The Joe Rogan Experience - #2069 - Dr. Shawn Baker

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

Dr. Shawn Baker is a physician, athlete, author of "The Carnivore Diet," host of "The Dr. Shawn Baker Podcast," and co-founder of online medical clinic Revero. https://carnivore.diet/shawn-baker-links/

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day good we're up awesome sean good to see you good to be back joe thanks you're still alive you've been eating nothing but meat you're still alive i am still alive fucking doubters be gone yeah yeah hey joe before we get started i just want to say thank you for, one, for the stem cell stuff, but also for just having the conversations that other people are not willing to have. And I've seen where they try to cancel you and all the BS, and you didn't have to do that, but you let other people have discussions so we're not being censored. So just in case other people have.

I'm sure you've been told that before. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It's a weird time, man. It really is. First of all. It's a weird time that a guy like me has a show Which is bizarre that this kind of you know that I'm a source of information in some sort of strange way because That's certainly not what I set out to do just along the line. I'm you know, I'm curious I wanted to talk to people, you know, including you and this diet. And, you know, I tell people I, uh, I'm not strict with the, my carnivore diet,

like Saturday night I had sushi, but I'll tell you, I felt like shit afterwards. I ate a ton of it. I ate so much. I'm a glutton, but, uh, all that rice, I was like, Oh, it just makes me realize like how much better I feel when I only eat carnivore. When I just eat mostly meat, I feel so much better. I mean, maybe it's anecdotal. Maybe it's just me and you. And many other people that do it. But there's something to it.

But you're an extreme example because you have been doing it now for how many years? So I'm starting my eighth year. So just- Eighth year. Yeah. So when I came to see you last time, it was six years ago. So I had just finished seven years now.

So yeah, it's been a while. And people should know that you're actually a doctor. You're an orthopedic surgeon and you didn't, didn't at one point in time, they took your license away because you were providing medical information, but you got it back. Yeah, it was kind of an interesting thing. So when I was, I was practicing medicine, busy orthopedic surgeon, you know, plugging away, doing a thing. And then I started realizing, Hey, I can have people avoid surgery by changing their diet and their pain went away. I was like, you don't need surgery. Well, that is not what hospitals want you to do. They want you to, you know, keep the keep the engines turning, so to speak. And so I, you know, said, hey, look, I want to practice some lifestyle stuff. And that ended up, you know, leading to a long battle with myself in the hospital.

my privileges and went to the state. The state said, hey, you can fight this, you know, in our sort of state medical board situation, or you can get independently evaluated. And I said, well, let me just get independently evaluated because I don't see how to have a hospital. And so that was done. It was like right at the time when I saw you a couple of days before. And they came back and said, there's nothing wrong with you. Go back to work. And so I got that. I got that. And then I had to you know reapply to the board reapplied for a license they granted my license and i renewed it three times since so i'm a licensed medical you know licensed doctor you know uh but i just you know right now i'm not actually actively practicing because i got frustrated with the medical system i think

our health care system has some serious serious problems you know some serious conflicts of interest some serious i think the the incentives for providing what I think is appropriate healthcare is misaligned. And so, you know, over the last few years, so we set up a company, which is called Rivero, and we're licensed in all 50 states. We have physicians all across the country, and we're basically set up to provide what I call actual healthcare, root cause medicine, get people off the medications, actually, you know, try and fix their disease and not just medicate everybody because we have such a system where everybody's just like you go to the doctor you know here's your diagnosis here's your drugs keep stay on

the rest of your life which I think is wrong with the wrong course yeah I couldn't agree more what's the name of the company so the company's called Rivera revere oh and so we raise a bunch of money from from crowdfunding and also Yeah, I couldn't agree more. What's the name of the company again? So the company is called Revero, R-E-V-E-R-O. And so we raise a bunch of money from crowdfunding and also a bunch of venture capitalists. And so we've been basically building that. We've got thousands of people that are basically on the waiting list. We launch in a couple weeks. And so, you know, so like I said, it's going to be something that I think will provide healthcare as it should be.

You know, instead of, like I said, instead of just the symptom management, putting band-aids on stuff, actually getting people healthy. Cause I think a lot of diseases are reversible and we've seen that all the time. You know, we see that pretty frequently. Well, that's one of the most fascinating things about this carnivore diet is how many, albeit anecdotal stories you have of people that had all these different conditions, chronic pain, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue, all these different issues, skin issues, eczema, all these different things that they were treating with medication. It wasn't working. They were experiencing side effects. They start eliminating everything from their diet except for meat, and all of a sudden these problems go away.

I mean, there's too many of those stories for it to be ignored. Yeah, I've been astounded by the number of just crazy, crazy things that have happened. And again, it's not that that is the most profound, rigorous type of type of science that you can do. But it's you can't ignore it at this point. There are literally probably hundreds of thousands of people now. I go over. I've been all over the world now talking about this. I get people from Germany and Greece and, you know, China and Japan and Africa that have all done this analysis.

Same thing. Look, I was sick and now I'm not sick anymore. And so whether or not that is, you know, enough evidence to say this is, you know, a good treatment, you know, I can't say that, but you can't deny it's happening. And I'm, I've been trying to get research done. In fact, there was a study done out of Harvard University two years ago. I don't know if you saw that. So there's a guy named David Ludwig, who is a senior author. And David, I've talked to him. He is the most ethical, you know, just like he does not want

any money from industry. He refuses to take anything. He's like, I want to make sure I do pure science. And they did a study and they looked at 2000 people on a carnivore diet. And basically what they saw was like 95% of the people, significant improvement across the board. Now, uh, the thing that was interesting to me is that diabetics, we had like 225 diabetics in that population. 92% of them came off all their insulin. These are all type 2s. That's insane. 100% came off all these other injectable drugs.

The GLP-1 receptor agonist, which we've heard so much about lately, the ozempics and things like that. Semaglutide. Semaglutide, right. Came off something called a PCSK9 inhibitor. No, sorry, the SGLT2 inhibitors. 84% came off their metformin. So it's just like this is clearly a, at least at the very least, a therapeutic tool. And that's how I push this. I don't tell, like, you know, I wrote a book on this.

I didn't say humans are carnivores. I said humans are opportunistic omnivores. If we were living in the Middle Ages and we came across, we're out hunting mammoths and all of a sudden, you know, the ice age is around. And we came across a tree full of Twinkies twinkies i mean we play i'm gonna eat that we'd eat it right because you know we would but i mean it's and you know there's people there's obviously people that eat plants that aren't dead and they're doing okay so we're omnivores but from a disease you know mitigation standpoint i mean a therapeutic carnivore diet is tremendously effective i mean it's one of the more effective things i've seen across the board and so at the know, mitigation standpoint. I mean, a therapeutic carnivore diet is tremendously effective. I mean,

it's one of the more effective things I've seen across the board. And so at the very least, you know, you'd say, let's explore that aspect of it because, you know, like I said, there's people that are suffering and we've got so many people, I know we may talk about vegan carnivore, all the, you know, everything in between, but I think at the end of the day, everybody's eating processed garbage. I mean, we're just eating bullshit. I mean, and that is really one of the problems. And the one thing, and you said this, Joe, when you eat just meat, you're like, I don't want that other bullshit because you're actually satiated. And this is a thing that's, I think, problematic because if you look at, there was a study that just came out now looking at the financial

incentive for ultra processed food. Why do we have this stuff? So now looking at the financial incentive for ultra-processed food. Why do we have this stuff? So you look at the big asset management groups. You've got BlackRock. You've got Vanguard. You've got State Street and Capital. I can't remember the full names of these. But those guys collectively own huge portions of Nestle, PepsiCo, all these other processed food companies.

And they also have significant shares in pharmaceutical manufacturers. So you basically, you sicken the population by feeding them garbage. And then you just, you profit on their disease. And I think that's what's going on. And I think it's really unfortunate. And I think some people make an argument, is there a net benefit from feeding more people versus how many people are getting sick? And I think there's a point where, you know, the line goes, you know, if, if every, most people are getting sick from this and only a few people are benefiting, then you've, you've kind of crossed

that line of, you know, does it, does it, is it for the greater good? And it becomes, you know, the realm of almost evil in my, in my mind. Well, I think it started out with just trying to make money. I mean, that's what started out with the processed foods. And I think then they realize, well, now you're selling more medication to these people. So you make more money on top of that, more money. I don't even think it's a conspiracy. I think it's just opportunity. I think they just look at profits and that's what these corporations are established for That their bottom line is they're supposed to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. Yeah, that's their responsibility their responsibility is to Have like a cute cartoon guy that sells you sugary cereal because you know, I was a kid. That's what I wanted

I want Cocoa Pops. I wanted Frank and Frank and Barry all that stuff. Yeah I mean, there's a reason why all that garbage is like, it's so addictive. It's so delicious. And it's clearly targeted for young people. Clearly. Yeah. I mean, that paper that I talked about, and I think it's in that list. That'll give Jamie.

But it basically says, this is the whole thing. They make tremendous short-term profits for their shareholders. And that's why they do it. So, yeah, it's says this is the whole thing. They make tremendous short-term profits for their, for their shareholders and that's why they do it. So yeah, it's clearly financially driven. You can't blame them. I mean, this is what any business wants to do. This wants to be successful. It's about making money like everything is really. Yeah. That's what they do. I think the cutting the bullshit out is the biggest factor in this whole carnivore diet thing. I really do. I mean, I definitely think there's obviously meat itself. Regardless of the bullshit and the propaganda, meat is the most nutrient-dense food you can eat.

All this crap where they say that meat causes cancer. If meat caused cancer, most people would have cancer. 95 plus percent of the population on earth eats meat. And all this propaganda you hear about you know you're going to get cancer you're going to diseases are going to go all these different things it does not seem to be the case in people that just eat meat when you're looking at my experience i have not and again anecdotal i've never met anybody that went on this diet that didn't have a positive result everybody that i know that goes on this diet that didn't have a positive result. Everybody that I know that goes on this diet.

Now, clearly, there's genetic differences. Some people have, definitely there's people that have that Lone Star tick issue, where a buddy of mine has that. He got bit by a tick, and he developed an allergy to red meat. It's a real pain in the ass for him. And it went away. He had it for a year, and it went went away and it started to come back again. But that's rare. For most people, red meat is a very nutrient-dense food. Yeah, that's absolutely clear. I mean, and your point is, you know, if you get rid of the garbage, you're going to have a benefit,

whatever bite you go on. I think that's clear. And, you know, if you get rid of the garbage, you're going to have a benefit, whatever diet you go on. I think that's clear. And, you know, when we talk about it, because you mentioned you're not totally strict, I am, you know, fairly strict, but I'm not religious about it. I don't sit there like, you know, for instance, my son's birthday was, you know, a couple days ago on Thanksgiving. You ate some cake? I had a piece of pumpkin pie, man. So I hadn't had that in 10 years. But I'm like, you know, no big deal.

I didn't die. But it's not, like I said, my diet literally is probably 98% red meat. I mean, I just eat steaks every day. It's kind of crazy. Well, the videos are hilarious of you eating steaks, listening to vegan propaganda. Just you have a big cutting board and a giant cleaver. And you're slicing off pieces of tri-tip while you're watching vegan propaganda and smiling. Yeah. It's pretty fun to do that stuff. And I, I definitely,

uh, you know, like I said, if there's anybody that has, you know, like I said, if I'm wrong, I mean, it'll be clear that I've been eating meat like significantly for, for, for many, many years. I've put a lot of that on, on video, but you know, one of the interesting thing is, you know, cause of the backlash you often hear is what about cholesterol? Because I think that is a really important thing. I really wanted to talk about that. Yeah. Awesome. Because there's some, you know, I think you saw that thing about the Oreo cookie. Did you see that? Yes, I did. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

So anyway, there's a, so there's a little backstory on this. And last time I mentioned a guy named Dave Feldman and he was, he was a guy that, you know, he's an engineer, pretty smart guy. And he like goes on a, like a low carb, you know, he's an engineer pretty smart guy and he like goes on out like a low-carb You know higher fat diet his cholesterol. He feels great. He's like, oh my god, everything feels great But his cholesterol shoots through the roof and he's like, oh my god, I'm gonna die right, so he freaked out about this stuff and he starts looking into it very mechanistically and spending years and years and years studying this stuff and Finally put together this sort of theory and it's still theory But it's it's they're showing that there's a lot of evidence showing that it's probably likely true, called the lean mass hyper-responder.

And there's something called a lipid energy model. And so what this Oreo cookie thing was is another guy, another researcher. He's a PhD from Oxford. He's also finishing his medical degree at Harvard. And his name is Nick Norwitz. And he basically said, look, this lipid energy model works like this. His name is Nick Norowitz. And he basically said, look, this lipid energy model works like this.

When you cut carbs low and you get lean, right, your body says, hey, there's not a lot of energy in my cells. My liver glycogen isn't full. My muscles aren't full of energy. So I need to get energy there somehow. And so what happens is the liver starts sending fat out in the bloodstream, like to, to, so you have energy to work. Right. And so what, what he's showing is that if I just add Oreo cookies or some other energy dense, maybe junk food in there, um, the body will say, Hey, I've got plenty of energy now. So the liver shuts down. It doesn't traffic the cholesterol anymore. The triglycerides and the cholesterol. So that sort of validates what's going on here. But the question is,

is it bad if my cholesterol is really high, but I'm fit, I'm lean, I don't have diabetes, I don't have prediabetes, I don't have insulin resistance, I don't have high blood pressure, I'm otherwise metabolically healthy, because you see these people. So you see they're lean athletes. They go on a diet, like a carnivore diet or even a ketogenic diet, and they're like, I feel great. It's the best I've felt in years, but my cholesterol is through the roof, so I got to stop. And so that's the real question. So on December 8th, there's going to be a landmark study that's going to be presented by a guy named Matt Budoff, who's a cardiologist out of UCLA. I think he's attached to UCLA somewhere. And basically what they did was they took 100 people, all who have sky-high cholesterol. We're talking like total cholesterol,

500, 600, 700 milligrams per deciliter. It's enough to give your doctor a heart attack. You walk in there with your cholesterol, it's like 600, what the hell? So he's got all these patients, they're that. They are all otherwise metabolically healthy though. None of them are diabetics. None of them have blood pressures. They're relatively lean. And what they did was they did high-level CT angiography of these people, looking really detailed at how much plaques in their blood vessels. And they're all older guys. They're like average age, like our age, like mid-50s, like mid-late 50s, right? So this is where you'd expect to start seeing heart disease. And when they did that scan, almost none of them had any level of significant, you know,

vascular disease. They were like clean, clean arteries. And so, so what, and what they're doing is they're running them for a year and then they're going to repeat the study, right. And say in one year has anything occurred? Now the criticism of that will be that, oh, it takes 20 years to do that. But Matt Budoff is like the world-leading expert on how fast vascular disease develops, right? So he's a guy that designed the study. He knows this stuff. So he said, a year will show us for sure if vascular disease is going to occur. So what they're doing on the 8th is they're showing the preliminary data that shows all these people have almost no heart disease. And they compare it to something called the Miami Heart Dataset, which is like the perfect dataset for if you want to compare what's going on with vascular disease. And so in February, they'll finish up the collection of data

and then we'll get to see what happens after a year. Now, I suspect what will happen is they'll show no progression, little progression, or even reversal, which would be shocking because all these people are saying cholesterol causes heart disease. Because if you listen to guys like, because I know you've got Peter on here, Peter T. on here, and he says, look, it's just a matter of how much cholesterol over how much time. If it's high for a long period of time, you're going to get heart disease. But if this turns out to be what I think it's going to show, which it likely will show,

But if this turns out to be what I think it's going to show, which it likely will show, then that throws a monkey wrench in that whole theory because it's like, wait a minute, maybe it's a dependent variable. Maybe if you're not fat, you know, out of shape, have high blood pressure and diabetes, that that LDL cholesterol being high is not as much of a problem as we thought it was, which is, I mean, that's really, I mean, that's paradigm shifting, quite honestly. Where did the theory of LDL cholesterol being bad for you come from? Well, I mean, that goes back into the, I mean, when they started looking at cholesterol, this is in rabbits way back in the, like the 1920s or something like that. They started feeding rabbits, high cholesterol diets and the rabbits got heart disease. Well, rabbits don't really eat high cholesterol. No, they don't. They don't really. It's an unnatural diet for them. But they started looking at, you know, the associational data started out back in the 50s when Eisenhower had his heart attack and everybody's freaking out because, you know, we saw a rise in heart disease, you know, 1940s, 1950s. And it's been, you know, it's been a number one killer in Western population since then. And so a guy named Ansel Keys was one

of the ones that started promoting that theory. They did, you know, associational studies where they say, well, look at these countries, they eat a lot of saturated fat and they have a high cholesterol and they die more commonly out of heart disease. And so that basically data has been done over and over again. I mean, they've done Mendelian randomization studies, which there's some problems with those types of things. They've done, you know, studies where they can show that, you know, we can lower cholesterol and cardiovascular disease decreases. So we know that, you know, that's the whole premise behind statin drugs.

Some people think it's a pleomorphic effect or it's like a side effect, like maybe it's decreasing the inflammation. And by decreasing the inflammation, you're actually improving heart disease But there's been I mean there. I mean there's a ton of evidence that would point to yes That is what's going on now what I would say is again. You're looking at a general population And the other thing is all-cause mortality so clearly there's a lot of evidence that points to like Like normally they like your total cholesterol below like 190, LDL below 100, something like that. But if we look at like population studies and all cause mortality,

cancer, heart disease, dementia, infectious disease, so on and so forth, the people with higher cholesterol actually live longer. They're the ones that live longer. And so the question is, you know, maybe I won't get a heart attack, but I'm gonna get cancer instead because my cholesterol is too low, perhaps. Now, the critics of that will say it's reverse causality. It's like, well, the only reason your cholesterol was low was because you had cancer, right? And cancer is making your cholesterol go down because cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and some of the other lipoproteins actually have a function. They participate in our immune response.

So it's there for a reason. It's not just for the hell of it, right? We have a reason for this stuff. And so, you know, but there's a, I mean, there's a plethora of studies on this stuff. Some of it's been paid for by the pharmaceutical industries, which, you know, of course, there's a little bit of conflict of interest in some of that, you know, I would imagine. But again, if you talk to 99% of cardiologists, they'll be on board with this. But like I said, this sort of population, which we never studied, we have no data on these people.

You know, it's like if you go on a carnivore diet and, Joe, I know you've gotten lean, you feel good, probably your blood pressure is good, probably your glucose is good. Does that mean it's dangerous for you? And the answer is we don't know yet, but this study will shed a ton of light on this. And so this is coming out, like I said, the preliminary data, December 8th, when Budoff presents to the big conference. And then when they finish collecting the full data in February, they'll probably publish that probably spring, summer, something like that. Are you aware of any of the results?

I'm aware of the preliminary data, right? And I talked to the researchers and they're like, man, they know the results, but they don't want to share it because they don't want the cat getting out of the bag early. But we're going to get it on December 8th. And basically, what I think, I'm 90% certain what it's going to show is people with super high cholesterol that are otherwise super lean and healthy compared to the average population have less risk for cardiovascular disease based on this data. That's what I think is going to happen. Now, we'll know for sure on December 8th when Rudolph presents. There's also an issue with dietary cholesterol and what dietary cholesterol, how it shows up in the body. People have this assumption

that when you consume dietary cholesterol, it raises cholesterol that you can measure in the blood. Yeah, that's been shown to be completely... In fact, 2015 USDA said, no, cholesterol does not cause elevated cholesterol in the blood. That's been shown not to be the case. Which is fascinating. Which is fascinating. But they'll say, what they will say is saturated fat,

which often runs with cholesterol because the only place you get cholesterol is in animal products. And very often you'll get saturated fat in animal products. And so they'll say, but it's, it's not the cholesterol, but it's actually the saturated fat. We know that saturated fat was demonized by the sugar industry. Yeah. In that bullshit study that they put, put out in the 1960s where they paid these guys the equivalent of $50,000 today to lie. Yeah. I mean, that's, that Yeah, I mean, that clearly happened.

That was Harvard University where they basically took a bunch of money to basically demonize fat and protect sugar. And I think that's been going on for a while. Which is wild. The sugar industry bribed those doctors, and that information has been the basis that people have been making recommendations on forever on a fraudulent study. And still to this day, doctors will cite that not knowing it.

And when you tell them about it, they're like, what are you talking about? And then you'll show it, pull it up on Google, and they just go, huh, what is this? Like there's so many doctors that aren't aware that the demonization of saturated fact was specifically caused by these papers, by these doctors that were bribed. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it is crazy to think how much, you know, you'd think that science would be a quest to find the truth or to explain the observations around this. But a lot of times, you know, science now is marketing. I mean, it really is. I mean, it's paid for. Companies are going to benefit from this. You think about a lot of these academic institutions, a lot of their funding comes through industry. And they don't get funding if they don't get the results that they're getting paid for.

It's even more insidious than that because the people that are involved in the FDA eventually go and work for these corporations, which is so wild. When you see that happen and you go, oh Oh my god. There's a clear revolving door It's not like shell corporations or some secret hidden money Overseas no, it's like right in front of your face. These people work for the government They make these laws and they make these recommendations and then they go on to get these incredible jobs So they get paid lucrative amounts of money. Yeah. Golden parachutes, right? It's crazy that that's legal. It's not only, I mean, as you probably know, like the FDA, I mean, corporate capture.

I mean, the FDA for new drug, for new drug approvals, it's like 65% of that budget comes from the pharmaceutical industry itself. So they're like, they're paying to regulate themselves. It's wild. So it's kind of crazy. And the USDA is not any different, you know, because we talk about our food stuff. I mean, these guys that go on to become, you know, executive, you know, big people in the USDA often do the same thing. They'll go on to these food companies and they'll have the same sort of situation. And so dirty business. Yeah. Here's, I'll tell you, here's an interesting thing. So I've been trying.

So like Harvard recently came out with a study, nonsense epidemiology, that red meat is contributing to diabetes, increase your risk for diabetes, right? And this is a study done by Harvard. Walter Willett has been the chair. He's been vegetarian. He's been conflicted for years. But basically what they did was they said, well, we're going to count lasagna as red meat. We're going to call it sandwiches as red meat. And the people that eat red meat, they're overweight, they're smokers. We didn't really correct for that. So it's, but the headline is red meat causes diabetes. Meanwhile, you've got a study that, you know, that Harvard did three years ago with David Ludwig says, look, these people are eating nothing but red meat and their diabetes is going away. How can those two things coexist? Well, what I'm trying to

do is get an interventional study done. So I, you know, it's kind of interesting because this is how far what I think the problem is. So I went to something called the NCBA. This is the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. This is supposed to represent all the cattle producers in the United States, right? And there's something called the Beef Checkoff. You remember that? Beef, it's what's for dinner. You remember that thing?

It was like Robert Mitchum back in 92. And then I think Sam Elliott. They got great voices, right? Beef, it's what's for dinner. You remember that thing? It was like Robert Mitchum back in 92. And then I think Sam Elliott. They got great voices, right? Beef, it's what's for dinner. You know, that type of thing. This is what they're supposed to do. So they collect. That's part of the beef checkoff.

Like every time a cow moves in the United States, like if you're a cattle ranch and you sell your cow, you got to pay a dollar. If it goes to a slaughter facility, it's got to pay a dollar. If it goes to a feed yard, it's got to pay a dollar. So every year, roughly, we slaughter about 34 million head of cattle every year in the United States, which, interestingly, India slaughters more cattle than we do, which I didn't know that. They do? They slaughter 38 million head of cattle every year.

And you think about India, it's like they're all vegetarian and eating cows. They export most of that. But they have the biggest herd of cattle in the world in India. There's 300 million head of cattle in India. That's insane. I thought they're sacred. Well, they are in some parts of India, right?

But they actually slaughter more cattle in India than we do in the United States, and they export most, a lot of it. There's something like southern India, they still eat a little bit of beef. In fact, there's a lot of carnivores in india right now it's kind of crazy i get i did conferences in india and it's just like wow it's kind of a growing movement down there but back to the point so so we've got this beef checkoff system so every can of ranchers they pay a buck right and and then so at the end of the year they collect 30 40 50 million dollars a year it's supposed to be to promote beef. Beef is what's for dinner, to do research and all that stuff. The U.S. Cattlemen's Association, which represents the cattle producers, but the NCBA represents Cargill and Tyson and the packing things. There's a little

conflict between that, but they have all the money. I went to those guys, to the beef checkoff, and I said, hey, look, we want to spend a little bit of money to do a study on beef versus diabetes because we know the results are going to be. The people are going to go on an all-meat diet or a close to all-meat diet. Their diabetes is going to go away. It's simple, and it takes all the confusion out. Because whenever you do this, you know, you hear all these dietary studies. It's like, oh, but he was eating hamburgers and French fries, and there's all this confounders. And it's like you can't really test it.

I'm like, the perfect way to test if meat is healthy or not is to just put them on a damn carnivore diet and see what happens it's the only way to test it because if you do an epidemiology study and you don't account for sugar sugar drink coca-cola bread pasta lasagna yeah that's exactly that's what harvard did recently they didn't account for sugar intake when they said beef causes diabetes like you gotta be kidding me you're not even counting sugar That's so crazy right, but they but they get this published and this is really bad science, you know and guys like John and itis who's a who's a one of the most cited scientists in the world has basically said all this epidemiology We're doing we're just wasting money. It's not telling us anything This is all garbage, but they keep doing it over and over again because they generate headlines, you know the headlines

I want but anyway back to this beef checkoff thing. So I said, Hey, look, you know, every year you award money, you know, hundreds of thousands, you know, tens of millions of dollars to promote beef. I said, let's get a little bit of money to do a research study on diabetes. And they literally said, no, we're not interested in doing that. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. The beef industry is taking a beating right now. You know, you, you listen to it. It's like everybody wants to get rid of beef. The cow farts are boiling the oceans, and it's going to kill you. It's going to give you cancer, which all of this is largely nonsense. In my view, this type of study would clearly, clearly demonstrate that not only does beef not cause diabetes.

In fact, I talked to the CEO of the NCBA two years ago. I sat down. I presented in front of the California Cattlemen's Association. And literally, the president of the association stood up and said, I went on a carbon diet and cured my diabetes. It's like, yeah, it's clear. And the guy said, yeah, I get it. We're going to help you out.

We're going to get this going. I didn't hear. I heard nothing from these guys. So what I think is going on is the USDA kind of oversees all these checkoffs and they just kind of say, look, you can't say that because we want to promote, you know, because again, they have all these processed food lobbies, Nabisco and PepsiCo sitting on the, you know, they're on the board and they're like, if we promote this one food and people stop eating all this processed food, right, then what are we going to do? We're going to lose a lot of money. You think about you know not that i'm advocating that everybody on a carnivore die because i don't

think that's i don't think it's necessary from you know for one but if you significantly cut back on all those people consuming all this garbage you know what does that do economically to this country i mean you think about how much money is spent on garbage food, the drugs that are needed to treat them? You're talking, I mean, we spend $4.3 trillion a year on health care in this country, and what do we get for it? We've got one of the sickest populations in the world. Our life expectancy is going down. Everybody's fat. Everybody's depressed. Everybody's on drugs.

It's crazy. It is crazy, and it's crazy that they don't look to diet as being the primary cause of that. It is crazy, and it's crazy that they don't look to diet as being the primary cause of that. Or if they do, they look to these epidemiology studies that don't take into account exactly what you're eating with the meat. Why is it meat that's always demonized? Well, I think for a number of reasons. One, if you go back to dietetics in the beginning, like back in 1917, the American Dietetics Association was formed. in the beginning. Like back in 1917, the American Dietetics Association was formed. This was formed literally by Seventh-day Adventists. So that from the very, very beginning, the creation of the nutrition science field, these Seventh-day Adventists who are, you know, religiously

vegetarians, you know, you go back to like the Kellogg's brothers, you know, John Harvey Kellogg, where he's out there, you know, circumcising females and saying, we can't eat meat because it's going to make you have sex and make you have lust and masturbate. This is all like this religious stuff. And then it got— People don't know that, but they should know that he developed this cereal, this bland cereal, to discourage masturbation, which is one of the wildest things I have ever heard. Yeah, that guy was a wacko, man. He was in there— He was a wild dude.

He was giving himself, like, high-pressure enemas every day. It was just like fucking 20 gallons a minute enemas because he thought that was something. Yeah, he was a wacko. He was a really nutty guy. You read about some of his stuff. 20-gallon enemas? It was some ridiculous super high-capacity,

like a super soaker on steroids thing. Are enemas bad for you? Because I've always wondered. If your internal gut flora is important And it is isn't that getting washed out. I think to some degree it is I don't know that anybody's really looked at it from that angle But I you know I I think in some cases like you know some people's got some problems with constipation It could be helpful, but I don't think it's generally a healthy practice for most

But I know there's people that are like like like putting weird stuff up their butt, man. It's just kind of, it's like, I think it probably feels good. It might flushed out. It might. But also makes you see everything come out of you, I guess.

I've never done it, but apparently there's a tube and they look at it. Oh, look, here's your problems. Yeah. It's kind of like these, there's this thing,

these crazy vegans do where they, um, they, they consume like, uh, like this charcoal and this jelly and stuff, and this kind of gruel mix, and then it kind of like fills up their intestines,

and they poop it all out, and they say, that's clearing out all my intestines. I can't remember what they call it, but it's like there's these crazy, crazy videos where they're just pulling all this like gelatinous black stuff out of their butt, but it's like you just ate all that stuff. That's what's coming out of you.

Oh, look, all the toxins. Exactly. You just ate that, stupid. You just ate the same toxins. That's what's coming out of you. Oh, look, all the toxins. Yeah, exactly. You just ate that, stupid. You just ate the same toxins. People are obsessed with that term, like releasing the toxins. Yeah, yeah. You know, they really think that that's what's happening when you sweat. You get in the sauna, you're releasing the toxins.

Like when you're sweating, your body's regulating your heat temperature. Yeah, that's what's going on. You know what clears your toxins? Your fucking liver. Yeah. That's what that thing's for. Yeah, liver, kidneys. Yeah, we got what's going on. You know what clears your toxins? Your fucking liver. Yeah. That's what that thing's for. Yeah, liver, kidneys. We've got a pretty good detox system for sure.

You don't need all the smoothie, juice-fast detoxes. It's like so many people are detoxing when their teeth fall off. They're detoxing their teeth. Well, the other thing is with the smoothie thing is my God, you're getting so much sugar. And you're getting it in a weird form. Yeah.

If you're eating so much sugar and you're getting it in a weird form yeah if you're in eating fruit smoothies you're getting you're getting sugar in a very unnatural form fruit juices we used to think that fruit juices are really good for you most doctors would agree that fruit juices are very high in sugar yeah and to get it in that sort of liquid dose where it just goes right into your fucking bloodstream in your liver. That's a lot of sugar, man. Well, you think about it because you're like, you're out hunting all the time. And you know, you go, when you're going out and you're like, if I had to get food out here, what would I, what would I have available to, to, to eat? I can tell you what you wouldn't, you wouldn't have all this processed food, but particularly like, like powder, you know,

like we make powdered sugar, we make powdered flour and we, we, we combine them together, but we've changed the nature of the food so much that it's interesting you know i saw uh darius was a foreign who's a researcher at tough too he's got to put out the study that says uh was part of the study that said you know like uh lucky charms are healthier than than eggs you saw that last year that's total bs right hilarious but one thing he did point out was that like over the last 20 years or so, we haven't really been eating much more calories than we were. Like from the 1960s to about 2000,

we ate more calories and maybe that explains why everybody got fat. But since that time, we really haven't eaten much more, but we've eaten so much more ultra processed food. In fact, right now the US diet is close to 70% ultra processed, which you think about,

it's like crazy and our kids are getting fat. But one thing that's interesting is like, you know, because you're talking about the microbiome, right? Our gut flora. Um, when you eat like whole food, you know, it goes farther down your digestive track. And then, you know, our microbiome actually consumes some of that up to, up to 22% of our calories can be consumed by our, by our microbiome. But when you're just eating sugar, it goes straight in you. So those calories, your gut microbiome. But when you're just eating sugar, it goes straight in you. So those calories, your gut microbiome doesn't get any of that. So it's like you're absorbing more calories. So just by changing the quality of the food, you're changing how many calories you absorb. And that is what some people say is part of what

leads to this obesity thing. But we know like, for instance, well, here's another thing. USDA came out with a study like i don't three months ago 91 processed food diet is healthy you know this is what they're pushing trying to trying to get us because they're trying to position us to say this study this was usda put it out it was probably i think it was the nova study i think i've got i might have that on there jamie but um it's um it's basically because there's, there's some, there's starting to be backlash against ultra processed fruits. I mean, like South America starting to ban the stuff, which I think, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not for banning food. I mean, I think that gets into,

you know, freedom of choice and things like that. So you shouldn't be just like, you can still smoke if you want to, you know, it's not the best for you. So you don't want to do that. But at the same point, you know, they're saying like this stuff is, there's a lot of backlash and like people like myself and probably you and others just saying, look, this ultra processed garbage is literally killing us. It's making us crazy. It's making us depressed. All these people with mental health disorders, uh, a lot of that nutrition is part of that. And we can talk about that, but you know, what, what they're seeing is there's a backlash against that. Yeah, so that's a Nova. Dietary guidelines meet Nova,

developing a menu for a healthy dietary pattern using ultra-processed foods. Yeah, so they're basically saying, hey, how do we make people eat more processed food and make it quote-unquote healthy? And they showed that they could make a diet that's like 91% ultra-processed foods and still be quote-unquote healthy. Look at what it says here. It says the purpose of this proof-of-concept study was to determine the feasibility of building a menu that aligns with the recommendations for a healthy dietary pattern from the 2020

DGA and includes a over 80% from UPF ultra Processed Foods, as defined by NOVA, designed to accomplish this objective. We first developed a list of foods that fit NOVA criteria for UPF, Ultra Processed Foods, fit within a dietary patterns in the 2020 DGA, and are commonly consumed by Americans. We then used these foods to develop a set, what is that, 7D? What does that mean? Seven day. Seven day. Seven day, 2,000 kilocalorie menu modeled on the MyPyramid sample menus and assess this menu for nutrient content as well as for diet quality using the healthy eating index. The results in the ultra-processed DGA menu that was created, 91% of the kilocalories were from ultra-processed food or NOVA Category 4.

The HEI 215 score was 86 out of a possible 100 points. The sample menu did not achieve a perfect score due primarily to excess sodium and an insufficient amount of whole grains. Right. Conclusions. Healthy dietary patterns can include most of their energy from ultra-processed foods, still receive a high diet quality score, and contain adequate amounts of most macro and micronutrients. Boy. Right. So remember, USDA, the guys that go there, they leave USDA and they go sit on the board of directors at Nabisco and PepsiCo.

And so this is really, I think what this is, it's positioning us as a society to accept that ultra processed foods are our food. It's really human pet food. I mean, you see what happens to our pets. Yes. And everybody's fat, so we're going to say, well, it's still okay. If it's okay if you eat your human dog chow or your human chow, just keep doing that.

Don't ask questions. And, oh, by the way, here's an ozempic shot or a semaglutide shot, semaglutide shot we'll give you to kind of keep you chilled out. So it's really, I mean, it's almost sinister in a way. It's very bizarre. It's very bizarre. It's very bizarre that this isn't challenged. And that shows you how captured our food industry really is. The fact that that's not challenged,

the fact that our health guidelines aren't set on, hey, what you should be eating is what human beings are designed to eat in nature. Yeah. Well, I mean- it's real food. I mean, I, you know, my opinion on dietary guidelines, cause we have a USDA that meets every five years. And by the way, so USDA diet dietary guidelines boundaries, you see there's a physician from, from Harvard named, uh, uh, Fatima Stanford, right? And she went on 60 minutes and said,

obesity has nothing to do with diet. It has nothing to do with exercise. It's all disease and genetic, and there's nothing you can literally do. And she's also sponsored by Nova Nordisk, who makes Ozempic, right? And she's on there. She's also a member of the U.S. Dietary Guidelines Panel. So 95% of the people that sit on the U.S. Dietary Guidelines Panel today, for this next one one when they're going to come up for the 2025 guidelines, all have financial ties to processed food companies. Which, I mean, you think about it, it's just like, this is crazy. It's so wild.

So if you go to like Brazil, like Brazil's Dietary Guidelines, or at least the ones they released a few years ago, it was like, here's what you should do. Cook at home, don't eat processed foods, and eat with people around that you love. And that, that's their literally, that is their recommendation, which I think is better than our guidelines because, you know, I mean, if left to our own, you know, I mean, we are now being told we got to eat all this garbage and it's just making us, it's just making

us sick. It's crazy. And I think, you know, like, you know, I mean, it's like, this is the most, can you remember a time? Cause you and I grew up the same time. We were like, I turned 57 in six weeks. So we grew up the same time back when we were kids. I mean, it's like, when we were kids, we all watched the same fucking shows cause there was nothing else on, right. There was CBS, ABC, NBC, and maybe like PBS, right. And maybe a local news station. That's all you had. So we're all watching Gilligan's

Island and the Brady Bunch and Dukes of Hazzard and Charlie's Angels and stuff like that. And everybody had the same thing, but now it's so fractionated. Everybody's divided. I mean, I don't know if I can't remember a time when this country has been more divided. I mean, can you, I mean, it's just like every single issue, Palestine, Israel, you know, COVID shot, not shot, climate change, no climate change. It's like, everything's a war. It's like crazy. But I think part of that is, I mean, I don't think half people's brains work anymore. I mean, because we're just so nutrient deprived. I think that's really true.

And it sounds crazy to say because people, oh, that's not it. No, it's social media. I think the mental health aspects of social media, which are significant. There's real mental health issues involved in these posts and commenting and seeking things that outrage you. I think it's exacerbated by people's poor physical health. Oh, sure. Sure. I'm going to go back to mental health a little bit. So there is another guy at Harvard. His name is Dr. Chris Palmer. He's a good dude. He's like an Indiana country boy, but he's at Harvard. And he just wrote a book called Brain Energy, where he talks about how nutrition metabolism significantly affect mental health disorders. And, you know, we've got

something like 25% of Americans are on a drug for mental health, which is insane. I mean, it's like, how the hell do we make it through millions of years as a species, you know, or hundreds of thousands of years, rather. But what they've shown in one study, they a species, you know, or hundreds of thousands of years rather. But what they've shown in one study, they showed that, you know, they took like 30 people that were inpatient, like psychotic, I mean, schizophrenia, manic bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, and they changed their diet. They put them on a clean diet, you know, kind of a lower carb diet. And all of them, every single one of them saw a significant improvement in their mental health. And so, but you know, what do we do now? You know kind of a lower carb diet in all of them every single one of them So it's significant improvement in their mental health and so but you know what do we do now? You know if you go to like rehab drug rehab or you put somebody in an institution They just feed them garbage, and they just keep them perpetuating this horrible

Hospital yeah, the hospitals are horrible hospital is terrible food. Yeah, they give you garbage They give you little fucking things, applesauce and cheeseburgers. Yeah, like pancakes with syrup and an orange juice and some jello, like the crappy jello. Yeah, it's all bad for you. You don't get grass-fed steak. No, not at all. No, it's fiber. This is another thing that always comes up when I tell people that I eat only meat.

What about fiber? Yeah. Yeah, so that's a good topic. And so what I would say is fiber is conditionally beneficial. So if you're eating a standard diet, yeah, if you put fiber, fiber really is a marker for diet quality, right? So if I'm some poor guy and I'm eating these potato chips and cookies, I don't get a lot of fiber.

If I got a little more money, I'm probably buying the fruits and vegetables, probably out of guilt. But it generally represents higher socioeconomic status, better overall diet quality. And I think it's beneficial in that situation. But if you go like, is it providing anything that I can't get from meat? So there was a study that a guy named Tommy Wood and the other researchers was Mailer. I can't remember her first name is female. They did a study looking at what happens to the microbiome because we're always hearing, oh, you need fiber to feed your microbiome, right? You need those short chain fatty acids. You need the butyrate or the butyric acid.

Well, they looked at that and they said, look, our gut has incredible metabolic flexibility. said, look, our gut has incredible metabolic flexibility. And so even in the absence of fiber, you can get the same short-trained fatty acids from protein. You can get it from being in a low-carb state where you have more ketones being produced because the main ketone that's in our blood is called beta-hydroxybutyrate, which is very similar to butyric acid. It's only one hydroxyl molecule, and it reverses all the time so they indicated that that you know we don't need fiber for that particular aspect and the other thing there was a recent study um because i see what i see is so many autoimmune conditions you know you know like i know you've talked to jordan and mckayla and you know you've seen these crazy autoimmune

conditions which i've seen in the thousands now it's crazy like crohn's disease ulcerative colitis in the thousands now, it's crazy, like Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, eczema, asthma, you know, anything. That there was a study looking at fiber actually exacerbating problems with rheumatoid arthritis because of its interaction with a particular bacteria called Prevotella copria, I think, or something like that. And so we're seeing, yeah, so high fiber diet synergizes and exacerbates rheumatoid arthritis. So basically, you know, it's showing that, yeah, I mean, there can be problems with fiber for a lot of people, particularly if they have these issues. And so- So when people say that fiber is beneficial, what they're essentially

saying is that if you have a poor diet, if you have a diet that's rich in ultra processed foods and garbage, fiber would be beneficial to you because it would help. What does it do? It helps push that food. I think it's displacing the garbage off the plate, right? So if you load your plate up with fruits and vegetables, which I think generally, I'm not a guy that says vegetables are trying to kill you and nobody should. I know there's other people. It's kind of funny. You talk about cults and carbs kind of kind of become a cult right and it's not because of me i'm like i tell people hey we're omnivores this is a therapeutic protocol use it for as long as you like if you want to do it for a lifestyle have at it it's fine i'm not gonna but i'm but but what i think was

happening with fiber in a lot of ways because this fiber goes back to uh what's the researcher's name i'm blanking on his name he had a cancer named after him. But anyway, from 1920s, 1930s goes to Uganda in Africa and notices like, oh, these people aren't fat and sick like they are in England. And Burkett, Dennis Burkett's the guy's name. And he says, well, oh, they're eating a lot of fiber, but they weren't also, they weren't eating a lot of sugar and they weren't eating a lot of garbage like they were in the UK because sugar has been around since about the 1600s and and progressively has increased I mean the U.S. right now it's kind of interesting like compared to like the 18 early 1800s the average kid by the age of something like eight has eaten more sugar than they would

have in a lifetime back you know 150 years ago so it's kind of crazy by the time they're eight by the time they're eight years old the average eight-year-old has eaten more sugar than somebody would have eaten in their entire life you know and? And that's just the normal kids. You know, you see some of these kids are just like, I mean, I got, Jamie, I got a picture. I got to show you. This is so incredible. Jamie, there's a, there's a gal before and after picture. We got this food addiction stuff. So I interviewed a gal. She was 800 pounds, right? It's like, how do, how do you get to 800 pounds? It's like impossible. Like I could, I don't think I could do it if I tried Right. I mean, I don't you know

Food food at it couldn't stop eating chocolate and ice cream and all that stuff and this is her She's a to almost 800 pounds or 350 kilos, which is the most I've ever deadlifted. So that's kind of an interesting weight, but 22 months she goes on carnival, right? I interviewed her a while back and she's now lost almost 500 pounds on Carnivore when nothing else would work for her. I mean she literally I mean she told me it was like I finally found the off switch She tried weight watchers. She tried like gastric bite you know band surgery. She tried vegan diet. She tried juicing She tried weight watch she tried every single thing you could think of but could never stop stop, stop. And finally, for the first time in her life, she's like, I finally found freedom from this food addiction. And, you know, recent studies show that, uh, that other guy in the hat,

this is a funny guy, this guy in the hat right there, his name is, uh, what's his name? I'm like, I was a Todd. He's a dude out in Montana, right? He was 770 pounds, right? Same sort of situation. Start drinking Cokes when he was 14 years old. I'm doing an interview and he goes, yeah. I didn't know who he was. And he starts telling me, he goes, yeah, when I was 14, I was 600 pounds. I'm like, what? 600 pounds at 14?

It's like, how the hell can you get to 400 pounds? You know, they're a poor family. And his mom and sister and everybody in the family was very obese. And they had tried gastric bypass and it didn't work for them. But same thing with this kid. I mean, he's just like, I call him a kid, he's 40. He went carnivore and for the first time in his life, he's like, I don't need the sugar

and I don't need the Coke. He was drinking like 20 Cokes a day or some ridiculous stuff. And he just blew up and blew up and he could not stop until, and this is why one of the reasons I think, I think they know this. I mean, the food industry knows they're making addictive food. They clearly know that. In fact, I had a gal who worked for one of the major

food manufacturing companies and her job, she was a chemist, and her job was to design food to be as addictive as possible. And she literally told me that she goes, I can no longer get live with the guilt. I want to come work for you guys. And you know, she was just so like, just beside herself, she says she realizes what she's created with this epidemic of disease and guys. You know, she was just so like just beside herself. She says she realizes what she's created with this epidemic of disease and suffering. I mean,

because these people are suffering. Did you see that movie The Whale? Did you ever see that movie? I did not. It's good. It's an interesting movie.

So it's Brandon Frazier and he's like 700 pound dude. It shows he lives in his couch. He lives in his recliner. He can't barely get up. He can barely go to the bathroom,

refrigerator next to him and his whole life and this guy did the same thing. He said he spent like he said he went he fasted one time for 40 days trying to lose weight. Just and he never left his chair. He just sat there for 40 days and didn't eat. Wow. Can you imagine?

That's like hell. That's like hell on earth. You know, but now he's like now he's going back to work. He's getting out in the field and he's working doing like electrical work or something like that. But I mean, it's just the sugar in one. You know, I know there's people out there saying, listen, not sugar is fine. It's all seed oils and something like that. But I mean, it's just the sugar in one way. You know, I know there's people out there saying, listen, not sugar is fine. It's all seed oils and stuff like that.

But I think clearly there are people that are addicted to either sugar or sugary foods. You know, it's like, you know, cause you're like, would you eat chocolate if there's no sugar in it? I mean, it's like, you know, that 100% dark is kind of like, you know, have you tried that? Have you kind of-

It's kind of gross. It is. It's like the only reason you eat that stuff cause the sugar in there so people say well no one's no one's mainlining Bags of sugar, but I mean I actually I know people that have actually done that I'm just kind of crazy you fear you see these people that are so addicted to this stuff, but they've mainline Well, I mean well, I mean they just eat it out of the bag Oh, so it's kind of like they're not sure I got IV And I heroin addicts, but I mean they're they're like you know

Let's go because there are there are people that say they'll do that if they can't get anything else. And you just eat a bag of sugar. They'll sit down. Well, there's the lethal dose for sugar is about like five pounds. If you like sat down and ate a five pound bag of sugar, it would kill you. It would literally cause you going to liver failure. So there is like an LD 50 on sugar. So it is over what time period? Just like whatever, maybe a day or something like that. You know, if you just sat down and ate you know and some of these people you see some of these Have you seen like they call them fat fluencers like these body positive? Yes, you know influencers, but the fat right in there Yeah, and they're they're literally out there and the processed food companies actually pay these guys right they do. Oh, yeah It's the same thing

They're getting kickbacks to promote all this unhealthy behavior and unhealthy food and they're going through what I eat in a day And it's like, you know, you know, everything, you know, it's like Doritos and cookies and Cokes and all the garbage that they're, they're, they're chowing down on. And,

you know, we've got this whole, the body positivity movement is being funded by the processed food industry. I mean, if you didn't know that, I mean, it's like they're, they've clearly shown directly,

directly. They're paying these people to do this. The other thing, processed food company, they're paying dieticians on, the other thing processed food come they're paying dietitians on on social media Also to recommend processed foods, so it's it's just like it's it's I mean it's it's clearly corrupt I mean it's so dirty. It's such a dirty, but it's like a war against your health, and they're the enemy They're the propagandists well, and then they wanted you I mean you've seen this stuff like like you know they come off to you

They say oh, he's a racist or he's a right-wing fascist or something like it because because you're like I don't want to be sick and fat, you know, that's what they come out and say It's it's you know, it's like there was there some article like, you know working out is a right-wing conspiracy. Do you see that? It's like crazy wild It's wild because some people will read that and people that are like extremely averses to being labeled right-wing Yeah, or being labeled racist or xenophobic or whatever it is. They're terrified of those labels. They don't want that smoke.

And so they see these things and it does affect the way they view the world. As ridiculous as it sounds. And maybe one article won't do it. But if you see enough of them over time, you will associate that activity with some sort of problematic label that could be put on you, which is incredible that we're so easily influenced. Some of us. Yeah, I mean, you know, I saw like I know you've had Elon Musk on several times. I know he said like, look, I was a middle of the road dude. And that's me, too.

I was like, I'm just kind of let people live. I'm not political one way or the other. all of a sudden the whole spectrum just shifts way over and it's like if you're not promoting like craziness you're all of a sudden this you're racist crazy person i've always been left wing which is really crazy but the left moves so far away from what the left used to be now you're now a fascist. Now I'm an alt-right influencer. I've seen people label me as an alt-right person. I'm like, that is so wild that they can do that with a straight face. Because I've always, I've said, hey, maybe we should look into universal basic income.

Maybe we should look into universal health care. I think education should be free. You know, I think we should subsidize the schools and we should fix the roads and we should fucking fix inner cities and we should if you're going to use tax dollars, that insanely inefficient. Like if you were talking about if there was some sort of private industry, and the private industry only profited if something was successful, and they got involved in these particular activities, if they got involved in education, if they got involved in dietary health, and the only way they were profitable is if their methods were effective because there's a free market. That would probably work. But when you get the government involved, all it does is make the government employees more wealthy. It makes the government larger and it makes them protect that industry.

We covered that with the homeless thing in California. If you're not aware, there's people that are working on the homeless. There's like a shitload of them. And some of them, they're making a quarter million dollars a year. And they are not putting a fucking dent in it. They're not effective at all. In fact, the only thing that I saw that was effective at all in stopping the tents and the homeless situation was when Xi Jinping visited San Francisco. They fucking cleaned it up like that like you could have done this the whole time what do they do those people where do they put those people I don't know but what are they gonna do now now that GJ ping is gone are they gonna like take

down the fences and let people camp again like you showed that the overall quality of life of the people that live in that city is not important to you what's important is the view the, when a fucking dictator comes and visits, which is so wild. Yeah, I saw, you know, the governor, Gavin Newsom. Do you think he's, I think he's going to run for, I think, I'm just wondering, you know, I try not to get political, but I'm just like, what's going to happen in the next election? I mean, is Biden even going to be able to run?

I think at this point they kind of have to run him unless he dies. We have one year now. We're in November. We're in late November. We have less than a year. What are they going to do? I mean, you could. Look, if Biden died tomorrow, and then what do they do with Kamala Harris?

They're going to put her on the moon. Like, what are they going to do? She's the vice president. So if he dies, she becomes the president, which is fucking wild when you hear that lady talk. What if what if what if like Biden says, like in, I don't know, May, he says, you know, I'm I'm just not feeling up to it. And then and then they say Kamala is now the president. She's the first female president. And then she steps down at the convention and they said let's give it to get to Newsom I mean that's a plausible scenario is possible

But it would be a real problem for people that are Kamala Harris supporters and believe it or not. They exist Yeah, but I mean how I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure the Democratic Party's just like calculating how they have to how big is this? And what's it? What's the thing? I think they have fucking no cards and they're looking at this this game And I don't know I think they're depending upon party loyalty and they're depending upon Trump getting convicted and arrested I mean in in Imprisoned rather. I don't know if that's gonna happen. I don't think it is It doesn't seem to it just seems like it's a bunch of trumped up charges. No pun intended

Yeah, I mean I just Again, I I'm not a political commenter. I'm not expert. It does seem like really like Why are they going after him so hard right now when they could have done it? You know like the the whatever the hotel thing or the valuation the property from 20 years ago It's bananas right evaluation. The property is so obvious so off what it should be 18 million dollars from Mar-a-Lago I'd fucking buy it I'd fucking buy it immediately that shit was 18 million dollars And you were the only one that was able to buy it you'd be a fool not to scoop it up because you could sell it Right away you get a loan, and you can sell that bitch right away for who knows how much I mean if I think Forbes valued

It I think it was like well over 700 million and Trump thinks it's worth over a billion and he might be right that's what's crazy it's a giant piece of property and one of the most valuable pieces of land in all of America I mean a house next to him down the street a much smaller place sold for 50 yeah so it doesn't make sense it doesn't make it. It doesn't make sense if you want to look at banana public, republic tactics. I mean, when you're imprisoning and trying to convict your political opponents, which is, the problem with that is, even if you think Donald Trump is a crook, even if you think that he should be arrested, this sets a precedent for future presidents. This sets a precedent for future presidents. If we get someone who is not just Donald Trump, who has a lot of people in the center that say, hey, his economic policies were effective, his foreign policies were effective, even if I think he's a jerk, maybe that would be better to have a jerk run the country in a way that's better overall than what if someone further right than him steps in? What if a war breaks out? What if things get even crazier?

What if nationalism really upticks? Then you have someone who is now in power that is far right, like has happened all over the world. If that happens and that person, if that precedent has been set for prosecuting your political opponents and going after them with trumped up charges. We have a horrible situation. And that's one of the reasons why we have to stick with the rule of law. We have to stick with the way this country was founded on. These principles were set up because they wanted to mitigate corruption at its base level at every step of the way. They wanted to stretch it out so no one could be an authoritarian dictator and run

America. Yeah, because you talk about the backlash, because you saw like right recently in Argentina, you know, there's a libertarian one, and then just in the Netherlands, which is kind of interesting, because they were like, in the Netherlands, they're trying to get rid of cows. They're like, oh, these cows are farting, they're killing the atmosphere. And the farmers were like, we don't like this. And so they had this, I guess it's PVV or PPP party, freedom party. And they, they won that by a landslide. And so, and he saw in Italy, Maloney takes over. So you've got this, I think backlash coming back. It depends on how far does the pendulum swing back the other way. And you kind of like, I don't know. I mean, day-to-day to me, it doesn't really affect me that much. Cause I'm, I'm not like a political crazy person,

but I'm just like, how does it affect my day-to-day stuff? I mean, a little bit of the COVID stuff, I was a little annoyed by that. I don't know. I was very annoyed by that. I don't know. I just spoke in a conference in Florida, and I had Robert Malone sitting next to me in the car when he was going out there,

and I just kind of saw some of the craziness there, and I know that's a really sensitive issue. It's sensitive, but it shouldn't be. It should be sensitive the other way. Everyone at this point in time should realize that we got hoodwinked. Everyone should realize that it was an overall net negative for children that got kept out of schools, masks, all the shit that we saw that went on. Forget about just the vaccines, the lockdowns, just what they did, the closing of businesses, the essential businesses, that they had big chains labeled as essential, but these small mom and pop stores were forced to go under. People had worked their whole lives to develop these businesses, and they took them away from them.

And it's fucked up. And the fact that no one is outraged still and that this narrative has been allowed to be portrayed through the mass media, that this isn't a major problem and that this cannot happen again. This is fucking madness, man. Yeah, it's like the shirt I'm wearing here. This is from my jujitsu coach. This guy's named Greg Anderson. He was a special— I know that dude. I follow him on Instagram.

He's a good guy. So he, Special Forces, or Special Operations, rather, Army Ranger, 15, 14, 15 tours overseas, comes back as a Seattle cop. And during the pandemic, and they're like, hey, you need to go arrest this lady for doing people's nails at her home. And he's like, I'm not doing that. This is total bullshit, right? And he made a video and it went viral. Yeah.

And the cops, the Seattle police you know commissioner said hey Greg We agree in principle what you're saying, but you got to take down a video like we and he just said no fuck you I'm not gonna do it, so they fired him And so he got like like a GoFundMe page and he raised much money and he opened a jiu-jitsu studio in a CrossFit gym He's like I make more money now has a great jiu-jitsu guy that I ever did as a cop so he's great online, too He's very wise. He's a guy. And he always beats my ass whenever I roll against him. He always arm-wraps me, that motherfucker, man.

Of course. It's just like I try. One time, one round, I got to like within two seconds of the round, and he didn't got me, and he got me in the last second. So it's kind of like, whack. Well, that's the process. Yeah, exactly. I mean, one day you'll be doing that to people.

You can stay healthy. Hopefully, if I stay healthy. And that's what the stem cells are for today. Yeah, exactly. Well, and appreciate it. I guess we day you'll be doing that to people stay healthy. That's the stem cells are for Appreciate that was I guess we'd maybe chat about that. So you've been doing stem cells for for a while, right? Oh, I've cured some really serious injuries with stem cells. Yeah that I was told needed surgery Yes, that's it. That's interesting. So I'm an orthopedic surgeon, right? I'd operate on I replace knees and hips and shoulders and all that stuff over the years. And the orthopedic surgery, orthopedic academy says stem cells don't really work. And so, but the question is, is it because again, there's a conflict of interest there? Because if you're not getting surgery because you're getting stem cells, I'm losing out on, you know, shoulder arthroscopy

money, right? So, I mean, there's a little bit of a conflict of interest there. So I go in it with a little bit of skepticism, but I'm open-minded, and we'll see. Like I said, if I notice, because I want to get back to rolling. The key is you have to not roll for quite a while. You have to really let that thing heal. Well, what I'm planning on, like I said, I got one of those iron neck deals.

You're a fan of that. I talked to the guy, Robert, I think, is the head of that company. And it's pretty cool. I was doing it in the hotel room this morning. But I mean, it was just like, I want to, because I got a long neck. I don't know if you can tell, and it's pretty cool I was doing it in the hotel room this morning But I mean it was just like I want to because I got a long neck I don't even tell I got pretty long neck I'm pretty big strong guy

But my neck is an area where I didn't really like Spend a lot of time developing because I did I mean when I played rugby I did I do some neck bridges and wrestlers bridges And what you'd neck bridge and start bench pressing with the weight on there, but I hadn't done that in years You know cuz I just like that so then you, when I got into jiu-jitsu and I've been doing, you know, two years into it basically and then I just got dumped,

man, I was just like, you know, we were talking about that, I just got landed on my head, dropped on my head and flexed under me because I'm about 250,

260 and the other guy was like, I don't know, 220 and it's just like that combined weight, it was just like, it's a lot of weight.

Yeah, so it's one thing. Necks are a real problem. John John Machado always said, never trust your yeah yeah so that's his so my goal is to make it as strong and as flexible and bulletproof as possible before i go back you know because i i may go back to just doing some like drilling and stuff like that but not the actual live rounds for a while but um yeah you just have to avoid aggravating it while it happens my buddy Shane Dorian who's a big wave surfer He just went down to the CPI in Tijuana and they could do some wild shit down there And then they inject because that's part of the problem with it not being

Completely approved by the FDA is they're limited in their applications, but in Mexico they're not and so they've had Tremendous results and they inject directly into the discs. They put you under anesthesia. They inject you directly into the discs. And they told them, I want you doing anything for eight weeks. Nothing. You're walking. That's it.

Nothing's straining. That's hard to do. It's hard to do, but it's important. It's so hard for guys like you and I that work out all the time. But it's so important. It's so hard for guys like you and I that work out all the time, but it's so important. And one of the things that I realized, I was getting a lot of stem cells in my left knee in particular. I had a torn MCL, and I just wasn't letting it heal properly. I would get the stem cells, and then four weeks later, I'd go back to Muay Thai,

and I'd be smashing the bag and kicking the pads, and then my knee would swell up again. And I was like, fuck. And I was thinking, God damn it, I don't want to get surgery. And then I would go back again, get more stem cells, do it again. And then I finally got the stem cells and I said, okay, I am going to take a year off of kicking. And I didn't do any kicking at all for a year. Now it's back to full strength.

I have no problems with it. I'm slamming the bag, no problems. It doesn't hurt. It's still missing meniscus in there because I had it scoped in 2003, I believe it was. And so there's a chunk of, I had a bucket handle tear. It was a real problem. It was a nasty meniscus tear that I had. So they removed some meniscus, which can contribute to arthritis if you're not careful. But it just gets a little sore sometimes but the structure is not it's not a problem at all anymore and I did a lot of that knees over toes stuff you

know that guy's amazing he's amazing and I love that he puts all that information out there for everybody he just lets you know for free he shows his mom doing it he shows how he had all these knee surgeries and all these problems. And now he can dunk, he can run, he can sprint, do all these different things. So I started incorporating all those knees over toes things, the Nordic curls, the tib bar raises. My knees are significantly stronger than they've been in years. Yeah. I do some of the backwards stuff that he does. I've got a hill up my house. It's about 80 meters. Do you still do hill sprints, Joe?

Do you still do that stuff? No, I haven't done those. But I do a lot of sled work. I do a lot of pushing the sled, and I still run a little bit. I have one of those treadmills that is self-propelled. Yeah, like an arc one. Yes, those are great. Those are great.

I've got one in the garage. Because you're on the ball of your foot, it's fairly cushioned and that doesn't irritate me at all. Yeah, it's supposed to sort of, I guess, provide better feedback for better correct running technique. Yes. It's like the Assault Air Runner is one I've got at home. Yeah, I think that's one I have

too. And it's supposedly like, I think it's 13% more difficult than running regularly. Yeah, I've heard it's a little harder. Yeah, so it's nice. It gives you real good cardiovascular benefits and it doesn't hurt my knees and it doesn't fuck with me. Do you run sprints or what do you kind of run on? I mostly just do distance.

I'll do like time and keep my heart rate in the high 140s, something like that. What percentage of like when you say because you're doing, what percentage of your training is jiu-jitsu versus striking or grappling versus striking? I haven't been doing much grappling lately, so I've been doing more striking than that. But it was mostly because of my knee, because I just wanted to give it time off. And now that it's better. And then I was going through elk hunting season and elk hunting season. I didn't want to fuck anything up because, you know, when you elk hunt, you have to have to you know you're doing 10 12 miles a day and you're doing it in the mountains so most

of my work was i was doing rucking i was doing a lot of farmer's carries i was doing elevated treadmill with weight on my back i was doing a lot of things like that that is just designed stair master i was doing all the different knees over toes stuff box steps all these different things just specifically to condition my legs for the mountains and i didn't want to my knees up well but that's over so now i can go back to you it's not in got it yeah i was just wondering like you know because you because you got a black belt you've been doing it for what 30 years or something forever forever yeah so you kind of like you figure out like i'm still in the learning phase so i'm like the biggest problem for me is like I can't get in as enough as I want to hit that learning curve.

And so I'm just like. The big thing is drilling. Yeah. Drilling is everything. And everybody loves to roll because it's so fun. Yeah, exactly. It's so fun. But really drilling and live drills, you know, like, you know, you and especially if you get good training partners.

Good training partners are everything. Someone who gives you like 50%, 60% resistance. And then you go through a pass phase. You go through a guard pass phase. Or you go through a back mount phase. Whatever your routine is that you do. Just fucking do that over and over and over and over again. I made my biggest leaps when I was a blue belt. Because I'm good friends with Eddie Bravo.

And he and I would drill twice a week we would just get together and nothing but drill nothing but drill and it made massive leaps in my improvement because I was conditioned to hit those my my my body knew what just like tying he would describe it like tying your shoelace you don't even think about tying your shoelace right you get it once you know tying your shoelace, right? You get it. Once you know how to do it, you just, it just does that. You want that with your jiu-jitsu techniques. And the way to get that with your jiu-jitsu techniques is to drill.

Just drill over and over and over again. And practice on white belts. Yeah, that's what I like so much. Because I find, like, you know, because I'm still a white belt. I mean, because I don't go as much. But, I mean, it's just like when I go into the white belt, as much, but I mean, it's just like, when I go into the white belt, it's like, it's like war, man. It's just like, you gotta learn how to be playful. That's what the Gracie's always say. Keep it playful. I try to play, like I have my better roles with the, with the higher belts, like the

black belts. Cause I mean, cause they know, like they can dial it back in there and it's just kind of like, they, they kind of let you work a little bit. So that's really i always but i always try to get the harder ones because i'm like you know i'm like i'm big guy and i like you know that's a problem too is that you're so big yeah yeah you know when big guys it's hard for them to learn that's like a big guy that has a guard is so fucking dangerous that's why fabrizio verdum was so dangerous because he was a heavyweight a giant guy who had a lethal guard because it's so rare because big guys can just get on top they get on top and smash the smaller people and that's fun and so they do that more often than not and it's very rare that you get a big guy that has really

sharp sharp technique most people say the best jiu-jitsu to learn is learn jiu-jitsu from a smaller person you learn jiu-jitsu from you know like one of the mendez brothers or hoyler gracie or someone who's a smaller person physically marcelo garcia yeah so their technique is just sharp has to be it has to be you you there's no options you can't muscle your way around things how many times have you been caught in an arm bar you can just fucking yank your arm out yeah it's better it's a white belt putting on, I usually get out. Usually I like it because then I'm like, I'm going to get out and land on you. Exactly. But if it's somebody good

like Greg, I'm fine. There was a period where I was kind of figuring out, I was like pushing his lower leg down and catching it between my legs and I was doing that for a while and I was kind of defeating him a little bit. Then he of course figured that out and still arm barred me anyway. That's what being a black belt's all about. How much does he weigh?

Craig's 200-ish, something like that. So he's a decent size. He's a decent size, but you have a significant advantage over a weight class. I'm usually like 260-ish right now. Usually I'm about 250. I'm a little fat right now. You've got to learn how to not use that. It's so counterintuitive.

What he says is use it when you need it. I mean, there's times when strength is important. And you don't want to. It's like telling a fast guy, don't be fast. I mean, it's like you want to use what you have to some degree. But that's in competition. What learning and training is supposed to be about is drilling those techniques into your central nervous system, drilling those techniques into your mind and your body so that when the opportunity arises, like when you hit an arm drag, your body immediately knows what to do. It's just instantaneous.

It's not like, oh, okay, I got the elbow and I pull. Now what? It's just. Yeah, I mean, it makes total sense because it's like, you know, like it's kind of funny. Before I hurt my neck, I got all these Dana hair videos. I'm like watching them like, oh, yeah, because John is, he's funny. I mean, it's just like you listen to talking on his videos and he'll just say something off the wall. It's like, Oh yeah.

It's like when you're at the, if you're hanging out at the strip joint last night, I'm like, what? He throws these funny things in there and he's such a good explain, you know, he's such a good guy describing what you're supposed to be doing, what you're supposed to be thinking, why you're doing it. And I enjoy that. But, but again, then you go to a live role and you're like, wait a minute, it's changing too fast for me to keep up. Yes, yes. You can't really picture that. That's why drilling is so important.

Drilling is everything. When you meet guys that drill versus guys that don't drill, it's a giant leap in their improvement, the guys who drill. Another thing that really helps is teaching. When my friends who realize that they really love jujitsu and they started teaching lower belts to make a living, they didn't want to do their job anymore. So they got a job teaching private lessons. Those guys got so much better. It's really incredible. It's extraordinary. The leap that they make because they're concentrating on the basics and

they're, they're explaining it to me, to to people so when they're explaining these things to people it's like cementing it in their mind like really carving those grooves deeply in their mind in their body so their body knows exactly what to do in those situations yeah we used to have a saying in surgery see one do one teach one i mean it wasn't exactly that, but I mean, if you could teach it, then you really had it down. 100%. That's when I got really good at martial arts, when I was teaching.

When I was a kid, I started teaching very early on. My instructor realized that I had some potential, so he told me at a very young age, I think I was like 16 when I started teaching, he said, look, we need someone to teach white belts. You're good and you're very dedicated. If you teach, you can train here for free. So I was great.

I was like, this is awesome. Now I don't have to pay dues. All I have to do is show up and teach, which I love to do anyway. And it helped me. I got big leaps in my improvement from teaching. Yeah, that makes sense. You know what really shocked me is because, you know,

doing this carnivore stuff, a lot of people are reaching out to me i had uh the first time i met like a uh professional mma guy his name was george george carcan and he felt it in bellator and he was very good fighter and he goes hey would you mind if i came to your house and trained i said yeah sure come on over and he's such an i was like this is a killer these guys are assassins i mean their job is literally to beat people up right the nicest people i've ever met i've been i've been amazed at how just super nice all these guys i've met a lot of them now and it's just nothing to prove yeah i mean it's just like that's that's the one thing one of the reasons i like about jiu-jitsu is like it puts the rest of your life in perspective you know you go there and literally like someone's literally like trying to kill you trying to choke you to death you'd be

dead if they like continue you literally die and so you to death, you'd be dead. If they like continue, you would literally die. And so you're like, you're fighting for your life. And then the rest of life is like, well, at least I'm not getting fighting for my life. It's so much easier. The hardest thing you do is always the hardest thing you do. If the hardest thing you do is parallel parking, like I can't do it. You know, it's like it becomes a fucking, a real issue. But if you're used to jujitsu, rest of the life is easy right yeah you know

you're just trying not to get your arm broken you're trying to you know like literally i mean how many people are running around all day where multiple times a day you're trying not to get your arm broken right yeah it's pretty rare but in jujitsu it's insanely common yeah it's like like 10 times in half an hour it's also it's such an insane stress reliever And it's a moving form of meditation because it's so engrossing and it's so all-encompassing You're all your thoughts are on that movement at that time If you're training you're rolling all your thoughts are completely locked in you not think it fuck my electric bill I forgot to pay it. Oh my god. I gotta do this and whatever the end of the month I owe taxes. You're not thinking, fuck my electric bill. I forgot to pay it. Oh, my God, I got to do this. And what about the end of the month?

I owe taxes. You're not thinking of any of that shit. If you're thinking any of that stuff, you're quickly going to be choked. It's kind of funny. And this is trying to explain that. My spouse is like, she sees me coming in. My face is all scratched up. I got black eyes.

She's like, why the fuck are you doing this stuff? It doesn't compute to her. But I'm like, it's so fun. There's such a positive trade-off for that. it doesn't compute her, but I'm like, it's so fun. It's just like, it's so, there's such a positive trade off for that. And the only, like, like I said, I'm just thinking about for like, you know, think about longevity and stuff like that. And it's like, yeah, if I get hurt, then I can't train. And then that's going to have a negative impact on me. So it's kind of balancing that out so that you can still continue to do the things that keep you healthy and still enjoy this. The thing is training smart finding good training

partners like if you train with greg i guarantee you it's safer than training with someone who's like a brute of a blue yeah he's never hurt me you know he's never hurt me but he's he's submitted me like a gazillion times and it's like again that's what being a black belt's all about yeah but if you can just find training partners like that and then also drill you'll be able to train Well, I mean Elio Gracie was training well into his 80s. Yeah, you know, but but if you watch some train He was training with his sons and they were just they were flow rolling, you know So he's always going over the techniques, but there's no spiking him on his head. You know what I'm saying? It's like that, the problem is the actual chaos of rolling

where knees get yanked and, you know, fucking backs get fucked up. That's where the problem lies. But if you can train smart and train with other people

that are also dedicated to training smart, you can continue your improvement. Yeah, that's what I look forward to getting back. I'm thinking probably with this neck thing,

probably, you thing probably you know You know three four months down the road. It's so addictive. Yeah, I remember I was like I Guess I was probably like 27 or 28 the first time I got hurt and I went to a doctor and the doctor's like well You gotta stop doing jujitsu. I was like, okay Fix this and I'm getting right back in there I don't know what the fuck you're talking about Like all I was thinking is like how long do I have to recover from surgery before I can get back to rolling again? That's all I was thinking. I was not thinking like, Oh, I have to stop now.

I was like, what? He was saying, stop. I was like, stop. What? Stop. The one thing that keeps me sane. Like, cause you know, especially if you're a person that deals with other high pressure things, it makes those other high pressure things so much easier. It really does. And it elevates your human potential. Like whatever you do in life will be easier to do because you do something that's so much more difficult than anything else. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, taking the cold, the cold plunge, the cold showers. Like if I get up and do that, the rest of it, like you said, you do that first up and do that, the rest of the day. You said you do that first thing in the morning. First thing in the morning.

So the rest of the day is downhill from there, right? Exactly. I get up, and the first thing in the morning, I'm fucking cold. I go out there. I'm in a bathroom. I'm like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. It never feels good. I never want to do it.

Every single time, my bitch-ass brain tries to find some way to override my discipline and tell me, you don't have to do it today. You've done it three days this week. How about take a day off? Let's go inside and get a cup of coffee and watch TV. I'm like, shut up, pussy. Let's go. And then you get in there, and I just stare at my stopwatch.

I stare at the watch, and I go, when three minutes is over, I'm going to be so happy I did this. And every time three minutes is over, I get out. I feel amazing. I think you've got this crazy like you said rapid river like it keeps circulating water So it's called a blue cube. We have it in here. Yeah, that thing sucks, but it's awesome But you don't have to have it on you can turn it off. It's still cold still cold as fuck But if you really want to experience the stuff the real, crank that bitch up and it's a raging river. Yeah, it pushes the thermal layer away from you. Yeah, and it's also really well built.

It's an awesome machine. I can't recommend it enough. Blue cubes are the shit. I also, at my home, I have a Morosco Forge, which is amazing too. I've been in one of those, yeah. It's great. It's cold as shit. The whole thing is just suffering. The whole thing is getting your body to adapt to this insane environment, making more brown fat, elevating your cold shock proteins, and also ramping up your dopamine in a significant manner. When you get out of there, your dopamine ramps up for 200%. And it's like that for hours.

And it's like that for hours. Yeah, I remember I can't remember like well I used to ice pass, you know back way in the day and I would sit in there for like 30 minutes I mean it wasn't as cold as it was but I'd get out and I'd be euphoric I mean literally be like euphoria was like I'd shiver but I'd be like it was like I was happy for like That's what it is. I have a group of comedians that I'm running on like a little comedy and like comedy training bootcamp group of comedians that I'm running on like a little comedy and like comedy training boot camp but get my carnivore too I am trying yes they're all they're gonna do it in January okay I'm working them up to it now world carnivore month which is when I first did it yep so I've got them now where they're cold plunging uh after workouts and eventually like within the next couple weeks we're gonna start with the cold plunge, which is that's next level.

That's when it gets hard. Then I'm saying, look, we go through. I start them off. Every workout starts out with 100 bodyweight squats, 100 pushups. And I tell them, if you can only do five, do five. You don't have to do 100. I'm doing sets of 20. If you want to do sets of five, do five.

The most important thing is we want to build a base. So if you get to like five and you're struggling, stop right there. I i'm not trying to kill anybody i'm just trying to give you guys a base so you have a good time so we're all laughing we're having a lot of fun i'm running through these workouts so we're doing it three four days a week and then we get in the cold plunge we get in the sauna first which is the way i've been doing it with them so they get to the point where they're actually kind of looking forward to the cold because i don't fuck around with the sauna i get that bitch up to 185 degrees we sit in there for 20 minutes if anybody complains i throw water on the rocks like come on man this is this is the whole i know you can do this i know you don't want to do this but the whole idea is

when it's done you're going to feel better because you did a thing that you didn't think you could do or you think you had to quit you don't have to quit because sometimes they'll be in there like, I got to get out. Like, no, you don't. You have four more minutes. You can do anything for four minutes almost, but just fucking concentrate, concentrate and relax and just deal with it. Count to 10 and then count to 10 again and then keep doing that. And eventually it'll be four minutes. Just do it. And then afterwards I get them in the cold. And when I get them in the cold and when I get them in the cold they get out They're like oh my god. I feel amazing. I go don't you feel great so By doing it this way where I'm just introducing them First to bodyweight exercises then to very light kettlebells

You know like 12 pounds swings cleans presses some windmills And then I've now got them doing renegade rows a little bit more difficult some windmills. And then now I've got them doing renegade rows, a little bit more difficult. And then now I've got them doing the rogue glute ham machine. So I've got them doing those sit-ups where you hang low and come all the way up. I'm like, if you only do three, do three. I'm doing sets of 15. You don't have to do what I'm doing. Just do, because I built up to this. We're going to do those. Then we're going to do some back extensions i'm going to strengthen your core we're going to do some reverse squats with the the pulley machine so we're going to do those with 50 of your body weight if you can only do two do two i want you to get up to 10 and we're going to do sets of 10 eventually but we're going to build a

base and so we build this base and now these guys are fucking happy they're confident they're coming to the green room before the show's like dude i feel fucking great like yes because i mean i imagine like i mean you've been a comic for a long time right and that's got to be a love tough lifestyle though in a way because you're out late at night all the time yes drinking smoking partying i mean are these guys because i mean obviously the ufc fighters are a different breed than comics and are you finding that, like in your own personal experience, that being in shape helps you with your craft? I think it helps you with everything in life because it makes your mind function better. People want to think that the mind, the body are two separate things. They're not.

You're an entity. Your existence is all symbiotic. It's all working together. If you eat better, if you rest better, look, if I'm tired, like if for some reason I, you know, I had to travel or this or that or something woke me up and I'm not getting any sleep and I have to do standup and I have four hours sleep. I don't have as much juice. You know, I'll have to drink like a couple of espressos. I have to do some jumping jacks, get my brain fired up. And then at night, I'm significantly more tired that

day. If I sleep eight hours and I eat really good food and I come in there, I have more energy. If you have more energy, you'll be better at everything you do. There's not a thing you can do other than sleep where when you have less energy, you do it better. Nothing else. So if you have more energy, you'll be better at comedy. You'll be better at talking to people. You'll be better at whatever the fuck it is you do. Whether you're an accountant or a fucking songwriter, you'll be better at it if you have more energy. It's not like mutually exclusive that you have to be a drunk fatso in order to be a funny comedian. It's just not true.

A lot of drunk fatso's are funny comedians because they're wild impulsive people That's fun to watch but they can still be all those things and be healthy Yeah, I mean I I think you know, I am NOT not a comic I do some stupid skips that were kind of funny, but it takes a lot of creativity intelligence to be funny I mean, I mean you would know that I mean, it's like it's something that a lot of comics are very very intelligent people I mean, you would know that. I mean, it's like something that a lot of comics are very, very intelligent people. I mean, I would, you know. Yes. There's a lot of my friends are surprisingly funny.

A lot of them are uneducated, but they're also very smart. They're very smart. They're very, what you call it, street smart or wise. They get things. They understand people. They're armchair psychologists. They understand what makes people think and behave.

Like Patrice O'Neill is one of the greatest comics of all time. He was diabetic and he was a big overweight guy, but he was brilliant. And he had an understanding of human psychology that came from life experience and whatever shit he went through when he was younger that he brought to the stage. And he would have been better if he was healthy which is crazy because he was so good already so so these guys that are training with you are they all they all live in austin or local comics and so yes so they're they you've got like a new like a club or something like that right the comedy mothership yeah that's in that's downtown yeah so these guys

are all guys that i work with all the time so if i'm doing shows there tuesday wednesday and thursday i'm doing shows with these guys so there's like a really cool camaraderie and brotherhood with all these guys and we all work out together. And you know, it's like, I don't like that term team building because I don't think about it as like a corporate environment, but there's something to that. Like we're all brothers and we get together and we have fun together and they're learning. They're learning like, oh my God, this actually makes me feel better. And I was never, they were never involved in anything like this before. They never had like organized workouts on a regular basis. But the fact that they're all going through it together as beginners and that they're getting guided by someone like

me who loves them and who is already fit and they could see the benefits. And I'm telling them, dude, keep going. You will have a fucking six pack before you know it. You will be better. You will feel healthier. Change your diet. Change what you do. Change how you live your life.

Make sure you get your sleep in. Start taking vitamins. Just start, listen, athletic greens is the fucking easiest thing to take. Take a scoop, put it in water, spin it up. You got vitamins. Dude, give your fucking water, spin it up. You got vitamins. Give your fucking body the nutrients it deserves. Do these things and you will feel better. Yeah, I mean, is there ever like, I mean, there's some like I can remember through the years,

like John Belushi, John Candy, these giant, you know, they all died early, right? Yeah. Drugs or whatever, probably the obesity didn't help them. But is there a danger of like once you become that role, like you're the heavy guy you got to stay that way to get the jobs i mean like maybe in hollywood yeah in hollywood if you want to be a big fat guy in movies yeah my advice sucks you're gonna lose your job but you don't have to be the big fat guy what's the guy that he's like oh i guess seth or something like that he's like a redheaded kid. He was- Seth Rogen? No, not Seth Rogen.

There's another. No, I can't remember the guy's name. Anyway, he was a big chubby kid and he lost a lot of weight. And I can't remember what his name was. But he was in like Superbad or something like that. Oh, yeah. Jonah Hill. Yeah, yeah, him.

So he's like leaned out a lot. Yeah. But he still has a career, I guess. Of course he does. He's talented. But also those movies that he used to be in, they don't fucking make those anymore. Because the woke PC culture just fucking threw water on that fire. I mean, they used to make movies like Tropic Thunder.

If you made a movie like Tropic Thunder today, everyone's going to jail. Meanwhile, it's one of the greatest comedies of all time. Or Superbad. You couldn't make Superbad today. Jesus Christ, the backlash would be insane. Yeah, it's crazy how, like, I don't know. I mean, I guess Generation X is the toughest generation. You know, it's kind of like, you know.

Yeah, but there's a lot of, like, really funny guys. Like, Andrew Schultz is a perfect example. One of the best comics alive. He's fit. He's thin. He's smart. He doesn't party. And he's still hilarious.

You don't have to be dying to be a good comic. It's not necessary. Yeah, I saw there's a comedian. His name's Brent Pella. Do you know who he is? Have you ever seen him? He does a lot of these carnivore diet things and a, do you know a place called Hop Dottie? Have you heard of that place?

It's a burger place. Hamburger place. And my friend is one of the executives over there. And they had, they had like Impulse Burger and Beyond Meat on their menu for a while. And he was like pissed off about it because he's kind of carnivore leaning. And they kept trying to get rid of it, get rid of it. And I think one of them paid like a million dollars to keep it on the menu. It was like, it was like ridiculous.

They were just, you know, obviously forcing this on the population. And Beyond Meat is just like tank. Nobody wants that stuff. Isn't it crazy how that happened? The stock went from like 250, like three years ago now it's like five bucks. It's like, you know. Not only that, they're fucking getting sued. Like people that are, that were shareholders are suing.

Oh, for, for, yeah. And it's, it's like, so Hopdoddy made a video like we're getting rid of Beyond Meat and they threw it in the garbage and it has comic print. I'm making this funny little, it's like a three minute funny video. And Beyond Meat actually sent them

a cease and desist, stop making fun of us. How can you say that? I don't know, I guess they did. They said, don't make fun of us anymore. How can you send a cease and desist for making fun of something?

That's what they did. It was just funny. Yeah, I don't think you have to obey that. Well for making fun of something? That's what they did. It was just funny. Yeah, I don't think you have to obey that. Well, I don't know. It's part of culture. You can make fun of anything in culture. It's in America. You see what they're doing in, what is it, Ireland?

Ireland, they're trying to pass some law where if you have memes on your possession, so if you have something in your possession that could be used to marginalize or incite violence, which is very open-ended, like something funny could be used to incite violence in their ridiculous ideology, that you could be arrested for that. Yeah. Wasn't there a guy that was sentenced to jail for having a meme about Hillary Clinton recently? No, he created a parody meme about Hillary Clinton. And he went to jail for it, though. Something happened. It's like crazy.

I don't know if he went to jail or if he was convicted of something. I don't know what the sentence was. But, yeah, and this was because they were – what were they saying that was like – Jamie will find it. But it's something egregious because it was a very subtle parody where you could say that this was just not true. These are falsehoods. So here it is. Man who spread misinformation on Trump's behalf sentenced to seven months. The man Douglas Mackey, spread internet memes

meant to fool people into not voting for Hillary Clinton in 2016. So what were the memes? Let's find out what the memes were. Okay, but let's find out what the thing. Hold on, scroll up a little bit. Evidence showed that the participants discuss generating interest in email stolen from the Clinton campaign by Russia, portraying Ms. Clinton as a warmonger and promoting the claim

that she had cheated during the primaries to get supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders to hate not just Hillary, but the Democratic Party itself. Mr. Mackey published, pushed the hashtag write in Bernie, hashtag write in Bernie, evidence showed and stated that women and naturalized citizens should not be allowed to vote. He also wrote that black people were unintelligent and gullible and suggested spreading a hashtag, hashtag never vote in black social media spaces. Yeah, but here's the thing. Like, this was all parody. I'm 90% sure.

Let's find out what he actually made. But I remember looking at the things that he made and going, wow, that was, if you didn't know any better. Well, I mean, you think like today with the AI stuff. I mean, I know you've had like fake AI Joe Rogans,'s oh there's a shitload there's gonna be stuff that are just like they're gonna take something and make you say something that you never would have said and you they're already doing that they're already selling i don't know what to do i don't know what i can do they're i'm selling big dick pills and i'm selling all kinds of stuff online rappers

are using me to promote themselves like i'm talking about this is the hottest rapper alive, and it's an AI-generated voice. If you can't do anything against that, I don't know what you can do. What can anyone do? Well, I guess you could ask Instagram to take it down, but Instagram has some wild shit up in the algorithm now. I see murders every day now.

Tom Segura and I have this thing where every day we send each other the worst shit that we can find and because of that my algorithm is now conditioned to show me the worst things oh my god like every day it's people getting pulverized yeah but they're banning like I saw Chad Mendes you know Chad Mendes the UFC yes they took down his hunting photos yes you can't put up hunting photos yeah you're showing murders and all this other crap on there It's well, I think they're doing it from these like really sketchy accounts and they just make thousands of these accounts

Put that up there. It says Twitter user convicted for false voting information Not Hillary Clinton memes fact-check. Okay, but this is like you know, who are the fact checkers? Oh, yes a today. It's just fucking Mainstream go back to that, please. Oh Who are the fact checkers on USA Today? It's just fucking mainstream. Go back to that, please. Oh, sorry. The pop-up ad popped up. So scroll down. And what is it saying?

Instagram post directly. Scroll back up so I can read that. Includes a screenshot of post on X, formerly Twitter, that claims social media user is being imprisoned for political memes. Breaking Twitter user Douglas Mackey sentenced to seven months in prison for being found guilty of election interference for making memes. Disparaging Hillary Clinton reads the post, which links to a post-millennial story making the same claim. It received more than 70,000 likes in two days. Another version of the post shared on X by right-wing commentator Dinesh D'Souza received nearly 1,300 shares. Let's scroll back down. Okay. R rating false. Making memes

disparaging political figures is not illegal. Mackey was sentenced for posting memes that encourage Clinton supporters to vote via text message, which is not a valid way to vote. Let's see if we can find the memes. I mean, it has a link for it, but... Okay, but no, no, that's a direct link to something that said he was sentenced to prison for political commentary. It generally would have the meme in these posts, though, so... Yeah, does it?

I don't, I mean, we had to check. Let's see. You were going to Gulag? No, that's them doing that. That's different. Let's see if we can find what his memes were that he made. Douglas Mackey memes. There they go.

Okay. And that's not really a meme, though, either. Kind of is. Save time, avoid the line, vote from home. Text Hillary to 59925, and we'll make history together this November 8th. Okay that's borderline right because that is kind of misinformation. I don't think the guy should go to jail for it but like click on that one in the upper right hand corner. Yeah that one. It says vote for her vote from home post Hillary using hashtag presidential election. Yeah. This is definitely not true. There's nothing funny about that.

Right. Right. That is, yeah, that's different. Avoid the line, vote from home, text Hillary. Yeah. Okay. So I wonder how many people got fooled by that. A lot. Yeah, I said over five, like somewhere in the range of 5,000 people texted one of those numbers or something like that. I'm sure. I'm sure they did. Because if you saw that and you go, oh, all I have to do is this, and I don't have to vote in person. Yeah, if you're not aware, I could see how that could get you. So that's, yeah, that's a little different than a meme. I mean, it's kind of a meme, but it really is.

I mean, that kind of falls under misinformation. I don't think the guy should go to jail for it, but you probably shouldn't be allowed to... Maybe lose your account or something like that. Yeah. Because I've been, you know, I got banned. I remember I got banned from Twitter for like a year. And for what?

I don't know. I mean, they said there was like a copyrighted music, like music playing in the background on one of my videos. Right, that's what it was. And I was like, ban me for life? What did I, you know, it's like there's people out here putting you know promoting murder and death and they're on yeah and i'm like the taliban's on there right exactly it's kind of it's not that it was that you were promoting this alt-right lifestyle of eating meat only well and exercise and exercise this is very problematic sean it is it is we can't have people eating

meat and being healthy and working out. That's fucked up. I don't know why you did it, and I hope you've changed your ways. Well, I'm working on that. Like I said, we talked about that debate with the wacko vegan. Oh my God, that was my favorite one you've ever done. I don't know when this took place, but I just discovered it. No, it was recently. It was like two weeks ago.

I just discovered it a couple of days ago. But you are debating this guy, and you are debating this guy and You by the way you played this brilliantly well you just had this like little smile on your face and you let him talk and This guy was saying that you've never met a vegan like me Not only do I not think that you should eat me because you were talking about the animal kingdom What about the animal kingdom like in the world? He was like, oh, I don't think the animal kingdom should exist.

I think we should replace it with human infrastructure. He was saying that he thinks that all animal prey, predators and prey, that's all problematic, and we shouldn't have any of that. So he's for eliminating all animal life. Yeah, it's kind of bizarre. I was just like, I don't even have to say anything. It's not even a debate. All I got to do is just let you talk for like.

By the way, where does this motherfucker think fertilizer comes from? How are you going to grow your vegetables? What are you going to do? He doesn't care about that. He said, basically, I don't care if you kill billions of creatures to grow avocados. It doesn't matter to me. That's fine. He went as far as saying, even if they were humans you were slaughtering to produce crops that I ate, it's fine.

But if you feed it for a cow and then kill the cow, that's a rights violation. That's a problem. And then he was like, he said he won the debate because I said I probably wouldn't eat a Homo erectus. You know, like he said, well, if we could bring back something that's close to Homo sapien but not exactly. You're trying to get me to say it's okay to eat humans, but that's the only reason. That's how he won the debate? Well, that's how he claims he won the debate. If you say I don't think you should eat orangutans.

Right, right, right. Then he won. Then he won. That was the whole thing. It was just bizarre. It was funny. I mean, it was hilarious. Well, he's in a cult.

Whether he realizes it or not, he's in a cult, you know, whether he realizes it or not He's in a cult and this cult is not it's it's not based on any objective assessment of the reality of biological life on Earth It's just not it's like to say that you think all animal life should die Well, are you including insects because if you include insects then you're including bees then you're there's no pollination Yeah, you know, like what are you saying? Well, I mean we including bees, then there's no pollination. What are you saying? Well, I mean, our species, if there were no animals, we would all be dead too. Right. Everything would be gone. So it's almost like, well, you don't really seem like you fit too well on this planet, dude.

Well, I think that's a deeply unhappy person that's probably very depressed. And also a contrarian to the point of complete illogical thinking. Like the idea that you would think that all predator and prey animals that exist on Earth, including Africa, in the wild, like areas where there are no human beings ever, and these animals all coexisted in this very balanced food chain where you have predators and prey and the predators keep the prey animals in check and that there's this like balance in terms of population. The fact that you think that human beings should somehow or another stop that and replace it with human infrastructure. That's basically what he's saying, right?

Yeah, pave it all over with a parking lot and grow food in a factory. See if you can find that guy. It's hilarious. Because I don't think he understands, like, plants literally survive on biological material that is being broken down by the natural process and converted into fertilizer. There's this symbiotic relationship.

They breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen. We breathe in oxygen, we breathe out carbon dioxide. The more carbon dioxide, which is a real problem with the whole climate crisis things, the Earth's literally never been greener in observable history. Right now, with the whole climate crisis things, the Earth's literally never been greener in observable history. Right now, with the higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, you literally have a greening of the Earth. The whole thing is super complicated. And to try to boil it down into some very easy-to-follow way

because it supports your ideology is what most people are doing. Yeah, James, if you go to my Instagram, like a couple back, like, uh, there was, I think it's like, I've, I take on the final vegan boss or something like that. It was like, did you put those seed oil bottles behind? No, he did. That was his. That's cause he, he's a big promoter.

And he's, he thinks, you know, there, there's a whole argument about, you know, you should be drinking gallons of canola oil and it makes you healthy. So he did this. Give me some volume and refresh this so i could hear what this guy says because it's it's really funny world into non-existence right like i think the wild i think the natural world is actually morally problematic and i advocate for its non-existence can you expand upon that what does that mean you advocate for getting rid of the natural world and we live in a... Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The natural world is filled with death and destruction, things I find morally problematic. What would you replace that with?

Human infrastructure. Human infrastructure. And you're saying we would do a better job as humans. Yeah, I would even go so far as I think the end goal should be to ditch this ball because it's a liability in and of itself. But a lot of people might find that problematic. It's fine. People are free to think that I have a weird position. Just on that, Sean, like, do you see where he's coming from there? I haven't given this. I can I can see his argument. I would disagree with that pretty.

I don't think you know that if you make human infrastructure over where there is usually a huge amount of suffering and death and rights violations, most likely this year. So I guess if we're calling a rights violation a lion eating a zebra, would that fall under your definition of a rights violation? On my definition, yeah. Okay, interesting. So who's the other guy? Obviously that is a – I'll tell you this. So the other guy, he's a vegan activist. His name is James Aspey.

And he used to be like a drug addict and I was vegan. And he was like he made this like rap video saying I wouldn't I was afraid of him and wouldn't debate him. And I was like, OK, whatever. So he wanted but he wanted a partner to debate with me. And I said, I don't go bring somebody on. And this this is the other guy he picked as his backup as his like he's probably regretting he brought this guy on now because he's like such a wacko. Well, the guy that you're, the other guy, not the final vegan boss, but the other guy is like, don't you see his point? Exactly. Rights violations.

Yeah, exactly. Rights violations. So a mountain lion eating a mule deer is a rights violation? Well, then I asked him, I asked him, because then I go on to ask him, I said, well,

what about the lion that needs to eat? Doesn't he have any rights? He goes, oh, I don't care about them. I'm like, Oh God. So let's eat them. Let's eat the lions. Let's only eat predators. No, that's a rights violation to right violation to, yeah, they're, they're, they're bizarre. It's kind of, well, it's just a complete, it's convenient thinking. It's not based on facts. And if you mean it's one of the things that's been discussed ad nauseum, but Ted Nugent covered it. That if you want to kill the most things, eat a vegan diet. If you're thinking – like, you made this argument that one cow – like, one cow is one life. And it's probably better to eat cows because if you eat a cow, that's an enormous animal.

And you could eat that cow that's an enormous animal and you could eat that cow for like six months yeah how long how long does an elk last you joe months yeah months yeah it's interesting i was just hundreds of pounds yeah i was just in oregon and that's the end of the lewis and clark trail right and you read back there if you ever read like the history of the lewis and clark exposition those guys were eating up to nine pounds of meat a day when they had a lot of game they would had 31 dudes, and they would go through like every day they'd go through four deer or an elk and a deer or a buffalo. They ate a lot of bear. Bear and stuff like that.

Have you ever eaten bear? Yeah. How's it taste? I got some here. You got some? I'd like to try it. It'd be awesome. I'll give you some.

Awesome. Yeah. Cam Haynes shot a bear, and he turned it into pepperoni sticks. What kind of bear was it? Black bear. Black bear. Yeah. But you can eat grizzly bears too.

The problem with bears is, the real problem in society is that people view them as what my friend Steve Rinella likes to call charismatic megafauna. Yeah. Because we think of it as like yogi bear and only you can prevent forest fires

and teddy bears and all that shit. Not teddy bears. But yeah, they're fucking giant predators. But when you eat grizzlies and you eat particularly brown bear that are coastal, which are the really large ones, they're eating a lot of fish. And they might taste like shit. Whereas if you get a black bear that is munching on blueberries, they're sensational. Steve Rinell says it's some of the best meat he's ever eaten in his life. And when there's a video of him, see if you could find

Steve Rinella blueberry bear. So they specifically target these fall bears that are eating blueberries. And when he opens it up, he says they smell like blueberries. Their fat is purple. And he said the meat is delicious. So this is an interesting thing because... So this is like you see... Oh, yeah, watch this. So that's a... So this is him, right, what he's doing now.

This is Steve after he's shot the animal, and these are pieces of meat that he's quartered up. And so he's taking this fat, and this fat has a blue... See how it has like a blue hue to it? That's from the berry. Give me some volume. So he's going to start. He's up in Alaska or something like that, isn't he?

Well, he lives in Montana, but he has a fish shack in Alaska. And I believe he was hunting them in Alaska. Because that's where, you know, he'll specifically target them where they're eating blueberries. Getting into the third line here, but I just want some red meat. There's some good stuff. And so what he's doing now is he's going to use a jet boil. It's right on the hip. Yeah, and he's going to cook the meat in the fat.

So that fat, if you look at it, it's got like a blue hue to it, like a reddish blue hue to it from blueberries. So he cooks that down, gets the oil, gets it fat, and then he dunks. Another way you can do this, you can actually put. So he gets a bunch of hot, melted fat, and then he cooks. It's like confit. Yeah.

Like a confit duck, yes. You have to make sure you cook it to 150-plus degrees to avoid trichinosis. I forget what the number is. That fat will wind up sitting on top of the water. But for deep frying meat, it's better to have pure oil. But if you just wanted oil out to drink, just if you needed like, you know, a quick energy charge, you can do it that way a lot faster than rendering it like this.

My brother one time I watched, he like rendered a mug full of bear fat and just drank it like coffee. That's how good that stuff is. And hunters like Daniel Boone, I mean, that guy would shoot bears just for oil. He could sell the stuff. It was a marketable commodity. You can continue to cook these fat pieces down, down, down, and they'll just wind up being crispy little treats like little pork.

How hard is it to get a bear tag? It's not that hard, depending on where you go. They're overpopulated in a lot of areas. Really? Okay. You want to hear something crazy? What state would you think has the largest population of bears per capita? Per capita? Yeah.

Tell you guys. Per capita, Wyoming. New Jersey. New Jersey? New Jersey has a real bear problem. There's a lot of people that live in New Jersey. I know.

A kid a few years back who was going to Rutgers got killed by a bear out there. Wow. Black bears? Black bear, yeah. Black bears are more likely for some

reason to kill people for food. Whereas brown bears and grizzly bears, generally they kill people because they get startled or it's a mama and her cubs. I had a black bear walk through my backyard. It was like, got it on video. It was like up in Washington. Pretty cool. Yeah, it was pretty good. My spouse was taking a bath. She heard the dogs bark and she looks out, there's a freaking bear walking. I was out of town. She's like, Oh my God, there's a bear. But the interesting thing, you know, it's about the blue, you said about the blue stuff in the fat. So, and I, Jamie, I've got a paper, I think it's from Stefan Van Vliet about phytonutrients in meat. So we talk about phytonutrients, right? You gotta, you gotta get all your plants, get your phytonutrients.

Meat actually contains thousands of phytonutrients. So when those animals graze, they actually absorb that phytonutrients and So when those animals graze, they actually absorb that phytonutrient, and it goes into their fat, into their tissue. And so you actually get it in almost as much or even more than you can get in plants because we ignore that. But meat, like Stephan Van Vliet, who was a researcher initially out of Duke, he's not like Utah State, showed that meat has something like 50,000 unique compounds. It's not just amino acids and a little bit of vitamins and minerals.

It's 50,000 unique compounds, and many of them are phytonutrients. So it's pretty amazing. Because a bear can eat a hell of a lot more than I can. It is. Health-promoting phytonutrients are higher in grass-fed meat and milk. But you don't necessarily gravitate towards grass-fed. I do both. It's one of those things.

I don't know what your opinion is on taste. I mean, I know you like a lot, a lot, a lot of elk. And so I, you know, I get, it's kind of funny because I become like the meathead guy, right? Like everybody, I get a lot of ranchers to send me stuff. They're like, here, have some free meat. I'm like, hell yeah, I'll eat that stuff. And I get, you know, I get a little bit of everything. I get some really crazy, like there's a, well, one in Colorado,

Colorado Craft Beef, which Jocko has invested in. They're part of that partnership. They got really good meat. But it's pasture-raised, and then they finish it out themselves, and they have their own facility. But there's like one in Montana. They finish their cows out on sprouts, which is kind of interesting. And sprouts can grow like you don't even need light.

All you need is water. And they grow very massively. And so this guy said in a building that's like 40 by 60, he can grow enough sprouts to finish out 400 head of cattle, which takes up almost no room. It's like amazing. So it's called McCafferty Ranch Beef up in Montana. And they're trying to, you know, trying to spread this because you think about we're talking about how do we sustainably feed people more meat? Because I think that's a real issue. And that's, you know, one of those things that's out there. So it's kind of because I think, you know, again, I don't think everybody needs to

be on carnival, but I do think we should probably eat less junk food, more meat. I mean, I think that would be a clear win for society in general. And it's like, well, how do you do that? I mean, we used to have, you know, this goes back to the beef checkoff. I mean, their job is to promote beef. But since 1977, our beef consumption in the U.S. is down like 30, 40 percent. And yet diseases are going up. So it's like the exact opposite direction. And literally like half a million ranchers have gone out of business since the 70s. I mean, it's like, you know, we talk about 3,000 ranchers or 3,000 farms closing in the Netherlands. Half a million have gone out of business here in the U.S., which is crazy. So I'm always trying to support your local rancher, you know, whatever your preference is.

But, you know, get these guys out there because, I don't know, I mean, these guys are good. I mean, it's like everybody else. I mean, ranchers are hardworking people. I think they're one of the backbones of this country. I mean, you know, you get people that feed you. I mean, what it was, because it used to be back in, you know, 200 years ago, everybody had produced their own food. Now you got like 2% of the population feeding all the rest of us. And I mean, you know, I mean, I had Walt Harris, uh, Will Harris, Will Harris, Will Harrison is, uh, sorry, Will and his daughter,

uh, Jenny on recently. And they explained, and I've had Will on twice, and he explained his situation where he developed this regenerative farm from what used to be an industrialized farm and how difficult it was. I'm reading his book right now. It's amazing. It's amazing. I've interviewed Will before, too. And I've interviewed all these regenerative guys, and I'm totally for that. I think it's wonderful. It's great.

It improves the ecosystem. It's like something we need more of. all these regenerative guys and i'm totally for that i think it's wonderful it's great it improves the ecosystem it's like something we need more of it's just you know incentivizing the guys because a lot of the guys are on like more kind of a a commodity beef which he likes to call it he doesn't like it anymore but a lot of those guys like i just i'm worried i'm gonna go out of business if i try this because maybe they're maybe they're up in north dakota or it's snows all the time and right where am i going to get the alfalfa and the hay to feed the stuff? And it's just, it's kind of a, you know. Well, you have to do what you have to do.

He's lucky he's in Georgia. Well, he's in a good place. He admits I've got perfect land for this and not everybody has that. But he's also recreating nature in a contained environment, which is really what we should all be striving for. environment, which is really what we should all be striving for. What we want is these animals to exist in a way that's ethical, humane, and that they exist in a way that they have existed for hundreds of thousands of years. And that's how they're healthy. And if you eat that, you will be healthier. There's no pesticides, herbicides, no bullshit involved. Well, that's the other thing, because you've heard of glyphosate. They spray it on everything.

They've been spraying it on everything since, I i don't know the 1980s or something like that now it's showing up in your urine yeah and it's most of it accumulates in like grains and legumes and stuff like that's where it's most densely found so if you want to avoid that stuff don't eat that stuff eat you know more of a meat base because because mammals basically you know break it down so it doesn't really show up in their meat and their milk very much. It's very limited. But it's like these guys that are de-regenerative, they don't eat any herbicides.

They don't eat any pesticides. So they get rid of all that stuff. Saves them money in the long run. But it's like they said, you've got to go through the threat of going out of business for five years or six years before you can make it. Well, it took him like 20 years to convert that farm, which is an amazing task that he achieved. But because of that, he's like

a shining light to all these people. I mean, we should subsidize that stuff is what we should do instead of subsidizing all these wheat and grain and corn commodities, which go into potato chips and garbage. Yeah. Well, that's what's crazy about, you know, we demonize Russia, but Putin banned GMO foods. Well, do you see what they did in Italy? Maloney said no lab-grown meat, because that's another thing, you know, that's because, you know, the plant, like people have caught on to the Beyond Burgers

and Impossible Meat. It's just all ultra-processed garbage, and the people are speaking with their wallet, which is, when I look at, you know, when I look at all the corporate sort of malfeasance and the corporate influence, you know, the corporations own the politicians. You got to know that. I mean, they're paying the politicians in one way or the other. And it's like, what can I do as a lone individual? And it's like, all you can do really is vote with

your pocketbook. And just every time you go to the store and you buy that bullshit, that crappy food, you're putting more money in their pockets. And they have more power over you. And so I'm just like you got to turn it around. Yeah, in a perfect world, they would invest all their money into regenerative farming. And they would change – if people change their diet and they realize, look, the only thing people are buying is grass fed meat and organic vegetables, all from regenerative organic farms. If that really became something that was sustainable, they would try to pursue that. Yeah, no, I think the market will dictate where things go. And it's just convincing the market that, hey, look, you know, if you want to continue to be sad and

depressed and miserable, keep doing what you're doing. But you've got to change it. You've got to make a big change. And that's what, you know, I mean, we'd be told not to do it. Just like that USDA study. Hey, 91% processed food diet. That's a, okay, keep eating this way. So crazy.

It is crazy. That's why what makes that sort of propaganda so insidious. It's like you're literally holding back people from gaining health and gaining control of their health. And the evidence is clear in terms of if you just look at what people used to look like and what they look like now, something's wrong. Something's really wrong. And all that comes from diet. Sedentary lifestyle and diet. Well, that's, but I mean, I will say this and because you, I mean, I'm sure you agree that what distinguishes healthy people that age in a very healthy matter. I mean, diet is important and I'm a huge proponent of diet, but physical activity and exercise is such a huge, I mean,

I don't care what diet you are, you need to be taking care of your health. And I think, you know, cause I hear, cause I hear it all the time. Oh, you're in your fifties. You need to slow down. You need to, you down. You need not be doing that stuff because you're going to get hurt and it's time to get down. But I mean, I've heard that since I've been 20 or 30. Oh, you're 30.

You got to slow down. Yeah. I think once you lose capacity, like, you know, if you say like my 100% was here and then you say, I'm not going to do 100% anymore. I'm just going to do 90%.

Well, that 90% is now your 100%. Yeah. And then you keep doing it and all of a sudden it's like, you know, walking down the street is now a chore, you know? Right. And you see so sudden, it's like walking down the street is now a chore. And you see so many people. It's like,

I had a guy talk to me about, I thought it was a good, this guy named Ted Naiman. He's a doctor that I interviewed one time. He said, what happens is over life, you have this sort of spectrum of things you can do.

This is me laying in bed and this is me doing backflips, right? And then it gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And eventually you're like, all I can do is walk around the house, and then all I can do is lay in bed, and then you're dead. So you need to keep this as broad as possible. And that's why I say when people say, you need to slow down, I'm like, bullshit, man.

You've got to train smart and you don't get hurt. But you need to push yourself. Well, also, if anybody watches your workouts, clearly you don't need to slow down because you're doing some pretty extraordinary stuff, you're deep into your fifties. Yeah. It's like the same thing, right? Yeah.

And we were kids. We were told that when you get into your fifties, it's over. You know, it's, have you ever seen the, those images where they show the Archie Bunker and Judith Bunker? When they're like, and they're like, they're like 38. I'm like, shit, they look like. Fred Sanford was like 48 when he was on Sanford and Sons. It's crazy. Yeah. Big belly, gray hair. I can't believe that stuff. They weren like 38. I'm like, shit, they look like- Fred Sanford was like 48 when he was on Sanford and Sons. It's crazy.

Yeah, big belly, gray hair. I can't believe that stuff. They weren't healthy. They didn't take care of themselves. That's amazing. They didn't work out. But if you look at some people today like yourself, and it's like, there's a whole new standard.

Well, you look at guys like Stallone and Schwartz, I heard they're in their mid-70s now, and they're still like- I mean, granted, they're taking stuff, but I mean, at the same point, we've never had a time in human history where we've experienced people that are pushing it that way and still training hard into the late years. And I've seen, you know, I've seen people like in their nineties, I saw a guy who's 91 years old. He's deadlifting 405

for a triple at 90. And he only weighs like 148. That's incredible. It's like, where did this guy come from? So it's like, what is going to be possible? And, you know, like I said, I don't know. I always, the longevity stuff, I was like, I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody really, really knows. I think you're just speculating. And my thing is like, let's get healthy today. Let's stop being sick and then just keep doing that.

And then if you live extra long, great. But, you know, because a lot of people say, well, if you eat a carnivore diet, you're going to have a heart attack at 60. I'm like, I don't know that that's true. I mean, maybe I will, but I don't think that's, I don't think we have enough data to support that. What I can say is like, if you're sick, you're diabetic, you're fat, you're high blood pressure, I can fix that by diet. Let's just do that. And I think we would just focus on that instead of like protecting people from cancer when they're 90 which is like you don't even know it's just the evidence is so bad on that stuff well what we know what you can do for what you are right now where you are right now that if you change your diet and you eat healthier foods and you exercise you'll feel better you'll be better

that's a fact whether or not you're looking at, like, look, clearly these people that are eating off the Twinkie tree, they're not worried about being 150 years old either. Like, this is nonsense, and that's a bullshit argument. Like, you're going to get a heart attack. You're going to die young. And what? Your sedentary lifestyle, eating fucking Oreos, you're going to be okay? I mean, there's some people that say we've only got a limited number of heartbeats, and

I don't want to. You've heard that argument? I've heard that. I'm just like, what? You gotta be crazy. But that's based on who and what, like based on what says, says who that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. Do we have a number of calf contractions that you're allowed to have? Your heart is a muscle. Like who says if your heart is healthier because your whole body is healthier and you whole body is healthier you're more metabolically healthy i would imagine that everything's healthier your brain you're like people that are fit and older their brains work better everything works better it's just good

let me hey jamie there's a picture of a gal with blonde hair do you see that one i just want to i just want to show this gal because it's quite interesting because people are asking where's the people that have been doing carnivore for a while? So there's a rancher. Her name is Maggie. I can't remember. Maybe Maggie Watterson. She's up in Alberta, Canada.

She's been doing supposedly a carnivore diet since she's like 15. She's now 82. And if you can find a picture, she just looks like that's her. She's 82. That's insane. And she's busting her ass working on a ranch every day. She's learning Spanish because she's getting tired of how the Canadian government is screwing her ranchers. She wants to move down to Bolivia and start a new ranch in Bolivia.

She's 82, learning Spanish. She's starting a new ranch in Bolivia at 82. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. That's a current picture. And a friend of mine went to go visit her and looked at her birth certificate and her driver's license and verified. And that's literally what she looks like at 82. So it's like, it's pretty cool.

Well, that's 82 years of no bullshit in your body and being physically active yeah it's amazing it can do that for you so we'll see what happens you know like i said if the vegans are right where you and i are dropping dead of a heart attack in six months and they're gonna drop dead too listen well that's that's the funny thing so i had a you know talking about debating the vegans i well i used to not do it because it's such a waste i find it was a waste of time but now i'm kind of humoring it just because i don't know i guess i'm bored but well listen if you can get a result like the guy with the canola oil behind him that's amazing entertainment it was i thought it was it

didn't i didn't learn anything except how crazy these people are but i had a guy that i was like you know he's saying well you know you're going to get cancer heart disease and i said hey well what what do you think vegans are dying of right what do you what do you think they die of and he goes well i don't know, skiing accidents. And I was like, that's bullshit, man. They're all dying of skiing. So if they didn't ski, they'd live forever? Right, right.

So I looked it up, and I looked up studies that actually had endpoints of death on vegans, and number one cause of death is heart disease and cancer. It's like, you guys have the same thing as everybody else. So all you got to do all those years of suffering and farting and Pretending you know virtues for what you died drop dead anyway, but another part of the problem is they've become attached to an ideology That's very difficult for the new escape and when they do try to escape that ideology they get attacked. Oh, it's amazing by their people Oh my god. There's this one vegan influencer who ate a piece of salmon

Yeah, and just felt amazing I believe so. Okay, and then they started fucking attacking her and she was crying, you know but Immediately started feeling better because she's giving her body what she needs How many of these people are suffering and how many like if you think of the vitriol that comes from the vegan community? It's so much anger and so much hate and just horrible things they say about people. How much of that is based on like hurt people hurt people, right? How much of that is based on them being in pain and them being in agony?

Whether it's mental anguish because their brain's not functioning well, their body's not fine. They're overwhelmed with inflammation. Their guts are filled with fiber. Their bodies are fun. They're overwhelmed with inflammation. Their guts are filled with fiber Well, I mean if you imagine like if you literally like believe the ideology really hard you literally hate Almost all of humanity. It's like every 99 out of 100 people you see you like I hate you because you're a murderer, right? Yeah, it's like how do you how do you even live in that society where you literally hate every human being around you? I mean, it's got to be crazy. It's not good for you. Yeah.

That's not good. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, there was a guy in that movie Game Changers, you know, that vegan sports film. And he was going to be in the movie. They had filmed all this stuff. His name was Tim Sheaf. He was like an obstacle course,

like, you know, those obstacle race guys, right? Ninja guy, American ninja type thing. And he was like the vegan prince. Like, they loved him. And then he said he got sick. And he was like, I prince. Like they loved him. And then he said he got sick. And he was like, I couldn't do it anymore. And they like literally threw him out of the movie. Well, there's so many stories of that.

That's what's fascinating. There's so many stories of people who were vegan that had to abandon it, including a lot of celebrities that have come out. And when they do that, they get attacked. They get attacked viciously instead of people going, interesting. That's an interesting point of data. Instead of saying it that way, you're going against an ideology. It's not about facts. It's not about the reality of the science or what we know about nutrition in the human body. It's about being attached to this ideology that makes you superior morally to the people that are around you. Yeah. I always laugh when they say, I'm going to eat this guilt-free

Whatever salad I'm like, no, it's there's a lot of things that die to get you that salad Yeah, just like although that doesn't count or you know, it's kind of kind of crazy But I mean, you know, but they'll point out there are some I mean there literally are people that do Reasonably well on a vegan diet. I mean, yeah, probably see why I always I don't know, you know I mean, I'm sure you know him they talk about Nate Diaz, you know, he's you have to fight again That's what I heard I he's fish and stuff like that. I'm sure you know him. They talk about Nate Diaz. He's a UFC fighter. He's not vegan. That's what I heard. He eats fish and stuff like that. But they always point to Nate Diaz.

They point to him as the guy. No. Like Novak Djokovic, who also is not vegan, but they keep pointing to him. It's just kind of like, because he also eats fish and stuff like that. Well, how about when they put athletes on vegan diets, they get these catastrophic injuries? Yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Cam Newton was the prototype for that.

There's a bunch of those guys. Because you're not getting a lot of the things that you need. You're not getting creatine unless you're supplementing. You're not getting… You're not getting taurine, carnosine, carnitine. I mean, all these things that are either conditionally beneficial or absolutely needed, and you're just not seeing that. So we see that like there was a a depression study stanford university 2018 people with major depressive disorders have low levels of carnitine where do you get carnitine from you pretty much only get it from animal products and so it's just like it's like your

brain turns back on these people say like their brain reset when yeah i got the right food so yeah well listen man uh i'm glad you're out there preaching the gospel, and I'm glad you're still alive all these years later. He's still healthy, and everything's fine. And I think what you're doing is important, because I think people need to understand that we've been kind of hoodwinked in more ways than one, and that you can kind of follow the chain of evidence, and you can figure out how this happened and why this happened. And it's not to preserve your health. And it's, it's not, it's not evidence-based. And when you look at the real evidence that supports vegan diets and, and supports that meat is bad for you, you find out that that's a bunch of chicanery too. There's a lot of bullshit going on there.

And so I'm glad you're out there, Sean. Appreciate it. Appreciate you giving me the platform to talk on this joke. Cause I think, like I said, it's literally, it's helping people. And I think anything that helps people we should be in favor of and like i said i think when because we're seeing people are like saying we need to shut down meat we can't eat it anymore and i think that's a really it's going to have some really bad unintended consequences i agree so tell everybody where they can find your content and your social yeah yeah so uh first thing companyivero.com, R-E-V-E-R-O, if you want to

get your health taken care of, all 50 states. I'm on social media, Instagram, Sean, S-H-A-W-N, Baker, B-A-K-E-R, 1967. On Twitter, I'm at SBakerMD. I've got a YouTube channel, SeanBakerMD, and that's

mostly where I'll be. Alright, brother. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Bye, MD. I've got a YouTube channel. It's Sean Baker, MD. And that's, that's, that's mostly where I'll be. All right, brother. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you.