The Joe Rogan Experience - #2153 - Dave Smith

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Dave Smith is a stand-up comedian, libertarian political commentator, and podcaster. He's the host of the "Part of the Problem" podcast, as well as a co-host of the "Legion of Skanks” podcast. www.comicdavesmith.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Did you see what she said? That young black kids don't know what a computer is. Did you see her say that? No, I didn't see that. Oh my god, and all these dudes did these hilarious videos where these young black guys got around a computer and they stared at it and bit it until it gets... There's like a...

It's like an age thing too, because that used to kind of be the line that liberals would say, you know, the problem with black kids is they just don't have any role models, they've never been exposed to this. But that's just totally not true anymore. And sometimes now, because they're from a different generation, they'll still say that. And you're like, are you, have you been around black people lately?

But saying young, poor black kids don't know what a computer is is so crazy. They've got one in their pocket. It's such a dumb thing to say. It's amazing that you could say something like that and be the governor of a major state. Don't even know what the word computer is. Oh, they don't. They're not even familiar with the term. They don't know these things. Like, is she doing a survey? Ma'am, where did you get this data? Oh, this is why Malcolm X said that, uh, there's nothing more racist

than a white liberal. Yes. Because of shit like this. Well, they're weak. Weak people are dangerous. Weak people that don't like strength are dangerous. They're dangerous because they want to suppress everything. That's what's spooky about it

Weak people scare the shit out of me more than even like totalitarians do sometimes because they eventually become totalitarian You know, it's like the bullied become the bullies, you know, they want payback But it's just weak liberal men are, to me, they're so detestable. The weak ones. I mean, there's some intelligent, brilliant liberal men that just, that's their philosophy. And I think if you're not exposed to the pitfalls of liberalism, if you don't see what happens to your state when those policies get enacted, specifically when things go south if everything was going great like No one gave a shit who the mayor of Los Angeles was in 2015 because everything was great, right? You know, it was like there was no problem. So Obama was president the economy was doing good

We weren't at war really kind of we were but yeah wasn't affecting us, right? well there's something on that topic of the weakness of modern liberals. Because I was in, late last year, I was in San Diego. And I haven't been to, I mean I've been to LA a couple times, but much less than I used to go like when you were out there.

And I haven't been to San Francisco in years. But I was in San Diego, and it's like, you've been there, it's like a beautiful city downtown, and where we were, there's a great comedy club, the American Comedy Company down there. No, I'm good. Great club. Great club, love that place.

And I'm like downtown, and we were going, me and my buddy Rob Bernstein, very funny comedian, who was with me on the trip, we're like walking around in the great restaurants, really nice little, but then there's just blocks that are taken over by these homeless encampments. And right next to them, it's like all these young professionals and these nice restaurants in this nice city.

And I was just thinking about that. Like how are all of the men here so weak that they won't just kind of like put their foot down and be like, hey, no, we're not gonna put up with this. Like we're not just, it's almost like this, like niceness has taken over to the point that you can't even defend this cool city that you have here.

And I'm not saying like bash the homeless people with clubs or anything like that. I'm just saying like, why are you allowing this to happen? And it is like a profound weakness that, well, we'd feel like bad people if we were to say, we don't want junkies covered in shit right next to our outdoor dining. You're like, no, that would just be reasonable.

Well, what they need is a reasonable plan to help these people. If you really care, if you really care, you gotta do something. Like you really care, if you really care, you got to do something. Like you can't just let them exist everywhere. And then in San Francisco, the most recent bizarre one is they're going to give them alcohol. They're going to give money in alcohol. What is it? Are they giving them actual booze or are they giving them money to buy booze? Help me out with this one. Because it's just so San Francisco. San

Francisco is amazing. I lived there in the 70s. I lived there during the Vietnam War when I was a little kid. It was incredible. It was weird. It shaped the way I view things. Because if I had grown up in a very conservative environment with my sensibilities, my hard work ethic, and my belief that you get very fortunate in life in how you're gifted things, how you get lucky. If you're beautiful, for instance, if you're a beautiful woman or man, what a roll of the dice.

Good Lord, good Lord did you kill it in the fucking genetic lottery? I mean, you can't do anything about that. You can't earn that. You can't go out and get beauty, you know? But after that, whatever hand you've given, you've been given, a lot of it is on you. A lot of it is on you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, terrible things happen to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, violence happens, crime happens, disease happens. Yes, 100%. Misfortune happens, 100%. We're all... Anyone listening to this right now is lucky you can hear. Okay, there's people that can't hear, right? But put that aside. And there's a factor that we need to take into consideration. That factor is discipline. That factor is hard work. That factor is focus. And we should cherish that. And we shouldn't think of it only as negative because it always... People always think it manifests itself in greed and in callous disregard for other people's lives. But that's not necessarily true. They're not mutually exclusive. Like,

you can have discipline and be a kind person and being compassionate person and be a liberal person. But so often liberals in this country, they do not want to take that into consideration. That discipline is a factor. Conservatives always value discipline. They value hard work. That's why when they want to sell shit to those people, what do they do?

They show a guy on a farm cracking open a beer. A guy's just been working his fucking ass off for 10 hours a day, cracking a beer. Around here, it's all just about hard work, and the guy's just throwing back a cold one. You know, I mean, that's what they're selling you. They're selling you hard work. They're not selling you, you know, this poor farmer, you know, who's born into farming life and it's not equitable or fair, while there's billionaires out there

just make money trading money and it's bullshit. And we need to distribute wealth and like, no. No, that's not the answer either, stupid. Like that's not the answer. But you do need programs to get these people out of homelessness and you can't just encourage them to keep doing it. It's bad for them, it's bad for you, it's bad for the city, it's bad for property values, it's bad for everything.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. San Francisco gives actual alcohol. We're not talking rubbing alcohol here, right? They're talking like booze. Oh, they're so good. They're so good. But these are the old hippies.

They're still there. They're wearing masks right now while they're listening to this screaming They're they're all loss see the like to your point It's like a look it'd be ridiculous if someone just completely dismissed the first part of what you were saying like that There are some for things that fortune luck. You know we all didn't get leukemia as little kids and I had shot the drive by as a little kid and also there are just parts of the world like a lot of what you're saying really applies to like first world advanced countries that there you could be in a country that's just a war-torn third world country and you're screwed no matter what you do but so it'd be silly to dismiss that but it's also equally ridiculous to dismiss the other aspect to it that like, okay, there are every person, every single person who's successful has conquered self pity.

Because like everybody's had points in their lives where they've just felt really bad for themselves. We've all had it. We all do it. It's a part of human nature. That's right. But it's also poison and anybody who's successful has learned how to conquer that and not just sit here and feel bad for yourself and to say, Nope, I'm going to take control of this. I'm going to, no matter what happened to me, I'm going to not focus on that. I'm going to focus on what I can control. And the problem is that on, on either side, if you dismiss one of them, you, you come to really stupid conclusions. 100%. And it's not lost on me, the irony of two rich white guys,

one of them smoking a cigar talking about this. I would say I'm climbing my way toward there. I don't know if I have rich, by global standards, sure. Bro, you're fucking killing it. Shut your mouth. By global standards, I'm on Elon Musk level. Yeah, I mean, I'm poor compared to Elon. Shut your mouth. Like global standards, I'm on Elon Musk level. That's true.

I'm poor compared to Elon. That is true. You are broke. I'm so broke. Do you think he laughs about you, like when you're not there? Yes! He's like, because I got Rogan coming over to the house, put away the good China.

How does he eat? Because, oh God, the Rogans are coming. There's levels of people. I'm friends now, this is a bizarre thing to say, with multiple billionaires Yeah, I know multiple guys that are billionaires and they're very nice people They're very nice and I could see how it happens, but you're also friends with the cool billionaires Yeah, you know like you managed to find the cool ones. Well, Elon's the coolest. He's my favorite billionaire that that dude's wild

He's a wild boy. I will buy Teslas as long as they sell them, just to support that dude. Just to keep Twitter going. And they're dope. But yeah, just to support him, man. You, god damn it, you need an Elon Musk in this world. You need a wild boy. You need a dude who's got $200 billion

who dunks on people. How great was watching him realize in real time how stupid Don Lemon is? Oh my God. Like you could actually see on his face as he's asking the questions and he's like, well if you lower standards, then you're gonna get more incompetence.

And Don Lemon's like, so you're saying black people aren't competent? And he's like, no, that's no. And he slowly starts to realize like, oh, I have 80 IQ points on this guy. It's not just that. He set a very important point. He said that Don Lemon was doing CNN outside of CNN.

Yep. And you don't have to do that. You just don't, nobody wants that anymore. I'd say you can't do that. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. But more importantly, you shouldn't do it because it's not good for you. Just be a human.

Don't be this thing, this journalistic, probing, bullshit thing that's trying to spin a narrative. Actually have a conversation with this human. You will probably agree with a lot of the things he says. You will understand his perspective even if you disagree. You could see how an intelligent person would come to this conclusion. This is how we can talk to each other now We don't have to be confined by these five-minute segments where you have producers and executives that are pushing an agenda That's on a network that's run by a bunch of huge fucking corporations that have a vested interest in swaying the narrative one way or the other You don't have to do that anymore. Yeah, That's not necessary. It's bad for people.

It's bad for humanity. It's a bad way to distribute information. It is literal propaganda, whether you think it is or not. Oh, dude, I mean, I've even, I mean, I've done like a fair amount of like cable news shows. And, you know, they'll do these things where it's like a panel, and there'll be like three people on the panel

and the person hosting the show. And nothing, like there's some people who I really like who I've been on their shows but it's like you're trying to talk about the most important topics and everyone gets 20 seconds it's so ridiculous I want you to imagine a scenario imagine this scenario where COVID breaks out. And for whatever reason, the mainstream media is saying that we should be very careful about experimental drugs. And they start, these journalists,

start bringing up all these stories about different drugs, where you could see how they chose very specific tests, and that some of their tests, some of their studies didn't go well at all and they buried those and they're allowed to do so. And about how they've killed thousands and thousands of people with these drugs they knew were bad for them. And if the journalists were saying this, but the podcasters were all going, you need to trust the science.

Everyone should be vaccinated. Be vaccinated or you're a fucking plague rat Imagine imagine if the podcasters were calling the unvaccinated plague rats imagine if the podcasters were encouraging medical misinformation doesn't it there was but but one of my point is Imagine the backlash right now where there's none Imagine the backlash right now where there's none coming their way. Yeah. There's zero.

It's like everyone forgot about it. It all went away. Well, I'm debating Chris Cuomo. We would be in jail. I'll be debating Chris Cuomo in a few days. That'll be fun. But we would be in jail. All these people that are dropping dead, all these people with strokes, all these people

with heart attacks, all these people with strokes, all these people with heart attacks, all these people with... What was the AstraZeneca thing that I sent you today? Yeah, yeah, yeah, what was it? AstraZeneca, they were saying that 11% of the people had an adverse side effect? Like serious, adverse side effects, yeah. But even as you lay out this scenario,

doesn't it almost in some way be like, it feels like that makes more sense? What would make more sense was that comedians like me and you would have just been saying the dumb thing and repeating it. But the person in a suit and tie at CNN, I mean, this dude's a professional newsman. Like he knows what's going on. They would make a very good argument for ending podcasts.

Sure. They'd make a very good argument for prosecuting people, class action lawsuits, all the people that encourage these podcasters with their limited, you don't even have a medical degree and you're on the internet telling people what to do, which is exactly what they did. They did, even though we were getting everything right and now most of them will admit that we were right. Now when you see Chris Cromwell and Patrick Bette-David spinning it.

Listen, I don't wanna go too hard right now because I want him to show up. But the fact that, the fact that, and I will make sure to bring this up to him, but the fact that when he, what he said, and if you listen to it, he literally goes, as he's explaining that he is on iverm Ivermectin, he goes, now, a lot of people are going to say Joe Rogan is right. And, and then he has a moment where he pauses realizes he can't even come up with

anything. And he goes, all right, Joe Rogan was right. And then goes on to say exactly what you've been saying for years now that just the most basic thing that anyone who did five minutes of research could have figured out which there's no Controversy in any of this that ivermectin has been given to humans Billions of times that it's a safe drug and that there were some indications that it might help with COVID and that it's not horse dewormer and that and but the fact that that's not attached to like a profuse Apology be like hey And that and but the fact that that's not attached to like a profuse apology Be like hey, I'm like if I I couldn't imagine a scenario where I had like viciously

smeared someone for something then realized he was 100% right and I was 100% wrong and when Acknowledging that I wouldn't also go. Hey, I'm really sorry about you. I think there's a cult-like thinking in mainstream media, whether they know they're being influenced by their sponsors or they're not. But I don't even think they understand how crazy it is. When I had Sanjay Gupta on, Sanjay Gupta is a very nice man. I think he's a good man.

I really do. And he's a surgeon. I mean, he's very busy. The guy is constantly working. And he comes in surgeon. I mean, he's very busy. The guy is constantly working. And he comes in to give medical information and give this, you know, lay things out for CNN. And I think he thinks he's doing the right thing. When they asked him to be on the podcast, I don't know what they thought was going to

happen. I don't think they, I think they thought they were right. I really do I think my my guess and this is just a guess But I have been in that world a little bit like I worked for CNN for a year and I've done a lot of shows on Fox News and I've met a lot of people, you know and and talked to a lot of people who work at CNN and Fox News and my

My guess on it is that, number one, he had a book. So they wanna sell copies of the book and they know you have the biggest show. And so they're like, oh, this will be really good. And then I also think there's this thing where they all, yeah, they all really do feel like we're the experts. And they know they're the experts because, I mean, I just got off the phone with the chief of staff

of the White House and I know, they're very into that, kind of like that world where I've talked to everyone with status. And I think there's hubris involved, where they're like, you'll be able to handle whatever a comedian throws at you. Like, you're a medical expert, and he's not. But then you would just ask really basic questions,

which my favorite was when he goes, so are you going to get the vaccine? And you were like, well, no, I just had COVID, I have natural immunity. And you were like, why should I get the vaccine? And he had no answer. And this was at a time when they were rolling out vaccine passports and he, he just, the whole line was just, you have to get the vaccine, or you're a bad person. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

And then he just demonstrated on your show that there was this huge category of people, people who have had COVID already, who he had no argument for why they should get the thing. Not only that, there had already been research. It showed that natural immunity from previous infection was up to seven times better at preventing new cases. Which is consistent across viruses

Like it's always better to have natural immunity that the vaccine is always trying to simulate natural. This is what was so fucked Look, I'm no scholar. I'm not a smart guy. I'm a normal person I'm there's nothing special about my brain and I'm seeing all this stuff and I'm seeing all this stuff And I'm like why isn't anybody speak? I started to feel like I was going crazy like am I going crazy for not just letting them shoot me up with this stuff? After I got kofi just so I let everybody know I'm on the team right because there's this poll There's a fucking societal poll that even me even even me who was like, I know this is ridiculous. This is making, all the people I've talked to,

all the research I've done on previous diseases, and my research is reading other people's, I don't, I'm doing, it's a bad word. But all the reading that I've done, Jimmy Dore has a great bit about that. Oh, it's so funny, I love it. Don't do your own research. It used to be called reading.

Jimmy Dore is awesome, I love him. Love Jimmy Dore, is a great bit. In my limited looking at this, I was like something's wrong here. There's this mass societal push. People are, they're trapped in like a mind virus of this one particular solution. And Dr. Robert Malone laid what that out what what that

is like psychologically what happens when one thing is offered that seems to be the solution out of this existential crisis horrible situation that we're in and anybody who opposes that opposes getting out and you got to be on that side all in and you got to believe Even in the pharmaceutical drug companies and like there's there's this weird, you know, cuz we're weird social Psychological creatures and you know if you think about like the Milgram Experiments and how what people will do if there's a person in a white coat telling them to do it Yeah, and part of like the culture in the Milgram thing

So people don't know. So the experiment was kind of like, basically they come in and they're like, okay, you're here for some type of scientific experiment. I forget exactly how they described to them, but they're testing negative reinforcement within learning or something like that. And so they have a guy in a white coat

and he tells you every time a guy gets an answer wrong or something like this, you're supposed to push the button and it zaps him and they keep pushing the button and it, and the person, you can't see him, but they're like behind a wall or something keeps hollering in pain and it gets worse and worse and worse. And for the experiment, I think there were a few people who like refused after a while, but the overwhelming majority of people would keep zapping them until they Seemingly died yeah, because they stopped hollering in pain

And then they would tell him to do it again And they would just keep doing it because there's like an authority figure here and this guy's got a white coat on and They kind of in these corporate media environments, and I don't want to discount I'm not discounting the conspiracy aspect of this because I also think there are people within these agencies who are straight-up like intelligence assets and are know exactly what they're doing but I think for the most part it's like they create this culture of like well all the wise people who by the way you get to go to a

cocktail party with this really like this guy with all this status and he's that leading expert in this and they all say this. So are you a respectable person, or are you like an outcast who doesn't agree with this conventional wisdom? And people fall in line with that shit, man. They fall in line with it. They really do.

Even people who really, really should know better. Yeah, but it's become socially their group too, and then you get influenced by the group socially. Well, this is one of the things I'm really interested to talk to Chris Cuomo about. And by the way, that's on Patrick Bette David's show on the 31st. But, you know, these guys,

I'm kind of fascinated by the people in the corporate press, as much contempt as I have for them, because it's amazing to be working, you're working in this industry where, okay, before COVID, the corporate media had the lowest approval numbers since they've been keeping track of them. Like, trust in media had evaporated. There was the war with Donald Trump.

That's really what it was. It's like social media was all controlled by the left-wing media, and the left-wing media was all in on this war against Donald Trump. There's a huge part of it. I mean, I would say the backdrop is the war on terror, the terror wars, getting all of that wrong, the financial crisis, not seeing that coming

and kind of getting that all wrong. The weapons of mass destruction thing. Yeah, that's all that stuff, Iraq and Afghanistan being disasters. So that's kind of in the backdrop, and then you have the worst financial crisis in 100 years, so that happened. But then, there's no question, I mean, and particularly not just the war with Donald Trump,

but particularly the allegation of a conspiracy with Russia, that they said every single day, all day for three years long. I mean, if you think about it, it's the big, if true, it's the biggest news story in the history of the United States of America. They're claiming that the current sitting president is guilty of treason.

He was installed by a hostile foreign power who overthrew our elections in order to install him. It was quite a claim to run with 24-7. And then to find out after three years that we have nothing, not like there's nothing, no evidence pointing toward this conspiracy even existing. So that their trust had already evaporated, but then after COVID, they will never recover. But people will still go on Bill Maher and argue this.

They'll still say there's evidence. It's like people still want to say there's evidence. Not only isn't there- They'll still say it. There's not even evidence that Vladimir Putin interfered in the 2016 election. The best they have is like, there are some bot farms that they can trace to Russian IP addresses, which is like, I'm not a tech guy, Jamie, you know this better than me,

but they say it's the easiest thing to fake, is an IP address. The fact that an IP address traces to Russia is like almost more Indicative that someone's trying to frame Russia than it is that Russia was involved, but even the guys who they got Imagine if we found out that he knew was Imagine we found out that the the Russian troll farms were like completely insignificant And it's all just like government controlled troll farms Well, I mean look even if they were all from Vladimir Putin, they were fairly insignificant in terms

of interfering in elections with other countries and how it works. Well, the most effective strategy was funny memes. Yeah. Yeah, right. I mean, it really was a very effective strategy, because when you mock something, it makes it much more easy to dismiss

that in terms of whether or not that's the right choice for president. If someone can like openly mocks and why do you think they openly mock Donald Trump's they even made stuff up like about his hand size yeah remember they were there was this thing that he had little hands dude I was shaking his hands he's got normal fucking hands he's a guy like he's well he's got a big hand I was like this is the most I remember the first time I shook his hands like this is the most ridiculous thing well look at everybody said he has little hands Mocking people is a powerful tool dude

It's a very crazy one because you're mocking something that someone can't change this is always against that's against left-wing Ideology not when it serves purposes right, but that's the thing right just like you're willing to violate the rules Yeah Leftist. Not when it serves the purposes. Right, but that's the thing. Right. Just like you're willing to violate the rules. Yeah. For your side to win. Because progressives are really supposed to be against body shaming. You're supposed to be kind.

You're supposed to not mock a person's appearance. Why would you do, especially like what they're born with, the hand size and the dick size, like really, that's okay to mock? Dude, there was a segment. I remember watching this It was in the 2016 election and it was on Joy Reid's show on MSNBC Her show at the time whatever it was and she had a whole segment about Like how sexist the coverage of Hillary Clinton was and it was you know every time they'll say she's shrill or she's this

But if a man was like that it'd be this and she went through all these words that have been used to cover Hillary Clinton and how they're loaded sexist phrases and all this and then at the end of her show she has this segment called who won the week and all the guests on the panel get to pick their own like what happened this week and her choice, not one of the people on the panel, her choice of who won the week was this guy in Union Square who made a naked statue of Donald Trump with a micro penis and was just like literally like just making a thing like aha, he's got a little dick.

And after literally her last segment was on the sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton And then her next pick for who won the week was a guy mocking Trump for having a micro penis But he just made up and made a statue of and she did not even like seem to see the contradiction in any of that But you just said this it's beautiful It's fun. It's fun. It's fun to watch. I'm glad those people exist. They're fun. They're fun to watch because they're so ridiculous and they're so fake and it comes off. It's obvious that they're not They're not really engaged

They're not really talking about it like a human. They're just Propagandists and that's the only way you can do that job If you want to do that job You have to be a propagandist or you have to be some sort of straight-faced Jake Tapper, dude Who just kind of like straight faces everything but if you want, you know, you want to have the joy read show? Yeah, you gotta go you gotta go for it. You gotta shake joy read things. What was that one? She got in some bizarre argument with some woman Recently, I think was a transgender issue. Was that what it was Jamie?

where it was like it issue. Was that what it was, Jamie? Where it was like, it went viral. Because like, I forget what the debate was about, but I remember it being just a preposterous argument. The way she was looking at it. Yeah, she's pretty out there. I'm not sure what segment you're referring to, but she's got a whole lot. But it's-

Whole lot of great hits. It's not, yeah, it's like you have to be on that network. Like you can't exist in the podcast world. Yeah. It's not, what is it? I don't know, is there something newer than this? Absurd argument, Republicans vote on race night. No, that's not it, no. I should've saved it.

I probably did save it somewhere on my phone. I could find it, but it's just these it was I believe it was some sort of a trans issue if I'm correct But it's just these fucking people on these shows are trapped You're trapped you're trapped in this world of five minutes. You're trapped in this world of commercials You're trapped in this world of networks and executives you trapped in this world of networks and executives. You're trapped. And if you wanna make it, you gotta be full of shit. You gotta be full of shit. That's the gig.

And it's just like, you point this out all the time, but it's just not enough time to have a real conversation. It's impossible. Dude, I did a debate for Zero Hedge a couple months ago on like the Israel-Gaza conflict, and it was a two-on-two debate, and it was two hours long. And the only thing I could think at the end of it was,

that just wasn't nearly enough time. It's like two hours and four people. You get like a half hour, roughly not, I don't know exactly if we all spoke even time, but roughly a half hour each. That's not nearly enough to go through the history of all this shit and what's going on now and to really make your points.

And that's a two hour debate. They'll do that same segment on the news in 10 minutes, five minutes. They're like, this is insane. It's insanity. You're just trying to hit whatever the best point you can hit is. And in the same way that Twitter,

I mean now you could post longer stuff, but you know what, Twitter, just because it's short, it like pushes you into like saying just whatever just can destroy that guy And one sentence it's like it pushes you into that. It's it's just not headlines Yeah, that's all you can do and when you're dealing with something like this just the depth of it all is just so perplexing you know when you just lay out like when Mike Baker's on and he lays out the history of like Palestine and Israel and the conflict and Egypt and this and that and Hamas and

Hezbollah and he lays it all, you're like, Jesus Christ, there's so many layers to this fucking cake. Yeah. And most people are just getting, free Palestine, from the river to the sea, yay. You know, you're just getting these slogans that you yell out and you're seeing, who knows how much of what you're seeing is even real today.

I mean- Well, you mean like with the protests? With the footage, the footage. Footage of things. Even footage of, like people fake things now now and they fake things specifically for propaganda and then they hide things. One of the most terrifying videos I saw recently was one of the Israeli hostages. She was in the back of a Jeep and they drag her out by

her hair and she's got blood all over her and they had hacked her heels to make sure she couldn't run. Bro, it's so terrifying. It's so, and they're all screaming, God is great, Allah Akbar. Oh, man. Yeah, dude, I know, I think there's a thing, I don't know if I could word this exactly right, but I think there's, for some reason,

I think comedians have this thing that they're kind of able to go to these places. Do you remember, you remember when you had Bill Burr on your show and you played this video, I don't know why I just loved this moment so much, but you played this video of a dude like ripping something out of a little girl's hand and it was something like the guy like, she had a piece of paper or something

and he was way aggressive. I think it was a protest. Yeah, it was like a grown man going up to like a little girl and ripping it out and you Like immediately you were like oh man That'd be real bad if that was my kid like I'd be in jail the next day or that and then burr was like He was like oh you went to a dark place there and you're like yeah I do that a lot and he was like I do that all the time It's just something about like comedians for whatever reason do that also parents. Yeah, well that particularly but I just

It's just very easy for me I don't know why this always just came very natural to me Whereas I think some people have so much trouble with this But it's very easy for me to do this on both sides of this conflict to just go. Okay, like I got two little kids I could just just start to imagine if somebody did something in one of my little kids and I wasn't able to protect them and What I'd be willing to do like how dark a place I could go to and it's just like immediately very easy to me to see how anyone in Israel after October 7th would support fucking flatten Gaza and how anyone in Palestine after what's going on the last 50 years there would

be like yeah I'll sign up for Hamas I'll support these guys who are going to do this shit now I do think this is the point that both sides well both sides for sure Which is the release what's the most scary thing about the conflict sure? Well, that's and that's why it's gotten to such a bad point right because like this is the cycle that keeps going But I do think this is what Darrell Cooper who like I I brought him up last time I was on he has that fantastic series called a fear and loathing and the New Jerusalem And he's just totally brilliant. I love that guy, but he He has that fantastic series called The Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem. And he's just totally brilliant. I love that guy.

But he said, and I think this is right, is that he's like, okay, so you can totally see where if you're on either side there, you'd just be like, I don't care, I see red, I wanna kill as many of the other side as I can. But for us, as Americans who are not in that situation, it's kind of incumbent on us to be like, okay, let's try to kind of have a sober analysis of this

and not do what so many people seem to do, which is like, almost try to just like egg on the other side and cheer on their side. And then this total like demonization of either all of the Palestinians, like they're all just human garbage or all Jews are whatever evil or something like this. Yeah, young kids in America who are Jewish are complicit.

They're somehow or another responsible. Yeah, which is like totally ridiculous. You see Jerry Seinfeld, they're hackling at his shows now. There's like some organized protests that came to his show and they were screaming out in the middle of his show. It's also just like, guys, like take it, look. Like I understand wanting to protest this this war I got my issues with the the young college leftists who are protesting it. They're not my

people exactly But like you know, there's an Israeli embassy here. There's a Congress There's like take it at least to the halls of power like I don't think Jerry's not ruining You know like other people's ability to enjoy Seinfeld stand-up show is really gonna solve the issue. Yeah, because they're not really thinking well. No, of course not. And most of these people that do this, they come from wealthy families. They're young, really idealistic kids, and they glue themselves to paintings.

And they throw fucking soup at masterpieces. Did you see the one Stop Oil Now person sliced up this fucking painting from the 1800s? Some priceless painting. Just pulled out a razor knife and just started slashing this thing up. Isn't it weird if sometimes it feels like they're like each side's foot soldiers are working for the other side? You know what I mean? Like when you do stuff like that, you're almost like, I just want to drill for more oil now.

Well, this is the problem with teams man This is a problem with teams if you have a team that anybody can join like if the the Republicans are basically like the Christians They'll take anybody you have anybody you know if you want to be a Jew you got to go to work Okay, you got to learn a bunch of shit my uncle converted They make you work. Yeah to work You got to fucking learn some stuff. I remember I was doing this episode of Joe Rogan Questions Everything, where I was talking to religious people of a bunch of different religious sects and religious

scholars. And I was talking to this one guy who was a rabbi. And there was a woman there that was converting to Judaism. And I got to ask her questions about like how she's doing it And like how hard it is and like it's fucking you. It's like getting your pilot slices or something It's a lot of fucking shit. You gotta remember It's like it's like the way citizenship is we're like when you're born Jewish like I am or born an American like I am and you're Like oh man. I couldn't have passed that test. It's a good thing. I was born into the fucking test

Yeah, they really they make you work Well, I think the Jewish ones harder than the American one. Yeah, probably but the American well these days You could just walk in but but if you don't walk in you're fucked Yeah, you don't walk in then if that you fly in from Europe, they're like, uh-uh you food first class We're just we're gonna make it really hard for you to become a citizen By the way, it sums up everything about modern-day America Anarcho tyranny. Yeah, it's just there's kind day America. Anarcho-tyranny. It's just like, it's like you have the worst of anarchism

and tyranny all in one, where if you follow the rules, you get totally fucked, and if you just ignore the rules, you get rewarded. The worst incentives. And everybody wants to be on a team. So if you have a team that's open to anybody, you're gonna get the dumbest fucking people that are super enthusiastic About that team. Yeah, and they're gonna ruin everything and they do with everything do it on the right and they do it on the left

That's why I say my message is always reject the teams and come be a libertarian and lose with me. Just keep losing Come and just enjoy losing. There's something freeing about knowing you're not gonna win they're the most reasonable people I talked to politically yeah but is also like but it's also the system is so deep like you again and well that's the the real question I mean there's almost like to figuring out what the solution is is almost the easy part and then actually figuring out how to implement it We have to land they have to literally have to land enough because we're like on our way to a kingship We're on our way on our way I just has to be like listen we read all of the books in human history and we figured this out pretty quickly That might be the thing that saves us and ruins us at the same time is president AI

President a president AI will be logical. And if it's on the blockchain, we'll know exactly if president AI is being influenced by money. Wouldn't it be great if AI just turns out to be as human as us and is just corrupted? And they're like, president AI got a blow job in the Oval Office, and the power went to his head. He just started making AI whores.

He's got to give a press conference. He's like, I don't know what I was thinking, man. I was pretty good until I got in there. The ring of power just ruins everyone. We are going to bypass biological needs, and we're going to do it pretty soon. It's going to be real soon. Regular sex is going to seem ridiculous in 20 years.

We're going to be the old school guys who are like, I still do sex the old fashioned way with my wife. And people are gonna be like, what? I remember when I was in high school, we got hand jobs. These kids are fucking robots. Even their sex.

People are gonna be like, you have sex with your wife? That's insane, dude. How are you doing that? What if you guys get diseased? People die from those diseases. I do think like, I mean, look, obviously like I'm biased on the, like I have my own opinions on these things. But I do just think that one of the things

that I've found kind of amazing, and I've thought this with some of the people who have come on your show since the last time I was here, is the way that people can defend what Israel's doing in Gaza does kind of blow my mind. It blows my mind too. Because it reminds you that it's like, you're like, oh, okay, look, throughout all of human history, right,

I'm not saying there's anything unique to Israel, like they're the only ones to ever commit atrocities or that they're not dealing with atrocities committed to them. What they're doing is super standard. Sure, in some sense, yeah. In terms of like World Wars, in terms of, like, Dresden. Well, yeah, if you could, but that's the thing. If you compare it to the worst things that have ever happened

in the history of the world. But I'm just saying, throughout all of human history, there's been atrocities and there's been genocides and ethnic cleansing campaigns and slavery and all, but at every single point, there was someone there willing to rationalize it. You know, like someone there who would be like, no, no, no, listen, this is what we

have to do because otherwise this, and it's amazing the mental gymnastics that people can come up with to justify something that is so clearly on its face. Just horrific. But I think the difference is back then, your understanding of it was much more limited. Yeah, you weren't watching videos on it They didn't exist if you saw it on television on the movie theater. It'd be a small clip that was played and Every and it was played before the film, but everyone knew that the reason why we're here is because people went to war in one or You escaped a war ravaged country and you came to America

Everyone knew it everyone had an understanding of that. So when we were at war people were signing up to go to war There was no need to draft them by the time Vietnam rolled around people were starting to get more information And they go hey, I think this is a bullshit war which is like the first time ever in this short history of our country, where we're like, Hey, this one sucks. It was kind of no defending it. It was. And then when you find out they were right at the, at the end of it all, when you find out many, many years later, the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag. You're like, what?

Which they didn't even need in order to be right. But then you find out, you're like, Oh, the whole thing was a whole thing. And then you go. What did you guys do with all that heroin money? Yeah, where did all that money go because if I was the government and I was willing just imagine if Eisenhower's correct, which is insane How could he be and that there was a real influence of military industrial complex if I was was the military industrial complex and I was willing to fucking start a war with North Vietnam for no fucking reason, for no reason. So 100% I'm going to kill X amount of people and a bunch of Americans. And then you're going to actually make these people, these Americans,

you're going to draft them and force them to go because they don't want to go. You don't think I'd sell heroin? like that would be your line? Do you drink? Do you drink? Narcotics? Hold on how much of these guys making? yeah how much of these fucking dudes making? how much? a lot. how many billions? this is of what percentage of the world's heroin supply? And then when you see the same trick played out in Afghanistan, when you like, my favorite was Geraldo Rivera interviewing the troops rationalizing why they had to guard the poppy fields. Why they had to guard the poppy fields. They have to guard the heroin. Yeah.

For the good folks. Well, I couldn't, this heroin falls into the wrong hands. It could be lethal. There's no way America would sell this heroin. Yeah. into the wrong hands, it could be lethal. There's no way America would sell this heroin. There's no way. The output of heroin out of Afghanistan, I wanna say it was a 96% increase. 80% global supply. See, you're exaggerating, Joe. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

It was responsible for 80%. Ooh, yeah. It was responsible for most of the global supply of heroin, and the production went up after we invaded. So opium poppy, which grows extensively in Afghanistan, southern fields, contains main opium ingredient used to manufacture heroin. Afghanistan was previously the world's top opium producer,

responsible for over 80% of the global supply and a major source of heroin in Europe and Asia So how much did it go? Oh plunges by 95% when was this? Under the Taliban now that's now. Yeah. Yeah, see the Taliban doesn't want everybody on heroin They want people to get back to work and make Afghanistan great again again They fucking kicked out the drug dealers, that's what happened Yeah kicked out the drug dealers dude They were there was a giant part of the supply of heroin to the world the idea that we didn't well

We are not interested in that at all. We just want to push freedom Yeah, and I think even people who are even the people I think who are lying about this shit rationalize it in their own head. Bro, where'd that money go? Yeah, well, that's a... Where'd all that heroin money go? Well, I know you were, I was listening to the Mike Baker podcast you had on

where you were talking about the, like, the money in Ukraine and where it went, and he even, he was like, ah, yeah, no, we don't really know where that... I thought one of the funniest things about that... I'll tell you where some of it goes. Well, that's for sure. Whoo tell you where some of it goes. Well, that's for sure.

Woo! I think that's for sure. The Taliban, it's not our tax dollars have 100% paid for some cocaine. Oh, certainly. The Taliban's successful opium ban is bad for Afghans and the world. Ha ha ha ha ha ha hanarcotics victory and will have negative economic and humanitarian consequences potentially leading to a refugee crisis. Oh, unlike us leaving

in the middle of nowhere allowing the Taliban to kill all the people we worked with. But you get my point about how humans can rationalize anything. They can just come up with propaganda. Well yes, of course. That's propaganda. Yes, that's true. That's also true, but even people who are like I mean I like Look, I thought you only way you could say that that whether God made sense is if you're advocating that heroin should be legal Yes, but those they were advocating and heroin should be legal. This is your full perspective. Okay now accept it

but if you really think that heroin is a scourge, and if you really do appreciate that a hundred Thousand people died last year of opioid overdoses a hundred thousand. It's a real fucking crisis Yeah, if there was a disease killing a hundred thousand people we would freak the fuck out well look I mean I do think there's a strong argument for Legalization, but there's also a difference between that and the government kind of like sponsoring damn this is a 90% of heroin globally in more than 95% of the European supply More land is used for opiate in Afghanistan that is used for coca cultivation in Latin America

Bro, do you don't think that has something to do with it? Is that am I silly? No, I think it's insane to ignore that. I mean like I have money. Yeah Ran Paul I thought this was so funny. It was during one of the rounds of Aid to Ukraine and ran Paul stood up and said look we We don't know where any of this money's going. If we're gonna send them this money, can we at least have an inspector general so that we itemize, like, where all the money is going?

And it failed. The vote failed. Like, even in the Senate... Of course it failed. That's communist talk. Yeah, like, even in the Senate, they were like, what? What are you talking about? Communist talk. We're gonna know where our money's going? Nah, that's lame

Yeah, we don't send it over there. Just send them that shit send them everything they need and more and then do you have one of? Their flags you should wave it around. Yeah, and we'll provide the Congress will provide the flags Don't worry flags. They're all uniform same size. It's not like people bought them from different vendors No, they all got it from the same. Well, they out a box of them Hey, make sure you guys grab your flags It's fucking bonkers. It's also just so the thing that's so wild to me is that after And I know I've talked about this I'm sure on previous episodes But just after 20 years of the terror wars and what a disaster those were and to the point that everyone agreed John McCain Wrote in his memoir that the war in Iraq was a mistake.

That's how universally agreed upon it is. Which is hilarious. Even John McCain would acknowledge we got that one wrong. And it's not like anyone else is defending any of the other terror wars at this point. But then as soon as we kind of get out of them, we're not even fully out, but we're mostly out, we just get into these proxy wars in Ukraine and now in Israel that are clearly wars

of choice for America. Like we don't have to be involved in these. We're just still deciding to continue this war machine going. These last two are really important. When they get done, we're done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. These last two. This is it.

This is it. Right. You know, it's a... Anyway, man, I do, I will say that I think um a lot of a lot of the defense of the the war in Gaza Which I kind of feel we are even calling a war because it's not it doesn't exactly feel like that's what the term Well, it's like the Bill Hicks joke. It's only a war when two armies are fighting. Well, right remember that joke. Yeah About Iraq they say hello Bill Iraq is the fourth largest army goes yeah but after number three there's a big drop-off he goes the Salvation Army's

number five that's a great bit it's a great bit well I mean but great but in the case but in the case of Gaza it's not even like there's not even a government I mean there are stateless people who have been captive by the Israelis since 1967 and then they're captive politically in their own country by Hamas Right, and then Hamas does do what this this accusation is that they they have their bases under schools and hospitals They actually do do that. Yeah, I think it's it's certainly bases under schools and hospitals, they actually do do that. Yeah, I think it's certainly exaggerated at times

by the Israelis, but there is no question that they are, look, they're in this, Gaza is, dude, it's five miles wide. I know, it's crazy. Gaza's, you know, like, so little. You could jog from one side to the other without taking a break. It's literally way closer. Way smaller than here to my club.

Yeah. Now imagine that. Yeah now imagine that Imagine imagine like an extra 10 miles Yeah, that small tract of land in the last five miles is what's getting the fuck blown out of it It is it's it's I think 25 by 5 so it's like a marathon by a jog You know what I mean like that's how's how... That's Gaza. And so... No, look, so I'm just saying part of this, and this isn't... I'm not, like, making any excuses. I mean, there's no question there have been incidents

of Hamas, like, embedding themselves in civilian locations. But also, it's not as if they have a military or a government. It's not as if there's gonna be two armies that meet themselves on the battlefield here. There is one is... Hamas is essentially a gang in an Israeli prison that like rose up as the toughest gang there and Yeah, then in such a densely populated area

That's the way as they call it asymmetric warfare is gonna work Um, I do look man I because I do I took issue with like a few things that some of the guests you've had on recently I've said like um I know I think all of this a lot of times it comes down to framing Like how you want to look at an issue and particularly the people who are way behind Israel on this I feel like always rely on this very strange framing So they don't have to confront exactly what's going on and they can kind of look at it in more of an abstract removed way like when you had a, I'm sorry if I'm saying his name wrong,

but Gad, how do you say his last name? Saad, Gad, I've read his stuff before, but I don't, I always butt your names. But so one of the things he said, which I know I've heard this in every debate I've done on the topic so far, but he said the same thing Dennis Prager said to me when we debated, was he was like, well look, if Israel laid down all their arms,

there'd be a genocide. If Hamas laid down all their arms, there'd be peace. And forget the fact that I will say I don't agree with the second part of that, I don't think that's clear at all. I think if Hamas laid down all their arms, which essentially the Palestinians are as close to have laid down all their arms as could be. Palestinians are as close to have laid

down all their arms as could be. Isn't everyone looking at it too binary? Well, yeah. Even if you're supporting the Israelis, even if you're from that position, you have to acknowledge the attacks on AIDS workers. It seems to be there's a bunch of targeted attacks on people bringing in food. Like Jose Andres's people. And then there's been more of those. Like there's all these, I think, how many documented attacks are there on aid supply? Because it's a big number.

There's been several, I know, for sure. I think it's a big number. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's been hard. It's creepy. Well, I remember when you had, anyway, just the point I was making about Gad's thing is that it's also this like, I just hate when people retreat to almost these hypotheticals. It reminds me of Sam Harris's argument

about why you were really wrong with the, at least eight times. Eight times. Yeah, that's a lot. So eight times Israeli forces have attacked humanitarian aid convoys and Buildings in the Gaza Strip at least eight times since October despite being given Coordinates to ensure their protection human rights watch has set in a new report

So they're targeting these people some so you've got some Members of the Israeli military that don't give a fuck and they want to stop these people from getting food And well look and this has kind of been like Aged on look there'll be so much like scrutiny over Like some college kids chanting from the river to the sea and long but for the record if I was in charge of those protests I'd say stop chanting that because even if you don't mean it to mean the Jews Oh, even if you don't mean it that way which some people will will argue they don't, and that's fine, maybe that's not what you mean. Maybe you mean is, from the river to the sea,

everyone will be free and whatever. Maybe that's how you mean it. But it's also the same thing Hamas chants, and they clearly mean something else when they say that. So like, maybe just use a different term. Right, you can't use a swastika for its old-timey use. Right, it's like, if nothing else, that's a bad idea. However, for all the scrutiny there'll be

over what these 20-year-olds are hollering at Columbia, when Benjamin Netanyahu is saying they're amelek as you're going into this area, which, you know, the story from the Bible is that you're supposed to kill the women and the children. And the story is that they fucked up by not killing all the women and the children. And then, like, they came back.

And, like, now, even if you could argue he doesn't mean it that way, it's like, okay, but you're saying that... Is amelek the story from the children. And then like they came back and like, no, even if you could argue he doesn't mean it that way, it's like, okay, but you're saying that- Ameliect the story from the Bible? The story is they were like a tribe who was like an evil tribe and you had to kill all of them, kill the women and the children. And that's the specific like lesson of that story

is that you're supposed to kill the women and the children. And then you conduct a campaign like this. This is by the way, this is what was in the South Africa case that they brought to the UN and that they, you know, the ICJ basically said that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide. And they didn't exactly, you know, they haven't yet determined that it is or isn't,

but they said it's plausible. But anyway, my point that I'm making about what Saad was saying is that it reminds me of Sam Harris, where he sits here and he goes, well, imagine this hypothetical. Imagine COVID was 100 times as deadly and the vaccine was perfect against stopping transmission and there were no vaccine injuries.

Well, hey, now you don't look so good anymore, do you, Joe Rogan? No, he wasn't saying that. He was saying, you could, when someone's saying you could never mandate a vaccine or argue for a mandate, and he was saying if there was a vaccine, he was making an intellectual argument, he's correct, that you could argue that if there was a vaccine

that had zero side effects and was 100% effective, and if everybody took it, the disease stops, you could make that argument. Well, what he was saying was that, then how would we feel, but he goes, then how would we feel about what Joe Rogan is saying and what RFK is saying when they were,

you know what I mean? But the point is that- The point is that thing doesn't exist. That's not the hypothetical, like, okay fine. Well, not only that, it doesn't exist in nature. Right, right. There's no vaccines that are 100% safe with no side effects. None of them.

I'm just saying I'm not against engaging in a thought experiment to think about what that scenario would look like, but at the same time, you're like, it does seem like that's serving in this case as a distraction from the real world scenario that's going on here. So if you're going to say, if Israel, like, yes, I would not recommend Israel lay down all of their arms, completely disarm themselves, and then open up the wall to Gaza and allow Hamas to come in. But that's not on the table.

That's never going to happen. So like, even thinking about that as a thought experiment doesn't really prove that much. What's actually going on here is like, what Israel is doing to Gaza. And you know. Right, but if you could flip it around, the opposite would be true.

Like if Hamas did lay down all their weapons, and if they did completely give up, you're gonna have some Israeli soldiers that do not give a fuck that still want to shoot them. But for the most part, if there was nothing, if they completely gave up, which is also not going to happen, but if that did happen, you couldn't see a situation where Israel just continues bombing.

Maybe not. But then where, what do they go to? Just being subjugated by the Israel, back to the status quo of just being a stateless people of permanent permanent refugees Right with no natural rights whatsoever. No ability to trade with the world. No ability to come and leave You can't have an airport. You can't have a seaport You can't go out fishing past where some IDF guy decides you're not allowed to so like yeah If if Hamas laid down all their arms, perhaps Israel would stop the bombing campaign, but they would just continue subjugation forever, which has been the Likud party official policy since they were created by the terrorist Menachem Begin.

Like literally since this party, that is the ruling party in Israel was created, their goal has been that the Palestinian people never get their own state, they never get their own freedom, and that's resulted in this and as you don't give them their own free there's no way you can justify it no way you can justify that a whole entire group of people never get to be a country that until they don't get the rights of the Israelis they don't get their rights of a sovereign country they're trapped nothing Literally no rights whatsoever. That's kind of crazy that that's being done by Israel,

if you really think about it. It's kind of crazy. Well, in some way, in a way it is, and then in another way, it's kind of not. It's kind of like there's this weird, you know, hurt people, hurt people type thing. Like, when you kind of suffer this trauma, and we're speaking collectively here,

so it's not exactly the same as an individual, but like, of suffer this trauma and and and we're speaking collectively here So it's not exactly the same as an individual But like you suffer this trauma and then you use that to justify doing whatever the hell you got to do so that you Never suffer that trauma again And then you weirdly end up kind of like inflicting something on another group of people and kind of in a weird way holding them Responsible for the trauma you suffered even though though they really, really hadn't very little nothing to do with the actual trauma. It's really an ancient kind of conflict. The Israel-Palestine is very, it's very ancient in the fact that it's like the hate between

them is so strong and they're right next door to each other, which is how people used to rock it back in the day. You know, I mean, that's, that was the fear of neighboring tribes, that people from the other side were gonna come over and rape the women and children and kill your babies and slaughter the men. And not like an irrational fear, like a fear based on if this really happens,

you know what I mean? And it's happening in Israel. I mean, that's what's crazy. The other thing though is that, and that's all true, but the other thing is that, you know crazy. The other thing, though, is that, and that's all true, but the other thing is that there are these examples, like where there's Ireland and England, and they're right next to each other,

and things are just cool now, and France and Germany are right next to each other, and they're just cool now. But Ireland and Northern Ireland were at war with each other forever. No, but I'm just making the point that, and then it's over, and now they're not at war anymore. And Egypt went to war with Israel four times

between the, was it 1948, 56, 67, and 72 or 73? Four times. Did I say that wrong? Was Ireland at war with Northern Ireland? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they were. Southern Ireland was at war. Well, they were the British controlled. Right.

But it was really England. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was by proxy England, basically dominating the Irish. And then by the way, the Irish turned to terrorism when they were being dominated by the English. Shocker. Yeah, which is another thing that people, another real interesting...

You have to do it, it's the only way to go to war. Well, look... If you have a smaller army and they have all the money, you gotta figure out a way to get them. Well, here's the craziest part of this, right? Is that, and I thought, we talked a bunch about the history of this last time I was on, but I don't think I mentioned this.

Maybe I did. But the craziest part of all of it is that the Israelis, I shouldn't say the Israelis, the Israelis five seconds before they became Israelis, like right before the creation of the State of Israel, they embraced terrorism. And by the way, these terrorists who are the leaders of these terrorist organizations like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, they went on to be prime ministers of Israel, but they

were terrorists. And I'm not like, I don't mean this as a pejorative, like self-described, like they embraced terrorism. What was their organization called? Menachem Bagans was the Ergun, that was his militia, and then there was Lehi or the Stern Gang, and then there was the Haganah, who was like the biggest one, and they were not quite as terroristic, but they also were involved in a bunch of it. And their justification for it

was to drive out the occupying force Which was the British at the time the after World War two the Zionists who were in Palestine? Were like had enough of the British Occupying the area and they were they were very angry because they had limited Jewish migration during the run-up to the Holocaust so they had a real beef with the British at this point, even though the British had kind of like allowed them to have a chance to establish a Jewish homeland there.

But so they embraced terrorism to drive them out. You can go look up the King David Hotel, killed a whole bunch of innocent people, including Jews in the hotel, because they just wanted to use terrorism to drive out an occupying force and that they actually introduced Terrorism into that region and many of the same tactics that the Palestinians went on to embrace were stuff that they picked up From the Jewish terrorists at that time

But then the same Israelis will turn around and be like well I don't know why these Palestinians have embraced terrorism and like they're telling you it's for the same reason It's to drive out an occupying force. Now of course the major difference there is that Israelis came to stay, whereas the British were there, you know, this was a satellite, they had their home country back in Europe, and they could be driven out.

It's a whole different thing to try to drive someone out who's like, no, we're setting up our homes here. But. And there's more of us. Yeah, well not that many. I mean, there's Palestinians and Israelis is pretty close, if you count all of them. Well, you're also backed by America.

Well, that's the major difference. Well, and so that's basically my essential argument is that America shouldn't be playing this role. And that's. This is being argued out now. Yeah. You know, this is a big point of contention now, politically, right?

Because the Biden administration is not giving the same amount of support to Israel that it was... They've been giving, basically, I mean, what's really going on is that Joe Biden, this is a disaster politically for Joe Biden, and something like, I mean, looking at the polls recently, 50% of his base. I think you and I have different Twitter followers.

Because my Twitter feed seems like he's doing a great job. Really, yeah, he's doing excellent. He's totally got it down. There's a lot of people that are arguing that. Did I send you? Creation of jobs. I sent you his latest clip from his speech that said, new Biden just dropped.

And it's the newest. Yes. The newest one, he goes, and by the way, it's not, he meant to say, I think, financial crash, but he said pandemic, but he said during the pandemic when he was vice president, Barack Obama sent him to Detroit. And you're just like, dude, what? Why did he send you to Detroit?

Why would they send you to Detroit to deal with COVID? Now, I saw someone saying that perhaps it was the H1N1 pandemic which did happen during the Biden administration or during the Obama administration when he was vice president. I don't think, I think he was talking about the- He would have probably said a previous pandemic. Yeah, the point is just that he does it so much.

Remember back in 2009? He's out of his fucking mind. If it was occasional, people would let this stuff go Yeah, but anyway just to that look I Also thought because some of these guys by the way had on your show like I like them I'm not even like, you know, like Coleman Hughes I don't know him personally, but I like him and he's right He seems really smart and I haven't read his book, but I bet I would love it

I think you two together would be a fascinating conversation just about the Israel-Palestine conflict. Yeah, well, I would love to have a conflict, because I think he's a good faith guy, and I think he's very smart. But he also kind of, you know, there were two things that kind of rubbed me the wrong way when he was on the show.

Number one was that he started by kind of getting into this argument about, which I see a lot of people are supporting this conflict doing the argument about like, okay Well, here are the number of total civilians dead and here are the number of Hamas militants dead and let's look at that ratio And then is that ratio that far off from what you find in a typical war and There's a few problems with this number one. The numbers are totally unreliable. And so you're having this conversation Yes on both sides. I mean both sides are Totally incentivized to exaggerate the numbers and also in the fog of war. It's very hard to keep up with these numbers We never really know the numbers of dead in war until like years later when the excess

Mortality is calculated and then you get a better idea of what was really going on there. The Israeli government talking about the number of Hamas militants they've killed seems to be them just pulling numbers out of their ass. Like they drop these bombs, they don't know how many, who got who and who wasn't part of. Are they going in there and checking dog tags? Yeah, they're not, you know what I mean?

And, but anyway, but even that, even if the numbers were right, it's like, look dude, if you look at the population density and you just look at the number of bombs that Israel has dropped, and you just see a lot of the footage that we've seen, and you just listen to stories that doctors are telling. I literally just saw an interview a couple weeks ago

with a doctor who just got back from Gaza, and he was talking about how they have a major anesthesia shortage over there. So just think about the implications of that, like what that means. It means they're operating on kids without anesthesia. You know what I mean? It's just, so the point is that if you're talking about,

okay, well this many Hamas people are dying compared to this many innocent babies are dying, that's not the question. Okay, like when you're inflicting this level of human suffering on people, the question for any decent civilized person is, is this absolutely necessary? Is this the only way to do it?

Is there any other option besides doing this? And as soon as you frame the question that way, you realize that, oh yeah, there actually is. And that it's not true that Israel, there will just be October 7th after October 7th If Israel stops doing this the fact is that of course Netanyahu's never allowed a real investigation into October 7th to happen But everybody pretty much concludes that Israel dropped the ball in a massive way in a massive way that their security was just in shambles And all they really needed to do was not rely so much on these, you know, machine gun robots

and have actual soldiers at the border. They could easily just stop this right now. Well, wasn't there an issue of protest where the soldiers were allocated towards... Yes. They... Yes. Basically, they had... So, as a... I think as a result of, um, the protest against Netanyahu, he had start... he had started to ally I think as a result of the protests against Netanyahu,

he had started to ally with some even further right-wing groups than he normally would have, and to appease them, he was pulling soldiers off of the Gaza border and putting them over toward the West Bank, which is what the religious Jews on the right really care about. And yes, they basically got caught with their pants down. But I'm just saying, they could just stop doing doing this it's not they all die or they keep doing

this they could stop and Israel can still protect itself in fact I'd argue their security would be enhanced if they stopped doing this. But the other thing which you brought up to Coleman Hughes was that you mentioned to him, which you said, what about the, didn't Israel like prop up Hamas? Wasn't that part of their strategy for a while? And he, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And maybe he just doesn't know about that detail of this as much because I, if not, he was kind of being dishonest,

but he, but maybe he just wasn't familiar with all of this as much because I if not he was kind of being dishonest but he but maybe he just wasn't familiar with all of this stuff but he kind of went you said that and then he kind of dismissed it by saying well there's um there's a quote that's attributed to Netanyahu but it wasn't on videotape so like we don't be essentially being like we don't really know if Netanyahu said this or not and then just kind of moved on to the conversation away from that. But I find this, I've found this in all of my debates that I've done on this, and I've done like eight debates

on this since the war broke out. Everybody on the pro-Israeli side does not wanna grapple with that point because it really is like a, it's a narrative shattering point once you acknowledge it. But so. Right, but if it isn't on videotape, he has a point as well.

Well here, well let me, okay, so here's the deal, right? So the quote that he's referring to was a quote by Benjamin Netanyahu. It was something along the lines of, anybody who wants to thwart the Palestinians having their own state needs to support propping up Hamas, bolstering Hamas, transferring money to them, to maintain, right, so there was a quote like this.

So Hamas maintains power. Right, so Hamas maintains power so that they never, we never have to give them a state because we can look to the international community, we can look to liberal Jews in Israel and say, look, we have no partner for peace, they're a crazy terrorist group, so we never have to make a deal.

We don't have to fulfill our promise that we would give the- And how was this attributed to him? So basically, this quote particularly, okay, this was at a closed door meeting with the Likud party. So this is Benjamin Netanyahu's political party, his far-right party that's in power right now in Israel. So it's true that this was a closed-door meeting

and that it's not on tape. So what happened is, as far as I could tell, the first person who reported this, I believe, was a lady who's a reporter for the Jerusalem Post. And then it's been run in a bunch of other newspapers since then. So what basically what happened is an eyewitness who was there at the meeting, so another Likud party member in Benjamin Netanyahu's political party, came and told her that he said this. And then she went and checked with somebody else who was there.

And he also confirmed that like, yes yes, Benjamin Anya said this. And then a third person, who was also at the meeting, came out and wrote about it in his book, or wrote about it in another newspaper article or something like that. So you had three eyewitnesses from within his own political party who confirmed that he said this.

Now, take that for what it's worth. I think that's reasonably strong, that three eyewitnesses all in his political party said long as they were trying to get rid of him But because you can get more than three people to say that Donald Trump was in collusion sure sure So even even say if you don't trust them Coleman acted as if that's what the entire case is built off of which is just not true at all It's not just this one Benjamin Netanyahu quote It's dozens and dozens of quotes from Israeli leaders

all throughout the political spectrum. There's been reporting on this done by almost every major Israeli newspaper. Haaretz, Times of Israel. The Times of Israel on October 8th had a piece by Tal Schneider, which was how Ben Laden, Ben, excuse me,

how Netanyahu's support for Hamas just blew up in his face. It was the next day. And because even critics like Ehud Barak, who was the former prime minister, he's a labor party, he's a critic of Benjamin Netanyahu. So he was a critic of this plan to prop up Hamas. But it's totally uncontroversial that this was their plan.

The New York Times just ran a piece, I think it was late last year, it might have been early this year, where they talked about how two weeks before October 7th, Benjamin Netanyahu sent the head of the Mossad to Qatar because funds going into Hamas had slowed down. And he sent them in there to make sure the funds continued It's the case for this is overwhelming. It's not like relying on one

Yeah, here you go Yeah for years the Qatari government had been saying that right that I said Qatari I think is yeah The Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month to Gaza Strip, money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them, according to Times, Israeli intelligence agents traveled to Gaza with the Qatari official carrying suitcases filled with cash. Suitcases, like a mafia movie, to disperse money.

Retired Israeli general Shlomo Brahm described the logic of Netanyahu's position. One effective way to present a two-state solution is to divide- Prevent. Prevent. Prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

If the extremist Hamas ruled Gaza, then the Palestinian Authority, a compromise, comprador, comprador government, is that how you say it? Comrador, I don't even know what that is. Comrador government with a tenuous hold on the West Bank would be further weakened. This, according to Brom, would allow Netanyahu to say, I have no partner.

And so that's, okay, so that's essentially the point there, right, that he can say I have no partner for peace which is the Israeli line that they like to you so basically Okay in 1979 the Egyptians and the Israelis met at Camp David and that's when they worked at their peace now Their peace also just involved basically that the US would pay them both off They're the we'd give them both three billion dollars a year in perpetuity if they stopped going to war with each other basically. And part of that was that Israel promised that they would eventually give the Palestinians a state.

Like it was recognized by DC at the time, this Jimmy Carter, that like you gotta give them a state because otherwise this fighting's gonna continue on and on and on forever. So they promised that. Eventually they would give it to them. This is the Yasser Arafat days. This is before Yasser Arafat was like the guy.

But he was alive. But then in the 80s, Yasser Arafat basically rejected terrorism. He had been involved in terrorism before that. He rejected terrorism and he recognized Israel, I think it was in 1988, he recognized Israel's right to exist under 1967 borders. So basically, Israel has the right to exist,

but we have the right to Gaza and the West Bank. The ultimate of compromises from the Palestinian perspective because a lot of their more hardcore guys are like, no, all of this was ours. We shouldn't have lost any of it. And now, even the original US partition plan, which was rejected by the Arabs for, you know, fairly good reasons, they rejected it

because it gave 55% to the Jews, and only, or 56% to the Jews, and only 44% to the Palestinians. And they were like, but we're like 90% of the population here, like, or 90% of the landowners here, whatever. And it's like, this doesn't, this isn't fair. But now at this point, they're talking about 78% versus 22%.

So they're accepting 22%. And so that's Yasser Arafat in the late eighties. And then this is what set the stage for the Oslo accords in the early 90s. And this is like famously when Bill Clinton has Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat over and they shake hands and they sign these deals. And the promise again from Israel was that

we're starting the peace process to eventually give the Palestinians their state. This is the process. And there were steps along this process, okay? Now, in 1996, Benjamin Netanyahu becomes president Their state this is the process and there were steps along this process. Okay now in 1996 Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime minister now the same year in 1996 there was there's this letter you can Find this on the internet

It's called a clean break a new strategy for securing the realm and it was written by Richard Pearl and David Worms are and a couple other the realm and it was written by Richard Pearl and David Wormser and a couple other people of course Richard Pearl and David Wormser both went on to be very influential neoconservatives in the George W Bush administration so they write this letter not to President Bill Clinton and not to Bob Dole who was running for president on the Republican ticket that that year they write this letter to Benjamin Netanyahu, the new prime minister of Israel. And basically, if you read it, what they say is that they're like, look, look, you guys

are all caught up in this peace process thing where you're talking about giving the Palestinians land. We need a clean break from that strategy. And we're going to have a whole new strategy. And what it's going to involve is you making agreements with the broader Arab world so that you don't have to make this agreement with the Palestinians. You see, the old way of thinking was always that Israel will never be able to make peace with the broader Muslim world because they're furious about what you're doing to the Palestinians.

But the clean break strategy was like, no, no, no, you're going to embark on what ultimately became the Netanyahu doctrine that will make it deals with the rest of the Arab world. So we don't have to give up this land. And you know what they recommended? These two neo conservatives in 1996, and I bet you'll never guess this Joe regime change in Iraq for the security of Israel. That was in 1996. And these people got in George W. Bush's government and after 9-11 those same people decided that they believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that he was involved in 9-11. Yeah. So there it is. Israel can shape its strategic

environment in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right as a means of foiling Syria's regional ambitions." And here's where it gets crazy. How much of a, what a great job the Massad did in compromising people, by the way. How much of an effect did that have in everything? You can go full Eddie Bravo and think everything that's happening is because of Epstein's Island. And I used to dismiss that a lot more easily than I do now. Maybe not everything. A lot, some things.

But certainly some stuff. Well, look, you will see this. You will see this. And I'm not saying that that Epstein is the sole reason for this type of stuff. There's several different reasons. But you see this all over the political sphere, and especially amongst like conservative commentators,

where as soon as Israel's mentioned Whatever their principles were that they were just rolling with are like gone Yeah, like it's a totally different thing and I get that I get there's there's a reason for that too I of course like what Jewish people have been through in the 20th century in the 19th and 18th century like that that plays a part in that too. But there's no question that, like it's not just, it's not just Epstein, it's also,

and I highly recommend people read, John Mearsheimer has a great book called The Israeli Lobby. There's also this lobby, APEC, which is a very, very powerful lobby. The truth is that every U S president since with perhaps the exception of Trump, I'm actually not sure about that, but every U S president since Jimmy Carter, I know for sure, excluding Trump, every one of them wanted a two state solution. Every single one of them, none of them were able to get it done.

Even though we bankroll Israel. You'd think it'd be fairly easy for us to like put pressure on the country that's relying on us. Like, okay, we'll keep supporting you, but you got to do this. Nope. Even when they go over and say, we want to do this, they're not able to do that. And part of that is because of the lobby. Part of that is because there's like tens of millions of evangelical Christians in this country who believe that the Jews have to control Israel, like in some religious view that Jesus can't come back unless the Jews control him or something like that. I mean, exactly understand it.

They go there on tour. They have tours they go there. Well, and they also, and the Israeli government's well aware of that and they're well aware of how much they benefit from that, so they do everything they can to facilitate that belief. White dudes with golf shirts. That's right. They're a big force. They're a really big block in this country. There's not like a few dozen of them. They're willing to throw some real money at bringing Jesus back.

Yes, that's a very big deal to them. But look, there's all of these US presidents, they've wanted an outcome that they're unable to get. And you can look, there's this one video of Benjamin Netanyahu where he doesn't know he's being recorded. Um, and he's speaking openly about this and it's pretty, so he, he openly starts bragging about how he basically blew up the peace process and how he like, he basically-

Is there a recording of this? Oh yeah, I mean it's in Hebrew, but it's translated and it's legit, it's been translated by like a whole bunch of different people. And he's bragging about how he put all of these poison pills into the peace agreement. Like he was like, oh yeah, sure, we'll grant, I agreed to grant them a state,

but only after it was determined that we could, like, Israel could control, like, military, like, important military areas. And then he was like, I also snuck it in that only Israel gets to define what the military important areas are. And I decided that a third of the West Bank is that. And like, he's bragging about, and he's bragging about how he tricked Bill Clinton and how easy it is to move the Americans. It's wild. Like there's a lot of power plays at work here.

And the only other thing I'll say about this, and it's not just like the neoconservative, the clean break, the strategy that they wrote for Netanyahu. It's that, so in 2002, Benjamin Netanyahu comes and testifies before Congress as a regional expert. And he testifies that like, oh yeah, if you guys overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region.

Let me tell you, I know something, because I know this region better than anyone else. And at one point, Dennis Kucinich actually grilled him and got him on record, and he goes, is there anybody else that you're advocating that we preemptively attack? And Netanyahu goes yeah, Iran Attack them too. So I'm not like I don't hate Israel like I think Israel is a cool country

I think what they do to the Palestinians is fucked up and it's inexcusable and they should stop But I think Israel is a cool country There's a lot of great things about them But like Netanyahu this guy who's the longest- serving prime minister in Israeli history, has been trying to get America into wars that are in his interest, that are very clearly not in ours. And the fact that we have to like unconditionally support Israel, even when our our own democratically elected president doesn't like the policies that they're enacting, and yet they still get all of this support. Even now, as you know, Joe Biden doesn't like the policies that they're enacting and yet they still get all of this support even now as you know

Joe Biden doesn't know what he's saying because he's got dementia But there's people in his ear who are telling him to like say don't invade Rafa And he's like don't invade Rafa and then Benjamin Netanyahu's like okay We're gonna invade Rafa, and it's just like okay Well fine fine if we have no influence over what you're gonna Do and you'll just wag the middle finger at us and brag about how you tricked Bill Clinton and defy what our presidents want you to do. Like, okay, fine.

But then you don't get our money and our weapons. Right? Like, isn't that reasonable? It is reasonable, but it's also, the left is very confused on this one. This is a baffling one for the left. Yeah, they sure are. Support of Israel has always been

a position of people on the left, right? Support of Jewish people. And to not want that is kind of anti-Semitic. Well look, on the hard left, there's always been a bunch of people who are sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, right? For sure, yes. Well the people that have seen Abbie Martin's take on it. Yeah, but Abbie Martin also follows in a tradition

of left-wing thought, like Noam Chomsky and people like this who have always been very critical of the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinians. But this is where it gets weird. It's like the support of Israel when Israel was attacked. So that's when everything gets crazy. It's not support of Israel before October gets crazy. It's not supportive Israel before October 7th. It's post October 7th. So now you have hardcore lefties who are now they're

like the majority of young people now. It's a big thing in this country and universities. It's crazy. I mean, they're going nuts. They're attacking students, they're attacking teachers, people can't go to work, they're being told if they support Israel they can't be on campus. It's just the whole thing is, it's very bad for the left in that regard because it's like Jewish people traditionally vote left. Oh yeah, well yeah, I mean the overwhelming majority,

I think 85% of Jews are Democrats or something like that and You know, obviously there's not full so like even today there was a news report of huge government protests in Israel There's there they're in the streets and so it's not like this is a policy that's supported by the entire population Well, there's I mean there was basically, I think what really changed things, during the 90s, there's no question, there was tremendous support for making a deal for a two-state solution, particularly amongst like liberal Israelis.

And they're basically, so Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated by a right-wing Israeli who was furious that he was a traitor for making a deal with the Palestinians. And that took him out. And then when Netanyahu came in, and then ultimately, I guess it was Sharon, who was in the year 2000,

and there was another meeting at Camp David where what people will say, which is just not true, And there was another meeting at Camp David where, you know, what people will say, which is just not true, but what a lot of the people, the pro-Israeli side will say is that they offered them everything. They offered the Palestinians everything they wanted, and they just turned it down. And this is their, it's all slogans. It's like, they never miss an opportunity

to miss an opportunity. But if you actually look into the details of all of it, even Shlomo Ben-Ami, who was the acting foreign minister at the time involved in these negotiations, he even said in his book, and he said it in the Democracy Now interview, that he would have turned down the deal too if he was Arafat because the deal was just so, it was so removed from actually giving him his own state that it was like, this is just, it was an insulting offer essentially. But when those negotiations broke down,

and then it was after Sharon had this visit to the Temple Mount, which really inflamed tensions, when the negotiations broke down, then the second Intifada started, and there was a big wave of terrorist attacks. And that, you know, in the same cycle we were talking about at the beginning, that did a lot to turn a lot of liberal Israelis

off of the idea that, like, well, there's no negotiating a piece. But it is worth noting that whenever there were negotiations going on, the support for terrorism, the support for Hamas and groups like that always plummeted. And then whenever the negotiations broke down, the support for those terrorist and groups like that always plummeted. And then whenever the negotiations broke down, the support for those terrorist groups picked back up again. Because the big problem here is that you just...

When you... essentially, when you take away the dangling carrot in front of an oppressed people, like, you let them know that there's no hope. That you're going to live in subjugation for eternity. That's a very dangerous situation. That's when people will turn to really, really dark means. And that's, you know, essentially, look, Netanyahu's, like what became the Netanyahu Doctrine,

and a lot of this culminated in the Abraham Accords, which a lot of Trump supporters will brag about. They'll be like, look at all these peace deals that Donald Trump worked out in the Abraham Accords, which a lot of Trump supporters will brag about. They'll be like, look at all these peace deals that Donald Trump worked out in the Middle East, except the problem is that there was no war between any of the countries that he worked out these deals. It was just kind of like normalizing relations between Israel and these other Arab countries around them.

But what was the reason why relations weren't normalized? It was because they were pissed off about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. So basically Jared Kushner's brilliant idea, along with Netanyahu's, was that, oh, well, if we just bribe all of these countries with U.S. taxpayer dollars or weapons, we can get them to look the other way and say, screw the Palestinians. We'll make a deal with the U.S. and with Israel. So they did that. And Netanyahu was bragging about this and Netanyahu just a couple weeks before

September 11th right around the time that he sent the head of Mossad into Qatar to make sure the money kept going to Hamas He went to the UN with a map of Greater Israel and it was all Israel Gaza the West Bank and and what is Israel proper all Israel in his map Like they were just bragging to them like haha you guys lost you get nothing that's it nothing this map of greater Israel this is something that he's proposing for the future this is this is in you know as much as people will point to the Hamas founding charter and it says from the river to the sea or whatever and that's true at least their original one but that's in the Lacoud founding documents also in different words but it's basically from

basically from the river to the sea will be all Israel which is what it has been you know from since 1967 again by the way I'm not showing up with a map what why would he have a that sounds like a plot in a movie sure does this is like this is all of ours Well, I do know deals. Yeah. Well, right something like that. It does it sounds like a bad guy in a movie Well, look, I also don't don't want to um, cuz there are people who also jump to like other conspiracy theories that I don't think are right that well, they'll say kind of like like, well, because, okay, so because Netanyahu was supporting Hamas and because he was using them

kind of as, you know what I mean, like oh good, we'll keep these terrorists over here so that they're not linked up with the people in the West Bank over here, and then I have no, I get a certificate, I forget the exact phrase, but it was, I have a, I think he said at one point, I have a no partner for

peace certificate signed by the president in both houses of Congress because look I don't have to ever do a two-state deal but Then people will jump to the next level which is that like oh He he wanted October 7th. There was a stand-down order. This is why it took Israel so long Yeah, it's a black flag. That, or a false flag. Yeah, that I don't think is right. Or at least I haven't seen convincing evidence that it is. From everything I've read about it, it actually seems a lot more like,

if you remember, I know we talked about this, I think on the podcast years ago when I was on, but if you remember when, okay, so in 2012, when Obama decided that they were going to start arming all of the anti-Assad rebels, and there's actually a hot mic of John Kerry talking about this and cause they were doing it through 2013, 2014. And he goes, he goes, yeah, look, we saw the rise of ISIS coming and we, we knew they, the weapons were good at getting into their hands, but we thought, okay, that

might put pressure on Assad to have to step down. So like we could use this group in order to get the regime change that we wanted. But then they turned around and invaded Iraq. And like that wasn't part of the plan. You know what I mean? Like they weren't supposed to do that. Then we had to reinvade Iraq to get rid of ISIS. Who, you know what I mean? And so, if you remember, during that time,

there was one point when Obama called ISIS JV. It was like kind of like insulting them. Like listen, these guys, and you could kind of see where Obama was coming from. He's like, I don't know, I'm the commander in chief of the United States of America's military. I'm worried about ISIS. These guys are nothing compared to what, the power that we have.

And there's a lot of people at the highest level of the Israeli government who spoke exactly the same way about Hamas. That's the Benjamin Netanyahu quote that he says, we can control the height of the flame. When he's talking about, you know, propping up Hamas. He goes, don't worry, we can control what they're able to do and what they're not able to do.

These guys are nothing compared to our strength. But there was tremendous hubris in that. Let's take a what if. Sure. What if they decided on a two state solution as it currently stands, and they just let the people run it however they want, and Hamas takes over the whole Palestine.

If Palestine becomes a country controlled by Hamas. And then they start doing trading with other countries. And then they start acquiring weapons, like real sophisticated weapons like Israel has, where the Iron Dome is no longer successful. Right, so this is kind of the counterfactual that a lot of Israelis will rely on to say, well, look, we can't give them their own state

because what if when they get their own state, they decide to do this with it. So, all right, there's an old Thomas Jefferson quote about slavery, and I'll butcher this, as I always do, but I like bringing it up, but it's something along the lines of, he goes, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither afford to hold onto it,

nor to safely let it go. And essentially what he was saying was like, this was a major concern of people, even people who were kind of sympathetic to the abolitionist cause, who were like, yeah, look, but we've like enslaved these people for so long, so what are we gonna do? Free them and make them citizens

who are allowed to get guns? Like, they're gonna be so furious at us, they're gonna come kill all of us. And you can kind of see. Especially when there's way more of them. Well, especially you have a plantation and how many slaves that you have. Right, right, right, in certain areas you might have had.

And most people all get together and organize and get guns. Yeah, so you could see where that could have been a realistic concern. You can see why they have a really good point too. Right, but at the same time. The dude who whipped you lives in that big white house and now you've got a shotgun Yeah, so there's there's no question. There's a concern about that However, I also think looking back at it most people in modern times would say yeah, but you can't enslave people

Yeah, we fucked up. Yes deserve that sorry first place and look I I also do think that You better get the fuck out of dodge like the weight Well, the way Darrell Cooper says it which I actually think is a reasonable way to put it is he goes like I heard someone ask him that question once and he goes, okay Well, if that happens, then we're having a different conversation, you know, but that's not the conversation right now The conversation right now is about Israel dominating these people in perpetuity But I also do think that I don't listen. I think that groups like Hamas get their strength from the fact that

there are so many people who want to resist this total domination by the Israelis. You know, it was a general McChrystal is not not a libertarian dove like me, not like some comic idiot like me, who's just like I'm against war. General McChrystal is not not a libertarian dove like me not like some comic idiot like me who's just like I'm against war general McChrystal who was running the war in Afghanistan before He got caught saying bad things about Obama and got kicked out of there Yeah, the Rolling Stone story with Michael Hastings the late great Michael Hastings Might have yeah, I don't know about that. But General McChrystal, this tough, hard-nosed general,

he was the one who coined the term insurgent math. And he said, what's 10 minus two? A lot of you might think it's eight, but the answer's 20. When we're talking about insurgents, 10 minus two equals 20, because you kill two insurgents, and each one of them had brothers and uncles and nephews and friends. And now they all join up the resistance movement because they're all so

radicalized by the fact that you just killed someone they loved. And this has been the nature of this, this dynamic from the beginning of it. And so yeah, it's like just saying that to the concern that if Israel was to grant the Palestinians their freedom, that what if then this led to like some swelling in Hamas, I think the truth is that doing what you're doing now is much more likely to increase Hamas

or Hamas-like organizations. Because there's, you know, you- So they're basically, it's like credit card debt. It's like basically they keep using their credit card, they're never gonna be able to pay off the debt. It just keeps rising and rising and rising and your monthly payments keep getting higher and higher and you're fucked.

Yeah, but again, like I will say that the one nice example, or the one silver lining to all of this is that there are so many examples throughout the world where things were so often, I mean you just never could have imagined that like Germany could live right there in Europe next to all these countries. They just went to two world wars with each other.

You know what I mean? But they do. They traveled by train to visit each other. Yeah, that's right. And everyone's friends. Dude, I went last year and did like stand up in a, I went to London and then you get on like a 45 minute flight and you go over to Ireland and you're just like you guys are right next to each other everyone's just coming out to the shows and we're having

fun and it's just cool and like so there is something beautiful about that where you it's it in the moment it seems like this could never be solved but like that's not necessarily true the truth is that most human beings are incentivized by wanting to live their life and wanting to take care of their family and wanting to, you know what I mean? Like, and if given an option to do that rather than losing their sons in war, a lot of times they'll choose that. But in order for that to happen, the look, Israel has all of the power and the Palestinian people have virtually not. The only thing they have the power to do is to, you know, I guess,

support these acts of terrorism, which are essentially like celebrating losing. It's so sick and dark that you're like, aha, we'll kill a few of your people and then get way more of our people killed. Then it's just like, that's the only thing they have. Aside from that, every peaceful effort that they make ends up being violently suppressed. And Israel has all of the power.

And in order to get to that step, it's on, the ones with the power have to make some concessions. And the only way to get there is for Israel to like at least get back on some path toward like, hey, we are gonna give you like your sovereignty at some point. There was some recent discussion of rebuilding Gaza

where they were talking about what they could do for that area once they rebuild it. What's the plan on that? Well, there's been a lot of different things floated out. And of course, Israel is always kind of talking out of both sides of their mouth. So like on one moment, they'll be like, we just want Hamas. We just have to get Hamas out of there.

And then they'll be like, well, we really do think that every country should take in a fair share of the Gazan people. like they're floating out the idea of just Cleansing the entire area. I know that the the UN I think recently said that it would take 80 years to rebuild Gaza, I don't know if that I don't trust UN numbers exactly rebuilding Gaza two decades They said 50 billion over two decades Well someone just got paid. What's up? Well, right, exactly. So what's the real...

That's also a thing, right? Rebuilding is very profitable. Well, that's for sure. Yeah. Oh, there's money to be made in the destruction, there's money to be made in the rebuild, and people will make that money. But I think that the truth is that Israel has not at all laid out what the end game of this is,

other than this assertion that we must get rid of Hamas entirely, even though U.S. and Israeli intelligence have both said that that's impossible. It's not an achievable task. Hamas is popping back up in the areas that they've already leveled. And they could go into Ra'afah.

I'm sure they can kill some Hamas militants in there But how many or Hamas light groups are coming back? How many do you think they've killed so far no idea and I don't think they know and what what are the numbers? I think they exist they've They've claimed That they've I saw like at one point they said they've killed 8,000. Then they said 10,000, then 14,000. I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea what the real number is and I don't,

I don't think the Israeli government knows. And I don't think, uh, I, I think probably the Gazan, uh, health ministry doesn't know either. It's like very difficult work to wall. This is all going on, identify bodies and figure out how many of them are dead and how many of them were joined up with Hamas or weren't, you know, Hamas is also not like, it's not a government. It's not like, as if there's like, um, you know, it's not like, okay, if you were like, say tracking, like in America, there was a big, you know, like explosion, a bunch of people died.

And you could look at like DNA records and who was enlisted in the military and you could just like match them up against each other. It's not scientific like that or at least it's much more primitive than that. So I don't, I really wouldn't venture to guess. And I also don't know, you know, like how accurate the the numbers when they say 35,000 people have died, it seems within the realm of possibility. There's a lot of people missing, right? And that's part of the province. Yeah, well, they said the most recent figures that they put out, again,

this is the Gaza health ministry, which is overseen by Hamas. So take that with a grain of salt or whatever. But they said there's like, I think, 10,000 who they weren't able to identify. Can you imagine the horror of just walking down those streets? they said there's like, I think 10,000 who they weren't able to identify. The horror of just walking down those streets. So if there are 10,000, let me, how many of them can you smell? You know, I mean, you just look around, you just see wreckage and you smell rotting bodies. Oh dude. And just the worst things in the world insane.

It must be insane to live lived there before October 6th when it was already prison, to see it now. And it's continuing, right? It's going on right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, and then imagine, like, imagine, you know, and there's constantly, like, the defenders of this military campaign will say, oh, they drop will say oh they drop

They drop warning bombs and they drop leaflets and they tell you no problem Just leave but you're talking about people who are like first of all in They live at least the a large percentage of them live in a level of poverty that none of us have ever Experienced just telling people just leave and head out to the you know And it's what people almost have like in their mind that like, what is there like some sophisticated refugee camp waiting for them with tents and water and food? Like, no, they're just telling them like, go, go out into the desert, go out into this, this other place. You have nothing.

It's not that easy. Like you might have little children with you or old people with you. It's not that easy to just leave. And then when they leave and they go into Rafa, which was supposed to be safe, they go, oh yeah, now we're, now we're invading Rafa. So leave again. Where do you go exactly? Who knows? And again, like, look, dude, it's just, again, I just think that whenever you're talking about these things, when you're,

when you're talking about like inflicting this level of human suffering on a group of people, like whoever's defending that man, the onus is on you to demonstrate that there's absolutely no other way to do it. And the other reason why I bring up this point all the time about, um, Israel propping up Hamas as this strategy is that doesn't that at least change the narrative? Cause if you just go, which a lot of people are, they'll just be like, well, look look look what happened on October 7th look how horrible that is nobody could stand for anybody doing that and therefore Hamas has to go and so whatever happens in that process hey that's on Hamas and

like that I guess on some superficial level I can understand that but like yeah but once you know that they were propping up Hamas Specifically so that they wouldn't have to give the innocent Palestinians their own state and now they get to use that group that they propped Up as the excuse why they're allowed to just slaughter these people. That's just like that's a whole different level of It's just no that's fucked up man. That's just not and all these terms get conflated They'll be like doesn't Israel have the right to defend itself? And you're like, yeah, but see, now you're manipulating this idea of self-defense, which is a natural right.

You could argue the most natural human right is the right to defend, you know, the right to life, and then the right to defend your life. But the right to defense is like, so imagine me and you were hanging out at your house and someone like broke into your house and kills me and then points the gun at you and you grab your gun and you kill that guy. You'd be like, well, yeah, you had the right to defend yourself. You know what I mean? Like you, he just,

he's on your property. He broke into your property. He just killed your friend. He's got trying to kill you. And you're like, no, you have the right to defend yourself, no question. But, or you could even argue, right, say like in the human shield example, he's holding a little baby as he's shooting at me, and then shoots at you, and you shoot and you hit the baby and him.

You could say, hey, that's horrible, but that was on him. But now you're talking about like a guy breaks into your house, shoots and kills me, runs and leaves, retreats back to his house where you know his wife and his five kids are. And so you blow up the house and you're like, well, look, I have a right to defend myself. And you're like, ah, okay. But this is a slightly different concept than just like the right of self-defense as we all understand it. This is more like

the right to revenge, the right to justice, which, okay, I'm not, I believe in justice and I think all of the people involved in October 7th should face justice for what they did. It's a horrific terrorist attack. But there's a very different question between like defending the country of Israel and enacting justice against those people if it means like babies get crushed to death and rubble and parents get killed in front of their children and all of the, you know, horror that's been going on.

What do you think Hamas thought Israel was gonna do? This. I think this was the plan. So you think they wanted Israel to do this? Yeah, I think Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian life and they like, I think are, I think the goal, Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian life. And they like, I think are, I think the goal, the goal in asymmetric warfare is almost always to provoke an overreaction out of your opponent, right?

So like Osama Bin Laden never thought he could destroy America by taking down the Twin Towers, but he thought he could lure us into a war in Afghanistan that could bankrupt our country, just like he was trained by the CIA to do with the Soviet Union, right? Like that was kind of the plan. And likewise, I think that Hamas knew

that Israel would overreact in this way, and look, I mean, look what's happening. Totally turn global opinion against them and put themselves in more jeopardy than they've ever been in. There's almost nothing that anyone else could have done to Israel that would have put that country in more jeopardy than what they've just done to Gaza. This is like never going away for them. And I don't think, I don't think a lot of Israelis or pro-Israeli Americans

have really grappled with this fact. You could get into the semantics of arguing whether this is a genocide or not a genocide, which I never get into, by the way. I just don't care about whether you call it that term or call it a different term. Whatever it is is real. But the fact that the International Court of Justice

ruled that this is a plausible genocide is so wild that they ruled that the Jewish state is committing a genocide. Like that's just such a, a different way of looking at things than all of us grew up with like, no, the Jews were the victims of genocide, not the perpetrators of it. And I, I am Jewish and I do resent that they've kind of like put that, you know what I mean, like into the public mind and to some degree,

because there's a case to be made for it. But Israel is really playing with fire here. And they're, I think they're in a more precarious position than they've ever been in my lifetime, for sure. Jesus Christ. What do you think happened to that Iranian dude? You know, I think that's just a crash in the fog. I think so.

That is kind of my, yeah. Like I, you know, of course you always, in some weird perverse way, want the more exciting story. Don't fly in the fucking fog in a helicopter How about that? Well, I asked a few of my real smart friends like I was calling them a bad I called Scott Horton earlier today And I was like, what do you think about this that he was like? It does seem like bad weather and what he was like because they couldn't even like recover it

You know what? I mean cuz the weather was so bad and also it's not taking out the the Iranian president doesn't really do anything anyway. Ayatollah is who has control. Yeah, they'll put another president in and it'll be the exact same thing. And I just don't think, my guess is that it was just bad weather, but I'm totally open to, there might be some evidence that comes out

that it was something else It's always more fun to think it's some secret squirrel shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I think this one might have just been bad weather though it turns out is really not safe to fly a helicopter in bad weather No, it's fucking terrifying. You can't see fly right into mountains Yeah, that's not good. No. It's not good. I don't know Do you fly on helicopters? I have yeah, they don't like they don't make me not good. No, it's not good. I don't know. Do you fly on helicopters, Joe? I have. Yeah?

They don't make me feel good. Yeah. People tell me they're fine. They know how to do it. They're safe. They know how to auto-rotate on the way down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever, bro.

That thing seems weird. I'm sure that's what they told the Iranian president. Well, I mean, do they have helicopters that can operate through the clouds just like an airplane does, right, where they know exactly where they are at any given time? I don't know. I have no knowledge on this subject.

But I just feel I've never been in a helicopter, and I don't want to. It doesn't seem like as sophisticated a method of flying. I just feel like helicopter-less life has been going pretty good for me And I'm just gonna keep riding down this path where you don't go on helicopters or has a license and he took me up Really yeah, yeah, Bill Burr. He's really good really good at flying helicopters. I

The handful of times I've been in a helicopters with him. We're flying around downtown, LA. You can just fly around That's what's weird. They don't tell you where you can go and not go I mean, I'm sure they do, but for the most part, once you say you're gonna go to a specific area, you can just kind of fly around. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird. So you have a helicopter because they're below the airplanes. I don't know why I was already scared

of the idea of flying in a helicopter, but flying in a helicopter that's being piloted by Bill Byrd is just the scariest thing in the world to me. Like you just get pissed off at something in the middle of it and he's like yelling and you're like, dude, focus man. No, he's very focused when he flies a helicopter. He's very, very serious about it. But he took me around these buildings

and you're just flying around buildings in downtown LA. I'm like, this is crazy. You just fly right by these skyscrapers. I mean, that does sound cool. It is cool. But I don't want to do it. It's kind of beautiful. Like you're just flying around. And it's kind of beautiful like you just flying around

And it's kind of leisurely because they don't go that fast right right leisurely flying around downtown I'm like this is crazy, and then you look at a lot of those buildings on downtown LA They all have like helicopter landing pads on the roof like this is bonkers Yeah, I mean I okay. I understand the appeal from him that does seem fun. Yeah, it's fun But then you know you don't want to end up like this Iranian guy. Yeah. There's Bill. There.

Fucking Bill Burr. Yeah. I'll fucking show you how to fly this helicopter with my fucking, oh, how dare you wear that paper boy hat when you made fun of me. Made fun of me famously, so had a little rascal sat on it. I like it.

This is like right after that he went and bought the hat. Yeah, it's a good look. Yeah. He's awesome. Him and Tim Dillon are the very best at ranting, like, by themselves on a podcast. They're the only podcast that I listen to where a guy just goes off 100% by himself. Bill, really by himself. Like, Tim Dillon has a producer that's like a built-in one-man audience.

Right, who he kind of plays off of him. Yeah, and he's great, but he's...even one person is enough for Tim Dillon. Like, Tim Dillon can rant with one person better than anybody on the planet. But he's very smart in the way he does it, like having his producer right there. So he's saying funny things for his producer. His producer's laughing. Right. And then, so he'll do that also in podcasts same kind Of thing you know whereas burr is just him by himself Yeah, what I know like we like someone will just ask him like the most kind of basic question

Yeah, and then like he's just reading their question And then it just launches him into this thing that like you know he wasn't even planning on talking about none of this. And then it just launches and it's beautiful. Yeah, both those guys are the best. Yeah, Dylan's the best though at just being hilarious about anything by himself. Dude, I mean, I met Tim pretty early. He was pretty new when I first met him.

And he was definitely like, I mean, he wasn't as, you know, he didn't have the chops that he has mean, he wasn't as, you know, like, he didn't have the chops that he has now. He wasn't as polished as he is now. But he was very green, he was brand new. But I remember just like hearing a few of his rants on podcasts, and you were like, yo, this guy is gonna be like a force of nature.

It's like, I almost like, it's almost like you see, it's like if you were watching like Michael Jordan playing high school or something like that, and then you just saw like one move, and you were like, oh, shit. Oh, we're doing that now? All right, all right, fine. Well, he came, it's such a unique perspective.

A gay right-wing guy who used to sell subprime mortgages and did a lot of drugs. I'm still not convinced he's gay. I'm convinced he used to sell subprime mortgages. That for sure happens. I'm convinced he did a lot of drugs. That I believe. Yeah.

That I believe. Gay thing. You know what's funny, because every now and then you'll see it. There's like a moment where you see the gay come out and you're like, oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. You hide it pretty well, Tim, but it's there.

Look at him there with the fucking glasses. Oh my god. And he puts those glasses on so he's like he's in his own little world. And you just say the most wild shit about everybody. Did you see the Nancy Pelosi debate with the dude from Mumford and Sons? No, I still haven't watched it.

I did. I know you asked me if I had seen it, and then my buddy Rob Bernstein, who co-hosts my podcast with me, part of The Problem, he was like, dude, you gotta watch it, but I just have not. I've been constantly traveling. Yeah, dude, he handed her.

Well, I can't believe Nancy Pelosi actually did an Oxford-style debate. That just seems ridiculous. Who told her that was a good idea? I don't know. I mean, I guess she thought Winston is just like this fucking musician. Isn't he a banjo player? What's going on here? Pelosi interrupted by anti-israeli Pelosi rebooted for to her face during Oxford debate after condemning Americans clouded by guns gays God what?

What does that mean? Clouded by guns, gays, God. What? What does that mean? Clouded by guns, gays, God. What does that mean? What does that mean? She's so crazy. Guns and gays and gods. Oh my God. Challenging policy's position in the debate about populism. Winston Marshall, a musician who was once part of Memphred and S now host the Marshall matters podcast for the spectator spoke in opposition To the Oxford Union motion that this house believes populism is a threat to democracy that that is a crazy Argument that populism is a threat to democracy well, like it's I swear to God whenever you whenever you hear people like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton or any of them use the term democracy just in your mind

Substitute what they mean by democracy is our rule over you like in a sense. That's what they mean It's like oh, yeah populism is a threat to you guys ruling us. Yes, and that's that's kind of true That's exactly she's saying there's a No, she's saying I will say there this, there's a really great debate, I believe it was the monk, it was between David Frum and, oh God, I'm blanking on his name, Trump's big advisor.

Oh man, I'm blanking on his name. I'm usually pretty good with names, guys. But where is the guy who like masterminded Trump's 2016 campaign? Yeah, Steve Bannon. So Steve Bannon and David Frum. David Frum was a speechwriter for George W. Bush. And Steve Bannon debated populism.

And the crowd was so hostile to Bannon. And he actually did a very good job in the debate. I highly recommend everyone listen to it if you're interested in this stuff, because he basically laid out how the whole Trumpist populist movement is a result of your failures. Like who are you, George W. Bush speechwriter, to look at us and say like, why is there this populism?

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because the elites mismanaged everything. And so then there was like a movement that rose up like, hey, these elites are screwing you over. It's populism is, it's not a sign that you have a healthy society. It's a symptom of a cause. You know, it's like, it's in the same way,

I know me and you have talked about this a bunch before, but in the same way as when all these people will be like, you know, we need to have trust in our institutions. And you're like, well, yeah, but we also need institutions that don't lie to us. And when they do lie to us, you can't turn around and say, hey, you have to trust these institutions. Like, no, the problem started with you not being trustworthy.

Yeah. Not with us not trusting you. I think people are starting to understand that better now. I really do. I do too. I think there's been a pretty significant shift towards people being very skeptical About bullshit now where it's just there's gonna be a ton of people and some of these people by the way are paid And this is what I've talked to people recently that are They either stream or they're YouTube personalities

or they're Instagram, social media personalities and they have a certain number of followers. And they offer them thousands of dollars to do political posts. Thousands of dollars to talk about specific political issues. Damn it, there's no money in my politics. But you know how crazy that is?

So what if you have a really big account? What if you have a big account like mine? We have like 19 million followers and someone says, hey, we would love to pay you to support blah, blah, blah. That is creepy, man. That's legal. That's creepy that you can pay people for their support for a political issue Because it's this weird gray area where it's social media engagement, and I'm sure there's also like there's probably like a few

Like steps between like it's not like a campaign is directly paying you It's like a super PAC or a group that was funded by that super PAC. And then you could be like, and then you could, with a straight face, say, I've never taken any money from the Biden campaign. And you're like, hmm. Yeah, but you did take money from a group who's basically Biden's campaign.

Right, like what the NIH did with Gain of Function research. We didn't fund it. Nothing to do with it. Oh, this subsidiary. Oh, yeah, this company that we fund. Yeah, it's right over there. He's going, yeah. Probably, but it had nothing to do with the pandemic.

Yeah, those guys are crazy. And then he insisted that you're racist. Yeah, right. Yeah. Wasn't that the best that that made you racist? It's crazy. That made you racist. They're so good at that.

They're so good at making you whatever. Whatever it is, racist, transphobic, sexist, xenophobic, nationalist. What they're amazing at, and I've kind like marveled at it like over the last few years Especially when I do this show like I mean there's other there's some other shows that I do that are like pretty big shows But there's just nothing like this show like the the response to it that you get especially for me because I come say like Controversial things on the show and like the the response that you get be accurate. I mean, it's bonkers, dude Okay, so the the probably the biggest one up until,

I don't know, but maybe the biggest one was that when we were talking about the war in Ukraine, so this was like a couple years ago I guess was the first time I came on and we were really talking about it, the beginning-ish of the war. And I basically made this whole case for how NATO expansion is basically what provoked this war and that that was Vladimir Putin's big gripe.

And I mean, I thought I totally backed it up with like, listen, this is what all of these experts themselves said, not Russian experts, I'm saying American experts, heads of NATO, all of this stuff. And I mean, the reaction I got from blue check journalists back when that meant you were a Corporate journalist Joe Scarborough was furious at me because this guy is saying that a NATO provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion because of course the New York Times and CNN and all their favorite term was unprovoked This is a completely unprovoked and I don't know by the way if you caught this and I don't say this just to run a

Victory lap, but kind of 50% for that reason, but just late last year the head of NATO Strasenberg Jen's Strasenberg or something like that Norwegian guy, but he just came out and said and he almost said it like so nonchalantly He said that Vladimir Putin before he invaded Asked NATO. He said if you just put in writing that you won't ever put Ukraine in NATO I won't invade but if you don't do that, I'm gonna invade right and then he was bragging he goes and we refused

we refused to agree to that and Then he was kind of going and look now NATO is gonna expand even more So see how stupid Vladimir Putin is. But like number one, he just totally admitted that all that thing that everyone was saying was such a controversial statement two years ago that this had anything to do with NATO expansion. It's like, well, the head of NATO just said that's what the whole thing was about and that he wouldn't have invaded if he had just agreed to not expand NATO more. And then number two, you're like, oh, so you're just bragging that you didn't do that. so what hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died now we

could have just made an agreement that Ukraine won't be in NATO and not done any of this that seems better but when you say it when I said it two years ago everyone like anyway my point is just that they really act like you're crazy yeah they act like you're an. They act like you're crazy. They act like you're an insane person. When you're saying something that you're like, no, this is very common sense and clearly true. I don't think they even understand the history of it, even the people that are commentators.

I think there's a lot of them that are jack of all trades. They're jack of all trades in regards to their understanding of the economy, international conflict, you know tech techies issues. You know what I sent you this Months ago, but this really was kind of eye-opening to me. So there's this guy Liam Crossgrove and he's a he works for Greyzone he's reporter over there and So he made he basically did like this guerrilla journalism type thing where he was going up and asking

congressman questions. And then he made like a video where he kind of spliced it together. And there was like there was some stuff of me on this podcast in the video and some stuff of my guy, Scott Horton, who by the way, is great over at anti war.com that his whole team over there is incredible. But so he made this video where he goes up to all these congressmen and congresswomen and he asks them what they think about Netanyahu's

propping up Hamas for all of these years. And to a man, to a woman, all of them just have this deer in headlights look and they're like, sorry, what reporter are you referring to? I'm sorry, I haven't seen that. I'd be interested to see that, but I haven't seen that. What, what are you talking, what? And you just, right away, none of them know.

None of them even have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. And you almost realize that, weirdly, it was even eye-opening to me, and I talk about this stuff all the time, but you just kind of realize where it's like. Oh like yeah, that's not their job Their job isn't to like read books about this stuff and read Newspaper articles and keep up with what's good their job is to

fundraise For their next election that they have and to whip votes for this thing that this lobbyist wanted I know if I get what this lobbyist wanted, he's gonna contribute to my campaign. And if I do, it's like they're in a different world. They're not in the world of like actually thinking about this conflict and knowing things and learning more about it.

It's just like being the president. They have to have a comprehensive understanding of everything. Everything, right. Everything. Which is impossible. Which is not possible. It's not possible. And the other thing is they're always talking

like they're in a position of expertise. One of my favorite interviews was when AOC was talking to that lady and she asked her to expand. That Israel-Palestine, yeah. Oh my God. She just collapsed into herself. It's literally like a fifth grader that didn't study. And then they ask you about the subject,

or you didn't read the book. And then, well, it's about Billy and his dog, and really good relationship, these dogs. But the crazy thing about that interview is that it's like, OK, so her first comment comes off with total authority. And then one little follow-up question. The question's like, well, what do you mean by that? And then like one little follow-up question. The question's like, well, what do you mean by that? And then you just see her get weaker and weaker.

And then like one more, but what do you mean by that? She's like, I don't know what I'm talking about, man. She literally goes, I'm really not the expert. She just gave up. But she kept going before she gave up. She tried. And you're supposed to know about that if you're going to talk about that. It's not that hard to educate yourself on it

I'll know a little bit at least I mean some I you know have an understanding of the history of the conflict It is a crazy convoluted one Yeah I also think that what people are starting to see, at least in the occupation of Palestine, is just an increasing crisis of humanitarian condition. And that, to me, is just where I tend to come from on this issue. You used the term the occupation of Palestine. What did you mean by that oh I think what I meant is like the settlements that are increasing no no that's not what the occupation means

do you think you can expand on that? Yeah, I mean, I think I'd also just, I am not the expert on geopolitics on this issue. That lady, by the way, knew exactly what she was doing. Oh, of course. She goes, oh, I'm gonna expose this chick. I'm gonna expose her. She's, and you know, it's great,

I kind of agree with AOC's starting statement, but then you're like, hey, you gotta have something here, man. You gotta know what you're talking about. Yeah, and also like, this is not, again, this is not the place for that. You have five minutes or whatever you got, whatever that interview is.

There's not a chance that you can lay out the history of this conflict and all the different accords and all the different, yeah. Yes, yes, of course. But there's also this weird thing in corporate media where there's almost like an unspoken, unwritten agreement that like, look, if you just have a few talking points, you can get through an interview and sound really confident

in yourself and sound like, hey, that guy knows what he's talking about, you know? And as long as, say like if I'm interviewing you, as long as I kind of agree that I'm just gonna let you say your talking points, then you can come out looking really good, but as soon as one, like, interviewer like this one decides, like, no, I'm gonna make an example out of you now

by calling you on your bullshit. And the beautiful thing about the way she did it, she just kept asking her to expand. Yeah, so what do you mean by that? Yeah, expand. She's not challenging her. She's literally just giving her the easiest of softballs. Yep, and there's nothing there Yeah, and that's and that's right. And of course AOC, you know

I don't almost feel bad like because she was such a like I think she was in her 20s Yeah this video like she's just they also kind of knew that like that Here's this woman who just is totally not up to the task. And she doesn't know anything. Did you see the Marjorie Taylor Greene, the outburst? These are the best of the best, ladies and gentlemen. These are our representatives. This is our Jerry Springer government. And what does AOC call her? Baby girl.

She's going, oh, baby girl. Like they went full, oh, no, you didn't. You're like, bitch, I will fuck you up. They were fucking, Marjorie Taylor's Insulting her she's insulting Marjorie Taylor's body. It was dude. It was wild You're like no we can't just when you think like, you know, this country's gotten so dumb. You're like, oh, are we actually here? Are we actually here? Do you remember we used to watch those videos of like? Parliament breaking out in other countries like Kazakhstan or some shit

They'd go and we'd be like that could never happen here. Listen to what they said So she gives her shit chaos on Capitol Hill over Find see if you can find the raw footage of it so we know so she starts talking shit Marjorie Taylor green says maybe you couldn't Read because your fake eyelashes and the other was like, oh like oh no you didn't strike that shit from the record This is shit, I said she has a blitz body the Marjorie Taylor She did it in the like the caddy passive aggressive way You know we're here Well you don't want to talking about I think your fake eyelashes are messing up.

No, I ain't nothing. Hold on, hold on. Order, Mr. Chairman. That's beneath even you. Would you please regain order of your committee? Order. Beneath even you. Keep going.

I do have a point of order. And I would like to move to take down Miss Green's words. That is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you attack the physical appearance of another person. Move her words down. Oh girl, baby girl. Oh really? Don't even play with me. Baby girl, I don't think about it.

We are going to move and we're going to take your words down. I second that motion. That's amazing. Don't even play. Okay. Miss Green agrees to strike her words. I believe she needs to apologize. Hold on, then after Mr. Perry is going to be recognized, then Ms. Green. I'm not apologizing. Well then, you're not striking your words.

I am not apologizing. I'm just curious, just to better understand your ruling, if someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde bad-built butch body that would not be engaging in personalities correct solid alliteration what now chairman bleach blonde bad-built butch body she makes much to strike it i see uh genuinely kind of impressed with the alliteration off the top of the head that was pretty good the bleach blonde built bad- built butch body Yeah, that's not bad. It's not bad. She thought about it for a while. She had a little she probably had that in her Time yeah

There's a little time to concoct a little moment like she goes over to a SC. She's like whenever you're I got a good one I got one here Like the next line should be like, you are not the father. Like it's just the middle of this chaos. That's just fucking insane. Those are our representatives. Yeah.

Yeah, that's insanity. I mean, other countries have to be laughing at that. I would, if I was China, I'd be like, oh my God, this is amazing. How could we have known our plan would work so well? So well? So well It is what it is really wild so well. Yeah, and this is what uh, and this is this is who votes on war Huh? I mean they don't actually get the vote on war if it makes you feel any better

But the only thing that gives me hope is that maybe enough competent people will see these folks and go you know What I have to fucking run Like this is ridiculous like this is this is absolutely maybe some successful business people that were on the edge Yeah, so push them towards the you know just someone who just gets cut the fucking shit or even if not running I do think there's thing like look like Elon Musk buying Twitter I do think was kind of like a move of kind of like okay He's not gonna run for office. That's probably not his calling in life, but he was like, okay Yeah, you can't be president. Well, that's right. Well, he couldn't be president, but he could run for something else

But that's not you know, I must best use of his abilities but to buy Twitter and just be like, hey look I see what's going on here We're gonna make this one social media platform that isn't in lockstep with all of the other progressive ones things like that are really important so But if they make it so that you could have been born somewhere else and be president in the United States Running Twitter SpaceX and Tesla while being president is the most Elon Musk thing That's true that he wouldn't even step down. It's not important. I can get it all done Get it all done Have a few meetings

Well, I mean but then if you did that the thing is like this is what all the conspiracy theorists are Fearing about these people coming into the country They're fearing that the people coming into the country what they're gonna do is offer them citizenship in regards to in in replacement of military service. So they'll serve the military, then become citizens, and then if there's some sort of a crazy thing that breaks out, well then you have your immigrant army against the original people that were here when they got here. Yeah. No, I mean, there's a lot of concerns with that. Yeah, because otherwise AOC reveals darker intentions behind Marge Taylor Green. She's saying that she kind of did this on purpose to derail the the

actual hearing they were having because after that happened they went into chaos they stopped doing what they were there to do actually and just had like a vote without having any amendments or any more discussion. It's a microcosm what authoritarians do on a larger scale. I don't think she's thinking that far-ahead Margie Taylor Green is a wild lady I don't think she had a master. Why shit. I think she was just insulting her Assaulting her she's talking shit. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there. I can't imagine that she's doing this as Like some for 4d chess move. I don't see I don't see her behaving like Netanyahu

I think the simplest explanation is that she just wanted to insult that chick eyelashes. That's probably that's my guess Because they were talking they were insulting each other right because she said you don't know what you're talking about Like she said something about did you read you didn't even read it like I think yeah You're messing up with your fucking fake eyelashes Yeah, she chimed in first saying do you know what here for but that was after she was saying that she was derailing it right away I don't think you know what you're here for I think your fake eyelashes are messing up what you're reading So the other girl what did the other lady say before that to her cut off that we didn't see in that clip That's what I was just going like didn't see in that clip. Oh. That's what I was just going like,

maybe she didn't think it was the whole thing, but also maybe someone just said before, hey, if you get a chance to fuck this up, go for it. I suppose it's possible. It's certainly possible. It's always possible. But I just don't, I think that that's just how she behaves. Yeah, but at the same time, if you were like her,

and then someone came up to her and was like hey I need you to like mess this up and draw it out. She'd be like no problem I You got the right bitch for the job on this one, I'll tell you yeah You know my favorite guy was that the the gay dude who lied about his past completely Santos yeah, and now I just talk shit about everybody. I know Dude his lies were so crazy too Like they would be lies like it wasn't even lies like with like a political benefit to it or something

It was just like a lie like it's like, you know It's copped and as captain of the volleyball team at Harvard and They were like not only did you not play volleyball you never went to Harvard Just making up things we were like Just making that it was like lies like that What did he lie about Jamie? But he's hilarious man when you hear him interviewed He's fucking hilarious where he turns on talk about how they're all stealing money And this one's the most this one's the worst

That's great well he's a con man in a fucking sea of con men according to New York mag he lied about this By the donors allegedly lie to donors then use their money to make purchases at Hermes and only fans used their money to make purchases at Hermes and OnlyFans. He used campaign money for personal travel and Botox. Oh my god, I love this guy. He allegedly lied to collect unemployment benefits. Oh my god, that's so funny. He's charged with stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors' credit cards. Wait, where you going?

I'm just going down the list. Yeah, but I'm reading it. Where, where? It's right here. This is where I was. Okay. Hello, stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors credit cards without their authorization, lying to the FEC and by extension, the public about the financial state of his campaign. the public about the financial state of his campaign. So Santos falsely inflated the campaign's reported receipts

with non-existent loans and contributions that were either fabricated or stolen. So he's just making up numbers about how much money they had, stealing people's money. Dude, spending campaign contributions on OnlyFans and Botox is just the, I mean, it's hard not to root for that guy. Oh, listen, they're all crooks

Look the the inside trading is off the chart that is it is so crazy that that's legal It's so crazy that that's legal so while that's going on you're gonna get mad this guy for this seems minor Do you look at no that's it and that's what's so kind of like funny about it is that like you think about um Dude the Clintons, okay. Bill and Hillary Clinton have since I was a little kid. I mean, I maybe since I'm basically since I was like four or five years old was when he was governor in Arkansas, they were, their entire career is they were public servants and they ran a charity and they're

entire career is they were public servants and they ran a charity. And they're worth like $100 million or something like that. Like, wait a minute, huh? You guys haven't been practicing law any of this time. You haven't been working in some industry where you've made tons of money. You were public servants who make, you know, healthy salaries, but not like that's going to put you in the

hundreds of millions of dollars, and you ran a charity, the Clinton Foundation. And now somehow you're, Barack and Michelle Obama, they were, they just, he goes into the White House, look at the house he lives in now. It's like, so you're every, it's like, there is almost something where everyone turns at Santos. Cause obviously like that's such a cartoonish easy, you, easy version of it. But it is kind of wild that there's so much outrage against this guy. And it's like in the same sense where

there'll be corruption in, say, some Eastern European countries. There's corruption where the level of corruption is like, if you get pulled over by the cop, you could slip him some money And he'll let you go now We don't have that in America right like you don't you can't really ever slip a cop money when he pulls you over in America You may wish you could in certain situations, but you can't really do that No, I'm not saying it's never happened, but you really can't do that in America

But we have like the prison guard union lobbying to keep mandatory minimums on marijuana So like okay, you could look down your nose at this primitive form of corruption But think about how fucked up that is you know what I mean They're like and that's just all it is is just corruption on a much much bigger level legal corruption exactly and everyone just accepts it It's a wild time my friend, because people have access to information now that allows them to really see all this stuff. Like the insider trading thing has probably been going on forever, but we didn't even hear about it until about a decade ago. Yeah, very rarely came up. Very

rarely. It was just kind of accepted that like all of these people are rich. Yeah. And we don't really know where they got their money from. Except Jimmy Carter. And that's one of the things that people loved about Jimmy Carter. Because Jimmy Carter to the end really just maintained a very simple lifestyle, you know, and just never chased money. He never was that guy. He didn't do those crazy speeches where he talks to bankers and makes half a million dollars

for some strange reason Yeah, those those speeches are wonderful because those are the cutest those are the cutest ones He's like wait a minute your policies benefited these corporations and then surprise surprise Those people after you leave office want to hear you talk so badly They're willing to fuck the market up. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you Hundreds of thousands of dollars to come talk. Yeah, well I'll tell you, they're willing to give you hundreds of thousands of dollars to come talk. This is also, I think, where there's a flaw.

Okay, so this is maybe one of the reasons why I'm a libertarian and not a progressive. I mean, there's many reasons, but one of the things that I think a lot of progressives, who I think are well-intentioned, their big thing will be like, we gotta get the money out of politics. And what they mean by that is that we can't let,

you know, say corporations contribute to political campaigns or something like that, because then of course they're just basically buying, you know, corruption. But I think like, the flaw, like Cenk Uygur and people like that, that's like his big issue, you know, is get the money out of politics. I think the flaw in that is that,

yeah, but they always find a way to get, look those speeches that's not contributing to anyone's campaign and that's not technically rewarding you for for bailing out the big banks. It's just you happen to bail out the big banks and then they happen to really want to listen to what you have to say after that. And we of course the book deals warranted. You want to read your book. It's like the idea that you could ever close down on every single loophole. Look, the Saudis weren't allowed to contribute money to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign

because you're not allowed to do that. But they could give $10 million to the Clinton Foundation. And then once Hillary Clinton lost, it's so weird. They stopped donating. Like, I don't know, they just stopped being interested in charity. The House of Saud was really interested in charity for a while there in 2016.

And then they stopped being so interested. So essentially I think like the libertarian view on it is that it's like, no, no, no, whatever rule you wanna have, if you have this much power in Washington, D.C., that power's gonna be corrupted and people will find a way. The only answer is to reduce the power. Yeah, and isn't the charitable foundation thing a sneaky tax way of making money? Oh, yeah for sure

There's because there's a thing about charitable foundations like everyone who's like really rich seems to have a foundation Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm I'm not the expert on that or anything else really, but I know that they Certainly like get a whole bunch of tax breaks that you wouldn't get if you just started a business. Well, not only that, but if they're doing things like Gates, for instance, to promote global health. Right? So he gets involved and he makes money off vaccines.

So he sells his stock and then starts talking badly about them. Yeah. I mean, it's eh, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, of that is nothing because the legislation that they're passing or the policy that they're pushing is making these special interests hundreds of billions of dollars. So if you buy off a politician for 20 million bucks and you get, you know, like a no-bid contract that's going to be worth 200 billion dollars to you, that's a pretty good return on investment. There was a article about this particular area of Virginia

that's like the most expensive real estate in the country. And it's all where the lobbyists live. And I think it is it Blinken whose house that they're picketing in front of that they've been essentially there since. See if you can find it. I think it's Blinken's home. He has some crazy fucking setup there. fucking dope ass old-school mansion and

They're all camping out in front of his house is the Palestine free Palestine people and so they've decided to constantly protest in front of his house Yeah, Anthony Blinken's family is the latest target of Washington's ugliest protest trend So they just camp out in front of his house and they're pouring blood on the ground. I mean, it's a little weird to do with your baby. Stop the genocide in Gaza. I like this better than just blocking the road. It's definitely better than blocking the road. The blocking the road is the dumbest fucking thing

of all time. And you know, I mean, this is what people do if you're involved in war. You know, if you're involved in war you know if you're involved in people dying welcome to kibbutz blinkin oh Jesus yeah so that I think they've been there like for months yeah I think they just it's a constant encampment and they've got this thing where they're just gonna protest protest in front of this guy's house I

Do prefer taking it to the people who are actually somewhat responsible over just kind of in can go into Jerry Seinfeld shows And yelling at him. Yeah, this is at least makes more sense now that guy's got to sell that house You gotta get out dodge, bro. Yeah, there might be time to leave. Don't worry, I'm sure the market's up. He'll do fine on that house. I'm sure he probably has a couple other houses too. He probably doesn't have to stay there. But it really is. You got one of them houses?

Oh, you got a little spot over there, a little spot over here. It is crazy though that they don't, like our leaders don't even feel the urge to like kind of not shove it in all of our faces. Right. That there's, like, that this whole thing is just... You know, it's all just kind of like,

oh, how much money can I extract from this pot and get myself wealthy? You don't feel like any sense of... And I will say, the one who I, like, kind of personally resent the most, which maybe is unfair, but is Obama. Because so many of us did kind of buy into at least to some degree, the thing he was selling in 2008. And you're like, wait,

but you don't feel like you have you seen pictures of the house he lives in? Well, he's got multiple houses. He's got one in Hawaii. Yeah. But I'm talking about the one in a Martin's vineyard. An article about the house that he had. And there's a fun fact about the street that it's on It's oh, yeah a bunch of Saudis own it, right? Yeah Also known as northern Virginia's Gold Coast the road features opulent homes on large properties perched high above the Potomac With sweeping views such a state sell for tens of millions of dollars as was the case when AOL co-founder Steve

Case sold his estate to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia for 43 million in 2018 This must be dope views find us a view find us a view northern Virginia Gold Coast real estate Let's see what we can get for 50 million You know all right see if you can get for for all the fucking Instagram ads that they want you to run for this political party if you If you cover the 50 I'll have them the taxes Let's see what the views look like because if it's over the Potomac and they perched high above it must look insane

Oh, there was a little image back there if you click images real estate images image back there. If you click images, real estate images. There was one pretty spectacular view that last thing. Let me see some view. So these are these these are like these old school like Connecticut style house. Yeah. You know, like fucking the great Gatsby that kind of deal You know those those I have a buddy of mine who works in Connecticut He lives in Connecticut, too But he he works at a school where a lot of these like people send their kids It's like these fucking houses are ridiculous their old school mansions on these giant properties and they They all do drugs and fuck each other's wives and go crazy

and all the taxes spend all their fucking their real estate holding money and all their stocks and bond money. These are dope ass houses. Look at that. What a view. They're cool looking houses. That must be awesome living there. So that's where all those., but your neighbors are all demons Yeah, that's just surrounded by people that are literally the cause of all the problems of the world if you're comfortable

If you're comfortable selling your soul, there's a really nice house party and with lobbyists whoo You imagine if you just like slip in you know how like the like the Israelis they infiltrate Hamas I can imagine you're an Israeli soldier, and you've infiltrated Hamas like nobody knows I'm inside And you're you're all you mean you maybe have to kill a few people I'm sure you have to do something probably have to do something otherwise. They're not gonna trust you, but imagine if you get like infiltrate We have to do something otherwise they're not gonna trust you but imagine if you can like infiltrate Lobbyists do coke with them party with them Some fucking dude who owns a sub shop chain or something like that

You know you're also you're hanging around with these guys and they get comfortable with you I'm so real like they did with McChrystal like with that embedded reporter. Yeah. Yeah when well that was Michael Hastings Yeah, we got it. Yeah, they were at a bar and they just got him talking shit about Obama. No, no, no, no, no the the volcano blew What there was a volcano in Iceland so he got stranded there. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah I think so the volcano in Iceland shut down air travel So Hastings is embedded with this troop and McChrystal sort of talking shit. They get comfortable Yeah, there's the company you can't keep the act up with the reporter around forever after a few months is embedded with his troop. And McChrystal starts talking shit. They get comfortable. You can't keep the act up with the reporter around forever.

After a few months, or a few weeks at least. I think also because he was a Rolling Stone reporter. It was like their guard was down a little bit more. They weren't like, this isn't like a Washington Post or New York Times. He'll probably run some kind of pop story about this. You know what I mean? And then he really ran the story. Yeah, I'm like these quotes of the guy disparaging Obama

Yeah, and he was forced to resign and there's something really interesting about that though Too just like a little bit of a window into like the long business Well, well, I just mean that there could be generals who are just like, you know And their private time being like had to fuck this guy is bullshit like, you know, in their private time being like, eh, dude, fuck this guy and his bullshit commands, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure they got them all tape recorded. Yeah.

You know, like, that wasn't the thing about the Mossad with Bill Clinton. Was that our story that just came out recently with the Monica Lewinsky thing? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I did see something about this. Right, right, right. They had something. Yeah, they'd recorded him.

They're fucking good, man. They're good, and they catch those dirtbags those dudes They're just like pussy hounds you get two types of people that want to be president warmongers and pussy hounds That's all you get and sometimes if you're lucky you get a pussy hounds also Yeah one of one of two it's almost like okay if your dick still works You'll be a pussy hound if your dick doesn't still work Then you got to launch rockets to like make up for that so it's like that it's almost the same impulse Maybe but sometimes if you dick works, you're like hey, don't fuck this up. I'm trying to get late. Yeah, well, that's what I mean That's what you probably rather that war sometimes when you're an old man, and you don't want to fuck anymore

You're like look enough already Just I want to play golf. Yeah, I was relaxed going to the Sun so we come over it stop stop stop stop stop stop I've had my sex. I've blown up my friends. Let's just chill. That's what we need. Yeah That's the argument that that's what Trump is at this point of his life Well, oh man. I don't know. I mean, I don't know either. It's such a weird goddamn situation. It's the worst situation. Everything they throw at him, it just backfires, and it just makes him stronger and stronger.

And it looks like this case is falling apart. It looks like almost all of them are falling apart. The one in New York, though, apparently they thought it was the most flimsy. Like, a lot of legal experts thought it was the most flimsy going into it, but now it's completely falling apart. They have contradic contradictory statements that she made to Bill Maher. And then they also have Michael Cohen just admitted he stole like

$30,000 from the Trump campaign. So that's not good. The really fascinating one was the which that sounds like what Michael Cohen would do. The really interesting one was the FBI with the picture of the top-secret classified. Cohen would do the really interesting one was the the FBI with the picture of the Top secret classified classified yeah tell tell about that because most people aren't even aware of this well it Seems that the FBI you know when you see the pictures of him on the ground there with all the classified cars like oh That was put there by the FBI So it's not as if like it was presented as if oh look This is what Donald Trump was doing the sheets that said top secret and classified didn't exist before the FBI

came right they put the sheets saying that right and then they saw like there were the documents and they put pictures of these new things that they put over the documents that said top secret and classified then they took a picture this is very important to just make this distinction because the documents that said top secret and classified, then they took a picture. This is very important to just make this distinction, because the documents were classified, but they didn't have fucking signs on them like TNT. Well, and it also is, it's seeming more and more like there were several instances where it seems that Donald Trump

was constantly being trapped, going all the way back to the 2016 campaign, if you remember, there was this famous meeting with the Russian at the Trump Tower Hotel. But when you actually look into it, what happened was like some Russian woman said she had dirt on Hillary Clinton. They got there to a meeting with her and she had nothing.

And then they were all like, okay, whatever. But then the story was, oh, he's conspiring with the Russians And it seems that oh that was a trap to get Donald Trump to do that so that they could make it look like he was Conspiring with Russians, and there's just been several things like this over and over again How about the fact that Hillary Clinton funded the Steele dossier? Yeah? That whole thing and then you know so they're easy so she's that's happened confirmed Oh 100% let's confirm that the Clinton campaign funded the steel dossier Said that there was so many

Sheets used that they had to start using handwritten sheets to cover up the classified info. That's what they say, right But the thing is the photographs show, that show printed out pieces of paper that say classified and top secret, and those weren't there. They put those there. So it's not that they covered up some of the documents before they took pictures of them. That makes sense. Isn't that to cover up the information? Could be, but you're taking photographs with pieces of paper that say classified and top

secret. It certainly gave, it gave an impression of something that was classified and top secret. It gave an impression of something that was different than what was actually there. It most certainly does because it's like oh my god he knew these are classified and top secret, he knew he had these, he did this deceptively. And it's also just the visual, the optics of like look classified and just laying on the floor there like that. Look it makes sense if you have to document okay this one's classified, this one's top secret, let's put a piece of paper on it. But as soon as you put the piece of paper

on it that says those things and you photograph them, you're saying this is how you found it. Right. Or at least allowing you to deduce that for yourself. You should have to be very specific about these classified and top secret sheets were not a part of the evidence. They were put on top to label that evidence. But they were probably like,

we don't have to do that. It looks bad, it looks bad. Well, that classified top secret stuff looks bad. And look, and it's just very clear, for anybody who's like being honest and paying attention, it's just very clear that there's like, there's a political motivation involved here. That these guys are trying to hurt Donald Trump's

reelection or election campaign. And that in itself is like just so wild. Well, how about the fucking White House press secretary saying she can't comment on, because it involves the 2024 presidential election. So she can't comment on Trump's trial because it involves the 2024 presidential election. So she can't comment on Trump's trial because it involves the 2024 presidential election. We're just so ridiculous.

You can comment on the election. Your whole job is to comment on the election. Also, you're not supposed to say that that trial is about the fucking election. Yes, right. That's the other thing you want me to do. You're not supposed to say that. DNC Clinton campaign agreed to steal dossier funding fine.

They got a fine? Oh they 100% They got fined a hundred and thirteen thousand dollars to federal Federal Election Commission investigation into whether they violated campaign finance law by misreporting spending on research that eventually became the infamous steal dossier. That is wild. That all that cost them was $113,000 imagine that's a real that's a good deal PR you got out of that how much fucking Trump colluded with Russia talk you got That's okay. Just be real quick. Yeah, let's let's be and then I'll be right because I talk about this more cuz will be We'll be right back That was the studio where we got in trouble

I got in trouble because I said that if I was talking to a 21 year Old healthy kid. I wouldn't tell him to take that shot wasn't that in here That wasn't the other one that was in the red one the early days But I was our that might have been our first podcast in Austin. Yeah, probably together was probably was well It aged pretty goddamn good Joe. It's pretty goddamn good, didn't it? Yeah it's crazy to think about, I swear to God, this is always, especially now, because we've been doing these shows together

for so many years, that you can go back and look at the things that were so wildly controversial to say then. And they were 100% accurate. And they were totally accurate, and now it's not even controversial at all this age. It's just like, oh yeah, that's common sense now. Yeah, most of those things now.

And it's just I Think these kind of conversations though contribute to the public's distrust in Mainstream media they really know they know what the fucking game is now as a really interesting statement because that's their argument You know what? I mean that like that's CNN's argument about why we need to cancel Joe Rogan is because your conversations contribute to the public mistrust. But then my counterargument to that is like, yeah,

but that's good. Because no one should trust you. You did that to yourself. Yeah, you guys are a bunch of liars. Yeah, you're a bunch of liars, and I should have sued you. I mean, dude, 100%. Slam dunk. Yeah.

I don't want to go to court. I'm not interested in that. No, that's why. I mean dude 100% slam dunk. Yeah I know I know now that's why I mean like I just want to feel like like I know how this game Be has played out. It's like when you're doing jujitsu with someone and you're in the half guard and you're like I'm getting out of this I'm getting out of this half guard and I'm gonna mount you. Yeah. Well it did I mean look it it totally blew up in their faces and and they're done I mean after the kovat stuff. I don't see any recovery I think the corporate media is just gonna get less and less influence It's already you see how much it's moved up Look one of the big ones to go back to what they do they were trying to do this with the reorganization of CNN

They were trying to get back to hardcore objective journalism without some sort of editorial bias because they said, listen, this is the only way out of this. Yeah. But even that was never really, it was like, it was like, Hey, let's not be so blatantly anti Trump and let's get back to just, you know, when they say, yeah, but still protecting all the powerful people. And still, it's not like there was ever really going to be, look, you're never going to like see a discussion on CNN be. Look, you're never gonna see a discussion on CNN about how you have these think tanks in Washington, D.C. who advocate for war and they're funded by weapons companies.

What do you think that means? Is that ever once come up on CNN? No. Never, and it never will. Do you think that they would ever have a Anderson Cooper which is brought to you by Pfizer, investigation into Pfizer? That seems unlikely.

Of course not. Seems unlikely. And look, it's not even, again, take the example of, say, even Chris Cuomo, right? Who now, he's over with Valuetainment with Patrick Bitt David, our boy, and all of a sudden he's talking about vaccine injuries and Ivermectin and all of this.

It's like, well, why is it when you're at CNN, which is, you know, sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies, you don't talk about this, but as soon as you're over here, now it's okay to talk about this. You know, you just, you kind of see it like happen that it's like, Oh yeah, no, there are, there are, there's, there's humongous power centers in America. There's like the pharmaceutical industry, there's the banking industry, there's the war industry, there's all these big ones. And none of them ever get really questioned in the corporate media.

Like one little action might be questioned every now and then, but the whole system as a whole never gets questioned. You'll never see like a real, you'll never see a piece on CNN about like, do we really need a central bank? Does the Federal Reserve do more good for the American people or does it do more good for Wall Street, you know? Like that conversation will never come up.

It won't. Because there's too many powerful people who would be, you know, like scared by that. And if that's the case, we're never going to have logical solutions to a real informed measure that we could put into place to fix things. It's not going to happen. It's captured by money.

But I'm very encouraged by certain things, right? And I'll say, Tucker getting fired from Fox News and being bigger than he was on Fox News is really amazing. It's pretty wild. Nothing like that's ever happened before. Also wild that he interviewed that dude who said he blew Obama. I was like, yo, I forgot to ask him about that.

You were talking, he got me with the UFOs. He had an agenda, god damn it. He came in and got me where I'm soft, right off the bat. Got me with UFO and angel talk. I was like, whoa, this is a good one. It's also pretty funny just coming here like, hey, Joe Logan, you ever heard of UFOs before? I've heard of UFOs.

Well, I did definitely want to talk to him about that. No, of course. Because he's got this very specific perspective that's very biblical. He's got a very religious perspective on it. He thinks it's angels and demons, which is really fascinating, that there's good entities and bad entities

and that they've always been here. Like, that's a mindfuck and a half. Yeah, it sure is. Um, and I don't know, I don't really understand much about it. I also haven't talked to Tucker about that, and I would be interested to, because he will allude to at points like that,

he's had people inside the government kind of confirm things. See, I almost want to ask him, not even on air, just like off air, like, okay, so what exactly was... He will allude to at points like that he's had people inside the government kind of confirm things. So I almost want to ask him, not even on air, just like off air, like, okay, so what exactly was? It's one of the craziest things that Bob Lazar said. And he said this way back in the 1980s. He said there's a very bizarre religious aspect to it.

And see if you could find him saying this, because I don't want to paraphrase this, but he said that what they were, he said it's gonna sound crazy to say but the way they have it described is a human beings are vessels for souls that were containers and that that's why they're interested in us that were containers of of souls. Now I want you to imagine a scenario where AI is ubiquitous in the universe and that this is where intelligent creatures they get to a certain point in their evolution where they create an artificial intelligence and that artificial intelligence is far superior. But in order to do it again on another planet, you kind of have to start

the same way you did it on Earth. You got to start with biological organisms that have souls. So if you want to make intelligent life, you got to start out with souls. Because you have to have these creatures that have like these human reward systems about breeding and controlling resources and controlling real estate and Territory and that those are the ones that are gonna like scramble to innovate and then they give birth To this superior life form, but the only way to do it again somewhere else is you got to do the same thing so like if you believe that life Exists in a similar form all throughout the cosmos, that

there's kind of similar fish and kind of similar things, I don't know if that's the case. We have no evidence. What we're seeing in these different galaxies, what we're seeing in these different solar systems that we observe is planets in these Goldilocks zones. If that was the case, that the way to get these things to keep doing it, you need to get, it's the soul. It's the thing inside the living organism that's causing biological evolution, the actually essence of the creature. That this thing is what's going to determine whether or not it hits the innovation level required to achieve Artificial intelligence and then that's what they are. So what we are to them is like these little soul containers cuz you don't have souls anymore

How about that mind fuck listen it is a mind fuck But why would there be any classified material dealing with religion and it's about that period but why would there be any classified material dealing with religion? I want to go back to the religion thing I want you to say it just it's so it's so far out it's alright your objection has been noted okay what does it say? that we're containers that's how that's how supposedly the alien look at us. That we are nothing but containers. Containers of? Containers.

Maybe containers of souls. You can come up with whatever theory you want. That we're containers and that's how we're mentioned in the documents. That religion was specifically created so we have some rules and regulations for the sole purpose of not damaging the container Yes Wrap your head around that There is we're about five years away from talking to a robot Dave Smith. That's indiscernible from you if that thing has

quantum computing power it's fucking metalhead and It becomes another version of life a much more superior version of life And then they keep doing that forever all throughout the cosmos, but the only way to get there Are you gonna start having AI Dave on the podcast instead of me? I want to do my ads for me You still want to do my ads for me Well, I don't want AI Joe to do the podcast because AI Joe is going to have to rely on all of my opinions I formed up until now and I might change them tomorrow Yeah, I can't have AI Joe assume it's gonna know how I think about things because I don't know how I think about things

I like to be open-minded to the point where I'm willing to take into consideration new ways of looking at things, new possibilities. I don't know if AI is gonna do that. It's gonna be too smart for that. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it is an interesting, it is such an interesting thing,

but on the point of containers, isn't there something, and I'm literally just kind of thinking out loud as I say this, but there is kind of something where we all do except to some degree that that's true that we're kind of container I mean like just in the sense that you seen a dead body. Well, right if you look at a dead body, it's like Empty. Yeah, you don't look at that. Like oh, that's there's that you're like, no That's put that in the ground because the the person what we think of is the person is gone Yeah, I'm not saying there's anything like controversial about that statement like an atheist or a religious person or what we think of as the person is gone. Now, I'm not saying there's anything, like, controversial about that statement, like an atheist or a religious person

or anyone would kind of agree with that, but it's something we all just kind of take for granted, but if you really think about it, it is like the magic of what makes us us is something that's being contained by this meat shell, and it's different, it's not the same thing, and it's not really anything that we, at least at our level of scientific understanding, meat shell and it's different, it's not the same thing, and it's not really anything that we, at least at our level of scientific understanding, can really tangibly measure.

What is it from the reductionist atheist position, like electromagnetic waves in your brain? And then when that goes, it's just a piece of meat now again? I don't know. It's a little bizarre. We don't really understand it. And then the thing is, okay, if we we have souls do other animals have souls, too Like sure seems like dogs do dogs definitely do they there's something There's a weird relationship that we have with dogs. It's very strange. My dog is basically my son

He's like my dog son. I mean I think of him like a like a person like he snuggles with me He's probably more affectionate to me than anybody in my house Daughters give you attitude They don't snuggle with their dad on the couch He just like when I watch TV he hops up on top of me puts his head on my chest and he watches fights with me He chills with me He's a golden retriever. And those are also the just friendliest dogs. They're the most loving.

They're the most loving and lovable dogs. They're so lovable. And he's so enthusiastic. We went swimming yesterday. And this fucking dog will not, because he's not hot if he's swimming. So he's got crazy endurance. So he just keeps going for an hour and 15 minutes.

I threw the ball into the water and he minutes. I threw the ball into the water, and he fucking leaps off the deck into the water and gets the ball, comes back out, drops it at your feet. Let's go. Let's go again. It's like, you know how, like, hyped a UFC fighter gets, like, right before the fight? It's like, dude, dogs just have that energy always if you want to do anything.

Yeah. And you're just like, you want to go in the car, they're like, let's go! Let's fucking do this! Yeah, he goes crazy. I could barely get the in the car. They're like, let's go. Let's fucking do this. Yeah, he goes crazy. I could barely get the collar on him. He's spinning around in circles. I'm like, sit still, dude.

Yeah, and he will never stop being enthusiastic about the ball. I threw the ball for him this morning. And I always think, today's going to be day. He's tired of this fucking ball. No. It's like, oh, the fucking ball. He's got the ball.

Woo, woo, woo, woo. He starts spinning around in circles. He jumps up towards it. It's hilarious, like he never loses enthusiasm. There's gotta be something that we can learn from that. Because we get comfortable with familiarity and we get bored with things. We don't wanna do the same thing over and over and over

again if it's that simple, like chasing a ball. But the enthusiasm that he had, the first time he chased the ball He has the exact same maybe more so because now he knows it's fun Yeah, he can't wait to do it again But there's something about like cuz uh cuz dogs are I think essentially right like we bred them to be kind of like babyish wolves Like they're wolves that are kind of kept in a perpetual state of immaturity Right cuz like I think well I think but basically I think. Some of them, yeah.

Well, I think that, but basically I think the qualities that you see in baby wolves, like a baby wolf will be almost indistinguishable in terms of how they could be domesticated from like a puppy. Yeah. But it's as they grow older. They don't take your bullshit. Right, right.

So it's almost like we kind of kept the traits that keep you young, because it's the same thing, it's the same thing with having little kids. Which is what they're trying to do to men Does seem like there is an attempt to kind of domesticate and uh, yeah soften Yeah, keep men as like 13 year old boys that follow the rules. Shut the fuck up Yeah, the wolf thing is really interesting because I am generally opposed to a weakening of a life form for for human pleasure like that's bizarre that you take a fucking wolf and turn it into

Carl over there, but that's that's what happened. That's what happened. Carl's cute, but he's not much of a wolf But I love Carl so like I'm conflicted like part of me loves dogs and the other part of me like I love wolves. I want them to be wolves Well, we still are wolves out there We took those bitch ass wolves that didn't want to hunt and they wanted to come by the fire and really hey bark If a fucking bear comes by will ya yeah throw your bone, and then they made friends And then the wolves start drooping their ears. You know I'm your friend I'm your buddy. Do you know about the Russian Fox experiment?

No, they did it in Russia. They did this experiment where they wanted to see how quickly they could change a fox's Overall appearance their behavior and so what they did was they have these captive fox through breeding Yes, they're breeding and natural selection Captive Fox through breeding yes through breeding and natural selection Meaning shooting in the in the fucking head so whenever a fox was aggressive in any way shape or form towards humans bang dead Next ones they can't breed so the only ones that breed is like Shoot me, and so they probably are pretty aware

You know through the the zeitgeist that these fucking foxes are getting shot. You know this like something in the air It's probably some psychic in the you know morphic resonance something in the field It was a no hey people getting shot out here like you got to be nice these fucking humans See that thing he's got in his hand that thing will kill you with a squeeze of his finger And so they over a very short period of time turned them into completely different animals that had like big eyes Fluffy ears like ears that fell down soft their jaws got smaller They became more cute It's it I know I remember seeing a listen one of those like famous documentaries about dogs But I thought this this always like was very interesting to me is that they one of the major differences between

wolves and dogs is that they do this experiment where they'll put a piece of meat and it's in a cage, and the wolf or dog can't get to it. And the wolf will bang against the cage and try to get it over and over and over again. We'll just never stop. We'll just never stop doing it. But the dog will try to get it a couple times and then looks to the person.

And that's like one of the differences is that it's like been ingrained in dogs that you're also their partner. You know, like they'll look to you and be like, hey buddy, I know you got a few IQ points on me. Any idea how to get this meat out of this here cage? And like that's so deep in them. But the wolf would never think to do that.

Dogs look to you as the leader. The wolf never thinks you're the leader. Especially an unfixed male wolf. Shut the fuck up. Sit? Did you say sit? Who the fuck are you talking to, bitch? Don't you read Little Word Widing Hood?

That's me, motherfucker. I eat people. They had, in the same documentary, I can't remember what it's called, but they had this experiment where people were just trying to raise wolves Like domesticate them from puppies and raise them and it was interesting to see like it's as they start to get into like Adolescents and stuff and the wolves would be attached to them because they had raised them since they were little puppies But you can't train them the way you can train a dog

They're jumping up on the table and knocking everything off and they're not responding to down or here boy Fuck you did you see that video that was online today? I think it's el Cerritos, California There's a wolf running down the street. No, I didn't see this. Yeah wild It's a big boy to big wolf running down the street and this guy's driving and his cars like is that a fucking wolf? Dude, there's a fucking wolf running down the street in El Cerritos, California. Where is that? I don't know somewhere somewhere California, I think it's near Redwood Redlands from a year ago. Oh is it this yep? That's it yeah That's from a year ago, bro. That's a big-ass wolf in a street. That's an urban street. Look at that

That's a big wolf man. Yeah, it sure is That thing's big when you see them and you like think what would a dog look like there That's when it really dawns on you how big these things are. It's like a hundred fifty pound wolf. I'm guessing might be less Over a hundred, but it's uh running down the street like hey Yeah, like it's not worried at all. It like it's like your dog yeah yeah especially if you got a little dog a little dogs in trouble yeah elite coyotes too by the way it's gonna kill them too there's a weird I remember reading this book before the dawn I believe by Nicholas Wade.

And it's like a book on evolution, and there was a whole chapter about dogs and humans and how we evolved together. But it is this weird thing, how like, so you could look at, say, look at like a Yorkie or something like that, whatever the mo, and you could go like, well look, this thing couldn't survive like a second.

It couldn't get its own food for a sec. And you'd be like, well, isn't this like a flaw in evolution or something? But then you also realize that you could argue that it's basically won the evolutionary race because it has this human species that just does all of the work for them. Carries it.

Yeah, literally carries it, cleans its ass, puts food down for it. And you're like, oh yeah, this did work out pretty well for that thing. Worked out great. It is. It's gonna work out great for men, too Here's a good question would it go back to wolves

So like imagine if there was some sort of apocalyptic scenario all the power went off Most human beings are dead, but a lot of dogs survive. I think my guess, and this is a totally, just keep in mind I'm an idiot, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think if you're making an argument, would a German Shepherd, would eventually, if they were just left out of the,

would it just breed the harshest and toughest and most survivors, maybe not wolf, but you'd get some wolf-like creature, that Yorkie isn't gonna make it to generation two I've seen Yorkies no you're gonna take that you're not gonna make it but the dogs that are probably the closest to wolves probably would make it yeah especially in cold climates right so now they're outdoors now huskies and yeah yeah pretty like Kitas kind of wolfish wolf like ish well you'd come up with some badass version of them

Killers again, that would be trained. It'd be almost like they're not kept in childhood. They've become kind of grown-ups again What is that one crazy Russian dog? I know we've talked about it before It's this is one huge They use them to fight off wolves. These are like to protect flocks They use them to fight off wolves. They use them like to protect flocks Yeah, Caucasian Shepherd show me some images of the Caucasian Shepherd It's fucking enormous look at that thing looks like so much show me some images, okay? They they look fucking terrifying they look like super wolves. Look, it's just like this. Look at that giant fucking thing.

So that went the other way. Like they developed something that can fuck wolves up. And because they needed something to protect their flocks. They needed someone to protect their sheep and shit. So look at that size of that fucking thing. Wow. Bro, that thing's so huge. I think they're like 200 pounds. And they have fur everywhere So they're probably really hard to bite look at the size of that thing where it's hopping on that lady shoulders good lord So there's another one that other one the

Caucasian that one I think is even more ferocious I Think I might be wrong Think I might be wrong Bro fucking size of that thing though look at the size even with perspective Look at that thing. Yeah, these are very ferocious Tibetan mastiffs. Yes I raise I see your Tibetan mastiff. I raise you this coke right Tibetan mastiffs are another crazy looking animal, too Dude Dude, that guy looks like the guy who would have those dogs. Look at that thing. If you're a wolf, you're like, Ah, fuck! It's basically the Brock Lesnar of wolves, you know?

Everybody else is a welterweight and this motherfucker shows up. Yeah. Look at the size of that thing, dude. Yeah, you better heel hook that wolf. Kipro, you're done. That thing, you can't, you're not even gonna get through all that fur to bite him. Yeah, bro, you're done. That thing you can't it's you're not even gonna get through all that fur to bite him. Yeah. It's like a lion's mane. It's like literally like there to protect from the cold and bites. It

really does look like what the Russians would do with a dog. Of course that's what you did. We're making we're making little poodle mixtures over here. The Russians are coming up. You're like, ah shit, we should have been doing that. Of course the French made Carl too. We should have been doing that this whole time. You're telling me we can't produce munitions like the Russians and our dogs have to fight those dogs when the war goes down? Imagine, yeah.

I think we covered it all, Dave Smith. Anything else? Well, I think that should save the world for now. This is not, it's a long. It's a process. with anything else? Well, I think that that should save the world for now. This is not, it's a long. It's a process. There's gonna be many podcasts before. We're gonna have to do this a thousand times

to save the old world, and the new world is gonna be unstoppable. That's my fear. Hell yeah. Well, I gotta tell you, I'm almost at the point with this world where I'm like, let's roll the dice on these new overlords well Hopefully things will balance out and be much more logical when they're not run by humans

Well, I still I still believe in humans I think the that's the monopoly the the monopoly of information is broken Ron Paul will become president within the next 10 years He will reverse his age. He will that's right. That's what they do They just put Ron no also now we can do that If we can get if we can get Ron Paul young again Then this country's got a good chance Ron Paul needs to get on some daily nad drips and start testosterone therapy And you get on the peptides and NMN changes vitamin routine.

I gotta get him to lift some weights. He's doing pretty good. He's almost, I think he's 89, 88, something like that. And very coherent. And he's on top of it. And every time his show comes on, it's like, he's like, okay, here's the latest of what's going on in China, and knows everything.

He's just read everything about what's happening. Extraordinary. Dave Smith, you're the fucking man. I I love you brother. It's always great to talk to you and Stay offline for a couple days Bye everybody