The Joe Rogan Experience - #2240 - Roger Avary & Quentin Tarantino

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Quentin Tarantino is an Academy Award-winning writer, producer, and director known for films such as "Pulp Fiction" and "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood." Roger Avary is an Academy Award-winning director, screenwriter, and producer known for "The Rules of Attraction" and his collaboration with Tarantino on "Pulp Fiction." Together, they host the second season of their podcast, "The Video Archives," available now. www.patreon.com/videoarchives Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. So you're saying that someone was telling you how to kill someone with coffee? Okay, so I got to know all these, you were talking about some- His name's John McPhee. Yeah, Some operators. And I got to know through a friend, through a billionaire friend who loaned his plane to Clinton to fly those people out of, I think, North Korea. And so from that point on, he was surrounded by these guys.

And one of them, this guy, Mikey, which isn't his real name. I think he's actually named, they name them all after the archangels. So he was like Michael, Gabriel, like they take on these there's nothing creeper than an assassin with a biblical name. Archangel. Yeah. And well, you know and so um he You know we got to know each other because of our mutual friend and I think what happened was He and a couple of other guys You know, they were placed on me as like for surveillance purposes like, you know

Find out what the savory guys about maybe or just keep an eye on him or whatever and they told me right up front like Be nice to your surveillance you know like don't try to lose us or anything like that because I heard stories about how you know they're surveilling somebody and wherever Bolivia and suddenly some gang attacks their surveillance and they step in kick the shit out of the gang and so so I got to know these guys and naturally you, I'm a writer and filmmaker, and so I of course wanna talk to them about stuff, and they immediately started volunteering. Oh yeah, we've learned all these different ways

when I became an operator, blah, blah, blah. I learned how to kill people without, and I was just making a list now of the 10 ways to kill someone without leaving a trace. And I was like, well, just like when I told Quentin about this, he's like, well, what are those? I'd like to hear those. Everybody wants to hear those. And so one of the ones that I think is the best one is you inject someone with coffee caffeine, like just inject coffee into their bloodstream,

gives them a heart attack and it's untraceable. Later on they do an autopsy and they just discover caffeine in your system. That's it? That's it. Is this just right into the blood coffee it can kill you? Sometimes the simple way. Like just right into the juggler in it with a syringe. Yes, after extracting whatever information you need to get out of them. But how much coffee will kill you like that? I don't know. Is it the Turkish kind or is it Folgers? Cuban espresso. But he was a medic during the war.

And he was a medic and so he was kind of identified as someone who knew how to kill somebody very easily because you know what will work. Yeah. Because you're a medic. And so I would hear every now and then, oh, I'd kill some guy and some diplomat or something in the Philippines. And I'd hit him with my car. And then I'd look in my rear view mirror and make a determination, a medical determination of,

is the guy still alive? Or is he, I better finish him off and put him in reverse and drive him over again a couple of times and then take off and he's doing that all the time. All the time they're doing it. Well, Jamie and I were just talking and they think they have a photo of the guy who whacked that insurance CEO. Oh yeah, yeah.

Uh huh. Yeah, they think they have a photo of his face now. Oh, they do. Huh? Well, I would think with the amount of cameras. Or they picked it up later. I think, you know, there's cameras everywhere and that's part of the problem with someone and I don't think this guy amount of cameras. For the time where they picked it up later. I think, you know, there's cameras everywhere, you know, and that's part of the problem with someone and I don't think this guy was a professional.

I think this guy, if I had to guess, some guy who got fucked over. Apparently that company is really bad on denying claims. 34% denial rate. A normal is like 16. So those guys. I don't think anybody's going gonna like be crying too hard over that Maybe his family, but that's about it. Yeah, it's a dirty dirty business The business of insurance is fucking gross. It's gross and especially health care insurance. Just yeah fucking gross

well, actually all insurance I live in California and All of a sudden because I live adjacent to any kind of open space like nobody will insure my house because of fire, right? And so suddenly it's like I have a house that's uninsurable and it's not just me. It's everybody. Mm-hmm. And so it's chaos Yeah, yeah I'm a friend to try to sell a house in California and they turned out it was $125,000 a year just to get fire insurance Like what? Yeah, it's insane fucking nuts. It's insane. Yeah, but you know I was evacuated three times when I lived there

I used to live in Belle Canyon, and you know it was fucking it was rough I'm like I've been like I've been really lucky I live in I'm almost afraid to say it all right because I've been living in the Hollywood Hills that I've never any of the fire stuff happens never happen. Yeah, it is just luck Yeah, I mean the benefit of your place is you're at least in a helicopter accessible Well, they're just gonna dump all that fire retardant right on top of you I literally am kind of at the top of the hill on a bunch of rock All right, so if the whole place is it turns into a inferno, I'm still fucked. And I think that place has probably been there a while. It's probably withstood all sorts

of calamity. Yeah, when I was filming Fear Factor, I talked to this guy who was a fire guy for the fire department. He said, it's just going to be a matter of time. There's going to be one day where a fire hits LA and the wind is the right way and we're not going to be able to stop it. It's just going to burn right through to the ocean. He goes, it's just a matter of time. We all know it. I was like, the fuck dude. I go the whole city goes the whole city He goes when those big fires get going yeah, there's not a damn thing like what happened in Malibu a few years back Like those are I always thought Malibu those rich people

Maui That was like around 93 that actually happened while we were shooting Pulp Fiction. Really? Yeah, well there was a Malibu fire, the Malibu fire happened while we were shooting Pulp Fiction, so we actually set up a TV on the set because Bruce Willis was going to maybe loose his house. And so he was like, actually, so we have a little TV area so we can like, so in between takes we can watch what's going on with the fire.

And they're like, and there was all these reports that no, Bruce Willis and his family are on top of the house with their water hose. I go, no, he's not, he's right here. Well, the thing is, fires were normal. Like it used to be when I was young, you know, I grew up in California, and so when I was young, fires would burn through Malibu constantly. But now they put all those houses in there where there never were houses, because the fire is a natural process. It kind of clears the land, cleans the land, and it's normal, actually. But, you know, when you put all that kindling in there, suddenly we end up with these like super storms of fire

Yeah, it's I think it's over development which is the cause of these insane Kind of fires that we're getting yeah, but it's a cool place to live You're not gonna stop people from developing in Malibu. You know it's just too nice No, you're just take your chances. Roll your dice. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, well, but you roll your dice you take your chances and you roll your dice no matter where you live Yeah, it's just it's just fucked up when it happens like oh my god. Yeah, I drove home once We were filming fear fact we had to stop the set early because the fire were so bad this is like 2003 or something like four and

Driving home took me 55 minutes on the five to get home and the entire time the right side of the highway was on fire for 55 minutes everything like Lord of the Rings style. So three different times you got evacuated from your house? Yeah, three different times. So what is like okay so you decide what what you're gonna take with you kind of thing? Yeah, last time the last time was the last time it was like you know the last big fire in LA. And I came home from the Comedy Store at like one o'clock in the morning and my wife and I are looking out the window and the fire's like maybe five or 600 yards away

and it's coming over the hill. And we were looking at each other and I said, let's just get the fuck out of here before it gets bad. Let's just get out of here now. So we grabbed the kids, got a laptop, took some clothes. I didn't even have underwear. I said, we could just buy stuff. Who gives fuck. Yeah, you know cares if you have your life Yeah, I'm always the I don't want to say the stupid guy

But I'm the guy who for some reason always decides I'm gonna stay There's a fire hydrant across from my driveway There's a fire hydrant across from my driveway. You're the guy in the roof where the flood is happening. Hey, you're gonna rob my property! Yeah, that's me. My family went away and I was like, well, they're gonna close it out so we can't get back in. I'm just gonna hang out here until I know that it's... And, you know, at a certain point there was fire like cresting the ridge and I'm kind of watching it. I ran down to the fire department to see, you know, like, hey guys, it's coming. I can see it from my house.

And they're all there, like, hanging out and eating sandwiches and, like, not even worried about it at all. They're like, they kind of looked over at it and said, it's okay, it'll be fine. It'll just burn a little. Yeah, they get a little too blasé, blasé about fire. They're pretty blasé.

By the way, my Spec Ops friend, he's like, fuck those firemen, man. Fuck them. They get so much, like, credit for, like, nothing those firemen, man. Fuck them. They get so much credit for nothing. They barely do anything. They're on these incredible pension plans. Like, rah rah rah. He hates firemen.

That's ridiculous. Well, it is a great job, but you can't get mad at someone for having a great job. For having a great job. There's a buddy of mine that I used to play pool with. Well, he has to actually hump it into another country and kill somebody. So, like, it's- Well, the thing is- He's, well, the thing is he's not getting enough credit.

That's what it is. That's really what it comes from. That's the, well, that's the better way to say it. Yeah, that's the, that's the reality of our world today. Those people don't get enough credit, but firemen, you know, it is a great fucking job. But I like the way he breaks it up. Fuck those cops. Fuck those posses.

It's like they have all these huge pensions and everybody thinks they're heroes. They're not heroes. I like the way he breaks it Everybody thinks they're heroes. They're not heroes That's funny because they're just doing their job the firemen are very comfortable with fire These people are very comfortable with people dying dying because of them exactly just get real They get blase blase about murder It's not murder if it's sanctioned by your own country. Isn't that wonderful? What a cool loophole. Yeah, isn't it? I had an interesting thing.

It's like, when you live in the Hollywood Hills, you're paying actually pretty decent property taxes. So you get, there's a little vig that comes with it. You get a reason why you don't have to wait two hours during election you're During election you just go to the you go to the local elementary school You're in and out in five minutes all right when it comes election day, but also It's one of those stupid things that you do that like What was a fucking idiot where you turn on the burner and then you like leave the room for a while? All right, and then you come back and all of a sudden your kitchen is flaming. And so-

Has that happened to you? That happened to me once. And so the alarm goes off and I hit the button. Let the fire department know. And then I put it out. I put it out like pretty much immediately and then maybe five minutes later it could have been three five minutes later the fire truck is at my door so I didn't even have time to say hey it's uh you know it's it's okay now it's okay and so there's an entire fire truck at my door and I let them in and go, look guys, I'm really sorry, I was really stupid.

I left the room with the pot on the stove and whatever in any way. And so I'm really sorry I wasted your time, I'm really, really sorry I wasted your time. Having said that, it's nice to see that you guys are here this quick. Yeah, and I'm sure they were like, oh, we'll just get a selfie. And they were like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Yeah, exactly. Your private taxes pay for something. Are you sure you don't want us to come in and just make sure? Yeah, go ahead if you want. The problem is sometimes they have to chop through the walls to make sure that the wall is not fired, embers inside. Yeah. Spray it all down.

It's a hard fucking job when it's a hard job though. The thing is, most of the time they're just chilling. You know, they get to cook, they eat, they work out. I take ice cream down to our guys. Like I'll go out and buy a bunch of ice cream or some pizzas and take it down, just on random days just to make them happy. Well actually it was funny. That's cool.

I'm okay with the fire guys. Well, it was actually funny because it was like one of the things that was a crack up Just to well actually was funny. That's cool. I'm okay with the fire guys It was actually funny because it was like One of the things that was a crack-up It was like the local fire department when we worked at video archives or video store the local fire department was a customer and so they'd rent different movies, but like it was almost out of Out of five movies that they would rent for pornos. Yeah No, they lived up to their

Career you guys work together. Yeah. Yeah. No shit. Yeah, you guys met. Yeah, that's how we met Wow Video archives in Manhattan Beach. How fucking cool. Yes, like 84. Yeah Yeah, maybe a little bit before 84. Well, I started officially at 84 because you were a customer before I was a customer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I was a customer before yeah, I Predated Quentin is one of the employees. So I was there. Look at you guys. Yeah That's crazy very unfortunate shirt on my part Crazy. A very unfortunate shirt on my part. There was a lot of unfortunate shirts in the 80s.

Everybody was confused. They cut the drugs off in the 70s. No one knew what to do for 10 years. That's exactly it. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, you would have never thought back then that that industry would completely vanish. You thought blockbuster video is going to be around forever. Well, you know, one of the things that

What I didn't think film was gonna vanish either yeah, I don't think the theater experience was gonna go away either but one of the things though that was the Death keel to video stores that no one ever like When they were talking mom and pop when they're talking old people When they were talking mom and pop, when they're talking old people, they're like, hey, you know, you've retired from your business, you've got a nice little nest egg. If you want to invest in a nice little business where you get to work with your neighborhood and be in a nice little store with your family, video stores, that's a good business. Well, I don't know anything about movies. Well, you have people help you, help you choose the titles and everything.

So there's a lot of people that like invested in this stuff and it seemed like a good idea. The reason that it seemed like a profitable idea was the idea like, well, you know, I sell you this video cassette and you pay for the video cassette, but the minute you rent it past the point and you pay for the video cassette. But the minute you rent it past the point that where you paid for the video cassette yourself, then everything else is you. All that other money that you make from here on in is just all profit once you pay for the actual cassette.

Of course, you'll have some cassettes that don't rent as well, but that's the way it works out, but it should work out great. Well, again, that sounds like a pretty good business model. Well, if I spend this money and then five years from now, boom, everything is a profit. Where it all fell apart is the idea that you always have to get new shit. Because it's not a bookstore.

Well, bookstores need to get new stuff too but it's not a library like life doesn't stand still every month there's new titles coming out and you have to be competitive and you have to get the new titles and so even if it if that were the issue that wouldn't be that big of a, but if you're a mom-and-pop store, you only have so much room. Yeah. So... It's literally a shelf space issue.

Within three to four years, you're bursting out of the seams of videos. You're just bursting out. You've got no more room. I never thought of that. You've got no more room. And so now all of a sudden, rather than having your tapes facing out, now everything is sideways. Spine facing. Spine facing.

And you've got to really, and it just never stops. It never stops. Next month you've got to get this, and next month you've got to get that, and next month you've got to get that. You need a Costco-sized building. Yeah. Well, again, if you have four different video stores or if you have a chain you can move things around and it's easier but when you're a mom and pop that's just it. You know, mom and

pop store and you have a bike store you don't have to keep getting new bikes every month. If you have a pottery store you don't have to keep getting new pots regardless of your inventory single month. Yeah, constantly have to grow your inventory. Every six months, you get something cool. You don't need to get it every month. And you're defined by you having the new shit. And then there was another problem when when companies that were massively funded like

Blockbuster came onto the scene, they would go in and they would kind of do this sort of gray market purchasing where they would buy, you know, 50 diehards and a mom and pop star can't afford to buy more than one or two diehards or three maybe to satisfy your clientele. Yeah, the thing is you'd spend the money like, okay, like, you know, one of our big titles when we in the early days of video was Top Gun. Yeah, Top Gun, perfect example. So you get like, you'll get even the mom and pop stories. You'll get 12 or 15 Top Guns.

Because everyone wants to see it. And at some point, it's going to be out. And it's going to be checked out. And so you've got to satisfy your- Well, you're going to, yeah, you'll rent all 15 of those for the next two weeks. It's going to be good. But then now you have to sell them off.

You know, for $10 a piece, you know, once the desire has died down. It largely fell on us because we were a smaller store and we had a blockbuster just a block away basically. Not even a block, we're talking about in the same fucking... Basically... Not a block away, it was in the... On the block. Yeah, in the on the block yeah in

the shopping center that we were in and yeah well you're missing the best the most interesting thing it's not about the the bulk buy the book by is that's what it is but that's every mom and pop store has to deal with that depending dealing with a franchise well what it changes your strategy though yeah but what blockbuster would do and they were famous for doing this, they were famous for doing this, but particularly they were strategic about it, is like, okay, we're gonna go into this town,

okay, we're going into Manhattan Beach. What's the biggest video store? What's the most popular local video store in Manhattan Beach? Well, that would be Video Archives. They're right on Sopulva. They're right across the street from the warehouse, which is one of the big rental places. Before Blockbuster, that was the place. Before Blockbuster, it was warehouse, warehouse, erections and tapes.

And they still manage to survive across the street from warehouse. And then what does Blockbuster do they buy the shaky's pizza that is in our shopping center our shopping center and they moved into the shaky's pizza because of like well okay we're house and with the these video archives guys well this is obviously the place to be so they just bought out the shaky's pizza and open up and they still couldn't shut us down yeah wow I'm sure they had the attitude of, well, just brush them aside. Oh, of course. Of course. That's how they. And so consequently, because you don't,

you can only get three or 12 top guns, whatever it is, it's not as many as Blockbuster is getting. You end up having to focus on like, how am I going to convince my clientele to watch something other than Top Gun this weekend? And so it landed on us to basically say, oh, you can't get Top Gun. Well, how about this movie that you haven't seen? But it's the difference between being a cool coffee place and being Starbucks, or a franchise bar and a cool little Joe's bar, and the bartender knows you. So it's like, look, if you just absolutely positively need Top Gun that weekend, then go to across the streets of the warehouse and get it.

All right, we have what we have. But we had customers that like came in every fucking day and part of their day or every other day, you know, when their camps were rent, were due. And they were people of the neighborhood. And they came in and Not only did they rent stuff they dropped stuff off and then they rented new stuff out But like they came in to talk to us for 20 minutes or 45 minutes like every other day

And there's no algorithm to tell them what to do. We're the algorithm. Yeah, you have to know. Oh this guy Oh, they're on a date night. So they're going to want this kind of rom-com type movie, or this guy, he really likes Vietnamese hooker porn tapes. I got to make sure to find something like that for him. And those kids, they're going to want some skate stuff, so I've got to learn all about the Bones Brigade videos and stuff like that. And so you just kind of figured out, how can I upsell the stuff that they haven't heard of?

Because invariably, anybody who comes in, they have- But you're making it just sound a little bit more cynical than it was. You are making it sound more cynical than it was. No, more like the challenge of it. You guys are like a married couple. Yeah, totally we're like a married couple. It wasn't that cynical.

Without the benefits. Tell them the whole story, honey. Just tell them the whole story. We were just hanging out, Totally we're like a married couple We were just hanging out and they're coming in We would pop a movie on and like You know pop the movie on and be watching scenes from and be talking about the scenes then a customer would come in or Many customers would come in and they just become part of the conversation and we would have like, you know Like a chat room in the... No, no, there was like,

no, there was about like 15 customers that like, you know, I talked to five hours a week, every week for five years. Yeah. Because they come in and I'm like, what's been at least 40 minutes every other day And I expected to see them and the other I watched what I watched on TV I saw what I saw at the movies and then they saw what they saw in the movies

They watch what they watched on TV We all talked about and they talked about the videos and then what else we're gonna get and that if you like that You're gonna like this about our lives and everything Yeah, so at what point in time while this is all going on Do you guys decide we need to make our own fucking movies? Well, it was always the case. Well, we were always thinking well well Roger and and Roger had another friend that it was a guy that connected me and Roger together was a guy named Scott who?

Took his own life at a certain point of his father owned another video store that I worked out as well And that Quentin used to come into but the thing is though That while I was just thinking about making movies Roger and Scott were like making movies on super 8 Yeah, and they were making little horror films and little zombie movies on on on on super 8 and supernatural thrillers Yeah, it's kind of an yeah, it's kind of a zombie movie. More of an afterlife. Okay, maybe. Okay.

But you're making like legit horror films. I'm just thinking about this stuff and these guys are like Sam Raimi-ing it. They're making their shit in their backyard and working on it for like three months and stuff. Yeah. And I was friends with all the punk guys because it was like LA punk. And so they were always in my movies. All the punks were in my movies because they were media literate.

They love movies. And so they were easy to pull in and to be in the film. So they were always playing like, you know, the gang of punks who beat somebody up or something. So it must have been cool working at a video store, though, because it's essentially like you have it's like an education well when the time came where we actually wanted to be making movies where we were talking about making movies because I can remember when I think it was It was around the time of sex lies and videotape or maybe she's got to have it

No, no definitely sex lies and videotape, but I remember you coming to me and saying The moment is happening. Yeah. Yeah. It's happening. Like a small movie is possible to get made. Like it's happening for us, for guys our age. Yeah, I mean, the one, you know, Sex Sized and Videotape was sort of like the, like the Seattle band that broke, all right. But I was already looking at Blood simple was my was my yeah, that's a great move was my in all right where it was that was

Okay, it's an artistic movie. It's our it's already. It's funny I can make it can play the art houses and play the art house circuit, but there's a genre base to it. Yeah. There's a genre base. It's like, it's a thriller. It's a film noir-y kind of thriller done in a certain kind of way, but it's a genre base. Yeah, I go, that's the way you do an art film. You do it, you make it a genre base art film. If you keep one foot in-

Because it's entertaining. Yeah, if you keep one foot in exploitation in some way in genre, if you keep your foundation in genre, then you keep your foundation in genre, then you can do whatever you want. Like my favorite filmmaker is Stanley Kubrick. I love Kubrick movies. Okay, one can pretty much look at all of his films

and say each and every one is a genre film. He's got his science fiction movie, he's got a horror movie. Even Barry Lyndon as a costume drama at the time. As a costume genre, as a genre. That was a solid bankable genre. The book is definitely a pulpy genre of its time. Well yeah, the book was serialized, wasn't it?

It was like Thackeray wrote them in like an episode. It was like a soap opera. But that was a very popular book at that time. Yeah, and so, yeah, it was all, if you can, and I knew this making my first film and I know Quentin, you were talking about it. This was a conversation we were actively having of we have to make sure that we make a movie people want to see, like a genre film. Like and I was calling them exploitation movies at the time, like,

I want to keep one foot in exploitation. And then, but at the same time, I'm like, well, I kind of also want to make like, you know, I want to elevate it as much as possible. And so when the time came for me to make my first first film, Killing Zo, you know, it was like I knew it was going to be a bank robbery because I wrote it around a location. You know, we found this while they were scouting for reservoir dogs, Lawrence Bender, or maybe you also had scouted that location, found this bank location, and Lawrence called me up,

and he's like, hey, I'm calling all the writers I know. I found this bank location, and if you can, if you have a script that takes place in a bank, we can kick together a couple hundred thousand dollars and make a movie there. It's like this complete, solid, amazing location. And I said, oh my God, Lawrence, this is your lucky day. I happen to have a script that takes place in a bank.

And then I just quickly wrote one based on the location. And as I was writing it, I was thinking, OK, I know that it's going to be a bank robbery. It's a bank. And so I know it's going to be a bank robbery. And that's my solid bankable genre that I'm going to stick with. But I knew I wanted to do something more with it

and I had just traveled through Europe and I had been telling Quentin the stories of traveling through Europe. He's like, oh, you should do a movie called Roger Takes a Trip. I still think it should have been called that. I think it's a different movie. I think it's a different, I don't think it's a.

No, you kind of made Roger Takes a Trip, just added bank robbers in it. But it's still Roger Takes a Trip. I had been in Paris, I think it's a different, I don't think it's a... No, you kind of made Roger Takes a Trip, just added bank robbers in it. I had been... But it's still Roger Takes a Trip. I had been in Paris, I had bumped into a guy that I knew from Los Angeles, who was a French guy, and he was like, oh, I'll show you the real Paris. And I went out with he and his friends,

Henri, Jean, Claude, all the characters from the movie. I went out with him and his friends, and we, you know, he drove me through Paris and next thing I know he's doing heroin and I'm like, and it started with you. No, not with me. I know we do heroin. Yeah. It was like, no heroin. Hold my arm. I did hold his arm. And like, I had never. Yeah. Yeah. I had never seen anything like that. Like he tied his arm off. He's like, hold my arm. He was the tying on Roger was. Roger, hold my arm while I shoot up. Jeez.

So, he doesn't quite know that this is all gonna happen, that everything else has been a preamble to this. Yeah, suddenly that happens and then- He just needed a heroin partner. Yeah, his friends are like, oh, doing it in the nose doesn't even affect me anymore. You know, things like that. And I'm like writing these lines down like, this is great shit. And so I get back and I tell Quentin like about this whole story and about these guys and going you know driving around The Champs-Elysees and this is where the fags sell themselves Now we go into the into the nightclub down below no you do more heroin

I'm like what about the cops aren't the police gonna say anything? It's safer here than on the you know, you're like you can do heroin anywhere in Paris And it was like no I work at Lamont like all of it was like basically everything in that movie I you know was stuff that I'd actually seen and so when the time came to make it as a bank robbery film I just you know, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, well, it's a bank robbery movie, but it's gonna be about these guys. And it just became a movie about a guy going someplace and everything that he thought he knew is wrong.

You know, like, you think, you know, you haven't seen your friend in a while, you go see him. Okay, it's all about that kind of friendship and misconception that he's downstairs at the bank. Okay, it's all about that that kind of friendship and Misconception that he's downstairs to the bank Johnny Gringlod. The bad guy is upstairs. The chaos is going on upstairs He has no idea what's going on upstairs. And so this kind of just Became what the movie was about and so I just quickly wrote the script and then You know, we ended up not even using that location to shoot the movie in. It came together later and I ended up shooting in downtown LA instead.

But it was. The seed was planted. The seed was planted. So the idea was, okay, I'm gonna make a French film out of it. Because I'm like in LA, I'm making a film. What can I do that would be different? Like that would make this more than just a bank robbery

movie and because of the experience I had just had, I was like, well, I'm going to make a French film. Okay, I had no business making a French movie. I didn't even really speak French. I just thought it would be kind of cool. I like, you know, a cool French girl and like greasy, dirty French guys, French criminals. And I always loved, you know, Alain Delon and the samurai, you know, the way he wears a suit

and the way he carries a gun and the way he walks around. I just like, I, you know, just adored all of that. And so it was like, well, let's put all of that kind of space that's in my brain into the movie. And then the movies tend to take on a life of their own. They tend to be like children, you know, it starts off as a concept, as a conception, it has a conception, and then it has an infancy,

and then you're raising that child to become the movie. And along the way, you're really just kind of protecting it and trying to allow it to grow into what it's gonna grow into without forcing it to become something that it's not. And it's a little bit of a balance. You have to be a good parent, which means you have to give it a little bit of freedom to grow into something that you don't know what it's gonna be

But at the same time you have to be willing to you know be strong with it as well. That's a very underappreciated movie It's a fucking great. I think I'm I think I'm really good at making underappreciated movies I think I've had I've built a career with an underappreciated Those are the classics that you would look for in a video store Yeah, you look for the movies that were really good that nobody knew about dog day afternoons not in but I get you killing so My favorite moment in the movie. Well, I like it when the guy gets burned alive All right, you know the hamburger scene that was yeah, yeah I remember they were trying to talk you to cut out of they go. No, no, you can't cut that out. I'm taking my name off.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, Quentin did that. Actually. Quentin was a great gorilla to have on my side at that time. But, uh, why would they tell you to cut that out? Well, everyone is afraid. It's a too rough. It's too rough. Everyone's afraid. Everyone operates out of fear. Taking my name off. The only people that don't operate out of fear, I think is the director and the actors. Those are the ones who, if everything's working right, you're fearless. It's always executives that fuck everything up.

But it's the scene. My favorite scene is the scene with Hugh Ung Lahn when he walks into the close-up. Oh yeah. And he's just like, wait a minute. He's remembering what he heard and he realizes... Okay, so that's a good example of... because the movie was shot for... Explain the scene better. The scene was shot for... Explain the scene better.

I will. The movie was shot for very little money. We had no money to make it. So I had to shoot the entire upstairs first and then the downstairs. Because it's like doing a company move. But I had kept, I knew that, you know, when writing, and this was sort of a kind of a rule that we had was, I mean, one, make a genre movie. Two- Explain the scene! I'm going to! I said explain the scene!

Don't tell me what you filmed about at that moment. You missed the exit! The scene was a replacement for another scene that was in the movie that was too expensive to shoot. What does that have to do with what I like? What I replaced it with, and I had to fight for it, was a single shot. Because originally he goes downstairs and he sees a bunch of guys coming in through the sewer. So he starts machine gunning people in the sewer.

Because there was like a little sewer man hole in the bottom of the bank. I was like, oh let's use that. And so I had this whole thing and the bond company showed up and you're like, you're behind schedule and you've got to like, you know, we're going to, you've got to cut pages. And I couldn't cut anything and I'm shooting upstairs, downstairs stuff. And so it's like, I had to have something

cause he leaves the scene and then comes back angry. And so I knew I, I knew I needed to have something. And originally I had this whole scene where the cops are coming in and then comes back angry. And so I knew I needed to have something, and originally I had this whole scene where the cops are coming in and he reacts to that. And so I said, well, okay, I just need one shot, because it's all I had time to do because it's a fucking bond company. And so I set up, which were actually really cool to me. They were actually, Film Finances was great.

I just set up a single camera. I asked for kind of a Kubrickian lens, nice wide like maybe a 14 millimeter lens and I just had John Hugh walk up into a close-up and I just had him do I said just walk into a close-up and just start looking around and just start seeing things coming out of the walls and no no is that the shot you're talking about he does like a little magic trick beforehand like no that's not the one you're talking about? He does like a little magic trick beforehand, like, that's not the one you're talking about? No, that's the great shot. That's a great shot. No, the scene I'm talking about is, but that's why I wanted you to explain it because I hadn't seen it in a long time, but it was, is that the shot? That's the shot. That's the shot I'm talking about. Look, he's looking into the walls. He's looking around. But I thought the whole idea about it is the idea that... I added those lines of dialogue in. No, but I thought the whole idea is he puts it all together. He realizes there's something going on, that the cops are doing this, or Eric Stoltz is dirty with him. And it all hits him.

He's ready to do something else and he walks into a close up and it all hits him. But now we the audience know what's going on. Yeah. And then he's just like, well, it just shows that sometimes if you can't do what you want to do, what you come up with is better. And this was an example of it rained that day and I had to use the rain. That's sort of the example. I know, but the frustrating part for me about what you're talking about is like, I don't

care how the sausage was made, I like the sausage. I wanted you to talk about the sausage, not the factory. You don't want to know what's in that sausage. Yeah, I wanted to hear about the Italian sweetness. Well, it was very sweet, but it started off sour. It started off sour because I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And so I just came up with something that was, well, he puts it together in his head. I still think that sequence is exhilarating because it all boils down to an actor's face.

Well, I had Tom Savini on the set cuz and I couldn't afford Tom Savini, but I Found his number and before I shot and I called him up and in Pittsburgh And I said Tom Sweeney's a makeup effects artist who did dawn of the dead He did all the effects for dawn of the dead like and not to mention all the great slides Friday the 13th all the slasher movies Like he's the superstar of practical makeup effects of horror films of that era. He was in Vietnam and saw some shit. And every time I'm talking to him about stuff like, he's like, oh yeah, well, you know, if you're bleeding from back here, there's only two small veins and blah, blah, because

when your head gets knocked off, like he's seen all this stuff. And so this is his way of processing it. But Tom came in and I couldn't afford him. I called him up on the phone. I was like, hey, can you think I'm a young filmmaker? I'm, you know, I'm your biggest fan. I like makeup effects, blah blah blah. Okay, he flew himself out. We had no money to pay him. I think we paid him like some tiny amount. He flew himself to LA, put himself up,

worked on the film and he made that burn makeup on that burned guard in the vault out of Vaseline paint and tissue paper. And I watched him make, it was the most unbelievable thing how he made blisters and burn effects. And it was like watching one of the great artists work. Tom is incredible guy. He. Tom is an incredible guy. He's an incredible, incredible guy.

Where you were asking earlier on about, whoa, you're working at a video store. Did you ever think, when did you start thinking about making your own stuff? Well, I was thinking about making my own stuff for like a long, long, long time, but these guys were actually doing it. But there is a truth while I thought about it,

like for a long, long time, and always figured I would do that eventually. I did fall asleep for a few years. You know, because working at that store, I just got caught up in the little life there. And it's interesting because, you know, you spent your 20s going to comedy clubs and building a career. So I'm spending my 20s there. And well, it's one of those things where it's like, well, this isn't my dream. This isn't what I wanted to do, working at a video store for years. I wanted to actually make movies. It's not my dream, what I'm doing.

But it's dream-adjacent. It's close to my dream. It's close to my dream. I get to watch movies all fucking day. I get to talk about movies all fucking day. I don't have to work at a pizza parlor. I don't have to, I'm not delivering pizzas. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not busting ass as a bartender. I'm not busting ass doing menial jobs. I mean, this is the kind of job I, uh, that, you know, I do if I, I'd go to the store if I wasn't paid to go to the store. Yeah. So it's like, you know, but, but for a couple of years it did put me to sleep It did kind of put me to sleep it put my ambitions to sleep a little bit because I was happy enough Yeah, I was happy and just one of these days I'll

Rub you didn't have the fire. I didn't have the fire and When I got the fire what I eventually got the fire back again, and it was a life-changing day, it was a life-changing day. We had a buddy of ours named Steve-O. We had different living arrangements, and at one point in time, me and Steve-O were living in the same house together, towards the back of the store. The dude house yeah it was where everyone would hang out and but now steve was older than the rest of us so if like he was about like almost five years older than us but you he didn't seem like it he was a young guy

like five years younger mentally or emotionally yeah Yeah, yeah. And, um, but... So he hits 30, and he starts changing. He starts changing, like, drastically. I mean, he was like one of the funniest guys I ever knew, and he was this really, really funny stoner dude, and really cool. And all of a sudden, he's, like like angry about things. And now he's not quite as funny, and now he's got this issue.

And so we're roommates, and there's this one night that he's kind of like all, he's kind of disgusted with his life. And he starts ranting. And he's describing a situation that was very common if you were a kid growing up without a degree or anything in the 80s, especially in California, where it's like, you can't get any really good jobs, but you can work at a liquorice pizza. And if you're an okay employee,

you could work at liquorice pizza for a couple of years, and maybe you could even become assistant manager or a manager and maybe they send you to another store and Maybe you work there for three years and that's really great But then you know all of a sudden District manager doesn't like you you run a file of somebody Hire up in corporate and all of a sudden next thing you know, you're fired and you're on the street again. It's management Yeah, okay. And so now you've just spent three years at Licorice Pizza. Now you could get a job at TRW or some places like a real job job, or, well, those are kind of hard

to get, but you can work at Warehouse Records and Tapes tomorrow because you just had three years at Licorice Pizza. Same thing with Wild West Closier, same thing with Miller's Outpost, same thing with any of these kind of stores. Next thing you know, you're 28 and the only jobs you've ever had are minimum wage jobs behind a counter that were designed for kids to pay for their gas. And you've spent your entire 20s doing that. And then you start getting bitter. And you start getting bitter. And you start getting bitter. But he was not just bitter about the job aspect of it.

But I knew he was. Oh my god, he's telling me the truth. I'm learning something here. Because he goes, you know, Quentin, you think that we're this really great team. We're this really great crew. Well, we are. I mean, this know that time of year

20s were like you your group of friends or your family you know and like well we are. Quentin at 20 I worked at South Bay Cinemas and I hung out with a bunch of guys just like you and some girls there too. There was a bunch of guys just like you. And some girls there too. But it was a bunch of guys just like you. And then I stopped working at South Bay Cinema. Then I worked at Miller's Outpost. I hung out with a bunch of guys just like you. And we did everything just like we do.

We went to movies together. We went out and we dated amongst the girls there. Everything. Then I worked at Leisure Pizza for four years with a bunch of guys just like you. I wasted my life hanging out with a bunch of guys just like you. And they all go away at a certain point. And I realized this guy's kind of telling the truth. He's showing me a truth about him.

This is coming from somewhere. And then all of a sudden, he still hung around us. He still liked us. But then he started making it a point to touch base with some of his high school friends that were still around. So he's not just hanging out with guys four years younger or five years younger than him. Anyway, I'm turning 25 around this time. So I'm having my own little, okay, well, what have I done with my life so far? So far, fucking nothing. So I'm having my own little anxiety hitting 25, but I'm seeing what it's like five years from now. Yeah.

When you turn 30. Yeah, window to the future when you're in 30 and you're in this situation and And there was like one night That I had what I used to call I would do it every once in a long time. Thank thankfully I would have a Quentin to test fest Where I'd stay up all night long and rather than give myself excuses. I Would look at everything that I'm fucking up in my life or everything I'm not doing or whatever and just not give myself any fucking excuses out,

just like nail it. And I would spend like all night laying out everything I'm doing that's wrong and then I would spend the last two hours figuring out how I can change it. And as opposed to just doing it and then going to get some sleep and then you forget about it and fall back into your routine, I decided to change my life.

I was like, look, the problem is that I'm living in the South Bay and even though I drive to Los Angeles, I got to not worry about this job anymore. I gotta just move to Hollywood. I gotta get involved there. I gotta meet other people that are in the business. And if I have to work manpower jobs, where you just work like four days at this place

and four days at that place, well then that's fine. And by the way, I shouldn't be making money until I'm making money doing what I wanna do. And I thought that was ever a danger. All right, but then the next thing I knew, I moved out of the South Bay. And then I couldn't move into Hollywood. I couldn't afford Hollywood, but I could afford Koreatown.

And that was close enough. And literally the minute I kind of moved out there, I met a guy who wrote Low budget horror movies and then through him I met other guys that wrote low budget horror movies and this guy who directs a few low budget or in this guy who produces a couple and well But yeah, you meet one person and that introduces you to three other people now all of a sudden I actually knew people who were actually making movies and the thing about it was it was like Also, well if these guys can do what I can do

Because they weren't too special right? Yeah, you know, that's the weird realization that you end up having Yeah And and then literally it wasn't like everything changed but like within a year and a half From moving out of the South Bay and moving into the Hollywood area, within a year and a half, I was finally able to make a living as a writer. Getting like $7,000 for this rewrite on this script over here, $4,000 for this polish over here, another $10,000 for this rewrite over here.

Well, shit, I would make $10,000 a year through all my 20s before that point. So if I can make 15,000 from writing, oh my God, that was the greatest thing in the world. Wow, but it just takes being around people that are actually doing it so you realize it's possible. Well, it's the realizing it's possible, but it's also a situation where it's like, as

opposed to talking to your buddies about comedy in Minnesota, your buddies who like comedy, no, you're at the comedy store and you're dealing with comedians every fucking night. And you're in the place where the shit happens, and you're hearing how the laughs work. But also, you know what's going on. Oh, Caroline's Comedy Hour is doing the tryouts for this. And, you know, Chuckles is doing this thing or that thing. Oh, and there's this sitcom going on.

There's the funny neighbor guy. Yeah. At any moment... You're plugged in. At any moment, there's a circle of people rising in any industry. Yes. And it's just a matter of finding those people and those people will all gravitate towards the same things. Yeah. They have the thing where it's sort of like you know like hey Benny we we have a spot for you that could be really you know I can't do it

but my friend Joe could do it can you you, how about giving Joe a chance? Yeah. Okay, well, will you back Joe up? Yeah, I'll back Joe up. Okay, yeah, well, let's call your friend Joe. Can he be down here at nine? Yeah, he can be down here at nine. Well, that's how you get a fucking gig.

This is exactly what we tried to do when we built the mothership here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What we done. We decided when we left LA, like we need a place where comics have a hub. And when we were all in Austin, we all just moved left LA like we need a place where comics have a hub and when we're all in Austin We all just moved to Austin because of pandemic. Yeah, and all of a sudden we were allowed to perform indoors

It was crazy in November of 2020 We were doing shows indoors and you know, you couldn't go on Twitter because they would call you a big super spreader monster, but everybody started moving here by the you know, by the time 2020 rolls around there's like Everybody started moving here by the you know by the time 2020 rolls around there's like 15 16 world-class Comedians that didn't used to live in Austin that are here now, and we're like let's let's build a club Yeah, so we bought the Ritz theater Where you know some of your movies are played? crazy and When we put it together though the whole idea was like have a place where people can come we have two nights of open mic

nights Monday and Sunday and Monday night. So there's always a chance to get on stage. There's always a guy there's a real talent. Adam Egott is a real talent coordinator. He's really going to watch you. He's really going to give you advice and you're around the best comics in the world all the time and everybody knows it's possible and everybody treats you the way you would want to be treated if you were starting So you're just one of us you just started, but you're not we're not better than you We're not we're not there's nothing special about us. We're just telling you we we started walking and now we're 15 miles in You're 15 feet in just keep walking okay?

Okay, but let me ask you a question let me ask you a question because it you know When I watch some of the things on the comedy stern that because you know I'm I really love going to the comedy yeah you know and and they treat me really great there it was really cool all right um but you know it the mythology of the place is you go down there on open mic nine if you have something to offer yeah you know then you you know you work your way up and then you're the doorman and then you know you work your way up and then you're the doorman and then, you know, you work your way up. But it seems like, that was then, that was a long time ago. Now it seems like people are almost paying 10 years,

all right, or eight years before they actually are getting up and getting paid. Not necessarily. Like Tony Hinchcliffe started at the Comedy Store. He started as a doorman, you know, and he worked his way up to selling out Madison Square Garden two nights in a row I mean it is possible to still be a doorman. I met Tony when he was I'm figuring that that's a spot, but it seems like but if you have to wait five years Well, you don't get good for ten years. Yeah. Okay. It takes forever Comedy is like making a mountain out of layers of paint

You have to fail. Yeah, you have to have the opportunities to fail There's also no one long though how to do it. Yeah, like writing a film like you you know, you have a protagonist You have the antagonist you have a plot you have a you have a bunch of stuff that you can kind of create and say Would you really but would you really say that it takes 10 years to be a solid comedian? It takes 10 years to be a real headliner. Like a guy who can do a real... Well, a headliner, that's a little different. That's a little different.

Well, that's when you're a real comic. Yeah, okay. When you can do an hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do an hour and then you can write another hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you kind of know who you are. Because it takes years to build that...

Well, also to be a headliner, you actually have to be enough of a name of a draw to actually draw an audience. Yes, yes. And you have to, usually you go on the road with a headliner and then the people get to see you. Oh I remember he was here when Tom Segura was in town. That guy's really good. We saw him then and he did 15 minutes and now he's going to do an hour.

This should be great. And it's sort of that kind of a deal. But it's the same sort of situation where most people don't like if you're in Pittsburgh. You don't know what to do You know you go up. There's a couple open mic nights everybody sucks And there's no inspiration for comedy and fucking pizza parlor It doesn't work and you go well, I guess this is not for me, right It's good on the weekends because they'll fly in you you know, Greg Fitzsimmons, some headliner, and you'll get to see a real comic for a weekend.

So you get a little bit of an education from that. And maybe if you're lucky, the club owner will let you open for him or do 10 minutes on that show. And you kind of like get a feel what it's like to perform in front of a real audience that's there to see a real comic. But you gotta be around,

like comedy doesn't exist in a vacuum. There's no great comedian that lives in some small town by himself. Like you could find some great blues artist. Or a great novelist. Yes, novelist is probably the best one because you kind of live in your own head. But you have to be around the other people

that are doing it. Which is exactly why Quentin moved to Hollywood. Yeah, exactly. You gotta wait for these losers. You had to do it it but you really do have to do wait I recall living in Hollywood as well I'm a guy freaking Franklin yes across from Plummer Park your bitter friend gave you a valuable little piece of information yeah no very much you need those you need those little moments

I knew I was hearing the truth mmm and I knew I was hearing a coming attraction yeah because I was already feeling it at 25, right? That's right. Have I thrown my topsoil years away? Right, right the topsoil exactly and when it doesn't come back it doesn't you never get to be 21 again Let's hit reset. Yeah. Yeah, you get one weird March through this life And if you don't if you have a way till a 23 but from 24 on you need to be thinking about what you're doing the rest of your life yeah get it going yeah get it going yeah that what is this I think these conversations are so

important for young people to hear because there's a lot of people out there that do have ideas and sometimes they have a little bit of a fire and then maybe they have a job that's kind of cool like yours was and they they get sedated almost the worst thing that can happen is getting comfortable, which I think is what you were talking about. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, it all worked out, okay? It all worked out really, really good.

And the thing about it was, you know, I did get comfortable, but I got comfortable in a cool place. And ultimately, I did have the energy and the wherewithal to ultimately get dissatisfied with it and want more. The alternative would have been me working at a department store for those four years. Yes, right, right, right. Where there's nothing. And then I would have been really miserable.

Right, right, right. Here, I'm able to, I mean, in this instance, I'm still involved with, I mean, the sedative part was the idea that it was close enough to what I want Right, right, right, right. It was close enough. I could get I could do this There's guys like that the comedy store There's a friend of mine at the comic store that was he was a bartender in the back bar and he wanted to be a comic Yeah, but he was there. It was like five years after I met him on my hey, man You got to quit this fucking job because you're here with all the greatest comics

in the world, but you're not going on stage. Because you're making good money. And that's the velvet curtain, you know, that's pulled over your eyes. I worked on Lords of Dogtown, the movie about Zephyr surfboards and skateboarding and polyurethane wheels and surfing. And I'm not like a surfer or anything,

but my entry point into that movie was Zephyr Surfboards was exactly like Video Archives. And I imagine that this is like this in a lot of places where, you know, you have a shop, they make skate, they do skateboards and they've got a Shaper guy there, you know, Skip Englum, who's a surfboardboard shaper and he was sort of like Lance the guy who owned video archives and he started a shop and he's selling to all the kids locally and

all the kids who like love surfing you know like Stacey Peralta or Tony Alva or guys like that they would just go hang out there just like we would go hang out at the video store and so I looked at that and I was like okay I don't really know anything about these guys other than growing up in the beach community, but my real entry point was, I understand gravitating towards what you love and wanting to be close to it.

And that if a video store is the closest thing to Hollywood in your town, that's where you go. Or if it's not a movie theater and so. Well, you know was it was funny because When I first started when I started at the video star i'd like it was great because You know like I said, I got to hang out in this place that I've Enjoyed and i'm surrounded by movies and talking about access to all those titles

But then also there was also the situation of, you know, I became like a little film critic in that town. You know, it was like I was like the story was my little village voice and I was the Andrew Serra Serra. I was the critic and people would come in and at a certain point like, oh, Quentin, what should I get? You know, and the thing is, I'm not just like holding court on my own personal taste. Pretty soon they got a really good idea about my taste.

But the thing is, I'm usually gearing it towards the people. I'm not going to get some housewife to watch some Gonzo movie that I, Gonzo violent movie that I really like. I'm gaming, I get to know her. You have to tailor it. And so I'm putting something in her hand that I think she's gonna appreciate it. I kind of know what kind of comedy she likes I know who she likes stuff like that and so I'm like, you know really kind of You know

gearing it in a certain in a certain way and that's that that felt That felt really good. Yeah, it felt like I said I felt like a film critic. Mmm., you know, but one of the things that I forgot was gonna I was gonna go somewhere with that I forgot a lot of my train of thought But one of the things that ended up happening and if I I hope I didn't say it last time I was here That ended up happening is we became Really famous in the neighborhood. We were the video guys. And our store was a little different than most of the businesses that were in Manhattan Beach.

And so everyone kind of knew us. We were the video guys. So in a strange way, it was a precursor to what it would be like to be famous with the whole world kind of knows about you like that. In Manhattan Beach, I'm like walking down the street and people are like, hey, Quentin, hey, Quentin, how you doing, how you doing?

I'm like, I'm at the working at the store, I'm walking to the Jack in the Box, they get a Coke and come back. And then, but we'd walk into the man's movie theater. That was by the theater. And me and two of the guys would walk in to go see a movie. And we'd walk down the aisle, and we'd hear, hey, those are the VDR guys, guys.

Those are the VDR guys, guys. Oh, yeah. I was in San Francisco once, and the guys from Red Cross, the punk band, they were customers of ours. I was like, oh, they're doing a signing at this local record shop. I'll just go show up I'll just show up there on hate Ashbury and I walk in and immediately the McDonald brother guys were like hey It's the video store guy

Come back behind with us. I don't think they talk like that It's good to get that slow drip get a little bit of a taste of it before you actually get famous. Just get a feel of what it's like. It still doesn't give you the full, it's like, you know, oh, I'm just going to smoke a little weed compared to I'm going to mainline heroin. Oddly enough, the thing that it did was it made me feel part of a community, which I had never felt with before.

I actually felt part of the Manhattan Beach community. I felt part of the Manhattan Beach community. I was part of the Manhattan Beach community. You know, the people knew me there. And I was an upstanding member inside of that community. Yeah. Yeah. The fame thing is no one can teach you how to do that. There's someone, it needs to be like a group of people to get together with people that are about to get famous and say, hey listen, we're famous already. Let me tell you how fucking weird this is. I don't know if you're prepared for this. When we were first trying to make True Romance, you

know, Quentin had this amazing screenplay and it was like we were gonna try to do it Cone Brothers style. We had just seen Blood Simple and we were like, okay, I'm going to produce, Quentin's going to direct, we're going to go out and make this. Our first thought was, okay, we've got this database of doctors and lawyers and housewives in Manhattan Beach. We're going to go to the video store. You know, we'd ended up not doing that. You were going to ask them for money? Well, we never had the balls were gonna ask them for money. We never had the balls to ask anybody for money. We talked about it.

We strategized about it a lot, but we never actually... I drew up full partnership papers before that whole dream failed, of doing it that way. Yeah, nobody knows what it's like to actually be successful until you are but in the beginning Did you guys feel like pretenders? Did you feel fake? Did you have imposter syndrome? I didn't have imposter syndrome because I did a movie and I was really happy with the film But the thing is what I felt like I'll tell you exactly how I felt. I didn't feel my imposter syndrome Well, I guess a little bit there is that all that like waiting for somebody to tap you on the show Yeah, you do any get out of here right uh who would let that guy in right the fuck out

what i had was i felt like i was a a reporter deep undercover all right on the opposite side of the line right this isn't really me i'm like those those people over there. But I'm deep undercover. I can give you reports from the front of what it's like here on the battle line. Right. Well maybe that was a good thing though. It was a really cool thing. It was neat. Because I think that's one of the things you did with your films is you did shit that was

very risky. Like we're talking about executives and all these different management people that are gonna come in and fuck with your thing and don't do that and cut that out. But you had a sensibility, not of a person in management, but of a person that I know what I'd like. I know what I like.

And I think I can think differently than these people do. Oh, no, no, I would not. One of the things we talked about, we had a little theory about it, what was that gave us a bit of a superpower when we were first brought into what once we established ourselves, the people knew we read our scripts or you knew we were we had something to offer. We would walk into rooms and we realized that And look, I'm not here to make fun of Hollywood executives some of those guys know like look You don't know how bad some of these movies these scripts are they actually oftentimes they actually make them better

Yeah, they're really really terrible. All right, they some of the when they go through the sausage factory oftentimes they get better Believe it or not, but the thing is though you'd walk in there and You don't become This super successful executive by being doubling down on your own opinions You kind of want to get the temperature and get a consensus going on. You're not the Maverick. That's not how people establish themselves as executives.

The D-Girl doesn't become the head of the development process by being the punk rock person who's shooting for the plimsolls. They're looking for a rolling stone. Film people, film geeks and film buffs, the one thing they have is their opinion. And they have spent years defining their opinion. And they almost have nothing to show for their dedication to cinema

other than their highly evolved opinion. So you put them in a room and say, well, what would you do? Well, it's about time you asked me. And then all of a sudden you take the strong point of view. And the room, the term in Hollywood is he who has the strongest point of view in the view, he who has the strongest point of view in the room wins. And executives don't have the strongest point of view, you know, but the maverick artist who only can hear the sound of his own voice, he definitely has the strongest point of view.

But it's refreshing to them yes you know invariably they hire you because you scare them a little you're a little scary and they like that they want it they want to be like a little thrilled by that right but then you know like a girlfriend or something they want to change you they're gonna make you normal right and then and then it falls on you to just stay true to that initial guy who was in the room. I had a really interesting situation where I had a guy who was an executive who actually directed a movie.

And he was talking and they're like, well, I've seen these jokers out there and you know, what they do isn't so special. I think I could do it. And so he, you know, so he finds a book and then they adapt it and now he's doing the movie. And he's getting through it, everything's working fine, he's getting through it. And then he realizes the difference

between himself and a director because he's dealing with another director about something. He's an executive. So he's dealing with another director about another movie. And he asks him a very important question about his movie. And the way he answers it, he realized the difference between him and that director. And he goes, I realized, oh.

See, he's a real director because he sees the movie. He sees the movie in his head. The question I asked, he went into his head and he saw it. He saw it. And he could actually answer it. Oh, the flower pot is green. Because he sees the entire picture. Yeah. I don't see it.

I'm just doing my best. I see it written, all right, but I don't see the movie in my head. I'm just doing my best with the written material. He's the Comedy Central executive that thinks they could be a comedian. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right on. And then they get on stage and they eat shit.

Like, oh, God. What you were saying is exactly what happened to Chappelle. Oh. Chappelle shit. Yeah, like they loved him He's this wild dude. And then all sudden this is too wild. This is becoming really Successful we can change you they want to stop saying the n-word They want to stop a bunch of different things on the show and we'll give you all this money We really if you roll over they gave him literally the devil's deal We're gonna give you 50 million dollars and

this is what you're gonna get and he's like, no, I quit. I quit everything and I'm gonna go to Africa. I'm gonna hang out in Africa for a while and I'm gonna quit stand up for ten years and come back and still be the best. That is so the right move. Oh my God. Well look, he's a legend now, but that's really him. If you're around him, he's an artist in like the truest sense of the world, you know When I was young one of my first jobs was actually given to me by one of our customers this guy John Langley who did that? Show cops and so like he was you know getting his power turned off and stuff like, you know

Constantly and yeah He was struggling to get by and he would do these little things with Geraldo Rivera that Quentin and I would work on his PAs every now and then and One green exercise video we worked on the dolphin green exercise video together Yeah, we were picking up dog shit in Venice Beach with our hands so that Dolph could do aerobics on that little No areas and so, you know, I'm like the first, I'm a PA working for him, a driver,

I'm running around town, my car is like, the transmission is going out, I'm trying to figure out what am I gonna do, this is not what I wanna do, I don't wanna work on cops, but like I need the job. And so I go in and I meet with John, and he's been a customer of ours, and he's fatherly like to me and fatherly like to me yeah and

I go into his office and I sit down and cops has just started and it started because of a writers guild strike and you know there was a writers guild strike and so Fox was like well that show has no writers and so they ordered his thing and he went from nothing to like I'm buying yachts yeah I'm collecting vineyards I remember when he first came up with the idea with his partner Malcolm Barber. Yeah. All right. So he comes in and he's like, hey, we've got a really good idea for a show. So he's he's he's he's describing cops before cops has ever been made. Yeah, and and his first idea was it wasn't called cops. It was called the real Miami Vice.

Because it wasn't called cops, it was called the real Miami Vice. The problem was it doesn't scale out to the whole country like cops do. He um... Well, they defined it. They refined it. I asked him, I said, John, like, you've worked in this business a long time. He was an AD for a long time. What kind of advice can you give to a guy like me who's trying to work my way up? He's like, well, what do you want to do ultimately? I said, well, I want to direct films. Well, then be a director. Don't work

your way up the ladder. Don't try to be a grip, work your way in. Just be a director. And I heard that. And he's like, start at the top. It's the best way to go. Just start at the top and, uh, you know, just tell people you're a director, put yourself in that. Otherwise people will just pigeonhole you. They'll just say, that's who he is. He's a grip or he's a PA or he's, you'll, you'll have to work your way up. Just tell people who you are. So I thought about it and I was like, okay, I quit. He's like, like okay I quit what I said I quit I'm a director and I left I walked out I mean I gave him notice and and I walked out and he sat there and he later told me years later told me man I thought

that was the most audacious, ballsy thing. I gave you advice and you took it. Right away! And okay, never mind the fact that it took me years of just telling people I'm a director. I directed Super 8 movies. I was not a director. I was a poser. I was faking it until I made it.

But I told people what I was and what I was doing and eventually it stuck eventually enough people hear it and all those people who you end up going into a room and Pitching your idea and they say no eventually they see you at Cannes running around, you know trying to do foreign sales They're like, hey, maybe that kid is a director That was all it was just believing in yourself It's funny that guy when no one else believes what you believe the guy who's talking about John Langley He created cops it was he was a really good customer and his wife Maggie was really lovely she came she Morgan and all of his kids and

I heard the story came back to me later that You know When I got the deal to make reservoir dogs, you know, just little by little through the Manhattan Beach community They started you know hearing. Oh, hey Quentin's making his movie. Yeah, Quentin got his movie off the ground He's actually making his movie. He's not at the video store anymore. He's actually making a movie good for him and who knows what's gonna happen to it, but it's happening and And I think they were having a little dinner party at their house

and then Maggie mentions to John about what happened. Really? That's actually happening? It's actually happening? Yeah, no, they've got production offices and everything. They're making the movie and he goes, everybody, raise your glass. It's a Quentin. He did it. Good for Quentin. Raise your glass. I'm getting teentin. He did it. Good for Quentin. That's awesome. Raise your glass. I'm getting teary-eyed just even thinking about it. You know, I just have to say John Langley,

you know, cause I had some shit happen to me in my life. I spent some time in jail. I kind of screwed up my life, but when everything went down, when everyone in Hollywood dropped me like a hot rock, John Langley was there. Our customer John Langley, because we lost everything, he loaned me some money, he gave me my first job when I got out of jail, writing something for very little money, but he wanted

me back in the saddle. I love the things you wrote from jail. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Thank you. They were really good. It was really interesting. It was like this like super intelligent writer who's in jail. You know it's a different different sort of perspective. Roger's working on a book about his jail experiences that is fantastic.

I kept a really detailed super detailed journal about like everything that's going on around me. And, you know, it became a really, I mean, that was an, it was a very intense experience being placed into a room, having the doors closed and you're just left with yourself and everything, all your things, which define you get stripped away. Everything gets kind of dropped and you lose who you are and you're just left with your remorse and regret for why you're there. And you have a lot of time to think about things. But having said that, as a writer, there was a concrete bench that I could sit on.

I had golf pencils. I could buy sheets of paper. And I've never in my life been more productive. I've never wanted to write more than when everything was taken away. And I've never felt more about the world. And I've never, yeah, I've, it was a very monastic, I was telling Quentin at one point, it was kind of monastic-like, you know, you're, you're in a, you're in a secular kind of, you're in a cell, you're in a cell and you're, you're with a bunch of god dudes and you're writing, you know, it's like you're, I became a scribe. I started, I mean, I was a scribe beforehand, but I really, really,

it became my escape, being able to write, being able to fall into things and to be able to travel into another world. And then also people find out you're a writer and they're like, hey man, would you write my, yo essay, would you write my girlfriend? Yo, I want to write her a love letter, I need your help. So I wrote like a ton of love letters.

That's actually good practice for dialogue. Oh, yeah. No, totally totally. No, actually I heard some Amazing dialogue you're writing your Robin Hood script. All right in there. So that's your way to get out of The cell is to write his Robin Hood script I you know, I well there's a book cart and some you know every now and then you go through the book cart and mostly it's like Tom Clancy novels. They love Tom Clancy and stuff like that and, uh, Clive Barker novels and things like that. But lo and behold, I found this old penguin paperback of, you know, an old, old version of Robin Hood written by E. Charles Vivian.

And I'm like, Oh man, this is going to be great. And I start reading it and it's like, they get into evil hold,'m like, oh man, this is going to be great. And I start reading it, and it's like they get into evil hold, which is like this castle where, you know, Marion's father is being kept and nobody knows it. And he's there and he's not away at Crusades. He's in this prison and Robin Hood goes into the prison. And in the moment when he's in the prison, how he sees the other prison, the wretches that he has to leave behind because they're too wretched to even come out. Like how bad the prison is and what he's seeing inside and his observations. I was shaking after reading it. I'm shaking thinking about, I mean, the entire experience now, but you

know, it was such a vivid depiction. I'm like, well, I'm adapting this because I'm feeling it right now. I'm feeling like what it's like. I'm feeling what it's like to have the boot on your neck. I mean, rightfully so, but nevertheless. And so I started writing my version of Robin Hood, and on pencil and paper, and as I'm writing it, I was crying as I wrote it. I was looking at the pages the other day, and there's like teardrops all over it.

Like on every page, it's like, holy crap. It's like, when you're writing like that and you're feeling that much, it's not a bad thing to cry when you're writing. It's like, thank God, I'm feeling. Like I'm feeling something and it's traveling into the page. And also, because I had been a working writer in Hollywood for a long time, just by speed,

I had fallen into the very bad habit of composing at my computer, at my laptop. Like one of those assholes who goes to Starbucks. And I was that guy. And so I'm sitting and I had kind of become used to that. Well, writing by hand in, well, incarcerated, it reconnected me with like pen to paper or pencil to paper. And it reminded me that not only like when you write something down you have a different relationship with the word. I consider the pen is the antenna to God. It is the antenna to God and also when you type it into the computer that's a process of rewriting. Yeah. And so you're

losing an entire section and so it reconnected me with that. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay well tell me explain this more to me, because this is fascinating to me, because I've heard many people say this about comedy, that they have to write on paper. I don't. I write on a laptop. I've always written on a laptop. For me, it's, what I like about writing, even writing on paper, is that it takes more time to write the word appreciate than it does to think about what it means to appreciate

something. Like the word appreciate, you know what it is instantly, oh he appreciates this, but to write appreciate, it takes longer so there's more thinking. And in more thinking, I feel like when you have more thinking, there's more little different ways you might alternately branch off with your ideas. I don't think I... That is not false. Not that I've ever written an hour long stand-up comedy show, all right, but I would think that your writing is different than my kind of writer.

Sure. I would think as far as writing stuff down, it's like notes and ideas and funny word phrases or this and that and the other, but then you're working it out. You're saying it, you're saying it, you're saying it, you're saying it, and then you get your story right. And maybe you say it into a recorder, maybe you do this or you do that, but you know, probably it doesn't even look right when you type it up on a thing, it doesn't look right.

It's the way you tell the story. What I was gonna get to is that when I type, I can type quicker than I can write by hand. And the problem with comedy is it comes quick and slippery. And also you can edit with the... No, that makes a tremendous amount of sense. I mean, we're writing stuff that has to hold up on the page. Right.

That has to hold up as writing. I'll write a 1,500 word essay and I'll use one line. Like there's one thing in there that might be a bit, but I'll write all this other shit on transportation. It's like strip mining. You just pull all that dirt out and just process it. That's exactly what it's like. I've tried to write.

So you open up your mind about, okay, just let loose on public transportation. Yes, yes. And I'm not even trying to be funny. I'm just trying to write. And then I'll find something funny in it. And then that's the starting point. Now I take that, cut it, copy it into a completely fresh

document. Now what is this? And how do I get to it? Ultimately, it's whatever works is what is the best. Is it you on either typing or whatever, is it you doing that eight page thing on transportation or is it more likely that you're just pacing around doing a running monologue on public transportation? Well, I'm sitting still, right?

That's what you mean. The thing about typing is I type good. So not great, but I don't have to look at the keys. I can type pretty quickly. And if I have a good laptop, like a ThinkPad, that has a lot of finger travel, then you really feel it. And I get into like a zone. And then it's just about like-

Yes, I know. You actually do write your notes. Yeah. And then it's just about Trump. But they don't always come out the same way. Because sometimes when you bring them out on stage, the moment lets you know this is not the way to go, it's this way.

And then all of a sudden you're like, God, how did I not see that in front of the computer? Because you weren't in that vibe of the crowd. Like it's a, you don't do it on your own. You have to do it with them. It's like the one art form that literally cannot be practiced in solitary. You have to do it.

So when I write, I write like that, the one art form that literally cannot be practiced in solitary. You have to do it. So when I write, I write like that, but I also write things down on pieces of paper. I also write, like whenever I, if I have an idea, I got to catch it. Well they're not going to give you that computer in jail. You're going to be forced to write it on a pencil and that's going to be an okay experience for you. But the exp, what is it that makes it to you like the hand of God? What is it about writing on paper?

My little analogy of it is you can't write poetry on a computer. Why not? Well, because I'm going for a rhythm. I'm going for I'm going for I'm going for a rhythm and then and and and there's like there's a connection between my chicken scratch and this paper and this pen as opposed to This other thing and and the more unintelligible than only I can read it the more Legit it kind of is and the thing is and and it's it's vomit it's absolutely vomit okay that uh yeah you when you write by hand you overwrite you way way overwrite yeah

because you just you're just getting it out there you're getting it out there then after all the vomit happens then you sit down with a typewriter or then you sit down with a thing and now you take the vomit and you and you tame it and now you make it now you make the sentences work and now you take the vomit and you tame it. You massage it. And now you make it, now you make the sentences work. And now you, there's more creative, this is a, okay, now you make, and now you come up and now you make it work like a writer. Now you make the page work. Now you make the sentences work.

Can we stop for a second while I run the restroom? Yeah, yeah, let's go. Hey, you have cigars, don't you? Yeah, you want a cigar? Yeah, let's have some cigars. He doesn't do anything fun On Jorogas show I will have a cigar Well, maybe I should talk about this

Should talk about are we on yeah, can I go? Yeah this. Yeah, you should talk about it. Maybe I should talk about... are we on? Can I go? Yeah, I don't do anything fun. Don't do anything fun. Making movies is fun. Where's the cutter? I thought that was a cutter. Is that a cutter or is that brass knuckles?

What are you saying about fun? I don't do anything fun. Well, you know, after what happened to me, I mean, I should probably tell the whole story and maybe I eventually will here, but you know, I went to jail for a DUI-related incident that caused manslaughter. And one of my passengers died. And you know, after that and going to jail and whatnot. I- He's not the funnest guy to get drunk with. Yeah, I don't.

Yeah. I, it's kind of what it is. You know, if I go to a party or something like that, I don't want to be seen holding a drink with, you know, even with water in it. I'm teasing him, but I get it. Of course. Who wouldn't fucking get it? But then you add the fact that he's a vegetarian. All the fun shit.

You're a vegetarian? Why'd you do that? Because his wife made him. That happens. That happened to a friend of mine. He sneaks out burgers every now and then. I also have a kind of, it kind of like a an animal thing. I had a pig as a as a pet and man when you look at those eyes those are human eyes there yeah and yeah I looked into it and it looked into my I just I had chickens before that and you know what it's like chickens are like cats you know they want back scratches

and stuff and I just couldn't like after a while. I just couldn't do it. Yeah There's people that are feral You ever met a feral person? You don't want to let them sleep in your house Yeah, right a wild crazy person you're in jail. So push that thing up. You had it right. You had it right today Yeah, this thing right here. Yeah, push that Yeah, sorry, sorry You've yeah, they're great. Foundation cigar, shout out.

You've been around feral people, right? You don't want feral people living in your house. You don't wanna take some murderer and give him your car and let him come and sleep in your room, you know? Yeah. It's different. Yeah. I should take you around some wild pigs.

No, I've- Wild pigs are like little demons. They make like orc sounds take you around some wild pigs. Wild pigs are like little demons. They make like orc sounds. Wild pigs are wild pigs. I get it. They fight with each other. There are people who are like that also. Exactly. That's my point. My point is domesticated people are awesome. Domesticated people like yourself and myself, we're fun to be around. We're nice people. We know we're not going to're not gonna rob you, no one's gonna kill you. It's, there's a difference what the wild, the wild is. It's different. So I understand that you wouldn't want to eat animals, but they eat each other. And it's just this bizarre cycle of life. I think it's,

it's where you're getting your animals from are you getting your animals from? like a these mass factory That's the other part of it is I think there's a line in Highland or two where Sean Connery says I Don't eat anything that I cannot identify And I kind of feel like that as well like I don't have a lot of trust for large industrial. You shouldn't. But you can get meat from like a farm, you know, like you can get it from a ranch. You could go to one of those, you know, they have those, what are those farmers market type deals? Oh, yeah. And meet a rancher and I am not from them.

I am not like one of these people who are like, oh never, never. Like, you know, if I am in the right place and the right environment and the right food is there, like if there's a, like if I'm on an island in Greece and the guy comes up from the boat with a basket of fish and which one would you like? I'll take that one. You know, sure. Do you at least eat eggs? Oh Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay, so you days like they're going out of style Yeah, that's good. So you're like getting what you need cool long as you eat eggs I tell people like eggs are free. No one's getting hurt, especially if you have your own chickens

That's the greatest thing in the world. We have 15 checkers. There's nothing like Eggs straight from a chicken. Oh, it's great. Nothing. It's karma free. The chickens are having a good time No one's getting hurt. You like they're all they're all like treated like pets like hey girls I love chickens. I would I actually really have I've always actually thought that An exotic pet would be to have like a chicken An exotic pet would be to have like a chicken It's like one chicken. Yeah, I just like treated like a dog a tree. Hey, that's my chicken He hangs around you got to get a couple of them. They need to have a pecking order. Yes

They like to hang out with each other Gerbils figured that one out Yeah, the he was a chicken farmer was he really oh, yeah, oh no shit and farmer That's how he well, it's worked out all of his policies in the camps is we shouldn't talk about that Chicken farming You know, it's like this is the name ate off right you can't use it anymore You can't have that little mustache anymore. You can't have a chaplain Jordan tried for a little while. Yeah, Mike. That's how competitive that guy is like fuck that I can have I can wear that mustache

He had a Hitler for a while. I think I can make it happen. I'll make it happen. He just decided he was going to force it through. You know, as far as writing in jail, I'm just thinking about it right now. One of the other things I had to contend with was they would confiscate anything that I wrote. So, you know, like once a week or once every two weeks or so why would they do that it was it illegal to write I was considered a security threat by what I was writing and Oh because you were telling me first about what was going on that and then when they sent me in like I was placed in this like solitary confinement thing like in the hole and You know you're in there and like I never been anything like that before in my life I was thinking this is like fucking Guantanamo except

it made me think about it I've got due process at least and so I'm in this like crazy Kafka esque mechanized totalitarian environment you're in a room where you have no window and the lights are on 24 7 and you know I don't care what anybody says you go into a room three days deprived of sound and and and the understanding of time you go crazy after a you know after two days you're insane they broke me after two days I was like oh I'll do some yoga meditate no problem meditate. No problem. No, after a while, if the lights are on 24 seven and you can't hear it, it's like being inside of a seashell. You go slowly nuts. Is that by design? Oh yeah. Yeah, for

sure. It's by design. It's like you're placed into a and, and, um, so about once a week, like in what I was in population, um, about once a week, the middle of the night or, you know, the lights are down and suddenly the lights come on bright. Lights are always on, but lights come on bright. And suddenly a bunch of guards come rushing in through the doors. You know, they just storm into the, the tank, into the,, into the section, and they pull everybody out of their cells and they strip everybody naked and they put you up against a wall.

So you're up there with like, you know, Sancho and you know, Leroy and like everybody's, suddenly you're all, you know, one moment you're being kept separate and next thing you know, you're all naked together standing up against a wall and they're going through everybody's cell and they're just ripping your cell apart, looking for anything.

And usually they're looking for tar heroin or a shank or a weapon of some kind or works or some cell phones, anything like they're looking for anything that's considered contraband. Okay. For me, they were looking at my writing. Cause when I was in solitary for that time, like literally on kites, a kite is a, like a requisition form that you send out to the guards. You're not allowed to talk to the guards. They don't want you to, they don't want to talk to you. You tell them what you want on a kite and then you give them the kite and then

they take it off and maybe it gets answered. I'd never had one answered. And so, um, they, they come in, they strip everybody naked, they take all your clothes and they're under the guise of where, you know, we're doing a laundry exchange. And so everybody gets new clothes and you end up with like these big baggy pants and or something too small for you. And they would look for contraband for everybody. Well with me, they would look for whatever I was writing because when I was in solitary, I was writing, um, you know, like maps, I would map the place,

like a idiot. Like I still was, uh, you know, I'm writing about, oh, Eisenhard, the guard, I saw him watching, you know, uh, uh, like literally saw him watching on a little TV, Nazi propaganda, like triumph of the will is playing on his TV and he's watching it. I'm going to write that down. So they didn't want me writing all my stuff. They were like, that guy is a fucking threat. You get whatever he's written.

And so I noticed that whenever I was taken out of my cell to shower, to go to yard, to do whatever, that they would come in and just take whatever I had written. So I learned that they couldn't take or open letters to my attorney. And so because it's privileged. And so what I would do is I would just write and then whenever I had to leave myself like to go to yard or if they were raiding the cells and taking everybody out and looking for contraband, I would just quickly seal the envelope. My writing would go in, you know, I always left it when I was working in the letter to my attorney. And then as soon as they would rate it, I would just seal the envelope and then that would go out. Then he would send

that letter to my daughter, who would then type up the pages that I was writing. So that's how I wrote several scripts was like that. Wow. And yeah because little... What did you read? You said you read some of Roger's writing when he was in prison. What did you read? You... where did you publish it? I don't remember where I was reading it. Well was it on Twitter? I had several things. Okay so first of all I was placed... I was sentenced to go to a low security like a country club facility I went I went to a low security facility and I went in there and you know you have access to stuff it's it's you know it's more like a like a camp almost and

you're there and you're incarcerated but it's it's a light incarceration almost. And I had access to a cell phone, and so I started tweeting, and these were the early days of Twitter. And so I started tweeting, oh, they found tar heroin in Pudgy's cell, and they dragged him off. And oh, this happened over here. Oh, so-and-so shanked so-and-so shakes on so they've rolled up so-and-so and taken away. I was like tweeting this stuff. And this is the early days of Twitter. And Roger Ebert, who was like at that time, the biggest on Twitter was following me. And he put me on blast.

Like he, he suddenly decided that he would tell every, and like all of a sudden one day overnight, like the story kind of went everywhere in the world. He put you on blast in a positive way. Well, he, he just told everybody that this is happening. Somebody is Roger Avery Academy award winning writer is tweeting from jail and tweeting from behind bars. Did he, but did he have a, At the time, now it's like nothing. People do it all the time.

People, like, I've got a- Shook Knight's doing podcasts from behind bars. I've got a friend who's one of those January 6 guys, and he sends me like tweets all the time. Like he's- You got a friend who's a January 6 guy? This is like early days though, yeah. You got a friend who was a January 6 guy?

Well, he's still there. He's like hundreds of days in jail without any kind of, without trial. Without process. I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but like that's not how it's supposed to be, is it? That's not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to have a due process of some kind. Well, especially when you watch the actual footage

of how it went down. Oh, I watched it live. And there was that guy, that Antifa guy waving people in you know like moving them in they were moving the the the block stockade the blockade things they were moving out and cops were waving people in they were opening the doors for people. I want you to think about it this way in the most heavily armed nation the world has ever known why would you have an insurrection with no guns? They gotta have guns. Machine guns.

Those guys weren't planning on an insurrection. No! And then you have the factor that there was agents in the crowd. And we don't know how many. There's government agents in the crowd that were inciting people to go in. That's what they do. And I want to know who that cop was who shot that woman. Yeah.

What about that? Yeah, that the whole thing's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And then there's this thing that cops died that no, no cops got died that day. That's not true. No, the cop who died, he died of a stroke. And I believe it was a stroke, a stroke or a heart attack. But well, everything, there's a lot of misinformation being given to us by the mainstream media

attributed to it, you know, sort of like when, you know, anything happens to anyone four years after the vaccine, they attribute it to the vaccine. Oh, it was probably the vaccine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could have been the guy just had a fucking heart attack. But this guy who was a cop, he did not die. It was not killed by the protesters. And you watch the video of the shaman dude with the fucking buffalo hat.

They're walking him around. The cops are guiding him. Oh yeah, no, they're showing him around. They're guiding him. How would you ever think that that is is gonna let you wind up in jail? How would you ever think that if you're an unsophisticated guy who was wearing fucking face paint? And you're kind of a kook which and you're part of you think you're part of a movement, which is really scary You know people get a part of a movement and they

Fuckin yeah, we're all doing it and then you've got literal government agents encouraging you to do it moving barriers letting you in they were playing chess and these idiots were playing checkers and they all got locked up because nobody was doing an insurrection it wasn't an insurrection you don't do an insurrection without weapons it's the whole idea is crazy there was no presumption that there was gonna be any kind of like that you were gonna get thrown in jail for a thousand days and so my Lang is uh, he's been there forever and every now and then I get out like a picture of him like he's been in like Look, I deserve to go to jail

That guy doesn't right and most of those guys don't yeah I think it was a bad decision certainly to go into the capital is a bad decision to smash windows But I want to know who people have been smashing things like for a whole year before that right? That's a very good point. It's like we were a culture of smashing things at that point It's also as soon as you find out that there were government agents that may or may not have incited people to go in the whole Thing fucking changes like what are you trying to do? Are you there to serve and protect or Is there some other weird shit going on because it seems like there is and no one wants to talk about it

Because you don't want to be that guy But at a certain point in time you should be that guy What's going on man? There comes a point where men of good conscience must stand up and And and speak out against things that are obviously wrong. That is one of them. Yeah, that is one of them.

It's a big one. It's a weird one. And there's all this pushback about Trump getting into office because he said one of the first things he said was he was going to release all the January 6 prisoners. How long do you think they should be in there for? Who's opposing this? They should at least be going to release all the January 6 prisoners. Like, how long do you think they should be in there for? Who's opposing this? They should at least be going to trial. Yes. You should at least be going to trial. It is unconscionable to hold somebody for over a year, two years. Well, the thing, the government has always had a situation where, and we talked about

when we did our episode on the Andersonville trial. Yeah, you know is The one charge that the government can put against you where they don't need direct evidence is conspiracy If they arrest you for conspiracy, that means they don't have direct evidence, but they don't need direct By the by the way when I was like just one thing that's how they got Manson right? Oh, yeah Yeah, that's true, right? All right, because they knew what Manson done cuz they were helping them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Well, I believe that too because you're reading Books one of the best Manson book that they're possibly could read and then I read that when I throw the rest of them away

Yeah fucking trash chaos is chaos It's just a fantastic and he helped me too because My my first ad is a friend of his or a Bill Clark No, and when I was writing the the once upon a time in Hollywood book I go deeper into the Manson stuff And so I had a couple of little questions in my head And I always kind of wanted to know the answer to. So I got Tom's number and I called him up and I was able to ask him some really super

like direct questions that can really help my book. It's a crazy fucking story. Oh, it's. You know, when I was in jail, I found out they record everything. They're just constantly recording. And so somebody's in there and they're like, man, I'd like to kill that DA.

Well, that's conspiracy. And so they'll wait and like, man, I'd like to kill that DA. Well, that's conspiracy. And so they'll wait and like, oh, you're about to get out. And like, they'll literally start walking out and they're like, ah, stop. Oh God. Remember that thing you said about conspiracy? Let's play that back for you. Oh God.

Or what you said about killing the DA. Well, that's, you're going away again. You're going back to trial. That happened a lot. But it's also- Don't ever talk. They put guys in your cell to get you talking about shit Oh, yeah, that happened that happened right away that happened right away. They're trying to get you to to incriminate yourself deeper Constantly, it's like a fun game. What a fun game. What a fun game to serve and protect and

incriminate you deeper well, I Look, I had a my, as Quentin will confirm, I have my authority issues. I always have. I always have. I'm suspicious of anyone in power. You should be. Yeah, it's intoxicating.

Maybe a little like this. Okay, so when Roger, part of the thing in our show, I'm getting back to what Roger's saying. I'm not changing the subject. When we on our show. I'm getting back to what Roger's saying. I'm not changing the subject. When we do our show, you know, the thing is when we do our show, we talk about three movies. So I pick three video cassettes. The show we're talking about is the Video Archives podcast, which is our second season. Patreon.com slash Video Archives. But the thing is, all right, so it's like there's like the main movie, then there's that second movie that's like kind of like the main movie, but probably you don't know that much about

it, some wild exploitation thing that I, you know, what the fuck is this, let's watch it and find out. And one of the things that's about our show is, I don't say, hey Roger, so find these movies and you watch them and I'll watch them and we'll get together and we'll do it on the phone too. Well, no, no, no, we don't do that. All right. You know, we get together to watch the movies together. Part of it is the experience of being together and watching the movie together through his eyes. The reason we came up with the idea of the show is like when we reconnected,

we started doing what we used to do during the pandemic. Yeah. And then we were sort of like, well, hey, let's come up with a way we can get paid to do this. All right? You know? So me and Roger will get together and we'll watch three movies and sometimes even four. And then we'll get together, then we have a day off and then we get together on another day and then we record and we're always in the room when we do it. But the thing is, when Roger comes over to watch the film, I've kind of learned that

it's like, Roger, I'm starting, it's three movies we're going to watch the film, I've kind of learned that it's like, Roger, I'm starting, it's three movies we're gonna watch. I am starting the first movie 20 minutes after you get here, because Roger will just get off on some archaic piece of thing. The Earth is flat! The Earth is flat! And the next thing you know, alright, it's been an hour and 15 minutes later, and you're getting further and further and further away, all right, from the alchemy we're trying to create with the first movie. So now it's a little, in 20 minutes, I'm hitting play.

And that's it. So wrap it up. That's a problem with podcasts. When people come over, sometimes we have some of the best conversations before the podcast. So now I have to be rude. I'll be like, stop, stop, stop. Let's not talk. You're all good. Come on in. Let's come on in. Let conversations before the podcast. Yeah, so now I have to be rude I'll be like stop stop stop. Let's not talk Let's catch that man. Yeah, yeah, cuz you got to catch it cuz it is weird. It's a it's a weird thing

You know, um, it's it's a beautiful thing though, because it's so open, you know, there's no one telling like there's no studio people Yeah, no, even the idea I mean one the fact the idea The idea that this has replaced the talk show the talk shows that we grew up watching and like those kings. The fact that podcasting and you're the king of them, but the fact that that podcasting has replaced that but also the fact that Anybody that it's got something intelligent it's got a cool little setup. It's got an interesting personality and it can It can sell it. It's so interesting conversation Theoretically can start a podcast 100%

Yeah, yeah It's the barrier to entry so low I think about the barrier to entry when you wanted to be a director Oh, yeah, Jesus fucking crazy. I'm only not only that You know like the old days of television, you know like Desi Lou, yeah, we own our content like you own your content. Yeah and Never mind that it's a podcast. I'm okay with that I like the the fact that this is where, for the first time in my life at least, I'm involved with something where there is nobody else.

It's me and Quentin who decide everything. And if Quentin wants to do it, we go there. If I wanna do it, we go there. Well, I talked to Quentin, if Quentin allows it, we go there. It... It... I mean, basically what we're doing

is the same thing we used to do. That's true We do what we used to do at the video store. We're talking about completely terrible. I have the kill switch But the kill switch is always there. No, not really, not really. Well, I guess, theoretically. But you know what? But you want a theoretical sort of damocles hanging over your head. Most times when you've used the kill switch,

you've used it on your own. I use it on myself. You used it on yourself. You actually haven't used it on any of my things that I've wanted to do, which is really cool. But basically we're doing the same thing we used to do. We used to sit around and talk about movies. And so during the pandemic, Quentin called me up

and we hadn't talked for, I mean, we had bumped into each other. We bumped into each other a few times. But we hadn't really, we had had a little bit of a... We had a falling out. We had a falling out. And I call it a sort of a business- falling out and maybe if I had been a little more mature, I was young as a filmmaker and probably unprepared to deal with the complexities

of agents and attorneys and Hollywood and money and fame and the press and the press's agenda and all of that. I was just approaching it like I'm a SoCal, Gen X, punk filmmaker. That was how I approached it. I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want to do. I'm gonna make the movie that I want to make and with that attitude of, you know, I know what I want and I know what's right and nobody can tell me I'm wrong. Because you have to be a little bit of a megalomaniac to be a director. You have to be willing to say, no, I'm right,

even when everyone is telling you you're wrong. And is that a joke or two got made? I like Joker too. I like Joker too. I like Joker too. I haven't seen it. I'm just fucking around. I will defend Joker too. I'll defend the movie as well. I can't wait to watch it. I need more fucking press on that. I can't wait to watch it and then talk to you about it afterwards Is Tim Dillon said is the worst fucking movie that's ever been made and he's in it You know I can well that may have colored his perception though, but Tim thinks everything sucks No matter what everybody's saying is amazing like Tim loves to talk shit about Austin. Yeah, the funniest thing That I've heard for a while on YouTube what I was listening to you guys talk is I

He's a guy. I never really listened to his show or anything like that. He's fucking brilliant But when he was on your thing talking about the election and when he described Tim Walt is like Well, that guy just that guy's a goofball who just should be at a county fair eating hot dogs Three different times that was such a funny He's always funny. He said it sounds like Kamala Harris is doing voodoo curses. She's doing gypsy curses. He said She speaks in gypsy curses. She's doing gypsy curses he said. She speaks in gypsy curses. And he always does this show with these fucking crazy glasses on like that's his new thing. If you ever watch his show it's the best because it's literally just him ranting and a producer. And the ability to rant as a singleton operator, as a fucking lone person out there without anybody to bounce ideas off of,

is a rare talent. And he's the best at it I've ever seen. Bill Burr's really good at it as well, but Tim Dillon is the best at it I've ever seen. He's so fucking good at it. And he's just basically performing to one person who's his producer. And he's just ranting.

And so because of that, he's got this crazy muscle that he's developed from years of doing that We just rants about all these different things, but it's fucking brilliant. I like ranting Well, that's the great thing about you guys doing a podcast together Well, it's gonna get to it's like in the beginning you're talking about replacing the talk show Well fucking you guys replace Siskel and Ebert, right? You talking about replacing the talk show well fucking you guys replace Siskel and Ebert right? Because this is what we wanted to thank you. Thank you That's God was actually the agenda that Quentin proposed to me both those guys are gone

You know what I love watching is videos of like outtakes of those guys like bitching at each other fucking hated each other yeah, they were so shitty to each other and then they had to be smiley and What a bullshit way to live when Vincent Gallo wished testicular cancer on Roger Ebert and then he got it? Oh, wow. Do you remember that? OK, I do.

Well, he had cancer of a mouth. Now that you bring it up, yeah. Right? He lost his jaw. He didn't remove his jaw bone. That was Vincent Gallo cursing it onto him. Oh, voodoo's real. He apologized after he, oh my god, I didn't. I think he got it.

Well, I think that might have led him. After Roger Ebert said that Brown Bunny was the worst film to ever play in the history of con film. That's exactly what happened. And then he went and he cursed him and then the curse came true and then he regretted it. I talked to him. He was like, I wish I had never done that. It's crazy if it really worked. That movie brown bunny. I want to talk about that because I've always thought

It's so strange that we can show violence But we can't show sex and I know they tried to do that with like you ever see the lines outside the movie theater when deep Throat oh, yeah, Carson was in line. Yeah, Johnny Carson went to see deep throat in a public line. Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat in a public theater. Oh, Bing Crosby. I heard stories about Bing Crosby who arrived at midnight at the... People didn't know what they were seeing yet. It hadn't been defined as a genre. There was nudie movies that people watched at stag parties. There's that little moment in 73 where there was porno chic. Yeah. Well, Stallone did Italian Stallion. Yeah, but that wasn't a popular thing. This was. Everyone had to kind

of see it. And like, oh, hey, maybe this will be a thing. Right, right. Maybe this will be a thing now that like, you know, you know, you know, one or three or four porn movies will come out every year. That'll be like kind of considered like real movies, you know, that couples will go see. Yeah. And that was a whole thing was, uh, uh, um, promoting the idea of, uh, couples going to see a porn film, either porno films or just heavily erotic movies, right? You know, uh, like for sexy, for sexy nights. Yeah. Not like Travis Bickle, not like how Travis Bickle does it.

We're going to have a sexy night. We're going to go out and see, and then we'll go home and we'll take care of business. Right, yeah. But it didn't really happen, but there was this hope in the early 70s that that could happen. But it's fascinating that it didn't happen, because what I was gonna get to is like violence we don't have any problem with.

But we all agree that consensual sex is way better than someone getting shot in the face. But people get shot in the face in movies constantly. You see heads explode and arms getting lopped off. Bretton Butter. Game of Thrones. Bretton Butter. It's constant.

I think it's actually gone too far, I think. I mean, this could be for me. Well, it's not that violence has gone too far. It's the meaningless violence has gone. Violence without purpose almost and I started to recognize this during walking dead But really Game of Thrones though you mentioned Game of Thrones Like I loved Game of Thrones at first and then I started realizing wait a minute like they're getting off on me falling in love with characters and then

The moment I've fallen in love with the character suddenly. They vivisecting their genitals you know it's like and then the cycle begins again you fall in love with a different character and then they're killing them and they're just doing it like sadistically because there's like there's nowhere to go other than that they're just pushing the ceiling higher and higher sort of but also if you were living in that world, that would be reality Nobody lived forever and became the hero of the fucking movie. There's no heroes back then everybody's getting gutted. There's they're getting usurped They're like going into a dungeon. Yeah, you know, yeah people getting your out the lion It's just you're getting eaten by dogs

This is real and now you have to fight for the next five years against the rats Yeah, they're in the fucking dungeon with you But television at least the television I grew up with was all about like the familiarity of returning to the characters you love Yeah, but there was plenty of characters. Yeah, and you did get to return to the ones that stuck around didn't get their heads I just killed other characters Give you another example of my Everyone talks about how great television is now. It's pretty good, I gotta say. It's pretty good. But it's still television to me. And what's the difference between television and a good movie? Because a lot of the TV now has the patina of a movie. Mm hmm. All right.

It they're using cinematic language, all right, to get you caught up in it. And and obviously I'm talking about good shows. We're talking about shows that you're Ozark. We're talking about shows that you're compelled to watch. Right. Right. Right. All right. And so, OK, so I'll use an example of a show. I'll use Yellowstone. I didn't really get around to watching Yellowstone the first three years or so.

And then I watched the first season. I go, wow, this is fucking great. I've always been a big Kevin Costner fan. He's fucking wonderful in this. All right? And I got really caught up in the show and everything. And all of a sudden, I'm having a good time. And I've got a couple seasons I haven't seen so I'm watching it.

And in the first season, I'm kind of talking, this is like a movie, this is like a big movie, it's like a big movie. And the guy who writes that is a good writer, there's good punchy monologues and stuff. So then I end up watching like three seasons of it and then I even watched that 1883. Oh, this is a good western show. I like westerns. But then after I've watched like two or three seasons or one season of 1883, look, while I'm watching it, I am compelled. I'm caught up in it. But at the end of the day, it's all just a soap opera.

They've introduced you to a bunch of characters. You actually kind of know all their backstories. You know everybody's connection with everybody else. And you know, they spend some time selling that out. And then everything is just the compellingness of the soap opera. Right. Of what's happening to this character. And what's different between that and a film? Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Because the thing is, if you watch Edge of Night, Monday through Friday, you get caught up in the dramas of the family and everything.

But you don't remember it five years from now. You're caught up into the minutiae of it at the moment. All right? So the difference between is, I'll see a good Western movie, and I'll of it at the moment. All right, so the difference between is, is I'll see a good western movie and I'll remember it for the rest of my life. I'll remember the story. I'll remember this scene or that scene. And it built, it built to an emotional climax of some degree. And you know, one, the story is good. It's not just about the interpersonal relationships. The story is good itself, but, itself, but there's a payoff to it.

But there's not a payoff on this stuff. It's just more inter-connectional drama. And while I'm watching it, that's good enough. But when it's over, I couldn't tell you... I can remember who the bad guy was in the first season of Yellowstone because it was Danny Houston. I remember him in it. But I don't remember any of the details of it. But I don't remember any of the details of it. And I don't remember any of the bad guys

for season two or season three. It's out of my head. It's just completely out of. And same thing with 1883, when I watched the whole thing and that was like a, that seemed like a movie, except I don't remember, Sam Elliott is about the only thing I really remember

of it when it was finished. But now Red River I remember for the rest of my life. Isn't that though because it's a different thing, right? Because when you go to a film, film is designed for one sitting. You sit down in the theater, you're going to get the entire encapsulation of what happens to these characters in three hours. Okay, I'll give you an example of one that is more than a soap opera. And here's the difference.

Okay. Here's the difference. Okay. Okay, I'll give you an example of one that is more than a soap opera. And here's the difference. Here's the difference. Okay, yeah, you could say that. Look, they're in the soap opera business, but I'll tell you one that's not. If you watch that first season of... Now, here's one that really works like a movie. If you watch the first season of Homeland. Oh, yeah. Right.

That first season of Homeland. First season's incredible. Okay. Yeah, very good When it gets to that final episode of the first season and he's got the suicide vest on Yeah, and he's in the room He can kill the guys that he's been waiting for through to do it for the whole movie and you don't want him to die But you're kind of into him and you kind of want him to pull it off and then his daughter calls him on the phone

before he does it she doesn't know what he's gonna do but she gets that little sense from him that something's weird you dad you need to tell me that you're gonna come home right now you need to tell me right now that I will see you later tonight and the entire series has been built to this scene. And it's one of the most emotional scenes I've ever seen in any movie, any TV show I've ever seen. The first season was great. I've ever seen dramatized. Now, that was a movie.

Right. That was not a soap opera. That built to this moment of him being in that fucking room with the suicide vest on. And there was complexity. She doesn't know what she's asking, but we do. She's stopping this major thing and she'll never know that, but we do. And he's still committed, but he's more committed to her and we know that. That's just great shit. That's but he's more committed to her and we know that Mmm, that's just great shit. That's a movie right and you can't can you do that every week? No, I didn't say you can do it every week, but I mean When the seasons over I need to walk away with more than just the soap opera an impactful moment

Exactly. I don't expect you to do that every week, but at the end of the arc moment exactly I don't expect you to do that every week but at the end of the arc mmm you're telling a continuing story right at the end of that fucking season you need to BAM drop the mic yeah you need to tell me a fucking story not just dot dot dot dot dot I see what you're saying and look while I'm watching it I'm not asking for that. But the fact that it all just disappears once it's over and it's just sand on the beach. Right. It's a different thing though, right?

I mean, this is the weirdness of the theater experience versus home. Here's where it's not a different thing. Part of the thing that makes it different is the fact that everyone's watching these continuing stories, continuing stories, continuing stories. Okay, if it were Bonanza, where it's just a set up story, Charles Bronson shows up,

he's a half-breed Indian and he's working at the Ponderosa for a while, and he gets involved in an adventure and then at the end it's done. Well, on that show, you have the episodes are maybe not so good or episodes are there are are whatever they're trying to continue story. But then you have this great episode with Charles Bronson or they have a great episode with James Cobra. That could have been a movie. Yeah, they could have expanded that to a movie. Right. They're standalones instead of just a long ongoing story. Well the difference is that that's episodic. It's a long ongoing story that leads to the soap opera aspect. Well it's episodic and television now has become completely serialized. Yeah. And so you know

somebody's going in and they're pitching their show even a really really good show like Deadwood. Okay Deadwood I know what they they probably went in they pitched and what they knew that they were going to make was the was it Wild Bill? The Wild Bill story. And they've got Carradine and like, and they know that story. And that show is fantastic as long as they're telling that story, which is like six to eight episodes. Once he's gone, I don't think they had a plan. They that was what they pitched and it was like they pitched a movie spread out over a number of episodes, but it wasn't even the full season. Yeah, but by that point in time they have now they have all the town characters. Well, they've got everybody, but I

would maintain that for the rest of Deadwood after Carradine's gone, it's just things are happening. Stuff is happening. But I don't remember anything about that show, other than the town and the various actors that I liked on the show. But really, all they had was those first six to eight episodes. I can't remember exactly what it was. And the thing about it is, I'm not... I don't say all this, and the sum up of it all is it's useless it is very compelling while I'm watching it but it just doesn't compare to a movie

real story that is that you know that stays with me for the for the rest of my life in some cases right I know what you're saying and like we'll watch a lot of you know I try to watch at least one movie every episode that I haven't seen. And sometimes it's like, well, I haven't seen it since I was 12. You know, or I haven't seen it since I was... Those are actually the scariest ones to watch, because if you loved something when you were young, it's almost like... Well, and I'm expecting not to... I'm tougher on stuff now than I used to be, all right? I was a big champion about stuff. Now I'm not such a champion. Now I see all the problems with it. All right, but I watch something

I haven't seen since I was 22 and I felt like the day had opened and I you know, and I I watch you know, I I watch it again I think I just love my train of thought well actually I can jump in really quick if you want, you know Talking like I'm stoned and I'm not Strong cigars One of the movies we saw that we had seen a million times and we didn't even think that it was going to be anything Was dressed to kill. Yeah

It was one of those things where we were doing a thing a Special episode with Eli Roth. We were taking you know, the Italian Jalo thrillers and thing Okay Where do the American versions of Jallow thrillers? And we figured out there was like four of them. And one of them was Dressed to Kill. Michael Caine. Yeah.

So we get together with Eli, and we're going to watch these four movies. And then it comes down to Dressed to Kill. And it's like, I can't even think about how many times I've seen Dressed to Kill. Hundreds. I can't even think how many times he's seen it And how many times that? Eli seen I mean, we're just huge Brian De Palma fans and Nancy Allen fans and everything so it was like how many fucking times and so I Almost almost brought up. I mean, do we even need to watch dress to kill?

I mean, we've got we had a little Congress about it. We've got three movies. No, okay. Let's just watch it. We'll just watch it That ended up being one of the greatest screenings of Dressed to Kill I've ever seen. All right. In that, in our living room, in my living room watching it with Roger. On VHS. On VHS, pan and scan. All right. The old Wonder Brothers video. Because we watch them on, we watch them on the actual video cassettes of video archives. All right. Literally, the tape that we used to rent and handle and shuffle and put back and forth into the drawers and then rent to customers and that has been sitting on the shelves with the number on it and everything for the computer.

We've seen the movie a bunch of times, but something about watching it with the three of us and then just sitting there and it's so good. But it was Roger who was adding to it. It was Eli that was adding to it. We're seeing it through their eyes. Roger who was adding to it it was Eli that was adding to it and I was adding to them yeah you know and like we just had this like appreciation for the movie watching it with the three of us in this situation the fact that we even considered not even watching it was just like sacrilege and we saw things in it that we had never seen before that was the other

thing it's like I saw things in during that screening because of, because of feeling watching the movie with you guys that I had never thought about before. And so it opened up all sorts of avenues. And you know, most frequently you watch a movie and it's, it doesn't live up. I'm afraid to watch movies again, you know, a lot of the time. Mm-hmm That was just one of those happy Incidences where the movie really lived up it stayed strong Even when we'd seen it hundreds, I know you could not it be hard to pick a movie that I've seen as much as dress Okay

See, this is the better version of Cisco and Ebert This is exactly what I'm talking about. The completely unproduced, uninfluenced version. Well I told Roger when we finished the first season, I go you know Roger if we do this the right way in three or four years time we could be considered like Siskel and Ebert. A hundred percent. It's just a matter of getting it out there. I think there's just a bunch of people that aren't aware of it yet they will come yeah don't it and they will come what I love about the way we're doing it because our first season we just you know we just put it

out and and we had a partner with Sirius XM back then and this season you know they kind of went out of business in their own for their podcasting thing a little bit oh did they Pandora now right yeah yeah they kind of turned into a different thing podcast deal with the caller daddy chick yeah yeah so I guess they're trying to get back into it as well they paid us a lot of money to do it and like we actually did pretty good for like our little archaic little movie Yeah, mm-hmm show that goes on about two hours a real nice type. Yeah, and we Can you guys do jaws now? We don't do jobs, but that's the best part of it do whatever the fuck you want to do That's exactly it, but the thing is they were like uh

So we actually had about like two million listeners which was like hey that was pretty good for us for us doing our little stupid Movie show about VHS VHS it's about the VHS we're talking about the box art We watch the film we talk about the trailers that are in front of the movie all right We talked about the transfer by the way the movie VHS is one of my guilty pleasure The one with the the devil lady yeah VHS is one of my guilty pleasure the one with the devil lady yeah yeah she turns into a devil the three four different stories are three different stories but that one is worth it just

sit through the other three for that one the devil lady was fucking amazing but I think they were expecting us to do like John Sisson Kane like Dax Shepard kind of numbers like we're never gonna do that with what we're doing. Right, right, right. Yeah. And, you know, so we're talking- But you could, though. People want to see it.

They want to listen to it. It's just a matter of just it bidding. They'll realize they wanted it once they hear it. That's what it is. It's like, oh, we want them to only talk about Citizen Kane. No, no, no, no. It's got to be whatever the fuck they actually want to talk about. But then you'll learn about that movie that you never heard about. Maybe you go see it. And then you'll

have a deeper appreciation of why these guys love movies. But one of the things that was interesting when we did it when we were okay, so when we made our deal, we're thinking, okay, well, maybe we'll do it here for two years. And we own the show. And then we want to take it to Patreon. So we don't have to do commercials, right and now when I did commercials I did it with a 70s DJ announcer voice. All right, because I felt like such a sellout that I'm not gonna do it in my voice The Datsun 750 is coming and it's coming soon. You know, and I did it like the real Don Steele. That was my whole thing.

I did it like the real Don Steele. I just did those readings like myself and people started commenting on Twitter. They were like, man, Roger Avery. Zip Recruiter, can you refill your placement in a quick week. Some people even get, in the first week, they get qualified candidates only on ziprecruiter.com. Look, I like solo stoves.

They're great. But, like, I found myself doing, like, you know, stainless steel ads, basically, and talking about solo stoves. And suddenly people on Twitter were saying, Roger Avery will sell you sour milk from a sick cow. It's like, well, I don't know if I wanna like be shilling stuff like that anymore. You just have to only approve the ads that you wanna do. Like, I approve ads.

I don't like just let them give me every ad. I'm like, I can't do this one. Well, we don't say it all the time. We're not even under that kind of pressure now. Yeah, yeah, about it. I thought it but that would be kind of cool. It is like if we go to patreon we'll lose a whole bunch of We'll use we'll lose a whole bunch of listeners, but You know, we'll put a we put a 40 minute version of the show out there for free you know if you want to get the whole show then you've got got to like, you know, you got to subscribe. And if you just subscribe, you get the show. If you

pay, if you pay $5, you get our show. Boom, boom. And if you pay $8, then you get an extra special show that we do. And we're going to there's a still a truncated version of it available for everybody to listen to. You like the first part of it, come for the rest. But the thing is, though, is what I like. And some people are sort of like I have fucked those guys I think well okay fine all right and look I get it I'm the guy that I'm the guy what it did my 20s would they go to happy hour at the bar all right and nurse a beer while I eat all the pizza

and the chicken wings and that was my dinner yeah so I get that you know and by the way you know if you want want to wait till the end of our season and then join for a month and listen to all of our shows that way, you can. That's an easy way to do it. You can get everything for free for a month. You can get everything you want in a month. But that's not who we're doing it for.

We're doing it for the people who care about the show and are subscribing to it. And those people, those are our audience. And then they write on the message board, and we write them back. So we're doing it for those people, those are our audience. And then they write on the message board, and we write them back. So we're doing it for those people. And as long as we can make enough to just do the show, we're cool.

And the general feeling is, wow, this is like a $5 film school. Because you've got a couple of guys talking about movies and talking about how to watch movies, how to appreciate films, how to read a film. And hopefully just genuinely compelling discussions. And using our experience as filmmakers to discuss even, you know, deeper into the movies and to better understand them, and you know, it's largely... something has happened in culture where people, they don't know how to argue

anymore politely. They don't know how to like enjoy an argument with each other before. And so Quentin and I, we don't have to like the same move, just like Cisco and Ebert didn't have to like it. But you know, we can argue about something. And then afterwards it's like, okay, let's go do karaoke now. You know, it's not, it's not, it's, it's not a recommend show. We want to pick three movies and we want to discuss them. Yeah. And you don't have to like it. Even if we don't like the movie, if there's an interesting, if there's an interesting point of discussion about it, well, that's good. That's all, that's all we need. We just need an interest. We need an interesting conversation.

It's not about we recommend you watch this movie. Personally, I don't care if anybody watches any of the movies that we talk about. I want them to listen to the show and enjoy our back and forth. And get to understand how you appreciate movies. Yeah, if you want to go out and check the movies out afterwards, fine, go ahead.

But I don't care if you do or not. And we have a really dedicated group of people who have come and they've signed up and they like, like I really, what's funny is I really care about these people now. It's like they're there and they're like in the club. It's like a clubhouse. And the people who want to be there want to be there and they're talking and they're talking. They're on a message board with Quentin and you know Eli is Eli Roth is there and Edgar Wright and like everybody is like and so it's a we wanted to create a something that was like video archives and that people could come in and talk and I want at least one of the three

movies not every week but at least I want it they're not easy to find I want to come up with like well that's not streaming anywhere. How am I supposed to get this? Well, it's on VHS, you know? Get a VHS recorder and buy it on eBay. And now all of a sudden that little group is like, maybe we can buy, hey, maybe if we buy VHS and then we can, we'll burn it

and we can trade it with everybody else. And now they're all doing the work to do that. Well, good. My daughter Gala is one of our producers on the show, and she's on the show with us. And one of her things is like, we get together and we watch the movies at video archives, and then we know the films,

and then she has to, she doesn't have that access. She doesn't have that access, she's not there with us. She's like, she represents one of our one of the people out there she's got to find it. So if Quentin finds something that's you know pretty difficult to find she's got to track it down and she usually has a little timetable to do it on and she kind of is doing her proof of concept on you can get these you can find these she'll find it on VHS. She explains how she tracked it down and you can follow her her guide. If it's on YouTube, she'll tell you it's on YouTube.

However, when she goes, Quentin, I just couldn't track this one down. I'm like, yes! Yeah. Ha ha ha ha! I think that's the real reason he likes to do the show. Ha ha ha! That's right!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eat shit, yeah! Gotcha! Gotcha! Gotcha! Is everything, is everything on YouTube now a lot of things a lot of things a lot of things a lot of things Yeah, there's some certain things you can't find on YouTube still and if it's up there and it's not there It'll be up again somewhere. It's like whack-a-mole There was the Gore Vidal film the the transsexual movie with Raquel Welch. Oh, we watched that. We didn't do an episode on it, but I have the video of that. We watched it.

I have the Myra Breckinridge. I like that movie. It's a crazy movie. Well, when she fucks the guy in the ass, that's the best fucking scene. When she fucks the guy in the ass, that is the best fucking scene. It's pretty wild. I liked that movie so much, I read the book afterwards because I thought it was like so cool. Okay, I never liked Rex Reed and I am not gay but I was actually like wow Rex Reed's

kind of hot in this. Well that's what he was trying to do. He did it. That was the whole movie. He did it. Gore Vidal was trying to turn you gay. Can you give me that lighter? Yeah, you should.

That's one of those weird ones that's difficult to find. I had to buy a DVD to get it. Can you give me that lighter? Yeah, you should. That's one of those weird ones that's difficult to find. I had to buy a DVD to get it. Well, I like that light she has that keeps building up to it. She goes, what's she actually going to finally show her pussy? She goes, well, it looks like the moment of truth has finally arrived. I think Raquel was just fantastic in that movie. Finally arrived I think Raquel was just fantastic in that movie. Did you ever see those debates that Gore Vidal did with William F. Buck? Yeah, yeah incredible. Yeah, but this is you know you used to know it all always won though. Oh, yeah Well, he was just he was right and he was better. Yeah, he's right. He's better

Yeah, he's right. You have Gore Vidal fighting with fucking Norman Mailer. Yeah. What were they fighting about? Oh, no, just they'd get on the, they'd get them on like the Dick Cavett show together. He would talk to him like a poncy bastard and the other one would talk to him like a nanny anthrax. I'm sure they had dinner afterwards. Well, just you used to be able to have those kind of conversations on television, which

is really fascinating. Yeah. It's like now they exist in podcasts, you know, and like the Siskel and Ebert thing what I was talking about is like, you can't manufacture a friendship. Yeah, yeah. And you can't manufacture a real interest. You can't be a guy who was a local news reporter who auditioned for the role of the guy who reviews movies.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's like this thing that you guys have is what, this is the whole new media movement is based on authenticity, right? And this is like the whole thing that you want people to not be able to find these movies. You want to just review movies that you wanna review

and that's the beautiful thing about it. It's like the perfect show in that regard. Like for a film review show or a film discussion show it's the perfect show. And also when a customer used to come into the store they had basically three requirements. I want something that's new that was always the first one, that's good, that I haven't seen yet and I was like well if it's if you haven't seen it yet it's new to you so that takes care of two of those and no we don't have that new one But let's show you something interesting and so it was always a matter of

you know, well the thing is one of the things that like and There's a lot of movie There's a lot of movie shows out there on the podcast and they talk about seven though the idea isn't for me to just say oh We're better than all those guys. We're not coming from that that place, but I'll tell you what bugs me About a lot of the other Shows is the fact that the people are sincere. They're completely sincere, but sure Their film knowledge is fucking abysmal. They really don't know what the fuck they're talking about and And especially when they're trying to talk about movies from like the 70s or

something well they they were usually born in the 80s so they don't know what something was like when it opened up and they don't really have any context they don't they definitely don't have context that's what they don't have they don't have context they just know whatever they've learned along the way and so they just yank stuff out of their ass and just and and say stuff that's just wrong a lot They just miss information a lot. We actually fact-check our shit You know, we we record it All right to make sure that we just don't yank shit out of it

And we do there is a little bit of yanking stuff out of your ass But when I'm not sure about it, we look it up and then if I'm wrong, then we change it Well, then also there's the fact that you can count on what we're saying that we're telling you the truth fucking shit we're giving you I consider it as I consider it as a film expert that that I would be I My shit my show wouldn't be worth listening to if I don't give if I don't tell you the truth, right? I don't give you factual information that you can count on Well, so because you were there during the opening of the film and you know, we're just right because we were yeah Yeah, we have the context to talk about a lot of these people

They maybe didn't see these movies and in theaters and the thing is, you know, it's like, you know, my my Writing guru as far as like film writing, but I think writing in general was the New Yorker film critic Pauline Cale and she had one one rule and I one rule for a For film criticism and I think this could apply to all writing You have to give the reader a compelling reason to read your writing. It's that fucking simple. It's that there has to be a compelling reason for you to engage in reading analysis. And the same thing about talking about cinema. You have to give a compelling reason. Now yeah, I like the guys.

That's a good start. I like their personality I think they're kind of funny. That's a that's a good start, but there has to be something more than that. Mm-hmm Well, that's what's more than that what you just did this passion for it, right? That's what's more than that It's just this like severe commitment to it That's that's what's exciting and then when we talk about the movies and we talk about everything that's good about them, we talk about the things that aren't good. Right. Honest. Yeah, very honest. And I can be wrong. I don't have to be right about it. You might be wrong about the Joker. I'm not sure.

It's audacious. It's audacious. Because you haven't even seen it. You're just jumping on a fucking bandwagon. I'm just talking shit. I'm just trying to wind you up. I'm just talking shit. Talking shit. I'm just trying to wind you up. Talking shit. I'm just trying to wind you up, sorry. What's an example of a film that you love that other people hate, other than The Joker?

I don't know if I loved it, but I liked it a lot. I have a ton of those. As a matter of fact, I have so many. When I was younger, particularly, I was the champion of the movie that all the critics put down and said was the fiasco. I wanted to defend it. Is it because you're contrarian? Can I guess? Yeah. Is it Ishtar? Well, I can guess yeah? Yeah, is it ishtar? Well?

You like this star. I want 1941 he was like one of the champions of his star champion It's our champion 19 pushing that tape on so many customers How many of them came back angry? It's a funny movie is it really well the problem with isar, and we were talking about this a little bit earlier, the problem with Ishtar is that it suddenly became not about the movie, but about the production. And so people had formed an opinion about whether they liked it or not. Because it was expensive. It doesn't change your ticket price.

No, but that is the kiss of death. If you feel like a film is over budgeted. Especially comedies. It's like critics have a thing about spending a lot of money on comedies. It seems obscene to them. What happened with this film? Where did the budget go south? Where the budget kind of went south for the most part was the fact that Warren like, Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman kind

of like had their full freight on the movie. So Dustin Hoffman got his high big salary, Warren Beatty got his high big salary, and so now... And all the accoutrements that go with it. And everything that goes with it. Right. I need a plane to fly me back from Morocco to New York every weekend. Oh, really?

I'm sure. No, no, he's just making that up. I'm making that up, but that's not unrealistic. That's not unrealistic. It would be like if when they did, during the time when they did Ishar, Tom Hanks was famous, but he wasn't the superstar that he is now.

Right. All right, so if that had starred Tom Hanks and Peter Scolari, like the two guys from Buzz and Buddies, well then that movie would have been, it would have cost a lot less and would have been just as funny Those guys were terrific together and they would have been really good in that role and the film would have been seen for what it is Yeah, mmm

But when a film does get labeled as a bloated film though that that's that is the kiss of death It kind of is the general public will turn on it then Yeah, they want to fail You generally you give those movies a couple of years and something they're like these amazing movies They're like, oh my well water worlds a pretty fun film. Shut the fuck up I kind of have a great time watching what water world was the first laserdisc I ever bought That in days is wonder. I bought something you can't defend Kevin Costner's the postman. I never saw the postman. I like the idea of The Postman. I remember the screenplay for The Postman was great.

I never saw The Postman, but I actually like Kevin Costner. I love Kevin Costner. I think Dancing with the Woods is one of the best movies made in my lifetime. Kevin Costner is fucking awesome. I love that dude. But you're right about The Postman. It's hard to defend. I'm not saying he's right about it because I've never seen it. But now that says something that I've never seen it, but I wouldn't mind seeing it. I'll bet y'all like it, but then there's films that are so bad They're great like showgirls. I'd love showgirls showgirls

Showgirls there's nothing wrong with showgirls. I can do that as an entertainment piece I look I am NOT as so bad as good guy, okay? I'm not a so bad as sex scene in the pool that's a little ridiculous but yes the sexy in the pool is a little ridiculous but actually it's going for a Hollywood movie that's it's it's it's it's going there was actually interesting but what I really like what I really liked her in it but when she beats the shit out of that guy that's so fucking cool when she beats the shit out of that guy, that's so fucking cool. When she beats the shit out of the guy at the end, the guy who fucked over her girlfriend and beat up his girlfriend, and then she does these spinning roundhouse kicks and beats

the fucking shit out of the guy, I was like, yeah, Elizabeth Berkeley, go! What I love about Showgirls is normally a movie like Showgirls would be made for under a million, go straight to video, star Robert Davi, and just be this little exploitation movie. And here was an example of that being made for 60 million dollars with Paul Verhoeven directing. Doing whatever the fuck he wants. Doing whatever he wants, making it as big as possible. And we're releasing it, NC-17. Fuck you all! It's basically the same as one of those sub-million dollar exploitation films.

It still has Robert Davi in it. He's still playing the same part he would normally play. And so it's this opportunity to see one of those weird little, you know, exploitation movies made in this grand fashion, in this huge fashion. It's exciting. Showgirls doesn't sit on a special shelf in my heart. All right. But I really liked it when I saw it.

I saw it at the theaters. I enjoyed it. I love when Elizabeth Berle pushes Gina Gerson down the stairs. Is it Gina Gerson? She pushes down the stairs. Yeah, yeah. Like, everything about that movie is awesome. I think it's great.

I love the film. I love the film. I love the film. I brought it up to all the, I had a dinner once with like Verhoeven and a bunch of the producers that film. I started going off on it. They all sat there at the dinner watching me go crazy over their film.

And then at the end of it, somebody, one of the producers said, well, yeah, that's all nice to hear. But really that movie was just about us doing a lot of cocaine. That's exactly what I was just gonna say. I'm so glad you just said that, because I always described that movie as a cocaine movie, and I was just casting aspersions with no evidence.

But it seems like a cocaine movie. Because it seems like they thought it was great while they were doing it, but it's like, what are you doing? You know, it's one of those things where you think it's great because you're on Coke. I have a place in my heart for those big movies like that. Like I said, that's not the one I would make my case on, but I still don't like it. That's not my case. That's not my chest case. Isn't that sort of an example of what happened when the 80s were cocaine culture?

The world kind of shifted from a psychedelic thing from the 60s and 70s to a cocaine thing in the 80s, and you get movies like that. Yeah, you get a little bit more edgy, a little less trippy. Well, also like a little more ridiculous. But see, look at how great- See, the beginning, it's pretty good. This is pretty good. That's what I call an actress dedicated to her role. No, this is where you're losing me. This is where you're losing me. Because how are you

keeping a heart on? Yeah, and that it's Kyle McLaughlin of all people. Okay, but just watching Elisabeth Berkley's tits, alright, in a big studio movie like this, flopping up and down, like I'm getting my money's worth. Well, that was huge. Because it was from Saved by the Bell. Yeah, but I'm not, actually, I'm not thinking about it from his point of view. I'm thinking about it from the water hitting her face.

I'm thinking from her point of view, that's I'm not thinking about it from his point of view. I'm thinking about from the water hitting her face I'm looking from her point of view. That's that's the that's the unrealistic That true true Cocaine movies are fun though. There's there's a quite a few of those that were just like what is this? Yeah Like how much coke was going around the 80s a lot a lot When you can it was actually coke it was actually real cocaine. It was like proper cocaine. There was, you know, there was this, I mean, it's actually really interesting because it's like one of those things where... Remember that customer who used to come in and he would

bring in like a rock of cocaine? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Drop it on the counter, like a rock of cocaine. And you get boys here. guy with the name was Tuttle. The size of a, yeah, Tuttle. Tuttle, Tuttle. The size of a coffee mug. And he would bring us these things. He was a cocaine dealer, and the thing is he would rent, you know, we'd let him take the movies out

and come back whenever he wanted. Whenever you want. Yeah. And he would come in and he'd get his films, and then he would like either open up a little like a Skull can't yeah, can yeah, all right Have fun Bam I throw it on the counter to bounce

Like a baseball like a baseball and it bounce off of you. There you go, boy. See you later. See you in two weeks. Like a baseball. Like a baseball and you take a colander and it just grind it up. Okay, who wants some? Pure Coke. For the first time, because we're minimum wage kids, for the first time, we actually had... Fuck you, Coke. We actually had access to Coke in a way that we could never afford. Like for about a few months, because those relationships don't last that long. No, no, no. Cocaine relationships never last.

But for a few months, we were like, holy shit, we're in the fucking, we're in the powder. Well, there was a party once that he came to, and he brought again a rock of cocaine and a live hand grenade. He put them both down. They usually go together. Yeah, and it was like, okay of cocaine and a live hand grenade. You put them both down. They usually go together. Yeah. And it was like, OK, it's a dangerous combination. There's a lot of coke. Usually, it's a fun party.

And his name was Tuttle. And we always describe the excess as Tuttle. OK, we're going to get it. We're going to a total situation. I'm so totaled. Oh, that's hilarious. It became like your Figezi. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. When I worked at in Boston and Nick's comedy stop They would offer to pay you in cocaine or cash

There's guys who just took the cocaine certain comics they just wanted to get paid in coke Yeah wild times you know that's the 80s it was the 80s That was actually even kind of an interesting situation cuz like It was also one of those things were like I was actually really kind of proud of us cuz we all kind of like whoo We all kind of went nutty for like a little bit With this kind of like more access to coke than we normally have would have more access to coke than we ever had You know and like because we can't afford that shit. All right access to coke than we normally would have. More access to coke than we ever had. Ever had, ever had. Yeah, you know, like,

cause we can't afford that shit. All right. And so we all kind of went nuts for like a little bit about it. And then we all kind of like, okay, let's. Yeah, enough of that. Let's bring it together. Well, that's great.

Let's bring it together. You can figure that out. And we also saw some other people who were like, who let it get the best of them. Yes. And they got really kind of- Like your friend with the story about being bitter. It's the same sort of thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The same sort of thing. You go, oh, I know where this is going. And so we all like, okay, let's pull back. Let's get control of this. And then we all did. Yeah. We all collectively, we all kind of just got our shit together and put it in the rear mirror.

Right. Right. That mean we didn't do it, but we just it was we controlled it. Contrary to your goals. We'll stay with pot. We'll stay with pot. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah. When I was growing up, a bunch of people that I knew got hooked on Coke and that's what kept me from ever doing coke I would stop. I mean I had children and Suddenly it was like oh my god, like I have to be on call 24 7, right? You can't be out like coked up. Yeah, I like that that's not gonna last anymore It gets in the way of it gets in the way mushroom trip and pretty soon my Saturday mornings became more important than my Friday nights Mm-hmm pretty simple. Yeah, my thing about priorities was I

Wanted to have excess or I didn't oh, I wasn't that interested in it. Yeah, you want to take it to 12 No, I love it and we're doing it all fucking night. Yeah, this is gone Until this until the straw is bloody Okay, I'm stopping now because the straw is bloody. Yeah. Okay, I'm stopping now because the straw got bloody. I think it's like some people don't have the ability to only do that once. Like for whatever reason, some people they have that thing and they do coke a little bit then they just want to keep doing coke. Yeah.

That's scary when that happens. It is scary. That's scary when that happens. Because you're captured by a demon. Yeah. And it's literally, and I think it's literally a demon that captures you. No, I think.

In the classic Jinn sense of the word, where it's whispering into your ear. Well, in a sense, it does all the things a demon would do. You could say the demons aren't real. OK, but if the actual of, they might be real. Look, they've been around for a while. I think there's pretty good evidence. There's a lot of legitimate evil in the... Legitimate evil in the world.

And where is that coming from? What's that energy? Like what begets that? What is the reason why people are willing to, you know, mass murder? Like what is it? What is it? People willing to launch missiles in the cities. What is that?

Where is that coming from? There's got to be... That would be evil if you defined it in the classic sense of the word, you know when a Invading army comes into a village and hacks people that's not demonic. That's not evil You're lighting children on fire and throwing them on thatched roofs. That's not demonic Seems pretty demonic like a demon would do that whether the the physical demon exists is almost like not even important Yeah, it's like demonic behavior is 100% documented.

What would Jesus do? Yeah. Right. Right. Just ask yourself that. But it's a thing. It's unlikely he's going to raise a fist. Everybody wants to be smart and you want to be secular and you never want to say that

you believe in something that's superstitious or ridiculous. So you don't believe in religion, you're either agnostic or you're atheist, that's how you get respect. And it's like this weird thing where you're not willing to consider, like, okay, but what are the actions? What are the actions of good and the actions of evil? Those are the actions are real, right? And we all know in our heart and our soul, when you do a good thing, how you feel, versus when you do a bad thing, how you feel. Like, so what is is what are those forces apocalypse now when uh

Brando's kurt tells the story of uh going into the village and inoculating All right, uh all the children in the village shooting their arms with uh, uh, uh, uh, um You know flu shots or something like that, you're inoculating them. And then the soldiers came in and then hacked off all the kids' arms. And then there's like a little pile of arms. And Kurt says, you know, so we did all that, and then we came back in the village the next day and we saw the little pile of all the little arms in there where they hacked them off.

And I cried like a baby. Then I started thinking, the genius of that, the genius of that, because these are not monsters, they're not demons, these are men doing a job and and they had the force of will to take the job and and take it to its logical conclusion of what they had to do all right yeah I'm not condoning I'm not condoning what Kurtz is saying Kurtz is fucking crazy person all right you know but I'm interested in his perspective. But of course that would be Kurtz's perspective. He's speaking about true power.

Where he's a god. He's a god, you know, worshipped by these natives. He's clearly lost his fucking mind in the fog of war. He's completely lost his mind in the fog of war. But he's talking like Genghis Khan. Yes, exactly. Like they all talk. But this is the thing where you're suspicious of power, right? Like why you suspicious? Well, you should be because you see where it ultimately leads it ultimately leads to a Kurtz or it ultimately leads to

The way to really be in control of people like you have to use violence You can only use words so long strong men hold civilizations together That's just a fact of things. Both of us have become friends over the years with John Milius. Yeah. Who wrote Apocalypse Now? Who wrote Apocalypse Now. And you know, John is the kind of guy who's like, you know, conquerors, conquerors, you know, and he wrote a script about Genghis Khan. And you worked on it. Yeah, that I worked on with him to help turn it into a series. My daughter and I helped him with it after he had a stroke.

And you know, you look at his Genghis Khan script and he's realistically talking about these horrific atrocities that just, you know, sewing people up in felt and lighting it on fire and throwing them in river, just however you can kill somebody, he figured out a way to do it better. And, but at the same time, you know, he invented paper money and he invented the Silk Road and he, you know, pulled, you know, that whole region of the world together under one empire and, you know, over the course of it, you know, that whole region of the world together under one empire, and, you know, over the course of it, you know, you start out as, you know, almost like Conan, Conan the warrior,

Conan the conqueror, Conan the king. Eventually, you're- King by his own hand. Yeah, a king by your own hand. And eventually, you start realizing- And John Milles also wrote and directed Conan the Barbarian. And so he rightly recognizes that it's strong men who conquer, but also who hold together and maintain order. And there's a balance to be had between force and strength and you know and compassion as well. Too much compassion, you know, countries fall apart. Too much introspection, countries fall apart. Right, and when things are too good.

When things are too good. Things are too easy and you think they're supposed to be easy and you don't understand how they became easy and what keeps them easy. Yeah. Yeah, and that's kind of where we are right now. It's weird times right now. As that we are, we're in a Conan movie.

Well, it does feel a little, like we're in kind of neo-feudalistic times where there's highwaymen and that you have to contend with when you go out and everything's a little more fragile. Well, there's also this new thing, which is the internet and social media. And there's this new thing that has overcome our minds. And it's affecting everyone in this very bizarre way, and it's making people more tribal and more inclined towards echo chambers, more antagonistic against opposing beliefs and views. So you were saying about like being able to sit and have a conversation with someone and completely disagree, but

not take it personally, just disagree about the points. We've lost that in our society. It's really important to be able to engage with other people, to disagree with them, and then to know that that's just that. We can still have dinner together. We can still be friends. I can, okay, so I go on a show and I said that I like Joker 2. Well, I say I like Joker 2, and now there's 150 articles that come out on all these cannibalized articles. One person listens to the thing and writes an article about it and then there's 150 ripoff articles on that. And then you read the comments of someone, man, who's a fucking asshole, that movie's fucking suck, man, he's a fucking asshole for saying that.

Why am I a fucking asshole? I like the fucking movie. That am I a fucking asshole? That makes me a fucking asshole, it's crazy you either like the movie you you don't all right, and I'm not I'm not plugging the movie I'm not I'm not saying I'm not doing anything all right. I'm just saying I like it Who gives a fuck what I like right? What do you care what the fuck? I like right and also Then I'll say I didn't see something Who's a fucking asshole? Right and also it also but then I'll say I didn't see something But there's no one in front of him to say that he's an idiot alone with his phone If he just said it out loud amongst reasonable people they would turn to what the fuck are you talking about? But he doesn't get that check which is also part of the problem with social media

Well, I think he's fucking missing out Well, I'm sure there's a lot of shit I can say that you're missing out on and I don't care if you miss out So I you have to be missing out. Otherwise, you don't have a life. Yeah, how much information do you think you can absorb in a day? How much things you watch and listen to? movies a day apparently A lot of time man you have to miss out. There's gonna be shit you miss out on Well, the other thing is if you're a film fan today, you're not just dealing with today's films. You're dealing with this insane

Archive that goes back to Rocky. Yeah, you know goes back to you know on the waterfront goes back to Rocky. Yeah. It goes back to, on the waterfront. It goes back to the 20s. Good Lord. Yeah. There's so many films to watch. No, no, no. A film that I saw that was very meaningful to me this year is, I really like the story of Beau Jess, the French Foreign Legion story.

I like French Foreign Legion movies, any old way. But that's a really cool story, and I really like the whole story of the three brothers in there. And, you know, I was familiar with the Gary Cooper version, the 1939 version, put it on a stamp. But I'd never seen the silent version. And it was starring Ronald Coleman. And I watched the silent version recently, and I was blown away by it. The storytelling was so epic and was so visually just beautiful. And we have a little micro cinema in the theater I have, one of the theaters I have in Los Angeles, the Vista.

And it's like a little 20 seat cinema that we just show VHS and 16 millimeter. It's our video archives. Yeah, it's like video archives, the Video Archives Cinema Club. And it's like, literally, it's like the brick and mortar version of video archives, but just like, but like a little Paris back out, back Avenue. It's like literally it's like the brick and mortar version of video archives but just like but like a little Paris back out back Avenue it's

like a little clubhouse I mean it's open to everybody but for our core fans and the thing is and we we showed last week we showed the the silent version of Bo Jest in it and and I wasn't there at that screening but I asked the guy who was our manager they're mad I go I said how did it go he Quinn, you would have really loved to have been there for that screening. And I go, well, what? He goes, it was so moving. The end of it. And it is really moving. And it's just like nobody was talking.

It was just it was emotional. You could hear a pin drop and then was over. And everyone was still kind of in this collective emotional state. And they just all kind of left the theater and they just seen something emotional and they all kind of just moved out into the lobby and in this emotional state and it was like that sounds fucking fantastic. That's amazing. I mean I think one of the most magical things about movies is that it can speak to you at different times of your life, you know, at

the different windows of opportunity in your life. So you might see a movie and not like it and then, you know, people might see Joker 2 today and not really care for it and then five years from now revisit it and watch it again and you're in a different place, culture is in a different place, everything's in a different place, and you have a different perspective on the movie and maybe you like the movie. I hated Blade Runner when it first came out. Did not like the film. I thought it was awful.

Really? Awful. Like boring, like muddled, like everything that was wrong. Suddenly I'm seeing Kubrick shots in the end from The Shining. Roger would say, Blade Runner should be called Blade Crawler.

No, I was really hard. I was really hard on movies. Like Roger would say, she's been called Blade crawler No, I was really hard. I was really hard on movies. I was a really angry young guy Such a prick about shit. He's a completely different guy Now he's like beds over backwards to be nice about somebody who the fuck is this? Humble by life well, I now look at look at having you know been a filmmaker and you know and knowing the struggle that goes in to getting something on screen. Look I know how hard it is sometimes to get what you have up here on onto screen and doesn't always work and sometimes you're faking it by the time it gets to the cut. But you know, it's

not an easy thing to it's not. So when I watch a movie now, I'm applying my life experience to it. And I'm like, Okay, this movie may not be the greatest movie, but this is somebody's, you know, vision. Yeah, and I'm going to give that, you know, I'm going to value that and give myself to it and try to find in it what I like about it. And so I always give every movie a shake, you know, a good shake. What's happened with our show that I think is really cool again for the fans that follow it and everything is in our first season, we ended up like covering about 70 movies altogether. And we mentioned a zillion movies in the course of a show,

but we covered about 70 movies altogether between the three movies that we did over the course of like 26 episodes. And we kind of created new classics, at least amongst the people who followed the show, because they followed it and they liked it and they, you know, watched some old Mexican horror movie like Demonite. Hey, that was pretty cool.

Demonite is amazing. And then everybody would put it down. If you tried to look at anything about it, it would all be shitty reviews about it and everything. But then we talked about it with passion and then we gave the right context in which to appreciate the movie. It's a killer hand movie. And we gave the right context in which to appreciate the movie as a killer hand movie And we gave the right context in which to appreciate the movie and then the people appreciated it under that right context like because the movie is old and because maybe they didn't have the money to do it like Super clean or perfect. Yeah, actually that actually has the most best hand effects

Well, yeah, that movie in particular is actually a tough one to because it's is this demon killer hand on the loose movie it's a mexico exploitation movie okay with a mexican exploitation movie but the one that's great about it won't she's fantastic and it's Samantha Egger Smith Egger's become one of our heroes. I love Samantha Egger. This movie looks hilarious. But what's really cool about the Mexican horror genre is they take their tacky horror very seriously. It's tacky horror, but they take it really seriously. And you appreciate the seriousness that they're delivering their payload with. And I know how hard it is to do some of the things that they're doing. This is like, it's pre-computer graphics.

They have a limited budget. But their vision is so big. And you're watching it, you're like, oh my God, this is, if you just, just like if you try not to judge it on what a movie looks like today no but not only just that what's interesting is when you see some of the effects that there's a couple of the effects well how did they do that yeah because it's all done practical and then some of it it's like oh well I can see how they did that oh my god that's so fucking clever they figure it out how to do it in such a clever way I can see how they did it but that's so fucking clever. They figure it out how to do it in such a clever way. I can see how they did it, but that's so neat

because they just figure it out how to do it on camera in a way that sells it. Yeah. And it's a crazy movie also. That is crazy. It's like you're inside of some sort of crazy Mexican's head making a horror movie. It's fantastic.

Well, the horror genre is hard to do to not make ridiculous. Yeah.'s fantastic. Well, the horror genre is hard to do to not make ridiculous. Yeah. Although the best thing about the horror genre and science fiction is that they're the best vehicles to kind of study culture and sociological issues because you have that abstraction layer that makes people think, oh, I'm just watching a science fiction film or I'm just watching a horror movie. Right. Like you watch Dawn of the Dead and yeah, you're watching a movie about zombies in a shopping mall or are just watching a science fiction film or I'm just watching a horror movie Right like you watch dawn of the dead and yeah You're watching a movie about zombies in a shopping mall Or are you watching a movie about the vanishing middle class being drawn to the consumer temple because it's what they remembered from their lives

That was an important place to them like literally quoting the movie I'm actually quoting my liner notes that I wrote for the DVD way back when? Let me go to the bathroom. Okay, the coffee is making me take a pill. No worries go for it liner notes that I wrote for the DVD way back when The coffee is making me take a go no worries go for it we can keep going okay, so when you First got into this like did you have? Like a film that you aspired to create something like like when you first did you say say, you know, like, comedians would be like,

I wanna be the next Eddie Murphy. Yeah, it was a composite, it was a composite. I have like, kind of a top three filmmaker, you know, when you're a young filmmaker, and when you're a young child, you look to your parents to learn how to behave. You know, you're a child, and you look to them, and you're like, they teach you how to be. And so, at the beginning of your life, you're a child and you look to them and you're like, they teach you how to be. And so at the beginning of your life, you're copying your parents.

And because that's who you love and that's what you're copying. When you're a young filmmaker, very frequently you kind of copy your parents, your cinematic parents. And so in my case, you know, in many filmmakers, like for instance, Stanley Kubrick, who is one of my favorite filmmakers, who I'm always thinking about his zero point perspective, his reverse tracking shots. I just love the intention of his shots and how he assembles his movies. I like everything about his work.

I do too. Kubrick. Huge fan. I like I like everything about his work Kubrick huge fan He like if you love Fritz Lang you can see that Oh Kubrick was that's how he felt about Fritz Lang Like when I watch M. I can see the Kubrick shots this Fritz Lang metropolis. Yeah, he did metropolis He did I mean like some of the greatest metropolis is wild Metropolis is a super super powerful and kind of important movie that's exactly you were talking about everything that's going on today that people should see the movie I was thinking about was M which is his movie with Peter Laurie about the pedophile who's and the movie's made in just just before the Nazis took power

Oh, wow, and so he's making a movie that's really about like kind of the rise of the rise of Hitlerian fascism in Europe, but he's doing it through this movie about a pedophile and it's it's Peter and Peter Laurie is fantastic and it's actually his first sound movie like Fritz Lang hadn't made a sound movie And so every single shot in the film is based on sound So he'll have shadows talking and the backs of people's heads talking or even the device of the movie is Peter Laurie whistling pure giant, you know That becomes like the device by which they find the killer.

And so the whole movie is about sound. So as a young filmmaker, if you want to learn how to use sound in a movie, that's the movie to see. Because every single shot, like it used to be, you would show an empty frame and it would just be a shot of nothing. But now Fritz Lang is able to juxtapose like a woman has lost her daughter she's calling for her daughter and so she's looking for her daughter and she's looking for her and

Elsa Elsa and they cut to an empty shot of a stairwell and you hear her Elsa and they cut to like you know an empty playground Elsa and then you see the balloon that she was carrying trapped in something like whipping in the wind Elsa and it's super super intense it and but all he's doing is he's using sound juxtaposed with images which he couldn't do before crazy they just called it M yeah M for murderer and this is And this is an amazing, amazing movie. So Kubrick, see that's a Kubrickian shot. This is where he's, Elsa? Or Elsie? Elsie! I seem to remember more Elsies.

But I think I got the wrong part. It's OK. But anyhow, this is but so so Kubrick had his forefathers who he used to watch and that he used to look to. And so those would be like my grandparents in a way. And so there's this like lineage of cinematic grammar and vernacular that gets carried on from filmmaker to filmmaker. And eventually after you've made enough films, you start walking on your own, you start coming up with new ideas. But for me, it was Stanley Kubrick, John Borman.

He's the guy who directed Excalibur, and Hope and Glory, and Point Blank, and Hell in the Pacific. I mean, a number of movies. I don't think Quentin's such a big fan of John Borman, but some of his films. I think you're a fan of his writing more than you are his films. No, I have nothing but respect for John.

Yeah, and John Borman and then Roman Plansky. I think those three guys for me and their work, not the guys, but mostly their work. Like, I am a composite. If you watch my movies, I'm a composite of those guys and other people as well. And those are the filmmakers who are important to me. Those were my parents, so to speak. Kubrick was such an odd one. Like his films are so different. And he was a weird guy too. He did like complex mathematics in his spare time. I do complex mathematics.

Nothing wrong with that. No. Yeah, he's a weird guy, but he was also, I think, thinking three steps ahead of everybody at any kind of given moment. I mean, I mean, to be honest, I was just thinking, I just pulled my script from Eyes Wide Shut. I had a script that was from set and I was reading it over the weekend and I saw that, um, uh, it has this has this I mean I've known this for a long time but I started really thinking about her over the weekend it's missing a narration it's missing a third-person narration that was originally in in the

movie that's because the movie was recut and and changed after his death and and they'll and they will deny it but as a student of Kubrick, I'm watching the movie and I'm like Kubrick wouldn't do that Kubrick wouldn't do that either Kubrick would have trimmed this scene. I didn't know they recut it after his death Okay, so apparently they finished it. Well, that's the that's the party line That's the party line, but I think that they changed the notes, the close-ups, the inserts of the notes. I think those are changed. It's missing a narration.

It's definitely missing a narration, a third-person narration. That scene where he sees the prostitute who's died, he's at the morgue and he's looking at her and he's leaning over her, it's a bed for narration. There's this whole thing. What they do instead, because they couldn't say that Kubrick finished the movie because they hadn't done the recording of the narrator yet. And so maybe they just kind of clutched it together. Except there's an entire thread that's kind of been squashed

in that film. And that's the two men that are throughout the movie that are constantly in the background of the film who eventually in the final shots of the film you see like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in that final scene in the toy store when she's looking at the Rosemary's baby Bessonette which is totally Kubrick saying something and they never take their eyes off their daughter Until the moment they take their eyes off and the final line of the movie is coming up you see those two guys walking off with the daughter mmm they're taking her away they've given their daughter to the pedo cult that's

what's happened at the end of the movie and there's an incident where when they first screened the movie in England people who were outside a parent this is all secondhand by the way there are people who are outside the theater who could hear inside the theater Kubrick yelling at all the executives and saying it's my movie you can't cut it I do can't fucking cut my film blah blah blah blah big argument going on then he dies like four days later. So somebody went in and finished the movie

but I think when they finished the movie they hid the film the the movie got changed into something else And I would love to finish that film. I like I'm like Have you ever made an attempt? I've thought about it and Reading the script over the weekend. I started seriously thinking about it about it well somebody should recut this or somebody should so it just be a matter of recutting it with narration well yes and no there's obviously missing there would be missing footage now there's things have been removed and is that accessible

no not unless you crack it open and there's no way anybody thing they would never but hold on here's the thing. Now we have AI. Well, I know that's, yeah. You, you, you, you're one step ahead of me. I I've actually been experimenting a lot with, uh, with AI. The newer versions are pretty stunning. I've been working on runway lately, which is, uh, the curve is insane. Like the exponential curve of improvement. I'm literally, as I'm working on things, I'll be talking to the guys and I'll be saying, well, it'd be nice to be able to move the camera.

OK, we got that tool on Tuesday. We're going to give that to you. And so it's like literally, whatever you think you can't do, ask us, because we probably will be able to do it in a couple of days. And so it's advancing so fast and so rapidly that I, without telling you, Quentin, I made a little claymation version of you Have them talking and kind of funny looking

It would be funny It's a claymation version of both you and me How bizarre that something that would have cost like hundreds of millions of dollars Like if you wanted to do a film like a pixel type, you know One of those crazy movies where you have all this like insane animation that shit took forever Best work that I've seen of it lately was the first time I've been kind of ignoring AI and like I know what it is It's like form completion with visuals and I get it. I understand what it is and we'll see we'll see but I like tactile I like tech and I do but I worked on Beowulf I made Beowulf with Robert Zemeckis okay and like that was a big you know video puppeteer CGI thing my original plan for that movie because I

was gonna direct it myself was to make it leak you know in Iceland you know under ten million dollars you know just really dirty I was going to direct it myself was to make it like, you know, in Iceland, you know, under $10 million, you know, just really dirty. I wanted it to be like, you know, like an early Terry Gilliam film like Jabberwock. That was actually the one Neil and I were thinking about when Neil Gaiman when my co writer on that film and movie ended up getting made much bigger. It turned, suddenly it was like whatever budget I had was probably our craft service budget. It's nothing like making a hundred million dollar movie.

It's like sushi every day, champagne, fly the plane to England, you know, go to whatever you want. It's like, it's crazy, but that was definitely not the movie I had planned on making. However, um, when we made it like, and it turned into this big performance capture thing, it was fun. Like working with Zemmickus and, and he's such a, like, an excited bull, like creative genius genius. Like, he's... And even before you were able to do stuff

like what he was doing in that film, he was, like, constantly taking, you know, like, when he made contact, oh, we'll take that eyebrow off of Jodie Foster. And I like that eyebrow thing she does, and so put that on this take. And so he was, like, messing with her face and doing all sorts of performance stuff.

Whoa. And even when you go back to his earliest film, I want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand is almost a visual trick. Having the Beatles there but not be there, and even though he's not using computer graphics. I think he's just a really super inventive guy. And it was so much fun making the movie with him

because what year was that? Inventing Technologies. That was 2010 much fun making the movie with them because we were here was that inventing technologies that was? 2010 but I think we became a lot Beowulf. Let's watch some of them Well, I want to remember what it looks like it looks probably like a video game pre-cut scene at this point What's crazy, right? Like I couldn't make I've thought about taking Beowulf importing it into my system and then just Painting over it. That's fun Which let's fucking go by by the way you can do easily. Yeah.

Easily, I thought about fixing. So let me see what this looks like with the Beowulf, oh geez. Yeah, I mean it looks like a video game cut scene at this point. Yeah, but it was kind of cool because everybody looked like that, not just the monster. That was kind of cool about it.

I mean the difference is that this was actual like performances and so we could take you know Ray Winstone and have him, Ray Winstone doesn't look like that, he looks a little heftier and uh... Cuts his own fucking arm off. It's funny because our original script was much more modest than this, but then Zemeckis was like, okay, boys, it costs a million dollars a minute, do whatever you want. He stabs a dragon in the heart. Oh no. This movie is kind of a, I mean it's a little, it's an interesting experience what happened to me on this film. If you don't mind. Yeah go ahead. So

I, so I was gonna make this movie myself. I had set it up initially at Image Movers with Zemeckis producing and then it fell out and the rights kind of reverted back to me, I had to cover the turnaround on it, but the rights reverted back to me and I was gonna go make the movie myself for nothing and I was trying to set it up and it was really, I was broke at the time and I was not gonna make money and I had to cover the turnaround expenses myself

on the film, which were considerable. But I wanted to make the movie really bad. And I was working on Silent Hill, this other movie I wrote. And I suddenly started getting calls. And it was like the producer of Polar Express. This guy, Steve Bing, wanted wanted to buy the script. He's like, I want to buy it for Zemeckis. And I said, too little, too late. I'm making it now. I kept saying no and every and I was

working on this film in Canada and I'm just trying to finish it and every hour I'm getting a call from agents at CA and they're like Jack Rapdee right yeah it was actually yeah it was Jack how did you know it was Jack did I tell you that well no because he well he was he was Zemecha's agent became some extra as a that's right partner and And so I was gonna get shit done. Yeah, he is a guy get shit done Well, I was like, you know, no no no and you know, no, I won't I'm doing it myself. No, no and Steve Bing and I said if another agent calls me I'm firing the agency and they're like Will you at least meet with the producer and so I went ahead and I meet with them.

And he says, listen, if I don't make this film with Samakus, with Bob, I'm going to miss the moment. I'm going to lose the movie. It's going to be over. Just what's your price? Just tell me what's your price. And I said, I don't have a price. I don't work like that.

He said, listen, everybody's got a price. And I said, well, I may have one, but I'm not going to tell you. And he said, look, why don't you just tell me, just discourage me. So I said, OK, you want me to discourage you? And so I started making shit up. I need this. I want that.

I want this. I tried to come up with how much money had anybody ever made on a script, and let's add some money to that. I went over the top. He's, oh, well Roger, that is, and I had grown a beard to make the movie and like grew my hair long like a Viking

to learn about, you know, why Vikings had beards, et cetera, all that kind of stuff. I'm making the movie, I'm a Viking. He said, well, Roger, that is really discouraging, but we have a deal. And I was like, well, Roger, that is really discouraging, but we have a deal. And I was like, well, OK. And I start driving home, and I started like, I'd never done anything.

I'd never done something for money before. I'd always done it for passion. And then the money came. And this was the first time in my life that I had ever made a choice based on money, this titanic amount of money, and I understand broke. And I went home and I cried. And then the check came and nothing dries tears like money. And then Zemmickus invited me into the process, which was really great of him. He really wanted

me and Neil to be at his side and collaborate with him. And it was a fabulous experience. But to be honest, I was like, who am I now? What does it all mean? I just gave away something I wanted to do my entire life. I've always been chasing this John Borman film Excalibur. I think it's one of the most beautiful movies ever made about the Arthurian legends. And and if you watch Beowulf and Excalibur, they're very similar, actually, thematically. And so I was like, who am I now?

What does it all mean? You know, I don't even care. I don't even know if I want to make a movie anymore. You know, like, what do I have to tell now, now that I've just completely sold out? And then I was at a dinner, and a big dinner, and I was driving home that night and, um, I was giving, uh, somebody who was at the dinner, a lift.

My wife was in the backseat of the car and we were, um, I told my daughter, I was going to be home by midnight. We lived in Ojai and it was dark. And, um, I, I, so I was speeding. I have a lead foot. And I was speeding to get there without getting into the details of what happened. I lost control of the car.

There was another vehicle, but they led the scene. I lost control of the vehicle. I think my tire blew but I was going into a ditch and I knew I was going into it into this deep ditch because it was right near my house full of rocks and stuff I knew if I go in there will die and so I turned into the thing and then I turned away from it to try to the car spun out and I ended up on the other side of the street where I knew there was like a cow pasture and I was like well what's the worst thing that could

happen there well it was pretty bad there was a telephone pole and I hit the telephone pole my passenger took the impact and my wife was thrown from the car when I came to all I could hear was the horn you know my hearing is going to have glass in my mouth and I'm, I'm injured as well. I climb out of the car and it's dark. It's really dark. But somebody's already arrived. The XDA from Ventura County who did all the drunk driving laws and put those on the books. And he was the first person on the scene. I was right near the fire department.

They showed up shortly afterwards. But when I jumped out of the car, I came running around to see what happened. I saw my wife on the on the asphalt. She'd been thrown from the vehicle. And I threw myself onto, you know, onto my knees on the pavement, and I found myself in that moment asking for the one thing that mattered, which was just life. She looked dead, and I just, in that moment, I dug down, I begged her to come back to life. And I just said, I will give anything for life, just in any form. I'll take it. And in that moment, she came back to life. It was like the life came back into her.

OK, it was a completely fucked up scene. My other my other passenger is dying in the car or dead. The police are suddenly there. Next thing I know, I'm in jail. And suddenly, I found myself in jail. I found myself guilty of manslaughter and something that is absolutely irreversible happening, which is, you know, someone lost their life at my hand. And so after that I, you know, ended up I found myself in jail and doing time and suddenly everything that had come was gone. Like everything that I had made, gone.

It all went, you know, out. All that money you made? All that, to the settlement. I didn't even have time to spend it. Didn't even have time to register that it was there. And it was gone. Because it was like it was not real. And then you find yourself in jail

and and and suddenly everything is gone career is gone everybody stops calling it's over to number two hit films doesn't matter it's all over in fact it was right in the middle of the publicity on Beowulf it was just toward the end of it and It was It's the most horrible thing that That has ever happened to me and I

And I found myself then alone in jail Incarcerated myself then alone in jail, incarcerated, alone with my remorse and regret and really getting existential about things. Really like coming to appreciate, you You know simple existence is the best thing there is It's people don't appreciate what we have you don't appreciate it until it's gone And it is can go like first of all we live in bodies of glass. My wife was horribly injured and you know and it has been a decade to to you know, to not just rebuild our lives, but to, you know,

for her to come back to health, even, um, what it did though, you know, as, as, because I would do anything to, to reverse that, to reverse what happened. I would give anything to do it. And I don't say this lightly, but having said that, I'm kind of grateful as well, because I was like asleep walking through life. And it wasn't until that happened that I completely like it changed how I see everything. It was like my third eye opened up. I don't view anything the same way. I you know, once you you've been incarcerated and you've been deprived of everything and you have a lot of time to think and be existential, you come out

of that experience, at least I came out of that experience, and you know I looked at a tree and I was like okay that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. I hope I never not feel this way, this appreciation for a cloud. You know, to be able, like when you're imprisoned, to be able to pet a cat, for example, it's so simple. It's such a nothing thing you think. Okay, to be able to pet an animal is like a gift. The simplest things are gifts. When I was in jail, it was also a little bit like a comedy. You know, you have people walking in circles and, you know, everybody's trying to control the outside. And so you start really seeing human behavior up front. I mean, when I was in jail, you know, they're literally during the Academy Awards, it's on the TV in the

tank and I'm watching him win like for Django. So while Quentin is like at the height of things, I'm pretty much at the bottom. Watching through bars. And not only that, but Greg Greg Shapiro who produced the rules of attraction for me, my producer who came and visited me with Robin, Robin Wright in the days that followed, he won for Zero Dark Thirty. And so I'm like there like, like to be taken from one point where you feel like you're at the top and you're like, oh, you think

you're, you think you understand things. No, I'm gonna take you and put you at the bottom. But let me tell you something. In that moment I was sitting on the asphalt and my wife came back to life. I immediately knew what I had had you know about the movie and not making it it just went away it evaporated it evaporated and the ecstatic experiences and they were ecstatic that I had in jail were like I mean you see things kind of for real when you see somebody, you know get hanged by their celly in a cell Or when you see when you know that

You know, oh That El Salvadorian MS 13 hitmanman guy, he's going to kill that, that gay dude. He's going to kill him in the yard. I'll go lock myself in my cell. Literally, I'll go lock myself in. You shut the door because you know shit is going to go down. And so, like, like that was like every day. and so suddenly it was like, you know and also you really know who stands with you after something horrible happens and And like John Langley our customer from video archives ended up being like like when I like I said when I was in jail, he loaned me money and he

like when I like I said when I was in jail he loaned me money and he gave me my first job when I got out that was our customer who did that and so um like I value our customers like and and and and especially John and his family and Maggie who I like it really is I talk about John a lot, but really Maggie. She was really my big champion. I think and so anyhow, I You know What it taught me actually Because I was a filmmaker and it was up my own ass most of the time, but what it kind of taught me was you know? Be compassionate to other people because you might not know it, but they might be going through shit in their lives, you know, and God forbid it be something health related, which is almost out of

your control. But you know, people are suffering and people are struggling. And I used to be a lot more cavalier about people and kind of fuck with people and and be forceful people and not really care as much. Now I'm acutely aware of people and you know what they may be going through. I think this is the best way to wrap this up. Perfect. Gentlemen thank you very much this is an best way to wrap this up. Perfect. Gentlemen, thank you very much. This was an awesome conversation. This has been really great. Thank you for letting us come in. Three and a half hours just flew by.

Thank you so much, Dan. Oh my God. I actually thought, oh, I guess he's wrapping it up quick. No, I think it's three hours. I thought it was like 90 minutes. I thought it was like 90 minutes. There it is, the Video Archives podcast on Patreon. Patreon.com.

Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com.

Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com.

Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Patreon.com. Bye!