The Joe Rogan Experience - #2293 - Chris Williamson

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Chris Williamson is the host of the "Modern Wisdom" podcast  www.chriswillx.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE for 90% off your first week. Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 3/30/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. I took the glasses off, I was hoping you were going to keep them on. You want me to keep them on? You can pull them off. Some dudes can't pull off douchey glasses. You think he's douchey? A little bit if I didn't know you, but I know you.

You're not douchey at all, so you at all so you wear cool glasses These are requests by you You've been wearing them a lot. I like them. Yeah. Yeah, I do They kind of it's like we're having an Instagram filter for the entire world, right? Everything feels just a little rosy I had a pair of rose colored glasses before and I got it. I was like, oh I get it. It is better It is nicer. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a fuller dude I got, I need to show you this. So what is this? I have a little open of that. So you'll remember that I sent you a photo on iMessage a couple of months ago of a friend of mine who was in Antarctica and he flew a comedy mothership lighter out to Antarctica. I've been reliably told that that lighter was used to smoke weed

in Antarctica. Yeah. And it's touched, light was used to smoke weed in Antarctica. Yeah, and it's touched. It was dropped a number of times, so it's touched ancient permafrost. Fuck yeah. What kind of laws do they have in Antarctica? I don't know. Apparently they're liberal. Do they have any laws? I don't know. There's nobody there. Have they established laws? They were 400 miles in.

Whoa. So this was part of the final experiment, which was this attempt to try and disprove flat earth He went as a part of that Did he bring flat earthers is that the deal so yeah for flat earthers for? Globies globe earthers get flown to Antarctica. It's thirty five thousand dollars per person Oh my god this guy called will Duffy put the project together, flew everybody down there. Did he pay for each person?

Yep. Wow. I think maybe a couple of people chose to go self-funded, but they were trying to get, they would open offer to all of the biggest flat earth influences, commentators, on the planet, I don't know what to call them. How many went?

Four of each, so four roundies, four flaties. Don't you want to see their search histories? Maybe the FBI do. I don't know. The flat people? I want to see. So they do this in the middle of our winter, their summer, they observe the sun above the horizon for 24 hours.

So there's no explanation apparently with most of the models of flat earth about how the sun could stay above the horizon for 24 hours. So they flew down, they had drones flying in the air, they had 24 hour 360 cameras, they had live stream of iPhones, all of this stuff. And then they had the people that were on the ground. And the guys that were there observed the sun. Did the flat earthers switch stances? So three... Three did and one didn't? This is just the drone footage.

I was just showing you footage. Oh, this is drone footage? Yeah, so the final experiment... So those are apparently mountaintops. But they're submerged? It's just all ice. That is so fucking hardcore. Because, you know, there's a bunch of things up there that look like pyramids and what it really is

It's just an unusual peak of an enormous mountain Have you seen the Antarctic pyramids? Yeah, you got to go all in on that. Okay Hard launch this episode people that believe wild shit about Antarctica So, you know about the direct energy weapon theory, right? Yes. I did see that on Sean Ryan show. Yes I did as well. I was like fucking really interesting. Yeah He sounds really interesting, but if I want to sit him next to Eric Weinstein You know I'm saying like is that if is anything this guy's saying make any sense cuz I've done that before with Eric with one guy who was a

fraudster I sent him a video and I said tell me if this is gobbledygook or if this is real physics Eric to stress test some guy's ideas of course he loves it he loves any sort of intellectual stimulation and especially if it's like mathematics or physics or something where it's his wheelhouse and You know he's great because you can someone can sound really good to me You know they could start quoting thermal financing you through whatever that problem is like chiropractors Do you know chiropractors use all these crazy weird terms for musculature and? crazy, weird terms for musculature and different insertion points is to let you know that they have a comprehensive understanding of the body that's far beyond yours, Chris.

And this is the same thing like a lot of fraudsters do, that they'll use enormous language and very verbose phrases. It's like they're just trying to get you to think that they're smarter than they are. Yeah I think people use sort of complex language and fluency as a proxy for truthfulness and insight. Yes and especially when if you're dealing with a truly brilliant person they can't that's what a pyramid is. Oh this is just on Google Maps. Jamie you've just gone to Google Maps. Yeah I didn't want to go to any I went to the source any kooky websites But it does look like a pyramid

Well, it looks like all three. Yeah But the reality is that's probably under a couple miles of ice Yeah, so this a final experiment thing sent the world into a spiral there's this dude Jaren Campanella who was one of the biggest influences and he said, I saw the sun above the horizon, I think the Earth's round. He's immediately been, the Flat Earth Society's just gone into a head spin. They're saying they didn't really go to Antarctica. They went to the Sphere in Vegas was one of the accusations. They did it at the Sphere in Vegas, and they were tracking it around.

The Sphere's not that big, kids. It's not that big kids. Yeah, well, it's not that big. I don't know there. There's seats everywhere. You would know you're there I don't know. I don't know. They had a bad time But yeah, it's it's that's been pretty wild talking of pyramids Dude, this new pyramid shit that's just come out. Oh, this is insane. Yeah, I was gonna send this to you as well Jamie I'll send you one of the most comprehensive breakdowns of it on X, because it's quite stunning. So apparently through the use of LIDAR, they have discovered that there are enormous structures underneath the Great Pyramid that go kilometers deep into the earth

with coils. So enormous pillars. And then these coils, they don't understand what it is because they're just looking at LIDAR images, but whatever this is, is a uniform structure. There's several pillars and all of this is like very, very, very weird. Yeah, 600 meters descending down those cylinders

and then there's more stuff below it and then there's additional structures inside of it. Yeah, that was crazy. It's really crazy. There's a guy, Jay Anderson, and he did a breakdown of it. Maybe this would be good. We could play this. It makes a little more sense

when someone's explaining it to you. Well, yeah, I mean, we need somebody that's an expert here, not me and you. Zowie Hawass, by the way, has said it's nonsense. Already? Yes. According to Graham Hancock. This is the wonderful thing about having Graham Hancock. I texted Graham yesterday.

I was like, yeah, what's going on with this? Yeah, so click on that and go full screen, please. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. There are times in life when it's better to make that big purchase like buying a car for job opportunities or a home to build equity. If you're smart with your money, it could pay off big time in the long run. Those aren't the only things you should be investing in though. It's just as important that you take care of you and your health. That includes your mental health. And you can be smart with your money here too. Use BetterHelp.

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Dun Dun Dun. I love the music and geometry so you know it's real. Gotta appreciate the dramatic intro. Project Unity. What has just been announced in relation to the pyramids at the Giza Plateau and the plateau itself is so incredible, so awe-inspiring and narrative shattering that I have been sitting here for the last hour trying to wrap my head around the implications of what we were just told. So this is pretty much breaking news because the new findings were announced on the 16th of March at

a press conference held by the team who was studying the Great Pyramid of Giza with a non-invasive technology that was first developed by Filippo Bionde and Corrado Malanga called Synthetic Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography. Fuck that's a mouthful. This was used to explore the internal structure of the Great Pyramid of Giza and this method leverages the analysis of micro movements typically generated by background seismic activity to achieve a high-resolution full 3d Tomographic imagery of the pyramids interior and subsurface components. The recent findings from deploying this technology are

nothing short of mind-blowing because what's been discovered is that there are huge structures coming down from the base of the pyramid deep into the bedrock. In fact over 600 meters deep which then connects to structures that extend up to two kilometers below the surface of the ground. Two kilometers, massive internal structures connected to the base of the pyramid and extending deep, deep down.

This is what we know so far. What does your friend think about it? Which friend? The one that you said it's bullshit. Oh, that's not my friend. That's Zowie Hawass. Okay, Zowie Hawass is the head of Antiquities in Egypt. He's like the head guy that talks to the archaeologists and gives the official narrative in the in the past He's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock and him and that have now become friends. Oh, yes I don't know this guy coordinating Graham is a lovely guy. Hey people that like He's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock and him and that have now become friends. Oh, yes

Coordinating Graham is a lovely guy. Hey people that like our enemies with him Just need to get to know him and hang out with him. He's a genuine Real human being who's trying to find the truth He doesn't have fake narratives and and he's so sensitive to like, he's so upset, like when when people smeared him, like the Atlantis thing, they were trying to say it's a white supremacist idea to look for Atlantis. It's like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you talking about? Like we had this guy, Flint Dibble on, who in an article, and he was talking about Graham, and he's connecting Graham to white

supremacy and all this crazy shit because of the Atlantis theory it's the way they dismiss it like that. It's white heritage. Some people in the past, some people in the past who have theorized about Atlantis had white supremacist ideas but also most people didn't like Plato didn't like the people that talked about this place, it's in sub-Saharan Africa. I mean, it's like the least white supremacist discovery of all time, as are the pyramids.

This is Africa. It's the least white supremacist notion of all time that this incredibly advanced ancient civilization had reached some sort of proficiency that's above and beyond what we attribute to them. I think Graham is right and I think there's a lot of other people that are right too that are chasing this down. And Christopher Dunn had long ago theorized and wrote a book that he believes that the Great Pyramid of Giza is a gigantic power plant. He thinks it generates power and he has a very like a working theory of why it's built the way it's

built that totally coincides with the ability to produce hydrogen, the ability to utilize the the rays of space and try to find some way to generate electricity through this. Yeah, the association of other people that we don't like talked about this thing, therefore anybody else that talks about this thing is immediately attached to them, just seems like a very lazy way to sort of smear people. It's lazy thinking. It's gross, it's beyond lazy.

It's not lazy, it's really cheap. It's like they's lazy thinking it's gross. It's it's beyond lazy. It's not lazy. It's really cheap It's like they're cheap insults and it's also from academia, which is so disappointing You know, I mean academia has been so captured by this mind virus of leftism That's just it's so bizarre to watch the brightest minds and the people that we lean on for rational, reasonable thinking and an objective understanding of the world. We lean on the experts. And when they're calling someone a white supremacist, we're talking about an advanced society that lived in Africa. There's a lot of ways that you can put your foot in it. There's this woman, Corey Clark, who sent a survey to every psychology professor in the US

and asked them questions like, what is more important, the truth or ensuring that equity is promoted? And a lot of professors basically said, I self-censor, I would prioritize making people feel good over necessarily telling them the truth. There are certain opinions that people should be reported for.

There are certain topics that basically shouldn't be discussed. The usual suspects, stuff like behavioral genetics, so heritability, evolutionary psychology, as in anything that kind of relates to sex differences. And yeah, it really is retarding the progress of everything. And you think, well, trickling down from this, what sort of educated society are you gonna have in future

that's not gonna be particularly good? Well, I think it's gonna encourage independent education. I think you're gonna encourage people like University of Austin, which is, they're aiming to do just that and to kind of bypass all this nonsense and just teach people reality and I also think that it's most likely I mean I don't even say most likely it's most certainly influenced by other countries that want to degrade our ability to

develop meaningful minds that come out of universities like intelligent useful people distract them with social justice distract them but destroy society with them it's Yuri Besman off's prediction from 1984 it's like you could pass that off as a ridiculous conspiracy theory if if it wasn't totally accurate. It's amazing how people don't want to believe that maybe there's been subversion and that maybe our universities have been overrun for years with both funding, which we know is true, particularly from China. China funds a lot of American universities. They do they give a lot of grants They spend a lot of money and this was this was a part of the whole thing with George W

Or not George W. Excuse me with Joe Biden's bizarre job that he had where he was a professor That he never showed up for classes and he was teaching and he got a large salary He did he got a mob no-show job teaching as a professor yeah as a professor and I think he got a million dollars a year just do nothing you know that question that people ask about I know how much you got I don't want to get sued but he doesn't know what's going on he doesn't know it's good well he might auto sign the yeah legal papers there's that question about there's two options about life in the universe

that either we're alone or that we're not and both are equally terrifying. I feel like it's the same when it comes to Western anti-Westernism. And you say, either we're doing it to ourselves or we're not and both are equally terrifying. You're being puppeted by this nefarious foreign power Or you're just turning around and kicking the ball into the your own goal over and over again

Well, I think people will turn around and kick the ball into their own goal, but I also think they're being helped I think there's a substantial amount of this that just works automatically it preys upon really weak minds, and particularly bullies and mean people who want to find other people that they can hate to justify like whatever virtue they believe they have above those people, and they'll use it to hate. And John Cleese made a great video about this, why extremism is so interesting. It's on my Instagram.

I reposted it the other day, someone posted it, we'll give them credit for it, but it's a great clip from John Cleese from 30 years ago. From 30 years ago. And then pre-social media, there's no social media at this time. And he essentially nails what's going on with both the right-wing extremists

and the left-wing extremists. It's the same thing, they're the same people, they're finding a thing. Click this. We've heard a lot about extremism recently, a nastier, harsher atmosphere everywhere, more abuse and bother boy behavior, less friendliness and tolerance and respect for opponents. All right, but what we never hear about extremism is its advantages well the biggest advantage of extremism is that it makes you feel good because it provides you with enemies let me explain the great thing about having enemies is that you

can pretend that all the badness in the whole world is in your enemies and all the goodness in the whole world is in you. Attractive, isn't it? So, if you have a lot of anger and resentment in you anyway, and you therefore enjoy abusing people, then you can pretend that you're only doing it because these enemies of yours are such very bad persons, and that if it wasn't for them, you'd actually be good-natured and courteous and rational all the time if you want to feel good become an extremist now you have a choice if you join the hard left

they'll give you their list of authorized enemies almost all kinds of authority especially the police the city americans judges multinational corporations, public schools, farriers, newspaper owners, fox hunters, generals, class traitors, and of course, moderates.

Or if you'd rather be an extremist on the hard right, no problem, you still get a loveliness of enemies, only they're different ones. Noisy minority groups, unions, Russia, in there. and upstart actors. Now, once you're armed with one of these super lists of enemies, you can be as nasty as you like and yet feel your behaviors morally justified. So you can strut around abusing people and telling them you could eat them for breakfast and still think of yourself as a champion of the truth, a fighter for the greater good, and not the rather sad paranoid schizoid that you really are. Seriously.

Brilliant. Brilliant. That are. Seriously. Brilliant. Brilliant. That's so good. Brilliant. Yeah, I remember. Pre-social media. But the dynamic is still the same. Right, it's just amplified now so much so that it's a part of everyone's life.

So many people's morality stands on the shoulders of somebody that's fallen behind, right? Look at how bad that person is. You don't need to look at me. And I think that if people start pointing at outgroups and they bind their group together over the mutual hatred of an outgroup, that's usually an indication, I'm like, I should look a little bit closer at you.

Like, might be a good example, Lizzo. Didn't think I was gonna go there. Lizzo, talking about how she was in support of these bigger girls and she was gonna help their careers and give them a platform, presumably a structurally reinforced platform. Um, meanwhile, behind the scenes, she's body shaming them, she's starving them,

she's not letting them have water, apart from when she makes them eat bananas out of the vaginas of Amsterdam strippers Douglas Murray said that she she thought that she could outsource eating fruit to somebody else And meanwhile you think she's portraying nicey-nicey out front what's happening behind the scenes, right? I remember this this was pre Yeah, please. This was pre Pre Trump Elon really pre Trump Elon and he was saying thank you very much and He was saying what I care about is doing good,

not the appearance of it. And he's discussing performative empathy in this way, this sort of sense that what's most important is to protect people's feelings. And I think that this really is a point, it doesn't matter whether you're on left or right, this is a point that you should care about because you want people to have some sense

of transparency, legitimacy, they want to be telling the truth, you want to trust that what someone is saying to you is actually what they believe. And he said, what I care about is doing good, not the appearance of it. There are lots of people who are doing evil while proclaiming that they're doing good. And you know, that's the same that you're talking about there with John, please, you're saying these people's morality will stand on the shoulders of others

who have fallen behind. It's the same reason why if somebody's in the middle of a scandal, look at who comes out and twists the knife a lot. Do you go, huh, I wonder what's in your, it's the classic congressman that's got the anti-gay bill. Oh yeah. Who's just.

Gay as fuck. Yeah, yeah. Glory holes and you know. Check his hard drive. That's the person who's hard drive you wanna look at. Check his hard drive, yeah. Gay as fuck. Yeah, yeah. Glory holes and check his hard drive. That's the person whose hard drive you want to look at. So yeah, it's just such an obvious warning sign to me that what's happening inside of someone is probably not that good.

Yeah, I mean, if you're looking to destroy someone, particularly, like you're attacking someone online, particularly, almost all of those people are deeply broken. There's always some creepiness that lurks behind the scenes that you're trying to cover up for with your actions, almost always. You're trying to put the light on this person. You're going to put the eye of Sauron on this person

to keep it off yourself. I've seen that a lot of, you know, self-proclaimed male feminists. Sneaky fuckers. Yeah, that I know to be creeps, you know? And I'm like, ew. And I'll see them attacking some other guy and I'm like, oh god. I don't dive in, but I want to sometimes. Sometimes I want to just burn the boats and pull the fucking pins on the grenades. You know what I don't like about that sort of level of aggressive criticism? I think

I'm a, you could describe me as a criticism hyper responder. I'm someone for whom it, it probably impacted me more than it should do. Certainly more than it should do for someone who gets the level of attention that I've managed to get myself to now. And what I don't like about it is it causes people, like me, to be way less confident in their own positions. Because you think, oh well, most people, if it was me, I would only give feedback if I was really certain, and if I had this person's best interests at heart, and if I wanted them to do better,

and if I actually knew what I was talking about, then I would tell this person what I think about them, and what I think about what they're saying. And if you apply that rubric to everybody else that gives you criticism, you give undue, unfair expertise and legitimacy to people who don't have your best interests at heart. They don't understand what you're trying to do.

They don't care about you. They don't get it. And it causes a lot of people, basically I think that criticism killed more dreams than a lack of competence ever did because people are just, I'm worried about pushing these boundaries too much. This person, all of my friends tell me the truth,

why isn't this person on the internet? There's this idea from Ethan Cross called criticism capture. So you'll have heard of audience capture, right? Where a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience, it becomes very predictable. Criticism capture, right, where a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience, it becomes very predictable. Criticism capture basically says it's not the compliments, but the criticisms that are more warping, that over time what you end up doing is changing the way that you speak, you become a flaming sword wielding card carrying member that's as aggressive as possible to push back against it,

or you go the other way, and you begin to caveat very aggressively, you start to dampen down all of your opinions so that nobody can take offense to them. You have these unnecessarily long sort of diatribes, sort of weird land acknowledgement. Well, we must remember that women are struggling with the thing and we have to do the memories.

But now we've got that out of the way, let's talk about men's problems or whatever it might yes and yeah I think I I just wish that the internet was a little bit more positive some as opposed to negative some and I understand that people bind together over mutual hatreds of out groups but the oldest story in human history is that group of people are different to us yeah let's get him the oldest story in history I mean it's it's tribal genetics. It's like baked into our DNA. Literally. And it can be manipulated. And when people are doing

it and they're doing it with a very obvious distortion of your actual position just to label you as the worst possible, least charitable version of you that could ever be remotely considered. You see that all the time, where people are just trying to distort a narrative. You're seeing that right now with Elon, right? You're seeing people justify violence and extreme vandalism, and you're seeing people cheer it on and it's very strange.

There was a thing on The Daily Show where the host was talking about the attacks on Tesla and people keying people's and the audience starts clapping and cheering. It's so strange. It's so fucking strange and it's also just shows you how positions just completely flip flop. The Tesla used to be the car that you drove to let everybody know that you were environmentally conscious and you were a good leftist.

That's a good question. Do we care about the environment or not? Because those fumes that are being kicked out of that are not good. A thousand jet airplanes flying overhead for a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. You're lighting batteries on fire.

They're so toxic. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lithium and all sorts of shit getting pissed into the environment. Oh, it's all gonna come down and rain. It's gonna pollute the water. The fish are gonna be polluted. You're not gonna be able to eat them.

But we're doing good. This is for a righteous cause. Yeah, it's all funded, too. It's funded by NGOs. That's where it gets really creepy. The Tesla fires are funded by NGOs. Yeah, people are uncovering exactly what's going on. And this is where it gets fascinating,

because all this stuff has operated pretty much with impunity in the past, before Doge. Before Elon and his crew of hyper-spectrum psychopaths started to... Fucking Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles super wizards started diving into all this data and this is something that Ted Cruz talked about he said we had always known that there was these problems but until Elon came along with these algorithms we couldn't expose them we didn't understand what was going on and now they've used AI to create this understanding of the net of NGOs that is all funded by USAID and by similar type programs where you know you kind of have these open-ended

Checks that get written to the other side other side. That's the top. Yeah right there How often you smoke cigars fellow a couple of times. Well, I fucking turned this around the wrong way. All right. No worries. Keep going. But this is this is the essentially the way Mike Benz describes it. He's the very best at it. I don't know if you've ever seen his, his breakdowns of USAID. I love his episodes on here. Incredible. So interesting. They're so interesting. Because you realize like this has been

going on forever and ever and ever and this is this is the arm of the government that is about regime change a lot of the money gets funneled into these other countries and it's Under the guise of you know air quotes aid, but it's not aid it's agency for international development and It's it's all about influence and power all throughout the world and and also at home and one of the things that it does at home is they organize these protests they organize protests different NGOs do all funded by the government all funded by taxpayer money in this weird way and when they do

it they pay people to show up at these places I've got pamphlets that people have given me that they've taken from these locations or gotten from email lists where- Is that purposefully no digital record? I think probably, but I don't think they care. I mean, I think as long as they're saying they're gonna pay you to protest, I think that's legal. I think it's legal to pay someone to protest.

So they're paying people $1,000 and they're giving them food and snacks and you can get a lot of people to just show up for a thousand bucks And then some of them are gonna get a little vandally Some of them bring enough people together and they get vandaly How crazy is it that the left are the ones who are painting swastikas on cars? Just understand how crazy positions can flip and flop. The left is upset that we're not continuing an endless war in Ukraine. The left is upset that this guy is uncovering fraud and waste.

And so in order to stop that, you must light cars on fire and put swastikas on them because he's a Nazi because he said my heart goes out to you even though there's countless videos of AOC doing that gesture Tim Walsh doing that gesture enthusiastically many many people I do think if you're in that position if you've got this heritage coming in don't be careful with where you put your hands don't you know what I mean don't do that like just fucking careful with where you put your hands. Do you know what I mean? Like just fucking think about where you put your hands. He's you know, he's on the spectrum, man. He's not normal.

You've seen that video comparing him and Trump's son. There's two different types of autism. Have you seen this? No I haven't. Oh my god. It's so good. I think it's at the, is it the inauguration? And they're both stood next to each other. And Elon sort of fist pumping and and loving it and Trump's son is just like staring off. Apparently Trump's son went up to Biden at the inauguration and said it's on now. What is this? It's a fucking UFC fight.

I mean that's literally apparently lip readers have like read what he said when he went up to, because there's a moment where he goes up to Biden and Biden looks confused and he doesn't smile, he's like, eh, but he walks up to him and it's on now. Well they need to do, you know how football coaches have got, they put the play thing over the front of their mouth like this and they talk into it. That's how it needs to be done now for politics

with lip readers everywhere. That kid knew there was lip readers, I don't think he gave a fuck. I think they tried to put his dad in jail and he wants to kill that guy. That's what I think. He's like, fuck you. Because imagine your dad's getting that close

to put in jail for bullshit for the rest of his life. Like if he got put in jail for 25 to life, he's dead. He's dead, he dies in jail. He's gonna get no food, he's gonna be no nutrition, no sunlight, depression depression intense fucking anxiety you're in jail you're dead he's 80 years old he's not gonna last 105 in jail there was a video from Forbes recently that got a million plays in a day talking about Trump getting like bopped on the nose by a boom lady yeah by a little boomer he just a little boop on the nose by a boom mic. Yeah by a little boom mic. He just, little boop on the nose.

Yeah. I have to say I have such fucking news politics fatigue already, well what, two months into the sort of presidency and it is the velocity of bullshit. If you can get a million plays in a day because Trump got bopped on the nose by a fucking boom mic. It just, the appetite is, it seems endless for it.

It just feels, it's very, it's exhausting. I'm kind of having a check out and I know that people say, oh, well, it's a luxurious position. You don't need to pay attention to politics. It's a luxurious position for you to be in. People at the bottom, they do need to pay attention to politics. It's an interesting stat because actually the most educated, wealthiest people are the ones that spend the most time consuming news and talking about politics.

So the people at the bottom rung of the ladder that don't. So that's not true. I'm just fucking exhausted. I'm so... You're allowed to be exhausted. It's ridiculous. Newsweek wrote an article about how one of the names of one of our podcast guests who's a good friend of mine Michael Costa His name was misspelled

Accidentally on the on the feed you have it on so news week that you Jamie it wasn't even misspelled I don't know. It was the capitalized Had a capitalization to The defense rests its case here. It wasn't even misspelled, right? It was M capital I. Michael. Costa. Like me, Kyle Costa or something.

Okay. There's a headline. It's a fucking article in Newsweek. Ever think that your career would result in you having typos for a headline, Jamie? Newsweek. I don't even know which ones we've missed. I'm sure there's been other ones, that's just the first one I've seen. 100%!

What happens, it happens. People make mistakes, you're typing things in. But the fact that it's an article that we're being called out for a typo! But it's just anything for clicks man. Slow week for news. When it comes to college basketball and March mania, one thing is for sure, nothing's for sure. Upsets, buzzer beaters, Cinderella's advancing, top seeds going home early.

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On behalf of Boothill Casino in Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Voighton, Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co.au. Anything for clicks. That was something that I noticed, a trend that I've noticed over the last couple of years. Legacy media is really struggling to garner attention itself. It seems like fewer and fewer people are listening to it. We saw that over the last election.

It seems to me like the best way that legacy media can gain traffic is to talk about independent media. How many times are we seeing headlines about Andrew Huberman or about the right-wing Manosphere pipeline and how it's getting people to do this or the other side like why is there not a Joe Rogan of the left? You know, whatever the headline is, more and more the way that legacy media is able to achieve traffic is only in reference to independent media. Yes. So that was opposed to us being downstream from them, that now downstream from us.

And anything masculine is right wing. Anything. You cannot be masculine. Like you cannot be interested in physical fitness. Anything. It's a pipeline to being right wing. Yes. You can't like fast cars. be masculine like you cannot be interested in physical fitness anything pipeline to being right wing yes you can't like fast cars no you're you're not allowed to you don't even allow to like Tesla's anymore massage is the fastest cars yeah yeah you're a misogynist you're probably

racist maybe a Nazi I'm gonna put a swastika in your car just to let everybody know it's there was some really fucking stupid graph that someone put up of how right wing social media and new media people dominate. That was the media matters study. Yeah. Yeah, this is interesting. I was at the top of the list.

I was at the top of the list and I was like, I feel like the way Caitlyn Jenner must have felt like when she won woman of the year. Like, it's so quick, I got to the top of the list. I'm not even right wing! Just because I support Trump, I support him over the rest of the fucking nonsense that was going on when you're trying to push through someone without even a primary. Here it is.

This is it. I'm number one bitch. It's kind of funny, like they're putting Theo Vaughn in Lex Friedman. Yeah, that's Lex Friedman That's hilarious to put him in there who else they have in there. That's for Piers Morgan Well, Pierce Morgan is kind of light right leaning I think light right, but I think he's pretty reasonable I think he's far more of a centrist. Hmm kill Tony Think he's far more of a centrist. Hmm kill Tony 3.5 How that's a political show it's not but Tony, you know was that the White house or the flagrant 2.8. Yeah flagrant is not a right-wing show You fucking idiot a bunch of red dots who with no names on them, which is and then bulldoze

You're allowed to shut up James. I'm actually to thread I managed to thread the needle of avoiding this Get on there now. Yeah, they're gonna put you on now Jamie those red ones are real. Just shut up. No, they're real They're all real. There's a couple blue ones that are real to name. I don't know they fuck the name. Yeah, they're too little too small No one cares. Yeah, it's hilarious.'s very funny. What do you think of the, if you got a proposed reason for why this, is it just a judgment criteria that they're judging shows that aren't right wing as right wing?

Or is it genuinely that for some reason, the left is struggling to make progress in independent media? Well, they're struggling to make progress in independent media for sure, and they're trying to figure out why. They're trying to figure out why these, what they are calling right wing.

I think if you looked at all my positions, I think way more of them are left wing than right wing. What are the left wing positions that you still hold? Well, the big one is having some sort of a social safety net. I was on welfare when I was a kid. My family was on food stamps We were fucking poor shit and I remember That helping us a lot. We had food where I don't know what we would be doing if we did

I mean we were in a bad place and there's social safety nets for people my family got out of that and My stepfather and my mother wound up doing well. They did really great and they got out of debt and bought a house and great job and the whole deal. But when I was a little boy, we were fucked. And I think social safety nets are very important for people. It's very important for society. If you care about people, you care about the whole society, you don't want people starving when there's ways to develop government programs to make sure people have food. And I think that's this idea of pull them up by their bootstraps

is horseshit. Some people don't have boots. They don't have straps. They don't have nothing. They're fucked. They're fucked from the moment they were born. They were born into a bad family environment, in a bad neighborhood, and crime, and gangs, and drugs, and it's not even playing field. Where are you at with healthcare? I think healthcare, 100%, should be socially funded. I think that Medicare and Medicaid having programs where people who are hurt can get an operation and it's not going to bankrupt them for the

rest of their life is another thing that I think society should be, it should be a part of our agreement to take care of each other as a community. That we chip in money for what people would think of as socialist positions and I always bring up the fire department because the fire department is one of the best examples that everybody sort of agrees. It's a socialist sort of thing. You give your tax dollars, the tax dollar supports the fire department, the fire department fairly puts out fires for everybody. They don't not put out your fire if you don't have any money. It's not like they don't, the fires don't.

It's such a good example. But when you compare that to the way that medical access is done in this country, but I also Believe in competition. I've said this before I'll say it again I want my doctor to be a bad motherfucker who drives a Mercedes I want my doctor to like be really good. I want him to be an artist You know, I want to go to the guy who fixes the Lakers knees, you know That's the guy you want you want that guy who has a nice watch and he lives in a nice house and he kicks ass and he knows how to fucking fix people really well. He's the best at it. And you go to him and you get an operation and you're fucking golden. That's what you want. You want competition because

competition inspires excellence. You know, being rewarded for your hard work is a giant incentive for people to get amazing at things. And you need that. You need that too. But there's also a lot of very good doctors who would be very happy to do something that helps the overall greater good of the community. Just like you have really good criminal defense attorneys that are, you that are assigned to you if you're getting unjustly tried and you want a really good one that can help you. There's state appointed attorneys that are just good people that want to help people. Bill Murray was talking about his daughter, his daughter does that. There's room you know, there's room for that with the amount of money that we spend on so many

things that we all agree are fucked. And maybe some of that could be freed up with some of this USAID money that they're pulling. I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving people health care. Like, if you know anybody that's been injured and was bankrupt because they didn't have insurance, and then they had to get some crazy operation and now they have this enormous debt and they wind up going bankrupt or they're getting chased down for the money for the rest of their life it's horrible. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America medical debt. I mean coming from the UK where we've got the NHS

it feels fucking barbaric. It really does feel barbaric. I remember I went to New Orleans and I was getting this great ghost tour on an evening tie. It's like fun tourist shit to do in New Orleans. I do those. And the guy, the guide was so good. My mother was a Wiccan and I don't know if that was true, but the tail was lovely. Anyway, and he was telling me I've got a chipped wisdom tooth and my girlfriend got into a car wreck the other day and he basically said he was explaining to me about how you can get bankrupted by the stuff he's like if you get hit by a car you don't have insurance you better fucking walk it off because if you don't that could be the end of essentially the

beginning of the end of your life and that really I mean that was six seven years ago now and it's still like that was the most haunting thing about the fucking ghost tour him telling me about the medical debt and then I think the reaction to the United Health CEO killing as well, for me, somebody who didn't fully understand how many of the claims are denied, I think that there was an increase by about 30% in denial of claims over only the most recent period and And I just thought guy shoots person, typically the guy that shoots them is in the wrong. And the reaction on the internet just,

I wasn't ready for it. And it really sort of taught me this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that almost everybody in America has with the healthcare system. Yeah, I think it's a quiet epidemic. I think there's been a lot of people massively affected by it and they're just steaming, just sitting there seething, just angry.

Waiting for some righteous person to come in and do retribution. But then you see the fucking revolving door between the FDA and the pharmaceutical drug corporations where these people leave and then all of a sudden they have these amazing jobs at pharmaceutical drug companies and they're making millions of dollars. Like, how is that legal? How is this whole thing legal?

Like when you realize that doctors are incentivized to medicate people, they're financially incentivized to give people certain medications, whether it's vaccines, they get bonuses if they vaccinate more than 60% of their clients and they lose those bonuses if people don't get vaccinated. There's like a lot of creepy shit that's involved in medicine. The FDA ban on compounded ozempic started yesterday. Oh, it's a ban.

So you have to get it from the big companies. Correct. Brigham taught me about this. I didn't understand how it works. If there's a shortage. So you have to get it from the big companies. Correct. Brigham taught me about this. I didn't understand how it works. If there's a shortage of a drug, compounding pharmacies are kind of allowed to just bypass patents in some way. And it's like, you can produce it

and you can make it cheaper and more widely available because the supply chain's fucked or something like that. And yesterday- Well that would be a good thing for society. Well to make more drugs more widely available for cheaper. If it's good, if it's a very important pharmaceutical drug that can save people's lives. Of course.

Imagine not letting compound pharmacies make it for people that can't get it. Yeah, or can't afford it, or don't have the insurance for it. So yeah, I mean, that came into effect. I think tizepatide got popped yesterday, and then partway through April, semaglutide is gonna go as well. Yeah, that's all just eliminating competition, right?

Well, we need to think, you know, all of the people that are using these drugs, that are losing weight with them, whatever, we need to think about who the real sort of people suffering from this situation are, who are the stock owners of telehealth companies. If you own HIMS or whatever, the stocks decline by a lot. But dude, I've been thinking so much about Ozempic recently. And I think the introduction of

Ozempic proves how much of a scam the body positivity movement was all along. You look at the Golden Globes and all of the women that were supporting their bigger sisters, as soon as there was an easy route to being able to become a skeleton. They look like this. Look like this guy here. They all get those sucked in cheeks and the eye sockets suck in. It looks really creepy.

It just shows how flimsy your principles are, that it was easier for you to say, I can't win this particular game, therefore the game is rigged. Like if you can't get what you want, you have to teach yourself to want what you can get and then proclaim to everybody else that they should get it too. And yeah, the Golden Globes,

you just got these fucking skeleton motherfuckers walking around. And yeah, I mean, they, women of Hollywood are now facing the same dilemma that dudes who go to the gym have had for decades, because it's pointless losing weight naturally. Why would you lose weight naturally? Because everybody's going to accuse you of having used as M-Pic in any case. Same thing as a dude. If you gain weight as a guy and you get jacked, really jacked, if you really discipline yourself,

you know, multiple years, progressive overload, time under tension, hitting your protein goals, getting enough sleep, what your friends and the people of the internet will say is, yeah dude, easy if you take TrendBallone. And it's the exact same. So what is the incentive for anybody to lose weight, naturally, and apart from I have some concerns

about the drugs and the side effects and so on and so forth, socially there is no incentive for you to lose weight naturally. You remember when Adele lost all that weight? In the before times, she did it in the before times, dude. She did it hard. Yeah, she did it the fucking, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, extreme difficulty.

But yeah, now. Now she's hot. Do you remember when she did that Jamaica thing? She came out and she had all of her hair done like this. But yeah, there's this odd like Pascal's wager that you have to make where you think I can either lose weight normally or without assistance. It's gonna be more difficult and people are gonna accuse me

of using Ozempic in any case, or I can just take it and it'll be easier and they'll accuse me of it. Nothing changes. Yeah, I'm in favor of Ozempic for people that are morbidly obese. I think anything that can get you on the path. And I think if you can combine that, if you can say, okay, this is what I'm doing, so I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to start an exercise program. And then you wind up losing 30, 40 pounds, you feel better, you look better.

If you can continue this exercise program, you've at least put a healthy thing in your life along with Ozempic. I think that's critical. Because also that can mitigate some of the negative effects of one of the things that we're seeing is that people are losing a lot of muscle mass and a lot of bone mass. As much as 30% of the weight that people are losing is muscle and bone. And that, I think, could probably be mitigated with regular strength training. You know, you're only hearing about this from people that aren't strength training. Do not have a fitness regime.

Right, right. But which is the majority of these people that need this drug in the first place. That's how they got fat in the first place. Right, right. Exactly. So, Johan Hari did a really great book on this. You've had Johan on a bunch of times. He wrote this book called Magic Pill. And he's got just a really nice takeaway. He says, if you're under BMI of 30 and you're trying to lose weight, go fuck yourself.

If you're between 30 and 35, there's probably a value judgment you need to make. And if you're over 35 BMI, the cost benefit analysis seems to sort of work in your favor. Yeah, people are losing more muscle and bone mass from using Ozempic than you would typically if you were not using that.

But I think that that's just largely a selection criteria for the sort of people that are using Ozempic to help them lose weight, that they're so heavily calorie restricted that they don't need to have a fitness program. They don't have to really change their diet. I learned this, Johan taught me this thing, it's super interesting.

Gastric band surgery, after people have that, the suicide risk is pretty high, and sometimes it's because of these surgeons that leave the gauze in, or like leave a scalpel, or like a fucking cigar end in, there's complications that can happen physically. But the other thing that happens is, these people used food

as their coping mechanism for how they would feel better. Right. And their ability to eat and their appetite has gone away, but their psychological issues have not. And they don't have a coping mechanism. They've no longer got this outlet. Right, and then there's the issue also, you're not gonna feel as good

because your body's not absorbing nutrients correctly. You're missing some of your stomach. You know, it's like your stomach fills up quicker because they removed part of it. Like that can't be good just for overall metabolic health. Like you've diminished your body's ability to break down food. That just can't be good. And there's other ways to do it. There's other ways to do it. There's other ways to do it

It's like there's a gambling term that you got to get better the same way you got sick So like say if you and I were playing a pool and we're playing for a hundred dollars a game Okay, and you're up five games You're up five hundred bucks and I say next game for five hundred bucks and you go No, you got to get better the same way you got sick. Oh that's interesting. You can't just win one game and now you're even and they'll come on what are you pussy you scared like no that's not how this works. You lost one at a time. You went down a dark road and you missed a lot of

shots and now you're fucked and I'm not gonna let you off the hook with one easy thing. I might do that if it's like, okay, you put up a thousand and I'll put up 300. We'll see that. If you stack it in my... Yeah. Yeah. If you reflect in the odds where we're at financially at the moment. Yeah.

You got a jacket in my favor where I'm willing to make a risk. Yeah. Yeah. It's a strange... I think another thing with Ozempic, I have this theory that I think thin people are more prejudice against people that use Ozempic than fat people are so typically you would say Stay with me. I think you're right. So You would have imagined and this did happen some areas of the body positivity movement said that it was denying their right to exist That it was like erasure, you know,

that you're losing your bigger brothers and sisters, I don't know, but they're not actually threatened in the same way as in weight people are. So I'm aware that losing weight through a Zempik is not the same as getting in shape, especially if you don't do the health and fitness regime, if you don't do the resistance exercise, you end up going skinny fat, you know, jowls, big cheeks, all that stuff. But the signal of being in shape, let's just take that as being in shape, right,

like a normal BMI. The signal of being in shape is usually a reliable indicator of what you've done to have to get that. Right. Disciplined, reliable, able to do hard things, self-motivated, consistent, stick to a routine, conscientious, industrious, all of these things. So you look at somebody who's in shape and you think I can infer from your body a lot of things about who you are beyond just your body. I actually think that this is one of the huge benefits that most people don't realize about getting in shape

if they wanna attract a partner or whatever. or whatever, sure, the body looks great when you take the clothes off, but what does it signal about your personality, about your underlying values and what you do? Now, the problem with the introduction of easier routes to being in shape is that it's completely derogated the signal. The signal is now no longer reliable.

Because previously the signal said, I've had to jump through all of these different hoops. Well now, how do you know if they've jumped through all of those hoops or if they're just shooting a Zempik once a week? And I think that this explains why a lot of people who are in shape have a real visceral reaction. Now sure, lots of people are concerned about the drugs.

Fenfen was this thing in the 90s that fucked people up. It was speed. Yeah, I mean, it's a good way to lose weight. I knew girl who was on it. She was a very pretty girl that was a little heavy. And then got on the FenFen and just wanted to talk to everybody. Couldn't stop talking and got real thin. I was like, this is crazy.

And then she developed a heart problem. Yeah, that she kept for the rest of her life, I believe. I don't know her anymore, but I ran into her a couple years later, and she was telling me she has a heart problem. There's been no free lunch in weight loss ever yet. No. And I think that people are looking at the GLP ones

and thinking, what's the side effect? When's it coming? What's it going to do? Well, there's tons of side effects. It depends upon the person because obviously people are very different biologically. Everyone has a different tolerance to alcohol, people have different tolerances to foods, and you're going to have different tolerances to medications. And I have good friends that have had horrible side effects from Ozempic. They tried it,

they got on it, terrible. What like? Like pancreatitis? Yeah. I got a buddy of mine who was in, he was in bed for two weeks. He was really sick, and I know several other people that just feel terrible when they take it, and they had to get off of it. It was really fucking with them. And then I know other people that have taken it,

like a buddy of mine that works at the UFC, we ran into him the other day, I'm like, dude, you look fucking great. And he's like, yeah, I got on those MPEGs, fuck it, I just went for it. I said, hey man, and he had a whole plan. He's gonna get down to a certain weight and then he's gonna taper off.

Transition. And he, you know, but he looked great. He looked great. You seen Alex Jones? Yeah, but Alex is not on anything. I know. So this was. He's not on a Zembeck at all.

He's just, he works with my friend Sean. On it. I've been watching him train. Been watching him train on a Tuesday. Not watching him train. He trains when I train. I'm not following Alex Jones around. And he's-

Likely story. Getting after it, I know that's exactly what someone from the deep state would say. Do you know him? Or did you just see him there? I've spied him over the far side. You never had a conversation with him? I once saw him when I did Tim Poole's show

in the RV outside of the info wars Carpark. Oh, yeah, I did that. Yeah, it was the same week. That was the first week. I was ever in Austin Years ago, I remember that live stream. That was fun Alex a lovely person He really is he's working really hard in the gym But look just had that one thing that he didn't talk about that's it It's that one thing everything else has been mostly right about you what I should have said? Alex Jones is like the fucking patient zero for if you lose weight by going to the gym and working out and changing your diet, people are just going to say it was as Zempik. No, people think he's a totally different person. They think they've replaced Alex Jones with someone else. Is this what did David Ike have

a pop at Alex Jones recently? Who did David Icke get in trouble with, Jamie? Was that, I feel like there was some, it was somebody else in that sort of a world. But yeah, I mean, if the reptile people, like it does, it gets a bit reptile-y when you get down to the little body fat percentages. David Icke, I saw something, he got upset that I've never had him on the show.

And it's just the reptile stuff. It's just the shape-shifter stuff. I would still have them on. I think fascinating to try to pick some of those ideas apart or listen to them. Even if you don't believe in the ideas, what's interesting is how does somebody arrive at them. That's what's fascinating to me.

When I do my show, I speak to someone, I'm like, I want to understand the psychology of how you have arrived at this particular position. Well, imagine if it's real. I mean, if shapeshifters were real, if there really are evil reptilian aliens and they've infiltrated our society and they've been pulling the strings forever

and only a couple of people know, how ridiculous would that idea be? How ridiculous, it would be so ridiculous. But is an alien, shape-shifter, reptile person, is that any weirder than the most recent theory that our entire universe is taking place inside of a black hole that's in another universe? Yeah, there's recent calculations that are leading these, I guess

it would be astrophysicists, like who would be studying this? See if you can find it, Jamie. It's the most bizarre headline. Because you're like, what the fuck are you saying? Like the whole universe is inside of a black hole? New NASA data hints we could be living inside a black hole. Great. That was that. Isn't that weirder than reptile people? Because reptile people's like... Those are the two choices.

Reptile people's not that weird, right? Like, octopi have the ability to completely transform their appearance and instantaneously adapt to an environment. Why wouldn't we assume to some super advanced species from another planet that we would be horrified if we saw their real face, they'd just transform and look like the Queen of England.

Yeah, and go sideways like that. Yeah, fuck. Do you know what a Boltzmann brain is? Have you ever heard of this? No. Okay, so in an infinite universe, infinite, there is only, let's say the size of your brain, it's like, whatever, 20 centimeters cubed or something,

maybe 30 centimeters cubed. Inside that space, there's only so many ways that you can put matter together so that it creates anything. There's a limited number of ways that matter can come together with different elements, different structures, different everything like that. So Boltzmann brain suggests that across an infinite universe there will be a brain the exact

same as yours, the exact structure as yours that comes into existence for a moment and then goes away. And the reason that you could be experiencing the world that you are now, all of your memories, your past, your history, the person that you think you are, is that you were a Boltzmann brain that just comes into existence and then goes. Why do just comes into existence and then goes. Oh. Ludwig Boltzmann. Why do you come into existence and then go away?

Why don't you just exist somewhere else? You could exist somewhere else, but this brain appears just spontaneously because in an infinite universe, there are only so many different ways that you can piece matter together. Right. And it means that if you,

it's the monkey's typewriter thing, it's the exact same as that, but for the way that matter's constructed. It's basically like a brain in a vat idea, but using infinite physics to kind of explain it. The way it was explained to me is that if the universe is truly infinite, not only is there another version of you somewhere,

but there is another version of you that did the exact same thing you have done every step of the way. Every time you sneezed, every hesitation before you spoke your mind, every time you almost went into traffic when you didn't realize their light was still red, all of those things have happened in the exact same order

an infinite number of times and every possible Conceivable variation that you will read instead of blue. Yeah, that you turned left instead of right. Yeah Went trans that a straight all of it all of it That you live in a totalitarian environment that you live in a utitarian environment, that you live in a utopia, that the Germans won the war, that yeah, all that, everything. Everything that could possibly be different would be different in every possible scenario.

That's what infinite means. It means it's so vast. The craziest one to me was the concept that inside every galaxy, in the center of every galaxy is a supermassive black hole and that supermassive black hole is approximately one half of one percent of the mass of the entire galaxy. If you go into that supermassive black hole, so there's hundreds of billions of galaxies, right? Inside that supermassive black hole is an entirely another universe filled with all sorts of different galaxies that have

supermassive black holes in them. You go into one of those, another universe filled supermassive black holes, another universe filled all supermassive black holes, each one another universe. It's just a winds up file all the way down. Why is that weirder than the universe is infinite? Why is that weirder? I mean, just the weirdness of what it is is so fucking insane. The idea that it's infinite or that there's an infinite multiverses and infinite versions of these things inside black

holes and in all sorts of ways that we haven't even really figured out yet. That's not that much weirder than what's real. What's real is insane. What's real is that the whole thing was smaller than the head of a pen and for no understandable reason it expanded instantaneously and became the universe that you see in the sky today. Okay. Okay. What the fuck are you saying? Like, you kinda had a great line about that, that science requires of you but one miracle. The big bang. It's a miracle.

What is it if it's not that? I mean, it's a thing of science, yes. Oh, okay, so if you can study all of the matter and you study all of the forces and all the energy and all the reasons why matter coalesces or matter expands. Yes, you could probably, given enough time and enough quantum computing power, figure out what's causing everything to compress down smaller than the head of a pin and then explode.

But it's still crazy. Even if you had some scientific explanation for it, it's still crazy. It's it's even if you can you had some scientific explanation for it It's fucking insane. I got into super voids. So this The buwett is super void. Yeah, so areas of the universe that have big absences of matter way more Yeah, and there should be and the the buettas supervoid is the biggest one. I think a ton 6118 or something is one of the biggest stars or one of the biggest black holes and then this Buettas supervoid is because you would expect homogeneity across the universe. Things are distributed pretty evenly.

So what's this big hole here? Jamie can you try and and find a boot is, Buetta's super void thing? I love the videos that show you the size of earth and the size of our sun and the size of other suns. You realize just how fucking insignificant you are. You get to suns that are as big as our galaxy. What the fuck? Yeah. What the fuck?

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if there's suns that big, but there's definitely suns as big as our solar system. Well, looking at the night sky gives you a really wonderful piece of perspective. It reminds you just how puny and insignificant you are. I think that's a giant problem with our society is that light pollution keeps us from seeing that all the time. The mysterious hole in the universe that's billions of times larger than the Milky Way.

So go one left, a list of voids. Jamie? Yeah, that one. Just big holes. So you should not have, it should be more evenly distributed. And yeah, the Buettas void, you know, this huge lack. In the middle of, it's so cool. Imagine you take a left turn in a spaceship fuck not here Not the boy to supervoid not again, and then god damn it you can't land for a hundred million years

Yeah, dude I had a Matthew McConaughey on the show toward the back end of last year and we talked about interstellar's 10th-year anniversary that show is still that that movie is still my favorite movie of all time. It's an amazing movie I just saw it again like a couple weeks ago. It was incredible. It's so good. It's so weird Such a weird movie Nolan's a fucking king. He's a wizard everything that he does. Yeah, what's the new one? He's what's his new movie that he's in? Yeah Odyssey

Really, I don't know that story either so I'm kind of Yeah. Mm. What is the Odyssey? Like the Homer, like the Oh God, really? Ooh. I don't know that story either, so I'm kind of Yeah, I don't either. Part of me knows that I should have read it and part of me is glad that I didn't, so I get to I don't know how it finishes, I don't know how it ends. Yeah, I think I probably read it in high school

but I don't remember it at all. This is all we got, I think, because this picture of Matt Damon in this outfit. Oh, he's gonna kill it. He already complains that it's not historically accurate. Why, because of Matt Damon in this outfit. Oh, he's gonna kill it. They're already complaining that it's not historically accurate. Why, because of Matt Damon? No, because that's not what the armor would have looked like, apparently. He wouldn't have been able to see his face, apparently.

Oh, really? Makes for a shit movie, though. Do you know what I mean? They're complaining already. Oh, sorry. Yeah, you can't always be historically accurate, I guess. Yeah, but that's all they got so far. and Tom Holland Robert Pattinson. Nice. Absolutely stacked Did you see?

Matt Damon do Schultz's trailer Yes, I did. Yeah Fucking good. Yeah, I have to say man that uh Schultz's most recent special is one of the best things. I gotta shout out Andrew Schultz. Like that was one of the best things that I've seen in so long. I thought it was fucking phenomenal.

He made me cry when I saw it live here in Austin. Twice, I cried twice. Wow. And then I saw it again before I had him on the show the other week. I was like, in the back of an Uber, and like trying to not let the taxi driver see that I'm welling up, he's talking about,

his wife says something to him where she says, the thing is honey, you don't have problems. We have problems. I was like, oh, it's just so lovely. And him talking about his experience trying to get pregnant and all of that stuff caused me to go and get, get sperm count done. I'm not trying to get anybody pregnant, not the moment.

But- How old are you? 37. Do you have a number where you'd like to start breeding? breathing? Within the next few years, I want to start a family soon. But the gal? Yeah, the moment. Yeah, I do. How long you been with this gal? Six months. Do you ever go on a trip with her? Yeah. Yeah, you on a long trip with them. Well, I think six months might be a little bit early just yet. No, if you want to find out what's up, you gotta go on a trip. Oh, you mean to work out compatibility? Yeah, you gotta see how they deal with travel, how they deal with stress, how they deal with restaurant. What is it? Can they keep up their act when you're with them 24 hours a day for weeks at a time? It

was when I actually did do a week long trip in Jamaica and had to go from Montego Bay to Kingston twice to get my visa renewed. Now traveling through Jamaican traffic with somebody will really tell you an awful lot. So yeah, you're talking about like a Navy SEAL hell week of trying to throw difficult shit in that. So that worked.

Well, you just need to see what people are like when they're with you all the time. Cause people put on a show They put on a show. You're a handsome guy. You're successful. They want to impress you They want to pretend there's something that you would love and then maybe they have ideas of morphing you and changing you over time You know, you like you get a car. I guess pretty good, but I like to update the engine I do some shit to the tires move change the way the interior looks You start changing it and then all sudden Chris is wearing different clothes. What's going on Chris?

I gotta be careful and put these glasses on that's why I have But yeah, I decided to go and get a sperm count thing done. You know a varicoseal is no, okay I did this is something that I think every single guy needs to know about so it's basically I think every single guy needs to know about. So it's basically when you go through puberty, the way that the veins sort of form, that blow heat off from your balls, they can form in a way where they just don't get rid of the heat that efficiently.

Not enough. And it's in 15% of men, so it's super, super common, but 50% of men that go to urologists have got this. And I go in and I've had these balls my entire life. I've had these balls. Thank you I didn't they're not transplants. I've had these balls Since puberty and I found out at the age of 36 or you've got a medium varicose seal so the mad thing about this is Mo you'll know this if you take testosterone it plummets your sperm count

So typically testosterone and sperm kind of work against each other in that kind of a direction. This is the one thing where if you get it fixed, both go up. So the mean change in testosterone is 180 points. How do they fix it? They just, it's surgery. It's a small surgery where they do an incision

in your groin and they just fix the vasculature. Balls and surgery are two things that I don't like together. I like both of them. I don't think they should be together. Never the twain she'll meet. Yeah. Ball surgery is scary. Do you know that if you get your, you can get a dick transplant if like you lose your

dick but you cannot get ball transplants. You know why? No. Because you will carry the DNA of the original person So say if I die and you get my balls, okay, you will have my DNA you have my kids So why can't I have your balls? Well, you could if I gave you permission maybe but it's on why don't we swap one ball each? I was like tossing a coin. See whose kids make it. Oh, it was Lefty that day.

Lefty was the one that came out that day. God damn it, all my kids are Chris's. What the fuck? He'd come out speaking British. That would be fun if we both, like, if you had elective surgery to swap balls with a good buddy. Like, I love you so much, I want to swap a ball with you. Yep.

We both swap. We just don't know which one it's going to be today. You never know. Because I had a gay couple that were friends that lived down the street from me. And they had a kid with Surrogate and they shot their jizz into a cup and mixed it up so they didn't know who's who's gonna be the one Yeah, two men one cup they had to do it twice too because the first time the lady kept the kid

They paid her they did the whole thing at the end of it She decided she wanted to keep the baby do the ethics of surrogacy are really interesting. It's weird at the end of it she decided she wanted to keep the baby. The ethics of surrogacy are really interesting. It's weird. It's a weird thing. You're hiring someone to take to have your baby for you and then wealthy people are doing it so they don't get their cooch stretched out. That was the Kardashian approach. Allegedly that's why she did it. Well maybe she didn't want to carry babies anymore. She had a couple of them the normal way and then but it's like so much of what the child

Experiences in the womb it like leads to this I would imagine this bonding thing with the woman the babies inside of you You remember feeling the baby inside of you grows inside of you then it comes out of you and you raise it and it breastfeeds It's like this bond is I understand surrogacy if someone can't get pregnant, if this is the only way you could have kids. I'm not saying don't do it. But I'm saying it's fucking strange. Because this other person is, whatever anxiety they have, fear, their cortisol levels, if they have domestic abuse in their house, like all that information is being transferred to the child. Pregnancy doesn't just make a kid, it also makes a mother.

Yeah. And it's dangerous. I'm so confi- I mean, test your babies. What happens if we can just create artificial wombs? You know, there's something that's weird. I know that people don't get- they don't choose to be born, but somebody chooses whether or not these two sets of DNA are going to come together. If you've just got sperm donor after sperm donor and egg donor after egg donor and artificial wombs, it gets to the stage where people

kind of aren't choosing who's coming into reality that much anymore. Well, that is definitely the future. I mean look at plummeting sperm counts, look at I mean look at plummeting sperm counts, look at rising miscarriage rates, look at the problems that people are having with microplastics and the disruption of the endocrine system and pesticides and herbicides and all these different ubiquitous chemicals that are affecting people's sperm counts and fertility. It's a real factor and it's plummeting. If you look at the, if you look at like human beings from the last 60, 70 years and you look at males in America where their sperm count used to be and where it is now, it's rapidly decreasing. There's

a lot of factors, sedentary lifestyle, processed foods, but there's also environmental factors that seem to be altering the actual way a child develops in the womb. And this is Dr. Shana Swan's work. Countdown. Yeah, which is an incredible, just, it's an incredible book, but it's just an incredible fact that the plastics that we use from microwave foods and water bottles and all that stuff is literally changing the development of children. It's changing the size of their testicles, the size of their penises, the anogenital distance. Yeah, yeah, the taint shrinks. It's really crazy stuff and it's it replicates

what happens in mammals when they do these studies with rats and hamsters and same things happen. A third of all children globally are going to be obese by 2050. Jesus. That's the current trajectory and 1 billion people worldwide are obese. So the number one form of malnutrition globally is obesity, not starvation. There's twice as many people that are obese than are starving. That's crazy.

If that's not a comment on problems of abundance as opposed to problems of scarcity. Yeah, it's not even abundance though. It's the food is so calorie rich and filled with shit. You know, that you just, you just, you get so fat so quick. Like if you're eating nothing but junk food and drinking nothing but soda as I sit here with a large Diet Coke, which I usually don't drink but I do occasionally. That is like a Diet Coke at least doesn't have the calories but if you're having a large Coke like that like if you have a Coke like this what is this a liter? This is probably a liter. 750 maybe or a liter? Yeah it's a liter. So how much sugar is in one liter of Coca-Cola? Let's

find that out. But there's nothing in that one, right? Which is why it's a diet. Yeah, it's just brain cancer. Donald Rumsfeld approved brain cancer. Yeah. 94.7 grams of sugar in that one. 94.7 grams. And people polish these things off every day. Someone's polishing off a two liter of Mountain Dew listening to this as we speak. So that's probably double that. So that's hundreds, hundreds of grams of sugar. The big gulps. The average American is fatter than the average American pig now. It's true, it's true. Average American man, 28% body fat. Average American woman, 40% body fat.

Average American pig, 15 to 25% body fat. Oh my God. Yep. I would have thought it would be higher than 28%. I think we're doing pretty good. For guys? Yeah. Yeah, well I guess it's offset by like Brian Johnson

and all of the Azempic people that are just like super shredded. And then there was that other thing about you talking about kids, that some huge percentage of 18 to 24 year olds couldn't join the military. Like 70% because of mental health or obesity or drug use or something. And half of them had two or more of these excuses for why you couldn't do it. And I think if you track over time, the amount of military service that people have had, so much less. Now, it's so much less. And I wonder how many of the issues that we're seeing, even women being attracted to guys, I think that what you want to do

as a guy is try and signal the, again, the same as going to the gym, reliable, orderly, conscientious, I can be on time, I can do hard things. This is one of the proposed explanations for the baby boom was that a lot of men that did come back from war were signaling their eligibility, signaling how reliable they could be, and it made it easier for women to be attracted in that way. That makes sense.

I mean, imagine a woman. You're going to get pregnant. And so you're going to be, you could work for a little while, but towards the end, you're not going to be able to work. And then after the child, it's going to be very difficult to work. So you're reliant on this other person. How well do you know this person?

Did you do that 10-day vacation in Jamaica with that guy? Did you drive from Montego Bay to Kingston twice in bad traffic? Do you know what happens when he makes mistakes? Does he blame other people or does he apologize? Like what, who is he? You know, because all that shit's gonna come up when you get four hours sleep because the baby's crying and And then you know, maybe he doesn't like his job anymore. He wants to quit and you're like you can't quit motherfucker You have to feed us. You have to take care of a family now.

You're not gonna just quit. What are you talking about? You don't like your job? Show up. And I can't imagine relying on another person like that. I mean, this is why women are so picky. Like when you see that 80% of the women are attracted to 20% of the men,

and that's what that is. What did you expect? What did you expect? It's hard to have your shit together. It's hard to be kicking ass in this fucking complicated, bizarre world that we live in. It's hard. So for a woman, of course, they're going to grab... What about personality?

Yeah, you're a fucking lazy bitch. That's part of your personality. Part of the reason why you're not successful at 40 years of age has to be you. Has to be. Some of it has to be. I mean, it could be a fucking avalanche of bad luck, one thing after the other. But I would like to see that you're making progress towards a better direction. I would like to see that you're making progress towards a better direction, but if you're stuck in this mindset of the world fucks me over, it's like never going to...

No one's going to want to be with you. No one's going to want to have children with you. No one's going to be willing to rely on you to support a family. You have to get your shit together and you have to also be attractive, which is just dumb luck. You have the dumb luck of genetics. You got a good face. Ooh, you know, you got a good body. A lot of that's genetics too. You know, like what they like and what they don't like is mostly about breeding. It's mostly

about is this person reliable to breed with? It's interesting to think about the, you mentioned earlier on about going to the gym is right-wing and liking fast cars is right-wing and all the rest of it. The number of liberal women that are struggling, I think, to find an eligible partner is going up because they just can't find a guy that'll hold the door open for them,

that'll treat them like a lady, that'll try and be the protector, provider, procreator thing. You go, you're talking about a conservative, you're talking about somebody who's more traditional in that way. And I get worried, you know, I sort of talk a lot about this stuff on the show, and I get worried

about not helping men to improve in this sort of zero sum view of empathy, that if you give some attention to men and the way that they're struggling, that it takes it away from some other more deserving group. So a lot of the time, if someone's falling behind, 50 years ago, Title IX gets introduced for women. It's not enough women in higher education, it's not enough women expediting them

through socioeconomic status. 50 years later, they've blown the fucking roof off the glass ceiling. It doesn't exist. Two women for every one man completing a four year US college degree by 2030. Women earn way more than men do in their 20s, way more. And now, how are you, it's gonna be difficult

for you to find an eligible partner as you begin to climb up your own socioeconomic ladder as you get higher and higher up. You look across and there are fewer and fewer men over there. And what you think is, okay, well, typically if a group is falling behind in society, we don't tell them to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.

We spend billions of money in taxpayer funded charities and think tanks to try and work out what's going on and to try and bring them along for the ride. That's not happening with men because vestigially for so long men had it so good. And now it's, I don't know, it feels like twisting the knife in some sort of karmic retribution in a way.

Like this is penance that you're paying. But a lot of guys, you can look at the number of CEOs and sure, guys that outperform on the top end, yep. But that's not necessarily due to privilege, it's because putting yourself in that position to do what you need to do to get yourself to the position of being a founder, being a CEO, running a successful company, is so fucking insane that most women would just choose to not go and do that. You're talking about outliers. Evolutionary psychology says that men and natures play things, that there's more variability, there's more male geniuses but there's also more male retards. And it's all well and good pointing to the number of CEOs and Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and all the rest of it. That doesn't help the guy who is

really struggling and has had that run of bad luck and has been really struggling trying to work on himself and yeah if women have a problem a lot of the time we say what can we do to fix society any other group but if men are struggling we say what is it that men are doing where they can't fix themselves yeah and in some ways that's inspiring like guys want that sense of like I can fucking do this I can do this but it denies that the structural problems I think the education system for young boys is really really tough getting them to sit in a classroom still for six hours a day.

It seems like females are just better at doing that. Young girls are more effective at a sort of brain-based economy, highlighting and planning ahead of the homework that they've got to do and the assignments and stuff like that. And you just roll that forward. Two women for every one man completing a four year US college degree. Then I'm not saying let's rip women out of the classroom and out of the boardroom and

put them back into the kitchen. Obviously not. Obviously that's not what either of us are saying. What do you think is the cause of it? What do you think is the reason why more men aren't succeeding and getting college degrees and more men aren't going out and making as much money in their 20s. I think that the current environment does not necessarily lend itself to the disposition that men have got. So they're less conscientious than women from a personality standpoint on average.

That means that it's really difficult comparatively on average for you to be able to remind yourself that you need to do the sort of homework. Men are more predisposed to addiction, they're more predisposed to using recreational drugs, they're more predisposed to being in jail, all of this sort of gang stuff that people get drawn into. It's just more likely for guys, there are more routes that men can be pulled away in that sort of a manner.

And on top of it, I don't think that there is a particularly inspiring vision on top of it, I don't think that there is a particularly inspiring vision for what men is. But you said earlier on about fitness right wing, fast cars right wing. There was this thread on Reddit, I think, in a left leaning forum that said, people of the left, can you give me a good example of who you think

a positive male role model would be? The top voted one was Aragon from Lord of the Rings. What about Fabio? You've had to go to a fantasy land in order to be able to find somebody who's sufficiently pure. And I think that, you know, this is one of the issues that we see on the left, which is there is no level of purity or the level of purity you need to be able to get to is so high. It doesn't exist. How many people have gone from left to right? I left the left type thing like that. Quite a few. How many people have gone from right to left? Very few. Why? Because if you have got a

slightly fettered past, if you maybe said things in the past that didn't agree with where we are at now. The right will welcome you with open arms, but the left won't. Why do you think that is? I think that there is a level of puritanism on the left where they are unprepared to, they're unprepared to accept people who have had positions that they don't agree with. There seems to be this odd purity spiral where they're constantly trying to point out people who are no longer agreeing with the ideology du jour of the modern world. What do you think? Why do you think it is?

I think that's probably a factor. I also think that corporate America, the whole structure of it with human resources and people working together. It's just like, it's not necessarily what men want. What men want, if you want men to work in the best environment possible for men, they would work with mostly men. And they would probably be able to speak and communicate in a way that they did on madmen. You know, they'd act like men. Like men like to act like men. Most men that are involved in corporate life act like some strange character that is what a man is supposed to be. Especially if you're supposed to espouse all the latest social justice, you know, whatever

the mantra is that you have to repeat. If you have to rigidly adhere to an ideology in order to fit in with your corporate environment, you're going to do that. And you're going to be trapped in that. And you're going to just desperately want some escape. That's why CEOs wind up going to Dominatrix and getting fucking ball gagged and kicking the balls and shit. Like, what do you think that is? It's like they need something, something wild to escape from the mundane existence that they have in the corporate world.

That's a person that's in control all the time, so privately I need to be out of control. It's just not compatible for most men. Like that type of environment. A work office environment is not compatible. Nobody wants to do that. What you want is the rewards of that. You want the money. You want success. You want status. You want all those things.

You want the corner office. But what you don't want is to work in that environment. If you could choose to make the same kind of money doing things that you love to do, having fun, like if all these corporate CEOs could make as much money playing golf, I bet they would play golf. I don't think they really wanna be doing that. They're doing that because it's the way in order,

it's the way to succeed and the way to make money. And it feels like hell. It feels like hell. You're stuck in traffic every day. You're stuck in traffic every day. You're stuck in the office. You're not working eight hours a day if you want to really make it. And this is the difference. This is like the why the wage gap between men and women was such an insidious lie because they were always saying women make 75 cents to every dollar a man makes and people repeat that without understanding what it actually means. No, it's job choices and hours worked.

Those are the primary factors that lead to men earning more money than women. It's not a man and a woman are doing the same job and someone rips off the woman by only giving her 75 cents to what the man works. If that was the case, and the woman does just- Everybody would employ women. Yeah, you would only employ women because women, you'd pay them less, they'd do a better job anyway, right ladies? So there you go.

It's nonsense. But that thing that Obama repeated on television, I remember watching him say that going, he knows better than this. This is bullshit. This is a bullshit statistic. But it's a heart-strength statistic. It plays on your, what you want to believe rather than what's true and Women have to take time off for maternity leave. They have to you know, if they get pregnant it's gonna significantly

Significantly impact the amount of hours they're willing to work They might not want to do the job anymore once they're raising their children if their husband's making enough money They probably want to quit they want to be at home with their kids It's a normal thing and then a lot of women who are career corporate women are shamed for wanting to at home with their kids. It's a normal thing. And then a lot of women who are career corporate women are shamed for wanting to stay home with their children. Yeah, oh, you've been conned by the patriarchy into being a domestic prostitute. So I was talking to, was it Schultz that said this?

I think it was. He was telling me on the show, he said that his wife used to work at Google, I think. She's like super high powered, real smart lady. And she used to bump into her old colleagues in the supermarket when they were together. And the classic question that somebody that's in the career trenches asks somebody else is,

oh, so what are you doing now? You left work, what are you doing now? And Schultz said this sentence that his wife replied with would fucking kill him. She says, oh, I'm just a mom. He said, it's the just that really hurt. I'm just a mom. Well, that's how you feel like you're supposed to admit

that you're just a mom. That fucking hurts, dude, to derogate the people that are literally raising the next generation. That's another point actually about sort of men falling behind. I think it seems like Young boys are more negatively impacted by fatherless homes than young girls are so any boy That grows up in an in intact a non intact

Household is more likely to end up in jail or prison than they are to complete college Yeah in the US. Any non-intact that's adopted, step-parent, single-parent, any non-intact home, they're more likely to end up in jail or in prison than they are to complete college. And the same statistic is not true for girls. And this again, the zero-sum-ness of the,

so what are you saying? Are you saying that we need to hold girls back? It's like, no. You do not need to hold one saying that we need to we need to hold girls, but it's like no You do not need to hold one group back in order to be able to raise another one up We spent 50 years really Pedestalizing and helping take the reins off of young girls so that socio-economically they can look after themselves They're no longer financial prisoners of their partner, which is a big deal You look at the divorce statistics from the past and proclaim it as some you know You look at the divorce statistics from the past and proclaim it as some amazing cultural outgrowth.

And you go, how many women stayed in those relationships because they fucking couldn't afford to leave? They had no other option to do that. That's scary. That's scary. That's why women are so picky. And they should be. Yep.

That's, yeah. It's also crazy that we put value in our lives on money above everything, including above doing a good job raising your children. You put the money that you earn above that, and you just get daycare during the day. I'll be home at six, that's fine. That's plenty of time to be with my kid. And there's a lot of people that live their life by that, and their ledger, when they look at the amount of money that they've earned, that's the reward.

It's the greatest metric in the world though. It's the most easy to optimize thing. Like I can tell you the size of the house that I live in, I can tell you how much money I earn, I can tell you what the car is like that I drive. But I can't tell you how much peace I have when my head hits the pillow at night. I can't tell you what the quality of the relationship between me and my wife or me and my kids is.

I can't tell you how much time I got to spend in a hammock last week. You know, these are the things I think that if you were able to metric it, if you were able to make it a game, people would be able to pay an awful lot more attention to it. But the money is the best game in the world. It's literally transfer currency exchange. You can exchange it. I know what your wealth is compared with that guy in Japan, compared with that dude in Russia,

compared with this person that's Australian. Whole world, it's the best game ever created. And it's the game that so many people use to show their value. I mean, it's not just the richness of your life, the happiness that you have, the fulfilled feeling that you have when you do whatever it is that you do,

when you feel like you have a sense of purpose. No, that's not, can't quantify that, can't measure it, can't put it on a scale, it's useless. Meanwhile, it's the most important thing. The most important thing is satisfaction. Satisfaction in your life, community, love, friendship, happiness, a sense of purpose. Like you enjoy what you do.

That's so important for life. If you are just doing something you don't want to do just for money, you live in hell. And that's most people. Most people live in this like dull hell. And they try to have fun while they're at work. They try to, you know, have people that they talk to at work, hopefully make some good friends at work and you can enjoy your chitter chatter at the water cooler, but the reality of that life is just mostly suck. There's a lot of problems I think that people that are driven face that don't

get that much sympathy. So I had this idea that type A people have type B problems and type B people have type A problems. So insecure overachievers need to learn how to chill out and lazy people need to learn how to work hard and be more disciplined. And you know most people that listen to shows like yours or mine are probably some version of type A like a kind of walking anxiety disorder harness for productivity. anxiety disorder harness for productivity. That's a great definition. It is.

That's really accurate. I think the thing that type A people realize is that if you're type A, you get very little sympathy because an outwardly successful but miserable person is way less, always appears to be in a much more preferential position than a content being lazy, but on the verge of bankruptcy one. Right. You know what I mean? Right, right. So problems of opportunity

will always get less sympathy than ones of scarcity. Like one feels like a choice and the other feels like a limitation. One is like a bourgeois luxury and the other is like a systemic imposition. You know, I need someone to teach me how to switch off and relax feels Dopaminergic and opulent and addicted and privileged I need someone how to to teach me how to work harder feels noble and upward aiming

Like you're supporting you're supporting the the downtrodden like every you're supporting the downtrodden. Like every underdog movie in history has a training montage of some guy down on his luck that gets saved by the right woman or a Japanese dude that teaches him to wash cars or whatever it is and through grit and spit and sawdust, he sorts himself out and he fixes his life. No movie explains how to log out of Slack at 6 p.m. or spend a day at the

beach without feeling guilty. So yeah, I think in that sense, type A people may objectively have better lives, but subjectively they're ravaged by the sense that they've never done enough. They wake up every single morning feeling as if they're already trying to repay some productivity debt. And only if they dance through the day completely perfectly, nail every single task, can they go to bed not feeling like a wasteman. That's where they're at. Congratulations.

You might be very successful. You also might be very miserable. You're most likely going to be miserable. That's the cold hard reality of most CEOs. Most really wealthy people when you see them pull up in the yacht, they're fucking living hell. I think when you look at people that are super outlier performance, you should probably, your first emotion should not be envy, it should be pity. You should think, what's that person, what's it like inside of that person to drive them to do what they did to themselves, to put them in that position? What's their background

like? What happened in their childhood? What do they think about their own sense of self-worth? Yeah, or how much Adderall are they on? The old performance enhancer. Yeah, the testosterone for the businessman. It's not just performance enhancer, I think it changes the way you approach things. I think that- Have you ever taken it?

No, no, I'm scared of speed. I'm scared of anything that I think I would really like. Yeah, you haven't done cocaine for the same reason, right? Yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Well I was very lucky when I was in high school I knew some people that had problems with it. And big warning sign. Yeah well and back then I was very driven like I didn't even party really I only wanted to get good at martial arts I was so driven that I

didn't want to do anything that would interfere with anything else. What was it that drove you? Why? Why this drive for so long? Ah, it's probably a lot of factors. I mean I got into it because I didn't want to get picked on because I didn't know how to fight and I would be nervous around bullies. I didn't know what to do. And I'm like this, I don't like this feeling at all. So I will become what everyone's afraid of.

So I'll do that. And then when I got into it, I realized that, first of all, I realized that I could get really good at things. I realized that whatever drive that I had and whatever thing about fighting, which was so scary to me, why it was so appealing to me at the same time,

and I realized that it was like a vision quest. I was on this quest to try to figure out how to harness my potential and what better way than to do something that's very difficult and very scary. And then if you could get really good at something very difficult and very scary, you could probably master life. So you had this gateway drug through martial arts

that was a proof to you that you could self-author? Yes, yeah, a proof that I wasn't a loser. For me, it was like that I could be successful. Where did that, I've heard you say that before about the loser thing. Where did that fear come from? Did you feel powerless as a kid at some point? Yeah, I'm sure it comes from broken home,

moving around a lot, a lot of factors. There's a lot of various factors. But it's also just the existential angst of being a young man. Like, they're looking for purpose. Like, who am I? What do I do? Am I good at anything?

Like, what gives me value? And for me, when I started doing martial arts, it was the first time that I was respected. And not just respected, like, I remember the first time I realized that people would gather around when I fought I was like whoa this is kind of crazy like they're they specifically want to watch me fight and that was a big deal to me is like that I was so good that people were gathering around really was they wanted to see something horrible.

They wanted to see someone get head kicked, you know, and they knew I did the right. Reliably, you could kick them in the head. I was pretty good at it. And so that changed me, it changed my self-reflection, it changed who I was. I wasn't a loser. Now I was an extreme winner and really good at it and super

disciplined and driven beyond anything that I thought was possible before I'd done that. I never had like that kind of focus before I got into martial arts, but martial arts demanded that kind of focus because you can't pretend. There's no pretending you're good. You have to be good. There's no pretending you're fast. You have to be fast. There's no pretending to be technical. You have to be perfect.

Your technique has to be perfect because you're fighting against other trained killers. Like you're not fighting- Your weaknesses will be revealed. You're gonna get hurt. And I saw so many people get hurt. Doesn't matter about what you tweeted. It doesn't matter about your beliefs

stepping onto the mat. Your fucking rainbow flag that you have on your t-shirt. Nobody gives a shit. So on that, I think that's a very common pattern, especially for young people who feel a little bit helpless in their life. I find a vector that makes me feel worthy. The most common story of high performers, I think,

is that I needed to do something to get the world to recognize me. One of the problems, I think, as people grow up is that they internalize this belief that the only way that the world will value me is if I can continue to perform at this high level. And I think that there comes, some people can imbibe a type of insecurity

in that if I stop doing these things, if I stop being as impressive to the world, it's going to deny me its love, that I'm gonna be unwanted, unworthy, and I think that this, talking about the high performer thing, talking about the pity of the CEO, go, how much are you running towards something that you want? And how much are you running away from something that you fear?

That this not enoughness. Right, right, right. And the way I looked at it and the way I was taught was that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. And that through the incredible struggle of training and competing, you will learn more about your ability to excel at anything.

You know, this is the Miyamoto Musashi path. And I think that the problem with anything extreme but also fleeting and athletic performance is fleeting and athletic performance is fleeting if you're The very best you have a couple of decades at the very best if you're really lucky You have a couple of decades to define your you as a competitor But then your body will give out your age will win the the the beating that your body takes From all the training and all the competing eventually You're not going to be able to perform at that level anymore and you're gonna fall off and you see it with fighters

It's it's really hard with professional fighters where their whole identity is wrapped up in being a champion Their whole identity is being the king of the hill and then they're no longer the king of the hill and sometimes it happens very rapidly of the hill and then they're no longer the king of the hill and sometimes it happens very rapidly sometimes it happens over the course of just one or two fights you go from being the pound for pound best in the world to a guy who nobody thinks is going to win the title again like that so six months later you're in a totally different reality you're in a depressed reality and then maybe you are physically depressed because maybe you got really hurt in your last fight, so you're probably suffering from some brain damage. So you've got endocrine disruption, your pituitary glands probably fucked, your cortisol levels are through the roof, your hormone levels are all fucked up, you might have a hard time losing weight, you know, you're

tired and depressed because your levels are all fucked up and your hormones because you basically got your brains beat in six months capacity to fix the very problem has been taken away from you and you you see it sometimes with one fight you know with a fighter you see like Tony Ferguson is like my favorite example who was the boogeyman the light heavyweight the lightweight division of the UFC for years for years he was the guy who's like this unstoppable force that had bottomless cardio, never stopped coming after you and was just hell bent on destruction and beat the fuck out of everybody, beat the fuck out of everybody for years until

he fought Justin Gagey. And Justin Gagey beat him so bad, he was never the same again. He was never the same guy again. He went from being a favorite in the Justin Gagey fight, I think he was a slight favorite going into that fight, to after the fight was over, he got stopped in the later rounds and never, never recovered. Went on- You think that was a physical thing or a mental thing?

Both. More physical than mental. Because I think Tony's mental, his fortitude is unstoppable. He's just got this mindset. But I don't think his body responded the way he looked. I saw it on a stand machine with David Goggins. And Goggins is screaming at him to keep going. He gets off, throws up in a bag, and gets back on the stand.

No, he's an animal. His mind is unstoppable. But at a certain point in time, particularly when you're being tested, right? So you're doing the USADA protocol at the time and now it's a drug-free sport. So there's no peptides. There's nothing that can aid you in recovery. You can't supplement your hormones. You can't recharge your hormone development.

You can't, there's so many things that you can't do because they are in fact performance enhancers that would help you recover. You know, if a guy like Tony Ferguson after that fight got on hormone replacement, got on testosterone, got his levels up pretty high, got to a point where he could train as hard, he probably wouldn't have had the slide that he had. I think part of the slide is that everybody has to be natural. And when you're natural and you get beat up a few times, you're not the same person anymore. And I've seen it many, many times, one bad beating and the guy's done. It's a big thing in boxing. In boxing, everybody points to Meldrick Taylor

is one of the best examples. Fought Julio Cesar Chavez. Chavez broke him down in the fight and then stopped him with like a couple seconds to go in the last round. Dropped him and the referee called the fight with a couple seconds to go in the last round. And Meljer Taylor was never the same again. And he did interviews after the fight and the interviews after the fight, like a couple years later, pronounced slurring in his words, a very clear deterioration of his reflexes and his speed, very clear deterioration in his ability to take a punch and even avoid punches.

His reflexes were off. Have you ever felt any TBI stuff from your heritage of doing striking? No, not really. I'm sure it made me impulsive. I'm sure I probably got the right amount of brain damage to succeed in life. I think so. Because it made me not, I'm not very risk averse.

I like risks. I enjoy them. I get a thrill out of taking chances. I'm not afraid to fail. I don't mind because I know that failure produces some of the best results. Every time I've ever failed at anything I've always, the humiliation and the pain of it has always forced me to work so much harder. Failure in comedy is a gigantic blessing. If you have one good bombing,

whoo, it sucks like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother but when it's over you realize that that can happen. You fucking tighten up your battleship. Some of the biggest growth leaps that I've seen in comics and even in fighters is a humiliating loss. Yeah, there's a special category of lesson that I've been thinking about. It's one that you can only learn

by sort of having gone through it. And I think that bombing on stage or having a poor performance, I think that that's one of them. So. I think most of them you only learn by going through it. And I think that bombing on stage or having a poor performance, I think that that's one of them. So. I think most of them you only learn by going through them. You learn something from watching other people's mistakes, which is why I've never done cocaine.

Uh-huh. But maybe if I did do cocaine, I would have been sober a long time ago and I would have had a much better understanding of the abyss. Cocaine is a performance enhancer. Yeah, it's strange, you know, no matter sort of how arduous or costly or effortful it's gonna be for us to find

out these things for ourselves. For some reason we insist on disregarding the mountains of warnings that we have from our elders, historical catastrophes and public scandals and film and TV and we think some version of yeah that might be true for them but not for me but it's the like watch me do this mom mentality and yeah we decide to learn the hard lessons the hard way over and over again and unfortunately always seems to be the big things you know it's never about how to charmingly introduce yourself at a cocktail party or put up a level set of shelves. It's never that. It's always, we spend most of our lives learning firsthand the warnings that previous

generations gave us over and over again. And then one day you're like, I'm gonna throw all my money in crypto. And then you will know about that. But that's one of them. One of them is money won't make you happy. Fame isn't gonna fix your self-worth. You don't love that pretty girl. She's just hot and difficult to get. You will regret working too much. Worrying isn't aiding your performance.

Nothing is as important as you think it is when you're thinking about it. Over and over again, you should see your parents more. All your worries are a waste of time. Like these, it's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life, like these are so trite. They're such basic bitch insights because everybody has heard them before.

But if they're so basic, why does everyone who ends up arriving at them talk about them as if they've just had religious revelation? You know what I mean? Like they have this fervor to them about why it is so important for you to listen that we couldn't have seen this coming. How could we have seen this coming?

It's like it is in every single fable and story from the rest of time. And I think that one of the reasons this happens is, if you don't have a thing, looking at somebody who has that thing, they have the solution to your problem. If you don't have money, you believe that by having money, all of your problems would be fixed.

If you don't have fame, you believe that fame is the thing that's going to get. If you don't have the girl, you think that getting the girl is going to do those things. And it is only by getting there and looking back and going, the issue that I thought would be fixed by getting the thing wasn't fixed, fuck, I need to look deeper. So not only do we refuse to sort of learn the lessons,

if you talk about this on the internet, if you have a rich person on who says, you know what man, I earned a couple of billion dollars and I'm still pretty miserable. You bring some actress on, she says, you know all of the fame and stuff like that, it really didn't fix my self worth. The internet hates that.

It's a very contentious point to bring up. And I think that we believe our particular mental makeup would allow us to dance through this minefield. Yeah. Right? No no no my unique inner landscape would be solved by this problem. Especially men. Watch me dance through this minefield, avoid all of the tripwires, do a couple of pirouettes and I won't kick any of them. Yeah. And then you kick one. And you realize, oh fuck, this worry of mine

was so much more deeply rooted than the thing that's from outside. But I genuinely believe that you kind of need to learn it yourself. I don't think you can. I've got Naval on the show on Sunday. He's great. He's fucking phenomenal.

I think that, by the way, the one that you did with him in 2019 is the best podcast episode of all time. Really? That two hours. Yeah, it's just one I've gone back, maybe it's just like personally meaningful to me, but I must have listened to that, I think more than any other.

He's very wise. He's awesome. Very wise person. Although he did tell me that if he could invest more money in Clubhouse, he would have. And I was, we were talking on the phone. I was like, dude, I think this is just bad podcasting. I don't think, I don't think there's,

but Clubhouse took off during the pandemic because people found themselves at home and you know, it's kind of cool to be able to hop on to a call with a bunch of other people. And you're basically sharing ideas with people you've never met before and intellectually sparring and people loved it. But I was like, bro.

When the world reopens. I did it with Tim Dillon. We did an episode once and he was like, yeah, it goes out there and then, you know, no one ever has it. I go bullshit. People are recording this right now. I go, it's going to be online. And he was online immediately.

Immediately. I go, this is nonsense. Yeah. It's like the mothership making people put their phones in the bag, but you can reopen the bag. It's like that if you could reopen the bag. Yeah. Yeah, but you can reopen the bag. It's like I'm allowed to do this Just like it's like wait with everything's yeah. Yeah It's a real interesting one, but he's got this quote where he says It's far easier to achieve our material desires than it is to renounce them. Hmm

It's much easier for you to drive a beat up Chevy truck if your last car was a Ferrari. Sure, yeah. Because you've closed that loop, that what if. I wonder if it is the money, I wonder if it is the fame, I wonder if it is the. But it depends on the circles you're keeping too, because if you're keeping circles that are valuing

those items that show like you've achieved milestones, you know, there's a bunch of people that they, you know, you don't have a Maybach, oh. You don't have a this, huh. Keeping up with the Joneses is a hell of a fucking joke. Oh, your house is not in the best neighborhood, huh. I was thinking about why I'm attracted to some of my friends, like why I like to spend time

with some over others, and I sort of realized this interesting dynamic that I hadn't really heard get talked about much, which is we think that we want to be charismatic. Like we think we want to step into a room. Our stories are electric. Energy, the aura, everyone's super impressed by us. I didn't actually notice that that was the sort of people that I was choosing to hang around with. There's this story about Jenny Jerome who was

Winston Churchill's mother and she gets to dine with William Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli, the Prime Minister and the opponent, one night after the other. And she says after I left the dinner with Gladstone I left feeling like he was the smartest person in England and after I left the dinner with Disraeli I felt like I was the smartest woman in England and I think this really helps to explain why we're why we gravitate towards certain people mm-hmm some people feel interesting and around some people we feel interesting yeah and that's my favorite sort of person. I think charisma, being charismatic, being energizing, it's the sort of thing lots of people are seduced by.

They love the sound of it. But it's kind of like developing real charisma. Like Matthew McConnell has said opposite this guy and he's fucking oozing charisma. But it's way easier to be interested than it is to be interesting and it gets you probably 80% 90% of the way there just by caring and ask me questions Yeah, I want to know what you think about this, right? That's cool Joe tell me tell me more about that And why do you think that you're built that way? Right and it helps I mean people just love to talk about themselves and the other thing is you know everything that you know You know barely anything that the other person knows right?

And I mean this is why our job is largely the most selfish one that we could do we've hey is you know everything that you know. You know barely anything that the other person knows. And I mean, this is why our job is largely the most selfish one that we could do. Hey, smart person, come on here and tell me about your entire life's work. Tell the least educated person in the room about what it is that you've spent your time doing. Yeah, and it's also,

it's very beneficial for the people that are listening, which is another service that it provides. Like you get to be you. Like the person listening to your podcast gets to be you as you interview these spectacular people. So they get to like, oh, why did you do that? And then you say, why did you do that? And like, yeah, good question.

Good question. You know what it feels like? It feels like watching a sports game sometimes. I think the best conversations, whether they're around a table or a podcast or whatever, it feels like watching a sports match and the two teams are kind of working together to get the ball in the goal.

And you go all excited and you're like, oh, he's gonna do this. Oh, the head kick, whoa, that's what I wanted. And yeah, if you're ever listening to something, I'm sure that this maybe happened to people listening to this episode. They go, fuck, I hope he asks him about the thing. Hey, ask him about the thing!

Yeah. And yeah, there's this sense that there's a third participant, not just Jamie, in the room. Where's Carl? No. I just realized there should be a fourth participant. Carl snores a lot. Okay, he's a sound risk?

Sometimes he gets a little loud. And while the podcast is going on, Okay, he's a sound risk sometimes he gets a little loud And while the podcast is going on you hear me like nudge him Roll him over make him shut up Yeah I am it depends on who I'm talking to like if I'm talking to like a theoretical physicist and there's like some very difficult Thing to grasp and you hear Carl snoring Becomes a little bit of an issue if it's coming through the headphones He's loud sleep train sleep train that dog. No you can't

Have you seen what their faces look like when the skulls Bulldog skulls no, oh, it's horrible what they've done to them through selective breeding. Yeah, just slowly slowly Shove their fucking skull. It's all twisted where their sinuses are like non-existent. Their whole face is just smushed in. So we can't really complain about the snoring. Well, I mean, we did it to them. They used to be wolves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used to be a wolf. Yeah. I told you about that man crush that I had last time, that unkillable soldier guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and it sent me down a rabbit hole. I fell in love with stories of crazy bastards from history So I found this other dude called a mo Kovan and I've heard of that guy the Finnish soldier

Yeah, yeah so he is out on patrol with a bunch of Finnish soldiers small group and They come upon a Soviet force way bigger than they are small group and they come upon a Soviet force way bigger than they are. They can't fight them so they have to flee. As they're fleeing, they're skiing away through the snow and the force is way bigger. Amel is at the front, he's trailblazing, trying to break free from this group but he can't go fast enough. If they get caught, they're going to be captured or killed or worse. So he needs to speed up. He doesn't know how he's carrying the entire patrols supply of pervitin a pervitin was a German miracle drug that was used to keep soldiers awake during the war math

It's otherwise known. Yep as methamphetamine and He decided I mean you might think this wasn't just any normal meth, right? This was pharmaceutical grade, wartime human horsepower. Right? It was the most intense. So you might think tolerating the dose could be a good idea. There's a rumor that apparently it had melted in his pocket, but whatever he did, he took 30 people's worth.

He took 30 soldiers worth of meth, the entire packet, just ate the entire packet. Whoa. Unsurprisingly, he manages to break away from the pursuing Soviets and he leads his group away. So they, they chill out on the far side once they're finally free and they notice that Amo's behaving a little bit oddly and he seems to be a danger to himself and to them. So they take his ammo out of his rifle and they take his knife off him and they're sort of putting stuff away in the pack they turn around he's gone like fuck where's ammo gone he skis for 63 miles on his own just skis away doesn't really know what he's doing he's in this sort of fever

dream thing lays down goes to sleep wakes up the next day no idea where he is doesn't know where his group is doesn't know where the squadron it doesn't know where he is immediately sees know where his group is doesn't know where the squadron. It doesn't know where he is Immediately sees a Soviet soldier over the far side raises his rifle click Fuck they took my ammo Holes the rifle at this Soviet soldier and he explodes in a cloud of white dust Turns out that it wasn't a Soviet soldier It was a tree branch with snow on it and that he's actually hallucinating so he's in a full-on fever dream now and that he's actually hallucinating. So he's in a full on fever dream now.

Whoa. Imagine this Soviet soldier throws the gun at him, he explodes, he's like, fuck, okay, I need to find my squadron, how am I gonna get back to them? So he decides to just try and navigate around for a couple of hours and he sees them over the far side. Sees a fire and he sees his group over the far side,

it's way far away, so he skis for another two hours. Turns out that it wasn't his squadron, it was more Soviet soldiers. So he just skis straight through the middle of the camp. All of these guys immediately chase after him, but there's no chat, like he's the fucking LeBron James of meth, right? You're not.

You're not catching this guy. So he goes straight through again, second night, finds a hut, finds a wooden cabin in the middle of the snow, decides to set a fire, but he doesn't set it in the fireplace. Sets it in the middle of the wooden hut. And throughout the night he sort of shuffles himself further and further away. For some reason his back's getting a little bit warm and he keeps on sort of shuffling himself further and further away.

He wakes up the next morning on the outside of the hut and it's completely burned down. So he's burned the only bit, the only structure that was going to give him any safety, he's managed to burn it to the ground. And as he wakes up, again, sort of may have noticed that this is a recurring theme, a wolverine attacks him. 65 pound wolverine. Fucking fangs, yellow eyes attacks him. So Amo uses his knife, kills this wolverine, fight to the death, kills it. But then he realizes, I don't have a knife because my soldiers took it from me.

It was his compass, which was the only thing he could use to navigate himself. He'd smashed his compass to bits. And then he looks down and it wasn't a wolverine, it was a tree log. So he smashed his compass on a tree log thinking it was a 65 pound Wolverine. He's still just deep, deep in the hole.

Continues to ski around, he's trying to find someone, trying to find any way marker that he can. Now with no way to navigate, he's got no compass, he's got no weapon, I mean the rifle that's got no ammunition in it, he finds a Soviet forward operating base. But you'll know this, a lot of the time when armies left these behind, they booby-trapped the fuck out of them. They booby-trapped everything. So he walks onto the middle of the forward

operating base, immediately gets exploded by a landmine, the foot gets blown. So he's laid there in the snow, kind of waiting to die, and one day later, he's not dead. So he's like well fuck it I might as well try and get into the forward operating base. Gets up, continues to go forward, opens the door to the... He has no foot? It's damaged, it's severely damaged. Gets toward the front of the operating base, opens the door. There's another booby trap there that explodes him and the door like 20 yards backward. He just lays there in the snow waiting to die. He lays there for about five or six days waiting to die.

And he's melting snow in a little tin can thing, like melting it so that he can drink a little bit of water. He's got this door on him. He thinks, well, someone's gonna find me. It's gonna be the Soviets. They're gonna kill me or I'm just gonna die. So he waits. Death doesn't come.

Three Finnish soldiers come upon him of all of the different nationalities, of all of the different people. Three Finnish soldiers come upon him and he thinks finally, through all of this time, after being confused, after getting lost, I'm gonna be saved.

They say, it's okay, we can take you back. We can save you and take you back. And the front guy of the three Finns steps on a landmine, blows himself up. And the other two are like, hey man, there's kind of a priority list here and you're at the bottom and he's at the top. So we're gonna take him back,

but just hold on for another couple of days, we'll come back and we'll save you. They go away and he just thinks, they're not gonna find me again, they're gonna forget, they're not gonna be able to come back, someone's gonna kill me before they do or I'm gonna die or whatever. But they do, they managed to come back,

they managed to get him and they take him back to the medical bay. 14 days was how long he'd been traveling around. He'd moved 250 miles in this time. His resting heart rate was 200 beats per minute. And he weighed 98 pounds. He'd survived this entire time on meth, water that he'd melted down into a tin cup, a couple of pine nut things that he'd melted too, and a single Siberian jade

that he beat to death with his ski pole and just ate raw. And he lived until he was in his 70s, died in like 1989, and just lived a great life. I fucking love that story, dude. This meth-fueled Finnish maniac, just like skiing through everything, setting shit on fire, hallucinating, getting blown up twice, survived it. Meth's a hell of a drug. Maybe you should have done it.

Maybe I should try now. It's amazing what was accomplished on amphetamines. I mean, Norman Ohler's book, Blitz. I loved those episodes that you did with him. Yeah, incredible. It's just an incredible story that they literally went through Poland in three days, just methed out of their fucking minds.

And the most meth was given to the people at the very front, the people that were driving the tanks. They were the most cranked up. Because they'll drive the rest of the group forward. Yeah and also they have to be the most psychotic because you're going to be the first people to encounter resistance. So you need to be the most risk averse. Yeah.

The least risk averse. Least risk averse, the most maniacal and murderous. I wonder, you know, it's kind of a debate around how much of Hitler's behavior was because of Hitler and how much was Amplified worsened by the drugs that he was on that Theodore Morrell that crazy kooky doctor that he had is injecting him with bull semen He's getting cocaine Everything yeah, a lot of it had to do with that. It had to. I mean, it had to. It's a factor. It's a giant factor. Just how much of it?

What would have been like? What would the wars have been like where there's no meth? I mean, that's probably the first amphetamine-fueled war. Right? Was World War I fueled by amphetamines? Did they have amphetamines back then? I mean, I don't know what you do to get people to go over the top to certain

death like how do you I mean you motivate people by everybody else doing it I guess suppose it's sort of crowd behavior in that way. Well they know that meth was given to the kamikaze soldiers which makes sense I mean what it's a great way to just gonna fly that plane right into that boat you're like what? Having a great time. Sure. Yeah no I'm gonna fly to a fucking island and hide During World War one militaries used cocaine and other drugs for medicinal purposes and to enhance performance so cocaine British Army sold cocaine containing pills under the brand name forced March that is the best branding in the world

under the brand name forced march that is the best branding in the world increased endurance suppressed appetite 1960 british army council banned the unauthorized sale of psychoactive drudge does wonder why they did that they didn't want to win you don't have fun what are you the fucking fun police wow that's pretty crazy yeah what is it go pills is that what they give to fighter pilots yeah they give me something um brit British Army's pill number nine, what's that? Pill number nine was just a strong laxative? This is AI. Lies. What was in there? Specific medication used by British Army during World War I.

Primary ingredient, pill number nine was Colamel. Mercurius chloride. a mercury-based compound. Used to treat intestinal infections and other ailments. Oh, okay, just massive diarrhea pills. I don't know how that's a performance enhancer. Yeah, I don't think it is. If your stomach, maybe just clear it out, feel light on your feet, I don't know.

It seems like the cocaine would be more effective to... I mean, cocaine will make you go to the bathroom as well. So- For accomplisher goals. Yeah, you know you said before about sort of that self authoring thing, like taking control of my own life. My friend George has got this great question where he says,

you're stuck in a third world prison and you get one phone call to ring somebody to get you out. Who'd you ring? And that idea I love because it helps you to identify who the highest agency person is in your life. Who is it that can think on their feet, that doesn't need permission to go and do anything, that'll overcome obstacles, that is this sort of,

yeah, permissionless reality bender? Who would you call? I don't know, man. That's a good question. That's a really good question. I'd have to really think about it. Also, I don't know anybody's number. That's true.

Yeah, I guess. That's a problem. Can I Instagram DM them? Is that all right? Can I log in? Actually, can you give me my phone because I've got two factor authentication on. This is going to be really awkward. Is that all right?

Can I, I need to do that. Yeah, I mean, I would be tempted to ring Tim Kennedy. I think he would probably be quite high up on my list Yeah, he would help you a lot if I had access to my phone. Yeah dirty deeds done dirt cheap Correct. Yeah, I mean it might be a bit gratuitous I get I get the sense that he would take more pleasure in getting me out than would be necessary You know what I mean? Yeah, probably Yeah. Yeah I don't know man. That's gotta be the worst place to be in the world. Foreign prison with no way to call somebody. You know this is the criticism about these illegal aliens that have been shipped off to what is it El Salvador? Is it El Salvador

that they're they have the super prisons? Yeah I think that's we spoke about this last time. That was just as they've been created these football stadium sized monstrosities. They essentially got all the gang members off the streets and locked them up and dropped crime radically, dropped violence radically. They essentially said enough of this we're just going to go after all these gang members and lock them all up. And the criticism about these deportees that we're sending people over there, we're sending plain loads of people over there, like what if you're in that group and you're not guilty of anything?

What if you're just a guy who came over here from Mexico and you're a tattoo artist US deports 250 alleged gang members to El Salvador despite court ruling to halt flights Yeah, there's a court ruling to halt the flights. But here's the thing If they are gang members if they are trend to trend a ragwa or the you know, those gang members That's that's a yeah if that if if that's real, then this all makes sense. But the fear is that there's gonna be certain people that are rounded up in this that are not guilty. Collateral damage.

Right, and then these poor people are gonna be trapped in this El Salvador prison, and no one's gonna believe them that they're innocent. It says it all that El Salvador has got a reputation for being so good at prison and law enforcement that they're fucking importing people over there. It's like, oh, we need to, you said before, if I've got a bad knee, I want to go to the guy

that looks after the Lakers. It's like, you're the Lakers PT doc of the rehabilitation, it's not even rehabilitation, I suppose, just incarceration world. Yeah, it's just incarceration, and there's probably a financial incentive We probably pay them to house these prisoners. Hmm, but the question is are we sure? Like how many of these people are being accused of being gang members because maybe they tattoo gang members

You know, maybe they were caught up in a raid and maybe they are friends of gang members Maybe there's an artist who happens to be an illegal or maybe they're someone who's working on a construction site and they get rounded up and they get shipped over there. That's a legitimate question. When you're arresting people and prosecuting people and your goal is to arrest people and prosecute people, you do your best at that. And the question is, how many people get arrested and prosecuted that are innocent? Well, in the real world, what we know is quite a few. Quite a few. I mean, I do a lot of podcasts with my good friend, Josh Dubin, who's spent a considerable amount of his life helping innocent people get out of jail. That's his,

you know, his main thing that he does is work with unjustly prosecuted people. And you find the levels of corruption to be horrific. The prosecutors, DAs, the amount of corrupt judges, it's shocking. It's shocking when you lay the facts of these cases out, like the Ohio Four, these people that were in jail, proven that one of them could not have possibly been there when the crime was committed and still was in there for 30 years. The actual guy who was the informant came out and said that he was told to say all these

things, it's all lies, then was told when they were going to bring it to trial again, you will be arrested for telling lies now. You will either be arrested, you will either be arrested because you're lying now, or you'll be arrested for telling lies previously. So then he won't. This is like that thing, you know, if she thinks she's not a witch and if she floats, she is. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy and then there's the game aspect of it. The game aspect of it is victory, right?

If you're a prosecutor, your job is to arrest people and prosecute them and convict them. That's your job. That's what your self-worth, who you are as a prosecutor, your reputation is based on success. Yeah, your record, your perfect record of this many convictions. It's the same with cops, unfortunately.

A lot of cops, their whole thing is making arrests. It's a shame, isn't it? You talked about the fire service earlier on, three emergency services, fire, police, and ambulance. When the fire service turns up anywhere, I don't think that there's any issues. I don't know how often firefighters find themselves up against a crowd that's unhappy.

Maybe, I guess, if it was a riot of some kind, perhaps. But for the most part, it's a hero that's coming to save the cat stuck in a tree, the house that's on fire, the baby that's upstairs. Like, hooray, well done for you. Medical service turns up. Somebody's really badly hurt or somebody's broken. Some kid at a sports match has broken their leg.

Thank you so much, please. Look after them. Look after them. And then the police turn up. And the reaction could not be more different. And I don't know, I understand that there's a particular type of control that cops have that sort of firefighters and EMTs, firefighters and EMTs are doing stuff exclusively sort of in service of others,

whereas cops are doing something that sort of subtracts away. But it must be tough. Like if you're a good cop, especially now, especially after the last few years, it must be hard because you want to feel proud about your job. It's unbelievably hard. It's also very hard to get people that are good people to sign up for it now because they don't want that abuse.

I wonder if that's been reversed over the last few years. I don't know. I mean, I bet it has in certain jurisdictions, in certain areas where they've valued cops. And you know, this whole defund the police thing was just so wild. It was so crazy to see that people would think that that would be a good idea. And even to spouse it publicly, to erode public confidence in law enforcement, just writ large. You notice that that's largely dropped off now.

Yeah. No one's really talking about defund. Well it didn't work. I mean we had the opposite effect. Crime escalated and the people that lived in the communities wanted the cops back. In the areas that were the worst affected as well. It's a luxury belief. It's something that's held by the upper classes that only impacts the lower classes.

Yeah and it's also a thing that the political establishment will use as a tool to align you with them. People will say it, like Kamala Harris in 2019 was saying, I mean, defund the police, we should defund the police, which is just crazy to say. You need to fund them more, train them better. They need training the way military groups need training constantly, consistently. They're encountering horrific things. My friends who have been cops and have served overseas, most of them will tell you that they suffered more PTSD as cops than they have even in the

military. Yeah, depending upon your service, depending on what you had to do. But a lot of them, it's just like every day you're seeing some nightmarish situation. Horrific violence, domestic violence, child abuse, murdered kids. You're seeing so much horror. And then your version of reality is based on your experiences.

Your experiences are horrific every day. Do you think you'd be able to switch off if you had a job like that? You'd be able to partition, compartmentalize? I wouldn't even ever guess that I could pull it off. I wouldn't even guess. I don't think anybody even understands what that even means unless you've shown up and seen some guy's brains

blown out all over the curb for nothing, for some stupid argument about nothing. When you've seen some woman get shot in front of her kid by the husband, you have no idea. No one has any idea. You don't know unless you experience it. Then you have to go home to your own children, go home to your own wife, and your brain is on fire. You know, your soul is just in agony.

We're watching a video the other day of this guy who had to shoot this guy, this cop. This guy was, something was wrong. It was clearly mentally unstable, was yelling, was, you know, telling everybody what he was going to do. They tased him. That didn't work. Then he's charging at this cop and the cop shoots him and then the cop's sobbing and shaking and his partner's telling him to breathe, how to breathe. And he's just probably the

first person he ever had to kill. It's horrible. It's horrible. And that's, that's, he succeeded. He stopped a threat and he, you know, it was justified. This person was trying to kill him. What about pulling people over and the windows are all tinted and they won't roll down the windows. You're standing there vulnerable. It could be a shotgun inches away from your face and you have no idea. And they've all seen all these videos where people get gunned down.

You pull people over, also in the back window explodes with machine gun fire. I mean they live with that every day. They live with that fear every day. And then they have to hear this rhetoric everywhere of defund the police and calling cops pigs. And it's crazy. It's crazy and it ultimately destroys the fabric of our society. And you know, there's plenty of evidence that cops have done bad things. It's not excusing the bad cops.

There's bad plumbers, there's bad car mechanics, there's bad everything. And there's people that shouldn't be cops. And when you see a video of someone who shouldn't be a cop and is, you know, on their last nerve and snaps at someone or overreacts at someone or brutalizes someone totally unnecessarily, it gives you a very distorted perception of the average encounter that a person has with police officers. Because most of the interactions that people have with police officers are fine. Most of them, the vast majority. No one gets hurt, no one goes to jail. Most of them. You know, but you see the ones that go sideways and you think

this is what cops are doing. They're out there trying to kill people. Wait, that's one of the disadvantages, I suppose, of the way the algorithms work, that edge cases that are unbelievable and shocking are the ones that catch the most fire. And what it creates is it moves the fringe to the middle because most of what you see by design is the stuff that's the most outlandish. And then it gets used as a political tool.

Correct. You mentioned about Biden and Kamala. What do you think you do if you're either of them now? Like Trump's just running ragged, flying high, having all of this fun. Like what are they doing? Like what do you do when you've lost a, two people have lost a campaign in the space of six months?

I don't know, Tim Walz is out there talking again. You say he could fight any Trump supporter? Yeah, he said he kicked their ass and they're scared of him because he could fix a truck. Like it was, they're threatened by his masculinity. I know how could fix a truck. They're threatened by his masculinity. I know how to fix a truck. So he said, I'm like, do you? I bet you don't.

The lady doth protest too much, I fear. I bet if I bring a broken truck to you and a bag of tools, you're fucked. That was kind of the redress, right? That was the attempt. It was like, we're gonna, the symbol of masculinity on the left is going to be Tim Waltz. It was Aragon, Aragon from Lord of the Rings and Tim Waltz.

Yeah, it's so crazy. I just, I think they're lost. I mean, they're also lost in that they can't control the narrative anymore. I think when they had control of Twitter and they had control of all, essentially all of social media and pre-Trump, they had the reins like firmly held. They were in control of the public narrative. If you strayed from that, you will be kicked off social media. You'll be banned from YouTube. And for things that were factually correct,

like the lab leak theory is now finally being embraced by the New York Times. The New York Times, I don't know if you saw that article the other day, they said we were misled. Like, bro, you misled us! We were misled by ourselves. There was a big op-ed in the New York Times that has people up in arms because they're like fucking duh, you're fine, do you know where it is? I could send it to you. I saved it because it's so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. I was like, what are you saying? How are you saying that?

It was you guys. It wasn't just some random people that did that Do you find it anywhere Jamie I Know I saved it which was it called. It was the New York Times saying that we were misled There's a big op-ed in the New York Times Yeah, I read it It I read it for like the first couple chapters, but it's all duh that the whole thing is just fucking duh God, where did I save it? I saved too many things. I'm a hoarder Digital order. I'm a hoarder. Digital hoarder.

I'm a digital hoarder. Do you know why that happens? Do you know why people hoard stuff? The interesting way that their brains work. So looking around this table, you're able to discern between stuff that is useful and stuff that isn't. There it is. We were badly misled about the event that changed our lives.

Who are you badly misled by? Do you think you guys had a factor in that? Since scientists began playing around with dangerous pathogens in laboratories, the world has experienced four or five pandemics, depending on how you count. One of them, the 1977 Russian flu, almost certainly sparked by a research mishap. Some Western scientists quickly suspected the odd virus has had resided in a lab freezer for a couple of decades, but they kept mostly quiet for fear of ruffling feathers. Yet in 2020, when people started speculating that a lab accident might have been the spark that started the COVID-19 pandemic, they were treated like kooks and cranks. In this newspaper, many public health officials and prominent, by the way, not by this person, I'm not blaming this person, many public health officials and prominent scientists dismissed the ideas, conspiracy theory.

I wonder why they did that. I wonder if there's an email paper trail that's already been established. There is. Insisting that a virus had emerged from animals in a seafood market in Wuhan, China. And when a nonprofit called EcoHealth Alliance lost a great grant because it was planning to conduct risky research into bat viruses with the Wuhan Institute of Virology research that if conducted with lack safety standards could have resulted in a dangerous pathogen leaking out into the world no fewer than 77 Nobel laureates and 31 scientific societies lined up to defend the organization. Yeah they defend themselves. I mean it's appeal to authority and they fucked us and you

guys were a part of it by the way that newspaper was a big part of it. Big part of calling the lab leak theory racist which was really kooky. It's strange that everything is concretized on the internet for the rest of time. Big part of calling the lab leak theory racist, which was really kooky. It's strange that everything is concretized on the internet for the rest of time. Yeah. I mean, people can go back and try and like retrograde, remove stuff that happened, but there's always internet archive is fantastic for this. Yeah, for the most part, you could find it inspired. So how, how is it that so many U-turns,

regardless of what it is, regardless of which side it is, the sort of permanent state of amnesia that everybody's in, there was this WhatsApp message. You ever have one of those WhatsApp messages where it says forwarded many times at the top, and you're like, oh, this is going to be good? Right. And it's just an advert.

It's just a banner. Forwarded many times. And it was a single squaddy, a guy in fatigues walking down the street in London, and a screenshot, I think of a text saying that someone had said that the army was going to be deployed on the streets of London to keep everybody in the house through martial law, that this was how intense that the lockdowns were going to get.

And it was gonna happen on this particular day. It goes crazy on Facebook, crazy on WhatsApp. Never happened. And like all of the people that shared that, that were adamant, that created all of these stories and theories around it, like no one ever actually went to go and call those people out about what it was that they'd pushed. All of the people that were adamant, global health passports, the vaccine passport,

that's gonna come, that's gonna happen. And you know, I mean, the unfalsifiable version of it is because we knew that it was gonna happen, they weren't able to do it. So actually we were the righteous resistance in doing the thing. And the same with whether it's lab leak theory, whether it's Joe Biden's mental decline,

no matter what it is, you can put this position out there, it's fucking fortified on the internet for the rest of time. And after long enough, you're like, I don't remember that. You're like fucking the most gaslighty partner that you've ever been with. I'm like, are you sure? Yeah, I don't think I did say that.

I do this like fucking fugazi switcheroo, lexical Brazilian jujitsu. And I don't have to atone for my previous sins anymore. Well, I think in this case, you have an individual journalist who wrote this story. I do not know the history of this individual journalist, but what they said is accurate and important. So it's good that the New York Times has this

come to Jesus moment where they lay out, hey, the conspiracy theories were all true. That's what the title should be. The conspiracy theories were all true. Yeah, the shot wasn't effective. Yeah, there were therapeutics that were available that were dismissed and that bad studies were created in order to make sure that people weren't taking these drugs because we needed the emergency use authorization. And the only way you can get that is if you have no treatment.

So you had to rely on one thing and that one thing was the vaccine and they all participated in it. How much do you think New York Times with articles like that, Bezos coming out recently and saying that there's this sort of balance thing that he's got going on at the Washington Post, Zuckerberg's recent sort of pivot

with regards to fact checking on meta platforms. How many of those do you think would have happened if there hadn't been a Trump victory in November? How much of this is blowing with the wind, do you think? Most of it's blowing with the wind. It's the society, society's decided we're done. This was Trump getting elected, this was Elon buying Twitter. This was, and

this is the blowback that you're seeing, these organized protests and vandalism on Tesla dealerships and keying people. They're encouraging people. There's so many videos of people just smashing Teslas, carving swastikas into the side of Teslas. Because sentry mode, these cars all have sentry mode. So you could leave your Tesla parked and there's HD video of everything that's happening all around. And it uploads it so you can just see who did what.

Yeah, yeah, you can watch it. That's why all these videos are out. All these videos are out, as people extracted them from their cars. The video isn't published by the rioters, the video is published by the victims. Exactly. Fuck.

Yeah, and there's tons of people that have been arrested for this now. Tons of people. I don't know what. I mean, I guess it's a way of trying to protest against some person that you don't like. Yeah, but it's funded. That's what's crazy. And it's all because what Elon is doing with USAID

and what he's doing with Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency is finding a lot of inefficiency, waste, and fraud. Most of it he believes is waste, some of it is fraud. And it's a lot of, there's a lot of money that's going in directions it shouldn't be going, and then there's stuff that's legal that probably shouldn't be legal, like non-government organizations

doing the bidding of the government because they're funded by the government. There's certain things the government is not allowed to do, but a non-government organization, the NGO, can do. What's an example of that? Well, regime change. A lot of what this money is going to, it goes to foreign countries where we have an interest in having the people that are running that country on our side. Or we don't like them and we want to fund the rebels. And so you can fund the people, you can fund them through all sorts of organizations where you hide and mask the money and you move it around and you have essentially blank checks. And you can just

funnel billions of dollars all over the world with no accounting. Mike Benz is like the most prophetic person of all time. Oh my God. I mean, he talked about it on this podcast before Doge and before USAID, and everyone is like, oh, conspiracy theorists and this and that, and this guy, so he used to work for the State Department.

What the fuck does he know? Apparently he knows everything. He knows all of it, and he can spit it out His recall is incredible and you know that guy's got to be fucking terrified because he's out there exposing He's he's essentially the guy who led Elon to the coffin where the vampire sleeps Like this is where it is It must be an odd situation to be in because most of of the time, the level of scrutiny that you're under and the level of security threat that's likely is kind of, it goes in line with status, fame,

and that also goes in line with maybe some resources too. So as people get more likely to be a target, they're also more able to perhaps be able to protect themselves with living in a nicer house, gated community. Like Elon. Yeah, having security and stuff like that. But this is one of those weird situations where your knowledge, your particular insight makes you so uniquely vulnerable or such a such a heavy target, but it hasn't come with the concordant increase in status and resources that would

allow you to be able to actually protect yourself. And this is, I guess, the crisis of a whistleblower. Yes. Yes. Whistleblower and investigative journalists. Yeah. I mean, this is why Julian Assange spent so much time in jail. I was just about to bring up Ross Ulbricht.

Yes. Have you, you guys must have tried to reach out to him? Yeah, we reached out, but he doesn't really want to talk to anybody right now Which is totally understandable He's got an open invitation if he ever just says okay. I'd like to talk Whenever yeah, I'd love to sit down and talk to him you know, I'd love to find the real story because the the narrative and You know the documentary did docudrama that was made

about the Silk Road and what he did, you know, I'd like to know how much of that is bullshit. Because I think a lot of it probably was. You know, I think they were trying to set him up, for sure. And I think there's probably some things that he was accused of that aren't accurate. You know, I'd like to know. Isn't it funny that we always think about conspiracy,

conspiracy theories, all of this stuff is always being in the past. And that when something is unfolding right now, I wonder how much stuff is being ignored by the media but will be studied by historians. I wonder, I wonder what that would be. That's one of my friend's favorite questions to ask. What is being ignored by the media but will be studied by historians? I certainly think that would be. That's one of my friend's favorite questions to ask. What is being ignored by the media

but will be studied by historians? I certainly think that smartphone use will be one of those. You know, there was that five deathbed regrets of the dying. I wish I'd kept in touch with my friends. I wish I hadn't worked so much. I wish I'd allowed myself to be happy. I wish I'd lived the life I wanted

and not the life that other people had for me, blah, blah. Yeah. I would bet everything that I'm worth that within the next couple of decades. I wish I'd spent less time on my phone Yeah, would be one of those no doubt one hundred percent Well, your your time is so valuable and how do you have five extra hours a day? Well, look at your screen time. It'll save five hours We were talking about this before we got started that you have the same number of hours that somebody did a hundred years ago. Mm-hmm. But the average amount of time that Americans spend on screens is eight hours at the

moment. The average time that they eat eight on screen to all screens the average time they spend asleep is 6.5. So people are sleeping for one and a half hours less than they spend their time on their phone. And what are you getting out of it? Well, nothing tangible. It's so hard. It's so hard. It's so addicting.

It's designed to be addicting. I mean, you've had Tristan Harris on here. The way the variable schedule reward that tempts you, that keeps you there, you don't know what's going to happen. This is so interesting. I had the guy who wrote, Stuart Russell, he wrote the original AI textbook. It's translated into 70 languages around the world.

He taught me this really interesting thing about how the algorithms work. So we know the job of the algorithm is to predict what you want to click on. So what it wants to do is get better at working out what Joe likes on his YouTube feed or on his Instagram feed or whatever. But there's actually two ways

that it can become more accurate at being able to predict what you're going to click on. The first one is to be better at providing you with things that you'll select. The second one is nudging your preferences so that you are more easy to predict. Because if you just give something the optimizing function of cause Joe to click on a thing

and stick about with like click through and watch time, if you get it to do that it'll just find any route. It's not bounded by and you must make sure that it's his existing preferences, you can't change his preferences, but this is one of the reasons I think why polarization has increased. Not just that edge cases get used, it pushes people further apart, they get put off into their silos, echo chambers, recursive stuff, blah, blah, blah. I think a big part of it is just the algorithms find it easier to be able to predict you, which gives them an incentive. Now, it's not like a conscious incentive, but it gives you this incentive to be pushed out to the sides. And

there's this worry about, I learned about this idea called knowingness. So polarization, everyone thinks it's a big deal. And I think it is, it's a big problem idea called knowingness. So polarization, everyone thinks it's a big deal and I think it is, it's a big problem. But knowingness is like an uncurious intellectual insulation so people believe that they know the answer to the question before the question has even been asked. I know what the outcome is, I know what the answer is before you've even asked me the question.

And what's interesting about this epidemic of knowingness we have at the moment is if the problem is poor information, you can fix it typically with better information. I will give you a better quality of information, but if the problem is knowingness, you are insulated from ever updating your beliefs because no amount of existing new information

is going to actually help you. There's this really cool quote that said, most people think that they are thinking when all they are doing is rearranging their prejudices. And I think it explains why the culture was so boring. Culture war is largely super boring because both sides act as if the factor already settled whilst not agreeing on the facts. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So how is it that we've got to the stage where people's, their prejudices just get

moved around until they can come up with the outcome that they already wanted before you even ask the question about the thing that you're talking about? That's the situation we end up with. And I think it explains why, I think it why the the culture was feels so samey and Nothing really ever seems to move like it's not moved forward. It goes. It's such a snail's pace this the news is operating at light speed and the way that we move forward with our Conceptual understanding of the world is moving forward at snail's pace. Well, how are these two things happening together? Well, it's technological advance, right? Technological advance is so much greater

and faster than biological advance. This is the scariest thing that leads us down the road to AI, is that as we are so limited in our biological ability to evolve, biological evolution takes so long Biological evolution takes so long, cultural evolution takes so long, whereas technological evolution is almost instantaneous. And we are being overrun by this thing that's captivated our attention. I was talking about this the other day.

I was like, imagine if there was a drug that made you stare at your hand for six hours a day. He'd be like, keep me the fuck away from that drug, but that's what your phone's doing Mostly you're getting nothing occasionally you get a funny meme You know if I looked at the amount of time that I spent online On a given day and how much of it is really fascinating to me well every now And then you get a story like that story about the whole universe might be inside of a black hole And then I'm on a rabbit hole.

The pyramids, oh there's this interesting insight about that. There's a few things you'll get, but I kind of feel like you will get those if you're offline just by other people being online. They'll send it to you. Like you're almost better off. You don't need to be the one doing the first pass scouring. Exactly. Your resources are better utilized by not doing that.

Did you see that? It was a guy who removed people's phones from their hands. It was a photographer who went around, I think it was maybe New York City, and he took photos of people and then CGI'd the phones out. You know, you're talking about, imagine if there was this thing and it made you stare at your hand. He actually did it. So it shows just how absurd it is. You know, you've got an entire train carriage on the subway on the underground. And everyone's staring at their hand.

And it's just people staring down at their hands. Like this. And it needs that to sort of throw the absurdity into it. But then on the flip side, if you don't live with your parents, you're in a different city, you work a job that you're not that enamored by, maybe your health's good, maybe it's not so good,

you're a little bit worried about stuff, you're kind of bored a lot of the time, you to be sedated. Yeah. Oh, there we go. Oh, wow All those people just sitting there staring. Oh, that's so crazy. Go back. Jamie. Go back up to that one of the kid Wow 2015 in 2012 I Started trying to take pictures of people in public looking at their phones and it wasn't that common then. So it wasn't that...

Well, that's like when social media kicked off. In the beginning, no one was on it. You'd see it. It's like most people weren't even on Twitter. They're like, why would I be on that? And people were using it to promote things and then they started using it to elevate their profile and then people became influencers. And once people became influencers and once once people, like a regular person,

get a couple of million followers, then all of a sudden you get sponsors, and that's your job now? Notoriety, respect. Yeah, and fame. I remember when I was living in LA, it was right around the time that a lot of these, God, what was it back then?

What was the thing that was like, it wasn't TikTok. Vine. Vine? Yes. Yeah, it was Vine. Vine influencers were the first. And they were famous. So they'd go to restaurants and be like, that's blah, blah, blah.

Like who's that? Like, oh, he's got 35 million Vine subscribers. Like what? It was bizarre because you'd seen just regular people that would do antics or cause scenes or do something to get attention. And they developed large followings. Isn't it the number one job that primary school kids want

is to be a YouTuber or an influencer? Well, they all watch them. They all watch people eat food and open up toys. And it's like Very weird. It's very weird stuff because no one would have ever predicted that that would be something would captivate people's attention on a television Right. There was no unboxing shows on television, but yet unboxing shows on the internet are huge Like people get sucked into the most mundane things. I'm an opening up package. Oh, look at this. Here's the new phone Yeah, I unboxing in some I actually think is quite satisfying.

I quite like watching the people that have got, here's the new MacBook M4 thing and it's shot all nice. And MKBHD. Yeah, he does a great job. Watching him do his stuff is really great. But he also does a comprehensive analysis of the tech. It's not just, here's me playing with a new MacBook. No, he's doing a review of state of the art.

You know, like where is technology currently and what's the best version? I think when it comes to desiring a life, looking at, okay, what is it that I want, you need to be very, very careful about what the process is in order to get the outcome that you want. Because if you want the outcome, but you're not prepared to live the life needed to get it,

you're just asking for disappointment. Yeah, well said. My friend talks about Call of Duty versus war. You think about this is what going on holiday to a place is and this is what having to live there is like. You can go to somewhere and go, hey, it was lovely for a week. We were in the Congo.

Yeah, it was so nice. But you go, what's it like, you can go to someone and go, it was lovely for a week. We were in the Congo. Yeah, it was so nice. But you go, what's it like if you can't leave? It's literally the difference between being camping, going camping or being homeless. Right? One is an imposition and the other one is a choice. And I think that more young kids need to realize what the reality of being an influencer is like. It's not just going to the Seychelles

and uploading a selfie or getting, I don't know what they do, like Play-Doh, fucking jelly, new video games. That's not what it's like. Look at the Twitch streamers. Look at most of the Twitch streamers. They have got, they are like the fucking grunts of the content creation.

They are factories of content, eight hours a day, five days a week, just fucking stream of consciousness. Someone puts something in the chat and you go, oh, well, let's watch this thing, let's watch that thing. It's like, it's not, if you do not want the life that you need to get in order to get the outcome that you're looking for, you need to be very, very careful about, because the reality is war.

It's not Call of Duty. It's the same thing with being in a band. It it's like I love the idea of traveling the world and playing to these big crowds and doing all the rest of it's like okay you're gonna have to live in a van with four other sweaty dudes for like half a decade first if you're lucky at the bed and that's if you've managed to break through yeah you're gonna have to spend so long a decade learning to play guitar you're gonna have to write songs that never see the day of light you're gonna have to spend so long, a decade learning to play guitar. You're gonna have to write songs that never see the day of light.

You're gonna have to do all of this stuff. And you have no idea if it's gonna work. There's this, I think about the gap from where people are in a place that they don't want to be until they get to a place that they do. And I think of it like a lonely chapter. So everybody that has got to a place that they do. And I think of it like a lonely chapter. So everybody that has got from a place where they don't want to be to one where they are,

there's a point where they're so different that they can't resonate with their old set of friends. Right. But they're not yet sufficiently developed that they've created their new set of friends. And there's this temptation to go back to the old patterns, the old ways of thinking. And this, I did this live show in London last year,

my first big headline show at the Eventim Apollo in London. It was pretty cool. And this idea, I think, was one that really resonated with a lot of people because everybody's trying to grow and there is an incentive for you to stay in the same place because not that many people grow most people don't change they make little changes you know they'll cut their hair or they'll lose five pounds or you know they'll switch from one company to another but how many people do you know

that have lost 50 pounds or moved to a different country or have genuinely changed the way that they see the world it's pretty rare it's not that common and we are such mimetic creatures. We're so shaped by the people around us that we can't help but be tempted. You know you're gonna have to do something if you want to go from where you are to where you want to be you're gonna have to do something that makes you more different more weird more easy to be mocked especially if you come from a country like the UK where I'm from, being different's not particularly celebrated in that way.

It's the sort of thing that's quite easily mocked. There's a big culture of piss taking. And if you start, what are you talking to people on the internet for? It's fucking weird. Like that's stupid, that's not gonna work. Why are you gonna do that? So if you don't have that level of enthusiasm,

there is no support around you to tell you that the thing that you're trying to do, the taking up the martial art, why are you training this Tae Kwon Do bullshit like fucking six nights a week? Why are you coaching all of these moms and all of these like old guys and how to do Tai Chi or whatever?

Why are you doing that? Well, because maybe I'm sort of pulled to it and there is this temptation to go back to your old ways of thinking. Go back to the road that you already know how it's going to end. And I get the sense that this is not a bug, it is a feature.

It's a part of moving from a place that you do not want to be to one that you do. And for the most part, you actually need to live through this lonely chapter. And you look at it and you go, well, the fucking Rocky montage was 3.5 minutes. For me, it's been five years. Where's the championship ring? You know what I mean?

I haven't won the fight, where's Apollo Creed? None of this stuff's happened. The thing that I wish more stories talked about, if you watch it in the movies, yeah, sure, there's ups and downs in the journey of the athlete that's going to change his life around and get the girl, but his self-belief never wavers, right? He makes the decision and it's one straight shot, typically, and there'll be some challenges but he'll get that. His self-belief never wavers. I don't think that that's what the experience of doing personal

growth is like at all. In my experience it's you're just swimming in uncertainty and and fear and a lack of belief that it's even gonna happen. You don't even have the promise of glory on the other side of it. I don't even know if this is going to be worth it and I'm fucking doing Sam Harris's waking up meditation app and I'm journaling on a morning I'm going to the gym. Why am I eating meat and and fruit does this even work like, you know You're doing all of this stuff trying scrambling like a guy in a fucking well trying to find a handhold And if you don't have a good community people that are also doing that you're on your own

Yeah, yeah, and this is most people I think most people's experience because if most people don't change You are going to be an outlier if you're somebody who does change. I think about personal growth kind of like a rocket ship taking off. And as you take off, you've got a particular velocity that you're moving at. And what you want is to find other people moving at the same velocity as you.

But the quicker that you move, the fewer people are going to be like you, right? So some people will be ahead of you, and you're in this lonely chapter, and fewer people are going to be like you. So some people will be ahead of you, and you're in this lonely chapter, and then you catch up to them, and then, oh no. And this isn't some comment on people that work on themselves, are morally better

or worse than anybody else, but it's just a stark fact about you talk to people and you resonate with people that are at the same level of life as you are, and that kind of makes sense. You have things to discuss and you resonate with people that are at the same level of life as you are. And that kind of makes sense. You have things to discuss. You're encountering the same sorts of challenges, whether it's in terms of your self-worth,

or your wealth, or your relationship status, all of these things, birds of a feather, right? And one of the, I guess, difficult realizations of people who want to change their life is that if you do it well, you might have to go through a period where you let go of all of your friends. But the really bad realization is if you do it really well, you might have to do that multiple times throughout your life.

You find a group of people, finally I've landed after all that period where I was, I was on my own and I didn't really understand. Oh, fuck, I'm still going. I've over and I now need, you mean I got to do it again? I've got to do it again. I just thought that I'd found my group and I've got to do it again. This lonely chapter thing is a it's a big deal and I think that it explains why so few people make big changes because the temptation is always going to be to just go back to what's normal, go back to what I know. And it's why, you know, America for all that it's a horrible, cis, hetero, patriarchal superstructure that's misogynistically keeping everybody down. It's an enthusiastic and sort of excitable country. And you guys have kind of got permanent first line cocaine energy about everything.

And for me, it seems to be a real enthusing environment. It encourages me to do things, helps me to take risks. Either that or I get kicked in the head a lot. And I just love it. I love the fact that it makes me feel confident in doing difficult things. And yeah, I wish that more people had that community around them. I think largely Reddit is just a website filled with people who couldn't find other people to talk about their niche in

their hometown. Like this particular Warhammer 40k version or whatever but yeah it's it's difficult and when you get to the stage where you're faced with some personal growth decision, you're always going to have to make this value exchange of, do I want to move forward on my own or do I want to go back with my friends? It's a good point, man. Chris, always great to talk to you, brother. Really appreciate your insight. You're a very brilliant guy and you're always, you're fun. Fun to talk to. I appreciate you too, man

Thanks for having the courage to put all your thoughts out there and I love what you do I love your show and You're awesome, man. Yeah, you're awesome, too Did I in here every time that you bring me on every time that we get to speak? I really appreciate it. So thank you my pleasure. All, bye everybody.