The Joe Rogan Experience - #2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Dr. Zahi Hawass is an archaeologist, Egyptologist, lecturer, and former Egyptian Minister of Antiquities. See him live during his Grand Lecture Tour across North America as he presents the latest groundbreaking discoveries made in Egypt. To check all 33 dates and locations and to register, visit www.ZahiLectures.com Get anything delivered on Uber Eats. www.ubereats.com Go to ExpressVPN.com/ROGAN to get 4 months free! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. You can talk as long as you want. No, it's up to you to decide. It's up to you. I'll talk to you forever. I have so many questions. I'm very excited to meet you.

Same. I've seen you in documentaries for decades. So many documentaries. I've watched so many things about Egypt I'm completely fascinated. You know I would tell you something Do you know this guy used to do to do already show late evening art Bell? Best can I best I need to say this on air. I need to say this story on air, okay now are we in there now? Yeah, we're on air

art bill story on air. Now, are we on air now? Art Bill used everything to attack me. Hit you? Yes. How the Egyptians can move stones. That's not true. The Egyptians cannot do that. Then I was teaching at UCLA and he called me for an interview. I said, no, I'm not going to give you an interview until you come to visit me in Egypt. And he said, okay. He came with his wife. I took him to a quarry that we are cutting stones to construct the things. Then I brought a stone, eight tons weight, and I brought a man on the age of 70, and I told this man, cut this stone. All the men stood above the stone.

You know, stones has weak parts like us. With a pencil, he draw a line from the beginning to the end. In the middle, he put a piece of iron, pom, pom, he cut it for twice. As it art, the Egyptian doesn't use muscles. They use their brain because the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation. If you go today, if I take you today with me, and you know I always tell people this, I give lectures maybe three, four times a week for American groups, and I tell them the following. If you stood in front of the Great Pyramid and you look at it, you will never believe that this pyramid built

by human being. Why? Because you don't know. And number two, if you try to do it today, you will never be able to do it. Are you going to hire today 10 southern workmen to work for 10, for 28 years for nothing? That was the national project of the whole nation. I think Art Bell's real concern was how would someone possibly move those stones 4,500 years ago. Okay. A lot of questions, right? Yes, but can I answer you now? Yes, please. Listen, two examples I will tell you. The first example happened a few years ago. I discovered a tomb in a site called Abbasir. In the top of the tomb there was a huge granite sarcophagus, 20 tons weight. Okay? If you come to Egypt, have you been to Egypt? No, I haven't.

You have to. If you talk about Egypt- I know I have to. You have to come. I know. But you have to tell me before you come. I'll come. I will tell you we found an intact two. And the minister said, wait, I will bring the reporter the press and we'll do it live. I said, okay. But I hate to do anything live. Then I came to the site, I brought my workmen, 10 workmen only moved the 20 tons only by wooden slinges. We found underneath another sarcophagus 10 tons weight of granite. We took the third one and we found underneath another, a third one, 5 tons weight. We took the five tons out, and we

found underneath a coffin with Zamami. And I told the workmen, put everything back. And I called the minister, I said, you can bring the press, we'll open it live. I never told him that I cheated him. But only in a site that I'm excavating right now. We do discover 60 feet under the ground. We discover sealed sarcophagus. The lid is about 10 tons weight. To work, man, only open the lid for me. We have a machine called the devil. I don't know why they call it the devil. Devil. Devil. Why? I don't know. I asked asked them they said our grandfathers called it like that then they put this is an ancient machine it is an ancient machine Jamie could probably pull it up then they they they put this machine under under the lid and they

come do you like this and there is a little bit when the lid that it is laced they put a piece of wood another piece of wood and until there is a half a feet and they can put right my face inside with the circle with a flashlight to see what's inside the coffin that's what we because the people today are the descendants of the ancient Egyptian. There is a village located north of Luxor, and this village, all the people work in antiquities, and they know, if you look at their faces, exactly like the ancient Egyptian people, and all the people work it with me. I'm excavating right now in Giza. I'm going to tell you good news inside the great pyramid that we found, and also in Saqqara and Luxor. And this is why in my lecture tour now I'm making major

important announcements that will talk about it with you today. Pete Okay. What did you find? Now, you know, can I call you Joe? Please do. And you call me Zaheel. Okay. Now, you know, I do receive fan emails. You've received emails? Fan. Fan emails. About 50 a week. Some of them bad ones. Some people think that I discovered evidence to prove that pyramids built by aliens or lost civilization and I hide them. I never answer these questions, but to you I tell you how do I, how can I hide anything? I'm not working alone. I'm working with people. You cannot hide anything, because people will see you.

And I will tell you a joke. It happened, but it's a joke. A reporter came to see me from California to my office. And my office was located next to the Great Pyramid of Khufu. to my office, and my office was located next to the Great Pyramid of Kufu. And he said to me, people say at 12 noon, you leave your office and you go to the bathroom, and you open a tunnel from your bathroom. It's true, really, it's what he said. And you go from the tunnel to the Great Pyramid, and you hide things, and you come back.

I said, okay, what do you need from me now? He said, I want to see your bathroom. It's really happened. He went to my bathroom. Did he check all the panels? And he came back and have you seen any tunnels in my bathroom? He said, no. I said, what are you going to do now? He said, I will publish your bathroom in the internet and Therefore if you want to see my bathroom Right w w w that how us bathroom that come is that much of an issue that people really believe it Make a website. They do they do believe in this and and some of them attack me badly Well, that's part of the problem right is that The Egyptian pyramids and just Egypt in general is so spectacular. The accomplishments of the ancient Egyptians were so monumental and so above anything that

anybody had ever achieved. And since, you know, what they've done thousands and thousands of years ago still to this day puzzles people when they try to figure out how it was built. I will tell you. You will tell me how it was built. I will tell you. You will tell me how it was built? Of course. Okay. I...

How do you know? How do you know? How do you know? I found all the evidence of building the pyramid. We published a book, 1,000 pages. This book is the Bible of the pyramids of Giza Plateau. Okay. Tell me how they did it. Now, what we found out,

the major problem that people think about pyramids, because most of the information that's written on pyramids are wrong. Most of it? Most of it. In archaeology books? In archaeology books. Really? Except me and Mark Leiener. You guys are the only ones that have it right? Because I have been working in Giza for the last 50, 70 years of my life. I excavated every piece of sand. Okay, what do the archaeologists have wrong in these archaeologists books? For example, number one They say that the workmen who built the pyramids worked only four months a year. When the flood covered the whole country, the king hired the workmen

to work in his pyramid. This is wrong, and I will tell you what's correct. Number two, that the stones used in building the great pyramid came from Torah. And Torah is 25 miles to the east from Giza. And number three, that Kufu ruled for 23 years. And number four, that the stones of the Great Pyramid are 2,300,000 blocks. How many blocks are there? Now, let us talk about number one, the workmen. I found the tombs of the pyramid builders only one mile south of the Sphinx. A major important discovery that can tell everyone, number one, that pyramids built by Egyptians because of the names that we found inside

the cemetery. And they were not slaves. Is that your phone? I have to, I have to. Yeah, kill that thing. Kill it. You're right. I always, because I do lots of interviews, I always close it. Oh, I get it. Except today. No worries. Nobody knows how to shut these things off anymore.

Then now, this discovery... Okay, so explain. So you found the pyramids, excuse me, you found the workers' pyramids' graves a mile away. Away, one mile south of the pyramids. And by their names? Then I found names of the work of them I found the lower symmetry the lower symmetry were for the burial of the workman who moved the

stones and the upper symmetry was for the technicians right and how do you know this I will tell you okay now the tombs down there are very primitive tombs built from mud bricks, cost nothing. Underneath is a skeleton. And if a skeleton is for a man, he's holding a beer jar. He wants to drink beer in the afterlife. If the skeleton is for a woman, she has perfume vessels. She wants to have perfume in the afterlife. Inside the upper cemetery, I found 21 titles in hieroglyphic. For example, the overseer in hieroglyphic of

the side of the pyramid. Oh, it says that the overseer of the side of the pyramid? Yes, Emira Gess Mer in hieroglyphic. The overseer of the west side of the pyramid a mirror guess men in hieroglyphic the overseer of the west side of the pyramid Draftsmen craftsmen the one who stand in front of the harbour all these titles had to do with building the pyramid Inside the tombs we found The tools that the Egyptian used to cut the stones what tools do you write and a flint tools? Because in the whole kingdom there was no iron are these photos of these tools available online Can we look at them? Yeah, I can send it to you

No in my book Geyser and the pyramid I don't know if it's a line sure it's online line Jamie will find it. So these students these tools were flint and durite. What is durite? D-i-o-r-i-t-e. Durite is more sharp stone than iron and it came from Aquarius south of Aswan So you feel like they use this very hard stone to cut into the ground? To cut the stone. And I will come back to this, cutting the stones. But let me continue about the workmen. To the east of the tombs, we found an area for sorting salted fish.

We found an area for the bakery making bread. We found the workmen barracks for the workmen who moved the stones to live. We found a whole city for the technicians, for the artisans. And we discovered thousands of animal bones because people always say that the workmen who built the pyramid, they ate only garlic and bread and drink beer, and I thought if they do that, they will die. But now we discovered that they slaughter 11 cows and 33 goats every day, and this can feed 10,000 workmen a day. Then we believe now, and I published, that the workmen who built the pyramids were 10,000 workmen, and they worked every day,

and they took one day off every 10 days. Joe, I want to tell you, the pyramid was a national project. The three millions who lived in Egypt had to build the pyramid for the king to be a god, and therefore, the households in the south and the north of Egypt participated in building the pyramid by sending workforce and food to help the king. Now we come to the second point, the stones. We discovered that all the stones of the three pyramids at Giza, the stones came from quarries in the site itself. Even the King's chamber? No, except the granite in the King's chamber. And where'd that come from? From Aswan. And that's 500 miles away, right? Yes, by the flood. The flood was- And those were 50 to 80 tons? It doesn't matter. It doesn't? Yes.

If I was working there, it wouldn't matter. No, because I showed to you, I would if I was working there would matter. No, I showed to you I showed to not the 50 tons. It's 20 tons. Now, what we found out first how the Egyptian built the pyramid, they make on the ground, a square base. Okay. Okay. And after that, they cut in the solid rock in the four sides You know I'm going to tell you one thing. Okay, if you tell me that pyramids built by Giants, okay I'm said, okay come to the excavation all the skeleton that you discover are five to six feet High nothing about saying they were built by giants. Some people say that okay the second I've heard aliens Okay, the second aliens if Joe if aliens build the pyramids. Mm-hmm

Do they leave any do they shit sometimes? Aren't you going to shit maybe aliens don't shit even in shit are they going to leave something on the ground on the contrary I give you the evidence every evidence that they will tell you today actual work of actual workers and what's happening now we come about building the pyramid mm-hmm all the stones I told you came from Giza plateau. We found out what happened first they cut in the solid rock Okay, and they made the base of the pyramid to be 28 feet on the solid rock No stones

Do you get this? Yes, we have in Egypt 120 pyramids we don't have only Kufu pyramid that everyone is talking about. You have 120 pyramids. This is one of them. But the reason that this pyramid is so accurate and strong because Giza Plateau is the only site in Egypt of the pyramids. It's a part of the Mokattam formation. It has three levels. Level one and two are very many stones. But level three is the top quality of the stones. Then the Egyptians used this stone to build the pyramid. Then after they make the base of the pyramid to be 20 feet eight of stone, we found out 1000 feet away, we found out the quarry location. All the so they only had to bring the stones 1000 feet.

Only only the stones that stones that came from outside are the casing stones. And I will talk about this matter later. That came from Torah and a granite came from us one and the casing stones with the outside smooth surface exactly came from Torah. Okay granite came from us one and the casing stones with the outside smooth surface Exactly, it came from Torah. Okay, then now when we discovered the quarry location and the base of the pyramid We thought how they they Established the ramp You know that am right to move to move the stones, right? We found out if the Egyptian will make the ramp from the query

to the base it will never happen because when you raise the base you need to extend the ramp we found out listen to this carefully that the only way to have a pyramid ramp is to come to the south west corner of the main pyramid. They built the ramp like this. And I excavated, and these are photos in my book Giza and the Pyramids. I excavated from here to here. When the Egyptians construct a ramp, when they finish building the pyramid, they demolish the ramp. They cannot demolish all of it. They have, they demolish the ramp. They cannot demolish all of it. They have to leave something in the ground.

Okay. Do you get this? Yes. I excavated from here to here. I found in situ remains of the ramp. Are there photos of this? Of course, in my book. Okay, let's find the photos of the equipment first. Can't

find anything? It's in my book. What did you find? Nothing. Nothing? How is that not online? That doesn't make any sense. It's in my book, Giza and the pyramids. Maybe look up from the book. No, Joe, these are the tombs of the pyramid builders right there. This is the excavation This episode is brought to you by the farmers dog dogs take a lot of care and responsibility But every minute is worth it. They add so much to our lives I would do anything for my dog and I'm sure you would too You probably only want the best for your pets but figuring out what that is could be a real headache There's a lot of misinformation out there, especially around dog food.

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Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more. Offer applicable for new customers only. And this all what I discovered. This is my discovery of everything. Every piece of sand here tells us about the builder of the pyramid. But let me continue this. I will come to you. The now let us let us if you go to my book, you'll find out that you I found here

that you write and the Flint tools. Listen, the now I will come the stones for building the pyramid came from the plateau. The casing came from Torah. Now we come to how how many years Kufr ruled. So there is one big discovery happened a few years ago. Are these the tools? No, no. These are tools for artists. The tools in our book, which is big, do you write tools? And big flint tools. Big ones. And why is this not online? Who never put them in line? It's in

my book. Right, but I mean wouldn't that be everywhere? I mean that's such a huge archaeological discovery. It's not. It's because it's everywhere. It's not only in the Willkerman only. It's in every site. You have these tools in many sites. Right, but why aren't these tools online? That's all I'm asking. I ask the people online, but they are in, remains in my book. Are they in a museum somewhere? There is some in the Cairo Museum, yes. So there should be a photograph of them in the museum. Okay.

What would Jamie look for? But I don't know, I'm just like asking him. Now I want to come to a third- Museum would have them? Cairo Museum. Cairo Museum would have those tools? Yes. Okay.

Now, a few years ago, a major discovery happened for the first time. It is the first time that we have written evidence about building the pyramid of Khufu. When did this happen? Three years ago. Really? It's called the Wadi Al-Jarf Papyri. Oh. Do you want to know what's in this papyri? I do.

This papyri was found in Sinai, in a port belongs to Khufu. And inside this port, there was caves. And inside the caves found remains of boat and this big papyri. It's large, huge. That's it, exactly. And what does this say?

Now. First of all, how old is that? 4600 years ago. Isn't that amazing? And listen. You can find writing in this. So papyrus was made with animal skin, correct? No, papyrus was of papyrus from the papyri. Right. What is, what is? The papyri is just like leaves. Okay. Now, but listen to the workman, his name is Merer, M-E-R-E-R. Okay? Merer is saying, I

am sahaj, in hieroglyphic, means inspector, under me working 40 workmans. I was hired by Kofu to work in his pyramid. This is in hieroglyphic And He said my big my my immediate boss. His name is Diddy Like P Diddy Diddy. Yes now 20 years ago in my excavation waste of the Great Pyramid Of Kufu, I discovered 20 tombs. Are these the tools? No, no, no, this is not the tools. No, no. The tools are really sharp type of big tools. We found some of them. What is that Jamie's looking at what are these

these this could be this the tombs in the left is like them though in the left here but those tools no no no no more no doubt no where you know here there is two there is more to the left to the left to the left to the left no again what this two tools you mean up down we talk that second one after this one that's it up that's it and this one oh those those yeah but don't those just look exactly like the other photograph we just had those up there that looks like the heads of this was a smalls and talking about big ones so that's this are tools for for making statues and things like but not cutting

the stones I see so these are the same kind of tools though with the same kind of materials but let me talk about the papyri. Because this many people doesn't know about this. Then Merer said, my boss's name is Didi. Twenty years ago, I excavated west of the Great Pyramid of Kufu. I found 20 tombs, beautiful ones. I published all of them, except one small tomb I said is not important. Three years ago, I found this is the tomb of Didi, the person that he was the boss of Mirir. And I published this tomb. You can find this tomb online now. It's called Didi's Tomb by Zahi Hawais, west of the Great Pyramid of Kufu. Now, listen, Joe, what Miller said, I took my workman, this is in hieroglyphic, we went to Torah to cut the white fine limestone.

This sentence means that the pyramid was finished and Miller went to bring the stones for the casing and he said, I'm not alone. There is many other gangs are cutting the stones. And Torah is in North and South. And he said, I divided my gangs to three gangs, one gang to cut the stones, and one gang is smoothing the stones and it's moving the stones With the right tools to face the stones for the casing and after that he said and the third group Moving the stones in wooden slidges To us is all in the papyri in the papyri to a cargo boat

What happened in the Old Kingdom? We have evidence that the river Nile the Egyptian cut to the west of this river Nile another Nile to be near the pyramid from this Nile. they cut a canal. At the end of the canal, there is a harbor in front of every pyramid. I discovered in my excavation in front of Kufu pyramid, there is a village called Nazlet Samman. In this village, the people were building houses. Underneath the houses, we found basalt walls. I stopped the construction of the houses and I excavated the whole area. I found this is the harbor of Kufu, and I published this in an article. And I excavated in front of the Sphinx temple, and I found the harbor of Kifrin.

And it's published. Now, the reason for the canal and the harbor, to bring non-local stones, granite from Aswan, alabaster from Middle Egypt, durite from Nubia, basalt from Fayyum, white limestone from Torah. The Egyptians had everything. So they essentially cut a second canal. They cut a canal just so they can move the stones to where they wanted them. And they discovered all of this.

And this is published. If you write Zaya Haw West. And so this was all the casing stones. Exactly. Right. Is it possible that the casing stones were put on later? No, after you finished building the pyramid. There is two important things when they finished building the pyramid. I discovered in a site called Abu Sir, I discovered two scenes. One scene where Kaman dragging a capstone. Above the capstone is a hieroglyphic word called Ja'em. So where is this? Where is this? This is in hieroglyphs? The dragging the capstone? Yes. Can we see this? Find out. I don't know if it's internet or not. What would Jamie look

for? Look for Zaha Hawass discovery in Abu Sir. How much do you think was lost during the burning of the Library of Alexandria? A lot, of course, everything, right? Everything. And this why what I'm telling you based I have been excavating in Giza Joe for the last 57 years. I know every piece of sand in the site. And I want to tell you one thing also. Okay. I am the only Egyptologist who have an open mind that I review. I always look. I always. Yes, I always look at what the public say. And I will tell you about this later. I will tell you what I found in the pyramid. But I can't but let me finish this story. And after that, I will come back about this later. I will tell you what I found in the pyramid. But I can't but let me finish this story and after that I will come back to tell you how I

look at what people say and I try to okay to investigate this. Okay now, Merer said, I put the stones on a cargo boat. Okay. And we came in the boat to Giza Plateau. Okay, and we came in the boat to Giza Plateau The store the the workman took the stones up to the pyramid. We slept overnight in Giza I got up early in the morning with my workman wanted to Torah. He made many times talking about that then he said I wanted to sign I to bring cover and Turquoise but he said in Sinai, our big boss, his name is Ankaaf. We know from text that the architect who designed the Great Pyramid, who was Khufu's cousin,

his name was Hem Euno. Then actually, it seems now that Hem Euno know, diet and uncuff completed the great pyramid and built the second pyramid of his son, Catherine. Then he said, I'm working in year 27 of Cofus rain. He mentioned that Cof was alive in year 27. How long do you think he reigned for? 28 years. I published an article. I published an article about you can find this article. Why why was the age 23?

23 years. Why was that attributed to them now? It's a good question. This episode is brought to you by better help It's important that you take care of yourself physically and mentally because if you refuse to get help You're not just hurting yourself you're hurting the people around you it can impact your family friends even your colleagues and you know mental health has come a long way despite all our progress though there's still a stigma and a recent survey 26% say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of

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affordable and convenient and if that's still not enough to convince you, maybe this will. Over 5 million people worldwide use BetterHelp, so you're not alone when it comes to seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit BetterHelp.com slash JRE to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash JRE. Egyptologists has a problem when they count the name of the king, because when the Egyptian counted the cattle, they counted the reign of the king.

Sometimes they count the cattle every year, sometimes they counted the cattle every two years. Then we make mistakes. But now we have year 27 of Kofuzrain, and we have on the second boat bit that the Japanese are restoring now. We know when the king died, his son bury him. Then Kufu's son, his name is Jeref Ray, who did not respect his father, and I will tell you why.

He buried his father in year 28. Then we know now for sure that Kufu ruled for 28 years. Now, Miller said something that made me very happy because 25 years ago I wrote an article to say that Memphis was not the capital of Egypt. I said that the king ruled Egypt from the pyramid. If the pyramid is in Abra-Wash, the king ruled Egypt from Abra-Wash. If the pyramid is in Giza, Giza, Abu Sayyid, Saqqara, then Meir said something many people do not believe me when I wrote this article. But Meir said Kufu lived in his palace at Giza. If he lived in a palace at Giza, means with the royal family, the public and the government. And he said that the area that Kufu lived in it in the pyramid called Ankh Kufu in hieroglyphic means the Kufu lives.

This is the name of the city that Kufu lived in it. And he and Miller said we came to Giza in an area in hieroglyphic called Ra Shea. And Ra Shea means literally mouth of the lake. This could be the entrance of Giza Plateau. But what's really strange, he said, it took me almost one day for me and my workmen to up to come to the pyramid. Why? Because Giza entrance was busy. Every stone coming in has to be counted. Every workman has to sign the first letter of his name. And this is why if you go today to the Port of New York, it will take you five hours to enter because it's busy. And this is what happened at Giza Plateau. This papyri, in my opinion, is really one of the most important discoveries that tells us for the first time about building the pyramid. And now we come to the reign of Khufu, 28 years, and now the

stones of the Great Pyramid. I looked everywhere to find out how they counted the stones that people said it's two million and three hundred thousand blocks. I found no evidence. It's only when the Arabs came. You know, all the theories that the new age people say now it came from the Arabs, whom the Arabs came and they entered the pyramid. They said all this nonsense stories. I was the parents. Then I never found any place to tell me how they cut the stones. But now we have evidence that

the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high of solid rock, no stones. In 2010, I brought a team, scientists from every field, and we recounted the stones based on the new evidence, and we found out that the stones of the pyramid are only normal, more than one million. And the average height of the limestone is half a ton to two and a half tons. So the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high carved into solid stone. Yes. And then the other rocks were placed on top of it. No, I can't. I want to come to when you told me about this capstone, because we did not complete the capstone.

Right, but let's start off with this though. The base is 20 feet high and then the estimation was 2,300,000, but you think it's far less than that. Because of the new discovery that we found that the base is made of the solid rock. So before they thought the base was individual stones? Yes. Okay. So now that you know that the base is solid rock, that removes 1,300,000 stones that were

necessary. Yes. Got it. So they carved this base knowing they were going to put a pyramid on top of it. And what about the subterranean chambers? Every king in Egypt is buried underneath the pyramid. Every king except Khufu and his father Sinephram. The only two kings, they are not buried underneath is Khufu and his father. If you look at the one chamber underneath, it was cut and built. If you go down, it's left unfinished.

Nat. Left unfinished in what way? Yusuf A. It was planned to cut it, but they did not complete it. You can see when you go down, the burial chamber is not finished. Why? Nat. Why? Yusuf A. Because I found out in our research, every king is Horus on earth. When the king died, he became the Sun God. Okay? Okay.

Khufu, in year five, he said, I am the Sun God. And he abandoned the construction of the first barrier chamber, and he built his chamber within the pyramid because he's a god. And that's the Queen's chamber, correct? No. The first one. I'm going to come to this chamber later. Okay. And the second evidence that he called his pyramid Akhid Khufu means the horizon of Kufu and the only one in the horizon is the Sun God and the third evidence is something that only occurred at Giza the Sphinx and its temple I found that the Sphinx represent Cephrion, the son of Khufu, giving offering with his two paws to his father, the Sun God, Khufu, who rise and sits in this temple, the first Sun Temple. And this why Khufu's pyramid is unique among the 120 pyramids. And I will tell you what I discovered inside the

pyramid now. Okay, now before I tell you about what I discovered, I have to complete the scene that I told you that I found workman dragging a capstone. You remember you asked me that we stopped on that above the capstone. There is herographic word called chime and chime means white and yellow gold. A second scene I found ladies dancing and they call them the henna and the henna are the dance troupe of the king my interpretation of these two scenes when the pyramid was finished the king asked the workman to put the capstone in the top of the pyramid when they put the capstone in the top of the pyramid caged with gold. The whole country dance and sing because the King became a God. That's what I call the national project of the whole nation. The three millions who lived in Egypt in the time of the whole kingdom, all of them participated in building the pyramid

to make the King as a God. This is your theory. Not a theory. No? It's fact. It is a fact. The pyramid was the national project. That's not what I mean. I mean, it's your theory that the capstone was put on and... It's not a theory. It's based on evidence. I found the scenes. The papyri? No see the papyri is saying something else what I'm looking it's blocks block limestone blocks one scene where come and dragging a capstone with the word chime is this written in limestone blocks is what you're saying this no it's show the workman dragging a stone shows it

where in the stone and that they discovered so it's carved into the stone exactly and the word chime in hieroglyphic above that where's that at it's an opposite i found but is are there photographs online yes in my book i don't i i do i don't go online why i have to go in line i go to my book oh no i understand but for everybody else that doesn't have immediate access to you really did you find them online it's called the Abbas said blocks Abbas said a be as in boy how do you think they got the stones from the King's chamber 500 miles away and put them 120 feet up in the up in the ceiling it's I told you if you come today and see how the workmen move 20 tons of granite, you

understand. Workers today? Yes, today like yesterday, the same workmen. Okay. Right, but we're dealing with a different time, correct? If they're doing it today, they have access to modern machinery, right? No! They don't?

No! It's everything based on the idea of the national project they want to make this for the king understand the physics involved okay moving if you don't eat on block okay 500 miles through the mountain if you don't believe on this I'm not something I don't believe I just want to know inside this one inside okay it's not that I don't believe I want you to explain to me how you think they did it I explained to you from 500 miles away from 50 to 80 ton of blocks this comes through the Nile you can bring all the stones right

we have worries we have mountains right no the queries the granite quarters in us one and we have cutting of the obelisks and cutting of the stones and cut of everything in the site and they brought in when the flood comes in July they bring boats through the flood they bring us out of the stones to get the plateau they plan things for the floods and then they would figure out some sort of a raft system to get them on and then move them that way. Now, if we now do not believe that this cannot be moved by human being, okay? But on the other side, what I can tell you, inside above these blocks, written the names of the gangs who built the pyramid above the King Chamber. written the names of the gangs who built the pyramid above the King's Chamber. One of the names, Friends of Khufu, I did a 3D a few months ago, and we recorded in the five chambers

that has these huge blocks. We found two more names of the gangs, one name called Those Who Are Connected with the Goodest Wadjet, and written year 13 of Kofu's reign on the third chamber. I took Mr. Beast with me two months ago. I took him and I showed him how these blocks, they were written by the workmen before they moved these stones. Workmen before they move this stones. Mm-hmm and in in the fourth Room we have the good gut another name was year 13 of Kofu's reign This is when they move the stones. So I understand what you're saying. So you're saying that they took these stones They waited for the flood season. They got these stones on rafts. They moved them down the river They got them to the site. How did they get them 120 feet in the air? they moved them down the river, they got them to the site. How did they get them 120 feet in the air? You know, again, this is the most important thing. This is the national project.

Oh, I understand. It was very valuable to them. I just wondered what technology was used. No technology. Well, technology is tools. Technology is levers. Whatever they had at the time was their current technology. The huge wooden sludges. Huge wooden sludges. This is the only way that today we move huge stones. This is how my workmen moved 20 tons sarcophagus in a tomb. How far did they move it? They moved it just a few feet away, but we have scenes of how workmen

move 60 tons of statue, how they move with the sledges, and they draw it. Yeah, I've seen those scenes. Yeah, then we have all this type of scene that the Egyptians show that again, this is the national project do you think they wet the ground like what did you think that they did something like that to make the ground more slick so they do it yeah yes and then do they are they using sleds like how do they slidges wooden slidges and then they just we have this is slowly but surely pulled it into position. We have this in the tombs. This wooden is religious. Yeah. But let me take you now to what I began to reveal the secret of Kufu pyramid. Okay. As I told you again, I always listen to what people say and I try to prove them if they're right or not. I was interested in the great

pyramid most of my life because I was an inspector of the pyramid director of I spent most of my life there. Then I closed this pyramid for a year to stop humidity. To stop humidity? Because every person all the breathing and exactly enter and set the pyramid gives about 20 gram of water and this water becomes salt then mechanically I removed the salt you gotta clean the walls exactly and after that I thought how can I make a ventilation system of the pyramid in the King chamber and the Queen chamber? You have this tunnel 20 by 20 centimeter only small tunnel, right?

Then I thought I should clean this tunnel then I can make a ventilation system. I had no idea of what I'm going to find out. Which find out that I hired a German robot and we took the German robot to the King's chamber. We are sitting in the King's chamber with a TV screen and the robot entered in the shaft. We found out that the interior of the pyramid, the stones were interplaced. And this why when the Arabs came to Egypt and they said man first time and time first pyramids. Then we found out that this shaft went outside. Then we put a fan here and the fan suck the air and push it in the tunnel and we made a ventilation system in the pyramid.

So then discovery of these stones what was unusual about the way they were placed? What you say they interlocked? Interblocked. Interblocked? Yes. What do you mean by that? Oh, like fingers. Okay.

So there's like different levels and they all slid in together? They how they put the stones with each other. But now the most important then I took the robot to the second chamber now we know that the tunnel in the fridge timber are open outside open outside I think why we have these tunnels in the second chamber they call it wrong in a Queen chamber right then we took the robot to the northern tunnel of the query chamber after 60 feet

The thought the robot stopped because the tunnel was bending To the left and the German robot could not bend then we took the robot to the south tunnel the robot went for 200 feet, stopped in front of a door with two copper handles. That was the first discovery. Now I began to think, how can I find out what's behind this door? In 2000 to I was chosen by the National Geographic as Explorer in residence were nine explorers with them. With us was Bill Billard, who found Titanic. Each Explorer had a dream. I told them I need you to design a robot for me. I want to find out what's behind this door. And they did make a robot. And they called it pyramid Rover. We took the

pyramid Rover and the robot went in the South Tunnel. And the robot had a drilling on his hand. The robot opened one hole, one centimeter and one millimeter, and sent an optic camera through this hole. We found after 21 centimeter of this door a second one. And the second one has an egg shaped like that as if it's hiding something then after that we went to the northern tunnel that was bending we found out it's a bending north and south for 24 feet and the reason for the bending was to avoid the grand gallery at 200 feet the robot stopped in front of a third door with

two cover handles in the same distance of this one and these doors are very small, right? Very small, 20 by 20 centimeter. Now, I spent most of my life from 2002 until 2024. Last year, I found a team from England. And we worked it last year for three seasons. Number one, I found out above the King's Chamber, a big void, I'm sorry, above the Grand Gallery. This void the size of two trucks. Now, the second void behind the northern tunnel, another small void. Inside this void, we can see hieroglyphic inscriptions. Really? So those are the only hieroglyphics on the Great Pyramid, right? And I can show you the footage in my...

Do you have the footage here? If you can come to my lecture in Houston... What about right here, right now? I can send it to you. Where do you have it? Do you have it on you? In my computer. Where's your computer? In Las Vegas. Oh, well, fuck. But I can send it on you and my computer? Where's your computer in? Las Vegas oh

But I can send it to you before yeah, but I want to show it on the show short in the show I can see this show tomorrow. Okay, you can send it tomorrow. Yes. Okay, we'll splice it in folks then tomorrow I will send it to you. Please do okay now my email now give you Jamie's email. Yeah, give me But you should come on. Are you can you come and introduce me here's email yeah give me but you should cover it and you can you come and introduce me here in this one excuse me can I introduce you in Houston no I cannot why because I'm very busy okay fine if you if I'd known in advance I could find yeah I unfortunately I don't have any free time so I say he's I he's I know Zowie Zahi the now mr. Zahi. Not Zawi. Zahi. Then now, Mr. Hawass. Then now, what we are going to do?

So this is the only pyramid, can I ask you, though? This, this, this hieroglyphics inside this chamber that you've discovered, this, these are the only hieroglyphics in the Great Pyramid, is that correct? No, there is, in the five chambers, I told you. Oh, in the other chambers? I told you, in the five chambers, now we have five names of the Genghisus who built the pyramids and we have years. These are all recent discoveries? Yes! Within how long? How recent? This void as last year, 2024. The hieroglyphic discovery or three months ago. So all this is very... isn't that fascinating that you've been studying the pyramids for so long and you're still finding things? But listen to me what I'm going to do. What are you going to do? You know, there is a friend of mine, his name is Leslie Greif. Leslie

is from Hollywood. He did with me many live TV shows, and he did with me Ch mummies and Leslie now is working to find a network to come. We need to do this program live. Okay. I want to show the whole world what I discovered inside the pyramid that we are not hiding anything. I want to show them the hieroglyphic. Why do you always feel like you're in battle with people? Because they attack me.

Go to the end. I understand that people are not in a battle with people. They you're in battle with people because Attack me go go go They're in the battle with me I understand that I understand that but I'm giving you an opportunity to just lay things out you Don't have to argue with people that aren't here You know fuck those people. I'm not argue. I'm not saying telling the people I just I'm just fascinated by the discovery itself. Okay, then what does it look like these hieroglyphs? Did you I know you can read higher glyphs that science you can read that stuff Yes, but we can the signs are not clear. It's not clear No, we need to do more investigation in September

Is it a difficulty in seeing inside there because you know because when the Egyptian right? inside because when the Egyptian write inside the five chambers, for example, they don't write hieroglyphic. They write a cursive hieroglyphic. It's called the hieratic. And this hieratic show, it's very difficult to read from outside. What does that look like? It's a cursive of the hieroglyphic. Let me see what that looks like. That's fascinating. That's no, this is hieroglyphic. This is hieroglyphic. That's hieratic. We need to talk about hieratic. On the right hand side. Exactly. Look at the one on the right, this is hieratic. Okay. Then it's very difficult. It's so beautiful. Yeah. What a beautiful language. Like the way it's written, it looks like art. Then, Joe, what

we're going to do before the end of this year, we are going to show what's inside the five, this void's life. Can you pick that up, Jamie? These symbols that look like, like make that larger, please. These symbols to the far left that were right below Jamie's cursor, right there, like what are those supposed to be? They are signs. But what does it mean look this it looks like a device the one down means sish for a determined of a scribe what is the

one that his cursor that this is like a stop sign it's for a scribe a scribe yeah what does it mean me scribe it means a scribe sish. What does it mean? Scribe. It means a scribe. Sish. Okay, I understand. So, and then the other one on the hieratic, that's the cursive version of that. No, I don't, I'm not that expert in hieratic. Okay. Because hieratic is very cursive. I understand, but I think this is showing that, right? I know, but we, if you look at the signs in the five chambers that I will send it to you tomorrow It's very difficult to read but you can see they are Hieratic cursive signs got it, but the most important that we are going to show this life. Oh Wow, okay. So people don't even know and you're gonna show all this stuff live. We will do it life, but this the other thing

We have another team called scan pyramids team They are scientists from Japan France and Egypt. I am the scientific director who really They should if they discover something this they come to me. I have to Discuss it with them. And they found, you know, the pyramid. You have the entrance that the people use now is the entrance that the Arabs open. That's in the north face, correct?

Exactly. Above that is the mini chamber. The team are using a very sophisticated techniques like ultrasound, infrared. With these techniques, you do not need any more to drill. You can really see what's behind the door. And this is really what I'm using right now. Then they came to me and they said behind the main entrance of the pyramid, there is a corridor. And they showed to me this corridor clear in the five techniques that they're using. But I told them why I have to see it.

Let's go up there. We went up there and they sent an an optic camera through the stones and they found I could look at the corridor 30 feet long, eight feet wide, topped with chivalry shape. I think you can see that in the internet, the corridor behind the main entrance of the pyramid. Can you get it? It's in the internet, I'm sure. This void above the Grand Gallery? The size of two trucks. What do you think that is? I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I found. And have this was a great pyramid. I did more work on the third pyramid was the same techniques and the second pyramid. This is the void. Okay. Can you see it? Wow,

that's incredible. And I think and bring the other big void above the grand gallery. I think you'll see it also. So find the void above the Grand Gallery. I think you'll see it also. So find the void above the Grand Gallery Jamie. So this it's two trucks. The size of two. Size of two semi trucks. And do you have any idea like what the inside. I will tell you about my theory. Please do. Ah. I think it's here. So that's the void. Yeah.

Now. And it's in that direction, so it's at a slope? It's above the Grand Gallery. That's it. That's it. Yeah. The Scan Pyramid Project. Now, I tell you my theory.

Please do. We have a story written in hieroglyphic, but not at the time of Khufu. It's after Khufu. The story it's written in a papyri is called Khufu and the Magician. It says that Khufu was staying in his palace, and he was very upset. He was not happy. And his son came to him, Your Majesty, why are you unhappy? He said, I'm searching for the secret of the Gattoth, the God of wisdom. Then I can design my burial chamber in the pyramid. Then his son told him I know a magician his name is Judy

He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back And he knows the secret of the guttoth the girl wisdom He knows how to cut the head of a man off and put it back. But is the guy still alive? Is that what he's saying? No, I is what the son is telling his father. I understand that. That Jiddi can do that. A lot of people can cut a guy's head off. But listen to the story. This is the story. Okay. Then the king told his son, bring this to me. Okay. They describe him as 100 years old and he drink one-ba. Jiddi came in front of the king. And Kufu told him, I heard that you can cut

the head of a man off. He said, yes, your majesty. He said, do it. He said, Jiddi said, I cannot do it to the human being. He said, okay, I will bring you a prisoner. Jiddi said, a prisoner is a human being. Then he told, he brought him a goose. He took the head of the goose up in front of everyone, and the head came back, and the goose was running in front of everyone. That's written in the

story. Then the king... Nat. Do you believe that? Yusuf. I come back to what's believed that now. Okay. And the king told him, I want to know the secret of the god Toth to design my burial chamber. He told him that the this secret will not be in your hand. It will be in the hand of another people who rule Egypt. Kufu was very upset. So he wouldn't give him the secret because that secret won't just be in your hands, it'll get into other people's hands. Then the king was unhappy. He told them, don't worry, your

majesty, because you will rule and your sons and your grandson. Now, about magic. Do you believe in religion or not? Yeah. Okay. Do you know about Judaism? Sure. When God told Moses, when Moses met God and God told him to go to Egypt to meet the Pharaoh, And God told him, remember, the Pharaohs are highly in magic. They will beat you. Then God taught Moses how to be more in magic than the Pharaoh. And you remember when he hit the stick, and the stick became a snake, I think, and Moses brought more snakes to swollen what the Pharaoh did. Then we know from books, from Judaism from the beginning, that the ancient Egyptians were really highly in magic. Then we can believe... Do you think that that magic might have had something to do with how they constructed the pyramids? No? No. But if you believe that they had enough magic to take a goose's head and put

it back on and still alive, that's magic. Yeah. Wouldn't they use that magic for other things? But we have. But if you believe in magic. I do, of course. You do. You do believe in magic.

Yeah. So you believe that someone could take someone's head off, put it back on. It's written. Okay, then it must be true. Yeah. All right. Yeah. What is this?

Someone's gonna kill a dove? It's a magic trick. It can decapitate birds and stuff. Oh, okay. I was just reading it. Apparently in the trick that he did it, he put the head on the other side of the room and made him come back together. He did it to a calf and a different animal. So now what really I want to tell you now, that person's magic too. Now, what I want to tell you now that person's magic to now can make us what what I want to show you that I'm not a person. What do you think magic is magic is magic. What do you mean? Well, how does it work? I have no idea. What do you mean by how it works? Well, I mean, how does someone do something like that? I have

no idea. We have to go back. We have to go back. We have to go back and you to five for us as a 600 years ago. And do you think a lot of this information is what was lost in the burning of the Library of Alexandria? Of course, because this is some of it. But still, unbelievably detailed. But still also, you know, because I will tell you why would not have any evidence about Kufu, temples and things like that, because what happened? The ancient Egyptians believed that a pharaoh should be a male. A pharaoh cannot be a female. Anyone who changed the religious belief, they hit him. Hatshepsut, when she became a pharaoh, they hit her, and they destroyed her monuments.

Khufu, when he changed his cult to be a sun god, in the first intermediate period, they destroyed his monuments, the temples, the statues. The only statute of that king was found in upper Egypt, not at Giza. Even in the temple of his sons, there were 23 statues. They smashed the statues. Smashing was a sign of revenge. Now, do you have any question about Kofu pyramid before I switch to the things? Well, I'm fascinated by a lot of aspects of Kufu's pyramid. Well, one of the big ones that's come up very recently that I'm sure you're aware of is these satellite radar, was it called tomography?

What is it called tomographic? Where is it called? Tomographic? Where they think that there's these pillars underneath the structure. Okay. I investigated this. First of all, these two scholars from Italy, they have never been in Egypt. They have never worked in the pyramids before. Right. They're using satellite information. Number two, they published their article in a journal. This journal do not send their article to the freeze. You pay a fee to publish the article in your responsibility. Okay. Number three, I am not a scientist. I took this techniques that they used and I give it to expertise. And they said this

techniques cannot show underneath a solid rock of almost 600 feet down no way why can't they they said this increase cannot show that but these scientists are saying they can do you know about the Osiris shaft how they've got a I just covered it you did right yes you know that they use this tomographic no no I am the one who found it this no I know I understand you found it but they also discovered it should they show that it exists using the same technique no no this is wrong this is not true at all I can tell you how I found that tell you how can I not saying that you didn't find it it's under the paper signature aperture radar

Doppler tomography by Philippe O'Bondie and if you scroll down Jamie you'll see an image and this image is Of the Osiris shaft which shows that they got an accurate depiction of that from space That's not from Sal. It's not true. It's not true. So what are you saying that they're lying? They're lying here. They're completely lying. But if they're showing using these techniques, things that we know that you discovered that absolutely exist now, they this techniques, as I told you, scientists said that this techniques cannot show 600 feet under the pyramid the Ozari shaft that they found was only 50 feet right and showing at least for 50 feet that this is accurate

What makes you believe those scientists rather than these guys from Italy because these that's because the scientists are scientists Well, these are scientists as well. They are they are not showing their techniques carefully. They have not. What do you mean? They're not showing their take care. Take the techniques that they said and show it to any scientists. No one no one can tell you this is accurate. I thought I asked it every every person who knows about radar, ultrasound, all the people work with me, the scan pyramid project, they say this is bullshit. It cannot happen at all. Now, tell me.

So you're telling me that these scientists that are proclaiming the capabilities of these satellite tomography devices that are saying that they can see kilometers into the ground with this does not true. I did. Are you sure I did? Do you understand the technology? No, I don't. Not me.

But I asked scientists who are in this field. Have you talked to these scientists that are saying that they have these discoveries? I sent I made a press release. But did you talk to them? I did not. Why not? Because they did not talk to me. How can I find them?

Would you be willing to talk to them? Of course I am. Yes, do. I'll connect you to them. I'm just interested if new technology becomes available and they figure out a way to look into the ground and you discover things, especially if they discover the Osiris shaft and it Turns to actually discover the other shaft again you discovered it, but they use their Technology to show an accurate depiction of the interior of the Osiris shaft

That was it Joe that was that is that is shot is that true that no no not those that is that we showed That was that the Osiris shaft is known to everyone right it can be seen by anyone they turn their equipment on the oziris shaft it shows the actual interior maybe I don't know but this is 50 feet but they took about 600 feet I understand but if it can go 50 feet why can't it go 600 feet now again I'm not a scientist. Right. So why are you dismissing it though? I gave what they published to a scientist and they said this is not true. But scientists are wrong all the time, particularly ones that are biased. Correct? Then what I did, I made a press release explaining my point.

And I said my work of the second pyramid, that the base of the pyramid is 28 feet of solid rock. And there is no way that anything can be happened in the solid rock. And I explained. I think what they're saying is it's underneath the solid rock, correct? Let me finish and I said your techniques that you published in this magazine is not refreed by scientists. You just published it.

And number three, the team that working in Giza with all these new techniques, they said this is wrong they and I and they know team that's working in Giza with all these techniques what do you mean we have the scan pyramid team right they're working but you understand this is different technology I understand but they know about this technology but have they used this technology this technology cannot work cannot show 600 feet under the pyramid at all this what they said and this why if the Italians were confident they could contact me and the and the pyramid expert that anyone should well we'll make sure that happens

but listen if the the stone is 20 feet thick the solid stone at the base that's correct, right and You said Osiris shaft is 50 feet. That means it can see past 20 feet right but how can I see through the stone and see? What they're showing but the other side is You know, that is how it's not as a was that a shaft is open. It's not covered to see. You can go and you see the Ozair shaft down. Everyone can see it. But the interior is not open. But you can see the interior. But you can't see it to the exact dimensions the way these tomographic images show, right?

If they're using this technology to go 50 feet I am not a scientist I understand so but why is my question all the expertise why would you dismiss it if you haven't looked under there I because I told you it is not me who can dismiss this what does it say Jimmy is the link to the art, the original article I believe. There's their names. The very first sentence says that due to the more penetrating action of electromagnetic waves inside solid bodies, the capability to observe these distributed targets is precluded and then they had to come up with an experimental, says experimental results are estimated by processing the SAR images into something else. So I think

that's the disconnect I'm hearing. Yeah, I don't understand the technology, but my question is, we know how spectacular the pyramids are. We know how spectacular just the base of it, the fact that it's carved into solid rock why would you not think that maybe other spectacular things exist I am not I told you I am not this type knows about the science I consulted the team the top in the world from Japan France and Asia who are these people they are the scanam pyramid team. Okay, the Scam pyramid. Yeah. The ones that found the chamber above. Exactly. And they are working with me. And we found many other things in the second pyramid and the third

pyramid. And we published this. We just published an article last week. I understand, using different techniques, right? Then what I am saying saying if this techniques that these two Italians are correct the only people who really can tell you it's correct or not are the scan pyramid people not me but the scan pyramid people aren't they using different technology but they know about technology they are the top scientists in the world I have to believe them not that two Italians yeah and if the Italians are really correct they could come to talk to us not me well to talk to me and others I will definitely try to connect you with those people because I know that Graham Hancock and Brian Mara rescue have been in contact

with those people and they're they're open-minded about it. They don't know what's going on down there, but these images are repeated over and over and over again. Fine. But they- Fascinating. Either way. Okay.

The whole- one of the fascinating things about Egypt to me is the fact that it's not just so much more advanced in terms of construction than anywhere else in the world, but that it's still to this day like nothing even close has ever been even attempted to this day. What do you think was going on back then as far as their capabilities and their understanding that led them to do something so spectacular that other people again thousand five hundred years again the belief of the afterlife built Egypt right but they also had to have if you come understanding if you come engineering and construction and design to do this belief of the afterlife to build the pyramid as I

told you this was a national project of no I understand the national now but they have no you can talk about this pyramid if it exists alone when you come to Egypt and you go through time you will see that everything gradually there is no gap that you can what do you mean by that there is no gap for anyone to think something different than the belief of the Egyptians well I don't think anybody's saying that oh yeah maybe some people are maybe some people do but I mean it's all the Egyptians obviously was in Egypt I mean it's the Egyptians that made it yes pretty obvious that just seems obvious.

Then if you believe it, I'm happy. I'm happy to hear this. Yeah. Well, I just think whenever people say it's aliens or like, where's the proof of that? Exactly. Also, they built a lot of spectacular things like no ifs, ands or buts, just just the statues, just the faces of the pharaohs with incredible symmetry. That's why I worked really I won since you are interested in Egypt. I we would like to invite you to come I want to come I just it's for me. We are willing to invite you. I want to go Tell me when okay, and I will arrange everything. Okay, but now I want to come to the Sphinx also Okay, can we talk about this? Yes, please now, you know when I was young I Was met by the Edgar Cayce

Son the psychic guy hearing case. Yeah, and here in case he was the son of Edgar case. I was young I really don't know what this case he had but when they when he came to Egypt and talked about his father, you know about Kedker Kessler. Yeah. OK, then it is a vision that there was a chamber underneath the Sphinx's paw. Underneath the right paw of the Sphinx, there is a chamber. And he envisioned that, correct?

Yes. And this is why I'm going to Virginia Beach, to give a talk. One of the cities in my tour now is Virginia Beach. Why? Because when people began to tell me there is something inside the Sphinx, I really, as I told you, I have an open mind.

And I did search. I found inside the Sphinx four tunnels one behind the steeler they call it dreamy steeler between the two balls of the Sphinx and the second one behind the head in the top right there's actually a door in the top of the head now. No, no, no, just a lid. Just a tunnel. A tunnel. Twenty-five feet. But isn't it closed off though? No, yeah, it's closed.

Yeah, there's like a door on the top of it. It's not a door, no. A lid? It's just a tunnel. Okay, but it's closed off. You can't go up to the Sphinx. That's why we have to cover it because it will take rubbish and guts. Well, that's the top.

That's what I'm talking about. Isn't that the top of it? Is this the thing? Yes, that's it. Okay, that's a lid, right? Yeah, we covered it. Okay. Yeah. But we covered it to protect it from the sand. But it's not a door. Okay. The third tunnel that I found in the back. Now Edgar Cayce, he had this vision that there was some Hall of Information I know but I'm going to come to this now

but I'm talking to you about the tunnels now and the third one is in the tail the fourth one was opened in 1927 by a French is named Monsieur Berets, and I do have photos of workmen inside these things. We found these four tunnels of pottery in situ to prove that these tunnels were opened on Dynasty 25, 500 BC as in the late period when the Egyptians saw the things, they thought there is something hidden underneath and and they dug, and they found nothing. Now, we come to the Edgar Cayce and what people believe, because we had John Antony West, and we had many New Age people who believe there is something hidden underneath the Sphinx. And they used to tell me, we need your permission. To what? To drill. I said, how can I let someone who's not an archaeologist, who's not a scientist,

to drill? No way! But recently, I found out the rise of the water table in front of the Sphinx. And I was really afraid that the water could damage the Sphinx. Then I brought a team from Cairo University, and we did drill 30 to 35 feet underneath the Sphinx, everywhere. And I do have photos of everywhere under the things okay. The Sphinx is a solid rock or a living rock and there is nothing underneath So there's no tunnels no times this is exactly. Okay. I told you what what do you think about Robert shock and his theory about the temple and the erosion outside of the Sphinx that it's water erosion when Chuck Said that Okay about the temple and the erosion outside of the Sphinx, that it's water erosion. When Chuck said that, okay, we brought through the American Research Center a scientist from

Louisville University. I don't remember his name now. And we gave him what Robert the shock, you know what Robert shock said it's not a theory. It's a theory of a new age guy who talked about this before and John and tenuous brought I don't remember. Yeah, then we gave we gave this guy from Louisville University. He was an Indian American who really studied. He came to the Sphinx and he worked with us for a season. And he came and we published many articles that the erosion that you see outside and inside the Sphinx is from wind and not from water. Now, what shock want to say that this is dated back 15,000 years ago? I agree. Okay, if I came here and I dug the Sphinx, I will leave something. Then what I did, we dug an area northeast of the Sphinx. I found level Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom,

New Kingdom, Roman, nothing underneath. In this New Age, people say that the head of the Sphinx is very small compared to the body. Yes. Why? If you take all the casing stones away from the Sphinx you'll find exactly here The Sphinx and now this and Another part like this in between there is a hollow remember. I told you that Giza plateau is you that Giza plateau is divided to three levels. Level one and two is very bad stones, can be seen to the chest of the Sphinx. Level three, they carved with the head from level three. Then when the Egyptian carved with the head to represent the King Kephren with the Cobra the Royal head remus they began to make a lion body then what they did they filled this hollow between the two things pieces with stones and they covered the whole body

of the things with stones and they did the modeling of the lion body on the covering stones and this why the head is very small compared to the body. So you think the head was made first and then the body was made later. Exactly. If that's the case, why is the body so much more eroded than the head? I told you the body it is a part of the bad stones. Bad stones. So the top one is the head.

The porous stones. Exactly. So there's a different density to the stones. That's why the stone in the Sphinx's head is intact and the body is softer. It's level three. So it's a different kind of stone. Exactly. Of the body.

And this why the Egyptian... Because there's layers to it all and some of the layers are more dense. The Egyptians wanted to make a lion body they couldn't the only way is to cover the body of stones and do the modeling of the lion body on the covering stones. Can we take two minutes rest? Yeah sure, you want to take a break? Yes, to go to this bathroom. Okay, go to the bathroom. You know where it is? Yes. Just go outside, take a left. We're back. The Sphinx. Let's pick up where we left off. So you were saying that these other experts that looked at it didn't agree that it was water erosion and said that they think that it was wind.

So what John Anthony West and what Graham Hancock and what Robert Shock and all these different people are trying to allude to is that perhaps there was even older stuff that was in Egypt and that the things that you're seeing that are 2500 BC, those are even more recent than the older stuff. Tell me about Zeptepe. What's Zeptepe? What's this? You've never heard about...

Have you heard about... You know about the King's List, right? The old King's List that goes back 30,000 whatever years. Who said that? You've never seen it? It's not in hieroglyphs this is not true no no this is a speculation from people who knows nothing about history there is nothing king list dated back 30 something years ago at all so why did they say in that because

they don't know a speculation give me one evidence of that the only the first the first king list Dated back to dynasty five only I was reading that people were saying that it was myth That the the king's list even though there is like some hieroglyphics of ancient kings that these are just mythical This is not true. There is no at all a name that you told me. I never heard of this name. I am an Egyptologist working in Egypt for the last 57 years. I never heard of this king list at all. Never? Never. And no. You never even heard of it? Why I have to hear about it? because it's not true. I don't want to waste my time in things like this. I am a person, give me a fact. So tell me what is this? So in ancient Egyptian, Zeptepi refers to the first time or the first occasion.

This is an AI. It refers to a mythical golden age of Egypt where gods lived on earth and civilization was in its infancy. This period is often associated with the beginning of creation and the establishment of societal structures have you never heard of that before no and this is not true what do you mean it's not true I mean this is I'm getting this off it never happened at all I'm not saying it happened I'm just saying this is something that's referred to it's never. I never heard about it. It is not true. It does not exist. Even if it doesn't exist, the myth of it. I don't listen to who I do. I have to go to a myth of people. But stories, if you go to Wikipedia, I don't care about Wikipedia. I understand. I care about what I see in my eyes as an archaeologist or a

philologist. In all the myths, the world was said to emerge from an infinite lifeless sea when the sea when the sun rose for the first time in a distant period known as Zeptepe, the first occasion. Different myths attributed to the creation of different gods. The set of eight primordial deities called Ogdoed, the contemplative deity Ptah, and the mysterious transcendent God Amun. While describing these difference, cosmologies completed or competed to some extent in other ways they were complementary in different aspects of Egyptian understanding of creation. It's the Egyptian creation myth. Fine. You've never heard of that? Never heard of that. That seems strange that you didn't hear about that. Listen, I've heard

of it before. Fine. You can hear about it. I mean, I just found it. It's a new age. It's new age. Yes. Listen to me. I know. And any Egyptologist who study Egyptology in the States here, you have universities in UCLA and you have Berkeley and you have John Hopkins and you have every there is no every Egyptologist here study languages and archaeology. No one can answer what you're talking about. This is whole lesion nation. I'm sorry. This is not true. It's a speculation from people but never in Egypt. We know the prehistory of Egypt. We know the pre dynastic of Egypt. We know the beginning of civilization. We know every there is no gap in anything that can let some things like that. And this why I never heard of it. And

I don't want to hear about it. You don't want to hear about it. No. Why? Because there is no evidence. I am a scientist. I believe on what's written in front of me. And I believe of a scene that I can see. But I don't believe on theories like this Tell me where this found and where it is and who published it. What is a scientist who published it? What is a religious who talked about it? I'd like to know that's why I'm asking you I never heard of it Well, I'm shocked that you haven't at least heard of it and dismissed it haven't at least heard of it and dismissed it. I think it's a part of the creation myth. I know but it's not true. I received many theories every day. My mind Joe now is really cannot stand all these theories, all of it. It's too much for me. It's too much for me. Got it See if you find anything on that Jamie where where that myth came from

Yeah, is it a bouffal thing? Who's both are both far is not a scientist no, I'm just yeah, I know I said those people Yani Yeah, when someone came to you was a theory he has to have a Geo-Tourism background. He has to write a scientific article We write all what we discover we write articles about them for people to read and criticize and give us opinion But I can go to theories like this that understand that has no base what do you base the dates on do you base it on carbon isotope no we don't we based dating on the evidence that we discover right but like it is based on carbon right no I don't believe in carbon date 14 at all you don't know

why not with date 14 never given accurate dating. And this why I believe, you know, when you discover something, if you discover a symmetry, right, there is two type of datings. One called absolute dating means that in this symmetry, you have a name of a king and a date mean this is absolute But if you discover another symmetry and has no dates then the best thing that we do Is to find the artifacts In this symmetry and try to compare it with other Dated symmetry and you give a date for this but you don't believe in carbon

Carbon dot 14 at all and it's not working in Egypt until today. I Have been excavate. I'm excavating also in the Well of the Kings where I discovered Major important things that you can talk about it. So if you're going back, but I know I used I used radar If you're going back, but I used I used radar in all my excavation. What do you mean? And I never had a result by radar and carbon date 14. We people use it when there is no date. But wait a minute, you use radar to date things? How?

No, I use radar to discover things. Right. But what do you use to date them? I dated that I told you two methods of dating. Right. But what do you use to date them? A date that I told you, two methods of dating. Most of the dating that for me now in Duxor is based on evidence. Like I discovered the Golden City. It's a major, big, large cemetery, large settlement, a city. And you know, this city was chosen the most important discovery in the world of year 2021 because this is the first time that we have a big, large city to tell us about the people who made this civilization.

So how do you know how old the city is? Exactly. In the city, we discovered the names everywhere of King Amenhotep III, who was the father of Eknathun. Inside the city, we found many statues of his queen, Queen T. We found inscriptions about dried meat stored to celebrate the third set festival of Amin Khattab III. We found nine royal workshops in the city. Then the city tells us about the golden age of that king. It is dated by pottery by

Hieroglyphical description But I'm curious as to why you're skeptical about carbon dating because I think I know generally accepted as I know Within a certain frame it is but I never used it and many people Very rare to use the Eshep because in Egypt mainly we have absolute chronology. We have absolute dating based on inscriptions. Right, but I thought it was used in Egypt like to measure wood that was in mortar to date the Great Pyramid to 2500 BC. No, that was an experiment to leave the pyramid I think was about 2009 and it

is not is not working but I didn't see the result you haven't seen a result on carbon testing of the mortar of the Great Pyramid This mortar like if you take a piece of stone from the pyramid and you try to the Kerber 14 this piece of stone could be thousand years in the quarry. It cannot date the pyramid. How can you hold on? Hold on. You don't date stone. I'm saying if you date mortar, okay, how can you how can you say accurately that this mortar is dated to the same time of building the better? Well, you can actually that's the the argument is that there is probably repairs done, right? And so the pyramid yes, no of great great pyramid.

There is no there's no evidence of any of the nations no restoration. No, never, never any accurate evidence that the pyramid was restored in any period of the Egyptian history. There is restoration that goes on even now though on the Sphinx, correct? I did make ten years of restoration on the Sphinx. It's me who did the restoration of the Sphinx for ten years. Why did you decide to do that because the Sphinx when I was when I left I? Was studying in the States I came to take my doctorate from University, Pennsylvania from 1980

from 80 to 87 some architect and Archaeologist were really stupid. They began to restore the Sphinx, and they took all the casing stones of the Sphinx out, and they put modern stones, and they used cement. You cannot use cement in the restoration. You can use cement in building a house.

Yeah, that's not even restoration. That's use cement and building a house. Yeah, that's not even restoration. That's a new creation. When I came, I stopped this restoration. Okay. And few because the this restoration damaged completely the proportions of the Sphinx. It brings to you another Sphinx. ugly. Yeah, few months later. There was a stone was restored in the in the shoulder of the Sphinx and it fell down in February. It was raining and always people use the Sphinx for politics. The Sphinx? For politics? Yeah, if they want. I tell you, it happened the first time in the pharaonic period. You know, the area beside the Sphinx was called the Valley of Gazelles. And the princess of the New Kingdom used to come to hunt wild animals in the valley and

Come towards the Sphinx and this is story that I'm telling you is written in a granite Stele is called the dreamy stele Located now between the two paws of the Sphinx in the stele it say that thought wasose IV was a prince, and he came to have a nap beside the sphinx. And the sphinx came to him in dream and told him, My son, if you remove the sand away, I will make you the king of Egypt. Then he removed the sand, and he came to a temple.

He found a door. What year was this? This is one three thousand years ago. Exactly. So the Sphinx was constructed long before that. And that had been covered in sand. Yes, completely. This is why Herodotus, the father of the history history when he came to Egypt in the middle of the 5th century BC he never talked about the things

completely under the sand then what took was the force came he took the sand away and he found that the old kingdom casing Brooks are falling down. He put them back and he went to the Sphinx nearby, he took this granite stele as a door and he wrote this story in it. But we found there is something politics in that story. He killed his elder brother who was supposed to be the king of Egypt and he wrote this story to tell the Egyptian that the God Hor in our hit Horus of the horizon. It shows me to be the king of Egypt They will forgive the crime that he did with that stone it fell down in 1988 a

big fight happened between the head of antiquities and the minutes of culture ended by firing their antiquities. It's politics. I stayed 10 years. When we were asked me about the best thing that I did in my life, I say two things. Number one, that I restored the Sphinx. I brought the proportion of the Sphinx back, and I restored the oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Steppe pyramid. It was falling down. In 14 years, I made major important conservation and restoration. And I tell people, why do I have to fight all the time about the age of the pyramid? We have to fight. We have to cooperate, all of us, to restore this monuments. And the most important thing is for me always is conservation.

And I dedicate most of my life not only to the excavation but to conservation What do you think the arguments are that pre-date the that try to push the date back of? The construction of the pyramids I know I heard of this You've never heard of this. No, it's only new. It's a theories right from the new age But I know I saw a debate with you. I saw a debate with you and Graham Hancock and there was another that was no hold on. The other archaeologist was saying if you're saying that something happened 10,000 years ago, where is the evidence of any civilization from 10,000 years ago? Exactly. But then you found go back Lee Tepe. So go back Lee Tepe was buried over 11,000 years ago. That's not true.

I never heard about this. What do you mean it's not true? It's not true what I told you. What is not true? It never happened. Gobekli Tepe? We never discovered this at all. Wait a minute.

Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey. Oh, in Turkey. Yes. Gobekli Tepe is in Turkey and it's more than 11,000 years old. It's very complex stone structures. Fine. But this was the evidence we are told. Hold on. This is the evidence in the argument. The argument was there was

no evidence of an ancient civilization from ten thousand plus years ago. This is before the discovery of go back Lee Tepe go back Lee Tepe gets discovered known to be more than eleven thousand years ago. That changes everything. Now we know. Yes it does. That's the now. Hold on. Because now we know there was an advanced civilization capable of a spectacular construction 11,000 plus years ago. This is what listen look at the archaeologist in In Turkey or in any civilization, okay

They they never talk about All civilization that's not true. Go back Lee Tepe is universally accepted as being more than 11,000 years. I am talking now about Egypt. I'm not. No, I understand. But the argument was that there was never any ancient civilization capable of spectacular construction 10,000 years ago that now that they showed go back Lee teppi is more than 11,000 years old They know for sure that's not true. Okay, but now I'm talking about the pyramid sufficient I have the evidence that it in We found everything about that. We know the dating. Mm-hmm

I'm and I give you hundreds of evidence that this pyramid built by Kofu. No, I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm not saying it wasn't. What I'm saying is any civilization older than we know older we have no in the same spot. We have all we have. We have no evidence. So how does ancient Egypt emerge? We have how does it emerge and go from zero to pyramids? We have, can you listen to me? We have prehistoric Egypt and we have the old stone age, Middle Stone Age, Neolithic, when the Egyptians began to know about agriculture and they began to live together in communities. Then after that we came to the pre-dynastic. When a king called Narmer in dynasty zero, he began to make unification of the upper and lower Egypt until one king called Mina or Horah who united completely and what year was this

this is war was three thousand BC five thousand years ago in a place called Abidus they built huge mud brick tombs who huge for mud break no stones and this tombs are created in a site called a bite you know what's really fascinating about this is that 500 years you think about that how different just modern civilization was 500 years ago 500 years ago we had almost none of the inventions we have today we had no internal combustion engine you know no hardened steel with none of the inventions we have today. We had no internal combustion engine, you know, no hardened steel, none of the things that we have. And now look what we have with electronics. Now imagine what the Egyptians were able to do in 500 years

on a different, in a different way in construction with stone. That their advancements weren't like our advancements, but their advancements were equally spectacular just in a different way. Okay. Now I come back to the mud brick structure. This is in dynasty one and two on dynasty three came a king called Zoser. He had a genius architect. His name is Imhotep. I am searching. Did you hear about Imhotep before? Yes. Okay. I'm searching for his tomb. Only two weeks ago, before I came, I made a major important discovery in Egypt. I found a tomb of a son of a king inside incredible statues of Zoser and his father and his queens and his children. Where's this tomb in the shadow of the step pyramid in the shadow of those

and this really made me because I have been searching for the tomb of him hot most of my life. But the area that they found this tomb, it was under houses, modern houses. Oh, wow. The workmen who work in the site, 100 years ago, they built houses in the site, but they never excavated what's underneath the houses. Wow. So modern houses underneath the ancient tomb. Six months ago, we gave houses to this people in another area and we demolished this house and we found underneath major discoveries. This discovery will be in today's show this week. Now I am sure now that in hot tips tomb is in this area. Wow. Now I can bet what technology can use to discover like you know, around caverns and chambers and all what I do is

digging. That's it. That's it. What if these Italian guys are onto something you can find more stuff. I want you to come to see what I do and what I discovered. I want to. I want to. I want to talk to the Italians too. And what I discovered I can show it to you. Please do. Jamie Zeptapi, do you find anything about that? About that? Where the origins of that? Maybe a book from 1960 and I couldn't figure out how he got there. It's probably a long sludge through information, try to get to the root of it. But can we continue with how it happened until you have the pyramids? Sure. Then Imhotep came and he built the same mastaba.

Mastaba in Arabic means a bench. He built the construction in mud brick of stone for the first time. And he added more section to the first one. And he put above that five bastabas. It's called the step pyramid. In the pyramid text, they say that the step pyramid yeah and the pyramid that's the first one in the pyramid text they say that the step pyramid is a stairs that the king is buried underneath to go to heaven and this one was how many years before the Great Pyramid it saw almost almost 700 years so obviously it's not nearly sophisticated as the Great Pyramid. So in 700 years, they just got way better. Listen, now on that is the three. There is another pyramid was found and only I found recently that they did not excavate it completely. I found a pyramid which is the end of dynasty three of a king called Hony. Then now we came to see him. His name is horny. Hony, horny,

horny. Okay. It's you and I. Okay. Then we come to dynasty four, Sinephro. Sinephro had a genius architect. His name was Nefer Ma'at. Then he started. Tons of good names for a genius. Yeah, he started to build a step pyramid like this in a site called the Maidoum. But for a reason we do not know, he left it unfinished. And he went to a place called the shore. He built the

pyramid was a huge angle and he changed the angle. It became bent and he built another pyramid. If you look at the other pyramid of the father of Kofu, it exactly equal to the Great Pyramid. This is the first true pyramid, but people never go to the shore to look at this pyramid. They will always look at Kufu. Then you have in dynasty four, the pyramids were huge because of the quality of the stones. In Tharnastai 5 and 6, there is no good quality of stones. Then the Egyptians made decrees on the volume of the stones and did increase in the volume of the war reliefs. Temples began to be decorated with scenes for the first time. In the Middle Kingdom, another trend, mud brick pyramid, but underneath maze corridors of stones that if you go down, you will lose your way. In the New Kingdom, they built, they came in the top of the Valley of the Kings, a shape of the pyramid,

and they buried all the kings like King Tut and others underneath the pyramid shape. So that's the story. That's the story. All right. But listen, man, it's been fascinating talking to you, and I definitely am going to take you up in your offer. I'm definitely going to go to Egypt. No, now we'll talk. Now we'll talk. We'll talk to Mustafa. Send me that video so we can splice it in of the hieroglyphs that are on the wall. We'll send that, right? I will

send it tomorrow. Okay. But give me, give the email to Greg and Mustafa now. We will do that. And they are the people that will talk to them now To arrange for your trip. Okay, and I will invite you for a good many days. You think I should go ten days at least Jamie. You gotta come You want to do a podcast? Let us do one inside the great pyramid. Yeah, definitely 100% okay, let me echo you though. Oh Yeah definitely. 100%. Okay. Let me echo you though. Oh here's another problem with the idea that these Italians are proposing. Isn't there a water table under the pyramid that's like a million years old? No. There's not water underneath there?

No. This is the Osiris shaft that was full of water. So is that what Mr. Beast was swimming in? Exactly. But where's that water coming from? It's a water table. There is a water table. This shaft, I came, I brought a company and we did suck all the water out until I found underneath a sarcophagus and four pillars. Oh, wow. And this is the symbolic burial of the god Osiris. Because Giza Plateau was called in the New Kingdom per user nepras tau the house of Osiris Lord of Rasta Rasta means symmetry but literally means the underground tunnels that Osiris is ruling then herodotus when he came he talked

about this water under the pyramid it is in the shaft and this one beast entered inside and Swamming it swimming. Okay, you know I met him because I wanted to convince the younger people that pyramids were built by aliens That's why I took him to three. I don't know. I don't understand the alien thing I I think super advanced culture super advanced I don't understand the alien thing. I think super advanced culture, super advanced civilization. But you know, but you know. And I think the Library of Alexandria burning is probably one of the greatest disasters. I agree. But Joe, many people in America believe that you believe in aliens. When I talk to them that I'm coming to see you.

That I believe in aliens? They do. Well, I'm not opposed to the idea of aliens existing. There's hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe, each with hundreds of billions of stars. The idea that we're uniquely alone. You don't think there's anything out there? Nothing. So you don't believe in ancient civilizations capable of advanced construction?

You don't believe in aliens? You don't believe in carbon dating? I am a scientist. If you believe in something, write an article. Then I can read. But don't give me a theory. But the theory of planets containing intelligent life is that's not true. I have been debating Graham Hancock and John Antony West. And I told them from the beginning beginning your theory will go with the

wind. Right, but we're not talking about that theory. We're talking about aliens being possible. No way! No aliens, just us. This is their national poison. If you believe in God. Us in the whole universe? Only us. If you believe in God, you'll do miracles. The Egyptians believed in the afterlife and they made this great civilization. I'm not saying aliens made it. I'm saying it's very possible there's something else out there in the world. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Goodbye, everybody.

Enjoy. I enjoyed it too. And I'll see you in the video. Bye, everybody.