The Joe Rogan Experience - #2243 - Julian Lennon

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter, photographer, author, and filmmaker. His new fine art photography coffee table book, “Life’s Fragile Moments," is available now, as is the Spike Stent remix of his 1998 song "I Should Have Known." www.julianlennon.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I go see this dermatologist. Oh, you have a little skin. Yeah, a little excision here because it had been bothering me a bit. And a couple of years ago, I had a bit of a cancer scare on my head because I have I have a birthmark here that we don't really see. And there was a mole there. And I kept as my hair got a little thinner, I would I would use a comb and it caught it one time and it opened it up. And so I I I kind of a comb and it caught it one time and it opened it up and so I

kind of kept picking at it when it became a scab and I kept picking over the course of like six months and then I went to see this dermatologist for the first time in LA and I said yeah I've got a little bit of a you know I've been trying not to scratch it now but I'm a bit worried about it. It's been like six months of me being an idiot because it just was really irritable. And so she, you know, cut it out and sent it off. And I was at a pretty serious meeting with a whole bunch of people and she called me up at the end of it and said, listen, I to tell you this but it's it's cancerous you know we got to cut it out we've got to get it and yeah I just went completely numb at that

point and freaked out because I just thought what does this mean and it's in the bigger picture? And I had a lot of friends that had passed from cancer, various kinds over the years. And so it really did freak me out. Anyway, I got the all clear. It was cleaned out. So just anything that just looks or feels a little odd. There was something I was,

I'd been scratching here a bit Something here as well. So she just Did a little cutting and no doubt I'll hear from her in a few days once she gets the results That's scary because there's in a spot that you don't check, you know, it's covered in hair Yeah, it's going on back there. Yeah, but it was because of the birthmark and you know, I just Just kept and the thinning thinner hair and so I just kept You know brushing it with a comb and it caught it and then it scabbed and then I it became itchy And so I step kept scratching it, you know, pulling it off like a kid, you know, yes you do is you just

Anyway, I'm happy to be here in one piece for the moment, you know. I got one of those comprehensive blood panel screens for cancer recently. And then, you know, you wait a while for the results and you're like, geez, like, what if I'm one of those people? Yeah, I have anything but yeah I have the I have you know I go for a proper checkup like twice a year you know just on every front just to make sure I'm gonna be around because I like living I want to be around for a long time. That's good. For sure. Yeah.

It's a weird thing, because how old are you now? 61. Yeah, I'm 57. And we're getting up there, fella. I don't like to think about it. I don't think about it too much. I'm completely in denial. Absolutely.

I refuse. Because I just remember seeing my uncles, you know, on my mother's side, what they were like in their 50s alone, you know, and they'd be sitting there with a big belly in front of the TV with, you know, a couple of packets of cigarettes and drinking tea or beer and watching the TV all day. And that was their life in their 50s and 60s until they had a heart attack and died and I went no I'm not doing that one and I've just always been not that I'm a health freak in any way shape or form but I certainly you know my regime is try to eat as healthy as you can and do a bit of power walking a couple of

times a week. That's good. And that does the trick for me. Nothing wrong with that. No. Walking is one of the best forms of exercise. Yeah. If you can get it in every day, you'll be much healthier than if you don't.

Absolutely. That's not hard to do. No, it's not. Listen to a book on tape, go for a stroll. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's great for the body. Yeah. You don't have to fucking kill yourself No, and I I've also in my time dealt with a fair amount of

Depression as well and anxiety. I get pretty anxious still even you know coming here today. I was a bit Breathe yeah, yes, I went for a nice little power walk around there. Whatever the lake is down there One where the bats are yeah I had no idea about them out no no idea I never even heard of it it's really cool the biggest bat population in the world that's what they're saying I don't know that's true I think the biggest bad population the world is in Africa I would believe or the Amazon but yeah I think it's a really large population though and it's cool to see they come out that's what it looks like when they come out. Yeah no they they claim there's

the signage down there. Oh really? Oh yeah that says it's the biggest bad population in the world. Hmm maybe it's a specific kind of bad. I don't know. So is this at sunset that this happens? Yes yeah right at night time. Maybe it's a specific kind of bat. I don't know Is this at sunset that this happens? Yes. Yeah right at nighttime It's really cool. It's very fun to watch and you hear them if you go under the bridge like if you walk on here Yeah, I was there today Okay, they're just chilling it's weird but they're responsible for keeping the mosquito population down Is that yeah, they do a great job those little suckers fantastic. They care take care of the mosquitoes

Yeah, I don't What purpose do they have really? Spreading horrible disease. Yeah sucking that and over jeans. I don't understand the opus genes either Well, you know they tried to develop a genetically modified mosquito that was going to attack the other mosquitoes. Yeah. But that horror movie type shit, you know, I hear about that. I'm like, OK, and what happens then? Like whenever you start monkeying around nature in that regard. And so nothing came of it then? I don't know what's been done with that

I don't know It's like these people are doing these things and it can affect all of us and you you know Just read about it on the internet and if it wasn't for the internet, you wouldn't even know they were doing it Need more hot takes head to the fan dual sportsbook app They got more ways to bet more ways to bet, more ways to win, and more ways to cash out quick. You can cook up same-game parlays on any MLB or soccer game all in one place, not to mention golf, tennis, and more. Download FanDuel and get more from North America's number one sportsbook. Please play responsibly. 19-plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca

Are you sure this is going to be okay in the long run? Like, what's the potential chances for mutations? Like what would what happens if they carry a very unique disease that you know, it's Well, you know, the scary thing is we have no idea what half these people are up to. No, we don't. COVID being an example. Yeah, perfect example. Did you see what happened in Australia yesterday?

There was a laboratory that lost track of, well, I put it on Twitter, lost track of like a bunch of different like really serious diseases. How does that happen? Someone left the door open? Yeah. I went once, me and my friend Duncan, we went once to the lab in Galveston, Texas. They have a Center for Disease Control, I believe. The organization has this enormous bio lab

down in Galveston where they take care of like some of the most dangerous and deadly viruses in the world. So they have like this incredible filtration system and everybody's wearing space suits and they're walking and we're in there going, what are you guys doing? Hundreds of vials of deadly viruses have gone missing from a laboratory and scientists warn they could be weaponized. So what are 100 vials of hendavirus, 2 vials of hantavirus, 223 vials of lysavirus, all of which are extremely deadly for humans. And of course I love it when the media says, you know, something along the lines of the

end of that statement that could be weaponized. So that's great. Now, the freaks are going to go and try and find that stuff. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, we've got into this mess in the first place because, and this has now been confirmed, that they were working on these viruses in this laboratory and it got released and that these viruses had been created through gain of function research.

So these goofballs are down there working on viruses, making them more infectious to humans. And you would say, well, why are they doing that? Well, surely they're doing that so they can study them and they can cure them, make sure that we don't get sick. Is that the logic? That's the logic, but they didn't have a cure for it. The Lysovirus is rabies?

Oh, great. Lysovirus are responsible for rabies, which is arguably the deadliest encephalotic disease known. The prototype rabies, Lysovirus, thought to be able to infect all terrestrial mammals. Yay. What a good thing to just have laying around. I mean, that's like the opening of 28 Days Later, right? Yeah.

Yeah, no. There's a new one. Have you seen the trailer for the new one? There's a new one? The 28 years later. No, come on. Yeah. Yeah.

Cillian Murphy's back. Let's go. Yeah, I'm in. Count me in. That's the greatest zombie. Yeah. Yeah. Cillian Murphy's back. Let's go. Yeah, I'm in. Count me in. That's the greatest zombie. Oh, here it is. It's the greatest zombie movie of all time, for sure. 7 6 11 5 9 and 20 miles today for 11 1732 the day before. Boots, boots, boots, boots, moving up and down again.

There's no discharge in the war. Don't, don't, don't, don't. It's all shot on my phone. Look at what's in front of you. Really? That's what they said. I mean not with the lenses, but. Boots, boots, boots, moving up and down again.

Men, men, men, men, men go mad with watching them. with their lenses but... I Okay, I work up relatively calm and peaceful this morning. A little bit of pre-podcast anxiety, and now you're worried about the end of the world. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you. I didn't know what to expect, but now I'm in. I'm terrified of these eggheads messing around

with all these things. I really am, because it seems like what we know now is that there wasn't a ton of oversight. They shipped, they sort of went with the... So the NIH funds the EcoHealth Alliance, the EcoHealth Alliance funds the Wuhan lab, the Wuhan lab, which has had many safety violations, including like I think a year before the leak, and then it gets out. And then they all lie. And then they all trade emails back and

forth where they're talking about the lie and they go in front of Congress and they lie and now there's they're talking about giving Fauci a mass pardon or a preemptive pardon so he doesn't get charged when the Trump is. It's a whole thing is and then there's another one today where the Biden administration is keeping the emergency classification of COVID to 2029 so that they can avoid being attacked for the Emergency Use Authorization Act. It's so creepy stuff because there's money. It's all money, right?

There's money involved in this. There's these involved in this. These people that are working on viruses, well, the way to get funding is you have to work on viruses. So whether or not they're, I don't think they're evil people, but I think these people, this is what they studied in college. This is what they went to university for. And now they're studying it and what's the best way to study it. You got to actually have to have funding. You have to have a lab and you start doing it. And so who do you do it for? Well, you do it for the Defense Department, you're like because they want to work on weaponizing viruses. This is a real thing

This is one of the scariest things fucking terrifying I did a television show once where we talked to this guy from Russia and From former Soviet Union where he was talking about how they had literally like giant vats of anthrax about how they had literally like giant vats of anthrax. They had enough anthrax to literally kill like every fucking human being in America and that they were working on viruses and all these deadly diseases. To be honest with you I'm quite surprised we're still here. It's pretty shocking. With what's already happened and what the potentials are it's staggering. Well if you think about all the things that we've gone through where we just barely missed

a total disaster, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then there was the one time where there was an aro- they thought that the United States had launched a missile at Russia and they were very close to responding, it was just a glitch. And one guy, just one clear-headed person decided not to launch Yeah, and this is in the 60s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is all it's so terrifying Yeah, we're so close all the time really that's why One should just try and have a happy life wherever you can That's for sure the problem with that is if you don't speak up, and if no one reacted to any of this COVID-19

stuff, if no one reacted to the Orwellian censorship complex that was established to try to silence people who are critical of the narrative that they were pushing, we would all be fucked. You kind of have to pay attention now unfortunately. I don't want to. I just want to have fun. Live my life. With my family and my friends. Join myself. We all do. It's good to be aware. No question about that. There's also this part of me that goes,, but this is what this is what the universe provides you with the universe provides with this very unique balance of good and evil and

The evil exists to appreciate the good and to motivate the good No question. There's always going to be both. It just seems like there's always going to until we reach some Enlightenment till Jesus comes back to the aliens land In two, we reach some enlightenment till Jesus comes back, till the aliens land. Well, it's that thing called balance, isn't it? Yeah. Trying to do the balancing act as best as you can. Yeah.

What do you do? What's your balancing routine, like if you feel like you're getting a little sideways? I hate to say it, but it's back to getting out into the fresh air and walking. Yeah. I mean, that really does, or even photography, you know, just being... Actually, my number one go-to is I'm a biker.

I've been on motorcycles since I was like in my early teens. So to really blow the cobwebs out, it's kind of getting on the bike and just riding Somewhere I've never been before. I'll just look at a map and go that looks interesting and I just go and That looks like so fun if I was bulletproof and made out of metal Well, it's the other people that's saying all this stuff. That's exactly right. Yeah. But you have to, I believe you have to have a heightened awareness to be a biker and still.

Oh, most certainly. Do you have a loud bike so people can hear it at least? Yeah. I've had a few loud ones in my day. Like a Harley? I used to have a Harley. At the moment, I ride a triumph a couple of triumphs one that looks like an old-school but actually works and

then I thought I was never gonna be one of those guys that ever kind of rode one of those 50s no the sort of adventure bikes you, with like the saddles with the boxes. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, but the relative half-faring. But when I go for a ride and these random rides, you know, I can be gone up in the mountains for, with no signal for three and a half, four hours, you know, and that there been an occasion, or several in the past, where without a signal the bike has had problems. And it gets pretty scary when you're in the wilderness and you've got no backup plan. I had an oil leak with a brand new bike and no signal.

And I literally rolling down any hill I could just to survive, make it to whatever little village I could find in the middle of nowhere. Where were you? I was in France. Oh wow. So I tend to go up in the wilds back there. So I decided also my backside after three and a half hours on one of the older style bikes is pretty painful. So I just happened to look at one of the Triumph adventure bikes. What do they look like? Can you tell us?

So that's what my old bike looks like That's that's actually my old bike with my old friend riding it And that's the one where your ass kills after a couple of hours But so yeah, those are the kind of views I get those are in the middle of nowhere. These are your photograph. Yeah Yeah, yeah. These are just quickies on my phone Are these your photographs? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, these are just quickies on my phone. Just the places I find myself in in the middle of nowhere.

I mean, stunning, stunning, stunning places. They're not far from where I am on the coast. And they're kind of on the border with Italy. So it's pretty unique stuff. Where do you live? I officially live in Monaco. Oh, wow. I was just there. Yeah, I was there last summer. Yeah. Oh, shit. Okay. Well, that's really beautiful. It's it's not a bad place to be a weird spot. It's a weird place. What's going on here? This is everybody's stacked up and apartments. It's very transient. You know. People come and go for whatever reason that they do. Most people

like myself, we have a summer house getaway so you can go breathe on the weekends. Isn't it kind of a tax shelter-y place too? Yeah, very much so. There's a lot of real rich folks go there to hoard their cash. For sure, for sure. But there's a few new places around the world that offer that kind of possibility. Oh really? Like where else? Well, Dubai's offering certain incentives now, Portugal certain incentives. Yeah, Dubai has like no income tax, right?

I've never been there, personally. Is that the fact? Is that a fact? I think it is. I'm not 100% sure. But I have a friend who just moved to Dubai. He's American, and he's a filmmaker. And he says, I feel so safe.

Yeah, well, that's one element of it. There's no crime. As long as you're not doing anything bad. He said you could leave a Rolex on the ground, and someone will pick it up and turn it into the police. Yeah, I'm sure. UAE does not levy income tax on an individual. However, it levies a 5% value added tax on the purchase of goods.

That's pretty reasonable. Yeah. Levy it at each stage of the supply chain and ultimately born to the end consumer. Wow. Fairly reasonable. Yeah, yeah. So although it's never inspired me so far anyway. Well, there's a lot of like wild restrictions over there.

Oh, yeah. And I like a bit of character with where I am. Yeah. And you know, one of the pleasures I find is number one, I'm a biker. So I get to ride around a lot. I'm not really a beach guy After 20 minutes I start twitching. I need to do something. It's true But I'm also a foodie as well. So, you know

Monaco's half an hour away from Italy and there's actually a big crossover In the restaurants between French and Italian food and then you have places like the island of Corsica which is French now it's been through the mill a few times it was English at one point it was Italian at one point it's I think a few other nations too but and I could see it from where I was you can actually see the outline of Corsica from the south of France and from Monaco in certain locations. And I'd seen it for 25, 30 years and had never been. And a couple of years ago, I decided with a friend to hop in, I've got a little mini

convertible, and that's my little run around and decided to get the ferry which is about six hours across and drive you know with no bookings no nothing and just see if there was a hotel available and drove around the whole island in ten days and it was the one of the most magical places I've ever ever been to it's like ten countries on one island the most magical places I've ever, ever been to. It's like 10 countries on one island. The scenery is mind blowing. And the south of it is very much like the Caribbean, crystal clear turquoise blue waters.

But the food, again, is this combination of it, the best of Italian and the best of French. And just the freshest of the freshest of the fresh. And I've only been down there about two or three times because this was only a few years ago and I couldn't believe that it's and here's the other thing okay the ferry's six hours but you can get a on what they call a vomit comet it's like a very short, you know. You could be there in the south of Koska from from Nice Airport in 45 minutes and it's a different world. It's an entirely stunning, gorgeous, different world with again scenery unlike I've ever seen before. Oh, I see. And for such a small island, which you can, yeah.

Is it here? Oh, wow. I mean, it's just insanely, insanely beautiful. And that's Bonifacio, yeah. They're renowned for being, they can be a bit of a tough nuts. In what way? If they don renowned for being, they can be a bit of a, you know, tough nuts. In what way? You know, if they don't like you, if you piss them off, excuse my French, they'll blow

up your house. I mean, there was a report a couple of years ago that this guy's house, that he was causing some trouble and they didn't want him around and they blew up, blew up his house. He said it on fire and blew it up. I'm serious. Well, I guess if you live in a small place like that that's really amazing, you're probably very protective of someone coming along and ruining it. They're exactly like that. I mean, if you don't...

I get that. If you don't respect them... Yeah, I get that. Yeah, no. Well, whenever people say, like, if you go to France, they're very rude. I get it. I've gone to France. I didn't think they were rude, you know, but I get how there's some Americans, like, hopping

right off the cruise ship that are just fat and stupid. There's just, you know, I think if you're not prepared to be warm and friendly on the approach and treat them with the respect that they deserve in their own country Treats like you're a visitor. Yeah Yeah, you know don't order them around don't tell them what to do and and you know, even though, you know They think it's quite funny that you try and speak their language. I mean I Can understand French pretty well and Italian and a few other things, but, you know, God help me if I try and speak it because they'll just, they don't laugh at you, but

they'll speak back to you in English, you know. Right. That's the wonderful thing about English is that- But at least make the effort is what I'm saying. Sure. Show them that you're trying. Show them that you're trying, yeah. Say, mercy.

And they kind of go, yeah. Say that. Yeah, just thank you alone, you know, yeah Don't just order them around which I've seen many people do and it's it's a bit shocking. Good. I see me. They see Say a few things. Yeah, just let them know that you're you're trying. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely I go to a doubt. I try to go to Italy every year We mean of my family we go there every year and I love it. It's just so ready Where do you get my favorite place is Ravello? Where is that? I don't Ravello's on the Amalfi Coast. Okay, okay It's just so so beautiful

But I've liked Rome too. It's a little touristy the problem with Rome is it's overcrowded and there's a lot of touristy shit going on. Rome is not my favorite. The reason why it's so appealing to me is because my, actually my first stepfather was Italian, Roberto Bassanini. That's pretty Italian. He was very Italian and he was the black sheep of the family. He was the Italian and he was the black sheep of the family. He was the naughty boy and he was more like an older brother to me. Married to mum after dad after John and his family

were involved in kind of hotels and restaurants from also London in the heyday of Italian restaurants. It was like the 70s. And so they had a few small hotels in different areas. And so whenever I wasn't at school in London at that, you know, or England at that time, we'd take these little trips to, you know, Cortina or above Milan, this little town called Fopolo that I used to go, unknown by most tourists, locals to go skiing in the winter or Pesaro, which was on the East Coast for summer holidays. So, you know, I spent a lot of time there growing up from the age of five, six, seven. She was only with him for about three or four years, but we stayed in touch, you know. I used to go and visit him all the time because he was a laugh, you know. Of course,

sadly his lifestyle killed him with a couple of heart attacks at the end of everything. It's usually how it goes when you're having a good time. Yeah, he was having too much of a good time, I'm afraid. But I miss him dearly. He certainly was one of those characters that you just admire. When I go to Italy, it feels like almost immediately you have a decrease in blood pressure. Yes. Like almost immediately. Oh, a decrease in blood pressure. Yes. Like almost immediate. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the vibe of the people and the way they live is just relax.

They can be a bit stressed sometimes though with the shouting at each other and the mother of a girl. Yeah. But even that, it doesn't seem like shouting, like American shouting leads to violence. Yes, this is true. I hear American shouting. I'm like, let's get the fuck out of here. Yeah, yeah, agree, agree. I hear Italian shouting, like, what happened? Did someone in the kitchen fuck up? Like, what went wrong?

Yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound pompous, but it does sound pompous. That, you know, if I have friends come over from the States or London, and, you know, I'll say, do you fancy, you know, getting some Italian tonight? And we'll get in the car, and we'll, do you fancy it, you know, getting some Italian tonight and we'll get in the car and we'll be on the freeway or the motorway over there and they'll be saying, where the f are we going, you know, and I'm going, go for Italian.

And there's a little town about an hour away from Monaco, tiny little medieval town called, well I'll give it away actually, can't give it away, where I'll just go and get the best spaghetti vongole on the planet made by a grandmother who's in a kitchen, you know, ten by ten at the best of times, you know, and it's down on the water and it's just, you know, it's Italy for me, if you're not in the mountains, if you're by the sea, at its best. And you know, they all get dressed up at sunset.

You know, they all love to walk the promenade and, you know, in their finest attire and, you know, sit there and watch the world go by and drink their coffee and chat. I, you know, because I lived in LA for I think it was about eight years and I went back. The story of me going back actually was that I flew back to London to see a premiere of a film called Backbeat. It's about the early Beatles. I didn't know anything about it but I had an invite so I went to see it and I met this guy who said who's a Line producer film producer and he said

You know, do you have you been to Monaco before I said no Never even thought about it really and he said he said do you like Grand Prix I said it really and he said he said do you like Grand Prix I said not really a kind of Grand Prix kind of guy he said well listen if you got nothing to do this weekend after you know we saw the film and the premiere yeah why don't you come down I've got an apartment I've got an extra room I know the town inside out you know and I was thinking, oh what am I gonna do, go back to LA and be numb again. And so I literally went down to Monaco the next day and he just showed me around and we went to this very

famous restaurant and famous corner called the Rascass corner on the Grand Prix circuit. And it's literally where you're having a prawn cocktail and there's a car coming at you at about 180 miles an hour with just a chicken wire fence in front of your face. How far away? I mean, directly in front of you. I mean, the car could be... So this is it right here? Yeah, that's not the Rascasse Corner, that's the Lowes Corner. Rascasse Corner is very,

very famous little spot. There it is. Yeah, that's it. So you'd be behind the chicken wire fence. This is a kind of modern version of it. But that's even more protection than it used to have. And you'd have a bit of lunch there and they would and that became that was the hot spot in Monaco for years and years there were three brothers that owned it real troublemakers and it was a blast but so you had the car so I went all right I'm into this and so I spent the summer down there and I used to have a little bungalow on Mulholland and Coldwater and I had a caretaker there because I had a dog at the time And I just said hi Tim Pack it up sell the house. I'm not coming back and I didn't I didn't go back. Did you take your dog?

the dog actually died before I Yeah, sadly it was getting on but But yes Moving my yeah that was it. Yeah, I just I just put everything in storage I rented this kind of What could be seen as a Miami vice kind of apartment also on the 30th floor It just had Marble and Mirrored wall with no furniture. And so I bought a couch off of the floor

of a store called Habitat, because it would take like six weeks to order and I had nothing. And so I bought a couch, I bought a TV, even though there was no English TV back then. This is 30 years ago. And I just had a trunk to put the TV on. Occasionally you get American movies. And a mattress on the floor and I lived like that for 10 years. And just was really stupid. Did you enjoy it?

I was just stupid. Did you enjoy it? I was just stupid. I've had two, I've had three major, no, four, it's like the Spanish Inquisition, four major incidents. Now, I mean, London back in the day used to be a great place to party and enjoy. And then I moved to New York for a few years early in my career in my early 20s. And but I almost I think I almost died there with the partying that went on and the clubs back in the heyday then and it was Celebrity Central, you know, with the likes of the Limelight with Alice Cooper and a few other fruitcakes. And then I really did feel like I was, you know, I could have

gone off the rails. Yeah, easily. I was borderline. I enjoyed it too much. And then I went out to LA and a friend of mine had a convertible and we just drove across Mulholland down to Malibu and I went this is gorgeous what the hell am I doing about so I moved to LA I packed up and moved and that's that I did exactly the same thing I found a place to to live and I just you know was there until I could get myself situated I think I met you in LA Are you serious? 1993 that's a good possibility that would have been middle mid to end of my term out there

I was doing something for MTV and you were one of the first Celebrities that I met you I met Rico Suave and a couple of the front door Yes, okay. Yeah, because You, I met Rico Suave and a couple other people. Shut the front door. Yes, yeah, because, yeah, I was, yeah, early in on the MTV stuff. The label I was with was pushing whatever, you know, throw me on whatever was available. I was with this woman who was an executive at MTV and she was taking me around and showing me LA. You know, I'd never been to LA before.

And well, I'd been once for a martial arts competition when I was young. Here was, and she took me to this nightclub and you were at the front door about to get in. And I was like, holy shit, this is really weird. Do you remember which one it was? No, I don't, I remember very little about it. Was I with some fruitcakes? I'm sure Lund. I don't remember which one it was. No, I don't. I remember very little about it. Was I with some fruitcakes?

I'm sure I was. I don't remember. I just remember like, oh, that's a famous guy. John Lennon's son. Crazy. Because, you know, I was coming from New York. Of course. I was 25, 26 years old.

I didn't know anything. And I was like, this is so strange. It was just strange to me to be in these Hollywood parties with this MTV executive who's taking me around and showing me all this stuff. Oh yeah. So you're just kind of like Hollywood parties with this MTV executive who's taking me around, showing me all this stuff. So you're just kind of like introducing, like this is what it's like. It's what everybody does.

They go out, they go out to the clubs and it was just. Yeah, yeah, the scary thing about LA was that you thought it was all over by two o'clock, because they literally pull your drinks at 1.30. But then they go to someone's house right and they continue till dawn, you know So that was dangerous, too. So I was happy that I got away from that Fortunately, I avoided all that. Yeah. Yeah lucky. Yeah, I mean there was there was some fun to be had no question about it But I'm sure a lot of it was kind of dark too yes I'm sure well that's

when you when you start adding cocaine to human beings you get dark oh yeah and a lot of Jack Daniels to go hand in hand yes yeah I avoided all that luckily when I moved to LA I'm one of those people that's like I you're out there where that's going. Are you out there for? um, I Guess 30 well, no not quite 30 years 26 years cuz I've been here for stretch. Yeah most yeah the most of my life the most I've ever lived anywhere. I lived there But I only went to parties like a handful very small handful of times. It was like I was dragged to him Yeah, you know like the last one I was dragged to was like a handful, a very small handful of times. It was like I was dragged to them.

The last one I was dragged to was Naomi Campbell's birthday party, which was... I'm sure that was... It was insane. Yeah. It was with Dave Chappelle. So Dave and I were at the comedy store and Dave knows everybody. Dave's like, hey man, there's a party up in the hills. You want to go?

And I was like, I don't want to go to any fucking parties. He's like, come on man, I wanna go alone. So I said, okay, so me and Dave, we drove all the way up, it was like a scene in a movie. Because here's me and my super famous friend, and we're in my Porsche, and we're in my race car, I have a GT3, so we're driving up in the hills, and then we have to stop at this place,

and then you have to get on a shuttle And then you get to the house and then you get on an elevator an outside Elevator that takes you from the main house to the party house So they had a party house on the top of this hill So we're up in this elevator with Demi Moore, which is weird as it is. Yeah. Yeah I'm like, hi, you know, it's fucking weird. I famous lady. Yeah. And then we get to the top of this hill. And it's just everybody famous. It's Lenny Kravitz and all these different people. And so Naomi

Campbell, there's a photograph of her on the side of the hill that's literally 50 feet tall. It's enormous naked photograph of her, of course, because it's her birthday. Well, of course, she's unbelievably beautiful still as old she is I don't know how she'll old she is, but she looks sensational. So we get to the top of this place. We're hanging out It's very weird. It's very weird and then Dave pulls me aside. He goes man. I Wouldn't want to be this famous. I go. Hey man. You're the most famous motherfucker here. He goes really Oh, yeah, yeah, because we're a little high. He was really I go 100% You're the most famous person for sure

We're just laughing like this is so crazy, and then we got out of there went right back to the Comedy Store I'm like oh, I can't do this. Yeah, it's just too strange The scenes are pretty weird out there. That's for sure. What's also these celebrities You know they can't hang out with regular people. I think they feel too weird So I think they try to get together. Yeah, and so we were in like that's that absolutely a spot on a vampire Yes famous people you are absolutely spot on they call it like he said was like an eyes wide shut party I'm like that's what it feels like Secret fraternize. That's yeah, there's a few that I've left that I felt very uncomfortable being

at. Like what? I mean, I couldn't tell you exactly where and when, but certainly some weird ones up in the hills. I just went, no, this just doesn't feel good. There's something about the act of going up into the hills, like you're going to the lair, the dragon's lair. Well, one of the things was the fact that, well, I mean, now you've got Ubers all over

the place, but yeah, back in my day, there was no taxis around either. So you'd get trapped. And then you'd figure, well, I'm here anyway, you know, might as well have another drink. Well, I'm here anyway, you know, yeah, I have another drink And that's what would happen more often than not but Yeah, so it's it's Yeah kind of better not to Definitely better not to but maybe go a couple times. Yeah, go check it out. Yeah, don't go and see what that's all about Yeah, yeah, many people have lost. It's messy though. Oh, yeah

They've lost their time to those places. It's very messy. It becomes a part of your life in your lifestyle It's deeply unhealthy both It's physically unhealthy, but it's also like spiritually unhealthy. Yeah, it's a weird way to spend your time been there done. Thank you very much. You look fine. You got through it No, I did. I did get through it. Don't you think it's good to just know though? Oh, yeah Yeah, not the way to do. I think if you don't know, you know, you can't You can't talk about it. You can't you can't understand right that weird journey that you go through Yeah, I think you have to do certain things sometimes just to realize what it's all about. It's that balancing. It's the light and the dark.

LA is so particularly odd too because everyone's chasing this very specific goal of notoriety. Like, it's success, but it's quantified by notoriety. Like the more famous you are the more popular the bigger your song is. Now you know all you've got to have is a bloody iPhone or whatever. TikTok. Yeah and an account and that's it. I mean very strange. Yeah really really odd.

Yeah I like I can't quite get to grips with all of that to be honest with you I don't think anybody can and I think it it's essentially being captured by a form of technology That has leveraged our desire for this attention our desire for this notoriety But it's also being known for nothing. Right. Yeah. That's the scary thing. Yes. And having this element of what seems to be the latest generation of this privilege.

Right. You know. Right. Where they believe that, you know, everything is owed to them. Right. Entitled. Entitled, yeah. And I find that shocking.

Well, that comes along with the quest, right? If the quest is just notoriety. Like if you're an artist and you happen to get famous because everybody loves your music or loves your photography or loves your books or whatever it is, that's a different sort of a relationship because people love you for what you've made, what you've produced. Yeah, there's a purpose to it. Yeah, and I love people like that because I'm fascinated by people that are able to create things that resonate with everybody or resonate with an enormous amount of people.

It's fascinating to be around them and to like to kind of just, you know, I know a lot of famous people now and I know some of them are just fantastic people. They're just really interesting people. You have very interesting people on your show. That's a show. I mean, that's what intrigued me, you know, from, you know, Professor Brian Cox, you know, I'm an absolute fan of. He's amazing. Such a nice guy. Lovely guy. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Too much information for my good. It's so funny. I was talking about him with a friend of mine the other day, and my friend wasn't aware of him.

And I had just done a podcast with him. And I had gone to the club from the podcast. I'm like, oh my God, I had the greatest podcast. This guy blew my mind. I've had him on several times, and he's always amazing. And my friend looks at the photo, he goes, what does he look like? I pull up, he's like, is that guy in a fucking band or something? I go, yeah, he was in a band. That's right. He's like and and my friend looks at the photo. He goes, what does he look like? I pull up He's like is that kind of fucking band or something? Yeah, he wasn't a bitch. He's like no way. Yeah. Yeah, he's in a successful band Yeah, he's an actual brilliant scientist who was in a successful band. Yeah. Yeah mind-boggling mind, but I mean I

Doesn't come because he looks like a rock star. He does he does he's Yeah, he's not changed his look since the beginning and he's such a great science Communicator well, that's the thing see I love science, but I get lost in it sometimes But he is probably probably the closest I'll ever get to really trying to have an insight into what it's all about You know, he's best as he can describe. He's really good at explaining to people that don't have the proper understanding of all the terminology and all the ways they discover it. He can lay it out for the lay person. Yeah, which is why he's so fascinating, which is why everybody should know him.

Yeah, his show is wonderful too. Have you ever seen his show? They do a live performance. No, I have not enormous screens and they show you like history of the universe and stellar nurseries and all this wild stuff Yeah, really incredible stuff. No fantastic. Yeah, fantastic stuff Yeah, I've been very fortunate in that way that I've had a chance to talk to so many extraordinary people and it's great But it makes talking to boring people almost painful like like like you're just holding your breath i don't know which category i mean you're not in

the boring kind no no well i can be i think we all can be i guess at some stage but well just the fact that you're willing to do what you've done is to take these trips and just move to a place I think that's great. I think people need more of that in their life I think you could see the world from your neighborhood and from where you live and get a really distorted sense of this experience this very unique experience of these Bizarre thinking creatures interacting with each other on this isolated planet that's hurling through the universe. And you could think that you kind of understand the experience until you go to other places. Well, I see you're a big fan of Bourdain as well.

And I loved his show. So I still watch them all the time because it's just what he discovered and how he entrenched himself with the people that he went to meet and the conversations and the food and just that's my cup of tea right there. I think how can you not want to do that, learn and love that experience? Well he had such a like infectious passion for different cultures and their food and the art of food. Like, he was the first guy that made me consider that cooking is actually an art form. Like, I kind of knew it, but I didn't think of it. I kind of just said, oh, delicious food. Awesome. Well, this guy's a really great chef. Awesome. Yeah. And then I watched his first show, No Reservations. Okay, duh. It's art. It's art that you eat. Oh, that's why they're all weird now, tattoos and fucking weird earrings. Okay, they're artists. Okay,

that makes so much sense. And I was like, oh, you ignorant fuck. You had never put it in that category. I just decided, no, that's just food. But no, there's an art to food. It's another level. Yeah. like the place you were talking about, linguine with clams, linguine vongole, which is my favorite dish of all time. Spaghetti vongole. Oh, when it's done, right? I promise that if you ever come back to Monty,

as we call it, I'll drive you. Oh, I'll go. We'll go for spaghetti vongole and hope the dear grandmother's still alive. It also makes me angry because when I eat Pasta and pizza over in Italy. I don't feel like shit Then I come to America and I eat the same Supposed things and I feel I can eat a friggin salad here and put on weight. I don't know what's going on. I'm serious Yeah, it's seed oils seed oils in the salad dressing and sugar.

Yep, all of that. Yeah, I agree. I live, it's a much healthier lifestyle over there without question. Oh yeah, the food hasn't been violated. Yeah, that's true. It's generally organic. You can eat pizza every day and pasta every day. And. Just and also that I think the other real big thing here is the portion control as well. Yeah, we're gluttons. I mean you could you can have one plate full of food here and it'll serve four people in Europe. Yeah. Literally.

Oh yeah, that's a fact. I think, you know, I was poor when I was young and I think because of that I'm even more of a glutton. I just want more food. I want all the food Yeah, and then I work out a lot. So I'm always hungry. Yeah, so then I I have a real That's a different thing. But yeah, I mean the only thing that keeps me from being fat is my exercise routine and discipline Yeah, if I was just giving into my whims, I'd be 500 pounds. Yeah. Yeah for sure Love food. Yeah, it for sure. I just love food Yeah, it's it's you know, it's especially Culture, you know if you go to somewhere like you can go to Thailand and eat authentic Thai food in Thailand

It's like oh man. Oh, yeah, something special It's great when you got friends who have that same appreciation that you know while you're eating lunch you're talking about dinner. Yeah That's how excited you are about food and it's also it just Realigns your priorities like what what really are you trying to get out of life? You're trying to get out of life memorable experiences with people you care about those are like the best moments in life No question. No question about it. it. Yeah, I long for that because also I go in these very long working time periods and I don't get to see a lot of friends quite often, you know, and so I really try and work out

and look at my schedule these days. I'm taking some time out here for a couple of days. I want to see my friends. I want to say hello. I want to share some time and stories and food with them. So it's become a key thing to have that included in running around like a headless chicken all the time. You know?

Is that what inspired your photography? Because this book is really excellent. Your photography is great. Thank you. You know, it was a dear friend, Timothy White, who's a celebrity photographer. And he'd done my second and third album. And we were doing a charity single called Lucy,

which was about Lucy Voden, who was the Lucy in the sky with diamond that I grew up with, who died from lupus. And then I became the lupus, the ambassador for the lupus foundation of America. We were doing a single to raise money called Lucy and we were doing with another great artist called James Scott Cook and we were doing a photo shoot and he'd sent me some pictures and I started screwing around with his pictures

and he said to me, and you don't, you actually don't do that with another photographer's work. You know he said what? What you do with my pictures? I said he said where did you learn how to do this? I said well, I didn't I just you know I I'm intuitively inspired to to play around with stuff You know it's I'm still a big kid so and he said well Do you have any other do you you have other photos, do you actually have photos yourself that you've taken and worked on? I said, well, I've got bits and bobs, but nothing. So he and I sat down and looked through all the photos I had, and I think there was maybe

1,000 at that time, which isn't much at all. And now over 120,000 photos. It's mind-boggling. That's why this was difficult. But yeah, so he said, Jules, why don't you do something with this stuff? And I said, what? What am I going to do? And he said, listen, you should do an exhibition. You've got some really beautiful things here. And I said, I said, listen, I'll do it if you mentor me through the whole process, which he did. And I was probably more petrified at the first exhibition that I did which was in New York at the old CBGBs Which turned into the Morrison Hotel Gallery and That was in 2010 I think and

I was more petrified The three days leading up to that than I was ever going on stage Well, probably my first ever stage stage performance which I did in Dallas at a rehearsal space that was down here for the first ever tour. Now again the anxiety you know it's the unknown I don't know what you know the worry of what people are going to think because you know not just being you but John Lennon's son, being the second John, so to speak, was always an issue for me. You know, it's feeling like you have to doubly prove yourself. So and, and literally an hour or two before the opening

as well, there was the most horrendous storm and downpour in New York and I thought, well, that's it. Nobody's coming. But to my utter delight, I had reviews from fine art photography, magazines, et cetera, et cetera, that gave me nothing but praise and I was shocked. Absolutely shocked. So

I just continued doing that. I'm now over I think 42 exhibitions worldwide and I just finished my biggest one in Venice at a museum over the last three months. And the book, in fact, I had approached other publications before, but been pretty much turned down by everybody. And then out of the blue, earlier this year, this company out of Berlin called Tennoise said, listen, do you want to do a photography book I said hell yeah and they said why haven't you done one before I said because nobody gave me the opportunity excuse my French do you think that's because you're John Lennon

son like there's a burden that is very unique to you I listen I certainly recognize that there's walls up without question. What is that like? Like, what are the walls? Like, do you think it's just they dismiss you? There's some things going on. I mean, I've discussed this with Rebecca, who you met my manager, and a few other people, you know, there's occasions where I'll be totally blanked. Like with the last album I came out with, Jude, which took, you know, in between five and 30 years to write and record. It was old songs and new songs that I wanted to balance the sound. And it was at a time when I'd gone through a lot of changes myself and I had decided to finally call myself be Julian. I'd been John Charles Julian Lennon all my life but everybody

had always known me as Julian even mum and dad called me Julian so I'm like you know I want to be I want to be me finally. So by Deed Pole in 2020, I said, right, I'm going to be Julian now. And the album is going to be called Jude. And the reason I called it Jude was it was finally not only an acceptance, but but actually, what's the terminology? I'm actually taking ownership, should I say, of the name Jude and what that represented for all these years to other people and to me. Anyway, so the album was a biggie for me calling the album Jude for a starters inciting

right hopefully positive things But the weird thing was you know, I did I put this whole band together and I I wanted to as an as a starter to go on all the TV shows that I'd always wanted to appear on. For instance, in England, like Jules Holland, later with Jules Holland, which is the only live music show that I've watched all my life, literally. There's Graham Norton, which I've done their radio shows, which is really, really weird. And we got on like a house on fire and I performed live. And that all went down

well and then it was kind of like, see you on the real show the producers turned me down and you know and and same with a lot of the late-night American shows got got just didn't they weren't interested and I you know I had I had you know I'd done the name change had been away for ten years I'd called the album Jude. You know, there was a lot to talk about, you know, on a great deal more than I'm presenting right now. Anyway, I was turned down and still and that still happens to me, which saddens me because just when you feel like you want to open up, you know, and answer any question you can throw at me, I, you know, I've not been allowed to, not, that's what it's felt like, that I've not been allowed to speak

my piece, whatever that is that is you know on whatever subject matter it's weird it's like the the gatekeeper aspect of it is weird but it's also weird like why not like what what would be the hesitance it's this the idea of the son of a great man you know and there's this weird we have a dismissal and I'm very guilty of it yeah the son of a great man I was like that guy's fucked yeah yeah he's fucked yeah the burden is too high yeah yeah your dad was John Lennon yeah yeah iconic well you and I think with a lot of people they don't want anybody to interfere with that mmm you know I mean how dare the you know, the Sun come along and even try and Be better in any way shape or form or be as good as or whatever whatever. Yeah, you're immediately dismissed

Which is what which is why you know to a certain degree photography really appealed to me number one cuz I And the reality is I prefer it behind the camera. I don't mind being a goofball once in a while doing in front of the camera things, but I'm not really comfortable there. But behind the camera and traveling is what I've... I have a foundation called the White Feather Foundation. And we try to help people all over the world and it

started I know that you have interest in indigenous cultures and I don't know if you know the backstory to this to the White for the Foundation at all okay so here we go okay I was on tour with probably my most, at least outside of America, most well-known song. It was at number one and top ten in countries all over the world except for America. And it was called Saltwater. And Saltwater is about environmental and humanitarian issues. And I was number one in Australia. I was doing

all kinds of shows. I was doing promo and tour as well. And I found myself in Adelaide and I got this call from the hotel management saying, excuse me, Mr. Lennon, but there's an Aboriginal tribe down here with TV crews who want to say hi. And I thought it was like an on-the-road prank. I said, yeah sure, sure, why would they be coming to see me? You know, and they called back and they said, no no, no no, this is serious. Can you come down please? And so I think TV crews Aboriginal tribe, what's this about? And so I kind of get doled up a little bit because I don't know what the TV shows are or cameras. Yeah, I go down. And in the lobby, there's a little platform and about 30 people, half of them indigenous, TV crews, bunch of other

stuff. And I honestly have no idea what it's about. And this woman who was the elder of this particular tribe called the Moaning people walked up to me and presented me with a male swan's white feather, which is about yay big, and said, you know, can you help us? You have a voice, can you help us? And I just kind of went, well, you know, do I just continue being the rock and roller or do I step up to the plate? Whatever that means. And so I said specifically did they want help with well, I'll tell you initially, you know,

I didn't know what the what their problems were. I imagined that it would be the same as most other indigenous tribes around the world that have had issues, you know And they said they said, you know, can you help us and I said, you know, I'll do it for the children So I guess what I was saying is the next generation I can you know try and anyway, so I I That this woman was called Irish she was the elder. She's since passed in the last year or so. But I spent ten years making a documentary with a best friend Kim Kindersley who initiated this whole thing. We made a documentary called Whale Dreamers. Independent, we had no money really behind it, no sponsorship. We won about eight international independent film awards, which was great. But the backstory to this is that

Dad had said to me, and I couldn't tell you when or where, just was one of those times that we were together He just said that you know if something ever happens to me That I'll let you know that that To let you know that I'm okay or that we're all gonna be okay We'll be in the form of a white feather whoa so When I when that woman presented me with a white feather,

you know, the goosebumps came on heavy. I get them now every time I talk about the story. I'm getting them right now. So yeah, there she is. There's Iris and there's Bonner, who's one of the other guys. That is so crazy. I still have that. I still have that in the original envelope that she gave it to me.

And it's, you know, it's in a very special place at home. I mean, you can talk all about coincidences. coincidence. Oh, no, listen, that for me, I'm sorry, that was undeniable, regardless of where my faith or spirituality or religion was. To me, that was, this is real. This is as real as it gets. It's funny because people would, people love to dismiss these things, like, oh, hogwash. Oh, it's just coincidence. Oh, it could have been a variety of different things. But the reality is mathematically, like, what are

the odds? Just what are the odds that you would be contacted by an indigenous tribe and they would bring you the very thing that your father said he would provide you as proof. Yeah and I was in Australia number one at the time with Saltwater the most environmental humanitarian song I've ever written or performed you know. Right. Yeah so I said yeah I'll do what I can so we did make the film and then with the advent of of course the internet I I thought okay, let's we will put a website together to to sell the film makes a you know and and And I'd also said to my business manager. I said if we make anything on this. I said I want everything to go back to the Moaning

people and he said the only way that that can happen is if you have a foundation. So initially the foundation was just a vehicle just to pass money along but I started the White Feather Foundation to have, again, a vehicle to sell the film. And then slowly but surely, I would start getting these emails from people over the years, over time, sorry, saying, well, can you help us? And I'm going, well, I'm not really a foundation. I did this project, and I thought that was it.

Anyway, there were a few other, there was lots of emails and I finally said, well, you know, all right, this is a platform. Let me see if I can. Okay, what am I interested in? What can I do? What I, you know, there's plenty of other charities out there. There's plenty of other people doing other things, but what can I do? What's most important to me? Indigenous tribes were the first, so the Moaning people, and then in fact in the film itself in Whale Dreamers, Kim, my friend and director, friend and director, had already done a segment of a film where he grouped 80 of the elders of the world's indigenous tribes, 80 from around the world, around a fire and just film them to talk about their plight and what they had in common and the fact that their cultures and land were being taken away from them, being destroyed, etc. etc. So

that became one of the first orders of the day, protect the Moorning, protect indigenous tribes around the world, try to buy back their lands and protect their cultures and their people and try and support them in whatever way we can which is what we continue to do. And I was in Kenya going to different schools and health clinics, mostly girls' schools. I set up a scholarship in my mom's name, the Cynthia Lennon Scholarship for Girls, and so we send them to college and universities where they go to learn how to protect their people and their families and cultures. And so we support, you know, we build health clinics and dormitories and we do it because I mean, the stories that I heard from these girls about having to

walk to and from schools that took three to six hours and they'd be exhausted by the time they got to home or to school and that they, in order to, you know, get ahead, they had to pass, you know, certain exams, but they had the threat pretty much every day of being either raped or murdered, and they would literally stay in their own schools, sleep in the classrooms and convert them to dormitories at night so that they felt protected. I mean it was when they went home they were doing you know three hours of chores every night before they could do any homework and

then go to sleep and then walk to school again. So you'd hear these incredible stories that you just you just realize how lucky you are. And so we try to help, again, the indigenous. We do help with health and education as far as young kids, young girls cross Africa, Kenya and Ethiopia. And also my last trip was to Colombia, to South America, to visit the Koji tribe, who were these insane people that chewed the cocoa leaves. But they used to be fishermen years ago before the Spanish arrived in the 1600s and chased

them off into the Sierra Nevada mountains. Is it coca leaves or cat? Yeah, it's coca leaves. Coca leaves. Yeah, yeah, and they chew it and mix it with spit. Oh boy. Yeah, they're all off their heads really. But they still have this beautiful culture,

and I was only there for a few days, and we were up in the mountains with them. There's another group, there's an NGO, another group called the Amazon Conservation Team who the White Feather Foundation worked with and we went down there and was able to buy back some of their land and we did a couple of ceremonies with them which were very, very beautiful. But one of the most, probably one of the happiest moments of my life, and I've only mentioned this once or twice,

was that we came back down from the mountains, and we came to the sea where we were staying in huts, and the Koji tribe came down with us. Lit a fire on the beach. The sun was just going down and there was no phones, no computers, no nothing. And we were just sitting on the beach. And the fires between myself and the Koji tribe. And the sun's just going down and the waves are right in front and it's just very beautiful. Nobody on the beach, old beautiful beaten up tree trunks that have washed up on the shore and just a little haze from the water and the sand being blown.

And there was a piece that I can't explain. I looked over at them and through the flames of the fire, we just smiled. There was no words. It was just some level of peace that had been found just living in that moment, that present moment, and then the sun going down and then because there's no streetlights or anything else around, you saw every star in the sky possible. And so with that transition, hanging out with this, one of the oldest tribes in South America with the fire, with the sea, with the sky and the stars. There was, I can't even describe it, it was one

of the most loving and most peaceful moments of my entire life. The simplicity of it. It was actually the simplicity of it all and just a human heart and the appreciation For the world that we live in and it's like well, that's partly why I do what I do You know even with the photography is capturing those moments There's once in a lifetime moments and the other thing was Is that how I started doing photography is when I was on the road a lot you do these real long-haul flights you know to America or

to Asia or wherever and back in the day you only had one movie on a projector that was it you know you didn't have TV screens or the iPhones or anything to watch anything, you know So once the movie was done and you'd have to bit, you know, a bit of food or whatever That was it. Most people would go to sleep. I would always be twitching, of course so I'd be looking out the window and staring at the clouds and and I would I realized that you know, what I was seeing was literally just moments. And they would never be again. They would be gone. Fleeting. That's it.

Whatever that cloud, that light, that shade, that shadow, the color, the beauty of that, the enormity of it as well was, so I started taking pictures of clouds. And I just thought that at these moments while everybody else was asleep on the plane, I'd be sitting there looking out, either thinking about everything that was on my mind in the world, yeah, or I'd be thinking of Or I'd be thinking of nothing at all, and I'd just be at peace. And again, like that moment in Colombia,

just absorbing everything that I found to be beautiful that was surrounding me. So clouds were my thing at first. That was my moment to either get away or think about everything, you know. But mostly that kind of element of freedom and space and just, am I the anyone seeing this? Everybody else is asleep.

So. Everyone's distracted. Yeah, so I started taking pictures of clouds and then I knew a few rock and rollers so I started taking pictures of clouds and then you know I knew a few rock and rollers so I started taking pictures of those two and then one thing led to another because I'd go on these trips to Ethiopia with great organizations like Charity Water and again Kenya and South America and a number of other places. I just would take a camera with me because for the, and I have to confess and I've said

this a few times, I have the worst memory of anybody I know. Absolute terrible. Absolutely terrible. And so in a way this was taking a camera with me was to catalog what was going on. And it was only when I got back home I put them on the screen and I go oh that's quite a nice picture. Oh that's not so bad. What if I just did this that and the other. And so I started making collections of my journeys which eventually became my website and my photography. You know, I've never done a paid gig as such,

and I've never used nothing that was natural light or present light, so I've never set anything up. I've always tried to, again, get that moment, whatever it was. And then, you know know I had the opportunity I know I've gone in a bit of a roundabout circle but that you know they the the publishers came to me earlier this year saying do you want to do a book and I'm thinking well yes and how do I do this and and because a lot of people don't know I'm a photographer in any way, shape or form,

I thought, okay, can I make it a retrospective? Can I make it all the stuff that I'm interested in? Because often as a photographer or even a musician you get, well, what is your favorite thing? What do you take pictures of? What are your songs about everything right why do they you know that's that you know the idea of being pigeonholed in any way shape or form horrifies me me too so this was a way for me to show my work and it was a bit of a nightmare too because I had decided with the onset of this exhibition I'd been offered in Venice at this museum alongside Helmut Newton no less, why don't I try and marry the two so I have the book come out at the same time as the exhibition?

Now that meant working on the book like an absolute fruitcake madman on crack. I mean we were doing 9 to 12 hours a day virtually because he was based in the guy who I was working with from the publishers was based in Berlin and I was where I was so this would be virtual back and forth trying to figure out what makes a photography book great. It was something else, we did it in a couple of weeks, it was insane and the hardest job of it all was because I used to shoot anywhere between 150 and 100 pictures for a collection. I was never one of those that had like a limited edition of four or ten pictures. Again, this was just a catalogue of the work of what I'd seen and the charity stuff But then I had to you know in those moments I had to learn how to

Make a collection of 50 pictures Five pictures. I'm going well, how the hell do I do that? how am I gonna do that so it's being able to tell the same story of 50 pictures in five pictures the problem is you know about the other 90 pictures. Well of course and as I keep saying they're all my babies so you know it's what it makes you realize is okay what's the truth what's the really really really important message I'm trying to get across here what am I trying to say what am I trying to express here? You know, because half the time I just feel like a, you know, a

messenger really. I'm just capturing something and I'm sharing it. And the reason I say that is because once I started getting into this, a lot of the earlier emails I had were from disabled people or people that didn't have money that couldn't travel around the world and they would say well you're bringing this to us you know by taking these photos you're showing us your journey and where you've been and these indigenous tribes and this and that I'm going that's pretty that's really quite special. That's really You know really quite special because you're taking on another role

Because I try not to I've in whatever profession I've done whether it's documentary work or Books or children's books or music. I never try and shove things down people's throats. I just present things and you take what you want from them. So the idea was to put a book together that just showed the world as I'd seen it through those journeys that I've been on. And what happened was that when we got the go-ahead for this exhibition, which was only earlier this year, I Was thinking how am I gonna do that and that was gonna I decided to make that a retrospective too But how do I then chop that many pictures down? to that of this exhibition

Again I to that of this exhibition. Again, I, funnily enough, the book became my guideline. So what I'd learned in the editing process of putting the book together, I now looked to that and the book to see how I could present the work on the larger scale in a museum and which was bonkers you know and this this all happened this year so it's like okay all right I you know I'm going for the ride with her you know I obviously want it but but you know when it all hits you at once it's it's quite something else it's It's been a full on, full on busy, busy year.

And there's been music involved too, and other documentary film projects, which you'll probably hear about next year. So it's probably been, weirdly, one of my busiest years. Even though I- It seems like you're enjoying yourself though. I'm alive. You know, that's, I think that's for me, that's, you know, people say, how are you? I'm alive. And I have always gone with things that have been presented to me organically. Anytime I've ever fought that or been pushed into situations, generally

never works out. I think for everybody that's true. Yeah. So I feel fortunate in that these things have come along and I've been in the right headspace, thankfully, to go, yes, I want to do this, you know? When you started shooting, did you take classes in the technical aspects of photography? No, I don't have a clue. So did you, what kind of cameras are you using?

How did you learn how to use them? I didn't. I didn't. You just like figured out how to use them? I didn't. I didn't. You just like figured out how to focus them? Same, same with music. I play by ear. Not a clue how to read or write music. Really?

Yeah. And this, I tell you, this is one of my fears is that, and I'll come back to this, but because I'm not a practicing musician, well I haven't been for years anyway because of all the other work that I do, so if I'm not on the road and I'm not practicing and I've got a terrible memory I forget. And so you know I've been cornered a few times and people say, come on, pick up the guitar or play the piano, give us a song. I couldn't.

Wow. I couldn't even if you gave me a million bucks tomorrow. I couldn't do it. My memory just doesn't work that way. And so, if, and this is by my manager and I, Rebecca, we keep having chats about going on the road. I said, listen, if we're going to do this, then this is a lot of work for me. I have to relearn how to play my own songs and my lyrics, and I kid you not.

Wow. But you also have to relearn self-taught. Yeah. Yeah. So what would you do? Like, have you done that in the past where also have to relearn self-taught. Yeah, yeah. Right, so what would you do? Like have you done that in the past where you had to relearn? Yeah, well, yeah, I mean the last tour I did with the album, everything changes. How do you scale it? Like how do you get going? You just have to get in the room. So you just get in the room and start fucking around with the guys.

You know, the band that you put together, generally I'll have one or two friends in the band. And I have generally played rhythm guitar or a bit of piano for a couple of songs, but I have to relearn everything. And then lyrics. How long does it take to relearn everything I mean it's it's it's and then how long lyrics how long does it take to relearn well when we were we were we were actually setting up as I said to do a bunch of TV shows to promote the album and I was quite surprised about how quickly because the band was so good I walked into the room

they had the songs down already and I just went oh fuck, shit I'm screwed. So that means again I have to step up to the plate and it was just a question of being in there every day remembering learning the chords going over it over it over again and of course when I'm with all this stuff that we were going to perform was all new material because when I write a song, you know, if I've written the basics of a song in an hour or two, you know, it's all there and then written the lyrics and then produced it, recorded it, and it's done, that's the one and only or couple of times that I'll have ever played it. So it's almost a new song to me every time I come back to it. It's a real weird one. So for the photography, I just took along basically a really good quality automatic

camera that took the shots. Did you know what you were buying or did you just go buy one? No I mean help you? No I'd ask a few friends like Timothy White say you know what could I use if I'm running around and so I took their advice and I started with a very simple camera that was autofocus and all compact and I didn't have to change lenses and that's one I did for a trip around the South China Seas on a boat trip. I just took this one camera in my backpack and hope for the best and I had a show here at Leica in LA because it was a Leica camera which was about 50 images of

the trip that I did. So but I think where my strength lies in photography is weirdly the technical side obviously but capturing that moment. I tell you the one thing about the woman that's on the cover of the book so that's she is now the princess of Monaco. Originally Charlene Whitstock and I'd met her a couple of times and I met Prince Albert a couple of times and I got this call literally the day before they were getting married from a mutual friend saying Charlene loves your photography she wants you to come and shoot the show. What? Yeah, she wants you to come down to where she is getting ready for the civil wedding tomorrow and she wants you to take pictures. Wow. I mean, you want to talk about anxiety and crapping yourself? So excuse me.

I arrive at the hotel where she and all the maids of honor are sitting, sitting in the lobby and I've got a backpack and one, one camera and I've tried to dress myself up a little bit. I don't know what's going to happen. I had to go through several layers of security, you know road blocks and all this to get there, which was nerve-racking to say the least anyway. And then the likes of Patrick de Machelier, you know one of the best photographers in the world walks in with you know the suitcase trolleys you know those ones at the hotel aren't the big ones on wheels

with all his equipment on three or four trolleys and there's I've got a backpack you know anyway I go upstairs I'm placed in front of her in a room probably about similar to this size and she's sitting there completely blanked out in front of the mirror with the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistant and their assistant, the makeup artist, the makeup artist's assistant. Is that you? Yeah, that's me. Yeah. Yeah so I'm in the book a few times that'll be a questionnaire at one that'll be a quiz at one

point how many times am I in the book. I don't even know myself to be honest. But I sit next to her and you've got all these people, 20 people in a room this size doing things trying to get her ready. Ten minutes before she's getting married and they put me on this little poof next to her. I'm sitting next to her and she's, and I'm saying, are you okay? Should I just take pictures? She said, Jules, I'm not sure what to do. I don't know what to do.

I'm going, what do you mean? You don't know what to do about the marriage or me taking pictures? I can't, you know, I couldn't. Right, right. She said, no, no, Jules, you know, the photos. I said, listen, this is historic. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity

to record what's gonna happen to you. You know, and exciting for me too to be a part of that as a photographer. And so I said, listen, I'll keep out the way. I'm a fly on the wall. You know, I won't be anywhere on it. And I was thinking, how am I gonna do this? How do I do this and so

I just start I just let people get on and I'm taking pictures and I get a message from Vogue, Vogue.com who want a photo from me the moment she's married. I'm thinking okay I'll just keep snapping away at whatever I do and I watch the civil wedding and then I get on my bike go home and I start putting things up on my on the screen and I'm looking at pictures going I've got fuck all I've got shit I can't this looks like crap to me and this happens to me every time every fucking time and I'm looking at the pictures going they look terrible they really really look blurred and fucking this and that and badly positioned and I'm cursing myself and

I'm cursing myself and the one thing that I remembered that she said to me is that, look, whatever you do, don't let any picture have me drinking or smoking in it. And I went, oh, okay. And the one thing that Vogue said to me is we want to see her smiling. And the one picture where she was smiling and she had champagne in her hand and she had a cigarette. So OK I was not a Photoshop kind of guy but I managed to get rid of the cigarette. I'm thinking OK how do I get deal with the champagne shit. But I managed to get rid of the cigarette. I'm thinking, OK, how do I get deal with the champagne shit? And then the one thing occurred to me.

I thought, OK, I'll do it. I'll desaturate it. Not black and white, but it'll have an there'll be elements of tones. I'll make it, you know, so you can't see that it's champagne. And I did that and I cropped it in a certain way and I went, that's it. Why didn't I think of this before? You know 1930s, 40s, 50s, Princess Grace, black and white, old school. So then I turned every picture I had black and white, well desaturated version similar to black and white of of the whole collection I had of her and and cropped it in a way that it was like

1950s magazines you know it's just certain angles and a different look in a different field. Was she okay with the champagne being in the photo? Well it was it didn't look like champagne, it just looked like fizzy water and because they on the side there had been bottles of fizzy water and still water so I went that's that's cool. She had to give me the the okay to do that you know when we decided that should be the cover of this book you know I had to get her approval. I mean, I already had approval for, you know,

having her pictures in a collection or a box set, but not on the front cover of a book that may do well. You know? Have you ever been to Disneyland? Yeah, oh God. Do you know all the pictures of Walt Disney have his cigarette photoshopped out of his hand? No, I did not know. Yeah, in every picture you see him like this. Is that so?

See if you can find some of those pictures because it's really interesting once you know that they photoshopped it There's a guy that we've had as a tour there. Shout out to Flandre Awesome guy works there and he gave us this sort of history of Walt Disney and Walt Disney died of lung cancer, which you would think it would be probably a good thing to have the cigarettes so people could know, oh, that poor guy, that's what killed him. But instead they've decided to whitewash it and Photoshop. So all of his photographs, see, look at his fingers are always in a position where he would have a cigarette All of them and so

Those those real moments of him having a cigarette or loss for his idea was it to get rid of the cigarette Disneyland You know Disneyland Yeah, I mean, let's see if there's a person it says there. It says the action seemingly innocuous at first but it's apparently a murky tribute to Walt Disney's smoking habits with the company side stepping around the reason as to why the icon pointed that way writes Huff Post. It's been long speculated about the anonymous employee was informed by a lead that the strange gesture from the cast members of Disney Park is actually based on Walt's old smoking habit. So people do that two-finger gesture to each other?

Yeah. That's crazy. Alleged began training employees to do the same thing. Part tribute to the great man, part rewriting history. So they tried to pretend that that thing that he was doing, like Tom Hanks when he played him, he did that thing with his finger. But it's all bullshit. It was a cigarette smoker. Like a constant cigarette smoker. Oh yeah, I was one of those.

Is there any photos of him with a cigarette? You're talking about it in 2014. No, that's me, that's funny. Well that's when I found out about it. That's when Flandre gave us a tour. They stopped doing it then, right around then. Oh, gotcha. I gotcha, bitch.

I got them all to stop doing it. Because it's fucking stupid. Like the guy smoked cigarettes. Yeah, smoking cigarettes is bad for you. He died from smoking cigarettes. You should probably let people know it's you're doing a disservice to the whole world. Yeah, you know, for sure. And also it's, you know, it's a part of history and the fact that so many people were unaware of the dangers of smoking cigarettes all day. And it's so insanely addictive. I used to be an insane smoker.

Yeah. How'd you quit? Cold turkey. Wow. Yeah, I'd be one of those guys that would wake up at four in the morning and light up a cigarette and then go back to sleep. Or I'd take about two or three packs out with me every evening.

Really? Oh yeah, because I knew half of the people would nick half of my cigarettes, so I wanted to have backup. Now, when the whole no smoking law came in, you know, Italy was one of the first. Really? know Italy was one of the first really and Ireland yeah it was I think it was California that initiated it and then Europe took it on board and it was actually Italy and Ireland and I was in both of those places and it was extremely weird to go into any especially in Italy and Ireland in the pubs and for it to be a smoke-free environment. Mmm

that was just so weird because it was part of the norm of back in the day that you'd be in a cloud of Stinky cigarette smoke. Yeah, that was any of those locations are norm at comedy clubs. Yeah Yeah, I would go home from comedy clubs every night smelling like cigarettes always for sure the whole audience Yeah, and as a smoker you don't think you're not conscious of how Other people how you stink as well, right? You know because it was funny I went when I

quit cold turkey I did it I did it because I didn't want anybody to tell me I couldn't smoke such a brat that's why you quit cold I quit cold turkey because I wanted to be I wanted to tell myself I couldn't smoke not for you to tell me I couldn't smoke. Mmm. How rough was it? Uh, that's what, uh, brought me down into a depression for a couple of years. Really?

Oh yeah, because I, I, listen, I started smoking at the age of probably 11 or 12 as part of my local gang, you know, that I used to be in as a kid. Um, that's what you did. You know, you nicked a Siggy's from your parents and you'd found the back of the school and that

was part of the initiation you know the part of growing up so and I loved it because for me when I became noticed as a musician. Again, with my anxiety, and I was a very shy kid, very, very shy kid. Still can be at times, depending on how I feel that day. But I would, yeah, I would, the cigarette for me was my best friend. You know, I'd go to a bar and I'd be able to, I'd be the, you know, not the cool guy at the bar, but certainly that would be my way of not having to interact with people. Right.

You know, I'd just sit there and, you know, be a rocker and smoke my ciggy and down my Jack Daniels and it was like, leave me the fuck alone. You know, unless I, you know, unless I wanted to talk. So that was the groove back then. And then when I gave that up, you know, instantly, it was like, what do I do? How do I fill in that void? Well, I actually had to speak to people. Cause of depression?

Well, no, no, no. It was actually, I feel it was definitely a chemical thing because again, I was smoking couple of packs a day. I loved smoking. And the weird thing- Did you consider going back just to alleviate the depression? I was actually a business manager friend of mine at the time said saw me at one stage and said Jules pick up Seriously, I said you're gonna you're gonna die the way you're going Wow

Pick up a cigarette because you're gonna die without it. Yeah, that was literally his sentiment Wow, and it was a few years where it was very, very dark and it was the cigarettes. No question about it. Did you try patches or gum? Yeah, I did all of that stuff. Did it help? Not really. You know, I loved that deep inhale. And it's the delivery method. Yeah. It's different than anything else. The thing was I would still challenge most good singing friends of mine That I could Hold my breath or do

Lengths in a swimming pool underwater and hold my breath better than anybody else, which I was able to and It's because I was such a deep, deep smoker. When I inhaled, I really, really inhaled. So it was like lung exercises? Literally, literally. And I, you know, I remember going for my certain, yeah, seriously, I consider myself a shallow breather now in comparison, except for when

I go on these kind of power walks, you know, trying to get it all in anymore. But yeah, I know I bought a little apparatus, which I still haven't, I've been procrastinating about it, but it's an exercise. I have one of those. Yeah, to expand. It's an O2 trainer. There you go. You put little lenses on it.

You just change the inhalation volume. Back and forth. So you just train to... My friend Boss Rutten created one. Very good. I know that they work. I just haven't gotten around to it. Just breathing exercises alone are great. Yeah. You can achieve some very bizarre altered

states of consciousness through breathing exercise. Well, when I was, I mean, I, you know, the, the COVID experience was very, very different for very many people. And where I was in Monaco and France, you weren't allowed to leave your house without written paperwork to the police that you were going out for one hour and you could only go within one kilometer unless you were gonna get groceries where you could only go out for a limited amount of time

if you didn't have the paperwork with you, you'd be fined and so I you know, I Started doing using quite a few apps to calm myself and and take on deep breath and a deep focus because I and take on deep breath and deep focus because I felt trapped, especially as someone who loved walking, who loved biking, who loved exploring,

all of that stuff and I couldn't move. And here's the really annoying thing, was that where I was, was quite close to the sea, couple of hundred yards away. where I was was quite close to the sea, couple of hundred yards away. But as I said, I could only be in a one kilometer circle from where I was, but half of that was in the sea. So I could walk left and right to try and get 5K in back and forth, you know, at least 5K to try and get a good walk in.

But you weren't allowed on the beach, which was the most to sit there and contemplate and breathe and just, you know, try and relax. One of the healthiest things you can do. Yeah, you couldn't, you weren't allowed to do that. Everyone lost their fucking mind. And it was really strange in California. They were arresting people. The coast guard was arresting people for surfing. Like, I know it's insane.

I remember going on my first power walker along a peninsula. that's about 15 minutes out of Monica and it's somewhere I go every once in a while and it was a really quite blustery day and it's right along the coastline rocks high winds the whole thing and I'm walking in the power along thinking, I'm finally free. I'm finally free. Good. Anyway, so along the path ahead of me about a quarter of a mile, I see a number of bobbing heads.

Okay. And I wasn't wearing a mask. You had to wear a mask even when you're up power walking on your own. Because of science. Of course, genius. Well, let's not get into that. But yeah, and so over the ridge they come. And I notice that one of the person at the front

is wearing a police hat. Oh great. And so, I'm trying to scramble putting my mask on and he's taking out going for a run with a bunch of trainers, trainees, you know, about eight other people from the police force and they're all gunned up and truncheoned and everything else. And the guy's going off on me in French saying, where your fucking mask? You know, you should have done that. And I'm going, and he says to me,

yeah, I understand a little bit, a good amount of French, and I can speak a little bit, but I, he said, who are you with? And I'm looking around. There's nobody for half a mile anywhere near me and he's asking me, who am I with? And I'm thinking, what's that about? This is the weirdest scenario. I'm in the middle of nowhere on a rocky peninsula and he's asking me who I'm with and there's nobody and you know if to put my mask back on otherwise, I'd be in trouble And it was just the most surreal

peculiar Circumstance to be you know, well you could have never imagined it before the pandemic You could have never imagined a scenario where people will be that illogical. Wearing a mask outside, illogical. Not being able to go to the beach, illogical. I still love the fact that you see people sitting on their own in cars today wearing a mask. Oh yeah. Well if you go to Los Angeles, my friend just went to a party and he sent me a photograph. He's like, I'm at a Hollywood party, everyone's wearing a fucking mask.

These people are in a cult. Like it's very, first of all, if you haven't read the house, the 500 page synopsis on what all went wrong with COVID, everyone should read it. Just understand the whole six feet distance, all that stuff is all made up. It's all bullshit. Masks don't work., don't work unless you have like a face-fitting Mass and even that you're getting oxygen in the the particle like viral Particles in the oxygen are smaller than vape particles, right? Like if you vape with one of those things on then put it out and then or you take a big deep breath Put the mask on the vape will come right through the fucking mask. So will the virus right? Like this is not real. You're you're

pretending and it's forced compliance Illogical force compliance which was very disturbing It was very disturbing to for me to see how many people were reinforcing that too. How many people were yelling at other people. It gave people a wonderful opportunity to be assholes where they could yell at people for not having a mask on. But outside? Really? Yeah, the logic. It was out the window. But it was also really fascinating to watch human nature. The human nature of first of all that people really do enjoy controlling people Oh, you really do enjoy telling people what the rules are and punishing people who disobey the rules

Even if they don't make any sense and then also watching people comply knowing it's illogical and and being upset at everyone that Points out that it's illogical that doesn't make any sense Like you're the enemy because you're not going along with it. You're making it harder for us. We have to get through this. Like, is this real? Yeah, yeah.

Strange. Yeah, no. Yeah, stay away from everybody. That's the only solution. Or go to a place, well, I came here. They didn't embrace any of that. Like I was in Los Angeles, which is like the most compliant place. Everybody was all in all in on the public narrative that was being expressed in mainstream

media, all in on, you know, everybody who denies it is an anti science person, and you're anti this and enter that and just get that vaccine and just get on board with this Beautiful little thing we're gonna do we're gonna get through this together as long as everyone complies And if you don't comply and if your neighbors aren't complying, here's a number you can call You'll start ratting out their neighbors It was like a it was a program that they the mayor of Los Angeles ran like normally snitches get stitches Yeah, but this way snitches get rewards like they're giving you money giving people money to rat out their neighbors for having parties

Yes, beyond messed up Strange and it doesn't seem real like my friend a song eager as well Oh, yeah club eager so happy they're part of it. My friend is on Found a pair of pants that he was in his apartment, and he pulled out a mask out of the pocket. It's like, fuck, when was the last time I wore these? There's a mask.

And when you see a mask, and you realize, I had a mask that was in my truck that was in one of the back little compartments on the side, just happened to be sitting there, and I was cleaning the truck, and I'm like, look at this fucking stupid thing. Well, just this was just two years ago Yeah, you had to have these things you want to get on a plane seems like a bad dream. It does It's like Disney and the fucking the cigarettes like are they gonna Photoshop out all these people's masks?

It's all a bit surreal. I mean so strange it really is. It's all a bit odd Well, I still don't get it I don't get any of it. You shouldn't hopefully these viruses. No, especially though least Don't wind up becoming the next one. I used to think there's no way that people would want that to happen I'm not so sure anymore. No after this last go-around. I'm like boy They might be like sinister factors at work here that I don't know last go-around, I'm like, boy, there might be like sinister factors at work here that I don't... Oh, without question. Yeah. I'm sure of that. And I was unwilling to ever think that way before. I was like, come on, that's stupid.

No one's that evil. No one would do that just for profit. And now I'm like, I don't know. Of course they are. They probably would. Oh, they would. Yeah, they would no question so strange so strange and then you know that I think the frustration of the overcomplicated overregulated over controlled world is Probably what accentuates the experience of you being in South America with fire looking at the stars.

Yeah. You know, because there's a purity to that, that especially no phones, no computer, no screens, no nothing, just human beings enjoying an experience on the planet. It's funny because I'm in the process of moving. I mean, I still have my base in Monaco, but the place, the little place I had outside. I'm a lot of my later teenage years were, mom remarried a couple of times, but we were, we were in in North Wales I don't know if you're familiar with North Wales or Wales in general. No, it's mountains, you know sheep and mountains and So Yeah, I we lived in farmland on farmland and I used to work on a farm too

So I I loved and that's where I actually learned how to ride a motorbike you know on farmland and through rivers and Enduros and stuff like that. And so I've always loved that element of countryside. I always like the the excitement of a city and the people and the energy, but there's also that other side of peace and quiet and birdsong and running water. Yeah, yeah. And so the key is like a little bit of New York City, a little bit of mountains. That's the key to life. Yeah, so I'm in the process of, I've just, and I hate this terminology, forever home. But I certainly think it's a place that I'll be for a while.

Do you hate the terminology of home? No, forever. This is going to be my forever home. Oh yeah. Yeah, I like moving. I really enjoyed moving here. I like getting up and just being in a new place Yeah, I think it's good for the brain. I think I I'd been at the same place for over

26 years through some Very good things but some pretty dark moments as well Whether that's relationships or friendships and things like that and I finally decided a few years to go. I need to change where you going I I'm very close by I mean, I'm literally 15 minutes away, but it's just a different environment I'll be in the mountains. Okay surrounded by you know Beautiful old oak trees and Walking paths and I mean, I I know I sound like I'm going

turning old all of a sudden. No you sound like someone who appreciates beautiful things. I just want I you know and the funny thing is when I went to see this place for the first time my shoulders just dropped. And it was I don't want to leave here. You know, the rest of the world seemed very alien after walking onto this property. I just went, okay, a couple of acres of land surrounded by beautiful old trees and peace and quiet. I have thoughts on that. I think that nature is a vitamin

that we don't know we need absolutely and then no question about it yeah you get it and then you're filled up I mean that also the whole you know tree hugging earth thing yeah you know I believe absolutely 100 it's real it's real it's it feel better I mean I mean scientifically proven that it uh yeah we have a connection to earth that's been muted by our shoes correct this is very very true yeah it's weird it's weird to think that way but it's absolutely correct you know you can uh I'm and I I have done this too that you can get

earthing sheets yeah that you can get earthing sheets. Yeah I don't know. I you know, I sleep on one. I don't know if it works or not Probably does something but yeah, but what that's I don't know just get outside Yeah, I think get outsides the move and if you get outside barefoot, it's even better. This is very true The other day I was playing with my dog in the backyard and I was throwing the ball for him and he just decided, sometimes, he's kind of lazy, sometimes he just decides to lay down so I just sat down with him and it was this amazing moment of him just wagging his tail, you know, me petting him and just sitting in the yard, just trees and birds and just... That's it. It's beautiful. That's it. It was a a beautiful peaceful moment that I just experienced with my dog that's it two of us chillin that's it really

really it was a beautiful moment I was thinking in them in that time like this is so simple it's just a simple beautiful moment and you know if you try to explain it to people it most people are probably not gonna get it okay yeah you're in your dog you love your dog like that's not it No, it's like it was just life. It was just like this moment of life Just recognizing and also not thinking about anything else, which is also beautiful not thinking about Gaza Yeah, I think it's about that little moment of appreciation here. And now thank you very much How how that can be beyond beneficial to you on a number of levels.

But then even explaining that, unfortunately, has been co-opted by the term mindfulness, which is so often used by grifters and like fake gurus and dorks and just, it's one of those words that you say it you're like mindfulness yeah I hate saying it yeah yeah a spiritual person oh shut the fuck up shut the fuck up I can't take it you know it's like I get it but those terms are valuable it's like the term God it's like it's a valuable term love is a valuable term yeah but so often they just get ruined just by insincerity or just by people who use it as a way to define themselves. For sure. Hijacked. They've been

hijacked. Yeah, which is very sad actually because... Yeah, we could take it back. Probably. Take it back from those hijackers fuck them I mean Yeah, I mean there's do you know Alex Gray is no Alex Gray is a visionary artist He does a lot of like very very intricate psychedelic pieces that are like iconic He's very famous in like the psychedelic world His stuff is really you know I've seen I'm sure yeah, okay very very famous in like the psychedelic world. His stuff is really, really beautiful. Oh, you know what? I've seen... I'm sure you have. He's very, very famous.

Oh yeah. But we were talking about this and he said that he took the term God back because he's like, I think the term God has been co-opted by this idea of these totalitarian religions that impose very strict rules and dogma on people. He's like I don't think we should stop using that word just because of that. I think we can kind of take that word back. It would be good to. Yeah well I think he kind of has. He actually has a church. Really? Yeah and it's like you got to go through a whole thing and acquire, you know, tax exempt status. But his church is this insane building that is all 3D printed with

his type of psychedelic artwork. So it looks like some insane, like magical spiritual retreat that you would find somewhere like see if we can find where it's called a Chapel of Sacred Mirrors where is this upstate New York absolutely so it's not that far from the city you can get there fairly quickly and it's you know a completely different world and he's got this church up there that's filled with his insane artwork but this church itself is a piece of artwork like the outside of it the way you know itself is a piece of artwork, like the outside of it, the way, you know, he has a lot of these images of these faces that are like multiple,

like multiple sides of faces all connected together. And this is like this. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is the outside of his building. It's really incredible. That's the building. Isn't that amazing? So the building is very, very much like his type of tryptamine inspired art. Where like, you know, you have all these third eyes like in a fractal form, the geometric pattern on the roof and everything is like that. It's really amazing

Phenomenal and you know working on it forever. What is is he professing anything? I don't know what his keep phone is there an order as such. I mean That's Alex when he was very young. Yeah But he's been you know in the sort of psychedelic space and psychedelic art space forever. And he had this incredible place in New York City. And then he decided to do this whole church. Just click it right there and just like play it out. I don't really know what the video is. Okay. It's 20 minutes long. Mm-hmm. I see. So a lot of his, so that's his wife. Is this derived from, yeah, like, yeah, I said the magic, magic mushroom. It says it right there. It comes out of the psychedelic experience. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's been a long time proponent of psychedelics.

Just very, very interesting guy and his artwork is just incredible. Like really, but like probably the most accurate encapsulation of these experiences in, you know, in an artistic form. Really wild stuff. And again, this is, you know, he's the way he's got it set up now. He's in the woods. So he's in this beautiful, like rural area. And then he's got this incredible chapel that's up there. So it's pretty fucking cool. Well, I'm, I'm certainly a believer in other realms that we don't see on a daily basis.

Yeah. Well, it probably should be. I've had a few experiences that would... Whether that's a dream within a dream or whether it's reality, I don't actually know. Well, one of the things that I've talked to about with some pretty insanely brilliant people is quantum computing. Oh yes. And this new Google quantum computer that can do essentially the way a quantum computer works a problem that would take

thousands of years for every computer on earth to solve. I've read that. It can solve in a second. Yeah. Something that can take more years than you literally can understand. It can be solved in 15 minutes. It's insane. And this is where it gets really weird. The way it was explained to me, and we should have to Google how quantum computers work and why people connect them to the multiverse, so I don't fuck this up. But the idea is that they're pulling answers from different universes simultaneously. They don't even completely understand how this is working. But the amount of power in computing is incomprehensible.

Incomprehensible. Like you're only looking at it and there's numbers, you could write all those numbers out, but your brain's not capable of grasping really what's going on. And it's probably the biggest breakthrough technologically in human history by a long stretch. And it's all happening without most people even being aware of what the implications are. So see if you can Google an explanation of how quantum computers work. Was it Marc Andreessen that was explaining to us that it's pulling from different universes?

No, no, that was being talked about in the wording of the willow description, right? But I also just to add when I was reading about this they said that these benchmark numbers are coming off of Google's own data like they're the ones that set like the scale of What some of the quantum? I'm just No, no, I'm just a grain of salt like just to say that like it except I think they use Tillians is the number something like that. No one even can grasp that Yeah, that's just based but that's a number based off of their formula to right. That's right

What is the definition of how it works? That's right. What is the definition of how it works? The way it pulls from multi multi universe. I think I'm trying to find it. But I think the understanding I got from it was it's just too powerful to get from our universe alone. You'd have to have more more than one. And I don't like that's just like what does that mean? Exactly. What does that mean?

Right. What is that thing that they have? And if you've ever seen the chip itself, the chip itself is very small. It's like the size of a saltine cracker. And then this entire mechanism around it is just the insane amount of cooling. Google's quantum AI founder said the performance gains l, excuse me, performance gains lends credence to the idea that we live in a multiverse. The idea is that Willow might be communicating with parallel universes to finish calculations faster. Like what, what does that mean? The announcement led Google's already high stock price to surge, which is't that shocking, but perhaps most surprisingly for us lay people that Google's quantum AI founder and lead

Harmut Nevin said that the chip's performance lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse. And then it says, excuse me? This obviously has caused a bit of a stir and it isn't exactly clear on how he made that leap. It sounds a bit like something out of a sci-fi movie, and I'm definitely not going to pretend I'm an expert, but it's worth pointing out that Google is very much still

in the theoretical research phase of this journey. This is very weird stuff. An evolving scientific field that even people working on it don't fully understand. What? Okay, here's what is a quantum computer. Let's explain this. The computer we use every day and have been iterating on for the past several decades are known or what is known as a classical computer. Essentially a classical computer utilizes binary as its language of choice. A bit in the smallest unit of data that a

computer can store and process is like a light switch. Each bit can only be in a single state at a time on or off which is represented by zero or one. Computers track data based on the language of bits. Literally anything our computers do is based on a network of on-off switches sending a particular signal. A quantum computer is a bit different. If you're familiar with the concept of superposition

or Schrodinger's cat, this won't be too far of a stretch, but a quantum bit or qubit is capable of representing the potential of multiple states at once. Rather than only recording a one or a zero, it records both because it can be both. This allows a chip like Willow, which has 105 qubits, to perform incredibly complicated analytics in a fraction of the time a classical computer could. And how does it work? So let's boil it down to a very small example.

If you have two bits which can return a value of one or zero, there are four potential states that it can be recorded. 00, 01, 11, and 10. If each of these states takes one second to record, it would take a classical computer four seconds to record every position permutation, every possible permutation. A quantum computer made up of two qubits however would be able to send to record the potential of each qubit at once, meaning it could record

all four positions, all four possible states in one second. The real power here is achieved when you add a much higher number of qubits together and try to record every possible state. Once again, something that would take a classical computer far longer can be achieved quickly because a quantum computer can record a number of potential states at once rather than one of a time. Okay, we basically don't know what the fuck we're saying here.

This is just too weird. Okay, so this is what it is. One of the world's most advanced classical computers, okay here it is with this problem. So AI's founder and lead Hartmut Neven said that the new chip had performed a purposefully complicated exercise called a random circuit sampling benchmark in five minutes. One of the world's most advanced classical supercomputers, on the other hand, it would take 10 and then three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, years to perform the same exercise. That's 10 septillion years, which exceeds known time scales in physics and vastly exceeds the age of

the universe. So it can do more time than vastly exceeds the entire age of the universe and it can do it in five minutes. And the reason it could achieve such a monumental improvement in calculating capacity is because Willow is made above a hundred and five qubits and can track the potential of each of those at once Allowing it to record potential data much faster and come to the right answer sooner. So like what is happening? That's too much information. What is what? I get it, but I don't get it what I don't get how does that prove the multiverse or provide? I don't get how does that prove the multiverse or provide evidence that the multiverse is real and that it's getting it from parallel universes?

Like what are we even saying here? It couldn't come up with those answers within the allotted time span that's... Yeah what? I can't even explain. I mean, funnily enough, this is that my brother's into all of this stuff. Sean, he's in simpler language. He would probably be able to explain it to you. Sean, probably. Well, he would give it a shot. He would certainly. I think he was one that was probably explaining it to us. In simpler language, Willow is doing one calculation while an unknown number of Willows in other universes parallel to our own are doing their own calculations and they are sharing that data to avoid needing to

individually do every possible calculation to finish the equation. What the fuck does that mean? How are they sharing data between universes? I don't know ask Nevin Remember this is all theoretical and doesn't prove anything But Nevin is saying that the fact that chip can outperform outperform our best supercomputers by such a wide margin Means that it might have broken Newton's theory of physics Yo, what does it say under that, Jamie? What does this mean for me? Keep that going?

Put that back on? Scroll up a little bit. It's right here. Okay, this is what I wanted to look at. At this point, it's an exciting look at what computing might take one day, but it isn't something you're going to see in your next Pixel phone, quantum chips, you'd be isolated in incredibly specific chambers. Yeah, this is the thing.

It has to be cool to a point where it's colder than outer space, sealed away from any possible signals such as microwaves, radiation, radio signals, etc. for fear of that noise leading to potential mistakes and have specific signals delivered by purpose built wires. Who figured this out? Where are those eggheads? Jesus Christ. How did they even come up with that if that has to be the case? How did they figure out that you have to do that? All of it. That's just brain damage. That's one of the most humbling things that I've found about doing this podcast is realizing how genuinely dumb we are in comparison to the amount of information that's available. No question. And dumb, and I'm saying is like not just uninformed, but incapable even if given the information of grasping exactly what these apex minds are thinking and working on right now, along with at the same time people just

living in Ravello, just having an espresso and a cigarette and getting a slice of pizza. Maybe they realize and they just say fuck it. But it seems like the human race desires all things. The human race desires people like yourself who enjoy photography and travel and this beautiful experience of life, but it also sort of requires people to be at this bizarre cutting edge of science where it seems to be violating the known laws of physics. Like all those things. It hurts my brain. I mean, I'd love to more. Well just think about what we're doing

right now. Just think about what we're doing. I still don't get how a TV works or the radio. I'm still not. How does this work? I'm still back there. What makes this louder? What makes the microphone carry our voice? How is this being encoded into like a form that's going to be instantaneously delivered to millions of people. So millions of people are hearing this right now. Like as it gets to them, not right now, but once it gets released, the millions of people that are hearing this are getting it through the sky on their phone. I resign. I truly resign on that level. I can't, I can't, it doesn't.

No, I can't either, but it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing. It's an amazing time to be alive. I'm fascinated by it every day and that's why with subjects that are happening with AI right now, I find it massively intriguing because there is an element to that that may allow me to understand a great deal more you know before it's too late. I think we're the last of the regular people. It's quite possible. I think this experience that we're having, this experience that you're having like on a motorcycle with no signal, just driving through the countryside like just being alive, I think we're the last of those people. I think what's

next... Even that sounds like a dream though. I know. I mean, just the whole concept of that is dream worthy. Yeah, I mean, I have a number of theories on who we are and where we came from and UFOs. What do you think? Well I you know to some degree I'd always felt even as a as a young kid that the UFOs were us coming back for history lessons basically and that the the vehicles were driven by our minds anyway. But I mean I've seen as Dad had also seen

a UFO, I've clearly seen a UFO. What are you saying? I was actually, here's the weird thing, I was actually on my way to, I think, visit Dad in New York. I think it was New York, which is where he'd seen one on the Upper East Side in an apartment that I visited I went to see him at. He's standing on the roof of this apartment where he was living at the time. And yeah, it's on film. he clearly says this thing came along I can tell you exactly

what it looked like went up the Hudson went under the bridge and then zapped off my experience I've had two experiences but the most profound was funnily enough was one of those flights on good old TWA and I was in the front part of the plane and I'd I was had been given because I was quite young maybe anywhere between eight and ten I don't know maybe. I was going to see dad for one of the first times in the US. And the guy that was escorting me over gave me one of those, first time I'd ever seen them, one of those books that had blank pages. I thought, wow, those are weird.

You know, quite unusual. I'd never seen them over in England before. Just these hardback black covered books with nothing inside. So I had one of those in a coloring set. So I was, I guess, relatively young. Everybody had watched the movie. Everybody had gone to to sleep I was staring at the bloody window as I normally do and I was in front of the wing on the right hand side and I'm just staring out of the stars literally and I kid you not all of a sudden I I see your archetypal UFO with the lights around, light on top, it was silver, you know, reflective metal with white lights all the way, pulsating white lights all the way around.

It stayed there. I can't tell you how long. How far away from the plane was it? It was right there. It was 50 feet. 50 feet from the wing of the plane? Yeah, yeah. In front of the wing of the plane.

Did anybody else notice it? Nobody else was there. Everybody else was asleep. There was no stewardesses. There was no – nobody was around. What about the pilots? I don't – that I don't know. All I know is what I saw.

God, I would have wanted to ask them. I just – I guess I was kind of freaked out or just okay with it. I can't even – How old were you at the time? You know, eight, nine, ten, eleven, something like that. And how big do you think it was? I would say it seemed about... the radius would be about the width of this room. But what happened was, so I watched it for a few seconds, but I knew we were going along somewhere in between 300 and 500 miles an hour. I think the old big old 747s used And it just started doing this, going up at the same speed. And I'm watching it through the window going up and over.

And there was nobody in the seats on the other side. And so I ran to the other side and was at the window like this. And I was at a seat or two in front of where I actually wasn't here. And it came down the other side. This is my mother's life. I came down on the other side and sort of pitched itself there for a few seconds. Proceeded to move forward, what looked like relatively quite slow and then literally just went and disappeared it forward and that was there. And that was at sunrise, literally just turning to sunrise, because I actually, the book I had, I drew the whole thing and the light and what it looked like. Do you still have those drawings?

No, tell me about it. I don't know what happened to that, but as clear as day, as clear as day, my life, my mother's life, I… Did you… and this is gonna sound crazy, did you have a sense that that was for you? That you weren't just seeing something, but that maybe that was for you? I could have taken that angle.

I mean, there's been moments in my life, certainly, that I felt things have happened at a particular time for me to notice things, that it was related to my life experience. I mean, half of the things, I couldn't tell you what they were, but I mean, White Fe the things I couldn't tell you what they were, but I mean, White Feather was an example of that. Where for me, that was undoubtedly a sign,

a relevant sign that made me certainly feel that, and I'd had other experiences, that that was a real connection, a real message indirectly. Yeah. Well, the white feather is so profound. It's so intensely on the nose that it's very difficult to dismiss. And I know there's a lot of hyper- hyper rational people that would like to dismiss it like they are it's just it's a coincidence it's a listen yeah my question is are you sure are you sure you know I don't think we are I think this concept of the divine

this concept of being something else has existed throughout the entirety of human beings. I think there's all kinds of stuff going on. I've seen, I was invited to a location where I was staying and I had this experience where I saw quite clearly, I was on my own again, of course, and I was looking out to the sea, this was down in Mexico, and I was literally just kind of drifting off and I without question At least I believe so I saw To me what looked like Mayan Indians see-through dancing around a fire

And I went fuck I mean I really Kind of got a little scared. I went, what am I seeing? How am I seeing this? Why? Anyway, it was all a bit weird and at the breakfast table the next day, and I'd never been to this place before. I was invited down as a guest and the hostess said, you

know, how did you sleep? Is everything all right? I said, well, I don't want to say anything but I think I saw some see-through Mayan Indians last night. Oh, you didn't know that this was built on a Mayan Indian burial ground? I said shut the front door. She said that freaked me out firstly. Then, of course, she comes back into the room with a tray of artifacts, you know, spearheads and a few other things and other tools that they use. But then she came, she did one better. She came, goes and brings in a book that's a very, very thick book with the generations

of Mayan and civilizations that have been there before. And so she says, you know, have a look. And I'm flipping through the books, the book, and I see the exact headdress and skirt that they were wearing and the exact colors of those headdresses. It was two-tone, it was like an earth color and a sky blue kind of that color. And that's in a particular arrangement on their headdresses and on the skirts. And I said that that's them. And they said, oh yeah, that was a particular era and that's where the property was built on. And I just went, well, okay. All right, to me, I'm sorry, that just says

between that and the white feather. Yeah, and there's one or two other incidences I just went yeah there's so much more shit that we don't know that lives and breathes and exists around and there was something written the other day also whether it's today or yesterday saying that you know our ears and our eyes can only see so much right you know humans right that there exists so much more that we don't have a clue about right so I'm just going okay there's this this if only we have to go back to the idea that eyes didn't exist at one point in time there were single

celled organisms yeah right and then they became multi-celled organisms, and then they developed simultaneous eyesight in the ocean and on land. And then this idea that your eyes allow you to see, so therefore you're seeing everything, is kind of silly. Because before the eyes existed, there was no perception. Not using light, there was no perception, not using light. There was no way you could see things.

So why would we assume that this is all that the senses could potentially interact with, that maybe we just don't have them? And maybe, this is what I've said a lot about, like, psychic communication and telekinesis and all these different things. I think there are emerging properties of human consciousness that haven't achieved a full blown integration yet. And my real suspicion is that the biological evolution is not going to make it there in time and that the technological evolution is going to intervene and push us just like that UFO disappeared in space, just took off.

I have a feeling that the next leap of change that's going to happen with human beings is going to be technologically driven and monumental in a way that you won't be able to even imagine life without it. It's scary, but it's also like it's scary to not be a monkey anymore and to be in a taxi cab. You know, you don't want that to happen. You know, it's scary to not have to walk everywhere and then all of a sudden you're flying in a plane. I would love to be a fly on the wall. Oh my God.

I would have loved, for me, flying the wall would be like ancient Egypt. I would love to see what was going on when they were making the pyramids. Yeah, oh yeah. That's my number one place. The next would be, what was it like when Genghis Khan was running through Asia?

What was that like? You know, those are two. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of unanswered things out there, but I'm a, you know, I make the odd documentaries. So I'm a documentary watcher whenever I can, really. That's sometimes, it's either Anthony Bourdain or a documentary that puts me to sleep most evenings After after watching them not jury, right? But yeah now so I I I'm I thirst for information half the time whether I retain it or not another thing, but I certainly am driven to

Absorb. Yeah what I can. As am I. I think that I try to, especially as I get older, to be more open-minded and less dismissive of all this bizarre stuff like ghosts. Like I think essentially. What's your take? I think certain memories are so potent

and that the energy that's created by these moments is so potent that sometimes it lingers and sometimes it's available and sometimes it's not and it depends on the state of the people, the the state of consciousness that they've acquired, the level of anxiety they're currently experiencing, the level of stress, where they are in the world the solar cycles the fucking I think all these Factors come into play and occasionally people see whispers of the past or maybe it's not even that it's the past Maybe it's those things are happening. They're just not happening in this Level of the multiverse and that all things that have ever happened

are happening simultaneously all at once in this very bizarre structure that the universe is actually made out of. But we're only capable of seeing 3D space, what's currently available, what's in front of me right now, what am I going to eat for dinner? We have a very limited view of this thing that is impossible to grasp. Just like those numbers of septillion, whatever. It's impossible. You can't grasp it. I have a feeling that's everything. I think everything, like

that kung fu movie, everything all at once. I think there's probably a lot to that. There's probably a lot to that this isn't a binary experience. This is probably is a quantum experience. I just hope we get to understand some of it. It's kind of fun to not and kind of fun to speculate. One day. Yeah. But the question is, once you do know, would that be better?

Would it be better? Or is there something? I mean, do you have to know everything? Just give us a hint. You might. Give us a clue. The problem is you might know everything. That's what many say. You're just remembering things. Well that's true too, right? That information is essentially you're pulling it out of the air.

You're pulling ideas out of the air. It's all in the ether. It's who gets there first. Do you feel like that way with your music sometimes? Like that idea is just sort of come to you from the muse. Absolutely. Yeah, I think everybody does. No question about it. Yeah. Even with photography? I think so too. Like there's something that tells you to capture this thing. Yeah. It's going to resonate with people. No question about it. I mean, one of my favorite pictures in the book is one called Hope, and it's of this little girl in Ethiopia. I was actually there to take a photograph of this person who was cutting the ribbon to open a new freshwater well.

And I just heard this noise behind me and we're under a plastic cover. It was sweltering out there. And again because I'm shy and I don't set things up, I maybe it's like a gorilla street shot, you know, and I just I just had this feeling that I needed to turn around and and I did turn around and I just had this feeling that I needed to turn around, and I did turn around, and I just saw this young girl just kind of looking at me like, anything I can say is that, again, that everything's gonna be all right.

For this little girl there to kind of go, it's okay. We're going to be okay. You know, that's the impression I got from her. It was just this look. It's kind of like that Nat Geo moment, you know. And I literally span around, snapped the shot and turned around and never looked back again. And when I did, she'd gone. She was with a group of friends.

And I didn't actually know if I'd got the shot because, again, my eyesight's not the best and I certainly couldn't see it properly on the back of my camera in the middle of a bloody desert. So it was only when I got back to the hotel and put it into the computer that I went, oh. But the face to me was just like this. Yeah, we're going to be OK. Yeah. And I don't know, those kind of moments give me some kind of, as I called it, hope, you know, that

we'll do okay at the end of the day, you know. But that's a very human element and a very, you know, warm embrace, which I choose to, you know, kind of take on board as opposed to think that it's anything other than that, really. I share that thought. I think we're going to be okay. But I think that there has to be the possibility that we're not going to be okay for us to appreciate that we're going to be okay. Correct.

Yeah. Correct. It's the yin and yang, it's the balance thing again that... The horrors of the world to recognize the beauty. Correct. Yeah. And I think quite a few people are recognizing that too. I mean there's obviously some horrible stuff going on right now but at the other end of it there's also recognition that we should take care of each other and we should look after this place that we call home, you know. And I don't mean in that soppy hippie way either, it's like genuine, you know, concern and love and respect for where we are. Yeah. And this is we are so lucky. I mean we're so so lucky. You know I think it was actually Professor Brian Cox that just

goes this is insane that we're here now. Yeah. Having this experience. Yeah. It's try I mean if you can take that on board try to appreciate that and feel that wonder of The fact that we exist in this time, you know If we do Yeah, I think well at least in our experience we do you know, whatever this is, you know There's people that believe this is a simulation. Yes, I know that one. It's also, yeah, boy, that's a, when it's explained to you by brilliant people, it becomes

hard to ignore the possibility that maybe they're correct. Like, Elon, he said that the odds of us not being in a simulation are in the billions. Ouch, that hurts. not being in a simulation are in the billions. Yeah. Ouch, that hurts. But wouldn't you think that though, if you're simultaneously running Tesla and a rocket company and fucking, I mean he's just, he seems like he's in a simulation,

and you're also the richest man in the world, and you're also the number one Diablo player in the world, he's in a simulation. Yeah, well he's certainly thinking, you wanna talk about a multiverse going on at the same time he's already there that's for sure yeah and if I was him I would think that there's a simulation too it's just because he's got a really good level of the simulation yeah that level's fun yeah for sure yeah but it's also it's like what do you do

with that information? Like if you know, like if you've decided this is a simulation, what are what are you experiencing? Are these experiences real? Or is it it's still real? So real feelings and real moments still do exist. So does it cheapen it? Does that change your purpose? Right. Also, does it does it change how you feel? Does it change the people you love? Does it change? You know, but I mean, he's you certainly look at him and go, you want to talk about being a go getter,

making things happen. Yeah, he believes it's possible. So he does it. And I think that's the same with a lot of people, obviously not to that extreme. But I think we do make our own fortune in life. Yeah, in some weird way. I think we are responsible partly for our destiny for our Paths in life. It's you believe in free will It's a tricky one, right There's a tricky one Yeah

There's something there that is free will. I believe in determinism as well. You have choices. Yeah. You do have choices, but how much of your choices are shaped by your past, your biology, life experiences, genetics? How much of it is... There's that argument, like Sapolsky makes the argument that that's going to be one of the things that we look back on in the future

as being one of the most preposterous concepts that people attach themselves to is the concept of free will. Right. And Sapolsky is like, he's pretty much a pure determinism guy, and I don't know if that's really true. I feel like it's both.

I feel like there are decisions that you can make, and you make these decisions and change your life, you can change the life of other people, and you know that you can do it, and you're doing it through will. There's something about focusing your energy and your desires and your life goal, your path to something. That's a real thing. Yeah, and things happening at a particular time. I think it's very foolish to pretend that you know, whether it's determinism or whether it's free will. I think it's foolish. I think also there's so many factors to take into consideration to dismiss any of them. Like to dismiss the concept of the simulation I think is silly.

But to dismiss the concept of the multiverse also equally silly. To dismiss this idea that you have no free will. It's like I I'm not sure, because there's something, there's something you know guides you in a particular direction that you don't necessarily always go with. So what is that? Is that pure determinism? If like, sometimes you make mistakes and you recognize you made those mistakes

and you recalibrate and then you get to that fork in the road again, you go, I fucked this up before. This time, I'm not going to. This time time I'm gonna move forward is that free will because it sort of certainly seems like it to me and that's not discounting the impact of determinism which is all the events of your life and your biology it has to be shared it's a lot of different stuff going on simultaneously yeah yeah I don't think I don't think you can say it's one or the other no I don't don't think so either. But people love to do that, though. They want to put a stamp on something. Yeah, well, pigeonholing. Yeah, they just love to like I want to put

this in a narrow window of understanding and dismiss all the other things to contrary. Open mindedness is something that is a necessity in this strange, weird world that we live in. It's fun though, right? Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I certainly have enjoyed the process, but it's funny what you're saying, how you're saying things because it makes it's, as you're discussing this, I'm thinking about certain choices that I've made because of certain things that have happened and certain things in the past and where I believe I should be in the future. Yeah, I mean, that's quite, I find quite an interesting one that this whole also concept of My mind's going blank not enough coffee today That you what do you call it when you're putting it out there I'm really brain dead right now

When you're visualizing the future on the possibilities, manifesting your dreams, studying it out, is there some truth to that? Because that does seem to happen to a degree. Just doesn't always happen. No, not at all. I think it's a factor. That's all. I think it's a factor. Yeah, that's a possibility. I agree with you on that. But there's something definitely to that.

I definitely think. I certainly feel that I can relate certain things happening to me because of manifesting or the will to move things in a particular direction. You put your energy and your focus into something and the thing becomes real and you're like, oh my god, I manifested this thing. How did that happen without that? But it's also work. For sure. People get this bizarre thing that if you just manifest something that it'll just occur. No that's never the case. No there's a ton of energy behind it that comes into that for sure. Julian I've really enjoyed talking to you. It was a lot of fun. Thank you likewise back at you. And I really enjoy your photography and the book is available, Life's Fragile Moments. It's an awesome coffee table sized. It's heavy. Let's an awesome coffee table sized.

It's heavy. Let's do this again sometime. Thank you. My absolute pleasure. My pleasure as well. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.