The Joe Rogan Experience - #208 - "Freeway" Rick Ross

Episode Date: April 24, 2012

Joe sits down with "Freeway" Rick Ross.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! Ladies, ladies and gentlemen, we're going into the rabbit hole today. This is going to be an interesting one. This is going to be a weird one. We have here former aspiring tennis star. Is that true? Really? You were an aspiring tennis star? I was former aspiring tennis star is that true really you were aspiring tennis star was expiring tennis star yeah this is a a man who uh eventually went on to become

probably the most famous drug dealer in the history of los angeles i would say that's as accurate as you can get yeah yeah you're the most i mean you're not the united states yeah if not the united states it's right up there, though. The most famous. Not the biggest, but the most famous, yeah. You got a dude stole your fucking name. No, no, no. Like, three people stole my name for sure. Three people?

Yeah, three people. Three rappers or three different drug dealers? Rappers. Let me see. We know the guy who's probably the most famous out of of them is is william roberts who goes by rick ross uh and he's the rapper that is a former corrections officer correctional officer how hilarious is that and they say he's the best gangster rapper ever better than pock and biggie that's nonsense and then we got my man who's cool who i'm cool with you know and i don't mind him

using parts of my name it's freeway out of philly and we also have it was a freeway rich out of Kansas City that did pretty good in the Midwest there's also some guys right now out of Ohio who go by the name of the freeway boys so that's four different groups that have taken my name and my you know parts of my persona and used it. One of them got very famous though. Very famous right now, yeah. That's fascinating. It's kind of weird too

to take somebody's name and identity and claim it as your own in their background. What's hilarious, I'm going to send Brian a link of where he talked about it. He had come on this dude show and uh the guy asked him about it and uh his his reasoning response was so stupid it was it's amazing the guy is successful is as successful

as he is because he was like you know no no no that happened like 10 years ago i got that nickname i wasn't even about that like the fucking answer is that. That shit doesn't even make... When you know, you know that the dude exists. You know... I know, okay? I'm a white stand-up comedian. I know who Freeway Ricky Ross is. You don't know?

And you're a fucking corrections officer who became a rapper. And you're in that world, and you don't know who Rick Ross is, and you just happen to have his fucking name? Well, you know, the guy... One thing I got to get a guy is he's powerful He doesn't put some moves together now. Yeah that he's getting courts and everybody to do what he wants him to do So whatever he's doing, he's damn good at it

I mean, you know to have the judge to rule in in his favor the other day was like Really really ironic to me I could not believe that somebody could say that if somebody steals something from you, no matter how long it is that it takes you before you catch them and can bring them to the jurisdiction's attention, how could they say that the statute of limitations had ran out? That was just so crazy to me. How do you have a statute of limitations on your name that's what i was saying i mean if somebody steals

something from you i mean and it takes you 10 years to catch them with it and you catch them with it it has all the makings on it that is yours how could you not be made to give it back you know what i'm saying you've said oh well he had his 10 years so now it's he is well what's really crazy is that it's in the most i I mean, rap, the world of rap is supposed to be the most legitimate world ever. Like, you can't get caught with any bullshit. You can't get caught faking anything. If you get caught faking anything, people will turn on you.

You should be like that. You used to be like that. If you bit a lyric. Yeah. If you bit somebody's rhyme or lyric, you were done. Yeah. You know, remember Nelly Vannelly? I mean, those guys last like.

Millie Vannelly? Nelly Vannelly. Yeah, yeah. Well, those guys weren't really rappers, though. You know, but I mean, Rick Ross is like. But it was still during the time of genuine, real. Yes. And now I think that the time has changed so much that it's not about real anymore.

It's about Faking it, you know Well, it's once someone gets popular enough that they bypass the underground Hardcore fans and they make it into the mainstream and then they become a part of pop culture like this every day I'm hustling that just got into the mainstream culture because Because the words in between that, they're not good. He's not a good rapper. It's that every day I'm hustling is just so good. When you hear that in a club, you're like, damn, that's good.

It's just such a good hook that that made him. I mean, that's where it all took off for him. Exactly. And then you have Universal behind you pushing. They start pushing stuff down our kids' throat, you know, and next thing you know, they're taking it. That's fascinating. So he's got your name now.

So now it's legal that he's got your name. Why wouldn't he use his own fucking name? I don't know. Well, Rick Ross is just a name. You know what I mean? It's not like Starchild beyond the grave. You know what I mean? You don't have, like, some crazy fucking name.

You know what I mean? I mean, what's his name? His real name? William Roberts III. What's wrong with Bill Roberts? I don't know. How about Bill Roberts III? I'm ready to wrap it up here.

Rick Ross. I mean, Rick Ross sounds like a guy who sells you real estate. You could be like on one of those billboards that they have on the bus stops. You know,

Rick Ross. A big smile on your face. If my mom wouldn't name me William Roberts, my name would be William Roberts. Yeah, yeah yeah you'd be freeway will roberts exactly what's wrong with that well you know hey man we can't hear you in the background there's no microphone even even that uh uh every day i'm hustling is something that i had i used to say he got that out of a book that uh gary red world called dark alliance and you know i was telling

gary that you know i'm hustling every day so he took that and turned it into a song so i mean you know i don't know what it is with this guy you know he tattooed my name on his hand that's so strange i mean i'm a little that's so strange it's a little weird you know and he used to be a corrections officer which is really fucked up because to become a corrections officer they're gonna do a background. Because to become a corrections officer, they're going to do a background check on you. Oh, man. They're going to make sure you're not a felon. Squeaky clean. Yeah, you can't be this gangster dude and be a fucking guy who is a corrections officer.

We should get his application and read what it says, what it takes to be a correctional officer. All the criteria. Yeah. How about the pictures of him with the outfit on? You've seen that? I saw those. That shit's ridiculous. I saw it with the smooth face.

What's really fucked up is there's a video of him, an old video of him, and you're on the video. You're on the beginning of it, and then he comes out like he knew who the fuck you were. He put you in his video, right? Yeah, but he said he didn't know who I was. Under oath, too. How do you not bring that video in and just stick that in his video, right? Yeah, but he said he didn't know who I was. Under oath, too. How do you not bring that video in and just stick that in his face and it should be case closed? Well, the judge didn't want to see that.

Whoa. So is the judge just getting bribed? Must be. I mean, you know. Has to be. It looks funny to me. How can you? That has to be bribery.

100%. That judge should be in jail. There's no doubt about it. That's your fucking name, man. That's your fucking name. I mean, and to let this guy come in court and say that he never heard of me. That's hilarious. And how he invented the name, you know, was like, wow.

You know, he gave us some elaborate story. Well, when I heard him on this video, it was so stupid. It was like, no, the name came about like 10 years ago. Like, what does that mean? It was like a non-answer to the question, and he was just, and then he tried to like beat past it, the question, just talk about how people just like to talk a lot of shit and start a lot of shit, and I'm like, what?

Yeah, he likes to bolo. He likes to bolo people, you know, when he come in and, you know, like either you're going to do the interview or you ain't going to do the interview. I ain't going to talk about this, you know. I'm'm gonna talk about what i want to talk about oh i see so he doesn't just come in and just have a conversation with you he comes in like with a specific set of rules exactly i think most of his interviews are rehearsed and written down you know the way i mean the way they seem like to me you know i mean everything about this guy you know

is suspect you know when i was in jail somebody wrote me a letter and said hey his beard is fake what could you imagine you catch him backstage blue and black cotton balls on his face yeah this chick wrote me and said oh his beard is fake too i mean you know it's just so much stuff you know you hear and people you know shooting your messages and and all kind of stuff like that there, man. Matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago, I get a call and it was a guy that was in jail while he was a correctional officer. You should hear the story. You should hear the story this guy had to say. What did he have to say?

What did he say? Oh, man, he said this guy was one of the worst CEOs that you could be. You know, he was one that, see, a CEO really doesn't have power. He has to go to his boss and tell his boss on you. So he said that this guy was running around the cell, sneaking, trying to hear what they talking about. And if they shooting dice, he'd run up and tell his boss, hey, they're shooting dice, boss.

Let's go get them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the kind of guy they're using for. And then, like, when they do raids, you know, when they raid your cell, he would be the first one they push in, you know, the big fat guy, you know, because everybody would be kind of scared of the big fat guy. So they would all get behind him and shove him up in the cell so all this big blob of meat is coming at you, you know.

So he was their battering ram. Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. Wow. It's so fucked up that that guy got legitimate, that all of a sudden he's a legit rap star. Man. It's fascinating.

It's fascinating how that snuck by, you know? Well, you know, our people just let him slide him on in there on us, you know, and slowly and slowly uh he was accepted you know it seems like that can't last it seems like you know rappers have a short shelf life anyway a lot of i mean there's dudes like jay-z and naz that will just stick around just because they're so talented you can't stop them but a lot of rappers they they come for a little while and then i kind of think this is this is going to take wind out of his sail eventually well i don't know you know when when those people put when the labels put that money behind you and you

become made they money cow you know they have a sense of just shoving you down everybody's throat you know keeping you on the radio right and anything people here on the radio you know they believe it but once they can get money out of you they know they keep getting money out of you so they just use you as a cow they just use you as a cow so they keep milking you and keep milking you and and it's going to be up to the people to say you know what we don't care how many times you shove this guy in our face we're not buying yeah you know we know he's a correctional officer we know he never sold drugs you know he's a fake and we know he sold he stole rick ross's name he's got your name tattooed on his body and

we wanted to give it back you know i'm? That's what the streets need to tell him. You know, give Rick back his fucking name. Yeah, give him back his fucking name, bitch. If it makes you feel any better, he was on a TV show and he left his hat there. And our friend Tom Segura stole his hat. And he wears it every day. Tommy. Oh, that's hilarious.

That's beautiful. Yeah, Tommy was excited that I'm going to talk to you. He's a stand-up comedian, good friend of mine. Now, your story is you were an aspiring tennis star, and then you went on to make somewhere in the neighborhood roughly of like $600 million from selling crack in Los Angeles. Yeah, in like two years I did that. That was my last two years. I don't know.

God. Before that, I made a lot of money before those two years i did that that was my last two years i don't know god before that i made a lot of money before those two years what's really crazy is that this all has a connection not just to los angeles but to ronald reagan and oliver north and the contras in nicaragua this is what a lot of people don't know there's's crazy conspiracy theories that people are always talking about. Oh, man, the CIA sells drugs. And then, you know, Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone. And we never landed on the moon. And when you talk about conspiracies, people go, what the fuck are you talking about?

You crazy asshole. You really believe the CIA sold drugs? Well, fucking yeah, they did. Not only did they sell drugs, Michael Rupert exposed it when the CIA director tried to come to Watts and have this big meaning to try to prove. I remember that. Yeah. I saw that. Michael Rupert's a bad motherfucker.

I saw that on Nightline. I mean, even in their own investigation, though, the CIA admitted that they knew about it. That their operatives were selling drugs. Now, they did this to fund the Contras because Congress had cut off funding. Absolutely. So they needed money to fund the Contras' war against the Sandinistas, who were backed by the Russians. Right. And this was during the Cold War, and they were supposedly worried that the Russians were going to take over Nicaragua.

Was that the idea? That was what they feared. You know, I read a couple books on it after I found out, after the story broke. I wanted to know more about what I was involved in. And what they feared is that the Sandinistas, basically, Russia had gave the Sandinistas like $100 million. And Congress had cut off all monies to the Contras. So they had to figure out a way to raise this money to defeat this army that had $100 million. You know, back then, I guess $100 million probably would be equivalent to a billion dollars right now today.

So they were looking for ways to raise this money. So what they decided to do was sell weapons to Iran, convert that money back to Nicaragua to these guys, and these guys could take that money and go and buy drugs. That way it wouldn't leave a paper trail back to the U.S., and that's basically what they did. And that's what got exposed with the Oliver North trial, and that's when Ronald Reagan had to get on TV and said he couldn't remember. Yeah, yeah.

He couldn't remember whether or not they sold arms to people who hate us. And then you know, too, in the Kerry investigations, they sold arms to people who hate us. And then, you know, to in the Kerry investigations, they told him to stop right at the drugs when they started to go into the part about the trafficking in the cocaine. They had it stopped. The hearings. Why did they have the hearing stopped right then? I don't know. Just to to inflammatory. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. My documentary is going to explore that. My producer and director for my documentary was sitting there in the senate hearings so he's bringing all those tapes and when is this documentary going to come out this documentary should be out in like november of next year we're hoping now did you find out about this connection between the countries

the senate east and all this while you were in jail yes i was in jail was in 96. so you had no idea about the cia connection no i didn't care man i was just trying to make money you know i was a a kid in south central and and i was illiterate i couldn't read couldn't write uh and i found out that you know my tennis career was basically over because i couldn't go to college there was no way i was going to college so where were you playing tennis you like tournaments and stuff yeah i played tournaments southern california tournaments was basically over because I couldn't go to college. There was no way I was going to college. So where were you playing tennis? You know, like tournaments and stuff? Yeah, I played tournaments, Southern California tournaments. And, you know, when you play those tournaments,

you don't have to turn in your report card. You know, you just go out and play. They don't ask you that. I also played high school tennis. And I had dreams of going to college and playing college tennis. And all that was derailed, you know, when it was discovered that I couldn't read or write. Wow. So how did you get through school that I couldn't read or write. Wow. So how did you get through school if you couldn't read or write?

They just passed you. Yeah, man, you know, teachers, they don't really care about if you're getting your education or not, for sure, at that time. And by me being a good student, I guess, they just kind of like felt they were doing me a favor by just letting me get through. But being a good student, how can you be a good student if you can't read or write? Well, I didn't cause them any problems. I see what you're saying.

So you were just dealing with a wild bunch of kids and you were a nice guy. Right. Sit in my seat, you know, probably go to sleep in class most of the time, you know. Wow. And don't cause a teacher no problems you know if it was time for me to read I would go to principal office get my squats for being bad in class that day and you know the next day I come back and go back to sleep Wow this is an amazing that the standards are so low that all you have to do to be a good student is not be crazy and a problem

exactly you don't have to participate at all that's amazing and I never really participated in class. You know, none that I can remember. Well, I've always said that the number one problem with this country for sure is that we don't care about other people's kids. We don't care about how other people's kids are growing up. We don't care. If it's not your kid that's illiterate,

if it's not your kid that's growing up without a father, if it's not your kid that's growing up in poverty, doesn't know where their next meal is, you don't give a fuck. But meanwhile you give a fuck about what's happening in another part of the world, freedom of Afghanistan and all this nutty shit that went on in Iraq. Our real war is with our own people that we have to live with, our own national community. And our national community has six spots, and these six spots are the ghettos. And it's real simple.

If you get an unlucky roll of the dice and you're born in that sixth spot well guess what you're fucked you're fucked you got to figure out a way out of that somehow or another but the odds are long against you long against you and that's a real travesty it is we as human beings concentrate on some shit that's going on in another part of the world that's not even connected to us and we don't concentrate on people that we're gonna fucking come in contact with and spending billions spending more than that trillions and we're not concentrating on the people that we're really going to come in contact with the people that are going to grow up and be a problem with everybody they interact with because their life is fucked from the get-go and be a problem for your kids yeah you know just imagine you know in a few years your kid is

walking down the street and he run into one of these kids that didn't get it you know in a few years your kid is walking down the street and he run into one of these kids that exactly didn't get it you know and you get robbed there your situation is so crazy it's so hard to wrap your head around you know that you you were involved you were like a part of this gigantic machine and you didn't even know about it no you just would you just were trying to sell crack they gave me away some money They gave me a way out. You know, you look at. How did it start? How did I start selling? Yeah.

Oh, man, I was sitting on my porch one day and I was so broke. And one of my big homies called me. He said, man, I got the new thing. I said, huh? He said, man, come over here right now. So I jumped in my car. I had an old 66 Chevrolet. I threw a dollar worth of gas in and I drove to his house that might be my last dollar right Wow Wow my last dollar in the tank I'm through now so when I get to his house he he made it out you know it was cocaine you know and he was like man this is a new thing

and i saw the movie superfly and i'm like wow superfly that's me you know and i'd always wanted when i saw superfly man i just love that movie you know when it's hilarious now you try watching now it's kind of hilarious yeah yeah i might have to do that you know when i's hilarious now you try watching it now it's kind of hilarious yeah yeah i might have to do that you know when i when i when i finally bought my first vcr just the way they're dressed the way they talk yeah he goes my hall my vines he goes this is all i ever wanted in life my hall my vines a white woman like you and you know my hall like that's what these they call their car my vines was his clothes you know it's like the nicknames were hilarious the ones that didn't stick i haven't watched that since like 82 or something man wow but when i bought my first vcr man that was the first one i had

i threw it right up in there whoop wow okay so so you you go over your friend's house he's got it all now this is crack or this is not. This is cocaine or crack? It's powder, right? But he's cooking it in the rock at that time. Now, who taught everybody to cook it? How the fuck did that come about? Because that, to me, is a massive mystery that someone figured out how to take cocaine and turn it into a more addictive, easier mystery. It was already guys cooking it when I started, right? But it was only a few of them.

But his free base is different than crack, right? Yeah, free base. Like Richard Pryor had a free base but it's still the same product they were cooked but they were just taking coke and cooking it how are they doing it you cooked it with ether Oh which was a much more difficult process but it's still the same product technically the only difference is that with free base I mean with with with what they call crack, because we didn't call it crack. We called it ready rock. Ready rock.

Yeah, we called it ready rock. The difference is with ready rock is you use baking soda. Now, what I did is in my neighborhood, there's three guys that could cook it. These guys were very expensive. Very, very expensive to cook it. So what I did is once I learned how to cook it from these guys, because I kept watching them do it over and over and over again, and they keep charging me to cook three grams, they might charge you $175.

So I keep paying them. How much three grams cost us? What is it when you're selling it? Back then, three grams would have been about nine hundred dollars so out of nine hundred dollars you pay him 175 bucks that's pretty pricey it was it was pricey but what they did it took them 10 minutes 15 minutes you know yeah i mean you think getting the coke is the hard part that's a really hard part then you got to cook it up so you know that was another part but once i learned how to do it what I did is I just started showing all my little friends how to do it.

You know, so that became like a job for them. They could just cook and make, you know, what other guys were charging $175. They could charge $125 and, you know, and just sort of mark it up. But it's weird that Coke is expensive, but crack is not. Mm-mm. Not true. That's a misconception. It is a misconception.

Big misconception. Crack is not. Mm-mm. Not true. That's a misconception. It is a misconception. Big misconception. Crack is expensive? There is no crack without Coke. Right. So if you took a Kia Coke and you cooked it in a crack, the price don't drop. So what is the benefit of cooking it? The price goes up. The price goes up.

You make more money. Do you need less to get high? Is that what it is? No, no no no it it it don't really have anything to do with the high see if you spend 40 000 for a key of powder you still got to get at least 40 000 for the key of cooked right but people think that it's cheaper there's some misconception that they have put in people's mind that rock is cheaper. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's still the same key of cocaine.

You still have to get your money back out of it. If you spend $40,000, you still got to sell that rock for $40,000. So what is the benefit of turning it into rock then? They can smoke it. Yeah. Is that better? It's a better high, they than than than smoking powder is it uh do you need less of it to get high that way uh no is that so it's so there's no benefit financially

going the way of crack opposed to coke if you're trying to get fucked up if you take powder and put on their pipe it's going to burn different so it turns the pipe all black and gooey. But rock, it took all the impurities out of the Coke. So now you're just smoking pure cocaine, and they like that better. And that's what the baking soda comes in? That's what the baking soda did. And that pulls the impurities out? Is that how it works? Right.

It cooked all the impurities out of it and turned it into a gel. Now, you meet this guy. You go over his house. He's got the coke. And, you know, you decide, all right, this is it. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be super fly now. Did a light bulb go off in your head?

No, I didn't believe him, man. Really? He showed me something that was about the size of one of those little match heads and told me it was worth $50. And this is my boy, too, though, you know? This is my boy, right? If it had been somebody else, I wouldn I wouldn't even touched it but this was my boy telling me this right man that's worth $50 I'm like wow come on Mike stop it $50 man the police would never catch me with that you know I'm talking about

something so small right you could barely see it you know I could put in my fingernails right and he telling me that's worth $50 and I just spent my last dollar on gas and now he telling me that this little thing is worth 50 so I can make my money back what's $40 and he gave it to me you take it and go Wow so you know I go and I'm going around trying to figure out was it really coked you know so I'm going to everybody in action and action and nobody really knew what it was what year was this 79 into 79 beginning of 80. now in the 80s for people who don't know i uh i was living in boston at the time and i remember when crack hit and it was it was like a wave of crime just took over it was weird it was like a wave of crime just took over. It was weird. It was like a real noticeable increase in crime once crack had become a part of the culture.

Well, you know what? When people start smoking cocaine, they're going to do whatever they can to keep that high going. You know, big, steel bar row. You know, I mean, it was something about it where they said it was so joyful that you never wanted to stop. Wow. Some guys used to say

it was the best sensation they'd ever had. And you never fucked with it? I tried it about one week, maybe a week and a half. For a whole week? Yeah. Damn. Was this in the beginning? In the beginning, yeah.

In the beginning, I caught myself early. You know, I went through a phase where, you know, we thought we had came up on some money. And then, you know, I thought I was rich. I had about $10,000. And then all my friends were like, man, come on, let's smoke something in weed. Wow. And the good thing, though, come on, let's smoke something in weed. Wow. And the good thing, though, I had never smoked weed before in my life. That's a good thing?

It was at that time, yeah. So that probably what helped save me from becoming an addict. So that you weren't used to smoking things? Right, I wasn't used to smoking. I was a tennis player. Right, right, right. You were healthy. I was healthy. So when I started smoking, you know, started putting the lacing in the weed and smoking,

and I looked up, my money was like, wow, man, you had $10,000. You're down to like $500 now. Wow. Yeah. That quick? That quick. It was going quick. How'd you stop? Was it hard?

No, I just quit. I said, man, this ain't what you went into the game for. But was it difficult physically? Did you stop was it hard no i just quit i said man this ain't what you went into the game for but was it difficult physically did you have a withdrawal no withdraws no well you have a strong mind you probably pulled yourself out of it a week you know yeah i think that's all it takes i i did i did it for about a week and i never felt the addiction like i did the baking soda thing where how often did you do it uh for that week i probably did it twice three times two times a day i no no no i mean three times three times for the whole week oh but i mean i was also doing a lot of cocaine at that point and and i never got i never liked

the crack is it uh some people get addicted some people don't is it one of those you know you gotta you gotta pull yourself and you gotta find a reason why you want to quit addicted and some people don't. Is it one of those things? Well, you know, you got to pull yourself and you got to find a reason why you want to quit. Right. See, some people, you know, like I got an uncle. He's been getting high since the day I started. And you know what he tell me? What? I don't want to quit.

Wow. What am I going to quit for? We had a friend who was a comedian, who was a heroin addict, who wound up dying. Mitch Hedberg. Very funny guy. Really, really funny dude. and they tried to stop him a few times he's like bitch i ain't stopping shit that was his attitude he's like this is me i like this i mean a person should be allowed to do whatever it is with their life yeah as long as they don't hurt anybody else and fringe on your rights that they want to do i agree 100 now you're you're sitting there you're how old were you

when this happened when I started yeah 1920 1920 so you're 1920 you get started in it and then how do you go about going from that to everything branching out to you being the biggest most famous guy it was it was I guess you would say like an evolution you know learning process you know the first time i learned that first piece of cocaine i got i got beat out of it another one of my big homies beat me out of it you know told me let him test it let him smoke it and you know it wasn't big as a match head so he cut it in half and he smoked a piece of it and he was like oh that's the way they used to do you know when

they smoke it and smack their lips and taste alright I mean I need another piece though to make sure it's good you don't want to go out there selling nothing ain't right chipped it again and the whole thing was gone it was a little teeny-weeny piece left and he's like man I'm gonna go and smoke that too and then I'll just pay you Friday. Pay you Fridays. Never happened. Never has it.

Hamburger today. Never. I never got that 50. Never. You probably never will. Those I'll pay you Friday guys, they never pay. They don't. So that was my business in the cocaine business. So right away you went, okay, I got to be a little more prudent with my fucking my resources here it started and ended right there right i felt like my career was over

how was i gonna go back to mike and tell him my man i'm gonna go tell my man man i ain't got the 50 dollars man wow i want to re-up but i don't have the 50 but uh what happened is is that guy who beat me out to 50, and he taught me another lesson, he come right back that day with somebody that won $100. See, like with people who use, if they owe you, then they'll come when they'll bring somebody else with them and say, oh, man, this ain't my money, this is his money. That's hilarious.

So he came back with somebody who wanted to buy a hundred hours worth and I called my man I said man I ain't got your 50 but uh somebody else want to buy a hundred dollars but if you want it and he shot over there serving that and next thing you know this guy who beat me out the 50 kept bringing person at the person at the person and next thing I know I'm making two hundred dollars a day, $300 a day. But now I'm giving all the money to my man. And, you know, one day I was just like, man, I'm going into business for myself. So how did you get a distributor?

Well, it started just like that. I started off just getting it from him. And then I've been talking about going to Venice skill center to do a post re and men this teacher there they taught the class had become really really good friends we played tennis together you know I just stopped going around him because I spent all my time selling coke and one day I go down you know just to see him because this was my man and I hadn't seen him. And I said, man, how you doing? He's like, man, where you been, man? I was like, man, you don't want to know where I've been. Right?

So I went on and told him. I was like, man, I've been selling coke. You know, that's what I'm doing now. He's like, what? He's like, all right, my man. Wow. So he had a whole different attitude than I thought he was going to have. But, you know, he was fly.

You know, I used to like his little jewelry. Right. He drove a brand-new Cadillac and all that, right? So he said, man, come by the house. So I go by the house, man, and he lay it all out. He's like, man, you think I got this house, this Cadillac, these clothes, and I like this here on a teacher's salary? No way. He said, man, I travel the world. can like these clothes and like this he only a teacher salary no way he said man i traveled the

world he said i should sell coke but i just backed up for a while whoa so uh it's hard to do that right you had the nicaraguan connection yeah you got to be really really strong to back up without going to prison or getting killed it's very few people do right very few do i i don't know i don't know not one person that just quit on their own, I don't think, without going to prison. Wow, that's amazing. So this guy gets you the Nicaraguan connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He called this guy up, man, and this guy was like, I'm from Nicaragua, you know, spoke broken English and gave me some prices, man.

And it was like all love. I was like, man, I'm going to be rich. Wow. So are you familiar with how they got it into the country or at the time? Did you know how they were getting into the country? No, I didn't. My mind wasn't that big, you know. You were 20.

I'm 20 years old. Right. Never had nothing. Right. You know, I hadn't had, I had never had nothing right you know I hadn't had I had never had a thousand dollars before I started selling coke I don't know if I had ever had five hundred dollars you know what I'm saying right right right so um I'm just thankful that I'm in this position I ain't asking no questions you know what I'm saying I'm like superfly I don't

ask no questions as long as the man let you be the man, leave it alone. And that's the way I was. That was the attitude I had. I was just going along with the process. Wow. That's got to be a crazy position to be in, man, to all of a sudden start taking off and you see it and then you're just rolling in this money.

I mean, it really is like a movie, right? Did it feel like a movie to you? Like all of a sudden you go from being broke to just balling. It was like a movie right did it feel like a movie to you like all of a sudden you go from being broke to just ball it was like a dream you know you feeling like you know finally uh god had recognized you you know all this time all this time you've been ignored by god and now all of a sudden you know all the things that you'd prayed for and hope would happen in your life had just taken place wow that's a crazy way to put that, that God had recognized you. That's how I felt, you know, honest. You know, I felt that it was a blessing from God that I'd been put in that position.

And now, you know, my family wouldn't have no more hungry nights, and we wouldn't be worried about the lights getting cut off, the gas, and, you know, those roaches and rats wasn't going to be running through the house no more because I was going to get some rat traps and get rid of them, you know, those roaches and rats weren't going to be running through the house no more because I was going to get some rat traps and get rid of them. You know, and we was going to patch them holes up in the cabinets. And, you know, all the things that I regretted when I was a kid, you know, standing in line with food stamps, all that was over with. Did you learn how to read at this time? No, man, I didn't learn how to read until I went to prison.

Wow, that's amazing that's amazing I was forced to learn how to read what did you do with the money like how'd you bank man I had big safes I had safe son they come out the Queen Mary way 2,500 pounds one time they stole my safe on my house I said they'll never do that again you know this dude put me up on these safes that it took like a little train track to ring it through and wow they wasn't moving that so be a professional safe mover to move them up out your house when they stole the safe out of your house how much was in the safe and i think i think one time they got like maybe 180,000 160,, in cash, in a safe. Yeah.

And you just weren't home or something? They knew when you were leaving? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They knew. It probably was an inside job. Of course. You know how that goes. One of your family members open the door and let them in.

Isn't that crazy? That's crazy to think about, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So then you got a big giant safe and you kept it all in the safe. You mean you had to be locked down at all times. If you had that kind of cash around, you're not dealing with banks at all? Oh, no, no, no. I didn't go to no bank, man.

Wow. You know, my mom, she used to take, because I had a couple of properties in my name, and so my mom, I used to let her go and collect all the rents, my Section 8 checks. And she used to just throw them in the bank because I I paid the mortgages and stuff out my dope money in The the banker used to say tell your son to come in and meet us He's doing pretty good in real estate Wow, that's hilarious So did you come up with a bunch of businesses to sort of mask your money? Yeah, I had quite I had Did you come up with a bunch of businesses to sort of mask your money?

Yeah, I had a custom time wheel shop, car wash, shoe store, beauty salon, junkyard, motel, bought an old theater. And I had apartment buildings all over the place. I used to build apartment buildings. That was like one of my hobbies. Did you have to show how you got the money to buy any of these businesses or starting these businesses I figured out how to launder you know people taught me how to launder the money right how you go to the bank and you get the cashier's checks and you know so so we figured you know we figured it out how to get around it now all this time you couldn't read no that's amazing but so when you went into the banks and fill out the paperwork how did you do that

well I would just have somebody else to do it for me. You know, like if I'm buying a piece of property, the real estate agent would do most of the work. Now, I've had times where they told me one thing and it wasn't what it was, you know. So those are the chances that you take when you can't read or write. Wow. Like one time I had a building that I bought and they told me that the note was going to be $3,000 a month. And the note turned out to be $3,000 a month and the note turned out to be $6,200 a month. So it cost me like $3,200 a month because I couldn't read the contract.

Wow. So, I mean, it's costly when you don't know how to read. That's incredible that you accomplished so much without learning how to read. That's amazing. Well, you know, what I felt is that I had developed a sense of people you know I could feel good people and bad people just just just sensing them who to deal with who not to deal with and you know you make some mistakes but you know overall I think that uh you know I did all right with some of them

so as long as you were making them money everybody was making money everybody was happy yeah yeah you know I paid for anita baker's first album too wow seriously wow that's awesome yeah i financed beverly glenn music uh oda smith who was the owner of the label rest in peace uh he used to take care of me when i played tennis he would buy me tennis shoes and rackets and so when i came up i ran into one day, and he wasn't doing all that well. So, you know, return the favor. Oh, wow, that's beautiful. He got his tenfold, you know.

Yeah. When they say you get a tenfold, he used to buy me a tennis shoes and rackets. I get him $600,000. Wow. So, you know, sometimes you do a good deed, they come back to you. Might be, you know, took, well, we 10, 15 years, but. So how did it all come apart? Man, it was coming apart from the beginning.

Right away, it was just crazy. Yeah, what wound up happening is, you know, they created this task force called the Freeway Task Force. Yeah, that was each group of officers just to go after you yeah because you were freeway ricky ross yeah yeah they said that my name was ringing so much downtown the city hall had a special meeting wow they said who is this guy in south central making all this money that everybody in south because what i found out is when i finally got arrested is that not the people wasn't really telling on me right to get me in

trouble they was bragging about me yeah homeboy Rick he millionaire he got this he got that he run the whole hood you know so it this is creating a hysteria downtown and they like who is this guy why is everybody talking about him and what i found out these guys are in jail talking about me too you know like they sitting in holding tanks and and they having conversations about freeway rick and so the guards are hearing this and they're going to report it and so now everybody wants to know who is this guy imagine if it was rick ross the fake rick ross he was hearing about the real rick ross and went and reported you imagine we find that shit out hey could you imagine i mean that's a goddamn connection

right there we might have fucking found the magic bullet that's hilarious that's hilarious so they hear about you Through legend You just You just become Now are you aware Of how famous you are At this time No I'm in a shell See my guys know

That they ain't Can't talk about me Right You talk about me To your girls And nobody Right You tell them what

None of my business Right Right They ain't in our business They don't even know Our business But It wind up Getting past the line you know when

you got that line but it jumped over that line and everybody knew yeah it became public and you had no idea i had no idea it was public you thought you were just like like a cat hiding under the couch and you think you're hidden but your tail's poking out you know they think you can't see him like bitch i see you yeah you're mine you're all mine so and that's what i was living under i was living under that illusion that that nobody knew who i was because i didn't drive the fancy cars you know i could walk in a restaurant nobody would spot me right right right they wouldn't be pointing oh they're gonna wreck over there so you kept it low-key you stayed in the same house uh you I had houses although you have a bunch of houses bunch of houses but they wasn't

you know mid-level didn't get you get a matches nothing crazy right Pasadena estates with the giant lawns and fountains and shit none of that right yeah you not nothing like that it's not worth it what else I found out though is that see my guys have become so big in their own rights is if they mention your name one time to their little workers and then their workers run out oh man the homie Rick took care of us and these guys words were so powerful that they would only have to mention you one time you know they like I guess you would call them almost like evangelists and that you keep having these type of guys mention your name then the next thing you know

your name is everything this is all what you surmised once you got into prison really sat down with all the time in the world to analyze yeah what was going on how how long did it last how many years did you sell for eight years eight years so you're 28 when you got arrested yeah wow that's crazy so you would live a long career for a drug dealer it's huge yeah yeah most of my friends who started you know and got big two years three years and they gone what kind of car were you driving and try to stay low-key man I had a Ford LTD station wagon with the wood grain on the side. I had the exact same car. Wood grain on the side.

And I had the little bird. Yep. You know, the little funeral home bird. Wow. On the side of the windows. I had a 1981 of this. But wait a minute, the funeral home bird, did you have that on purpose? You put that on there?

Yeah, I put that on there. So it looked like a funeral home car? Yeah, the police put up on the side of that They looked the other way Nobody want to look in that car That's hilarious So it was almost like a hearse Yeah how many people you know

Want to look in the funeral home car That's brilliant That's fucking brilliant So you were driving around In a scam car Wow I knew if the police Started to pull that thing over

The police was in there That's hilarious But you must have like Look looked at ferraris and lamborghinis god damn i could just go buy one of those oh my guys had them you know if i want to go out in a ferrari i just called one of my guys man i'm gonna use your ferrari tonight oh oh that's cool okay you're you're a vet you know without the headaches you know right right i ain't got to put it up i ain't got how did you get so smart? That's amazing. It just started coming, you know, just little by little.

You know, some say, no, don't wear no jewelry. Because if you wear jewelry, everybody's going to know you sell drugs. Right, right, right. I didn't want my mama to know I sold drugs. What did you tell your mama you were doing? I didn't. You know, when she found out I had all that money, man, she, one day, she when she found out I had all that money man she one day because my spot is is like my spot was like two two or three miles from my house so what I would do is I would go to the spot work and every time I get like two thousand

I'd run to the house and put it up and run back to the track cuz you don't want to be standing out on the track with too much money because the police come over man will you get $3,000 what you doing standing while this money right problems so what i would do is every time i get a couple thousand dollars i'd run to the house and put it up so my mom see me keep running the house you know back and forth back and forth all day long i'm doing this all day all night i don't do nothing else i ain't got a girlfriend i'm single right right this is my love is to be out on the track i'm doing this 18 19 hours a day is my love, is to be out on the track. I'm doing this 18, 19 hours a day. Wow.

Sleeping, jumping right back in. Yeah. And all the time you're sleeping, you're losing money. Sometimes I sleep in the car on the spot, you know? Wow. With shit on you? Just a little bit, though. Are you packing a gun?

Well, I got my boy standing out. He's standing back. Like, say for instance, we stand out on the street and we call it a curb service. Now, I would be standing out on the curb and then he would be sitting like in somebody's yard with the pistol uh-huh so if somebody got at me or something like that then he would just bust out and start running right so he's he's from a different vantage point they don't even see him as a part of you see him as my like the police if the police come and raid they're gonna grab, stand out on the block, and they not even gonna bother him because he's up

in somebody's yard. Right. So, you know, we had a little crazy system that we had lined up, man. That's brilliant. So, you had a spot, was like on a street corner or something like that? Like there was an area that... 81st in between Hoover and Vermont. It was

like apartment complexes you know a bunch of apartment complexes and how do you get a spot like what do other dudes try to move in on your spot because they know that everybody goes there to buy well at that time nobody was trying to move in on my spot because nobody really could get the cocaine they didn't they didn't know how valuable cocaine was they didn't really really I had abandoned the spot when other guys start coming in you know I had gotten so big see I didn't stand on the streets long because I took all my money and parlayed it back into the game so I got big so fast that I was able to then start selling these guys

three grams and then they would go out and sell it and I was just making like fifty seventy five dollars off every three grams that I would sell them and that started to be so much money that I didn't even need to sell fifties and hundreds so people just became said it became a you were like the main dude and everybody sold it for you right right so then where did you keep everything did you have like a warehouse like how did you have it set up so you could hide it? Well, eventually what I did is I set up spots. Like say, for instance, if you, eventually when I got real big, I have like $50 spots.

And if you go to my spot and spend $50, it would be like going to somebody else's spot and spend $100. You could do what they call double up. You could double your money. You buy $50 worth, you can make 50 more now if you would go there and you start buying those 50s and you get up to spend in 2000 then the people at that house would take you to another house where you would have to come there and spend 2000 then if you got up to buying 10,000 then you would get to go to another house and then we would have a lot of these $50 houses. They would be just all over the place.

And then it would just be a few $2,000 spots. And then it would be even less $10,000 spots. And this is all for distributors. Right. This is all for distributing. So you had like distributing houses. You had like a whole tier system. Right. That's brilliant. Absolutely. off for distributing so you had like distributing houses you had like a whole tier system right

that's brilliant absolutely i didn't know i didn't know exactly what you know what how they called it at the time but i knew see what i did is i dealt with people the way i wanted to be dealt with i knew the problems that i had when i was coming up so i tried to cut out all their problems for them i didn't want them to have to deal with none of the headaches. You know, not worrying about how to cook it, how to get it at a safe price, how to make sure that the place was safe. I took care of all that for them. When they came to me, they knew they was going to get their proper stuff. They knew they wasn't going to be robbed.

They knew how they would be able to re-up again. Everything was like cookie cutter for them almost. Wow. That's amazing. So you're doing this for eight years. You said from the beginning it was crazy. But when did you start getting legal problems? Man, my problems started around 86.

How many years in was that? Six years, six and a half years almost. So what was it? They started arresting you they started asking where you're getting money freeway task force man they started to go crazy first day they started to raid spots that we didn't even sell drugs that you know they started raiding my girlfriend's houses and in planting drugs on them you know cuz I didn't keep drugs at my girlfriend's house cuz I stayed there you know but those were the easiest spots to figure out you know where that were

connected to me you know where people came over because they would let their friends come over like my work spots you didn't come to my work spot listen you sold drugs went on need for you coming over there don't even you know don't even ask where that's at right so they raided my girlfriend's houses and then they would take them to jail for drugs and and stuff like that there so i'm like wow so then they started to get my guys you know they started to catch my guys driving down the street and they planned drugs on them and it just got really crazy until it got to the point where one night i'm uh coming from a basketball gym. I'm going to adjust your mic real quick. Okay. Just put it like this. It makes a big difference.

Yeah, all right. Okay, there we go. Yeah, so I'm riding down the street one day, and me and my guys, and we said, man, look at all the homies over there playing dice. So they was at my tire shop. So we jump out, go by, holler at them, you know, see who winning the crap game.

And when we get ready to leave, the whole crap game come with me, you know,'s 10 11 o'clock at night so they all want to walk me out to the car make sure everything is good so i jump in the car and pull off and i look in the rearview mirror and it's a car following me with no lights on so we're going to high speed chase you know chase for a few minutes through the hood trying to lose them and then i look up cars all around it coming pot lights popping on you know I'm saying I'm like oh man set up so uh I wind up getting out the car jumping out the car leave the car rolling and jump out and get away well they shooting at me police bam bam bam bam bam but it's whizzing across my head and the whole nine yards. And, uh, I get away. So once

I get away the next morning, my lawyer called me and said, man, you had, uh, you had two kilos of cocaine on you that night. I said, man, I ain't had no cocaine that night. He said, yeah, they, they, uh, they said you had two keys of cocaine and you shot at the police. So my mom called me. You know, she's crying. Oh, the police been by here, raided the house, had everybody outside handcuffed. Said they're going to kill you. Why don't you turn yourself in? So her and my lawyer convinced me to turn myself in.

And we go in. We, you know, fight the case. I wound up beating it, though, because the drugs was all planted. How'd they prove the drugs were planted? Man, it was hard. hard you know i'm saying i stayed in jail for a while no bail they had me on a million dollar bill 1251 where all the property and everything had to be inspected and make sure it wasn't drug proceeds and all that man it was crazy going through all that but um while i was in jail the cops come down to my cell to interrogate me so they pulled me out to sell take me to the back of the

jail you know what they put people up and stuff and starting to ask me a bunch of crazy questions about drugs and all this and about my lawyer you know your lawyer should have let you take the deal. Who know why he think he going to fight this case? You ain't going to win. We always get our man. So during this time that they're interviewing me, they recording everything. And at the end of the interrogation, they tell me, you better not tell your lawyer what happened.

If we find out that you told him, we're going to take care of you. So I don't even tell my lawyer so we get to court the next time we go to court and uh they got the guy on the witness stand he's testifying I said man you know that guy came down and see me like two weeks ago and so he thinking that I ain't gonna tell my lawyer never right so my lawyer springing on him like man you was at the county jail a couple weeks ago he was like yeah cuz you know he signed in so he knew he had to say yeah he said you saw my client he's like yeah he said you know he had a

lawyer than you and he's like yeah I knew he had a lawyer now don't you record all the conversations when when you interview suspects he said yeah I want that tape he said yeah I want that tape and so they put brought the tape in the tape was all spiced up and cut up and erased and all kind of stuff really the judge was like man get this case out of here really but what they did is they took it to the feds and had the fears to indict me without the tape you know like that lost the tape you know they never told affairs about the tape so the tape so the feds indict me for that case but then when they do i had hired a private investigator

to invest the cops to investigate the cops then we showed them here look what we got on them you guys don't want to use them as witnesses that's hilarious what did you get on them oh man we had them beating people, playing drugs. 150 people got released from prison behind those cops doing what they did. What a lot of people don't realize is how deep corruption is in some police forces, especially in Los Angeles at a certain point in time, especially like the Rampart District. People don't even know the story behind it. That was a criminal gang.

Now, do you know Rampart was a fall off from the freeway task force really yeah freeway task force was the beginning of that whole thing the freeway task force was the most elite task force in in in the country just to get you just to get me i feel fortunate what's crazy is you're out now does it feel weird to be a free man telling the story how many guys get their own task force they're very few it was like one in a billion you get your little rapper puppet you know yeah hey you got a freeway task force a rapper puppet you lived a fucking charmed life you sold 600 million dollars with a coke yet you're out on the street and now I might be finna get a judge Wow you might get a judge yeah what do you mean in this case you know this judge might I don't know which case this Rick Ross

case yeah you you think you the judge is corrupt I don't know we say I don't know are you investigating this judge I am yeah yeah I think you should I mean I want to know how she came to her conclusions you know why why did you yeah those are ridiculous conclusions exactly so I want to get to the bottom I'm gonna get to the bottom of it you know well have you found anything she probably can't talk about it right it's your free Mason a little bit a little bit you know he ain't no free Masonason. No, she. He means the judge. Yeah, but he's not either, supposedly.

What, is he supposed to be a Freemason or something? The rapper. Rick Ross is supposed to be a Freemason? The fake Rick Ross? He said that before, but you know. What should we call him? What the fuck is his name again? Billy Bob.

Let's call him Fat Bill for the rest of the show. So Fat Bill is supposed to be a Freemason, too? I don't know. He said it on a couple songs or something like that. Wow. Okay. But I know the Masons are not really happy with it. Oh, really?

That's hilarious. They contacted me. They're not happy with that at all. Wow. So you get arrested. So eventually, how do you wind up getting taken down? You got through all this. You got through this one case where they try to plant two kilos on you.

More supplier, Danilo Blandon. he bring me down your supplier brought you down this was the nicaraguan guy yeah he brought me down he gave you up gave me up and this is delivered me oh and this is while the oliver north shit all that was going down. Was this before that? I think it was after that. It was after that. Ali had got his pardon. I need a pardon, too. Anybody out there know Obama, tell him I'm looking for a pardon. I did my part.

I mean, why should I get a library like Reagan? That's hilarious. That's so true, too, right? If you really find out. I mean, people think that this is nonsense. The connection between the CIA and selling drugs has been pretty well documented go look up a case on a guy named barry seal barry seal was a guy out of mina arkansas who was by the way that's bill clinton's fucking stomping grounds that's where they were dropping coke they were

flying coke in from south america and they were dropping it off in mina arkansas and the story goes two kids see the drop uh they catch the kids and kill them and then they put the kids on the train tracks and say that the kids fell asleep on train tracks and got they were high and they fell asleep and they got run over by trains so the parents do an autopsy on the bodies and they find knife wounds wow so they find out no no these kids were murdered they go into the story turns out barry seals gets busted because it was his plane that was coming in at that time and they find knife wounds. Wow. So they find out, no, no, these kids were murdered. They go into the story. It turns out Barry Seals gets busted because it was his plane that was coming in at that time. And then they find out about the coke, and he gives up all the information. They wind up assassinating him when he was on his way to trial.

Well, man, Gary Webb killed himself, shot himself in the head twice. Twice. With a shotgun. Was it a shotgun he shot himself in the head twice with? I think so. I haven't saw the reports, but I think that's what somebody said. It was a shotgun. Wow. Yeah.

How do you shoot yourself in the head twice? It seems like that's what... You didn't do the job. Yeah. You had a job to do and you didn't finish it. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Take care of it. I've heard it's possible to shoot yourself in the head twice, but that's also the dude

who was the whistleblower for Enron, shot himself in the head twice. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Not too suspicious, right? This gigantic multi-billionaire scam goes down. One motherfucker starts ratting people out. He winds up shooting himself in a car twice in the head. Really?

How many people have committed suicide by a gunshot to the head twice? I mean, I've seen people get knocked out with, like, a little bitty punch. And you're telling me you shoot yourself in the head? You're awake after they had good willpower yeah i guess make sure the job was done well i guess if you had any strength left if you shot yourself in the head and you realized you were still alive you had any strength left you would probably shoot yourself you know you'd be like what the fuck i'm gonna just bleed out here in the car man this americans buy anything yeah so you do you think gary webb was murdered i mean his book dark alliance essentially what happened is it started out a bunch of

articles written for the san jose mercury news and it was later published as a book and the three-part series he investigated the nicaraguan linked uh to the cia back contras who had allegedly it's like he exposed the whole thing and brought the Reagan administration into light and exposed them for essentially being drug dealers. Absolutely. Gary was an amazing man. I mean, you know, he's the one who stopped the forfeiture laws. You know, they used to take your property before you were found guilty of a drug crime. And Gary made him stop that and said, hey, at least you got to take this guy to trial. Find out he was selling drugs before you take his property. Because before, they would take your property, sell it, and then you get kicked out of prison and you never got convicted.

And they'd be like, oh, well, your car is gone. Well, what's hilarious is if you look at how the Patriot Act has been used, how many times the Patriot Act has actually been used for terrorism, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. Because the Patriot Act classifies drug selling as terrorism. So the Patriot Act has been used for drug selling thousands of times and it's been used for terrorism like a small handful. It's kind of cute. It's kind of cute how they've figured out how to circumvent the system. Absolutely.

I mean, it's crazy the way I saw thing on cnn the other night and they were talking about how california has built so many prisons and absolutely no colleges in the past 10 years i'm like i mean this is what happened to an ounce of prevention yeah you know we're going with pounds and tons of cure but no prevention. Well, the worst thing ever happened that could be possible. They made private prisons. They made it profitable for people to put people in jail, which is fucking insane. I mean, that's some Orwellian shit.

That's some shit that should have been taking place. It is slavery. It is slavery. It's 100% slavery, especially when you have certain government organizations that lobby to keep certain things illegal like drug selling like non-violent crimes like non-violent drug offenses when you're you're telling someone that they don't have control of their own consciousness and because you they don't agree with you as to what they can and can't do you're gonna lock them in a cage and profit from it that's amazing it's a great business that's somebody fucking amazing though that in 2012 with our all the access to information

that we have today, that that's still a legal thing. I mean, it's just another piece of perfect advice or perfect information, rather, that just shows you how corrupt the system is. Yeah, it's it's it's it's incredible. It's incredible when you really stop and think about how many prisoners there are. That's good that we got people like you though bringing this stuff to light i mean i don't see why more more people don't stand up you know but i guess people saw what happened to gary and they're like yeah right me me go out there and put my job on the

line and my family and their well-being i want to expose that's already been exposed that's i'm i come in like third fourth fifth sixth i'm not the number one guy breaking the news so you make sure it's safe shit's already clear it's already on the internet by the time i hear about it i'm like a third-hand reporter somebody finds it on the internet they tweet me i find out about it and then i go with it but uh i actually found out about you through kevin boost documentary um uh the the great white hope the American drug war yeah Kevin's a good guy Kevin uh you know kept an eye on me when I was in prison you know wrote me I could call Kevin he interviewed you from prison as well he did he did when I met with Kevin Kevin

made my life a little easier while I was in prison you know shout out to Kevin Booth Kevin produced my first DVD. My first comedy DVD. 1999? 2000? I sent the book. I read the book that his buddy wrote. Bill Hicks. Yeah. Kevin's a good guy though. Yeah. He became

who he is because of his friendship with Bill Hicks. He used to follow Bill Hicks around and record him. Bill Hicks, as far as stand-up comedians are concerned, one of the top ten greatest comedians of all time, for sure. Right up there with a lot of people like Richard Pryor. Even though he didn't live very long, died of pancreatic cancer when he was only in his young 30s. So he creates this documentary, The American Drug War, and that's how I heard about you.

And that's how I heard about, because oh and that's how i heard about because i'd already i'd already heard about barry seals and uh barry seal and his connection with uh the cia and selling drugs but i didn't i didn't know of any one person like you who could be directly connected to the dude that was connected to nicaragua that was connected to oliver north and the whole chain of events absolutely absolutely i think when uh when the whenlandone testified against me, he talked about his boss going on a fishing ship with George Bush Sr. Wow.

When Barry Seale was murdered, he had George Bush's phone number in his pocket. Deep. Deep. As deep as it gets. Might have been a tracking device In that phone number Yeah

We know where you at And meanwhile And meanwhile No one goes to jail No one on the outside Goes to jail Oh yeah Nothing

No one goes to jail Why should they? It's amazing They make the laws But how the fuck Did they let you out? Me? How's that work?

Yeah You went in for 20 years? I had the life sentence man And how'd you get out early? Learning how to read and write And study the law and found a loophole. What was the loophole? Well, what they did is they charged me under the three-strike law. And what they were saying is that since I had got convicted in all these different states,

that those added up to three strikes. But what they didn't see in the law is that in order to get struck out, you have to go to prison, get out, then commit another crime, go to prison, get out, and then commit the third one, and that's three strikes. So they can't get you on three felonies before you're ever convicted. That's not three strikes. ever convicted that's right three strikes right it's not three strikes if if if if safe isn't what i use is is a guy standing out when

i used to stand out on the street i used to make hundreds of sales a day right there on that one block so i said now if somebody wanted to they could have gave me a hundred convictions right because i sold to different people every time right so i didn't believe that the law meant that every sale you made was a separate conviction i believe that they meant just like i just explained right right right because if so then everybody whoever sold cocaine would have three strikes and it makes sense because the idea is supposed to be theoretically that jail is supposed to be able to rehabilitate you. Exactly. So if you are unrehabilitatable, if you've gone through two separate times and you're still out doing the same shit,

all right, well, this dude's a career criminal. This is his third offense. Done. That makes sense. And that's how the law was wrote up. Even though I don't believe you should play baseball with people's lives. Right. Because a person could not be changed at one time and then be changed tomorrow and then his circumstances change and he may be in a different position

right you know before you can start passing judge judgment on people you have to live in their shoes right and and you know that's why people ask me now how do i feel about drug dealers and i've ain't got nothing against them right and they do what they feel like they got to do or what they know they got to do so uh before we pass judgment we have to get all the facts and live in that person's shoes to see if we would do the same thing that they did. And you're a perfect example of that. Absolutely. Now, you went away for 20 years. You find this loophole.

How deep into your sentence had you already figured out how to read? How long did it take you? I started reading immediately. Right away? Yeah. Did you take classes there? No. Me and my cellmate taught out how to read? How long did it take you? I started reading immediately. Right away? Yeah, yeah. Did you take classes there in prison? No, me and my cellie taught me how to read. He made me some cue cards with my ABCs on them.

Oh, cool. I went from nose to reading my indictment to reading the newspapers to reading law books. I mean, you know, for the first time what I found out is that I had never wanted to read before in my life. That was the real problem. I never really wanted to read before in my life that was the real problem I never really wanted to read right I mean I didn't see any reason why Jack and Jill went up the hill and why I should know you know what I'm saying they didn't have right they wasn't chasing no money I was chasing money right right right it was it wasn't interesting to you it wasn't interesting to me but then once you realize well there's a lot of information that i don't have access to i gotta i became an advocate reader i

read over 300 books before i left prison really yeah wow you've read more books than i have in my lifetime so you're in prison you're you're you're learning how to read at what point in time did you start devising a plan to try to like figure out a way to get out of there immediately I was trying to get out you know I knew that the guys that were going home was the guys that was going to the library learn how to become lawyers you know they knew how to fight the system and then they had like guys that all they did all day was sit there and study the law you know they would sit at a table while other people were playing cards and chess and dominoes they would be studying the law so i got i got in with those

guys that's got to be kind of a crazy feeling man everybody's just hoping you can crack this fucking system that's got you locked up we it's tough what is the head starts to hurt daily you get you got like migraine headaches and you're sitting in this concrete building. I'm going to try to draw a picture for you. You're sitting in this concrete building. It's 28 stories high. Nothing but concrete and steel. The windows are about three inches wide open and about six feet long. Escape looks almost impossible.

But, you know, you think about that that too like if I had a long rope I could scale the side of the building so uh it's like a desperation you know and you're saying man it gotta be one loophole in these books because you know that if you can show them in the book where they made a mistake or where the book says that they should have did this when they did that then you know you got action so you're you're getting headaches just from thinking and reading too much yeah that's all you want to do you just want to stand them books you know i got a life sentence you know when you got a life sentence it's like this is forever you know this is all you're going to see for the rest of your life you know so um i didn't think that was fitting for me it's amazing that

they convicted you for life on that three strikes law it seems like you should be able to go after them for abusing the law which should be criminal well you can't you can't go at the federal prosecutor he's immune that's amazing from from prosecution because he he's not working as an individual even if it's been proven he's corrupt well maybe if you can prove he's he's not working as an individual. Even if it's been proven he's corrupt? Well, maybe if you can prove he's corrupt, but not because he's unjustly incompetent in your case. If he does something to you,

he could charge you with a thousand keys even though you only had one. And if you got a thousand keys, that gives you a life sentence. If you got one, you get probation. But, if it's powder. That's a thing people don't know about. That's another good point.

Not crack. Because crack was in the ghetto and powder was all these, you know, other people, these people that had money were using the powder. Crack is way more illegal. Yeah. It was 100 to 1. 100 to 1. Wow. That's incredible. Is is that racist very racist it has to be right and i i think i mean and even though they just changed it 18 to

one i think that was still why isn't it one to one and that's what i said because they already proved you know i sat down on the couch with the guy who invented the law really yeah it's gonna be in the documentary sick sick sick documentary after you're out you sat down with them yeah i've been doing that since i've been out i've been doing a documentary since i've been out and and and and one of the things that i got mad about even with obama and his administration is that they didn't make it one to one and then even after they made it 18-1 they left it for guys have been in 20 years 25 years they didn't make it retroactive meaning that they don't get out they don't get no benefit from the from the 18 to 1 it's guys

right now if they if they had the 18 to 1 they would walk out of prison today wow so i'm saying if it's wrong today and you did it 20 years ago was wronged in right but they saying oh well they're they lost their because you know Clinton signed a bill where you're 2255 you got one year after you convicted to come up with newly discovered evidence and the law is crazy man like right now saving this is you go to prison unjustly and you do all your pills and everything one year you have one year to prove yourself innocent. Now, after that one year, if you don't find it,

and then a day after that one year, you find this newly discovered evidence, you can't even submit it to the court. Oh, that's got to be maddening. It's maddening. They got guys in there that found newly discovered evidence that they can't even submit it

for anybody to hear it. So when you went to jail for this and when you're finally in prison was this the first time you had ever been in prison other than the one time you got arrested and you stayed in there for a while no no that was my second time when i got the life sentence i've been in jail twice so you had two strikes you had one strike i had one strike already how long did you go away for the first time five and a half years wow so you and the second time I was entrapped. I didn't even go into that part with you.

I was entrapped because I wasn't selling drugs. I was building a youth center because what I did is I figured out what kids in the ghetto need to get them out of gangs and drugs. I know what they need. So what I did is I bought a theater. They need some instructions. They need somebody to come did is i bought it i bought a theater they need some some some instructions they need somebody to come and and and walk them through it somebody they can go and talk to when they need to talk to them you know not talk to them once they already been corrupted and their heads are already in the game they don't want to hear you then you know i already got my

mind made up i know what i'm doing i'm my own man but before they get like that they need somebody a place that they can go and and they could talk to Joe Rogan or Rick Ross or Magic Johnson or Ophel Renfri or some of these other people who could teach them how to make money other ways you know because in the ghetto you know the first business you see in the ghetto you know what the first business is what the drug man he's going to be the first businessman that you see in in South you know what the first business is what the drug man he's gonna be the first businessman that you see in in south central austin is gonna be the drug man and especially a black man as a business owner because we don't we don't nothing in south central so you the when you got you so you said you got set up this is the last time yeah yeah when i got the

life sentence this guy called me i'm not selling drugs you weren't selling drugs at all how did you stop i hadn't sold drugs in six years seven years what how did you stop i just quit did you quit after you got arrested the first time in five years i quit a year and a half before i went to prison i was like man really i'm through with this i got i got eight nine hundred thousand dollars cash I got property all over the place all I got to do now is make this property and stuff work for me and you know I got enough money to hold me off for a while I'm through with it so I walked away from the game so I'm confused on your timeline here because when you were 20 years old that's when you started and then when you were 28 you got arrested right but you did five years in jail.

Right. Where's the five years? I did the five years in 89 I went to prison. How old were you then? 28. Like 28 and a half. Okay, so 28 and a half. You go to jail for five years. And then you get out for how long?

I got out for six months. For six months. And then they give you the life sentence. Right. Whoa. God damn. So the life sentence is a total setup total setup trap total entrapment i was not selling drugs danilo called me and uh matter of fact he called me the day i got out of prison whoa he was like man i need to see

you i was like man i'm kicking it with my mom you know my mom came and seen me and and stuff like that so i'm like i'm kicking it with my mom. I'm cool. I'll holler at you in a couple of days. So when I finally go and holler at him, he's telling me, oh, man, I got it at this price. I got it at that price. I was like, what? That's a good price. And all this is recorded, too.

So, you know, that didn't help. You know, they was like, oh, you were interested. Wow. So this went on for six months that he courted me, you know calling me dropping the price dropping the motherfucker and then uh one day he called me and i was riding with one of my little homies chico brown and uh i said man that's dude just told me uh when chico's like man i could sell all that and that's how I got started so I wind up making an introduction to the two of them Chico handing the money and

police come from everywhere so you'd never even got to sell no I never sold it so this guy where's he now Danilo he's in Nicaragua just chillin he's supposed to be in a documentary too too. Really? Yeah. Y'all better check that documentary out. It's going to be dope. Wow, that sounds awesome. Now, this Danilo. And we're going to have a cop that planted drugs. Whoa.

Do you have proof that he planted the drugs? I know he planted the drugs. Right, but does he admit it? He went to jail. No, I don't think he's going to admit he planted the drugs, but he went to jail for it. He went to jail for planting those drugs? For corruption, you know, beating people, planting drugs. So he was doing it.

Lying on police reports. It was a habit. That's how he was doing it. Well, I mean, he made money, man. Yeah, well, that's where the rampart comes in. I mean, for people who don't know, most police officers at this point in time believe that Suge Knight hired cops to kill Biggie Smalls, and that he probably also had Tupac killed, and that he did it all under this Rampart division.

This Rampart division was working for him. I mean, there's a huge Rolling Stone article about it. It's fascinating, fascinating shit that the cops were so dirty that the cops were working with gang members. They were working with murderers, working with criminals, and making money, clearly, profiting. Well, you know, cops, man, they're just like everybody else. You know, they lie, cheat, and all other things that the normal person goes through in life. So I don't put nothing past them, especially when you start putting all that money on the table.

You know, I remember my first young guy who got arrested by him, and they stole his money. He was like 16 years old. And he called me. He was like, Rick, man, the cops just raided my house. I was like, yeah, you all right? And he was like, yeah, I'm cool. I was like, what'd you have?

He was like, man, I had like $40,000. I said, what happened? He said, man, they asked me who money was, and I told them it wasn't mine. They told me to go. Wow. he said man they asked me who money was and i told him it wasn't mine they told me to go wow so when he got out when i got with him you know we called the lawyer and told the lawyer hey man it was 40 000 at that house but with no drugs so he called and they said man with no money at that house wow that's super common right yeah yeah that happened all the time there's no one policing the police there's no one governing the government Yeah, yeah. That happens all the time. There's no one policing the police. There's no one governing the government.

It's tough. You know, that's the real issue. They got the guns. Yeah. Well, not only that, they can change the laws. I mean, we see what the fuck is going on now with this country. It's like every week they come up with some new, even more restrictive, even more or well-in-law that gets through that allows them to tap your phones with no wire, with no warrants, rather, you know, listening in on your phone calls, tap your fucking GPS systems.

They can follow everywhere you go, and they can do all this shit without warrants now. Yeah. I mean, and they do it supposedly under the guise of terrorism, but it's really under the guise of making it easier for them to prosecute you for whatever the fuck they want to because there's a goddamn business in locking people up in cages. Exactly. Exactly. So that's what they're into.

So you find your loophole and then you chase after it. You're in jail, right? Yeah. And then once you find this loophole. I remember that day when I read it in the book. It was like, man. It just popped out at me. Boom.

Go to jail. Comm commit a crime and get released I shot to the phone I called my lawyer I see man I found it Wow so what happens then well it was discouraging what he said after he read it he didn't see it the same way I did damn you're a better lawyer than your fucking lawyer I should get an honorary degree yeah yeah so so I just told him to put on the books you know then the judge went through her thing oh no mr. Ross it's not the way you say it is and I was like can she must can't read if she can't read that she can't read so then the prosecutor went through his whole thing. But then I went to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals,

and they agreed with me totally. You know, said that if they did it the way they were saying do it, that they would lock up everybody who would be career criminals on their first arrest. Yeah, literally everybody would be in life. Here I am. Here I am. A free man. So Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, they agree with you.

They side with you. You released immediately? No, I had nine more years to do, man. Jesus Christ. Why nine more years? That's just the way it was. You know, that's how much time I had left. Okay.

So you had 20 to life? Because they cut me down. No, no. I had a life, but they cut me down to 20. So the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals cut you down to 20? Mm-hmm. Okay. So at least you knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel then.

Right, right. So then were you trying to... Oh, I was happy with that. You were happy with that? Yeah, I was going to leave the penitentiary because I was up at Lompoc Penitentiary, you know, USP Lompoc. And what is that place like? Oh, man, that's a dungeon, you know. Everybody in there got 40 years or better.

You know, they mad at you up there if you got 20. You know, they got to get you out of there with 20 years. You know, something might happen to you. Really? Man, yeah, those guys got 40 years. 20 years is freedom. 20 years is you're almost free. Yeah, you got to walk on eggshells around here.

If you have 20 years. Man, you ain't got but 20 years. You better go away, man. Wow. That's how they talk to you. They would, like you oh they'd be mad at you they're mad at you if you only got 20 years yeah but you got 30 years they might be mad god damn that's hilarious yeah hilarious i mean you can get hurt you can get hurt there just because you got 20 years how did you stay out of danger well uh like i said when I got my time cut I only had to stay there like three more months and I was out of there so it was it was easy for me and and you know I'm a well-liked guy too so in jail yeah yeah they like

me how dangerous was the prison that you were in initially the first prison before they moved you out oh man I saw guys get hit in the head with iron mop ringers iron what mop ringers a Iron what? Mop ringers. A mop ringer? It's a ring to mop out with. It's this great big old thing. Might weigh about 15, 20 pounds. Yeah.

And a guy sitting in his chair, and a guy walks up behind him and just smashes his skull with it. I mean, brutal, brutal, brutal, brutal sight. I seen a guy get beat with a baseball bat, aluminum baseball bat, until his head was like mush. They had to helicopter him out on the helicopter i think he had brain damage though he didn't you know was a vegetable i've seen guys get stabbed you know while i'm taking a shower you know you hear this loud noise

like just keep bumping up against the wall boom boom boom really violently you know and you know this is somebody's body you know like why would somebody be hitting the wall this hard, you know, and so I wrap my towel up and I look my head out to shine when I see this guy and this guy is stabbing him and so to get off the knife, he's just throwing his back and head and everything up against the wall trying to get away from the knife, so it was really violent, I mean, prison is really violent, you know, you have to be careful, i mean prison is really violent you know you you have to be careful especially in the usps you know the usps or but low ones are dangerous too but not as dangerous as usp because these guys don't have nothing what is the usp u.s penitentiary

yeah u.s penitentiary what is the difference well say for instance the fci you can't have more than 20 years and be at the FCI if you have more than 20 MCI stands for federal correctional institution that's like a medium okay so if you have more than 20 years you're gonna go to a USP now if you go to a FCI and you got 20 years but you keep getting into trouble fights and you know something maybe you stab somebody then they're going to send you to a usp because they're like okay you go up here these guys can handle stabbings so they'll they'll boost you up then they got what they call a low is for the guys who got like five years six years then you go to a low so they kind of keep it

separated like that by your violence by how much you get in trouble, things like that. So the USP is the most dangerous. That's the most. Absolutely. Absolutely. Murderers, life sentences. And then they have guys from all over the country, say from you in Washington, D.C., and you've been getting in trouble in Washington, D.C., then they ship you down to California to keep you out of trouble.

You know, some of those guys from D.C. are really, really violent. And what they do is they take all the baddest guys from all over the country and they put them in USPs. So you may have a thing where guys are fighting over territory, like the TV. You know, like the D.C. guys or the Philadelphia guys might say, man, we want to watch this program tonight. The Philadelphia 76ers are playing, so we want to watch Philadelphia 76ers tonight because you're always watching the Lakers. So that could cause a fight. It's kind of like territorial, you know, the way it works.

Did you get into any violent interactions in prison? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I stayed in the law library. Really? They don't come in the law library and fight. So that's how you avoided everything? Most of the time the only time I really would put myself in a in in in harm's

way is when when football season you know I played flag football with the guys I played basketball with him but I always had a mentality to to to defuse anything that ever happened I wouldn't You know, if somebody filed me hard on the basketball court, it was my fault because I put myself on the basketball court. If I filed somebody hard on the basketball court, it was my fault because I filed him hard. So I would always apologize to guys when I filed them hard. But that's just the type of person I am.

You know, when I play basketball, I don't mean to hurt anybody, but sometimes I do. You know, I file a lot. But, you know, I got them hard. But that's just the type of person I am. You know, when I play basketball, I don't mean to hurt anybody, but sometimes I do. You know, I file a lot. But, you know, I got along well. You know, people respected me, and I showed the utmost respect for everybody. Did you have to align yourself with any groups in prison? I didn't. No, I didn't.

Even though I am adopted by most groups, You know, they adopt me. Most groups? Yeah, most of the groups in jail adopt me. You know, I mean, everybody. You know, the Philadelphia guys, the Crips, the Bloods, the DCs. I mean, I'm just cool with all of them, you know. The only one probably is not is, what's the, the Serenios and the Aaron Brothers are probably the only two groups that. But it's the Serenios Mexicans?

Yeah. And then the Aaron Brothers, obviously, is KKK dudes. Yeah, other than that, I got it on. And even they got it on, you know, they would speak to me, you know. Hey, Rick, what's happening? But, you know, we don't hang out. But they don't hang out with blacks. Now, the day you got

out of jail man what the fuck was that like the day you get out of 20 years and knowing that you got out you know on your hair by hair you know it was luck because you know it was guys when i was in prison it was guys who had the same issue i had that didn't get out wow that argued it almost the same way you know matter of fact we're trying to get the guy who was the first guy to get a life sentence for selling crack we're trying to get his interview and his issue was was almost identical to mine it's a little different though but close and he's in for life he's in for life and he was only like 20 years old 19 years and

it is the same situation? They used the three-strike rule on him? They used the three-strike rule on him, yeah. But he didn't have three convictions? His convictions are a little different, right? He did have convictions. His was he went to jail when he was 18 years old. He got out, and the same day he got out,

he went right back on the block and started selling dope again and he got arrested that day so he wasn't convicted he wasn't convicted of the first one when he caught the second one but they said it don't matter if he was convicted you had been in jail so you should learned your lesson and you went back out and you did it again there's got to be a lot of that he was mad at me when i won really yeah and he's supposed to be my man too he was mad man how you win i had the same issue i said no yours a little different see i never got out on mine see on mine they took me from from l.a they took me to texas they took me to ohio took me to st lou Louis all before I ever got released. I never got released.

Now when you got out what's the first shit you did? Ah. You already know man. It's been a long time. I only got me some. Old girlfriends? Yeah.

No. No. A new girlfriend. New girl. Yeah. A new girl. Did you know this girl make like the girls like contact you like while you're in prison yeah yeah i got a lot of letters because you were famous i was famous american gangster magazines and they knew you were coming out too

as is magazine yeah they knew i was coming home they they started to publicize that i had got a date wow weren't you the first one of the first guys to use a social marketing website? Yeah, yeah. I'm the first prisoner to start a social network, freewayenterprise.com. Y'all check it out, too. Right now I'm ranked like 100,000 in the U.S. Sometimes I go as low as 70,000. I'm trying to break down to like 30,000 in the U.S.

And it's called freewayenterprises.com? Freewayenterprises.com. And what is involved in this social network? Well, what I do is I give people an outlet for their music, for their videos. You know, like a lot of the sites now, they're charging to put their videos up, and I don't, they can put their pictures up,

they can meet friends and share music and share pictures and just different things, you know that they do on social networks so i offer those services for them do you have any inside scoop on who killed biggie man somebody else asked me that man they already said that the rolling stone article read it they said the rampart cops did it oh really i don't have a clue you know i was at i was at usp line Park when Biggie got killed. I mean, I was disappointed that he came back to California. I thought that was a little crazy, you know, with what had happened to Pac.

You know, I knew that it wasn't safe for him to be out here in California because guys in California are very vengeful. And when I heard that he was in California, I was like, what was he thinking about? It's kind of crazy that musicians started killing each other. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. I mean, that had never existed. We were just talking about this when we were in Atlanta this weekend. They were the first musicians and artists, basically, that would start killing each other.

Wow. Wow. Has Tupac contacted you at all? No, not recently. What are you asking? Did Tupac contact him yet all? Nah, not recently. What are you asking? Did Tupac contact him yet? No, he hasn't. What do you mean?

Tupac? You mean the new hologram Tupac? No, no. People say Tupac's not dead. Nobody says that. That's not an idiot. A lot of people do. Like, what's his face?

Just said it the other day. That big music executive. I'll tell you. One second. Hold on. Yo, there's a photo of him on the autopsy table. It's real simple. Back in the days before they had Photoshop.

Tupac's dead. JFK. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. They killed that dude. So how many people are a part of your freewayenterprise.com social media? I think I got right around 16,000 to 20,000 members right now. Oh, that's pretty cool.

Well, I'll guarantee you have more today. I hope so. I need them. I need them. Y'all sign up. Help your boy out. Sign up and also follow him on Twitter. It's Freeway Ricky on Twitter.

And check that out. I got 40,000 followers on Twitter. I'm doing pretty good. That's beautiful, man. I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, you messaged me when you only had like eight. I remember you messaged me like, how do I get more followers, man? I'm like, I can't help you.

I'm trying, man. I'm learning all this social stuff all the social media but i know they pay so much attention to uh hold your boy in the backgrounds what do you what are you asking me what's that this car what'd you say his car is parked right there oh that's fine it's fine oh don't worry about it man they don't this they don't do prosodina dude nobody's ever put out more music after they're dead than Tupac, right? Yeah. Hologram.

Hologram was creepy. You see that shit from Coachella? Yeah, I heard about it. I didn't see it, but I heard about it. It looked like Tupac had been lifting weights. Is that right? Yeah, they had him all MMA'd out. He was yoked. He looked like George St. Pierre. It was ridiculous. Seriously, he had a six-pack. It was way more muscular than the regular Tupac.

It was weird. It was like Tupac had just been doing kettlebells and CrossFit and shit. You know? I mean, these record labels are getting away with, phew. I mean, you know, they don't care who wins the war. You know, they got both of them covered, Biggie and Pac. Now, record labels nowadays, they're fucked. There's really, they have to make a percentage of the artists that are out there performing live, right?

I mean, how do they make money now? Yeah, they do the 360 deals. What does that mean? Well, they get a percentage of everything you do. If you do a commercial on TV, they get a piece of it. If you do a concert, they get a piece of it. If you get a tennis shoe endorsement, they want a piece of it. They't used to do that no they didn't they used to just be strictly music but uh and what did they always get a piece of the live performance now they do but they didn't always no

really so this is all post mp3 world right right it used to be the the performance used to be all artists money what is the benefit of having a music company now it seems with the internet, it would almost be a hindrance to be involved. Well, marketing. Marketing. Marketing dollars. Because, you know, people believe what they see and hear. But once you get to a point like Jay-Z or someone. But he's already under contract, so he can't get out.

Oh. But what I'm saying is, if he started his own shit and started helping people promote themselves, like he starts promoting people you could enable people to become famous on their own yeah you think jay-z wants to help people why not i mean i don't know i mean i think that that it sounds logical but if someone explained to him how much better his own life would be if he helped other people's lives and it makes you actually feel better yeah he'd probably try it but it's hard to sink that into people's heads everybody's so fucking competitive yeah everybody wants to just get all the money and and hog it for themselves

and they don't understand that someone else's success does not equal a failure for you it's not like success that was yours and you didn't get it this guy got it it's not like there's only a certain amount of gold out there and like you you're telling people where the gold's at and again they're like damn that could have been my fucking gold. No, I mean, someone else's success has nothing to do with you. That's a whole new human being. Yeah. It's crazy, but most people don't want to help nobody.