The Joe Rogan Experience - #2114 - Zack Snyder

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Zack Snyder is a filmmaker, producer, and screenwriter known for films like "Justice League," "300," and "Army of the Dead." His latest film, "Rebel Moon - Part One: A Child of Fire," is now available on Netflix. Catch the sequel, "Rebel Moon - Part Two: The Scargiver," on Netflix April 19, 2024. www.netflix.com/tudum/videos/rebel-moon-the-scargiver-teaser www.cruelfilms.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience Showing by day Joe Rogan Podcast by night all day We're up, what's going on man, how are you? I'm good I'm good Welcome aboard, thank you for being here No thanks for having me My pleasure, you made two of my all time favorite movies The Watchmen, their fucking love

Okay awesome And 300 Okay awesome my all-time favorite movies. The Watchmen, which I fucking love, and 300. Okay, awesome. If I have a top 20 list, I've never formally put together a top 20 list, but those are in there, for sure. Oh, that's cool. First of all, I appreciate that, because 300 was a complete labor of love and insane. Like, 300 was, I was a Frank Miller fan for a long time

right and I I thought the for I thought I would do another I thought I would do Dark Knight Returns frankly that was the movie I wanted I still want to do it I always tell everyone like Dark Knight Returns if I do Dark Knight Returns I'll be done with comic book movies really well because like if you've done Watchmen oh sorry I'm banging the mic If you do Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, like for me, your good, your, your legacy is set. So like Batman vs. Superman literally steals a lot of Dark Knight Returns. I'm not gonna say it didn't, it did, but it's still not Dark Knight Returns.

So I think that's still out there, but I always, you know, for a long time I had that, I had 300 like on my coffee table at my house when I was making TV commercials, you know, and I'd have my friends over and be like, I'm gonna make this one day, it's gonna look exactly like this comic book. And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, sure it is. And yeah, I was having a general meeting with Gianni Nunez,

who was one of the producers, and he was asking me about what I like, and he had that graphic novel in his office, like on his table, and I went, well, okay, you know what, if I could do anything, that book right there, I would make that. And he goes, well, what do you mean? How would you make it?

And I literally just opened it up, and I go, we'd film this. We'd film these film these pictures would look like this and he goes Okay, that's cool. Like so you're saying you would just shoot the movie and it would look like this graphic novel I go that's what I'm saying and I think and that's what but but at the time we couldn't sell it We tried we went around town with it. We tried it. I literally we went to all the studios You know they were all kind of, kind of like, yeah, sword and sandals. Yeah. Wasn't it the same time that Troy was being made?

It was exactly the same time as Troy. And when we went to Warner Brothers originally with it, they literally were like, we have Troy. So why would we want this? We have Brad Pitt, like literally Brad Pitt is in our movie. What are you, I go, we're gonna do something crazy. We're not even gonna shoot it outside. And they were like, what, okay, you're nuts. And I go, yeah, we're not gonna go for one shot outside.

We ended up going for one shot outside for this, when the Persian messengers are coming, super high-speed shot where the horses are kind of coming over the hill. We shot that outside because we just couldn't get the horses going fast enough in the... it's the shot right before this I think. Oh no it's this one that's it. It's that shot. So that shot was the horses... that was a high-speed shot we did with Photosonics outside but that was it. That's like the only shot outside Everything else is on stage. Because you couldn't get the horses to run fast enough inside.

It was too expensive. That was a low-budget movie, you know, we couldn't get it. 300 was a low-budget movie? Yeah, because we I mean we shot it all on stage 60 days like that's like why there's no director's cut of watch of 300 is because We every frame of film we shot is in the... You shot that movie in 60 days? 60 days, yeah.

Wow. That's crazy, yeah. That's insane. It was, we were just, it almost killed us, but it was fun. But yeah, so when we took it to Warner Brothers, they were like, you know, finally, well, what happened was I did Dawn of the Dead, and then from Dawn of the Dead,

I was supposed to do I am Legend, and I am Legend was this movie that was at Warner Brothers that they were like, what do you think? And then for some, there was some kind of crazy mix up and they ended up giving that movie to someone else. And then I think they felt bad or whatever and they said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I really still want to do 300. And so we shot that test shot. There's, I think it's on the DVD, there's a test shot we did and they said, okay, if you can make the movie look like that, go do it.

Was that one of the first movies that was ever shot in front of a green screen? Like basically most of the movie except that one scene? Sorry. Yeah, I don't think it was like, look, green screen photography was like a well-known way to make a movie visual effects movie Yeah, I don't know about a whole movie. Yeah, that that that was weird I always say like they go like well what innovations like what and I always go like it's basically the same technology that the weatherman uses You know like you know when he stands in front of the green screen and says like all the, the front's coming in from the north. You know, it's literally, yeah, it's literally

the same, it's literally the same technology, you know, as a, as a, because look, that easily you could put like the weather behind that guy right there and it'd be the same. That's well, that's Eli. That's my son. Oh, wow. He's now making movies. He was the second director on Rebel Moon. Oh, that's my son. Oh, wow. He's now making movies. He was the second unit director on Rebel Moon. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, he also plays the young Rorschach in, Watchmen really?

Yeah, like the baby Rorschach, yeah. Cause like, you put your kid in the movie and I always was like, oh, let's have Eli do that cause it's easier, you know, like, he has to like beat the other kid up. This Eli's better cause like, I don't have to talk to like some, you know, other, cause like, actually there's a scene in Watchmen you know where he bites the other kid up. This Eli's better, because I don't have to talk to some other, because actually there's a scene in Watchmen

you know where he bites the kid's face, and he pulls the flesh off the face, and I go, you know what, let's just get E to do it, because then I can just be like, okay, E bite this, now pull it, rip it off. The only troubling part of that is that there was a scene that we did in that movie where the, you know, because Rorschach's mom

was a prostitute, right? So there's that scene where Rorschach's mom in the flashbacks like, I should have had that abortion, right, and she slaps him in the face, right? Because he hears, mom, is he hurting you? Like, because she's having sex with some John in there. And then she opens the door and she's like you know, he's like, is he hurting you? I should have had that abortion slapped him. And I had

wanted the mother to be topless in that scene and they were like, nah, like you can't have and it's cool because his mother was visiting set that day and his mom was there and she was like, oh, you're putting our son in a movie. We weren't together at the time. His mom and I, but we're really close friends. She was an actress and I said, and they went, the only way that the woman could be topless is if it was actually his mom. I was like, oh, I go Denise. She was like, no chance.

Imagine asking your ex-wife to play a terrible prostitute who slaps their son and says, I wish I had an abortion. Holy shit. I go, come on, it's for the drama. It's not like, oh my god. I know. She was like, you're insane. I was like, come on, it would have been awesome. It's at least slightly insane. But that would be the only way to do it. Could you CGI boobs on her? Yeah, that's cool.

At the time probably, now I think we could. Now I think we could have. Yeah, I think we could have. If I wanted to do it now, I think that's how you would do it. You do it with some sort of chest rig and they would paint them out and then redo the boobs. That's a good idea actually. How much of any CGI was used on their bodies in 300?

Zero CGI on the body real really good. We didn't have the money honestly so many people I know so much shit. I swear to God. I'm like, you know, you get you did Mark twight on the show and then Mark will tell you You know market mark train the, Mark's like this amazing, he's like, I've known Mark for years and he's an incredible Alpine climber. He's like this, he's just like this insane, he can shoot, he can fucking, he could do anything that anyone can do. And like when I asked him to train the guys, he's like, this sounds like Hollywood bullshit,

like train actors for a movie, like they're all fakers, they're all liars. And I was like, look, you, you will make them honest. And so he's like, all right. So he started training everybody. Yeah, there's Mark right there. And the, his gym was called Jim Jones, right? Like just as an example of like how hard he is. But yeah. And so like, you know, he had trained all these seals and you know, basically it was basically the same thing that he was doing with the seals he did with these actors. And so a prerequisite had to be imagined. You can imagine. You had to be in some form of shape.

You had to be in some shape, a teeny bit of shape. A couple guys came to us, they were pure actors, but 90% had some shape. How much time did you have to work with them? I'm trying to remember. Normally what I like is at least five weeks. I like five weeks, and I'll take more if you'll give it to me. Sure, for a film. For a film, but I mean prepare physically I'm talking about before the film starts at two months or three months I like before the film starts of training. That's enough time to get them into that 300 it never is these guys trained at doubly as hard and they knew a lot of them were athletes anyway

So they came in with like, and Jerry had had more time. And Jerry trained with his own guy. Jerry didn't train with Mark. But like, yeah, so, you know, it depends. Like, you know, Henry Cavill, Mark trained Henry for, for Superman. And that was a very, that was a real, that was longer. I think that was three months or four months. But yeah, it's never enough time because you just can't get it. And then on, like actors, they just, ideally, you'd have a, you know, half a year, six months would be perfect, really.

At least. Yeah, I mean, just to get you, you know, visibly, you know, I mean just to get you you know Visibly, you know, I always say the one thing is like I always say the one thing about Movies is that and the thing about mark that I love was that he he went to psychological war with the actors In the best possible way, you know like he what he was looking for He would always say I'm gonna put you in your pain cave and you're gonna find out a lot about yourself when you're in there, right? And then when you come out of the workout, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna grow. You know, I'm gonna grow you here. And

some people, some people just don't, they don't like that, you know. Especially people who happen to like, you know, fitness isn't like a lifestyle that they've chosen, you know? No, that's a journey that you have to be really dedicated to go down. If you're just a kind of a casual and someone comes along and says I want to put you in the pain cave like, I'm not interested in that. I think it works with actors because he makes it part of the crucible of the performance, you know, and I think if you can connect it to the performance, it makes the training mean something.

You know, I was always, I've always been like a sort of bodybuilding fan, like in the 80s, I trained with this guy in the 80s, who was just like a teacher that lived, you know, this guy, Jim Arden, who lived in Greenwich, Connecticut where I grew up, he was a teacher at this school called Greenwich Country Day, which was near the boarding school that I went to. And I was like, you know, everyone expected me to be like, I played soccer.

I was like an athlete. I was really, but then I sort of got into like weight training. I was like, that's what I want to do. Everyone thought I was insane. But like, you know, and I think it was, it was my meeting Jim and Jim being like, because Jim had this in the basement of Grinch Country Day, there was like this weirdo Jim and like, you know, Chris Dickerson and like, you know, Mike Katz, all these like crazy 80s bodybuilders would show up and train with

him and it was like this weird, I'd be like this is awesome. And like we went to the Olympia, like he took us to the Olympia in New York City. I don't know what year was that, like 82 or 3, I forget what year. But anyway, it was just really cool. And I was just in this, and then of course I was like, you know, Schwarzenegger, I read his like book, Education of a Bodybuilder, you know, it's a weirdo book. Did you get involved in bodybuilding yourself? I mean, I trained with Jim because I thought like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll be a bodybuilder one day. That'd be cool.

But of course, I was also painting. And I remember when I was a senior in high school, after I graduated, I went to London for a year, to art school, to paint. And I lost like 40 pounds of muscle in that year. Just like literally, I was in the best shape of my life, went to England to be a painter and like literally just ate baked beans on toast for a year

and like starved to death. But I was like, this is amazing. You know, like I'm an artist, you know, but it was definitely, it definitely put a, but I always had the like, but I always had that aesthetic, you know, bug in my head. And now I have, my trainer now is this guy, Alessandro. He trained everyone for Rebel Moon.

And he's like this, he's like six in his early sixties, Italian was a bodybuilder, was a powerlifter, became a bodybuilder. And he's like, you know, he's just like this. He's a hard Italian, no bullshit. Like, you know, it was cool because during the, during the training for Rebel Moon, one of the actors

was like, I have an idea for a workout. Do you want to hear it? He's like, I have an idea for a movie. Stay in your lane. Exactly. He's like, or like the guys at the gym, like, because, you know, he used to like judge bodybuilding competitions and, you know, has his bro card and everything. It was like a real bodybuilder.

And they'd say like, hey, can you come and look at me you know I have a contest coming up in the bathroom and they go in there and the guy take a shirt off and he'd be like how long to the competition I like oh you be like I got two months till the competition and I was hard to be like I think next year for you is gonna be better you know it's like oh you know and he has no problem saying you know, I think I need to lose like 40 pounds more like 80 Jesus, he's like he's hard, but he's but he's awesome. He's like no bullshit Like he's holy. I I I think he's and like, you know, he trained the guys for all the moon and he's like a pure aesthetic

Mm-hmm trainer like right pure aesthetic, you know, he's just going for a look seen everything, you know, he just like okay You know your abs could be sharper, you know? Yeah, that's a weird thing. Yeah, it's like a whole thing. You know, it's like just like- It is a whole thing. It's like a whole thing. Yeah, I had Ronnie Coleman on.

Oh yeah, exactly. You know, Ronnie Coleman at one point in time was the freak of all freaks. Oh, he is hands down, like no one's ever gonna be better. Like- He's the freak of all freaks. Yeah, like it just like,

the way his muscles attach is like crazy like you can't well he was probably one of the strongest bodybuilders ever unbelievable and that's part of the the reason why he looked the way he looked he didn't look just big he looked super powerful you see like guys that are just incredibly swole where they can't like their muscle bound like they can't And he could like always just like he could just like touch his like back of his head Unbelievable. Unbelievable. That's so insane. Yes. Alessandro Was in a competition with him night of the champions

I think in San Francisco and he said like he goes I come from Italy. I like I I'm in my first competition. I pull a card and I realize I'm next to Roddy Coleman and me. I'm like, he's like, great, this is fucking perfect. And he goes, the guy, you know how bodybuilders, the whole thing is about your skin being super thin so everything shows. He goes, I saw him backstage and I thought,

you know what, the skin's not there. It's not gonna happen. He goes, but then him backstage and I thought, you know what? The skin's like not there. It's not gonna happen. He goes, but then like, you know, he like, so much muscle, he's like pulls and he's just like, he's like, oh my God. Like where, how is it possible that the skin just can't, the muscle's so thick, just like pushes all the- It stretches all the skin. You see all the striations and everything that you do.

With him just relaxing, like backstage, he thought, ah, you know I'm more ripped in him, but then like he's like no way It's such a weird sport because they're literally on death's door. Oh literally they dehydrate themselves to the point where they have Kidney failure almost yeah The only thing that's the thing that we can all learn from the bodybuilders is like I think that just now in sort of Everything that's happening like with longevity and like all this Like the bodybuilders will do stuff to their bodies that nobody else would dare do

They'll do dosages that no one will do and so like it's cool to to say like okay if you want to know what? Quadruple the dose of anything does right just ask those guys I'll tell you because I I think you'd be like, okay, this is the most you could take and then it's toxic. Oh, cool, I'll take triple that and see what happens. Because they're all searching for the magic bullet. It's kind of amazing how few of them have died. Well, and also they do die all the time, so it's not.

They do die, but it's not like you'd expect it kills all of them. No, you'd think every single one of them. Like how can you be? Yates is in great shape. Yeah, and how can you have been on the edge of it for so long? Yeah, how could you? Yeah, well, he's incredible. That's what you learn.

He's really suffered, unfortunately, Ronnie. But I think he suffered from surgery. I think the surgery got him. There's so many guys who get back surgery, and back then, stem cells weren't available, and people weren't aware that there's other ways to fix your back. The doctors just want to go in there and start fusing discs and it scares the shit out of me now. Everybody that I know that's had that done has had real problems afterwards. It puts extra pressure on the above and below

discs as well because it's an unnatural sort of unit now instead of having three pieces you now have one. Sure. No, it's crazy. It can be a real problem. It can be a real problem. Yeah, and I think that healing, the science behind healing is, you know, it's changing so much.

Leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds. And I think that really that's where the future is. In my opinion, like how we learn to heal is really how we learn to like really stay You know active and like yeah getting stuff done for longer because like recovery is the whole thing You know of 100% recoveries and also being cognizant of what your little issues are and not letting them get chronic when I was young I was just too much of a meathead ignore Ignore work through pain and also when you're doing jiu-jitsu, you're always in pain. So I was just like, just work through the pain.

But then I started developing some like real chronic problems. And it wasn't until I started doing stem cells and then starting to understand like, you can't you can but it's not wise to just go and only do jiu-jitsu. Really you should be doing maintenance weightlifting that's designed to strengthen your joints. And so I really started doing that, and that made a giant difference too. And instead of just thinking of it as a workout,

it's always like, okay, is your car ready to get on the track? No, it's not. You need to change your tires. No, it's not. Your suspension's off. No, it's not. You need more gas. Whatever the fuck it is. Treat your body like that. Don't just say, oh your suspensions off. No, it's not you need more gas. Whatever the fuck it is. I'll treat your body like that

Don't just say oh fuck it off. I'm gonna show up with the flu and I'm gonna go seven rounds. No, don't do that That's stupid. That's stupid every time I've ever done that. It's set me way back It's never helped me never one time that I was like pushed through the pain has it ever been good not a single fucking time That I was like push through the pain has it ever been good not a single fucking time So now at 56 now, I'm smart enough to go. Okay, don't do chin-ups. You're getting tendonitis and your left elbow Stop, you know where this goes. It's right here. You get at the same spot every time every time Let's start doing some wrist curls. Let's start do it. Let's work the legs. Let's do a bunch of other shit Let's do heavy backgrounds. Stop stop doing you pull down too. By the way, it's fine Yeah, there's different stuff you could do that doesn't pull on that very specific tendon But you know overuse injuries those kind of things

So when you're doing a film like 300 and you're getting these guys prepped for this Are you telling them what to eat? Are you yeah? Yeah, I mean nutritionist? It's awesome. If I ever put you in a movie, the cool thing is is you show up, you work out, they hand you food, they like massage you. It's like the greatest. Oh, that's great.

It's a great, like pro athletes. Yeah, like pro athletes. Oh, that's awesome. You're just a pro athlete. You're like in training camp, you know? Dude, I just watched 300 again this summer because my family and I went to Greece. Oh, cool. And so we went, let's watch 300. Yeah. And my 13 year old had never seen Greek 300 before. And she was like, holy shit. Yeah. That's

a fucking movie. We were just in Greece this summer too. And it was cool because we were like in Athens and we were walking up to Spartanon. And I noticed like all the gift shops, they have like Spartan shit in them. And I go, I the guy I go. I'm sorry about that and she goes What are you talking about? And I go I apologize for all this Spartan stuff in here and she goes yeah, it's a fucking movie 300 And I said I go yeah, that's why I said I'm sorry I made that movie she goes what do you mean you made it? No, no, no. And I said, I go, yeah, that's why I said I'm sorry. I made that movie. She goes, what do you mean you made it?

And I was like, yeah, I, I... That's my movie. That's my movie. And she goes, no. And I go, yeah. And then she was like, that's awesome. Now she likes you. Yeah, it was cool.

It was a cool swing, but it was... Well, it's a fucking awesome movie. That's cool. If you don't appreciate it. You can go eat shit Anybody didn't enjoy that. What do you hate fun? Do you hate? Well, the thing is like also I met a lot of like a Lot of seals a lot of like first responders as you can imagine really really You know, I've seen a lot of Spartan tattoos Oh, yeah, you tattoos because of that. And I'm proud that they find some sort of inspiration.

Dude, Leonidas is what every man wants to be. Yeah, it's a... He was perfect. He knew where... Like, look, he knew who to look to to find out whether to burn the whole thing down Yeah, and you know she gave me okay, and it was also the movie was a brutally representative of all of both it was it was both like mythical and beautiful and

magical but also very tied into the ethics of the Spartans and how absolutely brutal their world was and how they just accepted things in a way that just like, wow. Yeah, that's the thing that people are always like, you know, with me, I mean, they ask me like, what about the morality of the movie? What do you think of it? And I go like, Sparta is also another planet. Like if you, like we can't, we would not make it.

Right, right. Like to say like, oh yeah, I'm cool like with the Spartans. I mean, they would have chucked me off the cliff like day one, you know, it's not like a, it's a cool thing to imagine. Like you want to like say, yeah, I'm with the Spartans in this, but like, you know, they were brutal people. From the jump.

They were a tool. They were a tool. They were a tool. Like we have democracy maybe because they existed, but they weren't necessarily democratic. They didn't, there was no voting on whether or not we would like go in and die. Like that was just like what they wanted. You know, that was in their, like, you know,

in their basic genetic makeup or in their philosophical makeup was like, okay, a beautiful death. If I can get one of those, I'm good. Yeah. I'm good. And I won't give it to you, you gotta take it. Right. But yeah, that's like, I love that fast pender when he's like looking down and he says that whole thing

about like, you know what's awesome is that with all the world's armies, there's gotta be one guy down that fucking place that can kill me and do it right, you know? And they're like, are you serious? Like that's what's turning you on. You're excited about the fact that the guy that kills me might be down there?

Like that's crazy. But it's also, I think when we look at things like that and we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who lived so many years ago like that, we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who lived so many years ago like that. There's this understanding that human beings are capable of fitting into a bunch of different bizarre groups. Bunch of different strange cultures can rise and when you have a particularly barbaric time in history and you have this group of people in Athens

that are literally changing the world through democracy and through the Illusinian Mysteries and all the shit that they were doing, where people are traveling from all over the globe to come to this one spot, and then you got these fucking savages. These people are the savages of savages, the Spartans. They're like, if you think about it,

if someone says like, what kind of a warrior would you wanna be? If you're a little kid, I wanna be a Spartan. Yeah, of course. It's like they're all these sports teams have Spartans as they're like mascots. And to imagine that there was a group of people that existed, a culture that existed

that was completely warlike and had these tenants that were just unbendable. And from the time you were a child, they tested you. And if you fucked up, if you failed, if you fell apart, if you quit, you were chucked out. Yeah, the cryptae, like, they, you know, the whole thing, like where they would send you, like around seven, you'd go, in the agogia, you'd go like into the wilderness and you're basically living among other kids that were between like seven and 13 and you just were like wild. And they, and the, and the, the, the sort of elite of those groups were called the Kryptea

and the Kryptea would come down and just kill hellots whenever they wanted. Like they were encouraged The hellots were that slave the slave class that the Spartans sort of they maintain Spartan society And these guys these kids imagine like if you lived, you know and like in the hills You knew there was just like this 13 year old gang of 13 year olds that were gonna just come down and murder you at any moment I'm encouraged and they were encouraged to do it because they like, and also the hellots were fine. If the hellots killed them, that was fine because that meant that they weren't good enough anyway.

And then they would have this like, they did this ritual with this like table of cheese where like all these Spartan warriors would stand around the table and all the 13 year olds who were ready to like transition into becoming true Spartans, you'd have to like try and get and pull a piece of cheese off this stone table.

And the Spartan warriors who guarded the table could do anything to stop you. And it was just like just beating the crap out of these 13 year olds. And finally like, you know, if you got it, then you were given to a Spartan soldier who raised you. And basically the idea was that you, he was your lover, he was your teacher,

he was everything to you. Because the Spartans believed that, you know, really they believed that you, you would die for your brother if you were also lovers. You know, they thought that like, if you were confused about why we're fighting, fight for that guy. Who's not only your best buddy

But like there's like a story I guess where they were like the Spartan when the Persians first came they sent a scout over and that and they looked down at Dispartons right the night before the big battling goes he went back and he goes they were all like having sex with each other It was like a weird like we're like it's we're gonna be good and there was this one of the Spartans Kings was the old Spartan King was now Working with the Persians and said like oh no, we're fucked. They're saying goodbye to each other Do you know like you know what that means like we're completely screwed like they're gonna Like we're gonna get murdered tomorrow, you know like and they were like you're nuts You don't know you're talking about Like they're a bunch of softies.

Like let's go get them. What if that's the key to the, to being the, the absolute greatest army? You have to be gay. Yeah. You have to be gay. There's precedent. So I don't know. There is precedent.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like imagine if that was applied today. Yeah. It could be amazing. Yeah. But well, that would be a real problem.

We'll see. We'll see. The family structure. We'll see what they say. Yeah. Well, by the way, in the end, but that would be a real problem. We'll see. The family structure. We'll see what they say. Yeah, well, by the way, in the end, the Spartans had a real problem because they couldn't, we talk, there's this really crazy thing, like where on their wedding night,

they would have to shave the head of your bride and dress her like a man and she would fight you because there was no. That was the only way they got hard? That was the only way they could get it. Yeah, get her off because they needed like, unless they got hard. That was the only way they could get it. Yeah, get it all else because they needed like, unless they got like a bloody lip, you know, they were like, not, it wasn't gonna happen.

That's so insane. Isn't that crazy? That's so insane. So like you can imagine that it was hard to like keep the, you know, generate enough offspring, you know, with that, like you had an awesome army. Right. They were fucking the best,

but like you, as far as your procreation was going, it wasn't awesome. God imagine being a woman back then too. Well they had to run the whole show because basically the guys were just training. So they, all the commerce and like the deals they were making to like, you know, okay, we're gonna make a trade deal with this. That was all done by the women because like the guys were like,

no, we got, we got a fucking workout It's kind of awesome in some ways It's kind of crazy and it's kind of crazy that it requires you to be gay to be the greatest army because that's the one element How much do you love this person beside you? Yeah, you got to love them with yeah Yeah, I mean imagine the difference between you being with some random stranger on the street and a bunch of thugs attack the random stranger. How you would treat it versus if they attacked your wife. Yeah. Yeah. Do anything you'd fight. It's different. It's totally different. I did that in Rebel Moon. There's a bit where I put that, there's a part where Sophia's character says like that they basically say they encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy because when the politics of war became too abstract like okay take that beach or like climb that mountain.

A lot of times, you know, soldiers like why? Like there's no why, but like if you're, but if you have a lover who's next to you, who's your life and if they get killed or they're in danger, you're, you get, you know, you're gonna be back on it. You're back on it, yeah. And I think that it's an interesting, we don't, of course in our modern society,

we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war. We try not to anyway, we don't, of course, in our modern society, we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war. We try not to anyway. We seem not to. But, you know, like with using the relationship to create a bond. So it's an interesting... I mean, like, you know, there's camaraderie, brotherhood, of course. But they've replaced that aspect of it with technology.

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Which is interesting. And maybe that's good. Maybe it with technology. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Which is interesting. And maybe that's, maybe that's good. But maybe it is good. But I mean, I could imagine a world in the future where things go totally sideways, where we go back to that. Yeah, absolutely. We'll make a movie about it. I mean, that's, that is a possible future dystopian movie. Like a new Spartas, the Spartas of the, you know, 2059. Well, as soon as like, you know, what is that Einstein thing? You know, World War III has fought with nuclear weapons,

World War IV has fought with rocks. Yeah. Sticks and rocks, you know, so it's like a... Yeah. Well, if it's World War that does it, it's probably going to wipe out the whole race. But if it's something else, there could be a... Like everyone thinks of dystopia as being something man-created, which is real possible, but it's also possible we get hit by an asteroid.

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's more possible, I think. That's more likely. I think we could fuck up and nuke each other, but it's probably not going to happen, because people have been really good about it since 1947. Yeah, yeah, they've been pretty good. It's nice. Congrats.

Thank you. Yeah, good work, guys. You're a 45, I guess. Good work. But there's a giant difference between things that you can control and things you can't control through diplomacy and people Aging out it's possible that we could never have a nuclear war. It's not possible. We're not gonna get hit. Oh, yeah No, that's why I mean like I I'm very I very much encourage any NASA programs that are you know with their they got their telescopes pointed into the stars. They're like, oh here comes one

Yeah, let's see if we can go get it, you know, not yet. Not yet They're close they're close to be able to do that Neil deGrasse Tyson So they're about a decade away from being able to deflect asteroids. Yeah, this that'll be a big deal Yeah, but the hope is in that decade that we don't we don't get it or miss one because some of them come in from behind the Sun. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, they're like, oh yeah, we don't. Yeah, that's not cool. Well, then there's so much weirdness in space anyway. There's solar flares that could take out our whole grid

and kill all our communication systems. And they just random. And also the thing is like, we don't know, like say you had, say we had one of those like 300 years ago, which in cosmic time is not that long ago. It's nothing. It's nothing. And we didn't have the infrastructure to know that it would happen Like we were just a bunch of guys hanging out so like we were just like whoa That's a weird like the Aurora Borealis is pretty strong today. Yeah, that's cool

But now we're like oh shit our computers are fried. So it's like a whole different. Yeah It's also now takes are different We have the ability to go and look at the data that they had from a couple hundred years ago And say it appears that there was an event and the event if it happened today We would be fucked right and we did not say in this event. We were constructing all this equipment Yeah, we didn't well because we we because also the equipment got built it didn't get it got built Over time it was like a slow You know this made this and this made that and we relied on this so now we may at this

Yeah, we don't we built like our house of cards like pretty pretty pretty quickly too and the foundations the weakest part I really don't think there is a foundation I really don't think there is a foundation. Well, the foundation is what powers it, and it's all dependent upon a grid. And the grid is very vulnerable. Physically vulnerable. It's vulnerable to cyber attacks. I like that also. We were like, we thought we were geniuses by putting all that online. You know, like, oh yeah, we'll make the grid automated. No, don't do that. It's much better when there's just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, way better.

He's not gonna, you can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy. Yeah, guard that guy. Give him a lot of money. I do that. It's much better when there's just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, way better. He's not gonna, you can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy. Yeah, guard that guy. Give him a lot of money. I love that expression in the cloud. Bitch, where's this cloud?

That cloud is in fucking Cleveland. What are you talking about? It's not cool. There's no cloud. The cloud is not cool. That's such a lie. Stop calling it the cloud. That's a dirty lie.

Oh, it's in the cloud. Just go get it. How do you say that? Why don't you say it's in the stars? Why don't you just lie to me and say it's in lie. Oh, it's in the cloud. Just go get it. How do you say that? Why don't you say it's in the stars? Why don't you just lie to me and say it's in heaven? Tell me it's in heaven. Say it died. All my photos of my baby. We can resurrect that. Yeah, we can resurrect that.

My family, my dog, they're all in heaven. Print everything. I say print everything. That's my philosophy. Even the print everything thing, the real problem with us is all of our data is on hard drives. All of it. There's just paper books, hard drives, and that's it. So if something big happens, everything's useless and we start from scratch. Yeah, paper books are still kind of work, but.

Yeah. A lot of the modern innovations aren't probably even in paper books. A lot of them. Yeah. A lot of them. Well, it's funny because like the movies, for instance, one of the things is I always

archive a film print of all my movies because the digital storage of movies, if you ask anybody in, even in the business, they don't know whether in 10 years you'll be able to play a movie that you have now. Like whether you physically or what or how it degrades all those things. They don't know And so I'm like I that's why I make film prints because I'm like I know that like we keep it that we keep the film prints in the in the In this you know locker and you can at least pry him out and always have it But like I just think it's crazy that you we don't know we don't know whether movies will exist

It's a crazy thing. Don't worry about Zach. It's in the cloud Fucking in the cloud cheers. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I know I appreciate it. That's hilarious. It's in the cloud Why are you worried? Yeah, that's a dirty expression that they should they should ban that they love that expression though I know but it's a dirty lie. There's no cloud But it makes people feel safe. It makes them feel good because it's like the cloud is so reliable and so like and also a thing you don't need to worry about or understand. It's also beautiful. It's fluffy, it's in a blue sky. And all your info is safe in there. Yeah. Nothing can hurt it except for everything. It's just horseshit. It's total horseshit. It's so crazy. It's on hard drives.

It's so crazy. And if you had to start from scratch, imagine stumbling upon some ancient Egyptian hard drives and go, okay, where do we even begin? You can't play it. You can't play it. You might be looking at it and you don't know. Yeah. How is it encoded? What is the equipment I need to connect it to in order to, does it play out loud?

Do I see it? What is loud? Do I see it? What is this? Do I experience it in my head? It's like when you show your kid a vinyl record, right? Right. I show my kids a vinyl record and they're like, this is incredible. How does it work?

I'm like, well, the needle kind of bounces up and down on those grooves and makes a sound. Sounds like a song. And they're like, that's an insane technology. I'm like, no, that's not insane technology. Your iPod or your fucking phone, that's insane technology. That's a thing you can't, that doesn't even, you can't explain this to me. Okay.

I can, I just explained that to you. I love the fact that I'm in my car and like, like my daughter loves Melanie Martinez. So I have no idea what the song is. Tell me what the song is, and she'll tell me what the song is, and I can say, play Melanie Martinez, whatever the song is. And it just instantly plays it. Unbelievable. Instantly, and it's coming through the speakers,

and it sounds amazing, there's all this sound. That is incredible. It is incredible. It's bananas. Or you can say like play Johnny Cash Instantly instantly play hurt. Yeah, play her right now instantly instantly and it just starts playing it and you're like Oh God, why'd I say that? Yeah, why'd I say play hurt? Play God's gonna cut you down

What a world that we live in What a world that we live in. Instantly. By the way, I was just listening to that the other day. Is this going to get us in trouble with YouTube? Is it? Oh, sorry. I did want to show you this picture of all of Sandra's legs. If you harm it too well, it'll be okay. We were so much better off when we were trapped in our walled garden. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we got out and now it's now it's over

Yeah, it's it's fucking nuts man. It's nuts I think it's beautiful because I love the fact that you can tell me about something and I can get it instantly Like someone could say oh my god, you have to see that's Andrew's legs. Oh my god Like someone could say, oh my god, you have to see. That's Sandra's legs. Oh my god. That's insane. He looks like he's gonna die. Yeah, and he loves that.

That's particularly ridiculous. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's awesome. That guy has no body fat. Zero body fat. What is this body fat? The guy said to him, the guy at the gym said, are you 8% body fat?

He goes, if I was 8% body fat, I'd kill myself. That's so ridiculous. But that's his thing though. He literally is like, I'm in space. I'm like a space. You know how we get stuff from the space program? You know, we figure out how a razor works or like a shaving cream that keeps the hairs from flying. That's what he is to me.

He's like, I'm up here on the ragged edge so I can give you this information back. That's an interesting way of looking at it. here on the ragged edge so I can come, I could give you this information back. Like, Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it, right? Like you do learn health and wellness things from people that are on the fringes in the bodybuilding world. Yeah. And he's in his 60s. So it's like, you know, you're like, okay, this guy can have legs like that in his 60s.

So give me some, give me a little, give me a little, you know, of the, give me a little of the knowledge. And he's funny too because he's like, look, I don't have a family, I don't have kids. This is what I do. Jesus. You know, this is what I do. I just get jacked and I like research,

I test my body constantly. He's like on the ragged edge with every single like, you know, like he's always making these small adjustments. He goes, I ate a sesame seed and I saw that I was a little less ripped. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So ridiculous.

You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, oh, he's constantly like, you know, like, it's like he's on a razor's edge. Which I love. People like that are extremely... People are extremely super beneficial to any sort of extreme sport. Well, that's what I mean. Like extreme sport.

That's what I'm saying is that like you can... The little... That those little pieces of information They tell you about like oh, you know like whatever I'm taking this or like I thought about this and I experimented with that You're like, okay, like thanks. Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks. Thanks for being out there, right? You know, thanks for being the oxygen mask like up and on the stratosphere. Yeah the possessed mad genius. Yeah It's they by the way the world's made of that. Oh, yeah There's a guy out here in Austin, Texas. His name is John Donahue. He's

Widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu coach ever. Oh really? He's here. He's a professor He was a professor of philosophy at Columbia. That's cool And it was spending time as a bouncer wanted to learn learn martial arts, got into Jiu-Jitsu and became a Jiu-Jitsu fanatic to the point where he's teaching it and sleeping on the floor. Did he have an echo gift for it? Anyway, like it was like a double double.

Well, he's a very strong guy. He's very strong. He played rugby, but rugby destroyed his knee, fucked his body up, which kept him from ultimately competing. But he's just a crazy, mad genius. It doesn't give a fuck about anything but fighting. So all he's doing is teaching people, how to strangle people during the day, and then watching tape,

and reviewing techniques, and creating the next workout schedule. And they work out 365 days a year. 365 days a year. And his number one student is Gordon Ryan, who's widely considered to be the greatest Jiu-Jitsu athlete of all time without question. That's his belt up there. The Abu Dhabi belt. When you want Abu Dhabi. But he's his number one student. And they just train 365 days a year. They take no days off Christmas fuck you the birthday fuck you And it's just you've got days where you don't train as hard are you worn out?

Well, you're not gonna train as hard today. Yeah, it looks like you're saying like we yeah Like you understand the but like at that point you're in the rhythm. You understand your body You know like okay. I'm hurt today. I know how to do this, but we're always learning. We're always gonna we're not gonna stop learning We're not gonna stop understand. That's the one thing that's crazy about YouTube too is that this idea that there's a resource You know like it used to be to find a technique or to learn something you have to go to the guy's house Fucking sleep on his porch. Yeah, he's not gonna fucking train you He's gonna slap you around like whatever we're now like these kids today They get like a lot of their shit the basic shit

They they can they're like I'm learning this I can learn something that I had no access to absolutely zero access 100% credible. I have a folder on my phone. That's all jujitsu moves that I didn't know existed And I just watched it just was how's he how's he doing that left leg in oh he went with the right arm Wow, and then I'll stand into my friend Eddie Bravo's a jujitsu instructor I'll go is this legit and he goes I'm gonna try this tonight We'll text each other back and forth. So we're like it's a constant new thing. Sure. There's the basics put in the workshop But let's see what happens. Yeah kid could be Just all you need is a computer that connects to the internet and a friend and

You can get good at jujitsu. Yeah, it's better to have private instruction Of course, it's better to have a coach who you know when you're teaching your classes You've got to make sure this arm is protected and keep this here And you have to have the defense you have to put your hand on the hip if you don't have something like that's gonna Take you longer to figure it out. But if you are diligent and you're really dedicated and you have a fucking YouTube connection, you can get good at jiu-jitsu. Yeah, no, I think that's true.

You just have to go to the mountains. That's true, well that's what I mean. And that's true of a lot, that's true of a lot of things now. Like, look, I just, I had this like, recently I had this crazy Fortnite addiction right now. Oh no! I could get it! I started playing Fortnite with my son, who's 10, and I was like, yeah, I started playing I started playing fortnight with my son who's 10 and he was like now he tapped out immediately

And I was like well you should come back cuz I'm just this is kind of cool So I'm playing and then like I you know three months later. I'm like what the fuck does matter with me? Yeah, but my wife is like you've got to stop. I am done with this. I am done She's like I'm so done this. I am done. You and I are the same thing. I go, I'm so, she's like, I'm so done. You need another fucking hobby. Right? And so she's like, I bought you some clay, right? Oh.

And so I started doing some pottery, right? And that's where I was like, oh, YouTube is insane. Like, cause I just in like three weeks I had done like all. So now she's like every, every search engine is like hand-built pottery, like glazing, firing kills. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, so I have like-

Much more productive. It's much more, by the way, I get something at the end. Like you feel better. I feel so much better. The feeling that you give me when you play video games for 12 hours in a row, you feel terrible when it's over. You feel sick to your stomach. It's literally too like, and you have something good happening, you're like, yeah, like I'm

like, yeah, like I'm like fuck. Yes And my wife I look over and my wife is like in the doorway going like What's wrong? Are you serious? You're a grown-ass man. You not be making a movie right now? Or like writing something or doing something well It's important for people to know that even people who are successful movie makers are still gonna get addicted to those goddamn things They're heroin. They're too good. They're too good. They're so good. They're so well-made. We had a giant quake problem and I had a giant quake problem for years and I quit and I quit cold turkey when I realized it was like just I was playing

8-10 hours a day. You can't see the hours. That's what does it when you see the hours when you see like a total number of hours That you've played you're like, okay. I'm, I, what could I've, I could've written a novel. I could've done so much. I could've done so much. So I stopped, but then when we had a new studio in Los Angeles, we had a big warehouse and we said, let's put a fucking LAN in here. So we put a local area network and bought some gaming computers and set it up for Quake and instantly I was a junkie again. Scratch in my face.

I was fucking every day. We were playing three, four hours a day. It was nuts. It was nuts. See? It just gets right into your, it's too good. It's too good. They're good at it.

Well, I saw that you're, like, you're racing simulator. Racing simulator is too good. I haven't even hopped on that yet. We've had it for over a week. The problem with it is it it's to it's like racing Yeah, it's like the one thing I did like I saw this the other day where they had the form one of the F1 guys went against like some

Some kid mm-hmm and he beat him and I was like that makes me happy on the racing Simulator, yeah, and I was like that made me happy well only just because You know you want that skill, you want in your mind that skill set to translate. Yes. Like you're like, see? I was watching this thing on Formula One drivers, like all the different things that they have to be able to do.

Their response time is so much faster than anybody else's. They had this thing where they had the lights and the lights go off. You have to touch the light when it goes off. And the Formula One race car drivers were like off the charts the charts. Oh really and they all have crazy thick necks Oh, yeah from because it's just And also the helmet's not light, you know, it's like a serious fucking serious piece of weight up Yeah, bouncing your head around now, it's crazy whipping around I'm sure you've seen the comparison between a GT3 car and then a formula One car on the same track? No, no, it's wild.

The GT3 car looks amazing and then the Formula One car like, no way, that's not real. Is this real time? Oh, as far as like being able to stick to the track where like... It's so much faster. It's so much faster. It's so much faster and the time that you have, watch this. So on the left side you have the GT3 cars. So these are just GT3 cars?

No. That's the... Oh, the right is the GT3 car. So these are just GT3 cars. That's the... The right is the GT3 car, the left is the Formula One car. Look how much faster they go. It's gone. They're fucking insane. I mean, they're so fast and the way they hug, I went to the Coda, the Formula One race out here. It's insane to see it live. To, see it live. You really appreciate it She's like, oh my god, my daughter will is addicted to forming the one She's like I sent her down two years ago to it and it was like

Like, you know, look at that That sound is amazing Yeah, like the GT3 look at they're not even moving in comparison. Yeah, it's not even close. Yeah, and she, I sent it out because at the time Formula One was wanting me to, we were gonna do a film, I was gonna do like a commercial for them, you know, that I, and I was in the middle of pitching them and they were like, oh, can we send you down to Austin to the race? And I said, you know, I can't because I'm in the middle of this thing,

but you can send my daughter. And Will was like, she had like pit access. She was like losing her mind. She's calling me every five minutes going like, are you insane? Look at, there's, there's like, you know, Hamilton, I can't believe she's right there. I was like, okay, calm down, don't be a groupie. I like, I want you to like, she has like a tattoo

of like Formula One, like a car. Yeah, she's really into it. Well, I know that Netflix series out here in America made it way more popular in America. Blew it out, blew it out. Because it didn't make any sense that it was so popular worldwide, but not popular in a place that's most obsessed with cars Yeah, makes no sense

You feel like we would just be like drinking the Kool-Aid of that so hard Well, all our thing is just going around a circle real quick like our thing is so silly in comparison like NASCAR Yeah, NASCAR so silly it's crazy and you think that like we would dig like this kind of all the turns and like the insane technology It's like feels like it's right on our wheelhouse and maybe and I think it can be well it turns out it is it's just got a Take you know and something like it has something like a Netflix special has to happen for it It's like what happened with the UFC with the ultimate fighter the FC was always like crazy exciting But then the ultimate fighter put it on television, everybody's like, wow, this is nuts.

And you get to like invest in a personality. Yes. You know, that's, I think that's in the end, Americans love that they want to hook on to someone and ride them, you know, through the whole thing. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's the fun. They want to get connected to that person

and root for them and feel the journey, especially the ultimate fighter was such a brilliant idea because you get these guys to live in a house together And then they're gonna beat the fuck out of each other And they know they know they're gonna have to fight so there's a psychological warfare going on There's like chest puffing and there's so much weird shit happening. Yeah, it's by the way It's a great show and also because like the drama if you have fighting and drama together. Yeah, it's by the way, it's a great show. And also because like the drama, if you have fighting and drama together, it's kind of like an amazing combination. You can't look away.

And it's real fighting. And it's absolutely real fighting. Yeah, like you know, it's not like fucking around. And these guys are fighters. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing. It's not like you got a bunch of schmucks and said, okay, you guys get in a ring and sort of see what happens.

Yeah. Like these guys suddenly are like. And guys have gone from that show to become world champions. Absolutely, which is wild That's cool. Yeah, that's why you and you know and you're like, oh, yeah I saw them when they were when they were just like Scrapping around the house, you know, it's it's cool to see him like rise like that. It's a it's it's it's it's it's an amazing show It's an amazing show. It's cool. Well, there's a few things like that, like Formula One racing and fighting, that it just has to get in front of enough eyes. It's just we have these things that we've always like baseball that's always been around. If you brought baseball out today, baseball doesn't have a chance on hell. No chance.

No chance. It's zero chance. Golf. No chance. I think golf would still make it. Well, also because it's a ludicrous concept golf That's what I love about it's like and I you know, I'm an okay golfer. I've done a lot of golf commercials My dad's a scratch golfer. He's an amazing dog commercials Well, yeah back in the day, you know like because when I got out of college I did like ten years of of TV commercials, you know And every day like all I did all I've done every all the brands every like I've done a bunch of Super Bowl spots

I did the they like Clydesdale 9-11 tribute spot Like there's a lot of all these kind of for me that were all these like kind of touchstones, but along the way I Did like you know PGA. I did titleist I did like all these like you know I have a tour bag like in storage that says like Zach Daddy Snyder on it like I'm like or back yeah, so but but like the guys like you see these like and I mean they are like Phil Mickelson is like an insane Like he he does this trick where you stand with your hands like this, you know

And then he's behind you with this pitching wedge and he takes a full swing and cuts it. If he skulls it, it's gonna crack you in the back of the skull, but it goes over your head and lands in your hands, right? What? I suppose it's standing right in front of you. I haven't seen the landing in hands, but this is the kind of video. Yeah right he's gonna do it like oh my god see look at where see that yeah it's like that's the bridge I did a spot with Phil I did a spot with him where he I did a spot for him I think it was it was for it was with David Robinson for the PGA tour and he was sick. He had like a hundred degree temperature and like what it was was basically we did,

they said these guys are good. It was the name of the campaign and it was like all these football players and like golf would be, it was a ludicrous idea, golf would be in these scenarios and this was basketball. It was like one second left, you know, up Phil Mickelson comes in to play this basketball game. They're

going to play with a golf ball and they throw him the ball. The ref throws the golf ball to him and he catches the ball on his, on the blade of his pitching wedge, traps it on the ground and then hits, picks it off the, the, the, the, the gym floor, you know, and the ball flies up and then David Robinson dunks it. That was the commercial. So he's sick and he's like, Zach, I don't know, man. Oh, also we did a version of it where we had made the floor bout of balsa wood so he could take a divot.

Oh, and then the PGA was like, well, we don't want to look like it's, they were kind of mad because they were like, we don't want to look like we're destroying property I was like, come on guys. It's like cool. It's cool that he digs the floor up, right? They can fix wood. Yeah It's also not real, you know, like you can't you can't actually do that. That's funny Yeah, it was cool. They were that sensitive but like Phil comes out and he's like, sorry, man I'm sick like I don't know like I go Well, okay, let's just try you know do what you can and like it'll only be a couple shots And so he's like I'll do the best I can so you know he threw on the ball and he's he just like Cuts it in the air and you know like he like cuts it in the air and they've trump traps it with his club

I'm like holy shit, and he's like how's that? I'm like how's that? He was like I'm sorry, I'm like I don's that? I was like, fucking unbelievable. He was like, I'm sorry. I'm like, I don't know what you would do different. Like it's so crazy. So. It's interesting when you see wizardry at that level. Like the technique and the perfection of it at that level. It's so incredible you're like, fuck.

I didn't even play golf and I could appreciate it. Yeah, like John Daly too. Like we had, I did a spot with John Daly too. And he was like, he's a mid, he was like, comes out, you know? And I guess the tournament before the one we had done, before the shoot that we did, we were doing it in Kaminsky Park in Chicago, right? And he was, the idea on that one was like,

he's, you know, top of the ninth, two outs, the down by three bases loaded, whatever, whatever, you know, and the pitcher, here comes John Daley, right? And so what we did was, so the idea was like, we had this, and the pitcher, here comes John Daley, right? And so what we did was, so the idea was like we had this like minor league pitcher was supposed to throw a pitch and he's, you know, we did it with visual effects. He takes the ball of the air.

So what we did was we got this super long tee, right? And we put the ball on it. And I was like, John, do you think you can, can you hit a drive with a two foot tee? Like that sounds crazy. He's like, ah, if I can, no problem. But like when he came out, he was mad because he had picked up his ball.

Like, you know, he got fined by the PGA. If you pick up your ball halfway through the tournament, you can't just leave. They don't like that. And I guess he was having a bad round. And so he just said, fuck it. And he just picked up his ball and walked off. And they were like, so they find him.

And he was super mad that he got fined. And so he goes, he goes, I'm gonna fuck up that jumbo tron. And I was like, I was like, John, I go, that's me. I'll have to pay for it. It's not the PGA. And then he was like, he's like, oh man, I'm so sorry. Like, okay, I won't hit it. I didn't know.

Like I thought, you know, he's like the sweetest guy. And then he just like He just cranks this You he's like our Babe Ruth like he Literally, I've done a bunch of spots with him You know like on his white like on his backswing the club head is pointing down at the ground because he's so twisted And then he just uncoils and it's just Unbelievable the amount of power that the guy and he hits the ball out of the stadium and it goes literally We had PAs in the parking lot and they're like the ball just goes over their heads and like into the freeway You know, he's just a frickin Jamie. Do you have that video that I sent you recently of that guy?

This there's this fucking guy who does this step in move. Oh right, sure, like the Happy Gilroy? Well, not quite that. Not quite that, but with technique. And it's perfect, and the drive is insane, and the torque is insane. Again, this is coming from someone who doesn't know. Jack shit about golf.

Look at this kid. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. I mean, Jesus. That is fucking insane. The fact that he can actually,

with that amount of backswing, the fact that he can actually hit the ball cleanly is unbelievable. Is he from, is that Chinese? I don't know about, I don't know. Chinese looks like Japanese to me is it's a Japanese writing is Japanese so he's Japanese isn't it there's a lot of I mean it's very popular in Japan yeah his name is Japanese yeah but that's unbelievable fucking technique is mad let me hear that again because the sound

is awesome that's where they're at could be, there's balls that do that. Bro, I don't give a fuck what does that. Look at where it ends. The club ends in front of his face, past his face. There's left shoulder. It's so much whip on the, on the. It's amazing. That's crazy, but yeah, it's fun.

That's wild. It was fun actually, that time in my life, traveling around and doing all those TV commercials all over the world Like I had a crew of guys. It was like me and my boys And we would just like literally go one job Papua New Guinea one job Germany one job Mexico one job Iceland like over and we were just on the road Mexico, one job Iceland, like over and we were just on the road

completely out of our minds and it was just you know and like whatever product we'd be like, okay I'd be pitching the guys be like, what are we doing next? I'm like, I gotta get on a call, like I have an agency and I get on the call in the hotel room and I pitch them and I'd be like be out of my mind I don't know what I'm saying and I'd come out and they'd be like, how'd it go? And I think I got it and they were like, how did you did you nail it? I was like, yeah, I told them it's going to be like low angles and slow motion and it's fucking cool and they were like, okay, cool, let's go. And it was just this, we were just in this machine and frankly, I learned everything.

Like I spent 10 years, you know, like the 10,000 hours thing. It literally, I spent 10 years with every production problem. Cause I was a director of photography. I was the DP and the director and you know, we were a pretty small show, you know, but we had giant clients, anything you can think of. So then when I went to make a movie, it wasn't like there was no, there was no thing I hadn't seen, you know,

it wasn't like I stepped on a set. Like, oh, I'm a first-time director. Everyone's like, oh, this guy's a first-time director. Like, what's he gonna say? And I'll be like, there was like, the tools were my tools, you know what I mean? Like, I was very comfortable with the tool set that I had in front of me.

Like, more so than I probably should have been. You know, I remember Matt Leigh Annetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was like halfway through the thing, he's like, you know, you know what you're doing. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what you're doing. Like, he goes, they can't fire you now.

Because like we were halfway through, because like I was so diligent, like on my first movie, I was so scared. You know, Scott Stuber, who was the executive at Netflix, who was my executive on Army of the Dead, he was the one that hired me to do Dawn. And I was so, I wanted to do such a, like I wanted to be so conscientious.

And I was so scared of like going over budget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that That like Matt Leigh and Eddie at one point was like look man like you got to just fuck it You know you're it's your make it cool now Don't give a fuck just make it do what you think and it was such great advice because I think the movies edge And all the coolness in the movie and the man comes around and all that like weirdness, the whole like montage with the Richard Cheese song in the middle, that was all just me going, all right, good. Thanks Matt.

I'm going to just go. And he goes, good. Because otherwise he goes, you're just going to make a movie that this zombie movie is going to disappear. You know, unless you fucking add your sauce. Yeah, go. You've got to add your sauce. Because he goes, otherwise it's like, look, another zombie movie. gonna disappear. You know, unless you fucking... Add your sauce. Yeah, go, you gotta add your sauce. Cause he goes, otherwise it's like, look, another zombie movie, like who cares?

Like he goes, you, he goes, I know you know what's cool. Well, you made it fun. I think that that was the whole thing. For me, it was like, how do you make a B movie that's self-aware that it's a B movie, right? And in that self-awareness, it lets you off the hook to enjoy it because you can still be smart like you deconstructed the Genre you because like I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre like I'm a genre filmmaker I always say to everybody like people like what kind of I'm a genre filmmaker like and that is to say that like in

Genre though you can explore like philosophy you can explore Mythology especially which is like myth is like my main Like we make myth modern myth movies are modern myth superhero movies are modern myth Like is it not the same when you say? Like we have Superman right and? And Batman or whatever. Are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about like how we should live. You know, like you say Superman,

is he not like an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us, like all the fucking shit that we run up against, whether it be war or like class struggle or whether it be you know, you know inter relationships between different countries Does Superman not appear in answer

To us primitive brains trying to figure out what the where we are like you make a guy like Superman so he can answer some of those questions He can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of The insanity that is like you know the the problems of the 20th century and I think in Batman in the same way He's an answer to like urban. What is urban the urban jungle needs a myth you know just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient you know those all like in those days we'd say like why is the volcano erupting right but now we say because we didn't know you know we're just like I guess it's the gods are mad you know right and but now we have Now the problem is like why am I?

Why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever? You know, so we need an answer We need an additional answer and I think that's what and that's what I've always and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those Comments, you know, and I think and you know look The funny thing about you know What I always find interesting, you know, the thing that I always find fascinating about sort of the movies I've made

and how they've landed on pop culture is that like, I remember like in the last article, it was like, it said, Zack Snyder love him or hate him, right? Like, and I'm like, hate him? Like what? I don't understand. Like what? It's just, it's a movie, you know? Like it's not, I mean, you look at Rebel Moon don't understand like what it's just it's a movie

You know like it's not I mean you look at rebel moon. You're like, okay. Well, there's not a lot. It's not it's not It's not it's not weird enough. It's not offensive enough to hate him for right in my opinion I'll find a reason to hate today. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and to reason, to hate today. Oh yeah. Yeah. And 99% of those people also hate themselves. That's exactly what's going on. And when people are very hateful over art, you can like it, you don't like it.

There's a lot of stuff I don't like. I have no issue with you not liking the movie. That's not the question. Who cares? Who cares? The thing is like, you would personalize, you'd hate me because I'm like, I don't understand that. I mean look.

Because you're unreasonably successful. That's how they feel. That's what happens with people. You've done so many hit movies like, fuck this guy. People compare themselves to someone like yourself that's been so successful and they get angry. That's why you can't read comments. No, that's why you can't read comments Yeah, I know that's why you can never come in every comments are you know, they're essentially

Long-form comments or what a lot of articles are yeah, it's the same thing exactly It's these people that are film snobs that get you know very pretentious about certain aspects of Movie-making and decide that their way is the only way like listen. I like the Barbie movie. Okay. I found it enjoyable awesome I went with my daughters and I had a good mindset. I said, let me just enjoy this movie Sure, not be like what the fuck is this man didn't fuck this I just said it was fun movie. Yeah, it didn't offend me.. I laughed a bunch of times. I thought it was fun. And I went online and saw so many people angry about that fucking movie. And it was all men.

Yeah. As it would be. Listen, first, you're out of your fucking mind if you go to a Taylor Swift concert and you expect to see AC DC. You're out of your fucking mind. You're going to a Taylor Swift concert. You know what it is. So if you go to see the Barbie movie, you know what it is. Why you mad? Yeah, you know what like were you were you shocked like it's literally Barbie girls doll. Yeah, what did you think was gonna happen in it also and I by the way? I love the movie and I'm actually Lampooned in that film. There's a line in the movie that says, I feel like I was in a dream where all I cared about was the Zack Snyder Cut of Justice League.

That is a line in that movie. That's hilarious. Literally. And I'm like, that's awesome. I think that I was like, okay, my wife was like, she goes, that's cool, right? Like, that's cool. They came after you. I was like, that's 100% cool. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. It was, but it's interesting to see when there's like such a strong reaction to certain things.

And especially amongst like really wild hardcore fans because there's hardcore like it's pretty like I know yeah you well you also face it because you you cover these genres you cover these subjects that are iconic Superman Batman I mean just those alone no no and by the way that's a lifestyle choice for a lot of people it's not a of people. It's not a movie. Right. Right. It's not a movie.

It's not like, if I made a romantic comedy, you'd be like, okay, that was fun. Right. Like, the people who love, and by the way, I love that they feel this passionately. I'm not in no way would I criticize that because I feel I live the same life, right? Because like, for me like it's yeah for me

It's morning noon and night, but so for those guys It's not just a movie and so you have to on some on some level you have to acknowledge that The they this is their religion, you know, and they feel strongly about it And by the way, the truth is it's my religion too, you know, so it my religion too. So it's a, I tend to get in trouble because of my, I do take a deconstructivist point of view because of Dark Knight Returns, because of Watchmen. Those, if you've read those two comics,

it's hard to go back to like, you wanna, and it's because I care that I wanna take them apart. Like I want Batman, like people are always like, you wanna, and it's because I care that I wanna take them apart. Like I want Batman, like people are always like, well Batman, Batman can't kill, right? So Batman can't kill his cannon. And I'm like, okay, well the first thing I wanna do when you say that, is I wanna see what happens.

And they go like, well don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone I'm like well that's just like you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that You know if he does do that. What does that mean? What is it? What is it? What does it tell you about does he stand up to it? Can he survive that? Right as a as a God as God. Can Batman survive that? I never thought that that was Ken and that Batman can't kill.

Well, for a lot of people it is. It seems ridiculous given the circumstances in which he operates. And all the weapons he has. Don't read the comments right now. Don't read the comments. It seems ridiculous. It's well I mean and you know there's this huge like there's so in Dark Knight Returns There's a scene Where and I copied it kind of in Batman vs. Superman where he grabs the M60 He busted the wall and he grabs the end 60 and he's like the guys like

In the comic book. He's like got this kid the guys like, in the comic book, he's like got this kid. The mutant has this kid with a gun to his head and he's like, I'll kill him, I swear I'll do it. And Batman says, I believe you. And he shoots him straight in the head because it's like a no-win scenario. It's like the Kobayashi Maru of, you know the Kobayashi Maru is that in Star Trek,

it's that test they put Kirk through where there's a no-win, right? Because they wanna see how you'll react Right so they say okay We're gonna make a we're gonna make a scenario a test scenario where you don't win where there's no way to win and In that situation we find out what you would do in a no win situation because if you're gonna be the commander of this spaceship you have to you're gonna be in situations where you know, it's or death, and especially when there's no tricking it, right? There's no tricking death in this case.

And the famous thing with Captain Kirk is he went and hacked the machine and made it so there was a solution. And so that was his response to the no win situation was create a scenario where he wins, which is a cool character, you know, that's a cool character move. But that's kind of how I felt. That's what they would say, don't do that to Batman. Don't put him in a no win situation because we don't want to see him lose. Like we can't see him lose.

He has to maintain this God like status. And that's what the cool thing about Frank Miller. Frank Miller said, fuck it, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna, I want to see who this guy really, like if a guy, so you're saying to me that I've got a gun to this kid's head, you're Batman. I'm gonna, there's no move, there's no trick, there's no throwing the bat-a-ring, there's no trick. There's no throwing the battering. There's no a dust ball to distract me Like I I've just got to pull the trigger and I kill this kid So you're saying in that scenario Batman What Batman supposed to do right right? Yeah, he's gonna

Lay down his gun. What's he gonna do like it's the guy says to him. I'll do it. I swear it I believe you is perfect. Yeah, I believe you You know, so I'm just like That's where like Frank deacons takes Batman and just tears him in half Yeah, and you've got to now come out the other side of that and Batman is still the hero Batman still Does the right thing he maintains his code his f he doesn't change But like our perception of him changes and I think that's like a that's the I and I have run a fowl of But but a lot of the fandom who have I feel like who have like

Got into the same place I have with the characters where they need to test them to like and I feel like the characters it's been my experience that the characters have not let us down like these myths have not let us down they have they've made they you put them to the ragged edge into that scenario and they come out the other side and you're like fuck yeah there's a reason why Superman is Superman you know what I mean yeah there's a re like he can handle it he can fucking take it because he's so iconic like you see like the red ass you go anywhere in the world With that Superman t-shirt on anywhere and you say to any kid like what's this? So oh that's Superman. Yeah exactly Like you know that means something that's like fucking cool. Well, not only that it's one of our first ever superheroes literally Yeah, I mean just think of the name. It's so unoriginal Superman Well, not only that, it's one of our first ever superheroes. Literally. Yeah.

I mean, just think of the name. It's so unoriginal. Superman. It's the most... You couldn't think of that today. That's not a... It's so ridiculous. You can't do that today.

I know. If you tried to come up with a Superman today, I'd have been a shut the fuck up. Superman? That's horrible. That's your guy? Yeah. You know? Come on, man.

We've got so many different interesting characters out there. That's why the Trinity Superman Batman Wonder Woman are so powerful because they're literally Obviously the origin Concept right Wonder Woman literally yeah Batman Batman is the only anomaly because he's like a Batman. What does that mean? What does he doesn't even have powers? Yeah, he's just like a he's half bad like what is that just got a lot of money? Yeah, he's got a lot of money. Yeah. That was like my favorite thing we did in Justice League where Bruce says that line about like when Flash says like, what's your power?

And he's like, I'm rich. I always thought that was cool. Kind of crazy that no one decided to genetically experiment on a Batman. Like make a Batman. For another version of Batman Like take a guy and hit him with some Wolverine juice or whatever the fuck Oh other animals just turn him into a superhero. Yeah instead of have him just be a rich guy give him some crazy genetic Mutations something that they do to him that turns him into something

But I think that and that that is the thing, I mean, not to that extent, but that's the thing that Frank does. And that's the reason why I wanted Affleck, because like to me, Batman's a big dude, right? Affleck's 6'4", you know? He's like a legit big dude. And you know, like in the shoes, the shoes, the boots are like two inches.

So like, he's literally almost like, you know, 6'6", in the costume. Like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of, I know, six six in the in the costume Like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of I mean we put some muscle on him And then there's a muscle suit under the suit and he's like it's a he's like Legitimately a scary looking thing, you know, he's just like standing there You're like holy shit like dude the chin is so insane in that cowl. I mean, look at him. He's like, you know, he's, I took that picture by the way. You know, he's like legitimately,

like that's Batman to me. I mean, I don't know like what, you know- Christian Bale was a great Batman. He's a great Batman, but he's still like, you know, you know, 5'10". You know, it's cool. I mean, not to be, I'm not- Yeah, no, no, it does mean cool. I mean not to be I'm not

Mean so I'm not being rude Giant in the car in in some of the like in in dark night returns and in in Frank's comics and like you know in the classics He's pretty big dude, you know, he's always been pretty thick in dark night returns If you look at dark night returns, you know like he's did there's a line like where he's trying to hold someone's gun And his finger can't get in the trigger guard because he's so big, you know, like like where he's like, you know, I like things like that like where you're just like, he's like, he has this this genetic like gift of just being this big fucking dude and other than that, you know, his parents were murdered in front of him and he's also like a billionaire.

So like that weird, like you, you want it to not be just one of those things, right? It needs to be all of them in order for him to really, to do what he can do. But if somebody really wanted to fuck around with the genre today, if he had all that money, wouldn't he invest in some wild genetic engineering that turns him into an actual superhero. Yeah, so it's what I think that that That's the real that's the fun of it. Yeah, like they don't like

Not just there you wish it was there I'm talking something way crazy Well, it's funny because like I did that scene like there's that scene I think it's it I don't think it's in the, it might be in the theatrical, but it's definitely in the director's cut where like he's wakes up and there's some chicken in the bed with him that from the night before. Cause like I always say like, you know, Batman fucks to forget for sure. You know, Batman's a drunk for sure. You know, because like he has huge trauma. Right. Like, and I think that like, you know, you wonder why he's a playboy. It's cause like, you know, like anybody, like that's a common, you know, fucking forget

is a common, that's a real thing. That's a way to deal with trauma. You know, and I think that like, I have that, there's that bit, he like wakes up and there's like just painkillers on his bedside table and he's just like pops him and drinks him wine. I'm just like, you know, to me, that's, that's like, that's like Batman. You know, like he's got a maple thorn up above the bed. He's got his glass house and he's just like, he has an aesthetic that's like clean, but like that's all he does. That's like his life, you know, like he.

The thing about Batman, the modern versions of Batman, the Miller Batman, your Batman's what what's interesting is that now? superheroes of these flawed like very Very distressed characters sure sure like the watchman is a group the best example They're all watchmen is all trauma. It's all trauma and it's they're all crazy They're completely crazy, and it's it's such a good mood. Why the fuck was there never a watchman too? Well, because, you know, frankly, the comic book doesn't exist.

For me, that's why there wasn't. I just was like, the thing that's awesome about also that, it's one of those things like when you start to really, you know, look at like Night Owl, not being able to get it up because he's not in his costume. Like that's just a cool, to me that's just like a, that's like pure, that's like, that's boiling down superhero to its fucking purest thing. I don't get turned on unless I like, I gotta go out,

fucking save some people, do some crime fighting and now I'm fucking ready to go. You know, like that to me was like, that was like, that as a superhero movie as a concept took a long time to like, like land with the boys or like these other kind of superheroes. Now it's cool to deconstruct superheroes. It's kind of fun. Everyone's having a good time with it. And I was doing it whatever almost, you know, 15 years ago and You know, it just I just don't think superheroes were as deep in the culture as they are now

We're like all those things with land, you know, like all that deconstructive Kind of work that we were doing at the time was really in reference to comic books not comic book movies because Watchman was written in response to the comic book industry, not necessarily, comic book movies didn't exist when the book was written. Right, right. So it's a very much, Alan Moore was very much obsessed

with the morality of comic book heroes within comic books. And so, and he just took an adult look at it. You know, he's a smart genius, a fucking pure genius. Well, that was the thing that people figured out along the way with graphic novels as well, was that comic books aren't just a thing that children like. You know, I was a giant comic book fanatic when I was a kid,

and I wanted to be a comic book illustrator. That's what I wanted to do. Oh, cool. Oh, that's awesome. And I had one bad high school art teacher and it ruined it for me. Fucking guy. Fucking guy.

He ruined it for my friend John DeVore, who was the most talented guy in the class. When I found out that he gave him an F, I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? This guy was so talented. Wow. And he was like, I was pretty good. And he was quite a bit better than me.

And then there was this other guy named Kevin, who in our class was also like really good and all of us wanted to be comic book artists and I was really into the more adult versions of it like there was some Amazing like horror genre comic books back in the day like like Creepy and Eerie, that have these incredible like Frazetta covers on the, have you ever seen Creepy and Eerie? Sure, of course. Yeah, God, love those things. I'll tell you my, sorry, go ahead and finish your, No, no, go ahead.

But you want, oh, so what I was gonna say was that like, I was obsessed with growing up this comic book called Heavy Metal. Yes. And Heavy Metal is like my thing. Basically what happened was my mom, I had bought, I was like 13 or whatever, and I bought, maybe 12 even,

I bought a copy of Heavy Metal, whoever sold it to me. Cause you know what it says, adult illustrated fantasy magazine, right underneath, like in kind of small letters, but it's there. Right. I would cover it with my thumb when my mom was around. But she, one Christmas, got me a subscription

to Heavy Metal. Did she know? She didn't know. She just thought it was a cool comic book. And I didn't say anything, of course. And that really, that comic book, and when you see the R rated version of Rebel Moon when it comes out

Because basically the deal I made with Netflix was they said I Wrote the script and I said this is the script. I want to make and they said that is insane And I said yeah, but it's like it's a heavy. It's like heavy metal But like but like in you know live action. Yeah, and they were like yeah Is there any way it could be PG-13? And I was like, well, if it's PG-13, it kind of misses the whole point a little bit. But I can imagine that for a mass audience

and for like, viewership, that seems like the smart way to go. I go, what about this? What if we make, if I take this script, I make you a PG-13 version that you can just blast into the world and hopefully many people see it as possible. And then you let me, as a bonus, you just let me make this version exactly as I think. And they were like, okay, that sounds cool.

So coming at the end of the summer, you'll see my two three hour versions of Rebel Moon that are like hard R-rated, the hardest stuff. Which you wanted to do. Which I exactly wanted to do. So they said, yeah, go do that. And so they were able, because normally when I do this, directors cuts, you know, which is a thing now I'm weirdly famous for, the's cuts were always an answer to a thing that the studio made me do, right? Like, here's my movie. They're like, yeah, we really want

you to cut these parts out because they're not cool. They're like, the movie's too long or the movie's too violent or whatever. And I would be like, wow, really? Because I really think that's kind of the why of the movie. And they'd be like, no, it's really important. The focus groups told us that they don't like that so take it out So I take it out But then I'd go like you know I'd go over to home video right across the street and I'd be like hey guys You want another movie to release because I got the shit and they'd be like absolutely whatever you say because you know at that time There was a huge market for directors. It gave them a second kick at the can in home video, right?

So they would be like that's so cool We get a whole other movie to market that like never before seen footage, you know it just feels like a cool thing and so That was how I've always done my directors cuz always as a response to what the studio was telling me couldn't be in the movie Because I never planned I would always go into it like bright eye like, oh, everyone's going to love this. It's clearly, you know, the studio, when, when you see my cut, you're going to think it's amazing.

And they would like look at it and go like, bro, like that's no, like this too much. And so that's what, that's where my directors cuts kind of as a, just as a practice were born, you know, it was born out of that, me needing to show the world what I intended originally. And so, you know, by the time, now that I've got to Netflix with this Rebel Moon movie,

and my sort of the mythology around my director's cuts was kind of a thing, especially with Justice League as you can imagine They were like, you know what? Why don't we do a directors cut as part of the process rather than as a response to it? And I was like, that's really smart like that's really cool because in a lot of ways I totally get the economics of making a PG-13 version of this insane genre movie because what I'm asking, you know, from a budgetary standpoint is high for like a boutique space movie that's like, you know, a heavy metal comic, you know, that's like a...

People who love that will love it more than anything else, right? If I can land that, they'll think it's the coolest thing ever. But like for a mass audience, it might not be exactly what you would imagine. So I'm like, I can do both. And that's kind of what, and that's kind of where I, and that's why when you see the R-rated version of Rebel Moon, you're like, fuck, this is heavy metal.

I come to life is really what it is. And that's kind of what I really wanted to do. That was the thesis of my whole like, me being turned on by the sci-fi. Because like the thing you can do, I feel like the thing that you can do with them, with that format was you could really deconstruct sci-fi. Like we always talk about like, I said this at the director's,

because I was like, when Luke Skywalker walks into the cantina and like is Confronted by walrus man like is that sexual like is that is he like he's fucking with Luke Looks like some farm boy in this bar in this rough bar like what's gonna happen to Luke right like that's a conversation You cannot have right in star in the context of Star Wars, right? Right, there's no chance right that's not gonna but like in in heavy metal That's real. Yeah, that that threat is real. Yeah, you know, and it's not and it's not anything other than like a naive farm boy walking into like a gritty city bar That he doesn't know what the fuck he has no he's out of his element farm boy walking into like a gritty city bar

that he doesn't know what the fuck he has no, he's out of his element other than that he's our hero. And he's gotta go through a crucible and he's gotta learn. You know, he's gotta like, these are the like Joseph Cambelian parts of his journey. So anyway, but that, and that's kind of what it's cool because you know, I've always been like the hugest fan of heavy metal

I think it's like the fucking cool. It was the coolest thing heavy metal is amazing It's like it always like made me it's kind of broke me for comics a little bit because you know It was always like super sexy and super violent and so you get a normal comic and be like When are they gonna start fucking cuz you know, it's Yeah, it was always sexual and there was one that I remember that I remember was like very stunning to me Very shocking when I was a kid and it was a pretty sure it was heavy metal It was a it was one of those genres where it was a guy and his wife Started a relationship with a robot. Oh, yeah, cool

And he tried to like fight off the robot and the robot broke his arm with his big dick hanging out Like the robot had like this big giant flaccid dick and he broke the guy's arm was like smiling at him And it was just like right sounds amazing. It was amazing But it was also like indicative of that that genre that those days like this is the 70s, right? 70s when they first started publishing now Yeah all that was on the ragged edge which was so and was so underground and so cold and so weird that's what I loved about it and that's what I wanted to do with the movie is like say what is the cult underground raw sci-fi movie look like you know. So is it hard to do the PG-13 version? It was very hard it was really

it was really. Was it conflict like? It was super conflicted. Although the only thing I will say is that I was liberated by the fact that I knew the R-rated version exists. So there was, in the other versions of this work, in the other director's cuts, there was a version where that director's cut never was seen. There's a very good chance that that movie never got, it's all the light of day because where would you show it? In the old world, in the movie days, all you had was DVD as your option and if DVD said, yeah, we're good with like just the normal version,

then that would have been it. And it would just die of death and you would, whatever you intended for the movie would just never be seen. And that's just how it was. And so this, in this scenario, I was like super grateful to Netflix because I was like, you guys have like done a thing that I've never been able to do my entire career. And that is like, know that this version of the movie exists and it's gonna be seen.

So I'm happy to do whatever we, whatever you guys think is right for the PG-13. I'm like I'm a good soldier and I I'm proud of it and I love it but yes it is different from like what I you know was. What if the R version is it NC-17 or R? Is it NC-17? It's I won't say the exact rating we're waiting to see we're still like up against it, but we're trying to get it It's TV ma right now. What does that mean? I don't know No one does your audiences. Yeah, you know like any TV show that's not cuz like in TV the cool thing about TV is they have TV 14 and then it goes to TV MA TV MA literally has no top on it

You know like you're gonna I think it's like almost like porn is TV MA is no I don't know what I look no one understands the ratings no one does it's an alchemy that is impossible to know It's all subjective. It's all subjective and bizarre and so you know and they also it's genre genre related, right? So like say for instance, the ratings board might say something like, well, this is a sci-fi movie. So it's too much. But if it was a horror movie, it'd be fine. But it's a sci-fi movie, so it's not fine. Or it's a superhero movie.

That was the whole thing with Batman versus Superman. I remember the ratings board said, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. I was like, what is that? But how is that your opinion? Like how is that, that has nothing to do with the rating. The ratings didn't like that? Yeah, they kept saying like we want it.

They kept making it an R. They kept coming back with an R for us. And we were like, we really, what do you want us to cut out? And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman's fighting Superman. I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the out? And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman as a fighting Superman. I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the movie. That's so ridiculous.

They would have that kind of power. So it was crazy. So we really had to trim it super. Do you think that affected the final version? I mean, if you see the director's cut of Batman versus Superman, it's much better. It's a much better movie. In my opinion, it's a much better movie.

Well, it's representative of what you actually wanted to create. Yeah, and I think that that that's that's true of all the director's cuts that I've done is that it just a glimpse into the why that You get to see better the why of the movie the why of its origin Yeah, what it how it because like obviously something kept me awake for two years writing Something kept me jazzed about like, fuck yeah, I can't wait to do this. I'm drawing, I draw, for Rebel Moon,

like I drew 3,000 storyboards for that movie. Like that is like a lot of work, you know. That's a lot of work. To like, you know, to, you gotta care. That's five months of drawing after I've written the script. Wow. So I've written the script for a year and a half and then I draw the movie for like another five months

It's fucking insane. Oh my god. You must be going nuts. Yeah, it's missing fortnight. Yeah That was before fortnight It's a good thing I didn't have fortnight because I would have like The problem with writing and with for me drawing is if I have one procrastination I can do one Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, cuz like if I have one procrastination I can do, one, I'll take it. Yeah. Because like if I look at that blank pad and I look at the video controller, video game controller, I'm like, oh yeah, this is way more satisfying.

Yeah. That thing wants to fuck me up. That pad is trying to fuck me up. The thing about the delayed satisfaction though is that if you could force yourself to get to the pad, when you're done you'll feel good. And if you play the video game, you'll feel, last night I started fucking around in my office, I was just watching YouTube videos and looking at pool cues and then I said, alright, go to work.

And I snapped and I went to work and I worked for a couple hours and when it was done, when I went to bed, I felt great. Awesome hours and when it was done when I went to bed I felt great awesome. No, I felt like I did it I did something I had the feeling of doing something is so much better than the feeling that you have to carry for hours of Fucking off when you knew you're supposed to do something hundred percent I couldn't agree more and then by the way and then in the end I did it I did that work and I'd show like when, it, when we went to film the movie, and I've always drawn the storyboards for my movies, it's like, it's, it's, it's a problem, but it's,

it's a thing that I do. It's my only process. It's funny because when I made Sucker Punch, I remember we were talking about it. And I think it was my script supervisor. She said, one day you're going to like not need to draw these drawings and you're just going to, you know, you're not going to need to spend that time. And it's just funny that like in retrospect, it's like, obviously I have to draw the drawings. Like it, it's like, let, like that's my process. Now I realize there's no way around it. There's no, like you want to cheat, you know, like I wish I had a cheat where I didn't have to draw the drawings where I'd be like Oh, no, it's gonna be fine

I I think I can make it up on the day and it'll be good and I do make it up on the day but the truth is that process of drawing is the process that I I Vet a lot of the ideas in that drawing price. It's not just drawing. It's writing as well I'll change the script. I'll do whatever. I'll be like, no, no, because that doesn't make sense. When I see it physically, I'm like, no, that doesn't work. So I have to reconstruct it in the drawings a little bit sometimes. When did you start doing that? I started doing it.

I did it throughout. I did it 300. Did you learn it from someone? No, I'd always drawn. I draw and like you know I'd gone to school as for fine art So I was always drawing Shots and so it's also a thing like in film school or when you're trying to think of something Movies take so much resource right you need like to make a movie You're like basically an architect and you have to convince someone to build a building,

right? And it's so much work to convince people like to invest, to dig the, get all the cranes and the steel. It's like impossible. So drawing is like a little taste of it, right? So like I can make these are the shots I want to make, right? So in a weird way, it's like, it's drawing that beautiful sketch of the building. In a lot of ways, that's what it's gonna be, you know? So you can get a feeling for it. And I think that's what it does for me. It satisfies the impossible group activity

that's gonna require me me to convince people. Maybe that's why I love Fountainhead. It's that process of getting people to believe in this thing that it's going to take resources and so much crew and building and designing and all that other work that's down the road. It's the drawing that I think is a little bit of a, it's satiates that desire a little bit for me. It gives them a framework too. There's like, there's something.

Oh, it's hugely beneficial in the production process. Once they have that, everyone knows exactly what to do. You know, it's incredible tool once I have it. Did you do it for Watchmen? 100%. My Watchmen books are insane. Did you draw Dr. Manhattan's dick? Of course. That's the question.

Yeah. Here's the question. You got to. Could you make that movie today? I don't know. Would they allow? I mean, like- That's what's interesting, right? Someone once gave me a statistic of how much time

Dr. Manhattan's cock is in the movie like just full frontally in the film and I think it's a fair amount Like it's I think it's the I think it's the only studio film It holds the record for most frontal nudity Male frontal nudity of any you know and it's kind of important It's super important. He It's super important. Like he doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck. Obviously. Yeah. Like he walks around like that.

He's a god. He's a god. Like what the fuck? You can't deal with it. I'll fucking vaporize you. Or I don't even care what you think. You're a cockroach. It's like, what does he say?

He goes, he goes, the world's smartest man is no more dangerous to me than its smartest termite. It's like such a cool thing to say. You know, like he doesn't, you know what I mean? It's like you really realize in the face of a god, like he does, I've walked across the surface of the sun. You know, he's like, I don't- No, he was the coolest.

He's the best. He's the coolest. And the transformation scene is fucking amazing. By the way, that, one of my, we were just talking about the other day, like one of my favorite sequences in any movie I've made is his The birth sequence of document that the whole thing with the film because we it's Philip Glass did the music right? We borrowed the music because I had heard that music and I was like it's got to be this music And we tried to like Tyler Bates who's an amazing composer

He tried we try I go write me something that's better than this and we just couldn't do it so we just had to license it from and I had to send Philip Glass a sequence and he watched and he said okay it's cool you can have the music that's so Glass, this music. When he knows he's fucked. We built this giant oversized watch for those shots. And, that's good, yeah, that's that Phil Glass. So good, that music is good. That fucking birth scene is insane.

It's so good, it's so good. It's so insane, it's so good. The skeleton in the hallway with the muscles screaming. Oh my God. I remember shooting that exactly like it was yesterday. Yeah. We had this air cannon. We had to fire at that guy with the mop.

Mm-hmm. Because when he, he like, it gets hit with it. He was like overacting. I think we did like three takes. I was like, guys, just, the first time he like flew on the ground.

I was like, okay, it's too much. It's good fun. Yeah, that's really cool. It's interesting because like, um, you know, we, I think one of the things that we, after Justice League, I think one of the things that we, we really as a, as a group, as a family anyway, you know, cause I lost my daughter over that, um, you know, you know, because I lost my daughter over that. You know, once my, you know, at the post side of Justice League, I lost my daughter to suicide.

And, you know, I left the movie famously and then the movie went on and then later we were able to like, you know, finish the movie sort of in the way that we had always hoped and I think the thing is that like the thing that I kind of sort of come back to when I look at that and when I look at the movies is like, you know we There are these markers, you know the movies are really these markers of time that we even though they sort of transcend time weirdly you know, they exist beyond the time they were recorded, you know, these weird, like they're in the computer

as sort of these singular like little, you press it, but then it runs and it's real and it's time and it takes time to enjoy it and time to like, you can't just say it, you have to watch it and feel it again, you know, it's like a cool, it's a weird thing in that way. And I think that like, it just, the thing that you hope is that in the end,

you know, the markers meant something to people, you know? And I think that that's, we've really fought around because a lot of these mental health has been a big thing for my wife and I, you know, since losing my daughter and we've always tried. We've tried the best we can to support the fans have done incredibly. The fans have raised over a million dollars

just to support AFSP, which is the suicide, against suicide in America foundation. And we've been like, just, it's been cool that the movies, these moments of like, now in retrospect, have like a purpose, you know, and that they have like, that the fans have gotten this opportunity to kind of like, you know, join with us and kind of like be with us to like, you know, and you know, this is,

cause it's a huge stigma, you know, like people, nobody wants to talk about like, that they're having trouble, you know, and you know, this, cause it's a huge stigma, you know, like people, nobody wants to talk about like that they're having trouble, you know, that they're, you know, that they're not okay. And I think that what we've been trying to do lately, as much as we can is like, say like, no, it's good. Like, you know, it just, it's okay. You know, like it's not a sign of weakness. It's nothing. It's just, it's real. You know, like it's not a sign of weakness. It's nothing.

It's just, it's real. You know, it's- It's part of being human. It's kind of a hundred percent part of being human. And I think that it was a, you know, we've all, it's an easy thing to kind of say that, you know, it's just stress or it's, I just like, I'm good, you know, I'm good, I'm not depressed, I'm fine.

And it's an easy thing to just try and muscle through. Where like, I think that, it's my hope anyway, that like as a family, the movies and our connection to the fans and our connection to like that cause has been really, really deep. And just watching this actually just, fans and our connection to that cause has been really, really deep. And just watching this actually just started me thinking about like what the movies mean, you know, like how their, what is their legacy, you know, what are they, and if they can do

on one, on one hand, they are the moments you see for me, Dr. Manhattan, Leonidas, whatever it is. But then on the other hand, there's this other narrative outside of the stories. What I was experiencing and what made me think of it is just like what I was going through at that day when we filmed it, like what I was struggling with, what I was trying to deal with is real. That's hard stuff. That was just life being lumpy for us, just trying to make a movie,

living in Canada, being away from the kids, just all that struggle. And then it's cool when, it's been cool for me that when the fandom and the movie, like in the case of Justice League, they lined up, you know, where these people were like, no, we're not gonna, we want, there's a movie out there that we want to see. And it's a round of struggle that we had as a family. And all of it sort of came together.

I always say like, you know, people are like, you know, the fandom was toxic or whatever they were like, they were so angry to get the cut that they were like, I go also, also, they literally, people's lives were saved by the money that those kids raised. Like literal, like lives, real tangible lives were saved by that money. That those kids that you called, that you would say are these toxic fans, they're also

responsible for the saving of lives. And that's just real. You have to acknowledge it because if you don't, like, you, you, you, in some ways, the legacy that they were able to create is like dismissed. And I just, I won't, I can't. Well, that's just a reductionist view of things that people always like to apply, the things that are controversial,

especially when they're talking about your fans and saying something like they're toxic. That's such a dismissive thing. No, there's gonna be some elements of any passionate, rabid fans. Of course. That are gonna be toxic because it means so much to them. And that's what you have to understand.

The reason why they're behaving the way they are behaving, the reason why they're screaming is, first of all, they don't think they're being heard. And second of all, it means everything to them. These people that are deeply invested in your films and particularly things that have this sort of iconic history, like the Watchmen, or like Batman. I mean, these are very important things to people. 100%. 100%.

It's like the same way people are fanatical about sports teams, the same way they're fanatical about music. It's tribal, you know? It's tribal. 100%. It's very, very tribal. So for you, when you have vision and you have these story boards and you have all this stuff that you were,

and then you see something like in my opinion that Birth scene is one of the great masterpieces of that genre. It's a masterpiece It's like watching him be born and become dr. Manhattan is fucking amazing It's like I remember being in the movie theater watching going oh shit. It was the. It's like what you want from these fantasy escapism, graphic novel turned films. It was perfect. Yeah, it's cool. And even just like watching it and like, you know,

the comment, like I never said that the Superman was real and he's American. I said that God was real and he's American. And if that doesn't give you like religious like fear, then like you're not, then you're just not human. Like you gotta like, it's okay. It's okay to be scared. Right.

Because it's fucking scary. Yeah, he's real. Yeah, it's a scary thing. It's a very scary thing. But it's cool. But when you have these ideas and you have all this work and then it comes together, I mean, that's gotta be insanely satisfying to watching a scene like that. It is. It's a cool, like, I guess for me, you know, like, that, the process of like putting it together and then like when you, when it literally lands and you, and it's what you drew and it's

what you thought and the music and everything like lands, it really, it is, there is a like, I mean, I'm sure it's like anything, It's probably like the same thing like doing standup or whatever, like when you, when like it all, when you're grooving, when you're in the groove with it and it's just happening, you're kind of surfing it. And you're like, God, this is the feeling right here. Right? Like you can't acknowledge it in the moment,

but you can feel it, it can push you. You know, like it's like a wave, you know, and you can feel it. That's how it is, For me, it's such a long process. It's not instant gratification. It's like you really have to have a head down mentality to get it to that position. But when I watch it that first time and it comes back and I'm like, yeah, that's like fucking, that's what we, that's the why of it right there, you know, and I think that that keeps me going, frankly, you

know, that little high is really, it's really fun. Well, that's the goal, right? The goal is to create that high. And that high, people leave a film like that that's like, there's, you'll do things that you wouldn't have ordinarily do. Like you'll, you'll, maybe you'll be inspired. Maybe you'll start working on something. Maybe there's certain things and I think that's the beauty of creation in a lot of ways. This is not just escapism, but it gives you, it's like a drug. It gives you this like boost of excitement that often leads to inspiration, it inspires you to action.

It makes people do things. 100%. 100%. I feel like that, if you can do that, then your movie is like, it's a huge success. If one guy comes up to me, like the thing about Man of Steel that I've always, that I felt like is that Man of Steel is the movie that, the people will come up to me and say like, that movie changed my life, like that movie, like, you know, like I thought it was about me,

you know, like I'm an immigrant, like I just saw myself in Superman. It's like really like, you know, I was struggling at the time and when I saw it, I like, I'm not just be like, man, that's so cool. Like I'm so grateful that like, you know, you felt that way about the movie. Cause I don't, you know, like, man, that's so cool. I'm so grateful that you felt that way about the movie. Because I don't, for me, it's like I send it off into the world. You think about Netflix, for instance,

where you push a button and Rebel Moon, right? The Zeitgeist is crazy because Rebel Moon, so say right now, it's like almost 90 million views, right? 90 million people, 90 million starts, so or 90 million accounts said, turn it on, okay? Give or take. They assume two viewers per screening, right? That's the kind of math. So you think if that movie was in the theater as a distribution model, so that's 160 million account or people supposedly watching based on that math. So 160 million people at $10 a ticket would be, what is that math? I don't know, 160 million times 10.

That's 1.6 billion, you know. So like you look at the view numbers, you sort of, you can use that rough. You know, so more people probably saw Rebel Moon than saw Barbie in the theater, right? That's how crazy Netflix, that's how, that's the distribution model that they've set up, you know? I was like, I was at this thing the other day

and we were talking about Rebel Moon 2 and I said, and they were like, well, talk about Rebel Moon 1. I'm like, no, like go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house. Like don't, like it's not like a theater situation. You could like turn it on your phone right now and watch it like right here if you wanted. Like that's how crazy it is.

I'm like, you know, like that it's so, this model with this machine they built is really something else. It's really crazy if you think about it. Just like we were saying about the Formula One, like they're able to like insert something into popular culture that's so like a deep cut, like a documentary about Formula One. How else do you get that to the people? Right. No way.

No way. No way. You released it in the theater, five people go. Yeah. You know, literally five people go. Yeah, put it on TV. And like a hundred million people see it. Yeah. That's crazy. It's strange. It's interesting because it shows that there was an audience there. It's just like to get someone to go out of their house and buy a ticket.

That's just too much of a tough sell. It's a different model. It's a different model. And it's weird how they think about it. When you think about it in those terms, that you give the audience an alternative. Like you give them a chance to like go on this, you know like Rebel Moon's like, okay, that's new IP, right?

No one knows what the fuck that is. What's a Rebel Moon? Some space thing? I guess, like, okay, well, let's watch it. You know, it's that, the barrier for entry is so low that it allows, I think, what's watch it. You know, it's that the barrier for entry is so low that it allows, I think, what's cool is it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist because, you know, especially like you think

about the director's cut of Rubble Moon, which will be, if it was in theaters, a very boutique concept, right? Very singular, it's like the animated version of Heavy Metal. Like, you know, the movie, I'm like, you know, I'm a huge fan, but like not a lot of people have seen it. Where I feel like this is a chance where, like, when this movie is released, the amount of people that can lay eyes on it is crazy compared to what it would be, you know, in another, if I was releasing it,

say, theatrically or whatever. You know, in another, if I was releasing it, say, theatrically or whatever. You know, it's a three-hour movie. Both of them are three hours. So it's much different. Like, both the PG-13s are two hours, right? That was one of the things that we talked about also. Like, I want the movie short, PG, right? That's the, that's kind of the prerequisite where I'm like on the on the R-rated version. It's like there's no rules Like it's it's like no no, there's no there's no Expectations no rules no nothing like you get that's that experience is a completely different and when does that one come out? It comes at the end of summer the end of summer. I wanted I want enough time

Yeah, probably right in there. I want we don't have an exact date, but like someone somewhere I wanted enough time, yeah, probably right in there. I want, we don't have an exact date, but like somewhere, I wanted enough time so that I didn't want them to be too attached to the PG version. Cause I love them. By the way, like I said, I'm proud of the PG version. I think it's fun. I think when you see Rebel Moon 2 on April 19th, you will see a very, a war movie. It's a fucking war movie is what it is. Like cause like the first thing is like gather the team. Second movie is a war movie. It's a fucking war movie is what it is like because like the first thing is like gather the team

Second movies a war movie The the R rated version is just a different journey Like you just get there in a different way and it's just more like I said, it's just more weird It's more boutique and more bizarre and more like the original more like heavy metal. Yeah Yeah, yeah more like a genre you could you can't really pitch a studio a Live action heavy metal movie right now. It's just not a I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you'd make that You know unless you are willing to do some sort of

Song and dance, you know, hmm, which? Which is, which I think that as a product, like I said, I'm proud of it and I think it works for what they've generated because like, basically for the same price as two movies, right? They get four movies, which is pretty, that's pretty crazy, you know? Because the director's cuts for what, for the hour, additional hour and extra

Stuff that we did inside of each of those movies each of the movies is an hour longer What we did inside those movies with tone and with gore and sex and all that stuff within the same framework You're getting two entirely different movies. It's not like extended version. You know, like that I'd be like, okay, whatever. You know, like, oh, you did an extra like weird little, here's the thing you cut out that you thought was too long. It's not like that at all. Like, you know, it's just a lot more, I don't know.

It's just- True to the vision. Yeah, it's got balls. It's got a lot of balls. And is that, I mean, that's gotta be this thing where you're waiting, like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I want you to see the real thing. I don't think, you know, it's a weird thing

because I don't think, I mean, look, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's up to the viewers, you know, in a lot of ways. I don't wanna like, by no means am I saying that you can't watch both, for sure you can. It's really, it's really how you do it. by no means am I saying that you can't watch both? For sure you can. It's really how you do it. I feel like if you've seen PG-13, Rebel Moon, part one, you should see PG-13, part two,

because they're really closely related. I mean, they're like, it's a direct, you know, like you, it could be one movie. You could cut them together, literally, and just keep going. Where it's chapter two, it's part two. It's like a, where I feel like that in the R rated experience it's just like a different,

they're both gonna release on the same day. So you can just fucking binge it. Yeah. That's the way to do it too with Netflix. Yeah. One of the things I love about Netflix is why I don't find out about something until like two or three seasons in.

I'm like, yes. Yes, 100%. Let's go. I can, yes, it's actually. 17 episodes. It's the same muscle that made me play Fortnite for like six months. Yeah, exactly.

Well, if you have the time and a good series is bingeable, God, so satisfying. That's the best, it's so satisfying. I think we could do another. That's what I always say to my wife. I'm like, how do you feel? And she's like, I feel good. Are you sleepy?

No, let's go. Have you ever thought about doing like a Netflix series, like something that's so big that you couldn't do in one or two films? Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it a lot. Like, I mean, nobody wants Fountainhead, but that's what I wanted to do. You know, I pitched him Fountainhead

because like, I'm a, you know, I'm a, I've written this super adaptation of that book. And I just think it's, I think it would be amazing, but no one wants to make it because they think it's like, it's taboo, Einran is taboo. But why is she taboo? I don't know, she's taboo among the intelligentsia because they think she's a fascist

and they think the book's a fascist propaganda, piece of fascist propaganda. That's not why I like the book. I'm like, look, you know, I happen to just like it because it's, to me, it's a direct comment on making a movie, right? It's a movie about an architect who won't make the buildings that everyone wants him to make

and like what the struggle he goes through to get the buildings made the way he wants to make them. Of course I like that, you know, like no movie director. I'm sure there's plenty of movie directors that don't like Fountainhead, but I just think that it just has, it says so much. I and Rand wrote Fountainhead in direct response to being noted on a script that she had written. And she had been studying this movie about skyscrapers and they told her, she kept submitting versions

of the script and they kept noting her, noting her until it was unrecognizable. And then she was like, this is what happens to like, you know, to work. You know, it gets noted until it disintegrates into the spheres. So that's one thing that I've always wanted to do, but I don't know that I'm ever, I don't know that the world will allow that. I don't know why.

It's one of those weird things where Iron Brand is,, she's connected to like incels or you know like angry white guys or like finance people, they're cruel. It's this very strange- Steve Jobs is favorite book by the way. Interesting. Interesting. That is interesting. But it's one of those things where it's like if you hear that like I'm an Ayn Rand fan iron fan. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah Yeah, and I'm going to yeah, exactly You know, it's true, right, but it's funny because look and I get by the way Alice shrugged fair You know, you can play with that. That's a game that I I mean I

I'm pretty exclusively a fountain hit fanatic and for that also because it's melodrama too Like it's the most melodramatic thing ever. I mean as far as just like why won't Netflix let you do that? I don't know if they should I just I feel like that I think it would have a huge Again, I think I know it would work. I know it would work. I know it worked. Yeah. Why don't fuck come on Netflix Let's go Well, I'm a fan of letting artists like yourself do what is their vision. And I think people are often wrong about whether or not

something is going to be successful commercially, or whether or not it's going to resonate with a lot of other people. But that's the thing that no one knows. That's the awesome thing about movies is like, and why I'm not that worried about the AI influence over motion picture because there's obviously no formula no one can predict what's gonna be successful or they would have gotten rid of the

directors and writers a long time ago you know like it's still there's alchemy there's still magic there's still like an impossible like you know all these elements come together and you're like an impossible like you know all these elements come together and you're like you feel something and you're like what that was cool fuck you know and it's a thing like who knows you know yeah it's like you know any anything you know that that you see that maybe if someone described it to you in an abstract you'd be like that sounds dumb like I know and then you sit and you watch it and you experience it moment by moment

You feel it. Yeah, it's fucking cool Well, it's also I think there's always going to be a thing that people Resonate with where they know it's made by a person they know that artists thoughts were involved in the creation of this thing This is the vision they work tirelessly to produce this and they put it out and they're proud of it, here it is. And there's something about that that you're getting to take in another human beings, a group of human beings, creation. And that means something to us and I think it's always gonna mean something to us. I think there's gonna be AI songs and AI movies and AI art and it's gonna be cool.

But it's not gonna be as cool because it's not gonna be from a human. Correct. Or from human beings. And I do feel like the fingerprints, the squishy fingerprints on the thing are the thing that make it like unbelievably cool. Chisel marks. Yeah, I want the chisel marks.

I love them, I live for them. To me, that's the bit. The best movies, my favorite movies, the best movies are where you can feel the hand of the filmmaker. I want that. I do not want the movie made by committee. Exactly. When you go to a movie that feels like it was made in the boardroom, I feel dirty when I watch that. I don't like it. I don't want the cold hand of marketing on me like that. That's why I love the weirdness. I feel like in the end, all my movies are just a little bit weird in a good way, like 300 for whatever it's,

like all the like, you know, kind of like coolness of it as far as like, yeah, let's go fight. It's still a weirdo movie, you know, like the way it's made. Did you ever think of putting a bunch of gay stuff in there? Well, you know, I just, it's Frank's book, you know, I wrote it, I wrote, I made what Frank wrote now now in retrospect And that we've been talking about doing a series where I really wanted to like Introduce those concepts a lot more because I just feel like it's important in

If we go forward and do like more in the 300 universe I would want to bring that part in and let people which I think just shakes it up again Like you're like what like Yeah, right when you thought you knew like how to feel like I'm gonna make you feel like another way people have always said like you know 300 you know people have accused me of being like homophobic or whatever And I'm like I don't know they just somehow they feel like that because the Spartans weren't doing gay stuff Or because they you know, there's that one line where he says you know Philosophers and boy lovers, but like I I think that that

He's clearly being cheeky Leonidas because like I of course him was hyper aware at the time that the reality of Spartan culture was Was like he's obviously, he means philosophies and boy lovers, not like he's using that maybe as a derogatory comment, but when in reality, he's a lover of men probably, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. And so like, I just think that like as,

and we talked about like as we go forward, I would love to just kind of stress. And just, I said, look, 300, in some ways, is one of the gayest movies ever made. It is incredibly male-centric, male-obsessed. You really feel very strong male energy from the movie, even though there's a strong, you know, Gorgos incredibly strong female character and we wrote her and made her, like he doesn't decide to kick the person messenger into the well without getting approval from Gorgos, because, you know, he's like, I'm going to burn it down. Is that cool? And she's like, go do it, you know, and he's like, I'm gonna burn it down. Is that cool?

And she's like, go do it. And he's like, all right, here we go. And this is Sparta as that guy. And that's like, that was that. And I just think, but I just think that like, and maybe that was just me understanding, doing the research and understanding the reality of Spartan culture that I really,

that energy was in there because I just felt like it was important to make sure that it was, you know, that there was this kind of visceral sexuality to the way the men actually interacted, you know, that was there. I mean, regardless of whether you acknowledge it, it's there, you know. That would be, but it wasn't acknowledged really in the film. Like if anybody didn't know the history of the Spartans, they wouldn't know. No, no. But I just feel, I just mean from sort of an iconic standpoint as far as like the, the,

this just sort of indulgence in the male form, you know, is very, it's not, it's not casual. Right. If you have to be fascinating to see if you did do a series and you had them behave the way Spartans actually did the reaction. Yeah, it'd be interesting. I think that hopefully we'll find out one day. That'd be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. Yeah.

It's just, I mean, like, look, in the end, it's a, it's a weirdo, it's a weirdo show, you know, like it just, it's fun to enjoy it. It's fun to fuck with it, you know? Like that's what we do. Like you gotta tear it apart a little bit to like take a look at it. You gotta know, you know? When you choose things to do today,

how do you go about doing it? Do you just sit with an idea and bring it to studios? Do they come to you? Do you, how do you choose what you? I don't develop. I kind of have a bunch of stuff. I've always had a bunch of stuff that I work on and I just go, I want to do this and then whoever wants to do it, then they we do it. That's a nice position.

It is. It's an awesome position and I appreciate it and I don't take it for granted. There's a few things. I've always been obsessed with Richard Bach. I don't know if you know, he has this book called Illusions that I've owned for a long time and I've always wanted to do. I grew up as a Christian scientist. Isn't that a book about channeling? Well, Illusions is about this, it's a book about this guy flying in his biplane around in the 1970s And he lands in a in a in a pasture because like in the 70s you Well, he was part of this sort of he would fly his biplane around land in a pasture and then sell rides for $3

Like for ten minutes and that's how he lived right? He's just a gypsy pilot flying around the Midwest. And he happens to come across this guy who also is flying a biplane, who happens to be like a messiah, who happens to be like this super spiritually advanced dude who's on the run from, he doesn't wanna be the messiah. He's like, it's called illusions,

the adventures of a reluctant messiah. And it's about the two of them spending a summer together Just the one guy teaching him about like it's a shit job being the Messiah Like don't don't do it because you know what happens to the Messiah is in the end, right? Yeah, he goes do you always have to die of violent death and he goes yeah, I don't think always and he's like really He goes yeah, you know what it's it's cool for like he goes What about just a quiet little ascension? You know just on the side and he's like yeah I don't think that I don't think the universe will let that happen. You know, so it's a cool. So it's this really cool

again, it's like this sort of It's again like a spiritual deconstructivist like Messiah story and I just like I've always it was like this book when I was growing up I just in a lot of ways it's It's religious philosophy is this similar to Christian science so I Superimposed my religious beliefs onto this book and I felt like it kind of spoke to my doubts and my questions about my religious upbringing and like what I thought for real.

Like my brother, so my brother passed away when I was 13, he got in a car accident and he was like this incredibly spiritual dude. Everyone like, anyone who knew my brother was like that guy was the guy, he was the man. Like, you know, Sam Snyder was like among his peer group was like, he was like, in retrospect, like he was in a Tai Chi and like just like super cool 70s dude, right? Like just kind of look like Billy Crude up, right? Like Billy Crude up from like, you know, almost famous, right?

Imagine that guy, like, but just like the coolest guy, you know, smoking dope, just being cool as hell. So when he passed away, I always thought like, okay, my brother just like tired of this world and went looking for another one. You know, like he was just like on a spiritual journey. But then like when you see, when you're 13 and you see like what that event though does to your family,

your mother and father, your sister, all of their friends, the devastation that they feel. And these are people that I believed, believed in the religion that I believed in. And the pain, it made me really go like, what the fuck is this? What's what like what are we supposed to believe? You know it really tested me and I think that illusions that book in retrospect and

I won't spoiler alert. I won't tell you what happens on the last page of the book But it it kind of speaks to where I was and I and I think so's always resonated with me. And I'm friends with Richard Bach. I became friends with him and his wife is constantly texting me like, when are we making illusions? And I was like, soon, soon. She's like, I found the planes. You know, so it's cool.

It's cool. Like we have the planes, we can make it any time. So yeah, standing. So those are kind of, that's how we develop. Like it's all these things that I have, you know, that are kind of close to me that I'm always constantly saying, what about that? We should maybe it's time.

That's awesome dude. Well listen, it's been great to talk to you. I really appreciate what you've done. I love how excited you are about filmmaking. Not you. Cheers. You've done some awesome shit man. You should be proud.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Look man, I'm a fan of the show and it's an honor to come honor to come on talk to you. Thank you. It's honor to have you. Cheers. Alright. Bye everybody. Thanks