will? Anything can happen. You never know. You never know. But that's got to be the greatest fight that hasn't happened in the UFC history, right? Yeah.

That's the big one. That would have been the big one. But, you know, Francis is going to have this boxing match with Tyson Fury. Yeah. How do you think that goes? Yeah. I mean, Tyson Fury is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, heavyweight

of all time. He's so good. He's so slick. His footwork, his movement, the way he sets traps and catches people. He's so clever. He's so skilled. He's been unstoppable as a heavyweight boxer. Francis is a big, powerful

knockout artist. That's undeniable. But, you know, the advantage obviously goes to Tyson Fury. It's his sport. He's the best, one of the best, if not the best ever at his sport. Yeah. He's so fucking good. And he's so clever. He comes in all fat and everything and makes fun of it and takes his shirt off and still beats the shit out of everybody.

And he's skilled, isn't he? Super skilled. Oh, he's so skilled. He's skilled like a smaller everybody. And he's skilled, isn't he? Super skilled. Oh, he's so skilled. He's skilled like a smaller man, and he's enormous. He's so fleet on his feet, his footwork, his movements. He's such a good boxer, man. He's such a good boxer. Francis has got to catch him with a big punch,

and he's got to be able to figure out how to do that. How do you catch a guy who's been boxing his whole life against all the greats in boxing? Guys are the best boxers ever. That said, Francis, I believe, when he was a young man, if he had just gotten into boxing and not into MMA, like, if someone had found him when he was, like, Mike Tyson's age, when Mike Tyson was 13, and trained Francis, like if Customato had found Francis, Francis is a

terrifying specimen. He's so big, and he's so powerful. He's the greatest one-punch knockout artist I've ever seen in the heavyweight division. The stuff that he does, the way he takes people out, the way he knocked out Alistair Overeem and Cain Velasquez and all, it's just like, if he hits you, you're fucked. But that's with little gloves, right? So you have to take into account the gloves are bigger. You've got to take into account it's only boxing.

So the footwork and the movement is going to be different. And he's fighting a master. You know, if he can connect, who fucking knows? You know, it is the quintessential puncher's chance. But you would have to, if you look at the betting odds, they must be enormously enticing Fury's favorite. what are the betting odds online for this fight let's take a guess i'll say five to one six to one seven to one something like that maybe more let's take a guess what do you think they are i mean the thing is with tyson as well is that he comes from a

gypsy background and as someone who has taught gypsy kids they get taught how to box from the age of four to five it's part of their culture and their other part i remember when he got uh he i can't remember which fight i was working at a radio station at the time and we were doing overnight so i watched i think it was the first wilder fight may have been the second do you remember when he got knocked down everyone went he's he's dead? And then he got back up. And I can't believe he got back up. Gypsy boys are trained. You never, ever back down from a fight. You keep going until they are done or you are done. That is it.

He didn't just get up. He got up and won the rest of the round. He got up like The Undertaker and then won the rest of the round. And then he figured out that's the way to fight Deontay Wilder, to put him on his heels. And then he came in the second fight and beat him down. And then it figured out that's the way to fight Deontay Wilder, to put him on his heels. And then came in the second fight and beat him down. And then the third fight. Got clipped in the third fight by a punch that probably takes out 99.99% of all the people who've ever lived.

And somehow or another he survives it. From a guy who's the biggest one-punch knockout artist in the history of boxing. Deontay Wilder puts everyone to sleep. Yeah. He just shuts dudes' lights off with one shot. Blap! He does it to everybody. Everybody.

You see guys get hit, and they're like, what the fuck happened? He's such a brutal puncher, and Fury survived that. Survived that in the first fight, survived it in the second fight, survived it in the third fight. Well, this is what I was going to ask you, because if it's a puncher's chance,

the question is How does? Garner compare power wise to it like a Deontay Wilder. We really won't know We really won't know until we see him hit a boxer with the big gloves on We know Deontay Deontay hits anybody they go out except Tyson Fury's the only one has been able to survive it Which is then that fight you could see see Wilder walk away. He thought Fury was done. Everybody's done when he hits them like that. Yeah. The Luis Ortiz

fight, you ever see that fight? No. He hits him with the right hand on the forehead. Just bop! And Ortiz is on the ground like he got shot. Like he has no idea what the fuck happened. Watch it. Here. Find that. Deontay Wilder knocks out Luis Ortiz. And Luis Ortiz is from the Cuban Olympic program.

Luis Ortiz is a phenomenal boxer. And I think Ortiz is probably ahead on the scorecards because Ortiz is a great boxer. Probably close, but he might have been ahead on the scorecards. And Deontay just, blap, one shot. The way he knocks people out, too, it's just like, jeez. They go flying. It's like he's got magic in his hands. He's not the biggest guy in the world.

He's very tall and long, but it's just the torque and the fucking speed and power behind his shots. It's like nobody in the history of the division, even Tyson. Tyson knocked guys out with a barrage of punches usually, except like Michael Spinks. Even Larry Holmes. He had dropped Larry before he knocked him out. Deontay just catches guys with one shot. So they're boxing here, and watch when the one-punch knockout comes. See, he's already got them hurt.

Boom. Boom. Boom. Is that after he was dropped, or was he dropped before that? No. Oh, man. Is that after he was dropped or was he dropped before that? No. I think he gets up. I think the rational thing to do there is to stay down.

I know. Just the power this dude has is just so crazy. Oh. Oh, my. Oh, man. He just crumples. You know the one that gives me nightmares? Is that the second time they fought, Jamie? I don't think that was the right KO. Yeah, I think they fought twice.

I mean, I typed in KO, and those were the two fights that popped up. Oh, dude. Crazy. The Brazil fight. Crazy power. I mean, his power is just... That's round one of 12.

Boom. I mean, Deontay's like nobody else. His fucking power is so ridiculous. And he's so long. Yeah, that one was wild. Oh, my God. Stiverne was the first guy to ever go the distance with him, I think, in the first fight.

In the second fight, he just put his lights out. Jesus. I mean, the power is just extraordinary, man. Look at that. He's like, you know, so can Francis punch like that? I don't, you know, we're going to find out. I don't know. You know, I mean, it's like when you look at him move

and you look at Tyson Fury move, like, wow, like wow that's an uphill battle yeah but what is the odds yeah I was gonna go ten to one Joe it's I found two two different sites it's uh in Ghana's plus 725 71 yeah you were right yeah and that's you know it probably will go up when the fight comes. You know, more people start betting on Tyson Fury. Yeah, this one has Ngannou just a little bit lower, but Fury is the same on both sides I checked. Yeah. 1,100.

But Jon Jones, man, I would so love to see that fight, particularly when we saw what happened with Cyril Garn. Because you look at Cyril Garn, you go, this guy moves so well for a big guy, so skilled, so talented, and it was over. Cakewalk. Cakewalk. Yeah, no one else can do that to Cyril Ghosn. Here it is.

This is the Louis Ortiz fight. This is the second fight. Okay, watch this. Boom. One shot. One shot. That's the one I'm talking about. Oh, man.

Oh, my God. So he KO'd him twice. Oh, man. This one was just one shot to the forehead. And Ortiz was like, whoa, daddy. Watch this again. Right here. Oh, is this the highlight?

Yeah, I just backed up too far. It was a good fight up until this moment, too. Here it comes. And he's been able to pull it from the fire with devastating shots. Ooh, see? He's getting hit. Yeah, Ortiz was scoring on him, man. I'm telling you. Here it comes. He's getting hit. Yeah, Ortiz was scoring on him, man. I'm telling you. It was a good fight. There it is.

Oh, my. There it is. One shot. Come on, son. That guy punches so hard. Oh, man. So can Francis punch like that? We don't know.

You know, we really don't know until he boxes. Can he deliver it? Can he deliver it on someone's chin? Because Deontay doesn't just hit that hard. He delivers those shots on guys like Tyson Fury. Yeah. You know, he delivers those shots on everybody. It's an uphill battle.

He's a scary guy, though, man. Francis is a scary dude. He's big. He's 265 naturally, shredded. What did he say he was walking around, 275? 275-ish, 280? He's walking around because he doesn't have to make the UFC's weight limit. UFC's weight limit was 265, so he had to be 265 to fight in the UFC.

He looked like he was chiseled out of granite. He's a perfect athlete for fighting. Tall, big, long, crazy power, and intelligent. He figures out how to get better. He got so much better from the first Stipe fight to the second fight. Oh, yeah. There was no comparison. He was a completely different guy.

Patient, calculated, technical, you know, and the knockout punch that he hit Stipe with. The Jairzino Rosenstreich knockout gives me nightmares. Yeah, that was crazy. He's 290 to 293. Wow. Wow. So he weighs two Volkanovskis. He's enormous.

But, you know, can he deliver that power? And the betting odds say no. Are you a fan of the crossover fights? Yeah, I'm a fan of guys like Francis making a shitload of money. Sure. I'm a fan of, let's see. I'm a fan of craziness, you know? Like if Jake Paul decides to fight Canelo Alvarez, I'm going to watch.

It's crazy. Do they really do that? That's crazy. I'm a fan of these kind of opportunities for fighters. Like for a guy like Conor McGregor when he fought Floyd Mayweather. Made $100 million. I'm a fan of that. I'm a fan of those guys being able to do something like that

where they make an extraordinary amount of money doing something like that. This isn't my argument, but it is the purist argument that these crossover fights are demeaning to the noble art of boxing. The boxing is a sport. It's an art form. It's taking away from fighters who have dedicated their whole lives to this noble art. You know what I mean? That argument. Yeah.

Also, it's fun. It's yeah, but also it's fun. It's fun to watch that fight. It's fun. It's fun the fact that the heavyweight champion of the UFC who retired as a heavyweight or left the UFC as a champion is going to get to box

the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time with zero professional boxing fights. Let's see. I mean, it's kind of like the Conor McGregor fight. Let's see. You know? And real similar in the talent that they're facing. You know, when Conor McGregor fought Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather's arguably the best boxer of all time.

I mean, the most defensively sound boxer in the history of the sport. Like, the guy literally has only been hit hard like three or four times his whole career. I mean, especially when he really became, like, the great Floyd Mayweather. Like, he was just outboxing everybody. Canelo Alvarez, Manny Pacquiao, everybody got it. Everybody got it. Ricky Hatton, everybody got it. He beat the fuck out of everybody.

He's the man. Floyd's the man. Like 50 and 0. That's the guy. I mean, if you're going to have an all-time great, it's hard to argue that it's not that guy. Because he's the guy that got away from the sport with the least amount of damage, the most amount of money. And he's also been able to sustain himself doing these exhibition fights for crazy amounts of money where the people literally have no chance literally have no chance and in these boxing these folks and they'll fly

him over to Japan you know when he had that fight over there with the this kickboxer he it's what he's doing is pretty wild and you know what Francis and Gano and Tyson Fury gonna do that's pretty wild. And, you know, what Francis Ngannou and Tyson Fury are going to do, that's pretty wild too. Yeah. I mean, you have to watch that, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Are you happy it's happening though? Yeah. Like this noble art of boxing shit? Shut the fuck up. Have that sports completely corrupt. Yeah. Look, you're absolutely right. I sometimes think the reason Mayweather doesn't get his dues

is because he ain't that likable as an individual. You know what I mean? I think he was also less exciting than, you know, a Mike Tyson type of thing in terms of watching as a spectator. Both of those things are fair to say, you know. But also that's also how he got people to watch. He got people to watch by rooting against him. Yes. You know, when he first started out

he was pretty boy floyd it's a different mayweather you know he's pretty boy floyd and then he became money mayweather and it became money mayweather that's when like more people started watching and the more shit he talked and the more he showed you his diamond encrusted watches and rolls royces and the more people wanted him to lose the more he kept winning. Yeah, he became the heel Amazing smart super smart in terms of marketing. I mean, come on, man It ensured a large audience of people that were tuning in just to watch him lose Yeah, well you want us you want to see if that winning streak is gonna get broken war But you also want to see someone to beat him because it's so cocky Tired of this cocky champion

Whenever there's a cocky champion, people want to see him, this guy knock him off his high horse. So people will tune in just to see that. It's just genius. But it was interesting you said you still think Jon Jones versus Francis Ngannou could happen. It could happen, yeah.

Why do you say that, Joe? Well, because Francis has his contract with the PFL. Let's say he fights out his contract. Let's say he fights Tyson Fury and then he fights out his contract. Let's say he fights Tyson Fury, and then he fights out his contract. And then at the end of the contract, the UFC offers him a giant chunk of money to fight Jon Jones. So let's say if Jon Jones fights Stipe, who knows who wins that fight, right? And then maybe if he wins, Jon Jones fights Sergey Pavlovich, who's a very scary guy who's coming through the ranks. There's not a lot of really—Tom Aspinall is very promising.

He's really good. British guy. He's really fucking good. Tom Aspinall is really good. He has the potential to be an all-time great. You watch Tom Aspinall's movement for a heavyweight, his diversity in his skill set, leg kicks, submissions. He's fucking super intelligent, fast as fuck. He's big, naturally big guy, super dedicated to the game.

Tom Aspinall has a real shot. So maybe it's Tom Aspinall. So depending. But if Jon Jones wins all those and Francis wins in the PFL and then leaves, and then they could have another fight. And that would be bonkers. That would be bonkers. You want to see that man. Oh yeah. You want to see that.

I was very upset that he was leaving the UFC because I wanted to see that fight but also very happy that he's going to get this giant payday. I don't know. How much money do they say he's going to make? Are they saying? The only thing I've seen is because Tyson signed that other fight against Usyk that he's going to make over $100 million for both of those, but I haven't seen it.

Yeah, so Tyson Fury's so wild. He decided he's going to book another fight. He's like, this fight's going to be so easy, I'm going to book another one a couple months later. Wow. Talk about a cocky champion, huh? Hey, man, that's the Gypsy King. It's his prerogative. He's the fucking king.

100%, man. That's also a fight that I really, you know, it's his prerogative. He's the fucking game 100% man Yeah, that's that's also a fight that I really really wanted to see the music fight sports illustrates his minimum of 10 But that's you know, yeah, not sure how I could that is Is that saying that it's the bigger payout than the entire person's that he's totaled from UFC Click on the link sports illustrator receive entire click on the link Sports Illustrated receive entire entire UFC career

whoa for Tyson Fury boxing match that makes sense for him you can see that yeah he's such you know Jon Jones

to me is such a fascinating character because when I watch your interview with him and he talked about contrition and wanting to be a better man

I'm like I believed him every second of the way and then you look at his behavior afterwards and he's still just as wild just as crazy you don't get a guy who's that good without him being a wild like john's wild he's wild inside the ring he's wild in his belief in himself he's a wild fella i mean that dude opened up his fight against mauricioicio Shogun Hua with a flying knee at 22 years old.

Against a legend. Catches him with a flying knee. Just beats the brakes off of a legend at 22 years old and wins the title. He's an extraordinary talent. Just extraordinarily good. Comes from those whole family super athletes. Both of his brothers play in the NFL. They're both killers.

It's just like, that guy's the man, you know? And that fight against him, him against Francis, him coming up from light heavyweight, and Francis being this enormous, like, terrifying force at heavyweight, who fucking knows what happens in that fight. Oh, man, I would so love to see that fight. I hope it happens, man. I really, really do. I hope it's not one of those things where we always go ah we missed that one i know

do you know what would be and boxing is really bad for this and this part is what may maybe fall out of a love of boxing for a bit which is when the fight does happen they're both past their peak they're not the same fighters do Do you know what I mean? Eventually. I don't want it to be that either. Right. Like Manny Pacquiao when he fought Floyd. Yeah.

To me, that was one of the biggest disappointments in sport. Unfortunately, Manny went into that fight injured. Yeah. Manny had a torn shoulder going up to that fight, unfortunately. But Floyd was very clever when he chose that fight. He chose that fight after Manny got knocked out by Juan Manuel Marquez. Remember that one-punch crazy knockout where it was really bad, where Freddie Roach said, I don't want you to do anything for a year,

like no fighting for a year. And so you've got to recover from this one. Remember that knockout? I don't, actually. Google Juan Manuel Marquez knocks out Manny Pacquiao because they had fought some really close fights and I think I think Manny

won them I don't know I forget what the previous fights were but I think this was the third fight and Manny Pacquiao got clipped right here watch this The perfect right hand. Oh!

And he's coming in as well, right, as he gets hit. Perfect timing, perfect one-punch KO, out cold. And this was the end. I think this was the end of their trilogy. Oh, it's four. This is the fourth fight they had. Oh, my God. I mean, that is literally the perfect punch.

And Manny just went out cold with one shot. And did he listen to Freddie Roach? Did he take a year? Yes, he did. Yes, my God. I mean, that is literally the perfect punch. And, man, he just went out cold with one shot. And did he listen to Freddie Roach? Did he take a year? Yes, he did. He did. Yes, he did. I think. Gave him a little elbow there as well.

A knockout like that is so bad. Like, you have to. That's a one-punch, completely unconscious, massive concussion. And that's a massive knockout. That's a rare knockout at that level. You know, when you're watching guys that are that good get, you know. There's some fights in the past you could see a guy gets knocked out with one punch like that. Tommy Hearns versus Roberto Duran.

That's one like that. Yeah. Where Tommy Hearns had Roberto Duran in trouble and then clipped him with the perfect right hand of Roberto Duran face plants. And when you're watching Roberto Duran face plant it's like what it's hard to believe the guy who beat Sugar Ray Leonard like one of the greatest boxers of all time and Tommy just catches him with a perfect right hand boom that's the thing with those with those guys man the power they unleash one of my uh my dad used to uh drink with a guy called Alan Minter who was a former middleweight champion the world british guy and he fought and this was in the late 70s early 80s i think he fought he was world

champion he fought haggler and he told my dad he goes you you have never when he when he hit me i've never felt anything like that haggler was a monster yeah he was a destroyer yeah he really was he was like one of the first really elite fighters that fought so well from both stances, whether it's Southpaw or Orthodox. He could fight you from either stance. Yeah. He could, you know, and he fucked guys up like that because he switched stances and be just as good.

So you're looking at two different looks, like the jab coming from the right hand, the jab coming from the left hand. You have to adjust and maybe you only stand one way and he can fucking switch it up anytime he wants. He's unstoppable unstoppable and he only got knocked down one time in his whole career and it was bullshit he got knocked down by one roll dan it wasn't real knockout knockdown rather they called it a knockdown but he really just got knocked off balance and they called it a knockdown he he fell down he got clubbed in the back of the

head and he went down and his gloves touched the ground they called it a knockout a knockdown rather and he got up he's like what the fuck and he went out to knock out roll down but speaking of british guys joe uh patty the baddie versus tony ferguson yeah it's good it's a good fight in terms of like you know tony ferguson's been on uh an unsuccessful streak and patty the baddie had that controversial fight with jared gordon it's a good fight it's a good fight for for both guys because like you know patty's the guy coming up and tony is the legend and so it's a real crossroads fight and for tony it may very well be his last fight in the ufc if he loses it's that's that's you know fair to speculate a lot of people have been calling for him to step down to stop fighting yeah his last

few fights haven't gone that well well it was really started out with him hurting his knee yeah you know and then he came back after that and beat pettis which was pretty extraordinary but then when he had that gaethje fight the gaethje fight was rough yeah that was rough painful to watch as well and i love tony ferguson i think the fact that khabib never happened that was that was such a bummer that was one of the all-time bummers when he tore his knee backstage just tripping on a wire just some unforeseen accident guy gets through entire training camp no problems trips on a wire and rips his knee crazy Crazy. He needs surgery. Just nuts. But in terms of batting, do you think you bet on the young guy coming up?

Oh, who knows, man. Tony still has a lot in the tank. He looked good in his last fight against Bobby Green. Bobby Green's just so fast. Such a good striker. So unorthodox. You know, I think Tony still has something left.

Whether he's got enough to beat a guy like that, that's what makes it exciting because it's a good challenge for Patty. It's a good fight for Tony in terms of where he stands. Because Patty hasn't fought the elite of the elite, that division yet, the Gamarats, these guys that, challenging soon for a world title. Because there's a few of these guys out there that are just like super high level guys. And Paddy is like, you know, he's making his way up towards those guys. And this is a big step.

Well, Fazeev, that what happened against Gamera was so disappointing. Such a bummer, man, because Fazeev is so good. He's such a good striker. That was one of the most impressive Justin Gaethje performances that he outstruck Fazeev. That was a really impressive performance. And then the Dustin Poirier fight was incredible. The fact that that happened in Salt Lake City and it's a mirror image of the Leon Edwards,

Kamaru Usman knockout in Salt Lake City. Crazy. Head kick knockouts in the world title. That Leon Edwards fight was so crazy i i almost turned it off towards the end because i was like this is over you know yeah the greatest call in the history of sports john annick says that is not the cloth from which he is cut and then boom he lands that head kick because they were talking about him like phoning it in from now on you know just just trying to survive and accepting his defeat. John Anik says that, and then he lands a perfect head kick

right afterwards. It was bananas. He doesn't really get the credit that he deserves, Leon Edwards. Oh, Leon Edwards? Yeah. No, Leon Edwards. I think he's getting it now. I think the Kamaru Usman rematch just showed that Kamaru was very cautious about engaging. It was like a different

fight than the first fight. Also, his takedown defense is on point. He's getting way better at grappling, which showed in the first Kamaru Usman fight because he took Kamaru down, which is crazy. Nobody saw that coming. It mounted him. Everybody's like, whoa, this is crazy.

This is the first round of this fight? Leon's good, man. He's so technical. His striking is so smooth. Him hitting the pads, he's like one of the most impressive guys I've ever seen hit the pads. His flow, like between elbows, punches, and kicks, it's just everything is perfect technique.

Snap, bop, bop. Snap, bop, bop. Stop, stop, stop, stop. It's beautiful to watch. And you add that with takedown defense and experience, and now the confidence that comes with being a champion, whoo, he's fucking good.

How much does that change things? Because I think in a lot of things, confidence and the knowledge that you've achieved something changes everything. Well, they're all very skillful at that level, and everybody has a strong mind at that level. But being a champion, there's an aura that comes from the champions

that you have to overcome like when people fought khabib they weren't just fighting the champion they weren't just fighting khabib never met off in his skills they were fighting this fucking force that they knew they were going to face that nobody else has been able to no one's been able to do anything to him except glace and t-bow that was a very close fight but other than that like he's steamrolling everybody he's fucking everybody up and you know it and you know it and you're you're facing this guy's undefeated and he just seems to be getting better with every fight there's there's an aura of those guys that you have to overcome as well as beating them you have to overcome this aura and everybody thinks you have no chance you're going into this fucking battleground with this

guy who's like the most feared warrior in your division. Guy's been able to dominate the division. You have to overcome that. And Leon is now becoming that. He's become, you know, when he beat Kamaru the second time, everybody's like, oh, boy. Okay. And then if he can beat Colby Covington, that's a big one. That's an exciting fight.

That's a big one. That's a big one because Colby puts that fucking pressure on you. He's got an endless gas tank. He's like an energizer bunny. He just doesn't stop. His cardio is so good. His wrestling is so good. He's just constant, and he just stays in your face.

He just drains you. He just drains people. Kamaru's been the only guy that's been able to figure that out. There's some people who've got an aura about them, that it's undeniable. And whatever sport it is, at the moment they step onto the field or into the ring, there's just something about them that is undeniable.

Yeah. And you just go, I don't know. Even if you don't know who the person is, you're immediately drawn to them. Yeah, well, that's also one of the things that's exciting about the sport is that there are those people that just get to this spot where they just rise above to the point where you can't wait to watch. Like Volkanovski, can't wait to watch him perform again.

Like, damn, he's on it right now. That guy's on it. Anderson Silva, when he was in his prime, was like that. John Jones, when he was the light heavyweight champion, was like that. perform again like damn he's he's on it right now yeah that guy's on it you know anderson silva when he was in his prime was like that john jones when he was the light heavyweight champion was like that you know it's like damn this guy's on it like he's in that zone where like the greatness lies you know it's not just being the best in the world but handily defeating anybody who dares challenge him yeah when we had Dan Hardy on, we asked him what it was like to go into the fight against Georges St-Pierre,

and I think he said something like he kind of, I don't remember exactly what he said, but he kind of hinted that, you know, you're aware of the fact that this guy is, you know, at that level. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's a crazy sport, man. It's the most primal of all sports.

I love it. You want to talk about the need for wild people. That's the only way you get a sport like that. Yeah. You have to have wild people, man. It's the most primal. I love it. I love it. You want to talk about the need for wild people. That's the only way you get a sport like that. Yeah. You have to have wild people, man. Well, you know what? I think in some ways the rise of the UFC, obviously, you know, Dana White and his team have done a great job and it's a fascinating sport. But I think partly it's like as the culture gets pussified, people are crying out for something wild like that and they want to watch that.

Yeah. You know? are crying out for something wild like that and they want to watch that yeah you know in a world that's getting softer and less resilient as we talked about earlier you want to see that shit yeah there's that that's why people like fights in hockey people like people like watching rugby and football yeah they still like a little chaos some some aggressive energy yeah they're like men being men they're like men going to war it's why like you know when you watch the new zealand rugby team they're all blacks they do the hacker before they play it's the war dance so scary yeah the rock is so awesome yeah i love it

it's so awesome yeah yeah i wonder you know what this means for our society, you know, like the fact that these two things are happening at the same time, that there is this blowback where people do still want to watch wild, crazy things. They still want to hear wild, crazy things. And then there's this push towards neutering of masculine energy and the term toxic male energy and you know this idea that anything masculine is inherently negative and it's so crazy man it's so dangerous because if you're telling young boys oh yeah that they are inherently evil and wrong and dangerous then you are essentially alienating a very dangerous section of society, number one. And number two, somebody is going to step in and go, hey, you know what? They think you're bad, right? So why don't we do some fucking damage? And Jordan coming along was a healthy version

of a response, right? Saying to men, be responsible, take accountability, go and create things, go and be the strongest man at your father's funeral all that that was healthy now we're also getting a lot of the less healthy responses as well in terms of you know people who are becoming big in that space i feel well you're always going to get people you know people don't feel represented yeah yeah that's when when when you're saying that everything that they like and everything that they are is just negative no matter what, they don't feel represented. When someone comes along and challenges that, even if that person's a grifter, you latch onto that.

Because when you make certain arguments beyond the pale and those arguments have merit and value, but you're not allowed to say those arguments anymore. It gives them an appeal. It gives them an appeal. It gives them an appeal, number one. And number two, you are going to get someone from outside the mainstream coming along and going, yeah, they're talking nonsense to you, and here's the truth.

And it is true. And that's magnetic. I wonder what's going to happen with this, you know, there's clearly, when you see what's going on with Canada with the podcast thing, trying to get people to register their podcasts. I think there's a crazy fine too, for violating it. I think that fine might be something crazy, like $250,000 or something. It's like a very high fine. See what the fine is for violating the rules. But when you, you get stuff like that, when you, it you – I wonder what's going to prevail.

What is going to prevail? Is free discourse and free speech going to prevail? Or are we going to go full combi? Are we going to go full censorship? Because if we do, if we cross a line where you really can silence people, if we cross a line where we can use dirty tricks and tactics to eliminate anybody that doesn't think the way you think and whether it's through censoring them on social media or you know with their intelligence agencies step in and tell you to remove posts because they you know they go against the narrative that the government is

trying to push like that is fucking scary well I think the thing the thing you hit the nail on the head Francis earlier when you were talking about how they're changing the concept of safety, that's what we have to push back against because there's this idea. If you hear opinions, you don't like of people are talking in a way that you don't like that makes you unsafe. Right. And we have to say that is fucking bullshit.

Yeah, that's fucking bullshit. We have to say that. Yeah. And that's, that's to me because all they do say that. Yeah. And that's, to me, because all they do is they redefine the word

and then they weaponize it against you. Yeah, they say the words are violence and of course you're against violence, right? Right. Yeah, violence is bad. No one knows sport and violence. But yeah, but here's the thing. You can only make the argument

that words are violence if you've never been punched in the face. Right. Right, and a lot of people have been punched in the face. And a lot of people have and a lot of people could benefit from that well my fear is that a real war breaks out that's my fear my fear is that we are beating the drums of a real war a real war involving superpowers and a real war involving involving technology beyond our comprehension including hypersonic missiles

they can change direction in air and you can't track them you don't know where they're going you know you can't do anything to shoot them out of the sky they're just moving too fast yeah and they hit cities boom boom boom and then we're fucked you know and then you're i mean i don't even know if it helps to have masculine men then i don't know if it helped what helps if you then. I don't know what helps. If you can get to a point where you can debilitate a country's infrastructure, kill their power grid, you know, remove them from the Internet, remove their ability to communicate with each other, that's not that –

I mean, that's totally believable. That's not an impossible scenario where precise strikes, even if they just decided not to kill everybody, they just decided to destroy the power grid and destroy the infrastructure and kill the internet and kill the pipelines. I mean, look what they did with the Nord Stream pipeline. What if they decide to do that with all kinds of gas and oil pipelines? What if they decide to do that and shut down power plants and do so in a way that we're left powerless. We have nothing. What are we going to do? We're going to rise up against who? They'll literally starve you out.

They'll shut down the infrastructure of the country. How would the country work if there's no power? I mean, how long do we have if the whole country, if the whole grid gets wiped out? Let's just imagine an attack. Even if it's just some sort of a very complicated cyber attack that wipes out the whole grid. How long can we survive with no power? You know, the grid's very vulnerable. Texas almost lost its grid here because it got too cold. We came that close, that close to because we're independent from the rest of the country in terms of the grid if the Texas grid Was like they were very close to like losing everything. It's like how many people die then it's fucking freezing cold No one has a fireplace anymore Yeah, how many didn't let you build a house with like a real wood fireplace in a lot of places?

I know in California you can't. So if it's cold, you're fucked. You're going to freeze to death. People were freezing to death. That can happen. The power goes out and you fucking freeze to death. That's a reality of life in 2023. And it's also as well, we've all become de-skilled as a population.

We're so dependent on this technology like think if you went trying time traveling right and you went back a thousand years and people go to you what's going on and you'd be like we've got all this amazing stuff we do this oh yeah how does it work i'd be like i don't know i'll just switch it on and it works right Right. Yeah. I just do a podcast. Yeah. If you left me alone on an island with all the books that have ever been written for a million years, I'd never figure out how to make the internet. Right. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. Who? What? You're going to do what? 5G? What does that mean? Satellites? What the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah. I have to fly a metal piece high enough in the sky that it's weightless and it just spins around the earth? What? And we all take this stuff for granted as well. We're all like, oh yeah, this is just normal.

This is entirely normal and this is just our society and this is what I was born into and this is always going to be this way. It's like, no. Well, look, we're victims of our own success, right? Because we've built these amazing things

and they're good things to have, right? Having a power grid is good. But we've got to also be smart. And one of the things we're finally starting to realize, at least in the UK, where we went super crazy on this net zero stuff is you have to produce your own energy. You have to have control of that.

Otherwise, where are you buying it from? Who are you buying it from? And what are they going to do to use the fact that you're buying the energy from them against you? Yeah. And there's so many problems. There's so many problems with just the way human beings acquire minerals that need to go into cell phones. The cobalt problem, the fact that everybody's phone has this element in it that comes from people literally digging it out of the ground in mines that are working in like the most horrible conditions imaginable and that this has been documented. And lithium too. Yep.

Lithium too. I mean a lot of the lithium that actually we need is in eastern Ukraine. It's one of the reasons that shit is going on. I think it was going to be the second biggest producer of lithium in the world after China. You sound conspiracy theorist Just tune in to CNBC and shut your brain off. Yeah, man Yeah But yeah with the the net zero stuff actually scares me because it's it well climate change is kind of a cult in and of itself Yeah, you know because that's also a thing where people aren't willing to listen at all to people with opposing viewpoints.

And then if you do, you are now a climate denier. Just like how if you were kind of like, hey, what's going on with these mRNA vaccines? Oh, you're anti-vax. Like, oh, what? What happened there? How did you sneak that in? Like, what are you saying? Yeah.

How did you sneak that in? Like, what are you saying? Yeah. Like, if you are curious about whether or not all this stuff that you're offering up as a solution is actually willing, is that actually going to be effective? If everybody stops eating meat, how much does that change? And what are you going to do about China and India and their output? How much CO2 is actually in the atmosphere? And how much do you need in the atmosphere? Isn't there a certain amount you need?

What percentage are we above what we used to be? It turns out it's like 0.04 is what we are now and we used to be 0.03 and at 0.02 plant life starts to die because there's not enough carbon dioxide. It's like what percentage of that is human beings? That's a good question and what percentage of it is the rest of the world and what percentage of it are we going to save by ruining everything here in the western world right well so in the uk we have this obsession about net zero and i'm like okay let's get our emissions down to zero let's say britain produces no carbon emissions at all

and the ones that we outsource abroad that's two percent of global carbon emissions you just fucked our country to make no difference whatsoever to the problem well the big the big polluter or the big contributor to the biggest by far is china and india yeah they're the two biggest and if they're gonna keep doing it which they are which they are seems like what we need to do i mean this sounds very simple from a moron like myself. Is invade India and China. They need to figure out technologies to clean the air. Yeah. And that doesn't seem impossible.

In fact, there was some talk of a giant skyscraper that acted as an air filter. And that they were going to install it. Remember those, Jamie? Yeah. See if you can find that. There's talk of construction. It might have been in China. And that they were going to install it. Remember those, Jamie? Yeah. See if you can find that. There's talk of construction. It might have been in China.

They were going to build these essentially skyscrapers that were really just giant air filters. And that instead of a skyscraper that housed office buildings or people, it actually housed equipment that just sucked pollution out of the air and filtered it. And you're like, hmm, maybe that's it. Maybe that would work. Maybe you could actually capture. There it is. The skyscraper-sized air purifier is the world's tallest. Wow.

So what if they just had those on every block or had those every X amount of blocks where they figured out a way to clean the air? Okay, it can reduce pollution in major metropolitan areas by 20%, for example. If. If we can. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I like to tell my students we don't need to be medical doctors to save lives. Dr. David Pooley, professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Minnesota and one of the researchers.

So if they could just reduce air pollution by 20%, for example, we could save tens of thousands of lives a year. Okay. Yeah, So this seems like it's about air pollution, but your point about China and India, Joe, is so right, because I was talking to an Indian dude, and he told me that the time of partition, this is 1947, when India became independent, average life expectancy in India, Jamie, fact check me if you could, please, but I think it was 37 years, right? Fast fast forward to today it's over 80 you think those people are going to give up burning shit to to live longer you think they're going to do that because i don't think they will i don't think the chinese are going to stop making

stuff and producing stuff and burning stuff well i don't think the people have a say over there in china that's true yeah particularly but it's a big part of it right like there's not going to be some movement against the government. I've checked both on the net zero plan. To reach net zero emissions by 2060, the report estimates China needs between U.S. $14 to $17 trillion

in addition to investments for green infrastructure and technology in the power and transport sectors alone. It seems like quite a lot of money to me. Yeah. Okay, so Xi Jinping said, since September of 2020, when China's president, Xi Jinping,

made the pledge to reach net zero by 2060, the country's ministers and locales have been mobilized to devise decarbonization roadmaps for their jurisdictions. Maybe they can do that. Maybe they can... I mean, maybe there's technologies that either haven't been implemented

or just theoretical where they can figure out a way to clean it up without destroying their economy. You know, and that might be possible. I don't know. But it's certain that human beings are having an effect. I mean, like specifically with pollution and not just that, not just the air. We certainly should be looking at carbon dioxide and certainly should be looking at humans impact

We also be looking at what the fuck we're doing in the ocean. Yeah, we're killing the ocean We're filling it up with garbage and literally killing most of the species We were just talking about the other day that there's they don't really know what the real numbers are But they think it's estimated that we've killed somewhere in the neighborhood of like 80 to 90 percent of the fish Yeah, I what? stupid fish out killing everything and Giant fucking country-sized floating garbage islands, you know like what I mean Did the island of the Pacific garbage patch is bigger than Texas. Texas is bigger than multiple European countries.

And that patch of garbage is bigger than that. Yeah. You know, the thing that I find really, really demoralizing about this debate is the fact that the complete lack of critical thinking skills. People on the left, therefore, they think this. People on the right, they think this. I know I'm not going to mention this person's name. They came on your pod and they were like, well, I think, you know, it doesn't exist, climate change. And that person thought that way, I think, a lot of it is because they were on the right.

You know, so they see the way the tribe moves. They move with the tribe instead of actually taking every issue, looking at it themselves, doing the reading, doing the work, and then going, well, this is what I think, regardless of this tribe or that tribe. Yeah. Yeah. If you're on the left, you think climate change is imperative. If you're on the right, think climate change is imperative if you're on the right you're probably more dismissive of it you know certainly we should really look at nuclear power yeah nuclear power seems to be the cleanest way to do this and it's safe in relative

it's safe it's uh i always make this joke it's not well you say that but actually if you look at the casualties from nuclear disasters there's only been three major ones, right? Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. If you look at the stats and you add it all up, nuclear energy is safer than hydro. One dam collapse in China killed way more people than all the nuclear disasters put together. Yeah. The real issue, though, is it ruins that area forever So like no one's moving in a Chernobyl. That's true. No one Fukushima's fucked

Yeah, like that place is fucked like when when they do go south they go bad It went to the point where a friend of mine who's this brilliant guy says you won't eat fish from the Pacific anymore And I said why and he said Fukushima he goes the I don't think they're they're testing He goes, I don't think they're testing for it. I don't think they're testing for radiation poisoning. I don't think they've measured it. He goes, what if it's a lot worse than we think it is and we find this out 10, 15 years from now? He goes, maybe I'm wrong.

He goes, I just don't want to take a chance. So I don't eat fish from the Pacific. I'm like, Jesus. I never even thought of that. That's a fair point. Yeah. I don't know if it is. I mean, is that ridiculous? I mean, how much of an impact does Fukushima have on the entire mass of the Pacific Ocean?

No, I mean your fair point about you can't live in that area for a very, very, very, very long time. Yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah, I mean hundreds of thousands of years, right? Those areas are ruined. But the thing is they can mitigate that now, and they can figure out a way to have nuclear power plants with better failsafe Than they had in Fukushima Fukushima They had like a backup and that got crushed too and then they're fucked because they can't shut it off

And then you know you have this reactor that you can't shut down and it's just chaos I mean Chernobyl they had to work really hard to make that thing blow up It was like incompetence and all sorts of other dynamics going on there was pretty fucked up. What's wild now is there's things living there it's like who knows what kind of crazy mutation Godzilla type shit is going on there do you know there's a there's an animal sanctuary area in the red forest and it's one of the safest areas for wildlife in the world because there's no humans there Wow but has anybody measured the effects of radiation on those animals i i mean some of them are getting affected obviously but they're not getting shot by humans is the point right but what if you're developing like telepathy

you know in comic books radiation always leads to awesome things that's how you become spider-man exactly you know that's how you become the hulk the X-Men. Yeah, maybe that's China. Maybe that's Russia's. Maybe that's the next stage of the war. Isn't that odd? It's in Ukraine. Oh, yeah. All of the problems in comic books, like with radiation,

it's all like someone becomes a superhero. Now they have these powers and they have to, well, I guess I have to save the world. But in real life, you're just fucked. Yeah. Maybe that's what we need to solve our problems is to spy the squirrel from chernobyl yeah maybe we need aliens maybe that's what we need maybe they need to come down and go settle the fuck down yeah this is maybe we just need beings who are

just way smarter than us just to go you are a bunch of incompetent chimps shut up and i will deal with it what do you think about all this uap stuff when you see this I mean I don't like that they changed it from UFO to UAP that's annoying because I know what you're doing just coming up with new clever ways to make it less ridiculous to the world but what do you think about all this disclosure stuff the thing that makes me skeptical is UFO sightings are so disproportionately in North America. We're enthusiasts. You guys love a conspiracy theory.

We love a UFO. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, and it's never in New York either. You know what I mean? There's a few. Is there a few? Yeah, it happens in New York.

There's been sightings. But also, people like. That's a problem. The amount of really good footage is the the compelling stuff is the stuff the fighter jets capture that's compelling like the tic-tac footage that's compelling you know when they talk about the the amount of g-force that would be involved and something moving in that way like most things that we have would just fall apart like this what is moving that quickly is the is the all of the sensors are all those accurate or all those detection systems and all the radar and tracking is all that accurate because if it is accurate like what the fuck can move that quick like explain that what is that and if that's ours like who, if they've managed to hide some sort of super sophisticated propulsion system that's beyond our comprehension, like beyond, nothing you could imagine, and that they've been working on this for decades, and that that's what all this UFO talk is.

There you mean the government? The government, yeah. Some black ops program, some special top secret shit where they're in the middle of the desert. They figure out a propulsion system that works on gravity. But could they keep that secret for that long? That's the thing, man. You know, because it's easy to go down this route and go the government are keeping things secret and of course the government do and of course they're cover-ups.

But if there's one thing I can know from the Britishish government it's just that they can never cover anything up you know what i mean for that incompetent yeah right but that's the legislators and the senate and the congress what about the fucking people that are involved in the highest levels of the military i bet they keep a lot of good secrets i bet they're real good at it especially people that are working with defense contractors like if they they really did receive a crashed UFO and they were back engineering it, it would be a national security imperative for us to get that first. If there's some craft that came here from Alpha Centauri and they've managed to get a hold of it and they're trying to figure out how that thing works, you better shut the fuck up until we figure this out. And I think that would be like if you were a patriot and you were working for the government, you would, you would keep your fucking mouth shut.

That was your job. Also, they're, they're looking at every email you send, every text message you send. They probably got your house bugged. If you talk about it, they're going to know. Yeah. I think it's possible to keep secrets as much as people want to think that it's not, but I don't know. I don't know what the fuck is going on. And part part of me is like they're talking about it too much you

know part of me is like show me something show me something like I don't want to go all this talk like even David Grush he never saw anything he just uncovered programs that he found who knows who gave him that information I mean if I wanted to fucking put out some disinformation i would encourage someone to be a whistleblower that's what i would do i would tell them some nonsense and encourage them to tell everybody else and then it discredits the whole thing yeah it makes the whole thing like preposterous or it also can cover up this other thing that you have going on you say oh these are off-world crafts can't be ours meanwhile it is ours like one of the things that's happening that's

weird is they're always in these areas where the military operates like off the coast of the east coast where um um they've seen those things is it like a cube inside a circle is that what it is it's either a cube inside a circle or a circle inside a cube but they keep seeing these things that can hover at 120 knots completely still, move off faster than the eye can see. And this is something that Ryan Graves experienced. He didn't experience it. He experienced it on his sensors. They upgraded their sensors, and I think it was 2014. And almost immediately, they started spotting these things that just violated everything that they knew about the way objects could move and and behave what do you make of this argument I can't remember who's made it but it's the idea that if we were to encounter an alien

species if they reached here they would be so technologically advanced they could do whatever the fuck they wanted basically maybe or maybe there's like levels like we are at right maybe there's like if we are going to eventually travel to other planets and establish a civilization other planets or visit other planets how long is that when's that going to be is that 100 years from now is it 50 maybe that's where they are maybe there's some that are a thousand years more advanced maybe there's some that are millions of years maybe some of them live in a solar system that's much more stable and it doesn't have the problem that we have with asteroids.

Maybe there's less collisions, so they're allowed to reach this technological level of sophistication that's evolving over millions of years. And they're like gods. We can't even fathom the kind of technology they have available. Well, we would imagine that if we keep going, we're going to hit that. But maybe as well they don't have the capacity for self-destruction that the human being does. Right. Maybe they've engineered that out. Maybe that's part of the feminization of males.

Maybe that's part of the – for real. Maybe that's part of all this gender chaos. Maybe that's part of the microplastics that are endocrine disruptors that are fucking pesticides and all sorts of other things that are fucking with people's reproductive systems maybe it's like a natural gradual change that the species must take in order to evolve to the next stage that it has to like sacrifice its lust and anger and fury and all these chimpanzee instincts that are really associated with dominant male hormones and Primate behavior that we see in the jungle

Yeah, but can we operate as a as a as a species without those I would argue that we can't this one at this point I when president We can with President AI. When President AI is elected. Joe's telling you who to vote for, everybody. When President AI takes over. Our benevolent overlord. It'll make people eat credit cards every day so that your body will develop more microplastics and shrink your testes.

Yeah. I don't know. You know, I wonder. I wonder what's happening. You know, I think it's happening very quickly. And it's hard because we're in the storm. We're in the middle of a storm watching it But if you look at the amount of change that's taking place in human culture just over the past 20 30 years

It's kind of unprecedented since the the emergence of the internet. There's been never been anything like this Yeah, it's it feels like we're living in a culture which has hit the fast-forward button Mm-hmm, and it's out of control like we're living in a culture which has hit the fast forward button. And is out of control. Like we're on the roller coaster ride. We used to be going like this. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. Now we're going like this. Yeah!

And, you know, I don't know where it goes. I think part of it is we've got to fix the outrage machine that we've got, which is corporate media, social media, the way we communicate about things, about ideas. This is why I have hope for new media. We don't always get things right, of course, but it's an opportunity to change the conversation, to have more of this, to have more long form stuff, to pursue the truth. Whereas right now, the incentives, and Francis said said earlier, it's a phrase I repeat all the time, human beings respond to incentives. And right now, being outraged and being outrageous is what's rewarded and being calm, being sensible, being reasonable, listening to other people. That isn't the thing that we've been doing for the last 20, 30 years, we've been doing the opposite

of that. And I think we have to find a way to change the incentive structure of the internet whereby we're not incentivized to be our worst selves. We've got to do that. If we don't do that, we're going to destroy ourselves long before any fucking aliens get here, man. And that's my worry, man. To go back to your metaphor about the rollercoaster, we are on the

world. But I'm going to be honest with you, mate. I'm looking down and I'm like, is there a track? No. We've never, is there a track? No. We've never experienced this before, right? As far as we know, the human race has never experienced anything like this before. This connectedness. It's strange. But every informational revolution, I mean, people have always talked about this example of the printing press, right?

Right. You have solely the church that controls all information most people are literate and then you get the printing press and you start spreading information to more people and there's more perspectives and then you get two centuries of religious warfare that's what you get books about witches yeah do you know that was one of the first uh things that people did when they started using the printing press you think oh they're writing all these great books about philosophy and psychology.

Nope, nope. How to spot a witch. It's something that we can all get behind, man. And it encourages our worst instincts and we'll be like, you know what? All the problems in the society, it's their fault. Yeah. There's a lot of witch hunting going on right now, man.

There's a lot of witch hunting. I mean, J.K. Rowling is a witch. Like, how did that happen? You know what I mean? Like, she was this most progressive, cool, lefty person. Says one thing about trans, boom, she's a Nazi. Yeah. How did that happen?

I don't know. It's the Wild West out there right now. And everyone just fucking went along with it. Like, the mainstream media went along with it. Controversial author. What? What? I know. Hitler never went, you know, I'm going to take over the world.

I'm going to write some beloved children's books. Yeah, it's someone violating the orthodoxy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and there was part of me who thought, OK, now she's come out. We're going to have a modicum of sanity. That's what I genuinely thought when I was naive and more stupid. Look, we should say we are actually making progress in the UK on that issue.

We really are. On the trans issue, we're making progress. You guys have shut down all those clinics. We shut down the clinic and the rules and laws are starting to change and we're starting to be sensible. So maybe the great hope is we kind of overreached and now we're reining it back in a little bit. It's not the case here from what i can tell doesn't seem to be the case here at all no i mean it's coming straight from the white house yeah yeah yeah that's terrifying man that's you know it's so interesting

like now that our show has become bigger and people recognize us i get a lot of especially gay people coming up to me to talk to me to me, to thank me and us for what we do. This this young lady came up to me. She was like she was American. She must be in her like sort of mid to late 20s. And she was like, you know, if I was born 10 years younger and she's a gay woman, she goes, I would have been screaming the house down at my parents. I would have been demanding a double mastectomy. would have been screaming the house down at my parents i would have been demanding a double mastectomy i would have been demanding puberty blockers because i was so miserable and distressed and deeply unhappy at the fact that i was a gay girl yeah yeah that's a lot of the way a lot of

gay people feel about this whole movement that in some ways it's kind of homophobic because it's saying you're not gay you're just in the wrong body. And so many of them are autistic as well. This is what we are not taking into account quite often. We've had lots of people on the show to talk about this. A lot of these kids are autistic. A lot of these people, particularly the girls, they would have had anorexia or bulimia before that. They would have had something else.

It's just a way of people showing distress about what it's like to be a young woman. It's not exactly a great time to be a young woman when it comes to body image, when it comes to the perception and the reality of how men and women relate in our society and all of that, right? And a lot of the young men, what's happening is they're being praised for this choice.

There's social credit to being, you know, identifying in a different way. Yeah. And it's really credit to being, you know, identifying in a different way. Yeah. And it's really sad, man, because it affects everything. I was doing a gig a few weeks ago and there was a comic on the bill, an older gay guy. And like, you know, the classic look over the shoulder both ways. And he sat down and started talking to me. And this is a guy whose partner's experienced the AIDS pandemic.

So a lot of his friends die. guy whose partners experienced the AIDS pandemic saw a lot of his friends die his partner was basically given a flat near to the hospital because at that stage of the in the 80s and the 90s it was like look you've got this virus you're gonna die so have a have a flat near to the hospital where you can get treatment and then when you die at least you'll be comfortable and he looked to me and he was talking about everything that was going on, going to Pride marches. He was like, it's a really bad time to be gay. He went, I went to Manchester Pride. And this woman got up on stage and she brought her six-year-old daughter with her,

held her up to the crowd and went, this is my daughter. She's a little gay girl. And the entire crowd cheered. And he went, I was just there going you're sexualizing your daughter what are you doing right you're saying you're six years old attracted to women yeah yeah and then and then people are cheering and going this is great and he's like no it's not you know brett said something to me when i had my son he said congratulations your heart is now outside of your body and that is me, the great hope on some of these issues

is like people's love for their children is such a powerful force and it can be a force for good too. And we've seen a lot of feminists stand up on this stuff in the UK and a lot of parents as well because you know what it's like and you're a father of girls, right? It's now many people's's one of their greatest nightmares about what could happen to their children you know um so then if your children get indoctrinated into something like this and make some change to their life that is permanent and that people are

encouraging them to do that at pre pre-teen yeah you know it's it's crazy and it's something that we've always known that children don't have the ability to see the future yeah you don't like that's why you don't allow them to get tattooed that's why you know it's like but with this they're like no no no they know yeah and it's and the fact that it's become so party political here is i think why you're not making as much progress in america on this issue because it's like so party political here is, I think, why you're not making as much progress in America on this issue. Because it's like you're on the right, you're against. You're on the left, you're for. Why don't we just look at what is medically correct?

What is good? What is bad? What damages people? What helps people? Let's take some fucking time. No, people don't even want to look at the side effects of some of these medications they're giving kids. Because it's too painful, John. They're sterilizing.

They are ruining their bodies permanently. It reduces their life expectancy. I mean, Chloe Cole and there's lots of other detransitioners. You listen to their testimony. The scary thing is the detransitioners get attacked. Yeah. They talk about their own personal experiences and the regret of transitioning, and they get attacked.

Yeah, because they've somehow got internalized transphobia now and it's i just i really hope that we just wake up from this that we wake up from this and that's the thing that's great about the uk is that we do have left-wing politicians like rosie duffield who have come out and spoken about this honestly and she is a hero she She's an absolute hero because she has been called all manner of names by her own party. She's been attacked, yet she has stood firm. What a hero.

Well, I hope people wake up here too. Yeah. How do you think that happens? I guess just talking about it. I guess the discussion moving from it being orthodoxy that you can't question to people seeing detransitioners seeing problems with that we know with children being malleable and easily influenced and seeing

people that might just be a feminine man that might be gay and you're turning them into a woman and forcing them to get castrated and yeah this idea that you know you're not a man if you don't like you know you know climbing trees and cutting down logs and all of this nonsense it's just so backwards i thought we'd overcome that i thought you could be a feminine guy who loved writing poetry and was more sensitive and that was great and that's just another type of man yeah it used to be maybe it will be again maybe it will be again yeah uh listen guys it's always beautiful to talk to you i really appreciate you guys brother it's great to be back thank you it's lovely man your show's awesome it's very good it keeps getting better trigonometry you can it's on

youtube you get you guys get dinged on youtube at all um i don't think we do at the moment no we get you know occasional episode demonetized but we're kind of used to it at this point you know no we're loving it uh we've got as i said we've got new shows coming with different people we're going to expand and grow beautiful and spread this message yeah um all right well thank you for being here thank you thanks for having my pleasure all right bye everybody