The Joe Rogan Experience - #2052 - Shane Dorian

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Shane Dorian is a former WSL Championship surfer and is now considered by many to be one of the best big wave riders in the world. 

the Joe Rogan experience good to see you thanks what's the latest and your greatest lots of stuff man I feel like I don't know I feel like normally I don't have that much that's the latest and greatest but yeah a lot's been happening i've been crazy busy but all good stuff so nothing to complain about what's been happening what's crazy busy um let's see in the last last three months four months been to mexico twice el salvador once california four or five times, Indonesia for a month, Tahiti, France, Mexico. Damn, son. Yeah.

World traveler. A lot. What have you been doing? A lot of surfing. Yeah? A lot of surfing. How's your knee? It's great.

Is it 100%? It's amazing. It's not 100%, but I never thought it would be this good again, honestly. It's really really really good i've slight range of motion that's not as good as as the other which is soup you know to be expected but it's great i surf with no brace i snowboard with no brace um i go hunting all the time with no brace i never i never i never really think about it which is amazing for people who don't know uh you were in a snowboarding accident and you fucking demolished your knee. Yeah, I ran right into a tree. Wrapped my knee around a tree.

Always my fear when I see people skiing and snowboarding. I quit skiing because of an accident. I fucked my knee up and I cracked my shin bone. I got an insufficiency fracture in the top of my shin bone. I was like, that's it. I'm done. I'm done with this. Yeah, I love snowboarding. i'm not giving it up so i'm uh but yeah like to answer your to answer your question i'm i'm really happy

with the way my knee healed up so i yeah it was a shitty experience of that whole process how long did it take you to fully heal probably 18 months yeah wow but i was really really um I you know I really followed the pro I followed all the physical therapy and all the protocol and I I you know I did every single thing I could to help it out like you like you rang me and said let's do that let's get some stem cells underneath so like I came twice here guys at ways too Well helped me out with that, and I had great results from that. I actually felt, like, the difference, which is amazing. But it healed great.

You were saying that was the turning point, like the Ways to Well, like that this is one of the things that really pushed you over the edge where it really felt like it was healing. Yeah. I mean, I went to a great surgeon, and he does these things all the time with great success. I have a lot of friends who've had that exact same surgery from him, so I was really confident. What was the extent of the injury?

I got full repairs of my ACL and my MCL. They both basically blew off. Yeah. So they took my patellar tendon and split it in thirds and then built new ligaments out of that. So the MCL and the ACL out of patellar tendon and split it in thirds and then built new ligaments out of that. So the MCL and the ACL out of patellar tendon? Yeah. How much does that compromise the patellar tendon?

It doesn't really. Because I had a patellar tendon graft on my left knee and it took forever to heal. Where on my right knee, I had a cadaver, which only took like six months. Yeah. I think using a cadaver, you, you heal much faster. Yeah. But yeah. Why did they decide to do that with you? Just because like that specific injury that I had, like I, I, like I spoke to my surgeon, really good guy named, uh, um, Warren Kramer out of California. Um, and he said, look, we have a couple of different options here you can choose.

And he just kind of ran me through and he said, if it was my knee, I would use a patellar tendon. He goes, it'll take longer to heal, but you'll be rock solid. And like the way he explained is, is the patellar tendon is pretty wide and really, really strong. So even though you're taking a third from one side and a third from the other side, the, it doesn't really compromise the integrity of the actual tendon. And it's weird the way your body is able to turn that tendon into ligaments. Isn't that strange? It is. So they take a tendon and then they make ligaments. Well, they put it in place

where you used to have these ligaments and your body accepts it over time as a ligament. Yeah. Well, with the cadaver thing, one of the weird things is that your body uses it as a scaffolding and then re-proliferates it with its own tissue so it's not like you have this cadaver tendon inside of you gotcha because i have an achilles tendon that's what it started out with that was that's what replaced my acl my right knee oh wow there's some dead dude it took his achilles tendon because your achilles is 150 stronger apparently once they do that then the original acl and then they just screw that sucker in place and dude i was good to go quick i went to a party without a brace five days later after surgery wow i was out i was i was in

bad shape for a long time yeah i was with my left knee yeah my left knee was in agony for a long time because they have to saw the fucking piece out of the bone and the piece out of the bone of your shin and screw the both of them in place yeah i couldn't go on my knees i couldn't do anything if i had to kneel down i couldn't do anything for like a year the pain from waking up after surgery was so brutal i had no idea how bad it was going to be. It sucked. It's intense. Like, really bad. Yeah, for me, it was one of the only times I ever took painkillers. Yeah. And the painkillers made me feel so stupid.

It was, whatever, I can't remember if it was Percocets or Vicodin. Can't remember. But I remember I sold it to some dude at the pool hall. I love that. Yeah, some dude was like, I'll take them. All right, bye. I'll sell it to you. Yeah, some crazy junkie named Jeff.

Jeff the Junkie. Jeff the Junkie, yeah. I just threw painkillers in the trash this morning at my hotel. Nice. And I remember thinking, I just looked down as I was throwing them in the trash and thinking, man, there's probably people outside right now that would like do something terrible for those painkillers. I hate painkillers. I hate painkillers.

Yeah. I feel like you're either, you're like in one group or the other where like your body really loves painkillers, your brain, I guess, really loves painkillers or really doesn't. I'm definitely hate painkillers. Yeah. I didn't take anything for my right knee. I didn't take a goddamn thing. After the surgery, I was like, I'll just deal with pain. I remember what it was like taking them for my left yeah i was like fuck off

it doesn't jive with me it just makes me again i hear opiates are amazing i hear people that take like oxycontin they said it's amazing like oh my god it's so wonderful yeah like um i had peter berg on the podcast he's the guy that produced that Netflix series painkiller I listened to that was awesome he's amazing Peters amazing yeah but that painkiller show it's like so it's so eye-opening but he was saying that he took Oxycontin once recreationally and he was like oh my god this is so good I can never do this again. It just makes you feel so wonderful. You feel like you're slowly falling into a jar of honey,

like a warm jar of honey. That's a good way to describe it. But I don't feel like that. When I have to take a painkiller, I feel loopy and it feels nauseous. I feel, ugh, it was gross. Well, that's good. Yeah. Very grateful for that. Why did you, you needed them after stem cells? Is that what you needed? Yeah. So I just had stem cell treatment in Mexico. So you went to the CPI,

the cellular performance Institute in Mexico, and you just got hammered with them, right? Yeah. I was there for a week and it was intense. It was great. So yeah, so my treatment was pretty over the top. Not over the top, but for me it was a lot. I got both shoulders done, both knees, my right elbow, my lumbar spine and my cervical spine. I did the cervical spine and the lumbar. And when they do your spine, they put you out. So they put you under anesthesia. And then they do the rest of my body at that same time. And then because there were so many stem cells in my back, most of the time people wake up from that and they're really sore and a lot of pain.

And so they gave me some pain medication, which I sort of needed right when I woke up. But by the next morning, I was on like the Tylenol trip. So like things mellowed out really quick for me. So that was two weeks ago you said? Yeah, it was like 10 days ago now. 10 days ago. Yeah. Do you feel any difference?

Yes. So I'm not supposed to feel any different for like the first month. Like, you know, like these sort of stem cells are a little bit different that's my understanding at least so they're they're called a hypoxic stem cell and they're from cord blood so they're so they're from an umbilical cord um and i got 180 million stem cells injected and then i got 100 million stem cells in an IV. And so those kind of stem cells, they're called hypoxic, which is I think it means that they do really, really well under very low oxygen environments.

So they're able to live in my body for up to 12 months. Live, I don't know if that's the right word, but they stay active and growing in your body for 12 months. So, um, so now it's just a matter of me following the protocol, which is not that fun. And so the, the protocol involves essentially a lot of rest, right? You're, you're not supposed to train like what, what is the protocol? Yeah. So the protocol with these specific stem cells, like, because they, you know, sort of live so long in your body, body, the first two weeks is basically nothing. It's like maybe 15 minutes of like walking per day.

And then after that, you work with a physical therapist and you have very specific physical therapy. So it's like a lot of like stabilization stuff. Like I did my spine. So I was talking to Nikki Hind, who's my, my physical therapist. And so she's creating like a physical therapy schedule and program for me based around my spine. And she told me that she's, she's worked with some people who have had intense stem cell therapies. And it's like a pretty crazy opportunity to, to kind of, you have like a second chance, like at this age with my spine to like really change it the way it is. So I'm pretty excited about that. I have some like

degeneration and some bulging discs in my lower back. And then I have some, my upper back, my cervical spine is pretty fucked up from all the surfing wipeouts I've had. Whoa. So surfing wipeouts, like when you hit the ground and the water comes on top of you? Yeah, like falling off a 60-foot wave and hitting the surface of the water, that impact with the water moving at 30 miles an hour and you go in the other direction.

Ugh. Yeah. Fuck. So my neck is jacked up from a lot of that. And do they go right into the actual disc itself? So they go in. I know in my, I don't want to mess this up, right. But, um, I try to ask all the right questions and memorize everything. But, uh, I, um, I know in my cervical spine, they mostly did my facets, but in my lower back, I think they went straight in the discs. So they did my SI joint and then

like my C5, C4 is that's, I don't know if that sounds correct, but, um, so yeah, they did my SI joint and then like my C5, C4. I don't know if that sounds correct. So yeah, they did the discs. Wow. And is it supposed to make the discs expand? Yeah. And make it larger and so there's more cushion between the spinal column? Yeah, exactly. Wow. And they regrow tissue, they regrow ligaments.

And so where there's been a lot of wearing down, a lot of times it'll regrow that. So I did my MRIs before my treatment, and then I'll go back six months from now and get updated MRIs. They're really good about the data. So they want to see your progress. So the doctor will go over you with your new MRI six months from now and compare them exactly to the previous MRI and go, hey, here's where your knee was, or here's where your discs were, and here's where they are now. And so they tried, you know, that's the goal, right, is for you to see some major improvement. And is a part of the thing with not exercising at all, just make sure that you don't do any breaking down of the body while it's going through this process of accepting the stem cells?

Is that? Yeah, that's a good question. So the, my, my understanding is, so in your body, like the way an injury or like a torn ligament or a torn rotator cuff shows up in your body, it's just inflammation. And inflammation is like basically like a magnet for stem cells so the so the stem cells go exactly where they're needed in your body they're really smart so that so the stem cells were injected straight into the joints and into the areas of my body but um would you ask me again what was the question I said the idea of no extra yes Is it just like you just have no strain on the body whatsoever for a long time while these stem cells sort of just start doing their work? So what you don't want to do is create inflammation that wasn't there already because you want your stem cells to go to your inflammation that you already had beforehand, right?

So you want it to heal your body where you need it the most. inflammation that you already had beforehand, right? So you want it to heal your body where you need it the most. So you don't want it, like if I went like running 15 miles right now, my stem cells would get confused and trying to go to my calves to try to repair that muscle soreness because that's inflammation. And so you don't want to do that. And you don't want to decrease inflammation either when you get stem cells, which is interesting. So I can't do the cold plunge. I can't do the sauna. I can't take anti-inflammatories. How long interesting. So I can't do the cold plunge. I can't do the, I can't do the sauna. Can't take anti-inflammatories. How long do they tell you not to do the cold plunge or sauna? Like five or six weeks.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Because these, these stem cells are so active for so long that if you really want to get the most out of the treatment, that that's the protocol. And I was like, ah, they're just saying that, you know, they're just, they're just saying that for like the, the like general public. But I think athletes always feel like they're like in a different category. Of course.

And just because I don't know why that is. Because you are in a different category. Well, in some aspects, maybe, but, and then, and then I called my physical therapist and I'm like, Hey, these guys are saying this, but like, obviously it's not that right. And she's like no they're that's right on like if you want to get the most out of this treatment then you got to follow the protocol and that that is the protocol so that would drive me nuts i am being a big baby about the not working out part yeah yeah can you do anything can you swim can you do anything i can

swim they they encourage you to swim you can walk a lot and like unless obviously unless you have pain so in your knees or something, you get pain because the stem cells are like really active in your body. So like if you get knee pain, it could like, it could flare up because of the stem cells. But if you're not having that, then you can walk a lot.

And then I'll be able to do like resistance training with bands and stuff like fairly soon, like probably like four weeks from now. And then, but it's difficult, you know, like at my age, I'm 51. And for like 18 months, I've been pretty on it,

like trying to be fit, trying to get my fitness better. Try, you know, really trying to get in shape. You look ripped, dude. You sent me a picture. Looking good. Yeah. It's funny how guys will do that.

Other guys would be like, hey, update right here. Especially when you're when you work freaking hard dude yeah you want people to see it it takes a long time especially me i'm like a i don't know the like the way my body works like if i don't work out like so right now if i didn't work out for like three months i'll lose so much right like just be like i feel like i'm gonna turn to mush right once i mush it might take a year to get back. Right.

That what I lost in, like, you know, one month or six weeks or something, which is wild. Yeah. Yeah. It sucks. It's a bummer. And I'm not cool with it at all. Yeah. It really makes you appreciate it, though, once you do get it back.

Yeah. If you do get out of shape and then you get back in shape and you realize how hard it is. That's one of the reasons why I'm so fanatical about working out because I know that when I've gotten out of shape, that road back is a lot different at 56, which is how old I am,

versus 30 or 25. Yeah, the road back's long. The road back at 25 is a couple weeks and you're good to go. Yeah. You're tippy-top shape again. But at 56, it's like months. Yeah.

This is cool. One thing I did learn, and I'm trying to keep this in mind when I'm sort of being a baby about all that thing about not working out. Like your muscles have a really strong memory. a really strong memory. So if you're really fit and then all of a sudden you go through a period like I'm going through right now where I'm probably going to get unfit for a little bit, it'll come back much faster back to kind of exactly where you were before really quickly because your muscles have memory. So like in comparison to someone who's out of shape, yeah. Someone who never works out at all, it will take them forever to get into the shape. Totally. Yeah. Big difference.

But I guess I forget exactly. I think it was Andrew Huberman was talking about it and he was saying that like, there's like muscle bellies within your muscle. And, and so if, if you develop those muscle bellies, they have a really solid memory. And so when you try to get back in shape, you'll snap back way faster. So definitely have heard that before and it definitely makes sense that your body recognizes like, oh, this is a place that we've been before. We have a memory of this. So we just get back to where that is. Because to get someone who's – one of the things that drives me crazy is that people that are really out of shape that have never worked out and they're like, I got to get into shape. I'm like, OK, do you know what you're saying? Like that you don't don't like I have a friend of mine is overweight and he's been talking to me about exercise and just like I'm worried about being sore.

I go, listen, man, if you want to do this. Yeah. I go, if you want to do this, I go, I will work out with you, and I promise you, you will barely get sore. Because I'm not going to make you – we will work out for maybe 20 minutes. And he goes, why just 20 minutes? I go, because you're not doing anything right now. Like, you shouldn't – if you try to do what I do every day, your body is going to tear apart. Like, you'll blow your shoulders out.

You'll ruin your knees. What we want to do is just slowly build you up. What I'll have you do is just do like five push-ups, five body weight squats, five sit-ups, take a break, relax. I'll show you some stuff that we can do with bands. I'll give you some different exercises that we can do with kettlebells. Very light, just clean, press. I'll just have a couple exercises that we could do with kettlebells. Very light, just clean press. I'll just have a couple of things that you do, some swings.

And we'll work out for maybe 20 minutes and then stop. And then I want to see how you feel the next day. And then I'm going to get you in the cold plunge. I'm going to get you in the sauna. And then in two days, we'll do it again. And if we do it again, it's still the same thing. Very light, 20 minutes. And I would do that.

And I told them, I will do that with you for a couple weeks before I have you really straining hard. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want you hurting yourself. Because too many people, they try to make up for years of abuse. And they try to just jump right back in and fucking run a marathon. Yeah. Don't do that. You need need to your body is out of shape like it's got it's got you have no muscle tissue you're surrounded by fat like we got to build it back nice and slow the same way it got sick yeah build it back but so many people take 20 years to put on a hundred pounds and then expect to lose it in

three months, you know? Well, and then that's the big hook with all these stupid diet programs, 10 weeks to six pack abs. Like, no, that's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. I feel like people really tend to overestimate how much you have to train too. Like the, like the duration per day. Right. Like exactly what you said, like your friend, that misconception of like, well, I need to work out an hour every single day and the person's totally obese or something like that. You'll be dead. You don't need to at all.

Yeah. And consistency is way more important than even intensity. Yes. You know what I mean? If you're kind of intense but you're super consistent and you do it every single day or five days a week, you get insane results in six months. Well, that's one of the things that the Russians figured out with wrestling,

that instead of these unbelievably brutal, intense workouts like the American wrestlers were doing, what they were doing was very high-volume technical work over long periods of time, like several hours per day, and they were training multiple days, like almost every day a week, but not high intensity all the time. And they were developing a far greater array of skills. Their skill improvement was greater.

And then overall fitness was also getting great too because you weren't breaking yourself down and then forcing yourself to work out with a broken down body they were they were doing it the correct way but the correct way and the tough guy way are very different things like the tough guy way is fuck it just fucking grind get in there and push and that's that's a good mentality sort of but you can trip yourself up with that because you literally put too much of a demand on your body then your body's capable of meeting like your mind can be tougher than the actual physical the actual physical ability of your body to recover and move yeah and yeah i think it's

easy to over train too when you get really sometimes you get addicted to training like i am for sure yeah i love working out i love it um but you know i train so differently now than i did when i was in my 40s and my 30s i think i over trained a lot when i was when i was younger yeah and and now i'm realizing at least for my goals now like my like my goal with working out now is like specifically for so i can continue doing the things i love to do as long as possible. I want to bow hunt. I want to snowboard. I want to surf till I'm in my 80s. Yeah.

You know, that's, that's the real goal or maybe as long as I possibly can. Right. I don't, I mean, I like getting super jacked or, or beginning super shredded or whatever. That's, that's, that sounds like fun too, but really it's all about like, like performance long. Yeah. Long-term performance. Can you do yoga after the stem cells? No.

No. No, they specifically said that? Yeah. Yeah. But you can, but not at first. So the first month to eight weeks are really important for the stem cells. And it really depends. So like if I just had like a, say like a torn rotator cuff and I did the injection on my shoulder,

I could start getting back in the gym much faster and I could start doing squats and I could start doing all this other stuff. Like once they're settled into where they are, it's fine. But you don't want to create inflammation in those areas. So as long as you're not doing overhead presses on that shoulder, you're probably going to be just fine. So with me, I had extensive stem cells throughout my body, especially in my spine and my back.

So I got to be careful. I'm very interested to see how the spine, the back stuff works. I've had a lot of those same issues myself with degenerative discs. And it's just from jiu-jitsu mostly. Everybody I know from jiu-jitsu has something fucked up about their backs. I know a lot of guys who have had disc replacements. They open you up and put a fucking titanium disc in there. Yeah.

The problem with that is they've got to replace it someday. Right. And so you want to put that off as long as you can, right? Yeah, but fuck that. Yeah, fuck that. Fuck that. A second spinal surgery? Yeah, but fuck that. Yeah, fuck that. Fuck that. A second spinal surgery? Yeah, it sounds like such a nightmare.

And a lot of times they go from the front, I heard. They go through your neck. Yeah. Through the front of your neck to get to there. Gnarly. Yeah. I guess it's the best way to do it. Yeah.

They open you up. They open up a slit. Yeah. Spread it open like a keyhole. Yeah. I'm going to try with the stem cells for now. Yeah. For sure.

You're fit, dude. What have you been eating? I know I asked you on the, I was texting you, but I wanted to try with the stem cells for now. Yeah. For sure. You're fit, dude. What have you been eating? I know I asked you on the – I was texting you, but I wanted to get a full breakdown of Joe's food program. It's almost all meat. Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm almost entirely – all I eat is meat. Okay. Like yesterday, my entire day was almost – my entire day was like 95% elk. Wow. Wow. Yeah. It's all you eat. That's freaking awesome. Yeah. It's okay.

For me, it just seems to work. I mean, I've tried a bunch of different diets, but for me, there's a lot of benefits to this carnivore diet. And one of the biggest ones, because I do this for a living, right? So one of the biggest ones because I do this for a living right so one of the biggest ones is the cognitive benefits Yeah, there's there's some giant difference between your body running on ketones Which is essentially when it runs on when you're running on just fats and protein Versus your body running on sugar carbs, and you know pasta and bread Yeah, that's that would make me crash, and I would feel dull like my mind would feel dull and when I

make me crash and I would feel dull like my mind would feel dull and when I started back on the carnivore diet like one of the first things that I noticed like almost immediately was that I had an extra gear verbally I get an extra gear cognitively like oh my mind is forming sentences better like it's it's quicker I'm I'm I'm more in tune with conversations, which obviously because I do this for a living, it's fucking so critical. I would stay on this diet just for that, just for that. But then the other benefits are my energy levels are completely flat throughout the day. There's no crashes, no peaks and valleys. And good energy? Fucking great.

Yeah. It took a while i have to be honest the first couple weeks of the diet my workout struggled yeah but they call that like the keto flu yeah people call that because essentially it's a period of time when your body is trying to trying to adapt to what you're trying to exactly give it right exactly and so i do take in some um fats that aren't animal fats Like one of the things I really like is Primal Kitchen's products. Primal Kitchen makes this chipotle lime mayonnaise. Is that Mark Sisson?

Yes. Yeah, that guy's a legend. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And Mark makes a Primal Kitchen mayonnaise that's avocado oil. Yeah. Which is very good for you. I think we have some of that at the house.

It's great stuff. And so what I do is I'll cook up on the Traeger. I'll cook up a few elk roasts for the week. And then I buy four or five jars of that Primal mayonnaise at a time, and I'll just scoop it onto a plate. And I'll just dip slices of cold elk into there. I came home last night from the comedy club at 1.30 in the morning, and that's what I ate. I just ate a big plate of elk and some Primal Kitchen mayonnaise and watched YouTube. I cannot – that's discipline, dude, to eat all meat all day.

That's crazy. I'm pretty decent. Like I'm pretty decent like with discipline. And even with my food, I'm really disciplined with working out and kind of disciplined with food. And I'd say for like, you know, 80% of my food intake is like pretty darn good. It's like meat and eggs for the most part. Um, but man, I, I do love, like I have sugar cravings. There's no doubt about it. Everybody does. And the thing is, if you don't stop eating sugar, you're always going to have these super strong sugar cravings.

And there's such a big difference between hunger and cravings are two totally different things. But you feel them in the same way. You get this trigger of like, fuck, I'm hungry. I'm hungry right now. I've always said that if you just give me a ribeye steak and I eat the ribeye steak,

I will be satisfied and I'll be done eating. I might not even eat the whole steak you'll stop when you're done right for sure but if there's a bowl of pasta right next to that i'm gonna dig into that spaghetti i'm gonna fucking eat that whole thing and then i'll be like oh and then my stomach's gonna be bloated and like oh like i've had giant meals and then just looked at my stomach in the mirror i'm like what are you pregnant like? Like, what is that? It just bloated with food. I'm a real glutton. I have a real problem with food.

Yeah, I do too. But I don't really because I'm disciplined. But if I let myself, I will eat two pizzas. Right. I will fucking, you give me like two pepperoni and mushroom pizzas, I will fucking keep eating. Yeah. Right. Until I'm like

stuffing it. Like the pizza's up to my neck. Like, it's really hard to do that with meat. It's really hard to do that when you're eating just meat. We're going to eat until you're done and then you're done. Well, meat has a very high satiety level where anything that's high in protein, it satisfies you very quickly. It's delicious. So satisfying. It's 100% my favorite thing to eat. Yeah. So if I could just eat ribeye steaks or elk meat for the rest of my life. The thing about eating game, wild game, though, is you must supplement with fat.

You have to have fat. Yeah. Because, like. You lose too much weight, too. Well, it's you're not getting enough fat. You have to get fat. Fat is important for your brain function. Right. And it's important for everything.

Fat is important for your brain function. It's important for everything. So when I – that's why I like that Primal Kitchen mayonnaise stuff. Or when I cook elk, what I'll do is most of the time I will slow cook it on the Traeger, like 265 until it reaches an internal temperature about like 115 or so. Yeah. And then what I do is I take cast iron frying pan and I use beef tallow. And so you get a lot of fat from the beef tall so. Yeah. And then what I do is I take a cast iron frying pan and I use beef tallow. And so you get a lot of fat from the beef tallow. Yeah.

And so I'll use grass-fed beef tallow and I sear it on the outside in that beef tallow. I get the fat from that. I also try to get fat from bacon. Bacon's not good for you. Okay, whatever. Listen, trust me. It's good for you. It's fat.

You need fat. It's not good for you if you're eating all cheeseburgers from McDonald's and processed food. That's not what the problem is. And then you put bacon on top of that. But if you're eating clean, bacon's fine. The real problem is there's a giant issue that people have with processed foods. foods. And when you talk about like, there's a bunch of goofy epidemiology studies that talk about how meat increases your rate of cancer. But the way those studies work is someone will fill out a form, like how many days a week do you eat meat? And I eat meat six days a week. And what they don't ask is what kind of meat? Are eating a jack-in-the-box cheeseburger?

Do you have any fries with that? Do you have a shake? Do you have soda? Like there's a bunch of other things that people do eat. So there's a thing called healthy user bias, right? So if you're if you're someone who says like I don't need any meat and well You're probably listening to a lot. You're probably trying to do the right thing for your health So you're listening to what would be like mainstream conventional doctor's wisdom on diet, which is almost certainly off. Because most of these doctors that are talking about this, they're not up on the latest studies. They're not like Huberman or Lane Norton or any of these. If you really want to know what's good for you and what's bad for you,

I always say, listen to jacked scientists. Those are the guys that are going to tell you. These are the foods that are actually good for you. These are the foods that are good for you. And almost everyone agrees. Sugar is terrible for you. Sugar, breads, pastas, and then you get into the more controversial areas of seed oils.

Seed oils, which essentially were initially invented to be industrial lubricants for machinery. And they figured out, have you ever seen the process where they take canola oil, which you think of as like, oh, canola, must be corn, must be healthy. No, it's rapeseed, which is that word people don't like. Like, rapeseed? What the fuck is that thing? I don't want to have nothing to do with that plant. Well, that's what canola oil is. And then there's like safflower oil and sunflower oil. Oh, those sound wonderful. Not good for you at all. Avocado oil is though. Avocado oil is very good for you. Olive oil, very good for you. There's a lot of oils that are very good for you. That's very good for you there's a lot of oils that

are very good for you that's another thing those two in particular are definitely the best yes i there's another thing i really like to do with meat i'll pour olive oil on it put a little salt put a little olive oil that's why i'm getting a lot of healthy fats yeah and so so with my diet i have to make sure that i get healthy fats because you just eat just only like elk there's not enough fat they're too lean yeah but rib eyes you can eat all rib eyes all. There's not enough fat. They're too lean. Yeah, definitely. But ribeyes, you could eat all ribeyes all day. If I ate all elk, I would probably weigh 130 pounds.

You'd get shredded though, Simon. Shredded like crazy. Shredded. Shredded, for sure. So what I was saying was like for the first two weeks, it was really hard. My workouts were rough. It was like I was sort of fighting off a cold almost. I was just like, ugh.

Low energy. Yeah. Headaches too? No, not that bad. No, just a little bit of fatigue. And mostly just during exercise. It wasn't really that much during the day. Not at all during the day, in fact.

But I could feel the difference. But somewhere along the line, about two weeks in, your body hits a switch. And now it has no effect on me. Right. Now I feel great. That's amazing. I feel great hitting the bag. I feel great doing sprints, sprints on the airdyne bike.

I feel great with my body weight workouts, kettlebell workouts. Everything's great. But more importantly for my job, for this, my brain works better. It just works better. Right. And for comedy, writing, all that stuff. All the above. Everything's better.

It's just carbs and bread and all that stuff, it's just the crash, like the inconsistency that you get throughout the day. And also like the fact that you just keep eating. You just get bloated. You just stuff your fat fucking face with cheeseburgers. If you give me cheeseburgers with buns, I'll eat three or four of those fuckers. Yeah, hell yeah.

I can't stop. Hell yeah. You'll eat it until it's all gone. Yeah. I will too. But like, you know what I like to go, I like to go to In-N-Out and I get those flying Dutchman. You ever get that? No.

I don't really like In-N-Out. You don't like In-N-Out? I don't like In-N-Out. How dare you? I really don't. How? Their fries suck. Oh my God.

I feel like I judge a burger joint on the fries. Really? Yeah. I love their fries. I don't like their fries. Do you like McDonald's fries? No. No?

Whose fries do you like? I like big potato wedge fries. You know who has the best fries? Sweet potato fries I'm a big fan of. Oh, those are the best. Yeah. But you know who has the best fries in all of fast food burgers? Five Guys.

Five Guys. Five Guys has some fucking fries. I don't food burgers? Five Guys. Five Guys. Five Guys has some fucking fries. I don't think I've ever eaten at Five Guys. Oh, they're the best. Five Guys will give you bacon on your burger and jalapeno. You get bacon and jalapenos. Five Guys is the best. I prefer Five Guys even over In-N-Out.

Yeah. My son likes In-N-Out, and we go there sometimes, and I get the animal style with the lettuce wraps and it's all right. Lettuce wraps, okay. I prefer what's called a Flying Dutchman. And what a Flying Dutchman is just a patty, slice of cheese, patty. That's what I get. Oh, gotcha.

It's like a patty sandwich. It's like a cheese sandwich with the patty as the bread. Do you eat cheese on a regular? Yeah. Yeah? What sort of cheese do you eat? I eat dairy. Whatever.

I eat all kinds of cheese. What about fruit? No fruit? Occasionally I have fruit. Occasionally. Does it make you feel weird or anything? No. Does it give you a weird insulin spike?

No. Sometimes in the morning I just decide I want a little pep up. I'll have a banana before I work out. But most of the time I work out fasted. Yeah. I like berries and papayas. I eat a lot of them. Oh, those are great.

Yeah. I love papayas. Yeah. I love mango. Mango's probably my favorite fruit. Papayas. I eat a lot of them. Oh, those are great. Yeah, I love papayas. I love mango. Mango is probably my favorite fruit. Papayas are really good for your digestion. I was going to say that while we're on this thing about the food, you know, Denise.

From Ways to Well? Yeah, Ways to Well. I did my original blood work with her, and then we did a really cool Zoom call afterwards, and we talked for like I did my original blood work with, with her. And then we did a really cool, uh, zoom call afterwards. And we talked for like an hour about my blood work and I was, uh, deficient in a bunch of different things. And, and one of the things was vitamin D and she goes, yeah, I think you should start supplementing with vitamin D. Do you? And I said, yeah, I actually take vitamin D every day. And she's like, well, there's some weird disconnect. So will you send me the brand or whatever you take?

She's like, that's a great brand. There's something wrong happening with the way your body's trying to absorb and digest that. So there was a bunch of things in my diet that I was taking that I was kind of deficient in. And so she started me on this digestive enzyme, which is essentially papaya enzymes. And then I got my blood work done six months later, and I was, like, really great on my vitamin D. Interesting. Yeah. So there was something about your diet and the supplements where your body wasn't accepting the vitamin D?

Yeah. Well, they usually say vitamin D you should take with K2. Yeah. Are you taking it with K2? I take both. Yeah? But my body, for some reason, just wasn't getting the vitamin D you should take with K2. Yeah. Are you taking it with K2? I take both. Yeah. But my body, for some reason, just wasn't getting the vitamin D. That's interesting.

Yeah, but most, there's a lot of people that are deficient in vitamin D. Yeah, oh, it's a giant problem. And it's a giant problem. Well, it's really a hormone. Yeah. Vitamin D is very different. Yeah. And the best way to get it really is from outside.

The best way to get it is from the sun. Yeah. But if you don't get it from the sun enough, like specifically, if you live in a cold climate, you really have to supplement. If you don't, it's just really bad for your health overall, in all ways, your immune system function, something like at one point in time, like 74% of the people that were in the ICU for COVID were deficient in vitamin D. It was crazy. Yeah. I mean, I think that most people just in general are deficient in vitamin D. Yes. And it's surprisingly most surfers are deficient in vitamin D.

And they're outside in the ocean. That's crazy. Yeah, it's very weird. How is that possible? It doesn't make any sense. But it's true. What could be causing that? I don't know.

Like what about surfing? I have no idea. But that's an actual thing. Is it possible that somehow or another there's something about the water? I surf. I'm in the sun every single day. That doesn't make any sense. I'm deficient in vitamin D.

And you tan. And I was really deficient in vitamin D. That's wild. Yeah. It's pretty weird. That's wild. Yeah. God, I wonder what that would be.

That doesn't even make sense. I know. Very strange. I would think if anybody would have super high levels of vitamin D, it would be surfers. Yeah. Right? Shirt off., it'd be surfers. Yeah. Right? Shirt off, shorts on, barefoot. Yeah.

I don't know where it is. Your whole body is like a big old fucking solar panel for vitamin D. I don't know, but I definitely wasn't getting it. Wow. I have to supplement that. I have to supplement a couple different things. One of the things that I do that Huberman says to do is I spend the early part of the morning like staring into the sun.

I get up in the morning, and the first thing I do is go into the cold plunge. And where my cold plunge is set up, when I get in in the morning, the sun is right there in the sky when I'm freezing my dick off. So I just lie in this thing and stare at the sun, and it's an amazing way to wake up. It just fires me up like right away it just changes my whole day yeah you know like whatever sluggishness and weirdness that i have i get in that thing and it's like yikes and i'm staring at the sun it's like my levels just go right back up to normal i'm drawing a blank on the term but what is it called when your body uh sets its time for the day from the sun?

Circadian rhythm. Yeah, circadian rhythm. It's supposed to be great for that. So it benefits your sleep a lot, right, to get sunlight early in the morning. Yeah, supposedly. Because it sets your body's clock, your mind's clock. I've never had a problem with sleep. Yeah, me neither.

Luckily. I'm just one of those guys. That would suck. It would suck. Yeah, I have friends that really struggle with sleep. My wife struggles with sleep. I can go to sleep on a fucking train station floor. Yeah, I don't get it at all.

And I'm not super empathetic about it too. Because sometimes my wife will be up doing something in the middle of the night. And she's like, she can't sleep. And I'm like, what are you doing? Go back to sleep. She's like, don't you think I want to? Yeah. Some people just can't sleep.

Well, Jocko only sleeps like four hours a night. Dude, that's not good for you. He says he doesn't need anymore. Yeah, but his brain does. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe not like for functioning right now, but like long term. Yeah.

Like you asked Andrew Huberman, and that's one of the things you could do to like help your brain function as long as possible. And like with Alzheimer's and all kinds of brain issues, like longterm sleep is a major factor. Yeah. It's a major factor. If they look at the correlation between like the amount of hours of sleep and the instances of Alzheimer's, it seems to be some sort of a connection.

Huge. Yeah. I don't know. Jocko's a different kind of animal though. Maybe he's definitely seems built different. Yeah. Maybe he just doesn't need it. I think there's certain people.

I think Arnold is one of those people too, Schwarzenegger. I think he said he only sleeps a few hours a night. Yeah. I think there's certain people that just like they have just different requirements. There are people that like physically don't need as much sleep. Like everybody needs some sleep, but I think there are people. I'm not one of them. I can notice the difference between six and eight hours. I know it's a big difference. Six hours, I'm like, oh, I'm not one of them. I can notice the difference between six and eight hours.

I know it's a big difference. Six hours, I'm like, I got to push. It's an extra push. Whereas eight hours, good to go. Yeah. I sleep six or seven hours a night. But I feel like everybody's different. There must be outliers.

To only sleep four hours a night and function well, it must not affect your hormones as much as most people. Because I feel like most people, if you sleep four hours a night, it's terrible for your hormones. It causes a crazy crash in your hormones. I think it really depends on what you're doing. For some people, if you're only sleeping four hours, but your job is very engaging and very intense and there's a lot of adrenaline, you're fired up, at the end of day, you're probably going to crash hard,

but you might be able to pull it off and keep going. But if you have like some fucking paperwork job and you only slept like four hours, you're going to be yawning and falling asleep. You're going to be barely able to get through it. Or even this job, there's like the brain function aspect. Oh, here it is. Huge. After 10 years search, scientists find second

short sleep gene. After a decade of searching, UC San Francisco scientists who identified the only human gene known to produce natural short sleep, lifelong nightly sleep that lasts just four to six hours yet leaves individuals feeling fully rested have discovered a second. It says before we identified the first short sleep gene, people really weren't thinking about sleep duration in genetic terms, said Ying-Hu Fu, a PhD professor of neurology and member of the UCSF Weill Institute for Neurosciences. Fu led the research teams that discovered both short sleep genes, the newest of which is described in a paper published August 28, 2019, in the Journal of Neuron.

According to Fu, many scientists once thought that certain sleep behaviors couldn't be studied genetically. Sleep can be difficult to study using the tools of human genetics because people use alarms, coffee, and pills to alter their natural sleep cycles, she said. These sleep disruptions, the thinking went, made it difficult for researchers to distinguish between people who naturally sleep for less than six hours and those who do so only with the aid of an artificial stimulant.

And natural short sleepers remained a mystery until 2009 when a study concluded, conducted rather by Fu's team discovered that people who had inherited a particular mutation in a gene called DEC2 averaged only 6.25 hours of sleep per night. Study participants lacking the mutation averaged 8.06 hours. The finding provided the first conclusive evidence that natural short sleep is, at least in some cases, genetic. But this mutation is rare, so while it helped explain some natural short sleepers,

it couldn't account for all of them. Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I think Jocko is just an animal. Yeah, just must vary. I think he likes being tired. I think he likes waking up tired and then pushing through it. He's probably so used to suffering on a daily that that just becomes his baseline.

If he's not suffering, he probably doesn't feel right. Yeah. Right? Well, how many fucking – go to his Instagram. How many photos are there of his watch at 430 in the morning? He's got the worst but best best Instagram but the worst Instagram you're just like another watch photo but you know he's getting after it I know it's a shitty Timex watch yeah scratches all over it he's probably had for

a decade my my uh my go-to um when I'm when I'm working out Joe is I'll like go on Spotify and I'll search Jocko Goggins Rogan gym motivation. And they'll have these snippets from different YouTube videos of your show when you have someone on and you're getting psyched. Or Goggins saying you're a bitch if you don't work out hard or whatever it is. And then Jocko saying a bunch of stuff. And it's like this hyper motivational stuff. And I'll listen to that as I'm working out. I swear, for sure, it's like maybe 30, 40% difference in my output. I work way, I work way harder.

Isn't it wild what inspiration could do? Like a rock crazy. Yeah. I said to people, I'll be working out and so fired up. I'll like, I'll send, I'll share it and be like, Hey, next workout. You got to try this. It's like that good. It's like pre-workout, but the whole thing. Yeah. It's, it's interesting how mental something that happens to you. That's inspirational. Like some sort of mental fuel. Yeah. It's like a physical drug.

Your, your body responds to it like a physical drug and you get fired up. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's real. Like music is like that. Like,

uh, most of the time I don't work out to music. I just work out. Yeah. I usually watch something on TV. I'll watch fights or something on TV. But every now and then, I work out with music on. And my God, you get, like, an extra gear because of the music. You get fired up by a good song.

Like, say if you're doing, like, Tabata sprints on the Airdyne bike, a good song comes on. You're like, fuck yeah. Yeah. It just gives you extra energy. Yeah. And it feels so good when you're done, when you really worked hard. Yeah. I love that feeling.

It's a drug. I mean, inspiration is a drug. Inspiration through music, inspiration through movies, inspiration through little short Instagram clips. Yeah. It's a drug. Yeah. It's crazy how what you listen to through your headphones can completely change

the way your brain's thinking and just give you more output physically. Like it's pretty damn cool. It is cool. We're just very fortunate that there's so many sources of inspiration today. Yeah, no kidding.

This is like infinity. Yeah, it's like no other time that's ever existed. Yeah. I save them too. I have like a folder on my Instagram with just fucking awesome clips yeah i could just go to it anytime so good marks i love that too yeah so um how is the the bow

hunting in hawaii been it's been it's been good it's been good it's been good for me i've been um i've been boat hunting axis deer a lot i actually um i i i took the year off uh hunting elk i saw i saw that you were hunting elk and we talked but uh yeah you had a really exciting elk elk season i want to hear about that but yeah it's been it's been amazing i've been not home very much but the last couple times i was home in hawaii i bow hunted access deer i went on this last trip i killed four deer and um that was just lots of fun. Just spent tons of time mostly spooking deer and missing, but four of them ended up. Were you on Maui?

Yeah, I was. The thing about Axis deer hunting is it's so sustainable. It's such a great way to get food because there's no natural predators. They literally have to be hunted, and. And there's fucking thousands of them. Thousands. Thousands. Yeah. When we did Lanai, remember when we had the dream team?

Yeah. It was such a good trip. I was so glad to do it again, man. It was so fun. It was you, me, Cam Haynes, John Dudley, Adam Greentree, Remy Warren, Ben O'Brien. Benny. Oh, my God. It was such a good crew.

What a crew. I know. It was wild. What a great time we had. Yeah. We had the best time ever. And then we did that know. It was wild. What a great time we had. Yeah. We had the best time ever. And then we did that podcast in my hotel room. A lot of deer got killed that week.

A lot of deer. Yeah. That gave a lot of people a very delusional perspective of how easy it is to hunt axis deer. No kidding. I know. Yeah. The guides told me that they had 150 hunters come in after us. Yeah.

And one of them was successful. Yeah. One. It's so hard. Everybody else pulled a rifle. It's so hard. Yeah. It's funny. Like, I always tell people that. I'm like It's so hard. Everybody else pulled a rifle. It's so hard. Yeah. It's funny.

Like I always tell people that I'm like, I'm like, I'll see a thousand deer in a day. It's not unusual for me to see a thousand deer in a day. And they're like, how, how'd you only get one? Or how'd you get none? Like sometimes I go access to your hunting in Hawaii for three days straight and not get one. Yeah. Easily.

Yeah. Easily. It is so hard to get close enough into bow range where you're trying to get 30 yards away from a deer and there's 200 deer in front of you in a herd. I have a video of a shot. I'll try to find it on my phone, but I have a video of a shot I took at 80 yards and it's a perfect shot. Like this arrow's arcing right towards the vitals at 80 yards. When the arrow's 10 yards away from the deer, he's like, and he's gone. when the arrow's 10 yards away from the deer. He's like, choom, and he's gone. Like, not there.

10 yards. Like, the arrow's going, I don't know how fast it was going by the time it got to him, but on the way there, it's going 275 feet a second. And when it got close to him, he heard it, and he was, they've evolved to get away from tigers. Isn't that insane? Those motherfuckers are so twitchy. They're so fast. Jamie, can you pull up Instagram? Can you go to Matt Miola, his page? One of my really good friends that I bow hunt with

in Hawaii. How do you spell Miola? M-E-O-L-A. This guy is one of my favorite human beings, by the way. He's a legend. Really good bow hunter, great surfer, one of the best air surfers in the world. What's an air surfer? He's just incredible just incredible at air. See that air up on the upper right? Oh, Jesus. He's the man. Wow. If you scroll down, yeah, if you scroll down, there's one. He's so funny, this guy.

Great fisherman, great bow hunter. Okay, go back up. In the middle, right there. Yeah, right in the middle. I think this one, if you see it, it'll show he's taking shots at Axis Deer, and you'll see his right in the middle i think this one if you see it it'll show he's taking shots at axis deer and you'll see his arrow in in the air you see it and watch the deer it's going perfect he's like fuck it let me get out of here look at that that was a perfect shot yeah and a clean miss at the same time yeah it's nuts they so fast. There's another one right here. Well, when we went to Lanai-

Look at this. I know, it's crazy. I mean- The arrows are going so fast. So fast. And the deer are faster. They just duck and run. Yeah, it's crazy.

The amount of perfect shots you've made and completely missed is crazy. Yeah, it is. When you see them in slow-mo and you realize, oh, I don't suck. These things are fucking greased lightning. But they will make you throw your bow in the air they'll make you buy a rifle yeah i know so many people who have tried to go bow hunting for access deer and end up shooting one with a rifle well with a rifle it's more ethical because the reality is with a rifle you're you're going to 100 get a deer and if you want to just get yeah and if you want to get that meat that's the way to do it.

Yeah. Because they can't dodge bullets. Yeah, if you're filling the freezer, that's the best way. 100%. By far. 100%. By far the best way. The best way to do it.

And I'm not opposed to rifle hunting. I mean, I shot a pig. I'm not either. I shot a pig last week with a rifle. It was awesome. And after a long-ass bow hunt, I just loved having it on a rest, looking at that fucking reticle, and just, boom! And he stoned him, and he just dropped dead,

and now got, you know, a two... He was a big-ass fucking pig. So I have, I mean, who knows how many pounds of sausage I'm gonna get from this. It's gonna be amazing. I'm excited. That's awesome. They make great sausage.

But he was a fat boy. I've only killed one animal with a gun. Really? Yeah. What size is that? The. I've only killed one animal with a gun. Really? Yeah. What size is that? The first animal I ever killed. What size is that? Wow, that's a freaking dinosaur, dude.

That's a big-ass pig. Yeah. Big-ass. Cool-looking, too. Wild boar. And where I was at in California, they're overwhelmed with them. There's so many. We saw hundreds of pigs every day.

Hard to get close to, though, right? Yes. Yeah. They're very, very smart. Like rolling hills? Yeah. Very smart, but with a smart. Like rolling hills? Yeah. Very smart, but with a rifle, it's like so much easier. Yeah.

All you just do is just like squeeze it. Don't move. Boom. There's so much less moving stuff. For sure. When you're at full draw and you got your anchor point, I have a nose button, so I have to touch this thing to my nose and I have to make sure that my finger is like right under my jawline.

Right. A lot of things to think about. Yeah, there's, like, a lot of shit going on. Shut process. It has to be my elbow. Make sure it's up in the air. Oh, yeah. And not like this.

You know, there's, like, so many. Like, you have to, like, I have to think the bubble has to be leveled. Yeah. Make sure the housing is centered in the peep site. And you're going through all this while you're in this like high pressure situation with this fucking massive elk of a lifetime is standing in front of you at 50 yards yeah and then you got to put the pin on its vitals then your nerves are going so you got to make sure you're centering that pin and make sure that pin's not moving too much and then the shot breaks

perfect but when it does happen and you hear that whack and then the elk runs off and in this case in california my elk died in literally 10 seconds yeah it was the the fastest i've ever had an elk die it was a perfect quartering away shot so it shot through the ribs like a little back so you know you know quartering away shot what that means folks is instead of the animal standing completely sideways, it's slightly facing away. So it's looking away from you slightly, which is actually a much better shot because then you're going through like three and a half, four feet of body cavity with a broadhead. Yeah, it opens up the vitals. Yeah, and the animal died almost instantly.

It ran for 80 yards, like as much as it could before it just died. And it died instantly. So let me ask you this. So I'm totally not opposed to rifle hunting at all. I think rifles are great for filling the freezer and totally ethical hunting. But for you that rifle hunt sometimes and bow hunt sometimes, the feeling of making the perfect archery shot on a bull elk and the feeling of seeing that arrow go through the air and hit it exactly where you aimed and that elk going down in 10 seconds, it's a different feeling, right? It's way better. Yeah. It's much, much, much, much, much more difficult because you can have a very ethical shot on a deer with a rifle at 200 yards where the deer might not have any idea you're even there so if you especially if you're prone so if you have a pack and you rest your rifle on the pack and you're lying down in your stomach and you breathe out and relax that bullet is flying so

straight if your rifle is zeroed and you know you look at the reticle and you get it you get those crosshairs perfectly on the vitals that's a dead deer yeah 100 yeah whereas with bow hunting you've got wind you've got all sorts of shit going on and you have to get so close that you're within the animal senses like when i crept up on this elk that i shot last week i wore two pairs of wool socks i took my shoes off because I could creep in because he was bedded and it was so cool because it was the perfect opportunity because he was bedded and he was looking away from me. I was like, oh, he's dead. He's dead. I just have to do

this the right way. And so I started out at like 110 yards and I crept in very slowly the final 60 yards. And it took, cause there was like a bunch of shit in the way I had to get to 50 and I crept in very slowly the final 60 yards. And it took, because there was like a bunch of shit in the way. I had to get to 50. And I got to 60. I was like, I like it, but I don't like these branches and shit. I got to get to the right, which is like another 10 yards. It took me like another 10 minutes.

Yeah. It was nice and slow. But when I got to 50 and he was still bedded, I'm like, oh, he's dead. I just have to wait for him to stand up. And then eventually he got up, stretched his legs out, and whack. Were you on your knees or standing up? Standing. Yeah. I was standing in the tree.

This is actually a video of it. It's on my Instagram. Very cool. Pull that video up because it's dope because you see how good the Origin camo is. We're working with Origin now. And Origin is Jocko's company. And Cam Haynes, me, and Kip Folks, who started Under Armour, we're working for.

That's me right up there. Yeah. So look how well I blend in. It's great. And you can actually hear it. Give it a volume so you can hear the whole thing, which is, for a bow hunter, listen to this sweet shot. Listen to this.

Yeah. That's what you want to hear. Whack. Yeah. Great noise right there. It's the best yeah but it's also interesting like at 50 yards listen to this there's like half a second yeah definitely that's enough time there like for an axis deer that

motherfucker would be gone gone hard to imagine but the elk he had no idea what that was he didn't even look he just heard the i mean i mean he heard the slap into his body, and he was gone. He was gone in 10 seconds. That's the other difference, too. Gun hunting and bow hunting, it's so different. I guess there's two super big things that I can think of that are super different. One is if that elk was behind some grass or a brush, you'd still shoot. Yes.

If you aim well, it's going to go right through that shit. Right. With an arrow, there's no chance. Right. And then the other thing is if you're going archery hunting for elk or axis deer or something like that, you got to practice a lot. A lot. With a gun, if that thing is zeroed in and you've shot a gun before, the animal's dead. I hadn't shot a rifle in over a year.

And I shot that pig. Imagine doing that with a bow and going bow hunting. I would never do it. I would never do it. I would never do it. I would never even think about doing it. That's a huge difference. I would never even consider doing it.

Yeah. Right. It would be unethical. Right. For sure. And so in Texas, it was 105 degrees in the summer. And I was outside in the summer every day for three hours practicing. And so what I'd do is I'd bring a 64-inch hydro flask and I'd fill it up with water and liquid IV.

And I'd just be drinking electrolytes all day and just shooting. Yeah. And that was the way that I did it. I was like – and I would come in and I would be drenched like I just jumped in the pool. But that's what you have to do. Yeah. You have to. I mean I have a 40-yard range indoors here, which is great.

That's amazing. But it's not enough. Yeah. I need to practice. And I don't shoot things at a really long distance, but I practice. I'll practice at 100. Yeah. And the reason I practice at 100.

Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry. What the hell? Well, the reason I practice at 100 is not to shoot something in 100. It's because when I get to 50, I've got it. 50 yards to me is an easy shot. That's what they say, right? You want to practice it twice the distance that is your effective range.

Yeah, because when you get nervous, it's all dependent upon how calm you can stay. Right. And one of the things is certain people like yourself are very good at being calm and high-pressure situations Because you've done so many high-pressure things, you know when you're big wave surfing I've got to imagine I've seen some of the fucking waves you ride that is not to be a Crazy rush and you got to keep your shit together and you're balancing yourself out on the forces of nature Of millions of pounds of water that's working at an insane rate. There's insane forces and you got to keep your shit together while you're on that.

So it makes sense to me why so many surfers get into bow hunting because it's another way that you can kind of stay calm in an insanely pressure filled situation. Now,, if you're a regular guy who maybe played baseball in high school or something like that, you don't have any real pressure situations. Triggering baseball players around the world, bro. Baseball's hard. When you're at the plate, it's a little bit. If you're just a baseball player or something, you have no high-pressure situations.

In high school. I said in high school. I'm just kidding. I mean, there's a little bit. There's a little bit. I'm just busting your balls. People are just so microaggressioned out these days. Yeah.

Listen, if you like baseball, good for you. But the point is, it's like if you're a guy who just has an office job and there's a little bit of pressure in work or stress, there's a giant difference between managing your physical body under the demands of extreme pressure. For sure. That's what giant difference between managing your physical body under the demands of extreme pressure. For sure. That's what I like. I like scary shit. I like to do things that scare the fuck out of me. That's why I liked fighting. That's why I like jujitsu. That's why I like comedy. I like things that are nerve wracking. I enjoy it. I don't know why. I enjoy when it's over. I enjoy success. I enjoy pulling it off.

It was a huge challenge. Yeah. The battle to overcome fear or pressure in the moment is huge. And that's why I love bow hunting. That's why I love it. That moment when there's that elk and you know that this is your time, this is your window. And every single thing that you've done in the last six months, every shot that you've taken taken every target you've worn out is just critical on that specific moment and you have to keep mentally you know calm like you said in the zone and you see that arrow hit exactly where you aimed yes in that pressure

cooker situation is there's nothing like it and i never thought i'd find something like that besides like surfing really big waves right now i have it's incredible well a lot of fighters say that too and a lot of athletes like Derek Wolf who played for the NFL. He's found a great relief and a great discipline in bow hunting

and he's like really dived full into it. But it's like that's a thing for a lot of folks. A lot of veterans that return back, that's a thing

that really helps them like assimilate and just find some new thing that's like this discipline that they can high pressure. And also for me, when I'm sitting down and I'm eating a meal and I'm cooking a meal for my family

and we're all sitting there eating, like this is something that I got myself. I harvested this myself. So there's an intense connection with your food. And it's the best meat in the world, the best protein in the world. It's the best for you. I love seeing it on your instagram that you eat your wild game all the time i actually know hunters that like especially when i first started hunting it was kind of rare like amongst my hunting friend group to actually make their own game it just they just love bow

hunting but it wasn't like they it was like like the meat part was a huge part of it. Like my wife eats axis deer twice a day. She eats it at lunch and she eats it at dinner almost every day. It's kind of wild. Even when I'm not even home, she cooks it for my kids. Well, it's delicious. Yeah, it's insane. Like when I first started hunting, she wasn't super into it.

And now that she eats it every day, she just doesn't want to eat anything else, which is really it's so good for you it's the most nutrient-dense food in the world and axis deer has a amazing flavor yeah it's so interesting it's almost sweet yeah you know axis deer has got just like it's this beautiful like amazing renewable resource especially where you live that you literally have to kill them. They have to, there's no predators unless you want to bring tigers to Lanai. Like, and that's what you would have to bring. And people will argue with that. But if the problem is in Hawaii, it's there's, there's there, the deer were introduced. There's native forests, there's native birds. They have a huge impact on the land.

And then if you just let them go, their numbers get so big. And then there's a drought, like in a place like Lanai, all of a sudden it won't rain for six months and the feed goes away. And then you have 10,000 deer with no food. And what happens is they die these horrible, miserable deaths. Yeah. So you have to keep those numbers in check. That way, when there is a drought, they still all live.

They're much healthier that way. Also, it provides very cheap meat to these people that live there. It's like the most incredible resource for them. I mean, you go to Lanai, the Four Seasons in Lanai is excellent. It's such a good resort. And it's so great that you can stay at the Four Seasons and then go bow hunting. It's incredible. But they have like axis sliders that they sell what is that farm what is that restaurant that's there malibu farms is that what it is i don't know i forget what it is um on lanai yeah

oh my god at the four seasons they have axis sliders yeah oh they're so fucking good yeah they're so good axis is so it's such a fantastic meat. But if I had to pick one, it's elk. That's my favorite meat by far. And maybe it's because of the experience. And maybe the meat is absolutely delicious too. But, and I can cook it so many different ways. I make elk stew. I cook sausages.

I have some of it turn into jerky. It's like, I eat it all the time. When's the last time you made yourself an elk steak and you got halfway through it, you weren't hungry enough for the rest and just threw the rest in the trash? Zero times. Yeah. It always goes in the fridge. That's pretty cool, right?

Yeah. Think of all the people who eat half a steak. Right. And then just like send it back in the restaurant. I'm good. I'm done. Yeah. They don't even think that that's an animal.

There's no connection. Very, very different when you've hunted it yourself. Yeah. You know, and my kids eat it. Everybody eats it. And I just think it makes you healthier. It's just better for you. Yeah. It's very, very different when you've hunted it yourself. Yeah. And my kids eat it. Everybody eats it. And I just think it makes you healthier. It's just better for you. Yeah.

It's so nutrient dense. You feel like you can run through a brick wall and eat that. I know. It looks so different too. When you look at it, it's like this dark red meat, like red gold. Yeah. You know? I love it when you get really, really fit and people are like, bro, what are you eating?

And I'm like, just deer meat. That's the bad. And it's true. Literally, that's pretty much all I eat. You know what I mean? It's very, very, very good for you. Yeah. It really is good.

If you're trying to get fit and you're working out and you're trying to eat really, really good nutritious food, if you're eating venison, man, crazy results. And if you're a person that doesn't have the patience for bow hunting or it doesn't appeal to you get a rifle get a rifle oh yeah go to maui go to lanai you can shoot three or four deer or texas yeah or texas yeah there's a lot of them in texas right in texas it's a little weirder because a lot of these places are these high fun high fence places where these animals are essentially contained in a park. Yeah. It's a different thing.

That's not my type of hunting, but if you're just going for the meat. Right. Like if you're going for the meat, I don't care. Shoot them in a fence. Don't shoot them in a fence. It doesn't even matter. You know what I mean? If you're trying to fill the freezer.

I go to one of the things that I also find is that you really need practice. Like you don't want your first shot of the year on a live animal to be an elk that's like a 350 elk in utah that's one going through the wood you got a small gap to shoot it yeah you really would need reps and pigs provide the best reps in texas most definitely they have to kill them they're fucking everywhere it's a plague there's a friend of mine who has a friend of mine my friend tyler shout out to archery country, best bow shop in the world. It's out here in Austin. We go to, there's a hunting lease that he has and we go out there and it's fucking swarming with pigs. And you can practice on pigs. You get this amazing meat from those pigs and you can get

those shots in, which I think are critical. There's so many bases you have to cover if you want to be a successful bow hunter. And one of the things I should shout out is Joel Turner because this shot IQ system that Joel Turner has developed, he's a sniper, and he worked with SWAT teams, and he was trying to figure out what like, what is it about these high pressure situations that cause people to flinch and panic and get target panic and fuck up shots? And especially in a hostage situation like with a sniper, it's insanely important that you keep your shit together. Yeah. Because you might have to make a headshot on someone who has a knife to a hostage.

You can't mess that up. You can't mess that up. when it was a knife to a hostage. Right, you can't mess that up. You can't mess that up. And so Joel researched what happens to the mind and what are closed loop and open loop systems. An open loop system is like when you're swinging a bat at a ball.

So like, you can't stop it. You're swinging that bat. And once you initiate that movement, it's going. It's going. A closed-loop system is at any time you can stop. So during the process of a shot, you are well aware of what you're not just like hammering the trigger and flinching and panicking. What you're doing is going through this very specific shot process. I have things that I say to myself in my mind while it's going on. I keep talking

to myself so I'm never flinching and panicking and freaking out. I stay in my shot process. And because of Joel, I've been much, much better at like keeping my shit together during those, those, and I've been doing that for about five years now. Is that a book or a podcast or something? He's got a website. What is it called? ShotIQ.com. And it's just doing that for about five years now. Is that a book or a podcast or something? He's got a website. Yeah. What is it called? ShotIQ.com. And it's just information that you consume and then you practice it? Well, he breaks it down to you.

One of the things that he makes it. Is it like video-based, the stuff he does? Yeah, video-based. I'll have to check that out. He talks about it. And he's thoroughly researched this. I mean, he keeps improving it and updating it. But I know like world-class archers like Levi Morgan who use it, who's like literally the greatest archer of all time. He uses it.

And these guys use it in order to have a process that you utilize while you're in the middle of a shot right to keep talking yourself cam haynes developed his own process on his own and didn't necessarily know that that's what he was doing he just knew what was best for him and what he does is he puts the pin on the animal and then he says to himself keep the pin on him keep the pin on him keep the pin on him keep the pin on him boom the shot breaks interesting yeah but he's going through it in his mind like when he's at full drawn an animal he's like keep the pin on him keep the pin on him and the shot breaks whereas some people like they see the and they just fucking flinch and then they fucking hit him in the antlers they just so many people like freak out yeah in that moment and yeah and having a process i think the biggest thing is just even if your process isn't perfect having a process to think about instead of thinking about the pressure.

Start thinking about that moment. When you're just sitting there at full draw and you're like, hey, pin on the animal. Get my anchor really good. Look at the bubble. Okay, first pin for sure or third pin for sure. He's at 50. It's a third pin or whatever it is. Having that process and then high elbow pull

through pull through the shot and then like you know and follow the arrow yeah follow through yeah it's i think just having that process and like really talking to yourself in that in that pressure cooker moment is is the way for remy has an interesting thing he says too remy says be the arrow oh really yeah which i like i incorporated that too i like that this idea of be the arrow like you you you are literally thinking you are the arrow yeah you know where you want that arrow to go you're concentrating on the be the arrow and then when he releases that shot he's like following it he like is the arrow and then whack and you know very few people are more successful than remy one of one of my one of my bow hunting mentors uh jeff he used to take me bow hunting when i was when i was a lot

younger and he goes he goes you know what i used to always tell myself when i was at full draw and right before the arrow broke he said i would look at the animal the last thing i would do is say you're gonna fucking die oh that's intense. And it sounds kind of messed up. There's all these non-hunters listening to this, like, whoa, that's really messed up. But he goes, like, think about it, like, psychologically, that's what you're doing in that moment. And you've got to, like, really embrace that instead of hoping,

instead of coming from a perspective of hope, like, oh, I hope that arrow gets there in the right spot. I hope I don't mess this up. It's like that confirmation in your mind telling yourself that this is what you're doing here. This is the intention. The arrow is going to go there and that's what's going to happen. And believing instead of hoping, you know, that's the difference. But like the way he, he said it was, it was interesting, but he's like, it's powerful. Honestly. He's like, he's like, so having a process and being super confident that all the work is paying off and in the moment you're going to make that shot is key. It is a discipline.

And if you want to take this journey, you have to understand it's a discipline and it requires work. It requires a lot of work and a lot of thinking and it's going to be a lot of pressure. But that's what I like about it. Yeah. And again, at the end, the end result is it's so rewarding. Yeah.

Isn't it crazy? I don't know if this is going to take us down a rabbit hole, but. I like rabbit holes. It's just tripping. The fact that we're here in your studio talking about bow hunting and food. And there's a war. There's like people putting missiles together into a machine, like some launcher thing right now. And Israel is about to invade Gaza.

Right at this moment. They're talking about a ground invasion of Gaza and they're preparing for it. So gnarly. This is terrifying. It's so terrifying because we're so close to World War III. We're so close. It's no joke, man.

It really feels like that's what's happening. It is happening. It scares the fucking shit out of me. Yeah's no joke, man. It's really, that really feels like that's what's happening. It is happening. Yeah. It scares the fucking shit out of me. Yeah, it does me too. And someone from the government was just having some sort of a press conference where they're saying, you know, we are at war and war is messy. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Shouldn't we be doing everything we can to avoid this?

Every single possible thing that we can to avoid this. Every single possible thing that we can to avoid this. And it doesn't seem like they look ahead. They just go, here's what we got to do. Right. Here's what we have to do. Like, I get it. I get it's like what happened

on October 7th, was it? Yeah. It's horrible. Absolute atrocity and like barbaric and absolutely terrible. And I get it. You have to retaliate and you have to do what you got to do. But how do you do that?

Like, of course you want to get rid of Hamas. That sounds great. You know what I mean? I completely support that. I think everybody supports that for the most part. But how do you do that without so much collateral damage? It's ridiculous. And then even more important than that is fast forward five years from now,

what happens? What are the repercussions? Yeah. Especially around that whole area with all those Arab countries. Yeah. And we're backing that. We're backing them killing all these people there.

And we're also backing Ukraine against Russia. And now it's looked like we're going to back Taiwan. We just sent an aid package to Taiwan, billions of dollars to Taiwan. It's like we're opposing all these, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. We're opposing China, Russia, and now these Arab countries. Yeah, it's scary, man. I'm not the person to talk politics or international military strategy.

But I just watching the news and trying not to and just try, and it's funny, because I mean, I've always known about Israel and Palestine just from what I hear on the news and like just sort of hearing, like kind of understanding on the most surface level. And it wasn't until now, age 51, where I was actually, I've been watching,

like listening to podcasts, watching watching documentaries trying to like educate myself and like figure out what this conflict how it came to be what the history was and it's the more i try to learn about it the more complicated it seems yeah it's terrifying yeah it's terrifying and the consequences for all of us are so grave because if it does go completely sideways if someone goes nuclear We're fucked. We're fucked. The world's fucked. I mean we're getting knocked back into the Stone Age if we're lucky If we're lucky if we're not lucky the whole human race gets wiped out and all it takes is one person to go rogue yeah, and like you saw the like for

For Hamas to do what they did in israel that they that was totally strategic they didn't do it they didn't like do do all that barbaric shit in that way like just to prove a point it was super like they wanted a crazy emotional response. They were trying to escalate the situation, obviously, right? Like you would never do that without going, what is this going to do? Because obviously they're going to full on airstrikes, you know, ground invasion. It's pretty obvious that that's going to happen. So they basically wanted that to happen.

They wanted, like I listened to the Coleman Hughes podcast. You just had Coleman on the show a couple days ago, whatever that was. The way he broke that down, how he simplified everything, and, like, he made so much sense out of it. But I just can't stop thinking about the repercussions of retaliation and escalation and getting every single other country involved. And it's just wild. When it gets me is late at night when I'm alone.

This was even before the Hamas invasion. It was just thinking about Ukraine and Russia. I would be at home and, you know, just go through the news feed and read some stories. And then everyone in my house be asleep and I'd be awake. And I just going, fuck, is this the last days of normal civilization? Yeah.

Because every movie where, you know, we, we ascend into the apocalypse or descend into the apocalypse, that's how it starts. It's like, you know, there's normal life dropping your kids off at school by honey.

I love you. And then hours later, sirens, bombs, powers off, no water, no food. People are struggling. It's just like if nuclear bombs start going off, the world will be unrecognizable. The world will be unrecognizable. We will be right back to barbaric Stone Age monsters in a matter of months, a matter of weeks, days even. There's no power, no food, no nothing. You know, the fucking border has been invaded by hundreds of thousands of illegals. How many of them are militants?

How many of them have snuck in across the border and are forming terror cells? We don't know. I mean, that's the giant fear. That's for sure happening. For sure. There's no doubt. For sure. I read this thing that there's like six to 10 million people that came across the southern border in the last four to five years.

That's as many people that live in New York City. And then like a crazy increase in people coming across the northern border yeah it's nuts like and i see it i have been in california a lot the last few months it's insane how many more people are just obviously all of a sudden just appearing like getting dropped off on like street corners with buses literally just in the middle of nowhere they literally just get off the off the bus with a cell phone. But look at New York City when Cuomo was explaining how New York City literally has a mandate to house its homeless.

Yeah. And that was supposed to be the people that lived there that were down on their luck. And now it's people that have come in from other cities and or other countries rather illegally. And they're trying to make it so that those people can vote. And you see what they're doing with people from Venezuela? They're sending people back from Venezuela? Only from Venezuela.

Yeah, because Venezuela opposes socialism, so they're not going to vote Democratic. They don't want those people. That's crazy. This is fucking wild. It's crazy how it's so odd. Like when you start thinking about it like that, that sounds like a conspiracy theory,

but it's like totally political, all these moves. 100%. They're literally importing Democratic voters. That sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it's like totally political, all these moves. A hundred percent. Yeah. They're literally importing Democratic voters. They think by allowing the borders to be porous and by giving people aid and giving people housing that you're essentially guaranteeing that if you can rig it so that those people are allowed to vote, those people are going to vote Democratic. And if you could say that, oh, voter ID is racist.

Like, what? Voter ID is racist. Like, what? Voter ID is racist? That's crazy that they think that. And they don't think that. They don't think that. They know that that's not true. It's horseshit. It's all political horseshit.

But that's, unfortunately, the level of discourse that we have today, especially with all the virtue signaling on social media and all the people clamoring to prove that they're the most progressive and the most open-minded and equitable and we're in we're all down for inclusivity and like yeah there's gonna be repercussions to all that for sure i mean you see that you see the videos in new york city and chicago and these places where there's dropping all these people off they'll like video 500 people in a row and be like two women and almost everyone's like between 20 and 30 years old yeah all military age dudes yeah like what do you think is going to happen five years from now right with like 10 million illegal immigrants here also if you're importing people that have come from horrible crime ravaged parts of the world that's what they grew up with. That's what they're accustomed to.

And if you also have a defunding of the police and you also have a complete disrespect for law enforcement in this country, it's a recipe for disaster. Well, and think of it. It's so crazy because everybody has a smartphone these days. Even in pretty much every country, people have a smartphone and access to the Internet. There's 8 billion people on the planet. The U S has an incredible, like, like the lifestyle,

like the normal lifestyle in America is crazed, like a joke, how good it is. Like people got it so good in this country. It's insane. 8 billion people are looking at that with social media. Yeah. And they're seeing on the news thousands and thousands and thousands of people walking across straight into the U S and getting all these incredible things in return for doing it. Yeah. Like I would be wanting to come here too if I was from some fucked up country. 100%.

Yeah. So you can't blame them at all. No, I don't even blame. I would 100% be one of those people making their way across. If I lived in Guatemala or wherever, all I had to do was like hike for a couple of weeks and i could be in america and get a landscaping job and feed my family and get a bus ticket to freaking tijuana or wherever to and then just walk across the

border yeah sweet it's crazy yeah and then i feel like nobody agrees that having a secure border is a is a is a is a bad idea i think everyone thinks that a secure border is a bad idea. I think everyone thinks a secure border is a good idea. Well, it became a political talking point during the Trump administration because people wanted to label Trump as racist and they wanted to label the wall as racist. But meanwhile, Obama was talking about that. Obama was talking about that in 2013, that we have to secure our borders. And I was reading that it would cost between $4 and $6 billion to finish the wall. And we sent $100 billion to Ukraine. We accidentally over-sent $6 billion to Ukraine.

That's enough to finish the wall and secure the border. Like, that's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, they need more than that, really, because people climb that wall. Well, you got drones and, yeah, all these. They need reinforcements. They need patrols. They need law enforcement. That's what they need. They need borderments. They need patrols. They need law enforcement.

That's what they need. They need border enforcement. They're terribly undermanned. And everybody that I know, like my military friends that have gone down there and visited, like Tim Kennedy is always telling me, you've got to go down there. You should just go see what's happening. And he was telling me this two years ago. He was like, two years ago, it's fucking nuts. And now it's even worse.

It's crazy. I feel like the problems are like slowly then suddenly with that type of thing where like you don't really realize it's like the you know like in new york they're like it's a sanctuary city everybody's welcome in new york city just come here and then like next you know every single immigrant that that that went there was getting like a three to five hundred dollar uh hotel room each night and everybody thought that was a good idea it's just like that's that's what i mean like slowly then suddenly like you don't really see the problems until it's overwhelming well and the roosevelt hotel in new york city is no longer a hotel i stayed there before the roosevelt the last time i was really in new york city i stayed at the roosevelt Roosevelt. The Roosevelt Hotel is now a complete housing center for migrants.

Oh, man. See if you can find videos of the Roosevelt Hotel today. Because the restaurant's no longer a restaurant. The hotel's no longer a hotel. It's crazy. It's 100% for migrants, and it's overwhelmed, and it's more than to capacity. And New York City, from most people I talk to who live there, is a shit show now. It's much more of a shit show than it was.

This is the Roosevelt Hotel. Inside Manhattan's hotel is the new Ellis Island. It's crazy, man. It's crazy. I was just in Tijuana for a week, Joe. Very, way fewer homeless people in Tijuana.

Way fewer than in America, than in California. very way fewer homeless people in Tijuana, way fewer than, than in America, than in California, no fentanyl zombies all over the street. It's the weirdest thing. I went to, I went to TJ thinking it was going to be like super dangerous.

I had all these assumptions. I felt totally safe. I ate like five star restaurants right across the, the like right across the street from where I was staying. I was staying at the Hyatt Killer Hotel right across the street, like three incredible restaurants. It felt completely safe. And when I'm in California, there are zombies everywhere. The fentanyl problem is so out of control. It's insane. Yeah. We're fucked. We're fucked.

Did you see this about fentanyl recently? Mexico City Lolo cartels message to members, stop making fentanyl or die. Good. Wow. Crime group yields to intensifying U.S. law enforcement pressure and is kidnapping or killing producers who defies ban on trafficking the opioid. Good. Good. I'm with them.

I wonder why. Well, I mean, it's fucking up their business. Their business is selling cocaine. And then these guys make fentanyl and they cut the cocaine with fentanyl and people are dying. And then law enforcement pressure starts ramping up. And then what they're really worried about is invasion. The military decides to go after the cartel. The cartels are fucked.

Right. I mean, they start airstriking cartels with jets. Gnarly. Yeah, that's a wrap. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. How crazy is that how the fentanyl these days is mixed with trank? Or it's trank?

Have you heard of that? What's trank? I can't believe you haven't heard of this. Trank with a Q. So trank is fentanyl mixed with a horse tranquilizer. So the horse tranquilizer makes the fentanyl last much longer is my understanding. Jamie's probably looking it up right now. But the trank is a horse tranquilizer. They mix horse tranquilizer makes the fentanyl last much longer is my understanding. Jamie's probably looking it up right now, but the, the trank is a horse tranquilizer. They mix it with fentanyl, I think to make it last longer and make it more powerful. And the fucked up thing is

it's so toxic. They, they all inject it. It's so toxic that it, it, uh, it's so poisonous to your body that your, that, that your body's trying to get rid of it. So it creates these massive sores where the drug is trying to get out. I saw that in Russia. Yeah. No, it's here now, dude. Big time. People are getting sepsis and having to get their limbs amputated. It's really, really gnarly.

Go back to that article that you were just posting. It's a DA-like message about it. Okay. It says xylosein is making the deadliest drug threat in our country that our country has ever faced, fentanyl, even deadlier, said Administrator Milgram. DEA sees xylazine in fentanyl mixtures in 48 of 50 states. The DEA laboratory system is reporting that in 2022, approximately 23% of fentanyl powder and 7% of fentanyl pills seized by the DEA contain xylosine. Fuck.

Yeah, I have a weird, I don't know if obsession's the right word, but I like watching, like, drug documentaries and, like, interviews with, like, drug addicts and, like, you know, DEA agents, like, all that kind of stuff is just kind of fascinating to me because I don't have a drug problem. And just interesting to me how people like will choose to go down that road over and over and over, even though it just seems like the worst thing ever. But I, the, the, like the addicts, when they talk about being on fentanyl, they'll choose the xylosine now with the fentanyl because it's much better.

And they know they're going to die from it like really soon. And they keep choosing it. It's pretty wild. And if you're a heroin addict, you can't even find heroin these days. You can't get heroin. It's all fentanyl. Really? Yeah.

I've had a few different friends die from fentanyl. They thought they were buying like a baggie of cocaine and partying and just dropped dead. Yeah, that happened to a group of comedians in L.A. recently. It's so messed up. It's fucking horrible. It's the number one killer, I think, of people. It's 18 to 49, something nuts like that.

It's like 100,000 people a year dying of overdoses. Something nuts like that. It's like 100,000 people a year dying of overdoses. What do you think about parents sending test kits with kids to go to parties so they can test the drugs? Well, it's certainly better than not testing it and taking it. Obviously, the best thing would be to don't take any drugs. But, you know, especially when kids are drinking, all your judgment goes out the window you're not thinking straight you're drunk and then someone offers coke and there's peer pressure and you're like i'll try it and then next thing you know you're dead

you know if if there was a method of testing and i know they use that a lot at raves because that was one of the issues at raves was that people were buying mdma and that was laced with fentanyl for sure wind up overdosing with that yeah that's fucking scary shit man also uh parents are sending their kids narcan or narcan narcan to to help them survive an overdose well and to help other people yeah um i heard a lot of kids in portland are being trained and sending their kids to school with Narcan. And they're trained to give Narcan to heroin addicts or to fentanyl addicts, which is crazy. That's the other thing they say in those documentaries. They always interview the addicts and they say, how many times have you, or they say, have you OD'd before?

And they're all like, yeah, of course. And they're, how many times? They all say countless. They don't know. Imagine ODing so many times where you literally do not know how many times it's been. And then going straight back and getting high again, like with a needle. Yeah, it's nuts. It's a real crisis.

Yeah, it really is a crisis. I mean, you have kids. I have kids. So these are things that are like totally on the front burner for me. Like to me, I'm never sending my kids to a party with, with, uh, test kits.

That's not like, that's, I feel like talking to them from a super young age, totally having super transparent heart to heart talks with them about friends that I've had that thought they were getting one drug and it was laced with this shit that is completely deadly and dropping dead just drugs are different man they're not how it was when we were kids when we were kids like people would experiment it was completely normal like i feel like those days are over in some some aspects you know for sure well the real problem and this is a very uncomfortable discussion, but the real problem is that drug prohibition has made criminals the only source of drugs.

And you have no idea what you're getting. And that's the problem. And if you make drugs legal, all drugs legal, you're going to have a bunch of people that are doing drugs that wouldn't do drugs if they were illegal. So you have that problem. And so how do you mitigate that? How long does it take for the dust to settle and life normalizes? Because if you think about the prohibition in the United States, prohibition of alcohol in the United States propped up the mob. Everybody knows that. It's a fact.

It's widely, openly discussed. The only people that were selling the alcohol were the people that were criminals. They made a shitload of money. They amassed massive power because of that. And they used it. They used it to control cities. Until they got infiltrated and the mob got broken up, they – for a long time, they reaped the rewards of the power that they started to develop during Prohibition. And that's exactly what you're seeing with the cartels the reason why the cartels have so much power is because there's so much demand

for illegal drugs United States and that's not going away well it's not going away no people have always wanted to do drugs there's always gonna be a certain lost segment of our population that wants escape reality with some fucking hardcore shit that puts them in a trance. Yeah. Well, they're finding it. Yeah. If they want that, it's everywhere. What is Hawaii's problems? What is like, uh, like on the big Island, what are the main, uh, drug problems? I mean, it's been meth for the most part for like last 20 years. That's taken a toll. There's no doubt about it. Meth has been like probably the biggest problem, but now it's turning into fentanyl.

Now it's turning into fentanyl. One of the little girls in my daughter's circle of friends was on Instagram Live. This was like two years ago. The girl was like 12 years old. She was like on Instagram Live. No one was home at her house, and she went in her mom's medicine cabinet,

and she found a little baggie of white powder. Oh, God. And chopped it up in a line. On Instagram Live, went in her mom's medicine cabinet and she found a little baggie of white powder oh god and chopped it up in a line uh on instagram live she just had her friends or whatever like her 10-15 friends that follow her like a little girl and was like dare me and she snorted it it was pure fentanyl oh god and it turns out her mom was selling it that was on the big island and my my daughter's little circle of friends. And she died. That's happening everywhere, man.

That's my little tiny town that I feel is like a little town, like a little farm town that grows coffee. And that's where you surf and hang out. It's like super mellow. But somehow that's really happening. Those drugs have infiltrated like every last little corner of our country. It's wild, man. Wild. It is is wild and the alternative doesn't seem appealing either the alternative of making heroin and cocaine legal at stores that scares the shit out of me too yeah it's weird that it's like it's like regional like like it's really bad in can. Horrible. The drug epidemic.

Like, I was in, not Toronto, what's the other giant city on the West Coast? Vancouver. Vancouver. Holy crap. Yeah. Thousands and thousands and thousands of homeless people, homeless fentanyl zombies all over these like big city blocks, like thousands of them, like, you know, slumped over. Have you seen that when they get slumped over?

That's the tranq. So that's a tranquilizer thing. So it's super high and they're tranquilizer. So they basically are like, you know, they don't fall, but they like swaying. But I feel like in Canada, it's huge. In the.s it's huge but i just was i was in france and spain none of that yeah none of that well they didn't have the same opioid crisis that we had caused by the sackler family and what they did with the oxycontin pills where they just made

you know who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people addicts in this country. Crazy. If not millions. I mean, how many millions of lives are ruined? Because not just the people that, but their families, everything gets devastated. Everything gets ruined. The most fascinating part I think about that series was, I mean, there were so many fascinating things about that that series but there was a

window of time where no one knew what it was what oxycontin was no one knew yeah just had his name and it made you feel good and it like took your pain away and took you out of whatever stress you were feeling now now we know about it like there's kind of no excuse now for like the kids coming up that are educated like hey opioids they're fucking deadly you know oxycontin all these opiate like any of these opioids are like highly addictive they're pretty much all going to kill you or lead you down this horrible road to something horrible but there was a window of time where literally no one knew what that stuff was i remember it went through my whole, not my whole, but a group of my friends all got hooked on that junk like right away when no one knew what OxyContin was.

Yeah. Well, that documentary, that series, the Netflix series, Painkiller is absolutely terrifying because it shows you how corrupt the system is and how they were able to prescribe this and make this thing and pass it where it can be prescribed to people where when we were kids when i was a kid no one did heroin it wasn't like an issue like if someone's doing heroin that guy's off the rails like oh you hear mike's doing heroin yeah like mike's gone you would think that guy's gone totally he's suicidal he's just fucking shooting up like i knew a couple comedians that did heroin and i was like oh my god and they wind up dying the the two that i know that i was pretty aware of yeah they wind

up dying from heroin and it's just heroin was rare yeah and then a big choice yeah it was a big choice choice yeah but now it's this and doctors were prescribing it. Thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors were prescribing it. Yeah. Because it was believed to be not addictive and safe. Yeah. Well. Where else have we heard that that's safe and effective? Yeah.

Jeez, dude. I know we never learn. We never learn. Well, some people learn. But it's so difficult to be completely informed. And the problem also is that young people, they make bad decisions. They're young. They don't have a lot of life experience.

And they think they're just going to party and other people are partying. It's no big deal. I'll just have fun. Yeah, there's no doubt. And I think that OxyContin thing, at least in my lifetime, was the first time I started seeing people start to distrust doctors. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like they were starting to look at doctors, like, especially after those documentaries came out in those docuseries, what was the other one called? Dope Sick. Yeah. Because doctors were like all of a sudden on board with this whole

prescription thing and prescribe over prescribing like crazy and like buying it hook, line and sink or whatever those pharma pharma companies were telling them. And then that and then with the whole COVID thing, it just accelerated that whole distrust of I feel like it's that's a really sad thing. When I was a kid, you just trusted your your doctors implicitly, I would call a doctor, my my personal doctor and ask them anything and believe anything they said. These days, if I have a broken arm, I'm going to go to the doctor. If I have a, you know, five, if I have something super specific, I'll go to the doctor, but it's crazy. I feel like it's different. It's changed now. Doctors that are captured by a system and doctors are, they're essentially rule followers. You know, there's a very rigid system

that like the FDA forbade them from prescribing ivermectin during COVID, which is wild. Wild. Because now it's legal to prescribe. Yeah. Just like now they, they allowed it to prescribe and there's, there's, I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but there's a lot of randomized controlled trials that show that it's effective. It's like, what the fuck is that all randomized controlled trials that show that it's effective. It's like, what the fuck is that all about?

Like, what did they do? Well, I'll tell you what they did. There was a cheap and effective drug that is generic. So they can't make any money off of it. Right. And then there's this other thing that they can make billions of dollars off. So they pushed that. And anyone that supported that cheap and effective drug, they were marginalized. They were mocked.

And the media was involved in it because of the amount of money that these pharmaceutical drug companies spend on media advertisement. That's the giant problem. So crazy. There's only two countries in the whole world that allow pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise on TV. And that's the United States and New Zealand. And New Zealand is much more restrictive than the United States is. And the most fucked up thing is not only are they able to advertise in the U.S., they're able to advertise on our news channels.

Exactly. They're able to prop up our whole media system. Yeah. And then the media can't say anything about pharmaceutical drugs. Except favorable stuff. Exactly. I mean, they're captured. So crazy. But that's also led to their demise. They looked at short-term profits over long-term

sustainability because the trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low. COVID ruined their trust. CNN recently got the lowest ratings it's had since like 1991. They got 43,000 people watching one of those Anderson Cooper shows. I heard that. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Whitney Cummings said that she goes,

if I had 43,000 people that watched my Instagram reel, I'd kill myself. That's insane, right? That's insane. It's crazy that people with large personal platforms are bigger than mainstream media. Way bigger. Yeah. Way bigger. And amazing.

It's good. It is amazing. It's a good thing. I mean, look at Mr. Beast. What does he have, like 100 million YouTube subscribers? There's not a show on earth that's like that. Not a show on earth that's bigger than that. Yeah.

But yeah, I feel like you're right. It's definitely never been worse so those I think that they did it to themselves yeah I mean they all did it to themselves I mean and they've they do to themselves constantly they did it to themselves with this Hamas Israel yeah invasion with the bombing of the hospital like all that stuff you can see they're they're elated to tell the news right now. Yeah. They seem like they're so excited that they have something that people are just like locked onto.

They're the only ones who win in these wars, those media companies. Well, I mean, it's kind of ironic that that's literally how they made Trump. By constantly reporting on the stupid things that he would say and the ridiculous things that he would say, they would think they were getting him. But all they were doing was giving him more attention. And all they were doing is making him bigger, making his profile bigger. And every time they attacked him, he just got bigger. And now that people have a distrust in media, now it works even the opposite way. It's even more ridiculous, rather. No one trusts them anymore. So anytime they say anything people go what's really going on this is kind of off topic but i meant to ask you about this isn't it

isn't it funny that you are painted as like a right winger so there is and i don't think you're a left winger i don't think you're right i I don't even know. Way more left wing than right wing. But it's funny that like, if you asked like, you know, this whole side, the whole left basically thinks you're right. You know what I mean? Like anybody who's like kind of semi progressive or whatever would think that

you are a right winger. Right. Because that's how they like depict you in the news on the left. Right. Like CNN and all that stuff. Right. Well, also I look like I would be a right winger.

I'm bald. I have muscles and tattoos. I bow hunt. And I do cage fighting commentary. Right. There's a lot of reasons why you could label me. You fit the stereotype. But how many presidential candidates have you had on this show?

Quite a few. Okay, let's name them. Bernie Sanders? Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Gary Johnson. Is that it? Is that everybody? Well, RFK, Tulsi, and Bernie.

What they have in common... Gary Johnson's libertarian. They're Democrats. They're all Democrats. Yeah. So I just think it's kind of funny that everybody, all these people, think you're right-winger

when all the people... I haven't had a single Republican candidate for governor, for president, for anything. But it's... I've never heard

that you're biased from only having... from not having Republicans on your show. No. Do you know what I mean? That's kind of weird that they leave that out. Well, it's just the mainstream media.

They don't like other people having influence, and they try to attack them. And one of the best ways to marginalize someone or use it as a pejorative, call them far right. They like to call me far right. Well, the only thing that I'm right-wing about is discipline. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in freedom of speech, which is crazy that that's right wing now. Like there's so many tenants of that used to be of the left that are now attributed to the right, which is crazy. Distrust in the government like that's all of a sudden that's it's really changed right yeah yeah it's weird it's weird distrust of the government used to be left-wing you know um promotion of free speech used to be left-wing there's some but when it comes to like social safety nets and universal uh health care basic income things

like that i'm very left-wing i believe that there's people that are down on their luck and they need to be helped but i also believe in discipline and i also believe that the right to bear arms is probably the only thing that kept us from becoming australia during the pandemic you see what fucking happened to australia during the hundred percent agree they were just locking people up they were outside that didn't have their mask over their nose i mean it was bananas they were locking people up for social media posts did you see what happened in can? These guys got arrested for a conversation that they were having on a train? No, but Australia and Canada turned into full China.

Yeah, it's full authoritarian. I've been going to Australia since I was 16 years old, one of my favorite countries in the world. Never in a million. And the Australians have this sense of pride and they don't give a fuck. They're rugged. world never in a million and the australians have the this sense of pride and like they're just they don't give a fuck they're like rugged they yeah they like no one can tell them what to do it was crazy to see that during covid where they basically had to all comply or else and it was like real

yeah they got in so much trouble if they didn't it was insane and you're right that's the biggest difference like they they thank god that's that's that's really the only difference and i have a couple australian friends that said that, like older, really intelligent Australian friends that were like, dude, the most important thing you have in America is the Second Amendment. It's the thing that keeps the First Amendment alive. Yeah. Because the freedom of speech backed by the Second Amendment. And people don't want to believe that. And they want to point to school shootings.

But here's another thing they want to point to when it comes to school shootings. What about the instances of psychotropic drugs that are used by people who turn out to be school shooters? Is there a correlation? Is there a causation? And nobody wants to discuss that. That's another thing that never gets discussed on mainstream media because of the fact that they're all compromised by the pharmaceutical drug companies. by the pharmaceutical drug companies. There's a huge number of these people that commit these mass atrocities that are on psychiatric drugs.

Now, is it because they were already sick, already crazy, and that's what caused them to do that? Perhaps. Is it because a lot of these disassociatives and a lot of these SSRIs and a lot of these different things cause people to think and behave in very bizarre ways. There's no doubt that it has. Yeah, there has to be some sort of a connection. The fact that it's not being investigated, it's not being discussed.

And if you bring it up, you're a fucking loon. That to me is crazy. has done to try to control a narrative, specifically to protect their interest, because they are being funded by the pharmaceutical drug companies. And it's not for the greater good of anybody, including the people that run the pharmaceutical drug companies. Look, there's drugs that they should sell that are great. They produce drugs that save people's lives, that help people. It's not like demonizing the pharmaceutical drug industry.

It's not them. It's the people that run the companies that are money people the money people just want to make money yeah um we had uh what was the what's the guy's name um that litigated uh against uh the pharmaceutical drug companies for Vioxx. Do you remember his name? One of the things, Vioxx was like an anti-inflammatory, similar to ibuprofen, but caused horrible side effects. A friend of mine had a stroke when he was on it, and it killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 to 60,000 Americans.

And in internal emails, they said it's going to cause all these problems. They listed all the medical problems that we're aware of, but we are going to do well with this. Yeah, John Abramson. Wow. So John Abramson just – it says Joe Rogan's New Year's Eve tutorial on corporate crime and the pharmaceutical industry. So this was the drug. John Abramson,

he's the author of a new book, Sickening, How Big Pharma Broke American Healthcare and How We Can Repair It. And he's a lecturer at Harvard Medical School and the author of a 2004 book, Overdosed America, The Broken Promise of American Medicine. what the way he described their internal conversations about these drugs is absolutely terrifying because it's the money people the people that are just looking at their baseline profits the the responsibility they have to their shareholders and what they need to do to constantly make more money their job is to always make more money and they they're willing to do really awful shit and and push things that aren't even effective don't even work any better than ibuprofen yeah and they're willing

to push this stuff on people and tell them hey you got arthritis we got a cure right i feel like a lot of times when people have mental health issues and they go and seek help a lot of times they get put on drugs like immediately without other and now nowadays there's a lot of other options there's brain treatment there's like hallucinogenics that they're that they're doing like there's a lot of different options now and i feel like that like the like the like the like the pharmaceutical option should be maybe the last option in some situations right yeah in many many situations and in some situations it's a good option and I mean? Yeah. In many, many situations. In some situations, it's a good option. And that needs to be addressed too.

It's not binary. There's some people that I'm friends with that got on antidepressants and it changed their life. Right. Got them out of a funk and allowed them to make changes and then slowly weaned off. My friend Ari, he got on them and then eventually got off of them. And he changed his life he got much more successful and happy and then realized like okay now i'm happy now i'm successful i need to get myself off of this stuff and stayed happy and and stayed successful it's interesting when you start

making different like when you get your your brain pretty good then you start making different life choices you get healthier all around and maybe successful in in your work and you start having like meaningful relationships with people it helps heal your brain yeah you know what i mean it helps heal your perspective yeah it can make a significant how you view life yeah but that's a big one with psychedelics but the problem with psychedelics is they're not profitable and you know you go to peru and fucking take a brew in the jungle that they make out of leaves and it fixes your life like there's not a lot of money in that you know yeah and you don't definitely don't get people addicted to it I think it's starting to emerge though in some of these clinics that are like alternative mental health yeah type of places um I've been doing but

I think I talked to you about this in the past but I I've been doing a bit of brain treatment. So years ago when I was surfing a lot of really big waves, I had kind of a cluster of concussions. Over a six-year period, I had five really bad concussions, and they were all pretty close to each other, and a couple of them were really, really bad. Anyway, I started noticing some kind of mental health issues. Not super bad and not extreme, but it was starting to creep in. Like like my mood started kind of going downhill. I started seeing that I was kind of getting more and more pessimistic, didn't like being around people even more so than like I'm kind of I'm not the most social person. But I started like having like anxiety about going in like big groups of people, hanging out with big groups of people, going to like public functions, stuff like that would really freak me out. Now, I was also getting pretty like mentally sloppy, like a lot of brain fog.

My mental clarity was was getting worse and worse. It's being super forgetful. Anyway, I met a guy who has like a brain treatment center in California. So I went and got an EEG, it's called. So they measure like your brain function, your brain activity. And they get like all this data about your brain. And then I had some brain treatment. And then they sent me a – I got this at-home brain treatment machine.

Basically, I put this thing on my head in the mornings. Is it magnetic? For 30 minutes. Yeah, it has electrical pulses that goes through and into your brain and stimulates brain activity. Anyway, I hadn't had my EEG done in a long, long time, and I was just in California, and I was really curious because I can, so my machine at home is programmed, its protocol is just for my brain, specifically for my brain based off my EEG. And so I wanted to get a new EEG updated so I can update my protocol at home so it works on my brain how it is now instead of how it was two years ago. I didn't know if there was a difference or not. So I got an EEG the other day, talked to neuroscience for like half an hour on a zoom call. He walked me through my chart for my EEG two years

ago, my chart now. And he's like, what have you been doing? And I'm like, Oh, I've had some, you know, I have a machine at home doing my brain treatment, but I'm never home. I don't do that much. And he was like, what, is there anything else that could make your brain better? Because we're seeing significant improvements in your brain function. It is wild. It is wild. And I've noticed it. I've noticed more mental clarity, better mood. And I've done a couple different things.

I told him about the stem cell treatment, but it was right before that. So I don't think that there was a correlation between my current stem cell treatment and this EEG. And he's like, what else have you been doing? And I told him I started TRT just over a year ago. And after I started TRT, I saw, I felt a significant improvement in my mood and my mental clarity and my energy. Well, that is one of the things that happens with concussions, especially multiple concussions, is it damages your endocrine system, damages the pituitary gland, which is apparently very sensitive.

And my good friend, Dr. Mark Gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries with veterans and with football players and fighters, they found that a significant number of them suffer from low testosterone and low hormones because their brain is just not producing them correctly anymore because it's been damaged and by replenishing those with testosterone replacement therapy and hormone replacement therapy they've alleviated a lot of the problems that people had suicidal ideation a lot of a lot of like significant depression issues that they've been able to mitigate with hormone replacement. It's amazing, though, that there's even an option these days.

It's incredible. Well, we're in the right time. Yeah. With stem cells, with TRT, with hormone replacement, with the understanding of nutrition, and with this brain machine that you're using, these treatments, we're in a good time for that. We're very, very fortunate. I'm thankful. I'm grateful for it all.

Dude, if we lived in the 50s, we'd be fucked. Just think about your knee surgery. My good friend Steve Graham, he was on the U.S. ski team in the 1980s. And he had, I mean, he's had some fucking, I don't want to butcher this. I think he's had 70 surgeries over his whole life. He's had his shoulders replaced. He's got two artificial knees. Like everything. But his legs, like the size of his legs, are just covered in scars from these old school surgeries.

Where they would open you up like a fish and take a chunk of your hamstring and fucking drill it in place. And it would last for a little while and blow out. And you have to go in and do it again. Modern medicine is insane. It's insane. Yeah. How precise and like it's so predictable they know it's going to work like my surgeon for my knee was like dude you're you're you're like you're

like tripping on this for no reason shane like don't be a bitch it's just you know what i mean he's like i do this every single day multiple times a day your your knee's going to be amazing like it like 50 years ago like you said it would have changed my life I never would have surfed the same ever again yeah I could surf at a really high level still and saying we're very very very lucky to be living in the time we're living in well even though there's a lot of problems when I lived in Boston in 19 I guess it was 1986 I was 19 and I was working at the Boston Athletic Club. It was the healthcare club in South Boston. And I was a trainer, like showing people how to use machines and stuff like that and putting people through workouts. And Bobby Orr, the famous hockey player was there. Bobby

Orr's knees were so bad because he had so many surgeries that he couldn't straighten his legs out. His knees were always bent and he would walk with this kind of like robotic shuffle. And we used to have to help him get on the VersaClimber machine. He literally couldn't get on it by himself. I mean, this is like one of the greatest hockey players of all time. And his knees were so destroyed and he had these knee braces he would wear,

but he would play racquetball and he would like go for a ball and just fall down. He just like couldn't stand up. That's so crazy. Crazy. Imagine that guy had stem cells. Yeah. Or like modern surgery.

Yeah, modern surgery. If they had modern knee reconstruction like they have today where they put a cadaver graft in there, they fix it. Crazy. They're even able to do cadaver meniscus now, which is crazy. Like I'm missing meniscus on my left knee. I had a pretty significant tear of my left meniscus. So they took a, it was like called a bucket handle tear where I had the ACL reconstructed in 94, I think. And then in 2003, I believe they scooped out the meniscus cause it was just, they tried to sew it back together, but it kept tearing, and then it would lock up. A bucket handle tear is this weird, you know what it is?

Yeah. I heard you talking about this. It folds over and locks in place, and my knee would lock, and it's agonizing. So the only way that they fixed that is they would just cut out the meniscus. So now I'm missing a chunk of meniscus, so the knee is kind of compromised. It's like a little wobbly, and every now and then it swells, but at least it's functional. I can deal with a little discomfort if my knee is functional. So the knee, the structure of the knee is very solid.

It's very strong. I can do all kinds of things. I hike through the mountains. I can kick the bag. But I have to deal with like a little bit of pain and discomfort. But now they're able to – they can do grafts where they'll take meniscus. But it's generally only effective for people that are like 40 and under. I think that's the age. I think as you get older, it becomes more and more of a

problem with blood flow. And I don't know if that's the same with everyone. I mean, I don't know if that's the same with me as a person, someone who's sedentary. I don't know. I don't understand why I would have less blood flow as much as I exercise in comparison to a person who's like 20 years old and sedentary with hormone replacement, with all the other things that I do, supplements, all the different things that I do, peptides. The way you live. Yeah, the way I live. Your diet.

Yeah, the diet, regular sauna use, cold punches. There's so many things that I do that keep my body healthy. Your health picture probably looks pretty similar to somebody like in their 30s or something when you look at, if you look at your overall health. Well, I know for a fact, the way my body functions, it's, it's very similar because like, like the other day I did, uh, eight rounds on the bag. And, uh, I was thinking like, I don't even think of the fact that I'm 56. I just think of techniques. I'm just thinking of boom, boom, wham. I'm not thinking of like, oh, my God, I'm 56. Be careful.

All I'm thinking of is just fucking 30 seconds left. Push. Boom, boom, boom. Wham. Boom, boom, boom. Wham. I'm not thinking about it. It's like amazing to not have to worry about your body, to be careful, be smart, train hard, exercise hard, recover hard, nutrition, supplements, all that jazz.

But at the end of the day, I have a very functional body at 56. When I was a kid, I thought you were dead when you're 56. I didn't think you'd be jacked and strong and healthy and have all this energy and do two shows a night at the comedy club and do five podcasts a week and do all the other shit that I do in life and feel great. I feel fucking great. Guys in their 50s are functioning at a do in life and, and feel great. I feel fucking great. Guys in their fifties are functioning at a super high level now, which is awesome. It's amazing.

And the coolest thing about it is like, like if you talk to like, um, Andrew Huberman, the stuff, the stuff that he talks about, it's not a rich guy thing, right? It's really not like a lot of people assume it is, but like, like waking up in the morning and you know getting sunlight right away like training food um running a little bit uh you know sleeping good that's all stuff that you can do even if you don't have like a lot of um you know you don't have to be super wealthy to even and like even though even like the hormone replacement thing if you're if you're 50 years old or older or whatever um even that is super inexpensive, relatively speaking. Testosterone is super inexpensive. Yeah.

I didn't know that. When I was younger, I had no idea. Especially when you consider how much money people spend on booze. Yeah. If you go to a bar and you drink for a night, you're fucking spending hundreds of dollars on drinks. That's your whole, that's months of hormone replacement. Yeah. One night at the bar.

And my testosterone is is interesting because i wasn't really low um denise is my doctor and you know i did my my blood work and we looked at everything and and mine wasn't really low for my age i didn't really look into it until i was right before 50 years old for those listening um and i don't really think you should until you until you you, get a lot older. But, but I was, I was at a pretty good level, but I wasn't like in an optimal level. And she's like, you should probably just try it to see how you feel. If you see how you feel, there's no, there's no downside to trying it. So I, so it's like, I do a cream, cream on the nuts before I

go to sleep. Super simple. It's like a little clicker. Click, click, click. And then I also supplement vitamin D, which is a hormone, and I supplement DHEA, which is a hormone. DHEA is, I believe it's from the thyroid. Is it thyroid? No, not thyroid. Can you look it up, Jamie? DHEA is from the adrenal gland. And I think that's where like your testosterone and estrogen are created. And yeah, so I take those three, DHEA, testosterone. I take those as well, as well as peptides. I take peptides that stimulate your body's production of human growth hormone, IGF, and then BPC-157, which is really good for recovering from soft tissue injuries. And that stuff is amazing. Yeah, I did that with my knee for six months. It's amazing.

Yeah, it's great. There's so many different things that they know now that work. And like I said, we're super, super fortunate to be at this time. I've had doctors tell me that the BPC-157, that there's no scientific data to back it up and that it's hocus pocus.

And every single high-level athlete that I know, when they get injured, they get on BPC-157. Yeah, those doctors are crack. Yeah. They're cracked because it's not true.

There's plenty of studies. Like I've had conversations with doctors like, oh, well, saline works just as effectively. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Like you don't – you're not an athlete. Look at you, you fat fuck. Well, there's a reason when someone in the NBA or in the UFC, they get injured and – Yeah.

Yeah. It's a way to help you recover. and yeah yeah well that was a way to help you recover issues with the u.s uh the ufc and usada was uh i talked to jeff novitsky about this who was the head of the the ufc's uh anti-drug program and what he was saying is like usada won't allow these athletes to take ppc 1570 thinks that's wrong he's like you've got to give them the opportunity to recover from injuries and it's not a drug it's amino acid stack right exactly yeah it's it's a a drug. It's an amino acid stack, right? Exactly. Yeah. It's a peptide. Yeah. And it helps your body heal. It really works. And there are studies. I mean, when you talk to someone like Andrew Huberman, he's very high on that stuff. And he's about as legit as you can get. Yeah. And he cites only data and current data. He's up on the latest. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. Thank God there's people like him out there. Thank God. Amazing that we have that as a resource for free on YouTube. Jack scientist. Yeah. That's what you want. You look at that dude. He looks like he should be fighting in the UFC. And he's not selling anything.

He's just like a fricking neuroscientist, scientist, health professional. And he's just strictly going on data. It's not his feelings. He's very careful about not being associated with anything in terms of like what can compromise his integrity good on him yeah good on him

it's so important to have people like him out there Peter Attia is amazing as well yeah he's a good friend of mine he's out here

yeah he's I love his stuff he's a bow hunter as well is he really yeah that's so cool oh he loves it yeah he just got back

from Colorado awesome no way awesome yeah I've hunted with him before very cool I hunted with him

in Utah we went Axis deer hunting out here. Yeah, he's great. He's an awesome guy. Do you have high cholesterol because of your diet at all? No. Like quote unquote high cholesterol from like what people think is high cholesterol? No. In fact, I got my cholesterol tested at one point in time. The doctor thought that I was on anti-cholesterol or low-cholesterol medication. That's surprising. Yeah. Dietary cholesterol is not really what the issue is.

I mean, I'm the wrong person to talk about this. But, you know, obviously there's people that have genetic issues. There's different body types, there's different predispositions to high cholesterol and coronary artery disease and a lot of different things. It really, I think it depends entirely on the individual, but I do not think that the food that's eaten by 95% of the people in the world is the problem, which is meat, the most nutrient dense food in the world. Well, the processed food is the problem. Processed food. Yeah. Processed food, overabundance of calorie rich, simple carbohydrates that people consume on a regular basis, fructose corn syrup,

all that shit, all that shit is terrible for you. And, you know, and that's the problem with these epidemiology studies is that when they ask a person, like, how many days a week do you eat meat? And you say, well, look, if you show the people that are eating meat five days a week, there's higher instances of cancer. Yeah, but let's break down what else they do. How many of those people are drinking every night? How many of those people are smoking cigarettes? How many of those people are eating high-processed food with that meat? What's the form that meat comes in?

You know, does it come in a Burger King Whopper or is it from grass fed steak and broccoli? Big difference. Yeah. Big fucking difference. Huge difference. Big fucking difference. There's just so many factors that lead, and all I know, I'm not telling you how to live. I'm not telling anybody else. All I know is how I live is the best way for me. I have never had better results than the way I eat. And I'm not the anybody else. All I know is how I live is the best way for me. I have never had better results than the way I eat. And I'm not the only one.

There's a lot of people that eat the way I eat now. And it seems counterintuitive based on conventional medical advice. But I'm all in, you know, and I feel fucking great. Yeah. Well, you look great and you live great. You know, I have more energy than anyone I know. You're so damn busy. It's ridiculous.

You do so much. You're like the busiest guy ever. I'm busy, but I'm happy. Yeah. It's all good things. It's all good things. It's all things I enjoy. And it's things you're choosing to do.

Exactly. And they keep you young. That's the difference. Well, they keep you engaged, you know, but you got to be careful. You know, you got to be very smart and taking care of your meat vehicle this is the thing that you use to travel through this life yeah I only got one of them yeah allegedly you don't get a redo as far as I know no you might I don't know who knows what happens when you die it's all just guesswork but right now you know you're alive and take

care of yourself you can it's possible to do you just have to be dedicated to it and it has to be a thing that is just a normal part of your life like brushing your teeth taking a shower normal stuff so you got to be a part of your life well and we have guys like that guy mark sisson how old is he he's in the 60s right he's in the 70s 70s he is great fit dude he's setting the bar high yeah really high i like that full of energy yeah very healthy vibrant yeah super sharp yeah and again that company that primal kitchen is a fucking great company good stuff healthy choices yeah yeah it's uh again we're very fortunate that there's enough alternative sources of information where people do have the data and they do understand.

Like cut through all the – like there's so many people that are still poisoned by the studies that the sugar industry funded in like whatever it was, the 1950s or 1960s, where they bribed scientists to say that coronary artery disease is caused by saturated fat, which is just not true. What it was was sugar. And they knew that these people were over consuming processed foods and sugar, and that was leading to the decay in their health. And they passed the buck on to saturated fat. And they got people eating that fucking margarine bullshit. And I can't believe it's not butter and all that crap, thinking that they were doing better, that they were being healthier than actual butter, which is actually good for you. You remember when we were kids, we were told butter and eggs were bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remember the food pyramid? Yeah. The bottom of it was all bread. Yes. I watched a snippet of a TED Talk recently and it was like a health, like a longevity expert.

And he was talking about health and longevity. And he said, if someone told me that they wanted to get diabetes as fast as possible, they would, I would tell them to eat the food pyramid. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty wild. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. That's so crazy. We just think about how many kids grew up with sugary cereals. Yeah, I did. Yeah, me too. You're getting kids addicted at an early age to sugar. It's changing their gut biome.

It's getting them craving this bullshit that's not even food. Sugar is powerful, man. It's so powerful. That's my biggest weakness. I'll eat a small little breakfast, like my my biggest weakness i'll eat a whole like i'll i'll eat a small little breakfast super healthy i'll wait until like one o'clock like i'll train i'll go surf do all this healthy shit and i'll wait till one o'clock and i'll make like myself like four eggs a big venison burger and avocado that's it that's great and i'll mac that whole thing plenty of food, right?

Yeah. Probably, I don't know, 1,000 calories or something. Yeah. The second I'm done, I get like a little bit of sugar cravings and I'll be like, like walking by my freezer

and I'll be like, Ice cream. I'll make a little acai bowl, a little sweet treat. Yeah. And I'll make an acai bowl that's like a, I'll put like whey protein in the acai

and I'll blend that up and I'll put it in a bowl with granola, berries, bananas, honey, and peanut butter on top. Sounds really good, but it's like pure sugar, and it's huge. And it's just like a sugar. I'm not hungry at all. It's just a sugar craving, but it's powerful. Yeah, you can over consume because of

sugar it's so easy very easily so easily yeah that's my biggest that's my biggest vice yeah you have no vices what are your vices oh yeah food now cigars i guess is a vice but food food yeah my my biggest look i'm not right now no well i i just cut it off but But if I let myself go, it's pasta. It's lasagna. Yeah. Linguine. The Italian vibes. Yeah, the Italian vibes. I fucking, I'll go hard.

But then there's also like the difference between the pasta that we get over here and the pasta in Europe. Yeah. You know, when they use that heirloom wheat, they use ancient grains. It's like they're not fucked with the way that we fuck with them over here where they increase the yield per acre so they change what the the grains are and more high more complex glutens your body it's harder for your body to process yeah it's more inflammation and it's covered in glyphosate oh yeah that's another big one that's another big one that no one wants to investigate that scares the shit out of people and there's so many apologists that are tied to the fucking pesticide industry and the herbicide industry. It's so scary.

So many people that want to downplay the fact that— That's pretty heavy. They did a study recently, and they found that 90-something percent of people have glyphosate in their blood. I think about that all the time, man. It's so gnarly. It has such gnarly health health like negative health impact i mean it's crazy i i was before i came here i was watching youtube i got down a rabbit hole and it was it was like a little thing it was like a

like a documentary about there's this massive upswing in the amount of people in their 20s and 30s that are taking viagra so men in their 20s are taking Viagra. Wow. Super, super common. Wow. And they're saying it's because their testosterone has dropped so much that it's really difficult for them to perform sexually. Well, there's also microplastics.

Microplastics, which is- Glyphosate and microplastics are some of the biggest things. Yeah. There's a lot of things that are disrupting our endocrine system. Yeah. Well, I talk about it all the time, but there's a doctor, Dr. Shanna Swan, who wrote this book called Countdown. And she makes this connection between the introduction of petrochemical products and people using them like microwaving with plastic and plastic bottles and all these different things that leach plastic and chemicals into your... And the direct decrease of male testosterone, the shrinking of human beings' taints when they're babies, which is a direct indicator of whether someone's a male or a female. In males, in mammals,

the taint is 50 to 100% larger than females, but they're shrinking. And then also miscarriages in women. There's a much higher instance of miscarriages and infertility. And she thinks a lot of it is directly attributable to these plastics and these phthalates, these different chemicals that get into the bloodstream. All of our food comes in plastic. Yeah, it's fucking awful for us. Yeah. What a weird world we live in.

It is. Billions and billions of people. We have to feed all of them. So we use monocrop agriculture. So we've ruined the topsoil. So we're using industrial fertilizers and all that stuff pours off with rainfall and gets into the rivers. And there's so few farmers that have decided that people like White Oaks Pasturesures like will harris the guys i've had on this podcast i've talked about this too many times but i'll say it one more time there's a

there's a video that shows the difference between his farm and the neighboring farm his farm is an industrialized farm or the farm next to him rather is an industrial farm and his farm is a regenerative farm and it shows when rainfall hits and the water rushes through the topsoil and his neighbor's farm, it's polluting the river very clearly. A very clear line of property between his farm and the neighboring farm and what it's doing to the environment. Just polluting rivers with pesticides, herbicides, industrial fertilizer fertilizer all that runoff and it just gets right into the rivers killing fish and has an impact over the decade the last couple decades

of us consuming it all this is the river that runs near his property so this is his neighbor's property and look at his property look at the difference it's fucking bonkers man when you see the clear difference between the two places, I mean, it's a direct line. Yeah. That stuff has an impact, man. Yeah. It really does. Well, and I don't know what the fuck we can do to mitigate it at this point. You can eat all elk. Yeah. All elk. But not everybody can. No. That's the thing. It's like, and I've heard that argument before, like, yeah, you're out there hunting for your food, but everybody can't hunt for their food. Right. But you can't ask everybody to.

But as an individual, you can make healthier choices. And healthier choices is buying food from regenerative farms. There's plenty of them in Texas. There's plenty of them that exist. There's polyphase farms. There's white oaks pastures they deliver to you. There's plenty of regenerative agriculture. There's a company that I work with, Carnivore Snacks. It's my favorite.

If I need to run out the door and I'm looking for something healthy that I have to eat, like if I'm in my car, they have these carnivore snacks. It's sliced ribeye. It's just ribeye with salt. And it's almost like a meat pastry. It's not like jerky. It's just ribeye with salt. And it's almost like a meat pastry. It's not like jerky. It's so delicious. And it's got fat on it. And I bring them to the UFC.

Like when I'm at the UFC and I have to sit there for six hours, that's what I eat. I eat those. And it's from a regenerative farm. Like you can find healthy choices. Maybe those healthy choices aren't available to 8 billion people. Yes, that's true. But you as an individual can choose to use those healthy choices in your life. And if you can't afford them, this is your health. Do the best that you can to make sure that you get the healthiest food in your body. Do the best. No doubt. And it's never been easier to

find them either. It's so much more widely available than it was even just a few years ago. People are so much more conscious of it now. You know, when we grew up, people used to really believe that, oh, just eat a balanced diet. You don't need to do anything like, oh, what is a balanced diet? Like, what are you saying? Yeah. And talking about the food pyramid work done. Do you know like how your body's functioning? Do you know how it's optimized? Getting your blood work done is super important, way more so than I would have thought like 10 years ago. No, I think so too. My wife kept telling me, you got to get your blood work done. You got to get blood work done. All the stuff

you're eating, everything, how you're living. You want to, you want to see that picture. I would have never thought I was deficient in a bunch of stuff. Crazy vitamin D. Yeah. That's a weird one. I would have never imagined that a surfer is deficient Crazy vitamin D. Yeah. That's a weird one. That's a weird one. I would have never imagined that a surfer is deficient in vitamin D. Yeah. I feel great. Yeah. Well, that's good, dude.

You look great. I'm really interested to hear your results from this insane stem cell regimen. Yeah. I'll keep you posted. I've been doing it.

I don't do the selfie video thing pretty much ever on my social media stuff. It's just super cringy and something I don't feel comfortable with, but I've been doing it lately. So I've been trying to share my experience and kind of just tell my story about what I'm doing, where I'm going, how I'm feeling and sharing my protocol just because I have a lot of personal friends around my age that are

pretty beat up. And some of them are considering surgery and everybody's got, you know, aches and pains and injuries. So I'm trying to share it for them. And then I just had an incredible amount of feedback from people who want to know more. I feel like from all the stuff that I'm doing and learning, I can help maybe demystify the stem cell thing. It's like, seems pretty misunderstood. So I don't know everything there is to know about stem cells. I'm not pretending that I do, but what I'm finding out, I'm trying to share with people. So I'll try and keep you posted.

That's awesome, dude. Please do. And I really want to hear like what it does for your back because the disc thing is very interesting because I do know that there have been some examples of people that have had these injections and that have increased their disc space where the discs have actually grown. So people that are suffering from regenerative disc disease and were told that they might need fusions or they might need an artificial disc, they've managed to stop that. That's awesome.

I have a friend named Mike Escamilla. He's kind of like me but in a BMX category. So he was like an X Games athlete like a like a bmx guy um super high level athlete energetic really fit um beautiful young family kids and um his back got worse and worse and to where he he could barely get out of bed couldn't work couldn't like live his normal life i got so bad to where he was like really really depressed and um he went i would that's part of the reason i got stem cells recently but he went to the same place uh cpi the place i went to in mexico and got the stem cell injections in his back and 10 months later full life changer full-on he's like thriving he's living virtually pain-free like i talked to him on the him on the phone like four weeks ago because I wanted to kind of see what the process was like.

And he's like, I'm not joking, dude. You're going to trip out on your back. I didn't. My back was not nearly as bad as his was. But, yeah, he was like it changed my whole life. How often can you do it? Did you ask them like how many times you can go back? I don't think there's really a limit. I don't think you can do it did you ask them like how many times you can go back i don't think there's really a limit i don't think you can do it really really consistently but i know people who go there for

the ivs all all the time they go once a month for stem cell ivs and then the fighters all the the ufc guys like there was a couple different fighters there when i was there um and they go after every fight wow yeah makes Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, you have to be proactive about recovery when you're dealing with a fucking sport like that. And, you know, it's just such a shame that you have to go to another country to get that done. It really is. Yeah.

The cool thing is they have a cartilage-specific stem cell now. I was going to tell you that about your meniscus because my understanding is your meniscus is a lot of cartilage, right? But they have a cartilage-specific stem cell now. Really? Yeah. What is that? And there was, I forget the name of it.

It starts with an M. But a bunch of people when I was there were getting the cartilage stem cell based on their MRIs. So if they had cartilage issues and their doctor felt like they did, they would give you the option of adding cartilage stem cells to your injections. So that's something to think about. Well, keep me posted. I will let me know. Um, if, you know, I've got a bunch of back issues, I've been able to mitigate them, you know, um, and, uh, they don't bother me nearly as much as they did when I was younger. Cause it's just, I'm very proactive about strengthening my back. I do this whole core series where I strengthen all the muscles in my back and my neck.

I use the iron neck and all those different things. Around the sides too. Yeah, everything. I do everything. The core stuff helps a lot. It helps a lot. Just to keep that whole area stable and strong and reinforce it. Anyway, brother, good to see you.

This was fun, man. Always fun. Always fun. Always good to see you. Keep me posted, man. Always fun. Always good to see you. Keep me posted. I'm really excited to hear that. I might have to travel down there myself. Yeah. All right.

Thanks. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.